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#rockbox log for 2008-03-21

00:01:25 Quit p3tur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
00:01:26 Join perrikwp [0] (i=98215e78@gateway/web/ajax/
00:02:09 Quit bertrik ("zZz")
00:02:29 Quit piga ("Leaving")
00:02:47 Join piga [0] (n=leonardo@
00:03:46pigaI think my mp3player is not supported
00:03:51pigaBut I can buy one if needed
00:04:04dcbahrthat always hlps
00:04:08gevaertsWhich one do you have ?
00:04:52 Join Exclamation [0] (n=Ex@tremulous/player/Exclamation)
00:05:41Exclamationi have a 30g ipod video, i cant get rockbox to go into usb mode
00:06:21pigaIt is a generic. It is made in my country.
00:06:38gevaertsExclamation: you are aware that rockbox doesn't yet have a working usb mode itself ?
00:07:12 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@
00:07:21 Join CaptainKewl [0] (
00:07:42Exclamationby usb mode i meant so that my computer can mount it
00:07:53 Join CaptainKwel [0] (
00:07:56pigaHow do you test the builds? Is there a simulation platform?
00:08:26gevaertsExclamation: yes. That's what's usually meant.
00:08:35LloreanExclamation: Have you tried manually rebooting into the apple firmware?
00:08:53ExclamationLlorean: yes, it works with the apple firmware
00:09:07Lloreanpiga: What do you mean "test"? There a UI simulator, for testing non-hardware things.
00:09:19gevaertspiga: there are simulators that are mostly used for testing gui work, but hardware-level testing happens on the actual players
00:09:21LloreanExclamation: Well, since Rockbox doesn't have a USB mode, you're supposed to use the apple software for now.
00:10:30ExclamationIt was working yesterday, when i plugged in the cable a usb image showed up on the screen
00:10:34 Quit toffe82 ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
00:10:46LloreanExclamation: Are you using an official buidl?
00:10:55 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:11:28gevaertspiga: for normal rockbox builds, that's safe (for normal changes...), testing bootloader builds can be risky on some platforms
00:12:02LloreanExclamation: If you downloaded one of the SVN builds, it should never have connected without automatically rebooting into the Apple Disk Mode.
00:12:47gevaertsExclamation: hmm. Is it possible for system_reboot() to fail (and therefore return and continue) on ipod ?
00:12:50 Quit waldo ("Konversation terminated!")
00:13:05gevaertsExclamation: sorry. That question was meant for general developers, not for you
00:13:47gevaertsOther people: Is it possible for system_reboot() to fail (and therefore return and continue) on ipod ?
00:13:59ExclamationLlorean: i guess it was rebooting into apple disk mode
00:14:03 Join DefineByte [0] (
00:14:29gevaertsExclamation: so it showed the USB image and then rebooted ?
00:14:37Exclamationgevaerts: yeah
00:14:46gevaertsOK. That's what it's meant to do currently
00:15:00Exclamationyes, its not doing that now when i plug it in
00:15:26Exclamationit just stays on the menu
00:15:31DefineByteJust wondering, does rbutil try using volume size to guess the mount point?
00:15:36Exclamationand a small icon shows up beside the battery
00:15:49gevaertsExclamation: Did you upgrade, or is it still the same version ?
00:16:02 Quit jcollie ("Ex-Chat")
00:16:22markungevaerts: I just found this
00:16:51Exclamationgevaerts: i did a reinstall, i think its the same version though
00:16:56markuna lot of the addresses are the same as the ones from the S5L8700 and hopefully they function in the same way as well
00:18:20gevaertsExclamation: what version is it exactly ? You can find that in System->Rockbox Info
00:18:32linuxstb_gevaerts: No, system_reboot (on ipods at least) shouldn't fail
00:19:08gevaertslinuxstb_: thanks. I had ruled out that possibility on other grounds, but it's still good to know
00:19:52linuxstb_gevaerts: Checking the code, there's a while(1) at the end - so the worst that can happen is that it freezes there
00:20:51Exclamationgevaerts: i just downgraded to r16717M-080319 and its working again. so i must have upgraded when i reinstalled
00:21:00gevaertsmarkun: one problem: this one doesn't seem to do USB 2.0.
00:21:12markungevaerts: not USB no
00:21:55markunso lets hope some other datasheet like the S3C2443X match for that
00:22:31gevaertsExclamation: Thanks. That means I made a mistake somewhere today. I'll fix it as soon as possible.
00:23:47Exclamationgevaerts: np, thanks for your help.
00:23:54 Part Exclamation ("Leaving")
00:24:55markungevaerts: but I guess it's useful for RTC, interrupts, DMA etc
00:25:36gevaertsmarkun: probably. And I guess if we have to choose between USB and all the rest, the choice is clear
00:25:40 Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:25:55gevaertsUSB of course :)
00:25:59markunwe'll figure it all out eventually
00:26:16markunmaybe kgb2008 comes up with the datasheet next week ;)
00:26:51*gevaerts grabs his ipod
00:28:30*amiconn mrfs
00:28:48amiconnThis spinup at each track change is really annoying
00:30:58 Quit DefineByte ("Bye all")
00:31:14HodappI get a bit of that too . . . I just get really annoyed when I have to wait like 20 seconds while it spins the disk up and does whatever it's doing while I try to change tracks.
00:31:40dcbahrok so it's not just me where it does that with the spinup, it makes fast navigation damned near impossible
00:31:41amiconnThat's not what I mean
00:31:49gevaertsmarkun: did you manage to run code already ?
00:32:12 Join saratoga [0] (n=41becb3b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:32:14 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:32:31gevaertsHodapp, dcbahr : do you have dircache enabled ?
00:32:37saratogapiga: I added the arm emulator idea
00:32:40amiconnRockbox spins up the disk at track change when playing continuously, even if there are several tracks in buffer
00:32:49Hodappgevaerts: how does one tell?
00:32:50dcbahrbut right now i'm stuck with the spelling of filenames because of some error in the script, even thenough I reinstalled the zip file, I don't get it
00:32:58Lloreanamiconn: There have been bugs on that for a little while, I thought it got fixed though.
00:33:19amiconnIf dircache is enabled, it doesn't do this, but I don't want to enable dircache on 16MB targets
00:34:17gevaertsHodapp: Settings->General Settings->System->Disk->Directory Cache
00:35:18 Quit dcbahr ("I was using BOFHNet IRC version 1.2 by fmillion - get your copy today from !")
00:35:27Hodappok. I'll make sure that's enabled when I grab my ipod.
00:36:14pigasaratoga: Hello, I think I can use ArchC ( to do an arm emulator
00:37:03*gevaerts can now reproduce Exclamation's bug
00:37:30saratogapiga: I've heard of system-c but never used it
00:37:40saratogai assume it has free compilers and such available?
00:39:24pigasaratoga: Yes, the systemc is a C++ library and it is available at (
00:40:03saratogaah sounds cool
00:40:14markungevaerts: didn't code anything yet
00:40:28gevaertspiga: I think you mean
00:40:29markunand I don't have access to a computer during the weekend
00:40:35 Quit domonok1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:41:07pigagevaerts: right!
00:41:49saratogapiga: my concern is that they don't claim to have a complete ARM simulator suitable for running an OS
00:41:54saratogathere is one on google
00:42:11saratogabut i'd be hesitant about using something like this that isn't extremely well tested
00:42:32pigasaratoga: SystemC no but ArchC yes
00:42:33saratogatrouble shooting the emulator itself would be a nightmare i think, and then you'd have to worry about the rockbox parts
00:43:06pigaArchC has an ARM processor implemented
00:43:40pigaand I think I could use it to do an emulator
00:43:52pigaThat is my idea
00:44:21saratogapiga: its not on their download page (just sparc, ppc, mips. etc)
00:44:29 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
00:44:46gevaertspiga: are there ArchC models for coldfire and sh available ?
00:45:21*gevaerts tries to help here, but won't really be involved in the emulator later on
00:45:55gevaertspiga: I'm asking because those are used by other rockbox targets, so they could be useful as well (but probably not required)
00:46:14*amiconn still doesn't understand how it is possible to emulate something that's not completely known
00:46:33pigasaratoga: You are right, it is not on the page. But I worked with archc team and they have an ARM processor
00:46:51saratogaits stable enough to boot linux or something similar?
00:47:08linuxstb_piga: Do you know which ARM(s) ?
00:47:35linuxstb_amiconn: My thoughts as well...
00:47:56*gevaerts doesn't want to get into that discussion
00:48:12 Join saratoga3 [0] (n=41becb3b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:48:12 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:48:37saratoga3linuxstb: i see an arm7tdmi emulator in archc on google that claims to be cycle accurate
00:49:03pigagevaerts: I think they don't have this. But it is not difficult to model a processor
00:49:28saratoga3if gcc can compile for it, you can emulate it, just you might not get the instruction cycle times accurate
00:49:36 Join webguest26 [0] (n=4ba5ee92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:49:50saratoga3though maybe that wouldn'e be good enough to run an OF
00:50:11gevaertsOF needs lots of peripherals
00:50:14linuxstb_The ARM core is just a tiny part of it...
00:51:34pigasaratoga3: What do you mean by OF?
00:51:56gevaertspiga: original firmware. Whatever is on the player when you buy ir
00:54:43 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
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00:55:14 Quit webguest26 ("CGI:IRC")
00:55:41 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:56:13*gevaerts just read the project info on the SummerOfCode2008 page, and thinks that it would probably useful to have
00:57:22saratoga3its tempting to do GSOC again
00:57:25saratoga3last year was a lot of fun
00:58:21*scorche|sh gets his whip out
00:58:25scorche|shsaratoga3: go for it :)
00:58:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:58:57saratoga3i still haven't worked all the bugs out from last year
00:59:16saratoga3but its tempting to propose an H.264 decoder + DSP acceleration for the TI targets
00:59:21scorche|shGSoC projet application: Fix GSoC project from last year
01:02:18pigaI'm studying the project and I had this idea.
01:02:48saratoga3piga: its an interesting idea
01:03:06saratoga3how difficult would it be for c programmers to add to things in system c ?
01:03:22saratoga3this project would need to be somewhat accessible to future hardware hackers
01:04:57gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: I had to revert the fix for your charger problem (which I can't reproduce here btw). It caused other problems. I'll think some more about it when I'm more awake
01:05:00pigaYou don't need to know systemc just ArchC.
01:05:10pigaArchC is an upper layer
01:05:23pigathe hierarchy is:
01:05:41pigaArchC translate to systemC
01:05:49pigasystemC translate to C++
01:06:00pigathen if you know C++ you know archC
01:06:03 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (
01:06:53pigaonly if you pretend to work with time accurate you need to know systemc
01:07:25pigaarchc provides and easy way to model processor and platforms
01:07:45gevaertsWhat's the license for systemc ?
01:08:00 Quit saratoga3 ("CGI:IRC")
01:08:09 Join saratoga3 [0] (n=41becb3b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
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01:08:23 Join saratoga [0] (n=41becb3b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:10:01saratogahmm theres a systemc live cd out there
01:10:11saratogathis looks much more interesting then verilog
01:10:56*Nico_P currently studies VHDL
01:11:33pigaAnd it is. Because you can do a behavioral model, co-simulation...
01:11:47pigaand RTL model too
01:12:02pigayou choose the abstract level that you want
01:12:02*petur thinks Nico_P should apply for a job where he works - currently seeking VHDL people ;)
01:12:16Nico_Ppetur: I'm still a real noob :)
01:12:36pigaVHDL I know
01:12:41saratogai couldn't get into vhdl non-c languages just feel so wrong to me
01:12:53pigaI did a the Theora Hardware implementation in VHDL
01:13:27Nico_Psaratoga: really? try things like functional programming ;)
01:14:25Nico_Ppiga: did you produce a chip from it? (sorry if this sounds like a silly question, I'm still a bit unfamiliar with all this)
01:15:36 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:15:45pigaNico_P: Not yet. The problem is that it has a lot of PADs and the it increases and it will be too much expensive
01:15:56pigaI validated it on FPGA
01:18:04saratogathe pins on the chip i assume?
01:18:18pigaYes, you are right
01:18:32pigathe pins increased the area
01:19:23pigaand consequently the price
01:19:44saratogawhy so many pins for a video decoder?
01:21:38pigaIt was not so many. It has about a hundred
01:22:32pigaBut there was a processor that does some decisions
01:23:14pigaThe hardware does the iDCT and the last part of algorithm
01:23:26pigaThe bus is 32 bits
01:23:48pigaAnd I didn't use in/out pins
01:24:15pigaThat why there is a lot of pins
01:25:12pigaBut backing to ARM emulator
01:25:48pigaDo you think it is feasible? Sure I should learn more about rockbox
01:26:14saratogapiga: if you can boot linux you're a good bit of the way
01:26:34saratogayou'd then have to implement support for whatever hardware is being used by the rockbox drivers
01:26:57gevaertspiga: you could also look into different projects, like a theora plugin for rockbox ;)
01:27:10 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@
01:27:13saratogagenerally this would be a display, buttons, DAC, and IDE interface
01:27:14scorche|shgevaerts: ehhh...that would be slow i would imagine...
01:27:50Nico_Pscorche|sh: the beasts probably have enough power :)
01:28:01scorche|shNico_P: probably
01:28:05saratogaonce rockbox booted, the next task would be to try and get the OF to boot
01:28:22 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
01:28:29 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
01:28:30*gevaerts basically only knows that theora exists, and works on his laptop
01:29:00*Nico_P doesn't know much more
01:29:15Nico_PI'm curious about dirac
01:29:28*gevaerts thinks he fixed all the bugs he introduced today, so he's probably allowed to go to sleep now
01:29:34*markun about Snow
01:29:56saratogafor rockbox h.264 is probably most interesting because it is an open specification and is natively fixed point
01:30:26saratogathough no doubt it suffers from the usual MPEG specification over design
01:31:50*gevaerts would really like to understand how all these codecs work, but he's forced to work on usb all the time :(
01:32:07pigasaratoga: Theora doesn't use float point, neither fixed point it is integer based
01:33:15*scorche|sh signals the guards to poke gevaerts a few more times with the spear
01:33:37ryranpoor gevaerts
01:34:35pigaI run theora on a LEON (spark like processor) with 50MHz. But real time videos just with low resolutions, lesser than 160x120
01:35:17Nico_Ppiga: how does that compare to the ones we have?
01:36:33pigaNico_P: I don't know. But I think and iPOD has a processor more powerful than the LEON
01:37:00gevaertsIt's a 80MHz dual-core ARM
01:37:01scorche|shdual core 80MHz
01:37:02Nico_PiPods are basically the least powerful of our targets
01:37:13amiconnNot true
01:37:22scorche|shat a resolution of 320x240
01:37:33Nico_Pamiconn: is it for colour ones?
01:37:35scorche|shNico_P: i assume you mean SWcodec?
01:37:42Nico_Pthat too
01:37:47amiconnI mean swcodec, yes, but not colour
01:37:58amiconnThe least powerful swcodec target is the iFP7xx
01:38:14scorche|shi dont think that counts as it isnt on "the list"
01:38:16amiconn60MHz arm, single core
01:38:17Nico_Pah yes. I had completely forgotten about that one... are there others?
01:39:15amiconnOther than that, it's hard to tell which targets are more or less powerful. It depends a lot on what the code does
01:39:33Nico_Ptrue. hence my use of "basically"
01:39:40pigaamiconn: I agree
01:39:53amiconnThe PP targets have dual arm, which are slow at multiplying but have good caches and fast ram access
01:40:24amiconnOtoh, the coldfire targets have the fast emac unit, but no data cache and a slow ram interface
01:40:35saratogathat slow multiplier is maddening
01:40:43saratogasuch a stupid design choice for an mp3 player
01:41:03amiconnThe most obvious effect: Coldfire decodes mp3 with no boosting, but has a hard time with mpeg video
01:41:25amiconnThe pp targets run mpeg video like a charm, but still struggle somewhat with mp3
01:41:39pigaamiconn: Theora requires many multiplications
01:42:01saratogapiga: should be similar to mpeg though
01:42:06saratogathey're both doing the same transform
01:42:34saratogamp3 is nice mostly because you do a whole lot of multiplies on a smaller amount of data (which can be in internal RAM)
01:42:35pigaBut do you think is a good idea to try port theora to rockbox?
01:42:40saratogathough ARM has trouble
01:42:45ItalianPianistinteresting... amiconn how much cpu power in percentage do you think 100 multiplications/second will drain in coldfire targets?
01:42:56saratogaamazingly little
01:43:18saratogayou've got 124 million clocks a second when boosted
01:43:43ItalianPianist... how much clocks/sec spent for a mul?
01:44:08saratogaemac is pipelined right?
01:44:08amiconnThe EMAC unit has single-cycle throughput, but not single-cycle latency
01:44:41amiconnSo as long as you're mac'ing, it's fast. Independent multiplications are significantly slower
01:45:08amiconnThe bad thing is that gcc doesn't support the emac, so all emac code has to be written in asm
01:45:09ItalianPianistbasically my idea is to furtherly optimize resizing algo by precalculating all pixels steps in table
01:45:24saratogafor mpeg?
01:45:59amiconn(but since gcc isn't very good at optimising in general, that's probably not a big loss)
01:46:15ItalianPianistno it's for a game... i've managed to remove every mul apart from 1 in my the coldfire makes 1x 176 lines mul/frame
01:46:53 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
01:47:09ItalianPianisti'd like to know how much cpu power is spent in muls ... maybe the optimisation would be not so useful
01:48:51saratogawith straight gcc code, both arm and coldfire can probably sustain several tens of millions of multiplies a second
01:49:09 Quit gevaerts ("much too late already")
01:49:16saratogawell not arm
01:49:26saratogathats probably closer to 15 million or so
01:49:46saratogabut i can't remember off hand what the throughput is
01:50:20 Part ryran ("Leaving")
01:50:22amiconnarm multiplys have varying cycle count afaik (if early termination is implemented)
01:52:25pigasaratoga: I will study the archC ARM implementation and the rockbox. Next week I'll give you some feedback. Could be?
01:52:32ItalianPianistmmm too interesting... maybe i can save some cpu power to be able to do good sound mixing... mmmm tomorrow i'll try...
01:56:00amiconngrrrmbl :\
01:56:55amiconnIt looks like we need to convert the plugins to use the action api (not the pluginlib actions)
01:57:51amiconnThe button #defines are starting to become kinda messy if we want to properly support main & remote buttons (a necessity on the M3)
01:58:24*amiconn will do a quick hack first to get the plugins to compile
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02:58:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:16:07UNHchabohey guys, just starting using Rockbox about a day ago
03:16:31UNHchabocurious about one thing:
03:17:08UNHchabois there a way i can play all albums sequentially in track order? so far the only way I've found to play all songs is to play them alphabetically by track title
03:22:00 Join Davide-NYC [0] (
03:23:58Davide-NYCHello all. I just picked up a refurbished Sansa C140 for cheap. Is this thing based on the same chip as the Sansa Express?
03:24:39Davide-NYCAlso, will anyone care if I rip it apart and post high-res scans of the PCB?
03:24:55linuxstb_Davide-NYC: I don't think so - the C140 is TeleChips (TCC770)
03:25:04Davide-NYCMan this thing is all cheap and plasticy. Yuck.
03:25:15Davide-NYClinuxstb: and the express is what?
03:25:24linuxstb_No idea, but something else I think
03:25:42Davide-NYCbecause I really like the "all in one" aspect of the express.
03:26:01Davide-NYCthis C140 thing is pretty nasty.
03:27:27linuxstb_Looking at a Sansa Express firmware, it has the STMP string in, so I guess it's some kind of Sigmatel chip
03:27:49Davide-NYChrmm. I thought I was being all helpful. :-/
03:28:20UNHchaboso anyone know about my question above?
03:29:43 Quit sarixe ("(EE) Failed to load "quit" module")
03:29:44linuxstb_UNHchabo: If someone can answer, I'm sure they will... Although I don't think many people here use the database features.
03:29:58linuxstb_(and it's a quiet time of day - Europe is sleeping)
03:30:17*linuxstb_ goes to do just that
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03:30:23UNHchaboso then i should just make custom playlists? ;)
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04:06:16 Part mchua ("Holy shiny distraction, Batman!")
04:09:12corevettewhat does everyone use for photo hosting?
04:09:30scorchewhat does that have to do with rockbox?
04:13:28corevettescorche: it was just a question...
04:13:45scorchea question that happened to be off-topic and against the guidelines...
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04:44:18crzyboysterI was filling in info about my Zen V at and saw that the Creative section had something called "MTP". What does this mean?
04:45:32crzyboysterAnd is there a way to do the same test in recovery mode and if so, will the output be different from regular mode when player was plugged in from actual firmware?
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08:09:39Bagder10 mentors signed up
08:12:08Mouser_XHow many signed up last year?
08:12:12Mouser_X(I don't know.)
08:13:27BagderI can't remember exactly but it was 10-12 something
08:13:39Bagderand we got 20 student applications
08:13:49Mouser_XSo 10 isn't too bad then. 20 last year, or this year?
08:14:06Bagder20 last year, this year's application period hasn't started yet
08:14:36Mouser_XAh. Again, I didn't know. I like the GSoC thing. It gets some pretty nifty stuff going for Rockbox.
08:14:47Mouser_X(When done right.)
08:15:56Mouser_XIt'd be nice to see playback.c fixed. For GSoC, I'm somewhat doubtful that will happen. It sounds like it's a pretty big project to do that one (though, one that would be really nice).
08:16:27Mouser_XNext to that I'd like to see the ScummVM port (or whatever it is. Lots of stuff to do with that..)
08:22:14Bagderand now breakfast (national holiday here)
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08:37:49LloreanMouser_X: That's one of the most unlikely ones, I think.
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08:39:03JdGordonI would guess the most likely time swcodec will get major fixes is the devcons
08:39:37LloreanDid anyone else get the GSOC email from Nirav Shah, or was it a single target email?
08:39:50LloreanJdGordon: Well, Nico_P is often working on it too.
08:40:01JdGordonnot I
08:40:39JdGordonwell yeah, but whats needed is a full ledged group effort to fix/rebuild it
08:40:56LloreanI'm not sure if he just picked me randomly from the list of people willing to mentor on the SoC 2008 page, or what.
08:41:32JdGordonwhat was the email about?
08:41:40LloreanA SoC project proposal.
08:41:55LloreanFrankly, one that I can't see has anything, at all, to do with Rockbox.
08:42:23JdGordonof course :D
08:42:43LloreanIt seems to be a remote storage solution for PocketPC devices.
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08:45:23LloreanI'll wait a bit to see if anyone else got it. Since I'm not accepted as a mentor yet, I probably shouldn't be the one to say "It doesn't sound like your project is right for us, but if you think it is, you might want to explain how it actually relates to Rockbox and make a description available publicly"
08:50:27Mouser_XIn regards to plaback fixes, what I'd really like is better back-seeking. Specifically, ADXs still bug out when attempting to loop (not nearly as often, or as badly as they used to when MoB was first commited, but it still happens somewhat often).
08:51:00Mouser_XI'm sure this is a priority to very few people.
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09:03:03BagderLlorean: I didn't get any such mail
09:05:42LloreanBagder: Alright, I'll respond to it then. I think he's just a little confused about what Rockbox is (possibly due to the mention of PocketPC on the SoC page)
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09:10:10LloreanI'll also suggest that if I've misunderstood his proposal, and that it is related, he should go through the normal application process and/or post to -dev so that the other mentors can read his proposal.
09:14:00stripwaxIf I have a dynamic playlist and save a bookmark, does that bookmark include the dynamic playlist too (so when I load the bookmark later, I get the whole playlist, and resume from the point I left off)?
09:14:34stripwaxNever really used bookmarks, but I'm browsing the manual and trying to interpret the behaviour
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09:56:50clau30_hi. is it possible to install rockbox on a mobile phone, i.e. as an application?
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10:11:08linuxstb_clau30_: Someone has ported the UI simulator to the Motorola ROKR phones
10:11:31clau30_linuxstb_: link or smtg?
10:13:10linuxstb_ - but all the work is taking place on the Motorola forums, the author doesn't seem to want to incorporate his changes back
10:13:55linuxstb_See also here (and the link in the first post)
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10:17:55clau30_not too much hope :)
10:18:01clau30_at least not that easy
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10:28:25linuxstb_clau30_: What do you mean by "not too much hope"? Do you want to port it to another kind of phone?
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10:30:01clau30_linuxstb_: yea, on a sony ericsson walkman. I don't think I will though, I wouldn't have any idea where to start
10:30:57linuxstb_Does it allow you to install 3rd party applications? Is there a freely available SDK?
10:32:04clau30_good question :) let me check
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10:33:13linuxstb_So your device is a phone with walkman features?
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10:34:15clau30_kind of, it's the walkman series from sony ericsson...
10:35:23dionoeais that the new ultra slim one?
10:35:37clau30_no, it's an older one
10:35:43clau30_w200i is mine
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10:38:49clau30_heh, there is a
10:40:42clau30_so, it's based on java me
10:43:00linuxstb_I think the newer Sony Ericsson phones run Symbian - which is much more likely to get a Rockbox port (due to the number of devices using it)
10:46:26clau30_don't the older ones (like mine) use it too?
10:46:52linuxstb_I don't think so, no. At least that wikipedia article doesn't mention it.
10:47:06linuxstb_(and I would have expected it to)
10:47:46linuxstb_Apparently the W950 was the first -
10:49:57*linuxstb_ hopes a student wants to do a Symbian port for Google Summer of Code
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10:52:30clau30_I'm a student :P
10:53:16clau30_oh well, I have to be happy with my current player :)
10:55:38markunlinuxstb_: did you read that we found the complete schematics of the Meizu M6SP?
10:56:00linuxstb_markun: Yes, I was there when you said it (and commented..) ;)
10:56:00markunwell, 'we' begin kgb2008 :)
10:56:45markunI didn't even remember.
10:57:39markunkgb2008 told me that the s3c6400 would (probably?) contain some useful info about the various blocks in our SoC. After searching a lot I found the datasheet, but so far I don't know how useful it is.
10:57:42linuxstb_markun: BTW, is there a reason you haven't added text-to-speech as an SoC2008 project?
10:58:36markunwell, with the espeak patch in the tracker and the license problem I think we're a bit stuck
10:58:49markundo you think a student should port another engine?
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10:59:27linuxstb_I think we have to - or fork an older version of espeak...
11:00:17markunquite sad that we probably have similar ideas about open source yet can't use our projects together
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11:00:51linuxstb_But didn't your student want to port something else anyway?
11:01:15markunhe did, but I prefer espeak over flite.
11:01:34linuxstb_Yes, I know.
11:01:49linuxstb_But would flite be a bad choice, given espeak's problems?
11:01:57markunI have a hard time getting used to the buttons and touchpad of the Meizu..
11:02:08LloreanFlite's surely better than nothing.
11:02:09markunfor english only I guess it's ok
11:02:25linuxstb_I guess we have the choice of flite or "old espeak"
11:03:20LloreanDid we ever finish speaking with the espeak author?
11:03:21markunI think even an older espeak is better than flite, which also isn't worked on anymore
11:03:49LloreanLast I heard, he didn't understand that we'd have to compile his software into our program to use it, so didn't see the license conflict.
11:03:59LloreanI'd honestly prefer "old espeak" from a listener's perspective. I find voices generated with it easier to understand, especially with noise.
11:05:54markunyes, I can imagine that rockbox plugins just look like applications. Other projects can also use plugins with different licenses.
11:06:32linuxstb_"can" or "do" ?
11:06:44markunyes, do
11:07:12markunI talked to some guys during the gsoc summit who worked on one of those xmms spinoffs
11:07:30markunand they didn't really understand our problem
11:08:50markunI'm trying to find some info on it
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11:09:33LloreanWell, espeak would hardly be a plugin anyway.
11:09:43markunit could be a codec
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11:10:05linuxstb_This is what GNU say -
11:11:09markunyes, and xmms thought they could work around that (which I think is false) by: "The XMMS plugin API is published under a BSD license
11:11:12markunthat permits proprietary binary-only plugins or plugins that are GPL/LGPL/Open
11:11:16markunSource compliant."
11:11:17nls_webthe usefullness of it would be severely limited if we had to have it as a plugin only...
11:11:22markunhere anyway:
11:13:01markunnls_web: but if we had it as a voice codec like we use speex?
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11:22:04*amiconn would rather not use some code than trying to find dirty tricks to get around gpl requirements
11:22:22*amiconn actually did this once already
11:22:42markunamiconn: I also don't think such a hack is even legal
11:24:42amiconnI wanted to port XSkat, but its license is gpl incompatible. I contacted the author, but he refused to put XSkat under a gpl compatible license one way or another. So I won't port it, even though it would be nice to have a Skat game plugin...
11:25:18nls_webmarkun: maybe but speex is compiled in so we would have to invent some other way to do it...
11:25:46*nls_web googles XSkat
11:29:40markunwhy do there have to be multiple versions of the GPL :(
11:30:24amiconnespeak is gplv3?
11:30:34markunwhich you also prefer, right?
11:31:03markunI've never read the v3 license in detail
11:32:09*linuxstb_ abandoned a mame port for the same reason...
11:32:22amiconnI prefer the gpl v3 because of 2 details: it has rules which try to prevent tivoisation, and it explicitly forbids drm code
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11:33:28markunwhat's the advantage of forbidding drm code?
11:33:31linuxstb_I don't have strong objections to DRM (although I never "buy" such tracks), but I prefer v3 because of the no-tivoisation clauses.
11:33:48nls_webWas it ever concluded if we could convert rockbox to gplv3?
11:34:54linuxstb_I still think we could (for code that isn't explitly v2 only - e.g. code we've imported from Linux), but others disagree with my interpretation of the standard Rockbox license.
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11:35:04linuxstb_And there are others that don't want to move to v3...
11:35:12linuxstb_(regardless of whether it's possible or not)
11:36:17gevaertsFor the record : I don't mind any of the code I submitted to be GPLv3.
11:37:39*gevaerts rereads that three times and gets confused. Let's just say "My code can be GPLv3 if the project wants that"
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12:57:08ItalianPianistinfo: does the default compilation settings automatically compute every macro expression (eg LCD_WIDTH/3*etc) ? (i suppose yes...asked just to be sure)
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13:00:21markunyes, macros are evaluated before compilation starts
13:02:37*ItalianPianist is waiting his pc to compile new optimized resize routine...
13:03:17Nico_PItalianPianist: image resize?
13:03:32markunItalianPianist: what are you working on?
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13:04:14ItalianPianistjust a "stupid" image resize routine to resize a frame from 320x200 to 220x176
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13:15:50markuna frame of what?
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13:33:14*ItalianPianist is really happy to see now soundmix can be done realtime on his H320
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13:37:40DefineByteWill someone commit fs#8775 please?
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13:41:57yaviis there any possiblility to modify the output when the ipod is connected via dock to an amplifier?
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13:42:40yaviI find there is much less power in this output compared to a CD
13:42:40fiXXXerMetGoing to install rockbox on my sansa e260r today :)
13:43:08fiXXXerMetWill it, by any chance, delete all of the music that I have already on my device?
13:43:21krazykitfiXXXerMet, it does not delete anything.
13:43:24yavior is it a hardware lack..
13:43:29peturfiXXXerMet: backing up does not hurt
13:44:06DefineByteThe dock connector should be outputting at line level.
13:44:24yavibut it does not XD
13:44:45Beta2KIt might be
13:44:46yavibecause comparing it with a CD there is something like a 40% less
13:44:50DefineBytedo you know your CD player does?
13:45:12Beta2KYour iPod might be outputting at the -10dB spec and you CD player may be running at +4dB
13:45:26yavimm no I don't know the output of the cd but I see it much better
13:45:43gevaertsAre you comparing the same track on both ?
13:45:55yaviyes and no
13:46:27yaviin the ipod I am playing the same song in *.flac and in the CD the same one but in an original cd
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13:46:41Beta2KDid you gain alter your mp3s?
13:46:49Beta2KAre you using the iPod EQ?
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13:47:10yaviI did not modify any parameter in the ipod
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13:47:39DefineByteWhat's the output like in the original firmware?
13:47:58yaviI am affraid i do not know it..
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13:48:17yavibut do you know if it is normal to have this "problem"
13:49:10yaviit is not that I cannot get enough with it, but at 80w of the amplifier it can be played with the ipod but with a cd it is almost impossible XD
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13:50:02markunyavi: lineout is set to 0dB, I think you could set it to +6 if you compile your own rockbox build
13:50:04yaviimagine I am loosing about 20w with the IPOD or something like that
13:50:37yavithere is no way to configure it from rockbox?
13:50:43markunno way
13:50:46yavibecause I have no idea about programming :(
13:51:03markunwell, it's not so difficult as you might think :)
13:51:03DefineByteWould it be a good idea to be able to set the line level you want your DAP to output?
13:51:23DefineBytei.e. -10 or +4
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13:51:42yaviwait a second I am going to try ..
13:51:51gevaertsAre the gain settings on the flacs correct ? (Don't ask me how to check this)
13:52:48markunyavi: you are not using replaygain, are you?
13:53:20yaviem,,,, any change I made on volume or equalizer from rockbox does not work with the dock
13:53:45yaviit sends a standard output I think
13:53:51markunthat can't be
13:54:19yaviI modify the volume and nothing happends
13:54:33markunbut the equalizer should change the sound
13:54:48yaviI am going to check again
13:56:34yaviit works it works
13:56:40Beta2KThe EQ modifies the gain of the digital audio so it should change your line out level
13:56:55Beta2KReally sounds like you just happen to have a +4dB outputting CD player
13:57:18Beta2KYou not "loosing" anything, the signal is just a bit hotter from teh CD player
13:57:31Beta2KWhich isn't that uncommon
13:58:45Beta2KHome audio gear tends to output rather hot
13:58:46fiXXXerMetI've been hoding the record button for a minute now and nothing has happened. Step 2.3 @
13:59:48gevaertsDid you do step 4 ?
14:00:00advcomp2019fiXXXerMet, what firmware is on your sansa right now
14:00:04fiXXXerMetOHH, I get it
14:00:06*gevaerts means 2.4
14:00:16fiXXXerMetadvcomp2019: I forget, but it is a version 1 model
14:00:21advcomp2019o ok
14:00:52fiXXXerMetah there we go!
14:02:37gevaertsfiXXXerMet: any recommendations to improve the text ?
14:03:07fiXXXerMetStep 2.3 makes you think that you should hold the Record button until it tells you to let go, AND THEN do step 2.4
14:04:34linuxstbWe could change it to "continue to hold it during the next two parts of this step"
14:05:27DefineByteIt certainly sounds like you're supposed to hild it untill something appears on the screen. :)
14:05:34linuxstbBut aren't those steps now obsolete (with e200rpatcher) ?
14:05:46advcomp2019fiXXXerMet, those are the old steps
14:06:01fiXXXerMettoo late, alrady patched the bootloader
14:06:38fiXXXerMetStill booted up so I guess it's not so bad
14:06:40linuxstbfiXXXerMet: It's not a problem, you just did it the hard way...
14:06:52linuxstbfiXXXerMet: How did you find those instructions though?
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14:07:31fiXXXerMetI don't remember :)
14:07:46fiXXXerMetoh. I searched for e200r and it came up.
14:07:51fiXXXerMetThrough the wiki.
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14:08:45fiXXXerMethard way? That was super easy :)
14:09:05DefineByte'(old)' and a link to the new instructions should be added perhaps? :)
14:09:35advcomp2019fiXXXerMet, here is the safer and newer ones..
14:09:54linuxstbDefineByte: Already done
14:10:03gevaertsfiXXXerMet: It's only easy if you read the instructions and follow them ;) Lots of people don't seem to like doing that
14:10:30fiXXXerMetSo should be up to date? The downloads are the most recent?
14:13:13fiXXXerMetStep 2 from the above link unzips to ./.rockbox. Should it be ./rockbox?
14:13:40gevaertsI think the SansaE200RInstallationFromLinux page shouldn't include the rm -rf ~/sansa/ line. If people follow that blindly, and already had a sansa directory, this could be dangerous
14:13:40Beta2Kthe directory is .rockbox
14:14:41linuxstbgevaerts: IMO, those instructions are far too "do this blindly" in nature... But no-one seems to complain.
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14:16:48gevaertslinuxstb: I agree, but then I think that someone who doesn't know how to mount a filesystem or copy files shouldn't use linux
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14:17:40*gevaerts makes an exception for people just starting out, but they should be busy learning about their system, not installing rockbox
14:18:13DefineByteHow do you learn if not by doing?
14:18:48gevaertsDefineByte: I added the excpetion especially for those cases
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14:19:08*gevaerts doesn't really remember how he learned this
14:19:16linuxstbDefineByte: The instructions could do both - i.e. explain what to do, and then give an example of how to do it...
14:19:57DefineByteMay be a good idea, as long as it doesn't get too technical.
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14:20:32fiXXXerMetStep 10 @ says "cp .rockbox/ mnt/" but shouldn't the cp have the -r argument since .rockbox is a directory?
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14:21:57dionoeafiXXXerMet: indeed.
14:24:26linuxstbBetter would be to unzip directly to the device - "unzip -d /mnt/"
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14:25:15dionoea+ -o
14:25:50linuxstbFor a first-time install?
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14:26:10dionoeaAh, maybe not then :)
14:26:20dionoeaBut in case they ever use the same procedure to update.
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14:28:16fiXXXerMetWell that was much easier to install than I had thought it would be.
14:28:28fiXXXerMetThe skins are horrible though :-p
14:28:48 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:29:25Beta2KDownload some better ones from teh WPS page
14:29:36fiXXXerMetworking on it ;)
14:29:59fiXXXerMetWPS? ?
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14:30:27dionoeaWPS is the while playing screen
14:30:44fiXXXerMetWow, there are a lot of themes
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15:05:50markungevaerts: still here?
15:06:07markunWe now have the S5L8700X datasheet!
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15:06:29markunIt has "Samsung Confidential" written in big letters on every page...
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15:13:32gevaertsmarkun: great !
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15:25:18codesquidgevaerts, are you aware of any problems with charging on sansa e200 with USE_ROCKBOX_USB set?
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15:27:08gevaertscodesquid: no
15:27:35codesquidcan't fully charge my e280 anymore, it stops at around 3.8 volts
15:28:08gevaertsDoes it work with the official build ?
15:28:09codesquidit was possible a while ago to charge it fully by plugging in the cable while the unit was shut-off
15:28:37gevaertsWhat revision are you using ?
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15:30:04codesquidr16611 changed the bahavior if booting while plugged in
15:30:26codesquidand broke the ability to fully charge up for me :(
15:31:35gevaertsThat probably also broke it for the official build then. Can you verify that ?
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15:32:13codesquidalso, r16717 freezes if I boot with the cable plugged in since I used sansapatcher with the -bl argument to get rid of the original bootloader
15:32:24 Join corevette [0] (
15:32:58codesquidusing the patch from FS #8642
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15:34:53gevaertsMaybe the OB does some hardware initialisation that isn't done anymore now ?
15:35:22codesquidno clue
15:35:38codesquidlet me try charging with latest official rockbox build
15:35:46codesquidbrb, need to reboot
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15:41:05gevaertscodesquid: can you try unboosting manually when connected ?
15:41:35codesquidhow to do so?
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15:42:34gevaertsSystem->Debug->CPU frequency, and then Down
15:42:43gevaertsThen left to get out of the menu
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15:42:54codesquidah, connecting cable while holding center button first, right?
15:44:04codesquidkies, unboosted
15:44:13codesquiddamn autocomplete
15:44:17gevaertsOK. Now see if it charges
15:44:54codesquidoh interesting, center button in that screen further reduces it from 30MHz to 24Mhz
15:45:12 Quit sarixe (Client Quit)
15:45:26gevaertsI think it's Left to get out of that screen
16:02:24markunhave a nice weekend!
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16:07:04*gevaerts will have an entire weekend to study specs
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16:19:15Nico_Pmarkun: what is the S5L8700X used for?
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16:19:58Nico_Pah, the M6?
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16:47:05gevaertscodesquid: any results ?
16:47:55codesquidmanually unboosting does not fix charging
16:48:20codesquidbattery still at abouts 3.8 volts
16:50:04*gevaerts is going to be annoying...
16:50:29gevaertscodesquid: Any chance of trying with the original bootloader ?
16:50:40codesquidwill try
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16:59:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:01:40codesquidwhoops, need e200tool
17:05:58 Quit midgey ()
17:06:04codesquidhmm interesting
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17:13:43gevaertscodesquid: interesting in the "this will need lots of work" sense ?
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17:20:08Spambot01spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam(and noone can or will stop me!!!)
17:20:38*petur pings Bagder, scorche,...
17:22:02codesquidgevaerts, yes
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17:24:00gevaertscodesquid: problems with bootloaders ? Those are always fun...
17:24:06codesquidyep :(
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17:24:26codesquidgevaerts, with e200tool recover I can restore original bootloader
17:24:36codesquidsandisk logo appears and then nothing :(
17:24:56codesquidscreen stays back, blue ring stays on
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17:25:24Spambot04Spambot virus attached to irc feed. Now spawning...
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17:25:45Mode"#rockbox +o logbot " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
17:26:17codesquidgevaerts, more progress!
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17:26:27DBUGSent KICK Spambot01 to server
17:26:28Kick(#rockbox Spambot01 :Rotten persons outside, please) by logbot!n=bjst@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
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17:26:31codesquidwhile e200tool is restorig bootloader I hold down rec
17:26:39codesquidafter that it manages to boot into recovery mode
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17:26:47codesquidnow I can actually install OF again :P
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17:27:58*petur fears that if he asks logbot to ban that all cgi users will be banned
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17:28:26*gevaerts fears that there might be little choice
17:28:30perrikpban ip
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17:28:51Mode"#rockbox +o amiconn " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
17:29:00DerPapstworth a try. if you can unban afterwards.
17:29:09peturamiconn will fix it
17:29:19Mode"#rockbox +b *!*62dcbd9e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/* " by amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
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17:29:53Mode"#rockbox -o amiconn " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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17:32:19*gevaerts learned something
17:33:33 Quit gevaerts ("time to really start this weekend")
17:35:22*petur does another afk long-weekend
17:35:32 Quit petur ("back on tuesday")
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17:55:32tempguesthi everybody
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17:59:50tempguestbye everybody
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18:09:08codesquidI give up
18:09:17codesquidI am unable to restore original bootloader
18:09:33codesquidonly the rockbox one works (with sansapatcher -bl)
18:10:28gevaertsWhat goes wrong ?
18:11:24codesquidit just doesn't boot anymore
18:12:21codesquiddid e200tool recover, made it to boot into recovery mode while holding rec while e200tool worked, then I copied the OF .mi4 file and created sansa.fmt, unplugged cable
18:12:55codesquiddoesn't come up then
18:13:14codesquidback into manufacturing mode, e200tool, let it work and when it finished OF came up
18:13:19 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:13:24codesquidnote a normal reboot still didn't work
18:13:30gevaertsWhat _might_ help is booting rockbox with a usb-enabled build, then zeroing the firmware partition. At least on c200 the OF doesn't really handle unexpected data well
18:14:05codesquidwith dd I suppose?
18:14:47gevaertsYes. dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdwhatever2. Also make sure that the data partition isn't corrupted
18:15:05codesquiddata partition is freshly formatted I think
18:15:18gevaertsThat should be fine then.
18:17:25gevaertsLosNir had basically the same problem on c250 in
18:17:48codesquidhmm the partition table seems odd
18:18:30gevaertsWhat does it look like ?
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18:21:11gevaertsMight look odd, but it is correct (it matches another e280 partition table that I got from someone a while ago)
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18:21:57codesquidI'll try zeroing-out the firmware partition
18:23:48gevaertsThe key to be able to reinstall the OF bootloader on c200 seems to be (a) a correct partition table and FAT, and (b) no half-correct remains of the OF (i.e. you need either zeroes or a working OF)
18:24:52gevaertsI wasn't sure if e200 was the same (I only have data from three c250 users, including me), so in a sense it's useful to know that you have the issue as well
18:30:17codesquidI think I always land in the prebootloader USB mode
18:30:41codesquidI can install the rockbox bootloader through some hoops, just not the OF one
18:31:04codesquidgevaerts, do you by change have the OF bootloader for e280 that works with sansapatcher -bl ?
18:31:40codesquid(european edition)
18:32:18gevaertsNo. I'm not really a sansa specialist. The only things I know were learned by randomly writing stuff to the internal flash through early usb bugs, and then spending two days recovering
18:33:12codesquidif you try long enough writing from /dev/random it will eventually work ;)
18:34:03gevaertsIt was my first test of the usb sd card support. Only the code wrote to the wrong device, so it read from sd and wrote to internal. After copying about 1.5GB of mp3s it didn't boot any more :)
18:35:12gevaertsRecovery mode worked, and installed a new OF and bootloader, but those didn't like the FAT enough to actually do anything (including USB)
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18:36:38gevaertscodesquid: maybe your best bet would be to find another e280 owner and just "borrow" his firmware partition (i.e. dd it to yours). AFAIK that contains the bootloader. Of course, you can stay with pure rockbox...
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18:44:07barrywardellcodesquid: if you can still get into recovery mode, try copying over both a mi4 and bootloader file
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18:59:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:59:44codesquidbarrywardell, you're my hero
18:59:56codesquidcopying the .rom file to the recovery partition did the trick
19:01:15codesquid doesn't tell you to copy the .rom file, only speaks of a .bin file
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19:09:14Davide-NYCAny devs interested in the guts of a Sansa C140?
19:11:26linuxstb_Aren't there already photos on the wiki?
19:11:58Davide-NYCYes, that's the unit in question. Is the unit itself of no value?
19:12:27linuxstb_What do you mean?
19:13:31Davide-NYCI'm willing to send the actual unit to any dev that wants to tinker with it. I presume that if someone wants to work on a port that having the actual hardware is helpful.
19:14:08linuxstb_I could be interested - it looks extremely similar to the Logik Dax I'm (slowly) working on.
19:14:28Davide-NYCsend me your email addy
19:15:36*amiconn is curious whether linuxstb's port completion ratio will ever improve ;)
19:16:01linuxstb_I know it's looking bad...
19:16:21linuxstb_I keep picking targets no-one else has any interest in though...
19:16:56linuxstb_Although I now have a lot of shotofadd's work to adapt.
19:17:16*amiconn also started some single-dev ports ...
19:17:19Davide-NYCFWIW: this thing is pretty chintsy.
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19:18:42crashmatrixevening all
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19:19:01codesquidgevaerts, now that it's working again, I did a fresh install using rbutilqt
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19:19:26*gevaerts waits with bated breath for codesquid's results
19:19:29Davide-NYCThe Sansa Express looks like a much better candidate for a super small player port.
19:19:46crashmatrixMy iPod is acting funky, when I plug it in to charge / sync with my local music repos it won't settle as USB device, instead it re-appears as a new device every half a second or so
19:20:08 Part fiXXXerMet
19:20:34linuxstb_Davide-NYC: That's a brand new CPU though, so a lot more work.
19:20:48gevaertscrashmatrix: is that in the apple firmware or diskmode, or are you using an unofficial build with rockbox usb enabled ?
19:21:38codesquidhmm would it be possible to get edit permissions on the wiki? Then I could update the sansa unbrick page a bit
19:21:53crashmatrixThis would be diskmode, with a rockbox from svn about a month ago
19:21:56gevaertscodesquid: what's your wiki name ?
19:22:10gevaertscrashmatrix: it sounds like it could be caused by a bad cable
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19:22:39gevaertscodesquid: ok. I'll add you to the list
19:22:40crashmatrixgevaerts: I was thinking about that, I've been throwing that thing all over the place
19:22:45crashmatrixcould easily have broken
19:22:46codesquidgevaerts, thx
19:24:37crashmatrixgevaerts: it's the cable alright
19:24:48gevaertscrashmatrix: should be done now. I think I'm supposed to make you promise not to spam ;)
19:25:08gevaertscodesquid: that was for you...
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19:25:15crashmatrixha :p
19:25:27crashmatrixI was like 'what the...' for a moment
19:25:57codesquidgevaerts, not even a tiny bit of spam? We all love Viiiiagaaaaarrrraaaaa!! :P
19:26:06crashmatrixand I've found a position that makes it stable for a bit longer, I can at least update, thanks gevaerts
19:26:17gevaertscrashmatrix: no problem.
19:26:26gevaertscodesquid: not even that ;)
19:26:36*codesquid will eat all the pill himself then
19:27:34*gevaerts looks in his inbox and sees mail that could have been sent by codesquid :)
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19:32:22crashmatrixah crap
19:32:28crashmatrixHD failure :(
19:32:31*crashmatrix sad panda
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20:02:57*linuxstb_ thinks it's probably about time to commit this wps viewports patch
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20:16:27Mouser_X2Anyone using 8680 much? (MOD patch)
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20:16:48Mouser_X2I think there may be a problem with how it handles loops/pattern things.
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20:17:12Mouser_X2(I don't actually make MODs myself, so I have no idea what they're referred to as.)
20:17:40barrywardellIs UMS supposed to be enabled by default on H10 now?
20:17:52gevaertsbarrywardell: no
20:18:07barrywardellI'm getting a drive appearing on my mac...
20:18:24barrywardellthat's with latest svn, no patches
20:19:16gevaertsThere was someone on the forum reporting the same thing.
20:19:16 Quit BobShield (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:19:24linuxstb_A miracle...
20:19:50*gevaerts assumes that the H10 thinks it's about time
20:20:17barrywardellonly full speed is enabled. not high speed
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20:20:23gevaertsbarrywardell: since you're on a mac, I assume that the drive icon appearing means that the drive is actually accessible ?
20:20:38barrywardellyeah, I copied a file over to check
20:21:05barrywardellthe mac reported a device removal most of the way through the copying though (it was a 350MB file)
20:21:24barrywardella drive icon appearing means that it's mounted
20:22:29*gevaerts found a hint
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20:24:19gevaertsIn usb.c, the function try_reboot() does some magic, and then calls system_reboot(). This code was moved there from usb-fw-pp502x.c. For H10, it checks if(button_status()==BUTTON_RIGHT), but I have no idea why.
20:24:37gevaertsbarrywardell: Can you see if it reboots if you connect while holding the right button ?
20:25:16barrywardellit does
20:25:19*gevaerts is expecting some unhappy H10 users when this bug is fixed
20:25:37barrywardellalthough holding right also makes it not go into usb mode
20:25:48barrywardellso I had to time my button press just right!
20:26:29amiconngevaerts: It's on purpose that the H10 requires pressing the right button for reboot
20:26:45barrywardellamiconn: but the behaviour is broken since the last while
20:26:58*gevaerts remembers something about OF and right button
20:27:04barrywardellright now enables charging on H10
20:27:19amiconnThe MTP OF only goes into UMS mode when holding Right at boot
20:27:48amiconnAnd both for the big H10 and the H10 pure, there are only MTP OF versions
20:28:18amiconnOn the small H10 one can choose between MTP and UMS OF
20:28:52gevaertsOK. So I guess the real bug is in usb.h, which defines BUTTON_RIGHT as the one to hold for powered-only mode
20:29:04barrywardellgevaerts: yes
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20:29:29Mouser_X2It would seem that the MOD patch hardlocked my Gigabeat... I hit "next" (since it's not automatically skipping to the next song for MODs for some reason), and now I'm stuck with a black screen (backlight was off), and lit button LEDs...
20:29:50*gevaerts thinks about the best way to solve this
20:30:25linuxstb_Mouser_X2: I expect the patch author would welcome feedback on flyspray...
20:30:27*barrywardell suggests enabling UMS by default on H10
20:30:42amiconngevaerts: Basixally the power-only vs. ums selection on H10 should work inverse to the other targets
20:31:14amiconnbarrywardell: I wouldn't enable it by default before the remaining problem is solved
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20:32:07 Quit amiconn (" bbl")
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20:33:55gevaertsYes. The easiest short-term solution is to add an #ifdef H10/H10_5GB to the if() that switches between power and usb modes, and remove that one from try_reboot() (since that one then becomes redundant, and at that stage we have enabled usb_storage, so not rebooting might be dangerous)
20:36:46 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
20:36:49pixelmaMouser_X: are you trying the new mod patch?
20:36:57 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
20:37:04Mouser_X2pixelma: Yes.
20:38:01Mouser_X2I've been putting a few comments on it here and there. I don't do my own builds (hardware failures), so I haven't been able to test it much until recently.
20:38:08*linuxstb_ commits viewports-in-wps
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20:39:05pixelmaah yes, tried that too and found one file in my collection that froze with an undefined instruction when skipping to it (no freeze when letting it just play but it doesn't play correctly=
20:39:28*pixelma hides
20:39:35Mouser_X2Hmmm. Maybe you should upload that one somewhere so that it can be looked at?
20:40:39pixelmayes, will comment in the tracker and mention it there
20:40:40BigBambilinuxstb: Cool - so we can all get converting now?
20:41:30barrywardellgevaerts: do you want me to test a patch?
20:41:34*gevaerts tries to compose a nice forum post to tell someone that the new feature he likes is going to be disabled again in the next build
20:41:48gevaertsbarrywardell: I'll have one ready in a few minutes.
20:42:03BigBambigevaerts: Evil :)
20:42:16gevaertsBigBambi: what other option is there ?
20:42:28barrywardellwhat's the remaining problem, btw? signal quality?
20:42:46BigBambigevaerts: I agree with you,'twas just a :)
20:42:56barrywardellgevaerts: also, that latest patch in the tracker works fine on my mac
20:43:31barrywardellgevaerts: the blocking version, that is
20:44:08gevaertsbarrywardell: ok. I'll test again on linux, and if that works I'll commit it. After that there is indeed only signal quality left.
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20:45:47barrywardellI wonder would it help to compare the register settings between H10 and other devices?
20:46:09barrywardellsomething like we did in FS #6494
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20:48:36gevaertsbarrywardell: can you try (and look at) gevaerts/h10.diff"> ?
20:49:10codesquidgevaerts, battery voltage has not increased yet using unpatched rockbox
20:50:26barrywardellok, testing
20:50:30gevaertscodesquid: I still don't see how r16611 can affect that unfortunately
20:51:47codesquidI'll try letting it charge through the night and if that doesn't work I'll try r1661 again
20:51:55codesquid*pre r16611
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20:52:50codesquidnote that it only used to charge if booted with cable inserted with the side-effect that things like background image and so were not loaded yet when the USB screen appeared
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20:54:24*linuxstb_ didn't expect those deltas....
20:55:02gevaertscodesquid: ok. So I (or someone else) needs to find out what happens later in the boot sequence that makes charging not work properly
20:55:23*gevaerts didn't expect those deltas either
20:55:24 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:55:46*jhMikeS won't feel so bad with priority inheritance deltas since those are less than that (and green for archos) :)
20:55:54*gevaerts sees that it's not his commit, and sighs with relief
20:56:01barrywardellgevaerts: now I never get a reboot with my H10
20:59:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:59:27gevaertsbarrywardell: any idea what I did wrong ? I don't see it
21:00:55*barrywardell checks
21:02:06linuxstb_The biggest impact is the increased RAM usage - the WPS is now an array of viewports, each of which is an array of lines. Maybe this should be changed to go back to a single list of lines...
21:03:17 Join mcuelenaere [0] (
21:03:31linuxstb_binsize is only about 1000-1400 bytes...
21:04:38gevaertslinuxstb_: as long as amiconn isn't here no-one will complain about those deltas ;)
21:04:38 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:04:50linuxstb_gevaerts: I'm complaining :)
21:05:49linuxstb_But still, let's see what the theme designers can do now...
21:06:55*linuxstb_ has plans for the statusbar that should hopefully reduce binsize
21:06:57Lloreanlinuxstb_: As long as it won't affect the user-visible functionality, I'm not sure that's a decision that needs to be made *now* anyway.
21:07:30jhMikeSquick, only 20 more commits and it will be off the record
21:07:35linuxstb_jhMikeS: ;)
21:07:42*linuxstb_ goes searching flyspray
21:07:52LloreanDoes %V tag implemented belong in MajorChanges?
21:08:01BigBambiI'd say
21:08:03linuxstb_Llorean: Yes, I think so.
21:08:25BigBambiGetting away from line based WPSs is a pretty major change in my book
21:08:43linuxstb_Llorean: True, but if the excessive RAM usage is not dealt with now, it will be forgotten...
21:09:19pixelmayou can't actually use (load) a different font in another viewport yet, or am I missing something?
21:09:34Lloreanlinuxstb_: Probably true. I just meant, there's time to think about whether the "just a list" method will hinder future things before making a decision.
21:10:26linuxstb_pixelma: No, but you can choose the system font if you want... My intention with including that ability now is so that Rockbox won't completely reject unofficial themes making use of the multifont patch - it will just default to the user font.
21:11:36linuxstb_And IMO, the system font can be useful for things like numeric data (track times, playlist position etc)
21:11:44 Join mcuelenaere [0] (
21:11:46barrywardellgevaerts: USB_INSERTED never happens. I always get USB_POWERED when I plug my H10 in
21:12:26 Quit csc` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:12:32codesquiddoes e200tool only run on Linux (or similar) or does it also work on Windows?
21:13:02gevaertsbarrywardell: is your tree up to date ?
21:13:19 Join csc` [0] (n=csc@archlinux/user/csc)
21:13:28barrywardellah, no. not quite. trying again now...
21:14:03linuxstb_codesquid: It _can_ be forced to work on Windows but it's not straightforward, and I only know of 1 person who's reported being able to do it. It's much easier to just use a Linux live CD.
21:14:19codesquidok, I'll write it in the unbrick guide
21:14:56gevaertscodesquid: it also works on mac osx
21:15:53barrywardellgevaerts: things work now. I had reverted to an older svn version to try to find where the H10 UMS mode started
21:16:06barrywardellgevaerts: latest svn with your patch works as it should
21:16:30codesquidgevaerts, I assume it runs on *BSD as well?
21:16:43gevaertscodesquid: no idea
21:16:52codesquidOS X has a BSD core after all
21:16:56gevaertsbarrywardell: Thanks. I'll commit
21:17:22barrywardellcodesquid: I think the main requirement is to have libusb. if your BSD has it then it will likely work
21:17:58codesquidaccording to google, libusb is available on FreeBSD at least
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21:24:08codesquidI'm done updating
21:24:11codesquidany suggestions?
21:26:49 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:28:48codesquidI wonder, is it really possibly to totally brick an e200?
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21:29:37gevaertscodesquid: maybe the e200tool i2c rom write feature can manage that
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21:48:11soapOn the question afruff23 brought up (in a roundabout way) in the forums.
21:49:12 Join hd [0] (n=jd@unaffiliated/helldragon)
21:49:15soapIt is my understanding that it would be impossible to customize the behavior of simply the Gigabeat (F/X) remote's buttons, as they are "mated" to the front panel buttons on a hardware level, and thus not independent switches. Is this correct?
21:49:41 Join mcuelenaere [0] (
21:50:08soapAs in: Swapping Volume Up and Volume Down on the remote could only happen by swapping Volume Up and Volume Down on the player itself.
21:50:26BigBambisoap: I think they are now independent
21:51:06BigBambiThat did used to be the case - a remote button was 'mapped' to a main unit one, so if you changed the functionality of a main unit one, the remote changed to, but no longer
21:51:06 Quit hd (Remote closed the connection)
21:51:07soapIf that is the case - it is good-to-know BigBambi. I guess I'll look at the code.
21:51:19 Join hd [0] (n=jd@unaffiliated/helldragon)
21:51:41BigBambisoap: I think I remember someone (markun I think) changing it, but will have to check myself
21:52:09linuxstb_soap: Looking briefly at the driver, the remote buttons look completely independent to me.
21:52:36soaplalala I can't hear you. No fair you can read it faster than me.
21:52:52linuxstb_I was looking whilst you were chatting to BigBambi...
21:53:13Beta2Kthe remote buttons are seperate defines
21:53:25BigBambiThought so
21:54:13*ender` yawns
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22:00:49 Join rastataper [0] (n=c03e6be7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:01:05rastataperanyone out there?
22:01:41rastataperWonder how many people in here are using the iriver h120
22:01:51*ender` raises hand
22:02:14rastatapercool, i am going to be buying one from ts
22:02:18rastataperdo you still like yours?>
22:02:58LloreanIt's easily one of the Rockbox players most preferred by people who have it and other players.
22:03:20rastataperdo you use for recording or more for listening purposes?
22:03:42rastataperNice. I think I'll like it. its the H120D. Any idea what the D means?
22:04:44 Part pixelma
22:04:47*BigBambi loves his H140
22:05:05 Join mcuelenaere [0] (
22:05:29rastataperwhats the major difference between 140 and 120?
22:05:39BigBambirastataper: Of all my DAPs (4) if I had to chose I'd still have the H140
22:05:50BigBambirastataper: 20 GB or 40 GB hard disk
22:06:14rastataperthats it? Couldn't you just replace the 20 for a 40 on the h140?
22:06:14 Join DataGhost [0] (n=dataghos@unaffiliated/dataghost)
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22:06:25 Quit codesquid (Remote closed the connection)
22:06:50BigBambirastataper: Depends on whether the disk is single or double platter
22:06:58rastataperam i talking with just you, bigbambi
22:07:05BigBambier, right
22:08:27BigBambirastataper: The H120 came with a 5mm single platter HD, and the H140 with a 8mm double platter HD. So you can put any single platter HD (with the same interface, which in reality is a limit of 40 GB if you can find it) in a H120, and any single or double platter HD with the same interface in a H140
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22:09:34rastataperoh, i see. thanks. I'll keep that in mind if i want to upgrade the space.
22:09:59rastataperDo you use your iriver for play back or recording?
22:10:49BigBambirastataper: See
22:11:12 Join codesquid [0] (
22:11:16BigBambirastataper: Mainly playback, but if you want to record the H1x0 is unbeatable (IMO)
22:11:17 Quit codesquid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:11:19ender`i use mine for listening
22:12:24rastataperYeah, I'll be using the 120 for recording. I'm sure 20 gigs will be plenty but never hurts to have more
22:12:56 Join codesquid [0] (
22:13:19LloreanWell as long as you get to your computer once a day, it's pretty hard to fill 20 gigs
22:13:54rastataperbut then you don't have to worry about that
22:14:21rastataperWhat kind of music do you listen to?
22:14:32LloreanThis channel isn't really for that sort of thing.
22:14:39 Join bertrik_ [0] (
22:14:44rastataperOh, okay
22:15:02 Join echelon_ [0] (
22:15:13BigBambirastataper: For OT talk there is #rockbox-community
22:15:21Beta2KCome over to #rockbox-community for such things
22:15:46rastataperYes, dear. I won't ask again.
22:16:13echelon_hi, whenever i plug in my sansa in rockbox mode i get FAT: Directory bread(block 514) failed
22:16:49BigBambiechelon_: Are you using a custom build with the unfinished USB stack enabled?
22:17:05echelon_custom build?
22:17:17BigBambiAre you using an official build, or not?
22:17:43BigBambiThere is nor rockbox USB mode in the official builds, it should reboot to the OF
22:17:45 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:17:49*BigBambi looks at gevaerts
22:17:58*gevaerts hides
22:18:07*BigBambi prods gevaerts with a stick
22:18:18echelon_BigBambi, i just hold down the select button
22:18:30BigBambiAh, so that should charge only I believe
22:18:38echelon_oh, weird
22:18:39BigBambiechelon_: What version of rockbox?
22:18:56BigBambimenu > System > Rockbox info
22:20:39BigBambiechelon_: Please update to a current build
22:21:04BigBambiThat is 4 months old, and many many things have changed since then
22:21:39*gevaerts is relieved. He didn't introduce bugs in that version
22:22:03rastataperHow often is the rockbox software updated?
22:22:07 Quit BigBambi ("Please insert girder")
22:22:14gevaertsrastataper: several times a day
22:22:40rastataperlol, thats pretty hard cord
22:22:48 Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi)
22:23:00BigBambiechelon_: That 1002 versions out of date :)
22:24:15BigBambiAdd an is where appropriate
22:24:55 Quit hd (Client Quit)
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22:25:31echelon_are there separate instructions for upgrading?
22:25:50 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
22:26:52Beta2KDownload the latest from, extract it to your player. :)
22:26:58BigBambiechelon_: Nope, just unzip a new build over the old one
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22:30:26 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
22:32:03amiconnQuite big red delta :\
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22:32:24linuxstb_amiconn: I'm working on it now...
22:32:38*amiconn wonders what all this extra ram is allocated for
22:32:39 Quit pikhq ("Leaveth")
22:33:17echelon_it still shows the old version #
22:33:27linuxstb_amiconn: Read the logs from a couple of hours ago...
22:34:03BigBambiechelon_: What OS, and how did you unzip?
22:34:45echelon_i cd'ed into /media/memory0
22:35:08echelon_then.. unzip -x /tmp/
22:35:50BigBambiechelon_: You may want -o
22:35:59BigBambiYou need to overwrite the old files
22:36:15gevaertsechelon_: are you sure about the -x ?
22:36:36echelon_i said 'A' when i prompted me to replace All
22:36:50amiconnlinuxstb: What are your ideas for the statusbar?
22:37:05*amiconn hopes those ideas might fix the dreaded statusbar delays
22:37:14BigBambi-x is to exclude certain files
22:37:40amiconnThose are quite annoying, as are all the graphical glitches introduced by viewported lists
22:37:49BigBambiechelon_: Try unzip -o /tmp/ -d /media/memory0
22:38:03linuxstb_amiconn: My idea is basically to use the WPS code to display it.
22:38:31gevaertsechelon_: did you unmount properly before unplugging ?
22:38:48echelon_no :\
22:39:17rastataperCna I just in for a min
22:39:38*amiconn has no idea how a themable statusbar can be made as useful as the hardcoded one
22:39:41linuxstb_amiconn: It's something I want to experiment with to see what's possible, I'm not suggesting (yet...) that it's a good idea.
22:39:52Lloreanamiconn: Do you know, does the official X5 bootloader dual boot? I thought there was a patch that didn't use any of the OF info to do it, finally.
22:40:14amiconnLlorean: The current iaudio bootloaders don't support dual boot
22:40:37Lloreanamiconn: I don't think you could improve usefulness with themeing it. I *do* think that a very large percentage of our users wouldn't mind a less useful, more visually appealing one. The same group that regularly just turns it off right now.
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22:40:43amiconnThere is a patch, but I just know it exists. Never checked it
22:40:49 Quit Rincewind ("bye")
22:41:05rastataperwithout actually reading the site, is it very difficult to install the software for iriver
22:41:14BigBambirastataper: Right
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22:41:34BigBambirastataper: It is an involved process, nothing we can do about that. That is why the manual exists
22:41:44amiconnLlorean: My fear is that with a themable statusbar we'll actually *give uP* functionality. Functionality that I do like and use.
22:42:14BigBambiI like the info on the statusbar, but it looks ugly, and is too small for me
22:42:36Lloreanamiconn: If it's themable, how would that cost us functionality?
22:42:36BigBambii.e. I want to be able to have volume, battery etc. in the menus, but in a more attractive way
22:42:46amiconnLike, how could a themable battery icon be implemented that offers the same fine-grained resolution as the current one? Same goes for the volume indicator - one of the reasons why my wps'es *always* use the standard statusbar
22:43:00*Llorean imagines many users with poor sight wouldn't mind a two-line status bar containing much larger versions of the info
22:43:08Lloreanamiconn: Bitmap strips.
22:43:17echelon_it worked! thanks :)
22:43:29Lloreanamiconn: The battery and colume icons could work almost exactly like the progress bar in WPS works.
22:43:39LloreanReveal X% of the bitmap, where that's how much % of volume/battery
22:43:41echelon_the battery charging indicator works now?
22:43:54gevaertsechelon_: you should also have much better battery life now
22:43:55amiconnThe statusbar volume & battery icons have ~15 steps. I don't want to end up with a rockbox version that takes longer than the average OF to boot because it has to load hundreds of bitmaps
22:44:04Lloreanamiconn: One bitmap.
22:44:09echelon_nice :)
22:44:26Lloreanamiconn: Look at how the custom progress bars work in the wps. You load a single bitmap, and it only displays a portion of it, based on how much of the song has progressed.
22:44:42LloreanWhen at 100%, then 100% of the image is displayed.
22:44:51amiconnLlorean: Hmm, and what about the battery "frame"? The charging animation, including current level display? (the black vs grey filling system)
22:44:53LloreanOtherwise the image is just clipped to a length equivalent to progress.
22:45:07echelon_so i can't mount while in rockbox?
22:45:14Lloreanamiconn: With the battery you then have to display a few more images, sure.
22:45:23echelon_i could've sworn i could do this while in windows
22:45:28linuxstb_amiconn: The other thing I want to do with WPSs is bitmap strips for icons
22:45:46LloreanBut again, people who want it themed suffer a slightly longer load. I certainly think unthemed status bar should remain in code for you and me though. :-P
22:45:56BigBambiechelon_: No, not yet (with portalplayer targets)
22:46:09BigBambiIt should auto reboot to the OF for USB for the moment
22:46:24gevaertsechelon_: It should reboot to the sandisk firmware. We're working on getting native rockbox usb support, but it's still a work in progress
22:46:37BigBambiBut gevaerts is slaving away on native Rockbox USB support, so if we all buy him beer, who knows :P
22:46:37echelon_ok, it's fine i guess
22:47:42gevaertsBigBambi: I can't code when drunk
22:47:51amiconnLlorean: On H300 I would actually like a slightly larger version of the statusbar, but at the same time I really don't want to sacrifice boot time and UI responsiveness
22:48:17*linuxstb_ notices the standard statusbar battery icon is drawn with drawrect, drawline etc, so could at least be scaled and the colours changed
22:48:57amiconnYes it is drawn this way, and volume is drawn using vline
22:49:10*Llorean would really like to see any WPS tag that can return a percentage also capable of drawing a horizontal or vertical percentage of a bitmap.
22:50:09linuxstb_Maybe we could just add tags for the WPS that draw (at a specified height/width etc) the standard battery/volume indicators.
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22:50:42LloreanVector graphics in the WPS! *gasps* :-P
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22:53:03amiconnProvided we find a way to stop the number of bitmaps from exploding, it might be useful to make the tag system a little more generic
22:53:18amiconn...and later reuse it for other screens, like e.g. radio
22:53:46amiconnCurrently I'm totally undecided whether that's a good or bad idea
22:54:16linuxstb_You mean whether a customisable radio screen is a good idea?
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22:55:13amiconnAll the latest UI 'enhacements' brought an ever increasing slowness and bugginess, and nobody seems to be working on fixing that mess :/
22:59:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:01:36amiconnlinuxstb_: On a different matter - do you think that posting a 1st Gen test bootloader makes sense? Or would it be better to post an ipodpatcher with integrated bootloaders?
23:03:19linuxstb_I think a bootloader will be enough - the people testing seem clueful enough.
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23:45:12kugellinuxstb, JdGordon|afk : as a multifont solution, what do you think of my idea of having the wps fonts defined in the .wps file instead of in the global config (the way the multifont patch does it now)?
23:45:53LloreanWhy reduce flexibility that way?
23:46:23kugelI don't see how it reduces flexibilty
23:46:38LloreanYou have to define fonts twice if you want to use them both in the WPS and out of it.
23:47:02kugelusing the fonts out of it?
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23:47:14LloreanThere's an awful lot of non-WPS text in Rockbox...
23:47:23kugelgiven that only one font is used in the menues
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23:47:36LloreanOnly one font is used in the WPS right now too
23:47:49LloreanMenu headers could use a different font from menu entries. The status bar could use a third for numbers.
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23:48:11LloreanThe main menu could use a different font than the filetree to highlight the change in contexts.
23:48:15LloreanThere's a lot you could do with multifont.
23:48:59kugeldefining fonts twice isn't what I call reduced flexibility
23:49:04LloreanStoring the fonts globally means you can easily define things such as "Headers in the WPS should use the menu header" and "Numbers in the WPS use the same number font as the status bar" meaning themes can allow people to pick and choose fonts while maintaining a consistent look.
23:49:14Lloreankugel: It _requires_ they be defined twice, even when there's no reason to.
23:49:42kugelmenu headers is indeed a good point
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23:50:04LloreanAt the same time, it requires a system be in place to identify when a font is used in and out of the WPS so that the font isn't loaded more than once.
23:50:13LloreanIt makes more sense to define all the fonts in one place, and one list.
23:50:29kugelhowever, having different fonts in the menues and the filetree doesn't make sense to me (i.e. I have no idea why one would want that), that's why the multifont patch dropped that
23:50:54LloreanPeople mistakenly think that "Files" is a menu. This would offer visual differentiation.
23:51:09kugelI know about that difference
23:51:12LloreanReduce user confusion by showing a clear change of context.
23:51:20linuxstbI would like that - my filenames are generally quite long, and menu options quite short.
23:51:27kugelbut I still wouldn't want different fonts in those both contexts
23:51:40Lloreankugel: But YOU don't have to use it.
23:51:54linuxstbSo when I have a small enough font to see the filetree clearly, the menus just take a small corner of the screen... (on my GB)
23:51:55LloreanThat doesn't mean you should make it harder for other people to, while at the same time complicating the font process.
23:52:04kugelanyway, you have some good points against my idea
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23:53:03LloreanIt could even be as simple as using a Bold version for the menus, and a non-Bold for the filetree.
23:53:56kugelI just think it's more logical to have it in the wps
23:54:11LloreanThere's always going to be at least one menu font.
23:54:15LloreanWhy put the fonts in different places?
23:54:28kugelfonts in the wps should go in the wps file, just like bitmaps and tags and stuff
23:54:33linuxstbkugel: Rockbox theming is about far more than the wps now (or at least, should be)
23:55:00kugellinuxstb: I'm aware of that
23:55:06linuxstbIf anything, bitmaps could be moved out of the WPS, and used elsewhere...
23:56:21kugelFor the case that the font is used allready in the menu, the loading could be aborted using an if or something. I just think it's easier for the user that he defines the font he wants to use in his wps in the wps file
23:56:30kugelanyway, I got to go now. See you
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23:56:43DefineByteit seems analogous to html and external style sheets to me. :)
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23:57:19linuxstbAlso, "easier for the user" isn't the only consideration - we want it easy for Rockbox....
23:58:07BigBambiI don't see how it easier for the user
23:58:20BigBambidefine the fonts in a .wps or a .cfg, you stil have to do it
23:58:44DefineByteAre you a simple 'user' if you're creating themes?

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