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| 00:01:29 | Bagder | Casainho: the same name yes, but it's not used in the same builds |
| 00:01:31 | Casainho | Bagder: is that possible the same fucntion existe 2 times? |
| 00:01:37 | Bagder | it doesn't |
| 00:01:39 | Casainho | ah, okok :-) |
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| 00:03:16 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: because in certain situations buffer_handle will only buffer one chunk |
| 00:03:37 | jhMikeS | such as? and what for? |
| 00:03:42 | rasher | I suspect r15724 |
| 00:03:44 | Casainho | Bagder: |
| 00:03:46 | Casainho | static void wheel_light_dimming_tick(void) |
| 00:03:48 | Casainho | { |
| 00:03:49 | Casainho | //static bool flag_button_light = true; |
| 00:03:51 | Casainho | static unsigned char counter = 0; |
| 00:03:53 | Casainho | counter++; |
| 00:03:54 | Casainho | if (counter >= 25) |
| 00:03:56 | Bagder | please stop that |
| 00:03:56 | Casainho | { |
| 00:03:57 | Casainho | counter = 0; |
| 00:03:59 | Casainho | } |
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| 00:04:02 | Bagder | use a pastebin |
| 00:04:02 | Casainho | if (counter >= 19) |
| 00:04:03 | Casainho | { |
| 00:04:03 | Ctcp | Version from freenode-connect!freenode@freenode/bot/connect |
| 00:04:04 | Casainho | //Button light OFF. |
| 00:04:04 | Mode | "#rockbox +o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 00:04:05 | Casainho | GPIOG_OUTPUT_VAL &=~ 0x80; |
| 00:04:07 | Casainho | } |
| 00:04:09 | Casainho | |
| 00:04:11 | Casainho | else |
| 00:04:11 | Kick | (#rockbox Casainho :Bagder) by Bagder!n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder |
| 00:04:22 | rasher | I suspect r15724 will fix my "file operations unavailable during database update" problem. |
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| 00:04:29 | rasher | Time to test. |
| 00:04:39 | rasher | (on Sansa) |
| 00:04:40 | Mode | "#rockbox -o Bagder " by Bagder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 00:04:49 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: such as when there are several messages in the buffering queue |
| 00:05:05 | rasher | What happened to making all committers ops? |
| 00:05:06 | Nico_P | I'm not sure these situations really happen |
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| 00:05:59 | jhMikeS | if it needs to continue buffering, it should immediately go back to filling after a message really |
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| 00:06:35 | lostlogic | jhMikeS: yeah, it should, like I said, just an optimization |
| 00:06:36 | moos | rasher: the more ops will be, the better... |
| 00:07:25 | lostlogic | jhMikeS: the (purely theoretical) problem would be if the handle that is playing is not the first handle on buffer then it won't be the first handle hit with buffering and it could be a long time before it gets hit again |
| 00:07:59 | | Quit freqmod_nx (Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:08:19 | scorche|w | rasher: waiting on reply from t0mas |
| 00:08:30 | scorche|w | if anyone has a mail for him other than @rockbox.org... |
| 00:09:25 | rasher | Email: firstname at lastname.nl (firstname: Tomas, lastname: Salfischberger ofcourse) |
| 00:09:45 | preglow | argghgh |
| 00:09:58 | scorche|w | rasher: thanks |
| 00:10:07 | rasher | It's on his wikipage :) |
| 00:10:26 | jhMikeS | lostlogic: seems possible in any case |
| 00:11:41 | lostlogic | jhMikeS: any easy way to make the queue check happen 1/2 as often as the buffer level / yield/sleep check? :) |
| 00:13:18 | jhMikeS | why? if that's an issue, then something more robust needs doing. I mean, keep a counter but I refuse to go that road. You could put any handle as first. |
| 00:14:01 | jhMikeS | just because at least the guardbuf amout of data won't exist? |
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| 00:19:15 | lostlogic | jhMikeS: ideally I'd like to have the buffer_handle() call take 2 parameters −− handle and size −− and ensure that at least size additional data is buffered on the requested handle before ti returns |
| 00:19:16 | jhMikeS | if the linked list is circular, the first handle can move around the circle without the problem occurring |
| 00:19:20 | lostlogic | regardless of the queue |
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| 00:24:47 | preglow | jhMikeS: seems almost all of the new voice problems are tool problems... |
| 00:24:53 | preglow | so at least you did a good job :> |
| 00:25:06 | jhMikeS | :D |
| 00:25:22 | rasher | Why's voicebox still in the wiki anyway? |
| 00:25:30 | jhMikeS | preglow: thanks, but you had more boring tool stuff to program |
| 00:25:48 | preglow | damn straight |
| 00:26:14 | preglow | rasher: i'm more concerned with why the ml is full of reports on it not working |
| 00:27:00 | jhMikeS | VB = Vomit, Basic |
| 00:27:19 | barrywardell | Bagder: did you see earlier that I fixed my build server problem? |
| 00:27:43 | Bagder | ah no, great. thanks for poking me |
| 00:28:18 | preglow | jhMikeS: yeah, the fact that i can't try it doesn't make it any easier |
| 00:28:19 | barrywardell | I was just missing the zip program |
| 00:28:26 | Bagder | ah, hehe |
| 00:28:28 | preglow | i think i'll just go finally bloody add rbutil support |
| 00:28:58 | jhMikeS | That's not so bad since it's C++ at least |
| 00:29:36 | zicho | Rockbox on Zune? Is it possible? |
| 00:29:59 | Llorean | zicho: In theory, but nobody's working on it, so it'll probably never happen. |
| 00:30:12 | zicho | Haha, nobody wants zune. |
| 00:30:13 | | Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:30:28 | Bagder | well, if you want rockbox don't buy a zune |
| 00:30:57 | zicho | I wont. |
| 00:31:35 | barrywardell | hmmm. maybe I should have bumped the version of e200rpatcher before building those binaries |
| 00:32:31 | Bagder | haha |
| 00:32:43 | | Quit linuxstb ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]") |
| 00:33:35 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 00:33:51 | linuxstb | barrywardell: We still could... I don't mind building another win32 binary. |
| 00:34:07 | barrywardell | yeah, I can build linux and mac binaries |
| 00:34:27 | | Join Calcipher [0] (n=Calciphe@ool-18bab657.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:34:43 | barrywardell | what has changed in this version? |
| 00:34:48 | linuxstb | If we can catch Bagder before he goes to sleep... |
| 00:34:59 | Bagder | sure, I'll stick around until you're done |
| 00:35:03 | linuxstb | Nothing in e200rpatcher.c I think - just the addition of those extra checks in the ARM binary. |
| 00:35:50 | barrywardell | yes, ok. I'll bump the e200rpatcher version and build new binaries now... |
| 00:36:09 | barrywardell | 0.2-svn OK for the new version? |
| 00:36:13 | linuxstb | Or just 0.2 |
| 00:36:18 | barrywardell | OK |
| 00:36:24 | Bagder | 0.2 gets my vote |
| 00:36:32 | barrywardell | 0.2 it is |
| 00:36:45 | linuxstb | We're open source, so obviously can't reach 1.0 for a few years... |
| 00:37:37 | barrywardell | linuxstb: committed. can you build the windows binary? |
| 00:37:56 | | Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:39:58 | linuxstb | Done - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/e200rpatcher-win32.zip |
| 00:40:10 | | Quit ender (" Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean I") |
| 00:40:48 | | Part hunz |
| 00:41:29 | linuxstb | barrywardell: Shall I tag the release? |
| 00:41:37 | barrywardell | yeah, good idea |
| 00:42:17 | barrywardell | hmm. can't login to my 64 bit linux machine right now to build that one |
| 00:43:01 | barrywardell | here are the other two versions: barrywardell.net/rockbox/e200rpatcher.mac">http://www.barrywardell.net/rockbox/e200rpatcher.mac http://www.barrywardell.net/rockbox/e200rpatcher.linux32 |
| 00:44:44 | barrywardell | and the bootloader binary: barrywardell.net/rockbox/bootloader.bin">http://www.barrywardell.net/rockbox/bootloader.bin |
| 00:45:25 | Bagder | they're all in place now |
| 00:45:57 | barrywardell | thanks, I'll send the linux64 one in the morning |
| 00:48:09 | | Nick roolku_ is now known as roolku (n=roolku@82-41-2-141.cable.ubr01.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
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| 00:51:06 | | Nick Weiss_ is now known as Weiss (i=taw27@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk) |
| 00:51:20 | preglow | jmspeex: around? |
| 00:51:26 | jmworx | preglow: yes |
| 00:51:55 | preglow | jmworx: i see that even speexenc followed by speexdec yields a slightly delayed output in comparison with the wav input before encoding, any way to avoid that? |
| 00:52:28 | jmworx | preglow: your're seeing that all the time or just with the −−force-* options? |
| 00:52:48 | preglow | jmworx: well, just tried it now, not svn speexenc/dec, though |
| 00:52:49 | preglow | wb mode |
| 00:53:06 | preglow | no force, no nothing, as a matter of fact, just plain enc/dec |
| 00:53:12 | jmworx | preglow: BTW, could you fill in this survey in case you haven't already? http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=wo0h_2f9rYdspRyvNpOs4OLA_3d_3d |
| 00:53:29 | preglow | jmworx: sure |
| 00:54:17 | jmworx | preglow: if it's a short file, it's normal. For longer files (more than about 8 kB once encoded), it shouldn't happen though |
| 00:55:01 | preglow | jmworx: short file indeed, why does it happen? |
| 00:55:57 | jmworx | preglow: basically, speexdec uses some computation based on the granulepos to discard samples from both the first and last page. |
| 00:56:14 | preglow | ahh, yes, saw that |
| 00:56:24 | jmworx | Unfortunately, since there's only one granulepos per frame, if the first frame is also the last frame, we're screwed |
| 00:57:12 | preglow | that's probably the reason, the clip is about 2kb compressed, heh |
| 00:58:36 | | Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world") |
| 00:58:44 | | Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC") |
| 00:59:35 | preglow | jmworx: so the decoder lookahead only compensates for decoder latency? you'll basically need to transmit encoder latency in some other way? |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:05 | jmworx | preglow: It's encoder latency that's transmitted indirectly through the granulepos. |
| 01:00:10 | | Quit ompaul (Client Quit) |
| 01:00:14 | preglow | that's what i expected, yes |
| 01:00:17 | jmworx | (because the decoder obviously knows how much latency it adds) |
| 01:00:26 | preglow | well, ok |
| 01:00:32 | preglow | i guess i'll just ignore encoder latency |
| 01:00:39 | preglow | it's so short anyway |
| 01:01:12 | jmworx | well, in the current implementation, latency is split half-half between encoder and decoder. |
| 01:01:29 | preglow | isn't the encoder latency slightly bigger? |
| 01:01:32 | jmworx | (it used to be that the encoder had more than the decoder) |
| 01:01:35 | preglow | ahh, no |
| 01:01:42 | preglow | windowsize is framesize+subframesize |
| 01:01:56 | jmworx | for narrowband, latency is now split 5/5, but it used to be 10/0 |
| 01:02:27 | preglow | which gives a latency of subframesize, same as for decoder |
| 01:03:30 | preglow | jmworx: btw, for the memset/cpy stuff, should i add a speex_memcpy? and what's the point with those wrappers anyway, isn't mem* always supposed to be pretty well optimized anyway? |
| 01:03:57 | amiconn | preglow: Bah, didn't check all code paths and forgot to dim a variable. Trivial fix... |
| 01:04:11 | | Quit rasher ("leaving") |
| 01:04:13 | preglow | amiconn: yeah, brian posted one the ml. you're on it? |
| 01:05:02 | | Quit japc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:05:04 | jmworx | preglow: I think memmove should be pretty much as fast as memcpy now, right? |
| 01:05:23 | jmworx | (i.e. it's just a simple test to figure out whether you can use the same algo as memcpy) |
| 01:05:27 | preglow | jmworx: memmove is basically memcpy + one other code path and an if, so yeah, more or less as fast |
| 01:05:52 | preglow | jmworx: but then again, another wrapper is four lines of code |
| 01:06:24 | amiconn | I've seen memmove() implementations of vastly varying quality |
| 01:06:36 | preglow | another good reason to use memcpy when you can |
| 01:06:51 | jmworx | preglow: wrapper doesn't make the code bigger because it's inline and it makes it easier for someone to entirely remove the dependenty on libc |
| 01:06:53 | preglow | jmworx: and almost all occurences of for () i've replaced in nb_celp and sb_celp can be done using memcpy |
| 01:06:54 | amiconn | A proper implementation should be as fast as memcpy(), with just the additional overlap/direction check |
| 01:06:56 | jmworx | dependency |
| 01:07:30 | amiconn | Some cheap implementations resort to trivial byte copying on overlap |
| 01:07:48 | preglow | amiconn: i've seen one of those too... |
| 01:08:08 | amiconn | The rockbox implementations are clear |
| 01:08:56 | amiconn | However, I still want to tame that monster named coldfire memcpy+memmove. It's fast, but a code monster... |
| 01:09:05 | preglow | yeah, it's pretty huge |
| 01:09:05 | preglow | heh |
| 01:09:08 | * | amiconn wrote it :\ |
| 01:09:28 | amiconn | Almost 2KB for the whole thing iirc |
| 01:10:21 | | Join rasher [0] (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher) |
| 01:10:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:10:56 | | Quit austriancoder ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 01:12:36 | preglow | but it is fast :P |
| 01:13:39 | | Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@c210-49-113-143.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 01:13:55 | jmworx | preglow: But how much does it slow down (or make other code slow down) because of I cache trashing? |
| 01:14:53 | linuxstb | It's in IRAM - so not cached. |
| 01:15:17 | amiconn | Yeah, it chips away ~4% of core iram :\ |
| 01:15:28 | preglow | jmworx: using speex_resampler_skip_zeros() basically allows me to ignore resampler latency, yes? |
| 01:15:32 | jmworx | if you've got a high "i cache pressure", then it could be responsible for 4 kB of instruction transfer due to cache flushing every time you call it. |
| 01:16:28 | jmworx | preglow: it doesn't make the latency go away, but it discards the leading zeros caused by latency |
| 01:16:45 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 01:17:02 | preglow | jmworx: yes, which does kind of make it not exist as far as the caller is concerned |
| 01:17:12 | preglow | as long as you're aware that the first block size is smaller, etc |
| 01:19:51 | | Join japc [0] (n=japc@bl7-247-152.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 01:22:20 | preglow | amiconn: did you upload a new voicebox? |
| 01:22:28 | amiconn | yepp |
| 01:22:32 | preglow | excellent |
| 01:23:22 | Soap | desowin (for the logs) - thank you for adding your battery bench to SansaRuntime. |
| 01:23:46 | preglow | amiconn: "make voice" is the only way to make voice files as of now, yes? |
| 01:23:57 | * | rasher makes some more noise in favour of putting voicebox in SVN |
| 01:24:09 | rasher | preglow: Correct |
| 01:24:28 | barrywardell | Bagder: if you're still around, I managed to build the linux64 version too. here's the updated tarball with t hem all: barrywardell.net/rockbox/e200rpatcher.tar.gz">http://www.barrywardell.net/rockbox/e200rpatcher.tar.gz |
| 01:24:37 | preglow | rasher: feel free to slap a gpl license on it and put it in svn |
| 01:24:48 | preglow | minus the binaries, of course |
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| 01:25:01 | rasher | Converting MakeVoices.vbs would be a nightmare, since it needs part of the build system (because of the features feature and target_id) |
| 01:25:14 | rasher | unless those informations are made available online or something |
| 01:25:45 | preglow | yeah |
| 01:26:22 | amiconn | Why would we need to convert MakeVoices? |
| 01:26:36 | preglow | we don't need that, no... |
| 01:26:43 | preglow | i'd rather make rbutil better |
| 01:26:52 | amiconn | The current method works rather well in all supported build environments |
| 01:27:21 | rasher | amiconn: Well we don't need to at all. Some people would like it, is all |
| 01:31:31 | * | amiconn thinks that scripting is more flexible than an executable like rbutil |
| 01:31:50 | amiconn | And we need information from the buid system (features.txt etc) |
| 01:32:08 | rasher | preglow: you want to add voice-making ability to rbutil? |
| 01:32:17 | amiconn | Btw, there's a dependency bug - features.txt doesn't get rebuilt when target features change |
| 01:32:19 | Calcipher | hey rasher, how does it look for commiting the db voice support? |
| 01:32:51 | rasher | Calcipher: not very good. The current solution is rather half-baked |
| 01:33:08 | Calcipher | ah |
| 01:33:54 | | Quit iamben (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:34:04 | preglow | rasher: not really, no |
| 01:34:04 | Calcipher | I was never able to try it to see how well it performed, I never got past the strange errors |
| 01:34:15 | preglow | rasher: i'm just going to add rbspeexenc support |
| 01:34:22 | rasher | It needs a fix either on the script side or in the code. I'm not sure which one is better or easier. |
| 01:34:28 | preglow | i'm _dying_ to dive back to more low-level stuff here |
| 01:34:46 | rasher | Calcipher: well, it can voice tags, but not stuff like "01 - title" −− only "title" |
| 01:35:05 | rasher | Ie. any string that consists of more than a single tag won't be voiced |
| 01:35:18 | Calcipher | ah |
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| 01:36:40 | Calcipher | I still would have liked to try it out, so how exactly is the voice data stored?, is it one large file for the entire db? that wouldn't work so I'm guessing its small clips per tag stored in that default location, thats a great idea btw, to centralize clips in a location |
| 01:37:30 | Calcipher | well that too can be a problem for clean up, when you for example get rid of a folder, and then the voice data still remains in the default clip location |
| 01:37:31 | rasher | That's what it does. In fact, the code already does look for voice clips for the database strings (just in / rather than inside a specific dir) |
| 01:39:02 | preglow | amiconn: didn't "make voice" need a c compiler before rbspeexenc? |
| 01:39:20 | | Join iamben [0] (n=ben@ppp-70-134-48-176.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net) |
| 01:39:39 | amiconn | In theory it should only require the preprocessor, if rbspeexnc is already compiled |
| 01:39:55 | amiconn | Due to another dependency bug, 'make voice' also compiles the bitmaps... |
| 01:40:35 | rasher | I've prodded Bagder about this, but judging by his reaction it won't be easy to fix |
| 01:40:38 | amiconn | rasher: Storing a ton of .talk clips sounds like an insane idea... |
| 01:40:59 | amiconn | ...even more insane than file .talk clips, which I never use due to that very reason |
| 01:41:17 | rasher | Why? It's not *that* many more than .talk clips |
| 01:41:17 | amiconn | Even a tiny file always takes a full cluster on FAT |
| 01:41:45 | amiconn | And a cluster can be as large as 32KB |
| 01:41:57 | rasher | So you suggest creating a giant ball of concatenated clips? |
| 01:42:13 | amiconn | I would simply drop the idea of using clips for the database |
| 01:42:20 | rasher | In favour of what? |
| 01:42:22 | Calcipher | what would be best for disk reads? |
| 01:42:27 | amiconn | There's already spelling, and numbering |
| 01:42:42 | rasher | Both vastly inferior to .talk clips |
| 01:42:44 | amiconn | Both require no spinup and no additional work |
| 01:42:52 | Calcipher | so, you use spelling and numbering? |
| 01:43:04 | amiconn | Other than that, it would be an idea task for a tts engine |
| 01:43:38 | Llorean | Why not create a .voice file for each of the database tcd files? |
| 01:43:45 | amiconn | Calcipher: I use file browser mode in 99.9% of all usage cases. For directories, I do use clips, for files, I just use numbers + file type announcing |
| 01:44:13 | preglow | amiconn: in theory, sure, but did it need a c compiler? there's a guy on the ml that doesn't seem to have a compiler installed that now complains voices won't build |
| 01:44:23 | preglow | also, how do you install a c compiler in cygwin? |
| 01:44:25 | amiconn | For me, the database is just a tool to spot typos in tags, and very rarely, duplicates |
| 01:44:42 | rasher | amiconn: so you don't use .talk clips and find them wasteful. Fine, but I don't see why it's so insane. If people want .talk clips, and they very clearly do, it should work for the database as well. |
| 01:44:45 | Calcipher | I see |
| 01:45:08 | amiconn | rasher: I do use them, but sparsely, i.e. for directories only |
| 01:45:47 | amiconn | preglow: You just use the cygwin installer, which works like a typical, graphical linux package manager |
| 01:46:05 | preglow | what is the package named? i need something to point this guy to |
| 01:46:25 | amiconn | something gcc ... |
| 01:46:35 | Calcipher | I don't see why the database is ignored by so many users, It feels like a much easier and organized way to get to the music you want, for example you can play all of one artists tracks even if they're in separate directories, and this requires no creation of a playlist, or just listen to an entire album |
| 01:46:48 | amiconn | I think you can go without a crosscompiler if you just want to build voice, if you select a sim |
| 01:47:03 | * | amiconn disagrees with Calcipher |
| 01:47:16 | lostlogic | sansa has pretty nice battery life. |
| 01:47:29 | rasher | Database is an additional tool - it can do some things that the filetree can't, but not everyone wants those things. |
| 01:47:34 | * | preglow isn't cut out for mailing lists |
| 01:47:51 | * | scorche gets along famously with filetrees |
| 01:47:53 | rasher | preglow: the package just named 'gcc' |
| 01:48:31 | amiconn | preglow: But if a crosscompiler is needed, www.rockbox.org provides cygwin packages for those |
| 01:48:55 | amiconn | Compiling those yourself can take a few hours... |
| 01:49:09 | preglow | ahhhh, cygwin... |
| 01:49:10 | amiconn | And for some reason, the multilib patch for arm doesn't work on cygwin... |
| 01:49:11 | rasher | on a fast computer. |
| 01:49:40 | amiconn | rasher: For me, it's around 1.5 hours per architecture iirc |
| 01:49:47 | Calcipher | yeah it took me about an hour and change when I compiled |
| 01:49:53 | amiconn | On a 4 years old laptop |
| 01:50:42 | | Part pixelma |
| 01:50:56 | preglow | amiconn: btw, going to add narrowband mode in the encoder soon |
| 01:51:02 | preglow | got it going here, just need to test a bit more |
| 01:51:45 | * | amiconn wonders what's up with the multilib patch |
| 01:51:53 | preglow | as a matter of fact, i think i'll just commit it now |
| 01:52:02 | preglow | linuxstb: could you provide me with a windows binary? |
| 01:52:09 | amiconn | It compiles without errors, but 'make instal' just decides there's nothing to do for most folders |
| 01:52:43 | amiconn | preglow: If you commit, providing a windows binary is a simple thing |
| 01:52:50 | | Quit hcs ("Leaving.") |
| 01:52:55 | amiconn | The next 'make voice' on my side would rebuild it |
| 01:52:57 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 01:53:20 | preglow | testet with nb mode now, and it works ok, but the clicking is back :/ |
| 01:53:29 | preglow | i'll need to figure that out before i do anything else |
| 01:53:31 | amiconn | Crosscompiled win32 binaries tend to be larger for some reason (but maybe not when they're stripped) |
| 01:54:35 | rasher | JdGordon: I don't think that "ipod+car" task you just closed was accessory related |
| 01:56:28 | | Quit mokkurkalve (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:57:07 | | Join EternalRains [0] (n=root@c-24-129-34-14.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:44 | | Part EternalRains ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 02:03:09 | preglow | hrm |
| 02:03:19 | preglow | just compensating for encoder lookahead isn't enough for nb mode |
| 02:04:32 | preglow | amiconn: this silence thing really doesn't seem to be working out on swcodec right now, i wonder why |
| 02:05:01 | JdGordon | rasher: sure it is..... |
| 02:05:39 | rasher | JdGordon: then why did he mention usb? |
| 02:05:51 | JdGordon | coz thats how you connect it to the car? |
| 02:05:57 | JdGordon | unless... ohh..... umm... |
| 02:06:03 | | Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:06:23 | rasher | Not that it isn't a support request, but I think it's simply one of those car stereos that have a usb plug |
| 02:06:32 | | Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 02:06:34 | JdGordon | yeah could be... |
| 02:06:36 | JdGordon | oh well... |
| 02:06:42 | * | JdGordon gone |
| 02:07:07 | preglow | jmworx: basically, if i just make sure to add 'lookahead' samples of zeros at the end of a clip i encode, everything in that clip should be encoded correctly, right? |
| 02:07:19 | | Quit zicho (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:10:52 | preglow | jhMikeS: around? |
| 02:11:23 | markun | preglow: jmworx or jmspeex? |
| 02:11:49 | markun | (or is it the same person?) |
| 02:12:02 | markun | ah, never mind |
| 02:12:12 | | Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 02:12:13 | preglow | markun: same person, different context :) |
| 02:12:20 | * | markun goes back to sleep :) |
| 02:12:21 | | Join johnf1911 [0] (n=johnf@toronto-hs-216-138-194-136.s-ip.magma.ca) |
| 02:13:12 | jhMikeS | preglow: yah |
| 02:13:21 | johnf1911 | I have an iRiver H120 with boatloader v5, when I try to install a recent version of rockbox, I invariably get a invalid instruction error |
| 02:13:36 | johnf1911 | should I update the bootloader? what bootloader is required for what version of firmware, and how can I tell? |
| 02:13:56 | jhMikeS | might be a good idea to update |
| 02:14:13 | johnf1911 | what is the current version? I haven't been able to figure out how it works |
| 02:14:35 | | Join UncleRem1s [0] (n=caj@81-234-174-183-no95.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 02:15:05 | jhMikeS | I have v6 on mine and it's just fine. |
| 02:15:29 | markun | johnf1911: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverBoot |
| 02:15:50 | preglow | jhMikeS: you sure the silence clip stuff works? |
| 02:16:15 | | Quit hcs (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:16:32 | jhMikeS | if it gives it to the thread to play, then it should. |
| 02:17:06 | preglow | hrm, i wonder why this clicking occurs :/ |
| 02:17:11 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 02:17:49 | | Quit billenium ("Ex-Chat") |
| 02:18:03 | jhMikeS | did debugf show that the silence if clause was being reached? |
| 02:18:39 | | Join billenium [0] (n=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:18:44 | johnf1911 | bah, it's clearly going to be a lot easier to patch the firmware on windows |
| 02:18:45 | preglow | jhMikeS: it did, just as it should |
| 02:19:02 | | Quit UncleRemus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:19:06 | preglow | i've gotten rid of the clicking by properly taking lookahead into account in rbspeexenc, but it doesn't work in nb mode |
| 02:19:13 | | Quit billenium (Client Quit) |
| 02:19:27 | jhMikeS | ever try comparing the output to concatenating an encoded clip with a silence clip and decoding that outside the fw? |
| 02:20:11 | preglow | i actually just did, and even that result surprised me somewhat, the filter went on ringing far longer than one frame |
| 02:20:54 | jhMikeS | no way to force mute the filter softly? |
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| 02:21:13 | preglow | well, it should just die out after a frame or so |
| 02:21:50 | jhMikeS | it does that in the non-rockboxed libspeex code? |
| 02:22:10 | preglow | didn't try, but i really haven't changed that part |
| 02:22:25 | preglow | but anyway, if i encode an extra zero frame, then even the nb mode doesn't click |
| 02:22:50 | preglow | but after taking into account the lookahead, that zero frame really shouldn't be necessary because of the silence clip |
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| 02:25:12 | | Quit iamben (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:25:17 | jhMikeS | can you pick and choose original vs. asm filters to narrow it down to something. I mean it not supposed to ring that long, so...hmmm |
| 02:25:21 | preglow | apparently, there is no end to the voicebox complaints |
| 02:25:30 | jhMikeS | aye |
| 02:25:41 | jhMikeS | what's the problem now? |
| 02:25:45 | preglow | jhMikeS: i'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with it, i've comparaed both qmf and iir to c results, and they're bit identical |
| 02:25:51 | preglow | jhMikeS: some shortcut creation stuff |
| 02:26:17 | jhMikeS | broken? |
| 02:26:34 | preglow | no idea |
| 02:27:03 | | Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!") |
| 02:27:53 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:27:53 | | Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 02:29:52 | Llorean | Why does voice creation require GCC again? |
| 02:30:03 | preglow | right now, for compiling the encoder |
| 02:30:09 | Llorean | Or more specifically, why can't it be made to run without GCC assuming the presence of a (language).lang file? |
| 02:30:28 | Llorean | I thought the .voice file required a dev environment for something else too? |
| 02:30:37 | preglow | for parsing features |
| 02:30:37 | Llorean | Determining device capabilities or something? |
| 02:30:45 | preglow | i guess |
| 02:30:52 | rasher | That's done with cpp, I believe |
| 02:31:08 | Llorean | Could it be bypassed with the presence of a .lang? |
| 02:31:28 | Llorean | For the people who just want to create .voices, and nothing else, and don't want cygwin? |
| 02:31:32 | rasher | that would require to completely rework how voice files are built |
| 02:31:56 | Llorean | Ah, okay. |
| 02:32:39 | Llorean | Where do the voice strings come from, then? |
| 02:33:26 | rasher | Well, they come from the lang file, but in combination with genlang and a target-id (and features) |
| 02:33:40 | rasher | you *can* run voice.pl directly and get a voicefile |
| 02:33:52 | Llorean | With langv2 aren't .lang files also target-specific? |
| 02:34:02 | Llorean | Or, wait, that's .lng rather? |
| 02:34:08 | rasher | Yes. |
| 02:34:13 | rasher | But then .lng doesn't contain the voice strings |
| 02:34:18 | Llorean | Gotcha |
| 02:34:24 | | Quit Arathis2 ("Bye, bye") |
| 02:35:14 | Llorean | Nevermind me then. |
| 02:35:37 | preglow | i wonder if i should just do a new rbspeexenc release for the fixed wb clips and put in a note that nb mode is glitchy |
| 02:35:42 | rasher | You can do something like voice.pl -V -l=english -t=h120:recording:otherfeatureshere -i=7 -e=rbspeexenc -E="-c10 -q 4" -s=flite -S="" |
| 02:35:46 | rasher | and get a working voicefile |
| 02:35:56 | rasher | Using only genlang, rbspeexenc and english.lang |
| 02:36:45 | amiconn | Plus wavtrim, voicefont, and for windows, sapi_voice.vbs |
| 02:36:45 | rasher | Piecing together the target-string isn't trivial, but could be made available online |
| 02:36:50 | rasher | ah yes |
| 02:36:54 | rasher | and voice.pl of course |
| 02:37:34 | johnf1911 | upgrading the bootloader to V6 won't introduce problems booting my current rockbox image, will it? |
| 02:37:39 | Llorean | Or batch files that already include the target string? |
| 02:38:04 | rasher | Llorean: sure, it's only a matter of saving features.txt from the daily builds |
| 02:38:05 | amiconn | The features list might change from time to time |
| 02:38:19 | amiconn | Happened at least 2 times in the last weeks |
| 02:38:19 | rasher | or current builds, of course |
| 02:38:31 | | Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:38:38 | Llorean | Just wondering, because Cygwin seems to be mildly horrible for blind users, from the sounds of it |
| 02:39:12 | rasher | amiconn: the build server could piece together a decent .bat file that would allow users to build voice files fairly easily given the needed tools |
| 02:39:28 | amiconn | I think it would be better to provide a more complete set of voice files (e.g. more languages than just english) |
| 02:39:47 | rasher | Not really mutually exclusive, or even related |
| 02:39:52 | Llorean | amiconn: But it's likely there will always be voices people want to use that we don't have, or differing rate desires, etc. |
| 02:40:08 | amiconn | Yes, sure. |
| 02:40:13 | Llorean | Though, wasn't there talk of time compression for playback recently? |
| 02:40:47 | preglow | yes there was |
| 02:41:46 | preglow | amiconn: eh? it's possible to install gcc and not cc1.exe in cygwin? |
| 02:41:52 | | Quit weezerle ("...und tschüss!") |
| 02:42:00 | amiconn | Not normally |
| 02:42:09 | preglow | well, this guy has apparently managed it |
| 02:42:29 | amiconn | People manage to do all sorts of weird things |
| 02:44:02 | | Quit midkay_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:46:38 | amiconn | preglow: Shortcut problem fixed as well, btw. Mrf :\ |
| 02:46:56 | preglow | \o/ |
| 02:47:19 | preglow | updated wiki? |
| 02:47:23 | | Join webguest73 [0] (i=cfe966c8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2a888ed82555f29e) |
| 02:47:38 | amiconn | Unfortunately vbscript does only find undeclared variables if you're actually executing that code path |
| 02:48:05 | | Quit webguest73 (Client Quit) |
| 02:48:56 | preglow | many languages share that trait |
| 02:49:49 | | Quit Rondom (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:49:58 | rasher | Hm, need the target_id as well as apps/feature. I wonder if the daily-build script could pick this out and put it in a .bat file |
| 02:50:57 | preglow | amiconn: but you updated the wiki, yes? i don't know what time it is in the server place, so can't check the time stamp :/ |
| 02:51:13 | amiconn | eh? |
| 02:51:30 | amiconn | The server is in Sweden hence the same time zone as you (and me) |
| 02:51:37 | amiconn | But yes, it's updated |
| 02:52:00 | preglow | amiconn: the server time is most definitely not the same as my time |
| 02:52:08 | rasher | But parts of the website is utc |
| 02:52:32 | preglow | yep |
| 02:52:35 | amiconn | The script that puts the time stamp onto the front page didn't notice the change yet |
| 02:52:36 | preglow | and which parts i do not know |
| 02:53:06 | johnf1911 | sweeeet |
| 02:53:11 | johnf1911 | I can now run current builds |
| 02:53:14 | johnf1911 | thanks a lot for the help! |
| 02:53:19 | preglow | amiconn: also, some people say that selecting speex as an encoder still produces mp3 files, any idea about that? |
| 02:53:28 | amiconn | uh? |
| 02:53:37 | preglow | *shrug* |
| 02:53:39 | amiconn | Then the clips on my swcodec targets wouldn't work... |
| 02:53:40 | preglow | i only know what they say |
| 02:53:46 | preglow | When I run the new voice box that was posted, I've noticed that I have two radio buttons for speex but they seem to make mp3 format files that don't play on my mp3 player. am I doing anything wrong? |
| 02:54:26 | rasher | At least this tells me that I was right in creating voice.pl with the assumption that different encoders would be needed eventually |
| 02:55:46 | preglow | sure, i just needed to get around to it :) i've been talking about speex voice files for over a year now |
| 02:56:12 | * | amiconn retries |
| 02:56:34 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:58:13 | Soap | amiconn, I know you are neck deep in other tasks, but would you like Santa to drop one of these: http://www.rush2112.net/mkportal/modules/oscommerce/product_info.php?products_id=34 into your Christmas stocking? |
| 02:58:48 | preglow | amiconn: but ok, do you have time to compile a new rbspeexenc shortly? |
| 02:59:37 | preglow | just one more wb test here, and i'll commit it |
| 03:00 |
| 03:02:46 | preglow | forget that, i still get clicks for some rare cases... |
| 03:03:22 | | Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay) |
| 03:03:30 | | Join daurnimator [0] (n=daurn@203.49.182.217) |
| 03:03:40 | | Quit daurn ("Cyas") |
| 03:07:59 | billenium | bbl |
| 03:08:02 | amiconn | preglow: Must be the second problem then; both speex and mp3 clip creation works as it should here |
| 03:09:21 | | Quit roolku () |
| 03:10:32 | preglow | i assume so |
| 03:10:40 | * | preglow wishes he could have speex not click :/ |
| 03:10:47 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:14:19 | | Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) |
| 03:14:25 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 03:15:05 | preglow | jmworx: why do you sometimes copy an excitation array before passing it to iir_mem16? it's capable of taking a separate in and out array parameter, so copying first shouldn't be necessary |
| 03:15:28 | jhMikeS | preglow: then bail out and don't allow nb for now :p |
| 03:15:43 | preglow | jhMikeS: i've made wb mode click again |
| 03:15:59 | preglow | way more seldom than before, but i can make it do so |
| 03:15:59 | jhMikeS | don't say that! :\ |
| 03:17:01 | preglow | this is nothing an extra encoded zero frame can't fix, but it'd like to hear if jmworx has any clever ideas first |
| 03:17:06 | preglow | but seems like that'll be tomorrow, bedtime now |
| 03:17:46 | preglow | i still wonder why silence clips don't work, though |
| 03:18:05 | jhMikeS | should really try a manual concat for that |
| 03:18:18 | preglow | i guess so, but that'll also be tomorrow |
| 03:18:20 | * | preglow bails out |
| 03:18:21 | preglow | gnight |
| 03:18:24 | jhMikeS | night |
| 03:23:13 | jmworx | preglow: what do you mean about the iir_mem16 copy? |
| 03:24:54 | preglow | jhMikeS: ok, i just had to check that out before going to bed, it works fine with a manual concat |
| 03:25:35 | preglow | jmworx: well, nb_celp.c:1242, for example, why not just pass st->exc as the first parameter? |
| 03:25:41 | preglow | the copy seems kind of redundant |
| 03:26:49 | jmworx | preglow: exc is a 32-bit var isn't it? |
| 03:26:50 | preglow | the same is done a couple of other places |
| 03:27:12 | preglow | jmworx: well, weird, iir_mem16 takes a spx_word16_t* as param |
| 03:27:34 | jmworx | oh, ok it no longer is, which is probably why... |
| 03:27:41 | preglow | :) |
| 03:27:43 | | Quit homielowe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 03:27:54 | preglow | both exc and out are spx_word16_t |
| 03:28:55 | jmworx | Yeah, I changed a lot of code around beta1 and beta2 and might have left some redundant/useless stuff |
| 03:29:23 | preglow | nice to have me trawling through it, then :) |
| 03:30:35 | preglow | jmworx: it looks to me like the filter can be left ringing for more than a frame if only null modes are used after an ordinary frame, is that so? |
| 03:32:15 | jmworx | can be left?? |
| 03:33:31 | preglow | well, will be ringing |
| 03:34:21 | jmworx | preglow: in theory, it'll ring to infinity because it's an IIR filter. In practice, I'm pretty sure you can cut after one frame, no? |
| 03:34:37 | preglow | jmworx: well, sure, but you seem to be limiting the coefs for each frame with bw_lpc |
| 03:34:53 | jmworx | euh?? |
| 03:35:30 | jmworx | bw_lpc has nothing to do with ringing and it's an encode-only thing to approximate psychoacoustics stuff |
| 03:35:41 | | Join psycho_maniac [0] (i=psycho_m@ppp130.hk.centurytel.net) |
| 03:35:51 | jhMikeS | preglow: hmmm...the bit cursor is being reset so that's the only diff I can imagine |
| 03:36:45 | preglow | jmworx: encode only it's not, it's used for null mode decoding |
| 03:36:56 | preglow | jmworx: but yeah, i did misunderstand what it does |
| 03:38:00 | jmworx | preglow: Oh, on decoding it has a completely different purpose. Basically, it moves all the poles in-wards so that ringing is shorter |
| 03:38:05 | preglow | jhMikeS: weird, then, "twenty" clip plus silence on target clicks, the same concatted by hand here and decoded with what is essentially the voice thread code gives a nice fade |
| 03:38:39 | jhMikeS | you sure that use of speex_bits_remaining() < 8 is the right thing? |
| 03:39:09 | jmworx | speex_bits_remaining() < 8 looks wrong |
| 03:39:18 | jmworx | A valid frame can be only 5 bits |
| 03:39:41 | preglow | hmm |
| 03:39:46 | preglow | very true |
| 03:40:16 | jhMikeS | speex_bit_remaining() < 0 should end the clip, correct? |
| 03:40:18 | | Join btwizt [0] (n=CAKline@bry-edo-76-76-33-113.wls.metalink.net) |
| 03:40:38 | jhMikeS | looking in speex.c, that is what's done |
| 03:40:39 | preglow | but we might also have 0-7 bits left which are just left over |
| 03:40:57 | preglow | and don't represent a frame at all |
| 03:41:26 | | Join iamben [0] (n=ben@adsl-75-50-50-144.dsl.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:41:31 | jhMikeS | I see what's up with that. I need to check for end of stream |
| 03:41:39 | jmworx | jhMikeS: how the hell can speex_bit_remaining() < 0 ?? |
| 03:41:56 | jmworx | jhMikeS: you're aware that speex_decode_int(0 actually tells you when you're done, are you? |
| 03:42:01 | preglow | jhMikeS: basically, only one bit of that last byte might be valid data |
| 03:42:03 | jmworx | i.e. handles all that logic |
| 03:42:43 | preglow | jmworx: well, it does, but that way we might get an extra null frame we didn't actually encode |
| 03:42:47 | preglow | but i guess that's not much of a problem... |
| 03:42:54 | preglow | and as it is right now, i don't see how we can avoid it |
| 03:42:56 | jhMikeS | heh. I went for speex.c on the API reference in part. |
| 03:43:01 | jmworx | preglow: No, you won't get anything you didn't encode |
| 03:44:39 | * | preglow goes to find out how speex_bits_write() works |
| 03:45:03 | jmworx | preglow: When you call speex_bits_write, it appends a "terminator code" that speex_decode knows about |
| 03:45:08 | preglow | ahhhhh |
| 03:45:11 | preglow | then yes |
| 03:45:16 | preglow | we don't need that < 8 stuff |
| 03:45:19 | jmworx | So if you want to decode everything, you just call speex_decode() in a loop until it returns -1. |
| 03:45:20 | preglow | not at all |
| 03:45:52 | jmworx | When you get -1, it means "couldn't decode anything else" (and *not* it's the last one). |
| 03:48:47 | preglow | oh well, it didn't help for this clip anyway |
| 03:49:06 | preglow | but we'll see if it makes a difference on targets |
| 03:50:32 | jhMikeS | testing speex_bits_decode() < 0 is a safe test? I want to get the next data from the callback on both end and error to avoid if (ret = -1 || ret = -2) cruft. |
| 03:50:58 | jmworx | jhMikeS: testing speex_bits_decode() < 0 is a stupid test |
| 03:51:05 | jmworx | oh sorry |
| 03:51:22 | jmworx | I thought you had written speex_bits_remaining :-) |
| 03:51:36 | jhMikeS | no, no :-) getting rid of that. |
| 03:51:43 | jmworx | yes, it's fine, although there's two things that can be < 0 |
| 03:51:58 | jmworx | -1 means nothing left, whereas -2 means there was some corruption |
| 03:52:06 | jhMikeS | I'm not concern with which reason in this particular case |
| 03:52:21 | jhMikeS | since the same action is needed |
| 03:53:50 | preglow | jmworx: so let me see if i've gotten it straight, there should be no need to encode anything more than 'lookahead' samples extra to ensure the encoder has output all you'll need to reconstruct your audio clip? |
| 03:54:25 | jmworx | right |
| 03:54:39 | preglow | good, then any remaining problem has to do with us not decoding enough null frames |
| 03:54:46 | | Quit iamben_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 03:54:57 | jmworx | actually, there's also the decoder lookahead |
| 03:55:14 | preglow | yeah, but that's solved by decoding null frames, yes? |
| 03:55:31 | jmworx | i.e. if you encode encode_lookahead more samples, you've really encoded everything but the decoder may not give you everything back because of its own lookahead |
| 03:55:57 | jmworx | ...which can be solved by decoding a null frame or encoding a few more samples |
| 03:56:02 | preglow | yup, sure, just want to make sure i've got the encoder side right, since that's more important |
| 03:56:41 | jmworx | preglow: I'd actually recommend encoding an extra frame at regular rate just to make everything easy. |
| 03:56:54 | jmworx | It's not like a few bytes are really going to hurt you |
| 03:57:22 | preglow | jmworx: and you can rest assured i'll do so if the silence clip mechanism we already have continues to not work :) |
| 03:57:41 | preglow | i've already tried it out encoding an extra zero frame, and it solved all clicking i could find |
| 04:00 |
| 04:00:03 | jhMikeS | preglow: want to test a patch or should I just commit since it's the correct way anyhow? (need to check it myself first) |
| 04:00:08 | | Part johnf1911 |
| 04:00:47 | preglow | commit away |
| 04:00:55 | preglow | i seriously need to go to bed now |
| 04:01:03 | preglow | will check it out tomorrow, gnight |
| 04:04:25 | jmworx | preglow: still working on a memmove/memset patch? |
| 04:06:52 | XavierGr | why make install takes ages these days? |
| 04:08:22 | | Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-435403e9.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 04:08:24 | | Join iamben_ [0] (n=ben@adsl-75-39-195-139.dsl.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:09:14 | rasher | XavierGr: probably primarily because of make zip |
| 04:09:20 | rasher | eh, buildzip.pl |
| 04:09:28 | XavierGr | any commiter online, I have a lang update |
| 04:10:01 | XavierGr | rasher: I remember it was way faster in the old days |
| 04:10:06 | btwizt | Hey Guys, doesna nyone here have any experience with the Sansa c200 series and if so may i aska few quiestions? |
| 04:10:07 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 04:10:39 | rasher | XavierGr: could be something else I guess, but I think make zip is what takes most time |
| 04:11:00 | XavierGr | rasher: so it is slow for you too? |
| 04:11:10 | advcomp2019 | btwizt, ask and we can try to answer |
| 04:11:54 | rasher | XavierGr: ffairly slow, yes |
| 04:12:05 | btwizt | Thanks ill start with my..crappy.. situation |
| 04:12:30 | btwizt | I got a Sansa c250 V2 2gb for my birthday yesterday, and it worked perfectly |
| 04:12:59 | btwizt | today i tried the sansa firmware updater, which updated it, but it removed all text from the sansa interface |
| 04:13:26 | rasher | That's not really Rockbox related. Rockbox doesn't even support the c200 v2 |
| 04:13:30 | btwizt | im jsut wondering if using Rockbox will let me use my C250 again |
| 04:13:37 | btwizt | it doesnt? |
| 04:13:42 | rasher | Nope |
| 04:13:43 | btwizt | it says it does on tehw ebsite |
| 04:13:56 | btwizt | or is that only the v1 |
| 04:13:59 | rasher | "SanDisk: Sansa c200, e200 and e200R series (not the v2 models)" |
| 04:14:17 | btwizt | well my bad...guess im waiting for it to be supported or for sansa to fix it |
| 04:14:22 | btwizt | sorry tow aste your time |
| 04:14:36 | | Join FEL [0] (i=18c8b7b4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f09e8616b1a4c26a) |
| 04:14:43 | FEL | oké guy i need help |
| 04:14:48 | rasher | You could try the sansa forums |
| 04:14:56 | FEL | i bought my e260 and i got the box in my hand |
| 04:15:03 | FEL | and before open i wanna be sure its not and e260R |
| 04:15:09 | FEL | sooo how do i know its not an R |
| 04:15:25 | FEL | on the box it only say E260 .. |
| 04:16:03 | btwizt | Ive already tried teh sansa forums, no one is helping |
| 04:16:13 | FEL | but it also say playforsure |
| 04:16:16 | btwizt | and ive emailed sansa support directly, no help from them |
| 04:16:25 | FEL | soo that make me thinkin its an R |
| 04:16:29 | FEL | =/ |
| 04:16:37 | btwizt | all sansa players are PLayforsure |
| 04:16:41 | advcomp2019 | FEL, if it does not have the R on it, it is a plain one |
| 04:16:46 | FEL | o really ? |
| 04:16:49 | FEL | REALLY |
| 04:16:59 | btwizt | only the R comes witht eh Rhapsody stuff |
| 04:17:24 | rasher | As far as i know, the only way to know for sure is to turn it on and see if it has a rhapsody menu entry. |
| 04:17:34 | btwizt | lol |
| 04:17:35 | FEL | yeah but |
| 04:17:38 | FEL | its brand new |
| 04:17:39 | FEL | sealed |
| 04:17:44 | rasher | Rhapsody models have been sold with non-R cases and vice-versa |
| 04:17:46 | FEL | and before open it i wanna be sure |
| 04:17:52 | btwizt | so i guess i ahve no hope of ever getting rockbox on my c250 v2 |
| 04:17:54 | FEL | omg shit |
| 04:17:56 | advcomp2019 | btwizt, most of the sansa players does both MSC mode and MTP mode |
| 04:18:07 | FEL | are you serious ? |
| 04:18:10 | rasher | FEL: why is this so important? |
| 04:18:15 | FEL | for rockbox ? |
| 04:18:25 | FEL | i heard that u cant installl rockbox on the R version |
| 04:18:38 | rasher | FEL: Rockbox does support the R models. Although the install is more complicated |
| 04:18:39 | Soap | the e200R not only works now with rockbox, we have the technology to turn an R into a non-R |
| 04:18:52 | FEL | ah |
| 04:18:55 | DogBoy | heh |
| 04:18:56 | FEL | is it complicated ? |
| 04:19:02 | FEL | yes lol? |
| 04:19:03 | Soap | yes |
| 04:19:06 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-71-125-77-210.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:19:06 | FEL | ^^ |
| 04:19:12 | jhMikeS | stupid thing is that Rhapsody mode = MSC and Plays for Sure = MTP ... messed me up for a bit |
| 04:19:13 | FEL | omg shit that crap ;D |
| 04:19:30 | FEL | that idiot why they messed boxx lol |
| 04:20:01 | rasher | FEL: please stop swearing, and unless your box says Rhapsody, odds are that it's not an R. But you can't know for absolute sure |
| 04:20:16 | FEL | okke.. |
| 04:20:25 | FEL | soo i must open the brand new box i guess |
| 04:20:41 | FEL | so u guy wanna know if im lucky or not ? ;p |
| 04:21:26 | | Quit iamben (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:21:38 | FEL | what look R menu ? |
| 04:22:03 | advcomp2019 | there should be Rhapsody Channels in it |
| 04:22:11 | maraz | FEL: Please pay attention to your grammar and spelling. It's really difficult to understand what you're saying. |
| 04:22:48 | advcomp2019 | i think that is what you are asking |
| 04:22:54 | FEL | lol |
| 04:22:57 | psycho_maniac | you can also have more then one thought in a sentence. the enter button is not a space bar |
| 04:23:00 | FEL | sorry dude we are not all speaking english. |
| 04:23:13 | FEL | in this world . |
| 04:23:30 | maraz | Hey, I'm Finnish and I'm still capable of doing so. |
| 04:23:43 | Soap | FEL, regardless of your native tongue, you are expected to cut out the "u", "lol", and other non-english words. |
| 04:24:09 | FEL | ah sorry. |
| 04:24:22 | maraz | But before this turns into more rivalry, let me state the IRC guidelines as stated in the wiki (check out the topic): Use clear, grammatical, correctly-spelled English. "Words" such as "thx", "u", and "kewl" are not acceptable. This includes l337speak and odd usages of capital letters as well. |
| 04:25:11 | FEL | the box smell new xD |
| 04:25:20 | * | maraz sighs |
| 04:25:38 | male | What's IRC without leetspeak? |
| 04:25:42 | FEL | sansa e200 quick start guide. |
| 04:25:44 | Llorean | FEL: This is an on-topic channel. If it's not important and related to Rockbox, please just think it and don't type it. |
| 04:26:04 | male | Llorean: Awesome advice. Put that in the topic. |
| 04:26:27 | Llorean | male: It more or less is. |
| 04:26:36 | scorche | male: it is...and if that reference isnt enough, the link says it...there isnt a need to have a looooooooooooooooooooooong topic |
| 04:27:02 | male | Is looooooooooooooooooooooong a proper English word? |
| 04:27:07 | male | I'm so confused. |
| 04:27:32 | psycho_maniac | no |
| 04:28:25 | maraz | male: No, it's just a reference to a certain feline mammal. |
| 04:28:43 | FEL | should i install rockbox right now ? |
| 04:28:59 | psycho_maniac | FEL: only if you want |
| 04:29:01 | scorche | feisar: that is up to you... |
| 04:29:02 | maraz | You probably should verify that the player functions as it is. |
| 04:29:04 | scorche | whopps |
| 04:29:14 | FEL | yes it work .. |
| 04:29:40 | psycho_maniac | then install it by following the instructions in the manual |
| 04:30:44 | FEL | dont get detected -_- |
| 04:31:01 | scorche | ok...i wont |
| 04:31:16 | | Quit btwizt ("Wake me up when september ends") |
| 04:31:25 | Soap | what is your native tongue FEL? French? |
| 04:31:37 | FEL | yes |
| 04:32:28 | maraz | English isn't that far from French, but that's a topic not quite suited for this channel. |
| 04:32:35 | | Quit w0rd54 (Client Quit) |
| 04:33:10 | FEL | Ok let me Explain do i need to do something before install rockbox with the autoinstall ... like put it in a certain mod |
| 04:33:29 | Soap | its all in the manual. |
| 04:34:03 | scorche | including instructions if you have an R |
| 04:35:27 | | Join advcomp2019_ [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) |
| 04:35:40 | | Quit advcomp2019 (Nick collision from services.) |
| 04:35:51 | | Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) |
| 04:37:36 | | Join w0rd54 [0] (i=blackdev@100mbit.top-site.us) |
| 04:39:54 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:40:16 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF4176.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:40:41 | | Join tdoggette [0] (n=tdoggett@pool-70-21-53-230.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:40:55 | FEL | in the rockbox auto installation at : select your device in the filesystem , what do i put ? |
| 04:43:00 | FEL | nvm. |
| 04:45:08 | tdoggette | I'm trying to install rockbox on a clean (just reset, latest Apple firmware) 4th gen grayscale iPod using Ubuntu 7.10. |
| 04:45:22 | maraz | tdoggette: follow the instructions in the manual. |
| 04:45:25 | tdoggette | I downloaded and installed using the QT utility |
| 04:45:40 | tdoggette | and it went smoothly, but rockbox doesn't start |
| 04:45:54 | maraz | what does it say? |
| 04:46:16 | tdoggette | select+menu just reboots into the apple firmware |
| 04:46:31 | | Quit FEL ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 04:46:31 | Soap | sounds like you installed the firmware, but not the bootloader. |
| 04:46:37 | maraz | indeed. |
| 04:46:43 | tdoggette | it said I already had the latest |
| 04:46:59 | maraz | the apple firmware doesn't really do anything |
| 04:47:12 | maraz | ... in a rockbox boot procedure. |
| 04:47:51 | tdoggette | I installed to bootloader, it works like a charm |
| 04:47:53 | tdoggette | Thanks. |
| 04:51:02 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 04:51:55 | | Quit XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:52:54 | | Join kryptoz [0] (n=kryptoz@221.135.191.230) |
| 05:00 |
| 05:02:32 | | Part kryptoz |
| 05:03:16 | | Quit TTThomas ("Lost terminal") |
| 05:09:39 | tdoggette | Okay, something weird just happened. I was copying files to the iPod, and my computer warned of "unsafe drive removal." I can it to recognize the iPod again by rebooting it, but now the file system is read-only. What's going on? |
| 05:09:56 | tdoggette | *I can it -> I got it |
| 05:10:20 | | Join homielowe [0] (n=chatzill@d207-81-67-190.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 05:10:48 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:11:08 | tdoggette | The utility says my configuration is invalid now. |
| 05:14:02 | tdoggette | Should I just reformat the sucker and start over, or is there a solution to the "read-only" thing? |
| 05:16:12 | | Quit animeloe ("Leaving") |
| 05:16:12 | psycho_maniac | maybe try a reinstall first ? what player? |
| 05:17:11 | tdoggette | 4th gen iPod |
| 05:17:20 | tdoggette | I can't reinstall, though−− read only. |
| 05:19:08 | psycho_maniac | have you tried to get it into disk mode and then pluging it into the computer? |
| 05:19:45 | tdoggette | disk mode is select+play, right? |
| 05:20:03 | psycho_maniac | yes right when the apple logo appears |
| 05:20:56 | | Quit sarixe ("(EE) Failed to load "quit" module") |
| 05:21:09 | tdoggette | That works. |
| 05:21:23 | tdoggette | I guess I'll do that when I cant to load things on |
| 05:21:27 | tdoggette | *want |
| 05:27:53 | | Join zack [0] (i=59a8103d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-ea53a44783f59bda) |
| 05:27:58 | zack | hello |
| 05:28:13 | psycho_maniac | hello zack |
| 05:28:33 | zack | i can't play wma on my ipod with rockbox? |
| 05:28:48 | krazykit | you can. |
| 05:28:50 | zack | my nephew manage to make it work today |
| 05:28:55 | scorche | you can as long as they arent infested with DRM |
| 05:29:00 | krazykit | or rather, you should be able to play unprotected wma |
| 05:29:09 | zack | how? |
| 05:29:24 | zack | my nephew gave me an unprotected wma |
| 05:29:26 | krazykit | drag the files on the ipod, play as normal |
| 05:29:43 | zack | still my ipod detect the file, but freeze |
| 05:30:02 | krazykit | are you using the latest build? |
| 05:30:07 | psycho_maniac | what model? |
| 05:30:07 | zack | i'm under rockbox wich i live |
| 05:30:15 | zack | ipod 30gb |
| 05:30:18 | zack | video |
| 05:30:51 | | Join Mouser_X [0] (n=mouser_x@LAYL001.digis.net) |
| 05:31:11 | | Quit krazykit ("brb.") |
| 05:31:17 | psycho_maniac | do you have the latest default build for your player? there updated more then once a day. |
| 05:31:36 | zack | version 15047 |
| 05:31:53 | zack | how do you update once you already install the new version |
| 05:32:12 | zack | can you update live |
| 05:32:16 | psycho_maniac | just extract the zip file to the root of your player. |
| 05:32:17 | zack | via interent |
| 05:32:26 | psycho_maniac | i dont not know what "update live" means |
| 05:32:51 | zack | like plug your ipod rockbox and then it does it for you |
| 05:32:57 | zack | no? |
| 05:32:57 | psycho_maniac | no |
| 05:33:15 | zack | ok, because i installed it yesterday |
| 05:33:28 | psycho_maniac | where did 1504 come from? |
| 05:33:44 | zack | and my wma file doesn't work, even though it works on my ubuntu laptop |
| 05:34:00 | zack | 15407 |
| 05:34:02 | zack | sorry |
| 05:34:12 | zack | is it the latest version |
| 05:34:26 | psycho_maniac | the newest is 15731 your version is a bit old |
| 05:34:50 | zack | ok maybe that explain, but i downloaded it from the rockbox website |
| 05:35:18 | zack | where can i find it |
| 05:35:18 | psycho_maniac | just update it now and it will have the most current build for your player. |
| 05:35:57 | Mouser_X | Get it from the "Current Build" page. |
| 05:36:15 | | Join krazykit [0] (n=krazykit@adsl-76-240-200-149.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:36:15 | | Quit zack ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 05:36:22 | psycho_maniac | go to rockbox.org look on the left and see "current build" |
| 05:36:26 | | Join zack [0] (i=59a8103d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f1d385813f413067) |
| 05:36:33 | psycho_maniac | go to rockbox.org look on the left and see "current build" |
| 05:36:49 | zack | ok no problem i'll see you in a minute to check with you guys! |
| 05:41:14 | | Join btwizt [0] (n=CAKline@bry-edo-76-76-33-113.wls.metalink.net) |
| 05:41:26 | btwizt | Hey guys its me again teh didiot witht eh c200 v2 |
| 05:44:10 | btwizt | ok guess now is not teh time for my brain storm |
| 05:45:23 | Mouser_X | Just because no one says anything, does not mean no one is here. |
| 05:45:42 | | Nick Mouser_X is now known as No_one (n=mouser_x@LAYL001.digis.net) |
| 05:45:48 | No_one | :P |
| 05:45:55 | | Nick No_one is now known as Mouser_X (n=mouser_x@LAYL001.digis.net) |
| 05:46:01 | zack | it works !!! |
| 05:46:08 | zack | thank you man |
| 05:46:13 | zack | all sorted |
| 05:46:22 | btwizt | Well im thinking that since the only way i can see for my C200v2 to get fixed is for Sansa to send me the firmware, what if i give that firmware tehy send me to teh Rockbox team to help the development for this aprticular version |
| 05:46:29 | psycho_maniac | now on the main page it will show you what has been updated in the current build |
| 05:46:46 | | Quit scorche (Nick collision from services.) |
| 05:47:07 | | Join mokkurkalve [0] (n=eivind@084202223083.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 05:47:12 | psycho_maniac | just read the "what" part and you should be able to understand it. |
| 05:47:14 | | Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 05:47:31 | btwizt | sorry im typing fast |
| 05:47:43 | btwizt | odd mixture of being really pissed off and genius |
| 05:49:38 | btwizt | jsut thought maybe having the firmware would help them figure out if Rockbox can run on a c200 V2 |
| 05:49:54 | Mouser_X | Question: I saw that there's a Soundwave MP3 player for about $100. I'm honestly (*Very* slightly) considering buying one, and donating it to Rockbox... |
| 05:50:11 | Mouser_X | It'd be awesome to say "I Rockboxed Soundwave!" |
| 05:50:22 | Mouser_X | (Yes, I'm refering to the Transformer.) |
| 05:50:36 | | Join Workaphobia [0] (n=Jonathan@ool-44c30ab1.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 05:50:44 | btwizt | Haha |
| 05:50:46 | lostlogic | Mouser_X: any idea what's in it? |
| 05:50:55 | btwizt | I rocked Soundwaves Box |
| 05:51:00 | Mouser_X | That's the problem. No idea at all, in anyway whatsoever. |
| 05:51:16 | Mouser_X | It doesn't appear to have a display though. |
| 05:51:21 | btwizt | lol |
| 05:51:25 | | Quit btwizt ("Wake me up when september ends") |
| 05:51:27 | Mouser_X | (That'd make navigation difficult.) |
| 05:51:31 | lostlogic | we have voice :-P |
| 05:51:47 | Mouser_X | lol. Awesome. |
| 05:54:27 | | Join briantumor [0] (n=echelon@ool-44c7f686.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 05:54:29 | briantumor | hi! |
| 05:54:48 | briantumor | i have a sansa c250 |
| 05:54:58 | briantumor | i don't know wether or not it's a v2 |
| 05:55:30 | psycho_maniac | shouldnt it say in the manual of the player? |
| 05:55:52 | briantumor | doesn't say which version |
| 05:55:55 | krazykit | briantumor, did the box advertise audible support? |
| 05:56:08 | briantumor | audible support? |
| 05:56:10 | Mouser_X | Maybe he has no manual? While it's very likely that my Gigabeat came with a manual, I don't actually remember ever seeing it... |
| 05:56:19 | advcomp2019 | what version of firmware do you have |
| 05:57:09 | mokkurkalve | it say's on the wiki that the c200 also has a "v2" on the backside if it's a... v2 |
| 05:58:01 | briantumor | yeah, i didn't see a v2 anywhere |
| 05:58:33 | briantumor | in the version.sdk file.. it says... Product: c250 \FW: 01.00.03A \Region: America \Build Date: 2006.10.04 |
| 05:58:54 | advcomp2019 | that is a v1 not a v2 then |
| 05:58:59 | mokkurkalve | The warning against the v2 are now also on the e200 wiki page. I was wondering of getting a e280 as my H300 are too big for exercice situation... |
| 05:59:13 | briantumor | ok, so it's compatible then? ^_^ |
| 05:59:35 | mokkurkalve | Guess that means I have too look for the right version (v1) then...? |
| 05:59:47 | briantumor | i got mine for free ^_^ |
| 05:59:55 | advcomp2019 | yea, it should be if it has 1.00.03a |
| 05:59:57 | briantumor | from dell when i ordered my laptop |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:43 | psycho_maniac | good deal briantumor |
| 06:01:19 | mokkurkalve | So do you know if the e200 series have changed chip...? Should I hasten to get an old one? |
| 06:03:37 | krazykit | i don't know that the e200v2 has even been seen in the wild |
| 06:03:58 | JdGordon | I tinhk the v2 not is more for the c200v2 |
| 06:04:51 | mokkurkalve | I do't know anything −− I just saw that the same varning as on c200 wiki page was now up on e200 wiki page also... |
| 06:04:57 | briantumor | so does the voice recorder save to wav like the original firmware? |
| 06:05:20 | krazykit | you can change the recording format |
| 06:05:27 | briantumor | cool, to what? |
| 06:05:36 | krazykit | wav, wavpack, and mp3 i think. |
| 06:05:43 | briantumor | nice ^_^ |
| 06:05:54 | briantumor | can i also play doom on it? ^_^ |
| 06:05:54 | mokkurkalve | and aiff |
| 06:06:01 | advcomp2019 | i think the e200v2 series are not out yet |
| 06:06:03 | psycho_maniac | briantumor: i suggest you read the rockbox manual for your player. |
| 06:06:10 | briantumor | ok sorry :\ |
| 06:08:56 | jhMikeS | hmmm...fmradio exit on e200 doesn't work now. (supposed to be power (menu) release but nothing happens) |
| 06:09:05 | briantumor | video support?? |
| 06:09:13 | mokkurkalve | well, if I want a rockboxed e280 I should probably purchace it now then... |
| 06:09:34 | psycho_maniac | if you read the manual it will tell you. |
| 06:09:48 | briantumor | i know.. i'm reading :S |
| 06:09:51 | * | jhMikeS and you can't turn it off! :P |
| 06:11:07 | jhMikeS | ah, misread, can exit can't shut the radio off |
| 06:11:23 | | Quit zack ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 06:11:43 | Llorean | jhMikeS: Power should stop the radio. |
| 06:11:50 | jhMikeS | it's isn't working |
| 06:11:53 | jhMikeS | *it |
| 06:12:06 | Llorean | Was the radio stoppable before? |
| 06:12:10 | jhMikeS | yes |
| 06:12:42 | Llorean | Ah |
| 06:12:44 | Llorean | There's a glitch |
| 06:12:49 | jhMikeS | is has the previous key as BUTTON_UP |
| 06:12:50 | Llorean | I didn't remove the PRE_ dependency |
| 06:12:53 | Llorean | Yeah |
| 06:13:08 | Llorean | I'll go ahead 'n fix that then, shall I? |
| 06:13:24 | jhMikeS | absolutely...was driving me nuts :) |
| 06:13:29 | Llorean | I don't think it's a very good button combo. ;) |
| 06:14:20 | | Quit J3TC- (".•«UPP»•.") |
| 06:16:08 | | Join iamben [0] (n=ben@ppp-70-247-252-70.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net) |
| 06:16:24 | Llorean | Unless I typoed, should be all better. |
| 06:16:35 | Llorean | That being said, does "Power" stop the FM radio if you leave the radio screen and go to the menu? |
| 06:18:49 | jhMikeS | that file needs $Id$ in there too |
| 06:19:04 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-71-125-77-210.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 06:19:15 | jhMikeS | ACTION_FM_POWER should actually stop the radio |
| 06:19:39 | jhMikeS | *FM_STOP |
| 06:20:24 | | Quit Workaphobia (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 06:21:12 | Llorean | $ld$? |
| 06:21:50 | Llorean | And, ACTION_FM_POWER? while I'm asking questions without verbs. |
| 06:21:59 | Llorean | Oh, wait. |
| 06:22:06 | Llorean | I should read everything you say before questioning. |
| 06:22:12 | Llorean | Still, I'm not sure what you're asking |
| 06:22:31 | jhMikeS | all good now |
| 06:22:36 | Llorean | Okay |
| 06:23:09 | Llorean | I should've fixed that with my initial keymap change, but being the complete doofus I am, I just didn't think "New screens have been added since I originally wrote this patch" |
| 06:23:15 | jhMikeS | $Id$ gets replace with such as $Id: pcmbuf.c 15668 2007-11-18 17:12:19Z jethead71 $ |
| 06:23:43 | Llorean | So I apparently deliberately created more inconsistency in the keymap with my original change. =/ |
| 06:23:58 | | Join radinp [0] (n=pradin@pool-71-183-247-4.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 06:24:20 | jhMikeS | hehe ... I'll check recording |
| 06:24:24 | | Join TradeJack [0] (n=aurum@ool-182f7087.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 06:24:57 | Llorean | Oh, that's an I not an L |
| 06:24:57 | Llorean | Okay |
| 06:25:06 | Llorean | In the big comment at the top of the file, gotcha |
| 06:25:21 | Llorean | I'm a little off tonight, I think |
| 06:26:05 | * | jhMikeS too ... can't get a single constant correct the first time :p |
| 06:26:44 | Llorean | The only change in the recording screen is making the menu come up in a single press of BUTTON_DOWN rather than holding it |
| 06:27:20 | Llorean | Everything else is actually consistent with how the new radio and WPS style mappings are anyway, pretty much |
| 06:27:46 | Llorean | Or at least as reasonably as one can expect while maintaining usability and vastly disparate functions |
| 06:28:45 | | Quit iamben_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 06:28:47 | Llorean | I'm kinda surprised it had a long-press function without a short-press function, honestly |
| 06:28:58 | jhMikeS | I think scan/preset using the record button is a bit odd though that never changed. Would make sense to just jump to record. |
| 06:29:11 | Llorean | jhMikeS: I agree, actually |
| 06:29:22 | Llorean | But I think the radio controls are a bit odd in general |
| 06:30:06 | jhMikeS | not sure what would be scan/preset then...long down or long up? only choices really |
| 06:30:45 | Llorean | ACTION_FM_PRESET sets a preset? |
| 06:30:51 | jhMikeS | the long play button is often used for that |
| 06:31:20 | Llorean | Does the recording screen even have a shortcut-to-recording function yet? |
| 06:31:22 | jhMikeS | yeah, but I'm talking about ACTION_FM_MODE |
| 06:31:53 | Llorean | Well yeah, I was just trying to figure out if some other key was swappable |
| 06:31:56 | jhMikeS | actually that's the presets list |
| 06:32:12 | Llorean | Aaaah |
| 06:32:17 | Llorean | Seems odd on Select then |
| 06:32:40 | Llorean | Do you know if two buttons can have the same action, btw? |
| 06:32:45 | jhMikeS | not unique though |
| 06:33:04 | jhMikeS | yes is is |
| 06:33:06 | jhMikeS | *it |
| 06:33:08 | Llorean | I'd really, _really_ like to have both _LEFT and _POWER be ACTION_STD_CANCEL |
| 06:33:13 | Llorean | Since _POWER is completely unused in _STD |
| 06:33:39 | Llorean | Man, if I were un-blind, I'd see _STD_OK defined twice |
| 06:33:44 | jhMikeS | can't cancel radio with left :) |
| 06:33:51 | Llorean | Radio isn't STD though |
| 06:33:55 | Llorean | But the Text Editor is. |
| 06:34:17 | Llorean | And it uses STD_CANCEL to exit, and I'd kinda like to leave Left being able to cancel out of things, but power too. |
| 06:34:48 | jhMikeS | the button is the key to the table, not the action |
| 06:34:55 | Llorean | Alright, should I put FM_MODE on long-play while I'm in there then? |
| 06:35:07 | Llorean | Remove it from Rec so it's freed up for later use and people can get used to it now? |
| 06:35:10 | jhMikeS | yeah, much more like others |
| 06:35:14 | briantumor | what's voice ui? |
| 06:35:14 | Llorean | Will do, then |
| 06:35:17 | briantumor | voice command? |
| 06:35:25 | Llorean | briantumor: Reads the menus to you |
| 06:35:36 | briantumor | huh? |
| 06:35:40 | Llorean | It speaks the menus |
| 06:35:44 | Llorean | For blind users |
| 06:35:49 | briantumor | cool! |
| 06:37:25 | jhMikeS | daily voices aren't being built yet in speex? hmmm. |
| 06:37:39 | Llorean | jhMikeS: They aren't? It should've happened automatically |
| 06:37:59 | jhMikeS | I dont't see the links except for hwcodec |
| 06:39:11 | Llorean | Then it's probably just broken entirely |
| 06:39:19 | Llorean | Maybe the script is still trying to pass it an encoder, and mucking things up? |
| 06:40:14 | jhMikeS | No idea. Still alot of scrambling to straighten out the tools I guess. |
| 06:41:15 | | Quit radinp (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 06:41:36 | | Nick billenium is now known as BilleniumZzZ (n=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 06:43:05 | | Join iamben_ [0] (n=ben@ppp-70-129-187-176.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net) |
| 06:44:31 | briantumor | hrm... sansa c200 firmware is ok for c250 as well? |
| 06:44:50 | JdGordon | yes |
| 06:44:57 | briantumor | kk :) |
| 06:45:06 | Llorean | Alright, I think I'm on my last keymap change for the moment. |
| 06:45:11 | Llorean | Left something out on the gigabeat actually |
| 06:48:48 | | Quit joshin (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 06:49:43 | | Quit iamben (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 06:50:45 | briantumor | wait.. |
| 06:51:02 | briantumor | on the features list it says mp4.. does that include video as well? |
| 06:51:35 | Llorean | What features list, specifically? |
| 06:51:50 | jhMikeS | isn't that AAC? |
| 06:51:57 | Llorean | MP4 is a container |
| 06:52:19 | Llorean | It can contain an awful lot of stuff, so none of our features lists should specifically say it's a supported format of anything. |
| 06:55:51 | Llorean | I suspect he also doesn't realize that when I ban him, it won't just be his username. |
| 06:56:00 | briantumor | so.. if i put rockbox on an ipod video.. it would lose it's ability to play mp4 videos? |
| 06:56:13 | briantumor | huh?? |
| 06:56:17 | lostlogic | you could boot to the original firmware to play them. |
| 06:56:23 | lostlogic | rockbox does not play them though. |
| 06:56:28 | Mouser_X | Rockbox couldn't play the MP4 videos, but the OF would still work. |
| 06:56:30 | briantumor | oh.. you can dual boot? |
| 06:57:06 | Mouser_X | In most cases, yes. You have a c200, right? If yes, then yes, it dual-boots. |
| 06:57:17 | briantumor | i mean for an ipod video |
| 06:57:21 | briantumor | my friend wants to try it |
| 06:57:27 | lostlogic | dual boots by default on the ipods as well |
| 06:57:32 | Mouser_X | Yes, the iPods all dual-boot as well. |
| 06:57:34 | briantumor | cool |
| 06:57:37 | briantumor | thanks |
| 06:58:02 | lostlogic | (until you fsck up the OF part of the partition as I have, I wonder if I'll ever restore that...) |
| 06:58:10 | Mouser_X | Heh. |
| 06:58:23 | Mouser_X | lostlogic: What player? Sansa e250? |
| 06:58:37 | | Quit scorche (Nick collision from services.) |
| 06:58:38 | lostlogic | Mouser_X: ipod video |
| 06:58:41 | lostlogic | where I don't need the OF |
| 06:58:43 | Mouser_X | Ah. |
| 06:59:06 | | Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 06:59:06 | * | Mouser_X hasn't seen the OF of his Gigabeat in nearly a year. |
| 06:59:19 | Mouser_X | It's been about 10 months. |
| 07:00 |
| 07:00:05 | * | jhMikeS has never seen gigabeat OF |
| 07:00:25 | Mouser_X | Dumb question: With very little knowledge of C, how difficult would it be to port something to Rockbox, if you have the source code? I assume it'd be difficult, if even doable at all. |
| 07:00:37 | jhMikeS | why the assumptions? |
| 07:00:45 | | Quit Calcipher ("—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 3515 with A Pack Fix By www.ircmadeasy.com") |
| 07:00:52 | psycho_maniac | on the gigabeats can i plug it into usb and then turn it on? i think this is a problem on the ipods. but can you do this on the F40s? |
| 07:01:01 | jhMikeS | I suppose you'll get the C knowledge working on it. |
| 07:01:23 | Mouser_X | Actually, I should say "With very little knowledge of programming langauges in general, let alone C," |
| 07:01:32 | Mouser_X | :P |
| 07:01:50 | lostlogic | Mouser_X: it's be a long process, but not inherently difficult |
| 07:01:54 | jhMikeS | Well, I mean if you succeed you'll definitely have the knowledge :) |
| 07:01:58 | Mouser_X | psycho_maniac: Yes, you can. |
| 07:02:00 | lostlogic | Mouser_X: you'd hafta first read pretty much all of the OF and rockbox' code |
| 07:02:08 | Mouser_X | It'll go into bootload USB mode. |
| 07:02:35 | Mouser_X | *bootloader |
| 07:02:45 | * | Llorean is an idiot. AGAIN |
| 07:03:22 | Mouser_X | lostlogic: Why would have to read the OF code? |
| 07:03:27 | Mouser_X | (And, how?) |
| 07:03:50 | lostlogic | wait, I misunderstood, I read bad |
| 07:03:57 | Mouser_X | I see. |
| 07:04:36 | lostlogic | it depends on what it is then... some things make use of lots of libraries that wouldn't be available on rockbox, others use only lower level functions for which rockbox has an analogous call to use instead |
| 07:05:48 | Mouser_X | It's a Winamp plugin that plays Wonderswan music rips (it's an emulated format, thus it'd be atomic). |
| 07:06:06 | Mouser_X | Really, nothing special at all. More curiousity than anything. |
| 07:08:07 | lostlogic | Mouser_X: for codecs it depends largely on whether they are an integer or floating point implementation to start with |
| 07:08:20 | | Join radinp [0] (n=Philip_R@pool-71-183-247-4.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 07:08:53 | lostlogic | if they start out integer based then it's usually quite easy to port a codec to rockbox by replacing file reading and buffer writing calls with those on the codec api, removing the use of malloc (as a rule) and yielding after frames |
| 07:09:21 | | Quit qweru ("moo") |
| 07:09:49 | * | Llorean wants someone to ban him from making commits for the rest of tonight after the red is cleared up. |
| 07:09:50 | | Nick BilleniumZzZ is now known as BilleniumzZz (n=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 07:10:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 07:11:32 | * | lostlogic offers Llorean a beer |
| 07:12:40 | * | krazykit thinks Llorean needs to hit xkcd's magic drunk level for coding |
| 07:13:00 | Llorean | lostlogic: This is all because I decided to be nice and leave "Select" as an alternate pause button in Mpegplayer on gigabeat. |
| 07:13:08 | Llorean | I should've just said "Screw you guys, it's the same as the WPS" and been done with it |
| 07:13:47 | Llorean | But I said "Hey, I should go ahead and leave it, it's not like there's something else for that to do" and didn't think of the other little tweaks. It's a pathetically simple patch, which is of course why I pathetically didn't notice the other bits |
| 07:13:48 | scorche | lostlogic: we tried at devcon...remember? :( |
| 07:14:03 | Llorean | I've found a beer I don't detest finally. |
| 07:14:13 | | Quit J3TC- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 07:14:16 | scorche | oh? |
| 07:14:20 | lostlogic | do tell! |
| 07:14:25 | Llorean | Guinness Extra Stout |
| 07:14:32 | Llorean | As it doesn't have that whole _beer_ taste going for it |
| 07:14:39 | scorche | hrm |
| 07:14:41 | lostlogic | ooh, good choice at least. |
| 07:14:49 | scorche | Llorean: try Fat Tire |
| 07:14:52 | lostlogic | yeah, it doesn't taste hoppy |
| 07:14:55 | Llorean | scorche: I've tried Fat Tire. |
| 07:14:58 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-71-125-77-210.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 07:15:12 | Llorean | It's got a minimal detestation factor, but it's still in the "Assuming I had a choice, I'd avoid it" category |
| 07:15:18 | scorche | hrm...it does the job well for me |
| 07:15:24 | Llorean | They have it on tap at a movie theatre here |
| 07:15:27 | Llorean | I think it's on tap. |
| 07:15:30 | scorche | well, we know what to get you next devcon :) |
| 07:15:58 | lostlogic | ugh, copying 15 gigs of replacement rips to an ipod takes a while |
| 07:20:02 | psycho_maniac | lostlogic: try doing over 30 :( |
| 07:20:17 | radinp | So, what does everyone think of the recent encryption thread on the dev mailing list? |
| 07:20:25 | lostlogic | psycho_maniac: I'll try to avoid it −− this is the first time I've reloaded my video since I've had it |
| 07:20:43 | Llorean | Okay, I've resolved my red. |
| 07:20:48 | Llorean | No more commits while I'm doing other things |
| 07:21:01 | Llorean | radinp: I think it's silly |
| 07:21:05 | lostlogic | naw, red builds are fUN |
| 07:21:17 | Llorean | If you want data on your DAP encrypted, encrypt it while putting it on the DAP |
| 07:21:19 | lostlogic | it's like christmas |
| 07:21:38 | psycho_maniac | red and green |
| 07:22:29 | radinp | Llorean: really? It seems to have potential. i could imagine it being used as a portable certificate container. |
| 07:22:59 | Llorean | radinp: What exact use do you have in mind for it? |
| 07:25:32 | radinp | Llorean: Well, in my case I use OpenVPN quite extensively. It would be useful to leave my certificates and keys on rockbox. This eliminates the needs to store keys on the host computers. |
| 07:25:40 | | Part TradeJack |
| 07:26:28 | radinp | Llorean: But I do agree that performing encryption on rockbox seems unnecessary. |
| 07:26:55 | psycho_maniac | what if the cia steals your dap for data on it :_ |
| 07:29:33 | radinp | Ok, well in that case we'll need to encrypt the keys themselves. However, any DAP should be able to handle a small amount of encryption. |
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| 07:36:06 | | Quit midgey () |
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| 07:40:23 | lostlogic | ugh, album art is kinda neat and I hate myself for saying it. I really hate myself. |
| 07:41:46 | Llorean | Hahaha |
| 07:41:56 | Guerin | i hate you too |
| 07:42:02 | Guerin | ;) |
| 07:42:23 | lostlogic | now if only all of the existing WPSs using it that support stock builds didn't suck. |
| 07:42:35 | Llorean | I was thinking that I might do something else with the album art space. |
| 07:42:48 | lostlogic | 'space'? |
| 07:42:56 | lostlogic | on buffer? on screen? |
| 07:42:59 | Llorean | Well, I mean the file is cover.bmp, but nothing says it has to be album art |
| 07:43:01 | Llorean | On-screen |
| 07:43:05 | psycho_maniac | im tryiing to edit a wps and i do not know what this means %pb|height|leftpos|rightpos|toppos| what does the |height| do? i try editing it and it does nothing. |
| 07:43:21 | Llorean | For example, a lot of my music is videogame remixes, I could show the logo of the gamesystem it came from, or a sprite from in-game. |
| 07:43:29 | Llorean | Maybe some sort of genre logo for "real" music |
| 07:43:34 | lostlogic | psycho_maniac: how many pixels high the progress bar is in theory |
| 07:44:16 | lostlogic | Llorean: oh sure −− and dont' forget that you can specify the album art image in other ways too (based on the 'artist' tag for instance) |
| 07:44:18 | Mouser_X | It works for me. I've used it to place the progress bar at a specific location on the WPS before. |
| 07:44:19 | psycho_maniac | 12? |
| 07:44:39 | Llorean | lostlogic: Yeah, I thought of that. Portraits of the various artists. |
| 07:45:04 | Llorean | I just want something more interesting than an album cover is to me |
| 07:45:10 | lostlogic | hehe |
| 07:45:32 | lostlogic | I'm going to have album art and at least one album art theme on my players so that I can 'show off' rockbxo to friends ;) |
| 07:53:34 | psycho_maniac | this is my problem with the progress bar. http://xs221.xs.to/xs221/07473/dump071121-004824.png |
| 07:54:00 | lostlogic | psycho_maniac: you want to adjust the toppos (top position) |
| 07:54:13 | Llorean | change toppos to about 3 or 4 less than it is |
| 07:55:42 | psycho_maniac | all mine shows is %pb|12|0|320| |
| 07:55:51 | psycho_maniac | so i would go %pb|12|0|320|4| ? |
| 07:56:31 | lostlogic | psycho_maniac: -4 probably |
| 07:56:42 | Llorean | I think toppos is an absolute y coordinate, but I'm not sure |
| 07:56:53 | lostlogic | oh, then 200ish |
| 07:57:00 | lostlogic | and then adjust from there |
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| 07:57:17 | psycho_maniac | alright will try that. thank you |
| 07:57:18 | lostlogic | psycho_maniac: by default the progress bar is placed at a _line_ as if it were text |
| 07:57:38 | lostlogic | psycho_maniac: so now you are going to position it by pixels (if LLorean is right) as though it were a bitmap |
| 07:57:52 | Mouser_X | Sometimes, you'll need to place it a line above, and then modify the coordinates to get it low enough. |
| 07:58:15 | Mouser_X | (Or, a line below, or whatever.) |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:40 | psycho_maniac | i understand now |
| 08:01:07 | * | Llorean kinda wishes the progressbar just took x1, y1, x2, y2 |
| 08:01:18 | psycho_maniac | that would be a lot easier |
| 08:01:41 | Llorean | The problem is that they were just tacked on the end of it, as it evolved, so as not to break previous generation WPSes |
| 08:02:10 | Llorean | Then again, when viewports happens, %m will probably be removed, which means if WPSes are broken anyway, it'll be a chance to fix it |
| 08:02:27 | * | scorche sees "when" |
| 08:02:28 | | Quit OlivierBorowski (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 08:02:51 | Llorean | scorche: My assumption has always been that it _will_ happen, given an infinite timeline |
| 08:03:20 | * | scorche tries not to make assumptions |
| 08:04:14 | Llorean | Sometimes you have to assume one way or another. |
| 08:04:47 | Llorean | For example, if you say "if" then you're making the assumption that it *might* not happen, but it's still an assumption based on the fact that it's been said that it will happen. |
| 08:04:53 | * | Llorean shrugs |
| 08:05:04 | * | Llorean disappears to do other things |
| 08:06:06 | scorche | i dont consider accepting that there is a possibility of a binary situation that can go either way, going either way an assumption |
| 08:06:15 | scorche | (if you could understand that sentence...) |
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| 08:39:34 | | Quit n17ikh|Lappy () |
| 08:39:52 | briantumor | got my sansa c250 pimped out with rockbox ^_^ |
| 08:39:58 | briantumor | thanks :) |
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| 08:44:23 | | Part Llorean |
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| 09:00 |
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| 09:06:12 | pondlife | JdGordon: ping |
| 09:06:21 | LinusN | the CrossCompiler wiki page is a complete mess |
| 09:06:44 | | Join Shaid` [0] (i=shaid@210-84-52-144.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:06:52 | LinusN | why do we write so much about all the compiler versions that we *don't* recommend? |
| 09:07:16 | LinusN | damn, we should just say what versions we support and that's that |
| 09:07:23 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 09:07:32 | petur | so that next time somebody wonders why we're not using it, we still know why ;) |
| 09:08:02 | LinusN | we could still add some footnotes about the other versions, but not clutter the entire instruction with it |
| 09:08:06 | GodEater | put that on a different page somewhere |
| 09:10:07 | LinusN | for example, we say in the table on top that you should use binutils-2.17, and then later on say that you can't use it to build iriver targets |
| 09:10:09 | | Join thegeek [0] (i=thegeek@s220b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 09:10:54 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 09:11:31 | JdGordon | pondlife: hey |
| 09:14:26 | JdGordon | linuxstb: you round? |
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| 09:26:26 | pondlife | JdGordon: Back now, sorry |
| 09:26:33 | pondlife | About the squeal... |
| 09:26:58 | JdGordon | hey |
| 09:27:00 | pondlife | I'd guess it's either caused by overlapping beeps, or very short beeps |
| 09:27:00 | * | GodEater prods at Bagder again |
| 09:27:24 | pondlife | Does the problem go away if you make the beep length much larger (100, say , rather than 2) |
| 09:27:40 | JdGordon | ill try |
| 09:27:45 | JdGordon | a tad busy atm though |
| 09:27:47 | pondlife | No use as a keyclick, but good for diagnosis |
| 09:27:51 | pondlife | OK, whenever |
| 09:27:54 | pondlife | Report back on FS |
| 09:28:55 | LinusN | i guess i can remove the calmrisc stuff from CrossCompiler? |
| 09:29:08 | | Quit hcs ("Leaving.") |
| 09:29:14 | JdGordon | pondlife: which file was the beep call in again? |
| 09:29:25 | * | JdGordon will have a play now while he waits for this bloody file to downlaod |
| 09:29:41 | JdGordon | action.c ... |
| 09:29:45 | pondlife | action.c |
| 09:30:04 | pondlife | The second parameter to pcmbuf_beep() is the length |
| 09:30:19 | pondlife | I don't have the code with me right now though |
| 09:30:26 | JdGordon | found it :) |
| 09:30:32 | | Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 09:30:39 | JdGordon | my sansa takes bloody ages to boot into OF now for some reason :( |
| 09:30:43 | Bagder | GodEater: yessir! |
| 09:32:53 | JdGordon | hmm.. rolo seems to be stuffed again ? :( |
| 09:36:35 | JdGordon | pondlife: setting it to 100 makes it better.. but its still there |
| 09:37:13 | pondlife | Does it still happen if you (a) disable repeat and (b) are careful to let a beep finish before you click again? |
| 09:37:23 | pondlife | i.e. avoid any overlap |
| 09:38:27 | JdGordon | yes and yes, but very very infrequently |
| 09:39:41 | pondlife | Hmm...I'm out of ideas :/ |
| 09:40:09 | pondlife | I guess you'd need to try and debug in pcmbuf... |
| 09:40:25 | pondlife | Somewhat hard without a target that shows the problem. |
| 09:40:53 | JdGordon | I have no problems with you commiting it and disable it by default for sansa if you want... |
| 09:41:03 | pondlife | Stupid idea, but what happens if you comment out the pcmbuf_beep call (i.e. replace it with a semi-colon)? |
| 09:41:16 | JdGordon | that worked fine last time i tried it |
| 09:41:20 | pondlife | Ah, ok |
| 09:41:25 | briantumor | what's the best video resolution for sansa c250? |
| 09:41:28 | pondlife | No click = no squeal |
| 09:41:43 | pondlife | Well, maybe I should exclude Sansa from the patch :/ |
| 09:41:50 | briantumor | huh? |
| 09:42:04 | pondlife | ^ to JdGordon |
| 09:42:14 | JdGordon | is it only me thats noticed it? |
| 09:42:15 | | Join OlivierBorowski [0] (n=OlivierB@ANancy-157-1-74-110.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:42:22 | JdGordon | it might just be my sansa? |
| 09:42:39 | pondlife | GodEater had it on his iPod Video, but it "went away"... |
| 09:42:50 | pondlife | I suspect all PP targets suffer. |
| 09:43:08 | pondlife | But with a sample size of 4 devices, I can't be very sure |
| 09:43:27 | GodEater | pondlife: oi - I tried and tried to get it to happen again |
| 09:43:35 | pondlife | Gigabeat: fine, H340: fine, Sansa: borked, iPod Video: fine |
| 09:44:06 | pondlife | GodEater: I know, but there's no obvious reason why it wouldn't happen |
| 09:44:28 | pondlife | Probably depends on dircache ;) |
| 09:44:38 | GodEater | =/ |
| 09:45:13 | pondlife | GodEater: So v5 is definitely not squealing for you? |
| 09:45:22 | GodEater | I don't think I've tried v5 |
| 09:45:28 | linuxstb | JdGordon: I'm around now. |
| 09:45:34 | JdGordon | pondlife: is it supposed to have a different beep for repeats? |
| 09:46:10 | JdGordon | linuxstb: hey, i was thinking about viewports and the screen api again and I dont tinh it will cause a problem at all... just add the set_viewoprt call to the api and everything should be fine |
| 09:46:11 | | Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:46:34 | JdGordon | as long as any screens using multiple vp's set it to the default vp on exit |
| 09:46:36 | pondlife | JdGordon: Nope, just the one click |
| 09:46:51 | pondlife | GodEater: It's the same as v3 |
| 09:46:57 | JdGordon | ok, im pretty sure the repeat one sounds diferent.. but i couldbe wrong |
| 09:47:09 | briantumor | ahaha! |
| 09:47:11 | briantumor | this is awesome! |
| 09:47:15 | briantumor | i love you guys |
| 09:47:25 | JdGordon | commit it... if more people complain then we can try fixing it... it doesnt happen fery often at 100 and sounds fine |
| 09:47:26 | pondlife | JdGordon: There's only one call to pcmbuf_beep and all parameters are constants. |
| 09:47:41 | pondlife | It needs to be a length of 2 |
| 09:47:42 | pondlife | Not 100 |
| 09:47:53 | JdGordon | why? |
| 09:47:53 | pondlife | 100 sounds too beepy |
| 09:47:58 | pondlife | 2 is more of a click |
| 09:48:10 | pondlife | But you're right, it ought to work. |
| 09:48:18 | | Quit briantumor ("Leaving") |
| 09:48:27 | pondlife | If it shows up a problem in the underlying layers, then committing it might help get those fixed ;) |
| 09:48:32 | JdGordon | I also couldnt get it to squeel whe music was playing |
| 09:48:45 | pondlife | Nope, pcmbuf_beep takes different paths if playing or not. |
| 09:48:58 | | Quit radinp (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 09:49:03 | pondlife | When not playing it starts and stops DMA just for the beep |
| 09:49:14 | pondlife | Or something like that... |
| 09:49:20 | pondlife | jhMikeS will know. |
| 09:49:24 | JdGordon | maybe thats the problem then? |
| 09:49:57 | pondlife | "pcmbuf_beep is borked on Sansa, and maybe on all PortalPlayer" would be the FlySpray headline |
| 09:51:27 | pondlife | Problem is, it'll just get reported as "keyclick is broken". |
| 09:52:13 | pondlife | I think I need to get a pcmbuf guru involved before commit. |
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| 10:05:50 | Casainho | Good morning to all :-) |
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| 10:06:46 | Casainho | can anyone tell me If I can have a Task running at a higher frequency than the Tick_task, 100HZ? |
| 10:09:14 | | Quit midgey () |
| 10:09:57 | Bagder | why would you? |
| 10:10:06 | | Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection) |
| 10:10:10 | Bagder | then you should have a proper thread I guess |
| 10:10:20 | | Join OlivierBorowski [0] (n=OlivierB@ANancy-157-1-74-110.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:10:52 | | Quit tdoggette ("Leaving") |
| 10:13:17 | Casainho | because I tried to make a PWM signal... and the 100Hz are very low frequency... |
| 10:14:09 | Casainho | is there any PWM signal in RockBox? - I saw some references to PWM on source but I didn't understand... - If there are PWM in RockBox, how is that implemented? |
| 10:14:38 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p54B17675.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:15:43 | Casainho | I used the add_tick_task(); ... |
| 10:17:27 | linuxstb | The tick_task is 100Hz. If you want a higher frequency, you can use the user timer - see metronome for an example (rb->timer_register) |
| 10:17:39 | pixelma | is someone here with a c200 and a microSDHC (Zagor)? |
| 10:18:01 | Zagor | yup |
| 10:18:13 | Zagor | it's only a 1GB card though |
| 10:18:34 | Casainho | linuxstb: Where can I read about metronome? |
| 10:18:42 | pixelma | Zagor: same as me, that's why I was asking for a SDHC card :) |
| 10:18:47 | Zagor | ah |
| 10:19:36 | pixelma | just wondering if someone could try that, because there's a report in the forums that a 6GB card wouldn't get detected on a c240 |
| 10:23:08 | | Join JdGordon_ [0] (n=jonno@c210-49-113-143.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 10:23:51 | | Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 10:24:46 | | Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:25:25 | linuxstb | Casainho: apps/plugins/metronome.c |
| 10:25:56 | linuxstb | Casainho: You could also search the source for other places register_timer() is used. |
| 10:26:04 | linuxstb | I mean timer_register()... |
| 10:27:40 | amiconn | linuxstb, Casainho: A better reference would probably be the software backlight fading pwm |
| 10:28:29 | Casainho | amiconn: is there PWM for some device? |
| 10:28:55 | Casainho | I can't find info about working of timer_register() |
| 10:30:22 | linuxstb | Casainho: Have you looked at the current places it's used in Rockbox? |
| 10:30:56 | Casainho | I am looking... I would like to find the function, with some help comments... |
| 10:31:41 | Casainho | It just says: /* Register a user timer, called every <cycles> TIMER_FREQ cycles */ |
| 10:35:04 | Casainho | okok - I will look trough source and try to understand the function of timer_register() |
| 10:38:44 | Casainho | thank you :-) |
| 10:42:01 | linuxstb | amiconn: Is gcc still refusing to work on cygwin with the multilibs patch? |
| 10:42:17 | amiconn | I tried like 3 or 4 times |
| 10:42:28 | amiconn | It compiles and "installs" with no error |
| 10:42:59 | amiconn | But 'make install' decides there's nothing to do for many sub-dirs, even if I install into a clean location |
| 10:44:01 | linuxstb | Does gcc itself get installed? i.e. is it just the multilibs it is skipping? |
| 10:45:12 | * | linuxstb wonders if anyone else has tried it |
| 10:45:42 | Bagder | I think LinusN did... |
| 10:46:29 | amiconn | linuxstb: No. The installed gcc doesn't work |
| 10:46:48 | amiconn | But wiothout the multilibs patch, gcc can be built and installed fine on cygwin |
| 10:46:49 | linuxstb | Bagder: Successfully, or the same result as amiconn? |
| 10:46:56 | Bagder | I don't know |
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| 10:49:54 | | Quit BeChris (Client Quit) |
| 10:50:27 | | Join Aware [0] (n=bill@CPE-58-161-148-11.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 10:51:25 | linuxstb | amiconn: Are the multilibs built? Typing "find . -name libgcc.a" in the gcc build directory should give lots of matches (I get 24) |
| 10:51:46 | amiconn | Hmm, don't remember |
| 10:52:12 | | Quit atsea- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 10:54:28 | | Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host185-210-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:54:56 | Aware | a quick question: ipod video now has hardware controlled backlight brightness. where can i adjust this? |
| 10:56:12 | linuxstb | Probably somewhere like Display -> LCD Settings |
| 10:56:27 | waran | I found a brightness-setting for my Nano(1st). But I wonder if changing this would drain more battery than it would save (because there is no hardware implementation; if I remember correctly). |
| 10:57:23 | linuxstb | We (well, amiconn) found that the Nano has hardware-controlled brightness, and that's what he implemented for both the Nano and Video. |
| 10:57:35 | waran | ahh, yay :D |
| 10:57:44 | Aware | i can't find it in lcd settings |
| 10:58:12 | linuxstb | Aware: Are you running a recent (and official) version of Rockbox? |
| 10:58:25 | Aware | yes i am |
| 10:58:41 | linuxstb | Which version? (it should tell you in the System menu) |
| 10:59:17 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:59:18 | | Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 10:59:20 | Aware | r15593 |
| 11:00 |
| 11:01:10 | linuxstb | That's not recent - the current version is r15736 and backlight brightness was added with r15599... |
| 11:01:22 | pixelma | I wouldn't call that recent (current build is at 15736), backlight brightness got implemented in 15599... bah |
| 11:01:26 | linuxstb | ;) |
| 11:01:35 | Aware | ARGH, sorry |
| 11:01:42 | linuxstb | "recent" in Rockbox terms means within the last few hours... |
| 11:01:49 | Aware | i see :) |
| 11:02:15 | Aware | i remember updating especially for this functionality... i'm going crazy |
| 11:03:12 | waran | I use yesterday's version =) |
| 11:08:03 | Aware | updated and working nicely |
| 11:09:18 | waran | Aware, if you are going to update your RockBox 3 times per day now just make sure to maintain at least one working backup. If the "current" version isn't running smoothly. |
| 11:10:42 | pixelma | waran: the last 30 daily builds are archived and available for download (not saying that a backup is a bad idea) |
| 11:10:55 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:11:05 | waran | mhm, then |
| 11:11:11 | Aware | usually i only update when something on the majorchanges page interests me but your advice certainly is valid |
| 11:12:58 | waran | Maybe Apple should make RockBox the default OS for the iPod. Would offer about 100 times more functionality :) |
| 11:13:22 | Aware | turn it into a device worth using |
| 11:14:09 | | Join zicho [0] (n=martin@c-5f9fe355.68-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 11:14:14 | Aware | i wonder how many ipods they have sold to people who plan to solely run rockbox |
| 11:14:51 | zicho | 1476 |
| 11:15:10 | Aware | exactly? |
| 11:15:39 | zicho | estimate. |
| 11:15:48 | waran | Im one. It was a long time ago when I thought about which MP3-Player it will be. Then I did some research and found out: iPod is nice (the wheel) - and RockBox would make it useable. So I decided to buy an Nano with RockBox in my mind :) |
| 11:17:01 | zicho | Which generation nano? |
| 11:17:07 | waran | The "big points" I was looking for is 1) no iTunes-shit and 2) Vorbis playback. |
| 11:17:14 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@194.46.173.27) |
| 11:17:33 | waran | zicho, 1st gen. RB does only work with the first one since Apple uses annother mainboard for the following generations. |
| 11:17:45 | zicho | Ah, does it work well? |
| 11:17:45 | | Join atsea- [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-3b79af7ab6d898e1) |
| 11:18:26 | waran | zicho, are you kidding? It outperforms the originial firmware 100 times :) |
| 11:18:27 | Casainho | anyone can tell me what means "rb->timer_register(...." - I am not good at programing... :-) |
| 11:18:44 | Aware | i was going to get an x5 but i couldn't get over its ugliness so i went the 5.5g. sold my soul... |
| 11:19:05 | * | petur kindly points to #rockbox-community |
| 11:19:23 | Aware | :) |
| 11:19:25 | waran | petur, is *-community the smalltalk channel? |
| 11:19:32 | petur | yup |
| 11:19:40 | waran | ok, cu :) |
| 11:20:56 | | Join irony [0] (i=c3488401@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-beaceebdad043f6f) |
| 11:21:07 | irony | omg lots of ppl |
| 11:21:25 | | Quit barrywardell (Client Quit) |
| 11:21:51 | markun | irony: "lol" |
| 11:22:26 | pixelma | I don't see a single "ppl" around here ;) |
| 11:22:50 | markun | irony: anyway, welcome to the wonderful world of rockbox |
| 11:22:55 | Bagder | that's short for "portal player lamer" ;-) |
| 11:23:02 | irony | hehe |
| 11:23:10 | irony | markun: i was here a long time a go :) |
| 11:23:30 | irony | markun: i came up witht the name :) |
| 11:23:40 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@194.46.173.27) |
| 11:23:41 | markun | wow, nice |
| 11:23:42 | irony | thats pretty much the only thing ive contributed with heh |
| 11:23:54 | irony | well thats pretty much the only thing i did |
| 11:23:57 | irony | damn lag |
| 11:23:59 | irony | :) |
| 11:24:11 | markun | are you still using your archos? |
| 11:24:17 | irony | i had the jb6000 |
| 11:24:25 | irony | at the time, fall 2001 |
| 11:24:33 | irony | now i have an ipod video actually |
| 11:24:52 | Aware | heathen! |
| 11:25:19 | irony | i have rockbox on it of course |
| 11:26:16 | markun | of course :) |
| 11:26:22 | irony | what nich has daniel now again |
| 11:26:28 | irony | zagor? |
| 11:26:31 | irony | what was it |
| 11:26:46 | markun | Bagder |
| 11:26:51 | irony | oh sorry |
| 11:26:52 | * | amiconn points to the IrcNicks wiki page |
| 11:27:03 | markun | irony: Zagor's his brother |
| 11:27:08 | barrywardell | Bagder: here's the linux64 version of e200rpatcher: barrywardell.net/rockbox/e200rpatcher.linux64">http://www.barrywardell.net/rockbox/e200rpatcher.linux64 |
| 11:27:46 | Bagder | done! |
| 11:28:05 | Bagder | I am Daniel |
| 11:28:57 | | Quit Gnu47 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:30:57 | linuxstb | No, I am Daniel |
| 11:31:34 | | Quit Aware () |
| 11:35:05 | | Quit jmspeex ("ã•ã‚ˆã†ãªã‚‰") |
| 11:38:00 | Nico_P | there's another USB question on the ML... |
| 11:38:11 | Nico_P | at least this time things will be clear |
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| 11:47:13 | roolku | Nico_P: morning. :) did you see FS #8201 and do you have an idea what is causing it? |
| 11:48:00 | Nico_P | roolku: I've seen it but haven't had time to investigate... maybe this evening |
| 11:48:25 | | Join Bagder_ [0] (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) |
| 11:49:15 | irony | Bagder: hi |
| 11:49:33 | Bagder_ | hey |
| 11:49:41 | irony | i found you while looking for info on Vood boxes |
| 11:49:46 | roolku | Nico_P: cool - I got lost in playback.c :( |
| 11:49:49 | irony | do you know a lot aboput them |
| 11:49:52 | Bagder_ | Vood boxes? |
| 11:50:06 | irony | yes? |
| 11:50:08 | Nico_P | roolku: it has improved :) |
| 11:50:10 | Bagder_ | that's not me |
| 11:50:37 | irony | Bagder: tilgin adsl/router/voip linux based device |
| 11:50:54 | Bagder_ | Mood you mean? |
| 11:51:05 | | Quit stewball (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:51:10 | irony | qt3/embedded on Linux frame buffer on a sh4-linux for Tilgin. |
| 11:51:21 | Bagder_ | yeah, I've done that |
| 11:51:22 | irony | now i realize it wasnt for these devices |
| 11:51:24 | irony | sorry |
| 11:51:31 | irony | its for their set top boxes or? |
| 11:51:32 | roolku | Nico_P: yes I know, but I don't understand all this special casing with previous and current track and how they are the same sometimes |
| 11:51:52 | Bagder_ | irony: yes, I poked mainly on their Mood400 thing |
| 11:52:00 | irony | understand |
| 11:52:04 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 11:52:17 | roolku | Nico_P: (with regards to elapsed time) |
| 11:52:25 | irony | I just got this vood adsl/router/voip box and it seems to be linux based, so i wanted to know what i can do with it ;) |
| 11:52:35 | irony | its from telgin |
| 11:53:05 | Nico_P | roolku: ah yes... you need to know what the static structs are for and when they get copied from/to the main buffer (the bufgetid3 calls) |
| 11:53:52 | Bagder_ | irony: I wouldn't even count on being able to login to it... |
| 11:54:29 | Bagder_ | but it's a bit too off-topic for this channel, let's stop |
| 11:54:36 | | Quit bloody_devil666 () |
| 11:54:42 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 11:54:47 | | Part J-23 |
| 11:57:57 | * | Nico_P is off |
| 11:57:59 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
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| 12:00 |
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| 12:03:50 | | Quit pondlife ("Read error: 110 (Connection slimed out)") |
| 12:04:27 | irony | Bagder: you're right, just wanted to ask you if you had experience with it. I can log in to it through the web interface and change loads of stuff.... well, thanks anyway :) |
| 12:06:28 | | Quit irony ("CGI:IRC") |
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| 12:30:22 | | Part LinusN |
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| 12:46:19 | | Join Webguest-Fully13 [0] (i=7cb74c05@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e1c327eab1062b26) |
| 12:47:22 | Webguest-Fully13 | Hi nerds. |
| 12:47:56 | Webguest-Fully13 | No ones home.. |
| 12:48:31 | | Join Gnu47 [0] (i=Gnu47@private.ntwk.thita.net) |
| 12:49:40 | PaulJam | Webguest-Fully13: if you have a specific (rockbox related) question, just ask. |
| 12:49:47 | | Join evert [0] (n=evert@83.101.25.163) |
| 12:50:00 | evert | hello everybody :) |
| 12:50:11 | Webguest-Fully13 | No time for hello. |
| 12:50:14 | Webguest-Fully13 | Get to work on the Gigabeat S. |
| 12:51:04 | | Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection) |
| 12:51:04 | evert | I'm in search for a new mp3 player, i'm only having linux, so after a bit of research i saw rockbox. anybody here with a sandisk sansa e2x0 player ? |
| 12:51:22 | Webguest-Fully13 | Whats your price range? |
| 12:51:34 | evert | 150€ approx |
| 12:51:38 | Webguest-Fully13 | Any prefered storage capacitys? |
| 12:52:02 | evert | as long as it is flash, i'd prefer 4gb (or more) |
| 12:52:14 | Webguest-Fully13 | Alright.. |
| 12:52:27 | Webguest-Fully13 | Can't think of anything really.. |
| 12:52:34 | Webguest-Fully13 | An Ipod video would be in your price range.. |
| 12:52:36 | evert | in the local store i saw a sandisk sansa e270 with 6Gb and a extra case included |
| 12:52:40 | Webguest-Fully13 | Although its not flash memory. |
| 12:52:51 | Webguest-Fully13 | Rockbox is already released for the Video.. |
| 12:53:02 | evert | Webguest-Fully13: hmm, but i'm not standing really positive towards ipods |
| 12:53:03 | | Join OlivierBorowski [0] (n=OlivierB@ANancy-157-1-74-110.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:53:29 | Webguest-Fully13 | Arrr neither am I.. |
| 12:53:34 | Webguest-Fully13 | Zune possibly? |
| 12:53:41 | evert | that sandisk is priced 140€ |
| 12:53:44 | Webguest-Fully13 | Not sure if it's linux compatible though.. Probably not. |
| 12:53:55 | evert | i don't think zune is linux compatible ;) |
| 12:54:17 | PaulJam | also, there is no rockbox for the zune |
| 12:54:23 | Webguest-Fully13 | Gigabeat X-F? |
| 12:54:41 | evert | previous i had a creative, but in my experience those players are not that good, bad firmware, no rockbox, not very good linux support |
| 12:54:51 | Webguest-Fully13 | Old i know, but with 20-40gb storage capacitys, for around 20 pounds, you can't go wrong :P |
| 12:55:29 | Webguest-Fully13 | Creatives are horrible... |
| 12:55:36 | evert | that sandisk player is looking good, but how good is the player's case ? Can i drop it from a meter height without that i can trash it ? |
| 12:55:52 | evert | i've never seen a sandisk player before, so i really don't know how good they are |
| 12:55:55 | Webguest-Fully13 | Anything with Flash memory will withstand alot. |
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| 12:56:16 | Webguest-Fully13 | I've dropped my Gigabeat S several times.. |
| 12:56:44 | evert | so that 6gb sandisk player for 140€ is a good deal (it will be cheaper online, but for mp3 i prefere the local store) |
| 12:57:13 | Webguest-Fully13 | 1 pound is roughly $3 AUS yeah? |
| 12:58:42 | PaulJam | evert: if you get the sansa, make sure it is not a v2 (with audible support). i think i read that they differ from the normal e2x0 and rockbox doesn't run (yet) on those. |
| 12:58:43 | Webguest-Fully13 | Right, converted it.. |
| 12:59:06 | Webguest-Fully13 | Doesn't seem like you're getting much for your cash.. |
| 12:59:26 | evert | PaulJam: how can i see that ? The description says: |
| 12:59:28 | evert | Sandisk SANSA E270 6GB ***INTERNET PRIJS***+ GRATIS CASE*** |
| 12:59:45 | evert | Webguest-Fully13: what player would you suggest then for my price range ? |
| 12:59:45 | | Quit Webguest-Fully13 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 13:00 |
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| 13:02:57 | | Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 13:05:08 | PaulJam | evert: i think on the the package audible support is mentioned, so if you buy at a local store you can look at it. but i'm not really sure (mybe the v2 isn't even released). i'm not interested in the sansa myself and just thought i should mention it, so you are aware of the potential problem and can do some research yourself. |
| 13:05:42 | evert | ok, so i've to make sure i've got a sansa player without that audible support ? |
| 13:05:52 | evert | thanks for mentioning it :) |
| 13:07:02 | | Quit japc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 13:09:36 | evert | i'm going to get a look in the local store, if it isn't the v2 (with audible support) i'm going to buy it :) |
| 13:09:42 | evert | i hope it won't be a 'bad buy' :) |
| 13:10:59 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 13:16:17 | linuxstb | evert: The Sansa e200 series is one of the most popular Rockbox targets, so I don't think you'll be disappointed. (I don't own one though, so can't comment - I prefer hard-disk players). |
| 13:16:56 | | Quit BeChris (Client Quit) |
| 13:17:09 | linuxstb | LinusN: Did you try building arm-elf-gcc under Cygwin with the latest multilibs patch? |
| 13:17:14 | | Join BeChris [0] (i=40bf328a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-3080769a9e2d95ad) |
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| 13:18:43 | Arathis | JdGordon_: soo, any chance of committing your ".no_index" patch soon? :) |
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| 13:31:35 | | Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world") |
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| 13:39:34 | | Join AceNik_ [0] (n=AceNik@117.98.86.166) |
| 13:42:03 | AceNik_ | guys i started using the equalizer on my h10[20 GB] recently its works fantastic without crossfade, but the deal is , battery levels are goofing around, a moment i have battery indicated at 47 the next moment after a song its 19 or something, can someone tell me whats up, i hav only 2.30 - 3 Hrs of playback |
| 13:43:27 | | Quit AceNik_ (Client Quit) |
| 13:43:31 | | Quit daurnimator (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 13:44:21 | preglow | perhaps the eq sucks it down |
| 13:44:34 | preglow | it's not too easy on the pp cpus |
| 13:46:00 | pixelma | hmm... looking at the just committed greek.lang diff - there are phrases (especially in the beginning) that don't use the "feature:" in the dest and voice part (sometimes containing two lines with "*: "). Isn't that needed there too? |
| 13:48:05 | LinusN | linuxstb: yes i have, and i am working on updating the cygwin packages as we speak |
| 13:48:25 | linuxstb | Ah, so you didn't have the problems amiconn has reported? |
| 13:48:35 | linuxstb | (make install doing nothing) |
| 13:49:10 | amiconn | It does something, just not in every sub-dir |
| 13:52:06 | LinusN | well, it created all the libs, and i can build the mrobe binary |
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| 14:00 |
| 14:08:44 | | Quit Casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]") |
| 14:08:54 | | Join OlivierBorowski_ [0] (n=OlivierB@ANancy-157-1-130-188.w90-6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:12:50 | preglow | jhMikeS: around? |
| 14:15:28 | LinusN | ok, the cygwin packages are updated with newer versions of the compiler, including the multilib arm compiler |
| 14:15:50 | LinusN | it might take a while before the download mirrors have caught up though |
| 14:16:02 | amiconn | How did you manage to do that?? |
| 14:16:56 | JdGordon_ | Arathis: I tihnk we just need a better filename to check for and it can go in... |
| 14:17:21 | | Nick JdGordon_ is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 14:17:25 | LinusN | amiconn: the normal way |
| 14:17:50 | LinusN | i downloaded gcc and patched it with the multilibs patch |
| 14:19:52 | LinusN | amiconn: how can i tell if it fails? |
| 14:20:31 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 14:20:33 | LinusN | the gcc dir is full of libs and i can build m:robe |
| 14:21:09 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 14:21:47 | JdGordon | any objections to FS #5960? |
| 14:23:58 | roolku | JdGordon: does it check inside the excluded folders? I would like to exclude root and include only my music folder |
| 14:24:28 | JdGordon | no, it excludes the whole tree under the excluded folder |
| 14:24:54 | | Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:26:11 | Toki | hi! possibly a stupid question, but... how to disable recycle bin on a rockboxed player? |
| 14:26:21 | roolku | my preference would be an include mechanism, rather then an exclude one (or a combination of both) |
| 14:26:27 | | Quit OlivierBorowski (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:27:03 | roolku | also a less intrusive file (shorter, lower case and ideally hidden) |
| 14:27:05 | | Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 14:27:18 | JdGordon | I've changed the filename to database.ignore |
| 14:27:48 | JdGordon | i agree a white/black list would be better, but I think this is about as good as we would want to add |
| 14:28:27 | JdGordon | its purpose is really to just ignore recordings, podcasts and badly tagged folders.. so a proper list isnt really needed |
| 14:29:30 | Arathis | JdGordon: perhaps you could use a format similar to .htaccess where +/-indexes says if the index of a folder is shown or not. that way we could exclude and include dirs to get a more complex structure and the ability to just include /Music for example. |
| 14:29:56 | JdGordon | thats the white/black lists I was saying.. but I dont tihnk its worth adding |
| 14:30:00 | petur | Toki: offtopic.... but as a hint: in windows, right-click the recycle-bin and select properties... |
| 14:30:31 | amiconn | LinusN: I can build nothing when installing a multilib-patched arm-elf-gcc ... |
| 14:30:31 | JdGordon | I'm also not sure how well it would cope with building from multiple "top levels" |
| 14:31:02 | Toki | petur: oki tks :) |
| 14:31:12 | LinusN | amiconn: then i suggest you install the new packages |
| 14:32:43 | preglow | jmworx: yeah, i am working on a patch, should i eliminate all the unneeded copies i see too? |
| 14:32:44 | amiconn | Are they built with the same prefix I am using? |
| 14:32:52 | roolku | JdGordon: I suppose it is a compromise, but I think it is a unclean trick to define a block just to be able to declare variables. :) |
| 14:32:55 | amiconn | And btw, I don't absolutely need multilibs... |
| 14:33:40 | JdGordon | roolku: yeah, I agree... |
| 14:33:48 | roolku | JdGordon: I don't think it is neccessary to clutter up .rockbox with an database.ignore file - seems fairly unlikely someone will store audio files in it |
| 14:34:35 | JdGordon | llorean suggested (in march when this first came up) that the file should go in so people dont have to try and remember the filename |
| 14:35:21 | roolku | fair enough |
| 14:35:46 | | Join mf0102 [0] (n=michi@85.127.180.92) |
| 14:36:14 | LinusN | amiconn: the prefix is /opt/arm, /opt/m68k and /opt/sh |
| 14:37:48 | JdGordon | buggerit.. in it goes |
| 14:43:55 | markun | JdGordon: why don't we do a opt-in instead of opt-out system? |
| 14:44:14 | LinusN | markun: because then it won't work out of the box |
| 14:44:41 | * | pixelma wonders whether clarifying her 1-hour-ago-question would help getting it answered or if it's because no-one who knows is available at the moment.. |
| 14:44:43 | markun | LinusN: why not? We could have the root as the default |
| 14:45:26 | | Quit crwll ("tuunaus") |
| 14:45:29 | LinusN | markun: well, that might of course work |
| 14:45:35 | * | JdGordon wonders what pixelma asked an hour ago :p |
| 14:45:46 | | Join Casainho [0] (n=chatzill@bl8-173-104.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 14:45:50 | Casainho | Hello :-) |
| 14:46:00 | markun | Casainho: hi again |
| 14:46:04 | Casainho | :-) |
| 14:46:22 | JdGordon | markun: because im not sure how the db building works and I'm not certain that you can call build_tagcache() multiple times with different paths |
| 14:46:47 | Casainho | ah... I would like to know how settings are saved.. from when we turn off player to torn on... |
| 14:47:33 | pixelma | JdGordon: I wondered a bit about parts of the greek.lang patch that's been committed earlier today... |
| 14:47:37 | Casainho | are settings saved in flash memory (Sansa example) ? |
| 14:47:44 | JdGordon | pixelma: yeah, you might be right... those extra *: none lines look wrong |
| 14:47:46 | LinusN | JdGordon: "len" is a funny name for a file handle ;-) |
| 14:47:48 | markun | JdGordon: I just think it's more anoying that I now have to clutter my tree with files when I just want to index my albums dir |
| 14:48:22 | JdGordon | you dont have to |
| 14:48:41 | markun | JdGordon: just for my folders which also contain audio files? |
| 14:48:48 | JdGordon | pixelma: it probably works because the 2nd *: is overwriting the none part |
| 14:49:01 | JdGordon | markun: just for folders with audio you dont want indexed |
| 14:49:14 | JdGordon | and only the top folder if there is a whole tree you want skipped |
| 14:49:38 | pixelma | JdGordon: but it shouldn't on targets that don't have the specific feature |
| 14:50:24 | JdGordon | if that feature is missing then the *: none is correct |
| 14:50:30 | JdGordon | maybe i misunderstood you? |
| 14:51:06 | pixelma | maybe, I see that I'm not explaining very well... |
| 14:51:31 | JdGordon | you mean when the source and dest features dont match up? |
| 14:51:39 | * | JdGordon just noticed that |
| 14:52:47 | JdGordon | bah, stupid red delta |
| 14:53:02 | pixelma | yes, for example the complete LANG_REMOVE_MMC phrase in greek.lang |
| 14:54:43 | JdGordon | it depends how the .lng generation is done.. but I'd say revert it and have it fixed propeerly... |
| 14:54:51 | JdGordon | those doubnle *: lines are definatly wrong |
| 14:55:10 | * | amiconn wonders what a fodler is ;) |
| 14:56:10 | * | JdGordon is happy to add some smiles to the crowd |
| 14:56:30 | JdGordon | think how boring the front page would be if it wasnt for my imaginative spelling :) |
| 14:57:41 | * | preglow hides his fodlers |
| 14:59:09 | | Join joshin [0] (n=josh@unaffiliated/joshin) |
| 14:59:48 | * | roolku is surprised how skipping fodlers fixes memory corruption when using .talk clips :p |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:07 | roolku | (FS #5690) |
| 15:01:19 | JdGordon | what what with the who who? |
| 15:01:43 | JdGordon | oh fuck! |
| 15:01:55 | preglow | \o_ |
| 15:02:04 | * | JdGordon goes to bed.. my brain is obviously alseep anyway |
| 15:02:56 | | Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 15:05:53 | preglow | alseep, sounds like an indian name |
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| 15:11:01 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:16:12 | | Nick parafin|away is now known as parafin (i=parafin@paraf.in) |
| 15:24:44 | markun | jhMikeS, linuxstb: any of you interested in his sample? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=13907.0 |
| 15:28:34 | | Join n1s [0] (n=nils@nl104-209-88.student.uu.se) |
| 15:29:33 | linuxstb | markun: mpegplayer is a different plugin to how i remember it now, especially with the resume feature... |
| 15:29:40 | | Quit scorche (Nick collision from services.) |
| 15:30:09 | | Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 15:30:53 | roolku | ...which jhMikeS is completely changing now anyway |
| 15:31:40 | preglow | jhMikeS: spcs sound gREAT on nano now |
| 15:31:57 | * | preglow bestows jhMikeS with "knight of rockbox" title |
| 15:32:03 | preglow | it comes with a funny hat |
| 15:32:24 | | Quit atsea- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:35:58 | preglow | sweet, sweet spc love |
| 15:36:54 | * | linuxstb can't remember seeing someone love a codec so much... |
| 15:37:13 | | Quit CaptainSquid (Remote closed the connection) |
| 15:39:12 | preglow | hmm, no seek support in spc yet |
| 15:39:20 | preglow | i wonder how well the spc emulator is performing |
| 15:40:24 | markun | preglow: are you looking into seeking for wma? |
| 15:40:26 | | Join atsea- [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-bb57130b539960a8) |
| 15:43:02 | preglow | markun: not in the least |
| 15:43:21 | preglow | my next project for wma is making it faster and syncing it with ffmpeg |
| 15:44:19 | linuxstb | Are there any codecs left we don't support? I can think of Realaudio (Cook) and ATRAC, neither of which seem very useful... |
| 15:44:35 | linuxstb | s/codecs/useful codecs/ |
| 15:45:33 | | Join AceNik_ [0] (n=AceNik@117.98.10.187) |
| 15:46:10 | AceNik_ | guys how does the new update by Jonathan Gordon work regarding the database.ignore |
| 15:46:16 | preglow | i'll concentrate on improving what we have, that's for sure |
| 15:46:46 | LinusN | AceNik_: i'm sure he will update the manual shortly :-) |
| 15:47:14 | AceNik_ | guys i started using the equalizer on my h10[20 GB] recently its works fantastic without crossfade, but the deal is , battery levels are goofing around, a moment i have battery indicated at 47 the next moment after a song its 19 or something, can someone tell me whats up, i hav only 2.30 - 3 Hrs of playback |
| 15:47:28 | preglow | this thing pulls every spc off perfectly |
| 15:47:29 | DogBoy | linuxstb, realaudio not being very useful doesn't keep a lot of content providers from using it |
| 15:47:30 | markun | preglow: this might have to be reverted as it's not mathematically correct: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=14786 |
| 15:47:40 | linuxstb | AceNik_: If you create a file called 'database.ignore" in folder, then the database ignores all files in that folder (and all sub-folders). |
| 15:48:08 | LinusN | AceNik_: in short, for every folder (including subfolders) you want to exclude from the database search, add a file called "ROCKBOX_DATABASE_IGNORE_FOLDER" |
| 15:48:30 | preglow | markun: well, ok, i haven't checked it out too closely |
| 15:48:33 | AceNik_ | linuxstb: but it would be just a file, containing nothing inside right? 0kb ? jus named "database.ignore" ? |
| 15:48:38 | preglow | markun: how incorrect is it? |
| 15:48:40 | linuxstb | LinusN: The name changed between flyspray and SVN... |
| 15:49:19 | linuxstb | AceNik_: Yes, Rockbox just checks if the file exists, so it can contain anything (or nothing) |
| 15:49:56 | markun | preglow: I didn't hear any differences, but didn't compare the resulting wavs either |
| 15:49:58 | AceNik_ | linuxstb, LinusN : thanks, can you help me with the EQ & battery prob on my h10 ? |
| 15:50:01 | Arathis | with JdGordons latest commit I can't export my db anymore and my player won't shut down. I need to reset it and than it give's me the "building database [x/9]" screen |
| 15:50:10 | preglow | markun: wavs should always be compared when doing codec changes, imho |
| 15:50:21 | markun | yes, I should have |
| 15:50:38 | preglow | AceNik_: the problem is that you get less battery with eq enabled?= |
| 15:50:55 | markun | preglow: still would be nice to have 1 fast imdct we could reuse |
| 15:50:57 | linuxstb | Arathis: That doesn't sound good... |
| 15:51:12 | Arathis | but at least it works properly itself. the dirs to be excluded from the database are excluded |
| 15:51:27 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955C75D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:51:32 | linuxstb | DogBoy: Do "a lot" of content providers still use it? I thought almost everyone used wma (or mp3) nowadays? |
| 15:51:41 | Arathis | linuxstb: it's not good, but after the reset it works |
| 15:52:00 | AceNik_ | preglow: yes i agree, that is the case, but battery levels are jumpy, & also sometimes they arent fully empty but they show empty & shutdown, but afetr 10 mins the player can be turned on again, & the player shows 30-40% battery remaining |
| 15:52:17 | preglow | linuxstb: aac in particular needs shaping up |
| 15:52:35 | n1s | linuxstb: we still don't have xm and mod support! |
| 15:52:36 | preglow | linuxstb: i'm in the process of syncing faad, but speex stuff keeps me busy |
| 15:52:47 | linuxstb | preglow: Sure. I'm not thinking about existing codecs that aren't perfect, just things we're missing.... |
| 15:53:00 | preglow | n1s: and that would be the last codec i want that i'd use myself |
| 15:53:04 | linuxstb | Maybe add some missing codecs to SoC2008... |
| 15:53:06 | preglow | someone code it already :> |
| 15:53:45 | Arathis | linuxstb: when build the db in the settings the busy icon disappears and when trying to export the db it says failure. when going straight to the db from the main menu and building it there it stops when (possibly) all files are counted |
| 15:53:49 | | Quit scorche (Nick collision from services.) |
| 15:54:05 | linuxstb | Arathis: I know nothing about the DB (and don't even use it...) |
| 15:54:05 | n1s | preglow: i think i will look into midi as a proper codec (well no so much dec) soonish so any nasty architecturat difficulties should be removed :) |
| 15:54:18 | | Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 15:54:30 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 15:54:31 | AceNik_ | guys do you think for making EQ & battery more functional on h10 we could re bench the h10's & use those values for further builds for determinign battery |
| 15:54:38 | n1s | s/dec/enc |
| 15:55:12 | | Join MethoS-- [0] (n=clemens@pD955C75D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:55:16 | linuxstb | preglow: Are you planning a speex encoder for Rockbox? |
| 15:55:20 | preglow | AceNik_: the fact that eq sucks down battery can't be helped |
| 15:55:22 | preglow | linuxstb: some day, yes |
| 15:55:29 | preglow | linuxstb: but it's not really a priority |
| 15:55:51 | preglow | will require an ocean of optimized code |
| 15:55:54 | pixelma | n1s: since you worked at langV2... can you comment on the greek.lang changes in some phrases (see tracker entry)? |
| 15:56:01 | AceNik_ | preglow; so you tink the eq is best disabled on the h10 then ? ok |
| 15:56:18 | n1s | pixelma: sure, I'll have a look, gotta eat something first tho |
| 15:56:20 | preglow | AceNik_: i always think it is best disabled, but then again i don't even want to use it |
| 15:56:46 | linuxstb | preglow: Do you use _anything_ you've coded for Rockbox? ;) |
| 15:56:51 | pixelma | n1s: sure, thanks |
| 15:57:00 | AceNik_ | ok thanks, but trust me it sure does boost quality of music to another level |
| 15:57:21 | preglow | linuxstb: well, wakeup alarm :> |
| 15:57:35 | preglow | and i do enjoy my mp3 opts from time to time |
| 15:59:01 | Zagor | and here's my old friend the oops again... |
| 15:59:12 | preglow | Zagor: give him my regards |
| 15:59:19 | | Quit AceNik_ ("bye guys have fun , enjoy !!!!!") |
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| 16:11:34 | DogBoy | linuxstb, anybody with any sense doesn't use it but I've ran into content I wanted to play on my portable that I needed better cook support |
| 16:11:42 | * | preglow vanishes |
| 16:14:08 | | Quit MethoS- (No route to host) |
| 16:14:56 | DogBoy | archives at onthemedia.org for one |
| 16:15:48 | DogBoy | I would bet that's a common situtation too −−that a content provider would switch at some point to mp3 but not archives of their older shows |
| 16:17:26 | jhMikeS | preglow: (for when you unvanish) Any change to the speex clicking situation? |
| 16:24:43 | linuxstb | DogBoy: What do you mean by "better" cook support? Does any portable support cook at all? |
| 16:25:09 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 16:38:57 | jhMikeS | preglow: so I should be expecting a funny hat in the mail? :) |
| 16:39:14 | | Quit evert ("Lost terminal") |
| 16:39:25 | markun | DogBoy: the same reason why I'm happy we support WMA now |
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| 16:56:49 | | Part LinusN |
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| 17:07:26 | | Join evert [0] (n=evert@83.101.25.163) |
| 17:07:58 | evert | and i'm back, i've bought a 8Gb sansa for 130€, not very cheap, but i can directly mount it under linux so i'm already quite happy with it :) |
| 17:08:12 | evert | what advantages would rockbox give me on it ? :) |
| 17:08:25 | evert | and what are the risks of putting rockbox on it ? |
| 17:08:31 | lostlogic | see the why rockbox page on our site |
| 17:08:38 | linuxstb | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox |
| 17:08:47 | evert | ok, sry i've to rtfm first, i was a bit to enthousiastic ;) |
| 17:08:50 | lostlogic | there is technically some risk of bricks, but the rockbox brick rate is vanishingly small |
| 17:09:16 | evert | lostlogic: when it would brick, can i return it to the shop and get a new of is it 'lost' then ? |
| 17:09:25 | linuxstb | Anyone else think "voice-driven interface" is misleading on the WhyRockbox page? |
| 17:10:03 | lostlogic | evert: in the unlikely event that you brick it beyond being able to restore through either manufacturer or recovery mode, I don't know, but that would be unethical so I'll not comment. |
| 17:10:06 | jhMikeS | linuxstb: indeed |
| 17:10:26 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: Any suggestions? |
| 17:10:48 | | Join The-Compiler [0] (n=The-Comp@137-14.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 17:10:50 | evert | lostlogic: ok, i hope it won't brick then, would be sad for a mp3 player what i can use 'out-of-the-box' under linux ;) |
| 17:10:52 | jhMikeS | voiceable interface? |
| 17:11:02 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:11:09 | The-Compiler | Hi |
| 17:12:08 | GodEater | do we actually know of anyone who has bricked their sansa to the state of being completely unrecoverable ? |
| 17:12:25 | lostlogic | "Speaking menus" "Speaking interface" "Spoken menus" "Spoken interface" |
| 17:12:30 | linuxstb | Some people seem to be incapable of recovering it - does that count? |
| 17:12:38 | n1s | optional talking interface? |
| 17:12:40 | GodEater | or is it only the case the cluesless newbies (or enthusiastic beginners) just can't be bothered to follow the instructions ? |
| 17:12:55 | lostlogic | linuxstb: haha, I thought for a whiel I'd turned myself into one of those :-P |
| 17:13:03 | evert | i'm not a linux newb or such, so following a guide can't be that difficult ( i hope :p) |
| 17:13:19 | GodEater | evert: then your risk of "bricking" is extremely low |
| 17:13:23 | lostlogic | evert: if you follow it letter by letter it works fine, if you try to be smart (I did) you'll end up with a semi-brick ;) |
| 17:13:27 | * | linuxstb votes for "Optional spoken interface" |
| 17:14:05 | evert | ok, thanks for the answers, i'm going to read the wiki pages to get a bit knowledge of rockbox and such :) |
| 17:14:14 | evert | it looks very cool and promising :) |
| 17:14:30 | lostlogic | evert: once you're onboard (you will be ;)) we welcome bug reports and suggestions. |
| 17:14:34 | * | GodEater will wait for the inevitable "ewww, it's SO ugly" comment then |
| 17:14:45 | n1s | I almost bricked my h300 today as i dropped it while riding amy bike and it was nearly run over by a truck ;) |
| 17:14:51 | lostlogic | linuxstb: I like it −− might want to ask the blind users community what they would be most likely to search for too? |
| 17:14:53 | evert | GodEater: what do you mean ? |
| 17:15:11 | GodEater | evert: it's what most people think of the default theme :) |
| 17:15:14 | lostlogic | evert: you'll see :) |
| 17:15:39 | evert | ok, i'll see, i'm not giving a 'sh*t' about the looks, fucntionality is priority for me :) |
| 17:16:47 | evert | # |
| 17:16:49 | evert | # USB handler ALERT! - The Sansa recognises when the USB has been plugged in, but does nothing more. |
| 17:16:54 | evert | what does it mean ? |
| 17:17:12 | GodEater | it means Rockbox has no native USB stack at the moment |
| 17:17:29 | GodEater | so in order to transfer content to it you have to use the original firmware (OF) |
| 17:17:49 | evert | ok :) |
| 17:18:08 | GodEater | mind you, I have no clue where you read that - so I'm only guessing that's what it means |
| 17:18:33 | evert | i read it on the 'rockbox sansa e200 port' page |
| 17:18:36 | | Join H10_007quick [0] (n=chatzill@mnet-ki-244-78-181.monarch.net) |
| 17:18:59 | lostlogic | yeah, that's what it means |
| 17:19:12 | lostlogic | I can't wait until we get PP USB support, specially now that I have _two_ PP players. |
| 17:19:24 | evert | PP ? |
| 17:19:26 | GodEater | I assume it'll work on the Gigabeat too ? |
| 17:19:29 | GodEater | PortalPlayer |
| 17:19:31 | Ave | PP is soon extinct |
| 17:19:33 | Ave | sadly |
| 17:19:41 | GodEater | sadly ? |
| 17:19:51 | Ave | great little platform, no? |
| 17:19:51 | * | GodEater won't miss one more undocumented platform |
| 17:19:55 | Ave | sad ti see it go.. |
| 17:20:04 | Ave | I mean really, what else IS there |
| 17:20:13 | GodEater | all the other ones we support ? |
| 17:20:15 | Ave | everything we get from now on is even MORE closed and drm-bull |
| 17:20:41 | GodEater | really? |
| 17:20:48 | GodEater | tell that to the telechips porters... |
| 17:20:49 | Ave | it looks like that |
| 17:20:57 | n1s | Ave: pp is only open now because of some major RE work |
| 17:21:04 | Ave | I hope the world opens up, but apple and microsoft make the rules |
| 17:21:08 | Ave | sure |
| 17:21:16 | GodEater | like hell they do |
| 17:21:17 | Ave | but tha fect is that soon you can no longer get PP devices at all |
| 17:21:25 | H10_007quick | I'm trying to setup the compilers on my new Ubuntu install and every time I run the rockboxdev.sh script it gives me an error message of "Patch required to run this script please install and re-run script" What patch do I need? |
| 17:21:48 | n1s | H10_007quick: the tool named "patch" |
| 17:21:52 | GodEater | not _a_ patch - it means you need the binary called "patch" |
| 17:22:10 | GodEater | H10_007quick: sudo apt-get install build-essential |
| 17:23:09 | H10_007quick | thankyou very much |
| 17:23:57 | | Quit The-Compiler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:24:09 | | Join The-Compiler [0] (n=The-Comp@137-14.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 17:24:48 | | Join Siku [0] (i=Siku@e81-197-76-6.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:25:06 | Ave | not too long ago, your player options were basically 1) el cheapo silicon mp3-only players 2) PP based ones 3) iriver-expensiveness |
| 17:25:17 | | Quit H10_007quick ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007102213]") |
| 17:25:21 | Ave | #1 also plays back wma, yippee |
| 17:25:32 | GodEater | my iriver was cheaper than the equivalent ipod of the time =/ |
| 17:25:50 | Ave | some brands even have vorbis support these days out of the box which is amazing |
| 17:25:59 | GodEater | as did my iriver at the time.... |
| 17:26:32 | Ave | but rb gives me two features that no one else does at this pricepoint and availability: simple USM-file system and vorbis support |
| 17:26:38 | GodEater | it had a better remote control than the ipod too |
| 17:26:43 | Ave | I also like gapless playback |
| 17:27:02 | GodEater | both of which the Rio Karma also did |
| 17:27:08 | Ave | ums even |
| 17:27:14 | Ave | has rio gone belly up? |
| 17:27:18 | Ave | past tense |
| 17:27:33 | GodEater | don't think so |
| 17:28:22 | Ave | gonna have to check the markets, once you start filtering by say, vorbis playback and no need for special upload programs, the selection shrinks to near zero |
| 17:28:31 | GodEater | although I'm not sure they still make DAPs |
| 17:31:48 | markun | linuxstb: I'm still puzzled by this: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=13187.0 |
| 17:32:34 | markun | his bootloader gives him "error: -1" but those errors are now replaced by actual text messages in the latest bootloader which he claims to have |
| 17:32:38 | GodEater | maybe his ISP is caching the old bootloader ? |
| 17:33:29 | GodEater | doesn't he also need to remember to flick the battery off/on if he attempts to upgrade the bootloader ? |
| 17:33:55 | markun | GodEater: good point |
| 17:34:02 | markun | GodEater: can you tell him that? |
| 17:34:09 | GodEater | hehe - you scared now ? :) |
| 17:34:36 | markun | no, just drank too much beer and afraid to say stupid things :) |
| 17:35:00 | markun | (only drank 1 beer actually, but with very little food all day) |
| 17:35:43 | GodEater | done :) |
| 17:35:48 | | Quit MethoS-- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 17:36:05 | * | linuxstb waits for petur to arrive |
| 17:36:15 | GodEater | two pings |
| 17:36:19 | GodEater | can't be long now :) |
| 17:36:26 | * | petur is too busy to even respond :( |
| 17:36:34 | GodEater | but.... |
| 17:36:35 | linuxstb | No you're not... |
| 17:36:41 | GodEater | hehehe |
| 17:39:48 | amiconn | Since when does eq boost the quality of the music? :> |
| 17:40:37 | | Join daurnimator [0] (n=daurnima@unaffiliated/daurnimator) |
| 17:41:06 | | Join daurnimas [0] (n=daurn@203.46.67.54) |
| 17:42:19 | | Nick daurnimas is now known as zz_daurnimas (n=daurn@203.46.67.54) |
| 17:44:50 | markun | amiconn: didn't you know? :) |
| 17:45:46 | markun | it can even boost it to another level |
| 17:46:45 | GodEater | indeed, I can listening to a mere tune, set my eq boost to "phat" and then I'm listening to a clearly superior tune :) |
| 17:47:22 | * | GodEater wonders if linuxstb's aoler.lang file ever included that term |
| 17:48:30 | pixelma | markun: another level doesn't tell much - could be quite low too ;) |
| 17:48:45 | | Quit _pill ("changing servers") |
| 17:49:16 | markun | pixelma: but boosting something to a lower level also sounds strange :) |
| 17:50:20 | sup | GodEater: you have bad hardware |
| 17:50:30 | markun | changing speakers and headphones can make music sound quite different to me, so the EQ could probably too to some extent |
| 17:50:33 | GodEater | is that bad as in good ? |
| 17:51:00 | markun | badest hardware! |
| 17:54:21 | | Join nanok [0] (n=nanok@194.145.183.75) |
| 17:54:43 | preglow | jhMikeS: working on it now |
| 17:56:09 | preglow | just tried with the new code now, some pieces still click |
| 17:58:01 | | Join przemhb [0] (n=przemhb@fan115.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:58:38 | jhMikeS | preglow: Don't know what else I can do on that end of things. It does play the silence clip (some delay before music volume is brought back up). |
| 17:59:33 | preglow | jhMikeS: and there's no reset upon seeing -1 returned from decode_int, no? it just goes straight to a new clip if there's more? |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:20 | jhMikeS | Try adding one in before setting the bits after getting the next clip and see if it changes things. |
| 18:01:39 | jhMikeS | I guess copy line 233 to line 327 |
| 18:02:32 | | Join _pill [0] (i=pill@sloth.shellfx.net) |
| 18:03:10 | preglow | why would i want to add a reset? |
| 18:03:29 | | Quit petur ("stkov") |
| 18:03:34 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 18:03:44 | jhMikeS | you were just asking about one? I wondered if you though that might be a reason. |
| 18:04:08 | | Part hcs |
| 18:04:23 | jhMikeS | that's where it will be after a negative value from decode_int |
| 18:04:40 | preglow | i was more thinking about removing one |
| 18:04:51 | preglow | just wanted to make sure there's no reset between a clip and the silence clip |
| 18:05:12 | jhMikeS | there won't be. only on explicit startup |
| 18:06:52 | preglow | no, the clip "file" is deinitely an init, followed by two clips |
| 18:07:05 | preglow | then "two" comes along with an init, and another clip |
| 18:07:13 | preglow | i'm guessing each is followed by the silence clip |
| 18:07:32 | | Nick ionvas__ is now known as ionvas (n=ionvas__@217.189.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 18:07:58 | jhMikeS | where are the clicks in that? |
| 18:08:42 | preglow | "file" |
| 18:08:47 | jhMikeS | I have another thought though. If the filter will ring, skipping the lookahead after decoding may remove a soft transition. |
| 18:08:48 | preglow | depends on the clip |
| 18:09:09 | | Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.) |
| 18:09:10 | preglow | jhMikeS: very good point |
| 18:09:11 | | Join idnar_ [0] (n=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar) |
| 18:09:14 | preglow | i'll try to remove that |
| 18:09:27 | preglow | set the lookahead only on init, that's the correct thing to do anyway |
| 18:09:45 | | Quit linuxstb ("Leaving") |
| 18:09:53 | jhMikeS | make sure to set it to 0 though |
| 18:09:54 | preglow | jhMikeS: weird, one doing "file" + "twenty" + numeral, sometimes there are three inits, sometimes only two |
| 18:10:26 | jhMikeS | so it's sending Q_VOICE_PLAY instead of just queueing multiple clips to play in sequence? |
| 18:10:38 | preglow | jhMikeS: that was it |
| 18:10:48 | preglow | problem solved |
| 18:11:04 | preglow | i'll try with nb now |
| 18:11:55 | preglow | jhMikeS: i just removed the GET_LOOKAHEAD in the get_more() stage, shouldn't that suffice? that way it'll only be set after init |
| 18:12:56 | | Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@79.20.210.185) |
| 18:13:07 | preglow | jhMikeS: you really do write very nice threading code, this stuff looks bulletproof |
| 18:14:14 | preglow | jhMikeS: that fixed nb mode too! |
| 18:14:25 | jhMikeS | :> |
| 18:14:42 | | Join Frazz [0] (n=Fraser@thelawsons.plus.com) |
| 18:14:59 | | Join jpt9 [0] (n=jpt9@32.137.138.62) |
| 18:15:03 | jhMikeS | sweet, bug fixed by deleting stuff...the best way |
| 18:15:26 | | Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 18:15:40 | preglow | but that should suffice, yeah? just deleting that one decoder_ctl line? |
| 18:16:06 | jhMikeS | make sure lookahead is explicity set 0 and that ought to work |
| 18:16:32 | preglow | td.lookahead -= MIN(VOICE_FRAME_SIZE, td.lookahead); |
| 18:16:37 | preglow | doesn't that line handle that? |
| 18:16:51 | jhMikeS | line 329, td.lookahead = 0 |
| 18:16:58 | preglow | that should have happened by the time any clip gets queued via get_more anyway |
| 18:17:12 | jhMikeS | not nescessarily |
| 18:17:17 | preglow | mok |
| 18:17:55 | jhMikeS | well, true, it's paranoid but the cost is cheap to guarantee it |
| 18:18:36 | jhMikeS | maybe not, it may not finish inserting frames into the DSP before it has to look at another clip |
| 18:18:37 | * | preglow is the bit counting type of person :> |
| 18:18:54 | preglow | but sure, i'm putting it in anyway |
| 18:19:20 | jhMikeS | if the lookahead is ever > 1 frame, it won't have finished counting down |
| 18:19:46 | preglow | sure, might as well write that part in the paranoid spirit too |
| 18:19:59 | preglow | lookahead won't be > 1 frame unless something very big happens to speex |
| 18:19:59 | preglow | heh |
| 18:20:19 | jhMikeS | jmspeex already warned it not to be assumed |
| 18:20:27 | preglow | sure, you should assume as little as possible |
| 18:20:41 | preglow | i should know, i had to write code to handle that exact case for mpa.c ... |
| 18:21:40 | preglow | okiedokie |
| 18:21:45 | preglow | amiconn: around? |
| 18:22:05 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 18:22:23 | * | preglow needs a mingw person |
| 18:24:00 | jhMikeS | preglow: this little state-machine paradigm is easy to follow? (I have to ask since of course I can follow it having written it :p) |
| 18:24:15 | preglow | jhMikeS: i almost always find state machines easy to follow |
| 18:24:53 | jhMikeS | it makes complex behavior simple to implement actually |
| 18:25:02 | preglow | deed |
| 18:26:16 | | Quit jpt9 ("Leaving") |
| 18:26:45 | preglow | linuxstb: around? |
| 18:26:59 | linuxstb | half-around... |
| 18:27:34 | preglow | linuxstb: able to make a new rbspeexenc windows binary for me? |
| 18:27:49 | linuxstb | Sure |
| 18:28:15 | preglow | strip it too |
| 18:28:23 | preglow | linuxstb: just make sure to svn up |
| 18:30:00 | | Join kclaf [0] (n=kclaf@85.95.211.245) |
| 18:30:12 | linuxstb | http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/rbspeexenc.zip |
| 18:30:55 | preglow | linuxstb: stellar, thanks |
| 18:31:28 | preglow | new exe is smaller than the old, nice |
| 18:31:37 | preglow | did you try to run it? |
| 18:32:37 | linuxstb | No... |
| 18:32:44 | preglow | no biggie, it probably works |
| 18:32:51 | linuxstb | Unstripped was about 125KB |
| 18:32:57 | preglow | sounds right |
| 18:32:59 | | Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend") |
| 18:33:03 | preglow | the old was around that size |
| 18:33:44 | jhMikeS | preglow: would not skipping lookahead only on the silence clip have worked too? |
| 18:33:48 | | Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 18:34:21 | preglow | jhMikeS: lookahead really should be skipped only after initing the encoder anyway |
| 18:34:28 | preglow | jhMikeS: and afaik, that's what i just made it do |
| 18:34:58 | | Join Traveler5 [0] (n=traveler@CPE-69-23-137-242.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 18:35:07 | Traveler5 | hey hey |
| 18:35:09 | preglow | jhMikeS: and how do i know which clip is the silence clip? |
| 18:35:11 | jhMikeS | yeah, just wondering if gaps could show up if the lookahead gets long or there's a shift? |
| 18:35:52 | jhMikeS | preglow: I suppose I'd have a way for the voice thread to find that out and compare pointers. |
| 18:36:29 | preglow | jhMikeS: just do it like this till people complain? |
| 18:36:37 | jhMikeS | ok |
| 18:36:40 | preglow | afaik, this should work out fine |
| 18:37:36 | Traveler5 | looked at the hello world example. if I make a game for rockbox I prettymuch have my variables initialized then do a while(exit == 0) loop? |
| 18:38:01 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:38:10 | jhMikeS | Traveler5: whatever suits what you're implementing |
| 18:39:08 | Traveler5 | well the hello world plugin terminates after running once, right? |
| 18:39:14 | jhMikeS | the plugin stays active until the entrypoint returns somehow |
| 18:39:30 | Traveler5 | so it will loop automatically? |
| 18:39:32 | jhMikeS | never looked at it |
| 18:39:53 | Billenium | BRB |
| 18:41:15 | n1s | Traveler5: no it doesn't, many games do what you want though so looking at them might be of more interest to you |
| 18:42:08 | jhMikeS | plugin is running until plugin_start returns. what conditions you decide to have it return on is up to your design. |
| 18:42:26 | Traveler5 | alright then I'll stick with my original plan of a looped 'main method' |
| 18:43:03 | | Join Rondom [0] (n=Rondom@p57A94F26.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:43:04 | Traveler5 | well my layout would be setup, main loop, return probably |
| 18:44:34 | preglow | and will almost certainly work just great |
| 18:44:46 | preglow | code it however you like, as long as you don't return from plugin_main, you'll be fine |
| 18:44:58 | jhMikeS | you have to to stop it :) |
| 18:45:16 | | Quit BigBambi (Remote closed the connection) |
| 18:45:47 | * | jhMikeS wonders if it's time to discuss TSR plugins now :) |
| 18:46:01 | Traveler5 | well the program will be too goodto end :P |
| 18:47:20 | Traveler5 | TSR? |
| 18:47:43 | jhMikeS | Terminate and Stay Resident |
| 18:48:04 | jhMikeS | battery_bench is one of those |
| 18:51:59 | preglow | jhMikeS: seems i have a new fun problem with dithering |
| 18:52:50 | * | jhMikeS gets too many associations upon hearing "dithering" |
| 18:52:55 | preglow | jhMikeS: a guy uploaded one of thoC[C[C[Cse mastered-to-pieces metal tracks, and with crossfeed enabled, it actually seems to exhaust the 4 bit headroom of the mp3 output format... |
| 18:53:09 | preglow | eh, that's supposed to be "those", there, god knows what happened |
| 18:53:26 | preglow | i have no idea how that is possible, and i shall have to investigate |
| 18:53:41 | jhMikeS | I thought the 4-bit headroom was slightly too small |
| 18:53:48 | preglow | i thought it should be plenty |
| 18:54:24 | preglow | but of course, that is assuming none of it is in use after decoding |
| 18:54:27 | preglow | and that's not true at all |
| 18:54:32 | jhMikeS | Limiting decoder output to 24-bits would be just fine imho |
| 18:54:37 | preglow | mp3 can overshoot that to an amazing degree |
| 18:56:35 | jhMikeS | The problem is just an ARM problem I take it? |
| 18:57:31 | preglow | not in the least |
| 18:57:40 | preglow | dithering doesn't use emac |
| 18:57:46 | jhMikeS | but it does clamp |
| 18:57:55 | jhMikeS | or is it wrapping noise? |
| 18:57:58 | preglow | wrappinmg |
| 18:58:07 | preglow | if the sample it gets is maxed out, dithering will overflow it |
| 18:58:14 | preglow | and with emac, it can be maxed out |
| 18:58:23 | preglow | because we have saturation for that enabled |
| 18:58:46 | jhMikeS | I did want to do an emac version of that |
| 18:58:48 | preglow | but yes, another couple of bits of headroom would not hurt in the least |
| 18:59:11 | preglow | codecs like wma definitely need to be fixed |
| 18:59:15 | preglow | i think it has one bit of headroom |
| 18:59:16 | jhMikeS | then check if the sample is already as close to saturation as the amount you want to add to it first |
| 18:59:31 | preglow | and this will all break on arm, of course |
| 18:59:37 | preglow | i should try the track on arm, actually |
| 18:59:37 | | Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:06 | jhMikeS | I think > 24 bits should be forbidden and fail with an irritating beep noise |
| 19:00:06 | | Quit midgey (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:00:17 | | Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu) |
| 19:00:47 | preglow | hmmm |
| 19:01:06 | jhMikeS | or should be do 64-bit samples just in case? :p |
| 19:01:06 | preglow | i just tested |
| 19:01:12 | preglow | and crossfeed alone doesn't overflow |
| 19:01:15 | preglow | but with dithering, it does |
| 19:01:19 | preglow | so there has to be something else wrong here |
| 19:02:02 | jhMikeS | dithering of course can increase amplitude later if amplitude fell short previously (can't express this right) |
| 19:04:29 | | Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54964920.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:07:32 | | Nick ionvas is now known as ionvas__ (n=ionvas__@217.189.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 19:08:49 | preglow | no, you did fail quite severely there :) |
| 19:09:28 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@wlrsvd-201.njit.edu) |
| 19:11:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:11:49 | jhMikeS | the error delta will sum back later and if it matches the sign of the input, amplitude will go up |
| 19:13:16 | jhMikeS | dither random is a nice purple noise generator.../me thinks UV noise is better :p |
| 19:13:40 | | Quit UncleRem1s ("leaving") |
| 19:14:04 | | Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (n=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar) |
| 19:14:37 | preglow | i have no idea what kind of noise we use right now |
| 19:14:52 | preglow | i think it's rand - prevrand or something, which looks like tri-pdf, but isn't |
| 19:15:03 | | Quit atsea- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:15:03 | preglow | and also looks like highpassed noise |
| 19:16:35 | | Quit midgey () |
| 19:17:55 | jhMikeS | differentiated white noise = purple noise |
| 19:19:10 | | Join atsea- [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-390a8b4c66aecd88) |
| 19:19:37 | | Quit Traveler5 ("Java user signed off") |
| 19:20:08 | jhMikeS | so from nyquist down it should drop -6 db / octave |
| 19:21:27 | | Join radinp [0] (n=pradin@cpe-68-173-10-48.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 19:22:06 | | Quit kclaf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:24:41 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@121-021-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 19:24:58 | | Join woodensoul [0] (n=woodenso@72.86.92.80) |
| 19:25:32 | woodensoul | Hey guys, can I get permission to edit the Wiki so I can upload WPSs? |
| 19:25:47 | preglow | jhMikeS: sounds like what we use |
| 19:26:04 | radinp | IWhat are WPS's? |
| 19:26:34 | preglow | jhMikeS: do you know what the rules are for determining at amplitude to add dithering noise? |
| 19:26:39 | woodensoul | radinp: New to Rockbox? While Playing Screen |
| 19:26:50 | preglow | jhMikeS: rect-pdf noise should be added at 0.5 lsb, tri-pdf at 1 lsb, but i don't know why |
| 19:27:10 | bertrik | it's even in wikipedia ??? :P |
| 19:27:15 | linuxstb | woodensoul: What's your wiki name? |
| 19:27:46 | | Join kclaf [0] (i=kclaf@85.95.211.245) |
| 19:28:08 | radinp | woodensoul: yeah I'm a new a n00b, but I have started developing a regular expression library for rb. |
| 19:28:10 | linuxstb | woodensoul: Done. |
| 19:28:26 | woodensoul | thanks linuxstb |
| 19:28:38 | woodensoul | expression library? |
| 19:30:30 | | Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) |
| 19:30:57 | | Join Bagder_ [0] (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) |
| 19:31:14 | radinp | woodensoul: A regular expression library would allow string matching using a predefined set of operators on expressions. E.g. (*) or (+). |
| 19:31:35 | | Quit SirFunk (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:32:09 | radinp | This would pave way to the addition of a search function in the text_editor. |
| 19:32:56 | linuxstb | You make it sound as if you could have a search function without regexps... |
| 19:34:21 | * | preglow wonders how people can stand using text_editor |
| 19:34:22 | radinp | Sure, you could use the standard string library and use strcmp |
| 19:34:23 | woodensoul | sounds good radinp |
| 19:35:28 | radinp | I'm sure this regular expression library could be useful for other plugins but text_editor is the only one I can think of at the moment. |
| 19:37:23 | | Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) |
| 19:39:14 | rasher | preglow: It's not *that* bad once you get to know it. I wrote a (simple) WPS in it. Faster than endless usb connect/disconnect loops |
| 19:39:14 | jhMikeS | preglow: rect-pdf? where's that? |
| 19:41:04 | * | jhMikeS is being dumb (thinking pdf doc) and has no little knowledge of actual terms for things. |
| 19:41:48 | preglow | jhMikeS: pdf = probability distribution function |
| 19:41:53 | jhMikeS | ah |
| 19:42:10 | preglow | jhMikeS: really just decides how likely the different sample values are to occur, rectangular pdf means all samples occur with the same probability |
| 19:42:14 | | Quit freqmod__nx (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:43:29 | * | jhMikeS would normally say "uniform distribution" |
| 19:43:34 | | Join freqmod_nx [0] (i=freqmod@dhcp208-90.ed.ntnu.no) |
| 19:44:04 | jhMikeS | I can say why...the area of a triangle is 1/2 the area of a rectangle |
| 19:44:25 | preglow | sounds logical, yes... |
| 19:44:53 | preglow | but can you then explain at what amplitude highpass triangular dither should be applied? :P afaik, that's what we use |
| 19:47:20 | | Join briantumor [0] (n=echelon@ool-44c7f686.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:47:22 | briantumor | hi |
| 19:47:30 | briantumor | do they have tron for rockbox?? |
| 19:47:36 | briantumor | that would be nice |
| 19:47:44 | briantumor | i'd never put down my sansa :\ |
| 19:48:28 | scorche|w | all plugins that are deemed "done" by us are included with rockbox |
| 19:48:46 | briantumor | :\ |
| 19:48:54 | | Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:48:58 | briantumor | there aren't any other repositories? |
| 19:49:12 | krazykit | no, except what's on the tracker. |
| 19:49:16 | briantumor | hmm |
| 19:49:18 | briantumor | k |
| 19:49:21 | preglow | there are |
| 19:49:23 | jhMikeS | preglow: I'm ashamed of the lack of specificity of my previous remark required to make that statement true :[p |
| 19:49:23 | preglow | but not many |
| 19:49:38 | krazykit | there are several GPL tron clones that you could probably port. |
| 19:49:52 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:50:09 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF4176.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:53:28 | * | jhMikeS studies this dithery gadget |
| 20:00 |
| 20:06:17 | radinp | So what is the advantage of using Git over Subversion for development? It seems like they both perform the same functionality. |
| 20:06:34 | | Quit japc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:06:48 | | Quit J3TC- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:07:23 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 20:07:52 | scorche|w | radinp: that might be something to talk about in #git (or whereever they have their channel) |
| 20:08:05 | male | I wouldn't do it. |
| 20:08:16 | male | It's a pretty stupid question. |
| 20:08:28 | scorche|w | ... |
| 20:08:35 | male | And they won't take kindly to it... |
| 20:09:33 | male | They short answer is the svn "performs the functionality" of CVS, and git is nothing like CVS. |
| 20:09:53 | male | s/They/The; s/the/that/ |
| 20:10:06 | | Quit kclaf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:10:20 | scorche|w | male: my point was that it is offtopic here.. |
| 20:10:34 | male | Is it? rockbox uses svn. |
| 20:10:45 | male | I assume that's why he brought it up. |
| 20:11:36 | radinp | Sorry about that question. I think it's an appropriate question. As it's integral to the development of rockbox. |
| 20:12:00 | krazykit | radinp, i'd search the IRC logs. i believe it's been discussed in this channel before. |
| 20:12:02 | scorche|w | radinp: ah, but you didnt phrase it as if it applied to rockbox ;) |
| 20:12:36 | scorche|w | male: the question is offtopic...asking about how it would impact rockbox is on-topic |
| 20:12:38 | jhMikeS | preglow: where does this distribution come in? shaping more strongly near the x axis? and less at the extreme amplitudes? |
| 20:12:40 | rasher | amiconn: would you mind testing a patch to buildzip.pl? I've just gone for the low-hanging fruit, so I'm not sure it makes any difference in speed |
| 20:13:13 | scorche|w | radinp: this may be of use: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GitVersionControl |
| 20:13:15 | male | scorche|w: Are discussions of what is and what isn't on-topic, on-topic/ |
| 20:14:07 | radinp | scorche|w: Thanks, I knew I saw that page previously. |
| 20:14:15 | male | Using git to track an svn repo is better than having to use svn directly, but it's nothing like using the git model alone. |
| 20:14:54 | scorche|w | male: is there something you are trying to get at with that question? |
| 20:15:51 | markun | scorche|w: that we should switch to git of course :) |
| 20:16:20 | scorche|w | markun: the question...not the statement ;) |
| 20:16:21 | male | scorche|w: You spam the channel more with this on-topic, off-topic bull**** than would just letting small asides slide. |
| 20:16:51 | scorche|w | male: it prevents further spam |
| 20:16:53 | markun | ouch ;) |
| 20:16:59 | scorche|w | spam/offtopicness |
| 20:17:18 | scorche|w | it may not do it immediately, but it does |
| 20:17:23 | tierra | This discussion was only going to devolve into an argument about which VCS is better anyway, which never gets anywhere. |
| 20:18:01 | radinp | Git looks very interesting, but it looks like it will be a pain to use in conjunction with subversion. Looks like Git makes a lot of sense if you're starting a project from scratch. |
| 20:18:03 | markun | tierra: why not? That's how we switched from cvs to subversion, which I don't think anyone regrets |
| 20:18:40 | scorche|w | the current position is mainly: "yes we see that git offers many benefits, but is it really worth the effort to change?" |
| 20:20:05 | Nico_P | yeah I'm not sure git would bring a benefit as main VCS for us |
| 20:20:31 | scorche|w | wel, it would.. |
| 20:20:34 | scorche|w | :) |
| 20:20:44 | Nico_P | yeah, but lots of complications too |
| 20:20:51 | scorche|w | exactly |
| 20:20:59 | male | It isn't much effort to change to git at all. |
| 20:21:01 | Nico_P | it is very nice for local dev though |
| 20:21:04 | preglow | jhMikeS: mno |
| 20:21:14 | male | The hard part is convincing everybody that the svn repo is shutdown ;-) |
| 20:21:28 | Nico_P | male: changing the repo isn't hard, but teaching everyone to use it is |
| 20:21:31 | preglow | jhMikeS: dithering function output doesn't have anything to do with signal amplitude |
| 20:21:37 | n1s | male: we have a buch of scripts that need adjusting etc... |
| 20:21:52 | male | n1s: True. |
| 20:21:58 | radinp | So, with this distributed approach where would a backup copy of the rockbox source sit? |
| 20:22:13 | scorche|w | a backup copy? |
| 20:22:16 | markun | male: well, we also have some scripts which need to be changed |
| 20:22:19 | male | Everyone has a copy in git. |
| 20:22:26 | Nico_P | male: I use it and love it... but I think it would be overkill for us as a main repo |
| 20:22:29 | * | amiconn would hate switching to git |
| 20:22:40 | markun | amiconn: why? |
| 20:22:52 | Nico_P | markun: rockbox.org would have the main repo |
| 20:22:53 | scorche|w | well, first off, there isnt a windows client |
| 20:22:55 | amiconn | Because of slowness |
| 20:22:58 | markun | Nico_P: so? |
| 20:23:00 | male | That's bullshit. |
| 20:23:01 | Nico_P | scorche|w: it's coming |
| 20:23:11 | male | They go to a lot of trouble to support windows. |
| 20:23:12 | scorche|w | Nico_P: yes |
| 20:23:13 | preglow | git is hardly slow |
| 20:23:21 | male | (god knows why) |
| 20:23:23 | Nico_P | markun: sorry, that was for radinp (same nick color) |
| 20:23:31 | amiconn | And I really don't get why git should be superior to svn |
| 20:23:34 | scorche|w | male: it sint bullshit...there is not currently a proper windows client |
| 20:23:38 | amiconn | svn does all we need... |
| 20:24:04 | male | scorche|w: Proper meaning.... Completely monolithic and standalone? |
| 20:24:11 | Nico_P | scorche|w: and there is no tortoisegit ;) |
| 20:24:20 | preglow | amiconn: it's easier to do several branches and stuff with git, but we don't do that much anyway |
| 20:24:22 | scorche|w | male: see Nico_P for what i mean |
| 20:24:28 | Nico_P | male: you have to admit windows support is pretty poor ATM |
| 20:24:50 | Nico_P | preglow: maybe we would if it were easy ;) |
| 20:25:05 | markun | amiconn: it's easier for me to work on multiple areas of rockbox with git than with svn |
| 20:25:06 | amiconn | I don't need a native windows client, cygwin would be sufficient, but the cygwin git port is reported to be sloo-ow |
| 20:25:06 | Nico_P | amiconn: git is faaast one linux |
| 20:25:14 | Nico_P | s/one/on/ |
| 20:25:14 | preglow | Nico_P: why? i thought we decided against using several branches |
| 20:25:25 | Nico_P | preglow: did we? |
| 20:25:31 | jhMikeS | preglow: just wonder atm what is distributed in a triangular fashion...the values for error? |
| 20:25:36 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955DE0F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:25:37 | preglow | Nico_P: sure, that's why all the mrobe development is happening in the main repo right now |
| 20:26:03 | preglow | jhMikeS: the values for dither, the random output |
| 20:26:12 | Nico_P | preglow: IIRC we decided to use branches to maintain releases, and mrobe dev is in trunk because merging is a PITA in svn |
| 20:26:12 | * | amiconn didn't and doesn't use those tortoise* thingies |
| 20:26:16 | scorche|w | preglow: partly because it is such a pain to merge |
| 20:26:23 | * | scorche|w is too slow |
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| 20:26:34 | preglow | scorche|w: no, that wasn't part of the reason at all |
| 20:26:49 | preglow | jhMikeS: a rect-pdf dither will spit out values from -1 to +1 with equal probability, where tri-pdf will tend to spit out values around 0 |
| 20:27:01 | Nico_P | preglow: it was the reason why the S devs merged their branch back |
| 20:27:02 | jhMikeS | random alone surely isn't |
| 20:27:10 | tierra | Was I not correct? This discussion simply devolved into an argument... |
| 20:27:14 | markun | preglow: well, it *was* a pain to merge the gigabeat branch back |
| 20:27:14 | radinp | I'm starting to see the benefits of Git. It seems very similar to bittorrent approach. |
| 20:27:25 | tierra | no-one here is going to come out ahead |
| 20:27:27 | amiconn | Nico_P: Yeah, but not everybody uses linux. Even though I have a linux box, and I know linux is faster at building rockbox, I'm still doing most of my development in cygwin |
| 20:27:30 | tierra | you should all get back on topic |
| 20:27:38 | preglow | Nico_P: but not the reason we decided to put all future ports in the main branch, that was because we feel new port development is better integrated that way |
| 20:27:47 | markun | tierra: which topic do you want to talk about? |
| 20:27:59 | preglow | Nico_P: with new port devs having to take into consideration all the other ports from an early stage, simply because they live in the same tree and do the same daily builds |
| 20:28:00 | Nico_P | amiconn: I'm not saying it's the main argument, but it feels real good and when the windows version comes to that level you might like it too ;) |
| 20:28:00 | rasher | amiconn: did you see my question about buildzip.pl? |
| 20:28:04 | linuxstb | markun: Looking back, would it have been a problem to have developed the F port in the main Rockbox CVS from the start? |
| 20:28:31 | tierra | well, I don't want to talk about anything in here, but there are probably others here that are being hesitant about interupting your pointless discussion with a request for help with Rockbox |
| 20:28:33 | | Quit evert ("leaving") |
| 20:28:42 | markun | linuxstb: maybe not, but people were experimenting a lot in their own trees and didn't have commit rights |
| 20:28:47 | Nico_P | preglow: I agree ports are better suited in the trunk because they don't hurt anyone, but branches are meant for unstable dev |
| 20:28:58 | bertrik | Would it be acceptable to post 10 sec music clip on the bug tracker, to demonstrate a bug? |
| 20:29:09 | preglow | bertrik: sure |
| 20:29:11 | amiconn | Nico_P: Well, so far I did work with svn (rockbox), but not yet with git. And since I see no benefit in git over svn, I won't start using it until forced (which I would hate) |
| 20:29:19 | Llorean | tierra: This is a rockbox development channel. Since we're discussing how choice of VCS affects the future of Rockbox Development, how is that off topic? |
| 20:29:21 | tierra | besides, if there was to be any decision on the matter, it would half to be discussed on either your mailing lists or forums, right? |
| 20:29:25 | markun | tierra: it will quiet down in an hour :) |
| 20:29:33 | tierra | and you would all just be repeating yourselves |
| 20:29:35 | preglow | i don't care what source code management tools we do use at all |
| 20:29:39 | Nico_P | preglow, amiconn: I would've gone crazy doing MoB without git |
| 20:29:40 | preglow | svn is ok, git will be ok, whatever |
| 20:29:48 | Llorean | tierra: No, actually the people who make the decision are most likely to be here. And absolutely least likely to ever see anything in the forums, which are more for support. |
| 20:30:02 | Nico_P | it could have been something else but it was git |
| 20:30:12 | thgz | Hi again |
| 20:30:14 | radinp | Sorry, it's all my fault |
| 20:30:17 | bertrik | hi thgz |
| 20:30:20 | radinp | I started the Git topic. |
| 20:30:21 | preglow | now that the major annoyances of cvs is gone, i'll be just fine with svn |
| 20:30:28 | preglow | but if someone decides we are to use git, i'm a-ok with that |
| 20:30:31 | * | bertrik agrees with preglow |
| 20:30:31 | Nico_P | tierra: we tend to not use the ML enough |
| 20:30:32 | tierra | so anyone of the devs that this might matter to looses out if they just didn't happen to be here while it's being discussed? that's pretty dumb |
| 20:30:34 | amiconn | Well, what would be the benefit? We do want a central repo, hence no multiple official repos. And I really don't see why I would need an own repo |
| 20:30:55 | preglow | amiconn: a local repo would be fun, though |
| 20:31:01 | Nico_P | amiconn: I didn't either until I had one |
| 20:31:03 | scorche|w | tierra: we keep logs, and many read them....this partly why i enforce many rules here |
| 20:31:06 | amiconn | I have a working copy, and that's sufficient. In *very* rare cases, I use a second working copy |
| 20:31:07 | thgz | Whenever I start SIM with english.voice included, I don't get any speech output in the UI |
| 20:31:19 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Would Rockbox using git officially have made any difference to you? From what it sounds, SVN centrally and git locally seems to work well for people... |
| 20:31:19 | thgz | I'm buildin on Sansa E200 series |
| 20:31:20 | Llorean | tierra: First, the decision can't be made instantly. Second, there are logs. Third, if a dev isn't interested enough in development to at least keep his toe in what's going on, isn't that his own fault? |
| 20:31:23 | male | amiconn: Because it makes it easier on you to develop features with other programmers without polluting the main repo. |
| 20:31:39 | Nico_P | linuxstb: honestly, not much diff, no... I'm fine the way it is |
| 20:31:51 | male | amiconn: It also makes it easier for you to track the development of others. |
| 20:31:54 | amiconn | preglow: Why? Just more overhead to handle... |
| 20:31:55 | tierra | you don't find the logs harder to filter through than a mailing list discussion? |
| 20:32:03 | radinp | Especially developers like myself who are inexperienced with the rb source. |
| 20:32:05 | Nico_P | amiconn: my local repo is probably smaller than *one* of your working copies and I have 4 branches |
| 20:32:14 | | Quit woodensoul () |
| 20:32:44 | linuxstb | Nico_P: So how do you work with local branches? Surely you need local checkouts in order to compile? |
| 20:32:49 | * | amiconn doesn't care much about diskspace |
| 20:33:04 | Llorean | tierra: I didn't say they weren't easier to filter through. But with our number of devs, were git realistically likely to happen, first word would spread, then people would ask for reference to the time in the logs to see what the arguments for and against were, then a decision would be made. |
| 20:33:10 | amiconn | I rather use up some extra diskspace than handle extra overhead |
| 20:33:11 | Nico_P | amiconn: me neither, but it's still a strong point IMO |
| 20:33:11 | male | linuxstb: The checkouts are ephemeral. |
| 20:33:23 | Nico_P | linuxstb: I have one local checkout |
| 20:33:44 | linuxstb | So how does that work? |
| 20:33:53 | amiconn | Why would I need more than the trunk? I really don't understand... |
| 20:34:10 | Nico_P | amiconn: working on several things... |
| 20:34:10 | male | And that's the key problem. |
| 20:34:26 | Llorean | tierra: Your assumption that any major development happens on the mailing list in relations to this project is mostly false. But a message saying "We're contemplating a change to git, and are currently in favour" would go out surely long before a change would happen. |
| 20:34:27 | male | If everybody did a little reading about git I think there would be a lot more enthusiasm here. |
| 20:34:30 | tierra | Llorean: they've still missed their chance to get their word in edge-wise with the people involved with the initial discussion |
| 20:34:35 | bertrik | I don't see any problem at all |
| 20:34:35 | Llorean | tierra: Which is no reason against discussing it realtime. |
| 20:34:39 | Nico_P | linuxstb: you just checkout the branch you want (equivalent to svn switch) |
| 20:34:43 | tierra | that's not really a "discussion" |
| 20:34:48 | jhMikeS | preglow: I am missing part of the picture here though I do understand that the tri-pdf will of course spit out values with the highest p at the center (peak) of the window (well it's a triangular dist. afterall ;) |
| 20:35:13 | Llorean | tierra: Delineating the advantages and disadvantages of it in relation to the needs of Rockbox as a project with multiple inputs is not a discussion? |
| 20:35:24 | amiconn | Nico_P: And why does working on several things need several branches? |
| 20:35:30 | n1s | My opinion is that git is a solution in search of a problem... |
| 20:35:32 | preglow | jhMikeS: then what part of the picture is missing? |
| 20:35:41 | amiconn | I can do that fine within a single working copy.. |
| 20:35:45 | male | amiconn: Because it makes it easier on you. |
| 20:35:50 | Nico_P | amiconn: it doesn't always, but it can become very nice if they are big changes |
| 20:35:52 | tierra | I can only see that process resulting in biased decisions being made based on who happens to be in the channel during the discussion |
| 20:35:56 | male | amiconn: And git has no penalty for branching. |
| 20:35:59 | Llorean | tierra: Were you specifically aware that git would be disadvantageous because in relation to new ports it more readily allows those developing them to work outside of the automated build system, and ignore their impact on existing ports? |
| 20:36:02 | Nico_P | amiconn: I'm curious as to how you manage your work |
| 20:36:15 | Llorean | tierra: Then frankly, you're an idiot for assuming the whole decision will happen here. |
| 20:36:20 | amiconn | male: I'm not afraid of a penalty in the tool, but the penalty of a branch in itself |
| 20:36:25 | Llorean | tierra: If an email goes to the list, SOMEONE has to write it. |
| 20:36:31 | * | amiconn prefers KISS |
| 20:36:37 | male | amiconn: Git is pure KISS. |
| 20:36:47 | Llorean | tierra: If the email is based on a single person's desire for GIT, is it more or less likely to be biased compared to a discussion where some people are against GIT, and some for? |
| 20:37:03 | male | amiconn: It's just that the minimum level of simplicity is more complex than you're used to. |
| 20:37:15 | male | amiconn: (for distributed SCM) |
| 20:37:21 | Nico_P | Llorean: I have to admit I kinda agree with tierra... we underuse the ML |
| 20:37:25 | amiconn | Nico_P: I just work on source files, and commit those changes which belong to the part of the work I want to commit... |
| 20:37:36 | tierra | well, sure, so they even get their chance to explain their point of view completely, then you see everyone's reply to that |
| 20:37:54 | male | amiconn: I'm not aware of anyone who has switch from svn to git and decided to go back. |
| 20:37:59 | tierra | also, generally speaking, posts to mailing lists are much more thought out responses |
| 20:38:00 | Nico_P | amiconn: what do you do when you have large changes you can't commit progressively? and want to work on another small change? |
| 20:38:00 | Llorean | Nico_P: My point isn't about the use of the ML. As I said, this discussion can be linked to in a post to the ML and you know as well as I do, the ML gets used before major changes to "how things work" |
| 20:38:01 | scorche|w | Nico_P: i think so too...especially when you compare with other projects |
| 20:38:24 | tierra | you aren't going to get these quick interjections with stupid comments like "git sucks!" |
| 20:38:24 | amiconn | Nico_P: Then I just leave the big change uncommitted, and work on & commit the small one |
| 20:38:34 | male | amiconn: That's bad and confusing! |
| 20:38:35 | amiconn | But that's so rare it's not even worth discussing |
| 20:38:35 | Llorean | tierra: Obviously, you've never seen our user list. |
| 20:38:45 | male | amiconn: With git you can commit every change without penalty. |
| 20:38:47 | tierra | you don't have a development list? |
| 20:38:52 | Llorean | We have a development list |
| 20:38:59 | preglow | rasher: nice |
| 20:39:00 | amiconn | Perhaps it is due to how I do stuff that requires big changes |
| 20:39:03 | Llorean | Are you making access is restricted to it? |
| 20:39:04 | Nico_P | amiconn: what do you do if the small change is in one of the file you've already changed? it happens to me |
| 20:39:05 | thgz | The problem may be in my Building environment, I try to use a prebuilt binary |
| 20:39:11 | Llorean | making the assumption that, rather |
| 20:39:19 | rasher | preglow: What? |
| 20:39:35 | amiconn | Nico_P: It *never* happened to me that I had non-trivial changes from 2 features within one source file... |
| 20:39:59 | | Join Arathis2 [0] (n=doerk@p508A609E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:40:01 | krazykit | thgz, you're trying to use the sim with a prebuilt .voice? |
| 20:40:02 | preglow | rasher: buildzip patch |
| 20:40:11 | jhMikeS | preglow: some background knowledge is missing to put all together |
| 20:40:12 | amiconn | The only exceptions are the config-*<target>.h files, sometimes |
| 20:40:12 | bertrik | thgz: I also use a prebuilt gnuarm tool chain with no ill effect so far (I've tried something like 100 revisions) |
| 20:40:44 | Nico_P | amiconn: well, you're lucky :) and how do you compile to test? I'm sure you manage all those things I'm asking you about, but git makes them so natural it's hard to imagine working without it |
| 20:40:45 | amiconn | There it might happen that I have 2 features enabled for a target, and in the commit only one feature must be enabled |
| 20:40:59 | amiconn | Nico_P: configure && make && make zip |
| 20:40:59 | Llorean | tierra: Many of the people who'd comment on the -devel list are just as likely to make irrelevant comments. Either because they're in favour of it because it makes unsupported builds easier, or they're against it for philosophical reasons, or whatever. Being a mailing list doesn't automatically make them more well thought out reasons than being IRC makes them less thought out. |
| 20:41:14 | Nico_P | amiconn: of course... but when you have both changes in |
| 20:41:19 | amiconn | (the configure step just once every few weeks) |
| 20:41:27 | amiconn | Then I have both changes in.... |
| 20:41:49 | rasher | preglow: ah yes. I suspect the current patch won't change speed much though. It's the "find" runs that cost most, presumably. |
| 20:42:02 | Llorean | tierra: As well, do you know how many of the core, active, commit access having developers aren't involved in this discussion? |
| 20:42:06 | amiconn | As already said, maybe it's due to the way I do stuff that requires big changes |
| 20:42:11 | Nico_P | amiconn: I did manage perfectly before I started using git, but it does help me a lot |
| 20:42:23 | jhMikeS | aw fsck! :) |
| 20:42:32 | Nico_P | it became a must for me when I had to do offline work |
| 20:43:10 | amiconn | I'm usually thinking it through as far as possible without changing a single line of code (except a few lines of test code here & there), and only if I am sure what to do, start writing the actual code |
| 20:43:21 | | Nick snake_ is now known as Snake (n=Snake@adsl-68-76-119-91.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net) |
| 20:44:10 | | Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu) |
| 20:45:35 | thgz | not working |
| 20:45:35 | preglow | rasher: and that's used for what? |
| 20:46:07 | | Part thgz |
| 20:46:40 | rasher | preglow: well, find is executed a bunch of times to copy rocks, codepages and codecs into the dir |
| 20:46:51 | linuxstb | Nico_P: How do you manage your build directories? |
| 20:47:14 | rasher | preglow: each time executing cp for each file. Causing the hilariously huge slowdown on cygwin |
| 20:47:23 | Nico_P | linuxstb: I only have one (well, one for the sim, one for the target and a third for various things) |
| 20:47:25 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I have separate checkouts for different things I'm working on, with their own sets of build directories. |
| 20:47:33 | Nico_P | linuxstb: but I reuse the same ones each time |
| 20:47:44 | linuxstb | So you need to do a full make each time? |
| 20:47:54 | Nico_P | linuxstb: basically it's like I had only one svn co |
| 20:48:14 | Nico_P | linuxstb: yes, but most of the time, not much files change and I do make -j 3 bin so it's quite fast |
| 20:48:24 | linuxstb | I mean when you switch checkouts... |
| 20:48:31 | linuxstb | Or rather, switch branches. |
| 20:48:33 | * | preglow checks out "make bin" |
| 20:48:33 | Nico_P | yeah that's what I meant to |
| 20:49:04 | | Quit ompaul (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 20:49:11 | preglow | make bin only makes rockbox.* ? |
| 20:49:17 | Nico_P | preglow: yes |
| 20:49:18 | n1s | yep |
| 20:49:22 | | Quit krazykit ("leaving") |
| 20:49:43 | Nico_P | linuxstb: also I don't switch branches every 2 minutes |
| 20:49:55 | linuxstb | preglow: "make help" ;) |
| 20:50:05 | jhMikeS | super fsck...how simple |
| 20:50:17 | sup | : ] |
| 20:50:20 | sup | thank you |
| 20:50:39 | jhMikeS | the highpass is just serendipity |
| 20:50:55 | | Join krazykit [0] (n=krazykit@adsl-76-240-200-149.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:51:10 | preglow | doesn't sansas do backlight fading?= |
| 20:51:29 | bertrik | preglow: no, not that I know of, would like to have it |
| 20:51:30 | jhMikeS | not enough levels that it would look remotely nice |
| 20:51:42 | briantumor | i can't find a gpl 2d tron clone :\ |
| 20:52:03 | | Quit Arathis (Nick collision from services.) |
| 20:52:05 | * | amiconn has ~30 build dirs |
| 20:52:08 | | Quit midgey () |
| 20:52:15 | amiconn | The voice build dirs not included |
| 20:52:18 | | Join TMM [0] (n=hp@ip565b35da.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 20:52:18 | bertrik | if you do it fast, maybe you won't notice the limited fade levels |
| 20:52:19 | Nico_P | :o |
| 20:52:24 | preglow | jhMikeS: levels? most backlights only have two levels but work fine with pwm |
| 20:52:32 | | Join kclaf [0] (i=kclaf@85.95.211.245) |
| 20:52:37 | jhMikeS | it's done with i2s on the AS3514 |
| 20:52:44 | | Nick Arathis2 is now known as Arathis (n=doerk@p508A609E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:53:08 | jhMikeS | *i2c |
| 20:53:19 | preglow | ok, so you can't make it switch quickly enough? |
| 20:53:20 | Nico_P | what I really loved with git was incremental history of my local MoB dev |
| 20:53:22 | bertrik | I know there is a patch for backlight fade, but IIRC it violates some rules regarding i2c use in a tick task |
| 20:53:34 | briantumor | oh yeah... you can adjust the brightness? |
| 20:53:53 | preglow | jhMikeS: does e200 retailos do fading? |
| 20:54:13 | bertrik | yes, there is a 16-step controllable current source, which should result in a linear backlight brightness range |
| 20:54:16 | jhMikeS | bertrick: yeah, using any blocking functions (like mutx_wait) from an ISR is a strict nono |
| 20:54:38 | jhMikeS | preglow: no |
| 20:55:02 | preglow | ok, just wondering since i see that wheel light dimming patch/code uses the user timer |
| 20:55:11 | amiconn | 16 steps would be quite ugly for fading |
| 20:55:14 | jhMikeS | that's just an on/off through GPIO |
| 20:55:20 | preglow | but i guess that's a-ok if it's not in use by pwm fading |
| 20:55:54 | amiconn | iPod Video has 32 brightness levels in hardware. The OF does use it for fading, and the steps are visible |
| 20:56:33 | bertrik | visible ok, but annoyingly so? |
| 20:56:44 | amiconn | Hence rockbox uses software pwm fading *in addition* to using hardware brightness for brightness |
| 20:57:17 | | Join woodensoul [0] (n=woodenso@72.86.92.80) |
| 20:57:18 | preglow | amiconn: btw, did you figure out if pwm is used for 5g/nano backlight intensity? |
| 20:57:35 | woodensoul | How can I delete files I've uploaded to the Wiki? |
| 20:57:42 | amiconn | This is possible because there's a gpio pin for switching the light, independently of the hardware brightness circuit |
| 20:57:59 | bertrik | oh, I was wrong about 16 levels, it's 32 level (including off) |
| 20:58:18 | amiconn | preglow: I would think so. I googled a bit and found that pulse controlled backlight pwm chips are quite common |
| 20:58:30 | preglow | amiconn: has to use a really high freq, then |
| 20:58:42 | amiconn | The hardware pwm is most probably in the kHz range |
| 20:59:00 | preglow | btw, any new bootloaders for 5g/nano? |
| 20:59:37 | preglow | rockbox blinks and glitches very nicely when booting now, thanks to backlight intensity changes |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:37 | amiconn | yeah |
| 21:01:11 | Nico_P | woodensoul: you can't |
| 21:01:11 | | Join MethoS-- [0] (n=clemens@pD955F51B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:01:26 | Nico_P | woodensoul: you can just hide them, only admins can delete files |
| 21:01:27 | amiconn | It goes min brightness (apple loader) -> max brightness (rockbox bootloader) -> min brightness (default in main rb) -> configured brightness |
| 21:01:43 | preglow | hahaha |
| 21:01:53 | preglow | apple loader doesn't seem to use the backlight at all for me |
| 21:01:58 | amiconn | Imo the rockbox bootloader should also use min brightness |
| 21:02:03 | amiconn | On Video it does |
| 21:02:33 | linuxstb | It pretty much has to, as it takes about 10 minutes to boot... |
| 21:03:10 | preglow | amiconn: well, we should match it to what apple uses |
| 21:03:22 | preglow | everything just to avoid the glitching, it looks really bad |
| 21:03:29 | woodensoul | well is there an admin around so I can request they be deleted? |
| 21:03:35 | linuxstb | Is there anything else we want to change the ipod bootloaders? |
| 21:03:39 | bertrik | maybe do not nothing at all to the brightness |
| 21:04:11 | bertrik | *delete not |
| 21:04:14 | preglow | amiconn: there is no backlight at all here when the apple logo is displayed |
| 21:04:30 | amiconn | Just recompiling the bootloader should fix that behaviour, but I didn't try that yet |
| 21:05:15 | amiconn | preglow: You're right. However, I would prefer a little bit of light in our bootloader |
| 21:05:21 | jhMikeS | shouldn't the brightness be at the default when booting then just be switch to the user setting after the logo? other stuff does that. |
| 21:05:35 | amiconn | jhMikeS: It does |
| 21:06:01 | | Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) |
| 21:06:15 | amiconn | But the default is now lowest, and the latest bootloader official bootloader does not yet have brightness control, so it sets full brightness |
| 21:06:24 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:06:26 | Llorean | preglow: The backlight in the apple bootloader being off, to the Rockbox one being on is actually helpful I think |
| 21:06:30 | amiconn | (which is blindingly bright in dark environments) |
| 21:06:31 | | Quit stripwax (Client Quit) |
| 21:06:53 | Llorean | Right now, once the Apple logo is lit, you know you're in Rockbox code, and turning hold on at this point is "too late" and will clear settings instead of going to the Apple FW |
| 21:06:58 | amiconn | Llorean: Yeah, hence I'd just recompile the Video + Nano bootloaders |
| 21:07:12 | preglow | Llorean: too bad it's so damned ugly, then |
| 21:07:19 | amiconn | That should give the default, hence no glitching when switching over to main rockbox |
| 21:07:25 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 21:07:25 | preglow | the light glitching around looks really, really unprofessional |
| 21:07:49 | Llorean | I'm not saying something doesn't need to be done. I'm just saying, I'd prefer if whatever it is, it's still clear when apple hands off to our code. ;) |
| 21:09:14 | jhMikeS | preglow: the sansa has a nice white display for a bit...then black, then rb logo. :) |
| 21:09:43 | amiconn | nice? |
| 21:09:56 | jhMikeS | nice = not so nice here :) |
| 21:10:34 | Llorean | Speaking of logos, why not have the Rockbox bootloader display a logo? |
| 21:10:46 | rasher | We need a pretty logo first.. |
| 21:10:52 | * | rasher ducks and runs |
| 21:10:53 | bertrik | barrywardell made a patch for that I think |
| 21:11:02 | amiconn | "Yes is no and no is yes. Delete all files? (n):" |
| 21:11:05 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:11:07 | Llorean | Specifically, the mono-version of the Rockbox logo, in the same location that the color version now displays, so it's still small, but looks nice? |
| 21:11:49 | amiconn | Llorean: Mainly we need a *small* logo, as on some targets, the bootloader must not exceed a size limit which is quite low |
| 21:11:52 | Llorean | And a version number, so when asking people their bootloader version, we can get a useful answer. |
| 21:12:02 | bertrik | FS #7977, I haven't tested it myself |
| 21:12:08 | Llorean | amiconn: Would a mono fit on those targets? |
| 21:12:12 | amiconn | My idea was using a compressed bitmap |
| 21:12:55 | amiconn | Llorean: Would probably look strange... |
| 21:13:54 | | Quit The-Compiler ("Verlassend") |
| 21:14:38 | jhMikeS | forget bitmaps, use YUV420 then ucl compress that. It starts out 3/4 the size then uncompressed. :) |
| 21:14:53 | | Join hannesd_ [0] (n=light@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) |
| 21:15:21 | amiconn | ? |
| 21:16:30 | bertrik | with colored bars on the background while checking the application's CRC |
| 21:17:44 | amiconn | ooops |
| 21:17:51 | amiconn | svn bootloader crashes... |
| 21:17:57 | preglow | jhMikeS: oh, wait, you can dct it, quantize the coefs, then run-length encode that too!! |
| 21:19:09 | preglow | really, what encoding is the filename in fopen() supposed to be encoded like? the current locale? |
| 21:19:45 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) |
| 21:20:06 | amiconn | mrrrf! |
| 21:20:18 | amiconn | Why does that bootloader just crash? |
| 21:20:20 | jhMikeS | preglow: think you're on to something there! :) |
| 21:22:42 | n1s | pixelma: I checked out using different targets in a translation vs english, turns out english decides what goes in (as I thought) possibly could be a problem for voice file generation though... |
| 21:22:52 | * | jhMikeS next step: how does a series of differentiation of rect-pdf give you tri-pdf? probably a ridiculously simple answer too...eck studying. :P |
| 21:23:48 | pixelma | jhMikeS: "nice white display"? I only see the sandisk logo + "lil monsta" thing and it's also flickering (backlight turning on and off a few times) =) |
| 21:24:19 | linuxstb | amiconn: Have you tried other targets, or just the Video? |
| 21:24:26 | amiconn | Just Video |
| 21:25:24 | preglow | jhMikeS: our dither uses random - prevrandom, that looks more like highpassed rect-pdf to me, but is actually called hp tri |
| 21:25:27 | pixelma | n1s: thanks for checking. That's what I had imagined too... |
| 21:25:40 | jhMikeS | pixelma: just adds exitement to the boot process :) |
| 21:26:12 | pixelma | usually I'm not looking anyways ;) |
| 21:26:57 | bertrik | is booting the OF supposed to have this weird white blooming effect? |
| 21:27:13 | krazykit | bertrik, it seems to happen with some people |
| 21:27:56 | bertrik | I see it everytime I boot the OF and it looks a bit unhealthy |
| 21:28:40 | jhMikeS | basically LCD refresh has been stopped for a little while |
| 21:28:50 | amiconn | Hmm, r15598 bootloader (last pre-brightness) works.. |
| 21:31:00 | | Quit hannesd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 21:31:07 | | Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 21:31:19 | amiconn | Eek, and r15600 (first proper past-brightness) crashes... |
| 21:31:48 | | Join jhulst_ [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 21:33:10 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
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| 21:34:19 | | Quit radinp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:36:59 | linuxstb | amiconn: If it helps, SVN bootloader works fine on my ipod Color. On my Video, I get a hard crash (disk powers down with a click) and the apple logo turns into a white square... |
| 21:37:08 | preglow | :D |
| 21:37:17 | amiconn | Yes, with some pixel gibberish in it |
| 21:37:34 | linuxstb | Clever effect... |
| 21:39:16 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 21:39:24 | | Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 21:41:02 | Billenium | mIRC on linux ftw? |
| 21:41:07 | | Quit Billenium (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:41:27 | roolku | Nico_P: any ideas regarding FS #8201? *nag* *nag* :) |
| 21:41:48 | preglow | linuxstb: oh, btw, what status does the hw eq removal patch have? |
| 21:41:59 | Nico_P | roolku: sorry, no |
| 21:42:08 | roolku | :( |
| 21:42:14 | linuxstb | preglow: Last I saw was that there was a bug that needed squashing... |
| 21:42:57 | linuxstb | amiconn: Are you enabling interrupts in the backlight function? |
| 21:43:09 | amiconn | no |
| 21:43:23 | amiconn | I am disabling them, and restore the old value again |
| 21:43:34 | | Quit jhulst_ ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 21:43:41 | amiconn | So if they already are disabled, they stay disabled |
| 21:45:21 | | Quit jhulst (Connection timed out) |
| 21:45:46 | | Join Casainho [0] (n=chatzill@87-196-88-56.net.novis.pt) |
| 21:45:52 | Casainho | hello guys :-) |
| 21:46:25 | Casainho | I am looking for help about buttonlight wheel on Sansa... |
| 21:46:48 | Casainho | I need to know wich part of the code tunr of the light off after time out time... |
| 21:47:42 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 21:48:14 | | Join billenium [0] (i=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:48:58 | jhMikeS | well isn't that the sweetest little thing.../me made a triangular distrution generator with a graph |
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| 21:51:02 | | Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:51:51 | bertrik | Casainho: check out backlight.c |
| 21:51:53 | | Quit barrywardell (Client Quit) |
| 21:52:17 | | Quit woodensoul () |
| 21:52:43 | Casainho | bertrik: this one? : static void buttonlight_update_state(void) |
| 21:52:45 | bertrik | _buttonlight_on/off is the hardware function that actually turns it on or off |
| 21:53:06 | bertrik | for sansa it's implemented in backlight-c200_e200.c |
| 21:53:35 | bertrik | Casainho: yes, as far as I know |
| 21:54:49 | Nico_P | roolku: have you seen a relation between the place of the tracks in the buffer and the fact that their info isn't saved? |
| 21:54:55 | Casainho | bertrik: I made this code: comment 3: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8110?histring=sansa%20wheel%20light&pagenum=2 |
| 21:54:57 | Nico_P | I mean frist/last |
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| 21:56:46 | Casainho | and in static void buttonlight_update_state(void), I put "wheel_light_quantity = 0;" instead of the original "_buttonlight_off();"... |
| 21:57:02 | Casainho | It works partiality... |
| 21:57:06 | preglow | jhMikeS: ordinary tri generator that graphs output occurences? |
| 21:57:14 | bertrik | How fast do you update it? |
| 21:57:31 | Casainho | at 100 micro secounds... |
| 21:57:55 | bertrik | I think that's even faster than the fiq handler for audio .... |
| 21:58:21 | | Quit scorche (Nick collision from services.) |
| 21:58:23 | Casainho | Ĩt's working nice, but It don't turn off at time off, but turns off If I select OFF in menu settings... |
| 21:58:47 | Casainho | ehehe - I don't know nothing about fiq handler for audio... :-) |
| 21:58:50 | | Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 21:58:59 | roolku | Nico_P: it's the last one in the loop of call's to the unbuffer call backs |
| 21:59:49 | jhMikeS | preglow: yeah |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:01 | Casainho | bertrik: I want to know from where comes the time off, because time off is not offing the wheel light... :-( |
| 22:00:02 | bertrik | as far as I know, the audio DMA interrupt runs at less than 1 kHz and it's asm-optimised for performance |
| 22:00:08 | preglow | jhMikeS: lemme see |
| 22:00:10 | Nico_P | roolku: ok |
| 22:00:18 | Nico_P | I'll try to look when I finish supper |
| 22:00:22 | roolku | Nico_P: so assuming 5 files get buffered, the loop is executed 4 times when the rest of file 5 is buffered and file 5 will not have its elapsed time set |
| 22:00:23 | preglow | jhMikeS: also, could you graph the output of what we use? rand - prevrand |
| 22:00:32 | bertrik | so you're probably wasting some battery life just for the wheel fade |
| 22:00:33 | jhMikeS | that's what it's graphing |
| 22:00:36 | roolku | sorry |
| 22:00:46 | roolku | Nico_P: ... and file 4 will not have its elapsed time set |
| 22:00:53 | preglow | jhMikeS: i'd love to see the graph |
| 22:00:55 | Casainho | I can lower the frequency :-) |
| 22:01:06 | jhMikeS | I made it do fancy things...hold on |
| 22:02:38 | bertrik | there are better ways than PWM to do duty-cycle modulation that may help to lower the frequency and still keep it from flickering |
| 22:03:19 | amiconn | linuxstb: I think I know what's going on, abot to test... |
| 22:03:28 | jhMikeS | just a stupid excel thing - the script: http://rafb.net/p/8mPdjX60.html |
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| 22:03:49 | | Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) |
| 22:03:51 | bertrik | I disabled the wheel light by the way, it's too damn bright |
| 22:03:52 | preglow | jhMikeS: excel, oh, that microsoft windows thing |
| 22:03:59 | * | preglow strokes his linux |
| 22:04:13 | amiconn | bertrik: The software pwm for backlight fading on several ipods and iriver h1x0 uruns at 200Hz |
| 22:04:18 | amiconn | (i.e. 400 ints/sec) |
| 22:04:23 | amiconn | Completely flicker free |
| 22:05:04 | jhMikeS | preglow: graph coming |
| 22:05:06 | roolku | Nico_P: i have DEBUGFed prev_track_elapsed = curtrack_id3.elapsed; |
| 22:05:13 | bertrik | ok, and how many steps can it make? |
| 22:05:29 | amiconn | linuxstb: The problem was that _backlight_hw_enable uses sleep() |
| 22:05:42 | linuxstb | I thought sleep was faked? |
| 22:05:51 | amiconn | It seems like it's not |
| 22:05:54 | roolku | Nico_P: and they both seem to have the right time (well a time that is not 0), but not the recored that is pointed to by track_ridx |
| 22:05:55 | Nico_P | roolku: what's probably happening is that curtrack_id3 for the last song isn't written back to the main buffer |
| 22:06:05 | linuxstb | But doesn't the ATA driver need sleep()? |
| 22:06:10 | amiconn | I replaced it with udelays for bootloaders, and that fixes the bootloader |
| 22:06:37 | Casainho | bertrik: with 100us, I can have 1%, 100 steps -> 100 * 100us = 10ms |
| 22:07:05 | jhMikeS | jhmikes.cleansoap.org/tri-pdf.bmp">http://jhmikes.cleansoap.org/tri-pdf.bmp |
| 22:07:16 | roolku | Nico_P: yes, I thinks so too |
| 22:07:33 | preglow | jhMikeS: that looks an awful lot like a triangle, yes |
| 22:07:40 | Casainho | bertrik: what are others ways for doing duty-cycle and lower frequency - to save battery? |
| 22:07:47 | bertrik | If 200 Hz works for the backlight, then I think it should also work for the wheel light, unless the backlight has some hardware filter that the wheel has not |
| 22:08:02 | preglow | jhMikeS: so there are two ways to make a triangle pdf, apparently |
| 22:08:10 | pixelma | roolku, Nico_P: I noticed a weird effect if a playlist ends and the player is turned off through idle power off, then when I start again and try to resume it plays the last seconds of the last track again, that happens only once. All next tries show the "nothing to resume" splash correctly. It only seems to happen if the playlist is longer so it has to rebuffer at some point. Could it be related, or not? |
| 22:08:13 | preglow | jhMikeS: and this one has less noise around dc than the other one |
| 22:08:36 | Casainho | I did chose an hight freq, 4 times the 25hz for human eye don't perceive |
| 22:08:42 | | Quit billenium (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:08:45 | preglow | jhMikeS: does this reveal to you at which amplitude it should be mixed with the audio, though? |
| 22:09:40 | bertrik | Casainho: you can use a kind of accumulator that you add the desired light level to. The overflow bit is then the bit to enable/disable the wheel light |
| 22:10:01 | | Quit ender` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:10:19 | bertrik | for example, if you add 128 to the accumulator, it will overflow once every two cycles, making a 50% duty cycle |
| 22:10:30 | bertrik | (overflow to the 8-th bit I mean) |
| 22:10:34 | amiconn | Casainho: Setting the timer to 100us permanently is a waste |
| 22:10:37 | jhMikeS | well, tri will produce the same max amplitude as rect but twice the width (to get the same area) |
| 22:10:37 | | Quit Frazz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:10:48 | amiconn | YOu could just do what the backlight software pwm does |
| 22:11:24 | jhMikeS | wait, actually tri will produce twice the amplitude and twice the dist width |
| 22:11:30 | Casainho | well, I don't know how backlight pwm work, I didin't look for that... |
| 22:11:46 | | Quit Fraser ("Leaving") |
| 22:12:13 | amiconn | It programs the timer for each phase, so even though the backlight pwm uses half the period (5ms repeat cycle and 1% steps), it just fires 400 interrupts/sec, not 10,000 |
| 22:12:13 | bertrik | the way of duty-cycle modulation I'm proposing always results in the highest possible switching frequency |
| 22:12:19 | Casainho | bertrik: thanks for that infor about accumulator |
| 22:12:35 | amiconn | That said, a permanent software pwm will most likely be rejected for svn inclusion |
| 22:12:58 | jhMikeS | I guess it needs appropriate scaling...haven't looked at the full pipeline of stuff yet |
| 22:13:07 | bertrik | amiconn: ah ok, you use a hardware timer to trigger the interrupts |
| 22:13:22 | amiconn | bertrik: Yes, sure. There is no other way |
| 22:13:30 | Casainho | I understand - I just wanted to learn and have wheel light with less bright... |
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| 22:14:20 | linuxstb | amiconn: Seems there is a special case for the bootloader in sleep(), so it seems that's broken? |
| 22:14:46 | Casainho | bertrik: don't you want to implement your way for this wheel light PWM? |
| 22:14:51 | amiconn | linuxstb: I'm not sure. The ata driver does use sleep() - and it doesn't break... |
| 22:14:57 | roolku | pixelma: I wouldn't say related, but I think I have seen that behaviour as well actually |
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| 22:15:26 | amiconn | bertrik: I can't see what other method than pwm would deliver higher frequency at a given average interrupt rate |
| 22:15:56 | linuxstb | amiconn: But doesn't it only use sleep() if something goes wrong? IIRC the ipod bootloaders worked for a long time with a broken sleep(), and we only noticed when testing on the 5.5g? |
| 22:16:07 | roolku | pixelma: the missing elapsed time happens for every rebuffer, not just the playlist end |
| 22:16:31 | | Quit scorche (Nick collision from services.) |
| 22:16:45 | bertrik | Casainho: no, the way I explained works differently than the way the backlight is PWM'd |
| 22:17:00 | | Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 22:17:19 | amiconn | linuxstb: Even ata_power_on() uses sleep()... |
| 22:17:40 | Casainho | bertrik: how is backlight PWM'd? - at waht frequency? |
| 22:17:43 | bertrik | I was under the impression that the interrupt was increasing a counter, with something like 255 interrupts for one PWM cycle |
| 22:17:59 | jhMikeS | the output from the history really looks more gaussian...from d it's triangular |
| 22:17:59 | amiconn | bertrik: Not the backlight pwm - see backlight.c |
| 22:18:05 | bertrik | but the backlight uses a different method that can get 1 cycle for two interrupts |
| 22:18:14 | amiconn | It reprograms the timer for the lowest possible interrupt rate |
| 22:18:45 | amiconn | But even the we do not want that permanently enabled |
| 22:18:48 | amiconn | *then |
| 22:18:55 | preglow | jhMikeS: what history? |
| 22:19:18 | Nico_P | pixelma: I don't think it's related, but when you say "last seconds", do you really mean it or is it shorter? I've seen something similar but the played part was very short |
| 22:19:45 | jhMikeS | preglow: error history |
| 22:19:56 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.t-2.net) |
| 22:20:10 | preglow | jhMikeS: oh, right, that might easily be gaussian, yes |
| 22:20:11 | jhMikeS | I'm just looking at each stage in itself atm |
| 22:20:16 | Casainho | amiconn: not permanently enabled, why? |
| 22:20:22 | amiconn | CPU load |
| 22:20:31 | preglow | jhMikeS: like lpc estimation errors are usually exponentially distributed |
| 22:20:34 | | Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye") |
| 22:21:10 | Casainho | so, making PWM, for backlight or others lights, will not be desired? - because of CPU load? |
| 22:21:22 | amiconn | Yes, not permanently |
| 22:21:29 | amiconn | For fade in/fade out it's okay |
| 22:21:54 | amiconn | And btw you cannot easily use it for multiple ligts |
| 22:22:00 | Casainho | ah, I understand, because fade in/out is just sometimes and not always genertaing PWM... |
| 22:22:10 | preglow | amiconn: e200 doesn't have backgliht fading, so it's ok |
| 22:22:39 | Casainho | why can't for multiple lights?? |
| 22:22:57 | bertrik | I think I would already be happy with backlight fades using hardware brightness control |
| 22:23:45 | amiconn | linuxstb: ehhhh... I think I found the real problem now... |
| 22:23:54 | Casainho | is there hardware for brightness control on Sansa e200?? |
| 22:24:01 | amiconn | sleep() *is* faked - but it calls switch_thread() |
| 22:24:11 | linuxstb | That's what I was just looking at... |
| 22:24:19 | amiconn | And the backlight init is called before kernel_init().... |
| 22:24:34 | linuxstb | Ah... |
| 22:25:26 | linuxstb | Is there any reason to call switch_thread in the bootloader? Do any PP bootloaders create threads? |
| 22:25:33 | amiconn | sure |
| 22:25:38 | amiconn | E.g. the ata thread |
| 22:26:02 | pixelma | Nico_P: haven't measured, it's not a very long time. |
| 22:26:08 | amiconn | I'll move backlight_init() past kernel_init() and test |
| 22:26:10 | bertrik | wow, backlight level can go up to 31, but the current maximum 12 is already quite bright |
| 22:26:40 | Nico_P | pixelma: in my case it was less than a second I think |
| 22:27:02 | amiconn | linuxstb: Working nicely... |
| 22:27:04 | Nico_P | pixelma: I filed http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8102 for it |
| 22:27:51 | Casainho | okok - bye bye :-) have good night :-) |
| 22:27:56 | | Quit Casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007102213]") |
| 22:29:28 | pixelma | have to try again, I could reproduce it on both c200 and M5 but not under all circumstances. My impression was that it has to do with playlist longer than buffer or not - not a 100% sure if that's the thing in common. |
| 22:29:32 | | Quit MethoS- ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 22:29:57 | pixelma | Nico_P: ok, maybe I'll comment on it if I got some more details |
| 22:30:21 | amiconn | preglow: You could 'svn up' now and build a Nano bootloader. On Video, the commit fixes the backlight glitching around |
| 22:30:26 | pixelma | BigBambi: wise pixels? ;D |
| 22:31:03 | amiconn | Just off (apple loader) -> minimum brightness (rockbox bootloader, rockbox start) -> configured brightness |
| 22:31:58 | jhMikeS | preglow: you want the amplitude at which the triangular noise should be mixed (the rand output)? |
| 22:32:34 | preglow | aye |
| 22:33:46 | | Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:34:09 | BigBambi | pixelma: Gah |
| 22:34:27 | Lear | Nico_P: Looks similar to what happens when you skip (back?); first you get the fragment from the file you skipped from, before the new track starts playing. PCM buffers not flushed properly? |
| 22:34:42 | Nico_P | Lear: yeah, maybe |
| 22:34:45 | BigBambi | pixelma: I'm stil having problems with switching between QWERTY and AZERTY keyboards each day |
| 22:34:50 | BigBambi | *still |
| 22:35:39 | jhMikeS | preglow: looks like it should be twice what it is |
| 22:35:50 | preglow | jhMikeS: and what makes you say that? |
| 22:36:20 | Nico_P | Lear: the pcm buffer is shown as empty in the debug screen though |
| 22:36:43 | | Join BlackFrog [0] (n=andrew@wi-secure-1697.cc.umanitoba.ca) |
| 22:37:26 | jhMikeS | preglow: not entirely sure yet |
| 22:37:50 | jhMikeS | right now it's only at the fractional level, right? |
| 22:38:27 | BlackFrog | The web server at rockbox.org is sending the mime type for .dmg files to "application/x-apple-diskimage" which someone just made up (its not registered with the iana), it shoudl be "application/octet-stream" |
| 22:38:36 | Lear | Nico_P: Well, I'm not familiar with the low-level audio stuff... :) Could be in the driver level too. |
| 22:38:41 | | Quit J3TC- (".•«UPP»•.") |
| 22:38:47 | Nico_P | Lear: me neither ;) |
| 22:39:03 | | Quit BlackFrog (Client Quit) |
| 22:39:19 | bertrik | Nico_P: I saw some large negative numbers in the buffering thread screen yesterday |
| 22:39:21 | * | jhMikeS back after idea inducing smoke |
| 22:39:33 | Nico_P | bertrik: oooh, not good |
| 22:39:44 | jhMikeS | not the fancy kind of smoke though :p |
| 22:40:00 | preglow | i thought you said you wanted ideas! |
| 22:41:31 | | Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 3.0b1/2007110904]") |
| 22:41:33 | briantumor | no tron for rockbox :( |
| 22:41:44 | briantumor | and i can't find a 2d tron that doesn't use x :\ |
| 22:41:57 | preglow | well, you'd have to port it, yes |
| 22:42:12 | briantumor | well.. i mean.. i just know ktron |
| 22:42:19 | briantumor | that uses kde.. how would i port that? |
| 22:42:21 | stripwax_ | briantumor it would not be difficult to write one from scratch |
| 22:42:25 | * | roolku gasps - well that was unexpected :( |
| 22:42:33 | | Join BigBambi_ [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 22:42:41 | pixelma | Nico_P: were you referring to FS #8160 (with Lear)? |
| 22:42:55 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-71-125-77-210.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:43:16 | briantumor | so there's a rockbox dev package? |
| 22:43:17 | Nico_P | pixelma: no, FS #8102 |
| 22:43:40 | | Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 22:44:43 | * | amiconn points roolku to apps/recorder/recording.c, line 593ff |
| 22:44:45 | pixelma | ah, ok. But I saw the behaviour described in 8160 too, yesterday - and my impression was the same as hcs's |
| 22:45:00 | bertrik | Nico_P: I can reproduce it now |
| 22:45:18 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:45:59 | bertrik | As far as I can see it happens when skipping backwards with cross-fade enabled, I'll investigate further tomorrow |
| 22:47:00 | | Quit Rondom (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:47:34 | bertrik | Oh it also happens without cross-fade |
| 22:47:45 | Nico_P | skipping backwards can be bad |
| 22:47:52 | Nico_P | (FS #8092) |
| 22:47:53 | * | Bagder is not that negative about a crypto-plugin |
| 22:47:59 | * | preglow neither |
| 22:48:04 | preglow | i think it's a pretty good idea |
| 22:48:13 | Bagder | fine for keeping PINs etc safe |
| 22:48:13 | Nico_P | roolku: nice commit :) I'm touched that you used my version too :p |
| 22:48:30 | * | Nico_P agrees... I don't get why the idea is bashed |
| 22:48:45 | | Quit Siku () |
| 22:49:08 | Llorean | I'm just curious what the intent for it is, with multiple strong encryptions for various file types, etc. |
| 22:49:14 | preglow | because some people obviously feel the fact that these devices are daps means we should only play music, but i think that's kind of silly |
| 22:49:42 | Bagder | I could use it to store PINs for cards/entrances etc that I have in my life |
| 22:49:44 | Nico_P | roolku: it looks to me like the callback is simply skipped for some tracks |
| 22:51:03 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 22:51:49 | roolku | Nico_P: no, the callback is executed, but the check for elapsed==0 returns early and never stores the data |
| 22:52:07 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 22:52:24 | Nico_P | roolku: I set a breakpoint on tagtree_unbuffer_event and it looked like some tracks were never touched by it |
| 22:52:34 | | Quit linuxstb (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:52:47 | | Join billenium [0] (n=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:52:50 | Nico_P | roolku: which does seem logical to me, looking at audio_clear_track_entries |
| 22:53:14 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 22:53:16 | amiconn | Bagder: I think there are 2 problems with a password safe on a dap: (1) the cumbersome password input. The "master" password should be stronger than any password protected with it. (2) the passwords might be protected from revealing, but not from losing access (when the dap gets broken/stolen etc) |
| 22:53:21 | Nico_P | but in some cases the elapsed value will still be 0 even now that I improved that |
| 22:53:41 | preglow | amiconn: none of those are showstoppers, if you ask me |
| 22:53:43 | amiconn | That said, it's just a plugin, and there are other plugins which are quite cumbersome (e.g. the text editor) |
| 22:53:43 | Llorean | Bagder: I have a code wallet on my phone that I like, but it's the intent for encrypting various files and stuff that I don't really see. |
| 22:53:46 | Bagder | amiconn: sure, but they're no showstoppers |
| 22:53:51 | preglow | of course i'd never keep them only on the dap |
| 22:53:55 | preglow | as i would never only keep them on a pc |
| 22:54:08 | preglow | and i can think of plenty of nice input methods |
| 22:54:17 | roolku | Nico_P: maybe that is an additional problem |
| 22:54:18 | preglow | you don't have to use a virtual keyboard |
| 22:54:24 | preglow | gestures would be fine |
| 22:54:27 | Bagder | besides, nobody is forcing anyone to use it |
| 22:54:27 | Llorean | Surely even up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right as a password to getting to your various door codes and such is more secure than a sticky note in your wallet, for someone with very poor memory. :) |
| 22:54:42 | bertrik | use the wheel as a virtual safe dial perhaps, and select to "open" the safe |
| 22:54:46 | amiconn | preglow: You need a long sequence of gestures then... |
| 22:54:55 | Nico_P | roolku: what were you gasping about btw... the red delta? |
| 22:55:01 | preglow | amiconn: you think someone is going to sit with the dap and try to brute force your combination? |
| 22:55:08 | preglow | amiconn: their thumbs would fall off |
| 22:55:12 | amiconn | nope |
| 22:55:23 | Bagder | they'd get the file of to a PC and _then_ brute-force |
| 22:55:30 | amiconn | But the encrypted data is a file, which can be copied, and brute-forced on a pc |
| 22:55:30 | roolku | Nico_P: in my experiment track 6 would call the callback and be rejected at line 683 when track 7 which was only partially buffered would spin up the disk to fully buffer |
| 22:55:35 | preglow | not with an explosive device in the ata connector :D |
| 22:55:52 | preglow | that'd be default |
| 22:56:00 | amiconn | haha |
| 22:56:05 | roolku | Nico_P: yes. the red delta :( must be the overhead from the plugin interface |
| 22:56:11 | preglow | but yes, good point |
| 22:56:12 | preglow | still |
| 22:56:14 | preglow | it's way better than nothing |
| 22:56:16 | | Quit BigBambi (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:56:24 | amiconn | roolku: The plugin api is just +8 bytes (2 function pointers) |
| 22:57:01 | Bagder | and most people that would steal a DAP wouldn't be able to crack an encrypted file, even if it was done with only 5 gestures... |
| 22:57:09 | amiconn | But check that other place which should be an ideal candidate for dir_exists() |
| 22:57:11 | | Quit bertrik ("bye") |
| 22:57:14 | roolku | amiconn: nod |
| 22:57:19 | preglow | but i most certainly don't get the bashing of the idea, the intent and use of such a plugin is clear |
| 22:57:29 | Nico_P | roolku: seen the check_dir func in recording.c amiconn pointed you to? |
| 22:57:49 | roolku | Nico_P: sorry, must have missed that... |
| 22:57:56 | | Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (i=parafin@paraf.in) |
| 22:58:05 | Nico_P | don't apologize ;) |
| 22:58:28 | amiconn | preglow: I won't bash it. It has its drawbacks, but why not... |
| 22:58:50 | preglow | sure it has its drawbacks, but its way better than nothing |
| 22:58:57 | preglow | it'd be my only way of carrying around encrypted information, really |
| 22:58:57 | amiconn | A plugin is just a plugin. No harm done if one doesn't want to use it |
| 22:59:20 | preglow | i'm sure someone will code a retina scanner plugin soon anyway :) |
| 22:59:34 | preglow | or perhaps voice identification |
| 22:59:35 | preglow | that'd rock |
| 22:59:37 | amiconn | Might even be possible on the m:robe... |
| 22:59:47 | Llorean | Voice ID, plus USB-OTG for a thumbprint verifier? |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:23 | amiconn | And preglow's explosive device... |
| 23:01:30 | preglow | haha |
| 23:02:03 | | Nick BigBambi_ is now known as BigBambi (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 23:02:06 | linuxstb | Didn't someone try and write a some kind of crypto plugin in the past? |
| 23:03:04 | amiconn | I think even a strong algorithm wouldn't be too slow on our targets if it's used for reasonable amounts of data |
| 23:03:10 | briantumor | so where should i start if i want to port games for rockbox? |
| 23:03:22 | Nico_P | roolku: the red delta is probably caused by the fact of having the functions plublic (and a plugin doesn't affect binsize)... but IMHO it's still a very positive change |
| 23:03:37 | amiconn | PGP is usable on Amiga |
| 23:04:14 | * | linuxstb searches the IRC logs and finds bger talking about it about 2 years ago... |
| 23:06:49 | briantumor | ? |
| 23:07:31 | | Quit ramon8 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:07:59 | PaulJam | briantumor: can you program in C? |
| 23:08:06 | briantumor | yeah |
| 23:09:28 | briantumor | well.. i've worked with c++ mostly.. but i know c |
| 23:10:52 | Nico_P | roolku: I think I have a proper fix |
| 23:11:02 | PaulJam | i would suggest to start by setting up a dev environment for rockbox, getting the sourcecode and looking at how the other games and plugins work. |
| 23:11:07 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:11:15 | briantumor | ok |
| 23:11:43 | briantumor | debian? |
| 23:13:19 | linuxstb | Anything Unix-like - Linux, Mac OS X, Cygwin... |
| 23:13:28 | briantumor | ok :) |
| 23:14:12 | * | barrywardell points out that we even have encryption already in the pp-mi4 bootloaders - it's used to boot the H10 OF |
| 23:15:15 | Llorean | barrywardell: And the OF takes forever to decrypt on the Sansa at least. |
| 23:15:22 | Llorean | Running a decrypted OF is drastically faster. |
| 23:16:33 | barrywardell | is the cpu boosted? that makes a big difference |
| 23:16:44 | Llorean | No clue |
| 23:17:40 | Llorean | And the firmware is a fairly big file, too. So that doesn't help |
| 23:17:42 | linuxstb | No, I don't think it is. Which also makes me wonder about that IDE0_CONFIG change - we're setting the so-called "> 65MHz bit" in the bootloader now. Was the Nano bootloader tested with that change? |
| 23:17:48 | Llorean | Don't know how intensive the algorithm is. |
| 23:18:24 | Llorean | linuxstb: Look for oblib working with someone else in the logs. |
| 23:18:25 | scorche|w | briantumor: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DocsIndex#For_Developers |
| 23:18:29 | barrywardell | given the sansa bootloader has to decrypt the OF mi4, it can't be that bad |
| 23:18:41 | briantumor | thanks :) |
| 23:20:03 | Llorean | linuxstb: I seem to recall some discussion of the issue, but was doing other things and not involved. |
| 23:20:38 | | Nick dionoea_ is now known as dionoea (n=dionoea@poy.chewa.net) |
| 23:22:00 | roolku | Nico_P: for FS #8201? cool |
| 23:22:17 | Nico_P | roolku: want to test the patch? |
| 23:23:03 | Llorean | linuxstb: I think amiconn is the one who said it should be set when initing device on the nano. I can't remember why though |
| 23:23:04 | Nico_P | roolku: you'll probably know better than me if it fixes the problem |
| 23:24:17 | roolku | Nico_P: will take a bit, I am currently doing a test compile for the check_dir thing amiconn pointed out |
| 23:24:33 | roolku | Nico_P: but, yes please. :) |
| 23:24:42 | linuxstb | Llorean: I'm guessing oblib didn't test the bootloader, as it was broken with amiconn's backlight work (which has just been fixed). But I guess we'll find out when someone tests the latest Nano bootloader... |
| 23:24:46 | Nico_P | roolku: http://pastebin.ca/793060 |
| 23:25:12 | amiconn | Llorean: The OF bootloader being slow doesn't tell much about the algorithm... remember archos boot time with archos loader + OF? |
| 23:25:45 | amiconn | The descramble *can* be made fast, as our rolo code shows... |
| 23:25:57 | Llorean | amiconn: I was judging "Rockbox loading encrypted OF vs decrypted OF" |
| 23:26:18 | Llorean | At least, I think those were the two cases I'm judging on. :) |
| 23:26:25 | linuxstb | I don't think anyone has tried to optimise our mi4 decrypt function either. |
| 23:26:34 | amiconn | ah, ok |
| 23:26:43 | Llorean | amiconn: So, about linuxstb's question. >65mhz is set in the bootloader, is this a bad thing? |
| 23:26:48 | amiconn | But the OF is quite large, I guess |
| 23:27:04 | Llorean | Yeah, large enough that it's not a representative file size for what someone's likely to want to encrypt with a dap. |
| 23:27:10 | amiconn | Llorean: I don't know. I'm not even sure whether this bit is named correctly |
| 23:27:18 | Nico_P | roolku: do you think FS #8196 is related? |
| 23:28:29 | amiconn | A test should tell. That's the nice thing about the ipod bootloaders - there's no big risk in trying somethin gout |
| 23:28:59 | | Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@c210-49-113-143.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 23:29:30 | roolku | Nico_P: it shouldn't really, as this calls tagcache_update_numeric directly and doesn't rely on the callback - but who knows |
| 23:29:53 | Nico_P | roolku: really? where from? |
| 23:30:06 | barrywardell | Llorean: decrypting the H10 bootloader takes just a couple of seconds here. |
| 23:30:42 | Llorean | barrywardell: This is the full OF though, not just a bootloader. |
| 23:30:49 | roolku | Nico_P: onplay.c:962 |
| 23:30:58 | barrywardell | i meant to say full OF |
| 23:31:26 | Llorean | Ah |
| 23:31:53 | Nico_P | roolku: ah yes |
| 23:32:02 | Llorean | The OF in the sansa could be said to be "a few second" but it's long enough to feel annoying to me compared to a decrypted in advance OF |
| 23:32:21 | barrywardell | I think it's the cpu frequency that makes a big difference. As far as I remember, the H10 starts at a high frequency |
| 23:32:55 | | Quit stripwax_ ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 23:33:56 | briantumor | why is there a vmware image and not one for qemu? |
| 23:34:11 | Bagder | briantumor: we're waiting for you to provide one |
| 23:34:19 | briantumor | ^_^ |
| 23:34:30 | | Nick ionvas is now known as ionvas__ (n=ionvas__@217.189.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 23:37:09 | preglow | jmworx: i've got a patch for mem* usage and elimination of some redundant copies now |
| 23:38:21 | | Join thegeek_ [0] (i=thegeek@s220b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 23:38:54 | jhMikeS | preglow: what is the long term error distribution supposed to be from this function |
| 23:39:38 | preglow | jhMikeS: no idea |
| 23:40:05 | | Join petur [0] (n=petur@d51A49A77.access.telenet.be) |
| 23:40:06 | jhMikeS | if I don't differentiate the random, then it's triangular |
| 23:41:17 | | Quit atsea- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:43:42 | | Join johnf1911 [0] (n=johnf@toronto-hs-216-138-194-136.s-ip.magma.ca) |
| 23:44:04 | | Join matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se) |
| 23:44:58 | | Quit zicho (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:45:07 | | Quit matsl (Client Quit) |
| 23:45:14 | johnf1911 | question" last night I upgraded my H120 to a recent release of rockbox, from one dating from 2k5/2k6; I listened to it during the day, things are generally good; however: I used to get 16 hours of run time on a full charge, when I used it for an hour today on my trip home, it reported an estimated time remaining of 6h00; have there been major batter regressions either in recent release, or compared to ancient release? |
| 23:45:40 | preglow | jhMikeS: rockbox should last longer than ever |
| 23:45:42 | preglow | ehh |
| 23:45:45 | johnf1911 | it could be that time estimate is inaccurate / different than it used to be |
| 23:45:46 | preglow | johnf1911: rockbox should last longer than ever |
| 23:45:47 | johnf1911 | irssi what :) |
| 23:45:52 | preglow | johnf1911: the estimate might be off |
| 23:46:02 | | Quit Zagor ("Hello mr Oops") |
| 23:46:05 | * | preglow kicks nick completer |
| 23:46:06 | n1s | johnf1911: that estimate is a notorious lier ;) |
| 23:46:36 | johnf1911 | that is true |
| 23:46:43 | johnf1911 | I will see how long it really lasts |
| 23:48:04 | | Join jmspeex [0] (n=jmspeex@142.163.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 23:48:11 | preglow | johnf1911: you should get more than 16 hours now |
| 23:48:18 | preglow | johnf1911: even i do, and my battery is old and smells bad |
| 23:48:22 | johnf1911 | ok, cool |
| 23:48:28 | johnf1911 | I'll see what my actual experience is |
| 23:48:32 | johnf1911 | and come back if it sucks :) |
| 23:48:42 | johnf1911 | thanks again |
| 23:49:03 | preglow | jmspeex: i've got a patch for mem* usage and elimination of some redundant copies now |
| 23:49:11 | jhMikeS | preglow: :) |
| 23:49:28 | preglow | irssi needs an ai based nick completer |
| 23:49:40 | jhMikeS | if that's supposed to have a triangular ditribution, it doesn't. it's rather gaussian in SVN |
| 23:50:14 | jmspeex | preglow: can you email it to me? |
| 23:50:26 | | Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 23:50:30 | | Join atsea-63 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-0472cfeb7316f37b) |
| 23:50:37 | preglow | jmspeex: can i stuff it on my web site instead? my mail server is shit slow right now |
| 23:50:46 | jmspeex | sure |
| 23:50:59 | linuxstb | Zagor: How are things going? |
| 23:51:10 | linuxstb | (apart from the oopses...) |
| 23:51:51 | | Quit Jon-Kha (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:52:37 | preglow | jmspeex: http://www.pvv.org/~thomj/mem_functions_plus_copy_eliminate.diff |
| 23:52:47 | preglow | jmspeex: tested with speexenc/dec, seems to work fine |
| 23:53:00 | Zagor | linuxstb: not much progress. I should probably commit the basics needed for charging before venturing further into the 64-byte test. |
| 23:54:38 | jmspeex | preglow: most important, does it make a difference in performance? |
| 23:54:47 | scorche|w | Zagor: not to interrupt your work, but when you get the time, can you remove the bright yellow color as an option for nicks in the IRC log script? |
| 23:55:09 | jmspeex | preglow: or code size |
| 23:55:35 | preglow | jmspeex: haven't checked performance, but unless the target mem* sucks badly, it should be faster |
| 23:55:37 | | Quit thegeek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:55:38 | preglow | can check code now |
| 23:56:04 | jmspeex | preglow: It could also be the same speed if the copies are negligible... |
| 23:57:23 | Zagor | scorche|w: the colours are created using a simple algorithm using first/mid/last nick character for rgb values. |
| 23:57:33 | preglow | jmspeex: binary size is smaller on amd64, by as much as 0.5kb for the encoder, 150b or so for the decoder |
| 23:58:08 | roolku | Nico_P: hm, my sim refuses to initialise the database now - what have I broken... |
| 23:58:16 | preglow | jmspeex: some of those copies are framelength size, those'll surely be faster |
| 23:58:22 | Zagor | scorche|w: so I can't fix a specific colour, I/we have to fix the algorithm |
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