| 00:00:44 | | Quit J3TC- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:01:48 | | Join Echelon [0] (i=ryan@tinfoilhat.net) |
| 00:02:47 | | Join Sedgewick [0] (n=Sedgewic@host99-233-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 00:03:58 | | Join ddalton [0] (n=Daniel@203-214-76-97.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:04:08 | ddalton | what code is executed when the player is turned on? |
| 00:04:37 | linuxstb | That depends on the player, but normally the code in flash ROM. |
| 00:04:52 | linuxstb | Which may be part of the original firmware, or may be Rockbox... |
| 00:05:18 | ddalton | linuxstd: do you know what source file? |
| 00:05:29 | ddalton | I want to call a function once rockbox has loaded |
| 00:05:40 | preglow | argfgh |
| 00:05:45 | preglow | i can't make this bag of shit work |
| 00:06:23 | linuxstb | ddalton: Are you asking which code in Rockbox is run first? |
| 00:07:02 | ddalton | yes |
| 00:07:15 | ddalton | so what code resumes the playback for example on startup |
| 00:08:29 | linuxstb | The main entry point is main() in apps/main.c |
| 00:08:43 | preglow | i've disabled all memory accesses and all loops, this has to be a really, really cool bug... |
| 00:08:53 | ddalton | ok thanks |
| 00:09:43 | ddalton | linuxstb: do you know how I can check if the alarm was activated? so the player booted because of the alarm not the user? |
| 00:09:56 | linuxstb | stripwax: Did you ever finish your runtime test in diagmode? |
| 00:10:24 | jhMikeS | preglow: don't you just love those one where after you've removed all the code it still crashes? :P |
| 00:10:46 | * | linuxstb normallly then realises he's editing a different source tree to the one he's compiling... |
| 00:11:18 | jhMikeS | :D |
| 00:11:21 | ddalton | so it is called "int main(void)"? |
| 00:11:34 | linuxstb | Yes |
| 00:11:43 | jhMikeS | yes, everything crashes in main() :) |
| 00:11:58 | ddalton | what code is executed when the alarm wakes up the player? |
| 00:12:34 | preglow | that |
| 00:12:41 | preglow | the same startup sequence runs |
| 00:12:54 | preglow | some place in it you'll find a call to alarm code to check if an alarm was what triggered the powerup |
| 00:13:00 | ddalton | so you can't tell if it is the alarm or not? |
| 00:13:01 | jhMikeS | the alarm just turns on the power |
| 00:13:06 | | Join webguest21 [0] (i=50b2489e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-3bc915017f287ae0) |
| 00:13:38 | webguest21 | hello, how can i add date to my main screen, it doenms't show up |
| 00:13:45 | ddalton | jhMikeS: So I can't see if the alarm has woken it up? |
| 00:13:46 | preglow | what the HELL is going on |
| 00:14:24 | linuxstb | webguest21: Do you mean the While Playing Screen (WPS) ? |
| 00:14:25 | jhMikeS | preglow: sourcery |
| 00:14:40 | webguest21 | yea |
| 00:15:03 | jhMikeS | ddalton: I think preglow said you'll find that in the alarm code |
| 00:15:03 | preglow | _NOOOO_ |
| 00:15:13 | preglow | i forgot to test another optimization, and kept it enabled :////////////7 |
| 00:15:16 | ddalton | jhMikeS: ok thanks |
| 00:15:16 | jhMikeS | ddalton: iirc he wrote it |
| 00:15:19 | jepler | hm is there something wrong with the latest svn? I updated (from r15097, nov 13 or so) and ogg playback is skipping quite a bit. the "drive" activity indicator is stuck on |
| 00:15:23 | jepler | (e200) |
| 00:15:33 | linuxstb | webguest21: What have you added to your .wps file, and what device are you running Rockbox on? |
| 00:15:56 | webguest21 | i ruunnig e200.... what u mean added to wps? |
| 00:16:03 | jepler | logf shows that it's in the middle of updating the database, maybe that's the cause? |
| 00:16:26 | preglow | jhMikeS: i didn't write it, but i did port it to ipods |
| 00:16:37 | | Join HellDragon [0] (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
| 00:16:40 | linuxstb | webguest21: You said the date doesn't show, what did you do try try and make it appear? |
| 00:17:29 | webguest21 | i just want to add the date to menu screen , is it possible? |
| 00:17:59 | webguest21 | or it should be added on theme? |
| 00:18:22 | linuxstb | You can add it to the WPS (which is part of a theme), but not to the menu screens. |
| 00:18:45 | preglow | it seems i was right about qmf_synth() being important |
| 00:19:13 | webguest21 | ohhhh ok thanks |
| 00:19:17 | preglow | it doesn't sound quite right in asm, though... |
| 00:20:05 | | Quit webguest21 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 00:20:34 | preglow | jhMikeS: i think i'm about to make my first use of the emac internal shifting feature too |
| 00:20:34 | | Quit japc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:20:35 | | Join webguest14 [0] (i=50b2489e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-ac5dbaf6effb39ee) |
| 00:20:40 | jepler | also I see that there's a change to bootloader/pp-main.c related to Rebuilding Database in OF. Do I re-run sansapatcher to make sure I have the new bootloader and the update to the "nvparams" that it mentions? |
| 00:20:55 | ddalton | jhMikeS: hmmm I can't seem to find wake up code in alarm_menu.c. Had a quick read through the whole file. Who wrote it? |
| 00:21:07 | webguest14 | is it possible to use one theme with other background image? |
| 00:21:09 | preglow | ddalton: exactly what code are you looking for? |
| 00:21:44 | ddalton | preglow: the code that is ran when it wakes up. I want to adjust the volume if the alarm wakes up the player |
| 00:22:25 | preglow | root_menu.c |
| 00:22:32 | preglow | grep for "check_alarm_started" |
| 00:22:48 | Zagor | jepler: yes, you run sansapatcher again to update the bootloader |
| 00:22:56 | amiconn | linuxstb: Do you know what arm version the pnx0101 is? |
| 00:22:59 | preglow | up to that point in the code (and for most code after it), the exact same code is run, no matter if the alarm set off or not |
| 00:23:24 | amiconn | Probably not very important, as it might be impossible to get ape realtime on that one... |
| 00:23:30 | stripwax | webguest14 : - yeah, just load a different background image .... |
| 00:23:48 | linuxstb | amiconn:: No idea, but tools/configure selects arm7tdmicc |
| 00:23:54 | amiconn | ah |
| 00:24:03 | linuxstb | I don't know the speed either... |
| 00:24:07 | amiconn | SO the only non-arm7 atm is the gigabeat |
| 00:24:09 | amiconn | 60MHz |
| 00:24:24 | linuxstb | Ouch... 60MHz and 1MB - not an easy job. |
| 00:24:35 | ddalton | ok I better go |
| 00:24:37 | amiconn | I wonder how to handle different optimisations for the various arm versions... |
| 00:24:41 | webguest14 | stripwax: how i do it?? |
| 00:24:47 | stripwax | menu |
| 00:24:53 | webguest14 | i have e200 |
| 00:24:56 | preglow | ddalton: did you find what you needed? |
| 00:25:05 | webguest14 | i can't do it |
| 00:25:08 | webguest14 | i tried |
| 00:25:26 | amiconn | Looks like the vector add has no effect on arm9 (neither slower nor faster), but quite some speedup on arm7 |
| 00:25:28 | ddalton | thanks for the help but I better look later. Really got to go |
| 00:25:29 | ddalton | bye |
| 00:25:32 | jepler | Zagor: thanks, trying that now |
| 00:25:42 | webguest14 | i can change background only when i changetheme |
| 00:25:46 | amiconn | But for scalarproduct(), the arm7 optimisation would *slow down* arm9 (and higher) |
| 00:25:51 | webguest14 | can someone help please? |
| 00:25:57 | | Quit ddalton ("leaving") |
| 00:26:30 | stripwax | webguest14 - navigate to the background you want (using the File list), hold down the Select button / context menu and pick the "Set As Backdrop" option. Should be easy enough .. |
| 00:26:45 | stripwax | assuming it's a .bmp that is. otherwise... |
| 00:27:06 | linuxstb | amiconn: I still don't understand ARM's versioning system - I know there are different architectures (v4, v5 and v6) with different instruction sets, but then we also have different performance within the same arch... |
| 00:27:07 | stripwax | webguest14 - you looked in the Manual at all? |
| 00:27:39 | rasher | stripwax: which reminds me - the fact that backdrops must be in .rockbox/backdrop (or whatever) is a limitation from the days of config-sector, isn't it? |
| 00:28:00 | | Quit A_M () |
| 00:28:41 | stripwax | rasher - oof, wow, dunno. is that still true? |
| 00:28:45 | webguest14 | ohhh i found it thanks, it in files folder |
| 00:28:52 | amiconn | linuxstb: There's even more to it. T and non-T variants, various optional coprocessors etc etc |
| 00:29:05 | linuxstb | amiconn: Yes, I was simplifying ;) |
| 00:29:07 | rasher | stripwax: The manual still says so, and some guy came in here complaining about it, so I'd guess it is |
| 00:29:28 | stripwax | crikey |
| 00:29:33 | jepler | OK, where do I get the .mi4 files necessary to build sansapatcher? |
| 00:30:05 | linuxstb | amiconn: Maybe it's worth looking at how gcc categorises the processors. Or maybe for now, just use #ifdefs based on the processor - e.g. ARM7TDMI etc |
| 00:30:16 | pixelma | rasher: I think it's still the case and it's also a nice way to just try and return back to normal |
| 00:30:23 | amiconn | Do we have those? |
| 00:30:35 | rasher | pixelma: return back to normal? |
| 00:30:42 | rasher | Ah.. like that |
| 00:30:47 | Zagor | jepler: those are the bootloaders for c200 and e200. so build those first. |
| 00:30:57 | linuxstb | amiconn: No, but they should be easy to add to config.h based on CONFIG_CPU |
| 00:30:57 | | Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye") |
| 00:31:19 | rasher | Well, it just seems like a completely arbitrary limitation (now), which I thought we disliked |
| 00:31:19 | Zagor | jepler: or grab them from download.rockbox.org |
| 00:31:57 | | Join Mouser_X [0] (n=someone@207.155.176.3) |
| 00:32:37 | pixelma | rasher: if you just want to try some backgrounds and then you realise that it has not enough contrast to your text colour |
| 00:32:58 | rasher | pixelma: yeah, but then you can just go into the menu and clear backdrop, surely? |
| 00:33:33 | pixelma | not if you can't read the text anymore |
| 00:33:51 | amiconn | linuxstb: Hmm. Telechips is arm v5te, correct? |
| 00:33:51 | pixelma | besides there are other things that are stored in their own folders inside .rockbox like the fm and eqpresets |
| 00:34:04 | amiconn | (i.e. arm946e-s) |
| 00:34:18 | rasher | pixelma: those are less likely to be changed by users browsing to the files though, I'd imagine |
| 00:34:35 | linuxstb | amiconn: Yes, sounds right. |
| 00:35:09 | jepler | Zagor: that's not the same as firmware.mi4 right? |
| 00:35:30 | Zagor | jepler: you need both, since sansapatcher is used for both e200 and c200 |
| 00:36:09 | | Quit bluebrother ("leaving") |
| 00:36:52 | * | amiconn wonders why arm9 has both members with armv4t and armv5te architecture... |
| 00:37:31 | | Quit webguest14 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 00:37:34 | jepler | er, that's not the same as rockbox.mi4, right? |
| 00:37:38 | pixelma | rasher: I don't have a strong opinion on that, just saying that there are upsides as well. But I noticed that there is one big difference to the fm and eq presets - you can browse the latter through the menu, whereas changing the backdrop if it's inside that folder needs the file view set to all |
| 00:37:44 | jepler | it's some part of the OF of those devices? |
| 00:38:39 | rasher | pixelma: Neither do I - it just seems weird that you can change backdrop, but for some unknown (to the inexperienced user) reason, the setting doesn't stick |
| 00:38:49 | | Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) |
| 00:38:50 | linuxstb | Zagor: Did you read my discussion the other day with bertrik about my Telechips usb problem with Linux? |
| 00:38:55 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 00:38:57 | jepler | well .. I just used a new sansapatcher binary from http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/sansapatcher/linux32x86/ and the rebuild disable seems to work for me now |
| 00:39:00 | jepler | bbl |
| 00:39:11 | Zagor | linuxstb: no, got a link/time? |
| 00:39:22 | Zagor | jepler: excellent |
| 00:39:33 | linuxstb | Zagor: 21 October, starting at 13.13.01 |
| 00:40:49 | Zagor | linuxstb: have you tried usbmon? |
| 00:41:08 | linuxstb | No, I don't even know what it is... |
| 00:41:37 | Zagor | linuxstb: see Documentation/usb/usbmon.txt in the linux source |
| 00:41:54 | Zagor | it's basically tcpdump for usb |
| 00:42:12 | Zagor | albeit a lot more confusing :) |
| 00:43:26 | Zagor | it's also what I've been staring at for the past week... |
| 00:44:41 | linuxstb | Will that help me if I can't control the USB device though? |
| 00:44:46 | preglow | man, this double-make-to-actually-link-the-codec bug is cool |
| 00:44:55 | preglow | could we please have makefile expert fix this? :/ |
| 00:45:02 | Zagor | linuxstb: it might help you understand what's going wrong |
| 00:45:21 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:45:40 | Zagor | it shows you all the low-level communication that is done to set up a usb device. it sounds like something there goes wrong. |
| 00:45:51 | | Join iamben [0] (n=ben@dpc67142179038.direcpc.com) |
| 00:46:19 | linuxstb | Zagor: Thanks, I'll try it, but can't at the moment as me and my device are away from a Linux machine. |
| 00:47:07 | linuxstb | preglow: Doesn't the sim do the opposite - i.e. always relink codecs, even when they don't change? |
| 00:47:35 | stripwax | rasher - maybe I'm missing something, what's the reason the backdrop setting wouldn't persist? |
| 00:48:24 | preglow | linuxstb: i think maybe it does, i can't remember having the problem there |
| 00:49:02 | | Quit ender` (" Debian comes in three flavours: stale, rusting and broken.") |
| 00:49:26 | * | linuxstb thinks Ender` was unfair... |
| 00:49:43 | rasher | stripwax: haven't looked at the code, but it's pretty much "just because" these days. Before moving to config files, it was to save space in the config sector. |
| 00:50:42 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-72-76-179-145.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:51:06 | linuxstb | Zagor: BTW, congratulations on your USB progress. Do I understand correctly you've now got both read and write bulk transfers working? |
| 00:52:06 | Zagor | linuxstb: yeah, with a few remaining issues |
| 00:52:12 | stripwax | rasher - wow, that's pretty grim |
| 00:52:59 | Zagor | rasher: I agree not saving the backdrop is silly |
| 00:54:22 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:55:08 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955EEEE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:55:31 | preglow | man, i would kill for jtag |
| 00:56:01 | rasher | preglow: ask bagder to send the sansa |
| 00:56:06 | rasher | Finally put it to good use.. |
| 00:56:26 | | Join webguest54 [0] (i=477838fd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-9564239882776bea) |
| 00:57:46 | scorche|w | as for the killing...well...we shall have a vote :) |
| 00:58:07 | | Join Benoitb [0] (n=Benoitb@86.76.66.53) |
| 00:59:44 | | Part Benoitb ("Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org") |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:25 | Zagor | write: 1048576 bytes in 560 ms = 1872 kB/s |
| 01:00:38 | Zagor | still without optimisation |
| 01:00:48 | Zagor | that's just using bigger packets |
| 01:01:23 | linuxstb | I was about to ask that - what size packets are you using? |
| 01:02:02 | Zagor | this last was 512 |
| 01:02:12 | Zagor | that's the largest allowed |
| 01:02:35 | Llorean | Do we know what the OF uses? |
| 01:02:52 | Zagor | Llorean: all high-speed devices use 512 |
| 01:03:20 | | Part safetydan |
| 01:03:21 | Llorean | Ah, good to know. Thanks. |
| 01:03:29 | linuxstb | When using dd with USB, I find a 32KB buffer size gives big speed improvements, so I assumed it was using that size over usb, but obviously not... |
| 01:05:34 | rasher | Zagor: not bad |
| 01:06:30 | Llorean | I bet it's faster than disk mode on my Nano |
| 01:06:32 | preglow | rasher: it's not coldfire :/ |
| 01:06:55 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:07:18 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@copernic-sda.pck.nerim.net) |
| 01:08:18 | J3TC- | Hrmm...which bmp should I change for the iaudio X5 bootlogo? |
| 01:08:20 | J3TC- | :3 |
| 01:08:31 | Llorean | The one that's 160 by something |
| 01:09:16 | J3TC- | rockboxlogo.160x50x16.bmp ? |
| 01:09:25 | J3TC- | or |
| 01:09:26 | Llorean | Probably, yes. |
| 01:09:27 | J3TC- | rockboxlogo.160x53x2 |
| 01:09:28 | linuxstb | J3TC: Check apps/bitmaps/native/SOURCES for the rules |
| 01:09:34 | preglow | amiconn: that 'illegal' trick is pretty nice |
| 01:09:34 | Llorean | x2 means "2 bit color", so no. |
| 01:09:36 | J3TC- | Ah ok |
| 01:09:42 | J3TC- | Thanks |
| 01:14:19 | | Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC") |
| 01:15:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:17:20 | | Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 01:25:43 | amiconn | Mrf |
| 01:25:51 | amiconn | test_codec is still shaky |
| 01:26:08 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:26:29 | amiconn | Plugging power while test_codec is running reproducably causes a prefetch abort at 0xDEADBEEE |
| 01:26:31 | | Quit atsea-22 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:26:33 | amiconn | ..on my H10 |
| 01:27:52 | | Join Shaid [0] (i=shaid@124-168-123-126.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:28:11 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 01:28:24 | linuxstb | amiconn: Could that cause the codec thread to wake up? |
| 01:28:38 | amiconn | Possibly |
| 01:28:53 | amiconn | Plugging power broadcasts a SYS_ event |
| 01:29:05 | linuxstb | Hmm, so mpegplayer would suffer similarly... |
| 01:30:31 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@host-194-46-226-143.dsl-ie.utvinternet.net) |
| 01:31:00 | amiconn | Hmm, weren't there reports that mpegplayer crashes when plugging usb? |
| 01:31:07 | | Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:33:28 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 01:34:24 | linuxstb | I don't know. |
| 01:35:44 | jhMikeS | yes, it will wake up the codec thread. why it needs to receive sys events I've no idea. I didn't check that simply because I wrongfully assumed it didn't. :\ |
| 01:36:11 | amiconn | If it has a registered queue, it will receive all broadcast events |
| 01:36:43 | jhMikeS | I know that...but _why_? it has no purpose I can see. |
| 01:38:58 | amiconn | I don't know. Does the codec thread need to do something on usb connection? I.e. discard some data instead of writing it back? |
| 01:39:57 | amiconn | If not, the codec queue wouldn't need to be registered, and the SYS_USB_CONNECTED handling could be removed from the codec thread |
| 01:40:09 | jhMikeS | playback should be stopped by the audio thread before the audio thread acks |
| 01:40:59 | jhMikeS | voice will also be returned to current. imo voice and codec should just be private. only the audio thread need handle that. |
| 01:41:30 | amiconn | linuxstb: Optimising scalarproduct for arm7 gives some further speedup. Not as much as vector_add/vector_sub though |
| 01:41:41 | amiconn | Now please someone optimise the entropy decoder... |
| 01:43:53 | barrywardell | amiconn: what's the status on your investigations of the PP LCD bridge? Have you had a chance to look at it any more? |
| 01:44:08 | amiconn | Only a little bit |
| 01:44:12 | | Quit Sedgewick (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:44:42 | amiconn | I.e. I did a dump of my small H10 and then compared the 4 dumps side by side for a while |
| 01:44:47 | amiconn | No experimentation yet |
| 01:45:04 | amiconn | I also tried to find the LCD routines in the H10 OF, but no luck so far |
| 01:45:31 | barrywardell | given the incredible speed improvement possibility for large H10 and ipod color, it would be nice to know more |
| 01:45:41 | amiconn | (I want that both for gleaning some details about the bridge timing and the TL1771 init sequence) |
| 01:48:32 | barrywardell | searching for 70008a00 in an objdump gives a couple of hits |
| 01:48:38 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:49:11 | amiconn | Yes - and those places put this value into a struct with an address calculated by another function... |
| 01:49:48 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 01:49:54 | barrywardell | ah, I see that makes things a lot harder to figure out. Have you tried looking at the bootloader dumps instead? |
| 01:50:22 | * | jhMikeS bits shark? => http://www.pastebin.ca/747385 |
| 01:50:35 | linuxstb | amiconn: Do you have any numbers for the scalarproduct opt? |
| 01:50:43 | amiconn | Yes |
| 01:51:16 | amiconn | -c2000 is now 74.5% (was 73.5% with add/sub, and 66% with svn) |
| 01:51:45 | linuxstb | As you said, small improvements add up... |
| 01:51:48 | amiconn | -c3000 48% (43%, 37%) |
| 01:52:27 | amiconn | -c4000 still running... |
| 01:52:47 | linuxstb | So with optimisation of the entropy decoding and dual-core, it seems -c3000 might be playable on PP... |
| 01:52:53 | amiconn | Note that the full patch would slow down gigabeat |
| 01:53:16 | amiconn | Just add/sub would be neutral - so I will keep the C version for gigabeat |
| 01:54:20 | pixelma | gah... TiMiD broke metronome a bit (for all it seems) and disabled it for hwcodec. He's not around ATM and it's unfortunate that it is only discovered now... :\ |
| 01:55:53 | amiconn | linuxstb: I don't know... even if one core does only filtering... |
| 01:57:00 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 01:57:22 | linuxstb | Can you remember your estimate of how much time is spent doing the entropy decoding? |
| 01:58:28 | linuxstb | Ah, for Coldfire and -c1000, 63% entropy, 37% predictor... |
| 01:59:46 | amiconn | That was before asm predictor.... |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:41 | linuxstb | pixelma: I wonder how he got away with disabling it for hwcodec... |
| 02:00:52 | amiconn | Now it's 75% entropy, 25% predictor |
| 02:01:35 | linuxstb | pixelma: Hmm, seems it was hidden in this commit - http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=14046 |
| 02:01:37 | amiconn | -c3000 is well within reach on coldfire with an optimised entropy decoder. It's already 108% realtime in my local version |
| 02:01:46 | pixelma | for swcodec it's not broken but you use it differently which got me confused |
| 02:02:13 | pixelma | linuxstb: that's what I based my statement on |
| 02:02:36 | linuxstb | pixelma: Have you tried compiling it for hwcodec? |
| 02:03:05 | pixelma | no, not yet |
| 02:04:14 | pixelma | I also have to figure out why it doesn't work correctly with tapping and "playing" on the c200, I suspect button action conflicts :| |
| 02:04:40 | amiconn | linuxstb: -c4000 on PP: 17.6% (full) <- 14.9% (add/sub) <- 11% (svn) |
| 02:08:25 | | Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) |
| 02:08:31 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 02:09:00 | pixelma | I can see the potential conflict for the c200 keymap - the "play" button used to play the beat back is also the "up" used to adjust the volume... |
| 02:10:39 | * | pixelma is reminded of the plugin button action mail she never got a response to |
| 02:10:54 | linuxstb | amiconn: Nice improvement for -c4000 over svn... |
| 02:11:35 | amiconn | Did you see the entropy vs. predictor figures 10 minutes ago? |
| 02:11:51 | linuxstb | pixelma: To be honest, I'm not that fond of the button actions anywhere - I found the old method much clearer (apart from the messy pre- handling). |
| 02:12:35 | linuxstb | amiconn: Yes, and I've been staring at the entropy decoder... |
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| 02:14:18 | pixelma | linuxstb: I was also a bit lost yesterday when looking at the c200 keymap file, trying to understand what's happening in the radio screen. But I don't know the "old method" (except in plugins) |
| 02:15:51 | linuxstb | The "old method" is just the same as the plugins - defining the buttons directly. |
| 02:16:41 | | Quit webguest54 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 02:17:16 | amiconn | The old method is worse when the same, or very similar, button->action mapping is needed in many places: lots of duplicated code |
| 02:17:37 | | Quit joshin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:17:51 | amiconn | So imho the action system makes sense in the core. But for plugins, I like the old method better. |
| 02:18:27 | | Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) |
| 02:18:28 | Llorean | I agree with amiconn on this one |
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| 02:23:05 | * | linuxstb sleeps |
| 02:23:06 | | Part linuxstb |
| 02:23:25 | preglow | i need a brain center for asm |
| 02:23:46 | preglow | this isn't working out |
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| 02:39:04 | pianohacker | What's the difference between apps/player/keyboard.c and apps/recorder/keyboard.c ? |
| 02:39:25 | sdoyon | What is the intended effect of NEXTREPEAT in the radio? |
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| 02:40:38 | sdoyon | pianohacker: AFAIK those are two different Archos models. |
| 02:41:20 | pianohacker | Okay. They both have kbd_input functions; which is the canonical one? |
| 02:41:40 | JdGordon | pianohacker: player is sued for the charcell target, recorder is used for the rest |
| 02:41:53 | pianohacker | Okay, thanks. |
| 02:42:16 | pianohacker | Now I can rewrite it. |
| 02:42:20 | pianohacker | Bye |
| 02:42:21 | | Quit pianohacker (Client Quit) |
| 02:44:55 | safetydan | rewrite? this should be interesting |
| 02:48:30 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: would you glance at the last patch in P#6239 and give me a general comment? |
| 02:54:01 | pixelma | metronome even compiles for hwcodec and works but the keymap at least for the Ondio is pretty much unusable too :\ |
| 02:56:03 | jhMikeS | sdoyon: quickly...then sleep time |
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| 02:58:01 | | Nick Shaid` is now known as Shaid (i=shaid@124-168-83-35.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:58:49 | jhMikeS | sdoyon: I should mention on hwcodec the event isn't available but that _is_ interrupt context so can't be used there anyway. Not sure it matters. |
| 03:00 |
| 03:01:38 | jhMikeS | sdoyon: I don't think you need a manul reset event either. The callback will signal it, and the wait will leave it nonsignaled |
| 03:01:59 | | Part pixelma |
| 03:04:01 | sdoyon | jhMikes: Oh? I'll go reread kernel.c I guess. |
| 03:04:49 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: about HWCODEC and the callback in interrupt context: what do I do about mutual exclusion? |
| 03:05:11 | jhMikeS | disable interrupts and reset to old level |
| 03:05:48 | jhMikeS | using auto event and just the event_wait call alone would perform atomically what it seems you're getting at |
| 03:07:23 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: there's that queue_write that both queue_clip and the callback manipulate, and conditions on queue_level == 0... |
| 03:08:28 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: the adding of the silence cip at the end from within the callback looks a bit problematic without a mutex... |
| 03:09:12 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: OK I'll look at it again, look into HWCODEC and explain things better... just wanted a general opinion as to I was going in a worthwhile direction with this. |
| 03:10:10 | jhMikeS | on HWCODEC set_irq_level would act like the mutex and not let it be entered during the disable |
| 03:10:28 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: what's with the #if CONFIG_CPU == SH7034 |
| 03:11:06 | jhMikeS | better go with #if CONFIG_CODEC == SWCODEC |
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| 03:12:31 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: if it were my choice yes, but that #if CONFIG_CODEC != SWCODEC is already in talk_force_shutup(). Which cases does that cover? They disable DMA in there... |
| 03:13:48 | jhMikeS | That's done for hwcodec since the callback is ISR context there. The callback is just thread context on SWCODEC. |
| 03:14:28 | | Quit BigBambi (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 03:15:35 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:16:40 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: but what's the difference between #if CONFIG_CODEC == SWCODEC vs #if CONFIG_CODEC == HWCODEC? |
| 03:18:16 | jhMikeS | There's no HWCODEC #define |
| 03:18:27 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 03:18:27 | jhMikeS | I guess they already protect on hwcodec |
| 03:20:07 | jhMikeS | hwcodec currently refers to the MAS decoder on archos models. SWCODEC uses the CPU to decode audio. |
| 03:20:19 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: Oh right, but then is #if CONFIG_CODEC == SWCODEC supposed to be equivalent to #if CONFIG_CODEC != SWCODEC? |
| 03:21:21 | jhMikeS | CONFIG_CODEC == SWCODEC is eq. to CONFIG_CODEC != some_hardware_decoder (!HWCODEC) |
| 03:22:06 | | Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 03:23:05 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: Yes I know that, I'd just like to know how to handle the #if CONFIG_CPU == SH7034 that I see in talk.c, and whether I'm to understand that this #ifdef is intended to cover all HWCODEC cases. |
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| 03:23:50 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: CHCR3 &= ~0x0001; /* disable the DMA (and therefore the interrupt also) */ |
| 03:24:33 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: That must be specific to that particular CPU. What other HWCODEC cases does this leave out? |
| 03:24:52 | jhMikeS | #if CONFIG_CODE == SWCODEC, #elif CONFIG_CPU == SH7034, #endif |
| 03:25:08 | jhMikeS | none |
| 03:25:57 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: Ah good. Thanks. |
| 03:26:08 | jhMikeS | I suppose myself, I'd use the most technically correct manner even if redundant atm |
| 03:27:12 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: I guess the idea is there might be other HWCODEC archs in future. Just wasn't obvious to me that it covered all cases. |
| 03:27:45 | sdoyon | jhMikeS: OK then, good night :-). Thanks. |
| 03:28:18 | jhMikeS | goodnight |
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| 04:00 |
| 04:00:54 | sdoyon | Anyone understands what NEXTREPEAT is intended to do in the radio screen? |
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| 04:22:29 | Davide-NYC | Hi, anyone care to test something for me? |
| 04:22:51 | * | Davide-NYC about to file a bug report and want to make sure it's not just me. |
| 04:23:03 | sdoyon | What kind of something? |
| 04:23:22 | Davide-NYC | I believe that mp3_encoder is fairly broken on h1x0 players. |
| 04:23:39 | Davide-NYC | Actually totally broken. It freezes the player requiring a pin reset |
| 04:24:06 | Davide-NYC | can someone with a coldfire target attempt to encode a wav to mp3 for me? |
| 04:24:33 | Davide-NYC | It works for gigabeat f20. |
| 04:24:43 | Davide-NYC | so it's not all targets. |
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| 04:25:55 | sdoyon | Davide-NYC: ouch. Hmm can't help you with this one, not until I make the plugin accessible :-). |
| 04:27:50 | Davide-NYC | Just for the sake of it I ran it in the h1x0 simulator (in cygwin) and it worked fine. |
| 04:27:58 | Davide-NYC | :-P |
| 04:28:24 | | Quit sdoyon ("ircII EPIC4-2.4 -- Are we there yet?") |
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| 04:31:55 | Davide-NYC | Anybody else with a coldfire targetout there willing to confirm this? |
| 04:32:27 | | Quit kkurbjun ("Leaving.") |
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| 04:42:32 | Davide-NYC | mp3_encoder crashes bug filed: FS #8019 |
| 04:42:32 | | Quit viperman3 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 04:43:13 | Davide-NYC | What would be great is a transcoder. Whatever decoder to whatever encoder. That would be sweet. |
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| 05:00 |
| 05:00:01 | | Join CiNc028 [0] (n=chopper@pool-72-92-107-20.phlapa.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:00:08 | CiNc028 | heyllo:) |
| 05:00:14 | CiNc028 | i have a question or two |
| 05:00:22 | CiNc028 | can anyone help me. about rockbox |
| 05:00:48 | CiNc028 | im trying to get my ipod photo to playback vidz |
| 05:01:40 | Mouser_X | I know how to play MPEG vides, but I don't know about any VID format. |
| 05:01:42 | Mouser_X | :P |
| 05:02:05 | CiNc028 | well if its mpeg. its best for me. |
| 05:02:11 | * | karashata baps Mouser_X here too... |
| 05:02:21 | karashata | CiNc028: what seems to be the problem? |
| 05:02:28 | CiNc028 | now is rockbox the only thing out righ tnow to do that |
| 05:02:55 | CiNc028 | well my problem is stupid home dvd player broke on me. and now i wanna see vidz. other than my pc |
| 05:02:56 | krazykit | CiNc028, yes. read the wiki on how to do that |
| 05:03:14 | Mouser_X | PluginMpegplayer. |
| 05:03:27 | CiNc028 | thats what i was just reading just now |
| 05:04:24 | CiNc028 | okay ima go read all of the info. |
| 05:04:32 | CiNc028 | thnk u mouser |
| 05:04:43 | CiNc028 | and krazy |
| 05:04:51 | scorche | please use real english in here, as per the guidelines |
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| 05:31:52 | CiNc028 | hey mouser can i ask u something |
| 05:32:08 | CiNc028 | no wi just got done reding upto where it talks about the usb . |
| 05:32:19 | DogBoy | english... |
| 05:32:28 | DogBoy | heh |
| 05:32:33 | CiNc028 | so if i connect my ipod via usb i cant transfer files to it |
| 05:32:42 | CiNc028 | sorri. im typing so fast |
| 05:32:45 | CiNc028 | lol |
| 05:33:49 | Davide-NYC | I vote to start using either esperanto or lojban in here exclusively. (just kidding) |
| 05:34:22 | karashata | CiNc028: you can't transfer files in Rockbox, you'd either have to boot into the original iPod firmware, or UMS mode (where the iPod is seen as a hard drive instead of an iPod) |
| 05:34:43 | karashata | Davide-NYC: that'd just be cruel... |
| 05:34:44 | CiNc028 | ah |
| 05:34:54 | CiNc028 | ok i understand totally now |
| 05:35:03 | karashata | hope that helps you |
| 05:35:03 | CiNc028 | tiem to keep reading |
| 05:35:23 | CiNc028 | it does. cus i understand now lol |
| 05:35:39 | scorche | "cus" is not english |
| 05:35:56 | karashata | I don't know if/when they'll get USB working in Rockbox, I think they're working on it though |
| 05:37:03 | Mouser_X | One thing I'd like to see (for all targets, but that's a different matter) is longer battery life. I realize why the iPod lacking though. |
| 05:37:40 | * | karashata gets nearly 11 hours average on 20 GB H10 |
| 05:37:46 | scorche | Mouser_X: well, for all targets except the PP devices, we already get better battery life than the OF |
| 05:37:57 | CiNc028 | excuse me scorche. "because" |
| 05:38:16 | Mouser_X | I'm considering doing the iPod battery mod for my Gigabeat... |
| 05:38:49 | CiNc028 | is there any sites to buy replacement faceplates for the ipod? |
| 05:39:00 | CiNc028 | any sites anyone here recomend? |
| 05:39:21 | karashata | could always check eBay for busted iPods for parts... |
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| 05:42:33 | CiNc028 | im wondering about how far moddin ipods will go. maybe one day one can use it to play psp games off of. |
| 05:42:49 | Mouser_X | Nope. |
| 05:43:03 | Mouser_X | iPod hardware isn't good enough (not even close.) |
| 05:43:03 | CiNc028 | why do you say nope? |
| 05:43:15 | CiNc028 | <~~ bubbl ehas been busted |
| 05:43:25 | CiNc028 | friggin space bar |
| 05:43:53 | Mouser_X | There's some audio codecs that the iPod has trouble playing (SPC being the notable one. It does run, but some people have complained about its accuracey). |
| 05:44:18 | karashata | CiNc028: the processor in an iPod isn't nearly powerfully enough to emulate the PSP hardware no matter how you cut it... |
| 05:44:46 | karashata | it's a DAP, it's meant to play music, mainly |
| 05:44:47 | Mouser_X | It can *barely* emulate the Gameboy (I'm somewhat surprised it runs at all.) |
| 05:45:02 | CiNc028 | damn. |
| 05:45:29 | CiNc028 | well i can say its good enough for music |
| 05:45:46 | CiNc028 | oh i do have one other question |
| 05:45:52 | Mouser_X | The Gigabeat can emulate the SNES though, if one were written and optimised enough for it. |
| 05:46:05 | karashata | CiNc028: what's your question? |
| 05:46:10 | CiNc028 | if im installing rockbox on my ipod should have all and any other windows programs closed? |
| 05:46:22 | karashata | shouldn't matter |
| 05:46:30 | Mouser_X | Only for the stability of the operating system. |
| 05:46:56 | Mouser_X | In other words, in your context, it doesn't really matter. However, if your system is "shakey" then you might want to. |
| 05:47:15 | CiNc028 | i have always played it safe even with moddin the psp. i would restart and do what i need to do. |
| 05:47:16 | karashata | Mouser_X: that really shouldn't be such an issue unless you're running Win98 or something... |
| 05:47:29 | CiNc028 | i only run winxp pro |
| 05:47:34 | * | Mouser_X *is* running Win98. |
| 05:47:43 | Mouser_X | :P |
| 05:47:53 | CiNc028 | i didnt knwo people still ran that os |
| 05:47:58 | CiNc028 | know* |
| 05:48:07 | karashata | ah |
| 05:48:41 | karashata | post... Win2000 maybe, you don't need to worry so much about shutting everything down when installing applications and such |
| 05:48:52 | krazykit | though this is getting offtopic... |
| 05:49:18 | CiNc028 | okay ill just install as is. |
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| 05:53:22 | CiNc028 | okay no whow do i install rockbox? |
| 05:53:31 | krazykit | you read the manual. |
| 05:53:35 | Mouser_X | Read the manual. |
| 05:53:40 | Mouser_X | Dang. Beat me. |
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| 05:55:18 | CiNc028 | well what i mean is do i have to format the ipod HD ? |
| 05:55:37 | Mouser_X | No, you don't. |
| 05:55:42 | Mouser_X | Wait. |
| 05:55:49 | Mouser_X | Is your iPod FAT32? |
| 05:56:10 | krazykit | he's on windows, it is. |
| 05:56:13 | CiNc028 | let me check |
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| 05:56:30 | Mouser_X | krazykit: D'oh! You're right. |
| 05:56:45 | Mouser_X | CiNc028: Nope, no need to format. You're good to go. |
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| 05:57:54 | CiNc028 | ok no format good |
| 06:00 |
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| 06:13:38 | | Quit DC1 ("If Obi-wan ain't home then I don't know what the fsck we're gonna do. I ain't got no other connections on Tattooine.") |
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| 06:15:36 | CiNc028 | ok im runnign rockbox now:) yay |
| 06:17:09 | psycho_maniac | what player? |
| 06:17:29 | Mouser_X | ipod |
| 06:17:53 | Davide-NYC | congrats! |
| 06:19:20 | CiNc028 | thnk u thnk u |
| 06:19:33 | CiNc028 | i would clap but no one will here me but the baby |
| 06:20:03 | CiNc028 | now to get out of rockbox and back into ipod crap. how do i do? |
| 06:20:23 | Mouser_X | It's in the manual somewhere... |
| 06:20:28 | Mouser_X | (I remember reading it.) |
| 06:20:38 | CiNc028 | me too |
| 06:20:45 | CiNc028 | ill read again |
| 06:25:41 | Davide-NYC | Any devs want to help a feeble wretch add in target and build info to the test_codec logfile? |
| 06:26:25 | Davide-NYC | I've figure where to put the log_test() funtion call but have not clue how to insert the target and build info. |
| 06:28:08 | Davide-NYC | (no laughing) This is what I have right now: log_text("This is where we insert the target and build info.",true); |
| 06:28:19 | Davide-NYC | lol |
| 06:28:35 | Mouser_X | I'd help, but you already know more than I do. |
| 06:28:59 | * | karashata could only wish he knew C |
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| 06:33:16 | safetydan | Davide-NYC: doesn't the credits plugins have version information? |
| 06:34:04 | Davide-NYC | safetydan: looking... thanks for the tip |
| 06:36:03 | midkay | yes, plus the "info -> rockbox info" screen does. |
| 06:41:31 | Davide-NYC | midkay: what c file is the info screen? |
| 06:42:16 | midkay | not sure.. screens.c *perhaps*, or dig into.. main_menu.c to see what it references? |
| 06:42:51 | | Quit webguest27 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 06:43:14 | Davide-NYC | credits called show_logo() so I thought that wasn't what I wanted. |
| 06:43:42 | Davide-NYC | not even sure where show_logo() is defined |
| 06:43:49 | CiNc028 | hey thanks again mouser. |
| 06:44:00 | CiNc028 | ima go watch some vidz now |
| 06:44:27 | psycho_maniac | have fun |
| 06:47:16 | safetydan | Davide-NYC: grep is your friend |
| 06:47:30 | Davide-NYC | who? |
| 06:47:51 | Davide-NYC | never became friendly with regular expressions. Too old. Too steep. |
| 06:49:19 | safetydan | Davide-NYC, grep doesn't require regexps. All you really need is something like "grep -r show_logo rockbox-src/" |
| 06:50:19 | Davide-NYC | but I should RTFgrepM, right? |
| 06:50:34 | Davide-NYC | I'm on it. |
| 06:51:07 | Davide-NYC | I think I'm after appsversion[], although I'm not sure about those square braces. |
| 06:59:09 | | Quit safetydan ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 07:00 |
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| 07:09:31 | | Join webguest69 [0] (i=423a97a1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f0d9592273e72af5) |
| 07:09:49 | webguest69 | oh, yes, I'm no longer banned |
| 07:10:05 | JdGordon | we can change that if you want? |
| 07:10:16 | webguest69 | Not again please! |
| 07:11:21 | | Nick webguest69 is now known as DavidRawson (i=423a97a1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f0d9592273e72af5) |
| 07:12:23 | DavidRawson | Do you think that there will ever be a possiblity of a more complex rockbox system? |
| 07:12:50 | Davide-NYC | I'm making it more complex right now! |
| 07:12:55 | DavidRawson | One that can run separate binaries instead of plugins. |
| 07:13:01 | Bagder | it's more complex today than it was a week ago |
| 07:13:44 | Bagder | DavidRawson: why would that be a good idea? |
| 07:13:59 | Shaid | I'm off to write code that randomly assigned button bindings so that each time you boot rockbox it's a guessing game which button does what. |
| 07:14:09 | Shaid | watch out for when select gets bound to 'delete all' |
| 07:14:16 | DavidRawson | Make the system run on binaries that don't have to be compiled with rockbox, that can run separately. |
| 07:14:41 | Bagder | and I repeat: why would that be a good idea? |
| 07:15:02 | DavidRawson | To make it easier to run programs on the system. |
| 07:15:13 | Shaid | wouldn't that make it harder? |
| 07:15:34 | Bagder | I don't think people think running plugins is hard |
| 07:15:42 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 07:15:47 | Shaid | I mean, most of the platforms are on different cpus |
| 07:16:02 | Davide-NYC | what exactly does snprintf return? |
| 07:16:05 | Shaid | so you'd have to write a seperate binary type for each one, unless I'm being thick. |
| 07:16:09 | | Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection) |
| 07:16:10 | DavidRawson | Scripts that rockbox can run? |
| 07:16:14 | Bagder | Davide-NYC: the length of the new string, iirc |
| 07:16:44 | DavidRawson | Like an actionscript works for macromedia flash. |
| 07:16:54 | Shaid | then they're not binaries. |
| 07:17:11 | DavidRawson | Your different CPUs made me change my mind |
| 07:17:19 | Davide-NYC | Bagder: so what exactly does this do? snprintf(version, sizeof(version), "Ver. %s", appsversion); |
| 07:17:33 | scorche | DavidRawson: new IP i see... |
| 07:17:52 | DavidRawson | no, I asked Lloren to unban me |
| 07:17:53 | Bagder | Davide-NYC: it creates a string in a buffer with the version number |
| 07:18:25 | Davide-NYC | can I embed that whole business inside a function that expects a string as an argument? |
| 07:18:25 | DavidRawson | and how could I get a new IP anyway? |
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| 07:19:01 | Davide-NYC | Bagder: example: log_text("snprintf(version, sizeof(version), "Ver. %s", appsversion);",true); |
| 07:19:30 | Davide-NYC | maybe there's an extra ";" in there' |
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| 07:19:52 | DavidRawson | none of that stuff makes sense to me |
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| 07:20:19 | DavidRawson | if this is a coding IRC, i'm outta here! |
| 07:20:25 | | Quit DavidRawson ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 07:20:26 | * | Davide-NYC throws caution to the wind and compiles |
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| 07:20:42 | * | scorche wonders who unbanned him.. |
| 07:20:46 | Davide-NYC | lol |
| 07:21:05 | Davide-NYC | error |
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| 07:22:55 | Davide-NYC | if I just call appversion what do I get? |
| 07:23:58 | scorche | nope...he is still banned...it is a new IP |
| 07:25:02 | Davide-NYC | someone please take mercy on me and walk me through this valley of darkness. |
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| 07:45:09 | ddalton | how could I reset the alarm to go off once it has gone off already? |
| 07:45:13 | ddalton | in code? |
| 07:45:55 | ddalton | could i change this to true? rtc_enable_alarm(false); |
| 07:49:32 | | Nick animeloe_ is now known as animeloe (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
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| 08:09:50 | Davide-NYC | I give up. |
| 08:09:58 | Davide-NYC | For now. |
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| 08:35:19 | ddalton | how do I use prep? |
| 08:35:24 | ddalton | or what ever it is called? |
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| 08:41:38 | GodEater_ | do you mean grep ? |
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| 08:56:56 | ddalton | yes |
| 08:56:57 | ddalton | grep |
| 08:57:19 | scorche | ddalton: there are an infinite amount of grep tutorials on the internet... |
| 08:59:01 | GodEater_ | but the quick answer is : grep "stuff you're looking for" files_to_search |
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| 09:00 |
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| 09:15:45 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 09:23:16 | leftright | Hi, H140, r15282: is it me or is the "play next" insertion broken ? |
| 09:24:26 | leftright | never mind, just not awake |
| 09:26:39 | leftright | it does work as advertised |
| 09:26:56 | | Quit joshin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 09:27:03 | Mouser_X | It's advertised? |
| 09:27:33 | leftright | meaning it works as intended |
| 09:27:58 | Mouser_X | Ah. That's different. (Perhaps I've been up *way* too late...) |
| 09:28:06 | leftright | :) |
| 09:29:46 | | Join joshin [0] (n=joshin@VDSL-130-13-11-27.PHNX.QWEST.NET) |
| 09:31:19 | | Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 09:31:37 | leftright | morgen |
| 09:48:14 | | Quit crashd ("leaving") |
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| 09:51:16 | | Join thegeek [0] (i=thegeek@s220b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 09:59:43 | GodEater_ | godeater.cream.org/Logik_with_switch.jpg">http://godeater.cream.org/Logik_with_switch.jpg <−− linuxstb's new development toy :) |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:53 | | Quit hcs ("Leaving.") |
| 10:01:17 | Zagor | GodEater: any fun hw inside? |
| 10:01:24 | Zagor | apart from the dab receiver, I mean |
| 10:03:29 | | Join pondlife [0] (n=Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife) |
| 10:04:03 | GodEater_ | Telechips |
| 10:04:12 | Zagor | ah, which one? |
| 10:04:17 | GodEater_ | one sec |
| 10:04:26 | Bagder | TCC773L wasn't it? |
| 10:04:28 | GodEater_ | http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/logik/main_board.jpg |
| 10:04:45 | Bagder | bingo! |
| 10:05:02 | GodEater_ | the switch is connected to the NAND and USB points just next to the TCC773L |
| 10:05:13 | GodEater_ | to allow it to boot from NAND or USB |
| 10:05:22 | GodEater_ | (at least, that's the theory) |
| 10:05:33 | Bagder | usb boot is really neat |
| 10:05:42 | GodEater_ | it will be our first DAB target I believe :) |
| 10:06:10 | Zagor | "Wire wound", is that when you cut yourself on a sharp wire? :) |
| 10:06:10 | * | GodEater_ isn't sure how booting over usb is supposed to work - but linuxstb seemed confident |
| 10:06:27 | GodEater_ | Zagor: hehehe |
| 10:06:30 | | Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 10:06:33 | Bagder | GodEater: I'm quite sure we have a good idea on how that works... :-P |
| 10:06:53 | | Part leftright |
| 10:07:00 | GodEater_ | Bagder: glad to hear it |
| 10:08:16 | | Quit thegeek_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:12:02 | Bagder | GodEater_: seeing my PM? |
| 10:14:55 | | Quit ackbahr (Connection reset by peer) |
| 10:15:48 | GodEater_ | I love the way the thing *advertises* it does DRM on the bloody case |
| 10:15:59 | GodEater_ | like it's something to be proud of |
| 10:16:00 | Zagor | GodEater: yeah I noticed that too |
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| 10:20:30 | ddalton | GodEater_: what do I run that from? emacs? or the terminal? |
| 10:20:49 | ddalton | re gprep sorry |
| 10:21:01 | ddalton | his not here? |
| 10:21:58 | Bagder | ddalton: grep can be done in the terminal or within emacs, at your choice |
| 10:22:33 | ddalton | GodEater_: so gprep SOUND_VOLUME trunk? I want to search for sound_volume |
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| 10:24:09 | GodEater_ | ddalton: "grep -R SOUND_VOLUME ." |
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| 10:25:16 | | Quit joshin (Connection reset by peer) |
| 10:28:13 | Zagor | what card type does the ondio take? |
| 10:28:21 | n1s | mmc |
| 10:29:22 | Zagor | ok, thanks |
| 10:33:02 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 10:36:45 | ddalton | ok thanks let me try... |
| 10:37:13 | ddalton | what should happen now? |
| 10:39:36 | ddalton | GodEater_: what should I see happen in the terminal? |
| 10:39:45 | ddalton | or hear :-) |
| 10:40:12 | GodEater_ | ddalton: one second... |
| 10:40:13 | ddalton | ok maybe I typed it wrong |
| 10:40:26 | ddalton | oh tnaks |
| 10:40:36 | ddalton | thanks |
| 10:41:16 | GodEater_ | ddalton: ah my mistake |
| 10:41:25 | GodEater_ | ddalton: replace the "." with a "*" |
| 10:41:36 | GodEater_ | putting "." there makes it scan your entire disc - not a good plan |
| 10:41:51 | GodEater_ | ctrl-c it if it's still running |
| 10:50:15 | amiconn | GodEater: ?? "." is current dir ... |
| 10:50:20 | | Quit TentaclePorn () |
| 10:50:26 | GodEater_ | amiconn: which contains ".." |
| 10:51:09 | amiconn | * would also cover that |
| 10:51:18 | rasher | * doesn't cover dotfiles |
| 10:51:26 | * | GodEater_ was just going to say that |
| 10:51:30 | amiconn | . also shouldn't |
| 10:51:39 | GodEater_ | it does though I'm afraid |
| 10:52:00 | GodEater_ | tip: don't ever "chmod -R ." - you *will* break your machine |
| 10:52:51 | amiconn | . doesn't include .. |
| 10:53:27 | | Quit pepie34 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 10:53:34 | GodEater_ | amiconn: just try it and see what happens |
| 10:53:39 | amiconn | I did |
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| 10:54:05 | amiconn | (for grep) |
| 10:54:08 | GodEater_ | perhaps cygwin's grep works differently then |
| 10:54:18 | amiconn | I tried both cygwin and linux |
| 10:54:26 | GodEater_ | but here, for me, "grep -R stuff ." goes wandering off all over the place |
| 10:55:29 | amiconn | cygwin grep *is* gnu grep |
| 10:55:40 | amiconn | Then you might have some alias for it |
| 10:56:07 | GodEater_ | or you might have a GREP_OPTIONS set |
| 10:56:35 | amiconn | negative |
| 10:56:49 | GodEater_ | well I can't explain it then. Because it's definitely going back up the tree here |
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| 10:58:00 | GodEater_ | and clearly is doing that for ddalton too - since he's had no output |
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| 11:00 |
| 11:00:03 | amiconn | grep -V ==> grep (GNU grep) 2.5.1 (cygwin), GNU grep 2.5.3 (linux) |
| 11:00:21 | | Quit RaRe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 11:00:27 | rasher | Doesn't here |
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| 11:01:12 | n1s | doesn't here either... |
| 11:01:20 | pixelma | I get the same amount of hits when doing the both versions - I searched for a Rockbox specific term in one of my trees. If it included ".." then it should have found twice as much because I got a second tree |
| 11:01:46 | GodEater_ | .me isn't imagining it either |
| 11:01:54 | GodEater_ | I just ran lsof on the process |
| 11:02:01 | GodEater_ | and it's off somewhere in my /usr/lib tree |
| 11:02:29 | GodEater_ | ah no - hang on |
| 11:02:32 | GodEater_ | I know what it's doing |
| 11:02:43 | GodEater_ | ahem |
| 11:02:48 | GodEater_ | ignore me - go about your business |
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| 11:02:57 | amiconn | I can only imagine one of 3 things: (1) you have a buggy grep. (2) you have some option set that makes it include dotfiles (3) It depends on the filesystem |
| 11:03:20 | GodEater_ | amiconn: it *is* including dotfiles, but not .. |
| 11:03:27 | GodEater_ | it's searching through the .git directory |
| 11:03:31 | GodEater_ | which is enormous |
| 11:04:01 | amiconn | So why does it go up for you? |
| 11:06:52 | GodEater_ | it doesn't |
| 11:07:05 | ddalton | Hmmm anyone know where Sound_volume is declared? |
| 11:07:05 | GodEater_ | the lsof is just listing the libraries that grep is linked against. |
| 11:07:07 | GodEater_ | <−− embarassed |
| 11:08:44 | pondlife | GodEater_: Changing subject quickly - how's MoB workiing for you? |
| 11:09:09 | GodEater_ | pondlife: fine currently - but haven't updated since whenever we were last speaking and I was complaining about crossfade buggering everything up |
| 11:09:23 | pondlife | OK, so no new issues. |
| 11:09:31 | GodEater_ | has Nico done anything much with it since then ? |
| 11:09:53 | pondlife | Looks like it |
| 11:10:00 | pondlife | I've just updated my H340 |
| 11:10:16 | * | GodEater_ git pulls |
| 11:10:29 | pondlife | I'm not convinced about his new buffer-when-disk-spinning strategy though |
| 11:10:43 | pondlife | Suspect it could be simpler to use the callback |
| 11:11:18 | pondlife | I might be misunderstanding his comments, but it seems like he no longer fills the buffer if the user spins up the disk. |
| 11:11:30 | pondlife | Will play. |
| 11:12:38 | * | GodEater_ runs make |
| 11:12:53 | * | ddalton Looks for "Sound_volume" |
| 11:13:50 | pondlife | ddalton: Are you being case-insensitive? |
| 11:13:57 | ddalton | JdGordon: do you know where SOUND_VOLUME is declared or defined? |
| 11:14:00 | ddalton | what file |
| 11:14:29 | ddalton | pondlife: it is upper case |
| 11:14:39 | pondlife | Yep, just checking |
| 11:14:42 | * | ddalton Tries grep once more |
| 11:15:01 | ddalton | but my find in my text editor doesn't check for case... |
| 11:15:25 | GodEater_ | it looks to me like it's defined in the drivers for the different DACS |
| 11:15:49 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:16:18 | GodEater_ | ddalton: so have a look in the files under firmware/drivers/audio |
| 11:16:59 | * | ddalton takes GodEater_'s advice |
| 11:17:44 | ddalton | GodEater_: what's the h300? how do I find out? |
| 11:18:15 | GodEater_ | ask pondlife :) |
| 11:18:28 | ddalton | pondlife? |
| 11:18:56 | * | pondlife looks |
| 11:18:57 | GodEater_ | ddalton: or check the wiki - the components should be detailed there |
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| 11:19:38 | GodEater_ | pondlife: running a shiny new MoB build |
| 11:19:40 | GodEater_ | will keep you posted |
| 11:19:56 | | Quit pepie34 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 11:19:58 | GodEater_ | although I'm off to chilly Canada tomorrow - and have no idea how much intertubes access I'll have |
| 11:20:22 | pondlife | Keep a notepad handy |
| 11:20:50 | | Join mirak [0] (i=c34458b5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e82522a5a8263358) |
| 11:21:49 | pondlife | ddalton: uda1380.c |
| 11:22:13 | ddalton | pondlife: how did you find out that? |
| 11:22:14 | pondlife | I should know that - the UDA went pop in my H340 - LinusN fixed it |
| 11:22:34 | pondlife | But, you can check config-*.h for details of any device |
| 11:22:52 | pondlife | e.g. config-h300.h here |
| 11:23:20 | pondlife | Maybe the #define HAVE_UDA1380 could be commented better :) |
| 11:23:53 | pondlife | ddalton: Why do you need to know such low-level stuff, btw? |
| 11:24:41 | ddalton | Pondlife: I am making a new setting for the sound settings. It is "Alarm volume" so that is how loud the alarm will be when it wakes up... |
| 11:25:08 | ddalton | Won't put it on the tracker because the coding is shocking but when I start coding proply again I will fix it. |
| 11:25:19 | ddalton | because im probably going to stop after this. |
| 11:25:20 | pondlife | I wouldn't think that needs to be low-level |
| 11:25:25 | ddalton | for a while maybe 5 months |
| 11:25:40 | pondlife | Look at the "beep volume" setting |
| 11:25:48 | ddalton | it seems to be. That is where it was declared... |
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| 11:26:10 | | Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@m94.net81-66-75.noos.fr) |
| 11:26:12 | mirak | hi |
| 11:26:20 | ddalton | I was looking at volume. But might as well see what happens. I will do tht next time. |
| 11:26:21 | ddalton | that |
| 11:26:41 | | Quit Isolinear (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:27:00 | mirak | I have a problem encoding videos on Ubuntu since edgy. the sound is broken when encoding with mencoder using mp3 |
| 11:27:11 | mirak | there is only white noise for sound |
| 11:27:34 | GodEater_ | mirak: that's not a rockbox problem... |
| 11:27:42 | ddalton | Pondlife: what do you think of these tasks? FS #8006, 8007 and 8012? |
| 11:27:58 | ddalton | obviously 8012 needs a bit of work... |
| 11:28:03 | mirak | GodEater for mpegplayer that's a problem, since the lines to encode are on the wiki |
| 11:28:29 | Llorean | mirak: Just because the lines to encode are in the wiki doesn't mean it's our job to make sure they work on every OS or distro. |
| 11:28:38 | pondlife | I like the idea of 8006, but wouldn't make it configurable. |
| 11:28:52 | Llorean | For example, anything using ffmpeg on Ubuntu is unlikely to work if you've downloaded ffmpeg with apt-get, because they don't include MP3 support. |
| 11:29:04 | pondlife | Just use the menus setting? |
| 11:29:13 | pondlife | i.e. talk_menu |
| 11:30:09 | | Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.) |
| 11:30:12 | | Join idnar_ [0] (n=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar) |
| 11:30:14 | pondlife | ddalton: 8007 I think should be incorporated into a keyclick option (I started one a while back) |
| 11:30:34 | ddalton | pondlife: what do you mean exactly? |
| 11:30:47 | pondlife | 8012 is good, it should speak everything as displayed |
| 11:31:32 | ddalton | pondlife: do you know what the blanks are? ( the answer to my comment?) |
| 11:33:41 | pondlife | Info screen is: version, buffer size, battery percentage and estimated runtime, disk capacity and disk free space |
| 11:34:18 | pondlife | The voicing should be identical, in the same order |
| 11:34:47 | mirak | Llorean so you see I get the answer to my question |
| 11:34:51 | pondlife | Is the time voiced too? That's on the status bar for sighted users (so could go first). |
| 11:35:23 | mirak | Llorean thank you |
| 11:35:42 | mirak | Llorean I know where to find a fix now |
| 11:37:00 | pondlife | GodEater_: Opinion, please; say your audio buffer is about a third full and the user does something that spins up the disk. Should the buffering thread take the opportunity to fill the buffer? Or should it wait until the buffer is "low" ? |
| 11:37:13 | GodEater_ | it should fill |
| 11:37:17 | Llorean | Agreed |
| 11:37:26 | pondlife | OK, will file a bug |
| 11:37:42 | pondlife | Is loading a plugin enough to spin up the disk (I assume so)? |
| 11:38:08 | Llorean | For 700mb of music, you've got the same total "buffering" time no matter how you divide it up pretty much, but if you can do anything to reduce the number of spinups exclusively for buffering, that should increase battery life a little I'd think. |
| 11:38:19 | Llorean | Especially since I hear the archoses use a ridiculous amount of power to spinup |
| 11:38:20 | ddalton | Pondlife: I am just working on a better version. Give me a minute. Then if it is ok can you commit? Blank options isn't good enough and blind users are probably confused. |
| 11:38:35 | pondlife | ddalton: What is wrong with SVN? |
| 11:39:40 | pixelma | pondlife: my Archos doesn't :P |
| 11:39:59 | pondlife | pixelma: Nor does any target with SVN AFAIK :) |
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| 11:40:57 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 11:40:58 | pixelma | I meant using a lot power to spin up the disk... |
| 11:41:21 | pondlife | Ah, maybe flash needs a different strategy? |
| 11:41:37 | Llorean | Flash, I think, doesn't need a different strategy. |
| 11:41:41 | pondlife | Actually there's no reason not to rebuffer |
| 11:42:31 | Llorean | I remember someone having a ridiculously small buffer on Nano and claiming it didn't show any significant change in battery life. |
| 11:44:28 | ddalton | pondlife: what about svn? I didn't say anything about it did I? |
| 11:44:49 | pondlife | ddalton: I meant, what does the patch actually change? |
| 11:45:02 | pondlife | i.e. What is currently missing? |
| 11:45:07 | amiconn | On flash it would pay off to minimize the amount of data read and written instead of the number of spinups |
| 11:45:45 | pondlife | So only read when buffer low... |
| 11:45:48 | Llorean | amiconn: In terms of buffering isn't the total amount of data read/written fixed? Or are you talking about only buffering the minimum each time (this song, next song)? |
| 11:45:54 | amiconn | But for playback, the amount of data read doesn't change with rebuffering strategy, unless someone causes additonal disk accesses by loading plugins *and* skips back afterwards |
| 11:46:26 | amiconn | Llorean: It's fixed as long as special conditions don't cause extra reloads |
| 11:46:34 | rasher | considering that my sansa screeches when buffering, I'd like if that happened as rarely as possible. |
| 11:46:45 | ddalton | Pondlife: half the items don't speak. |
| 11:46:46 | amiconn | So for simplicity flash targets should use the same strategy as hdd targets |
| 11:47:08 | pondlife | ddalton: Well, they all should. So the patch would be welcome |
| 11:47:27 | Llorean | Can we read more slowly on Sansa? |
| 11:48:48 | | Join AlexC [0] (n=AlexC@dragnet203419686.dragnet.com.au) |
| 11:49:47 | pixelma | rasher: your Sansa screeches when accessing the flash? Mine doesn't but I have a the impression that the overall noise level is higher in Rockbox compared to the OF - hard to ptoof because of the huge difference in volume settings though. Maybe something isn't completely done right yet? |
| 11:50:18 | rasher | pixelma: no idea. I haven't used the of more than a few seconds |
| 11:50:24 | rasher | I could check |
| 11:50:37 | Llorean | pixelma: I'd have to agree. |
| 11:50:52 | Llorean | I'm *almost* sure there's more buffering noise in Rockbox. |
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| 11:51:13 | Llorean | But it may be that the minimum volume in the OF is higher than I normally listen to. |
| 11:51:39 | amiconn | Some measurements would probably tell |
| 11:51:41 | pixelma | definitely the same here |
| 11:52:07 | pixelma | Llorean: I can't hear the buffering but there is already more noise if it just stays in the menu |
| 11:52:19 | Llorean | pixelma: Do you have the wheel light enabled? |
| 11:52:46 | ddalton | pondlife: well no point in my opinion in voicing as the same as the sighted users see. Otherwise we will hear version first. That is not what is wanted. So just speak it in the order I think is good: battery level, time, disk info, multy volume, version and buffer size |
| 11:52:54 | ddalton | pondlife: what do you think? |
| 11:53:01 | Llorean | ddalton: Voice is not just for blind users. |
| 11:53:02 | rasher | An mp3 of silence should allow to test this. |
| 11:53:12 | pixelma | Llorean: well it's a button light (c200) but yes, I have it enabled with a short timeout. But it's on the OF too, coupled with the backlight |
| 11:53:33 | ddalton | I know but you get what im saying. You don't have to speak exactly what's on the screen. It is just a list. As long as you find out the info |
| 11:53:36 | Llorean | pixelma: For me at least, the OF showed about as much noise as Rockbox when LCD + button light are on. |
| 11:53:41 | ddalton | not a menu |
| 11:53:44 | pondlife | ddalton: The order should be the same. Time, version, buffer, ... |
| 11:53:56 | Llorean | ddalton: You should speak things in the order on screen. If you dislike the order, suggest the order change, as you said, it's just a list. |
| 11:53:56 | pondlife | It's confusing for support otherwise. |
| 11:54:05 | pixelma | Llorean: maybe there are differences between e- and c-series |
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| 11:54:10 | Llorean | pixelma: Very possible. |
| 11:54:37 | ddalton | pondlife: we aren't interested in the version. I check it once every 3 months or something. I check the battery level a lot and the time. Not so much the disk free info but a bit. then the version and buffer size are sort of not important. |
| 11:55:05 | pondlife | ddalton: Your patch should only add voicing to the existing screen (in the existing order). A second patch could then change the sequence (for screen and voice). |
| 11:55:35 | ddalton | Pondlife: that's what it does. But it isn't good. You hear version first... |
| 11:55:55 | pondlife | That's what the screen says first |
| 11:56:00 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 11:56:13 | pixelma | ddalton: the version is interesting and important if you want to report a bug for example |
| 11:56:15 | pondlife | Although I suppose battery level and time are on the status bar, so they could be put first |
| 11:56:17 | ddalton | why speak the exact same item that is on the screen? in this case? you hit select it does the same thing on anything |
| 11:56:26 | Llorean | pondlife: In that case they'd have to be put twice. |
| 11:56:50 | pondlife | Right. So time, version, buffer, battery, disk |
| 11:57:10 | Llorean | pondlife: Does that screen display the time separate from the status bar? |
| 11:57:14 | pondlife | No |
| 11:57:21 | | Part mirak |
| 11:57:23 | ddalton | pixelma: come on. How offen do you check that. Yes it is a bit inportant but battery level and stuff should go before it. |
| 11:57:27 | Llorean | Honestly, I'm going to have to say I don't think objects from the status bar should be voiced in that screen. |
| 11:57:38 | Llorean | If the status bar needs voiced, that should be something separate. |
| 11:58:07 | ddalton | stuff like the time and battery level are already voiced in that screen... |
| 11:58:35 | pondlife | Llorean: Time already got added (otherwise I agree with you) |
| 11:58:36 | pixelma | ddalton: I check that more often for version than for battery level (but I'm aware that this is different to you because the battery level is also shown in the statusbar...) |
| 11:58:41 | Llorean | ddalton: Things should be voiced as they're displayed. It creates confusion otherwise, for people who can see and just for general use. What's wrong with simply voicing it as displayed, and then putting in a feature request to re-order the screen? |
| 11:58:54 | pondlife | ddalton: The point is the ordering is a *seperate* issue. |
| 11:59:02 | ddalton | pondlife: hang on |
| 11:59:11 | * | pondlife hangs on |
| 11:59:21 | Llorean | pondlife: As in, SVN already voices time on that screen? |
| 11:59:26 | pondlife | Yes |
| 11:59:34 | Llorean | This is problematic, I think. |
| 11:59:35 | pondlife | We could remove it.... ;p |
| 11:59:48 | * | ddalton Must have started another argument |
| 11:59:53 | * | ddalton He is good at that |
| 11:59:54 | Llorean | I really, really don't like the idea of it voicing things that aren't even necessarily on-screen |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:02 | pondlife | I think we need voiced plugins firstr |
| 12:00:04 | Llorean | Does it at least not voice time if the status bar is disabled? |
| 12:00:09 | pondlife | So clock can be voiced |
| 12:00:15 | pondlife | Not sure, willhcheck |
| 12:00:21 | pondlife | Ah, typing failure |
| 12:01:06 | pondlife | I'm afraid it reads the time regardless :( |
| 12:01:12 | Llorean | Ah, even worse. |
| 12:01:17 | n1s | Llorean: I don't think time is voiced anywhere else so removing it would be bad |
| 12:01:18 | ddalton | half a comment from sdoyon: "have to just ignore what's on the screen and put stuff we want in the order we want." |
| 12:01:27 | pondlife | Best leave it in for now, then when clock is voiced we can sort it out |
| 12:01:29 | ddalton | for the info list in a email he sent me |
| 12:01:31 | Llorean | n1s: The solution then is "create an appropriate place for time to be voiced" |
| 12:01:41 | rasher | pondlife, Llorean: I think it'd make sense to add the clock to the Rockbox info screen anyway |
| 12:01:41 | Llorean | n1s: Even if it's as minor as actually placing a visible display of time on that screen. |
| 12:01:44 | pondlife | ddalton: sdoyan is wrong |
| 12:01:47 | Llorean | rasher: No problem with that |
| 12:01:51 | ddalton | sdoyon knows what he is talking about... |
| 12:01:53 | n1s | Llorean: i guess that's what that screen is to most people |
| 12:01:59 | Llorean | rasher: My problem is with voice not matching screen, not the choice of what is displayed. |
| 12:02:04 | rasher | Llorean: I agree. |
| 12:02:07 | ddalton | pondlife: your wrong :-) |
| 12:02:22 | rasher | I just think the solution should be to add a clock on the screen - not remove the voicing of time |
| 12:02:22 | Llorean | ddalton: No, he is. |
| 12:02:26 | pondlife | The UI is the UI, whether it's seen or voiced |
| 12:02:37 | rasher | Since some users might not have a clock visible anywhere else |
| 12:02:41 | ddalton | what's the problem? where not saying voice 16 db in the sound settings screen when it is on 32 db for example |
| 12:02:59 | Llorean | ddalton: The problem is that the User Interface should be consistent. |
| 12:03:02 | * | JdGordon tihnks the time screen should be more accessable and voie it there, not the info screen |
| 12:03:13 | pondlife | Absolutely |
| 12:03:19 | Llorean | ddalton: There should never be a case where voice speaks something that isn't there, or speaks things in an order that is different from the screen. |
| 12:03:28 | Llorean | ddalton: If the order on the screen is bad, FIX THE ORDER, don't just voice it differently. |
| 12:03:32 | amiconn | JdGordon: What time screen? |
| 12:03:38 | rasher | JdGordon: having a central location for "various sorts of info" is convenient though |
| 12:03:45 | JdGordon | exacrtly.... we dont have one other than the set time/date screen |
| 12:03:46 | rasher | even if there's a slight duplication going on |
| 12:03:46 | pondlife | Maybe time should be on the info screen? |
| 12:03:56 | rasher | pondlife: I think it should |
| 12:04:03 | JdGordon | rasher: it shouldnt be named rockbox info then.. maybe just info? |
| 12:04:16 | pondlife | Yes |
| 12:04:16 | rasher | Don't see why |
| 12:04:24 | rasher | The battery isn't part of rockbox either |
| 12:04:27 | pixelma | ddalton: and I use voice often even though I'm not blind if voice speeks something else than I can see... |
| 12:04:28 | pondlife | Disk space left isn't really rockbox info |
| 12:04:39 | pondlife | I use voice whenever I'm driving |
| 12:04:39 | rasher | Pretty much only version is really rockbox info |
| 12:04:52 | pondlife | I want the UI to be as I remembered it |
| 12:05:00 | JdGordon | ok, then we add time/date to the info screen? |
| 12:05:03 | pondlife | Yep |
| 12:05:23 | JdGordon | the yeps have it! |
| 12:05:27 | pondlife | It makes sense to put it first too (if noone objects) |
| 12:05:57 | JdGordon | yeah, time, date, svn build, gap, battery, gap, disk space |
| 12:06:31 | n1s | The only thing about that screen that annoys me is when I accidentally push the select button and it starts scanning the disk, urgh |
| 12:06:37 | pondlife | JdGordon: Why does the info list have a selection bar? |
| 12:06:48 | JdGordon | because you have voice enabled |
| 12:06:56 | JdGordon | you cant hide the bar and talk the selection |
| 12:07:12 | JdGordon | when the bar is hidden selection doesnt act like it does with it visile |
| 12:07:17 | JdGordon | visible* |
| 12:07:33 | pondlife | The bar shouldn't go into the gaps... |
| 12:07:37 | n1s | or maybe that "feature" got lost in the list conversion :-) |
| 12:07:40 | | Quit ddalton (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 12:07:51 | pondlife | It should go from version straight to buffer for example, no? |
| 12:07:52 | Llorean | n1s: Unfortunately, it's necessary considering how often Windows apparently messes up remaining disk space. |
| 12:08:06 | | Join ddalton [0] (n=Daniel@203-214-76-97.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:08:15 | JdGordon | pondlife: ill have a play and see if that will work |
| 12:08:17 | pondlife | Currently highlighting Version reads the time! |
| 12:08:25 | ddalton | sorry pondlife got disconnected. |
| 12:08:28 | | Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@87.13.120.184) |
| 12:08:34 | ddalton | yes exactly |
| 12:08:36 | Llorean | pondlife: That's even worse. |
| 12:08:49 | n1s | Llorean: i think its nasty to do it that way though like a hidden button press in an info screen... also I don't see the point of that scan very often |
| 12:08:51 | Llorean | A visual cue contradicting the audible cue. |
| 12:08:51 | pondlife | What's worse than whate? |
| 12:08:55 | ddalton | so why don't you agree with sdoyon? what is there that confuses users? |
| 12:08:56 | | Join mrkiko [0] (n=mrkiko@host177-100-static.32-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:08:56 | pondlife | Ah, yes |
| 12:08:58 | pixelma | pondlife: is your voice file up to date? |
| 12:09:01 | pondlife | It's buggy at the momen |
| 12:09:05 | pondlife | Yes-ish |
| 12:09:22 | pondlife | Maybe not |
| 12:09:23 | Llorean | ddalton: The whole point of the voice UI is that it Voices the UI. By very definition it's supposed to read what is on screen. |
| 12:09:36 | Llorean | ddalton: You're going contrary to what it's *supposed* to do. |
| 12:09:42 | * | pondlife builds a voice file |
| 12:09:51 | Llorean | n1s: Agreed, there should probably just be a debug option for "Scan Disk" |
| 12:10:13 | Llorean | n1s: Except it may be necessary to have a real function for it, since it'll be useful even in "release" builds should one ever happen |
| 12:10:31 | ddalton | Llorean: 1. do you use voice? 2. If sdoyon is the maintainer why is he saying this? The info screen is different to the rest of rb |
| 12:10:34 | mrkiko | Hi all! |
| 12:10:45 | Llorean | ddalton: No, the info screen is part of RB. |
| 12:10:53 | n1s | Llorean: we could put it in the "system" menu |
| 12:10:58 | Llorean | ddalton: "Maintainer" means "he knows the code" not "he gets to unilaterally decide a new purpose for it" |
| 12:11:02 | ddalton | mrkiko; re your pm pondlife is here |
| 12:11:03 | ddalton | : |
| 12:11:07 | rasher | n1s: better yet, in "disk"? |
| 12:11:22 | * | pondlife hides |
| 12:11:25 | n1s | rasher: right! ;) |
| 12:11:31 | ddalton | well why did JdGordon have the time voiced when it was over version? |
| 12:11:35 | * | GodEater_ throws a table cloth over pondlife |
| 12:11:43 | Llorean | ddalton: As well, yes, I use voice occasionally. As I said, it is not only for blind users, and it needs to take into account some users CAN see the screen, and DO know the order of things on it from sight. |
| 12:11:46 | JdGordon | ddalton: because the time isnt displayed |
| 12:11:47 | * | pondlife impersonates the furniture |
| 12:12:15 | | Quit pepie34 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 12:12:22 | ddalton | I know. But why not voice something different. As long as the user finds out what they want to hear there happy. |
| 12:12:23 | Llorean | ddalton: Having "Time" voiced when "Version" is highlighted is a problem we're already discussion. |
| 12:12:32 | mrkiko | Regarding fs#8003: it doesn't occur without voice as asked by steve |
| 12:12:33 | pixelma | pondlife: outdated voice file? |
| 12:12:34 | Llorean | ddalton: Because not all users ARE happy. |
| 12:12:42 | pondlife | Just updating |
| 12:12:52 | Llorean | ddalton: Why is it BAD to reorder the screen? |
| 12:13:14 | ddalton | well why not voice something different to displayed? what is so bad about this? |
| 12:13:23 | rasher | ddalton: Because it's confusing. |
| 12:13:26 | pondlife | mrkiko: Thanks |
| 12:13:30 | Llorean | ddalton: I've said it several times now: The purpose of the voice UI is to VOICE the UI. As in "read what is on the screen" |
| 12:13:34 | ddalton | well then my hack might work. |
| 12:13:37 | ddalton | re 8003 |
| 12:13:47 | pondlife | mrkiko: Can you put a note on 8003 please? |
| 12:14:13 | JdGordon | anyone got a better order than http://rafb.net/p/8pJ6xK70.html ? |
| 12:14:18 | ddalton | Llorean: So you think it is just as quick to find the free disk space with voice as by looking at the screen? |
| 12:14:42 | ddalton | rasher: its not. |
| 12:15:06 | Llorean | ddalton: No, I don't. But I don't think "to make it faster" is a good reason to randomly decide to make the voice not match the screen on random screens. |
| 12:15:13 | Llorean | ddalton: How often do you need the free disk space *immediately*? |
| 12:15:16 | pixelma | ddalton: sure it is confusing, for people who use voice and can see |
| 12:15:30 | ddalton | as an example? |
| 12:15:34 | ddalton | no ? |
| 12:15:35 | Llorean | ddalton: You do not get to arbitrarily decide what is or is not confusing for other people. |
| 12:16:01 | ddalton | Llorean: really? so voicing the time but not displaying it isn't confusing? |
| 12:16:06 | pondlife | As a list, shouldn't it just voice the selected item? So you could scroll down to disk info or whatever quickly. |
| 12:16:08 | rasher | ddalton: Yes it is! |
| 12:16:14 | * | ddalton Wonders |
| 12:16:19 | rasher | ddalton: which is why we're going to add the time display to the screen.. |
| 12:16:21 | Llorean | ddalton: I said it was confusing SEVERAL TIMES |
| 12:16:24 | ddalton | rasher: no its not :-) |
| 12:16:35 | Llorean | ddalton: Again, YOU do not get to decide what is confusing for other people. |
| 12:16:39 | ddalton | Llorean: so you say its confusing and that's it? |
| 12:16:46 | pondlife | pixelma: It's still broken with a new voice file |
| 12:16:48 | Llorean | I say "It should NEVER voice something that is not displayed" |
| 12:16:49 | ddalton | im not |
| 12:16:56 | Llorean | ddalton: You told rasher it's not. Twice. |
| 12:17:07 | * | ddalton Wonders if Llorean has seen the code... |
| 12:17:08 | pondlife | ddalton: It might be confusing because currently it's rather broken |
| 12:17:13 | rasher | ddalton: If you can see what's on the screen, having something else voiced is confusing. And it is. End of story. |
| 12:17:17 | Llorean | ddalton: What does seeing the code have to do with ti? |
| 12:18:06 | Llorean | ddalton: For one important example why it's confusing: When a voice file is broken, it voices things differently from the screen. It is reasonable then to expect many users to be confused when they encounter a screen voiced differently than it displays, and expect to need new voice files. |
| 12:18:24 | ddalton | surely voicing the time and not displaying it is confusing then? I hear "current time" and nothing is displayed about "current time" that's really confusing is it? |
| 12:18:25 | pixelma | pondlife: yeah, my second thought was it's just voicing numbers, so maybe something else is wrong |
| 12:18:41 | Llorean | ddalton: Stop repeating that. I've told you several times now, that IS confusing. And we've all agreed to it. |
| 12:18:52 | * | ddalton Hasn't |
| 12:19:05 | ddalton | Llorean: do you use voice |
| 12:19:12 | Llorean | ddalton: I've told you yes to that too. |
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| 12:19:44 | * | GodEater_ uses it too |
| 12:19:57 | ddalton | sorry didn't see that. Well usually when a voice file is broken it won't voice one string above or below instead it might say system for say alarm im not sure |
| 12:20:09 | Llorean | ddalton: Or... read something that's not displayed on screen? |
| 12:20:09 | mrkiko | While fs#8003 is active, I think it's better (at least for the H 300 port) to stabilize. Somone has hints for me on how to debug? I can't get the simulator's audio working, right now. |
| 12:20:10 | JdGordon | pondlife: ok, it should skip the gaps now :) |
| 12:20:27 | pondlife | JdGordon: Selecting version voices the time, and the buffer size isn't voiced. The disk stats are swapped too... |
| 12:20:46 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@195.154.159.62) |
| 12:20:47 | | Join Frazz [0] (n=Fraser@thelawsons.plus.com) |
| 12:20:50 | JdGordon | disk stats swapped? |
| 12:21:16 | Llorean | ddalton: Simply put, though, you don't get to decide what the job of the voice UI is. And right now it's not doing its job. I really don't see why you're dead set against reordering the screen. |
| 12:21:30 | Llorean | ddalton: I mean honestly, reordered it could read things in the order you like, and still have voice match the display. |
| 12:21:43 | ddalton | Fine reorder it. But what is the blank option? |
| 12:21:59 | Llorean | It's blank... |
| 12:22:15 | * | ddalton Thinks everyone likes to argue here |
| 12:22:33 | linuxstb | ddalton: No we don't... ;) |
| 12:22:35 | ddalton | Llorean: what's the point of that? Just to add some confusion? |
| 12:22:43 | JdGordon | linuxstb: yes we do! |
| 12:22:52 | * | mrkiko likes confusion :) |
| 12:22:53 | JdGordon | ddalton: it makes it easier to read |
| 12:23:00 | * | ddalton Agrees with JdGordon for a change :-) |
| 12:23:27 | Llorean | They do make it easier to read. I don't see why you're asking, though. |
| 12:23:58 | ddalton | hey being blind and coming a cross a blank entry like that isn't good. Very very confusing for those blind users that can't code. |
| 12:24:02 | ddalton | or understand it |
| 12:24:39 | Llorean | Then come up with a solution. |
| 12:24:47 | ddalton | Llorean: well can we get rid of it? |
| 12:24:48 | mrkiko | May be we can add "Blank" to the voice file |
| 12:24:58 | GodEater_ | or just get the selection bar to jump it? |
| 12:24:59 | ddalton | so we can stop some confusion for the blind users! |
| 12:25:01 | Llorean | ddalton: We could get rid of it. We could add a descriptive voice. |
| 12:25:07 | ddalton | or the voice users! |
| 12:25:14 | Llorean | Or we could just have the selection bar skip blank lines. |
| 12:25:25 | ddalton | what do you mean the voice says "blank"? |
| 12:25:38 | rasher | Llorean: that sounds like the right solution |
| 12:25:48 | Llorean | rasher: GodEater_ suggested to it, but it's the most ideal |
| 12:26:20 | mrkiko | ddalton: when you hit a blank entry the voice may say for example "blank entry" |
| 12:26:40 | ddalton | mrkiko: pointless for a voice user. |
| 12:26:44 | ddalton | so just skip it. |
| 12:26:46 | ddalton | maybe... |
| 12:27:20 | | Join advcomp2019_ [0] (n=advcomp2@66.172.231.192) |
| 12:27:30 | mrkiko | ddalton: ok, we're blind and should try to adapt the project to our needs. But I don't like being invasive: if they wanted to have this blank entry, then ok, they should have it :) |
| 12:28:06 | ddalton | mrkiko: yes of course. Then I might as well just skip it on a press of down or up |
| 12:28:21 | mrkiko | ddalton: infact |
| 12:28:27 | pixelma | I don't see why we would need selectable blank entries at all |
| 12:28:34 | mrkiko | ddalton: it may confuse us if the voice say nothing but if the voice notifies that |
| 12:28:38 | mrkiko | ... no problems |
| 12:28:41 | * | karashata thinks skipping blank entries would be a smart idea |
| 12:29:01 | Llorean | pixelma: I think the reason we have them is more "there's not a good way to skip them in lists yet" |
| 12:29:02 | mrkiko | skipping blank entries is another good idea |
| 12:29:27 | Llorean | pixelma: I seem to remember talk of skipping the spacers in the text viewer menu, for example. |
| 12:29:30 | mrkiko | How many blind users of rockbox here? |
| 12:29:38 | mrkiko | (it's a curiosity, not regarding this argument) |
| 12:29:40 | | Join Isolinear [0] (n=A@c-76-105-254-119.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 12:29:43 | ddalton | mrkiko: im one of them |
| 12:29:55 | mrkiko | So we are 2 ... |
| 12:30:01 | ddalton | yes... |
| 12:30:03 | mrkiko | :) |
| 12:30:11 | | Quit CaptainSquid (Remote closed the connection) |
| 12:30:16 | karashata | I gotta ask, though... why is the info screen even a selectable list in the first place? |
| 12:30:20 | ddalton | mrkiko: did you get my pm? |
| 12:30:22 | pixelma | Llorean: yes, I remember that one too, and I don't like them there too. |
| 12:30:36 | ddalton | to find info quicker with the voice. |
| 12:30:44 | ddalton | Not successful yet... |
| 12:30:51 | karashata | ahh, okay |
| 12:31:00 | karashata | that makes sense then |
| 12:31:12 | mrkiko | ddalton: my brain knows PM == power management only. |
| 12:31:39 | * | ddalton Forgets about the info screen. and works on something else |
| 12:32:09 | ddalton | mrkiko: private message on irc |
| 12:32:17 | mrkiko | ah... |
| 12:32:26 | ddalton | did you get it? |
| 12:33:35 | ddalton | don't worry... |
| 12:35:26 | pondlife | Erm, did no-one notice "(11:19:55 AM) JdGordon: pondlife: ok, it should skip the gaps now :)" ? |
| 12:36:08 | GodEater_ | pondlife: I noticed it but had no idea what JdGordon was referring to |
| 12:36:17 | pondlife | The blank entries I think |
| 12:36:20 | mrkiko | ddalton: yes, i got the PM... |
| 12:36:27 | pondlife | Sorry was away for a bit |
| 12:36:27 | JdGordon | yes, blank entries |
| 12:36:27 | mrkiko | ddalton: but I've not loaded the noisyquery irssi script |
| 12:36:31 | mrkiko | and so it didn't warn me. |
| 12:36:34 | mrkiko | *warn* |
| 12:36:51 | ddalton | mrkiko: what's the answer |
| 12:37:00 | * | ddalton Wonders if he will be kicked |
| 12:37:19 | mrkiko | ddalton.... wait |
| 12:37:42 | pondlife | JdGordon: Disk capaicity is voiced as free disk space. Free disk space isn't voiced at all. |
| 12:37:54 | JdGordon | ok |
| 12:39:07 | | Join The-Compiler [0] (i=The-Comp@135-126.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 12:39:11 | The-Compiler | Hi |
| 12:39:37 | kugel | hi |
| 12:40:55 | The-Compiler | I need a picture showing a Sansa c200 running Rockbox or showing the Rockbox-logo. Something like http://www.rockbox-themes.org/images/c200-small.png in big (yes, the filename ends with small, but there isn't any c200.png or c200-big.png) |
| 12:41:39 | Llorean | The-Compiler: I'd imagine there's an .svg in the source for the manual? |
| 12:42:35 | n1s | The-Compiler: if the button texts donesn't matter you can use this http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansac200/rockbox_interface/images/c200-front.png straight from the manual |
| 12:42:46 | pixelma | The-Compiler: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/manual/rockbox_interface/images/ |
| 12:42:59 | The-Compiler | I need one without the button texts |
| 12:43:16 | Llorean | If you take the svg from the manual, it's very easy to remove the button texts. |
| 12:43:29 | pixelma | it's a drawn one not a photo. You can open the svg and delete the text layer |
| 12:43:35 | n1s | man that c200 has a lot of buttons |
| 12:43:49 | | Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 12:44:17 | The-Compiler | ok, i'll try it, thanks |
| 12:44:22 | pixelma | n1s: yeah, still not easy to find a proper keymap for the virtual keyboard for example... :\ |
| 12:45:49 | ddalton | mrkiko: BTW did you post a comment to fly spray? |
| 12:45:57 | n1s | pixelma: what do you use as accept action in that screen? |
| 12:46:20 | pixelma | currently it's volume up or down |
| 12:46:53 | Llorean | It seems like the vkeyboard would only need six buttons. |
| 12:47:00 | pixelma | I should really put my two new version up in the tracker for discussion |
| 12:47:01 | Llorean | Up, down, left, right, backspace, and select. |
| 12:47:28 | JdGordon | can I put the date as dayname day monthname year instead of dayname year monthname date? |
| 12:47:54 | pondlife | What does the time/date screen display? |
| 12:48:04 | * | JdGordon prefers "Wed 24 Oct 2007" over "Wed 2007 Oct 24" |
| 12:48:12 | JdGordon | the time/date screen does the latter |
| 12:48:19 | pixelma | Llorean: not when you don't use line edit mode but until now I thought it's a waste to not make use of that much buttons. With line edit mode you wouldn't even need a separate backspace |
| 12:48:23 | pondlife | Year/month/day |
| 12:48:55 | * | pondlife hates to say it but fears we need a date format option .. :/ |
| 12:49:08 | JdGordon | not gonna happen! |
| 12:49:11 | Llorean | pixelma: How do you get away with dropping backspace? Create a virtual keyboard button for it? |
| 12:49:11 | pondlife | :) |
| 12:49:21 | JdGordon | alhough.. maybe it can be added now its actually displayed somehwerre |
| 12:49:25 | * | karashata thinks it would make more sense to order it dayname, monthname, day, year |
| 12:49:48 | * | linuxstb guesses karashata is from the US |
| 12:49:56 | karashata | canada, actually |
| 12:50:03 | pondlife | D/M/Y is more common, no? |
| 12:50:12 | pixelma | Llorean: line edit mode... for backspace and move around the edit line you can "step" on it. Ipods should have it |
| 12:50:12 | pondlife | Or is that just Europe? |
| 12:50:38 | karashata | d/m/y is more common for numbered dates, yes |
| 12:51:06 | pondlife | M/D/Y seems silly to me - where's the sense in .. It's like writing the number 789 as 897 |
| 12:51:08 | linuxstb | All I know is the UK is d/m/y, the US is m/d/y. And now I know Canada is also m/d/y and .au is d/m/y... |
| 12:51:12 | Llorean | pixelma: How do you confirm then? |
| 12:51:23 | karashata | but for partly abbreviated names it makes more sense m/d/y |
| 12:51:29 | Llorean | pixelma: My thinking would be "Select" selects letters, or when you move down to the line, confirms the filename. Backspace then could be universal. |
| 12:52:22 | | Quit pepie34 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 12:52:35 | Llorean | Though there's not a button for backspace on iPods like that, at least. =/ |
| 12:53:11 | pixelma | Llorean: you usually have a different button for confirm or abort. Select is backspace when you are on that line. On Ondio for example "mode" is backspace and "long mode" is accept |
| 12:53:31 | | Join CaptainSquid [0] (n=Miranda@proxy14.netz.sbs.de) |
| 12:53:40 | n1s | pixelma: i would either use long press of select as accept or make a button on the keyboard for it |
| 12:54:10 | Llorean | n1s: I'd rather "move to the filename, and then press select" as accept, in most cases, as it makes it harder to accidentally insert one extra character. |
| 12:54:13 | pixelma | more precise "mode" is backspace on the line or select when over the letters, "long mode" is accept everywhere |
| 12:55:04 | pixelma | I like how it is now |
| 12:55:08 | amiconn | Llorean: I'd rather want accept to be universal (as it currently is) than backspace |
| 12:55:10 | n1s | Llorean: if the normal insert action is on release it should not be a problem, and I think pressing select in line edit mode makes no sense for accepting |
| 12:55:23 | Llorean | n1s: It's not a problem for people whose fingers are steady. |
| 12:55:26 | amiconn | You always need accept to enter something, but you do not always need backspace |
| 12:55:55 | kugel | couldn't there be a shortcut, like rec+select, to accept? |
| 12:56:02 | amiconn | urgh |
| 12:56:20 | Llorean | I have no problem with the way things are now, just saying I personally would have a slightly different preference. |
| 12:56:23 | amiconn | Button combos should only be used if there is no way to get away with short/long presses |
| 12:56:32 | Llorean | Button combos should be avoided, yes. |
| 12:56:39 | * | Llorean can't believe there's now also a double click patch. |
| 12:56:46 | amiconn | Short/long allows one handed operation, button combos do not |
| 12:57:21 | pixelma | kugel: I also don't like button combos and they are also not possible everywhere (on the different targets) and in every combination |
| 12:57:32 | amiconn | Way back before we had short/long presses, some actions on the Player even had 3-button combos :> |
| 12:57:39 | Llorean | Ick |
| 12:57:45 | kugel | ok, I just had this idea |
| 12:58:20 | kugel | but long press is indeed more usable |
| 12:59:01 | Llorean | Anyone want to reject the double click patch? It seems to me it's not a wanted feature, but a) I could be wrong on this one, and b) I have a feeling the author will pester me about it if I close it. |
| 12:59:37 | JdGordon | ok, who's game enough to test the patch out? |
| 12:59:38 | GodEater_ | is that a "please will someone other than me close it?" or a check to see if people agree that it should be closed ? :) |
| 12:59:45 | Llorean | Both |
| 12:59:56 | GodEater_ | well I don't want it either |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:05 | JdGordon | Llorean: I actually like the idea |
| 13:00:09 | Llorean | yegods is one of those "people who think the fact I found problems with their idea means I have something against them personally" |
| 13:00:29 | GodEater_ | what does he use the patch for ? |
| 13:00:35 | Llorean | Seek-mode on iPods. |
| 13:00:42 | GodEater_ | seekmode ? |
| 13:00:46 | GodEater_ | wth is that ? |
| 13:00:59 | Llorean | Double click select, then you can seek to a location in a file by rotating on the wheel |
| 13:01:04 | GodEater_ | ah |
| 13:01:06 | JdGordon | pondlife: ddalton: anyone else: jdgordon.info/rockbox/infoscreen.diff">http://jonno.jdgordon.info/rockbox/infoscreen.diff |
| 13:01:22 | Llorean | It apparently interferes with pretty much any other normal function of the device, assuming you press keys quickly |
| 13:01:28 | * | GodEater_ wonders why that's more useful than holding the ff/rw buttons |
| 13:01:32 | | Quit AlexC (Network is unreachable) |
| 13:01:35 | | Quit mrkiko ("leaving") |
| 13:01:38 | Llorean | GodEater_: People are used to it on iPods. |
| 13:01:45 | GodEater_ | I'm not :) |
| 13:01:50 | Llorean | GodEater_: I wonder why it's more useful than a "seek mode" option in the WPS context menu |
| 13:01:58 | GodEater_ | yeah that too |
| 13:02:13 | GodEater_ | so does his patch include both features ? |
| 13:02:14 | Llorean | The feature doesn't need double click, and it saves maybe at best half a second to double click select rather than "select, up, select" |
| 13:02:23 | JdGordon | I tihnk the feeling is you can get more accurate seeking with the wheel? or faster or something? |
| 13:02:32 | Llorean | GodEater_: Yes and no. There's one patch for double-click on iPod Video, then a second for Nano + seeking mode |
| 13:02:41 | Llorean | JdGordon: What use do you see for double click? |
| 13:02:47 | n1s | my problem with the double click is that someone wanted it on the left and right buttons in wps to do something in which case they would have short, long, short-long, and double which is waay too much IMHO |
| 13:02:47 | GodEater_ | so if we want seeking, we'll have to prune it out |
| 13:03:03 | kugel | imo turning a wheel feels better than holding a button |
| 13:03:05 | Llorean | GodEater_: Or close the task and demand he resubmit according to the guidelines. |
| 13:03:09 | JdGordon | Llorean: that use, and the fact it triples the button count on ever target |
| 13:03:24 | kugel | and it might be indeed faster, when you add the scroll wheel acceleration |
| 13:03:58 | GodEater_ | talking of which, I vote once again to get 7738 commited ;) |
| 13:04:00 | Llorean | JdGordon: Not really. There are many places you'll want to be able to press buttons fast succession anyway. Skipping multiple times, browsing, etc. |
| 13:04:00 | ddalton | what's the link again? JdGordon? |
| 13:04:09 | n1s | IMO its unnecessary ui complication |
| 13:04:15 | JdGordon | jdgordon.info/rockbox/infoscreen.diff">http://jonno.jdgordon.info/rockbox/infoscreen.diff |
| 13:04:42 | Llorean | JdGordon: As far as I can see, any feature you put on it will either A) annoy people who can't press the button fast enough, or B) Annoy someone who wants to be able to make single presses faster. |
| 13:05:00 | GodEater_ | I think those are both good reasons to reject it |
| 13:05:06 | JdGordon | yeah, probably |
| 13:05:17 | Llorean | I do agree it'd add a few more buttons. |
| 13:05:30 | Llorean | But, I think short-long already does that job in the one place it's useful so far, right? |
| 13:05:39 | GodEater_ | yup |
| 13:05:51 | JdGordon | we could add it and make it configurable... |
| 13:05:54 | JdGordon | or just reject it |
| 13:06:15 | Llorean | I'd say reject it, or even "invalid" it, and point out "Rockbox already has a short-long double click equivalent" |
| 13:06:32 | GodEater_ | yep |
| 13:08:02 | ddalton | JdGordon: 1. Have the time and date as the same option. So in the same line |
| 13:08:05 | ddalton | more to come... |
| 13:08:24 | JdGordon | it does that |
| 13:08:33 | * | pixelma is really scared and discouraged by looking at the button action definitions in metronome.c :( |
| 13:08:53 | pondlife | Short-long isn't ideal though |
| 13:08:54 | JdGordon | i get it.. i get it.... pla sucks |
| 13:09:21 | Llorean | pondlife: It's better than double click, though. |
| 13:09:41 | pondlife | I was wondering... maybe it depends on the implementation. |
| 13:09:50 | ddalton | JdGordon: oh ok sorry... so what order? it think it should be bat level time/date free disk space then what ever else version then buffer size... |
| 13:09:50 | Llorean | Double click would interfere with multiple skips, while short long would only interfere with skip then seek, for example |
| 13:09:58 | ddalton | why not voice the time for the blank option? |
| 13:10:04 | pondlife | Currently short/long results in the short action being processed first, right? |
| 13:10:16 | GodEater_ | ddalton: because that would be confusing |
| 13:10:19 | pondlife | i.e. you actually get short action, then short/long action |
| 13:10:21 | pixelma | JdGordon: metronome.c is the worst I've seen so far. Can't really make heads or tails of it, maybe I need to stare longer... |
| 13:10:21 | Llorean | pondlife: But it's only used in a situation where that doesn't matter. |
| 13:10:27 | pondlife | True |
| 13:10:34 | pondlife | Mildly annoying though :) |
| 13:10:40 | Llorean | Fair enough. |
| 13:10:54 | Llorean | But I'd really rather *nothing* depended on timing, anyway |
| 13:10:54 | JdGordon | ddalton: the order isnt being discuessed.. is everything voiced ok?> |
| 13:10:58 | Llorean | I don't even like short-long, honestly |
| 13:10:59 | | Join mrkiko [0] (n=mrkiko@host177-100-static.32-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:11:06 | ddalton | JdGordon: I see a comment that I wrote in there :-) |
| 13:11:09 | Llorean | These are consumer electronics, not videogames |
| 13:11:27 | ddalton | hang on... |
| 13:12:12 | ddalton | I don't think anything will be heard when line 199 is executed |
| 13:12:16 | pixelma | JdGordon: to be fair, I think TiMiD's last additions made it worse |
| 13:12:38 | JdGordon | what was that? |
| 13:12:41 | ddalton | might as well speak the buffer as well. |
| 13:12:47 | pondlife | Of course |
| 13:12:54 | ddalton | so no confusion |
| 13:13:01 | JdGordon | buffer is speaking, i took that from sdoyans patch |
| 13:13:13 | JdGordon | nothing is spealing on my sansa though... maybe a really outdated voice file? |
| 13:13:13 | pondlife | JdGordon: Sorry, still compiling here |
| 13:13:20 | pondlife | Yep |
| 13:13:29 | JdGordon | the [atch i upped doesnt have the buffer talking though |
| 13:13:29 | ddalton | should actually say hour and min now I think about it. people won't be confused |
| 13:13:36 | JdGordon | can someone email me english.voice for the sansa? |
| 13:13:52 | pixelma | http://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtml |
| 13:14:09 | * | JdGordon forgot we had daily voice updates |
| 13:14:10 | JdGordon | cheers |
| 13:14:36 | ddalton | looks pretty good to me. did you apply some of my patch? |
| 13:14:42 | JdGordon | 8012 |
| 13:15:48 | ddalton | JdGordon: I don't want to resync all my stuff but looks like everything will talk accept buffer of course and maybe the date case |
| 13:15:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:16:00 | pondlife | Buffer should talk |
| 13:16:12 | ddalton | really? |
| 13:16:16 | ddalton | maybe I missed something |
| 13:16:22 | pondlife | I mean, it ought to |
| 13:16:32 | pondlife | I've not tested any code yet ;) |
| 13:17:29 | ddalton | it should but won't with the current patch. |
| 13:18:41 | | Quit qweru ("moo") |
| 13:19:09 | JdGordon | its not talking for some reason :') |
| 13:19:11 | JdGordon | :'( even |
| 13:19:22 | ddalton | what isn't? |
| 13:19:31 | JdGordon | that bloody screen |
| 13:19:41 | ddalton | the whole thing? |
| 13:19:42 | pondlife | I'm just building a fresh voice file |
| 13:20:59 | pixelma | JdGordon: he changed the plugin to multiscreen and the controls are now differently (new to me was that you need to start "playing" the beat instead of just let go of the tapping. And the code added in r14051 looks messy and it's easy to get conflicting definitions |
| 13:21:35 | JdGordon | ah ok |
| 13:24:46 | pondlife | JdGordon: The bar is now skipping the blank lines nicely, but no voice at all... same as you're seeing, right? |
| 13:24:53 | JdGordon | yeah |
| 13:24:57 | mrkiko | What plugins does rockbox load by default? |
| 13:25:01 | JdGordon | is it running off the end of the list? |
| 13:25:12 | pondlife | No |
| 13:25:18 | pondlife | It wraps as I'd expect |
| 13:25:25 | JdGordon | which target? |
| 13:25:28 | pondlife | i.e Free disk space -> version |
| 13:25:31 | pondlife | H300 sim |
| 13:25:39 | JdGordon | ah! no hotswap |
| 13:25:50 | * | JdGordon thought the bug was elsewhere |
| 13:26:38 | ddalton | mrkiko: lots why? |
| 13:26:47 | Llorean | ddalton: Not quite true. |
| 13:26:48 | pondlife | JdGordon: Where's the info screen code? |
| 13:27:03 | Llorean | mrkiko: Rockbox doesn't load *any* plugins by default, but when you install it several are on disk. |
| 13:27:04 | ddalton | Llorean: what is true then? |
| 13:27:07 | JdGordon | menus/main_menu.c |
| 13:27:11 | * | JdGordon wants to move it |
| 13:27:14 | Llorean | ddalton: No plugins are loaded into memory until you run them. |
| 13:27:29 | Llorean | At which point only one plugin is ever loaded at once. |
| 13:27:29 | ddalton | well that come with rockbox I thought was the question sorry |
| 13:27:31 | mrkiko | ok |
| 13:27:33 | mrkiko | I understood |
| 13:27:52 | ddalton | arguements start quickly here :-) |
| 13:27:56 | mrkiko | Llorean: thank you |
| 13:27:57 | ddalton | nearly another one |
| 13:28:30 | * | karashata thinks some people are way too picky about other people being slightly less technical about how they refer to things... |
| 13:29:00 | Llorean | karashata: And if someone had thought Rockbox loads all the plugins at once, we'd start getting feature requests for "not loading all the plugins to have more buffer for audio" again. |
| 13:29:12 | pondlife | It has happened :) |
| 13:29:14 | Llorean | It's rather important that people are told the truth... |
| 13:29:16 | | Quit maddler (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 13:29:39 | mrkiko | hey guys: It was my fault |
| 13:29:45 | karashata | ahh, that is true, and you'd expect most people in this channel would know the difference between a plugin being installed vs. a plugin being loaded |
| 13:29:46 | mrkiko | I misused the "load" term |
| 13:30:19 | mrkiko | but I referred to "load in memory" |
| 13:30:23 | mrkiko | not "on disk" |
| 13:30:25 | Llorean | mrkiko: Which is the proper use. |
| 13:30:29 | Llorean | "in memory" that is. |
| 13:30:49 | JdGordon | pondlife: i dunno why its not voicing... ddalton was that screen ever voicing correctly? |
| 13:30:57 | pondlife | JdGordon: For some reason it keeps going back into info_speak_item |
| 13:31:00 | ddalton | what one? |
| 13:31:05 | pondlife | It never gives itself time to talk |
| 13:31:13 | JdGordon | the info screen.... the one we have been tlakign abot for the last hour |
| 13:31:35 | pondlife | Probably related to the time update |
| 13:31:40 | ddalton | JdGordon: I stopped listening after a while. Got board. Yes it di. Ill try it later if I get time |
| 13:31:46 | ddalton | yes it did |
| 13:32:26 | pondlife | JdGordon: Where's the code that refreshes the time? |
| 13:32:43 | ddalton | is there a call to get_yime? |
| 13:32:46 | ddalton | time |
| 13:32:51 | JdGordon | yes |
| 13:32:57 | JdGordon | get_time sholdnt mangle the voice though |
| 13:33:27 | ddalton | JdGordon: I will have to test tomorrow. |
| 13:33:34 | mrkiko | JdGordon: are you trying to resolve 8003? |
| 13:33:43 | pondlife | mrkiko: No |
| 13:33:44 | ddalton | im up at 6 30 so that is when I can tell you |
| 13:33:47 | * | mrkiko forgot to type fs# |
| 13:35:26 | JdGordon | beer n pool time |
| 13:35:29 | ddalton | JdGordon: what's the link and I will test |
| 13:35:49 | JdGordon | ddalton: im sure your client can backtrace the convo |
| 13:36:06 | ddalton | it can but takes for ever... |
| 13:36:13 | pixelma | JdGordon: metronome.c defines a combination of 2 for some targets even 3 contexts now... IIUC |
| 13:36:26 | JdGordon | pixelma: feel like rewriting it :) |
| 13:36:44 | JdGordon | pondlife: ddalton: jdgordon.info/rockbox/infoscreen.diff">http://jonno.jdgordon.info/rockbox/infoscreen.diff im heading out, but if you can figure out why its not talking it would be good |
| 13:36:47 | * | JdGordon gone |
| 13:39:59 | ddalton | can't get it test later |
| 13:40:55 | mrkiko | ddalton: what is the name of the braille display you're using? |
| 13:49:15 | | Join Gio [0] (n=giovanni@mtg91-2-82-229-227-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:51:36 | mrkiko | hi gio :) |
| 13:51:45 | Gio | hi mrkiko |
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| 14:00 |
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| 14:08:17 | | Part mrkiko ("RETURNING IN MY OWN WORLD!") |
| 14:11:10 | amiconn | linuxstb: around? |
| 14:11:32 | linuxstb | Yes |
| 14:12:47 | amiconn | Do you know whether it's important that the ape filters use int16_t? |
| 14:13:10 | amiconn | If we could go int32_t for arm, this would allow further savings for arm7 |
| 14:13:45 | amiconn | It would be neutral for arm9 and higher - and arm9 could use the arm7 asm then because that'd also be neutral |
| 14:14:22 | amiconn | (the int16_t asm optimised for arm7 would *slow down* arm9 and higher) |
| 14:17:24 | linuxstb | I don't know, we would have to test it. |
| 14:22:51 | pondlife | JdGordon: Hmm, you closed #8012? |
| 14:23:07 | pondlife | I'll reopen with a more talkative patch |
| 14:24:12 | Gio | bye |
| 14:24:14 | | Part Gio ("Konversation terminated!") |
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| 14:27:13 | pondlife | JdGordon: OK, it's up at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8012 |
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| 14:32:58 | pondlife | JdGordon: Oops, sorry - committed, but didn't give you credit. |
| 14:33:18 | pondlife | Let me know if there should be any changes to CREDITS too. |
| 14:33:41 | pondlife | Back in a bit. |
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| 14:38:35 | LinusN | pondlife: my mixed-case identifier alarm triggered: InfoScreenOrder |
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| 14:48:49 | * | JdGordon back |
| 14:49:32 | JdGordon | LinusN: thats my code.. its not actually used anywhere so didnt put much effort into the name |
| 14:51:34 | JdGordon | pondlife: im happy to not get credit... you get the rap fr the red delta instead of me :D |
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| 14:53:06 | pondlife | JdGordon: Doh! |
| 14:53:16 | pondlife | Can you shrink it at all? |
| 14:53:31 | JdGordon | not really |
| 14:54:03 | pondlife | Much bigger delta than I'd have expected :/ |
| 14:54:07 | linuxstb | JdGordon: What isn't being used? The enum seems to be used, with mixed-case values... |
| 14:55:13 | JdGordon | wait.. whats wrong with mixed-cased values? (what are mixed-cased values?) |
| 14:55:34 | pondlife | We avoid CamelCase |
| 14:56:50 | GodEater_ | and hungarian notatino |
| 14:56:51 | JdGordon | hmm.. /me forgot about that.. I like CC for enum values |
| 14:56:55 | GodEater_ | notation too |
| 14:57:07 | pondlife | "Variables and function names should be all lower case." from CONTRIBUTING |
| 14:57:20 | JdGordon | hahah sif read CONTRIBUTING :d |
| 14:57:35 | JdGordon | I dont tinhk anyone bakcs hungarian anymore do they? |
| 14:57:44 | GodEater_ | except M$ :) |
| 14:58:02 | JdGordon | no, even they dropped it, I read a c# book and they said MS dropped it also |
| 14:58:07 | pondlife | JdGordon: If you fix it, you get to look like the good guy to my bad guy. |
| 14:58:30 | * | JdGordon needs to sober up a bit before doing any commiting |
| 14:59:36 | pondlife | Ah, your SVN has a breath pipe attached too? |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:36 | JdGordon | condition of access im afraid :'( |
| 15:01:39 | pondlife | Why did you move that stuff out of screens.c, btw? |
| 15:01:51 | JdGordon | which stuff? |
| 15:02:01 | pondlife | http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/screens.c?r1=15283&r2=15284 |
| 15:02:03 | JdGordon | the 2 arrays? |
| 15:02:30 | JdGordon | because they were only for bitmap lcd in screens.c, whereas in main_menu.c they are for all rtc |
| 15:02:52 | JdGordon | you forgot to fix bjorns (c) notice... |
| 15:03:07 | * | JdGordon wathcing some tv.. back in 45 |
| 15:03:17 | pondlife | I just committed your patch... :) |
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| 15:15:51 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:20:16 | preglow | my, our resampler sounds crap with 8khz files |
| 15:20:30 | scorche | BoS |
| 15:21:07 | preglow | not far from it |
| 15:21:44 | preglow | BoSampler |
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| 15:25:50 | * | preglow has a stupid bug in his code |
| 15:28:44 | LinusN | really? wow! |
| 15:31:10 | preglow | yeah, this is quite a shock to me |
| 15:31:59 | LinusN | i'm glad that never happens to me |
| 15:34:20 | GodEater_ | you kids.... |
| 15:37:51 | preglow | LinusN: didn't you do some emac work on binutils? |
| 15:38:03 | LinusN | yes i did |
| 15:38:15 | * | Zagor just found out I can send 16 KB packets to the usb controller. whopee! |
| 15:38:22 | preglow | it looks like msac.w with parallel load is broken, would you be able to either check it out or give me some pointers? |
| 15:38:32 | Zagor | that ought to spice things up a bit |
| 15:38:44 | * | preglow looks forward to the next transfer speed measurement... |
| 15:38:47 | LinusN | preglow: all i did was add a few register names, never messed with the encoding |
| 15:38:52 | preglow | LinusN: ah, right |
| 15:39:57 | markun | Zagor: what's still missing from the usb code? |
| 15:39:58 | preglow | would any of you guys know if there exists any other widespread calling conventions than the usual ones for m68k and coldfire? |
| 15:40:01 | Zagor | preglow: ...and then I can link a whole bunch of 16-kb transfers together (as many as the ram can hold) and the controller follows the link automatically. that ought to max it out pretty good. |
| 15:41:03 | Zagor | markun: lots. I'm still in the test-code phase. my optimism the first couple of days was a bit naive :) |
| 15:41:05 | preglow | Zagor: will that also eat 16 kb of iram for the data? |
| 15:41:17 | Zagor | preglow: no, I use dram |
| 15:41:23 | preglow | oh, i thought you had to use iram |
| 15:41:24 | Zagor | in fact I plan to use the mp3 buffer |
| 15:41:25 | preglow | woopee, then |
| 15:41:52 | Zagor | no, it just has to be uncached. |
| 15:43:08 | petur | aha, so only the structs need to be in iram then? |
| 15:43:48 | Zagor | no nothing needs to be in iram, it just needs to be uncached |
| 15:43:59 | petur | oh |
| 15:44:32 | linuxstb | Zagor: Is CPU speed very important with regards to transfer speed? I mean will Rockbox need to boost the CPU whilst in disk mode? |
| 15:45:48 | Zagor | linuxstb: I don't think so. the cpu only acts as a middleman doing small stuff like setting up transfer descriptors. the big work is done by the drive/flashcard and the intelligent usb controller. |
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| 15:47:15 | Zagor | of course faster cpu might result in slightly faster disk access, which might improve total throughput. but I think it's far from necessary |
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| 15:54:20 | pondlife | LinusN: Hope that's better... |
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| 16:00 |
| 16:03:44 | | Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 16:04:07 | Nico_P | pondlife: hi |
| 16:04:07 | | Join scorche|w [0] (n=8dc5049d@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 16:04:12 | pondlife | Hi Nico_P |
| 16:04:35 | pondlife | I've not found many problems :) |
| 16:04:43 | Nico_P | I've seen you've had rebuffering issues |
| 16:05:11 | pondlife | Only that it no longer uses the ata callback, |
| 16:05:41 | pondlife | So it doesn't notice an unrelated spinup |
| 16:05:59 | Nico_P | well hopefully it wstill behaves the same, but doesn't wait as long before filling |
| 16:06:19 | Nico_P | it should notice any spinups |
| 16:06:32 | pondlife | No, it never buffers unless it's low on data |
| 16:06:42 | pondlife | Try the recipe I put on the wiki |
| 16:07:04 | | Join bluebrother [0] (i=GweZxw09@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) |
| 16:07:09 | Nico_P | I find that very suprising. I've seen it rebuffer several times on my gigeabeat |
| 16:07:34 | Nico_P | I'll check again |
| 16:07:40 | pondlife | On H300, maybe the ATA status code is a bit faulty? |
| 16:07:48 | pondlife | And wasn't used much until now? |
| 16:08:16 | pondlife | I assume it's intended to rebuffer whenever the disk is in use? |
| 16:08:29 | Nico_P | yes |
| 16:09:03 | Nico_P | the commit I did to replace the callback wasn't supposed to change that behaviour, but maybe I made a mistake somewhere |
| 16:09:27 | pondlife | You need an early callback really |
| 16:09:35 | pondlife | ata_spinup_callback |
| 16:09:38 | Nico_P | yes, that would be the best |
| 16:10:11 | Nico_P | or I could chain buffering request in some wya, but I like that idea less |
| 16:11:12 | Nico_P | did you see the commit related to the conf_ vars? |
| 16:11:33 | LinusN | pondlife: much better :-) |
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| 16:12:42 | | Join KiOui [0] (n=yan@jem75-3-82-236-90-21.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:13:06 | KiOui | Hi there: I think I found why the Rockbox UI sometimes crash on iPods |
| 16:14:23 | KiOui | It seems that filename length is part of the bug. I tried to play a quite long playlist (more than 6 hours) with short filenames (that fits into the screen) and it works quite well. |
| 16:15:13 | Nico_P | argh I can't exit the properties screen :/ |
| 16:15:29 | KiOui | But if there is a long filename in it, it seems to lock. The key is still semi-handled because the LCD lights up. But no track change / volume / menu / ... |
| 16:16:09 | linuxstb | How long is the long filename, and does it have any non-ASCII characters? |
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| 16:18:36 | KiOui | linuxstb: No idea of the length because I'm blind and unable to count characters. But yes it shas non-ASCIII chars |
| 16:19:07 | Nico_P | pondlife: I know why we don't quite agree on the bug |
| 16:21:23 | pondlife | ? |
| 16:21:37 | Nico_P | you have several tracks buffered, right? |
| 16:21:51 | pondlife | Probably, yes |
| 16:22:09 | pondlife | I'm just saying "one third useful" |
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| 16:22:41 | Nico_P | what's happening (probably exactly like before) is that even though only one third is useful, the buffer is still full. fill_buffer() gets called but can't do anything |
| 16:23:02 | Nico_P | what we *could* do is call the low buffer callback to ask the audio thread for new tracks |
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| 16:29:30 | pondlife | Nico_P: We should fill the buffer based on useful data only |
| 16:29:31 | Nico_P | pondlife: if you use a track that's bigger than the buffer you'll see rebuffering |
| 16:29:55 | Nico_P | yeah probably. then the callbacks have to be called on low buffer |
| 16:30:14 | pondlife | Which callbacks? The unbuffer ones? |
| 16:30:44 | Nico_P | no, the "low buffer" ones, which should probably renamed to "request data" |
| 16:30:54 | pondlife | Ah, yes. |
| 16:31:08 | Nico_P | the difference with before is probably that playback.c had an idle ata callback to add new files and I removed that and replaced it with a low buffer callback |
| 16:31:09 | pondlife | Aren't they called on low buffer anyway? |
| 16:31:09 | KiOui | linuxstb: Do you think non-ASCII chars may cause the bug? |
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| 16:31:46 | Nico_P | pondlife: they're called on low buffer only. they should also be called when the useful level is below the high watermark and the disk is spinning |
| 16:32:03 | Nico_P | it's a trvial change |
| 16:32:11 | pondlife | Well, whenever we want to fill |
| 16:32:26 | pondlife | I'd hope it would come out in the wash.. |
| 16:32:35 | pondlife | Did you see the auto_change_dir bug? |
| 16:32:41 | pondlife | i.e. did you repro it? |
| 16:32:59 | | Quit desowin ("use linux") |
| 16:32:59 | Nico_P | ah no, forgot about it |
| 16:33:02 | linuxstb | KiOui: All I know is that non-ASCII chars take up more bytes than ASCII (Rockbox uses utf-8 internally), so if there is a problem with long filenames, it will be easier to hit the limit with non-ASCII chars. I don't know what, if any, checks Rockbox does on filename lengths. |
| 16:33:22 | Nico_P | pondlife: did you see the commit for the conf_* vars? |
| 16:33:27 | pondlife | Yes |
| 16:33:36 | Nico_P | how do you like it? |
| 16:33:37 | pondlife | I'm still not sure how they work! |
| 16:34:14 | pondlife | Not much |
| 16:34:32 | | Quit bluebrother ("bbl") |
| 16:34:41 | pondlife | I probably don't understand, but I thought those were codec requirements, and hence should only affect playback.c, not buffering.c.. |
| 16:34:45 | KiOui | linuxstb: Do you have an idea of max filenames lengths in Rockbox? |
| 16:34:53 | KiOui | Is it target-dependant? |
| 16:35:02 | pondlife | i.e. They affect the flow of data out of the buffer, not the reading from disk.. |
| 16:35:04 | JdGordon | 260 chars iircs |
| 16:35:15 | Nico_P | pondlife: they give the codec control over how the buffering works |
| 16:35:16 | pondlife | But, like I said, I don't really understand them |
| 16:35:56 | pondlife | What if I am buffering a mixture of SIDs and MP3s, say... |
| 16:35:57 | Nico_P | the codec apparently wants to contol the watermark |
| 16:36:15 | Nico_P | yeah I know, but for now I simply translated how they work in SVN (improving it a bit on the way) |
| 16:36:44 | linuxstb | JdGordon: Isn't it 260 bytes, not chars? |
| 16:36:52 | pondlife | Personally, I'd scrap it and see if anyone notices :) |
| 16:37:07 | JdGordon | yeah, 260 bytes, for the whole path string.. not just the filename |
| 16:37:33 | pondlife | Until someone can explain why the codec cares about disk->buffer, rather than buffer->codec.... |
| 16:37:37 | JdGordon | welll... MAX_PATH which is either 260 or 290, cant remember which |
| 16:37:48 | KiOui | JdGordon: I think I'm not reaching the max length |
| 16:38:10 | pondlife | JdGordon: Fixed up your varnames, can you fix up Bagder's (c)... I don't think my editor deals with non-ASCII properly. |
| 16:38:25 | JdGordon | its zagors, and yeah |
| 16:38:30 | pondlife | JdGordon: Ah, yes |
| 16:38:46 | JdGordon | and _my_ var names??? yo commited it :D |
| 16:38:58 | pondlife | Hah, they're my vars now :) |
| 16:39:04 | Nico_P | I'm not sure |
| 16:39:58 | pondlife | It seems wrong to me that playing a SID would affect the buffering of a future playing MP3... |
| 16:40:02 | pondlife | Or whatever |
| 16:40:08 | JdGordon | would anyone have objections to splitting up the different screen codes into a new folder under apps/ (screens maybe?) screens.c is nasty (as is debug_menu.c) and the ino screen shodlnt really be in menus/main_menu.c |
| 16:40:25 | Nico_P | pondlife: I see what you mean, but I'd prefer to take care of that after having committed the main chunk ;) |
| 16:40:34 | pondlife | buffering.c is just like a file preloader.. playback.c should deal with the codec requirements... |
| 16:40:35 | pondlife | OK |
| 16:40:54 | pondlife | Have a look at that auto-dir change case then, I dare you :p |
| 16:41:08 | Nico_P | I will |
| 16:41:32 | Nico_P | I've solved the USB bug too... |
| 16:41:57 | * | Mouser_X listens to a mix of NSFs, SPCs, and MP3s (and other large "streamed" codecs) frequently. |
| 16:42:32 | Mouser_X | How would that effect Rockbox with your new code/buffer stuff? |
| 16:43:18 | GodEater_ | Nico_P: have you been anywhere near the crossfading code yet ? |
| 16:43:33 | Nico_P | GodEater_: very briefly |
| 16:43:47 | GodEater_ | still broken then ? :) |
| 16:43:53 | Nico_P | but playing tracks with crossfade enabled has been no problem for me |
| 16:44:03 | Nico_P | only enabling crossfade during playback fails badly |
| 16:44:10 | GodEater_ | but enabling or disabling it breaks for me |
| 16:44:25 | JdGordon | KiOui: you may have stumbled on the bug where for some unknown reason the list code crashes (?) with long-ish lines.. i tihnk we found the max it could acually display was 160 or so |
| 16:44:34 | JdGordon | but that was ages ago.. I thought it was fixed |
| 16:45:43 | KiOui | JdGordon: I think the bug is the same as reported onto the ipodstatus wiki page (issue with 5.5g models) |
| 16:45:55 | KiOui | The "occasionnal crash" |
| 16:46:16 | pondlife | Is this the voiced list problem? |
| 16:46:24 | pondlife | i.e. #8003 |
| 16:46:40 | KiOui | And it seems to depend on what we're playing: because a specific song makes the bug occur, while another one doesn't |
| 16:47:14 | JdGordon | maybe its a dodgy file then and the codec is dieing? |
| 16:47:30 | KiOui | pondlife: I'm actually using Speech feedback; but don't know if it comes from this or not |
| 16:47:42 | pondlife | IT does seem to be only when speech is enabled |
| 16:48:02 | pondlife | Or so has been reported |
| 16:48:07 | JdGordon | pondlife: did you get voicing working in the info sceen before commiting? |
| 16:48:19 | KiOui | JdGordon: I don't think so, because the file can be played normally. It is like the iPod was in Lockedmode. |
| 16:51:20 | pondlife | JdGordon: Yes |
| 16:51:33 | pondlife | We lost the real-time updating clock etc though |
| 16:51:53 | pondlife | The problem was that you were doing lots of redrawing, so the voice never got started |
| 16:52:15 | JdGordon | ah pl |
| 16:52:17 | JdGordon | ok |
| 16:52:27 | pondlife | The code to skip the gaps was previouosly returning ACTION_REDRAW too often |
| 16:53:45 | JdGordon | barrywardell: you round? |
| 16:54:14 | JdGordon | FUCK :'( |
| 16:54:21 | * | JdGordon is too tired |
| 16:55:15 | | Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@hdp186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 16:55:31 | markun | JdGordon: go to sleep |
| 16:55:46 | JdGordon | gotta recover my sansa first :'( |
| 16:55:54 | barrywardell | JdGordon: yep! |
| 16:55:58 | * | JdGordon accidenrtly wrote the mi4 to the bootloader instead of the .bin |
| 16:56:19 | JdGordon | barrywardell: do i need to do the full recover with e200tool to get it going again? |
| 16:56:59 | barrywardell | you used sansapatcher -bl PP5020.mi4? |
| 16:57:07 | JdGordon | yeah :( |
| 16:57:15 | * | JdGordon makes a point to not that its 1am here |
| 16:57:18 | | Join Rondom [0] (n=Rondom@p57A953B3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:57:23 | JdGordon | note* |
| 16:57:35 | barrywardell | you need to use "e200tool recover BL_SDboardsupported.rom" |
| 16:57:39 | barrywardell | or whatever the file is called |
| 16:57:44 | JdGordon | oh goody |
| 16:57:49 | JdGordon | ok, off to find that file |
| 16:57:58 | barrywardell | then copy over the BL_SDboardsupported.rom to the 16MB disk that appears |
| 16:58:02 | barrywardell | it's on Bagder's site |
| 16:58:47 | barrywardell | JdGordon: http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/mi4.html |
| 16:58:59 | JdGordon | cheers |
| 16:59:09 | | Part LinusN |
| 17:00 |
| 17:01:04 | amiconn | pondlife: Imo the info screen gaps should not exist on low line count screens |
| 17:01:08 | * | JdGordon hates e200tool :'( |
| 17:01:29 | pondlife | IMHO there shouldn't be gaps at all |
| 17:01:32 | JdGordon | pondlife: hehehe, im goign to let you do commits for me more often :) |
| 17:01:33 | amiconn | I didn't try this yet, but on Player they will be plain annoying |
| 17:01:51 | JdGordon | na, the gaps are good.. but yes, on player they are bad |
| 17:01:52 | pondlife | Were they not already there? |
| 17:02:07 | JdGordon | yes, they were always there |
| 17:02:24 | amiconn | I can imagine that the gaps are annoying on other small screens as well, e.g. archos bitmap or the iriver remotes |
| 17:03:06 | amiconn | JdGordon: I don't think they were always there |
| 17:03:09 | pondlife | JdGordon: Go on, scrap them |
| 17:03:24 | barrywardell | JdGordon: but without e200tool, your sansa would be a brick right now. |
| 17:03:44 | JdGordon | true.. but the bloody thing is tining out during the read :'( |
| 17:04:30 | barrywardell | on linux? |
| 17:04:34 | JdGordon | amiconn: pondlife: i wont really be against removing them, but they do make the screen easier to read |
| 17:04:36 | JdGordon | yep |
| 17:04:36 | | Part KiOui |
| 17:05:19 | amiconn | JdGordon: Only if all lines fit without scrolling |
| 17:05:26 | barrywardell | it sometimes takes a couple of tries before it works...maybe we can get Zagor to look at that once he's done adding USB to rockbox :P |
| 17:06:21 | JdGordon | or maybe i just modify the e200rinstaller to fix the bootloader instead? :) |
| 17:06:32 | JdGordon | its a simple write isnt it? |
| 17:06:42 | barrywardell | yeah, just write to the start of the hidden partition |
| 17:06:51 | barrywardell | and include the PPBL header |
| 17:07:18 | barrywardell | which is 0x200 bytes |
| 17:08:11 | pondlife | Looks ok without the gaps |
| 17:10:31 | preglow | argh, i give up |
| 17:12:33 | JdGordon | barrywardell: the ppbl header is 0x200 bytes? or the ppbl section? |
| 17:14:06 | barrywardell | the header. see step 2 and 3 here: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/rbutil/sansapatcher/sansapatcher.c?r1=14756&r2=15108 |
| 17:14:40 | JdGordon | yeah, im looking there |
| 17:14:47 | * | JdGordon is definatly too tired for this :p |
| 17:15:38 | barrywardell | the header is 1 block (0x200 bytes), starting with "PPBL", then little endian length of the bootloader binary, then little endian magic number 0x00010000. the rest of the header is 0's |
| 17:15:54 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:20:00 | JdGordon | bootloader.bin is 100k, too big to send in manufac mode? |
| 17:20:23 | | Join ackbahr [0] (n=ackbahr@d212-152-20-237.cust.tele2.ch) |
| 17:21:04 | pondlife | Hmm, we already assume that the LANG_ constants for months and week day names are continguous and in sequence, so do we really need to look it up...? |
| 17:21:44 | JdGordon | we dont assume that... but it sounds like a valid assumption anyway |
| 17:21:54 | pondlife | We do. |
| 17:22:03 | JdGordon | where? |
| 17:22:05 | pondlife | Not in the info screen, but elsewhere |
| 17:22:28 | JdGordon | ah |
| 17:22:33 | pondlife | Found it? |
| 17:22:35 | barrywardell | BL_SD... is 387K and I sent that fine, so... |
| 17:22:56 | JdGordon | keep getting -71 protocol error |
| 17:22:56 | pondlife | I can't recall, and I've just spread that assumption in an attempt to reduce bin size |
| 17:23:56 | pondlife | Hmm, 200 bytes... |
| 17:24:04 | pondlife | Probably worth it |
| 17:25:23 | | Quit ackbahr (Remote closed the connection) |
| 17:27:08 | barrywardell | JdGordon: I wonder why e200tool works for me but not you? Have you tried a different computer? |
| 17:27:45 | JdGordon | i had trouble last time i needed to recover it also, im goign to give up for now though, ill try my laopt tomoorw |
| 17:28:45 | barrywardell | meanwhile, maybe sansapatcher should be changed to only accep an mi4... |
| 17:29:02 | JdGordon | no... it should be changed to NOT accept mi4 for -bl |
| 17:29:12 | barrywardell | or that |
| 17:29:47 | barrywardell | but if it only accepted the mi4, then we would have the header to validate against |
| 17:32:51 | JdGordon | bah |
| 17:32:52 | JdGordon | gnite |
| 17:32:55 | | Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 17:33:48 | amiconn | pondlife: Simply use that assumption. It is meant to hold. Same goes for several other things, e.g. the voice clips for latin letter, the clips for digits etc |
| 17:33:58 | | Quit J3TC- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:34:44 | pondlife | OK, it's committed |
| 17:35:17 | pondlife | Hope I didn't break the copyright notice again.. |
| 17:36:56 | * | Nico_P whispers unicode |
| 17:37:16 | * | pondlife has a nasty habit of using notepad :( |
| 17:37:47 | Nico_P | eurgh |
| 17:38:32 | Nico_P | though I'm saying unicde because I think the source files should be unicode |
| 17:38:36 | * | scorche|w whispers to pondlife how to make notepad2 the default |
| 17:39:09 | | Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) |
| 17:39:10 | | Join XavierGr_ [0] (n=xavier@ppp66-107.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 17:39:11 | pondlife | I prefer Notetab Lite actually... must put it in my path |
| 17:39:40 | Nico_P | there's a path in windows? |
| 17:39:55 | scorche|w | there |
| 17:39:55 | scorche|w | is |
| 17:40:09 | * | scorche|w threatens CGI:IRC |
| 17:43:43 | pondlife | amiconn: Got rid of the gaps, and saved 200 bytes. hope you like. |
| 17:44:21 | pondlife | OK, back to MoB |
| 17:50:24 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:50:29 | | Quit atsea-32 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:51:42 | * | Nico_P too, back to mob |
| 17:51:48 | Nico_P | I'm having plane problems |
| 17:51:59 | Nico_P | pondlife: it rebuffers now |
| 17:53:33 | | Join alteregoa [0] (n=swdf@217-162-237-216.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:55:24 | Nico_P | pondlife: is it worth changing the callback names? |
| 17:55:35 | | Join Alexandro5 [0] (i=4fb36cb2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-9a31b91bba4dc30b) |
| 17:55:41 | Alexandro5 | ffff |
| 17:57:15 | Alexandro5 | when i enter e200 with rock to Files section it shows all my folders like : .rockbox ,rocks etc. is it bug or normal thing |
| 17:57:35 | barrywardell | that's normal |
| 17:58:18 | Alexandro5 | thanks, one more thing how i know when my battery is full while my device is still connected to computer? |
| 17:58:53 | alteregoa | i fnord a question |
| 17:59:05 | Alexandro5 | btw i'm not at rockbox mode ATM (im chargin battery in normal mode) |
| 17:59:05 | alteregoa | if i use rockbox with 160gb ipod, is it compatible |
| 17:59:19 | alteregoa | i don't know if the new 160gb ipod classic is capable of rockbox |
| 17:59:36 | karashata | alteregoa: it's not |
| 17:59:57 | | Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:21 | scorche|w | alteregoa: you can see all the supported units on the front page |
| 18:00:42 | karashata | and likely won't be, Apple has changed their hardware a bit and seems to have encrypted the firmware... |
| 18:00:47 | Alexandro5 | when im chargin my battery it shows battery is full but when im disconnect it from my computer the battery is almost done... someone help me please? |
| 18:00:53 | Alexandro5 | E200 Device |
| 18:00:54 | alteregoa | yeah i just saw 5.5 |
| 18:01:15 | karashata | the iPod classic is the 6th gen |
| 18:01:34 | scorche|w | alteregoa: did you miss the "not..." part? |
| 18:01:37 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 18:01:50 | karashata | the 5.5 gen is, if I'm not mistaken, the 80 GB iPod video |
| 18:01:56 | barrywardell | Alexandro5: if it says the battery is full, then it has finished charging |
| 18:01:59 | scorche|w | and 30 |
| 18:02:10 | amiconn | karashata: Almost. There are also 30GB 5.5th gens |
| 18:02:19 | * | karashata nods slightly |
| 18:02:20 | karashata | kay |
| 18:02:21 | Alexandro5 | but when i disconnect it the battery is on 10% |
| 18:02:37 | barrywardell | in rockbox? |
| 18:02:42 | Alexandro5 | ya |
| 18:02:54 | | Quit Alexandro5 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 18:03:01 | | Join Alexandro5 [0] (i=4fb36cb2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2954c56cea5295f8) |
| 18:03:06 | barrywardell | I think that still needs to be calibrated in rockbox yet |
| 18:03:19 | alteregoa | so i have to get a ipod 5.5, from wherever |
| 18:03:44 | scorche|w | well, there are other devices than the ipods |
| 18:03:58 | alteregoa | but not compatible with my car stereo |
| 18:04:28 | scorche|w | this is assuming rockbox is too |
| 18:04:51 | alteregoa | yeah, thats why i have to chose rockbox and ipod |
| 18:04:51 | | Quit Alexandro5 (Client Quit) |
| 18:05:49 | | Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@66.172.231.192) |
| 18:06:05 | alteregoa | captain future may help me |
| 18:07:19 | lostlogic | didn't we used to have two preamp settings for replaygain, one for files with tags and one for files without tags? |
| 18:07:27 | lostlogic | If not, do we want such a feature? |
| 18:11:13 | | Join lazka [0] (n=lazka@85-125-222-54.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 18:14:13 | Llorean | lostlogic: Personally, I'd rather merge the EQ precut and the Replaygain Pre-Amp into one. |
| 18:15:16 | Llorean | The whole point of replaygain is to give your files a standard level of reference, a pre-amp for non-replaygained files wouldn't do much good simply because they don't have one, I would think, unless you're just fortunate enough to have a collection that's all about level anyway right? |
| 18:16:08 | | Join roolku [0] (n=roolku@82-41-2-141.cable.ubr01.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:17:16 | roolku | Llorean: the problem comes when you listen to a mix of files with and without replaygain tags. The ones without are significantly louder. |
| 18:17:19 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@copernic-sda.pck.nerim.net) |
| 18:17:26 | | Quit linuxstb (Remote closed the connection) |
| 18:17:27 | Llorean | roolku: Then tag all your files... |
| 18:17:45 | * | roolku would like a pre-cut setting that only effects non-replaygain tracks |
| 18:18:21 | roolku | if you show me how to tag mod, sid and other file formats that are not supported I will |
| 18:19:26 | | Join ToHellWithGA [0] (n=ryan@d16-124.rt2-bras.clm.centurytel.net) |
| 18:19:32 | Llorean | So, if that's your complaint, why not fix the formats? |
| 18:20:36 | roolku | where did you see a complaint? |
| 18:20:36 | lostlogic | Llorean: It just happens sometimes that you miss a file or forget to tag and then the volume is all messed up −− like this fricking morning when papa roach woke me up with his untagged 5db too loud self at 4am :-P |
| 18:21:11 | roolku | also I don't understand what you mean by fix? |
| 18:21:12 | Llorean | roolku: Well, you seem to think it's Rockbox's job to handle the fact that formats don't have sufficient tagging. |
| 18:21:28 | roolku | it is not broken? |
| 18:21:45 | Llorean | Well, it doesn't meet your needs apparently |
| 18:21:51 | Llorean | Since Rockbox needs to code a fix, or so you feel. |
| 18:22:02 | lostlogic | Llorean: it's just a nice feature to say "If I've tagged the music specifically, use the tags and this preamp, otherwise use this other preamp to avoid hearing loss" |
| 18:22:23 | roolku | I certainly think that computers should make life more enjoyable and not harder or unpleasant |
| 18:22:25 | lostlogic | I think foobar2k has such a thing |
| 18:22:54 | Llorean | I just think that the solution to every problem isn't "add another option to Rockbox" |
| 18:23:16 | roolku | I don't see the world in black and white (broken fix) |
| 18:23:20 | amiconn | I thought the preamp was just there to adjust the volume for replaygained tracks |
| 18:23:31 | Llorean | amiconn: It's cumulative with the EQ precut though. |
| 18:23:38 | amiconn | ...and that preamp values is not applied to non-replaygained tracks |
| 18:23:45 | Llorean | I'd rather just have a "Digital Gain" option and be done with it. |
| 18:23:51 | roolku | I see an opportunity to improve things, and since the topic came up I voiced my opinion |
| 18:24:29 | amiconn | So this one option should be enough to level the difference between replaygain tagged and non-tagged tracks |
| 18:24:48 | amiconn | More options is often not an improvement |
| 18:25:00 | Llorean | amiconn: It certainly can, do +6 on replaygained tracked, then lower overall volume. |
| 18:25:05 | lostlogic | amiconn: hmm, you may be right, perhaps I can use the eq precut and a positive gain on the replaygained tracks. |
| 18:25:12 | roolku | Llorean: currently they are enabled/diabled with their respective purpose - how do you handle it when you have a combined value and turn one of the features on/off? |
| 18:25:17 | roolku | disabled |
| 18:25:42 | lostlogic | the problem for me is that the iPod volume doesn't go soft enough −− I use replaygain, -6dBpreamp and lowest volume on my ipod and that's exactly quiet enough for my listening at work. |
| 18:26:03 | Llorean | roolku: Are the features going to turn themselves off, or is the user going to make a conscious decision? If so, do you think they're intelligent enough to adjust the gain too? |
| 18:26:09 | amiconn | Llorean: I can't really test. I don't have a single track with replaygain tags, and no plans to change that. |
| 18:26:11 | | Quit petur ("stkov") |
| 18:26:13 | roolku | amiconn: I would agree, however for some reason it doesn't seem to work as expected. :( I guess I'll have to investigate |
| 18:26:24 | Llorean | lostlogic: Then why not put in -6 in the equalizer, and then +6 in the REplaygain? |
| 18:26:35 | Llorean | lostlogic: You can also replaygain your tracks to a higher level than -89 I believe. |
| 18:26:40 | amiconn | (and I don't use software eq either) |
| 18:27:09 | roolku | Llorean: no need to have a dig at my intelligence :) I am asking for convenince. |
| 18:27:21 | Llorean | roolku: Convenience is not the only consideration to make |
| 18:27:26 | Llorean | People already find our menus too confusing. |
| 18:27:26 | lostlogic | Llorean: I'm going to try that out −− I thought that the preamp was applied to all tracks, not just those with replaygain tags. |
| 18:27:36 | roolku | convenience |
| 18:28:09 | Llorean | lostlogic: I'd prefer if there was just one "Digital Gain" setting, since having two settings that both do essentially the same things (though both conditional upon another feature) leaves it hard to know what's affecting your music for a lot of users. |
| 18:28:40 | Llorean | Personally I wouldn't mind at all if the EQ automatically precut an equal amount to whatever band you set highest. |
| 18:28:54 | lostlogic | Llorean: yeah, but a single digital gain feature is insufficient for all use cases as we've just discussed |
| 18:29:10 | lostlogic | but it sounds like the existing features are sufficient, I just didn't know how to use them. |
| 18:29:13 | Llorean | lostlogic: Only assuming bad tags, and I'm not sure it's Rockbox's job to correct bad tagging. |
| 18:29:18 | lostlogic | not bad tag |
| 18:29:33 | lostlogic | it sometimes happens that you get music from a friend and want to listen but don't know whether it's tagged |
| 18:29:39 | lostlogic | or you rip a new CD and forget to tag it or wahtever |
| 18:29:53 | Llorean | Well, then, "missing tags" |
| 18:29:55 | lostlogic | or you just choose to only replaygain part of your colection |
| 18:29:57 | roolku | lostlogic: did it work for you? I can't seem to decrease the sound output for my mod files with the replaingain pre-cut |
| 18:30:03 | amiconn | Llorean: The auto-precut was already discussed a lot, and the consensus is that we do not want it for eq |
| 18:30:10 | amiconn | s/is/was/ |
| 18:30:20 | Llorean | roolku: What was said was specifically that replaygain preamp will NOT affect non-replaygain files. |
| 18:30:24 | Llorean | amiconn: Why not? |
| 18:30:30 | lostlogic | roolku: what I'm going to try (not now, a bit later) is using eq precut to apply to all files and then replaygain preamp up to match the replaygained files |
| 18:30:35 | | Join atsea-32 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-bde7d80761065d22) |
| 18:31:09 | lostlogic | Llorean: I do agree that getting the replaygain vs. eq settings clarified would be good, but I'm not sure on the right approach at all. |
| 18:31:56 | Llorean | lostlogic: I'd settle for an automatic EQ precut, and then a "Digital Gain" that could be set to "All, RG Only, Non-RG Only" or some such. |
| 18:32:13 | amiconn | Llorean: If your original source is rather quiet, you don't need to precut as much. If you do, you lose SNR |
| 18:32:18 | Llorean | And maybe an option to turn the auto-precut on/off. |
| 18:32:32 | roolku | lostlogic: yes, that is what I had in mind, but I couldn't reduce the volume with the replaygain pre-cut/amp for untagged files the last time I tried |
| 18:32:41 | lostlogic | "automatic" |
| 18:33:05 | lostlogic | roolku: the precut is in eq, not replaygain |
| 18:33:06 | Llorean | roolku: It's been said a few times now, Replaygain preamp will not affect untagged files... |
| 18:33:13 | * | Llorean wonders if he's already on ignore. |
| 18:33:21 | lostlogic | back in 20m |
| 18:34:20 | Llorean | amiconn: I'd just like the options to seem less redundant. Digital Gain seems like something that's not exclusively used with the EQ (and should not be dependent upon its on/off state) |
| 18:34:58 | amiconn | The EQ precut is always applied afaik - so that's your digital gain |
| 18:35:03 | roolku | lostlogic: couldn't remember the name, it's the pre-amp in replygain I meant - just different terms for essentially the same thing |
| 18:35:10 | Llorean | Yes, but it's not labelled or available as such to must people |
| 18:35:26 | amiconn | And replaygain preamp is to adjust the replaygain normalization level vs. untagged files afaiu |
| 18:35:32 | Llorean | Yes, it is. |
| 18:35:58 | amiconn | So it only applies to replaygained files - and you can't keep that functionality with just one digital gain |
| 18:36:05 | Llorean | roolku: One last time: He said EQ Precut is what you want, NOT replaygain preamp |
| 18:36:10 | * | roolku just cranked up the replaygain to maximum with no change in volume (eq off, replaygain on) |
| 18:36:29 | amiconn | So we cannot remove one, but we also don't need more than we currently have |
| 18:36:30 | roolku | the file in question is a mod |
| 18:36:59 | | Join Lakshmi [0] (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/lakshmi) |
| 18:37:10 | amiconn | roolku: So it's not replaygain tagged, and rockbox behaviour is correct |
| 18:39:18 | roolku | I guess so...so I should amplify all my replay gained files to bring them in line with the untaged ones, instead the other way round |
| 18:40:21 | amiconn | exactly |
| 18:40:58 | amiconn | You just need to adjust the replaygain preamp for this while playing a replaygained file |
| 18:43:01 | | Join bluebrother [0] (i=yEqupppb@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) |
| 18:43:01 | | Part Lakshmi |
| 18:43:02 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 18:43:07 | | Join freqmod_nx [0] (n=freqmod@dhcp208-90.ed.ntnu.no) |
| 18:45:59 | | Part pondlife ("Gone") |
| 18:47:34 | roolku | amiconnThe EQ precut is always applied afaik - so that's your digital gain <−−- unfortunately not true, eq must be on for it to be applied |
| 18:47:56 | | Quit lazka (Remote closed the connection) |
| 18:49:11 | | Quit roolku () |
| 18:55:12 | lostlogic | gah, roolku still didn't gather that there were two different settings we were talking about :( |
| 18:55:26 | lostlogic | Llorean: the combination of eq precut and replaygain amp gives me what I need. |
| 18:55:38 | lostlogic | I too would like to see all of those settings moved into one menu somehow |
| 18:56:00 | lostlogic | and then name the eq precut and replaygain preamp as two similarly named things that say "This does all files, this only does replaygain files" |
| 18:56:16 | | Join nomel [0] (i=4782332a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b84be99870fa55f5) |
| 18:56:25 | | Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@m94.net81-66-75.noos.fr) |
| 18:57:20 | nomel | on my c200, i notice that ape has pauses in playback between disk reads (as indicated by the icon)...is this a limitation of the device from read speed or something? |
| 18:57:46 | lostlogic | nomel: during disk reads or between? |
| 18:58:09 | mirak | hi |
| 18:58:15 | mirak | anyone uses ubuntu here ? |
| 18:59:05 | GodEater | nomel: I would imagine that it's because ape is extremely hard work for the cpu in the player to decode |
| 18:59:12 | pixelma | I think ape doesn't play too well on portalplayer devices |
| 18:59:20 | GodEater | mirak: this is a rockbox channel - not a linux support channel |
| 18:59:21 | n1s | nomel: it's a known bug with high bitrate formats such as flac or ape |
| 18:59:52 | lostlogic | n1s: what's the problem? buffer refill not triggering fast enough? |
| 18:59:54 | pixelma | n1s: isn't flac very fast? |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:05 | n1s | nomel: thry setting the "anti-skip" thingy higher and see if it helps |
| 19:00:06 | GodEater | yeah, flac is fine |
| 19:00:11 | karashata | FLAC works fine on my H10, seeking and everything even... |
| 19:00:18 | n1s | lostlogic: seems like it. |
| 19:00:43 | nomel | it plays, then the disk read indicator turns off, there's a delay, the disk read indicators comes back on, then it starts again. |
| 19:00:43 | mirak | GodEater: I need to find someone that uses Ubuntu and it's related to rockbox |
| 19:00:46 | n1s | pixelma: yes the decoding is fast but somehow the rebuffering starts too late |
| 19:01:00 | GodEater | mirak: just ask your question then |
| 19:01:10 | nomel | about 700ms pauses, 2.5 second playback. |
| 19:01:20 | pixelma | n1s: I'm not sure and can't take a look atm but I think there is no anti-skip setting on the flash based c200 |
| 19:01:30 | mirak | GodEater: I don't manage to encode mp3 with mencoder |
| 19:01:33 | n1s | pixelma: oh |
| 19:01:37 | nomel | n1s, i'll try that. |
| 19:01:38 | lostlogic | nomel: sounds like the decoder needs data faster than the buffering system is supplying it because there's kinda a cycle delay between buffer on and buffer off −− like n1s said, increasing the anti-skip will help because it will try to trigger the buffer fill faster. |
| 19:01:41 | mirak | GodEater: for mpegplayer |
| 19:01:49 | n1s | lostlogic: if you are interested i reported it back in december http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6479 |
| 19:01:55 | GodEater | mirak: then that is NOT a rockbox question. You need to go and ask in a ubuntu support channel |
| 19:02:40 | mirak | GodEater: I prefer ask here because it's more likely to find people that uses mencoder for mpegplayer |
| 19:02:50 | n1s | nomel: so you have a pause about every 2.5 seconds? |
| 19:03:04 | mirak | GodEater: I asked there too of course |
| 19:03:29 | | Quit Frazz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:04:02 | nomel | n1s, yeah. |
| 19:04:11 | nomel | can't find an anti-skip in general settintgs. |
| 19:04:29 | n1s | nomel: then it is not the thing I mentioned as i thought you only had pauses when it rebuffered |
| 19:04:45 | nomel | i think that is what's happening. |
| 19:04:53 | n1s | nomel: you are simply using too high compression level for our decoder to handle then |
| 19:05:02 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 19:05:20 | pixelma | n1s: btw. I had no problems playing flac files with it |
| 19:05:24 | nomel | you know that because it's playing for 2.5 and only pausing for about .7, meaning it should be able to keep up? |
| 19:05:34 | scorche|w | mirak: if i came in here and was asking how to use a webbrowser, that wouldnt be ok just because i want to browse rockbox.org |
| 19:05:47 | nomel | if it were buffering that is. |
| 19:05:56 | n1s | pixelma: I suppose flash targets are not affected as they don't have to wait for disk spinup |
| 19:06:02 | lostlogic | nomel: if you go to system|debug|view audiothread you can tell us which buffer is running low. |
| 19:06:20 | mirak | scorche: yeah right |
| 19:06:48 | n1s | nomel: if it is pausing like that all the time then yes the decoder can't keep up |
| 19:07:07 | scorche|w | and if i came in here asking how to rip music from a CD, it wouldnt be ok just because i would be using it on rockbox |
| 19:07:26 | n1s | also it will probably keep buffering because there will not be enough cpu to read very fast from flash |
| 19:07:44 | nomel | n1s, pcm |
| 19:07:54 | nomel | it doesn't even make it to half way. |
| 19:07:59 | mirak | scorche|w: what I want is find people that use ubuntu that was my first question, and it's more likely that here someone might tried to use mpegplayer. Don't do like I said anything else, that's anoying |
| 19:08:22 | n1s | nomel: that is the decoder not being able to keep up, go with lower compression or another format |
| 19:08:36 | scorche|w | mirak: my point is that what you are asking sint rockbox related |
| 19:08:45 | nomel | ahhh. |
| 19:08:46 | nomel | ok. |
| 19:09:02 | GodEater | mirak: and you're required to stay on topic here. So you're in violation of our channel guidelines |
| 19:09:02 | nomel | so what is codec buffer? raw data for the codec buffer? |
| 19:09:21 | mirak | scorche|w: yes it's related because I am trying to encode a video using rockbox wiki. |
| 19:09:21 | n1s | yep |
| 19:09:24 | nomel | very cool. |
| 19:09:52 | mirak | GodEater: then remove the howto to encode mpegplayer videos of the rockbox wiki |
| 19:09:58 | GodEater | mirak: the wiki gives advice on how to do it. It's not a supported solution. |
| 19:10:14 | nomel | how much cpu is dedicated to codec? |
| 19:10:21 | scorche|w | mirak: that is provided for your benefit...if the wiki is wrong, we would sure liek to know how to correct it, but this channel is not for supporting mencoder |
| 19:10:39 | GodEater | mirak: you're expected to show at least a little nouse, and work out if there are differences in the instructions for your distro. |
| 19:10:48 | n1s | nomel: it has high priority so it uses as much as it needs |
| 19:11:32 | | Join hc1 [0] (n=agashlin@nat01-southtowers-ext.Rutgers.EDU) |
| 19:11:33 | mirak | scorche|w: that why I search someone that use ubuntu. if you are not concerned just don't answer, it would made life easier for everybody and avoid goind on useless arguing |
| 19:11:55 | | Quit hcs (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:11:57 | mirak | GodEater: well at first I provided some commands in the wiki so ... |
| 19:12:00 | | Nick hc1 is now known as hcs (n=agashlin@nat01-southtowers-ext.Rutgers.EDU) |
| 19:12:08 | scorche|w | mirak: so we should just ignore any and all rule violations?...what would eb the purpose in having guidelines at all then? |
| 19:12:54 | GodEater | mirak: Llorean told you this was off topic earlier. And you've just ignored him and come back again. |
| 19:13:46 | Nico_P | lostlogic: here? |
| 19:14:04 | mirak | scorche|w GodEater : my first question was trying to find someone that use ubuntu on this channel. You then deviated to this useless arguing about the usefullness of my question. I am looking for people that use Ubuntu and which center of interest is rockbox, and encoding an mp3 with specific options. |
| 19:14:22 | GodEater | mirak: which we KEEP telling you is OFFTOPIC |
| 19:14:33 | mirak | I have better chances to find convergence than asking on #ubuntu if someone uses rockbox |
| 19:14:48 | * | rasher points at #rockbox-community |
| 19:15:56 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:16:32 | n1s | Nico_P: have you done any changes to the low audio buffer watermark in mob? |
| 19:17:01 | Nico_P | n1s: yes, I've changed how the conf_* variables are set yesterday |
| 19:17:21 | scorche|w | mirak: you deviated from the channel topic by asking an off-topic question...this isnt a rockbox question...this is a mencoder/ubuntu question |
| 19:17:36 | Nico_P | n1s: that is, I changed it from how it was before in mob... it's closer to svn now |
| 19:17:41 | scorche|w | it even says to take offtopic to rockbox-community if you wish |
| 19:17:44 | scorche|w | end of story |
| 19:18:02 | n1s | Nico_P: have you seen FS #6479 ? |
| 19:19:10 | Nico_P | looking |
| 19:19:14 | mirak | scorche: like I said it's not a bad place to find people with the interest convergence. and you should have least pointed me to this other channel instead of beeing unsocial. |
| 19:19:50 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@031-020-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 19:19:53 | mirak | scorche|w: so I went on the other channel it's perfect see you there |
| 19:20:01 | lostlogic | Nico_P: yeah, I'm around. |
| 19:20:06 | GodEater | mirak: the channel topic points you there# |
| 19:20:10 | GodEater | you're supposed to read it... |
| 19:20:18 | scorche|w | that channel is in the topic for this channel, as well as in the guidelines which are supposed to be read before speaking..."interest convergence" is still offtopic |
| 19:20:20 | Nico_P | lostlogic: cool. do you know I'm implementing metadata on buffer? |
| 19:20:22 | | Join ilgufo [0] (n=matteo@host102-189-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:20:35 | lostlogic | Nico_P: yes, I gathered that −− how's it goin' ? :) |
| 19:21:01 | Nico_P | lostlogic: quite well... It will soon be ready for commit |
| 19:21:11 | mirak | GodEater scorche|w anyway you should have shown me the offtopic channel just to say me on it I was offtopic there ;-D |
| 19:21:20 | Nico_P | n1s: the problem is still present in MoB, but maybe it could be extended later |
| 19:21:23 | ze | probably would have far fewer issues if you'd have made a #rockbox-dev instead of a #rockbox-community :p |
| 19:21:27 | lostlogic | Nico_P: I'd love to review it before &| after commit. |
| 19:21:37 | scorche|w | "<scorche|w> that channel is in the topic for this channel, as well as in the guidelines which are supposed to be read before speaking" |
| 19:21:41 | | Join pondlife [0] (n=Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife) |
| 19:21:50 | Nico_P | lostlogic: I was going to suggest that :) the code is publicly available already |
| 19:22:07 | lostlogic | I'm sure that I could find it, but you want to link me? :-P |
| 19:22:09 | | Part pondlife ("Gone") |
| 19:22:10 | Nico_P | lostlogic: http://repo.or.cz/w/Rockbox.git |
| 19:22:16 | ze | really on irc you gotta expect people to show up in the first/most-generic-looking channel they see and then fail to read the topic and guidelines |
| 19:22:19 | lostlogic | ah, sweet <3 git. |
| 19:22:31 | Nico_P | it's on the "mob" branch... you can get a diff and see the log for the branch |
| 19:22:35 | Nico_P | and many other things |
| 19:23:10 | Nico_P | It's based around a buffering thread with a new API |
| 19:23:11 | lostlogic | cool |
| 19:23:20 | Nico_P | that takes some of the complexity out of playback.c |
| 19:23:23 | scorche|w | ze: i prefer to expect a bit of respect out of people, instead of blatantly ignoring the topic, onjoin message AND the guidelines |
| 19:23:42 | GodEater | and then the requests not to ignore the topic afterwards too |
| 19:24:39 | ze | scorche|w: good luck with that...can i live in that world too? :p |
| 19:24:43 | Nico_P | lostlogic: the current state is that it works about as well as SVN. Basically I've translated the svn playback code to the new API |
| 19:24:48 | lostlogic | Nico_P: a buffering thread independent fromt he audio thread? |
| 19:24:51 | Nico_P | yes |
| 19:25:48 | GodEater | lostlogic: don't go near crossfade with it though ;) |
| 19:25:56 | lostlogic | probably makes sense, specially with dual core support |
| 19:25:56 | Nico_P | the idea is to have the buffering API available for all the threads, so that e.g. the plugins can use it too |
| 19:25:59 | lostlogic | GodEater: hrm? |
| 19:26:14 | Nico_P | currently enabling crossfade in a MoB build fails |
| 19:26:17 | GodEater | Nico_P's code has some issues with crossfade when you turn it on or off currently :) |
| 19:26:25 | lostlogic | gotcha |
| 19:26:29 | lostlogic | I don't use it any way. |
| 19:26:34 | scorche|w | ze: so we should adapt to the expectation that no one will listen to us and wont follow rules?...forgive me if i dont... |
| 19:26:42 | GodEater | nor me - I wouldn't have noticed it if pondlife hadn't asked me to try it |
| 19:27:22 | Nico_P | same here |
| 19:27:38 | GodEater | when you say "fails" |
| 19:27:45 | GodEater | what do you mean too ? I get a hard lock. |
| 19:28:21 | Nico_P | really? I only got a bunch of codec failure messages... IIRC it was recoverable by simply stopping playback |
| 19:28:29 | GodEater | I have to reset my ipod |
| 19:28:36 | Nico_P | oh :( |
| 19:28:53 | GodEater | it's not too onerous - I can manage ;) |
| 19:30:17 | ze | scorche|w: all i said was #rockbox-dev would probably end up being much cleaner and on-topic if #rockbox was left to being the community/"front-end" chan |
| 19:30:34 | ze | scorche|w: vs the opposite way it is now |
| 19:30:55 | * | Nico_P tries crossfade in the sim |
| 19:31:02 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@i-83-67-214-206.freedom2surf.net) |
| 19:31:50 | Nico_P | woo I get whitenoise |
| 19:32:38 | | Quit stripwax (Client Quit) |
| 19:36:26 | | Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) |
| 19:37:26 | scorche|w | ze: but then, we would have more separation of the community (users and developers), which would be undesirable |
| 19:37:54 | | Quit Rondom (No route to host) |
| 19:39:13 | preglow | yeah, white noise... |
| 19:41:22 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: is it possible to temporarly shut a thread down? |
| 19:42:55 | nomel | n1s, what flac level did you use with your c200? |
| 19:47:03 | | Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:49:43 | | Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 19:49:53 | | Quit Gnu47 ("I'm off to stalk my Pah'Mach'kai") |
| 19:50:11 | lostlogic | Nico_P: why would a replacement buffering API impact crossfade? It shouldn't be any different (to the buffering API) than a normal track change... |
| 19:50:48 | Nico_P | for me regular crossfade works fine. I think the problem is simply enabling or disabling it during playback |
| 19:51:05 | lostlogic | ahh, because that does a buffer resize makemess operation |
| 19:51:06 | lostlogic | gotcha. |
| 19:51:37 | pixelma | he doesn't have a c200, I said that. They were quite high bitrate ones (900...1000 kbp/s), you probably won't have the same problems with flac as you had with ape because the decoder is more efficient by far |
| 19:51:47 | pixelma | nomel: ^ |
| 19:52:34 | Nico_P | lostlogic: does crossfading enabling modify filebuf or filebuflen? |
| 19:52:52 | lostlogic | Nico_P: yes −− it resizes the PCM buffer and thereby pushes out the filebuf. |
| 19:53:02 | Nico_P | I can't find where |
| 19:53:06 | | Quit ilgufo ("So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish - http://gufo.wordpress.com") |
| 19:53:07 | lostlogic | at least it did like a year ago when I last looked at it :-P |
| 19:53:52 | n1s | nomel: I don't have a c200 but an iriver h300 and i guess I used -8 |
| 19:53:54 | lostlogic | audio_set_crossfade -> line 903 (on your branch) |
| 19:54:05 | | Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 19:54:07 | lostlogic | (playback.c) |
| 19:54:42 | Nico_P | lostlogic: even in audio_get_buffer I don't see where it changes filebuf and filebuflen |
| 19:56:08 | | Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 19:56:08 | lostlogic | Nico_P: hmm, this has changed since I looked at it, gimme a few. |
| 19:56:52 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 19:57:57 | Nico_P | GodEater: enabling crossfade just worked quite well on my gigabeat (just a bit of whitenoise) |
| 20:00 |
| 20:01:57 | preglow | amiconn: you around? |
| 20:02:43 | | Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-069-134-102-044.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 20:04:19 | nomel | my bad pixelma >_< thanks. |
| 20:04:59 | hcs | There's a discussion of GPLv3 in #gplv3-meeting shortly, if we want to bring up any of our concerns this might be a good opportunity. Or just for general interest. |
| 20:05:40 | hcs | http://ruslug.rutgers.edu/~harda/%23gplv3-meeting.log for anyone who comes across this in the logs |
| 20:06:51 | BigBambi | Nico_P: I've been playing a bit more with MoB on the H1x0 and except for the crossfade issue it is working well |
| 20:06:55 | lostlogic | Nico_P: the filebuf is acutally set asynchronously because the buffer state is set to trashed by the audio_set_crossfade. See audio_reset_buffer called in SVN playback.c |
| 20:07:15 | Zagor | hcs: are you thinking of any particular concerns that have been raised? |
| 20:07:33 | hcs | Zagor: nope, can't remember the discussion |
| 20:09:03 | | Quit The-Compiler ("Verlassend") |
| 20:10:36 | Nico_P | lostlogic: are you sure audio_get_buffer sets the buffer to "trashed"? |
| 20:10:56 | Nico_P | in the case of crossfade activation, size != NULL it seems |
| 20:11:17 | lostlogic | I can Nico_P maybe not to trashed, but it somehow indicates to the fill filebuf call that the buffer needs resetting |
| 20:11:57 | lostlogic | at CVS playback.c:2997 it checks if the buffer state is ! INITIALIZED and then calls reset buffer |
| 20:12:15 | Nico_P | ah, true |
| 20:12:35 | Nico_P | I need to reinit the buffering thread |
| 20:12:52 | | Quit barrywardell (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:13:04 | lostlogic | yeah, should be easy enough now that you have an api to do so rather than setting a state and waiting for it to be asynchronously picked up ;) |
| 20:13:23 | preglow | my, playback.c is a monster.. |
| 20:13:47 | lostlogic | preglow: fortunately nico_p's owrk will help tame the monster :) |
| 20:13:53 | preglow | very good |
| 20:14:11 | | Quit karashata ("Leaving.") |
| 20:16:42 | lostlogic | Nico_P: If I have ideas when I browse your code, should I send thoughts or patches? |
| 20:16:58 | Nico_P | lostlogic: both :) |
| 20:18:40 | bertrik | Hi, any AS3514 experts around? |
| 20:23:59 | | Join mrkiko [0] (n=mrkiko@adsl-ull-185-119.42-151.net24.it) |
| 20:24:00 | mrkiko | Hi all! |
| 20:24:04 | mrkiko | Hi all! |
| 20:24:17 | bertrik | Hi mrkiko |
| 20:26:09 | | Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 20:26:54 | bertrik | it seems some registers of the AS3514 are never initialised |
| 20:27:24 | Nico_P | GodEater: would you want to try crossfade with a new commit? |
| 20:27:27 | bertrik | this may have an effect on power consumption and perhaps also on sounds quality I think |
| 20:28:00 | | Join Dave2 [0] (i=dave@freenode/staff/dave2) |
| 20:28:14 | rasher | bertrik: check svn blame for the driver |
| 20:29:23 | | Join gstatus [0] (i=4b0b0846@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-5a341242952ee8eb) |
| 20:29:43 | gstatus | i just got a zune today and i was wondering if you can put rockbox onto a microsoft 30 gig zune |
| 20:29:58 | gstatus | cause ive been reading articles on the web and they suggested it is possible |
| 20:30:50 | n1s | gstatus: there is no one currently working on it but it is probably possible |
| 20:31:02 | pixelma | no, Rockbox only runs on the devices that are listed on the project's homepage |
| 20:31:11 | gstatus | yah i figured that |
| 20:31:19 | n1s | I mean possible to _port_ it to the zune it won't work today |
| 20:31:28 | gstatus | too bad its extremly difficult to mod any type of microsoft firmware |
| 20:31:43 | gstatus | in the begining release stages if you know what i mean |
| 20:32:09 | gstatus | can i ask you guys an opinion question? |
| 20:32:21 | n1s | gstatus: Rockbox is not a mod of anything and the biggest problem is getting around the encrytpion or signing of the firmware image... |
| 20:32:23 | | Join criznach [0] (n=criznach@host-69-145-134-192.grf-mt.client.bresnan.net) |
| 20:32:49 | gstatus | my friend is an it tech and he said that in ten years linux and mac will put microsoft out of business |
| 20:33:02 | gstatus | is that a fair statement?? |
| 20:33:09 | Llorean | gstatus: This channel is for Rockbox discussion. |
| 20:33:18 | * | n1s cannot see the future but i can see offtopic chatter ;) |
| 20:33:27 | | Quit gstatus (Client Quit) |
| 20:33:52 | * | mrkiko smiles |
| 20:34:23 | | Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@87.13.120.184) |
| 20:35:17 | Llorean | lostlogic: How 'bout moving "Precut" from EQ to its own setting called "Digital Gain" (that always works, even if EQ is disabled), and then rename the Preamp for replaygain to something like "Replaygain Offset" so it's more clear what it's affecting? |
| 20:36:06 | Llorean | Then, if I can convince someone, have the EQ always automatically precut (since this can be offset by digital gain since it's applied at the same step) so that we never get "The EQ is broken, it makes my music sound weird" bug reports. |
| 20:36:14 | | Join Frazz [0] (n=Fraser@thelawsons.plus.com) |
| 20:37:36 | preglow | man, logf spews junk |
| 20:37:47 | preglow | is there any point in having all these logfs enabled by default? |
| 20:38:20 | mrkiko | What logs? Channel logs? |
| 20:38:53 | preglow | logf() |
| 20:38:54 | Zagor | preglow: I think each logf "producer" should have a #undef logf at the head of the file, to be enabled only during debugging |
| 20:38:57 | | Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:39:00 | preglow | Zagor: so do i |
| 20:39:15 | preglow | there's no point in logf spewing junk i'm not interested in |
| 20:40:22 | Zagor | I have disabled tagcache and tagtree while developing usb. otherwise my log lines are drowned |
| 20:40:48 | Zagor | i mean logf in tagcache and tagtree |
| 20:41:34 | preglow | playback.c also has a fair share |
| 20:44:57 | lostlogic | Llorean: waht is this eq problem you speak of? So you just want the eq (when eq is active) to default to -Xdb? |
| 20:45:50 | Llorean | lostlogic: If I add 6, 3, 2, 2, and 15 db, it should default to -15 for precut. If it's 2, 2, 1, 1, 2 then -2, etc. Then "Digital Gain" can offset this if your music really wouldn't clip, or you're concerned about the lost range. |
| 20:45:52 | Nico_P | Zagor: maybe you should commit that change... I get annoyed by the tagcach logf too |
| 20:46:35 | preglow | each file should just do a macro for related logf events so we can easily disable them |
| 20:46:47 | Llorean | lostlogic: Increasing gain with the equalizer is a very good way to cause clipping, which then spawns bug reports because people don't know they should counter it with the precut to avoid it. If the precut were automatic at "safe" values, and they could then un-precut with "Digital Gain" I think it'd cause less bug reports |
| 20:46:51 | lostlogic | Llorean: *nod* we also do need to take care that for people who want absolutely no digital alteration to their encoded music we don't do any. |
| 20:46:52 | Llorean | And, with proper option naming, be less confusing. |
| 20:47:01 | preglow | Llorean: i'm very much against any automatic adjustment of precut with the eq |
| 20:47:07 | Llorean | preglow: Why? |
| 20:47:21 | Llorean | Assuming that you could negate it as easily as you can manually add precut now? |
| 20:47:25 | preglow | i just don't like it, i don't want rockbox to second guess what i do |
| 20:47:37 | preglow | if i apply positive gains, it's because i know the music has enough headroom |
| 20:47:41 | lostlogic | Llorean: also, couldn't people just be smart and keep their eq settings 'centered' aruond zero db??? |
| 20:47:47 | lostlogic | I mean that's the 'right' way to use an eq any way |
| 20:47:58 | Llorean | Most of our users have no idea what the "right" way to use an EQ is. |
| 20:48:08 | mrkiko | If someone has something to say me, then he should send private messages. Bye! |
| 20:48:08 | preglow | people should be very used to eqs clipping if you do positive gains |
| 20:48:09 | | Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@unaffiliated/kugel) |
| 20:48:18 | Llorean | I would hazard that at least half the people with enabled EQs in Rockbox decided that there wasn't enough Bass from the Bass setting, so used the EQ to add more |
| 20:48:33 | Nico_P | preglow: I also have a macro to enable logf logging to the debug screen in the sim |
| 20:48:41 | Nico_P | ie to the console actually |
| 20:48:50 | preglow | Nico_P: that sounds totally sweet |
| 20:48:57 | lostlogic | their music is going to sound like crap with the bass cranked up that much any way, so clipping is just the world helping to tell them so :) |
| 20:48:57 | preglow | Nico_P: that's where i would expect sim logfs to appear |
| 20:49:10 | Nico_P | indeed |
| 20:49:14 | Llorean | I think the majority of our users don't know what a precut is. "Rock" "Metal" "Jazz" etc presets don't show you a precut on consumer electronics. |
| 20:49:33 | scorche|w | lostlogic: they dont really care....all other music sounds weak and too diverse ;) |
| 20:49:35 | preglow | Llorean: perhaps we should hard code some presets |
| 20:49:42 | Llorean | So I'd rather precut be hidden, and give an advanced user a way to un-precut then get bug reports because "the EQ is broken" |
| 20:49:50 | preglow | Llorean: but i'm very much against dumbing down the eq, it's a tool for people who know what they're doing anyway |
| 20:50:09 | preglow | Llorean: i would not expect random user to know what decibels, q and center freqs are anyway |
| 20:50:10 | Llorean | preglow: I don't see it as dumbing down. The full range of functionality would still be there, just with slightly different default behaviour. |
| 20:50:23 | Llorean | You don't need to know what most of those are to use the Simple EQ |
| 20:50:28 | preglow | Llorean: how would i apply a positive gain with no precut using your setup? |
| 20:50:58 | Llorean | preglow: If you apply +6 gain in your highest band, then you adjust the digital gain to +6 to counter the -6 "hidden" precut. |
| 20:51:10 | preglow | nah, i don't like that at all |
| 20:51:15 | preglow | no eqs i know of work that way |
| 20:51:18 | preglow | all of them work like ours |
| 20:51:24 | nomel | assuming your source is mastered well, you have to apply negative. |
| 20:51:33 | preglow | our treble and bass controls work like you say, if they can, and they're what users who don't know what an eq is should use |
| 20:51:34 | nomel | otherwise you will get clipping. |
| 20:51:48 | nomel | you can't gain out of the bitrange and expect it to sound good. |
| 20:51:49 | | Quit atsea-32 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:52:03 | Llorean | preglow: Maybe automate precut if they select the gain levels in the "Simple" screen? |
| 20:52:07 | Nico_P | preglow, Zagor: maybe logf.h should have a bunch of defines like PLAYBACK_LOGF, DATABASE_LOGF... |
| 20:52:08 | preglow | Llorean: perhaps we should make it clearer that the eq screen is for advanced users |
| 20:52:15 | Llorean | preglow: I'd go for that too. |
| 20:52:15 | preglow | Llorean: and perhaps hard code some presets like rock, jazz, etc |
| 20:52:21 | | Quit gromit` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:52:34 | nomel | have an outo precut option on by default...so they can do whatever they want. advanced user could shut it off. |
| 20:52:40 | preglow | Llorean: i want to remove the simple eq controls altogether, btw, the graphical screen should be all, but it should be modified to be better, of course |
| 20:52:51 | Llorean | preglow: What I'm trying to work out is how to make things more "intuitive". Clearer named options, and less interdependence on options so a user won't *think* they've set something right, get an unexpected result, and be upset because "Feature X isn't working" |
| 20:52:51 | lostlogic | we could add a prevent clipping option to eq like we have on replay gain. |
| 20:53:07 | Zagor | Nico_P: I don't think we need to make a big thing out of it. I'd rather it was disabled by default and then you enabled it on the files you want to debug |
| 20:53:18 | preglow | lostlogic: only kind of "prevent clipping" that exists for eqs is never using positive gains |
| 20:53:43 | preglow | lostlogic: if we rely on automatic precut, the user will be surprised when the volume lowers when analogue volume is at max |
| 20:53:52 | pixelma | preglow: there are eq presets |
| 20:53:52 | preglow | i want stuff simple, no fancy interdependencies |
| 20:53:53 | lostlogic | preglow: prevent clipping could do Paul's auto-cut... sounds like preventing clipping to me. |
| 20:54:01 | preglow | pixelma: i know, but they're hidden away, and also files |
| 20:54:16 | Llorean | preglow: They could stay files. |
| 20:54:29 | preglow | Llorean: they'd also take minimal space in core, but sure, they could stay files |
| 20:54:33 | Nico_P | Zagor: how did you do it? #undef logf in tagcache.c? |
| 20:54:35 | Llorean | But instead of calling it "Browse EQ Presets" would could simply name it "Equalizer Presets" and be the first item |
| 20:54:43 | Llorean | Then "Advanced Equalizer Settings" could be the second one, and lead to the advance screen. |
| 20:54:58 | Zagor | Nico_P: yeah, #undef ROCKBOX_HAS_LOGF |
| 20:55:06 | Llorean | preglow: I think just renaming it will be good enough, then users can add more presets easily, and not have to find them in separate places. |
| 20:55:07 | preglow | i don't think i'd want another submenu for eq, i don't much like nested menus |
| 20:55:11 | | Join gromit` [0] (n=gromit@ras75-5-82-234-244-69.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:55:17 | Llorean | preglow: It'd actually be less menus, I think |
| 20:55:25 | Zagor | Nico_P: but I think the opposite is a better model. i.e. off by default, then add a define in the files you are debugging |
| 20:55:28 | Llorean | Or equal depth |
| 20:56:04 | * | Llorean would really like to remove the on/off option for the equalizer too. |
| 20:56:17 | lostlogic | Llorean: why? |
| 20:56:19 | Nico_P | Zagor: all logf calls would need to be changed to a macro, wouldn't they? |
| 20:56:24 | preglow | Llorean: anyway, would you just keep the preset menu as it currently is? no changes apart from position and name? |
| 20:56:27 | Llorean | lostlogic: You don't turn Bass/Treble on/off. |
| 20:56:37 | Llorean | preglow: Yep. |
| 20:56:44 | lostlogic | Llorean: so eq is just off if it's set to zeros? |
| 20:56:44 | | Join steph_an [0] (n=enduser@B3203.karlshof.wh.tu-darmstadt.de) |
| 20:56:46 | steph_an | hi |
| 20:56:51 | Llorean | lostlogic: Exactly |
| 20:56:58 | Zagor | Nico_P: you mean like #define logf _logf :) |
| 20:57:01 | preglow | Llorean: if so, i think it'll make presets kind of second-rate. the menu can't remember which preset is active, for example, and the user will still be able to tweak graphical controls like nothing happened, even forgetting a preset is active |
| 20:57:11 | lostlogic | sure fine as lnog as it's done at the GUI level and there's still a single boolean check for it at runtime ;) |
| 20:57:13 | Zagor | (it already is a macro) |
| 20:57:29 | Llorean | preglow: Ah, hadn't thought of that. But it'd be nice of users could add their own presets easily... |
| 20:57:31 | Nico_P | Zagor: ah... then no problem :) |
| 20:57:39 | * | amiconn would just remove those silly eq presets |
| 20:57:57 | preglow | Llorean: if we are to upgrade presets to something we want users to use more actively, we should make the menu remember if one is active, and also disable the graphical eq screen if one is active |
| 20:58:23 | Llorean | preglow: Ah, so require them to choose "Custom" before they can change it? |
| 20:58:35 | preglow | Llorean: would be optimal, if you ask me |
| 20:58:39 | Llorean | Sounds good to me. |
| 20:58:42 | amiconn | What purpse would the presets be then if you can't fine tune? |
| 20:58:57 | preglow | amiconn: the presets are shit anyway |
| 20:59:07 | preglow | rock? jazz? who cares, it's just for users who have no cleu |
| 20:59:08 | preglow | clue <- |
| 20:59:10 | amiconn | I think th epresets should stay like they are now, or being removed entirely |
| 20:59:34 | amiconn | ^ insert 'either' where it fits |
| 20:59:57 | preglow | i agree, but that doesn't solve Llorean's user problem |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:14 | Nico_P | Zagor: but then I don't quite see what would be in each file's header... if logf is enabled disable it and each dev changes the disabling line? |
| 21:00:18 | amiconn | What problem? |
| 21:00:19 | preglow | namely, clueless people use the eq and complain when it sounds crap |
| 21:00:28 | preglow | they're used to eq functionality being simpler than ours |
| 21:00:46 | Llorean | amiconn: Mostly the fact that people who use the "EQ" on Rockbox are used to things like the iPod EQ, where there's just choices. |
| 21:00:46 | preglow | btw, anyone here have a dap with a functioning parametric eq? how does it handle? |
| 21:00:56 | Llorean | And when they end up making it clip, they think something's broken and file reports. |
| 21:01:04 | | Quit petur (Connection timed out) |
| 21:01:09 | preglow | amiconn: i don't think upgrading presets would matter much, even if we put them in the core, they'll eat a minimum of space |
| 21:01:16 | preglow | amiconn: the menu entries are already there |
| 21:01:18 | Llorean | Anyway, my goal is to come up with a bunch of ways to simplify the menu. Surely some of them will suck. :) |
| 21:02:05 | amiconn | Well, an EQ with just presets must not be called EQ imo, even if the actual filtering works like an EQ |
| 21:02:20 | Llorean | amiconn: It'd still have the advanced mode. |
| 21:02:21 | preglow | Llorean: i think the latest stuff i said balances ease of use and customizability nicely without catering to clueless people too excess |
| 21:02:28 | Llorean | preglow: I do too. |
| 21:02:37 | Zagor | Nico_P: I'd rather see it being disabled by default so we don't have to add stuff to all files. then each developer adds a line #define ENABLE_LOGF or whatever just before #include "logf.h" in the file(s) he wants to enable logf in |
| 21:02:39 | amiconn | I hate that 'advanced' settings' idea |
| 21:02:46 | Llorean | amiconn: It's already there in the EQ though |
| 21:02:53 | amiconn | It hides away settings, by introducing even more settings |
| 21:02:53 | Llorean | We have a "Simple" and "Advanced" and "Presets" |
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| 21:03:07 | Llorean | Instead we'd just have "Equalizer Presets" and "Graphical EQ" as the two options |
| 21:03:10 | Zagor | Nico_P: but those defines would never be committed. they're only used during development |
| 21:03:10 | Nico_P | Zagor: ha yes that's smarter |
| 21:03:33 | preglow | Llorean: you mean having an "show advanced settings" setting? |
| 21:03:36 | preglow | ehh |
| 21:03:38 | Nico_P | Zagor: they could be commented out in SVN |
| 21:03:39 | preglow | amiconn: |
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| 21:04:14 | Llorean | preglow: Really, just reorganizing our existing menu. No new options, except maybe having the presets work a little differently |
| 21:04:16 | amiconn | Llorean: 'Simple' and 'Advanced' aren't really simple vs. advanced iiuc - and they just mirror the functionality of the eq screen |
| 21:04:22 | preglow | but anyway, we should aim to remove the advanced and simple eq menus |
| 21:04:32 | preglow | and instead make the graphical one good for all users, including voice users |
| 21:04:36 | preglow | it's perfectly possible |
| 21:04:36 | Llorean | amiconn: Simple gives you less options. |
| 21:04:45 | Llorean | amiconn: Advanced and Graphical are the two "full" sets of options, iirc |
| 21:05:06 | Llorean | iirc simply just lets you adjust the gain and doesn't concern you with frequency or q at all |
| 21:05:07 | amiconn | I'd drop 'Simple' then |
| 21:05:34 | preglow | the default state of the grapical screen should be adjusting gain, so that it pretty much serves as a "simple settings" if you don't know about other stuff |
| 21:05:58 | amiconn | ..and if the EQ screen can be improved so that it isn't a pita to operate anymore, adjusts to screen size, and is properly voiced, I'd drop 'Advanced' as well |
| 21:06:00 | preglow | and it already is, i think |
| 21:06:08 | preglow | amiconn: that's exactly what i want |
| 21:06:13 | | Part WILDROCK_ |
| 21:06:25 | | Quit BigBambi (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:06:28 | preglow | amiconn: but it's hard to think of something nice, especially for a gui idiot like me |
| 21:07:12 | | Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 21:07:19 | amiconn | Atm the EQ screen controls are far from being intuitive, and e.g. on c200 the 5th band can only be adjusted blindly - it's out of screen |
| 21:07:32 | preglow | completely agree, i'd love to see that screen redesigned |
| 21:07:39 | preglow | but i just have no idea how to |
| 21:07:53 | preglow | i suck at making user interfaces, and i hate coding them |
| 21:08:49 | Llorean | Is it necessary to show all the bands at once? |
| 21:08:55 | Llorean | Don't we just show one at a time on the smaller screens? |
| 21:09:17 | pixelma | I've been told that this is so on the remote screens |
| 21:09:49 | preglow | amiconn: could you have a quick look at qmf_synth() in http://www.pvv.org/~thomj/rockbox/filters_cf.S to see if i've done some blatant mistake? |
| 21:10:42 | preglow | Llorean: i don't think showing all the bands at once will be very hard, showing all the info about them textually will be, but i don't really think that's necessary |
| 21:11:30 | Llorean | preglow: You could just show five sliders, without any text (unlike currently with text for each) then just the currently selected slider's text at the bottom of the screen? |
| 21:11:46 | amiconn | That might work |
| 21:11:48 | preglow | some kind of rudimentary design might be five graphical bars, a window header telling you what mode you're in (gain, centre freq, Q/bandwidth), and the value of each param under each slider |
| 21:12:02 | preglow | if there's not enough room for a value under each, show the current one at the bottom of the screen |
| 21:12:06 | preglow | something like that |
| 21:12:07 | preglow | then a mode switch button |
| 21:12:26 | amiconn | Showing vertical sliders would make adjustment more consistent with other options, i.e. more intuitive |
| 21:12:36 | preglow | i want them vertical, yes |
| 21:12:57 | amiconn | And at least on colour targets, the actual filter curve could be shown in the background |
| 21:13:09 | preglow | yeah, i've got code for that almost finished |
| 21:13:16 | preglow | just a couple of bugs to iron out |
| 21:13:23 | amiconn | Btw, presets could be integrated in a similar way as the radio presets |
| 21:13:24 | preglow | and i need a nicer exp/pow |
| 21:13:28 | preglow | eh, log/pow |
| 21:14:11 | * | preglow checks out |
| 21:14:44 | amiconn | I.e. the EQ would stay freely adjustable independently of whether a preset is loaded, and the preset name would be shown in the EQ screen when it matches the current config |
| 21:14:48 | | Quit ToHellWithGA (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:15:18 | Llorean | Makes sense. |
| 21:15:19 | preglow | i don't know if that is very valuable functionality |
| 21:15:30 | preglow | if i adjust the eq, i don't care what presets match what i'm doing |
| 21:15:44 | preglow | i'm only interested in going preset -> values, never values -> preset |
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| 21:16:00 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:16:07 | preglow | when you're using the radio, it is however interesting to go from value -> preset, to see what station you've happened to stumble upon |
| 21:16:22 | amiconn | If the eq presets are loaded into an array of struct eq_settings, checking for a match is really just a memcmp() |
| 21:16:50 | preglow | which is good, we don't want to spend much more time in the eq than we already do :) |
| 21:16:55 | preglow | calculation is already pretty expensive on arm |
| 21:17:03 | amiconn | Or rather, as many memcmp()s as presets in the list |
| 21:17:27 | | Nick TMM_ is now known as TMM (n=hp@ip565b35da.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 21:17:42 | preglow | but i still don't see that as very valuable functionality |
| 21:17:53 | amiconn | That would require changing the eq preset file format |
| 21:17:55 | preglow | i would never care if my current values match any preset |
| 21:18:09 | amiconn | Even not your own? |
| 21:18:23 | preglow | well |
| 21:18:25 | preglow | perhaps :) |
| 21:18:55 | amiconn | For radio, the .cfg only stores which .fmr is loaded |
| 21:19:30 | amiconn | So for eq, we could ship an .eqlist with "standard" presets |
| 21:19:30 | preglow | but this would also mean we can only support a fixed amount of presets |
| 21:19:43 | amiconn | A fixed amount per list, yes |
| 21:19:59 | preglow | i don't know if the list concept is needed for the eq |
| 21:20:15 | amiconn | Someone who doesn't want /like this list could make his own |
| 21:21:57 | preglow | a builtin list would be cool, though |
| 21:22:14 | preglow | i hate the disk spinning :/ |
| 21:22:22 | preglow | then again, i'll never use it, so... |
| 21:22:26 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp186-174.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 21:22:30 | amiconn | I think this list concept would be better. Right now, if you want to load one of your own presets, you have to browse through all preinstalled ones |
| 21:22:43 | | Join donutman25 [0] (n=dagni@65.75.87.48) |
| 21:23:01 | amiconn | Sure, you can delete them - but they'll reappear with the next upgrade |
| 21:23:24 | amiconn | But with a list concept, you could build your own list and simply ignore the standard list |
| 21:23:38 | | Join evil-rhino [0] (n=ori@CPE001a705a799e-CM0014045d3018.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:23:59 | | Quit steph_an (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:24:05 | amiconn | And you wouldn't have the disk spin up everytime, if the eq list is loaded together with the other settings |
| 21:24:57 | * | preglow tries to think of what eq screen lauout would work on something as tiny as the c200 |
| 21:25:19 | evil-rhino | hi guys. i've just installed rockbox on a 2nd gen ipod mini. everything works like a charm, except the ipod seems to crash whenever i now plug it in to the usb port on my computer. i get the usb cable picture, but my computer won't recognize it, and the cable picture stays even when i unplug it. the only way to snap the ipod out of it is to reboot. any ideas? |
| 21:26:02 | evil-rhino | i'm using the current build, fwiw. |
| 21:26:28 | pixelma | evil-rhino: that happens with some builds and the Mini seems to show that behaviour quite often. You should be able to put it into disk mode manually |
| 21:27:11 | evil-rhino | pixelma: via the apple diagnostic menu, or is there a way to do it within rockbox? |
| 21:28:32 | pixelma | with pressing the right nuttons - menu+select to reboot and select+play as soon as it boots, if I remember correctly |
| 21:28:38 | pixelma | *buttons |
| 21:28:43 | evil-rhino | right, i just did that. will i have to do that every time, do you think? |
| 21:28:56 | * | preglow goes back to his combined assembler and hair-loss fun |
| 21:29:01 | evil-rhino | it works, btw. |
| 21:29:24 | pixelma | probably not everytime but unfortunately I think it won't be the last time... |
| 21:30:25 | evil-rhino | Oh well. not a huge inconvenience. btw, am i now free to delete the standard ipod folders? (iPod_Control and the likes). I don't have any music on the iPod that i wanted to keep. |
| 21:30:33 | pixelma | and in my experience this is build dependent. So with this particular one it will be everytime |
| 21:30:56 | evil-rhino | oh. about how often do new build come out? |
| 21:31:09 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955E1B8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:31:14 | pixelma | few times a day :) |
| 21:31:29 | evil-rhino | ohh :) excellent. |
| 21:32:10 | pixelma | the current build is updated each time something new is committed (except if it's for the manual or rbutil) |
| 21:32:24 | | Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 21:32:45 | | Quit XavierGr_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:32:52 | | Nick sounddude is now known as CMaster (n=sounddud@d207-81-127-76.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 21:32:53 | evil-rhino | do you know about the ipod folders? |
| 21:32:59 | evil-rhino | i.e. can they be deleted? |
| 21:33:25 | | Nick CMaster is now known as sounddude (n=sounddud@d207-81-127-76.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 21:34:05 | pixelma | if you want to still be able to listen to your music you need to keep the ipod_control etc. folders. I'm not an Ipod expert but I think you don't need them otherwise, someone correct me if I'm wrong |
| 21:34:54 | Llorean | The ipod_control folder holds any music you used iTunes to put on there. |
| 21:35:06 | preglow | if you don't care about itunes, reatilos or your itunes installed music, they can all go |
| 21:35:09 | Llorean | But if you aren't using iTunes, you don't need any of the original folders |
| 21:35:14 | preglow | retailos will recreate them all when it starts next |
| 21:35:40 | evil-rhino | itunes? feh! :) |
| 21:35:49 | evil-rhino | well guys, thanks for all your help |
| 21:36:00 | evil-rhino | rockbox is pretty, well, rockin' |
| 21:36:37 | | Quit nicktastic ("Leaving") |
| 21:40:29 | | Quit desowin ("use linux") |
| 21:40:47 | pixelma | argh.. I meant "to listen to your music with the apple firmware".... this is when you type to fast :\ |
| 21:43:58 | | Quit donutman25 ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 21:44:12 | Nico_P | Zagor: I'm working on adding an ENABLE_LOGF define as you suggested... what about an ENABLE_DEBUGF too? |
| 21:44:38 | | Quit keanu (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:45:17 | Zagor | Nico_P: yeah I think it should work the same |
| 21:45:39 | * | Nico_P finds the "we open the real file ..." messages very annoying sometimes |
| 21:45:48 | Nico_P | Zagor: I'll add that too then |
| 21:46:13 | amiconn | Zagor: Regarding USB transfer speed - it might be that even if the controller handles the time critical stuff itself, its speed dram access might depend on the core clock |
| 21:46:27 | Zagor | amiconn: yeah |
| 21:46:45 | amiconn | Oh, and of course ata transfers have to be run in parallel, which are done by the cpu |
| 21:46:58 | amiconn | ...to/from uncached memory (!) |
| 21:47:41 | Zagor | yeah but ata is a lot of waiting for the disk, so it's not terribly bus intensive |
| 21:48:45 | amiconn | Waiting for the disk? |
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| 21:49:06 | | Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-435403e9.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:49:25 | Zagor | amiconn: yes, when reading from the disk most of the time spent is waiting for the disk to produce the data |
| 21:49:33 | amiconn | I doubt that |
| 21:50:04 | amiconn | Once the disk found the sector(s), the bottleneck is most likely our transfer function, not the disk |
| 21:50:09 | | Join maddler [0] (n=maddler@217-133-171-24.b2b.tiscali.it) |
| 21:50:37 | Zagor | maybe. in any case, we'll see how it turns out. |
| 21:51:03 | amiconn | Well, PP OF disk modes vary a lot in speed |
| 21:51:41 | | Quit gromit` ("Coyote finally caught me") |
| 21:51:51 | amiconn | iPod emergency diskmode is very slow on G5, and reportedly on Nano. OF diskmode is also slow on H10 (at least the small one) |
| 21:52:22 | amiconn | On the other iPods, emergency diskmode is fast (e.g. my Mini G2). The Apple OF diskmode is always fast |
| 21:52:31 | | Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye") |
| 21:52:37 | | Quit alteregoa (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 21:53:25 | Zagor | yeah from what I can tell depending on how much effort you are willing to put in the resulting speed can vary a lot. the simplest code will not be very fast. |
| 21:54:04 | * | amiconn wonders whether one of the OFs on PP use DMA for the harddisk |
| 21:54:24 | amiconn | We don't, as we don't know how (yet?) |
| 21:54:26 | | Quit sarixe ("(EE) Failed to load "quit" module") |
| 21:54:37 | Zagor | I was just thinking that too. dma would be nice. |
| 21:54:54 | * | Zagor summons Mr.H :) |
| 21:55:48 | amiconn | On Coldfire it doesn't pay off, as the CPU transfer is faster. It uses line-bursts for memory access. DMA *could* do that, using DMA auto-align, but for some reason that doesn't work for ata |
| 21:55:56 | * | keanu thinks Mr.H is one of the 144 other people in this channel ;) |
| 21:55:58 | Bagder | like this http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/SIDMA_interface.txt ? |
| 21:56:50 | Zagor | ahh. I'll admit I haven't read that thoroughly yet |
| 21:58:21 | Zagor | definitely something to play with |
| 22:00 |
| 22:01:36 | | Join gromit` [0] (n=gromit@ras75-5-82-234-244-69.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:05:46 | preglow | aRGH |
| 22:06:01 | preglow | if only this would work :/// |
| 22:06:08 | preglow | i hate unfinished stuff |
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| 22:07:08 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:08:25 | | Quit nomel ("CGI:IRC") |
| 22:08:35 | | Join chuklz [0] (n=chatzill@69.37.94.165) |
| 22:09:21 | chuklz | Does anybody know of the port to the Gigabeat S and its progress? |
| 22:09:44 | krazykit | there's a thread in NewPorts, i believe |
| 22:09:51 | Bagder | and a wiki page |
| 22:10:01 | chuklz | yes |
| 22:10:10 | chuklz | but i didnt know if there has been any more progress |
| 22:10:14 | chuklz | because I |
| 22:10:31 | krazykit | if there was more progress, you would see new revisions in the wiki or new posts in the thread. |
| 22:10:40 | chuklz | I'm wanting to change over to linux several times, and the only thing holding me back is gigabeat |
| 22:11:11 | chuklz | okay thanks |
| 22:11:53 | krazykit | chuklz, pm for an offtopic suggestion? |
| 22:12:00 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 22:12:18 | chuklz | alright |
| 22:14:38 | | Quit chuklz ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]") |
| 22:17:48 | | Join egolost [0] (i=egolost@soll3-41.cust.blixtvik.net) |
| 22:19:00 | egolost | hmmm.. Is it prefarable to keep the music in the same dir on my sansa when using rockbox as the OF? |
| 22:19:07 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 22:19:13 | | Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 22:19:20 | n1s | egolost: you can have it in any dir you like |
| 22:19:28 | Bagder | I don't use the OF... |
| 22:19:52 | n1s | or maybe I didn't understand the question |
| 22:21:11 | egolost | n1s: yeah.. well.. the OF on the sansa seems to have problems with malformated mp3 files.. international characters etc with makes it freeze when updateing the db. |
| 22:21:56 | n1s | egolost: I would do what Bagder does then, don't use it ;) |
| 22:22:33 | egolost | So if i place it somewhere outside the music dir maybe it wont scan those but still rockbox will. |
| 22:22:37 | Bagder | Nexia NX5850 has hardware decoders... |
| 22:23:26 | Zagor | egolost: it scans all dirs |
| 22:23:27 | egolost | nls: Ill love to not use the OF but theres no firmware support for the USB yet in rockbox. |
| 22:23:32 | pixelma | egolost: the OF scans all the dirs on my c200. I have no music in their "music" folder and it still scans and also finds them |
| 22:23:57 | Bagder | "Media Interfaces and 8bit RISC MCU of 8051 Compatible" |
| 22:23:58 | egolost | pixelma: ok, then that wont solve it. |
| 22:24:26 | n1s | Bagder: that will be a challange to port rockbox to :) |
| 22:24:31 | Bagder | yeah |
| 22:24:45 | Bagder | I'll smack him with the details ;-) |
| 22:26:28 | Zagor | ooh, 8051! |
| 22:26:34 | Bagder | hehe |
| 22:26:44 | Bagder | that nice 90s feeling... |
| 22:27:04 | Bagder | http://www.epform.com/Downloads/NX5850_datasheetV0.5.pdf |
| 22:29:26 | Zagor | who has that nexia? some forum guy? |
| 22:29:37 | Bagder | posted to the dev list |
| 22:29:51 | Zagor | oh |
| 22:32:26 | preglow | arghgh, stupid bug ://// |
| 22:33:26 | preglow | 427% realtime on uwb file |
| 22:33:50 | Zagor | reboot |
| 22:33:51 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
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| 22:36:09 | | Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 22:36:50 | Nico_P | Zagor: are you sure the default on logf should be to disable? I'm having second thoughts... Maybe a LOGF_DISABLE define would be better |
| 22:37:28 | Zagor | why? |
| 22:37:44 | preglow | holy sheeyat, from 225% to 427% just optimising qmf_synth()! |
| 22:38:28 | Nico_P | Zagor: I'm thinking it could be impractical for someone not knowing where a bug is to have to enable logf in all files |
| 22:38:41 | Nico_P | whereas we know in which files its output is a pain |
| 22:39:24 | Zagor | Nico_P: logf is not useful for finding random bugs anyway. having to disable all output when you want to use logf for development is a pain |
| 22:40:41 | Nico_P | yeah makes sense |
| 22:41:35 | Zagor | oh man, Debian royally screwed by keyboard |
| 22:41:59 | Zagor | arrow-up is now "screenshot"... |
| 22:42:11 | * | Zagor sighs |
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| 22:46:40 | preglow | Nico_P: yeah, i agree with zagor here. a random developer never looks at the full logf output to find a bug, he/she wouldn't know enough about the subsystems in question to know what all the output means anyway |
| 22:46:48 | Nico_P | ok |
| 22:46:51 | preglow | so it's just garbage |
| 22:47:07 | Nico_P | the commit is almost ready |
| 22:47:07 | preglow | in the meanwhile, it's very annoying with all the random output for me when i want to find one of my bugs |
| 22:47:36 | Llorean | I do think you may want full LOGF though? |
| 22:47:57 | Llorean | I seem to recall a few instances where the H100 went into hard freeze, and it was useful to see what the last things in logf were immediately before it. |
| 22:48:40 | Llorean | Could there be a switch/define for enabling all of them, in all files, in just such a situation should it be wanted? |
| 22:48:41 | preglow | then enable them all |
| 22:48:51 | Nico_P | then maybe in that case you could coumment out the part in logf.h that allows fine tuning |
| 22:49:18 | preglow | it would be one #define to comment out per file |
| 22:49:26 | preglow | but sure, it would be easy for a big switch too |
| 22:49:30 | Llorean | preglow: How many files? |
| 22:49:36 | amiconn | Well, if there is a #define LOGF_ENABLE, it should be simple |
| 22:49:59 | amiconn | Right now we have ROCKBOX_HAS_LOGF to enable the logf feature itself |
| 22:50:42 | | Quit bertrik ("bye") |
| 22:50:44 | preglow | #if defined(TAGCACHE_LOGF) || defined(ALL_LOGF) \ #define TC_LOGF() real_logf \ #else #define TC_LOGF() nothing-here \ #endif |
| 22:50:47 | Llorean | So then add LOGF_ENABLE_ALL to enable it in all files, otherwise it has to be un-disabled on a file by file basis? |
| 22:50:53 | Nico_P | amiconn: absence of LOGF_ENABLE overrides ROCKBOX_HAS_LOGF |
| 22:51:00 | amiconn | The LOGF() macro would need to be changed to only output something if both ROCKBOX_HAS_LOGF and LOGF_ENABLE are defined |
| 22:51:12 | | Quit gromit` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:51:23 | amiconn | Each file you want to debug then needs #define LOGF_ENABLE at the top |
| 22:51:36 | Nico_P | that's it |
| 22:51:42 | amiconn | ...and if you want it globally, just put that define in your config.h |
| 22:52:22 | preglow | amiconn: anyway, what sample rate does our current mp3 voice clips use? |
| 22:52:35 | amiconn | 12kHz |
| 22:52:35 | Nico_P | http://pastebin.com/m38c4b6fa |
| 22:52:40 | amiconn | mono |
| 22:53:17 | preglow | amiconn: 16khz good quality speex now decodes at 608% realtime |
| 22:53:23 | preglow | soon a bit more |
| 22:53:27 | preglow | this is coldfire |
| 22:53:36 | | Quit ilgufo ("So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish - http://gufo.wordpress.com") |
| 22:53:43 | amiconn | How much iram does it need? |
| 22:53:45 | rasher | preglow: is this voicefile quality? |
| 22:53:50 | | Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (i=parafin@paraf.in) |
| 22:53:51 | | Nick Soap__ is now known as Soap (n=Soap@cpe-65-189-128-141.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 22:53:51 | amiconn | And what about PP? |
| 22:54:01 | Nico_P | amiconn: nothing wrong with the #undef / #define ? |
| 22:54:03 | preglow | amiconn: pp won't get this fast, but that's also all i can say |
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| 22:54:40 | preglow | rasher: http://www.pvv.org/~thomj/rockbox/speex/interview_wb_q8.spx |
| 22:54:54 | preglow | rasher: and that's cbr, vbr is even better |
| 22:55:01 | * | amiconn now has a really crazy ARM7 vector_add() ... |
| 22:55:29 | preglow | amiconn: the emac unit really, really helped for this one function, and we all know how "good" arm is at tasks like that |
| 22:56:22 | amiconn | Yeah, but at least arm (well, arm7) profits from using load/store multiple |
| 22:56:32 | | Quit J3TC- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:56:39 | preglow | amiconn: 16 bit variables :/ |
| 22:56:48 | amiconn | Then use some tricks... |
| 22:56:53 | preglow | amiconn: which isn't automatically bad on arm either, but not as easy to use as with emac |
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| 22:57:05 | preglow | amiconn: especially since mul and mla doesn't have parallel shifts |
| 22:57:17 | amiconn | That's what I do in my vector_add, vector_sub and scalarproduct |
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| 22:58:18 | preglow | then i'll have a look at those when i do arm |
| 22:58:21 | amiconn | I know, however, on arm7, it pays off to e.g. load 4 regs (8 values) operand1, 4 regs (8values) operand 2, and then dissect each register into 2x 16bit and do the mla |
| 22:58:45 | amiconn | ..rather than using ldrsh for each and every value |
| 22:58:56 | preglow | is ldrsh also 3 cycles? |
| 22:58:59 | amiconn | 8 times ldrsh needs 24 cycles |
| 22:59:01 | amiconn | yes |
| 22:59:30 | amiconn | ldmia into 4 regs needs 6 cycles, so you have 12 cycles for decomposing until yoU#re not faster anymore |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:01 | amiconn | Erm, 18 cycles of course |
| 23:00:12 | amiconn | And you need 12, i.e. you save 6 |
| 23:03:06 | preglow | haha |
| 23:03:40 | preglow | this function does 640 outerloop iters with 64 innerloop iters for uwb files, plus another call with 320x64 |
| 23:03:45 | preglow | no wonder it got faster |
| 23:03:58 | preglow | the innerloop does 16xmac |
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| 23:06:49 | Neo | hello? |
| 23:07:49 | | Quit Neo (Client Quit) |
| 23:08:00 | preglow | patience.. |
| 23:08:05 | * | Bagder is quiet |
| 23:08:11 | preglow | amiconn: do you know what notation gas uses for the shifting mac.x operation? |
| 23:10:03 | amiconn | Umm, no. Never used those yet |
| 23:10:22 | preglow | i'll need it now for free clipping |
| 23:10:26 | * | preglow tries a couple of things |
| 23:11:07 | | Quit evil-rhino (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:11:44 | amiconn | But gas understands both motorola and MIT syntax. You can even mix them within one instruction |
| 23:13:14 | preglow | mac.l %rx, %ry, #1/#-1, %accx |
| 23:13:16 | preglow | that seems to work |
| 23:13:18 | preglow | and do what it should |
| 23:13:39 | preglow | amiconn: gas eats all kind of weird stuff, i accidentally wrote "addl." once, it ate it with no complaints |
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| 23:16:02 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 23:28:52 | preglow | geh |
| 23:28:54 | preglow | one bit errors |
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| 23:34:21 | preglow | amiconn: the clipping i do is right, right? http://www.pvv.org/~thomj/rockbox/filters_cf.S |
| 23:34:31 | preglow | as per your last pastebin |
| 23:36:25 | amiconn | Looks correct |
| 23:37:33 | preglow | some place in there there's a one bit error |
| 23:37:43 | preglow | and an extra invert, but that should be easy to find |
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| 23:48:58 | nomel | any plan for audio dsp plugin support? |
| 23:50:37 | preglow | no |
| 23:50:41 | | Join safetydan [0] (i=dc9d468b@rockbox/developer/safetydan) |
| 23:50:46 | preglow | what plugins do you want? |
| 23:50:55 | preglow | safetydan: feeling up for some audio eq screen refurbishing? :P |
| 23:51:33 | safetydan | preglow, hah. I was just on the train to work writing down some thoughts on how to redo that screen |
| 23:52:12 | preglow | safetydan: that's extremely cool, we've had a chat about it here too |
| 23:53:44 | n1s | I defiantly liked the previus suggestions vertical sliders/one screen to rule them all (all the bands that is) |
| 23:53:47 | preglow | there's some eq chatter from about 20:35 and on |
| 23:53:49 | preglow | a bit gui talk |
| 23:53:58 | | Join Chuklz [0] (n=Chuklz@69.37.94.165) |
| 23:54:46 | Chuklz | Hello I need some help |
| 23:55:23 | | Part Chuklz ("Leaving") |
| 23:57:30 | nomel | preglow: something a little more advanced than crossfeed. something like 4front headphones [http://www.yohng.com/headphones.html] or atsurround processor by adrewlabs [http://www.andrewlabs.com/]. |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).