#rockbox 2008-01-21

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#rockbox log for 2008-01-21

00:00:31	saratoga1	eh i'm commiting the firewire charger detection thing before it gets forgotten
00:00:36	saratoga1	it looks harmless enough anyway
00:01:00		Nick \|404\| is now known as JETC- (n=jetc123@pool-72-68-62-120.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)
00:01:50		Join BoD[]_ [0] (n=BoD@JRAF.org)
00:01:58	BoD[]_	Hello, World!
00:02:00	Nico_P	XavierGr: the H300 is quite bulky though, and I didn't use the tuner or recording much
00:02:13	Nico_P	I'm really looking forward to having rockbox on the S
00:02:31	kugel	JdGordon: It didn't even took me 5 min to spot the first error in your list patch :)
00:02:35	saratoga1	so are the rest of us
00:03:03	saratoga1	be interesting to expand mpeg player into a general purpose video player
00:03:04	BoD[]_	the S ?
00:03:13	BigBambi	gigabeat s
00:03:22		Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
00:03:22	BoD[]_	oh right
00:03:25	*	BigBambi is also looking forward to it
00:03:40	Bagder	rasher: now you can have a look at my first take at the lang stuff
00:03:54	*	Nico_P is still waiting for ptw419 to reply to his email
00:04:40	BoD[]_	I'm doing a chkdsk on my ipod... Does anybody know if it's normal that it takes forever
00:04:43	BoD[]_	?
00:04:50	saratoga1	does anyone have any thoughts on that PP battery charging patch ( FS #8363 )?
00:04:57	BoD[]_	it's been 10min it says 3 percent completed
00:05:07	saratoga1	i'd like to see that commited but the guy working on it seems to have vanished
00:05:37		Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
00:06:12	Llorean	saratoga1: I'd like to see more testing on it.
00:06:30	saratoga1	Bagder: you have the datasheet for the AS chip that handles charging on the PP5024?
00:06:50	BoD[]_	(plus ctrl+c doesn't seem to do anything)
00:07:19	Bagder	the AS3514, yes I do
00:08:03		Quit MethoS-- ("Konversation terminated!")
00:10:11	saratoga1	Bagder: how much info is there abotu battery charging?
00:10:40	saratoga1	if bertrik isn't interested on finishing up that patch, i may take over it once the default theme and PP power consumption stuff is commited
00:11:44	Bagder	it's not a lot said, but there is some at least
00:14:39		Quit crzyboyster ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:14:52		Quit BoD[]_ ("leaving")
00:15:52		Quit Axio_ ()
00:17:50	*	Nico_P is under the impression that he could use his S's drive in the F
00:18:48	Llorean	Nico_P: No, the S and X should be compatible though, iirc.
00:21:09		Part JETC-
00:21:29	moos	Nico_P:not the same connector
00:21:41	Nico_P	yeah but there is a sort of ribbon
00:21:42	saratoga1	anyone know why a bdf font wouldn't work with rockbox?
00:21:55	Llorean	You mean, after converting to fnt?
00:22:04	saratoga1	Llorean: no the conversio itself
00:22:13	Llorean	Using the SVN converter, or a binary from somewhere?
00:22:14	saratoga1	the bdf->fnt program seems to fail on some files
00:22:19	saratoga1	the svn one
00:22:28	saratoga1	though oddly the fnt versions of the fonts work fine
00:23:45	Nico_P	moos: the mainbord connector is very resemblant
00:24:10	kugel	JdGordon: If you'd answer me I'd share my experience with your list patch, including errors and bugs
00:24:15		Quit desowin ()
00:24:17	saratoga1	maybe i have teh wrong DPI?
00:24:23	saratoga1	does rockbox need a certain type of bdf file
00:24:42	JdGordon	kugel: if I'm not answering it usualy means I'm busy atm... just leave a message on the tracker
00:25:06	kugel	okok
00:25:56	kugel	I thought you aren't very busy since you had time to type something in -community (no offense)
00:31:10	Nico_P	hmm I've managed to connect the S's hd in the F but the right bootloader is obviously lacking
00:34:18		Quit roolku ()
00:35:11	*	Nico_P doesn't know what to do apart from use his S to listen to music (erk)
00:36:28		Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
00:36:49	saratoga1	ugh the mix12 font alone is 1.2MB
00:37:00	saratoga1	but at least its only used by whatever device is 160x128x2 (Ipod 4g?)
00:37:22	saratoga1	i really should have paid closer attention to the default theme process to discourage things like this
00:38:27	Llorean	H100 and the iPods Grayscale, I think.
00:38:59	saratoga1	i wonder whats in that font tha tmakes it 15x the size of all the others
00:39:56	Llorean	Sixty billion extra unicode character sets for obscure languages like Klingon?
00:40:15		Part LinusN
00:41:24	saratoga1	is there a tool that lets you edit these font files?
00:41:35	saratoga1	seems like making a rockbox.bdf file would be optimal
00:41:36		Part toens
00:41:43	Llorean	Fontforge I hear works well enough
00:44:02	*	Nico_P needs to find a way to put F bootloader files on his S's HD
00:45:57	BigBambi	F recovery trick?
00:46:30	Nico_P	is it on the wiki?
00:47:00	BigBambi	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatFXPort#Gigabeat_Recovery_Procedures
00:48:38	saratoga1	Llorean: do we want to give the Cabbie2 people artist tags in the forums?
00:49:17		Quit Casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007100814]")
00:50:11	Llorean	saratoga1: I've already stated a policy of "You don't get a tag for adapting someone else's work". So, there might be one or two people there who get a tag, but I'm not going to wade in and figure out who, or how. I'll let some of them apply via the normal process, and defend their application the usual way
00:50:24	Llorean	Bagder: Man, I thought I was even particularly polite about my reminder regarding top posting.
00:50:45	Bagder	yeah, but the whiners are always there to bite
00:51:04	Nico_P	BigBambi: thanks :) problem is the damn device turns off each time I plug the drive in
00:51:14	Nico_P	I guess they're not compatible after all ;p
00:51:20	BigBambi	Are you sure they are compatible?
00:51:22	BigBambi	Heh :)
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00:54:09		Quit ender` (" You don't have to think too hard when you talk to teachers. -- J. D. Salinger")
00:55:23	saratoga1	how do i delte a file from version control if I've already deleted it from the source tree?
00:56:12	Bagder	svn −−force rm [file] I think
01:00
01:00:00	pixelma	saratoga1, Llorean: the M5's display is also 160x128x2
01:00:57	Llorean	pixelma: Y'know, half the time I even forget the M5 is a target. =/ We're getting too big for me to keep in my head.
01:01:58	pixelma	you need more obscure devices ;)
01:04:39	Llorean	Well, in about a month I'll be due another Rockbox if I want to keep up the average. :-P
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01:07:34	XavierGr	Rockbox has turned me into a DAP collector. I can't justify anymore my purchases. I just say it is rockbox-compatible and then buy it...
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01:10:16	saratoga1	ok i'm going to commit cabbie
01:11:07	JdGordon	noooooooooooooO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
01:11:11	petur	it would be nice if cabbie showed the volume in dB - even if only while changing it...
01:11:54	Llorean	At least I got them to make it visibly show when you pass 0dB
01:11:54	pixelma	saratoga1: does the greyscale 160x128 port really use a different font than the colour 160x128 port (X5 and big H10)?
01:12:08	PaulJam	petur: i don't think this is possible with the current WPS syntax.
01:12:20	saratoga1	pixelma: yes apparently
01:12:34	saratoga1	which seems odd to be sure
01:13:19	pixelma	how weird, I hope it is at least the same height? (otherwise there would be problems with the Iaudio remote wps, I think)
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01:15:11	saratoga1	pixelma: its just going to svn, not becoming default, so we'll have time to correct that
01:15:24	saratoga1	i expect to find a few problems
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01:15:34	saratoga1	since i don't understand half the stuff i just did
01:16:05	pixelma	hmm ok, we'll see
01:17:10	saratoga1	can i mark the bdf files as binary so that SVN doesn't try to diff them?
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01:17:47	\|NSA\|	anyone here have a sansa c240 and use the radio?
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01:18:08	pixelma	saratoga1: AFAIK bdf is actually text file, not binary
01:18:56	pixelma	\|NSA\|: I have a c250 and use the radio - close enough? I.e."just ask" ;)
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01:19:46	\|NSA\|	when i listen to the radio, after about 20 minutes, it seems to get out of tune on the frequency and get kinda staticy, when i go to another frequency and then go back, it get a clear signal again
01:20:12	\|NSA\|	i assumed it jwas just a buggy tuner, but i was bored so i decided to come in here and ask anyway
01:20:51	pixelma	didn't happen to me and I listened to it for a while on friday. How old is your build?
01:21:29	\|NSA\|	like half a week or a week
01:21:29		Quit lee-qid (Connection timed out)
01:21:46	\|NSA\|	\the one right after the new mpeg seeking stuff
01:22:04	\|NSA\|	actually, so more than a week
01:22:21	\|NSA\|	but it happened for a while
01:23:32	pixelma	can you state the complete revision number? There was a commit that fixed stability issues with the tuner on January 9th - or just update to the current build and try again
01:24:00		Quit ch4os_ ("Lost terminal")
01:24:22	saratoga1	pulling the trigger
01:24:52	pixelma	\|NSA\|: you can check in the menu > system > Rockbox Info
01:26:39	pixelma	revision 16038 was the bug fix
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01:32:28	saratoga1	nuts the build system doesn't kick in for theme changes
01:32:35	saratoga1	someone commit something i want to see if cabbie works
01:35:21	linuxstb	saratoga1: Did you forget wps/FILES ?
01:35:33	saratoga1	linuxstb: yes, yes I did
01:36:26	*	linuxstb always remembers FILES when other people commit things, but always forgets when he does...
01:38:07	\|NSA\|	it was probably beofre that since i also noticed that commit and thats why i asked to se if maybe someone would say that that is the commit that would fix it
01:39:27	\|NSA\|	15993 was the oneon mine, i guess ill upgrade right now
01:40:00	pixelma	\|NSA\|: I had another issue before - everytime I listened to music files before and then switched to the radio the frequencies were off (so same symptoms but a different way to get there). I'd just try
01:40:31	linuxstb	Why was Unifont deleted?
01:40:41	saratoga1	i wonder how that 1 line of code added by the firewire charge detection patch added 2.5kb to the binary size
01:40:54	saratoga1	linuxstb: i haven't commited it yet for lack of agreement on how to proceed
01:41:13	saratoga1	currently its implemented a completely seperate theme with duplicate copies of all bmps
01:41:45	linuxstb	saratoga1: I mean why did your commit delete unifont.bdf ?
01:41:51	pixelma	saratoga1: he means that the complete unifont bdf is marked "gone"
01:41:59	saratoga1	that shouldn't be
01:42:19	saratoga1	probably hit it by accident when i was deleting the fnt files left over from the cabbie zips
01:43:35	saratoga1	ok put it back
01:44:05	linuxstb	Also, it seems odd that the 160x128x2 target gets a huge unicode font (mix12), and the others (including 160x128x16) don't...
01:44:13	linuxstb	saratoga1: Be careful to keep the SVN history...
01:44:58	linuxstb	i.e. use "svn cp" IIRC.
01:45:51	pixelma	saratoga1: might be interesting to read the latest forum post :)
01:46:47	saratoga1	linuxstb: how is that used?
01:47:00	saratoga1	i generally just do a cp -r when i need to fork
01:47:40	linuxstb	Google for "subversion undelete" - e.g. http://wiki.zhekov.net/svnusage
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01:50:13	*	linuxstb wonders if we need something like a wps/CREDITS document to say who owns the (C) in the various WPS files and images.
01:50:26	linuxstb	(and their licenses...)
01:50:31		Quit \|AhIoRoS\| (Remote closed the connection)
01:50:59	Llorean	Can't you put comments in a WPS with lines starting with #?
01:51:07	Llorean	Maybe we could just add them directly to the .wps file?
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01:51:36	linuxstb	True, but that doesn't deal with images.
01:51:50	Llorean	True
01:51:59	soap	chain-of-title would be nice
01:52:01	linuxstb	Although I guess the .wps could just list the (C) holders of the images used by that wps...
01:52:06	Llorean	Indeed
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01:52:44	linuxstb	Although maybe we don't wouldn't want to clutter up the .wps with license/copyright info.
01:52:52	Llorean	Yeah
01:52:53	\|NSA\|	hmm, is there a pacman for rockbox, i have read about it but ant find it
01:52:55	linuxstb	^delete one of those words...
01:53:05		Quit waldo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:53:21	linuxstb	\|NSA\|: There is an emulator of the pacman arcade machine hardware. You will need to provide the software (i.e. ROMs) to run on it.
01:53:50	pixelma	\|NSA\|: there is one in Rockbox but not for all targets (c200 being one of the latter)
01:54:15	saratoga1	linuxstb: were you working on the patch to set the default theme?
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01:54:35	linuxstb	I wrote one about a year ago, but no-one liked the theme (iCatcher)...
01:55:07	linuxstb	And I haven't looked at it since.
01:55:15	linuxstb	(it's on flyspray)
01:55:53	saratoga1	how difficult would it be to adapt it to all the stuff cabbie needs?
01:58:35	linuxstb	Not that hard, but we might want to move all the defaults to a separate file (e.g. defaults.h), and possibly even generate that from WPSLIST if we were clever...
01:59:14	linuxstb	The patch basically just adds macros like DEFAULT_WPS, DEFAULT_FONT etc, and then defines them with a big set of #defines.
02:00
02:00:01	saratoga1	linuxstb: yes I would prefer to parse WPS list, but I'm not too sure how that should work
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02:02:34	linuxstb	It would probably be easier to just do it manually - you would need to convert things like "selector type: bar (gradient)" into the internal Rockbox representation. i.e. parse WPSLIST as if it was a .cfg.
02:02:53		Quit Jon-Kha (Remote closed the connection)
02:03:03	linuxstb	It's not as if we're going to change the defaults very often.
02:04:21	saratoga1	looking at it, i think i could just get away with changing the font and wps strings
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02:06:32	countrymonkey	Has 8365 had a look? I would like to update the japanese lang but rasher's page will not let me update everything without 8365 being committed.
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02:11:28	countrymonkey	I mean 8465. My mistake.
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02:26:20	\|NSA\|	aww man, why didnt anyone tell me that a new theme was going to be commited right beofre i updated. and also, how do yu uninstall themes?
02:27:11	JdGordon	you didnt ask?
02:27:15	JdGordon	and you dont need to
02:27:24	\|NSA\|	i know but i want to
02:27:33	\|NSA\|	i dont like some of the themes i installed
02:27:36	\|NSA\|	so why have them?
02:28:04	countrymonkey	Delete the files relating to the theme within .rockbox/themes and .rockbox/wps.
02:28:47	countrymonkey	JDGordan, am I correct? It has been a while since I did it.
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02:31:49	saratoga1	themes tend to put stuff in fonts, icons, backdrops, wps and themes, so i guess you'd have to dig through all of them
02:32:05	saratoga1	its really pointless though, themes are generally too small to be worth deleting
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03:00
03:00:38	saratoga1	alright, now i just need to take Buschel's current measurements and then i can finally start working on the wma codec again
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04:22:53	countrymonkey	Is tuukka ojala on this irc channel?
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04:59:09	testfire	Hello, is the Sansa e260 supported?
04:59:49	advlaptop2019	testfire, yes if it is a v1
04:59:51	Alonea	testfire: yeshum. as long as its not v2
05:00
05:00:18	testfire	How do I find this out"?
05:00:33	advlaptop2019	testfire, check the firmware
05:00:41	testfire	Ok
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05:01:26	testfire	Version 01.02.18A
05:01:39	testfire	I guess that's version 1 right?
05:01:47	advlaptop2019	testfire, that is a v1 so you can have rockbox
05:01:54	testfire	Sweet!
05:02:09	testfire	How should I go about installing it, I use Ubuntu Linux.
05:02:53	Horscht	download the installer
05:04:21	testfire	which one should I download? http://download.rockbox.org/rbutil/linux/
05:04:53	rvvs89	Probably the more recent one
05:05:08	testfire	1.0.2?
05:07:06	rvvs89	Yar
05:07:17	testfire	Is there any chances of bricking my Sansa?
05:08:08	rvvs89	Not a clue, but that is probably detailed in the manual
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05:11:38	testfire	It's giving me download errors when I try to run the installer...
05:12:50	Alonea	testfire: manually.
05:13:06	testfire	huh?
05:13:24	Alonea	testfire: oh, there is the autoinstaller and the manual way right? I was just suggesting manual way is best way to install
05:13:40	testfire	Oh
05:13:55	testfire	How long can it take that way?
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05:16:54	testfire	Looks like it was my fault... had the rockbox.zip file already downloaded from before
05:17:45	testfire	What theme is best :P
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05:19:13	Horscht	what color is the best, testfire?
05:21:02	testfire	I'm just going to install them all :P
05:21:08	testfire	but I like blue :P
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05:54:46	telliott	What is this "cabbie 2.0" interface? Is it compatible with the Archos V1 recorder?
05:57:22	psycho_maniac	Cabbie 2.0 is just a "wps" for your player.
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05:58:23	psycho_maniac	and yes i do believe it will work for the archos players
06:00
06:00:26	telliott	Cool. I'll have to try it out.
06:01:23	psycho_maniac	All you have to do is download the most current version of rockbox and i believe it will be under the browse themes setting
06:01:53	telliott	Thanks. Doing that now.
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06:06:06	telliott	Not bad but I like a bold font.
06:09:17	telliott	Cool. It works with my favorite alt8x8.fnt
06:10:27	psycho_maniac	I THINK it will work with any font that the original one is set to for size. im not too sure though.
06:11:02	telliott	A bit more scrolling but it looks great.
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06:11:56	telliott	psycho_maniac, what's your preferred Rockbox hardware?
06:12:18	psycho_maniac	what do you mean by hardware? what player i prefer?
06:12:26	telliott	Yes
06:12:41	psycho_maniac	I like the Gigabeat F series
06:13:36	telliott	Cool. That's the one with the big + controller.
06:14:14	telliott	What size hard drive is in it?
06:14:50	psycho_maniac	They can be found with a 20, 40, and 60hd
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06:16:19	telliott	Thanks for your help.
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06:32:17	psycho_maniac	anybody know the site that has a bunch of rockbox fonts off hand?
06:37:02	scorche	rasher's site?
06:38:17	psycho_maniac	yeah
06:46:13	psycho_maniac	i found it
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07:48:44	emkuf	What do you think about Cowon mp3 players?
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08:32:42	SJ-Jerks	Hey, anyone wanting to help me config my IPOD 80gig?
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08:33:15	JdGordon	you know... ive actually been sitting here all night hoping someone would be kind enough to let me help them do exatcly that!
08:33:50	SJ-Jerks	....seriously?
08:34:14	GodEater	sarcasm alert! sarcasm alert!
08:34:39	SJ-Jerks	UGH, come one! none of the damn themes work, and i cant find anything on tthe forums!
08:36:17	SJ-Jerks	So you guys just sit in here and do.......what?
08:38:49	GodEater	None of the themes work ?
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08:41:22	SJ-Jerks	Well, i put them in...and when i play a music file it just uses the default player
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08:41:39	SJ-Jerks	Like it seems the only thing working is the background and font
08:41:42	scorche	and you tried every one?
08:42:07	SJ-Jerks	i have 9 different ones on here
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08:42:14	GodEater	presumably only the ones which say they'll work with an official build. Because of course if you're using an unsupported build, then you're on your own.
08:42:27	GodEater	9. There's quite a few more than 9.
08:43:13	SJ-Jerks	I know, but i get very frustrated quickly. I tried the ones that have "Will work on daily build" or whatever
08:44:50	GodEater	Did you read the bit at the top of the page saying "Broken Themes" ?
08:46:34	SJ-Jerks	No sir, im using "Soap's Mirror"
08:46:52	*	GodEater is unaware of that site
08:47:23	SJ-Jerks	Am i allowed to paste sites?
08:47:39	GodEater	if you're just going to paste the url, we don't want the entire site ;)
08:48:02	SJ-Jerks	http://rockbox-themes.cleansoap.org/index.php?res=320x240x16
08:48:47	*	GodEater recommends "http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIpod5g"
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08:50:02	SJ-Jerks	So if i download any of these....it should work if i throw them in the rockbox folder?
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08:51:50	GodEater	no
08:52:06	GodEater	I recommend that page because it contains the "Broken Themes" text to which I earlier referrred
08:52:34	GodEater	however, I can tell you that the Cabbie 2.0 theme on that page does work - because I'm using it right now
08:54:40	SJ-Jerks	Yes, and that comes with the build i downloaded...it works for me. So its just a matter of...works and don't then?
08:55:21	GodEater	if you find themes which don't work, do what the "Broken Themes" text says
08:57:10	SJ-Jerks	Great, thank you for your help and time godeater.
08:59:57	NHeal	(timeout) clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
09:00
09:00:33	amiconn	eurgh
09:00:52	amiconn	Why are there now a 'backdrops' and an 'icons' folder at top level in svn?
09:02:20	*	GodEater looks at saratoga....
09:02:59	JdGordon	fonts/backdrops/wps/icons should all go under /themes to get them out of the way
09:03:33	*	JdGordon also wonders why cabbiev2 was commited with the v2 part?
09:03:47	GodEater	because that's its name ?
09:03:51	amiconn	I agree, except about fonts
09:04:10	JdGordon	any version before svn is irrelevant though
09:04:13	amiconn	fonts/ contains the default font, which is compiled into the binaries
09:04:35	JdGordon	meh, makes sense putting all the non-code stuff in one spot..
09:04:36	GodEater	JdGordon: not really, there's still a cabbie v1 which is radically different
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09:09:01	SJ-Jerks	Hey godeater...you try the "pen&paper" theme yet? I like it alot!
09:10:26	LinusN	it's wonderful!
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09:11:26	SJ-Jerks	Quick question...it seems like theres alot going on inside the ipod...does Rockbox run the battery fast?
09:12:39	GodEater	if you mean "does the battery drain faster in Rockbox than in Apple's firmware?" then currently the answer is yes
09:13:44	GodEater	anyone know if saratoga's commit of cabbiev2 was just that, or did he make it the new default too ?
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09:17:31	GodEater	LinusN: do you know much about Flyspray's config/internals at all ?
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09:20:10	LinusN	GodEater: nothing, actually :-)
09:20:36	LinusN	GodEater: he did not make it the default
09:22:16	GodEater	thanks on both counts :)
09:22:38	*	GodEater is trying to work out how on a local install of flyspray, the default status for a new task is "Closed"
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09:48:55	RhinoB	morning folks
09:49:14	RhinoB	anyone around to confirm a possible bug in the code of rb?
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09:51:14	Godrilla	hi
09:52:55	markun	hi Godrilla
09:53:04	Godrilla	i have a quick question
09:53:21	Godrilla	i got rockbox on ipod nano
09:53:44	Godrilla	and i was wondering, in database can you sort by album?
09:54:10	Godrilla	like when you click on an artist and you have multiple albums underneath the artists' name
09:54:32	Godrilla	and you click on "all tracks" can it be by album order instead of alphabetical
09:54:34	markun	I thought that was the case already, but I haven't used the database in a long time
09:54:49	markun	let me search a bit
09:54:52	Godrilla	thanks
09:56:25	GodEater	Godrilla: yes certainly you can
09:56:34	GodEater	Godrilla: is there something makes you think you cannot ?
09:56:38	markun	GodEater: with tagnavi?
09:56:48	GodEater	markun: it's shipped with our default one
09:56:52	GodEater	you don't need to do anything special
09:56:54	Godrilla	how would i do that
09:57:04	GodEater	oh hang on
09:57:07	*	GodEater reads the question again
09:57:12	Godrilla	really? for me it's listed alphabetically
09:57:21	Godrilla	this is when i click on "all tracks"
09:58:07	GodEater	yes sorry
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09:58:14	GodEater	that's current behaviour
09:58:23	GodEater	I thought you wanted to just see the list of Albums for that artist
09:58:25	GodEater	I see what you mean now
09:58:48	GodEater	I suspect it's possible to acheive what you want though
09:58:48	Godrilla	is it possible/
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09:58:51	GodEater	but you'd have to ask "bascule" in the forums - he's Mr. Custom Tagnavi ;)
09:59:29	markun	Godrilla: here's some info which might help you: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DataBase#tagnavi_config_v2_0_Syntax
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10:43:04	pondlife	Zagor: Is www.rockbox.org back now? Seems ok from here and I'm about to do a commit...
10:43:21	Zagor	yes it is
10:43:25	pondlife	Thanks
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10:54:16	pondlife	Hmm, the build server is taking a while to kick off...
10:55:48	LinusN	the server went picking daisies
10:56:00	LinusN	we just restarted it
10:56:16	linuxstb	pondlife: Which PP targets have problems been reported on? Does it work OK on the Gigabeat?
10:56:30	LinusN	gigabeat is not pp
10:56:32	pondlife	Works great on the Gigabeat, very useful
10:56:45	linuxstb	LinusN: I know, but it's ARM, so uses similar PCM code.
10:56:53	pondlife	Maybe it's just me, but I find the non-button control on the Gigabeat a bit odd
10:56:55	linuxstb	(i.e. a FIQ IIRC)
10:56:59	LinusN	i see
10:57:29	pondlife	I've had reports from GodEater that iPod Video suffers, and from JdGordon about a Sansa E
10:57:58	pondlife	I guess that pcmbuf_beep() for PP doesn't like short durations.
10:58:29	pondlife	But I don't think I can do much more to investigate without an affected device.
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10:59:12	LinusN	i wish i had enough usb-fu to enable the serial usb device for logf()
11:00
11:00:50	*	pondlife wonders if the build server has completed its daisy chain yet.
11:02:12	Zagor	LinusN: I have uncommitted code that enables it, but it doesn't work very well. strings get cut off and garbled.
11:02:42	LinusN	oh
11:02:59	Zagor	of course, that is due to _my_ lack of usb-fu :-)
11:03:07	LinusN	:-)
11:03:16	pondlife	Well, perhaps 2 half-fus make a full fu?
11:03:31	LinusN	more like usb-fools
11:03:38	pondlife	fu-sb
11:03:48	LinusN	fu-box
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11:06:45	GodEater	linuxstb: have you tried it on your PP target to see if you get the nasty screeching noise ?
11:07:23	pondlife	It's not changed (aside from resyncing) so it should still screech.
11:08:40	GodEater	I just wasn't sure if linuxstb had ever tested it
11:08:43	pondlife	GodEater: Could you perhaps open a bug on FlySpray for the keyclick-on-PP issue?
11:09:00	pondlife	I'd do it myself, but I've not heard the noise... ;)
11:09:15	pondlife	Woo! Buildy!
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11:09:33	GodEater	pondlife: let me be a good little tester and confirm it in the latest build first ;)
11:09:38	pondlife	Natch
11:10:59	markun	pondlife: which "non-button control" are you talking about?
11:11:10	pondlife	The touch-sensitive sort
11:11:20	GodEater	where there's no tactile feedback
11:11:23	pondlife	Yep
11:13:56	markun	I wrote some code to read X and Y values from the cross (-6 to 6) and still hope we can use it in a nice way
11:15:14	linuxstb	GodEater: No, I've never tried it...
11:15:22	markun	it can also resturn a 'pressure' value
11:16:26	LinusN	how does the cross work with the OF?
11:16:32	LinusN	(never used it)
11:17:01	markun	LinusN: you can jump to some areas (file browser, menu) by sliding on the cross
11:17:11	LinusN	oh
11:17:35	markun	and you can influence the acceleration by moving on the cross
11:17:41	LinusN	would be cool if ff/rew worked faster the harder you push :-)
11:17:48	markun	(slow down by moving more to the center)
11:18:03	GodEater	markun, sounds nifty :)
11:18:33	markun	talking about ff/rew: http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/fluent_accel.diff
11:19:11	markun	anyone care to try thest this patch?
11:19:29	markun	try thest -> test
11:19:36	GodEater	a, build is done
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11:19:42	GodEater	s/a/ah
11:21:44	rasher	Zagor: what happened to the "quite slow, but working" usb support you were considering?
11:22:45	GodEater	pondlife: can't get the screech any more
11:22:57	GodEater	but I do get the occasional actual beep, rather than a click
11:22:57	*	Nico_P thinks cabbie v2.0 looks much better with HelvR12
11:23:04	Nico_P	on the gigabeat
11:23:07	pondlife	GodEater: You already said that, then it came back.
11:23:24	Zagor	I got some problems with that too. and for the last month or so I have had zero time to work on it :-(
11:23:43	GodEater	pondlife: well I can keep testing I suppose
11:23:52	pondlife	Or just use it
11:23:53	GodEater	but I feel wrong opening a bug report for something I can't currently reproduce
11:24:03	pondlife	My point exactly
11:24:18	rasher	Zagor: Ah, pity
11:24:31	*	GodEater hangs his ipod by accidentally going into the recording menu
11:25:13	Shaid	I've done that :)
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11:26:00	GodEater	it's bloody annoying
11:26:15	*	GodEater wishes the ipod's recording menu was a special build
11:26:22	pondlife	Is that a keyclick thing, or does it always do it?
11:27:11	pondlife	Recording works ok on H300 with keyclick.
11:27:14	GodEater	it's "always" done it in the sense that it happens a lot
11:27:22	GodEater	but not absolutely every time
11:27:27	GodEater	sometimes I can get out of it again
11:27:48	cax	hi, I just wanted to know whether anybody is working on making USB not only charge batteries, but transfer files as well. If I understand it right, this is the only thing that prevents Rockbox from being totally independent from the OF.
11:27:50	GodEater	sorry, I just can't live with the keyclick thing
11:28:12	GodEater	cax, that's the plan, but no-one's working on it at the moment due to lack of time
11:28:30	PaulJam	hm, somehow i'm not sure if it is a good idea to commit a buggy feature which can potentially damage your hearing. i don't think everyone reads the changelog and gets the the warning.
11:28:49	GodEater	PaulJam: if they don't read the changelog, they won't even know it's there
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11:29:21	pondlife	PaulJam: The bug is in there regardless of the feature...
11:29:34	GodEater	I'm glad it's disabled by default though - I don't like it personally
11:30:07	PaulJam	GodEater: what if a (new) user just browses the settings.
11:30:47	pondlife	I could ifdef it out for PP targets, but (a) I don't like #ifdefs and (b) it'll never get fixed
11:30:50	GodEater	PaulJam: well it's as pondlife says - the bug is there regardless...
11:31:41	cax	GodEater: so nobody ever worked on file transfer ? No half-working patch, no attempts to adapt code from other projects, nothing to start with ?
11:31:57	GodEater	cax, yes they've worked on it - it just doesn't work yet
11:32:33	*	markun points cax to Zagor
11:32:52	*	GodEater doesn't, since the reason it's not working is because Zagor is too busy with other stuff...
11:33:00	amiconn	cax: The problem isn't the code - the problem is getting the (undocumented) hardware to do what it should
11:33:52	cax	amiconn: so it's again chip/player specific and cannot be done once and for all targets rockbox supports ?
11:34:07	GodEater	cax, very much so - at the moment it's portalplayer specific
11:34:15	GodEater	a lot of our targets don't even allow software usb at all
11:35:06	pixelma	pondlife: what if people randomly try out things (as PaulJam said), especially since this feature is not documented...? ;)
11:35:39	pondlife	I'm not overly concerned, but then I've not heard the noise
11:35:43	rasher	I very much agree with PaulJam.
11:35:54	pondlife	Personally I'd prefer to have pcmbuf fixed
11:36:05	pondlife	Feel free to #ifdef out PP if you wish though
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11:36:21	amiconn	How would that feature be able to damage your hearing??
11:36:31	rasher	amiconn: it outputs garbage on PP targets
11:36:37	GodEater	amiconn: try it and see =/
11:36:45	amiconn	Surely it can't screech louder than what your current volume setting allows
11:36:59	GodEater	I'm not sure it'll actually damage your hearing, but it's very unpleasnt
11:37:13	pondlife	So fix the bug ;)
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11:37:36	GodEater	amount I understand pcm is −−-> <−−-
11:37:37	pixelma	some people tend to listen at too high volumes...
11:37:52	GodEater	you'd be tearing your earphones out in a hurry
11:37:53	rasher	Maybe they're listening to a silent song
11:38:00	GodEater	you could thump the person on the bus next to you....
11:38:07	amiconn	Well, I can't try it now, but I always wanted some feedback from the nasty scroll wheel
11:38:09	pondlife	Think of the lawsuits!
11:38:25	amiconn	Would be nice to have the option to use either pcm or the piezo
11:38:43	pondlife	Do all PP targets have a piezo?
11:38:47	GodEater	is there a piezo in sansas ?
11:38:56	pondlife	Maybe pcmbuf_beep could redirect to that?
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11:39:58	pixelma	haven't heard anything clicky with the OF on c200 at least, don't know whether the scroll wheel Sansa is different there
11:40:24	GodEater	the c200 doesn't have a wheel ?
11:40:45	*	GodEater peers at the picture on the current builds page
11:40:46	pixelma	http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansac200/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-250003
11:40:47	linuxstb	pondlife: The piezo is ipod-specific. AFAIK all ipods have it.
11:40:54	pondlife	Ah, ok
11:41:21	*	GodEater turned it off while he was still using the OF
11:41:22	amiconn	pondlife: Afaik, only the ipods have a piezo
11:41:24	pondlife	piezo would be better as that wouldn't be affected by fades/voice etc.
11:41:49	LinusN	didn't we have a patch for that?
11:41:59	GodEater	we do
11:42:14	amiconn	That patch was a hackish one iirc
11:42:47	GodEater	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5111
11:43:13	GodEater	last updated 23 Nov
11:43:24	GodEater	well - last commented on then
11:43:35	LinusN	how was it hackish?
11:43:42	*	rasher gets a mail from someone wanting to translate into arabic
11:43:59	pondlife	Who owns a PP target and knows pcmbuf well? I can only think of jhMikeS; any other volunteers?
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11:57:16	Bagder	and of course the top-post thread took off...
11:58:06	GodEater	Bagder: I think you need to take a stand on this now. And just start removing people from the list who choose to argue about it. It's been said enough times that the rules aren't up for discussion.
11:58:36	LinusN	i'm not sure i agree
11:58:49	Bagder	I think we should let this settle again first and see what happens
11:58:52	LinusN	sure, top-posting is a nuisance, but it's not the end of the world
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11:59:33	LinusN	i feel the same for the forum rules
11:59:57	LinusN	it's not a good thing to be known as a "hostile" community
12:00
12:00:24	*	GodEater sees little point in having rules if they're not enforced
12:01:02	LinusN	i agree, but you also have to pick your fights
12:01:45	pondlife	I've been on enough unruly forums for this lifetime and am happy to see zero tolerance on enforcement. Maybe in this case the rules are wrong?
12:02:43	LinusN	the rules are good in both cases
12:02:57	LinusN	the problem is that the users don't see the whole picture
12:03:08	LinusN	they don't see the value in searchable archives
12:04:11	GodEater	Bagder: btw - hopefully my build server should resurrected sometime this week
12:04:18	Bagder	great
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12:06:07	Imaginativeone	what IS rockbox?
12:06:39		Quit Imaginativeone (Client Quit)
12:06:57	linuxstb	Now he'll never know...
12:07:42		Part LinusN
12:08:35	petur	I'm sure he'll imagine something....
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12:11:03	Llorean	Just voicing late, I do agree that one problem is that you really can't explain rules and expect everyone to understand why you've chosen them as "the best rules for the job"
12:11:26		Quit Imaginativeone (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:11:34	Llorean	And I do agree it's not beneficial to have a reputation as being a bit of a "hostile" community, but I mean, honestly, we're far from "zero tolerance" as it is, at least in the forums.
12:12:33	Llorean	But you can't choose to ignore some rules violations, without people saying "well why didn't you complain when he did" so I'm not sure as to the solution. "Friendlier" warnings, but then actually enforce the rules more often when the warnings get ignored?
12:13:19	Llorean	on an unlrelated note: Bagder: generally speaking, how much upload speed would be desirable in a build server?
12:13:24	Llorean	unrelated
12:14:15	Bagder	well, the more the better ;-)
12:14:28	Bagder	I'm not sure where the limit actually goes
12:14:50	petur	hmmmm only 11, I thought there were more (15? 16?)
12:14:56	pondlife	Could VMWare be used to make a build server?
12:15:03	GodEater	no reason why not
12:15:30	pondlife	I'm on limited upload bandwidth though - 256kbps
12:15:47	GodEater	that's enough to upload a couple of megs
12:15:54	Llorean	Bagder: Well right now, I have a very slow upload, but I'm possibly moving soon, so I'll be shopping for a new ISP and was wondering what might be a good minimum to look for if I wanted to host one.
12:15:55	GodEater	you don't need bags of bandwidth
12:16:03	petur	another 3 months and I might have 512kbps uplink... maybe it starts to become usable?
12:16:08	cax	I see a very promising "USB-file transfer-and everything else you can imagine" chat in IRC log, dated 16/10/2007, and then a lot of various issues popped out... I think if there exist some show-stoppers, it would be better not to put them on hold, but to share with the community, maybe somebody else can solve these culprits
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12:16:31	Bagder	512kps should indeed be workable
12:16:34	GodEater	cax, the irc log is sharing it with the community
12:16:58	rasher	cax: I do believe the code is also in flyspray
12:17:13	Bagder	I have a 1mbit adsl upload for my host, and my is among the top builders
12:17:35	Llorean	Alright then, I'll probably be setting up a built server come summer then.
12:17:47	linuxstb	Mine is 512kbps, but I think is amongst the bottom...
12:17:58	pondlife	I'll try now...
12:18:25	Bagder	I think what I'm saying that 1mbit is quite enough and more speed isn't really gonna make much of a difference
12:18:46	pondlife	Bagder: Where did you put those instructions for setting up a build server?
12:18:46	Bagder	since we have MUCH faster connected hosts too and it isn't noticable
12:19:00	pondlife	nm, found it
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12:19:34	petur	to have 1mbps uplink would cost me about 20 euro/month extra :(
12:19:38	rasher	Bagder: how does the system cope if a host goes missing?
12:19:46	rasher	(as in not always-on)
12:19:56	Bagder	rasher: it'll just skip it
12:20:09	Bagder	it currently has something like 18 servers it tries to use
12:20:15	GodEater	my upload speed is 768kbps - seemed good enough for me
12:21:52	petur	net access is way too expensive here (for what they offer)....
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12:26:15	*	GodEater pays £19.99 a month for 8Mb/s down and the already stated 768kbp/s up
12:26:33	GodEater	and no limits on usage
12:27:45	*	petur pays 42 euro for 10mbps down 512kbps up, 12GB limit
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12:33:05	Nico_P	I've made some changes to cabbie v2 for gigabeat: http://nicolas.pennequin.free.fr/rockbox/dump%20080121-122949.bmp and http://nicolas.pennequin.free.fr/rockbox/dump%20080121-123018.bmp
12:33:06	Nico_P	what do you think?
12:33:30	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:34:17	Nico_P	to be compared with http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DefaultWPS#240_x_320_16_bit_colour_Toshiba
12:34:59	Nico_P	back in a few minutes
12:39:12	pixelma	even smaller font... though the line with the date at the top of the svn cabbie2 is also weird. But I guess you'd ask the creator.
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12:44:35	markun	Nico_P: you use helvR12, right? Which one was used originally?
12:48:27	Nico_P	markun: yes, HelvR12 instead of HelvR14
12:48:57	Nico_P	pixelma: I found HelvR14 too big (and weird looking too). The ipod 5G version uses HelvR12 too
12:49:13	linuxstb	Is there a reason only one version of Cabbiev2 uses the mix12 font? Or is it just that different people did different ports?
12:50:43	Nico_P	I guess it's just different ports
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12:52:08	Nico_P	hmm nimbus 14 is smaller than HelvR12
12:52:59	amiconn	Llorean: My build server only has 384kbps upload speed available, which is ok-ish
12:55:16	pixelma	Nico_P: font size seem to be a very personal preference, I've seen nimbus-19 on an Ipod Video display and didn't think it was too big - linuxstb said that the Gigabeat's display has similar sized pixels if not a tiny bit smaller ones
12:57:45	Nico_P	yeah it is very personal indeed
12:58:22	Nico_P	I find the current gigabeat version too cluttered
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13:00
13:01:51	linuxstb	Given the theme's purpose (a default), I think it would be better to go for larger fonts - I don't know about other OFs, but at least the ipod video's OF uses a relatively large font. Something similar to the OF would seem sensible.
13:05:26	Nico_P	so you think the video version should use HelvR14 too?
13:05:33	Llorean	Yeah, while I prefer smaller fonts, I think our font needs to be medium-to-large for the default
13:07:06	markun	Nico_P: I use 9+18x18B but maybe that's really too big
13:07:35	linuxstb	Ideally I would like a larger font in the menus/file browser, and smaller fonts in the WPS...
13:07:36	markun	I tried to generate a bold version of HelvR12, but nothing looked really nice
13:07:42	*	linuxstb pokes markun and mentions multifonts ;)
13:08:23	markun	linuxstb: don't expect much from me in the following weeks. I'm trying to get back to studying :(
13:08:33	Nico_P	IMHO HelvR14 looks like a badly scaled version of HelvR12
13:10:00	linuxstb	markun: I know the feeling, this month is too busy for me to do Rockbox things as well...
13:10:11	Casainho_	Hi there! I have question... I am thinking on porting RB to the hardware of Rockbox Player... I don't need a bootloader... what should I do next? - I think that should be writing drivers... for what drivers should I start doing? anyu adices? :-)
13:10:19	Casainho_	any advices?
13:10:54	linuxstb	I'm sure you will need a bootloader...
13:11:01	Bagder	Casainho_: try the NewPort page
13:11:35	Bagder	reading buttons, use lcd and reading the flash (for fs) are usually high prio
13:12:26	Casainho_	Bagder: I read and finish on page PortingHowTo, and finish that page also
13:13:01	Bagder	so why don't you need a bootloader?
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13:14:04	Casainho_	I am thinking in make a plan for porting, I need to know what should be the first steps, first drivers... - first first, I plan to do a blink led using RB kernel...
13:14:33	Bagder	I wouldn't do it in that order
13:14:45	Bagder	I would start with making a bootloader
13:14:48	Casainho_	Bagder: Bootloader or not bootloader? reading the some TWiki pages about develop a new port, write a bootloader is the first task. I tried to figure out if there will be the need of a bootloader and talked on IRC, It looks like will not be necessary because the AT91SAM9260 already have one in his ROM Cheesy - It can bootload by USB, serial port, JTAG and others options. About that bootloader: The
13:14:49	Casainho_	SAM Boot Assistant (SAM-BATM) software provides a means of easily programming different Atmel ® AT91SAM ARM ® Thumb ® -based devices. It runs under Windows®2000 and XP.
13:14:51	Casainho_	Communicating with the target device may be done through an RS232, USB or JTAG link.
13:14:52	Casainho_	Ready more here: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/...rod_documents/doc6132.pdf
13:15:01	Bagder	whoa
13:15:39	Bagder	I won't tell you what to do, but that's surely an odd decision imho
13:15:43	Casainho_	Bagder: sorry, I did wrote that on forum, you should not read because of no notification on EDIT posts
13:16:15	Casainho_	Bagder: what is you opinion? - please say, advice :-)
13:16:23	Bagder	write a bootloader
13:16:28	Bagder	make the device start up to run that code
13:16:42	Casainho_	well, I don't understand the need of a bootloader...
13:16:43	markun	maybe using u-boot as a bootloader would be an option
13:16:46	Bagder	make the bootloader load rockbox from nand, then execute rockbox
13:16:58	Bagder	yes, u-boot is a very good idea
13:17:06	Bagder	since it probably is more or less working on that board
13:17:12	markun	I hope it fits in the 16K flash
13:17:18	Casainho_	I have no experience... I don't know...
13:17:20	Bagder	uhm
13:17:30	Bagder	16K for u-boot is... gonna take some major stripping
13:17:50	Bagder	I've used an older version and I was at ~90K iirc
13:17:51	markun	(there is only 16K, right?
13:17:57	Bagder	(on arm9)
13:18:35	Bagder	Casainho_: the rockbox image lies on the nand in a fat file system
13:18:41	Bagder	Casainho_: how will rockbox start?
13:18:44	Casainho_	can't I upload the code by JTAG and put it running?
13:19:02	Bagder	you gonna carry around a jtag programming device?
13:19:11	Casainho_	oh, I thought It was a "normal" .hex file...
13:19:21	Bagder	what?
13:19:52	Bagder	I doubt your mcu can load and execute images from fat32 on the nand
13:19:53	Casainho_	well, in AVR8 bits that I use, I build with GCC-AVR and upload to the MCU, a .hex file...
13:20:10	Bagder	you still talk about development
13:20:17	Bagder	I speak of actually running rockbox on the target
13:20:31	Bagder	since that's what you're about to develop
13:20:42	Bagder	with no upload, no jtag, no cables
13:20:46	Bagder	just flash and mcu
13:21:01	Bagder	how does the mcu start rockbox?
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13:21:22	linuxstb	Casainho_: Most targets will have a first-stage bootloader, then the Rockbox bootloader, then the main Rockbox firmware. This is normally to a) enable dual-boot with the original firmware (not an issue for you); but also b) to make it easy to upgrade Rockbox (bootloader installation is normally more work than just unzipping a file).
13:22:11	Bagder	remember that rockbox gets updated very frequently so you want to make it easy to just unzip a fresh release
13:23:01	Casainho_	I am busy but reading
13:23:24	Bagder	in fact, I would do it this way:
13:23:37	Bagder	first level bootloader, just loads u-boot from somewhere and executes it
13:23:55	Bagder	u-boot being second level bootloader would then read rockbox from fat, and allow tftp etc
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13:57:24	Bagder	Casainho_: but you still haven't answered my question. Can you see any alternative to booting from the dataflash in the rockboxplayerv1 ?
13:57:25	pondlife	Bagder: I've got VMWare set up and able to compile Rockbox. Could you help me (a total Linux n00b) towards making it a build server?
13:57:26	Bagder	(bloody splits)
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13:57:40	Bagder	can't do that now, I'm about to dash off to have an afternoon with Rex, 15 months :-)
13:58:00	pondlife	OK no worries
13:58:03	linuxstb	pondlife: Can you ssh to your vmware box from the internet?
13:58:42	pondlife	linuxstb: Not sure... try it perhaps, although I might need to forward ports.
13:58:48	linuxstb	I don't know how your vmware is setup, but I normally give vmware a static IP address, and then you can port-forward to it.
13:59:07	pondlife	Well, the PC it's on has a static IP
13:59:10	*	Bagder aways
13:59:26	pondlife	What's the Linux command to find out the IP address?
13:59:29	petur	pondlife: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuildServer
13:59:33	GodEater	pondlife: ifconfig
13:59:35	pondlife	Yep, read that
13:59:36	linuxstb	/sbin/ifconfig
13:59:41	Casainho_	linuxstb: can you please see this? : http://atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc6132.pdf
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14:00
14:01:56	linuxstb	Casainho_: What about it? That seems to be a Windows application...
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14:03:30	Casainho_	- Performs in-system programming through JTAG, RS232 or USB interfaces
14:03:31	Casainho_	- Target device memory control: read, write, erase, configure, verify, etc.
14:03:33	Casainho_	It lloks like the software for PC to boot the MCU!!
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14:03:56	Casainho_	MCU have a bootloader to use that Sam-ba
14:04:45	linuxstb	I'm guessing all that does is to upload an application onto the device (via usb/serial/jtag boot), and then communicates with that application. Similar to e200tool.
14:05:29	Casainho_	so, should be the need of one bootloader?
14:05:34	Casainho_	bootloader for RB?
14:07:54	Casainho_	I think it can upload the application to device and after the device run application.... could RB run like that?
14:08:12	GodEater	you'd want to do this whenever you turn it on ?!?
14:09:47	Casainho_	GodEater: no, I belive that I can write the application on flash mem
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14:11:01	GodEater	then I'm not sure what you're asking
14:11:27	pondlife	Hmm, I've knacked my VMWare <-> Debian network connection :/
14:12:05	pondlife	Reboot it, I guess...
14:12:05	GodEater	well done ;)
14:12:27	XavierGr	Casaihno: from my understanding AVRs and maybe more atmel chips, have have various ways to program them. ISP, high voltage serial programming, jtag etc
14:12:50	pondlife	I assumed that putting back the original address/mask would be enough...
14:13:11	XavierGr	you could of course program rockbox with one of these methods programming it with a binary hex file, but this won't be practical for every day usage
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14:13:56	Casainho_	eheh, I am a bit loose here :-)
14:14:04	XavierGr	because all these methods are for developers
14:14:41	XavierGr	Casainho: many avrs have bootloader capability meaning that you can program the device with a binary hex file that will be the bootloader of the device
14:15:37	XavierGr	then the bootloader can load further code (if you instruct/program it the right way of course) to make e.g run rockbox from a flash disk or hard disk (depends on your peripherals)
14:15:46	Casainho_	I just know that the system can boot from Flash on board... and that flash can be programed by JTAG, USB, RS232...
14:16:03	Casainho_	I don't understandt how to boot Rb :-)
14:16:08	XavierGr	yeah it can be programmed, but that isn't practical
14:16:32	XavierGr	it is not practial to connect your hardware on jtag or rs232
14:16:58	linuxstb	Casainho_: booting Rockbox is the bootloader's job... You write a bootloader that you program (once) into the flash, then install Rockbox itself on the FAT32 filesystem.
14:17:20	linuxstb	The bootloader is just a cut-down version of Rockbox, with LCD/disk/FAT32/button etc drivers
14:17:25	XavierGr	it is much simpler to write a good bootloader, program it once with jtag, rs232, parallel, etc and then just update using usb or something like that (the bootloader then should load the code to your hardware)
14:19:14	Casainho_	so bootloader + RB will reside in the same IC flash?
14:20:15	XavierGr	from my understanding flash should have only the bootloader, then load the rockbox binary to sram
14:20:52	XavierGr	but yeah you could have both of them in flash, but that would require to enable the rockbox flash plugin for your target
14:21:31	XavierGr	for starters try to make a bootloader that will load code from your peripherals, (if you have at this point)
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14:24:42	XavierGr	Casainho: but what do you have in your hands right now, because all these sounds quite theoritical...
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14:26:03	XavierGr	jeesh what a ride, these netsplits are humongous!
14:27:10		Quit jac0b ("Ex-Chat")
14:27:46	Casainho_	XavierGr: I just have an LCD, I will buy the dev board soon - I have all documentaiont, datasheets :-)
14:29:32	Casainho_	where can I put long text descritpiton? pastbin?
14:30:28	Casainho_	ah, okok : http://pastebin.com/m187cbe52
14:30:40	Casainho_	XavierGr: can you read that pastbin?
14:33:17	XavierGr	Casainho: the I guess you are in a very early developing stage
14:33:32	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:33:35	XavierGr	the=then
14:33:48	XavierGr	I don't know if a bootloader will have any meaning for you at this stage
14:35:05	XavierGr	does the devboard has any USB interface ready?
14:36:25		Quit \|AhIoRoS\| (Remote closed the connection)
14:38:03	XavierGr	Casainho: I am reading the device description now...
14:38:24		Quit spr0k3t (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:39:52	Casainho_	XavierGr: yes, the dev board have USB and serial port :-)
14:40:18	Casainho_	you can read more about what has been done and what is planned: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayerV1
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14:42:11	XavierGr	does your devboard have any external sdram and/or nand flash for storage?
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14:43:44	Nico_P	linuxstb: have you seen the comment I posted quite some time ago about your modified buildzip.pl for bmptar?
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14:44:01	XavierGr	Casainho: I see that this chip has an interface for external memory, if your devobard provides it and has the USB connections ready, you could indeed start writing a bootloader
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14:44:53	Casainho_	dev board have 2 flash memories :-) - one serial flash and other paralerl, nand flash
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14:45:50	Casainho_	and the MCU can boot from any of the 2
14:45:57	markun	and how big are they?
14:45:59	XavierGr	how much storage?
14:46:23	Casainho_	well, the serial just 1M word
14:47:02	Casainho_	the other the other, 512 M bytes
14:47:10	markun	and word = 32 bits?
14:47:41	markun	the Gigabeat has 1MB and that's more than enough for a bootloader
14:47:42	Casainho_	markun: no :-) weheh mistake
14:48:14	Casainho_	markun: the gigabeat have 1MB for bootloaer? where stays RB?
14:48:26	markun	on the HDD of course
14:48:50	markun	on most players we store rockbox on disc
14:48:56	markun	disk
14:48:58	XavierGr	Casainho: in your case you could store the rb firmware on the 512MB memory
14:49:49	Casainho_	well, I pretend to do a flash based player, could I done with just one flash IC? - that IC having the bootloader + RB?
14:49:57	XavierGr	so you need to program your device with a bootloader that will handle a simple lcd driver, button driver, minimal usb interface and a driver for your storage
14:50:55	Casainho_	XavierGr: okok, I think I am starting to understand... that bootloader will comunicate with FAT system on big flash IC...
14:51:19	XavierGr	yes and load the rockbox firmaware to run it
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14:51:29	XavierGr	of course I don't know a thing about the details :P
14:51:51	Casainho_	but doing like this, I need 2 ICs :-(
14:51:58	XavierGr	this is just some high level understanding from what I read
14:52:10	Casainho_	one for bootloader and other for FAT system.... :-(
14:52:17	XavierGr	but your devboard already has them right?
14:52:20	Casainho_	or no?
14:52:33	Casainho_	but I want to do a chepa player!!
14:52:50		Quit ctaylorr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:53:03	Casainho_	well, how do Sansa work? - maybe It's possible to have bootloader and RB in the same IC...
14:54:11	XavierGr	I don't think I can help you further than that, but I am jealous of your devboard, you can have quite some fun with it :)
14:57:44	Casainho_	XavierGr: well, you can also jump to the boat :-)
14:58:09	Casainho_	is just a case to have money to spend for buy that tools, LCD, audio dac, dev board... :-)
14:58:13	Casainho_	I go lunch
14:58:17	Casainho_	that you all :-)
15:00
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15:11:08	aliask	Looks like I've found out how to turn off the Gigabeat via software (and it doesn't need to just be "put to sleep" like the F/X)
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15:13:39	GodEater	aliask: and have you sorted out the interrupts too ?
15:14:49	aliask	Nope, I've been playing with them for about an hour, trying to replicate as much as possible from the example code (which is used on the imx31 dev board)
15:14:59	aliask	But no luck
15:16:29	GodEater	and no sign of ptw419 ?
15:17:46	aliask	I haven't seen him, and he hasn't replied to Nico_P's emails either, unfortunately
15:17:53	GodEater	bugger
15:18:15	Nico_P	aliask: I sent the example code to jhMikeS and XavierGr
15:18:35	aliask	Ah good, I hope they have time to take a look.
15:18:39	Nico_P	indeed
15:18:50	Nico_P	or that ptw419 turns up
15:19:48	Nico_P	pixelma: do you have a WPS for the X5 or M5 that uses a backdrop in the rwps?
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15:48:53	bucko	Hey, guys! I just bought a Sandisk Sansa (V2) and the retarded lack of use of the "track number" ID3 field is more than irritating.
15:49:26	bucko	I hear RockBox doesn't work on the V2, but forum posts seem to indicate it's possible it can be made to work. Does anyone know what skills are needed on that front?
15:50:30	bucko	(I think the SOC is different to any others that Rockbox runs on, but I didn't even know what a SOC was until yesterday...)
15:50:35	pixelma	Nico_P: I have one - still pretty basic but it exists
15:50:53	Nico_P	pixelma: could you send it to me? it's to test the bmptar patch
15:52:05	Febs	bucko: you'll want to look at this forum thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.0
15:53:00	bucko	Yeah, I think I read this one. :)
15:53:57	pixelma	Nico_P: sure, have to make a nice package first though. It only contains 3 bmps altogether (main and remote backdrop, and a progress bar bmp which is even unused IIRC) but should serve the purpose
15:54:28	bucko	Should I just post to the thread and ask? The thread's a bit of a mess, and I didn't find even anything conclusive about if anyone's even changed basic test strings in the firmware.
15:55:08	Nico_P	pixelma: thanks, and don't bother too much about the package ;)
15:55:13	pixelma	Nico_P: does the patch allow loading rwps and wps independently, I think this is possible currently.
15:55:31	Nico_P	yes, it should work exactly the same as before
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15:56:39	pixelma	do you also need a config file?
15:57:39	Nico_P	pixelma: not if you tell me which font to use
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16:40:04	mf0102	hey people, cool that you added a new theme (cabbiev2)!
16:40:42	mf0102	unfortunately, i think some files are missing, because "make install" says the following:
16:40:44	mf0102	cp: cannot stat `/home/michi/downloads/rockbox-bleeding/backdrops/cabbiev2.176x220x16.bmp': No such file or directory
16:40:44	mf0102	cp: cannot stat `/home/michi/downloads/rockbox-bleeding/icons/tango_small.bmp': No such file or directory
16:40:44	DBUG	Enqueued KICK mf0102
16:40:44	mf0102	cp: cannot stat `/home/michi/downloads/rockbox-bleeding/icons/tango_small_viewers.bmp': No such file or directory
16:41:01	mf0102	have i done something wrong here?
16:41:17	amiconn	Do you use svn or a tarball?
16:41:21	mf0102	tarball
16:41:30	petur	maybe you forgot ../tools/configure?
16:41:38	mf0102	no, i did that ;-)
16:41:42	mf0102	everything else builds fine
16:42:10	mf0102	petur, however, i wrote "tools/configure" from the main directory rockbox-bleeding, is that okay?
16:42:13	amiconn	Looks like who added cabbie2 forgot to update FILES
16:42:47	amiconn	Happens every now and then. Using svn is recommended anyway. The alternative is waiting for someone to fix FILES, and hence the tarballs
16:43:08	mf0102	yeah
16:43:21	petur	amiconn: he did add *.bmp (http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/wps/FILES?r1=16126;r2=16127)
16:44:06	mf0102	i think that he just forgot to commit some bmp files
16:44:30	amiconn	petur: But not icons/ and backdrops/ ...
16:44:41	petur	aha
16:45:23	amiconn	Imo wps/, icons/ and backdrops/ should be moved into a (new) top-level dir "themes/"
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16:45:27	linuxstb	Hmm, is that a good place for them? Shouldn't they be better somewhere under wps? (maybe renaming wps to themes) ?
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16:45:42	linuxstb	... what amiconn just said ;)
16:45:54	mf0102	;)
16:46:17	linuxstb	Seems the restoration of unifont.bdf lost the SVN history as well...
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16:50:08	Nico_P	linuxstb: he shouldv'e copied the file
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16:51:42	linuxstb	Nico_P: That's what I told him...
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16:53:52	Nico_P	hmm I think I've got it restored properly in my tree
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16:59:48	Nico_P	linuxstb: seen my comment about wpsbuild.pl?
17:00
17:01:53	linuxstb	Nico_P: I've just read the latest comments now. (assuming you're talking about FS #6571 ?)
17:02:21	linuxstb	When you talk about backdrop, do you mean the WPS backdrop, or the main Rockbox backdrop?
17:02:31	Nico_P	linuxstb: yes. I posted a comment quite some time ago about wpsbuild.pl not working correctly with rwps
17:02:39	Nico_P	I'm talking about the WPS backdrop
17:03:46	linuxstb	Yes, I remember you mentioning it in IRC as well...
17:04:28	Nico_P	what the script should do is create a tar containing the bitmaps for both the wps and rwps
17:04:57	linuxstb	Maybe the solution would be the ability to specify the bitmap location (tar file or directory) in the .cfg (or maybe .wps). So you would use different tar files/subdirs for the two different WPSs. (I'm assuming they share a directory at the moment?)
17:05:23	Nico_P	yeah the wps and rwps share a dir
17:06:06	Nico_P	I like the idea of specifying the bitmap path in the WPS... could allow using the same bitmaps for multiple wps
17:06:17	linuxstb	That's what I was thinking...
17:06:52	Nico_P	but I think we should keep it one change at a time... it's not really the same thing
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17:07:45	rasher	Bagder: I expect that fixing the buildserver script to work with non-bash is as simple as using printf rather than echo in line 23
17:11:37	Nico_P	linuxstb: do you think you could fix the wpsbuild.pl patch?
17:14:54	linuxstb	Nico_P: So you think the .tar should contain both the main and remote bitmaps? Wouldn't two tars be better?
17:15:34	Nico_P	linuxstb: currently the dir contains the bitmaps for both the wps and the rwps
17:16:03	Nico_P	I guess the easiest way is to do the same for now and allow more flexibility later on
17:17:23	linuxstb	But aren't the .wps files loaded separately, meaning that the same (large) .tar file will be scanned twice?
17:17:45	Nico_P	hmm yeah, that's true
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17:20:34	Casainho_	:-) - I would like to know what this means "#define DRAM_START 0x31000000"
17:20:56	linuxstb	Which part don't you understand/
17:20:57	linuxstb	?
17:21:06	linuxstb	Do you know #defines in general in C?
17:22:56	Casainho_	linuxstb: yes, defines yes :-) - DRAM_START?
17:23:19	Casainho_	thats a value for all archs?
17:23:25	Casainho_	the same vlaue?
17:24:30	Casainho_	I am reading: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/bootloader/main.c?revision=15721&view=markup
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17:28:49	bucko	Hmmm, I've found some strings embedded in the e280's firmware.
17:29:27	bucko	It looks like they're encoded in ASCII with a null after each letter and a double null after each string.
17:29:33	bucko	Is that UTF-16 or something?
17:29:45	rasher	sounds like it.
17:29:52	rasher	Is there anything interesting?
17:30:07	bucko	Well, there's the strings it displays onscreen. :)
17:30:17	linuxstb	Casainho_: bootloader/main.c is the Coldfire bootloader (it should probably be renamed now - it was the very first bootloader, which is why it's called main.c). Other bootloaders are in other files (main-pp.c for generic portalplayer, ipod.c for ipod etc)
17:30:19	bucko	If I can edit them and get them to take, it'll vbe a start.
17:30:45	linuxstb	bucko: Are you talking about the e280v2's firmware?
17:30:50	bucko	Yeah.
17:31:11	linuxstb	Then yes, changing strings and getting the firmware accepted will be a good start.
17:31:15	bucko	The forum thread seemed to indicate no-one could find anything in it, so I dug for a while to see what I could get.
17:31:33	Casainho_	linuxstb: I would like to know a good arch to look at for making the bootloaler for RB player
17:31:34	Ctcp	Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
17:31:34	*	bucko tries to find something unique.
17:31:42	rasher	Didn't Bagder already crack this nut, or was that only for the clip?P
17:32:34	bucko	I don't know?
17:32:35	linuxstb	Casainho_: As you can see in that directory, the bootloaders are really quite simple. All the hard work is in the target-specific code in firmware/.
17:33:06	linuxstb	rasher: I didn't think it was 100% cracked. And I don't think anyone has tested his theories yet by running modified firmwares. But I could be wrong...
17:33:12	bucko	Badger details the firmware format on his /v2/ page.
17:33:51	rasher	bucko: http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2007/12/05/i-solved-the-ams-sansas-firmware-checksum-puzzle/
17:34:16	rasher	linuxstb: Ah, I guess it could be that it's just not verified yet
17:34:51		Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:34:58	linuxstb	rasher: He also mentions that there are some other still unknown fields in the header...
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17:35:17	bucko	Looks like these strings live outside of the checksum, too.
17:36:22	linuxstb	Casainho_: What kind of ARM core does your CPU have? (I'm assuming it's ARM....)
17:36:48	*	bucko crosses fingers and disconnects the Sansa.
17:36:50	*	linuxstb goes to read the wiki page...
17:37:22	bucko	Well, it's trying to update.
17:37:49	bucko	It didn't die...
17:38:34	bucko	And the string I set didn't stick.
17:38:48	Casainho_	linuxstb: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayerV1
17:38:57	Casainho_	linuxstb: sorry, not mucjh to time to toalk
17:40:10	Nico_P	linuxstb: does "wpsname.wps.tar" and "wpsname.rwps.tar" sound ok?
17:41:17	Casainho_	linuxstb: so, I drivers on firmware are realy importante...
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17:42:17	saratoga	bucko: did you update the checksum after changing those strings?
17:42:21	linuxstb	Casainho_: Yes. I see it's an arm926ej-s core, so the code for the M:Robe 500 might be helpful.
17:42:39	bucko	saratoga: I ran the checksum.c over the file but it was unchanged.
17:42:48	bucko	I guess the strings are outside of the checksum range.
17:43:05	Casainho_	linuxstb: I will register that sugestion about M:Robe 500
17:43:22	petur	bucko: or you didn't save the file or you wrote the wrong file ;)
17:43:35	bucko	I only have one copy, and used File->Save in ghex. ^.^
17:43:36	linuxstb	Nico_P: Maybe -wps.tar and -rwps.tar - two extensions can be confusing for some people (especially if the OS strips one of them when showing a file listing)
17:43:47	Nico_P	ok
17:44:51	saratoga	bucko: is the string you changed within the range specified by the header's "checksum data range" field?
17:45:01	Nico_P	linuxstb: ok, done.
17:45:09	bucko	saratoga: I'm guessing not.
17:45:18	bucko	Is that the only range which is actually written?
17:45:49	saratoga	Bagder's blog suggests that the tool just scans the file up to the length specified in the header
17:45:54	bucko	I'm editing at around 0x00375f14
17:46:24	saratoga	whats the word at 0xc say?
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17:47:14	bucko	20D80100
17:47:18	bucko	I think.
17:47:37	bucko	ghex2 seems to want to make the display 13 bytes wide, which is confusing me.
17:48:46	bucko	The bytes are all in reverse (little endian?) for the values though, so I guess that's "really" 0001D820.
17:49:23	saratoga	so the header only covers the first ~ 120kb
17:50:03	saratoga	is there anything interesting at 0x0001D820? maybe another header
17:50:05	bucko	The string C\0o\0n\0n\0e\0c\0t\0e\0d appears nowhere else in the file, though, and I definately copied over this version.
17:50:14	bucko	I'll take a look.
17:51:23	bucko	Hmmm.
17:52:25	bucko	OK, assuming my counting is right, there does look like /some/ seperation there.
17:52:32	bucko	Separation.
17:53:27	saratoga	its possible the firmware file is several smaller files TARed together, each with their own header
17:53:28	bucko	There's a tonne of nulls, with occasionaly small values in the middle, then that index seems to mark the start of some new code.
17:53:55	bucko	It seems a bit odd: The firmware is 16MB and full of 0xdeadbeef padding.
17:54:28	bucko	That sort of thing seems like a space saving technique, and they very definitely aren't trying too hard to save space.
17:54:47	saratoga	its not about saving space
17:54:55	bucko	There doesn't seem to be a new header there, though.
17:54:59	saratoga	its about making an image that can be copied into a 16MB ROM space
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17:56:32	bucko	There's all sorts of really odd stuff embedded; I think there's a slab of Microsoft code (PlaysForSure?) which mentions writing CDs.
17:57:24	linuxstb	It's probably just a binary library from MS.
17:57:39	bucko	Yeah.
17:59:50	bucko	Oh; there's this "trailing 4 byte checksum" which this particular firmware seems to contain.
18:00
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18:03:51	bucko	0x0033DE00 seems to be the start of a new section just prior to the strings.
18:04:02	bucko	It contains the string HEADER just after, which is interesting.
18:06:22	saratoga	why do they use deadbeef as padding
18:06:27	bucko	Who knows.
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18:09:40	bucko	It's definately cutting out early in the update - upgrading to a real firmware happens much slower, and has a success message (I didn't get one).
18:10:06	Buschel	saratoga: you new low voltage experiment shows no saving in current consumption? this kind of differs from the former measurement
18:11:51	saratoga	Buschel: yes I think something is wrong with my testing
18:12:06	saratoga	i may not have been doing it correctly
18:12:23	saratoga	i need to figure out a way a way to read those registers and see what the inital values were
18:12:38	Casainho_	bye bey :-)
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18:13:06	Buschel	saratoga: wasn't there some patch to do so? or was this for pcf?
18:13:22	bucko	Interesting.
18:14:40	saratoga	Buschel: i was just going through the register map for that chip and seeing what the voltage control registers did to power consumption
18:14:45	bucko	0x001DC20 is the start of a big mass of 0xff padding. The header checksum length is 0x001D820, and header length is 0x400. It adds up.
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18:27:09	saratoga	bucko: it looks like 1d820 is just another header
18:27:17	bucko	Yeah.
18:27:25	saratoga	if you go ahead another 0xc bytes, theres another length field
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18:27:32	bucko	The first byte is (approximately) the distance to the next block of 0xFF padding.
18:27:35	webguest94	does anyone know if and when the archos 404 will be supported?
18:27:54	bucko	s/byte/32 bit int/
18:28:11	saratoga	which takes you to the start of yet another header
18:28:36	Domonoky	webguest94: as always no date.. and no one has begun working on this player..
18:29:41	webguest94	well the os source for it has been released.
18:30:06	webguest94	going on 2 years now.
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18:30:22	Nimdae	i think that was pretty well known, heh
18:30:26	bucko	I wonder if the first word is the offset to write to?
18:30:28	saratoga	i think you can just walk the file by parsing the 13th byte in each header, then jumping ahead that many bytes and finally moving down until you read the nearest address with a xxxx00 location
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18:30:51	saratoga	i did it 3 times in a row and each time i ended up inside a new header
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18:31:12	krazykit	webguest94, well, if you want a port for the player, start it. ports are done by those with the player.
18:31:15	bucko	Where's the second header?
18:31:18	bucko	Um, third?
18:31:39	Nimdae	heh, i just updated rockbox, like the new cabbie2 theme, very close to the one i made and had been using for a long time
18:32:55	webguest94	i've never ported for non-computer components before.
18:33:23	Nimdae	there's always a first time
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18:33:42	saratoga	theres a lot of headers, the file seems to be composed of ~100 to 200kb chunks
18:33:55	bucko	Mmmm.
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18:34:17	saratoga	each one starts with a header that tells how long it is, then theres some padding so that the next one is 2^8 aligned and finally a new header
18:34:55	Nimdae	just out of curiosity, what are yall hacking?
18:35:04	bucko	Sansa e280.
18:35:21	Nimdae	ah
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18:35:43	saratoga	what i don't understand is why the padding is sometimes much larger
18:36:09	saratoga	at 68C10 theres a deadbeef section that lasts 0x19200 bytes
18:36:17	saratoga	and the header just points to the top of it
18:36:30	bucko	Worrying.
18:36:44	saratoga	i don't know how you're supposed to know to skip past it aside from looking at it and realizing its giberish
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18:37:04	*	bucko redownloads the firmware and backs it up this time.
18:37:26	saratoga	but yeah, i bet you could edit that string you tried if you paged up looking for its header and then updated that checksum too
18:37:38	saratoga	i bet it works the same way
18:37:49	bucko	I'm about to try that.
18:37:54	bucko	Hence rdownloading. :)
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18:38:17	saratoga	and if not, you could pick two firmware files and compare headers, shouldn't be too hard to find what changes since theres so many headers to look at
18:38:28	saratoga	one of them is bound to give it away
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18:41:09	bucko	I set it to Cpnnected (+1 to 3rd byte), then added 1 to the third byte of the (I assume) checksum.
18:41:14	bucko	Let's see if it explodes.
18:41:46	webguest94	well, thanks anyways. gonna have to do some research.
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18:42:57	bucko	Well, no explosion, but no luck either.
18:43:24	webguest94	good luck with the sansa.
18:43:39	bucko	I think I'll need it. :)
18:45:41	bucko	At 0x0030be00 there's exactly 0x100 bytes of 0xff in the middle of the 0xdeadbeef padding. I wonder why.
18:46:57	saratoga	i wonder if the deadbeef padding is space for data on the flash memory
18:47:19	saratoga	thats only stored after the OS is running
18:47:23	saratoga	only thing i can think of
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18:48:25	bucko	Hmmm.
18:48:36	bucko	The media library and settings seem to be stored on the main flash, though.
18:48:46	saratoga	anyway, good luck bucko, and if you get anyway be sure to update bagder's checksum.c file
18:49:33	bucko	Mmm, thanks. :)
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18:49:54	bucko	The header at 0x33ddc0 (just before the text strings) appears different.
18:50:28	bucko	At 0x8 it has the ASCII "HEADER".
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19:27:46	countrymonkey	Could tasks 7578 and 7669 be closed as rejected?
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19:40:04	phaxer	any zune experts?
19:40:23	phaxer	can you use a Zune as an external USB drive on an XP machine?
19:40:26	Bagder	this is rockbox, it doesn't run on zune
19:40:49	phaxer	I thought tha forum said it did... ;-(
19:40:52	phaxer	sorry
19:41:19	krazykit	if it was supported, it would say on the front page, with the other targets
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19:42:16	scorche\|w	phaxer: where did you see it say it did?
19:42:31	phaxer	I was mistaken... I guess it was wishful thinking
19:42:37	phaxer	wishful reading
19:43:12	countrymonkey	Linuxspb: How did you make fs#7769?
19:43:12	phaxer	can the Zune be used as an external USB drive without Rockbox, out of the MS box?
19:43:18	countrymonkey	Linuxspb: How did you make fs#7769?
19:43:28	Bagder	phaxer: that's off-topic here, try a zune forum
19:43:28	countrymonkey	Sory for the double post.
19:43:54	krazykit	countrymonkey, and neither time you got linuxstb's nick right ;-)
19:43:58		Quit Mathias ("Yuuw!")
19:45:47	countrymonkey	Well...
19:46:01		Quit phaxer ("Client Exiting")
19:46:22	*	scorche\|w starts chanting "tab complete..tab complete..."
19:46:42	countrymonkey	about what?
19:46:48	JdGordon\|w	cuntrycunkey: well what? people's irc clients dont magically flash when the nick isnt spelt right...
19:47:14	scorche\|w	JdGordon\|w: the foul language isnt appreciated here! ;)
19:47:23	Bagder	... unless you have a nick people spell wrong 98% of the times so you have a custom pattern for the bad spell ;-)
19:47:23	JdGordon\|w	typos....
19:47:47	scorche\|w	you say soemthing badger?
19:47:58	Bagder	:-P
19:48:05	krazykit	countrymonkey, it looks like he added a bunch of tex functions to all the targets' manuals, then added the actually text to main.tex (though i'm not familiar with tex)
19:48:06	scorche\|w	regex is lovely for names
19:48:07	JdGordon\|w	Bagder: I have a quad core 3.2 and a dual core 1.8 which are on slightly faster upload than I have at home.. just need to get lostlogic to forward some ssh ports.. if you wanna use em
19:48:27	Bagder	sounds like good additions to the pool!
19:48:48		Quit Mathiasdm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:49:07	countrymonkey	fs#7669. My task numbers are always off by one digit in the hundreds place value for some reason.
19:49:29	*	Bagder goes to do what he actually was supposed to do instead of chatting here...
19:50:09	jac0b	with viewports can you resize albumart?
19:50:39	jac0b	nm I figured it out
19:50:46	scorche\|w	viewports is different than bmp resizing...
19:50:56	jac0b	yeah I know
19:51:09	jac0b	I have bmp resize and viewports
19:51:19	krazykit	countrymonkey, presumably he ran each string through the aoler translator and translated it that way.
19:51:45	jac0b	but the albumart was looking bigger but I fixed it I just had to put 0's for the placment on the aa tag
19:51:53	countrymonkey	Oh, I thought he had a prog or bat do it for him.
19:52:12	jac0b	one more thing about viewports
19:52:23		Quit Mathiasdm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:52:34	jac0b	why does my font has the default system font onthe menus
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19:53:58	jac0b	how I edit the list fonts
19:54:38	stel	Buschel: my e200 flac test has just finished... 21:31:37 :-)
19:55:11	scorche\|w	21 hours on a sansa?
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19:55:31	countrymonkey	I'm buying one of those babies. Is it a c or e200?
19:55:34	stel	yepp, using Buschels patch
19:56:09	stel	countrymonkey: e280
19:56:57	countrymonkey	Just what I need. What p # is it?
19:57:28	stel	p #?
19:57:29	scorche\|w	search..
19:58:31	countrymonkey	I have no clue. I don't have much to search on. All I know is it increases bat life.
19:58:52	stel	8379
19:59:08	countrymonkey	thx.
20:00
20:00:55		Quit homielowe ()
20:04:22	jac0b	in the sim is there a way to refresh the theme without going thru the menu to reselect the theme
20:04:28		Quit m0f0x_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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20:12:06	kugel	turn it off
20:12:07	rasher	jac0b: no, but it's not a bad idea
20:12:40	jac0b	yes it would be a great idea if I knew how to code
20:12:56	*	JdGordon\|w really starting to not like how themes are handled in settings
20:12:59	jac0b	hey do you know about the viewport patchs
20:14:08	jac0b	my question is there is a viewport_lists patch in the viewports patch page but there is also another patch called lists in viewports
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20:14:20	jac0b	which one should be used
20:14:54	kugel	JdGordon\|w: Would be nice if you clear the dust in FS #8457
20:16:03	jac0b	kugel: that is my question
20:16:17	kugel	What?
20:16:18	jac0b	that wasn't me but I have the same question
20:16:25	linuxstb	jac0b: FS #8457 replaces what was in the other task.
20:16:31	kugel	You're not the only one
20:16:49	jac0b	linuxstb: thanks
20:17:00	jac0b	that is what I thought but you never know
20:18:22	linuxstb	kugel: What do you mean? (about FS #8457)
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20:19:13	kugel	See the latest comment
20:19:51	linuxstb	Isn't it obvious that the new version of the patch is the newest?
20:20:04	kugel	as well as "Cool!, does this require your patch on the viewports page?" from tdooke as of january 1st
20:20:05	kugel	14th
20:20:17	DogBoy	heh
20:20:22	linuxstb	Reading the comments, I guess it's not obvious...
20:20:29	kugel	jup
20:20:53	*	linuxstb shrugs
20:20:55	kugel	for me it was pretty obvious, though a definite answer is appreciated
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20:23:01	JdGordon\|w	... going by the dates alone and the fact that if you try using the older one it obviously wotn work should have been enouhg for prople to figure out which one to use....
20:23:59	*	linuxstb has posted a comment to say that
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20:24:26	linuxstb	JdGordon\|w: It could be helpful if you didn't just call every patch file "changes" though ;)
20:29:55	JdGordon\|w	meh.. yeah i guess so
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20:33:51	kugel	linuxstb: I don't wanna be picky, but generally supercede is wrong spelling ;)
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20:43:11	markun	Would it be an idea to add rockbox to http://openusability.org/ ?
20:43:50	linuxstb	kugel: I just copied the previous poster...
20:44:15	kugel	linuxstb: hehe
20:48:07	Nico_P	markun: "Due to a lack of usability specialists, we currently don't add new projects to this list.", but the principle seems nice
20:49:11	markun	Nico_P: yes, I read that just after I posted the link
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21:00
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21:18:09	Casainho	hello :-) - I would like to know If there is any device that have RB with an ARM926EJ-S?? - someone told me about m:robe MR-500 but looks like It not use an ARM926EJ-S...
21:21:21	markun	Casainho: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TexasInstrumentsTMS320#DM320
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21:23:10	Casainho	markun: thank you :-) - I will try to learn to make the bootloader from that deviceson the list :-)
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21:25:12	markun	Casainho: what made you think the MR-500 wasn't ARM926EJ based?
21:25:53	Casainho	I was reading on TWiki, and I saw something about TI and I didn't saw nothing saing ARM926...
21:26:26	Casainho	luckly I am seeing that should be a lot of code already made for this ARM :-)
21:26:33		Quit MethoS- (Connection timed out)
21:27:09	Casainho	I am using a nokia color LCD... is there any device using that LCD? :-)
21:28:05	markun	do you know which LCD controller is used by this LCD panel?
21:28:42	Casainho	eheh - I will search - wait :-)
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21:29:43	Casainho	Epson S1D15G10
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21:32:43	markun	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DataSheets
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21:33:16	tnguy	hey everybody
21:33:19	markun	the iriver h1xx and iaudio m5 use the Epson S1D15E06, maybe it's similar (even though it's not colour)
21:33:25	markun	hi tnguy
21:33:35	tnguy	i have a quick question
21:33:46	tnguy	well a couple questions
21:34:46	tnguy	would rockbox play on my ipod through my car stero or am i going to have to stick with the regular stuff?
21:34:55		Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection)
21:35:41	Casainho	markun: thank you, I will find more info :-9 :-)
21:36:41	scorche\|w	tnguy: that depends on how your car stereo interfaces with the ipod
21:37:06	markun	tnguy: here is some info on ipod accessories: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodAccessories
21:37:15	tnguy	it plugs in to the usb type port at the bottom and i think it looks at the files that way so my guess is they need to be from itunes
21:37:53	markun	so the ipod is just used for storage and not for the actual playback?
21:38:22	tnguy	i believe so but im not sure
21:38:46	tnguy	but i have a feeling that it cant read mp3 files and stuff
21:38:56	tnguy	i guess i should contact jvc
21:39:14	markun	or just try it
21:40:02	JdGordon\|w	tnguy: can you plug any mp3 player in? or is it only for ipods?
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21:40:49	tnguy	it only has the plug in for an ipod
21:41:23	JdGordon\|w	try it and see what happens...
21:41:31	JdGordon\|w	either it works... or it blows up your stereo
21:41:38	JdGordon\|w	or just doesnt work
21:44:22	tnguy	haha yeah i guess i hope it doesnt blow it up i would be in trouble...
21:44:23	n1s	or it steals your car...
21:46:12		Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:46:42	linuxstb_	tnguy: The ipod "usb type port" is the "dock connector" - this includes many pins, including USB, firewire (on some ipods), audio line-out, and a serial interface for communications.
21:47:09	linuxstb_	tnguy: What gets displayed on your ipod's LCD when you attach it to your car?
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21:47:54	tnguy	it looks a lot like the disk mode screen except it says jvc and that you can disconnect when ever ready
21:48:34	linuxstb_	Then it won't work with Rockbox - your car interface is communicating via the serial port to display that image.
21:49:11	tnguy	ahh ok thats kind of what i figured when you said there was a serial intercafe in the dock connector
21:49:21	tnguy	interface... i cant type today
21:50:11	tnguy	that makes sense
21:50:33		Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
21:50:51	tnguy	well thanks guys this looks like a really good program and i would get it but that is one of my main uses for my ipod
21:51:06	n1s	tnguy: you can dual boot
21:51:09		Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 3.0b3pre/2008011504]")
21:51:13	tnguy	oh really?
21:51:20		Quit ch4os_ ("Lost terminal")
21:51:30	tnguy	well ill have to lookinto that
21:51:42	linuxstb	Does your car stereo have any other inputs, such as a standard line-in?
21:51:43	n1s	all the details should be in the manual
21:51:43	tnguy	you mean where i have both sets of firmware on it?
21:51:55	n1s	tnguy: yes
21:52:20	tnguy	im not sure its been a while since ive had the head unit out
21:52:23	n1s	you flip the hold switch (iirc) to choose when you turn the ipod on
21:52:48	tnguy	oh thats pretty cool
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21:53:31	tnguy	thanks n1s ill look into that tonight
21:55:51	tnguy	thanks for the help yall
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21:57:20	fyrestorm	rockboxutil wont load up apple 5g themes
21:57:46		Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:58:13	scorche\|w	correct :)
21:58:26	fyrestorm	but the page is up
21:58:29	fyrestorm	on the site
21:58:42	fyrestorm	i thought thats how it worked XD
21:59:30		Quit petur ("switching")
21:59:37	scorche\|w	no, the page is not up
21:59:40	scorche\|w	http://rockbox-themes.org/index.php?res=320x240x16x
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21:59:52	fyrestorm	its not?
22:00
22:00:05	scorche\|w	no it is not..
22:00:09	fyrestorm	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIpod5g
22:00:12	fyrestorm	im on it
22:00:30	scorche\|w	oh...that one...rbutil doesnt take the themes from that page
22:00:44	fyrestorm	so where does it take it from?
22:00:52	scorche\|w	the page i linked
22:01:07	fyrestorm	ahh
22:01:08	n1s	which isn't up ;)
22:01:12	fyrestorm	heh
22:01:18	fyrestorm	cabbie2 is nice
22:01:29	fyrestorm	i made a remix of slant
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22:39:05	petur	can somebody refresh my memory? I just made an h300 sim from svn and it segfaults the moment I try to play a track. Been there but the reason escapes me :(
22:39:45	rasher	Platform?
22:39:52	petur	ubuntu
22:39:56	rasher	64bit?
22:40:01	petur	no
22:40:12	petur	x86 7.10
22:43:32	n1s	many things crash my 64 bit sim on ubuntu but playing tracks works...
22:43:53	n1s	(after the mp3 fix and the symbol clash fix)
22:44:15	petur	the tracks are VBR if that would matter,...
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22:44:52	n1s	i suppose gdb doesn't tell you anything useful...?
22:45:39	petur	good idea.... I even recently installed a gui for it :)
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22:46:48	n1s	anyway goodnight.
22:46:51		Quit n1s ()
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22:48:41	eigma	Badger: ping
22:48:47	petur	meh... doesn't make me much wiser...
22:48:56	Bagder	eigma: here!
22:49:06	eigma	what's a typical command line for "acbuild.pl"?
22:49:16	Bagder	uh, that's a bit tricky :-)
22:49:18	eigma	I tried: ./acbuild.pl "2006-02-08 13:55:00" "build-h120:iriver H120 - Normal:rockbox.iriver:9\\n\\n"
22:49:28	eigma	it's at the top of the sources, it's giving some weird error
22:49:37	eigma	now that I think about it, it may be the "dash" issues
22:50:12	eigma	hmm, nope
22:50:15	eigma	i get "Please select a supported target platform!" in the master buildlog
22:50:26	Bagder	you use dash?
22:50:32	eigma	I just symlinked sh -> bash
22:50:41	eigma	so I should be fine as far as that's concerned
22:50:44	Bagder	I see that the acbuild script runs echo -e, and we should change that
22:50:58	Llorean	Is there some good reason not to simply have the scripts explicitly use Bash, since it's at least "known good"?
22:51:00	eigma	actually, I was planning on dash-ifying the whole thing but whatever
22:51:08	eigma	Llorean: explained on mailing list afaik
22:51:19	eigma	right now I just want to get my server building
22:51:21	Llorean	On the mailing list, all he said was "it works on other non-bash shells"
22:51:22	Bagder	I think we should just make sure to be nice on both dash and bash
22:51:33	Llorean	Which isn't a reason not to use Bash, just a reason why we don't have to use bash.
22:51:38	Bagder	removing echo options is the main problem afair
22:51:40	Llorean	Bagder: Oh, I can agree to that at least.
22:52:08	Llorean	I was just curious if there was something "bad" about simply being explicit about it until it's "safe" for dash.
22:52:26	Bagder	nah, only on systems that have another shell than bash
22:52:35	Bagder	which I guess is rare in this context
22:53:37	eigma	oh, lol
22:53:40	eigma	"9" isn't a valid platform
22:54:00	Bagder	oh, old comment! ;-)
22:54:08	eigma	can I get a real life acbuild line from someone?
22:55:02	Bagder	ssh -i privkey $ssh_port $sshopts $server "./acbuild.pl \\"$date\\" \\"$bu\ildline\\"
22:55:11	Bagder	iow, your line was right
22:55:18	Bagder	apart from 9 could be e200 or similar
22:55:24	eigma	I mean, with date & buildline subbed in
22:55:28	eigma	perhaps from some logs?
22:55:57	Bagder	my $date = sprintf("%04d%02d%02dT%02d%02d%02dZ",
22:55:57	Bagder	$year+1900, $mon+1, $mday, $hour, $min, $sec);
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22:57:45	Bagder	an example date stamp can be taken from any build log
22:58:07	Bagder	20080121T155614Z like
22:58:08	eigma	for future reference: http://build.rockbox.org/cvsmod/dbg-20080121T155614Z.log
22:58:34	Bagder	ah right and the date stamp is in the URL :-)
22:58:58	eigma	lol
22:59:09	eigma	acbuild with a bad buildline rm -rf's eveyrthing in the current directory :(
22:59:20	Bagder	yes...
22:59:34	rasher	Llorean: actually, the script's using `` within perl, which is just executed by the default shell
22:59:37	Bagder	one of these days we'll cough up a better acbuild...
23:00
23:00:05	Bagder	the script could use printf instead of echo -e
23:00:16	rasher	Should.
23:00:20	Bagder	true
23:00:27	eigma	is acbuild in svn?
23:00:28	Bagder	I'll edit the copy I host on the URL I posted
23:00:41	rasher	But anyway, I see now that there's no easy way to specify bash
23:01:12	eigma	why don't we just popen from perl
23:01:24	eigma	no escaping crap to worry about
23:01:27	eigma	less forkin
23:01:28	eigma	*forking
23:01:40	eigma	and we get to check the exit code of configure
23:01:45	eigma	and actually abort if something is wrong
23:01:46	Bagder	popen is a fork as well...
23:01:57		Join avh22 [0] (n=alex@bas2-toronto12-1128738320.dsl.bell.ca)
23:02:01	eigma	popen("cmd2") is less forks than `cmd1 \| cmd2`
23:02:08	Bagder	true
23:02:38	Bagder	there are several improvements that can be made in that script
23:03:23	Bagder	for example. the user edits should've been put in a separate file...
23:03:37	Bagder	so that it would be easier to upgrade this
23:04:58		Join low_light [0] (n=c730190b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-8fb32e835d124926)
23:05:22		Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:05:34	eigma	the PATH stuff should just be put in ~/.login or ~/.bashrc or whatever
23:06:00	eigma	maybe export ROCKBOX_ACBUILD_CACHE=1
23:06:07	eigma	like, doing all the configurable stuff via environment
23:06:21		Join stel [0] (n=stel@84.13.66.46)
23:06:46	Bagder	the ccache option isn't even needed these days
23:07:01		Quit agm3nt ()
23:07:13	low_light	Bagder: now the the m:robe 100 sim is functional, it's probably time to add the m:robe 100 to the build table (target, bl, and sim)
23:07:59	Bagder	low_light: I'll be happy to!
23:08:43	low_light	good :)
23:08:47		Quit stel (Client Quit)
23:09:03	Bagder	rockbox.mrobe100 is the name?
23:09:38	low_light	the target build is rockbox.mi4
23:10:38		Join uwe_ [0] (n=uwe@dslb-084-056-051-092.pools.arcor-ip.net)
23:11:09	Bagder	ah of course
23:12:02	Bagder	eigma's server is now on board
23:12:38	*	eigma cheers
23:12:50		Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
23:13:00	eigma	bye guys, gotta go
23:13:03		Quit eigma ()
23:13:11	low_light	Unless I missed it, I think rooklu owes us a "Ladies and Gentlemen..." email.
23:14:44	Bagder	we need to teach him manners
23:17:00	Bagder	three mrobe100 builds added to the list
23:17:11	Bagder	we need a commit now to make the craziness start
23:17:30	Bagder	should we make mrobe100 zips available?
23:18:06	Llorean	do we have a documented install process?
23:18:16	low_light	no...probably not till buttons work
23:18:35	Bagder	true, let's wait for that
23:18:38	Llorean	I think we shouldn't make zips available until a "user" can use it. Meaning, document the install at least in the manual, and buttons work.
23:19:54	low_light	The install process is the same as for the H10
23:22:35		Quit uwe__ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:24:42		Quit desowin ()
23:26:42		Join n17ikh\|Lappy [0] (n=n17ikh@130-127-126-19.calhoun.resnet.clemson.edu)
23:28:51		Join S [0] (n=john@dslb-084-060-168-229.pools.arcor-ip.net)
23:29:15		Quit tedrock (Client Quit)
23:29:58		Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-cb1f387f1ec55676)
23:31:01	saratoga	if i wanted to print register values in real time, what would be the easiest way to do that?
23:31:20		Join jac0b [0] (n=jac0b@user-112079o.dsl.mindspring.com)
23:31:41	petur	like the i/o debug screen?
23:31:48	saratoga	yeah like it does
23:31:53	saratoga	can that be easily modified?
23:31:57	saratoga	and if so where is it in the source
23:32:12	saratoga	i want to explore the power management settings in the PP5024
23:32:17	Bagder	whoa, no major breakage
23:32:26		Quit DogBoy ("Leaving")
23:32:49	petur	apps/debug_menu.c
23:33:26	*	Bagder failed to add eigma's server properly though
23:33:35	*	petur didn't know his commit was going to test the build system
23:34:15	petur	the build table now needs 3/4 of my screen width :)
23:34:39	Bagder	and there's more to come! ;-)
23:35:12	countrymonkey	What is the mp3 player doing when I press select at the battery level under the rockbox info screen when it displays scanning disk?
23:35:34	rasher	countrymonkey: recalculating free disk space
23:35:47	scorche\|w	too....many....prepositions....
23:36:25		Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:37:51	*	countrymonkey is sure scorche_w is crazy
23:38:31	countrymonkey	and can 8465 have a look?
23:39:47	petur	is that nagging to have FS #8465 committed?
23:40:52		Quit conando (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:41:41		Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!")
23:41:47		Quit low_light ("CGI:IRC")
23:43:17	countrymonkey	Yes.
23:43:22	petur	hmmm removing the LANG_PLUGIN_GAMES translation isn't really removing fluff, is it? I mean, the string is actually used and displayed.
23:43:34		Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
23:43:43	petur	same for _APPS and _DEMOS
23:43:45	Bagder	12 fine servers used
23:44:26	petur	not bad
23:45:07	Bagder	indeed not
23:47:02	countrymonkey	Do you mean from espanol.lang or japanese.lang? I removed everything that was untranslated.
23:47:18	petur	from japanese.lang
23:47:21	countrymonkey	That's to me fluff
23:48:02	petur	errr.. I think LANG_PLUGIN_GAMES and co are used so why remove the translation?
23:49:00	rasher	countrymonkey: you removed some strings that were not untranslated (if you'll pardon the double negatives)
23:49:03	countrymonkey	I'll be. I am not a careful person; must have missed those in my delete. The rest is fine, right?
23:49:18	rasher	LANG_SYSFONT_RECORDING_RIGHT
23:49:27	petur	and in espaniol.lang there's LANG_RECORD_TRIGGER_STOP of which you remove the translation
23:49:40	countrymonkey	close the patch; it's not worth it.
23:49:50		Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
23:49:52	rasher	Also, you added a BOM at the beginning of the file
23:49:55	petur	rasher: the sysfont ones aren shown in unicode, right?
23:50:07	countrymonkey	I'll make a new more useful patch.
23:50:08	rasher	petur: Good point
23:50:20	countrymonkey	I use notepad
23:50:25	petur	yuck
23:50:34	petur	get notepad2 or notepad++
23:51:30	*	petur reverts the lang changes and moves along...
23:52:24	countrymonkey	I'll make a patch of a different perpose.
23:52:48	petur	just fix the issues
23:53:13	petur	or better, somebody should translate the missing strings ;)
23:55:33	petur	shouldn't FS #8443 be closed now that cabbie is committed?
23:56:05		Part avh22
23:56:29	amiconn	hmmmm
23:56:45	*	amiconn cannot add the M3 anymore ;)
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23:57:07	amiconn	The build table would no longer fit my screen width ;)
23:57:13	Bagder	haha
23:57:15	petur	haha
23:57:31	*	petur hugs his 1920x1200 screen
23:57:41	*	amiconn is on 1400x1050

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