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#rockbox log for 2008-04-12

00:02:26 Quit adiamas ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
00:03:28 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (
00:06:21Bagderwow, -14 bugs this week
00:06:32 Join X3 [0] (n=d880ea51@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:07:12X3Does rockbox have the capability to read from Apples Database? Even with a third party app?
00:07:31Bagderrockbox doesn't do that, no
00:08:36X3When you first start the Rockbox OS, you won’t see much. Rockbox has a file-based browser by default, which means that it browses the physical files on the iPod’s drive. Apple’s OS, on the other hand, keeps all the music files in a huge jumble of nonsensical hashed folders, and all of that within a hidden folder so you can’t even see it with Rockbox. Never fear, though. Rockbox has a program called TagCache t
00:08:56X3Kinda sounds like theres a way to do it
00:09:02Bagderthat's slightly inaccurate info
00:09:05linuxstb_Where is that quote from?
00:09:26BigBambiX3: Tagcache reads the metadata on your files and builds the database from that
00:09:30linuxstb_TagCache is the old name for Rockbox's own database
00:09:48BigBambiX3: We cannot be responsible for inaccurate third party info
00:09:59linuxstb_That's almost two years old...
00:10:07X3yea I understand that I was just verifying whether it was correct or not
00:10:33Bagderthe database it speaks of is rockbox's own, not the apple one
00:10:34X3linuuxstb. Yes. But IF it was possible 2 years ago it would be possible today. (Probably)
00:10:34 Quit Alonea (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:10:40BigBambiX3: The Rockbox database reads the metadata on your files and builds the database from that
00:10:46X3Ok thanks
00:10:55BigBambiX3: Only if someone who wants it writes it
00:11:07BigBambiI very much doubt you will find many devs using itunes
00:11:17n1shmm, gphoto2 also says the clock is 2006 nov, gnomad bug maybe...
00:11:19X3haha yea
00:11:49X3just a pain to duplicate files
00:12:13X3So i am going to try JUST rockbox and see if i like it better
00:12:23Bagderwhy duplicate files?
00:12:30Bagderyou mean databases?
00:12:45linuxstb_X3: As BigBambi said, Rockbox's own database feature will automagically build a database from the tags in your music files.
00:13:14X3But it wont play the songs right?
00:13:22Bagderyes it will
00:13:26linuxstb_No, it will play the songs right.
00:13:41linuxstb_(assuming they're not encrypted)
00:13:47X3So on rockbox, I can listen to songs on the Apple OS?
00:13:54BigBambiWhy would we build a database of songs we can't play?
00:14:00BigBambiX3: eh?
00:14:16BigBambiNo, you can listen to songs in Rockbox that you transfered using itunes
00:14:24BigBambiSo long as they are not DRM crippled
00:14:37 Join Alonea [0] (
00:14:38X3If i dualboot with the AppleIpod OS, Can I listen to the DRM free music that is in the Apple database.
00:14:43X3using Rockbox
00:14:57X3okay i see
00:15:17BigBambiBut the apple database is irrelevant
00:15:57*Bagder gives up and heads to bed
00:16:02BigBambiThe Rockbox database will list all songs by their tags regardless of how you put them on your DAP - itunes/copy and paste/however the hell you want
00:16:38BigBambiAll the database does is build a database by scanning all the songs on your DAP and saving their tags
00:17:04BigBambiHow the songs got there / where they are saved / what the file names are / etc is irrelevant
00:17:18X3Yea I know
00:17:25X3Which is good
00:17:33 Quit krz2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:17:38BigBambiSo therefore the Apple database is ireelevant
00:17:51X3ahhh i see
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00:56:34DerPapstdon't know if this has been asked already but i just noticed that the sim compiled with cygwin doesn't print anything to stdout anymore...
00:58:25peturwhoa... IllInstr in .ibss something really is borked :(
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01:05:09 Quit ender` (" Sex is dirty - if you do it right. -- Isaac Asimov")
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01:15:00rmoore08anyone have a tut on how to dual boot using ipod loader
01:15:33n1sDerPapst: did it ever?
01:15:38 Join BaD_CrC [0] (
01:15:51DerPapstn1s: yes
01:16:09BigBambirmoore08: Be aware that loader 2 is off topic here - if you want support you will need to use the Rockbox bootloader
01:16:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:17:04n1sDerPapst: then a binary chop of revisions will probably help
01:19:05DerPapstit has been introduced today...
01:19:43n1sI seem to remember it not working for a long time but I don't use cygwin myself
01:22:29pixelmaDerPapst: there were a few messages disabled ib the last week I believe . I get some messages but a lot less...
01:25:32 Quit rmoore08 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:26:03pixelmasee r17019... and saratoga disabled the huge wma debug output around these days too
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01:27:21DerPapstah, i see :-)
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01:56:46webguest55woo rockbox irc :D
01:57:20 Join webguest71 [0] (n=7caa0aa0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:00:02webguest55where can i find info on rockbox development for the new ipods (specifically, 3g nano)
02:00:59DerPapstnew prots forum
02:01:04DerPapstmost probably.
02:01:24DerPapstbut there isn't much news. no one is really working on it.
02:02:02pixelmaDerPapst: new prost forum? :P
02:02:34 Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!")
02:02:48DerPapstah well. :-P
02:02:55webguest55:O noone working on it
02:05:25webguest55that bites oh well
02:06:00webguest55i will continue using standard firmware and check back every now and then. i didnt really want rockbox anyway but it has an option to play mono which would be useful for me
02:06:06webguest55good luck with your coding all
02:06:10webguest55i wish i had programming skills :D
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03:16:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:18:47RubberDucky132Hey guys, I don't want to fuss with the bmp resizer patch so can someone tell me the resolution I want to resize my album art to for a 5th gen ipod (320x240) with the default Rockbox theme?
03:19:37scorcheit depends on the theme
03:20:52RubberDucky132the default, cabbie 2.0
03:21:02RubberDucky132doesn't matter though i took a screenie and put it in PS and measured
03:21:05RubberDucky132it's 120x120 :P
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03:29:31 Join rmoore08 [0] (n=d880ea51@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:29:46rmoore08so i have rockbox installed. Its saying cant find .rockbox directory
03:29:49 Quit tedrock ()
03:29:49rmoore08what do i do
03:30:45scorcheunzip the .zip file just like the manual says...
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03:32:05MrcheesenipsHow do I add RocketBox to my IPod Nano 1st gen?
03:32:34scorcheI dont know what RocketBox you mean Rockbox?
03:32:45Mrcheesenipsoh yes sorry
03:32:59scorcheyou are going to want to read our fine manual ;)
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03:40:30MrcheesenipsDoes the automatic installer install anything on my computer?
03:41:25scorche"install" in what sense? sense? temporary files? libraries? backup?
03:43:40Mrcheesenipsnevermind...I downloaded the rockbox automatic installer and it said i insalled rockbox into my ipod. How do I acces it on my ipod?
03:44:06scorcheMrcheesenips: you shouldnt need to do anything...
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04:28:40lymecaSo I have a 4th gen 30gb here
04:28:59lymecaIt got bumped a bit dancing around
04:29:07lymecaBut now there is no sdc2
04:29:19lymecaSo the partition with Rockbox and the music data seemingly vanished
04:29:26lymecasdc1 exists but cannot be mounted
04:30:57lymecamount: you must specify the filesystem type
04:31:04lymecaI'm okay with that I guess
04:31:13lymecaI'm not okay with sdc2 disappearing
04:31:43aliaskSure you got the right drive?
04:31:57aliaskTry using a visual partition viewer - eg gparted
04:34:38DerPapstsdc1 is the raw firmware partition you can't mount it
04:35:59DerPapstif the mbr is broken you could try to dd a new one to your ipod.
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04:50:33MrcheesenipsI really like it so far..can I put videos on it?..on rockbox on my Ipod Nano 1st gen
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05:16:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:53:06soapvideos are discussed in the manual.
05:53:29soapand, yes, you can view full-speed video on the nano.
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06:12:51csc`scorche: what do you mean you dont know what rocketbox is? :P
06:13:18scorchedo you?
06:13:27csc`its a box with rockets on it
06:13:35csc`or an ipod with a jet engine
06:20:48lymecaI have a 30GB colour 4th gen
06:20:52lymecaI want to replace the MBR
06:21:08lymecaThis doesn't have a link for a 4th gen 30GB MBR
06:21:51n17ikhso are videos on a portable player really practical? It seems good at first glance but is there a real use for it?
06:22:31csc`id say so
06:22:36csc`think about home movie clips
06:22:44scorchewell, this is subjective...
06:22:53n17ikhlike showing your co-workers your kids?
06:23:07csc`or that cool video you saw on the internet, having a portable player that can play them on the go without a pc is a good idea
06:23:14csc`but ive got a feeling this is offtopic :P
06:23:31scorcheand highly subjective so there isnt a "right answer"
06:23:41n17ikhwell, I figured it was on-topic, since it's a feature of rockbox
06:23:53n17ikhand I wanted the opinions of some people who actually use it
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06:24:46csc`its also a feature of the standard apple firmware for the most recent ipods
06:24:51csc`atleast, excluding the shuffle
06:25:55scorchen17ikh: it is more of a "social discussion" which would fit in great with the other channel :)
06:28:29 Quit corevette_ (Client Quit)
06:29:06csc`scorche: maybe rb will get lucky and someone in SoC will break into the new nano's :)
06:29:25scorchewe arent going to accept a GSoC proposal for that
06:30:26csc`so if someone figured out how to interact with the 3rd generation nano, it still wouldnt be allowed? or just not from google
06:31:34scorchei think you misunderstand GSoC....all of the project picking and evaluating is all up to us...Google just funds it, etc
06:32:55csc`if the new nano's were supported, im not sure i would use rockbox on it anyway...ive become a podcast fiend lately and not sure how rockbox does with podcasts
06:33:01LloreanA 3rd Generation Nano port would be FAR too much work for one person to do over the space of summer. It wouldn't even be worth considering unless they had certain key information in advance.
06:34:04n17ikhI'd assume rockbox would play a podcast like it would any other music file
06:34:05scorchekey information including but not limited to: proven method for running code, ALL datasheets...
06:34:40n17ikhexcluding itunes' involvement
06:36:39n17ikhis the 3g nano even portalplayer-based?
06:43:12 Quit r0rshach ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
06:55:55DavidSGlymeca: There was a person here 2 days ago with the same problem I am not sure if he found the solution you might want to check the irc logs from that day arround this time to see.
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07:16:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:07:01rmoore08how do i exit doom or any other game ?
08:07:51LloreanDepends on your player. The manual should tell you.
08:07:59Mouser_XUse a sledgehammer. It'll solve (or break) nearly anything!
08:08:51rmoore08also. I clicked data base and it started searching
08:08:56rmoore08and it reached its limit
08:08:59rmoore08so i pressed previous
08:09:06rmoore08now how can i listen to the songs
08:10:16LloreanAre you saying they don't show up?
08:10:30rmoore08well i press database again and it continues searching
08:10:37rmoore08but the number doesnt go up any
08:11:04LloreanYou need to wait for it to actually finish.
08:16:38 Join qwm [0] (
08:16:44qwmscorche|sh: wake up.
08:18:04Mouser_Xscorche? Sleep? Never!
08:18:11Mouser_XOr at least, very rarely.
08:18:24scorcheMouser_X: you could say it is an "inside joke line"
08:19:01BHSPitLappyWhen should we be expecting the e-mails to go out regarding the top-secret IRC meetings, scorche?
08:19:21rmoore08Llorean are you saying the database searching will eventually stop?
08:19:36rmoore08cause it just say building. and its not moving
08:19:49 Join homielowe [0] (
08:20:40Mouser_Xrmoore08: Ocasionally a user may do something to cause the database to become corrupted while building. You might have to delete the partial files, and start over.
08:21:00qwmscorche: are you doing ok?
08:22:02scorcheBHSPitLappy: remind me which name?
08:22:11scorcheqwm: uhhhh....fine?
08:22:12BHSPitLappyscorche, Eisenhauer
08:22:20qwmscorche: good to hear mate. :)
08:22:25rmoore08Mouser_X how? Can i Just delete a whole directory and start over
08:23:22Mouser_XThat'd be a bad idea. The database is stored in the .rockbox directory.
08:23:47Mouser_XIt's a set of files, but I can't remember their extension. I've only used the database 2 or 3 times in the last 15 months.
08:24:07Mouser_X(I don't have it on my Gigabeat right now.)
08:24:25scorcheBHSPitLappy: i am not sure...i thought gevaerts sent them out, but perhaps it was onyl some of them....actually, did you suggest a time good for you?
08:24:38BHSPitLappyscorche, yeah.
08:25:17BHSPitLappyI guess he would have used the address registered with GSoC?
08:26:04scorchei assume he is using his main .be address
08:26:18BHSPitLappyscorche, I meant mine :P
08:26:58scorcheeither that or in a comment, or both
08:27:14BHSPitLappyActually, I got an e-mail from him originally about the meetings to begin with, so the line of communication is fine
08:27:18scorcheBHSPitLappy: put times good for you in a comment...just to make things handy
08:27:33rmoore08anyone know how i can restart setting up my database? I guess i corrupted mine
08:27:49scorchermoore08: delete the *.tcd files and try again
08:28:47rmoore08hmm... cant seem to find them
08:28:54rmoore08.rockbox directory?
08:29:17rmoore08found some *.cp
08:29:42 Join DerDome [0] (
08:29:45BHSPitLappyscorche, mmk.
08:30:22rmoore08no tcd files
08:36:00rmoore08ah nvm
08:36:02rmoore08never made them
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08:44:34rmoore08ok so i made teh tcd files...
08:44:41rmoore08and i still cant see database
08:45:38rmoore08ah i was using that. looks outdated
08:46:27scorchejust delete the tcd files again and follow the instructions in the manual
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09:26:04BHSPitLappyWell, I hope I don't get an e-mail requesting a meeting in the next 12 hours or so, as I'm going to bed :P
09:26:43peturI'm not planning to ;)
09:27:11bttbIs there a way to add ReplayGain to mp3s in Linux? I'm currently using Wine/foobar2000 to do that but I'd rather use a native app.
09:27:33bttbI'm interested in album gain btw
09:28:13scorchebttb: that is less of a Rockbox topic and a general audio question...
09:28:15bttbI mean I know LAME can write Track gain but I'm also looking for album gain.
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09:32:24bttbI have a rockbox question as well :) When clicking on "Install Themes" in rbutil I always get the message "No themes found". Is this functionality supposed to not work at the moment?
09:32:50scorchei assume you ahve an ipod video?
09:34:13scorchethose themes were removed from the server that the program parses due to some bandwidth issues...this should be fixed soon
09:34:33bttbAh, thank you!
09:36:16 Quit petur ()
09:43:40bttbActually I don't really mind because I installed rockbox yesterday and the default theme looks pretty nice to me.
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09:50:34 Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
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09:55:19bttbIs it a known problem that access to an iPod 5G's harddisk (usb mass storage) is slower when rockbox is loaded then when the original firmware is loaded? In the first case I around 20% "wait" and in the latter 0% while doing the same task (scanning files with Wine/foobar2000 to add ReplayGain tags).
09:55:57 Join ObsidianX [0] (
09:56:06bttbs/case I/case I get
09:56:50bttbThis is a 60GB 5G
09:58:40n1sbttb: rockbox currently uses apple's built in emergency diskmode which is very slow on some ipods
09:59:08bttbAh, ok, at least it's not a bug. Thanks!
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10:13:42mrkikon1s: will this change in future?
10:14:15scorchemrkiko: hopefully
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10:20:02mrkikoIs the problem consisting on the fact that you should implement via software all those stuff needed to implement the usb-storage thing?
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10:22:21linuxstbmrkiko: See for progress
10:23:42mrkikolinuxstb: thank you
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10:27:38*mrkiko feels good thinking about the hw usb implementation of the h3x0...
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11:23:18webguest30is it a problem for rockbox if my ID3 tags are written to in ISO 8859 and UTF16 within the same tag ?
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11:34:01pixelmawebguest30: hmm? I can't imagine that two different codepages work within the same tag anywhere...
11:35:40webguest30well it is unusual but what i have is the generl track info is written in ISO and the RG info is written in UTF16 in the same tag, will rockbox read all the info ?
11:35:41amiconnWell, it could work, if the UTF16 formatted fields are marked with a BOM or similar. Not sure whether this is allowed in ID3 tags
11:36:05amiconn...and whether rockbox supports it.
11:37:24webguest30if the RG info appears in rockbox's "ID3 track info" does it mean that rockbox is ok with it ?
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11:39:07webguest30the problem is that Foobar from v9 onwards only writes in UTF, they have discarded ISO, hence the mix in code pages in my tags
11:39:08amiconnYes, although that makes me wonder even more about this RG stuff ...
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11:39:45amiconnIf RG is really as important as its users state, you should notice whether RG works or not...
11:39:50*amiconn doesn't use RG at all
11:40:20webguest30RG is really nice, and there is a difference in album volume levels, thats why I'm asking
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11:41:30webguest30the difference in volume levels between albums would be very irritating without Replay gain
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11:42:24webguest30looks like I'll have to find am older version of Foobar to RG my albums with
11:42:44pixelmadid you already try?
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11:43:10amiconnI would think that if rockbox displays the values, it also uses them
11:46:14webguest30ok, but I'll experiment just to be sure, and amiconn, RG is great for playing back albums at the same volume, don't have to grab for the volume control when a loud album pops up, most modern albums are recorded very loudly, no dynamic range at all
11:46:41*amiconn would rather be irritated if album volume differences were leveled out
11:46:55amiconnI know what RG does, and I deliberately don't use it
11:47:33scorcheRG isnt going to fix the dynamic range...and this isnt a discussion on why amiconn should use RG...
11:47:35webguest30the volume changes within a album is retained
11:47:52webguest30roghto i'm off thanks
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12:28:29daurnimatoramiconn: its just easier on the ears, and you never have to adjust your volumne
12:29:14amiconnNo need to try to convince me. I rather keep the natural volume differences
12:29:51daurnimatornewer albums are so much louder than older albums
12:30:03daurnimatoryou need to turn down/up when you swap from one to the other
12:30:09*amiconn *very* rarely needs to adjust volume because of that
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12:44:48pathobitchi never get more than 50% on my battery charge
12:47:53pixelmacan you be more specific? I don't even know whether this is a question... ;)
12:49:46krzhi! anyone from mentors here?
12:49:49pathobitchim chargin up my sansa overday but its just giving me 50% juice which is depleting too fast and its hard to get through the night listening to music while im workin
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12:51:15krzgevaerts: hi! i've just updated the GUI for checking wps. any feedback? :-)
12:51:48pixelmapathobitch: how do you charge it (in the original firmware I suppose)? How old is your Sansa (c200 or e200)? How old is your installed Rockbox version? How long is "a night through"?
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12:53:13gevaertskrz: give me some time :)
12:53:22pathobitchfirmwares a few days old on an e200 and a night through would be a couple of days at most pixelma
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12:53:54pathobitchi charge it with the uhm.. the window which lets me read/write on the sansa
12:54:25pathobitchits the only mode that allows a connection with the vista pc
12:54:58*Mouser_X has a similar problem as pathobitch.
12:55:43Mouser_XFor whatever reason, my Sansa e250 doesn't charge when connected to a PC (using OF or Rockbox). I have to use a wall charger.
12:55:50krzgevaerts: sorry, sure! :-)
12:55:55Mouser_X(Using the wall charger works great though.)
12:56:19pathobitchdont have a wall charger myself
12:56:36Mouser_XIt's my dad's. He bought it for his c200.
12:57:36Mouser_XAnd by "won't charge" I should add that it doesn't drain the battery either (that is, although it doesn't get a higher charge when connected to a PC, it doesn't go down either, even if I leave it connected for 16 hours).
13:02:18cendresusb charging may not be enabled
13:03:16Mouser_Xcendres: In the OF?
13:03:31cendresin the device
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13:03:47Mouser_XIt has no other method of charging...
13:04:10Mouser_XIt has 1 port, and that's the serial port, where the USB adapter plugs into.
13:04:23cendreslook around in settings to see if it's enabled
13:05:03Mouser_XIf that were disabled by default, you do realize that would make it unusable? How would people charge it?
13:05:15cendresif it's not that, then i don't know
13:05:19Mouser_X(It didn't come with a wall charger. My dad found one somewhere else and bought it seperate.)
13:05:31cendreswith an ac/dc adapter
13:06:07Mouser_XBut it doesn't come with one, and it doesn't say any such thing in the manual.
13:06:25Mouser_XIf it was required (by default at least) you'd think they'd point it out.
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13:06:47cendreseither way. if usb charging was disabled in settings, it would explain why it doesn't charge from usb
13:06:57Mouser_XI'll look, but I don't have my Sansa here. I'll have to do it later.
13:07:15cendresi need to go to work. cya
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13:15:07Mouser_XI just looked (I had to go get something anyway, so I grabbed it). No such setting exists.
13:15:18Mouser_XIn the Sansa OF that is.
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13:21:45salty-horseattached some full-unicode DejaVuSans fonts to flyspray:
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13:25:29moossalty-horse: is there any boldish version?
13:25:40*moos checks
13:26:59moosI canot open the tar file
13:27:12salty-horsemoos, they don't look as well.
13:28:28salty-horsemoos, the tar file is ok here
13:28:40mooslet's retry then
13:28:59salty-horsenotice it's a tar.gz
13:29:10salty-horsethis is the ttf2bdf I used:
13:29:21moosok, got it
13:29:24salty-horseyou could try converting DejaVuSans-Bold and others
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13:29:45salty-horse(use -p to set point size)
13:30:27salty-horseyou can also try this (which uses freetype 2 instead of 1), but the output is uglier:
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13:34:52gevaertskrz: I got CheckWpsQt to compile (after fixing the case of some include files). I have some problems with the dll, due to linux/windows differences.
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13:43:35krz2gevaerts: i didn't check linux version, so, if you can launch it in windows - it would be better =)
13:43:56gevaertskrz2: no problem. I think I nearly got it working now
13:44:28gevaertskrz2: it works now
13:44:30krz2gevaerts: oh, thats good. in linux? or windows? =)
13:45:07krz2gevaerts: i've just updated log window, now it skips most of empty lines
13:45:38*DerPapst should really try out colinux...
13:45:53krz2it is cosmetic improvment =)
13:47:39gevaertskrz2: about the interview, I couldn't get hold of the people who are most interested in the WPS editor yet, so I'm not sure if they are available today
13:48:25krz2gevaerts: so, may be later. or even tommorow?
13:48:44gevaertskrz2: if tomorrow works for you, that would be perfect
13:48:54krz2sure :-)
13:49:18gevaertsOK. I'll let you know (by mail and with a comment) as soon as I know more
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13:53:03DerPapstgevaerts... the unofficial gsoc admin of rockbox :-)
13:53:22gevaertsDerPapst: just the unofficial secretary :)
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13:55:51DerPapsthehe :-)
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14:12:43Buschel_jhMikeS: you there?
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14:17:23RubberDucky132Could someone link me to the Wiki page on how to patch? I'm having trouble finding it
14:17:35RubberDucky132(assuming there is a wiki page on how to patch)
14:21:48RubberDucky132So I have to patch the source then compile it?
14:24:36RubberDucky132How does one go about compiling in Windows then? And how do you compile for a specific platform?
14:24:56 Quit BaD_CrC (Remote closed the connection)
14:26:27RubberDucky132Nvm didn't see the forum on it :)
14:26:33PaulJam , see the section "for developers". i found the "SimpleGuideToCompiling" quite useful.
14:27:48RubberDucky132PaulJam: yes I'm reading through it now it's a very nice guide thanks :)
14:29:36PaulJamif you find this too much work, you could look in the "unsupprted builds" section in the forums if you find a build for your player that already includes the patch. (but remember: no suppot for these builds)
14:30:02jhMikeSBuschel_: yep
14:30:55Buschel_jhMikeS: great!
14:31:33Buschel_jhMikeS: suggestion regarding r17071 -> why not disabling MAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE in the video's config file?
14:32:02jhMikeSbecause the 5.5g needs it
14:32:25jhMikeSbut doesn't need that hack code for the 30gig
14:32:27Buschel_jhMikeS: but only the 80GB one. my0 5.5G 30GB does not need it
14:32:36RubberDucky132Oh I love tinkering so I'll try this out first :) I have run on Linux before so I'm faaaairly familiar with compiling (so far as make > make install :P)
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14:32:58Buschel_I changed to config-file to only use MAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE when MEM!=32
14:33:40gevaertsBuschel_: MEM==32 also runs on the 80G IIRC. That change would break that
14:33:41jhMikeSMine has 2048 byte sectors in USB
14:34:51jhMikeSI don't know if that matters for the RB stack though
14:35:33gevaertsjhMikeS: it doesn't matter for the stack as such, but it does matter for the host
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14:37:40Buschel_ok, geveart's point is a good one −− so, I'll keep this change for my build only
14:38:10 Part pixelma
14:38:38Buschel_another question: anyone here with a PP5002-based target willing to test a patch?
14:51:52*DerPapst doesn'T have his 3G with him :-(
14:52:19DerPapsti can test it monday if no one steped forward until then.
14:52:34n1sjhMikeS: I played a little with your spi driver last night and it seems to work nicely for reading/writing the rtc in the pmic :)
14:53:17n1showever the rtc driver should be interrupt based too i think so I need to get interrupts from the pmic, any clues?
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14:53:57amiconnMAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE matters for the ata driver, precisely it's needed when an MK8011GAH is installed
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14:56:11amiconnThe ata driver only uses the sector cache if the disk needs it, so it doesn't hurt to enable it for all video ipods
14:58:59amiconnThe only drawback is slightly more code - that's why it's not enabled for all hdd based targets
14:59:40amiconnBuschel_: What kind of patch?
15:01:52*amiconn has 2 PP5002 targets to choose from :)
15:02:33Buschel_back again.
15:02:43Buschel_amiconn: asm-optimization in pcm_pp.c
15:02:54jhMikeSn1s: working on that now. what about using the one on the imx31?
15:02:54Buschel_i can only check for PP5020
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15:04:25n1sjhMikeS: if we want to completely cut power to the cpu when the player is turned "off" and keep the time and have the possibility of alarm wakeup
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15:05:49jhMikeSDepends if that circuit is actually cut or not or if it gets juice even if the core power is off
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15:08:58*Buschel is cleaning up his local changes and not yet submitted patches
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15:09:55Buschelanyone has some accessories to test patch FS #8603 against a 5G/5.5G?
15:10:25Buschelfor 2 months nobody could verifiy the patch :/ it saves quite a lot of power
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15:15:13gevaertsDomonoky: can you join #rockbox-gsoc for a bit ?
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15:17:14Domonokygevaerts: sure. but my time is a bit limited at moment.. :-)
15:19:23n1sjhMikeS: do you think it would be better to work on the internal rtc?
15:19:51amiconnBuschel: Now that's an annoying file transfer service... doesn't work at all. "Please wait... link is loading... " forever
15:20:23*amiconn wonders why Buschel doesn't use the quasi-standard, or an own little webserver
15:21:54jhMikeSn1s: if it does everything we need. it's less SPI traffic afterall.
15:22:42jhMikeSof couse it could always be initialized from the PMIC, used while powered up and the PMIC can still handle the wakeup
15:23:14n1sjhMikeS: from what I understand an alarm wakeup should work the the SoC in "Deep Sleep" mode (arm core powered down etc) so it might be enough
15:23:35n1sOk so I will now try usin the internal one instead :)
15:25:36amiconnn1s: Did I miss something and the beast already plays music?
15:25:49n1samiconn: no
15:26:28amiconnHmm, then I'd think alarm wakeup is a quite unimportant thing to work on now...
15:26:39n1sthis is however my first try at writing low level code so i thought I should start with something I could grasp
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15:27:29n1syeah alarm wakeup is no priority, just wanted to know if it would work or if we would need to switch to the external rtc for that
15:30:35 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:30:40amiconnBuschel: Got the patch now, but gotta go. Will test later.
15:30:47n1sbut as jhMikeS said we could of course use the internal one while running and the external one while powered down
15:30:47jhMikeSthe beast has ridiculous redundancy
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15:44:22Nico_PjhMikeS: what kind?
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15:48:00RubberDucky132Could anyone provide help for a newbie patcher? I've got my cygwin all set up and my bmp resize .patch file, I think I need to make a .diff file now, is that right?
15:49:10 Quit J (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:49:45BuschelRubberDucky132: copy the .patch-file to the rockbox-folder and call "patch -p0 < patchfile"
15:50:17jhMikeSNico_P: stuff is duplicated in the PMIC that's also in other hardware
15:51:12RubberDucky132Buschel: Done, is that it?
15:51:27jhMikeSThe PMIC is very much like the AS3514 in terms of what it has on board
15:51:32RubberDucky132Buschel: Apart from compiling
15:58:25Nico_PjhMikeS: ok I see
15:59:23jhMikeSI don't think the internal audio codec is hooked up which is unfortunate because then it could be used for voice and beeps instead of the PCM buffer
15:59:36RubberDucky132Why is it sometimes RB doesn't switch my iPod to disk mode when i plug in the USB connector and sometimes it does?
16:00:17gevaertsRubberDucky132: can you try a different USB port ?
16:00:36RubberDucky132gevaerts: Ok but it is being detected by the PC
16:00:47*jhMikeS has a functioning PMIC interrupt - power button and hp detection work
16:01:14RubberDucky132gevaerts: the backlight even lights up on the iPod, it knows it's being plugged in to the USB port (same happend on the other port)
16:01:27moosjhMikeS: wee !
16:02:25BigBambijhMikeS: \ô/
16:03:14RubberDucky132gevaerts: This isn't the first time either, my old iPod 30G did it to
16:04:21gevaertsAre you using the same USB cable ?
16:04:25*jhMikeS likes how the power off just reboots it instead of staying off. can this thing even be shut off?
16:04:35 Quit [CBR]Unspoken|w (Remote closed the connection)
16:05:31BigBambiI hope so
16:05:51BigBambiThe battery is completely dead after a few days of the OF being 'Off'
16:08:45moosthis silly suspend thing
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16:09:37moosThe Giagbeat F have the same problem, even if isn't in the same proportion
16:10:19BigBambiThe F turns off properly with Rockbox doen't it?
16:10:29jhMikeSI think the wakeup alarm might just be set to go off immediately
16:10:57RubberDucky132gevaerts: yep
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16:12:32moosBigBambi: it does but for OF that was the same IIRC, and if you don't switch the batterie Off, the batterie will empty relatively fast...
16:12:53BigBambiHuh, I've never noticed
16:13:45moosjust don't use your F few days without swisching batterie Off, and you will notice
16:14:54markunBigBambi: we only found out how to put the Gigabeat in sleep mode
16:15:13BigBambiI believe you guys, I just didn't know :)
16:15:42BigBambiThe F takes ages to start up then, if it is sleep mode already :)
16:16:06gevaertsMy Gigabeat usually says that its battery is empty on the first try to turn it on. It works fine the second time
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16:20:03BigBambiThe external battery switch is a nice touch (just a shame it clears the RTC!)
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16:21:00markungevaerts: yes, I also get that a lot
16:21:40markunmaybe we need to deinit the ADC when we shutdown rockbox
16:22:37RubberDucky132Does rockbox automatically get as much of a playlist into RAM from an HDD or do I need to turn the shock buffer up?
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16:23:40gevaertsByeongKeon: did you see my mail ?
16:24:12n1sRubberDucky132: the antiskip buffer only affects the low watermark where rockbox starts refilling the buffer
16:24:30n1siow large anti skip buffer -> early refill
16:24:46RubberDucky132n1s: so it's better not to turn that up?
16:24:51 Part atmishere
16:25:03n1sgenerally yes
16:25:37RubberDucky132So I take it Rockbox does indeed fill the RAM up to x% with your playlist?
16:26:26n1sit fills as much as it can in the buffer
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16:27:32Casainhohello :-)
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16:28:19gevaertskrz2: did you get my mail ?
16:28:38CasainhoI am looking for help with permissions on Linux, when untar "arm-linux-gcc-3.4.3..."
16:28:42n1sI wonder if making this rtc thingy interrupt based is needed, the polling in get_time() is limited to once per second anyways
16:30:03CasainhoI am trying to untar that file but I got an error saying something like "can't change the owner for "uid" 500, "gid" 500": operation not permited −− I am as root...
16:30:13krazykitCasainho, you should probably ask a linux channel, as that's not related to rockbox
16:30:13Casainhocan someone please help?
16:30:18BigBambiCasainho: You should ask google or a linux channel
16:30:24Casainhookok - sorry
16:30:38DerPapst#ubuntu i guess :-)
16:30:41gevaertsCasainho: (1) no need to do this as root, and (2) you can safely ignore these errors
16:31:58Casainhogevaerts: thanks - I will ignore then −− I am right know trying to have cross compiliers for ARMs... - there is very good information on TWiki of Rockbox however I have the needs for others because I am using u-boot :-)
16:32:20krz2gevaerts: yes, but it is better to make interview on sunday, or may be today in the evening, because om monday or tuesday i can do it only in the evening(about 19-22 UTC)
16:33:38gevaertskrz2: evening is fine for us. The problem is that the prospective mentors for WPS don't have time on sunday.
16:34:08krz2gevaerts: so lets make it in the evening =)
16:34:29gevaertsOK, monday evening, 19:00 UTC ?
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16:35:39krz2gevaerts: i also updated application - forgot some source files =) but it doesn't touch binaaries
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16:40:30RubberDucky132Oh dear, the bmp resize patch didn't seem to work; bmp isn't resizing! Could it be the themes fault?
16:40:39gevaertskrz2: can you confirm that monday evening, 19:00 UTC is ok for you ?
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16:42:12RubberDucky132Should a .patch file be empty after applying it?
16:42:43RubberDucky132Well it definetly had stuff in it before I applied it :S i opened it to check
16:43:19n1sthen you did something wrong :)
16:43:30RubberDucky132apparently so!
16:43:32robin0800playlist on sansa c240 dosent scan microsd card just produces an error.
16:43:35gevaertsRubberDucky132: you did run 'patch -p0 < patchfile', right, and not '>' ?
16:44:18RubberDucky132gevaerts: I did mean to, unless it was fat fingers yes
16:44:39krz2gevaerts: yes, i'll be here. if anything changes - i will say to you.
16:44:48gevaertskrz2: thanks
16:45:06RubberDucky132gevaerts: does the name of the patch file matter? I did change that
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16:45:33gevaertsRubberDucky132: the name doesn't matter, as long as you use the same name everywhere :)
16:45:51RubberDucky132meaning in cygwin as well?
16:46:49gevaertsRubberDucky132: I mean if the patch file is called bmpresize.patch, the command is 'patch -p0 < bmpresize.patch'
16:47:33RubberDucky132well I just did it again and it didn't change to 0kb
16:47:38RubberDucky132i'm guessing then i did >
16:48:04RubberDucky132(which i assume means convert the patch to the original source, which means change nothing, so it empties?)
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16:50:55gevaertsRubberDucky132: no. '>' means 'send the output of this program to the file', and patch produces no output, so it empties that file
16:51:22gevaertsRubberDucky132: but this is getting off-topic...
16:51:54gevaertsByeongKeon: did you get my mail ?
16:52:02RubberDucky132gevaerts: Ok, well i'm compiling again now so i'm hoping 2nd time is the charm
16:52:21ByeongKeonhello, gevaerts.
16:52:52ByeongKeongevaerts: I got your mail.
16:54:24gevaertsByeongKeon: great. is that time still ok for you
16:57:24ByeongKeongevaerts: I'm ok.
16:57:38gevaertsByeongKeon: ok. thanks
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17:09:20ByeongKeongevaerts: can i ask you something?
17:09:25gevaertsByeongKeon: sure
17:09:33 Quit Horscht (Nick collision from services.)
17:10:18ByeongKeonWhenever you leave some comments on my application, I got email from ''.
17:10:24ByeongKeonbut, this time.
17:10:53ByeongKeongevaerts: I didn't got any mail from google.
17:11:38gevaertsFor these scheduling things, I'm both leaving comments, and sending mails directly.
17:15:57Nico_PjhMikeS: I suppose aliask's FS #8792 can be closed now?
17:17:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:18:56TatshXis there test firmware for ipod nano 2g?
17:19:03TatshXthat i can risk trying
17:19:45krazykitbecause no one has done any work on porting rockbox to the newer ipods, which include the nano 2g and 3g and the classics.
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17:23:57ByeongKeongevaerts: could you start the schedule little early for me?
17:25:52gevaertsByeongKeon: I'll see what we can do.
17:26:04ByeongKeongevaerts: '12th at 21:00 UTC' is AM 6:00 in my timezone
17:27:17ByeongKeongevaerts: so, If we start it '12th at 21:00 UTC', I can't go to bed.
17:28:24gevaertsByeongKeon: I know. I'll try to let you know soon, but I need to get hold of one person first...
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17:38:51*Nico_P had forgotten how nice a target the H300 is
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17:43:44n1shmm, setting the time doesn't work :/
17:45:32gevaertsByeongKeon: would the 13th at 18:00 UTC work ? Or maybe 21:00 UTC (getting up early instead of going to bed late...) ? I _think_ the right people are available then
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17:48:33ByeongKeongevaerts: "13th at UTC" is better for me.
17:49:30ByeongKeongevaerts: Thank you.
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17:50:33gevaertsByeongKeon: we can also do earlier on the 13th. Maybe 13:00 UTC or 14:00 UTC ? (22:00 or 23:00 your time)
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17:52:18ByeongKeonBoth 13:00 or 14:00 UTC are great for me. :D
17:52:54gevaertsLet's do 13:00
17:53:13jhMikeSNico_P: What I'm about to commit adds the functionality
17:53:13ByeongKeonThank you. :D
17:53:32Nico_Pnice :)
17:54:04ByeongKeongevaerts: see you tomorrow.
17:54:14gevaertsByeongKeon: good night
17:55:06jhMikeSI guess I'll throw-in the debug info that goes with that as well
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17:57:47preglowanyone know if the dab version of cowon d2 has both fm and dab?
17:58:21 Quit davina (Client Quit)
18:01:09Bagderno idea
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18:04:21preglowhm, no, it never seems to be mentioned
18:04:33preglowi guess it doesn't matter much anyway, i don't seem to use the radio much
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18:42:16shotofaddsHmm.. my first red, and it wasn't even something I did :/
18:42:28shotofaddssegv on the build server..
18:43:20*perplexity raises an eyebrow and tootles off to check the build server logs
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18:51:57Bagdershotofadds: let's blame rasher until anything else is proven ;-)
18:52:58gevaertsI seem to remember that this has happened before on his server
18:53:52DerPapst2 lousy points is nothing to worry about :-P
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18:55:23shotofaddsto be honest I expected some points much earlier than this...
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19:07:50preglowshotofadds: oy
19:07:56preglowshotofadds: do we have any idea what dab chip is in the d2?
19:08:52shotofaddspreglow: nope. with any luck it'll be that same as linuxstb's dax
19:10:25shotofaddsbtw. the D2 DAB has both FM and DAB.
19:11:54 Quit phinze ()
19:11:59DavidSGjust posted my solution to the gsoc test on my page.
19:13:49*gevaerts updates the schedule :)
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19:15:08preglowshotofadds: ahh, good to know
19:15:15preglowshotofadds: i'll very probably be getting one next week
19:15:26shotofadds(but the FM tuner is /really/ bad#
19:15:38shotofaddsarrgh why can I never type properly...
19:15:45gevaertsDavidSG: Failure to find: tmp/rcc/release_shared/qrc_application.cpp
19:15:57DavidSGsorry just a sec
19:16:25preglowshotofadds: i'm more interested in the dab tuner anyway :)
19:16:32preglowwhich i hear is decent, but nothing to hoist the flag over
19:16:34shotofaddspreglow: don't worry everything will be working by next week.... ;-)
19:16:56shotofaddsthe DAB is pretty good. no complaints here.
19:17:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:18:04preglowso you've got a dab one?
19:18:26 Quit RubberDucky132 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:18:30*preglow looks forward to statically linking another codec to get dab working
19:19:00shotofaddsyes, but I haven't even opened it. DAB is some way off my agenda....
19:19:48shotofaddspreglow: nah, just make DAB a plugin. That's be fun :-)
19:20:27DavidSGgevaerts: ok it is posted again
19:22:17preglowmight be a good first step, actually
19:22:40n1swhat codec/bitrate does dab use?
19:23:13LloreanMPEG-2, and "not good enough for whiny wikipedia posters" I think.
19:23:26 Part atmishere
19:23:31preglowmpeg layer 2
19:23:40Lloreanright, that
19:23:44preglowbitrates from 64 to 256, i've seen
19:23:47preglowseldom good enough
19:23:53preglowaudible artifacts are not at all seldom
19:24:11shotofaddsit's all 128k here in the uk. sounds "not great" :/
19:24:30shotofadds(but still way better than the D2's FM reception...)
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19:24:53preglowsounds like the analogue -> digital satelitte thing all over again
19:24:56preglowfrom ok picture to worse
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19:25:24shotofaddsit's quantity vs. quality again. there's no money in quality.
19:25:30crwllhere in finland it was mostly 256k (i think), but the broadcasting company quit beaming them a while ago...
19:25:55shotofadds(back on topic) a plugin would at least allow you to dump to disk, anyway.
19:26:10preglowwas it you that said someone said the d2 should be upgradable to dab+?
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19:26:28preglowprobably just means the receiver chip is a pure receiver/demodulator
19:26:52DavidSGgevaerts: is it working now?
19:27:03shotofaddssupposedly somebody enquired at cowon's german rep (where they are switching to DAB+) and they confirmed.
19:27:16gevaertsDavidSG: it seems to work.
19:27:50gevaertsDavidSG: maybe mention in the readme that if you use the patch, you still need the pngs from the binary
19:28:13DavidSGcool, can i ask what opperating system you are using? Sure I will add it right away
19:28:28gevaertsI'm on linux (debian unstable)
19:28:54DavidSGthank you
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19:37:01DerPapstUI for 1dtetris almost done ^^
19:38:06Nico_Ptetris 1d looks like the most fun unattended game ever!
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19:40:46*gevaerts would prefer 1drockblox
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19:51:11damunixHi gevaerts
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19:55:08Kephhey guys
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19:56:51damunix /msg nickserv set unfiltered on
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19:58:49Kephuforgot my nick's Kephu on freenode
19:59:19Kephuis there a way to toggle which directories are excluded from database?
19:59:53DerPapstput a file "database.ignore" in the dir that should be ignored.
20:00:34BHSPitMonkeygevaerts, did you receive my reply?
20:00:36Kephuthanks ;)
20:00:51gevaertsBHSPitMonkey: I just saw it, yes. Thanks
20:00:58Kephuis it recursive, or do I have to put it in subfolders as well?
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20:01:39DerPapstBHSPitLappy: finnished your task?
20:01:49PaulJamanother way is via a custom tagnavi.config file (if you want the dir to be included in one view but not in another)
20:02:11BHSPitMonkeyDerPapst, no, today's kind of my first day to start working on it :[
20:02:29BHSPitMonkeyThis past week of class has been nuts
20:02:46DerPapsttoo bad.
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20:04:40Kephufrom what I've gathered, pictureflow does not recognize images embedded in files via itunes, is that correct?
20:05:44Kephuand it still only supports bmps, there have been no sneak updates to the rockbox core? ;)
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20:06:23Horschtoh, my "nope" was wrong
20:06:24KephuHorscht: I know, I'm on the page now, I just wanted to be sure - this will mean quite a bit of work, which I'd rather avoid unless necessary ;)
20:06:50Horschtit should have said "yes, you are correct"
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20:07:13Kephudamn, and I was just getting my hopes up ;)
20:07:35Horschtas your question was clearly "is that correct" and not "does rockbox support embedded album art
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20:09:29linuxstbKephu: Does itunes embed album art in files? I thought it created its own album art database?
20:10:21Horschtgood thing I have not once used itunes :D
20:10:37Horschtand have my album art "exbedded" (if tbhat
20:10:48Horscht(if thats's a word)
20:11:50 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
20:11:59Kephulinuxstb: it does. If you don't have an itunes account (or, as in my case, there's no itunes store in your country at all), you can paste artwork in file info
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20:12:48Horschtanyways, reas the "How to Use Embedded iTunes Cover Art On An iPod" section of the albumart wiki
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20:20:49[TiZ]Hey, guys... The viewport tag for WPSs... can you omit the background color and foreground color?
20:21:01 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:21:39 Quit ctaylorr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:22:40[TiZ]Augh, drat.
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20:23:11linuxstb[TiZ]: Why is that a problem?
20:23:44 Quit XavierGr ()
20:23:47[TiZ]It means that in order to create a version of my theme that uses black text instead of white text, I'll have to create additional WPSs.
20:24:05[TiZ]I already have two WPSs to put it on the left or right side of the screen.
20:24:52[TiZ]Ideally, I'd have it just use the already defined colors.
20:24:53 Quit DavidSG (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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20:26:35n1slinuxstb: have you seen FS #8517 (thinking you have been hacking a bit at the wps code lately) :)
20:26:54n1sinsert question mark where appropriate...
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20:28:32Mouser_Xn1s: Funny thing is, my mind inserted the "?" without me even realizing it wasn't there...
20:29:48Kephuhuh. Pictureflow's still "preparing album artwork" for a very long time. Was this database.ignore file supposed to contain something?
20:30:14Kephubecause the "preparing" time's roughly the same, despite having much less to work with
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20:31:16Kephuaaand it dies with "no albums found" - the hell?
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20:33:03[TiZ]When converting fonts with Rockbox Font Converter, should I turn off antialiasing, cleartype, all that good stuff?
20:33:04linuxstbn1s: Yes, I've seen it... Have you pointed Nico_P to it?
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20:33:44n1sah, yes he was the one who put in aa, no I haven't seems to forget when he's around
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20:34:16n1sshame having bugfixes (if that's what it is) rotting in the tracker
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20:36:25linuxstbn1s: Yes, it seems a bug, but also doesn't seem the best fix. e.g. shouldn't the mask just be a #define, rather than a variable?
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20:36:47DerPapstbummer... the old archos daps with bitmap display don't 1dtetris :-P
20:37:09Horscht1dtetris ftw
20:37:18Horschtis there a rockbox plugin?
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20:37:36DerPapstnot yet :-)
20:38:04DerPapstlinuxstb: while speaking of preprocessor magic.. can you check test_viewports? there is a mistake a #else (...) has to be #elif
20:38:14n1slinuxstb: that would seem reasonable, yes
20:38:15DerPapstlinuxstb: don't know the line number though
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20:39:18n1sor at least static const to avoid recreating it everytime the function is called...
20:39:31linuxstbDerPapst: Didn't someone commit a fix for that?
20:39:48DerPapsthaven't noticed.
20:39:57linuxstbSeems they didn't (checking the svn logs)
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20:57:49*phinze is ready for his interview... hopefully
20:58:22linuxstbphinze: I think we're running late... The interview previous to your's has just started.
20:58:49phinzelinuxstb: no problem... rough ETA?
20:59:19gevaertsphinze: I guess no more than 20 or 30 minutes
20:59:36phinzegevaerts: sounds good... i'll be here
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21:00:03[TiZ]Hey, I need to double-check something. If I converted Arial Unicode MS and included it with my theme, you guys wouldn't like that very much, would you?
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21:01:50linuxstb[TiZ]: It's up to you what you share on your own webspace. Any files hosted by must be "legal" - i.e. have a license that says that they may be redistributed in the format we are redistributing in.
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21:02:27[TiZ]Argh. Licensing frustration. Yeah, that's what I was looking for. There goes that idea.
21:02:33[TiZ]Thanks for the info.
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21:10:09markun[TiZ]: you could add instructions how people can convert their own copy of Arial Unicode MS..
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21:13:23Mouser_XWould a link to the font work?
21:13:30Mouser_XIt wouldn't be hosted on Rockbox...
21:15:00linuxstbAren't there any equivalent Free fonts?
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21:30:00saratogawhen someone resumes a file after powering off rockbox, how is the offset to reume playback stored?
21:31:05n1sin nvram(.bin)
21:31:09linuxstbIt depends on the codec I think. Some (e.g. mp3, or maybe only mp3) store the byte offset, others store the offset in ms. But I'm sure there's room for improvement here.
21:32:19[TiZ]markun: My experiences with converting fonts on windows is not pleasant.
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21:34:47JuanPradai just created a theme and i'd want to ask for permissiono to edit the wiki :]
21:36:38ChrononIs JuanPrada your wikiname?
21:38:28Chrononone sec
21:39:17JuanPradaIs the first time I use my real name on the net! I'm registered in the forums with 'countach' nickname
21:39:23Chrononok. You should be all set
21:39:37ChrononI know the feeling.
21:40:01JuanPradaThanks, I'll make a post in the forum and then modify the wiki
21:40:14ChrononGreat. :)
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21:43:55ChrononBy the way, I thought I'd mention that the config file option appendix is not up to date. I posted a patch at to include the options for the line selector start and end color.
21:44:14ChrononI don't think the wiki page is exactly up to speed either. I can take another look later.
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21:44:48saratogathese bitmap strip changes are great
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21:45:09saratogathey've somehow cut the "build zip" step on my machine by at least a factor of two in quickness
21:45:46shotofaddsunzipping to the device is so much quicker now. i'm doing rather a lot of that at the moment :/
21:46:01ChrononI guess all of those tiny graphics add up during archiving/extraction
21:46:09saratogai wish we'd done this ages ago
21:46:19saratogawould have probably saved me hours of sitting around waiting during testing
21:47:12ChrononI'm off to enjoy some sun.
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22:01:40n1sThe changes to lang file building help too, they are now built before the regular rockbox and rebuilt when the lang files change instead of being rebuilt with every 'make zip' as they were before
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22:02:08Bagderright, that's a plus too
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22:11:34JuanPradai have a (i supouse) silly question:
22:11:54JuanPradawhy a _? is displayed behind the teme title=
22:17:39soapin what context are you seeing the _, JuanPrada?
22:18:55JuanPradait shows in the tittle of the theme, in the wiki
22:19:30JuanPradaHere: I just added the "Blackroad" theme
22:19:51JuanPradaThere are other titles with the same thing
22:20:07 Quit DavidS1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:20:57soapone sec while the page loads...
22:21:24soapBlackRoad is a "wikiword"
22:21:39soapnote the (I think it is called) CamelCase
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22:22:14soapthe wiki is trying to make every instance of the word "BlackRoad" into a link to the page called BlackRoad (which does not exist), thus the _?
22:22:26*Bagder was close to reply in the "Rockbox Player" thread but discovered his mistake in time
22:22:29soappreface your unintentional wikiwords with !
22:22:52soapchange BlackRoad to !BlackRoad, the ! won't be shown, and it will prevent the wiki from trying to make the word a link.
22:22:53linuxstbBagder: Has anything happened yet with that project?
22:23:14BagderCasahino (?) got linux to boot on his dev board
22:23:27Bagderthat's about it
22:23:43[TiZ]Hey, guys.... Llorean and I discussed this here recently, but I want to hear from the rest of you on this... Currently, when you set a backdrop from the context menu, the setting isn't saved when you shut down the player. Any of you think this behavior should be changed?
22:24:00Bagderand I think it came with all the linux stuff as binaries...
22:24:12linuxstbWhat a surprise...
22:24:26soapJuanPrada, nice looking theme, and nicely commented .wps file, but I do want to ask you one thing...
22:24:26Bagderso the achievement is what my kids would almost manage
22:26:15soapPlease include a license with the WPS. We have too many WPSs already with no clear license. No explicit license = "All Rights Reserved" and that means we can't even touch your theme to update it to (in the future) new WPS syntax if you are unavailable. If you want to maintain it as "All Rights Reserved" please be explicit about it in the wiki and in the .wps file and perhaps in the .zip file itself. If you don't please consider using one of the Creat
22:26:15soapive Commons licenses, or whatever established one floats your boat.
22:27:00JuanPradaI think I put something like this in the .cfg file
22:27:26[TiZ]Instead of saying "my license type is blah blah blah", can we just define our own terms in a .txt file, like saying "you can do this and this, but not this"?
22:27:36soapagain, making note of the chosen license on the wiki page, and somewhere in the .zip (license .txt) and perhaps even in the .wps file itself. That being said, I ASSume you have rights over the automobile photo used.
22:27:50linuxstb[TiZ]: You can, but it's not recommended to try and write a license if you're not a lawyer...
22:27:59linuxstb(or even if you are...)
22:28:03soapTiZ - you can do whatever you want, but a linuxstb beat me.
22:28:15[TiZ]Ugh... The only lawyer experience I have is Phoenix Wright.
22:28:24[TiZ]Blargh. Bureaucracy. :(
22:28:27linuxstbLots of problems are caused by people who invent their own licenses
22:28:30ashesit would be nice to have a way in rockbox to encrypt an address book
22:29:15JuanPradaIt's my automobile, and the photo is taken by me :)
22:29:28soapThere is an existing license out there to fit any need. Homemade license restrictions (which is what anything but public domain release is) are a PITA as it makes it hard to clearly sort the themes.
22:29:41Bagderashes: so write a plugin!
22:29:43ashesan encrypted file suffix, like .aes, which opens a software keyboard to enter the password
22:29:57[TiZ]Creative Commons will probably work for me. I'll just have to read over it before submitting my theme.
22:30:00ashesand loads the file in to memory
22:30:10[TiZ]Anyways, how about that backdrop saving issue?
22:30:11Bagdersoap: actually, public domain release is _also_ PITA ... :-)
22:30:38soapmaking my case for a license! ;)
22:31:32soapJuanPrada, also consider including contact information in the theme.
22:32:08 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:32:25JuanPrada( the background pic in BlackRoad Theme; ) Well, I gonna do that license thing. :-]
22:32:29amiconnpreglow: Pretty much all DAB stations here use 192kbps and there are usually no audible artifacts as long as reception is good enough
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22:34:35amiconnjhMikeS: Do you think it would be a good idea to make the thread slot count target dependent in general?
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22:34:58JuanPradai changed BlackRoad to !BlackRoad, and the ! is shown..
22:35:35soaphmm, that is because it is a heading.
22:35:47soapThere is a different trick for headings, isn't there....look at how I changes some of the other ones.
22:36:58shotofaddsdo you need a space before the ! ?
22:37:37soap−−-+ !BlackRoad
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22:38:21amiconnOr use <nop> instead of !
22:38:30amiconnThat's in fact the older method
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22:38:48soapoh, I thought you were talking something else. I did not know that one.
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22:40:37amiconnBuschel's PP pcm patch produces strange noises on PP5002
22:41:21JuanPradaThanks again! I just created the topic in the forum
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22:53:20[TiZ]Guys... I'm very concerned with the current backdrop settings.
22:53:44[TiZ]I have a lot of backdrops, and I like to switch them on a whim. But in order to do that, I have to make a .cfg file for EVERY backdrop I have.
22:54:06[TiZ]That's if I want the settings to be saved
22:54:21[TiZ]I can switch backdrops with the context menu for bmp files, but the settings won't be saved.
22:54:45[TiZ]I already talked with Llorean about this, but I want to hear from the rest of you.
22:54:50Horschti think they will, if the bacjdrops are in the .rockbox folder
22:54:51amiconnNo, you don't. The backdrop needs to be in /.rockbox/backdrops in order to be saved persistently, but you don't need a .cfg
22:54:54 Quit [CBR]Unspoken|w (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:55:00[TiZ]That's what he said too.
22:55:12amiconnThis is partially historic, and partially desired behaviour
22:55:15[TiZ]Is there any easy way to get to .rockbox/backdrops?
22:55:23[TiZ].rockbox is hidden by default
22:55:28 Quit hannesd (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:55:38Llorean[TiZ]: You can easily show hidden files from the quick menu
22:55:50Lloreanquick screen, rather
22:55:55Bagderimho, the requirement for it to be in that dir for it to become persistent should be removed
22:56:07[TiZ]The quick screen... Oh, isn't that thing where you hold Menu (on iPods)?
22:56:16Llorean[TiZ]: Yes.
22:56:29[TiZ]I agree with Badger here.
22:56:29amiconnBagder: It has one advantage though: A file in that dir is less likely to become deleted
22:56:41LloreanBagder: Well, with the induction of viewports, global backdrops are going to probably end up a lot less flexible anyway, I suspect. It's possible the "Set as backdrop..." option should be removed instead.
22:57:12[TiZ]What, and make my backdrop-oriented theme harder still to use?
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22:58:29Llorean[TiZ]: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this sort of decision will depend on a lot more than just whether it'll make you actually have to provide .cfg files.
22:58:59[TiZ]It's not that I have to provide them.
22:59:08[TiZ]It's every user of my theme who wants to use their own backdrop.
22:59:24shotofaddsbeing able to set a backdrop from an arbitrary .bmp is a worthwhile featue imho
22:59:32LloreanWith the viewportification of the UI, it's entirely possible that we'll end up with the option to set backdrops for individual viewports, or have other considerations relating to backdrops, and the idea of just setting an image as a global backdrop without setting up viewports relating to it will vanish.
22:59:54Lloreanshotofadds: That will never vanish. The option to do it from the context menu might need to.
23:00:10[TiZ]That doesn't make any sense to me.
23:00:17amiconnPer-viewport backdrops are very unlikely to happen
23:00:44Lloreanamiconn: I challenge that statement. I guarantee that someone will pick away at the idea until they manage to find an acceptable way to do it.
23:00:58shotofaddsSorry, I meant the ability to set from the context menu. what would be the difference compared to setting in a .cfg file?
23:01:09LloreanIt may be unlikely soon, but I find it likely in the long term.
23:01:44Buschelamiconn: just read the patch fails on PP5002. sorry, didn't want to hurt your ears...
23:01:48[TiZ]Why? What are practical uses for a per-viewport backdrop?
23:01:51amiconnLlorean: We'd lose *a lot* of gfx performance on anything < 8 bit depth, and complicate things much more
23:01:54*Buschel better checks the code again
23:02:13amiconnWhat will probably happen is the possibility to select different backgrounds per viewport - choose from colours, or the global backdrop
23:02:32Llorean[TiZ]: What are practical uses for backdrops in the menus period, if you want to pursue that silly line.
23:02:59Lloreanamiconn: Per-viewport backdrops don't have to happen on <8-bit then. Honestly, backdrops are iffy on those anyway for being very visible.
23:03:04 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:03:25amiconnBuschel: It plays music for a few seconds, then starts to make strange noises, and the track position doesn't advance. After stopping playback, I got a few more seconds of my song (1), also mixed with those strange noises
23:03:27[TiZ]Backdrops in the menus are eye-candy.
23:03:40BigBambiSo is a themable WPS
23:03:52Llorean[TiZ]: Yes, and multiple backdrops are too...
23:03:54amiconnThey became quasi-periodic, and didn't stop until reboot (and reinstatement of an unpatched rockbox.ipod)
23:03:55[TiZ]That's spelled wrong.
23:03:58Buschelamiconn: but it plays reasonable audio for some time?
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23:04:19[TiZ]When I say practical, I mean in the theming context.
23:04:19Llorean[TiZ]: You asked for a practical use. You use that as a challenge to my supposition as to the direction things might take, yet claim your use is fine as "eye-candy", completely non-practical?
23:04:21amiconnBuschel: Depends on the definition of 'some'. A few seconds, not more
23:04:25shotofaddswhy would anyone want multiple backdrops?
23:04:33amiconnI had voice enabled, btw
23:04:43Llorean[TiZ]: Well, for example, splashes, the quick menu, and other UI widgets can arrive in their own viewport with backdrop
23:04:59[TiZ]I object to your previous statement.
23:05:02Llorean[TiZ]: As well, it's likely that the "status bar" viewport, if using part of the WPS, should use the WPS backdrop, while the List widget should use a list backdrop.
23:05:06[TiZ]By that argument, then theming should not be possible at all!
23:05:16LloreanI never said "non-practical" was bad.
23:05:26LloreanI said that YOU suggested it was by using is as a challenge to my statement.
23:05:37[TiZ]Perhaps I used incorrect wording. I apologize.
23:05:40LloreanAnd I've given you uses, within the context of themeing, for multiple backdrop images in viewport resolutions.
23:05:59[TiZ]But if the status-bar viewport, list viewport, and other backdrops were to all be different...
23:06:04[TiZ]That could actually get really ugly.
23:06:08LloreanEspecially considering the use of viewports from the WPS as a status bar, there will be room for needing separation of backdrops.
23:06:12[TiZ]A bunch of squares with different backgrounds.
23:06:51Llorean[TiZ]: Have you looked at applications in graphical OSes in the last two decades? You get LOTS of pop-ups with a backdrop separate from the desktop image...
23:06:53JuanPradasoap , I just updated my BlackRoad theme .zip, fell free to chekout the licence files added.
23:06:55LloreanThis is not a new concept.
23:07:32LloreanBackdrop images don't have to just be "a picture of grass" or whatnot. They can also be used, like many WPS authors do, to create the separation of information, window borders, and other useful things.
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23:08:04[TiZ]I've seen that. WPS authors have always been to seperate their info just fine with one backdrop.
23:08:16[TiZ]A lot even create the illusion that there's some window onscreen.
23:08:20*amiconn better doesn't start to comment on themability, and eye candy vs. usability now
23:08:33amiconnThat's a nearly endless field....
23:08:58Llorean[TiZ]: Yes, but the backdrop can't be used when there's the dynamic display and hiding of information. For example, you can't use a backdrop to display a frame around the Album Art unless that frame is visible even when there is none.
23:09:03LloreanA much maligned limitation already.
23:09:42[TiZ]Oh! Hey, I see where you're going with that.
23:09:47*JuanPrada has just made a very ugly theme but tested with himself during a year and preferring that one to other prettier
23:10:21[TiZ]But it's not like WPSs that expose the global backdrop will disappear.
23:10:33[TiZ]You haven't proven that there is no need for the ability to easily set backdrops.
23:10:45[TiZ]And that need will probably not disappear.
23:10:55*JuanPrada don't use english as his normal language and say sorry about that
23:11:31Llorean[TiZ]: WPSes should always explicitly set a either a background color, or a backdrop image. Not doing so allows them to be unusable without changing the backdrop.
23:12:05LloreanMuch like setting background and foreground to the same color, or loading a backdrop image that's very dark, with dark text.
23:12:45LloreanWe get people with bug reports because they can't figure out how to use their player once they've got black on black or similar.
23:13:51LloreanEven "global" backdrops should at least pick a foreground color too, so that you're guaranteed UI readability
23:13:56LloreanIn which case, you've already got a .cfg, and all is well.
23:15:38[TiZ]Themes like Kelp, Twilight, and ClearView are designed so that the user can pick whatever backdrop he want. It seems like you're grasping now. I don't see why you're so against this.
23:16:38LloreanBecause I'm the one who sees confused users panicking because they suddenly can't use their iPod any more.
23:16:45LloreanBecause of improperly designed themes such as these.
23:17:06LloreanI don't see why you're so dead set against simply performing the trivial task of creating .cfg files.
23:17:10[TiZ]Improperly designed?!
23:17:16[TiZ]What makes them improperly designed?!
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23:17:57LloreanWell the feature itself is. Unlike the color question, where the settings won't let them choose equal colors, a backdrop can be loaded always because we can't predict if it'll produce unreadable results.
23:18:04Horschtwhat themes are we talking about anyways?
23:18:08[TiZ]It's just a PITA, when it could be much easier! If a user decides to pick a white backdrop when they've got white text, it's their fault!
23:18:18Llorean[TiZ]: Easier for authors, PITA for clueless users.
23:18:31[TiZ]The clueless users are who I'm thinking about
23:18:32LloreanSorry, but frankly, I'll make you guys actually do a little more work in a SECOND to help make things easier on people who can't know better in advance.
23:19:02[TiZ]I keep saying that users can use whatever backdrop they want. I mean WHATEVER backdrop they want.
23:19:22LloreanStop meaning that.
23:19:23[TiZ]So is it fair to make the clueless users have to make a .cfg for their own backdrop?
23:19:58[TiZ]Ugh, this is madness. Fine, I give up.
23:20:00[TiZ]You win.
23:20:30LloreanYou basically have two options with themeing: Unlimited customisation, user beware, or Prepackaged themes.
23:20:40[TiZ]I pick the first.
23:20:45LloreanYou don't have the first
23:20:51Llorean95% of themeing options are already denied via the UI
23:21:04LloreanThere's no easy creation of modification of WPSes, you can't redefine UI viewports, etc.
23:21:15[TiZ]Okay, fine. Not the first.
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23:21:24[TiZ]I just want the backdrop customizable.
23:21:28LloreanIt WILL BE
23:21:31[TiZ]Look, I'm done. I'm tired of fighting with you on this.
23:21:34[TiZ]I already gave up.
23:21:36LloreanIt will always be customizable. Just not via the normal UI.
23:21:38[TiZ]I'll do it your way.
23:21:51LloreanAnd I'm not saying this is how it will change, necessarily
23:21:58LloreanI'm saying "this seems the most obvious to me"
23:22:41[TiZ]Look, man. I have some chores to finish, so I'll be right back. I'm not arguing with you over this anymore.
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23:39:57lymecaError: Unable to open /dev/sdc - unrecognised disk label.
23:40:06lymecaThat's when I try fdisk /dev/sdc
23:40:15lymeca80gb 5.5gen
23:41:18 Quit davina ("GNU/Linux the free alternative to Windows")
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23:47:16rasherBagder: I know. My server segfaults once in a blue moon. I've no idea what to do about it. Feel free to remove the server if it's annoying.
23:47:45Bagderwell, if it gets to that point I'll know what to do!
23:47:56Bagderuntil then we can just point fingers at shotofadds ;-P
23:48:07shotofaddsmeh :p
23:48:28rasherWas it an ipod build?
23:48:44amiconnBagder: What about the strange hole in the table?
23:49:04amiconnThose holes don't appear often, but it's not the first occurence either
23:49:06[TiZ]Okay, I'm back.
23:49:23[TiZ]I'll finalize the stuff in my theme, and get it ready for distribution.
23:49:50shotofaddsrasher: the red was an iPod sim build
23:49:55amiconnjhMikeS: around?
23:50:20Bagderamiconn: It's some sorts of bug in the master build script that is triggered by some sort of server problem
23:50:34rashershotofadds: huh, so it's my native gcc.. Even weirder.
23:50:55 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
23:51:09Bagderrasher: ld terminated with signal 11 [Segmentation fault]
23:51:26rasherI think it's been ld every time. Other than that, it's a mystery to me
23:51:33*amiconn 's server also segfaultet once during a build. Fortunately only once....
23:51:53amiconnI think that's what you get for running a distribution in flux (aka debian unstable)....
23:52:09rasherFirst time it happened I tried to re-run the exact same build later, but it worked fine
23:52:30rasheramiconn: meh, I think it's what you get for using software designed by humans (and hardware, perhaps)
23:55:47 Quit Horscht ("Snak 5.3.3 Unregistered copy. Evaluation period is over. Program will now quit. Thanks for using Snak.")
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23:56:20GragureeI'm a begiinner to building rockbox, and I have to say, the ui simulator is sweet.
23:57:18 Quit simonrvn ("bbl")

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