| 00:00:20 | | Quit DM| (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:00:21 | | Join male [0] (n=male@adsl-4-201-83.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:01:59 | | Join frawfraw [0] (n=anon@a91-155-229-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:02:22 | frawfraw | my ipod's battery ran flat and now it won't recharge |
| 00:02:26 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: in queue_wait, execution doesn't seem to get past set_irq_level |
| 00:02:30 | frawfraw | i don't know what to do |
| 00:02:38 | | Join DM| [0] (n=dm@cpe-65-24-163-189.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 00:02:54 | Nico_P | but now I get a prefetch abort |
| 00:03:27 | Nico_P | (I added printf calls before and after the set_irq_level call) |
| 00:04:00 | jhMikeS | set_irq_level? ?? odd |
| 00:04:21 | Nico_P | does the printf call that is right after it have a chance of working? |
| 00:04:28 | PaulJam | frawfraw: have you already tried to insert the charger and then reset the ipod? |
| 00:04:53 | | Part przemhb |
| 00:05:08 | frawfraw | pauljam: i have the charger inserted but nothing happens |
| 00:05:32 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: perhaps find a way to dump an indicator without using printf directly in the routine? |
| 00:05:33 | Llorean | frawfraw: Try leaving it attached to the charger for several hours |
| 00:05:55 | frawfraw | both: wait, do you mean the wall charger or the USB cable? |
| 00:06:17 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: how? |
| 00:06:36 | Llorean | frawfraw: A wall charger is best |
| 00:06:43 | Llorean | USB cable might work. |
| 00:07:15 | jhMikeS | two counters...one before, one after, they should match values. printf the values in the abort handler |
| 00:08:49 | | Part LinusN |
| 00:09:03 | frawfraw | ok, thanks. i guess I will see if some life comes back |
| 00:09:07 | | Join DaCapn [0] (n=dacapn@c-76-105-220-239.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 00:09:48 | | Quit jgarvey ("Leaving") |
| 00:12:23 | * | jhMikeS notices crt0.S sets cpsr and not cpsr_c when changing modes |
| 00:12:37 | | Quit frawfraw () |
| 00:13:16 | jhMikeS | right at new_start |
| 00:13:25 | jhMikeS | newstart...whatever :p |
| 00:14:50 | jhMikeS | and why does it need two instructions to set it (mov r0, #0xd3; msr cpsr, r0)?? |
| 00:15:04 | stripwax | anyone with an ipod nano able to test the pacbox patch with PACBOX_ON_COP enabled? |
| 00:15:32 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: yeah with the counters I think set_irq_level(HIGHEST_IRQ_LEVEL); is what causes the prefetch abort |
| 00:17:13 | * | Llorean learns that Rockbox is apparently a conspiracy. |
| 00:17:25 | Nico_P | Llorean: didn't you know? :p |
| 00:17:26 | jhMikeS | the one after set_irq_level is one less? |
| 00:17:29 | Llorean | I and the other forum mods are in cahoots to keep things secret! |
| 00:18:05 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: yes, well actually I get "-" as display, but I tried incrementing the other counter again after the call and it still ahs the same value |
| 00:19:13 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 00:19:32 | | Quit MethoS-- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:19:53 | jhMikeS | I find the code in crt0.S a bit odd myself. |
| 00:20:47 | | Join Soap [0] (n=Soap@rockbox/staff/soap) |
| 00:20:47 | jhMikeS | I mean there must be some specific reason for doing it that way, no? |
| 00:20:48 | | Nick billeniumZzZ is now known as Bam2550 (n=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 00:21:03 | | Nick Bam2550 is now known as Billenium (n=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 00:21:39 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: that way as opposed to what other way? |
| 00:22:13 | jhMikeS | setting all of cpsr instead of cpsr_c |
| 00:22:51 | | Quit davina (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:24:08 | markun | Llorean: I hope you are not going to waste too much time replying to this post: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14033.msg105070#msg105070 |
| 00:26:50 | nanok | markun: secret, progress sllow? |
| 00:26:59 | nanok | well, i must say.. |
| 00:27:06 | Llorean | markun: I was going to reply, but I've decided against it |
| 00:27:13 | markun | Llorean: good |
| 00:27:14 | Llorean | The e200R thread is a really, REALLY bad example |
| 00:27:18 | | Join psycho_maniac [0] (i=psycho_m@ppp099.hk.centurytel.net) |
| 00:27:23 | Llorean | Hundreds of, frankly, quite stupid suggestions for what we could try |
| 00:27:36 | Llorean | People with nearly no technical knowledge repeating the same thing forty or so other people had already said |
| 00:27:41 | psycho_maniac | anybody have a ipod video with wall charger? |
| 00:28:28 | psycho_maniac | i think i found a bug |
| 00:28:56 | nanok | i remember i had to choose a rockbox-enabled dap, and ipods being out of the question (personal reasons, no matter), i decided for the e200 instead of the c200. i am almost sorry now, one of the main reasons was the sd slot support was not here yet for the c200, it only took a few weeks untill that was fixed.. |
| 00:29:33 | markun | nanok: is the c200 better? |
| 00:29:46 | Llorean | It's smaller |
| 00:29:55 | stripwax | psycho_maniac - I do, but I hope there's more detail to the bug description than that ;-) |
| 00:29:59 | Llorean | With a smaller screen, no wheel (a nicer button interface, I feel), and less storage |
| 00:30:06 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 00:30:22 | markun | Llorean: I'm getting a bit pissed from reading his post again, by I guess that was his goal, to get a discussion going. |
| 00:31:11 | stripwax | When a thread is closed because 'the answer can be found in the manual', does it get eliminiated from search results? |
| 00:31:15 | scorche|w | i sounds like a troll, rather than a discussion |
| 00:31:18 | * | Soap will be in Germany first two weeks of December. If anyone wants something from the USA I can bring it. |
| 00:31:43 | scorche|w | (say me) |
| 00:31:47 | stripwax | ^eliminated |
| 00:32:08 | Llorean | stripwax: Not yet. I'm looking for a way to do that. |
| 00:32:17 | markun | Soap: which cities will you visit? |
| 00:32:19 | stripwax | Llorean - great |
| 00:32:21 | Llorean | I really want a "no-index" flag |
| 00:32:30 | nanok | markun: not better or worse as such. it is just different, mainly, as Llorean pointed out, it is smaller (considerably so), and lighter |
| 00:32:33 | Soap | markun, will be working in Hamburg, should have the weekends off. |
| 00:32:35 | | Quit Psy-Krow ("don't taze me bro!") |
| 00:32:38 | Llorean | But at least telling people to read the manual first helps *reduce* the number of threads they'll start |
| 00:32:50 | psycho_maniac | stripwax: im trying to figure out the bug first. |
| 00:32:57 | stripwax | Llorean - exactly (and then closing the thread, presumably) |
| 00:33:15 | psycho_maniac | i know what it does but it has to be in some setting. when the backlight turns off it will not come back on. |
| 00:33:32 | stripwax | psycho_maniac - is that related to the wall charger at all? |
| 00:33:47 | Llorean | stripwax: We try not to lock threads, just so the person can come back and say "I read this part of the manual, but don't understand what Blah means" |
| 00:33:57 | Llorean | stripwax: Believe it or not, we do try to consider people. :) |
| 00:34:06 | nanok | some people should really read the "ask questions the smart way" guide. i would go as far as saying it should be a requirement for being allowed to use "the internet" :) |
| 00:34:11 | psycho_maniac | i just found out it is not. i thought it was though. |
| 00:34:19 | stripwax | Llorean - true :) I didn't mean "and then closing the thread immediately after saying to look in the manual" :) |
| 00:34:28 | Llorean | stripwax: Alright, just making sure. |
| 00:34:37 | stripwax | actually you're right, it doesn't make sense to lock the thread at all, I suppose |
| 00:34:44 | Llorean | We really could be a lot more totalitarian than we are, but I think we're keeping the balance about where it has to be. |
| 00:35:05 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: any suggestions? |
| 00:35:07 | | Join Psy-Krow [0] (n=krow@rrcs-67-53-12-150.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 00:35:54 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 00:36:03 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: none yet except to try making crt0.S more "normal" :) |
| 00:36:25 | Nico_P | haha I have no idea what "normal" is for that ;) |
| 00:36:38 | n1s | maybe we should raise funds to get jhMikeS an S? ;) |
| 00:36:41 | jhMikeS | use cpsr_c instead of all of cpsr |
| 00:36:59 | * | stripwax rebuilds sliding_puzzle for h120,rec,ipod5g, just to be sure.. |
| 00:37:15 | | Quit n17ikh|Lappy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:37:16 | * | jhMikeS has to get at least 3 new kinds of devices to be on the up 'n' up. :) DM320, TCC-based, and iMX-31 based. |
| 00:37:25 | stripwax | Just noticed that a lot of targets don't actually show the key help in sliding_puzzle so I'll add that at the same time |
| 00:37:53 | Llorean | jhMikeS: Might see if refurbdepot still has any. |
| 00:37:54 | | Quit iamben_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:37:54 | | Join n17ikh|Lappy [0] (n=n17ikh@c-76-23-98-11.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 00:38:32 | jhMikeS | Llorean: that's sells factory refurb stuff? |
| 00:38:35 | psycho_maniac | has there been any changes in the lcd settings lately? |
| 00:38:36 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 00:39:31 | n1s | psycho_maniac: not lcd settings but backlight, yeah |
| 00:39:44 | Llorean | jhMikeS: http://www.refurbdepot.com/productdetails2.cfm?Product_ID=5211 I don't know who does the refurbishing |
| 00:39:52 | Llorean | They also had an S60 last time I looked, but that was the first google result |
| 00:39:55 | psycho_maniac | err thats what i ment to say. |
| 00:40:20 | | Join homielowe [0] (n=chatzill@d207-81-67-190.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 00:40:25 | n1s | psycho_maniac: update to the latest build and reset your settings and then check if it still happens |
| 00:41:30 | psycho_maniac | thats what im going to do. |
| 00:42:43 | toffe82 | jhMikeS: you want a gigabeat S ? |
| 00:43:06 | | Join iamben [0] (n=ben@adsl-76-206-221-64.dsl.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:43:22 | psycho_maniac | i think it has to do with a certin setting because when i load my custom cfg file the backlight will not turn on. well see when i get the newest build. |
| 00:43:30 | | Join darkapostrophe [0] (n=darkapos@217-50-177.231210.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 00:43:34 | jhMikeS | toffe82: perhaps. sort of on the cache crunch atm. whacha got? |
| 00:43:40 | jhMikeS | cash even |
| 00:43:49 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@host-194-46-227-179.dsl-ie.utvinternet.net) |
| 00:44:08 | psycho_maniac | wow thats really cheap for a S and i just bought a F |
| 00:44:18 | | Join Traveler7 [0] (n=traveler@CPE-69-23-137-242.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 00:44:26 | jhMikeS | cache != cash but a cash cache is good to have :p |
| 00:44:33 | toffe82 | :) |
| 00:44:53 | n1s | psycho_maniac: the meaning of the value 0 for the backlight settings changed it now means "off" it used to mean "on" (always) I guessing that is why your settings cause it to not come on |
| 00:45:22 | Traveler7 | hehe, was playing with rockbox today, wouldn't let me run my plugin while playing music |
| 00:45:41 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-71-125-77-210.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:45:43 | Traveler7 | did let me run chopper though, but it caused my music to play in fast forward |
| 00:45:50 | | Join mokkurkalve [0] (n=eivind@084202221248.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 00:45:52 | jhMikeS | I've seen S models going for about $159 on ebay when I checks awhile ago |
| 00:46:06 | toffe82 | jhMikeS: I got a s30 for 60$ from somebody who tell me that it was not working properly, I test it and it seems to work fine, I have to reload the software on it, if you want it |
| 00:46:07 | * | jhMikeS is typing especially badly today |
| 00:46:43 | jhMikeS | toffe82: hmmm...what's it missing as far as the accessories? |
| 00:46:44 | | Quit animeloe ("Leaving") |
| 00:47:27 | toffe82 | video cable, usb and headphones |
| 00:47:33 | psycho_maniac | is that for every backlight setting? |
| 00:48:01 | jhMikeS | toffe82: it's just a non-proprietary USB cable? |
| 00:48:11 | toffe82 | standard usb |
| 00:48:17 | toffe82 | the same as the F |
| 00:48:20 | jhMikeS | what's the video cable type? |
| 00:48:43 | toffe82 | jack 4 point to video and sound |
| 00:49:08 | toffe82 | look the diagram on the wiki, it is a standard cable I think |
| 00:50:36 | n1s | psycho_maniac: there are only two timeouts, one while the charger is connected and one while it's not but as i already said a reset of the settings should fix it, didn't it work? |
| 00:50:37 | jhMikeS | toffe82: check PM |
| 00:50:41 | * | nanok is starting to seriously consider these toshiba toys.. |
| 00:50:59 | nanok | i hate the non standard usb "dock connector" on my sansa :( |
| 00:51:23 | | Quit Dark_Apostrophe (Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:51:23 | | Nick darkapostrophe is now known as Dark_Apostrophe (n=darkapos@217-50-177.231210.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 00:51:35 | n1s | it also has a seperate charger connector so no need to charge over usb :) (I use my h300 charger for it) |
| 00:53:40 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 00:53:42 | psycho_maniac | i just resaved my backlight settings and i think that did the truck |
| 00:53:46 | psycho_maniac | trick* |
| 00:54:20 | mokkurkalve | anybody in the knowing of e200 here now? I have trouble. |
| 00:54:30 | psycho_maniac | dont the S come in black? |
| 00:55:09 | krazykit | mokkurkalve, ask your question and somebody can usually help. no need to ask to ask a question :) |
| 00:55:39 | | Quit n1s () |
| 00:55:54 | nanok | mokkurkalve: just ask |
| 00:57:43 | advcomp2019 | should or should not the e200 reboot when you plug in the usb cable even tho there was a commit that says "Enable reboot on USB-insert for e200, as it works when done c200-style" |
| 00:58:31 | mokkurkalve | I've posted a lengthy explanation in the sansa part on the forum under my older nick Mr_Rabid_Teddybear. Anyway. After using sansapatcher under Linux i couldn't boot either firmware. And after using "Recovery Mode" as wiki prescribes I get "load main image fail". And that's how far I get... |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:00 | nanok | advcomp2019: i think not. no reboot. only change boot order if the cable is plugged while the sansa is off (to have the of first) |
| 01:00:46 | | Quit ender` (" If I had only finished this sentence,") |
| 01:00:50 | | Quit Febs ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.10/2007111504]") |
| 01:01:05 | nanok | advcomp2019: it wouldn't make much sense to reboot it anyway, as the user might want to only charge it (and now, thanks to zagor, that is allready possible) |
| 01:01:19 | | Quit animeloe ("Leaving") |
| 01:02:10 | advcomp2019 | nanok, o ok.. i think i might have misunderstood that commit then |
| 01:02:15 | mokkurkalve | so basically I can still get into the "Recovery Mode" so I guess there's still hope. I think I might need a differnt .mi4 file. For all practical purposes my new player are bricked right now. Hope there's a way out.... |
| 01:02:24 | psycho_maniac | i guess my problem was not really there. i just resaved my backlight settings and they work now. |
| 01:02:39 | | Quit Traveler7 ("Java user signed off") |
| 01:03:54 | nanok | advcomp2019: to be honest, i don;t really get what that commit might be about. but maybe i don;t have a current enough build. how old is that commit? |
| 01:04:14 | nanok | darn ; |
| 01:04:39 | Llorean | advcomp2019: No, it should reboot when the cable is inserted, but it doesn't work reliably yet |
| 01:05:05 | linuxstb_ | mokkurkalve: Have you tried other firmwares? There is a collection here - http://files.zefie.com/PMP/sansa/ |
| 01:05:41 | nanok | Llorean: may i ask what the reason for that is? or is it only intended (and needed) for the upcoming usb storage part? |
| 01:06:10 | Llorean | nanok: Well, Rockbox has no USB. For the moment, it should reboot into the original firmware, and use it's USB. But the reboot doesn't happen reliably |
| 01:06:18 | advcomp2019 | Llorean, thanks because it does not work on my e280r that is why i asked |
| 01:06:55 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: I suggest getting the 01.02.18F firmware from the site linuxstb_ gave a link to and putting the mi4 from there on in recovery mode |
| 01:06:59 | nanok | Llorean: it does have the ability to use usb power for charging while running rb, which is, imho, essential |
| 01:08:38 | mokkurkalve | I will try that, thanks. Report back soon (knocks on wood) |
| 01:08:57 | pixelma | nanok: and you still can use this, hold "select" when inserting the USB cable and you'll get it into charging mode and prevent the reboot into original firmware |
| 01:09:25 | pixelma | this is similar to how it is done on other targets |
| 01:09:39 | Llorean | nanok: And by holding down a button while plugging in the USB cable you can prevent the reboot. Should be "Select" |
| 01:10:14 | pixelma | twice ;) |
| 01:10:22 | advcomp2019 | this is odd.. now it is not charging my sansa in rockbox.. it is slowly draining it |
| 01:10:25 | | Join donutman25 [0] (n=chatzill@65.75.87.48) |
| 01:10:40 | preglow | jhMikeS: what, you're going for a gigabeast s too now? :P |
| 01:10:55 | jhMikeS | indeedy |
| 01:10:56 | preglow | gigabeast, haha, nice typo, thom |
| 01:11:04 | preglow | i think i'll stick with it |
| 01:11:12 | Llorean | I like it. |
| 01:11:13 | nanok | pixelma: Llorean uhm, okay, that's why i was asking for what it's intended earlyer. it does work okay if you press select, it makes sense in this case, agreed |
| 01:11:30 | jhMikeS | even gigabeastier than the F :) |
| 01:11:33 | preglow | Llorean: well, if there's one dap that does qualify for the name, i think it's it |
| 01:11:36 | Llorean | nanok: Once the USB stack is working, Select will probably still prevent connection, but instead of rebooting it'll just use Rockbox's USB mode |
| 01:11:45 | Llorean | preglow: Absolutely |
| 01:11:57 | preglow | jhMikeS: do you know the timings for that fpu thing? |
| 01:12:19 | nanok | Llorean: i see, i think that makes sense also. i personally like being able to "charge only" |
| 01:12:33 | jhMikeS | not a clue yet. I suppose the datasheet is available to look at :) |
| 01:12:45 | * | nanok is wondering if that is really enough to save my ass at work in case of a security audit :-P |
| 01:14:11 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:14:56 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 01:15:18 | * | jhMikeS just needs to get a clue on the pp5002 cache thing for the moment |
| 01:16:30 | | Quit psycho_maniac (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.") |
| 01:16:39 | | Quit animeloe (Client Quit) |
| 01:18:09 | preglow | jhMikeS: any new clues on what's going wrong? |
| 01:18:29 | | Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 01:20:46 | jhMikeS | I know if run with cache disabled, the battery level is ok and no crash happens. Once things are initialized without incident, it all operates correctly. It's something during the init. |
| 01:21:25 | mokkurkalve | Unfortunatly that failed. Get "Load main image fail. Switch to Recovery mode". So. Are next step "Manufacturing Mode"? |
| 01:21:55 | barrywardell | no,not yet |
| 01:22:10 | barrywardell | did you copy over the bootloader too? or just the mi4? |
| 01:22:13 | jhMikeS | but the batt level is still messed up of course if the build happens to run |
| 01:22:45 | mokkurkalve | just the PP5022.mi4 |
| 01:23:53 | mokkurkalve | there's a version.txt there from before, thats all there is. I only copied the .mi4 over |
| 01:24:28 | | Quit Mouser_X (Success) |
| 01:24:35 | barrywardell | try copying over both the bootloader and the mi4 |
| 01:24:43 | barrywardell | make sure it says that it's upgrading |
| 01:24:47 | * | preglow wonders why the ground is shaking |
| 01:25:29 | mokkurkalve | where do I find the bootloader? I used sansapatcher before |
| 01:26:02 | * | linuxstb_ wonders why preglow's ground is shaking |
| 01:26:18 | | Quit Robin0800 (" Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-") |
| 01:26:24 | preglow | wish i knew |
| 01:26:29 | preglow | but it's irrefutable |
| 01:26:43 | jhMikeS | earthquake? |
| 01:27:08 | hcs | passing invisible giant? |
| 01:27:18 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: there should be a .rom file in the zip you downloaded |
| 01:27:46 | mokkurkalve | The wiki stresses to only copy .mi4 to the recovery partition |
| 01:27:47 | preglow | jhMikeS: we don't get too many of those around here |
| 01:27:54 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: you're getting an S! good news :) |
| 01:28:08 | Nico_P | I've changed cpsr to cpsr_c and it didn't change anything |
| 01:28:11 | jhMikeS | preglow: In Michigan we don't either but they do happen every 5-10 years |
| 01:28:49 | preglow | sure, we get small ones |
| 01:28:52 | preglow | stopped now |
| 01:29:01 | nanok | jhMikeS: i initially missread (my internal bash completion running wild) 5-10 minutes |
| 01:29:04 | nanok | :) |
| 01:29:24 | mokkurkalve | Yes. There is also BL_SD_boardSupportSD.rom in the sevenzip. How safe is this? |
| 01:29:33 | jhMikeS | nanok: I'd hope not :) |
| 01:29:40 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: copying the BL_SD_boardsupportedSD.rom over is fine too. |
| 01:30:09 | jhMikeS | preglow: yeah, here too...I noticed it, others didn't. It was on the news last time so it wasn't a hallucination. |
| 01:30:12 | | Join Chronon [0] (i=vircuser@d23-104.uoregon.edu) |
| 01:30:13 | Nico_P | linuxstb_: I've been fiddling with the main binary and the problems seem to be in IRQ handling |
| 01:30:21 | Nico_P | s/IRQ/interrupts/ |
| 01:30:23 | mokkurkalve | I thought that file was for use when you go to "Manufacturing mode". OK |
| 01:30:34 | barrywardell | it can be used for that too |
| 01:30:58 | mokkurkalve | I'll try anything once.... |
| 01:31:26 | jhMikeS | preglow: cool thing was the house rocking back and forth and my desk lamp swaying at about 1HZ :) |
| 01:31:39 | preglow | haha, leet |
| 01:31:41 | preglow | this was more like 10hz |
| 01:31:50 | | Join linuxstb__ [0] (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 01:31:52 | | Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 01:32:12 | | Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]") |
| 01:33:35 | mokkurkalve | Ok. Now my screen shows random noise..... Don't look good |
| 01:33:54 | mokkurkalve | Actually it's patterned. not random |
| 01:33:56 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 01:34:28 | advcomp2019 | with r15801 it will charge in rockbox, but now with r15839 it is not charging. i will still use OF for charging since it still buggy. |
| 01:35:00 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: Random how? |
| 01:35:04 | | Quit animeloe (Client Quit) |
| 01:35:15 | barrywardell | did it say it was updating? |
| 01:36:09 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: I don't know how that function should ever abort in a sense...looking at a disasm might tell where some memory is accessed around that point |
| 01:36:28 | mokkurkalve | i copied over the 2 files. Detached USB. Now I have patterns of white noise on my screen. |
| 01:36:43 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I'll probably try that tomorrow |
| 01:36:43 | jhMikeS | usually I just add −−save-temps to GCCOPTS and force a recompile of the particular file |
| 01:36:58 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: can you get back into recovery mode? |
| 01:37:12 | mokkurkalve | It updates when detatced. did last time. now only noise |
| 01:37:17 | | Quit linuxstb_ (Nick collision from services.) |
| 01:37:44 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: I must take out batttery to close it down, then well see |
| 01:37:51 | nanok | advcomp2019: are you using linux or windows when charging (or what) |
| 01:37:56 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: just hold power for 10 seconds to power off |
| 01:38:19 | nanok | mokkurkalve: or more like 15-20. just be patient ;) |
| 01:38:28 | advcomp2019 | nanok, both |
| 01:38:52 | nanok | i also took my battery out for that reason, only after i found out there is a more ellegant way.. |
| 01:39:19 | | Part toffe82 |
| 01:39:22 | nanok | advcomp2019: ahm, okay. i am not sure how it works in windows, it seems it is a bit strange for now |
| 01:39:22 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 01:39:59 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I did it, but what kind of file should I look for? I don't see anything but the .o files |
| 01:40:02 | nanok | advcomp2019: btw, you have an "r" one, right? (i think there should be no difference in this case though) |
| 01:40:09 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: things should run even if the core isn't put to sleep. m:robe does |
| 01:40:13 | mokkurkalve | Phew! Recovery mode back... what now? |
| 01:40:26 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: ie if core_sleep isn't implemented? |
| 01:40:27 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: an .s file in the firmware directory |
| 01:40:43 | advcomp2019 | nanok, yea i do have an e200r |
| 01:40:44 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: yeah, it should run...but will just burn cycles in sleep_core |
| 01:40:45 | Nico_P | ah yes, found it |
| 01:41:21 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: can you post the contents of version.txt file somewhere (eg. pastebin.ca)? |
| 01:42:12 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 01:43:12 | | Quit animeloe (Client Quit) |
| 01:43:37 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: http://pastebin.ca/799981 |
| 01:44:17 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: http://pastebin.ca/799982 |
| 01:44:24 | | Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 01:44:35 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: there is a printf call and some incrementations added compared to svn |
| 01:44:53 | preglow | jhMikeS: for some weird-ass reason, i'm thinking of making a float path through dsp as well, for targets like gigabeat s, but i don't even know if it'd be worth it |
| 01:45:35 | | Quit obo ("KVIrc 3.2.4 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/") |
| 01:46:00 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 01:46:12 | preglow | jhMikeS: about the only good thing about it i can think of is it'd make some things easier, plus make sure we never have to worry about overflow again |
| 01:47:05 | jhMikeS | preglow: but that has saturation too! :) |
| 01:47:11 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: are you still unable to load the of? |
| 01:47:30 | jhMikeS | it's arm5 with a Q bit afaik |
| 01:47:31 | * | preglow suddenly remembers he should finish his eq plotter |
| 01:47:44 | preglow | that'd definitely be easier with floats... |
| 01:48:31 | jhMikeS | why not look up the timings in the reference material? |
| 01:49:45 | hcs | Has anyone else noticed that SPC tag information seems to become corrupted a few seconds before the end of the track? |
| 01:50:08 | jhMikeS | hcs: yep, the metadata seems to get released before it's finished using it |
| 01:50:27 | | Quit animeloe (Client Quit) |
| 01:50:48 | Nico_P | strange, it should be in a static struct |
| 01:51:11 | Nico_P | hcs: maybe file a bug report |
| 01:51:18 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: Yes. same message "load main image fail". |
| 01:51:29 | preglow | jhMikeS: couldn't find it :/ |
| 01:51:50 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: any comments on that asm bit I posted? |
| 01:51:55 | preglow | god damn, this piece of junk is getting sluggish |
| 01:52:17 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: I take it line 17 there is your counter? |
| 01:53:09 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: weird. maybe try a different firmware version? I use 1.01.11A without any problems. you probably have to update the bootlaoder too |
| 01:53:24 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: proably, yes |
| 01:53:56 | jhMikeS | if not, that's very weird :) but I'm seeing how set_irq_level should be doing anything bad :\ |
| 01:53:59 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: In recovery mode? |
| 01:54:30 | barrywardell | yeah, since you can't get into the of to use normal usb mode |
| 01:55:39 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I should've pasted that .L74 part |
| 01:56:03 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 01:57:10 | | Quit animeloe (Client Quit) |
| 01:57:24 | Nico_P | I think it's bed time now... I can't think anymore |
| 01:57:31 | jhMikeS | looks like the printf call to me |
| 01:58:12 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 01:58:13 | Nico_P | .L74 has printf, the counters, the core var |
| 01:59:22 | jhMikeS | core var shouldn't exist on single core |
| 01:59:46 | hcs | Nico_P, jhMikeS: FS # 8242 for the SPC metadata thing |
| 01:59:46 | | Quit ompaul (Client Quit) |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:06 | * | preglow wonders if the gigabeast s tv out is any good |
| 02:00:13 | preglow | i did it again!! |
| 02:00:21 | jhMikeS | :p |
| 02:00:39 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: Unfortunately only same message as before with 1.01.11A |
| 02:00:46 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: a bit more complete: http://pastebin.ca/800005 |
| 02:00:53 | jhMikeS | I'll certainly attempt to find out if it is somehow |
| 02:00:55 | preglow | well, at least imx31 is well documented |
| 02:00:57 | Nico_P | hcs: thanks |
| 02:01:10 | jhMikeS | I think the TV out is a separate IC though |
| 02:01:33 | jhMikeS | I'm not sure about the docs on that one |
| 02:01:42 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: is printf .L74 or .L74+4? |
| 02:01:42 | preglow | jhMikeS: if it does decent tv out, i'll just have to get one |
| 02:01:46 | | Quit Chronon ("Work-->Home") |
| 02:01:48 | preglow | jhMikeS: bastard's perfect for decoding video too |
| 02:02:05 | advcomp2019 | mokkurkalve, could you try one of the e200R firmwares to see if you changed it to an e200R by accident |
| 02:02:09 | preglow | if not perfect, then at least thorougly excellent |
| 02:02:18 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: should be L74+4 since bx r3 is used |
| 02:02:50 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: it definitely says updating main image when you copy over the mi4? |
| 02:02:55 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 02:02:56 | Nico_P | hmm yeah |
| 02:02:59 | preglow | 8 state pipeline |
| 02:03:11 | jhMikeS | preglow: the DM320 would be too and I'd love to implement libmpeg2 as a hardware decoder but with the same API |
| 02:03:31 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: it only says updating finished |
| 02:03:46 | preglow | jhMikeS: on the dsp, i take it... |
| 02:03:49 | mokkurkalve | when detaching usb |
| 02:04:07 | jhMikeS | I think it's a specialized hardware accelerator for video/jpeg |
| 02:04:30 | | Quit animeloe (Client Quit) |
| 02:04:36 | | Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) |
| 02:04:43 | preglow | jhMikeS: hmm, the vfp doesn't have the best latency instructions ever |
| 02:04:52 | preglow | jhMikeS: even an add is five cycles, but throughput is nice |
| 02:04:53 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: what happens if you copy over a the mi4 and call it firmware.mi4 instead? |
| 02:05:05 | preglow | jhMikeS: as a matter of fact, an add is 9 cycles... |
| 02:05:19 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: I'm not sure if it actually does anything. Or if it just says "updating finished" everytime I detach usb |
| 02:05:24 | jhMikeS | but that's across the entire pipeline? |
| 02:05:27 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 02:05:49 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: just the .mi4 this time or .rom also? |
| 02:05:55 | Nico_P | I'm off to bed now, gnight all |
| 02:06:04 | barrywardell | just the mi4 |
| 02:06:09 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:06:21 | preglow | jhMikeS: i assume, yes, throughput is 1 cycle, so you should be able to do tons of them in parallel |
| 02:06:42 | preglow | jhMikeS: but 9 cycles is a lot if you're dealing with calculations with a lot of inter-dependency |
| 02:08:42 | jhMikeS | whatever can keep throughput going for emac should be similarly doable though, no? |
| 02:08:51 | | Join saratoga [0] (i=98039da7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-3aaea5275919e279) |
| 02:09:04 | | Quit J3TC- (".•«UPP»•.") |
| 02:09:16 | preglow | jhMikeS: depends, but i expect so |
| 02:09:29 | preglow | jhMikeS: armv6 core... i'm going to need one of these bastards |
| 02:09:49 | preglow | jhMikeS: too bad there'll be little incentive to use the fancy stuff for optimizing :) |
| 02:10:27 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: It sait it was reading and updating. But the result remains the same... |
| 02:11:09 | saratoga | how is the S port coming along these days? i saw theres finally a good way to run code on it |
| 02:11:26 | preglow | saratoga: still not running rockbox, but i see a decent amount of devs are getting them now |
| 02:11:33 | XavierGr | damn you all with the gigabeat S discussion now I am itching to buy one :p |
| 02:11:42 | XavierGr | I can't justify to buy yet another DAP! |
| 02:12:00 | Llorean | saratoga: Loading Rockbox and absolutely immediately freezing with the Rockbox splash on screen. |
| 02:12:22 | preglow | XavierGr: i can justify bying that one... |
| 02:12:39 | preglow | anyone have any gigabeat s on hand? |
| 02:12:40 | * | scorche wonders if XavierGr will the 6th person to get an S from him =P |
| 02:12:46 | | Quit hcs ("Leaving.") |
| 02:12:50 | preglow | scorche: you got some? |
| 02:13:06 | preglow | man, i'm starting to sound like i'm buying drugs |
| 02:13:27 | scorche | nay...tons have passed through my hands though (i receive and re-send abroad for a good many rockboxers) |
| 02:13:29 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-71-125-77-210.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:13:36 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: did the of ever work for you? |
| 02:13:59 | preglow | how much are they in general any way? |
| 02:13:59 | XavierGr | I am currently watching some Ses on ebay |
| 02:14:21 | jhMikeS | preglow: faster is better anyway...then really fancy things can be implemented since cycles actually do useful work |
| 02:14:26 | scorche | preglow: all but 1 of them came from refurbdepot |
| 02:14:35 | XavierGr | what type is the gigabeat S HD? |
| 02:14:41 | XavierGr | normal ATA or ZIF? |
| 02:14:42 | preglow | jhMikeS: the vfp looks quite neat, it can even flush denormals to zero |
| 02:14:52 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: before I ran sansapatcher I was in the Original Firmware, yes, if that's what you mean... |
| 02:15:25 | | Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:17:41 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: the only other thing I can think of is using e200tool recover. then copying over a new bootloader rom and mi4 while in that recovery mode |
| 02:17:48 | Llorean | XavierGr: ZIF iirc |
| 02:18:54 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: Is that entering "manufacturing mode" as described in the wiki? |
| 02:19:08 | XavierGr | Llorean: ah damn, I wanted to bid on a faulty one, I could use the disk for my H100 if it was unusable |
| 02:19:21 | XavierGr | though ZIF can be converted to ATA... |
| 02:19:47 | XavierGr | http://www.engadget.com/media/2006/06/gigabeat-s-exposed.jpg |
| 02:19:52 | XavierGr | yup looks like a ZIF to me |
| 02:20:26 | | Quit Jon-Kha (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 02:20:26 | NSplit | kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 02:20:26 | | Quit Slasheri (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 02:20:26 | | Quit Hadaka (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 02:21:23 | NHeal | kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 02:21:23 | NJoin | Jon-Kha [0] (i=jon-kha@80-248-247-190.cust.suomicom.fi) |
| 02:21:23 | NJoin | Hadaka [0] (i=naked@naked.iki.fi) |
| 02:21:23 | NJoin | Slasheri [0] (i=miipekk@rockbox/developer/Slasheri) |
| 02:22:25 | saratoga | I'll probably pick up an S once rockbox is semifunctional on it |
| 02:22:32 | saratoga | it simply looks like too much fun to work on |
| 02:22:53 | saratoga | that or a TMS target, since their DSP sounds interesting as well |
| 02:22:56 | | Join My_Sic [0] (i=4c449196@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-6ad96fa997fac550) |
| 02:23:15 | My_Sic | Hi everybody |
| 02:23:20 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: yeah |
| 02:23:20 | | Quit animeloe ("Leaving") |
| 02:24:13 | preglow | i'd love to pick up an s and help on the port |
| 02:24:15 | preglow | but we'll see |
| 02:24:21 | preglow | first, i need cash, that's going to help |
| 02:25:14 | My_Sic | it is possible to display lyrics in rockbox ? in id3 tag or in extern txt files ? |
| 02:25:29 | saratoga | does the S have any DSP ability or would it be a plain ARM target as far as codecs are concerned? |
| 02:25:34 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: Think I'll wait till tomorrow doing that. Bit tired now... Thanks for all help so far! |
| 02:25:45 | | Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe) |
| 02:26:23 | barrywardell | ok, good luck |
| 02:27:17 | jhMikeS | preglow: what does that help anyway? it can only do calcs on normalized numbers in hardware? |
| 02:27:48 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 02:28:23 | preglow | jhMikeS: that's what i'm saying, just treating them like zero ensures we're never bogged down with them |
| 02:28:52 | preglow | jhMikeS: any kind of filtering will sooner or later produce denormals |
| 02:30:28 | | Quit My_Sic ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 02:30:46 | | Join My_Sic [0] (i=4c449196@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-eeb2e641dbf2495d) |
| 02:31:00 | jhMikeS | I suppose a simple exponential decay would do that |
| 02:31:17 | preglow | indeed |
| 02:31:21 | saratoga | does it do any sort of hardware fixed point ops? |
| 02:31:36 | preglow | saratoga: well, it has all the usual arm stuff, plus more |
| 02:31:45 | preglow | saratoga: it even has saturating fixed point math and simd integer operations |
| 02:32:11 | preglow | jhMikeS: the x86 fpu can't switch off denormal handling, so you have to resort to all kinds of tricks to avoid them |
| 02:32:24 | preglow | jhMikeS: a pentium 4 will more or less just die if it sees a stream of them |
| 02:32:40 | preglow | altogether nicer to just not worry about them |
| 02:33:04 | saratoga | preglow: but no way to do a Q15.16 fixed point multiply in one op? |
| 02:33:10 | saratoga | i really want a CPU that can do that |
| 02:33:17 | saratoga | wouldn't even be that hard |
| 02:33:57 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: I solved the problem! I took an old laptop I have here running Debian. It only have USB 1.1. And copied the files over there. And recovery worked. Think the problem is that USB 2.0 controllers on my main PCs MoBo must be going west... |
| 02:34:18 | preglow | saratoga: what, arm can, if you don't count the shifting back to Q15.16 |
| 02:35:04 | preglow | but then again, so can coldfire... |
| 02:35:46 | | Quit My_Sic ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 02:35:46 | saratoga | but thats 3 ops in general |
| 02:36:01 | mokkurkalve | Dang! It was USB troubles with my main comp all the way....! Guess sansapatcher will work if I run it on the old laptop then... |
| 02:36:08 | saratoga | could easily be done in one op if they'd put a shifter on the outside of the ALU |
| 02:36:37 | saratoga | would only take a handful of transistors for the shifter, and a few more to handle setting where the decimal point goes |
| 02:37:51 | jhMikeS | preglow: I thought that that hardware could handle them |
| 02:38:04 | preglow | jhMikeS: handle what? |
| 02:38:08 | jhMikeS | denormals |
| 02:38:15 | preglow | jhMikeS: it handles them fine, but waaaay slower |
| 02:38:35 | preglow | jhMikeS: sse can handle denormals in several ways, including flush to zero, but the fpu has no choice but to process them the compliant way |
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| 02:42:11 | | Part pixelma |
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| 02:56:02 | | Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!") |
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| 02:59:29 | webguest86 | Am a green newbie so excuse me! I installed the "current" build on my Sansa e250, by unzipping the file - got a .rockbox folder and the usual contents. The main menu has a "Files" submenu. From there I see <microSD>, Photo, Record, Tmp, VIDEO, root, and Version. If I select <microSD> I can navigate the folders on the SD drive. I assume that if I select root I can do the same on the main drive - but instea |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:23 | scorche | cut off at "but instea" |
| 03:00:46 | webguest86 | but instead it just starts playing a selection on the SD drive. What's wrong |
| 03:01:06 | scorche | well, "Files" is browsing the root of the device |
| 03:01:16 | webguest86 | The menu structure doesn't seem to match at all that in the PDF |
| 03:02:07 | webguest86 | That's reasonable - how do I browse the files on the main drive? |
| 03:02:32 | Llorean | You already are. |
| 03:02:48 | Llorean | As soon as you select "Files" you're seeing the main drive |
| 03:02:51 | webguest86 | Are you saying nothing is there? |
| 03:02:51 | scorche | " Photo, Record, Tmp, VIDEO" and such are folders on the device itself |
| 03:03:12 | scorche | placed there by the original firmware |
| 03:03:23 | webguest86 | I had a Music folder that contained numerous subfolders containing tracks |
| 03:03:39 | saratoga | perhaps it is hidden? |
| 03:03:45 | Llorean | On the e200 series, the Music folder is automatically hidden by the original firmware |
| 03:03:46 | preglow | what flavours does the gigabeat s come in? 30 and 60? |
| 03:03:48 | preglow | 30 seems most common |
| 03:03:53 | scorche | preglow: yes |
| 03:04:06 | krazykit | that folder is marked as "hidden" by the OF, so you need to either use the database, set your file browsing mode to "all", or use a different folder |
| 03:04:18 | scorche | actually, only 1 out of the 5 i sent was a 30 too :P |
| 03:04:33 | webguest86 | krazykit: thanks I'll try one of those |
| 03:04:45 | preglow | mmmmmm... nice low dollar |
| 03:04:45 | PaulJam | is there a special reason why hidden folders aren't shown in the suppoted view? this seems to confuse many users. |
| 03:05:15 | saratoga | i think its mostly to avoid them seeing the .rockbox folder and such |
| 03:05:21 | scorche | PaulJam: showing hidden folders confuse them too...specifically seeing the .rockbox folder |
| 03:05:21 | Llorean | PaulJam: Because honestly, people shouldn't be hiding their "Music" folder |
| 03:05:29 | saratoga | people only get confused because of the sandisk firmware, which won't be a problem once we get USB |
| 03:06:14 | PaulJam | can't you treat folders with a dot in front differnt than filders with the "hidden" attribute? |
| 03:06:38 | mokkurkalve | Then I have Rockbox allright on my new e280. Dang! Well, I need a new MoBo on my PC. USB corruption all the way... It's a bit embarrasing... Well, thanks all! |
| 03:06:57 | Llorean | PaulJam: A dot in front is "hidden" in Linux terms, the hidden attribute is hidden in FAT32 terms. We really shouldn't differentiate between hiddens. |
| 03:07:00 | webguest86 | krazykit: i tried setting the file view mode to "all", and it WORKED. Thanks. |
| 03:07:12 | Llorean | PaulJam: And again, under what conditions would a normal user "Hide" his music folder? |
| 03:07:23 | Llorean | It's only the problematic design of the e200 firmware. |
| 03:08:26 | PaulJam | well, for example the sansa firmware hides the music folder without the user interacting. |
| 03:09:02 | Llorean | PaulJam: Yes, but the user doesn't have to put their songs in the MUSIC folder that the e200 firmware uses |
| 03:09:06 | Llorean | It'll even find music in other folders |
| 03:09:35 | Llorean | Their own file browser will show them that the folder's hidden while they're putting music in it... |
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| 03:10:42 | | Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 03:11:00 | PaulJam | ok, i thought the sansa uses some itunes-like software where the user doesn't see that the folder is hidden. |
| 03:12:10 | Llorean | They can use an MTP transfer program too, if they want to. |
| 03:12:22 | Llorean | But in MSC mode, you'll see the folder is hidden |
| 03:12:29 | Llorean | And can unhide it, at least until the next time you boot the OF |
| 03:14:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:17:56 | | Quit webguest86 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 03:19:09 | | Quit PaulJam (".") |
| 03:29:09 | barrywardell | mokkurkalve: good to hear you have it working now |
| 03:31:03 | | Join karashata [0] (n=karashat@207.61.208.119) |
| 03:31:40 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 03:31:48 | mokkurkalve | barrywardell: But a bit embarrased over raising a stink over such an issue, when it boiled down to PC hardware trouble only... ;D Well, thanks again! |
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| 03:38:45 | | Quit Billenium ("Ex-Chat") |
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| 03:49:11 | billenium | Does rockbox use less battery life? because my friend and I both had ipod nanos 1st gen and they both died. So we plugged them into my computer. They both had the "Please wait very low battery" and it stayed like that for 30 minutes. So we both took ours out and did a reboot. Mine opened up to Rockbox and i quickly put his in. His did nothing. |
| 03:49:50 | billenium | mine opened up to rockbox and i quickly put mine in* |
| 03:52:56 | hcs | so why exactly is there "-Skipped 766 measurements from 00:03:45 to 04:12:26-" in battery bench? |
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| 04:22:08 | spliifdown | hi |
| 04:22:31 | spliifdown | just wondering if i should bother waiting for a 2nd gen nano hack to come out |
| 04:22:41 | spliifdown | or just splash out on the touch |
| 04:23:42 | billenium | spliifdown: dont hold your breath |
| 04:24:01 | billenium | spliifdown: I think one of the reasons they released the 2nd generating was because they didnt want you changing the firmware |
| 04:25:23 | spliifdown | oh orite |
| 04:25:29 | Soap | I wouldn't get paranoid like that - but the 2nd gen nano will not be supported for a long time. |
| 04:25:41 | spliifdown | its tottallly eencrypted |
| 04:25:50 | Soap | Promises aren't usually made about future ports, but that is a pretty safe promise on my part. |
| 04:26:28 | spliifdown | what programming language does it use the 2nd gen i mean |
| 04:27:17 | spliifdown | anyone have a clue |
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| 04:28:32 | psycho_maniac | can we promise a nano 2nd gen in 50 years? ;) |
| 04:28:49 | psycho_maniac | s/nano 2nd gen/nano 2nd gen port |
| 04:28:54 | Soap | could be FORTRAN for all anyone knows, or all it matters. Neither Rockbox, nor IpodLinux use any part of the original firmware, so the language it was written in before compiling doesn't much matter. |
| 04:29:05 | safetydan | spliifdown: it's likely C/C++ with asm but there's no way to know for sure. Doesn't matter though. Or what Soap said |
| 04:29:46 | spliifdown | you do need to since you wil have to decompile it am i not right? |
| 04:30:08 | spliifdown | since most of the coding in these apps are reverse engineered |
| 04:30:08 | Soap | you don't decompile it back to source code. |
| 04:30:35 | Llorean | And less is reverse engineered than you might expect |
| 04:31:03 | spliifdown | you need to knw how the software interacts with the hardware |
| 04:31:14 | spliifdown | in order to write the code |
| 04:31:31 | spliifdown | correct? |
| 04:31:41 | spliifdown | and is that where the problem lies? |
| 04:31:45 | Soap | you decompile it back to assembly language, and saying "most" is not an accurate representation of the amount of info in Rockbox gleaned from reverse engineering. |
| 04:32:03 | Soap | one of the problems. |
| 04:32:30 | spliifdown | rockbox i understand the effort put into it |
| 04:32:30 | Soap | the other major issue is getting custom software, even if it had working drivers, to be "allowed" to run on the hardware. |
| 04:32:56 | spliifdown | oh orite |
| 04:33:08 | spliifdown | so its actually not worth hacking it |
| 04:33:31 | Soap | didn't say that. |
| 04:33:33 | psycho_maniac | can anybody with a gigabeat reproduce this? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8241?histring=gigabeat i cannot and i have the latest build |
| 04:33:44 | Soap | and perhaps you misunderstand what I mean my "allowed" |
| 04:34:08 | spliifdown | "allowed" did you mean it legal terms? |
| 04:34:23 | Soap | I mean there is a bootloader which launches the firmware on the iPods, and it is this bootloader which will need to be "faked out", as it were, to loading Rockbox instead of Apple. |
| 04:34:42 | spliifdown | gotchya |
| 04:35:29 | spliifdown | alot of work |
| 04:35:35 | spliifdown | if i were to begin this |
| 04:35:47 | spliifdown | i would need to learn c++ |
| 04:35:50 | spliifdown | and asm |
| 04:35:57 | safetydan | asm, yes, C++ not so much |
| 04:36:08 | spliifdown | but i think i should best start off with python? |
| 04:36:15 | safetydan | but better would be a general understanding of how hardware works |
| 04:36:24 | safetydan | python isn't going to help you with that |
| 04:36:40 | spliifdown | not with that as a programming starting point |
| 04:37:00 | spliifdown | i knw how to use vb, but anyone with brain can use that |
| 04:38:56 | spliifdown | is java similar to asm? |
| 04:39:19 | spliifdown | if it is might be able to get my hands dirty asap |
| 04:41:00 | spliifdown | neway Soap, hopefully i can get my mind going on this |
| 04:41:17 | spliifdown | thanks for your time, very appreciated |
| 04:41:29 | spliifdown | its 4am here so i best be off to sleep |
| 04:41:31 | spliifdown | cheers mate |
| 04:42:34 | spliifdown | thanks safetydan |
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| 04:49:49 | lostlogic | will anyone be upset if I spend 128 bytes of code size to make stripping tags easier? |
| 04:51:29 | safetydan | lostlogic: will it fix the bug with tag stripping and gapless? |
| 04:52:08 | lostlogic | that's my point |
| 04:52:22 | lostlogic | it could be done without the extra 128 bytes but it would be more difficult |
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| 04:53:08 | Llorean | Does more difficult also mean "more complex, and harder for future developers to understand when they see it"? |
| 04:53:53 | safetydan | I'd say use the bytes if it leads to clearer code |
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| 04:54:17 | Llorean | Agreed |
| 04:54:17 | lostlogic | ok, thanks for the feedback, I'll see how much complexity it would add before making a final decision |
| 04:54:51 | Llorean | I'm all for saving space, but I prefer to do it by shooting down redundancy rather than saying "space is more important than doing it a good way" |
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| 04:55:53 | Llorean | Also, anyone know when mpegplayer got dithering, and what I can expect from it? |
| 04:55:54 | safetydan | and there's plenty of redundancy to sort out |
| 04:56:03 | webguest26 | I'm trying to find some menu entries like Settings -> General Settings -> Display -> Browse Fonts or Settings -> General Settings -> Display -> Browse .WPS files. |
| 04:56:24 | webguest26 | the manual says they're there, but I cannot find them |
| 04:56:34 | psycho_maniac | what player? |
| 04:56:40 | webguest26df | hi i vae a question, is there a way to zoom into photos without having to stop the music from playing? |
| 04:56:47 | Llorean | webguest26: They're under theme settings now, I believe |
| 04:56:54 | karashata | webguest26: those options have been moved to Theme Settings now |
| 04:56:56 | Llorean | webguest26: Unfortunately, I don't think whoever changed it updated the manual |
| 04:57:02 | safetydan | Llorean: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=14851 |
| 04:57:10 | webguest26 | I can get as far as the Display menu, but only get LCD Settings, Scrolling, and three other things. |
| 04:57:16 | webguest26 | I have the e250 Sansa |
| 04:57:30 | webguest26 | and current build of Rockbox |
| 04:57:55 | webguest26df | please help i really need to know thank you. :) |
| 04:57:56 | karashata | Theme settings is in the root of the settings menu now, not in the General Settings |
| 04:57:58 | webguest26 | I want to create a wps file, and then I assume I would browse to it in the settings menu |
| 04:58:41 | webguest26df | thank you i got to go bye! :) |
| 04:58:49 | psycho_maniac | go to Settings>Theme Settings> webguest26 |
| 04:58:52 | webguest26 | ok - I see "Theme settings" - and it contains .wps and fonts. |
| 04:58:55 | | Quit webguest26df (Client Quit) |
| 04:58:58 | webguest26 | Am I using the wrong manual? |
| 04:59:32 | safetydan | webguest26: no, I think the manual is just out of date for that part |
| 04:59:34 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:59:35 | webguest26 | using rockbox-sansae200.pdf, and getting the same information from the online Sansa e200 manual |
| 04:59:51 | psycho_maniac | in that menu browse themes, browse fonts, browse .wps files, show icons, clear backdrop, line selector type, and colours |
| 04:59:52 | webguest26 | ok - can't expect manuals to keep up with the times i guess |
| 05:00 |
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| 05:00:11 | n17ikh|Lappy | that's... an interesting error |
| 05:00:13 | Llorean | webguest26: You *should* be able to expect manuals to stay up to date. |
| 05:00:21 | webguest26 | right |
| 05:00:23 | Llorean | Unfortunately, not everyone is consistent in updating it when they change things |
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| 05:00:32 | n17ikh|Lappy | I got an "undefined instruction" error on my H10 20gb with the latest build |
| 05:01:05 | n17ikh|Lappy | should I try and delete my config file or some such and try again? or is it just a problem with the build itself, most likely? |
| 05:01:57 | karashata | n17ikh|Lappy: depends, what were you trying to do when you got that? |
| 05:02:04 | n17ikh|Lappy | power it on :/ |
| 05:02:15 | karashata | hmm... |
| 05:02:37 | karashata | try clearing your settings and see if it happens again |
| 05:02:56 | n17ikh|Lappy | go go gadget reset button |
| 05:03:12 | karashata | turn it on and flip the hold switch into the lock position before the Rockbox screen comes up to clear them the easy way |
| 05:03:41 | n17ikh|Lappy | does that actually save the cleared settings? |
| 05:03:53 | n17ikh|Lappy | or is it just for that boot |
| 05:04:06 | n17ikh|Lappy | because, in the past, on the iriver it just did it for the boot with the hold switch |
| 05:04:20 | n17ikh|Lappy | on my sansa e series, it apparently saves the cleared settings automagically |
| 05:04:29 | n17ikh|Lappy | but that's with a much newer build |
| 05:04:30 | karashata | I'm not sure, I think is will save them if it gets a chance to write to disk, but I could be wrong |
| 05:04:53 | karashata | I've had it work either way |
| 05:05:08 | karashata | same player and most recent builds, and I never had it crash on me, so... |
| 05:05:28 | karashata | what screen do you have it set to start up on when it loads up? |
| 05:05:49 | n17ikh|Lappy | mm |
| 05:05:55 | n17ikh|Lappy | probably... the previous one |
| 05:05:58 | n17ikh|Lappy | which is most likely the wps |
| 05:06:08 | n17ikh|Lappy | ok, yeah |
| 05:06:16 | n17ikh|Lappy | booting with the config cleared fixes it |
| 05:06:24 | n17ikh|Lappy | now to find exactly WHAT causes it |
| 05:06:43 | karashata | it might be a glitch with trying to start on the previous screen it shut down on |
| 05:06:51 | n17ikh|Lappy | let me change that |
| 05:06:55 | karashata | I haven't had it do that myself, so... |
| 05:07:33 | n17ikh|Lappy | where's that hide |
| 05:07:40 | n17ikh|Lappy | not the setting itself, but where it keeps the previous screen |
| 05:07:57 | karashata | no idea, you'd have to change the setting |
| 05:07:59 | n17ikh|Lappy | course, I could just delete that one setting |
| 05:08:54 | karashata | I think it would be easier for you to change the setting to start on a specific screen than to try to find the one setting in the config file and delete its value |
| 05:09:18 | karashata | I have mine set to start on previous screen and it booted fine to the WPS when I just tested now |
| 05:09:26 | karashata | default is to boot to main menu |
| 05:09:42 | karashata | I'll see if I can reproduce your problem and figure out what it was |
| 05:09:43 | n17ikh|Lappy | fixed |
| 05:10:00 | n17ikh|Lappy | don't know what caused the problem, though |
| 05:10:05 | n17ikh|Lappy | other than starting in the WPS |
| 05:10:17 | karashata | it may have just been that the upgrade changed something and it didn't like it from where it had been shut down from your previous build |
| 05:10:29 | n17ikh|Lappy | well, also the dynamic playlist was gone |
| 05:10:44 | n17ikh|Lappy | when I went to resume play in the new build, it just said nothing to resume |
| 05:11:03 | karashata | hmm... |
| 05:11:10 | n17ikh|Lappy | yeah, that's what I said |
| 05:11:15 | karashata | what build were you upgrading from? |
| 05:11:16 | n17ikh|Lappy | pretty sure I didn't delete any music files |
| 05:11:21 | n17ikh|Lappy | an old one? dunno |
| 05:11:28 | n17ikh|Lappy | I haven't used my h10 in a month or so |
| 05:11:37 | n17ikh|Lappy | since I got the e260 |
| 05:11:46 | n17ikh|Lappy | flash players are so much nicer |
| 05:12:02 | karashata | you probably ran into something being changed between your old build and the recent one that your settings didn't get along with very well |
| 05:12:09 | n17ikh|Lappy | probably. |
| 05:12:14 | n17ikh|Lappy | not really worth worrying about |
| 05:12:24 | karashata | if it doesn't happen again, no it's not |
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| 05:35:29 | lostlogic | who has mp3s with trailing ape or id3v1 tags and experiences gapless breakage? |
| 05:35:33 | lostlogic | going to need a tester shortly. |
| 05:41:52 | Mouser_X | lostlogic: There was talk about making the MIDI player into a codec. I was going through the logs, so I don't know how far the discussion got. However, if I'm not mistaken, MIDI shouild be flagged as atomic, correct? In the discussion I read, this wasn't mentioned. I just though it ought to be pointed out to someone, though. |
| 05:42:42 | lostlogic | Mouser_X: yes, you are correct and I also saw the discussion (I was just masterfully lurking out of it). Nico knows that and was referencing it when he said something like "Buffering supports these things" |
| 05:43:05 | Mouser_X | Ah. I probably missed that. |
| 05:43:55 | lostlogic | safetydan, llorean, anyone else: http://test.lostlogicx.com/transfer/rockbox/20071127_FS8069.patch |
| 05:44:10 | lostlogic | should fix gapless, if you have any badly tagged files to test, also for general code review. |
| 05:44:11 | Mouser_X | Also, ADXs aren't looping still. I was hoping that when 8092 (backwords seeking, IIRC) was fixed, that when the codec attempted to loop the file, it would reload the overwritten portion, or something. |
| 05:44:28 | lostlogic | Mouser_X: what happens when they try to loop? |
| 05:44:31 | lostlogic | it should. |
| 05:45:01 | Mouser_X | I haven't had a chance to test with the rebuffer stuff yet, but HCS says they're still behaving the same as they did before the fix. |
| 05:45:16 | Mouser_X | (He did test, but he was on his way to bed, so I mentioned it instead.) |
| 05:45:34 | lostlogic | gotcha - well nico's fixage should make them work, not sure why it's not. |
| 05:46:20 | Mouser_X | Before the fix, they'd loop, as long as they hadn't been overwritten. If the currently playing ADX was near the end of the buffer, it'd be overwritten, and thus wouldn't loop. This is, apparently, still happening. |
| 05:46:37 | Mouser_X | I figured it was worth mentioning, at least. |
| 05:46:53 | lostlogic | yeah, for sure −− it should at least be able to loop... eventually... with nico's changes. |
| 05:46:54 | | Join FunkyELF [0] (n=funkyelf@105.149.243.24.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 05:47:08 | lostlogic | it would just require a big buffer dump |
| 05:47:12 | Mouser_X | (Even though I'm aware that you're not too fond of ADX's "unique" features.) |
| 05:47:29 | safetydan | lostlogic: I don't have any broken files to test, but I can't see anything obviously wrong with that patch |
| 05:47:31 | lostlogic | I'd prefer to pretend them out of existance, yes. |
| 05:47:41 | Mouser_X | Heh. |
| 05:47:59 | FunkyELF | hey guys, I looked at the online docs for rockbox on a video ipod and it didn't say anything about being able to select rockbox or the default apple firmware. I saw on youtube that you can do that. Is that how following the docs will set it up it just didn't mention it? |
| 05:48:26 | Mouser_X | FunkyELF: Dual-boot is how Rockbox works. |
| 05:48:48 | Mouser_X | In other words, if you install according to the directions provided, it will dual-boot. |
| 05:48:54 | Mouser_X | If not, it probably won't boot. |
| 05:49:04 | scorche | rockbox is dual-boot by deafault, but if you want to have an actual menu to select from, then you will want to look towards Loader2 (ipl's BL) |
| 05:49:09 | Mouser_X | (That is, if you don't follow the directions, you might have trouble booting.) |
| 05:49:37 | Mouser_X | scorche: Ah, I didn't know that Loader2 had a menu thingy. |
| 05:50:00 | FunkyELF | is it common to "brick" you iPod while installing rockbox on it? |
| 05:50:16 | lostlogic | nearly impossible. |
| 05:50:26 | FunkyELF | good to know |
| 05:50:53 | l7 | how likely is bricking with sansas? |
| 05:51:25 | FunkyELF | I have a 5th gen 60Gb video iPod, my brother just got an 80Gb iPod classic which apparently can't run rockbox.....he said he'll trade with someone at work who has an 80Gb Video iPod if I install it and like it |
| 05:51:26 | Mouser_X | FunkyELF: Bricking is only likely if you use the "Sledgehammer method" to install. That is, beating it senseless... |
| 05:51:41 | FunkyELF | l7, my Sandisk bricked itself |
| 05:52:00 | lostlogic | FunkyELF: and you ere unable to restore? |
| 05:52:00 | * | Mouser_X installed Rockbox on his e250 *very* easily. |
| 05:52:04 | scorche | l7: unlikely (although it is simple to get it into a brick-like-state if you dont follow the instructions) |
| 05:52:08 | lostlogic | FunkyELF: I temp-bricked mine but was able to fix with the instructions |
| 05:52:13 | l7 | FunkyELF: wow, how did it happen? |
| 05:52:45 | FunkyELF | lostlogic, l7 firmware aparently had a race condition in it....just freezes after a while |
| 05:52:47 | | Part safetydan |
| 05:53:03 | l7 | weird |
| 05:53:04 | lostlogic | FunkyELF: that's not bricked, don't scare people |
| 05:53:22 | FunkyELF | I saw tons of posts of people complaining about it and how SanDisk knows about it but doesn't do anything other than send you another one which will freeze after a while too |
| 05:53:25 | l7 | FunkyELF: was that OF or rockbox? |
| 05:53:48 | FunkyELF | This had nothing to do with rockbox....just the crappy Sansa M250 |
| 05:56:07 | FunkyELF | will my iPod be able to work with all those iPod accessories with rockbox? |
| 05:57:04 | Mouser_X | Not Likely. There's a wiki page that can tell you more though. |
| 05:57:10 | | Nick billenium is now known as BilleniumZzZ (n=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 05:57:18 | Mouser_X | (I don't have an iPod, and thus I don't remember the page.) |
| 05:57:23 | lostlogic | I am awesome. gapless fix works first shot. |
| 05:57:31 | l7 | FunkyELF: did sandisk try to fix it? |
| 05:57:37 | FunkyELF | doesn't seem impossible, just a lot of reverse engineering to see what that little port provides |
| 05:57:40 | Mouser_X | lostlogic = AWESOME |
| 05:57:43 | Mouser_X | Nice job. |
| 05:57:56 | FunkyELF | l7, they sent me a new one, different firmware I think |
| 05:58:03 | psycho_maniac | what was wrong with gapless? |
| 05:58:09 | l7 | oh okay, nice service i guess |
| 05:58:19 | Mouser_X | psycho_maniac: It doesn't work, if your MP3s have trailing tags. |
| 05:58:32 | psycho_maniac | define: trailing tags |
| 05:58:40 | Mouser_X | ID3 v1, or APE tags. |
| 05:59:07 | lostlogic | tags on th eend of files would break codecs with variable frame sizes (like mp3 vbr) |
| 05:59:08 | psycho_maniac | FunkyELF: look at this page: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodAccessories |
| 06:00 |
| 06:01:10 | psycho_maniac | awesome. |
| 06:01:44 | | Quit karashata ("I will *SO* make you regret that... Later... *is a lazy dragon*") |
| 06:01:46 | lostlogic | it was one of the last remaining regressions from MoB |
| 06:02:59 | lostlogic | and the fact that it worked first shot is a testament to how much better the playback system is thanks to Nico_P. |
| 06:09:24 | lostlogic | bagh, red |
| 06:11:11 | psycho_maniac | wow lots of red. |
| 06:11:23 | lostlogic | all hwcodec targets |
| 06:11:37 | lostlogic | oh and code size |
| 06:11:40 | lostlogic | wtf 1/2k!? |
| 06:11:45 | * | lostlogic scowls |
| 06:12:08 | psycho_maniac | will it still be safe to download the current build? |
| 06:12:35 | lostlogic | yes |
| 06:12:42 | lostlogic | no problem on swcodec targets |
| 06:15:16 | lostlogic | I hate binary size increases *cry* |
| 06:24:21 | | Join fiXXXerMet [0] (n=meep@cmu-24-35-53-185.mivlmd.cablespeed.com) |
| 06:25:45 | fiXXXerMet | I was following a post about turning the e260r into a e260 and then putting rockbox on it. It said to hold down the select button and press power, while hold is enabled. I did this, and it worked, but now I can't turn the device off. The blue light stays on, and it won't go off (nor will the screen come on). |
| 06:26:04 | lostlogic | fiXXXerMet: hold the power button for longer |
| 06:26:08 | lostlogic | like 30-60s |
| 06:26:16 | fiXXXerMet | Yeah? ok. |
| 06:26:26 | fiXXXerMet | ... |
| 06:26:29 | fiXXXerMet | Thanks. |
| 06:27:00 | fiXXXerMet | Was does that button combo do anyway, when it turns the blue light on? |
| 06:27:27 | scorche | puts teh device into manufacture mode |
| 06:28:12 | fiXXXerMet | Okay |
| 06:31:04 | | Part Llorean |
| 06:32:16 | | Part fiXXXerMet |
| 06:48:31 | | Join Spanky [0] (i=407e8b3f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-00747bb07c461cb7) |
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| 07:00 |
| 07:01:35 | | Join Traveler4 [0] (n=traveler@CPE-69-23-137-242.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 07:03:04 | Traveler4 | is it faster to add images then update the lcd at the end of a cycle in rockbox compared to ipodlinux programs with openGl? |
| 07:09:56 | | Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) |
| 07:10:55 | | Join woodensoul [0] (n=woodenso@72.86.92.80) |
| 07:12:09 | woodensoul | Looking for a pre-built simulator for the iRiver H320, but rasher's site isn't working right now. |
| 07:14:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 07:21:03 | psycho_maniac | how does the %cf tag work? what would you use for a conditional? |
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| 07:32:14 | * | GTroy can't seem to find where the sansa with rockbox is to mount |
| 07:33:12 | lostlogic | GTroy: check dmesg for the latest USB storage device mapped |
| 07:33:22 | GTroy | gotcha |
| 07:33:32 | * | GTroy did that but forgot what to look for |
| 07:34:05 | GTroy | danke |
| 07:34:10 | lostlogic | np |
| 07:39:31 | | Quit woodensoul () |
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| 08:00 |
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| 08:09:50 | | Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
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| 08:25:55 | woodensoul | How can i make a backdrop that is supported by Rockbox? |
| 08:26:11 | woodensoul | I see that it says 220X176 for the H320, 1 bit, or 24 bit. |
| 08:27:09 | GodEater_ | so what's the actual question ? |
| 08:27:09 | LinusN | you have to look up what resolution your player has, and create a bitmap with exactly those dimensions |
| 08:27:11 | | Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) |
| 08:27:30 | woodensoul | I just figured it out. |
| 08:28:10 | woodensoul | I used irfanview, but I had to check "change color depth" and set it to 24BPP. |
| 08:29:09 | | Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 08:29:53 | woodensoul | Another question: why does the sound from the simular skip when performing other functions within Windows? |
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| 08:31:38 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 08:33:09 | woodensoul | *simulator* |
| 08:34:17 | GodEater_ | haven't noticed that myself - the sim behaves just fine for me =/ |
| 08:34:52 | woodensoul | Well I just started using it yesterday and I want to use it as my default media player since I love Rockbox on my DAPs so much. |
| 08:35:07 | GodEater_ | I do that too :) |
| 08:35:31 | woodensoul | it seems to skip when copying files, opening folders through explorer |
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| 08:39:02 | LinusN | woodensoul: the simulator is not optimized in any way, and is just a debugging tool |
| 08:41:24 | woodensoul | LinusN: I see. I've been loving it learning to make WPSs and I'll probably go ahead and start using it for my default audio player and just cut back on other windows operations while listening. |
| 08:46:28 | | Join aliask [0] (n=chatzill@c58-109-97-210.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 08:46:36 | woodensoul | Is there any way to use the Simulator to play music that is not in the "Archos" directory? |
| 08:48:51 | amiconn | Use a symlink (or on windows, a junction point) within the archos dir |
| 08:49:37 | * | amiconn uses junction points to have only one copy of his testfile tree for a whole bunch of simulators |
| 08:51:51 | woodensoul | Where can I learn how to do that? |
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| 09:08:26 | | Join robert10_infoxp [0] (n=robert10@189.181.233.150) |
| 09:08:35 | robert10_infoxp | hola |
| 09:08:53 | robert10_infoxp | alguien habla español? |
| 09:10:00 | robert10_infoxp | holaaa |
| 09:10:34 | | Quit robert10_infoxp ("Adios amigos de informaticaxp.org") |
| 09:11:01 | scorche | ingles por favor |
| 09:11:04 | LycoLoco | lol |
| 09:11:08 | LycoLoco | a little late, scorche |
| 09:11:20 | scorche | callate! |
| 09:12:02 | LycoLoco | heh |
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| 09:14:21 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 09:14:30 | woodensoul | Google is my friend. ;-) |
| 09:14:45 | woodensoul | Why is it that the controls listed arent' the same on my keyboard in the sim? |
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| 09:17:08 | GodEater_ | good question |
| 09:17:17 | GodEater_ | where is the list you refer to ? |
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| 09:46:28 | needhelp | Hi! I need your help. Iam collecting points in page listed below. If you be so kind, please click url below.(sorry for the spam, thank you) http://www.3dwhite.lt/?click=56a3cdcf22ccc7ab5f0a7f4d2bc900ff |
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| 09:46:51 | markun | at least he's saying sorry :) |
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| 09:48:12 | petur | rofl |
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| 10:25:06 | Nico_P | lostlogic: nice commit :) |
| 10:27:20 | petur | shame he didn't use the correct FS# syntax to create the link... |
| 10:28:12 | linuxstb | Or a shame the FS linker doesn't support FSxxxx... |
| 10:28:34 | Bagder | those lame script writers should be shot |
| 10:28:49 | petur | haha |
| 10:30:56 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend") |
| 10:39:02 | linuxstb | preglow: Would it be worth putting your rbspeexdec.c program in SVN - so people can test their encodings? |
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| 10:47:01 | Nico_P | aliask: what's the status of interrupts on the S? |
| 10:47:30 | aliask | Nico_P: ptw419 did some work on them, but never got them working |
| 10:47:54 | aliask | Not entirely sure what he did |
| 10:48:01 | Nico_P | hmm |
| 10:48:17 | * | linuxstb summons ptw419 |
| 10:48:39 | Nico_P | aliask: what kind of experience did he have with ARM? |
| 10:49:31 | linuxstb | As we're going to need USB in the bootloader anyway (which I'm assuming is going to require interrupts), maybe we should concentrate on getting interrupts working well in the bootloader build, and forget about the main Rockbox build for now? |
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| 10:51:08 | Nico_P | linuxstb: makes sense... what are they used for in the current bootloader? (or what could we use them for as test?) |
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| 10:51:20 | GodEater_ | linuxstb: summoning ptw419 requires a small sacrifice and some sort of ritual dancing I think... |
| 10:51:30 | * | linuxstb fetches the goat |
| 10:51:43 | petur | heh |
| 10:51:46 | | Quit webguest16 (Client Quit) |
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| 10:51:51 | aliask | Nico_P: He was learning as he went I think. |
| 10:52:43 | linuxstb | Nico_P: The first thing would probably just be the ticker interrupt - we can test that's working by just displaying the value of current_tick. |
| 10:52:56 | webguest16 | I have a ipod shuffle look alike, can I install rockbox on this look alike? |
| 10:53:13 | linuxstb | No. You can't even install it on a genuine ipod shuffle. |
| 10:53:34 | webguest16 | why? |
| 10:53:42 | aliask | Nico_P: Currently the current_tick variable is faked and just points to a hardware timer which increments at 100hz. |
| 10:53:47 | | Join webguest75 [0] (i=5614d05d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-9abc340a9b823bbd) |
| 10:53:59 | linuxstb | webguest16: Because all mp3 players are different and Rockbox needs to be made to work on every one individually - which is a lot of work. |
| 10:54:06 | webguest75 | hi. is the rickbox support irc? |
| 10:54:15 | linuxstb | No, Rockbox. |
| 10:55:00 | webguest75 | hi |
| 10:55:39 | webguest75 | hello |
| 10:55:45 | | Quit webguest75 (Client Quit) |
| 10:56:22 | linuxstb | aliask: Ah, do you know the resolution of the hardware timer? |
| 10:57:23 | aliask | Let me check |
| 10:57:53 | Nico_P | linuxstb: what's the code that enables interrupts? set_irq_level? |
| 10:58:33 | linuxstb | Yes, plus you need to ensure the exception vectors (normally located at address 0x0, but possibly they can be remapped) point to interrupt handlers. |
| 10:58:51 | aliask | linuxstb: 27mhz |
| 10:59:13 | linuxstb | Ah, the "mpeg tick" frequency (IIRC). |
| 10:59:15 | GodEater_ | is that normal ? Seems a very off figure.... |
| 10:59:23 | GodEater_ | s/off/odd |
| 10:59:34 | * | GodEater_ looks suspiciously at his keyboard |
| 10:59:54 | Bagder | GodEater: someone switched your d and f keys again? ;-) |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:02 | Nico_P | linuxstb: ah then it's probably a problem with the exception vectors, isn't it? set_irq_level should just be the same as any other ARM, shouldn't it? |
| 11:00:29 | aliask | 0x0 is not writable on the IMX31 |
| 11:00:43 | GodEater_ | Bagder: apparently not, they switched the wiring between my middle and ring fingers instead |
| 11:00:46 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Yes, that would be the first place I would look. We need to try and understand how memory is being mapped - that should be the code in crt0.S and maybe the system.c for i.mx31 |
| 11:00:56 | markun | aliask: then where does it point to? |
| 11:01:21 | linuxstb | aliask: But that's where ARM exception vectors live... On PortalPlayer for example, we remap DRAM to start at 0x0 so we can modify the exception vectors. |
| 11:01:40 | aliask | 0x0 is "Secure ROM" according to the datasheet |
| 11:01:57 | linuxstb | But I think PP also has registers to remap the exception vectors elsewhere - so maybe the imx31 has the same ability. |
| 11:02:01 | markun | ah, like that. On the Gigabeat F we also remap DRAM to 0x0 |
| 11:02:42 | linuxstb | Does the imx have any IRAM? |
| 11:03:21 | aliask | I think so, 0x1FFFC000 is "RAM" according to the IMX datasheet, 16kb worth. |
| 11:03:21 | | Quit webguest16 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 11:03:47 | linuxstb | By default the Telechips devices have IRAM at 0x0, and SDRAM at 0x20000000 (IIRC), so the exception vectors can be in IRAM. |
| 11:04:28 | * | GodEater_ wonders what on earth "Secure ROM" is |
| 11:04:43 | linuxstb | ROM with a big "Keep Out!" sign on it. |
| 11:04:51 | GodEater_ | funny |
| 11:05:06 | GodEater_ | guard dogs and watch towers too presumably |
| 11:06:37 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 11:06:48 | Bagder | possibly it is or can be encrypted |
| 11:07:26 | linuxstb | How is it decrypted? |
| 11:08:25 | Bagder | good question, it just struck me that I recall imx having some crypto suff in it |
| 11:08:27 | Bagder | stuff |
| 11:08:57 | Bagder | I'm just speculating |
| 11:08:58 | Bagder | ignore me |
| 11:10:39 | linuxstb | From one of Freescale's product briefs - "Includes secure ROM designed to provide restricted access and interrupt-free execution for sensitive code" |
| 11:11:35 | Nico_P | there isn't much about it in the datasheet |
| 11:13:20 | linuxstb | So I guess we need to either remap DRAM over the top of it, or move the exception vectors from 0x0.... Does the datasheet describe how to use interrupts? |
| 11:13:44 | Nico_P | yes |
| 11:14:24 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:14:45 | aliask | linuxstb: There's an "Accelerated Vector Interrupt Controller", which is documented, but this is just designed to help the ARM interrupts as far as I can see |
| 11:18:05 | GodEater_ | aliask: can't we use that anyway though ? Assuming I'm understanding it correctly, the ARM interrupts are processed there anyway ? |
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| 11:19:15 | aliask | Well, I think it's supposed to be used to tell where an interrupt came from. IIUC you usually just get a general "interrupt", which would jump to an interrupt function. That function should check the AVIC to see what caused it, and act accordingly. |
| 11:19:40 | aliask | But, I'm no expert |
| 11:19:45 | | Quit spitball_ ("leaving") |
| 11:23:33 | * | GodEater_ prods at the "experts" for comment |
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| 11:27:58 | Nico_P | to get basic interrupts working I doubt we need to care about the AVIC |
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| 11:28:09 | aliask | Hrm, it seems that the MMU code has been moved into a generic ARM MMU file. Good stuff. |
| 11:28:53 | Nico_P | how to we remap DRAM to 0x0? |
| 11:29:01 | aliask | I worry though that if we reset the MMU we'll lose the memory mapping to the LCD |
| 11:29:35 | aliask | Nico_P: map_section() in firmware/target/arm/mmu-arm.c |
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| 11:30:42 | | Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:31:17 | GodEater_ | the reference manual seems to indicate that you have to use the AVIC, regardless of whether you want to use it's advanced features or not =/ |
| 11:31:41 | Nico_P | aliask: mmu-imx31.c has map_section too... shouldn't it be removed? |
| 11:31:50 | GodEater_ | section 9.4.3 if anyone is interested... |
| 11:32:04 | Nico_P | GodEater_: I don't understand much of it :/ |
| 11:32:05 | aliask | Nico_P: Yep |
| 11:33:31 | markun | Nico_P: is the mmu from the imx31 different from the general ARM one? (used by the m:robe and gigabeat f) |
| 11:33:37 | Nico_P | GodEater_: doesn't that part say interrupt handlers are looked for in 0x18 + MMU_OFFSET? |
| 11:33:40 | jhMikeS | Comment before I have to leave: the first thing I'll do after receiving the S is redo the whole avic system. We don't dynamically install handlers so it can be much simpler I think. |
| 11:33:49 | Nico_P | markun: I have no idea |
| 11:34:06 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: it's ordered? |
| 11:34:30 | jhMikeS | Why does that matter? |
| 11:34:33 | aliask | markun: I don't think so. The imx31 datasheet points you to the ARM documentation on the CP15 register, which the arm-mmu code seems to use |
| 11:34:46 | jhMikeS | The F uses a vector table |
| 11:35:03 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: to know if you're going to get it soon :) |
| 11:35:53 | jhMikeS | oh :P |
| 11:36:00 | markun | aliask: could you use the general arm-mmu code then and maybe update it with any improvements from the imx31 code? |
| 11:36:02 | jhMikeS | Yeah, you could say it's ordered. :) |
| 11:38:24 | | Quit woodensoul () |
| 11:38:41 | jhMikeS | how come avic_enable_int isn't called? |
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| 11:42:01 | Nico_P | maybe I'm confused but the interrupt vectors seem to go in the VECTOR0 to VECTOR63 regs |
| 11:44:29 | linuxstb | Nico_P: The diagram in section 9.4.3 of the reference manual (page 433) may help (and the whole of chapter 9) |
| 11:45:20 | GodEater_ | that's the section I quoted earlier... |
| 11:45:45 | Nico_P | linuxstb: yes, and fig 9-31 is what made me think what I said |
| 11:46:22 | Nico_P | don't we just need to init VECTORx with the address to an ISR and we're good? |
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| 11:46:49 | jhMikeS | the address of the handler, not those branch instructions I take it? |
| 11:47:37 | linuxstb | Yes, it looks like VECTORx is the address. |
| 11:47:39 | jhMikeS | looks like those ldr pc, ..blah.. should just be replaced |
| 11:47:46 | jhMikeS | or eliminated even |
| 11:48:08 | linuxstb | You still need those for the core ARM handlers (at address 0x0, or wherever that vector table has been remapped to) |
| 11:48:16 | jhMikeS | just copy a hardcoded table with 64 weak aliases and it should work |
| 11:48:31 | GodEater_ | is it just me, or does the manual not say where the table is ? |
| 11:48:41 | ewan_ko_08 | how do i reformat my sansa e260 if it says that it is write protected? |
| 11:48:51 | Bagder | ewan_ko_08: why do you try to reformat it and how? |
| 11:49:05 | ewan_ko_08 | cause it doesn't turn on anymore |
| 11:49:09 | Nico_P | GodEater_: 0x6800_0100 (VECTOR0)–0x6800_01FC (VECTOR63) |
| 11:49:16 | ewan_ko_08 | it displays load main image failed |
| 11:49:21 | Nico_P | section 9.2.3.14 |
| 11:49:23 | GodEater_ | Nico_P: ah thanks ;) |
| 11:49:40 | Bagder | ewan_ko_08: and how do you try to format it? |
| 11:49:45 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: You're talking about the vector_init() function in avic-imx31.c ? |
| 11:50:01 | ewan_ko_08 | through recovery mode |
| 11:50:30 | Bagder | ewan_ko_08: you put the magic file in there? |
| 11:50:44 | ewan_ko_08 | but i cannot copy the files because it says that it is write protected |
| 11:51:00 | Bagder | ewan_ko_08: but you get to see the 16MB "disk"? |
| 11:51:06 | ewan_ko_08 | Badger: yes |
| 11:51:16 | linuxstb | What is telling you it is write protected? |
| 11:51:24 | ewan_ko_08 | yes |
| 11:51:33 | jhMikeS | linuxstb: yeah, that's just to accomodate dynamic installation without changing the table |
| 11:51:45 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:52:06 | ewan_ko_08 | is there anyway i could fix this? |
| 11:52:17 | Bagder | ewan_ko_08: What is telling you it is write protected? |
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| 11:52:26 | ewan_ko_08 | Badger: yes |
| 11:52:35 | Bagder | yes is not an answer to that question |
| 11:52:58 | Bagder | What says write protected? |
| 11:53:09 | Bagder | how do you try to copy the file? |
| 11:53:20 | Nico_P | yeah, why are avic_init and vector_init never called? |
| 11:53:23 | ewan_ko_08 | Badger: when i try to copy the files an pop up message appears saying that the media is write protected |
| 11:53:35 | linuxstb | ewan_ko_08: Are you using Windows? |
| 11:53:38 | ewan_ko_08 | Badger: i tried drag and drop and also copy paste |
| 11:53:53 | ewan_ko_08 | linuxstb: yes |
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| 11:54:30 | Bagder | to me it sounds like the device is broken somehow |
| 11:55:02 | ewan_ko_08 | badger: but the computer can still recognize it when it is in recovery mode |
| 11:55:05 | linuxstb | ewan_ko_08: Can you try on a different computer, or with a different USB cable? |
| 11:55:28 | Bagder | ewan_ko_08: sure, the device is what prevents the writing, not the computer |
| 11:55:52 | Bagder | I've never seen anyone have this problem before |
| 11:56:05 | ewan_ko_08 | linuxstb: i don't have any other computer |
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| 11:57:49 | ewan_ko_08 | linuxstb: do you think the problem is with my computer? |
| 11:59:15 | pixelma | there was someone yesterday with the "load main image" problem on his e200 after installing rockbox and bootloader - he then tried at another computer (said "old laptop with USB 1.1") and got it working |
| 11:59:48 | ewan_ko_08 | pixelma: i actually never tried installing rockbox |
| 12:00 |
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| 12:02:14 | jhMikeS | personally I'd just use the same way as the F series (sans dispatch code) and copy the array to the avic table at startup |
| 12:02:31 | ewan_ko_08 | anyone who has another solution? |
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| 12:05:48 | advcomp2019 | ewan_ko_08, you might want to wait for a fix on your post on the abi forums |
| 12:06:09 | ewan_ko_08 | they keep giving me the same answer |
| 12:08:02 | advcomp2019 | ewan_ko_08, this is getting off topic so could you join #rockbox-community or #anythingbutipod |
| 12:09:17 | * | Nico_P is off to class |
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| 12:09:35 | barrywardell | Zagor: Is there more to using 64 byte packets than changing init_queue_heads()? |
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| 12:30:42 | | Join mrfree_ [0] (n=mrfree@host1-89-static.40-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:30:54 | mrfree_ | hi all |
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| 12:31:26 | mrfree_ | themes section on rockbox installer reports network problem. does it works? |
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| 12:32:38 | linuxstb | mrfree_: It works fine for me - can you access http://www.rockbox-themes.org in your browser? Do you have any firewall software running that may be preventing access? |
| 12:34:15 | DerPapst | or wrong configured proxy... (just a guess :P) |
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| 12:40:40 | mrfree_ | I've just installed rockbox so I have dowloaded all files all worked but themes |
| 12:40:44 | PaulJam | maybe the problem is that www.rockbox-themes.org seems to redirect to rockbox-themes.cleansoap.org and rbutil propably still tries to rach the old adress directly |
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| 12:50:52 | linuxstb | PaulJam: Yes, I've no idea what's going on there... |
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| 12:52:03 | Zagor | barrywardell: yes you need to change the descriptors in usb_core.c too |
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| 12:59:27 | preglow | linuxstb: dosn't really hurt much |
| 12:59:32 | preglow | so i guess we could |
| 12:59:43 | preglow | linuxstb: i guess i should make it write way first, though |
| 12:59:50 | preglow | s/way/wav/ |
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| 13:00 |
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| 13:04:38 | mrfree_ | does an ipod nano (1st) gen can record using headphones for example? |
| 13:04:40 | linuxstb | preglow: Will it compile with the libspeex.a used for rbspeexenc? |
| 13:04:58 | linuxstb | mrfree_: Not as far as we know. |
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| 13:05:33 | mrfree_ | linuxstb, k |
| 13:05:45 | preglow | linuxstb: sure |
| 13:10:38 | mrfree_ | if I try to start recording on my ipod nano then playback stop working and I need to restart the ipod |
| 13:10:41 | mrfree_ | is it normal? |
| 13:14:25 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:19:25 | preglow | linuxstb: i'll just add some quick wav writing here, and i'll commit it |
| 13:20:20 | linuxstb | mrfree_: No, but it's a known bug. |
| 13:21:16 | mrfree_ | linuxstb, k |
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| 13:38:04 | DerPapst | amiconn: you're here? |
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| 13:41:42 | preglow | linuxstb: should rbspeexdec be compiled by default? |
| 13:46:38 | GodEater_ | is there a good reason for not compiling it by default ? |
| 13:48:01 | preglow | well, yeah, most people should never need it |
| 13:48:09 | preglow | but if we don't compile it by default, most people might never see it either |
| 13:48:13 | linuxstb | I can't see any harm in compiling it - most of the work is compiling the lib |
| 13:48:35 | preglow | deed |
| 13:48:48 | preglow | tacking on some cheap wav stuff now |
| 14:00 |
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| 14:10:47 | preglow | linuxstb: aren't tools automatically rebuilt if deps change? |
| 14:11:08 | preglow | linuxstb: i just did a "make" in rbspeex/, and it just seemed to discover that all the files in codecs/libspeex/ had been touched |
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| 14:18:10 | linuxstb | preglow: Yes, a "make voice" or "make voicetools" should update the voice tools. |
| 14:20:22 | preglow | right, but not a regular make |
| 14:20:23 | preglow | makes sense |
| 14:20:33 | preglow | my brain might have intended that pun |
| 14:20:43 | preglow | but i refuse to take responsibility for it |
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| 14:25:53 | NHeal | kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
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| 14:42:47 | preglow | linuxstb: there |
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| 14:52:16 | linuxstb | preglow: Do you want to tell your friend on the mailing list? |
| 14:52:50 | * | linuxstb notices you already did... |
| 14:54:08 | linuxstb | What do people think of this patch? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7980 sdoyon seems keen on committing it. |
| 14:55:34 | petur | having an indication what the default is would be nice, but that wouldn't help people who use the voice interface |
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| 15:10:12 | * | preglow is reminded of rbutil... |
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| 15:14:12 | PaulJam | some forum guy around? |
| 15:14:28 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:14:34 | petur | ? |
| 15:14:49 | linuxstb | What kind of forum guy? |
| 15:15:47 | PaulJam | smeone who knows how i can correct the link in http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14046.0 |
| 15:16:59 | petur | like this? |
| 15:17:42 | linuxstb | Try surrounding it with [url][/url] |
| 15:17:57 | petur | seems to work without it too |
| 15:17:58 | PaulJam | thanks petur |
| 15:18:15 | * | linuxstb probably got there after petur... |
| 15:18:19 | petur | can't users edit their own posts? |
| 15:18:24 | linuxstb | What did you change? |
| 15:18:41 | petur | removed some [] that didn't belong there |
| 15:19:09 | PaulJam | petur: i didn't expect that the link works without the [] |
| 15:19:33 | petur | I've added them now anyway ;) |
| 15:21:02 | petur | PaulJam: if you're logged in, I would expect you to be able to modify your own posts |
| 15:21:08 | GodEater_ | yes - all users can |
| 15:21:22 | GodEater_ | otherwise it would be pointless us shouting at them about double posting ;) |
| 15:21:24 | preglow | linuxstb: can you think of any good reasons why a codec might want to alter the metadata struct? |
| 15:21:41 | * | petur sees PaulJam isn't logged in... |
| 15:22:38 | PaulJam | petur: yes, i can modify my own posts, it's just that i didn't think that the link would still work when removing the [] characters. |
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| 15:24:32 | linuxstb | preglow: Maybe some codecs don't have full metadata parsers in apps/metadata/, so the codec does it instead. |
| 15:24:44 | | Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 15:25:31 | preglow | linuxstb: yeah, but that's not a good reason |
| 15:25:57 | preglow | spc.c seems to duplicate most of it... |
| 15:26:14 | preglow | metadata/spc.c does most of it, then codecs/spc.c happily comes along and does it again |
| 15:26:16 | linuxstb | preglow: I agree, codecs should ignore the metadata. |
| 15:26:45 | linuxstb | Why are you asking? |
| 15:27:09 | preglow | didn't adam gashlin write the spc codec? i wonder why he's posting bugs for his own codec |
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| 15:27:20 | preglow | linuxstb: just because of the spc metadata bug that was posted today |
| 15:28:42 | Llorean | preglow: He maybe can't get to it right now? Having the bug in the tracker prevents someone else from reporting it again (in theory), lets it be known it's known about, and serves as a sticky-note reminder if you're busy at the time |
| 15:29:37 | preglow | maybe |
| 15:29:59 | preglow | he might also just not know how to fix it, but i put in a pointer |
| 15:30:20 | preglow | since the metadata is garbled two seconds before the end of the track, i almost assume it's got to be something the codec itself is doing to the metadata |
| 15:30:26 | preglow | since a new track starts decoding about at that time |
| 15:32:28 | linuxstb | Is this when an SPC track follows another SPC track? |
| 15:34:50 | linuxstb | preglow: Does it look like the codec is reading more metadata than metadata/spc.c does? |
| 15:37:39 | preglow | linuxstb: didn't have too close a look |
| 15:37:58 | preglow | linuxstb: i got that impression from the report, yes, regarding the sequence |
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| 15:44:36 | johnf1911 | question about "time remaining" |
| 15:44:46 | johnf1911 | does it build up some kind of battery history over time? |
| 15:44:55 | johnf1911 | it's estimates have been increasing since a fresh install / settings clear |
| 15:45:03 | johnf1911 | it started saying four fours |
| 15:45:13 | johnf1911 | now it says like, 9 hours when I go to shut down |
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| 15:51:30 | preglow | johnf1911: no battery history, afaik |
| 15:51:42 | preglow | i think the entire feature is useless, it depends on too many factors, at least on swcodec |
| 15:53:53 | linuxstb | I'm sure it could work nicely if someone put some effort into it... |
| 15:54:03 | markun | johnf1911: are you a programmer? |
| 15:54:23 | preglow | linuxstb: that certainly doesn't seem to happen |
| 15:54:29 | Zagor | hmm, my c200 bootloader says "model id: e200" after I reformatted the disk. |
| 15:54:49 | preglow | linuxstb: and it'll need recalibrating every once in a while |
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| 15:56:36 | johnf1911 | markun: Senior sys / net admin, but I can program too |
| 15:57:43 | linuxstb | Zagor: The Sansa or Rockbox bootloader? |
| 15:57:47 | Zagor | rockbox |
| 15:58:05 | Zagor | and now it takes a very long time to boot the OF |
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| 15:58:17 | johnf1911 | preglow: I like it myself, I know about the many limitations, but I've been using it for years, and know the meaning of the values (power up the estimate is low, power down estimate is fairly accurate based on session consumption) also, most of my files are my own rips, same quality / codec |
| 15:58:30 | johnf1911 | markun: were you going to link me to the source for that portion? |
| 15:59:07 | Zagor | someone with a c200 around? |
| 15:59:08 | linuxstb | Zagor: Hmm, IIUC that's read from from rockbox.mi4 file... |
| 15:59:34 | | Quit spence (Client Quit) |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:02 | linuxstb | Or maybe the original firmware MI4... |
| 16:00:14 | Zagor | linuxstb: yeah, it's OF mi4: /* Read mi4 header of the OF */ |
| 16:00:49 | | Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:00:52 | linuxstb | OK, that's a bug in sansapatcher - it's writing e200 there, regardless of whether it's a c200 or e200 |
| 16:01:32 | Zagor | ok |
| 16:01:40 | linuxstb | Line 595 of rbutil/sansapatcher/sansapatcher.c |
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| 16:05:01 | linuxstb | Zagor: Are you still trying to get large blocks working, or will you enable UMS with 64-byte transfers? |
| 16:05:28 | Zagor | i'm working on 64-byte transfers currently |
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| 16:05:59 | linuxstb | Do you know what speeds can be achieved? |
| 16:06:52 | Zagor | tests show around 1MB/s but those are raw transfers with very little processing. |
| 16:07:23 | Zagor | and no disk i/o. so basically I don't know :) |
| 16:07:44 | linuxstb | ;) Whatever it is, it's better than nothing which is what we have now... |
| 16:07:54 | Zagor | yeah |
| 16:08:25 | linuxstb | And it will be nice to be able to try and port it to the Gigabeat S - that MTP nonsense is getting annoying... |
| 16:09:00 | Zagor | I can imagine that. I gotta go, see you later. |
| 16:09:02 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 16:09:39 | markun | johnf1911: battery_time() in firmware/powermgmt.c |
| 16:09:56 | preglow | ot: threads in a linux process are supposed to share pids, yes? |
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| 16:14:54 | H10_007quick | barrywardell: a recent commit says they did something with the H10 button driver, Could you explain what it changed? or was there no functional change? |
| 16:15:11 | preglow | H10_007quick: just made it a bit safer |
| 16:15:31 | H10_007quick | so nothing functional? |
| 16:15:50 | H10_007quick | did it stabalize the readings anymore? |
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| 16:19:49 | markun | preglow: maybe the new rockbox voice files are what this guy is looking for: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.ogg.vorbis.devel/4495 |
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| 16:48:01 | johnf1911 | markun: thank you |
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| 16:48:50 | RaZorbacK | hi all, is there someone who could give me the right syntax to use with genlang to generate a file with marked strings for translation (###) |
| 16:49:45 | RaZorbacK | i think it's in the wiki but not way to find it |
| 16:50:42 | linuxstb | Have you seen this page? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LangFiles |
| 16:51:10 | RaZorbacK | argg how do you do to find what you want so wuickly :( |
| 16:51:12 | RaZorbacK | thx |
| 16:51:27 | linuxstb | Google for site:www.rockbox.org/twiki genlang |
| 16:51:48 | RaZorbacK | linuxstb: good tip, thx ! |
| 16:52:14 | linuxstb | Searching the wiki for "genlang" would also have found it - click on "search" at the top of any wiki page. |
| 16:52:53 | RaZorbacK | i've tried .... ok though :) |
| 16:53:28 | linuxstb | Did you use the Search feature, or type something into the "Go" box - it's confusing... |
| 16:53:44 | RaZorbacK | in the go box ... |
| 16:54:13 | linuxstb | The Go box is for entering the name of a wiki page - e.g. LangFiles |
| 16:54:44 | RaZorbacK | we have to know the wikiword |
| 16:55:07 | RaZorbacK | so we have to use the other search box |
| 16:55:09 | RaZorbacK | ok |
| 16:55:14 | RaZorbacK | good to know |
| 16:55:21 | RaZorbacK | thx for your time linuxstb |
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| 17:07:47 | lostlogic | Nico_P: thanks. |
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| 17:07:57 | Nico_P | :) |
| 17:08:10 | lostlogic | I was sad to see how much binary size it cost, but it works nicely. |
| 17:08:54 | Nico_P | ah yes, I hadn't seen... no problem though |
| 17:09:17 | Nico_P | funny how the nano and the mini got much more than the others |
| 17:09:33 | lostlogic | yeah and H10, must have to do with a missing feature of that PP variant? |
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| 17:11:29 | linuxstb | lostlogic: Am I right in thinking that you load the entire file into RAM, then (after the file has been completely loaded) use the metadata parser to strip the tags? |
| 17:12:12 | Nico_P | linuxstb: yes |
| 17:12:41 | Nico_P | linuxstb: only the trailing tags are stripped that way though* |
| 17:12:47 | lostlogic | linuxstb: yeah, not necessarily the whole file is in RAM at that time though −− some of it may have been shrunk-off if it's longer than the buffer or such |
| 17:13:25 | lostlogic | just whenever a file finishes buffering it gets it's ape/id3v1 tags cut off the end |
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| 17:14:03 | _jz | Hello ! |
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| 17:14:20 | _jz | Is there a known problem in the recent builds, with Sansa E200 and MicroSD ? |
| 17:14:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:14:53 | _jz | Since a few builds, the presence of a micro-SD makes everything very slow, and when I get to read something from the SD it keeps skipping and acting like very hogged |
| 17:15:06 | _jz | though when i get to read something from internal memory it's almost OK |
| 17:15:11 | lostlogic | Nico_P: does it make sense to add: if (h == cur_handle) { buf_widx = h->widx; } to bufcuttail? |
| 17:15:12 | barrywardell | lostlogic, Nico_P: the binsize difference is because of RAM usage - the ones with the big bin change have a 2048 byte RAM increase |
| 17:16:23 | linuxstb | _jz: Have you tried reinstalling an older build? If so, does the problem go away? |
| 17:16:38 | lostlogic | barrywardell: is RAM size specific to buffers or is it including code? I thought it included code |
| 17:17:02 | _jz | linuxstb: i was asking if the problem was known before trying to do so |
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| 17:17:31 | Nico_P | lostlogic: it does... it's not a problem if it's not there and it probably won't bring a hug benefit, but it probably should be there |
| 17:17:54 | _jz | linuxstb: i'll try the daily first... |
| 17:18:03 | barrywardell | lostlogic: I'm not sure, but maybe it's to do with something that's aligned to 2k boundary not quite fitting? |
| 17:18:04 | lostlogic | Nico_P: that's what I thought |
| 17:18:16 | linuxstb | _jz: I don't think it's known, but I may have missed someone mention it... Have you looked in the forums and/or flyspray for similar reports? |
| 17:18:29 | _jz | nope |
| 17:18:33 | _jz | i didn't have much time lately |
| 17:19:03 | lostlogic | barrywardell: The only buffers I added to the code are "TAG" and "APETAGX" so I doubt that −− I think it has more to do with a series of array-dereference-shifts involved in ape tag parsing |
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| 17:20:44 | barrywardell | lostlogic: I mean maybe something unrelated to the commit. some other buffer somewhere. maybe not but just a thought |
| 17:21:14 | _jz | other weird problem : |
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| 17:21:49 | _jz | for a few times, each time I reboot i'm on the same track (from internal memory), with "play" on, 0:00, ??? ?bps, and all seems frozen |
| 17:21:58 | _jz | only solution for now: reboot using crappy OF :( |
| 17:22:00 | krick | lostlogic: why do you make an element wise comparisom and don't use memcmp? (I mean when stripping the tail tags.) |
| 17:22:23 | _jz | needs 10sec to shutdown, any other button is unresponsive |
| 17:22:25 | _jz | any idea ? |
| 17:22:26 | linuxstb | lostlogic: There should already be functions to safely get 32-bit little-endian integers from the buffer - see metadata_common.[ch] |
| 17:22:28 | lostlogic | krick: dunno −− I just copied the code from the old version |
| 17:22:45 | lostlogic | I'll change both of those and it should reclaim some code size. thanks guys. |
| 17:22:57 | linuxstb | lostlogic: Looking at them, they should be using uint32_t, rather than long though... |
| 17:23:11 | lostlogic | aye |
| 17:23:20 | linuxstb | I guess that would cause problems on 64-bit? |
| 17:23:34 | lostlogic | depends what you eventually use them for right? |
| 17:23:46 | linuxstb | Yes.... |
| 17:24:08 | linuxstb | And possibly if they're meant to be signed or unsigned. |
| 17:24:37 | | Quit krick (Client Quit) |
| 17:26:43 | lostlogic | well in my case, I just use them as simple signed numbers that are likely to be in the range representable by a short ;) |
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| 17:34:27 | linuxstb | lostlogic: Thinking about your commit, I'm not sure that changing id3->filesize at a random point during the track's lifetime is a good idea - codecs often use that value for things. e.g. the NSF codec will fail with an error if it can't read filesize bytes, and other codecs use it for the upper-bound for seeking... |
| 17:34:57 | preglow | ouch |
| 17:34:59 | preglow | that does sound nasty indeed |
| 17:36:19 | | Quit atsea- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:36:47 | lostlogic | linuxstb: any codec that would depend on the filesize should also be incompatible with trailing tags, if I understand correctly. |
| 17:37:22 | lostlogic | (moreover, we did this pre-MoB to strip these tags too, with the same potential side effect ;)) |
| 17:41:15 | linuxstb | Yes, but codecs might read ci->id3->filesize during initialisation, and then later find it's wrong. So the fix is not helping them... |
| 17:42:00 | linuxstb | Wouldn't it be simpler (even though it's slightly less efficient) to just check for trailing tags before buffering the file? |
| 17:42:53 | lostlogic | amiconn repeatedly vetoed that *shrug* I have no love of doing it this way, but it works for the test case I was provided and nearly precisely duplicates the pre-MoB functionality |
| 17:42:55 | linuxstb | That would also mean you could actually use the tags - e.g. support APE in MP3, which is very often asked for (even though many devs don't like the idea). |
| 17:43:39 | linuxstb | I'm just wondering exactly how expensive one extra seek/read per mp3 file will be. |
| 17:43:47 | preglow | not very... |
| 17:44:06 | preglow | i think i'd prefer that, it's way less hacky |
| 17:44:23 | linuxstb | It also removes those two new functions from the buffering API... |
| 17:44:40 | markun | linuxstb: what was amiconn's reason against it? |
| 17:44:43 | preglow | what does the newly commited way do? remove them when reading the last chunks? |
| 17:45:03 | lostlogic | preglow: when a file finishes buffering it calls a callback which strips the tags from the just-finished handle |
| 17:45:10 | preglow | then change filesize? that's nasty |
| 17:45:19 | lostlogic | and yes, it then changes the filesize |
| 17:45:31 | Slasheri | hmm, sounds very bad.. |
| 17:45:32 | preglow | is there any reason codecs need to know filesize, btw? |
| 17:45:45 | linuxstb | markun: IIRC, the fact that an extra seek/read is needed... Hopefully he'll correct me if there was more. |
| 17:46:13 | lostlogic | Slasheri: this is exactly what the playback engine pre-MoB did. |
| 17:46:26 | preglow | it is? |
| 17:46:29 | lostlogic | (only it wasn't a callback, it was coded into playback.c) |
| 17:46:30 | lostlogic | yes. |
| 17:46:43 | linuxstb | preglow: Some use them for seeking. Some read the whole file into a local buffer. |
| 17:46:47 | lostlogic | the sequence of events is identical |
| 17:46:50 | preglow | incløuding changing filesize? |
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| 17:47:01 | lostlogic | yes |
| 17:47:05 | preglow | well, shrug |
| 17:47:17 | preglow | then no further harm is done, at least |
| 17:47:20 | linuxstb | We don't want to duplicate everything the old playback engine did though... |
| 17:47:23 | lostlogic | tracks[track_widx].filesize -= len; |
| 17:47:25 | preglow | we could instate some kind of policy on filesize usage |
| 17:47:27 | lostlogic | was the LOC |
| 17:47:34 | preglow | like, only depend on during init |
| 17:47:44 | preglow | and then be aware it might be wrong compared to what you'll get... |
| 17:47:45 | _jz | linuxstb: yes it works with an old rockbox build ! |
| 17:48:38 | linuxstb | I still think it would be cleaner and simpler to just check it before buffering though, with the advantage that you could use the tags. |
| 17:50:05 | lostlogic | well now that the code for stripping them is over in metadata.c it should be somewhat easier to do that ;) |
| 17:50:13 | * | lostlogic hides (goes to work) |
| 17:50:46 | linuxstb | But that's relying on the buffering API - the metadata parsers work directly on the files. |
| 17:51:16 | Nico_P | linuxstb: it would be simpler if the metadata parser did all the work |
| 17:52:41 | linuxstb | _jz: Can you identify the last daily build which worked? |
| 17:54:05 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I'm not against it, as it seems the more logical approach. But it depends what others think. |
| 17:54:23 | Nico_P | of course |
| 17:54:31 | * | lostlogic is strictly neutral, but has no inclination to reimplement it |
| 17:56:40 | _jz | linuxstb: no I can't. i took an old one stored on my laptop |
| 17:56:56 | _jz | linuxstb: i'd say roughly between 3 and 6 weeks |
| 17:57:24 | _jz | i'll stick to that old version for some time i think... |
| 18:00 |
| 18:02:22 | _jz | linuxstb: a quick search in the forum doesn't bring any result |
| 18:02:34 | _jz | i'll look in flyspray |
| 18:02:43 | RonOverdrive | hi I was wondering if someone can help me with my 30gig 5.5gen ipod video? I just bought it and installed Rockbox on it without issue, but for some reason I have a hard time syncing it up. In Rockbox mode the ipod crashes within a few seconds and in Apple mode after a few hundred songs it locks up |
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| 18:03:55 | _jz | linuxstb: maybe this one is related : http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8198?histring=E200 |
| 18:04:05 | | Join webguest72 [0] (i=4f447077@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-749e767f455bc291) |
| 18:04:46 | _jz | well i didin't know if my problem was database related but the wier filebrowser bein stuck is there too |
| 18:04:55 | RonOverdrive | also does anyone know a program in Linux that will reconize that I have Rockbox installed to synce formats other then MP3 and AAC? |
| 18:06:42 | webguest72 | _jz I had very similar problems after updating a fer weeks back. sluggish loading of tracks & skipping audio. A complete removal of Rockbox & Bootloader & reinstall sorted it. |
| 18:07:13 | _jz | so maybe it's just when upgrading rockbox ? |
| 18:07:31 | _jz | now I wiped out rockbox (lost my customized theme and settings, what a jerk ;) and put that old rocbox and it works... |
| 18:07:53 | _jz | maybe i'll try putting the most recent update fresh on top of it (backuping it first now ;) |
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| 18:20:00 | RonOverdrive | anyone? |
| 18:20:57 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 18:21:29 | DerPapst | RonOverdrive: iirc there was an attemp to manage rockboxed ipods with amarok |
| 18:22:06 | DerPapst | but i don't know if the patch ever made it into the main branch of amarok |
| 18:23:21 | RonOverdrive | no it hasn't, because I'm using the main branch |
| 18:23:29 | RonOverdrive | but what about my other problem? |
| 18:24:56 | Llorean | RonOverdrive: There is no "Rockbox" mode while syncing on iPods |
| 18:25:09 | Llorean | Both are Apple USB modes, so if you're having any problems in USB mode, there's something wrong with your iPod, or the apple firmware |
| 18:26:20 | amiconn | markun, lostlogic: The reason for not checking trailing tags before buffering is the nasty seek involved |
| 18:26:58 | preglow | and changing "ci->filesize" during the lifetime of the track is any less nasty??? |
| 18:27:10 | markun | amiconn: nasty in what way? |
| 18:27:12 | RonOverdrive | is there a way I can re-install the apple firmware in case something went wrong with the update? |
| 18:27:16 | preglow | markun: nasty in being slow |
| 18:27:19 | amiconn | A seek is somewhat costly |
| 18:27:50 | preglow | amiconn: metadata handlers seek around like mad anyway |
| 18:27:57 | preglow | one more seek isn't going to matter much |
| 18:28:15 | amiconn | That is, if that seek needs to happen anyway because there is no id3v1 tag, the metadata reader could mark the trailing tag for removal. But if there is an id3v2 tag, it doesn't, and shouldn't, check for trailing tags |
| 18:28:41 | amiconn | preglow: The mp3 metadata reader does *not* seek to the end if it finds an id3v2 tag |
| 18:29:20 | pixelma | markun: do you know any tips and tricks to make espeak+mbrola output less noisy? Lame isn't that good in compressing it and so the voice file ends up too big for my Ondio (testing swedish, the mp3 voice file for Ondio is twice the size of the speex voice file for my c200 using the default settings, can't use it this way...) :\ |
| 18:29:39 | Slasheri | amiconn: how costly one seek is, does it take for example more than 0.5s to seek end of a 200MB file? |
| 18:29:51 | preglow | me brb |
| 18:29:54 | Slasheri | if not, i don't think that matters when buffering |
| 18:30:25 | amiconn | Depends on the target, I think |
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| 18:32:10 | markun | pixelma: no, sorry |
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| 18:33:12 | markun | maybe you can filter noise with a tool like sox |
| 18:36:27 | pixelma | hmm, ok. Thanks anyway. |
| 18:38:32 | RonOverdrive | question, will updating the firmware remove the ipodbootloader? |
| 18:40:27 | markun | pixelma: do you like the quality otherwise? |
| 18:41:13 | linuxstb | RonOverdrive: Updating the Apple firmware will remove the Rockbox bootloader, if that's what you're asking. |
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| 18:44:36 | scorche|w | DerPapst: actually, i think i talked about that a bit with the person from amarok at google...dont quite recall the results though... |
| 18:45:39 | pixelma | markun: yes, pronounciation sound quite ok to my "foreign" ears overall, this noise is a bit disturbing. Listening to some samples I got the impression that swedish is even better than some english voices by them. |
| 18:48:01 | pixelma | mbrola really makes a difference with regards to sounding "robotic" |
| 18:51:11 | DerPapst | scorche|w: heh... |
| 18:52:33 | DerPapst | but i don't think i would use some music management tool to sync my music for rockbox |
| 18:52:40 | scorche|w | you want me to ask him about it? |
| 18:52:46 | scorche|w | ah...alright :) |
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| 18:53:37 | DerPapst | because i don't think amarok would build the database when transferring files |
| 18:54:07 | Nico_P | linuxstb: I'm having trouble getting avic-imx31 to link... it says "undefined reference to `_avicstart" in avic_init. I've been trying to make it work but haven't managed, and I don't quite understand the intent of the asm line... do you think you could have a quick look? |
| 18:54:10 | scorche|w | from what i do remember, they have gotten tons of requests for a plugin that will do that |
| 18:55:22 | DerPapst | imo such a thing would only be usable if it builds the database while transferring files so that one doesn't have to do it on the targed. otherwise it's kinda useless |
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| 18:57:04 | webguest66 | hey folks |
| 18:57:11 | Tuplanolla | hello |
| 18:57:45 | webguest66 | glad to have found rockbox - but have it all set up and now can only access database - but no files are in my file list, no vids or no music - just blank...................? |
| 18:58:13 | karashata | try setting your file view to all instead of supported |
| 18:58:22 | karashata | the folder your music is stored in is probably hidden |
| 18:58:35 | webguest66 | i'll give it a shot |
| 18:59:20 | webguest66 | the thing is i can see it in the database view |
| 18:59:58 | karashata | hmm, what DAP are you using? |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:00 | | Quit RonOverdrive ("Leaving") |
| 19:00:11 | Llorean | The database will happily index hidden files.. |
| 19:00:57 | webguest66 | hmmm |
| 19:00:58 | webguest66 | still nothing |
| 19:01:07 | webguest66 | sorry, what's a DAP? |
| 19:01:16 | karashata | digital audio player |
| 19:01:26 | karashata | mp3 player, basically |
| 19:01:41 | webguest66 | oh |
| 19:01:48 | webguest66 | ipod vid 5gen |
| 19:01:49 | nanok | sansa, i would guess |
| 19:01:52 | nanok | ahm |
| 19:01:53 | nanok | :) |
| 19:02:10 | karashata | ahh, the music was loaded onto it with iTunes, no doubt |
| 19:02:16 | webguest66 | ya |
| 19:02:38 | webguest66 | just got it all moved into the database - that works well |
| 19:02:42 | karashata | which means your best bet, unless you want to reload your music onto it via drag-and-drop, is to use the database |
| 19:02:54 | karashata | since iTunes manages files strangely |
| 19:02:55 | webguest66 | hmmm |
| 19:02:58 | webguest66 | ok |
| 19:03:04 | webguest66 | ya that's why i'm glad to be done with it |
| 19:03:36 | webguest66 | so, anything i load on there via drag and drop will likely show up in the file view?\ |
| 19:03:47 | karashata | it should, yes |
| 19:03:58 | webguest66 | makes sense - thnx a lot |
| 19:04:03 | karashata | np |
| 19:07:23 | | Join webguest55 [0] (i=3b5c974a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e0655440e9d43110) |
| 19:08:07 | webguest55 | I get this message when try rockboxui.exe |
| 19:08:08 | webguest55 | No filesystem found. Have you forgotten to create it? |
| 19:08:23 | webguest55 | how do I create the file system? |
| 19:08:43 | DerPapst | make install? |
| 19:09:21 | linuxstb | webguest55: Did you download rockboxui.exe or compile it yourself? |
| 19:10:47 | webguest55 | I compiled it myself |
| 19:11:09 | webguest55 | and then copied to the players root directory |
| 19:11:15 | linuxstb | Then type what DerPapst said - "make install" |
| 19:11:19 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 19:11:34 | linuxstb | Why did you copy it? You're meant to run it from where it's created. |
| 19:11:35 | rasher | webguest55: it won't work with the player's root directory at all |
| 19:11:56 | rasher | Well, some parts will, but lots of things will break. |
| 19:12:17 | DerPapst | you build it in ./rockbox/build and you're supposed to run rockboxui.exe from there |
| 19:12:46 | webguest55 | you mean .rockbox/build |
| 19:13:11 | DerPapst | but you have to "make install" first so that all plugins and codecs are copied to the correct location in ./rockbox/build/archos/.rockbox |
| 19:13:38 | | Join elinenbe [0] (n=elinenbe@209.196.192.8) |
| 19:13:56 | webguest55 | yes I did this and then it created a rockbox.zip and the rockboxui.exe |
| 19:14:08 | DerPapst | ./ refers in my example to the directory where you downloaded the rockbox source code to |
| 19:14:30 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:15:01 | linuxstb | webguest55: Do you have the "unzip" program installed? Just type "unzip" in the terminal to test. |
| 19:15:08 | webguest55 | I then extracted the rockbox.zip into the players root folder along with the rockboxui.exe |
| 19:15:25 | DerPapst | so in cygwin in ./rockbox/build type "make install" and then "./rockboxui.exe −−background" |
| 19:15:58 | linuxstb | webguest55: The UI sim doesn't need to go anywhere near your device - it's independent (and will conflict with the real Rockbox install on your device). |
| 19:15:59 | DerPapst | you don't use the sim on your player at all |
| 19:16:01 | pixelma | I'm completely confused - what do you want to compile: a simulator or a target build? |
| 19:18:09 | Nico_P | linuxstb: any chance you could help me out with that small bit of asm? |
| 19:18:23 | DerPapst | simulator is the thing that runs on your pc and target build is (obviously) the thing that runs on your DAP |
| 19:18:35 | | Join l7 [0] (n=l7@evil-wire.org) |
| 19:18:55 | webguest55 | a simulator, my player does not have a screen so I'm trying to use this software to see if I can play the songs through this ui |
| 19:19:29 | DerPapst | what player do you have? |
| 19:20:06 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I'm not very good with inline assembler... My guess would be that that's code from Linux which hasn't been fully ported to Rockbox. |
| 19:20:15 | webguest55 | it looks like a shuffle but its a fake |
| 19:20:49 | Nico_P | hmm... I've looked at gcc asm docs and still can't figure out how to write it properly |
| 19:20:57 | karashata | webguest55: it's an unsupported player, you won't be able to run rockbox on it |
| 19:21:11 | karashata | the players you can use rockbox on are listed on the front page of the site |
| 19:21:25 | | Join Chronon [0] (i=vircuser@d23-104.uoregon.edu) |
| 19:21:29 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Can you find where _avicstart is defined? |
| 19:22:03 | Nico_P | my guess is that it's supposed to the the avicstart int that is declared just above |
| 19:22:44 | preglow | i'm decent at inline asm |
| 19:23:16 | linuxstb | preglow: target/arm/imx31/gigabeat-s/avic-imx31.c - look for avicstart |
| 19:23:20 | Nico_P | preglow: then maybe you could help me with avic-imx31.c... the asm in avic_init is wrong |
| 19:23:47 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I don't think the asm is wrong, it's just that it's referring to a symbol not defined in Rockbox... |
| 19:23:47 | Nico_P | "undefined reference to `_avicstart" |
| 19:24:21 | preglow | ehh |
| 19:24:34 | Nico_P | it still fails if I add _avicstart as an int above |
| 19:24:44 | preglow | and _avicstart is what? a global symbol? |
| 19:24:58 | linuxstb | It doesn't appear to be defined anywhere in Rockbox... |
| 19:25:06 | preglow | then what exactly are you trying to do? |
| 19:25:15 | Nico_P | no idea, but isn't an _ in inline asm a possible optional prefix for a C var? |
| 19:25:53 | | Join Rincewind [0] (i=rHIQICrX@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 19:26:00 | preglow | depends on the platform |
| 19:26:07 | preglow | but what are you trying to do? |
| 19:26:19 | linuxstb | As I said, I think this is just a work-in-progress port from Linux... We probably don't need that as a symbol - we can just use a #define to the address of the AVIC vectors. |
| 19:26:23 | Nico_P | preglow: I'm not sure really, I guess trying to read a reg val into a C var |
| 19:26:54 | bertrik | I guess it tries to read the address of an external asm function into a C var |
| 19:27:15 | preglow | someone send me a gigabeat s, please :> |
| 19:28:25 | Nico_P | preglow: ask toffe82 :) |
| 19:28:34 | preglow | Nico_P: that line, as it stands, loads the symbol _avicstart into the variable avicstart |
| 19:28:44 | preglow | but if you don't know what _avicstart is... |
| 19:29:31 | | Quit J3TC- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:29:45 | | Join male [0] (n=male@adsl-4-201-83.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:29:45 | Nico_P | preglow: what kind of symbol is _avicstart then? |
| 19:29:54 | preglow | why don't you just do it from scratch instead of using some code you don't know what is? |
| 19:30:01 | preglow | Nico_P: i have no idea |
| 19:30:02 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@wlrsvd-168.njit.edu) |
| 19:30:09 | preglow | it's an address to something, but god knows what |
| 19:30:25 | Nico_P | preglow: ok... at first I simply wanted to try that code out |
| 19:30:30 | bertrik | I guess it's a label for the first entry in the vic table |
| 19:30:39 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:30:54 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:30:55 | preglow | why in the world use inline asm for that simple thing? just so they can alias a variable name? |
| 19:31:10 | Nico_P | I was going to ask the same question |
| 19:31:13 | bertrik | preglow: my thoughts exactly |
| 19:31:30 | | Quit hcs (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 19:31:44 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 19:32:38 | preglow | hcs: there? |
| 19:33:15 | hcs | preglow: yeah, and I saw your note, I suck |
| 19:33:34 | Nico_P | I'll try to understand that code better globally and then maybe I'll be able to make it simpler and correct it |
| 19:34:42 | Nico_P | preglow: to answer your question, I don't just do it from scratch because I wouldn't know where to start. I'm very inexperienced in low level stuff |
| 19:36:24 | preglow | Nico_P: what other people are porting? |
| 19:36:28 | preglow | hcs: you tried to remove it? |
| 19:36:45 | Nico_P | preglow: aliask and linuxstb. jhMikeS is getting one |
| 19:36:58 | preglow | ok, then you'll have a low-level guy onboard soon :> |
| 19:37:09 | Nico_P | there is ptw419 too but he's not around often |
| 19:37:12 | hcs | preglow: not yet, will do in a few minutes |
| 19:37:15 | | Quit _jz (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 19:37:21 | preglow | hcs: not guranteed to be the reason, but it's bad anyway |
| 19:37:33 | preglow | hcs: the entire "two seconds before track change" deal kind of makes it sound like the reason, though |
| 19:38:37 | | Join _jz [0] (n=jz@ns1.april.org) |
| 19:39:11 | | Quit webguest55 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 19:41:01 | preglow | Slasheri: is there any reason why dircache should just disable itself? |
| 19:41:12 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF576D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:41:46 | | Join Frazz [0] (n=Fraser@thelawsons.plus.com) |
| 19:41:54 | preglow | Slasheri: suddenly the debug screen says it's not initialized, and the last used size isn't even _near_ the limit |
| 19:42:52 | preglow | anyone know why the status bar is so slow in appearing in newer builds? |
| 19:44:09 | Llorean | preglow: I asked about that recently but nobody even replied at the time. It's been happening for a few weeks now, I think. |
| 19:44:39 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 19:46:38 | preglow | Llorean: it has indeed, and it's pissing me off |
| 19:46:50 | preglow | the player is unresponsive while it's not there too |
| 19:47:02 | preglow | i can't believe noone has noticed it |
| 19:47:21 | linuxstb | Is this just the Nano, or all targets? |
| 19:47:22 | Llorean | What player are you using? |
| 19:47:26 | preglow | h120 |
| 19:47:26 | Llorean | linuxstb: Gigabeat F too |
| 19:47:31 | preglow | can't say i've noticed it on nano |
| 19:47:36 | amiconn | Hmm, now that you mention it, I noticed that |
| 19:47:48 | Llorean | It's especially noticeable if your backdrop contrasts with your set background color, because you get a "background color" line at the top until the status bar fills in |
| 19:47:54 | amiconn | Didn't annoy me so far, hence forgot again |
| 19:48:51 | amiconn | Seems swcodec specific though |
| 19:49:10 | PaulJam | i have seen the dircache disabling itself occassionally too, but never found a way to reproduce, and it didn't happen often. |
| 19:49:12 | preglow | just tried nano, doesn't happen there |
| 19:49:24 | Slasheri | preglow: if dircache founds an internal problem, it disables itself |
| 19:49:37 | Slasheri | that will be logfd |
| 19:49:41 | Llorean | preglow: Could it be either some sort of setting, or some how tying into the presence of a disk then? |
| 19:49:48 | preglow | perhaps i should run a logf build, then |
| 19:49:57 | preglow | Llorean: i have no idea, i haven't touched my settings |
| 19:50:19 | preglow | Slasheri: btw, still no idea about why foreground scans happen so often? |
| 19:50:39 | nanok | preglow: a quick receipe to reproduce? i could try on my sansa (haven;t noticed it so far) |
| 19:50:41 | Slasheri | hmm, nope.. i haven't experienced that |
| 19:50:43 | * | amiconn never sees foreground scans without reason |
| 19:50:49 | preglow | amiconn: i see them all the time |
| 19:51:11 | preglow | i think there's a bug filed |
| 19:51:20 | preglow | nanok: reprouce what? statusbar? dircache? |
| 19:51:21 | amiconn | I see foreground scans happen sometimes, but there's always a reason. Mostly hard reset before |
| 19:51:28 | preglow | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7253 |
| 19:51:31 | nanok | preglow: status bar, sorry |
| 19:51:37 | preglow | nanok: i just switch mine on |
| 19:51:40 | Slasheri | preglow: if dircache fails runtime, then next boot might cause a foreground scan |
| 19:51:45 | nanok | you allready said dircache you don;t know yet how to reproduce |
| 19:51:55 | nanok | damn ; |
| 19:51:59 | preglow | nanok: but no, i can't remember having done anything to provoke it |
| 19:52:19 | nanok | preglow: okay, so just turn on.. let's see |
| 19:52:35 | * | amiconn has a suspicion |
| 19:52:41 | preglow | amiconn: backlight bug posted, might that be resulting from your stuff? isn't too specific... |
| 19:53:06 | amiconn | What backlight bug? |
| 19:53:26 | nanok | nope. 4 seocnds or so to boot, responsive right away, nothing wrong visible. but i am using a plain text wps, don't know if that matters?.. |
| 19:53:31 | * | DerPapst had a backlight bug too |
| 19:53:39 | Llorean | amiconn: There's some sort of bug relating to the backlight timout |
| 19:53:56 | preglow | amiconn: just posted in the tracker |
| 19:53:59 | Llorean | After the first backlight timeout on boot, it "stays off" until the user goes to the menu and sets a new timeout. |
| 19:54:04 | preglow | i just assume you're all on the bugtracker ml |
| 19:54:06 | Llorean | Then everything goes back to normal, and stays normal |
| 19:54:09 | amiconn | Probably the fade-in/fade-out times. Readjust them, |
| 19:54:11 | DerPapst | if you enable fade in and fade out it might happen that it stays off or on |
| 19:54:17 | Llorean | preglow: RSS feed here. :) But same diff |
| 19:54:38 | amiconn | preglow: I'm not on the bugtracker ml. Never were. |
| 19:54:59 | preglow | Llorean: prefer ml, that way i can keep bugs/features i care about hanging around until i resolve them/i have them resolved :) |
| 19:55:01 | | Join Redbreva_ [0] (n=Miranda@host86-144-108-57.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:55:15 | preglow | amiconn: 8245, then |
| 19:56:04 | | Quit webguest66 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 19:56:18 | nanok | Llorean: speaking of reboot when usb plugged on sansa: it does try to do it, just checked now, but it only crashes the player. i will update right away and test again |
| 19:56:44 | nanok | charging also doesn't seem to really work |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:22 | nanok | Llorean: reboot works fine it seems with the current build. but i only tested once |
| 20:01:01 | | Quit Redbreva ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 20:01:04 | * | preglow thinks all developers should be on the flyspray ml |
| 20:01:32 | | Nick Redbreva_ is now known as Redbreva (n=Miranda@host86-144-108-57.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:01:58 | amiconn | Looks like the delayed status bar happens when 3 conditions match: |
| 20:02:43 | amiconn | (1) Voicing of directories is enabled. (2) Directory talk clips are enabled. (3) File type announcement is enabled |
| 20:03:01 | preglow | none of them are enabled here |
| 20:03:05 | preglow | i've got a voice file, but that's it |
| 20:03:13 | amiconn | That is, if there is any directory in the list so the cursor starts on a directory in the browser |
| 20:03:24 | preglow | that it does |
| 20:03:58 | | Quit zicho (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:04:26 | amiconn | I tested on G5.5. If any of the mentioned conditions isn't met, the status bar is (nearly) instantaneous |
| 20:04:34 | | Join zicho [0] (n=martin@c-5f9fe355.68-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:06:30 | preglow | well, like i said, i only have a voice file, that's that |
| 20:06:43 | | Join moos [0] (i=moos@m236.net81-66-159.noos.fr) |
| 20:07:15 | preglow | absolutely all voice related options are off, but like i've said before, that hasn't prevented me from having rockbox speak from time to time... |
| 20:08:00 | amiconn | eh? |
| 20:08:14 | | Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 20:08:36 | preglow | a week ago rockbox played a voice clip even though i had all voice stuff disabled |
| 20:08:40 | amiconn | Btw, I have no idea about the backlight bug. Never seen this here. A recipe to reproduce would be helpful... |
| 20:08:40 | preglow | i checked directly afterwards |
| 20:08:41 | pondlife | preglow: Did it call you Dave? |
| 20:08:45 | preglow | pondlife: roger |
| 20:09:12 | * | pondlife would really like a HAL-9000 english.voice.. |
| 20:09:33 | preglow | amiconn: it's probably an effect of a playback related bug, though, there has been some glitchiness around track changed since mob was introduced |
| 20:09:47 | preglow | i've had codecs crash, dircache disable itself, wrong files get played |
| 20:10:14 | amiconn | odd |
| 20:11:11 | | Quit japc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:12:56 | preglow | amiconn: removed voice file, status bar is still slow |
| 20:13:36 | amiconn | pondlife: Btw, I re-checked what is wrong with the L&H SAPI5 voices here |
| 20:14:05 | amiconn | They work for admins, but not for restricted users |
| 20:14:44 | pondlife | Weird |
| 20:15:00 | pondlife | But this doesn't apply to the MS voices? |
| 20:15:10 | pondlife | The MS Reader installer must be borked |
| 20:15:11 | amiconn | No, and not to my AT&T voices either |
| 20:15:24 | | Quit LycoLoco (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:15:48 | | Quit J3TC- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:16:04 | preglow | Nico_P: btw, working any more on completing cuesheet conversion to mob? |
| 20:16:22 | amiconn | I get "This voice cannot be played. Please try selecting another voice or selecting a different audio output device" when I try to select an L&H voice as user in the speech panel |
| 20:16:26 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@wlrsvd-168.njit.edu) |
| 20:16:30 | Nico_P | preglow: I've started, but not worked on it for a few days |
| 20:16:39 | amiconn | All other SAPI5 voices work |
| 20:16:42 | preglow | Nico_P: ok, good to know you're on it anyway |
| 20:17:22 | | Quit zicho (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:17:32 | | Join zicho [0] (n=martin@c-5f9fe355.68-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:19:55 | preglow | btw, am i the only one that finds the "backlight on hold" setting silly? |
| 20:20:04 | hcs | preglow: crap, I don't have the sansa cable on me |
| 20:20:39 | hcs | preglow: not really, if you want the backlight on all the time except when you're not doing anything |
| 20:22:20 | preglow | why would i want backlight always on just because my hold switch is on? |
| 20:22:21 | preglow | i don't get it |
| 20:22:44 | amiconn | The 'always on' setting is probably superfluous |
| 20:22:49 | hcs | oh, that particular setting |
| 20:23:09 | amiconn | The other variants are somewhat useful |
| 20:23:37 | preglow | amiconn: what about always off? why do we need that? so you can save battery by disabling the backlight at once when you switch hold on? |
| 20:23:44 | preglow | i think that setting is a waste of space |
| 20:23:58 | preglow | it does nothing very usable |
| 20:24:30 | | Quit obo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:24:33 | | Quit axionix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:25:20 | bertrik | well, what about the upside down function then? It's a nice hack, but totally useless IMO. |
| 20:25:21 | | Join axionix [0] (n=axion@cpe-74-70-239-192.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 20:25:33 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) |
| 20:26:43 | * | amiconn finds 'upside down' quite useful from time to time |
| 20:26:46 | bertrik | oh, it also turns the buttons upside down, nice |
| 20:26:50 | preglow | bertrik: not as useless |
| 20:26:57 | preglow | but i'd rather remove that option as well, of course |
| 20:27:01 | moos | preglow, amiconn, bertrik: this way, sure we could find users hating one seetting, and this probably for quasi all options |
| 20:27:03 | preglow | and that one actually eats quite a bit of space |
| 20:27:03 | hcs | bertrik: what if you live in australia? |
| 20:27:22 | preglow | moos: i don't intend to ask all users |
| 20:27:41 | Llorean | amiconn: I find "Always On" quite useful when combined with a dock. |
| 20:27:43 | nanok | i use upsidedown all the time |
| 20:27:45 | preglow | if we asked all users what settings to use, we'd be bloated beyond anything now |
| 20:27:46 | moos | preglow: I mean all features are used, and all users have her resistents ;) |
| 20:27:56 | preglow | likewise, i am not going to ask all users when removing settings |
| 20:28:02 | preglow | moos: sure, but i don't care |
| 20:28:05 | pixelma | bertrik: someone in the forum said he used his sansa e200 upside down for the controls |
| 20:28:26 | preglow | we are the developers, not the users |
| 20:28:31 | preglow | users are free to patch their builds however they want |
| 20:28:39 | moos | preglow: teah but that's a taste thing |
| 20:28:47 | amiconn | 'upside down' is helpful if you have your dap sitting on the table. Depending on the orientation of the earphone connector, you can move around a bit more (and avoid kinks in the cable) |
| 20:28:54 | pixelma | and I could imagine that it is useful on the c200 for left handed people |
| 20:28:57 | moos | If a user want an always baclight option??? |
| 20:29:50 | preglow | moos: we have aa "backlight always on" option |
| 20:29:55 | preglow | moos: i don't want to remove that, i think that's a good option |
| 20:29:59 | | Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 20:30:14 | Llorean | preglow: Always Off is pretty good too, if your DAP has a screen that can be seen without the backlight on. |
| 20:30:14 | nanok | i think upside down is also usefull for certain dap's when worn on that string around the neck: for the sansa e200, for example, fi you use the upside down option, it is painless, otherwise it is really hard |
| 20:30:18 | moos | preglow: ...even if w don't use it :) |
| 20:30:21 | | Join Davide-NYC [0] (n=chatzill@user-12hdtj8.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:30:21 | moos | we |
| 20:30:33 | amiconn | And 'upside down' is cheap - it's only implemented on targets where the lcd controller allows reversing the update directions |
| 20:30:35 | preglow | Llorean: sure, but that's a backlight option, no? not a "backlight on hold" ? |
| 20:30:56 | amiconn | So all it needs is a little setup commands, on some targets maintaining an offset variable, and the button flip filter |
| 20:31:04 | | Quit hcs ("Leaving.") |
| 20:31:04 | Llorean | preglow: Oh, missed the "on hold" bit. |
| 20:31:17 | moos | preglow: missed the always off here :) |
| 20:31:21 | Llorean | preglow: Always Off is not as useful on hold I guess (unless it overrules the "on plugged in" option) |
| 20:31:23 | preglow | Llorean: "backligh" is fine by me, i just think "backlight on hold" is useless |
| 20:31:32 | Llorean | Backlight on Hold is used by me |
| 20:31:37 | preglow | Llorean: why? |
| 20:31:41 | preglow | and what for? |
| 20:31:43 | Llorean | I put my DAP in a dock |
| 20:31:43 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:31:48 | Llorean | Backlight always on with the speakers |
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| 20:31:56 | preglow | Llorean: what does that have to do with hold? |
| 20:31:57 | Llorean | When I go to sleep, I flip the hold switch so the screen is darkened |
| 20:32:08 | Llorean | Music doesn't stop, but no annoying glow |
| 20:32:11 | Llorean | I might be a special case though |
| 20:32:16 | preglow | ok, so you're using the hold switch as a light dimmer |
| 20:32:18 | bertrik | heh, so maybe another option: "backlight on dock" ? :P |
| 20:32:20 | Llorean | Yep |
| 20:32:34 | preglow | you can do that just fine without this setting |
| 20:32:37 | Llorean | bertrik: That's "backlight while charging" |
| 20:32:45 | Llorean | preglow: How? |
| 20:33:01 | preglow | Llorean: by switching backlight setting? |
| 20:33:11 | PaulJam | please don't remove the backlight on hold option. i really like it. |
| 20:33:23 | preglow | Llorean: it takes more time, but i really think we shouldn't bother with settings that duplicate functionality just so you can press three buttons less during a day |
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| 20:34:36 | Llorean | preglow: I do agree the setting is of arguable value, but I think it should be put on a "Can be removed if necessary" list rather than a "We should go ahead and remove it" list. |
| 20:34:46 | amiconn | Looks like every option has its users, and usage cases |
| 20:35:02 | moos | amiconn: Amen, taste thing |
| 20:35:10 | Zagor | "if you build it, they will come" :-) |
| 20:35:15 | preglow | i'm not contesting that, i'm just saying that's not a reason to not remove some |
| 20:35:17 | amiconn | If it was me to decide, I would remove a bunch of options, but others than those mentioned so far |
| 20:35:28 | bertrik | amiconn: which ones? |
| 20:35:43 | | Quit Davide-NYC ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.10/2007111504]") |
| 20:36:07 | preglow | i'd just love to remove these esoteric fringe options that really just duplicate functionality |
| 20:36:09 | Llorean | preglow: I do agree with the fact that "just because people like it, it's not a reason to remove it", but at the same time if there's no use for "Backlight on Hold", then there's no use for "Backlight while Charging" either. |
| 20:36:21 | Llorean | Or rather, there's no reason to keep it, not "No use" |
| 20:36:22 | preglow | Llorean: i'd love to remove that... |
| 20:36:26 | preglow | Llorean: but it's marginally more useful |
| 20:36:44 | Llorean | I'd say "On Hold" is actually more useful. |
| 20:36:50 | PaulJam | i use the hold switch to turn backlight on or off. if you despertaely want to remove a setting, why not remove the "sort case sensitive" option. I'd be surprised if someone uses it. |
| 20:37:01 | Llorean | "On" on hold means that you can use it to show the WPS without "First Keypress" methods. |
| 20:37:05 | amiconn | bertrik: Fade on stop/pause, crossfade, crossfeed, curesheet support, replaygain... |
| 20:37:15 | pondlife | Backlight on charge makes a lot of sense |
| 20:37:15 | nanok | i have a hunch every developer would remove other options. this is probably why of's tend to seem lacking to most people: they contain only what a small group of individual thought meaningfull, and i honestly think this is where rb differs so much, being a community effort |
| 20:37:18 | moos | preglow: more useful for *who*? ;) |
| 20:37:27 | preglow | moos: for me, of course |
| 20:37:30 | amiconn | Oh, not to forget the sw eq |
| 20:37:32 | preglow | i can't speak for anyone else |
| 20:37:35 | pixelma | Zagor: to comment on your question earlier, the bootloader I have also says "model id: e200" when starting the original firmware (starting Rockbox is not verbose). It's one that was made with barrywardell's bootloader commit which disabled the OF's database refresh. |
| 20:37:52 | Llorean | nanok: A balance does have to be maintained with Rockbox. It's a semi-constant war against feature creep |
| 20:37:52 | pixelma | on e200 that was |
| 20:38:15 | Llorean | preglow: On a semi-related note, what's the reason for wanting to remove them? Complication in the code, or simply "Keep the menus streamlined"? |
| 20:38:25 | Zagor | pixelma: can you run "fdisk -l" on your c200 and tell me what partition type you have? |
| 20:38:42 | pondlife | Llorean: That reminds me, any progress on the menu proposal? |
| 20:38:51 | preglow | Llorean: "keep the menus streamlined" |
| 20:38:57 | preglow | simplicity is good |
| 20:39:04 | Llorean | pondlife: Not so far. I've got the printout still, but I haven't managed to go at it with a red pen. |
| 20:39:09 | preglow | and right now rockbox isn't very simple at all |
| 20:39:15 | Zagor | pixelma: actually, ignore that. partition type isn't changed by mkfs |
| 20:39:25 | Llorean | preglow: I think then that the backlight settings at least are well named, and not particularly confusing to the user. |
| 20:39:33 | nanok | Llorean: i do understand that, but i was trying to think out loud, and figure out some decent criteria which could be used. i guess space(if it si so important, but on current dap's i think it is not so much, they tend to have plenty of space)+overhead of maintainig the feature - how usefull it is (but how do you determine this one "objectively"?) |
| 20:39:38 | Llorean | preglow: There's a lot of other places were the confusion slips in. :) |
| 20:39:49 | preglow | sure, just mentioning things i notice |
| 20:39:50 | preglow | haha |
| 20:40:16 | Llorean | Honestly, I'd like to see an improved menu system of some sort, but I haven't come up with a proposal yet. Separate from reorganization, that is. |
| 20:40:18 | preglow | i use so little of rockbox i usually don't see much |
| 20:40:35 | moos | the only thing we can be sure, no one dev:user use all the plenty options :) |
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| 20:40:50 | pixelma | Zagor: and it only takes longer to boot into the OF if it detects a microSD - haven't observed changes in boot time yet |
| 20:41:11 | Llorean | nanok: Space isn't a big issue. Code size and RAM usage is, in a very, very minor sense (Most modern DAPs have plenty of RAM, but there's no rule that says a flash player won't have only 1mb, so there's no sense wasting RAM we don't need to), code complexity (hard to maintain), and user confusion (overwhelmed by features and their interplay) |
| 20:41:20 | preglow | Llorean: just coupled with a wish for rockbox to approach settings a bit different than it usually has |
| 20:41:30 | preglow | seems to me developers pretty much just add stuff they want |
| 20:41:38 | pondlife | The display and theme options really need sorting out... |
| 20:41:59 | pondlife | Plus the two menus both called System always confuse me for a short while |
| 20:42:02 | pixelma | yes, and they don't help getting the manual up to date :) |
| 20:42:04 | Llorean | preglow: How would you do it, then? |
| 20:42:20 | preglow | Llorean: i'd want more discussion, that's for sure |
| 20:42:28 | preglow | Llorean: but of course, you can't overdo that either, people tend to never agree |
| 20:42:30 | Zagor | pixelma: ahh, found the OF internal formatting function. that fixed my problem. |
| 20:42:38 | nanok | Llorean: wouldn't it be possible to have a system for disabling features at runtime or buildtime to save ram, instead of removing them alltogether, and to make it simpler also, in the process? |
| 20:42:44 | pondlife | We need a document to show a proposed layout (on the wiki?) |
| 20:42:50 | Llorean | pondlife: I'd really like "related" settings to be nested. Like, first you choose "Backlight" then you see options for "On Hold" "On Battery" and "On Charger" rather than three long setting names... sorta, more grouping, and less long lists. |
| 20:42:59 | preglow | and that's if you manage to get people to discuss it at all |
| 20:43:03 | pixelma | Zagor: interesting... |
| 20:43:11 | Llorean | preglow: More discussion is definitely needed, especially since most of the basics are covered and we're getting into more fringe feature territory all the time |
| 20:43:12 | nanok | also, there is a saying about not needing to make it too simple: if you assume your users are idiots, you will soon have idiots for users :) |
| 20:43:31 | pondlife | It's not over-complex, just badly laid out IMHO |
| 20:43:51 | amiconn | Llorean: The problem with that approach is that you then need a way to know where you are in the tree |
| 20:43:53 | preglow | Llorean: yup |
| 20:43:56 | pixelma | Llorean: and then there are remotes with backlight settings - part of the "backlight" submenu or an own "remote" submenu? |
| 20:44:15 | Llorean | nanok: Some features are disabled at build time (RTC for H120), but one of the goals is to try to have Rockbox be as similarly functional as the hardware permits. And most cases, a new *feature* won't get rejected, but a new way to do something that can already be done, will be. |
| 20:44:56 | Llorean | amiconn: That's why I haven't come up with an actual proposal yet. I haven't yet come up with a way that's less problem-filled than the current way. |
| 20:45:01 | * | bertrik thinks the current menu structure is quite OK |
| 20:45:18 | nanok | Llorean: that i understand, at least to some extent, it is obviously not reasonable to have useless complications |
| 20:45:19 | Llorean | pixelma: Backlight->Main/Remote->On Batter/On Charger/On Hold |
| 20:45:32 | amiconn | I think the current menu system works fairly well, just a few options need reordering |
| 20:45:53 | Llorean | nanok: Well, one thing, keeping it simpler makes the code easier to maintain. Having 40 options that do the same thing might "simplify" it for people who have a preference for one of them, but probably confuses new users. Etc. |
| 20:46:07 | preglow | Llorean: but existing ways to do soemthing that already can be done shouldn't be removed once they're already in? |
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| 20:46:12 | Llorean | amiconn: I didn't say the current one is bad, mind you. I'm just not sure it's the best we can have. :) |
| 20:46:26 | amiconn | The table-driven settings are macro hell, but once you get used to them, they're not that difficult to handle |
| 20:46:36 | Llorean | preglow: See, that's where it gets iffy. Taking things away from users is always problematic. Or even changing them (view the shouts of outrage about the dB volume, or keymap changes). |
| 20:46:56 | nanok | Llorean: that kind of "complication" should be configurable via a text config file imho, it shouldn't be something that has to be "builtin", as much as possible |
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| 20:47:00 | amiconn | And the result is quite compact... although there is some non-const stuff that should be const and I can't figure out why it isn't :/ |
| 20:47:05 | preglow | Llorean: i just believe we should go by the same arguments for stuff that's already in and stuff that someone wants in |
| 20:47:08 | pondlife | Those menu macros are not very readable.. and they seem to get out of patch-sync quicker than most code.. |
| 20:47:10 | Llorean | preglow: I'd say "Take 'em out if it makes the code easier to maintain, or if they're definitely introducing confusion, leave them if they're simple enough to have it be merely preference whether they're in or not" |
| 20:47:17 | preglow | "i'm used to it" isn't a good reason |
| 20:47:39 | Llorean | nanok: How do you mean? I'm not sure I understand that statement |
| 20:47:58 | Llorean | nanok: We *really* don't like options that can only be accessible via text config. These are portable devices, and should be configurable wholly from within the device |
| 20:48:01 | pondlife | IMHO all settings should be settable without needing a text editor. |
| 20:48:20 | pondlife | Some of the icon stuff needs improving their IIRC |
| 20:48:29 | pondlife | s/their/there |
| 20:48:32 | preglow | we should rather try making backlight handling on hold always doing the right thing, like i wouldn't really mind if the "backlight on hold" off setting was made default |
| 20:48:39 | pixelma | Llorean: that could be confusing (or needs a special case) for targets without remote. Just what comes to my mind, I'm not saying that the idea is bad or so, in fact it's the opposite. |
| 20:48:49 | amiconn | Well, making wps'es requires (and always required) a text editor |
| 20:48:55 | Llorean | preglow: And that's a very valid point of view. And one I'm *almost* in favour of. But you have to admit, "not giving them the option in the first place" is very different from "letting them develop a habit, and taking it away". So I think while they should be *similarly* considered, the weight is a little different. |
| 20:49:00 | Zagor | my opinion is that we have much more important issues than menu or setting complexity |
| 20:49:09 | amiconn | I think that themes don't need to be creatable on-device |
| 20:49:14 | nanok | Llorean: i mean when the feature is not something new rb can do, but a new way for it to do it, having it in a new part of the menu and so on. probably many of these are in that category. also conditionals could be included there "if hold switch on set backlight to off" or something like that, should be easy to configure on the fly, based on events |
| 20:49:22 | preglow | Zagor: indeed, but none that are so easily resolved :> |
| 20:49:23 | Llorean | preglow: I certainly wouldn't mind the backlight always being off on hold, but devices with remotes might disagree. |
| 20:49:31 | | Quit barrywardell (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:49:36 | amiconn | preglow: What would "the right thing" be? |
| 20:49:38 | Zagor | preglow: easy in code, perhaps. but not with consensus... |
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| 20:49:50 | preglow | Zagor: never hurts to try :) |
| 20:49:57 | preglow | Llorean: wouldn't be applied to remotes, of course |
| 20:50:04 | Llorean | nanok: I'm still not quite understanding. You still need to add complexity to the code to support the new methodology. |
| 20:50:13 | amiconn | I wouldn't like backlight being off on hold... |
| 20:50:19 | nanok | rb could come with a default config, which is what the developers agree on, and if any user wants to play with it, they can, on theyr own, using events and conditional statements and such. i am not sure how is that would be to do though |
| 20:50:28 | Llorean | preglow: I meant though that the with the H120 on hold, the remote not on hold, some people might want the screen to light up despite that. Though I wouldn't mind overruling them. |
| 20:50:32 | preglow | amiconn: "off" sounds right to me, once you switch hold on, it's logical to assume you're not going to be looking at the display much longmer |
| 20:50:39 | amiconn | eh? |
| 20:50:46 | nanok | Llorean: yes, agreed. if it is not deisgned like this in the first place, it will surely not be easy |
| 20:50:50 | Llorean | nanok: Sounds like you'd then need to support a scripting language, which is another layer of added complexity... |
| 20:51:02 | Zagor | amiconn: then set "backlight on hold" to "off" |
| 20:51:08 | amiconn | "hold" is for avoiding accidental button events, not for preventing a quick glance on the display... |
| 20:51:16 | Zagor | the option isn't "turn on backlight on hold" |
| 20:51:17 | nanok | Llorean: yes, but not such a complex one. something similar to the wps i think |
| 20:51:33 | preglow | amiconn: sure, and you do that when you put it somewhere you usually can't see it |
| 20:51:34 | Llorean | amiconn: The LCD doesn't go off if the backlight's off... and to light the backlight you'd have to press a button, non-hold, anyway, right? |
| 20:51:43 | amiconn | preglow: Not in the car... |
| 20:51:52 | preglow | accidental button presses in a car??? |
| 20:52:00 | preglow | i usually keep my hands on the steering wheel or gearshift |
| 20:52:01 | amiconn | Well, usually not |
| 20:52:47 | Llorean | nanok: Still, all that does is increase the code size further (strings, code to handle the new options, plus code to handle the scripting) compared to simply statically including the options in the menus. It addresses the "user confusion" problem by hiding it, perhaps, but makes the "code complexity" and "code size" problems worse in the process. |
| 20:52:57 | amiconn | But imho there is no single "right thing" to do - that's why there is an option |
| 20:53:01 | Llorean | nanok: Not to mention, if you hide an option from users, the vast, vast majority won't ever find it anyway. |
| 20:53:27 | preglow | amiconn: often there isn't, no, but sometimes you can deduce behaviour that is logical and easy to get used to, really eliminating the need for an option in the process |
| 20:54:09 | amiconn | Btw, when that option was first introduced, I didn't like it, because it doesn't really add new functionality, but now that it exists, I can see a few usage cases where it's useful |
| 20:54:59 | amiconn | Well I 'might' agree that it would be logical to switch off backlight on hold, unless it's set to 'always on' |
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| 20:55:00 | NJoin | hannesd [0] (n=light@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) |
| 20:55:05 | amiconn | But then Llorean would complain... |
| 20:55:20 | Llorean | Not really |
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| 20:56:03 | Llorean | What I'd recommend though is that precedence be "On Battery" > "On Hold" > "On Charger" if "on" conflicts with "off" |
| 20:56:21 | Llorean | Then if you set it Always On for Battery it will always, always be on |
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| 20:56:34 | Llorean | If you set it to a timer on Battery, Off on hold, On on charger, turning hold on, on charger, will turn it off. |
| 20:56:35 | preglow | but i don't really see a reason to turn the backlight on when you switch hold on. hold is for keeping accidental key presses from happening, and backlight doesn't enter into that |
| 20:56:51 | preglow | so what the option really becomes is a customizable button thing, and we all know what we feel about that... |
| 20:57:15 | * | amiconn summons JdGordon |
| 20:57:34 | Llorean | Of course, that still means having two setting, "On Battery" and "On Charger" and simply dropping "On hold" but works for me |
| 20:57:35 | amiconn | 'hold' is not a button ;) |
| 20:57:47 | nanok | Llorean: well, that is another discussion. a set of configs could be provided with the rb, "default" "full" "minimal", whatever, you get the picture, the full one being intended to showcase what can be done rather than to be used, not to mention the countless theme-makers out there, which would just jump at the occasion to customize them further. so that shouldn;t be a problem |
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| 20:58:22 | scorche|w | amiconn: i think he is somewhere above the atlantic |
| 20:58:26 | Llorean | nanok: The problem is that you're still forgetting entirely everything but "the desire to customize"... |
| 20:58:30 | amiconn | Ah, hmm :/ |
| 20:58:40 | * | pixelma hands nanok some ' |
| 20:58:46 | * | amiconn has a question concerning the settings system and voice |
| 20:59:13 | amiconn | I have an idea how it might be possible to handle numeric settings with decimal point |
| 20:59:20 | Llorean | preglow: Would you find the order of precedence idea acceptable, with "On Hold" simply being "Always off, unless it's set to always on on battery"? |
| 20:59:20 | nanok | Llorean: about code complexity, ofcourse, it is arguable, and i am the last to be able to asses how much it would affect it, but i think , maybe, on the long run it would be worth it (after it is done, there is less to maintain for every release, and having a more modular system means less gui-related work for the developer who just wants some functional feature added, and so on) |
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| 20:59:32 | lostlogic | scorche|w: naw, he's over land now ;), just running up the coast from Cali to here. |
| 20:59:36 | preglow | Llorean: oh, sure |
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| 20:59:44 | preglow | Llorean: if it's set to always on, then you don't want hold to change that |
| 20:59:44 | nanok | Llorean: yes, i answered in reverse, sorry for the confusion |
| 20:59:51 | Llorean | nanok: How does adding code to allow custom addition and removal of items from menus mean less to maintain? |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:14 | Llorean | preglow: But at the same time, I'd rather "Always on when charging" be overruled by turning hold on, still. |
| 21:00:23 | Llorean | Just "Always on when on battery" overruling on-hold |
| 21:00:41 | amiconn | The idea of making options optional was already discussed several times, and turned down |
| 21:01:14 | preglow | Llorean: what, because of your particular usage scenario? problem with that is that i don't think it's very logical |
| 21:01:50 | nanok | Llorean: the point was that you don't need to care about that part everytime you add or change something, the interaction with the gui would be via a "standard" interface, which would be easy to make backwards compatible and have generally more separated from the "functional" part |
| 21:01:58 | scorche|w | lostlogic: ah...he should have met me in cali |
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| 21:02:00 | preglow | Llorean: i can agree to some degree that switching hold on when it's charging might signify something else than you wanting to avoid spurious key presses, though |
| 21:02:02 | jhMikeS | amiconn: do you have any idea about when this p5002 stuff was originally reported? |
| 21:02:03 | nanok | Llorean: uhm, it is an endless discussion, it was just an idea |
| 21:02:26 | Llorean | preglow: I know I'm not the only one who uses the hold switch to turn off the backlight when plugged in. But I think an order of precedence with "On battery" always-on always overruling the "Off on hold" or "Whatever you set on-charger to" doesn't seem that illogical |
| 21:02:28 | nanok | and i am certainly not a good one to sustain it, even if there is something good in it :) |
| 21:02:34 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Unfortunately not. In fact I don't know about other reports, but I observed it for quite a while myself |
| 21:03:01 | Llorean | nanok: Sorry. Don't mean to sound critical, but you seem to be suggesting *adding* a bunch of stuff, which means that there's new stuff to maintain, rather than less stuff to maintain. |
| 21:03:09 | amiconn | For quite some time I thought it might be a hardware problem of either my 2nd Gen or my firewire port |
| 21:03:13 | preglow | Llorean: yeah, i'm easing into the idea |
| 21:03:23 | Llorean | preglow: Ot |
| 21:03:42 | Llorean | preglow: If I could type... It's not perfect, but I think it would be the combination that would least break the way people normally tend to use it now, while still losing a setting |
| 21:03:49 | amiconn | But now that I compared behaviour with my 1st Gen, and also "cmp"ed files, I know that it isn't |
| 21:04:12 | preglow | Llorean: yeah,i think that could work |
| 21:04:17 | amiconn | jhMikeS: I think it did not happen back in August |
| 21:04:29 | preglow | Llorean: at least not so many people use "hold" while charging that they'd be too confused by the behaviour |
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| 21:04:45 | preglow | and those that do probably want the backlight off :-) |
| 21:04:46 | jhMikeS | amiconn: Ok. All I know is 1) both the crashing and batt problem disappear with the cache off. 2) never waking up the COP to have it init has no effect (one core running is enough) |
| 21:04:48 | Llorean | I think the only people who use hold while charging are the ones who expect it to overrule the "While Charging" backlight settings currently |
| 21:04:55 | preglow | yeah, heh |
| 21:05:14 | preglow | so, eliminate one option, and still accomplish what people want \o/ |
| 21:05:15 | nanok | Llorean: i understand that, but the reason i suggest it in the first place is that i think it can be made in such a way to make things easyer after. meaning have some things which rarely change separated from the functional part, which is worked on all the time by the developers, and have less technical people/non=programmers be able to handle that, and thus help the developers not worry about it, thus saving time and effort |
| 21:05:16 | jhMikeS | amiconn: that far back? hmmm... |
| 21:05:22 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Yes, I know it happens with single core... of course then you don't see the cop crashing |
| 21:05:29 | nanok | Llorean: it would be an added effort at first, ofcourse |
| 21:06:01 | jhMikeS | amiconn: I mean never even waking it to leave crt0-pp.S at all. |
| 21:06:02 | nanok | Llorean: it's just a thought, probably not very well forumlated, and not very clear (it just came to me while watching the discussion) |
| 21:06:15 | Llorean | nanok: I don't really understand what we're talking about any more... what things would non-technical people be working on at all in terms of core code? |
| 21:06:35 | amiconn | jhMikeS: ?? Looks like I'm confused... |
| 21:06:55 | jhMikeS | I thought something could get clobbered when the COP goes into cop_main to sleep on single-core build but no. This is really odd. |
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| 21:07:59 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:07:59 | jhMikeS | amiconn: Never waking up the COP so it even goes past the startup code it still behaves the same. |
| 21:08:15 | amiconn | Does the cop crash then? |
| 21:08:33 | nanok | Llorean: that's the point, not core code. menu layout, features which are used/accessible and those which are not, and so on. everything which means user interaction. i don't know, something like x windows system, on top of which you put a window manager, desktop env., and so on, but it is not the problem of the video card drivers developer, nor the x-windows system developer; ofcourse, not on that scale, it was just an example of such reasoning |
| 21:08:44 | jhMikeS | it never crashes if it's not woken. the CPU still crashes or has bad battery reading |
| 21:08:53 | amiconn | With the build I have on my PP5002 ipods, I see both cores crashing. First the cop, and later the cpu |
| 21:09:11 | jhMikeS | yeah, if they both perform init they will |
| 21:09:31 | amiconn | If you disable the cache to make it boot - where are you doing that? |
| 21:09:39 | Llorean | nanok: The thing is, the underlying code still has to support any menu entries they want to add to the layout... So in the end, the core code still has to increase complexity to match any increased featureset... |
| 21:09:41 | amiconn | And what happens if you enable the cache later? |
| 21:10:12 | jhMikeS | amiconn: just commenting out ipod_init_cache. (you also need to block calls to the cache routines) |
| 21:10:27 | | Quit karashata ("I will *SO* make you regret that... Later... *is a lazy dragon*") |
| 21:10:52 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Maybe the cache is flushed too late, so it writes old data from the cache to the ram? |
| 21:11:28 | jhMikeS | it's flushed in the bootloader (it is on by default). disabling it in the bootloader has no effect either. :\ |
| 21:11:46 | amiconn | Why does it flush and invalidate in rockbox, btw? Shouldn't that be done in the bootloader, *before* passing control to the loaded rockbox binary? |
| 21:12:03 | jhMikeS | it is handled in the bootloader |
| 21:12:07 | amiconn | hmm |
| 21:12:17 | amiconn | What happens if you enable the cache later? |
| 21:12:20 | nanok | Llorean: yes, but it wouldn't have to support combinations of them. for example, if you have an event for "hold on", and a set of possible settings for the backlight, you can combine them however you want, without needing the core code to have support for specifically "backlight off if hold on", built into it |
| 21:12:44 | nanok | Llorean: i mean hold switch "on" |
| 21:12:45 | amiconn | What's really irritating is that it didn't happen with every build in the past |
| 21:13:05 | jhMikeS | amiconn: same thing happens no matter what. |
| 21:13:42 | jhMikeS | yeah, it is frustrating since the basic init hasn't changed at all. |
| 21:13:48 | amiconn | With dualcore, there weren't enough builds so far. The 2 builds I tried both crash spectacularly |
| 21:14:13 | nanok | Llorean: this is i think the bottom line: you can only worry about "atomic" functions which can be afterwards combined in any way, no need to worry about and maintain others. i am not saying it is better, just saying it might be a way to look at it *maybe* |
| 21:14:22 | jhMikeS | you can probably throw some noops somewhere and have it work mysteriously |
| 21:14:34 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:14:59 | Llorean | nanok: In that case, all you need is a few simple things. Various "States" for the device (Playback on/off, Hold on/off, etc) and the ability to load a .cfg file in transitions between various states or combinations of states. |
| 21:15:21 | Llorean | Which then boils down to "The user can click on a .cfg whenever they want" and saves the code of having to monitor these states and find files for them. |
| 21:15:23 | nanok | Llorean: as i said, it just occured to me now, i am not advocating it, just trying to figure out what it is that ran through my mind :), and express it coherently, so maybe someone who understands the big picture can make use of it (or discard it) |
| 21:15:27 | amiconn | Now that would be wasteful... spinning up the disk for every state change |
| 21:16:40 | amiconn | jhMikeS: In fact I already pondered going through all commits since August (in steps of 10 first), and write down which ones crash and which don't |
| 21:17:05 | amiconn | But that'd be a lot of work, and afterwards I might need a new firewire socket for my laptop :/ |
| 21:17:09 | nanok | Llorean: amiconn i ws not thinking about config files for each state change, i was thinking about a config which is "read" and loaded into memory at boot, for example, only once |
| 21:17:32 | amiconn | Wasting memory is bad either |
| 21:17:33 | jhMikeS | amiconn: if a build does work, do yours show low battery or is that only 3g? |
| 21:17:52 | preglow | Llorean: i might cook up a patch for this and demand some feedback :) |
| 21:17:53 | Llorean | nanok: It's the same thing though. The .cfg files could be cached just as effectively, the "wasting memory" argument stands. Did you know you can load a .cfg by clicking on it in the file browser, like a song? |
| 21:18:05 | Llorean | preglow: Sounds like a good idea. |
| 21:18:08 | amiconn | I sometimes see low battery percentages first, but I always thought these are just due to the disk spinning at boot |
| 21:18:12 | preglow | not today, though |
| 21:18:25 | | Quit psycho_maniac (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC") |
| 21:18:39 | nanok | Llorean: yes, i know that, haven't played with it though, and don't know to what extent it can be usefull for the present discussion |
| 21:18:47 | amiconn | Low bat shutdown is disabled on 1st/2nd Gen, as those can't be shut down anyway, and we don't handle suspend yet |
| 21:19:02 | nanok | but considering the discussion was initiated in the first place, probably not much |
| 21:19:39 | | Quit Mathiasdm ("Ik ga weg") |
| 21:19:47 | Llorean | nanok: .cfg files can change an arbitrary number of settings, from 0 to "all of them", and can very effectively be used to change "profiles" such as an "in-car.cfg" that changes backlight preferences while plugged, font, theme, volume, enables the Car mode, etc, all in one swoop. |
| 21:19:47 | jhMikeS | amiconn: for me, the start % will be low, when the disk spins down at first, the battery indicator starts flashing (changing the disk spindown timeout changes when that happens). After awhile the filtered battery level will return to normal. |
| 21:20:15 | amiconn | Hmm. Didn't observe that |
| 21:20:38 | amiconn | But 1st/2nd Gen has no pcf, they have a dedicated (and different between 1st and 2nd Gen) battery adc |
| 21:20:42 | jhMikeS | It's probably a side effect...again, no such phenomenon with cache off. |
| 21:21:13 | nanok | Llorean: yes, i understand that, but what i was trying to get through here was a system where the cfg file is designed such that you don't need to have all options "in-core", but only atomic "options", which can be combined after in any way |
| 21:21:35 | amiconn | They need bit-banged serial transfer... and the one in the 2nd Gen is so slow that the driver needs to use GPIO interrupts in order to be efficient |
| 21:22:03 | Llorean | nanok: There are very, very, very few options that can be described as a combination of atomic options. |
| 21:22:21 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 21:23:02 | nanok | Llorean: hm, okay. in that case i am way off, i suppose. i thought this was mainly what the discussion was caused by, |
| 21:23:09 | | Part pondlife ("Gone") |
| 21:23:16 | | Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 21:23:25 | nanok | Llorean: this is what i understood from your statement about "new ways to do old things" as features |
| 21:23:42 | nanok | being rejected as features, that is |
| 21:28:34 | jhMikeS | amiconn: this is by far the strangest pp behavior I've encountered. none of the usual coherency problem seem to apply here. those have always been fairly quick to track down and fix. |
| 21:28:41 | | Quit stewball`ghost (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:30:15 | jhMikeS | I havnen't found any "exotic" things the OF is doing either. Basically, it does as we do and makes sure the cache is turned off as its very first operation. |
| 21:34:07 | preglow | done any binary searches through commits yet? |
| 21:34:38 | jhMikeS | not yet. this will be the first time ever I have to do something like that. :p bleh...what a pain. |
| 21:34:54 | preglow | indeed |
| 21:35:02 | preglow | especially considering it sometimes works when it's in fact buggy :) |
| 21:35:34 | jhMikeS | ...and having to go back so far...I'll probably just go by month at first. |
| 21:35:45 | amiconn | Yes, and because of that binsearch won't really work |
| 21:35:55 | amiconn | It would need to be an exhaustive search |
| 21:36:49 | | Quit obo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:36:57 | | Quit spiorf (Connection timed out) |
| 21:37:02 | jhMikeS | well, if I can nail a month down. then go by week...etc. |
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| 21:39:56 | amiconn | Hmm, ~1800 revisions from August to now |
| 21:40:27 | amiconn | The first time I observed this behaviour should be deducable from the irc logs |
| 21:40:39 | amiconn | It was on some weekend |
| 21:40:56 | jhMikeS | higher-order searches are your friend here :) |
| 21:41:00 | amiconn | And I usually update all targets once per week |
| 21:41:19 | amiconn | ...but not always |
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| 21:42:22 | | Join homielowe [0] (n=chatzill@d207-81-67-190.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 21:42:24 | jhMikeS | I have no idea when it popped up. I remember you commenting after the initial dualcore commit, then I made a change to remove swp and you said it worked again. |
| 21:43:30 | jhMikeS | perhaps swp had nothing to do with it |
| 21:43:33 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 21:43:41 | przemhb | hi |
| 21:43:42 | | Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
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| 21:44:34 | przemhb | if someone would be interested in checking workaround patch for FS #8238 then it is on the tracker |
| 21:45:00 | przemhb | the patch verifies wheter or not H10 radio was tuned in |
| 21:45:20 | | Quit Gnu47 ("I'm off to stalk my Pah'Mach'kai") |
| 21:45:35 | jhMikeS | is the H10 tuner bitbanged i2c? |
| 21:45:35 | | Join Gnu47 [0] (i=Gnu47@private.ntwk.thita.net) |
| 21:45:39 | przemhb | if it wasn't it sets PLL frequency untill the radio gets tuned in |
| 21:46:21 | przemhb | jhMikeS: what do you mean by bitbanged? |
| 21:46:48 | jhMikeS | not using the hardware i2c but by setting GPIO pins in software |
| 21:47:27 | przemhb | yes, it is |
| 21:50:43 | jhMikeS | I'm gonna slow it down a bit and see if 80MHz will actually tune the radio (it can neither read nor write the chip at that frequency). |
| 21:51:55 | jhMikeS | I know it's udelay based but worth a shot anyway. |
| 21:52:49 | przemhb | I've tested increased udelay up to 50us, but it did not help for the FS #8144 |
| 21:53:04 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 21:53:33 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 21:53:41 | amiconn | jhMikeS: This H10 tuner problem is weird. It seems only the 20GB model is affected |
| 21:53:59 | amiconn | I have no problem tuning back & forth at both 30 and 80MHz on my 6GB model |
| 21:54:49 | jhMikeS | almost sounds a bit like the c/e200 stuff |
| 21:55:48 | | Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 21:57:42 | | Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) |
| 21:59:48 | amiconn | jhMikeS: My first mention of this PP5002 crashing bug in the logs is from October 16. An earlier one is from Octoer 6, but that I am not sure about myself |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:34 | | Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@hdp186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 22:01:07 | jhMikeS | przemhb: indeed...it's as though there's no bus traffic at all. :\ |
| 22:02:11 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Log from 16 Oct 2007 starting 10:06 |
| 22:02:35 | * | amiconn likes baregrep :) |
| 22:02:47 | | Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:03:07 | jhMikeS | which on the 6th? |
| 22:03:25 | amiconn | Errr, that earlier mention is from the 4th |
| 22:03:44 | amiconn | Starting 19:43 |
| 22:03:52 | | Quit male (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:03:59 | jhMikeS | probably why I'm not finding it :) |
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| 22:06:58 | | Join movmov [0] (n=bbnet2@202.59.192.18) |
| 22:07:45 | jhMikeS | I only see talk about the H10 and remember this discussion (was before getting to the bottom of PP5020 instabilities). |
| 22:08:28 | przemhb | jhMikeS: if you take a look into m patch you'll find an interesting thing - I had to use sleep() in order to make it work as simple delays - udelay() and TIME_AFTER() - were insufficient |
| 22:08:42 | | Quit movmov (Client Quit) |
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| 22:09:41 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) |
| 22:10:06 | jhMikeS | przembh: I noticed that too and I'm curious as to the reason and how it could matter. |
| 22:10:56 | przemhb | jhMikeS: I have no idea... |
| 22:12:30 | | Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.10/2007111504]") |
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| 22:14:29 | | Join Gnu47 [0] (n=Gnu47@private.ntwk.thita.net) |
| 22:15:01 | amiconn | jhMikeS: You're right - as I said, I wasn't sure about this 4th Oct mention |
| 22:15:13 | | Join japc [0] (n=japc@bl8-1-101.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 22:15:20 | amiconn | That was H10 - not visible when greping |
| 22:16:35 | amiconn | And Oct 16 was the broken swp() fix - but perhaps not only |
| 22:16:56 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:20:09 | przemhb | barrywardell: hi |
| 22:20:32 | barrywardell | hi |
| 22:20:34 | jhMikeS | amiconn: well, we know the problem is surviving deep changes anyway |
| 22:21:11 | | Part mawell ("Kopete 0.12.3 : http://kopete.kde.org") |
| 22:21:34 | amiconn | Hmm. Judging from the Oct 16 conversation, I'd say it started with the new scheduler code... |
| 22:21:36 | przemhb | barrywardell: haven't you experienced any problems with your H10 tuner? (like FS #8238 FS #8177 FS #8144) which version of H10 have ou got? |
| 22:21:39 | | Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:21:52 | barrywardell | I have 20GB |
| 22:22:09 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 22:22:21 | przemhb | barrywardell: have you tried to set starting screen to FM tuner? |
| 22:22:35 | barrywardell | no I haven't used the tuner much |
| 22:22:43 | barrywardell | I'll try now |
| 22:22:50 | przemhb | barrywardell: in my case the tuner doesn't tune in |
| 22:23:01 | jhMikeS | amiconn: possible, but why only a serious problem on 5002? though it's certainly not out of my consideration yet. |
| 22:23:13 | amiconn | I don't know :\ |
| 22:24:28 | barrywardell | I just set start screen to tuner, then turned off and back on and everything worked fine |
| 22:24:29 | jhMikeS | of course it could affect other targets but in a much more subtle/as yet undetected manner |
| 22:25:02 | przemhb | barrywardell: lucky you; my tuner doesn't tune in |
| 22:25:09 | barrywardell | I did just reproduce 8177 though |
| 22:25:15 | jhMikeS | I suppose a revision checkout before/after those changes should say |
| 22:25:28 | * | amiconn doesn't understand how the current scheduler works... :( |
| 22:26:40 | | Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) |
| 22:27:08 | przemhb | barrywardell: m friend's H10 is seriously affected by all those tuner issues - it hardly works :/ |
| 22:27:46 | jhMikeS | amiconn: simple list manager really...move the thread from one place to another depending on if it's running, blocked, or timeout. |
| 22:28:24 | | Join linuxstb__ [0] (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 22:28:24 | Gnu47 | Welcome linuxstb__! You have achieved a new peak of 162 users for #rockbox! |
| 22:29:04 | barrywardell | przemhb: have you checked if it's getting stuck in those while loops? |
| 22:29:15 | preglow | i don't think the scheduler is that hard to follow |
| 22:29:15 | pixelma | Gnu47: what if you wouldn't count the two other instances of linuxstb? ;) |
| 22:29:51 | Gnu47 | oops.... didn't realise i'd let that run in here :/ |
| 22:29:54 | jhMikeS | if it's on the running linked list (which is circular) it's just scheduled thread->next basically. if blocked, sleeping, or blocked w/tmo, it's somewhere else and gets no CPU cycles. |
| 22:30:12 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 22:31:04 | przemhb | barrywardell: no, I haven't (which while loops)? |
| 22:31:54 | | Join axionix [0] (n=axion@cpe-74-70-239-192.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:32:32 | barrywardell | waiting for !SCL |
| 22:33:59 | | Quit homielowe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:35:44 | | Join linuxstb___ [0] (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 22:35:45 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:35:46 | | Nick linuxstb___ is now known as linuxstb (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 22:35:57 | | Quit linuxstb_ (Nick collision from services.) |
| 22:35:59 | | Quit Rincewind ("bye") |
| 22:36:47 | barrywardell | Also, in scan mode for me it doesn't find any stations |
| 22:36:51 | | Quit Frazz ("Leaving") |
| 22:36:59 | | Join end-schranz [0] (n=bb@195.16.244.188) |
| 22:37:17 | end-schranz | [ERR] Firmware partition doesn't contain Apple copyright, aborting. |
| 22:37:17 | end-schranz | [ERR] Failed to read firmware directory - nimages=0 |
| 22:37:25 | end-schranz | how to fix this? |
| 22:38:02 | linuxstb | end-schranz: What did you type? |
| 22:38:14 | end-schranz | ./ipodpatcher /dev/sdc -ab loader.bin |
| 22:38:29 | przemhb | barrywardell: for me too |
| 22:38:37 | linuxstb | Is /dev/sdc your ipod, and does it contain a working Apple firmware partition? |
| 22:39:00 | end-schranz | yes: i only changed the partition layout to install ipodlinux |
| 22:39:04 | jhMikeS | amiconn: were you going to check out and test any earlier revisions? no sense in duplicating efforts. |
| 22:39:37 | amiconn | Not now |
| 22:40:06 | linuxstb | end-schranz: ipodpatcher disagrees with you... Does your ipod start normally? |
| 22:40:37 | end-schranz | linuxstb: no |
| 22:40:55 | linuxstb | That's the problem - ipodpatcher requires a working ipod to modify. |
| 22:41:05 | end-schranz | linuxstb: so i have to install the bootloader first and then partition it? |
| 22:41:14 | jhMikeS | I guess I'll go ahead then, starting at the 16th. Is there a way to get a flat revision list from the SVN browser? |
| 22:41:42 | end-schranz | linuxstb: thx i will try |
| 22:41:42 | preglow | svn log? :> |
| 22:41:44 | | Part end-schranz |
| 22:43:47 | jhMikeS | preglow: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/?view=log works too from the browser. :) |
| 22:44:03 | | Quit desowin ("use linux") |
| 22:44:11 | * | preglow distrusts and avoids his browser |
| 22:45:03 | | Quit obo ("KVIrc 3.2.4 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/") |
| 22:45:22 | stripwax | There's a comment posted to my pacbox patch saying that the long-term plan is to move all codecs to COP so that the main CPU is left alone for foreground tasks and that running pacbox on COP isn't compatible with that plan - does that mean the patch is unlikely to ever be accepted? |
| 22:45:41 | preglow | jhMikeS: would you know what the hell 8245 is talking about with mpegplayer? |
| 22:45:57 | preglow | stripwax: i wouldn't accept it, no |
| 22:46:14 | stripwax | preglow - what can I do to encourage the patch to be accepted? |
| 22:46:39 | preglow | stripwax: well, what can you do? if the point is to make it possible to play pacman while playing music, it'll break in the future |
| 22:46:42 | stripwax | linuxstb seemed interested (or, at least, gave me the idea to try it out..) |
| 22:47:00 | jhMikeS | preglow: have I commented on it? (will look in one moment) |
| 22:47:03 | stripwax | preglow - the cpu and cop will just get switched around, no? |
| 22:47:23 | preglow | jhMikeS: not in the least, the bug is unrelated to mpegplayer too, so i'll close it, just wondering if there's some info i can give, but it's pretty vague... |
| 22:47:31 | stripwax | Currently cpu=codec, cop=pacbox, in the future it will be cpu=pacbox, cop=codec |
| 22:47:35 | jhMikeS | preglow: one sec. |
| 22:47:37 | preglow | stripwax: sure |
| 22:47:50 | preglow | stripwax: how will this go together with pacman sound, though? |
| 22:48:01 | stripwax | preglow - not sure I understand. pacman sound is not implemented |
| 22:48:11 | stripwax | if/when it is, it can run on the same cpu as the codec, presumably |
| 22:48:18 | | Join male [0] (n=male@adsl-4-201-83.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:48:19 | jhMikeS | loading that SVN log in my browser is causing some nice pagefile activity :) |
| 22:48:27 | stripwax | unless you think ppl want codec *and* pacman sound? |
| 22:48:37 | preglow | stripwax: that's what i'm saying, what do you plan to do when someone comes aliong and implements it? add a "sound on/off" setting? |
| 22:48:46 | | Join safetydan [0] (n=safetyda@rockbox/developer/safetydan) |
| 22:48:59 | stripwax | preglow - whoever 'implements it' will add a sound on/off setting themselves, surely? |
| 22:49:15 | preglow | do any other games currently allow you to choose between playing music and playing game sound? |
| 22:49:16 | stripwax | we've already talked about it being possible to play pacbox + codec on gigabeat |
| 22:49:25 | | Nick BilleniumZzZ is now known as Billenium (n=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:49:33 | jhMikeS | it is possible to do |
| 22:49:39 | preglow | well, i guess it's a valid setting anyway, so sure, i don't have much against being able to listen to music and play at the same time |
| 22:49:55 | jhMikeS | gigabeast is also fast enought to play SPC+pacbox at 30fps |
| 22:50:04 | preglow | spoiled people... |
| 22:50:14 | stripwax | is gigabeat fast enough to play pacbox + spc + pacbox emulated sound mixed in? :-) |
| 22:50:35 | linuxstb | If not, the gigabeast definitely will be... |
| 22:50:39 | stripwax | heh |
| 22:50:39 | | Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:50:40 | jhMikeS | stripwax: I'd say quite likely yes |
| 22:50:54 | stripwax | ok. mixing is also something else I'm not planning to implement :-p |
| 22:51:31 | * | stripwax puts the finishing touches to sliding_puzzle.. |
| 22:52:21 | * | preglow wonders why nobody just did a native pacman |
| 22:52:30 | preglow | i really don't see the point in emulating it, heh |
| 22:52:32 | stripwax | Ok so. Original question - is there anything I can do to help get the pacbox patch committed or is it fatally incompatible with future plans? |
| 22:52:41 | stripwax | preglow - nerdy accuracy :-) |
| 22:52:45 | | Quit linuxstb__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:52:56 | jhMikeS | preglow: I'd say that last comment in 8245 is related to actually doing proper YUV conversion |
| 22:52:57 | * | linuxstb was about to say that, but slightly differently ;) |
| 22:53:04 | preglow | stripwax: make some interested person commit it :) |
| 22:53:07 | stripwax | Apple didn't bother emulating the arcade roms (.. obviously ..), so I'd imagine they have no problem running 60fps wiht audio |
| 22:53:20 | preglow | jhMikeS: it wasn't proper before? |
| 22:53:31 | stripwax | preglow - hehe. I prefer 'encourage' rather than 'make' :) |
| 22:53:53 | jhMikeS | the JPEG conversion made it less blocky because it hid it from not adding the correct offset |
| 22:54:02 | stripwax | I'd love to know if it works on nano btw. |
| 22:54:20 | jhMikeS | now you see all the nice image artifacts as they were meant to be seen :) |
| 22:55:25 | stripwax | preglow - actually I did make a start on a native pacman but the same week the initial commit of pacbox came along :) |
| 22:55:42 | preglow | jmspeex: jpeg conversion? |
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| 22:56:17 | preglow | ehh |
| 22:56:19 | * | jhMikeS wonders where jmspeex is |
| 22:56:21 | preglow | jhMikeS: jpeg conversion? :> |
| 22:56:38 | jmspeex | preglow: what about jpeg? |
| 22:56:45 | preglow | jmspeex: wrong nick, sorry |
| 22:56:49 | preglow | my tab completer sucks ass |
| 22:57:01 | jhMikeS | JPEG conversion = use the JPEG yuv conversion. JPEG uses the entire 0-255 range for all components - video does not. |
| 22:57:39 | preglow | jhMikeS: really? i thought that was a broadcast only thing |
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| 22:58:02 | | Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world") |
| 22:58:47 | jhMikeS | CCIR6601? No, Y=16-235, Cr/Cb=16-240 for MPEG video. |
| 22:59:36 | preglow | yeah, i thought that was a broadcast limitation |
| 22:59:53 | preglow | no reason to comply to that when we're just encoding for decoding on a dap? |
| 23:00 |
| 23:01:06 | jhMikeS | you'll compress the color dynamic range then |
| 23:01:09 | * | preglow wonders why mpegplayer takes so long in pausing |
| 23:01:50 | * | jhMikeS need to finish his mpegplayer revisions and everything will be "instant". |
| 23:04:10 | preglow | what other numbers are displayed when displauy fps is on? |
| 23:04:29 | jhMikeS | dropped frames and sequence number |
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| 23:05:42 | | Part przemhb |
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| 23:14:38 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 23:33:24 | stripwax | Does anyone have time to try out the sliding_puzzle patch? Or anything else needs doing now before it could be committed? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7218 |
| 23:33:46 | stripwax | I've just updated it with a few more tweaks and using the HAVE_ALBUMART as discussed previously |
| 23:34:36 | kri | hi |
| 23:34:42 | stripwax | hi |
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| 23:47:26 | PaulJam | little question, with the new settings system for the backlight timeout, would it be possible to set the backlight timeout to several hours via the .cfg file? |
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| 23:53:50 | DrCrow_ | Does anyone here know anything about the zvmport? |
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| 23:55:11 | XavierGr | Gigabeat MES30/60VK is supposed to be Gigabeat S? |
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| 23:57:15 | toffe82 | XavierGr: yes, not sure what 60vk means but mes30 is a gigabeat s with a 30gb hdd |
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| 23:58:45 | toffe82 | XavierGr: the mes60vk is the gigabeat S with a 60 Gb hdd |
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