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#rockbox log for 2008-03-20

00:01:28 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
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00:29:57deadheadhi, i've fixed the ebuild for RockboxUtility (, where I can post it?
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00:38:18reformedwhere have the videos on my ipod gone?
00:38:31*Bagder points to the corner
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00:39:08scorche|shin your refigerator, perhaps?
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00:41:02pixelmawhat videos? Are those files you transferred with Itunes or prepared for Rockbox?
00:41:25reformedthe files i tranferred from itunes
00:41:33scorche|shrockbox cant read those
00:41:45reformed*sad face*
00:42:06ryranthere's nothing stopping you from rebooting into the apple firmware to watch them when you want to.
00:42:12reformedhow shall I watch my pr0n? jk
00:42:13pixelmabut they should be still there in a hidden folder and you can watch them with the original firmware
00:42:53reformedi guess do I change from rockbox to apple's firmware?
00:43:02ryranoh my.
00:43:07krazykityou read the manual, reformed
00:43:19reformedsorry for being a noob
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00:58:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:20:49pixelmajust ask *pointing at the topic*
01:21:09AsukaI'm sorry if this is in the FAQ somewhere, I looked but couldn't find it. I have an 8 gb ipod nano, does anyone know what generation it is?
01:22:34pixelma (but I _believe_ the first generation didn't come as 8GB models)
01:24:42scorche|shthey didnt
01:25:08Asukahmmm, well, has anyone tried rockbox on an 8gb ipod nano and it work?
01:26:15pixelmait won't work
01:26:31Asukaoh well, thanks for the help!
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02:45:55sPrinGfield0207hi every one i have truble with the ipodpatcher (ipod video 80GB) please write me an howto install the bootloader
02:46:42scorchewe have wrote you how to use it...we wrote it in the manual ;)
02:47:15sPrinGfield0207yes of course but it didnt work
02:47:42scorchedefine "didnt work"
02:49:12sPrinGfield0207i use se command "ipodpatcher.exe 1" "ipodpatcher.exe 2" ... it cant find my ipod
02:49:53sPrinGfield0207error message: "error opening disk"
02:51:34 Join webguest11 [0] (n=434c4175@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:52:20sPrinGfield0207i know im a noob but please help me to install the rockbox in a step by step manual. I have seen videos about the rockbox on youtube and i like it so much
02:52:27webguest11hi all, Im new to rockbox and like it so far, but I seem to have a problem browsing my music, everytime I pick a band or album, that becomes the default list, and I have to reboot to get a full list of all my music again, is this normal?
02:53:44ryranwebguest11, are you aware that you you need to press the back(skip) button instead of Menu to head back in the file tree?
02:53:51sPrinGfield0207hi, did you have an ipod video 80GB?
02:54:11alienbiker99sPrinGfield0207 theres a step by step guide in the manual
02:54:20soapsPrinGfield0207, what colour is the face plate of your iPod?
02:54:22webguest11hmm, I didnt know that
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02:55:05soapthat is not an iPod video, that is an iPod classic and does not work with Rockbox.
02:55:10ryranwebguest11, well there ya go. :) can take a little while to get used to, but in the end it's more logical... the manal explains navigation in detail
02:55:25webguest11thanks I'll try it
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02:58:01sPrinGfield0207The last 3 signs of the serial number are Y5N. is it an ipod video or classic?
02:58:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:59:35sPrinGfield0207the face plate of my iPod is silver-grey
03:00:01cool_walking_ says it's a classic.
03:00:23sPrinGfield0207ok thanks
03:01:17sPrinGfield0207Is there a comparable operating system for this ipod?
03:01:40sPrinGfield0207eg ipodlinux?
03:01:54ryransPrinGfield0207, soap already told you. it's a classic.
03:02:18krazykitsPrinGfield0207, nothing like that.
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03:05:46webguest11ok that ficxed my problem, now I just have one last question, how do I enable album art? do I need a special theme?
03:06:30sPrinGfield0207a pity, I would have been glad thus. is still worke in os or will never give it this?
03:06:51cool_walking_webguest11: Yes, you need a theme that uses album art. Look at the AlbumArt wiki page.
03:07:13webguest11does the default install have a theme that uses album art?
03:07:26saratogathe default does use album art
03:07:45Rock4Neuros6Love my archos jukebox 20 w/ROCKBOX! ... Got a Neuros OSD this past christmas.... has there been any talk of a port? I'm not savvy on the hardwared requirements but the Neuros Software just blows up on me alot... RockBox doesn't...
03:07:48webguest11cause im not seeing any album art
03:07:51saratogasPrinGfield0207: no one has looked at porting to the classic, so who knows
03:07:52cool_walking_The covers have to be named correctly and in the right format. See the wiki page.
03:08:05webguest11so I have to rename 450 albums?
03:08:19cool_walking_The covers have to be named something like "cover.bmp"
03:08:32cool_walking_There's a script on the wiki page that will rename for you.
03:08:40soapand be smaller than the screen dimensions.
03:08:42ryranor programs to use in windows
03:09:02webguest11ok thank you for the info
03:09:06ryranvery simple, though it WILL take a little bit of your time and effort
03:09:28webguest11i dont use windows I use ubuntu
03:09:50soapeven easier, because IIRC there is a conversion script for *nix on said wikipage.
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03:13:59sPrinGfield0207even though to many thanks for your support. then I will probably save a little bit money and buy specially for rockbox a new one. bye
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06:51:53haight6716greetings all, I just installed rockbox on my 5G ipod video. so much better than apple software. love it!
06:52:50haight6716one Q - is album art now part of the 'current build' for the 5G or is it still a 3rd party patch only?
06:53:15haight6716If so, I'll probably not bother. If it is in the current build, then I am not doing it right, I guess
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06:57:15cool_walking_Album art is in current builds, but there's no resizing.
06:57:37cool_walking_And the covers have to be named according to the AlbumArt wiki page.
06:58:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:58:55haight6716thanks cool_walking_, that's great. I didn't see that page.
06:58:58haight6716will look for it.
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09:41:59gibbon_any comments on this?
09:43:23LinusNthe "Sig" string needs to be localized
09:43:26GodEaterlooks like a url to me
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09:44:05LinusNgibbon_: also, the "M" probably needs to be localized as well
09:44:44LinusNI think "Mute weak stations" is better than "Automute weak stations"
09:45:46markunLinusN: care to rename the wiki page JohnMills to PeterVasilevsky?
09:46:22gibbon_LinusN: ok picking that up
09:49:31gibbon_LinusN: replacing the M with a # ... thats the most obvious sign for "blocking" that comes upon my mind
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09:54:34LinusNwe will have to redesign the entire FM screen anyway, one of those days
09:55:22gibbon_damn :P
09:55:53LloreanThe FM keymaps could use a lot of work too, I think.
09:56:10LloreanThey're pretty much (in my opinion) the hardest keymap to "just figure out"
09:56:44pixelmaand I would want recording from the FM screen on swcodec targets like it is done on the hwcodec ones...
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09:57:21gibbon_this patch maybe breaks that :/ i didn't test recording
09:58:42LinusNmarkun: but there is already a user called PeterVasilevsky
10:00:56LinusNi removed JohnMills instead
10:01:46pixelmagibbon_: on swcodec targets you currently record FM radio from the recording screen (set the source); haven't looked at your patch...
10:02:43gibbon_pixelma: the muting is - this is the biggest mistake i ever made - done in the recording screen update
10:02:47markunLinusN: ok
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10:03:00gibbon_i have to change this but i didn't no a better place to put it to make it work
10:03:42gibbon_i hardly made it work anyway ;)
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10:10:20linuxstbBagder: I have some questions about the WhoDoesWhat wiki page that's been revived. Can you explain how all the domains are split across servers (www, svn, build, download,..) and maybe also add a brief description of the distributed build system?
10:11:46BagderrI'll try to get it done later yes, the build system is briefly described here:
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10:58:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:59:47gibbon_i will now try to add some region settings into the radio part...
11:00:55gibbon_now that i know some more things about the menu system
11:04:21pixelmathere are region settings
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11:25:30gibbon_pixelma: i know there are... but there are 4 settings that i find not satifactory :) so i want to add another 5
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11:27:07gibbon_the tuner can tune to many frequencies not specified in the region settings
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11:39:30gibbon_even though i only have valid values for the LV24whatever tuner, defines handle it nicely
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11:48:10gibbon_while talking of defines... gevaerts: your USB enable define (it was USE_ROCKBOX_USB right?)... where do you put it?
11:48:37GodEatermibbit ruins the display of that =/
11:48:50GodEatergibbon_: put it in the Makefile after you've run configure
11:48:52gibbon_i edited the CFLAGS in the makefile but i guess there is some better way, right?
11:49:00GodEaterthat would work
11:49:16gibbon_it works... but i wanted to know if theres some more popular way...
11:49:23gibbon_that makes it more obvious
11:49:29LinusNyou can edit the config files
11:49:33gibbon_well.. it was GCCOPTS where i put it
11:49:34GodEateror you could just run : "CFLAGS=USE_ROCKBOX_USB" make
11:49:46gevaertsgibbon_: I usually add it in the EXTRA_DEFINES in the makefile. Most people add it in config-whatever.h, but I prefer not to do that because I then have to be careful not to commit that
11:50:02gibbon_ah, ok
11:50:07gevaertsGodEater: -DUSE_ROCKBOX_USB ;)
11:50:14GodEatersorry yes
11:50:37gibbon_gevaerts: the -D goes for the extra defines, too?
11:50:51*gevaerts assumes that GodEater knew this, but maybe other people reading the logs don't
11:50:55gevaertsgibbon_: yes
11:51:00gibbon_ok, thanks
11:51:36gibbon_then i try another modification of my rockbox ... that feels like open source :)
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12:05:19gibbon_for the localisation of things... does interpunction after prefixes etc go into the localized string ot the format string of the output?
12:06:08gibbon_for example, a line in my code outputs "Sig: <level>" ... should the localized string contain the : or not?
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12:12:49markunLinusN: amazing! kgb2008 just posted the schematics of the M6SP on the forum!
12:13:06Bagderhe certainly seems like an insider...
12:13:33markunyes, he does
12:14:45markunAlso give some insights into the CPU in general. All pins state which GPIO number and other function they can be set to.
12:15:48GodEatermarkun: this is in our forum somewhere ?
12:16:39linuxstbmarkun: I hope we're not going to have a Real Name issue with his code - do you know his name?
12:17:02markunI don't know his name, but I don't know if he wants to contribute any code
12:17:35Bagder143K rar that extracts a 149K pdf... :-/
12:18:38markunyes, a bit useless :)
12:18:48*gevaerts will download it later. He's not registerd yet on meizume
12:19:01linuxstbBagder: Can you host the PDF?
12:19:05*LinusN is not a fan of RAR
12:19:06*linuxstb also isn't registered
12:19:06Bagdersure, hang on
12:20:00*gevaerts now edits the ArticlesAboutRockbox page, now that last week's lwn article is free
12:22:19linuxstbmarkun: So he's not working on a port, just hacking in general?
12:22:24markunsometimes I really don't understand Meizu. Why did they add an external RTC and audio codec when both are included in the Soc..
12:22:29gevaertsmarkun: if he's really an insider, maybe he can confirm if the USB controller is the same as in the s3c2443 ?
12:22:31markunlinuxstb: he doesn't even own a player
12:23:09gevaertsmarkun: maybe they want to keep the clock both in UTC and local time ?
12:23:12gibbon_gevaerts: i'll ask you directly since you already did that... is it save to format the first partition on the c250 flash?
12:23:14linuxstbmarkun: Maybe the design (and firmware) are similar to other devices, with versions of the SoC without codec/rtc?
12:23:20*gevaerts thinks they probably aren't that misguided
12:23:39gevaertsgibbon_: as long as you format it as fat32, yes
12:23:46linuxstbOr maybe their external codec is better than the internal one - e.g. does the internal codec also have an ADC?
12:23:52markunlinuxstb: they got a version of the SoC without codec for the newer devices, but the RTC is always included afaik
12:24:06 Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!")
12:24:14gibbon_gevaerts: ok... there were some strange files on the drive that were OF related... i was afraid, them gone would be bad
12:24:30gibbon_one named version.sdk and one named version.txt
12:24:32markunlinuxstb: I see "micin" in the schematics. I forgot which wolfson DAC it is exactly.
12:25:22markungevaerts: maybe you can ask him in the forum thread? You know a lot more about USB that I do.
12:25:27gevaertsgibbon_: and even if you erase everything (e.g. repartition the drive and format as HFS+), it's still recoverable
12:25:39gevaertsmarkun: I'll do that tonight.
12:25:46Bagdermarkun: is the internal RTC as good as the external then? I've seen projects using external RTCs even though there is an internal for improved functionality and for battery backup reasons
12:27:13gibbon_gevaerts: i wanted to prevent that ;)
12:27:26gibbon_from happening
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12:29:28markunfunny that the same guy who doubted that we would have a rockbox port any time soon is now saying "Wow *we* are actually getting somewhere!" :)
12:29:58markun(bold by me)
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12:32:02Bagderthat's the guy who soon will volunteer to make a new logo
12:32:24gibbon_whats wrong with the old one? :/
12:32:36gibbon_i like it... is there some written discussion to read?
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12:32:51Bagdergibbon_: the "make a new logo" idea comes up every once in a while and never completely dies
12:33:21gibbon_ah ok... that reminds me of implementing the irony transport for IRC ;)
12:33:51Bagderand usually the idea comes up in new ports because that often brings in a whole bunch of new people in one go
12:34:18gibbon_so its not a current efford going on?
12:34:40Bagderon the contrary, most of us like the existing
12:35:09gibbon_ver easing ...
12:35:40gibbon_i like it, too... its modern but not the bubblywobbly web2.0 ultra style :)
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12:36:24markunI do like the simple box-with-musical-note like logo
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12:37:55JdGordonexcept it should hav the doom icon instead... really show what rockbox is all about :p
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12:58:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:59:32 Part LinusN
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13:06:38*markun just received his Meizu M6SL!
13:08:55markunit's really compact
13:26:33*linuxstb spots a nice USB bugfix on flyspray
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13:34:35Beta2KDoes anything over then Doom rotate the screen?
13:35:40 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection)
13:40:24linuxstbmpegplayer, pacbox
13:45:26Beta2Kmpegplayer doesn't crash...
13:45:36Beta2Knever played pacbox
13:46:07linuxstbBeta2K: What's the problem?
13:52:43gevaertslinuxstb: USB bugfix ?
13:52:46*gevaerts woke up
13:59:36*gevaerts thinks he found the bugfix
14:01:41*gibbon_ thinks he found a problem
14:03:36gibbon_and thats only because i yesterday laudated gevaerts for his great USB stack
14:03:46gibbon_massive filesystem corruption
14:04:21gibbon_without experiencing resets
14:04:58gevaertsProbably the sd driver bug
14:05:55gibbon_does this affect internal flash operation?
14:06:13gibbon_because its the internal filesystem that has gone over ... completelyy
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14:07:34gevaertsgibbon_: I'm not sure now if I've seen it on internal flash, but the driver is the same as for the sd slot.
14:07:38Beta2Klinuxstb, trying to get a idea of where to look for the doom crashes while rotated 90deg problem (FS #8641)
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14:37:06dionoeaWell he's on #videolan now (through our CGI:IRC)
14:40:34dionoeaLooks like a GSoC candidate
14:41:11dionoea(unfortunately they all apply for the same project ... kind of sucks)
14:41:54*gevaerts spots petur...
14:42:18peturnot that I was hiding or went away ;)
14:42:28gevaertspetur: IIRC you once did some work on H300 USB host. Do you still have some code for that ?
14:42:41peturyes, at home...
14:43:04*gevaerts is hoping not having to type dozens of register and struct declarations
14:44:13gevaertsI'd like to start working on host somewhere during the next week or so, and a starting point would be welcome.
14:44:36gevaertsUnless you want to do it of course...
14:44:38peturgevaerts: it was based on WASABI from philips, see at the bottom for the stuff I started from
14:45:14*petur is completely overloaded workwise, spare time = +/-0
14:45:48peturit 'll probably get better when the little one arrives ;)
14:46:06gevaertsYou think so ?
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14:47:35*gevaerts will start looking into this code soon
14:48:21peturnice... modding h300 to CF makes the OF useless, and USBOTG was the only thing you needed the OF for
14:50:31LambdaCalculus37So if we can get working USBOTG into Rockbox, that'll mean we'll never need the OF again.
14:50:48gevaertsOF ? What's that ? ;)
14:50:51peturno, still need it for flashing too
14:51:25LambdaCalculus37petur: Ah yes, that's right.
14:51:40peturI should look into flashing for h300 too :/
14:52:19*gevaerts expects petur to need extra hardware to recover his h300 soon
14:53:06peturany time now... have been modding my bootloader too much :)
14:53:23LambdaCalculus37petur: You mean flash Rockbox to the H300?
14:54:06peturright now just getting svn bootloader to behave. In the future it would be nice to get the same functionality as h1x0
14:57:14LambdaCalculus37I agree.
14:58:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:59:54desowindionoea: not all :P
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15:14:46RaZorbacKis domonoky here (maybe logged on with another nick ? :-)
15:16:57ItalianPianistmmmm really nasty behaviour: memory overwrite will happen when voice menu enabled
15:17:03ItalianPianistmore or less the same as doom
15:17:19GodEaterRaZorbacK: he doesn't use another nick afaik
15:17:47ItalianPianistnoticed in my game while accessing to the sound menus: a part of allocated memory will be overwritten by the main playback engine
15:18:35GodEaterItalianPianist: Are you using the playback buffer in your plugin ?
15:19:13ItalianPianistyes i am
15:19:52GodEaterand you're using voice whilst your plugin is running ?
15:19:54ItalianPianistno memory overwriting when requesting only the plugin buffer memory
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15:20:34ItalianPianisti've tryed inserting a rb->pcm_play_stop() call before accessin menus but it's the same
15:21:22GodEateras far as I'm aware, the fact you can't use voice from a plugin is a known limitation
15:21:28ItalianPianisti think someone working on playback.c should insert some checking in case all memory is requested from the plugin
15:21:32GodEaterunless it's changed recently
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15:22:23ItalianPianistno wait i don't want to use voice in my plugins... it's currently set by default as usually
15:22:36ItalianPianisti mean the talking menu settings
15:22:49GodEaterthat would be "voice"
15:23:39ItalianPianistsorry i misunderstood your sentence
15:23:50ItalianPianistso i have to manually disable voice in my plugin right?
15:23:52GodEaterI'm not quite sure what behaviour you're describing
15:24:10GodEaterhow are voiced menus being accessed while your plugin is running ?
15:24:21ItalianPianistok i'll try to better explain myself
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15:25:27ItalianPianistin my plugin i use playback_control(rb) contained in "lib/playback_control.h"
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15:26:20ItalianPianistso the playback menus pops up and in this menu you can set various things (as you know). It's the same menu used in sokoban and solitaire
15:26:33GodEaterbut you do this after you've used plugin_get_audio_buffer?
15:26:55GodEateryes, then I would imagine that wouldn't work
15:26:57ItalianPianistso i allocate all memory for my plugin
15:27:19ItalianPianistme too... but unfortunately the playback engine "fires" the voice menu
15:27:29ItalianPianisti mean the menu speaks
15:27:31GodEaterafaik you can *either* use the audio buffer as memory for your plugin, *or* you can let your plugin do playback things
15:27:34GodEateryou can't do both
15:27:48ItalianPianistand it overwrites the memory i was using for my plugin
15:27:56GodEateryes, this doesn't surprise me in the slightest
15:28:46ItalianPianistwell i believed the playback engine had some sort of buffer checking to prevent overwritings...
15:28:56GodEaterhow would that work ?
15:29:09GodEaterthe playback engine assumes it has the entire audio buffer
15:29:13ItalianPianistjust thought was better to report this behaviour
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15:29:29GodEaterif you've used it in your plugin, the playback engine isn't to know how much of it you're actually consuming
15:29:44ItalianPianisti think the playback engine should check some sort of flag signalling the buffer is requested or not
15:30:37GodEaterplayback_control isn't even defined in plugin.h that I can see
15:31:28ItalianPianistas i wrote before it it's contained in lib/playback_control.h
15:31:42GodEaterwhich you shouldn't be using directly
15:31:51GodEaterplugins should only call functions defined in plugin.h
15:32:22ItalianPianistbut sokoban and solitaire uses that! And it's a library made for plugins: it's contained in the plugin directory ...
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15:32:48GodEaterah sorry
15:32:56GodEateryou're absolutely correct, it is.
15:33:28GodEaterbut do sokoban and solitaire use plugin_get_audio_buffer() too ?
15:33:36ItalianPianistno they don't
15:33:46ItalianPianistthat's why they don't have this behaviour
15:34:09ItalianPianistbut i think this causes also the nasty crash in doom ....
15:34:46ItalianPianist(you can't load doom with voice enabled if i remember correctly)
15:35:02GodEaterdoom doesn't appear to use playback_control though
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15:35:36ItalianPianistwell the problem is not in playback_control ... it's located more deeper somewhere in the playback engine i think
15:35:44GodEaterwell not really
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15:35:54GodEaterit's located in the fact that we don't have dynamic memory management
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15:36:24GodEaterusing the audio buffer is an all-or-nothing affair
15:36:38GodEateryou can't just use a bit of it, and expect other applications to know that
15:36:51*gevaerts proposes to add malloc to the core ;)
15:37:17*GodEater gets the pitchforks and flaming torches gathered together and starts handing them out
15:37:52*gevaerts grabs his pitchfork-proof suit
15:37:53jhMikeSit is possible to extend plugin_get_audio_buffer to maintain voice since audio_get_buffer allows the voice file and pcm buffer to be preserved
15:38:02ItalianPianisti think that plugin memory and buffer memory should be isolated... so simply if u request all buffer memory the playback engine cannot have playback memory so it'd stop "firing" sound
15:38:54GodEaterItalianPianist: I'm confused though, if that happens, then you can't do anything with playback at all - in which case you might as well not call the playback_control in the first place ?
15:39:34ItalianPianisti mean the playback engine should check if all memory is requested and stopping all sound functions accordingly (apart from those used in plugin)
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15:40:03*GodEater gets confused and decides it's time he ate something.
15:40:07jhMikeSit does that already
15:40:30gevaertsItalianPianist: it does. Only, calling any playback-related code at all means you give it back...
15:40:46ItalianPianistthe entire situation is this: i use sound in plugin, so i need playback control to access to volume control
15:41:06jhMikeSummm, since when?
15:41:37ItalianPianistand i request all buffer. But when i access to the volume control, the main playback engine "fires" the sound voce speaking something like -32db etc
15:41:59ItalianPianistthen some part of my allocated memory will be overwritten
15:42:06jhMikeSItalianPianist: that's why there's a facility to disable menu voicing
15:43:14ItalianPianist...well i think that should be enabled/disabled by the main playback engine when i request the entire buffer ... _i think_
15:43:52ItalianPianistit's some sort of undocumented "side-effect" ...
15:44:26ItalianPianistnow i know it but.... if someone else will write some other plugins without knowing it?
15:44:59jhMikeSthen request the audio buffer with voicing enabled and watch conflict for the pcm resources
15:46:13ItalianPianisti dont' need voice enabled... but i didn't know i had to disable it to avoid nasty side-effects
15:47:05LambdaCalculus37Looks like the link to Sansapatcher for Linux AMD64 is 404'd:
15:47:41krazykitLambdaCalculus37, it may just be that mirror. it's on a rotation.
15:51:36gevaertsI's missing on all three mirrors
15:51:55*gevaerts ment that _it_ is missing, not I
15:52:06*gevaerts meant meant
15:52:51 Quit corevette (Remote closed the connection)
15:54:23LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Regarding the current state of the USB stack: whenever I plug my iPod video into the wall charger, the iPod doesn't recognize that the charger is plugged in unless MENU is held down when I plug in the charger. Is this normal behavior?
15:57:49gevaertsLambdaCalculus379: It sounds like a bug, but I'm not entirely sure. What exactly happens when you plug it in ? And is this an official build, or one with -DUSE_ROCKBOX_USB ?
16:00:47LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: My own compiled build with -DUSE_ROCKBOX_USB and FS #8680 applied; against SVN trunk r16689.
16:02:00LambdaCalculus37When I plug in the wall charger, Rockbox does one of two things: it either does not recognize that the charger was plugged in, or thinks that I plugged it into a USB port and gives me the "USB connected" screen.
16:02:14 Quit advcomp2019 ("IRC is just multiplayer notepad")
16:02:28LambdaCalculus37If I hold in MENU while plugging in the charger, Rockbox will recognize it and will charge.
16:03:22*LambdaCalculus37 knows he's going to get the "Update your SVN trunk and recompile" talk :)
16:07:22gevaertsI think I see what's wrong. usb_state in usb.c isn't updated correctly in this case. You could try moving the 'usb_state = USB_POWERED;' on line 192 in usb.c up to just outside the if (i.e. at line 190), but I have to think more to be sure this is entirely correct (it shouldn't harm, but might still leave some corner cases)
16:07:49*gevaerts unfortunately didn't change anything related since r16689, so couldn't try that excuse
16:09:42LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: I can look at it when I get home. If it works, I'll make a diff and post it to the tracker.
16:10:17gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: the hard part is making sure that usb_state remains correct for non-software-usb targets
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16:13:23LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Crap. I only have three PP targets and my Archos.
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16:20:50Rincewindhi. Are Google Sommer of Code mentors here?
16:21:57peturgot a question?
16:24:15gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: n
16:24:18*GodEater puts his "Mentor" cap on
16:24:24gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: I'll test it.
16:25:24LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Which target will you test?
16:25:29*petur puts his GSoC2007 t-shirt on :p
16:25:58gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: I have a c250, an ipod video, a gigabeat f, and a h320
16:26:19*gevaerts didn't expect petur to keep that one at work
16:26:35peturhmmm I missed that you got an h320....
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16:32:56gibbon_talking of ipods... is the 3rd generation not charging over USB in the OF a hardware limit?
16:34:18Rincewindpetur, I would like to apply for gsoc and my question is about how much time commitment is expected
16:35:22peturRincewind: as you're getting paid full time, we expect about 40h/week
16:35:22dionoeaWell you get 3hours of sleep per day, eat 15 minutes ... and everything else is due to the project
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16:36:11peturRincewind: short vacation is possible but it is for the rest a paid job....
16:36:38Rincewindthe thing is, my university summer break starts in mid july, I can work fulltime from then until the end, but before that I have courses to attend to
16:36:41GodEaterRincewind: do you already have a plan for what you want to do ?
16:36:55*petur wonders if Bagder has put the requirements list online already
16:36:59RincewindGodEater, I am interested in the wps editor plugin
16:37:05GodEaterpetur: only on the mailing list I think
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16:38:20RincewindI was thinking that because I don't need the community bonding period that much and I already have experience in building rockbox I can start earlier and make the time up that I would miss in june
16:38:22GodEaterI think because there was still some discussion around some of them
16:39:23peturRincewind: arangements can be made as long as you ddonate the amount of time expected...
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16:40:30amiconnjhMikeS: I thought plugin_get_audio_buffer() would already keep voice. It definitely did before core voice codec (but then we had a different problem with voice and plugins due to the shared iram)
16:41:25 Quit krazykit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:41:52jhMikeSIt was never altered for core voice codec
16:41:53amiconngibbon_: Afaik, yes, it is a hardware limitation
16:42:12*amiconn doesn't have a 3rd Gen, even though he has many targets...
16:42:45GodEaterRincewind: broadly our math runs as follows : gsoc runs for about 12 weeks, and we imagine about 40 hours a week. Do you think you could manage to do 12*40
16:43:00GodEater480 hours in the time you have off ?
16:45:55*gevaerts needs to find an OTG cable somewhere...
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16:46:14GodEatergevaerts: OTG uses a different cable ?
16:46:24RincewindI really don't know. In the time I have off, I don't have any other commitments so I should be able to work concentrated. My personal experience with programming is that sometimes less hours per day can produce better results. So if the requirement is more on the things that need to get done then I think I can manage
16:46:25peturgevaerts: for h320? I have a spare one
16:46:26GodEaterOh - I suppose mini-usb to mini-usb
16:46:37jhMikeStalk_buffer_steal was used in plugin_get_audio_buffer but handling was modified to accomodate codec recording and so was redirected to audio_get_buffer in r11452
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16:46:39gibbon_amiconn: i have one with me but i don't have the charger handy
16:46:45gibbon_amiconn: thanks :)
16:47:34gevaertsGodEater: yes. I don't have a cable that can connect from a minu-usb plug to either another mini-usb or to a device-side normal usb. I expect there are some lying around here at work though
16:47:54 Quit mchua_ ("Holy shiny distraction, Batman!")
16:48:06GodEaterI need to make (another) mental note to engage brain before speaking...
16:48:16peturgevaerts: I think some of those usb all-in-one kits should work too
16:48:39petursometimes sold in aldi, makro... cheap stuff
16:49:11gevaertspetur: yes. I'm not too worried about finding something. Actually, I'm going to ask right now if there's a spare one around
16:50:51Rincewindthis year there is the "community bonding" period which is about a month getting to know each other, read the source, set up svn etc. I don't think that I need much time with this because I follow rockbox for quite a while now. So the 12*40 become 7*40 + 10*20
16:51:27gibbon_petur: had HF issues with one of those once
16:51:49ItalianPianist@GodEater: OTG cable has a shortciruited pin internally if i remember correctly. Misticriver forums had lots of discussions about that.
16:52:20LambdaCalculus37ItalianPianist: IIRC that only applies to U.S. models of the H300.
16:52:28*petur should try the generic cable tonight
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16:54:00ItalianPianisti mean the OTG cable: internally it has some sort of "pin sensing" that's obtained by shortcircuiting pin4+5 i guess. Usually usb data cables (not host) use only 4 pins insted of 5 in case of OTG
16:55:05ItalianPianistand aso the shape is quite different (as you can see in the european h320 models looking at the female connectors)
16:55:12amiconngevaerts, petur: The OTG adapter (mini-A plug to A socket) should have been included with the H3x0
16:55:20amiconnAt least it was with mine
16:55:39ItalianPianistyes me too... or you have to buy a special usb host cable...
16:56:09ItalianPianistnormal usb-mini cables dont work
16:58:12*petur has two h300 and as such two cables
16:58:29*LambdaCalculus37 doesn't have any USBOTG cables for the H300
16:58:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:02:42ItalianPianist... too bad i managed to get sound mixing working but my h320 is not able to handle more than one channel...
17:03:01ItalianPianistmaybe i'll leave that for gigabeat targets...
17:05:31Beta2Ksound mixing?
17:05:35ItalianPianistvideo resizing + game engine handling + sound channel handling seems to be too much for my poor h320 :P
17:06:48markunItalianPianist: will you keep using this nick from now on?
17:06:53ItalianPianisti mean mixing sound samples so i can hear (e.g.) firegun while walking
17:07:14ItalianPianistyes markun, don't you like it? :(
17:07:39markunit doesn't matter to me, but it's confusing if you would keep switching
17:07:57*GodEater wonders how many non-US students will find the gsoc payment useful if the USD keeps spiralling downwards
17:08:15ItalianPianistyes i agree. it's my "final-version" nick i promise :>
17:09:06ItalianPianistgood question GodEater ....
17:11:15*gevaerts doesn't have any OTG cables either, but will try to buy one tomorrow.
17:11:26ItalianPianisthowever i have to make another "note" about sim.. :P
17:11:32GodEaterit's already down around the €3000 mark
17:12:32ItalianPianistthe h320 sim does support diagonals, original h320 not. The sim is really fast too so i can't properly test plugins without the real target
17:12:56jhMikeSthe dsp yielding change should definitely be changed back
17:13:49amiconnItalianPianist: Well, it's a simulator, not an emulator
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17:16:23ItalianPianistoh .... you're completely right... didn't pay attention to that important difference... well.. so let's say an emulator will be really handy :P
17:16:43jhMikeSui gets jittery and plugins run pretty badly at 30MHz now
17:21:14*jhMikeS tests swapping lines 1167 and 1168
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17:29:48amiconnjhMikeS: That change to sleep(1) in the i2c driver is bad
17:30:06amiconnIt seems that actually the previous change there was bad
17:30:16jhMikeSI didn't change the behavior
17:30:33amiconnIt was never intended to sleep for a full tick when clock-stretching
17:30:53jhMikeSsleep in currently SVN just wraps sleep_thread directly
17:31:20amiconnYeah, that's why I said the previous change was bad
17:31:51amiconnThe one in 10958:
17:33:49jhMikeSThe whole point there was that stuff I'm working on does some refactoring for simplicity's sake where that simple wrapping is no longer the case but that needed change could be committed independently
17:33:52amiconnLooks like it actually should be sleep(0), i.e. for the rest of the tick
17:34:00markunItalianPianist: I'll get used to it. Llorean also used to have a different nick :)
17:34:26*amiconn checked the old sleep_thread() from way before the priority scheduler
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17:36:15amiconnThe one that was understandable :/
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17:38:22jhMikeSthis scheduler isn't really that elaborate (though I've simplified some specifics re: objects)
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18:29:40Diabolic-DestinyI have a slight issue with rockbox when i try to access my tracks
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18:30:02peturneed more input
18:30:27Diabolic-Destinybasically when i go to tracks and select any track this occurs
18:30:33Diabolic-DestinySearching..484 found (PREV to abort) moments later it says Searching..481 found (PREV to abort) then
18:30:56Diabolic-DestinyERROR updating control playlist file seconds later Error accessing control playlist file then the song display showing unknown artist, unknown album
18:31:01LambdaCalculus37What player and what build version are you using?
18:31:07Diabolic-Destinysansa e200
18:31:10Diabolic-Destinyand the latest stable build
18:31:23LambdaCalculus37System > Rockbox Info
18:31:37LambdaCalculus37Read off the version number.
18:32:20Diabolic-Destinysorry r16542-080306**
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18:32:46Diabolic-Destinythe only way i can play my tracks is if i go to teh A to Z .... and select a letter then a track
18:32:47 Join midgey [0] (
18:32:52scorche|shthat is 14 days old...please update to the newest version
18:33:21Diabolic-Destinyis there a way to update using the rockbox utility?
18:33:45 Quit ol_schoola ()
18:34:23Diabolic-DestinyIm updating now will see how it goes
18:34:36domonok1Diabolic-Destiny: just use the install rockbox button again...
18:35:47Diabolic-Destinyumm now it wont even load says rockbox boot loader file not found
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18:37:07domonok1Diabolic-Destiny: did you safely eject the device ?
18:37:28Diabolic-Destinyshould i try again?
18:38:42domonok1you could also first check if the .rockbox dir and the rockbox.<player> in this dir is really on your device..
18:38:51 Join gevaerts [0] (
18:39:07domonok1installing it again also shoudnt harm...
18:39:55Diabolic-Destinyi see the .rockbox dir
18:40:01Diabolic-Destinybut no rockbox.<player>
18:40:30peturthat is inside the .rockbox dir
18:40:49Diabolic-Destinyyea its not there
18:42:29domonok1the ending isnt really <player>, the ending of the file depends on your player, eg rockbox.ipod
18:42:46Diabolic-Destinyyea it should be rockbox.mi4
18:42:48Diabolic-Destinybut its not htere
18:43:02domonok1then reinstall, and check again..
18:43:32domonok1(you could also just unzip the rockbox zip from the website to your player)
18:44:14 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
18:45:57Diabolic-Destinyk its reinitilizing(sp) the database
18:46:40Diabolic-Destinyyay it worked
18:47:07 Quit axionix (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:47:11Diabolic-Destinythanks alot guys
18:47:20Diabolic-Destinytime to hand in my assignment :D
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18:50:11mcuelenaeremake complains about "*** missing separator. Stop." what should I do?
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18:55:41LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: What were you trying to compile?
18:55:56mcuelenaererockbox :)
18:56:09mcuelenaerefresh from SVN
18:56:23mcuelenaerewell, not entirely (my tree is full of ZVM changes)
18:56:36LambdaCalculus37Ahh, a ZVM build, right?
18:57:02mcuelenaereaccording to google, it has something to do with TABbing
18:57:18mcuelenaerebut line 21 contains "export DEBUG="
18:57:22mcuelenaereand shouldn't be tabbed
18:57:53*LambdaCalculus37 is not the greatest coder, but...
18:58:13mcuelenaerean ipod build isn't working either
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18:58:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:58:48LambdaCalculus37I had some complaints like that from make when I was trying to compile a modified disktidy.c; can you pastebin some of the code that is causing it to complain?
18:58:49mcuelenaereI changed "export MANUALDIR=${ROOTDIR}/manual" to "export MANUALDIR=$(ROOTDIR)/manual"
18:59:01mcuelenaereyeah, just a sec
18:59:10mcuelenaereI'll pastebin the entire Makefile
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19:00:23mcuelenaereerror is "Makefile 21: *** missing separator. Stop."
19:00:36mcuelenaere"make: *** [tools] Error 2"
19:00:48mcuelenaereso I suppose it has something to do with the tools section
19:01:26pixelmaalready tried a reconfigure?
19:01:44pixelmanot sure if it'll fix everything but it helps sometimes...
19:01:51mcuelenaereI already did "rm *"
19:01:55bluebrothermcuelenaere: opened and saved the Makefile with an editor that replaces tabs with spaces?
19:01:55mcuelenaereand reconfiguring
19:02:07bluebrotheror the configure script?
19:02:09mcuelenaereyou mean I should replace all tabs with spaces?
19:02:21mcuelenaerebluebrother: yes "../tools/configure"
19:02:35bluebrothermake requires tabs in some places.
19:02:47mcuelenaereI tried doing it at line 21, but it didn't help
19:02:55mcuelenaereI commented the line, didn't change anything
19:03:17bluebrotherso they must not be removed. Some editors (if you configure them to use spaces for intendation) auto-replace all tabs, rendering Makefiles broken
19:03:19mcuelenaereI added some ENTER's, didn't change anything (it didn't change the line number where there error occures)
19:03:44 Quit petur ("work->home")
19:03:45bluebrothercan you post the offending Makefile somewhere?
19:03:59domonok1its probably in line 20, maybe check lineendings ?
19:04:14mcuelenaereline 20 ends with a LF
19:04:19mcuelenaerelike the rest
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19:04:44mcuelenaereI thought it was the {ROOTDIR} which should be (ROOTDIR)
19:04:49mcuelenaerebut that didn't change anything
19:05:12mcuelenaerecommenting line 20 out doesn't work either
19:06:17bluebrotherdoes line 82 start with at tab character?
19:06:40bluebrotherthe pastebin has spaces there.
19:06:48mcuelenaerecommenting out line 104 & 105 makes it work
19:06:54mcuelenaerebut without tools compilation
19:07:17bluebrothermaybe there is a missing tab?
19:07:23mcuelenaerebluebrother: that'll be the pastebin service
19:07:31bluebrothermcuelenaere: I guessed so.
19:07:32mcuelenaerenot at the beginning of the line at least
19:08:02bluebrotherthe tab should be at the beginning of line 105
19:08:28mcuelenaereit is
19:09:02mcuelenaereif I change it to tools2, it ignores it and compiles
19:09:17mcuelenaereof course it hangs at the last one, where the scramble tool is called
19:10:50mcuelenaereif I change "$(MAKE) ..." to "echo test" it works
19:11:34mcuelenaereah the error will probably be in the tools Makefile
19:11:59mcuelenaeresvn screwd up :(
19:13:17bluebrothersvn builds the tools fine for me.
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19:14:24mcuelenaereyes, but I added some custom ZVM scramble tools
19:14:32mcuelenaereHMAC-SHA1 calculation etc
19:14:44bluebrotherah, so you changed the tools Makefile?
19:15:31 Quit axionix_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:15:46mcuelenaereit works now :)
19:16:07 Join axionix [0] (
19:20:48bluebrotherwhat was the cause (just curious)?
19:21:05mcuelenaereeh svn added some <<<<Mine
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19:21:14mcuelenaereand >>>>> r. 16xxx
19:21:20mcuelenaeresomething like that
19:21:41bluebrotheroh, a svn conflict. How nasty :(
19:21:53mcuelenaereindeed :( but solved now :)
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19:23:58bluebrotherin case you don't know it, colorsvn is quite helpful in spotting conflicts during svn up
19:24:26mcuelenaerecolorsvn -> is that a separate program or a setting in svn?
19:25:30bluebrotherI'd consider it a "filter" for svn. Not sure how the developers classify it
19:27:12bluebrotherHi, I'm eliza. Please tell me your problem.
19:27:31bluebrotherSCNR :)
19:27:49thgzI would like to create a new voice file for my unit, but there is a thing what I don't know how to do. I'm using rbutil since the cygwin method doesn't work in current builds, and I have a custom lang file because I have some patches installed. Is it possible to have rbutil to use a custom lang file instead the default one?
19:28:09thgz:) a little bit ironic
19:28:10bluebrotherthgz: no
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19:28:26gevaertsbluebrother: What makes you think so ?
19:28:31domonok1thgz, no, but if you have cygwin install you can use the build system..
19:29:22bluebrothergevaerts: Are you comfortable with makes you think so ?
19:29:28thgzyes, but it fails to create a proper voice file. The created file is only 6 k. I have discussed this problem on there earlier.
19:29:42*gevaerts now believes that bluebrother really is eliza ;)
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19:30:39domonok1thgz: the build system works for the svn lang, so the problem is probably your modified lang file ? ..
19:30:42*LambdaCalculus37 is amused with the eliza impression ;)
19:31:07markungevaerts: there was only 1 player for me. The other is still in transit
19:31:25bluebrotherif you replace the lang file in the source it should still work. Given that the lang file is done properly
19:31:27gevaertsmarkun: no problem. Have fun with it while I try to get usb host going ;)
19:32:01thgzNo it isn't (or at least I believe so), because with a clean build the result is the same... I still try, sorry if I noted a non-existent issue.
19:32:57*domonok1 generated a working voicefile with svn on cygwin yesterday..
19:33:20thgzI'll generate a voice file with a clean build
19:33:26domonok1thgz: for which language ?
19:33:59thgzBtw, english voice file generation is working properly
19:33:59markungevaerts: on your Gigabeat?
19:34:03domonok1maybe finnish has a problem, try english..
19:34:39domonok1so the Finnish lang file is somehow broken...
19:34:39gevaertsmarkun: gigabeat or h320. They should be similar enough to use the same code (except maybe for initialisation)
19:34:52thgzIn he forums and mailing list someone discussed the same problem but with a different language
19:35:01bluebrothermaybe it's caused by some utf-8 issue on cygwin?
19:35:15amiconnCertainly not
19:35:20thgzProblem in the finnish.lang file? Never thought that... I really hope that it's not the problem
19:35:34thgzin the I meant to say
19:35:37amiconnIt works for German, which also uses some non-ascii chars
19:36:03thgzIN fact the same on-ascii chars as Finnish
19:36:05amiconnthgz: What tts system are you trying to use?
19:36:14bluebrotherdoes finnish fit into latin1?
19:36:26thgzAh, forgot: With espeak the process is going fine
19:36:45*amiconn builds english & german voice files using sapi5 and cygwin for all his targets
19:36:46thgzso the problem is not in the lang file
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19:37:00amiconnthgz: Do you have a finnish sapi5 voice installed?
19:37:29thgzI make a tes voice file with r15975 wich I know to work and it went fine and created a proper voice file
19:37:47thgztest, arg I hate this keyboard
19:38:04thgzOops, OT, causing a heart attack to Bigbambi if he is here...
19:38:07thgzYes, of course.
19:39:11thgzThat was from some previous discussions where you warned me to not go to discuss here off topic things
19:40:23pixelmabut blaming keyboards is not off-topic for BigBambi :P
19:40:38BigBambipixelma: Haha, very true :)
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19:43:47thgzOk more testing done
19:43:53amiconnlinuxstb: ping
19:44:11linuxstb_amiconn: Good evening.
19:44:34amiconnDid you try something regarding the sysinfo struct?
19:44:35thgzWith a clean build and sapi5 used the actual voice file clreation successes but with some strings in wrong places
19:44:51amiconnI've done a quick hack and integrated sysinfo readout into the ipod bootloader
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19:44:57thgzFor example "system" is now "don't resume"
19:45:03linuxstb_amiconn: No - I wasn't sure how much you had done.
19:45:07amiconnGood thing is, it works both on my 1st Gen and on my Mini 2nd Gen
19:45:17BigBambiWhat is current the H10 runtime like compared to the OF?
19:45:22linuxstb_amiconn: But I have some time this evening for Rockbox things (and over the next few days)
19:45:30thgznext I try espeak
19:45:35linuxstb_amiconn: Do you want me to test on my ipods?
19:46:02amiconnBad thing is that while the pointer is at (iram_end - 0xe4), the actual struct (where the pointer points to) is located way earlier in iram
19:46:17amiconnOur bootloader almost gets there
19:46:40linuxstb_Hmm, so maybe crt0.S should save it...
19:47:05amiconnOn my 1st Gen, it is located at 0x400127e0, and on my Mini, it's even at 0x4000ff18
19:47:48amiconnThe latter is in the first half of iram...
19:48:06amiconnIt would probably be a good idea to test this on various ipods
19:48:18amiconn...including those early 1st Gens of course
19:48:43amiconnMaybe the addresses help to track down where and how the apple flash loader fills this struct
19:49:03*amiconn would prefer it to not rely on the apple loader to get the hw revision
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19:49:28amiconnThat doesn't mean we shouldn't save the struct _if_ we want to be able to rolo the OF
19:49:40amiconnBut rockbox shouldn't rely on it if possible
19:49:51amiconnWant a patch?
19:52:51linuxstb_Although why shouldn't we rely on this struct? Because of the possibility of replacing the Apple bootloader?
19:52:53thgzHmm, seems that the problem exists still in finnish.lang, because with Espeak I had the same results...
19:53:06amiconnAs mentioned, quick hack using the ipl sources... doesn't adhere to rockbox coding style
19:53:12amiconn(CamelCase etc)
19:53:18 Part thgz
19:54:18amiconnlinuxstb: Because of the (slim) chance that we will eventually manage to boot an ipod without apple code one day...
19:56:04linuxstb_What options does that leave us? The ASCII HwId?
19:56:17amiconnThat's what I hope to find out
19:56:51amiconnThe struct must be filled in by the flash loader, and knowing where the struct is written should help to find the code that does it
19:58:22amiconnDo you think we should provide a precompiled test bootloader for testing those 1st Gens?
20:01:13linuxstbI get 0x4001208C and 0x00060004 (which is right)
20:01:18linuxstb(on my Color)
20:01:44linuxstbI guess a test bootloader would be useful. Although it there anything else to test?
20:03:22linuxstbMy Video's battery is empty, so I'll need to leave it a short while to get some charge...
20:03:52 Join Siku [0] (
20:06:55gevaertsDoes anyone here know what usb_charging_enable() and usb_charging_enabled() are expected to do ?
20:07:01linuxstbResults on my Video - 0x40015914 and 0x000B0005
20:07:21 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:07:27linuxstbgevaerts: I think they do something on the H300...
20:08:15gevaertslinuxstb: yes, I can see that. The comment says they need to be implemented for other targets, but I don't know what's expected behaviour
20:13:05*ender` yawns
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20:24:30bluebrotherdoes anyone know if FS #8191 is still an issue?
20:25:32linuxstb_bluebrother: It doesn't sound like it was ever an issue...
20:26:43*bluebrother goes closing
20:27:16linuxstb_Looking at the wiki page, it seems the speex-capable version was uploaded on 3 December - so maybe it was an issue at the time of that report. But yes, I would close it.
20:27:55*linuxstb_ has an urge to implement bitmap strips in the WPS (it should be trivial), but wonders what syntax to use
20:28:05 Quit parafin ("So long and thanks for all the fish")
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20:30:33*linuxstb_ notices lowlight wrote a similar patch - FS #7345
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20:31:53*gevaerts might have found a way to solve LambdaCalculus37's charging problem
20:32:49LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Do tell! :)
20:33:17gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: it's pretty simple. Currently the code differentiates between inserted and extracetd
20:34:48gevaertsextracted (stupid keyboard again). If I understand things correctly, I can pretty easily add "connected" to that, which should mean a USB data connection (i.e. not just power). Then I can do USB_POWERED for usb.c properly, without risking any bug in non-PP targets (no changes for them)
20:35:18*gevaerts sets a cronjob to blame his keyboard from now on, so he doesn't have to do that himself any more
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20:37:02austrian_guestAnyone here who want's to test my new, almost-fully-working plugin? It's an instrument tuner..
20:38:02LambdaCalculus37austrian_guest: Is it posted in Flyspray? If so, what's its entry number?
20:38:28austrian_guestI'm posting it right now..
20:38:32jhMikeSaustrian_guest: does it do acoustic instruments? :)
20:38:51gevaertsAs opposed to optical instruments ?
20:39:03 Join Nevtus_ [0] (n=Nevtus@unaffiliated/nevtus)
20:39:07*gevaerts is dense
20:39:46jhMikeSoptical guitars are the up-and-coming thing
20:40:22*gevaerts goes to tune his microscope
20:40:52austrian_guestIt uses only the MIC currently (but you can easily change it to line in, if you want to)
20:41:07austrian_guestI tested it on my X5
20:41:39*jhMikeS 's own microscope seems tuned a bit sharp
20:42:49bluebrotheraustrian_guest: nice idea. You're aware you didn't follow the coding style?
20:42:54austrian_guestThe code is still a bit messy, but I haven't got time to clean it up yet
20:43:24austrian_guestStep 1: make it compile Step 2 : make it work Step 3: clean up the code
20:43:34austrian_guest^ this are my priorities ;)
20:43:50 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
20:44:18bluebrotherok, so it looks like you're aware of it. Great :)
20:44:55austrian_guestI know the coding style (no tabs, each '{' in a new line...)
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20:46:27jhMikeSfinally something working towards SVN that actally uses all those recording functions I put it there */me pokes preglow*
20:46:48gevaertsjhMikeS: wait until USB Audio is done ;)
20:47:32 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
20:47:37jhMikeSyou're doing that?
20:48:17austrian_guestRecording doesn't really work - in the beginning I tried to make it record properly (with a callback function that provides a new buffer for the next chunk of data), but I crashed all the time for no reason at all...
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20:48:34gevaertsjhMikeS: It's somewhere on my list. I wouldn't object to a SoC student doing it, but if not, I'll eventually get round to it
20:48:36LambdaCalculus37I say we buy gevaerts all the beer he can handle if he attends a DevCon, just for all of the work he's done on USB. :)
20:48:39austrian_guestSo I just begin recording again and again whenever the buffer is full ;)
20:49:33jhMikeSaustrian_guest: I think there's likely a reason since it's been proven to work on coldfire targets and the core recording uses that system.
20:49:45gevaertss/wouldn't object to/would encourage/
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20:51:14austrian_guestMaybe it works, but there's no information on it anywhere - only a few plugins, where it's used in such a complicated way that nobody can understand it!
20:51:51austrian_guestBelieve me, I tried for several evenings, but I couldn't make it work.
20:52:07austrian_guestIt would be much easier if the sim supported recording...
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20:58:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:06:58linuxstb_gevaerts: You're suggesting usb audio as an SoC project?
21:08:42bluebrotherwhat was the exact spelling of the Itunes folder? iPod_Control?
21:08:59gevaertslinuxstb_: it's a possibility. I haven't thought about it much. The main problem with usb-driver SoC projects is that we have no idea when USB will finally work properly, which might demotivate people (i.e. you just built this great audio thing, but it doesn't get enabled because someone else didn't find how to make usb behave properly)
21:10:11gevaertslinuxstb_: a specific usb audio issue is that it needs isochronous transfers to work, which haven't been done yet, but those shouldn't present too much of a problem
21:10:13linuxstb_bluebrother: Yes, that sounds right.
21:10:27linuxstb_gevaerts: It just doesn't seem like that much work - given a working USB stack...
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21:10:57linuxstb_But maybe I'm underestimating it.
21:11:34gevaertslinuxstb_: that's another "problem" ;) But I'm not sure how much work it is for someone who has never done usb related code
21:12:13gevaertsAnd if it's not enough, the project could be 'USB class drivers', and include Audio, HID, MTP,... until time's up
21:12:54gevaertsOr, if our chances of getting host working become clearer, it could be USB Audio device _and_ host
21:12:56bertrikoh I thought the soc projects had already been thought up
21:13:17gevaertsbertrik: students are still allowed to present their own idea ;)
21:13:35*linuxstb_ isn't that excited by most of the ideas on the wiki...
21:14:24*gevaerts has another look at the wiki
21:14:59bertrikhow about charging support for the sansas? would be a nice chance to clean up the powermanagement api and shouldn't be too hard to do now that sansa USB works reasonably well
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21:16:34bluebrotherwasn't playback engine unification an idea for last year?
21:16:39linuxstb_bertrik: That kind of work needs to be done by someone who knows Rockbox very well (and the requirements of all the different targets). I don't think it's something someone new should do...
21:16:43gevaertsI believe the main problem with sansa charging is the "strange" battery voltage readouts while connected, so it's hard to know when to stop charging
21:17:17*bluebrother overlooked half of current SoC page :(
21:17:24amiconnThe readout is just for rockbox to tell the charge state
21:17:25bertrikcharging is almost automatic on the as3514
21:17:32amiconnThe actual charging is doen in hardware
21:17:49*gevaerts still thinks it's 'yes'. He really believed that ;)
21:17:53amiconnSoftware controlled charging would be too dangerous with LiIon/LiPo
21:18:32amiconnPowermanagement definitely needs work, but not only for sansa
21:18:56scorche|shbluebrother: not too late to add it.
21:19:28*amiconn doesn't really like the idea of gsoc projects adding features at all for this year
21:19:39gevaertsI just noticed. It looks like every new port that needed something extra just bolted that on.
21:20:12amiconnRockbox got lots of new features in the past. Stability and usability suffered
21:20:26amiconnRight now, large parts of the UI are buggy and/or laggy
21:20:42*bluebrother agrees that we need more stabilizing / bugfixing work done
21:21:10amiconnPlayback engine unification is definitely something I do want, but not in the current state of the swcodec engine
21:21:27bluebrotherplayback was running much smoother before MoB went in
21:21:37*gevaerts thinks it's unlikely that a new developer (like most GSoC students) can really do stabilizing/bugfixing/cleanup effectively
21:21:38amiconnNot really
21:21:48amiconnIt had different problems
21:22:04amiconnMoB fixed some, and introduced others
21:22:30bluebrotherwell, it run smoother from my user point of view ;-)
21:22:43*gevaerts goes tolook up MoB in a dictionary
21:22:52Mouser_XMetadata on Buffer
21:22:52bluebrotherMetadata on Buffer
21:23:17Mouser_X(Someone somewhere called it "Malloc on Buffer")
21:23:31*jhMikeS did
21:23:43Mouser_XThat's probably it then.
21:24:08*gevaerts is still confused, but at least he's now confused in a specific direction, so he can un-confuse himself
21:24:14jhMikeSand "Maybe on Buffer" :P
21:24:26scorche|shlets not be cruel =P
21:25:20bertrikOne thing to improve quality would be to more clearly define APIs for some of the subsystems. Right now, I get stuck in some parts because of the #ifdef tangle.
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21:25:39bertrikBut that's probably very boring and frustating to work on
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21:26:58gevaertsI also like the concept of a comment line above function declarations in header files, saying what the function does
21:27:14bertrikAnother thing would be more internal checks, like some kind of assertion framework, to catch bugs early
21:27:36bluebrotherusing doxygen for apis would be a nice thing too
21:27:57*amiconn disagrees with bertrik
21:28:34*gevaerts thinks there are already some of these checks, like "Crash if this pointer has bit 0 set"
21:28:36bertrikyou can make debug builds with asserts and release builds without any impact
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21:29:33bertrikdoxygen is nice, but also very boring I'm afraid
21:29:47bluebrotherif you do it on already existing code, yes.
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21:30:10bluebrotherwhen adding it the time you're writing it isn't much of work (but can help greatly to understand code)
21:30:25bluebrotheronce you got used to the syntax ...
21:30:28*jhMikeS already killed alot of #ifdef crap in the kernel (working on the next BigThing (TM))
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21:32:25bertrikHas lint ever been used on the source code?
21:32:42*bluebrother wonders what the next BigThink might be
21:33:14*amiconn didn't like the doxygen comments he has seen so far
21:34:30amiconn(1) they're not very human reader friendly. (2) too long comments make .h files rather hard to read imho
21:34:45*gevaerts doesn't care much about the specific format of the comments, but likes to open a .h file and find a comment that says who should include the file, and a comment for each function that says what it does, and (if needed) what the important side effects are
21:35:06amiconnI did something similar in grey.h, but I actually don't like it
21:35:34bertrikI usually just put the comments at the implementation, not in the header, but I have to admit it's a bit counter-intuitive
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21:35:57Kornfan71Hey, I've got a problem involving my Sansa e260 and music I downloaded from Napster.
21:36:05bluebrotherthere's no requirement making doxygen comments lenghty ...
21:36:18bluebrotherKornfan71: IIRC Napster is DRM protected. Rockbox does not support DRM
21:36:45Kornfan71bluebrother: Think they'll support it sometime?
21:36:47linuxstb_Unless it was napster v1...
21:37:03amiconnDRM will never be supported in rockbox
21:37:06*gevaerts thinks that the comments in grey.h are pretty nice
21:37:08bluebrotherwell, the guys at work want me to write lengthy comments. But those also tend to repeat the function name in @brief :o
21:37:12Kornfan71Alright thanks
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21:37:33amiconngevaerts: They are nice as a description for another dev using them, That's why I've put them there
21:37:42ItalianPianist(crappy opera ... what's the command to send a channel msg?)
21:37:47amiconnBut whenever I have to change something in grey.h, they annoy me...
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21:38:33amiconnWithout the comments, grey.h would be much shorter, allowing to view it at once
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21:40:11jhMikeScould put all prototypes at the top and then one comment section at the end
21:40:14ItalianPianistitalian gold sentence: too much is better than nothing :P (don't know the english equivalent)
21:40:18bertrikWhen I work on a project, the comments I add are usually very obvious to me at the time, but they may be very helpful to someone who's not worked on that part (or even for myself a year later)
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21:40:59*amiconn always tries to keep comments as short as possible
21:41:44*jhMikeS wishes the grey core were documented better explaining how it actually works
21:41:48bertrikyes, I like them as short as possible too. They should not become some bureaucratic requirement
21:41:53gevaertsI don't really care much about comments for functions that are just used in one other place, but the compiler wants this prototype, but for things like ata.h (bad example, as most of the function names are pretty descriptive) which are implemented by many different .c files, comments can help new ports a lot, mainly by avoiding yet another newly invented wheel
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21:42:16*bluebrother likes to have short yet descriptive (and exact) function comments
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21:43:02*jhMikeS really has no idea what a "phase blit" is supposed to do (well, not without spending some staring time)
21:43:42gevaertsI think the usb_charging_enable() function in usb.c is a good example. It has one comment , /* TODO: implement it for other targets... */
21:43:58*bertrik knows a blit, but a "phase blit" doesn't ring a bell
21:44:04gevaertsbut it isn't clear at all what this 'it' actually is
21:44:11ItalianPianistmaybe channel panning?
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21:44:35amiconnThe name should probably be shuffled
21:44:59amiconnIt should rather be called grey_blit_phase(), because that's what it does
21:45:25*gevaerts suddenly remembers that he was working on some code
21:45:45jhMikeSlpaehtibs_ ??
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21:46:19 Part ItalianPianist
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21:46:40amiconnThat reminds me that I wanted to experiment with the iaudio remote data transfer code, in order to implement (if possible) lcd_blit() and lcd_grey_blit_phase()
21:47:53 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
21:47:57*amiconn should probably work on enabling and fixing plugins before...
21:48:38amiconnHaving 2 functions which aren't used doesn't make sense, eh?
21:48:41jhMikeSgrey_phase_blit shuffled = a_sleepy_bright
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21:49:22*amiconn thinks the corrected name is rather descriptive, given you know the basic principle of the greyscale lib
21:49:30amiconnIt uses temporal dithering
21:49:49krazykitthat sounds more like a time machine.
21:49:51*jhMikeS thinks trigonometrically when "phase" is invoked
21:50:19amiconnIt quickly flips pixels on and off in order to make them appear grey
21:51:23amiconnIt varies the ratio between 'white' and 'black' state to make the grey brighter or darker
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21:52:11amiconnThe old *gray*lib precalculated those states for each pixel, and stored them in bitplanes. Since it supported up to 32 bitplanes, it supported up to 33 shades
21:52:11*jhMikeS knows the principle but not the nitty-gritty specifics of what's being done
21:52:41amiconnThe new greylib does it differently: It uses a bresenham-like algorithm to calculate the pixel states "live"
21:53:19*gevaerts hasn't seen greylib working yet (only color targets), but is impressed by it actually working fast enough to be useful
21:54:06amiconnFor each pixel, there are 2 bytes stored in RAM. The first is the actual pixel brightness, the second is the bresenham accumulator or phase
21:54:30linuxstb_Nico_P: Around?
21:54:37amiconnAs both values are 8 bit, this limits the values to 0..128, making up for 129 shades (otherwise the phase would overflow)
21:55:36amiconnOne reason for this new apprach to be significantly faster than the old one is that there's way less bit shuffling involved, as the pixel values are bytes
21:55:55linuxstb_Nico_P: I'm looking at implementing bitmap "tiles" (a vertical strip of bitmaps) in conditionals, and am not sure how to go about it in the WPS code... Ideally I want to avoid adding extra tags, just an option "num_subimages" parameter to %xl
21:55:58amiconnThe other one has to do with the necessary anti-moire measure
21:56:20 Part RaZorbacK
21:56:37bertrikthis requires an add for each pixel each frame, right?
21:56:53Nico_Plinuxstb_: that's also the main thing that refrained me... I'm really not sure which solution is best
21:57:02amiconnSince the lcd is fast enough to make it flicker a bit with the described mechanism, you could observe moire patterns if all pixels would start at the same phase
21:57:44linuxstb_Nico_P: My current idea is to expand a %xd tag that refers to an image with subimages into multiple "display sub-image" tokens when its parsed.
21:57:45amiconnHence, the phase is initialized with a random seed. The new library does this just once, at init. Since the phase is never reset during operation, it stays random enough for each pixel
21:58:07amiconnThe old graylib had to shift its precalculated patterns for each pixel drawn
21:58:48 Quit austrian_guest ("CGI:IRC")
21:58:56amiconnEven though this used a very fast linear congruency based prng, it was the cause for its slowness, and also the graininess when displaying non-static content
21:59:25Nico_Plinuxstb_: I'm not sure I understand? wouldn't an %xd tag display only one subimage of a particular bitmap file?
21:59:27amiconnbertrik: Yes, it requires an addition and a comparison for each pixel each frame
21:59:59amiconnThis calculation is done in lcd_grey_phase_blit(), in assembler
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22:00:58amiconnThe assembler uses some neat trick to use packed operations wherever possible (i.e. one 32 bit add instruction handles 4 pixels at once)
22:01:13amiconns/assembler/assembly code/
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22:01:25*gevaerts wonders how fast this would be when written in BASIC ;)
22:01:57linuxstb_Nico_P: e.g. you preload a set of images with %xl|a|volume.bmp|10| (a strip of 10 images), and then this could be used in a conditional - %?pv<%xdA>
22:02:21 Quit mirak (SendQ exceeded)
22:02:26Nico_Pah right
22:02:27amiconnThe speedup vs. the old library is actually impressive. The old graylib achieved ~4.1 fps on the archos recorder (update speed, the frame output speed must match the internal lcd frame frequency, which is ~67 Hz for the archos lcd)
22:02:53amiconnThe greylib now achieves 36.5fps update speed...
22:03:05amiconn(on the same hardware of course)
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22:03:48domonok1impressive... kudos to amiconn :-)
22:03:52gevaertsDoes it optimize in some way for fully white or black areas ?
22:04:09Nico_Plinuxstb_: I like it. I guess you'll have to add a new token, but the syntax ramains the almost same and that's nice
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22:04:29Nico_Phave you thought of a way to make it work for animations?
22:04:38amiconnSimilar speedups on coldfire (H140: 8.1 -> 47.7 fps) and arm (ipod mini G2: 27->209 fps)
22:04:48linuxstb_Nico_P: We want animations?
22:05:22*gevaerts once managed a similar speedup in some java code on arm, but that was easier : just throw out all floating point, and use a precalculated sine table
22:05:28amiconngevaerts: No, as such an 'optimisation' would be way slower than the whole thing
22:05:40LloreanNico_P: you can already do animations, wouldn't the same method work?
22:05:41Nico_PI'm thinking of iCatcher as an example,
22:06:00Nico_PLlorean: it would, but it would be nice to be able to make an animation using a bitmap strip
22:06:22gevaertsHmm, yes. I guess detecting a black or white pixel costs just as much as just handling it normally
22:06:39linuxstb_Nico_P: Have you seen this patch?
22:07:02amiconngevaerts: Even more, as you would have to check each pixel individually
22:07:36amiconnRight now the code fetches 4 pixel values, 4 pixel phases, and then does its calculation without ever splitting them into individual values
22:07:51gevaertsindeed. I guess you thought about this a bit ;)
22:08:00Nico_Plinuxstb_: the issue I had with it was how it added a ton of tags. I think your idea solves that problem elegantly :)
22:08:15amiconnThe only individual calculation is to check the msb of each phase byte whether the pixel should be black or white this time
22:08:38linuxstb_Nico_P: Maybe the %xa (animate) tag could be used though?
22:08:52amiconnOn processors where that's possible (coldfire), the same instruction resets that bit, effectively subtracting 128 this way
22:09:11amiconnOn others, the 4 msbs are reset with one separate instruction
22:09:13Nico_Plinuxstb_: yes, that one would be worth it and I don't really see any other way
22:09:21Nico_Pit would simplify some WPS a lot
22:09:24*gevaerts can optimize code on a high level, but is no good once people start talking about saving one instruction here by doing something else there...
22:09:36*amiconn is rather the opposite
22:09:53amiconnI like doing low-level stuff most
22:10:04linuxstb_Nico_P: Although I'm not really interested in implementing animations - just the simple bit...
22:10:25 Quit PaulJam (".")
22:10:32linuxstb_Nico_P: Any suggestions for how to implement my idea?
22:11:48Nico_Plinuxstb_: what kind of suggestion are you asking for?
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22:13:03gevaertsI like lowish-level as well, but I don't really have much experience in it. Work is usually higher level stuff
22:13:13linuxstb_Nico_P: I don't understand the wps code very well, so am not sure how to go about implementing it.... I've added the new parameter to the %xl tag, and added num_subimages to struct gui_img, but that's all.
22:14:11linuxstb_Nico_P: I'm thinking I can either implement it in the parser (expanding the %xd tag into the equivalent of %xd.1|%xd.2|%xd.3 etc), or handle it when evaluating the conditional.
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22:15:11Nico_Plinuxstb_: I think expanding in the parser will be less work
22:15:36linuxstb_Nico_P: Yes, that was my preference.
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22:16:29*ItalianPianist just discovered nasty things about BUTTON_REC on H320
22:17:00jhMikeSamiconn: so you add the pixel value to the phase, when bit 7 becomes set, flit it to white and clear bit 7, otherwise black?
22:17:32peturItalianPianist: don't mention it ;)
22:19:11Nico_Plinuxstb_: the only problem I see is to know which image to display. the token can only have one value
22:19:24*bertrik likes low-level stuff too, rather talk to hardware than to a database
22:19:34linuxstb_Nico_P: That's easy - we can just store it in the high bits.
22:19:42Nico_PI was thinking the same
22:19:50amiconnjhMikeS: There's a slight deviation on SH - it subtracts the pixel value from the phase and sets bit 7 if it becomes 0
22:20:25amiconnThis is in order to optimize the use of the single conditional flag that exists on SH
22:20:28linuxstb_Nico_P: And img[].display can change from bool to unsigned char - to say which sub-image should be displayed during that refresh.
22:20:50linuxstb_Or maybe even signed char - -1 for no display, 0-127 for display
22:22:16amiconn(the output pixel selection isn't done via bt/bf, where it would be simple to check for one case or the other, but rather by directly using the T flag in negc)
22:22:51Nico_Plinuxstb_: sounds good to me
22:23:33linuxstb_Nico_P: I think I can handle the rest if you could change parse_image_display...
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22:28:06*jhMikeS got a slight appearance improvement by pre-filtering the random data with a simple high-pass filter (y[n] = x[n] - x[n-1])
22:28:55Nico_Plinuxstb_: I should be able to do that but unfortunately not this evening
22:30:53linuxstb_Nico_P: No problem. I've got other things I can work on.
22:32:26*jhMikeS wonders what greylib would look like initing with the order dither kernel (3g still not in service though :( )
22:33:38amiconnI tried some kind of ordered dither back when doing the first experiments
22:33:50amiconnThat was on archos, with the update functions written in C
22:34:10amiconnVery first version needed >2 seconds for one full-screen update....
22:34:49amiconnThe effect was essentially the same as with no phase init at all - moire patterns
22:34:49*petur discovers his generic usb connector cable set does not include the correct connector for usb host on h300 :/
22:35:07jhMikeSI was just suggesting a test initializing the phases with that instead of white noise
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22:39:47dionoeaWhy are CODEC_IDX_{AUDIO,VOICE} defined both in dsp.h and playback.h ?
22:41:57*amiconn notices that the greyscale lib (well, including it's predecessor, the grayscale lib) started almost 4 years ago
22:44:19linuxstb_dionoea: svn blame suggests the same person added them both...
22:44:35dionoeaWell the one in playback.h was useless
22:44:39dionoeaSo I removed it there.
22:44:45*gevaerts likes words like grey/gray. They make it easy to find a name for your rewrite
22:45:47linuxstb_ums/msc ?
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22:46:39pigaHello, I was looking for a GSoC project for this year and I found the ARM Emulator idea.
22:47:01pigaHave you already heard about ArchC?
22:47:17pigaIt is a platform simulation tool.
22:47:41pigaI think I can use it to do an ARM emulator.
22:48:16Nico_Pbertrik: (I don't know if anyone answered) I once tried to run lint on the code, but it got lost in all the #ifdef and I gave up trying to make it work
22:48:16pigaBut I have just a little knowledge about rockbox
22:49:15bertrikNico_P: ok, I can understand some of the difficulties
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22:49:55Nico_Pbluebrother: It's true there were new issues with MoB but at least now thanks to it (and the voice codec change), playback.c has become much more understandable and more people dare touch it. I really think it has become possible to bring it up to a stabler state than it was in before MoB.
22:49:58domonok1piga: be aware that rockbox runs on many platforms, so this arm emulator should be very flexibel, customicable to emulate the different arm target
22:50:03*jhMikeS 's probably to blame for the CODEC_IDX_{AUDIO,VOICE} double-#define
22:51:34pigaAn overview of ArchC:
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22:51:52linuxstb_jhMikeS: No, "svn blame" says it was that jethead71 person....
22:51:58amiconnAt the very beginning, it was not even a lib, because rockbox didn't have the pluginlib concept at that time
22:52:21pigaIt is an open source platform simulator
22:52:24jhMikeSlinuxstb_: who's that? that SoB :p
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22:52:53pigaIt is based on SystemC
22:53:00amiconnIt was a C code blob to be pasted into a plugin that wanted to use grayscale....
22:53:20 Quit midgey ()
22:53:26bluebrotherNico_P: I agree that adding MoB was a good move. I was just judging from a users perspective ;-)
22:53:44pigaSo it is very flexible
22:53:53*bertrik is grateful for album art
22:53:59bluebrotherand during my almost-offline months quite some bugs already got fixed, so the pain for me isn't that much ;-)
22:54:19 Quit Zom (Remote closed the connection)
22:54:19peturwhich reminds me... a friend asked me if we considered QEMU for arm emulation... I had no idea
22:54:20*ryran is not grateful for crashing while crossfading on codec-switching
22:54:26gevaertspiga: I'm not sure who of the people here is most interested in the arm emulator. Maybe it's best to find that out first
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22:54:47linuxstb_piga: You may want to try and talk to saratoga222 - IIRC he added the ARM emulator to the SoC ideas page.
22:57:42*linuxstb_ wonders if mentors should start putting names to projects they're interested in on the wiki page.
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22:58:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:59:44gevaertslinuxstb_: that's probably a good idea
23:02:49peturI'd say students should do that....
23:03:18 Join Zarggg [0] (
23:03:42gevaertspetur: I think the goal is that students know who they should talk to
23:05:38*linuxstb_ has added his name to a couple of projects...
23:07:15*gevaerts wonders if he should also add the USB Audio idea
23:07:34 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
23:08:04 Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
23:08:18domonok1gevaerts: go for it, there is already one for MTP..
23:08:28linuxstb_gevaerts: If you think it's 3 months full-time work...
23:08:37*amiconn had some fun reading old irc logs from before the graysacle lib
23:09:52linuxstb_piga: Do you use Rockbox?
23:10:22gevaertslinuxstb_: the problem is that I just don't know.
23:11:09gevaertsI think I'll add that other usb classes might also be useful if they like to do them. Then we can just evaluate them when someone interested turns up
23:13:05pigaThat is my big problem. I'd never used it
23:13:56domonok1piga: do you have a supported mp3player ? :-)
23:15:30scorche|shwith how cheap the sansas are, i wonder if we should nag students to get one from the initial 500
23:15:44scorche|sh(if they dont have a device)
23:15:56 Quit desowin ()
23:16:16bluebrotherare there still sansa v1 available?
23:16:39krazykitsure, on ebay.
23:16:43dionoeaWhen the player is charging, what does the percentage stand for? Battery level? or remaining to charge?
23:16:49gevaertsapparently. waldo bought one last week
23:16:51krazykitprobably the woot ones too.
23:17:03scorche|shbluebrother: the refurbished units i have seen are still predominantly v1s
23:17:13scorche| is the place if no woots exist
23:17:18krazykitbut with how long the v2 have been out, i suspect the refurb woot units will increasingly be v2
23:17:38scorche|sheither way, wasnt a dev willing to trade a v1 for a v2?
23:17:45gevaertsIf they get a v2, I guess we can allow them to do the port ;)
23:18:52bluebrotherwasn't that jhMikeS?
23:19:37gevaertsIt was dan_a I think
23:19:56*bluebrother figures won't ship to europe
23:21:43*scorche|sh coughs
23:21:46*scorche|sh ahems
23:22:30*gevaerts gives scorche|sh a throat lozenge
23:23:25 Join perrikwp [0] (i=98215e78@gateway/web/ajax/
23:24:21 Join donutman25 [0] (n=chatzill@
23:24:33 Quit BobShield (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:26:06 Quit ender` (" But there, everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the f")
23:26:55 Join midgey [0] (
23:27:54 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
23:29:00waldobluebrother: i've just bought a new sansa ( c250) and it was a v1
23:29:25waldobluebrother: in belgium,antwerp,media markt
23:30:15waldoand two friends of mine bought one there too now and they both were v1's
23:30:33bluebrotherI haven't seen any c200 in the stores here (germany)
23:30:55 Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:31:02bluebrotherbut it might be just my city of course
23:31:28*pixelma has but they were a lot more expensive than buying online (and that's already a while ago)
23:32:27 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
23:32:37waldoyeah the price was quite steep i thought .. but its sooo small .. i paid 77 euros for 2 gb wich is quite a lot
23:32:50bluebrotherthe c200 looks much nicer than the e200, especially without this strange scroll "ring"
23:33:04waldoand thanks to rockbox its also functional
23:33:41*bertrik paid 99 euros for a sansa e260 in october 2007
23:33:47waldowith the original firmware you are obliged to feel ripped off
23:33:57waldowhat's a 260 ? 4gb ?
23:34:50waldocouldn't find them here ... just bought a micro sd card to help me out on that front
23:35:20 Join dcbahr [0] (
23:35:54dcbahrhi looking for anyone familiar with voicebox.wsf script or vb scripting in general for error in script line
23:37:35gevaerts has them, and they seem to want to clear their c200 stock, so they might well be v1 (I got mine there)
23:39:36dcbahrwell I'll stay on here for a bit hoping someone knows anything about this script, I thought it was done because I didn't hear any clicking of the hard drive, so I closed the script window, but it now comes up with an exe ap error report before I get the script file error
23:42:09 Join p3tur [0] (
23:47:34 Join pandrew [0] (n=andrew@
23:49:22dcbahrdoes this channel time you out if you're not active for a period?
23:53:19 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection)
23:55:50 Quit bluebrother ("user was too long idle, quitting")
23:57:31 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")

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