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#rockbox log for 2007-11-26

00:00:21stripwax_would be neat if the current value could pop up (like a 'tooltip') on some other part of the screen
00:00:22nanok_maybe one compromise that might help would be to only display the value when the cursor (selector line) is on the entry
00:00:24n1sIMHO it could work to display the current value of a setting right justified at the end of the line IF the text was short enough to not scroll
00:00:32nanok_stripwax_: :)
00:01:30safetydann1s: viewports :)
00:01:35 Quit ctaylorr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:01:59pixelman1s: you can't guarantee that on all screens and too much space between looks weird too (IMO)
00:02:11pixelmascreens + font size
00:02:28nanok_stripwax_: actually trying to reserve a few pixels on the bottom, or something like that for this woul actually sound more douable (the rest would be handled by effectively resizing the screen in which the menu entryes can apear, and scrolling), it wouldn;t be as neat as having them aside each entry, but it might just work decently on any target without a lot of "hardcoding"
00:02:31 Join karashata [0] (n=karashat@
00:02:59Lloreann1s: Why not do like the one patch did, and draw a second line below the setting line that shows the current value, but only do that for the highlighted one?
00:03:36n1spixelma: that's what I mean it would only diplay for lines that do not scroll but I guess that would look weird too...
00:03:51n1sLlorean: yeah, didn't look into that but it sounds nice
00:04:00jhMikeSamiconn: so when else did this happen? I don't think I see it on the table currently other that over the last four commits.
00:04:18pixelman1s: yeah, that would also be confusing
00:04:32Lloreann1s: That way it doesn't really matter how long the setting name is, but at the same time it doesn't halve the number of items you can list by showing it for all of 'em
00:04:53 Part Tavnos
00:05:07n1sLlorean: it also doesn't make it as fast to get a quick overview
00:05:23 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
00:05:44LloreanI think few people care about the values of all the settings
00:05:57LloreanBut you can scroll through a list and "skim" the values a lot quicker than pressing Select on each of them
00:06:02stripwax_Llorean - would that work better (or worse) than just showing the current value at the bottom of the screen?
00:06:12Lloreanstripwax_: I think it'd look a bit nicer
00:06:20 Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]")
00:06:22n1sLlorean: yep, it's indeed an improvement over our current system imo
00:06:27LloreanThe value is immediately below the highlighted line, so your eyes are focused in the right area already
00:06:30 Join darkapostrophe [0] (
00:06:34nanok_Llorean: i agree, the main issue here i think is having to press two bottons to see the current value (like right to enter, left to go back)
00:06:59Lloreannanok_: Honestly, *I* could care less. I know the value of basically every setting I've changed anyway. :)
00:07:04LloreanBut I see how it would be nice.
00:08:04pixelmaI like the tooltip idea, my phone does something like that and it's quite nice
00:08:24 Quit moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:08:38 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@
00:08:55Lloreanpixelma: Maybe if you stop scrolling on the line, *then* it inserts a line below it with the current value?
00:08:59 Join countrymonkey [0] (i=4b05639a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:09:13nanok_it would surely be nice as an option. for instance i use small fonts (similar to the default with rockbox), and on my particular target (e200), i rarely run out of space for menus, so an extra line for the highlighted entry would surely be no problem
00:09:29 Join DrCrow [0] (
00:10:26nanok_maybe someone can do this, and we could have it as a "off by default" option, and see how people get along with it for a while?..
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00:12:44PaulJamI think showing the value directly below the current line would look bad when you scroll thriough a list where not all entrys are settings. so the menu would jump around when you highlight a setting and tehn a submenu.
00:13:20 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:13:25 Quit countrymonkey (Client Quit)
00:13:28LloreanPaulJam: Perhaps an appropriate solution would be to put the Submenus at the top of the list then?
00:13:31LloreanMuch like folders come before files
00:14:28amiconnjhMikeS: *all* commits in the table that have the slightest delta show the effect...
00:14:28PaulJamLlorean: and what about those setting that arent really settings, like "reset backdrop"
00:14:50nanok_or maybe anything which is not a setting can be excluded from this behaviour alltogether (allthough i am not sure how easy that would be currently), or am i missunderstanding the problem?
00:15:10 Quit markun (Remote closed the connection)
00:15:18 Quit DrCrow ("Leaving")
00:15:25LloreanPaulJam: There are very few of those, and they can just go last?
00:15:38Lloreannanok_: His objection is "It wouldn't look good"
00:15:53 Join DrCrow_ [0] (
00:16:18PaulJamLlorean: but this wouldn't really solve the jumping when you scroll from one kind to another.
00:16:21JdGordonwhat are we talking about?
00:16:56nanok_Llorean: i get it, i am not sure if he means it would expand in case of submenus and make a mess, or just that there would be nothing to show, which would make it inconsistent. honestly i would be perfectly ok with the later
00:17:39LloreanPaulJam: Since you still move one entry per 'step' I don't know if it'd be as much a problem as you think it is. The only way to know for sure is to try it
00:17:51nanok_JdGordon: the discussion started by me mentioning having values for settings where possible, inline (without hitting select)
00:18:16PaulJami guess if it would expand even if there is nothing to show it would be alright.
00:18:23 Join markun [0] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
00:18:31LloreanPaulJam: I think that would look even worse.
00:18:32 Quit HellDragon (Client Quit)
00:18:39LloreanPaulJam: Expansion wouldn't affect scrolling, it would just be a visual effect...
00:18:49JdGordonnanok_: ah ok. as long as they arnt done how the set rating one was done... that was horrible
00:19:05amiconnJdGordon: Btw, the table settings code was almost ok, just 3 small quirks which are fixed in svn: (1) you forgot to store the callback, so it didn't work. (2) you used the same bit twice, causing crashes for sound settings. I moved the 2 additional bits one bit up. (3) there was an off-by-one error that caused the first value to be displayed twice if it was the selected one
00:19:44amiconnLlorean: I think a popup would look better than expansion
00:19:51nanok_JdGordon: i have no idea. i understand this is not the first time this is duscussed, and that there have even been some patches which were not acceptable. we are trying (i think) to figure out what would work decently
00:20:08JdGordonamiconn: k, just keeping you on your toes :)
00:20:26DrCrow_ /msg nickserv link DrCrow hardisk
00:20:48 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:20:49Lloreanamiconn: Something like a splash-on-hover?
00:21:01amiconnMy current mobile phone expands the highlighted line (to use a larger font) - that feels rather odd...
00:21:45amiconnLlorean: Yes, but "connected" to the selector, i.e. in the next line (or previous if there is no next line on screen)
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00:22:02nanok_amiconn: i think that is somehow mac-borrowed (not to say mac disease :) ) for gui's
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00:23:46 Quit DrCrow (Client Quit)
00:23:53*nanok_ 's current mobile phone wouldn;t be able to spell "expand " on one line
00:24:39nanok_i have to do something about this ; versus ' problem, drives me insane :(
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00:36:01pixelmauhmm... nice new wiki user :/
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01:09:38 Quit PaulJam (".")
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01:13:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:16:48Traveler8having trouble adding plugins, am I supposed to change a makefile, because I don't see any other plugin files in the makefile in the plugin folder
01:17:13scorchewhat do you mean by "adding plugins" ?
01:17:36 Join animeloe_ [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
01:17:38scorcheis this a new plugin that you have made?
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01:18:19safetydanTraveler8: you need to add the name of the plugin source file to apps/plugins/SOURCES
01:20:28Traveler8okay thanks safety dan
01:20:41Traveler8didn't make a plugin yet, just toying with hello.c
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01:40:17Skailanyone here to advise on a compiling problem?
01:40:51krazykityou don't need to ask to ask.
01:41:03jhMikeShrm...the erronous battery readout on 3g is exactly timed with disk disk activity = no readout :\
01:42:17Skailfrom kernel.c : firmware/target/arm/system-arm.h , impossible constraint in 'asm'
01:42:39 Quit Rob2222 ()
01:42:50jhMikeSSkail: which line?
01:43:40jhMikeSdifferent O settings/compiler?
01:43:56Skailthing is, I'm fine with the binary I installed on the device - I just want to write/work on plugins
01:44:20SkailI followed the Gentoo section for setting up cross compiler,
01:44:47Skailbut I'm not to familiar with using gcc in this way
01:45:07jhMikeSthat one always seems to come biting...presumably due to some optimization deal with an inline functions and the "i" constraints
01:45:27 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
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01:45:51 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]")
01:47:39jhMikeStry adding "static inline int set_interrupt_status(int status, int mask) __attribute__((always_inline));"
01:47:53jhMikeSjust above the function definition itself
01:50:24 Part pixelma
01:51:30Skailis there an older/more-likely-to-compile tarball? I'm just wanting to do plugins, if that makes a difference
01:52:22jhMikeSIt generally seems likely to compile as evidenced by the build table, however, some change needs to be found that keep that function from being a problem
01:52:51jhMikeScould be converted to a macro but that's just nasty imo
01:54:26jhMikeSmind trying one other thing?
01:54:56Skailnot at all
01:55:00SkailI really want this to work :)
01:56:10 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:56:16jhMikeSreplace it like this:
01:56:31 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
01:57:13jhMikeSone small change, change "(status & mask)" to "((status) & (mask))"
01:57:20 Join Rob2222 [0] (
01:58:23safetydanSkail: hang on, did you use to get your cross compilers?
01:59:01Skailno... followed the thing under "gentoo"
01:59:01 Join danef [0] (i=4495bf08@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:59:44jhMikeSsafetydan: I still think this should work in any case
02:00:01danefhi to all - is anyone here an expert with RB on the Sansa e200 series?
02:00:03Skailsame result.
02:00:16safetydanSkail: which thing under gentoo? One of the Rockbox wiki pages?
02:00:27jhMikeSonly thing you can do then is change the i's to r's
02:00:33safetydanjhMikeS: don't we have some patches applied to gcc that might make a difference to this?
02:01:02krazykitdanef, it's easier to simply ask your question
02:01:17jhMikeSWe do have patches and this function seems to be problematic with unpatched ones iiuc
02:01:49 Quit danef (Client Quit)
02:02:02safetydanjhMikeS: the gentoo instructions don't mention patching the compilers, so maybe that's the problem here
02:02:13 Quit barrywardell ()
02:02:22jhMikeSif a macro is giving the same result, that's definitely a bug
02:02:59Skailcool, it passes kernel.c now.. errors on LD rockbox.elf
02:03:02 Join danef [0] (i=4495bf08@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:03:03jhMikeSthe "i,i" constraint is always passed as an int constant so I'd say GCC is borked
02:03:39safetydanSkail: if you continue to have compile problems, try using the compilers build by instead
02:04:20danefHi - I am using RB on a sansa e260. When I play photos or mpegs the backlight trips off almost immediately regardless of any backlight setting I use in the setting menu. Any ideas?
02:04:52safetydandanef: I think someone recently reported that as a bug.
02:05:42danefahh ok thanks - i didn't spot it in the bug section - i'll look closer.
02:06:20*Skail is hesitant to patch gcc
02:06:28safetydanSkail: the script takes care of it for you
02:06:48Skailthat's why I'm hesitant
02:06:51 Part ryanakca
02:06:53LloreanSkail: You're not patching your system GCC, just the cross-compiler ones.
02:07:22jhMikeSgcc cross is definitely bugged if it's not handling that function properly
02:07:29jhMikeSor macro
02:08:07Skailthe script doesn't seem to be working anyways
02:08:29safetydanSkail: it should work. What error are you getting?
02:09:07Skailits asking for "File to patch:"
02:09:40Skailnot finding binutils tarballs, probably it
02:10:01safetydanhrm, it should download those for you
02:10:42 Quit guyzmo (Remote closed the connection)
02:10:50Skailaha... seems the download failed..
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02:12:05Traveler8okay, able to compile/add rocks now. now I gotta really dive into the source :D
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02:12:34Skaillol, that's where I want to be :)
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02:44:25Skailwell.. still doesn't build with the script-made compiler
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02:45:17Seedogm Skail
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02:50:53safetydanSkail: are you compiling the latest source from SVN? Are you sure the compilers are being used (i.e. they're first in the PATH ahead of the gentoo ones you built earlier)?
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02:51:37Skailthey're first in the path, yes
02:51:47Skail<- trying something else..
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02:55:41san|chezhey whats up
02:57:17SkailI got it to build the plugins - that's good enough, at least for now - thanks for all the help, guys
02:59:06 Join homielowe_ [0] (
02:59:38safetydanSkail: you could always try just building the simulator. That will use your normal system compiler. Obviously you wont be able to use the plugins built this way on your target, but at least you can test stuff.
02:59:40san|chezanyone know much about the 3G Ipod problems ?
02:59:55safetydansan|chez: which problems?
03:00:10san|chezit says battery is low recharge
03:00:38san|chezso i tried getting it to recharge and it kept rebooting and saying that without actually charging, then i fnially got it fully charged and rebooted into Rockbox and then it just said battery low and shut off but i charged the battery
03:00:55safetydansan|chez: ah that one. I think someone is looking into it but no idea how far along they are
03:01:04san|chezah ok
03:01:30safetydanjhMikeS: are you the one looking at the 3g battery issue?
03:02:55Skailsafetydan: I have built the sim already :)
03:03:27jhMikeSsafetydan: I'm trying to but don't really know what's up. I have to disable poweroff just to work on stuff. I'll hopefully get a clue somehow. :)
03:04:19safetydanjhMikeS: cool. Was there a recent change that exposed this problem or has it always been there?
03:05:31jhMikeSnoone seems to know where it crept in. if it's not that, it's the various exceptions at startup.
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03:13:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:52:34Hammer89does anyone know if SanDisks new firmware causes issues with Rockbox?
03:57:17 Join thunderfox5 [0] (
03:57:28thunderfox5hi there
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04:06:49advcomp2019Hammer89, no.. it is new hardware inside them
04:07:25Hammer89so I can update the OF on my e200 and reinstall Rockbox with no issues?
04:09:01advcomp2019Hammer89, why do you need to update the OF since it is only for file transfers
04:09:04 Quit Skail ("Concoction recent by Pier.")
04:10:05Hammer89well... batt runtime is still better on the OF from what I can tell... other than that, no reason in particular... do you know what the latest update to the OF changed/added?
04:13:14advcomp2019Hammer89, rockbox do not know what they change in OF and rockbox does not need to know since rockbox does not use any part of the OF in their c code
04:16:02Hammer89I understand that... though I'd imagine they need to keep up on it in case Sandisk decides to release a new bootloader or something
04:16:24Hammer89I was asking more out of curiosity than out of a need for technical advice
04:20:44krazykitHammer89, if it isn't broken, don't fix it ;)
04:21:47 Quit animeloe ("Leaving")
04:22:18Hammer89krazykit: good advice; but does anyone ever really follow it?
04:24:10krazykitif they did, the world would be a happier place.
04:25:02Hammer89nah... it'd be boring :)
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04:30:14thunderfox5hi. maybe you can help me
04:30:21thunderfox5I have an iPod 5G
04:30:21psycho_maniacask already
04:30:31psycho_maniacand the enter button is not a space bar
04:30:38 Join billenium [0] (
04:31:03thunderfox5and Im trying to make some changes on the code, to make the menus easier to use
04:31:26thunderfox5where can I find the source code for the menu captions and the click wheel speed?
04:32:06thunderfox5plus, I did SVN checkout and I'm missing a rockboxlogo.h file
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04:40:16safetydanthunderfox5: the logo file is created when you build
04:41:01safetydanyou probably want to look at the gui code for the menu (under apps/gui) and the wheel driver for the speed (somewhere under firmware/drivers)
04:41:22thunderfox5thanks for that info
04:41:30thunderfox5about that missing file problem
04:41:33thunderfox5this is what i get
04:41:53thunderfox5CC alarm_menu.c
04:41:53thunderfox5In file included from alarm_menu.c:32:
04:41:53thunderfox5recorder/icons.h:30:25: error: rockboxlogo.h: No such file or directory
04:42:21thunderfox5isn't that file supposed to come with the rest of the source?
04:42:52psycho_maniacdid you try the svn up command? i think when your missing a file and you try that it will download the file you are missing.
04:43:13thunderfox5I can try that, but won't that erase any changes I have made to the code?
04:43:46safetydanthunderfox5: no, it will merge them
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04:46:33thunderfox5doesn't work :(
04:46:38thunderfox5say this:
04:46:39thunderfox5Skipped 'svn://'
04:46:40thunderfox5At revision 15806.
04:47:25safetydanthunderfox5: that's because revision 15806 is the latest version available.
04:47:40safetydanMaybe try doing a make clean followed by running configure again
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04:50:01thunderfox5does the SVN run on 64 bit or something?
04:50:20thunderfox5all the binaries on the tools folder had to be recompiled one by one
04:50:40thunderfox5because I got a lot of "can't execute binary file" errors
04:51:07safetydanHrm, have you checked out your source tree as a different user from who you're trying to compile as?
04:51:17thunderfox5I mean
04:51:45thunderfox5I checked out at college using my work login
04:52:00thunderfox5and then downloaded from their server through ssh
04:52:03safetydanit sounds like you have some permissions issues preventing the build from working
04:52:12safetydanare the directories writeable by your user?
04:52:27thunderfox5and I chmod'ed all of them 755
04:52:28safetydancan the build set executable bits?
04:52:43thunderfox5(the binaries I mean)
04:53:41safetydanso did make clean work?
04:53:51 Quit K-Man666 ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]")
04:55:20Nimdaei'm a bit confused about the new usb stack...wasn't the point to make usb work within rockbox? or have we still not gotten that far?
04:55:40safetydanNimdae: haven't got that far yet.
04:55:47Nimdaeah ok
04:56:21thunderfox5I can't build the zip now
04:56:25thunderfox5oh well
04:56:34safetydanthunderfox5: do you have zip installed?
04:57:15safetydansomething seems very wrong with your working copy and build setup then
04:57:32thunderfox5yup, something strange going on lol
04:57:35thunderfox5I call it a day
04:57:52thunderfox5I'll stir this up a bit tomorrow lol
04:58:02thunderfox5thanks for your help :)
04:58:32Nimdaewell, in the meantime, is there a way to make rockbox not make windows think a new device is being plugged in every time i plug in my ipod?
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04:59:45thunderfox5eh safedan
04:59:55thunderfox5one last note
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05:00:06thunderfox5I was right
05:00:19thunderfox5/usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file `scramble.o' is incompatible with i386 output
05:00:19thunderfox5/usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file `iriver.o' is incompatible with i386 output
05:00:19DBUGEnqueued KICK thunderfox5
05:00:19thunderfox5/usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file `mi4.o' is incompatible with i386 output
05:00:19***Alert Mode level 1
05:00:19thunderfox5/usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file `gigabeat.o' is incompatible with i386 output
05:00:21***Alert Mode level 2
05:00:21thunderfox5/usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file `gigabeats.o' is incompatible with i386 output
05:00:23psycho_maniacNimdae: that is a problem? lol i thought it was just my stupid computer.
05:00:24***Alert Mode level 3
05:00:24thunderfox5/usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file `telechips.o' is incompatible with i386 output
05:00:31thunderfox5the SVN has it's files on x64 arch
05:00:38scorchethis is what pastebins are for...
05:00:50safetydanthunderfox5: what files though? There shouldn't be any binary files checked in. The only binaries are ones you've built.
05:00:53Nimdaepsycho_maniac: it's something from the new usb stack, for sure
05:01:09scorchethunderfox5: read the guidelines linked int he topic
05:01:18thunderfox5now I understand
05:01:36thunderfox5must have been the server at college that built these in the first place...
05:01:50thunderfox5thanks, you helped a lot!
05:02:20safetydanthunderfox5: no probs. Though the make clean should have sorted that out for you
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05:03:34thunderfox5I did make clean on the tools directory now and it seems to have worked.
05:03:48Nimdaebtw, one oddity i found in the script that builds the rockbox build checks for the existance of "patch", but doesn't seem to check for anything else, like a compiler
05:04:12safetydanNimdae: when you run configure it checks that the compiler for the architecture is on the path
05:04:34Nimdaei'm talking about
05:04:43Nimdaehad to remember the name of the script
05:04:54thunderfox5oh, when I tried to use the to install the needed files for building
05:04:56safetydanit does check for curl or wget
05:05:07thunderfox5I think that's how it's called
05:05:10Nimdaebut it doesn't check for a compiler
05:05:24 Quit karashata ("I will *SO* make you regret that... Later... *is a lazy dragon*")
05:05:26thunderfox5curl kept giving out these Error 500 warnings
05:05:36Nimdaeit downloads everything, extracts, patches, attempts to build, fails if there is no compiler, then tells you everything was successful and to set your PATH accordingly
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05:05:52thunderfox5I switched ftp:// for http:// and it sorted that out
05:05:57thunderfox5hope it helps anyone.
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05:06:09safetydanNimdae: well now that's a bug that should be fixed
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05:07:10Nimdaei accidentally discovered it because i reinstalled ubuntu, heh
05:07:24Nimdaewhich doesn't install a compiler by default
05:07:42Nimdaei'll jump on flyspray and see if it's reported
05:08:33Nimdae...which seems to be broken
05:08:47Nimdaecan i report a bug for the bug tracking tool? >.>
05:09:13Nimdaelooks like a corrupt table or something
05:09:59safetydanah yeah, I think the server's out of disk space at the moment
05:10:25***Alert Mode OFF
05:10:44safetydanhave to wait for Zagor, LinusN, or Bagder to poke the server
05:11:10Nimdaewell, it only failed to log in, did a search and didn't see anything for the script
05:11:14Nimdaei'll report it tomorrow
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05:29:02psycho_maniaccould you do a battery test in rockbox for playing videos?
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05:41:58weswh-i had rockbox installed, and my brother plugged my ipod into his laptop and installed/opened itunes. does anyone know if itunes nowadays is overwriting the bootloader?
05:42:51weswh-because it is back to normal ipod operation now - but ipod update was never run or anything...all of the music is still there, it's saying firmware 3.11 or something, in the Settings > About
05:44:56Traveler8you try rebooting it?
05:45:13Traveler8cause mine booted into original firmware once
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05:49:08Traveler8for statements can be used in plugins, correct?
05:51:02safetydanTraveler8: yes, it's a standard C construct
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05:52:44Traveler8okay thanks, figured I'd check before compiling. process takes a while
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06:30:22Traveler8anyone suggest a resident evil or ghost in the shell rockbox theme/wps?
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07:03:06Traveler8well its time I go for now, adios
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07:49:59amiconnjhMikeS: The attributed doesn't need its own line. You can also put it between the function type & qualifiers and the name:
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07:51:09amiconnstatic inline int __attribute__((always_inline)) set_interrupt_status(int status, int mask) __attribute__((always_inline)) { do_something }
07:51:27amiconnstatic inline int __attribute__((always_inline)) set_interrupt_status(int status, int mask) { do_something }
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08:09:32jhMikeSamiconn: ah, good to know
08:10:29jhMikeSamiconn: do you think it's right for i2c to be initialized so late in init()? the power thread is created and may in fact run before that is done.
08:11:33jhMikeSI'd think that should be done as a primary init since it's almost as fundamental as the kernel
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08:16:32amiconnInit order is rather difficile
08:16:51amiconnIt probably needs checking and thinking on all targets
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08:17:12amiconnWe should also document which inits depend on which other init(s)
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08:18:06jhMikeSthe power thread could be created in a suspended state and allowed to run later too
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08:20:06psycho_maniacare there any patches needed for testing for the gigabeat or ipod 80g video?
08:20:44CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
08:20:44*jhMikeS gets the feeling he's about to bluescreen in a second :\
08:20:46amiconnSuch a suspended init happens on Ondio: MMC detection is enabled later
08:20:49psycho_maniacactually just the ipod atm. my gigabeat is busy atm.
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08:21:50amiconnThe interdependencies being documented would help to avoid effects such as the crashing Video/Nano bootloaders due to backlight needing the krenel (for sleep())
08:23:33jhMikeSlooking at the inits beforehand, it seem odd that i2c needs those (buffer, settings, lcd, remote, font, logo, lang, debug)
08:24:00jhMikeSdon't know what to make of serial
08:24:35jhMikeSthe power management for pp that uses the i2c needs that first for sure
08:26:45SpeedEBikesIs there any guide to debugging issues that only occur on a target system but don't occur in the simulator? After installing a current build my Sansa e200 screen blanks after about 1 second without input while in the movie player or the system/version screen. This doesn't occur in the simulator. I saw something about JTAG connectors in the archives. Do these allow one to run a Sansa under gdb?
08:27:05jhMikeSamiconn: though this batt level oddness on 3g seems to be some separate issue anyway
08:31:50psycho_maniacis the Rockbox Logo Swapper supported?
08:34:29psycho_maniacusually supported stuff is on the wiki correct?
08:34:37LinusNnot necessarily
08:34:54LinusNmeaning, not all things in the wiki are officially supported
08:35:11psycho_maniaclike the LogoSwapper
08:35:40LinusNand it's not clear what "officially supported" means either :-)
08:38:22GodEaterLinusN: to me "officially supported" means it's bad form for us to give up on a problem - whereas "not officially supported" usually appears to mean we wade in to help if we're in a good mood, and then give up when the first thing we thought of doesn't work, replying with "well, it's not supported" :)
08:38:48LinusNwell put
08:41:17LinusNi like this conclusion in th forum: "Since the Sansa E280 has a FAT partition, I presume it is capable of running Linux?"
08:41:35scorcheoh wow...
08:42:09GodEaterwhy didn't we think of that ?
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09:28:41amiconnjhMikeS: That pcf driver fix fixes the G3 battery issue I presume?
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09:33:51jhMikeSamiconn: no but it's a possible problematic situation I spotted when looking into it
09:34:37jhMikeSwhat I really find odd is that it's only the battery level, not the RTC or anything
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09:37:30amiconnMaybe we're using the wrong ADC channel? You said it depends on disk activity...
09:38:54jhMikeSthings seem to change in concert with that, doubt
09:40:31jhMikeSname should explain well enough:"> (yes it has #define NO_LOW_BATTERY_SHUTDOWN, just so I can work :)
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09:42:11jhMikeSafter the initial cycle of disk activity and playing for awhile, the level starts coming back up and appears to operate normally
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09:43:38jhMikeSI guess the filter needs time to settle in part but hmmm
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09:47:30jhMikeSamiconn: btw, I think the problems on pp5002 with these random crashes come from improper use of the control registers. A number of restrictions/steps apply or it will bomb out.
09:49:50amiconnWhich control registers?
09:50:03jhMikeSfor the processors
09:51:07jhMikeShave to fill the pipeline with nop's before sleeping the core. can't concurrently access the status register.
09:51:32pixelmahmm... I also see this effect on my c200 now which I just read in the logs (people with e200): the backlight turns off in a second if you start mpegplayer or jpegviewer, it comes back on if you press a button but turns off again, one time it stayed on a bit longer... (revision 15806 here)
09:52:17*jhMikeS was having a similar experience here on 3g too in all plugins
09:53:03pixelmamaybe these backlight settings commit of yesterday...?
09:53:35pixelmaI'll try a daily
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09:54:58pixelmaseems to be all plugins that should keep the backlight on all the time
09:56:11amiconnAh, probably the 'keep backlight running' plugin stuff needs a different value now
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09:57:43*amiconn didn't think of that
09:58:11peturit's all in the plugin helper file
09:58:34petur(plugin lib)
09:58:55*jhMikeS guesses he managed to hit all the bl-on plugins at once
09:58:56amiconnYes. The 4 '1's in backlight_force_on() need to be changed into '0's
09:59:34peturone change to fix them all :)
09:59:37jhMikeSare there any that don't use that lib yet?
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09:59:51peturI think I converted them all
10:00:04jhMikeSdemystify seems affected
10:00:46amiconnRight now it sets the backlight timeout to 1 second instead of 'always on'
10:01:50pixelmayes, looks like a second
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10:02:30peturwell, 1 used to be always on....
10:02:30jhMikeSfrom demos: fire, fireworks, oscilloscope, plasma, starfield are affected
10:02:49peturthey should all be using the lib, so an easy fix
10:03:33JdGordonflyspray buggered?
10:03:58JdGordon gives a db error
10:04:32peturonly patches seems affected
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10:05:06pixelmaI couldn't even watch the tasklist yesterday evening
10:05:07peturall types also goes bananas
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10:05:32*petur triggers Bagder
10:05:51pixelmamaybe it's related to the build problems with rbclient on
10:06:18*Bagder checks
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10:13:45amiconnjhMikeS: The NO_LOW_BATTERY_SHUTDOWN should probably go into config-ipod3g.h for now
10:14:08jhMikeSyou think it should actually be disabled in SVN?
10:14:51amiconnPerhaps - unless you manage to find the real problem...
10:15:05amiconnOf course it would be a temporary measure
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10:15:15jhMikeSright now I need to figure out if it's just my battery or something. it's not very strong on this player.
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10:16:26jhMikeSgo ahead and say "rtfm" :) but how do you keep rb from connecting USB and doing disk mode on 3g?
10:16:39pixelmait was reported by other people with 3rd gen Ipods, I remember at least one here and one in the forums
10:17:12amiconnjhMikeS: Hold Menu while plugging, as usual
10:17:23jhMikeSthought I tried that...hmmm
10:17:39amiconn(or use a firewire charger, which it will detect as a charger and not go into file mode)
10:17:47amiconnUSB doesan't charge on G3
10:17:58jhMikeSI"m using a firewire connection and Menu doesn't do it
10:25:34*jhMikeS tried every button without success
10:26:40Zagorfw connect doesn't check any buttons
10:27:36Zagorit never did afaict
10:27:53amiconnThere is no separate fw connect
10:27:57ZagorI mean GPIOC_INPUT_VAL & 0x02
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10:28:37Zagorah, that's not g3
10:28:52amiconnThe button check happens in the USB thread
10:29:31*jhMikeS sees them in usb_detect for USB
10:29:36jhMikeSfor 502x
10:30:01ZagorjhMikeS: there's also usb.c:147
10:30:22amiconnjhMikeS: For IPOD_3G_PAD (and IPOD_1G2G_PAD), USBPOWER_BUTTON isn't defined
10:30:26Zagoris g3 pp502x?
10:30:29amiconnYou can fix that in usb.h
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10:30:48jhMikeSI guess HAVE_USB_POWER must not be defined then
10:30:58amiconnJust add those 2 pads to line 41
10:31:00Zagorcorrect, it's not
10:31:29amiconnIt should. Firewire is handled like usb in rockbox
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10:34:51jhMikeSwell, I'll give it a try and see what happens
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10:48:13hasmindmake: //tools/ Command not found <<< compiling the UIsimulaotr
10:48:25hasmindcould someone please help?
10:50:39jhMikeSthis random bug still seems to exist. :\ I do know cache handling is fine and sleeping is fine. I wonder if this batt thing is actually related somehow.
10:50:49GodEaterhasmind: You're using ubuntu ?
10:51:30GodEaterhasmind: sounds like you didn't do the install right then
10:51:39GodEaterhasmind: you're missing the build tools
10:51:43hasmindnot AGAIN
10:51:53hasmindI got them.. I thought
10:51:58hasmindthe elf-gcc ones?
10:52:04GodEaterno "make"
10:52:29GodEaterhasmind: try typing "which make"
10:52:59GodEaterwhat does that return ?
10:53:24GodEaterin that case you *do* have make
10:53:34GodEaterand it appears your checkout of source code hasn't completed properly
10:53:40hasmindit works, until it finds svn thingo
10:53:55LinusNdo you have perl?
10:54:12LinusNthen install it
10:54:42hasmindit worked without perl before
10:55:04LinusNsome of the build scripts use perl
10:55:39LinusNhasmind: when did this stop working?
10:55:59hasmindI mean about half a year ago
10:56:03hasmindit worked fine
10:56:17hasmindnow I used tortoise svn
10:56:23LinusNon this computer with this account?
10:56:50LinusNit might be a problem with CR/LF
10:56:57LinusNbash is sensitive
10:57:25LinusNtry to check out svn using cygwin
10:57:58peturwith tortoise svn, you need to configure cygwin to use native crlf style, not unix style
10:58:24hasmindwhere do I do that?
10:58:42peturrun cygwin setup again, there's a checkbox on the dialog
10:58:43LinusNbtw, to avoid problems, you should install all the packages listed in
10:58:53Zagorwill a turned-off ipod turn on if you connect usb?
10:59:05LinusNZagor: my g5 does
10:59:32hasmindokay, thanks
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11:00:43hasmindhow do you run cygwin with cr+lf? :S
11:01:26peturrun cygwin setup again, there is a checkbox for DOS line-ending style
11:01:44hasmindso there is
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11:04:14hasmindwhat is my makefile MEANT to look like?
11:04:18*pixelma wonders why no new build round was kicked off by the commit but it already appeared on the frontpage...
11:04:19hasmindexport VERSION=$(shell $(ROOTDIR)/tools/ $(ROOTDIR))
11:04:19hasmind ?
11:05:27hasmindMy ROOTDIR is set to / isn't it meant to be /rockbox/ ?
11:08:30markunLinusN: do you know what comes after the plugin buffer? I think I'm noticing some memory coruption with very large text files.
11:09:03hasmindmy make froze :/
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11:10:53LinusNmarkun: the plugin buffer is located at the very end of ram memory, so it might wrap in to the start of ram again
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11:24:45pixelmaZagor: does that mean, the e200 is not rebooting to the OF on USB plug (from running Rockbox)? Just preparing for possible support questions...
11:25:10Zagoryes, exactly
11:27:22pixelmaah - also thanks for triggering a new build round (my commit wasn't picked up somehow...)
11:27:48Zagor:) bagder is looking at it
11:28:14pixelmanice :)
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11:34:06markunLinusN: the dircache gets disabled sometimes, then shutdown doesn't work (until the timeout kicks in) and after booting again I get "committing database" and dircache still doesn't work. One more reboot and it's all fixed again.
11:34:34markunI'll test some more to see if it can be easily reproduced
11:42:42LinusNis there a reason we don't accept button repeats on the inc/dec of gain etc in the recording screen?
11:43:04peturwe don't?
11:43:31*petur boots h380
11:43:43LinusNwell, we don't accept ACTION_SETTINGS_DECREPEAT
11:43:47peturworks fine here
11:44:22peturah you mean up/down?
11:44:53LinusNi see the problem now
11:45:01peturleft/right repeat fine here (dec/inc), up/down do not
11:45:22LinusNthat's the h300 keymap
11:45:59LinusNthat's not how it should be done imho
11:46:03preglowthe recording screen is a bit weird in many respects
11:46:26pixelmaseems to be the same on X5M5 - the repeat works there too...
11:47:32LinusNyes, the keymap is similar
11:49:27*LinusN fixes
11:54:38LinusNor is it intentional that you can't change the gain by rotating the scrollwheel on the ipod?
11:55:11preglowsounds annoying anyway...
11:55:18LinusN(only 1 step at a time, and you have to release the wheel in between)
11:55:52preglowthe trigger screen also has badly messed up button repeat handling
11:56:07preglowin addition to, for some reason, not using our standard menu system
11:56:56preglowalso, the "stop below" and "start above" options seem to depend on your peak meter scale settings, but not until you start adjusting them
11:57:08preglowso they start out as db, then end up as %
11:58:18LinusNbtw, do we really need to be able to change the peakmeter scale?
11:58:26preglowwell, i love it linear :)
11:58:48preglowbut it's not something i'd say i care much about, i seldom even see the peak meter
11:59:20preglowso it's tempting to say it's a nice option for pruning away
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12:10:46amiconnpreglow: The peakmeter doesn't use the standard menu system because of its live preview
12:10:57amiconns/peakmeter/trigger screen/
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12:49:07Nico_Paliask: hi
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12:56:40aliaskHi there Nico_P
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12:57:19Nico_Paliask: I've unsuccessfully tried to locate a file I sent on my S
12:57:32aliaskI saw, it's a shame...
12:58:14Nico_Pwhat do you think we could do?
12:58:47aliaskWe could try sending it as an mp3 file, and see if that works
12:58:53aliaskIt could be being filtered on the device end
12:58:58alsafDoes anybody know how to access hidden partitions on mp3 players?
12:59:11Nico_Paliask: but mtp-files tells me the file is there
12:59:27aliaskcan you copy it back?
12:59:31Nico_Pit's just not shown in the dir listing
12:59:33Nico_PI think so
12:59:37Nico_Plet me try
13:00:28GodEateralsaf: which mp3 player ?
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13:03:01*pixelma recognises the forum nick...
13:03:27alsafsansa m240
13:03:55Nico_Paliask: yes I get the file back fine throught libmtp
13:04:05alsafI would say the firmware is stored there?
13:04:31pondlifejhMikeS: Could your pcf50605.c fix be the cure for the H3xx (and H1xx?) OF settings corruption?
13:04:54pondlifeNot that I've booted the OF in years...
13:05:01aliaskNico_P: You mentioned that there are subfolders called content etc on the 2nd partition, have you checked inside those folders?
13:05:07Nico_Paliask: yes
13:05:16Nico_PI made the dir listing recursive
13:05:58aliaskBut this doesn't solve our problem unfortunately...
13:06:07aliaskThe file HAS to be on the disk somewhere...
13:07:20GodEateralsaf: how do you know there's a hidden partition ?
13:07:48Nico_Paliask: there is one file that is almost the same size as the one I sent
13:08:14Nico_Phmm yeah actually I think I found the files
13:08:51aliaskAlmost the same
13:08:58aliaskThat's interesting...
13:09:13Nico_Pin /Content/0b00/00, there are files that have the same sizes as the ones mtp-files gives me
13:09:25Nico_Pthat's one the second part
13:09:31aliaskOh great, obfuscated file names...
13:09:48aliaskAnd it splits the file up?
13:09:55Nico_Pyeah, they're called 00, 01 and 02
13:10:09Nico_PI don't think so... the files are exactly the same sizes as what mtp-file reports
13:10:54Nico_Pyeah, and the size of my file... I got confused
13:11:19aliaskOk, well at least the file gets there in one piece. But if we transfer a rockbox.gigabeat, how are we going to ID it?
13:11:49GodEaterDoes the filenaming always start off the same ?
13:12:18Nico_Pweird thing is that both the other files have attr=7 and a .pmc extension, when my file has no extension and attr=32
13:12:19pixelmaGodEater: you're responsible for debussy?
13:12:21GodEateri.e. if you've *just* flashed the firmware to it, and the drive has been formatted, does the first file you copy over subsequently always get the same name ?
13:12:36GodEaterpixelma: I doubt it - never heard of it/him/her
13:13:00pixelmathe build server, though you had something to do with it...
13:13:04GodEaterah no
13:13:06GodEaternot mine
13:13:12GodEatermine's :)
13:13:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:13:32GodEaterwhy, is it broken ?
13:13:33aliaskNico_P: What do you mean attr? As in hidden/directory attr?
13:13:50GodEaterNico_P, aliask: that question above was to you guys btw :)
13:13:57Nico_Paliask: yes. the values are defined in dir_uncached.h
13:14:17pixelmaGodEater: it still needs the so-called multilib patch for the m:robe builds, details were on the mailing list/forums somewhere...
13:14:20Nico_PGodEater: I assume the answer is yes
13:14:34GodEaterNico_P: can you test it and see ?
13:14:42GodEaterpixelma: what does? debussy? or my server ?
13:14:45Nico_Pfrom what I saw it's the case
13:14:48alsafnot sure if I'm on wrong track but there seems to be difference of about 17M in the figures of partition size using fdisk. Assumed the reason for this is a hidden partition
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13:15:09Nico_Paliask: if the rockbox.gigabeat file has a particular header we're good, aren't we?
13:15:14GodEaterNico_P: if that's the case, for install we'd KNOW what the file got called then yes ?
13:15:27pixelmaGodEater: see latest m:robe build in the build table
13:16:38pondlife"Stephen Harker"?
13:17:38aliaskNico_P: Is there some kind of index file which catalogues the files in a readable way?
13:18:21aliaskHrm, i suppose it's probably very difficult to tell because we don't have direct access to the hd from a computer...
13:18:26pondlifeNothing in the IrcNicks for that, or pauken..
13:18:26pixelmaGodEater: yes, and your server didn't take part in the build round so I can't tell if yours needs that patch too :)
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13:19:15GodEaterah - he's the positive internet chap
13:19:38GodEaterpixelma: you're right it didn't - but I've already multi-libbed it
13:19:39pixelmasomehow I thought that GodEater had *something* to do with it, if only get into contact...
13:19:41GodEaterdid it weeks ago
13:19:58GodEaterpixelma: you're right - I do *sort* of look after it - I'd just forgotten. I set it up originally.
13:20:05*GodEater has now logged into it and is fixing
13:20:14pixelmasee :)
13:20:22GodEateryour memory is better than mine :)
13:20:54Nico_Paliask: yeah, I couldn't tell
13:21:15Nico_Paliask: UMS in the bootloader would help a lot :)
13:21:15GodEaterNico_P: plug the drive into an F ? ;)
13:21:16pixelmaGodEater: for all the unimportant things... ;)
13:21:30Nico_PGodEater: would that be possible?
13:21:42GodEaterNico_P: yes - someone did it originally (only into an ipod)
13:21:57GodEateranything with the same drive interface would work
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13:22:25GodEaterI can't remember what other targets you own
13:22:29Nico_Pah then I could try that but I'd like to be sure it's worth it... IMO using a file we upload through MPT is very cumbersome
13:22:40Nico_PGodEater: I only have an S and an F here
13:22:47GodEaterwell the F would do then
13:23:21pixelmaBagder: what's a v200 v2 (in the forums)? ;) Too many numbers I guess...
13:23:29Nico_Pwithout dual boot loading a file has no benefit over injecting code into the BL
13:23:35GodEaterNico_P: my plan of attack would be : a) Do a fresh firmware install, b) upload your file, and then c) plug drive into the F, and take a dump of the drive.
13:25:04GodEaterI'd make sure I got both partitions too - just to be safe
13:25:19aliaskNico_P: The other option would be to create a record inside the nk.bin for rockbox.gigabeat - that way the OF bootloader would load it into memory whereever we told it to. It doesn't even need to be on disk
13:25:38aliask(apart from inside the nk.bin of course)
13:26:01Nico_PZagor: ping
13:26:15GodEateraliask: I assume you don't mean to do that long term ? Just while we're getting started ?
13:26:36*GodEater guesses Nico_P wants Zagor to make USB file transfers work right now please :)
13:26:53Nico_PZagor: I'm a bit confused about the current state of the usb stack... is it capable of shwoing a file listing?
13:27:01ZagorNico_P: no it's not
13:27:11aliaskIt COULD work long term, but I suppose it gets a little messy when you want to upgrade builds.
13:27:31GodEateraliask: that's what I meant :)
13:27:35Nico_PZagor: isn't there something that works at slow speed but not high speed?
13:33:09Nico_Paliask: I think what we need most is dual boot to avoid that horrible recovery mode
13:33:29aliaskI agree
13:35:58Nico_Pwhat do I need to disassemble eboot.bin?
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13:40:04Nico_Paliask: isn't IDA for windows?
13:40:29aliaskYes, but it runs under wine perfectly
13:43:35CtcpVersion from freenode-connect!freenode@freenode/bot/connect
13:43:56markunaliask: copy/paste doesn't work for me in IDA under wine, otherwise it runs quite ok.
13:44:08markunmaybe I just need to update both IDA and wine
13:45:00Nico_Pdo you guys use the freeware version or the evaluation version?
13:45:35aliaskI had a copy which wasn't mine. Need to dig it up again though...
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14:01:31GodEaterdebussy should be mended now
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14:09:31Nico_PGodEater: could you test something on your S?
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14:13:08linuxstbaliask: Have you tried any more to get dual-boot working? I was experimenting a little yesterday, but without success...
14:14:11aliaskNothing at the moment. I'm helping Nico_P try to work out the freezes at the moment
14:14:30 Quit maraz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:14:59Nico_Plinuxstb: did you see I actually found the MTP files? I was stupid enough to be mislead by the names
14:16:59LloreanLinusN: At this point I rather feel there should be an option somewhere to invert the charging logic, rather than having it hard-coded either way
14:17:53LloreanBut either way, my question was on button preference and still stands even if the logic is inverted. :)
14:17:55LinusNsure, fair enough
14:18:26pondlifeThe H340 needs a better button for USB charging - is that what you're referring to?
14:18:33LloreanI guess I may as well ask it here, where people have a myriad of players: Does the "Quick Menu" button on anyone's player actually *do* something that could be considered "annoying" beyond opening the quick menu if held down on other screens on your players?
14:18:34LinusNhmm, i have another idea
14:18:50Lloreanpondlife: Yes, I'd like to make it the "Quick Menu" button across the board for all players, assuming it's not a "bad" button on any of them
14:19:03LinusNwhat if you only could connect when the player is idle?
14:19:15linuxstbNico_P: Yes, I read that.
14:19:15LinusNso if you insert it while playing, it would charge
14:19:21pondlifeWhat about the hold button? That's safer, I'd think...
14:19:23LloreanLinusN: I think I'd prefer the manual option.
14:19:42LloreanLinusN: "Resume playback on startup". Someone turns on their player, tries to plug in, is confused because they don't even have headphones in.
14:20:04ZagorNico_P: sorry, got a long phone call. yes, bulk transfer tests work with 64 byte blocks but not larger. I haven't yet tried adapting usb_storage to use 64-byte blocks only. _maybe_ that will work.
14:20:06LinusNhmmm, perhaps
14:20:19Lloreanpondlife: Personally, I have Hold on often when I plug in USB and would rather it not interfere with it, one way or the other. But that's just me.
14:20:44LinusNhow does it work with the OF? doesn't it allow charging while playing?
14:20:50pondlifeI was just thinking that toggling hold does nothing at all..
14:21:22LloreanLinusN: I think it depends on the player. For example, iPods can be "ejected" by iTunes, and once that's done they'll charge and play
14:22:01pondlifeH300 has an option for charge or connect
14:22:40LinusNcouldn't we solve it by allowing any button?
14:22:49LloreanI like the option idea. It's very explicit, doesn't ever _require_ that a key is held, and leaves the possibility of accidents to a relative minimum.
14:22:56LinusNhold a button while inserting, doesn't matter which one
14:23:43LinusNthen the user gets to decide which button to use
14:24:03LinusNand we don't have to try to find a suitable button
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14:24:08LloreanThat still doesn't solve the problem that a lot of users would prefer the logic inverted by default.
14:24:22LinusNyou could still have that option
14:24:25GodEaterusers? pah, who needs them ?
14:24:28LloreanAh, well then I'm happy with that. :)
14:24:53LinusNand it makes the code simpler
14:24:59LloreanStill, there really aren't many usable buttons, since most cases all our buttons (or nearly all) change something (volume, location, etc) which is why I picked the least-changing in the first place. :)
14:25:03LloreanBut yeah, any-button would be good
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14:25:23LloreanMakes it a lot easier for people to remember which button it is on their player too
14:25:24LinusN"Press any key" :-)
14:25:43ZagorI think asking "Connect or charge" is a good way.
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14:25:54LinusNwith a timeout?
14:26:30linuxstbSo the setting could be "Connect, Charge, Ask" ?
14:26:31Zagorrather if usb is connected at boot, always charge only
14:26:44Zagorlinuxstb: yes
14:26:45LloreanI'd rather if USB is connected at boot, always connect only
14:26:48*linuxstb _always_ wants to connect
14:26:56*LinusN too
14:26:57LloreanThat's what bootloader USB mode is for on some of my players.
14:27:10LloreanBut yes, "Connect, Charge, Ask" sounds good.
14:28:21LinusNi vote for "Connect, Charge, Ask"
14:28:37LinusNas long as the question can be voiced
14:28:55ZagorLlorean, LinusN: why? that breaks for example in-car applications
14:28:55linuxstbWhen my device is off, and I want to connect it to my computer, I want it to connect...
14:28:55linuxstbHence the setting...
14:28:55Zagorotoh some car applications want the device as a disk only, so I guess there is no single good solution
14:28:55Zagorif we have a setting, would there be any point with a timeout?
14:29:04LloreanWith any button being the "perform the other action" button?
14:29:33LinusNno, if there is a setting, the timeout is unnecessary
14:29:35linuxstbI don't think we need buttons to do the opposite. At least, I don't.
14:29:46LloreanZagor: Yes, but if we don't have bootloader USB, then we can just have the user put it in "Charge" rather than "Connect" or "Ask"
14:30:14*JdGordon has suggested using the hold switch to disable usb mode before and still thinks its the best solution
14:30:17LloreanAnd I think we only have bootloader USB on two or three targets right now
14:30:22LloreanJdGordon: It's really, really not.
14:30:47ZagorI think any button holding or switching is too obscure
14:30:48JdGordonI cant see how holding a button down is better
14:30:50LinusNand bootloader usb is not really necessary
14:30:51LloreanMore confusing than having a button or setting is having a switch on your player that completely prevents USB access that you don't know about from the manual
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14:31:08LinusNyou could just as well make the bootloader usb mode button controlled
14:31:17Lloreanlinuxstb: I think buttons to have it Connect rather than Charge or vice versa is nice, since holding a button is quicker than changing the menu item.
14:31:27JdGordonthe splash can say "USB Charging only, switch hold for USB mode" ?
14:31:36LloreanI still like the "Option to set the default behaviour, any button for quick-invert if you want to"
14:31:49LinusNJdGordon: that's a pretty long voice message :-)
14:32:10JdGordonor just usb charging only then
14:32:40Zagorwhy hidden buttons? just ask what the user wants.
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14:33:18linuxstbLlorean: I don't like the button holding to invert - as has been mentioned, we have no free buttons on many targets, so you get messy-looking behaviour
14:33:26ZagorConnect <== + ==> Charge
14:34:02Lloreanlinuxstb: Yes, but if it's *any* button to invert, and holding a button isn't mandatory, it's just a quick alternative, it's not nearly as messy-looking, I think
14:34:18LinusNLlorean: but still kind of hidden
14:34:33linuxstbLlorean: But it _is_ still messy-looking, if you're on a screen where every button does something.
14:34:36LloreanBut if you have the "Connect, Charge, Ask" option, defaulting to Ask, then it's not bad?
14:34:45LloreanThe user gets the question
14:34:52LloreanIf the user doesn't like the question, they can set a default behaviour.
14:35:13LloreanIf the user wants to do the opposite of the default just this once, they just hold down something that isn't "bad" in that screen.
14:35:22*petur wants "Connect, Charge, look at button, Ask"
14:36:04LinusNi'm actually fine with having the "any-button-to-invert" feature as well
14:36:24JdGordonany button wont work
14:36:30LinusNwhy not?
14:36:34JdGordonyou have to be pressing the button before usb goes in
14:36:43peturnot all targets have an "any" button
14:36:54JdGordonwhich means the screen will get it instead of the usb code
14:36:57JdGordonlol petur
14:37:03LinusNJdGordon: of course
14:37:09JdGordonwhich is bad....
14:37:21LinusNthen you pick a button that doesn't do any "damage"
14:37:30LloreanJdGordon: Only if they pick a bad button to hold
14:37:49LloreanThey have to read the manual to know that they can hold _any_ button, and the manual can say "The button will still also do what it normally does"
14:37:54LloreanSo they can pick their button based on screen.
14:38:26LinusNthe point is that they don't *have* to press a button, they can use the "Ask" option instead
14:39:18JdGordonI like the ask-the-user-what-they-want-screen
14:39:18ZagorJdGordon: it already works today. button_status()
14:39:18*linuxstb would prefer to keep it simple and get rid of the invert-action button
14:39:18JdGordonalso, using hold means its the same button for every target
14:39:18linuxstbWhat about targets without hold?
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14:41:13Lloreanlinuxstb: Why should the invert-action button be gotten rid of? It's still far quicker than even a pop-up asking.
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14:42:18JdGordonbecause its nasty
14:42:41LloreanYes, that's a very objective reason right there
14:43:04LloreanIn all seriousness, if it's entirely optional because of the added "Charge, Connect, Ask" menu option, why is it bad?
14:43:05LinusNbtw, it should always start charging, even while displaying the dialog
14:43:11JdGordonyou and your objective reasons....
14:43:47JdGordonthe choise should then be "connect, ask"
14:44:02*JdGordon thought should was correct...
14:44:16LloreanJdGordon: And then I still HAVE to press a button to banish the dialog and get back to listening. "Charge" needs to stay a choice.
14:44:30JdGordonno you dont
14:44:37JdGordonit wouldnt stop playback...
14:44:37LloreanOh, so I wait for the timeout instead?
14:44:46LloreanYes, but I can't skip songs or DO anything
14:45:02JdGordonwell.. at that point an extra 2 presses wont kill you
14:45:20LloreanAren't you the huge fan of "easier"?
14:45:35LloreanWho's now suggesting adding an arbitrary complication just because?
14:45:39LinusNi think "charge, connect, ask" is perfectly sensible and simple
14:45:40GodEaterhe's changed since he signed up with Microsoft ;)
14:46:20LinusNand the button-holding shortcut is nice to have in addition
14:46:48JdGordoni am a fan of easier... but not a fan of hidden random button presses
14:47:13peturadd it to the manual then...
14:47:16LinusNJdGordon: it's not like you have to use it
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14:47:40*JdGordon would like to use that argument on heaps of features which ive had rejected....
14:48:30*Llorean doesn't see what the button press has to do with the "Charge" option anyway...
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14:49:51LinusNin any case, i think we should go with "charge, connect, ask" in any case
14:49:52JdGordonbecause it was suggested getting rid of the hidden button and using the question screen
14:49:56*LinusN repeats himself
14:50:02XavierGrLinusN: any news on #8178?
14:50:14JdGordoncharge is redundant
14:50:20LloreanJdGordon: Charge is not redundant...
14:50:22LinusNXavierGr: my h100 is in france
14:50:33JdGordonthere is no reason to connect the usb cable but not charge
14:50:42XavierGrLinusN: :( How come?
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14:50:56LloreanJdGordon: Yes, that's true, which is why there's no "Neither" option...
14:50:58LinusNXavierGr: my son borrowed it on his ski trip
14:51:36ZagorJdGordon: the "charge" option means "don't display a dialog or screen, or question, or anything. just charge"
14:51:57XavierGrLinus: He will get back though, won't he? :) (I mean I should wait before doing it myself, right?)
14:51:58LinusNjust like when you insert an ordinary charger
14:52:07LloreanZagor: Perfect for people who have their whole collection on their DAP and never use USB anyway.
14:52:20LloreanOr people with a device that doesn't have charger-distinction, like the F40, who use USB in their car
14:55:34LinusNXavierGr: "don't try this at home" :-)
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14:55:54JdGordonon a more happy note... any more thoughts on viewports?
14:57:42linuxstbI'm slowly working on them.
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14:59:39JdGordonstill on paper?
14:59:44JdGordonor actually started some code?
15:00:05linuxstbI've started converting lcd-16bit.c
15:00:19JdGordoncool :)
15:01:04linuxstbJust the scrolling lines left to do...
15:01:24JdGordonhave you decided how to handle them?
15:01:51pixelmaLlorean: not all players have the quick menu (button)... and not all have a hold switch (JdGordon)
15:02:22JdGordonanother reason why the ask screen should be used
15:02:22Lloreanpixelma: Yes, I realized Ondio doesn't, right?
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15:02:36Lloreanpixelma: What do you get when you hold down the button that brings up the normal menu on Ondio?
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15:03:01markunJdGordon: about features being rejected: weren't a lot of them from before we were storing the settings in a file?
15:03:17pixelmaLlorean: you mean if I connect USB then?
15:03:28Lloreanpixelma: No, I meant simply "what happens when you hold down the menu button"?
15:03:31LloreanOr is menu already on a long-press?
15:03:42JdGordonmarkun: probably... I dont really remember them :p
15:03:59pixelmait brings up the menu - it's on a long press of "mode"
15:04:06pixelmashort is "resume"
15:04:09LloreanAh. =/
15:04:13linuxstbJdGordon: More or less. The main issue in my mind is when/how to stop scrolling lines. At the moment, lcd_clear_display() stops all scrolling lines on the entire screen, but with viewports, it will only stop the lines in the current viewport.
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15:04:31*amiconn wonders about the whole connect<->charge discussion :/
15:04:55JdGordonLlorean: wait... you would use the quick screen button to stop connect? so you would have to press another button anyway to go back to the wps?
15:05:30JdGordonlinuxstb: I tihnk lcd_clear_display() should still stop all lines on the screen... a viewport_stop_scroll() should only stop ont he current vp
15:05:43pixelmaLlorean: but in case you wondered, if I hold down "mode" and connect I get into USB power mode (and also the menu but it isn't annoying, IMO)
15:05:48JdGordonlcd_clear_display() should always blank the whole display... not just the viewport
15:06:21JdGordonbecause the name implies that
15:06:27LloreanJdGordon: Please, don't be an idiot and try to connect two of my separate suggestions into one thing you can come up with extra objections to.
15:06:35JdGordonviewport_clear() should clear the selected vp
15:06:47amiconnJdGordon: lcd_clear_display() is a function that needs to be renamed for viewports
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15:07:16JdGordonLlorean: its 1am... and im just trying to work out your argument....
15:07:44JdGordonamiconn: I tihnk that function should stay as is and add a new one for vp's... if for no other reason but to make the change over simpler
15:07:56LloreanJdGordon: My original suggestion was just to fix the targets that had "Charge" on the record button to use the "Quick Menu" button, since that's where it is on *most* of the other targets already
15:08:02amiconnI don't think that's needed
15:08:24JdGordonwhich isnt needed?
15:08:24Lloreanpixelma: I think though that Ondio's current functionality is already *basically* in line with the idea anyway.
15:08:25amiconnWith viewports, everything is a viewport. And those modules which aren't converted yet use the default viewport
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15:08:45amiconnJdGordon: lcd_clear_display() is no longer needed with viewports
15:08:52JdGordonhmm.... I suppose that makes sense
15:09:16amiconnThere should be an lcd_clear_viewport() or something like that
15:09:20pixelmaLlorean: yeah, it's "funny" how the Ondio has so few buttons and a quite convenient keymap and I'm still not satisfied with all of the c200's keymap in some screens for example...
15:09:51XavierGrLinusN: will do! (as in, I won't try it) thanks again
15:09:57JdGordonpixelma: because the ondio has so few buttons you dont really have much options?
15:09:59Lloreanpixelma: When my c200 arrives, I'm going to try to tinker with the c200 keymap.
15:10:14amiconnThe keymap on the iriver lcd remotes is also crap, even though the H1x0 remote has most buttons of all targets+remotes
15:10:21*LinusN is concerned about rockbox being distributed for motorola phones without source code
15:11:04pixelmatrue, maybe it's really a problem of too much choice.
15:11:05LloreanLinusN: We did manage to get source out of him at one point.
15:11:11LinusNwe did?
15:11:12JdGordonthat and the FLAC vulnerability!!! there is going to be heaps bad backlash for rockbox stealing your sms' !!!
15:11:19LloreanLinusN: Yeah, one huge, hideous diff, if I recall
15:11:29preglowurl, please?
15:12:08pixelmaLlorean: hopefully no v2?
15:12:15Lloreanamiconn: I don't remember the H120 LCD remote being that bad
15:12:22Lloreanpixelma: Refurbished from, so very, very unlikely
15:12:37linuxstbpreglow: This isn't that exciting - it's the sim ported to run on a Linux-based Motorola phone.
15:12:49amiconnWhen I try to use the H1x0 remote occasionally, I always press the wrong button first
15:12:57Lloreanpixelma: I want to try to bring it more in line with the e200 map (where applicable), which was brought more in line with "the way Rockbox works"
15:13:29Lloreanamiconn: I think the h100 remote was another one of those cases of "If you're used to the OF you'll be more able to use it than otherwise" perhaps
15:13:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:13:53amiconnI never used the remote with the OF
15:13:58pixelmathat change made the 2 keymaps differ more. I don't see the possibility to get them in line again...
15:14:09amiconnBut then I don't use my remotes much in general
15:15:12pixelmaLlorean: because the c200 has no wheel, so you expect the "play" and "submenu" buttons on the cross to serve as up and down
15:15:18Lloreanpixelma: I don't think they need to be "in line", just... buttons keeping the same general use across screens and such, where possible. I don't like the keymap seeming to change from screen to screen like it did on the e200
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15:21:20LinusNgosh, the motorola port includes the lcd-margins patch :-(
15:22:08LinusNand the bmp resize patch
15:22:20LloreanA whole bunch of patches, yes.
15:22:21LinusNand the album art patch
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15:22:41LinusNnot that hard to remove those though
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15:32:07LinusNnow this is too cute:
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15:36:33ZagorLinusN: wow, c00l warez!
15:36:36LloreanClearly it's so hard to find anywhere else
15:38:00preglowdo we need to bundle that bunch of licenses at the end?
15:38:04preglowseems like a horrible waste of paper...
15:40:21LinusNi'm excited about the work done by blackhawk, but i really want his latest patch
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15:43:03linuxstbLinusN: His latest reply to a request for source from someone doesn't sound good - "My HD almost full, no space for original rockbox source anymore and far away from rockbox code right now."...
15:43:33linuxstbHe's already been told multiple times (by me and other Rockbox people in that forum thread) that he _must_ share his source.
15:43:48LinusNlooks like most of his changes are all those blingbling patches
15:44:45LinusNi have a suspicion that he isn't too keen on sharing because he likes the fame
15:45:01Zagor"no space for original rockbox source anymore" sounds really believable...
15:45:21linuxstbBut the request wasn't even for the original source, it was for _his_ source...
15:45:39LinusNi guess he meant that he couldn't produce a patch
15:46:01LloreanThen zip up the whole source..
15:46:04linuxstbBut I didn't think patches were generally accepted as fulfilling the GPL anyway?
15:46:12LinusNno, not really
15:46:51LinusNwell, if he continues like this, his port will fade away
15:46:59LinusNas we move on
15:47:17LinusNi'd hate that too happen
15:47:39linuxstbDoes anyone here have one of those phones?
15:47:44LinusNi don't
15:48:07linuxstbNor me...
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15:48:50LinusNmy guess is that he will soon lose interest as it becomes increasingly harder to work on it
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15:49:49LinusNif he wants to sync with the current rockbox that is
15:50:22ZagorI think he doesn't want to. He just grabbed the code and runs with it, it looks like to me.
15:50:48LinusNspeaking of current rockbox, i have a deja-vu regarding the refactoring of the playback code
15:51:19LinusNlast time it was refactored it looked so nice and simple in the beginning
15:51:36LinusNthen there came fix after fix to resolve bugs
15:51:38linuxstbI've been thinking the same a little - you mean lots of little "fixes" being committed?
15:52:02*linuxstb is hoping lostlogic and Nico_P are being careful...
15:52:06LinusNand we still have plenty of issues
15:52:22LinusNwith gapless and resuming
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16:09:43preglowyeah, i hate the fact that we now have gapless bugs again
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16:17:25*amiconn thinks that blackhawk should be forced to adhere to the gpl and share his code, or stop distributing his stuff altogether
16:17:40amiconnI don't have a preference for either way
16:17:51amiconnBut a gpl violation is a gpl violation
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16:18:16Bagderyou mean that motorola phone thing?
16:19:23*linuxstb agrees
16:19:49linuxstbI did hassle him a couple of months ago, and he released some source, but he obviously didn't continue...
16:20:08Bagdersvn diff is such a complicated command
16:20:43linuxstbOr even just a zip of his tree...
16:20:46LinusNBagder: as far as i know, he claims to be on a gprs connection, which is expensive for him
16:21:02preglownot exactly our problem
16:21:09Bagderbut he manage to release his binaries
16:21:16Bagderand I bet they're bigger than a diff
16:21:39LinusNwe should approach him again
16:23:47LloreanIf he complains of size, why not tell him that since the license is binding, he could take advantage of that and simply just release the diff and let his users compile since the tools are freely available?
16:24:01LloreanThen he could save money, and comply (or have the wind knocked out of his argument)
16:26:30LinusNi guess he's just an inexperienced developer
16:26:53Bagderinexperienced with open source it seems, yes
16:27:07LinusNnot an excuse, just an explanation
16:27:38Bagderwell, it was an explanation _before_ he was approached
16:29:07LinusNwe need to start *demanding* the source
16:29:31LinusNi mean, we *want* his stuff
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16:29:32linuxstbI think he also got into similar trouble with a previous port he worked on.
16:29:41linuxstbSo it's not as if he doesn't know...
16:30:26LinusNi see
16:30:49Bagderwhat's the url for his hack again?
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16:31:59linuxstbSeems the forums are down (at least for me)...
16:32:33LinusNme too
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16:35:34whizboHello, I would like to get write permissions for the wiki. Who should I talk to?
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16:46:01GodEaterno, me
16:46:16peturor me
16:46:47*petur remembers The Matrix "me, me, me"
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16:49:38*preglow remembers too, and wishes he didn't :/
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16:49:48preglowwhat a couple of crap movies those were
16:50:00GodEaterfirst one was ok
16:50:04GodEaterthe second two were dire
16:50:20preglowsure, first one was completely decent, but like you say
16:50:34preglowthe last two just made me a more bitter person
16:51:08scorche|wso he hit the bitter beverage...
16:52:07*preglow runs away
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17:06:28supis it possible to make rockbox run on a solaris mobile?
17:06:36supwith arm
17:07:15GodEaterpossible: yes
17:07:19GodEatereasy: no
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17:13:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:35:43questerI try to understand the RB keymaps and have a question about the last change. Why was it necessary to introduce INCREPEAT? Couldn't the last field just be changed to BUTTON_LEFT (for DECREPEAT for keymap-x5.c)?
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17:36:32questerSince in the end the two actions do exactly the same. So why the difference on the action level? Or do I miss something?
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17:45:33amiconnVery patient...
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17:48:55Buschelinteresting... you need to set "-qscale 6" in winffmpeg to achieve good fps-performance
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18:04:53 Part whizbo
18:08:22Nico_Plinuxstb: most of the fixes lostlogic and I committed were rather small and did benefit from the separation between buffering and playback. Also the rebuffering issue has a solution that I'm (slowly) working on, that will make the buffering code more flexible
18:08:48Nico_PI think what I'm working on will also make the gapless fix easy
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18:12:05 Quit petur ("work->home")
18:15:38n1sNico_P: we were talking about how to make the midi player a codec a while ago but didn't get very far, we concluded that the metadata parser would figure out what needed to be on the buffer but not what should be responsible for the loading and how to pass that info to the codec, any more thoughts?
18:18:50Nico_Pn1s: not really, no... I suppose maybe the codec could interact with the buffering system directly
18:20:49n1sNico_P: to find out what it needs from the buffer?
18:21:23Nico_Pn1s: to add what it needs to the buffer
18:21:44n1sNico_P: but the codec is not necessarily loaded when the buffering happens
18:22:38Nico_Ptrue... what kind of data are we taling about? intruments?
18:22:39preglowthe only real solution is to have the metadata loader do it
18:22:55preglowi'm sorry to say
18:22:59n1sNico_P: yeah, what's called patches in midi terms
18:23:49n1spreglow: that was the only solution I could come up with too but it leaves the question of "how does the codec find all the stuff on the buffer?"
18:23:49preglowNico_P: xm's are a better example of what might be needed, all the data (both samples and note data) basically has to be decompressed and put in the buffer
18:24:05preglown1s: well, that shouldn't exactly be very hard
18:24:24preglown1s: codec.c would basically just hand it to the codec via the codec api
18:24:25Nico_Pn1s: if it's one handle, it's not too hard indeed
18:24:29preglowa pointer or something
18:24:35Nico_Ppreglow: a handle ID
18:24:47n1spreglow: well I guess that's where my problem is i don't know the MoB way of doing that...
18:25:03preglowwell, whatever, it just points the codec to a struct it knows how to handle
18:25:12n1sNico_P: so could I attach a handfull of structs and arrays to this handle thingy?
18:25:20preglowto something it can use right away to play the file
18:25:26n1sof several megs
18:25:34Nico_Pn1s: if you know how they are laid out, yes
18:26:14n1sNico_P: any places for me to look at so i can figure out how to? :)
18:26:19Nico_Pn1s: maybe use a codec callback instead of handling everything in the codec
18:26:30preglowthe loader part will basically just have to prepare structs that can be used directly to render audio
18:26:51preglowhow these structs look depend on the library in question
18:27:01Nico_Pn1s: in buffering.c, bufopen and bufalloc (look for the ID3 and bitmap cases)
18:27:16preglowthe problem with this is that we'll probably bloat the core a good deal with loaders for all the non-streaming formats :/
18:27:17n1sNico_P: ok, thanks :)
18:27:29n1spreglow: yes indeed...
18:27:49Nico_Pn1s: you'll probably want to just do a bufalloc and then write data to the buffer you'll get
18:28:06preglowbut i don't really know how to fix that...
18:28:09preglowperhaps loader plugins?
18:28:14Nico_Pand in the codec callback, bufgetdata
18:28:25Nico_P(see bufgetid3 in playback.c for that)
18:28:33preglowhmm, metadata plugins in general, where you can choose which to link statically
18:28:35n1sNico_P: i don't understand your codec callback idea...
18:29:29Nico_Pn1s: most things related to codecs that touch the playback engine and data are done in playback.c, in callbacks that are given to the codec via the codec API
18:30:00Nico_Pn1s: in particullar the buffer access
18:30:30Nico_Pexamples are codec_filebuf_callback, codec_advance_buffer_counters, codec_request_buffer_callback...
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18:33:34LloreanAlright, I saw a Sansa m200 at a store today. Isn't this AMS chip a bit on the powerful side for a tiny, black and white, flash player?
18:33:39 Join Bradley [0] (
18:34:19Bradleydoes anyone know if there is a Rockbox utility available for Mac OS 10.4 ?
18:35:02LloreanBradley: Isn't the one on the wiki page for OSX?
18:35:17Bradleyhmm lemme check
18:37:02Bradleyyeah I don't see it anywhere
18:37:08Llorean ?
18:37:35Bradleyhaah genius
18:37:38Bradleysorry I'm a noob
18:37:54Bradleygetting ready to major in Digital Forensics so I'm starting to play around with Hard Drive devices
18:39:53n1sNico_P: alright I have a look, thanks, one more thing though, what should the loader do if it doesn't get enough buffer from the buffer_alloc? will it be called again on next rebuffer if it fails?
18:41:14Nico_Pn1s: yes and no. currently all the loading is done per track in audio_load_track, and if there is no space left in the buffer it will return and the track will be loaded again
18:41:52Nico_Pn1s: if you load things in audio_load_track, you should be OK (look at how the metadata is loaded). Otherwise you'll have to do retries yourself... I'd go for audio_load_track
18:43:06n1sNico_P: but it's ok to fail if there are several megs of buffer left? (as long as it's not enough?)
18:43:34Nico_PIf the track can't be played without these several megs, I'd say it's perfeclty OK, yes
18:44:02n1sno, can't be played unless all the stuff is available (or instruments will be missing etc)
18:44:32Nico_Pyeah, so make audio_load_track return false if the instruments couldn't all be buffered
18:45:12Nico_Pmaybe you'll need special handling for targets with a small memory though
18:46:30amiconnpreglow: I would think midi is the most complex non-streaming format by far
18:48:14amiconnThe various .mod file formats are rather simple, as there are only 2 conditions to be met which MoB is able to handle afaik: They need to be completely loaded, and must not wrap
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18:50:28Nico_Pamiconn: I confirm MoB handles these
18:50:30preglowamiconn: i think they're about equivalent
18:51:30preglowwith midi you can potentially reuse instruments between files, though, and that complicates things
18:51:33amiconnpreglow: Eh? .mod doesn't need any interpretation at load time (except for getting metadata)
18:51:38preglowbut you don't need to do that for perfect playback
18:51:43preglowamiconn: i'm talking about xm
18:51:57preglowamiconn: and that needs decompression in both sample data and pattern data
18:51:57amiconnFor midi, you need to parse the whole file and find out which patches must be loaded
18:52:25preglowamiconn: just loading the file as is and handing it to the xm player library is about as unhelpful as you can get
18:52:54preglowit'd need to reparse the whole thing
18:53:04*amiconn usually means Soundtracker/Noisetracker/Protracker/Startrekker when talking about .mod
18:53:22preglowthey're much simpler than .xm/.it
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18:54:14preglowthese file formats should be parsed into decoder library structs at the same time they're loaded from disk
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19:14:48supi like computers
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19:21:30preglowyou can't have used them for very long
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19:29:17supGodEater: can you run rockbox as a program?
19:32:36bertriksup: you mean on a PC?
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19:40:58supi mean, would it be hard to port rockbox to solaris
19:41:00sup: ]
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19:43:21preglowyes, you can
19:43:26preglowby compiling it as a simulator
19:43:31preglowyou'll need sdl, but that's about it
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20:14:45LearHe, seems like bad Vorbis/FLAC files can cause memory corruption on Rockbox...
20:16:05LearSorry, my bad. It can read more than necessary, but not actually corrupt stuf.
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20:23:38foontickhi, guys, anyone have datasheet for SA58700 ? =)
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20:30:56Zagorfoontick: "Because not much information is available it might be a good idea to look at the assembly code of the various firmwares." −−
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20:32:24foontickyeah, i have read it... =(
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20:33:09foontickZagor, but there is dead link to datasheet on that page
20:33:55Zagorfoontick: which link would that be?
20:33:57foonticksry, on this page -
20:34:14foontickto much tabs in browser =)
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20:35:04markunfoontick: the link in here works:
20:35:42Zagormarkun: yeah but it doesn't have any datasheets as far as I can see
20:35:58foontickyeah, just short overview
20:37:27markunZagor: I never found a datasheet for it
20:37:46markunZagor: btw, I bet this isn't his real name :)
20:37:54n1sLear: some floor 0 files will crash Tremor though...
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20:38:08Zagorhehe. linus is working on some wiki user cleanup.
20:38:59Learn1s: Old news... :)
20:39:53n1sLear: yup, and if we keep looking the other way there will be virtually no more floor 0 files around so the problem goes away :)
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20:44:16*Nico_P seems to have a fix for FS #8092 (seeking backwards off the buffer)
20:46:00*Lear cheers!
20:47:55Nico_PI went for flushing the data we have and starting again
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20:50:14amiconnIsn't that something we wanted to get rid of? (not sure)
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20:50:54Nico_PI don't know... it's rather handy
20:51:44Nico_Pwhen you spin the disk, is it that much of a waste to rebuffer a few files you already had?
20:52:05amiconnWhat if the disk is not spinning?
20:52:17LearYou need to fire it up anyway...
20:52:32Nico_Pamiconn: seeking to a nonbuffered part of a file
20:52:33LloreanYou're going for off-buffer data
20:52:35foontickall, bb
20:52:40amiconnIf all data I'm seeking back into is still buffered, I wouldn't
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20:52:53Nico_Pamiconn: then all is good
20:52:57amiconnAh, then you need to spin up of course
20:53:15amiconnMaybe I misunderstood...
20:53:18Nico_Pamiconn: we only flush to create space in the buffer
20:53:49Nico_P..when it's needed to allow seeking to a nonbuffered part of a track
20:53:50amiconnWell, if you rebuffer stuff that was already buffered, the disk needs to spin longer
20:54:22amiconnBut I think that's a bearable tradeoff for less complexity
20:54:28Nico_Pthat's what I thought too
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20:56:13*n1s agrees but also _never_ seeks in any direction...
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21:05:23*amiconn is undecided whether he should use a bresenham-like algorithm or simply 16.16 fixed point maths for arbitrary backlight fading times :\
21:05:50preglowamiconn: i don't think it matters much
21:05:57preglowamiconn: i'd do what is simplest
21:06:48amiconnThe problem with bresenham is that the steps can be both <= 1.0 and >1.0
21:07:08amiconnSo I would need to carry 3 variables around
21:07:15preglowsounds like i'd just use 16.16
21:07:25preglowit's fast anyway
21:07:30amiconnThose variables are reloaded on every interrupt cycle
21:07:57amiconnBtw, I will probably switch to using 256 steps instead of 100, and replace the division with a shift
21:08:16preglowwhich is a perfectly logical switch
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21:47:55Buschelamiconn: updated fs #8075 (5G LCD/YUV speed up). removed the changes as mentioned here yesterday, only kept the changes in yuv-blit.
21:48:19Bagderc200v2 firmware confirmed to be AS3525 as well
21:52:45LloreanBagder: The AS3525 claims to be 250mhz?
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21:53:13Bagderwell, the Ainol U60 claims an AS3525 at 250 MHz
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21:53:29LloreanWell, the AMS "features" page for it claims the max speed is 250mhz, yes.
21:53:36Bagderah ok
21:53:59LloreanIt just seems a little bit overkill for the m200...
21:54:14Bagderyes, but quite possibly they use it slower there
21:55:01LloreanDo you mean simply clocked down, or different speed versions of the SoC?
21:55:22BagderI meant clocked down
21:55:35Bagderbut of course we can't rule out chip variations
21:56:09pixelmaLlorean: do you have a microSDHC?
21:56:11LloreanYeah. I dunno, just seems odd to me, like it'd be quit expensive relative to other things that could do the task. Then again, I don't know what SoCs cost, nor what deal they might have.
21:56:41Lloreanpixelma: Not yet. I've been waiting for a working USB stack and UMS mode so I don't have to also get an adapter
21:56:43amiconnCould be just those chips which failed the full-speed tests
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21:57:07amiconnThat's what I am still thinking is the PP5021 - a PP5022 that fails to run (reliably) at 100MHz
21:57:36LloreanCould also be that in the end it turned out cheaper because of the quantities they buy to make the e200v2, m200v2, c200v2 and whatever else.
21:57:41Bagderthey all have the string "AS3525/27 Demo Player" inside...
21:59:02LloreanDo we know what's in the Sansa View?
21:59:09Bagdera PP variation
21:59:29Bagderpossibly a not previously seen one
21:59:34LloreanAaah, okay
21:59:45LloreanI was going to say, that's the one I'd have expected to have the more powerful CPU
21:59:48pixelmaLlorean: just asking because I still don't know if the HC supports works correctly on the c200... (got no response of one guy in the forums so far, I just assume it was probably his fault but don't know for sure :\ )
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22:00:13BagderLlorean: it most certainly has a special graphics part/chip similar to the ipod 5g
22:00:16Lloreanpixelma: I guessed that was why you're asking. When my c200 shows up, maybe I'll go see if I can find an microSDHC card at Fry's then
22:00:54LloreanBagder: Ah, okay. I was just curious because I saw one in the store, and it had a flashier interface than the e200's original one (dunno if it's changed with the v2)
22:01:33Bagderthe nice part with the view is that it uses mi4 so we at least know the file format ;-)
22:02:19LloreanMaybe we should write a letter to PP thanking them for whatever it does that causes everyone to stick so close to their formats. :)
22:02:22pixelmaLlorean: thanks, will probably get one too one day
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22:03:09amiconnI wonder whether we'll see that mysterious PP5026 somewhere...
22:04:01Bagderthe Sansa View firmware mentions a PP6110
22:04:35Bagderor mentions is perhaps not the right word, "includes the string" is more fitting
22:06:10amiconnThe G5 clock setup tests for PP5020/PP5022/PP5026
22:06:25amiconn(actually it just tests the last digit)
22:10:35amiconnZagor: Btw, the reboot on usb detect is still hit-and-miss
22:12:13preglowamiconn: commit buschel's patch now?
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22:17:21mf0102hello, my wps file is not readable anymore with the latest build
22:17:35mf0102the simulator says:
22:17:36mf0102We open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/wps/TangoBox.wps'
22:17:37mf0102Failed parsing on line 15 : Invalid parameter list for token 2: "No token"
22:17:43Nico_Plostlogic: you might want to have a look at my latest commit
22:17:48mf0102that line is:
22:18:01Lloreanmf0102: Put a | on th end
22:18:15goffa_was that aundree buschman of musepack fame?
22:18:21goffa_15:13 -!- Buschel [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:18:24goffa_15:13 -!- Buschel [] has joined #rockbox
22:18:33preglowgoffa_: indeed it is
22:18:46goffa_haven't seen him in like 10 years or so
22:18:55preglowwell, you see him right now :>
22:19:05mf0102thanks Llorean, that worked :)
22:19:09lifterGuys, please help. At me ipod 5.5 80gb I cannot listen to files .ape a sound brakes - reproduces its jerks.
22:19:11goffa_well.. not that long
22:19:29preglowlifter: what compression profile are they encoded with?
22:19:30lifterGuys, please help. At me ipod 5.5 80gb I cannot listen to files .ape a sound brakes - reproduces its jerks.
22:19:31goffa_i'd say since like 2000
22:19:39preglowlifter: we heard you the first time, don't repeat yourself
22:20:04markunlifter: you will probably be better off converting your ape files to flac or wavpack
22:20:16 Join Buschel_ [0] (
22:20:25Lloreanlifter: ape is a very, very cpu intensive codec. The iPod can't really play it fast enough because it has a slow processor.
22:20:44 Join body [0] (n=asusp5wd@
22:20:56bodyGuys, please help. At me ipod 5.5 80gb I cannot listen to files .ape a sound brakes - reproduces its jerks.
22:21:15markunbody: please stop repeating yourself
22:21:17preglowbody: are you reading what we're saying to you at all?
22:22:10markunpreglow: I guess not
22:22:18lifterI apologize... Has simply started 2 clients
22:22:22linuxstbbody: Read the IRC logs - your question was answered -
22:23:40 Quit body (Client Quit)
22:23:41lifterI simply listen to files, and there it is necessary more widely a strip than mp3
22:23:45goffa_does bring me to a question though.. does the 6g classic have the same hardware as 5.5g? (other than hard drives)
22:23:59Lloreangoffa_: Not even remotely
22:24:12goffa_well that's cool
22:24:20goffa_hopefully it'll play ape decently
22:24:20markunlifter: I don't understand what that means
22:24:40Lloreangoffa_: Rockbox is unlikely to run on it any time soon (ever, if nobody works on it, which nobody's doing right now)
22:24:47Lloreanlifter: FLAC is also lossless.
22:24:49goffa_well this is true
22:25:02*linuxstb can't think of a good reason to use APE
22:25:11lifterI mean cannot listen on ipod files .ape?
22:25:14goffa_laziness :)
22:25:20goffa_don't want to convert to flac
22:25:22Lloreanlinuxstb: You have .27mb too little space to fit that one last FLAC file on your player?
22:25:23goffa_lol :)
22:25:28Lloreanlifter: No.
22:25:43*Lear considers who wrote libdemac...
22:26:16*n1s was pondering the same thing...
22:26:17linuxstbLear: That's why I think that - I've seen how crazy the codec is....
22:26:38LearI see... :)
22:26:41n1slinuxstb: you meant that you don't even use ape yourself like at all?
22:27:10 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
22:27:23markunquite a few devs don't use the features they code
22:27:24linuxstbNo, I never use it. If I acquire any APE files, I just convert to FLAC immediately.
22:27:27*markun points at preglow
22:27:55lifterAt me 5gb it is free
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22:28:00n1smarkun: I know, just writing a decoder from scratch seems a little more than most do :)
22:28:35LearTrue. E.g., I've put some hours into AAC...
22:29:07markunand the hours I put into arabic rendering.. :)
22:29:08linuxstbThat whole "scratch your own itch" thing isn't 100% true...
22:29:57*amiconn now has a backlight fade-in time of 300ms on his mini :)
22:30:15 Quit lifter ("CGI:IRC")
22:30:17LearBut there are some AAC changes that would be good to look into, but I just can't find the motivation for it...
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22:30:39linuxstbLear: Do you know that libfaad is now GPL'd again?
22:30:52amiconnpreglow: You will be also able to select 100ms or 200ms, or even 157ms with a .cfg file ;)
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22:31:55Zagoramiconn: what part of the reboot is hit-and-miss? the usb detection or the actuall reboot?
22:32:03Learlinuxstb: No, I wasn't. Good news though, even if it only would be for some bug fixes.
22:32:08amiconnThe reboot, most of the time
22:32:17Zagorwhich player?
22:32:49amiconnI think it's *not* due to system_reboot() being unreliable, but some thread not signaling ready-for-usb due to a race condition leading to a deadlock sometimes
22:32:52amiconnmini G2
22:33:53Zagorok. I'm pretty sure the e200 problem is system_reboot() though
22:34:10preglowamiconn: haha, thanks for that! :D
22:34:22amiconnZagor: I would think it's the same problem as on the ipods
22:34:38Zagorwhat happens on the ipod when it doesn't reboot?
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22:35:37amiconnIt stays in the USB screen. Most of the time the disk activity icon is lit (but I've seen occasions without that)
22:35:48 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
22:35:53Zagorthat's very different from what happens on e200...
22:36:09amiconnWhat happens there?
22:36:15linuxstbIt sometimes freezes in the menu for me - with the disk activity LED on.
22:36:45Zagorspectacular crash, apparently sometimes with different colours flashing on the screen
22:36:47amiconnThe freeze-in-menu also happens on ipod sometimes, but not as often as the freeze-in-usb-screen
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22:38:03lifterIt is necessary to convert in flack. Stupid ape
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22:39:44amiconnJdGordon: there?
22:39:48linuxstbpreglow: Were you looking at syncing libfaad?
22:40:03LearNico_P: Hm, first indication is that FS #8092 isn't fixed. Will make a full rebuild though.
22:40:30markunlifter: indeed
22:40:33zeape is stupid... it's dead anyway isn't it? why do people bother
22:40:58markunze: because of the slightly better compression I guess
22:41:17linuxstbze: I wouldn't go that far - it's just optimised for maximum compression without any regard for decoding speed.
22:41:50zeimeant dead as in the project... its no longer mantained right?
22:41:50preglowlinuxstb: i'm in the process of doing it
22:41:59preglowlinuxstb: it's synced and ready, i just need to make it work again...
22:42:27linuxstbpreglow: OK, I thought you had mentioned it. I just wanted to make sure Lear knew...
22:43:01preglowsure, and whoever wants to accelerate the process can have a patch whenever they want :>
22:43:05amiconnlinuxstb: Any news on the range decoder?
22:43:19Learlinuxstb: Thanks. Went and downloaded the latest release right away, thought I didn't have any immediate plans on syncing...
22:43:44 Quit lifter (" mIRC 6.14 pIRC team ( )")
22:44:01linuxstbamiconn: No...
22:44:17JdGordonamiconn: sort of... sup?
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22:44:27preglowLear: just lemme know if you want to tweak it, the sync is complete, but i removed some of rockbox' changes to see if they're still needed, and apparently they were
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22:45:02linuxstbpreglow: Are there still lots of warnings in the original code? I seem to remember having to fix a lot when first committing.
22:45:04amiconnJdGordon: Do you think it'd be too hackish to export the unit_strings[] from option_select.c in order to use them in settings_list.c?
22:45:13preglowlinuxstb: new ones, even
22:45:18amiconnThat would allow to generalise some formatters
22:45:41JdGordonsounds fine
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22:46:12JdGordonanything to clean up that callback mess in setting_list.c
22:46:16linuxstbpreglow: Wonderful...
22:46:29amiconnHmm, the _getlang functions could need the unit in their parameter list
22:46:36LearNico_P: FS #8158 is still there at least.
22:46:46amiconnWould also allow for a general unit_getlang_0_is_off()
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22:47:40amiconnEh, I don't need to export the array...
22:47:59amiconnBut passing the unit to the _getlang function would be really useful
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22:56:43Nico_PLear: so is FS #8092 fixed?
22:57:02Nico_Pfrom my tests it was fine
22:57:32LearDon't think so... Seek back a short bit (longer than AUDIO_REBUFFER_GUESS_SIZE though) doesn't seem to trigger a rebuffer...
22:58:19markunamiconn: didn't you look into unifying the lcd-*.c drivers a bit more?
22:58:28 Quit nicktastic ("Leaving")
22:58:36amiconnWhat should be unified there?
22:59:52markunlcd_putsxyofs looks (almost?) the same in some of them for example
23:01:17amiconnRight now it does. There's some optimisation potential that will make them different
23:01:19stripwaxDoes an idle pp502x cop core suck as much juice as a busy cop core? (or, is it possible to disable the cop core completely and if so is there any power saving)
23:02:41jhMikeSstripwax: meaning what? it's idle > 9999/10000 microseconds normally
23:02:54markunamiconn: are you interested to work on that or is it more a hint for someone else?
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23:03:15amiconnI'm somewhat interested, but it's low priority atm
23:03:36LearNico_P: Hm, works in the sim...
23:03:43markunwhat kind of optimisations did you have in mind?
23:04:07Nico_PLear: I'm not sure FS #8158 is related to FS #8092
23:04:13 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:04:15stripwaxjhMikeS - really? what about mpegplayer?
23:04:49*ender` yawns
23:05:00jhMikeSstripwax: it's not idle there since it's decoding and rendering video of course.
23:05:03 Quit desowin ("use linux")
23:05:10LearNico_P: I think it is. I can only reproduce that behavior if I do seek backwards a bit right after resume (which I often do for audio books).
23:05:10 Quit roxfan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:05:21stripwaxjhMikeS - right, does it draw more power?
23:05:24amiconnThings that will (hopefully) speed up font drawing, mostly on coldfire and horizontal-packed greyscale
23:05:38amiconn...and a little bit on all 16 bit colour targets
23:06:10jhMikeSstripwax: Of course when it's actually used. I think the backlight will be the biggest draw by far.
23:06:12stripwaxjhMikeS - or rather, when it isn't being used, do/can we turn it off for a power saving, or is having it powered-on but idling as close as we can get
23:07:20jhMikeSI don't think there's a power switch for it. The CPU idle state is about as close as's not being clocked, so gates should be inactive.
23:07:56 Quit perrikwp ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23:07:57stripwaxjhMikeS cheers. I'm also wondering how the current draw of the cpu at 60mhz compares against cpu+cop at 30mhz
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23:08:49stripwaxjhMikeS - oh - is it possible to set the clock speed of the cop independently of the main cpu?
23:08:50jhMikeSstripwax: I think amiconn measured some of those figures....amiconn??
23:09:34stripwaxok. so if cpu is running at 30MHz, so is cop .. ? Just so I understand your 'not being clocked'
23:09:36IvoBurkarthi there, i have a (stupid) question: is there a specific reason that the slow clock speed is 30mhz on my sansa? whenever i listen to audio books (=low bitrate) i have a 0% boost rate
23:09:38preglowit's possible to scale the cop freq, no?
23:09:40jhMikeSwell, core asleep = 0Hz = about as independent as it is
23:09:44IvoBurkartcouldn't one save battery?
23:09:51preglowlike have it run at half the cpu freq
23:09:54amiconnI didn't measure power consumption with any cop activity, as I only have an ammeter hookup on my 1st Gen atm - and that's PP5002
23:10:01jhMikeSpreglow: I see no evidence they run at separate frequencies
23:10:04jhMikeS*can run
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23:10:20preglowIvoBurkart: not everyone listens to audio books at low bitrate, as a matter of fact, i think most people listen to high bitrate mnusic
23:10:31preglowIvoBurkart: anyway, the cpu sleeps if it has nothing to do, so you're not wasting much power
23:10:41amiconnI'm quite sure that CPU+COP full load at 30MHz needs less power than CPU at 60MHz and COP idle
23:10:43 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
23:10:49preglowjhMikeS: the product brief says that cop freq can be sclaed relative to the cpu one
23:11:01amiconnThis is because there are more components driven from the system clock that just CPU and COP
23:11:24IvoBurkartpreglow: if the cpu sleeps, why is there a downstepping at all?
23:11:29amiconnpreglow: Afaik it doesn't. It merely talks about the clock skipping feature
23:11:37jhMikeSpreglow: really? I've not seen any code that seems to do it.
23:11:38LearNico_P: Strange. No full re-buffer at all on target, even if I seek back a fairly large bit.
23:11:41preglowamiconn: clock skipping?
23:12:00jhMikeSclock skipping = keep core from running for a certain time period
23:12:06amiconnIvoBurkart: Re-read what I just said... that applies also to low clock vs. high clock and CPU sleeping
23:12:12preglowjhMikeS: oh well, i guess it doesn't matter, the gui core sleeps just as well at 80mhz as at 30
23:12:17*stripwax wonders how hard it would be to add a second decode thread in parallel on cop
23:12:17Nico_PLear: what makes you tell this? no disk activity?
23:12:44jhMikeSpreglow: the clock scaling uses it to shut the other processor down for a short time while clocks are switched
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23:13:02preglowjhMikeS: riiiight
23:13:31LearNico_P: Only brief disk activity, and more importantly, if I resume at a position 30 sec from the end of the track and then seek back, I only get 30 sec from the resumed track before it skips to the next track.
23:13:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:13:54stripwaxjhMikeS - ah, so you can independently clock / not clock the cop , and you could use that if cop would otherwise be clocked but doing nothing?
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23:14:07Nico_PLear: that's the test I did and it worked fine...
23:14:18pixelmaLear, Nico_P: that sounds similar to fs #8160 then (skipping back)
23:14:29*jhMikeS still has to figure out what is bugging 3g. Something seems to actually be somehow damaging threading at startup and perhaps the battery level code too.
23:14:41IvoBurkartokay thanks for clearing some of the fog :-) another quesion: is it normal that the database entries like 'Artist' and 'Recently listened' are not translated?
23:15:10LearNico_P: Here it works in the sim, but not on my e200.
23:15:13linuxstbNico_P: I don't know why, but I've got dual-boot working on the S...
23:15:18Nico_PLear: I definitely get a rebuffer
23:15:22preglowhmm, i think those are part of the tagnavi.config
23:15:28Nico_Plinuxstb: awesome :)
23:15:31LearNico_P: What target?
23:15:37Nico_PLear: gigabeat
23:15:49Nico_Plinuxstb: a lucky guess?
23:15:51linuxstbNico_P: Do you know if there's a way to shutdown the original firmware, without using the battery switch?
23:16:09preglowIvoBurkart: yeah, it seems those are defined in tagnavi.config, which is a file we parse and use at runtime
23:16:10LearNico_P: Could be flash-specific then...
23:16:13Nico_Plinuxstb: no, it always seems to go into sleeping
23:16:19preglowIvoBurkart: so it's probably not translated,i wonder why no one has fixed that
23:16:20 Quit atsea-104 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:16:23Nico_PLear: yeah, maybe... shouldn't be though
23:17:17Nico_Ppixelma: I closed FS #8160 as a dupe of FS #8092
23:17:35linuxstbNico_P: Do you know if Rockbox can power-off?
23:17:51Nico_Plinuxstb: no idea
23:17:51pixelmaNico_P: ok, I'll try first
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23:18:06IvoBurkartpreglow: this would have to be done at build time right?
23:18:11n1slinuxstb: very nice work indeed :)
23:18:31Nico_Ppixelma: try what?
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23:18:57Nico_Plinuxstb: is the inability to shutdown in the OF a problem with dual boot?
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23:19:14pixelmaNico_P: if your fix for one also fixes the other (i.e. if it's really a duplicate)
23:19:16linuxstbNico_P: It also seems that the original firmware doesn't like being upgraded by libmtp - it seems to detect something is wrong and insists on deleting all media files...
23:19:20 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
23:19:35linuxstbWhich for some reason takes about 30 seconds to delete the zero files I have on it...
23:19:48Nico_Plinuxstb: yeah, it's really annoying
23:19:49linuxstbSome kind of self-destruct ;)
23:20:05Nico_Plinuxstb: btw, what's the md5sum of the original nk.bin you're using?
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23:20:35linuxstbNico_P: fb76b0025cd6bd2cc7512620ebf30b81
23:21:13Nico_Plinuxstb: same as the one I was using... aliask is using another one and I seem to get less or no freezes with his
23:21:16preglowIvoBurkart: the only solution i can see is using some kind of placeholder symbol in tagnavi.config that is listed in the lang files, and hence translated
23:21:24linuxstbNico_P: No power-off means you need to use that fiddly battery switch - which I'm sure isn't going to last for very long...
23:21:50linuxstbNico_P: I think I'll switch to keeping the battery switch off, and powering on/off by inserting the AC charger.
23:21:55preglowIvoBurkart: i wonder if anyone thought about this at all when designing it
23:21:57pixelmaIvoBurkart: no, the tagnavi.config file is a text file, you should be able to translate yourself (and will be used the next time it is loaded, e.g. on boot). You can also set up your own custom tagnavi file, see DataBase wiki page for details
23:22:02Nico_Plinuxstb: not a bad idea
23:22:08Nico_PI should to the same
23:22:19IvoBurkartpreglow: i'll look into that and try to submit a patch but i think this is beyond me. should i submit a feature request for that?
23:22:28preglowIvoBurkart: do as you wish
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23:23:11preglowpixelma: i still think that's bad, i would really like it if a core feature like that was translatable in a way that doesn't require the user do something like that
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23:24:09LearNico_P: Think I found the reason: In my test case, the buffer is only about 30% full... Thus, the full re-buffer check doesn't trigger as it should - if I understood the meaning of buffer_len correctly.
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23:24:24amiconnpreglow: Do you think it's a problem if the fade duration is always displayed in milliseconds?
23:24:25pixelmapreglow: yes, maybe. I'm just saying that there is a way :)
23:24:31amiconn(except 0 == off)
23:24:42Nico_PLear: oh, nice catch
23:25:07Nico_PLear: I'll pastebin a patch
23:25:23IvoBurkartpixelma: thanks, i'll do that in the mean time.
23:25:29IvoBurkartbye and thanks for your time
23:25:29preglowamiconn: i think it would be ugly, but not exactly a problem
23:25:32Lloreanpreglow: Why shouldn't "Artist" "Album" "Genre" etc (all the supported tag names) be their own placeholder symbols?
23:25:40Nico_Plinuxstb: are you planning on committing the dual boot?
23:25:45preglowLlorean: no reason for it, that's one way of doing it
23:25:46linuxstbNico_P, n1s: The hold switch is used to detect which firmware to boot - any opinion on what the default should be?
23:26:12Nico_Plinuxstb: maybe the default could be the OF as our bootloader doesn't do much ATM
23:26:13amiconnThat's how I have it now - and this way I don't need a separate formatter/getlang helper function pair
23:26:17n1slinuxstb: as I don't actually use mine for anything I'd say rockbox for default :)
23:26:18Lloreanpreglow: I mean, the either are, or *should* be translated for the Song Data screen anyway, I'd imagine.
23:26:41LearNico_P: And the reason it worked in the sim, despite the same test files, was that repeat was enabled there.
23:26:54preglowamiconn: it'd be nicer if it always displayed it in seconds, if you ask me
23:27:01Nico_PLear: that condition was dumb, thanks for pointing it out
23:27:26pixelmaLlorean: yes, they are translated for the track info screen (even the <all tracks> stuff that the database uses)
23:27:46LearNico_P: Not sure I can test a patch now though, really need to go to bed... :)
23:28:11Nico_PLear: ok, no worries... I'll make sure I have no regressions and commit
23:28:17pixelmaLlorean: if I'm not too confused
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23:30:33*amiconn builds for h120
23:31:20n1spixelma: i think you are correct and that it is mostly a "noone bothered" problem as with voice in the database...
23:31:33preglowamiconn: lemme know if you need a tester
23:31:46preglowbut i guess you've got all devices covered anyway :)
23:31:47Nico_PLear: the patch is ready... sure you don't want to give it a spin?
23:32:11 Quit weezerle ("...und tschüss!")
23:32:21n1sI think this is one of those nice problems where the amount of developers using the database is quite small and the same for voice and the overlap is probably at or near 0
23:32:50pixelman1s: if I remember correctly rasher started something to localise the database but concentrated on the .talk clips...
23:33:20pixelmanot localising then
23:33:22n1sah, let's hope he commits something then ;)
23:33:36rasher_Solely talk clips
23:33:40n1swell, .talk clips can be in any language
23:34:25rasher_It's in the tracker, and I don't expect to work any more on it - needs someone with more of a clue than me to fix the remaining problem.
23:34:56n1srasher_: did you get any further on your language-xml format conversion?
23:35:20LearNico_P: Na, that'll have to wait, unfortunately...
23:35:55rasher_n1s: ah yes, that. I stranded a bit while rewriting genlang, since I couldn't figure out how to put notes in the result file in a reasonable way
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23:36:07rasher_Notes to the translator, that is
23:36:39n1sah, yes, I remember briefly trying to figure out that script, I gave up :)
23:37:22rasher_Well I was rewriting it from scratch, so didn't have to work all the details out
23:37:32rasher_The current genlang is quite scary yes
23:37:54pixelmaNico_P: first try with your latest fix on c200 (resuming a playlist that I started before though) - I get the WPS, Rockbox immediately freezes, my wps shows 6:21m elapsed time in a 3:44m song... to be fair, I'll start a new playlist and try again)
23:38:53rasher_n1s: I do have a langv2toxml script, a xmlschema dtd a tiny script to validate language-files and a half-finished genlangxml though
23:39:26 Nick rasher_ is now known as rasher (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher)
23:39:40amiconnpreglow: Yup. It's just (most) ipods and the H1x0 only anyway
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23:40:58amiconnHmm. In fact it could work on the H10 too...
23:40:59preglowamiconn: but can't cfg value be in msec, and displayed value be in seconds?
23:41:01 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]")
23:41:23preglowamiconn: i think "0.1, 0.2, 0.5, 1, 2, etc" looks better than "100, 200, 500, 1000, 2000, etc"
23:41:30preglowtoo many redundant zeroes in the last
23:41:42 Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:41:55amiconnThat would require a separate formatter, and voicing would be very difficult
23:42:13preglowvoicing can be in ms
23:42:20n1srasher: if it makes it easier for us to make good lang handling tools (and thus easier to maintain language files) i'm all for it, I don't have much experience with xml though...
23:43:56n1samiconn: we really should fix voicing of units with decimals in the settings, we already have several and they are not voiced correctly, (and I could only come up with two hacky ways of doing it)
23:43:59preglowamiconn: formatters aren't exactly huge
23:44:21rashern1s: Well, it means that we don't have to worry about the parser (not that it's been a huge problem), and yes, it should make it easier to write a new tool. Or do small scripts to automaticly change things in all languages.
23:44:33n1s(centibels is a weird unit if you ask me)
23:44:47jhMikeSwe need to be able to format and voice fractional things in menus and have a standardized way to do it
23:44:58rasherIt also means that we would know when languagefiles got broken
23:45:00preglowindeed, using centi, mili, etc isn't a good workaround
23:45:10n1srasher: then I'm all for it :)
23:45:45preglow5000 ms instead of 5 s is just... ugly
23:46:01rashern1s: Yeah. I don't think there were any huge objections. I should have a look at it again, really.
23:46:19 Quit davina ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04")
23:49:11preglowanyway, how hard can voicing fractional stuff be?
23:49:15pixelmaNico_P: ok, good news. No problems with the new playlist and skipping back to the beginning of the resumed song seems to work correctly now too...
23:49:20preglowwe already do numbers nicely
23:49:32jhMikeSwhy do I get stuck with having to track down these damned oddball crash bugs anyway?
23:49:45Nico_Ppixelma: cool :)
23:49:50preglowjhMikeS: another oddball crash bug?
23:50:04 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
23:50:09jhMikeSsame one on 5002...holding on through all kinds of changes
23:50:27jhMikeScache problems are out since that stuff tests out ok
23:50:28 Quit linuxstb (Nick collision from services.)
23:50:32 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (
23:50:40preglowsounded like a cache issue
23:51:02pixelmapreglow: not all numbers are voiced nicely in all languages (but I know that's rather complicated)
23:51:03jhMikeStest_cache passes with an A+
23:51:05preglowjhMikeS: perhaps another misbehaving instruction? :/
23:51:32preglowpixelma: let's just disregard funny languages like danish...
23:51:40jhMikeSirrelevant to core number built single or dual. seems sensitive to alignment and I really thing the battery issue and this could be related.
23:51:48linuxstbNico_P: (if you want to try it)
23:51:51preglowjhMikeS: battery issue?
23:51:53rasherpreglow: And German too
23:52:02preglowrasher: yeah, but german doesn't have different bases and shit :P
23:52:42jhMikeSpreglow: _if_ things are arranged so it at least runs, the battery level will not be read right yet the RTC and other pcf50605 things will be.
23:52:43Nico_Plinuxstb: I'll sure try it
23:52:50Nico_Pdo you intend to commit?
23:52:51pixelmapreglow: well, for example 21 voiced in Rockbox sounds funny in german too...
23:52:59preglowpixelma: sure, but that's easier to fix
23:53:02rasherpreglow: Well, they have opposite order in sub-100 numbers, and >19 needs a "und" inserted
23:53:15preglowsure, we do the same in norwegian as well
23:53:21preglowit's one of two ways to spell out numbers
23:53:23rasherpreglow: Not quite sure what you mean by different bases in Danish?
23:54:27preglowrasher: that weird stuff with fjerds, tres and all :V
23:54:53Bagderisn't french like that too?
23:54:54rasherpreglow: oh, well when voicing that'd work the same, surely?
23:54:54preglowi think it boils down to being base 20, not base 10
23:55:19preglowBagder: surely we disregard the french :P
23:55:31preglowrasher: would it?
23:55:33preglowrasher: *shrug*
23:55:36XavierGrGreek language is broken with numbers too on rockbox
23:55:39linuxstbNico_P: Yes, I think so. Probably not tonight though, so that will give you (and hopefully aliask) time to test.
23:55:47rasherpreglow: voice(41) = voice(1)+voice(40); voice(75) = voice(5)+voice(70)
23:55:56Nico_Plinuxstb: ok, I'll report back when I test
23:56:00XavierGrmainly because we have different plural and hundreads have their own name
23:56:10rasherpreglow: for Danish. I don't think we do anything terribly funny. The names just come from some archaic system.
23:56:10preglowso we really need lang plugins for this...
23:57:01rasherAnd if you had to be all old-fashioned about it, you'd add +voice("sinds")+voice(20), but no one does that these days
23:57:40preglowwhat if i want a lang file that sounds like a moldy pedant :>
23:57:42 Quit matsl ("Leaving")
23:58:20rasherThen you're fresh out of luck, I think. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure some languages have absolutely crazy rules for pronouncing numbers.
23:58:24pixelmarasher: if I imagine that correctly from your explanation that would be ssimilar to German (with a small tweak for the 1 in 41)
23:58:59rasherYeah, I'm pretty sure German is almost exactly the same. Except we have separate names for 11-19

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