| 00:01:48 | | Join Cannoli [0] (i=Prisoner@dsl-207-112-47-119.tor.primus.ca) |
| 00:03:48 | | Quit Cannoli (Client Quit) |
| 00:04:20 | saratoga | are we trying to keep libfadd synced with the official source? |
| 00:04:27 | saratoga | because the code right now is just bizzare |
| 00:04:34 | | Part peppo ("part") |
| 00:05:05 | saratoga | like the way it checks for non power of 2 block sizes in the FFT even though we only have tables for 128 and 1024 sample blocks |
| 00:05:44 | saratoga | oh never mind that #define out of the compiled code |
| 00:06:09 | linuxstb | I think preglow was working on syncing it. |
| 00:07:36 | | Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:07:45 | saratoga | do they make text editors that can be configured to shade out code inside certain #define blocks? |
| 00:09:05 | krazykit | you could probably modify the hilighting scripts of your favorite editor to do that |
| 00:11:29 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean) |
| 00:13:43 | amiconn | Yay, now I have an optimised *and* working version of my SH1 grey phase blit :) |
| 00:14:53 | linuxstb | How much IRAM is left? |
| 00:15:20 | amiconn | 80 bytes on recorders |
| 00:15:33 | amiconn | (with reducing MAXTHREADS to 10) |
| 00:15:49 | linuxstb | How much does a thread take? |
| 00:18:03 | amiconn | 80 bytes of IRAM taken per thread |
| 00:18:17 | amiconn | Right now it's a perfect fit when not reducing MAXTTHREADS |
| 00:18:44 | amiconn | But compiler differences could make it fail *very* easily |
| 00:18:53 | | Quit WeaponX (Connection timed out) |
| 00:19:34 | | Quit Willaken ("Leaving") |
| 00:20:32 | amiconn | My new function needs 204 bytes of IRAM. I also saved 4 bytes in another function, leaving a net iram usage increase of 120 bytes (with reduced MAXTHREADS) |
| 00:20:53 | amiconn | I tend to think that the thread management structures don't need to be in iram on SH1 |
| 00:21:11 | amiconn | If we take them out, that would save 900 (or 820) bytes of iram |
| 00:22:43 | | Join eigma [0] (i=eigma@216.48.162.210) |
| 00:25:44 | | Join lassesdatamaskin [0] (n=sindre@165.80-202-81.nextgentel.com) |
| 00:25:50 | | Quit thewtex (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:27:23 | | Quit ctaylorr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:28:28 | | Quit soap (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:29:07 | | Quit Robin0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:29:25 | | Join picard_pwns_kirk [0] (n=ppk@unaffiliated/ppklaptop/x-00001) |
| 00:29:50 | picard_pwns_kirk | what are some feasible button mappings for the RockBoy plugin? |
| 00:29:55 | picard_pwns_kirk | (on the ipod nano) |
| 00:31:26 | saratoga | is libfaad short on IRAM? |
| 00:32:02 | picard_pwns_kirk | umm... |
| 00:32:04 | saratoga | looking at the code i see it allocates a 4KB buffer in IRAM that could easily be shared with another buffer |
| 00:32:12 | | Part picard_pwns_kirk ("In Soviet Russia, channel leave YOU!!") |
| 00:34:25 | amiconn | linuxstb: I found another place where we can save some iram |
| 00:35:02 | amiconn | lcd_update() and lcd_update_rect() are in iram right now. Taking them out there lowers performance by only ~0.6% |
| 00:35:20 | amiconn | ...but it saves 288 bytes of iram |
| 00:36:03 | amiconn | The crucial point for performance is that lcd_write_data() is in iram (and it still is, of course) |
| 00:37:41 | | Join ptw419 [0] (i=ptw419@cpe-72-179-164-213.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 00:38:00 | linuxstb | saratoga: I've no idea, but it's always good to reduce IRAM usage if you can - so feel free to commit a fix ;) |
| 00:38:56 | * | amiconn thinks that those performance test plugins were a really good idea |
| 00:40:13 | linuxstb | amiconn: I've another LCD question - is it possible on greyscale targets to implement an lcd_clear_viewport() function with lcd_fillrect? I confess to not fully understanding the drawmodes... |
| 00:41:11 | amiconn | I don't remember the full details right now, but I think it would be possible |
| 00:41:26 | amiconn | The drawmode would need to be changed temporarily |
| 00:41:53 | linuxstb | Would BG+INVERSEVID be correct? |
| 00:42:13 | amiconn | It depends on what drawmode is currently active |
| 00:43:55 | | Join soap [0] (n=soap@cpe-65-189-128-141.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 00:44:16 | | Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) |
| 00:44:29 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp238-13.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 00:44:48 | linuxstb | Ah yes... |
| 00:45:07 | amiconn | If the current mode does *not* |
| 00:45:22 | amiconn | include INVERSEVID, you'd need BG+INVERSEVID |
| 00:45:40 | amiconn | And if the current mode includes INVERSEVID, you'd need (plain) FG |
| 00:45:49 | csc` | does the flash memory in their respected ipod models have a specific amount of read cycles? |
| 00:47:02 | | Quit |elppa| (Connection timed out) |
| 00:47:18 | linuxstb | amiconn: Thanks - that makes sense. |
| 00:48:22 | | Quit obo ("bye") |
| 00:49:27 | amiconn | Of course you could simplify it by setting: temp_drawmode = (~drawmode & DRMODE_INVERSEVID) | DRMODE_SOLID; |
| 00:50:19 | amiconn | That inverts the INVERSEVID bit and sets the basic mode to SOLID |
| 00:50:31 | | Quit soap () |
| 00:50:51 | | Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:54:01 | | Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:56:42 | | Quit RoC_MasterMind ("Leaving") |
| 00:57:28 | | Join |elppa| [0] (n=kvirc@cpe-66-108-52-135.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:58:01 | | Join webguest82 [0] (n=458c877f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b3469aafc5dfeabb) |
| 00:58:13 | | Quit |elppa| (SendQ exceeded) |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:32 | | Part webguest82 |
| 01:00:45 | | Join midge1 [0] (n=TJ@c-71-205-31-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 01:00:51 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 01:01:30 | | Quit ptw419 () |
| 01:03:44 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:08:27 | | Quit billenium ("Leaving") |
| 01:10:31 | | Join billenium [0] (n=billeniu@c-69-249-243-110.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 01:10:43 | billenium | does rockbox have a text viewer thing? |
| 01:10:50 | Llorean | Yes. |
| 01:10:55 | Llorean | I do believe it's mentioned in the manual |
| 01:11:03 | billenium | ah |
| 01:11:12 | billenium | i see |
| 01:13:18 | markun | billenium: there are some things I would like to improve in the viewer, but it works quite nice already |
| 01:13:44 | stripwax | soap - for the logs - my original firmware lasted somewhere between 21 and 23 hours (missed the actual shutoff). So we can rule out my battery dying. Will determine if remaining main difference between your runtime and mine is vorbis vs mp3 or peakmeters-vs-main menu |
| 01:13:47 | billenium | anything like the one Apples firmware has? |
| 01:14:11 | stripwax | what does the Apple one do? |
| 01:14:34 | billenium | its text reader is straight forward |
| 01:14:42 | billenium | and when you hit next, i believe it goes to the next file |
| 01:15:22 | stripwax | rockbox text reader just views on file at a time |
| 01:15:26 | stripwax | one |
| 01:15:30 | billenium | ah |
| 01:15:32 | billenium | i see |
| 01:15:35 | stripwax | try it |
| 01:16:20 | | Join karashata [0] (n=Kimi@207.61.207.167) |
| 01:17:09 | stripwax | billenium - manual page for text viewer is here: |
| 01:17:11 | stripwax | http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch9.html#x12-1860009.3.7 |
| 01:17:31 | billenium | argh... |
| 01:17:36 | billenium | i have to put rockbox back on |
| 01:17:40 | billenium | i restored my iPod... |
| 01:18:02 | billenium | i would suggest iPL to no one... |
| 01:18:25 | | Quit midgey (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:19:04 | | Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend") |
| 01:20:26 | | Quit Axio (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:20:49 | | Join Axio [0] (n=Axio@alf94-1-81-57-140-233.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 01:22:42 | | Join Anon-E-Moose [0] (n=lol@c-75-67-189-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:23:17 | Anon-E-Moose | Ugh, my iPod's not being recognized by Vista :( |
| 01:23:50 | Anon-E-Moose | Pops up a whole slew of driver notifications and when I've canceled or humoured them, it still doesn't show my iPod as a removable drive |
| 01:24:18 | Anon-E-Moose | And in case it matters, it's a Colour and I have reset it several times now |
| 01:25:03 | * | Anon-E-Moose is frusturated and hungry. |
| 01:25:36 | billenium | Whered you get your name from Anon-E-Moose? |
| 01:25:39 | Anon-E-Moose | FGSFDS. It just showed up :( |
| 01:25:54 | | Join webguest74 [0] (n=50ec14ec@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-6fd93f93cf7a0cca) |
| 01:25:55 | Anon-E-Moose | billenium - one of the *chans |
| 01:25:59 | | Quit salty-horse ("Leaving") |
| 01:26:03 | webguest74 | hi! |
| 01:26:03 | billenium | thought so |
| 01:26:09 | billenium | or you where a recovering alcoholic |
| 01:26:13 | Anon-E-Moose | I have supper on the table, I'm going to smash my iPod if it disappears |
| 01:26:30 | Anon-E-Moose | billenium - Not old enough to be a recovering alchy :P |
| 01:26:36 | billenium | hehe |
| 01:26:39 | Anon-E-Moose | I can be a potential alchy, though :P |
| 01:26:43 | billenium | so you would think.. |
| 01:28:23 | billenium | say i wanted to put a file/video/image in Plugins -> Demos... how would i do that? |
| 01:28:50 | | Quit lassesdatamaskin (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 01:29:57 | webguest74 | hi , I would like to know if i can do something to avoid 'missing base wad' message on my old ipod when i want to run doom through rockbox, please. |
| 01:30:26 | krazykit | webguest74, read the instructions for properly installing doom |
| 01:30:26 | linuxstb | Install the base wad? |
| 01:30:35 | * | billenium giggles at webguest74 |
| 01:30:48 | krazykit | i believe they're on the PluginDoom wiki page |
| 01:33:31 | | Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:34:16 | | Quit phossy ("Ex-Chat") |
| 01:34:32 | webguest74 | i did so but unfortunately it still doesn't want to work well |
| 01:35:13 | krazykit | perhaps you missed a step? try going through and carefully redoing the steps |
| 01:35:21 | webguest74 | yes indeed krazykit |
| 01:35:35 | | Join soap [50] (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap) |
| 01:36:33 | * | csc` giggles at webguest74 |
| 01:37:04 | | Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:37:43 | | Quit Anon-E-Moose ("Thanks, solved my own problem") |
| 01:38:29 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955D8C6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:38:58 | webguest74 | http://www.instructables.com/id/Play-Doom-on-your-iPod-in-5-easy-steps!/ i used this way very carfully |
| 01:40:06 | Llorean | webguest74: Use the official manual. |
| 01:40:07 | webguest74 | sorry my english is not very fluant..:) |
| 01:40:46 | | Join ptw419_ [0] (n=ptw419@cpe-72-179-164-213.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 01:42:25 | csc` | those steps make me wanna cry :( |
| 01:42:30 | | Quit waldo ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 01:42:42 | | Join |elppa| [0] (n=kvirc@cpe-66-108-52-135.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:43:19 | webguest74 | is it possible that my ipod is too old ( even if rockbox works on it? |
| 01:43:30 | csc` | check the wiki |
| 01:44:34 | billenium | webguest74: althought that website is good for making "things"... you cant be the manual. Did you try the manual? |
| 01:44:41 | billenium | beat* |
| 01:44:57 | billenium | http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch9.html#x12-1360009.1.5 |
| 01:45:21 | csc` | im so lame i stuck rockbox's source on my nano to read |
| 01:45:22 | csc` | :( |
| 01:45:45 | billenium | lulz |
| 01:45:46 | billenium | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginDoom |
| 01:47:20 | webguest74 | LIorean and csc thanks i see it is very well writen i am going to read it . thanks forr the advise |
| 01:47:37 | billenium | =( |
| 01:48:53 | | Quit Thundercloud__ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:48:58 | webguest74 | thanks have a good day . gabriel. |
| 01:50:43 | billenium | webguest74: i just put DOOM on my ipod nano o_0 It wasn't too hard. |
| 01:50:57 | | Part linuxstb |
| 01:52:48 | | Join yeahx [0] (n=aarond@75-92-154-47.sea.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 01:54:00 | | Quit webguest74 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 01:55:50 | yeahx | yipee |
| 01:57:38 | | Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 01:57:47 | | Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world") |
| 01:58:54 | | Quit ender` (" On-line, adj. The idea that a human being should always be accessible to a computer.") |
| 02:00 |
| 02:09:29 | | Join fungus [0] (n=byob82@pool-71-161-45-19.clppva.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:16:02 | fungus | Hello- I am having trouble loading bitmaps for plugins. I understand rb->lcd_bitmap_part(my_fb_data ... but I don't understand how the bitmap finds its way into the variable. |
| 02:20:38 | | Part fungus |
| 02:26:11 | | Quit ptw419_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:27:07 | | Part cg |
| 02:39:42 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:40:37 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ppp185-226.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 02:41:20 | | Join perrikwp [0] (n=chatzill@74.167.148.160) |
| 02:49:46 | | Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε") |
| 02:55:38 | | Join tim_ [0] (n=tim@adsl-75-36-98-237.dsl.mdldtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:55:59 | | Nick tim_ is now known as timtip (n=tim@adsl-75-36-98-237.dsl.mdldtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:56:30 | timtip | hello |
| 02:57:28 | timtip | I'm in a bit of trouble i think... - I tried to reload the bootloader, and now my ipod just flashes the apple on and off... can't reboot can't do aynthing... ;( It is a 30 gig iPod Video - anyone have any suggestions? |
| 02:57:53 | csc` | its trying to reboot itself metinks |
| 02:57:56 | csc` | but it cant |
| 02:59:31 | | Join toffe82_ [0] (n=chatzill@adsl-75-23-149-66.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:59:41 | | Nick toffe82_ is now known as toffe82 (n=chatzill@adsl-75-23-149-66.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:31 | * | JdGordon doesnt remember the e200 being such a bitch to get open :( |
| 03:01:05 | timtip | yeah, but how do i get it to quit? I've tried everything i know... like its in a boot loop |
| 03:01:24 | JdGordon | whats news? |
| 03:01:26 | JdGordon | bah |
| 03:01:29 | JdGordon | wrong window |
| 03:02:14 | soap | timtip, Menu+Select to force a hard reboot. You should see it shutdown then flicker back to life. |
| 03:02:34 | timtip | k, did that, and it doesn't change... just keeps doing it. |
| 03:02:35 | soap | timtip, as soon as it flickers back to life press and hold Select+Play to force Apple's Disk mode. |
| 03:03:46 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:04:39 | timtip | k, it is now saying to please wait very low battery... so i'm waiting for it to get back enough to start it... |
| 03:04:54 | soap | wait hours, not minutes. |
| 03:05:13 | soap | go watch Family Guy on TBS or something. |
| 03:05:15 | xnyhps | That might be causing the reboot-loop, not a broken firmware. Had that too yesterday. |
| 03:05:37 | xnyhps | The battery is too empty to continue booting and it fails, and tries again... |
| 03:05:51 | soap | just chill for a few hours, nobody has ever bricked an iPod - it's cool - see ya in three or so hours. |
| 03:05:54 | timtip | well, it was full battery when i started... |
| 03:06:01 | soap | just chill for a few hours, nobody has ever bricked an iPod - it's cool - see ya in three or so hours. |
| 03:06:22 | csc` | soap: what about an ipod TOUCH :P |
| 03:06:32 | timtip | well - ok, but now it's been about 2 hours since this started flickering... |
| 03:06:37 | soap | just chill for a few hours, nobody has ever bricked an iPod - it's cool - see ya in three or so hours. |
| 03:07:54 | timtip | heh, ok - well - it starts flickering again and now looks like the bottom of the screen is getting heated... discoloration type... |
| 03:08:32 | csc` | sounds like a disk problem |
| 03:08:34 | csc` | imho |
| 03:08:38 | soap | Play+Select to force Disk mode. |
| 03:08:48 | soap | press and hold. |
| 03:08:55 | | Quit csc` ("Powering Off") |
| 03:10:33 | timtip | right, it doesn't do anything... like it doesn't register the button pushes |
| 03:10:41 | timtip | just keeps flickering |
| 03:13:09 | | Quit lee-qid (Connection timed out) |
| 03:15:41 | timtip | ok, i got it into diskmode... i'm formatting now... |
| 03:23:46 | | Join EternalRains [0] (n=unknown@c-71-199-228-75.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 03:26:35 | | Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) |
| 03:26:48 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp258-198.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 03:33:41 | | Quit karashata (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC") |
| 03:35:36 | | Quit DerDome (Nick collision from services.) |
| 03:35:39 | | Join DerDom1 [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-241-027.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:35:49 | | Nick DerDom1 is now known as DerDome (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-241-027.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:36:39 | | Join ptw419 [0] (n=ptw419@cpe-72-179-164-213.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 03:37:23 | | Quit EternalRains ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]") |
| 03:43:03 | | Quit xnyhps ("...") |
| 03:43:22 | | Quit Shaid ("I will see you, in the end. And I will laugh at your pain...") |
| 04:00 |
| 04:03:25 | | Join Rob222241 [0] (n=Miranda@p54B17EE6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:08:07 | | Quit |elppa| (Connection timed out) |
| 04:10:28 | | Quit SirFunk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 04:11:05 | | Join realazthat [0] (n=realazth@pool-68-160-211-75.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:15:24 | | Quit spr0k3t (Remote closed the connection) |
| 04:16:22 | | Join spr0k3t [0] (n=spr0k3t@CPE-69-76-171-220.kc.res.rr.com) |
| 04:17:51 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 04:18:54 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 04:21:20 | | Quit gromit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:21:39 | | Join webguest22 [0] (n=42444ee1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-5411f0b02d5a4fd9) |
| 04:25:36 | | Quit perrikwp ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 3.0b3pre/2007123105]") |
| 04:26:41 | webguest22 | How do i call a plugin? (Example: I've added an item to a menu and i want that item to start a plugin) |
| 04:27:10 | | Join SirFunk [0] (n=Sir@cpe-74-71-205-222.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 04:27:24 | | Join gromit` [0] (i=gromit@ras75-5-82-234-244-69.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 04:28:15 | | Quit midge1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:30:21 | | Join psycho_maniac [0] (i=psycho_m@ppp002.hk.centurytel.net) |
| 04:34:17 | | Part realazthat |
| 04:37:55 | | Quit DerDome ("Leaving.") |
| 04:42:57 | | Join midgey [0] (n=TJ@c-71-205-31-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 04:46:31 | | Join Shaid [0] (i=shaid@124-168-114-111.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:47:59 | webguest22 | If i used the plugin_api function "open" to open a .rock file would it initiate the plugin? |
| 04:58:49 | saratoga | i think thats just the c open function |
| 04:58:51 | saratoga | http://c.comsci.us/etymology/include/io/open.html |
| 04:59:16 | | Quit psycho_maniac (" be rigth back...for real this time.") |
| 05:00 |
| 05:01:24 | | Join psycho_maniac [0] (i=psycho_m@ppp002.hk.centurytel.net) |
| 05:03:47 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:04:36 | | Quit midgey (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 05:07:08 | | Join Alonea [0] (n=chatzill@69.92.201.36) |
| 05:10:43 | | Quit webguest22 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 05:11:39 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 05:11:48 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF5373.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:14:49 | | Join ctaylorr [0] (n=ctaylorr@CPE001839ae25b4-CM0011aea4a276.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 05:37:10 | | Quit timtip (Remote closed the connection) |
| 05:40:45 | | Quit eigma () |
| 05:41:06 | | Join eigma [0] (i=eigma@216.48.162.210) |
| 05:41:07 | | Part zicho ("Leaving") |
| 05:52:25 | | Quit courtc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 05:53:25 | | Join jurrie [0] (n=jurrie@adsl-068-209-041-021.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:00 |
| 06:08:05 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 06:08:48 | | Quit eigma () |
| 06:12:06 | | Join midgey [0] (n=TJ@c-71-205-31-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 06:19:42 | | Part yeahx |
| 06:19:48 | ptw419 | is there any function in rb to draw circles, or any types of shapes? |
| 06:19:55 | ptw419 | or even to highlight a selection? |
| 06:22:17 | JdGordon | in a plugin? |
| 06:22:19 | JdGordon | or the core? |
| 06:22:59 | ptw419 | core |
| 06:23:19 | ptw419 | lcd_put_cursor? |
| 06:23:29 | ptw419 | i'm trying to get something to highlight a selection |
| 06:23:36 | JdGordon | selection of what? |
| 06:24:16 | ptw419 | well i'm trying to modify the S bootloader to allow the user to pick which rockbox kernel they want to load |
| 06:24:32 | ptw419 | so i just need something to let the user know which file is chose |
| 06:24:34 | ptw419 | chosen* |
| 06:24:43 | JdGordon | ah righto |
| 06:25:07 | JdGordon | lcd_put_cursor is for charcell i think |
| 06:25:27 | JdGordon | you want to change the style flags for the line when you want to show the selection |
| 06:25:37 | | Quit psycho_maniac (" Logging Off.....") |
| 06:25:42 | JdGordon | have a look at apps/gui/list.c and find where it does the drawing |
| 06:25:46 | ptw419 | ah good idea |
| 06:25:49 | ptw419 | ok thanks |
| 06:31:44 | | Quit Alonea ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]") |
| 06:40:52 | | Quit ctaylorr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 06:59:50 | | Quit bardia ("[BX] Time wasted: 4 days 2 hours 45 minutes 11 seconds 3 milliseconds") |
| 07:00 |
| 07:03:24 | | Join khermans [0] (n=khermans@c-75-67-197-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 07:03:37 | khermans | i finally got that Rockbox article up on LinuxJournal.com |
| 07:03:38 | khermans | http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1005957 |
| 07:03:49 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 07:03:52 | khermans | it is aimed at n00bs... |
| 07:05:15 | krazykit | i noticed an error. rockbox won't destroy your device forever. |
| 07:06:42 | krazykit | and the fact that the script installs an unofficial build... |
| 07:06:50 | JdGordon | oy good... another guide which doesnt tell the user to use the official installer... |
| 07:07:28 | krazykit | not only that, you're only supporting the ipod video, which isn't explicitly stated |
| 07:08:07 | krazykit | you're also using the ipodlinux bootloader? geez, anyone using this won't be able to get any official help at all. |
| 07:11:41 | | Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 07:11:57 | khermans | i tell them about the official installer |
| 07:12:21 | khermans | krazykit, some people want one click install on iPod |
| 07:12:30 | krazykit | and rbutil will do that. |
| 07:12:39 | khermans | krazykit, your automated installer failed for me |
| 07:12:57 | khermans | krazykit, i had to rebiuild from svn to get it working |
| 07:13:20 | khermans | krazykit, i link to the automated installer and warn them up front |
| 07:13:52 | khermans | i donated $20 to you guys earlier, loved the project, but you have to keep in mind that some people are not too bright |
| 07:14:05 | khermans | the warning is for "broken" in terms of "i have no data" |
| 07:14:16 | khermans | i don't want people to lose their data |
| 07:14:49 | krazykit | you don't, however, warn the user that by using your script they can't get support from Rockbox, nor do you tell them what build they need to use to update |
| 07:14:51 | Llorean | Yes, but you really shouldn't call what you're doing "Installing Rockbox" if it's both an unofficial build and bootloader |
| 07:15:01 | Llorean | That's like handing someone an Ubuntu CD and saying "Here's your Debian install disc" |
| 07:15:35 | khermans | Llorean, i warn them though and say "try the automated installer" |
| 07:16:16 | khermans | Llorean, i would relate it more to handing someone a customized distro |
| 07:16:28 | Llorean | khermans: Yes, but you lie about WHY you do it. |
| 07:16:37 | khermans | Llorean, where do i lie, i can fix it? |
| 07:16:38 | Llorean | Unofficial builds are no easier to install than official build |
| 07:16:51 | Llorean | You could just as easily have installed an official one with your script. |
| 07:16:52 | khermans | Llorean, i told you already, your rbutil is broken |
| 07:16:59 | krazykit | khermans, your little script could easily have used the official rockbox.zip and used ipodpatcher |
| 07:16:59 | Llorean | Yes, but our ipodpatcher isn't |
| 07:17:10 | Llorean | The ipodpatcher tool is actually Rockbox's tool |
| 07:17:17 | Llorean | iPL just bundles it with their bootloader instead of ours |
| 07:17:18 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend") |
| 07:17:25 | khermans | either way, just wanted to get some press out |
| 07:17:34 | Llorean | Yes, but you've done so in a way that's very misleading |
| 07:17:35 | khermans | i like the project |
| 07:17:49 | Llorean | You don't say "This install method means that the Rockbox support team will not help you" as far as I can see |
| 07:18:13 | Llorean | And you've claimed that the reason for doing it your way is to make the install easier, when in fact the steps would be *exactly* the same for an official build using the manual install method in the manual |
| 07:18:26 | khermans | but i didn't know this ahead of time |
| 07:18:33 | Llorean | Then you went on to suggest it could destroy their iPod forever |
| 07:18:40 | khermans | once your automated installer broke, i came here, and no one was around |
| 07:18:51 | Llorean | When in fact Rockbox installation is unable to destroy an iPod, or even corrupt the disk, if performed according to the manual |
| 07:18:59 | Llorean | And is in fact less likely to damage your iPod than an Apple firmware update |
| 07:19:01 | khermans | Llorean, people do dumb things |
| 07:19:16 | Llorean | Yes, but you make it sound like Rockbox could do it. |
| 07:19:17 | khermans | like dd if=/dev/foo of=/dev/sdb2 |
| 07:19:18 | Llorean | Rockbox can't |
| 07:19:28 | Llorean | Using dd could ruin an iPod yes |
| 07:19:31 | Llorean | But that has nothing to do with Rockbox |
| 07:19:31 | khermans | Llorean, ok i give you the power and you rewrite it |
| 07:19:41 | Llorean | And even that can't destroy an iPod forever. |
| 07:19:50 | Llorean | All it can do is require rebuilding the disk contents. |
| 07:19:55 | khermans | Llorean, pm me for info and ill let you rewrite it |
| 07:20:19 | Llorean | I've told you what's wrong with it. |
| 07:20:26 | Llorean | Change the information to be factual. |
| 07:20:43 | Llorean | I'm curious where you got the idea that it could destroy an iPod forever, in fact. |
| 07:21:12 | khermans | Llorean, jeez this scenario is just like end user comes to #rockbox and says "yeah i like rockbox, but you guys dont support WMV playing, this sucks |
| 07:21:37 | | Join countrymonkeyweb [0] (n=4b05639a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-97dc36abb31e1af3) |
| 07:21:44 | khermans | Llorean, dd'ing over the data would likely result in user having to go to Appple |
| 07:21:46 | Llorean | No, it's like an end user going around saying Rockbox does support WMV, and then we have to pick up the pieces when people start posting in our forums asking how to do it. |
| 07:21:51 | Llorean | khermans: Nope |
| 07:22:03 | khermans | Llorean, we are not talking about smart guys dude |
| 07:22:08 | Llorean | khermans: We have a page in our wiki describing how to restore an iPod should you completely erase the partition table |
| 07:22:14 | khermans | Llorean, no one is going to read it |
| 07:22:23 | khermans | Llorean, i read it |
| 07:22:27 | countrymonkeyweb | I had an idea. Why don't we get rbutil's translation function to use rockbox langv1? It would make it simpler for translators. |
| 07:22:45 | Llorean | khermans: So what does "no one's going to read it" have to do with anything? |
| 07:22:50 | khermans | countrymonkeyweb, you guys should rls a new build of rbutil that works |
| 07:22:56 | Llorean | If someone's stupid enough to dd something to their iPod, what does it have to do with Rockbox anyway? |
| 07:23:10 | khermans | Llorean, that people who are not inquisitive will no read it |
| 07:23:18 | Llorean | ipodpatcher works fine |
| 07:23:22 | Llorean | And ipodpatcher is in the bloody manual |
| 07:23:24 | countrymonkeyweb | I am not a rbutil dev. You should talk to bluebrother. I just have an idea. |
| 07:23:33 | khermans | countrymonkeyweb, i rebuilt rbutil to work correclty |
| 07:23:40 | khermans | so the code is fine, just the rls is bad |
| 07:23:56 | Llorean | khermans: Use real words in here |
| 07:23:58 | countrymonkeyweb | I know 0 about this stuff. |
| 07:24:03 | khermans | Llorean, real wordS? |
| 07:24:07 | Llorean | Many of our users are blind or speak other languages, and "rls" is not going to work for them |
| 07:24:14 | khermans | release |
| 07:24:26 | Llorean | Seriously, the channel topic isn't kidding |
| 07:24:42 | scorche | (except aboutt he last part) |
| 07:24:42 | countrymonkeyweb | Is rbutil offtopic? |
| 07:24:49 | Llorean | countrymonkeyweb: No. |
| 07:25:06 | countrymonkeyweb | Alright, could this idea be considered? |
| 07:25:32 | Llorean | countrymonkeyweb: langv1 is the old language system. The one that isn't in use any more. I'm not sure what you think rbutil should be doing with it. |
| 07:26:14 | countrymonkeyweb | I think rbutil should use langv1 instead of the .ts xml-like files that it uses now. |
| 07:26:48 | Llorean | Oh, for the translation of rbutil itself? |
| 07:26:54 | Llorean | I do believe that's the standard Qt translation stuff |
| 07:26:58 | countrymonkeyweb | Yes! :) |
| 07:27:24 | countrymonkeyweb | I would think langv1 would be easier for translators. |
| 07:27:58 | krazykit | countrymonkeyweb, that's a restriction of Qt, not something that you can really get around easily |
| 07:28:15 | Llorean | countrymonkeyweb: I don't think so. |
| 07:28:24 | countrymonkeyweb | Ok. Just thought I would throw that idea out. |
| 07:28:24 | Llorean | countrymonkeyweb: There's already tools for working with Qt translations |
| 07:28:31 | Llorean | I don't see why we should reinvent the wheel |
| 07:28:50 | Llorean | http://doc.trolltech.com/3.1/linguist-manual-3.html |
| 07:29:13 | countrymonkeyweb | I feel that langv1 is easier for translators. |
| 07:29:23 | | Quit axionix_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 07:29:43 | | Join axionix [0] (n=axion@cpe-74-70-239-192.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 07:30:33 | Llorean | countrymonkeyweb: Make a patch to use langv1 then. It needs to be easy enough for programmers to. |
| 07:30:45 | Llorean | Prove that it's easier, and people are more likely to consider it |
| 07:31:27 | | Join korn788 [0] (n=97c985cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-9f6757a5921f4590) |
| 07:31:42 | korn788 | hey whats up i had a question about rockbox |
| 07:31:49 | | Join JdGordon [0] (n=Miranda@usw3662-s-207-244-148-63.dsl.w-link.net) |
| 07:32:25 | khermans | Llorean, i updated the article |
| 07:32:27 | khermans | http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1005957 |
| 07:32:34 | krazykit | korn788, well, the only way to get an answer is to ask, of course |
| 07:33:08 | korn788 | sorry i have an RCA and philps mp3 player and i was going to ask are they supported |
| 07:33:34 | countrymonkeyweb | I'll get around to writing the patch when I am not so busy. |
| 07:33:46 | khermans | i hope that rockbox team is not upset with installer script i threw together to make "no brains" installation easier |
| 07:33:49 | krazykit | korn788, the only supported players are listed on rockbox.org |
| 07:34:01 | khermans | like i said, i would have geared the article toward rbutil had it worked correctly |
| 07:34:19 | Llorean | khermans: I don't see what you changed |
| 07:34:25 | khermans | refresh? |
| 07:34:28 | Llorean | I did refresh |
| 07:34:34 | khermans | second paragraph |
| 07:34:38 | Llorean | It still says the iPod could be destroyed forever |
| 07:34:42 | khermans | no |
| 07:34:51 | krazykit | you changed the link to "automated but buggy" to rbutil? |
| 07:34:53 | Llorean | And I still don't see anything saying "You will receive no official support if you follow my steps" |
| 07:34:58 | | Join Buschel [0] (n=AndreeBu@p54A3F2DF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:35:12 | khermans | i added that too |
| 07:35:29 | khermans | Llorean, maybe LJ does not immediately publish changes |
| 07:35:41 | korn788 | ok thanks for the help i saw this internet show called HAK5 and they talk about rockbox and well i thoght i should try it out |
| 07:35:46 | Llorean | krazykit's comment is quite accurate. |
| 07:35:55 | khermans | krazykit, it was always like that |
| 07:36:00 | Llorean | Really, the manual installation should work for everyone. |
| 07:36:10 | Llorean | RButil is only buggy in that it may not autodetect an iPod. |
| 07:36:19 | khermans | Llorean, that is not true |
| 07:36:26 | khermans | it detected my ipod, although not 80 |
| 07:36:28 | Llorean | khermans: The themes site problem was the site being *down* |
| 07:36:34 | Llorean | It's impossible to distinguish an 80 |
| 07:36:47 | Llorean | Because it's not the disk size we need to distinguish |
| 07:36:49 | khermans | Llorean, yes themese site being down was the issue |
| 07:36:54 | countrymonkeyweb | If you want to try it, may I suggest the simulator. Go to rasher.dk/rockbox and click on win32 simulators. |
| 07:37:01 | Llorean | khermans: That's not an RBUtil issue in any way though |
| 07:37:09 | Llorean | khermans: Your method won't distinguish an 80 properly either |
| 07:37:23 | khermans | Llorean, actually, i got an error even partially hrough installation at the end |
| 07:37:34 | khermans | Llorean, check back here in irc logs, i wrote about it |
| 07:37:35 | Llorean | Well, why didn't you file a bug report on it? |
| 07:37:41 | khermans | Llorean, it is not a bug in svn |
| 07:37:49 | khermans | i verified this |
| 07:37:54 | khermans | so i did no tfiel one |
| 07:37:58 | Llorean | Well, what was the bug? |
| 07:38:07 | khermans | Llorean, let me check my google search history :-) |
| 07:38:23 | Llorean | I mean, so far you've told me "The themes site was down" (not RBUtil) and "It detected my iPod" (which is as good as your script can do) |
| 07:38:45 | Llorean | And there's no good reason for your script to use unofficial builds. You still haven't justified that. |
| 07:39:26 | khermans | extra addons, freedoom, custom themes? |
| 07:39:44 | Llorean | freedoom works with the official build |
| 07:39:49 | Llorean | Same with many custom themes |
| 07:39:54 | khermans | Llorean, and is installed by default? |
| 07:40:01 | Llorean | No |
| 07:40:06 | Llorean | The plugin's there by default |
| 07:40:10 | Llorean | The .wad files never change |
| 07:40:11 | khermans | includes the Ubuntu theme i am using? |
| 07:40:18 | Llorean | So we have them as a separate download for bandwidth reasons |
| 07:40:29 | Llorean | What does your theme being included have to do with it being a custom build? |
| 07:40:35 | Llorean | You could include your theme with a svn build. |
| 07:40:42 | Llorean | As long as it doesn't require a modified binary for use. |
| 07:41:10 | Llorean | And none of that justifies using the iPL bootloader still. |
| 07:41:50 | Llorean | I mean, it just seems like you've gone out of your way to deny them official support |
| 07:43:24 | khermans | Llorean, you keep harping on support |
| 07:43:30 | khermans | Llorean, i went out of my way to make it painless |
| 07:43:39 | khermans | at least initally :-) |
| 07:43:55 | krazykit | and later, it's very painful when they want support. |
| 07:43:59 | Llorean | Yes, but "painless" can still be achieved with the official build |
| 07:44:04 | Llorean | So you can't justify it with painless. |
| 07:44:15 | Llorean | ipodpatcher and unzip are the only two tools needed to install an official build |
| 07:44:49 | Llorean | Your script could just as easily install an official build, with freedoom, as many themes as you wanted as long as they don't require patches, and not deny them the ability to come and ask questions. |
| 07:45:15 | | Quit countrymonkeyweb ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 07:45:47 | Llorean | khermans: Even with your updates, the article still says "This is for ease of installation" which is a lie |
| 07:46:02 | khermans | Llorean, why do you call me a liar? |
| 07:46:06 | Llorean | Because it is. |
| 07:46:07 | khermans | it is for ease of installation |
| 07:46:09 | Llorean | No. |
| 07:46:13 | khermans | Llorean, how not so? |
| 07:46:19 | Llorean | Official Rockbox can be installed as easily as ANY custom build |
| 07:46:23 | krazykit | khermans, what happens when the ipod isn't on /dev/sda or /media/IPOD? |
| 07:46:23 | khermans | you run one script, and it "just works" |
| 07:46:31 | khermans | thats true |
| 07:46:41 | Llorean | So "ease of installation" is not why you chose a custom build. |
| 07:46:49 | Llorean | Because you could've installed the official one just as easily |
| 07:46:59 | khermans | well i could fix the script sure |
| 07:47:08 | khermans | or tell them how to do manual installation |
| 07:47:28 | Llorean | Or you could change the language so that it doesn't suggest that the official build is harder to install than unofficial ones, just because you didn't read all the documentation and didn't know so yourself. |
| 07:47:46 | Llorean | There are several ways you could fix it. |
| 07:47:50 | khermans | Llorean, dude i told you it was borked |
| 07:47:54 | | Quit J3TC- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 07:48:01 | khermans | Llorean, i am looking for error msg now |
| 07:50:04 | Llorean | khermans: I'm also curious what you're going to do when tdtooke stops hosting unofficial builds. |
| 07:50:26 | Llorean | In the next day or two, I'm probably going to be closing 1/3 to 1/2 of the patches used in his unofficial builds. |
| 07:50:54 | Llorean | There's also a very good chance that within a week, almost every single one of those WPSes that requires patches, assuming any of them do, will be incompatible with even the unsupported builds. |
| 07:51:22 | khermans | Llorean, ok i cant find the error in google search, but i posted it here in last few days |
| 07:51:25 | Llorean | Really, in all, that whole script is going to be useful for less than a month. |
| 07:51:28 | khermans | someone was helping me through it |
| 07:51:32 | khermans | and suggested i rebuild form svn |
| 07:51:34 | khermans | which then worked |
| 07:51:36 | Llorean | khermans: What does the error have to do with installing the official build? |
| 07:51:49 | Llorean | khermans: The MANUAL INSTALL doesn't use Rbutil. |
| 07:52:13 | khermans | Llorean, yes yea −− what is the number of required inputs for manual install? |
| 07:52:13 | Llorean | "ipodpatcher&&i&&unzip rockbox.zip -d /media/IPOD" could install Rockbox. |
| 07:52:16 | * | khermans goes to check |
| 07:52:28 | Llorean | khermans: I just told you. |
| 07:53:24 | khermans | Llorean, if rbutil sucks, why not label it beta |
| 07:53:25 | Llorean | As I've said a half dozen times by now, installing unofficial builds is NOT easier. It's the exact same process as the manual install. |
| 07:53:33 | Llorean | khermans: BECAUSE ROCKBOX IS UNRELEASED |
| 07:53:33 | khermans | would have saved me some effort |
| 07:53:39 | Llorean | If you read the manual, it says DRAFT in the PDF |
| 07:53:42 | Llorean | EVERYTHING is Beta |
| 07:54:06 | Llorean | That's why we tell people to use the manual install if the automated one doesn't work... |
| 07:54:11 | khermans | you also have wiki entries on your site which say to install via anothe method |
| 07:54:15 | Llorean | Yes |
| 07:54:17 | Llorean | It's a wiki |
| 07:54:18 | khermans | ipodinstall |
| 07:54:21 | Llorean | Stupid people write stupid things |
| 07:54:26 | khermans | Llorean, my point exactly |
| 07:54:34 | Llorean | That's why we EXPLICITLY tell people to use the manual |
| 07:54:37 | Llorean | Again, and again, and again |
| 07:54:51 | khermans | Llorean, you should be more clean and not offer two confusing versions then |
| 07:54:59 | khermans | s/clean/clear/ |
| 07:55:08 | Llorean | The IpodInstallation page says to use the manual |
| 07:55:15 | khermans | if it is so easy one way, make it the only way |
| 07:55:17 | | Quit HellDragon (Client Quit) |
| 07:55:17 | Llorean | It has since March |
| 07:55:28 | Llorean | khermans: Because RBUtil will be easier when it works reliably |
| 07:55:33 | khermans | Llorean, then you should remove the pevious link to that link |
| 07:55:36 | Llorean | What Link? |
| 07:55:45 | khermans | Llorean, the ipodinstalation link |
| 07:55:48 | Llorean | Where is it? |
| 07:55:52 | Llorean | It's not on the front page |
| 07:55:55 | khermans | let me find it yet again |
| 07:55:59 | khermans | its on one of the pags |
| 07:56:11 | Llorean | It's not on the Wiki or Docs index |
| 07:56:15 | Llorean | So it's buried somewhat deep |
| 07:56:24 | Llorean | And the IpodInstallation page has been blank since March |
| 07:56:46 | | Quit korn788 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 07:57:25 | | Join AK-Windows [0] (i=TROJAN@161-151-58-66.gci.net) |
| 07:57:30 | AK-Windows | hello |
| 07:57:55 | AK-Windows | any possibility of rockbox being ported to iPhone/iPod touch? |
| 07:58:43 | Llorean | If someone who owns one does it, sure. |
| 07:58:58 | | Join HellDragon [0] (i=jd@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
| 07:59:19 | AK-Windows | I own one, where do I start? |
| 07:59:30 | | Quit Buschel () |
| 07:59:33 | Llorean | The NewPorts page in the wiki |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:45 | AK-Windows | thanks |
| 08:02:47 | khermans | Llorean, finally found your bad link |
| 08:02:47 | khermans | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ManualRockboxInstall#iPod |
| 08:03:27 | scorche | khermans: at the top of the page: |
| 08:03:27 | scorche | Note |
| 08:03:27 | scorche | This page is no longer maintained. It is recommended that you follow the installation instructions in the Rockbox Manual. |
| 08:03:40 | khermans | scorche, you should merely delete the page then |
| 08:03:46 | Llorean | khermans: I don't even know who created that page. We can't keep track of every page. |
| 08:04:01 | khermans | Llorean, and as such, you cant keep track of users being misdirected as i was |
| 08:04:05 | Llorean | khermans: You could go and create thirty new installation pages in the middle of the night, and hide links for them all over, and we wouldn't know about it until someone did something stupi.d |
| 08:04:15 | Llorean | khermans: We tell users to read the manual. You didn't even read the whole page. |
| 08:04:17 | | Quit XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 08:04:24 | khermans | i did read it dude |
| 08:04:27 | Llorean | khermans: We can't stop users from being stupid, and not reading. We never will be able to force people to use their eyes. |
| 08:04:34 | Llorean | khermans: You CHOSE to ignore the note? |
| 08:04:35 | khermans | btw, i found my error from your irc logs |
| 08:04:37 | khermans | "rbutil seems to hang on my IPOD" |
| 08:04:51 | khermans | it got to a certain point, and went no further |
| 08:04:56 | khermans | no error mesages |
| 08:04:59 | Llorean | khermans: If you did not see the note, you did not read everything. If you saw the note, and followed the instructions anyway, you chose to be stupid: Not my problem. |
| 08:05:01 | khermans | rebuilding from SVN solved it |
| 08:05:10 | khermans | Llorean, what is this #openbsd ? |
| 08:05:17 | khermans | Llorean, chill bro |
| 08:05:36 | Llorean | I can't stop people from dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/sdb, and I can't stop you from ignoring warnings. |
| 08:05:59 | khermans | Llorean, just trying to be friendly an point out some things −− no need to make me out as an idiot because i didn't know which docs ot follow and didn't read all material created by rockbox |
| 08:06:01 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp4-187.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 08:06:07 | scorche | khermans: well, you said you read the whole thing...if you read the whole thing then why would you ignore " This page is no longer maintained. It is recommended that you follow the installation instructions in the Rockbox Manual."? |
| 08:06:20 | khermans | scorche, i read that |
| 08:06:27 | | Nick AK-Windows is now known as DavidRawson (i=TROJAN@161-151-58-66.gci.net) |
| 08:06:27 | scorche | and ignored it? |
| 08:06:28 | khermans | scorche, i was pointing out the page for your benefit |
| 08:06:30 | Llorean | So, you ignored instructions. This is our problem how? |
| 08:06:37 | khermans | scorche, you didnt follow the conversation we had a few days ago |
| 08:07:21 | * | Llorean thinks he is done talking about this. |
| 08:07:28 | | Nick DavidRawson is now known as AK-Windows (i=TROJAN@161-151-58-66.gci.net) |
| 08:08:02 | khermans | Llorean, i followed this -> http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-100002.3.1 |
| 08:08:20 | khermans | i told you already, that your automated installer is broken |
| 08:08:23 | Llorean | khermans: Do you see 2.3.2? |
| 08:08:33 | Llorean | Do you see the note at the end of the section? |
| 08:08:35 | khermans | as such, i didnt want to recommend this to a large reader base of noobs |
| 08:08:37 | Llorean | End of 2.3.1? |
| 08:08:47 | khermans | i see the next section, yes |
| 08:08:51 | khermans | i saw it then |
| 08:09:00 | Llorean | So, you prefer to instead force them to download a build of Rockbox that will likely become unavailable, install themes that won't work in a couple weeks, and otherwise screw them over? |
| 08:09:52 | khermans | Llorean, if i had known that was true, i obviousl wouldn't do it to spite a reader base of oucrse |
| 08:10:17 | khermans | Llorean, i also didn't think a little publicity would hurt rockbox |
| 08:10:23 | Llorean | Publicity doesn't hurt Rockbox |
| 08:10:37 | khermans | its a cool project |
| 08:10:50 | khermans | step back, take a deep breath, and realize that this is not #openbsd |
| 08:11:04 | khermans | anyways, thx for all your help over the last week |
| 08:11:07 | Llorean | Lying to potential users about the difficulty of the official installation, not giving them fair warning that they won't receive support, and creating an installation process that depends on a third party continuing to host files and otherwise complicating matters though, is bad. |
| 08:11:22 | khermans | Llorean, i gave them the warning? |
| 08:11:25 | khermans | you see it |
| 08:11:29 | Llorean | You did after you were told to, by us. |
| 08:11:29 | khermans | you might want to hit F5 |
| 08:11:35 | khermans | omfg |
| 08:11:40 | Llorean | My point is that you didn't seem to properly research your article, at all |
| 08:11:44 | khermans | oh wait .. om my fucking god |
| 08:11:52 | khermans | want to follow irc chan rules |
| 08:12:01 | khermans | listen, let just drop it |
| 08:12:03 | khermans | its done |
| 08:12:18 | Llorean | Is the article either gone, or accurate now? |
| 08:12:32 | khermans | Llorean, maybe you should read it again |
| 08:12:34 | khermans | and find out |
| 08:12:42 | khermans | your coments are at the bottom, so that fine |
| 08:13:07 | khermans | i cant believe you blow this way out of proportion |
| 08:13:14 | Llorean | It still says you use an unofficial build for ease of installation |
| 08:13:36 | Llorean | There still aren't warnings that it is very out of date, and will likely be incompatible with future themes starting in the next few weeks. |
| 08:13:59 | Llorean | And it still doesn't warn that even if you unzip an official build onto the player, you're still using an unsupported bootloader. |
| 08:14:08 | Llorean | So you HAVE to redo the full installation to get official support one way or another |
| 08:14:09 | krazykit | khermans, i don't think it's being blown out of proportion at all. you're potentially causing a large amount of grief for users by suggesting your unofficial script. |
| 08:14:26 | khermans | Llorean, i fixed that too |
| 08:14:36 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p54B14E16.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:14:40 | Llorean | khermans: "that" being which of my points? |
| 08:15:01 | khermans | krazykit, maybe you should scour the web for bad code and hold them all accountable too |
| 08:15:16 | Llorean | khermans: Are you saying you're not accountable for what you wrote? |
| 08:15:29 | khermans | Llorean, of course anyone is −− what do you mean? |
| 08:15:49 | Llorean | Your response to krazykit. |
| 08:16:10 | AK-Windows | I have the datasheets for ipod touch...all the arm processor specifics and stuff |
| 08:16:33 | krazykit | AK-Windows, the datasheets for the LCD, the DAC, and the rest, too? |
| 08:16:37 | scorche | AK-Windows: for arm processors in genreal, or the actual chips used? |
| 08:16:42 | khermans | Llorean, my point is that i am done talking about it too |
| 08:16:47 | Llorean | khermans: And I still don't see the warnings regarding the fact that your script could break at any time, the build is outdated, and you suggest they ask for help in here without telling them to reinstall the official build first. |
| 08:16:49 | khermans | Llorean, i fixed everything you asked |
| 08:16:53 | AK-Windows | only the cpu |
| 08:17:12 | khermans | Llorean, i encourage them to use the official installers in paragraph 2 |
| 08:17:22 | khermans | "i highly recommmend" |
| 08:17:26 | Llorean | That doesn't address the rest of my concerns though |
| 08:17:35 | khermans | Llorean, what else do you want changed? |
| 08:17:35 | Llorean | You highly recommend non-novice users do it |
| 08:17:42 | Llorean | khermans: And I still don't see the warnings regarding the fact that your script could break at any time, the build is outdated, and you suggest they ask for help in here without telling them to reinstall the official build first. |
| 08:17:54 | khermans | Llorean, your code could break at any time too, and does |
| 08:18:04 | Llorean | Our build will ALWAYS be available |
| 08:18:06 | Llorean | That one will not |
| 08:18:18 | Llorean | It's hosted by a single person, who updates it irregularly when he feels like it. |
| 08:18:32 | | Join S [0] (n=john@dslb-084-060-161-048.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:18:40 | krazykit | khermans, the difference is, if the official rockbox code "breaks", then they can still get support here. not so with your method |
| 08:18:43 | Llorean | If his bandwidth runs out, he will take it down. If he gets bored, he will take it down. If we make changes that break the patches he uses beyond his ability to resync, he will take it down |
| 08:19:17 | khermans | Llorean, when will rockbox be at release quality? |
| 08:19:35 | Llorean | What does that have to do with anything I've said? |
| 08:19:40 | Llorean | That build is buggier than the official one. |
| 08:19:58 | khermans | Llorean, just tell me when it will be out of beta |
| 08:20:17 | khermans | Llorean, im going to yank the article a rewrite one when you have finalized an official build |
| 08:20:28 | Llorean | Version 2.5, the last release, was over 2 years ago |
| 08:20:29 | khermans | one that is not beta |
| 08:20:34 | Llorean | 3.0 is not scheduled at this time |
| 08:20:53 | | Join ol_schoola [0] (n=meatwad@c-67-167-20-91.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 08:22:17 | khermans | Llorean, you dont have a release schedule? |
| 08:22:39 | scorche | khermans: not at this time |
| 08:22:44 | Llorean | It's pretty much impossible to do a normal release schedule with firmware. |
| 08:22:56 | khermans | Llorean, give me an idea so i can check back |
| 08:22:59 | Llorean | You can't schedule research effectively and that's what a lot of this is. |
| 08:23:02 | khermans | talking about years, months |
| 08:23:04 | khermans | ? |
| 08:23:20 | khermans | Llorean, many people can schedule research effectively, and do |
| 08:23:24 | Llorean | People have to experiment, and you can't tell which test is going to be the one that succeeds. A power management issue could be solved tomorrow, or a year from now. |
| 08:23:37 | Llorean | khermans: Oh really? Can you predict when AIDs will be cured? |
| 08:23:42 | Llorean | Can you give me a release date on that |
| 08:23:51 | Llorean | Some things just aren't possible to predict. Chance is involved. |
| 08:24:00 | khermans | Llorean, read the black swan |
| 08:24:03 | | Nick S is now known as conando (n=john@dslb-084-060-161-048.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:24:39 | Llorean | khermans: If I recall, that suggests that overall statistical trends work? |
| 08:25:34 | khermans | Llorean, not really |
| 08:25:52 | khermans | things dont "work" |
| 08:26:09 | khermans | this is OT though |
| 08:26:16 | Llorean | My point is simple, though. |
| 08:26:29 | Llorean | Certain things need to be solved before it'll be release quality in many peoples' eyes for iPods. |
| 08:26:33 | Llorean | One significant one is the power management issue. |
| 08:26:50 | khermans | Llorean, how bad is it? |
| 08:26:53 | Llorean | Which is hard to predict, since there are few people with the appropriate knowledge |
| 08:27:01 | Llorean | Rockbox on iPods gets ~75% of the battery life of the original firmware |
| 08:27:15 | Llorean | Rockbox on the iRiver H100 gets ~110%-120% I believe. |
| 08:27:18 | Llorean | Of its original firmware |
| 08:27:34 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 08:27:40 | Llorean | On the older iPods (1st through 3rd generation) we see equal or better battery life, but there's something we're not quite doing right on the PP5020 based iPods |
| 08:28:07 | | Quit ol_schoola (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 08:28:09 | Llorean | That being said, I think there's a growing push for a release, and expect Rockbox might see one within the year, but probably not for the newer among the supported iPods if it does happen at all |
| 08:28:26 | | Quit toffe82 ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]") |
| 08:28:40 | | Join ol_schoola [0] (n=meatwad@c-67-167-20-91.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 08:28:48 | khermans | Llorean, well i am a developer dude, so i can help if you have any sugestions |
| 08:28:56 | khermans | i have worked for ibm, cisco, emc |
| 08:29:15 | khermans | im a 25/yo dude with some free time and passion |
| 08:29:41 | khermans | sometimes i dumb things down for people, because so many people just dont get it |
| 08:31:05 | Llorean | khermans: Well, for the later iPods, the *most* likely solution is going to require investigating what the original Apple firmware does when interfacing with various hardware, powering it down, etc, that we don't do. This is probably going to require knowledge of both ARM assembly and anything we've already learned about the hardware, which is mostly what the iPL project has documented here and there |
| 08:31:11 | conando | what article are you talking/argueing about? |
| 08:31:12 | khermans | Llorean, do you have any tools like gprof that can pinpoint deficiencies? |
| 08:31:40 | Llorean | It's not a code efficiency issue, so profiling wouldn't do much good (I assume that's what gprof is, from the name) |
| 08:31:54 | conando | yes it is ;) |
| 08:31:55 | Llorean | It's a "we don't necessarily initialize all the hardware exactly right, or turn off everything we can when not in use" |
| 08:32:23 | | Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 08:32:28 | Llorean | I do believe some attempt at profiling support was added into Rockbox, but I don't know if it's been maintained. |
| 08:32:31 | | Join hannesd_ [0] (n=light@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) |
| 08:33:22 | khermans | Llorean, well if you want me to run a debug build of rockbox and report any findings on my 80gb, let me know |
| 08:33:55 | khermans | i am willing to do that and take notes |
| 08:34:07 | Llorean | khermans: Unfortunately that won't help too much. |
| 08:34:55 | Llorean | We've got 80gb iPods in the hands of several developers as it is. And unfortunately I'm not too knowledgeable about all the issues concerned, but I think it's most likely to require some investigation of what Apple actually does. |
| 08:35:07 | Llorean | Since we have no hardware documentation. |
| 08:35:19 | khermans | Llorean, i also do reverse engineering :-) |
| 08:35:21 | Llorean | Or someone convincing NVidia to finally start sharing hardware docs. |
| 08:35:30 | khermans | Llorean, are you savvy with IDA Pro? |
| 08:35:44 | ptw419 | i love ida pro |
| 08:35:45 | Llorean | I'm familiar with it, and yes, it would be a relevant tool. |
| 08:35:53 | Llorean | Since we're talking ARM architecture CPUs here. |
| 08:35:57 | khermans | right |
| 08:36:48 | Llorean | But I've got to go for a while. Things need getting done. |
| 08:40:16 | khermans | ok −− LJ won't let me delete the article because you posted a comment |
| 08:40:41 | khermans | i promise to write a real article when i have found Rockbox is non-beta |
| 08:40:52 | Llorean | Well I think your article could be okay with just one more warning, honestly |
| 08:41:58 | Llorean | Just add in a "While using this build might be a good way to try it out, it's may be gone soon, and will most likely be quite outdated. If you decide you like it and want to try the official version, or if you need to ask for help, reinstall with the official instructions in the manual. Because RBUtil is new, you may wish to try the manual procedure." |
| 08:42:02 | | Join Jakeworld [0] (n=chatzill@h237.231.143.24.cable.snbr.sanbrunocable.com) |
| 08:42:09 | Llorean | ER, "it may be gone soon" |
| 08:42:42 | Llorean | The thing that worries me the most is that the official build is both outdated, buggy, and has at least even odds of either vanishing or being very incompatible by the end of the month (in my mind) |
| 08:42:50 | Llorean | Er, unofficila |
| 08:42:53 | Llorean | I can't type |
| 08:43:06 | * | Llorean has a hard time walking away |
| 08:43:14 | JdGordon | official also :p |
| 08:43:42 | JdGordon | not to the whole sentance obviously though.... |
| 08:44:08 | | Quit ol_schoola () |
| 08:44:59 | | Quit hannesd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 08:45:00 | | Nick hannesd_ is now known as hannesd (n=light@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) |
| 08:46:34 | | Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 08:48:00 | | Join gromit`` [0] (i=gromit@ras75-5-82-234-244-69.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:50:11 | | Quit gromit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:00 |
| 09:03:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 09:04:31 | | Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 09:04:38 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 09:10:24 | | Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 09:15:02 | | Join Rob222241 [0] (n=Miranda@p54B14E16.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:19:10 | | Quit mokkurkalve ("leaving") |
| 09:20:43 | | Join webguest38 [0] (n=c2cbc962@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-72a644197db1f7a5) |
| 09:22:28 | | Quit webguest38 (Client Quit) |
| 09:23:01 | | Join GodEater [0] (n=c2cbc962@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 09:23:14 | conando | Llorean which article were you discussing with khermans? ;) |
| 09:23:32 | krazykit | conando, you could check the log to find out |
| 09:23:44 | conando | oops, silly me :( |
| 09:24:15 | conando | sorry.. had too much to drink yesterday i guess |
| 09:32:36 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 09:34:13 | | Join FOAD [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 09:35:21 | | Join eigma [0] (i=eigma@216.48.162.210) |
| 09:36:22 | eigma | does anyone know if DMA modules are typically behind caches in TI SoCs (ARM926+C5409)? am I going to have to flush any write buffers before kicking off a DMA transfer, and if so, how do I do that with rockbox? |
| 09:39:10 | | Join woodensoul [0] (n=woodenso@72.86.92.80) |
| 09:39:58 | * | amiconn isn't sure he whether understands the question correctly |
| 09:40:02 | woodensoul | Hey if anyone is around, I have a couple requests. I'd like some files deleted from the WPS wiki and I've noticed a bug for a week or so that should be easy to fix. |
| 09:40:25 | eigma | amiconn: how can I clarify? |
| 09:41:00 | woodensoul | When viewing track info and scrolling down to path, the inversed section doesn't cover the [Path] designation |
| 09:41:20 | woodensoul | and after scrolling up the iversed part doesn't cover what it should |
| 09:41:39 | petur | woodensoul: put it in the tracker please (if it isn't there already) |
| 09:41:45 | amiconn | DMA engines are usually independent of cpu caches, so that if the cpu has a data cache, you need to flush the cache if the data going to be transferred was changed by the cpu, and the other way round, if data read by dma is going to be processed by the cpu, invalidate the cache after the dma transfer |
| 09:41:58 | | Join DerDome [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-241-027.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:42:01 | eigma | okay, that's what I was looking for |
| 09:42:20 | AK-Windows | at night,my cat becomes a wire chewing monster |
| 09:42:42 | amiconn | That's common to all cpus with data caches and dma I know of. The other part is what I don't understand, "how do I do that with rockbox" |
| 09:42:55 | woodensoul | petur: I didn't know if that was necessary because the bug existed before and was quickly fixed. |
| 09:43:22 | eigma | in this case, I'm DMA'ing out of SDRAM; I see SDRAM marked as cached in system-dm320.c, but only the framebuffer appears write-buffered - does this mean I don't need to flush the cache out to SDRAM? (I'm transferring from an area outside of framebuffer) |
| 09:43:22 | amiconn | You need to hit the hardware, like drivers do in all operating systems... |
| 09:43:48 | | Quit petur ("gonne") |
| 09:44:01 | eigma | there's a chapter in the ARM TRM that deals with cache control, but I'd rather avoid sifting through 50 pages of cryptic coprocessor commands |
| 09:44:49 | eigma | ah, nope |
| 09:44:59 | eigma | CACHE_ALL implies BUFFERED. darn. |
| 09:45:14 | eigma | I wonder why the framebuffer isn't read-cached... |
| 09:46:21 | | Quit AK-Windows ("Leaving") |
| 09:46:30 | amiconn | Well, I don't know the details of the TI cpus. Usually write buffering means something different than caching, although it's somewhat related |
| 09:48:26 | amiconn | If you have some transfer buffer that would require to flush the cache rather often due to dma usage, it might be better to mark that buffer as uncachable (if that's possible) |
| 09:49:05 | eigma | good point |
| 09:49:27 | eigma | btw, this is the SDRAM audio buffer that the DSP will be DMA'ing out to the McBSP |
| 09:49:52 | | Join Casainho [0] (n=chatzill@bl8-167-78.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 09:50:54 | Zagor | how is the pp arm7 uncached address set up? that's a rather convenient way to handle it. |
| 09:52:17 | eigma | which player has that? |
| 09:52:35 | Zagor | all portalplayers |
| 09:52:51 | amiconn | That's pretty portalplayer specific afaik |
| 09:53:01 | woodensoul | oops I accidentally uploaded my WPS to the wrong wiki page, can anyone here delete it for me? |
| 09:53:05 | Casainho | hello - happy no year to all, good year to RB :-) |
| 09:53:15 | eigma | yeah, system-pp5002.c looks like it's going to PP-specific MMIOs for cache control |
| 09:53:49 | amiconn | Yes. Other arm based socs usually use cp15 for cache control |
| 09:53:57 | eigma | DM320 sure does |
| 09:53:58 | Casainho | anyone can help me and advice on minimum SRAM a hardware player should have for run RB? |
| 09:54:14 | amiconn | PP has no cp15, but some special logic |
| 09:54:31 | eigma | if I choose to let the buffer be cached, looks like mmu-arm.c's "clean_dcache_range" is what I'm looking for |
| 09:54:33 | Casainho | in 2 different situations: player with HDD and player with memory card |
| 09:55:56 | | Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 09:56:16 | Llorean | Casainho: There are HD based players running with 2mb. |
| 09:56:28 | Llorean | MB rather |
| 09:56:39 | Llorean | I think a "reasonable" minimum is probably 16 MB though, for HD, and 2 for Flash. |
| 09:56:46 | eigma | wow, we must really be underusing the m:robe's RAM then :S |
| 09:57:03 | Llorean | eigma: How much does it have? |
| 09:57:07 | eigma | 64 MB :D |
| 09:57:14 | Llorean | Same as the iPod 5G 60/80 then |
| 09:57:20 | Llorean | And Gigabeat S I hear. |
| 09:57:27 | eigma | oh, nice |
| 09:57:32 | Casainho | ok, and is important SRAM for color display? |
| 09:57:58 | Casainho | I want to make a not multimedia player, JUST audio player |
| 09:58:21 | amiconn | Llorean: There are even HDD players which run with 256KB (not rockboxable, although there was an attempt)... |
| 09:58:53 | amiconn | Casainho: SRAM != SDRAM |
| 09:59:16 | eigma | most numbers quoted are SDRAM, right? |
| 09:59:29 | Bagder | sram is usually what we tend to call iram in rockbox |
| 09:59:39 | Casainho | amiconn: eheh - I mean general RAM, I don't really care/know |
| 09:59:49 | Llorean | amiconn: True, I was just speaking as to the Rockboxable ones. |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:31 | Llorean | How large is the audio buffer on an Archos when executing from ROM? |
| 10:01:31 | amiconn | Llorean: The attempt didn't fail because of low ram... btw, the device I am talking about was the neuros |
| 10:01:54 | amiconn | Rockbox can't be executed from rom anymore, except on Ondio SP and Player :\ |
| 10:02:03 | Bagder | the neo ones have something like 256K |
| 10:02:10 | Bagder | and they run an old version of rockbox |
| 10:02:31 | Llorean | But those have a hardware MP3 decoder, which helps. |
| 10:02:33 | amiconn | Umm, then I confused neo and neuros |
| 10:02:33 | Llorean | Right? |
| 10:02:38 | amiconn | yes |
| 10:02:42 | Bagder | Llorean: indeed |
| 10:03:26 | Llorean | Anyway, I think 16MB is a reasonable "minimum", for a software codec target. Less than that and the lossless formats are gonna be spinning like crazy, I think. Same with video. |
| 10:03:39 | amiconn | The iFP7xx only has 1MB ram |
| 10:04:02 | Bagder | Llorean: unless it's flash based, for which I guess 8MB will suffice |
| 10:04:03 | Llorean | Sorry "software codec with a disk" |
| 10:04:46 | Casainho | so, please, for flash players, 8MB? |
| 10:04:51 | Casainho | and for HHD? |
| 10:05:05 | Casainho | for lossless formats!! :-) |
| 10:05:19 | Llorean | You could probably go less than 8MB for Flash, but then you might butt heads with the database and other things |
| 10:05:27 | amiconn | Flash targets only need little ram, unless they should also support stuff which needs to buffer larger amounts of data at once (like viewing images). I'd say 4MB for flash, 32MB for hdd based |
| 10:05:36 | Llorean | 4MB for flash sounds good to me too |
| 10:05:44 | Llorean | The 2MB was before I thought about some of the extra crud I don't use. :) |
| 10:05:49 | Casainho | What do you think about have a company interested on make free/open hardware to run RB? - I remember to read something about that with Neuros.... |
| 10:06:17 | GodEater | except Neuros want to use some hardware that's not that open |
| 10:06:25 | GodEater | we've argued with them about it before |
| 10:06:33 | GodEater | well - Bagder has anyway :) |
| 10:07:21 | Casainho | okok - I will register this 2 diferent values of RAM on TWiki :-) |
| 10:07:50 | Llorean | amiconn: Don't the iAudios get by quite fine with 16? |
| 10:08:02 | * | Llorean used that as his basis for that value |
| 10:11:50 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:11:50 | | Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 10:17:15 | Casainho | anyone can advice a good and cheap color graphic display? |
| 10:18:36 | Casainho | I am looking for prices of SRAM... |
| 10:18:41 | Zagor | Casainho: products like that don't tend to live long. so what is cheap now is obsolete tomorrow... |
| 10:20:48 | Casainho | oh, display looks like and hard thing... processor, ram and DACs are ok, but display is expensive and have that problems :-( |
| 10:21:24 | Casainho | for what shouild I look, SDRAM or DRAM? |
| 10:24:03 | | Quit woodensoul () |
| 10:25:13 | | Join j0tt [0] (n=j@unaffiliated/jott) |
| 10:26:50 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955D295.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:31:08 | Casainho | Is there any ARM MCU that have flash memory internal? |
| 10:31:39 | | Join Jakeworld_ [0] (n=chatzill@h237.231.143.24.cable.snbr.sanbrunocable.com) |
| 10:37:26 | | Quit jott (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:38:08 | Casainho | a MCU with 512kb of flash could be ok for boot RB from a flash memory card? - thinking in a system without flash memory |
| 10:38:17 | | Quit Jakeworld_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]") |
| 10:38:24 | | Join pondlife [50] (n=Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife) |
| 10:38:39 | eigma | Casainho: in general: http://www.st.com/mcu/inchtml-pages-str7.html; if you're asking whether some Rockbox-supported player has a MCU with internal Flash, I don't know. |
| 10:40:09 | Casainho | because there are MCUs with 512kb of flash, would be cheap and simpler not put a flash IC on the hardware, just a connector for a memory card |
| 10:42:52 | Casainho | STR731FV2: 256K flash and 16K RAM |
| 10:45:05 | Casainho | with 256k of flash would be possible to make some loader to run RB from memory card? |
| 10:45:17 | | Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 10:46:45 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 10:49:11 | | Quit Jakeworld (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:54:17 | | Quit XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:55:14 | | Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54964C2E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:59:31 | | Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC") |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:46 | | Join GodEater [0] (n=c2cbc962@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 11:03:19 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 11:03:54 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:09:25 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 11:14:08 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.t-2.net) |
| 11:20:35 | Bagder | Casainho: yes it would |
| 11:21:57 | Zagor | 16K ram might be a little tight though |
| 11:22:04 | Casainho | Zagor: told me about 16kb of internal flash and internal ram |
| 11:22:24 | Casainho | Zagor: so 1kb flash and 32kb ram? |
| 11:22:34 | Casainho | 32kb flash and 32 kb ram? |
| 11:23:09 | Casainho | I am doing righ now a building bloc of the player :-) |
| 11:23:29 | Bagder | 16K what ram? |
| 11:23:48 | Bagder | certainly it would use the first instructions to setup the sdram |
| 11:24:14 | Zagor | ah, right. |
| 11:24:18 | Casainho | internal ram of MCU |
| 11:25:00 | Bagder | I'd say 4K SRAM would work |
| 11:25:37 | | Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:25:59 | Casainho | I would like not use an IC of flash, just a flash memory card - I believe that is possible to boot with internal flash MCU flash and after read the RB code from memory card, right? |
| 11:26:23 | Bagder | yes sure |
| 11:26:30 | Bagder | although slightly inconvenient perhaps |
| 11:26:38 | Bagder | since you can't swap memory cards easily |
| 11:28:38 | Casainho | is important to swap cards? - I am thinking in a MCU with USB... |
| 11:29:15 | Bagder | well, I've heard about people swapping cards with different contents |
| 11:29:28 | Bagder | if its important or not, I figure is up to each user |
| 11:29:31 | Casainho | music files, you mean? |
| 11:29:34 | Bagder | yes |
| 11:30:03 | Bagder | you sit on the bus with 22 memory cards in your pocket, and then usb isn't a very big help... |
| 11:31:02 | Casainho | what do you pretend to say? flash memory is not ok? you prefer HDD memory because of the capacity? |
| 11:31:14 | Bagder | I don't pretend at all |
| 11:31:35 | Bagder | I'm just noting side-effects of what you asked about |
| 11:32:16 | Casainho | so, what the alternative of that 22 memory cards? |
| 11:33:09 | Bagder | I don't think I follow. I was merely trying to give you a scenario in which multiple cards work better than usb |
| 11:33:47 | linuxstb | Casainho: Not having Rockbox installed on the device itself means every memory card you use has to be updated with the latest Rockbox version whenever you upgrade - not fun... |
| 11:34:11 | Casainho | ah, okok :-) I understand now :-) :-) |
| 11:34:26 | Casainho | that's something I didn't think about :-) |
| 11:34:31 | eigma | WOW. "dsp_message.msg = 0xbeef;" and "*&dsp_message.msg = 0xbeef;" do two different things :\ |
| 11:34:33 | linuxstb | Plus the settings are stored as a file on disk - so you would get different settings depending on which card you used... |
| 11:36:03 | Casainho | so the good should be a 4MB IC flash for RB code and a memory card for music? |
| 11:37:19 | | Join advcomp2019_ [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) |
| 11:37:39 | | Quit advcomp2019 (Nick collision from services.) |
| 11:37:43 | | Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) |
| 11:41:19 | Bagder | probably, yes |
| 11:42:49 | Casainho | I understand. However I would like to have a simple schematic, cheap hardware for first version. LCD looks like a big problem :-( |
| 11:44:27 | | Join moos [0] (i=moos@m237.net81-66-159.noos.fr) |
| 11:46:03 | | Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara") |
| 11:46:11 | | Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54964C2E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:52:38 | | Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 11:52:38 | Casainho | I did a schetck of the player, with minimum values: |
| 11:52:40 | Casainho | http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2341/2158138866_182a63176f_o.png |
| 11:54:40 | Bagder | what lcd? |
| 11:54:51 | Bagder | imho, 4MB ram is a bit on the small side if you have a large lcd |
| 11:55:35 | Bagder | possibly it depends on what the nand flash access is like |
| 11:55:45 | Bagder | ie how large audio buffer that is needed |
| 11:55:51 | Casainho | I about LCD, I don't know yet |
| 11:56:23 | Llorean | CF cards can be a little slow, can't they? |
| 11:56:53 | Casainho | so, 8 MB of SDRAM? |
| 11:57:45 | eigma | 2*pi MB |
| 11:58:39 | Bagder | lunch! |
| 11:58:40 | Llorean | Casainho: I think it's more "It's too early to tell" |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:04 | Casainho | Llorean: Okok, I will stick with that 4 MB - later we will see |
| 12:02:21 | Casainho | how do I use an image on TWiki? - I have it on flickr... |
| 12:04:10 | preglow | why so little ram? it's not like it's very expensive |
| 12:04:25 | preglow | i'd use at least 16mb |
| 12:04:39 | | Join faemir [0] (n=faemir@85-211-77-177.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 12:05:12 | Casainho | well, lets put as a minimum values and lets decided that when doing going to shop :-) |
| 12:05:19 | petur | 640K ought to be enough for everybody ;) |
| 12:05:30 | GodEater | hehe |
| 12:05:41 | GodEater | from the "words that will haunt you" book |
| 12:06:16 | | Join qwedsa [0] (n=superman@ip51ccca31.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:08:29 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 12:08:30 | | Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 12:12:32 | | Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 12:13:00 | | Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) |
| 12:23:48 | | Quit qwedsa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 12:25:55 | | Join Mathiasdm [0] (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be) |
| 12:30:21 | | Join lassesdatamaskin [0] (n=sindre@165.80-202-81.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:38:42 | | Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 12:38:42 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 12:39:02 | | Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 12:40:36 | | Quit moos ("bbl") |
| 12:46:46 | | Join Sammienator [0] (n=stbouwer@a200098.upc-a.chello.nl) |
| 12:49:24 | | Quit Sammienator (Client Quit) |
| 12:50:54 | | Join xushi [0] (n=xushi@unaffiliated/xushi) |
| 12:51:52 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 12:58:30 | | Join kretender [0] (n=Kaspar@4-73.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:01:26 | | Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 13:03:47 | GodEater | hey Nico - how's the GBS work coming along ? |
| 13:03:57 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:04:10 | GodEater | has there been any progress on getting interrupts working ? |
| 13:05:02 | Nico_P | ptw419 has got a ROM dump but I don't know what info he got from it |
| 13:05:40 | Nico_P | aliask said interrupts should be easier to setup with his recent changes, but so far I dont think there has been work towards that |
| 13:06:16 | GodEater | well any progress is good :) |
| 13:06:54 | Nico_P | indeed. and JhMikeS got his S and plans to take a look at it after he completes what he's currently working on |
| 13:07:26 | * | Nico_P goes to have lunch |
| 13:08:11 | | Quit eigma () |
| 13:10:19 | | Join webguest10 [0] (n=c29a42fb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-6188dbbd6694dd07) |
| 13:14:07 | Lear | Gah, annoying cygwin "bug": try calling lseek without including unistd.h. This will fail, because you're actually calling lseek64... |
| 13:16:23 | webguest10 | hi! my wiki-name is 'MustyazaVladislav'.. I've just registred and I can't upload my .wps couse I've no acces to the upload page.. What should I do!?!? |
| 13:18:33 | | Join waldo [0] (n=waldo@ip-81-11-214-235.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 13:21:43 | | Quit webguest10 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 13:21:54 | | Quit Axio (Remote closed the connection) |
| 13:22:16 | | Join Axio [0] (n=Axio@alf94-1-81-57-140-233.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:22:18 | pixelma | heh... impatient people |
| 13:22:31 | | Quit lassesdatamaskin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 13:22:45 | | Join aliask [0] (n=chatzill@c58-109-97-210.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 13:23:19 | aliask | I played around with interrupts, and as far as I can see they're not working as they should be. |
| 13:23:54 | | Join webguest10 [0] (n=c29a42fb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-ddd1957792d28702) |
| 13:24:14 | | Quit webguest10 (Client Quit) |
| 13:24:19 | | Join webguest10 [0] (n=c29a42fb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1a56ae127d3a0171) |
| 13:25:24 | aliask | The exception vectors got loaded fine to 0x0, and a bl 0x18 (jump to IRQ vector) gets into the interrupt function, but no bananas on generated IRQ's |
| 13:25:36 | amiconn | Lear: Why would that fail, and why do you think i's a bug? |
| 13:25:39 | aliask | (though I haven't had enough time to really double check all my work) |
| 13:25:45 | amiconn | Afaik cygwin uses 64 bit file i/o by default |
| 13:27:28 | Lear | It fails because lseek64 expects a 64-bit offset, not 32 bit. Thus the whence parameter is wrong, and -1 is returned. |
| 13:28:25 | Lear | Only warning I get with -Wall is that lseek is implicitly declared. |
| 13:29:52 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 13:30:03 | amiconn | Hmm, whence isn't passed if the compiler doesn't know that this lseek needs a 64 bit offset. offset+whence both end up as the (64 bit) offset |
| 13:30:05 | | Quit SirFunk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:30:11 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:30:18 | amiconn | Warnings about implicit declaration are often important |
| 13:30:29 | amiconn | I wouldn't consider this a bug |
| 13:33:11 | | Quit jurrie (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 13:33:26 | Lear | Yes, but why would that cause the 64-bit version to be called? I had no idea what the problem was until I read strace output. |
| 13:34:11 | | Join SirFunk [0] (n=Sir@cpe-74-71-205-222.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 13:34:52 | amiconn | Because the 64 bit version is default in cygwin, probably there is no 32 bit version |
| 13:35:09 | amiconn | I think what unistd.h does is declare off_t to be a 64 bit int |
| 13:35:18 | | Join FOAD [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 13:37:13 | | Quit maddler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:37:17 | | Join maddler [0] (n=maddler@217-133-171-24.b2b.tiscali.it) |
| 13:37:53 | Lear | Ought to be different versions, as strace output differs. And unistd.h does declare separate lseek and lseek64 functions. |
| 13:38:58 | | Quit Nimdae (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 13:39:04 | Lear | Though that was _lseek and _lseek64, when building newlib, it seems... :) |
| 13:42:24 | | Join mustik [0] (n=Miranda@194.154.66.251) |
| 13:44:11 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ppp185-226.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 13:45:46 | | Quit mustik () |
| 13:51:57 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955F7E5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:56:19 | | Join courtc [0] (n=court@c-24-99-230-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 13:59:04 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 13:59:13 | | Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:07 | | Quit webguest10 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 14:03:44 | | Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007120410]") |
| 14:10:24 | | Join mustik [0] (n=Miranda@194.154.66.251) |
| 14:15:50 | | Join m0f0x__ [0] (n=m0f0x@189-47-61-66.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 14:22:31 | | Quit m0f0x_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:27:05 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:29:54 | | Nick parafin|away is now known as parafin (i=parafin@paraf.in) |
| 14:38:16 | | Quit advcomp2019 ("There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.") |
| 14:46:34 | | Join japc [0] (n=japc@194.65.5.235) |
| 14:49:24 | | Quit mustik (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:50:28 | | Quit SirFunk (Remote closed the connection) |
| 14:58:34 | Bagder | Casainho: I think you're using the word "pretend" a bit funny at times... |
| 14:59:13 | Casainho | well, I don't have big knowledge in english |
| 14:59:21 | Casainho | sorry |
| 14:59:25 | Bagder | no, but look up that particular word |
| 14:59:40 | | Join webguest10 [0] (n=c29a42fb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-cd9dc60d703f98e4) |
| 14:59:41 | Bagder | and you'll see that it makes no sense to say "If they pretend to build a dev board"... |
| 14:59:53 | Bagder | I doubt they pretend that |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:32 | Bagder | it's just an advice, I understand that we all have different levels of english skills and my own is far from perfect |
| 15:00:35 | | Join Febs [0] (n=chatzill@38.98.196.75) |
| 15:01:13 | GodEater | the reason 50% of the english population wouldn't understand you Bagder, is that you speak it better than they do. |
| 15:01:27 | GodEater | the collective IQ of the UK is spiralling downwards rapidly |
| 15:01:28 | | Quit webguest10 (Client Quit) |
| 15:02:07 | * | Bagder fades away again |
| 15:02:19 | GodEater | a friend of mine in Stockholm has a better vocabulary in English than I do - which I find embarassing. |
| 15:02:35 | GodEater | a couple of times I've been speaking to him and had to ask him what something meant :( |
| 15:02:50 | Casainho | I would like to know what you think about that online shop? |
| 15:04:00 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:04:15 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@62.1.19.101) |
| 15:06:19 | BigBambi | GodEater: Sadly too true |
| 15:08:54 | | Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-72-76-184-14.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 15:09:55 | GodEater | I need to get myself over to stockholm again soon. Haven't been for a couple of years now. |
| 15:10:16 | GodEater | it wins my "favourite european city" award hands down |
| 15:10:31 | BigBambi | I've never been, just to Gothenburg |
| 15:10:59 | BigBambi | (or Göteborg) |
| 15:11:02 | BigBambi | :) |
| 15:11:29 | GodEater | ah - yes, the muppet chef accent is stronger there :) |
| 15:17:45 | | Quit khermans (Remote closed the connection) |
| 15:19:52 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:33:56 | | Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε") |
| 15:34:13 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ppp185-226.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 15:39:56 | amiconn | yay! |
| 15:40:13 | * | amiconn now has a nice lcd_grey_phase_blit() for H1x0 as well :) |
| 15:43:09 | amiconn | (and some slight optimisations for the other H1x0 asm lcd routines) |
| 15:46:57 | | Quit lee-qid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:47:14 | | Join lee-qid_ [0] (n=liqid@p54964C2E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:47:14 | | Nick lee-qid_ is now known as lee-qid (n=liqid@p54964C2E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:52:22 | | Join mf0102 [0] (n=michi@85.127.20.164) |
| 15:54:29 | | Join MethoS-- [0] (n=clemens@pD955F0F8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:57:42 | | Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@unaffiliated/kugel) |
| 15:58:45 | GodEater | typical |
| 15:58:58 | | Quit xushi () |
| 15:59:07 | amiconn | ? |
| 15:59:25 | GodEater | I tried to politely inform those archos chaps that posting a "please help us with the archos 605" message in our forums wasn't particularly welcome. (although I was more polite) |
| 15:59:32 | GodEater | and I just got flamed for it |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:08 | GodEater | somewhat weirdly the guy who flamed me then started ranting about the "PSP Port". |
| 16:00:16 | GodEater | what that has to do with anything is beyond me |
| 16:03:23 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 16:03:32 | Bagder | people |
| 16:03:55 | | Join mrkiko [0] (n=pv@adsl-ull-136-203.42-151.net24.it) |
| 16:03:57 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 16:04:18 | markun | GodEater: do you have a link? |
| 16:04:32 | mrkiko | A good new year to all the people here! |
| 16:04:49 | markun | mrkiko: you too! |
| 16:04:53 | GodEater | I'll have to pastebin it markun - it was a PM |
| 16:04:54 | rvvs89 | GodEater: It's people like that who influenced me to stop providing support on the ipodlinux forums |
| 16:05:39 | GodEater | markun: http://pastebin.com/d571a2c07 |
| 16:06:30 | | Quit fxb (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:06:39 | GodEater | markun: and the link to the forum on their site where I explained why I'd removed his post : http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?t=11144&start=140&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= |
| 16:06:49 | | Join fxb [0] (n=felixbru@p548F73EA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:06:52 | GodEater | my entry is on page 8 |
| 16:07:35 | | Quit fxb (Client Quit) |
| 16:08:12 | | Join fxb [0] (n=felixbru@p548F73EA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:08:26 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:10:09 | | Join scorche|w [0] (n=42c007b2@ice.cream.org) |
| 16:19:32 | | Join jurrie [0] (n=jurrie@adsl-068-209-041-021.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 16:19:51 | | Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 16:21:40 | | Quit fxb () |
| 16:24:08 | | Join fxb [0] (n=felixbru@p548F73EA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:25:16 | | Join fxb__ [0] (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 16:26:37 | amiconn | hmm |
| 16:26:48 | Casainho | Bagder: what do you think about that compnay possible be interested in make some kind of dev bnoard? |
| 16:27:17 | * | amiconn is undecided whether it's worth adding an asm file for greyscale ipod lcd routines |
| 16:27:37 | amiconn | Right now there is none, unlike for sh1 (archos) and coldfire (h1x0 and m5) |
| 16:32:44 | | Quit fxb () |
| 16:32:45 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 16:34:34 | | Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-024-163-032-204.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 16:34:34 | | Quit jgarvey (Client Quit) |
| 16:35:31 | | Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-024-163-032-204.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 16:38:22 | | Join YippMN [0] (n=dwayne@mn-71-55-156-18.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 16:39:48 | YippMN | when i want to copy music files and folders over , do i just drop them onto the .rockbox folder, and also videos too? |
| 16:40:13 | YippMN | i don't see anything about this in the manual |
| 16:41:04 | krazykit | you could, but i don't recommend putting them there. |
| 16:41:20 | krazykit | put them anywhere else you like |
| 16:41:38 | YippMN | ok where do they go then, or is there a doc that tells what to do with music and video? |
| 16:41:59 | krazykit | they go anywhere. i like to put music into a directory called "music" |
| 16:42:28 | YippMN | well if i put a video in say the video folder i see , won't that be the video folder for the sansa os? |
| 16:43:49 | YippMN | i'm looking at the folders on my e260 through a file browser in linux, so i see all the folders that sansa uses , such as Music and Video , and others , and the .rockbox foldeer |
| 16:43:51 | krazykit | i don't think the original firmware will see files it doesn't support, so it doesn't really matter. that being said, the Sansa's stupid OF sets the Hidden attribute on several folders including Music, so you'd have to change rockbox's "display" options to "all", or just use the database |
| 16:44:56 | GodEater | yeah, I think most sansa users create a "My Music" directory, so that the sansa doesn't hide it for them |
| 16:45:32 | GodEater | but as krazykit says - you can put the stuff anywhere you like - Rockbox will find it. |
| 16:45:44 | GodEater | although we generally say "don't put it in the .rockbox" directory |
| 16:45:58 | GodEater | since that will just make a mess |
| 16:46:07 | YippMN | i see , so i would have to creat the folder while in rockbox , or can i do it from the file browser on my machine |
| 16:46:21 | | Join Ramla_ [0] (n=ramla@c03.keltti.jyu.fi) |
| 16:46:36 | | Quit Ramla (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:47:02 | GodEater | your filebrowser is fine |
| 16:47:04 | YippMN | so your saying that if i just drop the files to the e260 , rockbox will put the files into the database on reboot? |
| 16:47:19 | GodEater | no - it will put them in the database when you ask it to |
| 16:47:32 | GodEater | (i.e. you choose to "Intialise Database" |
| 16:47:50 | GodEater | Rockbox will then go and search the entire drive for all supported music files |
| 16:47:58 | GodEater | and record them in its database |
| 16:48:48 | YippMN | ahh i see , and what about the folders rockbox has for poto and video and such , i suppose it will put any jpg or mpg file there such as it does with music files when updating the database |
| 16:49:10 | GodEater | the database is for audio files only |
| 16:49:23 | GodEater | any other files will require you to use Rockbox's filebrowser to navigate to them |
| 16:49:54 | YippMN | but if i drop a video file into it , or a photo how will rockbox find them or work with them , |
| 16:50:19 | GodEater | as I just said, you find them using Rockbox's file browser |
| 16:51:03 | YippMN | ahh ok just want to make sure i'm clear onwhat it does , so far rockbox is pretty darn nice and i accually won solitare after about 4 trys this morning woopieee! :) |
| 16:51:35 | YippMN | tnx for the help |
| 16:54:03 | YippMN | one more thing , about backdrops , would i just drop them in and then find them in rockbox again with the filebroswer or make a folder for them also ? |
| 16:55:01 | | Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=44a0430f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-964afb9d1ea5e9bd) |
| 16:55:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | Hey everyone, Happy New Years! |
| 16:56:08 | | Join mokkurkalve [0] (n=eivind@084202136126.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 16:56:10 | GodEater | you're an entire 24 hours behind the rest of the world ? :) |
| 16:56:28 | * | GodEater isn't sure where this timezone could be :) |
| 16:56:49 | LambdaCalculus37 | GodEater: No, I'm 24 hours late in showing up because I have a coughing, wheezing PC at home. :( |
| 16:57:15 | GodEater | better than mine - it's in it's grave |
| 16:57:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | rasher: Knock knock. |
| 16:58:05 | LambdaCalculus37 | I wanted to know if someone can take a look at FS #8366. |
| 16:59:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | It was completed over the weekend. |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:28 | | Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@usw3662-s-207-244-148-63.dsl.w-link.net) |
| 17:01:09 | | Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@atheme/developer/desowin) |
| 17:01:31 | | Join tchan1 [0] (n=tchan@c-24-13-84-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 17:04:02 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:12:46 | | Quit tchan (Nick collision from services.) |
| 17:13:39 | | Nick tchan1 is now known as tchan (n=tchan@c-24-13-84-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 17:25:54 | | Join jay [0] (n=470f96fe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-82afc5190e0fdc4b) |
| 17:25:59 | jay | hey room |
| 17:27:09 | | Quit jay (Client Quit) |
| 17:27:09 | | Quit MethoS-- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 17:32:22 | | Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 17:34:39 | pondlife | SOT: I've just "upgraded" to WinXP/IE7 and now Flyspray is displaying in a messy font. It's not ClearType - that's been thoroughly disabled - but looks like it's badly resized. All other Rockbox sites (and other sites) are ok. Is our Flyspray site expecting a particular font that I may need to install? |
| 17:35:27 | LambdaCalculus37 | pondlife: Using WinXP/IE7 at work... try switching to Unicode (UFT-8). |
| 17:35:36 | krazykit | pondlife, obviously the solution is to not use a broken browser ;) |
| 17:35:55 | pondlife | krazykit: Well, of course - sadly this is a work PC |
| 17:36:13 | krazykit | don't you people do *work* at work? |
| 17:36:14 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: Tell that to the clueless oafs in some IT departments. :) |
| 17:36:19 | pondlife | LambdaCalculus37: Already on UTF-8. |
| 17:36:30 | pondlife | krazykit: Much of the time, yes :) |
| 17:36:30 | Lear | And you can't install something else, like Opera or Firefox? |
| 17:36:44 | pondlife | I could, but it would be naughty. |
| 17:36:48 | pondlife | Rather not |
| 17:37:15 | pondlife | This is a clean install of XP, I suspect a font is missing and substitution is occurring. |
| 17:38:38 | pondlife | Just wondered if Bagder (or whoever admins Flyspray) could suggest. |
| 17:39:11 | | Join PaulJam [0] (n=pauljam@p54BCCFCC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:41:03 | * | LambdaCalculus37 wishes his IT department would just be smart and deploy Firefox... |
| 17:41:31 | * | petur is admin of his work pc :P |
| 17:41:37 | scorche|w | pondlife: how about not installing firefox and just running it off of a USB drive? |
| 17:42:00 | * | scorche|w is admin of all of the work PCs :P |
| 17:42:05 | pondlife | I could do that, or just ignore it. |
| 17:42:22 | pondlife | I'm an admin on this PC, but they don't like other software being brought in |
| 17:42:28 | conando | pondlife: could it be by any chance that a truetype font named "helvetica" is installed on your PC? |
| 17:42:51 | pondlife | It is. |
| 17:43:09 | conando | then your browser is using that for display instead of verdana... |
| 17:43:48 | conando | on many websites (the same with the rockbox flyspray page) the browser is instructed to use either helvetica, verdana or sans-serif.. in that order |
| 17:44:41 | conando | and most of the time on windows you don't have a font installed by the name of helvetica so the browser reverts to verdana.. but when it's installed it's used and suddenly many sites look "strange" ;) |
| 17:45:06 | YippMN | my sansa e260 just locked up and its showing divide by zero at 00020cab on the screen , help :) |
| 17:45:17 | idnar | I happen to vastly prefer the real Helvetica over Verdana, but often you have some other crummy font masquerading as Helvetica |
| 17:45:20 | krazykit | YippMN, hold the power button for 15 or so seconds |
| 17:45:22 | YippMN | can't shut it off or do anything |
| 17:45:41 | conando | idnar exactly ;) |
| 17:46:03 | YippMN | krazykit, ahh ok didn't hold it quite long enough tnx |
| 17:46:36 | conando | idnar although somehow even the "good" helvetica versions on windows look strange when used in a browser (at least without any form of cleartype that is) ... :/ |
| 17:47:34 | idnar | conando: that's probably because of the resolution handling mess on windows |
| 17:50:43 | conando | who knows.. however it's a little pain in the *ss if you have to use helvetica for other things (work) and many websites look like sh*t because of it... ;) |
| 17:55:09 | | Join Jeton [0] (n=chatzill@79.126.190.109) |
| 17:56:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | Looking for Rio Karma information online... |
| 17:57:03 | LambdaCalculus37 | Info's kind of thin in places. |
| 17:57:51 | krazykit | you're going to have a major problem on the karma; it isn't formatted fat32 and there's no MSC mode |
| 17:58:30 | Jeton | markun: any chance about adding bookmarking (more than one that is) to the text-viewer? |
| 17:58:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: You owned one? |
| 17:58:34 | krazykit | since it's portalplayer, we don't have USB for it, another stumbling point |
| 17:58:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: We didn't have USB for the iPods and H10 when we started, but yes, no MSC will pose a problem. |
| 17:59:02 | krazykit | LambdaCalculus37, i owned 2 and am admin of the only active rio forum left |
| 17:59:21 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: Link? |
| 17:59:44 | LambdaCalculus37 | I'm going to join up to see if anyone's interested. |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:04 | krazykit | hardly anyone with a karma anymore is, to be honest |
| 18:00:28 | krazykit | really, a port is not feasible UNTIL we get working USB for portalplayer. |
| 18:00:56 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: I can at least research the hardware and look for datasheets in the meantime. |
| 18:02:17 | krazykit | in order, i'd google for the empeg bbs, forums-riovolution.com, then riovolution.org |
| 18:02:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | I have a little bit of hardware info up here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RioKarmaPort |
| 18:03:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: Noted. |
| 18:03:21 | krazykit | firmware upgrades were done with an updater executable: i don't know that any mi4 was ever extracted. |
| 18:03:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | I have the firmware updater here, so I'll see if I can study it further. |
| 18:04:17 | | Join Rondom [0] (n=Rondom@p57A9629B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:04:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | If it's mi4 based then the next step should be to see if it's encrypted in any. |
| 18:04:27 | LambdaCalculus37 | * way |
| 18:05:09 | krazykit | there was significant work done for USB stuff if that'll help. look up the linux-karma project |
| 18:05:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: Going there now. |
| 18:06:40 | | Quit Jeton ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]") |
| 18:07:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: You weren't kidding when you said the Karma wasn't FAT32. :) |
| 18:07:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | And I thought MTP was bad enough... |
| 18:08:14 | | Quit petur ("work->home") |
| 18:08:30 | krazykit | it isn't MTP, it's a custom transfer protocol. the drives were formatted in OMFS and even had a custom partition table. there's tricksy stuff going on. |
| 18:09:27 | pondlife | conando: Removing Helvetica made no difference. It looks like some kind of bad attempt at font resizing. |
| 18:09:31 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 18:10:32 | pondlife | If copy/paste is to be believed, it's using Times New Roman :/ |
| 18:10:55 | | Join jay [0] (n=470f96fe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-6ea39c9511f93b58) |
| 18:10:57 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: Well, this certainly has enlightened me about the Karma now. Thanks for pointing this out to me. |
| 18:11:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | This is going up on the wiki. |
| 18:11:09 | conando | pondlife: uh, that's quite weird |
| 18:11:30 | pondlife | I'll pop a screen cap up.. |
| 18:11:36 | jay | I love ockBox! |
| 18:11:42 | jay | RockBox* |
| 18:12:36 | conando | pondlife: in the css it says helvetica, verdana or "sans-serif"... so times new roman should be the absolutely last choice for the browser :S |
| 18:13:00 | pondlife | pondlife.homeip.net/images/flyspray.jpg">http://pondlife.homeip.net/images/flyspray.jpg shows what I mean |
| 18:13:36 | pondlife | I think it's using Helvetica (or Verdana if I delete that), but resizing horribly |
| 18:14:25 | conando | yeah.. hm.. so even if it's using verdana it looks badly resized? strange |
| 18:15:36 | conando | amazingly looks like a pretty old x11 screenshot... lol.. weird |
| 18:16:12 | conando | would be interesting to see what it looks like in firefox on the same machine |
| 18:19:05 | | Part peppot |
| 18:19:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: You still haven't got your Karmas, have you? |
| 18:20:06 | krazykit | i've got one with a broken scroll wheel around here somewhere |
| 18:20:45 | krazykit | i think it still works. |
| 18:20:51 | | Quit PaulJam (".") |
| 18:22:03 | LambdaCalculus37 | I'm PROBABLY getting paid for not taking sick days from work at all last year, and with some of that money, I wanted to buy a lot of Karmas off eBay and pass them around to any interested devs. |
| 18:23:59 | | Quit YippMN ("Leaving") |
| 18:25:57 | | Quit jay ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 18:26:05 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@216-020-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 18:28:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | The Dell DJ will have to wait for a little bit until I can get a new battery for it. |
| 18:29:57 | LambdaCalculus37 | Ahh, work time is over. Food time is now! |
| 18:31:47 | | Join weezerle [0] (n=weezerle@dslb-088-075-079-106.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:31:59 | | Quit weezerle (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:45:58 | | Join InMyMind [0] (n=a@bb-81-175-158-251.dsl.phnet.fi) |
| 18:51:09 | | Quit pondlife ("Leaving.") |
| 18:55:19 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 18:58:26 | | Quit Casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]") |
| 18:59:51 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:03:56 | | Join midge1 [0] (n=TJ@c-71-205-31-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 19:04:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:04:21 | LambdaCalculus37 | krazykit: I can't thank you nearly enough for pointing me out to Empeg BBS and Riovolution. |
| 19:04:44 | LambdaCalculus37 | But... thanks! :) |
| 19:05:02 | ze | LambdaCalculus37: i hope you make some progress |
| 19:05:36 | LambdaCalculus37 | ze: Once I get a Karma, of course... :) |
| 19:05:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | I only got the idea when a co-worker showed me his. |
| 19:05:48 | ze | i've got one |
| 19:05:53 | ze | i've even got a spare mainboard |
| 19:05:54 | LambdaCalculus37 | ze: Working? |
| 19:05:57 | ze | yep |
| 19:06:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | ze: Are you willing to part with it? |
| 19:06:14 | ze | no |
| 19:06:15 | ze | heh |
| 19:06:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | ze: Had to ask. :) |
| 19:06:23 | ze | i'm willing to expiriment though |
| 19:06:31 | LambdaCalculus37 | ze: Have you got a scanner? |
| 19:06:37 | ze | i can brick up to 1 mainboard :p |
| 19:06:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | Well, no bricking yet. :P |
| 19:07:14 | ze | by scanner do you mean a regular image scanner? if so, then yeah only like 2 or 5 of them |
| 19:07:17 | ze | :p |
| 19:07:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | Can you scan the mainboard and the hardware inside and post them to http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RioKarmaPort |
| 19:07:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | ? |
| 19:08:56 | ze | sure |
| 19:09:12 | ze | hopefully i've still got it aroundand not packed up though |
| 19:09:15 | ze | i'll look around |
| 19:09:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | ze: Muchos gracais, fellow Rockboxer! :) |
| 19:09:44 | LambdaCalculus37 | *gracias :) |
| 19:09:48 | ze | heh |
| 19:11:14 | markun | hi LambdaCalculus37! :) |
| 19:11:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | Hi markun! |
| 19:12:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | Making pilgrim's progress on the Rio Karma front. |
| 19:13:16 | | Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat") |
| 19:14:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | I've got to remember to send ze a beer for his work on scanning the mainboard. :) |
| 19:14:39 | ze | hehe |
| 19:19:05 | | Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 19:19:17 | | Quit ptw419 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:21:51 | | Quit midgey (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:26:09 | | Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@m94.net81-66-75.noos.fr) |
| 19:27:27 | | Quit mirak (SendQ exceeded) |
| 19:28:20 | | Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@m94.net81-66-75.noos.fr) |
| 19:29:44 | | Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend") |
| 19:30:03 | | Quit axionix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:30:17 | | Join axionix [0] (n=axion@cpe-74-70-239-192.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 19:30:53 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 19:33:09 | | Join Rincewind [0] (i=TFzb2qAx@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 19:37:57 | | Quit quaal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:38:42 | | Join quaal [0] (n=l@pool-96-228-165-104.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:44:00 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF5373.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:46:14 | | Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 3.0b3pre/2007123005]") |
| 19:48:37 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:48:41 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) |
| 19:53:22 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF5373.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:54:06 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 20:00 |
| 20:02:13 | amiconn | meh |
| 20:02:29 | | Quit hannesd ("Client suicide") |
| 20:02:43 | | Join hannesd [0] (n=light@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) |
| 20:02:57 | * | amiconn can't find out what the flaming hell he's doing wrong |
| 20:05:00 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@adsl-75-23-149-66.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:06:14 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:07:46 | | Join LycoLoco [0] (n=Lyco@cpe-075-181-041-203.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 20:09:10 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF5373.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:12:14 | | Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host73-213-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:12:58 | | Quit japc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:21:03 | | Quit gnoob (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:21:57 | | Join gnoob [0] (n=ToolBoy@c-71-201-79-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:22:47 | | Quit gnoob (Connection reset by peer) |
| 20:23:42 | | Join gnoob [0] (n=ToolBoy@c-71-201-79-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:26:02 | | Join GodEater [0] (n=godeater@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 20:27:57 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:32:38 | * | LycoLoco is away: Not here |
| 20:33:27 | | Join JdGordon|w [0] (n=836b0048@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-3aaba913e1ba8562) |
| 20:36:18 | | Join countrymonkeyweb [0] (n=4b05639a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-daf2593ec5277d55) |
| 20:36:37 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:36:47 | countrymonkeyweb | Can new builds of rb use mp3 talkclips on swcodec targets? |
| 20:37:02 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF5373.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:38:52 | LambdaCalculus37 | I thought only the hwcodec targets still used MP3 clips. |
| 20:39:25 | countrymonkeyweb | Primarily. Just wondering if the new builds supported both or just speex. |
| 20:39:54 | | Quit JdGordon|w ("CGI:IRC") |
| 20:39:57 | LycoLoco | ? |
| 20:40:03 | LycoLoco | sorry, wrong channel |
| 20:43:13 | countrymonkeyweb | I must go. |
| 20:43:56 | countrymonkeyweb | Bye! |
| 20:44:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | countrymonkeyweb: Bye! |
| 20:48:17 | | Quit bertrik ("bye") |
| 20:49:35 | | Quit GodEater ("Leaving") |
| 20:49:50 | | Join lassesdatamaskin [0] (n=sindre@165.80-202-81.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:50:13 | | Join GodEater [0] (n=vircuser@bb-87-80-121-64.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 20:54:37 | | Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!") |
| 20:57:17 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@84.Red-217-125-28.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:02:22 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 21:04:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:06:15 | | Quit GodEater (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:06:45 | | Join GodEater [0] (n=vircuser@bb-87-80-121-64.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 21:07:45 | | Join webguest01 [0] (n=3f76e607@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-ee55a8d9fabaf0d3) |
| 21:08:58 | | Quit mrkiko ("leaving") |
| 21:09:46 | | Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat") |
| 21:11:03 | | Quit spiorf ("Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)") |
| 21:12:29 | | Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host73-213-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:12:34 | | Join karashata [0] (n=Kimi@207.61.207.167) |
| 21:12:59 | | Quit spiorf (Client Quit) |
| 21:13:17 | | Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host73-213-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:13:31 | | Quit GodEater ("Client exited") |
| 21:14:20 | | Quit webguest01 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 21:18:32 | | Join JdGordon|w [0] (n=836b0048@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-8fe0e05bf2dbe427) |
| 21:19:34 | | Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@117.98.55.75) |
| 21:20:12 | | Join Felixx [0] (n=michael@c-67-172-244-143.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:21:04 | | Part AceNik |
| 21:23:42 | | Join bluebrother [0] (n=Dom@16.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 21:26:45 | amiconn | ngagh! |
| 21:26:58 | | Join random_infinity [0] (n=ri@stgt-d9bea4e0.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:27:12 | * | amiconn fooled himself with rockbox.ipod in the root vs. in /.rockbox |
| 21:30:36 | JdGordon|w | dont you hate that? |
| 21:32:08 | | Join Casainho [0] (n=chatzill@87-196-67-155.net.novis.pt) |
| 21:34:09 | JdGordon|w | amiconn: did you look at the demo plugin i atteched to the ml? does that make more sense? |
| 21:34:10 | amiconn | quite. |
| 21:34:22 | | Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 21:34:24 | amiconn | (@ first question) |
| 21:34:34 | amiconn | Didn't check the ml today... |
| 21:36:22 | * | LambdaCalculus37 is searching for more info on PP5003 |
| 21:36:39 | bluebrother | pp5003? |
| 21:37:01 | LambdaCalculus37 | bluebrother: Another PortalPlayer chip... the Rio Karma used it. |
| 21:37:11 | bluebrother | ah. |
| 21:37:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | All I know about it is that unlike its younger brother, the PP5002, this one had an "uncrippled" cache. |
| 21:37:45 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 21:37:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | Well, besides that it was dual ARM7 and clocked up to 90 MHz. |
| 21:39:05 | LambdaCalculus37 | Pretty powerful SoC for its time. |
| 21:39:18 | * | bluebrother notices the tracker is about to hit the 1000 open tasks limit |
| 21:42:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | Who's well versed in the ways of PortalPlayer? |
| 21:44:33 | | Part random_infinity |
| 21:44:53 | | Join Crash91 [0] (n=Crash@41.232.215.117) |
| 21:47:29 | | Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) |
| 21:49:30 | | Join midgey [0] (n=TJ@c-71-205-31-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 21:49:42 | | Join Wex [0] (n=Wex@adsl-218-181-238.jax.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:50:10 | | Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:51:03 | countrymonkeyweb | What is going to happen when it hits that? |
| 21:51:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | countrymonkeyweb: The universe will be torn asunder. :) |
| 21:51:38 | countrymonkeyweb | No it will not. |
| 21:52:16 | countrymonkeyweb | And bluebrother, what is holding up rbutil v1.0.4? |
| 21:52:21 | Crash91 | countrymonkeyweb: when what hits what |
| 21:52:39 | countrymonkeyweb | when the tracker hits the 1000 open tasks limit |
| 21:53:08 | Crash91 | countrymonkeyweb: What LambdaCalculus37 said is true |
| 21:54:04 | countrymonkeyweb | Why will the planet be tore apart just because of rockbox and flyspray? |
| 21:54:39 | countrymonkeyweb | I have no sense of humor. |
| 21:54:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | Time to leave... |
| 21:54:40 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 21:55:17 | countrymonkeyweb | Bluebrother: What is holding up rbutil v1.0.4? |
| 21:55:55 | scorche|w | countrymonkeyweb: you just asked that.. |
| 21:56:22 | countrymonkeyweb | My client shows it didn't get sent. |
| 21:56:46 | scorche|w | you can always check on the logs on the site |
| 21:57:18 | countrymonkeyweb | ok. This client is known to be buggy, but I love the interface, so... |
| 21:58:11 | Llorean | countrymonkeyweb: I *know* I've told you to check the logs first before. |
| 21:59:11 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@84.Red-217-125-28.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:59:19 | countrymonkeyweb | If you did, I don't remember. |
| 22:00 |
| 22:03:07 | | Join eigma [0] (i=eigma@216.48.162.210) |
| 22:03:08 | | Join midge2 [0] (n=TJ@c-71-205-31-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 22:03:57 | JdGordon|w | hey eigma |
| 22:06:36 | | Quit midge1 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:06:39 | countrymonkeyweb | I am trying to build a chinese voice but I am getting english with a chinese accent. Why? |
| 22:06:54 | | Quit midgey (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:07:28 | amiconn | Looks like chinese-*.lang doesn't have the <voice> strings translated |
| 22:07:49 | | Quit Crash91 ("Leaving") |
| 22:08:22 | | Quit bluebrother (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:10:22 | eigma | hey Jd |
| 22:10:44 | eigma | I'm like 80% to the DSP picking up the audio data from SDRAM |
| 22:11:07 | eigma | it works if I always pick up the same half of the buffer, but I get data corruption if I enable the double-buffering (which is really mandatory) |
| 22:11:21 | eigma | double-buffering actually isn't the correct term |
| 22:11:31 | eigma | ping-pong buffering is probably closest |
| 22:17:37 | | Join Buschel [0] (n=AndreeBu@p54A3F7AD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:19:34 | Llorean | Alternating buffers? |
| 22:20:23 | | Quit desowin ("KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/") |
| 22:21:06 | JdGordon|w | eigma: cool :) |
| 22:22:24 | JdGordon|w | ping-pong buffer? fill half while the other half is being read? |
| 22:25:43 | | Join webguest14 [0] (n=4547a452@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-448f7e28f548e846) |
| 22:26:21 | * | Buschel needs some help with fs#8379 |
| 22:27:11 | | Quit JdGordon|w ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 22:29:01 | | Part midge2 |
| 22:30:04 | | Quit Casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007100814]") |
| 22:30:29 | webguest14 | hiya =] |
| 22:30:45 | | Join saratoga211 [0] (n=62e14d04@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-17121fc2728765f9) |
| 22:30:45 | | Quit Jon-Kha (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:32:09 | eigma | JdGordon: yeah, exactly |
| 22:32:50 | eigma | JdGordon: there's actually a chain of consumers/producers that always operate on the "opposite" half of the buffer.. McBSP reads out of one half, while DMAC reads from SDRAM into SARAM into the opposite half, while still the codec (CPU) decodes into the first half, but in SDRAM |
| 22:33:37 | eigma | anyway, data corruption seems to be happening right now, so I'm debugging it |
| 22:34:39 | saratoga211 | Buschel: you mean for current measurements? |
| 22:35:00 | | Join GodEater [0] (n=godeater@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 22:35:49 | Buschel | saratoga: yes. I just want to update a test-patch version for some measurements |
| 22:36:50 | | Join JdGordon|w [0] (n=836b0048@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-8cd38f308164e559) |
| 22:37:27 | Buschel | saratoga: just writing the comment for the new patch-version. |
| 22:37:49 | JdGordon|w | eigma: sounds like fun :p |
| 22:39:04 | eigma | right :P |
| 22:39:14 | Buschel | saratoga: just added the new version where I need some testing help |
| 22:39:20 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend") |
| 22:39:23 | | Join Redbreva [0] (n=Miranda@host86-144-107-17.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:40:12 | | Join bluefox83 [0] (n=bluefox@dynamic-acs-24-239-249-234.zoominternet.net) |
| 22:40:37 | Buschel | saratoga: can you perform such testing with your unit? |
| 22:41:01 | | Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε") |
| 22:41:46 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF5373.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:42:52 | saratoga211 | Buschel: I can, but I may not have access to the equipment until next week |
| 22:43:16 | saratoga211 | otherwise, i can take measurements on my e200 |
| 22:43:25 | bluefox83 | i am looking to add ogg playback to my coby 512 mb mp3 player, but can't seem to find any information about that particular player on your website, can anyone point me in the right direction for info? |
| 22:43:35 | Buschel | does e200 use pp5022/5024? |
| 22:43:40 | Llorean | bluefox83: There's isn't any |
| 22:43:44 | Bagder | Buschel: 5024 |
| 22:43:50 | Llorean | Buschel: It's the only 5024 Rockbox target, I believe. |
| 22:44:20 | bluefox83 | Llorean, is it going to be added at some point, or should I look elsewhere? |
| 22:44:22 | Buschel | a good start to check, if there is _any_ influence then |
| 22:44:41 | Llorean | bluefox83: Players only get added if people who own them work on them. It's a volunteer project. |
| 22:44:57 | webguest14 | pardon, Any info about recovering an erased firmware on Sansa View? |
| 22:45:03 | bluefox83 | oh, well i have absolutely no idea how to do that kinda stuff... |
| 22:45:09 | | Quit GodEater (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:45:11 | BigBambi | webguest14: Rockbox doesn't support the sansa view |
| 22:45:11 | Bagder | ... but the chance for anyone to start working on a 512mb device is next to zero |
| 22:45:17 | | Join mf0102 [0] (n=michi@85.127.20.164) |
| 22:45:19 | Buschel | saratoga: so, measurements on e200 are possible before next week? |
| 22:45:42 | Llorean | bluefox83: For all practical purposes, you're better off assuming it won't happen, and trying to find a cheap player that Rockbox does work on then. ;) |
| 22:45:48 | saratoga211 | Buschel: depends if anyone is around this weekend to unlock the lab i've been using |
| 22:46:01 | saratoga211 | otherwise I will have to wait until next week to get access |
| 22:46:13 | bluefox83 | ok, thank you. and good luck to you all. I applaud your efforts! |
| 22:46:20 | | Part bluefox83 ("Leaving") |
| 22:46:44 | Buschel | saratoga: ok, just give me note, if you could make the measurements. and thanks a lot in advance :) |
| 22:46:52 | saratoga211 | sure |
| 22:47:03 | saratoga211 | will it be difficult for me to change the patch to work with the sansa? |
| 22:47:35 | webguest14 | BigBambi: Yes, but I found a thread in the forums about it recently being hacked |
| 22:47:54 | Bagder | "hacked" ? |
| 22:48:01 | Bagder | we're working on the view, yes |
| 22:48:04 | BigBambi | webguest14: That plus any wiki pages is all the info we have |
| 22:48:50 | Bagder | webguest14: you use recovery mode and manufacture mode, just like on the e200, I would guess |
| 22:49:43 | Bagder | but I'm pretty sure e200tool won't work on it as-is |
| 22:49:57 | Buschel | i don't think so. main changes for the measuremtns are in pp5020.h (only few), system-pp502x.c (the valid ones are set for pp5022/5024) |
| 22:50:54 | webguest14 | thx for info |
| 22:51:02 | Buschel | saratoga: the usb-stuff should also work for sansa −− all the other changes are ipod specific |
| 22:52:31 | saratoga211 | Buschel: so I just change the #if 1 line to #if 0 in your patch and it will disable PPL? |
| 22:53:25 | | Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p508A74D9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:53:35 | | Quit ompaul (Client Quit) |
| 22:53:43 | Buschel | saratoga: yes. disable PLL and use 24MHz |
| 22:54:06 | eigma | JdGordon: looks like it's working.. |
| 22:54:18 | eigma | JdGordon: it seems a little unstable, but that might just be my tools |
| 22:55:29 | eigma | I think I'll just have to try to play some music and see what happens |
| 22:56:21 | saratoga211 | Buschel: I haven't followed the clock scaling stuff for PP |
| 22:56:29 | saratoga211 | does the patch already adjust the clock speed as needed? |
| 22:56:48 | saratoga211 | basically, I'm asking if you'll be happy with just a #if 0 and a #if 1 measurement, or do you want more? |
| 22:56:55 | Buschel | 1a) = 30MHz with PLL -> leave patch as it is |
| 22:57:00 | JdGordon|w | eigma: :) this with just sin-wave still? |
| 22:57:30 | Buschel | 1b) = 24MHz with PLL -> only uncomment the mentioned line (still within the #if1-section) |
| 22:57:47 | eigma | JdGordon: not exactly.. it's a variable-frequency square wave - but it's generated in the ARM |
| 22:57:53 | Buschel | 1c) = 24MHz without PLL -> change "#if 1" to "#if 0" |
| 22:58:35 | eigma | JdGordon: do you know how to read files from the harddrive in the bootloader? |
| 22:58:55 | JdGordon|w | should be able to do it with the usual open/read functions |
| 22:59:07 | eigma | JdGordon: fopen? or..? |
| 22:59:11 | JdGordon|w | no |
| 22:59:19 | JdGordon|w | open(filename, flags); |
| 22:59:44 | JdGordon|w | fd = open("file.ext", O_RDONLY); |
| 22:59:53 | saratoga211 | i hate open |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:07 | saratoga211 | it took me about 2 hours to realize it wasn't the same as fopen the first time i used it |
| 23:00:20 | eigma | lol |
| 23:00:20 | JdGordon|w | haha that sucks :D |
| 23:00:21 | eigma | ouch |
| 23:01:06 | eigma | will anything blow up if I try to allocate a "char buffer[4 megabytes]" and read() it all at once? |
| 23:01:12 | | Quit countrymonkeyweb ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 23:01:45 | webguest14 | pardon again, is e200tool for windows still available anywhere ? |
| 23:01:58 | saratoga211 | i guess the stack would blow up if you tried it there, but i think it'd work on the heap |
| 23:02:16 | saratoga211 | sebguest14: I don't know if it works on Windows correctly |
| 23:02:18 | eigma | heap? - I mean a static buffer |
| 23:02:50 | JdGordon|w | should be ok |
| 23:03:02 | JdGordon|w | static is on the heap |
| 23:03:23 | Bagder | webguest14: I took it off daniel.haxx.se since very few people manage to use/run it on windows |
| 23:04:09 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:04:12 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 23:04:47 | | Join uwe__ [0] (n=uwe@dslb-084-056-062-180.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:08:01 | obo | I don't know if it will be of any use, but for those playing with DM320 devices I've just attached a linux kernel diff to the SansaConnect wiki page that has quite a few DM320 and DM310 drivers |
| 23:08:32 | soap | Llorean, are you a wiki admin as well? |
| 23:08:44 | soap | There are some attached themes which really should be removed. |
| 23:08:58 | eigma | obo: link please? |
| 23:09:05 | scorche|w | soap: only the swedes are |
| 23:09:15 | obo | eigma: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaConnect |
| 23:09:39 | Bagder | soap: one of them WPSes? |
| 23:09:53 | eigma | wow, that wiki really screws up Content-types, doesn't it.. |
| 23:09:55 | * | JdGordon|w brb |
| 23:09:58 | | Quit JdGordon|w ("CGI:IRC") |
| 23:10:02 | Llorean | soap: No, I think only Bagder and Zagor and maybe LinusN can do wiki adminny things |
| 23:10:22 | soap | yes, Bagder. I'll work on making a full list, but it /appears/ many of crzyboyster's themes are violating the licenses of the original artists. |
| 23:10:32 | Bagder | oh, sansa connect uses curl ;-) |
| 23:10:46 | Llorean | curl gets around |
| 23:10:51 | | Join JdGordon|w [0] (n=836b0048@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-ed23de2851c35f03) |
| 23:10:51 | obo | it does indeed |
| 23:11:49 | Bagder | soap: great - me, Zagor and LinusN all have the necessary powers |
| 23:11:53 | | Join Alonea [0] (n=chatzill@69.92.201.36) |
| 23:12:05 | scorche|w | as i said... ;) |
| 23:12:34 | Bagder | repeating is good for learning! ;-) |
| 23:13:19 | Alonea | how goes it my dears? |
| 23:13:29 | conando | it gets around.. but unfortunately still not in the movies :) |
| 23:13:31 | eigma | obo: nice patch, particularly the dm320_sleep stuff |
| 23:14:01 | Llorean | conando: It's made its way into the commercial videogame industry, I can't imagine movies being far behind if it's not tucked away in some digital video store already. |
| 23:14:05 | eigma | obo: a lot of it, kkurbjun and I have already ported to rockbox (the SPI and ATA drivers for instance) but I can see a lot of places where it'll come in handy |
| 23:14:07 | Bagder | conando: haha, exactly! ;-) |
| 23:14:29 | conando | yeah.. i read your blog recently ;) |
| 23:14:38 | Bagder | so I see... |
| 23:15:01 | conando | Llorean: hehe, you're right |
| 23:16:30 | | Quit uwe_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:16:51 | conando | btw.. regarding the picture flow plugin.. is there anything planned how this is going to "evolve"? i mean in regard to next steps.. or things that need getting fixed or implemented before it could actually be used? |
| 23:17:49 | | Quit Seed (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:17:49 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955F0F8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:17:49 | obo | eigma: glad it will be of some use :) |
| 23:17:49 | Llorean | conando: Well, a proper bmp resize should be nice. Otherwise you could hypothetically have WPSes that show now AA when Pictureflow does, or vice versa |
| 23:17:54 | | Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (i=parafin@paraf.in) |
| 23:18:12 | conando | i guess the main problem is because it's eating up pretty much all the memory and so only works when not playing a song? |
| 23:18:13 | | Join Gnu47_ [0] (i=Gnu47@private.ntwk.thita.net) |
| 23:18:28 | Llorean | conando: Then a way needs to exist to integrate it into tagnavi/database, while some people would prefer it stay out of the core. Both of these might be achievable, actually, simultaneously. |
| 23:18:29 | | Quit Gnu47 (Nick collision from services.) |
| 23:18:41 | | Nick Gnu47_ is now known as Gnu47 (i=Gnu47@private.ntwk.thita.net) |
| 23:19:46 | conando | Llorean: i understand.. and can see the ups and downs of each... hm personally i'd think it's not supposed to be in the core |
| 23:20:00 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:20:20 | Llorean | Yes, but it may not be feasible for it to not be in the core, and still be readily usable. As in, it may complicate things too much keeping it out of the core, for minimal gain. |
| 23:20:50 | conando | from a technical point of view.. yes |
| 23:21:18 | Llorean | Well from a non-technical point of view, a user wouldn't be able to tell if it's in the core or not. |
| 23:21:18 | eigma | obo: a lot of it, kkurbjun and I have already ported to rockbox (the SPI and ATA drivers for instance) but I can see a lot of places where it'll come in handy |
| 23:21:22 | eigma | oops :) |
| 23:21:44 | conando | is it currently a requirement on all targets that it can only be used when no songs are being played or only on swcodec targets or targets with low memory? |
| 23:22:00 | | Part rigel |
| 23:22:11 | Llorean | conando: I don't believe it runs on the non-SWcodec targets. At least, their screens aren't very suitable for album art, at all. |
| 23:22:32 | conando | Llorean: you're right.. as always ;) |
| 23:22:45 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955F0F8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:23:03 | | Join hachi [0] (i=hachi@shego.kuiki.net) |
| 23:23:29 | amiconn | Afaik pictureflow only runs on colour swcodec targets atm (unlike album art in wps which also works on greyscale swcodec targets) |
| 23:23:31 | conando | oh ok.. i thought there might be higher equipped non-SWcodec targets too.. i'm not yet very savy when it comes to know each supported target.. as i only own two of them |
| 23:23:37 | hachi | I'm getting an error that says "[something] buffer full" when I resume playback, but I just can't get my eyes to read what it's throwing an error on |
| 23:23:44 | hachi | anyone know what it would be so I can grep for it? |
| 23:24:01 | eigma | ugh.. open("rover.raw",0) / 'rover.raw' is not an absolute path.... it's in the root :\ |
| 23:24:10 | | Join GodEater [0] (n=godeater@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 23:24:12 | Llorean | conando: There are a wide range of amounts of RAM, but the way things are currently engineered either Playback gets the whole "buffer" or Plugins do. |
| 23:24:13 | JdGordon|w | \rover.raw |
| 23:24:20 | amiconn | / |
| 23:24:21 | Llorean | conando: Otherwise Plugins only get a 512kB slice of it. |
| 23:24:27 | conando | amiconn: i read about the colour requirement... |
| 23:24:28 | JdGordon|w | bah yeah... / |
| 23:24:46 | Llorean | conando: As it stands, you could probably fit 10-15 album covers in that slice, and just spin the disk like crazy while Pictureflow is being used, I'd imagine. |
| 23:24:59 | conando | Llorean: oh ok, that explains it all then.. i didn't know about this either-all-or-none policy... |
| 23:25:05 | eigma | christ |
| 23:25:11 | eigma | I keep getting stack overflows in the ata functions |
| 23:25:30 | JdGordon|w | do the reads in mutliple smaller reads? |
| 23:25:40 | conando | Llorean: i'm mainly using a flash based target so i didn't give the hd-spin much of a thought lately ;) but of course that's right |
| 23:25:41 | JdGordon|w | although.. that may not be the problem |
| 23:25:45 | Llorean | conando: Playback will *always* want as much of the buffer as possible. Once it's full, Plugins can't reclaim just part of it, because they don't know which part the playback engine still needs to use, and which part's "at the end" and won't interrupt playing, and such. |
| 23:26:05 | eigma | yeah.. 1 KByte read causes stkov |
| 23:27:20 | saratoga211 | amiconn: did you see Buschel's questions about the PLL on the PP? |
| 23:28:48 | amiconn | eigma: Then there must be something wrong on your target |
| 23:28:57 | conando | Llorean: that's true ... but if it would be integrated into the core this would have to be changed somehow as well... at least it had to made configurable.. if picture flow should be used there would have to be reserved some more space for it |
| 23:29:27 | | Quit webguest14 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 23:29:41 | amiconn | read() isn't limited in the size it can handle. My ata test plugin reads up to (nearly) full buffer size, i.e. up to ~62MB on ipod video |
| 23:29:47 | Llorean | conando: Why? |
| 23:29:48 | conando | Llorean: or perhaps you could even configure how much memory.. and depending on that picture flow could load as many covers as fit into mem |
| 23:30:03 | eigma | amiconn: yeah, I hacked this thing up pretty good.. cut out various init calls to speed up my development cycle, etc.. I'll have to track down the problem. |
| 23:30:30 | JdGordon|w | eigma: yeah, somethis is definatly wrong.. the mr500 has no problems running themes, so unless youve broken something.... |
| 23:30:32 | Llorean | conando: Picture flow could use the whole buffer if playback is stopped, or provide slower performance if music is playing. You can't zoom through the list, because it has to load them as you go but it'd still probably move at a decent speed. |
| 23:30:34 | conando | Llorean: hm else it could still only be used while no song is playing... |
| 23:31:06 | conando | Llorean: that was exactly what i meant ;) |
| 23:31:13 | Llorean | That requires no "configuration" though. |
| 23:31:15 | Llorean | No options. |
| 23:31:37 | Llorean | It wouldn't require more reserved space either. |
| 23:31:51 | eigma | for open to work, I need ata_init, disk_init and disk_mount_all.. anything else? |
| 23:31:54 | conando | i thought at least an option to let the user decide the tradeof between performance/scroll speed when music is playing |
| 23:32:10 | saratoga211 | that'd be hard to write i think |
| 23:32:24 | saratoga211 | i don't think we can resize the playback buffer on the fly |
| 23:32:29 | Llorean | conando: For that to work, it'd need to *always* reserve that memory, which would then mean that they would see bad battery life even if it's been hours since they used pictureflow. |
| 23:32:59 | JdGordon|w | sandsmark: in theory we shuold be able to chop the end off the buffer.. but its not implemented iirc |
| 23:33:13 | eigma | sweet, it's working |
| 23:33:18 | JdGordon|w | :) |
| 23:33:18 | eigma | the reading, I mean :P |
| 23:33:24 | JdGordon|w | what was the problem? |
| 23:33:31 | eigma | wrong order |
| 23:33:41 | eigma | dsp_init was reading but I accidentally had that above ata_init et al. |
| 23:33:41 | Llorean | saratoga211: If I recall, they were talking about the idea of "buffering" an item of a certain size, that's not a song but rather the space for Pictureflow's buffer, using the buffering APi. So it sorta resizes the buffer, in the same sense that "putting a codec on the buffer" decreases the space available for songs. |
| 23:33:46 | conando | Llorean: ok got it.. because of the missing possibility to dynamically reserve/reclaim memory... |
| 23:33:57 | JdGordon|w | eigma: better than forgetting an init completly :p |
| 23:34:03 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:34:07 | saratoga211 | Llorean: haha so basically use MOB as a malloc buffer? |
| 23:34:22 | Llorean | conando: Even if you wanted to dynamically reserve/reclaim memory, you'd have to ALWAYS reserve it, or be able to get the full playback system status, and have playback unbuffer audio so that pictureflow could then use it. |
| 23:34:26 | Llorean | saratoga211: That's kinda what it sounded like, yes. |
| 23:34:33 | saratoga211 | neat idea |
| 23:34:38 | JdGordon|w | no no.. you have it all wrong.... |
| 23:34:41 | JdGordon|w | not malloc!! |
| 23:34:55 | conando | lol |
| 23:34:59 | saratoga211 | was actually going to suggest a while back that if people really wanted JPEG in core, they should find a way to run it out of MOB |
| 23:34:59 | Bagder | well, it will only be neat if the data can go away when the song is complete |
| 23:35:10 | saratoga211 | but I didn't want to lose face |
| 23:35:24 | Bagder | mob kind of implies short-lived data that dies when the song ends |
| 23:35:26 | GodEater | saratoga211, sort of like loading a picture "codec" ? :) |
| 23:35:39 | Llorean | Bagder: But codecs die when "there are no songs in the buffer of this format, and we're playing another format" right? |
| 23:35:44 | saratoga211 | hell just make people put the jpeg decoder in their ID3v2 tags |
| 23:35:50 | Llorean | GodEater: Gee, I've never suggested image codecs before. ;) |
| 23:35:57 | GodEater | hehe |
| 23:36:03 | saratoga211 | problem solved |
| 23:36:10 | Bagder | Llorean: hm, right. I'll admit I'm not sure how they behave... |
| 23:36:12 | conando | Llorean: that was what i so blatantly shorted to "dynamically reserve/reclaim memory" ;) sorry for not being exact |
| 23:36:38 | Llorean | conando: That's a lot more than that, it introduces new interactions between subsystems that would *drastically* complicate things. |
| 23:37:01 | saratoga211 | it seems like having a way to request memory from the playback buffer would be better though |
| 23:37:03 | GodEater | actually just thinking about it makes my head hurt |
| 23:37:03 | amiconn | saratoga211: Problem with jpeg is that it also needs a buffer to decode into |
| 23:37:15 | Llorean | It'd probably be best if Plugins could just query "How much data in the plugin buffer is "consumed" or marked as used, how much is the largest contiguous chunk, and can i have that chunk or if it's larger than X, a chunk of X size?" |
| 23:37:27 | JdGordon|w | i doubt picture flow would like having the data moved around... iirc MoB is moved around in the buffer when tracks are added/removed |
| 23:37:34 | conando | Llorean: i can imagine.. i'm still at the beginning of getting an idea how it all interacts together.. so i hope you can excuse me being such a greenhorn at the moment :) |
| 23:37:37 | | Join webguest30 [0] (n=52234150@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b4052f1b1a37f95f) |
| 23:37:47 | Llorean | JdGordon|w: But it'd have a buffer handle, wouldn't it? Meaning the handle would still be usable after the move? |
| 23:37:54 | JdGordon|w | yes |
| 23:38:21 | | Quit webguest30 (Client Quit) |
| 23:38:30 | Llorean | So I bet Pictureflow could be made to work with a buffer handle. Say, ask for 4MB of additional data, or if that much hasn't been consumed by playback yet, then "the largest contiguous chunk you can give me" or something? |
| 23:39:04 | eigma | HAHAHA it's so broken it's not even funny |
| 23:39:20 | GodEater | then why do you laugh ? :) |
| 23:39:42 | eigma | to keep from crying ;) |
| 23:40:37 | saratoga211 | looking at the jpeg spec, i think we could limit the decode buffer to just a little larger then the buffer needed for the resized album art pretty easily |
| 23:40:39 | conando | lol |
| 23:40:45 | Llorean | Bagder: Would there be a lot of hate if someone did come up with a way for plugins to "Buffer" data for their own use? |
| 23:41:07 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF5373.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:41:12 | Bagder | if done fine, I can't see why. |
| 23:41:17 | GodEater | I can't imagine why there would be - since it's a neat way to do it |
| 23:41:18 | conando | that would be cool i guess.. but if there would be hate.. then better not |
| 23:41:20 | Bagder | but I have a hard time to see how it can be done nicely |
| 23:41:32 | linuxstb | Doesn't that imply holes will be start appearing in the buffer? IIUC, that's currently avoided. |
| 23:41:42 | Bagder | exactly my thinking |
| 23:41:54 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@216-020-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 23:42:29 | eigma | um |
| 23:42:31 | eigma | it's working |
| 23:42:35 | eigma | I am listneing to music on my m:robe |
| 23:42:44 | eigma | !!!!!!!!!! |
| 23:42:48 | GodEater | is that time for a "Gentlemen" email then ? :) |
| 23:42:48 | conando | not to rain on anyones parade but... while this is not implemented nicely (which, don't get me wrong, is something that is _always_ preferable) ..would it at least be possible for picture flow as a plugin to somehow "schedule" a song to be played and then immediately exit? |
| 23:42:50 | JdGordon|w | like i said before... iirc handles are moved around in the buffer to avoid gaps which may cause problems |
| 23:42:52 | Bagder | congratulations eigma! |
| 23:42:58 | JdGordon|w | and well done eigma ! |
| 23:42:59 | eigma | not decoding yet |
| 23:43:02 | Llorean | linuxstb: Aren't codecs, in a way, a hole though? After rebuffer? |
| 23:43:09 | eigma | just reading 20 seconds worth of PCM from HDD |
| 23:43:13 | | Quit InMyMind () |
| 23:43:18 | JdGordon|w | Llorean: codec is put on before the file |
| 23:43:23 | Bagder | conando: sure that should be possible |
| 23:43:39 | GodEater | eigma, I think that's still worthy of a "Gentlemen" email. In the tradtional format if you please :) |
| 23:43:43 | | Join webguest42 [0] (n=458fa016@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-45408a839afe5f5f) |
| 23:43:43 | Llorean | JdGordon|w: Yeah, but if you have like, 5 Oggs, 1 mp3, and 1 Ogg, doesn't the Ogg codec stick around on buffer until that last one is played? |
| 23:43:47 | * | Llorean thought it did. |
| 23:43:58 | * | JdGordon|w doesnt know |
| 23:43:58 | eigma | GodEater: can you show me a sample? |
| 23:44:04 | JdGordon|w | lostlogic: Nico_P ? |
| 23:44:29 | saratoga211 | regarding holes in the buffer, we could limit plugins to requesting memory from the end of the buffer only, and simply force a rebuffer whenever they do it? |
| 23:44:35 | Llorean | JdGordon|w: Anyway, yeah, the "Plugin BufferData" or whatever would have to be moved to the beginning before rebuffering, I'd imagine, so plugins would have to be happy with moved data. |
| 23:44:37 | conando | Bagder: oh cool.. because as of now picture flow works quite nicely when no song is being played.. but if you select a song simply nothing happens.. and it would be nice to be able to use it at least in it's current state |
| 23:44:38 | Nico_P | JdGordon|w: yes? |
| 23:44:39 | JdGordon|w | eigma: ill forward it to you |
| 23:44:39 | saratoga211 | i can't imagine plugins are going to do this very often |
| 23:45:01 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 23:45:02 | GodEater | http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2002-05/0016.shtml |
| 23:45:06 | GodEater | eigma - there's one |
| 23:45:10 | Llorean | saratoga211: In my opinion, they should be limited to "asking what's 'free or already consumed' then claiming a portion of that" when they boot. |
| 23:45:16 | | Quit webguest42 (Client Quit) |
| 23:45:19 | JdGordon|w | bah, /me forwarded a bad one :p |
| 23:45:31 | | Join tedrock [0] (n=tedrock@d235-159-75.home1.cgocable.net) |
| 23:45:33 | eigma | hahaha |
| 23:45:33 | eigma | lovely |
| 23:45:34 | JdGordon|w | Nico_P: Llorean's q above |
| 23:45:35 | | Join George_G [0] (n=458fa016@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7c18275890853871) |
| 23:45:38 | eigma | I'll write one up right away |
| 23:45:47 | | Quit midkay ("Leaving") |
| 23:45:49 | | Quit davina (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:45:52 | saratoga211 | Llorean: wouldn't that be a problem though, since a plugin could fail if you had a full buffer, but work a few minutes later once the buffer ran down? |
| 23:46:03 | eigma | to rockbox-dev? |
| 23:46:04 | Llorean | Nico_P: If you have 5 oggs, two MP3s, and another Ogg on buffer, the Vorbis codec exists on the buffer once, or more than once? |
| 23:46:15 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@194.46.191.24) |
| 23:46:34 | Nico_P | Llorean: IIRC it exists more than once but I'm not 100% sure |
| 23:46:41 | saratoga211 | i thought we had 1MB of space allocated that holds whatever codec is currently in use? |
| 23:46:53 | Llorean | saratoga211: Currently jpeg fails and says "You have to stop playback." If they can't get enough, have them prompt the user to perform a manual rebuffer, but only do it if they need more than is available, *and* the user confirms it? |
| 23:47:02 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:47:49 | saratoga211 | Llorean: seems like it'd be better to just have the codec force a rebuffer if needed. in the case of jpeg it'd only ever happen once per boot anyway |
| 23:48:03 | saratoga211 | rather then make people rebuffer manually every time they reboot if they want album art |
| 23:48:30 | GodEater | eigma, rockbox users I think |
| 23:49:05 | conando | yes.. it would be a weird question for a "normal" user i guess ;) |
| 23:50:37 | | Quit George_G ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 23:50:52 | amiconn | Imo playback is still the main purpose of rockbox. If a plugin cannot work while music is playing because it'd need more than just the plugin buffer, it should just throw a message and exit, like jpeg currently does |
| 23:51:48 | Llorean | amiconn: I don't see why it shouldn't be able to claim a part of the plugin buffer, if there's some free. |
| 23:51:57 | Llorean | Er compressed buffer |
| 23:52:02 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF5373.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:52:29 | saratoga211 | well if we don't want to let plugins work from the playback buffer, we could just limit plugins that need more buffer to flash targets and targets with 64+MB of RAM |
| 23:52:30 | Llorean | And/or if you stop playback, launch the plugin, then resume playback, why the plugin shouldn't only be using a finite amount of the compressed buffer rather than "all" |
| 23:52:57 | eigma | sent :) |
| 23:53:06 | eigma | now I'm off to a well-deserved movie night off |
| 23:53:16 | JdGordon|w | but but... |
| 23:53:19 | JdGordon|w | you cant go! |
| 23:53:21 | eigma | lol |
| 23:53:23 | JdGordon|w | your not finished!! |
| 23:53:25 | amiconn | Unnecessarily complex. And how would you resume playback from within the plugin? |
| 23:53:44 | eigma | another day, another day. |
| 23:53:48 | eigma | cheers everyone |
| 23:53:48 | kugel | IMO the audio buffer is too high for flash targets (at least on my e200) |
| 23:53:50 | Llorean | amiconn: You can already do that from within Jewels |
| 23:53:51 | eigma | thanks for the help |
| 23:54:13 | | Quit eigma () |
| 23:54:19 | Llorean | amiconn: There's a "Playback" menu that gives you limited controls over volume, skipping, pause/stop/resume. |
| 23:54:24 | kugel | since flash targets doesn't benefit greatly from MoB, the RAM could be used for plugins like jpeg viewer and pictureflow |
| 23:54:29 | conando | hm i'm with Llorean on this one... |
| 23:54:51 | saratoga211 | kugel: yes a smaller audio buffer on the sansa would be nice, since it would probably help with that annoying flash memory access noise bug in sandisk's hardware |
| 23:55:00 | Llorean | kugel: Saying that isn't beneficial. A proper solution would benefit flash targets too anyway, so why not search for one? |
| 23:55:07 | conando | kugel that's where i'm coming from.. |
| 23:55:30 | JdGordon|w | saratoga211: wouldnt it make it worse? |
| 23:55:46 | conando | i guess he was being sarcastic :) |
| 23:55:47 | kugel | I think MoB is great, but only for hdd-based targets |
| 23:56:04 | kugel | can't the buffer for flash targets just reduced? |
| 23:56:15 | Bagder | I think mob makes sense on all targets |
| 23:56:28 | Bagder | but for flash targets, plugin buffer sizes etc could be raised |
| 23:56:44 | conando | kugel: i guess saratoga is somehow right.. i didn't think of the flash memory access noise myself |
| 23:56:57 | kugel | Bagder: Agreed |
| 23:57:23 | pixelma | not for all "flash targets" though... have to remember... ;) |
| 23:57:24 | kugel | conando: I don't even know if I ever heard this noise |
| 23:57:32 | conando | it's quite annoying and especially noticeable if for example the picture flow plugin rebuilds it's AA cache.. :-( |
| 23:58:04 | conando | kugel: really?! uh then consider yourself lucky! ;) |
| 23:58:33 | saratoga211 | JdGordon|w: Its barely noticible now, i think if buffering didn't last 3-4 seconds I would never notice it |
| 23:58:38 | pixelma | I meant "remind" people |
| 23:58:41 | * | JdGordon|w doesnt hear the noise either |
| 23:59:01 | saratoga211 | of course you'd still get the same amount of noise, it'd just be a lot harder to hear if it only lasted 1 second |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).