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#rockbox log for 2008-03-24

00:00:00*Llorean has already turned down one applicant, arguably.
00:00:08gevaertsaustrian_guest: it seems to work on H320. It jumps about a bit too much to my taste, but with some patience I could probably tune this homebuilt thing of mine
00:00:54gevaertsaustrian_guest: no luck on c250, probably because of the fixed sample rate of 44100 Hz
00:01:08 Quit TsubakiIke ("CGI:IRC")
00:02:52austrian_guestgood to hear it works on the h320
00:03:30austrian_guestIf i figure out how to alter the recording samplerate, it will probably work on the sansas too
00:05:10*gevaerts would try on gigabeat f, but probably the lack of recording hardware might cause problems
00:05:26linuxstbgevaerts: Probably...
00:05:48gevaertsJust wait for usb host with audio support :)
00:06:47austrian_guestLine in could also work
00:08:45austrian_guestWhat recording samplerate do the sansas support?
00:11:29gevaertsaustrian_guest: the recording preferences on my c200 lets me choose 22050 Hz
00:19:00LloreanCan the Gigabeat F host through the normal USB port, or would a dock adapter be needed?
00:19:02 Quit PaulJam_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:19:32gevaertsLlorean: it needs the dock
00:19:43austrian_guestgevaerts: Could you please try this on your c200:
00:19:57austrian_guestit should use the correct buttons and samplerate..
00:20:17Lloreangevaerts: The actual dock, or just an adapter with the right pins on the connector?
00:21:26gevaertsLlorean: I think it needs the dock's power supply for the 5V VBus. If you manage to provide those on an adapter it should work as well. The actual USB data lines are in the dock connector
00:23:13gevaertsaustrian_guest: Undefined instruction at 0006e9b4
00:23:43linuxstbAnyone think bitmap strips in the WPS is a MajorChange?
00:23:43 Quit nls_web ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:23:52*gevaerts thinks that plugin writers should really define their instructions properly
00:24:05Lloreanlinuxstb: I think all new "features" are.
00:24:10gevaertslinuxstb: depends. Is wps authoring a major use case ? If so, yes
00:24:12austrian_guestIn what way?
00:24:24*gevaerts should have added a smiley
00:24:36shotofaddslinuxstb: if I were a wps author I'd want to know about that change, but what do i know ;)
00:24:46*linuxstb takes that as a yes, and adds it
00:24:50austrian_guestI'm waaayyy too tired...
00:25:11gevaertsaustrian_guest: there probably is some memory corruption somewhere
00:25:29linuxstbWhen was the M3 added as a supported target?
00:25:39linuxstb(that's missing from MajorChanges)
00:25:50Bagdertoday uh, yday
00:25:56*gevaerts is too tired to do any reasonable debugging, so he won't even try. This jigsaw puzzle however...
00:26:02*Bagder noticed we're passed midnight here
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00:27:26linuxstbBagder: So 23rd March?
00:27:28austrian_guestThere's no memory corruption on my X5. I'm too tired now - good night everyone. Thank you all for helping me!
00:27:33Bagderlinuxstb: yes
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00:40:07pickylinuxstb: ping
00:41:05pickylinuxstb: is the 'i' parameter optional in the %xdni WPS tag?
00:41:33pickylinuxstb: it's not in brackets on the wiki page
00:41:34linuxstbI should put [] around it...
00:41:49linuxstbI'll fix that now.
00:42:14BigBambiBagder: On the current build page, should it not say Gigabeat F/X and not just Gigabeat F? (Like iriver H120/H140 for instance)
00:42:37BigBambilikewise for the manual page
00:42:37Bagderi guess it should...
00:42:52Bagderbut now I'm off to sleep...
00:43:33linuxstbpicky: OK, done. Thanks for pointing it out.
00:45:42pickylinuxstb: ok. I like how it reduced the number of the images needed
00:48:11linuxstbYes, it's a long-overdue feature IMO.
00:48:14pickylinuxstb: another question: what if the image height isn't exactly a multiple of the number of images in the tag?
00:48:56pickyAnd what if the i parameter will shoot over the last strip?
00:50:07linuxstbThat's two questions...
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00:51:26pickyI'll try to deduce the answers from the code. In code veritas! :-)
00:51:48linuxstbThere is currently no check for either. For the first case, the "extra" pixels at the bottom will just be ignored. For the second, I should add a safety check...
00:52:36linuxstbAlthough it's not really dangerous.
00:52:59domonok1linuxstb: a check would be good, or else a wps could possibly crash rockbox, not nice..
00:53:23linuxstbdomonok1: How would it crash? It would just copy some random data to the screen.
00:53:34pickylinuxstb: there are also tabs in wps_parser.c:1385
00:54:02linuxstbpicky: Thanks, I'll fix them.
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00:56:46pickylinuxstb: I also think a check would be better than some random data on the screen. Uncontrolled access, even just reading, is bad imho.
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00:59:22linuxstbpicky: I agree - I'm fixing it now ;)
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01:03:39linuxstbFix committed.
01:04:28linuxstbpicky: Anything else? ;)
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01:08:35pickylinuxstb: not now. Relax ;-)
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01:30:38pickylinuxstb: still here?
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01:31:22pickylinuxstb: could you put everything you put to the wiki page to the manual as well?
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01:41:51JdGordon|zzzamiconn: RED!
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01:46:04*linuxstb is impressed JdGordon|zzz can spot red in his sleep
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01:49:29JdGordonmultifont patch peope are getting on my nerves again :p
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01:51:46JdGordonlinuxstb: (I hadnt seen your patch before commiting), isnt there a nicer way to use strip bmps so you could just do something like %?pv<%xdM> and it would automaticlaly display the correct part (assuming the image was setup for strips correctly?)
01:52:10JdGordon.. that line in the commit messgae looks horrible...
01:55:07*jhMikeS wonders about naming consistency when "grey_..._gray_bitmap..." is used ;)
01:55:53*amiconn wonders why he wrote || when he meant &&
01:56:09*gevaerts wonders about why grey and gray are both valid and correct words
01:56:32linuxstbJdGordon: That was my original idea, but a) I didn't know how to do it (but see my discussions about it with Nico_P in the logs); and b) Specifying sub-images individually is useful when you want to use the same strip in more than one conditional. So I think both methods would be nice.
01:57:50 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
01:58:30JdGordonanyway, nice work.. should make wps' slightly easier to manage
01:58:32JdGordonfile wise
01:59:15amiconnjhMikeS: I didn't touch those in this commit. It's historical, as the graphics api description specifies *_gray_bitmap* for functions dealing with such bitmaps, and the library prefix for the greyscale lib is grey_
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02:10:38aliaskI've got an mp3 that consistently plays the first ~0.1s then skips (and often confuses the playback engine). What sort of things should I be doing to help debug?
02:13:54aliaskI end up getting the wrong information on the WPS, and on occasion I think i've had it skip into the middle of another song.
02:14:10linuxstbIs your filesystem OK?
02:14:53aliaskfsck seems to have no problems with it.
02:15:07jhMikeSsounds like the playback engine doesn't enforce file boundaries or something
02:15:26aliaskThough this is a iPod 4G grey with a mini hard drive in it
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02:23:58aliaskHrm, actually a surface scan is actually brining up some bad clusters. I'll get them fixed and see if that resolves the issue
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02:54:03saratoga11111FS #8686 has a lot of TI specific code that should probably go into SVN
02:54:26saratoga11111in particular, some of the patches there do things like fill in blank function stubs
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02:55:19saratoga11111since the Creative ZVM port is well along, these should probably be looked at by someone with SVN access
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09:53:04amiconnlinuxstb: ping
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10:05:33linuxstbamiconn: Good morning
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10:09:41amiconnlinuxstb: Morning. I compared the cabbie v2 (old) and cabbiev2 (new) loading times on my H340 with the plain wps
10:10:21amiconnWith the new version I can't measure a difference in boot time to the plain wps. Old cabbiev2 was ~1.5 sec slower
10:11:22amiconnI also got the "frozen gui when resuming on startup" effect several times during my tests
10:11:34amiconnHappened more often with the old version than the new one
10:12:07amiconnIt almost seems like the buffering code "forgets" to yield completely under certain conditions
10:13:14*amiconn still won't use cabbiev2 because of readability
10:13:42*Mouser_X uses Pixel, a Gigabeat WPS.
10:13:44amiconnIf there were a nice theme with clean icons and dark-text-on-white, I would probably use it...
10:14:08*amiconn can't stand bright text on black
10:14:10linuxstbThat's good news. I guess I can close the "wps tar file" task now then.
10:14:22amiconnYes I think so
10:14:44Mouser_XPixel needs fixing to be used on current builds though. Broken WPS tags or something.
10:14:57Mouser_X(I've fixed it for my use.)
10:17:02*amiconn uses one of 3 text-only wps'es (but with peakmeters), default colours except a solid rockbox-orange selector bar (on colour targets). Fonts vary with target, either rockfont-8 (archos), or a nimbus variant
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10:31:08Casainhohello Rockbox people :-9
10:33:54CasainhoI have some questions: If I have a system with an ARM, the SDRAM is directed accessed? It starts from 0x00000000 until end?
10:34:58JdGordonyes and depends where its mapped to
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10:35:42linuxstb__Casainho: Normally something else (ROM, NOR Flash) is mapped to 0x0 on boot.
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10:37:25Casainhoso, how rockbox knows what memories are mapped, it's start and end?
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10:38:52Casainhomy system will have SDRAM 64MB and 512 MB NAND FLASH
10:39:01linuxstb_That's hard-coded, depending on the hardware configuration.
10:39:49Casainhohmmm... - since I know, the bootloader will mapped it, I already have an example of bootloader to use
10:39:54linuxstb_Does your CPU have any SRAM (fast internal memory)?
10:40:06Casainhoyes, 4KB of SRAM
10:40:38linuxstb_Then that needs to be mapped somewhere as well.
10:41:45CasainhoI assume the the bootloader will do that, in this case, It will be the u-boot. But, how rockbox code will know here starts and ends externl SRAM?
10:42:13linuxstb_pixelma: Good morning. How is your cabbiev2 work going? I'm slowly converting them to bitmap strips, but don't want to change anything you're working on...
10:43:07pixelmaput new greyscale versions in the tracker yesterday evening (decided I'm done for myself but would like some comments)
10:43:17pixelmamorning too, btw. :)
10:45:22linuxstb_pixelma: OK, so I'll leave those two WPSs for now.
10:46:10 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (
10:48:03pixelmalinuxstb: also, I like the addressing each part of the bitmap strip on its own. E.g. in the Archos cabbiev2 I put two images into the "background" to reduce the number of images to load (that is the empty battery and the play icon), IIUC they could be left out in the bitmap strip too, right?
10:49:26pixelmawill convert the two greyscale WPSs then
10:51:18linuxstb_Yes, I think they probably could. Although maybe it's nicer to include all the icons in the strip - so they are all together.
10:52:20pixelmayes, it's also not so important anymore, now that it is only one bitmap now anyways...
10:53:31linuxstb_This is hard work though - I didn't realise we now have 10 different LCDs...
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10:55:04amiconnSomehow cabbiev2 doesn't look right at all on M3..
10:56:14amiconnThere's no backdrop, wps layout is broken, and wps has no icons
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10:56:57pixelmathe Iaudio remote WPS (which is used) of cabbiev2 has no icons but should have a backdrop
10:57:12amiconnWhy doesn't it have icons?
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10:58:04pickylinuxstb: ping
10:58:10pixelma space problem, I'd say
10:58:51pixelma(and no one did small enough greyscale icons)
10:59:38pixelmamaybe we could drop the "now playing bar" in favour of the "status bar" there, it became more important now
11:00:15amiconnWell, for a remote on a target with a main lcd it might be okay. But no icons on a target with just one display is no good, imo
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11:00:38amiconnIn fact the layout seems to be ok, but the theme doesn't load the correct font
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11:01:00amiconn(had nimbus-12 here which is far more readable than this skinny one anyway)
11:01:05*pixelma should check whether this one empty line on the screenshot could be used
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11:02:39pixelmaand I even think that the other greyscale icons could be used (there is enough space in the status bar of the Mini version I did yesterday)
11:04:53pickylinuxstb: (for the log) One more idea about more checks in the wps: if num_subimages was specified in %X, check that an index was specified in all %d that refer to that image.
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11:11:10linuxstbpicky: I don't think that's needed - if you don't specify a subimage to display, Rockbox will default to displaying the first image. Similarly, if you don't specify a number of subimages with %xl, it defaults to 1 subimage
11:18:14pickylinuxstb: yes, I also thought that. But on the other hand, this would ensure more consice usage of num_images and make an accidental slip through more unlikely
11:20:05bertrikWhen I submit a patch/bug to the tracker I can select the type of player, but when searching in bugs I cannot. Am I overlooking something?
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12:03:59bertrikI noticed that quite a lot of bugs show some info like "data abort at x" or "undefined instruction at x". Can't we find out more about this using x?
12:04:35bertrikI played around a bit with arm-elf-addr2line and I can get the function name, but not the file name and line number.
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12:06:43bertrikit always shows libgcc2.c:0 for the file name and line number
12:07:07pixelmayou can find out more with the help of the .map files that are in your build dir (if you compiled yourself) - but I now nothing about the "howto"
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12:09:24bertrikyes I know about the map file, it doesn't give much more information than addr2line
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12:25:12mooslinuxstb: congrates for your WPS works, and for your new device ;)
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12:32:14tywickraGuys .. any updates on iPod Classic ? any good news coming our way ?
12:32:56Horschtis anyone actualy working on it? I doubt that
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12:33:05tywickraoh i see
12:33:32tywickrabut how about the battery consumption on 5th gen iPods?
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12:33:44tywickrahow many hours approximately ?
12:33:51Horschthas gotten better, I once reached 17h
12:34:07Horschtaverage would be 15 - 16 hours, I assume
12:34:11tywickraHorscht, wow .. awesome !!
12:34:21Horscht(5.5G 80GB
12:34:47tywickranow i feel like going backwards.. finding a 5th gen 80 gig
12:35:40Mouser_XOr you could get a Gigabeat.
12:36:10tywickraMouser_X, can you get me a link if you don't mind ?
12:36:13Mouser_XThe Gigabeat F can be a reasonable price if you look around for it.
12:36:34Mouser_XI *do* mind. Mostly because I shouldn't be here anyway... I'm writing an essay.
12:36:57Mouser_XI've got a Gigabeat, and I love it.
12:37:20Horschthere in germany it was close to impossible to find a Gigaeat
12:37:29tywickrathe biggest issue i have with ipod is the absence of good customisable graphical EQ
12:37:35Horschtgerman ebay does not give a single result
12:38:16XannaxHello; something is bugging me, and I have seached extensively in the faq and manual, and I am sorry if what I am asking has been asnwered: my question is: in my ipod/notes/ipodloader.conf, what do I set as rockbox path? Whatever I enter it says err: cannot find file. I am under winXP ipod is FAT32, I installed the loader from ipodlinux but not ipodlinux, only rockbox and regular ipod firmware. Thanks in advance
12:38:45 Quit jcollie ("Ex-Chat")
12:38:49markunHorscht: I think they were only sold in Japan, Australia, USA and UK
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12:39:12Horschtthat explains why I had to settle for an Ipod
12:39:56XannaxI know it is not a rockbox-related issue, but I thought this should be the best place to get advice
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12:40:07HorschtXannax, the ipod linux wiki has information on that
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12:40:45handmademattersAny idea why i am getting this message at the very first start of compiling:
12:41:08HorschtXannax: Rockbox @ (hd0,1)/.rockbox/rockbox.ipod
12:41:17tywickramarkun, good point .. it's available in AU :)
12:41:29handmademattersgcc -DAPPLICATION NAME ="bmp2rb" -g bmp2rb.c -0... No rule to make tgarget
12:42:50handmademattersThats the full failure message: gcc -DAPPLICATION_NAME=\"bmp2rb\" -g bmp2rb.c -o bmp2rb
12:42:50handmademattersmake[1]: *** No rule to make target `iaudio_bl_flash.bmp', needed by `iaudio_bl_flash.h'. Stop.
12:43:22XannaxHorscht: yes and i did everything listed the discussion page, someone suggests entering the filename in dos8char format (rockbo~1.ipo) but that doesn't work either. I just can't get it to find my .rockbox folder, i tried absolute and relative paths, full-characters or 8
12:44:07HorschtXannax, sorry can't help you there. That entry worked for me when I was using loader2, but I stopped using it anyways
12:45:06XannaxHorscht: no, I tried that. Maybe because my conf is in "/notes/" and thus the path is not found? but when I move the conf file to the root, it is not loaded at all
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12:47:01Mouser_Xtywickra: If you're in Australia, then try to find a Gigabeat X. It might be more expensive than the Gigabeat F, but it will be cheaper to buy a new/larger hard drive for the X, than it would be for the X.
12:47:21Mouser_XAlso, the screen is slightly larger on the X (same resolution, but slightly larger in size).
12:48:42tywickraMouser_X, true .. i need a device where i can put most of my stuff i have all my music at 320kbps .. do you have any idea on the capacity ?
12:48:44Mouser_XThe Gigabeat F uses a 50-pin HDD connector, and the X uses a Zif-connector (or Zif-something?). Zif connectors are newer, so there's more of them available.
12:49:09tywickraaha .. i got your point
12:49:23Xannaxhm. Thanks anyway. One last question: is there another way to switch between regular ipod firmware and rockbox?
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12:50:00Mouser_X50-pin is available in 40-80 GB drives. However, the 80 GB are *very* expensive. Zif drives can be found in larger capacities for cheaper, but I don't know sizes, or how much they cost.
12:50:42Mouser_Xtywickra: I heard the X was sold in Australia, so I assume it would be easier to find (and cheaper?) than in the US.
12:52:06tywickraMouser_X, aha.. it seems like time has come for me to move on to Gigabeat :-)
12:53:12HorschtXannax, no
12:53:24Horschtpressing center button and menu
12:53:40Horschtto return from OF to Rockbox
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13:00:18Mouser_Xtywickra: Good luck. Hopefully I haven't sent you on a "wild goose chase." Since I'm not in Australia, I've never bothered looking for a Gigabeat X. Depending on the situation, you might be better off (for the price) with an iPod. *Personally* I would say the price difference is worth it (up to a point, of course). The Gigabeat has a faster CPU, and can therefore do certain things that the iPod can't do (not to mention the fact that you won't
13:00:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:01:48Mouser_XThe Gigabeat F comes as a Gigabeat F40 and F60 (40 GB and 60 GB respecively). There's smaller units, but I figure you don't care about them.
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13:01:57Mouser_XI don't know the sizes of the X units.
13:04:41tywickraMouser_X, yeah true .. my main concern is quality sounds .. which has compromised by ipod bitterly
13:04:55aliaskThe X is hard to find even in Australia
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13:05:16aliaskYou can occasionally find them on eBay, but they're reasonably rare, and often more expensive.
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13:05:39tywickrain fact .. i was in NY last week.. was trying to find an alternative for an ipod ..
13:05:54tywickrai saw a few devices but didn't get the capacity in place
13:06:33Mouser_XIf 60 GB will be sufficient, 50-pin 60 GB drives aren't too badly priced.
13:06:59tywickrayeah .. 60 GB will be ok with me ..
13:07:06Mouser_XYou could buy a Gigabeat F40 (you need the larger back piece), and put a 60 GB drive in it.
13:07:23tywickrai'm not using it for anything other than for music ie no pics or movies
13:07:26Mouser_XThat is, if you'd prefer a Gigabeat over an iPod.
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13:08:32tywickrayeah it sounds interesting .. should have an eye and probably get hold of one in a couple of days time
13:08:45Mouser_XPersonally, I really like my Gigabeat. However, if you're not going to do movies, you might be able to find something that's better suited to your needs. However, such a product might be rare (I have no idea).
13:09:07Mouser_XBecause of the fast CPU, the Gigabeat is great for movies.
13:09:30Mouser_XBut if you can find something of a larger capacity for cheaper, you might want that instead.
13:09:47linuxstbamiconn: A few of your recent commits haven't updated the required FILES - the bmp file in tools/ the m3 target-tree...
13:10:13*amiconn always forgets about FILES
13:10:33*aliask only noticed the /tools one and was about to commit.
13:10:44amiconn...because I always use SVN...
13:10:45linuxstbamiconn: You're not alone...
13:11:30amiconnActually, I wonder why we have FILES. Couldn't we just put everything from SVN into the tarball?
13:12:11*Nico_P has been asking himself the same question
13:12:34linuxstbBagder seems to not want that, but I forget his reasons...
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13:14:32*amiconn pings Bagder
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13:32:59tywickraMouser_X, sorry was away .. thanks a bunch for your valued thoughts and suggested .. that truly helped me :)
13:33:12*JdGordon is itching to do some coding... needs some kicking in a direction
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13:33:49Inv1s1bleI just want to say....I love RockBox. It's awesome. I can play OGGs and MP3s and keep my current folder structure and not have to use GtkPod or worse: iTunes
13:34:39Xezzycan rockbox read ape tags?
13:34:42moosJdGordon: the playlist area, like you mentionned few days ago...?
13:34:44Xezzyi heard its possible
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13:35:10moosXezzy: not for mp3
13:35:30mooswe use id3 tags
13:35:32pixelmaJdGordon: maybe you could have a look why in some plugin menus (that don't use own bitmaps etc.) the statusbar looks inverted
13:35:43Xezzynot in a lifetime?
13:35:56JdGordonpixelma: which?
13:35:57amiconnThis is a design decision
13:36:12amiconnThe tagging format for MP3 is id3v1 or id3v2, and not ape
13:36:13pixelmaJdGordon: e.g. star (even on greyscale)
13:36:35JdGordonok, having a look
13:37:16Xezzyso which fileformats are supported with ape?
13:37:17pixelmaJdGordon: there are some others as well, but haven't made a list...
13:37:26*Mouser_X agrees with Inv1s1ble. Rockbox == great! He especially likes that it can play ADX, NSF, SPC, MOD (with a patch) and GBS (again with a patch) files!
13:37:48*JdGordon loves having non existsnat lists of bugs to fix :p
13:37:58moosXezzy: what do you mean? we use for exemple ape tags for musepack codec
13:38:25Xezzyyes thats what i mean ^^
13:39:20JdGordonstatusbar is fine in the e200 sim and all plugins ive checked so far
13:39:28JdGordonwhich target speicifically?
13:39:49pixelmaJdGordon: seen in some plugins on M5 and c200
13:39:57amiconnThe problem is that in plugins which specify their own colours, the statusbar adheres to those, while the menus don't
13:40:33amiconnThe menus use what is set in global_settings, and that's wrong in plugins
13:40:39JdGordonhow are they setting the colours?
13:40:56 Quit midgey ()
13:41:21amiconnThe menu code itself should copy whatever its parent viewport contains
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13:41:35pixelmaJdGordon: on c200, chopper also show the problem (which had a black on white menu IIRC)
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13:42:09amiconnThe core menu screens (which are "above" the generic menu code) should set the colours as necessary
13:42:10JdGordon1) plugins shouldnt be changing menu colours...
13:42:25pixelmaah... the statusbar is black on white, the rest is white on black (because this is what I use in the global settings, IIUC amiconn correctly)
13:42:38amiconnPlugins are perfectly allowed to change the colours
13:42:46JdGordonthey shouldnt though
13:42:54JdGordonthey shouldnt need to in menus
13:42:56amiconnAnd if they are then using menus, the menus should adapt to their look
13:43:03linuxstbIMO they can - to implement their own style
13:43:07amiconn...not vice versa
13:43:18pixelmaand they did before
13:44:32amiconnThat is the problem here - star sets white on black, which is perfectly ok in case of star, as the main playing screen uses a dark background, and the menus should adapt because that avoids continuos switching back and forth
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13:45:12*JdGordon thinking of the least hackish fix for this
13:45:22linuxstbIn my mind, the part of Rockbox that calls a menu should be able to specify the parent viewport for that particular menu
13:45:34JdGordonit does
13:45:39JdGordonnothing does that yet though
13:45:42amiconnWhat I just said - the menu code itself shouldn't touch the colours. Only the up-level code in the core that calls them should
13:46:44pixelmaJdGordon: try wormlet, it looks like it's using black on rockboxblue or some other bright but not white colour
13:47:01JdGordonits ok... I see the problem
13:47:10JdGordonrb->lcd_set_background( LCD_BLACK );
13:47:19JdGordonwhich also happens to be the default theme colour
13:48:00amiconnYou mean the cabbiev2 theme colour ;)
13:48:12JdGordonyes.. thats the default
13:49:30markunwhich of our DAPs has the least amount of buttons?
13:49:44amiconnDepends on how you're counting
13:49:48markunThe Meizu M3 has just 3 and a vertical touch strip
13:49:57markunis that similar to the H10?
13:50:11amiconnCounting *only* buttons, then it's the ipods
13:50:32amiconnBut counting buttons + other inputs like a wheel, then it's the Ondio
13:50:37linuxstbIIUC, the D2 only has 3 buttons, plus the touchscreen...
13:50:53amiconnipods have 5 buttons plus wheel. Ondio has 6 buttons
13:50:58JdGordonthe mr500 only has 1 on the actual DAP
13:51:14JdGordon7 or 8 on the remote though
13:51:38markunthe reason I asked is becasue I have no clue how to navigate in rockbox with just 3 buttons and a touchstrip
13:51:44*JdGordon wishes eigima would get his DSP code into svn
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13:52:21JdGordonmarkun: you'll figure it out :D or break the thing trying
13:52:54linuxstbmarkun: Maybe just have "down", "select" and "back"
13:53:59markunthe strip could be used for up, select and down
13:54:34amiconnThen you have 6 "buttons", which should be ok
13:54:36markunmenu for menu, play for play and stop, the '<>' button for back?
13:54:58markunon the M6 the control will also be less than ideal
13:55:14amiconnYou have to come up with a consistent scheme for the various screens, but that's usually not too difficult
13:55:46amiconnIt depends a bit on the possible button combos though
13:55:54pixelmaif you have 6 buttons, maybe you could have a look at the Ondio buttonmap for inspiration. I find it quite intuitive
13:57:06markunthanks, I will
13:57:15Xezzywhat info from id3v2 rockbox CANT read?
14:00:34linuxstbXezzy: Best to ask the opposite question...
14:01:38linuxstbSee the "taglist" definition in this file -
14:02:07*JdGordon wants to start forcing screens using the widgets to supply a viewport
14:02:20JdGordonbad idea?
14:02:36linuxstbThat's what I've thought should happen all along.
14:02:49JdGordonit needs to happen eventually
14:02:57amiconnThe widgets should imo just use the current viewport
14:03:28amiconnThe screens are then responsible for setting the correct viewport
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14:04:01JdGordonexcept there is no way to get the current viewport is there?
14:04:05JdGordonand should there be then?
14:04:09Xezzyso txxx is used only for replaygain?
14:04:11CasainhoBagder: heelo :-)
14:04:12linuxstbI agree - it depends how you think about widgets/screens - most of our widgets are full-screen...
14:04:27JdGordonstatusbar isnt, BB isnt
14:04:34JdGordonmenu doesnt need to be
14:05:01CasainhoBagder: can you please tell me how rockbox code will know here will be mapped the flash memory and SDRAM?
14:05:33JdGordon*.lds I think...
14:06:24 Join thegeek_ [0] (
14:06:27JdGordonhaving the widgets take the current viewport isnt corrent.... we dont want a full screen statusbar and list
14:07:04amiconnSure the list widget should use what it gets passed
14:07:23amiconnThe upper-level code is responsible for combining widgets
14:08:01Casainhoanyone can take me out a question, about rockbox bootloader?
14:08:10Casainhoanswer on question?
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14:09:47Xezzycan rockbox write tags?
14:09:51linuxstbCasainho: You need to ask it first...
14:09:59linuxstbXezzy: No
14:10:56Casainholinuxstb: I would like to know how a system, an ARM, when boots and have SDRAM mapped and flash NAND, how will rockbox code know where is mapped? the size of memories, etc...
14:11:10linuxstbJdGordon answered that - the .lds file
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14:11:35Casainhoeheh - I don't know what is .lds :-)
14:11:42CasainhoI ignore that :-)
14:11:49Casainhoso, I must read more about that
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14:12:01linuxstbIt's the script used by the linker
14:12:40Casainhookok, I think I understand
14:12:55Casainhoand I have another question, about ATA
14:13:11Casainhowhat is ATA driver? can you resume, give me the idea?
14:14:20linuxstbIt's the driver for the main storage on your device - traditionally this is a hard disk with an ATA interface, but other devices have flash storage (not via an ATA interface), but Rockbox uses the same API - basically just ata_init(), ata_read_sectors() and ata_write_sectors()
14:14:21CasainhoI think ATA is something about read/write in NAND flash memory, because it is not directed adressed... right? is just this?
14:15:57Casainhohmmm... nice, so I think I already have this drive written for me :-) - I thought It were something more complicate as FAT file system
14:16:18CasainhoI will write now this information on wiki :-)
14:16:30JdGordonamiconn: linuxstb: please respond to my ml post...
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14:18:57bertrikCasainho: I think the bootloader also needs FAT fs support, but you can probably reuse that from the existing code
14:19:15*amiconn now gets 153fps on the iaudio remote (when boosted) - without glitches :)
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14:20:14Casainhobertrik: okok, If FAT fs is not device dependent... I will use an ARM9, the same as OlympusMR500
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14:21:35linuxstb_Casainho: Why would the CPU affect how data is stored in the disk?
14:21:37Casainhobertrik: yes, you are right - I remember to see something about mount partitions in bootloader code
14:21:50gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: can you check if r16752 fixes the charger-plugin issue you saw ?
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14:22:46Casainholinuxstb_: well, I am a newbie on this!! - It's a puzzle, I am trying to figure out the things - and now I am more in the drivers...
14:22:51LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Sure, let me update to it.
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14:23:38LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: I'll update my iPod color and test that, too.
14:25:05linuxstb_JdGordon: You're talking about introducing some kind of window manager?
14:25:50 Quit phinze ()
14:25:59JdGordon_i doubt that plugin still works, but all it does it loop between the drawing funcs of the open viewports and the button loop of the focused vp
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14:27:47linuxstb_JdGordon: That doesn't matter - it describes what you're thinking...
14:28:39*amiconn seems to have introduced a funny bug on M3
14:28:50amiconnIf you pull the remote, rockbox shuts down...
14:28:56Xezzyerm sorry im bit confused. Rockbox can read any txxx?
14:29:41*pixelma can't get bitmap strips to work on her M5 sim (it's crosscompiled though - windows sim compiled under linux)
14:29:47LambdaCalculus37Xezzy: Any what?
14:29:58Xezzytxxx tag
14:30:18Xezzyin id3
14:31:27pixelmait draws the complete bitmap, so I see the upper part of the strip (one icon plus a few lines of the next in the cabbiev2 theme)
14:32:20pixelmaunfortunately crosscompiling spit so many warnings that I can't find any real warnings
14:33:58LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: My iPod now detects and distinguishes between USB and the wall charger.
14:34:02linuxstb_JdGordon: My immediate reaction is how do screens do processing? i.e. you have a function to allow them to draw, and function to send them keyboard input, but nothing else. e.g. if they take a long time to deal with button input, what happens to the other screens? Or what happens when a screen wants to create a new screen?
14:34:19gevaertsOK. I can forget about that bug now then :)
14:34:22linuxstb_pixelma: Can you show me your .wps ?
14:35:50*amiconn doesn't think we need a sophisticated window manager
14:36:11amiconnWhat we need is a proper hierarchy of viewports, not more, imho
14:36:34JdGordonthere is no heirachy though... they are really all at the same level
14:37:02JdGordonlinuxstb_: yep.. all valid points, I guess the processing happens in the button loop for BUTTON_NONE
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14:37:08amiconnI mean a hierarchy in how viewports are subdivided
14:37:19linuxstb_JdGordon: Also, the functionality you want (WPS elements displayed on the menu screen) can be achieved with my proposal for customising the status bar (hidden in my viewports design document) - the .wps containing viewports which are marked as "wps only", "statusbar only" and "both"
14:37:32amiconnNo z-order or overlapping of active viewports - that would be a hell of a mess to implement
14:38:41JdGordonI was looking for a way to pull the statusbar drawing code out of each screen and came up with this
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14:39:22JdGordonz-order wouldnt be handled... and only one vp would ever be active at any time
14:39:49linuxstb_JdGordon: I don't think the requirement to call gui_syncstatusbar_draw() in every screen is that bad, if that's the only issue.
14:40:01amiconnWhy that? A screen or even a widget can use several viewports, that's the whole point of it
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14:41:35amiconnE.g. the list widget can subdivide its viewport into at least 4 others: Headline (optional), scrollbar (optional), icons (optional) and text area
14:41:51JdGordonlinuxstb_: yes, at the time of the initial thought the statusbar checks were important to the list code.. its not now so i'm starting to concede that the idea is over the top
14:41:52amiconnThen the code that draws the text area doesn't need to care about the other areas
14:42:50JdGordonthats what happens now
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14:44:13pixelmalinuxstb: one mistake found (was mine), I now get the (old) default. Trying to investigate on my own
14:46:04linuxstb_pixelma: OK. Let me know if you think the WPS parser should contain more checks - if you're making mistakes, I'm sure others will...
14:46:51pixelmathe problem is that I don't get a console window with a crosscompiled sim (I think rasher reported the same) :\
14:47:20linuxstb_The common mistake (that I made a lot) was forgetting to specify the number of subimages with %xl - but I think that should now be picked up if you try and do %xdAa with an out-of-bounds subimage id.
14:47:27linuxstb_^picked up by the parser
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14:51:09pixelmalinuxstb: in the main WPS the mistake was that the playmode.bmp "ID" character was still from the old WPS ('W' and in the conditional it was 'F')
14:53:26pixelmacp'ed from your 160x128x16 version
14:56:25JdGordonok, I've changed the list to accept a parent vp on init, should I commit it now o wait untill some screen actually changes it?
14:56:45pixelmalinuxstb: the 160x128x16 is missing the 'C' in the last two parts of the volume conditional...
14:57:27pixelmacausing the 0dB and the above line level image to vanish
14:57:45linuxstb_pixelma: Ooops. Will you fix, or should I?
14:58:24pixelmait would be nice if you could fix, I'm a bit confused with my own changes ATM
14:58:34linuxstb_No problem.
14:59:08linuxstb_I'm in the middle of some other cabbie changes as well now (converting the rest of the colour versions to bitmap strips), but can do that.
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15:00:50linuxstb_pixelma: Committed.
15:01:49linuxstb_pixelma: Also, be careful with the battch and battpl bitmaps - they are declared in the wrong order in the existing WPSs..
15:02:39pixelmaI used the colour version as template and cp'ed the conditional part
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15:03:22 Part Inv1s1ble
15:06:43pixelmalinuxstb: the other mistake was a missing closing | after the added number of subimages
15:07:08JdGordonok, I'm changing the menu to be more like a widget (like it should) so screens can draw it without the staus/button bars and in the viewport they want, sound good?
15:07:51JdGordon... but not tonight...
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15:08:56linuxstb_pixelma: Did the parser reject it (when you forgot the closing | symbol) ?
15:09:44pixelmayes, got the old text default (as I said - couldn't get error messages)
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15:26:35*pixelma now has an M5 sim with console and wonders about the output while playing WMAs
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15:45:13*nls_web feels the need to ask this again: Does anyone have a better idea than adding a line to firmware/FILES for each (since those were split they have been mssing from the tarballs)
15:45:43linuxstb_nls_web: Not unless we just get rid of FILES completely...
15:46:04linuxstb_Although maybe a wildcard such as target/*/*/ will work...
15:47:38*pixelma also wonders why 128 as viewport width is an "invalid" parameter on the Iaudio remote (CustomWPS says the 3rd argument should be the width at least)
15:47:58*LambdaCalculus37 notices that M3 manual builds are missing from the Manual page
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15:49:16pixelmachanging that to 127 makes it not fail in the parser but somehow I can't see the text and the icons, need to figure that one out as well
15:49:32linuxstb_pixelma: Ah yes, someone mentioned that bug the other day, but I forgot to fix it...
15:49:50*linuxstb_ goes to do that
15:50:00nls_weblinuxstb_: good idea, now to figure out how to make a tarball locally to test....
15:50:31pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: because they are not prepared yet (but then there shouldn't be a picture of it on the manual page)
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15:50:45pixelmaat least to my knowledge
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15:52:31LambdaCalculus37pixelma: That's what caught my eye. There's a spot for the M3 on the manual page, but no links to a manual.
15:52:46LambdaCalculus37Thanks for clearing that up.
15:52:58pixelmalinuxstb: if fgshade and bgshade are numbers from 0 to 3 - which of it is the black "end" and which the white "end" - and do they need to be filled out?
15:54:40pixelmaand are they supposed to work with an RWPS/ Iaudio remote (which is greyscale)?
15:54:58linuxstb_pixelma: Yes, all viewport parameters are compulsory. I don't know which is which though...
15:55:15linuxstb_And yes, they should work on the remotes...
15:56:57pixelmaremoving those two parameters from my viewport definition makes the text show up (not the icons below yet, wonder how they are positioned now...)
15:57:12pixelmathe text that should be in the viewport
15:57:25linuxstb_pixelma: I've just committed a fix to the checking of the viewport dimensions - it should accept the full LCD width/height now.
15:57:57linuxstb_Hmm, the wps should be rejected if the viewport definition doesn't include all the parameters.
15:58:11linuxstb_What does your %V line look like?
15:58:39pixelma%V|0|10|127|72|1| (now)
15:58:49linuxstb_For a greyscale LCD?
15:59:00pixelmayes, Iaudio remote
15:59:09linuxstb_Then that's a bug - that should be rejected.
16:00:16pixelmathe line with the 2 more parameters was not rejected but nothing showed up, except the backdrop and the progress bar
16:00:22linuxstb_Ah, I see what's happening - the code doesn't reject any viewport definition that's wrong...
16:00:42pixelmashort break, bbl
16:00:52linuxstb_Me too...
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16:12:11Gr34t3stIs there a reason why none of the wps files are working?
16:13:28PaulJam_could you be more specific? which player and which wps files?
16:13:58linuxstb_And which version of Rockbox?
16:15:22Gr34t3styea sorry. All of the .wps files on the rockbox gallery site. I have a sansa e250r . I dunno what version
16:15:29nls_webBagder: ping
16:15:31linuxstb_Gr34t3st: _all_ of them?
16:15:42DefineByteYou mean you can't download them?
16:15:56PaulJam_does the default wps (cabbiev2) work?
16:16:02Bagdernls_web: yes?
16:16:12Gr34t3stI can download and install them. When I run them, the player shows the default playback screen
16:16:45linuxstb_Gr34t3st: Which ones have you tried? Some of them require unofficial changes (patches) to Rockbox in order to work.
16:17:00nls_webBagder: is it the release script in tools/ that make the tarballs?
16:17:02PaulJam_Gr34t3st: did the description of the wps menion any need for a custom/unsupported build?
16:17:07Bagdernls_web: yeps
16:17:25nls_webok, thanks
16:17:43Gr34t3stThe iPhone themes, Barracuda themes, and a few more I can't remember.
16:18:12Gr34t3stI got them all from
16:18:53LambdaCalculus37Gr34t3st: Did you read their descriptions like PaulJam_ mentioned?
16:19:10DefineByteThey need patches.
16:19:12linuxstb_Gr34t3st: Both the iphone and Barracuda themes say they need a custom build.
16:19:22linuxstb_(read the description under the pictures...)
16:20:05LambdaCalculus37Gr34t3st: The ones that work properly with official builds are the ones labeled "Any Recent Daily Build".
16:20:25*linuxstb_ hopes this situation can now be cleaned up for most of these themes
16:20:44DefineByteWould be good if you could filter out custom builds.
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16:21:18webguest95hey wazzup everyone
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16:21:29Gr34t3stSo I need to go to rockbox's site and find that custom build?
16:21:39linuxstb_DefineByte: Or better, fix the wpses to work with the official build.
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16:21:52DefineByteSuer, if that's all they need.
16:21:55LambdaCalculus37No, you need to go to the Unsupported Builds section of the forum:
16:22:31NEMisisdoes anyone know when the exact date when rockbox will come out for support for the sansa e200 v2 models?
16:22:42LambdaCalculus37Nemisis: When it's done.
16:22:42linuxstb_NEMisis: Hard to say, as no-one is working on it...
16:22:58NEMisisthat bites
16:23:09linuxstb_NEMisis: Then help...
16:23:28NEMisisI dont know code that well
16:23:44NEMisisI know its in C but I dont know it (well)
16:24:20LambdaCalculus37NEMisis: Then you'll have to learn how to code in C.
16:24:45NEMisisthats going to take
16:25:16LambdaCalculus37NEMisis: Well, Rome wasn't built in a day.
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16:25:18Gr34t3stWhere do I get the custom builds?
16:25:40thegeek_try the forum
16:25:49Horschtfrom the unsuported builds forum
16:25:57NEMisisor get a source
16:25:58LambdaCalculus37Gr34t3st: Look up above. I linked to the Unsupported Builds forum.
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16:28:25LambdaCalculus37Gr34t3st: Remember... if you use a custom build, you can't ask for help here. You have to direct questions to the specific thread for your build in the Unsupported Builds forum.
16:29:58Gr34t3stok thanks
16:30:05Gr34t3stone more question
16:30:26Gr34t3stNone of my songs have album art. Is there an easy way to attach those to their songs?
16:31:19LambdaCalculus37That page shall guide you.
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17:07:17PaulJamlittle question: if the clip counter setting only affects the recording screen, why is it not in the recording settings?
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17:20:23pixelmalinuxstb: how is the positioning of the icons handled in a wps with viewports? I.e. I can't find out why the icons don't show up in the viewported WPS which worked before (and I moved the viewport definition as far down as possible (I think) as per the CustomWPS wiki)
17:20:36pixelmaI could pastebin the code...
17:23:03PaulJamif you display an image inside a viewport the coordinates are relative to the viewport (at least for %x). in the main viewport they shouldn't behave different than before.
17:24:36pixelmahow do I display an image inside a viewport (using the %xd after the viewport definition)? I think I have all above...
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17:25:58pixelma in case someone wants to have a look
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17:26:40pixelmathat 127 could be a 128 now
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17:27:11PaulJamcould it be that the wiewport overlapps the images?
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17:32:29pixelmaI made it less tall now (last line of text isn't visible anymore) but the icons still don't show up
17:34:46pixelmait = the viewport
17:35:23PaulJamhmm, i can't find anything unusual in that WPS. do the icons show when you comment out the whole viewport?
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17:40:28Tuplanollahmm, can i charge my sansa if the computer is turned off?
17:42:10 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:42:55scorche|sha USB port isnt like a power socket...
17:43:26PaulJamthat propably depends on your mainboard. if the USB ports stay powered when the PC is off then i would guess that you can charge it.
17:44:03LambdaCalculus37But most likely the answer would be no.
17:44:34pixelmaor "just try" ;)
17:44:38PaulJamon my PC i can charge my h300 when it is off.
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17:45:17ManfredMellerHello guys i’m ManfredMeller from Germany (Nuremberg)
17:45:20ManfredMellerCan someone give me write permission for twiki? I need this permission for uploading the fm-presets for my town (Nuremberg).
17:46:49domonokyManfredMeller: and your wikiname is ManfredMeller ?
17:47:51domonokydone, promise not to spam ! :-)
17:48:09LambdaCalculus37And welcome to Rockbox! :)
17:48:18ManfredMellerthx I WILL NOT SPAM!
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18:02:40Beta2KNuremberg eh?
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18:03:51*ender` yawns
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18:07:02tradedaemonso I wanna write a flashcard plugin for rockbox, should I just write the plugin and test it and then come back or do I need to go through some system first before i do anything?
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18:08:30nls_webIf your goal is to get it included in svn it's always a good idea to discuss it a bit first
18:08:45nls_webso, describe what you have in mind :)
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18:10:59pixelmanls_web: I don't understand your forum post about the DACs...
18:12:01tradedaemonWell, i'm a jp major, so I need some way to study kanji/vocab without having to need my labtop around. Basically it'll take some kind of uploaded files that have the stuff you want to study and let you go through them for review
18:12:44tradedaemoni wrote a java flashcard program but need to be at a comp to use it and that's not always plausible
18:14:11tradedaemonbut it'll probably end up being a general use flashcard program where you can input any kind of data you want to review
18:14:19tradedaemonso not just lang specific
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18:17:05tradedaemonso it'll let you layout the cards the way you want
18:17:23tradedaemonya, that's about it
18:19:15nls_webtradedaemon: sounds good to me :)
18:19:24*amiconn wonders whether and how it's possible to check a C variable from within an asm file
18:20:20tradedaemondo i have to submit some kind of project proposal like that or just start writing?
18:20:42nls_webpixelma: I may have expressed myself a bit unclear, what I meant was that we send uncompressed pcm to the dacs, not mp3, wma or anything else as he was suggesting
18:21:17amiconnA dac can only process pcm by design, even on archos
18:22:16nls_webtradedaemon: no, not at all, I personally like your idea and if well implemented it will probably be accepted
18:23:09tradedaemonalright cool, thanks. I'll be back if i got questions, hehe
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18:25:46linuxstb_pixelma: Looking at your WPS, you are in effect using two full-screen viewports - all lines before the first %V are displayed in the default viewport, then you define another viewport, overlapping the first.
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18:26:20linuxstb_Sorry, I realise the second viewport isn't full-screen...
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18:28:02pixelmado I need to define a second viewport below the first and display the images there?
18:28:36pixelmabut why does the progressbar show correectly then?
18:28:44linuxstb_I would try that yes - i.e. put everything (including the progressbar) within a specific viewport, so no lines that create output appear before the first %V
18:28:56*pixelma correct correectly
18:29:09linuxstb_But I don't understand exactly what's happening with your wps... I'm going to look at it.
18:29:10*pixelma gives up
18:29:27pixelma(correcting typos)
18:29:39pickylinuxstb: shouldn't you also check for vp->x >= 0?
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18:30:13pickylinuxstb: I mean in wps_parser.c
18:30:27amiconnlinuxstb: Why is the default vp sepcial?
18:30:45linuxstb_amiconn: It isn't special...
18:30:58amiconnWell, in this case it seems to be
18:30:59linuxstb_But using overlapping viewports might cause problems.
18:31:27amiconnI would expect strange effects in the area where they're overlapping
18:31:29linuxstb_picky: No - parse_list will only return non-negative integers.
18:31:45linuxstb_picky: There's a comment in the code to that effect (IIRC)
18:31:46amiconnBut the vanishing icons are outside the overlap
18:32:31pickylinuxstb_: shouldn't the members (x and y, and also width and height) be declared unsigned int then?
18:32:49linuxstb_amiconn: Yes, I don't understand exactly why pixelma's wps isn't working - I want to investigate.
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18:35:57pixelmaat least it's not only me =)
18:36:11linuxstb_picky: No, we generally just want things to be of type "int" wherever possible.
18:36:35linuxstb_pixelma: I'm sure there's a logical explanation, I just need time to invent it... ;)
18:37:59pickylinuxstb_: if that's the rule in rockbox then ok. But I always like to use what language gives me (a dedicated type in this case) and not rely just on comments. Are viewports with negative x/y generally possible? Are they impossible just in WPS?
18:39:39linuxstbCo-ordinates in general are signed integers.
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18:41:47pickylinuxstb: how would a viewport with negative x work? Would it lead to a crash? Or would it be clipped?
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18:42:06picky(at the driver level?)
18:42:31pickyWhen it's clipped then I see no reason to not allow negative x and y in WPS.
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18:43:50linuxstbpixelma: Are your bmps available somewhere for that WPS? Or do I just need to combine the ones in SVN?
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18:55:17pixelmalinuxstb: they aren't available yet, I'll zip them up for you.
18:55:32linuxstbThanks. What target is this for?
18:56:08pixelmaIaudio remote (M3)
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19:11:43linuxstbpixelma: The sim is giving me errors about your .bmp files - "read_bmp_fd: Unsupported compression (type 2)"
19:12:05linuxstbSo it's not loading them.
19:12:38linuxstbshuffle, volume, repeat, playmode and wpsbackdrop all fail to load. The others are OK
19:13:22pixelmahmm... could be a recent problem now, I just saved them again as 4-bit (and didn't have an eye on it - I think photos.. falls back to RLE compression as default)
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19:14:34pixelmaso that shouldn't be my problem (because they were loaded correctly without the %V)
19:15:09linuxstbYes, I still think there are other problems. I'll fix your bmps locally, and keep testing.
19:17:38linuxstbpixelma: This seems to work - - but I still want to be able to explain why your version doesn't...
19:18:00linuxstbI just put the icons in their own viewport, and modified the %xl co-ordinates appropriately
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19:19:57pixelmayeah, already started that project too :)
19:20:20linuxstbpixelma: In fact, your version seems to work with the fixed bitmaps...
19:20:53pixelmaI need to try an updated sim (and corrected bitmaps)
19:21:33linuxstbBut there is a problem - the conditionals in the first viewport are sometimes clearing the lines of text in the second viewport
19:22:10linuxstb(first = default, not specified by you)
19:25:49PaulJamin my wps i solved that by inseting some blank lines at the top of the WPS, so lines in the main VP that might interfere with other VPs are below the visible area of the screen.
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19:27:44linuxstbWould you call that a bug or a feature (lines being cleared when they display images)?
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20:04:23Morgan1does anyone have the lastest m-build?
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20:05:02Morgan1or at least a working d/l link
20:07:19scorche|shi take it that is an unsupported build?
20:12:29Morgan1not sure
20:12:38Morgan1how could i tell
20:13:46LloreanIf it's from anywhere but the "Current Build" page on, it's an unsupported build.
20:14:42Morgan1then its unsupported
20:15:28Morgan1thats the link he gives for the build but i keep getting an error message
20:15:31LloreanThere is no latest build.
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20:15:39LloreanThe thread's been removed entirely because he's stopped making it.
20:16:09Morgan1so its not possible for me to download an older version
20:16:36LloreanYou can no longer download that build.
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20:17:13PaulJamif you need it for a theme you could check if a different unsupported build has the neccessary patches included
20:18:00Morgan1well i need a build that supports Matthew Schneiders Iphone theme
20:18:06Morgan1any suggestions?
20:20:48LambdaCalculus37Morgan1: I think PaulJam just gave you a good suggestion.
20:20:53PaulJamhmm, the theme uses scrolling margins... i doubt that you find a recent custom build that includes this patch.
20:22:06Morgan1couldnt i download the patch seperately
20:22:45scorche|shyou would likely have to apply it to an earlier svn
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20:23:41Morgan1thanks 4 the help
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20:26:48*linuxstb experiments with customisable status bar -
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20:27:44BHSPitMonkeylinuxstb, trippy
20:27:56Lloreanlinuxstb: That already makes me very happy. I'd use it even if it *had* to look that incongruous.
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20:29:34linuxstb_That's just a quick "proof-of-concept" hack, but it just uses the .wps file to specify the statusbar. Each viewport is defined to be "wps", "status bar" or "both", so anything that's in the WPS can be in the status "bar", anywhere on the screen.
20:30:02linuxstb_But you obviously need to be able to control the list (or whatever else is on the screen) to not overlap the status bar viewports.
20:30:15LloreanThat's almost exactly what I'd want.
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20:30:29 Quit amiconn (" bbl, and would like to see that wps bug fixed...")
20:31:30LloreanWhat I'd personally like to see is a viewport markable as "list", and when you invoke the list without stopping music from the WPS, the list can be drawn inside that viewport
20:31:40LloreanInstead of its normal contents, that is.
20:31:53LloreanBut that kinda just seems the inverse of your idea anyway
20:32:39linuxstb_What if the WPS contains multiple viewports, which take the space of the list?
20:33:57LloreanI thought viewports couldn't overlap now?
20:34:38linuxstb_They can, but you may get into trouble...
20:34:48linuxstb_e.g. scrolling lines mustn't overlap
20:35:24LloreanWell, my idea was dependent upon faulty assumptions. :-P
20:35:32LloreanAnyway, yours would allow pretty much the same thing.
20:36:06LloreanThough I do kinda like the idea of some WPS elements only showing up in the list if playback is happening.
20:36:25linuxstb_You should be able to do that with conditionals
20:36:49linuxstb_Or did you want the list size to vary depending on playback status?
20:37:21BHSPitMonkeyBagder, you around?
20:38:46Lloreanlinuxstb_: Hm. Conditionals would be good enough. My preference would be for the option to have the list expand (for example, I could have "now playing" vanish if playback stopped, for a slightly longer list) but hardly essential.
20:38:48linuxstb_As I said, the patch is just a quick hack (and has many bugs), but it's here -
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20:40:24linuxstb_And my modified cabbiev2 -
20:40:31linuxstb_(for the gigabeat)
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20:46:27Rincewindhi disorganizer
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20:47:19*disorganizer thinks that other also read discworld here. but doesnt see why he got this feeling
20:48:31*gevaerts doesn't see any wizards around anyway
20:48:47*Rincewind puts on his pointy wizzard hat
20:49:16*nls_web is afraind to kick the luggage...
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20:49:43*scorche|sh sees the luggage salivating at nls_web
20:50:09*disorganizer installs rockbox on himself
20:51:07*Rincewind senses something terrible happening and starts to run
20:51:32*Llorean would like to point out this is an On-Topic channel
20:52:12disorganizer*rofl* i think thats what rincewind expected ;-) anyways back on topic: i read in the logs we have a patch for a viewportified statusbar?
20:52:32Rincewinddisorganizer, indeed ^^
20:53:45linuxstb_disorganizer: I wouldn't go that far...
20:54:16Lloreanlinuxstb_: It's very nearly one.
20:54:22linuxstb_At the moment, it's a hack, and I think there's a lot of work to do to make it work nicely. That's assuming we want to go that route.
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20:54:45linuxstb_But it gets my vote ;)
20:54:56Lloreanlinuxstb_: I think it'd address Amiconn's concern, since it means no extra file loading for the status bar, and it doesn't rule out using the default one at all.
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20:55:55disorganizerwould your hack display for example the "next track" info and update it correctly even if the wps is not the active context?
20:56:07Rincewindok on topic, I would like to apply for gsoc. How much time time should I put in my proposal? I have a few basic ideas what I want to do, I am just wondering how much effort I should put into selling myself on the application, since you can question me in IRC anyway to decide.
20:57:47linuxstb_Llorean: In order to recreate the default statusbar, we need to add wps tags for displaying the default "vector" icons - as we discussed the other day.
20:58:21linuxstb_Rincewind: IMO you need to put together a reasonable project plan - i.e. what you want to do, and how you will go about it.
20:58:51linuxstb_Rincewind: But as an example, last year's applications were no more than the equivalent of 1-2 sides of A4/Letter paper
20:59:16disorganizerthe reason for my question is: imho the nicest thing the wps'ers and them'ers could get it that we would be able to display lists during playback (for example playlist browsing) while in the background the wps still updates its content :-)
20:59:37linuxstb_disorganizer: Yes, the WPS elements will update as normal.
20:59:48linuxstb_You can even put album-art there if you wish...
21:00:36linuxstb_One thing I'm not sure about is how this should work with the recording and radio screens...
21:00:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:01:03disorganizerpropably the fields should behave just as the field would behave if no date is there.
21:01:41disorganizerso if the playback is stopped, the fields should just be empty
21:02:37linuxstb_Rincewind: Do you have a project in mind?
21:03:21Rincewindlinuxstb_, yes, I think that it might be possible for me to do the wps/theme editor plugin
21:03:47Lloreanlinuxstb_: Can't you just leave the old status bar as an option, the way you currently display it? Rather than worry about allowing people to "re-create" it
21:04:04RincewindI had the idea for a wps editor last summer but haven't done anything about it yet
21:04:11linuxstb_Llorean: It would be nice to be able to delete the existing statusbar code...
21:04:22Lloreanlinuxstb_: Ah, well in that case, ignore me. :)
21:04:50LloreanRincewind: Remember that this is a project that should take months, with amounts of work going into it similar to an actual paying job.
21:05:17LloreanThe more descriptive you are in your proposal, the more likely we are to actually be interested in asking you further questions, rather than spending our questioning time asking other people further questions.
21:05:24*linuxstb_ thinks a good wps/theme editor is a hard project - especially one that is usable on all targets
21:05:55RincewindLlorean, I know. I have quite a few nice ideas (viewports based, with live preview...)
21:06:08linuxstb__usable_ being the hard thing...
21:06:57disorganizer@linuxstb: did you put your patch on flyspray?
21:07:07linuxstb_disorganizer: I told you, it's not a patch...
21:07:26Lloreanlinuxstb_: Well a lot of the code you'd use already exists. I'm not saying it wouldn't be "hard", but I'm not sure it's worth the amount of money google is paying. That's why I'd like a full proposal, to see what all the goals of the thing are.
21:07:27*disorganizer obviously misunderstood, sorry :-)
21:07:36Lloreanlinuxstb_: Basically, how much "new" code will need to be written.
21:07:49linuxstb_disorganizer: ;) I just meant that it's in far too early a state to share widely.
21:08:21RincewindLlorean, got it, you get a nice long proposal from me
21:08:27LloreanBagder: Can I ask a favour? Can I be accepted as a mentor? :)
21:08:39LloreanRincewind: Length isn't as important as clarity and details. ;)
21:09:00RincewindLlorean, yes, but details is hard to do without length :)
21:09:21linuxstb_Rincewind: My main question (you don't have to answer now) is how will the UI work - so if you have ideas for that, maybe describe them in your proposal (with mock-up screenshots)
21:09:30LloreanJust as a note, I'd love to see a point 'n click WPS editor.
21:10:06linuxstb_Rincewind: Also, is a plugin the best approach? Maybe a PC application would be more useful.
21:10:09Rincewindlinuxstb_, i have a few ideas. I even looked at the wps parser to see that it should be possible in principle
21:10:16LloreanBut I think the key would be having the .wps file clean enough to be human readable afterward, rather than a FIFO writing based on what was dragged into the screen.
21:11:02Rincewindlinuxstb_, I like the plugin because it is on target, which gives the possibility to have a live preview.
21:11:16linuxstb_Rincewind: You could incorporate the sim and have a live preview...
21:11:26linuxstb_Plus the PC application has a far better UI
21:11:36linuxstb_^capability for a far better...
21:12:06linuxstb_Or if not the whole sim, the wps rendering code from Rockbox.
21:12:20Rincewindlinuxstb_, I don't have any experience with linux gui toolkits
21:12:59linuxstb_Do you have experience of any gui toolkits?
21:13:06Rincewindbut that's not a real problem, i suppose
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21:13:39linuxstb_I'm not saying a plugin won't be nice, just that I can see a PC application being far more useful.
21:13:48crzyboysterrasher: Can you do me a huge favor and update the win32 simulators available on your site?
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21:14:26disorganizer@linuxstb: just maybe a dumb question: at the time the list-viewportification allowed us to position the lists inside parts of the viewport i noticed it would be nice to be able to have a wps still display and update its data, but allow the context menu to display inside a viewport of the wps (for exmple instead of the aa). would this be possible without too much effort?
21:15:15crzyboysterDo we have viewport conditionals implemented yet?
21:15:30linuxstb_crzyboyster: No
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21:17:03linuxstb_disorganizer: No, that sounds too complex. I'm not intending the WPS itself to update in the background, just a "super status bar" that can display WPS elements around the main screen.
21:18:00kugelRincewind: sounds like a nice project to me
21:18:04disorganizerlinuxstb: would it be possible to split this "superstatusbar" up into 2 parts? for example on for the upper line of the screen, one for the lower line(s)?
21:18:11Rincewindlinuxstb_, I have to think about it. Everything I have in mind was for a plugin with limited input capabilities, A PC version would very different, more like a wysiwyg html editor
21:18:36linuxstb_disorganizer: The super status-bar can be as many viewports as you wish - my screenshot has 3 viewports, they just all happen to be together.
21:19:17linuxstb_These can be identical viewports to ones in the WPS (the icons in my example), or statusbar-only viewports (the Now Playing bar and the current track text in my example)
21:19:27disorganizer*g* so it would theoretically be possible to have all trackdata display in the superstatusbar and dont display trackinfo in the wps at all... nice *g*
21:19:57*disorganizer in fact didnt even look at your example yet...
21:19:59linuxstb_Rincewind: Or do both ;)
21:20:02kugelRincewind: But I'd also be in favor for a PC app. Since the DAPs have little buttons, it will be more like a pain the create a whole theme on them
21:20:26kugelProbably not worth the developement on the target
21:21:14linuxstb_disorganizer: - the WPS is here -
21:21:51linuxstb_The number after the %V tag is a bitmask for which screens that viewport is displayed on - 1=WPS, 2=Statusbar; 3=Both
21:21:56linuxstb_(the default is 1)
21:22:02LloreanRincewind: If you do decide to look at a PC app version, might I suggest looking at integration into Rockbox Utility while you're at it. :)
21:22:09Rincewindthe plugin would be used to make changes to existing wps' (image posistions, small tag changes...)
21:22:29linuxstb_Llorean: I thought about that, and am not sure about it - I don't like monolithic apps...
21:23:08Lloreanlinuxstb_: There was talk of using Qt plugins for things like this.
21:23:12*linuxstb_ likes the Unix philosophy...
21:23:21disorganizer@ linuxstb: is that a seperate "wps"-file or the wps-file?
21:23:30linuxstb_disorganizer: There's only one wps file.
21:23:31RincewindLlorean, I think it sould be standalone, but callable from rbutil
21:23:37LloreanI don't like monolithic apps, but I don't like to have 400 apps all with rockbox-only PC-side jobs.
21:23:47linuxstb_400? ;)
21:23:56LloreanWell, there are already jobs we could cut out
21:23:58LloreanVoice building.
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21:24:03LloreanTheme download and install.
21:24:16LloreanWe could make a GUI database builder.
21:24:46LloreanIt seems like someone should be able to download RBUtil, then as they need the additional features (theme editor) they could ask it to download the newest plugin for it from
21:24:49kugelLlorean: I allready suggested in the dev-mailing list to implement the sim into rbutil, in order to make it possible to create themes with an app within rbutil
21:24:57kugelbut that idea got rejected pretty fast
21:25:50Lloreankugel: I'm against implementing just the sim into rbutil, since its purpose is far from just WPS simulation. It's a lot more.
21:26:16LloreanBut I'd be for having a WPS editor plugin with JUST live previews of editable UI elements.
21:27:10linuxstb_Yes, a "live preview" using the WPS rendering code (but NOT the full-blown sim) would be more useful IMO
21:27:21kugelAnd I was for the sim in rbutil, since it would make more things possible, other than "just" creating themes, like playling around with settings.
21:27:38linuxstb_You would need 28 sims though...
21:28:11Lloreankugel: For people who actually need the sim, the sim is always compilable.
21:28:19kugellinuxstb_: You said a view minutes ago "Rincewind: You could incorporate the sim and have a live preview..."
21:28:40LloreanIf there's a WPS preview / editor, people who actually "need" it should be down to people using it to test development anyway, for the vast majority.
21:28:40linuxstb_kugel: I meant code from the sim
21:29:06Rincewindimho, a good wps editor should interface with the sim, because the wps has to react to changing states (play, pause), proper debugging would need a full sim. I don't say that I want to take the easy way and use the sim, just that having both is beneficial
21:29:20disorganizer@ linuxstb: ok. i really love that statusbar! i hope you will some day if you have time make a patch for it *g*
21:29:28kugelAny, with or without sim, I'm absolutely keen on a point and click theme creator app in rbutil
21:29:43linuxstb_Rincewind: I disagree - you don't want the "rockbox sim", just a "wps sim" - allowing easy testing of the different play modes, battery status etc
21:29:48LloreanRincewind: You can have toggles for Play/Pause etc, without including the sim. the sim has actual playback code and codecs (unnecessary), file buffering (not needed), database, etc, etc.
21:30:53Lloreanlinuxstb_: Would you be okay with RButil being pared down to minimal install, and extras like theme editing being downloaded by, and invoked from, it (either as plugins or standalone apps?)
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21:31:20kugelAFAIK there were some ideas to have other GUI elements inside the WPS (one viewport for the main menu for example). If that's gonna happen, the theme creator app would need more and more parts of the real rockbox
21:31:22LloreanAnd actually, standalone apps may be better, since that doesn't include any dependency that plugins might have (/me has no idea if they would or wouldn't)
21:31:27RincewindLlorean, linuxstb_, I wouldn't include the sim with my editor, but it would be nice to have a button there "test this in the simulator"
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21:31:48Lloreankugel: No, it wouldn't. Not really. a fake list preview is far, far less than including all the settings code.
21:32:20linuxstb_Llorean: I guess I'm not the typical rbutil user - I would just like to launch an editor directory, without going via rbutil. But I'm a command-line person, so probably best to ignore me...
21:32:55Lloreanlinuxstb_: I'm a command line person too. But I'm trying to think of a method that requires the user to read a minimum of pages, and do a minimum of guessing.
21:33:07LloreanIf they see an "Edit Themes" or even just "Themes" tab in RBUtil while installing...
21:33:17linuxstb_Rincewind: I think such an app would need a live preview, and IMO the easiest (and best) way to do that is to use the existing code in Rockbox to render the WPS.
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21:34:00*linuxstb_ goes to eat
21:34:17LloreanAnd if it invokes a standalone app, then people like you can download it, while people using the Util can just click the "invoke" button to download if not present, and run.
21:34:22Rincewindlinuxstb_, yes, of course, a live preview is needed, I just wanted to point out that even with a live preview the sim has it's uses
21:38:14disorganizer @ linuxstb: so in your hack 1 is default, thus the normal "old" %V tags show in the wps only without modification, correct? so "old" themes should still work. if i get it to compile and run with my wps i will test it tomorrow :-)
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21:44:24kugelDid someone allready take a look at FS #8517 ?
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21:52:41kugelRincewind: A quick question regarding FS #5555
21:52:55kugelwhich patch version is your last sync actually basing of?
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21:53:49Rincewindkugel, my last sync is based on the code I use
21:54:13kugelSo rec_button_1009.patch?
21:55:28midgey|webso, have we had many interested students for GSoC?
21:55:49Rincewindkugel, I think so
21:56:07kugelWhy do you do that?
21:56:25kugelAre you not respecting the contributions that other people did to that patch?
21:57:05disorganizer@ linuxstb : your hack does not set the list-length, does it? so the lists still use the whole screen and get overwritten by the statusbar
21:57:32Rincewindkugel, I talk to you later, I have dinner ready
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21:58:23disorganizerthere should propably be a way to define which area is "free to display things" for the statusbar.
22:02:24PaulJam_disorganizer: he already said that the patch is just a quick hack witch has still issues.
22:03:01kugelRincewind: the previous patch wasn't even out of sync
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22:04:29linuxstbdisorganizer: That's nothing to do with my patch - it's the custom list position feature.
22:04:49Rincewindkugel, I didn't have the time at that moment to work on my patch because of exams. So I just did a "git diff master > patch" and uploaded it. And I haven't worked at it since. If I do something for this patch again I will of course incorporate FiDO's changes
22:04:51linuxstbdisorganizer: But for testing, you can probably manually edit the list viewport in apps/gui/viewport.c
22:04:52crzyboysterAny idea when the site will be back up for uploading new themes?
22:06:22disorganizer@ linuxstb : ok. so that can be fixed when the custom list positioning patch is enabled like before the commit :-) but i must admit this really looks GREAT.
22:06:33linuxstbcrzyboyster: No, but I would hope it's soon, now that we have viewports in WPS
22:07:45linuxstbcrzyboyster: If you want to help, you can start converting themes that require patches to work with the official build (assuming they have a clear license allowing others to change them)
22:08:28disorganizer@linuxstb: also, the %wd (if left out) does display the original sb in the wps. this propably should display the "custom" sb or should be completely dropped. i think this hack should somehow be continued into a patch and maybe a commit.
22:08:33crzyboysterSo what configuration for multifont do most people prefer from ?
22:09:19linuxstbWhich reminds me of another question - do we want the new "official" site to include themes that require patches? IMO we can live without them.
22:10:14crzyboysterI would say definetely not. It just confuses new users and soon such patches (and themes) will be rendered useless.
22:10:18nls_webI agree, they cause too much confusion for new users to be worth it imho
22:10:23disorganizeri think as soon as mf is implemented we do not need custom wps-patches any more. at least until someone finds some nice new feature
22:10:38BagderI too would rather avoid the custom build themes
22:10:53Bagderwe never "needed" them...
22:10:55Lloreanlinuxstb: I think we already planned for that, with "no" being the answer.
22:11:05nls_webthere is always some new shiny hack that everyone HAS to use in their new theme...
22:11:05crzyboysterI've never liked custom builds a lot either :D
22:11:26Rincewindkugel, and your changes before that, too. I haven't done anything real to the patch for quite a long time, as you can tell from comments in the entry.
22:11:33Lloreanlinuxstb: That's part of why themes that don't parse with our SVN parser tester aren't accepted by the script. ;)
22:11:35disorganizerdoes anyone know whether the list-viewport positioning code was dropped before commit or whether it was just ifdef'ed out?
22:11:51Lloreandisorganizer: Wasn't that a separate patch?
22:11:52linuxstbLlorean: Which reminds me, I need to fix checkwps...
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22:12:01threshhey guys
22:12:06PaulJam_maybe the unsupported themes could be put into the broken themes section on rockbox-themes.
22:12:10*scorche|sh waves
22:12:10Lloreanlinuxstb: Please do. The themes site checks it out from SVN automatically, I believe.
22:12:23linuxstbdisorganizer: It was cut out completely.
22:12:23 Quit mud-rb (Remote closed the connection)
22:12:39disorganizer@ linuxstb: too bad. would help now :-)
22:13:14threshis it the appropriate channel to ask about what's the "best" player to buy to use with rockbox? I think i'll need some internal storage + sd/sdhc support + some reasonably good screen.
22:13:27kugelI wonder why all my "svn diff files" contain this in several files:
22:13:35nls_webPaulJam_: If so I would like them to be removed after sitting there for a month or so if they were not fixed
22:13:36Lloreanthresh: If those are actually "need" rather than "want", then your only real choice is the e200 series
22:13:43Lloreankugel: There's a colon removed
22:14:01Lloreanthresh: And that's only MicroSDHC
22:14:08kugelLlorean: Yea, that's what one would think
22:14:17linuxstbPaulJam_: What "broken themes section"? I thought the intention was for the new themes site to start empyty, and for all themes to be uploaded again?
22:14:19kugelbut actually the files are fine
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22:14:25LloreanBagder: Mentor?
22:14:30linuxstb(and only ones that validate with checkwps will be accepted)
22:14:36nls_webkugel: probably has to do with svn:keywords
22:14:50BagderLlorean: accepted!
22:14:55threshLlorean: Thanks, i'll dig it.
22:15:00PaulJam_nls_web: why remove them if they are clearly separated from the working ones? someone could come after a year and fix them.
22:15:08Bagder11 mentors signed up
22:15:09LloreanBagder: Thanks. :) I thought I'd applied earlier, honestly.
22:15:22LloreanIt kept telling me "Nothing to do here yet" or something similar.
22:15:34nls_webPaulJam_: I'm simply against collecting crap in huge piles :P
22:15:39kugelthe files are totally fine, the line is i.e.
22:15:41kugel$Id: demac.c 13562 2007-06-05 16:58:29Z dave $
22:15:45LloreanPaulJam_: Why host them if they're intended specifically for unsupported builds?
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22:16:15LloreanBagder: Now we just need some applications. :)
22:16:19PaulJam_linuxstb: i thought the idea was to regularly check the WPS and move those which fail into a separate section
22:16:54scorche|shlinuxstb: since rasher made a nice, handy dandy script for checkwps, i figure there isnt much of a need to start over clean anymore...and i was thinking of having a page where broken themes will go to for people to fix them up (provided they are permitted)
22:17:19linuxstbPaulJam_: I can't imagine why that would be needed - changes shouldn't be made to the WPS code that breaks compatibility, and if they are, scripts will need to be written to fix all themes on
22:17:26PaulJam_Llorean: because if the features that are used in those WPS make teir way to SVN someone can fix them and make them work with the official buld.
22:17:28kugelnls_web: What did you mean? I don't use svn:keywords at all
22:17:31Lloreanlinuxstb: Just as a note, I think Rasher timed his script and came up less than 10 seconds to check every WPS we've got so far.
22:18:07LloreanPaulJam_: Yes, but until then, we're hosting themes for unsupported builds, and using our bandwidth for those builds.
22:18:11toffe82gevaerts: perhaps something interesting here for the usb, check also the firmware upgrader
22:18:12nls_webkugel: "Id" is set as a keyword so svn will automatically fill in file name etc. between the $ and $
22:18:18kugelthe only thing that happens to that files is, that they're rsync'd to another folder
22:18:25LloreanPaulJam_: We *could* charge a few cents per download of each unsupported theme...
22:18:26linuxstbscorche|sh: I can't remember reading about that in the logs ;) What about the (C) issues?
22:19:27 Nick Horschti is now known as Horscht (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht)
22:19:42crzyboysterI have a question: Would it be a good idea to allow theme submitters to make their themes into the rockbox public domain so that they can be modifed freely?
22:19:51gevaertstoffe82: thanks. I'll look into it later (busy on a jigsaw puzzle now ;)
22:20:01Lloreancrzyboyster: CC-by-SA is probably good enough.
22:20:17scorche|shlinuxstb: well, would you rather them drop off the face of the earth or be hosted on the site without a license till they update it?
22:20:20 Quit midgey|web ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:20:33scorche|shcrzyboyster: public domain isnt a license
22:21:01linuxstbscorche|sh: I'm happy to start with a clean slate, so we have a clean set of WPSs with clear licenses.
22:21:12LloreanI thought we were going to require a license anyway
22:21:17LloreanWhich was part of why we were clean-slating
22:21:52crzyboysterCC-by-SA seems to be a good choice for the idea of rockbox themes :P
22:22:34toffe82gevaerts: writing or playing ;)
22:22:40scorche|shso then would we rather start with a clean slate (which will require keeping the old site active for a bit while people slowly copy), just toss the broken ones, or just toss the broken and ones without a license?
22:22:49disorganizermaybe we should make CC-by-SA a default license for all submitters if they dont explicitly state another license ;-)
22:22:53gevaertstoffe82: assembling. A real one
22:23:17crzyboysterdisorganizer: That's a good idea...
22:24:05scorche|shdisorganizer: crzyboyster this has already long since been debated and decided that it will be so
22:24:16disorganizergood to know :-)
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22:24:35linuxstbscorche|sh: I'm not against automatically transferring any theme that already has a clear license, and any other information the new site is asking for - are there themes that meet that criteria?
22:24:47LloreanAlright, who keeps unlocking the m:robe 100 thread? :-P
22:25:27scorche|shlinuxstb: i would have to double check my fields...
22:26:47disorganizerlinuxstb: i get a segfault now with your hack :-(
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22:29:55kugelhmm, nls_web seemed to be correct
22:30:03kugel , keywords change in my svn tree
22:30:14kugelbut I don't know why. I'm not doing that
22:30:16Horscht"Implement Support for Apple Accessories" didn't someone create a driver a few weeks ago?
22:30:37LloreanHorscht: The very, very beginnings of one.
22:31:32Horschtah, ok
22:32:10 Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
22:32:12kugelDoes anyone know why my keywords change? I load the tockbox source onto a fat32 drive, and leave it untouched. The only thing I do is copy the source from that directory (rockbox_svn) into other directories using rsync
22:34:48 Quit ol_schoola_ ()
22:34:53amiconnlinuxstb: Your status bar idea goes a bit too far for my taste
22:35:22amiconnBut then, I have an idea that I'll probably implement soon, driven by my M3 porting effort:
22:35:49amiconnThe M3 has a multi-colour LED which is meant for status display on the main unit (since it has no lcd, that makes sense)
22:36:22amiconnMy idea is to implement a simple status display api that will be called by all major areas of rockbox
22:37:04disorganizer@ linuxstb : sorry, works now. dont know for sure why it happened. screenshot will follow
22:37:16amiconnIt will come in 3 incarnations: The M3 will use its multi-colour LED.
22:38:23amiconnArchos recorders won't do anything in most screens, just for recording it will "re-assign" its red LED. That's currently handled by the recording screen itself (red LED is flashing when ready to record, and lit while recording. In all other screens it's used as HDD LED), but the idea is that the screen itself does need to do as little as possible
22:38:25disorganizer@ linuxstb : link to screenshot which really look neat while browsing the playlist. only scrolling line dont work in the wps fields, but its far enough for me
22:38:46amiconnThe third incarnation will be the player, where it will handle the various status icons on the LCD
22:39:14amiconnThis way the special cases for the Player will become less again
22:39:46amiconnOn all target where we don't have special status display methods, the function for setting it will just fold to an empty macro, so no loss at all
22:39:52*scorche|sh wonders about a morse code option for the M3's LED ;)
22:40:02amiconnDoes that sound like a feasible idea?
22:40:23scorche|shamiconn: is there an M3L?
22:40:43amiconnSame system as with the other coldfire-based iaudios
22:41:02disorganizerhow can i debug where a segfault comes from?
22:41:11disorganizer(in vmware dev-env that is)
22:41:17amiconnThe M3 comes in 3 flavours: M3 20GB (thin case), M3 40GB (thick case) and M3L 20GB (thick case)
22:41:19scorche|shsounds like we have a rival for the M5L's runtime...
22:41:23*amiconn has a 40GB
22:41:43amiconnI doubt that the M3L will exceed the M5L runtime
22:42:35amiconnSure, it has no lcd, but a monochrome lcd needs very little power. But the M3 has MCF5249 (1.8V core voltage), while the M5 (and X5) has MCF5250 (1.2V core voltage)
22:43:19 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
22:43:45amiconnDevelopment wise, the M3 feels more like an H1x0 than an iaudio. MCF5249, and no PCF50606 PMU, that means no RTC and a special button/battery ADC
22:44:36amiconnAlso, when LED status gets implemented, runtime will be reduced a bit (right now rockbox just disables the LED)
22:44:48disorganizer@ linuxstb : i get the following segfault when selecting another song from the playlist: :-) just for information though
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22:47:13 Quit spiorf ("Non so cosa voglio, ma lo riconosco se lo vedo")
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22:47:26ItalianPianisthappy easter everyone
22:47:30 Join spiorf [0] (
22:47:46scorche|shis anyone going to put together a quick template form for GSoC applicants real quick?
22:49:01markunItalianPianist: you too
22:49:48ItalianPianistgreat news: you asked for xrick witouth hardcoded rom data.... i did it.
22:50:43ItalianPianistnow i think it's time to talk with linuxstb or other "gurus" how it's to better release it...
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22:53:43pixelmalinuxstb: should I take care about the rest of the cabbiev2 versions, greyscale is almost ready to commit (after some sim runs) and I think the monochrome one "just" need to be converted?
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22:54:02*Genesis bought an cowon D2 :)
22:54:02linuxstbamiconn: I'm not sure I understand your proposal fully... How do you see it interacting with the "normal" (i.e. bitmap) status bar? Would the current status bar code just be changed to get the status of things via your new API?
22:54:12pixelma*ones (Archos and M:Robe 100)
22:54:21 Quit BobShield (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:54:39linuxstbpixelma: I'm very happy to leave them to you... But I don't think there are many left now.
22:55:54pixelmanot sure I understand what you want to say with that :)
22:55:55amiconnlinuxstb: Not at all. This is nothing that will replace the status bar
22:56:17linuxstbamiconn: So it wouldn't conflict with my proposal for the status bar?
22:56:24amiconnBut the player might very well end up with no status bar at all, handling everything at firmware level
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22:57:16amiconnMy proposal deals mainly with icon-like status (like playback, paused playback, recording, fm radio, browsing etc)
22:57:39amiconnBut I think it could even be extended to level-like status displays, i.e. volume and battery level
22:57:40linuxstbItalianPianist: Have you spoken to the xrick author? IMO the nicest solution (for all xrick ports, including the original) would be to separate the code (which could then be GPL'd) with the data, and make them available as separate downloads.
22:58:27linuxstbItalianPianist: The xrick author is obviously happy to distribute the (C) data, so could host the data download on his site.
22:58:34amiconnThen on player, the power management code would set the battery status, the audio driver would set the volume status, and the app layer wouldn't have to care about them any more
23:00:02amiconnThe drawback of this idea would be that the status displays can't be hijacked easily anymore (iirc the checssclock uses the Play & Pause icons on Player)
23:00:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:01:32ItalianPianisti did exactly what you suggested me: created separated graphics.dat file. I didn't ask him if he wants to distribute the file on his file, yet.
23:01:34 Quit Soap_ (Remote closed the connection)
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23:01:47linuxstbSo currently, the apps statusbar code sets the icons on the player, but you're proposing that the firmware drivers (power, audio) will set them directly?
23:01:48ItalianPianist*on his site
23:02:33amiconnlinuxstb: Yes. I think that the main advantage would be that the app layer wouldn't have to care much about special status display methods on a minority of targets
23:03:11amiconnI mean, if we have a themable status bar, we could still have it even on charcell, but the firmware layer would handle the icons outside the main display area
23:04:05 Quit BigMac ("Leaving")
23:04:15linuxstbThat sounds sensible.
23:04:27amiconnSo a Player WPS could still show numeric battery values with your idea, but you don't need to invent special tags for icons, leds etc
23:05:00amiconnThe same way, we can have the soft disk activity icon on all targets. The hardware LED (if any) will be handled at the firmware layer
23:05:15amiconnSame for charging led etc etc
23:05:51 Quit Horscht ("User was distributing pornography on server; system seized by FBI")
23:06:25ItalianPianistnow let me know how do I have to "prepare" source file... I mean if i have to put $id comment header, which licence to choose to make you easily integrate with rockbox source files
23:06:48 Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht)
23:06:52linuxstbItalianPianist: You can't just choose a license - you have to follow xrick's license...
23:07:40pixelmalinuxstb: I also wanted to ask you again which version of the Iaudio remote WPS is better (maybe more on the safe side) - the one with the two viewports?
23:07:53*amiconn is at 169fps on M3 now :)
23:08:05 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
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23:08:49linuxstbpixelma: Yes - the two viewports is better IMO. The first one had problems where the conditionals were causing the text to be cleared.
23:09:27ItalianPianist(ok so i assume i'll copy all rockbox license inside readme). About the source file comments? I followed coding rules, but dunno if i have to put $id header comment in every source file...
23:10:58pixelmalinuxstb: thanks, I'll take the two viewport version then
23:11:30BigBambiItalianPianist: How is the Rockbox licence relevant to what licence xrick is released under?
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23:13:13amiconn...while still having a glitch-free display, that is. I could even make the transfer reach ~200fps, but then the display would be garbled. It's not an out-of specs problem with the lcd controller (that could go up to 16MHz transfer, equalling ~650fps), but with signal runtime on the wire and/or signla attenuation at high frequencies
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23:15:09amiconnFor comparison: the svn code just reaches ~95fps
23:15:19ItalianPianist@BigBambi: ...???? I didn't understood what you mean...
23:15:55*amiconn needs faaast lcd transfers for the greyscale lib
23:16:20BigBambiItalianPianist: Why are you copying the rockbox licence inside the readme? The licence that your port is under is governed by the licence of xrick, not the rockbox licence
23:16:23ItalianPianistah ok i misread linuxstb sentence
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23:23:01ItalianPianistbasically xrick is released in the "spirit of GPL" so first of all i don't know if i can really release it under any license. Second, i think i can release the code i wrote (i mean the strictly rockbox related one) in some form of license: that's why I asked which one to choose from, to make you have no problems in integrating into rockbox
23:24:51linuxstbItalianPianist: Yes, that's why I suggested you speak to the xrick author. The cleanest solution would be for him to remove the data from his version, and GPL his source.
23:25:32linuxstbItalianPianist: Maybe you could offer him a patch to xrick that does that...
23:26:55ItalianPianistmmm yeah I hope he will answer me soon. :P
23:28:12*pixelma sighs, the icons still don't show up with the two viewports version of the new Iaudio remote WPS in an M5 sim
23:29:27linuxstbpixelma: Are they definitely the right format bmps? e.g. if you comment out all other lines in the WPS, do they show?
23:30:00pixelmayes, if I comment out the "text" viewport, I get the icons
23:30:44linuxstbI'm happy to have a look, if you want to pastebin the .wps, or give me the whole thing as a zip
23:31:03pixelmaand the console shows that it loads the files correctly
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23:39:27 Join ChAoS [0] (n=44e4e61c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:44:59ChAoSI am having problems installing rockbox with RBUtil I have the 1.0.4 windows version and i can pick my sans e200 from the config and pick the drive without issue. But when I go to the quick start and pick Complete Installation I get a network error: host not found. I can open a browser and go to it, no proxy and proxy setting in RBUtil reflect that.
23:45:24ChAoSanyone have any suggestions?
23:45:25linuxstbAre you sure the error says ?
23:45:41ChAoSpossitive.. Have it open right now.
23:45:49linuxstbIt should be
23:45:53ChAoSwel.. ok sorry it is spelt correctlyt there
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23:46:05BigBambiThings like that are quite important...
23:46:19ChAoSthe error shows a valid url that I can go to in FireFox.
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23:46:43BigBambiDo you have any proxies set in IE?
23:46:57ChAoSnope... never had this machine where a proxie was required..
23:47:29ChAoSI can go to the url in IE.
23:47:38 Quit DefineByte ("Bye all")
23:48:54BigBambiChAoS: Do the individual install bootloader and install build options work on the next tab?
23:49:40 Join DefineByte [0] (
23:49:47ChAoSsimilar error excetp with instead of download....
23:50:05 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
23:50:24BigBambiChAoS: For which option?
23:50:54ChAoStop one.. install the bootloader
23:51:17BigBambiChAoS: What is the version of the Sansa firmware you have installed?
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