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#rockbox log for 2008-02-28

00:00:01gevaertsYes. That would probably provide the most similar system
00:00:06 Quit davina ("GNU/Linux the free alternative to Windows")
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00:01:24 Quit keanu (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:01:48amiconnHmm, now got one single reset on my H10 (after ~15 minutes of playing music via usb)
00:02:04stripwaxCan we update the diskmode to dump out pcf/devenv registers via serial ?
00:02:44*stripwax half expects diskmode already has some serial output
00:03:13pixelmaFebs: there's also a microphone hole at the left side (top -> bottom: microphone, lanyard thing, volume socket. And maybe mention which is volume up and volume down (and they are two buttons but feel like one, worth mentioning?
00:03:22amiconnThe G5.5 rom has some serial console code in it
00:03:41stripwaxconsole? wowzer
00:03:44amiconnBut so far nobody could figure out how it is possible to run it
00:04:46 Quit petur ("gonne")
00:08:47amiconnstripwax: "Bootloader UI Shell, Build Sep 10 2006, 19:49:21"
00:09:25amiconnMini also has that, just an older version...
00:10:37amiconnSeems to understand commands like 'alias', 'checksum', 'dump', 'echo', 'run' etc
00:11:00*kushal_12_27_200 is back again
00:11:13 Join japc [0] (
00:11:15stripwaxWouldn't be surprised if it's enabled by a specific resistance in the accessory pin..
00:11:24 Join tvelocity [0] (
00:11:37Febspixelma: thanks. I'll probably not have a chance to revise it today, but maybe I can get it done tomorrow.
00:12:14pixelmathank you too :)
00:12:19kushal_12_27_200gevaerts, the screen says "Press any key to shutdown. 96 kB left". Is it done?
00:12:25amiconnIt features some built-in help on parameters as well
00:12:39 Join kaptenbalja [0] (
00:12:58gevaertskushal_12_27_200: yes. Unplug the cable and press a key.
00:14:13gevaertskushal_12_27_200: now turn it back on. I expect the blue leds will light up, but nothing else. If that happens, plug it in
00:14:26kushal_12_27_200yes, just as expected
00:14:34gevaertskushal_12_27_200: Do you still have e200tool-mac ?
00:15:30kushal_12_27_200oo yes I do
00:16:02 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:16:10gevaertsOK. Then run "sudo ./e200tool-mac recover pribootLoader.rom"
00:16:47 Part kaptenbalja
00:17:09 Join Bensawsome_ [0] (
00:18:04Bensawsome_hey everybody
00:18:49kushal_12_27_200it says command not found
00:19:25stripwaxkushal_12_27_200 - you're running it from where e200tool-mac is?
00:19:38gevaertskushal_12_27_200: try "chmod +x e200tool-mac"
00:19:38kushal_12_27_200yes, desktop
00:19:59gevaertsThen try "sudo ./e200tool-mac recover pribootLoader.rom" again
00:20:40kushal_12_27_200length write error, operation not permitted
00:21:09 Join keanu [0] (n=keanu@unaffiliated/keanu)
00:21:22 Quit keanu|afk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:21:38gevaertsUnplug the sansa, turn it off, and put it back to manufacturer mode the normal way (hold switch on, and press select while powering on)
00:22:00Bensawsome_i have a sansa :D
00:22:14stripwaxamiconn - do you happen to know where LinusN obtained his ipod serial cable? I was going to construct one but just thought, what I *really* want is a combined USB & serial cable...
00:22:21 Quit ender` (" NOTICE: Thank you for noticing this new notice. Your noticing it has been noted. And will be reported to the authorities.")
00:22:51*amiconn has no idea
00:23:15gevaertskushal_12_27_200: When you've done that, plug it back in
00:23:37gevaertskushal_12_27_200: OK. Now try "sudo ./e200tool-mac recover pribootLoader.rom" again
00:23:43kushal_12_27_200I also turned the hold off before plugging in this time
00:23:44*amiconn might be on to something....
00:24:17kushal_12_27_200Length write error (-1, Operation not permitted)
00:24:22Bensawsome_wait ur using a mac to do it?
00:24:26*stripwax can't wait to find out what ... :)
00:24:40gevaertskushal_12_27_200: can you paste the full output somewhere ?
00:24:43kushal_12_27_200yes, bensawsome_
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00:25:56 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:25:58 Quit Febs ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
00:26:13amiconnSome most probably usb related code in the ipod roms (checked both mini and g5.5) fiddles with GPO32 bit 9
00:28:16kushal_12_27_200Did it work>
00:29:24gevaertskushal_12_27_200: Maybe something went wrong in putting it in manufacturer mode. Try that again, and run the command very soon aterwards (type it in or paste it before plugging in, and press enter after plugging in)
00:29:59gevaertsamiconn: that looks interesting. I guess you'll soon know more
00:31:18gevaertskushal_12_27_200: I seem to remember that waiting too long between plugging it in and typing the command sometimes made it fail
00:31:25 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
00:32:14kushal_12_27_200same error again
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00:34:53 Quit Bensawsome_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:34:54gevaertskushal_12_27_200: it should work. Try again a few more times. Make sure you turn off the sansa every time
00:35:07kushal_12_27_200yes, i tried it again, and it worked this time. pasting result in pastebin
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00:36:12gevaertsOK. Then you should now see some output on the sansa screen.
00:36:31kushal_12_27_200the screen is off
00:36:50kushal_12_27_200can I try once more?
00:36:58 Join h3av3n [0] (n=andrew@
00:37:03h3av3nhello everyone
00:37:17gevaertsTry "sudo mount -t msdos /dev/disk1 /tmp/sansa" If it doesn't work, try again from the start
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00:38:34h3av3nOk, of course like, I think, many others, I come with a question too... My question is: will rockbox work on non-apple ipods? (clones remakes and this like that)
00:38:45krazykith3av3n, no, as they're different hardware
00:39:38gevaertsh3av3n: What do you mean by that ? It works on lots of players from different manufacturers.
00:40:14h3av3ni mean: company that produces clones of ipods they look the same they got the same menu just .. their cheaper
00:40:47gevaertsOK. Those probably won't work (unless they are actually the same inside as well, which seems unlikely)
00:40:49 Nick midkay_ is now known as midkay (
00:41:29kushal_12_27_200this time it says
00:41:37kushal_12_27_200in the sansa screen
00:41:53gevaertskushal_12_27_200: great. Now "sudo mount -t msdos /dev/disk1 /tmp/sansa"
00:41:57h3av3nwell I don't thing it would be so much of an awe because instead of designing a different architecture to do the same thing, i'm leaning to think that they copied the architecture too....
00:41:57stripwaxh3av3n - if they genuinely look the same and have the same menu, how would one distinguish it from a real ipod?
00:42:10h3av3nIt's not called Ipod
00:42:15amiconngevaerts: Could you tell me where the actual hardware init on usb connection does happen (the DEV_EN stuff)?
00:42:17stripwaxwhat is it called
00:42:23h3av3ndepends on the company
00:42:26stripwaxname some
00:42:34h3av3nthe one i want to buy is named quick
00:42:37*amiconn wants to compare our sequence with what that rom test routine does
00:42:44h3av3nlooks exactly like a mini gen 2
00:42:55 Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!")
00:43:00gevaertsamiconn: firmware/target/arm/usb-fw-pp502x.c
00:43:17gevaertskushal_12_27_200: now "sudo cp firmware.mi4 pribootLoader.rom header.txt /tmp/sansa"
00:43:17h3av3nHyunday produces some ipod clones too
00:43:25stripwaxh3av3n - any model numbers or links or anything?
00:43:29krazykith3av3n, they copy what the software LOOKS like, they don't copy the hardware. they won't run rockbox.
00:43:30 Quit Axio ()
00:43:32krazykitnot unless someone ports rockbox to that hardware.
00:43:34stripwaxlots of people make mp3 players that look a bit like ipods
00:43:52gevaertsOK. then "sudo umount /dev/disk1"
00:44:00h3av3nthese are identical not just a bit
00:44:14gevaertsThen "sudo hdiutil detach /dev/disk1"
00:44:25h3av3nwould they put that kind of work in rebuilding the whole hardware?
00:44:42gevaertsh3av3n: Have you opened them and compared the insides ? Pictures of ipod insides should be easy to find
00:44:59h3av3ntrue, i will try to find some ipod clone factory or something like that :D
00:45:01kushal_12_27_200The disk unmounted but "hdiutil: couldn't eject "disk1" - error 49168" no outut on sansa
00:45:05stripwaxh3av3n - my guess is they are cheaper than real ipods because they are not as good as real ipods. how about that?
00:45:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:45:34gevaertskushal_12_27_200: did the sansa say "LUN0 unlocked" ?
00:45:51stripwaxthinking that cost reduction implies different hardware
00:45:52kushal_12_27_200no, it is still LUN0 locked
00:46:11gevaertskushal_12_27_200: run "df /tmp/sansa"
00:46:32h3av3nSame menu, same functions same everything i could say that the battery is the same because the shop selling it here wouldn't give them with 2 years warranty
00:46:50stripwax"same everything" implies it *is* an apple ipod
00:47:02kushal_12_27_200pasting result in pastebin
00:47:17stripwaxh3av3n - i have no idea what you mean by the battery being the same
00:47:33h3av3nsame charging time
00:47:39stripwaxIf it works with Apple iTunes then it is an apple ipod
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00:48:13h3av3nno theyr in the mp3 player category and its just, everything like an ipod (meaning that i compared the two myself) but its just not made by apple
00:48:21h3av3nsome chinese companies or stuff like that
00:48:41gevaertskushal_12_27_200: try "sudo umount /dev/disk1" again
00:48:59stripwaxI just think you should be careful about what you mean when you say "same functions". You mean "it behaves like an mp3 player", not "it functions in exactly the same way as an apple ipod"
00:49:11 Quit robin0800 (" I love my HydraIRC -> <-")
00:49:19gevaertskushal_12_27_200: then try "sudo hdiutil detach /dev/disk1" again
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00:50:01h3av3nstrip wax: if you dont turn them both with their backsides facing up and you see that one is missing the iPod written on the back you wouldnt be able to tell the difference
00:50:03 Quit conando (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:50:12kushal_12_27_200yes, now it is unmounted and ejected. The sansa screen says LUN0 unlocked LUN0 ejected.
00:50:12stripwaxh3av3n - but anyway I suppose the point is, if nobody really knows anything about the hardware or the software of your mp3 knock-off, then we have no way to tell you if rockbox can possibly work on it
00:50:25gevaertskushal_12_27_200: ok. Now unplug the cable
00:50:37stripwaxh3av3n - what it *looks* like is just cosmetic. I could put my ipod in a shoebox and it would still be an ipod
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00:50:53gevaertskushal_12_27_200: does it do anything ?
00:50:58 Quit gtkspert_ (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
00:51:07kushal_12_27_200yes, it booted and asked for language
00:51:22kushal_12_27_200Should I go ahead and press english?
00:51:28h3av3noutside and inside, inside meaning: menu collors , button sizes ...
00:51:31gevaertskushal_12_27_200: yes.
00:51:53teksimianHi there, I have a very basic question, the answer to which I couldnt find in the docs. If i put rockbox on my ipod, does that mean bye bye itunes, and that I can just copy mp3s onto it via mounted fs?
00:51:55gevaertskushal_12_27_200: after that, just to make sure, choose "Format" in the Settings menu
00:52:07gevaertsThen choose yes
00:52:26kushal_12_27_200format complete
00:52:35 Quit tessarakt (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:52:38stripwaxh3av3n - menu colours and button sizes are still just completely cosmetic!
00:52:38h3av3nits true i don't like the ideea
00:52:40kushal_12_27_200should I also change USB mode to MSC?
00:52:47gevaertskushal_12_27_200: yes.
00:52:52stripwaxh3av3n - were you able to find a link to info on any of these products?
00:53:01h3av3nclone of iphone
00:53:05h3av3nat 159$
00:53:08stripwaxiphone now?
00:53:11stripwaxnot ipod mini?
00:53:18h3av3nim still searching for ipod
00:53:21h3av3njust found an iphone
00:53:24gevaertskushal_12_27_200: It should be ok now. I'm wondering what went wrong this time. Did you unplug it unsafely or anything like that ?
00:54:34krazykitteksimian, you can still run itunes if you want, but it's your choice
00:54:37gevaertsteksimian: with rockbox the files can be anywhere on the filesystem, so
00:54:40kushal_12_27_200I tried to sync it with a Windows computer that had some podcasts I wanted to listen. I think the syncing is what caused this. I am not sure, but since all I did except that was listen to music,
00:55:20kushal_12_27_200I am inclined to blame the syncing. I am never syncing my sansa again. I will just manually upload the files
00:55:47gevaertskushal_12_27_200: that seems safer. Let's hope it doesn't happen again
00:55:47 Quit tessarakt2 ("Client exiting")
00:55:55teksimiankrazykit, gevaerts, I would like to be done with itunes for obvious reasons. So I just copy the files onto the fs, and the firmware will find it? I don't have to use any third party program or anything, Correct?
00:55:56kushal_12_27_200thanks a lot, gevaerts! you are the best
00:56:08stripwaxh3av3n - so this iphone "clone" already has different specs to the real iphone, given that it weighs less
00:56:19gevaertsYou're welcome
00:56:20stripwaxso obviously the hardware is different
00:56:32gevaertsteksimian: rockbox will find it
00:56:47h3av3ndid u weigh your iphone, or some iphone?
00:57:02h3av3nor got data from gsmarena?
00:57:02teksimianawesome. time to install rockbox :D what are the chances of me bricking my ipod?
00:57:02*gevaerts wonders what amiconn found
00:57:13kushal_12_27_200when I plugged it back in, I found something different.
00:57:13stripwaxh3av3n - I compared the specs on your link to the specs on apple's link . what did you expect?
00:57:18 Join Zarggg_ [0] (
00:57:27amiconnWait a few minutes, have to do some more checks
00:57:35h3av3ni thought you were going after gsm arena too they got crooked data here and there
00:57:41kushal_12_27_200gavaerts, unlike last time when the folders had strange names, this time they have english names
00:58:12h3av3nwhatever i can't find now much about that "quick" company producing the ipods i am selling, i will try and maybe see what i can dig up tomorow at work....
00:58:13stripwaxh3av3n - I don't know what that means. but this is getting off topic, rockbox will almost certainly never be ported to the iphone.
00:58:19gevaertskushal_12_27_200: then I guess last time the recovery wasn't really complete. Probably you should have done a format then as well
00:58:35*stripwax notices the screen resolution on the clone is totally different too
00:58:41h3av3njesus crhist I showed you a clone of an apple product
00:58:44kushal_12_27_200I think you are rightand there are only two files in the root level, version.sdk and version.txt .
00:58:49h3av3nthats it just as an example
00:58:54h3av3nshowing that those exist
00:58:55kushal_12_27_200unlike last time
00:58:56stripwaxit doesn't even have wifi! :)
00:59:08teksimiangevaerts; awesome. time to install rockbox :D what are the chances of me bricking my video ipod?
00:59:16stripwaxok so that's an example of not a clone, but a knock-off
00:59:35gevaertsteksimian: As far as I know near zero, but I don't have much ipod experience
00:59:35h3av3nthat's what their called? sorry pretty bad english here
00:59:49stripwaxI just mean it isn't a clone, as it isn't identical
01:00:12teksimianthank you guys! gevaerts krazykit, thank you.
01:00:12 Part teksimian
01:00:31krazykith3av3n, any more discussion of these knockoff products is offtopic, as none of them will run rockbox.
01:00:37stripwaxWhich I think was your original question - if the Quick mp3 player is really identical to the official product, then I'm sure it will work fine with rockbox
01:01:22*gevaerts doesn't care if it's a clone or not, but mentions the existence of #rockbox-community just in case
01:01:25h3av3nbasically yes, that was my question.... damn that pretty much sucks, because from what i've read rockbox is a great piece of software
01:01:40h3av3nthank you gevaerts
01:01:42stripwaxh3av3n - rockbox is great
01:01:57*amiconn is now more puzzled than before :/
01:02:10krazykith3av3n, well, if you want rockbox, it's as simple as buying one of the real players from the front page :)
01:02:15h3av3ni know and i hate that i probably wown't be able to take it to a spin
01:02:20h3av3nyes true but, low funds
01:02:44amiconngevaerts: First, the good news: After playing the whole album (>70 minutes) off my H10 via usb, there were just 3 resets logged in dmesg
01:03:18h3av3nbut i'm sure i will try
01:03:32gevaertsNot perfect, but still (IMHO) good enough to call it working. What's the bad news ?
01:03:47h3av3nim looking at some other knock-offs now and, some look like a video nano but with a monochrome screen :|
01:04:08h3av3ncould i wreck the poor knock-off thing just by trying?
01:04:14amiconnNow, the puzzling one: I enabled the DEV_INIT2 handling in usb-fw-pp502x.c for PP5022 as well. That males it behave better on windows+hub (accesses are faster, less errors are logged in the system protocol), but worse on linux+front port
01:04:24 Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU)
01:05:01amiconnThe usb test code in the mini's and g5.5's roms does handle DEV_INIT2 too
01:05:02 Quit JamPS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:05:18krazykith3av3n, probably not. the bootloader would simply fail to install and you'd have a useless directory on your player.
01:05:25stripwaxh3av3n - I sent you a private message
01:05:34 Join ol_schoola [0] (
01:06:06gevaertsThen I guess it should be enabled anyway. Buschel only did the for PP5020 before the usb stack was working properly, so the #ifdefs there are really guesses
01:06:38 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
01:06:39h3av3nthanx krazy, at least i wown't give up without trying
01:06:44 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
01:09:18gevaertsamiconn: also, I found that the number of resets can be pretty rando,
01:10:53amiconnRegarding the transient fullspeed devices - maybe we're enabling something in the controller that shouldn't be enabled?
01:11:04gevaertsI just read 100MB twice, the first time I got 14 resets, the second time 28
01:11:26amiconnThose appear even if I plug the mini into the rear port of the linux box, but there are no resets
01:11:36 Part Bensawsome
01:12:01amiconnYes, but a difference between a few dozen resets and successful mount and *thousands
01:12:04gevaertsThey might be related to us only enabling the controller on plugin detect.
01:12:13gevaertsOk. That's a big difference
01:12:19amiconnof resets and scsi errors and unsuccessful mount might be significant
01:12:49h3av3nok, bye bye talk tomorow sometime
01:14:57gevaertsEnabling DEV_INIT2 here (laptop ports, sansa) doesn't seem to make a difference
01:16:15amiconnSome usb related init sequence in the rom checks explicitly for PP5020 vs. PP5022 ...
01:17:09 Quit Zarggg (Connection timed out)
01:17:30*gevaerts still can't read assembly well enough to be able to spot that sort of thing quickly
01:20:19amiconnWhat that does (as far as I figured): * enable DEV_USB1 * wait 10 us * set bit 1 of REG_USBCMD * wait for that bit to become zero again * enter a subroutine that checks for PP5020 vs. PP5022 first, and then does some extended init in the 0x7000002x and 0x7000006x range for PP5022 only
01:22:07gevaertsWait for bit 1 of REG_USBCMD to become zero ? That sounds strange. That's the RUN bit
01:22:49 Quit abescully (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:23:43stripwaxamiconn - hm, that sounds quite different to what usb_drv_init does currently
01:24:25gevaertsusb_drv_init() is actually later. That's straight controller initialisation.
01:25:14gevaertsusb_init_device() and usb_enable() in usb-fw-pp502x.c is what we're comparing with
01:26:03stripwaxoh, sorry
01:26:29gevaertsIt's still somewhat different though
01:27:37amiconnThat extended init code is rather strange...
01:29:20 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:31:15stripwaxamiconn - bit 1 as in 0x01 or 0x02?
01:31:27amiconn0x01 is bit 0
01:31:32*gevaerts slaps forehead
01:31:50gevaertsThat's a controller reset
01:31:57stripwaxso it's the same as usb_drv_init ..
01:32:27stripwaxexcept we delay 5us rather than 10us
01:32:41stripwaxand don't do any of that 'other stuff'
01:32:56 Join Febs [0] (
01:33:02gevaertsWhich explains why it works well on PP5020...
01:34:21amiconnOn 5022, what happens is a whole series of bit flips in 0x70000028 and 0x70000060, with 10 us intervals
01:35:39amiconnI will call 0x7000028 just '28, and 0x7000060 just '60 to keep the sequence short. Numbers in [] are bits within those registers. Here's the sequence:
01:38:09stripwaxwait - OF waits 10us, we wait 50 ms ..
01:38:22stripwax(for reset, that is)
01:39:50amiconn'60[0..3] = H, '28[16] = H -> L (i.e very short pulse), '60[5] = L * wait 10us * '60[5] = H * wait 10us * '60[0,1,3] = L, '60[2] = H * wait 10 us * '60[5] = L * wait 10us * '60[0..3] = L * wait 10us * '60[5] = H * wait 10us * '28[11] = H->L (pulse) * wait until '28[7] becomes L
01:41:16*gevaerts tries to put that in the code
01:41:51stripwaxTotal guess but maybe a bunch of flushing/resetting of usb controller state that is done automatically on 5020
01:42:12stripwaxi.e. maybe a software workaround for a usb hardware problem on 5022?
01:42:21*stripwax does too
01:42:22amiconnUnfortunately pp-5020.h mentions neither 0x70000028 nor 0x70000060
01:43:51amiconnHere's the raw asm:
01:44:19amiconnNote the check for PP5022 at the top; is_pp5022 returns 1 for pp5022, 0 for other pp502x
01:46:06*amiconn guesses that might be something portalplayer put in just to make RE more difficult
01:46:29amiconnI remember the infamouns "unlock >66MHz" bit on PP5002 and PP5020
01:46:56*amiconn wonders whether ipl incorporated those fixes meanwhile
01:47:19amiconnActually it's not a bit, it's a magic constant
01:51:34gevaertsMy translation is at
01:52:12 Join dandin1 [0] (
01:53:51*stripwax disagrees with lines 13 and 14 - shouldn't they be 0x0000000b and 0x00000004 resp?
01:54:08stripwaxbased on amiconn's post, not looked at the raw asm
01:54:40*gevaerts thinks stripwax is right
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01:54:53amiconnActually it should be one line
01:54:59*stripwax was checking his against gevaerts and found some mistakes in his own anyway
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01:55:15gevaertsThat's why I posted it
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01:55:30amiconnREG_0x70000060 = (REG_0x70000060 & ~0x0f) | 0x04;
01:55:47amiconnI.e. one step, that's why I posted the raw asm as well
01:57:51amiconnI could not find an equivalent in the c200 OF so far, but that doesn't mean much
01:58:46 Quit Zarggg_ ("Even electronic brain pancake crystal elderly have mass naked child events lately.")
01:59:09 Part moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
01:59:24gevaertsIt doesn't enable DEV_USB0 ?
02:00:47amiconnThis subroutine is just the pp5022 specific stuff that happens after what I mentioned earlier (for all pp502x)
02:01:43gevaertsYou only mentionned DEV_USB1 before.
02:03:16amiconnBut there could be some upper-level function that already handles DEV_USB0
02:03:39gevaertsYes, probably
02:03:40*stripwax builds
02:04:16corevettewhen i submit my songs to only picks up the last song i played..why/
02:04:41amiconnI just searched for a constant of 0xc5000000 in the listing, and started looking at the functions containing that
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02:05:33stripwaxcorevette - what tool are you using to submit? maybe it shows you the error, or has an error log or message somewhere? if the /.scrobbler.log file looks ok then rockbox is working ok
02:05:59amiconngevaerts: Btw, according to usb-drv-pp502x.c, bit 1 is USBCMD_CTRL_RESET
02:06:29amiconn(as you said it would be RUN)
02:06:29gevaertsamiconn: yes, I was wrong first. It's getting late, and 1 and 0 start looking similar...
02:06:38corevettestripwax: i've tried and and they both do the same thing. last fm says: Some tracks you submitted have not been added to your profile for the following reason:
02:06:38corevetteSubmissions from before the date you registered are not allowed.
02:06:39*gevaerts tries to find an excuse
02:06:44stripwaxamiconn - he did slap his forehead afterwards.. :)
02:07:15*amiconn wonders where GPIO D bit 0 comes into play....
02:07:19stripwaxcorevette - well that could be the reason then. what audio device do you have, and is the realtime clock set correctly
02:07:44corevettestripwax: ipod video 30g (5th gen) with rockbox
02:07:49stripwaxalso, of course, any tracks you played from before the date you registered will not get uploaded to .. as per the error message you gotg
02:07:56gevaertsAnyway this doesn't seem to make much difference on my sansa. Maybe you will be luckier on ipod
02:08:02stripwaxcorevette .. and is the realtime clock set correctly
02:08:27corevettei'm checking stripwax...where is it at?
02:08:46stripwaxcorevette - you can check in the rockbox manual
02:09:09corevettestripwax: you mean the date/time in rockbox in settings?
02:09:15stripwaxis it correct
02:09:20corevettestripwax: 2000
02:09:24stripwaxso, no
02:09:52stripwaxfix that and I'm sure will start to believe the timestamps you send it :)
02:09:59*gevaerts didn't encounter GPIO D bit 0 before
02:10:06corevettethanks stripwax :-D
02:10:12stripwaxcorevette in the meantime you can use .scrobbler-timeless to submit
02:10:20stripwax(to submit the tracks you already played back in 2000 ;-)
02:10:29corevettena didn't have too many anyways, it's fine
02:10:36amiconngevaerts: *if* that has a meaning, it's most certainly ipod specific
02:10:58*amiconn wonders whether the pp emulator would run far enough to snoop the sansa of doing its usb init
02:12:03gevaertsProbably, yes. It's just that it doesn't appear anywhere in the rockbox usb code yet, so if it means anything it's new
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02:14:14*stripwax sighs - still no drive icon in Windows
02:14:38*gevaerts promises stripwax to work on the SCSI support next. That should help
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02:15:48*amiconn can use rockbox highspeed already, he just has to avoid his hub, and the front ports of the linux box
02:15:50stripwaxgevaerts - I'm a bit suspicious but I guess only because the drive shows up fine in cmdline, just not in Explorer, but really I suppose that makes me more suspicious of Windows than rockbox
02:16:09amiconnstripwax: Did you check the system event log?
02:16:19stripwaxgevaerts - and of course, thanks very much for the help!
02:16:38*gevaerts thinks amiconn is lucky to have a reliable ata driver
02:16:54amiconnYes, plain ata on both targets
02:17:19stripwaxamiconn - yep, but nothing interesting in there
02:17:39stripwax^interesting^remotely related
02:17:50*amiconn gets lots of event #51 from 'disk' when using the hub
02:18:01stripwax(whatever #51 means..)
02:18:06amiconnThat is, only with the mini - with the H10 even the hub connection works
02:18:51gevaertsThere is still this udelay() issue on my c250. I'm a bit hesitant to commit a fix that works here though. I don't want to break other people's filesystems
02:19:08stripwaxamiconn - although I haven't tested it in any kind of rigorous way, rockbox usb seems to work just fine for me. I'm still fullspeed btw
02:19:10amiconnIt just means that windows has a problem accessing the disk
02:19:34stripwaxapart from the whole 'not showing up on the desktop' thing
02:20:11stripwaxIt's way past my bedtime ;-) Thanks amiconn + gevaerts
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02:21:46gevaertsI should actually go to sleep as well.
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03:07:03slackcubI'm having some trouble with my iriver with rockbox, and I'm hoping it's not what I think it is. I completely charge it, and after about 20 minutes it just shuts off. When I try to turn it on again the boot up screen comes up, stays on for about a second, then turns off again. Anyone recognize this?
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03:09:26krazykitslackcub, does that happen with the original firmware? if it does, you've likely got a hardware problem (probably a bad battery)
03:15:04slackcubI haven't tried yet, that's what I thought it may be, but I was wondering if there was something I'm missing...
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03:16:32slackcubmainly because when it powers back on after shutting off by itself, the boot up screen shows the voltage of the battery, and it still shows over 3.5v
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04:14:17asdrubalis there a problem with fat driver?
04:14:24asdrubalI am getting alot of corruption in my sansa
04:14:35asdrubalI should update to current
04:14:53asdrubalAll my 1GB microSD got corrupted
04:15:09asdrubaleven in OF
04:15:30cool_walking_If it happens in the OF, it doesn't have anything to do with Rockbox.
04:15:46cool_walking_Do a filesystem and bad blocks check.
04:17:58cool_walking_Or do you just mean it's still corrupted when you go into the OF?
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05:26:09teksimianHi, I extracted the rockbox firmware and font package as per the documentation. The ipod is in disk mode. I try to run ipodpatcher.exe, and it tells me that No Ipods were found, aborting. Can anyone suggest any help?
05:26:49Horschtwhat ipod do you have?
05:27:14teksimian80 gig video
05:27:29Horschtuse rbutil
05:27:57krazykitare you sure it's a video, teksimian, and not a classic?
05:28:17teksimianer, sorry it is classic :( d'oh.
05:28:34Horschtok, then don't use rbutil
05:28:45HorschtClassics are not supported by Rockbox
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05:29:03teksimianhow come?
05:29:18krazykitnew, undocumented hardware and encrypted firmware.
05:29:19Horschtunknown hardware, encrypted firmware
05:29:40teksimianthat sucks. Is there any hope for future development?
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05:29:58krazykitnobody is working on it at all right now, so i wouldn't hold your breath.
05:30:10*teksimian faints :(
05:30:23teksimianhehe, alright. thanks a lot guys :)
05:30:50teksimiantho I read that they were able to crack somethings for third party audio management tools.
05:30:59krazykitcompletely and utterly unrelated.
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07:56:16crazy_busrockbox tells you how many files you have on the player. But is there anyway to get how long there is remaining in playing time for either a folder or the entire player?
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08:16:02GodEatercrazy_bus: how would it calculate such a figure without opening all the files in advance to see how long they play for ?
08:17:37crazy_busGodEater: I was just wondering if there was a feature that did that. Mabey there is something similar for the desktop I can use when its plugged in
08:22:43markunGodEater: the length is saved in the tagcache/database, so if it's enabled we could calculate it.
08:23:34GodEaterI was thinking the same thing actually
08:23:45GodEaterdidn't know if length was held there or not though
08:24:00GodEaterthat doesn't work on a "per folder" basis though
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08:35:13pondlife;topicseen#msg117040 deserves a reply...
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08:36:27GodEaterI suspect his reply will end up being "great, now move it to the wiki please..."
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08:44:15pondlife"<GodEater> that doesn't work on a "per folder" basis though".. It would be per-playlist... we need to avoid thinking per-folder.
08:44:46GodEaterI'm aware of that, but the question specifically mentioned per folder.
08:44:52GodEaterI just thought I'd point that out
08:45:06pondlifeAh, ok.
08:45:12*pondlife is not awake
08:45:22GodEaterI had no idea shotofadds was a London local too
08:45:27GodEaterwill be good to get a new face along
08:45:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:45:45pondlifeDid you decide to go to the same pub?
08:46:02pondlifeAnywhere that's just a pub... please no bowling ;)
08:46:15GodEaterno venue decision yet
08:46:19GodEaterat least - not that I'm aware of
08:46:34pondlifeWell, if you don't know, nobody does
08:46:45GodEaterwhat are you imlpying? ;)
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08:48:49GodEatermarkun: was it my imagination, or did you start playing with git at some point ?
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08:51:34gibbon_good morning
08:52:08markunGodEater: I use git for rockbox development now
08:52:20markunmorning gibbon_
08:52:58gibbon_hi markun
08:53:25markunGodEater: why are you asking?
08:54:17GodEaterI got an invitation to join github yesterday
08:54:24GodEaterand I have three invites of my own to pass on now
08:55:25markunnever heard of github
08:55:27scorchei find it interesting that in every "rockbox meet" i have been to, git has come up multiple times
08:55:34 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
08:55:45GodEaterit's a bit like
08:55:56GodEaterin that it's a public git repository hosting site
08:56:13markunI wouldn't mind an invitation
08:56:15 Join ender` [0] (
08:56:16GodEaterbut they have a really nice front end for it from what I can see, allowing you to do a lot of fancy things without knowing really esoteric git commands
08:56:27GodEaterPM me your email address then
08:56:46pondlifeGodEater: You might want to ask Nico_P too.
08:56:58pondlifeI don't know how happy he is with
08:57:01GodEaterpondlife: I already sent him a note :)
08:57:28*pondlife is still trying to get his Paid Work to move from SourceSafe to SVN
08:57:44GodEatermarkun: in the aether ;)
08:57:45pondlifeThey have that irrational fear of open source thing going on.
08:57:54markunthanks :)
08:58:01GodEaterI just wish this place would settle on one solution or another
08:58:05Bagderwell, not even MS uses sourcesafe ;-)
08:58:24GodEaterwe have SourceSafe, SVN, Clearcase, and a boatload of others besides
08:58:31GodEaterno git yet though (that I'm aware of) :)
08:58:51pondlifeThe main problem is that they use lots of pinned/shared files. I can't see how to do that in SVN, but this is getting way OT.,
08:59:05GodEaterit's way cool markun - it automatically hunts out a gravatar for your email address
08:59:09GodEateryou don't even have to tell it to
08:59:15GodEater(assuming you have a gravatar that is)
08:59:37GodEaterI didn't see a lot of on topicness going on
08:59:46GodEaterso I don't think you're rocking the boat at the moment
09:00:16pondlifeI'm also doing the world's slowest binary chop through playback.c revisions... I can find some on-topic-ness if required
09:00:46 Quit Soap_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:01:20scorchewell, there is that handy dev clause in the guidelines ;)
09:02:00Bagderon topic: #1 - I volunteer as GSOC coordinator for Rockbox 2008 unless someone else feels like stepping up to it #2 - it would be fun if pixelma / amiconn would consider doing a Berlin Euro devcon ...
09:02:00pondlifeI'm over at the -community place now, so if anyone knows how to do pinned/shared files in SVN, please go there!
09:02:52*scorche volunteers to be a bird on Bagder's shoulder
09:03:23Bagdera parrot?
09:03:32BagderI can be a pirate!
09:03:36 Quit cool_walking_ (Remote closed the connection)
09:03:40pondlifea software pirate?
09:03:52scorchesure...i can repeat the stuff they said at the mentor summit :)
09:04:02pondlifea pirate with a patch?
09:05:26Bagderof course, pirates have patches how else would you know it is a pirate?
09:05:48scorchepeg leg? arrrrrrr? booty? FSM?
09:05:57GodEateryou'd have a hook in place of one hand ?
09:06:32GodEatermarkun: they have a channel on freenode too - #github
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09:06:52pondlifeWhat do pirates take when they go fishing?
09:07:03pondlifePieces of bait. Pieces of bait.
09:07:31pondlifeSurely, beaaarrrrr
09:07:58*pondlife is bored of the boring pirate jokes that just put aarrrrr in somewhere
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09:08:23pondlifebuy guys
09:08:34pondlifesell, even
09:08:39peturBagder: Berlin would be fine for me
09:08:47pondlifeBagder: me too
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09:08:56pondlifeDepending on the date
09:09:16Bagderyeah, but that's why I want us to get something specified soonish
09:09:20*scorche makes up a template for Bagder
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09:10:15peturBagder: I was just thinking *if* something would go wrong with the little one, it is easier for me to cancel my trip than for the rest to find a new location...
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09:10:41Bagderpetur: my thinking too. Tiny ones tend to ruin plans and do things their own ways.
09:10:56BagderI have two proofs of that... ;-)
09:11:07colinldoes anyone know why rockbox reboots to the ipod4gray's original firmware when connected to USB?
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09:11:22peturI hope nobody minds. If I make it I'll compensate with heavy luggage :)
09:11:29Bagderbut now I gotta run, back in 3-4 hours
09:11:31pondlifecolinl: Because we don't have our own USB support just yet
09:11:49colinlpondlife: ah, OK :)
09:12:08colinlpondlife: so the "charge battery when USB is connected" setting is just a stub right now?
09:12:37pondlifeI'm not certain, I don't have an iPod myself. But USB support is getting very near now.
09:12:45colinlcool, good news :)
09:13:04colinlnice software, by the way, thanks to the devs :)
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09:28:34markunGodEater: it did find my gravatar
09:30:22GodEaternifty eh :)
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10:13:13LinusNright to the point
10:18:47markunis it fair to put "expensive city" as cons for amsterdam and stokholm?
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10:23:24PaulJamHi, i was wondering if someone updated the m68k-elf-gcc package for cygwin to version 3.4.6 (which is the recomended version). When installed it a few monts ago it was still version 3.4.5
10:24:22GodEaterAmsterdam is expensive ?
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10:25:08markunI find it quite expensive, but maybe that's just compared to other cities in the netherlands
10:25:19markunit's way more expensive than berlin at least
10:25:27GodEaternever been to Berlin
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10:25:39GodEaterbut I didn't find Amsterdam than bad when I was there last (some years ago mind you)
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10:33:01LinusNPaulJam: the latest cygwin package is 3.4.6
10:34:01PaulJamLinusN: ok, thank you.
10:36:42*petur thinks there aren't that many cheap places anymore....
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10:42:29pondlifeNico_P: FYI r16426 also suffers from the same "playback gets confused when buffering occurs". r16423 actually crashed on me when buffering took place - I'll continue to head backwards.
10:43:20Nico_PI guess I committed r16425 a bit too soon then
10:43:40pondlifeI mean it was broken already (I think)
10:43:50pondlifeI'll carry on testing.
10:43:51fyrestormcan anyone suggest a good ipod battery replacement site?
10:44:00GodEateripod doctor
10:44:40GodEaterthey're the ones I used yes
10:44:52GodEateryou're in NY though aren't you?
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10:45:50GodEatermight not be so cost effective then
10:46:01GodEater <−− then ?
10:46:20fyrestormthey dont use paypal
10:46:29peturfind a CameronSino one on ebay...
10:49:10Nico_Ppondlife: I'm sorry I probably won't have time to investigate today
10:49:19*Nico_P is taking the GRE this afternoon
10:49:22pondlifeThat's ok
10:49:31pondlifeAn exam?
10:49:56Nico_Pyes, graduate record examination. it's an US thing
10:50:40pondlifeUS, in France?
10:52:17Nico_Pyes, it's part of the admission process for Georgia Tech. I'm applying for a double degree
10:52:31pondlifeGood luck then!
10:52:50pondlifeNo postage today?
10:53:45Nico_PI didn't see anything in my mailbox
10:53:54pondlifeTomorrow, hopefully, then
10:54:39Nico_Pdid you post it yesterday or the day before?
10:55:02pondlifethe day before, but it might not have been collected until yesterday
10:56:45pondlifeAh, it's 3 day delivery
10:56:52pondlifeBit sucky
10:58:07Nico_Pno worries, I'll probably get it on monday then ;)
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11:02:14barrywardellgevaerts' HAVE_POWER commit yesterday looks wrong. shouldn't it be HAVE_USB_POWER?
11:06:08*GodEater has one more github invite. Anyone else interested (that would likely use it) ?
11:06:19peturyes, it probably removed the feature for all targets
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11:09:44*barrywardell will commit the fix
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11:51:38pondlifepetur: I don't think Amsterdam is expensive ... probably cheaper than Berlin, no?
11:51:54pondlifeI've not been there for a while though
11:52:42peturonly been there once, I managed to find spots with ok prices
11:52:51petur(not in the center)
11:53:07pondlifeMe too, but not far out... 10 mins walk
11:53:18peturyes, something like that
11:53:28LinusNi was wondering about the "expensive" comments - compared to what?
11:54:02peturfree :)
11:54:28pondlifeAh, my mistake - it was markun's comment, not petur's.
11:55:42peturI'd be happy with either location, and if none are possible still host it myself...
11:56:31markunLinusN: maybe the cost of an average meal and hotelroom would be more objective
11:56:51LinusNin the local currency
11:57:32LinusNor perhaps euro or usd
11:57:35pondlifeYou can find massive price variations in any city
11:58:06LinusNbesides, even the definition of "average meal" differs a lot between individuals :-)
11:58:25*pondlife gets hungry for a ham sandwich
11:58:44*LinusN craves for his regular lobster lunch
11:59:16*petur swears at pondlife/LinusN and decides to wait another 30min for lunch
11:59:31*pondlife throws petur a beer and a sausage
11:59:58*petur finds they are blocked by the company firewall :(
12:00:11pondlifeOr you can have the rest of this biscuit that LambdaCalculus37 gave me last night. It's gigantic.
12:00:57*pondlife wonders if libcurl could offer a sausage pass through as a GSoC project, then stops being silly.
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12:07:40*pixelma also wonders about the "expensive city" comment, can't imagine that Berlin is any better...
12:07:49*petur collects a bunch of CF cards at work to get identify info from them
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12:20:14peturbah, the small cards don't seem to be IDE compatible :(
12:22:17pondlifeZagor: Any chance that could have revision numbers like the main page table?
12:26:19preglowpetur: i thought they had to be
12:26:47peturwell, I tried three brands, all 512MB and non wanted to boot :(
12:27:49peturI can read supported PIO modes (0x3) which is the same as my working card, but 0x82 and 0x83 return zero
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12:33:13peturhmmm lots of identify stuff is not supported on older cards (prior to ATA-3)
12:38:45gevaertsDoes anyone here know anyone who has both and ipod mini 1st gen and 2nd gen ?
12:39:11gevaertsNo, unfortunatly. He has only 2nd gen
12:40:14gevaertsThe reason I'm asking is that possibly the USB signal quality problems are PP5020 vs PP5022 related, and testing that would be easiest on the minis, since they have (nearly) no other difference
12:41:00gevaertsAnd the only way to test reliably is by using the same port on the same PC
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12:46:24linuxstb_gevaerts: I have both an ipod Color (PP5020) and ipod Video... I don't know of anyone who owns both types of mini.
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12:52:12gevaertslinuxstb_: color seems to be PP5021. Could be interestign to test as well. Could you try compiling with USE_ROCKBOX_USB and USE_HIGH_SPEED, and testing reads on the same USB port for both ? If one gives lots of resets and the other doesn't (most likely on front ports or laptop ports, PC back ports are much more tolerant), it means that one of them needs extra initialization. Problem is that we also need PP5022 on the same setup ideally, with thin
12:53:20gevaerts.... things like power management chip identical (because the other hypothesis is that the power management chip makes the difference). The only hard data we have now is that H10 works (nearly) perfectly and mini 2nd gen doesn't
12:53:30*gevaerts really should type shorter lines
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12:57:23linuxstb_gevaerts: I can try that this evening (I don't have either with me at the moment). Does the host OS matter? I normally use Linux, but have access to Mac OS X and WinXP.
12:58:04gevaertslinuxstb_: results are easiest to see on linux (count resets in the dmesg output)
12:58:26linuxstb_gevaerts: Perfect.
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12:59:23linuxstb_BTW, the Color is definitely 5020. The video is 5021, but afaik, that's just a slight variation on the 5022.
13:01:05gevaertslinuxstb_: see yesterday's log from about 22:40 to midnight for details on what amiconn did. That's what led is to this hypothesis
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13:05:41amiconngevaerts: iPod color is PP5020. The only PP5022 iPods (and PP5021, which identifies as PP5022, and probably is just that with a lower maximum clock) are the Mini G2, Video, and Nano
13:06:35gevaertsOK, so with some luck linuxstb's test should be conclusive.
13:08:48*amiconn read up a bit on USB and now knows that signaling doesn't need 5 volts
13:10:14*gevaerts opens usb_20.pdf and goes to read as well
13:11:00*amiconn found
13:16:57gevaertsUSB 2.0 table 7-7 on page 179 seems to have the details
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13:46:29LinusNhmmm, i wonder if the signal quality problems may arise from improper configuration of the LTC4066 (battery charging from usb)
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13:47:17gevaertsThat's of course another possibility. Any way to test this easily ?
13:48:06LinusNthat chip has a current limiting function
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13:50:41amiconnLinusN: What puzzles me is that PP5022 seems to have worse problems than PP5020. Of course that could be misleading as the H10 has both different power management chips and a different cable
13:51:14amiconnA 1st Gen mini would be an ideal target for comparison...
13:51:34*gevaerts considers buying a 1st gen mini and sending it to amiconn (he doesn't have enough DAPs yet)
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13:57:04LinusNi don't yet know how to control the 100mA/500mA limit on the 4066
13:57:32LinusNhowever, you can monitor the charging current using one of the ADC channels
13:58:19LinusNi don't remember which one atm
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15:15:23LambdaCalculus37pondlife: Here?
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15:19:38LambdaCalculus37GodEater: Ping!
15:22:05peturfeeling alone? ;)
15:22:27LambdaCalculus37I feel like the Omega Man. :)
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15:23:27LambdaCalculus37petur: But then again, there are logs, of course. ;)
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15:24:24LambdaCalculus37I was going to see if I can borrow a co-worker's iPod nano to run test_disk on it and get a measurement for here:
15:24:58LambdaCalculus37barrywardell had run a test on a Sansa e280, so I want to try another flash target, as well as my c240.
15:25:58gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: are you up to some risks on c240 ? I'd like to see if removing the udelay() in firmware/target/arm/sandisk/ata-c200_e200.c is harmless on all c200's and not just on mine.
15:26:36*gevaerts tries to convince people to try this by mentionning that it would improve write speed
15:27:02LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: I'll backup my Sansa before I do so.
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15:28:45gevaertsThat's a god idea. On mine it increases reliability with usb write ( so it actually seems safe on high speed), but I haven't had any reports of what happens on others. I do know that the udelay() is needed on e200 though
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15:33:09LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Is your new work in SVN?
15:33:16LambdaCalculus37If so I'll update my tree.
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15:34:37gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: Everything that works is in svn. I have some local SCSI changes, but they currently make things worse, so that's not pushed anywhere yet
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15:36:06*LambdaCalculus37 does an SVN update
15:40:11gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: are you using linux ? If so, could you paste the output of sfdisk -l on your c240 somewhere ? (or equivalent data from windows, but I don't know how to get those). I'm thinking about generalising my c250 full flash wipe tool to handle all sansas.
15:41:00LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: If it isn't a *nix, I'm not using it. :P
15:41:19LambdaCalculus37I'll pastebin sfdisk -l shortly.
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15:42:28*gevaerts prefers a *nux
15:43:36*LambdaCalculus37 prefers Linux but likes any good Unix
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15:52:04gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: dmesg output of the disk data would also be useful (especially the number of blocks reported there)
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15:55:07LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Okay, dumped dmesg output to a text file.
15:55:42LambdaCalculus37Will pastebin both in a few minutes; just gotta finish some work here.
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15:56:58gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: no need to hurry, I'm only collecting data right now.
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15:59:55LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: sfdisk - l:
16:01:08LambdaCalculus37And dmesg output upon connecting the c240:
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16:05:07*gevaerts expects problems finding volunteers to test this tool on all sansa variants once it's done. Most people probably don't like the idea of deliberately "bricking" their sansa.
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16:06:04*scorche remembers quite a few in other places that quite enjoyed it...
16:07:36gevaertsThing is, normal users seem to actually manage to get their player to a state where this kind of full wipe is needed before e200tool-induced recovery mode will actually do something.
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16:18:31amiconnpetur: There's a 3rd kind of devices where the CF mod can be done: those which need no adapter (mini 1st gen and mini 2nd gen)
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16:22:53n1sIs it known that rockbox spins the disk on every trackchange even if the buffer is almost full?
16:23:17n1sno wonder my batterytime has gone down severely...
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16:24:24n1sno database, runtime collection, album art or anything, just a regular playlist
16:24:55pondlifeLambdaCalculus37: I'm back.
16:25:49LambdaCalculus37pondlife: I'm going to update to r16442 in a bit, but I just wanted to report that all of the issue's we've been seeing with playback are definitely not happening in a consistent manner.
16:26:31LambdaCalculus37Last night, I was listening to an album on the way home, and there were no track skips, no pauses, and the x of y counter was well behaved.
16:27:00LambdaCalculus37Yet this morning, I was listening to an album, and all of a sudden, I hear it jump 5 tracks ahead again.
16:27:19LambdaCalculus37And now I went through two more albums and it's working just fine.
16:27:40pondlifeI've had 16433 failing very regularly in the sim
16:27:41*LambdaCalculus37 stops to take a breath
16:27:52pondlifeIt seems to be more consistent on there
16:28:11pondlifeOn H300 it's more intermittent.
16:28:49LambdaCalculus37Are there any specific targets where it's really problematic?
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16:36:44pondlifeLambdaCalculus37: I'm only using the sim really
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16:39:44hcshm, I'm getting 500s with the
16:41:18hcschanged from ftp to http, works
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16:42:56pondlifen1s: That would explain my recent loss of battery life nicely..
16:43:04pondlifeFrom 15 to 9 hours or so
16:43:24pondlifeI wonder how it could best be traced?
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16:57:25rasherIs the Sansa's dock line-out known/enabled/possible to enable?
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17:01:03jhMikeSis it just me or is the "View OS Stacks" sceen not auto updating now?
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17:08:38toffe82jhMikeS: find something intersting in the datasheet I sent you ?
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17:09:53pondlifejhMikeS: There was a change to simplelists a while back, that might be the culprit.
17:09:55jhMikeStoffe82: yes, what I need to know about the device to do anything worthwhile. :)
17:10:50jhMikeSpondlife: How far back? I was just going to search revisions.
17:10:52pondlifejhMikeS: And it's not just you
17:10:56pondlifeNot long
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17:11:23pondlifer16415, I expect
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17:11:39pondlifei.e. r16414 will auto update
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17:13:16GodEatertoffe82: what the heck is up with your connection ?
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17:13:25*GodEater facepalms
17:13:47LambdaCalculus37Maybe we ought to patch up his connection with some chewing gum and a piece of string. :)
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17:14:34GodEatertoffe82: what the heck is up with your connection ?
17:14:37*LambdaCalculus37 slams the airlock door shut behind toffe82
17:16:52toffe82I don't know
17:17:11toffe82it seems that somebody here must have a virus
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17:18:22toffe82it happen when one of the computer log on....
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17:21:21pondlifeThe room must be crammed full
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17:25:04jhMikeSpondlife: I guess it has to return ACTION_REDRAW if the button is ACTION_NONE?
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17:25:50pondlifejhMikeS: Something like that
17:25:59pondlifeI'm not familiar with the code
17:28:29pondlifen1s: I can't see any unexpected disk access here, are you able to see such misbehaviour?
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17:36:32gevaertsAny sansa e200 owners here ? I'm collecting partition table info for them (sfdisk -l and dmesg output).
17:37:10jhMikeSgevaerts: I am
17:37:26krazykitgevaerts, sure, lemme plug it in and pastebin it for you.
17:37:47amiconnjhMikeS: Not, it must not do that
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17:38:00krazykitwould you like a rhapsody model too?
17:38:16amiconnIf it does, the simplelist refreshes over and over, causing scrolling to not work
17:38:17jhMikeSamiconn: what must it do? other routines return ACTION_REDRAW.
17:38:40jhMikeSACTION_NONE produced no auto update
17:39:18amiconnHmm, you're talking about the action value.
17:39:50amiconnThis simplelist should be called messylist, as either it doesn't auto-update, or it doesn't scroll
17:39:56gevaertskrazykit: Not sure. I don't know enough about those yet. I'm going to start work sometime soon on a tool to wipe the entire flash (sometimes that seems to be needed in order to restore the bootloader), and I'm not sure if that's a good idea on the r's
17:40:05amiconnBoth are bad.
17:40:14pondlifesimplelist -> stupidlist
17:40:52Mode"#rockbox +o scorche|sh " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
17:40:57scorche|sh11:17 < toffe82> it seems that somebody here must have a virus
17:41:17pondlifeACTION_REDRAW shouldn't reset the scrolling for content that's not changed.
17:41:37Benjamin_Lgevaerts: from my e260, connected on usb 1 on my laptop:
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17:41:58Topic"Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | Planning on coming to a DevCon? Write your name down on the individual DevCon pages linked to here!" by scorche|sh (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
17:42:04jhMikeSthe scrolling behavior in that screen is bizarre. if you reverse the wheel direction, it scroll in the opposite direction to the extreme first.
17:42:44krazykitgevaerts, e250, non-rhapsody:
17:43:46Mode"#rockbox -o scorche|sh " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
17:44:11gevaertse200 has e250, e260 and e280, right ? Or am I missing some ?
17:44:15jhMikeSwhy would ACTION_REDRAW imply anything about the number of items?
17:44:28krazykitgevaerts, the e270 :)
17:45:07gevaertsOK. I wasn't sure if that one actually existed
17:45:51gevaertsSo I still need e270 and e280
17:46:34krazykitthough that fdisk output looks kinda funny... let me format and restore it and see if it changes at all
17:48:00gevaertskrazykit: it probably won't change. It seems the OF and recovery mode belive what's there blindly, which is why we need a tool to restore sane values there.
17:48:29krazykittoo late, already did it ;)
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17:50:03LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Which of the e200 series have you collected data on so far?
17:50:13gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: e250 and e260
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17:51:38gevaertsAre rhapsody models actually really different ? What happens if you put a "normal" partition table and firmware on it ?
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17:52:40krazykitgevaerts, you can convert it to a normal one by putting on the vanilla bootloader. al the rhapsody firmware seems to do is not export the hidden partition
17:52:55LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: There's some info here, if you want to jot some notes down:
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17:55:48toffe82scorche|sh: at my work place ;)
17:56:09gevaertsSo the exact flash sizes are presumably identical. I don't think I'll try to support it as such without being able to test myself. Anyway rhapsody users are less lilely to mess up their partition table if they can't get at it I guess
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18:01:42n1spondlife: yes, I get spinups on every automatic trackchange
18:02:07pondlifeWhich device?
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18:02:32pondlifeHmm, same here
18:02:37Horschtsame here
18:02:41HorschtFS 8601
18:03:00pondlifeI'm not using many features but I do have dircache enabled
18:03:14HorschtI don't.
18:03:29Horschtso probably not related to dircahce
18:03:29pondlifeI bet it's AA searching without dircache
18:03:39Horschtthat could be it, I am using AA
18:03:46pondlifeIf you enable dircache, does the disk stay quiet?
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18:04:06pondlife(Once the initial read has completed, of course)
18:04:24Horschtof course :)
18:04:25n1sI don't use aa or dircache
18:04:29pondlifeI believe it does the searches even if you don't use AA
18:04:39pondlifeSo no dircache = disk access
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18:04:45pondlifeI might be scaremongering :)
18:05:04rasherIt does the searches if the wps supports AA, obviously
18:05:20rasherBut shouldn't it be doing them at buffer-time?
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18:05:29pondlifeI'd think so
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18:06:26Horschthm... where is dircache?
18:06:27pondlifeHorscht: I've put a note on FS #8601 to keep the info together
18:06:34pondlifeSystem > Disk
18:07:12*pondlife wishes that were enabled by default on HD targets...
18:07:23pondlifeIt's like using DOS without SMARTDRV
18:07:24Horschtyeah, FS just notified me :)
18:08:06Horschtwhat does dircache do? I thougt it was only usefull for browsing files, I use the database
18:08:21pondlifeIt caches the directory structure
18:08:37pondlifeSo if Rockbox wants to check if a file exists, it doesn't need to spin up the disk
18:08:48pondlife(for example)
18:09:09amiconnHahaha, good comparison ;)
18:09:11pondlifeThe question being - what is Rockbox looking for between buffers?
18:09:34LambdaCalculus37A very good comparison, indeed. :)
18:09:35n1sbut it really shouldn't be chaecking for aa on every trackchange and at least not when the wps doesn't use it...
18:09:51pondlifeIt's not quite SMARTDRV, that's how I originally envisaged buffering.c.
18:10:05pondlifeIt might not be AA
18:10:29rasherAA just seems an obvious first guess, but if your wps doesn't even support AA, it's probably not it
18:10:32pondlifeThere may be another file check in there somewhere (probably in the track unbuffer callback)
18:10:39rasher(the latter part being directed at n1s)
18:11:36amiconnShould be easy to find out with logf. Just log what file(s) are accessed
18:11:50Horschtinteresting... dircache DOES solve my issue
18:11:55pondlifeOr run the sim with your config...
18:12:02*amiconn didn't experience this 'spinup at each track change' so far
18:12:08pondlifethe sim will display every file open attempt
18:12:16pondlifeamiconn: Do you not use dircache?
18:12:40Horschti'll retry, just to make sure
18:12:54Horschtthen post to FS
18:13:22amiconnpondlife: I do use it nowadays, except on X5 and mini
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18:13:49pondlifeI've just disabled dircache and rebooted, still no sign of spinups on every track change
18:14:00pondlifeMust be something more to it
18:14:13Horschthm... I just today switched my WPS, maybe it was WPS related.
18:14:26pondlifeAh, it only does it when the WPS is displayed
18:14:36pondlifeIf you sit in the browser it doesn't
18:14:42n1smine does it in the menu too...
18:14:43scorche|shtoffe82: yes...was a mispaste ;)
18:14:46pondlifeMy WPS definitely predates AA
18:14:46Horschtwell, no idea if it does in the browser or not
18:16:11pondlifeIf I go to the menu I don't get spinups
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18:16:26HorschtI do, though
18:16:35Horschtbut only with dircache disabled
18:16:51pondlifeYou're using cabbiev2 still?
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18:17:29Horschtno, i today switched to rayborraido_OB, but I'll switch to cabbiev2 and retry with dircache
18:17:50Horschti'll post details in FS, once I am done
18:18:01smilerhi, just a quick one, does rockbox for v5.5 ipod support realaudio? :?
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18:18:31markunno, rockbox doesn't support real audio
18:18:31n1sthe sim opens nvram.bin on every trackchange, maybe some bug has crept in making it save/open that?
18:18:58markunwe do support ac3 which is inside many .rm files
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18:19:40smilero i c
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18:20:32markunthere is also an open source implementation (but not ported to rockbox) of the cook codec also used by Real
18:20:54smilerwanted a way to dump my radio4 rm grabs onto something portable .. if ipod doesn't do it i might get an archos media player some time in future, not sure what one to get tho .. :/ i guess i will have to find out what is inside the rm files i have
18:22:26markundo you have a link to such a file?
18:22:36smilersure thx, one sec
18:22:54smilerbasically anything from here ..
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18:25:34markunsmiler: they use the cook codec, so it's not possible to play them in rockbox for now
18:25:47smilerah ok. thanks for looking for me.
18:25:57markunno problem
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18:26:57smileri guess that means a different portable device. one that plays videos and most codecs without much of a problem, i think i might go archos, anyone have any recommendiations? something around the same size as ipod video and that can go on car windscreen? :S
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18:27:27smileri seem to have a .rockbox folder on my ipod but it's been a while and it's not in the OS loader .. anything i have to put in the main folder to get rockbox working again?
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18:28:07krazykitsmiler, as this is an on-topic chat about rockbox, we'll recommend a rockbox player. as for the loader, it sounds like you just need to install the bootloader (and grab an updated build); the instructions are in the manual
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18:30:25smilerok that's great. is there an archos you can recommend that i can use rockbox with and i will get the bootloader and the manual for the ipod .. thanks x
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18:32:34scorche|shsmiler: the archos units that rockbox works on are quite old and are not the same sort you are thinking of ;)
18:32:40LambdaCalculus37smiler: The only Archos models that work with Rockbox are the old Jukebox series, and the Ondios.
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18:34:29smileroh dear i think it's moved on a bit since then .. i loved those old players .. how about iriver?
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18:35:03scorche|shsmiler: all the devices rockbox runs on are listed on the front page
18:35:12LambdaCalculus37smiler: And on the link I gave you.
18:35:27smileroh i have the list
18:35:28smilerthank you
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18:50:06jhMikeSHorscht: any chance to test a small patch on 5g using the bleeding edge build?
18:50:36Horschtlatest svn rev, you mean=
18:51:11jhMikeSyes"> <= what I just corrected in the latest revision may be the reason for the trouble *crosses fingers*
18:53:00Horschti'll give it a whirl and tell you
18:53:12Horschtgonna take a few minutes to check out and compile
18:54:58smilerthank you for the advice see you soon x
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19:22:42HorschtjhMikeS, i didn't notice any disk thrashing, buffering is now as fast as pre 16105. Only thing I noticed: on the first buffering after poweron, it starts playing the first song, then "stutters"
19:22:52Horschtonly on first buffering/first song
19:24:43jhMikeSI think that could just be a small priority issue. Mind testing a patch with a small priority bump as well?
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19:27:45Horschtwell, sorry. No I dont mind testing it :)
19:28:17jhMikeSHorscht: I understand :). Same link. Remove the old one first.
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19:42:11Horschtsame stuttering, jhMikeS
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19:43:42jhMikeSjust on the very first buffering ever but you can stop playback and it doesn't do it again?
19:43:57jhMikeSstop then restart
19:44:07Horschthm... good question... testing ... :)
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19:46:57jhMikeSI have a feeling it won't be an issue once I get done with other threading work anyway. I only discovered this last problem because I was working on something else.
19:47:17Horschtstuttering after stop/restart as well
19:48:09Horschtbut it did not sutter for me when refilling the buffer during playback... if you understand what I am trying to say
19:48:10jhMikeSI'm not really too surprised that initial fill would have an issue
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19:51:45jhMikeSI suppose I'll wait for a more appropriate time to apply that change then
19:52:03gevaertsdesowin: thanks. I guess I have enough info now
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19:54:10*gevaerts now tries to write a simple partitionner
19:54:45jhMikeSActually, now my e200s backlight takes a bit to come back on but that's expected as well (it's at a low priority for some reason when UI element should be rather equal).
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19:59:35pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: I experienced the track skipping on my c250 now as well. I noticed that it seems to skip as much tracks ahead as should be buffered (what track count in the buffering debug screen tells me afterwards) - if that is 5, it skipped 5 tracks ahead in the playlist etc.
20:01:51pixelmacould this be the same for you?
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20:03:15rasherDomonoky, bluebrother: Does rbutil cache themes?
20:03:28LambdaCalculus37pixelma: I haven't tried playing any tracks on my c240 with the new revision, but my iPod video is exhibiting that behavior at odd times.
20:04:44pixelmawas just asking if you could confirm the track count observation because the 3...4 times it did this now is not a proof yet
20:05:01pixelmaI mean after I noticed that
20:05:16LambdaCalculus37pixelma: In that case, I can confirm it.
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20:07:09bluebrotherrasher: yes, if you have the download cache enabled
20:07:48pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: wondering if the same folders are affected that had the "skip 3rd track problem" but unfortunately this is not this easy and quick to see...
20:08:28rasherbluebrother: how smart is the cache? Does it check Last-modified, or does it simply match filenames?
20:08:36LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Seems that not every album I play has the "skip nth track" problem. But the ones that exhibit it the most are my FLAC albums.
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20:08:46*amiconn wonders whether people with a relatively low-res screen are annoyed by the svn revision that was added to the svn tables on the website
20:09:17*scorche|sh always just hovered over the "diff" on the table to see the revision
20:09:30rasheramiconn: I'm not bothered at 1024x768
20:09:34bluebrotherrasher: it only matches filenames.
20:09:45*amiconn did the same and hence deems that revision number display unnecessary
20:10:00LambdaCalculus37amiconn: I'm not bothered by it; my Nokia 770 is 800x480 and it doesn't annoy me there.
20:10:05rasherbluebrother: so if say a theme file was updated, it would not get redownloaded
20:10:09Lloreanamiconn: It's a lot harder to hover over it on some mobile devices.
20:10:15LloreanAnd honestly, it doesn't make the table any wider for me.
20:10:18*desowin did the same as scorche|sh, and I'm annoyed a bit by that revision number in 'what' table, and 1280x1024 here
20:10:23*Llorean accesses that page frequently with a VERY low resolution screen. =P
20:10:31*linuxstb finds the revision distracting in the current location, and finds it useless...
20:10:32*bluebrother notes "make cache better" on todo-list.
20:10:36amiconnThe hovering doesn't work though if a revision *only* adds and/or deletes files
20:10:48pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: yes, that's what I had with the "skip 3rd track". Do you always have problems in the same folders or are there differences as well (haven't listened enough yet to answer that for me)?
20:11:00rasherbluebrother: something to keep in mind at least. I don't know if scorche has plans for allowing theme updates though
20:11:07bluebrotherthe revision could be inside of the title attribute of the table cell
20:11:27Lloreanamiconn: What about if the "Subversion" link above the table said "Subversion - Current rXXXXX" and then people could just do mental math?
20:11:34LloreanInstead of having it in the table?
20:11:44*scorche|sh should see about adding better themability support to
20:12:13linuxstbHow about making the date/time a link to this page?
20:12:49scorche|shrasher: currently, it drops it all into a temp directory, then i simply do an overwrite
20:13:07Lloreanlinuxstb: I'd really rather not have to follow a link to see the revision, if at all possible.
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20:13:14rasherscorche|sh: so an updated theme which rbutil won't download could happen
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20:13:28rasher(due to caching)
20:13:40scorche|shand by the sounds of it, likely would for those who produce that behavior
20:14:14pixelmabluebrother: I also have a rbutil question - I read the installation.tex files and of course some are talking about backing up the original firmware files? Will rbutil do that too and if so where would it store the files?
20:14:37pixelmascratch the first "?" :)
20:14:40scorche|shthe repository could be much more automated, which could also implement certain tags for rbutil..
20:15:38scorche|shi can definitely see people whining about rbutil not updating the cache
20:15:40Domonokypixelma this is bootloader installation for which device ?
20:15:58LambdaCalculus37pixelma: The problem is always in the same folder, and I have a few odd folders that do not consistently have this problem (i.e. the problem happens randomly).
20:16:06pixelmaDomonoky: for example H10s and Gigabeat
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20:18:27pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: ah ok, will keep an eye on it
20:18:31Domonokypixelma: for gigabeat it just renames the original in WIMG01.DAT.ORIG
20:19:45Domonokyon h10 we rename it to OF.mi4 (also used for dual boot)
20:20:08Domonokyso no backup to the pc... but it keeps the original files on the device..
20:20:47pixelmayes, but the manual installation instruction give the advice to keep a backup additionally
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20:24:47Domonokymaybe we should add this to rbutils bootloader install..
20:24:57bluebrotherpixelma: yes, but that's the manual installation. We trust our software ;-)
20:25:09amiconnIs there a specific reason to keep a separate copy of the OF?
20:25:12bluebrotherbut it might be good to add a backup feature, that's right.
20:25:48amiconnI mean, the OF can be obtained from the manufacturers website as well, or am I missing something?
20:25:49*bluebrother remembers the "backup my rb install before upgrading" idea
20:26:19pixelmaamiconn: I think so - in case the disk gets corrupted and someone wants to restore...
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20:28:06Lloreanamiconn: With regards to teh Gigabeat, I don't know if it can. Every time someone needs one, everyone recommends trying to get it from the CD that came with the player
20:28:34pixelmanot sure if it is always available from the manufacturer's site. I just remember that there wasa someone in the forums who had to (wanted to) restore his Gigabeat firmware files and had trouble finding them (and had no own backup)
20:29:02*BigBambi is pretty sure that the gigabeat F firmware is not available from toshiba's website
20:31:17*LambdaCalculus37 is curious as to if the original CDs for the Gigabeat F had the firmware on them
20:32:25toffe82I don't think and at one time you could order the update to version 3 for free
20:32:38pixelmaI mean the advice could be there in general but this might mean the person still has to fiddle with hidden and system files which s/he doesn't when using rbutil for the bootloader installation
20:32:41LloreanLambdaCalculus37: My understanding is that if you install the Gigabeat Room software, it has the firmware in a subdirectory somewhere
20:32:59toffe82if you install the original software on you computer, at the first connect , it save the firmware in a folder
20:33:46LambdaCalculus37Ah, I thought so. So if you know which folder to look in, you'll be able to find the Gigabeat's OF, in the event that you need to perform a recovery.
20:34:04BigBambiOnly if you have previously installed gigabeat room and connected to it though it seems
20:34:19BigBambiI never have for instance
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20:37:54toffe82here it is :
20:38:20BigBambihere too:
20:38:30*BigBambi takes it back
20:38:45BigBambiTakes back it not being there that is
20:38:47LambdaCalculus37BigBambi: I was just about to say, too... :)
20:39:08toffe82the on of HK is fir asian version ?
20:39:20toffe82I think so
20:39:27BigBambiI didn't actually download it
20:40:55BigBambiThey certainly don't go out of their way to help their customers
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20:45:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:51:05pixelmaso the firmware file is available, no need for a backup? Although that wouldn't hurt...
20:51:47BigBambiI'd still back up though - the Toshiba website is a bloody nightmare
20:51:58BigBambiSo much easier just to have the small back up
20:52:03LambdaCalculus37Yeah, making a backup is a wise idea.
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20:55:42pixelmathen it would become an rbutil feature request
20:55:58jhMikeSNico_P: How urgent are the messages from the pcm buffer? A queue safe for use by that would need to have message polled for only.
20:56:13Domonokypixelma: any idea where on the pc rbutil should put the backup ?
20:57:02Nico_PjhMikeS: I don't know
20:58:09pixelmaDomonoky: not sure.. maybe in the rbutil directory (if I remember correctly that there is one)?
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20:59:17My_Sichi all
20:59:20Domonokypixelma: application dir isnt good, because that might not be writeable on linux... maybe somewhere in the home dir..
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21:03:12pixelmamaybe let it create a directory in the home dir with a very descirptive name e.g. "Gigabeat Original Firmware" and in it the actual .dat file, if that is possible?
21:03:13 Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:03:19My_SicIs it normal that only the first song I select in a list is updated for the trackcount and autoscore ??? All the other aren't updated.
21:03:41Domonokypixelma: should be possible...
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21:04:38pixelmaMy_Sic: I believe there was a bug report and I thought it was recently fixed. But I don't use this feature so can't tell for sure
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21:05:00My_Sicok i will search in the bug report
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21:09:51*gevaerts gets more and more confused by usb mass storage and scsi specs
21:10:51*petur joins gevaerts, but about compact flash
21:11:15*gevaerts suggests to access this CF card over UMS
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21:13:40jhMikeSNico_P: guess I'll just try something out then :)
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21:19:18Domonoky_pixelma: rbutil now makes a backup of the OF for h10 and gigabeat .. :-)
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21:22:12bluebrotherDomonoky_: urgh. I really don't like a tool creating arbitrary folders in my home dir
21:22:37bluebrotherat least, it should be able to turn that feature off. Or better, allow the user to choose the location for the backup
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21:22:49Domonoky_bluebrother: do you have a better idea for the backup location ?
21:22:57bluebrotheralso, have you thought about a user updating the bootloader? He might overwrite his backup with the current bootloader
21:23:33Domonoky_it just makes the backup, if there is no renamed OF file on the device..
21:23:42LloreanI have about a billion .blah type folders in my home folder from myriad linux apps. It seems a pretty common practice, I think.
21:23:55Domonoky_so if you update your bootloader, it wont overwrite the backup..
21:24:10bluebrotherLlorean: yes, for dot folders. Not for visible folders.
21:24:32LloreanSo why nto make the backup folder invisible?
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21:24:38LloreanThen just have them use RBUtil to restore the backup, too.
21:24:48Domonoky_bluebrother: should i add a . ? (what about windows) ?
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21:27:33rasherWhy not just prompt the user for somewhere to save the backup? (and allow him to cancel)
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21:28:22bluebrothersec, phone
21:28:30pixelmasounds good
21:29:11stripwaxI'd much rather be asked than have a windows app automatically save cached backups I don't know about to a place I don't know about..
21:29:16*Domonoky_ doesnt like it... (it would need a Dialog box from the bootloader installation, and what about console interface? )
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21:29:38rasherThat also means that the user is aware that a backup has been made, and knows where it's stored
21:30:09rasherDomonoky_: Can't the console interface ask stuff?
21:30:10*Domonoky_ doesnt want to put GUI elements into the bootloader install... its nicely seperated at moment... :-/
21:30:28Domonoky_rasher: sure it can, but this means #ifdef ing..
21:30:38stripwaxor optional arg?
21:30:58rasherI really don't think a backup that the user has no clue exists is a good solution
21:31:18*bluebrother back
21:31:38bluebrotherwell, how about adding a button to the bootloader install dialog?
21:31:45Domonoky_should i go back to before without extra backup ( it already renames the originals on device instead of overwriting) ? :-)
21:31:47rasherI suppose you could tell the user "A backup has been made in <foo>", but I bet that's prone to getting ignored
21:31:58bluebrother(install) (cancel) (backup old bl)?
21:32:14Domonoky_bluebrother: there is no bootloader install dialog ? .. :-)
21:32:26bluebrotherthere is a confirmation dialog ;-)
21:32:59rasherOh by the way, would it be possible to replace "Install" with "Update" where appropriate if rbutil detects that Rockbox is already installed?
21:33:19Domonoky_rasher: only the naming ?
21:33:19bluebrothersure. Sounds like a nice idea.
21:33:48rasherDomonoky_: I mean that the user will be looking for an option to update, assuming he's already installed
21:34:03rasherNot knowing that install and update means the same
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21:34:44bluebrotherwell, first of all we could replace the "Install" tab by "Install / Upgrade"
21:34:48Domonoky_then maybe it would be better to just name it "Install/Update", and dont dynamically rename it ?
21:35:30bluebrotherdynamically renaming could be confusing, so maybe using both terms is better
21:35:44stripwaxalso simpler
21:35:52bluebrotherthat too ;-)
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21:36:18bluebrotheronly drawback is that that tab will get rather wide due to its title. But I think we can deal with that ;-)
21:36:24rasherThat also works (I just love when software figures out what I want - and there's no way I'll want to "install" once I've already done that)
21:36:35Domonoky_we could also make an extra update button/tab, which does the same as install *hehe*
21:36:48rasherDomonoky_: I almost like that idea better
21:36:55bluebrotherwell, that tab shouldn't include the bootloader
21:37:11stripwaxrasher - I don't ..
21:37:14rasherbluebrother: why not? You can update the bootloader as well
21:37:29bluebrotherhmm, but an update could automatically include a backup of the old build
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21:37:39bluebrothercorrect, but how often is that needed?
21:37:58*bluebrother agrees with stripwax
21:38:21rasherThen it's settled
21:38:41bluebrotheran update could also try to update all installed packages −− voice, themes, etc.
21:39:09bluebrothermaybe make it figure out the installed and available versions and give the user a list where he can check the parts he wants to upgrade
21:39:13bluebrothersimilar to the uninstall window
21:39:57bluebrotherfor that to work easily, we could write the download url to the installation configuration
21:40:24*Domonoky_ would really like to see someone polishin rbutils UI, it also needs more explaining splashes / texts..
21:40:42*bluebrother agrees
21:40:53rasherAnd all-tango icons!
21:40:55bluebrotherI'd also like to have some internal polishing.
21:41:05bluebrotherwhy not?
21:41:30bluebrotherall-tango icons.
21:41:32*Domonoky_ is missing time... t
21:41:45bluebrotherhehe ... you're not the only one.
21:42:04*bluebrother has a bit of time tomorrow, waiting for the telecom guy
21:42:20rasherbluebrother: the voice icons are "wrong"
21:42:31stripwaxrasher - they're mine
21:42:39bluebrotheroh, and I found a nasty bug: if you enable offline mode rbutil will crash if you open the themes dialog
21:43:01bluebrotherrasher: I'm aware of that. (that "why not?" wasn't a question ...)
21:43:16rasherAh, now I understand.
21:43:34bluebrotherhopefully I'll can fix that tomorrow. But it's not a common setup anyway.
21:43:39*Domonoky_ likes the voice icons.. specially crafted for rbutil :-)
21:43:44stripwaxyep :-)
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21:44:00rasherDomonoky_: but in a completely different style than the rest
21:44:03stripwaxrasher - is tango a style guide as well as a free collection?
21:44:05bluebrotherstripwax: how about all-stripwax icons? ;)
21:44:13rasherstripwax: indeed it is
21:44:19*stripwax is missing time too ..
21:44:23Domonoky_maybe we should replace the normal tango icons.. and put stripwax to work.. *hehe*
21:44:26rasherThis was the best I could do without having to draw anything myself:">
21:44:44rasher(just stealing bits from gnome-icon-theme)
21:45:03bluebrotherrasher: shouldn't that be dap-kiss.png? *g*
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21:45:17rasheryeah, I think the lips came off a kiss-emoticon
21:45:37stripwaxrasher - got a link (to tango). sorry if that's a really stupid question.. tango is not something I know about
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21:51:34bluebrotherhmm, do we have usbids of the sansa's v2 available? Would be interesting to know −− if they differ from v1's we could use them ...
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21:52:21rasherThat might avoid some support issues
21:52:36bikedude880Are there any objections to someone attempting to write an HFS+ driver for the minority of MacPod users?
21:52:49jhMikeSNico_P: a viable method =>">
21:52:54bluebrotheryep. Just had the idea when reading a forum post
21:53:18bluebrotherbikedude880: I don't think so, but I also don't think there will be much interest in it.
21:53:27bluebrotherbut if you want to try, go ahead ;-)
21:53:56rasherMight mean binsize increase for no gain for almost all users
21:54:15bluebrotherwell, it could get ifdef'ed
21:54:20bikedude880Config file fat/hfs, not both at the same time
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21:57:09Lloreanbikedude880: How 'bout finishing up work on making iPodPatcher able to convert HFS+ iPods instead?
21:58:22*bikedude880 shudders
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21:58:57*bluebrother wonders if the reason for wanting hfs+ support is a bad fat support in macos
21:59:44Horschtdoes macos really have a bad fat support?
21:59:52bikedude880Nah, I just don't like the 4GB size limit in FAT32... I store a lot of files on my iPod as well as music :)
22:00:08bluebrotherI heard of it being bad. Haven't experienced it myself though.
22:00:16Horschtmulti volume archives, bikedude880 :p
22:00:25LloreanOr a second "data" partition
22:00:33*gevaerts suggests XFS
22:00:38bluebrotherext3 support ;-)
22:00:47bluebrotheror even ext4?
22:00:49*rasher coughs
22:00:55LloreanHorscht: MacOS is known for taking exceedingly long amounts of times to mount a FAT32 drive, for some reason.
22:01:02Horschtbluebrother, basicaly the same, no?
22:01:31Horschtmaybe Apple wants to discriminate FAT users
22:01:32bluebrotherwell, ext4 is the new upcoming version ... afaik it has quite some differences to ext3
22:01:45Horschtyes, but i think it's bw compatible
22:01:58Horschti.e. you can mount an ext4 FS as ext3
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22:02:09Horschtof course, without the ext4 features
22:02:18bluebrotherI'm not too familiar with that. I guess so, as that also works for ext3 -> ext2
22:02:40Horschtyeah, that's why I was assuming the same for ext4 -> ext3
22:03:02bluebrotherwe'll see. For now I'm quite fine with ext3 on my workstation.
22:03:17stripwaxext2 would be an easier implementation in rb
22:03:30HorschtI am not even sure if mine is ext3 or ext2
22:03:39bluebrotherstripwax: compared to ext3 or hfs+?
22:03:47*Llorean thinks we should stick to one filesystem.
22:04:17bluebrotherah. Of course.
22:04:23Horschtas far as I understood, the reason for using fat was to keep the kernel size of rockbox small, no?
22:04:31LloreanHorscht: No
22:04:34bluebrotherbut I also agree that adding another filesystem won't be a real benefit.
22:04:37LloreanIt's more for compatibility.
22:04:57LloreanYou can plug a FAT32 formatted player into the vast majority of computers and not need to install anything special to use it.
22:05:08bluebrotherHorscht: on windows, you can use FAT ... or NTFS, which isn't quite well-known and much more complex.
22:05:09HorschtI meant for using fat only
22:05:11Lloreanvast majority of _home_ computers.
22:05:18bluebrotherI think the choice is rather easy.
22:05:32rasherBesides, some of our supported platform's bootloaders absolutely require FAT iirc
22:05:37LloreanHorscht: Well if you have more than one, A) Kernel gets bigger, B) Maintenance of code gets more complex.
22:05:42gevaertsAnd as long as most or all OFs do FAT, there's not much choic if you want dual boot
22:05:48Horschtwll, there's an ext2/3 driver for windows ;p
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22:06:07*Horscht runs and hides
22:06:11bluebrotherthere are two even. Both have issues
22:06:17Nico_PjhMikeS: does it make any noticeable change ?
22:06:17amiconnOn many targets, there are further reasons to stick with vfat
22:06:24*bluebrother used both drivers already.
22:07:15Horschti only used one. only occasionaly, though
22:07:32amiconnBuschel: around?
22:07:51bluebrotheranyway, time to go. bye.
22:08:00 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
22:08:02jhMikeSNico_P: I hope it won't normally but ensure that the kernel doesn't get trashed.
22:08:27dionoeapixelma: Hi. what was the bug you wanted me to have a look at?
22:08:33Nico_Pa noble goal
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22:10:58pixelmadionoea: moving a track in the playlist on my Ondio displays the wrong one during the moving "animation" but seems to move the right one (didn't see this effect on my Sansa yet...).
22:11:16dionoeaah right, I'll check that right away.
22:12:08pixelmathanks :)
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22:12:14jhMikeSNico_P: I just wanted it checked to see if anything turns weird because of message order changes
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22:14:19Nico_PjhMikeS: btw, did your latest commit fix any "real world" problems?
22:15:20fyrestormrockbox commit fixing global economy?! one can only dream :D
22:15:21jhMikeSNico_P: big time 1) 5g isn't slowed by mutex use 2) threads are scheduled correctly which is extremely evident in running plugins during playback
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22:19:31crzyboysterI am designing the default theme for the mrobe 100. The screen resolution is 160x128x1 and I am simply modifiying the 160x128x2 version. 160x128x1 means that the length of the screen is 160 and height is 128 and here's where I need some clarification.
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22:20:09crzyboysterWould it mean that only black and white can be shown on the screen? No shades of gray?
22:20:16Febscrzyboyster: correct.
22:21:13crzyboysterHmm. When I am finished with it, I will upload it to the tracker and hopefully someone can fix up the graphics as they probably won't turn out do good...
22:21:34*gevaerts has his doubts on the sanity of the Windows XP usb mass storage driver
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22:24:09crzyboysterWhat would be the easiest way to make the image from 160x128x2 to 160x128x1?
22:24:45rasherconvert -depth 1 inputfile outputfile
22:25:06Domonoky:-) but perhaps this wont look too good..
22:25:22crzyboysterHow would it be possible in photoshop? Batch convert with what option?
22:25:39Horschtcolor depth 1bit
22:25:45LloreanWhy not use the artwork from the remote control versions as a starting point?
22:26:01LloreanOr the recorder version, even.
22:26:21crzyboysterSo that would mean making a whole new wps instead of just renaming/modding images?
22:26:31pixelmachose a different colour depth (experiment with different dithering methods Photoshop provides)
22:26:35rasherAny Sansa v2 owners around? Please check and reply back if you have a moment
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22:27:11Lloreancrzyboyster: Well, if the images depend at all on shades of gray to convey information, you'll have to redo them anyway
22:27:17pixelmaLlorean: guess the size should be the same as in the greyscale 160x128 variants?
22:27:39Lloreanpixelma: True, but he should look at the existing mono ones for style cues.
22:28:11crzyboysterHow about renaming the 160x128x2 version and converting the 160x128x2 images to 160x128x1 and somebody else would be able to fix it all up?
22:28:15pixelmabut if they should look good that probably means manual editing anyways (which is what I would do, more work but better control of the outcome)
22:28:41Lloreancrzyboyster: If you're not going to do the actual work, I'm not really sure what good that does anyawy.
22:29:08pixelmabesides I think the greyscale icons could do with some polishing too
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22:31:24crzyboysterI will start now and probably redo a lot of things according to the archos version.
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22:39:52dionoeapixelma: i can't reproduce your bug with a dummy playlist in the h1x0 sim
22:40:05dionoeaor maybe i misunderstood how to reproduce it
22:40:19dionoeaor maybe it only happens in the main playlist
22:40:31pixelmamaybe it's a hwcodec thing (as I said I only observed it on my Ondio not the Sansa)
22:40:59dionoeaThat code isn't really hw dependant :/
22:41:03dionoeaI'll build an ondio sim
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22:41:10dionoeawould that also happen on the recorder sim?
22:41:28pixelmaI'd guess so
22:42:35pixelmaI've seen some #if (CONFIG_CODEC != SWCODEC) in playlist.c so I thought there might be differences... although I don't really understand the code...
22:43:35*amiconn summons LinusN
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22:43:40dionoeaI'm not very familiar with that code ... but i'll have a look (if i can reproduce the bug)
22:43:59dionoeahum ... test_codec.c doesn't compile for the recorder sim :D
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22:46:39stripwaxgevaerts - how's it going?
22:47:21*amiconn wonders what the TEA1211 does in the ipods, and if we need to program it somehow for proper usb operation
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22:50:31dionoeapixelma: seems to be working fine in the recorder sim. I'll try an ondio one
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22:51:42pixelmaI'll try too but I remember this wasn't the first time I saw it
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22:54:01pixelmaweird, seems to work now... :\
22:54:26dionoeapixelma: maybe you need to do a specific combination
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22:55:01dionoeaAnyway i'll stop building sims for the time being and i'll test LinusN's patch
22:55:03gevaertsstripwax: I just did some tests with windows. Results are pretty clear. Back ports work great, front ports work horribly slow.
22:55:20stripwaxwhat about side ports?
22:55:35stripwax(btw : not sure what you mean)
22:55:41pixelmadionoea: yeah, I'll try to figure it out - could take a while but thanks anyway :)
22:55:51dionoeayou're welcome
22:56:31gevaertsstripwax: Most modern PCs have USB ports on the back and the front. Those on the back are wired directly to the controller via traces on the mainboard. Those on the front are wired with bad cables
22:57:31stripwaxI see what you mean. Mine has a breakout board for the front ports, although I get good speed. My laptop only has side ports :)
22:57:39 Quit Soap_ ()
22:58:04stripwaxalso have a separate pci usb2.0 card, in addition to the built in ports
22:58:39gevaertsIf your device provides good clean signals, the front ports will work. If you don't have clean signals (which seems to be the case on some of the PP targets, but not all), front ports are hopeless
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22:59:33stripwaxgevaerts - which PP targets (ipod?). Does OF perform any better/worse than rb in that respect?
23:00:38gevaertsstripwax: The OF works fine, so it's an initialization issue somewhere. One theory is that PP5020 works fine and PP502[12] doesn't.
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23:01:28gevaertsstripwax: H10 works fine, Sansa c250 has problems, ipod mini 2nd gen has problems. I don't have data on other ipods yet
23:03:49 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
23:03:55stripwaxgevaerts - ah, I guess we were talking at cross purposes. I interpreted your having doubts about windows usb sanity as being the thing you were talking about now - that's a entirely secondary issue then!
23:04:08 Join lee-qid [0] (
23:04:41gevaertsstripwax: yes, that's different. I was looking at a trace taken from windows talking to the sansa OF.
23:06:15 Join Rob2222 [0] (
23:07:46amiconnIt might also be some voltage regulator init
23:08:56amiconnThat's what I want to ask LinusN - whether he found some i2c write to address 0x10 in his G5 rom disassembling session(s)
23:09:05 Quit ol_schoola ()
23:09:23amiconn0x10 would be the TEA1211
23:10:01amiconngevaerts: Do you have access to equipment for measuring physical signal levels / waveforms?
23:11:04 Join TMM [0] (n=hp@
23:12:03gevaertsamiconn: I'm not sure. There is equipment at work, (up to 15GHz sampling if you need it), but I'm not familiar with it, so I'm dependent on other people there
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23:13:40 Quit petur ("real life calls")
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23:15:27pixelmareminds me a bit of the weird battery voltage that I get to see in the "view battery" debug screen on my c200 (no USB enabled build)
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23:16:38 Part Domonoky
23:17:15pixelmaI mean when I hold select while plugging USB to get it into charging mode
23:18:26gevaertsI'm not sure what numbers to expect there. Here it currently says 4.612V
23:19:39pixelmaamiconn once said if 4,6 Volts + was true, the battery would already be exploded...
23:19:44 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
23:19:47*gevaerts takes cover
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23:22:04pixelmait's also interesting to watch how it develops right after the connect - it seems sane in the beginning (3.9V here) and stays this way for another minute or so, then suddenly jumped to 4.3V and rises further to 4.6 real quick
23:22:57gevaertsI guess also the reason why it stops charging too soon. Anyway I'll leave that to people who actually understand batteries
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23:23:34 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:28:01 Join faemir [0] (
23:28:15faemirCan someone tell me what files I need to delete the database?
23:28:26faemirto delete to delete the database? *
23:30:31 Quit faemir ("Leaving")
23:30:41*gevaerts got sd-card hotplugging while connected to work
23:31:31gevaertsIt was something silly. The sd thread used to wait until disconnect (which makes sense for a hardware usb bridge)
23:32:09*preglow does the i just brewed a batch of porter dance
23:32:25preglowand more usb success too \o/
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23:34:19 Join ol_schoola [0] (
23:37:17 Join inkognito_O [0] (
23:37:29inkognito_Ohey guys
23:38:02inkognito_Owould someone support me using tcctool please?
23:38:11Aevumonly toshiba F series supported ?
23:38:22krazykitAevum, F and X series, for now
23:38:24Aevumthe series M i guess not
23:38:34Aevumwhats series x ?
23:38:37krazykitAevum, supported players are listed on the front page
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23:40:12jhMikeSpreglow: you're running your own microbrew now? :)
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23:42:22 Part Aevum ("Don't follow me")
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23:43:10 Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@
23:44:23inkognito_Oi got a samsung k3 mp3-player .. booting it in recovery mode made windows identify it at removable device twice, but know it doesn't work anymore .. got anyone some idea how to solve that problem? you would make me a lucky man ;)
23:44:49BigBambiSorry, this channel is for Rockbox only
23:44:59BigBambiTry a samsung support site
23:45:12inkognito_Odoes rockbox not supply the tcc-drivers?
23:45:36 Quit DaCapn (Remote closed the connection)
23:45:58inkognito_Oi thought the tcc-drivers make windows identify a mtp-player like k3 as removable disk!?
23:46:06amiconngevaerts: Your sd thread fix has a problem - the sd thread no longer acknowledges the disconnect
23:46:07Bagderinkognito_O: "the tcc-drivers" ?
23:46:21preglowjhMikeS: yeah :)
23:46:39inkognito_Oyeah, the driver for tcctools
23:46:40preglowjhMikeS: my beer interest kind of just went along to its logical conclusion
23:46:44Bagderinkognito_O: for the k3, rockbox provides tcctool which is a neat way to start hacking rockbox for that device
23:47:12gevaertsamiconn: I'll fix it
23:47:15BigBambiinkognito_O: If you have problems, you really are better with a samsung related site I think
23:47:18inkognito_Osorry bagder, i didn't get that .. my english is not the best :\
23:47:44BigBambiinkognito_O: We have a tool that can help load code to start putting rockbox on the k3
23:47:52BigBambiBut not to do what you want
23:47:55Bagderinkognito_O: tcctool is "just" a tool to download and run (custom) code on a TCC target.
23:48:01 Quit Llorean (Client Quit)
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23:48:14 Quit africola ()
23:48:23amiconnus_wait_for_disconnect() not only blocks, but also does that acknowledge. If this isn't done, the next connection won't work (that is, it *should* not work. If it does, there's something wrong in the usb thread as well)
23:49:04inkognito_Ohmm .. but i need a driver called tcc.inf (from the tcctool-zipfile) to make windows identify my k3 as a removable device, don't I?
23:49:23 Quit conando (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:49:28Bagderinkognito_O: no
23:49:47Bagderat least I'm not aware of any such stunt
23:50:50inkognito_Ohum .. i got the information from a "tutorial"
23:50:55*jhMikeS though usb_acknowledge acked and usb_wait_for_disconnect just waited for a message to be posted
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23:51:08 Quit TMM (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:51:18Lloreaninkognito_O: Then perhaps you should ask the people providing the tutorial...
23:51:48 Quit perrikwp (Remote closed the connection)
23:51:56 Join Rob2222 [0] (
23:51:58Bagderinkognito_O: that tutorial doesn't say the "driver" makes your player appear as a "removable disk"
23:52:17inkognito_O@bagder .. but it does ;)
23:52:23*gevaerts thinks it's a good thing that some people watch commits like hawks
23:52:30Bagderinkognito_O: where?
23:52:54inkognito_Ostarting the player in recovery mode makes popping up a "found unknown hardware" dialogue
23:53:12inkognito_Oinstalling the tcc.inf driver makes windows identify the player as a removable disk
23:53:20inkognito_Oremovable device, i mean
23:53:21amiconnjhMikeS: usb_acknowledge acknowledges the *connect* event. usb_wait_for_disconnect waits for *disconnect* and also acknowledges it
23:53:53 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:54:06inkognito_Oso, i'm not that skilled in computer-stuff, but that's me conclusion
23:54:20Bagderinkognito_O: anyway, the driver doesn't do magic so it can't offer that
23:54:25amiconnActually, usb_acknowledge can acknowledge both event, and is used internally by usb_wait_for_disconnect
23:54:47jhMikeSamiconn: righto. that can be done externally from that anyway.
23:54:58 Join Rob2222 [0] (
23:55:04amiconnIt can, but it shouldn't
23:55:40inkognito_Ohum .. okay, i didn't expect tcctool being a wizard ;)
23:55:49 Join DaCapn [0] (
23:56:01jhMikeSwhat choice is there if a thread must attend to its own stuff while connected and also receive system events?
23:56:07inkognito_Obut this insight doesnt solves my problem :D
23:56:39amiconnjhMikeS: Then it must not use usb_wait_for_disconnect, and acknowledge both event types directly
23:57:14amiconnusb_wait_for_disconnect is a simplification for threads which have to stay blocked during usb
23:57:14jhMikeSthat's what I thought I conveyed by "externally" :)
23:57:54amiconnThen I misunderstood what you meant
23:58:09 Part abescully ("Leaving")
23:58:28 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:58:51stripwaxinkognito_O - I don't think we can solve your problem, as we don't support your mp3 player and we didn't write that tutorial..
23:58:59 Join Rob2222 [0] (

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