| 00:00:06 | disorganizer | we could rotate viewports dynamically on the rwps |
| 00:00:14 | linuxstb | disorganizer: Remember Rockbox runs on DAPs, not graphic workstations... |
| 00:00:25 | linuxstb | And battery life is valuable ;) |
| 00:00:40 | * | disorganizer wants a 3d wps |
| 00:00:53 | amiconn | disorganizer: You can't easily rotate graphics, *especially* not on low-depth displays |
| 00:00:57 | Llorean | linuxstb: You must admit it'd solve the problem for people wanting portrait vs landscape displays. :-P |
| 00:01:39 | disorganizer | well, to be serious: 90deg rotation could be easy by just swapping x+y values in the viewport drawing routines |
| 00:01:56 | | Join cbr|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130) |
| 00:02:24 | | Quit matsl ("Leaving") |
| 00:02:26 | linuxstb | There are no "viewport drawing functions" - just LCD drawing functions. And they're designed to draw in the native direction. |
| 00:02:35 | disorganizer | it may be needed to do a lcdwidth-y and lcdheight-x on some target depending on usability |
| 00:02:47 | | Quit moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:03:03 | amiconn | disorganizer: Check the drawing functions. It is *far* more complicated than you might think to rotate stuff |
| 00:03:41 | amiconn | Drawing isn't done pixel-by-pixel - that would be far too slow on practically any target |
| 00:04:09 | * | disorganizer admits he has no clue about coding and just talks as a user here :-) hoping to bring in new ideas |
| 00:05:07 | disorganizer | sounds so easy :-( on first thought ( @jdgordon: like making a backup copy of the config ) |
| 00:05:14 | | Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:05:16 | | Quit jas6180 (Connection timed out) |
| 00:05:43 | amiconn | disorganizer: The idea isn't new at all, and was discussed numerous times |
| 00:05:50 | | Quit desowin () |
| 00:06:21 | disorganizer | amiconn: it was new to me :-) |
| 00:07:39 | * | disorganizer likes to go on people's nerves |
| 00:08:02 | linuxstb | I think runtime rotation could be done via the screens API (replacing the drawing functions with their rotated equivalents) - if all of Rockbox fully used the screens API. But I'm not convinced the feature is worth the effort - at least I won't attempt it... |
| 00:08:43 | amiconn | That means duplicating all drawing code - *and* all native bitmaps |
| 00:09:08 | amiconn | (unless you're willing to accept a serious performance drop in the rotated case) |
| 00:09:11 | Bagder | arbitrary rotation! |
| 00:09:13 | BigBambi | disorganizer: Why? |
| 00:09:16 | linuxstb | Yes, you would duplicate the drawing code. The bitmaps wouldn't need to be duplicated though - just less efficient in one direction... |
| 00:09:34 | amiconn | s/less/far less/ |
| 00:09:39 | disorganizer | nevertheless it would be an easy way to allow vertical progress bars and peakmeters :-) |
| 00:09:45 | disorganizer | BigBambi: why what? |
| 00:09:55 | linuxstb | disorganizer: No, it would be the hard way to implement those... |
| 00:09:57 | amiconn | Did you have a look at the bitmap drawing optimisations in the packed pixel case? |
| 00:10:01 | BigBambi | Why do you like to annoy people? What does it achieve? |
| 00:10:44 | disorganizer | BigBambi: hopefully i dont annoy them. going on other peoples nerves is not exactly annoying them ;-) just a tiny bit different |
| 00:10:54 | * | disorganizer hopes he doesnt annoy any1 here? |
| 00:10:55 | BigBambi | No, it is the same thing |
| 00:11:09 | BigBambi | Getting on someone's nerves means annoying them |
| 00:11:15 | scorche|sh | disorganizer: by saying "any1", i can now say that you most certainly do :) |
| 00:11:38 | linuxstb | amiconn: OK, I accept it's far less efficient. But that could be dealt with, e.g. by possibly rotating any loaded bitmaps in-place when rotating the screen. |
| 00:11:45 | disorganizer | scorche: that was my personal ping to you ;-) like the cul8r when i left work |
| 00:12:14 | BigBambi | It annoys many more people than scorche|sh |
| 00:12:21 | * | linuxstb isn't sure how many bitmaps we would be dealing with, or if performance would be an issue (outside the fonts) |
| 00:12:23 | amiconn | linuxstb: That would require a little slack ram at the end of each bitmap. The rotated bitmap might need more ram depending on its x and y dimension |
| 00:12:35 | amiconn | And what about the compiled-in bitmaps? |
| 00:12:59 | linuxstb | amiconn: Is performance an issue for those? e.g. the usb logo? |
| 00:13:13 | amiconn | built-in icons, .... |
| 00:13:13 | * | disorganizer didnt know fun was not on topic in here ;-) |
| 00:13:35 | BigBambi | disorganizer: Rockbox is on topic |
| 00:13:55 | BigBambi | #rockbox-community is for fun |
| 00:14:05 | linuxstb | amiconn: These problems are solvable though IMO. But as I said, I don't think the feature is worth the effort... |
| 00:14:19 | linuxstb | So there's no need to convince me not to do it ;) |
| 00:15:18 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 00:16:11 | * | linuxstb wonders how stripwax's cube hacking is coming along |
| 00:16:31 | | Join framo [0] (n=framo@bb-87-80-66-156.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 00:16:47 | preglow | cube hacking? |
| 00:16:50 | preglow | gourad shading? :> |
| 00:17:10 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf () |
| 00:17:26 | linuxstb | He was talking about the ships from Elite last time I spoke to him... |
| 00:17:28 | * | stripwax has a cobra mk3 spinning on his ipod :) |
| 00:17:39 | Shaid | haha |
| 00:17:46 | stripwax | flat shading still though. hardly magic.. |
| 00:17:59 | | Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=chatzill@c-24-0-218-198.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:19:01 | | Quit CyBergRind|w (Connection timed out) |
| 00:19:34 | stripwax | but (if I ever have time) I'd add a simple (flat) light source shader . gouraud would be .. a bit more work .. |
| 00:19:45 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 00:20:14 | Shaid | I have a feeling the lack of floating points would make it a little harder. |
| 00:20:39 | stripwax | I was looking at some interesting arm routines for computing 1/sqrt using fixed point math.. |
| 00:21:11 | stripwax | wasn't Descent written using fixed point math or did I dream that? |
| 00:21:20 | Shaid | no idea |
| 00:21:21 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p54BF44F8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:21:23 | Shaid | go grab the source and see |
| 00:21:51 | stripwax | Is USB storage enabled in a standard build? |
| 00:22:09 | disorganizer | got to go, good night to all of you |
| 00:22:29 | stripwax | On my local build I can see that my ipod 5g is requesting 500ma, I think I saw someone asking about that suggesting that it wasn't the case |
| 00:22:47 | preglow | stripwax: well, if you have lambert shading with a proper light source, gourad shading isn't much more work |
| 00:23:08 | | Part disorganizer |
| 00:23:23 | stripwax | preglow - indeed. I haven't got lambert shading :) |
| 00:23:47 | preglow | aha :) |
| 00:23:55 | preglow | and then, after that, phong! |
| 00:23:56 | preglow | :D |
| 00:24:32 | * | stripwax chuckles |
| 00:25:19 | | Join `Tanner [0] (n=Night@74-128-144-119.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 00:25:24 | | Join LambdaCalculus3 [0] (n=1800dac6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-732d4a55a8e34ef8) |
| 00:25:41 | shotofadds | stripwax: there has been a fixed-point Descent, because I remember an Acorn (RISC OS) version being released some years ago. wonder if there's an open-source version available.... |
| 00:25:44 | jhMikeS | what, no ray tracing? |
| 00:25:56 | `Tanner | Can i play music that i purchased from the iTunes store while running Rockbox? |
| 00:26:08 | LambdaCalculus3 | `Tanner: Nope. |
| 00:26:15 | stripwax | Tanner - are they in unprotected mp3 format? |
| 00:26:27 | stripwax | or some other unprotected (no DRM) format? |
| 00:26:32 | `Tanner | Just a sec. |
| 00:27:33 | `Tanner | Meh. Mpeg-4 Audio file(Protected) is what i get... Dam |
| 00:28:20 | | Join cool_walking_ [0] (n=notroot@203-59-129-195.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:28:26 | stripwax | Tanner - yep - I'm afraid you'll be out of luck in Rockbox with those |
| 00:29:01 | `Tanner | Alright. But MP3 will work fine, right |
| 00:29:09 | linuxstb | right |
| 00:29:13 | LambdaCalculus3 | As long as they're DRM-free. |
| 00:29:22 | `Tanner | What does DRM stand for |
| 00:29:38 | LambdaCalculus3 | Digital Rights (Restrictions) Management. |
| 00:30:24 | `Tanner | When i boot into Rockbox, i won't see itunes purchased music., But when i boot back into standard iPod firmware, they will play? |
| 00:30:52 | LambdaCalculus3 | They'll still play in the iPod OF. |
| 00:30:59 | `Tanner | ok, Thanks. |
| 00:31:03 | LambdaCalculus3 | No problem. |
| 00:31:07 | | Quit `Tanner ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]") |
| 00:32:32 | | Quit shotofadds (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
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| 00:33:38 | | Quit `Tanner (Client Quit) |
| 00:34:32 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:34:36 | | Join MethoS-- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-213-223.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 00:35:34 | * | linuxstb looks for a volunteer to implement target-specific %V tag validation into checkwps |
| 00:35:44 | | Nick LambdaCalculus3 is now known as LambdaCalculus37 (n=1800dac6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-732d4a55a8e34ef8) |
| 00:36:21 | linuxstb | (and loading bitmaps to validate them with Rockbox's bmp loader and image buffer size...) |
| 00:36:29 | | Join [1]JordanG [0] (n=JordanG@69.43.65.27) |
| 00:36:49 | * | linuxstb suspects building 28 versions of checkwps will be simpler... |
| 00:37:13 | * | LambdaCalculus37 looks for a volunteer to help test FS #8595 |
| 00:38:18 | | Quit [1]JordanG (Client Quit) |
| 00:41:02 | | Quit waldo (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:42:45 | | Join [2]JordanG [0] (n=JordanG@69.43.65.27) |
| 00:43:35 | | Quit JordanG (Nick collision from services.) |
| 00:43:51 | | Nick [2]JordanG is now known as JordanG (n=JordanG@69.43.65.27) |
| 00:44:38 | Nico_P | linuxstb: can't you just accept screen dimensions as an argument to it? |
| 00:44:58 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Yes, but the parser is full of #ifdefs, not if()s... |
| 00:45:21 | linuxstb | So I think it would get very messy... |
| 00:45:30 | Nico_P | oh yes indeed |
| 00:47:27 | linuxstb | And looking at it, it's more than just the viewport tags - other parts of the parser are #ifdef'd out - e.g. for mono screens. |
| 00:47:32 | | Quit ender` (" If the art world was ran by the RIAA, you would have to lease special glasses if you wanted to see a painting. -- Rodney Ca") |
| 00:48:32 | linuxstb | So I think the only way to get 100% accurate parsing for rockbox-themes.org is to build target-specific versions... |
| 00:49:25 | linuxstb | Does anyone have any views on the WPS being rejected if bmps can't be loaded? |
| 00:49:45 | linuxstb | IIUC, currently missing bitmaps will just not be drawn. |
| 00:51:22 | | Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:51:55 | Nico_P | yes, you understand correctly |
| 00:52:31 | Nico_P | maybe a warning in checkwps would be good, but I don't think plainly rejecting the WPS on target is very nice |
| 00:53:03 | linuxstb | Why not? IMO that's just as broken as anything else being wrong... |
| 00:54:40 | Nico_P | it's not quite the same, because e.g. a missing end conditional could cause unexpected behaviour... in case of a missing picture there won't be any big problems |
| 00:54:57 | linuxstb | But it's still broken... |
| 00:55:12 | | Join Chaotic [0] (n=0cb22419@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e0bb8945f692155d) |
| 00:55:13 | linuxstb | i.e. not what the theme author intended. |
| 00:55:19 | | Quit bluebrother ("leaving") |
| 00:55:25 | Nico_P | true |
| 00:55:27 | | Join stripwax_ [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 00:55:53 | * | Llorean likes "if it's broken, reject it" |
| 00:55:59 | Llorean | I don't like silent failures. |
| 00:56:28 | Chaotic | Ok, so I just got back from my meeting, and was wondering if anyone would mind helping me out with my iPod 4G Photo power problem |
| 00:56:59 | linuxstb | Chaotic: I wasn't paying close attention when you were first here, but do you get problems when running the Apple firmware? |
| 00:57:23 | Chaotic | linuxstb: No, it runs fine with Apple firmware |
| 00:57:38 | | Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]") |
| 00:58:37 | Chaotic | linuxstb: I can recap the problem if needed |
| 00:59:20 | | Quit DerDome ("Leaving.") |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:34 | Chaotic | it's actually charging now, and seems to be ok. I'm worried that it won't charge when I listen to music, which makes all the useful features of Rockbox out of my grasp. I almost exclusively listen to my ipod in the car whilst driving, plugged into a Monster radio transmitter/charger |
| 01:01:09 | | Quit ol_schoola_ () |
| 01:01:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:01:40 | | Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:02:28 | | Join piga [0] (n=leonardo@200-161-96-80.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 01:03:06 | linuxstb | Chaotic: I don't think it's anything you're doing wrong - Rockbox is known to not charge correctly from USB on the ipods. |
| 01:03:19 | | Join ol_schoola [0] (n=meatwad@c-67-167-20-91.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:03:59 | Chaotic | linuxstx: I'm actually charging with the apple wall outlet adapter. Would that have the same problem? |
| 01:04:26 | | Quit ol_schoola (Client Quit) |
| 01:04:46 | Chaotic | linuxstb: I'm actually charging with the apple wall outlet adapter. Would that have the same problem? |
| 01:05:24 | linuxstb | Chaotic: It depends if it connects to the ipod's USB or Firewire power pins. |
| 01:06:46 | Chaotic | linuxstb: ok. It is a USB cable that plugs into the square power plug. So that may be the issue. I'll have to check the power in the car adapter before and after a commute |
| 01:07:21 | Chaotic | linuxstb: Thanks for your help on that, it's certainly a drawback, but probably a livable one |
| 01:08:02 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@athedsl-4425001.home.otenet.gr) |
| 01:08:11 | Chaotic | linuxstb: I'm going to ask one more question to the main channel, I don't want to monopolize your time. Thanks again. |
| 01:10:22 | Chaotic | So one last newbie question: When I plug my 4G iPod Photo in, it shows a charging icon. If I try to shut it down while plugged in, it will turn off, then immediately show the non-backlit apple logo, then the backlit apple logo, and boot back into Rockbox |
| 01:11:18 | Chaotic | it seems that there's no way for me to shut it down and still have it charge. If I unplug it, I can shut it down, but then it boots again the moment I plug it in. Is this expected behavior? I couldn't find the answer in the manual nor forum |
| 01:12:08 | Shaid | that's expected behaviour |
| 01:12:31 | | Join RexDart [0] (n=cd9cbcfe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-67cc55a07a78d4b7) |
| 01:12:36 | Chaotic | great. That explains a lot. Thanks Shaid & linuxstb! |
| 01:12:50 | Shaid | if you boot into the original firmware you can do what you're after |
| 01:13:00 | Shaid | but then to get back to rockbox you'll need to do a reboot |
| 01:13:01 | Chaotic | I can't seem to do that though |
| 01:13:44 | Chaotic | I slide the hold button when I see the apple logo, but it just says "cleared" on the rockbox main page but doesn't reboot to the apple firmware |
| 01:13:45 | | Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:13:59 | Shaid | you're doing it too late |
| 01:14:16 | Shaid | and that's the old method to boot into the OF |
| 01:14:24 | Shaid | nowdays you hold down menu straight after powering on |
| 01:14:42 | Shaid | or possibly I'm confused |
| 01:14:47 | Chaotic | Ah! Ok, was confused from the forum then. I'll give that a shot later |
| 01:14:50 | Shaid | http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipod4gray/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-280003.1.2 |
| 01:15:02 | | Quit stripwax_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:15:30 | Chaotic | yeah, I must be doing it too late |
| 01:16:52 | | Join fasmaie [0] (n=yohann@c-98-216-170-85.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:16:57 | Chaotic | yep, that worked |
| 01:17:20 | Chaotic | Thanks again! Most heplful IRC channel I've been on in years! |
| 01:17:27 | | Part toffe82 |
| 01:17:47 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@rockbox/developer/barrywardell) |
| 01:19:26 | Chaotic | I'm going to take off. Thanks again Shaid and linuxstb |
| 01:19:39 | Shaid | You're welcome, Chaotic |
| 01:19:53 | | Quit Chaotic ("CGI:IRC") |
| 01:21:23 | Nico_P | linuxstb: I don't feel very strongly about the parser rejecting or not rejecting the WPS if there are too many pictures. It makes just as much sense to me to reject it... feel free to implement it that way ;) |
| 01:21:33 | | Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu) |
| 01:22:01 | | Join moos [0] (i=moos@m170.net81-66-158.noos.fr) |
| 01:22:26 | | Quit ompaul (Client Quit) |
| 01:23:40 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I agree (for Rockbox itself), but I think rockbox-themes.org needs to reject such themes. So it's easier to just make Rockbox do the same thing. |
| 01:24:14 | Nico_P | probably |
| 01:24:55 | linuxstb | We'll need to take care of case sensitivity somehow though - assuming rockbox-themes.org is going to a Unix server... |
| 01:25:03 | linuxstb | (in filenames) |
| 01:25:26 | RexDart | Hmmm...is there some sort of problem with rockbox when switching between codecs for different filetypes in a playlist? |
| 01:25:28 | linuxstb | But I guess theme authors should respect that anyway - for people using sims on Unix |
| 01:25:33 | RexDart | My 5thG keeps crashing |
| 01:25:45 | RexDart | Songs stutter and it locks up totally |
| 01:26:12 | linuxstb | RexDart: How old is your Rockbox install? |
| 01:26:17 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 01:26:20 | RexDart | let me ask it |
| 01:26:31 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@rockbox/developer/barrywardell) |
| 01:26:43 | RexDart | quoth the rockbox: "16667-080314" |
| 01:27:04 | scorche|sh | RexDart: what other channel were you talkng about earlier? |
| 01:27:17 | linuxstb | That's quite old in Rockbox terms - can you update to the latest current build and test if it still happens? |
| 01:27:46 | RexDart | Will do. |
| 01:28:24 | linuxstb | RexDart: Something else to check is if your filesystem is free of errors (e.g. with chkdsk or fsck) |
| 01:28:30 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)") |
| 01:28:42 | RexDart | also good to know |
| 01:28:44 | RexDart | thanks |
| 01:30:22 | | Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world") |
| 01:31:19 | RexDart | I wonder if rockbox will ever progress to the point where it has user-selectable navigation styles, like you could choose for it to behave like a rio carbon or something |
| 01:31:26 | Nico_P | linuxstb: checkwps loads files case-insensitively on windows? |
| 01:32:11 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 01:32:17 | | Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 01:32:17 | linuxstb | Nico_P: No, Windows does... |
| 01:32:33 | linuxstb | (IIUC...) |
| 01:32:41 | Llorean | RexDart: That sounds like customizable buttons, something we don't want. |
| 01:32:51 | Nico_P | what ways do we have of making it case sensitive there? |
| 01:33:10 | RexDart | Customizable buttons? |
| 01:33:18 | RexDart | oh, input method? |
| 01:33:27 | Llorean | RexDart: Well, what do you mean by "navigation styles" other than "navigating the UI"? |
| 01:33:47 | RexDart | the entire layout of the UI & how it's navigated |
| 01:33:58 | Llorean | Uhm... |
| 01:34:07 | Llorean | So, "which buttons are used to get around it"? |
| 01:34:14 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I guess we could make it scan a directory and do its own filename comparison... |
| 01:34:29 | Llorean | The "layout" as it were is just visual, not actually an aspect of navigation. |
| 01:34:51 | Llorean | But customizing what you press to get from place to place isn't going to happen in the official biuld. |
| 01:35:04 | RexDart | hmm |
| 01:35:06 | RexDart | too bd |
| 01:35:08 | RexDart | bad |
| 01:35:10 | | Quit RexDart ("CGI:IRC") |
| 01:35:32 | Nico_P | hmm yeah, that would work I guess |
| 01:35:55 | Nico_P | the dir shouldn't be too big either |
| 01:37:20 | | Quit XavierGr () |
| 01:37:44 | | Join Cillian [0] (n=Cillian@host86-136-254-88.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 01:38:36 | Cillian | Is it possible to alter the backlight brightness on a 5g ipod video in current rockbox software, or would it be reasonably trivial for me to add code to do that? |
| 01:39:38 | Cillian | (I figure it's possible from software because of the backlight fade in/out options) |
| 01:40:31 | linuxstb | Yes, there's a backlight brightness setting |
| 01:41:30 | Cillian | Where abouts? (I've never seen one, so either it's not in my build or I'm looking in teh wrong place) |
| 01:41:43 | linuxstb | Under LCD settings I would guess |
| 01:42:10 | linuxstb | Assuming you're running a recent Rockbox build - I think it was added about 6 months ago... |
| 01:42:38 | Cillian | Ah |
| 01:42:42 | Cillian | Mine might well be older than that |
| 01:42:50 | Cillian | And I certainly don't have that in LCD settings |
| 01:43:00 | amiconn | 4 months ago |
| 01:43:13 | Cillian | Ok, thanks for the help |
| 01:43:16 | amiconn | 12 Nov 2007 to be precise |
| 01:43:40 | * | linuxstb was only about 6 weeks out... |
| 01:44:08 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 01:44:15 | Shaid | you might need to reset your settings, too |
| 01:44:24 | | Join perrikwp [0] (i=4aa794a0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4cb2a5962a532a81) |
| 01:44:30 | Shaid | I had to before the backlight brightness setting took effect. |
| 01:44:33 | linuxstb | amiconn: As you're here, you can save me reading the code - does the bmp loader return an error if there is no room to load the bitmap, or does it truncate and return success? |
| 01:45:13 | * | linuxstb goes to read the code... |
| 01:45:30 | | Quit Rincewind ("bye") |
| 01:45:38 | | Join `Tanner [0] (n=Night@74-128-144-119.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 01:45:48 | amiconn | It returns various errors depending on what goes wrong |
| 01:46:01 | `Tanner | Can i play .FLV video files on my ipod while running rock box? |
| 01:46:09 | * | Cillian doubts it |
| 01:46:10 | Shaid | nope |
| 01:46:17 | `Tanner | Alright, thought so. |
| 01:46:20 | `Tanner | Thanks |
| 01:46:20 | linuxstb | Hmm... I can't make checkwps fail when loading too many bitmaps... |
| 01:46:27 | Cillian | Is there any video playback other than raw mpg on ipods? |
| 01:46:28 | amiconn | Works similar to read() and such - on success, it returns the amount of memory taken. rc <0 means error |
| 01:46:58 | barrywardell | hmmm. the current svn e200 bootloader no longer boots the of for some reason |
| 01:47:51 | amiconn | linuxstb: What does 'too many' have to do with the loader? |
| 01:47:53 | barrywardell | anyone have any suggestions as to which commit might have caused it? |
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| 01:48:06 | Nico_P | linuxstb: I'm pretty sure the loading won't even be attempted ig there isn't enough space to store the bitmap |
| 01:48:36 | | Part _caotic_ |
| 01:48:42 | | Quit JordanG (Connection timed out) |
| 01:49:15 | `Tanner | Can i play .WMV videos on my ipod while running RockBox ? |
| 01:49:22 | Shaid | nope |
| 01:49:25 | Shaid | just mpgs |
| 01:49:30 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 01:49:37 | Llorean | `Tanner: I would strongly recommend you check out the manual. |
| 01:49:51 | linuxstb | amiconn: I mean too much data for the image buffer... |
| 01:49:54 | `Tanner | lol, alright. |
| 01:51:46 | amiconn | linuxstb: Did you take into account that the image is converted to the internal pixel format on load? |
| 01:52:53 | linuxstb | It's my mistake - I thought I was loading 26 full-screen images, but the filename was misleading me, and they're not full-screen... |
| 01:53:40 | amiconn | linuxstb: I just discovered a WPS redraw bug |
| 01:54:12 | amiconn | It looks like that on track change, the whole display is cleared, so that the status bar disappears for a fraction of a second |
| 01:54:43 | linuxstb | Do you think that's new? I've a feeling I've seen that in the past (but may be mistaken) |
| 01:54:45 | amiconn | Happens on main & remote, in parallel. Observed on X5 |
| 01:54:55 | amiconn | Never observed it before |
| 01:55:48 | linuxstb | No, you're right, I think I've added an lcd_clear_viewport() for each viewport, and the default viewport includes the statusbar area (with a ymargin) - that needs fixing. |
| 01:56:09 | `Tanner | If an ipod nano is set up for a mac, is there any way to change that to pc ? |
| 01:56:14 | amiconn | You didn't test a wps with the statusbar enabled, did you? |
| 01:56:40 | Llorean | `Tanner: Restore with a PC version of iTunes, or follow the conversion instructions in our wiki |
| 01:57:00 | amiconn | Also, the wps code used to just redraw the parts which needed redraw, saving resources this way... |
| 01:57:01 | `Tanner | Thanks Llorean. You've been a great help. |
| 01:57:02 | linuxstb | I did, but not patiently enough to wait for track changes. Early versions of my patch had bugs when the statusbar was enabled/disabled. |
| 01:58:43 | linuxstb | amiconn: I don't really understand the drawing code in the WPS, but will need to if I continue with my statusbar patch. So I'll definitely try and make it more efficient if I continue work on it. |
| 01:59:34 | linuxstb | Any idea when the partial redraw was removed? i.e. was it at the time of any particular change/new feature? |
| 02:00 |
| 02:01:12 | | Quit `Tanner ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]") |
| 02:04:44 | Cillian | hm |
| 02:05:07 | Cillian | latest daily rockbox, and my ipod sits on the loader2 loading screen with the bar full, spinning the harddrive |
| 02:05:13 | Cillian | doing not much else |
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| 02:06:29 | Llorean | Cillian: Well, loader2 isn't our software. If it's stopping while in loader2, I suggest you try our loader and see if everything works. |
| 02:07:22 | Cillian | I realise that, I was just wondering if it was something someone else had come across (Since it's the rockbox update that triggered it) |
| 02:09:04 | linuxstb | Cillian: If you're running a very old loader2 (and were also running an older version of Rockbox), you should update loader2 as well. Or as Llorean suggested, just use the Rockbox bootloader. |
| 02:09:42 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:09:57 | Cillian | It is indeed an ancient loader2 |
| 02:10:46 | Cillian | * has an idea * |
| 02:10:49 | linuxstb | Then that's very likely the problem. |
| 02:10:56 | Cillian | rockbox can reload it's kernely .ipod file, right? |
| 02:11:00 | | Join stripwax_ [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 02:11:16 | linuxstb | Yes. |
| 02:11:27 | Cillian | Which has nothing to do with teh bootloader, when it does that? |
| 02:11:28 | | Quit jas6180_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:11:57 | | Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:12:09 | linuxstb | The problem is that the old loader2 doesn't initialise the second CPU core correctly when loading Rockbox - and there's nothing Rockbox can do about that later. |
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| 02:12:47 | Cillian | Ok, cheers |
| 02:13:17 | linuxstb | Older versions of Rockbox didn't use the second core, so it didn't matter. New versions do (a little) |
| 02:13:28 | Cillian | Cool |
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| 02:27:54 | | Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]") |
| 02:29:50 | barrywardell | looks like the bootloader problem came about with r16259 - disabling the hardware in PP502x |
| 02:30:25 | linuxstb | What bootloader problem? |
| 02:31:51 | Cillian | God, downloading 400KB files is painful |
| 02:34:38 | barrywardell | linuxstb: the sansa bootloaders don't load the of any more |
| 02:35:03 | barrywardell | I've tracked it down to that commit |
| 02:35:34 | * | linuxstb recalls asking if anyone had tested the bootloaders when that commit was made... |
| 02:37:40 | barrywardell | the hardware should probably not be disabled in the bootloader. much better to do it when rockbox starts up |
| 02:38:01 | barrywardell | or is that what it does already? I'm only just catching up with the changes now |
| 02:38:14 | | Quit stripwax_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:38:52 | Cillian | Guh, now loader2 fails to load even the old rockbox |
| 02:39:51 | JdGordon | barrywardell: that would explain my sansa problems... i installed rockbox svn on it the other day and cant get into the OF at all... |
| 02:39:59 | linuxstb | Cillian: I can't remember if that's expected, but why would you want to load an old Rockbox? |
| 02:40:40 | Cillian | Since the new one doesn't work either |
| 02:40:42 | Cillian | :P |
| 02:40:58 | barrywardell | JdGordon: reverting to r16258 makes everything work fine again. there's a lot of changes to look at it r16259 though |
| 02:41:09 | Cillian | Aha |
| 02:41:23 | Cillian | Looks like the new loader2 doesn't use 8.3 filesnames anymore - old one did |
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| 02:46:07 | Beta2K | CJRL 89.5 Mix FM |
| 02:46:07 | Beta2K | maps.google.ca |
| 02:46:07 | Beta2K | 128 Main Street South |
| 02:46:07 | DBUG | Sent KICK Beta2K to server |
| 02:46:07 | Beta2K | Kenora, ON P9N 1S9 |
| 02:46:08 | Kick | (#rockbox Beta2K :No flooding!) by logbot!n=bjst@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-37e745eea6f9c703 |
| 02:46:08 | | Join Beta2K [0] (n=Beta2K@cerberus.drazof.com) |
| 02:46:16 | Beta2K | oooops |
| 02:46:28 | Beta2K | I really need to make paste a different key |
| 02:46:32 | Beta2K | Sorry all |
| 02:46:45 | Cillian | Oh, wow, new rockbox is *sexy* |
| 02:46:50 | Cillian | Awesome work :) |
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| 02:49:04 | saratoga2 | barrywardell: I've not been able to update my sansa bootloader to try your new patch |
| 02:49:19 | saratoga2 | sansapatcher always failed |
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| 02:49:33 | barrywardell | which patch? and what error did sansapatcher give? |
| 02:49:49 | confetti | Just a quick question. Is rockbox anywhere near runnable on zune? |
| 02:49:54 | scorche | no |
| 02:50:14 | confetti | will it be? |
| 02:50:22 | scorche | it wont be with no one working on it |
| 02:50:30 | confetti | noone is? |
| 02:50:43 | confetti | sad. :( I don't know how or I probably would be ;) |
| 02:50:56 | | Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 02:51:05 | scorche | no...no one currently is actively working on the zunbe |
| 02:51:06 | linuxstb | Not that sad - there are 28 other devices Rockbox runs on, and more on the way... |
| 02:51:58 | confetti | no, not sad as a whole. rockbox isn't sad. it is sad that zune doesn't support it :( |
| 02:52:24 | | Quit saratoga22 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 02:52:29 | | Quit confetti (Client Quit) |
| 02:52:58 | saratoga2 | barrywardell: unfortunately i don't have the sansa in front of me so i can't double check, but when I last tried it I got some unspecific error about short write faililng if I remember correctly |
| 02:53:09 | saratoga2 | i looked through the source but couldn't see anything obviously wrong |
| 02:53:27 | saratoga2 | and i was able to flash it once before to the rockbox bootloader |
| 02:54:17 | saratoga2 | i wouldn't have asked without it in front of me, but i haven't seen you online in a while |
| 02:56:09 | barrywardell | saratoga2: which os were you using? |
| 02:56:36 | barrywardell | saratoga2: and was that complied from svn? or the one on the download server? |
| 02:56:38 | saratoga2 | i compiled the bootloader under Linux, but ran sansapatcher (downloaded from the website) under windows |
| 02:56:41 | kugel | Llorean: Why don't you want a reset list dimensions setting? There's a reset colours option. |
| 02:58:44 | barrywardell | saratoga2: that was with the -bl flag? |
| 02:58:54 | saratoga2 | barrywardell: yes |
| 02:59:19 | barrywardell | hmmm. I've never had that problem, but I never use windows so maybe that's a problem? |
| 02:59:31 | saratoga2 | i will find a linux box with USB tomorrow and try it there |
| 02:59:41 | saratoga2 | i just assumed it didn't matter |
| 02:59:41 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 02:59:52 | saratoga2 | great work on that patch though |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:03 | saratoga2 | i never understood why it made the OF take 2x as long to boot the way it is now |
| 03:00:04 | barrywardell | great. make sure to use a bl compiled before 16258 though |
| 03:00:46 | saratoga2 | are you looking into fixing that issue already? |
| 03:01:02 | barrywardell | I think I've found the problem |
| 03:01:32 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:01:38 | barrywardell | it's the usb init/detect in main-pp.c. removing it lets the of boot again! |
| 03:01:40 | saratoga2 | the USB thing? |
| 03:01:44 | saratoga2 | ah yeah! |
| 03:01:48 | saratoga2 | the OF turns it on by default |
| 03:01:58 | saratoga2 | so thats probably bad if it boots without it |
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| 03:02:45 | barrywardell | yeah, I'll see if I can isolate it further |
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| 03:06:32 | saratoga2 | barrywardell: also, the power measurements taken for that patch were in part done on my sansa using the rockbox bootloader |
| 03:06:47 | saratoga2 | i didn't even think of it at the time, but i wonder if it makes a difference if I use the Sandisk one |
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| 03:10:36 | barrywardell | saratoga2: it would be an interesting test to do if you have time some time |
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| 03:17:30 | barrywardell | I'm too tired to look at this further tonight. the problem gets fixed by removing the usb detection section in main-pp.c. I'll try to dig further tomorrow if nobody beats me to it. |
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| 03:20:08 | Synx_hm | Anyone having continued issues with rockbox on a 30gb IPOD video... over the course of an hour or two ill have to reboot my ipod 2 or 3 times from hardlocks, and sound issues |
| 03:20:17 | Synx_hm | that and my database keeps currupting |
| 03:20:38 | | Quit barrywardell () |
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| 03:21:16 | saratoga2 | Synx_hm: never heard of that, but i don't have an ipod |
| 03:21:18 | | Quit saratoga2 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 03:22:04 | Synx_hm | ya i am not really sure whats going on, but it has been an ongoing problem :( And i have been updating to the latest build to see if that fix's it :( |
| 03:24:07 | Synx_hm | ive also had the misfortune of blowing out the firewire charging circuit on my ipod, so i can use all those nifty ipod battery packs, so i think it may be time to go back to stock firmware so i can get some more use out of this little guy |
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| 04:14:30 | Davide-NYC | JdGordon: ping |
| 04:14:54 | JdGordon | pong |
| 04:15:06 | Davide-NYC | Hey there. Any news on the WRS front? |
| 04:15:23 | JdGordon | no, that got pushed to the side im afraid |
| 04:15:32 | JdGordon | actually, totally forgot about it untill jkust now :p |
| 04:15:49 | * | Davide-NYC falls off of his chair |
| 04:16:12 | Davide-NYC | I've been making a concerted effort to leave you alone about it. |
| 04:16:17 | Davide-NYC | :) |
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| 04:16:22 | JdGordon | hehe |
| 04:17:12 | JdGordon | arg.. this is odd... I'm sure there was a theme problem with this patch last night.. seems to work fine now |
| 04:17:25 | * | JdGordon fucking retarted moron |
| 04:17:31 | Davide-NYC | lOL |
| 04:17:32 | JdGordon | forgot to repatch my tree :p |
| 04:18:12 | Davide-NYC | If you get back to working on the recording screens and could use a minion to test and/or do other small tasks let me know. |
| 04:18:36 | Davide-NYC | I'm willing to patch 'n' test on the targets available to me. |
| 04:19:03 | JdGordon | :) |
| 04:19:23 | JdGordon | i tihnk the rec code need more splitting up like was mentioned in the thread before a proper effort can be done |
| 04:20:23 | Davide-NYC | oh yeah, I forgot about that and that's probably why you forgot about the rewrite. |
| 04:20:29 | Davide-NYC | jhMikeS: ping |
| 04:20:35 | * | Davide-NYC ducks |
| 04:22:23 | Davide-NYC | general question: to run a text file like a batch file in cygwin what do I do:? |
| 04:22:54 | jas6180 | just do ./example.sh |
| 04:22:55 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:23:05 | Davide-NYC | thanks |
| 04:23:15 | jas6180 | and if it tells you permission denied, chmod u+x example.sh first |
| 04:26:19 | Davide-NYC | Bad line endings! Saved as unix filetype and viola! |
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| 04:28:43 | Jayden|AWAY | Anyone here using foobar2000 with a rockboxed iPod? |
| 04:30:21 | Jayden|AWAY | Fruitless |
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| 04:32:55 | krazykit | Jayden|AWAY, people might not always be around to answer right away. however, that question is offtopic, most likely, as no rockbox code is running when you'd be syncing with foobar |
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| 04:34:34 | Jayden|AWAY | Ok sorry, then how can I copy over FLAC files? |
| 04:34:45 | | Quit Fuxxer (Client Quit) |
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| 04:34:59 | jas6180 | the same way you copy over other kinds of files, most likely |
| 04:35:02 | | Quit Fuxxer (Client Quit) |
| 04:35:24 | Jayden|AWAY | Without it being in disk mode... |
| 04:36:15 | scorche | why would it not be in disk mode? |
| 04:36:32 | scorche | your computer will not even see it if you are not in disk mode... |
| 04:37:19 | Jayden|AWAY | Nvm. I phrased the question poorly. I found my answer on a forum, discussing how to take it out of MTP |
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| 04:38:12 | scorche | ipods dont have MTP |
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| 04:44:16 | JdGordon | is the delta table broken? |
| 04:44:34 | JdGordon | groan, very red :p |
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| 04:55:39 | *** | Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )' |
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| 04:55:46 | | Join ze [0] (i=ze@cpe-76-175-22-254.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 04:55:46 | Garbanian | anyone alive? |
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| 04:56:27 | Mode | "#rockbox -o logbot " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 04:56:39 | Garbanian | Hello. |
| 04:57:18 | cool_walking_ | Hello |
| 04:57:28 | Garbanian | whats up? |
| 04:57:46 | cool_walking_ | The social channel is #rockbox-community |
| 04:58:05 | Garbanian | >_> |
| 04:58:09 | Garbanian | And this one is? |
| 04:58:16 | cool_walking_ | Official, serious business. |
| 04:58:28 | Garbanian | As in Dxxx |
| 04:58:52 | cool_walking_ | As in, programming talk, and tech support of Rockbox. |
| 04:58:59 | Garbanian | cause all im doing is looking for some help. Rofl. |
| 04:59:07 | cool_walking_ | Yeah then this is the place. |
| 04:59:12 | scorche | then ask a question,, |
| 04:59:12 | Garbanian | *phews* |
| 04:59:21 | Garbanian | story time. |
| 04:59:33 | Garbanian | I installed it as the site said, put the text ect in. |
| 04:59:39 | Garbanian | And it looked right. |
| 04:59:46 | BHSPitMonkey | it = rockbox? |
| 04:59:48 | cool_walking_ | "the text"? |
| 05:00 |
| 05:00:05 | Garbanian | Ththe text file that came with it, basically the same thing as the main file. |
| 05:00:10 | Garbanian | The* |
| 05:00:18 | Garbanian | yea BHSPitMonkey |
| 05:00:19 | Garbanian | >_> |
| 05:00:21 | Garbanian | anywho |
| 05:00:28 | Garbanian | i rebooted and it looked retarded. |
| 05:00:34 | Garbanian | Like...blank >_< |
| 05:00:39 | | Join joshin [0] (n=joshin@VDSL-130-13-252-76.PHNX.QWEST.NET) |
| 05:00:42 | Garbanian | So i uninstalled as the guide said |
| 05:01:00 | Garbanian | it reverted to the original iTunes, and attempted a redownload/install |
| 05:01:09 | Garbanian | and im still getting the weird theme thing |
| 05:01:19 | | Quit piga ("Leaving") |
| 05:01:25 | scorche | a few things: |
| 05:01:35 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:02:02 | scorche | first off...please write you complete thoughts...it is much harder to read when you have 7 different lines in a row |
| 05:02:26 | Garbanian | Sorry >_> |
| 05:02:36 | scorche | secondly...please try and explain things in greater detail and referencing what actually happens instead of "the weird thing |
| 05:02:44 | scorche | thirdly, which guide are you referring to? |
| 05:04:33 | Garbanian | Okay....Well i downloaded the 30 gig rockbox, from the site. Unzipped it to the desktop, and went to the guide at http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-build.html which i follwed the manual install. I copied and pasted the .rockbox to the drive in which my iPod is located. Then copied the voices to the iPod and then executed the bootloader. I rebooted the iPod, and rockbox- |
| 05:05:42 | scorche | it got cut off at "the iPod, and rockbox-", but thanks a bunch for writing it out :) |
| 05:06:17 | Garbanian | loaded fine. The skin for the ipod looked amazing. Then i got the songs in there, it told me to reboot again to do something (not sure), so i did, and when this happened the skin went to like...(ill take a pick just read your comment, i put the - to continue it) a skin that...basically shouldnt be there. |
| 05:07:01 | scorche | what did this "skin" look like?...as in what made it stand out? |
| 05:07:13 | Garbanian | im taking a pic now |
| 05:07:22 | scorche | ah...alright |
| 05:07:26 | Garbanian | cause even reinstalling wont get it back to the rockbox original |
| 05:07:55 | A-4 | and changing the theme in the settings doesnt work either? |
| 05:08:03 | Garbanian | Dunno...? |
| 05:08:20 | Garbanian | Lemme take a pic of all the themes then |
| 05:09:14 | scorche | Garbanian: first, could you shut the ipod off, turn it on, and then flip the hold switch on while it boots? |
| 05:09:58 | cool_walking_ | scorche: maybe expand a little on that, since that could get you into the Apple firmware, or Rockbox with cleared settings. |
| 05:10:53 | cool_walking_ | Depending on when you flick the switch. |
| 05:10:58 | Garbanian | saving them now |
| 05:11:43 | | Part the_bdquick ("Leaving") |
| 05:12:06 | Garbanian | Yay slow interwebz |
| 05:13:22 | Garbanian | oh snapp these are the big files from the cam |
| 05:13:24 | Garbanian | 0_0 |
| 05:14:18 | krazykit | Garbanian, please, this is an on-topic channel. take non-rockbox chatter elsewhere. |
| 05:15:34 | Garbanian | I am here for help |
| 05:15:44 | | Join AJG983 [0] (n=209594fd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-8674fa628f8eb220) |
| 05:15:51 | Garbanian | they've been helping me, i just said that as an update for why it was taking so long. |
| 05:15:59 | cool_walking_ | Yes, but unnecessary chatter clogs the logs (this channel is logged). |
| 05:16:58 | Garbanian | Well either way, i found an alternate way, ssed the pics, all them basically look the same, but 1 is yellow, not white. |
| 05:17:21 | Garbanian | http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q38/blahblahblah111blah/?action=view¤t=4-2.jpg http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q38/blahblahblah111blah/?action=view¤t=3-2.jpg http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q38/blahblahblah111blah/?action=view¤t=2-2.jpg http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q38/blahblahblah111blah/?action=view¤t=1-1.jpg |
| 05:17:32 | AJG983 | If I am running rockbox on a sansa e260 and i go to plug it in via usb to my pc while playing a song to charge the battery, is it supposed to turn off and just have the wheel light up blue while the screen remains black? I thought it was possible to plug the player in while running rockbox and not have it automatically power off. |
| 05:19:00 | scorche | Garbanian: does the theme change when you click on the items under browse themes? |
| 05:19:07 | A-4 | Garbanian: select cabbiev2 as theme, it's the default |
| 05:19:23 | Garbanian | each one of those is a diff theme, only 1 changes color, to yellow, but that didnt save |
| 05:20:22 | AJG983 | anyone? |
| 05:20:59 | scorche | Garbanian: could you try as i said before? with the hold button? |
| 05:21:33 | Garbanian | turn it on like hold the play pause button, or hold menu + select? |
| 05:21:43 | cool_walking_ | scorche: you didn't say _when_ to flick the hold switch on. flicking it on at different times will get you either into the Apple firmware, or cleared settings in Rockbox. |
| 05:22:10 | scorche | cool_walking_: i am well aware, but it is simple to say "try it again a bit later" |
| 05:22:49 | scorche | Garbanian: turn it off by holding play/pause; turn it on; flick the hold switch on |
| 05:23:20 | | Quit AJG983 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 05:24:01 | Garbanian | I got to the normal iTunes look |
| 05:25:20 | scorche | ok...then reset with holding menu and select, and then turn it on again a bit later...right when you see the rockbox name if you can |
| 05:25:55 | Garbanian | should it say cleared? |
| 05:26:03 | scorche | yes |
| 05:26:26 | Garbanian | then i think i win, should i just boot it up as normal? |
| 05:26:37 | scorche | yes |
| 05:26:52 | scorche | do you get the "regular look" again? |
| 05:26:56 | Garbanian | ooo hey!!! its sexy! |
| 05:28:02 | Garbanian | Thank you scorche!!!!<3 |
| 05:28:38 | scorche | thanks for following instructions :) |
| 05:29:09 | Garbanian | Lol, i take it that doesnt happen ofter? |
| 05:29:12 | Garbanian | often* |
| 05:29:23 | Garbanian | Well....gtg actuall...getting yelled at |
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| 06:37:19 | Par[4] | hi |
| 06:37:46 | Par[4] | what version of rockbos shoud i use if i have ipod classic 160? |
| 06:37:56 | scorche | none of them |
| 06:38:01 | Par[4] | :\ |
| 06:38:33 | Par[4] | thers no vesrion for the 160? |
| 06:38:45 | scorche | correct...as it says on the front page |
| 06:39:00 | Par[4] | 10x. |
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| 07:22:06 | mrjenkins | I can now confirm that RockboxUtility works successfully on Windows Vista x64 and Windows Server 2008 x64 if thats useful |
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| 07:50:23 | JdGordon | so much of the list vp patch do we eventually want? |
| 07:51:38 | JdGordon | I mean, we can now reallly easily setup the menus and browsers to sit in an arbitary spot... bars arnt ready yet though |
| 07:51:53 | Llorean | Like, the scroll bar, or do you mean like the button bar? |
| 07:52:33 | JdGordon | status/button bars |
| 07:53:01 | Llorean | Well... |
| 07:53:17 | Llorean | linuxstb is working on a solution for the status bar, I think. |
| 07:53:18 | | Join Phreadde [0] (n=ca242d01@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-57b146663f732c3f) |
| 07:53:40 | JdGordon | true |
| 07:53:47 | Llorean | But honestly, I don't mind if they're locked in place for now, while the list itself is movable. |
| 07:54:09 | Llorean | Users who want to use up a lot of the screen with backdrops will turn off the status bar (or incorporate it), and will be on a non-button-bar target anyway |
| 07:54:28 | JdGordon | yeah |
| 07:55:38 | * | JdGordon would rather a statusbar "wps" seperate from the wps "wps" than a single .wps for both |
| 07:55:48 | Llorean | Why? |
| 07:56:01 | JdGordon | fix up the parser to handle that, then making the fm wpsable should be simple |
| 07:56:29 | | Quit Shaid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 07:57:30 | Phreadde | I've recently registered on the Twiki and need to be write-enabled so I can upload a modified WgtnNZ.fmr file |
| 07:58:26 | Phreadde | my id is PeterDawson, btw |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:46 | JdGordon | done |
| 08:02:01 | Llorean | JdGordon: Yeah, but ignoring that, is there a reason against linuxstb's method? I really like the fact that it means you can incorporate playback elements into the List (though it's still lacking for conditional viewports) |
| 08:02:47 | JdGordon | no, that screeny I saw looked great |
| 08:03:25 | JdGordon | its gonna be a fairly big ram hit though (doing it the way id rather) |
| 08:04:21 | | Join pondlife [50] (n=Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife) |
| 08:04:41 | Llorean | I mean I'd want a "status bar" up top, and a "playback status" at the bottom, which disappears and returns the space to the list if playback is stopped. But that's just me and how I'd design my list viewports, and illustrates a couple extra features it'd need to have to meet my "ideal" |
| 08:04:47 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: have you got any plans for radio.c? seems you were the last to fiddle in it (with a big TODO added...) |
| 08:05:09 | JdGordon | oh, you want both? that would be good too |
| 08:05:28 | Llorean | Up top would display "Time, Date, Battery, Volume" and maybe other things. |
| 08:05:46 | Llorean | At the bottom would be "Now Playing" alternating between Artist and Title and "Playlist Position" |
| 08:06:00 | Llorean | Then the Now Playing stuff would be conditional, if playback was stopped no need to display "Nothing" |
| 08:09:21 | * | JdGordon wonders why swcodec doesnt have peakmeters on the fm screen |
| 08:12:51 | Phreadde | JdGordon: Thanks - I've confirmed success with a new browser session. |
| 08:17:36 | Llorean | JdGordon: I would guess because nobody's bothered? In playback, it tells you if you're clipping (something you can fix), in Recording, it tells you if you're clipping (something you can fix). In FM, it tells you the station operators are clueless (not much you can do about it). |
| 08:18:13 | GodEater | has anyone complained about further breakage to the playback on ipods (g5.5 specifically) sometime between late last week and now ? |
| 08:18:32 | pondlife | GodEater: What kind of breakage? |
| 08:18:54 | JdGordon | Llorean: hehe, well i was more asking because the screen is boooring |
| 08:19:04 | Llorean | JdGordon: VERY boring, yes. |
| 08:19:08 | GodEater | like it was for a while after the spinlock change went in originally |
| 08:19:18 | GodEater | i.e. lots of cutting out when you first turn on |
| 08:19:27 | Llorean | GodEater: Does it go away, though, and never come back? |
| 08:19:33 | GodEater | only now, it does that on every folder change, not just while dircache |
| 08:19:38 | pondlife | Hmm, I've not seen that on my targets recently. I did before. |
| 08:19:41 | GodEater | +is building |
| 08:19:56 | GodEater | Llorean: not really no |
| 08:19:57 | | Quit Phreadde ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 08:19:59 | pondlife | So, not directly disk access related? |
| 08:20:15 | pondlife | i.e. once dircache has built, folder changes should need disk access... |
| 08:20:25 | Llorean | GodEater: jhMikeS made a recentish change on how priority is assigned for playback, which made my UI more responsive on my Sansa (and suggests then that playback gets less juice) |
| 08:20:26 | GodEater | yes |
| 08:20:27 | pondlife | s/should/shouldn't |
| 08:20:43 | GodEater | Llorean: I wondered if that might be the change that did it |
| 08:20:54 | GodEater | unfortunately I no longer have svn access from work |
| 08:21:02 | GodEater | so I can't test a build immediately prior |
| 08:21:11 | pondlife | That *is* unfortunate. |
| 08:21:26 | pondlife | I can make a build for you, if you want. |
| 08:21:31 | Llorean | It does sound kinda odd though, if it's happening even when dircache is built, etc. |
| 08:21:56 | GodEater | pondlife: I'd be happy to test if you did |
| 08:22:25 | pondlife | Give me a while to test/revert some stuff, should have a build by 9am |
| 08:22:33 | GodEater | no problem |
| 08:22:42 | pondlife | 80GB? |
| 08:22:49 | GodEater | yup |
| 08:27:31 | amiconn | JdGordon: That's rather obvious. Swcodec doesn't record from the fm screen, hence can't have peakmeters in that screen. In order to show peakmeters, you need to record the data |
| 08:27:52 | JdGordon | arnt they tied to line out? |
| 08:28:00 | JdGordon | like the wps.... |
| 08:28:20 | amiconn | There is no CPU visible line out data with fm |
| 08:28:32 | JdGordon | ah |
| 08:28:34 | JdGordon | righto |
| 08:28:45 | amiconn | The fm radio signal is just mixed into the analog signal path |
| 08:28:59 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCFD56.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:29:03 | * | GodEater discovers the "Introduce yourself" mentors thread in his inbox, and wonders how long it will take to read. |
| 08:29:19 | amiconn | The archoses with radio (fm recorder and Ondio fm) put the MAS into recording mode as soon as the fm screen is enetred |
| 08:31:54 | amiconn | So if you also have prerecording enabled, you can always record your favourite songs. The drawback is that the MAS sucks more battery power this way, so if you really just want to listen to the radio, battery runtime is shorter than it could be |
| 08:32:42 | | Quit BigBambi (Remote closed the connection) |
| 08:32:52 | amiconn | I will change that eventually, so that recording is only enabled in the fm screen if prerecording is enabled (maybe with a separate "prerecord fm" setting?) |
| 08:34:12 | amiconn | We can even save more battery power on archos this way. While the MAS is a single chip, its components can be switched on and off separately, and for fm radio, we only need the audiocodec. The dsp core can be switched off |
| 08:38:15 | amiconn | JdGordon: Btw, should your (red-delta-) commit fix the button bar problem? |
| 08:42:12 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: I don't even remember what the TODO: was |
| 08:44:56 | | Quit cool_walking_ (Remote closed the connection) |
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| 08:49:16 | amiconn | JdGordon: Now the button bar is even more broken :( The menu still reserves the space for the button bar even when it's disabled, and the browser has lost its button bar completely... |
| 08:50:06 | jhMikeS | GodEater: I did have someone test the mutex after a small but deep bug was corrected an the overall buffering speed was just as good as the rollback but it was mentioned that initial playback could break up. I think any real fix has to be at the buffering level. |
| 08:50:49 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.t-2.net) |
| 08:51:22 | | Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 08:52:22 | GodEater | jhMikeS: yep - I saw your note on the commit |
| 08:52:24 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: Ah yes, moving the basic tuner control out of the GUI |
| 08:54:28 | | Join Mauritz [0] (n=HenrikJo@ip72-211-194-66.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 08:54:55 | * | jhMikeS thinks the buffering chunk should go back to 32KB since the codec dominates too much with it yielding less in dsp.c |
| 08:56:17 | Mauritz | Anybody else seeing a complete lockup the moment you start playing any music on an IPod (Both my 5.5G 80GB and my Nano have the same problem). This started happening when I updated from Subversion today (Yesterday the build was fine). |
| 08:56:58 | Mauritz | I need to do a full reset to get out of it. |
| 08:57:19 | amiconn | Did you do a full rebuild? jhMikeS' commit of yesterday seems to require that |
| 08:57:39 | * | amiconn got an IllInstr yesterday when forgetting to do that for X5 |
| 08:57:56 | Mauritz | Oh, ok. No I didn't I just did a make. Thanks for the tip. I'll get back to you after I've tried it. |
| 08:58:00 | * | jhMikeS updated the codec api version so why's it not just failing? |
| 08:59:39 | | Quit GodEater (Remote closed the connection) |
| 09:00 |
| 09:00:20 | LinusN | jhMikeS: maybe it is failing, with a "Codec failure", but if the playlist is wrong, it could take a while to fail on each track |
| 09:00:29 | LinusN | s/wrong/long/ |
| 09:01:04 | LinusN | just a guess |
| 09:01:41 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 09:02:46 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: did you have plans to do it soonish? |
| 09:03:13 | jhMikeS | I think the particular rearrangement of variables might have actually made it impossible to get to the point where it can figure that out. |
| 09:03:45 | | Join GodEater [0] (i=c2cbc962@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 09:04:54 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: I hadn't thought about it. Is it critical to something? It's pretty much just a "paste it in another file" kind of thing. |
| 09:05:32 | JdGordon | I was looking for something to do and thought about fixing up the fm screen and saw it |
| 09:12:32 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 09:13:48 | JdGordon | ah crap... /me thinks a line got commited which shouldnt have |
| 09:14:19 | JdGordon | hmm... maybe not |
| 09:16:42 | amiconn | LinusN: I observed a weird effect regarding the iaudio LCD remote. |
| 09:16:49 | LinusN | oh? |
| 09:17:28 | amiconn | When I pull my M3 remote from the M3 while music is playing, and the plug it back in, everything works like it should (both in rockbox and the OF) |
| 09:18:19 | amiconn | But when I use the X5 remote (which should be electrically identical) on my M3, the M3 powers off immediately when I plug it back in |
| 09:18:47 | amiconn | When the X5 remote is plugged from the start, everything is okay. That also happens both in rockbox and the M3 OF. |
| 09:18:56 | JdGordon | amiconn: do _any_ lists not have the button bar? |
| 09:19:00 | amiconn | On the X5, I can use either remote without such effects |
| 09:20:02 | jhMikeS | a slight difference in connector shape? |
| 09:20:04 | amiconn | JdGordon: Iirc the debug menu didn't have a button bar. It could as well have one, but then the button labels would need to be adjusted of course |
| 09:20:39 | LinusN | amiconn: interesting indeed |
| 09:21:18 | amiconn | The button bar labels are something that needs rework anyway. The labels should reflect what the buttons actually do (that's what they are for), but somethimes they don't |
| 09:21:56 | amiconn | I think this is because there aren't many devs with a soft-button target nowadays :/ |
| 09:22:40 | amiconn | jhMikeS: The remote connectors are exactly the same among M3, M5 and X5 |
| 09:23:02 | petur | maybe the soft-button concept will come back with touch-screen devices... |
| 09:23:10 | * | amiconn didn't test re-plug behaviour on M5 yet |
| 09:23:21 | amiconn | petur: That might in fact be a good idea... |
| 09:23:46 | amiconn | Doesn't the mr500 have a touch screen? |
| 09:23:54 | petur | iirc, it does |
| 09:24:34 | JdGordon | it does.. but it wont while its in this broken state :D |
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| 09:25:30 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 09:26:06 | amiconn | JdGordon: Also, it would probably be good to not show a button bar when calling the menu code from plugins. We could do that, but then plugin authors would need to specify the correct button labels |
| 09:26:17 | Mauritz | Btw, has anybody done any work on getting remotes for IPod:s to work? Anyone have any tip on where I should start looking if I'm interested in it? |
| 09:27:22 | JdGordon | amiconn: they can, i added that in the commit |
| 09:27:30 | JdGordon | although its hide/show both bars... |
| 09:32:21 | | Join quitte [0] (n=quitte@stgt-d9bead4a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 09:33:51 | n1s | Mauritz: LinusN has posted a patch in the tracker with initial (far from complete) support for the accessory protocol |
| 09:35:03 | | Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 09:35:05 | Mauritz | n1s: Awesome. I'll check it out and see if I can help out. |
| 09:35:28 | Mauritz | amiconn: Your tip about the rebuild worked (At least for the 5.5G one). Thanks! |
| 09:37:15 | | Join OlivierBorowski [0] (n=OlivierB@ANancy-157-1-96-4.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:47:48 | | Join DerDome [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-198-154.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:53:22 | | Quit rasher (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 09:55:07 | JdGordon | almost fixed completly... (well mostly :p ) just gotta get the damn menu to resize when the bb is en/disabled |
| 09:55:14 | quitte | morning. is someone here working on the zvm port? the forum thread is giving me a headache. where do i find the zenutils? |
| 09:55:33 | | Part Mauritz |
| 09:56:41 | | Join B4gder [0] (n=daniel@triton.contactor.se) |
| 10:00 |
| 10:01:28 | * | pondlife wants the Cowan D2 to be his touchscreen target. |
| 10:02:48 | JdGordon | na, its too small |
| 10:07:17 | petur | hmmm iriver created another player with line-in: E100 |
| 10:08:45 | | Join Mathiasdm [0] (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:14:22 | | Quit DerDome (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:16:01 | | Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:16:37 | | Join advcomp2019 [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) |
| 10:16:38 | petur | interesting firmware site: http://nyaochi.sakura.ne.jp/iriverupdate/ |
| 10:17:05 | GodEater | does anyone know why the dircache thread screen on my ipod is no longer updating in real time ? |
| 10:21:26 | pondlife | The tarballs seem to be broken more often than not... :/ |
| 10:21:47 | pondlife | Could the tarball building process just be automated straight off SVN? |
| 10:22:01 | pondlife | i.e. no reliance on FILES |
| 10:22:05 | n1s | yeps, there doesn't seem to be a nice way to automate the FILES thingy... |
| 10:22:38 | n1s | pondlife: I think the idea is to not be dependent on svn, i don't understand why we need that though... |
| 10:23:14 | n1s | and adding too wide wildcards defeats the purpose too (as with the current app.lds files issue) |
| 10:23:15 | pondlife | Seems like we are going to be dependent on the master source control system anyway. |
| 10:23:41 | | Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!") |
| 10:23:44 | | Quit sneakums ("There shouldn't be this reign of silence, but what are the options when someone great is gone?") |
| 10:23:48 | B4gder | yeps, we should probably just make it suck everying that isn't .svn into a tarball |
| 10:24:34 | * | n1s didn't see LinusN's commit :) |
| 10:25:56 | petur | Bagder: a 'hex' file starting with 11 22 33 44 55 66 77 88 99 AA BB CC DD EE FF ring any bell? |
| 10:26:17 | petur | it is probably some kind of an archive |
| 10:26:26 | B4gder | not really, but it looks like a magic marker |
| 10:26:35 | petur | yeah ;) |
| 10:26:40 | | Join Mathiasdm [0] (n=Mathias@vpnc031.ugent.be) |
| 10:26:47 | JdGordon | its missing 00! |
| 10:27:17 | * | petur has a quick look at the E100 firmware upgrade file |
| 10:27:42 | B4gder | it's probably a custom magic way to identify their file format |
| 10:28:21 | petur | I was hoping it really was some standard archive format - maybe they just changed the marker |
| 10:29:00 | * | B4gder goes to check |
| 10:30:00 | | Join sneakums [0] (i=sneakums@jenny.ondioline.org) |
| 10:30:15 | B4gder | huge! |
| 10:30:20 | petur | 22MB |
| 10:31:08 | GodEater | 16791 has definitely rendered my ipod a pain in the ass to use again |
| 10:32:09 | B4gder | petur: it certainly looks scrambled or compressed |
| 10:32:20 | petur | yes, no strings at all |
| 10:33:43 | B4gder | and the hex file didn't compress much in the zip, meaning it has almost no long sequences of similarities |
| 10:33:58 | B4gder | which a hexdump also shows |
| 10:34:02 | | Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!") |
| 10:34:13 | | Join Mathiasdm [0] (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:34:52 | B4gder | file size at offet 0x10, little endian |
| 10:34:55 | B4gder | offset |
| 10:35:28 | | Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:36:53 | petur | indeed... |
| 10:39:00 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 10:39:30 | | Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:39:43 | | Join advcomp2019 [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) |
| 10:40:18 | * | petur swears at the gsoc mentor list introduction thread |
| 10:42:03 | | Quit ChanServ (Shutting Down) |
| 10:42:29 | markun | petur: what's wrong with it? |
| 10:42:34 | * | GodEater has muted it already ;) |
| 10:42:43 | GodEater | markun: it's enormous ? |
| 10:42:44 | petur | too many mails? |
| 10:43:07 | GodEater | petur: you getting it to a gmail address, or elsewhere ? |
| 10:43:33 | | Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@195-144-092-133.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be) |
| 10:43:35 | | Join ChanServ [0] (ChanServ@services.) |
| 10:43:35 | Mode | "#rockbox +o ChanServ " by irc.freenode.net |
| 10:43:35 | petur | gmail and then forwarded |
| 10:43:51 | Llorean | I just set a filter in gmail for it to skip the inbox and go straight to being archived. |
| 10:44:05 | GodEater | Llorean: you mean "mute", but more complicated. |
| 10:44:28 | GodEater | and won't wake it up again in the (unlikely) event you got addressed directly in it |
| 10:44:28 | JdGordon | hey gevaerts, should the "reconnect usb mode" debug option be in the svn builds? |
| 10:44:30 | * | gevaerts doesn't use gmail at all, and quickly set up a procmail filter this morning |
| 10:45:06 | Llorean | GodEater: I don't want someone mentioning me on it, then waking up in the morning to find my phone is freaking out again because it has over 400 emails on it. |
| 10:45:15 | gevaerts | JdGordon: probably not. I'll remove it some time today (I guess the "keep out" label is enough to make this non-urgent) |
| 10:45:16 | Llorean | At about the 480 mark, my mobile email client starts giving up, I think |
| 10:46:16 | GodEater | I don't think I've ever tried a thread that large on the gmail mobile client - so no idea how well my phone would cope. |
| 10:46:55 | * | gevaerts wonders if he's the only one who noticed that gsoc _doesn't_ require a gmail account |
| 10:48:24 | GodEater | I don't use anything other than my gmail account these days |
| 10:48:31 | GodEater | so I wouldn't have noticed/cared |
| 10:48:52 | * | JdGordon too |
| 10:49:01 | * | JdGordon also not getting any gsoc emails |
| 10:54:14 | | Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:54:50 | | Join scorche [0] (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 10:57:50 | B4gder | 75 UKP shipping for a 13 UKP device is a bit too much... |
| 10:58:01 | B4gder | (that sansa c240 deal) |
| 10:58:12 | Llorean | Whoa |
| 10:58:24 | pondlife | B4gder: Where was that? |
| 10:58:37 | GodEater | pondlife: FS 8807 |
| 10:58:38 | B4gder | http://www.bigpockets.co.uk/product.php?product=SANDISK056 |
| 10:58:39 | JdGordon | group buy to make it worth while? |
| 10:58:46 | | Join ze0 [0] (i=ze@cpe-76-175-22-254.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:59:06 | | Quit ze (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:59:11 | | Nick ze0 is now known as ze (i=ze@cpe-76-175-22-254.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:59:15 | B4gder | it's just the Swedish shipping that seems absurdely expensive from there |
| 10:59:25 | | Join kbblak [0] (n=michael@frnk-590ebcf5.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 10:59:26 | pondlife | I could post it to you? |
| 10:59:40 | pondlife | UK shipping is £3.29 |
| 10:59:53 | * | gevaerts notes that their sales still seem slow, and now really considers to offer them 100 or 200 euro for the lot |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:14 | pondlife | Do the C200's have a v2 ? |
| 11:00:21 | B4gder | yes |
| 11:00:32 | pondlife | So that's not a guaranteed target? |
| 11:00:33 | JdGordon | gevaerts: in the hope one of them is a v2? |
| 11:00:39 | | Quit cbr|w (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 11:00:46 | B4gder | linuxstb just said the one he got from there was a v1 |
| 11:00:47 | gevaerts | JdGordon: no. To build a huge Tower of Rockbox |
| 11:00:51 | JdGordon | :) |
| 11:01:04 | JdGordon | you wont beat the seattle one.. no matter how hard you try! |
| 11:01:18 | * | Llorean is slowly collecting to make the champion tower on his own. :-P |
| 11:01:19 | * | gevaerts tries to find it |
| 11:01:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:01:43 | pondlife | £9.99 for a C240 without radio! |
| 11:01:53 | | Join cbr|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130) |
| 11:01:57 | pondlife | That's worth a punt. |
| 11:02:22 | gevaerts | JdGordon: If I have 250 c200's I'll beat it easily :) |
| 11:02:48 | JdGordon | na, mp3 players are useless stackers |
| 11:03:03 | Llorean | JdGordon: Gigabeat Fs stack really well. |
| 11:03:08 | JdGordon | stupid rounded edges |
| 11:03:12 | Llorean | No protrusions, so you can just use 'em like bricks. |
| 11:03:14 | JdGordon | and protruding buttons |
| 11:03:54 | gevaerts | Are audio cables allowed in the structure ? |
| 11:04:15 | GodEater | I don't see why not |
| 11:04:18 | * | Llorean would imagine "only what the device came with" as a fair restriction |
| 11:04:33 | GodEater | that would include docks then |
| 11:05:10 | gevaerts | There is a Tower on the wiki that uses docks |
| 11:05:24 | B4gder | people do anything to cheat! |
| 11:05:27 | B4gder | :-) |
| 11:05:47 | B4gder | I would claim a clean tower to be nothing but main players, no remote, no cables, no cradles |
| 11:06:06 | gevaerts | I want two towers, and an audio-cable suspension bridge between them |
| 11:06:14 | B4gder | hahaha |
| 11:06:16 | JdGordon | remotes and docks are fine |
| 11:06:18 | GodEater | now *thats* ambition |
| 11:06:30 | | Part kbblak |
| 11:06:57 | * | Llorean is sad that the Tango-style icons don't cover all the Rockbox targets. |
| 11:06:58 | JdGordon | gevaerts: if you can suspend a dap on the cable as the bridge then that would be freeking sweet |
| 11:07:28 | Llorean | I was just thinking of adding them as icons in the forums, so people could put a very tiny picture of their player in their signature. |
| 11:07:35 | * | Llorean *tries* to do something friendly every now and then.l |
| 11:07:41 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@rockbox/developer/barrywardell) |
| 11:07:49 | JdGordon | please dont |
| 11:07:54 | JdGordon | pics in sigs are painful |
| 11:08:11 | * | GodEater recommends elinks to JdGordon |
| 11:08:30 | Llorean | JdGordon: 16x16 icons aren't exactly *bad* :-P |
| 11:09:45 | JdGordon | oh, that small is fine |
| 11:10:10 | pondlife | remotes/docks/accessories can only be used it they are fully supported by Rockbox... |
| 11:10:27 | pondlife | (which is trivial on many of them) |
| 11:10:42 | B4gder | we should get rockbox to a DVD player soon, *that* will make the most awesome towers! |
| 11:10:43 | JdGordon | except plenty of towers have then unsupported targets |
| 11:10:48 | JdGordon | or unfisninhed targets |
| 11:11:05 | Llorean | JdGordon: Yeah, nothing big at all. 16x16 or maybe 24x24, but they'd be quite tiny, and no larger than the "smilies" currently used. |
| 11:11:55 | barrywardell | does anyone know what DEV_USB0 really is? that seems to be what's preventing the current sansa bootloader from loading the OF |
| 11:18:45 | * | gevaerts only knows that it needs to be set for usb to work |
| 11:21:23 | barrywardell | specifically, unsetting it causes the of to not load |
| 11:23:28 | | Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 11:27:18 | markun | id3.c is compiled when building a bootloader. Should it? |
| 11:28:20 | petur | for the startup sound |
| 11:30:33 | * | markun would like to make a copy of firmware/id3.c to apps/metadata and use that one for swcodec targets |
| 11:30:55 | markun | and add support for itunes gapless |
| 11:36:35 | barrywardell | grrr. the H10 bootloader isn't loading the OF any more either. It's not the same problem as with the e200 though |
| 11:40:19 | | Quit leox (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 11:46:17 | amiconn | markun: Duplication is bad... |
| 11:47:11 | linuxstb_ | markun: Does the fact that id3.c is in firmware prevent you doing itunes gapless? |
| 11:52:01 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 11:52:09 | * | preglow blinks at the new mod player patch |
| 11:55:44 | * | amiconn wonders what itunes gapless is |
| 11:57:31 | linuxstb_ | Just some metadata itunes writes to files, similar to the Lame header IIUC |
| 11:58:05 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@rockbox/developer/barrywardell) |
| 11:58:06 | markun | linuxstb_: the format of the id3 tag is basically the same as the one used in itunes aac files and I don't want to duplicate or move that code to system. |
| 11:58:50 | markun | amiconn: itunes stores the exact length of the audio file in a tag, just like lame |
| 11:59:09 | pondlife | But a different tag? |
| 11:59:09 | markun | oops, that's what linuxstb_ wrote |
| 11:59:12 | markun | yes |
| 11:59:29 | JdGordon | has the samsung t10 come under anyones radar? |
| 11:59:41 | linuxstb_ | markun: I know it's not ideal, but I think moving those functions to id3.c is cleaner than duplicating the file. |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:03 | markun | can't the hwcodec targets use apps/metatada/id3.c? |
| 12:00:18 | linuxstb_ | Unless you want to attempt to move the hwcodec engine into apps/ - which I attempted to do once, and think it's feasible... |
| 12:00:38 | markun | sounds like a better option |
| 12:00:41 | * | pondlife does a little unification jig. |
| 12:00:43 | | Join Shaid3 [0] (n=adam@124-168-30-235.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:00:49 | markun | linuxstb_: what made you stop? |
| 12:01:03 | linuxstb_ | I got stuck... I emailed the dev list for some help, but I don't think anyone replied. |
| 12:02:14 | * | amiconn would rather keep the current hwcodec engine where it is |
| 12:02:18 | markun | JdGordon: it uses a telechips soc? |
| 12:02:27 | markun | amiconn: why? |
| 12:02:50 | JdGordon | the reason id3.c is in firmware is because mpeg.c needs it right? well.. as a quick hack to move it, couldnt apps set the required function pointers to get around the firware->apps problem? |
| 12:03:02 | linuxstb_ | markun: Here is my email - http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2006-02/0077.shtml |
| 12:03:08 | JdGordon | markun: does it? trying to find out... might get one if its a possibile target |
| 12:04:22 | | Join MethoS [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-213-233.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 12:04:30 | amiconn | markun: Note that I said *current*. When you look at mpeg.c, you'll see that it's tied to the hardware, i.e. it is firmware code |
| 12:04:50 | markun | JdGordon: maybe not. I just googled a bit and found this post, but didn't read it carefully: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15267.msg114192 |
| 12:04:54 | amiconn | The proper solution would be to attempt engine unification - which requires new code at the firmware layer |
| 12:05:08 | amiconn | Also note that mpeg.c handles *both* playback and recording |
| 12:05:57 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: But you can equally argue that the id3 code belongs in apps... IMO a better compromise would be to have some MAS-specific code (if it has to be) in apps/, rather than id3 metadata parsing in firmware/. |
| 12:06:25 | markun | JdGordon: yes, it's the TCC7801 just like the D2 |
| 12:07:16 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: And it could be a start towards unification - i.e. abstracting the hardware playback/recording code a little. |
| 12:07:39 | | Quit ColinT (Remote closed the connection) |
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| 12:09:24 | JdGordon | markun: thanks' |
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| 12:14:18 | barrywardell | the H10 bootloader problem (not loading the OF) happened somewhere in between 14004 and 14015. |
| 12:16:20 | barrywardell | It looks like somewhere in amiconn's clock frequency cleanup(14005), or in the H10 LCD speedup(14006) |
| 12:18:40 | | Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
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| 12:20:48 | barrywardell | amiconn: the problem is in setting CLCD_CLOCK_SRC in lcd_init_device. Can I safely #ifndef BOOTLOADER that line? |
| 12:21:56 | barrywardell | amiconn: and do you know does it also need to be done for the small H10 lcd driver? |
| 12:23:26 | | Quit gevaerts (Nick collision from services.) |
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| 12:24:00 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@athedsl-4425001.home.otenet.gr) |
| 12:26:02 | Nico_P | GodEater: I've experienced FS #8807 just now |
| 12:27:03 | GodEater | hurrah finally!!!! |
| 12:27:07 | GodEater | it's not just me |
| 12:28:16 | linuxstb_ | DIdn't jhMikeS mention there might be issues on the 5.5g? |
| 12:31:03 | | Quit maraz (Remote closed the connection) |
| 12:31:21 | | Quit MethoS (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 12:33:19 | GodEater | he did |
| 12:33:26 | GodEater | but when I mentioned that he was right this morning to him |
| 12:33:43 | GodEater | he thinks the right place to fix the issue is firmly in buffering |
| 12:36:36 | linuxstb | Yes, I recall him saying that as well... |
| 12:36:44 | JdGordon | is there any real reason we cant move the hwcodec fm recording into the rec screen like swcodec? |
| 12:38:04 | linuxstb | Being able to record from the FM screen sounds like a useful feature to me - one to implement for swcodec... |
| 12:38:45 | pixelma | JdGordon: no, I'd rather want it the other way round |
| 12:38:49 | * | linuxstb would even quite like a "timelapse" type feature for FM... |
| 12:39:12 | linuxstb | (being able to pause/rewind live radio) |
| 12:39:20 | GodEater | tivo for your ears |
| 12:39:25 | JdGordon | now your being rediculous! :p |
| 12:39:32 | GodEater | that's a damn good idea actually |
| 12:39:51 | * | GodEater thinks it should get moved to the GSoC project ideas list immediately |
| 12:40:04 | linuxstb | Recording to RAM only, with MP3 compression would be nice for those targets with lots of RAM |
| 12:40:48 | pixelma | and I'd also like the way the prerecording time is shown in the hwcodec FM screen everywhere else (counting up as it's buffering until it reached the set prerecording time, so you know when it reached "full" state) |
| 12:41:39 | * | petur wonders if it would be usefull to increase the pre-rec time |
| 12:41:42 | linuxstb | GodEater: I think it would make a decent SoC project - it's far from trivial... |
| 12:41:47 | pixelma | if you do FM recordings it's much more convenient to do so from the FM screen - you can even change stations |
| 12:41:56 | JdGordon | is the fmrecorder the only archos with fm? |
| 12:42:12 | GodEater | http://www.moderndandies.com/gadget-gear/green-mp3-player <−− no more battery woes ? |
| 12:42:14 | linuxstb | I think some recv2 models have FM |
| 12:42:21 | pixelma | no, the OndioFM too (and some V2-Recorders |
| 12:42:25 | pixelma | ) |
| 12:42:29 | JdGordon | arg |
| 12:42:54 | JdGordon | is there enough room under the current screen on them to stick the presets list if its in preset mode? |
| 12:42:59 | * | JdGordon going viewport crazy :p |
| 12:43:10 | linuxstb_ | s/viewport// ? |
| 12:44:38 | pixelma | depends on the user font |
| 12:45:07 | JdGordon | doesnt look like it :( |
| 12:45:47 | pixelma | but I guess you can't see a list (maybe just one) even if you chose a tiny font |
| 12:46:37 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 12:46:55 | pixelma | +entry |
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| 12:50:55 | | Join linuxstb__ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 12:50:58 | Nico_P | GodEater: have you tried increasing the buffering chunksize? |
| 12:52:36 | GodEater | Nico_P: I have no svn at work anymore |
| 12:52:37 | GodEater | so no |
| 12:52:44 | Nico_P | ah. I'll try it |
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| 12:55:36 | | Quit linuxstb__ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 12:56:18 | Nico_P | Bagder: "we should probably just make it suck everying that isn't .svn into a tarball" => do you know of svn export? |
| 12:56:46 | linuxstb | Nico_P: That sounds sensible. |
| 12:56:54 | B4gder | yes I know about that, but it seems like a wasteful thing to run when there's a complete checkout around all the time |
| 12:57:25 | markun | if we switch to git you just have to ignore 1 .git folder ;) |
| 12:57:52 | * | linuxstb thought the gsoc mentors list was for private discussions amongst mentors, and gets annoyed by all this off-topic spam |
| 12:58:32 | Nico_P | B4gder: makes sense... I guess if you know there won't be any cruft in the checkout you can just as well filter .svn out |
| 12:58:59 | B4gder | that's my thinking, yes |
| 12:59:15 | B4gder | I have this single checkout that I base all my scripting against |
| 12:59:36 | B4gder | ... well, almost all at least.. and it should be free of junk |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:27 | Nico_P | in case you want to be sure to get rid of the junk, maybe svn ls could come in handy |
| 13:01:48 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:02:45 | B4gder | ah yes |
| 13:03:58 | linuxstb | Yes, "svn ls -R" seems a nice command... |
| 13:04:13 | B4gder | indeed! |
| 13:04:55 | B4gder | beats find . \! -path "*.svn*" |
| 13:05:20 | Nico_P | :) |
| 13:05:29 | * | linuxstb looks forward to B4gder commit to remove FILES... ;) |
| 13:05:38 | B4gder | stay tuned! |
| 13:10:06 | B4gder | almost 22MB uncompressed... |
| 13:11:12 | n1s | Nico_P: have you looked at fs#8601 (disk spinning at trackchange with dircache disabled) ? I looked at it but don't quite understand the difference between playlist_end and end_of_playlist :( |
| 13:13:15 | Nico_P | n1s: yes I've looked at it... It makes me want to rewrite the track skipping handling |
| 13:13:39 | | Quit jcollie ("Ex-Chat") |
| 13:14:02 | n1s | please do :) |
| 13:15:34 | pondlife | Nico_P: And keep adding comments - I think I got stuck about the same place as n1s. |
| 13:16:14 | Nico_P | yeah the difference is rather subtle |
| 13:16:36 | pondlife | Timing, or checked/unchecked? |
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| 13:17:18 | Nico_P | end_of_playlist is local to audio_check_new_track, whereas playlist_end is global to playback.c (true meaning the last track of the playlist is buffered IIRC) |
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| 13:19:40 | B4gder | is it bad to include the manual dir in the tarball? |
| 13:19:49 | B4gder | or should we take that as a bonus? |
| 13:19:54 | Llorean | Bonus. |
| 13:20:01 | B4gder | I think so too |
| 13:20:04 | Llorean | People working on the source should be aware of the manual anyway. |
| 13:20:29 | B4gder | ls -l test.tar.bz2 |
| 13:20:29 | B4gder | -rw-rw-r−− 1 dast dast 17911983 Mar 26 13:17 test.tar.bz2 |
| 13:20:57 | B4gder | I'm thinking of allowing it to be rsynced |
| 13:21:06 | markun | B4gder: can you try 7zip? |
| 13:21:16 | Nico_P | Bagder: the source or the bzip2? |
| 13:21:18 | B4gder | I'll try |
| 13:21:24 | Nico_P | and what's that in -h? |
| 13:22:15 | markun | B4gder: anything important I forgot? http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/meizu-todo.txt |
| 13:22:18 | B4gder | Nico_P: I guess both the source and the bzip2, but when I think about it I guess that people that can do other ports than HTTP can just as well svn it |
| 13:23:07 | Nico_P | rsync could be nice, but would it be efficient on the compressed file? |
| 13:23:16 | B4gder | markun: I think you can spell out the (potential) DFU-problems to fix |
| 13:24:57 | B4gder | ls -l test.tar.7z |
| 13:24:57 | B4gder | -rw−−−−−−- 1 dast dast 15992402 Mar 26 13:24 test.tar.7z |
| 13:24:58 | markun | B4gder: there is a winodws tool which does work, but I'll add it to the todo |
| 13:25:20 | B4gder | yes, as using windows will be painful... |
| 13:25:31 | markun | indeed ;) |
| 13:26:04 | B4gder | almost 2MB smaller |
| 13:28:15 | markun | quite a bit |
| 13:29:04 | B4gder | but at this size, the compression takes quite some time |
| 13:29:48 | linuxstb | pixelma: (and others...) I don't know if you read the discussion last night, but do you have any objections to me making Rockbox's WPS parser reject a WPS if the bmps fail to load? |
| 13:29:52 | B4gder | cd |
| 13:29:54 | A-4 | rtc is as good as done, needs some cleaning and a final check tho. Also copied i2c from the gigabit port and added a read function |
| 13:29:57 | B4gder | oops |
| 13:29:58 | linuxstb | (this is so checkwps can do the same) |
| 13:30:11 | markun | A-4: nice |
| 13:30:24 | pondlife | linuxstb: I think it's good to be strict |
| 13:31:11 | linuxstb | pondlife: Yes, me too... |
| 13:31:21 | pondlife | Go for it |
| 13:32:02 | markun | A-4: anything on the todo you want to look at next? |
| 13:32:55 | markun | A-4: I'm adding some stubs to get the bootloader to compile and then we can use it as the basis for some test programs |
| 13:33:05 | A-4 | doesnt realy mather 2 me |
| 13:33:25 | markun | maybe a driver for the button/touch controller? |
| 13:33:28 | A-4 | cool, but i dont have my m6 yet =[ |
| 13:33:33 | markun | ah yes :) |
| 13:34:31 | A-4 | i could give it a try |
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| 13:36:14 | * | Nico_P 's S is only displaying the statusbar :/ |
| 13:36:30 | linuxstb | pondlife: I have the patch, but it needs a little more testing, so I'll probably commit tonight if no-one shouts. |
| 13:38:13 | | Quit dionoea (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:38:57 | disorganizer | linuxstb: would the wps parser give out an error? or just default to the default-wps like now? |
| 13:40:02 | linuxstb | Just default like now. |
| 13:40:03 | pixelma | linuxstb: I don't know, guess it could help if people have too many images and don't know that they do. If anything can make a WPS fall back to the built-in one it's sometimes harder to find the real reason(s). I know those WPSs are broken but it helped me more to see a broken image (or the broken WPS before this fall-back mechanism was invented). Could be that it's a bit different for me in comparison to those who hit the buffer limit and that wa |
| 13:40:41 | linuxstb | pixelma: Then you need checkwps ;) The intention is for that to give you more useful feedback about the problems. |
| 13:40:49 | disorganizer | linuxstb: would it be hard to make it give out some kind of error message instead of defaulting? like "missing conditional" or in this case "too many images" |
| 13:41:15 | linuxstb | disorganizer: Yes - we don't want to have to store all those error strings in Rockbox (and translate/voice them...) |
| 13:41:42 | disorganizer | you got a point. maybe instead of defaulting just display a text "error in wps, use checkwps to verify" |
| 13:41:57 | Llorean | disorganizer: There's a PC-side tool that uses the exact same code Rockbox does. If Rockbox won't display the WPS, then the PC side tool will give you a more helpful error message. |
| 13:42:14 | pixelma | disorganizer has a point. It would be real nice if there was at least *some* notice that loading the WPS failed (look at all the questions in the forums or here of people who try to load broken themes/WPSs and don't know what's going on) |
| 13:42:42 | linuxstb | Yes, a basic "WPS error" message could be nice. |
| 13:42:50 | Nico_P | I agree |
| 13:42:52 | disorganizer | problem imho is that people do come here often with the question "the default wps shows if i load this and that theme". if they get any error message pointing in the right direction this could pevent channel-floods :-) |
| 13:42:55 | disorganizer | +r |
| 13:43:33 | disorganizer | i wouldnt even show any default wps then. or add the text to the default wps any ONLY show it on error :-) |
| 13:43:40 | disorganizer | a kind of "error-wps" |
| 13:43:59 | pondlife | Good idea.. |
| 13:44:05 | linuxstb | disorganizer: That's because of all these nasty unofficial builds and unofficial themes everywhere.... ;) i.e. things others have done to make life hard for users. |
| 13:44:33 | * | linuxstb is looking forward to the new rockbox-themes.org |
| 13:44:45 | disorganizer | yes, but also many changes in the wps syntax lately :-) |
| 13:44:46 | Nico_P | I don't think we need an "error WPS". the default is already just that. a splash should be good enough IMHO |
| 13:45:28 | Llorean | Just an "WPS Broken" splash? |
| 13:45:41 | Llorean | then business as usual |
| 13:45:47 | disorganizer | nico_p: in fact even a better idea than a wps. a "working" wps on error implies to the user that something is working and just things arent shown. if we just show a splash-screen this will be a definite indication of failure |
| 13:46:24 | linuxstb | disorganizer: The point is that this shouldn't happen - i.e. users should be using (the new) rockbox-themes.org and all themes there will be guaranteed to work with official Rockbox. |
| 13:46:26 | Nico_P | I was suggesting showing a splash screen, then the default WPS |
| 13:47:09 | * | linuxstb is happy with a splash, then the current default. |
| 13:47:14 | disorganizer | ok. but please let them press a button to show the default wps. and the splash should say: error in wps, use checkwps to verify. press any key to continue with the default wps. or something like that |
| 13:47:15 | pixelma | linuxstb: re. "then you need checkwps" - does it run on the target? I sometimes did minor fixes to a .wps file directly on target using the text editor... |
| 13:47:39 | linuxstb | pixelma: No, it doesn't. Although it probably wouldn't be too hard to make it a viewer - a nice idea... |
| 13:48:13 | Nico_P | linuxstb: how would that be done? |
| 13:48:29 | linuxstb | Although the errors are DEBUGF statements, so wouldn't be compiled on target.... |
| 13:49:16 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I'm not sure it could be now... |
| 13:49:44 | Nico_P | yeah I don't think it would be trivial unfortunately |
| 13:49:56 | linuxstb | Nico_P: My initial thought was simply that tools/checkwps.c could become a plugin. But that won't work as it relies on DEBUGF statements for the useful error messages... |
| 13:50:22 | Nico_P | yes, and all the rb-> in front of "system" calls |
| 13:50:36 | pixelma | my checkwps is "staring at the code of the wps" most of the times anyways... ;) |
| 13:51:11 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Yes, it would be a program based on checkwps.c, not the same .c file. |
| 13:51:31 | | Nick dionoea_ is now known as dionoea (n=dionoea@yop.chewa.net) |
| 13:52:33 | linuxstb | pixelma: Anyway, if you want to try it, just type "make checkwps" in the tools/ directory of the source, then do something like (if you're in tools/) ./checkwps ../simdir/archos/.rockbox/wps/mywps.wps |
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| 13:56:00 | * | disorganizer had the linuxstb-statusbar-hack running today on his way to work, and it is indeed nice :-) |
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| 14:00 |
| 14:02:57 | amiconn | linuxstb: checkwps.c as a plugin could just redefine DEBUGF() |
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| 14:03:51 | disorganizer | linuxstb: did you see the list-size patch? will the screen-clearing conflict with the possibility to have a custom statusbar in general or is it just the method you hack works that causes the screen clearing to disturb sb display? |
| 14:06:10 | * | Nico_P voluteers to add the "WPS load error" splash after he eats his lunch |
| 14:06:23 | linuxstb | amiconn: To what? The DEBUGFs are in the core code (wps parser), so making them do something on target would affect the core. But maybe they could just encode the error in a few ints somewhere... |
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| 14:07:30 | amiconn | I thought checkwps would have the parser compiled in? |
| 14:07:47 | linuxstb | disorganizer: No, I haven't looked at that patch. My solution (hack?) so far is to make the status bar contain viewports which completely fill the screen (along with the list viewport), so the status bar in effect clears the unused parts of the screen. |
| 14:08:07 | | Join piga [0] (n=leonardo@201.82.10.156) |
| 14:08:24 | linuxstb | amiconn: Yes, it does. But I was thinking of the plugin version of checkwps using the core code (via rb->), rather than compiling it in. But compiling it into the plugin is a better idea... |
| 14:09:47 | | Quit piga (Client Quit) |
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| 14:10:33 | linuxstb | So yes, I think that could work... |
| 14:11:07 | * | pixelma still wonders about the long(er) delay between showing the bootlogo and the start screen (leaving a blank screen for a while and make Rockbox feel sluggish) |
| 14:11:16 | * | amiconn wonders whether disorganizer is aware of the variety of targets rockbox is running on when suggesting splash texts |
| 14:11:31 | linuxstb | splash essays... ;) |
| 14:12:04 | * | B4gder whistles |
| 14:12:45 | * | linuxstb does the death of FILES dance |
| 14:13:55 | linuxstb | B4gder: Did you include the manual? |
| 14:14:03 | B4gder | yes |
| 14:14:14 | B4gder | this is a plain 'svn ls -R' in the svn root |
| 14:14:30 | B4gder | uh trunk |
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| 14:16:01 | * | disorganizer wonders if it would be possible to let checkwps correct common errors. like auto-converting from older (official) wps syntax (vp without font to with font, for example) |
| 14:16:32 | amiconn | B4gder: where did http://www.rockbox.org/irc/listlogs.pl go? |
| 14:16:51 | linuxstb | disorganizer: What was "vp without font" ? |
| 14:16:59 | B4gder | amiconn: I guess it wasn't copied to svn |
| 14:17:02 | disorganizer | amiconn: no :-) we dont even need to display a graphic, just some kind of text. |
| 14:17:22 | amiconn | disorganizer: It was the text (specifically its length) I was referring to |
| 14:17:44 | disorganizer | linuxstb: wasnt there a time when the viewports used %v without the font? (im not sure though whether it was still in the patch stage back then) |
| 14:17:48 | linuxstb | amiconn: I think it's in SVN though - the www module |
| 14:17:49 | disorganizer | amiconn: let it scroll? |
| 14:17:55 | amiconn | B4gder: Could we get that back, please? |
| 14:17:56 | | Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 14:18:11 | amiconn | disorganizer: Check how many *screens* that text would fill on archos Player... |
| 14:18:13 | B4gder | I'm sure we can, we need to poke zagor |
| 14:18:13 | linuxstb | amiconn: Ignore me... |
| 14:18:25 | * | amiconn likes to have grepable logs |
| 14:19:07 | disorganizer | amiconn: hmmm. what about "wps brkn:chkwps!" then ? ;-) |
| 14:19:29 | * | Nico_P was thinking of a plain "WPS load error" |
| 14:20:04 | linuxstb | "Invalid WPS" ? |
| 14:20:11 | Llorean | Nico_P: "WPS Broken" or "Invalid WPS" is better I think |
| 14:20:18 | Llorean | Load Error makes me think the load failed, rather than the WPS is bad. |
| 14:20:48 | Nico_P | good point |
| 14:21:05 | disorganizer | would "wps error" for the targets with small "screen" fit? and a pointing to checkwps for bigger screens? |
| 14:21:36 | | Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu) |
| 14:21:58 | * | Llorean thinks pointing to checkwps can be reserved for the manual |
| 14:22:18 | amiconn | "Invalid WPS file" would work |
| 14:23:32 | linuxstb | Do we want different messages for wps and rwps? |
| 14:26:07 | JdGordon | no need |
| 14:27:04 | Nico_P | WPS and RWPS are loaded with different code, so having disting messages is quite easy if we don't localise them |
| 14:29:37 | Nico_P | how come colors don't change immediately on a theme change? a list-viewports issue? |
| 14:30:03 | JdGordon | which ones? |
| 14:30:18 | JdGordon | they shuold, and in my (obviously crappy) testing they did |
| 14:30:29 | linuxstb | JdGordon: Did you see the latest FS task? |
| 14:30:39 | * | linuxstb just noticed his reply... |
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| 14:31:47 | JdGordon | ok, wtf? the colours were working when i checked in :'( |
| 14:31:50 | Nico_P | fg and bg |
| 14:31:56 | * | JdGordon has a look |
| 14:32:12 | * | JdGordon tihnks the BB commit may have rebroekn it |
| 14:33:57 | JdGordon | yep, accidently reverted a bit i meant to commit |
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| 14:36:55 | JdGordon | those mr100 and m3 pics looks odd amongst the other ones :p |
| 14:37:24 | pixelma | I'm working on "fixing" that ;) |
| 14:38:15 | JdGordon | while your at it... wanna add some height to the c200 image so its not up in the air? |
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| 14:39:42 | pixelma | I believe that was discussed when adding the picture (and some things were tried) but I don't remember why and how this way was chosen |
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| 14:41:25 | * | disorganizer wonders if it would be possible to add an indication of the backlight status to the simulator somehow. for example drawing a white border around the lcd if bl is on. |
| 14:42:12 | * | petur thought background color changed |
| 14:42:17 | Nico_P | hmm the "invalid WPS" splash is hidden by "settings lodaded" when the WPS is loaded as part of a theme |
| 14:42:22 | Nico_P | petur: not on color targets |
| 14:42:24 | JdGordon | we used to and it does |
| 14:42:51 | pixelma | we once had a "backlight: on" notice in the console... |
| 14:43:01 | petur | Nico_P: right... remembered seeing it for the remote of h300, not the main lcd :/ |
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| 14:47:49 | disorganizer | @pixelma: no backlight message. just checked |
| 14:48:08 | JdGordon | it was removed months ago |
| 14:48:27 | pixelma | I know, it was removed. That's why I said "once had" |
| 14:48:34 | Rincewind | about the gsoc proposal, I see that there are two text fields, one for the abstact and one for the longer proposal, write these independently from each other or is it ok to put an overview in the abstract and details in the main field, without paraphrasing the abstract again? |
| 14:48:47 | | Quit Cricri ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 14:49:02 | Rincewind | oh, there is a " should I" missing |
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| 14:51:36 | | Quit japc ("Ex-Chat") |
| 14:51:41 | JdGordon | Rincewind: either or |
| 14:51:43 | B4gder | tarball now as 7z tarball |
| 14:51:58 | | Join japc [0] (n=japc@194.65.5.235) |
| 14:52:09 | B4gder | I'll just need to tweak the daily build script too and some more |
| 14:52:27 | | Join clinx [0] (n=clinx@dslb-084-061-243-145.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:52:34 | clinx | hi |
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| 14:53:13 | Rincewind | JdGordon: I suppose the question is, do you recieve the abstract and the proposal independantly from each other or do you read the abstract first and then the proposal? |
| 14:53:15 | clinx | can i use a modified rockbox logo for my own program |
| 14:53:34 | kugel | I get this compiling error again: http://pastebin.ca/958087 |
| 14:54:54 | kugel | 2 days ago, I installed a teamspeak, which installed few libasound packages. Compiling sim still worked. |
| 14:54:54 | | Quit Cricri (Client Quit) |
| 14:55:39 | JdGordon | Rincewind: I dunno |
| 14:56:02 | kugel | Yesterday, afer I booted my PC up, I had this issue. So I unstalled teamspeak and the packages again (without reboot) and compiling worked again. And today, there is this again. |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:47 | | Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 15:01:51 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:02:03 | kugel | Hmm, I reinsatlled libasound2 and it seems to work (until next reboot probably) |
| 15:03:08 | linuxstb | Rincewind: If I remember correctly from last year, we view the applications via the google website, and see the abstract first, followed by the detailed description. |
| 15:04:07 | B4gder | amiconn: listlogs.pl is back |
| 15:04:38 | Rincewind | linuxstb: that's good, then I don't have to repeat myself. I want to put the general idea in the abstract (which should be understandable without knowing Rockbox), this wouldn't make much sense in the detailed description |
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| 15:06:33 | Rincewind | does anyone here know a quick way to count the characters of a text? (in linux commands, or emacs) |
| 15:06:44 | linuxstb | wc |
| 15:06:54 | Ave | unicode chars? |
| 15:06:57 | Ave | thats tougher |
| 15:07:16 | Ave | but wc will do, or simply "ls -al" or so |
| 15:07:32 | Ave | assuming ascii or isolatin encoding |
| 15:07:34 | B4gder | count-lines-region in emacs speak |
| 15:08:20 | pixelma | B4gder: do you remember why the small c200.png is used as is? Should I bother adding some transparent space above or below and make it the same overall height as the others? |
| 15:08:33 | Rincewind | B4gder: thanks, that's perfect |
| 15:09:12 | B4gder | pixelma: nah, i think it works fine as it is |
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| 15:10:12 | kugel | disorganizer: I think I fixed the issue |
| 15:11:04 | markun | pixelma: We're making some progress with the meizu m6/m3 port. Do you feel like making a few vector drawings of the various models? |
| 15:11:43 | markun | the m6sp and m6sl look the same, except for the label on one of the buttons |
| 15:12:03 | pixelma | I first feel like finishing the M3 drawing and then making an M:Robe 100 one... |
| 15:12:33 | markun | of course. We don't have any code running on the meizu anyway |
| 15:13:26 | pixelma | you only get a drawing once there is a build ore even a manual available for it :P |
| 15:14:16 | markun | a good motivation to hurry up then :) |
| 15:15:23 | gevaerts | We could finish the manual ;) |
| 15:16:03 | disorganizer | @ all who are intersted regarding mf: i found the page http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FontSystemProposal from 05/2007. wouldnt that solve the font-glyphcaching "problem" with multifont? |
| 15:16:14 | disorganizer | @ kugel: will test asap |
| 15:17:17 | disorganizer | @kugel : please put it on fs, if possible as modification of custom_list_vp_v3.diff |
| 15:17:28 | kugel | sure |
| 15:17:45 | markun | disorganizer: I started to work on (hopefully) better font system with support for multiple fonts, but lost my interest a bit |
| 15:18:00 | | Quit midgey () |
| 15:18:01 | kugel | disorganizer: No, I have removed the hack in my version too, and added something new |
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| 15:19:26 | disorganizer | @markun : and if i say please ? ;-) could you share your thoughts in the multifont fs entry? maybe someone else could take over from there |
| 15:19:52 | markun | disorganizer: ok, but not now |
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| 15:20:21 | disorganizer | @markun: np, tnx |
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| 15:26:08 | linuxstb | disorganizer: I don't think anyone wants freetype in Rockbox... |
| 15:27:59 | disorganizer | why not? at least we could try to copy the caching algorythm :-) |
| 15:28:13 | markun | go ahead |
| 15:28:30 | disorganizer | @kugel : if you upload to fs i can test |
| 15:28:43 | linuxstb | disorganizer: For all the reasons listed at the bottom of that wiki page... |
| 15:28:49 | kugel | disorganizer: Yeah, I'm at it. |
| 15:28:56 | kugel | I just need to post a comment |
| 15:29:52 | disorganizer | @linuxstb: i missed the m-word in there. so propably the page should be moved to the garbage ? |
| 15:30:32 | linuxstb | It's just a proposal - it's not doing much harm there... |
| 15:32:02 | kugel | disorganizer: done |
| 15:32:27 | amiconn | markun: fyi - the rockbox font system was not written as a whole by that chinese contributor, only the lru caching was |
| 15:32:52 | amiconn | The font system itself is based on microwindows (or whatever it's called today) |
| 15:33:28 | disorganizer | linuxstb: ok. just thought that it would make more sense in the museum as it is would never be implemented |
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| 15:35:19 | kugel | What means "NIH" (listed in the disadvantages) |
| 15:35:20 | | Quit johnny7 (Client Quit) |
| 15:36:02 | LinusN | Not Invented Here |
| 15:36:34 | LinusN | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Invented_Here |
| 15:36:54 | kugel | Ah ok |
| 15:36:57 | kugel | thanks |
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| 15:39:35 | markun_ | amiconn: ah, thanks |
| 15:41:23 | Nico_P | kugel: what page are you referring to? |
| 15:41:38 | kugel | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FontSystemProposal |
| 15:41:55 | | Quit markun_ (Client Quit) |
| 15:42:00 | Nico_P | thanks |
| 15:42:36 | disorganizer | @kugel: is it on purpose that it scrolls up on the line before the last? |
| 15:42:55 | | Quit webguest1234 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 15:43:10 | kugel | disorganizer: You mean in the settings? |
| 15:43:28 | Llorean | kugel: Please, respect the idea of trying to save binsize where possible, and not cluttering the UI with "reset" options for every submenu. |
| 15:43:36 | kugel | Please look at apps/gui/bitmap/list.c, I have made a comment regarding that |
| 15:43:52 | kugel | Llorean: Then remove reset colors from SVN please |
| 15:44:17 | disorganizer | if i see a list, and scroll down (like in fileview) then it scrolls up in the line before the last line. (lets say i have 10 lines in the displayed vp, but 15 lines to display, i go down until i reach line 9 and then it scrolls instead of when i selected line 10) |
| 15:44:24 | kugel | Llorean: I have stated why I want that option |
| 15:44:26 | Llorean | kugel: "They did it so I get to" is not a valid argument |
| 15:44:30 | Llorean | kugel: You stated you want it for testing. |
| 15:44:39 | Llorean | A .cfg file works for testing. |
| 15:44:45 | kugel | Llorean: That's 1 reason, not the only one |
| 15:44:50 | Llorean | That's the reason you listed. |
| 15:45:45 | kugel | disorganizer: That's normal behavior |
| 15:46:01 | kugel | disorganizer: This happens w/o my patch too |
| 15:46:20 | disorganizer | @kugel: ok then. didnt notice before, maybe didnt pay attention enough :-) |
| 15:46:58 | Llorean | kugel: In the official build, where themes come from the official repository (so, they're non-broken) what purpose does that option serve? |
| 15:47:43 | kugel | Llorean: "They did it too" is valid for me, since it shows that the bin size increase is worth a reset option at times |
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| 15:49:07 | Llorean | kugel: That doesn't answer my question regarding its purpose. |
| 15:49:31 | Llorean | In fact I have no idea why you added menu options for resizing the list viewport in the first place, honestly |
| 15:49:45 | Llorean | It doesn't seem like a thing that should be manipulated interactively. |
| 15:49:46 | linuxstb | IMO, the user can simply load a theme to reset all theme settings back to a sensible state - so even "reset colours" can go. |
| 15:49:53 | Llorean | linuxstb: Agreed. |
| 15:50:04 | kugel | Llorean: I allready told you, that the purpose is to have a quick way to do 4 jobs in one. Especially since this 4 jobs might be painful when the list is messed up extremly |
| 15:50:22 | Llorean | kugel: If the list is messed up too extremely then you can't get to the option either. Argument is null. |
| 15:50:44 | kugel | I could, since the icons where still visible when I tried it |
| 15:50:50 | * | gevaerts wants to know how Bagder managed to get 7zip compress better than 7zip |
| 15:51:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | Lack of coffee? |
| 15:51:03 | kugel | and if it's null, what's the reason for having the reset color option? |
| 15:51:06 | Llorean | kugel: Then you had enough information to use the other options. |
| 15:51:16 | Llorean | kugel: there is no reason for the reset color option, really. It should be removed. |
| 15:51:33 | Llorean | linuxstb: I really, really don't think you need to be able to resize the list from within the rockbox menu system anyway. |
| 15:51:51 | kugel | So you like hidden cfg values? |
| 15:52:36 | Llorean | kugel: Where in the menu system can you describe WPSes? |
| 15:52:37 | linuxstb | For themes, I think it's inevitable - as we make more and more things customisable, we don't want to bloat the UI with code to edit everything |
| 15:53:05 | disorganizer | i must admit i can see that point of llorean. the viewport-sizing is extremely theme dependant as the wps and other parts of the viewport system needs to fit. so setting this will propably in the future break the themes, this it should not be settable by the user |
| 15:53:06 | Llorean | Most aspects of themeing don't need, or explicitly should not have, menu options. |
| 15:53:24 | kugel | The options also offer to otimize the list settings quickly, without the painfull editting the theme.cfg with the rockbox text editor and reloading all the time |
| 15:53:50 | linuxstb | But the question then becomes what is a theme setting, and what isn't? e.g. is the status bar visibility setting part of the theme? Custom list positions and status bar visibility are interlinked... |
| 15:53:52 | | Quit Cricri ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 15:54:03 | disorganizer | @kugel: the user should not be able to edit that for the reasons i stated above. viewports have to fit against each other, especially when we talk about statusbar-viewportification |
| 15:54:26 | Llorean | kugel: A customized list position will be part of a theme. Since the theme designer knows the backdrop dimensions, and the location of additional viewports, there's no "trial and error", there's simple, objective numbers. |
| 15:55:08 | Llorean | linuxstb: I think "if it can conflict with non-interactively settable settings, it probably shouldn't be interactively settable" is at least a good basic guideline. |
| 15:55:19 | Llorean | Exceptions will always happen though |
| 15:55:47 | kugel | disorganizer: I don't get your point actually. Breaking themes isn't an issue as we know |
| 15:56:36 | disorganizer | it will be. imagine we have custom statusbars. so the statusbar viewport is using y-values 0-15 and 200-250. now the list viewport should use 16-199, and the user can not know this. |
| 15:56:48 | Llorean | kugel: Except you're trying to put in a "break this working theme" option. |
| 15:56:54 | disorganizer | if the user is able to change those values, he can easily break the theme |
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| 15:57:35 | kugel | disorganizer: Sorry, but I don't take a possibility, which is far away from being in svn into account |
| 15:57:37 | disorganizer | and the user normally wont need to change it anyways, as it will be part of a theme with visuals fitting together (hopefully) |
| 15:58:09 | disorganizer | actually i think its as far away from svn as any custom build :-) |
| 15:58:12 | Llorean | kugel: you HAVE to take it into account. It's a planned feature, and you're writing a patch with the intent to go alongside that planned feature. |
| 15:58:39 | kugel | I don't since there's no way to know how to take it into account |
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| 15:59:04 | Llorean | kugel: Not allowing users to dynamically resize the list is a good way to take it into account |
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| 16:00 |
| 16:00:12 | Llorean | kugel: I don't understand what your problem is. There's certain aspects of your patch that make it unsuitable for inclusion, and you seem explicitly disinterested in trying to resolve these. |
| 16:00:17 | Llorean | They cause usability problems. |
| 16:01:00 | kugel | I just don't see what's wrong about having this options, honestly |
| 16:01:05 | disorganizer | why not split it up into 2 patch-files. one with the function and not the settings, and one to add the settings :-) |
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| 16:02:09 | Llorean | kugel: 1) It provides an easy opportunity for a user to mess things up, 2) It wastes bin size while doing so, 3) It's completely unnecessary. |
| 16:02:19 | | Quit TMM (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:02:49 | Llorean | kugel: Whether you can see what's wrong with it or not doesn't change the fact that those aspects of the patch are unlikely to be accepted, so you might as well fix them now |
| 16:02:53 | kugel | Llorean: Why do we have settings anyway? We can edit the config, so why do we waste bin size on that? |
| 16:03:11 | Llorean | kugel: Now you're just being pointlessly argumentative. |
| 16:03:24 | Llorean | Viewport size is not something you need, or have any good reason, to change while using the player. |
| 16:03:45 | Llorean | It should always be set properly by the theme, and every theme should change it to a valid setting. It's not a "user configurable" option. |
| 16:03:49 | linuxstb | kugel: There has long been a view amongst the devs that Rockbox has too many settings - so we think long and hard about any new ones. I agree that manual editing of the list position doesn't see a very useful feature. |
| 16:04:00 | Llorean | Just like we don't let users directly set the playback buffer size. There are values determined by other values that don't need direct interaction. |
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| 16:05:03 | linuxstb | kugel: So at the very least, I think you should make that part of the patch separate, so it can be discussed separately. |
| 16:05:19 | linuxstb | (and not distract from the rest of your patch) |
| 16:06:21 | kugel | I'd probably do it. But I'd rather focussing on the remaining TODOs for now before I mess around with 2 patches |
| 16:08:33 | scorche|sh | it would take 5 min...if that... |
| 16:09:02 | | Quit sarixe ("(EE) Failed to load "quit" module") |
| 16:10:37 | Llorean | kugel: Then why not remove the code, and create the second patch later? |
| 16:11:18 | kugel | Because I want that for testing while I fix the other issues |
| 16:11:45 | kugel | If you don't want it in the svn, ok. but I want that for testing |
| 16:11:52 | Llorean | Then you can have it locally? |
| 16:12:16 | Llorean | If you want a reset option that's not meant to be there for users, put it in the debug menu. |
| 16:12:32 | Llorean | It's a way of saying "I need this, but it's not meant to be there for the user version" |
| 16:13:02 | kugel | I'd want it for the user too, you know. You don't want to |
| 16:13:18 | scorche|sh | it isnt just him... |
| 16:14:04 | Llorean | kugel: The patch tracker is "for things intending to be included in SVN." What part of this is confusing? |
| 16:14:14 | kugel | "You" was meant to mean Llorean exclusivly |
| 16:15:15 | kugel | Llorean: I come to that, when the patch reaches a committable state |
| 16:15:46 | scorche|sh | kugel: you are missing the point... |
| 16:15:54 | Llorean | kugel: What's the harm in fixing it now, so that testers aren't mislead? |
| 16:16:22 | Llorean | You know, at this point, that several committers including the one most likely to be the one who commits it lean in favour of not having it in the menus. |
| 16:16:47 | scorche|sh | in fact, are there any committers around who would rather have the options in? |
| 16:17:11 | Llorean | On an unrelated note, anyone here us RBUtility for more than one player? |
| 16:19:44 | pondlife | I dp |
| 16:19:51 | pondlife | Gigabeat and H300 |
| 16:20:06 | Llorean | pondlife: Do you use the auto-detect feature ever? |
| 16:20:17 | pondlife | Yes, every time I switch |
| 16:20:23 | Llorean | Hmm... |
| 16:20:44 | Llorean | Which SVN revision's yours built from? |
| 16:21:09 | pondlife | r16357 |
| 16:21:16 | Llorean | Interesting. |
| 16:21:17 | pondlife | 1.0.4 off the wiki |
| 16:21:19 | Llorean | Yeah, same here |
| 16:21:27 | Llorean | Mine seems to not like autodetecting. |
| 16:21:29 | pondlife | I can't build RbUtil here |
| 16:21:35 | pondlife | Which devices? |
| 16:21:37 | | Quit piga (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:21:52 | | Quit japc (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:22:31 | Llorean | pondlife: And this test it worked. Gigabeat, e200, c200 |
| 16:22:44 | Llorean | I'm wondering if it's just a case of "every time I've tested it, I was updating from a very old build" |
| 16:22:53 | pondlife | I've never had it fail... |
| 16:23:20 | kugel | What do you guys think about customlist on remotes? I don't own a player with a remote, and honestly I don't know in which aspects the remotes are themable |
| 16:23:32 | Llorean | pondlife: It fails silently for me. Just doesn't change which player is displayed. |
| 16:24:05 | | Join japc [0] (n=japc@194.65.5.235) |
| 16:24:15 | Llorean | kugel: Remotes have WPSs, they currently use the same font as the main screen (likely to change), and from a user perspective are essentially a second screen for their player that is as affected by themes as the main screen. |
| 16:25:59 | kugel | Can have remotes backdrops? |
| 16:26:10 | * | linuxstb doesn't understand the C240's keymap... |
| 16:26:35 | * | gevaerts tells linuxstb to implement customizable keymaps |
| 16:26:44 | * | gevaerts hides |
| 16:26:48 | Llorean | linuxstb: I've got a couple fixes in mind for it, once I'm compiling again actually |
| 16:26:57 | Llorean | but you can't do much from how it's laid out. |
| 16:27:28 | Llorean | Again, I'll put them on a tracker for 6 months, when nobody comments, commit them, then get yelled at, of course. |
| 16:27:31 | Llorean | Once my laptop is back. |
| 16:27:51 | kugel | Does anyone know why the statusbar is turned on the in the radio screen? |
| 16:27:52 | pondlife | Remotes should ideally be equal to main displays in all ways - colour vs greyscale vs mono will be relevant, of course. |
| 16:28:14 | Llorean | kugel: Remotes should be allowed to have backdrops, but I don't think there are any suitable for them yet |
| 16:28:28 | Llorean | So I don't think anyone's bothered with the functionality to do so |
| 16:29:12 | Llorean | kugel: Because both volume and battery level are still valuable in the Radio screen. |
| 16:29:49 | kugel | Ah, yea, volume/battery isn't shown in the screen itselfs. |
| 16:31:36 | linuxstb | The iaudio (greyscale) remote LCD can have a backdrop |
| 16:32:08 | Llorean | linuxstb: Is there a function for menu backdrops, or just WPS backdrop? |
| 16:32:18 | kugel | So, remotes should be able to use custom list dimensions too I guess |
| 16:32:34 | pondlife | Of course, one per screen |
| 16:32:55 | pondlife | One day we'll find a target with three displays.... |
| 16:32:58 | pondlife | :) |
| 16:33:04 | LambdaCalculus37 | :) |
| 16:33:11 | * | linuxstb notices huge delays with the statusbar when changing volume on the c240 |
| 16:33:16 | pixelma | linuxstb: I changed the c200 keymap on my own builds, I'm still not 100% satisfied with it but always wanted to put it in the tracker for discussion... |
| 16:33:31 | Llorean | pixelma: Do so. :) |
| 16:33:38 | Llorean | linuxstb: using the volume buttons while in the list? |
| 16:33:53 | linuxstb | pixelma: I would be tempted to make the volume buttons scroll - i.e. equivalent to fwd/back on a wheel. |
| 16:33:53 | pondlife | pixelma: Yes, it's your turn to take the keymap heat :) |
| 16:34:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | pondlife: Update on my disktidy.c modifications... I patched my SVN table and compiled for my iPod color, and casually browsed it in Dolphin. Disktidy found and deleted all .dolphinview files found. |
| 16:34:06 | gevaerts | pondlife: I'll start work on my c200-as-USB-remote ASAP |
| 16:34:32 | pondlife | hehe, can we get a USB hub or 2 in there... |
| 16:34:40 | pixelma | the delayed statusbar update has become more annoying in general |
| 16:34:42 | Llorean | linuxstb: I'd like to make long-select be context menu in the WPS, and I really wouldn't mind the volume buttons scrolling (I'd use that personally, but wouldn't have put that in my suggested revision of the keymap) |
| 16:34:58 | kugel | Hmm, quickscreen isn't using vp yet |
| 16:34:59 | linuxstb | pixelma: Then the keymap would be identical to ipods, with the exception of the menu/play being swapped, a dedicated "stop/off" button (power) and the record button. |
| 16:35:09 | | Part LinusN |
| 16:35:19 | pixelma | linuxstb: that's what I'd like to avoid (scrolling with up/down) because it forces me to two handed operation... |
| 16:35:29 | Llorean | linuxstb: You're basically talking about the e200 keymap, but with the "wheel" on the e200 being the volume buttons on the c200. |
| 16:35:33 | gevaerts | pondlife: of course. I'll attach 120 c200-remotes to my gigabeat once I'm bored from building Towers |
| 16:35:51 | pondlife | A fully functional Web Of Rockbox |
| 16:36:14 | linuxstb | pixelma: Yes, I can see the disadvantage in it as well... |
| 16:36:55 | linuxstb | How do I return from the file browser to the WPS? i.e. the "play" button? |
| 16:36:55 | pixelma | volume up/down, of course |
| 16:37:19 | gevaerts | pondlife: it will provide a tiled 1320x960 screen |
| 16:37:19 | pixelma | ahem... it's some weird combo (rec + up, I think) |
| 16:37:42 | linuxstb | Long-press on rec started a recording ;) |
| 16:37:55 | Llorean | linuxstb: Select goes to the browser. |
| 16:37:56 | linuxstb | Or rather, took me to the recording screen. |
| 16:38:05 | Llorean | linuxstb: "power" is the main menu |
| 16:38:07 | linuxstb | Llorean: And then how do I get back? |
| 16:38:09 | | Quit corevette ("Leaving") |
| 16:38:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: Not rec + up. |
| 16:38:14 | pixelma | I changed that to "volume up" in my own build (hence sacrificing adjusting volume in lists) but I've been thinking about a short rec |
| 16:38:19 | Llorean | linuxstb: Oh, got what you wanted backward. |
| 16:38:28 | Llorean | linuxstb: I've been using the "Now Playing" menu option... |
| 16:38:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | Me too. |
| 16:38:59 | linuxstb | So it's missing a "play" button? |
| 16:39:20 | pixelma | ("short rec" currently is "enter recording screen" but I could live with that being on "long rec"...) |
| 16:39:31 | pixelma | yes, there is no "resume" button currently |
| 16:39:32 | * | Llorean supposes someone could check /apps/keymaps_c200.c or appropriate almost that named file. |
| 16:39:52 | Llorean | pixelma: I think recording should always require a long press to get there. Make it very explicit. |
| 16:39:59 | * | linuxstb looks forward to pixelma's cleanup, and won't use his c240 again to avoid confusion ;) |
| 16:40:20 | pondlife | Is the H300 using short REC, or long REC? |
| 16:40:24 | pixelma | Llorean: what do you think about short rec being resume then? |
| 16:40:55 | petur | bah, more REC button madness |
| 16:41:14 | * | linuxstb wonders if Sansa designed the c240's buttons just to annoy us |
| 16:41:21 | * | petur votes the usb charging option be moved to the hold switch *again* |
| 16:41:24 | disorganizer | on many sansas i know the rec button is hard to operate. |
| 16:41:44 | | Quit DerDome (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:42:01 | disorganizer | but pressing play should work for the e to go to wps |
| 16:42:34 | * | petur also wonders why recording needs a dedicated button. And why radio not? Why is it hard to pick recording from the menu? |
| 16:42:38 | pixelma | Llorean: as I said - currently I have resume on "volume up" and stop (in the tree/menus) on "volume down"... though |
| 16:43:11 | pixelma | but this way I can't set volume in the tree/menu of course |
| 16:43:51 | pixelma | disorganizer: that's the problem on the c - the "play" button is also used as "up"... |
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| 16:44:29 | Llorean | pixelma: I wouldn't object to that. Most of the changes I'd like to make apply to the WPS (similar to the changes I made on e200). |
| 16:44:45 | pixelma | disorganizer: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansac200/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-270003.1.1 |
| 16:44:47 | Llorean | While I like trying to match button labels, sometimes usability is also important. :) |
| 16:45:24 | Llorean | I'd rather use the volume buttons than short-rec, honestly, though. |
| 16:46:05 | pixelma | my changes don't touch the WPS controls (resume, radio, recording and virtual keyboard annoyed me more...) |
| 16:46:27 | Llorean | Heh |
| 16:47:07 | pixelma | I should just post the WIP (just need to make sure it still applies) |
| 16:47:09 | disorganizer | @pixelma: sorry, i found out you are talking c instead of e :-) i am ashame |
| 16:48:53 | disorganizer | but shouldnt it be like with the e-series? volupdown for scrolling, play for wps, ... ? |
| 16:49:16 | linuxstb | Copying the ipod keymap, we could have the up/down/left/right/select on the C240 acting the same as scroll/left/right/center on the wheel, the menu button as menu, and the REC button as play/pause |
| 16:49:41 | Llorean | disorganizer: The vol up/down are awkward to use on the c200, they are on "top" and face left/right rather than up/down. |
| 16:49:46 | linuxstb | (long REC = stop, very long REC = off) |
| 16:49:58 | pixelma | the thing is that you lose overview if you're working at to many things at one :\ |
| 16:50:25 | pixelma | *once |
| 16:52:00 | * | pixelma should just start ignoring her typos... ;) |
| 16:52:17 | linuxstb | Anyway, there seems to be a huge lag in the status bar in the file browser on the C240, but not in the menus... (when changing volume) |
| 16:52:42 | | Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) |
| 16:52:49 | markun | Soon we'll have 2 M3 players, will add even more confusion. |
| 16:52:53 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 16:53:07 | linuxstb | markun: I told you, you're not allowed to port to another M3 ;) |
| 16:53:08 | gevaerts | pixelma: just blame your keyboard |
| 16:54:07 | linuxstb | Anyone have a gigabeat handy to see if there is a similar bug when changing volume there? (compare menu with file browser) |
| 16:55:27 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: No Gigabeat, but I also have noticed the lag in the status bar in the file browser on my c240 as well. |
| 16:55:41 | amiconn | linuxstb: The huge status bar lag was introduced by list viewports, I think |
| 16:56:16 | linuxstb | amiconn: Have you noticed it in both the file browser and menus? It seems to be significantly worse in the file browser |
| 16:56:45 | amiconn | I didn't notice it in the menus, but then I've set my targets to start up in the browser |
| 16:57:04 | linuxstb | It seems OK in the menus. |
| 16:57:10 | amiconn | You can do an experiment, if you have a target with soft disk led: |
| 16:57:29 | amiconn | Disable dircache, database auto-update etc.. Then reboot. |
| 16:58:03 | amiconn | You'll notice that the disk activity icon stays for 10 seconds or more after the disk stopped spinning... |
| 16:58:18 | kugel | Does anyone know what happened about viewportifying quickscreen? JdGordon did some start (which was reverted quickly) |
| 16:58:20 | linuxstb | Yes, the delay seems similar to that when changing volume in the lists on the c240 |
| 16:59:37 | linuxstb | In fact it's not that, it seems the status bar isn't being updated as long as there are button events - i.e. the volume will change as soon as I release the volume button |
| 16:59:48 | Llorean | linuxstb: On my gigabeat, the status bar volume changes from within lists also lag (though last time i looked it wasn't as much as my c200 is lagging right now) |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:10 | linuxstb | s/as soon as/about a second after/ |
| 17:01:32 | pixelma | linuxstb: I noticed yesterday that the statusbar lag from going WPS -> browsers/menus became more obvious on the Ondio because now it still shows the part of the WPS in that area until the statusbar is updated (before it was blanked) |
| 17:01:53 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:05:37 | pixelma | and a longer delay from clearing the bootloago to showing the start screeen (file browser here) |
| 17:07:32 | | Quit disorganizer ("CGI:IRC") |
| 17:07:48 | | Join ZincAlloy [0] (n=d9eee2f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-955e635664245cad) |
| 17:08:35 | ZincAlloy | hi everybody! |
| 17:09:51 | pixelma | howdy :) |
| 17:10:25 | ZincAlloy | how's it going? |
| 17:11:32 | pixelma | good, but I must point at the channel topic... |
| 17:11:57 | ZincAlloy | oh, I see |
| 17:13:15 | * | linuxstb wonders why the Sansa bootloader becomes verbose when USB is inserted |
| 17:14:13 | linuxstb | Anyone object to me fixing that? |
| 17:14:30 | Llorean | Nope |
| 17:21:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | Nope. |
| 17:21:51 | linuxstb | Anyone know why the M:Robe 100 bootloader uses "Power" to go to the OF, rather than Left (like all the other PP bootloaders) ? |
| 17:22:44 | Llorean | Non-iPod PP rather? |
| 17:22:46 | ZincAlloy | speaking of bootloaders. the h300 bootloader is behaving oddly. after unplugging the power supply I need to push the stop button for it to display the "charging complete" screen and shutting down. play/on will start up the original firmware |
| 17:23:13 | linuxstb | Llorean: Yes - the bootloaders in "main-pp.c" |
| 17:23:19 | Llorean | Ah |
| 17:23:50 | linuxstb | And on other bootloaders, only one button is used to make the messages verbose, the PP bootloaders were verbose if any button was pressed (including USB insertion) |
| 17:24:02 | linuxstb | e.g. RIGHT on the ipods |
| 17:27:25 | linuxstb | Is it something I've just done, or is bootloader USB detection broken in the Sansa bootloaders in SVN? |
| 17:27:57 | linuxstb | s/Sansa/C240/ |
| 17:30:06 | linuxstb | Yes, reverting to a plain SVN bootloader, USB detection is broken... |
| 17:33:21 | pixelma | USB detection when? |
| 17:34:37 | pixelma | I'm running quite an old bootloader of the time barrywardell tested disabling the refresh database bit on the e200 |
| 17:34:51 | | Quit Nevtus ("Gone") |
| 17:36:32 | linuxstb | USB detection in the bootloader - with a bootloader built from current SVN |
| 17:37:20 | linuxstb | So inserting USB in Rockbox will cause a reboot loop (holding LEFT will stop it and enter the OF) |
| 17:41:57 | * | linuxstb tries to drag on-topic conversations from #rockbox-community |
| 17:42:26 | scorche|sh | so then...would we rather have our GSoC application discussions private in a channel such as #rockbox-mentors, or have it all out in here? |
| 17:43:44 | linuxstb | The SoC page has a comment facility for us to comment directly on applications, but I believe general chat, or chat where we don't get too personal about a specific application should be open. |
| 17:44:27 | gevaerts | I agree, but I guess "too personal" will be different depending on who looks at it. |
| 17:44:40 | GodEater | indeed |
| 17:44:51 | pondlife | It's useful to get input from non-mentors, generally... |
| 17:44:55 | GodEater | we don't need to name names for a student to work out we're talking about their application |
| 17:45:18 | GodEater | pondlife: I'd include project old-hands too, not just official mentors |
| 17:45:24 | GodEater | it would make the most sense |
| 17:45:33 | linuxstb | But is it a bad thing for a student to know what we think of their application, as long as we're not insulting? |
| 17:45:49 | pondlife | We shouldn't be insulting, even in private |
| 17:45:55 | linuxstb | Exactly. |
| 17:45:58 | | Join Mathiasdm2 [0] (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:46:18 | GodEater | linuxstb: what would you say about our applications so far then ? |
| 17:46:22 | pondlife | If a student is not responding, or progressing, then it's reasonable to discuss that in the open. |
| 17:46:27 | | Quit Mathiasdm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:46:48 | linuxstb | GodEater: That we haven't had any... |
| 17:47:02 | GodEater | linuxstb: yes we have.... |
| 17:47:08 | gevaerts | linuxstb: look again :) |
| 17:47:15 | linuxstb | I have looked.... |
| 17:47:15 | scorche|sh | we have...which brought this whole thing on |
| 17:47:59 | * | GodEater thinks linuxstb possibly hasn't clicked on the "Applications" link |
| 17:48:01 | scorche|sh | and we started discussing that application in -community |
| 17:48:02 | linuxstb | I meant that the "application" we have received doesn't include enough detail and we should ask the student to provide a fuller application. |
| 17:48:06 | | Join Mathiasdm [0] (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:48:11 | * | linuxstb has read it. |
| 17:48:18 | scorche|sh | ah...alright |
| 17:48:26 | GodEater | you're being too obscure for us :) |
| 17:48:28 | * | gevaerts accuses linuxstb of being too subtle for us |
| 17:48:29 | | Quit Mathiasdm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:49:13 | GodEater | well I'd like to bring up scorche|sh's point as well - which is "does a usability study, REALLY belong in the GSoC ideas list" ? |
| 17:49:38 | scorche|sh | markun: since it seems you added the usability study idea onto the list, what were your thoughts on how a student would approach that in a plannable way guaranteeing that a decent bit of actual code work be done? |
| 17:49:40 | linuxstb | It's quite hard for us to remove it now though... |
| 17:50:25 | GodEater | not really - they are, after all, only ideas. Students are encouraged to bring their own... |
| 17:50:53 | linuxstb | I think any application for that project would need to convince us it was a significant project, and that Rockbox could be improved by it. |
| 17:51:46 | | Join RexDart [0] (n=cd9cbcfe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-c4a218fed014e953) |
| 17:51:58 | scorche|sh | i could see a usability study working out if the person applying has a good bit of history in such things, but it isnt really something a first-year uni student without experience in such things can properly do |
| 17:52:16 | scorche|sh | especially without a proper plan |
| 17:52:39 | gevaerts | I think _any_ project is acceptable as long as (a) the application is detailed enough to convey what will be done and how, (b) it is about the right amount of work, and (c) at least one mentor is interested in following it closely |
| 17:53:11 | RexDart | Hmm...does rockbox have known issues with switching between codecs when playing files of different types in a playlist? Mine crashes like a kennedy. |
| 17:53:15 | GodEater | I still think a summer of code project should produce actual code... |
| 17:53:17 | gevaerts | That doesn't mean that just about any project gets to the top of course... |
| 17:53:26 | RexDart | Or does it perhaps have allergies |
| 17:53:30 | linuxstb | I think there's also d) Is generally considered a useful thing to do - i.e. that a significant number of Rockbox users will benefit from it. |
| 17:53:38 | scorche|sh | and this one certainly isnt "a" and it remains to be seen about "b" |
| 17:53:51 | scorche|sh | GodEater: it needs to |
| 17:53:57 | | Quit ZincAlloy ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 17:54:12 | | Join midgey|web [0] (n=8dd3a843@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-318ec502f433ea92) |
| 17:54:30 | GodEater | scorche|sh: that's actually mandated somewhere by google is it ? |
| 17:54:46 | scorche|sh | we could verify that the student doing such a project will produce code if he already has ideas on things to fix |
| 17:54:55 | | Join Nevtus [0] (n=Nevtus@unaffiliated/nevtus) |
| 17:54:56 | scorche|sh | GodEater: well, if it the google summer of CODE |
| 17:55:01 | scorche|sh | s/if// |
| 17:55:09 | linuxstb | And they have to upload their code to google at the end of the summer. |
| 17:55:47 | gevaerts | I can imagine a project that (a) looks at usability issues, and (b) implements a new GUI based on what was found in (a) |
| 17:56:03 | scorche | GodEater: the most relevant FAQ would be http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_doc_proposals |
| 17:56:19 | linuxstb | gevaerts: But what if a) concludes that the current GUI is perfect? ;) |
| 17:56:23 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: and like i said, they alreayd have a few ideas |
| 17:56:31 | scorche|sh | for the reason linuxstb said |
| 17:56:53 | * | pondlife suspects it's not.... ;) |
| 17:57:04 | gevaerts | But I'm not sure if a usability study without access to lots of different DAPs is doable (the simulators don't provide the feel of the actual devices) |
| 17:58:43 | scorche|sh | either way, the usability study idea is quite touchy and so far, it does not seem like this student would do it justice...what we need to do is figure out *exactly* what we want from such a proposal and communicate that to him and the wiki |
| 17:58:57 | RexDart | Hey scorche|sh , was it you yesterday who I was talking to about rockbox crashing with error numbers top-left when I play songs of different formats in a playlist? |
| 17:59:12 | RexDart | And you'd suggested I update rockbox from 16667 or so to a current build |
| 17:59:18 | midgey|web | has any student expressed interest in the plugin localisations or real audio support? |
| 17:59:20 | markun | scorche|sh: I'm not so sure about the usability stuff myself anymore |
| 17:59:21 | scorche|sh | no |
| 17:59:24 | gevaerts | I also think that a usability related project is much harder to evaluate for us than some clearly defined feature like a codec, and therefore needs a stronger proposal |
| 17:59:39 | linuxstb | midgey: Someone mentioned an interest in RA |
| 17:59:50 | scorche|sh | markun: i think it is a great idea, but one that requires past experience and existing idea of what we are doing wrong |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:25 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:01:10 | midgey|web | linuxstb: what happens if two student pick the same project? is one rejected or can the rejected student be transfered over to another proposal? |
| 18:01:52 | scorche|sh | midgey|web: that is entirely up to us...past orgs have had students working on their own implementation of ideas and they picked the best one although that is not an encouraged way to do things |
| 18:02:17 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@h-74-0-180-178.snvacaid.covad.net) |
| 18:02:20 | linuxstb | midgey|web: I think that happened last year, and we (the mentors) voted on which applications to recommend to Google. So in effect we picked the best of the two competing applications, and the second student got nothing. |
| 18:02:48 | Nico_P | if the second student made other applications he still has his chance though |
| 18:02:51 | linuxstb | midgey|web: Are you also thinking of applying for RA? |
| 18:03:13 | midgey|web | both projects sounded interesting to me |
| 18:03:33 | linuxstb | Plugin localisation is another project I'm not sure about - is it big enough for a summer of work? |
| 18:03:55 | Nico_P | is multifont a SoC idea? |
| 18:04:00 | scorche|sh | we really should have had this discussion a week ago =/ |
| 18:04:03 | linuxstb | I thought it had been designed, just not implemented |
| 18:04:17 | midgey|web | possibly, i was planning on adding voice to plugins if i completed the project early |
| 18:04:18 | linuxstb | scorche|sh: Yes... But better now than in 1 weeks time... |
| 18:04:57 | linuxstb | There are probably other voice-related things that could be included - e.g. voicing the database. |
| 18:04:57 | | Join ZincAlloy [0] (n=d9eee2f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7bd8bf82b39c8c87) |
| 18:04:58 | midgey|web | multifont is probably not big enough for a summer either |
| 18:05:14 | scorche|sh | midgey|web: well, get crackin on those applications! ;) ...it doesnt hurt you in any way to apply for more than one project |
| 18:05:29 | linuxstb | So the project could be "extend the voice and localisation support in Rockbox' |
| 18:05:33 | | Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:05:35 | midgey|web | scorche|sh: after this exam tonight I will :) |
| 18:05:41 | scorche|sh | \o/ |
| 18:05:55 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:06:20 | * | Nico_P probably missed some multifont discussions |
| 18:06:26 | ZincAlloy | linuxstb, why can't images be displayed underneath viewports anymore? is this a bug or a feature? |
| 18:07:09 | linuxstb | ZincAlloy: What do you mean by "anymore" ? Viewports should overwrite what's underneath. |
| 18:07:23 | ZincAlloy | it used to work on the simulator |
| 18:07:26 | linuxstb | You simply need to put images in their own viewport. |
| 18:07:33 | Nico_P | GodEater: increasing the buffering chunksize seems to help with the responsivity problems |
| 18:07:39 | linuxstb | When did it stop working? Viewports have only been in SVN for a few days. |
| 18:08:01 | ZincAlloy | yes, it was an inofficial sim... |
| 18:08:02 | gevaerts | Anyway I think someone should reply to this application with our doubts (both about the application itself and about the experience required for a usability study). If nobody beats me to it I'll try to think of something later tonight |
| 18:08:08 | ZincAlloy | I thought it was rather useful.... |
| 18:08:10 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@h-74-0-180-178.snvacaid.covad.net) |
| 18:08:20 | ZincAlloy | see this thread http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15473.0 |
| 18:08:25 | linuxstb | ZincAlloy: Did you read my description of how viewports should be used on the forum? |
| 18:08:50 | ZincAlloy | oh, there was a description? |
| 18:08:59 | linuxstb | There have been many descriptions... |
| 18:09:33 | linuxstb | I've tried to describe them on the CustomWPS page. Plus I posted a comment here - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=16082.0 |
| 18:09:59 | pondlife | Nico_P: What's the downsize of a larger chunksize? Granularity of buffer waste? |
| 18:10:57 | ZincAlloy | ok.. this will make my wps programming rather complicated.... |
| 18:11:10 | linuxstb | ZincAlloy: Why? The intention is to simplify things. |
| 18:11:22 | Nico_P | pondlife: honestly I'm not really sure. I left it at 32K when I did the buffering work, and jhMikeS later changed it down to 16K. I guess it mainly involves scheduling matters I'm not familiar with |
| 18:11:26 | scorche|sh | so to try and get back to the earlier discussion, what do people think needs to be said specifically to this applicant? |
| 18:12:01 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: (a) proposal is much too sparse, and (b) we think usability needs more experience |
| 18:12:05 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: I'm message around right now with it and that includes a 32K buffer chunk |
| 18:12:12 | jhMikeS | s/message/messing/ |
| 18:12:16 | ZincAlloy | I think I need to use conditionals for the viewports now... |
| 18:12:23 | ZincAlloy | though I'm not sure. |
| 18:12:31 | Nico_P | pondlife: AFAIK, file I/O doesn't sleep or yield, so a bigger chunksize means less frequent yielding |
| 18:12:36 | gevaerts | (but written in longer sentences) |
| 18:12:45 | scorche|sh | and (c) applicant needs to have some existing ideas of things that are "broken" to help guarantee code |
| 18:12:47 | linuxstb | scorche|sh: That an application needs to include a plan for exactly what the applicant is planning to do, and evidence that the student is capable of doing it. |
| 18:13:13 | | Join roolku [0] (n=roolku@77-99-112-231.cable.ubr16.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:13:23 | linuxstb | ZincAlloy: Conditionals in viewports aren't implemented yet - so you will need to avoid the need for them... |
| 18:13:31 | | Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 18:13:36 | scorche|sh | alright...i will write a public comment to them when i get off work if no one else gets to it first (which they can, of course...) |
| 18:13:41 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: (b) might include that we will consider it, but applicant needs to convince us that he/she is up to it |
| 18:14:30 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: if I get to it first, I'll post a proposal here first |
| 18:14:40 | ZincAlloy | that's why I need to display images underneath a viewport :D |
| 18:14:57 | roolku | linuxstb: because power is the only physical button - the interrupt-drivern touchpad driver is not compiled for the bootloader |
| 18:14:58 | linuxstb | ZincAlloy: Viewports not clearing their content was a bug I remember fixing. |
| 18:14:59 | scorche|sh | i would like to try to get an actual template form for applying up as we discussed in the Dev-ml as well |
| 18:15:22 | linuxstb | roolku: OK ;) I'll add a comment to say that. So there's no way to make the bootloader verbose? |
| 18:15:45 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: it seems to work better for me |
| 18:16:00 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: what other changes are you planning? |
| 18:16:05 | roolku | linuxstb: I don't think so - maybe if you get the timing just right with the power button |
| 18:16:13 | ZincAlloy | linuxstb: are you sure it was a bug and not a feature? I think it was really useful. |
| 18:16:56 | linuxstb | ZincAlloy: Yes, it's a bug. It would cause lots of other issues if a viewport didn't clear its contents. |
| 18:17:13 | ZincAlloy | I see. I didn't notice any |
| 18:17:46 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: I'll try to make a proposal for that as well |
| 18:18:05 | roolku | linuxstb: hm, now that I think about it, it may always be verbose? I'll have to check when I get home. |
| 18:18:10 | | Quit gevaerts ("going home before I promise too much") |
| 18:18:20 | * | scorche|sh puts his whip made out of USB cables away for now |
| 18:18:21 | LambdaCalculus37 | domonoky: Hey there! |
| 18:18:28 | linuxstb | roolku: Yes, you're right. Checking common.c, it is always verbose... |
| 18:18:34 | * | domonoky smiles.. :-) |
| 18:19:16 | LambdaCalculus37 | domonoky: I posted my disktidy modifications to FS #8595. I patched my SVN build and compiled for iPod color, then tested disktidy on it. |
| 18:19:24 | linuxstb | roolku: BTW, do you know if bootloader USB detection works on the M:Robe 100 with an SVN bootloader? |
| 18:19:27 | ZincAlloy | I'll need to wait for viewport conditionals then.. what I want to do is impossible with the current viewport implementation |
| 18:19:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | It found and deleted all of the .dolphinview files I had in it. |
| 18:19:53 | linuxstb | ZincAlloy: Do you just need to make viewports conditional on album-art? |
| 18:20:05 | ZincAlloy | or can viewports overlap? |
| 18:20:19 | roolku | linuxstb: I haven't tried recently, but will when I am at home |
| 18:20:34 | linuxstb | ZincAlloy: They can, but shouldn't... I won't try to predict what happens if they do. |
| 18:20:49 | linuxstb | roolku: OK, I just noticed that it's broken for the C240. |
| 18:21:00 | ZincAlloy | linuxstb: so there is a chance it might work.. I'm gonna give it a try... |
| 18:21:01 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:21:09 | linuxstb | ZincAlloy: Do you just need to make viewports conditional on album-art? |
| 18:21:50 | ZincAlloy | linuxstb: it's not just the album art. the text beneath it needs a conditional as well |
| 18:22:14 | linuxstb | What is the text conditional upon? |
| 18:22:26 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: I don't know. On H10 sometimes things take their sweet time adding the next handle so the CPU ends up unboosted even though things haven't really finished. |
| 18:22:40 | ZincAlloy | linuxstb: oh, I see what you mean |
| 18:23:03 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@h-74-0-180-178.snvacaid.covad.net) |
| 18:23:05 | linuxstb | ZincAlloy: I mean that if viewports could be marked "only display if there is album art" or "don't display if there is album art", would that solve your problem? |
| 18:23:12 | ZincAlloy | linuxstb: yeah, it's all dependent on album art. but I can't just put everything into a viewport. the text would be misaligned |
| 18:23:27 | Nico_P | hmm actually I seem to have run in to the responsivity problem again. audio also paused for a while |
| 18:23:50 | ZincAlloy | linuxstb: yes, I think that would solve it |
| 18:23:52 | Nico_P | err disregard the last part... it was supposed to pause |
| 18:24:05 | jhMikeS | I also took out the whole bit to defer to the codec with sleep() which works well on H10 and that's a pretty slow disk |
| 18:25:45 | Nico_P | I can test on the video if that's needed |
| 18:26:08 | | Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!") |
| 18:27:08 | jhMikeS | I put in a delay that has to have a few second with no handle request before unboosting CPU (though a bit messily atm :) |
| 18:28:42 | roolku | linuxstb: BTW what do you expect to happen with USB detection in bootloader? Considering that it doesn't get into the rockbox bootloader with USB inserted, quick USB insertion during boot is not something that I would normally do |
| 18:29:12 | roolku | linuxstb: looking at main-pp.c all USB activity seems to be sansa related ? |
| 18:29:43 | * | domonoky sees the first application to rockbox gsoc, and wants to see better ones.. :-) |
| 18:30:07 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: jhmikes.cleansoap.org/buffering-tweaking.diff">http://jhmikes.cleansoap.org/buffering-tweaking.diff |
| 18:30:19 | * | scorche|sh thinks domonoky should read the things said befor ehe joins ;) |
| 18:30:34 | * | domonoky turns to the logs.. |
| 18:30:38 | scorche|sh | s/befor ehe joins/before he joined |
| 18:30:40 | * | scorche|sh sighs |
| 18:30:58 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: What would you think of including windows files (thumbs.db, desktop.ini)? |
| 18:31:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: thumbs.db is already covered by disktidy. |
| 18:31:26 | LambdaCalculus37 | I can add in desktop.ini, though. |
| 18:31:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | And call me crazy, but I'm also adding in FINDER.DAT files that are created by Mac OS 9. |
| 18:31:47 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: Ah ok, it's not noted in task though |
| 18:32:44 | * | LambdaCalculus37 has to add in FINDER.DAT since he still uses an iMac with Mac OS 9.2.2 and hooks his JBRv1 to it from time to time |
| 18:32:51 | linuxstb | roolku: Ignore me ;) I didn't spot those Sansa #ifdefs... |
| 18:32:59 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: what sort of difference should it make? |
| 18:33:05 | kugel | Oh, ok. Obviously I was wrong about disk tidy at all |
| 18:33:32 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: If you want to try my patch out, it's FS #8595. |
| 18:33:59 | | Quit petur ("work->home") |
| 18:36:29 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: buffering seems much slower with the patch |
| 18:41:21 | jhMikeS | how much is "much" time-wise? are you getting delays in adding handles like me? |
| 18:41:55 | linuxstb | Bagder: Could you add &pathrev=xxxxx (where xxxxx is the same as r2) to the diff URLs generated by the SVN script for the front page (and elsewhere I guess). This fixes links if files are subsequently renamed or deleted (e.g. Linus's changes to FILES earlier today). |
| 18:42:07 | n1s | linuxstb: you mentioned that a system for localisable plugins was designed. know where i can find that? |
| 18:42:58 | linuxstb | n1s: I'm not sure.. I just have a recollection of reading about it, or maybe it was just vague discussions in IRC. |
| 18:43:00 | RexDart | Hmm...I assume rockbox has some error logging feature I could enable to find out why it hates SNES music, right? |
| 18:44:22 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: it seems there are delays in adding handles, but my main observation was that the levels fill much more slowly |
| 18:45:24 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: is the "view OS stacks" screen useful for such debugging? |
| 18:45:36 | jhMikeS | I'm wonder how that is possible since the chunksize is back to 32K |
| 18:45:39 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p54BF564A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:45:55 | | Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) |
| 18:47:06 | linuxstb | n1s: Hmm, I can't find anything - so maybe it was just IRC discussions... |
| 18:47:13 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: perhaps. is this with no other disk access like a database update? |
| 18:47:19 | Nico_P | I think so |
| 18:47:43 | n1s | linuxstb: I will do some irc googling then :) |
| 18:48:10 | linuxstb | n1s: I'm almost certain amiconn had some ideas... |
| 18:48:43 | Nico_P | what is it that's using the disk at startup? |
| 18:49:04 | linuxstb | dircache, database? |
| 18:49:18 | Nico_P | probably both in my case, but why do they need to? |
| 18:49:25 | Nico_P | they scan for new entries? |
| 18:50:12 | linuxstb | I think dircache does a full scan, the database will scan for new/deleted files, and deal with them appropriately. |
| 18:50:55 | orsonj | any status change on Rio Karma since last forum post at end of January? |
| 18:51:12 | Nico_P | if they do that both at the same time, no wonder resuming playback on startup is so sluggish |
| 18:51:20 | Nico_P | with the ipod's slow disk... |
| 18:51:24 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I've no idea how they interact... |
| 18:51:29 | n1s | orsonj: if noone's posted in the forum, then no |
| 18:51:31 | * | Nico_P goes to look |
| 18:51:58 | jhMikeS | three threads needing disk access while running playback is alot to do |
| 18:52:09 | | Join Davide-NYC [0] (n=chatzill@user-0cev9vm.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 18:52:12 | Nico_P | especially on a slow disk |
| 18:52:48 | bluebrother | roolku: around? |
| 18:53:01 | Davide-NYC | markun: ping |
| 18:53:06 | roolku | bluebrother: yes |
| 18:53:28 | bluebrother | I've got a problem installing Rockbox on an m:robe 100 |
| 18:53:50 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: when dircache and DB aren't updating there is no UI sluggisheness but initial buffering still seems slow (even with the PCM buffer rather full), but then accelerates and finishes quite fast |
| 18:53:50 | bluebrother | used rbutil, worked fine so far. Player rebooted, now it's stuck at the bootloader with "no partition found" |
| 18:53:51 | roolku | bluebrother: with rbutil? or manual? |
| 18:54:12 | | Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@195-144-092-144.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be) |
| 18:54:30 | markun | Davide-NYC: pong |
| 18:54:38 | jhMikeS | the codec is running full-time with no sleeping until the buffer is actually topped off, then it does sleep() |
| 18:54:39 | bluebrother | discovered a bug in rbutil during installation ;-) |
| 18:54:44 | LambdaCalculus37 | Davide-NYC: Ahoy! |
| 18:54:50 | roolku | bluebrother: how old is your bootloader? Do you know if your m:robe is partitioned or formatted as superfloppy (the default) |
| 18:55:03 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: which buffer? the PCM buffer? |
| 18:55:06 | jhMikeS | yes |
| 18:55:23 | bluebrother | the bootloader if the released one from the website −− r12345-080305 |
| 18:55:29 | bluebrother | funny revision number ;-) |
| 18:55:34 | Nico_P | well the difference between these two buffering phases doesn't seem to be the PCM buffer levels |
| 18:55:35 | jhMikeS | it only actually goes off the run list when it has to wait for buffer space |
| 18:56:12 | amiconn | Nico_P: The ipod's disk isn't slower than on any other target for reading |
| 18:56:21 | linuxstb | n1s: There's some discussion on 2007-05-24 - search for "sectioned"... |
| 18:56:36 | amiconn | And for writing, it's only slower if the writes consist of lots of single-sector transfers |
| 18:56:39 | roolku | bluebrother: *blush* maybe I should have taken out my speedup patch for svnversion |
| 18:56:49 | n1s | linuxstb: thanks, found one from 2005 too |
| 18:56:52 | jhMikeS | I did run H10 with large sector access and it seemed to be about the same speed there |
| 18:56:55 | Nico_P | amiconn: really? |
| 18:57:00 | amiconn | Yes, really |
| 18:57:10 | bluebrother | roolku: well, how can I reboot the thing and get it connected to the PC again? |
| 18:57:13 | Nico_P | amiconn: then the main difference is the RAM size? |
| 18:57:17 | linuxstb | n1s: Putting those ideas in the wiki would be useful... |
| 18:57:28 | amiconn | Whenever transferring in 1024-byte or larger chunks, there is no difference at all |
| 18:57:40 | Davide-NYC | Oi oi! was AFK |
| 18:57:42 | roolku | bluebrother: there is a reset hole at the bottom, so you need a paper clip or similar |
| 18:57:51 | bluebrother | aaah :) |
| 18:58:03 | * | gevaerts somewhat regrets volunteering to write the gsoc application template |
| 18:58:19 | amiconn | When reading in 512-byte chunks, the ata driver reads a full 1024-byte phyical sector on the first call, and returns half of it. The next call, it just copies the other half from the sector cache |
| 18:58:22 | jhMikeS | maybe I can emulate on H10 by making it do all this junk at once. The database and tagcache threads can be lowered one step (priority + 1) |
| 18:58:33 | n1s | linuxstb: I agree I thought about it a bit over the easter weekend and will try to give it a go after my next exam probably (well unless it is taken by a gsoc student :P ) |
| 18:58:57 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: can't you just resume audio on startup? |
| 18:59:12 | amiconn | Just when writing 512-byte chunks, it gets messy: The driver reads a 1024-byte sector into the cache, replaces the respective half with the 512 bytes to be written, and writes that 1024-byte sector again |
| 18:59:33 | jhMikeS | I don't have database or dircache on though |
| 18:59:34 | amiconn | The immediate write is necessary in order not to loose data |
| 18:59:47 | bluebrother | it seems my player likes to hang. Just resetted it and flipped the hold switch. Now it stays at "shutting down" |
| 18:59:53 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I suggest you enable them to add some strain :) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:50 | jhMikeS | what do you add to the database.ignore file to get it to ignore a directory? The HVSC will kill it. |
| 19:00:59 | amiconn | jhMikeS: It should also be possible to force the ata driver to use its sector cache mechanism |
| 19:01:00 | bluebrother | what's the button for booting the of on the m:r? |
| 19:01:05 | linuxstb | Nothing - just create the file. |
| 19:01:06 | roolku | bluebrother: "shutting down" the rockbox message? |
| 19:01:16 | linuxstb | ^To jhMikeS |
| 19:01:31 | bluebrother | roolku: yes |
| 19:01:32 | amiconn | Disk addressing doesn't change at all from this |
| 19:01:39 | jhMikeS | ah. cool |
| 19:01:43 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: But since markun's commit to add a "database.unignore", it will still scan all the files... |
| 19:01:53 | roolku | bluebrother: if you reset while hold is on it will turn off instead of restarting |
| 19:01:57 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:02:11 | * | amiconn should probably add a #define to force the ata driver into 1024-byte mode for testing |
| 19:02:26 | roolku | bluebrother: hm, so you booted into rockbox and the "couldn't find partition error" occured there? |
| 19:02:27 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I just went back to SVN for comparison and it's much worse than with your patch |
| 19:02:34 | jhMikeS | linuxstb: ?? |
| 19:02:46 | bluebrother | no, the error occured in the bootloader. |
| 19:02:57 | gevaerts | Does anyone happen to have a reasonable gsoc application available ? Maybe one from 2007. I need soe inspiration for this template |
| 19:03:05 | amiconn | linuxstb: Afaik the unignore was reverted... |
| 19:03:15 | bluebrother | and I haven't found the button to boot into the OF again ... |
| 19:03:37 | Slasheri | amiconn: it's still there |
| 19:03:40 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: try adding one or two to the database and dircache thread priorities. they could be a bit closer than they ought to playback. |
| 19:03:56 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: ok |
| 19:04:24 | Nico_P | Slasheri: can you brief me on what dircache and the DB do on a normal strartup? |
| 19:04:29 | roolku | bluebrother: you press power again, when the headphone logo shows and hold until it says booting OF |
| 19:04:33 | | Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:04:33 | jhMikeS | actually the differential is rather slight now |
| 19:04:43 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: I put that wrongly - it won't "scan all files", but will still traverse the entire tree. Before that patch, it would stop as soon as it saw database.ignore |
| 19:04:46 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 19:04:58 | bluebrother | roolku: doesn't work :( |
| 19:05:32 | | Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p508A5D11.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:05:34 | roolku | bluebrother: what happens? |
| 19:05:36 | bluebrother | I only get the "no partition found" error |
| 19:05:59 | Slasheri | Nico_P: on normal startup, dircache will scan through the entire file tree (using direct fat_* methods for fast access) and just create a linked list containing all files and directories (and attributes of those) |
| 19:06:10 | RexDart | Hmmm....which source file contains crash=1? |
| 19:07:07 | roolku | bluebrother: hm, I suppose that is fair enough that it can't load the OF if it doesn't see the partition... |
| 19:07:12 | RexDart | mofo.c? |
| 19:07:52 | bluebrother | roolku: so ... what can I do now? |
| 19:08:01 | Slasheri | Nico_P: and tagcache checks at first if there is a temporary db on disk waiting to commit, and will commit that if found. After that it waits dircache to became ready (if enabled) and starts searching for new tracks. Finally there will be a search for removed tracks (that phase will be greatly optimized soon) |
| 19:08:10 | roolku | bluebrother: connect USB and reset |
| 19:08:24 | Nico_P | Slasheri: right. and what's happening when there is "scanning disk" splash? is that the DB? |
| 19:08:30 | roolku | bluebrother: or switch hold on and then reset |
| 19:08:38 | Slasheri | Nico_P: that is dircache |
| 19:08:51 | Nico_P | why doesn't it appear on all startups? |
| 19:08:57 | bluebrother | ah, so there is some kind of emergency disc mode? Nice. |
| 19:09:12 | Slasheri | Nico_P: normally that is done in background |
| 19:09:32 | Slasheri | that splash appears only when a foreground scan occurs |
| 19:09:38 | roolku | bluebrother: this mechanism is in the OF's bootloader |
| 19:10:11 | roolku | bluebrother: I assume you can mount the drive on your pc ? |
| 19:10:13 | bluebrother | hmm, doesn't look like my player is a superfloppy. Just dumped the mbr |
| 19:10:21 | Nico_P | Slasheri: what's the difference between fg and bg scans? |
| 19:10:40 | Slasheri | Nico_P: foreground scan is initialized when the last cache size is unknown or directory cached failed for some reason |
| 19:10:44 | bluebrother | yep, I can now access the player. |
| 19:10:48 | * | n1s creates a wikipage |
| 19:10:54 | Slasheri | bg scan already knows the necessary amount of memory to allocate |
| 19:11:03 | * | jhMikeS knows there probably a retuning stage needed here |
| 19:11:13 | Slasheri | fg doesn't and that finds it out |
| 19:11:36 | Nico_P | Slasheri: ah and I guess the known cache size is erased by an USB operation? |
| 19:11:54 | Slasheri | no, it shouldn't be |
| 19:12:22 | Slasheri | it is probably a "new" bug if that happens |
| 19:12:43 | roolku | bluebrother: can you try the bootloader i am DCC sending right now? |
| 19:12:45 | Slasheri | i almost never use the rockbox usb mode |
| 19:12:56 | Nico_P | I'm not quite sure what I did, there's probably no cause for concern. what kind of thing makes a fg scan necessary? |
| 19:12:57 | bluebrother | roolku: just installed an svn bootloader. Now it boots fine |
| 19:13:08 | * | bluebrother has no idea how dcc works in irssi |
| 19:14:31 | Slasheri | Nico_P: for example initializing dircache for the first time or cache reserve allocation is exeeded when performing "live" cache operations (such as adding new files to the cache after a usb connection) |
| 19:14:36 | roolku | bluebrother: Hm, I better verify the bootloader in the server then... |
| 19:15:00 | roolku | bluebrother: maybe it is an old one |
| 19:15:09 | Slasheri | Nico_P: dircache allocated 64 KiB of extra every time to the last known real cache size during startup |
| 19:15:17 | Slasheri | *s |
| 19:15:29 | | Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 19:15:37 | bluebrother | a FAQ page telling how to enter disc mode on the m:r100 would also be a good idea now it's supported |
| 19:15:55 | Nico_P | Slasheri: thanks, things are much clearer now :) |
| 19:16:02 | bluebrother | once I'm finished with playing around with the thing a bit I think I could start one |
| 19:16:08 | Slasheri | :) |
| 19:16:30 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:16:35 | roolku | bluebrother: you mean rockbox USB? I thought that still needed a define to be enabled? |
| 19:17:05 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@h-74-0-180-178.snvacaid.covad.net) |
| 19:17:08 | bluebrother | roolku: no, the usb-and-reset trick |
| 19:17:31 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@182-015-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 19:17:40 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:18:28 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@h-74-0-180-178.snvacaid.covad.net) |
| 19:18:39 | roolku | bluebrother: I do that with all my targets. :) |
| 19:19:51 | bluebrother | hmm, wasn't rockbox usb safe on non-flash targets? |
| 19:20:30 | amiconn | Not entirely |
| 19:20:46 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: both the tagcache and dircache threads have PRIORITY_BACKGROUND whereas audio has PRIORITY_USER_INTERFACE |
| 19:20:50 | roolku | bluebrother: not sure what you mean, but it is faster to use the bootloader USB instead of waiting for rockbox to boot |
| 19:20:55 | amiconn | There is the (slight) chance of data corruption due to the unstable connection itself |
| 19:21:28 | roolku | bluebrother: (bootloader USB is OF or rockbox depending on target) |
| 19:22:11 | * | amiconn wants the ipod bootloader to detect usb too, and start diskmode directly :/ |
| 19:22:17 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: yes, since they need to defer to audio. So I'd try PRIORITY_BACKGROUND+1 or +2 as a check since the specific mean of that has changed. |
| 19:22:28 | jhMikeS | *meaning |
| 19:22:34 | linuxstb | amiconn: I did try that, but it gives a nasty reboot... |
| 19:22:39 | amiconn | Right now, the bootloader always boots rockbox first, which will then detect usb and *try to* reboot into diskmode |
| 19:22:48 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: ok, I'll try that |
| 19:23:17 | * | linuxstb must be extremely lucky with ipod usb mode - it very rarely fails |
| 19:23:22 | amiconn | ...which does only work in around 30% of all builds... |
| 19:23:59 | amiconn | Then I have to use Menu+Play to enter diskmode, which is also nasty because it doesn't auto-reboot on unplug |
| 19:24:33 | linuxstb | amiconn: Have you tried rolo'ing the diskmode app? |
| 19:24:41 | amiconn | Yes. Doesn't work |
| 19:24:56 | amiconn | Roloing diagmode works, but diskmode just freezes |
| 19:25:28 | bluebrother | roolku: well, the insert-usb-and-reset thingy is something I consider comparable to emergency disc mode on Ipods. |
| 19:25:51 | | Join PaulJam [0] (n=PaulJam_@p54BCD496.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:25:52 | | Quit ZincAlloy ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 19:26:58 | amiconn | linuxstb: What nasty reboot did you observe in your experiments? Did the bootloader set the "diskmode, hotstuff" cookies? |
| 19:28:27 | linuxstb | amiconn: Yes, it set those cookies and reset. I can't remember exactly what it was that I didn't like though - maybe the disk needing to be spun down, then back up immediately... |
| 19:28:37 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: the priority change doesn't seem to cause any noticeable difference |
| 19:29:28 | amiconn | linuxstb: Yeah, the bootloader would need to do a proper disk shutdown, like the core usb handling does |
| 19:29:32 | linuxstb | amiconn: I've just tested rolo'ing diskmode on my Color, and it works. |
| 19:30:01 | linuxstb | amiconn: But I seem to remember it not always being reliable... |
| 19:30:09 | amiconn | Yes, I remember that you reported that both on Color and Video, roloing diskmode works, and roloing diagmode doesn't |
| 19:30:17 | amiconn | On Mini G2 it's the opposite |
| 19:30:20 | linuxstb | Ah yes... |
| 19:31:06 | | Quit midgey|web ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 19:31:25 | bluebrother | roolku: seems I can't leave the battery debug screen |
| 19:31:46 | linuxstb | amiconn: But in theory we _should_ be able to just copy the diskmode app from flash and branch to it. I posted a patch to flyspray that did that, but it was only as reliable as rolo'ing was... |
| 19:32:17 | linuxstb | I'm not sure if that's worth spending any more time on though... |
| 19:32:27 | jhMikeS | what the hell runs on 5g that suck so much CPU? I can do dircache+database refresh on H10 without any trouble. |
| 19:32:43 | linuxstb | Maybe restoring the sysinfo struct to IRAM will help diskmode... |
| 19:33:02 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I have the 80 GB disk almost full, that has to make a difference |
| 19:33:31 | | Join dantje_ [0] (n=dvg@HSI-KBW-078-042-018-096.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 19:34:13 | roolku | bluebrother: until we get rockbox USB this is the only diskmode there is on the m:robe |
| 19:34:33 | bertrik | bluebrother: try this patch http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8790 it makes the battery debug menu behave more like the other debug menus w.r.t. key handling |
| 19:34:43 | roolku | bluebrother: can't remember offhand what button it is - power doesn't work? |
| 19:34:46 | jhMikeS | it doesn't seem tagcache is even accessing the disk at all at startup. I only the the priority of dircache being bumped to 16 occasionally, not both. |
| 19:34:53 | bluebrother | haven't tried that one :o |
| 19:35:11 | RexDart | jhmikes: hell if I know but my battery lasts all of about 45min |
| 19:35:14 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: where do you see that? stacks debug screen? |
| 19:35:34 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: yes, while buffering and having the background update |
| 19:36:01 | Nico_P | maybe you could quickly brief me on the meaning of all the data? |
| 19:36:29 | * | roolku goes home now |
| 19:36:37 | bluebrother | hmm, resuming playback uses the display button instead of play? That's awkward. |
| 19:37:42 | jhMikeS | (0) = core, RTBS = state, first number = base priority, second number = running priority (may be a higher inherited from another thread if a higher priority one is waiting for a lock) xx% = max percent of stack actually used |
| 19:37:44 | Slasheri | jhMikeS: maybe it's still the codec and buffering fighting? |
| 19:38:13 | n1s | amiconn, linuxstb, Bagder: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LocalizablePlugins the plan for making plugins localizable as far as i have understood, comments, suggestions, corrections? |
| 19:38:23 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: thanks. and what do R,T,B and S mean? |
| 19:38:25 | jhMikeS | the codec yields much less now so the buffering can more easily be dominated |
| 19:38:43 | jhMikeS | R = running, T = blocked with timeout, B = blocked, S = sleeping |
| 19:39:27 | Nico_P | ok |
| 19:39:38 | amiconn | Hmm, that reminds me |
| 19:39:44 | jhMikeS | oh, and + = thread has called trigger_cpu_boost |
| 19:39:50 | amiconn | Doom still crashes if voice is enabled |
| 19:40:00 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: and what does the star mean? |
| 19:40:21 | jhMikeS | it's just always combined with "R" (I guess for emphasis) |
| 19:40:24 | amiconn | Maybe there's a buffer clash? Voice file buffer not properly reserved so that it's outside the returned audio buffer? |
| 19:40:31 | Nico_P | ok |
| 19:40:43 | Slasheri | Nico_P: it makes easier to spot the running status |
| 19:41:40 | | Quit Davide-NYC ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]") |
| 19:41:56 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 19:42:01 | | Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 19:42:05 | pixelma | that reminds me that I once saw that voice file present or not makes no difference in the reported buffer size in the Rockbox info screen |
| 19:42:09 | Nico_P | what is the "main" thread? |
| 19:42:13 | * | linuxstb_ spots yellow and deals with it... |
| 19:42:16 | Slasheri | Nico_P: the ui thread |
| 19:42:41 | pixelma | linuxstb: you want to sell it? ;) |
| 19:42:50 | n1s | pixelma: afaik the voice file is loaded if present regardless of the setting |
| 19:43:07 | linuxstb_ | pixelma: ;) |
| 19:43:08 | | Quit japc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:43:12 | Nico_P | hmm then why is it always, running even others are too? |
| 19:43:34 | Slasheri | Nico_P: you can also test and kill those threads by using the select :) |
| 19:43:41 | pixelma | n1s: I said "voice file present or not" - not whether I have the option set or not... |
| 19:43:53 | Slasheri | Nico_P: that thread displays the debug menu |
| 19:43:55 | n1s | ah, sorry misread... |
| 19:44:03 | Slasheri | so when the menu updates, that thread is always running |
| 19:44:07 | Nico_P | Slasheri: I can't select anything , and I guess I'll abstain :) |
| 19:44:11 | amiconn | linuxstb: The success/failure check for bmp loading in wps_parser.c is wrong, as I explained yesterday |
| 19:44:17 | Nico_P | makes sense |
| 19:44:43 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: Sorry, I misunderstood you then... What's the issue? |
| 19:44:44 | amiconn | Umm, ignore that |
| 19:45:03 | linuxstb_ | OK. |
| 19:45:04 | * | amiconn didn't recognise that there is a wrapper |
| 19:45:15 | linuxstb_ | Yes, that confused me as well... |
| 19:47:10 | | Join Mouser_X [0] (n=mouser_x@layl001.digis.net) |
| 19:47:10 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: isn't there anything running on the second core in audio playback? |
| 19:47:38 | jhMikeS | killing threads arbitrarily can leave mutexes and other things abandoned though but I've resisted the temptation to add extensive cleanup procedure for that |
| 19:47:43 | * | linuxstb_ gets tangled up in some #ifdef spaghetti |
| 19:47:46 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: only with SPC |
| 19:48:04 | * | gevaerts sends linuxstb_ some #endifs to help him get out |
| 19:48:07 | Nico_P | why? |
| 19:48:08 | jhMikeS | A thread on COP will have a one (1) |
| 19:48:40 | * | linuxstb_ points gevaerts to line 1433 of apps/gui/wps_parser.c |
| 19:48:50 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: was that to me? |
| 19:49:10 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: yes |
| 19:49:18 | | Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:49:23 | Slasheri | Nico_P: it would be great to run the codec only on the second core, but that makes big shared memory caching issues and things like that |
| 19:49:29 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 19:49:54 | Slasheri | Nico_P: i had that semi working a long time ago and there was plenty of problems |
| 19:50:07 | * | gevaerts hands linuxstb_ some dynamite. That will be more useful to deal with this code |
| 19:50:32 | Nico_P | yeah I thought it had to be something like that... would it be improved if the audio and codec threads communicated through message queues? |
| 19:51:05 | Nico_P | linuxstb_: oh yes sorry about that one... my fault :/ |
| 19:51:07 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: hasn't been done yet and there's a bunch of gotchas that have to be thought though. I think the most benefit would come from decoding being on COP and DSP on CPU |
| 19:51:16 | linuxstb_ | Nico_P: ;) I like a challenge... |
| 19:51:28 | linuxstb_ | That stray ; is nice... |
| 19:51:38 | Nico_P | hehe thanks ;) |
| 19:51:44 | jhMikeS | of course if the codec is lightweight, like WAV having it all on COP would be better. |
| 19:51:56 | * | linuxstb_ hands Nico_P the obfuscation of the year award |
| 19:52:20 | gevaerts | Can people interested in gsoc have a quick look at http://pastebin.ca/958433 ? It's a short summary of an application template, and I'd like to know if there's anything missing or superfluous |
| 19:53:20 | Nico_P | linuxstb_: thanks so much. I'm very moved |
| 19:54:16 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I'd love to try to help out |
| 19:54:45 | | Quit RexDart ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 19:55:14 | Nico_P | linuxstb_: the logic is actually rather straightforward |
| 19:55:23 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: there's some advantage in having certain variables simply polled though you have to beware of race conditions when doing that. |
| 19:55:38 | linuxstb_ | Nico_P: Maybe I'm just tired... |
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| 19:55:59 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23E5CE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:56:19 | * | DerPapst wonders if LambdaCalculus37 has seen FS #8637 |
| 19:57:00 | Nico_P | linuxstb_: if there is a remote LCD but it's only 1bit, the if's body needs to be empty |
| 19:57:03 | jhMikeS | the worst thing with PP actually is the cache handling (or lack of it) accross cores. |
| 19:57:28 | | Join rasher [50] (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher) |
| 19:57:45 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: and that's a problem with shared variables? |
| 19:58:05 | | Join piga [0] (n=leonardo@143.106.24.194) |
| 19:58:12 | jhMikeS | if they're in cached ram, quite. |
| 19:58:21 | jhMikeS | each core keeps it own cache |
| 19:58:39 | Nico_P | I can imagine the problems |
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| 19:59:51 | * | DerPapst grmbls at his ISP |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:38 | linuxstb_ | Nico_P: I think this does the same thing - http://pastebin.ca/958449 |
| 20:01:13 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: mpegplayer has the entire file buffer accessed as not cached to get around this but fortunately RAM is pretty fast on ARM. |
| 20:01:28 | | Join jazznazzz [0] (n=4d46139c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-0e98557780ec1453) |
| 20:02:12 | | Quit jazznazzz (Client Quit) |
| 20:02:30 | markun | I can't find what I need to change for sysfont.h to be built.. |
| 20:02:48 | markun | for the meizu |
| 20:03:42 | linuxstb_ | Are you compiling anything that has sysfont.h as a dependency? |
| 20:04:08 | | Join jazznazzz [0] (n=4d46139c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-865c2f82f12cd0dd) |
| 20:04:21 | markun | I'm trying to build a bootloader (with a lot of stubs) |
| 20:04:39 | markun | font.h includes sysfont.h |
| 20:05:01 | Nico_P | linuxstb_: looks fine to me... and much clearer too |
| 20:05:30 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: all decoding there is done from local cached copies of the elementary streams. |
| 20:05:44 | | Join fml [0] (n=4fd3ef13@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-439360cc38022677) |
| 20:06:16 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: how is the decoding spread accross cores? audio on one and video on the other? |
| 20:06:37 | markun | linuxstb_: when I build a bootloader for the nano for example, sysfont.h is the first thing which gets created, but I can't figure out why. |
| 20:06:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | DerPapst: I have seen FS #8637. |
| 20:07:20 | gevaerts | markun: maybe it's needed for printf to work ? |
| 20:07:22 | fml | Hello. I've made a patch for the WPS tags in the manual (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8793) but couldn't actually build it since I don't have TeX. Could somebody please try it? |
| 20:07:51 | markun | gevaerts: yes, but I can't find out what I need to change to compile it |
| 20:08:19 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: on mpegplayer yes. for SPC, only the emu runs on COP and passes the samples to the CPU codec thread for DSP and pcm playback. |
| 20:08:58 | markun | make V=1 doesn't tell me much either why it's built for the nano |
| 20:09:07 | linuxstb_ | markun: Have you looked at firmware/Makefile ? |
| 20:09:20 | markun | no |
| 20:10:05 | linuxstb_ | The dependencies seem clear - sysfont.h should always be created when firmware (librockbox.a) is built.... So I don't know why it wouldn't work. |
| 20:10:52 | markun | the files from firmware/ are being built |
| 20:11:14 | markun | must be something really stupid I forgot |
| 20:11:40 | linuxstb_ | Have you tried the normal "delete build dir and reconfigure" ? |
| 20:12:06 | markun | yes |
| 20:12:30 | jazznazzz | Hi everyone, i cant delete the songs from my sansa c200 - "delete ....mp3 - YES", then "deleting..." and nothing happens, the song continues playing and is still there |
| 20:12:39 | markun | this is frustrating.. |
| 20:13:24 | bluebrother | fml: will try ... |
| 20:13:24 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:13:28 | linuxstb_ | jazznazzz: When you say "still there", where is "there" ? If you delete files, they won't (I think) immediately disappear from the database, and if they are playing, it will be buffered in RAM, so will continue playing. |
| 20:13:34 | gevaerts | I have put a more detailed template at http://pastebin.ca/958466. Please comment on it. I plan to put it on the wiki soon (with the mention that it's still a draft ?). I'd like to have this page more or less ready before I add a comment to the application that's currently there |
| 20:13:34 | | Quit jazznazzz ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 20:13:52 | | Join jazznazzz [0] (n=4d46139c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-39cffaf549a322f3) |
| 20:14:06 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@h-74-0-180-178.snvacaid.covad.net) |
| 20:14:21 | | Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.) |
| 20:15:44 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23FD54.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:15:48 | n1s | markun: are all the various fields filled in in configure for your target? |
| 20:16:12 | n1s | bottool, bootoutput etc? |
| 20:16:12 | markun | n1s: I think so. Any field in particular you are thinking of? |
| 20:17:03 | * | jhMikeS notices a marked increase in handle request speed with dircache on with H10 (no delay between them) and so buffering is faster with dircache and database updating the background than with none of those enabled. :\ |
| 20:17:20 | fml | bluebrother: ok, I'll wait for the feedback. Would you write in in the FS entry? |
| 20:17:34 | markun | n1s: boottool wasn't |
| 20:18:03 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: a handle request requires asking for the filesize, which is much faster with dircache |
| 20:18:11 | DerPapst | LambdaCalculus37: i do like that approach more. It avoids future patches to support more different filetypes. Also some may want to keep files that disktidy deletes otherwise. |
| 20:18:26 | n1s | markun: I'm not sure if it makes a difference but most of the tests in configure seem to make a lot of assumptiojns.. |
| 20:18:30 | n1s | -j |
| 20:18:34 | jhMikeS | what else? does it involve asking tagcache for anything? |
| 20:18:54 | markun | n1s: doesn't seem to help |
| 20:19:03 | jhMikeS | or playlist cachectrl ? |
| 20:19:05 | * | gevaerts notices that apparently nobody here is interested in gsoc |
| 20:19:29 | n1s | markun: maybe you can pastebin your generat4ed Makefile in the bootloader build dir? |
| 20:19:35 | * | DerPapst is ;-) |
| 20:19:54 | linuxstb_ | gevaerts: I've read your pastebin... |
| 20:20:20 | markun | n1s: http://130.89.160.166/pastebin/Makefile |
| 20:20:22 | n1s | markun or maybe you have hit FS #7583 |
| 20:20:28 | gevaerts | linuxstb_: any comments ? |
| 20:21:30 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: it doesn't use tagcache directly. things like open use it when it is enabled |
| 20:22:30 | Rincewind | gevaerts: I'm interested in gsoc |
| 20:22:47 | linuxstb_ | gevaerts: No, I think it's good. |
| 20:23:07 | markun | n1s: that fixes it! |
| 20:23:08 | gevaerts | linuxstb_: OK. I'll put it on the wiki, so DerPapst and Rincewind can get to work ;) |
| 20:23:13 | markun | ls: target/arm/crt0.S: No such file or directory |
| 20:23:15 | linuxstb_ | Rincewind: As a student, do you have any feedback on this? http://pastebin.ca/958466 |
| 20:23:22 | n1s | markun grat :) |
| 20:23:25 | n1s | +e |
| 20:23:27 | Rincewind | I just started reading it |
| 20:24:01 | markun | n1s: I have to go now. Maybe I can fix this bug so others will not have the same problem |
| 20:24:09 | markun | any idea why it got reverted? |
| 20:24:18 | n1s | nope |
| 20:24:19 | DerPapst | LambdaCalculus37: though adding linux as a third option is nice :-) |
| 20:24:54 | markun | n1s: Ah, I see it in the commit log.. http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=13415 |
| 20:25:27 | n1s | I guess we can poke Bagder then :) |
| 20:25:44 | linuxstb_ | He's had a lot of thinking time... ;) |
| 20:26:38 | Rincewind | Feedback: I don't know if I can submit a reasonable timeline in advance. Project milestones is ok, but putting time estimates to the milestones is guesswork at best |
| 20:27:28 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 20:27:31 | gevaerts | Rincewind: I'll add something to the effect that this subdivision is approximate |
| 20:27:41 | Rincewind | apart from that, it covers everything I would have told in the application anyway. |
| 20:28:25 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: did the skipping stop with the patch? I don't remember you saying it still skipped. |
| 20:28:58 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I never experienced any skipping, with or without the patch |
| 20:29:10 | * | gevaerts now fights the wiki to format this thing correctly |
| 20:29:55 | jazznazzz | Hi everyone, i cant delete the songs from my sansa c200 - "delete ....mp3 - YES", then "deleting..." and nothing happens, the song continues playing and is still there |
| 20:30:05 | Rincewind | gevaerts: this is what I have written yet: http://pastebin.com/d328e801d (there is much missing obviosly) |
| 20:30:34 | linuxstb_ | jazznazzz: Please read the IRC logs - I answered you earlier... http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20080326 |
| 20:30:51 | DerPapst | linuxstb_: i think it's quiet good what you posted on pastebin. Though i haven't followed the entire gsoc discussion. |
| 20:31:11 | linuxstb_ | DerPapst: It's gevaerts' post. |
| 20:31:29 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:31:31 | DerPapst | Ah. then it's all bad of course ;-) |
| 20:31:32 | jhMikeS | "12:26:02 Nico_P GodEater: I've experienced FS #8807 just now " |
| 20:33:00 | Rincewind | DerPapst: what project do you want to apply for? |
| 20:33:30 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@h-74-0-180-178.snvacaid.covad.net) |
| 20:33:50 | DerPapst | ummm... acually none because i'm not good enough yet. |
| 20:34:04 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: oh actually I had only seen the mention of the unresponsiveness in that report :/ |
| 20:34:29 | Nico_P | I don't know why but I never get skips on the ipod I have |
| 20:34:30 | * | gevaerts hits DerPapst on the head |
| 20:36:01 | * | DerPapst goes away with a big headace.... |
| 20:36:39 | | Join brunocardoso [0] (n=bruno@143.106.24.214) |
| 20:36:46 | brunocardoso | hi all |
| 20:36:53 | linuxstb_ | hi |
| 20:37:12 | brunocardoso | i was looking at rockbox projects for Google Summer of Code |
| 20:37:35 | | Join argumentD [0] (n=argument@wireless-gateway-authenticated.caltech.edu) |
| 20:37:37 | brunocardoso | are you really interested in compiling rockbox with LLVM ? |
| 20:38:06 | DerPapst | ^ see? i'm not even needed as a gsoc appliant :-P |
| 20:38:06 | | Quit bertrik (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:38:20 | * | DerPapst hides |
| 20:38:37 | | Join portavales [0] (n=portaval@143.106.24.216) |
| 20:38:43 | brunocardoso | i wrote the Mips backend for LLVM, and maybe i'm eligible for this project |
| 20:38:55 | brunocardoso | i can tweak the ARM backend if needed |
| 20:39:06 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:39:07 | brunocardoso | for llvm to compile rockbox stuff |
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| 20:40:10 | linuxstb_ | brunocardoso: What do you think? Could it be a useful project for Rockbox? |
| 20:41:11 | jhMikeS | the only reason I could see for unresponsiveness is for the codec to be chronically boosted because PCM is draining and the buffering isn't keeping pace |
| 20:41:26 | thegeek | I think it would be awsome, llvm seems like a really interesting project |
| 20:41:49 | | Join Arathis2 [0] (n=doerk@p508A4EDF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:41:57 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: what happened with the response with the patch though? |
| 20:42:18 | amiconn | What would be the advantage of using llvm? |
| 20:43:22 | | Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@CERULEANCITY.MIT.EDU) |
| 20:43:27 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: responsiveness improved but it's not perfect |
| 20:43:53 | brunocardoso | linuxstb_: i think it would be very nice, apple uses llvm to compile stuff for iphone, the ARM backend is very stable, so i guess optimizations are always arriving for this target! |
| 20:44:41 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: did you trying skipping from the buffering screen to see if PCM hangs around at the low end? |
| 20:44:53 | Nico_P | I'll try |
| 20:45:21 | jhMikeS | absolutely nothing else is capable of overriding UI like that |
| 20:45:33 | * | gevaerts finished the wiki work. Feel free to improve on it |
| 20:47:36 | gevaerts | brunocardoso: how good is the arm optimisation of llvm as compared to gcc ? Also, (much less important, but good to know) are there plans to support coldfire and sh in the future ? |
| 20:48:30 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: PCM seems to remain at quite a healthy level |
| 20:49:42 | bluebrother | what is the use of llvm for Rockbox? I just read the wikipedia entry but I still don't get it |
| 20:50:30 | | Quit Arathis2 ("Bye, bye") |
| 20:50:35 | n1s | bluebrother: it can work as a static compiler and is supposedly better than gcc |
| 20:51:03 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: unfortunately you can't go to watch PCM while the UI is being overridden. :\ |
| 20:51:18 | bluebrother | so it's a complete compiler replacement? I'm somewhat puzzled by this intermediate language thing |
| 20:51:45 | gevaerts | bluebrother: from what I understand, yes. |
| 20:51:53 | n1s | bluebrother: llvm.org has a quite nice summary on the frontpage |
| 20:52:07 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: probably not :) |
| 20:52:07 | | Quit jazznazzz ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 20:52:11 | * | bluebrother should have tried that page in the first place |
| 20:52:29 | * | jhMikeS is fishing for clues that are hard to come by without actually having a device handy |
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| 20:53:43 | | Join mib_x5t9yvr187 [0] (i=d2d43dfb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-78bf5470a891f9a8) |
| 20:53:58 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:54:13 | gevaerts | Can students actually revise their application ? |
| 20:54:49 | | Part mib_x5t9yvr187 |
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| 20:55:11 | bluebrother | hmm. So the C code gets transferred to this LLVM language and afterwards compiled into the actual binary? |
| 20:55:43 | gevaerts | bluebrother: actually something similar happens with gcc (and I guess these days with most compilers) |
| 20:55:47 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)") |
| 20:55:53 | | Join RubberDucky132 [0] (n=chatzill@78.151.137.36) |
| 20:55:58 | Nico_P | yeah it's just an abstract tree, isn't it? |
| 20:56:02 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:56:08 | brunocardoso | gevaerts: sometimes llvm is better sometimes worse than gcc! never heard coldfire and sh plans, but i can check with the mans behind ARM backend |
| 20:56:15 | RubberDucky132 | Quick question: can Rockbox output on iPod 5G 30GB through USB connection? |
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| 20:56:46 | bluebrother | gevaerts: I thought I remembered something like that (in regards of gcc). So the main difference for llvm is its optimizations? |
| 20:56:56 | gevaerts | RubberDucky132: I don't really understand that question |
| 20:57:02 | bluebrother | RubberDucky132: what do you mean by "output through usb"? |
| 20:57:07 | gevaerts | bluebrother, meet brunocardoso. brunocardoso, meet bluebrother |
| 20:57:12 | RubberDucky132 | sorry, output *audio* |
| 20:57:23 | thegeek | llvm is a kind of unified framework for compiling I think |
| 20:57:23 | RubberDucky132 | through the USB connector at the bottom |
| 20:57:29 | RubberDucky132 | for iPod Hi-Fi docks |
| 20:57:40 | n1s | brunocardoso: do you think the gain for rockbox compiler with llvm will be substantial over compiling with gcc? |
| 20:57:58 | bluebrother | gevaerts: hehe, you're right ;-) |
| 20:58:09 | brunocardoso | hi bluebrother |
| 20:58:26 | thegeek | I don't think it the gain would be _substantial_ right now, but seems to be llvm growing fast, and it's getting a lot of attention |
| 20:58:36 | gevaerts | RubberDucky132: ok, I see. No it can't. From what I understand this is actually a hardware limitation (i.e. the ipod does not have USB host support) |
| 20:58:49 | thegeek | wow that sentence was horrible;P |
| 20:58:54 | thegeek | sorry;) |
| 20:59:17 | | Quit Arathis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:59:26 | RubberDucky132 | gevaerts: perhaps my understanding of hardware limitation is false, but surely it isn't since the iPod's firmware can do it? |
| 20:59:27 | bluebrother | the hifi could use the Ipod as storage device (i.e. decode the music itself). In that case it would use disc mode and therefore work with Rockbox too. |
| 20:59:48 | scorche|sh | RubberDucky132: are you sure it takes USB?...i think the hi-fi just uses the line out |
| 20:59:54 | bluebrother | RubberDucky132: you haven't explained how exactly it works ;-) |
| 20:59:56 | Nico_P | gevaerts: did you get anywhere with USB audio? (hoping that's not the same question...) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:01 | n1s | RubberDucky132: that connector has far more pins than usb and the output to those accessories is throu some of the non-usb pins |
| 21:00:25 | RubberDucky132 | Alright maybe its not traditional USB |
| 21:00:33 | scorche|sh | namely line out which is used by most of those sorts... |
| 21:01:02 | scorche|sh | it *is* traditional USB...the dock connector ont he ipod is just much more than USB....hence why it is a "dock connector" and not "usb connector" |
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| 21:01:23 | RubberDucky132 | Well you seem to have decoded my babble |
| 21:01:29 | gevaerts | Nico_P: I have "working" usb audio here. The quotes mean that it doesn't actually do sound |
| 21:01:44 | RubberDucky132 | so can Rockbox output through the iPods "dock connector"? |
| 21:01:51 | Nico_P | gevaerts: would it take a lot more to do sound? |
| 21:01:54 | scorche|sh | through the line out, yes |
| 21:02:01 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 21:02:26 | RubberDucky132 | that being a selection of pins on the dock connector? or the headphone socket |
| 21:02:32 | bluebrother | brunocardoso: so llvm is basically a new architecture for a compiler? |
| 21:02:33 | scorche|sh | most people with devices like the hi-fi get sound and cna control the volume, but not be able to skip songs and such since that is using the serial connection |
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| 21:02:39 | | Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.) |
| 21:02:40 | scorche|sh | that is on the dock connector |
| 21:02:41 | | Nick DerPapst748 is now known as DerPapst (n=DerPapst@p5B23F842.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:02:44 | gevaerts | Nico_P: it would need quite a lot of work yes. |
| 21:02:48 | RubberDucky132 | wonderful :) |
| 21:03:01 | scorche|sh | RubberDucky132: try the AppleAccessories wiki page and see if your device is on there |
| 21:03:06 | RubberDucky132 | because my dad invested in a hifi grade iPod doc so I've been using Rockbox to use FLAC on the iPod |
| 21:03:10 | brunocardoso | n1s: i really dont know, we must compile and run to see! that's why i'm wondering if this is a eligible as a GSoC projet! ;) |
| 21:03:31 | RubberDucky132 | scorche|sh: ok :) |
| 21:03:34 | thegeek | I think llvm is mentioned in the gsoc wiki-page? |
| 21:03:42 | | Quit PaulJam_ (".") |
| 21:03:49 | scorche|sh | hence why he is asking about it |
| 21:03:49 | gevaerts | Nico_P: but I'll only do that work once I'm confident that we can solve the current usb issues |
| 21:04:01 | brunocardoso | bluebrother: think about llvm as a alternative for gcc! although its the name of the compile IR too! |
| 21:04:01 | thegeek | then clearly it is of some interest;P |
| 21:04:17 | n1s | brunocardoso: understood, do you think it would be enough work for gsoc to make it compile rockbox ok (with all the associated build system adjustments etc.)? |
| 21:05:08 | bluebrother | brunocardoso: ok, that somewhat answers my question. And in case it gets a SoC project I guess I'll learn more about it in one way or another ;-) |
| 21:05:26 | brunocardoso | bluebrother: ;) |
| 21:05:39 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: think it's a good idea to make the filechunk 32KB again? it's definitely a little better on anything I have to test. |
| 21:05:50 | thegeek | as a user with a lot of interest in rockbox development(I've been following the project for some years) I think it would be very interesting |
| 21:06:06 | gevaerts | brunocardoso: do you think that getting rockbox to compile (and work...) with llvm is enough work for SoC ? |
| 21:06:08 | RubberDucky132 | it's not listed as working or not working, but it's not a fancy dock / speaker / remote combo it's just a hifi grade "pickup" than turns the iPod line out into dual phono out, so prosumably it'll work? I mean it isn't even using serial at all I guess |
| 21:06:15 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: it looks better to me too... I couldn't really say why it's that way though ;) |
| 21:06:40 | brunocardoso | n1s, gevaerts: yeah, i think the time is enough |
| 21:07:04 | thegeek | I think he meant is it too easy (not enough work for an entire summer) |
| 21:07:09 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: heck, I'll even try larger ones if that won't break anything |
| 21:07:27 | Nico_P | why not... I'll try too |
| 21:07:29 | bluebrother | what do people think about FS #8751? IMO it should get rejected as it doesn't give much benefit |
| 21:07:33 | brunocardoso | n1s, gevaerts: and like i said, if we get in trouble with some ARM backend issues, i can send patches to fix it! yeah, i think the time is enough |
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| 21:07:59 | brunocardoso | sorry for the duplicated time enough message ;) |
| 21:08:03 | amiconn | If llvm is about better optimisation, I think that coldfire could profit more from it than arm |
| 21:08:30 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:08:42 | n1s | amiconn: writing a coldfire backend seems more like an llvm project than a rockbox one :) |
| 21:08:49 | scorche|sh | llvm doesnt have coldfire or sh support yet |
| 21:08:50 | amiconn | gcc optimises reasonably well for arm in most cases. For coldfire, gcc compilations are sometimes horrible |
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| 21:09:40 | * | amiconn is still wondering why gcc -O2 and especially -O3 often make slower code for coldfire than just -O |
| 21:09:46 | amiconn | n1s: true |
| 21:10:48 | Nico_P | bluebrother: I say close it, yes |
| 21:11:08 | | Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:11:14 | brunocardoso | amiconn: if it's just an ARM extension and if its very important to rockbox, that could be a rockbox project i think! |
| 21:12:18 | n1s | -O3 turns on a lot more inlining so it probably kills the icache, but generally I believe that the state of the m68k backend in gcc makes the rest of gcc take stupid decisions (m68k is used as an example of outdated backend in need of cleanup in the gcc wiki...) |
| 21:12:35 | domonoky | brunocardoso: coldfire is an m68k variant.. |
| 21:12:49 | brunocardoso | domonoky: =/ |
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| 21:13:10 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: a clue might be that the UI stays unresponsive even when audio is paused... shouldn't the codec be idle then? |
| 21:13:18 | brunocardoso | domonoky: not eligible then |
| 21:15:56 | n1s | heh, googling 'llvm m68k' gives our gsoc wikipage as nr 9 |
| 21:16:17 | bertrik | I also wonder sometimes how the compiler can make decisions regarding speed if it doesn't know how fast memory accesses are (e.g. internal RAM could be faster than external RAM and a lot faster than flash) |
| 21:16:38 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:16:38 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: It's not really "idle" when paused per se but should be doing sleep() enough to be effectively so. btw, with 64K chunks the H10 buffers about as fast as e200. |
| 21:16:58 | Nico_P | quite impressive I guess? |
| 21:17:21 | gevaerts | scorche|sh, other mentors: can you review http://pastebin.ca/958558 ? It's my comment on the usability study application |
| 21:18:24 | brunocardoso | n1s, so do you think i must send a proposal or leave the idea? |
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| 21:19:38 | n1s | I'd say go ahead and send in the application but I'm not the one deciding which are accepted (I don't know exactly how that works) |
| 21:19:39 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: though it does seem more affected by codec PCM filling and speeds up more when it finally tops the PCM off |
| 21:20:40 | brunocardoso | n1s: ok then! if anyone has any ideas regarding llvm use, i'm here to discuss! thanks! |
| 21:20:57 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:21:00 | scorche | gevaerts: add a bit about having some previous ideas of things that are currently wrong with our "usability"...also change the thing about experience from a first-year student to someone without past expereience in doing such usability studies/indepth UI design |
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| 21:22:18 | gevaerts | scorche: I'm not sure what you mean by your first point |
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| 21:23:07 | bluebrother | write something up why the current usability approach needs changing? |
| 21:23:10 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: when resuming playback with the player essentially idle, there seems to be two phases. at first buffering is rather slow, then past approx. mid buffer it gets much faster... any idea why that could be? codec boosting less maybe? |
| 21:23:35 | Nico_P | all the time the PCM buffer appears essentially full to me though |
| 21:23:38 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: in other words, i would like to see the person applying for that project list a few things they think could be done better/is done wrong that they could fix |
| 21:23:44 | saratoga | did anyone still want to see my old GSOC app |
| 21:24:14 | scorche|sh | as in, they already have some ideas of where they could go and what they could do to improve our usability even before the "study" |
| 21:24:38 | gevaerts | saratoga: I've finished the template now. Feel free to review and improve it though |
| 21:25:35 | saratoga | maybe include something about feasibility |
| 21:25:55 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:26:35 | gevaerts | saratoga: could you suggest a sentence ? |
| 21:26:49 | * | gevaerts is not good at making up text |
| 21:27:02 | scorche|sh | Why do you think this project would be beneficial to Rockbox? |
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| 21:27:08 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: codec only boosts when under 1/2 of audio otherwise it's normal priority |
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| 21:27:14 | jhMikeS | *1/2 second |
| 21:27:38 | scorche|sh | saratoga: were you referring to something like that, or something more along the lines of how well they htink they can do the project |
| 21:27:42 | Nico_P | how much does the PCM buffer hold? |
| 21:27:45 | Rincewind | saratoga: if you don't mind, I would like to have look at your application |
| 21:28:04 | * | Nico_P can also paste his application if it is of interest |
| 21:28:23 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: 3 seconds without crossfade enabled |
| 21:28:44 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: ok, so it definitely didn't go below 2 secs |
| 21:28:56 | Nico_P | as far as I could see anyway |
| 21:29:00 | * | Rincewind is stuck at formulating his ideas in english at the moment |
| 21:29:11 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: current draft response is at http://pastebin.ca/958575 |
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| 21:29:43 | Rincewind | Nico_P: I would like to see your's, too. |
| 21:30:15 | Nico_P | Rincewind: as soon as I find it :) |
| 21:30:42 | scorche|sh | Rincewind: planning on applying? ;) |
| 21:30:49 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: was it the case that "access to the menus seems unaffected"? The statement in 8807 seems to indicate the unresponsiveness doesn't happen to the menus which would rule out any sort of priority override. |
| 21:30:53 | Rincewind | scorche|sh: yes |
| 21:31:51 | * | bluebrother wonders why the m:robe dock doesn't have a line out connector |
| 21:31:52 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I had to wait to be able to get in the menu but once there it was ok |
| 21:32:18 | Nico_P | Rincewind: http://code.google.com/soc/2007/rockbox/appinfo.html?csaid=D6BA9A838F43B9D8 |
| 21:32:45 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: so you just entered the menu normally without changing playback state in any way and then no UI sticking? |
| 21:33:22 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I think that's it, yes |
| 21:33:43 | jhMikeS | btw, does it ever return to normal again without a reboot or anything? |
| 21:33:44 | Nico_P | the menu appeared after a delay, but then it wasn't sluggish |
| 21:33:49 | Nico_P | yes it does |
| 21:34:10 | Nico_P | after a while it becomes perfectly fine again... with your patch atleast |
| 21:34:29 | jhMikeS | does the WPS in use matter? |
| 21:36:06 | | Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend") |
| 21:36:21 | gevaerts | scorche: Can I submit http://pastebin.ca/958593 ? |
| 21:37:01 | | Quit n1s () |
| 21:37:15 | * | gevaerts is too cowardly to submit this without approval |
| 21:37:41 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I haven't checked that |
| 21:37:44 | Nico_P | I'll try |
| 21:37:50 | gevaerts | linuxstb_: you also expressed some doubts about this application earlier. Can you review http://pastebin.ca/958593 as well ? |
| 21:38:15 | saratoga | regarding feasibility, i remember doing some profiling of the WMA codec in fp to explore how much optmization would be needed and in what code |
| 21:38:40 | saratoga | it turned out that the fft used most of the time, so I knew that the fixed version would be feasible without too much optimization |
| 21:38:55 | scorche | gevaerts: just do some small things such as capitalizing Rockbox, say "Google Summer of *Code*" instead of "summer of CODE", etc |
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| 21:39:33 | gevaerts | saratoga: I added a sentence to the effect that they should include info to convince us that they will be able to complete the project |
| 21:39:38 | gevaerts | scorche: OK. I'll do that |
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| 21:40:31 | linuxstb_ | gevaerts: Seems fine to me |
| 21:40:31 | scorche | also where you say "a more detailed proposal" say "a more detailed proposal with some specific tasks or a sort of rough plan"....well...something like that |
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| 21:40:58 | linuxstb_ | scorche: I think that's covered by the page gevaerts links to |
| 21:41:14 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: how bout enabling the kernel checks in kernel.c? It's behaving like it could if that mutex is being corrupted by something which is more catastropic than if that struct spinlock got corrupted. |
| 21:41:16 | bluebrother | is there a wiki page about the m:robe 500 port? |
| 21:41:19 | scorche | alright...that works too then |
| 21:41:35 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: what do they do? |
| 21:41:42 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: might as well turn them in thread.c too |
| 21:41:48 | * | gevaerts submits this comment |
| 21:42:05 | * | linuxstb_ wonders about the best way to build 20 versions of checkwps |
| 21:42:07 | jhMikeS | they check the queues and lock owners to be sure they're correct and will panic if something isn't right |
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| 21:45:23 | Rincewind | "they check the queues and lock owners to be sure they're correct and will panic if something isn't right" <−− sounds a lot like airport security to me :) |
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| 21:45:52 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: btw the term "UI response" might have been a bit wrong... what I'm doing is pausing/unpausing the audio, which of course requires the audio thread to run at some point |
| 21:45:54 | saratoga | here is the nonperson part of my application (preceeding this was a detailed list of the experience and coursework I'd done to qualify me for the proposal): |
| 21:46:01 | saratoga | http://pastebin.com/d38a97ba2 |
| 21:46:17 | jhMikeS | the terrorists might be getting be getting through in this case |
| 21:46:23 | saratoga | here is the public proposal: http://code.google.com/soc/2007/rockbox/appinfo.html?csaid=76A58E89FB7B95A2 |
| 21:46:42 | Nico_P | saratoga: are the peronal parts still available to us? |
| 21:46:57 | gevaerts | Rincewind: anyway, I guess you're good at running if there is any rumor of panic ;) |
| 21:47:00 | saratoga | Nico_P : presumably bagder, et al still have them |
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| 21:47:13 | saratoga | i odn't mind emailing them, just don't want to pastebin them |
| 21:47:28 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: accessing the menu doesn't seem to lag if it's not waiting on an audio command's response |
| 21:47:40 | Nico_P | so I guess it's the audio thread that's making things sluggish |
| 21:47:52 | Rincewind | saratoga: thanks |
| 21:48:05 | * | gevaerts considers reading all these proposals to see if he can reject them easily ;) |
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| 21:48:50 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: also the WPS might have an influence but it could also just be my appreciation |
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| 21:51:35 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: all I know is something funny is happening on a particular device that doesn't ever seem to happen with others. |
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| 21:52:54 | Nico_P | I've enabled the checks, I'll test with that now |
| 21:53:47 | pixelma | Bagder: you around? |
| 21:55:46 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: there appears to be no panics |
| 21:56:54 | Nico_P | maybe it's time to call usb serial to the rescue |
| 21:57:10 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: this never occurs without the startup scans also running? |
| 21:57:27 | * | gevaerts hears someone mention usb and wakes up |
| 21:57:39 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I haven't tried disabling the DB yet |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:40 | | Quit argumentD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:02:08 | Nico_P | funnily enough, things don't seem much better with DB and tagcache disabled... (still 64K chunksize) |
| 22:03:48 | Bagder | pixelma: yeps |
| 22:03:58 | saratoga | Bagder: did you add my machine as a build server? |
| 22:04:14 | jhMikeS | ?? and yet in that situation only the buffering thread should access the disk and the mutexes practically a nop in that case. hmmm....... |
| 22:05:02 | Bagder | saratoga: uh no, I've missed that info. what's the host name? |
| 22:05:08 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: I'm surprised too.. could it be that I've left the checks enabled or are those light enough not to have an influence? |
| 22:05:18 | | Join smiler777 [0] (n=smiler-7@85.173.7.230) |
| 22:05:34 | smiler777 | hi evryone! |
| 22:05:35 | Nico_P | from what I'm seeing I'm more and more convinced the lack of responsiveness is caused by the audio thread |
| 22:05:38 | jhMikeS | they are quite lightweight |
| 22:06:01 | Nico_P | maybe its queue is flooded, or maybe it's not running enough |
| 22:06:08 | smiler777 | i have 1 question about rockbox |
| 22:06:17 | smiler777 | can U help me& |
| 22:06:19 | smiler777 | ? |
| 22:06:25 | bertrik | ask the question |
| 22:06:27 | jhMikeS | it's priority is the same as UI now but since it doesn't have too much to do that should be ok |
| 22:06:33 | Nico_P | but the pause/resume events take a damn long time before getting processed |
| 22:06:52 | linuxstb_ | Bagder (or Zagor?) - can I point you to this? http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20080326#18:41:55 |
| 22:07:26 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: is there a PCM thread? |
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| 22:08:19 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: I'll cook up a debug screen that displays the some important internal data that if messed up, well produce odd behvior but it was always correct on any target I have. |
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| 22:08:34 | jhMikeS | There's no PCM thread. The codec thread feeds the buffer |
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| 22:08:45 | Nico_P | right |
| 22:08:47 | smiler777 | i from russia, so im sorry for bad english... I have ipod video 30 gb. 1 year ago i install to ipod rockbox version 16xxx. Everything allright, but battary life - only 3-4 hours. Does it fixed on latest rockbox and how long ipod can work without charging? |
| 22:09:10 | Nico_P | then I think I'll build a usb serial build and watch the audio queue |
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| 22:09:31 | scorche|sh | smiler777: i wouldnt say "fixed", but it does last a good deal longer now...try it yourself |
| 22:10:13 | smiler777 | scorche|sh - how long ipod can work non-stop now? |
| 22:10:24 | scorche|sh | that depends on your battery |
| 22:10:33 | scorche|sh | like i said...try it yourself |
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| 22:11:46 | smiler777 | scorche|sh thx! ;) Is russian user here except me? )) |
| 22:11:56 | * | scorche|sh shrugs |
| 22:12:12 | Bagder | we're all a happy family here from planet internet |
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| 22:12:45 | smiler777 | Bagder okey , im in ) |
| 22:12:49 | | Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting") |
| 22:13:14 | smiler777 | i go to reflash ipod.. wish me lusk )) |
| 22:13:18 | smiler777 | luck |
| 22:13:30 | scorche|sh | you arent reflashing it |
| 22:13:38 | Bagder | pixelma: small m3 pic updated |
| 22:13:54 | smiler777 | scorche|sh ? |
| 22:14:27 | scorche|sh | we dont touch the flash |
| 22:14:44 | pixelma | Bagder: already spotted it, thanks :) |
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| 22:16:53 | smiler777 | scorche|sh im russian, so my english dictonary is very small. "reflash" - mind install latest rockbox. xorry |
| 22:16:59 | crzyboyster | Has the CustomWPS page been updated to have the tags for viewportifying the menu/list? |
| 22:17:37 | linuxstb_ | crzyboyster: What tags? |
| 22:17:42 | | Quit silvio (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:18:19 | crzyboyster | What exactly was the recent commit? I figured it allowed viewports in the menus now? That's the tags I was asking about. |
| 22:19:36 | scorche|sh | smiler777: well, reflash is a specific technical term..."flashing" is as well...being that we just change a few things on the hard drive and dont touch the flash, we arent "reflashing ipods" |
| 22:21:29 | | Quit crzyboyster ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 22:22:04 | pixelma | Llorean: do you mean "Party Mode" in your recent forum post? ;) |
| 22:23:35 | Nico_P | gevaerts: I interrupted cu with CTRL-C and now when I try to restart it I get "/dev/ttyUSB0: Line in use"... any idea what I should do? |
| 22:24:22 | gevaerts | Nico_P: are you doing this as root ? |
| 22:24:29 | Nico_P | no |
| 22:24:30 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:24:52 | Nico_P | should I? |
| 22:24:53 | Llorean | pixelma: Fixed, thanks. |
| 22:25:18 | gevaerts | Nico_P: no. It's just that I sometimes get that error when running as root (but not otherwise) |
| 22:25:27 | gevaerts | Did you unplug and replug since then ? |
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| 22:25:56 | Nico_P | ah. did that and now I'm good |
| 22:26:36 | gevaerts | Probably the previous cu lock was not cleared. Try exitting by ~. (and waiting a few seconds after that) |
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| 22:28:48 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: plenty of things seem to be happening between the moment the pause event is sent and the moment it is processed |
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| 22:30:13 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: http://pastebin.ca/958687 |
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| 22:42:40 | * | gevaerts has good news and bad news |
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| 22:43:38 | gevaerts | I just copied 7GB from my c250, 2GB of which were behind a hub, without a single message in dmesg |
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| 22:44:10 | bluebrother | nice. And for the bad news? |
| 22:44:14 | * | scorche|sh hopes that was the bad news |
| 22:45:11 | gevaerts | The bad news is that I had to make sure that there is _nothing_ else running while the usb transfer is busy. I tested by disabling double buffering, and all non-usb interrupts |
| 22:45:53 | gevaerts | My next test will try using IRAM (and interrupts enabled). Maybe that will be sufficient as well |
| 22:46:22 | smiler777 | oh my god )) i install rockbox 16828xxx - the ipod baterry lifetime on display - 9 hours! never seen that digits )) |
| 22:46:37 | scorche|sh | that number isnt accurate...it never was |
| 22:46:44 | smiler777 | thx everybody |
| 22:47:19 | | Quit soap (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:47:41 | smiler777 | scorche|sh i know, but that number near truth, vith turned off display, i think so |
| 22:48:01 | scorche|sh | i wouldnt trust anything short of an actual battery bench |
| 22:48:19 | bluebrother | Bagder: do you think MarcGuay should be able closing FS tasks? He seems to be doing quite some nice cleanup work |
| 22:48:43 | Bagder | I think he could use that, yes |
| 22:49:08 | * | gevaerts tries to find out how he can get 32kb IRAM |
| 22:49:16 | bluebrother | he usually isn't around here, right? |
| 22:49:22 | Bagder | no |
| 22:49:45 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:50:50 | bluebrother | I'm going to give him a hint in a forum PM ;-) |
| 22:50:59 | | Part xnyhps |
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| 22:52:52 | Bagder | 1056 open tasks... |
| 22:54:49 | bluebrother | urgh :( |
| 22:54:50 | Llorean | I've closed 5 or 6 in the last three days. If everyone else in the channel follows my lead, we'll be fine. :-P |
| 22:55:02 | bluebrother | we really need a new cleanup week ... |
| 22:55:11 | * | Bagder noticed 35 PM requests... |
| 22:55:42 | Llorean | PM requests? |
| 22:56:09 | Bagder | yes, in the tracker |
| 22:56:15 | Bagder | close and re-open requests basically |
| 22:56:24 | gevaerts | Can anyone confirm that static unsigned char buffer[BUFFER_SIZE*2] IDATA_ATTR; |
| 22:56:44 | Llorean | Bagder: Any of them on tasks I closed? |
| 22:56:48 | gevaerts | will end up in IRAM ? And will I need UNCACHED_ADDR with it ? |
| 22:56:49 | * | Llorean tries to be clear on 'why' when closing. |
| 22:56:56 | Zagor | I'm strongly considering removing the possibility of sending PM requests |
| 22:57:12 | Bagder | gevaerts: you can always check the map file after a build to verify |
| 22:57:28 | * | gevaerts should have thought of that |
| 22:57:36 | Bagder | Zagor: yes, it seems to not do much good |
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| 22:58:51 | | Part smiler777 |
| 22:58:52 | Bagder | well, some of the close-requests are at least partly useful |
| 22:59:04 | Zagor | yes but they could just as well be made in mail or irc |
| 22:59:13 | gevaerts | region IRAM is full :( |
| 22:59:27 | Bagder | Zagor: yes, or as plain comments in the entry |
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| 23:00 |
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| 23:00:47 | bluebrother | hmm, has a date for devcon been discussed at all? |
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| 23:01:06 | Bagder | there's too little devcon talk in general |
| 23:01:30 | * | scorche|sh nods |
| 23:01:41 | bluebrother | indeed. |
| 23:01:43 | * | scorche|sh sees it on his list under GSoC and themes |
| 23:02:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 23:03:42 | amiconn | gevaerts: If you declare an array like this, use IBSS_ATTR, not IDATA_ATTR |
| 23:04:20 | amiconn | (that won't help with the 'region blah full' problem though) |
| 23:04:20 | | Quit ender` (" Theory: we know everything, but nothing works. Practice: things work, but we don't know why. Combine them: nothing wo") |
| 23:04:52 | gevaerts | amiconn: thanks. It's just for a test right now, but still |
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| 23:07:28 | * | amiconn now gets 436fps on the H1x0 remote boosted :) |
| 23:07:55 | Nico_P | amiconn: you should really stop now :) |
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| 23:08:49 | Bagder | I bet you can't reach 1000! |
| 23:09:02 | Bagder | :-P |
| 23:09:06 | amiconn | Indeed I can't |
| 23:09:32 | amiconn | Even the fastest main LCDs don't reach 1000 (but the H1x0 and especially the M5 get close...) |
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| 23:10:22 | amiconn | I just applied the things I've learned while squeezing the iaudio remote transfer back to the iriver remote |
| 23:11:19 | amiconn | They can't be applied as-is though, because the iaudios have remote lcd CLK and DATA on the same GPIO port, while the irivers have it on different GPIO ports |
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| 23:13:56 | * | Llorean wonders how much ticking you get with greylib running. |
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| 23:14:44 | amiconn | I won't port the greylib just now, but I think it would be more like humming than ticking |
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| 23:15:16 | amiconn | The faster transfer should in fact help to reduce ticking a bit further on affected irivers |
| 23:15:31 | Llorean | That's good, then. |
| 23:17:18 | amiconn | What we're doing to reduce ticking is to spread out the byte transfers, in order to reduce the energy density of the transfer. The faster transfer results in shorter transfers and longer pauses, given the same overall update speed |
| 23:17:37 | amiconn | (which aims at 60fps with ticking reduction enabled) |
| 23:18:40 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 23:18:41 | amiconn | My H180 only ticks very little, almost unnoticeable with my current earphones. My H340 doesn't tick at all |
| 23:18:46 | Llorean | Do we need 60? That seems a bit high to me. |
| 23:19:16 | amiconn | 60 is already quite low |
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| 23:21:03 | Llorean | Well, specifically for WPS actually, I'd imagine we could go a good deal lower? |
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| 23:21:28 | GameJerk | i can't seem to find the page that lists what each version specifically does and does not do. I'm looking for specs on Rockbox for the Sansa e200 series. |
| 23:21:31 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf () |
| 23:22:01 | Llorean | GameJerk: There's not really differences in the versions, besides things the hardware simply can't do (no radio if your player doesn't have radio, etc). |
| 23:22:08 | Bagder | GameJerk: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox |
| 23:22:55 | amiconn | Llorean: Don't forget peakmeters etc... |
| 23:23:31 | Llorean | amiconn: "etc"? I would think it's just peakmeters. |
| 23:23:40 | GameJerk | thx badger. Is there a way to boot the Original firmware while still having rockbox installed? |
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| 23:23:47 | amiconn | Well, in the wps itself, yes, atm |
| 23:23:49 | Bagder | GameJerk: yes |
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| 23:24:33 | GameJerk | bagder: how would i got about doing that on the sansa e200? |
| 23:24:39 | feindbild | hi =) |
| 23:24:40 | amiconn | But maybe the idea of a plugin viewport gets implemented some day, and you'll run oscilloscope in one... |
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| 23:24:48 | scorche|sh | GameJerk: have you read the manual? |
| 23:24:49 | Bagder | GameJerk: it's all detailed in the fine manual! |
| 23:25:44 | GameJerk | sorry i got it now. I must have missed it |
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| 23:25:52 | GameJerk | sorry for being a twat :) |
| 23:26:06 | feindbild | any sansa e200 users here using the latest builds? I keep get 'Undefined instruction at 001400C8 (0)' and was wondering If I'm the only one with this problem ... |
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| 23:26:27 | GameJerk | i get that too feinbild |
| 23:26:35 | GameJerk | when i connect to USB |
| 23:27:25 | GameJerk | i like rockbox and all but i wish i could record radio w/it. thats the only thing that is keeping me from using it |
| 23:27:44 | feindbild | GameJerk: =/ I get it without connecting to USB ...everytime rockbox boots ... |
| 23:27:46 | gevaerts | GameJerk: that should work |
| 23:28:26 | pixelma | GameJerk: hmm? You can... (might be not so obvious that you have to do that from the radio screen though) |
| 23:28:28 | bertrik | I have a sansa e260 with a recent build but no undefined instruction |
| 23:29:04 | pixelma | errmm s/radio screen/recording screen |
| 23:29:55 | GameJerk | oh so i have to turn on the radio first and then go to the recording screen? |
| 23:30:41 | pixelma | no, you have to go to the recording screen and set the source to radio (sorry for the typo that causes confusion) |
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| 23:32:19 | GameJerk | oh the recording settings screen. found it |
| 23:32:30 | kugel | pixelma: Did noone actually thought of implementing press/hold REC in radioscreen to record? |
| 23:32:41 | kugel | I have no radio, so I didn't :p |
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| 23:33:29 | GameJerk | kugel: ya that would be sweet. That way if i wanted voice notes i wouldn't have to go back and forth all the time to switch the input |
| 23:34:01 | pixelma | kugel: I think it's not that easy to just implement the interface for it on swcodec. On hwcodec it's done this way... :P |
| 23:34:20 | kugel | pixelma: ah ok |
| 23:35:06 | GameJerk | where is the proper placement for the radio preset file? |
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| 23:39:11 | linuxstb_ | GameJerk: .rockbox/fmpresets/ - see here - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FmPresets |
| 23:40:48 | jhMikeS | pixelma: you can get to the recording screen from the radio screen from the radio menu |
| 23:42:08 | gevaerts | It seems that just putting the usb buffer in IRAM doesn't help (it actually makes things worse) |
| 23:44:01 | pixelma | jhMikeS: ah yes, forgot about that (only one of my two swcodec players have a radio and I very seldom use radio recording) |
| 23:45:11 | GameJerk | there any hope for better video codec support or does the hardware just not capable of anything better? |
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| 23:46:22 | bluebrother | GameJerk: define "better". |
| 23:46:44 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: seen my pastebin? |
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| 23:47:11 | feindbild | xvid would be nice ... |
| 23:47:22 | GameJerk | more codecs supported. like xvid etc.. |
| 23:47:55 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: check this OS stacks screen, one thing you should never see in there is any "FF" or the like for a value: jhmikes.cleansoap.org/os-stack-really-detailed.diff">http://jhmikes.cleansoap.org/os-stack-really-detailed.diff |
| 23:48:12 | dionoea | You'd need to resize the video to fit the screen anyway (else the CPU wouldn't be able to decode the video) |
| 23:48:12 | bluebrother | GameJerk: those are too resource hungry. |
| 23:48:22 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: looking now |
| 23:48:43 | GameJerk | hmm i load the FM preset file from the file tree just fine. but when i go back to FM radio on the main screen it says "no presets found.. autoscan?" |
| 23:48:54 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: there's a bunch of buffering and even audio stuff between the moment a pause event is sent and the moment it's processed? |
| 23:49:01 | kugel | feindbild, GameJerk: Mostly the hardware isn't capable. Future targets may have enough power. But even if the targets are strong enough, there're needs to be someone who implements it (anyone who wants that too). I personally think mpeg2 does a good job |
| 23:49:22 | GameJerk | dionoea: what is a good program to reencode the vids? |
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| 23:49:50 | feindbild | GameJerk: I use mencoder ... |
| 23:49:52 | dionoea | GameJerk: check the MpegPlayer wiki page |
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| 23:50:28 | kugel | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer |
| 23:50:33 | * | pixelma is surprised dionoea didn't recommend ... ;) |
| 23:50:34 | markun | feindbild, GameJerk: maybe you can use this as a starting point for your xvid player: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/2848 |
| 23:50:51 | scorche|sh | pixelma: me too :) |
| 23:51:14 | dionoea | pixelma: I'd have to explain it if I did |
| 23:51:20 | | Quit ompaul (Client Quit) |
| 23:51:38 | dionoea | And I don't have time now :) |
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| 23:51:52 | feindbild | GameJerk: mencoder infile.avi -of mpeg -oac mp3lame -lameopts vbr=2:mode=1:q=7 -af resample=44100:0:0 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg2video:dia=6:mbd=1:vqscale=5 -vf scale=220:176,harddup -ofps 15 -zoom -xy 220 -o outfile.mpg |
| 23:52:10 | feindbild | GameJerk: thats what I use for the sansa e200 ... |
| 23:52:19 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: wouldn't it keep buffering during pause? |
| 23:52:24 | amiconn | You don't need to resample anymore |
| 23:53:14 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: it would, yes. I'm referring to what happens between the sending of an event and its processing |
| 23:53:27 | GameJerk | thx fein: i might skip it. this player is for my brother. I'll just keep using my iphone for video |
| 23:53:28 | Nico_P | that's what induces the noticeable delay |
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| 23:55:16 | gevaerts | OK. Short summary of my USB tests (on c250). If I (only) disable all non-usb interrupts, it works "better". If I (only) disable double buffering (= simultaneous disk and usb I/O), there are no real changes. If I disable both double buffering and non-usb interrupts, everything seems to work perfectly (I now did 7GB without a hub and 2GB with a hub) |
| 23:55:36 | | Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 23:56:11 | gevaerts | Trying to put the buffer in IRAM doesn't work at all |
| 23:57:01 | GameJerk | when i put the FM preset file in .rockbox/fmpresets it doesn't load when i reboot. And when i load the file from the file tree it opens up just fine but doesn't allow me to save the presets so when I go to "FM Radio" it just says "No preset found, autoscan?" any ideas on whats going wrong? |
| 23:57:02 | kugel | linuxstb_: Regarding your parse_list function. Needs to be there a traling seperator? i.e. |..|... or ...|... |
| 23:57:10 | feindbild | deleting the .rockbox dir and freshly installing rockbox fixed the undefined instruction thingy ^^ |
| 23:57:45 | gevaerts | My interpretation of this is that the USB controller reads directly from RAM, without any buffering. If something else tries to access RAM simultaneously, the controller hiccups and either breaks of the packet or sends it with a (very) short interruption halfway, to which host and hub react badly. |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).