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#rockbox log for 2007-12-06

00:00:01 Quit pondlife (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:00:14preglowamiconn: but then again, making the binary relocate itself shouldn't be much bother either
00:01:06 Join mud-rb [0] (
00:01:07Nico_PLlorean: I just read about real's response, quite good news :)
00:01:16Nico_Phave you set up a phone meeting time?
00:01:21amiconnNext one, as I think we should do it on all targets. The G5/G5.5 30GB vs. 60/80GB isn't the only target with variable ram size, there are also H120 vs. H100, and even stock vs. 8MB-modded archoses
00:01:42 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:02:00preglowamiconn: h120/h100 has other changes too, right?
00:02:04amiconnOn archos, there is no bootloader, we use the archos loader. Telling it to load rockbox at an offset might be tricky, or even impossible....
00:02:07preglowamiconn: would be cool having them as one binary, though
00:02:17amiconnpreglow: The only other difference is the spdif enable polarity
00:02:26preglowamiconn: well, that makes it clear, then, binary should relocate itself. doesn't sound too hard to me
00:02:26 Quit karashata ("I'm a fluffy dragon, anyone who gets in my way will be snuggled to death!")
00:02:51Zagorhere is some information around why linux kernel modules must be GPL-compatible:
00:02:57amiconnNo, but relocating the major part of the binary increases boot time
00:03:08preglowamiconn: should be negligible
00:03:14 Join J3TC- [0] (
00:03:17 Join karashata [0] (n=Kimi@
00:03:24amiconnZagor: I don't want to know why kernel modules need to be gpl compatible, but why applications don't
00:03:38Zagoramiconn: because applications aren't linked to linux
00:03:43amiconnThey still interact with the os in the end, because without the os, they could not be run
00:03:52Zagorinteraction is not derivation
00:04:23LloreanAlright, I should be speaking with him sometime between 1:30 and 2:00 PST tomorrow
00:05:19preglowLlorean: extremely cool, looking forward to hearing about it
00:06:04Zagoramiconn: also the parts that applications link (libc for example) is LGPL and not GPL
00:06:16mud-rbthere's some info in the GPL FAQ here that's sort of related: basically GNU seems to think it depends on what form the interaction between modules takes
00:06:46Lloreanpreglow: I certainly hope he at least has some ideas we haven't explored. :)
00:07:33 Quit Robin0800 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:07:33fenugrecAnyone have the Sigmatel SDK for STMP3600 devices ? While I'm at it, the STMP3650 datasheet?
00:07:41Shaidwhat time is it PST at the moment?
00:08:56*amiconn recommends /ctcp time :)
00:09:25 Join einhirn [0] (
00:10:10krazykitor google ;-)
00:10:22*Nico_P likes
00:11:24 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
00:11:42 Part karashata
00:12:10 Join webguest29 [0] (i=4a487928@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:12:38 Join karashata [0] (n=Kimi@
00:14:02webguest29Hi, I've been using rockbox on a Toshiba Gigabeat F40 for a couple months, but the thing has been acting funny lately, freezing, lagging etc. I want to wipe the drive clean and start over, is there a special way to do this?
00:15:22markunwebguest29: completely replace .rockbox and GBSYSTE/FWIMG/FWIMG02.DAT
00:15:37markunother things shouldn't matter
00:16:57webguest29Thank you, markun.
00:17:04 Join ken [0] (
00:17:57markunif you don't plan to boot back into the original firmware, you can replace the whole GBSYSTEM folder with a dummy one from our wiki
00:18:00 Quit advcomp2019 ("Ex-Chat")
00:18:38kenI posted the Gigabeat flash disk conversion on the forums. Anybody have any ideas about sector read errors?
00:19:01Zagorken: after sleep?
00:19:02markunwebguest29: but FWIMG02.DAT is not included in that zip file, so you need to download it separately
00:19:32kenI commented out the sleep code in ata.c just like was suggested for the ipod mini with flash.
00:19:54 Part Daolan
00:20:10 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:20:23 Join advcomp2019 [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
00:20:36kenI got the error during a database operation, and sometimes during bootup (check sum error reported)
00:20:46webguest29markun: that would explain why I haven't been able to find it!! Thank you again.
00:21:18markunwebguest29: oops, should have been FWIMG01.DAT
00:21:24Zagorken: if would be nice to get a hexdump of the IDENTIFY sector/response from your flash.
00:21:32 Join magenpie [0] (n=magpie@
00:21:41markunwebguest29: most info should be in here:
00:21:52kenzagor: how do I get that?
00:22:25Zagorken: you need to modify the code a bit. can you program a little?
00:22:34magenpiehi people...i'm sure this question has been asked a lot...but i just got a new sansa e280 from Dell 1/2hr ago and it's v2
00:22:43magenpiei'm so bummed
00:23:09kenzagor: sure (I'm a software engineer)
00:23:09magenpieis there any hope for me to have rockbox at some point in 2008? lol
00:23:22magenpiei'm really tempted to send it back
00:23:24krazykitmagenpie, then you're currently out of luck. there is some work being done, but there is NO timeline
00:23:41magenpiety for quick reply
00:23:43 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:24:14magenpiei had done a little research and felt pretty confident that i would be getting v1
00:24:46Zagorken: ok good. write a small function that creates a file and writes the ata.c:identify_info buffer to it.
00:24:57markunmagenpie: it might happen soon, it might not. Hard to predict right now.
00:24:59magenpieit might be difficult for any online seller to be able to tell me which version i would be getting
00:25:26krazykitmagenpie, refurbs and ebay would give you the best bets, most likely
00:25:45Zagorken: you can call it for example in apps/main.c:app_main() just after init()
00:26:00kenZagor: I guess I just don't know where the identify_info is located. I'm not that familar with the CF hardware.
00:26:29Zagorken: it's a buffer in the ata driver. it's already read out from the disk by rockbox. you simply have to save the variable content.
00:27:02Zagorata driver: firmware/drivers/ata.c
00:27:15kenzagor: Do you know the variable name, or what I can search for in the file.
00:27:40Zagorstatic unsigned short identify_info[SECTOR_SIZE];
00:28:06 Quit mud-rb_ (Connection timed out)
00:29:18kenzagor: sounds like the mbr/partition table. I can read that by connecting the player to my computer and dd'ing the raw device to a file.
00:30:55Zagorno, that's not it. the buffer is the response to the IDENTIFY ata command. it contains lots of technical information about the disk and it's capabilities.
00:33:17kenzagor: ok, that makes sense. I'll look through the ata.c file later and figure out how to capture that and write it to a file. Maybe I can add that to the debug menu, or just do it the first time the main menu is displayed.
00:34:25Zagorken: since it's a one-time thing I'd call it in app_main() in apps/main.c, just after init(). then boot it once and you're done.
00:35:10kenzagor: actually I wonder if that is somehow available from the usb storage driver such that hacking fdisk would expose it?
00:35:36Zagoralso it's not something you need to capture. just fd=open("identify.txt"); write(fd,identify_info,512); close(fd)
00:35:53amiconnHaha, .txt
00:36:11Zagorheh, too fast fingers :)
00:36:27 Quit kubiix (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:36:36amiconn.bin would be appropriate. But still, it's an easy thing to do
00:36:45Zagorken: yes, but usb storage is scsi so it translates that block into a scsi INQUIRY response first. the raw buffer would be better.
00:37:16amiconnZagor: Regarding the hen-and-egg problem of a gdb stub - we do have a gdb stub for SH (which I even used a bit quite some time ago)
00:37:23 Quit karashata (" HydraIRC -> <- Would you like to know more?")
00:37:34Zagoramiconn: yes I know. the hen-and-egg problem was regarding gdb over usb
00:37:48kenzagor: yeah standard file creation calls. looks like rockbox io calls are similar to 'nix in syntax. That's good, standard C. Yeah, I forgot about the scsi layer in there.
00:38:23amiconnWith that, the stub has to be loaded first, which can be done either via the serial rom monitor, or by booting it like a normal firmware
00:38:28 Join karashata [0] (n=Kimi@
00:38:44amiconnThe latter would also work for usb if I am not missing something
00:39:48amiconnSo there is in fact no hen-and-egg problem
00:40:28amiconnThe stub is booted like you'd normally boot rockbox, then connected to gdb via serial-over-usb. Gdb would then transfer the main binary, and start it
00:40:31kenzagor: is that your rockbox user id? I won't get to hacking the thing tonight, but I can post the dump to the forum or send you a message on rockbox.
00:41:05Zagoryes, zagor is my username in the forum
00:41:13 Quit ender` (" Sleep, n An inadequate substitute for caffeine")
00:41:14kenzagor: my rockbox id is scharkalvin (I posted the gigabeat flash conversion thread in the hw forum)
00:41:30 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
00:42:28 Join l7 [0] (
00:42:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:43:17Zagoramiconn: yeah I guess it could be made to work.
00:45:22*Nico_P reads about a cloverflow clone for rockbox:
00:45:41Nico_Pthat blog post was published on planetKDE
00:46:03scorche|whrm...why dont they at least mention it to us?
00:46:19Nico_Papparently a guy from trolltech did it
00:46:36 Join alanic [0] (
00:46:53alanichow do I boot my ipod with its original firmware?
00:47:31Shaidhold down menu as you turn it on
00:47:43LloreanNico_P: Made a patch, and then completely neglected to post it anywhere or discuss it anywhere around us?
00:48:04Nico_PLlorean: me? :p
00:48:26alanicShaid: sweet, thanks.
00:48:43LloreanNico_P: Whoever made the coverflow plugin. I'm curious why he's not on our forums or the patch tracker, y'know?
00:48:53Nico_Pno idea, no
00:48:53*pixelma wants to see the coverflow on an Archos Jukebox, as the last paragraph suggests ;D
00:48:59 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00:49:09alanicShaid: I wanted that just because it seems I can't listen to music with rockbox while it's charging...
00:49:11*scorche|w cant see the site...damn websense =/
00:49:12Lloreanpixelma: Shiny reflections and all?
00:49:16Nico_P"The code needs some polish, before I dare to release it"
00:49:27Nico_Pthat's in the youtube video description
00:49:27LloreanI hate that statement so much.
00:49:30pixelmaLlorean: sure, everything :)
00:49:58scorche|wugh...not another youtube video...we are going to get tons of "i saw rockbox did xxxx on youtube!"
00:49:59ShaidI'm pretty sure there's a way to tell it to only charge on usb connection, alanic
00:50:03ShaidI just don't remember it right now.
00:50:31Lloreanpixelma: I want to see it on the c200, with tiny, tiny cover art images.
00:50:55Nico_PI hope he added the buggering API to the plugin API to load the AA :)
00:51:09Nico_Por buffering... :p
00:51:23LloreanIt probably uses compiled in images at the moment.
00:51:24scorche|wbuggering works too =P
00:51:56LloreanI'd do the algorithm first, then worry about actually making it use album art. :)
00:52:07pixelmaLlorean: album art looks kinda decorative in 40x40 (I tried) but you would need to know the cover very well - only in rare case you can read album title or artist :)
00:52:17LloreanNico_P: Could album art be stored in, and retreived from, the database?
00:52:25Llorean"Coverflow" if it happens, could be a database only feature.
00:52:26Nico_PLlorean: no
00:52:30LloreanWhy not?
00:52:59Nico_Poops I misunderstood, sorry. maybe it could, but it would make the database much larger
00:53:23LloreanYes, I'm sure
00:53:35LloreanBut we could just index the filenames perhaps
00:53:37Nico_Pstoring paths to AA could work though
00:54:02 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:54:25LloreanFor coverflow to work, you'd need a list of albums, and a list of cover bitmaps associated with each of those albums, which pretty much requires either the database, or coverflow to generate its own database (or scan on every run, ick)
00:55:07 Quit animeloe_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:56:16Nico_Pstoring the AA path for each album would be super sweet. I can already see a nice album selection screen
00:56:41 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:56:45alanicShaid: ooh I need to hold menu button while inserting cable.
00:56:59 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:57:16 Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:57:32 Join advcomp2019 [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
00:58:14peturif I call lcd_puts_style_offset() with y = 5 and style = 0xa0000501, why doesn't it paint the gradient?
01:00:34 Join linuxstb [0] (
01:01:18*petur looks at Nico_P
01:02:27Nico_Ppetur: gradient style is 0x80000000
01:02:28*linuxstb looks at the youtube video and is impressed with pictureflow
01:02:48Nico_Ppetur: you need to use the values defined in lcd.h
01:03:10peturNico_P: just saw that and tried with 80000000 - still the same :(
01:03:16Lloreanlinuxstb: It's certainly very shiny.
01:03:20Nico_Plinuxstb: I'm trying to find contact info for the guy who ported it
01:04:36Nico_Ppetur: you need to indicate the gradient style, the number of lines and the current line. see list.c:378
01:05:00linuxstbThe original pictureflow source appears to be here -
01:06:12peturNico_P: I do, the endresult is 0x80000501 (line 5, height 1)
01:06:19 Quit animeloe (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:06:54 Part alanic ("Konversation terminated!")
01:07:45*petur thinks Angel Dust from Faith No More is a good cover to start a demo :)
01:08:27Nico_Ppetur: the 5 shouldn't be a 5
01:08:54Nico_Pthis value is used when more than one line is selected
01:09:46peturI'm not following
01:09:52Nico_Punless your selection is 5 lines... you probably want that value to be 1
01:10:08peturisn't this CURLN_PACK ?
01:10:15Nico_Pyou use MAXLN_PACK to tell the gradient code how much lines the gradient will span over
01:10:22peturI do
01:10:45Nico_Phmm yeah sorry, but the issue is the same. CURLN is 1 too
01:11:11Nico_PI'm confused
01:12:00Nico_Ppetur: sorry, I think I need A couple minutes alone with the code :)
01:12:38peturmaybe tomorrow then, I need some sleep...
01:13:40preglowlinuxstb: i've removed some of the stuff lear put in to fix aac at times because things work better now, should i just commit the sync and see if it breaks for people or wait for lear to verify his files still work? all my files do, at least
01:14:15preglowlinuxstb: faad has such a short revision log that it should be fast to check if any old fixes are still applied
01:14:44Nico_Ppetur: I think the value needs to be 1
01:14:50Nico_Pcould you try with that?
01:14:57peturjust a sec
01:14:58 Quit fenugrec ("Leaving")
01:16:17peturNico_P: yup
01:16:19 Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:16:29 Join advcomp2019 [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
01:16:36peturNico_P: this is _very_ confusing and illogical imho
01:16:57Nico_Ppetur: the CURLN indicates the number of the line within the selection
01:17:06Nico_Pbut I got confused too
01:17:54Nico_Pthe CURLN only relates to the gradient, not to the position of the text on the screen
01:18:15peturis it not 0 based?
01:18:28 Join Gnu47_ [0] (
01:19:34Nico_PI agree it probably should be
01:20:20peturhmmm what values does it need for a 2 line gradient? both set to 2 ?
01:20:46 Quit Gnu47 (Nick collision from services.)
01:20:49 Nick Gnu47_ is now known as Gnu47 (
01:20:55Nico_Ppetur: yes, for the second line
01:21:11Nico_Pthe first would have MAXLN=2 and CURLN=1
01:21:23 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
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01:24:02peturI'll need to wrap my brain around that concept, maybe it works better tomorrow
01:24:10 Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
01:25:31 Join Mouser_X [0] (n=mouser_x@
01:26:38 Quit l7 ("Lost terminal")
01:27:24 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
01:32:41*Nico_P found an email address for Jonas Hurrelmann, the guy who ported pictureflow
01:33:24*amiconn is undecided whether he should laugh, cry, or do something yet different regarding this coverflow stuff
01:34:04Nico_Pamiconn: what's the problem with it? it runs as a plugin and pleases some people
01:34:26amiconnI mean in general...
01:34:45Nico_Pah... people like eye candy :)
01:35:28amiconnApart from that, I am curious how this plugin manages memory in order to not stop playback and at the same time not eat the battery by spinning the disk all the time
01:35:57Lloreanamiconn: I'm still betting that the plugin in the video just has the images either compiled in, or loaded into a static buffer at startup.
01:36:24Nico_Pamiconn: we could imagine it using the AA bitmaps loaded for the current tracks :)
01:36:30preglowwhat the hell
01:36:35*preglow sees pictureflow
01:36:39LloreanA demonstration of the algorithm rather than of it actually working.
01:36:48*amiconn likes stability, usability, efficiency, and functionality, roughly in that order
01:37:05amiconnEyecandy comes at the low low end
01:37:19preglowlooks really nice, it does
01:37:38LloreanWell the math for it ought to be pretty simple.
01:37:55amiconnAnd I bet I can select an album a 100 times faster from a list than from those album thumbnails
01:37:57LloreanI mean Doom does pretty much the same thing, on a larger scale.
01:38:04preglowit is
01:38:12 Quit animeloe (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:38:16 Quit ken ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12")
01:38:33preglowthe drawing is the easy part, really, buffering images fast enough is the hard part :>
01:38:43amiconnHeck, for many albums I have I don't even remember how the cover looks like... because I bought it, ripped it, and put it away
01:39:07mud-rbyeah, coverflow seems like one of those things i'd appreciate a lot more if i actually knew any of the cover art for my music
01:39:39Nico_Pamiconn: I think you'll agree that your inclinations are quite different from most of the people who use rockbox nowadays :)
01:40:00preglowi'd probably use pictureflow every once in a while
01:40:03preglowbut just for the novelty of it
01:40:04PaulJamit certainly looks nice, but i don't really see the practical purpose. i have ~300 albums on my device and wouldn't want to seek through 300 pictures to find an album.
01:40:37preglowyeah, it's wildly impractical if you actually know what music you have
01:41:03 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:41:39Mouser_XI removed all the album art on my Gigabeat, to make more room for music...
01:41:49*preglow would love album art
01:41:57pixelmapreglow: and then it would not help at all if you don't even know what music you have...
01:41:59preglowbut i can't be bothered to resize all of it
01:42:11Nico_Ppreglow: it's easy as pie with a little script
01:42:42preglowpixelma: well, i've picked up several cds after liking their cover and listening to them because of that, the same applies here if you don't know what music you have :)
01:42:42amiconnThat's one problem with current daps... instead of increasing capacity, they become loaded with hundreds of nearly-useless to completely useless additional features
01:42:43Nico_Pthe AA wiki page even has examples
01:42:58LloreanHas anyone used the Coverflow feature on an actual apple device? Does it then let you pick tracks? Can you queue an album? Or is it just a method for playing whole "discs"
01:43:03Mouser_Xamiconn: My thoughts are pretty close to yours, in regards to stuff. However, "looking pretty" is probably higher on my scale than yours. The stuff you listed is certainly among the first though.
01:43:08*amiconn would *love* to see rockbox ported to the ipod classic - above all for the storage capacity
01:43:18*preglow too
01:43:20Nico_Pamiconn: it's easier and cheaper to write useless features than to increase the storage capacity
01:43:38amiconnWell apple actually does both
01:43:47PaulJamMouser_X: and how much additional space did you get? my covers only take 10MB of disk space.
01:44:11amiconnThey have (afaik) the largest capacity hdd based dap, as well as the largest capacity flash based dap (although with a crappy touch interface)
01:44:25Nico_Pyeah apple on the classic would be sweet. we can hope those HDD will spread though
01:44:56amiconnNico_P: The 160GB hdd from the classic doesn't fit any of our targets
01:45:00Mouser_XPaulJam: No idea, but I figure, if I'm not using it, why waste the space? Not only that, but I have tons of small file types. With 10 MB, I can easily fit 1-7 days worth of music.
01:45:05amiconnIt's CE-ATA
01:45:41preglowhcs: and all of that metadata is handled in metadata/spc.c?
01:46:11hcspreglow: yes. nsf/nsfe is going to need some work in that regard, though
01:46:26preglowhcs: yep
01:46:28Nico_Pamiconn: couldn't the manufacturers build 160 GB disks that use other interfaces?
01:46:52amiconnOf course they could - the question is whether they'll do, and I bet they won't
01:47:03amiconnSeeing what happened on the 2.5" front...
01:47:20hcspreglow: I figured I should fix what's dead simple now rather than waiting for time to do the other right
01:47:31amiconn...there will soon be 300GB 2.5" hdds, but all new ones are SATA, PATA stopped at 160GB ...
01:47:50preglowhcs: remember to close the bug report, then
01:48:06preglowunless you already did, i can't remember
01:48:29hcspreglow: doh, I'd forgotten about it
01:48:33preglowamiconn: ce-ata?
01:49:53 Quit moos ("nighty")
01:49:57 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
01:49:59preglowhcs: can you close bug reports?
01:50:30amiconnpreglow: ATA via serial protocol (MMC). There are versions with 12-pin and 18-pin connectors
01:50:41preglowamiconn: bah
01:50:54hcspreglow: yes. I just meant I should've included a reference to the FS# in the commit message
01:51:13preglowhcs: that's ok
01:57:46*Nico_P emailed the pictureflow guy
01:57:50 Join Shaid` [0] (
01:58:11Nico_Pbedtime now
01:58:24 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:58:25 Part toffe82
01:58:35*jott is the pictureflow guy :)
01:59:06hcsooh, let's see you and amiconn duke it out
02:01:34 Join Clint [0] (
02:01:58safetydanjott: so you'll be posting it on the tracker soon then? :)
02:02:50 Join barrywardell [0] (
02:02:53Clintare there known issues with tags in vorbiscomments being ignored after certain positions/characters/tags?
02:04:08 Join Shaid3 [0] (
02:04:37jottsafetydan: yes.. this weekend ;)
02:04:44 Quit Shaid (Nick collision from services.)
02:04:45 Nick Shaid3 is now known as Shaid (
02:05:00safetydanClint: there will be a size limit at least
02:05:08 Join Eastwood [0] (i=54bd57db@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:05:37Clintsafetydan: are there practical reasons for that?
02:07:08 Quit Eastwood (Client Quit)
02:07:15safetydanClint: yup. Only so much space is allocated to storing metadata. If we allow too much space for metadata, then we waste memory.
02:07:55Clintsafetydan: what about discarding the tags i don't care about?
02:08:17 Quit barrywardell ()
02:08:32safetydanalready done as far as I can see. Rockbox only stores the tags it uses.
02:08:59Clintso the issue I'm having involves ARTIST/ALBUM/TITLE not being picked up unless they're early on in the comment block
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02:09:09 Join barrywardell [0] (
02:09:25safetydanah that
02:09:45Clintdifferent issue?
02:10:59safetydanYes. I thought you were talking about per comment limits, not total comment block size limits.
02:11:27safetydanIt's a similar issue though. There's only so much space to read metadata in to memory. So if your tag is outside that size then it won't be read in.
02:12:19safetydanat the moment, all metadata for a track must fit inside 300 bytes otherwise it will be truncated
02:15:03Lloreansafetydan: But this wouldn't affect if you had less than 300 bytes, but it was late in the track, right?
02:15:12*Llorean wonders why we have the 300 byte limit now.
02:15:28LloreanEr, late in the block
02:16:14Clintmy vorbiscomments are frequently several K, and artist/album/title are not always in the first 300 bytes
02:16:57safetydanLlorean: if your metadata is less than 300 bytes you're all good. The limit could probably go away with mob, but might require some refactoring because of hwcodec
02:17:30Clintwhat's mob?
02:17:37safetydanmetadata on buffer
02:17:57safetydanshould help with removing limits like the one you're encountering
02:18:01Lloreansafetydan: Ah, yes, hwcodec.
02:18:07Clintis this a subproject?
02:18:29LloreanClint: As Dan said, as long as the portion of the comment block that's actually "used" is less than 300 bytes, you should be fine, from the sound of it.
02:18:34safetydanno it's a change made to how rockbox loads files and something that's already been done
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02:19:17ClintLlorean: that's not the case in practice, and I hardly want to rewrite all my tags just for rockbox
02:19:23safetydanLlorean: everything in Vorbis metadata is a comment. So the entire set of comments must be less than 300 bytes if I'm reading things correctly.
02:20:13LloreanClint: Then don't. Submit a patch to fix the problem.
02:21:02Clintokay; should I be looking in apps/metadata?
02:21:19*Llorean wonders what safetydan's actually was about
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02:21:21safetydanah, this seems to be a different problem
02:22:05safetydanI think what's going on is that the metadata block for Clint's files spans multiple ogg packets
02:22:17safetydanthe metadata parsing code at the moment only looks at the first comment packet
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02:25:49Clintthe comment packets need to be sequential, yes?
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02:27:54safetydanClint: I'd say yes but I don't know if that's a requirement of the Ogg stream. Either way, Rockbox isn't handling comment blocks that span multiple packets.
02:29:16Clintsafetydan: thanks, i'll read up on formats
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02:30:51safetydanhrm, it's around 1 am for linuxstb so I guess he won't be able to answer questions about the Vorbis comment parsing then
02:33:13safetydanlinuxstb: am I right in thinking that the vorbis tag reading code will not deal with comment blocks spanning multiple Ogg packets?
02:33:22safetydan(for the logs)
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03:10:40DinoismeHey, anyone have screens of RockBox?
03:10:51DinoismeDon't want to download before I see it. :P
03:10:58LloreanTry the manual...
03:11:45Dinoisme/me checks the manual.
03:11:52DinoismeAh, yes, found it.
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03:48:27Acyd9hey. can anyone help me out?
03:49:07Acyd9i got rockbox on my ipod right? well.. i know i can hold menu to boot up original apple software.. any way to get a boot menu to pop up each time i power the ipod on?
03:49:17LloreanNot with the Rockbox bootloader.
03:49:30LloreanYou'd need to install unsupported software, an alternate bootloader
03:49:38Acyd9any suggestions?
03:50:25LloreanIpodLinux's Loader2 provides a menu, but we don't provide support for it and may ask you to reinstall our bootloader before filing bug reports.
03:51:03Acyd9Ah. Ok. Thank you. :)
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05:25:10nonehello i need some help trying to get rockbox working properly
05:25:18noneon my mrobe 500
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05:25:35noneim trying to figure out a small bug
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05:27:05Raginghi everybody
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05:27:33JdGordonnice work Bagder
05:27:43tuxnetadmin2iwhen i try to play audio my mrobe 500 with rockbox locks up and i have to remove the battery
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05:27:47Lloreantuxnetadmin2: The mrobe isn't a working / supported target yet.
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05:28:17LloreanThat's why it's not listed on the front page, and isn't available as a precompiled binary.
05:28:22Ragingi just got a sansa c240 yesterday and discovered rockbox by accident (i wanted to put music on it with my ubuntu box)
05:28:30JdGordontuxnetadmin2: if you have the remote, you can reset it with (IIRC heart, select and play)
05:28:40Ragingis it easy to put rockbox on?
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05:28:56Mouser_XRaging: Yes, it's easy. Read the manual.
05:28:58Ragingthe instructions look pretty clear
05:29:01LloreanRaging: There's a manual with instructions, whether you consider it easy is more or less up to you.
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05:29:31Mouser_XWell, it was easy for me, but I had the e250. The installation is probably slightly different..
05:29:38LloreanMouser_X: Nah
05:29:46Mouser_XAh, that's nice to know.
05:29:49Lloreanc200 and e200 (non-R) are identical for installation process, pretty much
05:29:51Ragingi'll prolly get a biased answer, but does it run better with rockbox than the orig setup?
05:30:04Mouser_XThat depends on "better."
05:30:09alienbiker99yes =)
05:30:09LloreanWith the only significant difference being some c200 firmware versions don't have an MTP/MSC option.
05:30:24Ragingi already fixed that part
05:30:30Ragingdowngrading was quite easy
05:30:32LloreanRaging: Shorter battery life until we learn some things about the hardware we still haven't been able to figure out, but basically better in every other way
05:30:50Ragingooh, good to know
05:30:58Mouser_XNo USB support (yet).
05:31:12LloreanYeah, but I wouldn't consider that a problem since Dual Boot is around
05:31:15tuxnetadmin2i know its unsupported i set up a cross compiler im trying to figure out where to start i think for now ill stick with playing around with opie on my mrobe
05:31:18LloreanJust a minor inconvenience.
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05:31:43Mouser_XLlorean: True, but it is a difference worth note. Just not a big one.
05:32:00Ragingis it simple enough to use that i would be able to give a 10 year old
05:32:51Ragingany difficulty in adding music after switching to rockbox?
05:33:15LloreanJust drag 'n drop
05:33:26LloreanRockbox features a filetree browser, or a database that the device itself can generate.
05:33:30DogBoyI never used the original firmware once
05:33:39LloreanAs for "Simple enough for a 10 year old", that depends heavily on the 10 year old.
05:34:21LloreanI have a 10 year old nephew who could use it without problem.
05:34:38LloreanBut we do from time to time get users who claim it's far too complicated for any human, and the directions appear to have been written by a monkey.
05:34:41LloreanSo opinions vary
05:34:48Ragingthat seems worth giving up some battery life
05:36:16Ragingthank you all
05:36:27webguest71so... i got rockbox on my ipod (photo/color) and like when i mount, it reverts to ipod's firmware to make the connection (after i see the rockbox usb icon for a second) is this normal? is there some type of driver in need to install on my windows box?
05:37:15Shaidit's normal
05:37:20psycho_maniacwebguest71: that is normal
05:37:39webguest71hah ok. just wondering (could've been in the manual someplace)
05:37:51webguest71so you just drag ur music to your music folder and rebuild ur db?
05:37:57Ragingif this goes horribly wrong (unplugging while transferring or something) is it toast?
05:38:49JdGordondont unplug it
05:38:58advcomp2019Raging, not really but dont tho
05:39:08LloreanRaging: The c200 is a remarkably durable gadget, from a software perspective. While you can cause it not to boot by corrupting the "disk", or worse, it should pretty much always be recoverable if you can follow instructions well enough
05:39:52webguest71i like rockbox, but it's almost too customizable. i see myself spending hours on a theme :(
05:40:13Ragingi got 3 cuz they were cheap... i'll keep 2... one to use, one to abuse
05:40:53webguest71.. how do i get album art working?
05:40:56Ragingadvcomp2019 are you James?
05:41:44advcomp2019Raging, heh
05:42:07HeroinHerojames who? I'm a james! its a common fricken name!
05:44:11webguest71so if i want to use the standard ipod interface, i unload the bootloader?
05:44:13RagingHeroinHero, sorry for any confusion. I know advcomp2019 IRL
05:44:25webguest71<−− sorry if i'm asking n00b questions
05:44:42Lloreanwebguest71: You can boot into the original firmware, or remove Rockbox wholly yes. Might I suggest the manual?
05:45:26tuxnetadmin2The mrobe port is going to keep me busy for a while i work for a company that makes transponders for cable and telecom power supplies so ive learned a little about embeded development and alot about pic microcontrollers but thanks to rockbox i have something new to experiment with and learn about
05:46:03tuxnetadmin2what is the most recommended mp3 player to use with rockbox
05:46:13webguest71thanks: I got RTFM ADD, i start looking and i get sidetracked
05:47:46krazykittuxnetadmin2, look up the BuyersGuide on the wiki
05:50:49tuxnetadmin2opps sorry ill i didnt notice the line about unsupported builds are considered off topic im going to go to the community channel
05:50:50*Mouser_X suggests the Gigabeat, but that's his opion.
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05:55:10*psycho_maniac also suggess the gigabeat but its his opinion also
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06:03:07Awarehey everyone. could someone tell me why the new usb stack was committed if it doesn't provide full functionality yet? i can see new users getting quite confused
06:03:55mud-rb_because it provides better charging (except it crashes for me every time)
06:04:52Awarewhat is the point of better charging if you can't transfer any files?
06:05:03LloreanSo you can charge while listening...
06:05:18LloreanAware: Rockbox is in-development software. Code gets committed so that people can work on it, not JUST so that people can use it.
06:05:23Mouser_XSounds good to me (pun unintended).
06:05:36LloreanIf you don't want to be confused by changes, don't update again until a release version comes out, if ever.
06:05:42mud-rb_the OF for sansa is really obnoxious. any way i can avoid booting into it, i do (it really really likes to refresh its database for 10+ minutes every boot)
06:06:34*Mouser_X has about 16 MP3s on his e250. Everything else is oddball formats.
06:07:32mud-rb_i should probably change all of my files to .mpa extension or something, but i haven't gotten around to it yet...and my computer doesn't recognize those i don't think
06:07:53LloreanTeaching a computer to recognize a new extension is usually rather easy
06:08:15mud-rb_yeah, it's laziness more than anything
06:08:27Mouser_XUsually, but one time it seriously screwed things up, and I couldn't fix it..
06:11:28AwareLlorean: Charge while listening to what?
06:11:58LloreanYour music?
06:11:59Mouser_XAware: The Sansa will charge over the USB port in Rockbox, while listeneing to music.
06:12:37LloreanAware: You are aware, as per the manual, you can boot into the original firmware to transfer data, right?
06:15:02AwareGood point.
06:15:18LloreanThe new stack didn't remove any functionality, just added.
06:19:35AwareI understand now. The only problem is the folders that the iPod automatically creates on first boot which are useless to me.
06:20:57LloreanWell, complain to Apple about that one
06:23:00psycho_maniacor just get rid of your ipod ;)
06:23:23AwareI would like to.
06:24:08AwareAt the time it was the best value hard disk player available.
06:24:30AwareThat was Rockboxable, of course.
06:26:30psycho_maniaci remember i waited for the 5.5 80gb support and when that happened, THAT DAY, i went out and bought one. now i wish i never did and am happy with my gigabeat :)
06:28:20AwareHeh. I assume your gigabeat is 60 GB?
06:28:55Mouser_XAware: psycho_maniac's Gigabeat is a F80 (he added a larger drive).
06:29:03Mouser_XMine is the F40.
06:29:27psycho_maniacyes i own a F80 :)
06:30:23AwareNice. When's the upgrade to F160 going to come? :)
06:32:20Mouser_XNever. There's no drives compatible to the Gigabeat F in that size.
06:32:36Mouser_XFor the Gigabeat X there might be, but I don't remember.
06:32:48Mouser_X80 GB is the largest drive you can get for the F.
06:33:25psycho_maniacuhh the X you can go to 100. I think.
06:35:47AwareDon't they all take 1.8" drives?
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06:37:56scorcheAware: they dont have "one" interface
06:38:15scorchethere are actually quite a few now days
06:39:19AwareI see. Is there any good reason for that?
06:39:45LloreanReally, ZIF is an improvement because it's easier to insert/remove.
06:39:53LloreanI'm not sure about this CE-ATA but I imagine there's a reason
06:41:16LloreanI think the purpose of CE-ATA is to reduce the number of pins, and connector size.
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06:47:23Ragingi love rockbox
06:48:04AwareYou're right. So which DAPs use which interface?
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06:50:15Ragingi wish i wasn't poor. i would give more than $5
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06:50:41Mouser_XHad I credit card, I'd give at least $20.
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07:25:05dirtdawgHi. I let my iPod nano play until it died, then recharged it as normal. However, when I try to boot into Rockbox, I get an error that says it "can't load rockbox ipod: Read failed(image)". If I reboot, then enter disk mode as it instructs, I get only the "OK to discinnect" screen with the green arrow. If I reboot normally, it hangs on the Apple Logo. The Apple partition boots normally. Does anyone here know how I could remedy this p
07:26:36dirtdawgI should add the ipod is currently disconnected. If I connect, then reboot into disk mode, I get the normal "do not disconnect", but upon ejecting, it freezes again on the "okay to disconnect" screen.
07:27:35Mouser_Xdirtdawg: You got cut off at "Does anyone here know how I could remedy this p" I assume you finished with "problem?"
07:27:59Mouser_XAll I can suggest is to run a disk checking utility on it.
07:29:10dirtdawgMouser_x Thank you. The problem is simply that I would like to boot into Rockbox normally. What would I be looking for with the dick check? A corrupt partition?
07:29:27dirtdawgohno! I meant "disk check" Sorry :)
07:30:05Mouser_XPretty much. Did something go bad? Are there corrupted files? Stuff like that.
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07:30:35Mouser_XScandisk is what you'd use under Windows, I think.
07:30:56dirtdawgOkay. Well, I will hunt one down. Would reinstalling Rockbox solve the issue? I installed over a year ago and have been meaning to update anyways
07:31:10dirtdawgI use Ubuntu 7.04
07:32:05Mouser_XReinstalling would be a good idea.
07:32:53dirtdawgOkay, thank you very much.
07:33:55Mouser_XAs for whether it'd fix it or not, I don't know. But if it's nearly a year old, updating would a very good idea. Lots of problems have been fixed since then.
07:34:42dirtdawgCool. I will start there then. Thanks for your time.
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08:12:09mrkikoA question...
08:12:31mrkikoWhat should actually happen when rockbox played all the files on a folder and "autochange directory" is set to "yes" ?
08:13:27mrkikoMy H340 actually crashed...
08:14:23LloreanThe whole point of "Autochange directory" is to automatically change the directory when all the files in the folder are done.
08:14:25DogBoythat sounds right
08:15:12LloreanSo if it's not doing that, when you have repeat turned off, then it's a bug.
08:15:26mrkikoI don't know why, but when all those files finished, the player simply crashed, without ever spinning up the disk...
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08:16:40mrkikoyes, repeat was off...
08:16:49LinusNa lot of people have reported problems with the autochange, but afaik nobody has done any research
08:17:10mrkikobut I'l try to re-produce this problem when I arrive to my home at 16:30 today..
08:17:16LloreanWhy do we have autochange?
08:17:26LinusNLlorean: it's a requested feature
08:17:40LinusNa lazy man's play-it-all
08:18:15LinusNthe iriver OF has it, so many iriver users requested it back in the days
08:18:26mrkikoI have a feature request, but I think it is riddicolous, so I didn't post it: I would like rockbox to run under a supervisor-kind thing, so that if rockbox crashes the supervisor can still shutdown my player.
08:18:36LloreanI was an iRiver user back in the day, but I still prefer just playlisting everything
08:19:46LinusNmrkiko: not necessarily ridiculous, but still not easy to do
08:20:00LinusNLlorean: to each his own i guess
08:20:04LloreanI suppose
08:20:24LloreanOn iRiver at least, doesn't Rockbox shutdown from Illinstr and similar crashes?
08:20:39LinusNLlorean: yes, you can press Play to reboot
08:21:01mrkiko:) simply not :)
08:21:10Mouser_XSince I have more than 30,000 files (the current limit for playlists) the "Autochange" could be nice. I don't use it though.
08:21:34LloreanWhy do we have a playlist size limit?
08:21:46Mouser_XI thought it was a memory issue.
08:21:54LinusNit was/is
08:21:58LloreanBut I'm curious why it's necessary
08:22:06LloreanCan't we store the playlist filename, and say, 200 entries from it at any given time?
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08:22:23LinusNLlorean: try to shuffle that...
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08:22:50mrkikoLinusN: I think... the problem is that rockbox is not perfect...
08:23:09LloreanLinusN: So shuffle it, and store it in a temporary file in the .rockbox folder, similar to nvram.bin?
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08:24:16LloreanOr is that problematic too.
08:24:23LinusNthe playlist code was written to conserve memory, while still being efficient
08:24:46LloreanIt just seems to me like there should be a "less efficient, but still usable" case for when the list is too long.
08:25:13LloreanSimilar to when a folder is longer than the max list size, I'm curious why it doesn't spinup as you scroll down.
08:25:13mrkikoI was just too lazy to read things about "car adapter mode" and "party mode": what are they doing actually?
08:25:16LinusNprobably, or just increase the limit
08:25:44Lloreanmrkiko: Well, you could go read things about them now...
08:26:12LinusNmrkiko: car adapter mode handles start/restart of playback when the charger power comes and goes
08:26:16mrkikoyou're right ... )
08:26:19amiconnLlorean: When a folder is longer than the directory size limit, you simply don't see all entries
08:26:41Lloreanamiconn: I know. I'm curious why this is the way it works.
08:26:43LinusNmrkiko: party mode prevents accidental playback interruption
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08:27:11mrkikoLinusN: :)
08:27:19mrkikoI think I should try it
08:27:48amiconnLlorean: Because rockbox needs the folder entries in memory. Otherwise it could not display them sorted
08:28:13Lloreanamiconn: Ah, sorting. Gotcha
08:28:45LinusNthe same goes for playlists, actually. shuffling and sorting is a pain if you can't have it all in memory
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08:29:20amiconnAfaik, playlists are very memory efficient in that they store just one index value (4 bytes) per track in memory
08:29:50LinusNwe could easily increase the maximum limit if necessary
08:30:05LinusNand according to Mouser_X it is...
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08:30:19amiconnThe file browser, however, could be made more memory efficient, by using linked lists (like the database) instead of a simple array
08:30:39LinusNit doesn't?
08:31:14Mouser_XLinusN: I'd never make a 30,000+ playlist for actual use.
08:31:32Mouser_XFor searching, I've done that. But to actually listen to it? I wouldn't do that.
08:31:53LloreanLinusN: With 60/80gb drives and how tiny some of our formats are, I can easily imagine playlists of rather ridiculous size if someone wants to shuffle their whole collection
08:32:29Mouser_XVery true.
08:33:01amiconnLinusN: Iirc it uses some hybrid concept. An array holding all info, but just a pointer for the name, pointing into some kind of pool memory area
08:33:13*mrkiko wanting to debug rockbox
08:33:33LinusNamiconn: isn't that good enough?
08:33:56LinusNamiconn: ah, the index array is the limiting factor
08:33:58amiconnThis method adapts well to occasional very long names, as long as the average file name length isn't longer than some value
08:34:39GodEater_that's a pretty clever idea imo
08:34:45LinusNamiconn: as long as you use static memory allocation, you still have a limit
08:35:10LinusNlinked lists won't solve that
08:35:18amiconnLinusN: Yes, but that limit wouldn't enforce a maximum number of files
08:35:39LinusNas long as you fill the index array from the start and the string pool from the bottom
08:35:54LinusNthen you won't have a fixed limit
08:35:59amiconnIf the average filename is short, it could fit more entries than now into the same amount of ram
08:36:11LinusNyes, if you do as i described
08:36:56amiconnYes, or use linked lists. Maybe the top/bottom approach would be even more efficient.... not sure
08:37:11LinusNin fact, that's what i do in the sort plugin, sort.rock
08:37:59mrkikoAniway when the player crashes I noted it exhausts his battery very very quickly - may be the CPU is doing something ?
08:38:07mrkiko*something intensive ? *
08:38:31amiconnThe array + string pool needs one pointer (to the string) per entry. Linked lists wouldn't need that (the string could be tacked onto the end of the entry), but they need a pointer to the successor
08:38:45amiconnDouble linked lists would need 2 pointers, hmm
08:38:47LloreanSo the limit you set for playlist length is an approximate based on an average, and if you have long names it may end up shorter?
08:38:59amiconnLlorean: No
08:39:13LloreanOkay, it sounded like that from something you said
08:39:28amiconnThe playlist limit is fixed. The directory size limit is where you might end up with less entries if your average filenames are very long
08:39:36LloreanAh okay.
08:39:36LinusNLlorean: we're talking about the file browser
08:39:43LloreanGot lost somewhere
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08:40:06LloreanMaybe we should change the description to describe how much memory is reserved rather than the number of filenames, or at least make it clear it's an approximate?
08:41:09amiconnLlorean: I have never seen the browser hit the filename size limit, always the number-of-entries limit
08:41:30amiconnThat's why I am thinking about a way to use the reserved memory more efficiently
08:41:33Lloreanamiconn: There was someone I talked with one who was having some behaviour that might've actually been that.
08:41:46LloreanBut true, that was just once.
08:41:57amiconnAnd somehow I thought it is mentioned in the manual... didn't check though
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08:42:26LloreanMaybe it is mentioned in the manual. I'll admit I haven't looked at the description for that feature
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08:43:10HowdyDoodyHow do I force a re-build on the database in rockbox ? It rebuilt in Sansa software automatically when I logged in. Still not visible in rockbox.
08:45:35LloreanHowdyDoody: "Initialize Now" forces a complete rebuild, or should.
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08:50:12GodEater_Also, the sansa's database is not the same as the one rockbox uses. So the fact that the sansa firmware has built a database does not mean it should be present in Rockbox.
08:51:19HowdyDoodyLlorean, I can't find it in mine, what pull down is it under ?
08:51:40LloreanHowdyDoody: Please read the manual.
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09:09:13HowdyDoodyLlorean, Ok, finally found the pdf, man I had over 700 in that directory! Finnaly figured out the "Database Menu" was under "general settings". I choose update database to see if that is good enough for me.
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09:29:22HowdyDoodyTo all who wrote on the manual, Great Job! I especially like the details in the bookmarks, as I can find what I need fast without using the adobe search.
09:29:50rasherAny thoughts on FS #7637 (localising language names)?
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09:30:33rasherWith a few small fixes to buildzip (and possibly the "release" script as well), we can use both unicode and spaces in the filename
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09:31:22rasherIt does, I think, require us to use GNU extensions to find and xargs (-print0 and -0 respectively). Or redo the thing in pure perl.
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09:36:37linuxstbrasher: Do all zip tools handle unicode correctly?
09:36:51 Part dirtdawg
09:37:52rasherlinuxstb: 'zip' on Linux does (I assume the same version is used across the board), and fat has been ucs2 for ages, so I'd be quite surprised if it didn't work on cygwin.
09:38:06rasherOr ucs4, I forget.
09:38:19rasherOr some other abbreviation :)
09:38:56linuxstbI'm just saying we should test the common zip tools - just to make sure.
09:39:28rasherAh, you mean for unpacking?
09:39:44linuxstbThe only slight nastiness is that not all the filenames will display correctly with all fonts, but I guess that's not a problem if the English name is there too.
09:40:02rasherI'm leaning back and forth between displaying the english name first or not
09:40:39rasherIt looks nicest in all fonts with the english name first, but on the other hand, a native speaker would like the native name first
09:41:03linuxstbBut doesn't Rockbox lack proper unicode sorting?
09:41:10rasherI do think we really should display both, though.
09:41:18rasherPossibly - I've no idea to be honest.
09:41:39rasherThat's another reason in favour of putting the English name first, I guess
09:41:45linuxstbYes, that's what I mean.
09:42:09LloreanI think I'm in favour of English Name First too, since you can depend on that to always be readable.
09:42:30linuxstbI've no idea what the order of "Russian", "Hebrew" and "Chinese" should be in their native languages/characters...
09:42:45 Quit mrkiko (Remote closed the connection)
09:42:58rasherYeah, we might even end up in nationalist discussions!
09:43:24linuxstbSo putting the English first nicely avoids the issue, plus will look better if the font doesn't support the characters.
09:43:43rasherYup. I'm in favour of that too, now.
09:44:23rasherHow about using -print0 and -0 to find and xargs? Will that break horribly on BSDs and OS X?
09:44:40rasheror can we ask for the gnu tools there?
09:44:57rasherOr do the BSD tools also implement -print0 and -0..
09:50:31ZagorI have some osx people here, I'll ask
09:52:15linuxstbThe xargs and find manpages don't seem to mention that -print0 is a GNU extension.
09:52:29linuxstbSo it seems to be POSIX.
09:53:33markunrasher: where did you read that zip supports unicode?
09:53:50rashermarkun: I didn't - I tested it
09:54:04rashermake install for the sim worked, and produced the correct file
09:54:12rasher(that goes through make zip and unzipping)
09:54:37ZagorOSX supports -0 and -print0
09:54:37markundid you make the files on a UTF-16 system and extract them on a UTF-8 system for example?
09:54:57markunI believe I also did some tests in the past and it didn't work
09:55:12rasherAh. Hm.
09:55:22rasherEveryone should be utf-8 anyway :|
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09:55:40GodEater_hear hear
09:55:41markun7zip and rar support unicode afaik
09:55:56markunbut I didn't find anything on zip
09:56:24rasherAh yeah, that breaks nicely.
09:56:33dirtdawgMouser_X: I wrote earlier about a frozen Nano. I updated and everything works superbly now. Just wanted to say 'thanks' again. Cheers!
09:56:56linuxstbA google for "zip filename encoding" gives lots of problems...
09:57:14rasherProbably a case of "zip is old and broken"
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09:57:51rasherOpening the zip with the Windows builtin zip unpacker broke spectacularly
09:58:12linuxstbYes, I think that zip as a format doesn't have a character encoding specified in the file, or any mandated encoding...
09:58:20rasherOpening with 7-zip (still just a regular zip), breaks in a different way.
09:58:45rasherI guess that plan's out of the window then, unless we move to a different archive format
09:58:48linuxstbWe could switch to 7z, but maybe that's excessive for such a small feature...
09:59:31GodEater_there's other benefits to 7z too though
09:59:33Llorean7z is also a bit smaller. And honestly does the archive format matter too much if we have most users using rbutil?
09:59:46Nico_Pj0tt: hi
09:59:50linuxstbDoes/can rbutil support 7z?
09:59:59GodEater_I don't see why not
10:00:00rasherrbutil needs to support 7z then. I believe they got zip support for free
10:00:04GodEater_it's an open format
10:00:50rasherWe could provide the archives as self extracting exes for windows users
10:01:37rasherDon't know how good an idea it is
10:02:17GodEater_the 7zip site provides an sdk
10:02:22GodEater_no lib though =/
10:02:46LloreanI like the idea of moving to an archive format that's a little less likely to break sooner, even if the benefit is minimal. It might prove useful in the future, and no harm if it doesn't, right? (Assuming someone's willing to put in the work for it)
10:04:07GodEater_I like that idea too
10:04:26rasherWell there's the problem of zip being pretty much universally supported, whereas 7z is "some weird file I can't open". Don't know how widespread rbutil usage is yet?
10:04:55GodEater_we can provide a link to the 7zip site too
10:05:01GodEater_that's not a huge problem to overcome..
10:05:04LloreanYeah, but there are .7z tools for most OSes
10:05:27LloreanAnd the benefit of that is that they aren't likely to use some psychotic extractor that creates its own folders, or dumps everything in the root, or other weirdness
10:05:52rasherI'm not saying it's necessarily a huge problem, just something to think about, I guess.
10:06:32GodEater_tbh, that's another good reason to move
10:06:47GodEater_the fact that we can predict more accurately what people will use to do the extract
10:07:08GodEater_we'll end up with less of those forum posts that have resulted from some hair brained archive program extracting to wherever it felt like
10:07:18LloreanGodEater_: That also means that for windows/mac/linux we can make much more specific "Manual install" instructions by linking to an extraction tool, and giving instructions for using it.
10:07:21rasherIt *will* result in a wave of confused users though. Whether or not it's worth it is the question. I'm leaning towards yes.
10:07:27*jhMikeS doesn't understand how renaming functions that were named for what they literally do to something else that's literally what they don't do helps clarity (re: lv24020lp.c)
10:07:44LloreanjhMikeS: Maybe he's confused?
10:07:58Lloreanrasher: As the man who's likely to encounter those users head on, I think I'm still in favour of it. :)
10:08:14GodEater_as a man who will also likely run into them
10:08:38jhMikeSLlorean: if he's confused, he shouldn't change it? :)
10:08:47rasherIs the windows 7zip archiver accessible?
10:09:00GodEater_rasher: do you mean easy to use ?
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10:09:05GodEater_if so, then yes I think so
10:09:11rasherNo I mean easy to use for the blind
10:09:15ZagorI would probably have called them set_bits() and clear_bits() instead of write*
10:09:17GodEater_no idea
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10:09:25jhMikeSlv24020_write_clear doesn't clear the bits that are set, it clears the bits that aren't set :)
10:09:33Lloreanrasher: Something we need to check, at least.
10:09:46jhMikeS*_and is what it does
10:10:06rasherLlorean: I would guess it is - it seems to be completely native windows code.
10:10:14ZagorjhMikeS: no he added a ~ to it
10:10:18rasherThough you can never really tell.
10:11:08Lloreanrasher: It seems likely at least. It'd be nice if RButil could be made accessible (and reliable) enough that non-devs would never have a good reason to manual install
10:11:27LloreanAs it is, I think the reliability is just on player detection for first installs at this point.
10:11:32jhMikeSbeh, I guess so. Then it litterally does that. *waking up and really cranky here*
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10:16:09*GodEater_ passes neat caffeine to jhMikeS
10:17:30*jhMikeS probably needs the entire supply
10:23:53*GodEater_ passes a syringe too
10:29:35GodEater_hmm - if we want .7z support in rbutil it looks like we'll need to distrubute the SDK inside the rockbox svn - otherwise we can't guarantee the location of the header files on a building system. What do you guys think ?
10:30:31rasherHrm, I'm not sure it's needed. Seems to work fine with SDL
10:30:48rasherDifferent situation..
10:31:07rasherWell, we already distribute a ton of libraries
10:31:44GodEater_yes - which we've tweaked for rockbox targets, which makes sense
10:31:52GodEater_but not for host systems as far as I'm aware
10:33:03rasherYeah, but I don't see a real problem in doing it. The alternative is to tell the user to download it himself, which doesn't really accomplish anything but distribute the workload and multiplying it by a million
10:33:30GodEater_it also means we'll have to manually incorporate any upstream changes that the .7z team make
10:34:23rasherWe'd (and I use the word "we" very loosely here) have to deal with changes anyway, if the user updates from the website etc.
10:37:04homieloweAny ideas to compile odcctools under a x86-64 env(ubuntu 7.10)?, trying compile the iphone toochain ( rockbox as app)
10:37:31GodEater_it's giving you problems ?
10:38:03rasherhomielowe: while your goal is rockbox-related, I think you're more likely to get help in iphone related channels
10:38:54homielowe Well I guess your right, I kinda thought just that rockbox is pretty linux related.
10:39:09homielowelol woops
10:39:09GodEater_why would you think that ?
10:39:35homieloweCompiling, people of experience etc,
10:40:09GodEater_neither of those things are particularly confined to linux...
10:40:34Zagorwe're linux savvy, but I don't think anyone here has any experience with the iphone nor its' toolchain
10:40:51GodEater_*some* of us are linux savvy :)
10:41:11ZagorI've played with the iphone for 5mins, that's all.
10:41:16*homielowe is the utter opposite of that
10:41:28LinusNi saw a picture of one oce
10:42:49homieloweWell I have to go sleep, will try to rectify my problem tomorrow, thanks for the imput :)
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10:43:32ZagorLlorean: have you had your phonecall with real yet?
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10:44:18LloreanZagor: In 12 hours, or so
10:44:21GodEater_why are we trying to talk to real? I think I missed that...
10:44:30ZagorLlorean: oh.. time is difficult :)
10:44:42LloreanGodEater_: I emailed their licensing representative to ask if he had any ideas regarding Rockbox and the helix AAC codec.
10:44:48LloreanHe suggested a phonecall and offered to call me.
10:44:54GodEater_oh neat
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10:45:19LloreanHe also mentioned he was familiar with our project.
10:47:31LloreanThe email also caused me to realize that I'm not fond of shortening job titles no matter how long or awkward the full title might be.
10:47:56LloreanFor example, I think "Dir Bus Dev IP Lic" looks worse than what it most likely is written out in full.
10:48:06GodEater_ah yes
10:48:29LloreanBut I suppose that's just personal preference. It'd be a hassle to type even remotely frequently.
10:48:46LloreanThe burdens of responsibility, I suppose
10:49:09advcomp2019Llorean, if i reading that right, could that mean rockbox could play rax files?
10:51:54Lloreanadvcomp2019: Well we're discussing the Helix AAC codec, since signs point to it being a good deal better than our AAC codec.
10:52:01rasherI'm extremely sceptic about using the Helix AAC decoder on Rockbox unless we come up with some really generic codec that gets us out of GPL trouble, or they relicense the thing.
10:52:11rasherBut a phonecall never hurt anyone, of course.
10:53:20LloreanWell yeah, the whole tone of my email was "We're GPL licensed, and we compile in codecs, but your AAC codec looks really good, any ideas?"
10:53:41Zagorrasher: yeah, I don't have great hopes either. but talking is always good.
10:54:25rasherIf nothing else, it might just nudge them towards getting gpl compatible.
10:54:30LloreanSo if he thinks there's anything to discuss, it might well be that there's either something he can do, or he knows something we don't.
10:55:33LloreanAnd I mean the worst that can come of it is that we go right on not using their code because we can't. :)
11:05:28 Quit gromit` ("Coyote finally caught me")
11:13:05Bagder"Basically I?m totally blown away by your software"
11:13:10Bagderfine words from the forum
11:13:51LloreanAlways nice to see a post like that.
11:14:20Bagderit makes your carbon-fiber heart enable heat-mode
11:15:11safetydanSo do we want to support with Vorbis comment packets that span multiple pages?
11:15:28safetydanJust reading through the Vorbis comment spec they discourage large comments blocks.
11:16:35LloreanDiscourage as in "You should support them but shake your fingers at people who use them" or discourage as in "we won't shake our fingers at you if you choose not to support them"?
11:18:22safetydanLlorean, "It is meant for short text comments, not arbitrary metadata; "
11:18:35safetydanfrom the spec
11:20:17LloreanSo basically, if it spans a page, we tell them "You're using it wrong, sorry?"
11:20:21LloreanI have to admit I kinda like that idea. :)
11:20:59markunZagor, Bagder: how can I see which plugins are installed for twiki? Would be nice to have one which can help with organizing the wiki.
11:21:09safetydanthough the spec does go on to say that the comment packet size is effectively unbounded
11:21:31Zagormarkun: afaik you can't see that. I'll list it for you.
11:21:45markunthis could help for example:
11:23:40Zagormarkun: BeautifierPlugin, CommentPlugin, DirectedGraphPlugin, EditTablePlugin, InterwikiPlugin, PreferencesPlugin, RenderListPlugin, SlideShowPlugin, SmiliesPlugin, SpreadSheetPlugin, TablePlugin, WysiwygPlugin
11:23:55ZagorI don't know what half of them do, or even if they're enabled :-)
11:25:06markunDirectedGraphPlugin looks useful for some of the things we did
11:25:20markuncould you install TopicReferencePlugin for me?
11:25:35markunor do you know a better way to see how the wiki could be organized better?
11:25:59Zagorno, this seems like a good tool
11:28:28markuna friend of mine was explaining how user interfaces should be designed because of the way humans think. It was exactly what we moved away from with our "main menu" :)
11:29:18markunI didn't hear any complaints from new users that it was unintuitive, while we got this complaint a lot with the old structure
11:30:55markunBagder: very nice forum post indeed
11:31:00Zagorthe problem with that philosophy is the different people think in surprisingly different ways
11:31:16dirtdawgAfter updating Rockbox after a year, I have to say, it is great! It recognizes my 400 mAh battery (1300 was lowest before), annoyances in text editor is fixed, AND it has Robot Finds Kitten! Totally Sweet!
11:31:24Zagorso you easily end up with "focus group hell"
11:31:40safetydanyeah like some people think Tremor code is readable...
11:32:44LinusNi never saw the point with robots find kitten
11:32:47markundirtdawg: the mAh setting doesn't matter much anyway, but I'm glad you like the changes
11:33:05markunLinusN: I don't think there really is a point to it :)
11:34:35BagderI'm just confused there's no "box" or "rock" in its name!
11:34:55markunrockbox find kitten?
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11:34:56Bagderclearly a bug
11:34:57LinusNrobox find kitten
11:35:13*markun prefers LinusN's option
11:35:40Zagorrobot finds litterbox?
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11:36:09LinusNseriously, what is the point with it?
11:36:16markunkilling time I guess
11:36:24markunlike Jewels
11:36:30safetydanyeah like some people think Tremor code is readable...
11:36:38safetydanlousy up arrow
11:36:43LinusNis it to find the kitten ass early as possible?
11:38:24dirtdawgmarkun: I read that about the mAh before when I was trying to figure out how to set it, but it makes me happy anyways :D
11:38:58*markun thinks it should just be removed for targets without a good runtime prediction
11:39:04dirtdawgThere is no point to Robot Finds Kitten. That is why it is so rad.
11:39:29dirtdawgnow if they would just find a way to get Nethack on there ;)
11:40:28markundirtdawg: you could do it
11:40:51preglowsafetydan: looking at tremor? :>'
11:41:14dirtdawgmarkun: I appreciate what you're saying, but I can barely handle bascic Python programming. Maybe I'll give it a shot in a decade or two.
11:41:39safetydanpreglow, looking at its comment parsing yes. Apparently whitespace is an alien concept to the author.
11:41:47markundirtdawg: just start slowly. It will be fun :)
11:42:30dirtdawgFun is relative. After all, I think Robot Finds Kitten is fun :D
11:42:39preglowsafetydan: yeah, all of monty's code looks like that, i hate it
11:42:43preglowit's nearly unreadable
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11:44:54dirtdawgGoodnight. Thanks again to all who help develop Rockbox. I love it!
11:44:57safetydanpreglow, seen the praise for your "work of art" eq?
11:45:02preglowhaha, just did :P
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11:45:17safetydanwe need a testimonials page
11:45:30preglowshould we put the bad ones there to? :D
11:47:40safetydanIsn't that what the golden quotes page is for?
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11:49:08preglowhaha, so we put praise in "testimonials" and flak in "goldenquotes"? i like it :P
11:49:37LloreanWe could just have a WhatUsersThink wiki page, and let anyone edit it, and see where it goes.
11:49:57LloreanMight be a fun read after a few months
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11:50:41safetydanis filesize() a particularly expensive operation? I'm just curious why each metadata parser is required to populate the filesize attribute of the id3 struct.
11:50:51safetydanthat could be done once in the comment metadata function
11:55:40preglowLlorean: probably contain about 500 bargain viagra offers and ten user feedback entries
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11:56:32ZagorI'm surprised monty uses so much newlines yet not a single space if he can avoid it
11:56:50linuxstbsafetydan: If the metadata parsers are responsible for setting filesize, then that gives them the ability to strip tags. But I don't know if that's being used.
11:57:13Zagorboo, he wastes a space in pointer declarations :)
11:57:23preglowan outrage"
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13:23:03 Join flami [0] (
13:24:14flamiHi, I updated rockbox on my nano yesterday , works fine under Linux , now I wanted to play a game in weenydoze and it complains that it doesnt have a driver for the "rockbox media player" ... what can be done about that ?
13:27:28GodEater_ignore it
13:27:40markunamiconn: ping
13:27:46GodEater_the usb stack isn't finished. There is no driver to install.
13:29:21flamiwell it wont show me the player
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13:31:30mrkikohi all!
13:32:18GodEater_flami: Correct, because the stack is not finished yet. If you wish to see your player as a drive under windows, put it into disk mode, or the original firmware.
13:32:44flamigod i hate windows so much
13:32:59flamithanks for the help ^^
13:33:53GodEater_why use it then ?
13:34:18markunhi mrkiko
13:34:34jhMikeSGodEater_: just to be able to say that? ;)
13:34:48markunor maybe it's not his computer?
13:34:48mrkikoHi markun...
13:35:59mrkikowindows is a bad thing aniway...
13:36:12*petur does not understand linux fanboys
13:36:17markunI'm changing the balance setting to use dB, does anyone here know anything about the MAS'?
13:36:42markunpetur: indeed, FreeBSD rocks ;P
13:36:44hcspetur: do not try and understand the fanboy, that is impossible
13:37:06mrkikopetur: freebsd... fantastic!!!!
13:37:09jhMikeSbeh, I don't really care about the OS on my machine so long as I get done what I want.
13:37:46mrkikojhMikeS: to get done what I want, I need to care about the OS on my machine. :)
13:37:47 Join midgey [0] (
13:38:31*petur gets his things done on win and linux and gets annoyed by both of them from time to time
13:38:43jhMikeSmrkiko: If those rules ever apply to me for something, I'll care then :)
13:39:16GodEater_isn't a fanboy someone who continually praises his choice of <insert product here> and refuses to listen to anyone criticising it ?
13:40:18 Quit flami ("Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee")
13:40:36pixelmamarkun: what advantage would dB for balance have?
13:40:42mrkikoso I don't retain to be a fanboy
13:40:43*jhMikeS is just happy he beat everyone to the wikipedia link this time :p
13:40:44markunpixelma: it sounds better
13:40:53 Quit midgey (Client Quit)
13:41:30markunpixelma: hm, I think you are right, there is no advantage :)
13:41:40markunas the percentage is in dB anyway
13:41:40pixelmawouldn't it need to be dynamic dependung on your volume setting then?
13:41:49pixelma*depending too
13:41:52jhMikeSdB for balance = linear balance control?
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13:44:21jhMikeSpixelma: not really, it should be a value with 0/0 being centered or 74L = -74R = full left for instance. However what level something is, you can always reduce the dB by some negative amount.
13:45:14markunjhMikeS: do you think having dB instead of percentage makes sense?
13:45:33markunwould be the same reason we switched the volume control from percentage to dB
13:46:07jhMikeSyeah, then perceived shift would be linear to the value
13:46:28jhMikeSsomehow you have to include -inf in there though
13:46:53markunI'm just a bit puzzled by the balance values for the Micronas 3507D
13:47:48markunfor all other audio hw I have the balance from MIN_VOLUME to -MIN_VOLUME
13:48:18amiconnmarkun: Put simply, dB for balance would be more complex to handle
13:48:21jhMikeSisn't there an audio volume table
13:48:26amiconn*way* more complex
13:48:27markunamiconn: why complex?
13:48:42amiconnOn some targets, at least
13:48:46markunit looks simpler to me
13:48:58markunI'll show you the patch I have, then you can comment on it
13:49:10jhMikeSdo any targets have balance register or just L/R volume ones?
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13:50:09markunamiconn: can you check the mas related stuff I changed?
13:50:38markunI really don't see how it gets more complicated. What am I missing?
13:50:40jhMikeSmarkun: what about expressing the muted channel?
13:51:12*jhMikeS guesses a formatter could do that
13:51:34*mrkiko sleeps
13:51:37markunjhMikeS: we don't do that for volume either
13:52:29amiconnMAS35xxF has a separate balance register, which is linear
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13:53:27jhMikeSmarkun: I know, but I'm just wanting to kick it off on the right foot
13:53:40markunamiconn: then I'll just keep that in %
13:53:44markunthe rest was in dB anyway
13:54:00amiconnWhy do you want balance in dB btw?
13:54:02LinusNwhat would be the benefit?
13:54:52markunisn't it the same reason we have the volume in dB? Becaus that is the actual unit we use?
13:55:40LinusNmarkun: yes, but what is the natural unit for balance?
13:55:54markunLinusN: I would say it's dB
13:56:04amiconnUmm, balance is actually in dB on MAS35xxF ...
13:56:47markunsome questions about the 3507D
13:56:51amiconnIt goes from -128dB to +127dB
13:58:04amiconnThe 3507D doesn't handle volume/balance. It's the accompanying DAC3550 that handles it
13:58:20amiconnPlain left/right volume like most other DACs
13:58:45markunin sound.c: int current_balance = 0; /* -960..+960
13:59:00markunthat is the supposed range for MAS3507D
13:59:21markunbut it says: int current_volume = 0; /* -780..+180
13:59:45amiconnyes, and +18 - (-78) == 96
13:59:48markunso sounds like balance should just be -780..+780 right?
13:59:52markunah, ok
14:00:31markunso, still against my change?
14:00:53LinusNi'm not against it, in fact i don't really care
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14:01:27LinusNi asked around when i first implemented this, and at that time we felt that percent is as good as any unit
14:03:08markunamiconn: for MAS3587F we have the min volume as -100, is that correct?
14:04:32markunthe datasheet says -114
14:04:57amiconnThat's in order to keep the volume display in the status bar as 2 digits
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14:05:16amiconn(-100 == mute will be replaced by the mute symbol)
14:05:33 Join gromit` [0] (
14:05:37LinusNa really funny limitation
14:05:48amiconnBalance should use the full range of course, and that range is independent of volume, unlike on all other dacs
14:06:02markunamiconn: yes, I've fixed that now
14:06:51*LinusN recalls the utterly amusing percent/dB debate a long time ago
14:07:54markunamiconn: can you check my new patch?
14:08:10markunis the code for MAS3587F wrong?
14:08:55markunprobably shouldn't use tenth-of-db, right?
14:13:34markunok, new patch uploaded
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14:31:34*XavierGr_ just received a package from the USA, I wonder what's in there.... :)
14:31:49markuntell us!
14:33:15XavierGr_surprise surprise it is a Gigeabeat S
14:33:56XavierGr_it has some major cracks in its back though... now let's see if this thing turns on
14:35:51preglowmarkun: doesn't balance already use db?
14:36:07preglowmarkun: and anyway, i think balance should be in %, you almost never see db balance controls
14:36:17preglowthey might BE db internally, but they always present a percent scale
14:36:25markunwhy not make the volume in percent again?
14:36:37XavierGr_it's alive! :D
14:37:30preglowmarkun: well, because volume in db is an ordinary convention, if you ask me
14:37:38markunpreglow: I just think it makes more sense to make the left channel x dB quieter than just a percentage over the whole range (in dB)
14:37:49preglowmarkun: i'm really not too interested in what exact db my balance is set to, but i am interested in what db my volume is
14:38:05markunwhat do you use balance for?
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14:38:31preglowmarkun: i never use it, but if i did, it would be to balance out something that seemed panned
14:39:10markunand not pan it by several dB but rather in percentage?
14:39:35preglowi don't care about the scale at all
14:39:36markunof the whole range in dB
14:39:37preglowi listen for the change i want
14:40:05preglowthe only thing that would be good to fix with balance, is make the scale perceived linear, it's not right now
14:40:11preglowthe upper part of the scale is much more usefull than the lower
14:40:15markunmaybe useful for people with unbalanced hearing and several different rockbox targets :)
14:40:50markunyes, I agree with the last part
14:41:06markunthat was what got me looking at the balance in the first place
14:41:09preglowbut balance _is_ in decibels internally, right?
14:41:33markunfor most targets it's just the difference between left and right in dB
14:41:35preglow100% = -max db pan
14:41:50markunany idea how to make it sound more linear?
14:42:09preglowbalance is one thing i've never really cared much about, apart from just tuning something to sound right
14:43:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:43:19XavierGr_markun: is the phone out the video out on Gigabeat S too?
14:43:30markunlast time I asked i got a lot less complaints... but that was before I wrote the patch of course :)
14:43:39markunXavierGr_: no idea
14:44:06markunI believe that toffe told me it works with the Gigabeat F remote, so I don't think they also put video in there
14:44:21XavierGr_markun: but you have an S right? (in case I am asking the wrong person)
14:44:28markunno, only F40
14:44:41XavierGr_ah okay then, I thought you had one too
14:44:59*markun will soon be the only one in here without a Gigabeat S
14:45:07markuntogether with amiconn of course :)
14:45:15XavierGr_hehe indeed
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14:45:26pixelmaI'm not interested in one too ;)
14:45:27markunXavierGr_: linuxstb has one
14:45:53markunpixelma: strong feelings about my balance patch?
14:47:39pixelmamy first thought was the same as preglow's but don't care much because I would decide based on what my ears tell me
14:48:34pixelmajust not sure what the average user would think
14:48:36XavierGr_linuxstb: yes I got that cable from the package, I just can't find another hole to put it in, save the headphone one
14:48:57linuxstbI would assume it's the headphone socket then.
14:49:37XavierGr_stupid MTP only firmware
14:49:43XavierGr_can't load music on it :(
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14:50:36linuxstbWhy not?
14:51:27XavierGrbecause I need WMP 10...
14:51:38XavierGrI will install it just to try once
14:52:24XavierGrbah copying files with MTP takes forever, way slower than UMS
14:52:45XavierGrI will have to (try) start hacking tonight then
14:52:58XavierGrcan't take advantage of this beauty without Rockbox
14:53:37linuxstbI thought MTP was built into Windows - meaning you could basically drag and drop with explorer?
14:53:58XavierGrwell it did recognize it after I installed WMA 10
14:54:38linuxstbAh, OK. But yes, the S is in desperate need of Rockbox...
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14:55:55pixelmahmm... just realise that there is a small inconvenience if one wants to use .talk clips on a hwcodec and a swcodec target. If I'd like to collect all the music on a PC and only copy some directories over to one of the targets from time to time, I would need a speex .talk-clip and an mp3 .talk-clip...
14:56:25pixelmaor do I miss something there?
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15:28:29linuxstbpixelma: Would it have helped if mp3 and speex talk clips had different filenames? e.g. .talk (mp3) and .speak (speex)?
15:31:48pixelmawould solve my problem (I wasn't sure if I described it good enough) - this way I could keep both on my PC and don't have to care when copying it over to one or the other device (which I do more often than other people with larger disk based players)
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15:32:44linuxstbThat would probably be too much of an inconvenience to do now though...
15:34:37pixelmayes, probably
15:39:05 Join DeeKay [0] (
15:41:41 Join J-23 [0] (
15:42:52DeeKayHey guys! 8) I really want rockbox (SID support! \o/) and I just backed up my iPod nano 1st gen 2GB, reformatted it Windows and installed Rockbox using the QT installer. Seemed to work fine, but the iPod keeps telling me "Can't load rockbox.ipod - file not found". but the file IS in /.rockbox/rockbox.ipod! He;lp? <:-)
15:44:42DeeKayAnd one more thing: The changing to a windows iPod on the Mac using the partition tables as described here does not work. dd tells me it cannot do this
15:45:18GodEater_which step with dd ?
15:45:22DeeKayI did try uninstalling everything and re-installing it, to no avail... same problem!
15:45:33GodEater_silly question - you mean part C ?
15:45:57DeeKaydd if=mbr-nano2GB.bin of=/dev/disk2
15:46:07GodEater_what's the exact error message it gives you ?
15:46:31DeeKayurm... damn, i closed the window already! <:-)
15:46:45DeeKayI think it was "cannot open device", but i may be wrong
15:46:59DeeKaycan i try again now that i converted it to windows already?
15:47:02GodEater_so how did you end up doing the conversion then ?
15:47:06DeeKayis it somewhere in console.log?
15:47:11DeeKayon a windows machine
15:47:28GodEater_you certainly can try it again yes
15:47:42DeeKayok, trying
15:47:49GodEater_I suspect it may be because you either specified the device name in correctly, or didn't run it as a user with sufficient permissions
15:47:58GodEater_s/in correctly/incorrectly
15:49:09DeeKayshould i eject the whole disk or just umount the partition from diskutil?
15:49:28GodEater_ejecting is a bad plan
15:49:28DeeKayi did run it as sudo, otherwise dd refuses to work at all! 8)
15:49:38GodEater_unmounting is unnecessary
15:49:53GodEater_although probably a good idea :)
15:50:49DeeKaywell, it DOES say so in the tutorial
15:51:17DeeKaya) Find your iPod and unmount it
15:51:20GodEater_yeah, unmount it then
15:51:28GodEater_definitely don't eject it though
15:51:31DeeKaymaybe that's what i did wrong?
15:51:51GodEater_could be
15:52:45DeeKayyeah, that was it
15:52:58DeeKaydd: /dev/disk2: Operation not supported
15:53:06DeeKay(i did eject it, like before!)
15:53:24GodEater_yeah - that would be the problem - the device file is no longer actually attached to the device at that point
15:53:26DeeKayso it prolly works if i just unmount the partition
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15:53:42DeeKayI'm not gonna do that, because then I'll have to start anew! ;-D
15:54:13DeeKayyou should put that in the Wiki! "Do NOT eject it!"
15:54:28GodEater_or you could
15:54:35DeeKaydo I have to register?
15:55:14GodEater_doesn't take long
15:55:27GodEater_tell me what your wikiname is when you're done, and I'll give you write permissions
15:57:28DeeKay−−+ Access Denied
15:57:28DeeKayAccess check on Main.IpodConversionToFAT32 failed. Action "change": access not allowed on web.
15:57:55GodEater_That's your actual real name ?
15:58:34GodEater_wow - where are you from ?
15:58:54peturwhich part is your first name?
15:58:55DeeKayOh, you mean my private name? No, it's just my Initials
15:59:05GodEater_Ah - in that case that's not allowed
15:59:10GodEater_we insist on real names in the wiki
15:59:24DeeKayWell, and I insist on my privacy? <:-)
15:59:36GodEater_in that case you don't get write permission :(
15:59:58DeeKayWho can see the real name?
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16:00:49DeeKayhm, that's a bad idea...
16:01:22*petur looks at Mr. God Eater ;)
16:01:32DeeKayBecause everywhere you leave your real name, you show up in some search engines and datamining fuckheads use it to profile you
16:02:01DeeKayYeah, Mr God Eater, preaching water, drinking wine? ;-)
16:02:18peturand they send me very targetted spam - not...
16:03:08GodEater_I don't get any spam based on my real name
16:04:08DaCapnI'm not sure why the real name would be required either
16:04:18 Join japc [0] (n=japc@
16:04:18DaCapn*should be
16:04:40peturproject policy
16:04:49peturall contributers great and small
16:05:26DaCapnright, well I'm saying that I know it's a policy but I don't know why that should be a policy
16:05:36GodEater_it says it very clearly on the wiki registration page. If you disagree with it - don't register.
16:05:49peturlast discussed at devcon2007 and kept - seel devcon2007 wiki page
16:05:57DaCapnthat would be the exact reaction I had
16:06:11 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
16:06:53GodEater_broadly it means we can track contributions by people's legal names.
16:07:26peturbah, the page doesn't actually mention the policy - sorry
16:07:47DeeKayWell, here's a compromise: Make real names only visible to registered members. How bout that? 8)
16:07:49DaCapnit just seems like it does more harm than good for the wiki since people enjoy their privacy, policy probably causes the loss of some good posters
16:07:57 Join scorche|w [0] (n=42c007b2@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
16:08:17peturso be it. goodbye.
16:08:41peturseveral nice patches have been refused that way.
16:09:38GodEater_the rules / policies aren't really up for discussion. As it repeatedly stated, Rockbox isn't a democracy :)
16:09:42DeeKayI guess people will have alot less problems giving their real names if they know they can't be datamined by spiders...
16:10:07DeeKayWhat is it then? 8) A dictatorship?
16:10:30DeeKaythat's the first opensource project I see that is not democratic! ;-)
16:10:50DaCapnwhat is tracking people's post by real name useful for?
16:10:59scorche|wDeeKay: ever heard of this thing called "linux"?
16:11:12DeeKaycontributing of copyrighted sourcecode I assume...
16:11:14GodEater_DaCapn: so we know who contributed something
16:11:16petur"real software written by real people"
16:11:40scorche|wand i think rockbox is more of an Oligarchy, but that is just me ;)
16:11:42DeeKaywell, iPodlinux didn't demand my real name! ;-)
16:11:58GodEater_iPodLinux are free to make their own policies.
16:12:01peturand a credits file full of nicknames doesn't look very professional
16:12:33GodEater_Zagor is our beloved dictator.
16:12:48GodEater_and he's not even here right now
16:13:15scorche|wGodEater_: oligarchy!
16:13:25DeeKaywhat about people that don't wanna contribute source but documentation etc?
16:13:38scorche|wsame thing
16:13:54GodEater_we're not interested in anonymous contributions. Period.
16:14:38DeeKayok, have it your way... So what about that "file not found" problem?
16:15:18*linuxstb thought "select your iPod and click 'Unmount'." was quite explicit...
16:15:52GodEater_I did too linuxstb
16:16:05DeeKayWell, here's the thing: you can select both the iPod and the partition on it... and it's not called "unmount" in every language! ;-)
16:16:07GodEater_I've added the "do not eject" anyway though
16:16:25DeeKayIn german there's "Deaktivieren" and "Auswerfen"
16:16:32linuxstbDeeKay: OK, fair point ;)
16:17:00DeeKayone more thing to add would be WHERE you can see the /diskX - select iPod and click "Info"
16:17:23*GodEater_ will leave it someone who actually owns a Max
16:17:28DeeKayright now it just says "find the disk name"
16:18:11linuxstbHow do we know what the user has called their ipod?
16:18:49DeeKayNo, we're not looking for the actual name, we're looking for the /diskX
16:20:20linuxstbThe "manual instructions" are never going to be suitable for users who don't know their way around the command-line. That's why we suggest finding a Windows machine to do the conversion. I'm also working on adding conversion capabilities to ipodpatcher/rbutil, but that's not done yet.
16:21:07DeeKayJust add "(Select your iPod volume and click the "Info"-Button. It's the /diskX under "Media-Identification") after "...has assigned to your iPod"
16:21:10GodEater_and will only work for a subset of ipods anyway unless you get your 1st dan in FAT.
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16:21:42GodEater_or if Zagor takes pity on you ;)
16:21:56DeeKaywell, there's alot of people like me with limited commandline knowledge! ;-)
16:21:57linuxstbGodEater_: I'm hoping once it works with 512-byte sectors, someone will jump in and fix for 2048 - I'm guessing it's relatively trivial if you know FAT.
16:22:17GodEater_let's hope so
16:22:28DeeKayI know my way around some stuff like Imagemagick, AWK, sed etc, but dd is complete and utter mystery to me! ;-)
16:22:41 Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:22:45GodEater_dd is child's play compared to sed/awk
16:22:55*linuxstb makes a good living with AWK...
16:23:28DeeKayyeah, awk rocks! 8)
16:24:34DeeKayanyhow, any ideas why rockbox.ipod cannot be found when it's there?
16:24:57linuxstbWhat ipod do you have?
16:25:04GodEater_Nano 2GB
16:25:07DeeKay1st gen nano 2GB
16:25:27*GodEater_ wonders if the windows machine has put the wrong sort of FAT on the device.
16:25:28linuxstbWhere is the rockbox.ipod file on your Nano? (the full path)
16:25:46GodEater_linuxstb: he used RBUtil to to the install
16:25:46DeeKay /.rockbox/
16:25:50GodEater_so it's in the right place
16:26:44DeeKayoriginal OS works fine
16:26:48linuxstbGodEater_: I would have thought Rockbox would have given a "no partition" error if the partition wasn't formatted as FAT32
16:26:50DeeKaybootloader itself seems to work fine, too
16:27:05DeeKaythat little hardwaretest utility you included seems to work, too
16:27:12GodEater_I thought "no partition" was based on the partition type in the mbr
16:27:19GodEater_not the actual content of the partition
16:27:27GodEater_but I bow to your greater experience
16:27:27linuxstbNo, I don't think Rockbox pays any attention to the partition type
16:27:35linuxstb(ipodpatcher/rbutil does though)
16:27:43DeeKaywell, it is formatted in FAT32 now, so that shouldn't be a problem
16:27:45GodEater_in that case I'm stumped
16:28:52DeeKayi did try a chmod +x for rockbox.ipod to no avail (changed it back meanwhile)
16:29:04GodEater_no such attribute on a fat partition
16:29:11GodEater_so it makes no difference
16:29:19amiconnGodEater: Rockbox doesn't care about partition type (as long as it's != 5)
16:29:22linuxstbMaybe you have a stray mount point in /Volumes - if you unplug your Nano, do you still see it in /Volumes/ ?
16:29:23GodEater_the bootloader wouldn't care
16:29:39GodEater_amiconn: thanks for enlightening me :)
16:29:45GodEater_I did believe linuxstb already though
16:30:01DeeKayFuck me - You're right! It's still there!
16:30:14DeeKayCan't see it in the finder, but it's still in /Volumes
16:30:58DeeKayhow did that happen? and what do I do now? 8)
16:31:27GodEater_take the windows solution. Reboot!
16:31:58linuxstbOr try "diskutil unmount /Volumes/xxxxx"
16:32:23linuxstbDeeKay: I guess you unplugged without unmounting/ejecting.
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16:32:49linuxstbBeing able to use chmod on a FAT device was the clue...
16:33:41DeeKaywell, i did pull it out a little too early once after pushing the eject button.. but that was after it didn't work
16:33:50GodEater_is that something Mac specific then ?
16:34:20GodEater_cos I can chmod stuff on a FAT device from linux. It just doesn't do much other than affect the colours "ls" outputs in :)
16:34:39linuxstbGodEater_: That doesn't make sense - it must be caching it...
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16:35:13DeeKaySo where do i go from here? reboot the machine to get rid of that stray mountpoint and then what?
16:35:45linuxstbThen just run Rockbox Utility again to install Rockbox
16:35:56DeeKayuninstall first I assume?
16:36:03linuxstbNo, nothing is installed...
16:36:24linuxstbBut you could delete that stray mount point - as it contains a copy of .rockbox
16:36:35DeeKaytried that, won't work
16:36:40linuxstbAs root?
16:36:54DeeKayVolume failed to unmount
16:37:02linuxstbNo, I mean "rm" it
16:37:09DeeKaywell, with sudo! ;-)
16:37:27DeeKayrm -R /<iPod> ?
16:38:03DeeKaynow it's gone
16:39:15 Quit animeloe (Client Quit)
16:39:16DeeKayjust plugged in the iPod... You were right, /.rockbox is completely empty! ;-D
16:39:34DeeKaybut where did that fake mountpoint come from anyway?
16:40:01DeeKayI think rbutil must've created it, cause it was definately copying somewhere all the time
16:40:35DeeKaythat unplugging-without-unmounting was definately AFTER the installation with rbutil
16:40:50 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
16:41:09DeeKaya hint is prolly that it cannot autodetect the iPpd
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16:43:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:44:30DeeKayis it normal that installing it takes a long time?
16:45:01DeeKayrbutil is unresponsive for atleast 3 minutes now while installing RB (only that, no bootloader etc)
16:45:39 Join toffe82 [0] (
16:45:47GodEater_it shouldn't take that long
16:45:59GodEater_it downloads the zip file and then expands it onto your ipod
16:46:16DeeKayyeah, that's what I assumed...
16:46:27GodEater_you could just do it manually of course...
16:46:36DeeKaycan't even click "cancel", it's completely "rainbow-cursored"
16:49:36GodEater_I'm not sure how well tested rbutil is on OSX - we don't have many people on that platform
16:50:59DeeKayI'm just copying over everything in /.rockbox/ manually
16:53:00DeeKaywell, copying over manually takes forever, too, so I quit too early on rbutil! ;-)
16:53:13DeeKaylots of really small files + USB2.0 on a Mac = teh suck
16:59:49 Quit CaptainSquid ("Miranda IM!")
17:00:23GodEater_do you have the Nano in emergency disk mode? Or the old firmware ?
17:14:19Nico_Pj0tt: ping
17:14:28 Join mycael [0] (
17:17:38 Join J3TC- [0] (
17:19:28mycaelid rock box fully working with 5.5G ipods?
17:20:35 Quit animeloe ("Leaving")
17:22:12 Quit linuxstb ("Client Exiting")
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17:27:19mycaeli get a HTML 404 error when the installer tries to downlaod the new file.
17:27:35mycaelusing 1.0.1 of the installer
17:29:10DeeKayokay, it works like a charm! ;-D Thanks so much for your help (and Rockbox!) Off to daddle around in Rockbox...
17:29:18 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
17:29:49DeeKayinstallation takes like forever, but that's always when copying small files via USB, especially onto FAT32-volumes
17:30:17DeeKayMac-USB2.0 speeds are lackluster, as is FAT32 speeds...
17:30:21DeeKayok, off
17:30:28 Quit DeeKay ("Proud 5.25"-Diskhead...")
17:31:16mycaelAnyone help. I get a 404 error when the installer tries to download
17:33:55preglowjust heard back from the faad guy, and he said the low power sbr mode isn't well maintained
17:38:03 Nick parafin|away is now known as parafin (
17:38:38Nico_PBagder: I'm getting "an error was found by the version control system. Please notify your TWiki administrator." when attempting to save changes to a wiki page
17:39:18 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
17:42:08preglowLlorean: when were you going to talk with the real guy again?
17:44:48 Join jgarvey [0] (
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17:51:14 Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo)
17:56:32Nico_Ppreglow: he said today between 1.30 and 2 PM PST
17:56:50Nico_Ppreglow: this evening if you're near UTC
17:57:06mycaelAnyone help. I get a 404 error when the installer tries to download
17:57:52 Join Crash91 [0] (n=evil91@
17:59:14GodEater_mycael: which target ?
17:59:25 Quit desowin ("use linux")
17:59:42 Join desowin [0] (
17:59:57mycaeltchan: sorry don't know much about RB. taget of the file? It just says rockbox.xom
18:00:32GodEater_mycael: I meant which digital audio player do you have ?
18:00:44mycaelGodEater_: oh kk, iPod 5.5 80GB
18:01:12pixelmashould be
18:01:16GodEater_works for me
18:01:23GodEater_try again mycael
18:01:26mycaelGodEater_: ok
18:03:37mycaelGodEater_: picture
18:05:55GodEater_I just downloaded it and it came down fine
18:06:42 Part Daolan
18:06:44mycaeli'm using a older installer 1.0.1
18:06:54mycaelcould that be it?
18:07:13GodEater_could be
18:07:24*GodEater_ has no clue what the latest version is
18:07:45Crash91mycael: what mac version/pc are you using (out of curiosity, not related to discussion)
18:08:11mycaelMacBook 10.5 2Ghz C2D 1gb ram 80GB HDD
18:08:39Crash91nice, i have same specs 'cept its dell and 120GB HD :D
18:09:14Crash91enojoying photoshop cs3? :P
18:09:40mycaelwho me?
18:09:50 Join GamaX|Gary [0] (
18:09:59GamaX|Garyhi, german support here?
18:10:29Nico_Pmycael: you should upgrade
18:10:33Crash91=) i love that peice of software
18:10:38mycaelNico_P: to
18:10:44GamaX|Garyich hab ein problem ^^
18:10:48Crash912GB RAM...gonna get that soon
18:10:48GamaX|Garyvll knnt ihr helfen
18:10:49mycaelNico_P: i onlt got the trail
18:11:01mycaelme to only £30
18:11:05Crash91hallo gary, ich spreche ein bichen deutsch
18:11:27Crash91ich werde helfen
18:11:31pixelmaGamaX|Gary: try speaking english here, maybe you'll get more help
18:11:36Crash91was ist dein problem?
18:11:37GamaX|Garyalso wenn ich rockbox starten will sagt der im ipod error can't load rockbox
18:11:47mycaelthat was a mix
18:12:16GodEater_English only channel here
18:12:18Crash91hast du der ".rockbox" folder zu deinem mp3 speiler copiery?
18:12:22GodEater_please stick to it
18:12:25Crash91ok sorry
18:12:35Crash91hehe, great way to practise my german tho :)
18:12:40GodEater_it's in the channel guidelines
18:12:46Crash91Gary: zu #crash bitte
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18:18:21 Quit petur ("gonne")
18:18:58mycaelthe mac version won't work because i have a macpod!
18:19:54mycaelhow am i meant ot use it then?
18:22:21mycaelNico_P: anyway?
18:22:57Nico_Pmycael: I think you need to convert your iPod to FAT32:
18:23:09mycaelbut will it still work with Mac?
18:24:18 Join imulator [0] (
18:24:42imulatorrockbox server right?
18:24:58imulatorim new in this tool xD
18:25:36Crash91imulator: youre from germany right? Could i request your assisstance with something?
18:26:20Crash91can you head over to #crash?
18:27:06 Join Simon_c [0] (i=scrute@nat/novell/x-7a685937d513aa68)
18:27:20mycaelNico_P: do i need to use mtools
18:27:26 Part Simon_c
18:27:55 Join mrkiko [0] (
18:28:24mrkikoHi all!
18:28:44mrkikoIs there a way to make the bootloader boot by default the OF without pressing REC o removing itself on the iRiver H340?
18:28:48 Quit barrywardell ()
18:32:01scorche|wif you edit the code and compile...but i would be a bit careful on new bootloaders for the non-PP irivers...
18:32:02mycael How do i boot form rockbox on ipod?
18:32:32scorche|wmycael: it should boot into rockbox automatically once you install it
18:32:34iambeni think you install it and then turn on the ipod
18:32:45Crash91mycael: hold select+menu?
18:32:51Crash91if you havent already
18:34:08mycaelsent ipod into recovery mode
18:34:10mrkikoscorche|w: ... what does this mean? I know how I may edit the code, but I don't thrust myself enough to take this risk...
18:35:30mycaelCrash91: i give up
18:35:54scorche|wmrkiko: then dont
18:37:06imulatorhow do i have to call the pictures in the folder to show them on the play display^^?
18:37:28Crash91anything you want, you just have to edit the WPS to contain those filenames
18:38:14imulatorill try
18:38:15 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (
18:38:39mrkikothe problem is that the manual is saying unright things..
18:38:50mrkikoThe bootloader must be fixed...
18:38:59Crash91unright, which i believe would be the same as wrong? :P
18:39:03mrkikoor the manual changes... but I personally like the first option.
18:39:05imulatorwhere is that WPS file?
18:39:18mrkikoCrash91: eright
18:39:46scorche|wmrkiko: where is the manual incorrect?
18:39:49mrkikoThe manual says that the rockbox bootloader , if rockbox firmware is not present, will boot the original firmware; this is not true, the boot loader will print a nice message and shutdown the player...
18:39:53mrkikobastard boot loader :)
18:40:08Crash91mrkiko: youre right
18:40:28mrkikoCrash91: ow much old are you (curiosity)
18:40:34imulatormhh i dont understand the wps file
18:40:36 Part hcs
18:41:02amiconnThe iriver bootloader needs a few more fixes. Probably most of these things are already fixed in svn, but releasing a new bootloader for irivers needs thorough testing, unlike other bootloaders
18:42:01mrkikoamiconn: ... the one I'm using is a yesterday svn oot loader
18:42:09imulatori have the wps of aero mac
18:42:11amiconnOn iriver?
18:42:20imulatorso where do i see the filename for the album picture?
18:42:38amiconnI would not dare to try an untested bootloader on my H340 or H180
18:42:53Crash91oh you mean album art?
18:43:04 Quit mycael ()
18:43:11scorche|wmrkiko: where did you get it from? "svn bootloader" do you mean you built it yourself?
18:43:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:43:12Crash91ah one sec
18:43:20imulatorill wait^^
18:43:26Crash91i thought you wanted to modify the WPS grpahics
18:43:35mrkikoamiconn: you're right... but this H340 is the one of my brother, who requested me to install rockbox
18:43:42mrkikoand it works...
18:43:47mrkikoat least for us
18:43:52amiconnYou were lucky then...
18:43:55Crash91mrkiko: you?
18:43:59imulatori have sansa e200 if it will help u^^
18:44:09Crash91yes, i have one too :D
18:44:29Crash91this should clear all your doubt up:,
18:44:37imulatori was suprised it i saw rockbox xD
18:44:39mrkikoamiconn: i would like to make a question to a serious developer as you are. If something goes wrong with the boot loader on your iRiver, what should you do?
18:44:45imulatorij thx crash
18:44:49imulatornot ij^^
18:44:49amiconnThe problem with the coldfire irivers is that a broken bootloader can render the device unusable, and for recovery you need to access it via bdm
18:44:57Crash91imulator: bitte
18:45:04mrkikoI ate boot loaders also, I like to let them in theyr place... without touching them when I can
18:45:15amiconnThe only developer who has a bdm wiggler is LinusN
18:45:20Crash91mrkiko: how old are you? (curiosity)
18:45:31Crash91nope, school
18:46:31imulatoranother question
18:46:39imulatorthere are games in rockbox
18:46:45amiconnAll other targets have built-in safety measures to recover from installing a broken bootloader
18:46:46Crash91helll yeah!
18:46:46imulatorare they java?
18:46:55mrkikoamiconn: so ... those models are examples of user-abusing design...
18:47:12imulatori thought i could so my mobilpjonegames on it^^
18:47:14Crash91nothing at all that is related to windows/linux/mac...rockbox is independent
18:47:28amiconnmrkiko: ?
18:47:52mrkikoamiconn: my english is ... too bad :)
18:48:04 Join dan_a [0] (n=dan_a@
18:48:09imulatori now crash^^
18:48:18mrkikoamiconn: this is an example, in my opinion at least, of a badly designed device..
18:48:27mrkikoat least from our point of view...
18:48:51amiconnHaving a method to recover from a broken installation is always a good idea. Dunno why iriver didn't think of that
18:49:16Crash91they are rebels
18:49:24mrkikoamiconn: Probably they wan't you play with theyr devices with your own firmware...
18:49:32Crash91theyre too cool to have that kind of mundane stuff
18:49:59mrkikoCrash91: probably... :)
18:50:00amiconnmrkiko: The same thing applies if you flash a broken original firmware, or something goes wrong during flashing
18:50:21amiconnYou cannot recover without special, somewhat expensive hardware
18:51:09mrkikoamiconn: aniway ... probably I have one of those players definitely market-death..
18:51:20amiconnThe iAudios supported by rockbox (X5 and M5) are also coldfire based, and those have a quite good recovery concept
18:51:30mrkikoI may be better in changing it ... even if it's perfect from an hardware point of vbiew.
18:51:31imulatori have a problem
18:51:58imulatori have undefined instruction at 1060020 on my screen and i cant turn off my sansa
18:52:08 Quit axionix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:52:25amiconnBut other than the lack of a proper recovery concept, the irivers are nice targets. Especially the H1x0 has several features not found in newer/more popular DAPs
18:52:26Crash91imulator: hold the off kay for ~20s
18:52:44Crash91more like 15s but yeah hold it
18:52:50Crash91until the screen goes blank
18:52:53 Join axionix [0] (
18:53:18imulatormhh i have no album art
18:53:25imulatori changed it to cover.bmp
18:54:17Crash91imulator: personally i dont use it, you could ask someone who does
18:54:17mrkikoamiconn: if I would change the player, what player may you tell me to choose? Are you in accord with the buyer's guide on wiki=
18:55:36 Join Frazz [0] (
18:55:42imulatormhh i have sansa 260e and it works fine
18:55:48imulatorbought before 2 days
18:56:03mrkikoamiconn: aniway, I'll not fill a bug report from home - my brailel device is totally broken or so; in fact I have any time I want to read, frozze the Linux screen ...
18:56:05imulatorbut im noob in mp3 players what is good or not^^
18:57:27 Join webguest10 [0] (i=98216b42@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
18:57:36imulatormhh i think the album art is too big
18:57:52bertrikI have a sansa e260 too and it's very nice, also less expensive than an ipod
18:58:41mrkikobertrik: how much disk space?
18:58:45imulatoryes and with rockbox same features as ipod
18:58:50imulatormhh not quite the same
18:59:02imulatoru can chhose: 2 4 or 8 i think
18:59:04bertrik4 GB
18:59:07imulatorwith micro sd slot
18:59:17imulatorso u can increase up to 4 gb
18:59:42imulatorwohooo i have album art xD
18:59:52imulatorsize is 65x65^^
19:00:20Crash91i have 2gb+1gb microSD ^^
19:00:28imulatorwatching videos at sansa is nice^^
19:00:44imulatorbut for complete films i think to small space?
19:01:43 Quit J-23 ()
19:02:03Crash91imulator: you can convert them
19:02:13Crash91for rockbox, and they are smaller
19:02:26 Quit webguest10 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
19:02:32Crash91but depends....i personally dislike wathcing video on such a small screen
19:02:52Crash91if you have VLC installed, there is a easy way
19:03:08imulatormhh but for driving to school a good similarity^^
19:03:13imulatoror free lesson^^
19:03:20Crash91lol yes i agree
19:03:44imulatorhow big is the screen?
19:03:44Crash91half our class are away on trips..and when i was "listening to music" you can tell i wasnt looking at my book ^^
19:03:54imulatorok thx
19:04:09Crash91if you have VLC it is very simple
19:04:19mrkikothx -> not allowed; someone may ban you
19:04:39imulatori have vlc
19:04:49imulatorwhy is thx not allowed?
19:04:58 Join Uncle_Tom [0] (i=8d185554@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
19:05:15Crash91imulator: windows?
19:05:43Soapsee the topic, imulator.
19:05:44Crash91 download this file and simply drag a video onto it and VLC will open and convert it for you
19:05:51Crash91copy the file produced to your sansa
19:06:09mrkikoimulator: read IRC guidelines ...
19:06:20Crash91i have watched a full movie which i recorded off TV, the size went from 1.8GB to ~250MB
19:06:32mrkiko or something similar. I personally dislike those, but I should respect them as I wish stay there without problems.
19:06:34imulatorcan i say thanks?
19:06:40imulatoror thank you?
19:06:58Crash91lol yes yes, its just the guidelines are wierd
19:07:17mrkikoimulator: I know also people remembering others about guidelines is ... just tedious...
19:07:34imulatordont know tedious
19:07:39imulatori'm german
19:07:47Uncle_Tomhello, may I asked if someone knows about the problem that the sansapatcher doesn't find my sansa e200 v1?
19:08:04 Quit desowin (Remote closed the connection)
19:08:09imulatorput the file in the root of your player
19:08:35mrkikoimulator: stressful, right...
19:08:40Uncle_Tomimulator: do you talk to me now?
19:08:41imulatorand start
19:08:43bertrikUncle_Tom: is your sansa in MSC mode?
19:09:00imulatormrkiko ?
19:09:01Uncle_Tomjepp, everything fine with the "how to install"
19:09:16imulatoryou mean its not good for you?
19:09:21Uncle_TomI uploaded all files to .rockbox
19:09:28Crash91no it is anstrengend
19:09:31imulatorbut sansapatcher?
19:09:38imulatoranstrengend ah i know now^^
19:09:46Crash91:D my german is so useful
19:09:46imulatorsansapatcher on root
19:09:50imulatornot .rockbox
19:09:56imulatoryes i see
19:10:11Uncle_Tomsansapatcher must be on the player?
19:10:21Crash91Uncle_Tom: copy sansapatcher, right click on your sansa and past, run from there
19:10:25imulatorexample: F:
19:10:33Uncle_Tomok, wait a moment
19:10:46pixelmasansapatcher needs to be on your computer
19:10:48bertrikUncle_Tom: there's no reason to put sansapatcher on the device itself I think
19:11:18Crash91i dont think that is would make a difference
19:11:19imulatorif i connect my sansa to my pc in rockbox mode it dont works
19:11:21Uncle_Tom@bertrik: that is what I thought, too
19:11:34imulatormhh i too
19:11:46imulatori did only work on the player^^
19:11:46Crash91its in read-only mode, so raw disk usage shouldnt make a difference
19:12:03mrkikohey guys! Not natively-english people and boot-loader installations are not good things togeter :)
19:12:04Crash91mrkiko: you havent asnwered my question
19:12:05pixelmaUncle_Tom: what operating system are you on?
19:12:16Uncle_Tomwin xp
19:12:21bertrikdo you have a recent version of sansapatcher? what version does 'sansapatcher −−version" show?
19:12:25imulatorwindows vista
19:12:40Crash91mrkiko: im indian, and have never had a problem with rockbox bootloaders
19:12:41imulatorand ubuntu linux
19:12:41pixelmaand you run sansapatcher as administrator?
19:12:56imulatordesktop pc
19:13:03Crash91damn i have a lappy
19:13:09pixelma(my question was to Uncle_Tom
19:13:13imulatorare ^^ allowed`?
19:13:24Crash91dont worry unless someone says something :)
19:13:31Uncle_Tomok, the hint was the administrator
19:13:40 Join desowin [0] (
19:13:47Uncle_Tomyou must be admin to run sansa patcher successfully
19:14:10pixelmaimulator: probably less, but there is also a rule about short lines, read the link in the topic ;)
19:14:26Uncle_Tomwhy (the hell) do I need admin rights to read a port
19:14:46Uncle_Tompixelma: thanks
19:14:59Uncle_Tomrest: thanks, too
19:15:02imulatorwithout admin rights windows is mhhh
19:15:08imulatori wouldnt say stubid
19:15:29imulatorbut its not so good as you use with admin ;-)
19:15:48pixelmaUncle_Tom: glad you got it working :)
19:15:54Uncle_Tomimulator: are you german?
19:16:27Uncle_Tompixelma: me too, quite curious about trying rockbox now
19:16:58Uncle_Tomimulator: ach schön, ich auch (me too, for all anglosaxon speaking people here)
19:17:11pixelmaUncle_Tom: well, you actually write to the device (the new bootloader) though can't tell you much more about the details...
19:17:50imulatormhh haste das installations programm?
19:17:53bertrikUncle_Tom: make sure to check out various themes, they make it look so much better
19:18:21 Join Domonoky [0] (
19:18:33Uncle_Tombertrik: just let me go home from work and then I can spend the whole evening trying new themes
19:18:56Uncle_Tomimulator: ja, läuft jetzt alles
19:18:58imulatorwich player do you have uncle tom?
19:19:01imulatorah gut
19:19:13imulatorah hab 10 mehr ;-)
19:19:17Uncle_Tomupps 260
19:19:32bertrikrbutil makes installation of themes and other stuff really easy, download it from
19:20:15Uncle_TomI'll try rbutil, too. I already downloaded it but it didn't work for the install process
19:20:27 Join mud-rb [0] (
19:20:28Uncle_TomI suppose that I would have needed admin rights, too
19:20:44pixelmaUncle_Tom: at least for the installation... what I wanted to say :)
19:21:25Uncle_Tombut to work with rbutil, do I have to boot the original firmware or can I use rockbox?
19:21:42imulatorlass den sansa ma aus
19:21:46imulatorund verbinde mit pc
19:21:50imulatordann kannste installieren
19:21:54Uncle_Tomok, danke
19:22:01Crash91german not allowed here :P
19:22:03imulatorweil mit rockbox kann ich irgendwie net verbinden
19:22:07advcomp2019imulator, english please
19:22:17imulatorshoul i translate?
19:22:39Uncle_Tomhe just told me that I should connect the sansa being switched off
19:22:45pixelmaimulator: please stop that and stick to the guidelines, you broke them multiple times now and it's getting annoying. There are there for a reason which you would know if you had read them.
19:23:02imulatori read them
19:23:14imulatorbut saw nothing about german district
19:23:30Soapreread the fourth bullet point
19:23:44Crash91oh for the love of arguing about guidelines, just go to #crash to talk in german :P
19:24:36Crash91correctly-spelled English << emphasis on english
19:24:38imulatorthe fourth said that i have to used grammatical correctly words
19:24:42scorche|wCrash91: many times are you going to plug your channel in here?...this is the 5th time by my estimates
19:25:18Soapimulator, read it again, you continue to miss a key word
19:25:18imulatormhhh i go out here
19:25:20imulatorits late
19:25:35imulatori cant englisch very good
19:26:01Uncle_Tomat least you talk germanized english :)
19:26:05imulatorso i only understand not all
19:26:21Crash91scorche|w: well, ill try to do that as many times as i can wihtout alerting anyone :)
19:26:40imulatormhh byebye^^
19:26:43imulatori go sleep
19:27:05 Quit imulator ()
19:27:34DomonokyCrash91: now you have alerted someone, so please stop it... :-)
19:27:50Crash91i kinda got that when he said it :)
19:27:55pixelmaUncle_Tom: to copy files over to the Sansa you boot into the original firmware because Rockbox doesn't have its own USB implementation yet (it's being worked on). That will happen automatically if you plug the USB cable when the Sansa is turned off
19:28:41*scorche|w wonders if he really has to add a "no advertising" guidelines
19:28:53*scorche|w steals the s away to be used at a later time
19:28:54mud-rbpixelma: i thought that the automatic booting to OF was disabled with the new start of USB code (at least mine doesn't anymore)
19:28:57Uncle_Tompixelma: I just realized recently as I plugged my sansa to the usb port
19:29:59bertrikmud-rb: indeed something seems to broken in that regard, mine reboots maybe half the time
19:30:05*Crash91 wonders why there isnt a #rockbox-german or #rockbox-foreign-languages
19:30:31Soapbecause splintering of effort is wasteful
19:30:33pixelmamud-rb: works for me (on a Sansa c200),
19:30:49bertrikpixelma: does the display turn off just before rebooting?
19:31:12mud-rbpixelma: hmm, i wonder if that's some kind of bug then. mine i have to manually boot to OF or it never does it
19:31:46Uncle_Tomok, guys, I'll be off now. time for some evening freetime - otherwise myjob will eat me
19:32:00mud-rbmine is an e200 though, maybe that makes a difference somehow
19:32:01Crash91hmm, i updated mine the day the new USB stack was released, and it still autoboots OF
19:32:13Crash91e200 btw
19:32:18pixelmabertrik: are you asking about rebooting from an off-state or from a running Rockbox?
19:32:26bertrikfrom a running rockbox
19:32:27 Quit Uncle_Tom ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
19:32:38mud-rbCrash91: oh, did you update your bootloader too? i bet that's why mine doesn't (i did)
19:32:42bertrikmine boots fine into the OF when booting from off-state
19:32:47Crash91off-state i mean
19:33:00Crash91is it meant to while running RB?
19:33:31mrkikoCrash91: off-state probably is when the player is off
19:33:50pixelmabertrik: that didn't work correctly before and is now more reliable for me (with the new USB stack).
19:34:25mrkikoCan someone fill a bug report for me about the iriver boot loader not booting in the OF when .rockbox miss, as the manual says? I'll may do it tomorrow... but I don't know...
19:34:35bertrikpixelma: and does the backlight turn off when rebooting from a running rockbox?
19:34:36Crash91yes, i wondered when i saw my friend's ipod reboot automatically, that the feature was not implemented on the sansa
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19:35:08pixelmabefore it got stuck on the Rockbox USB screen about 50% of the times and the backlight turned off, but you could see it in certain light
19:35:14mud-rbmine does a nice hard crash when the USB is inserted, which is sort of like a reboot :)
19:35:44Crash91mud-rb: ah! thats the reason why my RB was crashing allt he time on usb! i wanted to charge
19:36:00Crash91the LCD screen "clouded up" on me
19:36:09pixelmabertrik: yes, backlight is flickering a few times quickly
19:36:25mrkikoI think rockbox breaks our hardware :)
19:36:32bertrikhmmm, there's an i2c command to the backlight controller to disable the backlight just before reboot but it doesn't seem to work on my e200, i think the sansa is rebooted before the command is fully executed
19:36:33*Crash91 runs off to fetch his sansa
19:37:36bertrikactually the i2c command seems to mess up some settings
19:37:39Crash91crash on USB
19:38:03bertrikCrash91: I also get the "clouding" effect, it happens when the LCD is no longer refreshed AFAIK
19:38:32bertrikCrash91: but does it work consistently, i.e. does it _always_ reset or just sometimes?
19:39:02Crash91second time: didnt go to USB screen, charge icon shows
19:40:32Crash91when i tried to conenct it to my satellite box to charge it crashed consistently 3-4 times
19:41:01Crash91third time: crash
19:41:42Crash91crashed again
19:41:46 Nick j0tt is now known as jott (n=j@unaffiliated/jott)
19:41:51jottNico_P: pong
19:41:58Nico_Phi :)
19:41:59bertrika crash, not a reboot? I think the clouding effect is normal for a reboot and probably not harmful.
19:42:14Crash91let me check
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19:43:04Sam1337IpodLinux ftw!
19:43:35Crash91yes, crash not reboot
19:44:01Crash91wow the LCD is completely purple..
19:44:16mrkiko... hey... after carefully reading it, I modified trivially the iRiver boot loader...
19:44:29mrkikobut Now I can't test it, and I'll never do probably. If someone can help me some way...
19:44:47mrkikoI know channel is logged, so LinusN may contact me when I'll re-login tomorrow or so
19:44:57 Part Sam1337
19:44:58pixelmaCrash91: when did you last update your bootloader? The display turning purple was often reported with an older one on the e200s...
19:45:12Crash91ages ago
19:45:30Crash91id say maybe august? definitely july
19:45:59Crash91guess its time to update
19:46:11mrkikoCrash91: be careful
19:46:37Crash91its easy :) update with sansa updater, and patch with sansapatcher :)
19:48:48*Crash91 thinks it would be wonderful if sandisk eventually funds rockbox
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19:53:31mrkiko-me updates rockbox
19:53:36mrkiko*** sorry
19:53:40*mrkiko updates rockbox
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20:05:03 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]")
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20:08:16*mrkiko waits for rockbox to end playing the last song on the folder
20:08:23mrkikoWill it crash?
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20:41:53fr0y0anyone here using theri iAudio X5 with rockbox? :>
20:42:04ChrononWhy does wav2wv seem to have no documentation?
20:42:24n1sChronon: maybe no one wrote documentation for it?
20:43:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:43:16pixelmafr0y0: anyone around here with an X5 probably does... ;)
20:43:34Chrononok. It doesn't seem to have any wiki entries, nor is it mentioned in the manual.
20:45:05fr0y0pixelma, do you? ^^
20:45:19pixelmaChronon: most probably it's not the only thing lacking (good) documention
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20:45:36fr0y0i just would like to hear some reports about the overall "performance" of rockbox in the X5 :)
20:45:44fr0y0since i'll get mine on saturday
20:46:04pixelmafr0y0: I only have the "brother" of it - the M5 :)
20:46:25amiconnWho is in charge of the build server?
20:46:30n1spixelma: s/probably/definitely :>
20:46:47pixelmayeah, pitily
20:46:52Chrononpixelma: Right, properties.rock also doesn't seem to be mentioned in either place. I don't have much knowledge of either of these, but I'll start a couple of stubs on the wiki at least.
20:46:55amiconnIt's still missing the arm multilib patch
20:47:18amiconnChronon: properties.rock isn't meant to be called directly
20:48:02n1sI actually think i added some blurb about the properties thing to the manual... anyway it isn't exactly difficult to figure out
20:48:14 Part Daolan
20:48:16*amiconn thinks we should have a list of all build servers and their admins
20:49:16Chrononok. Well, I'll start a stub for PluginWav2wv and add it to the plugin list anyway.
20:49:20n1syep, properties is mentioned (and explained briefly) in the "File Menu" section
20:49:22scorche|wamiconn: google says "perplexity"
20:49:38Chrononok... I didn't properly search the manual for that one, just the wiki
20:49:59Chrononbye for now. . .
20:50:13 Quit Chronon ("Back to work")
20:50:14n1sChronon: the manual is supposed to be the primary documentation for users
20:52:06pixelman1s: wanted to ask you something... currently the system chapter in the manual is wrong for some targets (like mentioning disk poweroff or battery and so on) and no easy way to opt it. What do you think about adding some "UseOption"s to the platform files like "BATTERY_TYPES" and so on and rework it based on this?
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20:53:15n1spixelma: I think that the more stuff that is controlled by the platform files, the better, makes stuff much easier :)
20:53:16amiconnThe 'disk poweroff' option does no longer exist
20:53:29pixelman1s: somewhat similar to the features.txt so to speak :)
20:54:28pixelmaamiconn: was just a bad example then
20:54:46pixelmabut things like anti-shake buffer and so on
20:54:54*amiconn thinks pixelma meant 'disk spindown'
20:56:23pixelman1s: ok, will have a try then. Currently the c200 manual is quite a bit off there...
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20:58:55dionoea /win 35
20:59:02dionoea3~ /win 35
20:59:22pixelma/loose :)
21:00:38pixelmaone o too many but...
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21:11:30n1spixelma: minor changes to system settings chapter committed shouldn't affect anything you are doing though
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21:13:38pixelman1s: no problem at all since I haven't started yet. I just had a look at the manual and the source and thought about possible solutions :)
21:14:38n1spixelma: I like sort-of mirroring the #defines from config-*.h files in the platform files to make things easy to remember
21:15:18pixelmaI imagined it like the features.txt somehow...
21:16:56stripwaxjhMikeS - thanks *very* much for the comments on 8226 - really appreciate it!
21:17:07*stripwax goes digging
21:17:12n1syeah, that could work too, will require some sort of parsing though but would be easy to maintain, especially if it uses #defines directly
21:18:56pixelman1s: I didn't think this far only that there could be these "UseOption"s with the same name
21:20:08pixelmawould be above my head anyway to set something up to automatically connect the two
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21:21:50n1swe could probably use the features list directly and somehow automate creation of the appropriate UseOption's hmm, will need some sort of perl/Makefile vodoo...
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21:23:50n1sand the neither lang files nor the manual would be hurt by features that don't apply to both
21:25:30 Quit Mathiasdm ("Ik ga weg")
21:27:29pixelmawell this also means some rework of some parts of the manual that should use those new options
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21:31:08n1spixelma: yes of course or else it would be pointless. however we don't need to do it in one hit as the manual will not care about UseOption's that it doesn't use
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21:33:10pixelmayes, true
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21:38:35pixelman1s: so how would I start? Creating the options I need by hand, using the same names as the features.txt (maybe uppercase?) and hope they are still correct once there is an automtic creation for them?
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21:48:38 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
21:49:11LloreanAlright, the guy from Helix/Real should be calling me in ~1 hour. Did anyone have any final concerns, ideas, or things I might bring up?
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21:57:08LearAbout licensing?
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22:01:37stripwaxjhMikeS - hm, where is CACHEALIGN_AT_LEAST defined?
22:09:09stripwaxah, CACHEALIGN_AT_LEAST_ATTR
22:14:29preglowLear: i can't make ps files work again :/
22:16:20LearSound like crap, or what?
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22:23:13n1spixelma: I dunno but it would just be a simple search and replace if we need to change the names
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22:27:10*petur slaps Lear: the proper term is 'sound like bag of shit'
22:27:45*stripwax chuckles
22:27:57*pixelma wanted to say something similar but didn't find the right way to put this :)
22:28:07*n1s wonders what's upp with that helix thing
22:28:54n1sare we trying to get them to gpl it or what?
22:31:37LloreanMy goal is just trying to find out if they have any ideas about how we could legally use their code.
22:31:47LloreanIf their idea were "We can GPL it", of course, I wouldn't mind. ;)
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22:35:15RincewindSoap, Domonoky, are you here?
22:35:44RincewindI just posted in the german bar thread
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22:36:47*Domonoky is here
22:38:06Soapso you'll be there Saturday, Rincewind?
22:38:09Learpreglow: Send me a patch if you want another pair of eyes on the problem.
22:38:24RincewindI'll be there
22:38:51Soapbring construction blocks to build a tower!
22:39:13Rincewindand I'll bring my 2 rockbox devices!
22:40:45 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]")
22:40:59Domonokyso i will come too.. but i only have one construction block aviable at moment :-)
22:43:05Soapsweet - 4!
22:43:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:44:26scorche|wDomonoky: so a 5 hour round trip to stay an hour? =P
22:44:51 Quit Siku ()
22:44:53Soapsour grapes
22:44:58Soapsour grapes
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22:46:40Domonokyscorche: no i will stay at rincewinds box... so its 5 hours round trip, with a longer stay :-)
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23:10:12 Part Domonoky
23:13:08LloreanThe phonecall is done.
23:13:25*scorche|w waits
23:13:40LloreanBasically, there's no way as things currently stand (codecs as derivative works) that there's really anything we can do.
23:14:07safetydanshame, but not unexpected
23:14:16scorche|wpretty much
23:14:30*petur waits for the 'but...'
23:14:40LloreanBut some points were made to me. 1) There's a faction in the company that really likes to get RealAudio/RealVideo other there, and would probably be interested in exploring other ideas (sounded like closed source codecs, or other similar things) if a solution to the derivative work question were resolve.
23:15:09scorche|wpetur: i saw the period and didnt think Llorean would start a sentence with a "but" =P
23:15:15Llorean2) The Rhapsody guys would probably be interested in talking with us about trying to support Rhapsody content somehow.
23:15:29safetydanthat's interesting
23:15:35preglowwell, i'd love a way to make that work
23:16:33LloreanThose are really the boiled down essence of the whole conversation. The reason they stick with the RPSL is the patent protection, so they really can't do anything about that for the AAC codec.
23:16:33scorche|wLlorean: so did we get some names and numbers of others who would liek to speak to us?
23:16:55LloreanWe got a "Talk with your guys, and if the attitude there is amenable, I can put you in contact with our guys"
23:17:08 Quit Jon-Kha (Remote closed the connection)
23:17:56safetydanI'm imagining some sort of binary blob with a wrapper to interface to the Rockbox code. Sort of like the nVidia drivers under Linux.
23:18:32LloreanSeems the most likely end result to me
23:19:40preglowi'm not the slightest bit interested in anything binary
23:19:44preglowi'd rather roll my own
23:19:56preglowand have immense trouble in the process
23:19:59Clintsafetydan: btw, I don't think it's appropriate to conclude that supporting 2^32 small text comments means exceeding 300 bytes is misuse
23:20:16LloreanHe did mention that the Rhapsody stuff was just implementing an API, and that "you guys shouldn't need any source" but I don't know how that really works since it uses UMS transfers.
23:20:31LloreanOr at least, I thought it did.
23:21:18safetydanClint: actually the problem was more subtle than that. Or at least I think it is. The 300 only applies to an individual comment. What's causing your comments to fail is the fact that they span more than one ogg page.
23:21:22 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection)
23:21:36Clintsafetydan: right, presumably
23:22:06Clinti should verify the page lengths
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23:22:31safetydanthat would be good to confirm the theory
23:25:26scorche|wLlorean: well considering on the Rs "Rhapsody mode" is UMS and "PlaysForSure mode" is MTP...
23:26:02Lloreanscorche|w: But it could simply be cleverly UMS compatible.
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23:49:39peturI don't see what UMS/MTP has to do with a codec
23:52:30n1sI don't see why we would want to support drm infested music with binary blobs...
23:53:42pixelmathat was about Llorean's (2) - Rhapsody mode. The (1) was about real audio or video codec, IIUC
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23:54:01dan_an1s: Because giving people a choice is a good thing. Even if it's the choice to do utterly bone-headed things.
23:54:17 Quit Clint (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:58:45n1sdan_a: I think it's not worth the trouble, if we get some kind of problems with these blobs (bugs or whatnot) we can't do anything about it and if we want to change something like the codec api they might impede that to. Also i would imagine they wouldn't want people to RE so would require some weird license...
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