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#rockbox log for 2007-10-30

00:03:41 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:05:58 Quit linuxstb_ ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
00:12:32 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:13:41 Quit bertrik ("bye")
00:14:21amiconnpreglow: Hmm? clip_sample() is #if 0'd...
00:16:26preglowamiconn: but used verbatim (plus bugs i removed...) in sample_output_dithered
00:16:51preglowanyway, it doesn't work if range >= 2^31 - 1
00:17:00preglowwhich is the case for wma.c, which outputs with 30 frac bits
00:17:09preglowcan you see a way around that?
00:17:20amiconnsure... range is an int32, and can't assume larger values
00:17:36PaulJamlittle question, is there with current build a problem with flac files? it just stops playing after or while rebuffering, no hard crash. could it be a problem with the file being larger than the buffer?
00:17:36preglowit doesn't handle the case of max integer value either
00:17:39preglow2^31 - 1, that is
00:17:41amiconnYou would need to use an uint32 to start with
00:18:10amiconnIn fact range can assume that value, but it's its max value
00:18:17amiconnAnd why do you need to clip at all then??
00:18:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:18:50*amiconn is puzzled by the bcm :/
00:19:46preglowamiconn: it's just plain broken for such large numbers, i'm just wondering if you know of another scheme that works for that case
00:19:55preglowif not, i'm going to just replace it with a naive clip
00:20:08 Join donutman25 [0] (n=chatzill@
00:20:25amiconnWhy do you need to clip if you use the full range anyway? That's what I don't get...
00:21:12*amiconn can't help if he doesn't understand the problem
00:21:13preglowi don't use the full range, i only use -2^30 to 2^30 - 1
00:21:29preglowthe range value is max - min, which is 2^31 - 1
00:22:04preglowso there's still range enough to clip, but this particular scheme doesn't work because of the big values
00:22:09 Join J3TC- [0] (
00:23:03 Join iamben [0] (
00:23:41 Join midgey [0] (
00:23:50 Quit FOAD (Remote closed the connection)
00:25:20amiconnHmm, I'm not sure I understand how clip_sample is even supposed to work
00:25:49jhMikeSI'm sure that because I wrote it :P
00:26:05amiconnIs 'min' the actual minimum, or the negative of it?
00:26:06preglowjhMikeS: wonderful! then you fix it! :P
00:26:11preglowamiconn: the actual
00:26:25preglowamiconn: -2^x - 1
00:26:25jhMikeSyou're saying something is using the full int32 range?
00:26:27 Join FOAD [0] (
00:26:40preglowamiconn: ehh, -2^x
00:26:50preglowjhMikeS: clipping from -2^30 to 2^30 - 1 messes up badly, overflows on positive clips
00:27:25preglowjhMikeS: so basically, it seems to bug out when frac_bits >= 30
00:27:54jhMikeSit makes efficient asm when compiled though
00:28:00 Join jdgordy [0] (
00:28:08amiconnpreglow: I guess just the part within the if() {} is messed
00:28:18 Part toffe82
00:28:27amiconnI 'd write that differently
00:29:09 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
00:29:42preglowi'm open for suggestions from the both of you
00:30:10jhMikeSwhat uses 30 bits anyway?
00:30:18 Join louisj [0] (
00:30:59roolkujdgordy: I am working on the FS #8008, so leave it alone please. :)
00:31:03preglowjhMikeS: wma
00:31:10 Part louisj
00:31:26preglowjhMikeS: i'm going to adjust that downwards, but that still doesn't make that clipping function work right
00:31:30jhMikeSthat's the dither thing with WMA?
00:31:35preglowjhMikeS: aye
00:31:35jdgordyroolku Ok :
00:31:45amiconnif ((uint32_t)(sample - min) > (uint32_t)range) { c = min; if (sample > min) c += range; sample = c }
00:32:30amiconnThe "c > 0" is probably what doesn't work in the current version
00:32:54 Quit jdgordy ("DSOrganize IRC")
00:33:13preglowamiconn: that is correct
00:33:17jhMikeSit does work but I guess excess range messes it up?
00:34:37preglowwhich means it doesn't work :P
00:34:46preglowthat's where the bug happened anyway
00:35:27 Join JdGordon [0] (
00:35:29jhMikeStrue, the contract isn't totally fullfilled :)
00:35:37 Join Spiritsoulx [0] (n=eyes_of_@
00:35:55*pixelma wonders if her one wma that has audible glitches in rb suffers from the same...
00:35:56 Quit Spiritsoulx (Client Quit)
00:35:57jhMikeSrange should be unsigned anyway
00:36:19JdGordonroolku: do you tihnk it would make sense to add the option to allow the int values to work?
00:36:28preglowamiconn: sounds good
00:36:32amiconnWell, if the clip should be always symmetrical, it could be simplified further
00:36:37preglowpixelma: is it really clipped?
00:36:45pixelmait's clipping that's for sure and I sent it to saratoga a while ago - he wanted to look into it but had no time since then
00:37:04preglowamiconn: as it's used right now: yes, the usual [-2^x, 2^x - 1] type clip
00:37:45preglowpixelma: a file that clips really badly and has overflow distortion?
00:37:48preglowpixelma: if so, this'll fix it
00:37:51jhMikeSwell, it was meant for arbitrary, not symmetrical or 2^something
00:37:55preglowpixelma: that is, if you have dithering enabled :)
00:38:03pixelmapreglow: it was better in the better in the beginning of the wma codec. It had an audible glitch but wasn't that obvious
00:38:08preglowjhMikeS: sure, but we don't need arbitrary, do we ?
00:38:12jhMikeSand to minimize the overhead for the majority of things that don't clip
00:38:18preglowpixelma: then that's probably not what's going on
00:38:24preglowpixelma: i'll have that file if you can be bothered
00:38:40pixelmaI think I haven't enabled dithering, if it's not default...
00:38:45jhMikeSpreglow: I didn't know the answer to that at the time so didn't assume that.
00:39:03preglowjhMikeS: sure, just wondering if we're doing it currently, or might want to
00:39:10preglowjhMikeS: can't think of a reason for it right now
00:39:19pixelmapreglow: you want the file?
00:39:26preglowpixelma: sure
00:39:51jhMikeSpreglow: There used to be an arbitrary range the codec would set but those DSP messages were removed.
00:39:54amiconnlinuxstb: Around?
00:40:06preglowjhMikeS: yeah, that's right
00:40:53amiconnSeems the bcm doesn't care about any of the parameters in lcd_bcm_setup_rect() except the actual rectangle coordinates
00:40:59jhMikeSI guess if ((uint32_t)sample > (1u << bits)) would be better or something
00:41:29jhMikeSdoes that work? can't tell right now. just ate dinner.
00:41:30preglowjhMikeS: i'm just gonna leave it as amiconn wrote it for now
00:41:30amiconnThat would have to be >=
00:41:49preglowi don't think we're missing many cycles here
00:42:06preglowcan't be bothered to bug test more, i like this ratm track :)
00:42:20preglowclipped though it may be
00:43:15PaulJamdid anyone notice that playback stops in the middle of a file if it is bigger than the buffer? i have seen this with mp3 and flac files.
00:44:29peturPaulJam: you need pondlife or Nico_P
00:44:32preglowwell, that sounds nice...
00:44:32*jhMikeS hasn't listened to any such tracks yet so would have missed out on the fun
00:47:05 Quit kkurbjun (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:47:25jhMikeSok, a 15:10 beethoven flac should do it
00:49:00jhMikeSPaulJam: does it cut it off and continue or playback just stops entirely?
00:49:21*petur spots serious musical differences... beethoven <-> ratm :)
00:50:00*jhMikeS has that too
00:50:02PaulJamplayback just stops, but it stays in the WPS and isn't frozen, playback status is still play.
00:50:21roolkuJdGordon: the only potentially useful tag I can see would be year and personally I can't see the benefit.
00:51:37 Join Spiritsoulx|hw [0] (n=eyes_of_@
00:51:43JdGordoncan you update tagnavi.config for the extra options? I was going to but realised i didnt know how it worked :p
00:51:47Spiritsoulx|hwDoes anything have the link to the Rockbox Installer?
00:52:40jhMikeShmmm...must be waiting for rebuffer that never happens or something
00:52:54Spiritsoulx|hwNo, there's an installation program.
00:53:04Spiritsoulx|hwSo you don't have to download the .zip file.
00:53:35roolkuJdGordon: do we really need them all in? maybe #title#, but the rest seems of limited use and more suitable for the custom_config
00:53:50JdGordonI dunno
00:54:30roolkuJdGordon: we don't have ordinary searches for all the tags either
00:55:29*jhMikeS restarts with a 105MB flac
00:55:41 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@
00:55:42PaulJamjhMikeS: i maybe have found a pattern when it stops. it looks like the remaining data form the song that doesn't get played is a whole multiple of the total amount of buffer.
00:55:48rasherPerhaps an "Installer [beta]" link is in order soon?
00:55:59peturSpiritsoulx|hw: and also
00:56:15peturrasher: yes
00:56:18 Quit Spiritsoulx|hw (Client Quit)
00:56:31peturoh nice, thank you too
00:57:07 Join karashata [0] (
00:57:42 Quit animeloe (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:57:54 Quit jumijoze (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:58:53jhMikeSPaulJam: would be interesting. is that confirmed? it doesn't seem too likely to work out like that.
01:00:10 Join animeloe [0] (
01:00:19PaulJamwell, it could be a coincidence, but i confimed it with 4 files. it almost looks as if the song "ends" at the correct position in the buffer, but just one ore more rebuffers too early.
01:01:51jhMikeSpreglow: what's the point of NATIVE_DEPTH anyway?
01:02:58 Join jumijoze [0] (n=jumijoze@unaffiliated/mike-zed)
01:04:44amiconnpreglow: The version in the #if0 block misses a semicolon...
01:04:48pixelmarasher: what do you mean with the installer link?
01:05:01preglowamiconn: woops, i completely forgot about it
01:05:05rasherpixelma: in the menu on
01:05:11amiconnNot that it matters...
01:06:13pixelmarasher: ah, I see. At least it is already linked and described in the manual...
01:06:22preglowjhMikeS: point? not having a constant? *shrug*
01:06:37preglowjhMikeS: i guess we envisioned using multiple depths by now :P
01:06:42rasherpixelma: ideally a regular user wouldnt have to look at the manual before he hits trouble
01:06:48preglownot that NATIVE_DEPTH would have helped us in that...
01:06:55*preglow needs sleep, he thinks
01:07:41jhMikeSpreglow: we use multiple depths? wow! :P
01:08:12*amiconn could need someone with a plain G5 (hw rev <= 0xb0009) who could do a number of experiments
01:08:21preglowjhMikeS: but i don't really get what you mean, what's wrong with NATIVE_DEPTH?
01:08:39preglowamiconn: doesn't linuxstb have one of those guys?
01:09:10amiconnHence my trigger ~30 minutes ago
01:09:56jhMikeSpreglow: I guess we scale up for <= NATIVE_DEPTH but not for >. So what's the point in upscaling? Fractional stuf later?
01:10:43 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
01:10:55 Join mrmacky [0] (
01:11:11jhMikeSI suppose it keeps precision higher during the processing of low-depth audio.
01:11:34preglowit does
01:11:53preglowthere'd be no point in not shifting it up anyway
01:12:13preglowsince we have to put the samples in 32 bit arrays
01:12:57jhMikeSless crud in dsp.c ? Since it's not really crud I guess ... ignore me :)
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01:13:27 Quit mrmacky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:13:31 Nick mrmacky_ is now known as mrmacky (
01:13:53preglowi wouldn't really call it crud, no :P
01:14:04 Quit Isolinear (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:14:11preglowbtw, think of a fancy way to fix the overflowing in eq_filter() for me ...
01:19:46jhMikeSit is overflowing afterall?
01:21:30jhMikeSI guess for ARM5 and above use the builtin clipping. :) For the puny one, I never could do it in fewer than four instructions.
01:23:14preglowjhMikeS: the fixed point format fixup (left shift) is clipping
01:23:29preglowjhMikeS: arm5 doesn't have builtin clipping
01:24:03 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
01:24:11preglowit does have a saturating add, but i can't shift with that :>
01:24:19 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
01:24:45jhMikeSah yes, that's exactly why I used emac for shifts on cf but needs int mode
01:24:49preglowarm6 does have a saturating shift :/
01:25:14preglowjhMikeS: int mode mac shifts can only do one shift left, doesn't help me
01:25:27preglowi've used that once for free shift, though, in speex
01:25:36jhMikeSnono. multiply by 2^shift
01:26:09preglowwhy wouldn't that work in frac mode?
01:26:23jhMikeSBecause frac mode multiplies by <= 1?
01:26:38preglowit's up to you to interpret what format your data is
01:26:42 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
01:27:10preglowhrhmmmno, it wouldn't help me far, i still need to save my filter history as 32 bit ints
01:27:12jhMikeSIt wont work because frac mode will never produce more bits.
01:27:23preglowand then those would overflow
01:28:08preglowshit, i'm just inclined to have people enjoy that overflow noise
01:28:11jhMikeSthe result will stay saturated to 32-bits anyway
01:28:31preglowit'll sound only marginally worse than the incredibly bad clipping they'd been hearing for the last 12 decibels
01:29:13 Join toffe82 [0] (
01:29:14jhMikeSwraparound is horribly noisy..even by 1
01:29:51preglowarm6 has exactly what i need :/
01:30:36jhMikeSI suppose an ARM_ARCH #define is in order. Isn't something ARM6 coming in the fold?
01:31:34preglowi doubt it
01:31:43preglowarm6 is really high up the ladder
01:37:30jhMikeShmmm...something just occured to be about the shift. use rotate, see if r2 asr r12 == r10
01:38:40jhMikeSmaybe rol isn't even needed...hmmm
01:39:08*preglow waits patiently :V
01:39:34 Join SirFunk [0] (
01:40:47jhMikeSmov r2, r2, r10, asl r12. cmp r10, r2, asr r12, beq <over the clamping code>. sound right?
01:41:20jhMikeSr10 = r11 :p
01:41:57jhMikeS..and delete an r2 from that mov there. oy...
01:42:02preglowyes... :)
01:42:29 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:42:36preglowthat would work
01:42:39preglowyes,yes it woudl
01:42:45preglowand it would also work for coldfire, but slow shit down
01:43:25jhMikeSmvnne r2, r10, asr #31 for clamp
01:43:40jhMikeSno, that's unsigned...argh
01:44:16 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
01:44:21preglowhrmph, asl.l on coldfire never touches overflow, would have been extra cool if it set overflow if it shifted out any 1 bits
01:44:24 Quit midgey ()
01:44:29preglowgeh, that would break for negative numbers
01:44:43 Join midgey [0] (
01:44:52preglowif it set overflow when shifting out any bit not corresponding to the first bit it saw :P
01:45:03jhMikeSyeah, right :)
01:45:08 Quit midgey (Client Quit)
01:46:01jhMikeSthere's little fancy thing to actually do the clamp...I'd actually need to code it in place to see it clearly
01:47:08preglowgo ahead
01:47:18preglowi already have code in there i don't use in normal builds
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01:49:58 Part pixelma
01:53:26jhMikeS <= probably a slightly more elegant way exists but the beq is likely faster than conditional execution
01:54:46 Join TotallyInfected [0] (
01:55:28preglowit has to be optimized for non-clippe samples anyway
01:56:27preglowthat'll add, what, 4 cycles extra overhead for non-clipped samples?
01:56:55 Join Bam2550 [0] (
01:59:44jhMikeSnot much I'd think. we want to clamp to the 32-bit range right? or something else?
02:01:15preglowto the 32 bit range, yeah
02:01:21jhMikeSthe compare and branch takes 4 cycles?
02:01:37jhMikeSbut what about when you use the history later?
02:01:41preglowcompare takes two, branch takes 1 + branch overhead
02:01:54preglowhistory has to be clipped
02:02:18preglowso it's probably closer to 5-6 cycles extra per non-clipped sample
02:02:22preglowabout the same for clipped
02:02:43preglowclipped is 6, yeah
02:03:07preglowbut it'll be slower, has to fetch clip limits from memory
02:04:22 Quit Toxicity999 ("Leaving")
02:05:02jhMikeSfrom memory?
02:05:08 Quit PaulJam (".")
02:05:51preglowwell, yeah, we don't have enough regs to store them there
02:05:57pregloweq_filter is really, really tight on regs for arm
02:06:26jhMikeSIt should only need to fetch if clipping is required which shouldn't be often I'd hope
02:06:36preglowyeah, sure, was what i meant
02:06:57preglowi'm more concerned that so many cycles are wasted for non-clipped samples
02:07:05preglowbut anyway, it's arm, a single smlal can easily take 4-5 cycles
02:07:16preglowso i guess this isn't anything
02:07:18 Quit J3TC- (".UPP.")
02:07:31preglowjhMikeS: feel free to stuff this shit in eq_arm.S if you get it working, just don't enable it quite yet
02:07:39preglowi need to go sleep now
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02:10:07 Join Toxicity999 [0] (
02:10:09bluehazei have a 4G ipod, and only a firewire cable. Is it possible to mount the Fat32 filesystem with it?
02:12:58*bluehaze kicks himself for giving away his usb cable
02:14:05jhMikeSXP here mounts FAT-32 on my 3G through a firewire card
02:14:46bluehazei'm on OSX
02:15:30jhMikeSWell, I'm saying it's possible. I don't know if it's supported everywhere.
02:17:00 Quit cooz ()
02:18:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:20:40 Join J3TC- [0] (
02:27:48safetydanbluehaze, firewire is just the transport, it should have no impact on the os reading the file system
02:28:49bluehazeok. i was worried i'd run dd, and then wouldn't be able to mount the file system once it was done
02:30:25 Quit Bam2550 ()
02:35:16 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
02:35:40roolkuJdGordon: okay, I have added the patch to FS #8008 - seems to work fine in sim, but haven't tested on target and need to sleep now. Feel free to commit if you are happy with it, otherwise I'll do it in the mmorning
02:36:14 Join z35 [0] (
02:36:53JdGordonis that to allow multple dynamic tags in a search?
02:37:41roolkuyes, amongst other things mentioned
02:38:14roolkugood night
02:38:22 Quit roolku ()
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02:42:31 Part toffe82
02:43:22lostlogicbagh, where's Nico_P... I don't understand the mechanism that releases old tracks (which _appears_ to be the problem with audio stopping for no good reason)
02:44:09 Quit bluehaze ("thanks!")
02:45:33 Join lukaswayne9 [0] (
02:49:41J3TC-Is there any chance that jpg/png album art from tag will be supported or will it just be similar with the current album art patch now?
02:49:51JdGordonthere is always a chance
02:50:17J3TC-True but how likely is that chance ;x
02:57:27 Quit barrywardell ()
02:58:49DogBoymore likely if you wrote the code J3TC-
02:59:50J3TC-Lol, nah...I'm not that great with coding.
03:00:04DogBoyless likely then
03:00:24J3TC-Sadly, my major doesn't go much into detail with hardware programming :3
03:03:30 Join RoC_MasterMind [0] (
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03:04:57safetydanJ3TC-, all programming involves hardware at some point. Rockbox is just C and the majority of it isn't hardware specific.
03:05:43 Quit HellDragon (Client Quit)
03:06:16goldydoes anybody know if rockbox works on ashroti mp3-mp4 players (ipod nano copies)???
03:06:19 Join HellDragon [0] (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon)
03:06:36safetydangoldy, what's supported is listed on the front page. If it's not there, then no.
03:06:48goldyno probs, thanks
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03:13:48 Part JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
03:14:14 Join Llorean [0] (
03:16:22lostlogicNico_P: (for when you return, if you read logs) I think that any bufopen or bufalloc should take an argument of a callback to say to whomever buffered this item that it is being freed and that if the caller needs the resource again they need to rebuffer it.
03:17:16lostlogicNico_P: I'm trying to get a logfdump of it happening on target but I _think_ that what's happening when playback stops is that the buffer_low_callback is somehow not being treated when the buffer is low but fully allocated.
03:18:27 Join webguest82 [0] (i=4ca81f01@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:18:34webguest82ppl help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03:20:32Lloreanwebguest82: It helps a lot if you read the channel guidelines, people are more likely to help someone who's willing to take a few seconds to do things right.
03:20:42karashatawebguest82: first of all, you might get a little more response if you use proper english and don't abuse the !, second of all, no one can help you unless you tell us what your problem is
03:20:48karashataand what Llorean said
03:24:00 Join psycho_maniac [0] (
03:24:37webguest82uhm im a newb. i have rockbox and ipod linux on my ipod. evrything was fine until i used ipod wizard. i actually used ipod wizard before i put the rockbox and ipod linux on there. but anyways i downloaded a theme from the ipod and uploaded it to my ipod using the wizard. once i ejected it it rebooted like it should have but the pics and evrything wasnt there. so i used ipod wizard again to load my
03:25:40LloreanWell, 1) Messages too long get cut off, and 2) This is #Rockbox, we don't provide support for iPod Wizard
03:26:44webguest82Darnit. ok. but if i use the itunes restore, can i still put rockbox back onto my ipod?
03:27:02 Join Isolinear [0] (
03:27:20LloreanIf your iPod is working well enough to boot the original firmware fine, you should always be able to install Rockbox from that state
03:28:02webguest82Yes! Thank you Llorean im going to do it right now.
03:28:46webguest82oh but it says its a ipod software update. thats still ok? sorry for all these questions.
03:29:51LloreanAs I said, as long as the iPod can boot the Apple OS, you should then be able to go from there to Rockbox. :)
03:31:29 Quit JdGordon|DS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:31:32webguest82ok thank you
03:33:01 Join Calcipher [0] (
03:40:32webguest82its working...i love you Llorean. ^_^ thanks again.
03:40:55lostlogicanother convert to the religion of Llorean
03:41:08*karashata chuckles a little
03:41:37 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
03:46:41 Join Roan [0] (
03:47:09karashatahmm, I'm getting some issues playing back a FLAC file...
03:47:44karashatait's stopping playback quite frequently and the only way to get it to continue is to fully stop it and resume playback again
03:47:58 Part Roan
03:51:33karashataand apparently that's not even working very well
03:52:50lostlogickarashata: interesting, is the file larger than the buffer?
03:53:19karashataI don't know, it could be
03:53:25karashatalemme check a second
03:54:18karashatathere isn't a way to check file sizes in RB is there?
03:54:27psycho_maniacfile size?
03:54:41Lloreankarashata: Click and hold the select button on a file, and choose Properties I believe
03:54:47psycho_maniaci think. go to the song hold select and click proprities.
03:55:12karashataahh, from the file browser, okay
03:55:22karashatanothing in the WPS context menu showed it
03:55:33psycho_maniacnope. wish it did though. :)
03:55:34karashatathe file's 17 MB
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03:55:45karashatawhat's the buffer size?
03:55:59Llorean29 or so
03:56:08LloreanUnless you're on an X5, M5, or Archos.
03:56:18karashatanope, H10 20 GB
03:57:35lostlogickarashata: ahhh, that actually explains the bug I'm seeing too. I thought that it was a problem with the allocated buffer space being full and therefor not being able to fill, but it's actually a problem that if the compressed filebuffer ever runs low enough that the codec can't satisfy a request then it stops.
03:57:48lostlogicNico_P: new theory above.
03:58:14karashatathat's not good
03:58:43lostlogickarashata: normally it's not a problem because the buffer should start filling at the watermark, not when the codec is actually out of data to chew on
03:58:51karashatathe file's playing back after shutting the player down and rebooting
03:58:54lostlogickarashata: but on flacs or occasionally when it starts a buffer fill run it will
03:58:55Lloreanlostlogic: Ah, yeah high bitrate flacs used to starve the compressed buffer long enough for the PCM buffer to empty even pre-MOB
03:58:58LloreanThough playback wouldn't stop
03:59:05lostlogicLlorean: yeah.
03:59:43LloreanAs a temporary solution, the anti-skip buffer can be increased a little bit.
03:59:56LloreanThough ideally one shouldn't have to adjust that based on the bitrate of their files.
04:00:03lostlogicI wonder if I can decrease it and ensure that I trigger this bug more frequently
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04:00:19lostlogicLlorean: yeah, it should be (IMO) based on the bitrate of the playing file
04:00:21*karashata keeps it at 5 seconds normally, or whatever the lowest setting is
04:00:26Lloreanlostlogic: Absolutely agree.
04:00:50LloreanIf I recall, amiconn wants the anti-skip buffer banished anyway, and I think I agree with him. It really *shouldn't* be necessary if everything is working right.
04:01:00*karashata agrees
04:01:28*psycho_maniac also agrees
04:01:49karashatathe files are playing fine now, nicely
04:01:55lostlogicLlorean: I disagree −− it still applies that if you are shaking the player it won't be able to buffer during the shaking and that buffer is roughly how long it can be shaken for continuously during a buffer fill attempt without skipping
04:02:05lostlogickarashata: did you increase the buffer?
04:02:16lostlogic*frownie face*
04:02:27karashatait just seems to be working now
04:02:57Lloreanlostlogic: Wouldn't conditions where shaking the player is bad enough to actually slow buffering to a rate slower than playback be actually pretty harmful to the drive anyway?
04:03:03karashatathough, I finally got to see that small issue of the next track info showing up if it's playing the last track in the buffer
04:03:31lostlogicLlorean: not really no −− you can cause the heads to get more crc failures just from being active with the player in a jacket pocket (trust me on this ;))
04:03:34LloreanAnyway, at the very least, anti-skip should have a "0" option, and never be necessary under "player sitting on a table in a tectonically stable region"
04:03:34karashata..and as soon as I turn the backlight on, I discover that it refilled the buffer and I got my next track info
04:03:41karashatabut now the music stopped again
04:04:11lostlogicLlorean: yes, a zero setting and then the buffering API just having an internal watermark to buffer from that allows for drive spin up would be nice.
04:05:15Lloreanlostlogic: Isn't the PCM buffer already something like 3 seconds of audio?
04:05:39LloreanHow long do the spinups take?
04:05:53*Llorean is really a little uncertain what the PCM buffer is for right now.
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04:06:21LloreanWe have the PC buffer, the low watermark for the compressed buffer, AND the anti-skip "buffer" and I'm a little unsure the unique jobs of each.
04:06:47*karashata skips out of the FLAC files for now
04:07:12lostlogicLlorean: the pcmbuffer holds roughly 1-3 seconds of audio, full spin up time can be up-to 2 seconds and it's never good to starve the pcm buffer, it's there for a reason (to allow for decreased decoding speed during any kind of UI operations)
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04:11:45lostlogicso short versions: PCM buffer is to allow for CPU slowness (for any reason, but mostly caused by disk activity or UI activity). There are two watermarks on the compressed buffer, the low watermark is the same as the anti-skip buffer and is dual purpose, it is to allow for jostling during buffer fill and also for disk spin time. The other (only on high mem targets) is a high watermark which is the level below which the buffering code con
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04:16:15safetydanlostlogic, your message cut out at "buffering code con..."
04:16:38lostlogicsiders it worthwhile to do some buffering if the disk happens to be spun up for some other reason.
04:17:29lostlogicweird, irssi is supposed to auto-split 'em if they're going to be too long.
04:17:50Lloreanlostlogic: Shouldn't the buffering code consider it worthwhile to top off the buffer *any* time the disk is spun up just about?
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04:19:19lostlogicLlorean: not sure the rationale there, just reading the code ;)
04:20:17ramon8how do i use the dict?
04:20:27LloreanAs far as my brain goes, if you need to spend 45 seconds buffering total, and can get it with 7 spinups by piggybacking on user initiated ones, or 12 spinups if you ignore a few of them if the buffer isn't low enough, the 7 spinups is better even if one of them only buffers 3mb.
04:21:13LloreanBasically, "you'll always have the same net buffering time for X amount of data, so minimize the spinups if you can"
04:22:22lostlogicLlorean: yeah, I see where you're coming from, but I'm guessing someone had a good reason for not buffering anytime the disk is spinning and the buffering thread happens to wake up
04:22:45Lloreanlostlogic: I'd assume so too, I'm just really curious what it is. :)
04:23:38LloreanThere's always the off chance that it's just a holdover from a point when the buffering code couldn't (or didn't choose to) know about other disk spinups, or similar.
04:25:03lostlogicLlorean: more likely (as I look) it was added when before the buffering code would only buffer when it was low, I wonder if we can dig out of SVN when it was added.
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04:25:44LloreanThat's essentially what I meant. "Only refill when low, as we don't know what the disk is doing at any time so we just do it when we *know* we need to"
04:26:06LloreanBut I rather like the idea of my buffer topping itself off when I launch a plugin or some such
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04:26:43lostlogicit will if the buffer is < 75% full at the time ;)
04:27:23LloreanAh, but at my audiobook bitrates that could be something like half an hour of audio.
04:27:56LloreanStill, if the high watermark is around 75% it's not so bad.
04:28:01LloreanStill, seems a somewhat arbitrary location.
04:28:20lostlogicyay magic numbers!
04:29:33LloreanI mean, I could understand not doing it in a situation where the seek for the file would take more than the read/buffer because of how little is needed, I suppose...
04:29:41LloreanBut that seems like it'd be a much, much, much smaller number
04:29:58lostlogicLlorean: yeah, specially with a 30m buffer
04:35:49lostlogicLlorean: the other 'cost' to buffering early is that it does invalidate the just-played tracks more frequently making back skipping more often require a spin
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04:36:58Lloreanlostlogic: I would guess most triggered spinups during playback are either more tracks added (assuming that even triggers one, I'm not sure it'd need to with dircache), or launching a plugin.
04:37:04LloreanAnd with plugins at least, back skipping is unlikely
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04:37:23a11313anyone know if a podzilla legacy binary can replace a rockbox binary on a device other than ipod?
04:37:47Lloreanlostlogic: Even then, the "cost" increases after the 75% mark is reached, rather than decreases. :)
04:38:14safetydana11313, what do you mean replace? podzilla is iPod specific AFAIK
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04:38:50Lloreana11313: Not to mention it's not our software.
04:38:59scorchea11313: rockbox is quite different from IPL
04:39:15a11313safetydan granted the binary needs to be changed for input buttons, would it be able to load the binary if it has linux on it?
04:39:38scorchea11313: rockbox is quite different from IPL
04:40:01lostlogicLlorean: not exactly, the cost in this case is the same no matter how empty or full the buffer is −− it's the loss of the ability to skip back to the last played track w/o buffering and that's the only track that matters that's going to be clobbered
04:40:13safetydana11313, what are you trying to do?
04:40:15scorchewhat would make you think it could work?
04:40:51a11313just looking into a mp3 player besides ipods that can have linux on it, preparing for when the flash chips on my nano croak
04:41:09Calcipherany breaking news on the rb front?
04:41:16scorchewell, that is offtopic for this channel
04:41:17a11313chances are I can look at the source of rockbox and add my applications to it
04:41:24scorcherockbox isnt linux
04:41:27safetydana11313, I'm not aware of any other Linux ports to MP3 players. Besides, this channel is about Rockbox not Linux.
04:41:39a11313my apologies
04:41:44Lloreanlostlogic: If the last file is 7mb long, but the previous buffer only held 6mb, will the newest one only have 1mb of it, or will it keep the previous 6mb around after refilling?
04:42:01a11313I was under the the impression that rockbox ran on linux though
04:42:09scorcheit doesnt :)
04:43:18CalcipherI believe the mrobe 500 has a linux port, but like you guys said thats off topic, and hey theres also google, thats how I found that
04:43:18a11313okay, so I can't add homebrew games to the sansa e200 with rockbox?
04:43:38scorchesure you just need to port them to rockbox
04:43:54scorcheassuming you are talking about ones that arent included with rockbox
04:43:56a11313okay, that's prettymuch what my question was, sorry if it went a little offtopic
04:45:21lostlogicLlorean: if you buffer during a track, that track will be truncated up-to it's playing point
04:46:32Lloreanlostlogic: Alright then, I maintain my statement that "if only a small amount of data needs to be buffered, you probably don't yet have a 'last track' on buffer to lose" :-P
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04:46:39LloreanJust seek-back within the current one.
04:47:48a11313well as long as I have a plan b for an open source media player, may be back sometime soon. cheers :P
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04:47:55*safetydan wonders with we need big blinking red letters on the frontpage that say "Rockbox is not Linux"
04:48:11LloreanClearly we need a recursive acronym.
04:48:39safetydanThough if we started doing that we'd end up with a lot of blinking messages, e.g. "Rockbox is not Linux", "Rockbox will not run on the iPod Classic", etc.
04:48:59scorchei will never understand all those who think you can ever just drop something on a different device and have it *just work*
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04:49:15scorcheabout time!
04:49:31LloreanLike those people who wanted to know which file from an N64 emulator they needed to put in the rocks folder to have it run?
04:49:58scorchethere are many different types of those people, but they all have that underlying theory
04:50:17*scorche boggles
04:50:27lostlogicCan I run rockbox on my laptop????
04:50:33lostlogicWhen will rockbox have wifi support???
04:50:36lostlogicDoes it make pizza/??
04:50:37psycho_maniacyou mean i cant run my exe files on rockbox? dangit ;)
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05:01:12JdGordonLlorean: the better one was the guy who though because there was an arm version of firefox it would work on rockbox
05:03:14LloreanThat was quite impressive, yes. :)
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05:23:27lostlogicNico_P: For your reference, <−− a logf of playback and buffering leading up to a stuck buffer
05:23:38lostlogic(I really hope that he will find all of these messages that I've left him in the logs)
05:23:52webguest82Helllo. Im Back. Installed Everything! yay!
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06:23:55lostlogicdo we support id3v2 on flac?
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06:25:18LloreanWe only support vorbis comments, I believe
06:25:50Lloreanafaik, we only support "native" tags for most formats, with ID3 (both v1 and v2) considered 'native' for MP3.
06:26:47lostlogicI'm about to start re-ripping all of my music to flac so I can throw away my CDs (or at least not worry about them)
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06:27:07LloreanVorbis comments are more flexible than ID3 anyway, I think.
06:27:34lostlogicyeah, they're just a bit harder to get grip to write
06:27:45LloreanAh, yes, grip
06:28:08lostlogicalso, flac is very fast to decode, even from −−best right?
06:28:29LloreanOn coldfire, I believe it's a 0% boost ratio no matter which compression level you use.
06:36:49lostlogicwow, encoding is very fast too... barely takes one core to keep up with ripping.
06:37:00lostlogicogg encoding takes both cores to keep up
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06:48:37cabose61088i was wanting to know if there is any way possible that there is a couple hacks for the ipod nano 2g
06:49:39Mouser_XWell, maybe if you aim well enough, you could get a couple of hacks in with an axe. However, the iPod nano is pretty small. You'd have to be pretty precise.
06:49:56Mouser_XOther than that, I'm really not sure what you mean...
06:49:56Lloreancabose61088: The front page of the site says, fairly clearly, that the Nano 2G is not supported.
06:50:29cabose61088i know that rockbox doesnt support it i was just wondering if there was any out there any where
06:50:51cabose61088and to also ask what language rockbox is written in
06:50:55karashatayou're in the wrong channel to ask about that, really
06:50:58LloreanC and assembly
06:51:15*karashata needs to type faster...
06:53:51cabose61088where do i find the source code for it since its open source
06:54:16cabose61088im in college for computer programming so i wanted to take a look at it to see if i understand any of it
06:55:51Mouser_XCheck the wiki: SimpleGuidetoCompiling (something like that)
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07:21:03amiconnLlorean: I do *not* want the anti-skip buffer banished. I just want it to work properly on all targets, with the lowest setting being 0.
07:21:28amiconnRight now this is only true for hwcodec
07:23:53amiconnThe anti-skip buffer isn't meant for working around rockbox bugs wrt low watermark calculation, but for using the (hdd based) dap in a shaky environment, where the hdd might take longer for reading data
07:27:07Lloreanamiconn: Ah, I thought I remembered you saying it was "unnecessary" but I could've misremembered.
07:27:49amiconnIt is unnecessary on any flash based target
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07:42:41amiconnJdGordon: around?
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07:52:37JdGordonamiconn: hey
07:56:10JdGordonLlorean: time to delete the archived threads forum?
07:56:29JdGordonI cant imagine there being any useful threads in there still
07:58:10amiconnJdGordon: There is a fundamental problem with the read-only lists (e.g. the info screens in debug you converted to lists) on targets with small displays (Player, other archoses when selecting a large font)
07:58:41amiconnThe read-only lists don't have any scrolling lines. That makes e.g. the disk info screen completely useless on the player
07:58:56amiconnYou can see what values it reads, but never the actual values...
07:59:14JdGordonwell... 2 options...
07:59:16amiconnOnly noticed it now because the debug menu is rarely needed these days on archos
07:59:22JdGordoneither we enable scrolling on all lines
07:59:31JdGordonor we enable the selection line so it can scroll
08:00:04amiconnI don't really like either option, at least on player
08:00:11JdGordonor maybe we force the cursor instead of the line so its not so in-your-face?
08:00:45amiconnOtherwise I'd think all lines should scroll in read-only lists
08:00:59JdGordonall lines scrolling is difficult to read imho
08:01:13JdGordonbut yeah, there may not be a better way to do it
08:01:38amiconnOn Player, the old layout was rather nice, with the parameter currently displayed shown at the top line, in brackets, and the bottom line showing the actual contents/value, scrolling when longer than that line
08:02:12amiconnHmm, we do have two-line info lists, don't we?
08:02:45JdGordonyeah, the partitions screen is 2 line
08:02:49amiconnHmm, that probably wouldn't be that nice for other targets
08:03:30JdGordonI can see how having it split over 2 lines would be much better on player, but wouldnt work so well on larger displays
08:04:05amiconnAnd the ID3 viewer has kinda the same problem (it is currently 2-line iirc)
08:05:10JdGordonviewports would be nice here... have each line split in 2, so the "data" bit scrolls but the "title" doesnt
08:05:26amiconnWe should have a dedicated info list thingy, which would take the parameter names and values as separate items, and then either switch dynamically based on font, or the two-line layout selected permanently (player)
08:06:08amiconnYes, viewports would even improve that, with all values in a separate colum for larger displays
08:07:55amiconn(larger displays and/or small fonts, of course)
08:08:03JdGordonwell.. a info list thingy widget could be added to the list semi easily i tihnk
08:08:21amiconnAnd yes, the id3 viewer is 2-line, and it shows the selector...
08:08:23JdGordonbut im not sure how much better it would look than the current 2 line view
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08:10:53amiconnHmm, that needs more thinking...
08:12:02JdGordonit may be possible to keep the selection correclty without showing the selection
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08:15:06JdGordonwhere the heck is the id3 info screen code?
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08:45:20linuxstbamiconn: Just read your request from last night looking for a 5g tester. I can't do it immediately, but what do you need?
08:46:00amiconnA series of experiments with bcm commands, and with the method of writing data into its internal memory
08:46:19amiconnThat *might* be different for G5s with hw_rev < 0xb0010
08:46:35linuxstbWhich OF did you look at, the 5.5g?
08:46:42amiconnBut I don't have much time now either. Will you be around tonight?
08:46:51linuxstbYes, I should be.
08:46:52amiconnOr rather, still the rom
08:47:22amiconnI want to get a better understanding of how the bcm works
08:47:54amiconnWith some magic it will be possible to eliminate the 14 ms wait while still using just the bcm rom firmware
08:48:18linuxstbBut is that 14ms wait a problem in practice? Does Rockbox attempt to update the screen that frequently?
08:48:47amiconnYes, when the updates are small
08:48:52amiconnOn a different matter - did you already look into replacing the range decoder in libdemac?
08:49:14linuxstbI started looking, but didn't get very far. It's still a mystery to me...
08:49:35linuxstbI couldn't immediately see much in common between the existing range coder and the one in ffmpeg.
08:49:45linuxstbBut I haven't given up.
08:49:46amiconnI am doing a quick test of entropy-only decoding on PP - and the entropy decoder is around 80% of the total decoding time on PP5002...
08:50:26linuxstbBut looking at the code, it's not surprising - it does a lot per sample.
08:50:37amiconnThat means the predictor + decorrelation is just 20%
08:51:05amiconnAnd speeding up the entropy decoder is *the* key to getting ape realtime on PP
08:51:23linuxstbI don't think it's working in IRAM either...
08:51:24amiconn(or *usable*, as it already is barely realtime for -c1000 on PP502x)
08:52:16amiconnFor PP5002 it also pays of to put code into iram
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08:55:12amiconnOh, and btw, asm'ising the mono predictor should help a bit too, as it is sometimes used in stereo files iiuc
08:56:10linuxstbThat's true.
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08:56:58amiconnOn PP5002, the entropy decoding is ~77% of the total decoding time
08:57:16amiconn(those figures are without filtering, i.e. -c1000)
08:57:44linuxstbDo you mean PP5022? You just said PP5002 was 80%.
08:57:44amiconnAnd on coldire, it's ~75%
08:57:55amiconnEh, I meant 5020
08:57:59amiconn(tested on H10)
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09:12:48amiconnlinuxstb: On PP5002, even just running the entropy decoder isn't realtime: 80% on average (only minor differences between -c levels). On PP5020 it's 148% on average
09:16:07linuxstbLet's hope we can find some magic...
09:16:38amiconnThe 80% is due to the cache latency with code running from dram
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09:16:58amiconnPutting the time critical routines into iram for PP5002 should fix that
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09:17:18amiconnBut even then we need a faster entropy for everything PP...
09:17:25amiconn*entropy decoder
09:19:40preglowpft, you and your ape
09:20:23linuxstbpreglow: It's a challenge...
09:22:00preglowso is faad :P
09:23:36amiconnbah, aac
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09:24:53linuxstbpreglow: BTW, the Gigabeat S is armv6...
09:25:39linuxstb(as if a vector FPU and 500+MHz wasn't enough)
09:25:40preglowamiconn: you're working on ape, you don't get to diss aac :P
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09:32:10preglowaac is a pretty decent codec anyway
09:32:54preglowlinuxstb: having that gigabeat s cpu kinda makes the entire optimizing deal somewhat demotivating...
09:33:40linuxstbYes, it's hard to think of tasks it will struggle with...
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09:42:03markunpreglow: the runtime with the OF is pretty bad, I'm sure that could be a motivation for some.
09:42:26preglowhow bad?
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09:46:16 Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
09:48:59homielowe Around 12 hours for audio
09:49:54 Quit JdGordon|DS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:51:07linuxstbWell, it's running Windows....
09:51:40linuxstbI would hope just a simple port of Rockbox with no specific optimisations would beat that.
09:52:40B4gderI guess it does
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09:58:24 Join ditguy [0] (i=c27f0814@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
09:59:25ditguyHello. Is there a wiki page or some other resources explaining what the dithering in RB is for and when it should be used?
10:01:09ditguyAh, the manual has something about it but what would a "normal person" use?
10:01:42ditguyAnd what impact does it have on cpu usage (and hence battery life)?
10:03:44safetydanditguy, it will have some impact on CPU usage. All DSP effects do. So yes your battery life will be affected. Normal people probably won't notice any difference in sound quality with dither on.
10:04:44pondlifeDoes anyone (apart from me) wish to see the Track Properties option in the browser context menus?
10:05:18preglowditguy: normal people wouldn't need it
10:05:26pondlifeI'd think that's a valid UI option whenever you have a particular track selected, not sure how easy it would be to implement though.
10:05:54linuxstbpondlife: What about combining it with the id3 info screen?
10:06:09pondlifeAh, I thought that was the same thing
10:06:28linuxstbI thought by "track properties" you mean the file properties plugin.
10:06:31pondlifeI'm talking about the screen displaying tags - under Show Track Info
10:06:43preglowditguy: that thread has some more info, plus an exaggerated sound sample
10:06:44pondlifeNope, the built-in track info
10:07:12linuxstbpondlife: OK, I'm confused, I was thinking you wanted file properties in the WPS, but you want the id3 info in the file/db browser...
10:08:01pondlifeYes. The same ID3 info as is currently in the WPS context menu, to be in the browser menu (albeit only when a supported file type is selected?)
10:08:26linuxstbWhat about adding that as an option in the file properties plugin?
10:09:29pondlifeThe properties plugin isn't in the context menu either, is it?
10:09:57JdGordonit is
10:09:57linuxstbIt is.
10:09:59pondlifeCurrently, I only get Playlist in my context menu
10:10:08JdGordonyou in db browser?
10:10:16JdGordonthere you go then :)
10:10:24pondlifeWhy does it matter?
10:10:34JdGordoni tinhk its because the db doesnt work with filenames easily or something
10:10:46pondlifeEach entry must resolve to a file...
10:11:00JdGordonwell yeah... but...
10:11:22linuxstbAdding the file-based options to the db browser would seem to make sense...
10:11:23pondlifeI can understand suppressing file operations (Rename/Delete)
10:11:43linuxstb(apart from those...)
10:11:48JdGordonI disagree... I tinhk properties shouldnt be in the db browser
10:11:49pondlifeCut + paste
10:11:56JdGordonbut by all means, add id3 to both browsers
10:12:31pondlifeWhy not Playlist Catalog, Properties and Add to shortcuts?
10:12:42pondlifeI don't know what PC and ATS do..
10:12:50*pondlife overuses TLAs
10:13:09JdGordonshortcuts wouldnt work as expected i tinhk...
10:13:21JdGordonwont it goto the filebrowser instead of the db browser?
10:13:26pondlifeNope, sounds very file systemy
10:13:48*linuxstb wonders why the file properties plugin displays info on a single line (key: value), but the id3 info screen uses double-lines.
10:13:51pondlifeI never realised we have separate file and an ID3 properties pages
10:14:23pondlifeI only ever used the nice 2-line ID3 one
10:14:39JdGordonlinuxstb: amiconn and i had a bit of a chat about doing both of those properly.. possibly modifying the list widget to be used as a info list and reformat depending on the screen space
10:14:59*JdGordon doesnt really like the 2 line display
10:15:29*JdGordon also plans to do that properly after tomorows exam
10:15:44pondlifeI prefer it to the single one, clearer to read
10:16:44pondlifeMaybe my font is larger than most though
10:17:37linuxstbI don't normally suggest this, but would an option make more sense than trying to guess what looks better automatically?
10:18:20pondlifeThis could all be included in the properties plugin, right?
10:18:43pondlifeSo no bloat in the core, in fact we could perhaps remove the ID3 viewer from the core...
10:18:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:18:54pondlifeOr is the plugin loading spinup a problem.
10:18:55JdGordonthe quick play i had before was modifieng the simplelist widget to handle it, so yeah shouldnt be a problem adding it to plugins
10:19:17pondlifeI don't really like the plugin loading delay.
10:19:54 Quit TMM (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:20:09*linuxstb wonders if some functionality could be built into the core, or as plugins, depending on RAM size
10:20:30*JdGordon was thinking the same
10:20:37JdGordondpesnt sound very KISS though
10:21:12pondlifeBetter than keeping the last plugin loaded or whatever was suggested last time we had this conversation.
10:21:20safetydanlinuxstb, I can't reproduce the gain reset issue you saw with FS #7440 in the sim. The code for the setting is very simple so I've got no clues to go on for fixing it.
10:21:49JdGordonpondlife: ? that sounds like a good way of stopping your complaint about load times
10:21:54JdGordonif you keep runing the same plugin
10:22:06pondlifeWell, yes. But far from KISS
10:22:24JdGordonnot at all
10:22:30pondlifeIs the plugin buffer used for anything else?
10:22:35linuxstbsafetydan: I had a quick look at the wm*.c file, and it seems it wasn't remembering the gains when setting them.
10:22:43pondlifei.e. is it wasted space when not running a plugin?
10:25:35safetydanlinuxstb, hrm... the "extern current_bass" is supposed to take care of that...
10:25:52*preglow ponders attempting to make speex encoding work...
10:26:22JdGordonpondlife: the plugin buffer is "wasted" unless something else grabs it (like the playlist viewer).. but its easy to manage that so we know if it was stolen or not
10:26:35*JdGordon actually isnt 100% sure we dont do that
10:26:47pondlifeOK, so there's no need to reload the last plugin from disk (assuming no steal)
10:27:09ditguypreglow: thanks for the link! It has a really nice explanation of what dithering is!
10:27:15linuxstbsafetydan: Why is that extern?
10:27:44safetydanlinuxstb, the actual value is in firmware/sound.c
10:27:44ditguyAnd as for the context menu in the DB browser: I'd like if it contained 'properties' and 'add to favorites'
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10:28:47pondlifeAdd to favorites? Is that Playlist Catalog?
10:29:00linuxstbpondlife: IIUC, if the plugin contains initialised data, it needs to be reloaded.
10:29:22pondlifeAh, yes. That's an assumption many plugins make, I expect
10:29:47linuxstbBut given how small most of the plugins are, maybe a plugin cache...
10:30:08ditguypondlife: no, it's the shortcuts plugin
10:30:18ditguypondlife: the 'add' part of it
10:31:18preglowseems mp3_encoder is broken on iriver
10:35:04 Quit rep|icant_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:35:18safetydanpreglow, there was a flyspray issue raised at some point
10:35:39preglowwell, that's how i found out, so yeah
10:35:44preglowthought i'd investiagte
10:35:52preglowit's not any coldfire specific code's fault
10:36:02 Quit TotallyInfected ()
10:36:14linuxstbsafetydan: I'll try and debug your patch on my 5g at some point.
10:37:04safetydanlinuxstb, cheers. I'm sure it's something simple, but it's hard without the hardware.
10:38:00*JdGordon thinks all plugins should do a reset in plugin_entry so we can save loading
10:39:29pondlifeAside from properties, are there many plugins that are likely to be unloaded then reloaded?
10:39:31JdGordonanyone know if any of the plugin libs stuff has static variables which would need reseting?
10:40:47JdGordonproperties looks like it has 1 variable which would need resetting...
10:42:38ditguyJdGordon: I think many plugins have static vars which would need resetting. Plugings are written in a non reentrant way.
10:43:08JdGordonyes, but there isnt a reason why they couldnt be reset on load...
10:43:14*linuxstb wonders how complex it would be to cache the .rock at the end of the plugin buffer, given the fact most plugins are very small and don't call plugin_get_buffer()
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10:44:09JdGordonI was tihnking having an extra return value from the plugin which meant it was safe to reload the plugin from ram
10:44:16JdGordonI tihnk that would be less complicated
10:44:36linuxstbBut that would build complication into any plugin that we wanted to use this feature with.
10:44:46linuxstbRather than being automatic.
10:44:46ditguyJdGordon: but how would you do it? That would require rewriting (or adding a reset func) to each plugin since you can't write a general routine for that
10:44:57JdGordonbut as pondlife said.. it would only be used really for properties...
10:45:12pondlifeI was more thinking it wasn't really worthwhile complicating for...
10:45:29JdGordonditguy: we have a plugin entry point already... if a plugin wanted the ability it could add it...
10:45:32pondlifeRather, I'd consider if file properties could be built-in.
10:45:40pondlifei.e. combined with the ID3 info
10:45:54JdGordonna... move id3 out and allow this reloading stuff in...
10:45:58JdGordonfree up some bi space
10:46:18JdGordonit _might_ give us more leeway to move stuff to plugins...
10:46:24preglowmp3_encoder can be used as both a plugin and viewer, why doesn't it show up in the plugin menu?
10:46:26linuxstbpondlife: The file properties plugin probably needs to spin up the disk to read info from the file anyway...
10:46:28markunpreglow: I think they get about 12 hours, -6 hours if you enable "harmonics"
10:46:31pondlifeAs long as the freed space isn't reused for the reload code
10:46:45ditguyI like the idea of linuxstb (keeping the original .rock at the end of the plugin buffer.) If the plugin is small enought we could reuse its binary image. If it's big it will be reloaded. All transparent and requires no plugin rewrites.
10:46:49pondlifelinuxstb: Ah, the ID3 info doesn't of course ...
10:46:58JdGordonpondlife: it doesnt?
10:47:03linuxstbNot for the currently playing track.
10:47:13JdGordonall oter tracks it does though
10:47:34pondlifeYou can't use it for other tracks
10:47:36linuxstbBut that's what started this conversation - currently you can't view id3 info for anything other than the current track.
10:47:43pondlifeThat was my complaint
10:48:16pondlifeNow I see why - so we just need to build ID3 info into the File Properties plugin and make them share UI (and code?).
10:48:28pondlifeThen add it to the DB context menu and I'll be done
10:49:25JdGordonok, the plugins are tiny compared to the pluginbuf size (expect maybe archos?) linuxstb's idea is sounding doable
10:49:59 Quit parafin|sleep ("So long and thanks for all the fish")
10:50:03linuxstbI'm not convinced my idea is good though - is it very common to load the same plugin twice, without also needing to spin the disk (i.e. viewers)
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10:50:31JdGordonwe arnt talking twice immediatly...
10:51:10linuxstbI'm just questioning the need for the feature...
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10:52:03B4gderI'd say we don't need it
10:52:06JdGordonthere is no need really... iits an extra bit of complexity for something which would be nice to have
10:52:07ditguylinuxstb: but keeping the .rock would do no harm
10:52:23B4gderit adds code
10:52:27JdGordonit still potentially saves 1 big disk read
10:52:28ditguyB4gder: he-he, same thinking :-)
10:52:35pondlifeJdGordon: Given that a spinup is needed for the file properties anyway, it's not worth it
10:52:56ditguyProperties and 'add to shortcuts' are good examples
10:53:05*JdGordon only uses flash targets atm so this whole thing is irrelevant anyway :p
10:53:09pondlifeProperties needs a spinup anyway
10:53:17pondlifeadd to shortcuts too, I expect
10:53:29JdGordonyeah shortcuts needs a file
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10:53:41ditguypondlife: but it would be still less disk IO
10:53:56JdGordonisnt open() the really slow part of the access?
10:54:18pondlifeditguy: The spinup cost is the main one by a long shot
10:54:39pondlifeOnce you've had to do that, the i/o is cheap
10:55:24JdGordonactually... what would be nice is if we could use the plugin buffer as a second codec buffer
10:55:26ditguypondlife: ah... I though open() was also expensive (all that fat seeking)
10:56:45pondlifeNot relative to the spinup. And properties will also need to open the file.
10:57:03JdGordonyeah, but 1 open() is betteer than 2
10:57:26ditguyJdGordon: and two e are better than one :-)))
10:57:49linuxstbJdGordon: Maybe you could write a little patch that logs which plugins have been opened, and check your usage pattern after a week...
10:58:28markunlinuxstb: btw, I looked at the "unencrypted" Clix2 firmware again last night and did find some interesting patterns.
10:58:29JdGordon... if the plugin is in ram then call disk_wakeup(), then start the plugin which might speed it up a tiny bit
10:58:45JdGordonlinuxstb: thats easy.... brickmania once in the whole week.. and thats it :p
10:58:48markunlinuxstb: there is 1 256bytes block which can be found throughout the firmware
10:59:31markunI xorred the firmware file with this block, but that didn't do the trick (although there are a lot of 00's now
11:00:44roolkuJdGordon: did you see any problems with my changes?
11:00:58JdGordonnot that i remember :p
11:01:07JdGordoni was a bit asleep when i looked at it this morning
11:01:09daurnimatoryou guys seen ?
11:01:25roolkuokay, I'll go for it then
11:02:19B4gderdaurnimator: haha, crappy stuff...
11:02:34*preglow finds the bug
11:02:43preglowlooks like memcpy is called before rb = api
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11:03:54*linuxstb is curious about this MS lossless codec -
11:03:57pondlifeAnyone out there who uses oggs able to test a patch for me? is a two-liner to get rid of that annoying yellow in ogg_malloc_init().
11:04:39daurnimatorI'd think the sansas would support the 8gb overlords?
11:04:48preglowhave anyone tried encoding mono files with mp3_encoder before?
11:04:58B4gderdaurnimator: I'd guess rockbox does, yes
11:05:37Zagorwill be tricky filling them without rockbox-native usb though...
11:05:52*JdGordon has a micro sdhc usb reader :)
11:05:52B4gdermemory card reader
11:06:06JdGordonso eyah.. buy me a 8gb chip and l test it :D
11:06:08preglowthe result is sped up by a factor of two here...
11:06:10Zagorbut that's cheating :)
11:06:21B4gderbut yeah. it requires that the external reader groks it too
11:07:52daurnimatorJdGordon: do you still use your sansa?
11:08:06JdGordonpondlife: is that patch either it works or doesnt?
11:08:12JdGordondaurnimator: yeah, sitll my main dap
11:08:23pondlifeJdGordon: I think so, but I don't have any oggs
11:08:39JdGordonok, ill try the patch and tell you if something funny happens
11:08:46JdGordondo you know what i shuold look out for?
11:09:04 Quit barrywardell ()
11:09:13pondlifeWith the current codec swapping problems you might need to compare before and after
11:10:10pondlifeI don't think it'll break anything, but there's a very small chance of an overflow (long -> size_t) on 64-bit sims
11:10:41JdGordonand of course by small you mean certain :)
11:10:49JdGordontest on the player or sim?
11:10:57Zagorweirdness. changing the UNCACHED_ADDR define from + to | causes gcc to claim "error: initializer element is not computable at load time"
11:11:06pondlifePlayer is more important, of course
11:11:36Zagorwhy is | any more difficult than + ?
11:11:52JdGordonpondlife: codec failure in the 64bit sim
11:12:11preglowlinuxstb: eyh, since you did test_codec and everything, what about making a transcoder plugins? :>
11:12:18pondlifeJdGordon: Are you sure that's this patch?
11:12:22 Quit ditguy ("CGI:IRC")
11:12:27JdGordonpondlife: nope
11:12:34pondlifeTry without too..
11:12:37JdGordon... checking on the dap
11:12:43pondlifeMaybe I should hunt for an ogg on the web
11:12:57linuxstbpreglow: Sure, I've nothing else to do... ;)
11:13:38preglowbtw, can one do string comparisons with the preprocessor?
11:13:41JdGordonpondlife: dcc?
11:13:56preglow#if STRING_DEFINE != "", for eaxmple
11:15:19linuxstbpreglow: Should be easy to test - add a #warning to see if it tests true or not.
11:15:28preglowit doesn't even compile...
11:16:00 Part pondlife ("Gone")
11:16:19preglowtoken ""/"" is not valid in preprocessor expressions
11:16:30preglowSTRING_DEFINE is "/"
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11:17:47preglowjust found it :)
11:18:00preglowand btw, why doesn't recorded stuff end up in /recordings anymore?
11:18:52PaulJampreglow: you can set the recorcing dir via the contextmenu of folders now
11:18:53linuxstbIt's wherever you set it to be
11:19:12preglowi've never set it to /
11:19:24preglowit's always been /recordings by default, now it's /
11:19:25linuxstbYou've never not set it to /...
11:19:33preglowand REC_BASE_DIR is defined to be "/"
11:20:02preglowstuffing things in the root seems a bit dirty
11:20:09JdGordonpreglow: that changed AGES ago...
11:20:17JdGordondidnt you help test that patch?
11:20:32pixelmait's because you can't "choose" root as recording directory by other means
11:20:48*linuxstb knew there must have been a good reason for it...
11:21:11preglowJdGordon: doubt it
11:21:42preglowmp3_encoder bugs because it doesn't expect REC_BASE_DIR to be /
11:21:49preglowso it lists all files in the root twice
11:22:16JdGordonmp3_encoder should use the setting...
11:22:27preglowplugins have access to settings?
11:22:38JdGordonrb->global_settings-> ...
11:22:39preglowi guess they do
11:23:03linuxstbCouldn't it just create a .mp3 with the same name and in the same place as the .wav?
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11:23:20linuxstbencoding and recording aren't the same in my mind...
11:23:26preglowlinuxstb: it does
11:23:37linuxstbWhat's the problem then?
11:23:37preglowlinuxstb: it's for choosing a wav when called as a plugin
11:23:51linuxstbWhy would it need to be called as a plugin?
11:24:05preglowi have no idea, it's always been like that
11:24:12preglowshall i just gut that code out?
11:24:15linuxstbCan it encode multiple files?
11:24:21preglowi don't think so
11:24:44linuxstbUnless you can think of a reason for it to be different to other viewers, then yes, I would say gut it.
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11:26:44preglowconsider it done
11:28:04preglowit also assumes a max mp3 file name of 80 chars
11:29:06preglowi can't be bothered to fix that, we should just do a transcoding plug
11:29:49pondlifeJdGordon: Can you try a one -line mod for me?
11:30:17pondlifeJdGordon: Change ogg_malloc_init() so the tmp_ptr setting is tmp_ptr = (long) (bufsize + 3) & ~3;
11:30:57preglowthe fact that it encodes my file at double speed i shall also ignore
11:31:59JdGordonpondlife: file, line?
11:32:15pondlifeJdGordon: The routine I patched ;)
11:32:24pondlifeI'll make a new patch if you prefer
11:32:39JdGordonbah, na ill manage
11:33:06pondlifeJust the +3 bit to add
11:33:07 Quit barrywardell ()
11:33:29JdGordonyep, found it
11:33:59JdGordonstill codec failure
11:34:08pondlifeOK, I'll forget it then
11:34:14pondlifeToo much else to do, sorry
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11:43:04preglow we're being watched!!!1
11:43:17IsolinearDang, I use that as a nick sometimes... :(
11:43:33IsolinearIn fact, my windows xp account is called Echelon.. lol
11:50:23linuxstbpreglow: Rather than a general transcoding plugin (with the complication of swapping the codecs), an encoder plugin similar to test_codec might be relatively easy.
11:50:58linuxstbI don't know how the recording codecs work though...
11:51:04preglowme neither
11:51:11preglowbut that encoder plugin would only read wavs, then?
11:51:27preglowsure, leaps and bounds better than what we do now
11:51:40preglowbolting on input codec support can be done later anyway
11:52:00preglowbut this maintaining an encoder plugin and encoder codec which is essentially the same code is silly
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11:53:26*linuxstb spots someone who knows how the recording codecs work...
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11:56:41preglowgod, i love the apple fanboys that can't understand why anyone would want to crack an iphone
11:58:49linuxstbPresumably they're not Rockbox users? ;)
12:01:56preglowpresumably they're twits
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12:18:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:19:21amiconnZagor: '+' means a fixed offset, '|' does not
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12:27:27webguest68can anyone help me?
12:28:01PaulJamthat depends on the problem. just ask
12:28:50linuxstbpreglow: Do you think it's worth spending any time on faad, or should we keep waiting for ffmpeg? I'm thinking it could be simplified, first by stripping out all the unused code (i.e. everything in undefined #ifdefs, plus maybe more), and then seeing if it could be restructured. Seeing how the ffmpeg and helix codecs are structured might help with that.
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12:28:56webguest68ok i just installed rockbox
12:29:04linuxstbOn what?
12:29:05webguest68i restarteed my ipod nano
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12:29:17webguest68and nothing happend
12:29:20webguest68it loaded normaly
12:29:39linuxstbDid you run ipodpatcher? Or install the bootloader via Rockbox Utility?
12:30:07webguest68rockbox ultility
12:30:54linuxstbWhen you did the bootloader installation, did you see a message saying it had worked?
12:31:14webguest68and then it told me to choose a theme
12:31:18webguest68i installed that also
12:31:25linuxstbHow are you restarting your Nano? Are you holding MENU+SELECT together?
12:31:58 Quit safetydan ("Leaving")
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12:32:26webguest68is there another way restarting?
12:32:29linuxstbThen it seems the bootloader installation didn't work. Try it again.
12:32:38webguest68i unsinstall?
12:32:48webguest68im using ipodnano 1gen
12:32:53linuxstbNo, no need to uninstall everything. Just do the bootloader install step again.
12:33:43webguest68i tryed to install it agin
12:33:45linuxstbAnd no, there's no other way to restart an ipod.
12:33:52webguest68using small instal
12:33:57webguest68and i get some http error
12:34:46webguest68oh it says my bootloader is already up to date do i click ok or ignore?
12:35:42 Quit iamben (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:36:57webguest68shouldent it say loading firmware?
12:37:00webguest68on my ipod
12:37:05 Quit midgey ()
12:37:27linuxstbYou should click ignore.
12:37:51webguest68ok its downloading something
12:37:56linuxstbYour ipod won't display any messages, unless there is an error. It will just go directly into Rockbox (assuming the bootloader is installed correctly)
12:38:24webguest68it says installation success
12:38:37webguest68i restart my ipod now?
12:39:09webguest68its restarting
12:39:13webguest68apple logo poped up
12:39:20webguest68same thing....
12:39:47webguest68does rockbox work on nanos?
12:40:16linuxstbYes. If your ipod wasn't supported, Rockbox Utility wouldn't autodetect it.
12:40:25linuxstbAnd the bootloader install would give an error.
12:40:29webguest68ok what should i do
12:41:01webguest68is there suppose to be another theme?
12:41:02linuxstbI don't know... You could try running ipodpatcher instead - instructions and links are in the manual. That's an alternative way to install the bootloader.
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12:41:27preglowlinuxstb: i was planning on finding out, waiting to see merbanan
12:41:37preglowlinuxstb: does it have much unused code, though?
12:41:45preglowlooked to me like it had everything needed and not much more
12:41:54preglowit does deal with a lot of profiles we don't need, though
12:42:19linuxstbThere are a ton of #ifdefs, so I think it could be simplified. It wouldn't change what the compiled codec looks like, just make the source much simpler.
12:42:20webguest68i used ipodpatcher i installed it
12:42:33webguest68ok im going to try restartt
12:42:46webguest68YAYIT WORKED
12:43:39webguest68linux how do i load my old firmware after its on?
12:43:48preglowlinuxstb: ifdefs for what?
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12:45:13PaulJamwebguest68: there should be instructions in the getting started chapter of the manual
12:45:26linuxstbpreglow: The unsupported profiles.
12:45:46webguest68ok thanx
12:45:52linuxstbpreglow: Things that are undefined in common.h
12:46:12webguest68is rockbox suppose to be ugly?
12:46:21webguest68how would i change my background
12:46:25linuxstbwebguest68: Yes. But you can choose your own themes.
12:46:41B4gderyou can choose your own ugliness
12:46:57LinusNwe worked hard to get it that ugly
12:46:58linuxstbAlthough the default ugliness is hard to beat.
12:47:30webguest68uhh ok
12:47:47webguest68what do i do if my progress thing is not responding
12:48:31webguest68can i play gb games on this like iboy?
12:48:52*B4gder whispers rtfm
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12:50:01B4gderyou read the manual already?
12:50:31webguest68i read the quikstart
12:50:35webguest68it says nothing abt gb
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12:50:52B4gderwell I won't say anything about it either ;-)
12:51:04LinusNif the quickstart contained everything, the rest of the manual wouldn't be needed, would it?
12:51:43webguest68ty im going sleep now
12:51:49LinusNsleep tight
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12:52:39pixelmamust have been very important if he wxpected it to be in the quickstart chapter...
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12:53:52linuxstbWe obviously need a "Gaming quickstart" chapter...
12:54:18LinusNreally important
12:54:39pixelma"You can play gameboy roms [...] and by the way, one minor function of rockbox is that it can play music" ;)
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13:05:48mcuelenaerecould someone give me write access on the wiki?
13:06:20mooswhat is your wiki name?
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13:10:17moosmcuelenaere: done.
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13:17:39preglowlinuxstb: about the only thing i can see that currently would make faad a better choice than ffmpeg is that it supports aacplus
13:18:25linuxstbPlus the fact that it works...
13:18:27preglowanyway, i heard that faad now has changed their license again, and now to something more reasonable
13:19:24preglowlinuxstb: yeah, there's that
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13:19:55preglowwhy do buschel's video speedup patches always end up lying around on the tracker? they seem like commit-right-away stuff to me
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13:24:36jay07Hey i was wondering who coded rockbox?
13:24:39preglowseems like faad still has the braindead clause
13:24:43preglowjay07: lots of people did
13:25:15moospreglow: maybe he could have svn access (Buschel)
13:25:17preglowjay07: the CREDITS file containing names of all contributors currently is 350+ names
13:25:19jay07kewl... i want to know why its imposible to install firmware on the Nano Gen 2?
13:25:21preglowmoos: yeah, perhaps
13:25:44preglowjay07: because the hardware is undocumented and the rom is encrypted, apple are trying hard to keep us from running our own code on it
13:26:01jay07EVIL BASTARDS!
13:26:09preglowthis is the case for all their newer ipods
13:26:23preglowthey even glued the chips to the circuit board
13:26:34jay07so i have to go out and source me a old ipod
13:26:37jay07i can do that!
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13:27:31preglowor you could buy something else than an ipod...
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13:33:39linuxstbpreglow: aacplus is realtime on the gigabeat F?
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13:37:49preglowi think so, but dunno, really
13:38:13preglowit should be possible to do realtime on ipods with a really, really optimized decoder
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13:54:33pondlifeThe H300 non-LCD remote has an odd keymapping. The long press on play brings up the pitch screen. On the main unit, this does nothing.
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14:01:44linuxstbHow do you bring up the pitch screen on the main unit?
14:02:12pondlifeBut it's broken after use of the remote
14:02:17pondlifeI'm just logging a bug
14:03:29pondlifeI'd prefer the remote to have long play -> settings to be honest. But consistency would be a good second-best.
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14:18:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:28:24lostlogicNico_P: did you see all the messages and theories I posted about the remaining buffering no-gos?
14:28:39lostlogicI'm about to post another logf, this one from stopping at the beginning of a .sid
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14:37:24karashat2lostlogic: I was just poking about in the Debug menu and I discovered the new buffering thread debug screen
14:37:59karashat2turns out the FLAC files are stopping playback when the "useful" buffer drops down to around 25 MB
14:38:29lostlogicoh, that's weird.
14:38:57karashat2at least, if I'm understanding the slightly abbreviated labels correctly...
14:39:10lostlogicyeah, you are.
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14:39:44karashat2heh, never fails
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14:39:51lostlogicusefl should be how much unplayed data is left on the buffer, I've not had my playback stop when there's any (more than a few k) usefl left
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14:40:46lostlogicthat's weird... 25mb is not < 75% full so it's not when the high callback triggers... wtf.
14:41:15karashat2heh, all my other files, MP3s, NSFs and SPCs play back with no issues
14:42:04PaulJami think the problem where playback stops with a half full buffer only happens for files that are larger than the buffer
14:42:32PaulJami got it with long mp3s too.
14:43:04lostlogicPaulJam: that would make sense −− something gets stuck when it tries to shrink the playing file
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14:43:34karashat2only one or two of my FLAC files are actually bigger than the buffer, most of those are even smaller, so that's not my issue...
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14:43:49PaulJamlostlogic: i posted my observations to fs#8031
14:44:08lostlogickarashat2: it still could be the same issue actually because large files are still much more likely to force a shrink versus an invalidate.
14:46:08lostlogicreally need Nico_P to look at it because I don't have a strong handle on the callbacks between playback and buffering still
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14:47:57ditguyBagder: are you the one who mainly makes the table (or scripts) with the recent SVN changes? Could you please output the release number for each commit?
14:48:22karashatathe only question I have is, why are the next and previous track mapped to the up and down on the scroll-pad for the H10 in the buffer debug screen?
14:48:23Nico_Plostlogic: I saw the logs, yeah
14:48:35Nico_PI'm suspecting the removal of can_add_handle
14:48:54PaulJamditguy: you can see the revision number in the browser stausbar when you hover over the diff link
14:51:18ditguyPaulJam: ah, that's the trick! But the number in a small font size wouldn't do no harm IMHO. E.g. under the date.
14:52:22linuxstbkarashata: Bad use of keymap actions....
14:52:25Nico_Plostlogic: I've been seeing audio dropouts in a situation where I had never seen any beofre
14:52:46Nico_PI'm readding can_add_handle on a test build to see if there's a difference
14:53:02lostlogicNico_P: my issue was happening before that. the cost of can_add_handle's removal is worst case opening one file handle and 10 or 15 instructions.
14:53:23Nico_Plostlogic: have you duplicated its logic elsewhere?
14:54:46pondlifeWas can_add_handle doing it's check on the right thread? i.e. the buffering thread, not the API thread...
14:55:14lostlogicNico_P: hmm, you may be right, I thought i caught everything inside add_handle itself but I may have missed something when there's not even space to finish the current file out.
14:55:24Nico_Ppondlife: it was doing it on the caller's thread
14:55:40pondlifeI thought so... that might not be safe
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14:55:52Nico_Plostlogic: yeah the case where you need to let the current handle finish buffering is vital
14:55:56lostlogicpondlife: that was my thought, which is why I moved its (I thought) inside the mutex
14:56:02Nico_PI'm not having the dropouts anymore btw
14:56:02pondlifeI think we need to keep the logic, but in the buffering thread
14:56:11lostlogicNico_P: you added it back in?
14:56:37Nico_Padd_handle needs an added test
14:56:41lostlogicNico_P: ok, that's the problem with large files but there's still something else in there I think, having to do with callbacks
14:56:51lostlogicNico_P: yeah, I'll catch it since it's my breakage.
14:57:00pondlifeWhich callbacks? unbuffering?
14:57:04Nico_PI can do it, I think I know what to do
14:57:11lostlogicok, cool then
14:57:19Nico_PI have a nice test situation too
14:57:43lostlogicpondlife: yeah −− I think the buffering api needs a per-handle callback to whomever buffered that handle to say that the handle is going to be freed _now_ and to rebuffer it if needed.
14:58:07lostlogicbut I can't think of a good way to do it without a closure and I"m not sure if C has closures
14:58:09Nico_Plostlogic: handles should be freed (closed) only by the caller, the one who opened it
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14:58:25pondlifeNico_P is correct
14:59:00lostlogicthen the buffering api needs a finer grained way of asking the caller to close buffers "I need these buffers closed to stay afload here fellers"
14:59:12Nico_PI thought of having the buffering thread close them and signal it to the caller, but it was hideously complicated and, IMHO, incorrect
14:59:17lostlogicrather than the current buffer_low_callback "free anything you can"
14:59:33pondlifeSo is bufclose not being called in some case?
14:59:47pondlifei.e. is playback hanging onto a buffer handle?
14:59:48lostlogicpondlife: that's what it looks like to me
14:59:58pondlifeWell, that's the bug, no?
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15:00:29lostlogicright, but the root cause would be that the buffering API has no way to say "I'm trying to buffer wha tyou asked for but <THIS> handle is in the way"
15:00:30pondlifeOnce a track has played, the handle should be freed (i.e. available for overwrite)
15:00:47lostlogicpondlife: it's not freed until the buffer goes low and the buffer_low_callback is called
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15:01:35pondlifeFreed in what sense? There's "freed by a caller" (when bufclose() is called) and "overwritten"..
15:02:32pondlifeI like to think of buffering as a specialized disk cache...not sure if that's accurate, but it's where I started.
15:03:32pondlifeThat's why I hoped wouldn't be a problem any more... i.e. while a file's data remains in the buffer, an attempt to read it shouldn't need a rebuffer.
15:04:07preglowhow is this possible, first i get a data abort, then a second later, an undefined instruction
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15:04:44linuxstbDidn't you implement the exception handlers? ;)
15:05:49preglowyeah, and as far as i bloody know, they're final, nothing should happen after those, heh
15:05:54preglowit happens consistently :P
15:06:04Nico_Ppondlife: I agree with you on fs#8029, but it's quite a big change ;)
15:06:18preglowsomething probably goes wrong in the button handler or whatever'
15:06:26pixelmapreglow: saw that too on my c200
15:06:32pondlifeI know, but having the API in place should help immensely.
15:06:38pondlifeI hope ;)
15:06:53pondlifeIt's one for the future, sure.
15:07:43Nico_Plostlogic: I have th fix ready, testing
15:08:09Nico_Pthen I'll fix FS #8049
15:09:06preglowhrm, perhaps i should have the data abort handler write the address it tried to access
15:10:00preglownah, i can't be bothered to write a load/store instruction disassembler right now...
15:10:31preglowbtw, that sounds like a stellar feature, inline disassesmbling at crashes :P
15:11:34JRoTI have a bug
15:11:46JRoThow can i see if it's jet reported?
15:12:21ZagorJRoT: search the tracker
15:13:32JRoTi don't know where to look for
15:13:38JRoTi played music
15:13:46JRoTand suddenly it stopped
15:14:07Nico_PJRoT: should be fixed by my commit from a couple minutes ago
15:14:09JRoTen now it says Undefined instruction at 40001340 (0)
15:14:35n1sJRoT: ipod nano?
15:14:51JRoTsansa e260
15:15:07Nico_PJRoT: try updating
15:15:18JRoTi've got the lastest build
15:15:34Nico_Pif you don't build yourself, wait 5 minutes for the build to complete, then update
15:16:09JRoTis there an upddate every 5 minutes?
15:16:18pondlifeYes ;)
15:16:22pondlifeNo, not really
15:16:24Nico_PJRoT: no, but a new version is built everytime we make a change
15:16:39Nico_PJRoT: so it can be every 5 minutes sometimes
15:16:59JRoTdo need to commit this bug somewhere?
15:17:13Nico_Pif it's still there, maybe (search first)
15:17:22Nico_Pbut I'm hoping it won't be there anymore
15:17:45JRoTk thnx
15:17:50JRoTis it hard to code?
15:18:34Bagderno, rockbox is just an afternoon hack really
15:19:01Nico_PJRoT: it's not too hard to learn
15:19:04*n1s utters about "enough monkeys with enough keyboards and all that" :-)
15:19:18karashataum... this is new...
15:19:34karashatatrying to switch from an NSF file to an MP3 while the player is still buffering
15:19:34Nico_Pa new bug? :p
15:19:39karashataplayback stops
15:19:46scorche|wn1s: well, those that dont write C, just end up writing perl with plenty of regex ;)
15:19:51Nico_Pkarashata: what rev?
15:19:54karashatait switches the track, but playback stops completely
15:19:59JRoTNico_P any idea how to start?
15:20:00karashatamost recent
15:20:05Bagderscorche|w: let's do both! ;-)
15:20:30karashataand trying to stop playback fully stalls the player...
15:20:35JRoTkarashata i think we have the we got the same bug
15:20:45JRoTi skip track
15:20:50JRoTand it crashed
15:21:15scorche|wBagder: way too early in the morning, and i havent had coffee yet!
15:21:16karashatathis is bad
15:21:33karashatareset the player and rebooted it, and the first thing I get is a data abort
15:21:52*Bagder walks away again
15:21:52karashataat 000FE6AC (0)
15:22:14JRoTdo you have a sansa also?
15:22:22karashatano, H10 20GB
15:23:09karashatais a good thing I keep backups...
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15:23:43karashatathis build's no good, data aborts right on boot after playback stalls and a hard reset is done
15:24:04karashataprovided, of course, you want playback to resume right on boot
15:24:24karashatacan try with clean settings and see if it turns out alright
15:25:09karashata...which makes no difference
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15:25:14karashataplayback is toast
15:25:21Nico_Pkarashata: maybe there is a consistent crash on trying to load the song you're trying to resume to
15:25:48karashataI cleared the settings and tried loading from the file browser
15:26:00karashatacrashed on trying to load even there too
15:26:10Nico_Pyeah but what did you try to load?
15:26:35LinusNany mp3 song?
15:26:44karashataany mp3
15:26:55karashataflac files don't crash it, but they don't play back either
15:26:55JRoTmy player also skips the track a little bit at the end with cossfading
15:27:42JRoTAnd now it's crashing again
15:27:45karashatatrying to play back an NSF file causes the player to hang entirely
15:27:46Nico_Pkarashata: do you know what build you were running previously
15:27:55karashatajust a sec
15:27:56JRoTwith nearly the same version
15:29:28JRoTUndefined instructoin at 00061D10 is it this time
15:29:30karashatatrying to stop playback of SPC files causes the player to hang as well
15:30:00karashatathey don't play back, and as long as you don't try to stop them from not playing the player still responds
15:30:24karashatahate to say it but you really killed something important there...
15:31:51JRoTi'm going back to r15294-071025
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15:32:30karashatahmm, gonna try it again, I think it might have been something *I* did and not the build...
15:32:50*Nico_P has r15374 and it's fine
15:33:18JRoTi can only download 15370 according to the site
15:33:20Nico_PJRoT: have you tried r15374?
15:33:38JRoThow do i download it
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15:34:30webguest97hello, I have an Archos question = can anyone please help?
15:34:40JRoTi will try now Nico_P
15:34:56JRoT*try it
15:35:09*karashata grumbles
15:35:19Nico_PBagder: why doesn't the homepage have a link to MajorChanges anymore?
15:35:27karashataI dunno what I did but whatever it was it really killed something...
15:35:41Zagorwebguest97: only if you ask the question
15:36:07 Quit lostlogic (Remote closed the connection)
15:36:09webguest97OK = just checking to see if anyone was around :-)
15:36:13basculeI recently flashed rockbox to my H120 (for speed and efficiency), but I *think* I flashed it to RAM as well as ROM. Is there any way of removing the RAM image to ensure I take advantage of the extra RAM buffer?
15:36:32Nico_Pkarashata: it's working now?
15:36:43*preglow dropkicks arm
15:36:49basculeI found the IriverFlashing Wiki page slightly confusing
15:36:49webguest97My Archos FM recorder is not being recognized under ubuntu = is this common?
15:37:05karashatano, in fact, I think I have some personal issues with it I need to clear up now before I can check
15:37:17Zagorwebguest97: clarify "recognized"
15:37:19JRoTNico_P: same bug in 15374
15:37:23*scorche|w looks for....ah...there he is :)
15:37:24karashataI'll get back to you as soon as I get it fixed
15:37:47webguest97Not seen at all - I plug it in and nothing happens at all
15:37:51Nico_PJRoT: which one?
15:38:13LinusNwebguest97: that is not common - you don't see anything in /var/log/messages?
15:38:27JRoTwhen i skip tracks it crashes complete
15:38:30Zagorwebguest97: it's probably just not automounted
15:38:42webguest97will check - quite new to linux = brb
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15:40:24JRoTNico_P: when i skip tracks it crashes complete
15:40:53Nico_PJRoT: yes, are both tracks the same codec?
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15:41:36JRoTNico_P: all are MP3
15:41:46webguest97Had a look - can see nothing. I tried closing the log and reconnecting, but noerror or message of any kind
15:41:53webguest97I know it works
15:41:57*karashata wonders why the iriver firmware tool needs to format an already formatted player...
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15:43:08Zagorwebguest97: did this work before? or is this the first time you try it?
15:43:50webguest97First time. It "works" under windows (there is no driver for it though, but it's recognized as a device)
15:44:14webguest97It plays, too. Original firmware and all the tunes I had from a couple of years back
15:44:18Nico_PJRoT: could you send me one of your MP3 files?
15:44:27Nico_Pmaybe it's tag-related or something
15:44:53JRoTsure i can
15:44:56Nico_PJRoT: of course I want one that actually made your sansa crash
15:45:09Zagorwebguest97: try, as root: mount /dev/sda1 /mnt
15:45:45TTThomas_is there a different procedure for updating rockbox versus the initial install? I am trying to update my build, and it locks up at the boot screen.
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15:46:27n1sTTThomas_: not really you usually don't have to update the bootloader though
15:46:42n1sTTThomas: which player is it?
15:46:42webguest97It says "mount point does not exist"
15:46:51TTThomasn1s: Toshiba F40
15:47:18n1sTTThomas: does it work if you try with an older daily build?
15:47:31TTThomasn1s: I have tried without updating the bootloader and with
15:48:10TTThomasn1s: of course I haven't. I never think to try the simple things.
15:48:22TTThomasI'll try that and let you know
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15:51:31Zagorok, run "dmesg | tail -30". is there anything about scsi there?
15:51:39Zagor^^ webguest97
15:51:42TTThomashow do I get to previous daily builds?
15:52:02TTThomasnevermind, i found it
15:52:35webguest60linuxstb could you please aff fotos and info about clix2 on wiki from ?
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15:55:13webguest97"scsi5 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices" = but that may have been for the thumb drive I used earlier
15:55:58webguest97As an aside, is there a workable XP driver (GPL or similar) for this device?
15:56:20peturXP has a build-in UMS driver
15:56:22LinusNwebguest97: the fm recorder is universal mass storage compatible, no driver is needed
15:56:28Zagorwebguest97: look at the storage size, your archos should have a larger disk than your thumb drive
15:57:18TTThomasn1s: should i delete the current .rockbox directory or just overwrite it?
15:57:39webguest97found this too: "scsi 2:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to dead device"
15:57:52LinusNwebguest97: ouch
15:57:53n1sTTThomas: just overwriting should be fine but there is no harm in deleting it unless you want to keep settings and stuff that's in there
15:58:08webguest97...except it ain't dead
15:58:38LinusNwebguest97: well, it didn't work in winxp either
15:58:43Zagorwebguest97: well something is wrong with it. this explains why it's not working on windows either.
15:58:55webguest97I'll give it another try in XP, but something weird is going on here
15:59:10LinusNwebguest97: try it with the charger attached as well
15:59:13webguest97it connects, but says something like hardware config fail
15:59:27webguest97but it has worked
15:59:40webguest97and I have songs on it to prove it
15:59:54webguest97will try with the charger
15:59:56Zagorwhee! kernel: sd 86:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI disk
16:00:04LinusNZagor: wooooooooooooot!
16:00:15Zagorhowever: Unsupported sector size 131072. :-)
16:00:51webguest97thx for all the advice and help
16:00:53markunZagor: congrats!
16:01:00rasherZagor: excellent!
16:01:30Zagorit turns out my earlier mass-storage issue (tags in wrong order etc) was due to caching. big "doh" moment when I realized that...
16:01:36 Quit webguest97 ("CGI:IRC")
16:01:56LinusNZagor: didn't the uncached macros work?
16:02:09Zagorsure, but you have to use them correctly too :-)
16:02:29Zagorspecifically, not only when you send buffers to the usb controller but when you write to the area aswell.
16:02:30 Join lostlogic [0] (n=lostlogi@rockbox/developer/lostlogic)
16:02:36TTThomasn1s: I deleted and wrote a new directory. when it boots I get a booting status screen that has 'Rockbox loaded.' as the final line, but it will not allow me to do anything.
16:03:05*linuxstb does the buggy UMS support dance
16:03:28JRoTso you're another step closer to usb support for sansa , Zagor?
16:03:30*LinusN rehearses the file system corruption dance
16:03:39*linuxstb makes backup
16:03:43ZagorJRoT: yeah a little step :)
16:04:09TTThomasit also tells me I can hold menu when booting for rescue mode, vol+ button to restore original kernel and a button to load original firmware
16:05:00n1sTTThomas: that is really weird I wonder if any of the gigabeat users around here have any ideas?
16:05:25roolkuTTThomas n1s: this looks like a very old boot loader
16:05:44 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:05:45TTThomasit also won't let me connected via usb, so its back to my original build and try again.
16:05:59*TTThomas breaks out the screwdrivers
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16:06:50roolkuTTThomas: this old bootloader will probably expect rockbox.gigabeat to be in the root and in raw format (i.e. not current format)
16:07:12roolkuTTThomas: how did you install the bl ?
16:07:44TTThomasmanually, monthes ago.
16:08:26n1sTTThomas: I thought you said you tried updating the bootloader...
16:09:01linuxstbTTThomas: What happens when you hold menu for rescue mode? You should be able to attach USB then and update.
16:09:04TTThomasi did, it didnt work that why either
16:09:07roolkuI am fairly certain that this is the problem then - update your bootloader
16:09:26 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
16:10:03TTThomasupdating the bootloader is using the latest fwimg01.dat file correct?
16:10:29roolkuTTThomas: yes
16:11:00lostlogicwell that was fun, my leased server's internets were down for 10 minutes +
16:12:27TTThomasi will need to update my .rockbox as well, or will my older build work with a newer bootloader
16:14:20roolkuTTThomas: well, it really depends if they were created before or after the change
16:14:28roolkuTTThomas: be safe and update
16:15:21TTThomasthought so
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16:17:29*J-23 waits for his player ;)
16:17:36TTThomaswell its amazing what happens when you do things in the correct order.
16:17:37roolkuTTThomas: and get rid of any lurking rockbox.gigabeat in the root for good measure
16:17:40JRoTwich one J-23?
16:18:05J-23SanDisk Sansa c240 with radio (in Poland I can buy it without)
16:18:18J-23in other countries probably too ;)
16:18:18TTThomasit seems to be working now. version reports latest build
16:18:36tuplanollamy Sansa e280 arrived last friday <3
16:18:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:18:56JRoTi got my sansa e260 now for 3 weeks
16:19:08JRoTnever used OF only for usb ;)
16:19:17TTThomasare the sansa's that good?
16:19:59tuplanollai tried Sandisk's fw for couple of days, then changed to rockbox :)
16:20:08TTThomasi'll pick one up next time i find one cheap. always love new toys to play with.
16:20:27tuplanollae280 cost 114 euros here
16:20:32StickmanI've been using RB on my e270 since Jan. or so, I'm completely in love with it and far too excited about USB support...:)
16:20:35JRoTi didn't want a ipod, i think it's overrated
16:20:35TTThomasi didn't even use the toshiba's fw for a day. wanted ogg support
16:21:08StickmanThanks to everyone who is working / has worked on Rockbox, it's an amazing achievement
16:21:14DogBoyI've never used sansa fw either
16:21:59tuplanollaactually it isn't a problem to having no usb support in rockbox with e200
16:22:19TTThomashow do you get files over without usb?
16:22:31tuplanollabecause when you plug it in when its turned off, it starts sansa fw
16:22:46StickmanI guess you could use a MicroSD card and external reader to transfer files...
16:23:01tuplanollayea, but that's too complicated ;)
16:23:08 Part hcs
16:24:02JRoTdoes anyone know if the DB of OF updates faster when i put my music in an other dictory?
16:24:04TTThomasbtw, thank you n1s and roolku for your help. everything is copacetic now.
16:24:18n1sgreat :-)
16:24:42StickmanJRoT: apparently it does but I haven't tried it
16:24:53JRoTi will try it tonight
16:25:02JRoTdoesn't matter for rockbbox?
16:25:06Stickmanbecause teh OF only looks in the Music folder
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16:25:55TTThomasi have a lot of theme garbage in my root folder. what files do I need to keep if I am trashing everything but what rockbox needs to run?
16:26:27tuplanollaStickman: i put my music in the root of e280 with OF and it did found them
16:26:37linuxstbTTThomas: Rockbox doesn't need anything outside the .rockbox folder.
16:26:48J-23Where I can learn to write RB plugins?
16:27:06linuxstbJ-23: What do you know already? e.g. can you program in C?
16:27:09TTThomasbootsplash.raw was the onlyone i was really concerned about.
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16:27:41 Part LinusN
16:27:46J-23linuxstb: No...
16:28:00J-23I know only Perl basics and C++ basics
16:28:13linuxstbIf you know C++ basics, C should be straightforward.
16:28:32linuxstbSee the link LinusN posted, and also look at the source code to all the existing plugins.
16:28:58linuxstbThis is also a useful page -
16:29:36TTThomasawesome. new build makes my buttons light up.
16:29:37rasherand docs/PLUGINS although it's fairly dated. apps/plugin.h is also helpful
16:30:02Stickmantuplanolla: :( well that's just what I read somewhere. Maybe if you prefix the folder with a . ?
16:31:17StickmanIf I'm trying to create a new directory on the Sansa, what's the button for 'OK'? I can enter the name but don't seem to be able to confirm.
16:31:48rasherStickman: Play
16:32:10StickmanNope that goes up
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16:32:25tuplanollaStickman: rec?
16:32:29rasherHrm, was that changed..
16:32:36Stickmandoes nothing
16:32:48pixelmaStickman: what sansa?
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16:33:00Stickmanpixelma: e270
16:33:42rasherIt *should* be play/up, unless it changed very recently
16:33:46tuplanollaplay does it for me
16:34:39StickmanHmm, maybe I have an older/newer version...the ver I'm using is acouple fo weeks old
16:35:01rasherThat's more or less the same as I'm using
16:36:57StickmanWeird. The outside buttons move up/down/left/right. Select chooses a character or deletes it if you're over the text. Scroll wheel moves the cursor when you're over the text. Off exits without saving
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16:38:29StickmanI am using a custom build so I suppose it might have some button patch...will check
16:39:33rasherSounds like it
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16:39:52rasherThat would do it..
16:40:41*linuxstb reads the last SVN log message and wonders why lostlogic wants better mistakes...
16:43:17pixelmathey always can be improved :)
16:45:12TTThomasdo most people use the database? my music is so disorganized that I just use the file folders
16:45:58*amiconn thinks would think the db *is* for people with disorganised collections
16:46:32TTThomaswrong choice of words. my file tagging is so disorganized
16:46:54TTThomasmy folder structure is spot on.
16:47:15linuxstbThen if you wanted, you could use an app to fix your tags based on the folder and file names.
16:47:31TTThomaswhat kind of app? (linux preferably)
16:47:44linuxstbI've never used one...
16:49:02lostlogicIs it normal for playback to act like its stuck in low latency mode on a logf build?
16:50:47preglowfoobar can do that, afaik
16:51:19krazykitTTThomas, ex falso will do it
16:51:40TTThomask, i'll look into them
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17:05:31TTThomaskrazykit: ex falso is awesome. thanks!
17:06:00*preglow wonders if there is a fast way to do two parallell 16x16 multiplies with a 32x32 -> 64 multiply...
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17:11:01ShadowCodewhat cen you tell me about ARM9 ?
17:11:31 Join midgey [0] (
17:12:17ShadowCodehaha did that already
17:12:41ShadowCodewhat cen you tell me about ARM9 and RockBox
17:13:27scorche|wwell, what specifically are you looking for?
17:14:05ShadowCodethe same thing I am looking for two months naw
17:14:12ShadowCodeporting RockBox
17:14:18ShadowCodeon RK2608
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17:14:25linuxstbWhat's the exact CPU?
17:14:37ShadowCodeRK2608A :)\
17:15:20linuxstbSo what do you know about that CPU? Is a datasheet available?
17:16:39ShadowCodesome one in hear send me a Datasheat but I lost it
17:16:48ShadowCodeI know the CPU
17:17:06ShadowCodebut dont know it so good to port it
17:17:06markunwhat do you mean?
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17:17:25ShadowCodeI know what it supports
17:17:42ShadowCodebut I dont know the asm instructions
17:18:02linuxstbBut it has some kind of ARM9 core?
17:18:08ShadowCodeand it is ARM9 core
17:18:21ShadowCodeit is ARM9
17:18:49markunI vaguely remeber looking at the datasheet
17:19:01pondlifelostlogic: Low latency mode? Not that I've noticed....
17:19:04linuxstbThen the asm will be standard ARM - not a problem.
17:19:09markunand I thought the examples looked like MIPS, not ARM, but I might be mistaken
17:19:47markunShadowCode: better find the datasheet again
17:20:21ShadowCodefrom the review of the RK2606 rockchip i cen tell its ARM9
17:20:28 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:20:38ShadowCodeand RK2606 and RK2608 are the same
17:20:46markunShadowCode: do you have a link?
17:20:49pixelmaif the link was posted here, you could try searching the logs
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17:22:14peturthe cpu was mentioned in irc on around 17:22
17:22:34*linuxstb is too slow searching the logs
17:22:52linuxstbShadowCode: You gave us a link to the datasheet at 17.43...
17:22:53*petur hugs google
17:23:15pixelmapetur: you can link the post directly by time
17:23:30peturoh.. nice
17:25:27lostlogicpondlife: It was not letting the pcm buffer reach nearly full before unboosting, I'm making sure it doesn't do the same on a normal build
17:25:51pondlifeIt was unboosting early?
17:27:37markunlinuxstb: do you recognize the "example software" asm instructions?
17:27:39ShadowCodehears the datasheat
17:27:53linuxstbmarkun: No...
17:28:45linuxstbAnd there is no mention of the word "arm" anywhere in the PDF
17:29:01pondlifeNor MIPS
17:29:27linuxstbMaybe certain players have both an ARM core plus this chip in them though.
17:29:41ShadowCodebut the review sead it's ARM
17:29:52linuxstbYou can't believe what you read on the Internet...
17:30:33ShadowCodeyes but its bether that nothing
17:30:37linuxstbDo you have a link to the review?
17:30:55 Quit Stickman ("-- no longer here --")
17:31:01ShadowCodeIF you want I cen past the part on ARM
17:31:07markunlinuxstb: these guys also seem to know what they are talking about:
17:31:10markunand no ARM either
17:32:12ShadowCodedont do it the leasy way look at he midle of the review
17:32:51ShadowCodeif you want to search use RK2606 for the search
17:33:28linuxstbIt's odd that the datasheet doesn't mention anything about ARM though.
17:33:32markunShadowCode: well, it doesn't look like ARM to me, and searching for all the instructions in the datasheet also didn't give me a clear picture which instruction set it is
17:33:52Xerionbah the hdd in my H140 is dead :/
17:34:04pondlifeTime to go 80GB?
17:34:15Xerion80's are too rare and expensive
17:34:25lostlogicXerion: sell it to me, I have an extra 40g drive sitting around :-P
17:34:30Xerionthink i'll try to find a 60GB HD on ebay or something
17:34:32*linuxstb feels smug for buying one when they were still available
17:35:14Xerionoh there is a 80 GB avaliable somewhere but for 200 euro, a bit too much ;)
17:35:44ShadowCodeand wath core do you sugest ?
17:36:07markunsomething MIPS like
17:36:07Xerionstupid dutch ebay won't give me my password back :(
17:36:15pondlifeSome marketing stuff..
17:36:21pondlifeProbably no new info
17:36:52markunShadowCode: I don't know what the chances are we will find a compiler for it..
17:37:44ShadowCodewaht is DAC
17:38:46pondlifeI don't think this is relevant, but they do compare it to ARM and MIPS cores.
17:38:53markunpondlife: still a lot of players add a wolfson DAC
17:39:54linuxstbHere is the official site -
17:40:02ShadowCodeand what is I2DSP
17:41:42ShadowCodein the datasheet it is mentioned Embedded DSP Core ?
17:42:27 Quit petur ("*plop*")
17:42:44*karashata has managed to find very little, other than that it's based on the ZSP400 DSP core
17:42:52 Quit sbeh (Remote closed the connection)
17:43:05*linuxstb is too slow again....
17:43:45linuxstbShadowCode: Can you find any other references to it being ARM, apart from that link you gave? Nothing else appears to support that.
17:43:59 Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:44:00karashata <- there's a datasheet for the ZSP400 DSP available for download there
17:45:48pondlifeThe instructions seem to match
17:46:21linuxstbSo conclusion is: Not a straightforward port...
17:46:39ShadowCodecen we test if its ARM or MIPS or ARC ..
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17:46:50markunkarashata: nice find
17:46:59linuxstbShadowCode: Do you have a firmware file for it?
17:46:59karashataI do what I can
17:47:08ShadowCodeI have many
17:47:18markunShadowCode: encrypted?
17:47:24karashata <−− might wanna take a look at that
17:47:27ShadowCodeand the updeat tools and the drivers
17:47:44ShadowCodeI dont know maby
17:47:47ShadowCodeI have to look
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17:49:28pondlifelostlogic: I've noticed that the next track info doesn't seem to display for the last track in the buffer; should a request for next track info bring the buffering forward?
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17:52:43karashata <- dunno if that helps any, should I stop digging now before I turn up stuff that doesn't help?
17:53:25lostlogicpondlife: that should (IMO) be handled entirely in the playback engine, it has a functin for loading just metadata for a track and holding it in its own buffer
17:53:49lostlogic(this is what it did in the pre MoB world)
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17:54:21pondlifeOK, so that would trigger a spinup, which in turn would trigger a rebuffer, right?
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17:55:02lostlogicpondlife: well the way the old code did it was to actually buffer one extra metadata during a buffer fill.. "Buffer's done, read one more metadata and save it for use later"
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17:55:12ShadowCodeYes the Firmware is cripted
17:55:42pondlifeAh, that is something that playback.c should still be doing
17:55:42linuxstbShadowCode: Do you have a link to a firmware file?
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17:55:51lostlogicpondlife: so if we don't do that inside playback then yes I suppose that a request should be made to buffer the next track, which would trigger the full rebuffer at that time.
17:56:23lostlogicpondlife: but in order to supoprt next-track for tracks larger than the buffer I think playback needs to handle it entirely
17:56:35ShadowCodeyes w8 a sec
17:56:58Nico_Plostlogic: for tracks longer than the buffer it could simply load the metadata directly to nexttrack_id3
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17:57:08pondlifePlayback maintains its own copy anyway, it's just the timing.
17:57:24lostlogicNico_P: what about for shorter tracks that are just at the end of the buffer?
17:57:34pondlifeNico_P: It should do the same thing for all tracks, regardless of size
17:57:42lostlogicdo you think we should do a rebuffer as soon as that metadata is needed or have another id3 buffer in playback.c to hold it?
17:58:06pondlifeRebuffer would be more consistent
17:58:11pondlifeBut it should come out in the wash.
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17:58:17Nico_Ppondlife: when there are several tracks on the buffer, the metadata would be erased
17:58:35pondlifeWouldn't that handle be kept open?
17:58:48Nico_Pit's not a handle
17:59:07ShadowCodelinuxstb: ftp://d:d@
17:59:19pondlifeAh, I thought there was a track and a metadata handle for each track.
17:59:23Nico_Pwhat I'm saing is that for tracks longer than the buffer, nextrack_id3 will always be empty so we can use it
17:59:33Nico_Ppondlife: it's the case
17:59:34ShadowCodeand this is the upgread sofrware ftp://d:d@
18:00:11lostlogicpondlife: I don't see a way we can handle it the same for both cases.
18:00:23pixelmadionoea: MoB was not implemented for hwcodec (yet) and afaik amiconn has no problems with his RecorderV1
18:00:43pondlifeI don't really know the code well enough to comment in detail, I'm afraid.
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18:00:47lostlogicpondlife: for a track longer than the buffer, the next track metadata cannot be on buffer, but for a track that happens to be at the end, it can be no the buffer but will only be if we do an early rebuffer
18:01:41pondlifeWe have to keep a copy off-buffer anyway then.
18:01:56Nico_Pyeah I think we have to use yet another static buffer
18:01:57pondlifeJust the ID3/track structure
18:02:01linuxstbShouldn't the idea be that the playback engine never touches the disk - all disk I/O is done via the buffering API?
18:02:06lostlogicNico_P: that's what I'm afraid of.
18:02:30pondlifelinuxstb: Not really, more that all audio buffer use goes via the API
18:02:32lostlogiclinuxstb: that would preclude providing next_track info when playing a > buffer sized track
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18:03:13 Join webguest30 [0] (i=432024e6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
18:03:17pondlifeWhich is most of the time when we get to Archos-land.
18:03:27 Quit webguest30 (Client Quit)
18:03:32pondlifeOr rather, much more often.
18:03:34linuxstblostlogic: Couldn't that be made a feature of the API - to always have that metadata available?
18:03:55Nico_Plinuxstb: the API isn't really meant for this sort of thing
18:03:56pondlifeSeems to not be a buffer issue, just a playback one..
18:04:54lostlogiclinuxstb: I was just running some scenarios in my head −− it would be possible to make the api reserve space at the end of buffering for an id3 struct which playback reads when it needs that metadata and immediateyl frees.
18:04:55linuxstbBut isn't the buffering intended to handle metadata?
18:04:58lostlogicNico_P: what do you think of that?
18:05:20lostlogicNico_P: it would require some reworking of the way space is reserved on the buffer perhaps, but should be doable.
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18:05:55Nico_Plostlogic: it could make things become quite complex
18:05:59pondlifeThere's a danger of wasting space with multiple copies of the id3 struct., no?
18:06:05pondlifei.e. in playback too
18:06:19lostlogicpondlife: not sure I follow
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18:06:44pondlifeWe currently have statics in playback.c for the previous/current/next track, right?
18:06:47lostlogicNico_P: the main problem would come in keeping synchronized between cur_handle->widx and buf_widx but yes, it could be hairy.
18:07:30lostlogicpondlife: yeah, having a "last" in addition shouldn't cause trouble, just waste space. Last would be only used to copy into next when the buffer doesn't have next and never for anything else
18:08:13pondlifeAh, I see.. Just a track struct, not full metadata.
18:08:19Nico_Plostlogic: I think the static struct in playback.c is more KISS, especially as it's not really the buffering API's job to handle that
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18:08:34lostlogicpondlife: jsut an struct id3
18:08:49 Quit sbeh ("changing servers")
18:08:52lostlogicNico_P: I agree ;) just trying to appease linuxstb ;)
18:08:57 Quit Bradleian ("Leaving")
18:09:06*pondlife wishes that struct wasn't called id3... :)
18:09:08 Join sbeh [0] (
18:09:12lostlogicpondlife: don't we all ;)
18:09:15Nico_Pit's actually called mp3
18:09:21pondlifeEven worse!
18:09:24Nico_Pmp3entry... :p
18:09:25pondlifetrack_info ?
18:09:35pondlifeGo on, you know you want to...
18:09:54Nico_Pit's about metadata... track_info is already used in playback.c
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18:10:59Nico_PI was thinking about using offsets instead of pointers in struct mp3entry... it would make some things complicates
18:11:53lostlogicNico_P: what does it complicate?
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18:12:04Nico_Plostlogic: access to the values
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18:12:47Nico_Pno more id3->artist... you'd need to change all the code that accesses it to (char *)(id3 + artist)
18:13:12Nico_Por actually (char *)(id3 + id3->artist)
18:14:02ShadowCodeI found something about zsp interupts int the datasheet the core is zsp ?
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18:16:45lostlogicNico_P: yeah, trunuf −− I wonder if we could do some macro magic on it
18:18:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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18:19:01Nico_Pyeah maybe #define ID3(ptr, string) (char *)(ptr->buffer + ptr->string)
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18:33:42ciapuppeti did something while a song started playing: i held the rewind button in thinkin it would continue from the last songs ending position. but my sansa blacked out the screen and became unresponsive.. now the scroll wheel is lit up the entire time and the little thing wont power off
18:34:14scorche|whold power for a bit
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18:37:26markunShadowCode: 17:42 * karashata has managed to find very little, other than that it's based on the ZSP400 DSP core
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18:39:36ShadowCodeok so wat cen I do about it ?
18:40:04ShadowCodeI want to crack this player and use the full power of the CPU
18:40:36ciapuppetshot damn.. that actually WORKED (did not the first time) thanks scorche
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18:41:04markunShadowCode: maybe you can find this compiler:
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18:41:42markun"The C compiler ( sdcc) has been implemented by retargeting the Free Software Foundation's GNU compiler (gcc) for the ZSP architecture."
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18:46:54ShadowCodeis ther a guid on how no run test code on this player
18:47:32ShadowCodeTL-C260 RockChip RK2608A :)
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18:51:47scorche|wShadowCode: well, that is the whole point of a port...that is one of the steps to figure out
18:52:56ShadowCodeVery bad
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18:54:50karashata <−− no clue if this helps anyone at all, but, here ya go...
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19:02:29amiconndionoea, pixelma: Current builds are working fine on hwcodec; I'm using my recorder this week, just updated the build y'day
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19:04:08scorche|wvery bad?...this is all part of the process for a port...
19:04:15pixelmaamiconn: maybe you have an idea what could be wrong for him then...
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19:09:02preglowamiconn: you wouldn't happen to know of a fast trick to use 'smull' to calculate two packed 16x16 bit multiplies, would you? :>
19:10:21amiconnAfaik that's not possible
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19:13:08ShadowCodeRockchip rk26** is based on zsp400 dsp core
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19:13:54ShadowCodelook this tread
19:14:17linuxstb_ShadowCode: We've been saying that for the past couple of hours...
19:14:22ShadowCodethis is a disassembler for .rkp the game format of the player
19:14:44ShadowCodehaha sry I was doing something else :)
19:15:14ShadowCodeok so I naw need a compiler to suport zsp400 ?
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19:15:28*karashata nods
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19:15:36karashatabest of luck to ya, though
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19:15:56karashataI searched through everything I could think of and turned up nothing I would expect to be useful
19:17:07ShadowCodethis guy maked the disassembler must know something
19:17:20ShadowCodeI am going to get in touch with him
19:17:45linuxstb_Nico_P: I thought about storing the metadata strings as offsets, but am not sure it's a good idea. IIUC, they are read many times, so it may be more efficient to keep them as they are, and adjust the pointers if you move the struct. You would also need to change all the metadata parsers...
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19:19:53Nico_Plinuxstb_: yes, that's what I realised. accessing is the critical operation, not moving
19:20:42markunkarashata: I also found that sourceforge project, but it's not the same
19:21:43karashatamarkun: unfortunately, anything else I tried turned up the PDF you got that comment from in the first place, and nothing else I figured could be useful
19:22:30lostlogiclinuxstb_: problem is that the buffer shouldn't hafta 'do stuff' to data as it moves it around on itself
19:23:09lostlogicbut then I guess we are an audio playback firmware so some level of special treatment may be 'right'
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19:24:16preglowamiconn: no, i didn't think so either, just wanted to see if you had any tricks up your sleeve, heh
19:24:25preglowpacked 1616 is giving me shit on arm
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19:49:19ShadowCodeIs someone hear know Chinies ?:)
19:49:34ShadowCodegoogle cent translate something
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20:17:44amiconnpreglow: If you have to process packed 16 bit samples, it still pays off on arm7tdmi to load multile sample pairs with ldmia, then decompose to do the multiplication
20:18:00preglowamiconn: problem is i have so few registers
20:18:00amiconnSee my demac filter code for arm7
20:18:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:19:02preglowbesides, high -> low = 1 cycle, low mask -> 2 cycles, that's just the same as an ldrsh
20:19:22amiconnDoing 8x ldrh costs 24 cycles, doing 1x ldmia into 4 regs costs 6 cycles, plus 12 for the decomposition (when signed; for unsigned it would be cheaper)
20:19:34amiconnThat saves 25%
20:19:46preglowamiconn: oh, i don't have enough registers for ldmia by far, ldr is all i can do
20:19:55amiconnThen it's not worth it
20:20:10preglowperhaps in the .order_10 loop when i don't have enough regs for keeping the memory loaded anyway
20:20:37amiconnOn arm7 it practically always pays off to use ldmia
20:20:41preglowamiconn: i figure i'll gain more by keeping the eight memory values in registers than burst reading the 16 bit array anyway
20:20:44amiconnEven when loading just 2 regs
20:20:56preglowsmall wonder, ldr is so slow...
20:21:23amiconnOn arm9 and higher that advantage is gone - if you can put something between the load(s) and the processing instructions
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20:21:54preglowwell, i get a data abort for some stupid reason anyway, so this is all moot until i fix that
20:22:17preglowa data abort, then a second afterwards, illinstr exception :P
20:22:20linuxstb_amiconn: Did you look at my ARM version of the predictor decoder to see if it could be improved?
20:22:37amiconnlinuxstb: I used it as a reference for my cf version...
20:23:09amiconnBut the predictor isn't the bottleneck, as I confirmed this morning
20:26:41preglowyou're still sure it uses a range coder?
20:26:55preglowrange coding as in arithmetic coding?
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20:27:04preglowno wonder it's kinda heavy, then
20:27:08amiconnAs in the twin of arithmetic coding, exactly
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20:28:08preglowape strikes me as somewhat overkill :P
20:28:18preglowbloody order 1000 filters and range coding for marginal gains
20:28:45amiconnThat's only the 'insane' compression - and that does 3 level filtering
20:29:07amiconn16th order followed by 256th order followed by 1280th order
20:29:10preglowyou have to do such an insane amount of work to squeeze out those last bits
20:29:15preglowwavpack uses only order 1 filters...
20:30:13amiconn-c1000 uses no extra filter. -c2000 uses 16th order, -c3000 uses 64th order, and -c4000 uses 32th order followed by 256th order
20:30:22Buschelkind of funny. did you knwo that the wording "xtreme" and "insane" were taken over from musepack and that this wording was defined in a night telephone conference with one tester, several beers and cigarettes? ;o)
20:30:47preglowas it should be
20:31:09Buschelmy room was quite foggy −− as my mind :)
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20:31:17preglowamiconn: while i remember, any reason buschel's latest patch isn't commited?
20:31:22przemhbHi all
20:31:40preglowBuschel: you had a look at sv8, btw?
20:31:43amiconnpreglow: Which one? The one that just skips updates is dirrty...
20:31:56preglowamiconn: 8041, don't think it skips updates
20:32:00Buschelpreglow: not yet, only did 1 or 2 enc/dec tests
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20:32:17preglowBuschel: they're pestering my to sync rockbox with it all the time, heh
20:32:57Buscheli can guess
20:33:06preglowi eventually will, but i can't be bothered now
20:33:10preglowi don't really enjoy syncing...
20:33:18preglowplus, it'll kill our sv4-6 support
20:33:26preglowunless i merge it in, and i really, really can't be bothered
20:33:31Buschelsyncing is great, merging is a pain :)
20:33:33preglowi don't think many people have 4-6 files
20:33:38amiconnpreglow: (1) the leaving out of certain register writes needs to be tested on an older G5 (hw rev before 0xb0010)
20:33:41preglowBuschel: yeah, i mean merge, heh
20:33:46preglowamiconn: oh, ok
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20:34:03n1swhy do they keep breaking the format anyway?
20:34:23amiconn(2) I have an idea how to hide the 14ms wait from the update functions completely, without missing updated content
20:34:24Buschelpreglow: at least I should have some sv4-sv6...
20:34:25preglowthat happens really seldom
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20:35:08amiconnThe rectangle coordinate writes _are_ necessary with the current system, otherwise updates would be placed wrong
20:35:40Buschelmusepack sv4-sv6 was availabe for very short time. i dont think there is a reasonable amount of files exisiting. the brakethrough came with sv7
20:35:54amiconnLeaving them out is possible when they didn't change from the last update, but the if() for checking would be almost slower than just doing the write
20:36:33amiconn...if done the way I discovered - not all parameters need a call to lcd_bcm_write32(), only the first one. The bcm auto-increments the write address internally
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20:36:39Buschelamiconn: i played around with creating a task which starts the updates
20:36:54amiconnA complete task would be overkill
20:37:20amiconnI'll try using a tick task, and if that can't be synchronised nicely, I'll hook into the scroll thread
20:38:06Buschelmiconn: hmm, i also used a tick taks. why not using a tiny "real" taks and use semaphores for interacting?
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20:40:13Buschelamiconn: like giving the semaphore when pixel updates are finished. then driver task starts updates, waits until update finished and takes semaphore again?
20:40:54Buschelamiconn: this way we cpould meanwhile do further updates... (for same rect setup type)
20:41:19amiconnMy idea allows putting new updates *always*
20:42:03amiconnThe tick task is just for making sure that updated content written while an update is running will be shown even if there are no further calls to lcd_update_rect() or lcd_yuv_blit() afterwards
20:42:07Buscheleven on changed rect setup?
20:42:28amiconnI will *never* change the rectangle once set up for fullscreen :)
20:42:52amiconnBut of course I won't transfer the full rectangle everytime, that would be silly
20:43:35Buschelso, constant setup and then writing the pixel data to the appropriate dest...
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20:46:31Buschelmaybe could take into account fs#8041 into account before? it does some speed-up of the lcd_update_rect (the asm-stuff) and some clean-up via removing un-needed calls.
20:47:00amiconnBut I won't start to implement this before a G5 owner tests some stuff. I have the suspicion that the bcm in there is a bit different
20:47:01Buschelahem, doubled "into account"... but you knwo what i mean
20:47:05Slasherihmm, the latest updates to playback code have broken the db statistics updating
20:47:29Buschelamiconn: just post a patch and ask for test?
20:47:46preglowjhMikeS: patch for you in the tracker
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20:47:47amiconnThe commands I found - there is a function that selects one of them based on the ipod's hw revision
20:48:14amiconnEither the bcm itself is different, or the firmware loaded into it from the flash rom
20:48:33amiconnThe real challenge is to figure out how to use the on-disk bcm firmware
20:48:52preglowwe need to find out how to upload and use the apple codecs :>
20:49:33amiconnBased on what I found in the OF so far, it seems to be quite different. I did not find any of the command words found in the rom, nor those 0xE00nn addresses
20:50:06amiconnlinuxstb said that he could perform those tests
20:50:42amiconnpreglow: I would be even more interested in letting the bcm do the yuv conversion
20:51:03amiconnAfaiu, the bcm codecs are for mpeg4 and for h.264, not for mpeg2
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20:51:58bertrikplayback.c currently defines some callbacks that take a (bool) last_track argument, but none of the current callback users uses this last_track argument
20:52:17bertrikif that callback argument is removed, playback.c can get a little smaller and simpler, shall i submit a patch?
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20:53:18preglowamiconn: sure, but then you'll need a whole new tool set and docs on what kind of instruction set it uses...
20:53:28amiconnbertrik: If those are general callbacks which can also register on hwcodec, that engine would need to be adjusted as well
20:53:49amiconnBut saving binsize is always nice....
20:54:03bertrikas far as i can see (in the c code), nobody uses it
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20:55:54bertrikI'll try to make a patch (and will no doubt find out if there's still a user somewhere)
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20:57:33amiconnbertrik: Only tagtree.c seems to use it, and that one just uses (void)last_track; to silence gcc...
20:58:23Slasheriyep, last_track isn't used at all
20:58:28Slasherithat can be removed
20:58:47bertrikand it removes a special case from audio_generate_postbuffer_events and audio_clear_track_entries
20:59:23Slasheriit was used a very long time ago..
20:59:32amiconnIt needs to be removed from firmware/mpeg.c as well then
20:59:50amiconnSlasheri: I guess that was only used in the old tagdb?
21:00:29amiconnIirc it was even me who added the callback mechanism to the hwcodec engine back then...
21:01:00Slashericurrent db engine commits changes to disk after a few seconds delay after last update request
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21:01:34amiconnHmm, it's not delayed until the next spinup?
21:01:55Slasherinope, but playback engine makes sure those requests are made during spinup only
21:02:07amiconnAh, hmm...
21:02:17linuxstbamiconn: Me and my 5g are available...
21:02:22*amiconn isn't sure whether this works properly on hwcodec then
21:02:35amiconnlinuxstb: Ah, nice :)
21:02:59amiconnlinuxstb: First test: try the 4 known command words one by one in lcd_init()
21:03:04Slasheriamiconn: but probably the db engine could be improved to handle all the caching itself
21:03:12amiconn(which is an empty fn in svn)
21:03:44amiconnSlasheri: I guess it works properly on hwcodec though, as those are buffer/unbuffer callbacks, and buffering requires the disk to be spinning
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21:04:02Slasheriindeed, it should
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21:04:19Slasheribut atm it seems no buffer callbacks are generated properly on the swcodec side
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21:05:20amiconnlinuxstb: put the following 2 statements in lcd_init(), then build, install (just core is sufficient), boot and watch the screen during boot. Then do a quick measurement of fps (doing just one cpu freq is sufficient)
21:05:31linuxstbamiconn: Do you mean lcd_init_device?
21:05:45amiconnehm, yes
21:06:21amiconnlcd_bcm_write32(0x1F8, 0xFFF70008); BCM_CONTROL = 0x31;
21:06:49jhMikeSpreglow: patch for me? just got home so time for a mail call I guess.
21:06:58amiconnRepeat this with the command value changed to 0xFFF5000A, then 0xFFEC0013, then 0xFFEB0014
21:07:52amiconnFor me, executing 3 of those 4 just does nothing. 0xFFF70008 seems to be some kind of reset - it causes a brief flash of white followed by the normal display reappearing
21:08:33amiconnThe ROM uses 2 commands in sequence, but that'll be the next test
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21:10:00Buschel_i hate my notebooks battery save mode...
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21:10:19LloreanBuschel_: This is #Rockbox...
21:10:42linuxstbWith the first command, I get an apple logo, then a white flash, then an apple logo, then the main menu in Rockbox - no Rockbox splash.
21:10:59amiconnAh, so the reset takes a while
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21:11:38amiconn(so the bcm misses our first lcd_update() - the one writing the splash screen
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21:12:04Buschel_llorean: i know, and i dislike beeing disconnected all the time when it shuts down
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21:14:29 Quit ShadowCode ()
21:16:20syn4psecan I #include <math.h> in my plugin code? I want to implement tan()
21:17:10amiconnThere is no math.h in rockbox, so no
21:17:24amiconn(unless I'm missing sth)
21:17:30linuxstbamiconn: With the other three commands, everything seems normal. FPS appears identical in all 4 tests - 23.6/46.7fps @ 30MHz
21:17:42amiconnOkay, so the same what I get
21:17:54amiconnYours was an 0xb0005 ?
21:18:06linuxstbLet me double-check
21:18:25syn4pseis there a sqrt()?
21:18:26linuxstbYes, HW info displays 0xb0005
21:18:57linuxstbThis is one of the first ipod videos - bought within the first couple of months of release.
21:19:15amiconnlinuxstb: Okay. Next test would be to try the 2-command sequences the OF uses, in theit 4 permutations, with a sleep(5) inbetween
21:19:59amiconnlcd_bcm_write32(0x1F8, 0xFFEC0013); BCM_CONTROL = 0x31; sleep(5); lcd_bcm_write32(0x1F8, 0xFFF70008); BCM_CONTROL = 0x31;
21:20:34amiconn..with the permutations being 0xFFEB0014 in the first command, and 0xFFF5000A in the second
21:21:27amiconnThe OF uses 0xFFEC0013 on 0xb0010 and higher, and 0xFFEB0014 on earlier models
21:21:45linuxstb So (13,08), (14,08), (13,0A), (14,0A) ?
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21:23:01linuxstbFirst test gives the same effect as the previous first test - apple, white, apple, menu
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21:23:48DerPapst'lo all
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21:24:25DerPapstiirc someone here wanted to have the source code of iboy?
21:25:00DerPapstanyways... here it is.
21:25:35linuxstbIs that the current source? Whenever I looked for source in the past, the source never matched the latest binaries...
21:25:43DerPapstit is
21:25:54DerPapsttook me one month to get it :D
21:26:11linuxstbThanks, but I've no idea who was asking for it...
21:26:31scorche|wit took you a month to get it? o_O
21:27:38DerPapstyeah.. lot's of people don't take it that serious if they modify GPL'ed code that they have to release the source too.
21:27:44amiconnlinuxstb: I forgot to mention that you need a forward declaration of lcd_bcm_write32(), but you obviously noticed...
21:27:52linuxstbamiconn: Test 2 (14,08) is the same as the first.
21:28:02linuxstbYes, I just moved the init function further down...
21:28:13amiconnNo speed difference either?
21:28:21linuxstbNo, all still the same.
21:28:37*amiconn really wonders what those '13' and '14' commands are for
21:28:57amiconnThe rom seems to know a total of 4 lcd types...
21:29:02DerPapstso i talked to one of the last devs and he managed to find the source somewhere and send it to me.
21:29:16linuxstbDerPapst: I've noticed... ;) Odd for a Linux-based project...
21:29:43scorche|wquite odd...isnt it in cvs/svn?
21:29:45DerPapstwhe try to enfore these rules more strictly now.
21:30:24DerPapstnope it's 3rd party and thus not in the official svn repo
21:31:14DerPapstthere is a svn repo for iboy however but this is a quiet old source snapshot (somewhere around 0.3.X or 0.5.X).
21:32:18amiconnlinuxstb: Btw, the missing splash also happens here - didn't even notice that yesterday :>
21:32:32amiconn(when sending 0xfff7008 that is)
21:32:34linuxstbamiconn: Test 3 (13,0A) shows the splash as normal, same FPS.
21:34:03amiconnThe only command that seems to do anything is 0007 (apart from the known 0005: update rectangle)
21:34:06oboamiconn: are you after a video which isn't a 0xb0005?
21:34:37amiconnI have a recent one for testing (still LinusN's) - it's an 0xb0011
21:36:02linuxstbTest 4 (14,0A) same as the third.
21:36:38amiconnOkay, thanks. Now you can remove the command stuff from lcd_init_device() (or just revert the file to svn)
21:36:56amiconnNext tests deal with lcd_bcm_setup_rect()
21:37:09linuxstbThere's more? ;)
21:37:25amiconnYes :/
21:37:33amiconn3 to be precise
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21:38:22amiconnFirst one is testing the address auto-increment. That requires replacing all occurences of lcd_bcm_write32() in lcd_bcm_setup_rect() *except the first 2*
21:38:53amiconnI.e. leave the ones that write to 0x1F8 and 0xE0000, and replace all following one with just a write to BCM_DATA32
21:39:08amiconnBCM_DATA32 = x; BCM_DATA32 = y; ....
21:39:23 Quit styleism (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:39:25amiconnShould be 7 in total
21:41:27linuxstbThat seems fine.
21:42:34amiconnOkay, final 2 tests are for 'don't care' parameters in there
21:43:17amiconnFirst one: Set the first parameter (the one written to 0xe0000 in the second lcd_bcm_write32()) to 0, as well as the last 3 ones
21:43:41amiconnSo write 0, then the 4 rectangle parameters, then 3 times 0
21:45:25linuxstbSeems good.
21:45:55 Quit Siku ()
21:46:09amiconnThe final one is just for making sure those parameters are really ignored, by writing some arbitrary values. Make sure they take up more than 16 bits
21:46:24amiconnI used (decomal) 111111, 222222, 333333 and 444444
21:46:31linuxstbSo values I've put as zero?
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21:50:10linuxstbYes, that's fine too.
21:50:29amiconnOkay, so I can be fairly sure that different bcm versions are not an issue
21:50:43amiconnThank you very much for testing :)
21:51:03linuxstbYou're welcome. Now you can work a miracle....
21:51:07amiconnForgot to ask - did you upgrade the firmware at some point?
21:51:21amiconnThe OF (+flash) I mean...
21:51:32linuxstbI can't remember...
21:51:42amiconnhmm, ok
21:52:11linuxstbIt possibly has been though. I can check the Apple firmware version now.
21:53:25linuxstbIt says 1.2.1
21:53:38*linuxstb has no idea what that means though...
21:54:01amiconnThe diag mode displays the lcd type iirc
21:54:13amiconnMine (well, LinusN's) is type 2
21:54:21*DerPapst guesses that it's the latest version of the apple bootloader
21:55:23amiconnlinuxstb: Btw, while doing this, I am looking for backlight brightness and hdd power stuff in parallel
21:55:42linuxstbI was just about to say that I noticed a backlight brightness test screen in diagmode...
21:55:46midgeyDerPapst: you can get the iboy source off of their sourceforge page (
21:56:05amiconnlinuxstb: Yes, I found that screen's code in the rom, but I don't understand yet how it works
21:56:07DerPapstmidgey: didn't know they updated it
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21:56:27DerPapstmidgey: last time i checked it was outdated.
21:56:44linuxstbamiconn: I assume you found my flashsplit program to separate the apps in the flash?
21:56:45midgeyOct 03, 2007
21:56:45amiconnIt calls several functions which do some weird calculations with the parameters, and then fiddle with both the gpio port range and 0x70000080
21:57:13midgeyDerPapst: its under the iBoy heading, not iBoy Source
21:57:19linuxstbI can't find an lcd type display in the diagmode...
21:57:26amiconnI remember that program, but didn't use it. I just didassembled the whole blob
21:57:26midgeyits a tar.bz2 that contains the release binaries and source
21:57:35amiconnMore than half of the rom is just empty...
21:57:39midgeytook me forever to find it a while back
21:58:51amiconnlinuxstb: It's in the Accessories test
21:58:57linuxstbamiconn: I just found "LCD ID : 2" - in the "Accessorize Test" screen.
21:59:22amiconnYou'll now need a fw power cable to proceed...
21:59:36linuxstbOr MENU+SELECT...
21:59:57amiconnHmm, reset works. Somehow it didn't work the last time I tried - which puzzled me
22:00:21amiconnI know that reset should always work - that's why I was puzzled
22:01:15linuxstbmidgey: Have you looked at the iboy source in detail?
22:01:32 Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection)
22:01:50midgeylinuxstb: I've looked at it, but I wouldn't say in detail
22:02:23linuxstbAny plans to try and use some of the code for rockboy?
22:02:37 Join Frazz [0] (
22:03:13midgeyat one point a hacked their dynamic translator and asm code over into rockboy, but i never tested it
22:03:44linuxstbThat sounds like a lot of work to not test...
22:03:54midgeyi dont know if i have that attempt floating around on this computer or the one at home
22:04:10midgeylinuxstb: blame the brother for not letting me borrow his iPod
22:04:22amiconnI assume the dynamic translater is arm only atm?
22:04:37*linuxstb takes midgey's brother off the cookie list
22:04:45midgeyamiconn: indeed
22:05:13midgeyto be honest, i really dont know that much about emulation or dynamic translation for that matter
22:05:20amiconnFor rockbox it'll need some extension then. Could be done gradually if it doesn't break the interpreted execution
22:05:24 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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22:05:39*amiconn is really curious how much dynamic translation helps
22:05:58 Join JdGordon [0] (
22:06:04amiconnI know that (win)uae profits a lot from the technique
22:06:42 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
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22:07:06midgeyamiconn: i think they did some benchmarks and posted the results and a rundown of the code changes in a pdf on their sourceforge
22:07:34DerPapstiboy runs at least a bit faster than realtime even with color roms
22:07:49 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
22:07:54midgeyi've got some changes to the lcd code that I'd like to commit some time after this week
22:08:22midgeythe asm for the recorder will need updating, i've if 0'd it out in the patch
22:08:24amiconnThe lcd code in rockboy is a real mess atm imho
22:08:45amiconnThe greyscale updates are done completely different from the colour ones
22:08:52linuxstbDerPapst: Do you know if it also makes use of both cpu cores?
22:09:06DerPapstit has some routines.. yes
22:09:15midgeythis patch tries to unify the code to use one routine for both
22:09:24midgeyand adds iPod greyscale support
22:09:35midgeybut it currently is ifdef hell
22:10:05amiconnOtoh I would like to see this code stay as fast as possible
22:10:08midgeylinuxstb: the code seems to use the cop here and there
22:10:37midgeyamiconn: i don't have any non-color targets to test on so i cant say if it has an inpact on speed
22:11:03bertrikamiconn: I made a patch for removal of the last_track argument removal: FS #8053
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22:14:31amiconnbertrik: For hwcodec this could be simplified more
22:14:57 Quit crashd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:15:06amiconnThe event_count variable does just exist for determining the last track
22:15:58bertrikah, hadn't looked that far, doing one thing at a time
22:16:00amiconnSo the whole first loop could go in each of the funtions
22:16:56bertrikwant me to fix it?
22:17:16amiconnThe first loop is just for determining how many unsent events are there, so the second loop knows when to set that flag
22:18:03amiconnAnd now I remember what this was for: it was indeed a hint for the old tagdb when to flush buffered data
22:18:24amiconnMan, this must have been ages ago...
22:18:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:19:45 Join Zagor [0] (
22:20:22midgeyif anyone would like to take a look at the rockboy lcd changes, see FS #7546
22:20:39midgeylcd_refreshline() is full of ifdefs...
22:21:20midgeysuggestions on a better method or a way around the ifdefs are welcome
22:22:10linuxstbWithout looking at the code, my only suggestion would be splitting the code into separate files, possibly with some duplication, but that could be cleaner than trying to do it all in one function.
22:22:34midgeythe main issue it the pixel format
22:22:46linuxstbSo separate files by pixel format?
22:23:05midgeymight be an option
22:23:22 Join crashd [0] (
22:23:23amiconnMore than 2 years ago, r7376 from 21 Aug 2005....
22:25:44linuxstbmidgey: You would probably also want to introduce a SOURCES file (so you can #ifdef files), and change the Makefile to use it.
22:25:46 Quit Buschel_ ()
22:26:18amiconnmidgey: If that dynamic translation can be put in platform-by-platform, I'd be really interested in trying to adapt it for SH1...
22:26:50amiconnAtm the recorder version is purely experimental, at 1..2fps...
22:26:58midgeylinuxstb: yes, that'd be the best way to do it
22:27:33 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
22:27:50midgeyamiconn: if i have some time this weekend i'll upload my attempt at hacking in the iboy stuff
22:27:56midgeyi highly doubt it will work
22:30:03amiconnAnd of course we should make it work on coldfire too
22:30:22*linuxstb wonders optimistically if Zagor would be interested in porting his USB code to Telechips ;)
22:30:24amiconnThere are beginnings of 'dynarec' (as he called it) done by HCl...
22:30:42Zagorlinuxstb: I definitely am
22:30:50amiconnlinuxstb: First, it needs to be working...
22:31:05linuxstbWhich, the USB code or the Telechips port? ;)
22:32:12*linuxstb goes back to reading the NAND datasheet...
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22:33:43midgeyZagor: congratulations on your progress by the way. you're moving much faster than i would have thought
22:34:31Zagormidgey: nice of you say that (I think ;) personally I'm frustrated that I'm hitting so many problems slowing down my progress.
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22:35:52midgeyheh, even with your slow-ups you're moving fast
22:36:35midgeyi've never really looked into how usb works so it all seems complex to me
22:36:54*n1s got his gigabeat s today and is now standing with the crowd eagerly awaiting that usb code :-)
22:37:19 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
22:37:32amiconnHuh? Gigabeat has a hw bridge afaik...
22:37:37amiconnAh, S
22:38:11Zagorn1s: can you run a test and read out three registers for me?
22:38:48n1sZagor: I haven't run any code on it yet but will probably look into it some time next week or so...
22:39:19 Quit amiconn (" rebbbbbooootttt")
22:39:20 Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@unaffiliated/kugel)
22:39:51n1sZagor: if you post what it is that you want to know you might get lucky if any of the gigabeat s hackers read the logs :)
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22:40:44n1sor if it is a roadblock for you I'll try to get it running now...
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22:41:19JdGordonmorning all
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22:41:27ZagorI've tried that a couple of days now. seems not many people are working on the S yet. it's not a roadblock, I'd just like to know how much the usb modules differ
22:41:57JdGordondoes anyone have a problem with aloowing the list to have scrollbars as its items? (so the debug screes can use the list widget) ?
22:44:07linuxstbIIUC, the S port is still at a stage where it's hard to run code - it requires patching a windows installer and flashing the device.
22:44:27 Quit Er-Mentolino ("So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish -")
22:44:49n1slinuxstb: that's as much as I have gathered
22:45:10linuxstbJdGordon: I don't understand what you mean...
22:45:10n1sand the wiki page isn't overly clear either :-)
22:45:42 Join bluey [0] (
22:46:00linuxstbFrom what I've understood, it seems the S has an even more convoluted booting system than the Sansas with their 4 USB modes...
22:46:06 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
22:46:06JdGordonlinuxstb: the buffering and i tihnk one or two other debug windows have horizontal scroll bar things to show info.. I'm wondering if its a bad idea to allow the list to display them as items?
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22:46:48linuxstbYou mean the progress bar things?
22:47:03*JdGordon not fully awake yet
22:48:18linuxstbWhat's the reason for making the debug screens use the list widget?
22:48:22lostlogic <−− I want one and I want to hack it.
22:48:31JdGordonamiconn: I know how im going to fix the info list things so it doesnt take much effort to fix the current screens... _BUT_ on bitmap lcd it is going to have to be a setting... the text callbacks dont know which display they are on so it cant reposition automatically)
22:49:23crashdlostlogic: those squeezeboxs are nice eh ?
22:49:24JdGordonlinuxstb: really none... except maybe a bit of code shirnkage
22:50:18Zagorlostlogic: I can strongly recommend it. I've had one for years.
22:50:47lostlogicnice, glad to hear I'm not the only one who's been struck by the bug to get his _digital_ audio wirelessly to his stereo.
22:50:55Zagorhacking it is quite simple −− the server is made in perl :)
22:51:06crashdi've been considering building my own setup with a cheap touchscreen interface
22:51:09lostlogicooh, one of my favorites
22:51:20*rasher coughs and points at the topic
22:51:20crashdZagor: is that the slimserver?
22:51:21amiconnDon't use 'simple' and 'perl' in one sentence... ;)
22:51:25Zagorcrashd: yup
22:51:35lostlogicamiconn: :(
22:51:37lostlogicrasher: :(
22:51:42 Quit Toxicity999 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:51:44linuxstbZagor: What about the device itself? Is that's hackable, or do you have no desire to/
22:52:00*linuxstb tries to justify this conversation by suggesting a Rockbox port
22:52:17 Quit homielowe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:52:32JdGordon250 MHz 8-way multithreaded RISC processor
22:52:36Zagorafaik it's fully documented. but the device has no storage, it's network based. so a rockbox port isn't quite the same as on normal daps.
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22:52:36lostlogiclinuxstb: that was my first thought... but it alreasy supports most of our formats ...
22:52:45amiconnlinuxstb: Btw, I verified my idea for a workaround to the occasional lcd freezes
22:52:46JdGordonjust what jhMikeS needs to break the kernel code again :D
22:52:47lostlogicit's got 16m flash
22:53:11amiconnIt's indeed just the bcm ignoring an update, so that our query-for-finish loop never ends
22:53:17 Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (
22:53:19JdGordonso no internal storage fr music?
22:53:25 Join exius_ [0] (
22:53:34ZagorJdGordon: no, it's a network player
22:53:43linuxstbamiconn: I never experienced that, but then I don't use my 5g any more...
22:53:53lostlogichey, with the new buffering API, we could surely treat 802.11 like a hard disk :)
22:53:57amiconnI made it exit that loop after a second and simply go on with the next update for a test, additionally bringing up the backlight when it happens, so I'll notice
22:54:22preglowZagor: heard you had some nice progress with usb, congrats
22:54:27amiconnlinuxstb: It only happens if a lot of screen updates are going on, e.g. if you have peakmeters in the wps
22:54:44crashdwhat about this:
22:54:46amiconnWith peakmetered wps, it'll happen 1..2 times per hour on average
22:54:49Zagorpreglow: well, it's only a small step. but thanks anyway.
22:54:51crashdthat's asking to be hacked with its poor support for formats
22:55:01 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:55:48Zagorcrashd: why even buy that if it's bad? get the squeezebox. they do it right.
22:56:07crashdaye, but they are cheaper than the squeeze
22:56:21crashdconsiderably cheaper
22:56:24Zagorya, for a reason...
22:56:28crashdyeah, but
22:56:45crashdthere's no reason that the soundbridge couldn't support other formats and be more featurefull
22:56:48crashdjust look at rockbox! ;)
22:57:51jhMikeSJdGordon: yes, that would be fun to break the kernel code on :)
22:58:20Zagorthe thing with network players is that once they support wav, the server can transcode and send any format to it. heck you could listen to sid tunes on the squeezebox.
22:58:55 Join J3TC- [0] (
22:58:56Zagorbut that requires a hackable server
22:59:05crashdor a hackable device :)
22:59:13crashdanyway, it was just a suggestion, i've gotta get home, been at work way too long
23:02:11 Join Strath [0] (
23:05:11jhMikeSbut first I have to know when libmpeg2 is actually done with a packet so buffering can safely overwrite it. I have a video where buffering ends up clobbering one or more during fill before libmpeg2 is done with it. (ah, but details)
23:05:57 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:08:48scorche|wZagor: come into #rockbox-community so the conversation can continue :)
23:09:41*scorche|w glares at other devs who miss out on the fun in community ;)
23:10:22 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
23:12:28 Quit crashd (Remote closed the connection)
23:13:14*jhMikeS avoids #community to avoid spilling brain contents. Much better noone sees those. ;)
23:13:20 Quit midgey ()
23:18:03scorche|wit cant be worse than the ones spouted by the abi folks in there ;)
23:18:10scorche|wwhoops... /clear >_>
23:18:40 Part exius_
23:18:49Bagdercp irc.log proof/
23:19:26scorche|wwe need some more devs in there!
23:19:41linuxstbI would think we need more devs in here...
23:19:50scorche|wwell, both...
23:20:01linuxstbThere's been no commits for almost 40 minutes ;)
23:20:08*scorche|w gasps
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23:44:51 Part safetydan
23:45:32justlisteninany news on e200 usb progress?
23:45:45 Join safetydan [0] (n=safetyda@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
23:46:03Zagorjustlistenin: minor progress, nothing really interesting
23:47:03justlisteninah, ok. Thanks. Can't wait for it, but even with the database refresh everytime you add/remove music, its still better than OF :D
23:50:18bertrikjustlistenin: do you know that the database refresh can be suppressed by a recent bootloader?
23:51:03justlistenini did not, I actually JUST downloaded the bootloader and installed it a few seconds ago. I haven't even unplugged my sansa yet because I am also adding a few themes
23:51:15justlisteninthat is an awesome thing to know, thank you!
23:51:41Zagorbertrik: what information do you need to find the same bits for c200?
23:51:55amiconnZagor: That method won't work on c200
23:52:23amiconnc200 doesn't reboot after usb disconnect, it goes straight back into the of, so our bootloader can't intercept
23:52:32pixelmaas stated in the commit message - I helped barrywardell to test it on c200
23:53:00pixelmaZagor: more motivation for you to work on usb ;)
23:53:06 Quit crashd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:53:23 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (
23:53:23Bagdergood thinking, we don't want zagor to relax too much! ;-)
23:54:04justlisteninno naps? :(
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23:56:38webguest46what do i use to edit the rockbox bootloader. I want it so i can boot more than one .mi4 file. Like hold down the center button to load firmware.
23:57:01DerPapsta text editor
23:57:11DerPapstgcc and a clue
23:58:09webguest46is there direction somewhere that i could follow
23:59:00 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC")

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