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#rockbox log for 2008-02-07

00:00:02vorwartslinuxstb: you know what i meant :) i am enough pissed at this stupid gadget to engage into terminology debates
00:00:03rasherI just think it's a useless option that should be on, unless there's some very significant cost
00:00:09pixelmadoes gather runtime data do something as long as you don't even have the database initialised?
00:00:19BigBambivorwarts: No debate - rockbox is in no way built on linux
00:00:22linuxstbvorwarts: No, I honestly don't know what you mean...
00:00:31BigBambiIt is ground up rockbox
00:00:39scorche|wvorwarts: this isnt a terminology debate.....rockbox isnt linux and we dont really make drivers
00:00:54scorche|w(for computers)
00:00:55stripwaxvorwarts - linux is quite a specifically incorrect term to use for rockbox
00:01:05BigBambiDo you think he has got it yet?
00:01:16scorche|wi think 2 more people need to speak up :)
00:01:28Bagderrockbox is not linux
00:01:31vorwartsyou make it possible for some toshiba gadgets to run off linux
00:01:34Lars_Glinuxstb: I personally think it's more of either "I forgot" or a "Not until we fully QA" problem, but I'm a bystander
00:01:39vorwartsthat's all i know
00:01:44stripwaxvorwarts - we do? that's news to us ...
00:01:50stripwaxgiven that rockbox is not linux
00:02:07pixelmayou mean that they can be used as UMS device?
00:02:15BigBambivorwarts: No rockbox devices run linux, given rockbox is not linux
00:02:21vorwartsso isn't KDE and 2 gazillion other projects
00:02:29 Join crzyboyster [0] (n=6210f0c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:02:36vorwartsthat's not my point
00:02:38 Quit ze (Connection timed out)
00:02:40Lars_Gvorwarts: I think you're very very confused about rockbox
00:02:40stripwaxwhat is your point
00:02:42Bagdercg: your server seemed to do good!
00:02:43*linuxstb remembers that the Gigabeat F ran Linux, but couldn't be used with desktop Linux..
00:02:50scorche|wvorwarts: they could "run off linux" before...the firmware just didnt read plain mp3s
00:03:01vorwartsU series. toshiba gigabeat. will t ever be addressed
00:03:03 Quit agm3nt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:03:04 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:03:07carlospany hints when we will be able to tranfare data from pc in rockbox mode
00:03:17BigBambivorwarts: If interested owners port rockbox, sure
00:03:19scorche|wvorwarts: your guess is as good as mine
00:03:21BagderJdGordon's server did less good...
00:03:24Lars_GI wonder if there has been any case of portable linuxes using the code from rockbox as a source to make a linux driver.
00:03:31BigBambivorwarts: There isn't a rockbox 'team' planning ports
00:03:39rasherBagder: I think the server names are messed up?
00:03:51BigBambicarlosp: When it is done
00:03:56scorche|wBagder: is it his OSX box?
00:04:03stripwaxvorwarts - people do their own ports. if someone out there has a U series and wants to run rockbox on it, they'll do the work.
00:04:04Bagderrasher: why? JdGordon's is using a subname in lostlogic's domain
00:04:09linuxstbcarlosp: It's the kind of thing that may happen tomorrow or may not happen for another year - it's impossible to predict when the technical breakthroughs will happen.
00:04:19cgBagder: so it seems. still need to populate ccache cache for all ports
00:04:19Bagderscorche|w: no
00:04:28vorwartsstripwax: dev docs availabe on
00:04:32 Quit p3tur ("gonne")
00:04:36Bagdercg: yeps
00:04:46markunvorwarts: your can increase the chance of rockbox on your player by starting on some of the work:
00:04:51rasherBagder: My server seems to have build an impossible amount of builds though
00:05:21crzyboysterI was just thinking. It would be useful to create a page on the wiki with converted fonts for rockbox, wouldn't it? Of course, the submitters will ask the font creators for permission before posting them.
00:05:30Lars_Gmarkun: if only DAPs could focus on a single chipset like pdas did onto arm
00:05:31markunvorwarts: I started the Gigabeat F port and it was quite a lot of work. There were many moments where we thought we couldn't do it.
00:05:34Bagderrasher: it did a lot of sh builds, so it's not a surprise it did many
00:05:35 Quit MethoS-- ("Konversation terminated!")
00:05:48markunLars_G: why?
00:06:03rasherBagder: Bootloaders too.. I was mighty confused
00:06:07crzyboysterI was just thinking. It would be useful to create a page on the wiki with converted fonts for rockbox, wouldn't it? Of course, the submitters will ask the font creators for permission before posting them.
00:06:11Lars_Gmarkun: it'd ease reverse engineering... once the basics are broken there are less stuff to fight in each player
00:06:14gevaertsI think I'll give up for today. I can't get linked transfer descriptors working
00:06:18Bagderpdas didn't "focus on a single chipset"
00:06:19BigBambicrzyboyster: We heard the first time
00:06:23markunLars_G: I think every DAP maker should decide for themselves which they think is the best hardware.
00:06:47linuxstbLars_G: I would say most DAPs are ARM...
00:06:47markunand 'best' can be many things of course.
00:06:52crzyboysterSorry, didn't show up on my IRC windows thing...
00:07:01vorwartsright now i would be happy to run this s*** through virtualbox... but not even this is working
00:07:16scorche|wcrzyboyster: how many times do we have to say to check the logs if you think something didnt go through?
00:07:28scorche|wvorwarts: as has been said before, that is offtopic..
00:07:31 Join ze [0] (
00:07:36Bagdervorwarts: you really should not buy stuff that doesn't do what you want...
00:07:49BigBambiWise words
00:07:56vorwartsBagder: it as offered :)
00:08:19Bagderthen accept the real challenge and start the rockbox port! ;-)
00:09:17*linuxstb hands vorwarts a screwdriver
00:09:24markunvorwarts: you don't need to be a programmer. Just open up your player and post pictures.
00:09:55 Quit matsl ("Leaving")
00:10:10 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:10:48rashermarkun: no word from the translator.. annoying
00:11:00vorwartswe shall see. i am usually quite perseverant, but time is not on my side (have to work like a mule). ebay may have the answer for my ordeal :) heading on to the virtualbox channel. thank you all
00:11:16crzyboysterSorry, won't happen again. What do you all think of such a wiki page?
00:11:48 Join JdGordon|w [0] (i=836b004b@gateway/web/ajax/
00:11:55markunvorwarts: good luck
00:12:27 Part vorwarts
00:13:34 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:14:00 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
00:14:29 Quit x1jmp (Remote closed the connection)
00:15:00 Quit carlosp ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:15:23Lars_Grasher: which translator
00:15:24 Quit obo ("bye")
00:15:55rasherLars_G: Someone who wanted to do an Arabic translation, and claimed to have actually finished it, but now he's gone AWOL
00:16:13 Join qweru [0] (
00:17:02Lars_GAh sorry can't help there
00:17:45roxfan a nice list
00:19:02scorche|wvery nice list..
00:19:15JdGordon|wthats ben posted in the forums i think
00:19:29crzyboysterIf something is not translated in a lang file, should you remove all the untranslated phrases?
00:19:30magenpiethe recording screen doesn't show time elapsed or size of file...what am i doing wrong?
00:19:35scorche|wworth copying to the wiki for posterity
00:20:24 Join hc1 [0] (
00:20:42BagderJdGordon|w: did you notice those weird build errors on your host?
00:21:02 Quit gevaerts ("time to sleep")
00:22:49JdGordon|whavnt looked yet
00:22:52JdGordon|wadded both?
00:23:09Bagderno, I started with the "simple" one
00:23:20Bagderie not the OS X one
00:23:43JdGordon|wodd... wtf? that box should have no problems
00:24:12JdGordon|w... unless
00:24:52Bagderit does
00:24:57Bagderls -l /bin/sh
00:24:57Bagderlrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2007-09-09 15:52 /bin/sh -> dash
00:25:10Bagderbut I have the cure
00:25:17rasherDidn't you fix that?
00:25:29rasherPeople really should stop assuming bash..
00:25:39BagderI did, but JdGordon has an older
00:25:52JdGordon|wi gtrabbed the one off lostlogic's server
00:26:01Bagdercat | sed 's/echo -e/printf/'
00:26:23 Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@
00:26:23 Quit goffa (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:26:36rasheror sed -i 's/echo -e/printf/' (assuming GNU sed)
00:27:44BagderJdGordon|w: will you fix or shall I?
00:27:52JdGordon|wcan you? im at work
00:28:07JdGordon|wah bugger i have putty open
00:28:19BagderI fixed it already
00:28:26 Join aneka [0] (n=kvirc@
00:28:30Bagderserver re-added
00:28:38Bagdernow let's get another commit!
00:28:52JdGordon|wforce a build... i wanna see how fast it is :)
00:29:36 Quit ze (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:29:52JdGordon|ware there any scripts around to do every build to get ccache going?
00:30:13BagderI don't think so
00:32:26 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:32:38 Quit hcs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:34:41 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:34:46rasherSomeone with a clue should fix those two warnings in cfft.c
00:35:04JdGordon|wthey are gcc bugs though arnt they?
00:35:14Bagderthe fix would need to #if for compiler version or similar
00:35:39rasherConfirmed bugs, or just "we believe this code is correct"?
00:37:00Bagderit's hard to see how the compiler is right on this
00:37:53 Part idnar
00:37:54Bagderit is being typecast to the exact same type as in the proto
00:38:00linuxstbJdGordon|w: This might work -
00:38:27*JdGordon|w gets putty going again to find out
00:38:57 Join cool_walking_ [0] (
00:39:13rasherBagder: sounds odd indeed.. Maybe it should be reported then (since gcc people might actually care about this platform)
00:40:45linuxstbJdGordon|w: Redownload that script if you've already grabbed it - I've just fixed a couple of errors...
00:43:10JdGordon|wnup, still no good
00:43:58JdGordon|wconfigure not found and no permission to make directories :(
00:44:23JdGordon|woh, stupid wget
00:44:42 Join cool_walking_200 [0] (
00:45:11JdGordon|wand away it goes!
00:45:40BagderI managed to silence the warning
00:46:04Bagdernot really
00:46:13 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@
00:46:16Bagderby using *(const complex_t **) instead of (const complex_t *)
00:46:21 Quit barrywardell (Remote closed the connection)
00:46:27linuxstbOh well, "nice" and libfaad don't go together anyway...
00:47:05*linuxstb has forgotton what a green build table looks like
00:47:21*linuxstb pokes the mrobe 500 people...
00:47:26JdGordon|wpretty boring iirc :p
00:48:04linuxstbYes, a yellow stripe on the left will brighten it up.
00:48:14rasherWell, 5 of the warnings should be easy to silence
00:48:33JdGordon|wwe can hide all of them
00:49:00JdGordon|wthe thread.c one probably isnt really needed anyway
00:49:24JdGordon|wthread.c:768:6: warning: #warning core_sleep not implemented, battery life will be decreased
00:49:46rasherYes, that seems like a nice warning?
00:49:56 Part hc1
00:50:08JdGordon|wmeh, its unesaccery
00:50:11rasherThe rest seem like they'll go away on their own, ish
00:52:36 Quit cool_walking_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:55:15rasherHrm, that list on the polish forum doesn't have the Sansa e200v2s
00:55:16 Quit ender (" I spilled Spot Remover on my dog... Now he's gone.")
00:57:24scorche|wit doesnt have a lot of newer devices
00:58:01linuxstbWe should really try and maintain something similar in our wiki.
00:58:06 Join roxfan2 [0] (
00:58:20rasherAh, sounds like the guy who compiled the list has disappeared
00:58:24scorche|w[15:20] <scorche|w> worth copying to the wiki for posterity
00:58:27*scorche|w winks at linuxstb
00:59:08Bagderalmost green now...
00:59:24rasherBest of all, it'll be consistent
00:59:43 Quit ol_schoola ()
00:59:43BagderI see I need to expand my "fix"
01:00:00Bagder4.2.1 has the same warning
01:00:18JdGordon|will fix the mrobe yellow tonight if there is wifi on the slopes.. otherwsie tomrow night
01:00:18linuxstbBagder: Do you remember if there was a reason for putting (for example) #ifdef SIMULATOR inside .c files (around everything), rather than just excluding the .c file in SOURCES?
01:00:57Bagderonly for the rare circumstances where we wanted a file in all situations
01:01:11linuxstbWhen would that be?
01:01:19BagderI can't think of any right now
01:01:38linuxstbThe issue is that the Mac OS X linker (or maybe ranlib) gives warnings about empty .o files.
01:02:30 Nick cool_walking_200 is now known as cool_walking_ (
01:03:31Bagderso maybe when we fix that we learn why it was made this way! ;-P
01:04:06Bagdernothing beats doing the same mistakes twice ;-)
01:04:14JdGordon|wwait for a few green rows then add my mac to annoy people to get rid of the yellow again :p
01:04:22linuxstbHave there always been SOURCES files?
01:04:31JdGordon|wsince the dawn of time!
01:05:08Bagderthey're actually quite new
01:05:18linuxstbCould that simply be the reason?
01:05:30Bagderyes it can indeed
01:05:51Bagderit seems I created them in oct 2004
01:05:56BagderSOURCES that is
01:06:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:06:29amiconnDoes this warning-silenced code still work properly?
01:06:35Nico_PBagder: I'm making a few corrections to HISTORY... what do you think of converting it to UTF8 at the same time?
01:06:53Bagderamiconn: I _think_ so, but I have no means of testing it
01:06:57pixelmasome plugins also have #ifdef HAVE_BITMAP around them which isn't necessary anymore since SOURCES
01:07:27amiconnBagder: Uh? It applies to the sim, so you could certainly test it, I'd think
01:07:46JdGordon|wquickscreen.c is also surounded by #ifdef HAVE_QUICKSCREEN instead of it being in sources
01:07:56Bagderfirst I'd have to hunt down a file using the format...
01:08:11Bagderbut yeah, I could
01:08:13*linuxstb points Bagder to
01:08:56 Quit roxfan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:08:58 Join PaulJam_ [0] (
01:09:04 Nick roxfan2 is now known as roxfan (
01:09:23Bagderbut now I need to go to sleep instead ;-)
01:10:07Nico_PBagder: nothing against me converting HISTORY to utf8?
01:10:23rasherI suppose we'll know if aac breaks..
01:11:27JdGordon|wlinuxstb: thanks, that script worked great
01:11:29*linuxstb wonders why Monkey's audio gets a mention in HISTORY, but none of the other codecs (which all work better...)
01:11:37Bagderat least we're down to only 6 warning points now
01:11:55Bagderlinuxstb: because I only did a quick rundown to get something to commit ;-)
01:12:42Bagdergood to see 18 fine servers involved now
01:12:54Nico_Plinuxstb: I was going to add WMA at least
01:13:10Nico_PI can add others too
01:13:12*Bagder fades away
01:13:59linuxstbNico_P: I think you can remove Monkey's - we don't want to turn it into a copy of MajorChanges...
01:14:48rasherBagder: you should poke lillebror
01:14:52 Join tessarakt [0] (
01:15:00Nico_Plinuxstb: makes sense... what about AA?
01:15:09Bagderrasher: that's zagor's machine
01:15:10 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:15:18rasherBagder: then poke him - same thing
01:15:21Lars_GSigh sorry to ask this but what's the right wiki on video conversion for rockbox? the new format
01:15:25Lars_Gall I can find is the old stuff
01:18:48pixelmawhich is also linked from the manual btw. ;)
01:18:52linuxstbNico_P: I would say remove that as well...
01:20:20linuxstbNico_P: But it's hard to judge... I think HISTORY would be more suited to things like support of new targets, and very major developments such as the SWCODEC playback engine first playing sound etc.
01:21:22rasherMoB perhaps?
01:21:48linuxstbAnd maybe things happening around the project - such as the introduction of the forums, moving from sourceforge to flyspray.
01:22:31saratogais anyone around who can change filespary?
01:22:41saratogai'd really like to make it sort patches by date by default
01:22:43rasherlinuxstb: getting nastygrams from whoeveritwas
01:22:48saratoganow they seem to show up in random order for me
01:23:06Nico_Plinuxstb: the early parts have quite a lot of software items
01:23:26linuxstbNico_P: I know, but the document would be huge if we kept up that amount of detail (and it would duplicate majorchanges)
01:24:10JdGordon|wdo we really need HISTORY?
01:24:15linuxstbsaratoga: I thought they were sorted by priority first, and then date?
01:24:56linuxstbJdGordon|w: I think it's a nice document - but maybe better in the wiki...
01:25:39linuxstbsaratoga: s/priority/severity/ (I think...)
01:25:45 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:25:53Nico_PIMHO MajorChanges should be in SVN and not in the wiki
01:26:41linuxstbWhy? Often non-committers helpfully add items there that devs forget.
01:27:10 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
01:27:10JdGordon|w7min to compile all sims on my mac :)
01:27:37scorche| takes that long just to buffer one movie for frontrow
01:27:54JdGordon|whaha yeah unfortunatly
01:28:33scorche|wwhy it needs to buffer in the first place is anyone's guess..
01:28:46*JdGordon|w shoves scorche into -comm
01:29:01scorche|wthats my line :)
01:31:36Nico_Plinuxstb: changing the file at the same time as we commit the feature could become a habit... reason is I feel the file belongs with the source rather than with the website
01:31:42 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
01:32:06linuxstbNico_P: I guess it could be a chapter/appendix in the manual...
01:32:15Lars_Gthanks linuxstb
01:32:29JdGordon|wNico_P: we forget FILES enough... you really think we'll remeber major changes also?
01:33:56saratogalinuxstb: I don't think they are
01:34:03saratogathe number 2 entry has a severity of "low"
01:34:16linuxstbsaratoga: What URL?
01:34:55linuxstbNo, I mean of the list you are viewing.
01:35:49linuxstbYes, all patches from #2 onwards are severity low (afaics)
01:36:00linuxstb#1 is medium, which is why it's first.
01:36:13linuxstbThey are then in date order (oldest first).
01:36:33saratogaah I see
01:36:45saratogawell then i guess i'm asking if we can put them in Newest First order
01:37:09linuxstbI wouldn't argue - the first thing I always do is sort them by date.
01:37:39linuxstbOr you could just bookmark
01:38:39 Quit crzyboyster ("CGI:IRC")
01:39:19Nico_PJdGordon|w: it would become a habit I guess
01:39:45Nico_PI do admit that I *always* forget FILES
01:40:19 Quit markun (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:40:30PaulJam_the committers also often forget to update the manual :P
01:40:36 Join Alonea [0] (
01:40:46 Join markun [50] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
01:41:26Nico_Phaha :) Now I have no excuse since I've gotten a bit more familiar with latex for school
01:41:42Nico_PAA still isn't mentioned in the manual AFAIK
01:41:47Aloneaso on the sansa 200 series using microsdhc, it has worked so far yes? Do you think higher capacities such as the 16gb and upcoming 32gb will work as well? Whats the highest capacity that has been tested?
01:41:48soapyes, one should not mess around at school without using latex.
01:42:06 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:43:35pixelmaNico_P: yes, the manual is missing quite lot "new" features...
01:45:41pixelmain meinem PDM-Ordner gibt's 22 Dateien in 7464 Ordners
01:46:02pixelmawrong tab
01:46:34 Quit JdGordon|w (" ajax IRC Client")
01:47:53 Join ze_ [0] (
01:47:59 Join hypercool [0] (n=c0587ccd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:48:09rasherAlonea: I think 8GB is the largest that's been tested, but afaik there's no reason 16 and 32 shouldn't work
01:48:18 Nick ze_ is now known as ze (
01:48:30rasherExcept for their disturbing failure to exist
01:48:45Alonearasher: lol. indeed. waiting for a 32 for my smartphone
01:49:01hypercoolare we discussing sdd by any chance?
01:50:19*linuxstb points hypercool to
01:51:31tessarakthmm ...
01:51:50tessaraktthe /doc dir has quite un-generic contents, right?
01:51:53hypercooloh hay thanks
01:52:20linuxstbtessarakt: Just out of date contents...
01:52:41 Quit SacredTerror (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:52:43tessaraktso the up-to-date contents are in the heads of the developers?
01:53:43rashertessarakt: that's often outdated or inaccurate as well. Trust the source
01:53:52hypercoolI'm here because i'm having trouble getting my 4G ipod to update its database. it does have harddrive issues, but i know for a fact that it can correctly mount/read/write etc. I'm actually listening to music on it now via the file browser, any ideas why the database is stuck at 0 found?
01:54:00tessarakt"Use the source, Luke"
01:55:56hypercoolis there perhaps a way to make the database on my machine and just copy it to ./rockbox?
01:56:08hypercoolwith the simulator or something perhaps?
01:56:29linuxstbhypercool: Are you using Linux/
01:56:38hypercoolnot at the moment
01:56:54hypercooli'm dual boot gutsy and vista
01:57:01rasherThere used to be a db-creation-tool, but it doesn't compile now
01:57:20hypercoolwell that sucks
01:57:33linuxstbI don't think it ever worked anyway - it was more a proof of concept that compiled but was lacking a working main() function...
01:57:51 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:58:07linuxstbBut yes, you could probably use the sim if you sym-linked your ipod's disk to the place the sim looks for music.
01:58:54 Quit pixelma (" reboot")
01:59:06hypercooli'll try it
01:59:07 Join Falco98 [0] (
02:00:20amiconnlinuxstb: The symlink probably won't work, as the path is still different
02:01:14PaulJam_would just copying the contents of the harddrive to the achos dir of the sim work?
02:01:16amiconnThat is, unless you make a symlink *replacing the archos/ sub-dir of the simulator build. That'd require to install the sim's .rockbox folder on the target
02:01:40linuxstbamiconn: Yes, that's what I meant.
02:01:43rasherOr just having the music in a subdir of archos/
02:01:48amiconnHmm, and it also only works if the sim has the same endianess as the target
02:02:02rasheramiconn: I'm pretty sure the db is endian-agnostic
02:02:04linuxstbI'm not sure if that's true - didn't Slasheri add endian-conversion?
02:02:30linuxstb(specifically to support PC-side generation IIRC)
02:02:39amiconnrasher: Yeah, that would work too. I never think of it as I'm not a fried of unnecessary folder levels
02:03:06amiconnFor me, it would work when adding ~10 symlinks
02:03:18rasheramiconn: depends what you mean by unnecessary - I'd like to keep videos and music apart for example
02:03:39rasherAnd text files etc.
02:03:47 Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
02:06:18 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox]")
02:06:32amiconnYeah, me too, but music is still the main purpose of a dap, and so my music category (coarse genre) folder are at the top level
02:06:56amiconnThat's especially helpful since 'follow playlist' is still broken
02:08:30PaulJam_follow playlist is broken?
02:09:02amiconnIt only works when you switch to the browser while playing, but not when the playlist ends
02:09:25PaulJam_ah that
02:12:41 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
02:13:25linuxstbrasher: Was it you who was investigating the final GPLv2 version of espeak?
02:14:23rasherlinuxstb: It was. But then I ran into a legal conundrum. I was moving modifications back to the last gplv2 version, and I figured those modifications were probably gplv3 as well. So that's probably no good
02:14:47linuxstbModifications made by whom?
02:15:17rasherBut... whoever it was that posted the original patch.
02:15:30rasherBut won't those be a derivative work of the gplv3 code?
02:15:42rasherI probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere anyway
02:16:10linuxstbPossibly, but I'm sure Toni is contactable.
02:17:47rasherI'm afraid I've removed it actually, but really, I hadn't done much useful
02:20:25linuxstbNo problem, I was just playing with the "voice aid" feature on my nokia phone and it made me wonder if there was any progress with espeak...
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02:22:11linuxstbIt seems that using the pre-GPLv3 version is the only option - if the author was prepared to revert back to GPLv2 I guess he would have offered by now, and there doesn't seem any desire to make Rockbox GPLv3...
02:22:39rasherIndeed, on all accounts
02:23:47*amiconn would like to see rockbox going gpl v3 asap
02:24:08*linuxstb too
02:25:00rasherI think I've said all I ever need to (and more!), on that subject.
02:25:23linuxstbWas anyone else pro-v3 apart from amiconn and me?
02:26:13rasherI don't really remember
02:30:57rasherThe thread on -dev has a bunch of minor contributors saying they don't care, mostly
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02:31:25saratogashould probably phrase it as "is anyone opposed"
02:32:27rasherI am, technically. But I realize that I don't really have any useful contributions so I won't make a fuss.
02:32:46amiconnlinuxstb: Greping shows no others except elinenbe (indirectly, check 20070828)
02:33:34amiconnMost of the discussion so far happened 20070824
02:34:41rasherIs Ray Lambert a committer? He seems very pro-v3, but I don't recognise the name
02:37:35hypercoolit worked
02:37:42hypercoollet it be known that i'm a genius
02:38:14hypercooli wish they'd hurry up and get control of solid state harddrives so that i'd stop getting i/o errors
02:38:49PaulJam_wouldn't code that was taken fron other gplv2 projects be a problem when moving to v3? or is all code from other projects "v2 or later".
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02:39:38saratogarasher: hes in the credits file but I don't know what he did
02:39:39rasherPaulJam_: I think someone said it was v2 or later
02:41:30rasherWhat's uisimulator/battery.c doing?
02:44:25rashersaratoga: He's mentioned in the commit notes twice, once for a id3 parser bug and once for A-B repeat on Archos devices
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03:01:37tessaraktare there docs for the simulator?
03:03:19pixelmaUiSimulator in the wiki
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03:08:32tessaraktit's not very high in Google ...
03:08:52tessaraktthere are mailing list archives first, and a forum message with a dead link
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03:20:46madman91does the 6th generation ipod classic have encrypted firmware that is "un"crackable for the time being?
03:23:33pixelmatessarakt: there is a "Search" link on the wiki main page (not the button in the left side menu) which leads to the pure wiki search, a bit hidden...
03:23:50madman91ah, I found information on the matter
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03:23:54tessaraktnow that I know it's in the wiki ...
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03:59:42crzyboysterIs cygwin a command prompt program?
04:01:36LloreanThat's not a very meaningful question.
04:02:01LloreanDo you mean "does cygwin present its user interface in a console window"? If so, more or less yes.
04:04:28crzyboysterLlorean: Yes, that is what I meant. For some reason, cygwin is not installing and launching properly for me when following the instructions at >
04:06:03crzyboysterWhen I finish downloading it, is it supposed to "install" because all of the files it downloaded stay on my desktop when they are supposed to be moved into the cygwin directory in the hardrive, correct?
04:09:34crzyboysterThen, I deleted the old downloaded files and ran the installer again and it turned out looking like this > This doesn't look like the first attempt at installation.What do I do with the n/a things?
04:10:31crzyboysterAnd what do the B. and S. mean after the "Category and New" in the menu?
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04:19:05crzyboysterAny cygwin experts around?
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04:32:57crzyboysterRerunning cygwin installation. All seems to be going fine for now...
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04:38:47cool_walking_I think "B" and "S" are Binary and Source.
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04:39:49aznim trying to put ".gbc" file into my friends ipod but when i do i can't open them what do i do?
04:40:05cool_walking_Just leave the n/a things. Just click on the word "Skip", to change it to "
04:40:10cool_walking_... "install"
04:40:43azni got the files onto mine
04:40:47cool_walking_azn: Wasn't talking to you
04:41:01scorcheazn: didnt we go through this last night?
04:41:09aznthats was on mine
04:41:16azni got the hang of it on mine
04:41:21scorcheit is done the same way...
04:41:33azni know but i can't open it
04:41:42azni see the file but i can't open it
04:41:44scorchewhat does it do?
04:41:45cool_walking_What happens when you try and open it?
04:41:57scorchedefine nothing
04:42:09aznscreen stays the same
04:42:12aznnothing loads
04:42:19scorcheand doesnt change? at all?
04:42:44scorcheare you sure the button works?
04:43:07scorcheand this is with a current build?
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04:43:36scorchetry a past one i guess....or a different rom
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04:43:42cool_walking_Choose "open with" from the context menu, and choose Rockboy.
04:44:43azncontext menu
04:45:00scorchehow are you trying to open it?
04:45:11aznby clicking on it
04:45:27cool_walking_Hold the "select" button down, while the cursor is on the .gbc file.
04:45:36cool_walking_It should come up with a context menu.
04:45:37scorchethat isnt how it says to in the manual..
04:46:24aznis r1630 the current build
04:47:06cool_walking_You must have left a digit out there... that's a _very_ old number.
04:47:53cool_walking_16239 is current.
04:48:42aznis the left #
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04:50:20cool_walking_Yeah, you must mean r16230, not r1630.
04:50:58cool_walking_the "080206" is the date - 6th of feb 2008.
04:52:42aznill try installing the current build
04:56:25aznyea that worked
04:56:32aznu guys r awesome!
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06:12:32swedishfishballin anyone here?
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06:50:26VegasGTI know this may be a stretch, but is there any progress of a rockbox version for Zune?
06:50:42krazykitany progress (none) would be in the New Ports forum
06:50:53VegasGTDidn't think so.
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07:09:38oskiehm.. my sansa e280 gets stuck in the original OS, "Updating Database".. so now I can't transfer any files to it :(
07:11:30oskiehm.. found a FAQ on this
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07:15:09star_jasminehi everyone... I wanted to know if anyone would help me with a strange error I have when making voices in cygwin with the speex codec.
07:15:37star_jasmineI followed sean's tutorial, and the voice is created, but it is only 6k, whereas it should be at least 800kb
07:16:26star_jasminereinstalling did not solve the problem unfortunately. I am using windows xp
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07:21:01star_jasminenow, I am attempting to download the latest build of today to see if that solves the problem
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07:24:06aznhow do you install pacman
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07:27:40krazykitazn, read the wiki.
07:29:28oskiehm..fixed by "Refreshing Datbase" problem..
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09:07:02Sanus|artHello, I'd like to ask permission for wiki editing, I hope it is a right way to do so.
09:07:19petursure, what's your wiki name
09:07:37Sanus|artIt's SashaKhamkov
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09:08:59Sanus|artThank you very much.
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10:20:44GodEaterdid anyone get any further theorising on the ATA issue on the Gigabeat S ?
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10:21:06GodEateri.e. did anyone look for ways to set up the timing on it?
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10:23:16c240I need a little help regarding the installation of RB on Sansa C240V1. I have read the manual, and there is a automatic or a manual install method. Could someone please advise if automatic method works flawlessly with sansa c240?
10:24:37c240I also have searched forums, but could not find any feedback from c240 users on this :(
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10:31:17linuxstbc240: I don't know, but if I was you I would try the automatic install and see what happens...
10:33:27c240could automatic install brick the player?
10:34:34c240or just in case of failure I can try the manual install?
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10:38:18pixelmac240: I think it just wouldn't work. Got some questions: what operating system are you running on your computer (so what RbUtil version would you use for the automatic installation) and what original firmware version is there exactly on your c240? Should be in their System menu I think
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10:40:05c240XPSP2, 1.01.00F
10:43:42pixelmaok, automatic install should work. You need to set the USB mode in the original firmware to "MSC" - this note is currently only in the manual installation section of the manual and for the complete installation (including the bootloader) you have to run rbutil as admin, not sure if the manual mentions it
10:45:21c240I already setup msc mode. the sansapatcher is integrated into the automatic setup? this info is not mentioned in the maual.
10:45:41GodEaterwouldn't be very automatic if it wasn't....
10:46:09pixelmaindeed :)
10:46:30c240thank you for your help. I will try soon :)
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10:54:08GodEaterwhat does the '|=' operator do in C? Don't think I've seen it before.
10:54:22pondlifeNot equal
10:54:35pondlifeAh, sorry, I misread
10:54:43pondlifeIt's a logical OR
10:54:51pondlifea != 0x01 will set bit 0
10:54:59*pondlife types wrong
10:55:15pondlifeToo early for using the correct characters
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10:55:41linuxstbI think pondlife meant that a |= b is the same as a = a | b (bitwise OR)
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10:55:50pondlifeI did
10:56:05uskihi, i have a sansa e260 and i'd like to put a video on it. Which format should i choose ? I can reencode to almost everything (i'll use transcode)
10:56:17GodEaterthanks ;)
10:56:38linuxstbuski: MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 video, with MP2 or MP3 audio, in an MPEG program stream container. The video should be resized to your LCD's size (220x176).
10:57:08uskiok, thanks; i guess mpeg1 is bigger but requires less computing power to decode, hence i'll get a better battery life out of it
10:57:14linuxstbuski: This page has some encoding information for Rockbox -
10:59:58linuxstbI don't think you'll find much difference between mpeg1 and mpeg2 though.
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11:03:35GodEaterare there any other targets which do similar ATA timing magic to that done in ata_device_init() in ata-imx31.c ?
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13:04:33gevaertsMore progress on FS #8562 : I can now mount my sansa c250 read-only, and actually access the filesystem
13:05:12linuxstbIs it reliable?
13:05:29linuxstbI mean "stable" ?
13:05:30gevaertsNot yet. It stopped working after copying about 60 MB
13:05:45Nico_Pawesome news!
13:05:47gevaertsError handling is still nearly non-existent
13:05:49linuxstbVery nice work. What was the issue?
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13:07:06*preglow leaps from walls
13:07:07gevaertsNot enough sleep :) Basically you have to link multiple transfer descriptors to enable larger transfers, but I made some mistakes on that yesterday. Now it works
13:07:56linuxstbAny idea of the transfer speed yet?
13:08:13gevaertsNext is write support, although I think maybe sd-card support should come first (so I can test writing to that one instead of risking destroying the firmware)
13:09:03linuxstbShame you don't have an ipod - they have a bootloader and USB disk mode in flash ROM, meaning you can trash the disk and still recover easily.
13:09:45gevaertslinuxstb: no. I'm not really looking at it right now. Once everything works at full speed I might have another look at this high-speed issue
13:10:11gevaertslinuxstb: from what I read recovering a sansa shouldn't be too hard either
13:10:31preglowat least it has five-six different layers of recovery mechanisms :)
13:10:32linuxstbYes, I was just thinking that - e200tool should do the job.
13:11:11preglowgevaerts: still, this rockbox thoroughly, looking forward to seeing more progress :)
13:11:13Nico_PGodEater: have you done more investigation re the ATA failures on the S?
13:11:25preglows/rockbox/rocks/ :>
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13:13:15pixelmacongrats! Nice progress! :)
13:13:25gevaertspreglow: write support shouln't be too hard, and going through the code to replace quick fixes with "real" code should take care of most of the stability issues
13:13:46peturcongrats! nice work
13:18:03preglowcommit! :)
13:19:03gevaertspreglow: go ahead :)
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13:20:50gevaertsHaving worked with USB drivers before definitely helps with this stuff
13:21:25Zagorgevaerts: what caused the 95-bytes issue?
13:21:50gevaertsZagor: no idea. I'm still working on full speed with 64 byte packets
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13:22:30Zagoroh, I thought the 95 problem was with 64-byte packets
13:23:25gevaertsNo. You actually can't do 64 byte packets on high speed (unless you count "short packets" at the end of a transfer).
13:23:43gevaertsThat's partly why I tried full speed
13:26:47peturgevaerts: from where are you in Belgium? ;)
13:27:31gevaertspetur: between Hasselt and Tongeren
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13:27:54peturnice... I'm in Gent
13:28:43crazy_buscan anyone tell me if the patch referred to here has being applied to svn. Because I experience a similar problem to whats reported in this bug
13:29:47preglowall this talk about belgium makes me think about beer...
13:31:36*petur figures he could have done a whois iso asking
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13:33:41gevaertspetur: at least the web-based one should work
13:34:30*petur gets a work NMI :(
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13:37:56krazykitcrazy_bus, if it hasn't been closed with a message like "accepted to svn" then it hasn't been applied to the svn code.
13:38:01cool_walking_I just read the log and figured I'd better talk to someone real that my subconcious couldn't have simulated, to ensure I'm not dreaming :)
13:39:07pixelmayou think we are real? ;)
13:39:12crazy_buskrazykit: my bug seems to have differences it doesn't display the correct time for a instant like in that report and the fix of rewinding a few seconds does nothing. Should I open a new report something random
13:39:47gevaertsHow safe is it to write to flash from a usb transfer ? Is there a cache that should be flushed or anything like that ?
13:39:58krazykitcool_walking_, read the guidelines, please.
13:40:24cool_walking_krazykit: I have, I just tend to ignore them from time to time.
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13:40:40krazykitcool_walking_, please don't, as it clutters the logs.
13:42:10krazykitcrazy_bus, you could apply the patch and see if it takes care of your problem
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13:52:15preglowgevaerts: why would you want to do that?
13:52:39preglowdepends what flash you mean, i guess
13:56:54gevaertspreglow: once we have write support, people will be mounting their device filesystems on their PC (after all, that's what this UMS thing is all about). That means bypassing the fat driver, so presumably the fat driver needs to be disabled while the usb connection is active. How should that be done ?
13:57:39GodEaterNico_P: I've not got that far yet - I was trying to understand what aliask's code in the ata_device_init() routine is actually doing
13:57:42Zagorgevaerts: we simply make it captive screen and pause the music, so nothing else is running.
13:57:56Nico_PGodEater: have you looked at the datasheet?
13:58:03GodEaterI'm struggling to understand where he's pulled all those numbers from
13:58:18GodEateryes, but the numbers he's plugging in seem a little random
13:58:47Nico_PI'll try to look too when I finish what I'm doing (hopefully soon)
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13:58:57GodEaterI assume he had a good reason for using them though (perhaps dissassembly ?)
13:59:09preglowouch, are usb transfers always that low level?
13:59:27GodEaterI was hoping we had a similar target that requires timing set up too - but no-one's said one way or the other
13:59:29gevaertsZagor: is there any filesystem buffering (next tracks on the playlist,...) ?
13:59:29Zagorpreglow: ums is. mass-storage is scsi-over-usb
13:59:43preglowso that would make it hard to, say, sniff the traffic and rebuild the database on the fly?
13:59:48Zagorgevaerts: we have read buffering on different levels, of course, but not write buffering
14:00:06Zagorpreglow: yes. that's why the invented MTP
14:00:49gevaertsZagor: OK. That means that stuff might crash after USB disconnection, but there should be no corruption.
14:01:38Zagorgevaerts: we handle such usb transitions already on other targets (with hw usb bridges), so this is not new.
14:02:34gevaertsZagor: ok, I won't worry about that then.
14:03:06*preglow wonders if the mtp spec is open
14:03:06Zagorgevaerts: we have an infrastructure where all threads get a usb connect signal and must ACK it before we activate the usb connection
14:03:21peturgevaerts: see SYS_USB_CONNECTED in the source
14:03:30linuxstbpreglow: I don't know, but libmtp is open source and seems quite complete.
14:03:49linuxstbBut that's obviously just dealing with the client (PC) side.
14:04:01preglowwell, i think most can be inferred from that
14:04:16linuxstbAlthough I have a feeling MS have submitted it to be a standard somewhere.
14:04:31Zagor"The USB Implementers Forum device working group is presently working on standardizing MTP as a fully fledged Universal Serial Bus (USB) device class."
14:04:48preglowWe implement MTP Basic, the stuff proposed for standardization.
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14:05:08Nico_Pyeah, could be nice
14:05:19linuxstbA nice google project for the summer...
14:05:40linuxstbI think it's already listed on the wiki.
14:05:56preglowand summer seems to be approaching already...
14:06:31linuxstbZagor: How feasible would plugins be for UMS/MTP/etc ? i.e. drivers that require claiming 100% of resources.
14:06:46ZagorI guess mtp is quite a bit more complex than ums.
14:07:08Zagorpossible, but perhaps a bit messy
14:07:10amiconnGodEater: Many targets require ata timing setup, e.g. coldfire and PP
14:07:18gevaertsMaybe ptp would be sufficient. That one is standardized, but doesn't do drm (and maybe some more stuff)
14:07:23linuxstbZagor: So your feeling is that drivers are best in the core?
14:07:25preglowapple uses their own thing for transfers, no?
14:07:31linuxstbpreglow: No, just UMS.
14:07:36amiconnOn PP we're not actually doing it though - we just hope the original loader sets usable values
14:07:45Zagorlinuxstb: that's my gut feeling yes, but I haven't really looked at what it would entail
14:07:48 Quit crazy_bus (Remote closed the connection)
14:07:53linuxstb(afaik, although there appears to be some extra private SCSI commands on top)
14:08:12linuxstbThings like setting the clock, and getting identification info from the ipod.
14:08:37Zagoryou mean set clock is not part of scsi? ;)
14:10:02preglowSCSI_GETIPODINFO surely sounds like a standard request too
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14:10:34Nico_PGodEater: I seem to remember wondering the same as you when looking at the ATA code
14:10:59knittldarn! it's a sansa v2
14:11:19linuxstbIf anyone is interested -
14:11:42linuxstbWe would need to handle that if a Rockbox'd ipod is to be identified by itunes.
14:11:44preglowanything happened on the sansa v2/ams side?
14:11:50preglowlinuxstb: do we want that? :-)
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14:12:44Zagorlinuxstb: what would the point be to integrate itunes with rockbox? can itunes work without its' own database?
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14:13:43preglowno, afaik
14:13:47Nico_Pamiconn: how are ATA timings determined?
14:13:51preglowand we don't want to encourage people to use the itunes db...
14:13:57buggboxH140, latest cureent: rockbox freezes when viewing .txt books with a line mode other than normal selected
14:14:02linuxstbZagor: Lots of Rockbox users still seem to use itunes to manage their music, so would expect that still to work with Rockbox's USB mode. But of course, we could just tell them to reboot to the Apple firmware if they want to talk to itunes.
14:14:39Zagorlinuxstb: hmm, so itunes doesn't require their own database?
14:14:59linuxstbYes, it does.
14:14:59buggboxquite annoying for if I inaverdently select right joystick, it'll freeze the player
14:16:00HorschtI seriously wonder what the point of using rockbox is, if you use itunes anyways...
14:16:40linuxstbGames and themes...
14:16:42ZagorHorscht: well itunes is a desktop software. rockbox is the player software. I could see a point. but I can't see how it would work.
14:16:47PaulJambuggbox: this is a known issue, see FS #8445
14:16:59HorschtThe reason I use rockbox is so I don't have to use any 3rd party software to manager my music. Just plug the ipod in any PC and transfer files
14:17:02Zagornot without us adopting the itunes db format
14:17:59linuxstbZagor: Rockbox works fine with itunes at the moment... itunes leaves the tags in the files, and the Rockbox database indexes those files.
14:18:14buggboxfix da bugs, dont implement new features
14:18:24GodEaterThere are plugins for iTunes to make it sync to "pure" UMS devices too
14:18:24 Quit buggbox ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
14:18:27preglowstuff like rating doesn't interface with the itunes db, though
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14:18:41GodEaterso it doesn't do the filename obfuscation, and doesn't update a DAP side database
14:19:30linuxstbpreglow: Sure, we don't fully integrate with itunes (we don't support their playlists or album art database either), but Rockbox is still usable with itunes-transferred music.
14:20:40Zagorok, nice
14:20:42GodEateramiconn: wrt to other targets that use ATA timing, have we any that look like the do similar set up to the Gigabeat S, and if so, where do we get the right values? Is it all just trial and error or what ?
14:20:49preglowdoes itunes tag files with gapless info, or leave that in the db?
14:21:00linuxstbI'm pretty sure it's in the tags.
14:21:06GodEaterpreglow: it does something nasty with the comments field
14:21:10preglowdo we currently support their way of doing it?
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14:21:15GodEaterhell no
14:21:16preglowGodEater: omfg :/
14:21:39aliaskGodEater: ATA timing stuff was mostly taken from the linux bsp IIRC
14:21:41Zagorvoilating standards for fun and profit...
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14:22:04GodEaterZagor: *is* there a standard way to do it with mp3 ?
14:22:06PaulJamafaik rockbox supports the itunes gapless info (at least for aac, for mp3 it isn't used)
14:22:07knittlhm. is this anything new: fdisk reports weird partition table with sansa v2
14:22:13GodEateraliask: ah cool - you're here :)
14:22:20aliaskNot for long
14:22:24GodEateroh :(
14:22:31ZagorGodEater: well no, I was more referring to id3
14:22:42GodEaterah ok
14:22:45aliaskI have maybe 5 mins. I said I left to pick someone up 10 minutes ago
14:23:02GodEatergo then, we'll pick it up another time
14:23:08GodEaterit'll give me more time to try to grok your code anyway ;)
14:23:19aliaskOkidoke. Good luck! :)
14:23:21 Quit aliask (Client Quit)
14:23:36Horschtisn't ID3 a hack anyways?
14:26:08PaulJamGodEater, preglow: see r13636
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14:29:24amiconnNico_P, GodEater: No, the ata timings are well defined by the ata standard
14:29:51GodEateramiconn: in which case you could take a look at the code in question, and let me/us know if they're right or not ;)
14:29:56amiconnAnd the system manual should describe how to setup the ata controller
14:30:12amiconnFor coldfire it does - for PP we have no manual
14:31:38GodEaterwe use PIO usually yes ?
14:32:40amiconnYes, on all targets so far
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14:33:04amiconnWe use PIO4, but we don't handle the power-on sequence properly
14:33:52amiconnThe disk usually does not power up in pio4, and as per the standard, must be configured for pio4 before using such fast timings
14:34:34GodEaterok - I don't recall seeing anything in aliask's code to get it into pio4
14:34:36GodEaterso I'll start there
14:35:22GodEaterbtw - the error message states to press "ON to debug" - what does that actually mean ?
14:35:22Nico_PGodEater: are you looking at the datasheet too?
14:35:26GodEaterNico_P: yes
14:35:37GodEaterthe timing section might as well be written in greek though
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14:38:35amiconnGodEater: It means that the ports debug screen will be called when pressing ON
14:38:48amiconnThe button name is a fixed-string leftover from the archos recorders
14:39:06GodEaterI guess that bit isn't implemented in this port then
14:39:09linuxstbgevaerts: I'm trying to test your latest patch on my (hard-disk) ipod, but get an error about "blocksize" being undefined in usbstack/usb_storage.c:201
14:42:57gevaertslinuxstb: oops, sorry. That should be SECTOR_SIZE
14:43:57linuxstbNo problem.
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14:49:32linuxstbgevaerts: It seems to work ;)
14:50:00linuxstbI can mount and do an ls...
14:51:01linuxstbI'm now trying to copy a directory of FLACs from the device
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14:52:40*GodEater runs to try it too
14:53:29*linuxstb wonders if SECTOR_SIZE is correct for the 5.5g ipods
14:54:10gevaertslinuxstb: no idea. That's what Zagor put there before I got my hands on the driver.
14:54:39linuxstbgevaerts: I'm getting this in my logs now "Feb 7 13:51:31 pre670 kernel: usb 1-2: reset full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2", and the copy appears to have frozen at about 20MB
14:54:49linuxstb(that log message is repeating)
14:55:00linuxstbAt 30 second intervals.
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14:55:43gevaertsYes. That's what I am seeing as well after a while. I think there is still something wrong in prime_transfer()
14:55:45linuxstbAh no, it's carrying on now...
14:56:02linuxstbIt seemed to come alive again, finish the first (29MB file) and is now on the second.
14:56:25gevaertsCan you check if the file is correct ?
14:56:53linuxstbIt passes the flac internal verification.
14:57:02linuxstbSo yes, I think it's correct.
14:57:19linuxstbAnd it sounds fine ;)
14:57:53gevaertsI hope to have write support sometime tonight
14:58:02GodEaterlinuxstb: I'll find out about the sector size correctness in a moment I guess
14:58:30linuxstbgevaerts: The potential issue with the 5.5g is that the Apple firmware exposes the disk with 2048-byte sectors, but the disk is in reality 512-byte sectors (or something like that...)
14:58:51linuxstbGodEater: I think you should hard-code it to 2048...
14:59:08GodEaterand at least on the 80GB version, only allows writes / reads in 2 sector multiples
14:59:59GodEaterlinuxstb: I'll see what happens with the default SECTOR_SIZE first
15:00:10GodEaterI suspect it'll read goblidigook
15:00:22gevaertsHow does linux behave with not-512-bytes blocksizes ?
15:00:37linuxstbI think it's happy.
15:02:25GodEateryeah it's fine
15:02:35GodEaterok - this won't even mount currently ;)
15:04:26GodEaterI got lots of "rejecting I/O to dead device"
15:04:36gevaertsIf I understand correctly, the current 128kb transfer buffer should be enough fr windows and linux. Does anyone know a more authoritative source for the windows side, and for macos ?
15:05:16gevaertsGodEater: what sector size does the fat driver use ?
15:05:28GodEater512KB still
15:05:35GodEaterassuming you mean Rockbox's
15:05:41GodEater512 byte even
15:06:21GodEaterall the magic happens in our ATA driver currentlyu
15:06:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:06:31GodEateramiconn is the mad scientist behind it all :)
15:06:56gevaertsThen I don't really see why it doesn't work for usb
15:07:21linuxstbGodEater: Are you trying hard-coding to 2048?
15:07:27GodEaterlinuxstb: I'm trying that now
15:07:27 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:07:29GodEateruno momento
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15:08:19linuxstbGodEater: I guess you've noticed that Rockbox stays in the menus - it doesn't enter the USB screen...
15:08:31GodEaterlinuxstb: er no
15:08:35GodEaterit enters the usb screen here
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15:08:46GodEatersd 13:0:0:0: [sdb] 4172286288 512-byte hardware sectors (2136211 MB)
15:08:52GodEaterdoesn't look promising
15:08:58GodEaterI wish it was that big ;)
15:09:54GodEaterthat's with the SECTOR_SIZE set to 2048
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15:15:36 Part Ro
15:16:31GodEaterok - previous effort I mistakenly just changed blocksize to 2048
15:16:37linuxstb2084 ;)
15:16:39GodEaterthe output there is once I change the SECTOR_SIZE
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15:17:20*GodEater recompiles
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15:17:51GodEaterwell spotted that man
15:18:11gevaertsThe ' [sdb] Unsupported sector size 2084.
15:18:21gevaertsbit is interesting.
15:18:28GodEateryes - my fault
15:18:34GodEaterI'm correcting that now
15:18:55GodEaternew pastebin in a moment hopefully
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15:19:36GodEatermuch better
15:20:04GodEaterstill won't mount though
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15:20:53GodEateralthough I'm not sure why though
15:20:54gevaertsIt still looks like a disk I'd like to have
15:21:00GodEaterthe MBR looks fine
15:21:39linuxstbCan you "dd" the first 1MB or so of /dev/sdb1 (the firmware partition)?
15:21:59GodEaterI just dd'd the MBR
15:22:00GodEaterhang on
15:22:26linuxstbIf you try /dev/sdb1, that may show you if Linux is interpreting the partition table correctly.
15:22:46linuxstbThe Apple (C) should be the very first thing in /dev/sdb1
15:23:18linuxstbYep, that looks like an MBR...
15:23:48 Quit OWL (Nick collision from services.)
15:24:28linuxstbAlso, does "fdisk -l /dev/sdb" report 2048 byte sectors?
15:24:28amiconnThe sector count is way off
15:25:16linuxstbYes, mine is too - fdisk reports that I have a 1TB disk in my ipod ;)
15:25:32linuxstb(it's 60GB)
15:25:35amiconnGodEater's is 8TB ;)
15:28:26GodEateryeah, I just noticed that :)
15:28:56linuxstbSo sector-size is OK, but geometry is wrong...
15:29:32linuxstbSo it still doesn't mount?
15:29:52GodEaterthe firmware image is complete rubbish too
15:30:01GodEaternot an SOSO in sight
15:30:12linuxstbMy ipod -
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15:33:37linuxstbHere's what fdisk shows with the Apple firmware -
15:33:56linuxstbSo the cylinder count is wrong.
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15:34:22LambdaCalculus37Morning, guys!
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15:39:46markunmorning LambdaCalculus37
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15:53:45LambdaCalculus37markun: Morning!
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15:57:47gevaertslinuxstb: if you extract sector counts from your fdisk values, and add 1, and print them in hex, you'll notice that they are just swapped
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15:58:52gevaertsCan you try swapping the 60 and 61 a few lines below case SCSI_READ_CAPACITY: ?
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16:01:19linuxstbgevaerts: Trying now.
16:01:19 Quit axionix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:03:35linuxstbgevaerts: Yes, that seems to be it. Nice spot.
16:03:50linuxstbAlthough I'm upset my ipod has gone back to 60GB.
16:03:59Horschthow boring
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16:04:34 Quit GodEater (Remote closed the connection)
16:04:41Horschtif you had a 8TB ipod, I wonder what my 80GB would have shown
16:04:58linuxstbNo, I had a 1TB, GodEater's 80GB was showing as 8TB
16:05:18Horschtfree upgrade
16:06:29LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Going to find out what my c240 says now.
16:07:03linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: It was a bug that only affect hard-disk players, so not the c240.
16:07:30gevaertsunfortunately the numbers don't come out nicely for GodEater's output
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16:10:49 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
16:11:26LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: GodEater should've told me sooner. :P I have a 4G iPod color on me, too.
16:12:14 Quit OlivierBorowski ("Konversation terminated!")
16:12:45LambdaCalculus37My c240 just appeared as a Mass Storage Device, but didn't assign a drive letter to it. Will have to try to do so manually, it seems.
16:13:41gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: are you on Windows ?
16:13:58gevaertsCan you try adding 'usb_drv_stall(EP_TX, true);
16:13:59LambdaCalculus37Yes, at work. XP Pro with SP2.
16:14:19LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Can't. It's a work PC and GodEater gave me the build.
16:14:26gevaerts' in handle_scsi() for the default: case ?
16:15:02LambdaCalculus37I can't set up a dev environment on this PC because our IT department is a bunch of fracking morons who don't like that sort of thing. >:(
16:16:27pondlifeI know the feeling
16:16:27gevaertsI'll try it later today. The problem is that windows sendsa scsi command that we don't handle, and the current patch just ignores it instead of stalling.
16:17:11*petur installed a dev environment in a VM, only to discover that the SVN port is blocked :/
16:18:20LambdaCalculus37petur: Not even allowed VMWare.
16:18:27kugelgevaerts: I love your work on USB support. If you need help, just ask me, I'm very willing to help you (I'm on Ubuntu 7.10 btw)
16:18:54LambdaCalculus37This place has this very silly rule about "outside software".
16:19:10kugelgevaerts: I could boot into XP sp2 though
16:19:15gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: gcc on ipodlinux ?
16:19:53LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: No iPodLinux here. My video is Rockbox and Rockbox only.
16:20:04pondliferasher: I'm finally trying your VM, but root password isn't rockbox :/
16:20:52*LambdaCalculus37 needs to get an iPod for iPL exclusively
16:21:29pondliferasher: Don't worry, I guessed
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16:24:23HorschtLambdaCalculus37, be happy about that
16:24:42Horschtmy workplace doesn't even allow IRC or similar Messenger services
16:24:58*amiconn wonders how long it would take to compile rockbox on ipl...
16:25:26Horschtlonger than battery runtime, probably :)
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16:27:21*linuxstb thinks that ipl's lack of a free() implementation would stop gcc quite quickly
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16:29:14linuxstbgevaerts: Would a test on Mac OS X be useful for you?
16:32:31pondlifelinuxstb: What, no malloc? Cowards!
16:32:44gevaertsHow safe is it to write to flash from a usb transfer ? Is there a cache that should be flushed or anything like that ?linuxstb: maybe. I just tried on windows again (with the usb_drv_stall), and it doesn't work yet, so if macos does something similar it will not work. It's always worth trying though.
16:33:05gevaertsoops. history gone wrong...
16:33:44linuxstbpondlife: No, they have malloc ;) (at least, that's my understanding)
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16:35:37pondlifemalloc but not free? Well, that trumps us then :)
16:35:42linuxstbgevaerts: I've left a long copy going on my ipod - it's copied about 100MB so far, and is still going (slowly). It freezes every 10MB or so, then after a few resets always seems to start up again and carry on. The files are correct.
16:36:44*pondlife reads logs and understands ..
16:36:56pondlife\o/ to gevaerts
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16:38:50gevaertsslowness is expected (it's only 12 Mb/s after all). The recovery is good news. I didn't really expect that to work already.
16:39:11linuxstbMost of the slowness is just the waits for resets.
16:39:22gevaertsthat too of course
16:40:08linuxstbIt seems to be taking about 2 or 3 minutes to reset.
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16:52:55gevaertsIt seems that windows will require write support to work at all
16:55:37linuxstbWhy is that?
16:56:48gevaertsNo idea why, but it tries to write.
17:00:36linuxstbIs there any such thing as a read-only UMS device?
17:01:03linuxstb(not that it matters - we obviously need write support, I'm just curious).
17:01:13LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Not that I know of.
17:01:32LambdaCalculus37I think the only way to make a UMS device read-only is to set it that way yourself.
17:02:02gevaertslinuxstb: maybe, but finding out how to do that is probably as time-consuming as implementing write support
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17:04:49rasherpondlife: root password should be root..
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17:05:50pondliferasher: It was, but I still don't get an eth0 interface
17:06:00pondlifeI've uninstalled and reinstalled VMWare too
17:06:19pondlifeMust be something odd about this PC
17:06:25rasherpondlife: no eth0 at all, or just not a working one?
17:06:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:06:35pondlifeNone at all
17:06:40rasher'ang on
17:06:41pondlifeDevice not found
17:07:00pondlifeI'm too busy at work to play with it now, I'm afraid
17:07:08pondlifeMaybe tomorrow!!
17:07:48rasherMaybe it's a player vs server thing, but I believe they should be compatible though
17:08:12pondlifeI have had it working before using player and the image on the wiki
17:08:33 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC")
17:08:33pondlifeBut now neither of GodEater's 2 images, nor yours will give me a network
17:08:45amiconnlinuxstb: Sure, e.g. USB CD-ROM drives
17:08:59rasherpondlife: Maybe the image on the wiki wasn't created by vmware server
17:09:01 Join defukt [0] (n=WTFOMGBB@
17:09:27scorche|wwhich image?
17:09:38rasherscorche|w: The one with x and the kitchensink
17:10:28 Join Sanus|art [0] (
17:10:46scorche|wDebian-4.7z ?
17:10:51 Quit Sanus|art (Client Quit)
17:11:02rasherwell The Image In The Wiki - isn't there just one?
17:11:14scorche|woh..i guess so...i was under the impression others were added
17:11:49scorche|wand no...4 and the previous versions that i did were done with vmware server
17:12:13rasherpondlife: I'm leaning towards blaming your computer
17:12:43rasherAnd no, I haven't added mine because no one has tested, other than pondlife, and I don't trust him!
17:12:55linuxstbamiconn: Of course ;) BTW, is the dedected sector size (512/2048) stored in a handy variable somewhere in an ipod video build?
17:13:17 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
17:13:42*pondlife doesn't trust pondlife when it comes to Linux
17:13:55rasherpondlife: And no network adapter in lspci?
17:14:05scorche|wwell, i was thinking that there was at least an image without x made by amiconn on there too for some reason..
17:14:15pondliferasher: What does that mean??
17:14:26pondlifeIs that a command?
17:14:41linuxstbYes, it shows devices on the PCI bus
17:14:50rasherIt usually is... except I haven't installed it in this vm :)
17:15:44pondliferasher: When I booted your VM up I got lots of errors, something about unable to validate
17:16:01pondlifeI guess it was trying to fetch updates, but unable to
17:16:20rasherYou're confusing me now
17:16:25rasherYou mean after you logged in?
17:16:34rasherAnd where does it say that 'rockbox' is the root password?
17:16:49pondlifeThe wiki page for the other VM
17:17:04rasherThat would be... for the other VM
17:17:18rasherThere's a README.txt
17:17:22pondlifeBut I didn't know any alternatives
17:17:23pondlifeAh, ok
17:17:32gevaertsI updated the patch on FS #8562 with all current fixes. There's also some non-working write support in it.
17:17:35pondlifeI can't play with it now
17:17:49pondlifeIn fact, I better work
17:17:51 Part pondlife
17:19:05 Join qwedsa_ [0] (
17:22:40 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=44a0430f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
17:26:11 Join MePerson [0] (n=458deaa8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
17:28:31 Quit MePerson (Client Quit)
17:34:54rashergevaerts: smashing
17:35:01gevaertsSome new progress : windows works, and writing works
17:35:03 Quit qwedsa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:35:11*rasher is psychic
17:35:36*gevaerts suspects that rasher just follows FS closely
17:36:02 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
17:36:04rasherOr that
17:36:05n1swow, that is some great news :)
17:36:50gevaertsBe careful though : it's not tested much. I just created a file and checked if it was there.
17:36:58rasherVery nice
17:36:58n1sand it's handy to know rasher is psychic so all those really weird questions can be reffered to him ;)
17:37:01*Horscht hands gevaerts a beer
17:37:10*gevaerts drinks it
17:37:41Nico_Pgevaerts: impressive
17:38:22gevaertsI don't understand Windows. It writes the boot sector, and then starts reading it until it sees its changes, so faking the write doesn't work.
17:38:24*rasher gets out the rusty build-chain
17:38:45rashergevaerts: that sounds fairly awful
17:39:43peturgevaerts: your pc is infected with a bootsector virus? ;)
17:40:28gevaertspetur: I doubt it.
17:41:08peturor would that be a way for them to detect read-only devices?
17:41:24rasherpetur: it should fail though, in that case
17:41:28rashereh, shouldn
17:42:57*GodEater raises his hand
17:43:00GodEaterI have a question
17:43:15GodEaterthe 2048 byte sector thing is as a result of Apple's usbstack is it not ?
17:43:39*GodEater wonders why we're trying to reimplement it
17:44:08n1sIsn't it due to a special disk?
17:45:04 Join gnakiienl [0] (i=0@
17:45:14GodEaterthe disk *controller* only allows writes in multiples of 2 sectors though
17:45:21GodEaterbut 2048 is twice that again
17:45:27 Quit dnakihjaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:46:54GodEaterI should say writes & reads actually
17:47:26 Join SSnake [0] (
17:48:35SSnakehi everyone
17:49:00saratogadoes the X5 charge over USB?
17:49:22SSnakei need some infos about plugin buffer handling. Can anyone help me?
17:49:56rasherSSnake: You're probably better off just asking your question
17:50:10 Join Arathis [0] (
17:50:30rashergevaerts: the e200 doesn't seem to go into "usb mode" in Rockbox? Although it does connect
17:50:31amiconnsaratoga: Yes, but in rockbox only slowly (100mA)
17:50:41SSnakei tought it was better to talk aobut privately because i think it's a long disussion. (avoid spamming all the channel)
17:51:06gevaertsrasher: sme thing here. I have seen the USB screen once during my tests. I didn't look into it though.
17:51:29rashergevaerts: I won't worry about it now.. I'll try to do some stress-testing
17:51:48gevaertsrasher: are you ready for unbricking ?
17:51:59scorche|wSSnake: well, i assume others can benefit from it and as long as it is on topic (and within the typical bounds), it sint spamming
17:52:44SSnakeok so i'll fire up all my findings and questions
17:53:16rashergevaerts: It's my understanding that you can't really wreck the sansa beyond a point where it's annoying, but perfectly possible to revive it
17:53:38rasherFirst read-test, du -csh completed without hiccups
17:54:30*GodEater would like to mention he's getting the USB screen every time so far
17:54:38rasherGodEater: Curious
17:54:43SSnakemy purpose is to write a plugin that needs all the buffer. So basically i need to stop audio (am i right?) and call rb->plugin_get_audio_buffer to retrieve it
17:54:57kugelgevaerts: Great job dude
17:54:57GodEaterSSnake: correct
17:54:59 Quit zylche ("+++ATH0--;")
17:55:43GodEaterbtw - I've noticed endian looking issues in the device id string
17:55:48GodEaterI guess not serious though ;)
17:55:54SSnakebut later on i need to write audio in some way. Actually the audio_buffer is filled with both video and audio data
17:56:47SSnakecan i output audio in some way (even if audio buffer is partially used for garbage and other things)?
17:57:08SSnakei have raw pcm datas in the main buffer (audio buffer) mixed with fb_data
17:57:27SSnakeso what plugin funcionts to look at?
17:57:32n1sfor example the midi plugin does that
17:58:13n1sthere is some function pcm_play_data() (iirc) that just plays raw interleaved pcm
17:58:37amiconnSSnake: Perhaps there's a little misunderstanding. The 'audio' buffer is not buffering raw pcm, but it's the main buffer of the core playback engine, buffering compressed audio
17:58:38rashergevaerts: Access seems to come in bursts of sorts - I've set it off to md5sum all my cover.bmp files, and the output scrolls at a decent pace, then suddenly slows to a crawl, only to pick up speed again
17:58:49amiconnSo of course you can use pcm playback in your plugin
17:59:20GodEaterI still can't mount my fat32 partition
17:59:25GodEaterbut fdisk -l looks healthier now
18:00:07SSnakemmmmmmm ok so pheraps this page is not helpful to me
18:02:37GodEaternumber of cylinders is still reported wrong
18:02:52SSnakelast question: to free up all ~30 MB memory i just call rb->pcm_play_stop() then when i call plugin_get_aduio_buffer() my buffer will be ~30MB right?
18:03:07gevaertsGodEater: it seems that ata.c assumes 512 byte sectors. Maybe we should just use SECTOR_SIZE and round all reads up to the nearest multiple of 4.
18:04:26gevaertsGodEater: forget that. That would just give an invalid partition table
18:04:27SSnakemmm there's also another funcion related: audio_stop()
18:04:37GodEateramiconn: you have any good suggestions here ?
18:05:25GodEatergevaerts: yes, ata.c does always assume 512 byte sectors, it just does some weird magic for the 80GB ipod to make sure all reads and writes happen 2 sectors at a time
18:05:44n1sSSnake: check plugin.c:793 to see how to use the plugin_get_audio_buffer function
18:05:51linuxstbgevaerts: Just calling plugin_get_audio_buffer() should stop audio playback.
18:05:56GodEaterI'd be interested with people's opinion on the 1024 byte vs. 2048 byte query I reaised earlier though
18:06:05GodEaterlinuxstb: you mean SSnake :)
18:06:15linuxstbI did...
18:06:43gevaertsGodEater: could you try dividing the sector and count numbers in all ata_*_sectors calls in usb_storage.c ? Make sure you try mounting in ro-mode now that it tries writing...
18:07:00SSnakeoh really thanks linuxstb
18:07:24SSnakethanks everyone i just checked plugin.c and yes it stops playback :P
18:07:34GodEatergevaerts: I'm not really scared of it doing much - there's always apple's emergency disk mode ;)
18:07:54 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
18:08:00gevaertsGodEater: not dividing of course... Multiply by 4. Otherwise you'd be trying 128 byte sectors
18:08:24GodEatergevaerts: so leave SECTOR_SIZE at 512 then ?
18:09:15LinusNi was under the impression that the USB driver in the PC would automatically read 4 sectors at a time because of the logical sector size
18:09:33GodEaterLinusN: what logical sector size ?
18:09:34gevaertsGodEater: Use 2048 as usb/scsi blocksize (to match the partition table), and multiply all ata* nmbers by 4.
18:09:36rashergevaerts: my filesystem got somewhat messed up, it seems
18:09:44LinusNthe block size
18:09:52gevaertsrasher: fun
18:10:06rashergevaerts: But it almost-worked!
18:10:57GodEaterLinusN: I think because we're saying to the PC, "2048 byte sectors" it says, well give me 1 sector then please, and in return rockbox is sending back on 512 bytes ?
18:11:02gevaertsrasher: maybe it's best not to post unofficial builds on the forums until there's some more error-checking.
18:11:39LinusNGodEater: beats me, i think gevaerts can answer that question
18:11:49GodEaterwell he's using our ata driver
18:11:57gevaertsGodEater: something like that. Only, it's padding the 512 bytes with some garbage to fill 2k, and it reads it from the wrong position.
18:12:08GodEatergevaerts: that's sort of what I assumed ;)
18:12:14gevaertsMultiplying all numbers by 4 should help.
18:12:19LinusNyes, but it's up to the usb storage driver to handle the block size
18:12:35GodEaterLinusN: not the stack at the other end ?
18:12:52rashergevaerts: Probably not, fsck.vfat is going absolutely mad, and all the filenames are missing their last few characters
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18:13:11LinusNGodEater: i guess both drivers need to handle it in their respective ways
18:13:22rashergevaerts: and this is when connected through the OF
18:13:43GodEaterLinusN: I guess maybe I don't understand it well enough
18:13:43gevaertsrasher: so it must be the OF's fault :-)
18:13:58 Join SpxnezzaR [0] (n=Separato@
18:14:02rashergevaerts: I'm afraid the Rockbox filebrowser agreed
18:14:11 Part SpxnezzaR ("Ухожу я от вас")
18:14:12GodEaterI just assumed that if our stack is saying the blocks are 2048 in size, but the ATA driver responsbile for sending them back is only reading 512 at a time, then we have a problem
18:14:25 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
18:14:26star_jasminehi everyone. I am having trouble building voices with cygwin. I have tried reinstalling it, but to no effect. When I ask it to make the voice, I receive error 127, and it claims not to be able to find a directory that is needed. what am I doing wrong?
18:14:34rasherFor example I have a "cover.100x10" file now
18:14:47star_jasmineI have done it successfully before. the voices are with the speex encoder for an ipod video.
18:14:58gevaertsGodEater, LinusN: I think from a basic UMS pov it would work as-is (i.e. just use 512 bytes everywhere), but then the partition table won't match, so that won't do much good.
18:15:06 Join Domonoky [0] (
18:15:10rasherstar_jasmine: Try running V=1 make > log.txt 2>&1 and post the contents of log.txt to a pastebin
18:15:20rasherAssuming I got the order of that command right..
18:15:29 Quit petur ("work->home")
18:16:36star_jasmineok. I will, as soon as I get it again. I am redownloading the svn for today, in another attempt to get this working
18:16:42LinusNgevaerts: i guess we must simulate 2048-byte sectors in the UMS layer
18:17:36LinusNgevaerts: good work btw, i am impressed
18:18:11GodEatergevaerts: the multiplying hasn't worked
18:18:39gevaertsGodEater: do you have some fdisk output ?
18:18:49GodEateryes - it remains the same
18:18:53 Join perrikwp [0] (i=982165ed@gateway/web/ajax/
18:18:56rasherCan I simply format the Sandisk's data partition, or do I need to save some bits?
18:19:12GodEaterit's still reporting a 320GB ipod ;)
18:19:32Horscht8TB was better
18:19:36GodEateryeah =/
18:19:56gevaertsLinusN: It wasn't that hard. The main thing was finding this PORTSCX_PORT_FORCE_FULL_SPEED. Of course it helps that I've done USB work before
18:19:57GodEaterright - sorry all - I have to disappear - I have an appointment this evening
18:20:02GodEaterI'll pick it up tomorrow
18:20:21gevaertsrasher: The next thing that needs to e
18:20:24preglowgevaerts: yo, is your usb stuff enabled for ipods as well?
18:20:27LinusNgevaerts: but the full speed is just a workaround, isn't it?
18:20:43gevaertsbe done is sd card support. That's easier to clean up.
18:21:21rashergevaerts: that'd be beyond awesome, right now I need to use an awful card adapter because my microsd is sdhc and the OF doesn't understand that
18:21:52gevaertsLinusN: I hope so. high speed should work, but there's probably some initialisation stuff missing, and until someone finds out what that is there's not muchwe can do
18:21:56GodEaterpreglow: yes - that's what I've been testing on
18:22:18gevaertsrasher: what do you prefer ? current write support or a card adapter :-)
18:22:21*GodEater prods at amiconn to make him join in the testing
18:22:36rashergevaerts: I'm going to have to go with the card adapter
18:22:38GodEaterright - I'm off - later all
18:23:00star_jasmineI don't know if I misunderstood who to post the log to. I can copy the error I have to the channel, if that is acceptable
18:23:14Horschtuse a pastebin
18:27:53star_jasmineis there any other way to build these voices without cygwin under windows? I haven't had this trouble before
18:28:09rasherstar_jasmine: not really, no
18:28:22star_jasmineit basically says it can't find a specified directory off of the home/owner/rockboxbuild
18:28:43rasherWell can we see the log file?
18:28:53star_jasmineI've almost decided to reformat the computer, if this behaviour is unusual
18:29:07rasherThat might be a bit premature
18:29:17star_jasminesure. as soon as its finished generating a dud voice file. I"m not sure how to cancel it in mid-process
18:29:41n1sctrl-c perhaps
18:30:01 Quit gevaerts ("going home")
18:30:08preglowusb_storage.c:(.text+0x678): undefined reference to `card_get_info'
18:31:07star_jasminecool thanks. ok posting log. could someone tell me the command again? sorry for asking again. I'm using a screenreader, and the screen scrolled on this end
18:31:20star_jasmineabout how to generate he log that is
18:31:30rasherstar_jasmine: V=1 make > log.txt 2>&1
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18:35:34star_jasmineok.. making that log. just had to correct my punctuation and its happening
18:36:58preglowGodEater: did you modify much to make it work?
18:37:07 Quit UncleRemus ("leaving")
18:38:00star_jasmineno it was right. the instructions. I just had put a > sign in the wrong place. now, its still generating
18:38:27star_jasminewhere do I find the log once its finished? excuse my ignorance
18:38:49Domonokyin the same dir as you run make.. :-)
18:38:53star_jasmineI just did. its growing steadily
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18:42:59star_jasmineok I've uploaded it. its just called log.txt
18:43:20rasherstar_jasmine: Where?
18:44:17 Part SiaS
18:45:06 Quit Arathis (Connection timed out)
18:45:08 Join Arathis2 [0] ( rockbox log for voices
18:48:20linuxstbpreglow: I guess the usb code is using the flash code, rather than the ATA code for the Nano...
18:48:43linuxstbpreglow: So you may need to fix the #ifdefs in usb_storage.c
18:49:19linuxstbpreglow: There was nothing to modify for the hard-disk based ipods.
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18:50:27 Part agm3nt
18:52:03star_jasminethis looks ugly. I took a quick read of it after posting
18:52:37rasherstar_jasmine: sorry, my fault... I gave you the wrog command
18:52:46rasherstar_jasmine: V=1 make voice > log.txt 2>&1
18:53:29star_jasmineI type this command in the same directory as I made the voice, in?
18:55:13rasherstar_jasmine: yes, if I understand you right
18:55:13star_jasmineok going
18:55:26star_jasmineits happening now. thanks. I"ll post it in the same place and give the url
18:56:15star_jasminejust a side note... is there a way to make sapi 4 voices with cygwin?
18:56:31star_jasmineI won't be doing that until I have this idiotic problem figured out but wondered anyway
18:58:24 Join gevaerts [0] (
18:58:28rasherI don't really know much about that part, amiconn might know
18:59:00Domonokyit should be possible to use sapi4, the scripts support it, but its very slow as sapi4 only allows realtime speak for vbs scripts i think..
18:59:48star_jasmineoh ok. just another question that should be obvious, but isn't. is this log going to be titled differently? or the other one overwritten? I exitted cygwin before making it, so I hope the same information is present
19:00:19amiconnSure you can build voice files using sapi4
19:00:19star_jasmineoh yeah... its being voerwritten
19:00:23rasherstar_jasmine: it'll overwrite the previous one
19:00:29Domonokyif you choose the same name, it will be overwritten... (log.txt)
19:00:30star_jasmineok thanks
19:00:30amiconnBut it's take ages compared to sapi5 or other engines
19:01:08 Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo)
19:02:24amiconnJust add /sapi4 to your list of tts parameters
19:02:24 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
19:03:20kugelIs there something I can do to help for the USB stuff?
19:04:09*amiconn wonders who added that half-baked list mode to sapi_voice.vbs
19:04:29amiconnIt duplicates code, and doesn't handle sapi4
19:04:55Domonokyit was me.. *hides*
19:05:35Domonokyi dont know enough vbs, so i coded just enough to show a voice list in rbutil :-)
19:05:45 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
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19:06:08preglowworks like a charm
19:06:11star_jasmineit says my upload is too big. can I dcc it to someone?
19:06:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:06:55preglowejecting doesn't work too nice :>
19:07:04linuxstbpreglow: Did you try writing?
19:07:19star_jasmineno I'll do that
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19:07:45amiconnDomonoky: In an application, I'd rather try to talk to sapi directly instead of scripting
19:08:18amiconnThat has several advantages. The biggest one would be that you can speed up sapi4 operation to 8x realtime
19:08:23star_jasminejust a sec. this happens regardless of whether I have the lame installed, but do I have to have it installed if I use speex?
19:08:27preglowlinuxstb: gnome might have, seems a couple of files are somewhat mangled now...
19:08:31amiconn(a feature that isn't available for scripting)
19:08:33 Quit axionix (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:08:44Domonokyamiconn: i tryed to use sapi from C++, but wasnt much successfull..
19:09:19rasherWriting gave me a nicely corrupted filesystem
19:09:30preglowlinuxstb: yeah, they're thoroughly messed up... files truncated, both names and content
19:09:38 Join FOAD_ [0] (
19:09:42rasherpreglow: welcome to the clup
19:10:19preglowi now have two files with the same name
19:10:21preglowbeat that, windows
19:10:21linuxstbpreglow: Do you get the USB logo appearing?
19:10:28preglowlinuxstb: sure, that part worked nice
19:10:35preglowejecting did not, but detected me yanking the cord out just fine
19:10:35Domonokyso if someone knows how to use sapi from c/c++, i would be happy if he writes a new ttsSapi class :-)
19:10:39linuxstbHmm, like gevaerts, it's only appeared once for me...
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19:10:53rasherI didn't get the USB logo (sansa e200)
19:10:55preglowi'm not inserting the cable again :-)
19:11:05krazykiti got the usb logo 3/4 times i plugged it in.
19:11:12rasherpreglow: better not reboot either
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19:11:29preglowkickass ls entry:
19:11:30preglow?−−−−−−−−- ? ? ? ? ? elephantsdre
19:11:42preglowrasher: already did, heh
19:11:58preglowrm insists the file does not exist :P
19:12:03rasherI got hundreds of lines of noise and beeps when doing ls on a dir
19:12:17rasherThat's when I decided I should probably just format
19:12:32star_jasmineinstalling lame codec, but I doubt it will make any difference. then reposting the log
19:12:39*linuxstb thinks he will mount -o ro
19:12:40amiconnDomonoky: The sapi sdks have several example programs
19:12:52 Part noiz
19:13:11Domonokyamiconn: maybe i should try it again, when i have enough time :-)
19:13:46rasherlinuxstb: weak
19:14:48kugelrasher: Are only the files missing the last character, or is the filesystem broken?
19:15:23rasherkugel: the filesystem is beyond help
19:15:33rasherAt least it was for me
19:16:07*kugel is backing all files right now, planning to test a usb build
19:16:14*scorche|w forcibly makes rasher join -community
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19:17:24 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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19:17:48linuxstbgevaerts: I don't know what you've done, but I'm not getting those reset problems any more - it's copying a large directory without issue.
19:19:47preglowthoroughly broken
19:19:54preglowi got duplicate file names
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19:22:58gevaertslinuxstb: nothing that I can think of
19:23:44star_jasminewe'll see what happens. I just installed lame and no errors so far. we'll see if my voice file is 6kb
19:23:59star_jasminewhich is ridiculously small
19:24:03star_jasmineand shouldn't be
19:24:27star_jasmineno erors on the voice screen after isuing make voice command
19:25:01*gevaerts also has some filesystem corruption
19:25:13rashergevaerts: fun, isn't it?
19:25:34 Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend")
19:25:35gevaertsrasher: sure. I'm starting work on sd card support right now
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19:25:52*BigBambi is very excited by all this
19:25:52rasherThat should make for a less painful debug session
19:26:15kugelPrefetch abort at FFFFFFFE (0)
19:26:22 Quit quaal (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:26:26rasherkugel: that's new
19:26:38kugelright after boot
19:26:45kugelno tranfer done yet
19:27:25kugelOk, after a hw reset, it boots up now with holding rec to load default config
19:28:17 Join mf0102 [0] (n=michi@
19:28:59kugelI'm using a build with the latest fullspeed.path btw
19:29:11rasherWhich player?
19:29:43kugelwell, it doesn't connect, since it's allways rebooting into the of
19:30:23scorche|wgevaerts: so, if you dont mind me asking, you have seem to come here suddenly...where did you come from? :)
19:31:42 Quit roxfan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:31:43 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
19:31:53 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
19:32:54gevaertsscorche|w: nowhere. I've known about rockbox for a while now, but I never had a supported player (I had one of these cheap noname players). Then I got my c250, put rockbox on it, and since I don't like to wait for the OF to refresh a database I'm not going to use anyway, and I have some USB experience, I started on this.
19:35:15kugelIs there anyway to disable the automatic reboot? I can't get it to connect this way
19:35:53 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
19:37:01 Join hannesd [0] (
19:37:55gevaertskugel: did the patch apply without errors ? The bit for usb-fw-pp502x.c should disable the reboot
19:38:25star_jasminewould someone tell me how to log my voice making efforts again? to send it to a .txt file?
19:38:48rasherstar_jasmine: V=1 make voice > log.txt 2>&1
19:40:04 Nick roxfan2 is now known as roxfan (
19:41:47LinusNrasher: or make V=1 voice > log.txt 2>&1
19:43:26kugeluhmm, it applied cleany...but not in the first place
19:43:38kugelas in I didn't apply the patch actually
19:43:42kugel<−− dumb
19:45:40star_jasminepok. making it now thanks
19:46:32 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
19:46:38kugelgevaerts: great
19:46:43 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
19:47:10kugelfirst time rockbox is connected to pc, let me celebrate a moment
19:48:17 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
19:48:31star_jasmineok... just one more question. I stupidly closed the webpage where I was posting the first log. could someone give me a suitable posing point?
19:49:27 Quit markun (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:49:33 Join markun [50] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
19:49:55kugelOk, I just created a test file in rockbox while it's connected to the pc.
19:50:08kugelIt's not showing up on my pc
19:51:07rasherstar_jasmine: ?
19:51:44kugelIs it supposed to be like this?
19:52:13LinusNkugel: rockbox is not supposed to change anything on the filesystem while connected
19:52:36kugelthe the test file is just virtually there?
19:52:44kugelit shows up in rockbox
19:52:58LinusNyes, but the pc might have cached the directory
19:54:04kugel"ABCDEFGH mnopqrst Musik-Player" at trying to unmount
19:54:15amiconn*never* write to a file system that is accessed from elsewhere, except if the filesystem is prepared to handle such a case
19:54:23amiconn(i.e. it is a cluster file system)
19:55:36kugelOk. Though, I reconnected it now, and a file in the root is missing, and another is a bit screwed up
19:55:39star_jasmineyes thanks. ok. posting now
19:56:32 Join advlaptop2019_ [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
19:56:33kugelat least the text file is still there
19:56:41rasherkugel: Welcome to a world of fun. Try exploring your fs further and you'll find amazing surprises
19:56:42LinusNso we can all conclude that there is a bug in the usb storage driver that writes to the wrong sectors or something like that
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19:56:53 Quit advlaptop2019_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:56:56 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
19:57:02kugelrasher: I rebooted rockbox just fine now
19:57:16kugelI didn't write something from the pc to the player yet
19:57:18rasherkugel: Try copying some files back and forth..
19:57:39rasherLinusN: I'd say that's a safe bet. Perhaps even an off-by-one since some filenames get truncated to one letter less (or that might be an unrelated problem)
19:57:41star_jasmineits not posting for some reason. either uploading is too big, or writing won't work. can I dcc it?
19:58:04Horschttry another one
19:59:10kugelrasher: I have to screen dumps on the root which are screwed up now. On rockbox they both show up but they show not much more than pixel garbage. On the pc only 1 of them shows up, even more pixel garbage and some characters missing in the file name
19:59:10star_jasminesendspac? I'm not familiar with these sites
19:59:27Horschtthese sites are for pasting text
19:59:42 Join advlaptop2019__ [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
19:59:57Horschtsendspace is for uploading files
20:00:00 Join TMM [0] (
20:00:16 Nick advlaptop2019__ is now known as advlaptop2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
20:00:59gevaertsLinusN, rasher: a simple off by one seems unlikely, however the write code doesn't check if incoming data is complete, and if something goes wrong (like whatever problem leads to resets on read), it might write random data that happened to be in the buffer
20:01:06kugelrasher: copied two single files from the pc to the player now, rockbox still boots fine
20:01:52rasherkugel: Large files? Try copying an album
20:01:55 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
20:02:10star_jasminehere it is now
20:02:50kugelIs there any chance that rockbox doesn't notice that a usb cable is inserted when the backlight is off?
20:03:15kugelthat happened to me twice in the past view minutes
20:03:24rasherstar_jasmine: Looks like you've pressed some bad buttons when asking for encoder options (arrows or something)
20:04:03 Join perrikwp [0] (i=98214ef5@gateway/web/ajax/
20:04:26star_jasmineif I leave the defaults alone for encoding q 4 c 10, I still get a tiny voice file
20:04:40star_jasminethe same as if I hadn't changed it
20:04:58 Join shotofadds [0] (n=510165de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:04:59 Part LinusN
20:05:08rasherstar_jasmine: What did you do when it asked you for encoder options?
20:05:09kugelI'm just doing the commands rasher did (see FS #8562), and the terminal doesn't do anything at the first command
20:05:22 Join merbanan [0] (n=banan@
20:05:41linuxstbshotofadds: Hi. How are things going with your D2's flash?
20:06:40rasherkugel: it's a bit slow
20:06:48gevaertskugel: try dmesg in another terminal. That might give some hints
20:07:21kugelI did ctrl+c and some other du stuff and rashers command again, everything worked
20:07:31kugelnot sure why it "freezed" in the first place
20:08:30star_jasmineI think using rbspeexenc for encoding voice clips. then options for quality and so on.
20:09:07 Quit JdGordon|w (" ajax IRC Client")
20:09:20 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
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20:09:50kugelok, the second command started fine, but it made a huge pause
20:09:59shotofaddslinuxstb: it's going pretty well. I'm currently bug hunting - I can open files successfully, but some appear truncated as if the cluster map is returning duff data. I'm going to spend tonight peppering the FAT driver with debug text...
20:10:00*gevaerts thinks he has these 8TB ipod owners beaten : sd 16:0:0:1: [sdc] Very big device. Trying to use READ CAPACITY(16).
20:10:19rasherstar_jasmine: try just pressing enter when it asks for encoder options
20:10:37shotofaddstrouble is, work gets in the way :/
20:11:02tessaraktargs, the original Sansa firmware does not even get ID3 tags right ...
20:11:40gevaertskugel: do you see usb device reset messages in the dmesg output ? If so, that adds delays
20:11:45kugelgevaerts: for me it does still this pauses from time to time
20:12:25kugelwait a second
20:12:43gevaertskugel: ok. That's "normal" for now. Now and then rockbox misses a usb transfer, and linux resets the device, which takes a while
20:12:47kugelDidn't someone have this issue some hours ago?
20:13:03rasherThat would be me. And apparently it was already known
20:13:13linuxstbshotofadds: Have you done any work on enabling interrupts?
20:13:32rasherMy dmesg is full of FAT: Filesystem panic (dev sda1) now
20:13:42rasherPoor FAT
20:13:51preglowthe "now playing" banner on the cabbiev2 wps is a bit small on nano
20:14:02bluebrotherwell, it's too fat anyway ;-)
20:14:25gevaertsrasher: in my case fsck.vfat didn't believe it was a vfat filesystem
20:14:30kugelpreglow: While we're at it. IMO the album art could be a bit larger on e200. There's at least 20 pixels wasted
20:14:56preglownever tried aa
20:15:12shotofaddslinuxstb: not yet, but it's high up the list of things to try. it'll be a walk in the park i'm sure..
20:15:38preglowdo i need to enable it somewhere?
20:15:46rashergevaerts: for me it only fixed a few errors and left a still completely broken filesystem
20:16:23rasherpreglow: you need appropriately sized cover.bmp files .. see
20:16:54kugelpreglow: Oh, and the nowplaying banner could be bigger too, yes
20:17:01rasherThere's some wiggle-room for the filenames and locations, actually
20:17:04 Join karashata [0] (
20:17:04Horschti think the font on the cabbiev2 that is included in svn now, is a bit small
20:17:28preglowdamn, all those locations are scanned for album art?
20:17:30preglowthat's got to be slow
20:17:49Horschti prefer the manualy downloaded unifont versions of cabbiev2
20:17:53 Join JdGordon|w [0] (i=836b004b@gateway/web/ajax/
20:18:34kugelAh, I see some files lacking the last char in filename
20:18:52preglowmy file names lacked a lot more than just the last char...
20:19:13preglowHorscht: i agree the font is a bit too small, yea
20:19:22kugelEhm, yea, pretty much messed up.
20:19:46rasherpreglow: the aa scan is done while buffering though afaik, so it shouldn't be too costly I imagine?
20:20:46preglowi don't know
20:20:52kugelAt least my sansa is still booting up
20:21:17 Join spiorf [0] (
20:21:21rasherkugel: it's only a matter of time - write support is quite dodgy it seems
20:22:33kugelparted still sees it as fat32 device
20:23:03*shotofadds needs to eat .. filesystem bug-hunting isn't much fun
20:23:18Learrasher: seems it can be a bit costly, at least if you have big directories.
20:24:02*Lear needs to reboot, bbs.
20:24:05 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 3.0b3pre/2008020104]")
20:25:00 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:25:11kugelI can't delete or format in gparted, it looks like the partition is locked
20:26:30 Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
20:26:41kugelfsck.vfat /dev/sdf
20:26:41kugeldosfsck 2.11, 12 Mar 2005, FAT32, LFN
20:26:43kugelCurrently, only 1 or 2 FATs are supported, not 191.
20:27:04bluebrotherseems your FAT is messed up a bit
20:27:15 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
20:27:30rasherTold you
20:27:39kugelI was aware of that
20:27:43bluebrotherthere are usually 2 copies of the FAT (the table, not the filesystem).
20:28:00bluebrotherbut FAT (the filesystem) can use a different number of that.
20:28:56kugeland how can I repear it?
20:29:13rasherkugel: mkfs.vfat or using recoverymode + sansa.fmt
20:29:28bluebrotherthe number of FAT tables is noted in a value in the boot parameter block, which is at the start of the partition (after the boot sector)
20:29:34kugelrasher: yea, just remembered of sansa.fmt
20:30:14bluebrotherdoes reading work reliably yet?
20:30:56linuxstbbluebrother: Yes, it seems to be.
20:31:09bluebrothercool, I should try it on my mini
20:31:32linuxstbJust make sure you mount it read-only ;)
20:31:44bluebrotherhehe ;-)
20:34:28 Quit obo ("bye")
20:37:17SSnakepheraps i've found a bug in dict.c
20:37:36kugelwell, I formatted, but the PC doesn't recognizes the player
20:38:27SSnakeis there some developer who wants to check dict.c with me?
20:38:50kugelduh, damn OF defaulting to mtp
20:40:11linuxstbSSnake: What's the problem?
20:40:12rasherkugel: exact same thing happened to me
20:40:13SSnakewell at line 68 in dict.c
20:40:27SSnakethe funcion pl_malloc() in dict.c
20:40:51linuxstbWhat about it?
20:41:21SSnakeit simply never update the global variable "ssize_t bufleft"
20:41:50SSnakeso pl_malloc always returns true even if the buffer is full
20:42:13linuxstbYes, good spot. That does seem to be a bug.
20:42:16SSnakecan u confirm this?
20:43:54SSnakei have no configured svn access so i can't change anything (nor i am registered yet)
20:46:39SSnakesimply add "bufleft -= size;" at line 79
20:47:45BigBambiSSnake: You need to be awarded SVN access, so post patches etc. on flyspray
20:48:49 Quit star_jasmine (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:48:50kugelI wonder how much patches one needs in order to get svn access. Anyway, I'd rather think it depends on the quality of the patches and not on the quantity
20:49:24bluebrotherthere's no "count of patches you need to have done"
20:50:08BigBambikugel: It is quality not the number
20:50:42kugelExpected that. Actually, I was surprised badly if it was the number
20:51:27SSnakeyes i will when i'll finish my plugin. no time to do that now (nor enough rockbox know-how yet)
20:51:41kugelDid anyone think about about the flashlight plugin? I think it's a simple and yet very usefull plugin, which deserves committing
20:52:58Horschtjust keeping the backlight on?
20:53:06*linuxstb thinks it's useless, but has no objection to it being committed
20:54:00kugelHorscht: This, and setting the brightness to the highest
20:54:08bluebrotherflashlight plugin?
20:54:56kugellinuxstb: I can enlighten my entire room
20:55:57kugelRecently I was on a bus trip, and the driver was to lazy to swtich the seat lights on. We lacked a flashlight, I wished I allready had the plugin installed now
20:57:18preglowbut no, i don't oppose commiting that either
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20:57:54 Join Soul-Burn [0] (
20:57:56rasherI still think it should be start on red light, but committing is fine at any rate
20:57:57Horschtneither would I, but I guess i don't have a vote anyways
20:58:02Soul-Burnhello there
20:58:30 Quit tessarakt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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20:58:43 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
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20:58:52kugelrasher: How about that. It starts with red, any button press will turn it into white, the next button press will exit it?
20:58:52linuxstbI would vote for it being called "torch" instead of "flashlight", as Rockbox uses British English.
20:59:01 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:59:02BigBambime too
20:59:22Horschtbut isn't a torch something different?
20:59:28Horschti though a torch involves fire
20:59:29LloreanWhy not just use "Light"
20:59:42BigBambiHorscht: That is a different kind of torch
20:59:42Soul-BurnI have a small problem with rockbox... It runs and everything, except one little missing feature. It doesn't make any sound :>
20:59:50LloreanOr get fancy and go with "Illuminate"\
21:00:03BigBambiHorscht: Torch is what we call a thing you hold with batteries that produces light
21:00:07kugelHorscht: Played too much diablo (2), didn't you? :D
21:00:11BigBambiLlorean: I like that one :)
21:00:34Horscht"brighten up your life2
21:00:51linuxstbSoul-Burn: You'll need to give us a bit more info to go on...
21:01:08 Join robin0800 [0] (
21:01:23Soul-BurnI installed rockbox today on an iPod photo
21:01:26bluebrotherwho wants sound of Rockbox anyway if he can get lightbox? *g*
21:01:32Soul-Burntried running an MP3 file from the file manager
21:01:41kugelyea, illuminate sounds good. Especially since it's not really a flashlight (which has a defined cone of light)
21:01:54Horschtmaybe volume was turned down completely
21:02:09Soul-Burntried upping it to +6
21:02:10*shotofadds thinks it would be great if Rockbox had a Flash Light plugin ;)
21:02:20 Quit Axio (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:02:28Soul-Burnusing the scroll wheel and menu volume
21:02:34Soul-Burnit's a fresh install
21:02:39rasherkugel: I still don't quite get why not use all buttons except an exit button to switch between red and white
21:02:44bluebrother"fiat lux!"
21:02:59rasherkugel: using your method you'd have to go through white to exit, ruining the point of using red in the first place
21:03:12BigBambiYeah, I use my mobile as a torch quite often
21:03:16kugelrasher: It'd require button mapping
21:03:28Horschtmaybe the forward button would turn it white
21:03:32rasherkugel: For a single button.. not exactly the end of the world
21:04:09rasherIf someone writes a raytracer for Rockbox, the plugin must be named cornellbox
21:04:13kugelrasher: the light is still mostly white after exiting the plugin
21:04:22rasherkugel: depends on your settings and theme
21:04:32kugelIMO doesn't make a big difference if it's white at maximum for a split second
21:04:50rasherBut why? What's your aversion to defining an exit button?
21:05:05kugelI think the majority doesn't use a red background/backdrop in their themes
21:05:11Horschti do
21:05:18Soul-Burnlinuxstb: rebooted again and now it works ./... strange
21:05:25rasherkugel: there's already a dark-blue-on-black theme
21:05:41Horschtanyways, why not make the center button change the color, and the menu button exits?
21:05:58 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
21:05:59Horschtor similar lyout on non-ipods
21:06:19*BigBambi deletes the rant about not all players being iPods
21:06:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:06:32 Join Axio_ [0] (
21:07:34kugelPeople, no need to argue. I'm just gonna implement it
21:08:57rasherkugel: I'm not trying to force you to do anything, I just don't understand
21:09:30 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
21:10:36kugelneither I do understand why are you so keen on having red. As I said, in most cases being in the menues will interfere the night sight of the user
21:10:40gevaertsIf sansa-users want a safer way to test usb, there's a new version that supports the sd card.
21:10:50*karashata doesn't think red light from a backlit LCD screen will be any easier on the eyes than any other colour light from the screen
21:11:30kugelkarashata: it's about that eyes can adapt to the darkness easier if the light was red
21:12:27kugelanyway, I don't understand that also since allmost all flashlights on the marked have white light, not red one
21:12:53BigBambiBoth torches I own have red and white
21:13:02BigBambiBut I'm not too bothered either way
21:13:07karashatasome come with coloured filters that go over the lens of the flashlight
21:13:09kugelI never saw one with red light actually
21:13:26 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:13:53saratogai don't think the color of light has any impact on ones recovery time for night vision
21:14:00*pixelma still votes for green as a second colour option so you can use it as position lights in case you have two colour players at hand ;)
21:14:03saratogain fact i'm pretty sure thats an old urban legend
21:14:05karashatathe backlight from the screen, at least for my mp3 player, is way too bright that a red screen will be all that noticably easier on the eyes
21:14:19rasherI never said I was particularly bothered, I just think it'd be a neat and simple thing to include, but for some reason it's turned into a huge problem
21:14:32karashataheck, with the backlight on, even a *black* screen is still kinda hard on the eyes
21:15:03Soul-BurnWhen browsing the database, how can I lower the time between screens? Every thing I do pops up "searching" for like 3 seconds
21:15:43*Nico_P sees a bikeshed debate :)
21:15:45rashergevaerts: awesome
21:15:49rasherNico_P: well spotted
21:15:56rasherJust commit the damn flashlight already
21:15:58Horschtloading the database into RAM should speed up browsing, Soul-Burn
21:15:59rasherAnd I'll shut up
21:16:54saratogahmm wikipedia says red really is better
21:17:28Soul-BurnHorscht, did that, should I reboot?
21:17:37 Quit n17ikh|Lappy ("Leaving")
21:17:46Horschtno idea if that setting needs a reboot
21:17:50kugelsaratoga: wikipedia isn't safe of urban legends
21:18:22kugelrasher: lol
21:18:27karashatared light is easier on the eyes, yes
21:18:30karashataI'll admit that
21:18:39Horschtsaratoga, honestly? even if there isn't a biological background on it, darker background still *seems* to be easier on the eyes
21:18:51kugelrasher: It's allready dark here, I could just test if red is better for my eyes than white
21:18:55rasherkarashata: you're right, the backlight is too bright for the colour to make a difference
21:19:04karashatathank you...
21:19:20rasherWell, depends.. the illuminated area is quite visibly red
21:19:33rasherbut if you're looking at the screen, it'll be bright
21:19:47karashatayeah, I was thinking if you were looking at the screen
21:20:21karashataI wouldn't think the light given off by the screen to light up whatever you're trying to see would be that hard on your eyes regardless of the colour
21:20:31Horschtlooking into a bright LED and complaining about it's brightness would not be a smart move. i think at the screens brightness, it all depends on where you are looking at
21:20:31karashatasince the light isn't focused at all
21:21:04rasher(with the e200) If you point the light at something with a red screen, the emitted light will be mostly red with some white at the edges
21:21:12 Join Buschel [0] (
21:21:37shotofaddscouldn't you just reduce the brightness for the 'red' screen?
21:21:51karashatathe H10 doesn't have an adjustable backlight
21:21:55rashershotofadds: Then you lose the illuminating properties though
21:21:56shotofaddsah :/
21:22:31TMMshotofadds: hi!
21:23:16shotofaddsTMM: hi, you've been playing with the iAudio 7 right?
21:23:25TMMshotofadds: yes, I was told to talk to you :)
21:23:32rasherkugel: And I just did a test, if that wasn't obvious
21:24:02shotofaddsTMM: i'm not sure what good that will do :)
21:24:30 Quit crope` ("Leaving")
21:25:05TMMshotofadds: well, you're working on the D2 port, right? it appears that you've got a working flash driver? :)
21:25:34shotofaddsyou should be able to re-use the flash driver I'm working on - I the basics are generic to all TCC devices
21:25:49shotofaddsTMM: I wouldn't say 'working' just yet...
21:26:17TMMah, sounds like my LCD driver
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21:28:00TMMshotofadds: how far along are you anyway?
21:29:35 Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul)
21:29:51shotofaddsit's frustratingly close to working: I can read files and display correct-looking contents on the screen; only problem is some files seemingly return junk.
21:30:06shotofaddsleads me to believe my block translation guesswork needs a bit of a re-think
21:30:59 Quit JdGordon|w (" ajax IRC Client")
21:32:33shotofaddsright now my fat driver knowhow isn't good enough to work out what's going on
21:33:06rashergevaerts: latest patch gives me two devices indeed
21:33:43kugelrasher: No it wasn't obvious for me
21:33:55rasherkugel: hopefully it is now
21:34:09gevaertsrasher: it seems to work here. I'm now copying files to the sd card (to test whether my write improvements work)
21:34:49rashergevaerts: Got an error in dmesg when ls'ing the card.. pasted in pm
21:35:03gevaertsrasher: no. I haven't seen that
21:35:14 Join HS^ [0] (
21:35:46rasherAnd here for completeness/the logs
21:35:53 Part HS^
21:36:13rashergevaerts: are the write improvements in your latest patch, or later than that?
21:36:34rashergevaerts: eventually the ls returned and looked correct
21:36:38gevaertsrasher not yet.
21:36:41 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
21:36:43Nico_Plater than the latest patch?
21:37:05rasherNico_P: I meant if he had made the changes after uploading his latest patch
21:37:37rashergevaerts: is sdhc expected to work?
21:38:40rasherDoesn't seem to be
21:38:42gevaertsrasher: I just use ata_read_sectors() and ata_write_sectors(). If those support sdhc it should work
21:39:06rasherI get sdb: unknown partition table, which didn't happen with the regular microsd
21:39:28gevaertsWas it plugged in before connecting ?
21:39:49rasherI unplugged, swapped cards and plugged
21:40:05rasherMount seems cause the device to get reset, then hangs
21:40:26gevaertsI don't have a sdhc card to test, so I can't say much about it.
21:41:11pixelmathe one warning with the patch is know and to be ignored?
21:41:34 Join aneka [0] (n=kvirc@
21:42:17rasherOdd, the pmount magic tries to mount as udf
21:42:19 Quit karashata (" HydraIRC -> <- Go on, try it!")
21:42:25rasherThat's bound not to work I suppose
21:42:35rasherShouldn't hang though
21:42:47gevaertspixelma: what warning ?
21:43:05 Join Domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@
21:43:31pixelmait doesn't sound very important, but I applied the latest patch and compiled for my c200 and got "usbstack/usb_core.c:567: warning: unused parameter 'in'"
21:44:13rasherI think I can safely say that there's some breakage with sdhc - mount has hung, and is in uninterruptable sleep now
21:45:12 Quit Axio_ ()
21:45:14gevaertspixelma: that looks harmless to me. It was there before I started on this though.
21:46:23 Join phill [0] (n=51aef816@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:46:51 Quit ol_schoola ()
21:47:17Soul-BurnI've tried connected my rockboxed ipod to the computer USB but windows can't find a driver for it, therefore, no drive access
21:47:28BigBambiUse the OF
21:47:28*bluebrother wonders what "fish-based targets" are
21:47:43BigBambioriginal firmware
21:47:46Horschtofficial Firmware
21:47:58BigBambioriginal I say!
21:48:02Soul-Burnthere's no drive access for rockbox?
21:48:03gevaertsrasher: maybe put some logf() around the ata_read_sectors() in usb_storage.c ?
21:48:07Horschtorganic i say
21:48:19BigBambiSoul-Burn: Not yet for portalplayer targets
21:48:20scorche|wobsolete ;)
21:48:25linuxstb_'orrible I say...
21:48:27Horschtoooh, burned
21:48:33Soul-Burnk then
21:48:36Horschtscorche|w wins
21:48:40BigBambiAs it says on the front page of, ignore the driver pop up from windows
21:48:42*gevaerts missed an a, and bluebrother uses a font where l and i are similar
21:48:50scorche|wBigBambi: .org
21:49:07bluebrotherah ;-)
21:49:11BigBambiI type it in multiple times per day
21:49:19phillrasher/gavaerts: With a 6GB sdhc I get this: (and the last 3 lines repeat many a time)
21:49:44bluebrotherhmm, "make zip" for the mini complains about a missing vol09-160x128x2.bmp
21:49:46Soul-BurnWhen I tell rockbox to "update the database" does it actually update the ipod db or one of its own?
21:49:58BigBambiIt own
21:50:09BigBambiWe do not touch the itunes one
21:50:19HorschtRockbox can not work with the itunes db at all
21:50:23 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
21:50:26Soul-Burnall for the better
21:50:30BigBambiOne of the pojnts of rockbox is not to have to use itunes (for iPods)
21:50:33bluebrotherwe don't even want to know about the ItunesDB ;-)
21:50:45BigBambiOr any other management software for other players
21:51:06BigBambiSoul-Burn: Updating the iTunes database wouldn't be very useful on say an iriver would it :)
21:51:08Soul-Burnbecause right now I have many files in the itunesdb and I don't feel like re-copying everything :-P
21:51:15Horschtdo other players rely on their prorietary management software as well=
21:51:19pixelmagevaerts: does the card need to be plugged before connecting?
21:51:21BigBambiHorscht: Some do
21:51:42Horschtyou don't have to. The files still contain the taggs, so Rockbox can read them
21:51:43scorche|wSoul-Burn: database will read the files fine (provided they are supported), but we dont touch the *database*
21:51:52pixelmaguess I could just try
21:52:04Horschtjust the files are obfuscated into a weird directory structure and weirdly renamed
21:52:16gevaertspixelma: yes and no. If it isn't plugged in, it doesn't automatically find it on plugin, but running fdisk on it fixes that
21:52:28rasherphill: weird, I didn't get that - also with a 6gb sdhc card
21:52:38*shotofadds knows why the FAT driver doesn't work reliably on the D2.. the NAND driver returns out-of-date copies of some sectors (eg. the FAT..). Now to track down the up-to-date copies...
21:52:49pixelmagevaerts: ok, probably not for me though, I'm on WinXP
21:53:04gevaertspixelma: ok. I don't know there
21:53:11pixelmatrying now with the card plugged before
21:53:31gevaertsI haven't actually tried the sd on windows yet.
21:54:03pixelmahmm... doesn't seem to work yet, also can't access it this way
21:54:30Soul-BurnRockDoom doesn't seem to support ipod wheel scrolling which could be cool for turning. I agree it's not portable to other players, but something might be done?
21:54:37pixelmagevaerts: but reading the internal memory works, didn't dare to try writing yet
21:55:28gevaertspixelma: I'll try in windows sometime next week. I need a usb tracer to see what windows does differently, so that will have to wait.
21:55:28 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
21:55:30rasherpixelma: just hope windows hasn't found something to write (such as a Thumbs.db file)
21:55:34Soul-BurnRockBox gives me a hard time :< I now have to convert all my translated song tags back to unicode, now that its supported :-P
21:56:06bluebrotherSoul-Burn: you can select the codepage for id3 tags
21:56:16pixelmarasher: turned that off in my setup, guess I'll see...
21:56:39rasherpixelma: just be prepared to format, I guess
21:57:07 Part Buschel
21:57:16 Join Arathis [0] (
21:57:42*gevaerts found out that the new sd code doesn't make testing safer.
21:57:52pixelmadisconnected and it still looks good in rockbox but I'll boot into OF and run a chkdsk to make sure
21:57:57 Quit Arathis (Client Quit)
21:58:06gevaertsThe boot loader doesn't see my partition table any more
21:58:16bluebrothersomething like 62k Bytes/s reading from the Ipod is in the expected range?
21:58:36Soul-Burnbluebrother, i have songs in different languages so I had to transcribe them to English. Now that both my portable player and desktop play support unicode, I want to move it back to original languages :)
21:59:06 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:59:08bluebrotherah. Ok, this you can't solve that easily ;-)
21:59:26Soul-Burnit's actually quite easy
21:59:34pixelmaSoul-Burn: you could also use ID3v2.4 tags which support UTF-8 afaik
21:59:35Soul-Burnmp3tagger + freedb
21:59:39gevaertsbluebrother: that's a bit slow. Is that on average, including usb resets ?
22:00:35bluebrotherI just transferred a file and measured the time
22:01:20*shotofadds curses and makes a brew while VMware, samba and windows explorer conspire to freeze up *again*
22:01:21bluebrothersomething like 5 MiB or so.
22:01:21 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
22:01:53pixelmagevaerts, rasher: chkdsk doesn't see any problems on any of the two memories, but I just browsed the internal memory and copied a smaller folder from the c250 to my box :)
22:02:24rasherpixelma: try the other way for a good time
22:02:37rasher(will more than likely break your filesystem)
22:02:42LinusNgevaerts: what's the idea with the 16384*8 transfer buffer size?
22:02:50rasherIn fact, don't try it at all. Not much point at this point I suppose
22:03:09pixelmarasher: I'd only try on the microSD
22:03:46gevaertsLinusN: linux wants to do 128kb transfers, so we need room for that.
22:03:57bluebrotherinteresting. RB gets reported as "Attached scsi disk sda" while the OF discmode gets reported as "Attached scsi removable disk sda"
22:03:59LinusNi see
22:04:41linuxstb_I just tried a "dd" on my ipod (copying the 40MB firmware partition), and it reports 722kB/s
22:04:43XavierGrLinus: Sorry to nag you about it again but do you have any news regarding H100 flashing?
22:04:50XavierGr(or any plans?)
22:04:54LinusNXavierGr: nope, sorry
22:05:36XavierGrLinusN: Should I nag you again in the future, or maybe try it myself at some point?
22:05:47LearWouldn't it be possible to use the plugin or the audio buffer during usb?
22:05:58gevaertslinuxstb_: that sounds pretty good. That's about 60% of the raw bandwidth
22:06:08LinusNXavierGr: you could of course try it yourself :-)
22:06:24rasherLear: both should be available
22:06:37pixelmagevaerts: but it was sooo nice to not have to wait for the stupid "database refresh" :)
22:06:48XavierGrLinusN: Yes of course, it is just that if you plan on doing it yourself at some point I could wait :)
22:07:12bluebrotherhmm, dd-ing reports 550kB/s for me.
22:07:49 Join crzyboyster [0] (n=4b596e09@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:07:53gevaertspixelma: the microsd is not necessarily safe. I don't know why, but I just had to do a firmware restore from recovery mode after testing the sd
22:07:56bluebrothermaybe the disc is fragmented a bit.
22:08:13 Join stripwax [0] (
22:08:38LinusNso do we have any clues about why the file system is trashed?
22:09:16SlasheriXavierGr: it should quite probably work, if you at first flash the bootloader only and keep the OF
22:09:18pixelmagevaerts: I see
22:09:23Soul-BurnAs an iPod user, I am used to a program that automagically syncs my library with the iPod one. Now as the player allows directories and such, what is a recommended program to perform this sync?
22:09:34BigBambiAnything you like
22:09:41crzyboysterMediamonkey works well...
22:10:02bluebrotherSoul-Burn: there is a wiki page that lists some. But you could even use Itunes if you'd like to ;-)
22:10:11Soul-BurnI never ever want to use iTuns
22:10:16XavierGrSlasheri: yes but then flashing won't be complete, only the bootloader will be in flash
22:10:18Soul-BurnI used Anapod
22:10:34Soul-BurniTunes is one of the worst pieces of software i've ever had to use
22:10:35XavierGr(and the OF)
22:10:37 Quit conando (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:10:40 Join conando [0] (
22:10:45SlasheriXavierGr: indeed, but if the BL still functions and can load rockbox, then it's completely safe to flash rest of it
22:10:46gevaertsHow long is formatting from the sansa OF expected to take ?
22:11:09rashergevaerts: it took a while for me.. a few minutes I think
22:11:20XavierGrSlasheri: indeed you have a point
22:11:37pixelmaSlasheri: got a question for you, hopefully easy and quick to answer: does "gather runtime" write to any other files than the .tcd ones even if only temporary?
22:11:41crzyboysterWhen you launch cygwin, are you supposed to have a line printed there saying "bash-3.2$"?
22:11:49Slasheripixelma: nope
22:11:57Slasheripixelma: it writes only to database_idx.tcd
22:12:10pixelmaok, thanks
22:12:10scorche|wcrzyboyster: of course
22:12:11bluebrothercrzyboyster: that doesn't look wrong.
22:12:27LinusNgevaerts: are you sure you are doing the right thing in the SCSI_REQUEST_SENSE case? looks like you might send corrupt data
22:12:31bluebrothernot sure if that's the default prompt on cygwin
22:12:42gevaertsI just found out why my internal flash was gone : don't test write to sd yet ! it writes to the internal flash instead
22:12:58rasherSlasheri: How expensive is gather runtime? I really don't think it should be an option unless there's a significant saving in turning it off :\
22:13:25Slasherirasher: it's not very expensive but could be optimized further to reduce disk access
22:13:39crzyboysterNext step on says to do "svn co svn:// rockbox". Am I just supposed to type that in and press enter?
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22:13:49 Join JdGordon|w [0] (i=836b004b@gateway/web/ajax/
22:13:49rasherI just think being able to turn off "gather runtime data" is useless..
22:13:53scorche|wcrzyboyster: try it out..
22:14:08Slasheriand to Nico_P, there might be still the bug in playback engine preventing gather runtime data to collect information from all tracks
22:14:23*amiconn thinks 'gather runtime data' is useless, hence wants to be able to disable it
22:14:24Slasherithere was entry in FS about that too
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22:14:48Slasheriamiconn: i almost always use that to select tracks to play :)
22:14:48rasheramiconn: option clutter
22:14:51crzyboysterHmm. It spits out a message saying "bash: svn: command not found"
22:14:54Nico_PSlasheri: yeah it's because elapsed is set to 0
22:15:07scorche|wcrzyboyster: then you didnt install it according to our directions
22:15:07SlasheriNico_P: ah, ok. but good that you know about it
22:15:12Nico_Pamiconn: it's possible to disable it AFAIK
22:15:24rasheramiconn: my point is that if the cost is next to none, there's little point in being able to turn it off, even if one of our developers don't use it...
22:15:31LinusNgevaerts: don't you have to use the uncached address when writing to the data structure?
22:15:39pixelmaI experience a weird bug which appears only in certain folders. I'm about 90% sure that these are only albums I listened to when I had "gather runtime data" enabled for a short while of testing
22:15:44amiconnrasher: It writes to disk, hence it costs something
22:15:59SlasheriXavierGr: and i think you just need to try.. and hope LinusN would resurrect the player if everything goes wrong :)
22:16:06amiconnNot only battery, but also e.g. flash wear (on flash targets)
22:16:13crzyboysterI will try out the rockbox part of the cygwin installation again and tell you all what happens...
22:16:26linuxstb_rasher: I think it would make sense to enable it by default, but think the option should stay.
22:16:27rasheramiconn: "something" doesn't mean it's worth making an option for
22:16:39 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
22:16:50*scorche|w sits on the edge of his seat waiting..
22:17:01SlasheriXavierGr: and btw, there is a way to test it quite safely.. the way i did at the very beginning
22:17:07rasheramiconn: you're aware that "flash wear" stopped being an issue 10 years ago?
22:17:08XavierGrSlasheri: well It might also make me buy a bdm wiggler and extend my limited toolboard :P
22:17:25BigBambiWhat is the default? If the database is enabled IMO it would make sense to have gather runtime default on
22:17:27XavierGrSlasheri: please enlighten me
22:17:38Slasherii just flashed two bootloaders on the unit, the second one over the iriver entry point
22:17:50Slasherithen booting original firmware just booted by bootloader
22:17:55Slasheriand that loaded rockbox
22:18:28amiconnrasher: Not entirely true. I know that all modern nand flashes do wear leveling, but the wear is still there
22:18:41gevaertsLinusN: where ?
22:18:43amiconnAnd the wear leveling algorrithm may goof and swap blocks
22:18:43Slasherieven that isn't completely safe if the flashing fails, but it shouldn't fail if the hardware (other than ram) are the same on your player
22:18:56amiconnThat's something I actually experienced on an MMc, more than once
22:19:07rasherCertainly gather runtime should default to on, or users will be confused about the non-functional database entries
22:19:11Slasheriso writing your own version of "OF" cannot destroy your unit
22:19:20scorche|wamiconn: have a look at this when someone brought the same thing up about the OLPC:
22:19:52crzyboysterWhat wiki page were you talking about at > ?
22:19:58LinusNgevaerts: when you fill in the data struct in SCSI_REQUEST_SENSE
22:20:07crzyboyster(To GodEater)
22:20:30rasheramiconn: I'm running a linux computer off a SD card for a year now with zero issues, and many others do the same.. I think the couple of writes of "gather runtime db" are so few that they may be ignored wrt. wear
22:20:45XavierGrSlasheri: well you convinced me, I think I will try it tomorrow (with normal operation, I don't think I could program my own version)
22:20:58stripwaxWho was talking about the resume problem (where on recent builds with 'resume playback' enabled after turning on the playback resumes at the beginning of the track rather than where you left off) ?
22:21:27pixelmaprobably me
22:21:28stripwaxI turned dircache (back) on and now I'm getting it repeatedly - could it be related or is that coincidence
22:21:36BigBambicrzyboyster: It is called initiative
22:21:38scorche|wrasher: and considering that writes dont matter with regards to wear..
22:21:43SlasheriXavierGr: if you want, probably i could make the specially linked "OF" for you
22:21:46amiconnrasher: The wear is not my only concern. And statistical values don't tell much
22:21:56BigBambicrzyboyster: Search for one, if it doesn't exist, make one
22:22:10gevaertsLinusN: you're probably right. I want to get my c250 back to life first though
22:22:10Slasheriif that works, then it should be safe to replace the bootloader
22:22:11rasheramiconn: They ... don't?
22:22:14crzyboysterWhat should I name it?
22:22:16scorche|wamiconn: the point is, wear is not an issue...
22:22:23rasheramiconn: Wear is not an issue at all. Seriously.
22:22:35pixelmastripwax: I don't know whether dircache also influences is but I experience it most obviously on my c200 and there is no dircache
22:22:38XavierGrSlasheri: by all means, if you think it will be safer, I could try that
22:22:39BigBambicrzyboyster: <BigBambi> crzyboyster: It is called initiative
22:22:49amiconnThen tell me why I observed block swaps on one of my MMCs. More than once.
22:22:52SlasheriXavierGr: and if it doesn't work, you still should be able to load rockbox
22:23:10amiconnI simply don't want the db to gather data I will never use.
22:23:19 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 3.0b3pre/2008020104]")
22:23:28crzyboysterHow about "UserConvertedFonts"?
22:23:36n1srasher: will it still do stuff if the db isn't inited?
22:23:36rasheramiconn: you and people like you are the reason the menu is as huge as it is
22:23:36 Quit bluebrother ("bye")
22:23:39Slasheriyep, i would recommed waiting for that. then i can also test the latest svn on my player safely (if i just could compile it due to the incresed binary size)
22:23:55XavierGrSlasheri: I am almost sure that the svn bootloader will indeed work
22:24:00stripwaxpixelma - ok - wonder if it's reproducible in sim
22:24:02XavierGrtrouble might appear when flashing the firmware
22:24:14scorche|wi agree that there should be an option, as i dont want my device gathering useless data, but to use wear as a reason for that is wrong
22:24:16pixelmastripwax: haven't tried yet
22:24:17SlasheriXavierGr: hmm, how are you so sure?
22:24:36rasheramiconn: about your MMC, lord knows - you got a dud? Rockbox bug? What has that got to do with wear anyway?
22:24:39amiconnrasher: I could argue the other way round... people who want runtime data are the reason. I would just remove the feature entirely
22:24:51rasheramiconn: you're a goddamn fool
22:25:00rasheramiconn: and you're not making any sense
22:25:04amiconnBut that's not the point, as I know some people want it
22:25:06Slasheriiirc, there has been a long time when svn was previously turned into a working BL
22:25:06rasheramiconn: leave the feature, remove the menu
22:25:06XavierGrbecause when the H300 bootloader was borked I compiled the bootloader for the H100 too and just like the H300 it coudlnt load rockbox but OF worked fine
22:25:14amiconnSo let there be an option
22:25:28scorche|wrasher: play nice...the option is fine in my opinion too...just the mention of wear as a reason is flawed
22:25:31crzyboysterUserConvertedFonts it is
22:25:36rasheramiconn: If "some people want it" was a valid reason, we'd have 8 million options
22:25:41SlasheriXavierGr: hmm, how long ago that was?
22:25:46rasherscorche|w: but his reasoning is broken, and he should be able to see that
22:26:00amiconnrasher: C'mon, your eaxaggerating by far
22:26:00rasherAs opposed to the 7 million options we have now..
22:26:07scorche|win regards to wear, yes...but not the others
22:26:16rasherI thought we *wanted* to remove the option-clutter?
22:26:17amiconnIt's okay to have options for features not all user want
22:26:24XavierGrSlasheri: well yes it must have been around 14973
22:26:27SlasheriXavierGr: if the svn version works indeed, then there shouldn't be a big risk about the flashing plugin if used properly
22:26:27rasherNot if there's no benefit
22:26:32rasherThen it's just useless clutter
22:26:34amiconnThere is a benefit
22:26:35XavierGrand my H100 is already flashed with that revision
22:26:41 Part rasher
22:26:54scorche|wwhy should i gather stuff i wouldnt....arg
22:26:57gevaertsMy c250 says "Not enough space. Please free memory." as a response to sansa.fmt. Does anyone have a suggestion ?
22:26:58linuxstb_What exactly does the gather runtime data feature involve?
22:27:01stripwaxkeeping the option, defaulting to 'on', not viable?
22:27:05Slasherii wouldn't too concerned about the flashing at all, just that the bootloader could fail the initialization
22:27:38amiconnI never want that runtime data. Disabling the option reduces disk writes, hence wear on flash targets, battery consumption in general, and it also reduces the risk of disk corruption due to a bug in the code.
22:28:02scorche|wamiconn: wrong...writes impose no wear...ERASES do
22:28:08Slasherilinuxstb_: updating playcount, and total playtime to the DB. And generating autoscore and loading user track rating from DB
22:28:14stripwaxamiconn - do you use the DB actively?
22:28:23amiconnscorche: Yes, and writes *have* to erase from time to time
22:28:36scorche|wamiconn: did you read my link?
22:28:38amiconnstripwax: Nope, I almost never use it
22:28:38linuxstb_Slasheri: When is that info written to disk?
22:28:50JdGordon|w"amiconn It's okay to have options for features not all user want " <- which is the same as adding options which some people do want... so why was there so much argument about adding options to make the quickscreen customiuzable?
22:28:55amiconnBut I still have it enabled, because I use it occasionally for checking tags
22:29:01Nico_Plinuxstb_: the unbuffer callback writes data to the disk
22:29:08Slasherilinuxstb_: a few seconds delayed until the last unbuffering call to the db engine
22:29:16XavierGrSlasheri: well off course things can be vastly different from 14973, but theoritically I could already flash my unit with that revision too
22:29:19pixelmaJdGordon: because of the customisation part, it's not a new discussion
22:29:29stripwaxamiconn - ok, so in your case you could turn the option off, perhaps. but for others enabling the DB (which is also disabled by default), it turns on the gather runtime option too?
22:30:03Slasherilinuxstb_: in future, the write commit interval could be reduced to once in a half hour, or to shutdown when DB is loaded to ram
22:30:43pixelmastripwax: as I understand it's not about the default, just the suggestion to remove the option completely and hence the possibility to turn it off
22:30:45SlasheriXavierGr: would you like to show the patch you made before trying?
22:30:57 Quit crzyboyster ("CGI:IRC")
22:31:02linuxstb_Does anyone apart from rasher think the option should be removed?
22:31:06amiconnscorche: I know how flash chips work, believe me
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22:31:31stripwaxpixelma - understood - was just airing my opinion that defaulting to On makes sense
22:31:54BagderI'm for it defaulting to on
22:32:01amiconnSlasheri: That doesn't help if the db is not loaded to ram, which (1) can't be done on low-mem targets and (2) may not be wanted by the user
22:32:07linuxstb_Bagder; Me too.
22:32:25n1sThe problem with removing it IMHO is that once the db is inited you're screwed unless you manually delete the files...
22:32:30amiconnJdGordon: Please note that I was *not* against customisable quickscreens per se.
22:32:35stripwaxSlasheri - would need to ensure that if you go to the db to select 'favourite tracks' it keeps up to date between your write intervals ...
22:32:56JdGordon|wamiconn: just the bin increase from adding said options?
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22:33:11SSnake@linuxstb : did u check the bug in dict.c?
22:33:22Slasheriamiconn: indeed, but if it's possible and user wants to have db in ram due to the faster access time, then there is no reason not to do it (and of course keep compatability when db is not in ram)
22:33:26scorche|wamiconn: and you know how rarely the devices are written to/erased?....that link is from a regular computer operating system saying wear is a non-issue...with MUCH more writes...even if you had your device constantly on gathering runtime data, im sure the flash would last at least 15 years
22:33:27stripwaxn1s - which reminds me - if I manually delete the files *from rockbox* file browser, while db is enabled, then shutting down causes an ATA panic..
22:33:56amiconnJdGordon: I was just annoyed by the way they were introduced, in a single commit together with the viewport conversion
22:33:59linuxstb_SSnake: No. I've never used dict.c, so don't really want to change it.
22:34:13amiconnPlus the fact that it's a hidden config
22:34:22Slasheristripwax: that would be no problem when implemented properly (ram db is updated in realtime, disk version of the db committed only in intervals)
22:34:45amiconnAnd the sloppy addition, not taking targets without quickscreen into account
22:34:57XavierGrSlasheri: it basically disables the crc check in the flash_plugin and defines HAVE_FLASHED_ROCKBOX and HAVE_EEPROM in config-h100.h
22:35:00stripwaxSlasheri - only if loaded to ram, no?
22:35:03amiconnThat was fixed before the reversal, even
22:35:09Slasheristripwax: yes
22:35:12 Quit phill ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:35:31stripwaxSlasheri - my concern is that, if db isn't loaded to ram, it would still need to work properly
22:35:38XavierGrSlasheri: and of course compile the flash plugin for H100
22:35:50Slasheristripwax: it still works properly, it's just slower and consumes more resources
22:36:18SlasheriXavierGr: checking
22:36:53linuxstb_What about also defaulting the database to load-to-RAM (on appropriate targets) ?
22:37:05Bagdergets my vote
22:37:09n1sSSnake: that bug is reported in FS #7740 (also present in chessbox)
22:37:12Bagderwho don't want that?
22:37:45linuxstb_And the final one - enabling dircache...
22:37:49 Quit JdGordon|w (" ajax IRC Client")
22:38:06stripwaxhow much ram does load-to-ram take away from buffer?
22:38:07Bagderyes, I think that makes sense to the majority of users
22:38:25Bagderand I can live with it even though I don't care about dircache
22:38:32scorche|wthat sounds like a good idea...the database/dircache relationship is not veryintuitive at all currently
22:38:49stripwaxOh, reminds me - does dircache cause thrashing at startup when enabled or is that my imagination?
22:38:56 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
22:38:56SlasheriXavierGr: i would wish a good luck to you, i couldn't imagine the flashing would fail
22:39:03kugelI vote for runtime, load to ram and dircache to default to on
22:39:07 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
22:39:12SlasheriXavierGr: i would wish a good luck to you, i couldn't imagine the flashing would fail
22:39:26*stripwax echo echos
22:39:35kugelIn the german forum where I'm around, people just keep asking why those database entries don't work
22:39:36SlasheriXavierGr: and if it does, make sure NOT to shutdown your player or boot it
22:39:40pixelmastripwax: I believe GodEater said it would make that thrashing worse (can't comment on myself)
22:39:45*shotofadds is almost certain the D2 swaps blocks on pretty much every write; which could make the write implementation 'interesting' if we need to mimic it
22:39:54kugelsame on a-b-i
22:40:17SSnake@n1s: i see, there's also the fix
22:40:17linuxstb_shotofadds: Well, if you want to dual-boot I guess you have to mimic it...
22:41:06amiconnshotofadds: The wear leveling algorithm is part of the flash chip controller. If it works properly, its effect should never be visible at the interface
22:41:17XavierGrSlasheri: thanks for the tips, we will probably know by tomorrow (or should I wait for your bootloader trick)?
22:41:23gevaertsDoes anyone know of a way to recover a sansa c200 that boots in OF, but can't access it's flash because the partition table is totally gone ? sansa.fmt doesn't work, usb doesn't work
22:41:26shotofaddslinuxstb_: to a certain extent. there's nothing stopping us just replacing the written data in-situ. whether that affects wear is down the flash chip I guess
22:41:30 Quit nicktastique ("Leaving")
22:41:32amiconnBut it can happen if the algorithm has a bug, or if there too many worn out blocks
22:41:50SlasheriXavierGr: if you think the svn BL will work, i don't think that would be necessary
22:41:56kugelgevaerts: Have you tried updating the OF?
22:42:08n1sgevaerts: afaik the e200 unbricking methods should work
22:42:08Slasheriand it wouldn't help if the flashing fails
22:42:21XavierGrSlasheri: ah okay well I could try with revision 14973 then
22:42:31gevaertskugel: yes. That's how I got the OF back.
22:42:40XavierGrbecause I know that it works, I tested it myself
22:43:03 Join JdGordon|w [0] (i=836b004b@gateway/web/ajax/ the of partition working or not?
22:43:36*shotofadds checks the samsung datasheet again
22:43:43linuxstb_gevaerts: Can you enter UMS mode in the OF?
22:43:49gevaertskugel: of is working, but it doesn't want to format it's filesystem.
22:44:51 Part LinusN
22:45:10kugelgevaerts: note that sansa of does default to mtp, I used think usb isn't working because of that today
22:45:14gevaertslinuxstb_: It is in ums mode, but plugging it in gives
22:46:04gevaertsIt says it has 1090921368 MB free
22:46:09linuxstb_gevaerts: That looks odd... I guess you'll need to try the e200tool recovery procedure
22:46:54gevaertslinuxstb_: ok. That's the one documented on ?
22:46:58 Join Arathis [0] (
22:47:28SlasheriXavierGr: wait a moment, i will still check a few things
22:47:40 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
22:47:47kugelYou need a i2c rom dump of an c200, don't you?
22:47:48XavierGrsure, I don't have my player with me, I wil have to do that tomorrow
22:48:10linuxstb_gevaerts: No, here -
22:48:21SlasheriXavierGr: i just meant that if you leave before i have checked those, don't try :)
22:48:23Bagderkugel: not if he can boot the of
22:48:27 Join perrikwp [0] (i=982165ed@gateway/web/ajax/
22:48:27*shotofadds figures "reliable floating-gate technology" has to be a good thing, "Endurance: 5K program/erase cycles" probably less so.
22:50:04*preglow votes for default runtime gathering on
22:50:22preglowit makes sense for common db features to be on by default
22:50:31preglowi'd much rather remove the whole option, but hey
22:50:38preglowi never use the db
22:50:41 Part SSnake
22:50:51linuxstb_preglow: You mean remove the whole db then? ;)
22:51:07preglowno, i like the db, i just don't use it
22:51:27preglowmy usage patterns aren't compatible with playlists/databases
22:51:32preglowbut i see just fine how nifty they can be
22:51:33*scorche|w removes the entire option and knows of a few others who do too :)
22:52:06preglowbut i definitely want to remove some options...
22:52:24n1skill the EQ !!11
22:52:28preglowhaha, go ahead
22:52:35preglowi don't use that either
22:52:54 Join Kage [0] (
22:53:22Soul-Burndamn it's so fun
22:53:32n1snah, the "users" like it
22:53:36preglow'bout the only rockbox work i've ever done that benefits me is on codecs and wakeup alarm :P
22:53:40preglowhaha, that and the ipod port, of course
22:54:08Soul-BurnI got the ipod for the nice interface and the general stability... and now I can play stuff I never could :-P
22:54:18preglowi got it to port rockbox to it...
22:54:22preglownever did use it much
22:54:30Soul-BurnI preferred mp3s to oggs because of this
22:54:38preglowporting was fun, though
22:54:48SlasheriXavierGr: it should be ok to try
22:55:06amiconnSeriously, I can't see any option right now that could be removed (in general I mean. From my own usage patterns, I know about a dozen features that could be removed)
22:55:20XavierGrSlasheri: thanks, I will keep you informed :)
22:55:39SlasheriXavierGr: lets hope it works :)
22:55:42amiconnThere are a few things which are available in more than one place right now, which could be simplified
22:56:11amiconnE.g. the database init is both in settings (where it doesn't belong imo, as it isn't a setting), and in the context menu of the 'Database' menu item
22:56:41amiconnAnd the sw eq settings are both standard settings, and available in the graphical eq screen
22:57:47*petur spotted a nice FS bug: dircache rename is always done regardless of the actual rename success/failure
22:58:24amiconnThe former could be removed too, if the graphical eq screen would be improved better adapt to varying font sizes and made more intuitive to use in general
22:58:30*n1s never uses the dircache either and thus misses out on many of the fancier bugs
22:58:36preglowsome quick choices would be "pause on headphone unplug", "play selected first", "backlight on hold"
22:58:41JdGordon|wthe graphical eq could be moved to a plugin
22:58:54preglowand many of the ui related ones should go in a theme file, imho, and not be adjustable from the menu
22:58:55n1samiconn: also if the graphical screen would spek
22:59:02amiconnYes, that too
22:59:32preglowsafetydan started sketching a new one
22:59:37amiconnpreglow: I actually use 'backlight on hold' these days on some of my targets...
22:59:38preglowi'd love to cut out everything but the graphical one
22:59:39peturn1s: dircache makes the h1x0/h3x0 usable because of the spinup time
23:00:02pixelmathe graphical eq is still only 4/5 visible on the c200 screen... (ok, beaton about safetydan...)
23:00:27n1spetur: mine works fine without it, but I am usually like: press play and put it in my pocket and 10 seconds later music is playing...
23:00:33preglowi'm afraid i just can't be bothered to do gui work :/
23:00:45gevaertsStill no progress. I ran e200tool recover, and reinstalled the firmware. OF still boots, and still has totally incorrect info about its filesystem. I'm trying again to format from the OF.
23:00:58amiconnJdGordon: Core features should not be moved into plugins. That also applies to its settings
23:01:10preglowoh, and "cuehseet support" is redundant, but i believe nico_p works on that
23:01:12amiconnI say that even though I do not use the eq at all
23:01:39 Quit n1s ()
23:01:47amiconnpreglow: The cuesheet support option is not redundant as long as it uses a static allocation when enabled
23:01:54preglowamiconn: yep, and that's going
23:02:01amiconnAlso on hwcodec?
23:02:06preglowwell, i hope so
23:02:16preglowbut i doubt it, of course...
23:02:22amiconnHwcodec doesn't use playback.c, hence doesn't use MoB (yet)
23:02:26JdGordon|wamiconn: well, having 2 ways to set the settings isnt needed, the gui takes up MUCH more bin size and isnt _Really_ needed which is why I say it could be moved
23:02:39preglowlets not start moving core features to plugins
23:02:41JdGordon|wof course, the text versions could be removed complety
23:02:50preglowJdGordon|w: not yet, they need to be voice ui-ized first
23:03:07preglowJdGordon|w: geh, that is, the graphical screen
23:03:08JdGordon|wperfect... that forces someone to fix that
23:03:15gevaertsAnyway, if anyone wants to continue testing the usb patch, I uploaded a new version that should fix the bug that caused it to write to internal flash instead of SD, and has some more safeties on write, so data corruption should be less
23:03:16amiconnThe gui takes more binsize, sure. But if its more intuitive and convennient, it should be preferred
23:03:18 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
23:03:29 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
23:03:37 Quit MethoS-- ("Konversation terminated!")
23:04:05preglowi just don't think we should go down the route of putting core stuff in plugins, i know i'd be _very_ annoyed if random settings started spinning up the disk
23:04:28amiconnJdGordon: Btw, regarding your green delta fetish comment, I'm not against adding features even if they increase binsize. I'm just very annoyed about carelessly doing so (e.g. by adding dead code)
23:04:56amiconnAlso, we should try to keep binsize down. There's already enough bloatware out there, we should not add to that
23:05:15preglowi actually kinda like cabbiev2
23:05:28preglowit's not a bad theme
23:05:33Nico_Pthat reminds me of scaling (~4.5K), but there seemed to be a consensus on it
23:05:48JdGordon|wamiconn: of course, the mesage was obviously out of line, and I knew about it the whole time anyway and was going to fix it.. but regardless.. i do get the impression that alot of nice features are rejected purely becuase delta increase
23:05:59preglowlooked to me like the scaling patch could be cut down somewhat
23:06:07BagderJdGordon|w: I disagree with that conclusion
23:06:12preglowme too
23:06:17amiconnIf you remember, I recently added the greyscale blit function to the core, which meant a few 100 bytes binsize increase even on archos
23:06:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:06:43pixelmaJdGordon|w: do you have an example? I'm not aware of one.
23:06:46JdGordon|wa few 100 bytes and 1K+ are completly different
23:07:10Nico_PJdGordon|w: I can't think of features that were rejected because of binsize either
23:07:11amiconnThe 'few' were something in the range of 300..400 iirc
23:07:39JdGordon|wpixelma: I know there were cases.. im trying to remember them
23:08:04amiconnAnd btw, the option to disable cuesheet support adds a few bytes by itself. But it pays off because it saves ~18KB of ram when disabled, which is ~1.5% of the whole buffer on archos
23:08:42JdGordon|walso, even when the feautres are added, there is the whole complaining about the big red after the fact
23:08:46amiconnIf cuesheet support can be made to only allocate ram if it actually encounters a cuesheet, then I'm of course for removing that option
23:08:48JdGordon|wwhich is just as annoying
23:09:11BagderJdGordon|w: frankly, I don't see that very much either
23:09:18*amiconn wonders where tomal went, btw :/
23:09:21BagderI think you're reading amiconn's words too much
23:09:45Nico_Pamiconn: what did tomal code?
23:10:01amiconnHe's the iFP7xx guy
23:10:09Nico_Pah yes
23:10:40pixelmabut even if there were no low mem targets, I think it's good to think twice before adding too much bin size - it's just that I don't want to see boot and shutdown times like the ones with the Sansa OF
23:10:53 Quit merbanan ("Leaving")
23:10:57pixelmaexaggerating a bit here :)
23:11:17amiconnlowmem is always relative... there once was someone who said 640KB would be enough for everyone
23:11:49 Join n17ikh [0] (
23:12:10pixelmaJdGordon|w: and btw. there are still 2 targets that have rombox ;)
23:12:37amiconnArchos Player, Ondio SP, and iriver H1x0
23:13:01*shotofadds twiddles his thumbs while the D2 seaches for a copy of the FAT table that isn't out-of-date. Good job the battery appears to charge in usb boot mode :)
23:13:06pixelmadidn't think about the H100
23:13:15amiconnSoon to be complemented by the plain H100, as it seems
23:13:34 Join Aevum [0] (
23:13:58*amiconn thinks rombox should also be possible on the cf based iaudios
23:14:00pixelmapreglow: oi, I had the backlight suddenly turning on and not turning off until I push a button on my M5 too, right now...
23:14:14amiconnEven fairly simple, as rombox could just replace our bootloader in that case
23:14:25Nico_Pfor targets where rombox is possible, wouldn't it be good to separate *some* features from the core?
23:14:29amiconnThe cowon loader is still there anyway
23:15:12 Quit n17ikh|Lappy ("Leaving")
23:15:14Aevumwhats so difficult about the D2
23:15:20Aevumwhy is the firmware so horrid ?
23:15:30Bagderall OFs are
23:15:37Aevumi dont think theres another cowon player that so bad
23:15:58Aevumfirmware wise i mean, the sound quality and functions are still superb for its player class
23:16:19preglowpixelma: i wonder why that happens...
23:16:22Bagderand I maintain that there are no good OFs
23:16:31Aevumofficial firmwares ?
23:16:39shotofaddsAevum: it's pretty good, but has issues with ogg track numbers, and has issues with SD cards for some people
23:16:54shotofaddsplus I just wanted to write some code for it :o)
23:17:14Aevumi hear it shares alot of hardware with the samsung P2
23:17:25Bagderthe reason is of course simply because the companies don't spend enough money and time on their firmwares
23:17:30*amiconn also doesn't know a device with a good OF
23:17:36Bagderbecause the audience doesn't care
23:17:38stripwaxRio Karma
23:17:45krazykitdammit, stripwax beat me to it
23:17:51Bagderthat may be one that sucks somewhat less
23:18:05amiconnBagder: Yes, plus this way they can always tell the customer to just buy their next product, as that one will be better
23:18:09Bagderbut I think all karma owners over-gloryfies it
23:18:16amiconn(while in fact it won't be better, just newer)
23:18:39Bagderamiconn: true
23:18:44Aevumim starting to think that the rio karma in the mind of these people isnt the rio karma that was actually manufactured
23:18:53Bagderbut the fact is that if customers would care and let their money show, companies would change
23:19:11 Join rasher [50] (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher)
23:19:12BagderAevum: that's my view of it too
23:19:14AevumBagder, i think that the itards kind of killed that
23:19:16stripwaximho the Karma OF was better than the Karma hardware (reliability wise, at least..)
23:19:20amiconnYeah, but customers have no real choice, as all companies are essentially doing the same
23:19:27shotofaddsAevum: looks like they're similar, yes, but the P2 lcd is unknown. a port will be difficult unless some information is available.
23:19:27Bagder... not ever having seen nor tried one myself .)
23:19:42Aevumthe ipod is proof you can make an absolutly crap product and have it sale like hotcakes with the right marketing
23:19:51Bagderamiconn: yes, but the are _some_ variations, for example on codec support etc
23:20:15linuxstb_Is the Samsung P2 also touchscreen?
23:20:30Aevumthe 5th gen was the first ipod who's specs were actually close to the offerings from cowon, iriver and sony
23:20:47*stripwax agrees
23:20:57advlaptop2019linuxstb_, yea it is
23:20:58amiconnYes, those variations don't include usability and flexibility (e.g. quick boot, not forcing the customer to do things exactly like the manufacturer wants, etc)
23:21:13Aevumi know that my friend bought a 4th gen, and i bought a NW-HD5
23:21:22Bagderamiconn: no, I'm just meaning that not even the variations that exist are a factor to customers
23:21:41Aevumhis 4th gen is long gone, my NW-HD5 is still serving, and i plan to change the hard drive and the battery as soon as i get it back
23:21:45Bagderat least not in a direction that I like ;-)
23:21:45amiconnAevum: Not really, imo. Only a few ipods can record, and there is no ipod which includes a radio
23:22:03amiconnAnd for recording, you need a special adapter, there is no built-in microphone etc etc
23:22:15Aevumamiconn, i dont consider recording crucial for a DAP
23:22:40amiconnNot crucial, no, but additional flexibility
23:23:10amiconnAnd many other dpas can record and have microphones and radios.
23:23:29Aevumi make 5 demands of a dap, good sound cuality, good file support, 20+ hour battery life, UMS and normal usb/mini usb plug
23:23:46amiconnThe only plus the ipod has (starting with the 5th gen) is that it shows how thin these things can be made today
23:24:10Aevumthe 5th gen was the pinnacle of ipod development,
23:24:25stripwax160gb 6th gen is a good device.
23:24:26amiconnOh, and that the colour displays (also starting with 5th gen and nano) aren't of the pitch-black type
23:24:38Aevumthe classic might have better battery life, but sound quality has suffered and theres been no real advance in features
23:25:08Aevumthe 80gb classic, if it was rockboxable, i would pick up one tommorow
23:25:10amiconnSound quality of daps seems to have suffered overall with every new generation, it seems
23:25:26Aevumactually, samsung and sony are improving
23:25:26amiconnThat's one reason why I still use my ages-old archos recorder that much
23:25:35Aevumcowon mantains its quality
23:25:38Aevumiriver, never tried
23:25:44amiconnThat MAS3587F simply has excellent sound quality
23:25:56pixelmapreglow: just happened again and if I counted correctly it turned on as if "caption backlight" was set (set backlight timeout before track change) - that option is turned off though
23:26:02*shotofadds would still be using his H110 if he didn't have to keep soldering the stop button back on
23:26:06Aevumthe P2 is basicly the best nano class flash player on sale today
23:26:19preglowpixelma: ahh, that might be it
23:26:19Aevumfallowed by the A81x and the U5
23:26:24preglowpixelma: but with me it also happened with no music playing
23:26:40Bagder"best" again then ignoring the software only speaking hw...
23:27:13Aevumthe sony firmware is very restricive, its UMS but suffers from poor format support
23:27:28Aevumthe P2 has amazing sound quality, and the bluetooth integration with cellphones is good
23:27:40pixelmapreglow: ok, I'll have an eye on it
23:27:48Aevumand the U5 as always is awaiting cowon to make a decent firmware for it
23:28:41Aevuma 16gb U5 with APE, OGG and flac support (on top of normal mp3, wma and wav) would be the perfect nano class player
23:29:07amiconnApe is a very demanding format...
23:29:18amiconn(cpu power wise)
23:29:29Aevumi know
23:29:54Aevumevery time i play a song in ape on my D2, my player becomes somewhat unresponsive and the display slows to a crawl
23:30:04Aevumprobobly consumes 3x power
23:30:18amiconnRockbox supports ape, but it's only realtime on the coldfire targets and the gigabeat, and even there not all compression levels
23:30:56amiconn-c5000 will probably stay unplayable on anything embedded for quite some time
23:31:01 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
23:31:10Aevumplayers i wish were rockboxable
23:31:12 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
23:31:16Aevumthe ipod classic
23:31:18linuxstb_Aevum: Do you know what APE compression levels the D2 can handle?
23:31:21Aevumthe cowon A3
23:31:33Aevumdont know,
23:31:43Aevumi just get ape lossless, but not sure on the compression level
23:31:56Aevumwhat i do know is that this is my last cowon player
23:32:20amiconnThe coldfire targets can play up to -c2000 (-c3000 may become possible with some serious optimisation work). The gigabeats can play up to -c3000
23:32:57Aevumunless they start making something that works
23:33:24BagderAevum: port rockbox to them instead
23:33:39amiconnThe coldfire based cowon daps are quite nice devices
23:33:52Aevumits easier to get support to port to ipods
23:34:02amiconnLook at the battery runtime of the M5L (especially with rockbox) :)
23:34:07gevaertsformatting this c250 from OF fails after 20 minutes (it turns off)
23:34:12BagderAevum: "support" from where?
23:34:30Aevumprobobly 200 ipods are sold for every cowon
23:34:34Aevumtherefore more people have ipods
23:34:50Aevumtherefore theres probobly more people interested in rockbox for the ipod
23:35:02Aevumi hate ipods, but im willing to use a classic if theres rockbox for it
23:35:09linuxstb_Yes, but interest doesn't help...
23:35:22amiconnBut that doesn't mean there are 200x more people who have the clue to help porting rockbox
23:35:33Bagderthe cowons are bound to be much easier to port to than the recent ipods
23:35:43amiconnI think it's similar to our golden quote regarding WMA....
23:37:17Aevumthe X5L works great with rockbox from what i hear
23:39:10Aevumwell, so much for statistics
23:39:54 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:40:50 Join knittl [0] (n=knittl@
23:42:54gevaertsIs there a way to brick a c200 from a half-working OF so the recovery will work ?
23:43:56Bagderunbrick you mean?
23:44:00 Quit jcollie ("Ex-Chat")
23:44:26gevaertsBagder: I tried that. It seems it still works too well for the "normal" unbricking methods to change anything
23:44:46linuxstb_gevaerts: So have you tried the e200tool options?
23:44:49 Quit knittl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:44:51Bagderso recovery mode works?
23:46:48gevaertsrecovery mode works, manufacturer mode works, OF thinks it works, but OF has a wrong idea about flash capacity (some huge number), UMS doesn't work properly (it shows errors on the linux side), and formatting (from OF or sansa.fmt) stops after a while
23:47:14Bagderdid you try the sansa.fmt from recovery mode?
23:47:52gevaertsyes. It either stops after a while, or says "Not enough space. Please free memory."
23:48:25JdGordon|wyou could dd /dev/zero to the device and pull it back out from manufac mode... I did that once accidently
23:48:28Bagderso what if you wipe the partition info completely first?
23:48:47gevaertsI can't. UMS doesn't do enough for that
23:49:22 Quit Kage ("return(EXIT_SUCCESS);")
23:49:52 Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε")
23:50:57linuxstb_gevaerts: So have you tried the e200tool options?
23:51:02 Quit ender` (" All power corrupts, but we need electricity.")
23:51:37gevaertslinuxstb_: I tried e200tool recover, but that didn't make a difference.
23:51:42 Join stormbreaker [0] (n=44bc416f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:51:43gevaertsShould I try i2c stuff ?
23:51:52Bagderno, since that just loads and runs recovery mode
23:52:09Bagdermore or less
23:52:19linuxstb_Did you reinstall the Sansa bootloader?
23:52:21 Part Aevum ("I was raided by the FBI and all I got to keep was this lousy quit message!")
23:52:31gevaertslinuxstb_: yes
23:52:53linuxstb_All these different recovery modes, and it's still broken...
23:53:11stormbreakeris there a way to edit the ipodpatcher.exe file so that my bootloader for my 5.5G ipod video will automatically boot in the apple firmware?
23:53:28gevaertsIs it technically possible to write to flash from e200tool ?
23:53:38 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:54:02stormbreakeri know i could use the ipod linux bootloader, but i'd like to avoid that if at all possible
23:54:04linuxstb_gevaerts: All e200tool does it make use of the Sansa's USB boot mode and upload a program to RAM to execute.
23:54:49gevaertsSo I could (in principle) write a tool that wipes the partition table
23:55:05linuxstb_Yes. The e200R install tool does something similar.
23:55:17 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
23:55:26linuxstb_We upload an app onto the device which patches the bootloader stored in the hidden (not visible via UMS) firmware partition.
23:56:05 Quit stormbreaker (Client Quit)
23:58:54linuxstb_I guess a nice utility would be a UMS driver which you upload onto the device...

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