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#rockbox log for 2007-10-27

00:00:14J3TC-Compiled fine with no problems and it's playing music fine and the plugins work fine too
00:00:27 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:01:08CiNc028ill take your advice. because this is the first time im dealing with an ipod.
00:07:06 Join lee-qid [0] (
00:07:39 Quit davina ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04")
00:10:22 Quit lee-qid (Client Quit)
00:11:07 Quit desowin ("use linux")
00:11:57lostlogicJ3TC-: thanks :) I'll be posting a more intrusive one shortly :-P
00:13:25 Quit cooz ("zzz")
00:13:51J3TC-Cool, don't know what your patch does but good work ;)
00:15:34lostlogicJ3TC-: just trying to clean up some potential and real bugs in MoB wihle Nico_P isn't looking :)
00:15:58J3TC-Lol, ninja-like
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00:17:41 Quit CiNc028 ()
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00:18:25 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
00:18:39 Join pauljam [0] (
00:19:18pauljamdo i have to run as root?
00:19:50Bagderit depends on what paths you use
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00:24:01rasherpauljam: if you modify it's paths it's entirely possible to run as any user. By default it needs root (or some rather strange peculiar permissions)
00:26:15BigBambioops, wrong window :)
00:30:02 Join pauljam_ [0] (
00:30:03BigBambiiPod hardware bods - are there any hardware restrictions on key combinations (such as on the H1x0 you can only have play + something)
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00:42:31 Part przemhb
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00:46:40 Join Zagor_ [0] (
00:46:49 Part hcs
00:47:51 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
00:51:54 Part linuxstb
00:53:07toffe82Zagor: what do you need to know on the gigabeat S ?
00:53:47 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
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00:54:23Zagortoffe82: the contents of memory address 0x43F88000, 0x43F88120 and 0x43F88124 would be interesting. all are 32-bit words.
00:56:14toffe82Zagor: how can I read them ?
00:56:55Zagoryou need to modify the source to read them and output them on the screen or in a file.
00:57:06toffe82Zagor: :)
00:58:05toffe82Zagor: what are they suppose to contain ? the config of the usb ?
00:58:18Zagoryes, the module version and some parameters
00:58:21JRoTZagor any progress with the usb speed of writing on the sansa?
00:58:23 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:59:24ZagorJRoT: no, I'm a bit stuck at the moment trying to find information that can help me proceed
00:59:57toffe82Zagor: ther is a download with some source code for usb on coldfire on the freescale site, perhaps it can be of some inspiration
01:00:26toffe82the coldfire_usb_lite_cmx
01:00:27Zagoreverything is worth a look at this point...
01:00:36 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:01:10Zagormeh, is anyone registered there?
01:01:42 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
01:02:14Zagorhaha, apparently I already am...
01:03:33toffe82if you don't want to register, I can send it to you
01:04:25 Quit ender` (" I love deadlines. I especially like the whooshing sound they make as they go flying by. -- Douglas Adams")
01:05:19ZagorI'd appreciate that. their password recovery function just bounces me to their front page
01:06:11Zagorah, now it worked
01:12:14 Quit PaulJam (".")
01:13:45 Quit criznach ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
01:13:53 Join sd [0] (n=sd@
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01:14:37lostlogicLlorean: did you happen to catch when Nico_P was expecting to be back online?
01:14:52 Quit keanu (Nick collision from services.)
01:15:01 Nick keanu|afk is now known as keanu (n=keanu@unaffiliated/keanu)
01:15:22sdhello there
01:15:24 Join karashata [0] (
01:15:36 Join PaulJam [0] (
01:15:43PaulJami have tried the script, but it seems as if something went wrong, can someone help me?
01:15:56sdjust wondering if someone happened to see STMP35XX_Player_SDK_2.510-RC2.rar file somewhere around
01:16:03sd(tried google, very hard)
01:16:49ZagorPaulJam: looks like your native gcc is broken
01:17:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:17:08Zagor*** The command 'gcc -o conftest -g -O2 conftest.c' failed.
01:17:32rasherPaulJam: is this on linux or cygwin?
01:17:40rasherI'm pretty sure doesn't work on cygwin
01:18:20 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
01:18:29PaulJamthis is on linux (ubuntu 7.10)i just installed it a few hours ago
01:18:51saratogatype which gcc and see what happens
01:19:52bluebrotheryou're missing crt1.o. On my box that's part of the glibc-devel package
01:21:07rasherPaulJam: apt-get install build-essential
01:21:09 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
01:21:52PaulJamah, i see bild-essential is not installed.
01:22:57JRoTI'm going to sleep it 1:23am here atm, good luck with coding especially you Zagor!
01:23:08 Nick JRoT is now known as JRoT|Sleep (
01:23:32rasherZagor: perhaps ac has hints about usb?
01:24:54Zagorrasher: I doubt it. my problems are in things he hadn't started implementing yet
01:24:56PaulJami have now installed build essential, is there a way to skip the downloading part from
01:25:25keanuPaulJam, comment out the lines? ;)
01:25:25bluebrotherI think the script only downloads the tarballs if they are missing
01:29:25 Part toffe82
01:31:25saratogaZagor: what is your current trouble?
01:32:13PaulJamlooks like it is compiling now, thanks for the help
01:32:33Zagorsaratoga: I don't understand the relation between on-bus packet size and the size of the transactions I send to the controller. as far as I understand from the docs, they should not be related. but they are.
01:34:09saratogais it possible to implement rudimentary UMS support without dealing with this problem?
01:34:36Zagornot reliably.
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01:42:49lostlogicLlorean: you said you'd explicitly gotten a data abort when hitting the buffering info screen during buffering, right? I know why.
01:42:55lostlogicat least mostly.
01:45:48 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:46:27jhMikeSlostlogic: I tend to take the approach that if I don't know why exactly, then I plain don't know. It's only a guess then. :)
01:47:07lostlogicwell I know the proximate cause for sure :-P I just may not entirely know the root cause
01:47:20 Quit PaulJam (".")
01:48:21jhMikeSI usually take that as a hint to keep staring instead of coding :p
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02:03:49jhMikeSSomething else weird happens in the sim at least. If you back up in the buffer debug screen enough so it has to refill, it never stops reading metadata.
02:04:25lostlogicjhMikeS: oh good (sorta) I've had that happen with my changes and thought I'd caused it.
02:04:40lostlogicjhMikeS: want to look at the patch I'm working on?
02:07:58jhMikeSsure. I'm making some coffee atm but will brb.
02:08:33lostlogicthe data aborts are caused by a bad poitner getting into the linked list somehow, still havent found where that bad pointer gets in −− my latest test was to make things volatile to see if it might just ahve been a half-set poitner
02:15:05lostlogichmm, I think I finally made enough of the right things volatile to have a noticeable improvement.
02:16:13jhMikeSwhy would volatile help anything? does something loop on something that gets changed externally? I don't recall seeing such things.
02:16:42lostlogicwaht actually made a difference was making the next poiners within the loop volatile
02:17:14lostlogicthere are lots of times when the next poitners (and the three poitners into the list) are accessed and they could be modified on another thread,
02:17:17jhMikeS(can't get to patch btw)
02:17:53lostlogicmy bad //test.lostlogicx.comtransfer/rockbox/20071026_buffering_adjustments2.patch
02:17:59lostlogicgah, I still suck
02:18:28jhMikeSthen the list operations need locking.
02:18:49lostlogicall list modifications are locked
02:18:56lostlogicbut not all list reads can practically be
02:19:11lostlogicand so a locked write and an unlocked read are where it goes kaboom
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02:20:23jhMikeSsure...volatile is still a race condition there. the scheduler locks lists (usually by exchanging a busy value into the pointer), read or write. it must.
02:21:10jhMikeSI guess I need to look more closely to tell for sure myself anyway. I'm not too intimiate with this code yet.
02:21:16lostlogicyeah, I know it's still a race condition, but I'm so far at a loss on how to solve it. The reads are very frequent so any locking I can think of would come at too great of a cost
02:21:38 Join thegeek [0] (
02:21:41 Part pixelma
02:22:17jhMikeShow often is the readin?
02:23:01 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
02:23:02lostlogicevery single call to the buffering API _potentially_ reads throught he list and at least reads from a list entry.
02:23:40lostlogicI guess one way to improve it would be to cache a whole entry off-list for the always-read part and lock around all actual list access.
02:24:26lostlogicstill not sure what si up with the forever spinning
02:24:37jhMikeSI'm mean are we talking 100,000 accesses/sec or 10,000 or 100?
02:26:32lostlogicdepends on the codec −− each data request from the codec is a potential list access
02:26:45lostlogicso I think that puts it in the 100s range though
02:27:09 Join Mouser_X [0] (n=someone@
02:27:45jhMikeSbah, wouldn't think twice about mutexes then. Heck, full turnarounds on queue_send (which is rather elaborate) are just microseconds.
02:28:08lostlogichmm, OK −− I'll work on it.
02:28:22Nico_Plostlogic: I feel stupid for making the mistake you fixed in your commit :p
02:28:30lostlogicNico_P: :-P
02:28:40*Nico_P starts reading the logs
02:28:53jhMikeSIf a mutex isn't locked, it's a very cheap op. Those queue_send benchmarks involved the full block/wake routines.
02:28:55lostlogicI'm planning to abuse your code soundly with my next one, whenever I get it owrking acceptably
02:29:17Nico_Plostlogic: what are you going to fo?
02:29:19 Quit zicho (Remote closed the connection)
02:29:19lostlogicjhMikeS: that's a good poitn, so my objective is to avoid it becoming a contested lock
02:29:44jhMikeSeven that's just a few uS and will happen infrequently
02:29:58lostlogicthe big change that I have written already and which I'll sort out fromt he rest and have you review is reworking move_handle and add_handle to better ensure contiguous allocations for those things which need them.
02:31:22Nico_Psounds nice
02:31:55 Quit zardos ("CGI:IRC")
02:34:29lostlogicit includes one additional call to update_data_counters and some const-ificatin of things that aren't modified just for tightness-sake too.
02:34:51lostlogicNico_P: I _don't think_ it makes anything worse and it improves certain cases for me
02:34:59lostlogicbut please let me know if I've broken anything for you.
02:35:08lostlogicor if you see problems in the code
02:36:47Nico_Plooking now, but I'm sleepy ;)
02:37:22lostlogicNico_P: *nod* I'm not in a rush to commit, I'm going to be working on what mike and I were just talking about in the hopse of getting some mor complete fixage to go with it
02:37:36jhMikeSlostlogic: speed me up here: what lines are you referring to exactly?
02:37:53jhMikeS(patched lines)
02:38:49lostlogicthe data aborts happen on the m->filerem > 0 check in fill_buffer() and find_handle on the m && m->id != handle_id check
02:39:03lostlogicwhich are both places where the LL is being iterated outside of a lock
02:39:27lostlogicermh wait, I lied... one of those is in a lock, now I'm confused again
02:39:55Nico_Plostlogic: I think I got SID related segafaults in the sim with m && m->id != handle_id... m was totally bogus
02:40:30Nico_Phmm actually that may have been after a bit of hackery...
02:40:32lostlogicNico_P: yeah −− which I'm still trying to figure out how it gets bogus since all of the handle variables are only written to inside of locks
02:41:14lostlogicugh, I must be missing something.
02:42:31Mouser_XNico_P: I saw someone earlier (hours ago, now) say that there were problems transitioning between NSFs and MP3s (or SPCs and MP3s). Did this get fixed?
02:42:38 Join zerdik [0] (
02:42:51Nico_PMouser_X: I haven't had time to investigate enough, so no
02:42:54lostlogicMouser_X: check with the commit that I just did −− that could impact codec changes.
02:43:09Nico_Pyes, very true... what a dumb mistake
02:43:17Nico_PI'm so lucky it actually worked at times
02:43:31Nico_Por maybe if it hadn't I would've seen the mistake
02:44:29jhMikeSare lists linked in a FIFO order?
02:44:29lostlogicI think the current problem may still relate to move_handle and add handle's placement of the struct and its data, now that I'm playing with it more −− I'll hafta keep analzying both my and the previous versions of that code
02:44:36Nico_PMouser_X: expect some instability though... we can't solve all bugs within minutes, especially not the poor guys I dropped the bomb on
02:44:40lostlogicjhMikeS: should be yes.
02:44:50lostlogicjhMikeS: but it's not a strict contract
02:45:06Mouser_XNico_P: You need not worry. I was simply wondering. I haven't updated yet.
02:45:17Mouser_X(The new stuff breaks some patches I want.)
02:45:41Mouser_X(^ This does not surprise me, but it is somewhat disappointing.)
02:45:41lostlogicMouser_X: :( update −− the more the testing the more the better :0
02:46:15 Join donutman25 [0] (n=chatzill@
02:46:59*jhMikeS has his finger on the concurrency alarm button but isn't sure what he's seeing yet
02:47:14Mouser_XI like my GBS and MOD files though (7331 and 5241). When I build with those patches, I get errors, and it fails.
02:47:28Nico_Plostlogic: it's very possible your commit fixed FS #8027
02:47:50lostlogicjhMikeS: I also just realized that I've been analyzing this code as though it's running in a preemptive system, but in our system the traps are smaller, in theory
02:48:12lostlogicNico_P: that's what I was hoping, but I didn't have that explicit problem so cuoldn't test ;)
02:48:14Nico_Plostlogic: it doesn't hurt to think preemptive IIUC
02:48:25jhMikeSlostlogic: I made the suggestion of using a linear buffer with 64-bit nonwrapping values which would make the ringbuffer stuff unnescessary and simplify stuff.
02:48:35zerdiki have an archos v1 recorder, a 250gb ata hdd, and i read the bigdisk wiki entry. did i understand correctly that i could use the drive with 2 125GB partitions (only one updatable by usb). Has anyone actually ever done this with a 250GB hdd?
02:49:03lostlogicjhMikeS: I don't follow −− how would it be addressed when a codec needs X amount of contiguous data??
02:49:04Nico_PjhMikeS: I've been thinking about that, but what happens when the counter wraps?
02:49:10jhMikeSlostlogic: until an unexpected yield happens somewhere. then that is a preemption.
02:49:22lostlogicjhMikeS: yeah
02:49:29jhMikeSNico_P: a 64-bit counter won't wrap in your lifetime
02:49:46Nico_Phehe, all right :)
02:49:53preglowwe're talking preemption, hooray!
02:49:56jhMikeSsimple adds and subtracts are really efficient with that
02:50:26Nico_PjhMikeS: so that would rid us of the RIINGBUF_* macros?
02:50:33jhMikeSUsing a non-wrapping 64-bit counter on a pcm buffer takes around 3,300,000 years to wrap
02:50:59karashataNico_P, and whoever else is working on the MoB stuff related to swapping codecs: SPC to MP3 gives an unidentified instruction at 000FAB5C (0)
02:51:07jhMikeSNico_P: yeah, and you can normalize them occasionally too
02:51:09*lostlogic still doesn't get how the addressing works, sigh
02:51:14karashatamost recent build, fyi
02:51:16scorchezerdik: that depends on how you define "GB"...
02:51:23Nico_Pkarashata: still, I aw going to ask you for an update on the tracker?
02:51:35lostlogickarashata: aww :(
02:51:56zerdikscorche: the commercial way, i guess, not GiB..
02:52:03lostlogicI was afraid my commit wouldn't work, the fact is that even without that request the buffer should eventually have satisfied the needed data
02:52:04karashatalooks like the data aborts are gone, I'll do some more tests and post the results on the tracker
02:52:38Nico_Pkarashata: r15324 may have fixed them
02:53:04keanui'm trying to build a windows version of the uisimulator on linux, but mingw32 isn't installed (no root available) - which source code package should I use?
02:53:16karashatanope, actually, second attempt gave me a data abort at 000831C (0) and a UI at 000FAF20 (0)
02:53:29Nico_PjhMikeS: why are you going to press the concurrency alarm button?
02:53:54preglowwhy does codec swap sometimes hang depending on codec?
02:53:59lostlogickarashata: do you know how to map that down to a function from the build you're running? if so that would be useful (although I can look at it and make a decent guess as to where it is)
02:54:07keanujust follow the process at
02:54:08preglowsounds like something that should have happened also prior to MoB to me
02:54:34lostlogicpreglow: yeah, I can't figure out how which codec the changes is matters.
02:54:47preglowlostlogic: so the issue is some codec does something nasty?
02:55:02 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
02:55:07jhMikeSNico_P: don't know thread sense is tingling a bit though :)
02:55:12preglowfrom the playback.c side of things, a codec should be a codec
02:55:36lostlogicpreglow: hmm, could be that the new buffer doesn't like switching if all bytes of a previous file weren't raed, but that doesn't really make sense to me
02:55:45karashatalostlogic: no idea, I'm trying to switch between files with different codecs from the file browser if that helps, though
02:55:57 Join Mouser_X [0] (n=someone@
02:55:57preglowplayback.c has always been magic to me :)
02:56:22preglowi still keep to low-level stuff, mostly
02:56:38lostlogicpreglow: yeah, it's a good thing we all have different skills ;)
02:56:46jhMikeSNico_P: I was thinking....bytes_in/bytes_out (not wrapped, 64-bit). head/tail (32-bit, always wrapped). tail moves as much as bytes_in, head as much as bytes_out.
02:57:20scorchezerdik: yes, that should be fine
02:57:24 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:57:30preglowi don't know what the hell i qualify as, my most recent undertaking had me looking at a one line bug for four fucking hours
02:57:30Nico_PjhMikeS: why both?
02:57:37preglowi guess that qualifies me as a retard :P
02:58:06preglowbut it is a fast piece of code, though
02:58:14keanuanyone have tips for how to compiling mingw32 for uisimulator?
02:58:22lostlogicthat's alright, a typo earlier this week _almost_ caused amazon to stop shipping stuff.
02:58:28jhMikeSNico_P: it requires it, but checks are easy. buffer full when = bytes_in - bytes_out = bufsize, empty when bytes_in == bytes_out. the head/tail alleviate the need for division.
02:58:56preglowlostlogic: god help me the day my actions can affect companies of that size
02:59:19preglowgod help you too, hopefully
02:59:26preglowyou'll need it if i end up someplace like that
02:59:31lostlogichahaha, indeed indeed
02:59:39Nico_PjhMikeS: sounds good
02:59:42zerdikscorche: can the folder structure of the two partitions overlap? or do all folder names need to exist uniquely on one of the partitions only?
02:59:50*Nico_P has a lot on his plate for tomorrow
03:00:16Nico_Plostlogic: what time is it at your place?
03:00:29preglow03:00 here :/
03:00:46Nico_Ppreglow: same here... way past bed time
03:00:51preglowi just got home
03:00:54lostlogicI'm about to go to my home and cnotinue staring at this
03:01:20Nico_Plostlogic: maybe mail me a patch then... unless you're confident enough to commit ;)
03:01:22preglowjust the right time to go hunting for another beer
03:01:31lostlogicNico_P: yeah, we'll see which way it goes
03:01:33jhMikeSNico_P: with the window, checks for whether data is availabe in the buffer or not are just trivial as heck and it never can alias.
03:01:41lostlogicI'll be on some this weekend to talk about it
03:01:50 Quit kugel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:01:55Nico_PjhMikeS: yeah I liked how it was done in the kernel for queues
03:02:12scorchezerdik: i would imagine it would be fine, but you might want to test before believing me wholly :)
03:02:18Nico_Plostlogic: cool. I should be too, but mostly in the daytime, and I'm GMT+1
03:02:27preglowNico_P: exactly where?
03:02:34Nico_Ppreglow: Paris
03:02:43preglowahh, right, that would be the same as here
03:02:47jhMikeSNico_P: of course it has the luxury of int power of 2 sizes. :)
03:02:51lostlogicyeah, our daytime overlap is even smaller now that I'm in Seattle than it was when I was in Chicago
03:03:16*preglow has no idea where in the us either are :>
03:03:20karashatathis isn't looking good
03:03:39karashataseems like things almost got worse for the ones that weren't working before...
03:03:41Nico_Plostlogic: OTOH that can mean almost all day bug fixing ;)
03:03:50jhMikeSpreglow: in texas :p
03:04:01lostlogicpreglow: Chicago is 1/3 from East to West and 1/3 from North to South, Seattle is in the North West corner
03:04:12lostlogicNico_P: indeed :)
03:04:19preglowi thought it was the other way around :P
03:04:36preglowthen again, i always sucked in a major way in anything even relating to geography
03:04:54preglowi've never even been to the us
03:04:55Nico_PjhMikeS: I didn't understand the power of 2 comment...?
03:05:00lostlogicpreglow: I do too, anywhere I haven't driven/motorbiked to I don't know where it is
03:05:13preglowlostlogic: exactly my position as well
03:05:28 Join Mouser_X [0] (n=someone@
03:05:39lostlogicalright, I go home now, will hopefully get a patch worked up tonight that solves my personal data aborts. 'night to you GMT+1ers
03:05:46preglowlostlogic: it's the same thing with geography as anything else with me, if i haven't had a practical use for the information, i don't remember it
03:05:53lostlogicpreglow: yep.
03:06:01jhMikeSNico_P: can just wrap with logical-and (mask) so doesn't need the other wrapped pointers to avoid modular division.
03:06:08 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:06:27preglowlostlogic: gnight anyway
03:06:35Nico_PjhMikeS: ok, I thought it might be that... quite elegant :)
03:06:41preglowi need smokes
03:07:17jhMikeSsmokes, beer
03:07:57jhMikeSNico_P: it was always like that
03:08:23Nico_PjhMikeS: I don't look at kernel.c much...
03:09:15preglowhave beer, can't find any smokes yet :/
03:09:18jhMikeSNico_P: I think I live there nowadays...never officially changed my address though
03:09:36jhMikeSbeer without smokes is like smokes without beer :p
03:09:37preglowand it's too bloody cold outside for 7-11
03:10:35preglowhahah, i DID find my pipe and tobacco :P
03:10:47keanurasher, around?
03:11:02jhMikeS"tobacco" D
03:11:09preglowhaha, it actually is tobacco
03:11:17preglowwhisky flavoured and everything
03:11:44Nico_Plostlogic: if you commit (or even send me patches), it could be good to split things like the const changes from the rest... Maybe also separate comment changes
03:12:44preglowjhMikeS: also, it's bloody dry as hell :P
03:13:02jhMikeShmmm...whiskey...and xanax...a mild sleep helper :p
03:13:09 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:13:38preglowi think those two combined would be more than just a mild sleep helper for me, yea
03:14:20 Join Mouser_X [0] (n=someone@
03:17:04markunnighty guys
03:17:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:17:17jhMikeSpreglow: I think this is the first time in awhile I've seen you actually have beer. Seems you can't get 'em both together. (of course this _is_ all relevent and on-topic)
03:17:42jhMikeSg'night markun
03:17:48preglowjhMikeS: what, both talk about beer _and_ have one? :P
03:18:03preglowmarkun: nightie
03:18:12jhMikeSand have a smoke too
03:18:19markunnah, I quit :)
03:18:25preglowoh, me too
03:18:27markunbut I had 0.5 liter of Grolsch
03:18:29preglowcan't help it when i drink
03:18:53preglowi'm bloody smoking a year and a half old tobacco, yes, this is an emergency
03:19:07jhMikeSQuitting's for quitters
03:20:24karashataokay, tests are all done, comment is on FS #8027
03:20:27preglowi tend to quit smoking when i'm working out as well, the two of them are kind of mutually exclusive :P
03:20:50*jhMikeS would prefer tobacco awareness concentrate on where to get discount cartons
03:20:54karashatalooks like the same codecs are having issues, the ones that worked still work so you guys haven't broken anything new
03:21:07preglowjhMikeS: you probably have nothing to complain about, how much is a pack for you?
03:21:23jhMikeSpreglow: depends. locally, about $5
03:21:49preglowjhMikeS: 11$ here, minimum
03:23:03markunpreglow: luckily a dollar is not very expensive these days :)
03:23:04preglowthe usual routine is, if someone complains about prices and isn't from norway, i have a really good case when i tell them to stop bitching :D
03:23:05jhMikeSoh, don't get me on politics here now (tax objector, small-government type here).
03:23:32preglowmarkun: anything from the us is pretty much free these days, yeah :P
03:23:35preglowhooray deficit!
03:24:45preglowluckily, i'm on norway, so anything i order from outside the country is taxed to pieces at the border
03:26:11jhMikeSwell, start diggin a secret tunnel to the us. then you can workout and get smokes.
03:26:29preglowwithout being short of breath? hooray! :D
03:27:18preglowonly kind of tunnel i've made in my life has been through snow, so i don't know if i'm up to it, though
03:27:43jhMikeSbreath is overrated...moderation is key
03:28:29preglowstill doesn't keep me from being a bad tunneller :)
03:28:36scorchepreglow: no ssh?
03:28:46preglowno, no ssh
03:28:48preglowi'm not paranoid
03:28:59preglowi only talk shit anyway, whoever wants to read can do so
03:29:00keanuok, since rasher's idle - i'm trying to compile a sim on linux and zip it up, like on rasher's site. however, the zip turns out to be nearly 9 megs, without rockboxui added. what's causing the size to be do high?
03:29:05keanu*be so high
03:29:13preglowkeanu: unzip it and see
03:29:33preglowi'm in windows right now so can't check out
03:31:22keanupreglow, 18 megs of plugins/viewers, 4.2 megs of codecs, and wps, docs, langs, and the other directories are under 1 meg each
03:32:13preglowkeanu: well, that all sounds like data that should be there
03:32:23preglowmaybe rockbox is just bloated and huge :)
03:32:31keanupreglow, yes, but rasher's is a mere 2 megs ;)
03:32:52preglowperhaps you need to strip the debug symbols
03:33:13jhMikeSenormous...well, the sim is a big bytier than the fw
03:34:11keanuhow do i strip debug symbols?
03:34:19*keanu hasn't messed with sims a whole lot
03:34:37jhMikeScan't you just build a fully-optimized sim without debug symbols?
03:34:43*Nico_P is off to bed
03:34:54preglowkeanu: don't use -g when you compile, or use the strip command afterwards
03:34:58preglowbear in mind this is just a guess
03:35:07 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
03:35:16jhMikeSwhat about -O levels? never seen it run that way.
03:35:24preglowi've never checked out if the sim is huge
03:35:25keanupreglow, i didn't use -g - just make and make zip
03:35:32preglowjhMikeS: -O and -g can be active at the same time
03:35:40preglowkeanu: -g might be part of the default build
03:35:46preglowyou don't need to pass it, might be in the makefile
03:35:50keanupreglow, ah, ok
03:35:53jhMikeSsure but then code reording can mess up the debugging
03:36:05preglowyup, but plain -O usually fares pretty well with it
03:36:17jhMikeSdoes it reference souce?
03:36:43preglow-g does that, has nothing to do with -O
03:37:14preglowuse -g and -O, and you'll see ton of "value optimized away" in gdb
03:37:35 Join squeaky [0] (
03:37:44preglowanother beer, sir
03:37:51jhMikeSsure. I don't see those, so I've never run a truely optimized sim then, eh?
03:37:59keanupreglow, so don't use either to keep sizes down?
03:38:12preglowi don't know if i've got it from the sim or other software, i just know i've seen it a lot
03:38:39preglowkeanu: just use -O anyway, and sim builds do that, i'm quite sure, but you might need to "strip" afterwards
03:38:50*jhMikeS tries -O3 and no -g :p
03:38:51preglowkeanu: i'd just wait for rasher, were i you, i can't check this out right now
03:39:00keanupreglow, ok, thanks
03:39:06preglowjhMikeS: gdb is rather unhelpful with no -g ...
03:39:06keanuany idea when he'll be back?
03:39:19preglowkeanu: well, chances are good he'll be here tomorrow
03:39:24preglowbut no idea
03:39:26keanuok, thanks
03:39:33jhMikeSpreglow: if you want a build to use as an actual player, who wants -g? (you said you wanted that)
03:39:53preglowjhMikeS: -g just means debug symbols, it doesn't mean "fuck up code and make it slow"
03:40:16preglowbut no, if you have no interest in debugging, don't use it
03:40:30jhMikeSuisdl.c throws a warning about picture_surface possibly not being inited
03:40:40preglownever seen that before
03:41:22preglowbut as far as i know, -O3 and -g just means you get a bigger exe with debug info that doesn't get loaded at runtime anyway
03:41:23jhMikeSIt did with -O3, but not without optimization (or maybe it's the -g)
03:42:21jhMikeSrockboxui is 2890KB for the gigabeatf still
03:42:34preglowafter strip?
03:42:38preglowthat's insane
03:42:39*maxkelley has a few pinouts for the large connector on the c200..
03:42:45jhMikeSwait...I think I need full rebuid :p
03:43:02maxkelleyperhaps this weekend, I will solder wires to the connector and find out the rest.
03:43:22preglowmaxkelley: what's it used for
03:43:24preglow? <-
03:43:39maxkelleypreglow: usb, hopefully audio, power, etc.
03:44:02maxkelleysansa doesn't manufacture any accessories that use it, however.. :P
03:44:15maxkelleyhopefully there's a line-in.
03:44:26preglowdoes e200 have the same thing'
03:44:32maxkelleyer, s/sandisk/sansa
03:44:34maxkelleyI think so.
03:44:35preglowok, i can't hit the correct buttons, it's official
03:44:52*preglow gets more beer
03:44:55jhMikeSpreglow: ah, 720KB now
03:45:03preglowjhMikeS: sounds mor elike it
03:45:11keanupreglow, taking out -g worked
03:45:22keanupreglow, down to 2.3M without rockboxui in it
03:45:49preglowkeanu: sounds about right, then
03:46:00keanupreglow, thanks
03:46:03*jhMikeS proceeds with the full build (-O3, no -g)
03:46:12preglowkeanu: no problem
03:46:19keanujhMikeS, replacing -g with -03?
03:46:27jhMikeSkeanu, yep
03:46:32preglow-Osomething should still be there
03:46:47jhMikeSnow I see the warnings that show up on the build table popping up
03:47:02preglowall two of them? :>
03:47:15jhMikeSthe type-punning one came up
03:47:51jhMikeSwma.c has signed/unsigned type in conditional expression (I always get that though)
03:47:53preglowi've had that for a while, i just figured that was me being 64 bit
03:47:54keanujhMikeS, oh...-O3, not -03 ;)
03:48:06jhMikeSOh-three :)
03:48:18maxkelleyi'm not sure having the pinouts of the connector will be beneficial if people don't solder their own cable :P
03:48:33preglowmaxkelley: why doesn't sansa do any periphs for it?
03:48:43preglowthey just make a connector, then sod off?
03:48:53keanujhMikeS, ok, where exactly in the makefile does that go?
03:49:00*keanu doesn't mess with makefiles much
03:49:05maxkelleyI think there's a few 3rd-party.
03:49:08jhMikeSkeanu: GCCOPTS
03:49:12preglowthen you need to get a new hobby, heh
03:49:16keanujhMikeS, ok, thanks
03:49:40 Part squeaky ("Leaving")
03:50:08*jhMikeS now wonders if any other makefiles add -g for sim?
03:50:32preglowwhy care? it's something people who distribute sims should wonder about
03:50:43preglowsims are a developer thing, really, where you want -g
03:50:52jhMikeSbecause I'll know something I didn't 10 minutes ago?
03:51:00preglowthen go ahead :)
03:51:54jhMikeSalso let's me get alternate timings on threading code just to check
03:52:19zerdikyou can always strip the debugging symbols off the binary later, same result as compiling without -g
03:53:54jhMikeS6*1 or .5*12 :P
03:54:05preglowzerdik: xactly
03:54:43preglowi think we should get rid of the malloc buffer the next few days
03:54:47karashatahmmm... I don't know if this is related to the MoB commit or not, but, after playing through 9 FLAC files my player stopped playing and returned to the file browser
03:54:52preglowthen fix the codecs that stop working
03:55:07preglowthey should be few
03:55:11preglowtremor and aac, really
03:56:18jhMikeSdo any actually use up much of that? can the slack space after the codec be used?
03:56:25preglowjhMikeS: exactly
03:56:32preglowjhMikeS: we should use that as malloc space
03:56:50jhMikeSand it gets swapped automatically too then
03:56:51preglowjhMikeS: i've just had a run over all the codecs, and of all of them only aac and vorbis use malloc much
03:57:17preglowjhMikeS: the two-three others that use malloc only do so for the container or seek tables
03:57:26preglowjhMikeS: both of which fit nicely in the rest of the codec buffer
03:58:02preglowjhMikeS: really, most codecs need really tender treatment to rid them of all dynamic allocation
03:58:08lostlogicanyone know if buffer_len is guaranteed to be aligned to 4 bytes?
03:58:08jhMikeSwell, if the codec buffer needs to grow a little, I guess that wouldn't hurt. cerainly the whole 500KB wouldn't have to go over.
03:58:14preglowjhMikeS: i suspect vorbis will be the hardest, that was made to not have limits
03:58:45preglowjhMikeS: if we use 512kb for codec and codec data, i'd count that as a bug
03:59:02preglowunless the codec creators are insane
03:59:40jhMikeS512KB for mallocbuf, 512KB for executeable
03:59:56pregloweven aac is designed to run well on embedded targets, and that's pretty complex for an audio codec
04:00:08preglowshould fit well within 512kb, code an data combined
04:00:26jhMikeSdata=mallocbuf in your terms?
04:00:31preglowjhMikeS: aye
04:00:36preglowtoo bad we're stuck with faad for a decoder
04:01:05jhMikeSthat's for aac?
04:01:18preglowit's pretty much the only codec i wish we didn't hacve
04:01:19preglowhave <-
04:01:21jhMikeSdoes anyone use that?
04:01:25preglowi think so
04:01:56preglowit's slow as shit on both coldfire and arm
04:02:00 Quit zerdik ("Disconnecting")
04:02:12preglowi had a couple of attempts at it, ended up just doing simple emac opts
04:02:23jhMikeScan't say I ever have...hrm. wma is pretty seeking yet. mostly it's just high-br mp3 for me.
04:02:45preglowseeking isn't a big deal, saratoga will have it going nicely once he has time for it
04:02:58jhMikeSvorbis for stuff that needs perfect gapless
04:02:58preglowi use vorbis, mostly
04:03:15preglowif not for vorbis, i'd use mp3, or possibly musepack
04:03:48preglowi'm pretty much fine with all of them, mp3 gapless is good enough for me
04:04:47preglowmy test gapless album still doesn't sound good enough, but it doesn't in foobar either, so i stopped trying
04:04:50jhMikeSIt's rarely perfect no matter what the encoder does. Lot's of stuff needs it that way where tracks run together.
04:05:07preglowit can't be perfect, pure and simple
04:05:24preglowthe old-fashioned lame gapless way is still the best, but that's imperfect too
04:06:28jhMikeSNo clicks ever with vorbis (of couse none with FLAC, WAV, WV etc. by definition)
04:07:25preglowencoders assume they know nothing about data around track transitions, that breaks perfect gapless right there
04:07:45preglowto encode lossy tracks nicely around track boundaries, you need to know what follows after the boundary
04:07:48jhMikeSGapless was the whole reason I ever found this rockbox thing in the first place. I hated "The Wall" with huge gaps on x5 and read "rockbox" in the iAudio forums.
04:07:57preglowthat's what the old lame gapless method did right
04:08:03preglowjhMikeS: me too....
04:08:36preglowjhMikeS: i was pissed off iriver didn't do gapless right, found rockbox, waited for it, and planned to code dsp plugins on it when it came around
04:08:48preglowi'm still planning to do that......
04:09:37preglowi listen to a lot of electronic music, and every other album has gapless transitions, it pisses me off when i get bloody gaps
04:09:59jhMikeSI had no idea and didn't even plan on developing right away. Just a spur of the moment thing to see what I could do with the LCD on x5 (and a laughable effort looking back on it)
04:10:43jhMikeSI had absolutely no idea what I was doing and never programmed hardware before.
04:10:44preglowwhat programming experience do you have, anyway? as of right now, you seem 10x more skilled than me
04:10:55 Join TMM [0] (
04:10:58preglowreally, now...
04:11:07jhMikeSI just did some personal apps for windows to help myself
04:11:19preglowyou pretty much count as a natural, then :P
04:11:34jhMikeSrockbox was totally incomprehensible to me at first
04:12:37 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
04:12:40preglowi don't really remember what is was to me
04:12:41jhMikeSI still use the apps too :). Now I hate programming PC software.
04:12:52preglowi always tend to focus on really small areas of anything
04:13:06preglowlarge parts of rockbox probably are incomprehensible to me today
04:13:30preglowif it involves making a gui, i don't like it ...
04:13:46jhMikeSMe too. I just haven't gotten into them all...impossible anyway. I'd rather focus and do a thorough job.
04:14:34preglowbut, no, i usually don't think too much about it, if it works, i'm sucked into it automatically
04:14:40jhMikeSI'll do gui if I feel free to get creative.
04:14:43lostlogicjhMikeS: your patience and thoroughness are rather impressive
04:14:54preglowthree cheers to that
04:15:24lostlogicI'm kinda fast and loose with my code, I read something until I can feel what it does and then modify it until it does what I think it should, much more art than science most of the time.
04:15:32preglowi'd have given by a tenth on the way to the dual core stuff
04:15:43preglowif not earlier
04:15:44jhMikeSlostlogic: thanks. some things require absolute detail orientation or don't mess with it.
04:15:57lostlogicjhMikeS: yep, and I leave those to you and Jens
04:16:37jhMikeSI do find threading rather fascinating and just _had_ to have DC work because...well, it's just cool to have. :)
04:16:44preglowi can plan high-level stuff fine, but not code it
04:16:54preglowso i'll just stick to coding low-level stuff
04:17:23lostlogicI'm afraid they wouldn't pay me if I couldn't write webapps and web services.
04:17:26jhMikeSthe kernel is highlevel? it's huge and detailed...a big pita but a fun one.
04:17:43preglowjhMikeS: i wouldn't say it's high-level, no...
04:19:21jhMikeSoy, web programming is just ... well, I just dislike scripting languages or HTML or Java or anything that keeps me away too far away from the architecture.
04:19:41preglowi can enjoy that just fine too
04:19:49lostlogicjhMikeS: yeah, I'm not a huge fan myself, but java programming seems to pay the bills rather well, so I've learned to do decently with it
04:20:01preglowas long as i'm really interested in whatever i'm trying to do, i'm fine
04:20:08preglowbut i guess that goes without saying
04:20:09jhMikeSI like C++ alot though
04:20:19preglowc++ is ok
04:20:28preglowthe language i like the most is perl :>
04:20:32preglowperl and assembler
04:21:03jhMikeSI know why now I don't see much video software in C but C++ instead
04:21:04preglowon the oppositive parts of the expresiveness scale
04:21:14preglowand excuse my spelling, i'm nearing toasted right now
04:21:17lostlogicperl is a lot of fun, I wish I had more opportunity to play with it
04:21:45jhMikeSI haven't messed with that too much except to get some rb scripts to do what I needed atm
04:21:59preglowperl is fun, that's what i love about it
04:22:20preglowyou can code it profesionally for year, and it'll still surprise you
04:22:32lostlogicyeah :)
04:22:36preglowwhich is what makes it fun
04:22:59preglowbut that fun still doesn't keep you from being productive, whatever the python people might make you believe :P
04:24:15jhMikeSlostlogic: re: the "more art than science". I'll always be sure to the best of my ability the logic only allows the conditions I want the system to have.
04:25:44jhMikeSpreglow: what do you use perl for in general? for web stuff I can pass. It must be good for something else I might like.
04:26:01 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:26:05 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
04:26:21preglowjhMikeS: right now, i'd use perl for web stuff any day, but i used to use it for network services in general
04:26:28preglownow, i just use it for any scripting task i have
04:26:57jhMikeSnow, network stuff (not webpages) _is_ interesting and something I haven't touched on nearly enough
04:27:58preglowi learned perl doing services for some people i knew in uni doing counter-strike service
04:28:00jhMikeSbut it's more like routing, packets and synchronization that I like...I guess sort of threading in a distributed way *shrug*
04:28:18preglowmaking fake rcon admin servers, stats stuff
04:29:00preglowi just kept using it after that for anything net related
04:29:23preglowi've always been in programming for the fun, which is why perl struck so nicely with me, i think
04:29:51preglowpython fucking bored me to death
04:30:02preglowand i only use c/c++ because it's so efficient
04:30:27scorchewhat bored you about python?
04:30:29jhMikeSthe higher-level scripting stuff just feels, well, strange. I guess I initiated myself in the C64 days so maybe that's it.
04:30:51preglowscorche: the whole "this is the only way you'll ever code this" kind of thing
04:31:04preglowscorche: python kind of only has one approved way to do stuff
04:31:24jhMikeSI never had a look at python at I feel like I shouldn't bother
04:31:29preglowscorche: with perl, everyone loves the way you can do stuff a ton of ways. you'll find a ten modules to do the same thing in different ways
04:31:43scorcheah...i can see that...that is partly why i think it is good for beginning programmers teaches very good habits
04:31:46preglowjhMikeS: i got into coding with c64 too
04:32:12 Join webguest71 [0] (i=48927114@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:32:19webguest71howdy guys
04:32:20preglowjhMikeS: not really conciously. my first real coding was qbasic on dos, but i only did that because i recognized basic from c64
04:33:20preglowjhMikeS: i didn't really touch real 6502 assembly until i was in uni 6-7 years ago, a real flashback, that was :P
04:33:41jhMikeSI liked 6502 asm myself over basic
04:33:51preglowtoday, i do as well
04:33:59 Quit webguest71 (Client Quit)
04:34:14preglowback then i had no idea what asm was
04:34:20jhMikeSThe first basic I did was in 5th grade...on Apple II :P
04:34:29preglowmy route was basic->pascal->[asm]->c->c++
04:34:46preglowwith smaller stuff inbetween
04:35:25 Join saratoga\ [0] (i=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:35:26jhMikeSbasic->6502 asm->pascal->c->c++-><various asm>
04:35:35preglowheh, yeah
04:35:46preglow"various asm" fits nicely at the end for me as well
04:35:53preglowbeing rockbox' fault, primarly
04:36:07jhMikeSthere wasn't much else available to start at the time but basic
04:36:26jhMikeSyes, rb is to blame for much of it
04:36:41preglownever would have known m68k and arm if not for rockbox
04:37:15jhMikeSme not likely either....ARM definitely not.
04:37:26preglowi always wanted to learn 68k
04:37:29preglowbut never had an amiga
04:38:03jhMikeSWe're it not for RB, I don't think I'd really know what most stuff is.
04:38:50preglowi got in rockbox for dsp, really
04:38:58preglowand that's what i still do
04:39:02preglowbut asm is a bit part of that
04:39:07jhMikeSI have to have a reason to learn outcome that must be met
04:39:14preglowyeah, same here
04:39:41preglowit's the same with everything i do, if i have a good goal to learn something, i learn it
04:39:45preglowand pretty well too
04:40:26preglowbut it's strictly pragmatic, very rooted in what i'm currently trying to achieve
04:41:44preglowalways had good fun with that in uni, tons of nice stuff to learn i really didn't need to know
04:41:46jhMikeSIt reduces the set of what's to know and channels it...otherwise the universe is too vast and I don't know what to know.
04:42:04preglowheh, yeah
04:44:55preglowon that note, arm really should have dedicated dsp stuff like coldfire does :/
04:45:29preglowi gave optimizing the same speex stuff i have done for cf the last on cf a go on arm today
04:45:35jhMikeSit does...if it's added on :)
04:45:36preglownot as easy :/
04:45:56preglowhaving four accumulators separate from the ordinary register set is nice
04:46:01saratoga\i think arm v5 or 6 has DSP stuff
04:46:08saratoga\i blame PP for what we have
04:46:13preglowsaratoga\: it does, but still using ordinary registers
04:46:34jhMikeShaving accumulators as the regular regs has advantages too...when output must feed input
04:46:44karashatagot a data about when trying to switch tracks after the player stopped playing in the middle of a track
04:46:45preglowthat qmf_synth() thing i did for speex was really an optimal use of coldfire
04:46:48 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
04:46:58karashataand an unidentified instruction as well
04:47:20jhMikeSif ARM didn't have that icky slow booth multiplier or would at least do something for single-cycle throughput, it would work nicely
04:47:21karashataI think I'm switching back to the build I have before the MoB commit, seems a little unstable still
04:47:52preglowjhMikeS: yeah, and portalplayer not replacing that speaks volumes as to how skilled they are
04:48:09preglowjhMikeS: i almost hope they have some hidden cop instruction doing macs fast for them somewhere
04:48:36preglowhowever, i didn't find any doing disassemblies :/
04:49:29preglowreally, smlal and smull would be "ok", at least, if they weren't so bloody slow
04:49:33jhMikeSthe core is the core...they probably had ARM wire it to the C0EDBABEs, DEADBEEEs and CACAD0D0 and called it PortalPlayer
04:49:38saratoga\the faster arm cores are nice, the high end stuff they're doing even has OOOE
04:49:56saratoga\though that largely negates the need to optimize for anything we'd do
04:50:18preglowsaratoga\: yeah, but that's very migh higher end than we'll see in some time, i'll wager :D
04:50:32saratoga\the way toshiba is going i'm not sure
04:50:46jhMikeSpreglow: nope, I disassembled the whole OF and only smull and smlal
04:51:03saratoga\also, what is the latency on a smull for PP anyway?
04:51:06saratoga\5 clocks?
04:51:11preglowjhMikeS: yeah, i even found a complete equivalent of our eq_filter, only slower
04:51:17preglowsaratoga\: depends on the operands
04:51:25preglowsaratoga\: anything from 3 cycles to 6, i think
04:51:41saratoga\6 is for a 32x32 with no add?
04:51:50preglowsaratoga\: for smlal, 2 to 5 for smull
04:51:53jhMikeSuse shift+add whenever you can on ARM
04:52:38saratoga\using the other complex multiply formula for mdcts would probably be worthwhile then
04:52:52jhMikeSadd/sub/rsb rn, rm, rs, lsl #x _is_ the other mla
04:52:56preglowsaratoga\: important thing to know if they use the booth multiplier scheme with early termination, for each byte in your second multiplier operand that a zero, you save a cycle
04:52:57saratoga\i think its two complex muls a sample, and you can save one smull on each
04:53:28preglowok, i can't type straight without considerable attention anymore
04:53:40saratoga\preglow: the manual says that, but I couldn't detect a difference if I ANDed with FFFF0000 before multiplying
04:53:53saratoga\though maybe i was doing something wrong
04:53:53preglowsaratoga\: then that's seriously weird
04:53:56jhMikeSpreglow: It varies alot, one other ARM implementation isn't just bytewise but bitwise and all negative values take full time
04:54:56saratoga\for a while i was going to have multiple small lookup tables for each trig table that would be 16 bit each, but carefully scaled so that rounding could be controled
04:55:06preglowsaratoga\: anyway, colour me surprised if portalplayer altered that arm core at all before using it
04:55:11saratoga\but it didn't seem like doing the shorter multiply was faster
04:55:19saratoga\though maybe i was doing something wrong
04:55:31jhMikeS16-bit contants might very well have short shift+add sequences
04:55:40preglowjhMikeS: if constant, yes
04:55:49preglowbut you don't often see that
04:56:15saratoga\well the trig tables are constant, but theres too many to do that i think
04:56:27preglowwe would have to hard code every imdct
04:56:33preglowthen we could do shift-adds
04:56:37 Join Guerin [0] (
04:56:43Guerinhey kids
04:56:47preglowperfectly feasible, but i'm too damned lazy
04:56:50preglowGuerin: hi, dad
04:57:05saratoga\i wonder if the exploded code size would make it worthwhile
04:57:07Guerini just installed rockbox on my iaudio x5L, which I rebuilt from cannibalised parts, and it works a treat
04:57:21preglowsaratoga\: with cache, it's always hard to say
04:57:24Guerinso whoever's involved in making it does an awesome job; cheers
04:57:31preglowGuerin: good for you
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04:57:33 Join saratoga [0] (i=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:57:36preglowobviously, also for us
04:57:40preglowhooray! \o/
04:57:44jhMikeSus kids like treats
04:58:15preglowGuerin: why cannibalize?
04:58:47saratogaoh yeah, i found a paper arguing that our MDCT implementation has suboptimal rounding accumulation and performance when used for fixed point, so maybe the tremor one really is faster
04:58:49Guerinpreglow: i plugged my old one into a AC->USB power supply which burnt out the IDE controller
04:59:00preglowGuerin: and it still works? :P
04:59:03jhMikeSit's like the toffe82 gigabeats...take a bunch of busted ones and make one good one/
04:59:25Guerinbought a standard x5 on the interwebs, for cheap because it had a dead battery, and spliced the two together with my trust soldering iron
04:59:35preglowright, i thought you rebuilt the rockbox, not the iaudio
04:59:44Guerinheh, nope
04:59:46jhMikeSGuerin: do you happen to have a good x5 battery on hand?
04:59:48Guerinrockbox Just Worked
04:59:50preglowlike i said, typing correctly takes considerable attentionm
04:59:52preglowdon't expect much
05:00:34GuerinjhMikeS: i still had the battery out of the x5l, which is ~3x the capacity of the standard one. so I just put the drive and battery into the new unit and it's all good
05:01:04jhMikeSyou did say the standard one had a dead batt which is sad...but I was hoping...
05:01:20Guerinyou're in need of an iaudio x5 battery?
05:04:05jhMikeSGuerin: yes...a compatible one with the correct charge voltage on 4.2V
05:04:05Guerini have such a battery - but you can get an OEM one quite easily
05:04:05jhMikeSI will not send it back to Cowon. They killed it in the first place when they fixed the joystick, then killed the USB, then killed the batt
05:04:05Guerinthe busted x5 i bought second hand came with an OEM 1100mAh battery which I don't need
05:04:05Guerini wouldn't ever bother sending one of these back for service
05:04:05DBUGEnqueued KICK jhMikeS
05:04:05jhMikeSit was warranty so no charge to me
05:04:16jhMikeSthe 1000mAh batt will fit a standard x5?
05:04:28GuerinjhMikeS: the guy i bought the part off got his OEM battery on ebay for $12.99 - you can change them quite trivially with a soldering iron
05:04:49Guerinyes, it's a replacement part
05:04:57Guerinidentical in all respects
05:05:06jhMikeSI know that...that's easy. If the charge voltage isn't right you'll overcharge and destroy it anyway.
05:05:52jhMikeSso it's actually a new battery that fits?...woohoo? I'm in the US. is that a problem?
05:05:59Guerinpart # PPCW0504; the same as the one I removed. not 4.2v, though - the part I took out is 3.7v
05:06:43Guerinthe guy i bought this one off got it from a canadian seller
05:06:46Guerinso no problem there
05:06:51jhMikeSthat's nominal voltage
05:07:07Guerinnot peak, right.
05:07:20jhMikeS4.2V full-charge is what's important since that's what the software expects
05:07:55Guerinmine weighs in at a shade under 4v at full charge
05:08:09Guerinand that's the x5l battery which is a standard one and a much larger one connected in series
05:08:12jhMikeSwell, perhaps it adapts then
05:08:24Guerinthe adapter i burnt it out on was 6vdc
05:08:49Guerinwhich it says is what it takes - but i was foolish to use it with a non-standard charger anyway
05:08:57 Quit saratoga (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
05:09:31 Quit midgey ()
05:09:38jhMikeSac = bad for charging circuits
05:10:48Guerinanyway, the part is made by Cameron Sino - CS-SFm3SL is their catalogue number for the battery, in addition to the part # above
05:12:54 Join Wofl [0] (
05:13:00Woflhey guys
05:13:12Woflanyone know of a script i can use on my linux box
05:13:24Woflto create the database there, instead of the slow ipod
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05:17:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:27:34Guerinso yeah; cheers to your rockbox devs - you're doing good things for the world ;)
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05:43:52jhMikeShrm...guess I should be able to use the x5 again...hopefully
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05:45:54mrkikoHi all!
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06:12:25 Quit tedrock (
06:12:49lostlogicfound a minor bug, but I doubt it's the source of our troubles. mutex_init() called multix on the same mutex
06:14:44jhMikeSI was just looking at that. I think certain things should have a one-time system startup init.
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06:15:20 Join midkay_ [0] (
06:17:36lostlogicdone and done ;)
06:17:41jhMikeSthread/queue/mutex should be done there. sync objects should exist before the thread too.
06:17:56lostlogichmm, hmm, didn't do that
06:18:49jhMikeSthat's very important
06:20:31lostlogicstill haven't figured out how an invalid pointer makes its way into the linked list though :(
06:22:19lostlogicoh shoot, I think that what I just committed data aborts instantly
06:22:32lostlogicdidn't notice because I'd gotten so used to aborts.
06:23:33jhMikeSyou can do CREATE_THREAD_SUSPENDED and use thread_thaw which will allow it to start running when it's ok for it to do so.
06:23:49 Quit mrkiko ("HI ALL!")
06:23:54jhMikeSmake that CREATE_THREAD_FROZEN
06:25:02 Join TiMiD[FD] [0] (
06:25:42lostlogicjhMikeS: is thread_thaw ok to call on a thread that isn't frozen?
06:25:53jhMikeSlostlogic: it will have no effect on it
06:26:14TiMiD[FD]is someone getting problems with the new buffering engine ?
06:27:10jhMikeSI don't have a thread_freeze in there yet but that's rather dangerous (and harder on DC because of the possiblity of a core switch).
06:27:15TiMiD[FD]sometimes the displayed trackname looks like a memory dump
06:27:32jhMikeSTiMiD[FD]: yes, there are troubles
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06:31:17lostlogicjhMikeS: not much of a usecase for thread_freeze I wouldn't think...
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06:32:56jhMikeSI did have one for using it to stop a thread easily (stealing codec stack safely). But then a protocol could be made for a thread to agree to block and avoid stack use somehow.
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06:35:26jhMikeSA thread can wait on itself to exit, so perhaps that's a nice way
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06:39:08 Join Spiritsoulx [0] (n=eyes_of_@
06:39:23SpiritsoulxAnyone know how I can view Chinese .txt files?
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06:39:55lostlogicjhMikeS: I think that can_add_handle might have been part of our concurrency problem, but I'm still having trouble with it not stopping buffering when the buffer is full.
06:40:30lostlogic(I reworked can_add_handle so that I could move the write part of a can_ function into add_handle0
06:41:51NJoinTMM [0] (
06:41:56SpiritsoulxAnyone know how I can view Chinese .txt files?
06:43:05lostlogicI haven't seen a data abort in ... minutes...
06:43:05NJointedrock [0] (
06:43:44jhMikeSminutes :)
06:43:56lostlogichey, it used to only take me seconds of fiddling with skips to get one :)
06:44:11TiMiD[FD]Spiritsoulx: open them with a text editor ...
06:44:16jhMikeSI could do codec failures reliably with rapid skipping
06:44:23lostlogicseems like rebuffers or resumes don't like to stop buffering, but I think that's actually a separate bug.
06:45:26lostlogichaven't gotten one of those in a while either ;)
06:45:51lostlogicboth of these things were what I _figured_ I'd be fixing by the work I started... 14 hours ago...
06:46:11jhMikeSdoes the buffering thread really need USB awareness?
06:46:28lostlogicall threads must ack USB or it doesn't work
06:46:34lostlogicit's somewhere in the dev docs
06:46:37jhMikeSonly with public queues
06:46:57lostlogicoh... then maybe not...
06:46:58jhMikeSregistered if you prefer
06:47:09TiMiD[FD]after some time of playback, the hdd starts spinning and working and only stops when I stop the audio playback
06:47:10lostlogicthen maybe not.
06:47:13J3TC-Album art, bmp resize and/or custom line patch gets me the *PANIC* stkov audio error
06:47:20lostlogicTiMiD[FD]: yes, I just mentioned that bug...
06:47:27jhMikeSonly playback needs to be stopped. voice and codec shouldn't need them either. I already have a patch for that.
06:47:27lostlogicTiMiD[FD]: it's next on my list unless someone else gets to it first
06:47:49lostlogicjhMikeS: gotcha, would sure look nicer if you applied said patch.
06:48:09 Quit tedrock (
06:48:25lostlogicok, I'm going to commit this ball-o-wax because I can't seem to data abort it any more (thank god) and we'll see what kind of fallout I get.
06:48:26TiMiD[FD]are you theguy who wrote the new buffering code ?
06:49:15lostlogicTiMiD[FD]: no, that was Nico_P
06:49:17jhMikeSbasically it just changed regsiter from true to false and removed the usb awareness. Getting sys messages with a stolen stack is obviously not wanted esp. when done in a non-dev plugin.
06:49:32lostlogicI'm the guy who lurves the playback system and comes to fix weird bugs when other people do massive rewrites :-D
06:50:23TiMiD[FD]I was wondering why when you select a track from filebrowser that is already in buffer, the file is rebuffered again
06:50:25lostlogicjhMikeS: I'm feelin' dumb, but what do you mean by the latter sentence?
06:50:38NJointedrock [0] (
06:50:47lostlogicTiMiD[FD]: because that code path creates a new playlist, which invalidates the whole buffer
06:50:53jhMikeSmpegplayer steals the codec thread stack now to save IRAM. that's fine, but if you plug something *boom*
06:51:04lostlogicjhMikeS: ooohhh, I gotcha.
06:51:15TiMiD[FD]so the playlist creation code empties the buffer
06:51:31lostlogicTiMiD[FD]: yeah, because in _general_ a new playlist means that no songs are going to overlap
06:52:09lostlogicI think we might need a warning posted somewhere about this disk perpetual spinning bug, it's going to cause major battery life trouble for people.
06:52:20lostlogicspecially since I'm probably not going to get it fixed tonight.
06:53:03TiMiD[FD]it awoke me last night ... my player was burning hot
06:53:31TiMiD[FD]fall asleep with it on my stomach)
06:53:48 Join [omni] [0] (n=omni@
06:53:49***Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( )'
06:54:11lostlogicTiMiD[FD]: yeah :( that's the other concern −− temperature.
06:54:25lostlogicI'm looking at it, but my bed time is approaching, so no promises ;)
06:54:43jhMikeSlostlogic: well...I'm too tired to commit anything but here's it before MoB:
06:55:41 Join psycho_maniac [0] (
06:56:43TiMiD[FD]what causes thebug ?
06:57:20TiMiD[FD]the buffering engine that tries to fill the buffer until it's full, but the buffer getting swallowed by the pcm engine ?
06:57:44psycho_maniacis there anybody in here that uses patch 7738? i think it might be just be but i noticed a lot of disk activity now. i am using a current build and i dont see the same disk activity
06:57:56 Join plus_M [0] (
06:58:36plus_MDoes rockbox support the viewing of jpg files?
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07:00:03psycho_maniacyes, as long as there not progressive scan pictures.
07:00:18lostlogicTiMiD[FD]: no, it's not actually buffering, it just somehow forgets to shut down the disk afaics
07:00:53TiMiD[FD]hmm but there seems to be activity on the disk when the bug occurs
07:01:05TiMiD[FD](redlight blinking)
07:01:13lostlogicjhMikeS: nice and simple, definitely worth committing when you are awake ;)
07:01:25 Quit SirFunk_ (Client Quit)
07:01:27plus_MBecause the file browser does not show the jpg files
07:01:34lostlogicTiMiD[FD]: hmm, good to know −− mine just seems to be hanging out there.
07:01:49lostlogicI think there's already a flyspray for this out there...
07:01:50jhMikeSalways good to bugfix by deleting things :)
07:01:50TiMiD[FD]it's not like a real disk activity though
07:01:53lostlogicLlorean: you around?
07:01:56psycho_maniacwhat do you have rockbox set to view?
07:02:10plus_MWell I haven't exactly edited its configuration
07:02:26CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
07:02:26*jhMikeS wonders about supporting progressive JPEG when the opportunity comes up
07:02:39plus_MI get the feeling that you're going to say "can't help you", but I'm using an unsupported build because the official one hanged
07:03:07TiMiD[FD]I'm gonna retest it
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07:03:23 Quit tedrock (
07:03:33TiMiD[FD]fore some reasons it always does it on the bee gees album I have
07:03:54TiMiD[FD]I only have to rewind to the beginning of the playing song and it occurs
07:04:56psycho_maniacyes. only the default build is officially supported. sorry.
07:04:59jhMikeSData abort at 0xDEADBEEE9EE5?
07:07:10TiMiD[FD]lostlogic: so yes the hdd light blinks but the heads doesn't move
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07:09:12*psycho_maniac misses the hd light
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07:09:52***Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( )'
07:10:01lostlogicjhMikeS: something new with my commit???
07:11:22jhMikeSno, just a joke about the bee gees and data aborts :)
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07:14:12 Part plus_M ("Leaving")
07:14:37TiMiD[FD]didn't noticed ^^
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07:18:33karashatahey, the most recent build isn't crashing anymore!
07:19:04karashatathough apparently skipping through 8 or 9 tracks does kill the playback until it's stopped and restarted...
07:19:30karashatashould say, skipping through 8 or 9 tracks in quick succession, while the buffer's still trying to catch up
07:20:10TiMiD[FD]I for one will revert to the friday's svn to listen to my BEE6EE5
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07:21:38karashataI'd have to do more actual testing to make sure everything works, but a quick swap from mp3 to nsfe didn't crash the player, so I'm guessing they're better now
07:21:50karashataswapping back worked too
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07:52:57psycho_maniaci never realized that in order to use the dual processors on the ipods you had to update the bootloader. till i was looking at the "MajorChanges" wiki page and read that. it never said this on the main page i dont think when this was changed.
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07:56:04Mouser_Xpsycho_maniac: I thought it did...
07:56:04scorchedual *cores* ;)
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07:57:26scorcheand which date are you looking at?
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07:59:04psycho_maniac16 Oct 01:25
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08:01:37psycho_maniacthat one is on the svn commits. and then this one ( 2007-03-04: ) is on the MajorChanges wiki page and said to update bootloader.
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08:35:10frogfootyou guys should seriously consider putting up a warning somewhere that the latest build is buggy, and that the Hard drive will heat up extensively
08:36:24frogfootthe excessive heating of the Hard drive is a serious issue
08:37:14frogfootZagor, Bagder ^^
08:37:17 Part frogfoot
08:37:30scorchedid we mistakenly activate the ipod heater?
08:38:11Mouser_XIf so, I'd say it's a good feature, what with winter coming up and all.
08:38:38scorchedepends what hemisphere you are in...
08:38:55Mouser_XYes, I'm aware of that.
08:39:17*scorche was just flexing his pedantic muscle
08:40:20Mouser_XWell, I'm in the hemisphere where it's getting colder. I figured that the guys in the other hemisphere activated the heater out of kindness for us...
08:43:47 Quit TiMiD[FD] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:48:02*karashata hasn't had any hard drive issues with the latest build, yet...
08:49:09*Mouser_X hasn't use the latest build.
08:49:44Mouser_XI'm currently attempting to build it (with patches.)
08:50:06Mouser_X(I actually expect it to fail when it hits the GBS patch...)
08:50:48karashataunless the patches have been brought up-to-date, I wouldn't be surprised if it failed
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08:51:48Mouser_XThe GBS patch succeeded, but it was offset by -55 lines.
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08:54:32karashatagood to hear it worked for ya
08:56:49Mouser_XI didn't mean it compiled. I meant it patched successfully. The build process hasn't gotten that far.
08:57:04Mouser_X(It's very slow on my craptop. 1.5 hours or more.)
08:58:41karashataohhh, nvm then...
08:58:47karashatahope it works for you though
08:59:04amiconnMouser_X: YOu're using cygwin?
08:59:37Mouser_XYes. I've already been told that I should install Linux on my craptop. I probably should, but I don't currently have enough free space.
09:00:18amiconnI guess you have a virus scanner installed. On my laptop it makes a big difference when I disable the virus scanner while building rockbox
09:00:42*karashata wants to put Gentoo on his laptop, but doesn't have the space
09:00:43amiconnSomething like 30 minutes -> 12 minutes for a full swcodec build
09:00:44Mouser_XNo, I uninstalled the virus scanner because it made things *FAR* worse...
09:01:13Mouser_X(I only had it on here for a day or 2. Perhaps a week or 2 ago.)
09:01:45amiconnWow, and then it still needs >1 hour?
09:01:55Mouser_XMy craptop is about 200 mhz.
09:01:56*amiconn wonders about the hw specs of that laptop
09:02:08Mouser_X(It was free.)
09:10:01Mouser_XThe MOD patch compiled successfully (I just saw it copy the mod.codec file).
09:10:11Mouser_XThat patch is from before the MoB commit.
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09:17:09Mouser_XWell I'm surprised.
09:17:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:17:33Mouser_XGBS compiled successfully. That patch is from June or July.
09:17:54karashatathey fixed the MoB stuff (or whatever) to make the patches work again?
09:18:10karashataisn't that nice, heh
09:18:39Mouser_XNo. I'm using the GBS and MOD patches are available on the tracker. Neither of them have been updated since the MoB commit (GBS hasn't been updated since June or July, probably earlier.)
09:18:52Mouser_XOh, I misunderstood what you said.
09:19:01karashatayeah, ya did...
09:19:26karashatabasically, what work they've done to the MoB stuff seems to have allowed the patches to work again
09:19:38karashataas well as fixing the data abort issues I was having
09:19:54Mouser_XMaybe they did fix the MoB stuff. I have 2 svn's for Rockbox. One from shortly after MoB, and one from a few minutes (hours now) ago. The one from shortly after MoB failed when it hit the GBS codec.
09:20:10karashataand I still haven't run into that "hard drive spinning constantly" issue some of the people seem to have
09:20:41karashatathe r15324 commit didn't work when I tested it
09:21:02karashatastill had the same issues as the r15314 I had been using previous to that one
09:21:12karashatar15330 is working beautifully for me
09:22:44karashataabout my only problem now, is I only have space for maybe two or three more songs
09:23:13karashata12.2 MB free
09:23:19karashataout of 18.6 GB
09:23:45Mouser_XThat's a pretty tight fit there...
09:24:05karashatathat's every single piece of music in my library, though
09:24:17Mouser_XImpressive... Most, impressive.
09:24:27Mouser_X(/vader voice)
09:24:35*karashata chuckles
09:25:30karashataany more music and I'll either have to start weeding stuff out that I don't listen to much anymore, start getting picky with what I have on the mp3 player, or look into putting a bigger drive in it
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09:37:05Mouser_XThe light has gone out on my wireless adapter, but I still *seem* to be connected.
09:37:39Mouser_XCrud, wrong channel, sorry.
09:38:25Mouser_X(My touchpad is far too sensitive...)
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10:23:08Mouser_Xamiconn: Rockbox finished compiling. I'm making the ZIP now. While you might not care, I just thought I'd point it out, as an illustration of how long it takes RB to build on my craptop.
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10:54:00nanokhey there
10:54:11nanoki'm finally back
10:54:15*nanok rockboxed
10:54:31nanoki jost dropped by to say "wow!"
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11:12:50nnkseem to have a strange problem
11:13:20nnksometimes, when i try to play an ogg, the player refuses to play
11:13:40nnkafter that, it refuses to play anything, even other formats
11:13:51AlexCsounds like a bug
11:13:59nnka reboot seems to solve the problem
11:14:02AlexCnot that i know anything at all about anything
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11:14:21nnkbut interestingly enough, the reboot is allways very sllow (the shutdown, more precisely)
11:15:05nnkas opposed to the usual 2-4 seconds to shutdown, it takes around 30s i think (never counted though, but it's long)
11:15:44nnksomething might be wrong with the ogg's, but still..
11:16:02nnkdoesn;t sound like.. uhm.. normal behaviour
11:17:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:22:04AlexCno it doesn't
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11:22:04AlexCdo the oggs play on computer?
11:22:06nnkAlexC: yes
11:22:14nnkthey do, never had a prolem with them
11:22:19AlexCare they complete?
11:22:26nnkthey play fine on the player also, after a reboot :)
11:22:29AlexCare they smooth?
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11:22:39nnkyes, they are anithing but perfect :)
11:23:12AlexCare you on the latest version of rockbox?
11:23:23nnkyup, the daily build of yesterday
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11:23:49nnki should think (i just got my player yesterday, first thing was to rockbox it ;) )
11:24:09nnkthe player is a sansa e200 (vanilla not r)
11:24:22AlexCi'm not an admin or programmer or anything so i don't think i can help you
11:24:40AlexChave you searched docs?
11:24:48Mouser_Xnnk: Try a new build (not the daily build, something newer).
11:24:50nnkAlexC: no worries, it's good to answer some questions about it, at least one feels listned to
11:25:18nnkMouser_X: newer than the yesterday one?
11:25:32Mouser_XThere was a recent commit that might have fixed your problem. I doubt it's in the daily builds yet.
11:25:36nnkMouser_X: i'm afraid you lost me here. is that possible? or you mean a custom build
11:25:40Mouser_XYou'd need a current build.
11:26:01nnksorry, that must be my lack of knowledge of the project
11:26:06nnki think i meant current
11:26:17Mouser_XDaily builds are a "snapshot" of the current build. The current builds are as new as you can possibly get.
11:26:19nnklet me check where i downloaded from, but i think current is the right word
11:27:08Mouser_XWell, get a newer one. The commit that I'm refering to happened about 4-8 hours ago (due to time differences, I'm not quite sure).
11:28:02nnkthe link was
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11:28:29nnkMouser_X: than it doesn;t matter which i have, it is not that one for sure
11:28:37nnkMouser_X: thanks a lot
11:28:41nnki will try
11:28:54nnki also discovered another possible bug
11:29:22linuxstbSoap: Are you around?
11:29:40nnkdue to the fact i don't know how to plugin the player in the usb _and_ listen to music, i kind of...tryed trial and error
11:29:58nnkat some point i tyed by holding down the context menu and plugging in
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11:30:17nnkit bricked it :). had to take out the screwdrivers, take the battery out, to reboot
11:31:04nnki finally discovered it was the select button (the one in the middle of the wheel, on the sansa e200)
11:31:33nnkbtw, i couldn't find that in docs, maybe i didn;t look hard enough
11:31:43nnk(i usually use grep to look really hard :) )
11:31:50Mouser_XThere is a manual. That sort of stuff should be in there.
11:32:01linuxstbHolding the power button for about 15 seconds is a hardware power-off, that should have worked.
11:32:08nnkMouser_X: i did look, ofcourse
11:32:09*Mouser_X actually reads that stuff.
11:32:19nnklinuxstb: noope
11:32:22Mouser_XI don't have grep.
11:32:53nnkMouser_X: linux freaks do. don't worry about it ;), unix talk
11:33:35linuxstbnnk: Sorry, it's MENU, not power...
11:33:37nnkmaybe i should try to download the full manual instead of browsing online (hm, why didn;t i think of that before? )
11:33:51nnklinuxstb: it's the same on the sansa, i think, right?
11:33:57Mouser_XI don't what grep is. I also know I don't have it.
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11:34:23Mouser_X*I know what grep is.
11:34:37Mouser_X(Wow, crappy typo.)
11:34:40linuxstbnnk: I'm talking about the Sansa - holding MENU for about 15 seconds should always power-off according to what I've read (I don't own one).
11:34:41nnkMouser_X: you would love it :). us unix admins couldn't live without it
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11:35:04nnklinuxstb: well, in that case it didn't, i did try
11:35:16nnkMouser_X: ahm, okay :)
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11:35:46nnkMouser_X: than how can you live without it? :-P
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11:37:45Mouser_XI know *what* it is. I've never used, or seen, it.
11:38:27nnkMouser_X: it's okay, it was a joke (with a taste of flame in it ;) )
11:38:53scorcheit is the power button
11:39:12nnkMouser_X: anyway, thanks for the tip. i will try the latest current, and see if it still breaks
11:39:30nnkand report back here
11:40:05scorchethe power button says menu, but we call it "power" ;)
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11:40:25scorche(to avoid confusion with the submenu button)
11:40:50nnkanyway, other than that it is bloody amazing. i barely saw the original firmware, and couldn't care less. and it does sound great (i was afraid the sansa won't be that great..)
11:41:32nnkscorche: agreed, it has the power icon on it, the menu underneath. it is power :)
11:41:41Mouser_XIMHO, the Gigabeat and the Sansa players are among the best targets.
11:43:55nnkMouser_X: the sansa also have another advantage: they are comparatively cheap, and easy to get (not rare)
11:44:10nnkthe only thing that bugs me is the rechargeable battery
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11:44:53nnkallways hated that. but having rockbox on it was too cool to pass (i'm fed up with transcoding to mp3, finding small bugs i know will never be addressed, and so on)
11:46:48Mouser_XThe Gigabeat isn't *that* rare, nor *that* expensive. The Sansa is cheaper, but the Gigabeat has more storage, and faster CPU.
11:47:45nnkMouser_X: interesting, i don;t even know the gigabeat, found out about them first on the rockbox site
11:49:06nnkwhich should be a note to producers. also, i must say i only ever bought the sansa because it is rockbox-certified ;), i would have never even considered it otherwise, regardless the features
11:49:20Mouser_XVery true.
11:51:57nnkthey should concentrate on making ecelent hardware, for a better price, and support the people who actually know how to do it, for the firmware. i almost can;t believe it, but the rockbox team really did something amazing: it made the best firmware i have ever seen or heard about on closed platforms (except the first, the archos, if i understand correctly, kudos to them)
11:52:51nnki still have a hard time processing this simple truth, allthough i have been running opensource software for quite a few years now (exclusively ;) )
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11:53:17nnkwhich reminds me: i am finally trully free, even my player is opensource :)
11:54:03AlexCyour bootloader isn't
11:54:17AlexCor is it?
11:54:44AlexCwhat about the bios on your computer?
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11:55:25nnkAlexC: yes, yes. i was thinking about that
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11:55:33nnkwhy do you have to say it out loud..
11:56:34nnkmy computer is a thinkpad, i couldn't really envisage open bios for it. not in the imediate future at least (i do know there is an open-bios project for x86, but thinkpads are.. too different)
11:57:38nnkAlexC: my bootloader on the sansa is the rockbox one, if i understand correctly (it is fortunately not a rhapsody-crap one, so i guess the bootloader was replaced completely, am i right?)
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11:59:32*AlexC shrugs
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12:21:58nnkcurrent build installed
12:22:09nnkseems to work fine. we'll see if it still locks
12:23:17nnkbtw, another question (probably sansa e200 port specific): it seems to not charge above 75 percent
12:23:39nnkit was plugged in all night..
12:23:53nnkis that ..uhm.. normal?
12:23:57nnklike, a feature? :)
12:27:16puzzlesi just asked in #ipod-linux, but maybe someone in here can help. anyone know where i can read up on the state of 6g ipods? is there some hacking going on? does it look completely unfeasible?
12:27:21nnkalso: is the estimated time remaining allready "reliable" on the sansa? or should i not take note of it (tipically, i get anestimation of about 5hours, which maybe isn't so surprising, considering the battery is actually at 75percent)
12:27:46bluebrotherpuzzles: for Rockbox development on the 6G check the New Ports forums. And nobody is working on it.
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12:27:50nnkpuzzles: afaik, ipod-linux and rockboxare separate projects
12:28:15puzzlesbluebrother: thanks
12:28:21bluebrothernnk: the runtime estimate is wrong on all newer targets because it hasn't been calibrated.
12:28:34nnkpuzzles: so whatever the status in rockbox, the status in ipod-linux might be different
12:28:57nnkbluebrother: okay, i thought something like that might be the case
12:29:08puzzlesnnk: rockbox based its code off of the ipod-linux team's hacking efforts and code
12:29:13nnkbluebrother: what does it take to be calibrated? can the users help?
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12:29:39bluebrothernnk: no idea. But I don't think it would make sense to do that before the power consumption issues are fixed.
12:29:53nnkpuzzles: probably, i do not know much about it. it was just a point to take into consideration (i do know they colaborate sometimes)
12:30:12nnkbluebrother: good point, i was meaning to ask
12:30:29nnkis there an open discussion about that? what is the progress?
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12:31:21bluebrotherI don't think there is any progress. The major issue with the hardware specs being unknown remains
12:31:26bluebrother(and makes it quite hard)
12:31:40linuxstbnnk: No Rockbox developers own a 6G, and as far as I know, no-one outside the Rockbox project has made it known to us that they are working on a port.
12:31:46nnki assume if rockbox hasn;t bettered the original firmware by now, there must be something very wrong/ something "in the way"
12:32:08*amiconn wonders whether he should commit his broadcom driver improvements
12:32:17amiconnI mean in their current state
12:32:39nnkbluebrother: :(
12:32:40bluebrotherwhat does it do?
12:32:52amiconnNo major breakthrough in fps as measured by test_fps, but the transfer in lcd_update_rect got considerably faster
12:33:14nnkbluebrother: sandisk should give something back and at least give the specs and maybe a helping hand with some code
12:33:19amiconnThe problem is that test_fps sends back_to_back, and the broadcom then always needs its 14ms for internal operation
12:33:31linuxstbamiconn: Then it sounds good. Less time spent in lcd_update_rect must be a good thing.
12:33:34nnkrockbox is allready selling theyr players, so i don;t think it's such a big deal to ask
12:33:42bluebrothernnk: I guess they simply aren't allowed to do. But they didn't help the project too much anyway
12:34:06nnkbluebrother: yes, i know. there was an..attempt at helping
12:34:08nnkso to speak
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12:34:21amiconnI did tests without the "finishup" wait, and then got 100fps fullscreen when boosted (but of course some updates weren't performed in the broadcom
12:34:27linuxstbnnk: IIUC, someone in their marketing department sent us some free hardware, but all attempts at getting technical help have been refused.
12:34:41bluebrothernnk: ask this sandisk, maybe it helps ;-) Unfortunately we can't do much about it here.
12:34:57nnkmaybe they are bound by some contracts with the providers of the pieces of hardware they are using..
12:34:58*amiconn should measure the transfer speed without finishup and the old code
12:35:24amiconnOh, and I cut out quite some cruft from lcd-ipod.c
12:35:28amiconnSaves almost 400 bytes
12:35:44puzzlesthat was fruitless
12:35:48amiconnAnd I introduced register names
12:35:51nnkbluebrother: i would. but i would like to not do it n vain. i am allready thinking about the idea
12:36:02*bluebrother considered buying a sansa yesterday
12:36:03amiconn..instead of the annoying outw() / inw()
12:36:22nnkas i said: i only bought the sansa because of rockbox, no other reason, none. and i bet i am not the only one
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12:37:22puzzlesthat's why i want to buy an ipod
12:37:32puzzlesi can't stand apple otherwise :)
12:38:02puzzlesand if there was any effort in porting the 6g, i would probably join in, but i'm not seeing much
12:38:22*amiconn would really like that 160GB of disk space
12:38:26nnkpuzzles: why not the 6G e200? i would say it is a valid option
12:38:31puzzlesamiconn: bingo. ;)
12:39:22puzzlesnnk: see amiconn's remark
12:39:49nnkpuzzles: i'm afraid i don't get it
12:40:04puzzlesi need to have all my music on the player or it's not worth it
12:40:10nnkpuzzles: hmm.. 6g doesn;t stand for 6GB?
12:40:18amiconnImho the e200 is too bulky for a flash target. If I'd want to buy a flash target supported by rockbox today, I'd choose the c200
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12:41:00puzzlesnnk: what does it stand for then? the largest size e200 i see is 8GB
12:41:30nnkamiconn: that is a good point. but the batterry is even smaller, and it is reported to sound worse than the e200 (allthough it might only be the firmware, rockbox might sound almost the same)
12:41:36karashatannk: 6th generation iPod, otherwise known as the iPod Classic
12:41:46nnkkarashata: i got it now ;)
12:41:54puzzlesoh, haha
12:42:13nnkpuzzles: i missread your question
12:42:18pixelmabluebrother: re. rbutil and c200 - I tried the latest one available (v. 1.0.2) on XP and it didn't auto-detect my c250
12:42:28puzzlesnnk: and i misunderstood your misunderstanding :)
12:42:28nnkpuzzles: maybe you could consider an hdd-based cowon or iriver
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12:42:55nnki hear they are excelent, and some of them are rockbox-certified :) (i get a kick out of saying this :-D )
12:43:07puzzlesi'm unimpressed with iriver, especially the storage space
12:43:09amiconnlinuxstb: The transfer speed increase is just ~5% ... :|
12:43:18puzzlesi don't mind a 5.5g ipod
12:43:37*amiconn likes his iriver H180 most :)
12:43:39puzzlesbut i would just like to know about the 6g status
12:44:16puzzlesand this is what i've found so far: :P
12:44:43linuxstbpuzzles: That's the status, at least as far as Rockbox is concerned...
12:44:46nnkpuzzles: the iriver is quite impressive, imho, especially in their attitude to their users (i don;t know about their attitude to rockbox though), and the fact that they allways provide very good sound quality and features
12:45:06puzzleslinuxstb: what is? that post isn't even english
12:46:15puzzlesnnk: yeah, that is nice, but the devices themselves look clunky and seem to only offer up to 40GB
12:46:31nnkpuzzles: that, i don't know
12:47:03karashatapuzzles: to put it simple, there isn't a port being looked into currently for the 6g iPod, because the hardware is different from the older iPods, and the firmware is more than likely encrypted as well
12:47:06bluebrotherpixelma: :( I guess sansapatcher recognizes it just fine?
12:47:11nnkalso look at cowon, they are just as good as iriver lately, as far as i could tell (great sound out of the box, great support, good build allround)
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12:47:39amiconnlinuxstb: In fact the speedup is higher when not boosted. +4.8% @80MHz, +5.8% @30MHz
12:47:50puzzleskarashata: ok, but i'm not really looking for a port so much as a hacking effort
12:48:27karashataah, well, as far as Rockbox is concerned, there isn't one yet
12:48:58pixelmabluebrother: yes, I could use sansapatcher without a problem.
12:49:48linuxstbamiconn: Every little helps...
12:50:24nnkamiconn: are you talking about eth or wifi?
12:51:23nnkamiconn: to be honest, either way i came to hate broadcom. and not because of throughput, but because they never seem to work right
12:51:34amiconnnnk: iPod Video.
12:51:36nnkamiconn: but maybe you are not even talking about pc hardware?
12:51:41nnkamiconn: ok :)
12:51:57nnkamiconn: i am young at this
12:52:15nnkplayer with wifi. damn. i only had sigmatel-base dplayers so far
12:52:26bluebrotherpixelma: sorry, got to leave for weekend.
12:52:28amiconnFrom what I understand so far, our write function transfers the pixel data into an internal buffer of the BCM (it has 1.25MB IRAM according to the product brief). Setting the control reg to 0x31 then triggers some internal update of the bcm, which always takes 14ms (in the mode we have it running, whatever that is)
12:52:51bluebrotherI'll see if I get an idea about this sansapatcher thing
12:52:54pixelmabluebrother: don't know if it means something but rbutil finds the correct drive but doesn't recognise it as c200
12:52:54nnki was quite happy with them also. they only have one problem: no rockbox (or opensource firmware, in general)
12:53:12amiconnI am not sure yet why the bcm has 2 alternate sets of registers
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12:53:53amiconnI can use the alternate set just fine, but when mixing them (e.g. set it up via alternate and then send data via primary) it locks up
12:54:29amiconnI also tried using them in an alternating fashion, but that doesn't speed up things at all
12:54:48amiconnProbably because the internal buffer addresses we're writing to are still the same
12:55:10amiconnThe bcm also has a programmable pll - but that's probably set up by the bcm firmware itself
12:55:55amiconnlinuxstb: How is the firmware partition laid out, and do you know about the internal structure of the bcm firmware blob?
12:56:11pixelmaJdGordon: thanks for the answer (at least one) :)
12:56:42amiconnAnd finally, does the filename VMCS.BIN ring any bell (written as on FAT, i.e. "VMCS BIN")?
12:57:36JdGordonpixelma: the one you were expecting?
12:57:48nnkpixelma: so you patched.installed the bootloader, but are stuck at installing rockbox itself, because the rbutil doesn't recognize the c200?
12:58:20pixelmannk: no, I have it installed. Was just a test report to bluebrother.
12:58:34nnkpixelma: oh, okay
12:59:10nnkpixelma: btw, how does the c200 sound? i was in two minds about getting the c or the e
12:59:45pixelmathere shouldn't be huge differences between the two in sound
12:59:49nnkfinally got the e (mainly because of the cardslot support, and being unsure if e doesn;t really sound a bit better)
13:00:24nnkyeah, maybe the reports i heard were based on some first firmware from sandisk, and the hw itself is just as good
13:01:14nnkanyway, if it sounds anything like the e, with rockbox, it is surely more than suitable ;)
13:01:16amiconnThe c200 also supports microsd
13:01:32pixelmabut not in Rockbox yet...
13:01:36nnkamiconn: ahm, i might have old info than
13:01:54amiconn(not with rockbox yet - but that should not be too difficult to fix)
13:02:05nnkamiconn: yes, i was talking about rockbox. who cares about the original firmware? :)
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13:04:01*nnk dreams of a day when the original firmware is just a demo "this is the player, it actually works. now go ahead and install rockbox"
13:04:08linuxstbamiconn: It's a FAT16 image.
13:04:41stripwaxamiconn - when you set the control reg for the primary set, and then send the next frame via the alternate set (without waiting first), does it lock up? or is that what you meant by doing it in an alternating fashion and it didn't speed anything up
13:04:58stripwaxnnk - heh
13:05:37amiconnstripwax: Without waiting it just does't accecpt the frame, although I didn't try alternating + no wait yet
13:05:40nnkstripwax: well, you can;t blame a man for dreaming
13:06:19stripwaxamiconn - wondering if it's a double-buffer implementation
13:06:40nnkx86 won, de facto, because the specs were open. it's a historical fact. why the hell don;t they just all wake up and smell the roses?
13:07:06stripwaxwhat did it 'win' ?
13:07:33amiconnstripwax: That's what I am thinking, but then there must also be an alternate buffer address... You obviously must not fiddle with the buffer that's currently being processed...
13:07:41pixelmaJdGordon: not completely, but hopefully this will lead to a discussion. I remember one short but very fast discussion here and I thought that the mailing list was the better place (because it isn't so fast and people have more time to think before answering)
13:08:22stripwaxamiconn - not necessarily, maybe writes to the 'same' buffer address get mapped to an alternate buffer inside the bcm depending which set you used
13:09:07amiconnNope. If that were the case, using alternate + waiting would be faster, but it isn't
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13:10:46stripwaxonly if the flag we're waiting on is 'this buffer is write-locked' rather than 'one of the buffers is write-locked', I guess.
13:11:10stripwaxof course, I'm guessing
13:11:20amiconnIt is 'this buffer is write locked', I'm pretty sure
13:11:35amiconnWe need to know the second buffer address
13:11:54amiconnBut it might be that the boot-up bcm firmware doesn't actually have 2 buffers
13:12:01stripwaxah. true.
13:12:16amiconnThat's why I'm interested in the on-disk version
13:12:27*stripwax is up to speed now
13:12:45amiconnUnfortunately all this videocore stuff seems to be secret :(
13:13:31stripwaxWhat is the fps of the flash-based lcd diagnostic mode?
13:13:39stripwaxwondering if that sets up dual buffers or not
13:13:46nnkstripwax: well, you could say it won the "shittiest architecture which is also the most popular worldwide" award :)
13:13:57nnkbut it is, i think, the most widespread
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13:14:26stripwax'most widespread what' though? there's an awful lot of non-x86 embedded controllers out there
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13:14:59nnkstripwax: i am talking about personal computers man, not embedded. in embeded stuff, probably x86 is the black-sheep
13:15:24stripwaxnnk - oh, thought we were talking about mp3 players
13:15:51pixelmannk: that is off-topic here ;)
13:16:11nnkstripwax: neah, i don;t know enough about embeded to dare to say anything about which arch is most widespread, and even so,i am quite sure x86 is on the bottom of the list
13:16:43nnkpixelma: yeah, you could say. i was just making a comparison: history shows open-specs hw is lucrative
13:16:46nnkbut nevermind
13:16:52*amiconn gone
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13:38:42linuxstbnnk: ARM seems to be pretty dominant, at least in DAPs.
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13:41:12nnklinuxstb: yes, i think so also
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13:53:08linuxstbtarsius: Hi, I've just read your forum post about the C100.
13:54:09tarsiushaha, i saw your tcctool update 4mins after you committed it
13:55:20tarsiusso it's nice to speak with you. i hope this port works out.
13:55:54linuxstbtarsius: I've just updated tcctool with the value from your USB log - thanks for that.
13:56:04tarsiusmy pleasure
13:57:53tarsiusi take it the rest of the USB log is unnecessary now?
13:58:38linuxstbI would expect tcctool to work now on the c100, but you could keep it just in case it doesn't.
14:00:03tarsiusso i'm actually interested in eventually seeing if the c100's can be hacked to control electronics.
14:00:42linuxstbWhat do you mean, use the c100 to control external devices?
14:01:19tarsiusI didn't realize how fast it's clocked... there's an ARM7 in the Gameboy Advance running at 16.8MHz
14:03:09linuxstbAre you familiar with ARM assembly?
14:04:11linuxstbThe first thing I would do is to hunt through your original firmware for an LCD driver.
14:06:00tarsiusare there any particular "give aways" to look for? any particular patterns apparent when the processor is dealing with LCD?
14:07:11tarsiusalso, I was thinking the the "production test" code within the firmware will be quite useful...
14:07:45linuxstbI'm hoping to commit my code sometime today for my Logik DAX DAB/MP3 player - this includes an LCD driver, so you could search your original firmware for code which is accessing the same bits in the registers. initiates at power-on when the user holds down two buttons
14:08:02tarsiusoh good
14:08:15PaulJami noticed, that with a recent build the next track info is often not available, and i was wondering if that is going to stay that way or if it is just a temporary issue with the MoB..
14:09:24karashataPaulJam: I'm not noticing it, next track info is showing up fine for me
14:09:31karashatawhat build are you using?
14:09:31tarsiusand there are a bunch of strings associated with the production test that will be dead giveaways for how the c100 deals with each of its "peripherals"
14:09:41tarsiusand there are a bunch of strings associated with the production test that will be dead giveaways for how the c100 deals with each of its "peripherals"
14:09:47linuxstbtarsius: Do you know the resolution of your LCD?
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14:11:42PaulJamkarashata: i use r15331 on a h300. it seems as if the next track info isn't available when the next track isn't already in the buffer.
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14:12:45karashatathe next track info isn't available when the next track isn't buffered, is that what you're saying..?
14:12:48linuxstbtarsius: You may also want to try the ARM disassembler in Rockbox SVN (utils/disassembler/arm/) - it gives similar output to objdump, but with with some useful improvements.
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14:14:04tarsiuslinuxstb: i don't have the resolution but i'm checking.... and thanks for the tip about the disassembler. i don't have a real dev environment set up yet, I just used devkitARM because i've used it before
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14:14:20PaulJamkarashata: yes. i think before MoB the next track info was stored separately, so it showed up even if the track wasn't already buffered.
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14:15:12karashatanot that I'm aware of, the next track needed to at least be partially buffered in order for the track information to be known AFAIK
14:15:50linuxstbtarsius: There is lots of info in the Rockbox wiki about setting up a development environment. But your first problem will be getting tcctool to work... You can probably get it working in Windows if you're willing to investigate libusb
14:16:40karashataPaulJam: I haven't noticed any lack of next track information showing up as long as there are tracks in the buffer after the current one, and it may take a few seconds for the next track info to show up whether or not you're using a MoB build
14:17:19karashataI actually find the next track info shows up faster with the recent builds
14:17:29PaulJamwell, at least with older builds i never noticed missing next track info.
14:17:51tarsiuslinuxstb: in your opinion, wouldn't it be easier to install linux so i'm on the same page as everyone else?
14:18:36linuxstbtarsius: The USB code in tcctool is almost identical to the "e200rpatcher" tool which talks to the e200r in usb-boot mode. There are instructions on getting e200rpatcher working with Windows here -
14:18:45karashataheh, and as I switch to a WPS theme I have that shows the next track info all the time instead of swapping with the current track, I discover I'm on the last track on the playlist...
14:19:07tarsiuslinuxstb: cool, thanks
14:20:12karashataPaulJam: checking from the beginning of a playlist... the next track info shows up right away for me
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14:20:50tarsiuslinuxstb: well this site says the resolution is 128x64, but i'll try to find something more reliable−−pid462698027/information.html
14:20:51linuxstbtarsius: Yes, Linux will probably be easier - compiling Rockbox requires a Unix-like environment (Linux, Mac OS X etc) and on Windows you have the choice of Cygwin, or Linux-in-vmware (or colinux).
14:21:09PaulJamkarashata: well, at the beginning of the playlist it is very likely that the next track is in the buffer
14:21:20linuxstbtarsius: Is it a colour LCD?
14:21:28tarsiuslinuxstb: yes
14:21:39linuxstbOK, my device is also 128x64, but mono.
14:22:18karashataPaulJam: kay... skipping ahead seven or eight tracks (making it need to buffer the new tracks) I still get the tag data, so I'm not sure what you mean by it not showing up...
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14:23:20Nico_Pkarashata, PaulJam: when you skip to the last buffered track, the next track info won't be available until a rebuffer occurs
14:23:29tarsiuslinuxstb: this is the device i'm working with: what is yours?
14:23:32PaulJamkarashata: what about the track that plays right before it needs to rebuffer
14:24:05Nico_Pkarashata: have lostlogic's changes solved the data aborts?
14:24:28karashataNico_P: yes, they aren't an issue anymore
14:25:16tarsiuslinuxstb: so what do you think about the prospects of controlling custom electronics with the c100 via a plugin in rockbox?
14:25:19Nico_Pcool :) I'll close the tracker entry then
14:25:40Nico_Pkarashata: I suppose recent builds are more enjoyable for you now...
14:26:06Nico_Pdo you have any other issues?
14:26:14linuxstbtarsius: It should be possible - does the C150 have any obvious I/O ports you might be able to use?
14:26:25karashatacan't think of anything right now, everything seems smooth enough
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14:27:14tarsiuslinuxstb: it has an entire "ipod-style" (but sansa specific) propriatary i/o port and a line of accessories...
14:27:52linuxstbtarsius: Then it would seem very possible.
14:27:53Nico_PjhMikeS: I don't understand your commit dealing with the queues... what will happen when tue user plugs the USB in?
14:27:58jhMikeSNico_P: I noticed even on gigabeat update timing on plugins like oscilloscope tends to run rough now instead of smoothly. Something not yielding enough?
14:28:32jhMikeSNico_P: threads are not obligated to response to USB. the audio thread stops them. the queues are private and so don't receive system broadcasts.
14:28:34tarsiuslinuxstb: which means to me, if we can get any access to the pins, then it would be simple to sacrifice a cable or accessory just for the connector
14:28:37Nico_PjhMikeS: is this all the time, or only when buffering?
14:28:50jhMikeSNico_P: all the time
14:29:16Nico_Pmaybe the buffering thread doesn't yield enough
14:29:22tarsiuslinuxstb: also, it might be possible to solder wires directly to the PCB if theres issues with the pins available on the connector
14:30:16Nico_PjhMikeS: what does the audio thread do on usb plug?
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14:30:48jhMikeSstops playback, waits for voice to be current then force stops voice
14:31:22jhMikeSI don't think the buffering thread should need a registered queue either. Shouldn't the playback stop stop the buffer thread?
14:31:40Nico_PjhMikeS: oh sorry I thought the deletions were from audio_thread
14:32:02jhMikeS:) that wouldn't go over well
14:32:13Nico_Pthat's why I was worried :)
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14:32:39*jhMikeS verifies commit message
14:33:00tarsiuslinuxstb: so i saw there's a link to a Telechips design doc for the tcc76x (i think) series on the website... was this legally obtained?
14:33:17jhMikeS"Make voice and codec queues private..."
14:33:19Nico_PjhMikeS: I didn't read it carefully enough, it's fine
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14:35:12Nico_PjhMikeS: yeah maybe the audio thread could stop the buffering thread
14:35:59Nico_Pwhere are the codec and voice thread actually stopped?
14:36:01jhMikeSmaybe this stuff was only needed when threading control was less developed? hmmm
14:36:24jhMikeSaudio_stop_playback, voice_stop
14:37:18jhMikeSSYS_USB_CONNECTED does those from the audio thread
14:38:44Nico_Phmm so do the threads get removed, or simply suspended?
14:38:55linuxstbtarsius: I don't know how it was obtained, but someone emailed the link to the rockbox-devel mailing list. Our understanding is that we're not breaking any laws by using the information in it.
14:39:47jhMikeSNico_P: they just go wait on their queues
14:39:49tarsiuslinuxstb: hmmm... that worries me. i don't think i'll read it. have you looked through it?
14:40:45jhMikeSno other threads command them (pcmrec does but that stops on connect too) so they can't be started from outside
14:41:08jhMikeSthey also uses inifinte waits when not running
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14:42:28Nico_PjhMikeS: If the buffering thread was made to behave similarly there could be problems if other threads than the audio thread use it, couldn't there?
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14:42:46jhMikeSlike which?
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14:42:57Nico_PI don't know, a plugin
14:43:09jhMikeSit will use it directly or through playback?
14:43:36Nico_Pdirectly I expect
14:44:43jhMikeSso the buffer functions could be added to the plugin api and used. in that case, it probably should if the audio thread won't be in exclusive control of it.
14:44:49tarsiusUh oh... the sun is rising. I need to get back to my coffin before I crumble into a pile of ashes...
14:44:56tarsiusbye everyone
14:45:25Nico_PjhMikeS: yeah, I don't think the audio thread can be assumed as being the only user
14:45:48linuxstbtarsius: Yes. There is nothing in the document stating that the information is confidential, only that the document itself can not be redistributed without Telechip's permission.
14:46:07linuxstbtarsius: Which country (i.e. timezone) are you in?
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14:46:33jhMikeSmust be near me by a few hrs if the sun is rising
14:46:46tarsiustarsius: GMT-5? I think... i'm in Texas, USA, so it's 7:46AM
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14:47:17nnklinuxstb: i hear his kind os originating in transilvanya, in some obscurea country in the east of europe
14:47:38nnkbut they can now be found almost allover the world, it seems
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14:49:15tarsiuslinuxstb:well i saw the statement on the first page of the TCC doc that said something like "You may not distribute, blah, blah blah, STORE, blah, blah ... this document without the written consent.... blah blah"
14:49:27zardoshi! do annyone know why i cant compile the simulator in the VMware debian thinki ? I can compile a Normal build but not a simulator :/
14:49:43tarsiusI figured they were trying to be all-encompassing...
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14:51:47tarsiuslinuxstb: oh, one more thing! i didn't see the Logik DAX anywhere on the list of devices or newports... are you in the early stages of porting it right now?
14:52:06stripwaxzardos - do you get any kind of error message?
14:52:12linuxstbtarsius: Yes, I'm in the very early stages - no code is commited to SVN yet.
14:52:20stripwaxif so maybe that can help us figure out why you can't compile a sim
14:52:50linuxstbtarsius: Someone else (TMM) is working on a port to another Telechips device (iaudio 7), but he's less advanced than me - he's still at the stage of figuring out the LCD.
14:53:13tarsiusoh okay
14:53:37tarsiusgood luck. i'll be talking with you soon, i'm sure
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14:54:08zardosstripwax ok, but its stranke caus it is an untuthced build :/
14:54:26stripwaxzardos - i can't understand that?
14:55:35stripwaxlinuxstb - flashsplit bootloader-video.bin returns almost immediately but doesn't seem to do anything nor print anything. is that expected?
14:55:45zardos:D Strange caus it is an untouched buid*
14:56:26stripwaxzardos - that doesn't help. what does "can't compile" mean? have you tried and failed? if so, what failed and what was the error?
14:57:01zardosam doing a recompile now, u will get the errors soon
14:57:18linuxstbstripwax: What is the "bootloader-video.bin" file?
14:57:59stripwaxlinuxstb - ah, not the flash bin obviously, my bad. sorry
14:58:10*stripwax tries on the right file this time
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15:00:27linuxstbstripwax: Working?
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15:01:33zardosanny who, i'w, modefyed ereader a bit, added some code and made it a viewer, so if some one is interested an a TTS engin for rockbox that reads the textfles u "open with" give me a pm :)
15:02:00linuxstbereader is a TTS application?
15:02:07stripwaxlinuxstb - perfect - yep, thanks
15:03:21linuxstbzardos: Do you have a link to the original source code?
15:05:51zardossorry, it name is espeak and a versone the only reads test.txt is up on rockbox
15:07:13linuxstbOK, so you've just extended that plugin to be a viewer?
15:08:40zardosfor now, but am working on it right now, to add some neat functions
15:09:12zardosits better id it reads all files and not just text.txt ;)
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15:11:43linuxstbzardos: You're aware of the licensing problem that may well prevent it being used in Rockbox?
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15:20:15zardosyes, thats why i only do it for myself, but if some one here is interested in it i dont see the problem of sharing, but mayby all people here know how to code :D
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15:22:35stripwaxif it's in the tracker is that a licensing problem?
15:22:57markunzardos: I'm interested in it
15:23:20markundo you plan to add 'seeking' support?
15:25:50markunlinuxstb: I'm not starting to wonder how the LGPL API file is supposed to work..
15:26:42stripwaxNico_P - was just trying the sim now that mob is in, and it seems that files are opened multiple times (e.g. i select a track on that album, and the diag shows that the tracks of the album are opened four or five times each). is that expected?
15:26:43markunwouldn't the file become GPL when it's linked to the rest of rockbox?
15:27:04stripwaxand also continually while playing back
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15:27:43Nico_Pstripwax: opening multiple times is expected although it should be reduced... the loop during playback is a bug
15:28:18stripwaxok. on device does that bug keep the disk spinning?
15:28:37Nico_Pno, I'm pretty sure it's specific to the sim
15:29:05Nico_P(because on the sim, ata_disk_is_active is always true)
15:29:28stripwaxbut if the file's buffered it shouldn't need to do anything
15:29:35jhMikeSNico_P: I've had something come up on gigabeat that may be related. The disk would never spin down.
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15:29:59jhMikeSI'll see if I can trigger it the same way.
15:30:28*Nico_P has been reviewing lostlogic's big commit and it looks pretty solid
15:30:42puzzleslooks like i'll buy an ipod video and rockbox it
15:30:57markunpuzzles: why the ipod video?
15:31:26puzzlesbang for buck, too
15:31:37markunhow much?
15:31:42puzzlesquality for quid? :)
15:32:00puzzlesfound a refurb 80GB for $220 USD
15:32:01markunpuzzles: price and space
15:32:12markunsounds good
15:32:35markunas you would pay the same for 2 Gigabeat F40's
15:32:35puzzlesiriver and iaudio run up to 40GB :(
15:32:50jhMikeShmmm...can't trigger it at will but if it happened once it's still a bug. that's a race condition type behavior imo.
15:33:26markunpuzzles: the iaudio X5 had a 60GB version too, right?
15:33:31puzzlesi would prefer an ipod classic 160gb, but my poorness and the fact that it's unsupported by anything (and nobody's working on that) means i think the video is a better choice
15:33:39markun(as do the Gigabeat F and X)
15:33:42puzzlesmarkun: if it did i didn't see it
15:34:30puzzlestoo small for me anyway :)
15:34:57markunpuzzles: if we ever figure out how to reduce the power consumtion, the ipod video becomes a great player
15:35:13puzzlesdan@bean:~$ du -chs /media/music/
15:35:13puzzles81G /media/music/
15:35:21puzzlesyeah that would be nice
15:35:47markunand maybe even figure out video decoding with the Broadcom
15:35:59puzzlesdo you guys pretty much know what's causing the high power consumption?
15:36:11markunmaybe amiconn has some ideas?
15:36:15puzzlesi saw that cpu throttling wasn't quite finished and the codecs aren't optimized
15:36:37markunwell, that's no problem on the other ARM based players
15:37:07stripwaxata power?
15:37:12puzzleshow significant is the power consumption anyway?
15:37:27J3TC-Hopefully the new commits in the svn would help the album art/bmp resize work again
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15:37:51stripwaxanyone working on rewriting the albumart patch for mob? :)
15:39:54J3TC-Lol...well, hopefully it doesn't have to be a patch and be natively supported ;)
15:40:26jhMikeSNico_P: Don't know if anyone said anything, but trying to do rapid skipping while buffering seems to make playback abort.
15:40:56Nico_PjhMikeS: data abort or just stall?
15:41:21Nico_Pstripwax: I'll enventually do it unless somone comes up with a satisfactory patch
15:41:25stripwaxlinuxstb - what's the distinction between diagmode.bin and diagmode.ipod?
15:41:29jhMikeSit just stops
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15:42:15jhMikeSsome magenta on the WPS then it quits. you need to just keep doing forward/backward rapidly (yes fw too)
15:42:19stripwaxis the .bin just the raw and the .ipod has some headers wrapped around?
15:42:28Robin0800jhMikeS seems latest commits stop crash but playback aborts and the ipod goes to the file menue screen
15:42:39jhMikeSthough I'll say playback isn't trashed
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15:43:03Nico_PjhMikeS: what target.
15:44:19Nico_PjhMikeS: what kind of tracks too, mp3?
15:44:19jhMikeSI happen to be using that one alot right now and it's easy to put in skip requests really quickly. I don't think this would be specific to target.
15:44:27jhMikeSanything I tried
15:44:32Nico_Pok I'll try
15:45:21jhMikeSIf WPS gets stuck becuase it has to buffer, keep pounding on skip
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15:47:44markunlinuxstb: should the clix2 also work with tcctool?
15:47:58jhMikeSIt occurs to me you could embed kernel objects in place in the buffer in the handles. Just a weird thought for fine-grain locks.
15:48:03stripwaxlinuxstb - another q (sorry) - do you know the address at which execution starts for these four flash images?
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15:51:43Nico_PjhMikeS: like having a mutex in each handle?
15:52:11jhMikeSYou could. If a handle is ready for release, nothing should be waiting there using it right?
15:53:08Nico_Pin the current situation?
15:53:46jhMikeSyeah, if something can use it after it's been freed, then that's a bug
15:54:19Nico_Pindeed. are mutexes cheap?
15:55:12jhMikeSThey are if not already locked (for cycles). Not large in size. I'm think about a way to keep each handle protected individually instead of locking the entire buffer system at once.
15:56:17Nico_PjhMikeS: but it means we can't buffer a handle which is being read, doesn't it?
15:56:22jhMikeSThe scheduler does that sort of thing already so processors don't interfere unless they must sync on some shared resource
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15:57:04jhMikeSnot sure why that would be a problem if that's a valid state.
15:58:38Nico_PI'm not sure I see how the mutex would be used... lock it when it's read and attempt to lock it to close it?
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15:58:49Nico_Pto close the handle, that is
16:00:50jhMikeSOpen/close should be global lock and access to the handle itself local? Careful design for simultaneous read/write.
16:01:51Nico_PI'm not following you...
16:01:59jhMikeSI'm just thinking theres some semantic difference between accessing the data and accessing the handle itself. I still haven't been into this too deeply because of my attention to other code.
16:02:48Nico_Poh now I see... well I think reading and accessing the handle are quite the same
16:03:17Nico_Pall those things are done by the user thread, whereas writing the handl data is done by the buffering thread
16:03:18jhMikeShmmm...I'm thinking of them are sort of meta-metadata
16:03:32stripwaxIn the ipod video diag mode firmware there's a reference to "HDD on off test", which doesn't appear to be an accessible test on the device. wonder what it does, a distinct object giving acces to buffered data
16:05:20Nico_PjhMikeS: yes, but what kind of access would they regulate, ie when would they be locked and unlocked?
16:05:22jhMikeSbtw, can't the path be the last member so that it's optional?
16:06:06Nico_PjhMikeS: hmm nice idea
16:06:21jhMikeSchar path []; :)
16:07:07Nico_Pthen we'd need pathlen, wouldn't we?
16:07:50jhMikeSsure, but that's nothing. use a union{} with something else that is only for non-paths?
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16:14:44J3TC-If I do svn checkout svn:// -r {2007-10-25} the MOB already implemented then?
16:14:57jhMikeSNico_P: seems to be quite a bit of file-only stuff there. I suppose the type member could tell what sort of data stucture should follow. (just thinking about squeezing every byte with little complication)
16:15:18Nico_PJ3TC-: better do checkout a particular revision... but are you having that much problems?
16:15:36J3TC-Well, I'd like to have album art >_>
16:16:20J3TC-How do you get the particular revision?
16:16:44Nico_PJ3TC-: svn co <url> -r <rev>
16:17:26J3TC-Thanks :3
16:17:28Nico_PjhMikeS: you mean what kind of data struct will be after the memory handle, eg a struct mp3entry
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16:18:27jhMikeSsort of, if it's not a file type, then only the min is allocated (no file data members)
16:19:09Nico_Poh, so within the struct memory_handle?
16:19:33Nico_Phave it laid out differently depending on the type?
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16:20:01jhMikeSstruct memory_handle could contain only things every handle must have. if the type hold file data then it should be a struct memory_handle_file.
16:21:17jhMikeSboth structures could have the same initial members so only a typecast is needed. and of couse for files you can store just enough string space for the actual path (+padding).
16:21:22lostlogicjhMikeS: do you sleep?
16:21:33jhMikeSI I'm up again :)
16:22:41jhMikeSit could be struct memory_file_handle { struct memory_handle hdr; .... other stuff }; no real cost to it all
16:23:49Nico_Phmm yeah quite a good idea... probably easier to manage than just having a pointer to the path too
16:24:02lostlogicNico_P: well it only took me 10 forking hours but I nailed tha main bug to the wall −− any idea about why the disk would refuse to spin down after buffering?
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16:24:26Nico_Plostlogic: I'm looking at that now... or something related (in the sim)
16:24:46Nico_Plostlogic: I read your diff and it looks good
16:25:43jhMikeSNico_P: you mean store MAX_PATH always? Doesn't make sense to me. Actually a size member for the struct would make sense. The path would be NULL-terminated still.
16:26:05lostlogicNico_P: :) the only thing that I was thinking might be the issue for the disk spinning is that the ata_sleep on exit from fill_buffer is conditional so maybe it doesn't always get called when it should.
16:26:29Nico_PjhMikeS: yeah I was thinking that... for a file, would the waste be that big?
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16:27:00Nico_Plostlogic: if it's not called then the disk will still eventually spin down. there must be another problem
16:27:02jhMikeSWe do alot of files that don't use even close to MAX_PATH, no?
16:27:11lostlogicNico_P: gotcha.
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16:27:29Nico_Plostlogic: do you know how to repro the disk spinning forever issue?
16:27:33jhMikeSlostlogic: when it happened on gigabeat, the disk led was also stuck on
16:27:40Nico_PjhMikeS: yeah maybe but maxpath isn't that big
16:27:47lostlogicjhMikeS: oh yeah, same here.
16:28:00lostlogicso it's not just spinning, it thinks it's reading something.
16:28:35Nico_Plostlogic: I think I have it basically reproduced on the sim but it might not be the same issue. here the low buffer callbacks are called on a loop
16:28:45jhMikeSNico_P: code for skipping a variable size should be smaller than one handle.
16:28:56Nico_Pwhich means audio_fill_file_buffer is too, which causes constant disk activity
16:29:30lostlogicNico_P: that's actually what it 'feels' like is happening, so I think you've likely found the proximate cause.
16:29:39Nico_PjhMikeS: ok, I'll do it :) after I fix what i'm on... I'll also investigate per-handle mutexes
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16:30:05Nico_Plostlogic: I have a reliable way of reproducing, so I hope to fix it soon
16:30:33jhMikeSNico_P: the local mutexes seem radical though. that's just me being way-out-there with ideas atm. :)
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16:32:56*jhMikeS wonders about magic type values the denote discarded handles. perhaps the high-3 bytes of the type should me a majic number too
16:33:05jhMikeSmajick :P
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16:35:47jhMikeS0xF0CK0FFF <= invalid handle magic?
16:36:03lostlogicwhat's wrong with DEADBEEF :-P
16:36:23Nico_Pespeclially as K isn't hex :p
16:36:43lostlogicI notice things not :-P
16:36:53lostlogic(and they trust me to coode!)
16:37:31jhMikeSif could K doesn't work, but I'm just awakening
16:37:57puzzles0xF0CC0FF more 0xF0CC0FFF :)
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16:39:47puzzlesah, oops :)
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16:41:41puzzlesok, i ordered an ipod video, maybe i can get hacking on that power consumption problem :)
16:42:28jhMikeS0xDEADDEAC <== Portal Player can generate this (dead duck)
16:42:54puzzleshow about a dead dac?
16:43:27jhMikeShope not!
16:43:39preglowi get 0xdeadbeee all the time
16:44:23jhMikeSI've seen 0xdeaddeac once only...and with current SVN? oh, right nano. :p
16:45:06*preglow vanishes
16:45:07jhMikeSthe threading code uses 0x8a905617
16:50:18jhMikeS0x1215705 <= try that one :)
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16:52:34stripwaxI guess another ipod 5g power issue is that we don't power off the wheel when the hold switch is on (right?)
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16:53:54*jhMikeS though the only real power sucking wheel was the 1g opto-mechanical one
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16:56:21stripwaxah, could be. though I thought I saw a patch/commit for something on 2g/3g a bit ago
16:57:01SoapLlorean: Did you catch this quote from 14 hours ago? "<pongg> ok. i thought that the unofficial builds are used like for "beta testing" and ones theyre ok you get the patches to the official one"
16:57:28LloreanSoap: I *think* I responded that it's actually better to test one patch at a time.
16:57:45LloreanI know I thought it, but I might've been busy and ended up not typing it.
16:57:52SoapIt makes me think that perhaps we should maybe make a more explicit disclaimer for the Unsupported Builds forum, explaining not just the rules, but also the /intent/ of the board?
16:58:37LloreanI suspect that users of the builds aren't likely to read the rules anyway, but I don't see any harm in clarifying things
16:59:03LloreanIf you aren't posting a new build, the posting guidelines there won't matter too much to you.
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17:00:25stripwax#define DEV_OPTO 0x00010000 #define DEV_PIEZO 0x00010000 <−− is that a typo in firmware/export/pp5020.h (they're not both on the same dev enable line are they?)
17:00:48SoapLlorean: Oh - you said exactly that - and I wasn't trying to critique your response to him at all. You nailed it. I was just using that quote as an example of how perhaps people are coming to the forums, reading little of the documentation, and going straight to the "candy" builds (perhaps on the recomendation of others) and failing to understand the process.
17:01:28SoapYou know I'm a strong proponent of _not_ hand-holding. You know I agree with you 100% that the documentation _is_ there, and you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
17:02:51stripwaxguess neither are used so doesn't matter
17:03:01SoapI guess that quote triggered a thought in me that perhaps there is a (sizeable?) percentage of the new-user population who comes in, not through the front door, but through the "Unsupported Builds" forum, and perhaps we should put up a specific "Welcome Sign" @ that side door to address the unique "needs" of that population.
17:05:25Soapfrom the main page of, the description for the Unsupported Builds forum is great. Except, perhaps, the very first line "For 'experimental' builds."
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17:07:14jhMikeSstripwax: perhaps a model-dependent thing?
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17:07:57KleviHi again, just dropping a word to say I haven't forgotten you guys =) I'm just waiting for my new sansa to come in the mail before i go messing with something i can't use currently lol.
17:08:19SoapFor aren't these really individual's "hobby" builds? Has a single patch ever worked its way from scratch, through the tracker, through an unsupported build, and into trunk? Has useful work been done through the forum? Or is it mearly a back corner where people tinker and play while waiting for the hard work to be done elsewhere?
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17:10:08LloreanSoap: A second sticky containing this: ?
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17:12:33SoapLlorean: that "sticky" is very well worded, covers the subject perfectly (esp. line 9), and probably will get ignored. ;) Maybe part of me just wishes there was a big enough clue stick.
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17:13:20krazykitmaybe if the stickies were in giant rainbow text wrapped in <blink> tags
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17:13:37LloreanSoap: There's not much more I can do, sadly. What should I replace the word "experimental" with?
17:14:03Soapfrom the main forums page there is a visible description for each of the sub boards, but when you are on the sub board index page you can't see said descriptive text. Is there a way to change that?
17:14:22LloreanNo built in way that I've seen
17:14:48SoapLlorean: I know. :( Do you think as well that the word "experimental" might have been what lead pongg astray?
17:15:17LloreanIt's possible.
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17:15:37LloreanBut I can't really think of a better way to put it without reiterating "Unsupported"
17:17:05linuxstb_stripwax: I'm around now - do you still have questions?
17:17:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:18:22stripwaxlinuxstb - I do .. do you happen to know where execution starts in these images extracted from the flash?
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17:18:50SoapThey are amateur builds, play builds, hobby builds, fun builds, splinter, distraction, impatient, learning (for the patch workers), candy builds. I don't think they are 'experimental' builds for anyone expect, perhaps, the actual builder. Maybe it is just the culture, not the environment, brain isn't working as well as I wish.
17:19:50linuxstb_stripwax: IIRC, they're copied to SDRAM, which is initially mapped to 0x10000000
17:20:15SoapTo me - and maybe I'm crazy - (ok, scratch the 'maybe') "experimental" implies (to me at least) some sort of controled testing and developement, much as pongg appears to have assumed.
17:20:57Soapmaybe Soap is making a mountain out of a molehill, Llorean. :(
17:21:29stripwaxlinuxstb - hm, the start of the image doesn't look like executable code.. Is there a wiki page for the retailos boot process?
17:21:32LloreanI think you're right, people can draw implications from "experimental"
17:21:35Nico_Plostlogic: I think I've found an elegant solution
17:22:24LloreanSoap: Change "for experimental" to "for modified and officially unsupportable"?
17:23:08Soapthat is a fish-slap across the face of a line. ;)
17:23:10linuxstb_stripwax: Which file are you looking at?
17:23:15jhMikeSNico_P: you found the disk spin/forever metadata cause?
17:23:25stripwaxlinuxstb - diagmode.bin
17:23:27Soapand makes the primary issue with them #1, IMHO.
17:24:00Nico_PjhMikeS: yes... it was a loop caused by the fact the low buffer callback is registrered in the function that gets called by it
17:24:17linuxstb_stripwax: It looks fine to me - are you seeing something like this?
17:24:33Nico_Pand another probably related problem of flooding the audio queue with fill buffer messages
17:24:40Nico_Pin a loop too
17:25:12lostlogicNico_P: cool
17:25:17lostlogic(that you've found it)
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17:25:55linuxstb_markun: Yes, if someone can determine the appropriate message (like someone did for the C100 - see that New Port thread), then tcctool should work on any TCC77x or TCC7801 device.
17:26:10lostlogicNico_P: I think the old system had some methods of throttling messages getting dumped on the queue so that a message to fill the buffer wouldn't interrupt an ongoing buffer fill, does the new one?
17:26:19Nico_Plostlogic: now I regitser the low buffer callback in audio_check_new_track
17:26:23linuxstb_markun: (assuming there is a way to enter usb boot mode - most devices seem to have a keypress mapped to that)
17:26:30stripwaxlinuxstb - ah, I am now. I guess I'd overwritten disasm.txt with the code from logo.bin earlier. sorry (again)
17:26:56Nico_Plostlogic: no, and that's a problem
17:27:23LloreanSoap: Too much then, or just right? I can leave out the "officially unsupportable" bit
17:27:32lostlogicgotcha −− well I'm not sure how much I'll be around today but I'll look at it eventually if you haven't
17:27:56linuxstb_stripwax: np. The first 8 instructions are the exception vectors. The first is the rest vector, and hence the entry point into the firmware. It's likely that the code remaps RAM from 0x10000000 to 0x0 at some point early in the initialisation.
17:28:04Nico_Plostlogic: I don't rememver seeing anything like that though... are you sure it was still there?
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17:28:19stripwaxlinuxstb - that would make sense
17:28:36lostlogicNico_P: not positive, I also can't remember if it was on the enqueue or the dequeue side of the queue that it was prevented
17:30:23*jhMikeS likes elaborate while() loops like that :)
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17:31:33SoapLlorean: on your last question perhaps some more feedback from others? I'm not trying to speak as if I have all the answers. I'll just sit back now and enjoy the lost logic, Nico P, linux stb, amicon, preeglow, jhmike S show. I love their discussions. (trying not to highlight any of them).
17:33:24jhMikeSIRC is just performance art
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17:33:57SoapI mean it's great. It's like when your parents read you a bedtime story. You try to follow along in the text of the book, looking over their shoulder and learning to decipher all those letters as they tell a great story.
17:35:18Nico_PSoap: I feel like that too for some discussions :p
17:35:41LloreanThat's what I've been doing the last couple days too.
17:36:00Nico_Plostlogic: I committed the fix
17:36:05Nico_Por "fix"
17:37:21Nico_Poops my commit message has a hole
17:38:03LloreanAlright guys, so I'm going on a long drive later today. My audiobook player is using a pre-MoB build because I was testing on a different one.
17:38:21LloreanSafe to upgrade at this point, or should I be playing it safe for this mission-critical deployment?
17:39:00Nico_PLlorean: do you have time to make sure thee is now breakage for your particular usage pattern?
17:39:35LloreanNico_P: There wasn't any before, for *my* usage pattern. Heh.
17:39:50LloreanI was apparently the only person not getting any data aborts from that first MoB commit.
17:40:05Nico_PI wasn't either...
17:40:35Nico_PI must subconscioulsy know what will break my code and avoid doing it
17:41:02jhMikeSI never got data aborts, just wierd happenings
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17:42:03jhMikeSBut I've used only a Gigabeat over the last week or so and no runs on any other targets yet
17:42:24*Nico_P got his hands on his H300 today
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17:51:58Nico_PjhMikeS: are you able to make sure the forever spin issue isn't happening anymore?
17:52:01LloreanLooking at the new buffer debug screen, I'm noticing it quite often doesn't even fill half the buffer...
17:52:33LloreanIn fact it seems to only buffer at most 3 tracks.
17:54:21kkurbjunhey guys, I think I'm seeing a stack overflow on the mrobe, if I change list.c and remove char entry_buffer[MAX_PATH]; from line 315 and pull it out of the gui_list_draw_smart function (put it on line 171) I start seeing all the menu's correct, once I do that I can see that the main stack is only 57% used though so I'm wondering if it's reasonable to expect that having that buffer in the stack could consume that much extra stack.
17:55:03Nico_PLlorean: how big are the tracks? are you skipping during the initial buffering phase,
17:55:08kkurbjunAlso, does anyone see any problems with moving that buffer outside of the function
17:56:00LloreanNico_P: Varying sizes from 2 mb to maybe 24 mb, MP3 and FLAC. I'll press "down" until the buffer empties, then release and watch, and it'll most frequently buffer 3 tracks, six handles, filling approximately 1/3 to 2/3 of the buffer but leaving a very large portion open
17:56:52kkurbjunanother question is does the stack usage reflect only the current usage, or does it show the max usage?
17:56:53Nico_PLlorean: even for the "alloc" value?
17:56:59LloreanNico_P: Yes
17:57:32Nico_Pare you sure you're not reaching the end of the playlist?
17:57:54LloreanThere are a few thousand entries left in it. :)
17:58:05Nico_Poh ok... sorry for asking but I had to make sure
17:59:39LloreanOkay, to reproduce, wait until all buffering stops, and then press whatever is next track on the player you have at hand, in the buffer debug screen, until it says Tracks and Handles are 0
17:59:41LloreanThen release
17:59:50LloreanAs far as I can see, in that situation it buffers only 3 tracks
18:00:06LloreanMeanwhile, if you let a track end normally and trigger a rebuffer, it buffers fully.
18:00:57Nico_Poh yes I only got two tracks buffered
18:01:19LloreanI'd almost assume this was intentional behaviour: If a user skips a lot, don't fill the whole buffer until they demonstrate they're done skipping. :)
18:01:36Nico_Phaha unfortunately I don't think the code is that smart
18:02:01linuxstb_kkurbjun: It shows the max usage - i.e. how much of the stack is still filled with 0xdeadbeef
18:02:16stripwaxLlorean - that's a great idea :)
18:02:40Nico_PLlorean: It may be a side effect of my latest commit. if you interrupt the adding tracks loop, it might not restart
18:02:49LloreanNico_P: That could very well be it
18:02:58kkurbjunlinuxstb, I wouldn't expect that buffer to consume that much extra stack then..
18:03:03lostlogicNico_P: I see how that would loop −− might want to use queue_peek to see if the next message on the queue is already a fill and if not still send it and maybe also use peek to consume extra messages on the queue... I think we might have had some kind of queue coallescing to prevent many duplicate messages from queuing up −− do we still haev that?
18:03:11LloreanSince in most cases, when I'm down to a portion of one track, it's already attempting to add tracks when I skip again from 1 track to 0 tracks in the buffer
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18:03:23Nico_Plostlogic: we don't have queue_peeek yet I don't think
18:03:33Nico_Pbut yeah that's a way to do it
18:03:33kkurbjunI don't see any recursive calls on that function
18:03:49lostlogicI thought I wrote it... or maybe I did and then used a different method *sigh* senile.
18:04:06linuxstb_kkurbjun: No, it doesn't make sense to me either...
18:04:09jhMikeSNico_P: you committed?
18:04:13Nico_Plostlogic: jhMikeS gave one to me a few days back but I didn't use it
18:04:27Nico_PjhMikeS: yes, and could we have your queue_peek again?
18:04:43jhMikeSjust the basic one? the sim needs the irq stuff now
18:05:18*jhMikeS retypes it really quick
18:05:44kkurbjun:), maybe the iram that I'm using for the stack isn't as large as I thought
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18:08:07kkurbjunlinuxstb, do you know how stack overflows are detected?
18:08:38linuxstb_kkurbjun: No, grep in firmware/ for "deadbeef"
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18:11:53Nico_PjhMikeS: thanks
18:12:05kkurbjunlinuxstb, thanks for answering that, it turns out the iram is smaller than I thought
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18:14:16daveI'm trying to build rockbox with an Ubuntu-based distro, and it's telling me I need arm-elf-gcc. How do I go about getting it?
18:14:50daveI have gcc and binutils already, I figured it would be in there...
18:15:39jhMikeSNico_P: an improvment:
18:15:48Nico_Pdave: run tools/
18:15:57nnkapt-cache search arm gcc
18:16:29Nico_PjhMikeS: can I use it in the sim too?
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18:17:13jhMikeSNico_P: just take out the corelock business
18:20:35jhMikeSif you want a removal option sometimes and not others, just increment read conditionally
18:21:30jhMikeSbut that sort of makes it queue_wait_w_tmo(q, 0) anyway ... maybe pointless then
18:21:56 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
18:22:50Nico_PjhMikeS: is queue_wait() ok for removing the message I just saw with peek() ?
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18:26:51jhMikeSsure as long as nothing would empty it from the outside
18:27:09Nico_Pso wait_w_tmo is safer?
18:28:24jhMikeSno difference really if you design to not allow removal outside the thread's control
18:29:12daveso now that I apparently have what I need, I have to put the rockbox directory in the path of the compiler?
18:29:37jhMikeSI just use queue_empty and queue_wait in mpegplayer and it does the job just fine
18:30:07stripwaxdave create a directory called "build" directly under rockbox, then from there run ../tools/configure
18:30:24Nico_PjhMikeS: you don't need to know which message is there?
18:30:39stripwaxthen just make. you shouldn't need to put the rockbox directory in the path of the compiler yourself
18:31:03jhMikeSI know when I pull it. the thread state says what happens to it next.
18:31:07daveyes, did that, but it's still giving me "the compiler you must use is not in your path!"
18:31:42Nico_Pdave: you need to use tools/ to build the cross-compiler and then add the path it was installed in to your PATH
18:31:53Nico_Pthe script tells you what to add
18:32:19Nico_Pdave: oh, didn't see your last message. you just need to change your PATH
18:32:52daveso I don't have to move the rockbox folder?
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18:35:20Nico_Pdave: you shouldn't need to
18:36:06daveso, changing my PATH consists of changing the directory to /usr/local/arm-elf/bin?
18:36:26daveI'm not totally sure what changing the PATH means
18:36:37Nico_Pdave: PATH is an environment variable in linux
18:36:44Nico_Ptype echo $PATH in a terminal
18:37:16Nico_Pwhen you enter a command, the shell searches the directories in your PATH to find a corresponding binary
18:37:47daveah, I how do you change this guy?
18:38:32daveI see 7 different directories, I assume I'm just adding another one
18:38:37Nico_Peasiest is to add a line in your .bashrc, "export PATH=<some path>:$PATH"
18:38:55Nico_Pwere <some path> was given to you by
18:39:23Nico_Pfor me it's /usr/local/arm-elf/bin/arm-elf-gcc
18:39:45Nico_Perr actually it's /usr/local/arm-elf/bin
18:40:23daveaw sweet, there we go
18:40:57Nico_Pdave: to see which binary is executed by a command, type e.g. "which arm-elf-gcc"
18:41:00dave(Borat voice) very nice
18:41:18Nico_Pgreat success!
18:42:08davewow, I guess it's no surprise it compiles faster than Windows running VMware
18:42:31Nico_Pno it's not... you can also use ccache to speed things up even more
18:42:49davehow do you do that?
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18:45:13Nico_Psudo aptitude install ccache, then reconfigure your build and you should see "using ccache" in the configure output. that's all
18:45:37davecool, found it in the synaptic pacakge manager
18:45:47Nico_Pyou'll see the difference when doing things like make; make clean; make... the second make call will be super fast
18:46:58daveI'm quite new to Linux, and doing stuff on this level is certainly still way over my head
18:48:02daveI'm not a big fan of programming, it's kind of a love-hate relationship for in this situation and hate in almost any other
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18:48:49Nico_Plinux takes some getting used to, but once you're a bit used to it you progress fast... I speak from experience
18:49:39davewhat distro do you use?
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18:50:17ompaulits a pretty distro agnostic function
18:50:37SegadudeIs there a way to play NES games on rockbox?
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18:50:44ompauldave, what you want is an editor that you feel happy with
18:51:55Nico_PjhMikeS: is it possible that what I'm doing could muck up a queue_send call?
18:52:14daveI'm running Linux Mint, simply because it comes preinstalled with a lot of stuff
18:52:33stripwaxSegadude - there's this
18:52:45davelike Amarok, though it uses the Gnome desktop environment
18:52:55daveI could never get KDE to work in Ubuntu
18:53:16markunlinuxstb_: didn't find anything about a boot mode for the clix2 so far
18:53:23daveanyway, this is a discussion for the community channel, so thanks for your help, Nico_P
18:53:44Nico_Pyou're welcome ;)
18:53:47jhMikeSNico_P: that depends. peeking won't
18:53:54 Quit dave ("Ex-Chat")
18:53:57Nico_Pand waiting?
18:54:08Nico_P(with tmo)
18:54:21linuxstb_markun: It will most likely be called "recovery mode" by iriver. But yes, it's possible there is no way to access it - my DAB player doesn't have it (afaik) without doing a hardware mod.
18:54:24Segadudecool thanks!
18:54:28jhMikeSwaiting will reply to the last thread waiting for reply
18:55:15Nico_PjhMikeS: then that's my problem :/
18:55:45jhMikeSReply is automatic if you wait again. It must flush out any thread that hasn't gotten a reponse.
18:56:11Nico_PjhMikeS: then I need to remove a message from the top of the queue without answering
18:57:22Nico_Pbasically my wait() call is in audio_fill_file_buffer which gets called by audio_check_new_track, which is supposed to reply to the codec thread. the problem is that my wait call replies to the codec thread, which believes an error has occured and stops playback
18:57:30jhMikeSyou must answer at some point. the automatic answer is to the previous message you pulled.
18:57:37 Quit petur ("*real life*")
18:58:18Nico_PjhMikeS: the answer is supposed to be done later on
18:59:25jhMikeSso, if queue_reply hasn't been called for a message (if sent) by the time you wait again, it goes auto.
19:00 you want to pull a message, delay, then wait again without answering to the first?
19:00:54jhMikeSdelay == do other stuff in between
19:02:01Nico_PI want to pull a message without replying, do stuff, then reply
19:02:14jhMikeSbut you might handle other messages in between?
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19:02:44Nico_Ponly one type
19:03:15jhMikeSqueues can't work that way no matter. senders are released in fifo order and must be.
19:03:31Nico_Pmakes sense
19:04:36jhMikeSyou need to use an automatic event I think and signal the thread it should wait through the return value. Threads will be released in FIFO order from the event when you pulse it.
19:05:57 Quit illissius` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:08:28Nico_PjhMikeS: I think I found a satisfactory enough solution
19:08:54jhMikeSas in?
19:09:28Nico_PI don't remove the message but still use queue_peek to avoid posting duplicate 'fill buffer' messages
19:10:04jhMikeSon who's end...the senders?
19:10:29 Quit SirFunk (Remote closed the connection)
19:10:42Nico_PI'll pastebin a patch
19:11:12Nico_P(it's related to my latest commit)
19:11:15jhMikeSI'm just trying to come up with a 100% atomic approach
19:12:38lostlogicNico_P: just fyi, I'm really impressed with how smoothly the MoB commit has gone... specially knowing how hard it is to get right from my own attempts.
19:12:54Nico_Pbefore my commit I would unconditionally post Q_AUDIO_FILL_BUFFER if the queue wasn't empty. after my commit, I would never do it
19:13:31Nico_Plostlogic: thanks :) I was a bit disappointed with the number of bugs left... I'm thankful you were there
19:14:12lostlogicNico_P: there will always be bugs with a big commit, but your code was easy enough to understand and work on that they weren't nearly as hard to find as a lot of the bugs in the old system ended up being, that's a big positive for any piece of code.
19:15:12jhMikeSNico_P: got a diff I can just make a patch from? It's missing stuff. I want to look at context.
19:16:55jhMikeSWell, look at the queue head from the posting end isn't really safe.
19:17:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:17:43Nico_PjhMikeS: just a sec
19:17:47lostlogicjhMikeS: is it not safe like dangerous or not safe like not necessarily correct? This is a heuristic use, there's no need for it to always be right as long as it's never dangerous
19:17:57jhMikeSThere are some exceptions but those require the lock held
19:18:33jhMikeSit _could_ possibly miss posting a message
19:19:09 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:19:26lostlogicwhat do you mean miss posting? how can a r/o operation cause the queue to break?
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19:21:10jhMikeSonce you've left the lock, it's no longer r/o. the message you detected could be gone by the queue_post.
19:22:18lostlogicoh sure, that's fine though, the worst case of that is that we bounce out of the loop an extra time or stay in the loop one iteration too long, not bad cases
19:22:59lostlogicpeeking should never be used in a make or brake, that's obvious, neither even shoudl queue_empty() they are both just heuristic optimizations
19:23:17jhMikeSLike I said, I'm not fully down with everything that's been done. Maybe a bounce makes no difference in this case.
19:24:04jhMikeSbut queue_empty is a polling mechanism synced with the thread that in effect owns the queue...that's very different
19:24:38jhMikeSfor the wheel drivers and such it's just fine there. it really depends on the particulars.
19:25:18*sd chokes and passes out after trying to get dsp56k gcc working for a day long
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19:25:59Nico_Pthere's a bit of noise
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19:29:09lostlogicNico_P: I think that there was a consuming loop in the old audio_thread that would eat any duplicate fill messages before starting fill to make sure it wouldn't just jump right back out of the filling loop
19:29:50Nico_Plostlogic: the problem here is that consuming a message will reply to the codec thread
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19:30:09lostlogicahhh *nod*
19:30:18Nico_Pwhich has sent a check new track message
19:30:36jhMikeSNico_P: what format is that? It still says "only garbage"
19:31:01jhMikeSwoops git I see
19:31:15Nico_PjhMikeS: trying a better one
19:31:27 Quit moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:32:43jhMikeSwhat if something generates other messages and the head no longer has a Q_AUDIO_FILL_BUFFER there? won't it behave similarly?
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19:34:30Nico_PjhMikeS: similarly to what?
19:35:11BigBambiipod chaps - are there any hardware restrictions on ipod button combinations (video in particular)
19:35:13jhMikeSyou'll post another one
19:36:46Nico_Pis there another way?
19:37:43lostlogicBigBambi: yes, there are −− I think only select and menu can be combined with other buttons, but I coudl be wrong on the specifics
19:38:10BigBambiOK, cheers. I'm used to the retrictions on H1x0 but not iPods
19:38:33jhMikeSugh, that still won't apply in playback.c and mines clean
19:39:01jhMikeSwait you said you committed something...guess I should up first
19:39:12Nico_Pyes, it changes the same area
19:39:14jhMikeSah better
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19:41:57jhMikeSah, ok, it is on the audio thread
19:42:48jhMikeScontext makes all the difference :)
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19:43:42bistouri(sansa target) Hello, are there known problems with latest sansapatcher ?
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19:45:21linuxstb_bistouri: I don't think so. Are you having a problem?
19:45:36Nico_PLlorean: I have a fix for the issue you reported
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19:47:35bistourilinuxstb_: not me but a guy who just installed rockbox from my forum
19:48:00Nico_PjhMikeS: so, ok to commit?
19:48:21jhMikeSI took some similar approaches to mpegplayer initially but abandoned them since it makes the code more complex and has the danger of unexpected order. If a buffering state is registered, the state can tell it to go back. Some other message may change the state to something that shouldn't buffer.
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19:48:58bistourilinuxstb_: i'll ask him wich version of sansapatcher he used
19:50:31Nico_PjhMikeS: I've been thinking of the state machine approach and might try to implement it, but I'm not sure it'll be worth it
19:50:57Nico_Pie I'll try to implement it if I decide it's worth it ;)
19:51:24Nico_Pthe audio and buffering thread don't have much different states
19:54:13jhMikeSI think all those bools could become a single state int. the stuff in mpegplayer dinguishes media state from thread state though.
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19:55:49Nico_PjhMikeS: the bools describe a different state there
19:56:36 Quit nnk ("hibernate")
19:56:51Nico_Pin the scope of the changes I'm about to commit, the state is simply "adding tracks" or "not adding tracks"
19:57:02 Join [fab] [0] (
19:57:08Nico_Pand it is completely independant of playing or paused
19:57:51jhMikeSyes and mpegplayer buffers while paused too
19:59:40jhMikeSit's tripped by sending a play command with data (force buffering) to true. it continues until it reaches some other state then polls as long as it's in state running.
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20:05:17Nico_PjhMikeS: I'll commit this for now and seriously consider the state approach. you're starting to convice me :)
20:05:39Nico_PjhMikeS: it's ok if I commit queue_peek?
20:08:27jhMikeSone difference is the buffering is fully background there except for some initial filling done in the stream manager but that could be moved
20:08:49Nico_Pthere == in mpegplayer?
20:10:08jhMikeSyeah. it sort of forces me to find simple things because of multiple streams.
20:12:48jhMikeSright now I'm doing the flat window thing (which I implemented before but never committed)
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20:25:23markunjhMikeS: do you recognize any ARM code in here?
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20:26:25jhMikeSdid you try objdump?
20:27:57markunyes, trying it with various options
20:28:39linuxstb_Did you try big-endian?
20:29:47markunbig, little and both also with thumb
20:30:06markunmaybe I need to set an offset
20:30:34markunthe file starts with U20CLIX, so it looks like ifp_decode did it's job
20:31:03jhMikeSIt looks armish...I see what appears to be little functions with a bunch of data-ish stuff nearby...just at 3E2720 for example
20:32:51jhMikeSbut that could be any risc-type processor...the bytes seem not so arm-ish
20:33:11linuxstb_markun: Is that supposed to have a Telechips CPU?
20:33:20markunarm6, right?
20:33:49jhMikeSalot of thumb code? I recognize the non-thumb more easily.
20:34:06linuxstb_I'm not sure about the TCC7801 - I think it has dual cores - a 926 and 946
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20:35:14markunjhMikeS: I didn't say it contained thumb code, just trying a few things
20:35:53jhMikeSI'm looking at bytes and normal you'd see a lot of Ex xx xx xx for intstruction code
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20:38:35linuxstb_markun: Where did you get that file from? You said you had to use ifpdecode?
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20:42:36markunquite a lot of 0000 0000 0000 ... at the end, not sure what it could tell us
20:42:38linuxstb_markun: Have you found confirmation anywhere that's it's Telechips? I've seen a few references, but no photos...
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20:46:04linuxstb_markun: Yes, it definitely seems telechips tcc7801 -
20:46:28jhMikeSif it's arm, it looks like it might be BE. did you try that?
20:47:53linuxstb_He said he did.
20:48:20jhMikeSoh, woops
20:49:17 Quit jaczehack ("CGI:IRC")
20:50:57jhMikeSoooh...that's not arm or not plaintext. I'm looking at a dump of rb for gigabeat now and the pattern is very different
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20:54:29jhMikeSunless you know already but it's interesting to look at it this way anyhow. is that a bl or fw?
20:54:45linuxstb_Based on the size, I would hope it's the fw...
20:55:19jhMikeStrue...I just wonder what they'll put in bl these days
20:55:20linuxstb_I'm not sure how someone could write an 11MB bootloader ;)
20:55:28markunI could imagine that it's double encrypted
20:55:49markun1 time the standard iriver method which is decrypted by the flash util
20:56:01jhMikeSIt hardly looks uniformly random
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21:00:34jhMikeSIt's a dead ringer in appearance for a SH hex dump though
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21:03:03markunwhat about i386? :)
21:03:58jhMikeSwant a sample from rb SH fw? it looks the same.
21:03:59linuxstb_markun: Are you interested in the clix2?
21:04:23markunnot really :)
21:04:54markunbut it's a nice puzzle
21:07:03linuxstb_It's definitely different to all other telechips devices I've seen...
21:07:59linuxstb_The D2 also has the same tcc7801, but uses the same firmware format as the tcc77x devices - which is described on the TelechipsInfo wiki page.
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21:17:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:29:18drstrangeis it possible to create landscape based wps screens?
21:29:42krazykitdrstrange, short answer, no
21:30:00krazykitassuming you're on a portrait target, of course
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21:30:38drstrangethank you
21:30:42 Quit ilgufo (Nick collision from services.)
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21:30:56drstrangei am on a potrait target
21:32:50Minaxit there a way to get to play GBA roms on rockbox? or will it be too memory hoggin?
21:33:02drstrangememory hogging
21:33:41Minaxhas it been tried?
21:33:51drstrangecan someone explain what cpu frequency refers to
21:34:23Soaplinuxstb: you asked for me 11 hours ago?
21:34:41drstrangeis the 8-digit value shown a representation of Mhz?
21:35:05linuxstb_Soap: Yes, I was going to ask you to test something on your C100, but it seems tarsius is on top of things.
21:36:09linuxstb_Soap: Do you use Windows or Linux?
21:36:25 Quit drstrange ("CGI:IRC")
21:41:08Soaplinuxstb: if you see tarsius before I do - I /believe/ I have read that the ipod adapter will fit into a C100 with a little bit of shaving on the mating pins. I also believe that the pin-pitch is the same between the two adapters. IF all this is correct AND tarsius wants some plugs (so he doesn't have to strip Sansa cables) I am willing to send him one or two.
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21:46:16linuxstb_Soap: OK. I think we're a long way from them being useful to him though...
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21:49:34Soaplinuxstb_: I use both.
21:49:54SoapWindows and CoLinux on my desktop, and linux on my laptop.
21:51:07linuxstb_If you wanted, you could test tcctool (on your laptop - it needs native Linux) with the c100.
21:53:38linuxstb_You just need to get the latest version of utils/tcctool/ from SVN, type "make" in that directory (you need libusb), put your c100 in recovery mode, and then type "./tcctool -d c100 player.rom", where player.rom is the firmware upgrade file. for your c100.
21:54:03linuxstb_It should load the firmware file to RAM and execute it - it won't update the firmware.
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21:56:00Bam1Hey, i downloaded Winff 2.91, then i opened the presets with Dev-c++, selected all and pasted in the new presets. I then saved. After that i doubled clicked on the shortcut on my desktop and i received an error.
21:56:11Bam1"access violation"
21:56:37Bam1Press ok to ignore / press cancel to kill the program
21:57:07Bam1if i hit ok it gives me a runtime error thing, if i hit cancel, it cancels
21:57:24 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
21:58:02SoapIt sounds like from what you said that WinFF is crashing upon launch - not upon the starting of ffmpeg?
21:58:16 Join rep|icant [0] (n=rep|
21:58:41Soapok, did WinFF crash /before/ you edited the presets xml file?
21:59:04Bam1( i opened it before i did the presets =P)
21:59:22Soapone sec
21:59:39Bam1Erm, maybe when i copied and pasted i copied to much or too little?
22:00:12Bam1oh! i downloaded 0.291, not 0.29 (because there was no 0.29) do you think that could be a problem?
22:00:19SoapWell, I do think the evidence clearly points to the editing of the presets file going poorly. ;)
22:01:22Soapto avoid any potential cut-paste errors, why not simply go back to the wiki page:
22:01:35Soapand right-click the presets.xml link and do a "save as"
22:01:52Bam1oh i c
22:02:04Bam1will do
22:02:52Bam1woot in a can!
22:02:53Bam1it worked
22:03:03*Bam1 hugs soap
22:04:00Bam1can i put videos on it?
22:04:09Bam1i mean movies
22:05:21linuxstb_Isn't that the point?
22:05:31Bam1well yes
22:05:36Bam1but i think i read somewhere
22:05:43Bam1that it cant handel, videos longer then 10 minutes
22:05:47markunlinuxstb_: do you have an example of some TCC encrypted file?
22:05:59linuxstb_markun: Sure, but they're not encrypted.
22:06:18 Quit rep|icant_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:07:30linuxstb_Did you see the TelechipsInfo wiki page?
22:07:40markunno, I'll look at it
22:07:46SoapBam1: What I am /assuming/ you are refering to is an OLD issue with Mpegplayer not being able to rebuffer, and thus having playback runtime limited by the amount of data it could initially buffer.
22:08:06SoapThere is no such issue at this point in time.
22:09:54Bam1simpsons movie on my ipod!
22:10:37 Join homielowe [0] (
22:11:43Bam1how long would a 351mb video take to convert with WinFF?
22:12:03coozi encoded lately one episode of 40min tv show, plays like a charm
22:12:33coozto 128x80 res on 3200xp cpu about 10min
22:12:37Bam1i downloaded the simpsons movie and now im converting that o.0
22:12:48Bam1or encoding
22:12:49Bam1i mean
22:13:22Bam1argh i think this will take a while
22:13:40Bam140kb out of 351kb
22:15:14Bam1peace guys
22:15:18 Quit Bam1 ()
22:16:22linuxstb_markun: PM
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22:28:02Bam1yeah my video
22:28:06Bam1turned out horribly
22:28:24Bam1the sounds great, but the video (when i played it from my desktop, not the ipod) looks all choppedup
22:29:25Bam1nvm i think it was just that i played it from the desktop
22:29:41Bam1yup its all good now lol sorry
22:29:45*Bam1 is embarresed
22:29:45SoapBam1: Ok, early on I was tolerant of the conversation which was only marginally on-topic. Currently this has nothing to do with Rockbox and everything to do with video-encoding - which is more of a question.
22:29:55 Quit Bam1 (Client Quit)
22:36:12amiconnmarkun: The ipod video is a pretty sucky target even if we get the power issue solved
22:36:17Minaxso has a plugin for playing gba roms been attempted?
22:36:41amiconn(unless someone finds *all* the secrets about the bcm2722)
22:37:04amiconnThe poor PP really struggles with the bare amount of pixels
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22:39:21amiconnJust the YUV -> RGB conversion maxes out at ~27fps fullscreen when neglecting the broadcom finishup wait. That's just the conversion, without any video decoding running, at 80MHz
22:40:14amiconnAbout 30 cpu cycles per pixel - that's already pretty efficient
22:41:02 Quit homielowe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:41:24n1sMinax: no and most of our targets wouldn't be able to handle it
22:43:21Minaxah well
22:43:55*amiconn wonders what's up with the UI freeze on G5 :\
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22:46:44n1samiconn: is there any advantage to running many mac instructions following each other? as compared to running say 4 and doing something else and running 4 more?
22:47:25amiconnThat doesn't matter as long as you take care of the latency when fetching the result
22:47:54n1sok, and that latency is just from accessing the acc registers, right?
22:48:44amiconnYou should put 2 instructions (or one taking 2 or more machine cycles) between the last mac instruction and the move.l/movclr.l from %accX
22:48:46*n1s is trying to turn tremor mdct into asm
22:50:29amiconnThe ape filter is a perfect example of a looong streak of mac instructions. It runs nothing but mac instructions (with parallel load) in sequence, only interrupted by loop control every 16 instructions, for the whole filter depth, which can be 16, 32, 64, 256 or 1280 samples
22:50:39n1sthe beginning is looking quite good, with mdct_butterfly_8/16/32 done speed increased from 319->326 %realtime
22:51:14amiconnWith mac it's often better to run a straight idct (without butterflies) afaiu
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22:51:31n1samiconn: I've been looking at that and a lot of other rockbox coldfire asm to see how things are done generally
22:51:40amiconnNot sure about 1d - this is not exactly my main area....
22:52:55n1samiconn: I've mostly been turning c into asm not so much making another implementation
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22:59:51Zagorwhat frequency are we running the sansas during usb mode? what do we know about the pp usb controller clocking? could it be that it needs to run a certain speed to get the correct bus timings?
23:00:40Robin0800with latest svn ipod video is boosted all the time very poor battery life more buffering problems?
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23:05:00Robin0800any one ? confirm this problem
23:08:49 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
23:09:53rasherkeanu: Just strip the binaries after building. See the UiSimuator wiki page for details (at the bottom)
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23:36:28SoapShould there be a post in the "Announcements" section of the forums regarding MoB - and if so, should there be a call for bug-hunting? Or should the existing pratice of bug submission be continued?
23:36:38 Quit desowin ("use linux")
23:37:27amiconnjhMikeS: Do you have any idea what 0x70000080 might be?
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23:38:15n1sSoap: as the intention is/was that there should be no user-visible change except in a few cases i don't think it is necessary
23:38:59n1salso I think declaring bug-hunting season open will result in a flood of duplicates... :-/
23:41:13bertrikI've seen some weirdness, like rockbox freezing completely and playback stopping spontaneously after the mob commit, but I cannot really pinpoint it
23:41:46n1sbertrik: even after all the fixes committed today?
23:42:16bertrikyes, i svn updated a few hours ago
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23:43:17n1sthere was a report for spontaneous stopping iirc but it's closed now...
23:44:20bertrikalso I'm hearing subtle ticks in playback every 20 seconds or so, that I didn't hear before
23:44:41n1sbertrik: which player?
23:44:46bertriksansa e200
23:45:15n1ssounds weird, are you sure they weren't there before?
23:46:30bertriknot completely sure, it's very subtle
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23:47:40amiconnHmm, that looks interesting. The OF broadcom transfer calls a special subroutine when the transfer is >= 256 byte, and that routine in turn calls flush_cache. Maybe they use DMA...
23:50:17jhMikeSamiconn: I think that looked like some pin config or something.
23:50:46amiconnThe G5 OF resets a number of bits in it in a function dealing with the bcm
23:51:14n1sbertrik: I would put it in the tracker with as much detail as possible, like which codecs it happens with, maybe captured output from the player where the tick can be heard and also compared with output before the bug was introduced etc
23:51:20amiconnNot sure yet how if and how that part is called...
23:51:47bertrikok, I'll have a closer look, tomorrow
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23:52:27jhMikeSactually, it's used in the e200 lcd driver as the chip reset
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23:53:28amiconnAha, hmm...
23:53:33jhMikeSI think 0x70000020 was the thing that looked like a pin config reg (from comparing the H10 ADC setup with e200 et al.0
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23:58:47 Part [fab] ("Konversation terminated!")
23:58:53krican't get 'rockbox' to work on my ipod video 80 gb. :(

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