#rockbox 2008-01-16

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#rockbox log for 2008-01-16

00:01:46		Quit BigBambi (Remote closed the connection)
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00:05:42		Quit Rob2222 ()
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00:08:18	Brian7X	i shall soon return
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00:31:15	scorche\|w	Rob2222: connection issues?
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00:33:45	Rob2222	nah, tuning miranda
00:34:28	scorche\|w	Rob2222: if you could, can you finish tuning it and then come back after? :)
00:34:56	JdGordon\|w	no such thing as finish tuning miranda
00:34:57		Join tapiocapudding [0] (n=chatzill@208.248.14.207)
00:35:19	tapiocapudding	hey umm how can i get my ipod to connect to the computer and just charge but not do anything else
00:35:48	tapiocapudding	this seems to happen sometimes when i'm in the apps menu
00:35:50	Rob2222	o set it up offline, dont know, why it's going online all the time. normally it shouldnt go on
00:36:20		Quit linuxstb_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
00:36:40	soap	tapiocapudding, I believe this is described in the manual - but press and hold "Menu" while inserting the USB cable.
00:37:40	tapiocapudding	ok, thanks. I didn't see it in the manual though
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00:54:10	asn	Is the current playing track supposed to stop when I want to start pacbox?
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00:57:56		Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
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00:59:44	einhirn	Has anyone ever tried to write to "MAS_D0_MPEG_FRAME_COUNT" as to "keep it running" since it doesn't wrap?
01:00
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01:01:03	einhirn	Maybe that would enable us to place the "Track Changed" event and subsequent loading of new Replaygain settings more exactly to the actual Trackchange in Playback (ie, what the user hears)
01:01:48	einhirn	(The Idea is: Keep Track of how many frames there are to the end of the track in memory and how many of them the MAS already has decoded)
01:03:21	einhirn	Hmm - got to go to bed now, just had to tell someone that thought i developed in the last hour(s)...
01:03:40	einhirn	Even if it is only the "Logbot".
01:04:27	einhirn	bye
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01:10:57	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:34:20	Motosuwa	hmmm...the simulator can't find any songs
01:34:26	Motosuwa	this shouldn't happen, should?
01:38:02	scorche	do you have songs in the sim's directory?
01:38:11	Motosuwa	yes, one song
01:39:08	Motosuwa	ah, found it
01:40:28	Motosuwa	btw, which usb logo is the one used on nano? 128x37x16, 128x37x16 or another one?
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02:25:19	JETC-	http://pastebin.com/db7e2c1c
02:25:26	JETC-	Anyone know why I'm getting this error?
02:25:34	JETC-	I'm trying to build a sim for x5
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02:30:32	JETC-	Nvm...found the answer in previous logs :3
02:31:14	JETC-	Posting errors here seems to be more useful than putting in pastebin it seems since the logs here are archived and cached into google search as well
02:31:15	JETC-	:3
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03:20:21	countrymonkey	Is it possible that rbutil can have a new release in its current state? Rbutil allows voicebuilding and talkclip generation, both being difficult since speex voices were implimented.
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03:43:17	krazykit	countrymonkey, a new version of rbutil will be released when those working on it think it's ready.
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03:52:29	crazy_bus	I want to get a cheap player for rockbox. The sandisk sansa e and c series both work with rockbox but have different features with their commercial firmware. So I'm wondering if I will be able to do anything different on a more expensive model when using rockbox besides a bigger screen?
03:53:33	Llorean	Not really.
03:55:09	Viaken	What do you mean they have different features with their commercial firmware?
03:55:12	goffa	lol.. store more if it has more storage :)
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03:56:09	Viaken	The only thing I know of is USB doesn't work, but it's really transparent. You plug it in, the bootloader pulls up the factory firmware to do syncing. You unplug it, rockbox starts again.
03:56:39	crazy_bus	the e series is meant to do more things in the product description. Like record radio. I was wondering if this was just a firmware feature so it would be essentially the same as a c series when using rockbox
03:57:47	Viaken	Rockbox can record radio.
03:58:01	Viaken	I have an e series.
03:58:05	Llorean	The recording on the Sandisk players is pretty miserable anyway. They're pretty restrictive on the sample rate.
03:58:52	Viaken	22something hertz, IIRC.
03:59:09	Llorean	22050 hertz.
03:59:20	jhMikeS	Llorean: They're a bit more restrictive than they have to be. It might be possible to coax 32kHz for FM quality.
03:59:30	Llorean	jhMikeS: That's good at least
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04:00
04:00:09	Viaken	I meant khz...brain's out to lunch, apparently.
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04:01:25	crazybus	my internet just dropped out for some reason. So I missed any replies
04:02:13	countrymonkey	Rb can do all that the sandisk firmware can do, like record radio. The only thing it cannot do is usb.
04:05:39	crazybus	does rockbox work well on the sandisk sansa's. Or is it better to get a different player to try its other featrues (emulation etc)
04:06:46	jhMikeS	it works on sansas quite well imo
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04:08:09	crazybus	would you recommend I buy a c200 or e200 for rockbox. (I have a c100 at the moment but it doesn't support rockbox)
04:08:27	Viaken	Works great on my e200.
04:08:55	jhMikeS	If a tiny player is important, c200. e200 has a much nicer display and would be better if video has any importance.
04:09:19	crazybus	is video worth watching on a e200?
04:10:40	soap	cool_walking_, , buschel - reloaded v10 of the Device Disable patch - can easily spin the scroll wheel at such a speed that no scrolling happens.
04:10:56	jhMikeS	it's pretty decent since it's a good screen on a compact flash player
04:10:57	soap	again, cool_walking_, not the fastest speed, not the slowest speed -
04:11:00	countrymonkey	I don't know. Make sure you buy a v1. It should not say, "audible support" on it's box. Some are mislabeled though.
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04:11:16	cool_walking_	Hrm.. I just started a battery bench about an hour ago.. Do you care more about that or this bug?
04:12:10	soap	buschel is the man to ask that. You have 12 hours max left in your battery bench, so ask him in 12 ;)
04:12:49	countrymonkey	And some say v2 but are really v1s. The only true way to tell is going and getting the firmware version. I don't know how to do it but some here do.
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04:20:07	crazybus	sorry. I forgot to say thanks for everyones answers :)
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04:30:35	countrymonkey	どいたしまして your welcome
04:30:55	scorche	>_>
04:31:09	cool_walking_	Aah yes thats the one
04:31:20	cool_walking_	I keep accidentally doing >.> instead of >_>
04:31:45	cool_walking_	or is it the other way around?
04:31:54	cool_walking_	oh crap.. this is #rockbox
04:32:14	countrymonkey	What is >_> supposed to mean?
04:32:22	krazykit	please stay on topic
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04:32:48	eigma	zomg UTF-8
04:34:11	countrymonkey	what
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04:53:53	crazybus	this wiki page http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Port says microsdhd works on the e200 with rockbox. But the c200 page doesn't mention it. Does it?
04:54:01	countrymonkey	Rasher, is there a possibility you will modify your translator to be able to 1) make new langs and 2) do rbutil translation? Even 1 would I think make more translations availible.
04:55:04	countrymonkey	はい yes
04:55:22	Llorean	crazybus: It's suppose to.
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04:56:09	crazybus	one final question. Is the simulator only for windows. As the link here is only for it http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaC200Port
04:56:41	krazykit	countrymonkey, i believe there are tools to translate the files that rbutil uses (since it's qt and would use standard qt tools)
04:56:42	countrymonkey	You can build simulators for anything. The prebuilt ones at rasher.dk or windows only.
04:57:20	countrymonkey	I forgot about linguist but you are right.
04:58:48	crazybus	thanks again krazykit
05:00
05:01:34	VivianC	Hello all. My name is Chris and I just signed up for TWiki access. Directions say I need to come here and introduce myself. I have a Sansa E260 and I'm working on a couple themes.
05:04:55		Quit Horscht ("We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents")
05:05:22	countrymonkey	What is your name? I will add you.
05:05:37	countrymonkey	I mean your full name.
05:05:39	VivianC	Thanks. It is Chris Padar in the application.
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05:07:02	countrymonkey	done
05:07:25	VivianC	Thank you. I'm looking forward to having someting to share.
05:07:44	countrymonkey	I was the same way until rasher signed me up. :)
05:08:42	VivianC	I have been following the project for years but just recently got the Sansa. Rockbox support was a key requirement this time. :)
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05:09:15	countrymonkey	I started in 2007. Is your sansa your first rockboxable mp3 player?
05:09:22	VivianC	Yes
05:09:47	VivianC	I got it around Thanksgiving and started playing.
05:10:17	countrymonkey	I just realized, I started on 1/07/07 at 8:00 PSt. It is now 1/15/08 at 8:00 PSt. I have been using rb for exactly a year now!
05:10:42	VivianC	Missed your RB birthday. :)
05:11:07	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:11:44	crazybus	VivianC: I'm thinking of getting a new sansa since my c100 doesn't work with rockbox. How are you liking your one with rockbox?
05:12:13	VivianC	I really like it. In fact, I just bought a second one for my wife.
05:12:18	countrymonkey	You are lucky to have a sansa. You have rec and radio. I have an ipod with krap recording and no radio at all. I got it for a xmas gift.
05:12:53	countrymonkey	ow much are those sansas anyway?
05:13:25	VivianC	you can find a 4 gig refurb for between $55 and $80 US.
05:13:28	Llorean	I bought a c250 for $16. So you can sometimes find them really cheap.
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05:13:50	VivianC	$16? I'm shopping in the wrong places.
05:14:14	Llorean	It was at woot.com one day
05:14:22	countrymonkey	My friend needs a c280.
05:14:29	countrymonkey	If such a thing exists.
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05:15:45	VivianC	My E260 was $50 on Woot
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05:16:24	countrymonkey	Where?
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05:16:50	VivianC	woot.com, a kind of fire-sale type of site.
05:17:00	crazybus	are mp3 players cheaper where you live. Because even with currency conversion prices are much more expensive in australia
05:17:25	goffa	woot is interesting
05:17:30	goffa	1 item/day
05:17:35	goffa	when its gone its gone
05:17:51	countrymonkey	So woot is like ebay?
05:17:55	goffa	i heard they have a brick and mortar store... never understood how that would opperate
05:17:56	VivianC	Must be cheaper here. They almost seem to give some away.
05:17:58	goffa	no
05:18:07	goffa	woot has 1 item PERIOD
05:18:09	Llorean	crazybus: MP3 players are quite cheap in the US, overall
05:18:14	goffa	they might have 1000 of them that day
05:18:29	goffa	one day it could be a vacuum, the next a camera, etc
05:18:35	VivianC	Woot does one iten per day, as goffa said, until it sells out.
05:18:41	scorche	goffa: technically, they have 3....but this si getting offtopic
05:18:42	goffa	more like home shopping network
05:18:57	scorche	1 "item", 1 wine, 1 shirt
05:19:06	goffa	ah
05:19:38	countrymonkey	When it's sold you wait till the next day?
05:19:39		Part Viaken ("Rockbox...well..rocks!")
05:19:52	scorche	countrymonkey: yes....google for more info...
05:20:40	VivianC	So they had the E260 back in November for a day and then again on1-7 (when I bought the second one).
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05:21:10	VivianC	I've also seen Buy.com carry refurbs for a bit more.
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05:23:53	VivianC	good night all, I'm off to read the Twiki tutorial.
05:24:16	countrymonkey	awf widersehen
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06:00
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06:15:24	magenpie	i just rolled back firmware on sansa c250 so that i could use rockbox
06:15:52	magenpie	one problem: seems to be hanging after i select initialize database
06:16:26	magenpie	says building database...63 found but nothing happens
06:17:50	cool_walking_	Do you have free space left on the disk?
06:18:06	crazy_bus	I'm using the sandisk c200 simulator in wine but I can't access everything. The arrow keys work but space doesn't do anything
06:18:37	cool_walking_	crazy_bus: Why in Wine?? Why not just compile a native version?
06:19:12	magenpie	i haven't even put one song on it! lol
06:19:20	crazy_bus	cool_walking_: I'm using a really old pc while my proper one is being fixed and I cant be bothered to install mingw
06:20:10	crazy_bus	if I did that you I be able to select things?
06:20:31	Llorean	Why do you need mingw?
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06:20:50	cool_walking_	magenpie: okay I'm told that usually this is caused by corrupt tags in one or more of your music files. Usually people get around it by deleting all tracks off the player, then copying them back in chunks until you find the bad file.
06:21:12	magenpie	oh ok...i don't want those tracks anyway...ty
06:21:19	magenpie	i'll give it a try
06:21:27	crazy_bus	mingw to compile it. Unless their is a linux binary for rockbox
06:22:06	scorche	are you referring to the sims or rockbox?
06:22:13	crazy_bus	actually I read it wrong. You don't need that.
06:22:13	crazy_bus	sims
06:23:16	magenpie	hmmmm...nothing is showing in the music folder
06:23:29	magenpie	i'm in linux
06:23:35	magenpie	brb
06:28:43	magenpie	i wonder why i can't see the files
06:29:08	goffa	you probably have show playlists enabled
06:29:09	goffa	or something
06:29:14	goffa	instead of show all files
06:29:33	magenpie	where?
06:29:55	goffa	um
06:30:04	magenpie	i can see the files in my e280
06:30:17	goffa	settings > general > show files
06:30:19	goffa	pick all
06:30:28	cool_walking_	settings -> general -> file view -> show files
06:30:48	goffa	thanks cool_walking_
06:30:54	goffa	i missed one step
06:31:12	magenpie	i did select that
06:31:18	magenpie	let me look at it again
06:31:35	cool_walking_	Is it set to "all" ?
06:31:48	magenpie	one sec
06:32:13	crazy_bus	why does the sandisk e200 get 16 hours with rockbox when the c200 gets 5. I thought they were essentially the same
06:32:49	magenpie	all
06:33:05	magenpie	but how does that affect the player when it's connected to computer?
06:33:19	cool_walking_	It doesn't. It only affects rockbox
06:33:26	magenpie	ah
06:33:36	cool_walking_	Do you mean you can't see the files on the computer?
06:33:47	magenpie	yes
06:33:52	goffa	ah.. i misread
06:33:58	goffa	linux or windows?
06:34:08	magenpie	linux
06:34:20	goffa	what happens when you look at rockbox as root?
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06:34:27	goffa	er your player
06:34:37	magenpie	but let me say this...i selected all but in rockbox when i go to files, music, nothing appears either
06:35:01	cool_walking_	Sounds like there are actually no files there
06:35:02	goffa	i just want to rule out permissions
06:35:12	magenpie	hmmmm
06:35:55	cool_walking_	If they don't appear in Rockbox, you're either looking in the wrong place, or they physically are not there
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06:36:17	cool_walking_	That is, when you have "show files" set to "all"
06:43:14	magenpie	there are songs on this player! they're playing in orig firmware
06:44:53	cool_walking_	Are you looking in "Files" from the main menu in Rockbox?
06:45:25	magenpie	music
06:45:44	magenpie	oh, sorry...
06:45:53	magenpie	files from main menu in rockbox, yes
06:46:54	cool_walking_	What's in there?
06:47:13	magenpie	nothing is listed
06:47:21	cool_walking_	nothing at all?
06:47:25	magenpie	but i can play them from sansa firmware
06:47:28	magenpie	nothing at all
06:47:32	cool_walking_	at the very least there should be a folder called ".rockbox"
06:47:45	cool_walking_	if not, you haven't set the "show files" setting to "all"
06:47:45	magenpie	there is a folder called .rockbox
06:48:01	cool_walking_	anything else?
06:48:04	magenpie	i'm saying i don't see any music files in music
06:48:06	magenpie	one sec
06:49:05	magenpie	.rockbox, .rockbox (2), MUSIC, PHOTO, PLAYLISTS, RECORD, SYSTEM, tmp, etc
06:51:15	JETC-	Just a simple simulation build question
06:51:16	cool_walking_	I don't know anything about the e280 original firmware. Did you use Windows Explorer to copy-paste your music to the player, or some special software?
06:51:25		Quit crazy_bus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:51:38	JETC-	After I build the simulation...could I just do a make zip and package the simulator contents like that?
06:52:58		Part toffe82
06:56:08	magenpie	i can't see those music files in windows either
06:56:24	magenpie	how can i get rid of them if i can't see them??? lol
06:57:25	JETC-	Do you have windows explorer to actually show hidden files?
06:58:26		Quit eigma ()
06:59:08	magenpie	let me see
07:00
07:00:19	magenpie	yes
07:01:01	cool_walking_	Right-click on each of those folders (MUSIC, PHOTO, etc.) and select "properties". This should tell you for certain if there are any files in there, under "Contains". If there are files in there, the "Size:" should be greater than 0, also.
07:01:12	magenpie	k
07:01:52	magenpie	says 0
07:02:07	magenpie	so, what am i listening to?
07:02:17	cool_walking_	Well then there definitely are no files in that folder. Try looking in the other folders.
07:02:24	magenpie	ok, i'll drag a new track in and see
07:02:34	magenpie	there are files in the other folders
07:02:42	magenpie	but no PHOTOS
07:03:13	cool_walking_	I'd say the music would probably be under SYSTEM somewhere
07:03:31	magenpie	i'll check
07:08:47	magenpie	ok...is working now
07:09:16	magenpie	i guess rockbox didn't find a track so the initialize database didn't go anywhere
07:09:24	JETC-	Anyone know how I can distribute the sim I just compiled? :3
07:09:30	magenpie	ty for your help
07:10:08	cool_walking_	I have no idea if make zip will work, but did you try it?
07:10:38	JETC-	Yeah...didn't work
07:10:40	JETC-	:3
07:10:57	JETC-	Just zipped everything that's needed by rockbox to run normally
07:11:05	JETC-	Not really the simulator
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07:11:54	cool_walking_	Well, I don't have a build environment here, but I think the only files you need are rockboxui.exe, sdl.dll, and archos/
07:12:02	Llorean	JETC-: Make zip really ought to work. "make install" just does a make zip then extracts it to a specific location, if I understand correctly
07:12:25	JdGordon	anyone else think J Mac on the tracker is our favorite resident moron?
07:12:56	JETC-	Well, I'm checking out rasher's sims and looking what files are needed
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07:17:36	JETC-	Well I don't have the sdl.dll which rasher has.
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07:18:29	cool_walking_	You must have it if you can run the sim
07:18:33	cool_walking_	It just might be somewhere else
07:18:40	cool_walking_	probably in c:\windows\system32
07:19:02	cool_walking_	you can always grab it from libsdl.org anyway
07:19:55	cool_walking_	or you can use rashers version
07:20:01	cool_walking_	sdl.dll doesn't change
07:22:53	JETC-	Yeah, I'm sure I do but like when I do a make on the folder. It doesn't conveniently put in the same directory ;o
07:23:31	JETC-	Ok, it seems to be working
07:24:41	JETC-	Now, hopefully this helps the person making the themes for x5 :3
07:26:29	Llorean	The best thing you can do for themes is recommend people use the official build, or a build using only the few viewports patches, since that way they're unlikely to be broken again soon
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07:29:52	JETC-	Yeah...I just patched it with the viewports patch in flyspray with multifonts and customlist
07:29:53	JETC-	:3
07:30:12	JETC-	Will the viewports list replace the customlist?
07:30:33	Llorean	Customlist will be replaced, yes.
07:30:52	Llorean	And there's no guarantee at all multifont functionality will work in the same way, or support as many, fonts as the current patch does.
07:34:50	JETC-	Well, as of right now, multifonts patch seems to be kept alive nicely by tdtooke and custom list by kugel.
07:35:08	JETC-	So, I'm sure it'll still be handy in a few months at least.
07:36:10	Llorean	What do you mean?
07:37:06	Llorean	"customlist" should've already been closed.
07:37:09	Llorean	What tracker entry is it?
07:37:20	JdGordon	it was closed?
07:37:20	JETC-	5899
07:37:38	Llorean	JdGordon: Well someone ought to close the old non-viewports one
07:37:49	Llorean	Right?
07:37:56	JdGordon	oh... for some reason i read shouldnt have
07:38:29	JdGordon	meh, it can wait for mine to get finished before closing.. its not really doing any harm staying open
07:38:53	Llorean	Well it does in the sense that people think it's going to stick around.
07:38:59	JETC-	Maybe a bit more documentation on the viewports list? I'm not a wps expert I'm not sure what's the condition of the viewports lists at
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07:47:11	zule	anyone have a link to ZenFirm.exe?
07:47:40	scorche	i dont recognize that as having anything to do with rockbox..
07:48:39	zule	it's to decode ZEN firmware, to further allow a port of rockbox, thus being related enough for me to ask here
07:48:41	zule	:D
07:48:47	zule	but I take that as a no
07:49:04	zule	it's mentioned at the rockbox forum, and google nor searches of the site are finding it
07:50:59	scorche	ah...you might be waiting around a bit for an answer then...i have no clue :)
07:52:54	zule	tis all good, I'll keep digging
07:53:23	zule	just thinking of helping take a look at the ZEN platform now that I have one and trying to get as far as other already had a while back
08:00
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08:34:29	markun	scorche: just saw in #gigabeat that you've bought a F40. Congratulations :)
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08:35:04	scorche	markun: not yet...tomorrow sometime, most likely
08:35:19	scorche	i dont knwo what i am going to use it for besides another brick for the tower, but /shrug
08:45:10	amiconn	markun: Btw, how is rockbox battery runtime on gigabeat compared to OF?
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08:47:04	markun	amiconn: I believe they are about the same, 16-18 hours or something.
08:48:06	amiconn	But no one measured so far?
08:48:18	markun	although mine lasts a bit longer because I changed the 830mAh battery for a 1000mAh one
08:48:50	markun	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatRuntime
08:49:24	markun	There were some OF runtime tests at mygigabeat.com from before rockbox was ported
08:49:39	markun	one guy got 19 hours, but noone was able to reproduce that
08:51:45	markun	I'm trying to find the forum posts..
08:53:01		Quit scorche (" blarg")
08:53:05	amiconn	Quite a lot of variation, given that most benchmarks were run using mp3
08:53:42	markun	yes, a lot
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08:54:32	markun	but the highest ones are with a new battery
08:54:35	amiconn	(even when not counting those stating an upgraded battery)
08:56:18	markun	I don't understand why the overwrote the battery benchmark file..
08:58:34	markun	claiming over 19 hours and then linking to an existing battery benchmark with 15..
08:59:00	*	amiconn still wonders what's up with cpu scaling on gigabeat
09:00
09:00:10	markun	me too. We've tried a lot, but everything had a negative effect
09:00:23	markun	and the runtime is not bad as it is without scaling anyway
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09:02:18	amiconn	Did someone test power consumption or runtime without cpu sleep?
09:03:26	amiconn	I can think a a few explanations why cpu scaling doesn't improve runtime, but all of them are not very plausible
09:04:38	amiconn	(1) cpu sleep is so damn efficient that consumption drops to practically zero when sleeping. (2) cpu power consumption is a very small part of the total power consumption of the device. (3) the cpu does somehow implement a very clever auto-scaling
09:05:18	hcs	(4) magic
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10:22:17	pondlife	Hmm, does JdGordon's message on http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8464 mean that we now have a PSP port? :)
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10:26:49	GodEater	Competition, How many ways can we come up with to do this : http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14969.0
10:27:01	GodEater	prizes for shortest solution, and most complicated
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10:27:46	GodEater	and for most entertaining critique of my submission :)
10:30:37	linuxstb	Shouldn't you do the strrchr on newfilename?
10:31:04	*	GodEater suspects a segfault would happen if you did that
10:31:43	linuxstb	Why? I mean after you copy oldfilename into it.
10:31:54	GodEater	ah
10:31:57	GodEater	well you didn't say that ;)
10:32:01	linuxstb	You also need to check the return value of strrchr.
10:32:13	linuxstb	(it could be NULL)
10:32:15	GodEater	well technically the way I did it you don't even need newfilename
10:32:36	GodEater	you could just output oldfilename after you've set the '\0' into it
10:32:49	GodEater	and yes, strrchr should be checked
10:32:52	GodEater	but I did say it was dirty
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10:36:34	*	Zagor is updating the web+mail server
10:36:48	Rhe	hi there.. is there a guide which can show me how the controls change when using rockbox? i got the firmware off of that program with the GUI
10:37:03	Rhe	h340 btw
10:37:16	petur	yes, it is called the manual
10:37:23	GodEater	"that program with the GUI" <−− could you be less descriptive
10:37:44	Rhe	man.. typical not helping flamers
10:37:47	Rhe	let's see
10:38:03	Rhe	hmm deleted the program
10:38:14	petur	what is not helpfull? I point you to the manual
10:38:28	Rhe	yeah the manual i read when rockbox for iriver first came out
10:38:32	Rhe	2 years ago was it?
10:38:42	Rhe	and i couldn't use it because of the lack of controls description
10:38:50	Mouser_X	petur and GodEater != flamers. I can assure you that your interpretation is entirely flawed.
10:38:54	conando	lol
10:39:12	petur	maybe the manual got updated since the last 2 years?
10:39:25	Mouser_X	Really?!!! Impossible!
10:39:27	GodEater	petur, I've heard a rumour that is has been
10:39:38	GodEater	just once or twice...
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10:40:01	*	Mouser_X = more of a flamer than petur or GodEater.
10:40:04	Rhe	oh great.. now i can't open the rockbox.org
10:40:20	Zagor	Rhe: I'm updateing the web server. back up in a few minutes.
10:40:20	petur	hahaha Zagor is the man!
10:40:39	Rhe	well forget about it.. i haven't still learned from years of experience that people in coding communities are no help at all
10:40:46	Rhe	i'll figure it out one way or the other
10:41:34	Mouser_X	Rhe: They did help. You seem to be impatient.
10:41:53	Mouser_X	The manual will be available in a few minutes.
10:42:00	petur	Rhe: if nobody read the manual and just asked here, life would be bad here...
10:42:11	Zagor	web server is back up
10:45:08	conando	so i guess you consider the sheer existence of rockbox in the first place to be not helpfull too? ;)
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11:42:33	Bagder	Total Members: 15009
11:42:46	Bagder	on the forums
11:43:57	markun	wow
11:44:13	Bagder	pretty amazing number
11:44:20	petur	and that is just people who bother to register there...
11:44:36	markun	and 3329 people on the rockbox map
11:45:46	markun	would unique hostnames/ip's in the download statistics tell us something about the total amount of rockbox users?
11:46:09	desowin	and 42 stacks at ohloh ;)
11:46:15	cool_walking_	I've downloaded rockbox from at least 3 IPs
11:47:35	desowin	markun: also there're dynamic ips...
11:47:41	Bagder	during dec 2007, 201000 www.rockbox.org got unique visitors/IPs
11:47:53	Bagder	uh, in another order ;-)
11:47:59	cool_walking_	At least with dynamic IPs you could possibly sort them out by block
11:49:19	cool_walking_	Well ya gotta admit, it's a pretty awesome project.
11:49:26	Bagder	well, there are also proxies with a single IP that hide many users
11:49:36	cool_walking_	I don't think I've ever thanked you guys... so thanks.
11:51:34	desowin	go down the street and ask each portable player owner if he knows about rockbox ;)
11:53:02	markun	cool_walking_: you're welcome :)
11:56:07	*	cool_walking_ is sure there is a response to "you're welcome" in the "thank you" "you're welcome" .... protocol, but doesn'
11:56:17	cool_walking_	...know what it is
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12:29:37	broom	In the menu, there are two entries 'Write .cfg file'. Wouldn't it be better to explicitly tell what settings are saved (like it's done for sound and theme settings)? All settings and recording settings are just called '.cfg'
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13:26:01	einhirn	amiconn: you around?
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13:50:29	markun	I have a suggestion for the manual: a small border around the screenshots.
13:51:18	markun	The 'flipit' plugin has a white background, and on the white PDF that looks a bit weird
13:51:37	markun	same for snake2
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13:53:39	markun	with the new default theme the manual will look even more professional
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14:15:14	GodEater	has anyone enhanced wpbuild.pl enough to get it in as default theme yet ?
14:19:27	PaulJam	could someone close FS #8181 ?
14:20:42	petur	fixed?
14:21:50	*	petur learns to read the closure request reason
14:22:35	PaulJam	yes, last time i tried there was no spinup anymore. i don't know when it was fixed.
14:23:41	markun	stupid forum... always stopping to respond just when I try to submit a post :(
14:25:01	petur	I hope you saved what you were typing ;)
14:25:15	GodEater	seems to be responding ok to me....
14:25:30	GodEater	I can even see your latest post...
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14:54:50	markun	petur, GodEater: yes, I got though eventually. It was about 1 minute that the firefox icon was spinning.
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15:07:08	PaulJam	would it be possible to implement the possibility to change the delay between audio and video in mpegplayer in order to maintain a/v syncronisation? for the case that the original video is already out of sync.
15:07:45	GodEater	I'm not sure the word possibly appears in that sentence enough times :)
15:08:08	rvvs89	Wouldn't that be achievable in the video encoder?
15:09:35	petur	you need to reencode anyway - better to fix it there, no?
15:10:10	PaulJam	rvvs89: yes, but it would be nice to be able to do it on the target as well, in case you didn't notice while encoding.
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15:11:02	petur	and wouldn't any wrong sync change over time (match at begining and out of sync at the end)?
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15:11:36	Llorean	Yeah, it's rare that I see a video that's consistently X.Y seconds out of sync.
15:11:45	Llorean	Usually it's an issue of different rates on the audio and the video.
15:14:23	PaulJam	i often get out of sync audio (with a constant delay) when i encode .flv files with mencoder (sometimes it helps to use "-mc 0", but not always).
15:20:59	Llorean	I've never had sync issues with flv, but there's probably a wide range in those files. Also, I don't use mencoder.
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15:21:48	Llorean	But it seems making playback more complicated, and harder to improve/maintain, for poorly encoded files might not be a good idea. I can't imagine adding variable offset for audio making things simpler. ;)
15:23:23	LambdaCalculus37	Good morning!
15:23:32	markun	morning LambdaCalculus37 ;)
15:24:43	GodEater	does TeX ditch spaces that run over a line end ?
15:30:44	PaulJam	Llorean: which encoder do you use?
15:32:35	LambdaCalculus37	GodEater: IIRC I think it does.
15:32:40	LambdaCalculus37	I could be wrong, though.
15:32:46	Llorean	PaulJam: Just straight ffmpeg
15:33:17	GodEater	LambdaCalculus37: actually it doesn't - but evince is rendering the manual page wrong
15:33:18	Llorean	They use the same decoders and encoders, but the sync is probably handled a good deal more simply in ffmpeg since it doesn't have all the extras there used for playback, subtitles, etc.
15:33:25	GodEater	Acrobat renders it with the space
15:34:03	PaulJam	Llorean: thanks, i guess i'll give it a try.
15:34:13	Llorean	PaulJam: And again, feature requests belong in the tracker
15:34:20	Llorean	I'm almost positive I've told you this before.
15:34:22	GodEater	ah no - wrong again
15:34:30	GodEater	it just looks better in acroread
15:34:38	GodEater	there's still no space there either
15:34:39	GodEater	hmmm
15:35:46	PaulJam	well, i thought it would be better to ask here before spamming the tracker.
15:36:30	LambdaCalculus37	GodEater: Been a while since I wrote any TeX, anyway. :) But I should at least pick up LaTeX for helping with the manual.
15:36:35	Llorean	You were requesting a feature to be added, though
15:37:01	markun	I personally think it's ok to discuss feature requests in here
15:37:01	PaulJam	i asked it it would be possible.
15:37:15	Llorean	I mean, you phrased it as "is it physically possible" but it's not a leap to realize that audio or video could be delayed intentionally
15:37:16	markun	but I didn't make the rules of course
15:37:33	Llorean	markun: A feature request in the tracker can be rejected, and visible to future searches.
15:37:47	Llorean	People coming in here and making feature requests have no way to know which ones have been brought up in here before.
15:38:47	Llorean	It's just much preferable if they're actually requesting the feature that it go in the right place.
15:39:01	Llorean	It's only spam if it's been requested before.
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15:53:39	GodEater	is mkinfo.pl supposed to be created by something when building the manual ?
15:53:47	GodEater	I don't seem to have it in my source tree
15:56:09	PaulJam	should be in tools/
15:59:20	GodEater	the build process is hunting for it in manual/platforms
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16:04:55	pixelma	GodEater: no, that's a bug which has been there for a while but it doesn't hurt in the build process it's just confusing a bit
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16:06:16	GodEater	pixelma: ah ok
16:07:06	GodEater	pixelma: any ideas on how to fix this missing space issue I've found then? It's in Section 10.3.3 of the Gigabeat manual.
16:07:23	GodEater	In the PDF version there's no space between the "A" and the following word "button"
16:07:48	GodEater	actually, it's the same in the HTML version too, now that I come to check
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16:08:26	pixelma	the before mentioned bug came with the introduction of the rockbox-info.txt, IIRC
16:10:09	pixelma	GodEater: usually LaTeX behaves unexpectedly sometimes wrt spaces, especially when using \opt and \nopt
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16:13:53	broom	GodEater: shouldn't there be a "\" after \ButtonA? (The same as \dap\ ). The first space is eaten since it's the end of macro.
16:15:00	pixelma	"usually" is a bit exaggerated maybe but I'm not surprised
16:17:42	broom	pixelma: you corrected youself with "sometimes" :-)
16:17:48	pixelma	hmm found the spot now, I guess broom is right
16:24:40		Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:25:08	einhirn	I have a Patch in the Patch tracker - and I have updated the "svn diff" file four or five times now, each time adding a new comment with a new attachment.
16:25:55	einhirn	Is it possible to edit comments? Or just somehow just host the newest version of the patch with the tracker entry?
16:28:05	LambdaCalculus37	einhirn: What patch is it?
16:28:11	einhirn	#7747
16:28:46	LambdaCalculus37	This it? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7747?histring=7747
16:29:23	einhirn	I resolved a conflict with SVN yesterday and didn't produce a new diff file, so the latest Patch file might not apply cleanly...
16:29:30	einhirn	LambdaCalculus37: yes thats the one.
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16:31:32	rocko	for the new
16:31:35	rocko	umm
16:31:45	rocko	what was I going to say
16:31:54	einhirn	I'm reluctant to put the current patch file on a webpage - the webpage might not be available sometime in the future...
16:32:00	rocko	my ipod is dead. I upgraded to the new rockbox
16:32:05	rocko	like the latest build
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16:32:19	rocko	thing won't even turn over, I'm not really blaming it on the rockbox
16:32:29	rocko	but I'm suprised the thing doesn't even try
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16:34:23	pixelma	GodEater: yes adding the missing \ or {} there fixes it - the h100, h300 part has the same problem and the Ipod version doesn't use the correct button macro yet. I corrected it here locally and with your permission will commit it later ;)
16:34:37	pixelma	rocko: what kind of Ipod?
16:34:47	einhirn	rocko: Does the Manual http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodManualRestore help?
16:36:46	einhirn	Hmm - I've got to go, I think I'll just add another comment to the Patch tracker...
16:36:55	rocko	it's an ipod color
16:37:18	rocko	I'm just real sad
16:37:48	pixelma	have you tried resetting it?
16:41:41	rocko	I don't know how to do that
16:42:17	rocko	ohh I gotta plug it in
16:42:23	rocko	I don't have one of those with me
16:42:31	markun	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodFAQ#How_do_I_reset_the_iPod
16:43:03	pixelma	rocko: short but representative thread from the forums http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=7600.0 (as far as I know it's the same button combo for the Ipod Color)
16:44:28	rocko	<3
16:44:44	rocko	it's got the charging icon now
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16:47:58	pondlife	Aside from the "toggle hold, then hold MENU+SELECT" method, is there any other reset mechanism for an iPod nano?
16:48:43	pondlife	I've been given one which displays only a black screen (with backlight) and I suspect it really is a brick.
16:48:52	LambdaCalculus37	pondlife: No, I don't believe there is.
16:49:04	pondlife	OK, time to get out the hammers :/
16:49:12	*	LambdaCalculus37 hands one to pondlife
16:49:36	*	pondlife finds a surplus of Lithium ions was the problem.
16:50:05	PaulJam	pondlife: have you tried charging it for a few hours before performing the reset?
16:50:13	pondlife	Overnight on USB.
16:50:20	pondlife	I have no mains charger for it
16:50:40	pondlife	It's not recognised as a device by the PC either, but I assume that's normal for this state.
16:54:01	pondlife	It also makes a high-pitched buzz when connected to power; not loud, but I suspect not good either
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17:01:21	LambdaCalculus37	A buzz? I don't think that's a very good sign either, pondlife.
17:01:33	pondlife	More of a whine, like a broken inverter
17:01:57	*	pondlife suspects he doesn't have his 5th Rockbox target yet
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17:14:40	LambdaCalculus37	Something power-related may have toasted in the nano. But I can't really be sure unless I hear it or something.
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17:52:31	boothinator	I just registered on the wiki as JoshuaBooth and would like write permissions
17:54:03	GodEater	boothinator: done
17:54:11	*	linuxstb read the logs about a manual A/V offset in mpegplayer and wanted to note that mplayer has such a feature, which is useful for badly encoded videos
17:54:14	boothinator	thank you
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19:14:13	oskie	anyone using sandisk sansa e2x0 here? i don't really understand when it is charging or not
19:15:03	asn	Is the current playing song supposed to stop when I start pacbox?
19:15:50	desowin	oskie: yes, e280 here
19:16:57	oskie	sometimes when i plug it in it stays in rockbox, but shows a big usb cable in the display and everything is frozen until i unplug it
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19:17:42	PaulJam	asn: this depends on your player. as far as i know only gigabeats are powerful enough for packbox and music playback at the same time.
19:19:58	VivianC	Greetings from Chicago. I just joined the TWiki last night and it looks like my TWiki Name has a typo that prevents me from editing. It should be ChrisPadar. Is there someone online here who can fix that?
19:20:14	asn	PaulJam: I see
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19:27:23	advcomp2019	oskie, how old is the build you have on your sansa
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19:48:44	oskie	advcomp2019: not sure.. from december i think
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19:49:10	oskie	advcomp2019: perhaps i should update...
19:49:12	SliMM	rasher: are you there?
19:49:36	advcomp2019	oskie, yea, try updating it
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20:08:20	linuxstb	asn: I haven't tried it, but there's a patch on the patch tracker to enable pacbox to run as the same time as music on PortalPlayer devices (ipods, Sansas, H10) - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8226
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20:09:53	LambdaCalculus37	Seems there are NSF issues afoot: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14979.0
20:10:37	asn	linuxstb: cool thanks
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20:12:12	PaulJam	asn: oh, sorry for the misinformation.
20:13:26	asn	no problem :P thank you too
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20:52:57	NielsE	where is rockbox based upon? linux?
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20:53:23	Domonoky	on rockbox.. :-) its written from scratch
20:54:40	NielsE	k, thats cool
20:54:54	NielsE	and rockbox cannot be themed (yet)?
20:55:13	desowin	if you mean UI - it can since long time
20:55:18	SliMM	NielsE: it's fairly customisable
20:55:27	Domonoky	it can be themed... not all but much of it..
20:55:38	NielsE	can it look as good as, for example, the default apple firmware on an ipod?
20:55:46	asn	NielsE: absolutely ,imo
20:56:10	NielsE	the manual uses a fairly old looking theme :p
20:56:11	Domonoky	NielsE: take a look a the gallery : http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsGallery
20:56:11	asn	you can check screenshots on the internets
20:56:17	desowin	http://www.rockbox-themes.org/
20:56:20	asn	or rockbox-themes.org
20:56:23	asn	desowin: :o
20:57:10	NielsE	I have only skimmed the manual, but is a dual boot possible between the apple firmware and rockbox?
20:57:15	asn	Yes
20:57:22	JdGordon\|w	bah.. stupid random folder advance just played restarted the cd! stupid randomness
20:57:26	SliMM	NielsE: the only difference from the apple firmware would be that the font is only 1bpp in rockbox
20:57:44	NielsE	and thats really small?
20:57:45	SliMM	NielsE: in the apple firmware, the font is 2bpp
20:57:51	NielsE	k
20:57:58	SliMM	NielsE: i mean the color depth
20:58:08	SliMM	not the size
20:58:26	NielsE	ah k, so the apple firmware has like twice as much colors than rockbox?
20:59:06	BigBambi	no
20:59:14	SliMM	no, the font has 4 times as much colors as rockbox
20:59:20	BigBambi	Both can display the same number of colour
20:59:28	BigBambi	Just the font...bah
20:59:42	*	JdGordon\|w waits for a 32bpp font patch
20:59:47	SliMM	NielsE: that means 4 grays instead of simple black
21:00
21:00:08	BigBambi	instead of a single colour
21:00:12	NielsE	ah so :)
21:00:18	BigBambi	It can be any colour you like, not just black :)
21:00:28	SliMM	JdGordon: that would mean alpha transparency also, since rockbox doesn't have unifor white background
21:00:33	SliMM	:P
21:00:53	obo	isn't there a patch floating around already?
21:00:53	SliMM	NielsE: just better looking text
21:01:14	BigBambi	and can infct be multiple different colours at once, just on different bits of text
21:01:17	SliMM	obo: yes, but it's for the plugin api
21:01:38	SliMM	obo: and i thinck it could be done better
21:01:42	SliMM	think*
21:02:08	SliMM	obo: it's not a patch, actually, just a bunch of functions
21:02:25	BigBambi	eh?
21:02:40	NielsE	and am I able to screw up my ipod? a few days trolling some forums to find a fix wont bother me, as long as it is fixable
21:02:47	BigBambi	no
21:02:58	NielsE	good :)
21:03:01	BigBambi	Ipods are nigh-on unbrickable
21:03:48	BigBambi	to quote GodEater, "for the record, the rockbox recommended way to brick your ipod is this: Use a hammer. A lot. Vigourously, and with gusto."
21:03:50	SliMM	NielsE: if you screw your ipod badly, just restart it (menu + middle), enter diskmode (play+middle) and update/restore the firmware
21:04:32	BigBambi	NielsE: If you can read, and you follow the instructions, short of a hardware failure nothing will go wrong
21:04:44	NielsE	ok, I will ^^
21:04:46		Quit roxfan2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:05:29	PaulJam_	JdGordon\|w: if you are using the random folder functionality, could you have a look at FS #7077 ?
21:05:47	SliMM	NielsE: you should know that the battery life is fairly poor
21:06:19	NielsE	hmm, thats bad, how poor?
21:06:32		Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:06:36	BigBambi	for iPod only, ususally about 65% of apple
21:06:53	NielsE	hmm k
21:06:56	BigBambi	For all non-portalplayer players, rockbox has better battery life
21:07:08	BigBambi	But that should improve quite a bit soon I think
21:07:23	BigBambi	Some of Buschels work looks quite promising
21:07:25	SliMM	BigBambi: actually, for ipod 1-3 G it's better than OF
21:07:39	BigBambi	SliMM: Yes, that's true, I had forgotten
21:07:40	LambdaCalculus37	Yes, that's correct.
21:08:20	NielsE	whats OF?
21:08:27	LambdaCalculus37	Original Firmware.
21:08:37	*	SliMM thinks he should write some good-looking demo plugin after cleaning up the transparency functions
21:08:40	LambdaCalculus37	The firmware that's on your iPod when it comes from Apple.
21:09:03	NielsE	I've got a nano 1st gen, so I can expect reasenable batterytime?
21:09:22	LambdaCalculus37	NielsE: About 8-9 hours, give or take.
21:09:23	BigBambi	Look at the BatteryRuntime (or similar name) wiki page
21:09:36	BigBambi	NielsE: Depends also on usuage and battery condition
21:09:49	asn	just wanted to remind you: <3 you all
21:10:03	BigBambi	Rockbox has many options that the OF does not such as full parametric equalizer, that if you enable will use a bit more battery
21:10:05	NielsE	yeah I understand, the batterytime on OF is not what it used to be
21:10:43	NielsE	dan, if I just could find my cable >.>
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21:12:39	SliMM	NielsE: if it's not what it used to be, it means that the battery is old
21:12:50	SliMM	it won't perform better under rockbox
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21:14:07	SliMM	nielsE: i have a good equalizer preset for the ipod
21:14:39	BigBambi	That depends on headphones
21:14:49	saratoga	no one has run the battery benchmark with the new power improvement patch
21:14:52	saratoga	on the Nano
21:14:59	saratoga	would be interesting to see
21:15:44	Galois	where's the patch?
21:16:31	SliMM	what patch?
21:16:50	SliMM	BigBambi: yeah, for the original headphones
21:16:58	Galois	the "power improvement patch"
21:17:20	saratoga	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8379
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21:17:41	Galois	thanks
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21:21:09	NielsE	all that apple needs now is a find cable device haha
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21:24:41	preglow	saratoga: yeah, perhaps i should just try the patch at all :)
21:27:14		Quit scorche\|w ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
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21:31:09	*	linuxstb should also try it on the ipod color...
21:31:46	linuxstb	21 hours for FLAC on the E200 is nice :) What do Sandisk advertise as the runtime?
21:32:24	saratoga	linuxstb: 20 hours i believe
21:32:36	linuxstb	Yes, I just read that on their website - assuming it's for the V1...
21:32:41	linuxstb	(128kbps MP3)
21:33:19	linuxstb	Has anyone done a proper comparison - i.e. same files in both firmwares?
21:33:36	saratoga	i think for flac you could get an hour or two longer if you used the low voltage setting when unboosted
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21:34:38	preglow	hmm
21:34:43	preglow	what would the most useful benchmark be?
21:34:48	preglow	i can only be bothered to do one
21:35:10	linuxstb	You really need to do 2 - to take into account your battery.
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21:35:39	preglow	roit
21:35:56	saratoga	i took current measurements for the sansa firmware running LAME -V2 files
21:35:59	preglow	two identical, or what?
21:36:33	advlaptop2019	linuxstb, do you know what is the mp3 battery life on the e200 with that patch
21:36:55	saratoga	preglow: I just watched it with a reasonably fast DMM, and recorded the boost and unboost numbers
21:37:11	saratoga	surprisingly, they seem to ping back and forth between a high clock and low clock speed like rockbox
21:37:17	preglow	hnmm
21:37:20	preglow	weird
21:37:23	linuxstb	preglow: Maybe even 3... I think we want to know a) How much the patch improves runtime compared to SVN; b) How the patch (assuming it's better than SVN) compares to the Apple firmware.
21:37:27	preglow	i would've thought they'd go for the apple approach
21:37:34	saratoga	oh sorry, yes i used the same file
21:37:48	saratoga	though maybe not the exact same part of it, so it may not be entirely accurate
21:38:18	linuxstb	advlaptop2019: No idea
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21:43:10	saratoga	i thought about hooking up an ADC and just recording a couple minutes of current draw, but it seemed a little excessive until we've got the patch fully sorted out
21:43:26	saratoga	since i'd probably just have to repeat the recording after a few minutes anyway
21:43:33	saratoga	few days rather
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21:50:58	preglow	deed
21:51:08	*	preglow does a lame V2 test
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21:54:42	preglow	btw, has anything happened on the usb side of things?
21:55:17	LambdaCalculus37	Going home now... bye everyone!
21:55:36	linuxstb	preglow: Last I heard, Zagor said he was too busy to work on it, but his time should be freeing up soon...
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21:58:06	saratoga	someone submitted a patch that enables USB charging, but he disipeared
21:58:41	asn	Sorry for jumping in the discussion without any reason, but what do you mean by 'USB charging'?
21:59:01	saratoga	charging via the USB port on the PP targets
22:00
22:00:09	asn	saratoga: PP targets?
22:00:43	BigBambi	portalplayer
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22:00:57	asn	Great, thanks
22:02:02		Quit TMM (Remote closed the connection)
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22:06:25		Quit axionix_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:06:26	PuppiesOnAcid	Has anyone here installed Rockbox on a 2nd gen iPod?
22:06:56	preglow	not many, and 2nd gen ipod is kind of broken at the moment
22:07:02		Join axionix [0] (n=axion@cpe-74-70-239-192.nycap.res.rr.com)
22:07:20	PuppiesOnAcid	what is broken about it?
22:07:23	BigBambi	randomly broken or not depending on the build
22:07:26		Join scorche\|w [0] (n=42c007b2@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
22:07:31	BigBambi	Some work, others don't
22:07:34	preglow	randomly broken depending on the build :)
22:07:35	PuppiesOnAcid	are testers needed?
22:07:52	preglow	PuppiesOnAcid: no, at this stage, testing doesn't help much, it's a complicated problem
22:08:00	PuppiesOnAcid	sucks :\
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22:08:08	preglow	deed
22:08:46		Quit sneakums ("There shouldn't be this reign of silence, but what are the options when someone great is gone?")
22:09:04	PuppiesOnAcid	what exactly does the problem entail?
22:09:46	BigBambi	as in what
22:09:57	BigBambi	the cause or the symptoms?
22:09:59	PuppiesOnAcid	what is preventing the new firmware from working on 2nd gen?
22:10:19	BigBambi	I rather suspect if that were known properly it would be nearer to being fixed
22:10:34	pixelma	PuppiesOnAcid: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14228.msg106755#msg106755.
22:10:34	PuppiesOnAcid	like
22:10:37	PuppiesOnAcid	does the wheel not work?
22:10:38	preglow	it's a cache issue
22:10:41	preglow	but we don't know why it happens
22:10:43	PuppiesOnAcid	thank you
22:10:46	preglow	PuppiesOnAcid: no, builds crash randomly
22:10:57	BigBambi	PuppiesOnAcid: It often doesn't boot, and crashes randomly
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22:11:33	PuppiesOnAcid	'man
22:11:39	PuppiesOnAcid	i may take a look at the source and see if i can come up with anything
22:11:52		Quit ch4os_ ("Lost terminal")
22:12:10	BigBambi	go for it
22:12:23	PuppiesOnAcid	are there any other good firmwares out there other than rockbox that I should look into?
22:12:30	BigBambi	no
22:12:48	PuppiesOnAcid	probably the wrong channel to ask in :)
22:12:50	BigBambi	I'm not sure if ipodlinux runs on the early gens
22:12:57	BigBambi	But even if not
22:13:05	PuppiesOnAcid	ipodlinux is a bit too nerdy for me
22:13:09	PuppiesOnAcid	I still want to be able to USE my ipod :)
22:13:18	saratoga	then you're out of luck
22:13:26	BigBambi	It is just us and them
22:13:26	linuxstb	BigBambi: IPL runs on exactly the same ipods as Rockbox.
22:13:35	BigBambi	linuxstb: OK, cool
22:13:39	PuppiesOnAcid	you, them, and Apple :)
22:13:53	BigBambi	A replacement firmware is not an easy thing to do :)
22:14:03	PuppiesOnAcid	i'm sure of that
22:14:09	PuppiesOnAcid	do most devs on rockbox use linux?
22:14:17	BigBambi	I would guess so
22:14:28	BigBambi	But I don't think there has ever been a survey
22:14:33	linuxstb	I would say it's a pretty even split between Linux and Windows.
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22:14:43	BigBambi	But it is perfectly possible to develop on Mac and Windows too
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22:16:00	linuxstb	You can't really develop on Windows, unless you count Cygwin as Windows...
22:16:12	BigBambi	well, I mean windows as a base
22:16:33	BigBambi	Using cygwin (or VM etc.)
22:16:53	BigBambi	I just meant if you want to have afiddle you don't have to install linux
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22:18:51	Keripo	I'm looking at the ipodpatcher source code and it seems that an error level of "0" is returned both when an action is successful and when it fails. Is there any simple way of telling whether or not an action was successful other than searching through the output?
22:19:57	PuppiesOnAcid	does rockbox support the clicking noise when you're going through your list
22:21:01	preglow	it should return 1 on failure
22:21:06	preglow	if it doesn't, that should be fixed
22:21:23	preglow	PuppiesOnAcid: through a patch, yes, but not officially
22:21:50	linuxstb	Keripo: Yes, that's a bit of a mess... A patch to make the return code more consistent would be welcome ;)
22:22:24	linuxstb	Keripo: Out of curiousity, why do you need it?
22:22:32	Keripo	preglow: Iooking at the section for adding the bootloader and the only difference between a success and a failure are different fprintf error messages
22:22:50	Keripo	linuxstb: ahh, understood, I could try making a patch later
22:23:36	Keripo	and the reason would be because I'm working on a package manager that uses ipodpatcher to install loader2 and I thought reading the error level would be easier than parsing the output
22:23:58	linuxstb	What language is your package manager written in?
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22:24:34	Keripo	linuxstb: java, which I don't really think would be able to easily do the patching itself
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22:25:57	Keripo	I suppose I'll try creating a patch for it later; I'm assuming all the fprintf's are in the main.c file and any return of "0" should be a success while a return of "1" should indicate a failure?
22:26:16	Keripo	*should I assume that ...
22:27:40	Keripo	(discussion moved to #ipodlinux)
22:27:42		Part Keripo
22:28:10	linuxstb	Keripo: I was about to say discussion of ipodpatcher itself is fine here - it's a Rockbox tool. I just had some more general questions I wanted to ask you in #ipodlinux...
22:30:05	linuxstb	There are probably some fprintfs in ipodpatcher.c as well, but they're more likely just for information. I suppose it depends on how much detail you want it to return to your app.
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22:51:57	Bagder	I get the feeling it is about time rbutil got its own section in the manual
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22:52:23	Bagder	now with the voice stuff too, it offers so much...
22:52:32	Domonoky	:-)
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22:55:21	PuppiesOnAcid	Where is system.h in the rockbox source?
22:55:23	PuppiesOnAcid	I cannot seem to find it
22:55:48	Bagder	$ find . -name system.h
22:55:48	Bagder	./firmware/export/system.h
23:00
23:00:25	JdGordon\|w	Bagder: can assasinXCV on the tracker be banned?
23:00:52	Bagder	why?
23:00:57		Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
23:01:10	JdGordon\|w	coz hes a moron and has already been banned from irc and forums
23:01:20		Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
23:03:10	Bagder	ok, I disabled the user now
23:03:22	JdGordon\|w	cheers
23:03:34	JdGordon\|w	does it tell him he's gone?
23:03:48	Bagder	I don't know what it says
23:03:54	JdGordon\|w	hopefully nothing
23:03:59	nanok	JdGordon\|w: it probably only tells him he will have to use another id :/
23:04:23	Bagder	very probably, yes
23:04:48	nanok	what the hell is wrong these days? where do they pop up from? :(
23:04:52	nanok	oh well
23:05:12	nanok	i guess it would be boring as hell if everybody had a brain
23:05:24	JdGordon\|w	I rekon jmac is him also... but have no proof...
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23:36:29	dewdude	i'm having some issues with a custom WPS. I wrote this thing last year..and i recently updated my 11 month old rockbox build only to find out the parser is more strict. so, i've got this unexpected conditional character after token 15 on a line and i'm not sure exactly where my problem is. here's the line in question:
23:36:29	dewdude	%al %?mp<stop\|play\|pause\|ffwd\|rew> \| repeat: %?mm<off\|all\|one\|shuffle\|a-b>%ar%cm.d.Y - I.MPc
23:37:23	dewdude	if someone could point me as to where my problem is so i can fix it, it'd be appreciated.
23:38:20	pixelma	if you want to show a \| in your WPS as a character you need to escape it with the % - should be %\| then
23:38:35	dewdude	ahhh
23:38:46	dewdude	is that it?
23:39:29	pixelma	and the time format tags are differently now too
23:39:44	dewdude	yeah, i need to update that..i'm just looking at it. i thought that was my issue.
23:39:57	dewdude	i wonder how much i have to rewrite.
23:40:09	dewdude	alrighty..thanks pixelma
23:40:27	pixelma	you're welcome
23:40:37	csc`	i didnt think apple made decent 'PC Speakers', interesting
23:41:09	dewdude	they don't, they oem them out. but that's offtopic.
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23:48:52	webguest90	hey everybody, i've got a question about rockbox
23:49:50	webguest90	is there the possibilty to play files out of an folder like in the original firmware for the iaudio x5l?
23:50:08	Bagder	out of an folder?
23:50:18	Bagder	you mean browse to it and play it?
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23:50:49	webguest90	well in the original firmware, i can go to the folder structe an lean the stick to the left and he plays the title
23:51:44	webguest90	if i click on the stick an choose "play title" he makes a kind of playlist and plays this folder
23:52:07	dewdude	rockbox's normal action when you select a file in a folder is to enque everything under that file.
23:52:24	Bagder	everything in that dir actually
23:52:24	dewdude	so if you wanna listen to track 2 of an album for example, it plays 2 and loads the rest of the album.
23:52:26	webguest90	in rockbox ialways have to make an playlist if i only want to hear one title
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23:52:45	dewdude	right.
23:52:51	dewdude	that's how it's always behaved for me.
23:53:21	Bagder	webguest90: then you want the add to playlist options or similar
23:53:26	webguest90	well, the prob is, my original firmware has a kind of bug an only rockbox is working ^^
23:53:58	webguest90	i just want to have the opinion to play all files in my music-folder
23:54:27	Bagder	rockbox can do that
23:54:33	Bagder	in several different ways even
23:54:36	BigBambi	webguest90: long select on the song you want to get the context menu then select one of the insert options
23:54:52	webguest90	and browse the folder, cause i have sorted all media into diffrent folders
23:54:56	webguest90	hm
23:55:24	webguest90	well... listen ^^ i think we misunderstand ^^
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23:56:46	webguest90	i want to play all media in the folder MUSIC, where are diffrent folders like ArtistXY, but all this without creating an playlist, where i have to search my specific title
23:57:10	BigBambi	turn on recursivly insert directories
23:57:23	BigBambi	then long select on the music folder, and insert it
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23:57:34	Bagder	webguest90: you want everything done exactly like the OF without adjusting one tiny bit to how rockbox works?
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23:58:29	JacobDude	hi
23:58:40	webguest90	no, i think rockbox is better than the OF, but this little thing...

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