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#rockbox log for 2008-01-25

00:00:05stripwaxtoens - you use the apple os often also?
00:01:16CasainhoBagder: I read that It boots from NAND, serail data flash, USB and serial... but, assuming that it boots from NAND, can i write a #1 bootloader to after mount a FAT32 on the rest of the NAND flash? - what do you thing of this idea?
00:02:12stripwaxnot too sure what stereo width > 100 means, however..
00:02:34BagderCasainho: sounds like a working approach
00:03:01BagderCasainho: but are you then adding a "fixed" nand flash to the player?
00:03:19Bagderor are you only talking dev board here
00:03:23Casainhothe dev board have NAND flash, serial data flash, USB, serial port... but I would like to write a bootloader thinking in that "simple hardware player", simple meaning with less IC's as possible :-)
00:03:41Bagderand does that mean nand?
00:04:00pixelmaPaulPosition: stereo width is also something the hwcodec Archoses can do, in contrast to crossfeed (I'm also not sure of the details)
00:04:09Bagderbecause I don't understand why you would work on _different_ boot methods on the dev board compared to the planned player
00:04:34PaulPositionstripwax - Good thinking, more than 100 sounds weird if there's no delay introduced :p
00:04:36Casainhowell, a player with 8 MB of fixed memory, for have rockbox on there, and after have an SD card port, for memory to audio files, etc...
00:05:26stripwaxgnight all
00:05:31 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:05:43Buschelgood night, test is runnig over night :)
00:05:46 Quit Buschel ()
00:05:51PaulPositionAnyway, listening to those old Vangelis, pink floyd or beach boys, I learnt to appreciate crossfeed a lot. :D
00:05:57 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:05:58 Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (
00:06:03CasainhoI thinking as you, try to work as possible next to the planned player :-)
00:06:32Casainhobut I am discovering, I don't know, It's my first time... :-)
00:07:06 Quit styleism ()
00:08:07Casainhoyou already give the idea of put a bootloader on different memory from NAND flash, and have NAND flash for FAT32... - but I would like to know if would be possible to use just the NAND flash IC...
00:08:24BagderI already gave you that idea too
00:08:57Bagdera flash is just memory
00:09:02Bagderyou can use it however you like
00:09:07scorche|wCasainho: like i said...just worry about the first will learn a lot of things you will need to do differently on the second, but dont worry about the second till the time is right
00:10:15Casainhoah, okok :-) - so, Its possible :-) - because now I will focus on that idea of use just the NAND flash... thats important because I must know what I will use of the dev board and also to not disperse on information :-)
00:10:44Bagderbut again...
00:10:50Bagderare you then adding a "fixed" nand flash to the player?
00:11:31Casainhoscorche|w: but I think that the first step, or the next, is to write the bootloader, and I must know what memories I will use to that, and I must understand the boot process...
00:12:15 Quit micr0c0sm (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:12:20CasainhoBagder: I don't understand your question :-) - I would like to have "fixed" flash memory in player just to hold the RB, maybe just 8MB
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00:12:28scorche|wCasainho: yes...i am talking about all of your comments "for the 2nd gen player"....dont even think that the second gen player till you are done with the first
00:12:45CasainhoI did answer for what I understand.. I don't know if right
00:12:49BagderCasainho: yes, but not an 8mb NAND?
00:13:07BagderI thought you had a serial NOR flash
00:13:20Casainhooh men, I am confused!! :-)
00:13:57CasainhoBagder: please stop! don't tell me that I am mistake :-) :-)
00:14:25Casainhoscorche|w: okok
00:14:33BagderI promise to stop now, I'm off to bed... ;-)
00:14:51CasainhoBagder: it says: "512MB NAND Flash (seen in Linux as silicon drive)"
00:15:14Bagderthat's the DEV BOARD
00:15:20Bagdernot your planned player, right?
00:15:36Bagderor am I wrong?
00:15:53Casainhomore or less, I don't really know... :-)
00:16:12CasainhoI know that it have much more than that planned player needs...
00:16:17BagderI thought you'd use the dev board to develop the stuff that would run on the rockboxplayerv1 hw
00:16:24 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
00:16:49Bagderthat's how I would've done it
00:16:54Bagdergood night!
00:16:58Casainhowell, V1 will be with that dev board, V2 the Olimex versdion.,..
00:17:12Casainhookok - good night :-)
00:18:59 Quit desowin ()
00:19:01rockhoyou know what I'd like on rockbox
00:19:27rockhomore bass.
00:19:48LloreanPlease tell me you're kidding.
00:20:47Seedget the latest Prodigy album.. it has "more bass" :)
00:21:12scorche|wugh...loudness wars...
00:22:04SeedCalifornication by the RHCP has more of everything.. not just bass
00:22:06 Quit Casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox]")
00:22:29kslaterhey, anyone that's contributed to the Rockbox project - great job. So much better than the firmware that Sansa put on the device (e250)
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00:24:04JdGordon|wSeed: yeah... more of the same crap that rhcp are known for... now if they added more skill and variety it might have been a half decent cd
00:25:03*rasher coughs
00:25:38 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:26:00*Llorean wonders what any of this has to do with "Rockbox"
00:26:44Seedmusic you should never play on a Rockboxed device
00:27:07toenschange your headphones
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00:35:02PaulPositionHey, Frusciante and Flea are skilled mofos' .. :grrr:
00:35:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:35:33Seedlet's not add to the offtopicness
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01:21:39Nico_PjhMikeS: something I just thought about regarding the playback glitching problem... in boost_codec_thread the codec thread prio is set to realtime. Doesn't that almost surely cause the buffering thread to starve and therefor the codec thread itself too?
01:22:41Nico_PSome time ago I tried raising the buffering thread prio to realtime in there too, but I think that maybe neither should be set to realtime
01:23:30jhMikeSNico_P: any two threads at the same priority will both be scheduled round-robin
01:24:04jhMikeSbarring any removal from the run list of course which can change the order (waits, etc.)
01:24:16Nico_Pwell that patch didn't seem to improve things so I guess my theory is rubbish :(
01:25:16jhMikeSdid you try priority_yield instead of yield in buffering.c? That will ensure execution once per round regarless of base priority
01:25:27Nico_Pah, no
01:25:33Nico_Pdidn't know about it
01:26:17Nico_PI can't try myself though... have you ever experienced these issues yourself?
01:26:41jhMikeSvery rarely after skipping around
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01:28:45jhMikeSperhaps one or two breaks before buffering catches up, never anything extensive. sometimes I get the noise thing that's been reported.
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01:30:51Nico_PjhMikeS: do you think you could give the prioriy_yield idea a try?
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01:31:38jhMikeSI did and it seemed a little faster at the start but I think it should be tested on a player that has major trouble.
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01:33:42Nico_Pwhat player do you have?
01:34:20jhMikeSe200, 3g, H120, Gigabeat S, X5, H10-20GB
01:34:34Nico_Pwow, nice list :)
01:34:35jhMikeSGigabeat F
01:34:53Nico_PI'll ask Godeater to test it
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01:34:58jhMikeSS in the works :)
01:35:03Nico_Pany luck with it btw?
01:35:18Nico_Pgetting custom code to run
01:35:30jhMikeSI got diverted but I want to get sendfirm to work on windows. libmtp should be useable there.
01:35:58Nico_Preally? I thought it was meant for POSIX systems... on cygwin maybe?
01:35:59jhMikeSI'm having trouble using the installer. I got the bootloader to start but only if not join with mknkboot
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01:36:20jhMikeSIt has a readme on compiling and using it in window in the source distribution
01:36:22mhydronichi, i searched forum but couldnt find anything on this. i have ipod 5g with latest build. if i'm playing an album and try to load another playlist, rockbox crashes.
01:36:27Nico_Pah that's still rather good news... I thought you had been completely unsuccessful
01:37:29 Quit m0f0x (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:38:05Nico_PjhMikeS: have you tried compiling libmtp and sendfirm yet?
01:39:57jhMikeSnot yet. I needed to hack on Visual Studio Express to be able to build libs first. building all that is the next project in line.
01:40:15Nico_Pgood to hear :)
01:40:32Nico_PI sent ptw419 another mail in case he didn't get the first
01:40:58XavierGrI tried the other day to send code to my Gigabeat S, all things went wrong
01:41:13Nico_Phow so?
01:41:14XavierGrfirst I couldn't make WMP and windows to recognize my S
01:41:29XavierGrthen I restored it removing the rockbox bootloader
01:41:42XavierGrbut I couldn't do it with my machine because the updater crashed all the time
01:41:54XavierGrfinally I managed to write the rockbox bootloader again with sendfirm
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01:42:25XavierGrbut now I can't sent the rockbox firmware into the S because my vmware got borked and can't compile rockbox
01:42:44XavierGrall things went wrong at the same time!
01:42:47Nico_Pyou can use senfirm within vmware?
01:43:00XavierGrnope, dind't worked the first time that I tried that
01:43:07XavierGrinstead I booted kubuntu
01:43:46XavierGrmy main problem now is to get back my development platform and then restore MTP drivers for windows/wmp
01:43:58 Quit JdGordon|w ("CGI:IRC")
01:44:05XavierGrthe strange thing is that all these worked quite fine for me in the past
01:44:07Nico_PjhMikeS: sendfirm is heavily based on libmtp's example/mtp-sendfile, so the code should be portable to windows quite easily
01:44:38Nico_PXavierGr: I'm afraid I can't be of much help... all I've ever used my S with is linux
01:44:51jhMikeSNico_P: It requires libusb and others to be built as well
01:44:53XavierGralso I am quite sure that once the rockbox bootloader is flashed you can pass the firmware with just the MTP explorer
01:44:57 Quit PaulJam (".")
01:45:02Nico_PI got gnomad2 to handle albums correctly too :)
01:45:39XavierGrNico_P: do you know if ptw's work on the interrupts was on the bootloader or the rockbox firmware?
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01:47:36Nico_PXavierGr: probabaly in the early stages of the bootloader
01:48:29 Quit karashata (" HydraIRC -> <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet")
01:48:31XavierGrI was thinking that it could be replicated in the firmware, because even with the current bootloader the firmware is loaded and crashes after the bootloader ended
01:49:07XavierGrI can't imagine having to flash all the time the unit with a new bootloader
01:50:12Nico_Pwell rockbox's bootloader is actually in a firmware file... the real bootloader is eboot.bin
01:50:42Nico_Pso you needn't reflash everytime... sendfirm doesn't flash anything
01:50:51jhMikeSNico_P: one thing I want to avoid is having to distribute anything with dlls. I think it can just be one console app.
01:51:07Nico_PjhMikeS: yes, that would be nice
01:53:07Nico_PI should go to bed now
01:53:36 Quit Nico_P ("zzZzz")
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01:56:30XavierGrholy shit, in one of the Gigabeat S cpu pdf's on the freescale site, they have a picture of an Archos Recorder (or something like that)
01:56:41XavierGr4th page
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01:59:40jhMikeSindeed. a little extra power for hwcodec I imagine :)
02:00:36XavierGrhehe, it is just somewhat strange to see devices displayed there that don't use the cpu they are reffering too
02:00:39pixelmaI _think_ that's the so called multimedia jukeboxes
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02:03:58jhMikeSSuperH is Freescale though IIRC
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02:04:24 Part Philip_0729
02:06:08pixelmacasing looks almost the same as the fm recorders (v2) but they have a colour display and a different chip
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02:08:25XavierGrjhMikeS: ah I didn't know that the cpu on the archoses is freescale
02:11:35pixelma :)
02:14:56jhMikeSA TI DSP + a MAS DSP? hrm.
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02:35:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:27:02TiMiD[FD]hi there !
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04:35:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:37:21javiskHello, all. I'm a new rockbox user
04:38:21psycho_maniacgreat. welcome to the #rockbox irc channel
04:38:45javiskThanks. I actually had a question
04:39:18javiskIt has to so with unicode fonts
04:39:33psycho_maniacjust ask the question.
04:39:55psycho_maniacand wait a few moments and somebody should be able to help you.
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04:40:56javiskWell there seem to be only two fonts listed on that support the Korean character set
04:41:11javiskand they represent two different Korean typefaces
04:41:28javiskbut there are some others that I owuld like the option to see on my DAP
04:41:45javiskSo, are there any other sources for fonts?
04:42:52cool_walking_Check here:">
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04:44:04javiskGreat. I'll look through those
04:46:15cool_walking_There's one called unifont that I think has pretty much every character, but it's not very pretty. It's in the font pack on the "extras" page.
04:47:29javiskYeah unicode and 6+12x3 support Korean
04:48:03javiskfrom the
04:48:30javiskbut that is only two choices, and at one size for each
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04:51:16javiskalso there is no choice between monospace and proportional
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04:51:43javiskthere are atleast two more major types of korean typeface
04:51:51javiskthat would be nice to see
04:52:12javiskmaybe I could convert from a ttf font to the format RB uses?
04:52:14TiMiD[FD]would be nice to have more unicode fonts
04:52:45TiMiD[FD]I suppose it's not very difficult to convert a computer font to the rockbox format
04:52:46Soapmake some.
04:52:54Soapnope - tools are provided.
04:52:57TiMiD[FD]the problem is with the licence
04:53:08SoapHard part is finding a "pretty" unicode font which is opensource.
04:53:16javiskno problem with license if I use it myself, though
04:53:23TiMiD[FD]ms arial unicode is almost perfect
04:53:50javiskI'm not a fan of it's latin portion though
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04:56:07TiMiD[FD]yeah but it covers a lot of alphabets
04:56:15TiMiD[FD]one of the most complete I know so far
04:57:25javiskit's a good fallback. I had to use it for correct display in a GTK program.
04:58:18javisk"(10:52:51 PM) Soap: nope - tools are provided." What tools are those?
04:58:32TiMiD[FD]convbdf I think
04:58:41TiMiD[FD]I've never done it myself though
04:59:40saratogaugh i still can't profiling to work
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05:00:20javiskso it is a two step process, then? ttf->bdf->fnt ?
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05:00:44TiMiD[FD]javisk: so I suppose that you first have to convert the font you want to the bdf format and then use convbdf to make a .fnt
05:01:26TiMiD[FD]or maybe more, I don't know if there are tools to convert directly from ttf to bdf
05:01:35javiskOk, Thanks
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05:04:29TiMiD[FD]seems that their download link is dead
05:07:16javiskOh? The download worked for me
05:07:25javiskBut acted very strangely...
05:07:49javiskThe webpage made me think that it would have a GUI, it looks like it runs from a CLI
05:08:29LloreanI hear Fontforge is a decent gui tool
05:08:51TiMiD[FD]I have yet to find a way to make fontforge export to bdf
05:08:58TiMiD[FD]it may be possible ...
05:09:14TiMiD[FD]but I don't like the toolkit they use
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05:10:11javiskWhat about the second step of converting to RB's fnt format?
05:10:27javiskor is it just changing the extension?
05:11:39TiMiD[FD]use the convbdf tool
05:11:55javiskOh sorry I missed that
05:13:45javiskHm I canonly find the source
05:15:37saratogai think its only in source form
05:16:03javiskThat explains it ;;
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05:27:50saratogayes finally profiled something
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06:00:48duvnellI'm wanting to know if anyone has figured out the memory address on the iRiver H10 that reads whether the pin on the connector is shorted to ground which means it is in the cradle?
06:00:56duvnellwhere would I go about posting a message about this?
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06:35:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:50:47gevaertsDoes anyone know the status of the usb_storage driver ? Is there some sort of TODO list of what remains to be done to make it functional ? I might spend some time working on it, but knowing where to start would be helpful.
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07:25:44heartsbloodIs rockbox working on the nano 3g series? All the docs says it doesn't but does that mean they havn't gotten around to it, or is it not possible?
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07:32:50heartsbloodI've seen youtube video's of rockbox running on 3g's. are they fakes?
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07:33:21cool_walking_They must be.
07:34:07rockhoI love rockbox.
07:34:15rockhobest program I ever used I think
07:34:32rockhoit made my garbage ipod color into a usable media device
07:35:13cool_walking_This ( ) looks too smooth... I guess it's a video.
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08:34:57JdGordonhmm... how long usually does the sansa take to turn back on once the battery is run completly flat? (with the charger connected obviously..)
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09:23:29crazy_busI'm trying the rockbox simulator for a e200 but the up/down keys don't work
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09:37:01cool_walking_crazy_bus: are you sure you have the right keys? if you start rockboxui with (I think) "rockboxui −−background", you'll get a picture of the key mappings.
09:38:04crazy_buscool_walking_: actually I have a correction. They work in the main menus but not in a few plugins. Such as doom. Also I don't have a numpad on this current computer so I'm using the alternate keys
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09:51:52zeeHello. Is there a function in rockbox that is executed after power on but before the first sound is produced. I.e. a place where some initial sound settings can be applied. I'm looking for a place to set the initial sound pitch.
09:53:15zeePS. The function should of course be executed after the settings have been read.
09:59:17peturcheck main.c
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10:03:46zeepetur: thanks! Is audio_init() the right place?
10:07:20zeepetur: ok, I'll try. Thank you.
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10:36:15GodEatermerry Friday everyone
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11:38:53Avi_how does one update rockbox to the most current build? i downloaded the most recent build but i do not want to delete what is already on my rockbox... what files do i replace?
11:39:10peturjust unzip it to your player
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11:39:42peturunless you edited a theme or wps and kept the same name
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11:40:03Avi_so i won't lose any current information if i just unzip it ?
11:40:10peturAvi_: unless you edited a theme or wps and kept the same name
11:40:32Avi_i did add a few themes
11:40:42Avi_so the only folders i wouldn't replace are themes and wps?
11:40:48Avi_what about icons and fonts?
11:40:58*preglow tries to remember how to extract stuff from a firmware image
11:41:03peturstuff you added will stay there
11:41:48Avi_k thanks
11:41:54peturAvi_: if you only added things and didn't change any original themes/wps/... then just unzip the whole thing
11:41:58Avi_i'm on a mac so it unzips it for me
11:42:14peturpoor fellow ;)
11:42:18Avi_i have a folder of the build
11:42:26Avi_yeah, its a bitch
11:42:36Avi_i'm kinda a newb to this thing
11:42:46*Avi_ shuns the newb
11:43:26Avi_not new to irc but to this whole rockbox deal... its pretty fun. just with this update deal not quite sure...
11:43:38Avi_but it should work fine
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11:46:44Avi_thanks peture
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11:47:30phunniI just put rockbox on my ipod mini (1st gen) and it all seems OK - except that it doesn't appear as a drive in windows... Anyone got any ideas why not?
11:47:58peturboot into apple OS before connecting
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11:53:37phunniOK - I'm now in apple OS and have connected and it's still not showing up as a drive...
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12:15:15phunniso - can I only connect it in windows when it's running apple?
12:16:00cool_walking_phunni: Yes. Rockbox's UMS (what makes the player appear as a drive letter) isn't complete yet.
12:16:15phunnifair enough I suppose - is there an eta on that?
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12:17:48cool_walking_No idea. I haven't heard of any progress on it.
12:18:05phunniOK - thanks for the help...
12:20:24cool_walking_phunni: Found this:
12:21:20peturcool_walking_: that is outdated stuff...
12:22:32phunniIt's not a huge problem - I run Linux at home and mounting it under linux seems to work perfectly. It's just if I want to use it with my PC at work that I'll have to boot under apple...
12:22:53cool_walking_Mounting under Linux doesn't work either, it's the same thing
12:23:13phunniIt most certainly does - I did it last night...
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12:23:35preglowanyone remember how to extract retailos from the ipod firmware image?
12:23:37cool_walking_Are you sure you weren't in the Apple firmware or Apple Disk Mode?
12:23:53phunni100% certain...
12:24:00GodEaterphunni: you're 100% wrong
12:24:02cool_walking_petur: Any more current info available?
12:24:05GodEaterthere is no usb mode in rockbox at all
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12:24:39GodEaterthe only usb code in rockbox currently for the ipods detects the connection and restarts the ipod in apple's disk mode
12:24:49toensexcuse my ignorance, haven't been here in a while, but i'm sure i recall plugging into USB while rockbox was loaded and it recognised the drive?
12:25:04GodEater"it" being ?
12:25:23GodEateryes, because rockbox reboots the ipod into apple's emergency disk mode
12:25:31cool_walking_Hasn't it stopped rebooting into Disk Mode, in favour of sitting there charging?
12:25:32phunnithat's not happening under windows for me - but under linux it appears as a device under /dev which can then be mounted...
12:25:38DomonokyGodEater: there is a usb stack in rockbox, but it just requests high power, no ums mode
12:25:54GodEaterDomonoky: I'm aware of this, but UMS is what's under discussion
12:26:01GodEaterphunni: see above
12:26:13GodEaterthere is *no* UMS code in rockbox
12:26:31GodEatercool_walking_: it's got flakey under windows apparently - we don't know why - it works for me
12:26:41Nico_PGodEater: hi! I've talked about the playback skipping issues with jhMikeS and he suggested something... do you think you could try it?
12:26:51GodEatercool_walking_: there is no "in favour of charging" behaviour without holding menu when you plug in the cable
12:26:56GodEaterNico_P: sure
12:27:07*GodEater git svn rebases
12:27:46Nico_PGodEater: it's quite simple: using priority_yield instead of yield in buffering.c
12:27:56GodEaterare there lots of calls to change ?
12:27:59Nico_P(there's only one yield() call)
12:27:59GodEateror just one or two ?
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12:29:07Nico_Pthanks :)
12:29:28GodEaterI even had my ipod plugged in already waiting :)
12:29:31Nico_Pmaybe adding the priority patch I made some days ago will help if that change alone doesn't
12:30:29GodEatercertainly turning off database autoupdates lowered the insane amount of disk access to merely "a few cans short of six pack" instead of "running round howling at the moon" insane...
12:32:35markunAnyone with a Gigabeat F and an iriver h1xx in here?
12:32:41GodEaternot on me
12:32:43GodEaterbut I own both
12:32:51GodEaterthe h1xx is at home
12:32:59phunnithanks for all your help guys - very useful
12:32:59markunGodEater: can you comment on this?
12:33:04pixelmamarkun: aren't you?
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12:33:36markunpixelma: I already commented on that thread :)
12:33:43GodEatermarkun: I find them on a par really
12:33:55GodEateralthough I don't use my iriver much outside my car
12:34:07markunI haven't used my iriver in a while
12:35:00markunbut if anything I had the feeling that the Gigabeat had better sound, but without a real test it's hard to say.
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12:35:34markunDoesn't Llorean have both?
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12:35:50markunand maybe linuxstb
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12:42:31crazy_busI saw a mention on a forum about Kugel's build. Is there a place where people post special builds? Because I can't find any reference to it.
12:42:52Nico_Pcrazy_bus: there's a forum section for those
12:43:46crazy_busthanks. I see it now
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12:48:47GodEaterNico_P: didn't help
12:49:11GodEaterreal and usefl both suddenly drop to empty
12:49:19GodEaterand then the pcmbuf rapidly empties too
12:49:21GodEaterand then you get the skip
12:49:38GodEaterreal and usefl seem to be taking along time to fill too
12:51:58GodEatershould they both be full (or nearly) ideally ?
12:53:16*GodEater compares his gigabeats buffering thread screen
12:53:26GodEateripod has a track count of only 1
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12:53:42GodEatergigabeat has 5
12:53:56GodEaterand real and usefl are both full
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12:54:14GodEateripod's real and usefl and both very nearly empty
12:54:44GodEaterdata_rem is o on ipod
12:55:14GodEaterhandle count is 6 on ipod
12:55:17GodEaterand 15 on gigabeat
12:55:17Nico_Prally? with only one track?
12:55:39GodEaterwhy is the track count only 1 too /
12:56:08Nico_Pthat could be the playback thread not giving the buffering code tracks to buffer fast enough...
12:56:30*GodEater starts a new playlist
12:56:31Nico_Pwhat I don't understand is that data_rem = 0 would indicate buffering is finished for the track
12:56:37GodEatertrackcount is 11 now
12:56:39GodEaterand handle count is 33
12:56:45Nico_Psounds better
12:56:47GodEaterreal and usefl are both now filling up
12:56:53Nico_Pno skips?
12:57:20Nico_Pideally, real should end up being full and usefl slightly less and decreasing
12:57:31GodEaterwell initial playback didn't do that at all
12:57:38GodEaterthey were both hovering very near the bottom
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12:57:51Nico_Phow long was the track you started with?
12:58:00GodEater5 minutes ?
12:58:10GodEaterI don't understand why it was only one track though
12:58:24Nico_Poh so no way it could have been fully buffered with real being almost empty
12:58:49GodEaterwhat does touching the controls in the buffering debug screen do ?
12:59:01Nico_Pit can skip tracks
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12:59:13Nico_Pdon't know what the assignments are on the ipod though
12:59:26GodEaterI think you *really* need to see an ipod video
12:59:32GodEaterit's doing weird weird things
13:00:07Nico_Pa logf dump with logf enabled for playback.c and buffering.c could help in the mean time though
13:01:19Nico_Pwith logfqueues enabled too (in playback.c they're currently sim only)
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13:04:37Nico_PGodEater: also, did the track have album art?
13:05:33GodEaterit does - but it hasn't loaded in the WPS
13:06:25Nico_Pdoes the WPS have AA tags?
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13:10:10GodEaterit's cabbiev2
13:10:32Nico_Pthen there was an attempt to load the bitmap, which probably made matters worse
13:12:10GodEaterneed food
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13:24:30Nico_PGodEater: for when you come back: maybe try with a non AA build (in the config-*.h file, comment out the #define HAVE_ALBUMART)
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13:52:03RhinoBafternoon folks ... any devs around here want to confirm a possible bug in rb?
13:54:08peturjust ask the question. Did you check the tracker, btw?
13:54:29RhinoBI couldn't see anything and I checked the latest source and it doesn't have the fix
13:55:21RhinoBin apps/tagcache.c - check_if_empty ... *tag[length] should be (*tag)[length]
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13:55:59GodEaterNico_P: I still get drop outs even after the bmp has successfully loaded
13:56:09GodEaterso I don't think that's anything to do with the problem
13:56:45GodEaterI'm in the middle of a resumed playlist at the moment
13:56:53GodEaterand the real and usefl are both really low
13:56:56GodEaterand not gaining
13:58:00Nico_PRhinoB: are you sure? the current version does seem tp make sense
13:58:19GodEaterif I start a new playlist (i.e. a new folder) from scratch, then I get rubbish audio for about 30 seconds
13:58:26GodEaterbut then those buffers both start filling up properly
13:58:34GodEaterif a little slowly
13:59:20GodEaterRhinoB: how is that a bug ?
14:00:09Nico_PRhinoB: actually after looking at the code I think you're right... what are the visible effects?
14:00:19RhinoBwith that fix I no longer get crashes when trying to read MP3s with large tags
14:00:33RhinoBtag is a pointer to a pointer
14:00:55RhinoBwith an array reference it's looking at the pointer at array element 'length'
14:00:59GodEaterthat'll make a lot of forum posts go away :)
14:01:08Nico_PRhinoB: good catch :)
14:01:25Nico_PI'll let someone else do the commit, I have to go
14:01:37GodEaterthere's no-one else around who can is there ?
14:01:48Nico_Pthere's no FS entry?
14:02:17peturRhinoB: make a patch and add it to the tracker
14:02:17RhinoBnow I just need to get RB to handle MP3s with large tags properly so it can index my files :D
14:02:19GodEaterof for the database hanging ?
14:02:50Nico_Ppetur: is that really necessary?
14:02:59GodEaterFS 7032 ?
14:03:22peturNico_P: if nobody has time right now?
14:03:26Nico_Pah yes
14:03:45*Nico_P takes off
14:03:59RhinoBdon't you think it'll get lost and a "serious" bug like that should get committed sharpish?
14:04:15GodEaterRhinoB: it won't get lost
14:05:05peturbetter check that code for more of those...
14:05:16RhinoBif I get time tonight I will try and do it ... never done a patch in RB before so it'll be a learning curve
14:05:35peturthe mistake is made twice in that function
14:05:46GodEatersvn diff > your_patch_file
14:06:36RhinoBas I said I'll give it a try tonight
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14:28:09|Zumax|hello everyone, i have a problem: when i am using rockbox utility to install the rockbox on my sansa e 270 i cannot use the Complete installation or smart installation i can also not install the bootloader via using this tool, but i can install rockbox, themes, fonts. when i use sansa patcher, i can install the bootloader, but wenn i reboot my sansa it says, the rockbox fiel not found, did somebody have an idea?
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14:33:12GodEater$.099 F40
14:34:02*petur puts it on his watchlist
14:35:17GodEater.99 even
14:35:21GodEateryou got the idea though ;)
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14:36:52markunlinuxstb: good afternoon
14:37:12markunI noticed 2 Gigabeat F40's for in 1 sale in the UK:
14:37:25GodEatermarkun: I saw that too :)
14:37:30markunI would be interested in 1 of them if someone in the UK wants to buy them
14:37:32GodEatera colleague is watching it intently
14:37:44markunGodEater: does he want to sell 1 of them to me?
14:37:51GodEaterpossibly - I can ask
14:38:00GodEaterhe's borrowing my F40 currently to see if he gets on with it ok
14:38:15markunWhich player do you use now?
14:38:49GodEateron a daily basisi ?
14:38:51GodEaterthe F40
14:38:58GodEaterhe's only borrowing it at his desk :)
14:39:05markuncan you ask him now?
14:39:10GodEaterI just did
14:39:12GodEaterhe said yes
14:39:20GodEaterhe's also bidding on an F60 he's found
14:39:24GodEaterwhich he'd prefer
14:39:29markunyes, of course
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14:40:02GodEaterhe's watching those two others as a backup plan
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14:43:57preglowlinuxstb: oi, there?
14:47:36 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:49:02linuxstbpreglow: Just about...
14:50:20preglowlinuxstb: you know how to extract retailos from an ipod firmware image? didn't you do a tool for that?
14:50:31preglowand all those other images as well, i suppose
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14:52:45DerPapsthi all :-)
14:53:40linuxstbpreglow: ipod_fw should do that IIRC, or ipodpatcher if the firmware image is on an ipod...
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14:55:49preglowwhat about extracting disk mode/etc apps?
14:56:16DerPapstipodpatcher can extract and decrypt the aupd image iirc
14:57:07DerPapstthen you can use dd to seperate it into diskmode, diagmode and the bootloader
14:57:33linuxstbpreglow: There's a tool for that on the IpodFlash wiki page
14:57:36DerPapstweren't the offests for that or a ool posted on the rockbox wiki?
14:58:29linuxstbThe aupd image isn't the same as what is actually in the flash - the aupd image is a self-contained firmware in its own right, and contains the flash contents as part of the image.
14:58:43linuxstbi.e it contains the flashing code.
14:59:13DerPapstah. thanks for clarification.
14:59:35preglowhmm, the firmware file has three parts, was the last the nike thing?
14:59:54preglowthis being a nano
14:59:58linuxstbYes, it's data (WAV files etc) used by the Nike thing.
14:59:58DerPapstit's the resource image
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15:00:15DerPapstfor this nike+ipod application
15:00:16linuxstbIIRC it's a FAT image.
15:00:35preglowthey all start with !ATA
15:00:38 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
15:01:34preglowpart one says !ATAsoso which i guess is the os, part two says crsr, which sounds like resource to me, part three says dpua
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15:01:50*GodEater reminds preglow of byteordering ;)
15:01:51DerPapstyeah. you have to read them beackwards
15:01:55GodEaterOSOS, RSRC, AUPD
15:01:57preglowyeah, know
15:01:59DerPapstosos is the firmare
15:02:31preglowaupd is the flash updater, i guess
15:02:34*GodEater wonders what preglow is planning to do with them
15:02:51preglowi want to disassemble the bl and retailos to find out what they do to the pcf
15:02:59linuxstbI thought you did that before, when getting the alarm working?
15:02:59 Join MethoS- [0] (
15:03:34DerPapstrsrc is the resource thingy. nike+ipod for nanos and some kind of drivers for the boradcom chip (iirc) on ipod videos.
15:03:37preglowindeed, and then i went ahead and erased my whole home directory
15:03:49preglowlike a fool, i might add
15:04:01linuxstbYes, on the ipod videos, the RSRC is the firmware that runs on the broadcom chip.
15:04:01preglowlinuxstb: but at least now i know what to look for
15:04:24 Quit conando (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:04:35linuxstb(there's also a broadcom firmware image in flash, which presumably the bootloader uploads to the broadcom).
15:06:02preglowdoesn't seem like any of them are fat images, though, at least i can't mount them
15:06:44linuxstbYou'll need to strip any headers...
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15:08:26DerPapstat least the rsrc one on nanos should be one. not sure about the ipod video one.
15:11:36preglowbut ok, what's the format of the headers on these things? i want retailos
15:11:46linuxstbHow did you extract them?
15:12:02preglowunzipped what i got from apple, then ipod_fw
15:12:04linuxstbI think ipod_fw puts a 512-byte header on the files.
15:12:14preglowlet's see
15:12:54preglowthat might be it, looks like interrupt vectors
15:14:07preglowcurse me and my complete inability to remember command line flags
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15:17:23preglowyeah, those are interrupt vectors
15:17:36preglowfollowed by what certainly is gibberish
15:18:00preglowi love that about arm, whenever you see instructions with tons of weird-ass conditional codes, you're almost certainly looking at garbage
15:18:40preglowlooks like the bootloader passes parameters to retailos
15:18:47linuxstbYes, it does.
15:18:55preglowanything fancy?
15:19:03linuxstbloader2 handles it - so see its source code
15:19:14preglowi'd bloody love it if it passed alarm status, for example...
15:19:30linuxstbI can't recall...
15:21:26linuxstbSee ipodhw.c in the loader2 source - the sysinfo_t struct. Looking at it now, it doesn't seem to contain anything interesting...
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15:22:32preglowwe don't bother with this at all, do we?
15:22:56preglowand yet we boot retailos nice enough
15:23:00linuxstbNo, but we probably should... We're probably just being lucky with our bootloader...
15:23:08linuxstb(as in, it's not overwriting that part of IRAM)
15:23:25LloreanAlright guys, anyone have any idea what's wrong with the current e200 build zip? 7zip is giving me "unsupported compression method" on a lot of the files in it.
15:23:25preglowretailos preserves r0 as well
15:23:40preglowso there might be something fun there a swell
15:24:00linuxstbLlorean: It could be worth making a note of which buildserver built it...
15:24:12preglowlinuxstb: seems to preserve r0, r2 and r3, as a amtter of fact
15:27:06GodEaterwho the hell owns that ?
15:27:27LloreanOne of the new ones? I don't recognize it, but I don't look often.
15:27:42GodEaterwe ought to maintain a list of who the admin is for each server
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15:36:49preglowi wonder what resetting the DEV_SYSTEM bit does...
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15:55:30kkurbjunmarkun, I was looking at the gigabeat clocking some more and it looks like we should just be able to set a bit in the CAMDIVN register to enter a lower power mode by running the clock at 100 MHz - from the DC characteristics it seems that the SOC lowers the core voltage
15:55:40kkurbjunwhen the DVS bit is set
15:56:46kkurbjunI don't think that just modifying the PLL frequencies will save too much power - the consumption is about linear unless you are changing the core voltage, and witht he gigabeat when it's idle the core clock is cut anyway
15:57:41kkurbjunI'm planning on messing around with it some more eventually, but if you have some other feedback I would be interested
15:58:42markunkkurbjun: I have to leave now, but nice that you are giving it a try again
15:58:53kkurbjunThe DVS bit at the very least sets the core to run at ~100 MHz by putting the CPU on the same bus as the periphrials
15:59:09markunI already get quite a nice runtime with my 1000mAh battery, but more is welcome :)
15:59:21kkurbjunnot same bus, sorry, same clock :)
15:59:46 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
15:59:47markunwill you be able to do some measurements?
15:59:57kkurbjunI have a full hardware debugging setup now with gdb, which makes writing code for the gigabeat much more rewarding
16:00:11kkurbjunsince I can set on hardware breakpoints
16:00:21markunand a multimeter connected to the power supply / battery?
16:00:23kkurbjunI need to get setup with a method to measure the current
16:00:39kkurbjunthe guess and look for runtime differences is not very academic
16:01:02markunnot, not really
16:01:11markunand would take way too long
16:01:21markununless you put in a smaller battery :)
16:01:44markunanyway, I have to go now. Will be back in an hour or so.
16:01:52XavierGrthe only annoying thing left in the Gigabeat F is the remaining OF
16:01:57kkurbjunalright, i'll be at work
16:02:08kkurbjunXavierGr, I'm looking at that again
16:02:21XavierGrare you? just great :)
16:03:03markunkkurbjun: btw, there is one more bug which would be nice to look at:
16:03:05kkurbjunlike I said the hardware debugging with GDB makes it much nicer - before I had openocd's console which let me recover the flash, but now I can upload new code without ever touching usb or disconnecing anything
16:03:11kkurbjunthe bootloader usb mode
16:03:22kkurbjunmy JTAG gigabeat shows that problem
16:03:31kkurbjunso I plan on looking at that as well
16:03:55markunafter booting into rockbox the Gigabeat uses a lot of power, after playing audio it gets lowered, and after stopping it's even lower
16:04:03 Quit Rob222241 ()
16:04:16kkurbjuneigma, helped me out a good deal on the GDB setup.. , oh gotcha, I can check that out too eventually
16:04:19markunsomehow something doesn't get initialised correctly which gets fixed by playing audio
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16:05:04kkurbjunI'll try and figure out a way to capture that change sometime
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16:05:48peturmarkun: so we need to create a startup sound? ;)
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16:35:01Nico_Pkkurbjun: have you made any progress twoards rolo and/or sleeping?
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17:15:45C30`Palanoidhi guys
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17:22:26C30`Palanoidany 4th gen ipod users here?
17:23:12markunnot me, sorry
17:24:04linuxstbC30`Palanoid: Best to just ask your question...
17:25:23C30`Palanoidactually i wanna help testing an unofficial build that saves power,developed by buschel and someone else,but im not sure where to start
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17:25:32Casainhohello Rockbox people :-)
17:25:49C30`Palanoidhi there
17:25:58CasainhoI would like to know a good number of buttons for an hardware audio player... can anyone suggest?
17:26:14LambdaCalculus37C30`Palanoid: Start here:
17:26:53C30`Palanoidthanks lamb
17:27:11n1sCasainho: IMHO 8 or more is needed to make rockbox somewhat comfortable
17:27:35Casainhon1s: and, can you say the functions of this 8 buttons?
17:27:47CasainhoI need to know it's functions...
17:28:06linuxstb4 direction buttons (up/down/left/right), select, menu, play/pause and stop
17:28:12n1sup/down/left/right, select, menu, play, stop
17:28:27n1swhat he ^ said ;)
17:28:47LambdaCalculus37You can also optionally add Volume Up/Down buttons.
17:29:15CasainhoI would like to do a minimalist...
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17:29:45Casainhothat 4 buttons, would they work for audio up/down?
17:29:50linuxstbCasainho: No you don't... Targets with a small number of buttons are a pain.
17:29:52LambdaCalculus37That's why I said "optionally". ;)
17:30:49*GodEater goes to the pub
17:31:25Casainhoi am focusing in a good audio player, for me, have buttons for audio task are importante!! as can do volume up and down while player is on pocket, whitout the need to look for the display or the buttons.. just with the fell of the touch
17:31:55Casainhoso, 8 buttons?
17:32:08Casainhowith 8 buttons I will have no problems?
17:32:31markunanyone with a Gigabeat who wants to test something for me?
17:32:38linuxstbCasainho: You may want separate volume up/down buttons
17:32:44n1sCasainho: up/down is usually volume control in the wps so you should be fine
17:32:45XavierGrmarkun me
17:33:02markunXavierGr: do you want a patch or my rockbox.gigabeat?
17:33:27XavierGrrockbox.gigabeat if that's where there change is
17:33:48Casainhowell, if up/down arrows are usually volume control, i prefer 8 buttons then
17:34:10Casainhookok, anyway, that can be changed later if needwed :-)
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17:35:07markunXavierGr: one moment, some webserver problems
17:35:08Casainhothank you :-) - i will define now the schematic for that 8 buttons and assignee that functions for them :-)
17:35:27XavierGrmarkun: sure take your time
17:35:49XavierGrmarkun: you can dcc send it to me if you want
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17:39:12kugelMan, Casainho is gone
17:39:25kugeljust wanted to recommend a scroll wheel ;)
17:40:17*Llorean thinks wheels are a silly waste of both space and user energy.
17:40:38*kugel loves scroll wheels
17:40:58kugelor a scroll pad would be nice too
17:41:18*n1s loves regular tactile buttons :9
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17:41:33*n1s also can't type simelys correctly
17:41:35LloreanThey take up a ridiculous amount of physical space for very limited input options, and you have to move your finger continually to scroll. Just seems a step backward to me.
17:41:53rasherLlorean: you get accelleration though
17:41:56LloreanI mean, what do they offer other than "being stylish right now"?
17:42:22preglowanother way of navigating some people do prefer?
17:42:44kugelLlorean: Scrolling through a (long) list is much easier with a wheel
17:42:45linuxstbrasher: You get accelleration with normal buttons...
17:42:45LloreanI meant "why do people prefer them"? Like, what about them besides stylishness makes them preferable to buttons?
17:42:55preglowi think wheels are nice enough, but i tend to like buttons somewhat better for their speed of use
17:43:08Lloreankugel: This is not true. Both a wheel and buttons can have both fine and fast scrolling.
17:43:09kugelit's much precise too
17:43:23preglowLlorean: acceleration works better with wheels, there's no way around that
17:43:34preglowit's much faster while still being managable
17:43:42Lloreanpreglow: Don't know if I'd agree with that. Paged scrolling with buttons still works better for me.
17:43:48LloreanYou need a "modifier" button, but that's still minimal.
17:43:54preglowquite simply because they're more analogue than buttons
17:44:12preglowminimal? it requires an additional hand
17:44:15preglowhardly what i'd call minimal
17:44:36LloreanRequires an additional finger.
17:45:10preglowsometimes, perhaps
17:45:11rasherlinuxstb: you don't get "direct" acelleration though.. just "magic"
17:45:22LloreanI'll give you that a wheel might offer more control over fine grained acceleration rate, but I won't give you that it's "better"
17:45:25preglowwouldn't work very nicely on my h120
17:45:41preglow"more control" isn't "better", somehow?
17:45:43LloreanWe're not talking about a specific player though, but in terms of creating a hypothetical ideal.
17:45:53Lloreanpreglow: More control over fine grained.
17:46:12kugelLlorean: In most cases you are using a player with only 1 thumb. I doubt it's easy to navigate with the thumb while holding another button with a finger of the same hand
17:46:15LloreanI'd rather simply hold down a finger and quickly scroll through a very long list than have to continually move my finger at a set minimum speed to get the same rate of motion
17:46:28kugelsince all the other fingers are usually needed to hold the player
17:46:34preglowreally, for that to work with a single hand, they'd have to put buttons on the back of the device, the way i hold it
17:46:40Lloreankugel: yes, and if buttons are on the side or in locations those fingers are near....
17:47:11preglowon the side would not work for me unless the player is small
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17:47:49preglowguess i've got somewhere around middle-sized fingers
17:47:51LloreanYou could also make the modifier near enough that both can be done with one finger.
17:47:55LloreanLike menu and select on an ipod
17:47:58kugelLlorean: which would probably mean the player is disigned for right/left handed only
17:48:14Lloreankugel: Nearly all players are designed with a marked preference for righties.
17:48:31LloreanI challenge you to name how many Rockboxable players, for example, are symmetrical.
17:48:40preglowipods :)
17:48:42kugelI don't think Casainho aims for repeating this failure
17:48:50preglowthe wheel works great with the left hand as well
17:48:50Lloreanpreglow: Exactly. :)
17:48:56preglowanother positive aspect of it
17:49:05LloreanUp/down buttons aren't exactly hand-centric.
17:49:09LloreanLambdaCalculus37: Wrong
17:49:15LloreanPower button and Record button.
17:49:23LloreanIt really is just the iPod afaik.
17:49:35preglowreally, now, i prefer buttons, but i can see why some would like the wheel better
17:49:40pixelmaLlorean: just curious - how do you operate your c200?
17:49:43LloreanBut my point was just that "wheels are better" is very much a matter of opinion.
17:49:57LloreanI'm not saying wheels are bad, just honestly wanted to know why besides "style" they prefer them.
17:50:05preglowLlorean: if that's your point i agree :)
17:50:10kugelLlorean: ease of use
17:50:11preglowi should stop jumping in in the middle of discussions
17:50:43Lloreankugel: "ease of use" is not an objective term. I was looking for objective specifics. I find buttons MUCH easier, because I have long lists and don't like to spend hours circling my thumb on a wheel far too small to be comfortable.
17:50:46kugelI think wheels are easy to use, intuitive (in most contexts), effective
17:50:49XavierGrscroll wheels are indeed better at accelerating, though this is their only advantage
17:51:02XavierGrtactile buttons are better because they offer more for their size
17:51:03LloreanWheels very much favor hands near the right size for them.
17:51:10preglowLlorean: tried it on an ipod? list scrolling is really sweet here
17:51:14pregloweven with huge lists
17:51:20Lloreanpreglow: I've got a Nano, yes.
17:51:28kugelLlorean: Hours of circling? Not with acceleration, you can scroll the whole list within 10ms
17:51:32LloreanBut it's the "keep your hand moving over X-hundred entries"
17:51:48XavierGrpreglow: I found that a scroll wheel can be quite tricky to get it on a certain file I want to choose
17:52:01Lloreankugel: Hours meaning "if I'm operating my device over a long period"
17:52:05preglowyup, they are, but the speed in getting to the area of the file you want makes up for it
17:52:27Lloreanpreglow: See, paged scrolling on the H120 worked great for me for that. My index finger on my left hand rests on it when holding my DAP anyway.
17:52:28preglowi'd rather use a quick and inaccurate process that's interactive than a slow and accurate one that isn't
17:52:34preglowkeeping a button pressed isn't much fun in the long run...
17:52:48kugelAnd how long would you need to press a button to scroll through a long list? Even with page scroll and a modifier button this takes a bigger amount of time
17:52:55Lloreankugel: No, it doesn't.
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17:53:35LloreanHave you tried paged scrolling on an H120, kugel, to know what you're talking about?
17:53:42XavierGrpreglow: moving your finger fast isn't fun in the long run too
17:53:44kugelWell, I tend to love the scroll wheel of my e200 with scroll acceleration
17:53:47XavierGryou waste far less energy by holding a button than moving your finger in circles
17:53:58preglowXavierGr: sure no, but i never do it so long that i even think about it, actually
17:54:02pregloweven for long lists
17:54:12preglowbut that's me
17:54:36XavierGryeah of course different tastes for different usage patters
17:54:38LloreanBut anyway, nonphysical wheels (like the iPod ones) don't provide good feedback for blind users. Physically scrolling ones, like the Sansa, are a bit "huge" =/
17:54:47LloreanFor a custom player, I'd really stick to buttons.
17:54:47kugelXavierGr: Is it really about the energy one needs to scroll through lists?
17:55:04XavierGrbut as Llorean said: too much wasted space. That's why ipods have a problem with keymaps
17:55:07preglowLlorean: yeah, i'm still annoyed we don't have piezo clicking like retailos does, that makes the whole tactile thing better
17:55:18Lloreankugel: Ergonomics. Fitting the thumb at an angle that it can make comfortable loops, etc.
17:55:19XavierGrkugel: it's about all aspects of it
17:55:35kugelXavierGr: e200 doesn't have problems
17:55:45XavierGrkugel: as I said scroll wheels are good for acceleration, bad for picking a certain file and bad for their size
17:56:02Lloreankugel: As I said, a wheel depends on specific hand size. And the e200 has two extra buttons, and most people seem to think the four buttons around the wheel are bad anyway, hard to touch with big fingers.
17:56:07kugelbad for picking a certain file? I can't agree to that
17:56:12LloreanThe e200 sacrificed a lot to have that wheel.
17:56:19LambdaCalculus37I do find the scroll wheels on iPods annoying for the reasons XavierGr just mentioned.
17:56:57kugelwell, nice discussion though. I'm off now
17:56:58XavierGrkugel: might be that I am not used to it, but I had troubles picking the correct file, because as soon as I was near it, I had to be very carefull with my finger movement to not pass it
17:57:13kugelXavierGr: I didn't have problems, ever
17:57:21LloreanXavierGr: The e200 has a mechanical wheel. It stops on entries, kinda on its own.
17:57:28XavierGrah that must be it then
17:57:32kugelcan be the reason, yea
17:57:40LloreanBut it's still possible to make it skip entries, it's not as precise as kugel makes it sound.
17:57:47 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox]")
17:57:49LambdaCalculus37kugel: Bye!
17:58:12XavierGrdoesn't the scrollwheel need more power to operate too?
17:58:18XavierGr(comparing to buttons)
18:02:35n1sI've used both a 1g and 3g nano a lot over the last week and while I had no problem selecting songs or accelerating I still prefer regular buttons but can't say that one is better than the other
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18:12:08pixelmaLlorean: still curious, do you use your c200 "flipped"?
18:13:18Lloreanpixelma: Oh, sorry. Missed your question earlier.
18:13:44LloreanI often pick up the c200 with the LCD facing my palm if I'm just adjusting volume
18:13:53LloreanBut other than that, I don't do anything out of the ordinary
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18:16:44pixelmaLlorean: ah thanks, I thought that display flip would be a good option for left-handed people especially there... that reminds me... ;)
18:18:15LloreanI know. Believe it or not, I'm not home yet. :)
18:18:47LloreanBut I haven't forget.
18:19:00pixelmano worries :)
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18:34:49markunI changed the gigabeat backlight brightness setting to a logarithmic scale (it now looks linear to the eye). Is anyone very much against this?
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18:36:48LloreanI'm not against it.
18:37:05pixelmawhat's up with the red, looks so unrelated...?
18:37:41markunpixelma: weird
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18:39:42markunLlorean: I made it use 12 brightness levels and called them 1 to 12
18:39:49LloreanMakes sense to me.
18:40:35markundimming still uses the orinal steps, maybe it looks better if it's logarithmic too
18:41:25LloreanWas the Gigabeat the target that doesn't have adjustable dimming/fade yet?
18:41:53markunso I guess I shouldn't worry too much about the dimming until it gets fixed for real
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18:43:10LloreanYeah, I'd rather see some options for the user. ;)
18:43:19markunLlorean: do you want to try my patch/build?
18:43:49markunI would like to commit it, but am afraid one of the old-timers might get pissed off :)
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18:45:11LloreanI can't really test right now. What about it might piss people off?
18:46:33markunno idea. I'll just commit and wait for the complaints :)
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18:47:40markunI'm not sure if the table should be 'const' or 'static' or both.
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18:50:45Buschelwow, with enabled WPS and not fully loaded battery my 5G ran for 12:52h now :o)
18:51:30LloreanHow much does this iPod run under the OF?
18:51:49Buschelcannot test as i use mpc −− it's a 5G 30GB
18:52:40LloreanWhat are those supposed to get in the OF according to Apple, then?
18:54:06bertrikmarkun: I don't know which table you're talking about, but in general it's a good idea to limit the scope of data and functions. So if the table is declared within the scope of a file, making it static would be good I think.
18:55:54markunbertrik: just static is ok? or do I need to mark is const as well?
18:55:56bertrikmaking the table const could save some ram, but can only be don't if its contents are never modified
18:56:05markunyes, it's never modified
18:56:09n1sconst != static
18:56:42n1siow it should be static const
18:57:48markunok, it will be in the next commit
18:58:25markunwhat be the difference between a static and a non-static table?
18:58:48n1sstatic is only visible inside the same file
18:58:50bertriknon-static is global
18:59:44bertrikbut generally, the meaning of static in C depends on the scope (file, function, etc.)
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19:00:10n1smarkun: btw there's some red in the gigabeat bootloader
19:03:17markunok, fixed
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19:25:25jhMikeSDoes anyone have the small H10 that could check out ? Seems big H10 has pullups on SCL/SDA for FM but that needs verification for small H10 to be on the safe side.
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19:40:49amiconnjhMikeS: Iirc a major part of the problem to get the H10 radio up and running was that the H10 has no SCL pullup
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19:41:02amiconnThe SDA pullup is there, and the svn driver already exploits that fact
19:41:20jhMikeSamiconn: odd, since it works on mine
19:42:28amiconnI'm not sure whether a small or big H10 was used for that, but even if only a fraction of H10s doesn't have the SCL pullup the driver needs to work like it does
19:44:09jhMikeSyou really think they'd vary on that minor detail? is there a record of who was in need of SCL pullup as output?
19:44:31amiconnShould be in the irc logs somewhere
19:44:58amiconnThere are many examples of where target hardware varies between revisions
19:49:10jhMikeSthat question is why it's not committed but it seems like a very strange thing to revise at that. I suppose if retailos always drives SCL as output then that's an indicator. No big deal to just stick with it as is.
19:50:37*amiconn has seen even more strange things
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19:55:36jhMikeSI'll just toss is a few extra delays and that takes care of it here
19:59:15jhMikeSseems to need trailing delays in the in/out loops
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20:00:57amiconnClock stretching is a standard i2c feature
20:01:10amiconnUsing fixed delays would be rather dirty...
20:01:19amiconnI can't see why the current driver should be
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20:01:25amiconna problem
20:02:14jhMikeSI don't think it's that. I'm tracking the precise placement.
20:03:08*amiconn wonders what problem jhMikeS is trying to solve...
20:03:43pixelmathere were several reports (in the tracker too) about the radio not working (properly) on the 20GB H10s
20:03:45jhMikeSThe radio doesn't work at 80MHz on big H10.
20:03:46bertrikis there actually an i2c device on the bus that does clock stretching?
20:04:05jhMikeSsome extra DELAY; placement fixes it entirely
20:04:23amiconnbertrik: The TEA5767 definitely does clock stretching
20:04:31jhMikeSI think some transitions happen too quickly
20:04:53amiconnLinusN tested it (on H1x0 iirc; same radio chip) using a logic analyser
20:05:05preglowBuschel: hi, tried your pcf stuff for nano
20:05:15Buschelpreglow: any results?
20:05:34preglowsome different voltages, otherwise most are the same
20:05:41preglowonly one i could disable was dcdc2
20:06:18amiconnAnd the 'bus' only consists of 2 devices. Seems like the iriver engineers didn't know i2c is a bus; they usually put each device on its own bus... (applies at least to H1x0, H300 and H10)
20:06:20Buschelthat's the alternative voltage for dcdc −− it can be switched between dcdc1 and 2
20:06:21preglowbut i guess disabling ports with nothing connected anyway doesn't save too much power
20:06:44Buschelyou could not match to DAC or LCD?
20:07:42BuschelDCDC1 seems to be CPU. it can be lowered to 1.125V (tested at least for 10min, will run an obernight test)
20:07:56amiconnjhMikeS: It may be that the (more or less generic) bit banging i2c code still misses a few delays; I *think* restarts aren't handled properly
20:08:24amiconnI will probably take another look into this. PCF is also bit banged in H300 and iaudios
20:08:39Buschelpreglow: D1REGC is WM-codec, D3REGC seems to be LCD. I am not sure what DCUDC1 is... can be lowered to 1.5V though
20:09:12Buschelok, promised my wife to finish for a while −− will be back later :)
20:09:57amiconnThe problem with these voltage changes is that they aren't committable unless someone finds a datasheet and verifies those voltages are within specs
20:10:45amiconnIf we're not in specs, there will be for sure a small fraction of devices which won't work with the modified voltages
20:10:51preglow1.125 does not work here
20:10:59preglowi'm not a big fan of voltage changes myself
20:11:17preglowif we find that the bootloader sets it too high compared to the datasheet, then sure
20:11:20jhMikeSit seems like SDA gets switched before it can latch the bit in fmradio_i2c_outb
20:11:23preglowi don't think we should lower it any more
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20:11:49preglowsooner or later we'll have hard-to-find bugs reported by people with hardware that can't really take as much
20:12:18amiconnOf course, another verification would be if we find that the OF changes voltages too
20:12:29bertrikamiconn: ok, thanks for the clarification on the tea5767 i2c
20:12:31amiconn(and the values)
20:13:49*amiconn wonders how far LinusN got with his apple OF disassembly work
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20:28:31preglowi had disassembled retailos a bit today
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20:28:45preglowi found some routines that communicate with the pcf in both retailos and bl
20:28:55preglowbut i couldn't really find too much use of them in retailos
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20:39:07Nico_Ppreglow: which target is that for?
20:39:09jhMikeSamiconn: do you think it's possible to use the LCD bridge batch mode on H10? I tried it but it hangs waiting for LCD2_BLOCK_TXOK. Was a quick check so it could be anything.
20:39:55amiconnI'm using block mode on my H10 for months
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20:40:11amiconnI just didn't come around researching the various configuration bits
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20:41:00Nico_Pamiconn: I was wondering... do you still have LinusN's ipod video?
20:41:01jhMikeSany settings that have to differ from ipod? it's also the number of bytes to be sent, correct?
20:41:30amiconnThe speed needs to be adjusted for the controller
20:41:49fmlHello. Is it Ok that talk_init is called twice for non SW targets? Once in main.c and later in audio_init() in playback.c.
20:41:53preglowNico_P: nano
20:41:59amiconnNico_P: Yes, but I don't use it normally, as it's not mine. I only use it for testing
20:42:46Nico_Pamiconn: and do you do much testing? I figured maybe if you don't you could maybe send it to me so I can debug those playback issues myself insteafd of having to "use" GodEater
20:42:59jhMikeSamiconn: Even a non-batch asm YUV blit brings pretty decent gains. No formal FPS check yet but an NTSC rate video that would drop hundreds of frames has about 6-7 fps to spare.
20:43:19Nico_Pamiconn: there's that and the fact that I have no rockboxable target ATM
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20:54:38*jhMikeS finds he has a good deal of distaste for getting libs together to send junk over a USB cable but will persist through that in order to be able to do something interesting on the S. (if noone else picks it up...hint, hint :p)
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20:55:00Nico_Phehe nice hint
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20:56:15preglows? sansa?
20:56:30preglowhow's that port going anyway?
20:57:08Nico_Pit needs jhMikeS' talent!
20:57:10jhMikeSnot well for me since nothing works quite right working from windows and the loader tools doesn't run there yet.
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20:57:44*jhMikeS isn't in a position to do any sort of OS monkeying around on his box either
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20:58:07Nico_Peven with a liveCd or a flash pen?
20:58:48jhMikeSno idea really. I'm not well acquainted with linux at all.
21:00:15jhMikeSeverything with me is "I don't bother until I have a compelling reason" but then this thing should ultimately work in windoes...just gotta get the intertia
21:01:15*preglow hates messing around with oses...
21:01:29Nico_Pyeah we're going to need it at some point so it might as well be done early
21:01:51jhMikeSNico_P: any live CD you recommend?
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21:03:14Nico_Pmaybe knoppix... got a ton of useful things on it
21:03:27*jhMikeS sees a gigantic list on "The LiveCD list"
21:03:28Nico_Pdoy ou have a flash drive you can use?
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21:04:01Nico_Phaha so I can stop searching for live CDs that can use one to save data :)
21:04:19Nico_Pknoppix is on of the best Live CDs no soubt
21:05:30woodensoulI've been getting an new bug lately and wanted to see if you guys were getting the same thing. A track in the playlist will get repeated even though repeat is OFF and the track title displayed is then wrong. I'm guessing it's the track at the end of the buffer, but not sure on that one.
21:06:23Nico_Pwoodensoul: it's been reported by some people but I confess I haven't looked into it
21:06:45jhMikeSThanks. I'd at least like to get something loading there and check out what's going on.
21:07:07woodensoulNico_P: is there already a bug report?
21:07:33Nico_Pwoodensoul: I think so... let me look
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21:09:07pixelmaI had that too the one repeated track "replaced" the one that was supposed to play (it was right in the playlist). Unfortunately I haven't been able to reproduce
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21:10:22Nico_Pwoodensoul: actually I think I got confused with another bug
21:10:59Nico_Pfeel free to open one, but if it's your first read the guidelines and please be as specific as possible :)
21:11:56*Nico_P wonders if becoming the playback guy was such a good idea
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21:52:45austrian_coderHello? Anybody here who can help with a (quite simple) coding problem?
21:54:10austrian_coderI wrote a little plugin that displays the unsynced, embedded lyrics from a mp3 file
21:55:10austrian_coderBut I can't test it because it does not show up in the "plugins" dialog in the simulator, although I added it in the SOURCES and the CATEGORIES file
21:55:53peturfor the correct target(s) I assume
21:56:46austrian_coderIn the SOURCES I added in under "/* plugins common to all models */"
21:57:38austrian_coderand in CATEGORIES as "lyric_viewer,demos
21:58:35austrian_coderthe file is called "lyric_viewer.c" and placed in apps/plugins/...
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22:00:48peturdoes the endresult look like lyric_viewer.demos ?
22:01:59woodensoulNico_P: I filed a bug report regarding the playback problem. FS #8513
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22:02:47Nico_Pwoodensoul: thanks :)
22:03:01Nico_Pwoodensoul: have you tried it on the sim?
22:03:29woodensoulbut it has occurred on several targets for me
22:03:39austrian_coder@petur: What do you mean? It looks like "lyric_viewer,demos"
22:03:47Nico_PI'll try it on a sim (don't have any targets ATM)
22:04:51Nico_Paustrian_coder: do you see the source file get compiled?
22:05:04Nico_P(nice to see you around btw :) )
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22:07:02peturanybody know the real name of RhinoB? I'd like to commit his bugfix
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22:10:25austrian_coder@ Nico_P: 1. I just realized there's already someone with that name - I'm not the "real" austrian_coder :oops:
22:10:59austrian_coder2. The .rock file gets compiled, and suddenly it shows up in the "demos" list
22:10:59Nico_Ppetur: ah, I was going to investigate it too.. I'll let you do so
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22:11:16peturI'm about to commit ;)
22:11:18Nico_Paustrian_coder: ah, so problem solved :)
22:11:27John__hi there.
22:11:40Nico_Pand it's true the austriancoder we know doesn't have an underscore in his nick
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22:12:16Nico_Pyou austrians don't seem to be very imaginative ;)
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22:12:17austrian_coderBut when i click it, it says "Cant open .. lyric_viewer.rock
22:12:30Nico_P(I know, I'm not very well placed to make that comment, but hey)
22:13:40austrian_coderand the sim says "We open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/nvram.bin' \n failed to load /.rockbox/rocks/demos/lyric_viewer.rock \n dlopen(archos/.rockbox/rocks/demos/lyric_viewer.rock): archos/.rockbox/rocks/demos/lyric_viewer.rock: undefined symbol: sim_open
22:14:14austrian_coderThe other plugins (fire.rock etc.) work
22:14:22pixelmapetur: probably the same as (typo in Nico_P's commit message if you have a look at the FS entry)
22:14:24Nico_Phave you used rb->open() in your plugin?
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22:15:04Nico_Ppixelma: looks like it, yes
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22:15:30peturpixelma: thanks!
22:16:05Nico_Ppetur: have you found any related FS entries?
22:17:02peturhave not searched ;)
22:17:31Nico_PGodEater suggested FS #7032 might be caused by it
22:19:32peturhmmm it might, yes
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22:45:50stripwaxBuschel - I would be very interested to know at what voltages the WM can be used effectively for a given volume settings..
22:46:04stripwaxTrying out patch on 5G 60GB right now .. :-D
22:46:09*stripwax big thumbs ups
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22:46:47Buschelstripwax: i will also start the next runtime test in a few minutes −− battery should be fully loaded now
22:49:06stripwaxooh. wonder if BCM power can be lowered when backlight is off (although maybe that's exactly when you need high contrast, hm, so maybe not)
22:49:07Buschelstripwax: I only found power supply is possible from 1.8-3.6V −− nothing else
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22:49:46stripwaxBuschel - for the WM? ok. I think preglow (?) had idea to test distortion of full wave sines with low voltage supply
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22:54:05SoapI think all aspects need checked - even the absurd ones. SNR, channel sep, blah blah blah.
22:54:30SoapI'll take a crack at it when I'm finished with my current work (hopefully this weekend)
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23:03:39Buschelcan't we check against other WM specs? I am just looking at some spec which compares THD/SNR/etc for 1.8V vs. 3.3V voltage
23:03:44Nico_Pcould someone test a playback patch for me?
23:04:03stripwaxBuschel - quick (stupid question) - pcf-test-01 patch includes the device_disables patch right?
23:04:13Buschelstripwax: yes
23:04:32stripwaxNico_P - which patch
23:05:00Nico_Pstripwax: one I just made... I'd like to know how track skips feel in terms of responsiveness
23:05:15stripwaxsure, bring it on. could you take a look at sliding_puzzle ? :-)
23:05:35Nico_Phehe why not
23:05:41*stripwax woohoos
23:05:45Nico_Pis DCC ok?
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23:06:38stripwaxum - never tried it to be honest. pastebin?
23:06:55stripwaxoh - one sec - flashing icon ..
23:06:57Nico_Pi've sent it by DCC, let's try :)
23:07:21Nico_Pstripwax: what target do you have to test on?
23:07:28Nico_P(btw, apply with -p1)
23:08:22stripwaxok building. what should I expect (is it a audio responsiveness thing or a visual responsiveness thing)?
23:08:49stripwaxNico_P - ipod 5g 60gb. also an H120 somewhere but I can't even find the charger for that
23:09:26Nico_Pstripwax: I'd like to know if you see a visual responsiveness change in the WPS
23:09:39Nico_Pon track skipping, possibly fast
23:10:40peturNico_P: I have had two times this week some garbage noise at start of playback. Build was 1 week old. Anything ring a bell?
23:10:41stripwaxI'll give it a quick whirl on the current build to remind myself how unresponsive it is first :)
23:10:43Nico_Pthis probably fixes FS #8320 but I'm afraid responsiveness suffers
23:10:55*stripwax check
23:10:58Nico_Ppetur: not at all :(
23:11:16 Quit JdGordon|w ("CGI:IRC")
23:11:31Nico_PI don't understand the sudden surge of playback bugs... maybe my recent bug fixes made things worse
23:11:53peturif it happens again with current svn I'll give you an FS# ;)
23:12:19 Join uwe_ [0] (
23:12:52Nico_Ppetur: do you think you could try to see if the bug is due to one of my recent changes in playback.c? (
23:14:01peturit still happens with current svn
23:14:06petur(just checked)
23:15:05peturvery reproducable if I start p[layback as soon as booting is done
23:15:29 Join axionix_ [0] (
23:15:41stripwaxwow, my ipod's just hung on the apple logo. reset doesn't. disk is spinning
23:15:53Nico_Ppetur: if the bug appeared after jan. 9 it probably isn't my fault
23:16:31peturI don't know when this started :(
23:16:54peturmy previous build was from last week and that had it already
23:17:39stripwaxany ideas? do I just have to leave it spinning and frozen until the battery is flat?
23:17:48 Join m0f0x [0] (
23:19:00stripwax(this has never happened before - but with the backlight on and the drive spinning I imagine the battery will die sometime before noon tomorrow... )
23:19:16stripwax(which is annoying as I'm on vacation from tomorrow morning)
23:21:07 Quit jcollie ("Ex-Chat")
23:21:25 Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!")
23:21:47stripwaxah. reset now works again. how odd. back to normal.
23:21:51 Quit defukt (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:22:06peturNico_P: I always get it when I resume playback while the disk is spinning. Once it spins down, no noise at playback start. I can't get it when I force a disk spin later on... can't you reproduce?
23:22:07stripwaxand it's still stuck on the apple after the reboot. oh dear.
23:23:29*stripwax pokes around - his ipod might be on the way out
23:23:53stripwaxapple os boots, thankfully. will do the usual stuff
23:24:29 Quit uwe__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:27:30 Quit micr0c0sm (Remote closed the connection)
23:27:42peturthis really sounds like the playback engine is playing program memory or uninitialized mem. I can start/stop and reproduce several times as long as the disk spins :/
23:28:48peturNico_P: look at FS #8498, it is exactly what I hear
23:28:56stripwaxcodec specific?
23:29:37peturthis was mp3, i'll try something else
23:29:48 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
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23:31:09peturhmm... doesn't happen with mpc
23:31:20 Quit axionix (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:35:14 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
23:36:10peturwav is fine too... seems to only happen with mp3? (don't have ogg/wma/... around here)
23:36:19stripwaxcbr / vbr ?
23:36:59Nico_Pstripwax: so rockbox refuses to boot?
23:37:55 Join kimi-sharamin [0] (
23:38:01stripwaxNico_P - it did indeed. but I could boot into apple ok, so copied over the build again. fingers crossed.
23:38:15 Quit karashata (Nick collision from services.)
23:38:19 Nick kimi-sharamin is now known as karashata (
23:39:01stripwaxf**!! windows won't let me unmount it now. hate hate hate .. :(
23:39:30Nico_Pthe sliding puzzle patch is looking good
23:39:53stripwaxhey, good news :)
23:40:12stripwaxany chance it might get committed ?
23:40:13Nico_PI need to look at the code, but it seems to work nicely
23:40:38stripwaxfancy taking a look at the pacbox_on_cop patch too? :-)
23:41:10Nico_Pnot sure I'm competent for that one... have you asked linuxstb
23:41:31karashatajust want to mention to whoever did the work on the SPC codec recently that there's a small bug currently that causes the codec to fail and miss a track when resuming playback on boot
23:41:54stripwaxNico_P - actually, yes. don't know if he looked at it yet, or not ..
23:42:10stripwaxNico_P - hrm. undefined instruction at 00019AA8 (0)
23:42:19karashataI put a bug report on the tracker, FS #8515
23:42:34stripwaxNico_P/Buschel ^ not sure where/what the fault is
23:42:41 Quit petur ("*plop* (sorry about the bit of smoke left behind)")
23:42:51Nico_Pstripwax: at what moment did the crash occur?
23:43:08Buschelstripwax: did you use my patch?
23:43:08Buscheland nico's?
23:43:08 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:43:17stripwaxand yes
23:43:23stripwaxjust after the Rockbox logo
23:43:47Buschelsvn works?
23:43:49Nico_Pthen it's probably not my fault unless you had resum on startup
23:43:54stripwaxI do
23:44:02Nico_Pah then it might be my fault :)
23:44:17Nico_Pbut I really doubt it
23:44:18stripwaxand reset doesn't work again.. all this resetting can't be healthy for the disk
23:46:44stripwaxBuschel - svn used to work. your prev patch used to work too. (but then I also used to be able to reset my ipod - have no idea what's up)
23:47:14Buschelstripwax: if my last change is in doubt of being the issue -> comment line #32 in power-ipod.c (pcf50605_init();).
23:47:19preglowBuschel: there is a datasheet for the chips, but none that match exactly
23:47:26preglowBuschel: but we have programmed the drivers from those datasheets
23:47:40preglowBuschel: i believ emost of the drivers state at the top what device datasheet they used
23:49:48 Quit davina (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:49:56 Join at0m|c [0] (
23:50:35Buschelpreglow: ah, ok. found it
23:53:56 Quit conando (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:56:18Nico_Pstripwax: have you played around with the smooth resize?

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