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#rockbox log for 2008-03-19

00:01:18midgeyKlevi: I hacked up the rockboy lcd code a bit to support the 4th gen. I never got it to a stage where I thought it was ready to be committed. I believe it's somewhere on the tracker
00:02:03midgeyah yes, FS #7546
00:03:00midgeyi think i'll spend some time after finals to get it in a committable state and then commit it to svn
00:03:03 Quit maxkelley (SendQ exceeded)
00:03:26 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:03:31Klevimidgey: I could try compileing it myself though?
00:03:49 Join CaptainKewl [0] (
00:04:02midgeyKlevi: sure, like i said the patch is on the tracker
00:04:21Klevi*nods* okay. I'll try it.
00:04:45midgeyi'd expect it to still apply cleanly; i don't think there have been any changes to rockboy since i posted the patch
00:04:45 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
00:04:56 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
00:04:58Klevi*nods again*
00:05:40 Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi)
00:07:11 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:07:29 Join MethoS- [0] (
00:08:35 Nick Klevi is now known as Klevi_busy (
00:11:00 Part toffe82
00:12:11 Join CyBergRind|w [0] (n=cbr@
00:12:23 Quit [CBR]Unspoken|w (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:12:23 Quit bughunter3 ("Leaving.")
00:15:01 Quit ender` (" Washing your car to make it rain doesn't work.")
00:16:46linuxstb_amiconn: Have you seen the 1g ROM dump?
00:17:25 Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> <- *I* use it, so it must be good!")
00:17:29amiconnThat was quick...
00:17:34*amiconn fetches the dump
00:18:10linuxstb_Seems to be missing the HwVr block that the other images have...
00:19:39 Quit devurandom (Remote closed the connection)
00:20:36pixelmais someone else able to view the diffs from the svn tables, for me it tries to open the page but after a while stops...
00:21:14bluebrotherpixelma: on the front page? Works for me.
00:21:16amiconnlinuxstb: Yes, and the HwId is ascii
00:21:52 Join spleenk [0] (
00:21:56*amiconn wonders how to handle that special rom... :/
00:21:59 Join crzyboyster [0] (n=6210f044@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:22:10pixelmabluebrother: yes, I meant the frontpage (also "last 12 months")
00:22:45*bluebrother discovers a stupid error upon his last commit
00:22:46pixelmaah, works again now, seems like complaining aloud helped...
00:23:07crzyboysterThe picture of the mrobe 100 on the builds pages looks too 2D... and all the others have a more clip-arty look to them.
00:23:23bluebrotherdoing commits half-asleep isn't a good idea at all ... :(
00:23:52bluebrothercrzyboyster: we don't have a svg (which is the base for the others) for the mrobe yet
00:24:05 Quit JdGordon|uni (" ajax IRC Client")
00:24:12 Quit gevaerts ("It's a day!")
00:24:16 Join JdGordon|uni [0] (i=82c20d6a@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:24:18scorche|shbluebrother: svgs are the base for the others?
00:24:43scorche|shoh...heh..ignore me
00:24:47pixelmabluebrother: could it be that tex doesn't like "\opt" broken into 2 lines?
00:24:51bluebrotheryes. The svgs from the manual are used to create pdf and png images
00:24:56*scorche|sh was thinking back to when we had actual images
00:25:15 Quit JdGordon|uni (Client Quit)
00:25:20 Join Dindojul [0] (n=53e4c0e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:25:24 Join JdGordon|uni [0] (i=82c20d6a@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:25:26crzyboysterDid someone crop the edges of the mrobe pic?
00:25:39bluebrotherat some point I scaled non-labelled images down for the website
00:25:48scorche|shcrzyboyster: it will be fixed..
00:26:05bluebrotherthe mrobe manual also lacks the button labels. We need an svg ...
00:26:14crzyboysterMy bad...
00:26:19linuxstb_amiconn: There is another way to get the hw revision though...
00:26:23bluebrotherpixelma: it should work as long as the braces are balanced
00:26:24 Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:26:28amiconnlinuxstb: oh?
00:26:45pixelmabluebrother: there must be another reason, trying to find out why the virtual keyboard button table doesn't work in the c200 manual (anymore, I think)
00:26:53 Join maxkelley [0] (
00:27:00 Quit crzyboyster ("CGI:IRC")
00:27:15bluebrotherpixelma: in svn?
00:27:22Dindojulamiconn: hi did you found my file?
00:27:36linuxstb_amiconn: The Apple bootloader places a "sysinfo" struct at the end of IRAM. Rockbox should be saving this and restoring it for Rolo to work with the original firmware. I tried some hacks to test it a while ago, and it didn't fix rolo'ing the original firmware, but it did seem to get a little further.
00:27:40Klevi_busypixelma: You mean for typing a file name out type scenario?
00:28:01amiconnDindojul: Yes, looking at it right now...
00:28:02 Join crzyboyster [0] (n=6210f044@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:28:15pixelmabluebrother: yes, you can see it in the online manual (or rather not see the table). I'm quite sure I committed a patch once that enabled it...
00:28:17linuxstb_amiconn: If you have a copy of the ipodlinux SVN, there's some code to process it in tools/ipodloader2/ipodhw.c
00:29:22crzyboysterShouldn't the "M:Robe 100" be called the "m:robe 100" pretty much everywhere on the site? Even Olympus has it in lowercase >
00:29:26amiconnThe question is whether this old ROM fills this struct
00:29:35 Join cool_walking_ [0] (
00:32:56 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (
00:33:35crzyboysterWhat does everyone think of the "m:robe:100" change idea?
00:33:50*shotofadds thinks getting tick tasks working on the D2 is progress enough for one day and goes to bed...
00:33:52bluebrothercrzyboyster: patience ...
00:34:40crzyboysterAs in what? Wait for people to respond?
00:35:02 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:35:10amiconnlinuxstb: I think doing the same in rockbox sounds like a good idea
00:35:18 Part shotofadds
00:36:34 Quit herrwaldo (Remote closed the connection)
00:37:04bluebrotherbesides, we should unify the usage of names in general. The manual uses Ipod while the front page iPod
00:37:08amiconnlinuxstb: Maybe we should just not touch the last 256 bytes of iram on ipods?
00:37:29bluebrothersimilar for iAudio vs. Iaudio etc.
00:37:51linuxstb_amiconn: That seems sensible (and simpler than copying it somewhere else).
00:37:59*amiconn thinks we should use the manufacturer's spelling
00:38:08amiconnThat is, iPod and iAudio, but Iriver
00:38:25bluebrotherIIRC Iriver was changed to iriver later
00:38:56bluebrotherthere was some discussion about this during the beginnings of the LaTeX manual
00:38:59*linuxstb_ remembers a long debate about Ipod/iPod...
00:39:08pixelmaI'm all for just typing everything with the first character uppercase, just like every name...
00:39:32 Quit crzyboyster ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:39:42 Join crzyboyster [0] (n=6210f044@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:39:43*scorche|sh votes for using manufacturer's spelling except in cases like the wiki page names where it is impossible
00:39:49linuxstb_pixelma: I agree - "iPod" is just silly...
00:40:12scorche|shif that is what they call it, then that is what it is...
00:40:15amiconnlinuxstb: Otoh, iram is more valuable than sdram
00:40:56pixelmascorche|sh: and what is with iRiver vs. iriver (I think that was how they changed, I could be wrong but there were changes)
00:41:01*linuxstb_ suggests writing the whole manual in capital letters to avoid this issue
00:41:21scorche|shpixelma: afaik, iriver is now correct
00:41:21bluebrotherlinuxstb_: why not use lower case letters only? ;-)
00:41:39linuxstb_bluebrother: That could work as well ;)
00:42:03bluebrotherfollowing the manufacturers spelling would require us to change our spelling every time the manufacturer chooses to change it.
00:42:12linuxstb_Hence the \dap macro...
00:42:32bluebrotheryep, that makes such things much easier.
00:43:10bluebrotherbut regardless of the way we write it it should be consistent. I.e. the website should follow the same convention as the manual
00:43:22*bluebrother got used to write "Ipod"
00:43:32scorche|shthey dont change *that* often
00:43:54scorche|shsed would be handy as well (depending on what it is run on)
00:44:01 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:44:20 Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら")
00:45:23 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:46:34bluebrotheryes ... my major point is that we should be consistent.
00:46:59scorche|shi agree..
00:47:29linuxstb_We _were_ consistent, but it seems the wiki has been gradually changed to become inconsistent...
00:47:42linuxstb_(someone didn't get the memo)
00:48:17*scorche|sh looks around for Marc
00:48:19bluebrotheroh, at least parts of the arguments are at LatexGuidelinesTalk
00:48:23pixelmayes, that's the first discussion I remember (talking to LambdaCalculus here)
00:48:58bluebrotherI don't think the front page followed the conventions we had set up for the manual at all
00:49:14pixelmachanging some Iaudios to iAUDIOS (which IMO even looks ugly... sorry couldn't resist)
00:50:01crzyboysterYes, the manufactur's name in this case...
00:50:11pixelmawithout the "s"...
00:50:31crzyboysterIt's a give and take situation
00:50:42linuxstb_crzyboyster: The issue is that we don't accept that manufacturers can change the rules of English...
00:50:43crzyboysterAnd yes, iAUDIO looks ugly beyond anything
00:50:45scorche|shurgh indeed...but technically, iAUDIO *is* correct
00:51:17pixelmascorche|sh: not if you only use it as name :P
00:51:18bluebrotherscorche|sh: thread hijacking?
00:51:20crzyboysterWell, they're the manufacturers... if they didn't make the players, we wouldn't have had rockbox on it, would be have?
00:51:31linuxstb_crzyboyster: So?
00:51:52scorche|shbluebrother: eh?
00:51:53bluebrothercrzyboyster: that doesn't require us to follow their stupid name writing "philosophy"
00:52:10crzyboysterIt's their naming choice. (Sorry, wow I started a fire)
00:52:16*linuxstb_ won't mention that the wiki writes LaTeX... ;)
00:52:23bluebrotherscorche|sh: should I consider this hijacking? It has nothing to do with the original thread
00:52:30scorche|shpixelma: eh...they get to pick their own name..if it is their choice then who are we to say they are wrong?
00:52:42*bluebrother points linuxstb_ to \LaTeX{} ;-)
00:52:48 Quit leox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:54:11scorche|shbluebrother: as it says in his signature, he is 11...but yes, he could use a scolding and an urging not to ask for "hacks" and to create new threads
00:54:47bluebrotherwell, I could also add to my sig that I'm 11 ... IMO that tells nothing.
00:55:41scorche|shi was just saying that to indicate it was likely non-malicious
00:56:13scorche|shand it is just a kid who needs to be told how things work 'round these parts
00:56:52bluebrotherhasn't he been told this a couple of times already?
00:57:37scorche|shlikely...we may need to be a bit harsher in the future on him if this continues..
00:57:39LloreanI don't think he's been explained the nature of "on-topic" though
00:57:51bluebrotherbut I might be as well be a bit too tired for good judgement here.
00:57:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:58:01LloreanWith younger people, you're probably going to need to cover each new rule violation from scratch.
00:58:22*bluebrother sighs
00:58:49crzyboysterI'm under the age of say, 16... and I guess I do need a few pointers every now and then
00:58:52 Quit Klevi_busy ("Sleep")
00:58:52LloreanThen again, I'm pretty sure when registering for the Rockbox forums you agree that you're 13+
00:59:14crzyboysterI'm above 13...
00:59:17scorche|shLlorean: that is true
00:59:32LloreanSo he really shouldn't be on our forums
00:59:41bluebrotherwhy the 13+? Is there a special reason for choosing 13?
00:59:46scorche|shUS law
00:59:49 Quit crzyboyster ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:59:56*scorche|sh tries to rmemeber the acronym
01:00:18bluebrotherwhat does the law tell? You must not use internet forums if less than 13?
01:00:36roolkubluebrother: what do you mean by missing button labels?
01:00:48scorche|shthats it
01:00:58bluebrothera bit OT: ;-)
01:01:08bluebrotherhow good our forums aren't that way
01:01:10*BigBambi goes to google COPPA
01:01:14pixelmascorche|sh: what's wrong in spelling a name just as a usual name, not like the manufacturer tries to. I don't think it's telling them they are wrong, it's just neutral... (not a strong opinion here and not a native speaker)
01:02:08bluebrotherroolku: interesting −− the last time I looked those were missing.
01:02:17bluebrotherseems I overlooked something.
01:02:45Lloreanbluebrother: You can't register for any website if you're below 13 without consent from your parents, which pretty much has to take the form of a written signed letter.
01:02:47 Join Absinthe [0] (
01:02:53scorche|shpixelma: i just look at it as if our name was RockBoX, i would like that to be respected and called as we intended...on reviews and popular sites, i would attempt to correct spellings to how we named it
01:03:21bluebrotherLlorean: ok, thanks for the info
01:03:37 Join Febs [0] (
01:03:49 Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU)
01:04:08 Join MethoS-- [0] (
01:04:11Lloreanbluebrother: It's a "Child protection" thing. Online predators, etc.
01:05:11scorche|shLlorean: well, we have an excuse for a permanent ban then should we need it..
01:05:34bluebrotherok ... but shouldn't we then address the fact that he claims to be under the required age?
01:05:41bluebrotheri.e. pm him about this?
01:05:49scorche|shtechnically, yes
01:06:20 Join MethoS- [0] (
01:06:27*scorche|sh heads off to finish up some work before he leaves for home
01:07:28FebsI suspect that since he no longer has an iPod and now has a Sansa Clip for which no "hacks" are available, he won't be on the forum much more anyway.
01:07:52bluebrotherI'll leave that for our forum admins and go for some sleep now :)
01:08:12 Quit bluebrother ("'nite")
01:10:33 Join DeltaDrone [0] (
01:11:07 Quit Absinthe ("Leaving")
01:12:08LloreanI'll "notice" it if he continues posting problematically, I suppose.
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01:13:56 Quit roolku ()
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01:27:18 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
01:27:25 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
01:30:01 Join Klevi [0] (
01:30:52KleviI have a heads up to those that itd concern about Mpeg player, Winff's download for version .291 has been moved.
01:31:07Kleviits no longer found on
01:32:26 Quit csc` ("Powering Off")
01:32:33pixelmachanging things in one tree and compiling in the other won't show me if they have an effect... too tired, one can tell... night
01:32:50KleviNight pixelma
01:33:08linuxstb_pixelma: You're not the first to do that...
01:33:08KleviWinffs download page is here:
01:33:54pixelmalinuxstb: thanks :)
01:34:23Klevi.. Runtime errors.. fun
01:34:41 Part pixelma
01:35:34 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
01:36:55 Join mchua [0] (n=mchua@conference/pycon/x-13edb943fff28363)
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01:38:22amiconnSame thing as yesterday - build system doesn't pick up a commit :(
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01:43:36 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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01:50:28KleviDoes anyone know what a proper sample rate would be for Audio Conversion to MPEG2 (Winff)
01:51:53linuxstb_What device are you running Rockbox on?
01:52:01 Join leox [0] (
01:52:22amiconnmepgplayer resamples, so any rate should work
01:52:35KleviIpod 4th gen grayscale
01:53:16 Quit JdGordon|uni (" ajax IRC Client")
01:53:41KleviWinff says, this −−>
01:54:26KleviI tried leaveing it blank, as well. said that value was also invalid for Mpeg 2
01:55:16cool_walking_I just use 44100
01:55:25linuxstb_Rockbox will resample it to 44100, so you may as well use that...
01:55:35 Quit DeltaDrone ()
01:57:22Klevithere we go, converting.
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02:40:31JdGordonanyone got a good name (thats not playlist) for .m3u files?
02:40:52JdGordonor a better name than playlist for the "current playlist"?
02:41:43 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
02:41:49cool_walking_Current queued tracks?
02:41:51Klevitry Songs I like.m3u
02:41:54 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
02:42:00cool_walking_I don'
02:42:06cool_walking_t thing that's what he's asking...
02:42:08KleviSongs i listen to with half an ear.m3u <- Lol
02:42:43JdGordonyeah, im talking about what the file is.. not what to name it
02:42:57JdGordonplaylists is nice and generic, but we need a way to tell which we are tlaking about
02:44:50cool_walking_maybe qualify "playlist" with something... "m3u playlist" vs "(I can't think of another word than) current playlist"
02:45:05 Quit Keypad (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:45:43JdGordonits too long though
02:46:00JdGordonneed this in the code... having more than 1 name is irritating
02:47:39 Quit mchua (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:50:41cool_walking_schedule, programme, sequence, etc. all sound terrible..
02:51:22cool_walking_Can you coin a word? :)
02:57:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:05:02 Join ctaylorr [0] (
03:11:25 Join webguest88 [0] (n=83ac630f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:12:19webguest88Hi all....a stupid question for a gigabeat owner out there.....does the F40 remote work in an F20?????
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03:20:14 Quit Klevi ("Sleep")
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03:42:01 Join webguest20 [0] (n=83ac630f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:42:38webguest20hi guys....just wondering if someone has tried to use the gigabeat F40 remote with the F20?????
03:43:11 Quit ctaylorr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:43:29krazykitwebguest20, i believe it should work fine.
03:44:27webguest20sweet......Im gonna go find out how much they are......thanks......questions been on my mind for quite a while now......
03:53:31Beta2KThere's no internal differences between the F gigabeats
03:53:37Beta2K(within reason)
03:54:19Beta2KSo a accessory for a F series Gigabeat should work with all of them
03:55:17Beta2KWith the exception of someone building something that can only fit a F10/20 as they are not as thick as the F40/60 due to only having one platter in the HD vs 2 in the F40/60
03:57:48 Join Davide-NYC [0] (
03:58:20Davide-NYCHey yo, congrats on the m:robe 100 port!
04:11:41 Join swimmer [0] (
04:11:46swimmerhi all
04:12:14swimmerall in a sudden rockbox stops to start if I try to switch on my iriver H340 ...
04:12:38swimmerI have to plug in the AC-adapter and press the start button to get the IRiver booted at all
04:12:52swimmerbut it boots the iriver software :-/
04:13:26swimmerto get the rockbox bootloader I have to plug in the USB-cable and then switch on the player ...
04:14:30Beta2KCan you cold-boot the iRiver?
04:14:48Beta2K(I don't have one, I know I need to coldboot my Gigabeat if I muck with the bootloader)
04:15:05swimmerwhat do you mean with cold-boot?
04:15:15Beta2KTurn the batery off
04:15:21 Join rvvs89_ [0] (
04:15:24Beta2KOr remove it
04:15:37Beta2Kand put it back/turn it on again
04:15:52swimmerhmpf - I have to open it then again :-/
04:16:11scorcheBeta2K: they have a reset button
04:16:19Beta2KOooh, nifty :)
04:16:24swimmernot tonight then - I'm very tired and a bit drunk ... so I'll better do that tomorrow ;-)
04:16:34swimmerbut It used to wrok guys
04:16:39Beta2KPush the reset button then :)
04:16:40swimmerit stopped all in a sudden
04:17:12Beta2KIf it's being put to sleep tho rather then turned off it could be waking in a weird state
04:18:28swimmerpushed the reset button (while switched on in iriver sw) to no avail
04:18:46swimmerit's switched off now and I can't switch it on ...
04:19:32*Beta2K heads off to the Rockbox iRiver manual
04:20:14swimmerI tried to reinstall the while package (bootloader + rockbox) with rbutil but it asks me for some firmware ...
04:20:28swimmernot sure what I should provide though :-/
04:22:43Beta2KYour record button isn't stuck is it?
04:23:39Beta2KThat's what it sounds like from the boot sequence...
04:24:33Beta2KIf you boot with a USB cable connected it becomes a USB mass storage device, if Rec is held it boots the iRiver firmware, otherwise it boots into Rockbox
04:25:43 Quit simonrvn ("Sage, Tobacco, Sweetgrass, Cedar")
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04:26:05swimmerhmm - didn't check that
04:26:17swimmerbut at least I got rbutil doing it's job now
04:26:57swimmerI downloaded the latest firmware (H300-1.29-KR.hex) and provided that to the updater and it worked
04:27:05swimmernow I have to reboot I guess ...
04:27:44swimmerstill nothing :-/
04:29:20 Quit argumentD (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
04:29:54Beta2KBut it boots to the bootloader USB mode?
04:30:58swimmerwithout AC-adapter no
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04:31:47swimmerif I plug in USB without AC-adapter I see very shortly the white (rockbox) display and then nothing
04:33:09Beta2KBut with the AC adaptor it goes to the USB mode or into Rockbox?
04:34:25swimmerif I plug in USB with AC-adapter it goes into the USB mode of the iriver software
04:35:17swimmerit's very weird since it used to work ...
04:35:19Beta2KAfter you loaded the firmware the last time did you hit reset?
04:36:01swimmerI loaded the firmware last time when I first installed rockbox (2 years ago)
04:36:08swimmerdidn't touch it since then
04:36:20swimmeruntil now (while talking to you) ...
04:36:40swimmerfirmware == H300.hex ?
04:36:51Beta2KBootloader actually :)
04:38:19swimmerthe bootloader sits in $IRIVER/.rockbox/build correct?
04:38:30swimmerand the firmware is H300.hex?
04:38:40Beta2KThe bootloader is flashed into the players memory
04:39:38Beta2Kthe firmware is the .rockbox folder
04:40:13swimmerah ok
04:40:19swimmerso what is H300.hex?
04:40:38Beta2KI'm not sure
04:41:01Beta2Kbootloader-H300.bin is the RB patched bootloader
04:41:35swimmerso I should use this one ?
04:41:57Beta2KHow about you go through the install instructions from
04:42:13Beta2KJust to make sure the bootloader is installed correctly
04:42:34Beta2KI've got to get myself to sleep, my son will be up any time now
04:43:17Beta2KSorry I can't help much more
04:43:29swimmeryou helped already
04:43:33swimmermany thanks for that!
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04:58:57Davide-NYCWhere can I find a good picture of the insides of a sansa c200?
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05:01:49swimmerno way to get it working now :-/
05:02:05swimmerI better go to sleep and try it again tomorrow ...
05:04:01LloreanDavide-NYC: If we have any of them, they should be linked from the c200 port's wiki page
05:04:32Davide-NYCnothing there :(
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07:39:12amiconnMorning LinusN
07:39:26amiconnGot my message? Same problem as yesterday... :(
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07:40:11LinusNthe builds?
07:45:13LinusNreally interesting
07:45:34LinusNagain, the svn update is just stuck, since 00:11 last night
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08:56:32Bagderreally weird
08:57:39Bagderbut when I killed it and did a svn cleanup, the build master at least handled it very nicely
08:57:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:00:09gibbon_i am not really familiar with svn, but i was wondering what happened between revisions 16698 und 16707
09:00:28gibbon_and i am sorry for forgetting to greet...
09:00:37gibbon_a warm "good morning" to everyone :)
09:00:38Bagdersvn diff -r16698:16707
09:00:51LinusNgibbon_: on the contrary, we thank you for not greeting :-)
09:01:31gibbon_... thanks Bagder
09:03:00gibbon_revision systems sometimes do things i don't yet understand... nevermind
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09:09:09markunmorning guys
09:10:22markunBagder, LinusN: since the person doing most of the work only posts at the meizume forum, almost all of the discussion is going on there. Would you guys like to take a look sometimes and maybe comment on it?
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09:10:49markunI hope that the discussions will move to rockbox after we have a minimal port done
09:11:09markun15 pages already
09:13:12Bagdermost annoying links on keywords in that forum
09:14:22markunmaybe I don't see them because I have an account
09:14:47BagderI mean links on words such as Samsung, Toshiba and firmware
09:14:50 Join GodEater [0] (i=c2cbc962@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
09:14:52markunyes, by loging out I also get them
09:15:09Bagdera reason to get an account then...
09:15:52gibbon_to all the sansa c200 owners: do you also experience the OF to fail initializing UMS mode severyl time before the device finally shows up?
09:16:19gibbon_i'm getting strange errors ... the rockbox USB works really fine though
09:17:28gibbon_i was wondering if there is some kind of persistent information about USB modes that is changed by rockbox or so...
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09:18:07gibbon_also writes on the device using the OF often fail with massive filesystem corruption - nothing like that with rockbox again
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09:24:21Bagderwoo, the mrobe100 firmware has some cool strings:
09:24:28BagderRTXCbug - RTXC Objects>
09:24:28BagderD - Dump all (tasks, mailboxes, queues...)
09:24:28BagderT - Tasks
09:24:28BagderM - Mailboxes
09:24:54Bagderthere seems to be some kind of debug mode in there
09:31:04*Bagder has too many scripts scattered all over...
09:31:16BagderI just noticed the missing mrobe100 voice file
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09:35:15Bagderwhen "x5 is turned face down, the music sort of pauses" is certainly an interesting problem...
09:38:09gibbon_the headphone jack of the x5 is iirc a very common source of errors...
09:38:59gibbon_i soldered my sister's maybe 5 times already and read countless reports... has it "plug-in detection" contacts?
09:39:32*Bagder has been neglecting his x5 lately on the favor of his sansa
09:42:46gibbon_i am very happy with my sansa, too
09:44:49LinusNgibbon_: no, it has no headphone detection
09:45:32LinusNhaving the headphone hack on the side was a pretty braindead decision by cowon
09:45:45gibbon_LinusN: then ignore what i just said...
09:46:09LinusNand the subpack is a really silly thing too
09:46:22LinusNapart from that, i really love my x5
09:46:27Bagderyes, but that I can more understand
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10:22:44troublehelixHi, my name is Windsor. I'm beginning to put together an application for GSOC, and am wondering if anyone can recommend a good choice of target platform for a port of RockBox?
10:22:53troublehelixThis would be a challenge, so hopefuly it would be a target that is similar in architecture to existing ones.
10:24:58GodEatera port of rockbox is pretty amibitious, are you certain you could manage it within the time limit?
10:25:39LinusNhave you done anything similar before?
10:26:09markuntroublehelix: and do you have any mp3 players?
10:27:55troublehelixI have an ancient IRiver T30 and a PSP (which was my choice of MP3 player based on audio quality after listening to a few Sansa players, and a couple of IPods).
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10:28:25markuntroublehelix: I would love having rockbox on my girlfriends T30
10:29:09troublehelixI haven't done anything similar, but I have experience with firmware programming in assembly and C on Atmel AVR's, and I was considering doing a hardware / firmware project of my own to play MP3's using a hardware MP3 codec chip and a microcontroller.
10:29:48GodEaterThe PSP would probably be better suited to having "Rockbox as an application" running on it, rather than an actual firmware replacement.
10:29:54markuntroublehelix: the T30 has a chips which is hopefully similar to the one in the Meizu M6 for which we are also making a rockbox port:
10:30:17troublehelixGodEater, short answer: no - I'm not certain at all I could do a port. =) But either way I'm interested.
10:30:42GodEaterinterest of any sort is always welcomed ;)
10:30:52troublehelixI keep tabs on the firmware hacks for the PSP - at the moment it looks like I can't install homebrew on my PSP because I have new firmware.
10:31:09GodEaterah - so bang goes that idea then
10:31:39troublehelixIs the display on the T30 reasonable for rockbox? the screenshots I've seen look like it's geared to units with fancier displays.
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10:32:03GodEatertroublehelix: then you've never seen screenshots from the early archoses running rockbox then ?
10:32:05gevaertstroublehelix: look at older archos screenshots
10:33:02troublehelixOk, lemme go check em out.
10:33:08*gevaerts goes to look himself
10:33:11GodEatersome developers (looking at amiconn here), would probably argue that fancier displays are wasted on Rockbox ;)
10:33:43Bagder... some developers like living with stuff produced before 2005... :-O
10:33:49gevaertsDoesn't that also depend on where the buttons are ;) ?
10:34:50troublehelixI have to say that I expected my IRiver to have been dead by now, I just got envious of friends with newer players.
10:34:57markungevaerts: nice progress on the meizu RE work, but no progress on the shipping of our players
10:36:18gevaertsmarkun: I saw it. I should start looking at this s3c2443 spec to find an easy way to check if the usb controller is the same
10:36:32markungevaerts: I have the specs here
10:37:56gevaertsI have the pdf here as well. The problem is getting in the right mood to read specs after work (work is often reading specs as well) ;)
10:38:05markunah :)
10:46:49Bagder <= "Enhance your music player with Rockbox"
10:48:12Bagder"Rockbox was developed primarily with another purpose in mind: improving sound quality."
10:48:15Bagderit was?
10:48:27LinusNhmmm, i'm not sure it's a good idea to suggest rbutil in the m:robe 100 manual, since rbutil doesn't support it
10:48:45LinusNBagder: that was news to me
10:49:10BagderLinusN: you learn new stuff on the internet you know!
10:49:31LinusNbetter install that "internet" thing on my computer then
10:49:45Bagdernah, wait for 2.0 instead
10:51:43LinusNor even better, wait for 2.0 SP1
10:51:51Bagdernow I like one of them comments to that article
10:52:00Bagder"Without a doubt, this is the worst POS OSS project ever. Ever. This has so many bugs that getting past the basic setup is a major accomplishment. I will never attempt to use this again. Ever."
10:52:04Bagderfriends everywhere!
10:52:28LinusNdefinitely a golden quote candidate
10:54:04petursomebody made work of grabbing
10:54:20Bagderof course... and what does it show?
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10:56:37LinusNBagder: too bad he actually has a small point... :-(
10:57:02Bagdergetting past the basic setup is a major accomplishment?
10:57:37LinusNyes, and the bugs
10:57:48LinusNas it is now, rockbox is quite buggy
10:58:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:58:07LinusNplenty of playback and database issues
10:58:09BagderI don't suffer from many bugs
10:58:19markunneither do I
10:58:19*petur didn't notice riding to work this morning
10:58:29markunbut I haven't updated in maybe 2 weeks
10:58:33LinusNwell, i can only tell by all the bug reports
10:58:54Bagderyes, but which project doesn't have many bugs given this amount of users and platforms supported?
10:59:02LinusNfor example, the sudden repeating of played tracks
10:59:09BagderI'm not convinced we have more than others
10:59:35Bagderso yes, if you mean that he says we have bugs that's a valid point
10:59:36LinusNand all the database issues people are reporting
11:00:02markunLinusN: yes, you would think that by abstraction and 'simplification' of the whole playback system we would get rid of those kind of bugs :(
11:00:07LinusNlike hanging in the database update because of weird/broken tags
11:02:01LinusNi often see explanations in the lines of "you have embedded album art - remote it"
11:02:13LinusNa bad excuse imho
11:02:47*Bagder has this natural filter built-in that ignores most users eh bug reports
11:03:21markuna good thing we have LinusN to point them out again :)
11:03:23LinusNi never use the database myself, but my feeling is that it isn't very stable
11:03:36Bagdermarkun: he ruins my system!
11:03:44LinusNand for some ipod users, that's all they can use
11:04:08LinusNbecause they have their filenames scrambled by itunes
11:04:21markunMaybe we can go through some of the code like the metadata parsers and make sure they don't make any assumtions about the correctness of the metadata
11:04:29markunduring devcon
11:04:45JdGordonpre devcon would be better....
11:05:05JdGordonits sooner...
11:05:09Bagderwell speaking of devcon...
11:05:12LinusNstability is a major issue
11:05:28Bagderanyone for a euro devcon? ;-)
11:05:30markunbut it was nice last year working together on fixing things
11:05:41markunBagder: me!
11:05:48*JdGordon !
11:06:08*markun goes to work and will be back in a few minutes
11:06:09*JdGordon watches everyone retract their "me's
11:09:08gevaertsSpeaking of bugs, is there a linux cli tool araound that can easily remove embedded album art ?
11:09:53JdGordonwhy isnt our parser ignoring tags it doesnt kow about?
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11:12:29*gevaerts doesn't know, but expects there is a well thought out reason for that ;)
11:18:38Slasherimetadata parsers are the main issue for the db because many parsers dont have much (if at all) sanity checking of the files
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11:19:11Bagderone of these days, we should add some kind of testing framework
11:19:17Bagderone of these years perhaps
11:19:42dionoeathat shounds kind of like "one of these days, a release would be nice" :)
11:19:54Bagderyes, it's quite similar hehe
11:20:12Bagderand piece on earth!
11:20:16Bagderpeace even
11:20:21dionoeahehe :)
11:20:45dionoeaOn a completely different subject, your Rockbox link on the Google Summer of Code page is still wrong.
11:21:38Bagderfixed now
11:21:47Bagderbut they probably don't update immediately
11:22:04Bagderah no
11:22:04dionoeaAh ok.
11:22:08Bagdercrappy crappy
11:22:25Bagdersilly web app wants 300 more details filled in that I didnt' want to do
11:22:26*gevaerts heard some romors about their webapp not being perfect
11:23:08BagderI have to fill in an address for "the final payment" in order to change the url...
11:23:19Bagderit seems a _bit_ early to require that info
11:23:22dionoeaThat makes snese :)
11:24:26*Bagder protests by filling in dashes
11:24:31dionoeaLooks like it's fixed now
11:25:09*gevaerts noticed they want all sorts of personal data like t-shirt size if you want to be a mentor ;)
11:25:22GodEaterThat's the "code for cotton" payment ;)
11:25:49gevaertsDoes anyone have a good us<->euro size convertor for those ?
11:26:00*GodEater assumes the only reason amiconn protests about signing up as a mentor is he doesn't want google knowing his T-shirt size :o
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11:26:48Bagderthats' google's secret plan
11:26:55Bagderget the tshirt sizes of everyone!
11:27:04markundata mining
11:27:20Bagderonce you have their size, you can start collecting the money...
11:27:40markunpersonalized t-shirt adds
11:27:45GodEaterI fully expect may adverts for weight-watchers to start filling my email inbox now.
11:28:33LinusN1) invent bogus open source funding program, 2) collect t-shirt sizes, 3) ..., 4) profit!
11:28:56GodEaterlets have a competition
11:29:05GodEatersee who can come up with the least feasible 3)
11:29:38GodEaterrules: you may divide 3) up into sub stages
11:29:44GodEaterready? go.
11:29:59*Bagder leaves for lunch
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11:37:30markunBagder: nice post about the Meizu in your blog. Mine will have 8GB flash, so it doesn't end at 4GB.
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11:45:21*gevaerts just read the LWN FAQ on subscriber links, and concludes he is allowed to put them here...
11:46:01gevaertsPeople who haven't seen it yet : lwn talked a bit about rockbox last week :
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11:55:07markungevaerts: wow: "But I'm now selling it ... Mainly, because I'm not totally satisfied with the feature set of Rockbox."
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11:56:56gevaertsmarkun: if he wants the feature set of an EEE or an N800, I guess rockbox is not for him
11:57:28*gevaerts considers selling his laptop. It doesn't come with twelve hotswappable disk slots, so it must be bad
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11:58:23markunyes, hard to please such people. No idea why he doesn't 'just' add support to rockbox for multiple genre tags.
11:59:29gevaertsI do like the idea of replacing the battery with a coal-powered generator. I might do that myself some time ;)
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12:09:35markunI have a small steam engine somewhere in my room which I could use to generate electrical power :)
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12:12:17gevaertsSo will you use flac in summer and high-bitrate mp3 in winter ?
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12:13:27*gevaerts looks at the CodecPerformanceComparison page and concludes that APE is the best codec for cold winter evenings
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12:25:06roolkuLinusN: m:robe 100 is supported by (svn) rbutil, but I think the binaries on the server may not be upto date
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12:28:51LinusNroolku: then we should update the server binaries, or remove the rbutil reference in the manual
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12:31:08roolkuLinusN: yes, but that requires that a linux/mac person compiles them. I can supply a windows binary
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12:36:41*gibbon_ puts his hand up as a linux person with a current svn tree handy
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12:37:21gibbon_if theres some immediate action i should take, report in
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12:59:35bttbHi all
13:01:05bttbCan rockbox play videos or would I have to boot the original ipod firmware for that?
13:01:08 Quit perrikwp (Client Quit)
13:01:37bttbThis would be on an iPod 5G
13:01:38gibbon_hi bttb, there is an mpegplayer plugin
13:01:59gibbon_i never actually tried to use it ... ymmv.
13:02:08gibbon_its worth a try
13:03:48bttbI'll just boot the original firmware. I'm more interested in rockbox's replagain and vorbis (etc.) features
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13:05:40gibbon_yes, the featureset for music is in my optinion very satisfactory :)
13:06:02bttbIndeed :)
13:06:35bttbAll my files are vorbis anyway. Don't feel like recoding my flacs to mp3/aac.
13:07:12gibbon_i feel like playing flac natively... so i use rockbox...
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13:08:00bttbI can't abx my vorbis files from the flacs so I can save the space :)
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13:22:45Flicks1hey there guys
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13:23:27Flicks1guys do you have an issue with ape files? they are skipping because ipod 5.5 gen processor is slow right?
13:23:50LinusNthat is correct
13:24:08LinusNape is a very demanding format
13:24:20Flicks1lol... i got plenty of classical music in ape format
13:24:33Flicks1i hate it lol.. i prefer flac to ease of use
13:24:36Bagderluckily it is lossless so you can transcode into a nicer format
13:24:40Bagderlike flac
13:24:54Flicks1yep.. but that will take time to transcope alot of gigs
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13:25:23Flicks1guys do you know capacity of a 5.5gen ipod?
13:25:29LinusNwell, since your ipod can't play it, and you hate it, i see no other oprion :-)
13:25:51LinusNFlicks1: "capacity"?
13:26:02Bagderand hey, most computers have lots of time when the owners are asleep
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13:26:45Flicks1battery capacity in mwa
13:28:01BuschelFlicks1: 400mAh (30GB) or 580mAh (80GB)
13:28:13Flicks1ooh thanks alot for that
13:29:21Flicks1to bad there is no 580 option.. just 600
13:30:16Buscheloops, 600mAh is correct
13:30:27Flicks1ohh lol :)
13:30:32*Buschel was dreaming of an battery upgrade for his 30GB 5.5G
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13:33:22BuschelFlicks1: the option in the settings ha no influence on the real runtime. it's only used for the estimation of the remaining runtime
13:33:52Flicks1yes i am awared of thats.. thanks
13:34:06Flicks1hey is there any tweaks that every ipod 5.5g user must do?
13:34:27Flicks1i dont like id3 i use file structure , so dir cache is usefull for me?
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13:36:10*Bagder does a discrete announcement
13:37:56Bagderin the svn repo
13:39:25Flicks1guys is there a way when i select to play it.. because when you select a file you still have to press play button
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13:40:09markunFlicks1: did you pause audio before selecting the file?
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13:41:15Flicks1yep.. like previous song that i was listening
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13:42:36Flicks1also is load to Ram affects normal file structure or just apple database
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13:43:02Bagderrockbox has only a rockbox database
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13:48:43*Buschel swears to not commiting crap ;-)
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13:55:16*gevaerts can't remember if he promised anything like that ;)
13:56:03Bagderif you didn't, who's signature in blood is it I have?
13:56:51gevaertsNo idea. Can you post a picture somewhere ?
13:57:23Bagderonce you've committed crap I'll be forced to! ;-)
13:58:24*gevaerts searches through the svn log to find incriminating material to use against Bagder
13:58:44*Bagder ducks and runs
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14:04:57***Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( )'
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14:07:10Buschelhmm, first try to commit a change fails. "svn: Log message file is a versioned file; use '−−force-log' to override". any idea?
14:08:11gevaertsBuschel: what's your svn command ?
14:08:53Buschel"svn commit -m "Correct DEV_TIMING for CPUFREQ_DEFAULT. Was changed by fault in former power management commit." -F firmware/target/arm/system-pp502x.c"
14:09:22linuxstb_What is the -F for?
14:09:38dionoeayou should remove the F
14:09:39Buschel= −−file
14:09:46dionoeait's to read the commit message from a file
14:09:59dionoeaso it's trying to read the commit message in your .c file
14:09:59linuxstb_-F is for reading the log message (what you typed with -m) from a file...
14:10:11Buschelcool, worked! :)
14:10:21dionoeaand you can also just svn ci <the file> and you text editor will pop up asking for a commit message
14:10:25pondlifeNow watch that build table ;)
14:10:31dionoeamakes it a bit easier if you have multiline messages.
14:11:07linuxstb_Buschel: BTW, I like to do "svn diff file1 file2 etc" before a commit, as a preview of what is going to go in. It's saved me from a few nasty mistakes...
14:11:28*petur wonders if the frontpage script that does the name translation has been adapted
14:11:43pondlifeWasn't that why Bagder did that commit first?
14:11:56Bagderpetur: it uses the svn COMMITTERS file nowadays
14:12:02peturah great
14:12:10Buschellinuxstb: I use a clean trunk and made a diff over the full repository before the commit.
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14:14:03Bagder"svn st -q" is also nice for an overview of the repo situation
14:14:47pondlifeMy tip is always to do a test build for the player sim, even if the code you changed is nowhere near it...
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14:14:50dionoeawhat does the -q hide?
14:15:03Bagderthe locally added files that aren't versioned
14:15:15dionoeaah, nice.
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14:16:12Buschelbtw, when committing several files -> is ok to simply use <svn commit -m "" path>?
14:16:14Bagderah the premiere commit!
14:16:37pondlifeBuschel: Commit them in a single command.
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14:16:54dionoeaBagder: svn diff path and check that everything's there (like linuxstb_ suggested)
14:16:56*Buschel is nervous about the upcoming build table results
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14:18:10Buschel2mins to go
14:18:11pondlifeBuschel: Congrats!
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14:18:27pondlifeBuschel: Your PC clock is a bit out?
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14:19:28*pondlife likes what MarcGuay is doing to the wiki..
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14:19:55Buschelpondlife: yes, clock was a bit late
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14:23:27preglowBuschel: welcome :)
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14:24:34Buschelpreglow: thanks :o) anything speaking against commiting FS #8750?
14:27:11linuxstb_Buschel: How are you benchmarking your DSP improvements?
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14:28:01preglowBuschel: nothing i can think of, no
14:29:30*linuxstb_ is wondering which ARM cpus it's been tested on
14:31:23Buschellinuxstb: it was tested on a PP5021-C. benchmarking via calling the routines 30x and measuring the boost ratio while playback.
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14:33:27linuxstb_preglow: Do you have any idea how speex compares to all the other voice codecs? I've just noticed a G729.A fixed-point decoder patch submitted to ffmpeg and am wondering if it's worth supporting anything other than speex
14:34:00linuxstb_Buschel: Wouldn't a test plugin (the dsp functions are exposed via the plugin API) be more reliable?
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14:34:39preglowlinuxstb_: i'd say any codec with files using it floating around is worth supporting
14:36:45PaulJamlinuxstb_: btw, thanks for the update of the viewports-wps patch.
14:37:40preglowspeex compares quite well with other voice codecs, but is inferior to some, thanks to patented tech
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14:41:00Buschellinuxstb: of course this would give more precise results. but i think to get a rough impression of the speed up my tests should be ok
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14:42:46BidMeadHi. Be grateful if someone could authorise me to edit the Wiki. There's some optimistic stuff about RB on 1G that needs qualifying.
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14:45:15Beta2KDon't think anyone is around to do that right now BidMead
14:45:25Beta2KTho wait and I'm sure someone will appear
14:45:32linuxstb_BidMead: What's your wiki name?
14:45:45*petur can guess
14:46:19gevaertsBeta2K: anyone with wiki write permissions can do it
14:46:20GodEaterBeta2K: you don't have wiki edit rights either ?
14:46:35Beta2KYes I do
14:46:43GodEaterthen you can do it
14:46:51Beta2KOh, I assumed you needed to be a wiki admin
14:47:06BidMeadMy Wiki name is BidMead, oddly enough. :-)
14:47:21peturBidMead: your wiki name is wrong - it has to be FirstLast
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14:47:30Beta2K(No offence) That's you real name? :)
14:47:51*petur points to the forums
14:48:11BidMeadIt's my real name. And it's not "wrong", I think. I registered as Bid Mead. :-)
14:48:16linuxstb_preglow: So it wouldn't be a waste of time to port other voice codecs?
14:48:23GodEaterideally we wanted the wiki to be open for editing by anyone. Unfortunately it got spammed to death - so we had to turn the instant edit rights off. But there's no point restricting the ability to give others edit rights to just the admins
14:48:45 Quit andrew_ (Nick collision from services.)
14:48:48linuxstb_BidMead: The registration page says your wiki name has to be FirstnameLastname...
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14:49:10linuxstb_(because we want real full names attached to all content)
14:49:22BidMead@linuxstb. And so it is. Bid Mead gives BidMead
14:49:25Beta2Klinuxstb, he said that is his name :)
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14:49:32Beta2KWhere are you from BidMead ?
14:49:40Beta2KJust cuz I'm curious now :)
14:50:10BidMeadFrom? Geographically? Culturally? Workwise?
14:50:27Beta2KI guess culturally
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14:50:57BidMeadIT journalist and one time TV writer and script editor.
14:51:47linuxstb_So you're saying "Chris Bidmead" isn't your real name?
14:51:49BidMeadThat's workwise and culturally. :-)
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14:52:57BidMeadI don't think I said Chris Bidmead isn't my real name. It is. But I register wherever I can as bidmead. that's what I'm generally known as.
14:53:11peturBidMead: you should have a chat with amiconn here for a testbuild to figure out why your 1-gen doesn't behave
14:53:26linuxstb_petur: We know why now.
14:53:39BidMeadI think we know now why it doesn't behave, thanks to good work in the forum.
14:53:47markunBidMead: I usually also don't register as MarcoenHirschberg, only in the rockbox wiki
14:54:06*petur reads up
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14:54:26GodEaterpetur: the ipod that bidmead has doesn't identify itself properly
14:54:44BidMeadI think BidMead is snappier than ChristopherHamiltonBidmead. Don't you?
14:54:59linuxstb_BidMead: Sure, but it's not what the wiki registration page asked for...
14:55:06Buscheljust to make sure I understood it correctly: "commit -m "" a.c b.c c.S" will commit the three files a.c, b.c and c.S?
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14:56:47BidMead@linuxstb Do you always give Web quiz pages everything they ask for? I'm clearly not here in disguise.
14:57:19Buschelok, done
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14:58:44GodEaterBidMead: Look, if you think it's an unreasonable request, don't register with your name as asked for. But then don't complain when you don't get write access. We make a simple request, either abide by it, or don't. We've had enough arguments about it over the years, and the policy is not about to change.
14:59:47BidMeadI'm not complaining at all. And will back off from offering help with the docs if it doesn't suit the project. I'm flexible.
15:00:58GodEaterWe're happy to accept documentation changes from someone we know is ChrisBidmead, but not someone who appears to have a first name of "Bid" and a second name of "Mead" who doesn't actually legally exist.
15:01:23Beta2KWe're not trying to be dificult, it's just the way our forfathers set out the policy... :)
15:01:24BidMeadThe real prob is the iPod not identifying itself properly. Think you'll agree that BidMead versus ChrisBidmead is a trivial issue compared with this... :-)
15:01:49gevaertsBidMead: exactly...
15:02:17BidMeadIn deference to the forefathers I could always register as DonaldDuck...
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15:03:18markunBidMead: we have people in the wiki with fake names anyway. No way to really verify it.
15:03:38GodEaterwe're not asking for a birth certificate
15:03:56BidMead@marcun Of course you do. That's inevitable. Cut me some slack here, guys.
15:06:03markunmaybe we can give you write access and ask Bagder or LinusN to correct your account name later :)
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15:06:19LinusNi fail to see what the big deal is
15:06:41LinusNi.e why ChrisBidmead isn't acceptable
15:07:13BidMeadWell, Bidmead's not wrong. It's what I'm generally known as in the biz.
15:07:45 Quit cool_walking_ (Remote closed the connection)
15:07:56LinusNit is wrong in our wiki
15:08:19LinusNwe both have the exact same point: "what's the big deal?"
15:10:39BidMeadWell, here's a philosophical point, if we have time for such a thing. The essence of a Wiki is freedom. Wikis work best with minimal constraints. Given that I could be DonaldDuck, and several in the Wiki already undoubtably have such names, why try to enforce this arbitrary restriction?
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15:12:02LinusNbecause we believe in openness and real people with real names
15:12:18LinusNand you obviously have time to argue
15:12:25 Quit Buschel ()
15:12:50LinusNand you also seem to believe that your shortname is more important than our policy
15:13:02BidMeadYou have my real name. And actually I don't have time to argue. I could have gone in and fixed the docs by now and be on my way. But I guess I'll just have to be on my way...
15:13:49 Quit BidMead ("CGI:IRC")
15:14:09LinusNwell, well, what a loss
15:14:17*linuxstb_ shrugs
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15:14:40peturloss of time, that is...
15:15:29markunbut cool that he wrote dr. who episodes :)
15:15:36LinusNi heard he is some kind of hotshot in the media
15:15:56gibbon_dr who is my favorite
15:16:01*gevaerts finds the fact that the wiki uses http authentication instead of cookies much more annoying than _naming_conventions_
15:16:12LinusNgevaerts: that is about to change
15:16:27linuxstb_gevaerts: Why is that annoying?
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15:17:43LinusNi think the real name wikiname policy isn't a big deal, but on the other hand, how hard is it to follow that simple policy?
15:17:51Beta2KBecause cookies are tastier
15:17:56LinusNapparently hard for some
15:17:59gevaertslinuxstb_: I don't like my webbrowser remembering passwords in general, but I do like autologin for low-security-risk sites (like lwn subscriptions or the wiki)
15:18:33*Beta2K isn't known as JasonStahls anywhere else...
15:18:37linuxstb_LinusN: Also, I don't think the "We will delete your registration without notice if you break this rule" is unclear that we enforce that request...
15:18:44Beta2KBut that's the policy
15:18:58linuxstb_Beta2K: You're saying that's not your real name?
15:19:04Beta2KNo it is
15:19:07Beta2KI just don't give it out
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15:19:14Beta2KNormally it's HughJass
15:19:42Horschtwow, some people are mad for puns
15:20:08*gevaerts wouldn't want to be know as that
15:21:27Beta2KI don't think Adobe care
15:25:23linuxstb_PaulJam: Have you tried my latest viewports patch?
15:26:08dionoeaIs the minimum volume on ipod 5G an arbitrary limit chosen by rockbox? or is that the minimum which the hardware can output?
15:26:51linuxstb_The latter
15:27:28dionoeaAh ... too bad :/
15:27:52gevaertsdionoea: you can add a resistor somewhere I guess
15:28:03linuxstb_There was talk a long time ago of extending it with a software volume control, but no-one ever did.
15:28:21dionoeagevaerts: hehe, that's not really an option
15:28:28linuxstb_I guess you could use the replaygain (or software EQ) pre-amp
15:28:48dionoeaI just bough these speakers with which even the minimum volume can be too high.
15:29:20dionoeaspeaker isn't the right term... earphones
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15:31:22Beta2KThree resistors could me easily wired as a pad
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15:33:00dionoeaI'll have a go at software volume control
15:33:05dionoeaShouldn't be too hard.
15:33:52Beta2KEnable your EQ and set the gains back 5-10dB on all bands?
15:35:34dionoeaThat sounds a bit overkill just to lower the volume :) But it'd work.
15:36:18Beta2KDO you use the EQ currently?
15:37:05Beta2KSet the Q really low then as well to make the roll off really long
15:37:11Beta2Kon each band that is
15:37:35Beta2KThen going back to a louder output is as simple as turning the EQ off
15:39:33dionoeaThe eq thing works but I'll still try doing something simpler just to lower the volume. There's no need to do decomposition in different frequency bands just to lower the volume.
15:40:52dionoeaWhere would the right place to insert the software volume control be? apps/something or firmware/pcm.c ?
15:43:16markundionoea: we already have software volume control used for replaygain and the EQ
15:44:27dionoeaAh nice. Which source file is that implemented in? eq.c?
15:44:46markunI'm searching for it
15:46:03markundionoea: set_gain in dsp.c
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15:47:01dionoeaok, thanks.
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15:50:46PaulJamlinuxstb_: yes, it fixes the issue.
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15:53:57linuxstb_PaulJam: OK, thanks.
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16:01:35dionoeadoes the *10 used in firmware/sound.c when setting the volume mean that we could theoretically set the volume in steps 10 times as small as what's currently available? (I can't test right now ... I will when I get back home)
16:01:46dionoeaon wolfson audio chips
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16:04:46quaalwhy does my ipod only turn on 1/3 times
16:04:47markunI think it was added because the bass is sometimes set in steps of 1.5dB
16:04:56quaalthe rest of the time i have to hold top and center buttons to restart it
16:04:58linuxstb_quaal: Ask Apple...
16:05:27quaallinuxstb_, never happened until i put rockbox on it
16:05:41linuxstb_People have reported the same issue when Rockbox hasn't been installed on ipods, it's just that Apple's firmware doesn't shut the device down normally (it just enters a sleep mode)
16:05:57linuxstb_Whereas Rockbox does a proper power-off.
16:06:04dionoeaAh nevermind, the driver divides by 10 afterwards
16:06:34quaalso there is no known fix
16:06:38LambdaCalculus37quaal: Which iPod?
16:06:45quaalipod video 30g
16:07:20LambdaCalculus37I've never had that issue before on mine.
16:08:25GodEaterI've had it once on mine
16:08:41GodEaterand once I've seen the "Very Low Battery" thing when it really wasn't
16:09:07LambdaCalculus37GodEater: Quirks in the Apple firmware, perchance?
16:09:30gibbon_GodEater: did you see this with the ac-adapter attached on a very non critical battery state?
16:09:42gibbon_i did several times with my color
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16:42:28Kreativethinkrdoes any 1 now rock sansa will get usb to work i been waiting like2 years for this to work ? ? ? ? does any one know how to use the sansa drive to work on rockbox???
16:43:23LambdaCalculus37Kreativethinkr: Patience. The USB isn't complete yet.
16:43:29LambdaCalculus37^ *stack
16:43:41LambdaCalculus37In the meantime, just use the Sansa firmware for file transfers.
16:43:56Kreativethinkrdo u knw when it will be ?
16:43:59Kreativethinkrrdy ?
16:44:16LambdaCalculus37Kreativethinkr: No.
16:45:18Kreativethinkrit just that my ps3 stop see ing my sansa fw and i wwant 2 use the rockbox
16:45:49LambdaCalculus37Kreativethinkr: Please read the IRC guidelines:
16:46:00LambdaCalculus37Stop shorthanding and use *proper* English.
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16:58:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:17:57*LambdaCalculus37 inspects his modified disktidy.c further
17:20:11LambdaCalculus37Grrr... Kate borked all the indents.
17:20:17Beta2Krm -rf *
17:20:36linuxstb_LambdaCalculus37: Kate is well known for trashing files...
17:21:13LambdaCalculus37linuxstb_: I think that's why my modified disktidy.c was returning errors.
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17:27:16LambdaCalculus37linuxstb_: How does this look?
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17:31:16amiconnlinuxstb: Btw, this hw_rew issue is also the reason for the lcd contrast being off on the affected 1st Gens. The LCD driver set 2 controller parameters based on this
17:31:32amiconnlcd-gray.c line 122ff
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17:33:42linuxstb_LambdaCalculus37: I'm not sure what you want me to look at, but you have lots of TAB and ^M characters
17:34:30linuxstb_amiconn: Are you intending to implement the sysinfo struct? I'll probably have time to do it this evening or over the next few days if you're not working on it.
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17:34:48amiconnRight now I am thinking about what would be the best way
17:35:35amiconnMy current idea is to target-treeify hwcompat.[ch], and put the struct declaration into hwcompat-target.h for ipods
17:35:35linuxstb_Am I right in thinking that the "core IRAM" is the first half?
17:35:54nate2quick question: I just rebuild an Ipod color with itunes, reinstalled roxbox using the automated installer and click on "database" and then select to initilize database, and the database still finds 614 songs and sits at "Building database..." is this normal?
17:36:11linuxstb_So as long as the bootloader doesn't overwrite it (we can change, and Rockbox copies it before a codec/plugin is loaded, it should be fine?
17:36:36amiconnRockbox should also just stay away from the last 256 bytes of iram
17:37:29linuxstb_Yes, that wouldn't be a great loss - and would make rolo simpler (i.e. nothing to do).
17:37:30amiconnThen struct sysinfo sysinfo would just point to the respective address, and IPOD_HW_REVISION becomes as simple as:
17:38:34amiconnAh, no, just a pointer to a struct element won't work
17:38:49amiconnThere are 2 possible locations, so we need a little function
17:39:01linuxstb_nate2: No, but unfortunately not uncommon. I'm not sure how to debug it though... (maybe others reading this do)
17:39:25linuxstb_What about making it a macro that returned the value?
17:39:36nate2linuxstb_: ty for your reply
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17:40:02nate2linuxstb_: i may try a chkdsk and see what happens, not sure if i can do that on a USB device
17:40:50linuxstb_nate2: Yes, that should work fine. Either disk corruption, or corrupt/unexpected tags in your audio files seem to be the main causes I think.
17:41:17nate2linuxstb_: there are no audio files... i just nuked it and rebuilt it
17:41:53amiconnlinuxstb: Hmm, in fact I'm not sure where in memory the sysinfo structure resides...
17:42:22amiconn0x40017f1c resp. 0x4001ff1c is just a pointer to the actual struct...
17:43:19LambdaCalculus37linuxstb_: Guess I still have a lot of cleaning up to do, then. What I posted to pastebin was the modification for disktidy.c to look for and remove .dolphinview files.
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17:43:24pondlifeSilly idea perhaps, but do all non-1G iPods succeed when we try to identify them? i.e. is 0xffffffff a safe indicator of a 1G
17:44:41amiconnWe should at least check a few more addresses whether we're actually reading the sysinfo
17:44:58amiconnThe respecitve rom area seems to have a length indicator
17:45:37amiconnMy dump has 0x90 at address 0x2004, the problematics one has 0x54
17:46:46linuxstb_I'll do some tests on my ipods tonight, to see what's going on (I don't have them with me now).
17:47:25amiconnWe could check whether the HwId is ascii, and equal to 820-1350-A
17:47:37amiconnThis is almost certainly an 0x00010000 ipod
17:47:54nate2ok, adding some tracks seemed to fix it, ty
17:48:29*amiconn googled for 820-1350-A
17:48:45linuxstb_amiconn: It would be nice to deal with the sysinfo struct anyway though...
17:49:22Lloreanpondlife: it looks like other iPods have reported 0xffffffff in the past.
17:49:35amiconnHmm. I don't see a real need for that, if we can solve the problem reliably in a different way
17:49:43pondlifeLlorean: that's my answer then :)
17:49:57nate2jeez, how do i exit the picture viewer? lol
17:50:03Lloreanpondlife: Shoot, didn't notice search results were unlikable. Anyway, if you type 0xffffffff in there you get a bunch of results.
17:50:04amiconnIf the sturct would reside in a fixed place, it would be easy enough, but it doesn't seem to
17:50:07LloreanMostly 5.5G I think
17:50:19nate2ok thanks again
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17:50:25pondlifeLlorean: Yep, that's what I did
17:50:56amiconnLlorean: Both G5 and G5.5 used to show 0xffffffff because those rom have the info at a different address
17:51:06amiconnThat was fixed quite some time ago
17:51:22Lloreanamiconn: Well, people still got it with bootloader 2.0, what's the current version?
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17:52:28amiconnI fixed it in SVN on 28 Oct 2007
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17:56:03*amiconn wants to get rid of the TARGET_TREE macro
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17:56:56amiconnThe only targets not having it set are the archoses. I'll check whether it can be set with little or no work, and if that's possible, remove it
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17:58:25linuxstb_amiconn: I meant that we need (I assume) to take care of it if RoLo is going to stand any chance of loading the OF.
17:58:51Lloreanamiconn: Well we haven't provided an updated binary containing your change, then.
17:59:00amiconnLlorean: Hmm, bad
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17:59:26LloreanThe newest bootloader binary seems to be 18 Sep, 07
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18:00:18DefineByteAnyone else think "Please reboot to enable" should be changed to something less confusing (apparently)?
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18:07:32linuxstb_DefineByte: I assume someone has complained?
18:07:48LambdaCalculus37DefinteByte: Nothing confusing about being asked to reboot.
18:07:49DefineBytepeople are hard-resetting apparently
18:08:42DefineByteso "please shutdown and reboot to enable" may be better.
18:09:16LambdaCalculus37Some changes to disktidy.c to remove Dolphin files; note that this is based on an older disktidy.c. revision, but changes will be brought over to the latest revision:
18:09:42linuxstb_LambdaCalculus37: A "diff" is traditional...
18:10:05LambdaCalculus37linuxstb_: I haven't got my laptop today; thus no proper dev environment.
18:10:07 Quit GodEater (" ajax IRC Client")
18:10:16LambdaCalculus37I'm working with stone knives and bearskins here.
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18:10:49amiconnDefineByte: Why would someone do this? It's beyond me...
18:11:02LambdaCalculus37Plus, like I mentioned, this is on an older disktidy revision, so I need to bring the changes over to the latest revision.
18:11:03amiconnIt says 'reboot', not 'reset'
18:11:08DefineByteI guess because they don't know it's a hard reset?
18:11:17pondlifeReboot is clear enough IMHO.
18:11:53linuxstb_I think it's simply that people might not realise there is any difference between reboot and reset.
18:12:33DefineBytelower down in that thread
18:12:52*amiconn agrees with pondlife
18:13:15DefineByteyeah, coz he agrees with you. x)
18:13:16*linuxstb_ thinks we need to take account of the level of expertise of our users (as much as is reasonable...)
18:13:34DefineByteIt can't hurt to be more explicit.
18:13:39amiconnMessages should be kept short
18:13:40LloreanWhy not "Shutdown" instead of "Reboot"
18:13:51LloreanWe can take it as "obvious" that you need to then boot back up
18:13:59*linuxstb_ imagines people shutting down and waiting.... ;)
18:14:14Lloreanlinuxstb_: I think that's less likely than people Menu+Selecting though. :-P
18:14:49pondlifeWhy not tell them they need to reboot and (on targets where it's possible) offer that as an option?
18:14:56pondlifei.e. SELECT to reboot
18:15:40DefineBytewell, they may not want to reboot straight away and they they 'reboot' (hard reset) later
18:15:45linuxstb_Or make Rockbox not need the reboot at all...
18:15:56DefineBytewould be best of cours
18:16:06amiconnHmm. Recorders and Player are fine with target tree, but the Ondios are giving trouble (hotswap related)
18:16:08Lloreanlinuxstb_: Honestly, I wasn't aware that it still did. Last time I initialized a database, I swear it didn't end up requiring a reboot.
18:16:32pondlifeLlorean: It's dircache, not databae
18:16:48amiconnLlorean: You need to reboot when initing database if you have dircache disabled
18:16:58*pondlife learns something
18:17:06amiconnAnd there are a few other settings which require a reboot to become active
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18:17:51LloreanWell, in as long as a reboot is needed, I think "Shutdown" is less confusing on iPods at least.
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18:18:36linuxstb_How does Windows phrase it when it needs a reboot?
18:18:55pondlifeI think the term is "Restart"
18:19:16*pondlife tries to think of a way to trigger that
18:19:27amiconnTrigger what?
18:19:38linuxstb_pondlife: Yes, I was thinking of "restart"
18:19:47pondlifeWindows wanting a restart... ah, I'll move my swapfile..
18:19:48linuxstb_amiconn: Windows needing a reboot
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18:20:22DefineByteI can still see Ipod owners resetting if told to restart.
18:20:49DefineByteThey don't know the setting won't be saved.
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18:21:29pondlifeWindows says "The changes you have made require you to restart your computer before they can take effect." (c) BillG
18:21:57pondlifeThen "Do you want to restart your computer now?"
18:22:07DefineByteand it has a 'Restart' option in the start menu
18:22:23pondlifeBut Rockbox != Windows...
18:22:34DefineByteyour point?
18:22:35linuxstb_That message wouldn't fit on a lot of screens...
18:22:41amiconnA bit of rtfm is always necessary
18:22:51linuxstb_But does the fm describe it?
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18:23:42kslaterwas just about to ask him a question
18:24:08linuxstb_kslater: Just ask - maybe others can answer (or gevaerts will read it in the logs)
18:24:12pondlifekslater: Some devs are psychic like that.
18:24:47amiconnHmm. Cleaning up hotswap for target-treeifying Ondios requires some MMC-SD unification work
18:24:53DefineByteI can't find an explanation in te manual (quick glance).
18:25:05kslateryesterday, we found that when I loaded the latest e200 build on my e260, it fired up the USB stuff. (Windows saw it as a disk drive, etc.)
18:25:36kslatermy e260 is bit brain damaged though, so I wondered if it's possible to turn it off somehow?
18:25:44DefineByte"you can return to Rockbox by pressing and holding Menu and Select simultaneously until the player reboots."
18:25:53kslaterthe usb stuff, not the e260 itself
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18:25:58DefineByteIt calls menu+select rebooting. :)
18:26:05mcuelenaerecan someone explain me why "mov r8, #0xff00\n orr r8, r8, #0xff" shouldn't be "mov r8, #0xffff" ?
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18:26:43amiconnmcuelenaere: Because that's impossible in arm asm
18:26:56mcuelenaereand why so?
18:26:58linuxstb_mcuelenaere: Constants only have a limited precision.
18:27:08amiconnConstants must not spread across more than 8 bits, left-shifted by an even bit count
18:27:09mcuelenaereah and 0xffff is beyond that limit?
18:27:19amiconnCheck the arm reference manual
18:27:42amiconns/left shifted/rotated/
18:28:22linuxstb_mcuelenaere: Every ARM instruction is encoded in 32 bits...
18:28:29mcuelenaereyes I know
18:28:36mcuelenaereexcept the thumb ones, right?
18:28:39bluebrotherDefineByte: maybe that should be called reset
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18:28:54linuxstb_mcuelenaere: Yes
18:28:59DefineBytewell, definitely.
18:29:16linuxstb_bluebrother: Or maybe even "hard reset"
18:29:29pondlifereboot/restart/reset... what's the difference?
18:29:52DefineBytethere's a big difference
18:30:04pondlifeSeriously... I have no Apple hardware.
18:30:26pondlifeAnyone fancy defining them, in a Rockbox context...?
18:30:28linuxstb_pondlife: Holding MENU+SELECT is the hard reset - the same as pressing the iriver's little reset button with a staple
18:30:43pondlifeOK, so that's a reset/reboot/restart..
18:31:12DefineByteSounds like you're in favour of changing the message.
18:31:14linuxstb_And we're using "reboot" to mean a clean shutdown in Rockbox, followed by turning the device back on.
18:31:27pondlifeAh, that means "shutdown"
18:31:32pondlifeSo the message is wrong
18:31:52DefineByteYes. It's really askin for a shutdown.
18:31:56amiconnThe message is correct
18:32:02linuxstb_I wouldn't call it wrong, but I can see how it can be misinterpreted
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18:32:20pondlifeIf you want the user to do a shutdown, why not prompt them to do so?
18:32:23amiconn'Reboot' means to restart in a clean way, i.e. shutdown + power back on
18:32:40amiconn'Reset' is the hard way, giving rockbox no chance to save anything
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18:32:59pondlifeTrue.. and 'Restart' is not clear enough to be useful.
18:33:00linuxstb_pondlife: Yes, that was Llorean's suggestion, but it sounds odd to tell people to turn something off for it to work...
18:33:33DefineByteWas my suggestion so bad? >.>
18:33:33pondlifeSo "Reboot" would be ok, but the manual should agree.. and "Restart" should not be used.
18:33:50*amiconn thinks that we have more important problems that this though...
18:34:00*pondlife agrees
18:34:04DefineByteright, but fixing it would take 5 seconds
18:34:18 Quit silvio_ (Remote closed the connection)
18:34:36*linuxstb_ goes to solve his immediate problem - getting home
18:34:39pondlifeDefineByte: We just agreed that the message is correct.
18:34:39 Quit linuxstb_ ("Client Exiting")
18:34:47pondlifeThe manual might need work
18:35:19bluebrotherhard reset sounds to be a good way calling it
18:35:28bluebrotherIMO :)
18:36:16nls_webBagder: I think Buschel should be promoted to dev in the tracker so he can close his own tasks now :)
18:36:58pondlifehehe, perhaps the tracker can look in COMMITTERS too
18:37:04DefineByteWill you change it bluebrother or do you want a patch?
18:37:29pondlifeDefineByte: The manual?
18:37:48pondlifeJust making sure ;)
18:38:02bluebrotherDefineByte: tell me the file it's in or create a patch. Don't want to search for the exact position ;-)
18:38:50pondlifeProbably need to search the entire manual for the words reboot, reset, restart and shutdown, then check for consistency.
18:39:11DefineByteAll good fun. :D
18:39:41pondlifeOn a related note, it would be nice if I could reboot when mains is applied (at least on targets that can RoLo).
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18:45:49DefineByteDoes menu+select hard reset on all targets?
18:46:00DefineBytei.e. settings won't be saved
18:46:13domonokyDefineByte: nope har-reset is a hardware feature..
18:46:15pondlifeNo, only iPods
18:46:41domonokyon irivers there is a reset hole ( works the same as long menu+select)
18:46:42bluebrotheronly on the later Ipods. IIRC the IpodFAQ page holds a link to an Apple site that has all combinations
18:48:34bluebrotherdomonoky: what do you think about trying to get out a new release of rbutil in like 2 weeks?
18:49:00domonokysounds good, and its needed because of the new targets :-)
18:49:13bluebrotherI think supporting the m:robe justifies that (plus some of the glitches that went with the last release)
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18:49:34bluebrotherI'm planning to add some small improvements before though −− I hope to get things done over easter.
18:49:48pondlifebluebrother, domonoky: One tiny thing that annoys me about RBUtil is the Cancel button - could it be "Close" instead?
18:50:08pondlifeI.e. After I have updated Rockbox, Cancel feels wrong.
18:50:11domonokythere is also this bug with cut off string in the voicegeneration... (but i still didnt find the bug)
18:50:23bluebrotherdomonoky: fix it! ;-)
18:50:28bluebrotherpondlife: sure.
18:51:29bluebrotherme thought about rejecting automatic installation if ipodpatcher detects a different Ipod than the user selected
18:51:43bluebrotheralso, I'd like to add some autodetection-startup-thingy
18:51:53pondlife"Cancel" is correct on the Configuration screen, of course....
18:52:21*bluebrother puts this change to his todo list
18:52:24domonokybluebrother: rejecting is to hard.. what about a warning ? (maybe detection is failing, and the user choose the right one)
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18:53:27bluebrotherdomonoky: detection is completely reliably on Ipods ...
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18:54:01DefineByteJust noticed I can't select 'Ipod' under 'player type' on flyspray. Ah well.
18:54:05domonokybluebrother: only if there is only one ipod connected.. if you connect two.. :-)
18:54:32bluebrotherwell, then installation wouldn't make sense too −− which Ipod will ipodpatcher install the bootloader to?
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18:55:44bluebrotheralso, I only want to prevent the automatic installations, not the manual ones
18:56:55bluebrothermy main idea is to prevent 1G vs Nano 1G issues (like just happened in the forums)
18:58:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:58:23DefineBytebluebrother: FS #8760
18:58:59domonokybluebrother: you mean only in the combined install routines ?
18:59:05bluebrotherdomonoky: yes.
18:59:14domonokyoki, then go for it..
18:59:26*amiconn has a quick hack for the ipod bootloader to display the hardware revision found in SysI
19:00:07amiconnWorks on my 1st Gen - the question is whether it works properly on the problematic 1st Gens
19:01:55bluebrotherDefineByte: thanks, committed.
19:02:20DefineByteatleast people can say 'RTFM!' on the forums now.
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19:03:29DefineByteI'll look further into reboot's usage in the manual at a later date (if no-one else wants the pleasure).
19:03:42bluebrotherDefineByte: please do
19:05:07amiconnAlso works on my mini 2nd gen
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19:06:17amiconnThe struct is in IRAM, its actual address varies with target (and apple flash firmware version??)
19:06:22Casainhohello RB people :-)
19:06:38 Quit DefineByte ("Bye all")
19:07:15amiconnPerhaps we should collect those addresses from as many ipods as possible, *if* we want to get RoLo to work for the OF
19:07:43CasainhoI work with Atmel AVR 8 bits MCU. I would like to know if ARM MCUs runs the code from SRAM? don't they read the program code directly from from flash memory?
19:07:43*amiconn isn't sure whether that's wanted
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19:10:34amiconnIs there a 16 char username limit on freenode?
19:11:00bluebrotherCasainho: in case of Rockbox targets code is run from RAM −− the code is loaded from disk
19:11:33bluebrothersome targets (like archos and iriver h100) can run "rombox" which runs the code from flash
19:11:35Casainhobluebrother: I am reading about u-boot, for make a first bootloader...
19:12:00scorche|shamiconn: NICKLEN=16
19:12:01Casainhobluebrother: thanks - I will read more about rombox later.
19:12:08scorche|shso, yes
19:12:14bluebrotherbut iriver isn't ARM; neither is Archos
19:12:29bluebrotherbut I'm quite sure ARM can run code from flash as well.
19:12:35amiconnOf course
19:13:00amiconnAll pp targets except the Sansas boot that way
19:13:00domonokyCasainho: normally you dont execute code from flash, you copy it to ram or sram (fast internal ram) and then execute it..
19:13:18Casainhodomonoky: and why? :-)
19:13:21bluebrotherdomonoky: AVR executes code from flash ...
19:13:28LambdaCalculus37amiconn: Yes, that's why I had to drop the 9 from my nick.
19:13:45amiconnYeah, I was wondering about that
19:13:46*bluebrother wonders if ths 379 is meaning something
19:14:39Casainhodomonoky: I want to make u-boot to work on the development board for the RockboxPlayer Prototype
19:14:49LambdaCalculus37bluebrother: Two reasons: 379 is a prime number; in this case, it's a Chen prime:
19:14:57domonokyCasainho: perhaps because its easier, you dont have to care as much about what is static code and data, and what is modifyable (has to be in ram)
19:15:13LambdaCalculus37Also, 379 is representative of my birthday... March '79.
19:15:37*LambdaCalculus37 is done with his off-topic chat for now :)
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19:15:46Casainhodomonoky: okok, I think I understand now. Are you familiar with u-boot?
19:15:47amiconndomonoky: You mean it promotes laziness... :\
19:16:11domonoky:-) and no i dont know u-boot ..
19:16:11bluebrotherand it wastes RAM ...
19:17:18amiconnWell, sometimes the reason is speed
19:17:26Casainhobluebrother: in the cases of RB that loads code to RAM, from disk, who do that?? the RB bootloader?
19:17:34amiconnOn archos, flash rom is 8 bit while dram is 16 bit
19:17:42amiconnBut even then, running rombox pays off...
19:18:14bluebrotherCasainho: the bootloader loads the code from disk. But some players have the bootloader on disk too (like Ipods)
19:18:51Casainhobluebrother: ok, and bootloader loads all code from disk at boot of the system?
19:19:14bluebrotheryep, that's its purpose.
19:19:37Casainhobluebrother: I didn't know eheh, now I know more things :-)
19:19:40bluebrotherbut don't ask me too much details about this, I'm more in rbutil development than core Rockbox itself ;)
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19:20:34Casainhois anyone here which can help me with u-boot?
19:21:05bluebrotherisn't there a channel like #u-boot?
19:21:20pondlifeThere's a channel #rockbox-community...
19:21:24pixelmabut if it's a german channel...
19:21:25markunCasainho: I think Bagder has some experience with it
19:21:54*bluebrother has no experience with u-boot
19:22:12Casainhomarkun: ok, I will ask to bagder, later
19:22:45bluebrotherCasainho: check #u-boot −− doesn't seem to be a german channel (though there are some germans in there ;-)
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19:23:08Casainhookok - thanks
19:23:17bluebrotherbut the topic sounds pretty much like u-boot related
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19:23:50bluebrotherand not not submarine related (u-boot is german for submarine)
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19:26:42plbhm question whenever rockbox gets working on the d2 would it be able to make use of these eye-fi cards?
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19:27:58markunplb: what are those?
19:28:15plbwi-fi card built into sd card
19:28:44markunah, I see it now
19:28:45plbpretty neat stuff ;]
19:29:06markundoes it behave like a normal sd card or does the camera/DAP need some special software on it?
19:29:10plbI think it would be cool if that was working being able to submit stuff via
19:29:14plbno idea
19:29:17plbdon't have one =\
19:29:28markunit would surprise me if you need to modify the camera firmware
19:29:29plbto rather
19:30:13plbI have no idea how it works
19:30:23scorche|shi assume it is SDIO?
19:30:47nls_webseems like it just sends the files over wifi and an app on a computer saves them
19:30:47plbactually it was on engagdet the other day..
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19:32:47plbjust yesterday
19:33:09plbpretty cool if it could work on the d2
19:34:00LloreanDoes it require special cameras, or will it work in any camera?
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19:35:02plbI have no idea
19:35:34domonokyit seams this eye-fiis just a sd card with a little cpu and wifi built in, so it should work on anything with an sd slot.. at least according to the description..
19:35:38LloreanIf it works in any camera, basically it's PC side software you'd need to work on. All Rockbox would have to do is make sure the file you wanted synced to PC was on the card.
19:36:38plbso will the d2 be the next dap to get rockboxed?
19:36:59LloreanThere's no way of predicting.
19:36:59domonokyrockbox would have to put files to sync on the card (maybe with sepecial names) and then they are send to a samsba dir on your pc, or to a fotowebsite :-)
19:37:19Lloreanplb: Basically, rockbox comes to whatever target people work on it for.
19:37:35plbmake some integration..wonder if that's possible
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19:37:53Lloreanplb: As I said, it's more the job of the PC side app to do that.
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19:39:01scorche| has to have the "Eye-Fi Manager" program up and running on your PC for it to work
19:40:50LloreanSo I'd imagine an OSS eye-fi manager replacement would be just the ticket.
19:41:16LloreanAnd, as I said before, then it's just Rockbox's job to put the logging on the card rather than the primary storage.
19:41:43gevaertsSo what players with SD slot are supported ?
19:42:02LloreanRight now, just the Sansas
19:42:19domonokyondio ?
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19:42:21LloreanAnd for removable storage total, it's just the Sansas and the Ondio with its MMC I believe.
19:42:24gevaertsThose are microSD
19:42:24Lloreandomonoky: Ondio is MMC.
19:42:33LloreanmicroSD is part of the SD standard. =P
19:42:40Lloreangevaerts: No pure SD then.
19:42:42scorche|shno...Sansas are micro...eye-fi wont work
19:42:43domonokyisnt mmc and sd compatible ?
19:42:52amiconnYes and no
19:42:59plbsansa just has microsd don't they?
19:43:05*gevaerts doesn't know of a microSD to SD adapter. Most people seem to want the other way around
19:43:08scorche|shas i just said..
19:43:09plbd2 is the only one with sd?
19:43:11dan_aLLorean: But the eye-fi card wouldn't fit in a microsd slot. Not without a hacksaw
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19:43:15Lloreanplb: d2 isn't supported.
19:43:19plbi know
19:43:21amiconnThe contacts are placed the same, but standard SD is 2.1mm thick while standard MMC is only 1.4mm thick
19:43:25plbit's on its way though ;]
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19:43:32markunmaybe this tool can download more than just jpeg:
19:43:32Lloreandan_a: I didn't realize he was talking specifically about that card, I thought he was asking a removable storage question since he's our USB guy
19:43:39amiconnSo while you can put an MMC into an SD slot the opposite won't work
19:44:02amiconnSo-called thin SD would work (they are also just 1.4mm thick)
19:44:54amiconnThen there are slight differences between SD and MMC protocols.
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19:45:52amiconnThe Ondio's CPU accesses the MMC in SPI mode. The USB bridge uses MMC mode
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20:58:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:03:00crzyboysterI am working on an update to the Hindi translation using rasher's translation page >"> I have a few questions, though.
21:03:33crzyboysterWhenever it displays a grey text field, you shouldn't input anything there?
21:03:40KleviQuestion rather unrelated to rockbox: Cygwin after installing fails to start due to a "Missing dll file" Though I have looked, and the file is present. Any Ideas?
21:04:21crzyboysterNever mind what I asked..
21:04:56scorche|shKlevi: re-install?...this isnt really on-topic here
21:05:02 Quit crzyboyster (Client Quit)
21:05:28pixelmabluebrother: seen my simple fix for the problem I was investigating yesterday (virtual keyboard button table missing in the c200 manual)? Turns out that a line break in the opt is a bit problematic though possible. I first tried to put the break before the , which helped in the c200 manual but then the table was missing in the e200 manual...
21:06:18*gevaerts doesn't think that is a problem. He doesn't have an e200
21:06:46pixelmaunfortunately the commit wasn't picked up for the daily build round this night, it helped here so hopefully it's in there tomorrow
21:07:11gibbon_a question to the menus... what exactly does the ID2P() macro expand to?
21:09:06bertrikIIRC, it's a translated string for low argument value, large values are considered as straight pointers
21:09:13bertrikbut I'll have to look it up to be sure
21:09:41gibbon_perhaps i just say what i am up to?
21:10:06gibbon_i want to implement a menu, where the user can choose from some values (numerical, some negative)
21:10:18gibbon_is INT_SETTING more appropiate?
21:10:18 Nick Klevi is now known as Klevi_brb (
21:10:49bluebrotherpixelma: noticed the solution. Nice to know ;-)
21:10:53linuxstb_gibbon_: I would guess so, but I'm no expert on the menu code...
21:11:19bluebrotherlooks correct on my local build too.
21:11:55gibbon_linuxstb_: i need it as an integer... so perhaps thats better
21:12:28pixelmabluebrother: yeah, there are some more very long opt lines in other places too...
21:17:43*bluebrother wonders why current articles about Rockbox still mention the manual installation method ...
21:17:53bluebrotheror, why they don't mention rbutil at all
21:18:35linuxstb_bluebrother: You need a better publicist...
21:18:50 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
21:19:29bluebrotheryeah, seems we need someone to create colorful posters ;-)
21:21:40shotofaddsThere was a suggestion in the "website redesign" forum thread about adding a big "how to install"-type link on the front page, which might do the job nicely.
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21:28:09domonokyhm, it seems wavtrim somehow breaks the wavfiles the sapiscript generates in rbutil. If i comment the use of wavtrim in rbutil the wavefiles for the voice are good, with wavetrim, some of them are broken...
21:28:40domonokybut then wavtrim should also break the official voices, as it uses the same code.. :-/
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21:29:11linuxstb_Are you talking about Windows?
21:29:15bluebrotherdoesn't wavtrim "only" remove silence from the clips?
21:29:28domonokyyes, rbutil on windows..
21:29:33pixelmabluebrother: the installation section in the manual needs an overhaul - some very important info is only in the "manual installation" section which comes after the "automated installation with rbutil". One article about Rockbox makes the problem quite obvius: installation on an Ipod was described as use rbutil's "complete installation" plus use ipodpatcher to install the bootloader afterwards...
21:29:37pixelmaalready started to collect all the info and find a good structure (wanted to make that open in the forum thread). Problem is that I want to do too much at once... :\
21:29:46linuxstb_domonoky: Are files opened in binary mode?
21:30:05bluebrotherpixelma: urgh ... haven't lost track about the manual
21:30:31domonokylinuxstb: yes wavtrim uses binary mode..
21:30:50domonokyand it opens the files it self..
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21:34:36domonokyis there a way to check how a wavfile is broken ? ( the broken ones are smaller the working ones, and the broken ones dont play in winamp, but play in win mediaplayer, and they result in cut off speak in the voicefile itself... )
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21:43:14Beta2KSo does anyone have any incling as to what's up with FS #8641?
21:44:57gibbon_i think i got the TABLE setting macro compiling on my own
21:45:08gibbon_there are still wonders
21:46:38bluebrotherdomonoky: is the file header of the broken files intact? I.e. the RIFF header present?
21:46:54LloreanBeta2K: Surely if someone had thoughts on it, they'd comment on it...
21:47:09Beta2KMeh, just thought I'd ask :)
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21:47:59bluebrothermaybe you could check if the file length is correct
21:49:17gibbon_but i got it segfaulting :P
21:49:56*domonoky searches for a hexeditor on windows.. :-)
21:50:44pixelmawhat about xvi32? :)
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21:52:23*bluebrother points to gvim and :%!xxd ;-)
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22:00:02Camrochey can anyone help me out? i wanna know how to sync my iPod running Rockbox to sync with my Is that possible?
22:00:46domonokyhm, the RIFF header seams to be broken, this file size isnt correct... but wavtrim seems to work in the normal buildsystem even on cygwin.. :-/
22:03:22CamrocThank you
22:05:46domonokyno i was reading the length entry the wrong way, it seams to fit ..
22:05:58gibbon_its working... thank you for this gorgeous menu system
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22:32:23LloreanWe can seek in MPC these days, right?
22:32:47LloreanFound the table
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23:37:18*bluebrother just split the rbutil wiki page
23:38:02linuxstb_bluebrother: Why not simply call it something like RockboxInstallation ?
23:38:59bluebrothercurrently I split out the development stuff to a new page.
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23:39:49linuxstb_So what's the purpose of the RockboxUtility page now? The manual contains download links...
23:40:24bluebrotherit's an overview page and it holds screenshots and the changelog
23:40:39bluebrotherthough I think we should have the changelog as text file in the download archive.
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23:46:31gibbon_good night
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23:48:19markungood night gibbon_
23:49:08gibbon_tomorrow i will try to post my patch to flyspray
23:49:26*gevaerts goes to sleep as well
23:49:32gevaertsGood night all
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