#rockbox 2007-12-12

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#rockbox log for 2007-12-12

00:00:14	*	scorche\|w wonders how much this has to do with rockbox at this point
00:01:11	amiconn	hmmmmrmmmm
00:01:44	Olof	scorche\|w: nothing at all
00:02:02	*	scorche\|w nudges a bit towards #rockbox-community
00:02:26	Olof	its ok, were done
00:05:08		Part jpt9
00:06:21	pixelma	the pf scrolling album title looks /very/ weird when it only has to scroll a few pixels, it looks almost as if it bounces
00:07:39		Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
00:07:47	jott	pixelma: any ideas how to improve this?
00:08:14	jott	(and it actually does bounce ;)
00:09:32	pixelma	the bidirectional scroll in the file browser/menus stops for a short while before it starts scrolling into the other direction
00:10:27	pixelma	I think that looks better
00:11:03		Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
00:11:09	amiconn	Why doesn't the plugin just use lcd_puts_scroll()?
00:11:17	*	amiconn would have expected that
00:12:38	jott	amiconn: because 1) the threaded rendering needs too much workarounds while rendering 2) it does not allow easy fade out 3) it's just 3 lines of code
00:13:01	amiconn	fade out? :>
00:13:26	jott	hey bling to the extreme ;).. the names fade out while scrolling
00:14:19	preglow	and yet are still not alpha blended!
00:14:19	preglow	haha
00:14:32	amiconn	gfx overkill flash ;)
00:14:52	amiconn	Nm, shouldn't matter to me, I'll probably never try it myself
00:15:52	jott	preglow: hehe well if lcd_putsxy would do this i would be happy ..
00:16:45	pixelma	I'm just toying around with it a bit, as I said it's something to show off but I don't find it handy enough to build my playlists...
00:17:20		Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:17:26		Join einhirn [0] (n=Miranda@p5B030BFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:17:53	*	amiconn can't be bothered to make tiny BMPs from his (few) album art images just to try something he would never actually use
00:18:18	jott	pixelma: yeah it has its own purpose.. and generating playlists is probably not the main use case ;)
00:18:26		Join lemur_ [0] (n=lemur@76.89.214.49)
00:18:36	amiconn	I rather keep these few images in decent resolution as jpg
00:19:17	jott	why not both? ;)
00:19:30	amiconn	The advantage being?
00:19:39		Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:19:44	amiconn	Nothing for me, but additional work, and diskspace taken
00:19:44	jott	if you're bored you can flick around ;)
00:20:03	stripwax	what's the advantage of keeping the albumart in jpg?
00:20:31	Olof	stripwax: smaller space
00:20:33	pixelma	I already made a few to try album art in the WPS. this is what you get for curiosity. But at least I have an opinion that's based on something that I really tried. :)
00:20:55	stripwax	Olof - no, I mean, since albumart doesn't support jpg, why keep high-res (or any res) jpgs at all?
00:21:12	Nico_P	stripwax: have you seen there is now resizing in the pluginlibs?
00:21:17	pixelma	to watch it in the jpg viewer?
00:21:21	Olof	stripwax: im using foobar2000
00:21:24	amiconn	stripwax: I can display them and zoom in to see the details. And it takes less diskspace
00:21:24	stripwax	Nico_P - I'm rebuilding sliding_puzzle as I type :)
00:21:26	Olof	stripwax: there i can view album art
00:21:27	stripwax	yep
00:21:29	Nico_P	cool :)
00:21:43	Olof	stripwax: then i dont want 100x100 bmp, id rather view 500x500jpgs
00:21:46	Olof	but i got both now
00:21:50	stripwax	Olof - ok cool. actually my 'what's the advantage' question was originally for amiconn
00:21:51	Olof	doesnt consume much extra space
00:22:05	Olof	oh ok
00:22:18	stripwax	Olof - but do you put your 500x500jpgs on your dap?
00:22:32	Nico_P	stripwax: and smooth resizing is on its way
00:22:35	Olof	stripwax: well i just copy the folders, then i do a *.jpg search and delete them
00:22:48	stripwax	Nico_P - awesome!
00:22:50	stripwax	Olof - :-D
00:22:58	Olof	stripwax: as i got most in high resolution i can save about 200mb then ^^
00:23:04	Olof	for fitting more music :D
00:23:14	amiconn	stripwax: There's the jpeg viewer - imho it's 100 times more useful to keep album cover images as high-res jpeg than as thumbnail bmp
00:23:17	stripwax	heh. amiconn, do you keep the jpgs on your dap?
00:23:22	stripwax	ah.
00:23:23	amiconn	Yes, a few
00:23:28		Join lemur__ [0] (n=lemur@76.89.214.49)
00:23:38	Olof	i cant see anything negative with keeping both
00:23:44	Olof	bmp's takes 30kb each, thats nothing
00:23:58	pixelma	stripwax: you can even view them on the Archoses as jpg (although not when music is playing) :)
00:24:31		Quit stewball`ghost (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:24:47	stripwax	amiconn - right, and that's a separate app (at least for the time being), and while I can see the general usefulness of a jpeg viewer, is it useful for viewing albumart?
00:25:12	amiconn	Definitely.
00:25:14	uski	if it's in the code, why not use it..
00:25:18	stripwax	heh, true
00:26:48		Quit ender` (" Some people have one of those days. I've had one of those lives.")
00:27:06	stripwax	amiconn - cool then
00:29:20	stripwax	Olof - true, although if wps supported jpgs it wouldn't be necessary
00:29:44		Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:30:27	jott	http://sse2.net/rb/imlib2-based-scaling.diff here is the first proposal for integrating the smooth scaling into lib/bmp ( @ Nico_P )
00:30:56	Nico_P	jott: thanks :)
00:31:04	Olof	stripwax: yea, i would love that feature
00:31:20	Olof	stripwax: but still rockbox is amazing
00:31:29	jott	stripwax: and smooth scaling ;)...
00:31:31	Olof	so making that small effort to convert em to get all the other features
00:31:36	Olof	its worth it, for me at least
00:32:22	stripwax	jott :)
00:32:39		Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-72-76-187-15.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)
00:33:30	jott	yeah and when you are used to scripting, converting all images you have is a matter of seconds up to a few minutes ;)
00:35:09		Quit lemur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:35:14	stripwax	and there's plenty of other apps to bo that batch conversion too
00:35:32	stripwax	^bo^do
00:35:38		Quit JETC- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:35:39		Quit lemur_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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00:36:12	amiconn	Batch conversion would require a consistent naming scheme of the source images
00:36:15	jott	yeah.. actually i wrote a 15 line ruby script to extract the aa embedded into my mp3s and convert/resize it to "album name.bmp".. took a few minutes ;)
00:36:19		Quit animeloe (Remote closed the connection)
00:36:38	jott	or was it python? .. don't remember..
00:38:14	jott	anyway.. everbody is welcome to stress test my scaling patch (to go back ontopic ;-)
00:38:15	stripwax	amiconn - something like Album Art Aggregator can download the source images and resize in one go, I think
00:38:58	stripwax	jott - I'm rebuilding sliding_puzzle to use the new simple resizing, and then will give your patch a whirl too
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00:39:41		Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:39:51	Nico_P	jott: very nice :)
00:39:59	jott	yeah you can just drop-in replace simple_resize_bitmap with smooth_resize_bitmap
00:40:31	stripwax	yeo
00:40:33	stripwax	yep
00:41:55	Nico_P	jott: maybe it would be worth putting the smooth resize in its own file and make all the provate functions static
00:42:11	Nico_P	still using bmp.h though
00:42:26		Join TheBiggerGuy [0] (n=chatzill@client-81-107-65-141.bmly.adsl.virgin.net)
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00:43:44		Part Olof
00:45:49	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:47:08	pixelma	stripwax: ah, it was the resize that was missing. A few days ago JdGordon asked what was keeping it from committing and I only remembered that there was one open issue...
00:47:56		Quit evilnick ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:48:14	stripwax	pixelma - right, sliding_puzzle (re)implements bitmap resizing but now that simple_resize_bitmap is in svn I'm switching to that instead
00:50:41	amiconn	Does the new sliding_puzzle work for bitmap targets without aa?
00:50:55	stripwax	yes
00:51:42		Join Rincewind [0] (i=HhG3Pp4E@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de)
00:52:44	stripwax	For mono targets, it does no more or less than it does today, however.
00:52:49		Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
00:54:06	amiconn	Hmm, I didn't check how sliding_puzzle works now, but the mono targets also have read_bmp_file()
00:54:49	amiconn	So they could (and imho should) also support loadable puzzle images
00:56:36		Quit Alonea ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]")
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00:57:49	stripwax	Yep, arguably they could and should. I'll see how straightforward that would be (mono targets wouldn't be able to resize meaningfully, for example). Up to now I've been using the same default puzzle bitmap for all targets, in fact, but with the resize changes it makes sense to ship the puzzle bitmap that fits the target without needing resizing
00:58:46		Quit n1s ()
00:59:02		Quit scorche\|w ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:59:22		Part TheBiggerGuy
00:59:51	amiconn	Mono targets could also resize, but I don't think that's necessary
01:00
01:00:05	amiconn	And heck, you could even make it use the grayscale lib
01:00:18	amiconn	(hopefully soon the all-new greyscale lib) :)
01:00:25	Nico_P	amiconn: is smooth scaling useful on non colour targets?
01:02:00	stripwax	amiconn - hm.. maybe ..
01:02:40	amiconn	grayscale lib couldn't use too many shades though, or the plugin wouldn't be usable during playback on archos
01:02:52		Quit evilnick ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:02:57	amiconn	greyscale lib will be all-or-nothing in that respect...
01:04:42		Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら")
01:04:50	Nico_P	amiconn: have you seen my question above?
01:04:51		Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:06:14		Join TheBiggerGuy [0] (n=chatzill@client-81-107-65-141.bmly.adsl.virgin.net)
01:06:44	amiconn	Nico_P: Why not?
01:07:02	amiconn	Doesn't make sense for mono targets as a core function though
01:07:30		Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
01:08:21	Nico_P	amiconn: don't know... I thought maybe with few shades of gray the difference between smooth and nearest neighrbour could be minimal
01:09:02	amiconn	There's dithering. And there might be targets with more than 2 bit greyscale
01:09:08	Nico_P	ok
01:09:25	amiconn	Gmini 2xx would have been an example (4 bit greyscale)
01:11:24	Nico_P	would it make sense to aim towards implementing the smooth resizing directly in the core?
01:13:13		Quit PaulJam (".")
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01:15:32	saratoga	Llorean: around?
01:15:39	preglow	man, these lang files are getting big
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01:21:14		Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
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01:23:32	preglow	rasher: here?
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01:24:56		Part TheBiggerGuy
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01:30:11		Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら")
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01:36:57		Part toffe82
01:38:35	preglow	what's up with all the duplicate SYSFONT entries in the lang files?
01:41:13	*	amiconn wonders whether that's a serious question
01:42:13	preglow	it surely is
01:42:16	preglow	why wouldn't it be?
01:43:10	amiconn	Because we already had that question many times...
01:43:40	amiconn	They are for screens which use the sysfont, because the sysfont only supports latin1 characters
01:44:08	preglow	we != me
01:44:27	amiconn	They can go as soon as all localised screens (i.e. all user screens) are converted/ fixed to work with the user font
01:45:31	preglow	requiring sysfont is nasty :/
01:45:35		Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:45:37	amiconn	yup
01:46:00	amiconn	But the recording screen still does, and probably others
01:46:42	amiconn	(not sure which ones - the more features rockbox gets, the less I am using, at least it seems so)
01:47:25		Quit dan_a (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:47:36	preglow	i'm on a fairly constant level no matter what rockbox has
01:47:44	preglow	i select files in the browser and play them, that's about that
01:48:04	preglow	the recording screen sins bigtime, yes
01:48:05	amiconn	Button bar is another example
01:48:10	JdGordon	rec screen, quickscreen(?) and pitch screen are the last ones i tinhk
01:48:20	amiconn	Quickscreens use the user font
01:48:42	amiconn	(but are ugly due to layout - need viewports for a nice fix)
01:49:05	JdGordon	doesnt it fallback on sysfont if it doesnt fit?
01:49:11	*	JdGordon tired and probably wrong
01:51:54	preglow	man, i hate options like "Disable resume on startup if phones unplugged"
01:52:07	preglow	because they're a bitch to translate without using a zilliong words, and because they're bloat
01:57:29	Alonea	preglow: awww, poor dear. glad I don't do any translations, though I wouldn't be much help anyway since I am only so so at japanese
02:00
02:00:39	preglow	well, it's quite self-inflicted, for some reason i decided to sync a language i never use...
02:03:27		Join ralphy [0] (n=na@137.216.192.220)
02:03:53	Alonea	preglow: ^__^. its ok. we can't help it.
02:05:22	preglow	i think most of these headphone options are bloat...
02:06:35		Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら")
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02:17:21	Alonea	preglow: yeah, pretty much. you would not happen to know if anyone was going to add options for the textviewer to turn off the left and right buttons going to the end or beginning of a document?
02:17:33		Quit Soap (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:18:05	preglow	Alonea: not at all
02:18:09	Alonea	preglow: I have accidentally pressed them a bajillion times already, and its a pain to get back where I was.
02:18:15	preglow	amiconn: norsk.lang seems to be badly ordered, any way to fix that?
02:18:28	Alonea	preglow: safetydan was saying he thought someone was, but wasn't sure.
02:19:17	Alonea	preglow: i've been meaning to possibly make a patch for it, but my knowledge of c is pretty lacking. I might try after finals are over.
02:19:31		Join Soap [0] (n=Soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
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02:22:48		Join ZeekDaGeek [0] (i=406ef461@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-452c163635d87e75)
02:23:04	ZeekDaGeek	Hey.
02:23:12	Alonea	allo ZeekDaGeek
02:23:26	ZeekDaGeek	I got a little problem...
02:24:10	ZeekDaGeek	I installed rockbox a while ago when you use to have to use the command prompt bootloader version
02:24:20	ZeekDaGeek	and now I cant uninstall the bootloader. :\
02:24:49	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: which player?
02:25:01	ZeekDaGeek	iPod 5th generation.
02:25:26	ZeekDaGeek	I dont want to back date it because I dont have the room on my computer to store anything...
02:25:33	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: ah, sorry. don't know anything at all about ipods. on mine, I just drag a file over.
02:25:35		Quit Seedy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:25:39	ZeekDaGeek	Just wondering if you guys have a file database...
02:25:49	ZeekDaGeek	of your old stuff.
02:25:57	ZeekDaGeek	Archive, thats the word.
02:26:47	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: archive of older bootloaders? I think so. also, you can download older versions of rockbox with svn as well.
02:27:17	ZeekDaGeek	Where would that be at...
02:27:50	preglow	btw, shouldn't "optical output" have on/off instead of yes/no ?
02:28:25	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: try here http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/
02:29:01	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: there is also an archive folder under there too if you look
02:29:40	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: hopefully you will find what you are looking for.
02:30:55	ZeekDaGeek	Thanks :D
02:31:12	ZeekDaGeek	Now for trial and error to find out which one I have.
02:33:14	ZeekDaGeek	Whats the cmd prompt thing to run a file...
02:34:10	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: umm, windows or linux? also can depend on filetype. are you looking for ./file.extension ?
02:34:31	ZeekDaGeek	Windows, ipodpatcher.exe
02:35:06	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: hmm, I though in windows you just typed in ipodpatcher or ipodpatcher.exe while in the directory to load it.
02:35:35		Join midkay_ [0] (n=midkay@65-102-136-41.tukw.qwest.net)
02:36:12	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: its what we did in the ole dos days to load exes
02:36:15	ZeekDaGeek	Not recognized as a command...
02:36:25	ZeekDaGeek	It loads and all when i double click
02:36:32	ZeekDaGeek	but doesnt stay open long enough to read
02:36:47	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: hmm, does it say in the manual how to do this or no?
02:37:20	ZeekDaGeek	I remember last time i just typed the full path somewhere
02:37:26	ZeekDaGeek	then it gave me a bunch of commands
02:37:29	ZeekDaGeek	like -i for install
02:37:31	ZeekDaGeek	and stuff
02:37:40		Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
02:38:04	ZeekDaGeek	Ahh
02:38:05	ZeekDaGeek	there we are
02:38:07	ZeekDaGeek	Found it
02:39:07	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: good.
02:40:09		Quit Rincewind ("bye")
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02:40:26	ZeekDaGeek	Start -> Run -> Path\ipodpatcher.exe if anyone asks.
02:41:52	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: ah, ok. basically same thing as dos. but then in msdos things are reaaaal finicky.
02:42:16	ZeekDaGeek	Yeah i figured i could go into cmd and run it from there...
02:42:23	ZeekDaGeek	But it doesnt like that idea
02:42:52	ZeekDaGeek	and if you just double click it desides that you dont need to keep the window open to type.
02:43:05		Join psycho_maniac [0] (i=psycho_m@ppp423.hk.centurytel.net)
02:43:05	Alonea	ZeekDaGeek: figures. bloody msdos...at least run command works
02:43:53	ZeekDaGeek	Now to never get RockBox again untill they fix their battery issues >:
02:44:13	ZeekDaGeek	Basicly the only thing thing that ever turned me off of it :\
02:44:36	psycho_maniac	what player?
02:44:50	ZeekDaGeek	Then reading about them knowing and being like "Oh we havnt even started working on that"
02:44:53	ZeekDaGeek	iPod.
02:45:17	ZeekDaGeek	5g 30gig.
02:45:23	ZeekDaGeek	Video
02:45:29	psycho_maniac	coding for rockbox takes time and they do it as a hobby pretty much. they have lives too.
02:45:32	ZeekDaGeek	I want to get the ipod touch. drewls
02:45:54		Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:45:55	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:46:09	ZeekDaGeek	Except i think it must have a billion problems with scratches on the screen
02:46:35	psycho_maniac	Have you checked flyspray for patches or bugs for your battery problem.
02:47:08	ZeekDaGeek	Flyspray for rockbox problems?
02:47:22	psycho_maniac	the patch tracker
02:47:48	psycho_maniac	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/index.php?type=4
02:48:11	ZeekDaGeek	Nope.
02:48:32		Part pixelma
02:48:40	psycho_maniac	by the way. what do you have problems with your battery?
02:49:36	preglow	we've never said we're not even working on the battery issue
02:49:54	ZeekDaGeek	Rock box just drains it faster
02:50:05	preglow	feel free to just sit down and start disassembling the retailos and help us along with fixing it, it's a bloody complex issue when you have no hardware documentation, as you'll discover if you try
02:50:10	ZeekDaGeek	and preglow, it says that you guys know about the problem and arnt even planning on addressing it any time soon
02:50:33	preglow	we know about it, and we have no idea why it happens, because we have no documentation on the hardware
02:50:46	preglow	we basically have to plow through the disassembled code of apple's os to find out what they do, then duplicate that
02:51:04	preglow	it's not something everybody knows how to do, and it's a big job even for those who do
02:51:06	ZeekDaGeek	Defensive. o.o
02:51:20	preglow	yes, since you claim we say we're not even working on it
02:51:35	ZeekDaGeek	Because you say you have no plans on even addressing it right on the website!
02:51:41	preglow	where?
02:51:53	psycho_maniac	i have the 5.5g 80gb ipod video and i get pretty good battery life.
02:53:31	preglow	we'd love nothing more than fix the pp502x power issue, so i can't imagine where on the web site it says we have no plans on fixing it
02:53:41	ZeekDaGeek	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodStatus
02:53:42	ZeekDaGeek	It said right there
02:53:46	ZeekDaGeek	previously
02:53:49	ZeekDaGeek	when i use to use rock box
02:53:51	preglow	we've already fixed it on 1-3g ipods, newer ones are more complex
02:53:56	ZeekDaGeek	that you guys werent working on the power issues
02:55:12	preglow	i don't see where it says we have no plans on addressing it...
02:55:22	ZeekDaGeek	Perviously it did.
02:55:26	psycho_maniac	oh i only got 12 hours on my ipod. i did a battery benchmark
02:55:38	ZeekDaGeek	And thats when i stopped using it
02:55:57	ZeekDaGeek	I got like 6 or 7 hours before :\
02:56:10	ZeekDaGeek	It would be way low by the end of the day.
02:56:12	preglow	you'll still only get something around that
02:57:02	ZeekDaGeek	Should make it so the screen goes off if after so long and just have it play without displaying anything.
02:57:05	ZeekDaGeek	That'd save power
02:57:15	preglow	that'd save almost nothing
02:57:20	preglow	the lcd uses very little power
02:57:27	preglow	the backlight is what sucks it down, but we've got that covered
02:57:46	ZeekDaGeek	yeah i know that.
02:58:37	ZeekDaGeek	And little power adds up still... and what about all the calculations the cpu needs to do on displaying current proccess persents and stuff... i'm thinking thats where it would save
02:58:55	preglow	the problem is almost certainly that somewhere inside the portalplayer chip, there are some unused components we don't shut down
02:59:03	preglow	but since we don't even know they exist, we can't shut them off
02:59:17	ZeekDaGeek	I got an idea! :D
02:59:27		Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
02:59:27	preglow	the ipods run the same code as our other targets, and on most other targets, rockbox has better battery life than the default firmware
02:59:30	ZeekDaGeek	steals psycho's ipod and takes it appart
03:00
03:00:03	psycho_maniac	i wouldnt care. i love my gigabeat
03:00:24	ZeekDaGeek	Okay, mail it to the following address....
03:00:47	psycho_maniac	heh
03:01:28	ZeekDaGeek	Hrm. iPod linux is an evil system... trying to format stuff >:O
03:02:33	ZeekDaGeek	Have to make a portal though that way you could have ipod linux, rockbox and default installed then pick between which ever
03:03:45	ZeekDaGeek	So defragged, completely removed rockbox bootloader which seemed to be the source, and cleaned up my ipod... maybe now it'll work faster...
03:04:11	ZeekDaGeek	I really should of cleaned up before i defragged...
03:04:12	ZeekDaGeek	>:
03:06:48	ZeekDaGeek	I'm going to miss rockbox's solitare. ;-;
03:07:07	psycho_maniac	Nobody is stopping you from uninstalling it.
03:07:18	ZeekDaGeek	already did.
03:07:20	ZeekDaGeek	:D
03:07:59	ZeekDaGeek	And i think you mean no one is forcing you to uninstall o.o makes more sence in my head atleast.
03:08:20	psycho_maniac	heh your right.
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03:19:07	tate_	Hey all, I've got a Sansa E260 that I'm trying to install rockbox on, but the utility can't seem to detect it.
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03:19:19	tate_	I've tried it in linux and then VISTA
03:19:54	tate_	It definetely works; it powers up when plugged-in to my computers
03:20:03	tate_	so it works.
03:20:50	psycho_maniac	haybe its an R series?
03:21:09	advcomp2019	tate_, you might even have a v2
03:21:19	psycho_maniac	oh did you select the correct usb setting in the original firmware?
03:22:53	ZeekDaGeek	Did you try jumping up and down and yelling at the device untill it stopped sleeping on the job?
03:23:25	ZeekDaGeek	I think I'll just go, my problem is fixed and my random comments are lame :D
03:24:08	psycho_maniac	how do you add a checkmark in a wiki page?
03:24:10	tate_	I tried the two different modes
03:24:20	tate_	There's MTP and the other one
03:24:23	tate_	neither works
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03:25:11	ZeekDaGeek	Not knowing much about the structure but I think its a normal Wiki image linked to the checkmark image.
03:27:03	ZeekDaGeek	Oh oh oh
03:27:10	ZeekDaGeek	Wheres the guy i was fighting with...
03:27:44	ZeekDaGeek	prelow: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodStatus?rev=61 −− Quote: " Battery Life Not started"
03:28:11	ZeekDaGeek	Well automatic update tells me to restart so i must obay
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03:30:50	advcomp2019	tate_, you need to have in MSC mode but that is weird that it does not work
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03:41:04	countrymonkey	I'm just watching, I am bored, I want to see what you all are up to.
03:43:20	countrymonkey	How come nobody is talking?
03:44:17	Alonea	well, we would talk, but your here. wink
03:44:53	countrymonkey	Hey, is there a way in which you can get 1 cfg file to be used for 1 dirrectory of files and another to be used in another dirrectory without manually changing them?
03:45:18	countrymonkey	So what if i'm here
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03:46:00	psycho_maniac	you mean for like sorting files?
03:46:16	Alonea	countrymonkey: just taking the piss hun. sure the chatter will start back up eventually.
03:46:32	countrymonkey	Oh no. I want one cfg file for 1 dir and another cfg file for another dir.
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03:47:34	psycho_maniac	what settings do you want in them?
03:48:33	countrymonkey	mI want shuffle on and play selected first off and crossfade always in my music dirs, and I want all those settings in reverse for my audiobook dirs
03:49:34	mister_pink	Hi, I've just finished reinstalling my linux setup, run the script to set up my build environment and tried a build to test it and I get loads of errors along the lines of "warning: pointer targets in initialization differ in signedness". Any ideas why?
03:50:38	psycho_maniac	the only think i can think of is to make these cfg files WITH JUST THESE settings and save them with # on top and then when you enter that folder click on that to load these settings.
03:51:12	countrymonkey	Thanks. But could this be automatic?
03:52:31	psycho_maniac	as of now, no. check the patch tracker.
03:53:02	mister_pink	countrymonkey: I'm sure it could be, and it's not actually a terrible idea so someone might take it up and write a patch.
03:53:38	countrymonkey	I'm adding a feature request. When I come back from the bathroom.
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03:57:33	mister_pink	More info on my build problem (although I say problem, it does actually build just with a truck load of warnings): the sim builds fine. I'm going to bed now but I'll check the logs in the morning so thanks in advance!
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04:02:25	countrymonkey	There. I added 8304.
04:08:57	psycho_maniac	anybody know the wiki page that show syou how to use images just by doing something like %Y% ?
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04:26:21	McEnroe	what filesystems does rockbox support?
04:26:30	karashata	FAT32
04:26:37	McEnroe	only?
04:26:42	karashata	yes
04:26:42	scorche	yes
04:27:00	psycho_maniac	and it will NEVER support anything else.
04:27:11	scorche	officially at least
04:27:42	McEnroe	but not very good, does it? at least windows wants to format my ipod because it can't find a filesystem. linux can't repair it, but at least mount it
04:28:19	scorche	what does that have to do with rockbox?
04:29:27	McEnroe	because rockbox kills the filesyste,
04:29:41	scorche	no it doesnt
04:29:57	*	karashata has been using Rockbox for several months now and never had any issues with file system corruption or the like
04:30:46	McEnroe	i had this kind of stuff 3 times. once under windows once under linux and once both. i _always_ umounted it correctly
04:31:07	scorche	Rockbox does not kill the filesystem
04:31:43	scorche	i very much doubt a bug like that would show up on only one (that we have heard about) out of thousands of users
04:32:01	scorche	have you run the disk under a diagnostic?
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04:37:12	McEnroe	scorche: like what
04:41:03	DogBoy	heh, I'd be more inclined to blame windows
04:41:30	DogBoy	without any evidence it's a mute point
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05:33:19	psycho_maniac	anybody know a wiki page that has a table with multiple comments in it ?
05:36:02	psycho_maniac	i wanna know the best way to put multiple comments on a table
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06:03:51	tkooda	my F40 w/rockbox appears to be hung and I can't turn it off?? -hitting any buttons wakes up the lcd for a few seconds and lights up the side buttons, but tapping/holding any* of them (or even the "hold" switch) have zero affect??
06:04:14	Mouser_X	Turn it off with the battery switch?
06:04:25	Mouser_X	(That's on the bottom, by the serial port.)
06:04:56	tkooda	aah, yah. success. forgot about that switch. worked. odd though.
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06:05:24	Mouser_X	What were you doing at the time to cause this?
06:05:51	Mouser_X	I've had it happen on mine occasionaly, but it's pretty rare.
06:05:58	tkooda	was in usb mode, and might have unplugged usb before unmounting it
06:06:24	Mouser_X	That might do it. Though, I can't say I've had that problem.
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06:10:37	tkooda	thanks.. later
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07:03:39	pezz	hey. i was wondering if the ipod nano version had a sleep timer feature
07:04:39	Mouser_X	I don't know, I don't have an iPod. However, I'm of the impression that it does. But I'm probably wrong. Check the manual, I would assume that information could be found in there.
07:05:19	pezz	Would it be a plugin?
07:05:44	Mouser_X	I have no idea on that one at all... Sorry.
07:06:02	Mouser_X	Personally, I'd assume it'd be in the settings somewhere, but I really don't know.
07:06:25	scorche	pezz: it does have that feature
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07:06:33	pezz	Actually thanks I found it
07:06:53	Mouser_X	Yay. (@ pezz finding it, and me being right that it does have that feature.)
07:07:35	pezz	I thought it was called something else. But thanks for directing me to the manual.
07:08:21	pezz	Now I could go to sleep worryfree. Good night!
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07:13:17	ptw	where in the trunk is sendfirm.c for the gigabeat S?
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07:15:10	Mouser_X	ptw: check the commits 4 weeks back? It might still be there?
07:15:18	Mouser_X	(I really don't know.)
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07:16:06	ptw	i found it
07:16:13	ptw	lots of progress
07:16:21	Mouser_X	Good.
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07:34:02	Lucid	I've found that the server of IRC logs of #gigabeat(http://www.hack.id.au/files/gigabeat/irc/gigabeat/) has been down for few days
07:35:16	scorche	Lucid: it would be better to ask in there
07:37:15	Lucid	scorche: OK, thanks.
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08:01:42	Mr_T	hello
08:02:14	Mr_T	i have a quick question, does an iriver h10 have to be in ums mode to use rockbox?
08:04:25	Mr_T	anyone?
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08:04:48	Mr_T	hello?
08:04:58	karashata	to put it simple, yes
08:05:06	Mr_T	cool thx
08:05:10	karashata	no problem
08:05:12	Mr_T	will change it over:D
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08:14:15	GodEater_	Llorean: ping
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09:58:22	karl__	I want to put puzzle bobble / frozen bubble on my iriver h10 20gb model; i already have the latest build, but I don't see it listed in the games menu. How can i get it on?
10:00
10:01:53	GodEater_	karl__: the rockbox plugin is called "bubbles"
10:02:05	karl__	ahh
10:02:08	karl__	thanks a bunch
10:02:12	karl__	i guess i just skipped over it
10:02:14	karl__	seeing it now
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10:03:54	karl__	i appreciate the help
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10:10:31		Quit phr_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:12:06		Nick phr__ is now known as phr (n=phr@adsl-75-62-4-229.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net)
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10:15:40	phr	does anyone know if the sansa c240 is supposed to automatically recharge (with the stock firmware, i haven't loaded rockbox yet) when i plug it into a powered usb port with no computer at the other end?
10:18:07	karl__	it should if it normally charges via usb
10:18:13	karl__	having a computer at the other end doesn't matter
10:18:21	karl__	as long as the power is flowing
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10:19:35	phr	hmm, i let it "charge" overnight and the battery meter is still at 1 bar
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10:20:30	karl__	you're sure the port is powered?
10:21:02	karl__	have any usb toys you can plug in to test it, like a light or something?
10:21:14	phr	yeah, when i plug it in the screen lights up, and if the player is turned on when i plug it in, the battery icon starts pulsing up and down indicating that the thing is charging
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10:21:27	karl__	bad battery maybe
10:21:27	phr	i don't have any other usb gadgets
10:21:36	karl__	it is definitely charging
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10:21:39	karl__	your battery might be bad
10:22:07	phr	possibly bad battery, i just got the player as a refurb, is it likely they don't test or replace the battery when they refurbish?
10:22:26	karl__	i don't refurbish them myself, but i would say that there is a good chance
10:22:28	phr	i bought 3 of the players (16 usd each) so i guess i'll open another one and try it
10:22:35	karl__	give it a go
10:22:36	phr	i just hate lithium rechargeable batteries
10:22:48	karl__	i haven't used them much
10:23:01	karl__	i've had good luck so far
10:23:07	phr	i hope there's an m200 rockbox port soon and that they make an 8 or 16 meg m200, it's my favorite player from a hardware point of view
10:23:17	karl__	if you have a warranty i would return it
10:23:34	GodEater_	ports to new targets only happen when people that own the hardware choose to do a port
10:23:35	phr	well i'll try a different c240
10:23:45	karl__	or just let the battery die and ship it back saying it won't stay on for more than a few minutes
10:23:52	phr	godeater, yeah, it looks like there's some active work being done on the m200
10:24:29	phr	actually my other favorite player is the completely obscure frontier lab nex 3, but i gave mine to someone, i'd have to buy another one before i could try a port
10:24:30	karl__	what brand is that? I'm only seeing sony protoges
10:24:39	phr	which, frontier lab?
10:24:47	karl__	m200
10:24:50	phr	sansa
10:24:52	phr	sandisk
10:24:55	phr	great little player
10:25:13	karl__	the frontier labs one is minidisc or mp3?
10:25:24	karl__	ah
10:25:25	phr	frontier labs = mp3
10:25:25	karl__	i see it
10:25:28	karl__	little orb thing
10:25:33	phr	which?
10:25:38	phr	http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Sandisk-Sansa-m260-4GB-Expandable-MP3-Player/2589221/product.html?cid=25608&fp=F
10:25:39	karl__	the nex 3
10:25:41	phr	that's the m260
10:25:46	phr	nex3 looks like a belt pager, sort of
10:25:56	karl__	yeah, that's what i meant
10:25:57	karl__	ahh
10:26:06	karl__	a neighbor of mine has that one
10:26:11	karl__	we have a problem with it
10:26:12	phr	it's way underrated
10:26:19	phr	i'd love to run RB on it
10:26:31	phr	the firmware they ship with it isn't so great, i guess
10:26:34	karl__	you open the directory and it says there isnt enough space to open the directory
10:26:43	phr	barf! i never saw that happen when i had one
10:26:44	karl__	says it needs 4mb free
10:26:50	karl__	even though there is nothing on it
10:26:57	phr	weird
10:26:58	karl__	i haven't fiddled with it much
10:27:03	phr	try reformatting or something
10:27:04	karl__	possible i could reformat it and solve issues
10:27:04	karl__	yeah
10:29:02	phr	here's my big rant about mp3 player hardware
10:29:03	phr	http://forums.neurostechnology.com/index.php?topic=7189.msg39414#msg39414
10:30:51	karl__	not in the mood now, but thanks
10:32:14	phr	np :)
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10:34:00	GodEater_	I thoroughly disagree with your battery sentiments.
10:34:49	karl__	oh?
10:35:02	karl__	please offer your opinion then
10:35:14	GodEater_	and noise cancellation too
10:35:30	Zagor	AA/AAA batteries are only nice if you don't care about size
10:35:35	GodEater_	I'm not interested in having to swap the batteries out ever. Li-Ion is a perfectly good solution.
10:35:43	GodEater_	and noise cancellation is just rubbish.
10:35:58	phr	i use noise cancellation headphones all day at the office, i couldn't live without them
10:36:01	GodEater_	get decent earbud headphones with around 15dB of isolation and it's WAY better
10:36:14	karl__	uh oh
10:36:14	Zagor	in the old archos units, AA cells made perfect sense. they were so bulky anyway. but for newer smaller players, it's impossible.
10:36:16	karl__	headphone wars
10:36:20	phr	and li ion is great if you want to throw out your player once your battery stops holding a charge, like mine the first day i got the player :)
10:36:26	phr	zagor, the m200 is smaller than the c240
10:36:31	karl__	Zagor: the iriver AA models work great
10:36:32	phr	or at least weighs less
10:36:32	GodEater_	don't be daft - get a new Li-Ion battery
10:36:44	GodEater_	my iRiver's lasted for two years, and then I got a new one.
10:36:44	phr	weren't you saying you don't want to swap them out?
10:36:46	karl__	small enough
10:36:55	GodEater_	not every other day no
10:37:01	GodEater_	I don't mind doing it once every two years
10:37:17	karl__	the old archos units blew
10:37:30	karl__	just die out half way through a song
10:37:33	karl__	took all night to charge
10:37:48	karl__	good for the time
10:37:55	karl__	but thumbs down
10:38:03	phr	shrug. i swap out my m200 battery about once a week, don't see what the big deal is. i have a 4-pack of them on my desk (nimh) and eventually get around to taking the flat ones home to recharge
10:38:11	Zagor	karl__: I still use my archos every day
10:38:24	karl__	Zagor: which model?
10:38:30	Zagor	rec20
10:38:33	phr	yeah, the archos is pretty useless by today's standards
10:38:37	phr	rec20 is the one you want
10:38:44	GodEater_	phr: you're saying (in that post) that having it use AA batteries is the killer feature - I'm just saying I disagree with you, and wouldn't buy a player like that.
10:39:12	karl__	i had the studio i think
10:39:56	phr	godeater, sure, i understand there's lots of folks out there who don't understand that simple truth, i've given up on trying to convince them, i just don't see why anyone likes lithium. it's just awful. it's perfectly ok to build a nimh charger into a player to charge internally, if you don't want to swap the cell out in order to charge it.
10:40:07	karl__	i really liked my iriver h100 but the headphone jack only works in one channel unless i press down on the jack, and the line out is noisy
10:40:32	Zagor	phr: it's not a "truth", it's your opinion.
10:40:36	GodEater_	if people require "convincing" then it's not a simple truth - it's simply your opinion
10:40:45	GodEater_	heh - beat me to it Zagor
10:41:12	karl__	i liked my little iriver
10:42:01	Shaid	I have a set of sennheiser in-ear isolating earphones. best investment for public transport music listening I've ever made.
10:42:09	GodEater_	Shaid: me too
10:42:37	GodEater_	and mine are the cheap ones that Sennheiser do too - only around 10dB isolation
10:42:41	Shaid	noise isolation + not looking like a cyberman = win
10:42:47	GodEater_	yep
10:43:18	GodEater_	I tried out Febs uber Shure ear buds and the isolation on those was fantastic
10:43:33	GodEater_	couldn't hear a damn thing from the outside world, even with the music off!
10:43:44	karl__	aa powered
10:43:44	karl__	great battery life
10:43:44	karl__	light weight
10:43:44	DBUG	Enqueued KICK karl__
10:43:44	karl__	i don't have money to spend on the ipods
10:43:44	karl__	as far as smaller lithium players
10:43:44	phr	shrug
10:43:44	phr	godeater what don't you like about the m200? have you used one?
10:43:44	phr	karl, the m200 is smaller/lighter than the c240 and the ipod nano. it's bigger than the shuffle but the shuffle has no display, no ui etc.
10:43:44	***	Alert Mode level 1
10:43:44	karl__	phr: i've held one
10:43:44	***	Alert Mode level 2
10:43:44	karl__	the nano plays video.
10:43:44	DBUG	Enqueued KICK phr
10:43:44	phr	i just haven't felt any desire to make the m200 smaller and i'd be perfectly happy with it if it were slightly bigger
10:43:50	karl__	woa
10:43:51	phr	if i want to watch video i'll buy a tv set
10:43:52	GodEater_	not sure I'm about to drop $500 on earphones though
10:43:53	karl__	i must be lagged
10:43:57	Shaid	funny
10:44:02	Shaid	I think one of the servers is lagged
10:44:07	GodEater_	phr: where did I say I didn't like the m200 ?
10:44:13	karl__	i connected to mesra.kl.my.dal.net
10:44:15	karl__	er
10:44:16	karl__	not
10:44:26	karl__	cause this is freenode durr
10:44:46	Zagor	what are the biggest AAA batteries these days? 1150mAh?
10:45:27	GodEater_	aren't all those AA/AAA batteries still using NiCad ?
10:45:28	phr	zagor i dunno, probably more like 1000, i'm using 800 mah eneloops and they run the player for dunno, 12+ hours at least
10:45:30	phr	nimh
10:45:35	GodEater_	i.e. suffer from memory effects ?
10:45:36	Zagor	that's 1.72 Wh. the stock sansa c240 battery is 2.0 Wh, with replacements available at 2.4 Wh
10:45:59	phr	yeah, replacements at 20 bucks each vs replacement aaa nimh at 2 bucks each
10:46:06	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:46:20	karl__	i think the lithium is probably cheaper
10:46:31	karl__	how often do you have to replace a lithium?
10:46:40	phr	well it sounds like i need a replacement right now...
10:46:52	GodEater_	karl__: see above - 2 years for me
10:46:53	phr	and this is with a player i bought last week
10:46:58	Zagor	karl__: i've never replaced any of my lithiums
10:47:13	karl__	Zagor: i've never had to replace them in my jukebox players
10:47:22	phr	i also need replacement lithiums for each of my 2 cell phones, and for my laptop
10:47:27	phr	lithium just sucks
10:47:32	Zagor	karl__: I have
10:47:45	Zagor	those original green ones don't last forever
10:47:47	karl__	i've only used one frequently for about two years though
10:47:49	karl__	ahh yeah
10:47:50	karl__	in the archos
10:47:57	karl__	i bought mine on ebay and it came with extras
10:47:59	phr	also i had a compaq pda, and the internal lithium crapped out about a month after i bought it
10:48:13	karl__	phr: i think you just have a bad track record
10:48:35	Ctcp	Ignored 2 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10:48:35	*	markun thinks the same
10:48:39	karl__	buying stuff and it just dies on you
10:48:39	phr	and i had a canon digicam that i gave away after replacing the lithium cell for about the 3rd or 4th time at 15+ bucks a pop. i replaced it wiht an AA powered model
10:48:59	phr	and every other cell phone i've had over the years also ate batteries
10:49:03	Zagor	in summary, replacement cost isn't an issue because neither type requires replacement within the first several years. which is about as long as 90% of people keep one player anyway.
10:49:12	GodEater_	yep
10:49:16	phr	1 week = several years???
10:49:22	markun	phr: yes
10:49:24	phr	my c240 already needs a replacement
10:49:30	karl__	it's a trick with quantum theory
10:49:33	GodEater_	you're citing only your own experience here
10:49:33	phr	hehe
10:49:40	GodEater_	90% of uses don't have your issues
10:49:41	phr	well in my experience, lithium sucks
10:49:47	GodEater_	you're one person
10:49:50	Zagor	phr: oh for hecks sake, you got a dud. get over it.
10:49:52	phr	90% of users throw away their players when the battery dies
10:49:59	karl__	phr: it's pretty cool if you throw it in water though
10:49:59	markun	phr: what lasts several years for normal people lasts about 1 week (or at most a few months) for you
10:50:04	GodEater_	you already said it was a refurb anyway
10:50:05	Zagor	phr: no, they throw it away before the battery dies
10:50:19	Zagor	because they bought a new shiny toy instead
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10:50:31	karl__	I'm more familiar with hand-me-down players
10:50:35	karl__	vs dumpster
10:51:05	phr	why should anyone have to buy a new mp3 player once they have one that works? it's not like a laptop where there's serious technical advances. my sony cassette recorder from the 1980's is just as good as the ones they make now
10:51:23	karl__	my headphone jack is dying on an iriver
10:51:31	GodEater_	it's not about "having" to - it's about "wanting" to
10:51:32	karl__	if you have a hard drive player, it is a working part
10:51:33	Zagor	phr: what world are you living in?
10:51:46	karl__	if you have a flash player, flash goes bad after so many writes
10:51:47	Shaid	I dunno, does it take those 'newfangled' metal cassettes?
10:51:53	phr	karl, yeah, flash is a huge advance over hard drives
10:52:03	phr	shaid, yeah the tc-d5m uses metal
10:52:03	karl__	still wears thin
10:52:14	phr	karl, the nex 3 uses an SD card that's why it's my favorite
10:52:25	karl__	that's kinda cool
10:52:28	phr	though nobody is likely to ever overwrite flash in an mp3 player millions of times
10:52:51	markun	... because the battery dies, right?
10:53:22	karl__	zing
10:53:27	phr	karl the nex 3 is practically perfect, it uses one AAA cell and an SD card, its only probs are sucky firmware and inability to use SDHC. but both of those can be fixed with rockbox
10:53:45	***	Alert Mode OFF
10:53:58	markun	phr: do you think there are enough users interested to work on a rockbox port?
10:54:10	markun	do you know what's inside? ARM?
10:54:20	phr	karl, no really, i mean i don't write stuff on my m200 very often, i listen to the stuff that's on it and once in a while delete old stuff and add new stuff. and if it had more flash i'd just add stuff instead of deleting
10:54:28	GodEater_	I'm also not interested in flash as storage until I can get upwards of 50GB of storage
10:54:33	phr	markun, i think it has an arm inside. afaik nobody is really interested in it except me
10:54:49	karl__	GodEater: for sure
10:54:57	phr	godeater, there are 32gb sdhc cards announced, to be available in a few months. two of them and you've got 64gb
10:55:13	karl__	makes nice boot disks though
10:55:29	phr	i sort of think of getting a nokia n800 on closeout (it has two sdhc slots)
10:56:08	phr	markun, i have a nexblack now (frontier's bigger and clunkier player) so i might open it up and take some photos
10:56:19	karl__	nokia e70 is where it is at
10:56:22	phr	e70?
10:56:27	karl__	for sure
10:56:43	GodEater_	phr: Sure - and how much is that going to cost me ?
10:56:50	markun	for me "why should anyone have to buy a new mp3 player once they have one that works?" also applies to phones
10:56:51	phr	which, the nex3?
10:57:03	karl__	i haven't found a phone i really like
10:57:05	Shaid	the 2x 32gb sdhc cards.
10:57:18	*	markun likes his nokia 1100
10:57:19	karl__	...i guess i need something like rockbox for my phone
10:57:21	phr	markun, yes, i liked my old nokia 5185 just fine but lost it
10:57:41		Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com)
10:57:41	phr	shaid, 16gb sdhc cards are about 135 bucks right now
10:57:41	karl__	software/firmware on phones sucks
10:57:48	phr	so about 8 bucks/gb
10:57:48	karl__	hopefully android will be slick
10:57:57	phr	64gb will set you back about as much as an iphone
10:58:10	phr	and it will keep getting cheaper
10:58:18	phr	for audio i'm satisfied with 16gb for the time being
10:58:18	markun	or a really crappy car
10:58:51	phr	you ever see that iphone vs nokia review? i think it's that same nokia phone
10:58:57	karl__	yeah
10:58:58	phr	maddox
10:59:02	karl__	on thebestpageintheuniver
10:59:06	phr	yeah that guy
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11:00
11:00:27	phr	i still have an old motorola flip phone in my drawer
11:00:35		Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@resnet20.nat.lancs.ac.uk)
11:00:42	Zagor	GodEater_: toshiba plans mass production of 32-128GB 1.8" flash drives in may 2008. http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_12/pr1001.htm
11:00:50	phr	kewl
11:01:14	phr	mlc? sheesh
11:01:27	Zagor	probably not cheap though :)
11:02:00	phr	yeah, they're charging more for those things since they're considered high end
11:02:09	phr	but using MLC sort of defeats the purpose
11:03:05	Zagor	you prefer SLC?
11:03:06	*	GodEater_ is none the wiser. I have no idea how much an iphone costs
11:03:24	phr	SLC=fast and expensive, MLC=slow and cheap
11:03:32	phr	if you want slow and cheap, use a hard drive :)
11:03:38	phr	for audio players MLC is fine
11:03:42	markun	or MLC
11:03:45	Zagor	slow is relative
11:03:54	Zagor	it's still a heck of a lot faster than a harddrive
11:04:02	markun	phr: what's the advantage of a HDD over MLC?
11:04:12	Zagor	price
11:04:14	GodEater_	cost ? :)
11:04:16	phr	faster transfer rates and cheaper
11:04:21	phr	MLC has quite slow transfer rates
11:04:55	phr	i broke down and bought an SLC pen drive and it's at least 5x faster than the MLC one that i used to have
11:05:10	phr	but i'm mostly interested in SSD's for servers
11:05:18	phr	and the idea there is to get max speed
11:05:18	*	GodEater_ wonders why this super speed is so important
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11:05:36	phr	well for audio it's not important and mlc is great
11:05:40	GodEater_	presumably you're copying content from a hard drive somewhere - which will limit the speed of the data arriving in the first place
11:06:05	karl__	you're going to get choked there or at the bus
11:06:07	phr	godeater, flash is MUCH SLOWER than hd for data transfer
11:06:14	Zagor	phr: the idea is to get a floppy the size of your fingernail for pocket change. speed is very distant second.
11:06:18	phr	it's faster at seeking (it has no seek delay)
11:06:41	GodEater_	most of the data I use is on a network anyway - which is slower still
11:06:58	phr	zagor, the main ssd application up til recently has been to replace the hard drives in high-end servers in order to get rid of the seek delay
11:07:12	*	GodEater_ wonders who uses such servers
11:07:21	Zagor	phr: again, what world are you living in?
11:07:32	Bagder	ssd drives tend to not be good in servers
11:07:41	Bagder	they write too much
11:07:43	GodEater_	I've never heard of such a thing, and we have some pretty high end toys here
11:08:28	phr	bagder, see this page http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/20/conventional_hard_drive_obsoletism/page7.html
11:08:30	*	markun turned 28 today and feels old
11:08:35		Join Siku [0] (i=Siku@e81-197-68-206.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
11:08:38	GodEater_	markun: get real :)
11:08:41	Bagder	markun: congratulations!
11:08:51	markun	yes, nothing compared to you guys ;)
11:08:54	*	GodEater_ passes virtual beer around
11:09:15	markun	GodEater_: I'll save some for after (or during the last part) of work :)
11:09:32	Bagder	phr: well, several tests have shown server-use to not gain from ssd
11:09:32	GodEater_	phr: that page doesn't show real world usage though - no-one would be mad enough to run a production web server on such a system
11:09:51	phr	well i may be trying it soon :)
11:09:55	Bagder	and the database tests there agree with me ;-)
11:10:04	Bagder	not that it matters
11:10:30	phr	yeah, the sata version of that drive is supposed to be even faster
11:10:34	*	Bagder returns to poking code
11:10:41	phr	and there are some much more expensive ones that are supposedly faster still
11:11:48	phr	anyway at least for my application (search engine) there's a tremendous read seek load and not too much writing, so the ssd seems very promising and i definitely want to try one
11:13:02	Zagor	the read and write speeds of Toshiba large block MLC NAND are 13.55 MB/s and 2.5 MB/s, respectively −− http://www.toshiba.com/taec/news/press_releases/2004/to-420_2.jsp
11:13:04	phr	also until recently, ssd's have been made from ram, rather than flash
11:13:25	phr	zagor, maybe with enough parallel mlc chips they can compete with hd's
11:13:33	Zagor	i.e. more than usb2 speed. so your thumbdrive experience is rather due to controller differences rather than mlc/slc
11:13:53	phr	zagor 2.5MB/s is way slower than usb2 speed
11:14:02	Zagor	that's writing
11:14:19	Zagor	nobody ever said writing flash was fast
11:14:20	phr	yeah, writing is where my older pen drive was pathetic
11:14:27	phr	zagor, the new one i got is fast :)
11:14:59	Zagor	everything is relative
11:15:10	phr	well, it's 5x faster than the old one
11:15:14	phr	maybe more than 5x
11:15:27	Zagor	the point we started with is, OF COURSE the 128GB disk is mlc. anything else would be silly.
11:15:27	phr	but still much slower than a hd
11:15:38	phr	what's silly about 128gb of slc?
11:15:42	Zagor	the cost
11:16:01	phr	128gb of slc would cost less than 2k today
11:16:18	Zagor	yeah, and that's silly
11:16:36	phr	mlc would be maybe half that
11:17:21	phr	these ssd's are way overpriced because of their exoticness is all i can guess
11:17:30	phr	but a 128k drive retails for around 4k
11:17:33	phr	now THAT's silly
11:17:41	phr	oops 128gb
11:17:59	phr	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820609245
11:18:03	Zagor	well it's not like it's a huge market
11:18:07	phr	3.3k
11:18:35	phr	yeah, i have a 16gb CF card with an ide adapter that i haven't gotten around to trying in a server
11:18:46	phr	but it was around 220 bucks iirc
11:18:54	phr	and that was around 6 months ago
11:19:36	karl__	don't you max out your ide bus?
11:19:39	karl__	so what is the point?
11:19:54	phr	no i think the xfer speed will still be much slower than a hard drive
11:20:00	phr	the idea is to get rid of seek latency
11:20:35	karl__	ah
11:20:44	karl__	what kind of servers are you deploying these in?
11:20:50	phr	search engine
11:21:03	karl__	ah
11:21:07	karl__	makes more sense
11:22:12	phr	yeah, for general purpose file storage the cost is ridiculous
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11:25:22	phr	re mp3 players, one nice thing about the nexblack is it has a fairly powerful analog output stage with good sound. i dunno if the nex 3 really compares
11:25:24	amiconn	ide bus? in a server??
11:25:40	phr	amiconn yeah, most boards still have ide connectors
11:25:43	karl__	well, fsb
11:25:47	karl__	depending
11:26:19	phr	i'd only be using the cf card to experiment with. if it works then my boss would probably buy some sata ssd's
11:27:21	Zagor	http://www.rawimages.org/stuff/harddisk.jpg :-)
11:27:21	phr	i'm reading the woot thread about headphones and all these nerds are praising the 1980's era sony mdr-v6 which is funny because i have one of those on my desk too
11:27:34	phr	hahahaha
11:31:03	phr	http://www.tebbo.com/pix/thelastone/TLO01.html
11:35:05		Quit karl__ (Remote closed the connection)
11:36:18	phr	so has anyone here actually worked on porting rb to a new player? i'm interested in the nex 3 but don't have a clue how i'd get started
11:38:23	Ave	do you know what platform the nex3 is using
11:38:29	Ave	like portalplayer or so
11:39:14	phr	ave, i don't know, i gave away my nex3 but am now thinking of buying another one. i do have the impression it's an arm core of some sort
11:39:30	Ave	pp has arm core afaik
11:39:38	Ave	but..
11:42:33	phr	?
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11:43:51	phr	hah, ipod nano spies on you
11:43:52	phr	If you enhance your workout with the new Nike+ iPod Sport Kit, you may be making yourself a surveillance target.
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11:45:29	webguest03	anyone with a H120 and H140 here ?, are the tiny screws which secure the side panels identical on both models ?
11:45:30	jott	stupid(?) question: how to i add a "Related task" to a tracker entry? (The tab just shows a "Remove" button but no "Add" button)
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11:49:40	Nico_P	jott: ah you may not have the right to
11:49:53	Nico_P	I'll do it
11:50:00	jott	8308 -> 5697
11:50:12	Nico_P	thanks :)
11:50:15	webguest03	info about the screws would be much appreciated and I do apologise for the OT'ishness
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11:55:02	jott	Nico_P: thanks too :)
11:56:09	petur	webguest03: the only difference between h120 and h140 is the hdd and the size of the back panel
11:56:24	petur	(afaik)
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12:00
12:00:36	webguest03	thank you petur
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12:22:32	GodEater_	does anybody know if building the Gigabeat S bootloader produces an nk.bin file which is ready to be transferred, or whether is still needs processing with mknkboot ?
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12:30:58	markun	Casainho_: from RockBoxPlayer: "... for lossy audio decoders like FLAC, ..."
12:31:10	Casainho_	yes?
12:31:23	Casainho_	what worng?
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12:31:29	markun	FLAC is not lossy
12:32:22	Bagder	I also find the "ARM9 development boards are expensive" funny since I really don't think so
12:32:26	Casainho_	ah, okok :-) - can you rectifyu that?
12:32:46	Bagder	it all of course depends on your personal view of what expensive is
12:32:47	Casainho_	Bagder: can you say a price of one?
12:32:56	markun	What will SPI be used for?
12:33:01	Casainho_	well, I was comparing with $90
12:33:12	Bagder	90 is dirt cheap
12:33:21	Bagder	I consider everything up to 500 cheap
12:33:27	Bagder	roughly
12:34:31	Casainho_	sorry, I live in Portugal, I have very low budget...
12:34:31	markun	Casainho_: do you know this project? http://www.lartmaker.nl/
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12:37:27	Bagder	Casainho: a player doesn't _need_ RTC
12:38:01	Bagder	if your aiming for low cost, you should leave that out I guess
12:38:22	markun	Or put it in a nice-to-have list
12:39:18	markun	Bagder: does FLAC require 32MB or RAM? Also just nice to have for battery time, right?
12:39:28	Bagder	or even make a list for a high-end player as a comparison...
12:39:35	Bagder	FLAC hardly requires 32mb
12:40:08	Bagder	afaiu, Casainho aims for a flash player and then I suppose a player can have less memory without much badness happening
12:40:34	Llorean	With a flash player, Rockbox ought to be able to get by with <4MB of RAM right?
12:40:45	Llorean	I know that the compressed buffer is often >28
12:40:46	Bagder	I didn't say flac needs 32 mb, that's not correct in the page
12:41:19	mrkiko	What is the name of the player having the most big capacity, hard-disk based and available again on the market supported by rockbox
12:41:24	Bagder	the page also mentions "usb hard disk" which is confusing to me
12:41:25	mrkiko	?
12:41:32		Quit Casainho (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:41:45	Bagder	mrkiko: available as in manufactured still?
12:41:50	Bagder	is there any?
12:42:00	mrkiko	yes, manifactured...
12:42:14	Llorean	There's not one, then
12:42:26	Bagder	is there a single rockbox-target still being made?
12:42:29	Llorean	Currently all known Rockbox targets aren't being manufactured.
12:42:38	Llorean	The v2s phased out the last of them with the Sansas
12:43:36	mrkiko	iPod videos are being made again...
12:43:45	markun	are they?
12:43:48	Bagder	really?
12:44:06	*	Bagder detects that the "RockBoxPlayer" lacks NOR flash
12:44:09	markun	mrkiko: do you have any proof for this?
12:44:20	markun	Bagder: it's a wiki :P
12:44:26	Bagder	yeah
12:44:56	mrkiko	markun: ... I was thinking what player I will buy when my iRiver will leave me - I hope this will nver happen
12:45:32	markun	mrkiko: I was talking about proof that the ipod video is being made again
12:45:57	mrkiko	mhm...
12:46:05	mrkiko	I don't know the meaning of "proof"
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12:46:14	markun	evindence
12:46:22	Bagder	all we know is that the ipod classic is made
12:46:29	mrkiko	No: it's a supposition. I can find it in many shops here...
12:46:50	Bagder	many of these players can still be found in shops...
12:47:11	Bagder	markun: so I edited it ;-)
12:47:32	mrkiko	mh... it's a sad thing ...
12:47:57	GodEater_	also, the ipod classic is easily confused with the ipod video
12:48:17	GodEater_	a lot of people keep thinking that the classic is a video, and wondering why Rockbox does not work on it
12:49:01	*	pondlife wonders why the H300 Cabbie 2 theme zip contains several "thumbs.db"
12:49:05	markun	Bagder: is the SPI controller used tot talk to the flash memory?
12:49:17	GodEater_	pondlife: because the author wasn't careful when he zipped it ?
12:49:25	pondlife	Indeed.
12:49:30	Bagder	markun: yes, for the 8MB serial flash
12:49:42	Bagder	there's also a 8MB parallell flash on that dev board it seems
12:50:14	markun	Bagder: but that's not needed in a MP3 player, is it?
12:50:22	markun	at least not both I would think
12:50:27	Bagder	not at all
12:50:42	Bagder	it would only need some for the bootloader
12:51:30	Bagder	I believe the biggest ones in our existing targets have 4MB
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12:53:14	markun	the Gigabeat has 1MB
12:53:58	Bagder	h300 has 4MB
12:55:20	GodEater_	hmm
12:55:23	GodEater_	I must be stupid
12:55:40	GodEater_	I can't make Nico's "dual boot" feature on the Gigabeat S work
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12:59:41	preglow	could someone tell me how to automatically reorder a lang file to be correct in comparison to english.lang? :/
12:59:47	preglow	or doesn't it matter?
12:59:53	Bagder	it doesn't matter
13:00
13:01:14	preglow	i wonder how it ended up so randomly ordered it the first place
13:01:24	pondlife	Hmm, just hard-locked my H300 by skipping backwards :/ I'll see if I can repro.
13:01:41	LinusN	preglow: we reordered english.lang but not the others
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13:05:25	pixelma	preglow: reordered by langV2
13:06:07	pondlife	Why don't we have a default viewer for bmp files? rockpaint, at least..?
13:07:28	pixelma	the problem is that genlang doesn't mark differences in the dest and voice part (at least not if "featerexyz:" is missing and it's hard to find all differences if the order is not the same as in english.lang
13:08:02		Quit mrkiko (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:08:06	Bagder	we should probably switch to rasher's xml-based thing and then fix that bug
13:10:11		Quit axionix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:10:28	preglow	yes indeed
13:10:42	preglow	i did my yesterday sync with his webtool
13:10:46	preglow	cool thing, made it quicker too
13:10:55	preglow	i definitely think tools are the way to go for lang files in the future
13:11:36	Bagder	I agree
13:12:12	preglow	much easier to pick up differences that way, even subtle ones, and the editing itself is much, much quicker
13:12:33	Bagder	does it support saving half-baked works?
13:13:05	markun	a friend told me about a BGA socket they are using in their project. A shame they are so expensive.
13:13:19	preglow	i think it does, it just gives you a patch when you say you're done
13:13:53	Bagder	bga socket is kind of a fun oxymoron ;-)
13:14:01	markun	http://www.chipscalereview.com/issues/0403/f2_01.php
13:14:37	markun	but they use this one: http://www.ironwoodelectronics.com/catalog/Process/GHz_BGA_Sockets.html
13:17:01	Bagder	in my projects, they just nail the bga there and then you live with it ;-)
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13:17:21	markun	:)
13:17:51	Bagder	the joy of being sw-guy: you get to whine on the hw
13:18:00	pondlife	lol
13:19:07	dex	hi, is there a need to buy expensive hardware to port rockbox (besides a computer and the target)? do i need a development kit?
13:19:30	Bagder	dex: it totally depends on your target, but most often you just download free software and use that
13:19:43	LinusN	dex: you most often only need a target device
13:21:46	dex	no need for JTAG?
13:22:22	LinusN	not always
13:22:43	LinusN	we have only used jtag for 2 targets, to my knowledge
13:25:56	pondlife	amiconn: You were saying how unstable the current playback engine is, and I think I agree with you. Do you have any reproducible crash recipes?
13:27:36	amiconn	Coldfire freezes a lot, even without playback
13:27:48	pondlife	I'm on H300, so that fits.
13:28:02	pondlife	I suspect dircache.
13:28:11	amiconn	I got at least 5 freezes during the last few days, just by browsing the menu or plugins etc
13:28:20	pondlife	Voice enabled at all?
13:28:25	amiconn	yes
13:28:25	pondlife	I don't...
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13:28:54	amiconn	Voiced menus + dirnames incl. talk clips
13:28:55	pondlife	But no reproducible method, just random hard locks?
13:29:00	amiconn	yes
13:29:11	pondlife	Ah, .talk clips are known broken, no?
13:29:15	amiconn	Paperclip required on irivers
13:29:23	pondlife	Yes, that's what I see
13:29:26	pondlife	But no voice enabled
13:29:30	amiconn	No, they are working fine
13:29:36	pixelma	same on my M5
13:29:55	pondlife	Hmm, I thought you said you had a reliable lock-up using .talk on PP
13:30:04	*	pondlife is probably out-of-date though
13:30:08	DefineByte	regarding the manual: can someone clarify what \index{foo} is used for. Is it merely what the index will use as a heading for that section?
13:30:34	pixelma	but I only recently started using .talk clips (on M5). I wonder if that's related...
13:31:02	amiconn	Atm I don't use non-cf swcodec enough to know whether random freezes happen there too
13:31:09	pondlife	I wonder if http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6239 helps?
13:31:14	amiconn	PP5002 is broken, but that's a different problem
13:32:17	LinusN	i use my x5 regularly and i haven't seen any hangs or crashes, but then i don't use voice
13:32:17	pondlife	i.e loading a talk clip while the previous one is still being output to PCM
13:32:44	pondlife	My H300 has crashed twice today, and about 6 times in the past week
13:32:58	pondlife	Not using voice, but always during playback
13:33:04	pondlife	Normally when skipping
13:33:13	pondlife	Although once for no good reason
13:33:38	pondlife	Seems to be mainly when it's just started up and dircache is scanning
13:34:14	pondlife	I'm running with a silly playlist of 35000 entries
13:34:55	Zagor	gosh, iphone runs at 620MHz
13:35:27	pixelma	hmm... the freezes I see are just during browsing, not during letting it play
13:35:32	DefineByte	anyone here familiar with LaTeX?
13:36:04	pondlife	pixelma: But only if you have .talk clips enabled? Maybe you could experiment...
13:36:37	pixelma	can't answer this question just now, it really needs some experimenting, yes
13:36:46	pondlife	Indeed.
13:37:57	preglow	DefineByte: somewhat
13:38:14	petur	amiconn, pondlife: I don't use any voice functions and have not had any hardlocks recently
13:38:27	pondlife	petur: Do you use dircache?
13:38:31	petur	yes
13:38:49	pondlife	OK, so you're in a similar setup as me, except mine crashes :/
13:39:14	Tuplanolla	Eww, Rockbox stopped working on my Sansa e280. :/
13:39:34	petur	I'll have to double-check the dircache setting then but haven't got my h380 with me here, will check tonight
13:40:00	Tuplanolla	I'm using the latest cpchan rockbox. I was just browsing the database when some error message came.
13:40:16	pondlife	Tuplanolla: We only support the normal build here
13:40:21	DefineByte	is \index{foo} used just when building the index? i.e. I can rename '\index{Boot loader}' to '\index{Bootloader}' and all that will happen is the heading in the index will change? There'll be no dead links anywhere?
13:40:26	Tuplanolla	pondlife: Ok, thanks.
13:40:32	pondlife	Try with that and report back
13:40:33	amiconn	I got those freezes both on H180 and H340. Not on X5, but I use that one a lot less than the irivers
13:41:22	Tuplanolla	pondlife: The cpchan build worked like a week, then crashed.
13:41:44	Tuplanolla	I'll try to reinstall that anyway.
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13:44:36	DefineByte	okay, I found the not so short introduction to LaTeX. I guess that answers my question. x)
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13:44:49	Casainho_	sorry - I was working busy
13:44:57	Casainho_	I did read all that you wrote
13:45:29	Casainho_	Bagder: please rectify the information that is not correct!! :-)
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13:45:40	Casainho_	leave a comment on the forum, If you want
13:46:19	pondlife	Casainho_: Looks like Bagder just edited the wiki page ;)
13:46:31	Casainho_	:-) - I will see the changes :-)
13:47:30	Casainho_	hmmm... I talk at my company, later I can ask for a price to cosntruct this player - I will not get a positive answer since I don't have money to invest, however I will get one idea of the price :-)
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13:54:36	preglow	Bagder: what charset are commit messages supposed to be in?
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13:55:09	Casainho_	markun: no, I didn't know http://www.lartmaker.nl/
13:55:45	Casainho_	markun: what do you think are the advantages of that board? for this project?
13:57:08	markun	Casainho_: nothing really, maybe just for inspiration
13:57:52	Casainho_	do you know the price of her?
13:58:27	markun	Casainho_: nope, sorry
13:58:36	Casainho_	okok
13:59:08	Casainho_	I saw that ARM boards are very expensive, much more than the $90 of that chosed
13:59:53	Casainho_	however, I would like to know what is the minimum hardware to have a cheap player
14:00
14:00:06	Casainho_	I will ask ideas in forum
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14:08:14	pixelma	argh, DefineByte is gone now, couldn't have answered his question atm but would like to know what he's working on...
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14:16:04	GodEater_	I wish Twiki had the "discussion page" feature that mediawiki does =/
14:25:38	CaptainSquid	why not using mediawiki then?
14:26:15	GodEater_	not my call
14:26:28	GodEater_	and there maybe a plugin for twiki which mimics that feature
14:34:48	Casainho_	It would be nice if Twiki have a log feature for edits, and also a discussion...
14:34:56	Casainho_	but discussion can hapen on forum
14:34:56	GodEater_	it already has a log
14:35:04	GodEater_	that what the revision history is at the bottom
14:35:24	Casainho_	I must starting use log funciton :-) :-) - thakno you
14:35:52	GodEater_	and imo have a discussion relating to a wiki page in the forums is a bit disjointed
14:36:12	GodEater_	having this feature of mediawiki is nice because it keeps the discussion right next to the page you're discussing
14:36:37	Casainho_	yes, yes, about discussion you are right
14:37:03	Zagor	the main twiki site uses <topic>Discussion topics for that. not terribly elegant imho
14:38:21	GodEater_	shame =/
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14:57:44	GodEater_	anyone know where linuxstb has got to lately ?
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15:00
15:00:06	kugel	I wonder if the resize algorithm of pictureflow plugin can be ported to the WPS for AA resizing
15:02:16	jott	kugel: also see ticket 8308 .. i ported the imlib2 code to rockbox
15:02:26	kugel	I've read that
15:03:03	kugel	I've added a comment, I'm a bit confused o that task
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15:07:37	kugel	jott: can you explain that patch a bit for me?
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15:12:22	jott	kugel: ticket..
15:12:36	jott	(reply ;)
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15:13:42	kugel	thanks
15:14:06	kugel	when I compile that, can I remove bmp_resize patch from my build?
15:14:53	jott	no not exactly.. atleast not for now
15:15:24	kugel	So, this can be used to resize the AA, but not at the moment?
15:15:47	jott	well it can be used to resize any given "struct bitmap"
15:16:13	jott	it's not integrated anywhere for now, just the method and a test case
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15:16:57	Llorean	jott: Scaling up, down, or either way, and is it better suited for either specifically?
15:18:03	jott	it's not agnostic, as it compares the sizes and uses different algorithms
15:18:18	jott	for scaling up and down
15:19:18	Llorean	Gotcha. Just thinking. If BMP resizing were in the core, scaling iconsets to font size might (at least in some cases) look nicer.
15:20:00	jott	possibly. it would be nice to investigate indeed.
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15:31:03	kugel	Are the devs keen on a resize feature (maybe even in the core) or is it unlikely that any resize algorithm gets committed (i.e. Llorean doesn't like that since resizing pictures on a pc is much more efficient)
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15:33:26	petur	I'm for it. I have album art twice now, both big for the PC and small for rockbox. But I just got the album art to check it out, I don't really need it.
15:34:26	pondlife	It's not difficult to batch resize/convert
15:34:34	pondlife	I vote for small core
15:34:43	Llorean	I think as long as the algorithm is small and fast enough, it should be okay
15:34:59	Llorean	I don't like asking people to have album art multiple times for various themes.
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15:35:37	petur	I'm not saying it is hard to batch resize, I'm saying it is stupid to have it in multiple sizes
15:35:45	pondlife	I don't like the buffer size reductions I seem to have seen recently. Seems to be down from 29 to 25MB for some reason.
15:35:52	Llorean	Ouch
15:35:52	petur	as I sync my whole music tree between pc and dap
15:35:55	Llorean	Where'd we lose 4mb?
15:36:22	pondlife	Possibly quite a bit was my HD upgrade. 80GB and I usethe database.
15:36:38	Llorean	Aaaah
15:36:41	pondlife	petur: What about multiple formats? BMP/JPG.
15:36:44	GodEater_	and you filled the whole disk ?
15:36:50	pondlife	Not yet :)
15:37:03	pondlife	I could do
15:37:24	petur	pondlife: I could live with using BMP on the PC, diskspace is not a problem there
15:37:28	pondlife	Nice to have as a backup if nothing else.
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15:38:17	pondlife	OK, I just find I normally obtain AA in JPG, so would need to convert it once at least
15:38:38	pondlife	Typically, my PC copy is in "original" format/size
15:38:52	pondlife	i.e. as good a quality as I have managed to obtain
15:39:48	pondlife	Anyway, yes, resize is ok as long as it's a small bit of code.
15:39:55	pondlife	No big buffers!
15:40:44	petur	jpg->bmp does not degrade quality I think
15:40:48		Nick joshin_ is now known as joshin (n=joshin@unaffiliated/joshin)
15:40:58	Llorean	jpg->bmp is just a waste of HD space, nothing more.
15:40:58	pondlife	Nope
15:41:07	Llorean	pondlife: Agreed on the big buffer thing
15:41:30	*	GodEater_ wills Nico_P to reappear
15:41:33	Llorean	But since we're using MOB anyway, you aren't wasting space unless you have album art already.
15:41:43	pondlife	Yes
15:41:52	Llorean	And I think what we were wanting was "resize on load, and resize in place in the buffer"
15:41:52	pondlife	But the resize must work inside that memory
15:42:35	jott	the imlib2 currently uses approx ( LCD_WIDTH * 2 + LCD_HEIGHT ) * sizeof(fb_data) + LCD_HEIGHT * sizeof(fb_data*)...
15:42:44	Llorean	jott: That's a lot.
15:43:02	Llorean	Well, not a lot
15:43:05	jott	:)
15:43:15	jott	it's a bit, yeah more than nothing ;)
15:43:20	Llorean	But the kind of amount we'd like to avoid if possible.
15:43:56	jott	well it's a tradeoff between memory footprint and performance
15:44:29	Llorean	Well within a plugin, memory footprint hardly matters.
15:44:38	pondlife	But in the core...
15:44:41	jott	and the buffer space user-allocatable..
15:44:46	jott	..could be..
15:45:00	Llorean	Within the core, where most bitmaps should be resized once upon load, performance probably takes a back seat to footprint in some cases
15:45:08	jott	but it would decrease the ease of use of such a method
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15:45:45	Llorean	A single resize of a 200x200 or less bitmap something like 5 or less times in a full buffer fill is not going to be a significant delay almost no matter how slow you're talking.
15:46:45	lazer	hello
15:47:31	jott	Llorean: yes it really depends on the use-case..
15:48:51	Llorean	jott: If it were to be used within the core, though, the use case is almost entirely going to be on bitmaps loaded for themes such as icons (in a hypothetical future), or album art.
15:48:52	markun	preglow: did you see the codec jmspeex is working on? http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/vorbis-dev/2007-December/019109.html
15:49:01	jott	but as said the lookup table currently used could be put in a user-definable area..
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15:51:53	preglow	markun: yeah
15:51:55	preglow	markun: even tried it
15:52:53	preglow	bbl
15:53:03		Quit petur ("gonne")
15:53:13	lazer	i`ve a question to rockbox-firmware. i have an ipod nano 1st generation. is it possible to control the ipod via my alpine full speed radio if rockbox is installed? or does this only work with orginal apple firmware? thanks
15:53:19		Quit hannesd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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15:56:50	PaulJam	Llorean: you mentione the possibility to resize icons to the fontsize. Would theis even work for icons that use transparency?
15:56:58	GodEater_	lazer: it's fairly probable that you'll only be able to do that in the original firmware
15:58:10	markun	PaulJam: with nearest neighbour it should work (and look pretty bad I think)
15:58:15	Llorean	PaulJam: I'm sure special cases would be needed both for the transparent and foreground colors
15:58:34	lazer	hm...
15:59:29	markun	lazer: we don't have support for the serial protocol used by a lot of ipod accesories
15:59:46	markun	lazer: here's some info about the things we do support http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodAccessories
16:00
16:00:04	lazer	ok.thanks
16:00:10	lazer	:)
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16:02:32	Llorean	I'd imagine you'd have to do something like take a mono mask of the transparent color, scale that mono mask, replace the transparent color in the original image with something, scale it, then use the scaled mask to draw in new transparent pixels. (Note: I know very little about image scaling, just a wild guess)
16:03:23	webguest27	What is MoB? - it's not listed in IRC slang.
16:03:42	GodEater_	Metadata On Buffer
16:03:51	markun	webguest27: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MetadataOnBuffer
16:04:02	webguest27	ok, thanks.
16:04:36	GodEater_	it's not really IRC slang, it's very specific to Rockbox
16:04:37	jott	without alpha-channel you will always get aliasing artifacts on the edges...
16:05:09	Llorean	jott: But if you don't have alpha channel, aliasing artifacts are better than nothing.
16:05:52		Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:06:24	jott	the easiest approach would probably be to just ignore pixels with the key-color..
16:06:43		Quit CaptainSquid ("Miranda IM!")
16:06:44	Llorean	Ignore them in what sense?
16:06:49	jott	and then either prefer them or neglect them
16:07:07	Llorean	Ah
16:07:13	jott	ignore them when interpolationg
16:07:49	Llorean	Yeah, there are two key colors for bitmaps in Rockbox, generally. One for "Transparent" and the other for "Use the foreground color instead"
16:07:51	*	jott wonders if there is any kind of research papers about this :)
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16:09:43	PaulJam	does the special foreground colour work in the whole firmware? so could i use it for example in the wps or is it only for iconsets?
16:09:52	Llorean	PaulJam: I believe it works everywhere
16:10:07	PaulJam	interesting. i didn't know that
16:10:08	Llorean	Except backdrops, since special colors don't apply for them at all
16:10:54	Llorean	I suppose I might be wrong, it's a quick test. ;)
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16:14:19	PaulJam	it works (even though not for the backdrop as you already pointed out).
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16:31:11	kugel	is it due to my custom build, or does the spacing option in the pf hardly anything?
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16:34:25	jott	kugel: it does only scale the "empty slide" for now..
16:34:45	kugel	What do you mean with scale?
16:34:56	jott	arg sorry read scale not space :)
16:35:16	jott	no the spacing influences the space between the albums on the left and the right
16:36:07	jott	so settings this to 0 would make the stacks on the sides appear to be one single cover :)
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16:38:22	kugel	I've set it to 0, and to 100
16:38:25	kugel	no difference
16:38:38	kugel	tried it with centermargin 0,-50 and 50
16:38:40	jott	could you post a screendump?
16:38:57	kugel	note that I'm using a custom build
16:39:16	jott	well as long as you did not patch pf it should not matter i suppose..
16:40:06	kugel	I patched it, in 1 line (bmp_read_file) to make it work with bmp_reisize. However I doubt that it affects the spacing settings
16:40:23	kugel	if you wait a few min, I'm gonna try a current build
16:40:23	jott	no, i don't think so ;)
16:42:21		Quit phr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:44:23	kugel	same issue with a current build
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16:46:14	jott	how big are the covers used and your screen?
16:47:07	kugel	100x100
16:47:31	kugel	screen is 176x220
16:47:39	kugel	(e200)
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16:51:40	kugel	http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/dump 071212-164438.bmp
16:52:20	kugel	http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/dump%20071212-164438.bmp
16:52:41	kugel	http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/dump%071212-164827.bmp <−− first one, just to be clickable
16:52:42		Part LinusN
16:52:56	kugel	no wait
16:53:21	kugel	http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/dump%071212-164438.bmp
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16:53:41	kugel	wtf
16:53:50	kugel	the file name on my server is starting with 07
16:53:59	kugel	but you have to have 2007 instead
16:54:03	kugel	Oo
16:54:28	DefineByte	will anyone commit FS #8309 for me?
16:54:40	kugel	http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/dump%20071212-164438.bmp
16:55:08	kugel	http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/dump%20071212-164827.bmp
16:55:11	kugel	finally
16:55:30	kugel	jott: the first one is with 0 spacing, the second with 100
16:55:41	jott	well you only have one cover to the left and to the right visible :)
16:55:53	kugel	sure
16:55:56	jott	hence the parameter has no visual effect
16:56:15	kugel	so waht's spacing doing?
16:56:16	jott	as it defines the space of multiple covers to the left&right
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16:56:35	kugel	I thought it's the space between the center cover and the two next it it
16:56:45	jott	no thats center margin..
16:57:07	kugel	ah
16:57:09	jott	it probably needs better titles..
16:57:15	kugel	I think I got it
16:57:22	kugel	quite confusing though
16:57:31	kugel	definetely
16:57:39	jott	a bit.. yes but hard to explain i guess ;)
16:57:51	kugel	true
16:57:52	jott	if you have ideas for better description you are welcome ;)
16:58:21	kugel	hmm
16:58:31	kugel	maybe, since the one is center margin
16:58:42	kugel	the spacing could be named to other margin or something :)
16:59:02	jott	hehe the "Other margin or something" setting ;>
16:59:09	kugel	^^
16:59:55	kugel	margin between non-active covers
17:00
17:00:19	kugel	that fits imo, but it's a bit too long, isn't it?
17:00:25	jott	yeah rather long..
17:00:50	jott	you see it's not that easy to find a catchy phrase :)
17:01:06	kugel	yea, I see
17:01:32	kugel	active margin, and non-active margin maybe?
17:02:22	kugel	or center, non-center
17:02:25		Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
17:02:27	jott	hm maybe.. though the other setting is indeed more of a spacing than a margin ;)
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17:03:06	kugel	true, but most users won't discover the difference between the terminology in this case
17:03:12	kugel	i guess
17:03:22	jott	and those who do will complain :P
17:03:25		Quit homielowe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:03:31	DefineByte	spacing :)
17:03:52	kugel	then change margin to spacing?
17:03:53	kugel	:D
17:04:11	kugel	indeed not easy, but just spacing is worse imo
17:04:34	jott	yeah i agree.. it's a bit misleading if you don't know what it's supposed to do..
17:04:55		Quit J3TC- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:05:06	jott	well anyway i'm off for a bit.. maybe you have a brilliant idea usability wise ;)
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17:05:42	jott	(maybe interactive settings so it is rendered while changing values?! ;-)
17:06:10	kugel	the menu must be transperant for that, doesn't it?
17:06:39		Quit J3TC- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:06:41	Crash91	theres a problem for me with pictureflow...i just wanna check if its documented
17:07:04	DefineByte	Someone have a heart and commit FS #8309 for me. >.< It only changes folder/folders to directory/directories in the manual
17:07:22		Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@wlrsvd-251.njit.edu)
17:07:35	Crash91	if an album doesnt have an album cover, it displays the AA of the previous one
17:08:20	DefineByte	does rockbox have a default 'no cover' cover?
17:08:33	kugel	it does
17:08:40	DefineByte	good good :)
17:10:56	GodEater_	it does ?
17:12:30	kugel	there's a default cover
17:12:35	GodEater_	where ?
17:12:43	kugel	it's anywhere
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17:12:54	GodEater_	it has to be stored somewhere
17:12:58	kugel	it gets shown when there's no cover found for an album
17:13:01	GodEater_	RB can't summon it from thin air
17:13:18	GodEater_	that surely depends on the theme
17:13:30	GodEater_	the new "default" theme shows no cover at all if there's no AA for example
17:13:54	kugel	GodEater_: sure it's stored somewhere. I meant that there's no specific interaction needed to get it shown
17:14:04	GodEater_	so again, where is it ?
17:14:10	Crash91	kugel: what does it look like? ive never seen it?
17:14:31	kugel	GodEater_: In the pictureflow.rock? Dunno
17:14:40	GodEater_	so it's not in rockbox - it's in a plugin
17:14:59	kugel	wow
17:15:02	kugel	mr. picky
17:15:03	GodEater_	which also implies it can't be used in a WPS...
17:15:12	Crash91	aha, pictureflow has the default cover, we are talking about WPS
17:15:32	Crash91	there is no default cover for that, it just leaves it blank
17:15:33	GodEater_	also Crash91 just said it didn't do that in pictureflow
17:15:33	kugel	you should blame DefineByte for saying rockbox instead of me
17:15:56	Crash91	GodEater_:sorry, i was talking about WPS, it does have a "?" thing
17:15:57	GodEater_	er - he asked "Does Rockbox have a default "no cover"
17:16:01	GodEater_	and you said "it does"
17:16:03	GodEater_	how is that his fault ?
17:16:05	kugel	Crash91: you were talking about pictureflow
17:16:17	Crash91	no i wasnt
17:16:46	Crash91	i thought that you were talking about some mysterious rockbox-default thing that was shown in WPS when AA isnt present
17:16:50	kugel	I thought, since you said: "theres a problem for me with pictureflow...i just wanna check if its documented" before you asked that question
17:17:14	DefineByte	pictureflow_emptyslide.#x#x16.bmp I guess would be it
17:17:53	DefineByte	there should just be a standard one, which can be overridden by a theme. pictureflow could use that too
17:18:16	Crash91	=/ that isnt ideal
17:18:24	DefineByte	why is that?
17:18:37	Crash91	firstly, what if the theme uses 176176 AA, pictureflow needs only a 100100
17:18:47	Crash91	and there is no scaling, so therefore it wouldnt work..
17:18:49		Quit Siku (Nick collision from services.)
17:18:57	DefineByte	then you get the default 100x100 aa
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17:19:33	Crash91	=/ well it isnt really that crucial, personally i dont care at all about that
17:19:46	DefineByte	it would be up to theme authors to provide aa compatible with pictureflow
17:19:57	Crash91	yeah
17:20:14	GodEater_	eh ?
17:20:17	GodEater_	how would they do that ?
17:20:23	GodEater_	they're supposed to know what music you own ?
17:20:39	krazykit	DefineByte, no, it would be up to the user to provide pictureflow-compatible aa. you can have multiple sizes.
17:20:59	Crash91	say the location for the "unknown" cover is /.rockbox/wps/themename/unknowncover.bmp
17:21:17	DefineByte	huh? i'm only talking about the default 'no cover found' image
17:21:33	Crash91	the ? with a greyscale gradient..
17:21:36	GodEater_	there should be only one of those
17:21:42	GodEater_	it shouldn't have to be in multiple themes
17:21:49	GodEater_	waste of disc space otherwise
17:21:56	DefineByte	i'm not saying it 'has' to be
17:22:13	DefineByte	just if you want to match the look of the theme you could include it
17:22:22	Crash91	GodEater_: isnt "disc" the US version?
17:22:22	GodEater_	I suppose....
17:22:31	GodEater_	don't think so
17:22:56	krazykit	i've always thought of hard drives and floppies as disks and CDs as discs...
17:23:04	DefineByte	same
17:23:36	GodEater_	US is disk
17:23:51	Crash91	=/ i always thought of them as disks, and when i saw linux and mac, i saw disc..
17:23:57	GodEater_	according to the Oxford english dictionary
17:24:02	DefineByte	yeah but everyone uses disk for hdds so i go with the 'flow' :)
17:24:11	Crash91	krazykit: yeah, same here too
17:24:47	*	GodEater_ refuses to bow to pressue from the US on this ;)
17:25:05	GodEater_	pressure too
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17:26:11	GodEater_	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_of_disc
17:26:29	Crash91	lol
17:27:05	GodEater_	apparently I should use disk when talking about magentic media, and disc when speaking of optical media
17:27:09	GodEater_	you live and learn eh /
17:27:37	Crash91	hmmm, that is what ive been doing....but unconciously
17:27:55	Crash91	anyway...we say compact disc and hard disk
17:28:43	krazykit	but now that we've successfully derailed the channel into off-topic land...
17:28:45	Crash91	s/we/i
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17:29:08	ze	just say HD and OD (who wants to specify cd, dvd, hddvd, bluray, etc?)
17:29:20	ze	:p
17:29:59	Crash91	krazykit: off-topic land saves us from the regular monotony of the rockbox channel
17:30:00	DefineByte	there's too many OD formats for that
17:30:08	Crash91	its our "happy place"
17:31:31	GodEater_	escape from the "monotony" to -community
17:31:37	GodEater_	it's what it's there for
17:32:08	DefineByte	i'd go there but i'm using pidgin for the first time and I can't work out how to open another channel xD
17:32:34	GodEater_	/join #rockbox-community doesn't work ?
17:33:02	DefineByte	d'oh
17:33:15	DefineByte	the tabbed interface threw me
17:33:46	Crash91	lol
17:35:56	markun	krazykit: the channel has been pretty off topic today anyway
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17:37:05	Crash91	hahah! off topicness wins!!!!
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17:48:51	kugel	Did anyone try roolku's patch, which makes the pf plugin usable for the database?
17:48:57	kugel	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8295
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18:00
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18:05:46	Llorean	kugel: What stops you from trying it?
18:07:18	Llorean	From the tracker it sounds very much like it's merely the beginning of work on that
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18:21:00	DefineByte	any peeps familiar with the manual here?
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18:24:49	pixelma	a bit
18:27:07	DefineByte	willing to commit a small patch?
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18:34:02	pixelma	what patch?
18:39:25	DefineByte	pixelma: FS #8309
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18:41:43	kugel	Llorean: Nothing, I'm trying it, but I can't get it to work
18:42:12	Llorean	kugel: Well the task says it's the beginnings of integrating it. What are you expecting it to do?
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18:43:15	kugel	I'm expecting that I can either use the pf plugin or the database menu to get to the pictureflow screen, where I can click a cover to play the album
18:43:37	kugel	I have a cover by item in the database, but there is no pictureflow
18:43:55	kugel	I guess, it's because I can't use the plugin while playing music
18:44:26	Llorean	kugel: Read the task, I'm pretty sure he says that it can't actually launch pictureflow yet
18:45:24	kugel	oh yea
18:45:27	pixelma	DefineByte: will look into it. Are you sure "directory" was the preferred one - but consistency is welcome...
18:45:35	kugel	my bad, didn't see that paragraph
18:46:48	DefineByte	that's what we decided on i think :)
18:47:11	DefineByte	i think directory appears more often too
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18:54:01	Crash91	would it be easy to code
18:54:24	Crash91	would it be easy to code a WPS tag which determines the transparency of an image?
18:54:34	preglow	should "PCM Wave" in the recording format menu be just "WAV"? .aif is just AIFF, after all
18:54:40	Crash91	(sorry for the first part, i pressed neter by mistake =/)
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19:37:24	webguest92	hi guys, need a bit of assistance clearing rockbox off my ipod properly
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19:39:19	webguest92	i just uninstalled it, but when i turn off my ipod and go to turn in back on again, it clearly hasn't shut down properly, its more like a hibernation and will probably drain my battery if i leave it
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19:40:05	webguest92	could someone possibly give me a hand making sure i've done everything properly?
19:40:42	Lear	Sounds like normal behavior, from what I understand (don't have any ipod myself)...
19:41:08	webguest92	really? cos when i turn it on again theres no apple boot screen
19:41:19	Llorean	Rockbox doesn't have a hibernation.
19:41:23	Llorean	Why do you think it's not shutting down?
19:41:33	Crash91	webguest92: ipod never shut down, i thought every ipod user knew that
19:41:47	webguest92	because my ipod starts up again very fast, much faster than it used to
19:42:01	Llorean	Crash91: They do with Rockbox...
19:42:16	Crash91	they hibernate, and unlike rockbox, do not shut down, the only advantage is that it doesnt need to boot, and can load quicker
19:42:26	Crash91	Llorean: well i meant apple OF :P
19:42:31	webguest92	yea, but i uninstalled rockbox
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19:42:55	Llorean	webguest92: In the original firmware, there's no "off", just "sleep", yes.
19:42:57	Crash91	yeah and? it doesnt shutdown...its not meat to with apple software
19:43:11		Quit lee-qid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:43:13	Crash91	it "hibernates"
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19:43:36	webguest92	ok... just seems to be behaving very differently than it used to, i.e. before i installed rockbox
19:43:56	amiconn	The apple firmware will eventually shut down after a day or so... not sure at all because I never used the OF
19:44:14	webguest92	it used to require removing hold, then pressing a button to boot
19:44:49	Crash91	webguest92: are you sure its not some kind of new firmware "feature"?
19:45:45	webguest92	well, maybe, but its not one i used to experience under apple firmware, which leads me to believe the rockbox firmware wasn't completely removed
19:46:05	webguest92	although i can't find the .rockbox folder when i boot to disk mode, which leads me to believe it was removed
19:46:23	Crash91	nope, that is perfectly normal ipod behaviour...how long did you use your ipod before rockboxing it?
19:46:24	Domonoky	webguest92: its completly removed, trust us... ! :-)
19:46:38	webguest92	about 6 months
19:46:45	webguest92	its a 5.5g 30gb
19:46:58	webguest92	just thought i'd check before i come to use it and its drained :)
19:47:26	Crash91	:) well be careful....a girl in my class "borrowed"my friends ipod connector...and never gave it back
19:47:41	Crash91	so in effect stole it, lol
19:47:43	Domonoky	webguest92: thats really the normal Apple os behavior... and it will drain the battery slowly.. :-)
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19:48:17	webguest92	ok, so long as you're sure
19:48:46	webguest92	one other thing, when i do a reboot (select + menu) it attempts to load rockbox still and tells me to boot to disk mode
19:48:57	Llorean	Then you didn't remove the bootloader
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19:49:32	webguest92	oh ok, thought when i did "uninstall rockbox" it did everything
19:50:17	Domonoky	this sounds like rbutil... there is a seperate button to remove the bootloader..
19:50:28	webguest92	ok ty, will give that a go
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19:52:01	webguest92	one of the main reasons i installed rockbox was becuase of pictureflow
19:52:14	webguest92	but it wouldn't load
19:52:57	GodEater	good god
19:53:08	GodEater	you're uninstalling because a mere days old features isn't stable yet ?
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19:53:33	Domonoky	hehe, i think pictureflow will be a thing like our doom plugin.. :-)
19:53:57	Crash91	lol
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19:54:09	webguest92	i know coverflow is just a gimmick, but its a feature of itunes, and one of new gen ipods i like
19:54:35	Crash91	i had a friend who uninstalled RB 'cause he didnt like the look of "apple disk mode" and it sucked....and hes jealous of my sansa with coverflow now
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19:54:42	Crash91	and said*
19:55:08	Crash91	webguest92: wasnt it made available to the ipods in a FW update?
19:55:13	Crash91	5.5gens i mean
19:55:15	webguest92	nope
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19:55:36	Crash91	why did you uninstall RB btw?
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19:55:47	webguest92	similarly with search for 5.5g, i don't believe that was made available for 5g
19:56:02	Crash91	search?
19:56:11	krazykit	this is offtopic, you two.
19:56:14	webguest92	5.5g ipods have a search feature
19:56:18	Crash91	to - community!
19:56:32	Crash91	ah, webguests cant join it....the client restricts
19:56:44		Quit dandin1 ()
19:56:44	Crash91	webguest92: and how would one type the word in?
19:56:45	webguest92	and 60% brighter screen, i think they were tjhe only differences
19:57:02	webguest92	it brings up a keypad and u select letters with the clickwheel
19:57:04	Domonoky	webguest92 unistalled rockbox, so he is now offtopic :-)
19:57:10	webguest92	lol :)
19:57:11	Crash91	:)
19:57:34	Crash91	lol...hes offtopic because he is simply living
19:58:19	webguest92	anyway, partway through after it had scanned my ipod's db it wouldnt startup, was concerned i'd bricked it. after about 5 minutes i got it booted again
19:58:30	webguest92	it was a graduation gift so i decided i'd leave it alone :)
20:00
20:00:00	Crash91	:)
20:00:13	webguest92	anyway cheers for your help guys
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20:33:14	decatur	hi there, I've just registered to the wiki to submit something totally new
20:33:33	desowin	what's your name?
20:33:41	decatur	ah, KaiHelbig
20:34:02	decatur	it will be an iconset for gray scale players
20:34:17	Domonoky	decatur: sounds nice :-)
20:35:02	decatur	i hope it will be nice
20:35:13	desowin	done
20:35:23	decatur	ok, so now i can submit it?
20:35:50	desowin	by done I mean, you have edit access to wiki
20:36:00	decatur	ok, thanks
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21:02:31	decatur	editing the wiki was quite confusing, but now it's done
21:02:52	decatur	the first usable iconset for grayscale players
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21:03:44	Domonoky	decatur: looks nice... i will try it on my iriver :-)
21:04:24	decatur	would be nice if other people share my taste ;-)
21:06:07	Domonoky	the icons are nice... but they are little bit to big for my taste of font size :-)
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21:07:05	decatur	hm, might be ... but i wanted it to fit to the theme i use
21:07:37		Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
21:07:42	decatur	and i could use the colored ones in that size
21:08:17	decatur	rescaling them would be quite difficult
21:08:50	Domonoky	sure.. no problem.. at least we have now a nice grayscale iconset .-)
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21:09:50	decatur	thats true ...
21:10:12	decatur	but if there should be a great interest in smaller icons, i could try to make some ...
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21:20:58	decatur	btw, is there some way to contact other registered members in the wiki?
21:22:12	decatur	i wanted to ask christophreiter whether i could reuse his icons for grayscale
21:22:29	scorche\|w	you can go to their member page and see fi they list an email address
21:22:44	decatur	and if there is none?
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21:36:44	bjorn`	Good evening folks
21:37:46	bjorn`	If I may ask, what's the status on the rockbox firmware port for the Zen Vision:M?
21:38:39	scorche\|w	the latest information should be routed to the forum thread under the "new ports" forum
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21:57:51	pixelma	urgh, just had a weird effect on my Ondio. I edited a file with the text editor while playing music, suddenly all characters turned into cryptic and the Ondio froze - could only hard power it off. I think (but didn't pay too much attention) that it was during a track change and I have "follow playlist" on...
21:58:46	pixelma	should probably try if it's reproducible
22:00
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22:03:09	pixelma	doesn't seem to be :\
22:05:24	*	preglow tried an ipod touch today
22:05:27	preglow	boy, are those bastards pretty
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22:05:51	preglow	i love the display
22:06:10	preglow	not overly fond of touch controls, but i guess you get used to it
22:09:03	scorche\|w	first coverflow, now an itouch....we may be losing him ;)
22:09:58	preglow	haha
22:10:08	preglow	when you see my coding touch based guis, then you can say you've lost me
22:11:22	scorche\|w	i said losING...not lost yet =P
22:11:51	scorche\|w	actually...isnt JdGordon coding touch based guis? ;)
22:12:21	preglow	yeah, he is, but he always did have tendencies toward the darker aspects of programming :P
22:13:35	scorche\|w	even now, he is too busy at microsoft to quip back!
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22:13:47	preglow	at microsoft? :>
22:13:54	scorche\|w	heh...you didnt know?
22:14:01	scorche\|w	internship
22:14:16	preglow	what in the fuck
22:14:18	preglow	well
22:14:21	preglow	make him get us zune info :>
22:14:47	scorche\|w	already working on it, but he said the repositories are pretty locked down!
22:15:22	preglow	for some reason i'm less than surprised
22:16:49	preglow	i don't think you've got access to much but what you're working on
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23:03:06	fraaay	halli hallo
23:03:38	fraaay	jemand da, der mir vllt kurz helfen kann? / anyone here to help me out real quick ? ;)
23:03:59	Bagder	if you ask your question (in English) we can try
23:04:26	fraaay	ok, i installed rockbox on my sansa c250 - works great
23:04:41	fraaay	but cant i set the usb mode somewhere ? i just want it to connect as a storage device
23:05:18	Bagder	rockbox has no usb support yet on this device
23:05:42	fraaay	ah, ok - how can i start original firmware ?
23:06:11	Bagder	doesn't the manual say?
23:06:25	fraaay	i havnt found anything
23:06:30	fraaay	..in the manual
23:07:54	PaulJam	http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansac200/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-290003.1.3
23:08:28	fraaay	oh, kinda missed that - im sorry for bothering you guys - thx a lot!!
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23:11:29	smartmind	hello
23:11:58	smartmind	do you know whether the albumart resize patch already is implemented in the current build?
23:12:42	petur	I think not
23:12:53	smartmind	thought so
23:13:03	smartmind	but album art is implemented?
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23:13:08	stripwax	yes
23:13:37	smartmind	because in the patch history of the album art patch (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/3045) theres written something about a resizing patch
23:13:48	stripwax	smartmind - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt
23:14:19	stripwax	from that page - "it is planned but no time estimate is available"
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23:18:26	smartmind	ok so ill have to add it on my own :(
23:18:29	Bagder	haha, nokia retracts their statement seen in Swedish ads: "plays all audio formats" ....
23:19:01	Zagor	Bagder: haha, I wondered how they thought they'd get away with it
23:19:11	Bagder	yeah, they claim it was a mistake
23:19:15	Bagder	it should say "almost all"
23:19:26	Bagder	and that too is not really true
23:19:30	Zagor	mistake, yeah right
23:19:35	Bagder	"MP3, MP4, AAC, eAAc+ and WMA"
23:19:37	Zagor	"almost" is such good marketing
23:19:46	Bagder	does that look like almost all you can think of+
23:19:47	Bagder	?
23:20:00	smartmind	uhm
23:20:02	smartmind	of course ;)
23:20:13	jott	"plays all audio formats we paid for" ;)
23:20:14	smartmind	theres nothing else then mp3 and wma ;)
23:20:16		Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:20:50	Bagder	"it doesn't seem any customer has bought the phone believing it actually can play all formats" they say...
23:22:28		Join Soaa [0] (n=chatzill@dsl-150-200.aei.ca)
23:22:39	Soaa	Hello everyone.
23:22:56	preglow	Bagder: oy, what charset are commit messages supposed to be in? :>
23:23:13	Bagder	us ascii ;-P
23:23:21	preglow	haha
23:23:25	mroc	Hello. I'm attempting to install Rockbox manually on my iPod Video. I downloaded and extracted the current build and it created a folder ".rockbox" which I put in the root folder of the iPod. I followed the instructions in the manual for installing the fonts and after extracting that, I get a second ".rockbox" folder. Am I supposed to have ".rockbox" and ".rockbox (2)" in the root of the drive? Thanks in advance for your help.
23:23:28	preglow	it did weird shit to my �
23:23:46	Bagder	actually, I don't think we have decided at any time, we just... play by ear
23:23:54	Soaa	mroc, move whatever is in .rockbox (2) into .rockbox.
23:23:57	preglow	thoms advice: utf8 for everything
23:24:07	Bagder	I figure utf8 is the most sensible
23:24:09	preglow	then play by ear on that
23:24:18	preglow	i really just do utf8 for absolutely everything these days
23:24:23	preglow	so i perhaps one day can not bother about it
23:24:24	mroc	Soaa: Thanks.
23:24:27	*	preglow hates charsets
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23:24:45	Soaa	No prob.
23:24:58	Soaa	Hey, anyone checked out my patch for PictureFlow?
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23:26:21	Soaa	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8307
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23:27:47	jott	Soaa: yes looked into it.. it might be the best way to fade in&out otherwise it will always look choppy..
23:28:22	Soaa	Not only that, it just seems more intuitive to me.
23:28:33	Soaa	Hope it gets comitted.
23:28:39	Soaa	committed*
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23:29:18	Soaa	I hope my patch isn't too messy? It's my first time coding something in C that actually works.
23:29:45		Quit smartmind ()
23:30:54	jott	Soaa: well could be optimized a bit, but i think i'll do something similar...
23:31:58	Soaa	Cool. How about the bug I filed? That one's nasty.
23:32:40	Soaa	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8306
23:32:41	jott	yes not really sure how to reproduce it..
23:33:11	Soaa	Quite easy, just press the opposite direction while it's animating
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23:40:07	manlight435	would it be possible to emulate nes on rockbox?
23:40:18	Soaa	There has been talk for something like that.
23:40:26		Quit fraaay ()
23:40:40	Soaa	Not sure about progress though. Last time I checked, they were looking for an emulator that's GPL'd.
23:40:45	manlight435	what are the proccessing powers of most mp3 players
23:41:08	scorche\|w	manlight435: they can vary quite a bit...
23:41:29	manlight435	what do ipods have?
23:41:44	manlight435	and sansa e200?
23:42:17	scorche\|w	we run both cores at 80MHz, although we dont make full use of both cores yet
23:42:29		Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:42:33	scorche\|w	but an NES emulator is certainly doable if someone puts the effort into it
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23:43:39	manlight435	does the GBC have a faster processer than the nes/
23:43:52	krazykit	manlight435, why don't you search google to find out?
23:44:22	manlight435	already here
23:44:25	manlight435	ok
23:45:32	Soap	google is a machine - these are people - with other things to do besides google's work.
23:46:35	manlight435	it says it has about the same power as an snes
23:46:51	manlight435	so it is definetly doable
23:47:08	scorche\|w	didnt i just say that?
23:47:19	manlight435	yea
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23:52:24	Ctcp	Time from Zagor!n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor
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23:52:39	***	Server message 505: 'logbot_ :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
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