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#rockbox log for 2008-01-24

00:00:25stripwaxand resetting your rockbox settings? or are you just updating? 16149 and 16151 should behave the same
00:00:34 Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (
00:01:21trypti'll reset the settings
00:01:47trypti don't use database mode, just file/folder viewer
00:02:17 Join webguest84 [0] (n=4c0f2e22@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:02:45 Join dandin1 [0] (
00:02:49webguest84I need a link for rockboy is that possible ?
00:03:00krazykitrockboy is included in the builds
00:03:16stripwaxwebguest84 - have you installed rockbox?
00:03:20soapthe issue you are experiencing is mentioned explicitly in the manual.
00:04:47tryptwho me?
00:04:54trypti just reset settings, it's still happening
00:05:20webguest84Yes I accidently erased rockboy
00:05:21 Quit n1s ()
00:05:25soapsorry trypt, not you.
00:06:40tryptit took 15 seconds for a song to start, then when i skip to the next song, it's been at least 60 seconds and still hasn't started yet, but i can hear the disk spinning
00:07:18 Quit XavierGr ()
00:08:03stripwaxtrypt - hm. does the original Apple firmware still work ok? does running a disk check show up any problems? just trying to think of ruling out hardware/filesystem problems . I'll see if i can reproduce your problem (last time I tried - this morning - mp3 playback worked fine for me on ipod 5g 60gb)
00:09:01tryptwell i'd have to install itunes and load some songs onto my ipod through it to check that, guess i'll have to
00:09:18 Quit webguest84 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:09:18tryptdoes rockbox have a disk check utility, or you mean in windows or itunes?
00:09:28stripwaxactually I meant in windows
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00:11:48tryptdisk check OK
00:12:54 Quit PaulJam (".")
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00:15:36preglowstripwax: did you compile tremolo, or?
00:16:29stripwaxthere's quite a lot of changes need to be made, and I'm not familiar with Tremor, so it's not there yet
00:16:44stripwaxlike, the way all of the source files are different...
00:16:59stripwaxunless there's an easy way to just drop it in without making any changes somehow?
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00:18:36 Quit trypt ()
00:19:08stripwaxah, was about to ask trypt something .. won't bother now
00:21:13 Quit obo ("bye")
00:24:21preglowi didn't look to closely
00:24:29preglowso he's gutted out all the c code that he reimplements?
00:25:20stripwaxrenamed functions, changed structures, the works. but then again, the rockbox implementation of Tremor seems to have also made a bunch of diffs against the official Tremor anyway ,which makes the whole diffing process hard
00:25:51stripwaxso not sure which of these structural changes are his own, and which are ours, and which might just be because he's forked a different version of Tremor..
00:26:46rasherShouldn't the utils dir be in the tarballs?
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00:27:23BagderI think it should
00:27:54rasherIcons and backdrops should at least
00:28:05amiconnutils aren't needed for building rockbox
00:28:08Bagderamiconn: because it is code related to rockbox hacking
00:28:19rasheramiconn: plenty of things in the tarballs aren't
00:28:44Bagderand because we have no other tarballs offering that code
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00:30:19stripwaxe.g. our mdct.c and his are *very* different ,and I suspect most of those diffs are annoyingly mostly cosmetic
00:33:25preglowstripwax: oh well, it's gpl, we could just adapt it
00:33:51stripwaxand yeah
00:33:56preglowno, i believe his code is gpl
00:34:10preglowat least it said so on the site
00:34:35stripwaxoh - you're right. was thinking about tremor.
00:34:43stripwaxbut still, yep
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00:35:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:41:03 Join deranger [0] (n=792da9f7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
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00:41:35derangerhey people, anyone here willing to help with a major crisis?
00:41:53preglowjust ask what needs asking
00:42:34derangerwell, last night I had to turn off my rockboxed X5 in a hurry and when I tried booting up again it said 'no partition found'
00:43:04derangerand now I can't connect to the pc at all
00:44:54*preglow has no idea about x5
00:45:36derangerhmm well I figured it would be a rockbox issue, not really a specific player issue
00:45:50 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
00:46:02preglowrescuing a player is very player specific
00:46:27derangerie: the rockbox firmware wont be recognised by windows
00:46:32stripwaxhm, too much has changed, and it's too late to get my head around it tonight.
00:46:39amiconnYou *can* connect to the pc
00:46:49amiconnPower off the X5, then connect it
00:47:02amiconnThe cowon loader will detect the connection and go into usb mode
00:47:33stripwaxand so on that note, gnight.. mabye will take a fresh look at tremolo later
00:47:33derangeroh it connects yeh but I cant access my files
00:48:24derangerthe player is dual boot as well, but I didnt realise that it always loaded into rockbox
00:48:55amiconnWell, if rockbox says 'no partition' and you also can't access the data from the pc, it means the partition is broken somehow
00:49:23derangeryep but the files are there, because I can play them using cowon firmware
00:49:35preglowstripwax: night
00:49:53derangerjust cant view the drive and 'change files' etc
00:49:58 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:50:17amiconnIf you have rockbox then you don't have the OF available anymore, unless you're using the unsupported dualboot patch
00:50:20derangeras when connected via usb, the rockbox firmware is default
00:50:52amiconnThe cowon loader's usb mode is independent of rockbox
00:51:21derangerhmm.. that is very sad then
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00:51:48 Quit ender` (" Just when you get really good at something, you don't need to do it any more.")
00:51:51amiconnIf you cannot access your files from the pc even though the drive appears, it means your partition *is* broken, and the cowon software manages to find it in spite of that
00:52:20amiconnBut that probably means that the filesystem itself is ok, and only the partition table is broken
00:52:46derangeris it fixable though or is it the end of the line?
00:53:18amiconnI think it's fixable, but if not, you'd only need to repartition, reformat and put the music back on
00:54:25amiconn(with fixable I mean without needing to reformat)
00:54:28 Quit markun (Remote closed the connection)
00:54:39derangerall right, is there any literature on the rockbox website to help me with this?
00:54:40rasherWhy is Sazanami-Mincho-Regular-11.fnt in svn?
00:55:25derangerI have no issues formatting.. it'll take a bit of time, im more concerned about my player being a paper weight or not
00:56:11preglowit almost certainly ain't
00:56:27amiconnThe iaudio X5, M5 and M3 is always recoverable, unless it's physically broken of course
00:57:13 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:57:14derangerwell, its been doing fine apart from the fact that I 'switched it off without pausing or stopping the file'
00:57:31derangeronly when I tried to boot up again about 10 mins later I got the error message
00:58:02amiconnIf you're going to reformat, you first need to recreate a partition, and format it with fat32. Make sure you don't format in superfloppy mode (which might not be supported by the OF - it would also be recoverable from that of course)
00:58:49derangerIll need to work out how to actually format :)
00:58:57amiconnThen unzip a rockbox build, put your music back, and there you go. You don't need to reinstall the bootloader, as it's still in flash of course
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01:01:28derangerall right, silly question, how to format without connection to my pc?
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01:26:49pixelmaderangered: did you try turning the player off and then plugging the USB cable, this should get you in what amicann called "the cowon loader's usb mode", maybe it's then connecting
01:27:39pixelmaand he also suggested that... should've read further back
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01:29:44derangeredI always plug in the usb cable after the power's off
01:30:06derangeredplugging the player in via usb causes my explorer software to freeze
01:30:18derangeredand my computer etc unaccessible
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01:30:55derangeredI need to reformat from within usb host mode
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01:31:16derangeredas it's the only way I can physically view the files
01:32:26OracHey, could someone give me write permission on the wiki? My username is TroyJansen
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02:50:52pointofworkhello there! i need help, i have to create a modification to a generic type of mp3 player, my requirement is that after writing some mp3 files to the device, i need it to be unerasable, but still allows the user to write/erase to the unused space, can i use rockbox to do this? thanks to you all, i appreciate any help.
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02:53:41krazykitpointofwork, no, for various reasons. 1) you'd have to port rockbox, a long process, typically. 2) rockbox runs on a FAT32 filesystem, meaning the operating system will manipulate it as it wants to. rockbox can't prevent this, really.
02:56:54pointofworkthanks krazykit, is there anyway to modify the existing firmware on mp3 players to do this? can you give suggestion on how should i approach this?
02:57:42pointofworkim really new to hardware mods, but im a programmer.
02:57:51TiMiD[FD]technically impossible if your players connects to the computer via UMS
02:58:19krazykitplease keep in mind that this channel is about rockbox, and anything else is offtopic.
02:58:29TiMiD[FD]the computer will always have access to the whole storage space whatever you do
02:58:39rasherTiMiD[FD]: if it was a software ums target, couldn't you have a partitioned drive of which Rockbox only exposed one?
02:59:09TiMiD[FD]are there software ums targets ?
03:00:01rasherAll the pp targets
03:00:03pointofworkwhats a ums target?
03:00:44TiMiD[FD]ok so on pp targets it would be feasible
03:00:54TiMiD[FD]although I don't really see the point
03:01:00rasher.. maybe.
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03:01:40pointofworkhow about completely making the mp3 player unwritable, maybe that would be easier
03:01:43TiMiD[FD]you would have to emulate a partition table
03:02:41pointofworkill research on that.
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03:09:33DarkXaeroalright i need some real quick help
03:09:53DarkXaeroi have a sansa e200 r
03:09:58DarkXaerojust installed rockbox on it successfully
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03:10:52DarkXaerohowever, when i am in rockbox on the sansa
03:10:52DarkXaeroand i go on the files menu
03:10:52DarkXaeroit doesn't show all the folders including the ".rockbox" folder
03:11:17rasherDarkXaero: sounds like you haven't read the manual
03:11:22TiMiD[FD]because the folders are hidden
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03:29:20Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:29:26johnaintdoeI can't compile arm-elf-gcc using the script
03:29:39Mode"#rockbox +e *!*@rockbox/administrator/Llorean " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
03:29:48Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:29:52krazykitjohnaintdoe, what operating system?
03:30:01johnaintdoeubuntu 7.10
03:30:08krazykitdo you have build-essential installed?
03:30:19johnaintdoegcc 4.1.3
03:30:52krazykitcould you copy the error output to ?
03:32:15johnaintdoesorry I'm a little confused
03:32:32ashesi'd like rockbox to run ntpd. dispite lacking a network device ntpd can still correct the local clock. my iriver losses time on a fairly consistant basis
03:32:32iain_daltonA while ago, the build page listed Sansa e200 as broken, but now it doesn't. If broken was referring to the screen going black when plugged into USB, it's still broken for me.
03:33:13krazykitiain_dalton, i believe that means it didn't build correctly.
03:33:26krazykitashes, so port it :)
03:33:33iain_daltonashes: I may be a humble user, but I think ntpd can only work if it's networked, hence the n in the name.
03:33:55DarkXaero<rasher> DarkXaero: sounds like you haven't read the manual
03:33:55DarkXaero<TiMiD[FD]> because the folders are hidden
03:34:03DarkXaerothe ".rockbox" folder isn't hidden :]
03:34:34iain_daltonkrazykit: what means that, the "broken" that was on the build page, or the fact that the screen goes black?
03:35:02krazykitiain_dalton, the "broken" on the build table should refer to the target not building correctly.
03:35:54iain_daltonkrazykit: All right. I guess I should submit a bug report about the black screen then. It's been that way since the 19th's build
03:36:09johnaintdoekrazykit: Platform set to ipodmini2g
03:36:09johnaintdoeBuild (N)ormal, (A)dvanced, (S)imulator, (B)ootloader, (M)anual (N)
03:36:09DBUGEnqueued KICK johnaintdoe
03:36:09johnaintdoeNormal build selected
03:36:09johnaintdoeUsing source code root directory: /home/johnaintdoe/Desktop/rockbox-20080123
03:36:09***Alert Mode level 1
03:36:09johnaintdoe../tools/configure: 1694: arm-elf-gcc: not found
03:36:11johnaintdoe../tools/configure: 1698: arm-elf-ld: not found
03:36:13johnaintdoeWARNING: The compiler you must use (arm-elf-gcc) is not in your path!
03:36:15johnaintdoeWARNING: this may cause your build to fail since we cannot do the
03:36:16krazykitjohnaintdoe, no, in
03:36:17johnaintdoeWARNING: checks we want now.
03:36:19johnaintdoeUsing arm-elf-ld
03:36:21johnaintdoeCreated Makefile
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03:37:01krazykitjohnaintdoe, if you installed it correctly, you still need to add it to your path
03:37:10krazykitwhich should be detailed on the wiki page
03:37:33DarkXaeroalright, so why doesn't my ".rockbox" folder appear?
03:37:37DarkXaeroits not hidden
03:37:37johnaintdoei'll see that
03:38:09LloreanDarkXaero: The .rockbox folder is hidden because folders beginning with . are hidden.
03:38:48DarkXaeroso what should i do to make it appear?
03:39:00krazykitread the manual.
03:39:18DarkXaeroit appeared automatically in the other sansa that i have
03:39:19johnaintdoekrazykit: i looked into the wiki but it doesn't say
03:39:55iain_daltonDarkXaero: There's an option to view all files
03:39:55TiMiD[FD]DarkXaero: this is only a setting to change if you search through the menus you'll find it
03:39:58johnaintdoekrazykit: it says how to do it manually but it says you're all set if you use the script
03:40:16krazykitjohnaintdoe, pretty sure i've never had the script do it for me. check this:
03:41:15DarkXaeroalright, thanks
03:41:47DarkXaeroalright, got it thanks
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03:41:56DarkXaeroi looked for that option before in the settings and missed it
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03:44:19johnaintdoethank you very much
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04:14:15countrymonkeyAre fs#8496 and fs#8502 in committable states?
04:14:47countrymonkeyI know I am doing way too many patches. It's just because I'm bored.
04:15:28 Quit ol_schoola ()
04:16:22krazykitcountrymonkey, it looks like #8502 also has the vew/view stuff in it.
04:17:22countrymonkeyWoops. I'll fix that. Is 8496 committable?
04:18:06krazykitcountrymonkey, #8502 also has a bunch of stuff in a bunch of other langs that doesn't appear to be related
04:19:15countrymonkeyI'll completely redo the patch. Maybe it was a bad idea to put what lang it was in the file itself anyway.
04:26:05countrymonkeyNow is it good?
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04:29:06krazykitwell, it doesn't have all the extra junk in it.
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04:30:10countrymonkeyYes. I completely redid the patch. I mean from a clean svn.
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04:40:10countrymonkeyNow, could it be committed?
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04:47:48krazykitcountrymonkey, you'd have to ask someone who can commit.
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04:50:02countrymonkeyYou cannot?
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04:53:39countrymonkeyall with svn: Could 8502 be committed?
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07:07:11rockoI was playing music on my ipod color for 30 minutes today, I turned it off
07:07:26rockoand when I went to turn it back on the thing had the no battery icon
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07:16:58cool_walking_rocko: My 5G does that sometimes. I just reboot it and it's fine.
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07:50:28Slythianhow close is the creative Zen Vision M port?
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08:32:59GodEater<heavy_weather_gear status="on"> So - the next rockbox release. Has it been shelved again?
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08:35:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:36:57LinusN /msg chanserv ban GodEater time=forevergoddammit
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08:38:58GodEaterso that'll be a "yes" then
08:40:00LinusNi guess it's rather "nobody seems to care enough to volunteer as a release manager"
08:40:44GodEaterI could have sworn Llorean had been volunteered (whether he liked it or not)
08:44:10LinusNis that so? he must be delighted
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08:54:33markunlet's ask Dongs if he wants to become our release manager
08:55:21LinusNlike with the last release, we have serious buffering and playback issues... :-(
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08:56:20LinusNit's funny when you think of it, so much time has passed, and we still don't have the core functionality stable
08:56:27markunLinusN: I don't notice them much. What kind of issues are there?
08:56:46LinusNwe have tons of reports about frantic disk activity and stuttering playback
08:57:06LinusNfreezes with crossfade and song switching
08:57:38LinusNplenty of database issues as far as i can see
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09:08:19amiconnmarkun: What do you think we should do about fs 7833? My patch fixes the crash when using the asm on gigabeat (it was indeed the section .icode), but XavierGr tested it to be slightly slower than the C code (about 0.43%)
09:08:57markunthen I prefer to use the C code
09:09:28markunlet me check the patch first
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09:11:43markunamiconn: do you think there is any benefit in using the asm code?
09:13:40markunBagder: what's that?
09:13:44amiconnThe only benefit would be that the gigabeat uses the same code as any other arm target
09:13:49LinusNBagder: well said
09:14:09BagderRex going nuts on the keyboard ;-)
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09:20:29amiconnmarkun: The part that patches the .S file should probably be committed anyway, in case some other arm target without iram appears, and a comment should be added in the .c file why the asm is disabled for gigabeat
09:20:41markunamiconn: yes, I agree
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09:21:44markunamiconn: would it be a good idea to have a separate macro for it?
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09:25:51LinusNshouldn't .icode me mapped in regular ram on those targets?
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09:27:55Nico_PGodEater: hi, do you think you could try playing with the #defined watermark levels in buffering.c to see ig they affect playback glitches?
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09:33:19GodEaterNico_P: sure
09:33:59Nico_Pcool, thanks :)
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09:34:46Nico_PI'm thinking of BUFFERING_DEFAULT_WATERMARK and BUFFERING_CRITICAL_LEVEL, but the first is of more interest
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09:36:40GodEaterany values you want me to try ?
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09:39:03Nico_Ptry doubling the default watermark value
09:39:54GodEaterdidn't we already try this ?
09:40:37Nico_PIIRC what we changed was the default filechunk
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09:40:45GodEaterI thought we'd done both
09:40:50GodEateroh well
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09:42:23Nico_Phmm actually as the watermark is configurable it might not stock to that value at all
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09:43:35Nico_Pmaybe it would be wise to comment the queue_post call in buf_set_watermark (line 1258), so that the watermark always remains the same
09:45:52Nico_PGodEater: yesterday amiconn said he believed the problem was due to a too small value of the watermark, not taking the spinup time increase into account
09:46:05CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
09:46:05*petur had a playback glitch today: on resume there was a brief moment of noise (playing something that wasn't audio data)
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09:51:18*Nico_P is off (exam)
09:52:12*petur switches Nico_P back on
09:53:07Jakeworldsadly... I actually laughed at that
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10:33:52GodEaterdisk access is still insane
10:34:13GodEaterplayback takes an age to start
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10:35:46GodEateranyone know if a LOGF build would perhaps say why there's so much disk activity ?
10:37:51GodEateryeah - I think this change has made it worse Nico_P
10:37:57GodEaterI'm getting no playback at all now
10:37:59pondlifeThat's probably the best bet
10:38:05GodEateroh no - I tell a lie
10:38:16GodEaterit started after about 3 minutes of frantic disk activity
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10:38:38GodEaterWPS isn't updating though
10:38:51GodEaterdisk is still spinning
10:39:06GodEaterand playback is still dropping out
10:39:28GodEaterthis is now so bad as to make my ipod virtually unsuable as a rockbox target
10:39:48GodEatercontrols have stopped responding
10:40:43*GodEater has to hard reset
10:42:13GodEaterok - my start screen is set to "Resume playback" which happened more or less immediately after the reset. But controls were still doing nothing, WPS still not updating, and no response to USB cable being plugged in
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10:43:48pondlifeDoes the profiling build option allow any kind of thread monitoring?
10:44:03pondlifeJust a tick count would be useful
10:44:04*GodEater looks blank
10:44:18*pondlife TOO
10:44:25pondlifeOops, sorry for shouting
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11:04:04amiconnGodEater: I never said the high disk activity problem comes from a too low watermark. The occasional skipping at start of rebuffering, however, probably does.
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11:05:16amiconnThat said, I still didn't observe the high disk activity problem, and the occasional skipping just once or twice, weeks ago
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11:17:38GodEateramiconn: I've not enough insight into the problem one way or the other. I'm assuming that the high disk activity isn't helping the playback issue (assuming it's not caused by the buffering thread itself) so your watermark theory could be the problem with playback - or could just be that the disk activity is so bad - the buffering thread can't fill the pcmbuf fast enough
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11:20:30pondlifeGodEater: Sounds like it would be best to investigate the disk activity first.
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11:21:27GodEatermaking a logf build right now
11:22:44pondlifeYou may want to put some logf stuff into firmware/common/file.c
11:23:02pondlifeAny lower-level and it might be hard to interpret
11:23:03GodEaterI'm just going to see what happens with the defaults first
11:23:17GodEateripod is on, no playback yet
11:23:23GodEaterdisk is spinning madly
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11:23:38GodEaterplayback starts
11:23:44GodEaterno WPS updates yet
11:23:49pondlifeCool, you should be able to go and dump your logf already
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11:24:01pondlifeI mean, you've seen the bad behaviour
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11:24:56GodEaterstill can't stop playback
11:25:57GodEaterhard reset is the only way now
11:26:12pondlifeIn which case you lose your logf
11:26:42GodEaterthe disk didn't stop spinning the entire time
11:27:00pondlifeDo you have database auto-update enabled?
11:27:10*pondlife hopes not
11:27:56GodEaterit appears I do
11:27:56pondlifeAlso try disabling dircache, if you have that enabled
11:27:58GodEaterI'll turn it off
11:28:15pondlifeDircache and database startup scans are good for disk activity
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11:30:14GodEaterwhen I hit logfdump, do I get a success message or anything ?
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11:30:52*GodEater hasn't used a logf build before
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11:35:45pondlifeNot sure
11:35:51amiconnI have dircache enabled on most of my swcodec targets, but no database auto-updates or database in ram
11:36:05pondlifeI've only really used it on the sim, when it can dump to stdout
11:36:11*amiconn somehow suspects the changed database auto-update to be the culprit
11:36:21*pondlife agrees
11:36:42pondlifeGodEater: I take it you are now able to stop playback then?
11:37:19pondlifeSomething is wrong if the UI is completely locked due to heavy disk i/o anyway, no?
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11:38:27GodEaterlogf and logfdump do zip as far as I can tell
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11:38:40pondlifelogfdump should make a file in the root
11:38:40GodEaterplayback is now stoppable though yes
11:39:00GodEaternope - there's nothing there
11:39:03pondlifeSo there's still disk activity, just less insane?
11:39:12pondlifeMight be in .rockbox, can't remember..
11:39:23GodEateryes, somewhat less insane ;)
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11:40:09pondlifeI've long found database update slowed down the UI too much to be usable, before or after the last set of updates...
11:40:20pondlifeI mean, auto-update
11:40:35GodEateryes - thats certainly the case here
11:40:42pondlifeThe occasional triggered update is ok, as long a I don't plan to do much else.
11:41:02pondlifeThis is on an H300, so not with particularly slow disk i/o.
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11:41:44GodEaterstill getting lots of disk activity at the moment, and still drop outs, even with tagcache autoupdate set to off
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11:42:10GodEaterdircache is still updating though
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11:43:23GodEaterstill no logfdump output though
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11:46:23pondlifeIMHO priority should be given to (a) UI input (b) audio playback (c) dircache scan - shouldn't the kernel now handle that, or are all threads running at realtime priority?
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11:47:20pondlifeThere's a pretty good argument for swapping (a) and (b), of course.
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12:25:17Nico_PGodEater: the logfdump should be in .rockbox/logf.txt
12:26:13GodEaterNico_P: no such file
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12:53:04pondlifeIs it logf, or DEBUGF that needs enabling in each source file?
12:53:40GodEaterprobably explains the issue then :)
12:53:55Nico_Pin the sim, if you enable logf, logf calls get printed to stdout like DEBUGF calls
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12:54:28GodEaterfiles to enable it in then gentlemen ?
12:54:39GodEaterbuffering.c I would imagine
12:54:43GodEaterbut anywhere else ?
12:55:05Nico_Pfile.c maybe
12:55:16Nico_Pbut there might not be any logf calls in there
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12:55:36GodEaterwould adding -DLOGF_ENABLE to my CFLAGS not just do it for all files ?
12:55:47locu64is rockbox on 2g nano yet lolz
12:55:51GodEaterlocu64: no
12:56:25Nico_PGodEater: probably, yes
12:56:52locu64i think i will have to buy a 1g nano just to play mods and sids..
12:57:05GodEatergonna get some lunch, then will be back to continue debugging
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12:57:08GodEater15 mins or so
12:58:00Nico_PGodEater: thanks a lot for helping out with this
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13:17:12TiMiD[FD]pixelma, Llorean : around ?
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13:18:08Casainho_Bagder: here is the schematic for the secondary board:
13:18:31Casainho_Bagder: are missing the buttons, I will do that later
13:24:20Bagderno need to tell me, I check it out when I see changes
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13:30:31Casainho_Bagder: okok :-) - thanks for listen me :-) :-)
13:31:04Bagderit'll be fun to see you finally getting started on that thing...
13:32:11Casainho_I already started... I got the LCD
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13:33:16Casainho_but the important is the main board, and I will just buy next month - I am starting to looking at software, understand the minimal drivers that I must write to see a "hello world" on the LCD :-)
13:33:16Zagornew fancy feature in the irc web reader: click a nick to highlight all lines from a person
13:34:02Casainho_I can I delete files on TWiki pages?
13:34:30Bagderoh fancy!
13:34:34LinusNZagor: ...if it only worked...
13:34:41Bagderit works for me
13:34:47ZagorLinusN: it only works for "normal" nicks. no [| etc
13:35:07LinusNit doesn't work for any nick in my browser
13:35:15Zagor! which browser is that?
13:35:50LinusNFirefox in windows
13:35:52Bagderthe differences between firefox on windows and firefox on linux never ceases to surprise me
13:36:13BagderI have on linux
13:36:14LinusNehum, maybe i'm wrong
13:36:25LinusNi was too impatient
13:36:37Bagderso it's slow?
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13:36:45LinusNit took a few seconds before the highlight showed
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13:37:06Zagorhmm, are you on a very slow machine?
13:37:14LinusNnot *very* slow
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13:37:34BagderCasainho_: no you can't
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13:37:52LinusNp4 3ghz
13:38:09Zagorand it takes several seconds??
13:38:11LinusNtakes 2-3 secs
13:38:23Casainho_Bagder: so, can I upload files and after some time, ask to some moderator to delete?
13:38:24Bagderfor me it's a fraction of a second
13:38:27LinusNcloser to 2
13:38:39BagderCasainho_: yes
13:38:51Casainho_Bagder: :-)
13:40:30pixelmathe highlighting is almost immediately here, I'm also on windows, firefox
13:41:05Bagdermaybe it takes LinusN two seconds to click on the nick? B-]
13:43:43Nico_Pit doesn't seem to work here
13:43:52Nico_Pfirefox, linux
13:44:38Bagderjavascript in a nutshell
13:44:53 Quit fasmaie (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
13:44:54linuxstbSeems to work instantly here (Linux, FF
13:44:58ZagorNico_P: try clearing your cache
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13:46:13Nico_PZagor: ah, works now :)
13:46:44BagderCasainho_: so did you decide to boot from the serial flash?
13:47:34Nico_Pvery nice feature
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13:47:54Casainho_Bagder: I don't know :-)
13:47:54Bagderwell, what alternatives do you have?
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13:48:19Casainho_I am trying to understand :-) - I know know that bootloader is the code that msut be in boot flash memory and after mount FAT file system where the rest of RB code is...
13:48:54Bagderright, it should basically init some hw and load rockbox from FAT and start it
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13:49:13Bagdertypically it needs to setup the SDRAM at least
13:49:24Casainho_I have a Sansa.. and sinse I understand, It boot from the same flash IC as where it have the FAT file system...
13:49:52BagderThe sansas boot from a flash that isn't the nand
13:50:01Bagderthen it loads the secondary bootloader from the nand
13:50:05Bagderwhich then loads the firmware
13:50:56Bagderand in this case "sansas" mean both c200 and e200
13:51:17pondlifeZagor: Hmm, on IE7/Windows, the first highlight works. Any subsequent attempt gives an error
13:51:37Casainho_ so, RB bootloader in Sansa V1 E200 is in the nand?
13:51:41Zagorpondlife: yeah I saw that. but how do I get to see the error?
13:51:49pondlifeLine: 134, Char: 9, Error: Invalid property value.
13:51:53 Quit m0f0x (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:52:00BagderCasainho_: yes, the rb bootloader on sansas replaces the main firmware so it is on the nand
13:52:32pondlifeZagor: All I can do is click down where it says "Error on page." ;)
13:53:06Zagorpondlife: that didn't work on my browser...
13:53:29Zagortry again now (make sure reader.js is refreshed)
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13:54:05pondlifeYep, that's fixed
13:54:12Zagorgood. thanks.
13:54:38pondlifeA bit slow here too, about 5 seconds..
13:54:52Zagoryeah it's astonishingly slow in ie7
13:55:28*pondlife fires up the fox
13:56:04Casainho_Bagder: the main firmware? - or the second boot loader? - the first bootloader counts as firmware also, no?
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13:56:48BagderCasainho_: the original sansa does this: #1 BL, # 2nd BL, #3 firmware
13:57:07BagderCasainho_: rockbox on sansa does this #1 BK, #2 BL, #3 rockbox BL, #4 rockbox
13:57:32Casainho_Bagder: BK?? what that means?
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13:57:43Bagders/BK/BL means BK should be replaced with BL
13:58:43Casainho_well, I dopn't get it :-) - #1 BL is in what memory? - can we erase it?
13:58:56Bagder#1 is in a boot rom/flash that isn't the nand
13:59:21Bagderbut all this isn't strictly related to your problem
13:59:30Bagderyou build a player from start, with no embedded nand
13:59:53Bagderthe sansas have embeded nand and we had to adjust rockbox to their boot process
14:00:38Bagderagain, can you see _any_ alternative to booting from the serial flash?
14:01:04Casainho_no Bagder, I don't know how to boot, I was trying to understand/learn with ohter systems...
14:01:19Bagderbooting means reading the code from somewhere to be able to execute it
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14:01:53Bagderafaiu, the serial nor flash is the only place that exists within the (planned) player
14:02:07peturbootflashes are often NOR flash chips, maybe we can use the term bootflash or NOR flash to distinguish from the NAND one
14:02:29Bagderpetur: yes, but this MCU can in fact boot from nand as well
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14:02:37Casainho_okok, but I was expecting to use the same flash IC, in this case the 512MB NAND Flash
14:02:55BagderCasainho_: so you are going to have an embedded nand flash?
14:03:18Casainho_well, this dev board have that 512MB NAND Flash
14:03:27Bagderyes, but I speak about the player
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14:03:39Casainho_I don't know :-)
14:03:46Bagderfor the dev board you don't have to flash at all
14:03:50Bagderyou can just load over ethernet
14:04:15Bagderor whatever
14:04:17Casainho_I was think in a system with 8 MB flash memory just for RB... and use a SD falsh card for files...
14:04:58Bagderthat could work indeed
14:05:14Bagderwith a tiny part of that set read-only after you put the BL there
14:05:21Bagderand the rest used as FAT fs
14:06:07*Bagder fades away for now
14:07:29Casainho_Bagder: as you can see, I am realy new to this systems :-) - I would apreciate guidelines for this :-) - please leave ideias at forum, for tehm be registerd and others can read and comment, help...
14:08:12GodEaterCasainho_: anything said in this channel is "registered" for people to read and comment on
14:09:16Casainho_GodEater: yes, but I assume that people will not search for what they don't know that exist... in forum, chats are catalogued
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14:09:51Casainho_GodEater: and chats are mix with others chats, is a confusion
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14:10:29GodEateryou can provide links in the forum to the relevant parts of the day when conversation is had about your project though...
14:10:39GodEaterwhich means Bagder doesn't have to do extra work :)
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14:16:37TiMiD[FD]Casainho_: just read about your project on the wiki, I just want to tell you good luck !
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14:18:03Casainho_GodEater: well, organized information gives work :-) - TWiki pages and forum are important! and yes, specially TWiki pages gives work but are much better than links to IRC chats :-)
14:18:23GodEatercut and paste then ? :)
14:18:25Casainho_TiMiD[FD]: thank you :-)
14:18:44Casainho_GodEater: I am being doing that copy-paste :-)
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14:23:15Davide-NYCA while back on one of the mailing lists there was mention of a 50-PIN to ZIF adapter for 1.8" drives. Is there any word on that?
14:23:45GodEaterDavide-NYC: I believe LinusN is due to take delivery of one shortly
14:24:00Davide-NYCAny idea on price?
14:24:05 Quit m0f0x__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:24:12petursee the first post
14:25:02Davide-NYC27 Euros... Ouch.
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14:25:30peturLinusN did mention that he fears the adapter will not fit in the h120
14:25:48peturno more info :(
14:26:20Davide-NYCUrghh. Well, if LinusN is wrong and it does in fact fit I'd probably purchase 4.
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14:28:28GodEaterI can't believe it will fit either (although I've only seen the interior of the H140)
14:28:32GodEaterit's *tight* in there
14:28:41Davide-NYCIs there a pic of said adapter?
14:28:51GodEaternot that I've seen
14:29:17Davide-NYCwell, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for the info.
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14:33:37Lloreanamiconn: I think nearly every report of high disk activity has been on an iPod Video.
14:34:34*GodEater thought amiconn still had LinusN's 5.5G
14:35:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:36:29linuxstbI thought LinusN also had a 5G ipod...
14:36:54linuxstbForget me, I got that reversed...
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15:00:49waldo_ i have a sansa c240 and a 1gb micrsd card ... as long as there is nothing on the sd card, the original firmware boots when i connect the usb cable, and on my pc it show 2 'drives' .. after i put files on it, the firmware doesn't connect to the pc when plug in the usb cable ...when i remove the sd card all is well again, ... but i have to use a card reader then to change the content of the microsd card :S
15:01:59krazykithave you tried removing the card, booting into the OF, then inserting the card?
15:02:23thgzWaldo_: Try to put the sd card to sansa when the original firmware has booted up and connected to the computer
15:02:24waldo_krazykit: while it's on ?
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15:03:38waldo_hmmm that seems to work indeed , tnx ...
15:04:37waldo_so i have to reinsert the card everytime i want to change the content ... that's quite fucked up for OF, i would accept that from oss software ....
15:06:50linuxstbWhy would OSS do that? We fix our bugs...
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15:07:10waldo_... after a while :P
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15:07:56waldo_damn, now the OF crashes ... "refresh database"
15:08:13linuxstbYou obviously haven't seen as many "professional" firmwares as we have...
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15:09:37*preglow notices we still have that limits bug
15:10:00smorarhi, can someone grant me Wiki write permisson? my wikiname is SameerMorar
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15:10:10LambdaCalculus37smorar: Sure. Hang on a sec.
15:10:12waldo_does that include the acceptance of this CRASH on the "refresh database" screen ? ... it keeps doing that
15:10:38waldo_i have to press the power button for 10 secs
15:11:25LambdaCalculus37smorar: All set.
15:11:29smorarLambdaCalculus37: thanks :)
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15:24:06linuxstbwaldo_: Maybe I exaggerated slightly when I said we fix our bugs. There may be one or two left in our bug tracker...
15:26:03waldo_well ... somehow rockbox doesn't initialise its database ... it says everytime it isn't ready and wether i want to init it now ...
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15:26:44waldo_... quite like the original firmware :S ...
15:26:45GodEaterwho is Mr. tagcache these days then ? :)
15:27:06waldo_gonna boot to windows to update the OF ... just saw that it's quite an old one
15:27:10linuxstbwaldo_: That would point to some strangeness with your files. If we could isolate that strangeness, we could fix Rockbox.
15:27:26linuxstbi.e. if neither the OF or Rockbox like them...
15:27:40waldo_can i see on wich file it hangs ?
15:27:49linuxstbOr it could be a corrupt filesystem - have you checked it for errors/
15:28:01waldo_how do i do that ?
15:28:22linuxstbFrom WIndows, "chkdsk /f x:" (where x: is the drive letter given to your Sansa)
15:28:42waldo_im a linux user :S
15:28:48Nico_PGodEater: mr tagcache is still slasheri
15:28:55linuxstbThen fsck.vfat /dev/sdX1
15:29:08waldo_unmounted i guess ?
15:29:39linuxstbBut you may want to check the manpage for it as well.
15:32:37waldo_linuxstb: fsck.vfat /dev/sdi1 gives "Invalid disk format in boot sector."
15:33:45linuxstbNot a good start... /dev/sdi1 is the device Linux mounts to give you access to your files?
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15:34:41waldo_linuxstb: yes
15:35:08waldo_linuxstb: not the microsd though
15:38:15linuxstbIf it was me, I would just reformat it and then unzip again and retransfer some music.
15:38:54 Quit MethoS-- (Network is unreachable)
15:38:55waldo_reformat ... in the OF ?
15:39:48waldo_linuxstb: or from a pc ... cause then i delete the OF .. i guess
15:40:11GodEaterNico_P: so he's "cacheri" in more ways than one then ;)
15:40:36linuxstbwaldo_: From a PC. The OF is stored in the second partition, so should be safe. Although I don't own a Sansa, so am not sure what (if any) files from the FAT32 partition the OF needs.
15:42:18waldo_hmmm, on the partition i will format there is a SYSTEM directory ... can i find somewhere wether i may format it ?
15:43:52Nico_Phehe :)
15:44:02Nico_PGodEater: any luck with logf?
15:44:18linuxstbwaldo_: I've exhausted my Sansa knowledge - you'll need to wait and hope someone else can help you...
15:46:08waldo_linuxstb: i've always depended on the kindness of strangers :)
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15:56:18pixelmawaldo_: I can only share user experience (not sure enough about the partitions to dare giving you an advice) but - when I plug my c250 from an "off state" to USB with inserted microSD, the OF starts but doesn't register the data connection. I also have to take the microSD out and wait for the connection to be established then I can insert it again.
15:57:29waldo_pixelma: any experience with formating the damn thing ?
15:57:52pixelmaand are you sure your Sansa crashes in the "Refresh database" screen, because on mine it just stays ages with the "full" progressbar but will finish
15:58:08pixelmawaldo_: nope, didn't need to do it yet
15:58:51GodEaterNico_P: sorry - really busy at work today - haven't had a chance
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16:01:33pixelmawaldo_: addition to my statement about the refresh database progressbar - if you leave the microSD plugged the OF will start a second run (searching the card I assumme) that's why I always take it out again before disconnecting
16:04:48waldo_pixelma: what version of the OF are you running ?
16:05:06pixelmaabout the two partitions I just know that the smaller one is the "system" partition which is 16MB IIRC
16:06:28pixelmawaldo_: a very old one... 1.00.04F
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16:10:12linuxstbpixelma: Have you ever deleted the "system" folder on your c250?
16:10:15waldo_pixelma: min is a 1.00.3E ... so i'd like to update it .. but seen as how it seems my partion's filesystem maight be a bit 'quirky' ... i'd like to fix that first before updating the OF
16:11:23pixelmalinuxstb: no
16:13:52waldo_just saw and the guy says that the updater writes a file to the player and then when you disconnect it the player updates itself .. so if my partition is no longer ok .. it could go haywire since it doesn't write to the hidden partition directly
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16:36:10magpiee280...when i select one of the original sansa photos nothing happens...doesnt' display
16:36:21magpiewonder what happened there
16:36:51linuxstbRockbox can only view .jpg files. What format are those photos?
16:36:55waldo_formatting it from the OF and reinstalling rockbox fixed the DB problem ... fsck.vfat still give same arror though
16:37:15waldo_but i can live with this situation :)
16:37:19pixelmawaldo_: as I said, I can't and don't want to give you advice about reformating but when you figured it out and are set for an OF upgrade - in versions 1.01.05/06 Sandisk removed the MSC mode (USB) setting, I've heard that this is no problem under linux but I'd avoid it
16:37:24magpieand they should be resized to the size of the screen, right?
16:37:55linuxstbmagpie: Rockbox will do approximate resizing of jpegs, but only by a factor of 2 (1/2, 1/4, 1/8)
16:37:58magpiei had a couple of v2s
16:38:23magpieis there a way to get rockbox on the v2?
16:38:42pixelmalinuxstb, magpie: if I remember correctly the e200 OF stores its photos as bmp and also slightly larger than the display size
16:38:51magpiei guess i should ask: is there a way to rollback the firmware on v2 so i can put rockbox on?
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16:39:14linuxstbmagpie: It's not a firmware issue, the hardware is completely different in the v2.
16:39:24*pixelma is too slow
16:39:26magpieah, the chip, right?
16:40:01PaulPositionHmm.. Flyspray gives weird mime warnings when posting comments. Posting *does* occur however.
16:41:41waldo_pixelma: removed MSC ?? but the sansa updater itself needs the player to be put in MSC ... that makes it the final firmware update u guess ;)
16:44:53pixelmawaldo_: no, they removed the setting. It is possible to roll the firmware back you can still get into it by a sequence of holding buttons, switch hold and so on - it is described here
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16:45:37preglowjhMikeS: cool, i think i had a hang because of that yesterday :)
16:46:19waldo_can't wait for a working USB stack then, and get rid of the OF once and for all
16:46:27pixelmaSandisk seems to be fond of this method to get the player in specific "mode" (recovery mode, manufacturer mode and whatnot)
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16:47:03thgzWhen I play an mp3 file and stop it either pressing stop or shut-downing the device, and when continuing playback, Rockbox switches automatically to next track...
16:47:05*preglow loves the spc codec
16:47:34LambdaCalculus37waldo_: Bet you anything that there will be cheers galore across the forums and IRC when the USB stack is working.
16:47:38thgzIt don't remember the position...
16:48:06LambdaCalculus37thgz: What device?
16:50:31*PaulPosition loves Buschel (not in a gay way). 6:49 runtime vs. 7:15 in the OF, that PortalPlayer support is slowly getting there :D
16:51:08linuxstbPaulPosition: Which device is that on?
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16:52:10PaulPositionLinuxstb - H10 5gb and oooold battery. :p
16:52:41PaulPosition(OF benched through recording output and looking at wave's lenght)
16:53:17PaulPosition(IIRC, it was you who suggested this, long time ago... :p )
16:55:07LambdaCalculus37PaulPosition: Imagine what the runtime might be with a fresh battery... :)
16:58:46PaulPositionLambda - True, might get close to the advertised 12hrs. Gotta have a look at ebay. :p
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17:00:12LambdaCalculus37PaulPosition: Batteries for the H10 pop up there quite often, and usually for $10 USD or so.
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17:14:17thgzLamblacAlculus37: Sansa E250
17:15:41LambdaCalculus37Don't own that device.
17:15:59LambdaCalculus37Insert "I" into the above
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17:16:51rasherDoes anyone remember the sequencer someone wrote for the h100? What happened to it?
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17:23:23rasher <−− there it is
17:24:32LambdaCalculus37Wonder if it'll still compile...
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17:25:37rasherI have an old build with it included. Dated 2005-09-29, for h100
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17:42:29PaulPositionIf (big IF) I wanted to try and build myself (and why not others) an ear-training plugin/game (notes, intervals, scales/chords) what would you guys think I should try to highjack/salvage from for sound? midi-plugin? (I guess it'd be simpler to go the 'metronome' way and limit myself to one octave using a dozen mp3s..?)
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17:55:43waldo_someone said that the sansa c200 v2 is too slow for rockbox .. does that mean that there will never be a build for it ? 'cause a friend of mine is waiting to buy a v2 untill there is a rockbox build available for it ... guess he could wait a long time then ...
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17:56:56LambdaCalculus37waldo_: Whoever said that is speaking rubbish. The c200 v2 is also internally different, just like the e200 v2 is different internally from the v1.
17:58:41PaulPosition(which means he could wait longer still :p )
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18:00:00n1sBut it has nothing to do with speed
18:00:37Domonokyarg, i tryed the manual restore for my ipod (as itunes didnt want to restore it), and now it tells me to connect the wallcharger, and i dont have one :-/
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18:03:20linuxstbDomonoky: Which ipod is that?
18:03:42Domonoky4th gen, greyscale
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18:04:59waldo_LambdaCalculus37: i'll tell him the good and the bad news :D
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18:07:11ipoduserhi all, please help. I cannot connect my ipodnano 1G after applying mbr-nano4gb.bin with dd command!
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18:09:58ipoduserit does not show up anymore when I plug it in under my kubuntu
18:10:31*Domonoky heads out to buy this damnd ipod wallcharger.. :-/
18:11:11n1sI have a fix for FS #8461 does it make sense to save the "Toggle Slideshow" setting too?
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18:14:25ipoduserI followed the guide at because I run linux but at the step d) it does not connect again to my pc
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18:15:41ipoduserI used the linux dd command, was that not right?
18:16:19krazykitdid you change the /dev stuff appropriately?
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18:16:35krazykitso /dev/sdX versus /dev/diskX
18:17:05ipoduseri used /dev/sdb as I found it in qtparted
18:17:07Mode"#rockbox +o lostlogic " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
18:17:14Mode"#rockbox -o lostlogic " by lostlogic (n=lostlogi@rockbox/developer/lostlogic)
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18:20:01krazykitipoduser, i'm really not familiar with troubleshooting this particular process. when you plug it in again, you should at least see something in dmesg
18:20:43ipoduserdo i just run dmesg from konsole?
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18:22:45krazykitipoduser, yep. you should also see nodes in /dev created
18:22:54ipoduser[ 194.728000] usb 1-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2[ 194.848000] usb 1-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71[ 195.072000] usb 1-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
18:23:12ipoduserand later:
18:23:16ipoduser[ 716.316000] usb 2-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 9[ 716.724000] usb 2-1: device not accepting address 9, error -71
18:26:41linuxstbipoduser: Is your ipod in disk mode?
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18:27:23linuxstbipoduser: Then your computer won't see it...
18:27:38ipoduserlinuxstb, it asks me to select my language always I connect it now
18:28:12linuxstbReboot (hold menu+select for a few seconds), then immediately press and hold SELECT+PLAY.
18:28:30linuxstbYour ipod should go into the black-and-white disk mode screen.
18:28:52ipoduseri'm in disk mode, wow!
18:30:16ipoduserit should be /dev/sdb now i think from what i see in dmesg
18:31:16ipoduserqt parted says there are two partitions
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18:31:43krazykitipoduser, that sounds correct. you should be able to continue with the instructions
18:31:50ipodusercan i format the larger second one?
18:32:35ipoduserlinuxstb, krazykit, thank you folks!
18:33:31krazykitipoduser, the instructions should fill you in for the rest of the process :)
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19:03:13Domonokyfun: the manual restore didnt restore the ipod correctly, but the ipodpatcher failed to add the bootloader, and instead fixed apple os :-)
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20:11:24WeejayHi guys! Just wanted to report back that rockbox works very well on my Sana e260. It is ridiculous how easy everything was....and I did it the manual route :-D
20:11:57WeejayI am able play flack and ogg :-D
20:12:04 Join stripwax [0] (
20:13:12Weejaythe only issue I noticed is that after I uploaded my ogg and flac files, suddenly I do not see the MUSIC folder. I just see the root folder, and selecting it just takes me to the songs.
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20:15:07LambdaCalculus37Weejay: The Sansa hides the MUSIC folder. You can either unhide it, or make a new folder to put your music in.
20:15:23WeejayHow can I unhide it. That is so silly :-P
20:15:25PaulPositionIf you reboot into sansa firmware it will re-hide the folder every time.
20:15:57PaulPositionYou can use the quickmenu (probably long press of left/cancel or some such) and set the file-view to ALL instead of 'supported'
20:16:02PaulPosition(in rockbox, that is)
20:16:12PaulPositionI'm not sure which key it is for sansa's
20:16:51Weejayfound it...nice!
20:18:11Weejayalso I was wondering, does rockbox use linux kernel??? I am not sure what is involved in the firmware
20:18:45LambdaCalculus37No, Rockbox is its own kernel.
20:18:54DomonokyWeejay: no rockbox is written from scratch, no linux in it..
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20:19:13WeejayCool. Micro-kernel or monolithic?
20:19:50Weejayman you guy have done a awesome job! I most impressed by the fact that you have one image for all supported devices.
20:20:28Weejaypetur: ??
20:20:34Domonokythere is one source for all device, but seperate builds..
20:20:39peturthere's no image for all players
20:20:47*petur slow
20:20:56rasherUnless you mean the actual pictures..
20:20:57Weejayah. gocha.
20:21:14Weejayrasher: no i was incorrect.
20:21:26rasherpetur: we have a picture for all supported devices
20:23:38*petur gives up and minds his own business
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20:24:51DomonokyWeejay: the rockbox kernel is very small, it doesnt have many features, and i think its monolithic..
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20:25:49DomonokyWeejay: take a look at:
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20:28:01toensmy ipod video stalls on "Rockbox loaded." −− how can i emergency boot it to start the installation again?>
20:28:15toens(i cant load original firmware either)
20:28:36Domonokytoens: reboot and go into diskmode.. (button combos for this is in the manual i think)
20:28:39Horschtwhen the light of the apple boot logo turns on, turn the hold switch to on
20:28:49Horschtoh, wait..
20:28:53Horschtemergency boot.
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20:29:53*petur wants to teach logbot about
20:31:37toenspetur, that page is helpful
20:31:43*scorche|w wants to teach logbot to use messages to the channel and PMs instead of notices
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20:45:03toens"The reset procedure is hard-wired to the iPod, thus it will work always. You might need to hold down the described buttons for quite a while (up to 30 seconds or similar)." - i've done this three times for a minute each time. still not resetting :/
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20:46:21scorche|wthen either you have something very broken, your battery is dead, or you are doing it wrong
20:46:41scorche|wflip the hold switch on, then off, then hold menu + select for a bit
20:46:49scorche|wtry not to move your fingers
20:47:05toensthat's exactly what i did.
20:47:29toensi deleted the "Notes" and "Calendar" folder from my ipod's root directory
20:47:44toenscould that be causing all this?>
20:47:59LambdaCalculus37No, I don't think so.
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21:23:29toensguess i should charge the battery to full
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21:34:40Nico_Pamiconn: here?
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21:48:15toensnoob question: in diskmode (on the ipod), can i format the drive with windows and then install rockbox? will the original firmware still be there?
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22:00:06SmilinBobso, i installed rockbox on my 5g ipod
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22:00:44SmilinBobnow when i plug it into my comp it detects it as a "Rock Box Media player" but i can't install drivers for it
22:00:57SmilinBobany suggestions?
22:01:34Nico_PSmilinBob: the USB stack isn't yet functional enough to allow file transfer
22:01:40BigBambiUse the original firmware to transfer the files
22:01:43Nico_Pall you can do for now is charge the player
22:02:01Nico_P"New USB stack with limited capability. Currently it only requests full charging power. Ignore driver popups from Windows." (from the front page)
22:02:21SmilinBoboh, must have missed that
22:02:43SmilinBobso i have to boot into the apple firmware to transfer songs?
22:03:05BigBambiOr disk mode
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22:16:14toenshow am i supposed to reset my ipod when the key combo to reset it is the same as the key combo that boots rockbox?
22:16:49Domonokytoens: its not the same, the timing differs.. and the combo loads the OF not rockbox..
22:17:23toensDomonoky, no OF is just the menu button.
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22:17:40toensi've tried many different timings
22:17:50toens(and i've toggled the hold button)
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22:18:30Domonokyyou mean select + men ? the reset combo ?
22:18:49toensi just wanna reset this thing
22:18:51stripwaxtoens: rockbox doesn't have a "key combo" to boot it, unless you are using an unofficial bootloader
22:18:51toensand start over
22:19:05stripwaxthe key combination is just hold down select + menu (while the hold switch is 'off')
22:19:15Domonokyselect+ menu for ~ 15 seconds should always work..
22:19:25stripwaxtoens - as in, hold them *both* for that time
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22:20:31toensi hold them both. properly. for around 15 seconds. then it just loads rockbox
22:20:43toensthis rockbox bootloader is from like a year ago
22:22:29toensmaybe i'm resetting it without knowing heh
22:22:33Domonokytoens: after holding the combo, it should reboot, if this is rockbox, its another issue..
22:22:43toenswhat happens after a successful reset?
22:23:01Domonokythe screen goes out shortly, then it boots again..
22:23:03toensshouldnt it restore to factory settings etc>
22:23:15Domonokyno.. it only reboots.
22:23:32Domonokyits like the reset button on you PC..
22:23:55BigBambitoens: This is a hardware combo - if it doesn't work either you have a hardware problem or you aren't doing it right
22:24:02BigBambiRockbox does not affect it
22:24:04toensawesome. ive just reset it 100 times
22:24:28BigBambiheh :)
22:24:52BigBambitoens: What are you trying to do the reset for?
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22:26:07stripwaxtoens - what are you *trying* to do? reboot? or reset the settings? or boot into the apple os? those are three different things. you are rebooting
22:26:28toenswell i tried updating my rockbox version (havent updated in a while). but it would just stall on "Rockbox loaded."
22:26:43toensso naturally i just wanted to start fresh. ie. reset to factory settings and start over
22:26:45stripwaxdid you update the bootloader at the same time?
22:26:55stripwaxcould you try doing that?
22:27:02toensi would have tried that :p
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22:27:20stripwax"would have"?
22:27:45stripwaxdo you not know how?
22:28:43toensit's in the manual
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22:29:20stripwaxok .. so I'm guessing that either you haven't tried yet, or you have but it didn't work. not sure what "i would have tried that" means, unfortunately
22:30:14stripwaxIt's possible that, if your previous rockbox version was quite old, you would need to update your bootloader too, for the new rockbox installation to work correctly.
22:30:26toensi want the feeling of installing a clean OS on a formatted drive
22:30:34toensbut anyway, not serious
22:31:00stripwaxtoens - I mean, sure if you want to do that, probably easiest is to run the apple updater, which will zap rockbox and reinstall the apple os (as I understand it)
22:31:07 Quit jimpsm ("CGI:IRC")
22:31:21stripwaxbut try reinstalling the (latest) bootloader first. e.g. using RockboxUtility
22:32:18toenswhat is rockbox.ipod btw?
22:32:29n1sthe main biary
22:33:18toensalright.. youve all been super helpful
22:33:22toensi go fiddle now *gone*
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22:56:07*Buschel plays around with the PCF registers on his 5G
22:58:39BuschelD3REG seems to be the BCM, D1REG the WM, DCDC1 the CPU
22:58:48Buschelat least it might be
23:04:44preglowanything you might gain by playing around with those?
23:05:06BuschelD1REG default = 3.0V, works with 2.7V, works with 1.8V, playback fails when switched off
23:06:24stripwaxWM = ?
23:06:36Buschelthe codec
23:06:53stripwaxthe dac?
23:07:05peturhmmm that buildserver is actually slowing down building :/
23:07:23Bagderyeah, I'll trim that down to only do sh builds I think
23:07:45Bagderuntil the shiny day comes when the build script is improved
23:07:46 Join Casainho [0] (
23:07:55Casainhohello Rockbox people :-)
23:08:05BuschelDCDC2 can be switched off, DCDC1 (CPU?) can lowered to 1.1V. testing 1.0V now
23:08:57CasainhoI would like to know if RB work with USB? and If it works with some kind of wireless? - I am asking this because of planing hte hardware for RB player...
23:09:17krazykitCasainho, haven
23:09:18LloreanCasainho: Rockbox has no USB stack or no wireless.
23:09:23stripwaxBuschel - when you say default, that's the level currently set by rockbox? the dac can be lowered from 3.0v to 1.8v? zowie
23:09:29 Quit pondlife (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:09:35peturalso, I don't understand why the ipod 3rd gen is two versions behind. One I can understand as it may be the last one building... but two?
23:09:35LloreanRockbox works with USB under certain circumstances.
23:09:50CasainhoLlorean: can you please explain that circunstances?
23:09:55Buschelstripwax: yes, it isn't set by rockbox. it seems to be default of the power controller
23:10:23pixelmapetur: probably the rbutil commit thaz didn't trigger a build round?
23:10:34 Quit JdGordon|w ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:10:55peturbut why only one target?
23:11:13LloreanCasainho: The players it works on have some form of hardware USB-ATA bridge. Ones where we need a software USB stack, it doesn't work with yet
23:11:53 Join uwe__ [0] (
23:12:01pixelmapetur: I thought that was the part you already understood?
23:12:02CasainhoSo, It's a good idea to make an hardware with USB, or not? and the same question about wireless like bluetooth...
23:12:05Buschel1.0V freezes, trying 1.05V
23:12:40preglowBuschel: i would expect the codec to distort more at higher volumes if you lower the voltage too much
23:12:49rasherCasainho: adding any sort of wireless connection would require adding a ton of support to Rockbox
23:12:53preglowtry playing a sine wave at max volume with reduced voltage
23:13:11BagderCasainho: but with usb hw like the ones we support you can't do usb host/otg
23:13:15Buschelpreglow: i need to test this, as a first step i am interested in "works on not"
23:13:15CasainhoLlorean: ok, I think I understand that about ATA... I think I saw in sfotware in RB ATA drivers, right? - reading from flash memories, SD card, is with a ATA driver, no? :-)
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23:13:26pixelmapetur: I'm also only guessing here but your argument seemed logical :)
23:13:27Bagderno, SD is not ata
23:14:13Casainhookok, so, about connectivity, what a hardware player for Rockbox should have?
23:14:30peturpixelma: but the build before this one was done by a 'reliable' server, so I'm clueless about this one...
23:14:37BagderCasainho: usb
23:15:20pixelmapetur: yes and the last commit that triggered a rebuild was two revisions behind (because of the rbutil commit)
23:15:21CasainhoBagder: also SD card, no? - I assume SD card as a way to share files, connect...
23:15:39stripwaxincreasing volume => increasing voltage ..
23:16:02Bagderwell, if you count a memory card as "connectivity" then yes
23:16:30stripwaxif the only storage is SD, is it worth adding usb too?
23:17:19CasainhoBagder: what can you tell-me about the USB on the Atmel AT91SAM9260? - I would like to know If it have some kind of USB-ATA inside or not...
23:17:37Bagderit needs a usb stack
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23:20:29CasainhoBagder: okok :-) - at least, will the SD card work, on that board?
23:20:53peturBagder: there's something strange with the ipod 3rd gen build: it is now two versions behind and all builds are done. Maybe the copy from palmtopia fails?
23:21:03pixelmahmm... there are a few more warnings in simulator builds all by the server (in wma.c)
23:21:55petursomebody kicked the buildserver ;)
23:21:58Bagderpalmtopia will now only build sh builds
23:22:42BagderCasainho: sure, with a suitable driver it should
23:22:54JdGordon|wBagder: did you end up adding my computer?
23:23:09Bagderah no... not yet
23:23:20Bagderis it fine?
23:23:48JdGordon|wthe quad core is...
23:23:49Bagderpetur: "terminating due to too long operation"
23:24:13 Quit uwe_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:24:15Bagderkind of silly, since it was ====> <==== this close to finish
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23:24:42CasainhoBagder: so, the driver in RB for Sansa SD card will not work? - what are the difference? - hardware?... I am lost... :-)
23:25:29BagderCasainho: the (micro)sd thing in rockbox is for sansa, I don't know how suitable that is for your setup. should be mostly the same of course
23:26:48LloreanCasainho: Unless you have the exact same hardware, attached in the exact same way, you'll always have to do some, possibly a lot, of new code.
23:27:06CasainhoBagder: Okok, I really appreciate the help from everybody. I will now write this on forum, I think is good to understand that there is no need to dream for a super hardware with wireless :-)
23:27:34BagderI think your "simple audio player" focus get blurry at times...
23:28:09CasainhoLlorean: in this case, the hardware, is inside the MCU... I thought it was like SPI, I2C, like this protocols...
23:28:29Bagderspi and i2c are busses
23:28:35CasainhoBagder: can you please explain?
23:28:38 Join tedrock [0] (
23:28:42Bagderread wikipedia
23:29:07BagderI wouldn't know where to start...
23:29:32pixelmapetur: it was one available (downloadable) version behind, just two revisions
23:29:50CasainhoBagder: I know what "blurry" means , however... I would like objective words
23:30:03Bagderah that
23:30:03Casainhowords, chat...
23:30:12BagderI mean that wifi is hardly part of a simple audio player
23:30:22Bagderyou used to skip stuff since you aim at a simple audio player
23:31:02Casainhoyes, but, have logic to skip wireless since It will not work?
23:31:18stripwax"wireless = hard"
23:31:21Bagderno, you should skip wifi since it isn't part of a "simple audio player"
23:32:06Bagderif you want a big fancy and cool feature-packed thing, then add wifi
23:32:18Bagderbut then you should also get a better LCD and whatnot
23:32:33Casainhobut, add wifi for what, If It will not work?
23:32:34Bagderimho of course
23:32:41Bagder"will work"?
23:32:42stripwaximo sd interface (and no usb) would be simpler
23:32:52Bagderall your stuff will require coding
23:32:59Bagdersome things more than others
23:33:05LloreanI think USB is essential. It's a good method to charge, too.
23:33:06stripwaxCasainho - add as many hardware features as you like :) but then how simple is it?
23:33:07preglowwifi will require tons of it
23:33:09Bagderif you're scared writing code, you should get out of this idea
23:33:10stripwaxah true
23:33:11LloreanI'd pick USB over an SD card.
23:33:15 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:33:22LloreanYou could always have a full size SD slot.
23:33:33LloreanThen, in the future, if people want WiFi, they could write drivers for one of those WiFi SD cards.
23:33:36stripwax"wireless = hard" ... still ...
23:33:48Bagderwireless is quite a task
23:34:10Bagdernot to mention the apps people will want in step #2...
23:34:17rasherLlorean: doesn't sdio require hardware support?
23:34:18JdGordon|wadd bluetooth!
23:34:40Lloreanrasher: Yes, but if you're designing a hardware player, you could plan for that in the future, rather than trying to implement wifi from the start,right?
23:34:50LloreanPick hardware where sdio is possible.
23:34:58rasheryes, sure
23:35:09rashersomething to keep in mind if you want it extendable though
23:36:22 Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death")
23:36:27Casainhothis possible option: AT91SAM9260 + LCD NOKIA 6610 + 8MB flash + 8/16MB SDRAM + nRF24L01 wireless chip + audio CODEC + Li-ion battery + charger + miniUSB + buttons, price in range of 100 €.
23:36:45LloreanWhy do you want a wireless chip?
23:36:50stripwaxwhy why why
23:37:00stripwaxwriting an ip stack is a full time job
23:37:11Bagderip stack is not the problem actually
23:37:15Bagderlwip is there
23:37:15Casainhobut with bluetooh, instead of that wireless ic... maybe, I don't know
23:37:15LloreanI'd prefer on-unit storage, and more RAM, than a wireless chip
23:37:48 Quit jcollie ("Ex-Chat")
23:38:21Casainhowe could pick an option like that, and chose a better LCD and a good wireless option
23:38:50LloreanWhy do you seem so fixated on wireless?
23:38:57*BigBambi joins in with the why wireless (or bluetooth) cries
23:39:19Bagderthe zune has it!
23:39:28BigBambiSort of :)
23:39:31pixelmamouse input! ;)
23:39:31soapbluetooth consumes little power and gives you wireless headphones. WiFi consumes much power and gives you little.
23:39:35LloreanI'd pick Bluetooth over WiFi personally.
23:39:44LloreanFor almost exactly the reason soap just mentioned.
23:39:46Casainhookok, I just read some other people talking about that, and even that option were proposed buy the guy from Olimex :-)
23:39:49BigBambisoap, Llorean me too, but in this sort of player?
23:39:57LloreanNot in this sort of player
23:40:18soapwell, admit it is not going to "compete" with any factory player on size, price, or capacity.
23:40:20LloreanI mean, you picked a small screen, tiny RAM... adding WiFi seems very contrary.
23:40:56BigBambiIt seems completely out of keeping with the rest of the hardware
23:40:58soapinternal interface for future modders is the only thing _I_ would spend money on.
23:41:04Casainhowell, I am talking for next version, not the version using the dev. board...
23:41:12stripwaxhow many versions are you designing?
23:41:22stripwax(and when's the first version come out? :)
23:41:24toenswhat could be the reason for ipodpatcher failing to install the bootloader? it finds the ipod. then says "request could not be performed because of a device I/O error"
23:41:35BagderI don't think of the dev board as a version at all...
23:41:36 Nick phossy is now known as BitTorment (
23:41:39BigBambiI would have better screen, more ram, on board storage, ... before wifi
23:41:46stripwaxand that's on windows xp as Administrator
23:41:49 Nick BitTorment is now known as BitTormen (
23:41:53soaptoens, I'm not sure of the exact error given - but do you have admin access to the machine you are using RBUtil on?
23:42:16toensi have admin access. not using rbutil, just executing ipodpatcher.exe
23:42:25 Nick BitTormen is now known as BitTorment (
23:42:48 Quit n1s ()
23:43:04Casainhowell, we are talking here about possibilities for future... nothing more. I want to have ideas for futures things, even to say to people what can we have in future If we start working now on that :-)
23:43:39LloreanI'd say, finish what you've got first.
23:43:42LloreanDon't confuse things
23:43:58 Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (
23:44:25scorche|wCasainho: try not to get ahead of yourself and focus on the first task
23:44:55stripwaxBagder - out of interest, why would an ip stack be so straightforward (when a usb stack seems so hard)?
23:45:00stripwaxjust prevalence?
23:45:17 Quit stewball`ghost (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:45:20Bagderstripwax: just that there already exist pretty neat tiny ip stacks
23:45:41BigBambiBagder: In zune linux? :)
23:45:41Bagderso with fully documented hw and a dev board, I don't think that's the problem area
23:46:01Bagderzune linux has it all!
23:46:54Casainhoscorche|w: I am also focus on this task, I am working a bit all days :-) - but I must also plan the future... - okok, enough chat for today :-) - I will go and think on this thiings :-) - nbye bye - good nigh :-)
23:46:55stripwaxheh - so (potentially) wifi might be easier than usb?
23:46:57BagderI think the problems with the usb stack is that the behavior of the chip is surprising and we have no proper docs and no dev boards nor analyzing tools
23:47:26Bagderstripwax: well on such a board the usb parts will be much easier
23:47:34scorche|wCasainho: after you get done with the first generation, you will likely have a completely different view on the 2nd generation
23:47:35stripwaxah - true. with docs..
23:47:45LloreanYeah, from the sound of it, the USB stack was in a state where all the information we had said it should work, but it wasn't, right?
23:47:56Bagderatmel even has a freely availabe usb-storage stack for the at91 chips
23:48:08Bagdernot open source, but still food for reading
23:48:31BagderLlorean: yes, that's my understanding
23:49:40 Quit ol_schoola (Success)
23:51:59stripwaxtoens - hey - is it formatted FAT32 ? :-D
23:52:20 Quit petur ("*plop*")
23:52:23toensyes :p
23:53:35stripwaxhm, and still doesn't work?
23:53:56 Join FOAD_ [0] (
23:54:26toensgetting itunes now *cringe*
23:55:04stripwaxtoens - out of interest, how was it formatted before? did you use the apple restore thing and it somehow formatted to something other than fat32?
23:55:46stripwaxrockbox will *only* work with a fat32 formatted drive.
23:56:35toensi think the apple restore thing kinda requires you to use itunes after its done. to choose whether you'll be using mac or windows.
23:56:55stripwaxmm, could be. choose "windows" :[
23:56:56CasainhoDomonoky: hello! did you seen the changes that I made today? - tomorrow I will put the connections to the main board and to the pins of the MCU :-)
23:56:58 Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.)
23:56:59stripwaxI mean :p
23:57:01 Join idnar_ [0] (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
23:58:02PaulPositionHey, a sound question, not too off topic I hope.. How does 'stereo width' have a sense without crossfeed?
23:58:22stripwaxbtw - did you try reinstalling rockbox bootloader before apple restore, or just go with apple restore as a first attempt?
23:58:43CasainhoBagder: on the other day you were telling me about options to boot that MCU... and I have a question: can It boot from NAND flash and have on the same NAND the FAT32 system?
23:58:57Bagderyes it can boot from nand

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