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#rockbox log for 2007-10-31

00:00:55webguest46which one of the links is it?
00:01:23Bagderdepends on what you need to know, ie where you're at now
00:02:51webguest46well, i want to change the bootloader to be able to load different firmwares. Like center button for firmware.mi4 and up for anoterfirmware.mi4. Do you understand this?
00:03:08Bagderwe do, I doubt you do
00:03:33Bagderget the code, edit it, compile it, install it, use it
00:03:44justlisteninGoodluck with bootloader guy and thanks for the info on the sansa usb. See yall later and as always, good work on all of it and thank you for all your work!
00:03:50 Join kubrick [0] (n=repulse@unaffiliated/funky)
00:04:07safetydangood lord... I had no idea #rockbox-community was so... offtopic
00:04:08 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:05:06n1ssafetydan: the only thing that's offtopic in there is actual rockbox talk ;)
00:05:43safetydann1s, so true
00:06:12BigBambisafetydan: It isn't normally this fractious
00:07:49safetydananyway, if someone with an iPod Video has some time, could they take a look at FS #7440? I'd really like to get that committed, but I can't test it.
00:08:34 Join TradeJack [0] (
00:10:27webguest46i opened it in a text editor but when i open the file, it is all symbols and other things. Can someone give me an exact link to the directions
00:10:28 Quit justlistenin ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:11:01Bagderwebguest46: 1 get the code, 2 edit it, 3 compile it, 4 install it, 5 use it
00:11:10Bagderdid you get the code?
00:11:17webguest46where do i get it
00:11:19Bagderdid you install a dev environment?
00:11:53PaulJamwebguest46: can you program in C?
00:11:55Bagderthose docs pages describe all those steps
00:12:44webguest46PaulJam: no Badger: i'll look at all of them
00:13:25Bagderyou need to do your requested changes by editing C code, you know that right?
00:13:30 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
00:13:47PaulJamwebguest46: you need to modify rockbox' sourcecode which is written in C, so a basic knowledge of that would be good.
00:14:51n1s6 ..., 7 profit!
00:16:45 Join Soap_ [0] (
00:16:47amiconnsafetydan: I'll do a quick check. Btw, I think the code in wm8758.c can be simplified a bit further by using a register shadow variable
00:17:42amiconnsafetydan: Umm, failed hunk in playback.c
00:18:45amiconnProbably easy to fix... /me looks
00:18:50 Join bluebrother [0] (i=KQMq7E9p@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
00:19:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:19:14safetydanamiconn, darn it. Actually I think that last patch is stuffed. It's got conflict markers in the lang file changes.
00:19:28 Quit n1s ()
00:20:03amiconnumm, true
00:20:07*amiconn reverts patch
00:20:40safetydanamiconn, do you have an example of a register shadow variable?
00:21:18amiconnJust store what you wrote to the wm last time, and use &~ and | to mask in the new setting
00:21:21bertriksafetydan: I saw some in the as3514.c code
00:21:38amiconnThis way you don't need 2 variables per register to store the current settings
00:21:42webguest46I want to use the multibl for my sansa e200r. I have the bootloader patched and i am dual-booting with rockbox. Is there any way to get this to work on mine? Link:
00:21:47safetydanamiconn, ah right
00:22:24BigBambiCould an op briefly pop into community please?
00:24:17Lloreanwebguest46: Contact whoever created it, we don't provide support for other peoples' software.
00:29:05 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:30:29 Quit _pill (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:30:58 Join Zagor [0] (
00:32:09 Quit webguest46 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:33:28 Join pill [0] (
00:33:51 Quit bertrik ("bye")
00:34:00 Quit qweru (Remote closed the connection)
00:34:14Zagor[sda] 2006529 512-byte hardware sectors (1027 MB)
00:34:27Zagorbetter :)
00:35:02linuxstbThat looks like progress ;)
00:35:17linuxstbAssuming you didn't just type it...
00:36:51PaulJamso how far are we from mouse support for doom on h300?
00:37:10preglowhow good news? :>
00:37:18ZagorPaulJam: hehe. a bit.
00:37:36 Quit ender` (" There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy")
00:39:55preglowZagor: so, you'd say your initial time estimate on this thing was a bit off, then? :P
00:40:14Zagorhaha, yeah a tiny bit...
00:41:57jhMikeSpreglow: I take it the little kernel thingy was "a flyspray task for [me]"?
00:41:59ZagorI thought the usb and mass-storage protocols would be the hard parts, since we got docs for the controller. i was very wrong.
00:42:52 Quit syn4pse ("Time wasted on IRC: 3 hours 30 minutes 9 seconds")
00:43:46bluebrotherZagor: nice to see the progress. Too bad I'll be offline for some unknown period starting tomorrow :(
00:44:45Zagorwell it's not like i will be committing this tomorrow
00:46:11preglowjhMikeS: yeap
00:46:17preglowjhMikeS: btw, you're familiar with recording codecs, yea?
00:50:29 Quit Daniel_S ("CGI:IRC")
00:51:16 Quit pill ("changing servers")
00:51:17jhMikeSpreglow: we have recording? :P
00:51:34preglowjhMikeS: well, encoder codecs
00:51:42preglowencoders :>
00:51:43 Join pill [0] (
00:51:46*jhMikeS just kids of course
00:51:55preglowjhMikeS: it shouldn't too hard to make an encoder plugin, should it? loading encoders ala test_codec
00:52:15jhMikeSno. just do as pcm_record.c does
00:52:19preglowit's kind of silly having both mp3_encoder.c and mp3_enc.c
00:52:26preglowmp3_encoder doesn't even work as well as mp3_enc
00:52:28jhMikeSThey need moderately more init though
00:52:42 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:53:08preglowjhMikeS: hmm, would modifying the core to pass data from disk to encoders need much changing?
00:53:08jhMikeSI guess that was from before codec recording?
00:53:31jhMikeSwhy mod the core?
00:53:42preglowjust thinking it'd be silly to duplicate all the code again
00:54:03preglowall the encoder plugin handling code would be pretty much duplicated in the encoder plug
00:54:22jhMikeSto transcode? you certainly don't need to duplicate everything. I did put it together so you could just implement the intefaces.
00:54:56jhMikeSjust spit pcm samples at it
00:55:22jhMikeSand give it an output. most of the code is for realtime handling of them.
00:56:02 Quit roolku ()
00:56:17preglowi'm also starting to toy a bit with the idea of speex encoding
00:56:31 Quit obo ("bye")
00:56:35preglowthat'll mean tons of asm
00:56:55LloreanYou'd think speex would be designed for just this sort of situation.
00:57:59preglowwell, it is
00:58:08LloreanJust, not enough for our purposes?
00:58:25preglowencoders aren't cheap, they all need optimizing
00:58:39jhMikeSpreglow: realtime speex recording? :)
00:58:47preglowjhMikeS: that would be the thing, yes
00:58:55LloreanI certainly wouldn't mind realtime some-sort-of-voice-codec recording.
00:59:15preglowi think coldfire should be able to do wb recording with a ton of asm
00:59:15LloreanDoes the Sansa have working recording yet?
00:59:27preglowportalplayer can do nb encoding
00:59:37preglowgigabeat, uwb, heh
01:00:00preglowbut it'll need a fair deal of asm and some float -> fixed point
01:00:21linuxstbThe gigabeat can't record though...
01:00:32Lloreanlinuxstb: Yet. :-P
01:00:39jhMikeSbtw, you really just need to implement the callbacks implemented by pcm_record.c in a transcode plugin but much more simply
01:00:54LloreanI'm sure one day, in the far future, someone will implement it via the USB hosting.
01:02:23markunLlorean: or with the i2s signals on the dock connector
01:02:24jhMikeScould have it in short order on the SW side of things.
01:05:26*preglow goes to bed
01:06:33 Quit Zagor ("bed time")
01:11:43 Quit midgey ()
01:15:26 Quit bluebrother ("nite")
01:17:06 Quit PaulJam (".")
01:21:11 Join midgey [0] (
01:23:16 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
01:23:22 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
01:23:53 Join atsea-39 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-40174253f69b664a)
01:33:14 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
01:35:20DerPapst'nite all
01:35:22 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!")
01:36:15 Join Ebert [0] (
01:43:31amiconnjhMikeS: Hmm, I just found the timeout api in kernel.c - is this dualcore safe?
01:44:26 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
01:44:43 Part TradeJack
01:46:55amiconnjhMikeS: I noticed that it's currently used on e200 and c200...
01:47:25amiconnMight be a nice solution for the bcm update handling on ipod video
01:48:46jhMikeSamiconn: it's not yet and always runs on the tick. some corelock stuff would make it so.
01:49:11jhMikeSit's used as the SD insert debouncer
01:51:45 Join J3TC- [0] (
01:51:49amiconnAlways running on the tick is a non-issue. But I need to make sure that I don't end up writing to the bcm from both cores at once, 'cause that might confuse it ;)
01:52:39amiconnI can't use mutexes here, 'cause an isr function must never lock
01:52:58amiconnI would need some kind of asymmetrical mutex
01:53:40amiconnThe normal update would block only in the unlikely case of being called while the isr function is halfway through
01:53:48jhMikeSuse the spinlock with set_irq_level around it or just the corelock
01:54:08amiconn(can only ever happen if lcd_update() is called from the COP, which is unlikely by itself)
01:54:42amiconnBut the isr function must never lock - it would have to simply return if the lock is 'closed'
01:54:53jhMikeSif no task switch is desired. spinlock with without task switch is the best bet. no set_irq_level is need if it's not dual-use
01:55:25jhMikeSuse corelock_try_lock
01:55:36amiconnIt's not two threads locking. It's one thread (whichever that is - most of the time main), and a 'tick' task
01:56:34jhMikeSqueues handle this through set_irq_level(HIGHEST_IRQ_LEVEL), corelock_lock(), corelock_unlock(), set_irq_level(oldlevel)
01:56:47amiconnThe thread could switch tasks while waiting, but that's not necessary. The isr function will be rather short & fast
01:58:15jhMikeSthe event queue construct should be what's needed for that
01:58:35jhMikeSwithout blocking calls of course
02:01:46 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:02:08amiconnHrrrmmm. If only I would understand this core locking business :(
02:02:22 Join J3TC- [0] (
02:03:04jhMikeSkeep one core spinning while the other core completes the section and unlocks. the sections are very short.
02:03:39amiconnThere are now mutexes, spinlocks, semaphores, and events. And the corelock itself
02:03:53amiconnThere used to be only _really_ simple mutexes.... :\
02:04:41jhMikeSthey're still simple in single core once preprocessed. I guess look at the sim version.
02:06:07 Quit kubrick ("leaving")
02:11:40 Quit pill (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:18:39 Part pixelma
02:19:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:19:26 Join flacoste [0] (i=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste)
02:19:52flacostehi anyone here to help me with the bootloader install on a Sansa E280?
02:20:19flacostesanspatcher says that it doesn't recognise any E200 or C200
02:25:57 Join toffe82 [0] (
02:28:26krazykitflacoste, 1) are you sure it's not an e280r (has rhapsody in the menu) and 2) is it in MSC mode?
02:28:58flacostekrazykit: it is not a e280r and yes it is in MSC mode
02:29:13flacostekrazykit: is it possible that the partition type isn't right
02:29:24flacosteI found the following:
02:29:30flacosteis this still an issue?
02:30:48krazykitnot sure, to be honest.
02:30:57flacosteprobably not anyway
02:31:10flacostei checked using fdisk and the first partition is indeed W95 FAT32
02:31:20flacosteand the other one is OS/2 hidden C: driver
02:31:36krazykitthat sounds about right.
02:31:54flacosteanything thing that I can try with sanpatcher to give more debug info?
02:32:42krazykitsansapatcher doesn't appear to have a verbose object
02:32:47flacostehmm, weird
02:32:54flacosteit now seems to work?
02:33:08flacostei just run sansapatcher −−list and it recognises the device
02:34:14krazykitbut just running it does not work, or does it?
02:34:42flacostewell, it says that it installed succesfully
02:34:57flacostebut on reboot i still boot in the original Sansa OS
02:35:52 Part Strath
02:35:54krazykittry having sansapatcher uninstall the rockbox bootloader, then reinstall it
02:36:07krazykitand when it reboots, you DO have the usb cable out, right?
02:36:20flacostei did
02:36:26flacostei uninstalled
02:36:36flacosteshould I unplug or reboot after uninstallation?
02:36:40flacostebefore reinstalling I mean
02:36:57rasherflacoste: Did you install Rockbox itself? (downloading and unzipping
02:36:57flacostethe device screen still says 'Connected'
02:37:46flacosterasher: i think i did
02:38:08rasherflacoste: If you didn't, the bootloader will load the sansa firmware.
02:38:10flacosterasher: but on which partition does it go?
02:38:22flacosterasher: i installed it on the Sansa data partition
02:38:24rasherflacoste: The one that's visible in explorer. The larger one
02:38:34flacostethe one with PICTURES, videos and all
02:39:08flacoste$ ls /media/Sansa\ e280/.rockbox/
02:39:19flacostei then get backdrops, codecs...
02:39:23flacosteso I guess that's ok
02:39:36rasherLooks correct
02:39:43*flacoste will now try reinstalling the bootloader
02:40:15flacostehow long should I wait before rebooting?
02:40:22flacostethe screen still says 'Writing'
02:40:31krazykitas long as you unmount it, it's fine
02:41:40flacosteseems to have worked this time!!!
02:41:45flacostethanks a lot for the hand holding!
02:42:07 Join a11313 [0] (
02:42:24a11313hello everyone
02:42:29flacosteanyone of you knows if the USB issue is going to be fixed?
02:42:45krazykitflacoste, it's being worked on.
02:43:28 Nick lukaswayne9 is now known as lt (
02:43:38a11313are all sansa e200 mp3 players supported by rockbox, particularly the 8gig one?
02:43:47 Nick lt is now known as lt_smooth420 (
02:44:01flacostea11313: i just installed it on an e280!
02:44:04krazykita11313, yes, "e200" refers to the whole line of e2x0 players
02:44:56a11313okay, just making sure the newer one would be like the second/third gene ipod nanos
02:45:37a11313also, is there a toolchain available for compiling rockbox for the sansa e2x0's?
02:45:50scorchewe use arm-elf-gcc
02:46:12a11313okay, think I got that toolchain already for ipodlinux binaries, so that's good news for me :)
02:46:16scorchethe easiest way to install it is to use, which is a script located in our tools directory in svn
02:46:31scorchewell, make sure it is the version we recommend to use
02:46:39Lloreana11313: We recommend a very specific version, and I believe iPodLinux compiles on a much, much older version.
02:46:41rashera11313: No. ipodlinux uses an ancient version of gcc I believe. Be sure to check that.
02:47:02a11313hehe alright, that works for me too
02:49:32 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
02:51:45 Join homielowe [0] (
03:20:52LloreanjhMikeS: I really don't like the idea of you just saying "I'll revert it afterward". The patch has been in the tracker for quite some time, and seems well liked by all but a few...
03:22:04*Llorean wishes people would've just tried using that keymap for a month, as he suggested, rather than rejecting it outright.
03:23:48 Quit RoC_MasterMind ("Leaving")
03:24:48LloreanI don't want to start a reversion war, but I loathe the existing map, irregardless of whether or not it's similar to other targets. It lumps "Stop" on the Play/Pause button on a target that has far more than enough buttons to give it one of its own, puts the menu on the Power button meaning if you press "Menu" for a little too long on accident you shut down, and makes the context menu harder than necessary to use by keeping it off Select.
03:24:56jhMikeSLlorean: Just poking you. :) I also think I said "change".
03:27:15LloreanAnyway, off to dinner. I'm not committing 'till Saturday, and I'm still open to other ideas for a replacement keymap that addresses problems. I picked one like the other targets mostly because it covered those (which I think is kinda how the original keymap came about: it works) but if another one makes it easier to use too, I wouldn't mind.
03:27:39jhMikeSplay/pause/stop on one button is very consistent with other such devices I think. The only confusion on e200 I experienced was the use of short press for the context menu instead of long.
03:27:52jhMikeSThat one still gets me.
03:27:59LloreanMany of my targets have a short press for stop
03:28:04LloreanIn fact, the only two that don't are the e200 and the iPod
03:28:07LloreanThe iPod with very good reason
03:28:19*Llorean delays dinner slightly
03:28:30 Join tarsius [0] (i=a807e59b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:28:47jhMikeSx5 uses the a long play for stop. short for pause. short to play if stopped.
03:29:09karashataH10 uses long play to stop as well
03:29:24LloreanThe stop button is Power on H100, and the power is stop on Gigabeat. On the archos "Off" is stop
03:29:40jhMikeSyes. I knew what to do with all those because of that consistency.
03:29:50LloreanThe only ones that don't use Off and Stop on the same button are ones where we have two few buttons, or "off" or "stop" doesn't have a unique button, I think
03:30:03Lloreantoo, rather than two
03:30:05tarsiushello. i'm setting up a Rockbox dev environment in cygwin and i'm attempting to compile usbutils so I can run "lsusb"
03:30:05jhMikeSOn h100 it's also explicitly a stop button
03:30:08alienbiker99isnt stop
03:30:15alienbiker99nevermind, jhMikeS just said it
03:30:22LloreanjhMikeS: Yes, and on the Gigabeat and Archos it's explicitly a Power or Off button
03:30:43LloreanIt seems a rather logical marriage, though.
03:30:51jhMikeSGigabeat make no sense to me :). Thankfully the labels aren't readily readable.
03:30:55LloreanEspecially since we use "Off" or "Stop" to cancel in many screens
03:31:16tarsiusis there a difference between the way gcc in cygwin deals with the include path versus a gcc in a true linux environment?
03:31:48LloreanAlso, assuming for the sake of argument "Menu" was definitely not going to be on the power button, what's the harm in putting stop on its own button?
03:31:51jhMikeSThe e200 recording screen is consistent with x5 layout. Other than a scrollwheel, e200 and x5 are pretty much identical button wise. (x5 has a rec button though).
03:32:20jhMikeSOh, right e200 has a rec button (but I forget it's there most of the time)
03:32:24rasherAs does the e200
03:33:11krazykittarsius, no, your shell should work the same way in cygwin as in native linux
03:33:27LloreanBut really, I don't see how the current map is "better" than my proposed one, unless you feel the problems I've cited with it don't matter. And honestly, you're welcome to, but I think that they can all be fixed without choosing a "bad" map.
03:33:31rasherIt's really not a terribly convenient button, and I think it should be avoided at all costs to assign any actions to it.
03:33:41jhMikeSI guess I use rec to play solitaire but that's all I seem to use it for
03:33:51tarsiuskrazykit: i ask because I have no INCLUDE or C_INCLUDE_PATH env variables, etc
03:34:15*Llorean thinks the "Power" button is very inconvenient for one-handed operation on Sansa, too.
03:34:19jhMikeSIt does record on the rec screen, but so does play but that's a common assignment anyway
03:34:59krazykittarsius, not sure why you'd need them to compile rockbox?
03:35:03tarsiuskrazykit: and the reason I'm trying to figure out where this is stored is because it appears my /usr/include/limits.h has a constant defined that is omitted in some other version of gcc
03:35:06*jhMikeS never had a problem in his "right-handed mode".
03:35:38LloreanjhMikeS: Left handed, the Power button is underneath my thumb and requires a rather sharp bend.
03:35:42krazykitjhMikeS, it's kind of inconvenient left-handed though
03:35:57jhMikeSe200 is kinda bad left handed. the thumb strains to reach "Menu"/Power then
03:36:15tarsiuskrazykit: OH, to clarify... I'm not trying to cross-compile... I need a x86 version of lsusb so I can check to see that my Sansa c140 is connected in "recovery mode"
03:36:34LloreanjhMikeS: That's one of the things I addressed with my new button map.
03:36:43jhMikeSI use whatever hand works best on a target.
03:36:44LloreanMenu on "Down" isn't ideal, but it's still nicer.
03:36:58JdGordonI still dont see why we cant make it an option so everyone can be happy
03:36:58krazykittarsius, are you sure usbutils will even compile in cygwin? they might be the place to ask for something like that
03:37:09tarsiuskrazykit: ... as per directions for using the tcctool to upload test firmware to a TCC77x-based device
03:37:26LloreanJdGordon: "No keymap options" isn't my policy, and I'm not going to arbitrarily break that one.
03:37:39jhMikeSMost devices are righty-optimized with the physical layout.
03:37:39krazykitah, see, i'm not really familiar enough with cygwin, as i use linux primarily
03:38:11LloreanjhMikeS: Oddly enough, the only one of mine that physically is rightly oriented is the Archos.
03:38:15tarsiuskrazykit: i will check, but as for now, i've done extensive searching and haven't found out what's wrong. what i could really use is a tip as to how to override the gcc default include path
03:38:30LloreanAll the others are symmetrical enough, and in the case of the Sansa it's the keymap rather than the buttons themselves that really favours righties.
03:38:48krazykittarsius, does specifying INCLUDE="/your/path" gcc not do it?
03:39:12tarsiuskrazykit: ...because if i simply use -I/usr/include, gcc eliminates it "because it's repeated" and keeps the original order
03:39:13jhMikeSyou know, I think buttons are more physically reachable on everything I have using righty-mode.
03:39:44tarsiuskrazykit: i believe i tried that variable as well as many other possibilities... let me try again right now
03:39:51LloreanjhMikeS: Odd, I think the Gigabeat and H100 are much more usable lefty, just because my fingers wrap to the side buttons very nicely
03:39:53jhMikeSnope, jukebox doesn't matter
03:40:47tarsiuskrazykit: it did not work
03:40:56jhMikeSthumb operation is optimized I guess. the rec buttons are often placed to use fingers.
03:41:32jhMikeS3g doesn't matter...but that's apple's hyperergonomics
03:41:54tarsiuskrazykit: thanks anyway for your help
03:42:46*Llorean leaves for real, will read the logs
03:43:25 Join xys [0] (
03:43:32*jhMikeS won't sit here talking to the virtual breeze then :)
03:44:11*JdGordon is still here...!
03:45:08 Quit xys (Connection reset by peer)
03:46:21 Part tarsius
04:01:21 Join Myphton [0] (i=477e0498@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:03:57 Quit Myphton (Client Quit)
04:04:06 Join Myphton [0] (i=477e0498@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:05:06Myphtonhey guys, is there anyone who can help me install the rock box bootloader manually on my iPod Mini?
04:05:27Myphtonthe rbutil wont install the bootloader, v1.0.2
04:07:02 Join ramon8 [0] (i=DontFuCk@
04:08:17Myphtonthanks a lot =)
04:09:00homieloweMyphon: Your welcome ;)
04:10:07Myphtonlol, now i got another problem
04:10:38Myphtonthe ipodpatcher.exe cannot install the bootloader. it cant detect my ipod
04:11:29Myphtonany solution?
04:12:55safetydanMyphton: have you searched the forums?
04:14:55Myphtoni never have any luck in them. i could take another look. is there any way of having the file just being purely the bootloader though? and just install it by putting it in the directory it needs to be in, with in the rockbox directory?
04:17:10krazykitthat isn't how the bootloader works. if ipodpatcher.exe doesn't work, it's better to figure out WHY it isn't working
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04:18:06safetydanMyphton: I'm not familiar with the ipod installation process, but does it require that your ipod be in disk mode?
04:18:06webguest39Hey Guys
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04:24:06Myphtonits in disk mode yes.
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04:28:00Mouser_XHow does Rockbox handle large MP3s? I was listening to a 136 MB (1:56.53) MP3 yesterday, and my Gigabeat died... It was a freshly charged battery that morning. Normally, I can get at *least* 12 hours off of one charge, but yesterday, it lasted about 6 hours...
04:28:18safetydanMouser_X, how recent is your build?
04:28:34LloreanLarge MP3s should be no different than lots of small ones...
04:28:50safetydangenerally it should do the right thing and read in the mp3 as it needs it
04:29:12Mouser_Xsafetydan: It's from shortly after MoB stuff was fixed, so that transitioning between difference codecs worked.
04:29:47Mouser_XI would have tested on a new build, but my laptop no longer has internet access (where the build system is installed).
04:30:03webguest39how do you install the Evil G's build for the themes?
04:30:03LloreanWhy didn't you just download a build?
04:30:29Mouser_XLlorean: I use FS #7331 and 5241
04:30:39Mouser_X(GBS and MOD codecs)
04:30:48LloreanMouser_X: And here's the bit where I remind you that you NEED to be testing with official builds.
04:31:27LloreanEspecially since you'd have been downloading a new build just for testing that bug...
04:32:18Mouser_XI suppose so...
04:32:22safetydanMouser_X, exact SVN revisions are needed since mob is actively under development
04:32:27Lloreanwebguest39: See the "unsupported builds" section of the forum. And remember, they're not supported.
04:33:32webguest39Ok. its unsupported? that means that it might mess my ipod up?
04:34:11LloreanIt just means "we don't provide support for it."
04:34:14LloreanIt's not our software.
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04:34:48Mouser_Xsafetydan: Rockbox (the one currently on my Gigabeat) says "Version: r15330m-071027"
04:35:11Mouser_XHowever, I will probably download a new build (unpatched), and try it again tomarrow.
04:35:28Mouser_X(I have 2 more 130+ MB MP3s I'd like to go through.)
04:35:31webguest39Oh ok thank you Llorean. Your like the only person that helps me. Thats Exactly why i love you.
04:36:16psycho_maniacwhat does the M mean? i have that also on my patched build. just curious
04:36:25krazykitit means Modified
04:37:19*karashata has seen M occasionally show up on the official builds too
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04:37:38Mouser_XI've never bothered looking.
04:38:08psycho_maniaci dont notice much either.
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04:38:48webguest39Are the unoffical builds only for the 5g?
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04:41:14psycho_maniacunofficial builds are for anyplayer you want as you can make them yourself
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04:42:50webguest39Oh. But i dont really know how to make them myself. I have a 80 gig ipod vid 5.5g. will one of the builds work? yes im a newb. thats is why im asking all these questions
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04:43:41safetydanMouser_X, so it's 50 changes behind the latest then
04:44:37psycho_maniacany build will work if its made for your player. people make them on the rockbox forums
04:44:54Mouser_XGuess so. I've just put the newest one on right now.
04:45:48safetydanMouser_X: there's been several buffer related fixes since the build you were using
04:46:33Mouser_XYes, I noticed. Hopefully they make a difference for tomorrow.
04:47:32webguest39oh ok thank you. im looking at a build in the forums. its the evilg fusion build. but it says its 60 gig. can i still use it on my ipod? and its my generation
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07:11:33lostlogicgah, I hate to admit this to myself because I've been telling people for a long time that ogg q7 or q8 is hard to distinguish from lossless... but I can definitely distinguish :(
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07:14:49LloreanIs it just on a specific track though?
07:15:06LloreanWith some samples, it can be really easy to distinguish.
07:16:03*scorche wonders why lostlogic isnt in -community ;)
07:18:33lostlogicLlorean: it was the intro to a Three Days Grace that I compared because it has a hard and transient-ful sound to it
07:18:50lostlogicit got boomy and washed out in the lossy version
07:19:07lostlogicscorche: my attention is limitted enough ;)
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07:43:48xyshi, I've noticed that during mp3 playback, my 5g ipod takes less energy to run compared to ogg files. is this because of the codecs?
07:44:43lostlogicxys: in short, yes
07:45:10lostlogichow are you comparing energy?
07:45:12lostlogicbattery life?
07:45:30lostlogicboth file size and decoding cpu cycles will impact total battery performance on a file
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07:47:30xysI talked to people from ipodlinux today and found out that the second processor is used to handle all the DMA stuff so even if we got two cores running, it wouldn't help the battery life. Is this also true for rockbox?
07:48:27lostlogicas far as I know, we only use the second core in mpegplayer at this point. from what amiconn and others have told me though, we also would not see a big change in battery life from using it more.
07:50:21xysso I guess lengthening the ipod's battery life depends on how the hard drive gets handled now
07:50:40LloreanThat's a rather strange leap.
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07:51:42amiconnlostlogic: It would help a bit, but the real power suckers are those I mentioned
07:52:06amiconnUsing both cores is of course still desirable
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07:58:18xysI also saw something about a power management unit (Philips PCF50607 PMU), but is that just for connecting between the board and the battery?
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08:23:02Dolphin91I'm setting up a separate noob help site, and I'm testing apache server, tell me if works.
08:23:34*JdGordon thinks Dolphin91 is lost
08:23:41*Mouser_X agrees.
08:24:00Mouser_XThis is *not* #apache-test
08:24:13Mouser_XThis is #rockbox.
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08:24:30Mouser_X*minus "."
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10:15:40pondlifeNico_P: When you get in, you might want to commit
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10:27:22Bagderthe c200 version is downloaded roughly as much as the h10
10:27:46Bagderand roughly has much as the h120
10:27:52Bagderas much
10:28:03Bagder2700-2800 times so far in october
10:29:23Bagderboth ipod video versions => 32000 times
10:29:53pondlifeCould you put running stats on the site somewhere?
10:30:03pondlifePast 30 days total maybe?
10:30:35Bagderhm, yes that would be cool but will take some scripting
10:30:55linuxstbWhich downloads are these - the current builds?
10:31:10Bagderyes, current only, based on logs
10:32:12JRoTbadger what are the satts for the sansa E series
10:32:26linuxstbCan you tell how many were via rbutil?
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10:33:43Bagdergood question
10:35:51BagderI can't see any user-agent in the logs that seems to indicate rbutil
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10:38:12amiconnImho it might also be interesting to see total downloads per target, split into release + daily + current
10:39:04BagderI don't have daily logs since they're spread out on three servers I don't admin myself
10:40:00Bagderrockbox 2.5 for the player: 246 times
10:40:12Bagderfor the recorder: 137
10:40:28amiconnHmm, and current builds for those?
10:40:33Bagderthe installer 1914 times
10:40:50*amiconn thinks we should remove the 2.5 release
10:41:09Bagdercurrent player 800 downloads
10:41:23Bagdercurrent recorder 670 + recorder8mb 350
10:41:35amiconnIt's very outdated compared to current, has quite a number of known bugs etc
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10:45:34safetydan_If I haven't posted this before, this is an awesome collection bit twiddling hacks
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12:05:53pondlifeHmm, who's Alessio Lenzi on IRC?
12:06:32pondlifeThat last commit seems rather arbitrary to me, I'd like to know the logic behind it.
12:06:56pondlifeI mean the reordering of the info screen.
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12:14:22pixelmaI doubt that he ever was around here, can't remember someone (or some nick) I could relate to him at least
12:14:55linuxstbNor me... His SVN username is lenzone10 and I don't recognise that.
12:15:41pondlifeNot a biggie, but I would like to understand why the new order is better
12:16:10pondlifeI preferred it with version at the top for some reason
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12:16:41pixelmahaven't updated so far, what is now on top?
12:18:11linuxstbIs it just that blind users want an easy way to hear the battery status?
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12:19:51pondlifeWell that saves them 3 keypresses for that...
12:20:20Zagorhe was approved jun 6 for updating the italian lang file
12:20:27preglowlenzi is the italian lang file maintainer
12:21:19Zagorreordering menus without discussion is a bit outside that, I'd say
12:24:03preglowany ui changes should be discussed unless you're clearly some kind of ui genious :>
12:24:19pixelmayeah, it surprised me that he committed something else and that he didn't ask about the reordering (or posted a patch to the tracker) before - or even showed up in IRC
12:24:55pondlifeOn another topic, could the MajorChanges wiki be linked from the home page again, or was that removed deliberately?
12:25:11pondlife(or is it there, and I missed it?)
12:26:09Zagorno it's not there. I'll add a link somewhere near the "project news" box
12:26:46pondlifeMaybe a little link, like the "Last four weeks" one?
12:27:31pondlifeAlthough I think I'd prefer it to the "news" anyway...
12:28:12Zagoryeah maybe we should replace the news box with content from MajorChanges.
12:28:13*pondlife is stirring up trouble everywhere today...
12:28:39pondlifeThey should be merged really
12:29:10rasherZagor: it's not terribly difficult to parse the raw MajorChanges page. I do it for">
12:31:22markunZagor: ptw419 is planning to read the OTG registers, but needs to charge his player first
12:31:29markun(Gigabeat S)
12:31:36Zagorah, nice!
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12:42:54linuxstbSpeaking of the info screen, I'm just looking at it on my Gigabeat, and the time is displayed in the info screen, but the time isn't set - it's −−:−− in the status bar...
12:43:17linuxstbIt also only updates when something else causes a screen refresh, not every second as I would expect.
12:44:28pixelmaif I remember correctly there were a few reports (in the forums) of time vanishing in the statusbar on Gigabeats
12:45:08pondlifeI've seen that on my H340
12:45:36pondlifeI may have been testing the wake-up alarm patch at the time
12:45:44pondlifeBut it never recurred.
12:46:05linuxstbI'm not complaining that it's −−:−− in the status bar, but that it's shown in the info screen - the Gigabeat loses time whenever you power-cycle with the battery switch, and I never bother to reset it.
12:46:51linuxstbIt seems the status bar code calls valid_time(), and displays −−:−− if invalid, but the info screen doesn't.
12:47:19pondlifeI assumed it was a flat battery issue, but maybe it's a bug in the H300 wake-up alarm patch...
12:47:38markunlinuxstb: I've also seen the time go to −−:−− without a power-cycle
12:47:57markunbut don't know what triggered it
12:47:58pondlifemarkun: Which target?
12:48:03markunGigabeat F40
12:49:03amiconni2c problems, perhaps
12:49:26linuxstbOn yet another subject, does anyone agree that it seems odd for the credits screen to be hidden behind "Version" in the system menu? Couldn't we just rename "Version" to "Credits"?
12:50:55pondlifeWhy is version in two places...?
12:51:05pondlifeInfo + Version/Credits
12:51:23pondlifeRockbox Info could be renamed System Info, mayeb
12:51:31linuxstbI was thinking the same. I would be happy to remove the splash screen from the credits.
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12:52:01pondlifeDoes credits need to be in the menu? Why not just as a plugin?
12:52:13linuxstbI think it deserves a menu item.
12:52:52pondlifeLlorean: Did you make any progress on the menu revision project?
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12:53:39pondlifeI get annoyed by the two "System" entries (in main and General Settings)...
12:53:54pondlifeOnly very mildly annoyed, I should add...
12:54:19linuxstbBTW, now that the info screen is a list, could the fsinfo update only be made if you press select on the Free: line?
12:54:37pondlifeGood idea. Not with RIGHT at all
12:54:50linuxstbOr maybe made a more obvious feature elsewhere...
12:55:04pondlifeIn a plugin?
12:55:06linuxstbIt feels like an easter egg at the moment...
12:55:52pondlifeIf we could split the debug menu into "Software" and "Hardware" info, then perhaps the hardware stuff could all go into a plugin and out of the core?
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12:57:12pondlifeThat wouldn't need the plugin API bloating, hopefully.
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12:59:33pondlifeWhat's the H300 button for USB charge (and not connect)? Used to be REC, didn't it?
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13:16:06amiconnAnd hardware debug outside the core doesn't make sense imo
13:19:12preglowwhy not?
13:19:34pondlifeI was thinking it might be a sensible way to save binsize, but I suppose you need a working plugin loader first.
13:19:47pondlifeIt's hardly used often by most users.
13:20:12preglowthis is a pure developer thing, of no use to users, as opposed to the other stuff in the debug menu
13:20:19preglowso i see no point in putting it in the core
13:20:24amiconnIf something isn't working and you need the debug stuff, it is very possible that disk loading doesn't work, i.e. plugins can't be loaded
13:21:29preglowyou're not going to start probing io pins when something doesn't work
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13:21:42preglowthis seems like an re thing to me
13:21:46amiconnAnd it's already useful when trying to narrow down why something doesn't work on a particular box owned by a user
13:22:11preglowamiconn: i'm not saying our debug screen stuff should go in a plugin, but this gpio tweaking thing is a ok as a plug, i think
13:22:17amiconnI mean especially ports debug
13:22:37preglowit doesn't work for the kind of debugging we want users to do anyway
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13:53:00Zagorhmm.. my build is now freezing on boot while showing the logo, before any of my code ever runs. anyone got suggestions what to look for?
13:54:10J3TC-What patches did you put?
13:54:40Zagorno patches, only my own usb work
14:01:53pixelmawould wild guessing do you any good?
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14:11:28preglowZagor: well, if your code is the only difference...
14:11:36preglowmy builds certainly aren't freezing
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14:14:38JdGordonamiconn: i've started the info list thing twice now but keep stopping for some reason... ill hopefully have it done tomorow... (might need some nagging actually..)
14:18:58Zagorpixelma: it's boring to guess alone :)
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14:19:47*pondlife nags JdGordon
14:19:58pondlifeNot that I know what you're doing... :)
14:25:39pixelmaZagor: maybe it's some check if it should reboot to OF? And in case it currently freezes on an SVN build for you too, I got another guess...
14:27:31Zagorthanks for guessing with me :) but I grabbed my senses and stared adding lcd_puts() in the boot, so I've found it now. it turns out my usb_core_exit was called in the boot.
14:29:07pixelmaheh! Glad you found it :)
14:31:34Zagorouch! kernel: BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000000
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14:42:10Nico_Ppondlife: I'm about to commit FS #8053
14:42:27Nico_Plooks all good to me
14:42:42pondlifeWhat was last_track used for before MoB?
14:42:54Nico_Papprently, nothing
14:42:55pondlifeI thought it might have been misplaced by accident
14:43:00pondlifeAh, ok
14:43:07Nico_PI didn't touch that code with MoB
14:43:21pondlifeNice when the code gets readable enough to spot these things :)
14:44:02JdGordonNico_P: is it using the ata callbacks to rebuffer?
14:44:29Nico_PJdGordon: what is? this commit isn't the same thing if that's what you're asking
14:44:49JdGordonnot that commit
14:46:18Nico_PJdGordon: no, it's not
14:46:27JdGordon... it should
14:46:39JdGordonits not because of the ata_is_Active() problem with flash tagrtes?
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14:47:04Nico_Pyeah there was a problem because of that, but I fixed it
14:47:20Nico_Pwhat do the ata idle callbacks do on flash targets?
14:47:42JdGordonthey work.. but the ata_is_Active() call is always false
14:47:52amiconnpondlife: last_track was used for the old tagdb, which was replaced by Slasheri's tagcache later on
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14:58:02pondlifeNico_P: Looks like is only a problem on flash-based players.
14:58:39Nico_Pyeah, problem is I don't have one :(
14:58:57pondlifePerhaps you shouldn't be checking ata_is_active() at all on them? Or maybe it should spoof and return true?
14:59:20pondlifei.e. no cost of spinup means treat it as always active
14:59:21Nico_PI've changed that
14:59:26pondlifeAh, ok
15:00:13Nico_Pit's still there but there's another check
15:00:38pondlifeDoes this codec change fall into the Q_BUFFER_HANDLE case?
15:00:59Nico_PI think so
15:01:51Nico_Pmaybe a sim could be made to behave the same...
15:02:21pondlifeYep, change your #define to be 0, not 1
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15:02:50Nico_Pis that he only relevant difference between flash and HDD?
15:03:12pondlifeIn buffering.c, I can't see anything else....
15:03:15fuomeZagor: I'd say it's clearly the crappy kernel code. Not being able to handle such a simple thing as NULL :-)))
15:03:27preglowgreen delta \o/
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15:04:05preglowNico_P: btw, how is album art going? any work?
15:04:08Nico_Ppondlife: playing an OGG from a different dir just worked
15:04:22Nico_Ppreglow: not yet. I plan on doing cuesheet before
15:04:24LinusNpreglow: what is the status of speex nowadays regarding performance?
15:04:40Nico_Pand before that I wan to bring MoB bugs down to a minimum
15:05:00preglowLinusN: depends on target, it's faster on coldfire than on arm. right now my test track decodes at 410++% realtime, 32khz, 40~ kbps
15:05:24*Nico_P tries a sansa sim
15:05:25LinusNpreglow: any chance of running it with minimal iram usage?
15:05:30preglowNico_P: all very understandable :P
15:05:35amiconnpondlife: ata_disk_is_active() works correctly on Ondio (but atm that's not relevant to MoB)
15:05:35preglowLinusN: it already uses minimal iram
15:05:45LinusNi.e as a static voice codec to avoid codec swapping
15:06:00amiconnAnyway, no app layer code should check that directly, but rather use the ata callbacks
15:06:08preglowthat'd require only wb mode (16 khz), which decodes at around 600%+
15:06:22LinusNwould be awfully nice
15:06:29preglowlemme see how much iram we'd need to maintain that figure
15:06:40JdGordonamiconn: the problem is with async callbacks.. i.e when the callback signals a thread to use the disk
15:08:10amiconnNico_P: Speaking about MoB bugs - did you see my report regarding playlist position in wps?
15:08:14Nico_Pamiconn: how big do you think the benefit of MoB would be on HWCODEC?
15:08:28Nico_Pamiconn: I don't think so, when was it?
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15:09:44preglowLinusN: it currently uses 11kb iram for all decoder state structs and const data, that can be shaved further down for wb mode only
15:09:48preglowgimme a sec
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15:10:57Nico_Pamiconn: ah, "the playlist position advances too early"?
15:11:10amiconnJust found that you're aware of that bug
15:11:21Nico_PI know about that. I even tried to fix it, but it broke auto change dir
15:12:10Nico_Pthe problem is that we have to call playlist_next at the codec track change time, and not the pcm track change time
15:12:42preglowLinusN: 10kb for all needed decoder states in iram, plus const data, how much do we have for the purpose?
15:12:59LinusNi think we can afford 10k
15:13:40preglowLinusN: it's also need some kb of fast stack, though, but i guess we already have that?
15:14:00LinusNi believe so
15:14:37preglowspeex allocates all temp stuff from stack, even the variably sized bits
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15:14:43LinusNi see
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15:15:14LinusNi think a static speex codec would be a blessing to reduce complexity in playback.c
15:15:25preglowi don't think i disagree, no...
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15:16:41amiconnThere is one problem though: switching to speex for voice will break *all* current voice files for swcodec targets *and* the talk clips
15:16:51LinusNamiconn: so?
15:16:54preglowbig woop, we're in development
15:17:04preglowif we can improve something, we do so
15:17:12jmspeexpreglow: There's actually three options for allocating temp stuff
15:17:23preglowjmspeex: oh, hi! didn't see you here :)
15:17:31jmspeexhi :-)
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15:17:37preglowjmspeex: yeah, but the varsize stack thing is the best for us
15:18:00preglowalloca would work too, but i like variable-size arrays more
15:18:34amiconnLinusN: Big fat warning is due for blind users, plus the tools to generate voice files and clips need to be adapted to use speexenc for swcodec, but continue using lame for hwcodec
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15:18:51jmspeexpreglow: yes of course, C99 are always best −− when you're fortunate enough to have a non-braindead compiler.
15:19:03preglowjmspeex: yep, and we use gcc for absolutely everything
15:19:10preglowjmspeex: that's not saying gcc isn't braindead, of course...
15:19:22LinusNamiconn: of course, but i don't see any real problems with that
15:19:37preglowif we can rid of that nasty codec swapping, we should do it
15:19:45preglowand speex is perfect for a static voice codec, it's small in both code and data
15:19:50preglowalso very fast when optimized
15:19:52jmspeexpreglow: what format are you currently encoding in?
15:20:13preglowjmspeex: uwb mono vbr, if you're talking about my speex test file
15:20:14jmspeexwhat codec swapping?
15:20:30LinusNjmspeex: we can only have one codec in memory
15:20:38jmspeexpreglow: no, I meant current version of rockbox
15:20:45preglowjmspeex: low bitrate mp3
15:21:07preglowjmspeex: for legacy reasons, mostly
15:21:09jmspeexLinusN: memory is *that* small? (how small?)
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15:21:26LinusNthe static (fast) ram is the scarce resource
15:21:28preglowjmspeex: our first targets had hardware decoders and very little ram
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15:22:22preglowjmspeex: it's also partly for legacy reasons, our codecs are stored like plugins on disk, but they're statically linked, so have to be put in the same memory address always
15:22:24jmspeexAt least Speex should cause too much pressure on memory.
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15:22:36jmspeexpreglow: I assume you're disabling the stdio part of Speex, right?
15:22:41preglowLinusN: just tried 16khz vbr file of good quality, 640% realtime
15:22:52preglowjmspeex: we wrap most things, yes
15:23:06preglowjmspeex: but our libspeex really isn't modified much at all
15:23:36jmspeexpreglow: well, you can disable all the stdio part by adding two comments in os_support.h
15:23:39preglowamiconn: what bitrate do our mp3 talk clips usually end up on?
15:23:54amiconnIt's all up to the user
15:24:00jmspeexYou can also override the memory allocator from the same file
15:24:07preglowjmspeex: yup, already do it
15:24:15preglowjmspeex: but we don't use dynamic memory alloc anyway
15:24:18amiconnThere is just an upper limit for the size of the .talk files
15:24:27preglowamiconn: ok, got a typical value?
15:25:06jmspeexpreglow: yes, that's what I meant (replace the calloc() by a fixed allocator). You're aware that memory needs to be cleared, right?
15:25:26preglowjmspeex: not really, but it is anyway
15:25:53preglowjmspeex: everything that is allocated with speex_alloc, i allocate statically from iram, which is cleared
15:25:55jmspeexpreglow: well, you need to make sure, other bad things will happen.
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15:27:11preglowLinusN: quite a bit of const data is in iram, i see, we can probably remove what isn't needed for the speex modes we won't use
15:27:48LinusNpreglow: goodie
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15:30:58linuxstbpreglow: Have you tested the effect of iram on PP?
15:31:02preglowlinuxstb: no
15:31:13preglowlinuxstb: my speex work has been pretty focused around coldfire, lately
15:31:17preglowprimarily because emac is so much fun :P
15:32:14linuxstbThat 410% for your test track is Coldfire/
15:32:24jmspeexpreglow: If you have a wideband VBR file, pretty much all the modes are possible
15:32:39preglowjmspeex: not the uwb one
15:33:01jmspeexpreglow: uwb has no impacct at all on the code/codebook size
15:33:13amiconnpreglow: Just keep in mind that on PP5002, iram is much more important than on PP502x
15:33:26preglowlinuxstb: testing for pp now, the track is 435% realtime on iriver
15:33:28amiconn(still not as important as on cf for data though)
15:33:34jmspeexuwb is a second wideband layer, so it uses exactly the same code and codebook
15:33:35preglowamiconn: well, pretty much everything is in iram
15:34:12preglowjmspeex: yep, but i can allocate less meemory for decoder state structs, thanks to smaller frames
15:34:33preglowjmspeex: btw, is much of the const data encoder only?
15:35:32jmspeexpreglow: No, the const data is used by both the encoder and decoder.
15:37:02pondlifeIf we scrap the codec swapping, could the voice code be completely moved out of playback.c (maybe into talk.c, or a new SWCODEC voice.c).
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15:37:45pondlifeAnd, is it likely that speex-format voice files will be smaller than MP3 for a similar quality?
15:38:02preglowdunno, 13kbps files sound decent here
15:38:15preglowthis is why i was wondering what bitrate the mp3 clips usually are
15:38:23jmspeexpondlife: At low bit-rate, Speex will sound *much* better than MP3 for voice.
15:38:48pondlifejmspeex: From your nick, I'm guessing you may be biased ;)
15:39:02preglowhe's kind of the speex creator
15:39:16AEXhelp please i have a question, is it possible playing GB Roms and listen to music at the same time?(e200 Device)
15:39:22preglowand by "kind of" i mean "certainly"
15:39:35jmspeexpondlife: Yes, but the difference is so big that even the MP3 creators would have to agree with me. Seriously.
15:40:10jmspeexIf you compare Speex with Vorbis on voice, the "cross-over" bit-rate is around 32 kbps. and Vorbis is much better than MP3.
15:40:28scorche|wAEX: no
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15:41:40pondlifepreglow: No idea if it's typical, but my MP3 .talk files are 24kbps
15:41:50LinusNit is hardly surprising that a celp codec outperforms mp3 with voice data
15:42:01preglownot really, no...
15:42:19pondlifeSo speex should mean more audio buffer and simpler code, basically
15:42:28pondlifeSounds good to me
15:42:40preglowlinuxstb: same track decodes at 147% on nano, but i haven't given that much asm attention yet either
15:42:43LinusNi see very few drawbacks
15:42:47preglowthe qmf_synth optimization needs firm stroking there
15:43:51preglowthe 630% track decodes at 292% on nano
15:44:01preglowand that's more like voice file quality
15:44:13donutman25hey devs could this help you with the improvements on the sansa e200?
15:45:17LinusNthe only drawback i can think of would be that the core would contain a voice codec even if you don't use the voice
15:45:40preglowwell, at least it won't be very big :)
15:45:43LinusNcould be a real psychological burden for the binary-size freaks
15:45:53preglowwe'll trim it down as far as it can go
15:46:22LinusNpersonally, i couldn't care less, since the playback code would be so much better
15:46:30Zagordonutman25: uh, is that the output of "strings file.mi4"?
15:46:34pondlifeAnyway it could be linked to a different address, then loaded dynamically if needed?
15:46:43preglowpondlife: we'd still need the swapping, then
15:46:44LinusNpondlife: let's not go there
15:46:49pregloweasy is good
15:46:52preglowand this solution is easy
15:47:10LinusNthe playback code needs simplicity
15:47:13donutman25Zagor: I think so
15:48:23Zagordonutman25: then, no, that does not help
15:49:24donutman25Zagor: sorry for wasting your time then
15:49:32preglowjmspeex: you're not planning on doing any decoder-only build options, are you?
15:50:00jmspeexpreglow: Why would I? It wouldn't change the footprint much.
15:50:29preglowit does change it a bit, i've got the encoder parts #if 0ed out of sb_celp and nb_celp, and it shaved off 20k or something
15:50:39preglowbut no, i do get your point
15:50:50jmspeexpreglow: I have however reorganised the files such that if you only use narrowband and link statically, the wideband stuff gets removed.
15:51:13preglowyeah, noticed while syncing
15:51:16LinusNpreglow: how is the footprint today?
15:51:36jmspeexpreglow: 20k??? I really doubt it. What's the total size?
15:51:38preglow.codec file is around 68k for coldfire
15:51:46preglowthat excludes bss data
15:51:52LinusNhehe, that's quite small
15:51:59preglowit can be made smaller still
15:52:39LinusNthe smaller the better, of course
15:52:40preglowthere are some floats here and there to be removed, that'd remove the float emulation overhead
15:53:01jmspeexpreglow: a wideband x86-64/Linux executable is about 80k (including everything). I'm surprised your binary is that large
15:53:22preglowjmspeex: for arm it's even larger, 80kb++
15:53:30preglowand this is after stripping the encoder stuff
15:53:34amiconnpreglow: If speex is only 147% realtime on PP502x, it may well be too slow on PP5002
15:53:36jmspeexsomething's odd.
15:53:56preglowamiconn: that's for a uwb file, we'll be using wb (16khz), for which my last perfomance figure applies
15:54:21jmspeexamiconn: if you're desperate for decoding speed, there's a bunch of shortcuts that are sure to bring the complexity down to an acceptable level
15:54:21preglowamiconn: also, after i optimize a couple of vital functions, it'll be faster
15:55:09LinusNthis looks really promising
15:55:32preglowLinusN: anyway, i'd be more than interested in helping in on the codec side of things
15:55:35jmspeexpreglow, amiconn: You're aware that any nb/wb/uwb file can be transparently decoded as if it was in a different mode? Also the enhancer can be turned off −− at a cost in quality.
15:55:48preglowjmspeex: the enhancer is on by default?
15:56:05*amiconn wonders how iFP will cope with a statically linked voice codec (be it speex or mad) :>
15:56:10jmspeexpreglow: yes. And try to keep it on if you can because it does help
15:56:13*LinusN doesn't care
15:57:04preglowthe ifp isn't exactly the target that has the biggest following
15:57:14preglowjmspeex: i don't think it'll be a problem
15:57:15LinusNi don't think ifp should stop progress on all the other targets
15:57:24linuxstbCouldn't we make voice support optional via a #define?
15:57:26preglowjmspeex: speex is already more than fast enough on coldfire, and will soon be so on arm too
15:57:46amiconnLinusN: I didn't say that...
15:57:48LinusNlinuxstb: that is an option
15:58:01LinusNamiconn: i know
15:58:59LinusNa static voice codec would make life a lot easier
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16:02:08preglowstripped out vbr stuff, 63kb now
16:03:26LinusNhow does that affect the size of the encoded data?
16:04:01 Quit Zagor (Remote closed the connection)
16:04:28preglowwe're not encoding
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16:04:35preglowi'm talking in the decoder binary here
16:04:48preglowlibspeex is both encoder and decoder, i'm just stripping out the encoder stuff
16:05:06preglowdecoder doesn't need any vbr stuff, since all bit allocation has already been done on the encoder part
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16:08:05amiconnpreglow: How demanding would a speex encoder be?
16:08:40preglowamiconn: i've talked to jmspeex about it, he expects an nb (8khz) encoder would work on an ipod cpu given enough optimizing
16:08:57preglowamiconn: and from what i have seen doing decoder optimizing, i'd expect a wb encoder to work on coldfire after a load of optimizing
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16:09:12preglowbut that's something of a guess
16:09:54jmspeexpreglow: I'm sure a coldfire can encode wb
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16:10:14preglowLinusN: aha, also, we wouldn't need the ogg framing code, which means size is further cut
16:10:23jmspeexpreglow: or at least for 20.6 kbps (higher bit-rates are more expensive)
16:10:47tarsiusis linuxstd here?
16:10:55*preglow points to linuxstb
16:11:08tarsiusthat's what i meant
16:11:32tarsiusis he at the keyboard right now?
16:12:58tarsiuslinuxstb? are you there?
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16:14:19preglowjmspeex: anyway, if we are going to link speex statically to rockbox, i will probably do an #ifdef ENCODER_DISABLED thing
16:14:26preglowevery kb counts
16:14:51markuntarsius: if you stay connected he will reply eventually
16:15:12LinusNpreglow: absolutely, and also to clearly show what code is actually used
16:17:45preglowLinusN: anyway, i won't have time today
16:17:56LinusNno rush
16:18:34jmspeexpreglow: You might also want to get rid of the packet loss code and possibly other things.
16:19:10jmspeexeven the VBR code (it's not used on decode, even for VBR files)
16:19:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:19:44preglowjmspeex: i'll go through it with a fine-toothed comb :)
16:22:13markunpreglow: how big is the codec now?
16:23:08preglow63k on coldfire, but i stopped working on it for now
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16:35:56linuxstb_tarsius: I'm here now.
16:36:49tarsiushi linuxstb. I have a cygwin environment set up, i've checked out rockbox code from svn, but what i was trying to do is run lsusb to see if my player is attached...
16:37:09linuxstb_lsusb is a Linux app - I doubt it will work in cygwin.
16:37:17tarsiuslinuxstb_: would you happen to know if usbutils is even .... oh okay
16:38:31tarsiuslinuxstb_: that's what i needed to hear. i'm now attempting to compile tcctool, but i see i need to change the path to the libusb source
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16:41:47kubrickwhat chost should I use for an amd64 on a x86 installation?
16:42:31 Part LinusN
16:42:51preglowjmspeex: what is this non-standard 4.8 kbps mode, really?
16:43:31kubrickoops, that wasn't for here
16:44:51linuxstb_tarsius: Which libusb source have you got? Do you have linuxb-win32?
16:45:22linuxstb_I mean libusb-win32
16:45:41tarsiuslibusb-win32-, as installed by the Cygwin installer
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16:56:22 Quit linuxstb_ ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
16:57:58linuxstbtarsius: Have you read the install instructions for e200rpatcher on WIndows? The USB code in e200rpatcher is almost identical to tcctool -
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17:02:27tarsiuslinuxstb: sorry, but I can't discern what info in the e200rpatcher page is relevant for me at this time
17:02:46tarsiuslinuxstb: i haven't compiled the tcctool yet
17:02:50 Part pondlife ("Gone")
17:05:45linuxstbtarsius: The relevant info is the Windows installer section in step 1.
17:06:18linuxstbBasically the "" file - you will need to do something similar for tcctool. I expect it's just as simple as changing the USB IDs.
17:06:53linuxstbI could build tcctool.exe for you if you wanted.
17:07:07tarsiuslinuxstb: i think i've just about got it
17:07:50linuxstbWell, I have a .exe if you want it.
17:08:12tarsiuslinuxstb: okay, i'd really appreciate that
17:12:30 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:14:46Buschelcould someone just close FS #8014? after some discussion this patch will not be accepted as valid solution.
17:15:42 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
17:15:55scorche|wquery scorche
17:16:47linuxstbtarsius: That also includes what I think should be a correct libusb device driver for the D2.
17:17:39linuxstbtarsius: BTW, do you have a Cowon D2? I've forgotten now...
17:18:11tarsiuslinuxstb: many, many thanks. I'm working on the Sansa c100 port
17:18:32linuxstbForget that file then...
17:18:35linuxstbGive me a moment.
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17:19:11linuxstbOK, it should be fine now - same URL.
17:19:13tarsiuslinuxstb: ... but I recently bought a Sansa e250 "that doesn't start" off of eBay... I'm gambling that it may be recoverable
17:24:29 Join ChrisWa [0] (
17:24:57Buschelthanks for closing
17:26:24 Join Frazz [0] (
17:26:32ChrisWahi. just tried aacPlus v2 on the 4g iPod Photo and it skips about every second. Is it just too slow? I read on the codec status page that AAC should be realtime on ipod now, but that probably doesnt count for aacPlus v2?
17:36:29 Join bistouri [0] (i=c2c7fca1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
17:38:48bistourii'm searching for a way to test unofficial Sandisk firmwares modded "on the fly" (ie, without replacing bootloader and without re use Sansapatcher each time i try a new firmware)
17:39:21bistouriWhere does Rockbox search for official firmware after boot on Sansa targets ?
17:40:01linuxstbIt first looks in the firmware partition (the OF is kept there, but moved, if you install with Sansapatcher). Then it looks for OF.mi4/OF.bin in the System directory.
17:40:28bistourilinuxstb: many thanks
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17:41:18linuxstbtarsius: Any luck?
17:44:35bistourilinuxstb: it's curious, Sansapatcher has been applied but i don't find it in SYSTEM dir. let's grep|less :)
17:44:49bistouridon't find OF.*
17:44:59linuxstbIt's not put there by Sansapatcher.
17:45:26linuxstbSansapatcher replaces the OF in the firmware partition with the Rockbox bootloader, and then stores a copy of the OF in an unused part of the firmware partition.
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17:46:33bistourilinuxstb:thanks. i suppose i t means i'll have to apply SP each time, never mind
17:47:06linuxstbNo. If you install the Rockbox bootloader manually, then there won't be a copy of the OF in the firmware partition, so the bootloader will look for OF.mi4
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18:01:39tarsiuslinuxstb: sorry, i was on the phone... but CRAP... i left my usb cable at home
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18:02:26tarsiuswhat a bummer...
18:02:45amiconnBuschel: I did some tests. Of the update config parameters, only the rectangle itself is actually needed. And reading 0x1fc is indeed unnecessary. Leaving it out even seems to *improve* stability, akthough I need to do further testing regarding that
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18:04:04Buschelamiconn: good to see similar results from your side.
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18:06:27amiconnI'll start implementing my idea tonight - first step is writing to the bcm while internal update is running
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18:07:46Buscheli am curious about your results :o)
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18:35:00rzr\Good evening everyone. Quick question: Can I reset the database on my player just by deleting the database_*.tcd files in the /.rockbox directory?
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18:37:35tarsiuslinuxstb: I found my cable(!) and tried running tcctool with my Sansa c140 in recovery mode, loading the original firmware... but I got "[ERR] Short read."
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18:40:50tarsiuslinuxstb_: I found my cable(!) and tried running tcctool with my Sansa c140 in recovery mode, loading the original firmware... but I got "[ERR] Short read."
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18:41:28linuxstb_tarsius: No need to repeat - I read your message in the logs.
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18:41:38linuxstb_I think I know the problem, and am fixing now.
18:42:17LearAny rbutil hacker around? I could try to make it detect a Sansa properly, if I got a pointer or two...
18:42:27Lear(On Windows, that is...)
18:42:58linuxstb_tarsius: Updated version uploaded - same URL (do you need the URL again?)
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18:43:11tarsiusyes please
18:43:18linuxstb_Lear: Sansapatcher works, but rbutil doesn't?
18:45:11Domonokylear... me is here :-)
18:45:17bertrikrbutil can't autodetect a sansa e200, other than that, it works
18:45:18linuxstb_Lear: You could try adding printfs in rbutil/sansapatcher.c, to see what's going on - the sansa_scan() function.
18:45:31linuxstb_I mean rbutil/sansapatcher/sansapatcher.c
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18:46:33LearSounds like a plan. Btw, is the QT dev environment hard to setup on Cygwin?
18:47:02DomonokyLear: i use mingw and not cygwin for rbutil on windows..
18:47:23Domonokymingw is included in the qt installer for windows..
18:47:26linuxstb_Lear: You could also compile the standalone sansapatcher, to see what it _should_ be doing. You'll need the c200 and e200 bootloaders in the sansapatcher directory to build it.
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18:48:33*linuxstb_ wonders if he's the only person without a Sansa now...
18:48:43nanoklinuxstb_: :)
18:48:45amiconnlinuxstb: You're not
18:48:58*karashata doesn't have one either
18:49:21DomonokyLear: to see the console with rbutil on windows, you have to add "CONFIG += console" into the file
18:49:23tarsiuslinuxstb: haha... well i just ran tcctool and I got "[ERR] Could not find any USB busses."
18:49:58tarsiuslinuxstb: is there further installation procedure for libusb beyond the Cygwin automatic installer?
18:50:03linuxstb_tarsius: So you installed the driver I included in the zip file?
18:50:06nanoki'm afrais i'm hear for similar problems: any howto out there for building from source (preferably on linux)
18:50:17nanokfor the sansa, if it makes a difference
18:50:37linuxstb_tarsius: i.e. when you attached your c100 for the first time, Windows should have prompted you for a driver, and you needed to point it to that folder.
18:50:56tarsiuslinuxstb: okay, i'll change the driver
18:51:15LearDomonoky: So I just run the QT installer then? Do you then build from Cygwin?
18:51:16linuxstb_I've no idea what cygwin is doing with libusb - you don't need it.
18:51:35nanokpondlife: trying to help out with the log you require..
18:51:49tarsiuslinuxstb: installing...
18:52:36DomonokyLear: i use the qt installer, this also installs mingw if you want, and the there is an entry for a console with the paths setup in the Qt startmen entry.. so no cygwin fro rbutil..
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18:54:09nanoki have noticed something else with todays build, but i am not sure yet: using dithering consistently generates nasty artifacts, for quite a few tracks, which, iirc, weren;t there with the older builds
18:54:17LearDomonoky: Thanks, good to know, even if I'll give Cygwin a try anyway. :)
18:54:24nanokbut i have yet to test with an older one and see if my recolections are not wrong
18:54:40nanokanybody else noticed something similar?
18:54:45LearThere were recently changes to fix problems like that...
18:54:49nanok(this, again, is happening on the sansa)
18:54:50DomonokyLear: feel free to try it in cygwin, i dont know how good this works.. :-)
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18:58:26tarsiuslinuxstb: it appears to have worked! ... but it went directly into its usb transfer mode, so i put a battery in, pulled out the cable, and it continued playing an mp3 i was listening to before
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19:00:38pondlifenanok: I'm not familiar with the Linux setup, but did you look on the wiki?
19:01:20tarsiuslinuxstb: as a test, i held down the keys normally required for a different test mode, uploaded the firmware with tcctool, and I was taken directly to that test mode. excellent :)
19:01:34linuxstb_tarsius: Glad it's working ;)
19:01:37tarsiuslinuxstb: my hat's off to you
19:03:24nanokpondlife: give me a hint, what/where to look for, i am sure i will find something, i just am not familiar with the structure of the rockbox viki, i am new here ;)
19:03:35nanokpondlife: like a keyword or something
19:03:44bertriknanok, i can help you with getting a logf
19:04:08nanokbertrik: great
19:04:23bertriknanok: i also noticed some very subtle ticks about a week ago, but haven't noticed them recently
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19:04:44nanokbertrik: btw, did you allready get one for your sansa? iirc you managed to get the reproducing reciepe in the first place
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19:05:20nanokbertrik: i have only noticed them today, with this mornings build. they were not subtle..
19:05:21pondlifenanok: And
19:05:21bertrikyes, I have one, I'll get another from the latest build and put it up with the bug report
19:06:10nanokbertrik: okay, than i'll let you to it for now, and meanwhile read the lnk pondlife gave me, and try to find more about this dithering issue
19:06:27pondlifeThat second link is probably a better overview
19:06:50LearDomonoky: Recognize "cannot find -lqtmaind"?
19:07:03LearMaybe I don't have a debug build of Qt installed then...
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19:07:20DomonokyLear: correct..
19:07:27nanokpondlife: both sound like "must-read"'s
19:07:36Domonokyyou can build the debug libs.. but it takes a long while..
19:07:42pondlifeProbably, but beware occaisional out-of-date info!
19:07:44LearBtw, silly Qt installer. Qt can't be installed in a path with spaces, but MinGW can...
19:09:14nanokLear: spaces in paths are like dvd players with widescreen in a car for the driver: nobody in their right mind should ever think about using them
19:10:10LearWell, don't blame me, I just want to install everything in the same place (i.e., in "Program Files"). :)
19:10:10rashernanok: why on earth not? Its the 21st century..
19:10:51nanokrasher: well, the same reason for "don;t drink and drive", but usually the effects of drinking are not so bad
19:11:22rasherI don't see any argument against spaces in paths except "broken software might not work"
19:11:46nanokrasher: which reminds me: if it's the 21st century, why the fuck can i have a dvd player in my car (which is anything but completely useless) but can;t have such a basic feature like a damn HUD
19:11:52nanok(head up display)
19:12:04krazykitdoes the hud run rockbox?
19:12:11rashernanok: well that's not even remotely on topic..
19:12:11*pondlife coughs
19:12:21nanokkrazykit: i think it might be hacked to, if we would have one
19:12:32nanokrasher: correct
19:12:52pondlifeAnyone here seeing the FLAC problems reported on the forum... I thought Nico_P had talked about it, but I can't see a Flyspray report.
19:13:17LearHrm, forgot to add "CONFIG += console" first, so I added it, ran qmake, make clean and make, still no console output, it seems. Suggestions?
19:13:27nanokback on topic: i am almost sure there is no issue with dithering in the oldest build i have. i have allready tried several tracks i noticed it on today with the latest build
19:14:49preglow51428 \o/
19:15:37pondlifepreglow: I thought you'd just hit a red-build high score.. ;)
19:17:13nanoki also have some rather stupid questions: one would be: would it be possible to power down the lcd also, as an option, when powering down the light? is it allready happening? would it make sense for power consumption? how about shuting down the gpu temporarly (some, like the sansa, i think actually have one), while the backlight is on, and disabling any rendering related to the display that would otherwise be needed, to save power?
19:17:13preglownah, just spending time shrinking the speex codec :)
19:17:23LearBah, debug output is for wimps. Got it working. :)
19:17:31linuxstb_preglow: That's the .codec size?
19:18:04linuxstb_preglow: It's still going to be a very red delta...
19:19:53nanokthe point is that,on target with a colour lcd, you can't see shit anyway, when the backlight is off, no matter what you do (unlike older black/white 0/1 type lcd's)
19:20:39linuxstb_You can on some colour LCDs (all colour ipods for example).
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19:22:13nanoklinuxstb_: hm, yes, now that you mention it, i did see phones which are vaguely readable without the backlight. but the sansa seems completely black to me, without the backlight
19:22:19Learlinuxstb_: Where can I find the needed .mi4 files (need to test sansapatcher too)?
19:22:51linuxstb_ and
19:23:33linuxstb_Lear: So rbutil is working for you now?
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19:24:19LearThanks. Yes, just did an install. All looked well at least, haven't rebooted just yet. :)
19:24:31linuxstb_What was the problem?
19:25:29preglowlinuxstb_: another 2k5 is spent in floating point code we should gut out
19:25:34preglowand there's probably more here i have overlooked
19:25:59linuxstb_Is this the regular codec you're stripping, or the intended voice codec for the core?
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19:27:21preglowthe same work applies to them both, pretty much
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19:31:40preglowbut yeah, linking an entire codec does imply some overhead in size
19:31:46preglowbut i expect to be able to shave off more than this too
19:32:30tarsiuslinuxstb_: fun fact you probably already know: fw uploaded by tcctool is executed without checking the CRC
19:32:58tarsiuslinuxstb_: i hex-edited a string in my fw, uploaded it, and verified the change
19:33:11preglowlinuxstb_: also, seems removing oggframing.c helps a fair deal
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19:37:00nanok_sorry for the lag
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19:40:58linuxstbtarsius: Yes, I knew the usb boot mode skips the crc check. Do you know we can calculate the CRCs though?
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19:45:29nanok_pondlife: about one of your questions: with the ogg's in a different dir, but with one of them being set as next to play (by rockbox, not by me), so allready partialy buffered i guess, the behaviour is still the same when i skip to it
19:46:12nanok_now let me try the same, but with no manual skip, just leting rockbox get to that song
19:46:41nanok_(after some ffwd ofcourse :) )
19:47:03preglowlinuxstb: down to 61880 on arm, so yeah, it's gonna be a delta...
19:47:43tarsiuslinuxstb: telechips.h, right?
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19:49:00nanok_pondlife: okay, happens with normal play also
19:49:05preglowgod, gcc is so retarded at generating code
19:49:56linuxstbHave you tried -Os ?
19:50:20linuxstbtarsius: telechips.c is the main code...
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19:52:19nanok_pondlife: same behaviour with the mp3 in the same dir, and the ogg prebuffered (as "next song")
19:52:23pondlifenanok_: So it doesn't matter if it's buffered or not.
19:52:36pondlifeHmm, is it absolutely any mp3/ogg?
19:52:44nanok_i will write it on the flyspray
19:52:52pondlifeOr maybe a particular bitrate/filesize?
19:52:52nanok_pondlife: yes, it seems to be irrelevant
19:53:01nanok_oh, btw, i think i have some wma also (yuk)
19:53:06nanok_let me try that too
19:53:18tarsiuslinuxstb: okay
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19:58:09nanok_hm, interesting, does not happen when switching from wma to ogg, only from mp3
19:58:34nanok_i have to find some flac's also, i can;t find the damn cd's i had with flacs
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19:59:14*preglow has his nano usb-lock on him again and looks forward to zagor's work...
20:02:12MajorCive never understood this third person talk
20:02:48*karashata wonders if MajorC knows about the /me command
20:03:42karashatathought that might help clear that one up a bit
20:04:01preglowas usual, arm assembler yields laughable speedups compared to coldfire
20:04:36MajorCwell, ive been on irc since '96, so i know the fundamentals. However, i never understood the use of it.
20:05:17*karashata thinks it's primarily used for actions, though he could be wrong
20:05:39parafinit's called ctcp action
20:05:46parafinso it's for actions by definition
20:06:43karashataah, nifty
20:07:04karashataanyway, enough of this before we get prodded at for being off-topic
20:08:00MajorCwould be nice with an off topic channel for the rockbox community.
20:08:08karashatathere is
20:08:17pixelmasee topic
20:08:20*karashata chuckles
20:08:30amiconnpreglow: For the ape filters, asm helped quite a bit on arm7 too...
20:09:23amiconnNot for the stuff involving multiplication (there I could only save the 25% I mentioned yesterday), but for the vector addition / subtraction
20:09:38preglowamiconn: exactly, and speex is tons of multiplies :/
20:11:47amiconnBtw, in the ape scalarproduct() I tried switching factors, because it looks like one of the factors is often pretty small, and I thought early termination would help.
20:11:54amiconnIt didn't have any effect...
20:12:12nanokso, can anybody confirm "cliping" especially on base, with dithering enabled, on the 31/10 build? i am not sure if ti makes sense to spam the flyspray with it
20:12:29nanok(i want to install this build back though and test again, to make sure)
20:13:01preglowamiconn: we should do some tests on early termination to see if the effects are as documented
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20:14:18*nanok feels small and insignificant, amongst developers
20:14:54*karashata just haunts the channel, isn't a dev at all
20:15:55preglownanok: most people here aren't
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20:17:07*preglow needs a clever -32767..32767 clip on arm
20:17:15nanokpreglow: yes, but i feel humble when preglow and amiconn talk about early termination. only typing "early termination" send shivers down my spine
20:17:34nanok<scared>what the hell is that</scared>
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20:18:10nanokis it like.. premature termination?
20:18:14amiconnIt's a feature of the arm multiplication instruction
20:18:18nanokokay, enough offtpic
20:18:40nanokamiconn: yeah, i got that. and i also have a very vague idea what it might be about
20:18:54nanokit's actually quite interesting to listen
20:19:03nanok(so i might as well shut the hell up ;) )
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20:20:20preglowannoying arm
20:21:51preglowlinuxstb: btw, it would probably be more informative to label files meant for sansa/ipod as arm4.x, not arm7.x
20:22:20amiconnThen that would have to be armv4
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20:22:30amiconnBut it would be less specific
20:22:40preglowyou don't need any more specific than that
20:22:45amiconnE.g. the ape filter optimisation only applies to arm7
20:22:58preglowbeh, i guess arm9tdmi is also armv4
20:23:07amiconnThe gigabeat is arm9 (arm920t) which is also armv4
20:23:17preglowignore that
20:23:19amiconnBut the arm940 is v5
20:23:23amiconnWeird, eh?
20:23:56preglowit is
20:23:59preglowi always have to look that up
20:24:01preglowunable to remember
20:24:22preglowamiconn: anywho, there aren't any more clever ways to extract the lower halfword from a register by first lsl 16, then asr 16, no?
20:25:07nanokthis is nice..
20:25:15*nanok bricked the sansa. again
20:25:27nanokout come the screwdrivers
20:25:33*karashata wonders how
20:25:34linuxstbYou can't brick something twice...
20:25:56nanoklinuxstb: well, you know, that unbrickable state of bricking
20:26:04amiconnpreglow: Not for signed, no. For unsigned you could use a mask
20:26:22nanokbut, somebody here (i think you?) was right: holding the power bottun long enough does power off
20:26:41nanokdamn, my screwdrivers where crying for some action :-P
20:27:23preglowamiconn: what i wouldn't give for armv5...
20:27:25amiconnpreglow: This is the reason why I don't use int16 in mandelbrot on arm for the low zoom levels, unlike on coldfire and SH1
20:27:28nanokafter getting the player in that state (ogg after mp3), i tryed to switch to radio. this confuses it completely it seems
20:27:44amiconnpreglow: Bah, where would all the optimisation fun go then?? ;)
20:27:45nanokkarashata: in case you were still wondering
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20:28:06karashatananok: ahh...
20:28:09preglowSMULxy and SMLALxy are exactly what we want
20:28:32*karashata wonders when FM radio will work for H10 players
20:28:35preglowamiconn: for some reason i think optimizing is so much more fun when i don't have to work around a lack of good instructions :P
20:28:52amiconnpreglow: Btw, even arm11 still has that slow multiplier
20:29:12amiconn(of course at a higher cpu clock, and a bit more clever pipelining)
20:30:00nanokkarashata: it is still a work in progress on the sansa also, it seems. at least the auto-scan stuff needs some brushing up
20:30:08nanokbut it does work, as far as i can tell
20:30:08preglowamiconn: what armv is arm11?
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20:30:13amiconnv6 iirc
20:30:21preglowamiconn: then it has some very nice dsp instructions which can be used instead
20:30:39amiconnEach instruction set of our various target archs has its pros and cons
20:30:45preglowamiconn: like i don't need the full 32x32 caps of mul and mla now, i want 16x16 muls, v5 has that, and v6 has it even better
20:30:58preglowamiconn: v6 can even do packed muls
20:31:08 Quit rasher (
20:31:10preglowthis shit would FLY with that
20:31:14karashataI'm curious as to why it's not working for the H10 at all yet, apparently its the same chip as for the other iriver players that have FM radio support working on them
20:31:16amiconnArm loves to shift but hates to multiply. On coldfire it's the opposite, and also on SH1, which hates shifting even more than cf
20:31:18preglowbut anyway, we won't get armv6 soon
20:31:33preglowamiconn: i think it's so weird to hate shifting as much as sh1 does...
20:31:36preglowshifting is really common
20:31:42preglowand barrel shifters are so cheap...
20:32:51amiconnkarashata: It's the same radio chip, but the hookup is of course different, and that is the problem here
20:33:01karashataahhhh, okay...
20:33:26preglowjust look at pentium4, a big, big part of why that sucked so much is they stopped using fast shifts
20:33:26karashataso accessing the chip doesn't work the same then
20:33:32amiconnThe other irivers are coldfire, the H10 is portalplayer
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20:34:22*amiconn has almost no idea about x86 asm
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20:34:35karashatais there any possibility that the work on the Sansas might help with the H10 players later, or it the chip on the Sansas too different?
20:35:02amiconnThe radio chip in the sansa is quite different
20:35:19preglowamiconn: mul r1, r2, r1 is safe, right?
20:35:30*preglow finds his arm arm
20:36:03amiconnThere is some recent research about the H10 radio hookup done by przemhb
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20:36:14preglowyeah, seems like the last register is latched on account of the early termination
20:36:32amiconnUnfortunately I did not have the time to look into it - concentrating on lcd stuff atm
20:37:05preglowamiconn: ldmia takes 2+n cycles?
20:37:21preglowi'm doing some burst reading 16 bit stuff
20:37:27preglowwell, burst/block
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20:48:35 Quit bytie (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:51:02BiptoNhello, i am looking to make a wiki page or what not for a new port
20:51:07 Join flacoste [0] (i=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste)
20:51:08BiptoNi think i need write permission
20:51:50flacostehello, i'm a new rockbox user (installed on a e280 using yesteday's daily build)
20:51:52 Join webguest17 [0] (i=4a469ecd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:52:19flacostei add problems navigating the files I uploaded (using the Sansa OS since USB doesn't work)
20:52:21webguest17does sansapatcher work on e200r?
20:53:00flacostewebguest17: no, see
20:53:21flacostei first put files in the Sansa music directory
20:53:31nanokabout the dithering and cliping: it seems it's a combination of dithering and crosfeed usage. with more conservative crossfeed settings (more attenuation on bttt cross and direct), it seems okay..
20:53:38flacostefor some weird reason, that directory didn't show in the File viewer
20:53:50nanokso i think i will play more with it before i call it a "fly"
20:53:52flacosteand the database never finished building
20:53:58peturBiptoN: wiki name?
20:54:10Domonokyflacoste: just change the fileview in rockbox to all, and you will see hidden folders.. :-)
20:54:29karashataflacoste: the directory may be hidden, try changing the file view in Rockbox to "all" instead of "supported"
20:54:36flacosteDomonoky: ok, music is a special 'hidden' folder
20:54:53flacostebut anyway, I moved the files under root and I can now browse them
20:55:02nanokflacoste: the "permanent" solution is to move the music to something the of won;t hide everytime
20:55:09flacostebut the database contains like 10 duplicates of every song
20:55:10nanokuntill we have usb support, at least..
20:55:38flacostei rebuild many times since I never was able to access the files from the DB view
20:55:42*petur prods BiptoN awake
20:55:44flacosteso that may have cause this duplication
20:55:52*karashata suggests keeping the music in the root folder, as long as your folder structure is decent
20:55:53 Quit alienbiker99 ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
20:55:58flacosteIs there some way to reset the DB?
20:56:10flacosteI tried both 'Initialize database' and 'Update now' but nothing changed
20:56:15nanokflacoste: re-initialize?
20:56:26Domonokyflacoste: you could try to delete all *.tcd files in the rockbox dir, and reinit the db..
20:56:40karashatawould deleting the database files in the .rockbox folder help?
20:56:45flacosteDomonoky: ok, that's what I was wondering, which files I should delete
20:56:55flacosteso *.tcd files are the DB
20:56:59 Quit crashd ("leaving")
20:56:59flacostei'll nuke them, thanks
20:58:41 Join crashd [0] (
20:58:50BiptoNpetur: wiki name ? how bout Microtrack 24/96?
20:59:03peturBiptoN: your wikiname
20:59:13peturdid you already register?
20:59:22 Join webguest38 [0] (i=4396db20@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:59:29peturFirstnameLastname style only
21:00:08webguest38anyone online
21:00:23BiptoNpetur: i have an account for the fand what not, is that different
21:00:45 Quit webguest38 (Client Quit)
21:00:52 Join webguest38 [0] (i=4396db20@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:01:05 Quit webguest38 (Client Quit)
21:01:15peturBiptoN: you need to register on the wiki and give me that name so I can give it write access
21:03:45preglowif this piece of asm works on the first try...
21:04:01BiptoNpetur: JasonLyons
21:05:08peturBiptoN: done
21:06:27 Quit webguest17 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:06:35BiptoNthank you
21:06:49 Join Zagor [0] (
21:07:21preglowit didn't...
21:08:02karashatapreglow: have you ever had a piece of asm work for you on the first try?
21:08:03*petur hands preglow a beer anyway ;)
21:09:14*jhMikeS wonders what preglow is doing
21:09:27*preglow thanks petur with tears in his eyes
21:09:30preglowjhMikeS: iir_mem16 for arm
21:09:41jhMikeSwhich codec?
21:09:56 Quit J3TC- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:10:25preglowjhMikeS: there's been talk of using speex as a statically linked voice codec, and i thought i'd just go ahead and optimize for arm to see how well suited it is for all platforms
21:10:38preglowit's nice on coldfire, but not so fast on arm right now
21:11:13 Quit BiptoN ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:11:37jhMikeSshould a statically linked codec be as general as the loadable one?
21:11:49preglowdepends what you mean
21:12:30jhMikeSif anything can be removed if voice format could be restricted somehow (and I'd love to not have swapping)
21:12:51preglowjhMikeS: yes, sure, i'm currently stripping it as far as i can
21:13:29preglowit's still sizable, though, around 50kb for coldfire
21:13:43preglowbut, that's including main codec handling, ogg container handling plus floating point code
21:13:57preglowi believe it should be doable to get it down to around 35-40kb
21:14:07preglowjhMikeS: and yes, the whole point is to not have to swap
21:14:49nanokhm, nice. i switched from bass/treble to equalizer (some preset), to check again if power consumption is indeed much higher (i think it is, right?)
21:14:56jhMikeShmmm...any way to lease buffer space and make it not take memory at all times if one doesn't use voice?
21:15:16nanokthe battery level went (as reported) in about 10 minutes from some 47% to 48% something
21:15:52scorche|wnanok: battery reporting is not that precise
21:16:14preglowok, now speex sounds like something close to morse code...
21:16:16nanokat this rate, i will have to put some small high intensity led or something, to not overcharge it while not plugged in :-P
21:16:25nanokscorche|w: yeah, i know ;)
21:16:36jhMikeSpreglow: well, that might do just as well :)
21:16:43preglowjhMikeS: really cheap voice codec :P
21:17:05preglownanok: it should be a fair deal higher, yes, depending on platform
21:17:12scorche|wwell, that really doesnt prove anything will need to do a full bettery bench
21:17:54preglowjhMikeS: what, you mean unloading the codec from ram when not in use? i don't think we're going to miss 40kb much on swcodec
21:17:58nanokpreglow: at first, when i used eq with corssfeed and dithering (all the good stuff ;) ), it scared me. i think it was not more than five hours
21:19:07nanokbut lately, with some decent, "honest" usage, i seem to come close to 16hrs in theory (i get about 8hrs, and have more than 50 percent reported. but this, ofcourse, can mean anything, i will not know till i drain it)
21:19:15Domonokydoes somebody know if it would be possible to provide the features file alongside the voice files on the rockbox servers ? ( the it would be possible to let rbutil generate voicefiles) ??
21:19:19nanokhowever it is surely much more than my first impressions
21:19:19preglownanok: what player do you have?
21:19:27nanokpreglow: sansa e200
21:19:36preglownanok: it shouldn't cause it to drop to 5 hours
21:19:46preglowbut eq + cf + dithering will max your cpu very nicely, yes
21:19:56jhMikeSpreglow: meh...still 40K I'd rather have back. anyway, will it run on CF sans IRAM?
21:19:58nanoki understand getting up to 16h wit rockbox on this one is quite an achievment (but doable)
21:20:13preglowjhMikeS: it will do so, but it'd be better to give it some, it really doesn't require much iram
21:20:31preglowjhMikeS: i did a quickndirty hack and had it down to 9kb iram
21:20:37preglowprobably can shave more
21:20:39 Quit criznach ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
21:20:46preglowas a matter of fact, it's probably less now i've stripped some stuff out
21:20:49nanokpreglow: yes, i should think so indeed. but crossfeed i really need, i love it. i think it is my favourite feature so far
21:20:51jhMikeSpreglow: then some IRAM will need to be dedicated to it if swapping is no longer done.
21:21:04nanokbut eq, most of the time, i think i can do without
21:21:06preglownanok: crossfeed is cheaper than a full eq
21:21:16preglowjhMikeS: i think we have free iram lying around as it is
21:21:24nanokpreglow: that's what i noticed also, yes
21:21:36preglownanok: yeah, crossfeed is perhaps two eq bands or something
21:21:44jhMikeSpreglow: last time I tried some free IRAM in DSP, I ran out :)
21:21:49preglowthe equivalent of
21:22:11preglowjhMikeS: mreally. well, it'll run without, but it'll be plenty slower, of course
21:22:13jhMikeSjust added some functions...hardly 9k.
21:22:23nanokpreglow: but i want to play more with this during the following days, and see if i can come up with some empirical guide. i noticed people ask sometimes on the list, and it was hard for me to find info about it at first
21:22:37preglownanok: well, i coded all those features, so feel free to ask
21:22:48nanokmaybe it would be nice to have some "wuick and dirty power-related hints"
21:23:08nanokpreglow: aahm :). great to meet the maker ;)
21:23:13jhMikeSpreglow: then we can use a speex format that's cheaper to decode, no?
21:24:02 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
21:24:06preglowjhMikeS: deed, i plan to
21:24:11 Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
21:24:21preglowjhMikeS: there's a choice of nb, wb and uwb (8khz, 16khz and 32khz), we'll go wb
21:24:38preglownanok: anyway, what would be helpful would be a full benchmark with and without all those things
21:24:44jhMikeShmmm...without swapping, speech could work in all plugins potentially...unless they want that IRAM as well.
21:24:44 Quit The-Compiler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:24:46preglowso at least one can easily see what the worst case usage is
21:24:57nanokpreglow: like a battery bench out file?
21:25:11preglownanok: there's a plugin for it
21:25:16nanokpreglow: yeah, why not,
21:25:28nanokpreglow: i know, i have to play with it
21:25:34preglownanok: you start the plug, exit it, then just leave the player running, playing a set of files until it shuts down
21:25:52preglownanok: just make sure the testing conditions are known, like be sure to use only files of the same codec, at near the same bitrate
21:26:18*jhMikeS doesn't understand the e200 battery life issues and has never been able to drain his e200 over a few days use
21:26:44nanokpreglow: aham, i get the point
21:26:50amiconnjhMikeS: The speech codec iram would be core iram, nothing to do with plugin/codec iram
21:27:16preglowjhMikeS: anyway, i guess you should know if getting rid of the codec swap would simplify playback.c noticably
21:27:18jhMikeSbut it could be made available is what I'm saying
21:27:49jhMikeSpreglow: I'd love that...and you bet it would
21:27:51Learnanok: battery time reporting on sansa is far from precise, but you perhaps know that already...
21:28:07nanoki have to think about how to do this, because i was planning to do the non-informal one at work (which is doable, no problem), but the problem i am now addicted to it. and during the night i have no choice but to charge the damn thing
21:28:18nanokaddiction is a tricky thing
21:28:19jhMikeSwould also make multithreaded codecs much simpler since no thread parking need be done
21:28:34pixelmabattery bench doesn't log anything currently on Sansa
21:28:45LearIt does, with a small patch.
21:28:45nanokwhy the hell didn;t they just fit an aa battery compartment to it. what;s wrong wit everybody these days, with this liion stuff :)
21:29:28nanokLear: so the suplied plugin with the "current" builds will not log?
21:29:44nanoki haven't had a chance to play with it yet
21:29:55preglowjhMikeS: well, then i'd very much surprised if any better candidate for a statically linked voice codec than speex will show up, it's meant for voice, gives nice files at low bitrate, is small both code and data wise, and has the potential to be very fast
21:29:58pixelmaLear: there was a short discussion about it on Saturday IIRC with JdGordon. He wanted to look into the "correct" fix
21:30:05LearNo, apparently not (I read up on it on the wiki and applied the patch before trying it).
21:30:42amiconnLear: You mean a hack. The proper solution would be using the ata callbacks in battery_bench
21:31:07preglowamiconn: right, arm is little endian, the first word will be in the lower part of a register.......
21:31:12nanokLear: patch to the source tree, or on the "binary" build
21:31:15Learamiconn: Yes, the patch was a hack, only good for flash targets.
21:31:16jhMikeSpreglow: chop chop then. I'd rather have swapping gone than have to concoct some weird interface to swap a dual-core SPC codec...and I really want to commit that.
21:31:25preglowjhMikeS: am on it
21:31:26Learnanok: Source patch.
21:31:29scorche|wnanok: li-ion is a superior technology in most all aspects...
21:31:29karashatananok: presumably Li-ion batteries can provide better battery-life times than standard AAs
21:31:47karashatanot to mention what scorche|w said
21:32:02nanokkarashata: for the same weight, sure
21:32:18scorche|wper charge, yes...the only area they lose to Ni-MH really is amount of cycles total
21:32:41nanokwell, the point is "portbility". i like standard stuff, it means i am completely independent. but nevermind, this is a holly war
21:32:51*karashata nods slightly
21:33:21preglowargh, i need a real beer
21:33:35 Part chandlerc ("Leaving")
21:33:35nanoksufice to say: liion is not "standardized" (didn;t get into aa like nimh did) probably because it would be too bloody dangerous to do so (bllow-up kind of dangerous)
21:34:13amiconnHrrmm, lcd_yuv_blit() needs some more work with my idea how to speed up bcm operation...
21:34:21*karashata has never had issues with Li-ion or Li-poly batteries "blowing up" on him, thankfully
21:34:33nanokscorche|w: indeed. and these days, the number of cycles is not so important anymore
21:34:49scorche|wnanok: hrm?...what "standardized" are you referring to?
21:34:49nanokwith rechargeables being so cheap (even liion ones)
21:34:56scorche|wand actually, lets move this to -community...
21:35:06jhMikeSpreglow: maybe I should change the codec malloc crud and dump the huge malloc buffer. that's 10x the size of a core speex decoder.
21:35:16nanokscorche|w: i mean like stuff you can find anywhere(think "gas station") and can replace on the go
21:35:50scorche|wi can find a power outlet more places than i can buy a battery
21:35:56scorche|wbut as i said, lets move to -community ;)
21:36:08nanokstuff you can recharge with many different chargers, stuff you use in many other appliances without any modifications
21:36:12preglowjhMikeS: i've had a look, and the only two decoders that seriously rely on malloc right now are faad and tremor
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21:36:30nanokscorche|w: indeed :). and this is also flame material, so no point to go on here ;)
21:36:31preglowjhMikeS: the rest use mallocs either for seek table or container handling, and not many do even that
21:36:47*scorche|w sighs
21:37:08jhMikeSpreglow: I think tremor was updated to use the slack space by tomal
21:37:30preglowfaad should be easy to convert to static alloc
21:37:39preglowtremor will be the hardest, vorbis is designed not to have limits
21:38:02jhMikeSit has a cumtom implementation that allows free to work
21:38:33preglowwhat the hell, that is one of the most disappointing speedups ever
21:38:49preglowi bloody HATE asm optimizing for arm, you never know if you're throwing your time out the window until you've done it
21:39:29 Quit ilgufo ("So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish -")
21:39:50 Quit MajorC ()
21:39:53amiconnYay, my method works! :)
21:39:55jhMikeSregardless of what may be said about ARM7, it seems to matter re: load stalls there too.
21:39:59amiconn56.5fps @80MHz
21:40:20amiconnThat's till not the best way, just a quick test...
21:40:21 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:40:57 Join scorche|w [0] (n=8dc5049d@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
21:43:11jhMikeSpreglow: and I know what you mean about ARM. most of the IDCT speedup for video came from dropping multiplication...not from asm.
21:43:54jhMikeSand even that wasn't drastic like you'd see with emac
21:44:24preglowbrb, need to see a trailer park boys ep :V
21:44:30preglowcan't drop muls here anyway
21:45:10jhMikeSyeah, I know, bugger
21:49:19 Join GeekK [0] (
21:50:11*GeekK proud X5L newbie owner ;-)
21:52:23LearjhMikeS: Malloc buf isn't always enough for Tremor, so I don't see how the slack space would be enough...
21:53:01 Part GeekK
21:53:18linuxstbAre the memory requirements known in advance of decoding, or is it a frame-by-frame thing?
21:53:29 Join [g2] [0] (
21:54:12nanokoh, btw, speaking about insects..
21:54:32[g2]anyone playing with the 3g nanos ?
21:54:41amiconnLear: tomal got Tremor working somehow on iFP...
21:54:48nanokthat mp3 stopping to play "randomly"bug is still here, in the build i just downloaded 1/2h ago or so
21:55:16jhMikeSLear: then I guess that is a problem. I got the impression is was more than sufficient.
21:55:19linuxstb[g2]: No-one has mentioned that they are.
21:55:32amiconnIsn't this variant called tremor-lowmem? :>
21:55:40nanokand btw btw: is there a place one can get older "current" builds?
21:55:48[g2]linuxstb: The apple video nanos
21:56:02Zagoroh ffs, kernel oops again :(
21:56:02jhMikeSamiconn: he just implemented a stack for temp memory that is full descending
21:56:12linuxstb[g2]: Yes, I know what the 3g nanos are...
21:56:30linuxstbZagor: Byeeee...
21:56:36 Quit Zagor ("here we go again")
21:56:49[g2]linuxstb: oh... sorry... THX
21:57:05nanoklinuxstb: linux kernel, i take it? ..
21:57:48karashatananok: there's a link to the daily builds page on the current build page
21:57:59karashataand from there you can get archived daily builds for your player
21:58:31nanokkarashata: must have missed it, let me check
21:58:38 Join Genre9mp3 [0] (n=yngwiejo@
21:58:50nanokkarashata: aaaah
21:58:52 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
21:58:54nanokgot it, thanks :)
21:58:56nanoksilly me
21:58:58karashatayou're welcome
21:59:27Learlinuxstb: For tremor, it comes from the codebooks (in the file), so they should be possible to calculate up front. Might need a fair bit of code though.
21:59:31karashatais okay, I think they're trying to hide them in plain sight because they like to push using the most current build
21:59:31nanokkarashata: i actually went there at first, to get the fonts, as documented
21:59:32jhMikeSI think libmpeg2 may need a similar thing since libmpeg2_reset won't work correctly atm (it needs to free YUV buffers and the FB)
21:59:54linuxstbLear: I was just wondering if it could be allocated on the audio buffer...
21:59:58karashatananok: the fonts are actually available under the "extras" link on the side nav menu too
21:59:58Learamiconn: Yes, there is. Got it running on coldfire, but it was real slow.
22:00:16linuxstbBut that wouldn't help low-mem targets...
22:01:03 Join Zagor [0] (
22:01:34Learamiconn: Still needs to allocate something like 70-100 kB or so.
22:03:03amiconnIt thought we were already using -lowmem
22:05:24jhMikeSwhy can't MoB allocate these buffers for certain codecs and not others anyway?
22:05:25 Join Domonoky_ [0] (
22:06:05amiconnWould be a waste (if I understand your idea correctly)
22:06:34 Quit freqmod_nx (Remote closed the connection)
22:07:10 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
22:07:25jhMikeSWhy? Is the slack space enough for the two big malloc users?
22:08:01preglowamiconn: i don't think we're using low-mem
22:08:16preglowjhMikeS: malloc buffer isn't enough? that's insane, then there's a memory leak
22:08:54amiconnjhMikeS: Think about 10 small tracks in the buffer, each having a buffer allocated, even though only one of the buffers will be in use at any time
22:08:55jhMikeSI think Lear was implying slack space wasn't enough.
22:09:15amiconnThat's waste more space than the malloc buffer
22:09:33 Join freqmod_nx [0] (
22:09:35jhMikeSamiconn: one codec buffer. not an buffer instance for each track.
22:09:36 Join barrywardell [0] (
22:09:43amiconnHow different is tremor-lowmem from ordinary tremor?
22:09:48LearYes, it isn't. But only for old beta 4 encoded files. And leaks aplenty there are, as in the codec world, free is a nop... :)
22:10:37amiconnjhMikeS: And how would that work? The buffer from a track already flushed can no longer be used...
22:10:43*jhMikeS considers a real moveable memory allocator
22:10:46linuxstbWould anyone complain if we dropped support for beta4 files?
22:10:56jhMikeSamiconn: some special handling
22:11:26Learamiconn: Short story (as well as I can describe it anyway): don't do a full codebook decode on init, then do the remaining decoding as needed (repeatedly).
22:11:33jhMikeSwhy shouldn't they have one where free works and compacts it too?
22:11:36 Quit nicktastic ("Leaving")
22:12:15LearThere's a bug on the tracker about some files not working.
22:12:21 Quit barrywardell (Client Quit)
22:13:00amiconnLear: Afaik, the Tremor version in rockbox svn already received quite some optimisation. I wonder whether (most of) these optimisations could be applied to -lowmem
22:13:17jhMikeSamiconn: I think something other than association with "track" would need to exist.
22:13:23preglowlinuxstb: you mean floor0?
22:13:48LearI did copy most of them (that were done at the time). At least involving inline asm in in header files.
22:14:04amiconnTremor is one of the monster codecs. The other one is aac
22:14:08linuxstbpreglow: I mean whatever Lear meant... i.e. these memory-guzzling vorbis files.
22:14:22preglowwhy do they guzzle memory?
22:14:29preglowapart from the sheer fun involved
22:16:56LearI suspect the slowness came from table chasing. In "normal" Tremor, a codebook lookup is basically one table lookup. In -lowmem, the same operation involves several lookups, in different tables.
22:19:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:20:22 Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (
22:21:15 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
22:22:09preglowamiconn: what would be the fastest way of doing a speex style symmetric clip in arm code?
22:23:38amiconnI think on arm it might be possible to use 2 comparisons and play with the condition bits
22:23:46 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:23:48amiconnThat would save the offseting
22:24:30amiconnAnd the 32767 would be needed just once when using both cmp and cmn
22:24:37preglowyes, i do that now
22:24:59preglowcurrently i load 32767 to a reg, do a cmp, high clip with the same constant, cmn, but then i need to generate -32767
22:25:11preglowi'd like to do it with no branches :/
22:25:27 Join jac0b [0] (
22:26:07jac0bhas anyone had a issue with MOB. I think I am having a problem with it.
22:26:31jac0bif I skip a couple track my harddrive just spins forever
22:26:52jac0band the wps won't show the correct song info
22:26:57amiconnpreglow: I think the symmetric clip should be just 4 instructions (no branch) on arm if you have the 32767 preloaded in a register
22:27:01jac0bI have to restart for it to stop
22:28:09preglowamiconn: i just figured it out
22:28:12preglowamiconn: using rsc
22:28:49preglowamiconn: cmp rx, rconst \n movgt rx, rconst \n cmn rx, rconst \n rcslt rx, rconst, #0
22:28:52preglowamiconn: that should do it
22:29:14preglowrsc, btw
22:29:36amiconnI'd think you need rsblt
22:29:39jac0bhas anyone had that problem?
22:30:08amiconnrsc is with carry - and you don't know what it's set to
22:30:54preglowamiconn: yes, of course rsb...
22:32:16preglowi don't need to worry about sp being wrong on arm, right? unless i call something, of course
22:32:43 Part jac0b
22:33:14amiconnI think you could - but I never count on that
22:33:27preglowi intend to if i can, that's one extra register
22:34:31 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
22:37:22bertrikamiconn: do you have some time to walk through some playback.c weirdness with me?
22:39:32 Quit Ebert ()
22:41:25bertriki have a feeling that the recent sansa e200 playback problems could be caused by something in playback.c
22:42:20bertrikthe way that function audio_clear_track_entries is called looks wrong, at least it violates the principle of least surprise
22:43:28bertrikit walks through the track entries from the write pointer to the read pointer and unbuffers all tracks in between
22:45:09bertrikhowever in at least three places, the write pointer is assigned with the value of the read pointer *before* calling audio_clear_track_entries, causing *all* entries to be unbuffered
22:47:20amiconnI am no playback.c expert at all
22:47:28Learbertrik: Nico_P or lostlogic would be better to discuss that with, I think.
22:47:33amiconnAnd I am still busy with lcd stuff
22:48:37bertrikok, lostlogic can you have a look with me?
22:49:48 Part [g2]
22:50:40 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
22:54:16 Join spiorf [0] (
22:57:29 Join safetydan [0] (n=safetyda@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
22:58:44amiconnlinuxstb: Btw, as you mentioned the brightness test function - there's also a hdd power test function in the rom...
22:59:09amiconnThat one isn't reachable from diag mode, I guess it's available via the debug shell
23:05:48 Quit flacoste (Remote closed the connection)
23:06:16preglowamiconn: brightness test? as in lcd?
23:06:33 Join qweru [0] (
23:06:45preglowamiconn: that information would be very interesting....
23:07:00preglowamiconn: debug shell? do we know how to get there?
23:07:09amiconnI think it's serial
23:07:22amiconnNot sure how to enter it
23:07:47amiconnIt's just stuff I found while disassembling the whole G5.5 rom
23:09:46jmspeexpreglow: The 4.8 kbps mode is something I wrote specifically for UT2004, but it has bit-rot since then. It's not in the spec, so you shouldn't worry about it.
23:10:56preglowjmspeex: ut2k4 used such a low bitrate mode? talking network play then, i assume?
23:11:23preglowamiconn: are you disassembling those functions? if not, i'd be very interested in hearing which offset it's at
23:11:57amiconnI already disassembled them (raw), but don't understand yet what they do
23:12:32amiconnTey do a lot of calculation with their parameters, then fiddle both with the gpio port range (calculated addresses), and 0x70000080
23:12:52amiconnHrrm, and I have a bug in my fast lcd update :\
23:12:59jmspeexpreglow: Yes, it's for player comm
23:13:26preglowamiconn: i'd love to not have to use pwm for backlight fading
23:13:45preglowjmspeex: why did you include that mode in the official code if it's only for ut2k4?
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23:15:36jmspeexpreglow: It's disabled by default, but I thought some people could find it useful as well (there's nothing UT-specific)
23:15:48preglowjmspeex: ahh, i didn't notice that
23:16:28preglowjmspeex: anywho, i've spread #ifndef SPEEX_DECODER_ONLY around tons of places now, it's not pretty, but i've managed to shave off quite a bit of code size
23:16:51jmspeexhow much code have you shaved off?
23:17:45 Quit TotallyInfected ()
23:17:47preglowdoing a comparison right now
23:18:20jmspeexpreglow: So you've disabled the analysis/quantisation functions in ltp.c, quant_lsp.c, lsp.c, vq.c, ...?
23:18:27amiconn#ifndef SPEEX_DECODER_ONLY looks weird. Negating a non-feature
23:18:46amiconnWhy not #ifdef SPEEX_ENCODER ?
23:18:59preglowjmspeex: from 85020 bytes to 50896 on boldfire
23:19:50preglowjmspeex: in other words, hardly worth the bother on anything but limited embedded targets
23:19:54jmspeexI thought it was a new range of CPUs :-)
23:20:04preglowjmspeex: it's trademarked as per right now! :D
23:20:18 Quit stewball (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:20:52preglowjmspeex: but anyway, if we're linking this baby statically in the core, i want it to be as small as possible
23:21:11preglowjmspeex: oh, and btw, i just optimized iir_mem16 for arm, decent speedup for order 8, small for order 10
23:21:32jmspeexwhy the difference? registers?
23:21:46preglowyep, for order 8 i keep all the mem[] array in registers
23:21:51jmspeexdid you use DF1 or DF2T?
23:22:11jmspeexstarting from my assembly code?
23:22:11preglowit's kinda hard to use straight df1 since mem[] and y[] aren't the same size
23:22:23preglowno, i did it from scratch, didn't see any asm code for that
23:22:37jmspeexpreglow: well, if you use df1, you don't use mem[] at all.
23:23:08jmspeexpreglow: well, there was iir_mem2() in filters_arm.h
23:23:17preglowjmspeex: well, i'd need to use it at the start of the sequence
23:23:22preglowjmspeex: but that's a very decent point
23:23:33jmspeexwhat do you mean?
23:23:47 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
23:23:53preglowjmspeex: i assume you mean i'd just use y[i - 1], y[i - 2] etc for memory, right?
23:24:20preglowjmspeex: in that case, i'd still need some place to store the previous frame's contents at the start of the next frame
23:24:26preglowi just assume that place would be mem[]
23:24:56jmspeexpreglow: didn't you do exactly that for coldfire (using my implementation in filters_bfin.h)?
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23:25:08preglowbut i really should have
23:25:08 Join Soap_ [0] (
23:25:20preglowcoldfire is made for that stuff
23:25:23jmspeexso you did the coldfire code in df1 form?
23:25:28preglowtdf2, yes
23:25:35jmspeexsorry, I meant df2t
23:25:45preglowyeah, i did
23:25:58preglowand i probably really should stop doing that
23:26:05jmspeexIf your chip has a MAC, then df1 should really be faster
23:26:35preglowbut anyway, what constraints will the output have? an all-pole filter kinda makes me worry about overflow
23:26:42jmspeexI need to cleanup the df1 C code...
23:26:58preglowi guess it's not a problem since the output is within limits for the tdf2 case anyway
23:26:59jmspeexwhat do you mean?
23:27:14 Quit Soap (Nick collision from services.)
23:27:19 Nick Soap_ is now known as Soap (
23:27:23preglowforget it, i'm being stupid
23:27:44 Join Soap_ [0] (n=Soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:27:58jmspeexYes, the output has the same limits. I think the mem[] range is actually a factor of 2 off (don't remember which way), but it's OK.
23:28:26jmspeex(i.e. IIRC you couldn't mix DF1 with DF2T using the same memory)
23:28:35preglownope, you can't
23:28:42preglowtdf2 is canonical, df1 isn't
23:29:06 Quit Soap (Client Quit)
23:29:15preglowbtw, i listened to an nb file without the actual lpc stage due to an error, sounded surprisingly good
23:29:19jmspeexpreglow: I mean reusing the memory. And actually, in float I can.
23:29:42jmspeexYou probably had a high bit-rate
23:29:50preglowyeah, q8 vbr
23:30:00preglowdid it sounds good thanks to the residual?
23:30:16preglowit had plenty of articulation in it, and afaik, the codebook itself has little of that
23:30:41jmspeextheoretically, if you increase the bit-rate enough, you can reconstruct perfectly, even without LPC. Practically, that's just silly
23:31:06preglowwell, sure, you'd pretty much be making a fancy variable length code wav codec :)
23:31:06jmspeexwhich codebook, what articulation?
23:31:58jmspeexbasically, LPC is just there to easily reduce the signal's power with very few bits.
23:31:59preglowby articulation i mean i could actually discern what was said, vowels and all
23:32:14jmspeexof course, it would just have sounded a bit more "flat"
23:32:26preglowi thought the lpc filter basically modelled all the formants and stuff
23:33:01jmspeexdid you disable on the decoder side or the encoder side?
23:33:30preglowhappened when i was optimizing iir_mem16, i left the order 10 case a pure ""return;
23:33:33jmspeexthen you lost part of the formants, but your ear probably compensated for that
23:34:07jmspeexpreglow: BTW, it's worth checking that your implementation is bit-exact with mine −− or at least know where the differences are.
23:34:19preglowcoldfire is bit-exact
23:34:24preglowarm isn't far enough along that i've bothered
23:34:27preglowworking on qmf_synth now
23:34:32jmspeexgood (it's easy to subtly sccrew things up)
23:34:42preglowyeah, i know, i actually had an error i noticed this way
23:35:00preglowi know of only one difference now, and that is the clipping in qmf_synth on coldfire
23:35:10preglowgetting that for free was just too tempting, so it clips at -32768
23:35:18preglowi have tested with several badly clipping files, and the result is good
23:36:03*Domonoky_ find it really nice to see codec authors involved with rockbox work.. :-)
23:36:14preglowDomonoky_: me too
23:36:19scorche|wi am happy too :)
23:36:22rasherThat's two..
23:36:25jmspeexpreglow: on ARM you can just use two comparison/conditional move pairs, overhead should be negligible.
23:36:31 Join Soap [0] (
23:36:48preglowjmspeex: i use cmp \n movgt \n cmp \m rsblt for clipping on arm
23:36:48scorche|wjmspeex: were you invited, or just found your own way in here?
23:37:05jmspeexpreglow: Make sure it's still OK for uwb because then the output of qmf_synth will go in another qmf_synth
23:37:22preglowjmspeex: know, i've tested all three modes
23:37:42jmspeexscorche|w: Just found my way after talking to preglow
23:37:55scorche|wah...nice :)
23:37:55preglowjmspeex: however, qmf_synth never negates the input it gets, so it should be fine unless any of the coefs are -32768, which they aren't, afaik
23:38:12jmspeexpreglow: probably OK, then.
23:38:52jmspeexpreglow: Maybe I should start hunting for NEG16 macros...
23:39:20preglowjmspeex: btw, you probably know this, but there are some small leftover float code here and there
23:39:30preglowjmspeex: are any of these problematic, or have you just not gotten around to fixing them?
23:39:41jmspeexpreglow: where?
23:39:52jmspeexI'm aware of a few, but maybe I missed something as well.
23:40:00preglowlet's see if i can find some again
23:40:15jmspeexThere's a few things in initialisation, which I haven't been bothered with (will use a const table when I do)
23:40:40preglow bw_lpc(QCONST16(0.93f,15), st->interp_qlpc, lpc, st->lpcSize);
23:40:45preglowarhg, forget that
23:40:47jmspeexThen VBR and stereo code. The rest should be fine
23:41:43preglowmight have been i saw it in an EPIC_48K ifdef as well, i thought that was enabled, for some reason...
23:41:44jmspeexwhat else?
23:42:05preglow ol_pitch_coef=GAIN_SCALING*0.066667*quant;
23:42:07preglowthat, for example
23:42:13preglowwill be floating point code when assembled, afaik
23:42:48jmspeexyes, need to fix that.
23:43:21preglowi'll probably do the stereo thing sooner or later
23:44:27safetydanyay stereo! I think that's the most noticeable problem with speex in Rockbox
23:44:48preglowshould be easy enough too, unless i'm missing something
23:44:50jmspeexsafetydan: you really use stereo in rockbox.
23:45:08jmspeexpreglow: yes, it's very simple (and very crappy)
23:45:31jmspeexall it does is adjust the volume −− and it's not even that good at that.
23:45:32preglowjust iir smoothed intensity stereo?
23:45:52preglowi wouldn't care much about stereo for speech anyway
23:46:10jmspeexpretty much. Plus, without sub-bands like decent intensity stereo implementations.
23:46:31jmspeexpreglow: any other float stuff?
23:47:02preglowjmspeex: looking around now
23:47:03*amiconn found the problem in his faast G5 lcd update :)
23:47:05safetydanjmspeex: no, but it's about the only thing that doesn't work in speex decoding
23:47:31amiconnThe BCM just doesn't like writing to unaligned addresses. It ignores those writes
23:47:43jmspeexsafetydan: stereo is easily disabled if you can't decode it. In fact, if you ignore it, it goes away :-)
23:47:45amiconnRounding to even x and width, and it works like a charm :)
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23:52:12 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:53:33preglowamiconn: these binutils people don't impress me with their bug-fixing speed yet either...
23:54:06preglowjmspeex: can't find any more, i'll let you know when i start looking for them for real
23:54:25preglowjmspeex: it's pretty easy to see when you've gotten rid of all, since our speex codec will shrink by 3.5kb then...
23:54:39 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC")
23:55:07amiconnpreglow: Yeah. I received nothing apart from the 2 mails confirming my report and the attachment.
23:55:38preglowamiconn: i'll find someone on irc and bug them soon
23:55:49preglowthere's bound to be some binutils people in the gcc channel
23:57:08 Join kcbanner [0] (n=kcbanner@
23:57:09kcbannerHey all
23:57:17kcbannera friend of mine has a sansa e200, with rockbox on it
23:57:26kcbanneronly problem is it doesn't detect and show up as a usb drive in windows
23:57:30kcbannerwhen rockbox is booted.
23:57:52kcbanneris there a common issue for this?
23:57:57Domonoky_kcbanner: he should use the sansa firmware for usb until rockbox has usb .-)
23:58:05kcbannerOOoohhh :P
23:58:14kcbannerso thats not a feature yet :P
23:58:27kcbannersansa has no usb support with rockbox?
23:58:36Domonoky_not on mp3 players which have software usb
23:58:40preglowbut it's being worked on
23:59:00 Quit Soap (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

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