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#rockbox log for 2008-05-07

00:00:01linuxstbHmm, seems it doesn't like the first partition being reformatted though - that seems to be the issue.
00:00:10amiconnLlorean: If the firmware partition is also FAT, it could be used with a multivolume build
00:00:30 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:00:57amiconn(although I don't think it's worth the hassle)
00:01:55preglowand the firmware partition has no format, i think
00:02:06preglowso it'll mean extra code
00:02:36Mouser_XThe 'beast's firmware partition is FAT32. At least, it sure looks that way.
00:02:54Mouser_XProperties says it is.
00:03:00Mouser_X(In Windows.)
00:04:26*linuxstb doesn't understand what's upsetting the S's bootloader - just reformatting the firmware partition is enough to upset it and make it enter recovery mode
00:04:52Nico_Plinuxstb: reformatting and sending nk.bin back?
00:05:08linuxstbReformatting and copying nk.bin back
00:06:51preglowprobably has a lousy fat driver, then
00:07:28Nico_Pmaybe it has some kind of way of knowing things have changed
00:07:38linuxstbWell, it's WIndows CE, so I would have expected it to do FAT...
00:08:38amiconnPerhaps there's a special flag somewhere
00:09:19*amiconn wouldn't be surprised, giving microsoft's "don't touch" extensions of their own standard
00:10:12 Join shot0fadds [0] (
00:11:26linuxstbCopying files to the partition seems to work - i.e. replacing the nk.bin (Rockbox bootloader) file
00:14:02preglowamiconn: didn't you find a detailed account of the arm9 pipeline somewhere?
00:17:14toffe82the S is TFAT :
00:17:15 Quit leox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:17:49preglowwhat, not fatx?
00:17:50preglowgo microsoft
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00:27:31Nico_Ptoffe82: maybe that causes some problems for us?
00:28:24 Nick Absnthe is now known as Absnthe|away (
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00:28:48toffe82I don't know
00:29:57Nico_Pif we don't correctly update both FATs we might encounter trouble
00:30:10Nico_P... when going back to the OF
00:31:02n1sMaybe tfat support wouldn't be so bad for usb mode either...
00:31:10 Join shot0fadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds)
00:31:14n1sNico_P: great news about the speed :)
00:31:20*n1s sleeps
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00:31:51amiconnpreglow: I have no idea about the arm pipeline. If you're looking for the instruction cycle counts, has them
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00:44:25 Join ibycus [0] (
00:44:43ibycushi everyone, i can't make my itrip work with rockbox
00:44:53ibycusive turned accessory power on but it won't work at all
00:45:01ibycusany other options i can try?
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00:54:44 Join ^Parrot^ [0] (
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00:55:03 Quit gevaerts ("sleep")
00:55:54^Parrot^ok.. songs are loaded.. now... how can I randomly play them all? I am reading the manual and it talks of playlists. fine... how do I add ALL the songs to the playlist if a playlist is required?
00:56:13^Parrot^I have the manual open but it does not say how to do this
00:56:19^Parrot^Ipod 5th gen. btw
00:57:56Nico_P^Parrot^: either withe the DB (wich might be very slow), or if you have all your music in a dir, insert that dir recursively
00:58:15Nico_Ps/slow/long if you have a lot of music
00:58:24^Parrot^4700+ songs
00:58:32^Parrot^dir by album artist
00:59:04^Parrot^<root>\music\album artist\album\title
00:59:06Nico_Pwithout a parent dir to all that I don't know whether it's possible without the DB
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00:59:30Nico_Pah, then use "insert" on "music", after having enabled the "insert recursively" setting
00:59:43^Parrot^walk slow with this old man...
01:00:03^Parrot^at main menu'
01:00:12^Parrot^settings ?
01:00:14Nico_Psettings > general settings > playlists > recursively...
01:00:38Nico_Pselect "on" or "ask", depending on your preference
01:01:02Nico_Pthen long press select on the music dir to get the contextual menu
01:01:26Nico_Pplaylist > insert
01:01:44^Parrot^get to music dir in files?
01:02:26Nico_Pthe idea is to create a playlist of all your songs
01:02:31 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
01:02:35Nico_Pand shuffle through that
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01:03:13le-bemawiI have an samsung YP-U1, I m view some samsung here ( but, not YP-U1. Can I install rockbox or not ? (sorry for my bad english, i never write in this language ^^)
01:03:28Lloreanle-bemawi: No, you cannot.
01:04:09scorche|shle-bemawi: the front page lists the devices that rockbox runs on
01:04:19^Parrot^hmmm data abort at 00000004
01:04:28le-bemawi:'( Do you know an open firmware for my YP-U1 ?
01:04:43Nico_P^Parrot^: are you using an up to date version ?
01:04:57^Parrot^I think so.. 2-3 days
01:06:07Nico_PI don't know of any specific fixes for that issue
01:06:59^Parrot^v r17139-080416
01:07:23Nico_Pwell that's quite old already. you should probably update
01:08:06*Nico_P just inserted his whole album collection flawlessy
01:08:16 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
01:08:16Nico_P(ipod 5.5G, ~2000 tracks)
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01:08:36*^Parrot^ is not as l33t as Nico_P :p
01:08:53Nico_Pit's really not hard
01:09:12Nico_P^Parrot^: when exactly did it crash? had it started inserting?
01:09:43^Parrot^had to reboot
01:09:48^Parrot^working fine now..
01:09:57^Parrot^restarting playlist procedure
01:10:29^Parrot^inseting tracks
01:11:08^Parrot^to update just copy the .rockbox subdir to <ipod>\.rockbox ?
01:11:29^Parrot^error: couldn'
01:11:34Nico_Pyes, you can just replace the old install
01:11:58^Parrot^error: couldn't load codec . codec failure codecs/mpa.codec
01:12:07^Parrot^will update rockbox
01:12:22Nico_Pyes you need to unzip the whole build
01:12:53^Parrot^overwrite all ?
01:14:04TheNumberHello !!!
01:15:12TheNumberi am interesting to have ogg file in my digital player so does it exist an open frimware for thease kind of player
01:15:13^Parrot^have to make room... gotta remove the jpgs that rockbox can't use
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01:16:49Nico_PTheNumber: rockbox doesn't support this player
01:16:53^Parrot^moving files....
01:17:04^Parrot^growing older as it happens...
01:17:19*Nico_P heads off to bed
01:17:45 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:17:46TheNumbergood night
01:18:24TheNumberme to time to go Good night Chan-san
01:18:26 Part TheNumber ("Konversation terminated!")
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01:20:16^Parrot^ok.. rebooted...
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01:23:50^Parrot^If I want to use the db for title, artist, albu and album artist, do I have to make db playlists 4 times?
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02:50:25RoC_MasterMindI just got another gigabeat f40....what are the folders I have to leave on the drive once rockbox is on it?
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04:21:19JdGordoncan anyone reproduce 8970
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04:37:55Beta2KRoC_MasterMind, leave GBSYSTEM
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05:05:59 Join creamycenter2003 [0] (
05:07:28creamycenter2003i am having trouble booting rockbox on my sansa c240 v.1. If anybody feels like helping, please acknowledge
05:07:49 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:08:30JdGordonhow about just asking your question and if someon knows the answer they'll help?
05:08:45creamycenter2003i get the rockbox bootloader up, but it says it cant find OF.mi4
05:08:55creamycenter2003it is looking in /system/
05:09:35creamycenter2003i have tried placing/renaming the sandisk firmware to OF.mi4
05:09:47JdGordonI thought we stopped using OF,mi4?
05:10:04JdGordonhow did you install the bootloader?
05:10:11creamycenter2003copy pasta
05:10:18creamycenter2003into the root
05:10:26creamycenter2003from recovery mode
05:11:02JdGordonand which instructions told you to do that?
05:11:08creamycenter2003the wiki
05:11:11JdGordon certainly didnt
05:12:01creamycenter2003i had to do it manually because the stock firmware just hangs
05:13:35JdGordondoes recovery mode still work?
05:13:41creamycenter2003i put the /.rockbox/ into the root, straight from the zip, then i put firmware.mi4
05:13:46creamycenter2003thats all that works
05:14:47JdGordonif its the same as the e200 the only thing your supposed to put there is the sansa firmware.mi4 file... no rockbox files
05:16:11 Nick Absnthe is now known as Absnthe|shower (
05:17:11creamycenter2003the wiki said to copy the .rockbox dir into the root, followed by firmware.mi4
05:18:25creamycenter2003Note: If the contents of the .zip file are extracted correctly, you will have a directory called /.rockbox, which contains all the files needed by Rockbox, in the main directory of your player’s drive.
05:19:33JdGordonon which page? and thats for MSC mode anyway.. not recovery
05:20:52creamycenter2003how might i do it in recovery?
05:21:07creamycenter2003because i cant do msc
05:21:38creamycenter2003i presume due to corrupt mp3's loaded in
05:21:54creamycenter2003so the thing just hangs on the sandisk splash
05:22:33creamycenter20032.3.2. Manual Installation
05:23:36JdGordonif you dont mind formatting it copy a file called "sansa.fmt" onto the recovery mode disk and then reboot it, that should format the c200 and if it was corrupt files you should be ok again
05:24:06creamycenter2003yeah, i did that many times
05:25:14JdGordonok, copy onto it in rec mode
05:27:34creamycenter2003it still just hangs at the sandisk splash
05:27:55*JdGordon is out of ideas
05:28:07JdGordonLlorean: any chance you can help him out?
05:28:22 Part Absnthe|shower ("Leaving")
05:29:09creamycenter2003i just dont get why the rockbox installs ok, just gives me an error when looking for OF.bin and OF.mi4
05:29:32creamycenter2003and where is this "/system" directory anyway?
05:29:53LloreanYou shouldn't be installing on a c200 without its original firmware booting normally first
05:29:58LloreanThen you should be installing using sansapatcher.
05:30:22LloreanBut, the file JdGordon linked can be used as OF.mi4. Just create a SYSTEM folder in the root, and put the file in it named OF.mi4, and it MIGHT work.
05:30:33LloreanBut you're better off doing things the proper way as per the manual, which requires recovering your device first.
05:30:45 Quit Horscht ("User was distributing pornography on server; system seized by FBI")
05:31:00creamycenter2003well, it wont recover, thats the problem
05:31:15creamycenter2003i will try making a /system
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05:31:21mrpocketsanyone here?
05:31:52Lloreancreamycenter2003: Does recovery mode say that it detects the firmware?
05:31:53mrpocketswanna sport me some help champ?
05:31:54Mouser_XSame here.
05:32:28Beta2KASk away, you don't need to ask :)
05:32:29Lloreanmrpockets: You don't need to ask to ask. Just ask your question. We can't know if we can help you until we know the question
05:32:36creamycenter2003it says Mini-B- Device mode USB2.0 MSD
05:32:37Mouser_Xmrpockets: You're not helpind yourself any. We can't help you if you don't tell us what to help with.
05:32:46mrpocketsgot it
05:32:55mrpocketsdidn't know if this was a real chan, or just a few goons chill'en.
05:33:05Mouser_XMostly the latter.
05:33:11mrpocketsI'm running Ubuntu here, 7.10. How the hell do i get the Ipod in Disk mode :(
05:33:20Beta2KThere's a ton of ppls here, someone has to be watching :)
05:33:31LloreanMouser_X: No, it's a real channel...
05:33:41Lloreanmrpockets: The channel has posted guidelines you should've read.
05:33:59LloreanAs for disk mode, it has nothing to do with your OS. Depending on your iPod the instructions are different, but they're even posted at the apple site.
05:34:30Lloreancreamycenter2003: When you copy the firmware.mi4 to it, on disconnect it should mention finding it and updating
05:34:48creamycenter2003yeah, it does that
05:35:30LloreanAnd you tried it with the exact file JdGordon linked?
05:35:33creamycenter2003and it even loads rockbox bootloader, but fails to find OF.bin, so it tries OF.mi4
05:35:57LloreanThe file JdGordon linked, after upgrading, it shouldn't load the Rockbox bootloader...
05:36:04creamycenter2003i did, and it removes the rockbox loader
05:36:12LloreanAnd the original firmware freezes?
05:36:18creamycenter2003and leaves me with the frozen orig
05:36:37creamycenter2003even the one from the sandisk forums freezes
05:37:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:37:28creamycenter2003is the bootloader/firmware stored on the same NAND flash chip?
05:37:48creamycenter2003i am wondering if the chip is bad
05:38:32Lloreancreamycenter2003: If sansa.fmt won't work after recovering the firmware, there's certainly something worse wrong than just some corrupt MP3s, since they're long gone.
05:39:02creamycenter2003i thought so....
05:39:37LloreanCreating an OF.mi4 shouldn't work, since it'll just encounter the same problem that's preventing the OF from loading normally
05:39:48creamycenter2003i am just surprised that the new firmware would load and "change" if the flash was bad
05:40:00LloreanThere's also no way to put it on, since you don't have USB access without a working OF.
05:40:32JdGordonnot totally true... e200tool can be used to put a file onto the flash
05:40:45JdGordonbut the program needs to be coded manually
05:40:54creamycenter2003should i boot up ubuntu and try?
06:00:31 Quit carini ("ChatZilla 0.9.81-rdmsoft [XULRunner]")
06:03:23creamycenter2003how do i work diagnostic mode?
06:03:50creamycenter2003i load in to it, and a bunch of text flys by
06:04:32creamycenter2003and lands on "upgrade firmware"erase sd media" erase sd nvp"
06:04:51creamycenter2003what is that last option? and how do i select it
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08:42:02*linuxstb offfers some coffee in an attempt to wake the channel
08:44:46*LinusN smells coffee and wakes up
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08:49:15*markun wakes up
08:49:17*GodEater needs coffee intravenously to wake up
08:49:36*linuxstb prepares the needles
08:50:23JdGordongrab some caffenated soap from thinkgeek :D
08:50:38*GodEater blames his apparent narcolepsy on playing GTA:IV too late into the night :-/
08:51:48GodEateranyone seen this ?
08:52:31 Join davina [0] (
08:54:19*scorche has been hearing about it in a gsoc related channel that has 8 people in it
08:54:43markunGodEater: it's basically what we do already. Looking at diffs on the frontpage and talking about them in here.
08:54:51LinusNlooks like our cvs mailing list serves that purpose well, if not better
08:55:27*GodEater pops the url back into the envelope and mails it back to google with "not needed" written on it
08:55:46linuxstbBut isn't the difference that we generally review code _after_ commit?
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08:56:48LinusNlinuxstb: yes, that is true
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08:58:35LinusNhmmm, maybe i misunderstood
08:58:53LinusNit could be useful for discussing flyspray patches
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09:00:37*linuxstb suggests "someone" should install it for us to play with
09:00:54*scorche has a google app account
09:02:03linuxstbYou need a google app account to use it?
09:04:01scorchei think so as it relies on Googles servers for stuff like BigTable
09:04:10scorchenot sure though
09:04:56scorchethere is this, but i suppose it doesnt quite confirm
09:04:57GodEaterI thought only Mondrian relied on BigTable ?
09:05:09scorcheGodEater: as i said...i am not sure
09:05:36GodEaterwell they're running a demo here :
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09:10:31JdGordonbringing channel back on topic... has the quickscreen frozen for anyone? there is a report on flyspray but i havnt reproduced it (reported on nano)
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09:19:44LinusNi like that rietveld tool
09:20:21LinusNhmmm, i rarely use the quickscreen
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09:23:29yeal`what is a good modular for rockbox
09:23:33yeal`to make it good for ipod
09:23:46yeal`for ipod, i don't think i ahve to load a database each time
09:23:52yeal`how can i fix that for rockbox?
09:23:56JdGordonwhy dont we use the piezo on the ipods for the keyclick?
09:24:04yeal`what is piezo?
09:25:13markunyeal`: what do you mean by "modular"?
09:25:43yeal`i meant add-ons
09:26:38markunwe have some patches to change parts of rockbox, but I'm still not sure what you are asking for.
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09:42:36linuxstbJdGordon: There's been a patch for that for years, but I don't think it was good enough to commit.
09:44:42*JdGordon grabs piezo.c from the patch and gets to work
09:44:44B4gderyeal`: we actually think rockbox is good for ipod already
09:44:47linuxstbyeal`: The only "add-ons" are the plugins/viewers which are included with the standard install - everything that's available for Rockbox (apart from "in-progess" developments) is included in the standard download.
09:45:06JdGordondoes it make sense that keyclick would always use the piezo instead of headphones?
09:45:14JdGordonor both?
09:45:22linuxstbI don't think so, but I wouldn't use that feature anyway.
09:46:31markunthe meizu's also have such a piezo
09:48:02LinusNJdGordon: i think both options are useful. for example, i wouldn't want a beep in my headphones for each wheel movement
09:48:45JdGordonimo thats when you woulod use it
09:49:00JdGordonlack of feedback on the wheel sucks
09:49:54linuxstbIn general or for blind users?
09:50:03JdGordonin general
09:51:01linuxstbThen I disagree
09:52:38markunyou can get visual feedback
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09:57:09*linuxstb notices there is no mention of devcon on the front page news
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10:11:55creamycenter2003ok, my sansa wont boot, i am trying to re flash the bootloader, but it keeps failing upon mounting, saying over and over: "LUN0 locked""LUN0 unlocked"
10:12:33creamycenter2003is there a secret to restoring it from a bad flash, with e200tool
10:12:57JdGordone200tool is for manufacturer mode
10:13:53creamycenter2003thats the only mode it will boot, as it goofed up during a nand format, so it is 100% blank
10:15:02creamycenter2003i sent it pribootloader.rom and it brings up the recovery screen, then as soon as the 16meg drive is mounted, it goes into a fit about LUN0 lock/unlocked
10:15:21 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
10:15:21JdGordonthats normal iirc.. as long as it stays booted
10:15:25JdGordonmounted even
10:15:58creamycenter2003it does, then it says loading image, loading font loading etc....and then it reboots, and nothing
10:16:20creamycenter2003it's like it wont hold the flash it just loaded
10:16:49B4gderwhat did you say about the "nand format" ? what was that and how did you do that?
10:16:57JdGordonyes, before it reboots you need to hold rec (or whatevr it is) to get into the rec mode
10:17:29creamycenter2003in diagnostic mode, it was formatting, when the battery came undone, leaving me with bad situation
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10:17:45B4gderdiagnostic mode?
10:17:58B4gderyou mean the one we call recovery mode?
10:17:58creamycenter2003hold down arrow on bootup
10:18:40*B4gder doesn't remember what buttons that do what
10:18:56creamycenter2003it has the option to format the internal sd
10:19:15B4gderI've never seen any such
10:19:15creamycenter2003which it was doing when the battey dropped
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10:20:10creamycenter2003so now i'm trying to put the bootloader/firmware back on, with e200tool, running under ubuntu
10:21:00creamycenter2003it sends the bootloader over, the device loads it and gives me recovery mode, but wont accept any flash perm
10:21:46B4gderyou tried creating a .fmt file in recovery mode?
10:22:12JdGordonwhat file are you copying in recovery mode?
10:22:27B4gderis this a c200 sansa ?
10:22:57creamycenter2003pribootLoader.rom and firmware.mi4 as well as font. Yes c200 v.1.
10:23:18B4gderthen I believe you are in the c200 sansa nand flash ruined mess hell
10:23:30creamycenter2003yes that
10:23:45*B4gder points to gevaerts
10:23:47gevaertscreamycenter2003: c240 or c250 ? Are you running linux ?
10:23:51*gevaerts hides
10:24:19linuxstbWhat about compiling a Rockbox build with USB mass storage enabled, and uploading the rockbox.bin as pribootLoader.rom ?
10:24:58*creamycenter2003 will try
10:25:00B4gderlinuxstb: the problem with the c200 models is they seem to "trust" a totally messed up partition table and thus can refuse to function
10:25:28creamycenter2003would it make a difference if i used rockbox vs doing it by hand?
10:25:32linuxstbe200rpatcher could probably also be used, modified to upload such a rockbox.bin
10:25:48B4gderyou need a tool that can restore the partition tables
10:26:09B4gderbut I guess usb-storage access would do for that
10:26:26linuxstbcreamycenter2003: Can you compile your own Rockbox builds?
10:26:27creamycenter2003is there a binary available? i'm running the live distro, so it will take forever to compile
10:26:29*B4gder gets things very very slowly
10:27:00*linuxstb hands B4gder a Ristretto
10:27:31*B4gder awakens
10:27:39creamycenter2003how do i gain access to the flash partitions, without having the firmware already on it?
10:28:03B4gdercreamycenter2003: by loading a tool for that onto the target using e200tool
10:29:21gevaertscreamycenter2003: do you have access to a linux machine ?
10:29:43creamycenter2003so load the rockbox bootload in using 200tool, then copy the firmawre into the 16mb drive?
10:29:45*linuxstb compiles a c200 build with USB enabled
10:29:50Mouser_Xgevaerts: I think he's running ubuntu.
10:30:00Mouser_XPossibly off a CD? I'm not sure on that.
10:30:03linuxstbcreamycenter2003: Wait a few minutes, I'm building a tool for you...
10:30:34Mouser_XYes. The people here are usually really nice (and always awesome, in one way or another).
10:30:45*gevaerts waits for linuxstb's tool. If that works it's most probably much cleaner than his own
10:35:16linuxstbcreamycenter2003: Try putting your c200 in manufacturing mode, then run this tool -
10:36:05linuxstbIt does a similar thing to e200tool, but will upload a Rockbox build with USB mass storage enabled. You should then be able to access your c200's flash from your computer and fix the partition table and firmware partition.
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10:39:05gevaertslinuxstb: how did you build it ? Give rockbox.bin ro the e200rpatcher build as bootloader.bin ?
10:39:47gevaertsSo reasonably easy... Much cleaner than my hack
10:40:00*amiconn agrees with JdGordon regarding the wheel feedback
10:40:05creamycenter2003the program said Patching application uploaded successfully!
10:40:24linuxstbAnd what happened on your c200?
10:40:24creamycenter2003how do i procede? not drives are mounted
10:40:39creamycenter2003it stays blue, blank screen
10:40:43linuxstbIf it worked, you should see the Rockbox USB screen - an image of a USB plug...
10:40:46linuxstbOK, then it didn't work.
10:41:08gevaertscreamycenter2003: then download gevaerts/c240erase">
10:41:08linuxstbMaybe the c200 doesn't do enough initialisation for a Rockbox build to work without the bootloader...
10:41:45gevaertscreamycenter2003: same procedure : put it into manufacturer mode and run c240erase (as root).
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10:43:16linuxstbgevaerts: Does your tool attempt to use the LCD?
10:43:28gevaertslinuxstb: yes
10:45:18 Quit grr4536 (Client Quit)
10:45:31gevaertslinuxstb: source is at gevaerts/main-c240wipe.c">, but it needs some manual build environment twiddling to get it to work
10:45:44gevaertsWhich is why I haven't committed yet
10:45:56creamycenter2003i cant get c240erase to even open
10:46:02creamycenter2003it just says bad command
10:46:38gevaertscan you run "md5sum c240erase" and tell me what it says ?
10:47:04gevaertsIs it executable ? If not, run "chmod +x c240erase"
10:47:40gevaerts(for the md5sum, if you can't easily copy/paste, just give the first 4 ot 5 characters)
10:47:59creamycenter2003nevermind i forgot to chmod it
10:48:08creamycenter2003oh ^^
10:48:46gevaertsNormally I would have mentionned the chmod step, but since you already ran linuxstb's e200rpatcher, I assumed you wouldn't forget :)
10:49:07creamycenter2003it's zeroing flash
10:49:14creamycenter2003do i hold record?
10:49:22gevaertsNo. Just leave it alone
10:50:05gevaertsThis will take a while (between 10 and 40 minutes I guess, but I'm not sure). Once it's done there should be something on the screen about pressing any key
10:50:27creamycenter2003then will i run e200patcher
10:50:48linuxstbgevaerts: I put e200rpatcher in a .tgz to avoid that step...
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10:51:08linuxstbcreamycenter2003: No, this is an alternative method to e200rpatcher
10:51:36gevaertsAfter that, you need to put it back into manufacturer mode and do the "normal" e200tool recover procedure (i.e. "e200tool recover pribootloader.rom" and copy pribootloader.rom and firmware.mi4 to the recovery drive)
10:51:57creamycenter2003got it
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10:52:51gevaertsThen the OF should work. I recommend formatting the data partition again _from within the OF_ (i.e. Settings->Format) to be sure
10:53:07linuxstbgevaerts: Do you build your main-c240wipe.c as a bootloader build?
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10:54:51gevaertslinuxstb: let me check. It's been a while since I did the twiddling
10:55:12linuxstbI'm guessing you did, as you use "printf"
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10:56:23gevaertslinuxstb: I actually configure for e200rpatcher, then change the Makefile a bit to have the right TARGET, build, edit bootloader/ (It needs to start at 0x40004000), and relink
10:56:51*gevaerts doesn't remember how he found this. It's two months ago...
10:56:53linuxstbAh, of course... That's why my rockbox.bin failed...
10:57:22gevaertsThe 0x40004000 ?
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10:57:39linuxstbYes, I forgot it gets uploaded to IRAM.
10:57:54linuxstbAnd it's too big as well...
10:58:46linuxstbWe would need to enable interrupts in the PP bootloaders, and add UMS mode...
11:00:03*gevaerts still thinks that sandisk screwed up by not making the sansa.fmt trick work properly on c200
11:02:26gevaertscreamycenter2003: which wiki page did you follow originally (with OF.mi4 in /SYSTEM/ instructions) ?
11:04:01creamycenter2003that was a result, not a direction, i followed the manual install method, where i copy firmware and bootloader to the root. it booted the loader for rockbox, and was searching for those files
11:05:43creamycenter2003i eventually got the OF to load, by random chance, after i formatted the internal memory, from within the diagnostic mode
11:06:09creamycenter2003but sansa.fmt did absoulutely nothing
11:07:07gevaertsI know. sansa.fmt not working is why I wrote this tool.
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11:09:58creamycenter2003so which firmware should i use? the one from the sandisl forums, the ones from the e200tool page, or the ones from the rockbox site?
11:10:50B4gderfirst, avoid the sandisk forum
11:11:01creamycenter2003will do
11:11:04B4gderat least for anything related to rockbox
11:14:52B4gdercreamycenter2003: and if you mean what OF mi4 to use, it really doesn't matter since once you have restored you can upgrade that to whatever you want
11:15:35B4gderfor rockbox, the OF version really is of little importance
11:15:56creamycenter2003i just want this stupid thing to work
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11:22:07gevaertsIs it still counting down ?
11:22:25creamycenter2003gots 43 mb left
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11:37:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:50:59gevaertscreamycenter2003: still going ?
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12:10:38*mrkiko listens to rockbox within the class-room 'cause the prof has gone
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12:29:13*mrkiko freezed rockbox
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12:31:05mrkikowith a compass I got the player to reset
12:32:29mrkikoWhat will actually happen if I activate the rockbox study mode?
12:35:00 Quit knittl (Remote closed the connection)
12:35:07mrkikoOk - understood
12:35:14GodEater"study mode" ?
12:35:51mrkiko:D it exists
12:40:03mrkikoNow I'll disable voice ...
12:40:30mrkikoNow I'll try to have a crash
12:40:42mrkikowith no voice file at all (I don't thrust rockbox enough to disable it by the menu... :D )
12:41:34mrkikoI expect no more crashes
12:41:44mrkikobut I'll wait some days / months
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12:47:42mrkikoBye all! See you!
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13:17:25pondlifeLinusN (or anyone who'd know): My H300 shuts down with an empty battery warning at 3.65V, isn't this a bit too quick?
13:17:51pondlifeWhilst I was getting 12 hour runs last week, it seems to only be lasting a few hours now
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13:18:34pondlifeThis seems a very fast dropoff, so I was hoping it was a Li-Ion self-calibration issue, rather than a dead battery.
13:19:41pondlifeAny tests I should do, or procedures I could try before I buy a replacement battery?
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13:37:05LinusNpondlife: i had the same issue with my x5, a new battery fixed it
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13:49:11pondlifeI was surprised how quickly it died - wondering if this was actually down to a bug (CPU boost or something)... ;)
13:55:38LinusNsame here
14:06:41peturhmmm I recently noticed my battery isn't holding as long as it used to, but the battery isn't that old. I wonder if something is consuming more power :/
14:07:11peturor maybe the battery wasn't that new :(
14:11:28pondlifeI'll perform a run-time test again... maybe battery bench should measure boost (and hard disk) ratio?
14:12:06pondlifeIt reports 4.19V on a full charge too, I'd think a dying Li-ion would give a lower max voltage
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14:42:59amiconnpondlife: Of course it wouldn't.
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14:50:04 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=44a0430f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
14:51:04mcuelenaereJdGordon: do you have a m:robe 500? if so, is the DSP patch working for you (the one from catalin)?
14:51:31JdGordonyes and it did before, but last time i checked it didnt
14:51:50mcuelenaerehmm, I'm not getting the DSP's interrupts at the ARM cpu
14:52:04mcuelenaere(on a ZVM)
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14:54:25JdGordonI dunno... you need to talk to cat about it all, I know nothing :p
14:54:37mcuelenaerek :)
14:55:16JdGordonhe's not online atm though :(
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14:55:28JdGordondo you have his email? he is usually on gtalk
14:55:55mcuelenaereyes I do, but he isn't online either at gtalk
14:56:32mcuelenaerehave you tried the latest patch I posted on flyspray about the DSP and the ZVM?
14:56:34TheNumberSalut !!!
14:56:52JdGordonI did but it didnt compile, unless there is a newer version?
14:57:10mcuelenaereJdGordon: I don't know, which one did you use?
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14:57:24mcuelenaerethe one you said it didn't work?
14:58:34JdGordonah no, havnt tried the newest one..
14:58:36JdGordonone min
14:58:42mcuelenaereok, thanks
14:58:46hopenglishiPod 5.5 Gen Video 30Gig - Is it possible to completely erase the original iPod firmware once RockBox is installed?
14:59:21hopenglishI would like RockBox to be the only accessible OS on the device.
14:59:25LambdaCalculus37No, you still need the iPod firmware for file transfers.
14:59:34LambdaCalculus37Rockbox doesn't have a full USB stack yet.
14:59:51hopenglishThanks. Can I cripple the iPod firmware then?:)
15:00:06hopenglishWithout hindering the RockBox OS...
15:00:33 Quit ali_as_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:02:56LambdaCalculus37Once Rockbox has a fully working USB stack available, and all the missing functionality that the iPod firmware has but we don't is in Rockbox, then you'll never have to look at the iPod firmware again.
15:03:09LambdaCalculus37But until then, you still need it.
15:03:33JdGordonmcuelenaere: any chance you can build me a mr500 boot image built with your patch?
15:03:44mcuelenaereJdGordon: yes, just a sec
15:03:52mcuelenaeredoesn't the patch apply?
15:04:20JdGordonit does, but i've got the old added files and not sure which have been applied twice
15:04:40mcuelenaereah ok
15:04:45JdGordonunless there is a way to remove all non version controlled files?
15:05:08hopenglishLambda: Thanks.
15:05:35JdGordonmcuelenaere: arg, the bootloader in that patch wont work
15:05:44JdGordonlemme just redownload the source... 1 min
15:05:55mcuelenaereJdGordon: there's a thread in the forums about that, I'll look it up..
15:08:53mcuelenaereJdGordon: do I need to do "make zip" or will a rockbox.* suffice?
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15:09:08JdGordonjust rockbox.*
15:09:38JdGordonits failing to compile here...
15:09:43JdGordonI tihnk your patch misses a file
15:09:45mcuelenaerewhat error?
15:09:48mcuelenaerehmm could be
15:10:05mcuelenaereI'll do a "svn status" after compiling
15:10:15JdGordonCL500 is missing math.h and stdio.h
15:10:21JdGordonand then the same errors in the thread
15:10:41mcuelenaeremath.h and stdio.h are included in the TI installation
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15:11:32mcuelenaereJdGordon: I see I forgot to undefine LOGF
15:12:06JdGordonmaybe thats the problem
15:12:29JdGordonmy $PATH should be ok..
15:12:46mcuelenaereand $C_DIR ?
15:13:22JdGordonI have no $C_DIR
15:13:33JdGordonthe ti stuff is in the path
15:14:33mcuelenaereI didn't got the patch to compile completely without setting C_DIR to "/opt/TI/cg54xx
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15:15:51JdGordonmcuelenaere: does the main() from that build call dsp_wakeup()?
15:16:05mcuelenaereeh, it could be it doesn't
15:16:17mcuelenaeregood point, will change that :)
15:16:57JdGordoncrap, also the usb detection needs to be #if 0'ed
15:17:41mcuelenaereah BTW, shouldn't it be a bootloader build? cause I compiled a "normal" one
15:18:15JdGordoneither one should work, as long as dsp_wakeup() is called
15:18:30JdGordondo a bl one..
15:20:06mcuelenaereIt's compiling
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15:22:16mcuelenaereah I didn't disable the USB stuff
15:22:31JdGordonno, in the bootloader its ok
15:23:00mcuelenaereit won't work, the dsp is inited before the ATA is inited
15:24:11JdGordondoh, too slow
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15:24:47JdGordoni might have to wait for the battery to go flat :(
15:25:06mcuelenaerehow come?
15:25:19mcuelenaereBTW, don't download my latest link, I just see I got the DSP code all messed up
15:25:26*LambdaCalculus37 works some more on the Gigabeat S manual
15:25:30JdGordonits frozen and there is no proper hardware reset
15:25:57mcuelenaerecan't you pull the battery out?
15:26:12JdGordonI havnt managed to get the screws out yet so no
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15:26:53mcuelenaereah crap, I'm sorry to mess up your player :(
15:27:59JdGordondont worry... its not being used atm anyway
15:30:05hopenglishiPod Video 5.5 Gen - Should plugging a cable into the video out force RockBox to automatically feed the video signal to the source of the cable? Or does a setting need to be configured to enable this?
15:30:35JdGordonrockbox doesnt have video out
15:31:19hopenglishUh oh.
15:31:55LambdaCalculus37We don't even use the Broadcom video chip in the iPod video.
15:33:13hopenglishThat's no good... That's essential to what I am trying to do...
15:33:33hopenglishEssentially feeding the signal from an iPod to 3d glasses..
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15:38:48LambdaCalculus37Well, tell Broadcom to release their datasheets for the video chip, or help us out by figuring out how the chip works.
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15:41:12hopenglishIs this the BCM2722 chip?
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15:44:49JdGordon_n1s: hey, you pinged me last night?
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15:45:56n1syeah, found a small bug in the Rockbox Info screen and I don't know how to fix it without braking the list FS #8969
15:46:17n1sbraking the scrolling lines in the list that is
15:47:55JdGordon_ah yes, thats right (I rmemeber reading the log but didnt remember the ping reason :p )
15:48:05n1spetur: :P
15:48:05JdGordon_yeah, not really sure what to do there...
15:48:25JdGordon_other than removing the seconds and forcing an update every 30s or so?
15:48:34hopenglishLambda: This is new territory... Both RockBox and the development/programming thereof... What's currently keeping RockBox from integrating the video-chip technology into a build? By RockBox, I mean you all.. or us.. or whatever.
15:49:10n1sJdGordon_: that would at least look nicer i guess
15:49:26peturJdGordon, n1s: how about removing the clock completely?
15:49:51n1spetur: afaik it's there for the blind users who can't see the status bar
15:50:08n1sso as long as time is voiced i'm fine with that
15:50:18n1smight be a bit inconsistent though
15:50:18LambdaCalculus37hopenglish: Simple... no one has really looked into it, and because of a lack of public datasheets, it's going to take some serious reverse engineering to see how the chip works.
15:50:25JdGordon_no, the clock should stay
15:50:40JdGordon_unless the time voicing is moved to the quickscreen (which sdoyan has a patch for
15:50:41LambdaCalculus37But then again, reverse engineering is something we tend to do a lot of. :)
15:50:58*petur thinks a clock on an info screen is optional
15:55:17hopenglishLambda: Thanks. I'll do what I can... Is Broadcom worried that the data sheets be used to develop another chip?
15:55:50amiconnJdGordon: The proper solution would be to extend lcd_puts_scroll() so that it allows to specify whether to reset the scroll position or not
15:56:13amiconnAn easier solution might be to check whether the new text is equal to the old, and not reset scroll position if so
15:56:34LambdaCalculus37hopenglish: It's what they call a "trade secret".
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15:57:35JdGordonamiconn: the 2nd should definatly be possible
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16:15:00LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: Ping!
16:19:44jhMikeSLambdaCalculus37: gniP
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16:21:57LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: For the manual... does the beast have RoLo implemented yet? And how can you clear settings on startup?
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16:22:29jhMikeS1) It does have RoLo but it's dodgey 2) I never tried :)
16:22:36hopenglishLambda: Ever heard of TuneView?
16:22:53LambdaCalculus37hopenglish: No, never have.
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16:23:22LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: I'll mark RoLo as not working on the beast in the manual, then.
16:23:42LambdaCalculus37But I need to figure out how to clear settings on startup so I can add that to the manual if possible.
16:23:59JdGordonopen up main.c... should be there
16:24:08JdGordonassuming its even setup
16:24:27LambdaCalculus37JdGordon: Thanks; I'll take a quick peek.
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16:24:39hopenglishLambda: Sorry... Collecting my thoughts...
16:25:06JdGordonLambdaCalculus37: looks like A
16:25:25JdGordonunless (CONFIG_KEYPAD == GIGABEAT_PAD) is false
16:25:43JdGordonptherwise its BUTTON_REC or none
16:26:04jhMikeSthere's no button A on the S
16:26:08n1sI don't think it's enabled for the beast
16:26:23jhMikeSwhat should it be?
16:27:09JdGordondoes it have a record button?
16:27:22JdGordonany odd buttons?
16:27:32n1swindows button ;)
16:27:37JdGordonthattll do
16:27:50*jhMikeS was gonna say but then the back button sort of implies "back"
16:27:51LambdaCalculus37That would be the Menu button then.
16:28:04*LambdaCalculus37 makes a note of that
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16:28:43n1scan't we just use the hold switch like the ipods?
16:28:56JdGordonplease dont
16:29:05jhMikeSthen it conflicts with dual boot
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16:30:00n1sjhMikeS: but that is checked before the bootloader so it would be really difficult to do it by accident...
16:30:23n1sbut maybe it's not such a good idea when we have plenty of buttons
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16:30:33*LambdaCalculus37 goes for coffee
16:30:34jhMikeSthen you have to worry about when you do it then
16:31:28*n1s thinks the SETTINGS_RESET define should go into the keymaps for clarity
16:31:29*jhMikeS votes for MENU, BACK would coflict with UI too much
16:31:48n1sjhMikeS: that's fine with me
16:32:39linuxstbn1s: The ipods are special cases because (as far as I could tell), buttons pressed before the button driver was initialised weren't being registered. Hence the only choice was the hold switch.
16:32:58n1slinuxstb: aha
16:33:51linuxstbBut that was in the early days of the port, maybe it's worth testing/investigating again on ipods.
16:34:54*petur votes for moving it to the hold switch on all targets
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16:36:07linuxstbpetur: The hold switch just makes it too easy to reset the setting accidentally...
16:36:55peturthe switch must be off to power on, and then switched on before RB loads
16:37:13linuxstbThat depends on the bootloader, not all do that I think.
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16:37:27linuxstbAlthough maybe that's just another ipod quirk...
16:37:59linuxstbAlso, what happens on the various targets if hold is on, but you have also attached usb or the charger?
16:38:11peturno player should boot with the switch on, else what's the use of it?
16:38:25peturah, that's a valid point
16:38:36*linuxstb knew he would find one eventually
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16:39:10*petur gives up and goes mind his payed work
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16:43:14amiconnlinuxstb: This ipod button problem only applies to those which use the opto controller.
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16:45:04linuxstbamiconn: Good point, although maybe it would be confusing to just "fix" it on those targets...
16:45:08LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: When I can get a quick chance to (outside of paid work), I'll pastebin some of the work I've done so far on the manual.
16:45:59LambdaCalculus37Mind you, it's still rough around the edges; I've been basically basing some of the work on the Gigabeat F manual.
16:46:50*LambdaCalculus37 wonders if he just spoke in a redundancy right now... "basically basing"? :P
16:47:57jhMikeSLambdaCalculus37: ok. (and no, basically basing converyed more or less to be based-upon :))
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16:54:08advcomp2019hello kost-
16:55:53kost-advcomp2019, I am having a problem with iPodwizard. I am installing rockbox in the meantime but I might need help with both of them. In short I get te -1 error on ipw.. Sry for asking here but I am more like desperate.
16:56:11Lloreankost-: iPodWizard isn't provided or created by Rockbox.
16:56:15LambdaCalculus37 kost-: We don't support iPodwizard.
16:56:33LambdaCalculus37You have to ask whoever works on it for help.
16:56:47advcomp2019kost-, i do not have an ipod myself plus like they say
16:56:59kost-Oh T_T
16:59:06kost-Ok then I would like some help for rockbox installing
16:59:31LambdaCalculus37What device?
16:59:37kost-Why when I run the ipodpatcher.exe it says that it can't recognize my iPod?
16:59:44kost-iPod 80GB 5.5Gen
17:00:03LambdaCalculus37Metal front or glossy plastic front?
17:00:48LambdaCalculus37That's an iPod Classic. Rockbox doesn't work on them.
17:01:11LambdaCalculus37And it's a 6th generation iPod, not a 5.5 gen.
17:01:31kost-Oh really?
17:02:17LambdaCalculus37Yes, really. Look at this page from Apple:
17:03:40kost-So 6th gen are NOT hackable/
17:04:21n1sat least they have not been hacked
17:06:31thegeek_everything is hackable
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17:07:19kost-Lol, because I cant even install hacked firmware to use downloaded games. I guess that 6th is NOT hackable ^^
17:07:49kost-LambdaCalculus37, the page you send it says that I have an iPod Classic. Nothing about 6th generation.
17:07:51GodEaterno, that means it's not been hacked. Not that it's not hackable.
17:09:09kost-So I guess it might be hacked in the future right?
17:09:21GodEaterif someone does the work yes
17:09:25thegeek_if someone invests the time/effort
17:09:50Lloreankost-: The "iPod Classic" is the 6th generatino.
17:10:00kost-kk guys
17:10:17GodEateralthough I would guess that's merely our name for it, I don't believe apple have ever referred to it as such.
17:10:32kost-really thanks for helping me out. I have been spending time on this one for ~2 days without a solution so thanks..
17:11:04LloreanGodEater: Well, us and almost everyone else who's not Apple.
17:11:35GodEatertrue - but if we're going to refer people to an apple support page to show what model they have, it's not really surprising if they come back confused.
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17:12:27LloreanWell the front page of the site does explicitly say "Not the[...] Classic"
17:12:59LloreanBut yeah.
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17:13:20*GodEater blames apple entirely
17:17:01*GodEater notes that indicated apple page only identifies ONE ipod as a "generation" (only including 'true' ipod and not nano / shuffles)
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17:23:11amiconnWe could (should?) reduce the plugin buffer on swcodec btw. The only plugin needing more than 256KB is doom, and since doom has to stop playback anyway, it could use the overlay technique
17:24:00PortableDudeis there a way not tostop playback when u start doom?
17:24:12LloreanPortableDude: No.
17:24:50Lloreanamiconn: There's a problem with reducing it for Rockboy.
17:25:12Lloreanamiconn: On certain targets (Gigabeat, maybe others?) depending on ROM size, audio can be left on in place of the ROM's sound.
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17:25:23LloreanThe larger you reserved buffer, the larger sized ROM you can use with this.
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17:42:15hopenglishLambdaCalculus37 Hey
17:42:39LambdaCalculus37hopenglish: Received.
17:45:06hopenglishLambdaCalculus37: I'm still working on finding information on the Broadcom chip that does not require information directly from the company.
17:45:46LambdaCalculus37hopenglish: Good luck. :)
17:46:00LambdaCalculus37If you do find some good information, can you post it to the wiki?
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17:46:57hopenglishI will... With my lack of knowledge of what information is needed to harness the chip, I'm unsure of what's important.
17:47:11hopenglishFor example, TuneView which I mentioned before has a device that allows for video-out through one of its' docks.
17:47:33hopenglishThis requires an authenticated co-processor of some kind.
17:47:57LambdaCalculus37That would fall under this category:
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17:49:45hopenglishBut those all have to do with audio-out... I believe the difference is that TuneView supports video-out function as well.
17:50:11scorche|shdoes that manke it not an accessory? ;)
17:51:50hopenglishHehe. No, it doesn't... But the point I'm trying to make is that whatever allows the TuneView to support the video-out function could benefit someone who is attempting to use the same function through RockBox.
17:53:29LambdaCalculus37hopenglish: The TuneView uses the iPod dock connector, and we don't make use of it yet.
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17:56:18scorche|shwell, we make use of the "dock connector"...he means the AAP (apple accessory protocol) ;)
17:57:13hopenglishAt first, I thought TuneView managed to do it with out the AAP, but now as I read more, Big Apple was definitely involved.
17:57:38scorche|shi am not familiar with the TuneView, but there is a video out on the headphone port as well
17:57:54hopenglishSo where do I get me one of these AAP authentication coprocessors?...
17:58:15scorche|shi have no idea what you are asking...
17:58:41hopenglishlol. "When Apple(R) released its current generation of iPods - including the iPod nano, iPod classic, and iPod touch - only docks and peripherals with an Apple authentication coprocessor were able to support video out functions in these new iPods. Keyspan's TuneView dock is one of the few "Made for iPod" licensed docks that contains the necessary authentication coprocessor."
17:59:08hopenglishLocal dollar store?
17:59:19LambdaCalculus37Where did you get that info from?
18:00:13LambdaCalculus37Forget all that.
18:00:24LambdaCalculus37Concentrate on the iPod itself. That's what your target is.
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18:02:06hopenglishAll right.
18:03:56hopenglishLambda: The Product Brief from the Broadcom website is NOT helpful, correct? There seems to be a lot of information in that .pdf ...
18:04:10*Hillshum can't read the links @ with firefox
18:05:53LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: Some initial Gigabeat S manual work:
18:05:54 Part LinusN
18:05:56hopenglishGoogle: Broadcom BCM2722
18:06:11hopenglishFirst site is link I provided.
18:07:27LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: I still have to fix a lot on that page.
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18:37:05amiconnhopenglish: The product brief doesn't tell anything useful
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18:41:19hopenglishamiconn: This is new to me so I'm trying to understand what WOULD be useful.
18:42:02amiconnA real manual would be needed. That won't be just a few pages pdf, more like a few hundred pages
18:44:53hopenglishI understand the spec sheet is under an NDA, by-request basis from Broadcom. Some Rockbox devs did attempt to request the specs but if they got it they would not be able to use the information to implement GPL'ed code.
18:45:00hopenglishI'm sorry..
18:45:16hopenglishThat last message was a quote from an e-mail I received from an Ubuntu admin.
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18:59:24n1sI wonder if we should use the ram in the pmic as nvram on the beast... does it save anything else than resume point?
19:00:00n1sI think it will be cleared if the battery switch is off for a longer time.
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19:11:11*n1s facepalms
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19:33:07webguest89im a rock box newbe is there a plug in or games archive for rockbox (i didn't found one) UND IST HIER JEMAND DER DEUTSCH SPRICHT?? wäre sehr hilfreich
19:33:33Hillshumenglish is fine
19:33:45LambdaCalculus37All Rockbox plugins are included with the builds.
19:33:50webguest89yes but im a german people
19:34:08*Hillshum isn't german
19:34:09webguest89there are no additional plugins??
19:34:18LambdaCalculus37Unless you write your own.
19:34:33webguest89why that that would by really cool
19:34:56linuxstbamiconn: Isn't a large plugin buffer also useful for the jpeg viewer?
19:34:59Hillshumuse C
19:35:27Hillshumto webguest89
19:35:42webguest89what is C
19:35:45hopenglishWebguest, I can speak german... How is your understanding of english though?
19:36:18webguest89yes i can speak a bit english
19:36:32HillshumC is used by Rockbox
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19:37:50Lloreanlinuxstb: In the very same way as for Rockboy, I think.
19:38:44Lloreanwebguest89: Plugins have to be made for specific players, and have to match the version of Rockbox on the player. We try to include additional plugins once they work well, so most people work on getting their plugins included rather than posting them on sites where they have to constantly re-make them.
19:38:55webguest89i love all the rockbox plugins but i have a problem with the jpg viewer all time it shows me just a cut out of my picture wich i can turn around with my scrollwhell but i want to see the whol picture at once just like on the original sansa e250 firmware
19:39:32hopenglishYour English is fine, webguest. Definitely better than my german.
19:40:08hopenglishIf you have any questions understanding something or communicating something, let me know... I can probably be of help then.
19:40:17webguest89cool and this that im just in 8th grade gymnasium( i hope you know what a gymnasium is)
19:40:29Neovanglist(high school)
19:40:38webguest89yes something like that
19:41:13webguest89and whats about my jpeg question bevor
19:41:33Lloreanwebguest89: The sansa media program converts the images before copying over. You can do that too.
19:41:56hopenglishWell, I do know Germany does a better job of teaching English to its' students than we teach German to ours...
19:42:32Lloreanhopenglish: And that has nothing to do with Rockbox. Please, follow the channel guidelines.
19:42:36domonokywebguest89: the jpeg viewer has a zoom function, but it can only zoom some steps like 2x 4x 8x .. if your jpeg file has another aspect ratio then your players display, it will be cutoff.. :-)
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19:42:48Neovanglistin germany most young people, especially geeks, have some capacity for functional english
19:42:51Neovanglistmany have quite good english
19:43:02webguest89yes but then they are just bitmaps then and then they are so difficult to open (with rockpaint)
19:43:05Neovanglistbut I find that older folks, especially ones that do not use it during their jobs, tend to not have decent english
19:43:06Neovanglistor none
19:43:18LloreanNeovanglist: Please, keep topic of discussion to Rockbox.
19:43:32Lloreanwebguest89: You can convert them to different size .jpg files
19:43:38Neovanglistwow, topic enforcement on irc, okay :)
19:43:52webguest89@neovanglist im a nerd but not a geek
19:44:05LloreanNeovanglist: this channel is logged, people read through the logs to catch up and we don't want them cluttered.
19:44:10Lloreanwebguest89: I'm serious about staying on topic.
19:44:11HillshumNeovanglist: go to #rockbox-communtity
19:44:15domonokyNeovanglist: this is a logged support and dev channel, we like the logs clean.. :-)
19:44:55webguest89ok then thanks for help i downloaded a converter yet now i must go bye
19:45:00Neovanglistfair enough :)
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19:49:52amiconnlinuxstb: The jpeg viewer can load jpegs into the plugin buffer if there's enough room, leaving the music playing. I don't think it's essential though
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19:50:50linuxstbI don't use the jpeg viewer, so don't have a view....
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19:51:13amiconnIt all depends on what is deemed better memory usage: (1) permanently setting aside a larger amount of ram for the benefit of *eventually* not needing to stop playback for a plugin in a few cases
19:51:30amiconn(jpeg viewer with small images, or rockboy with small roms)
19:52:01Lloreanamiconn: Right now it's most ROMs except very large ones, but it's tight. Even a small shrink would probably break this.
19:52:04mark_iiim a linux newb, can anyone help me using arm-elf-gcc? Please PM me
19:52:12amiconn(2) having a larger main buffer, at the cost of having to stop playback in a few more cases
19:52:33BigBambimark_ii: If you have a rockbox related question just ask it
19:52:44amiconnLlorean: There is a vast range of gameboy rom sizes. I've seen every power of 2 from 16KB to 4MB
19:53:23amiconnIf you ask me, I'd rather go for (2) than for (1). Rockbox is for music, so the main buffer should have priority
19:53:33n1sIt would be great if we could resize the plugin buffer on the fly :) or even without restarting playback
19:54:22mark_iiits about the e200tool...
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19:55:15mark_iii want to use it on a sansa view but it is designed for arm7 while view uses arm922
19:55:47mark_iican i generate a new e200_code.c so i can use it on a view?
19:56:30Lloreanamiconn: It's not a question of which has priority. It's pretty obvious which does. It's a question of "how much priority"
19:56:39n1smark_ii: I don't think anyone has tried it but the view uses a different SoC...
19:57:01linuxstbmark_ii: e200tool communicates with an e200 in recovery mode - it's very specific to the v1 e200s (and c200s).
19:57:13linuxstbIs the View using the standard "v2" AMS chip?
19:57:30n1slinuxstb: i think it uses the pp/nvidia chip
19:57:52linuxstbAh yes, I remember the discussion now...
19:58:47linuxstbmark_ii: The first thing you will need to find out is whether the view has a similar manufacturing mode to the e200s. In this mode, the LCD of the e200 doesn't turn on, but it appears connected to the computer via USB, with different USB IDs to normal.
19:59:38shotofaddsOk, I'll bite. I never understood why the size of the audio buffer is so critical. What tangible benefit is there? I'm thinking high-memory targets here (>16Mb)
19:59:41mark_iithe id is the same as e200... 0781:0720
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20:00:30Bagdermark_ii: e200tool doesn't make anything arm7 specific
20:00:43Bagderit works for just about any arm version
20:00:51Bagderbut you may need view-specific stuff
20:00:55domonokyshotofadds: the more audio buffer you have, the more battery life you get.. especially on harddisk based players
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20:01:31MauSI've put a RockBox on my Cowon iAudio M3. I already love it, but i can't find a manual for the M3 version of RockBox. :(
20:01:31Lloreanshotofadds: The disk spinup is costly, so the less often you actually need to spin it up, the better battery life you're expected to get.
20:03:09BagderMauS: there's still some details left to get that to build, afaiu
20:03:23BagderMauS: the m5 version should be pretty close
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20:03:33shotofaddssure, but how much of a benefit? has anyone done any tests?
20:03:39MauSBagder, i've installed it via the Tool. But i dunno how to use it.
20:03:54Lloreanshotofadds: Are you asking "how much per megabyte" or what?
20:04:08BigBambiYes, the M3 manual doesn't build
20:04:15MauSIt seems that my M3 is the only player model that runs RockBox and has no display on the unit (only small lcd on the remote)
20:04:20BigBambiMauS: By it, do you mean rockbox itself?
20:04:36BigBambiMauS: Yes, but rockbox treats the remote as the main displey
20:04:58MauSBigBambi, i've installed both loader and the main stuff.
20:05:05BigBambigood :)
20:05:17BigBambiMauS: Rockbox, bar hardware differences, is the same across platforms
20:05:19MauSThe first impression: menu navigation is reverse!
20:05:45BigBambiSo given you have managed to install it for most things you can (until the M3 manual is finished) use another manual
20:05:51shotofaddsLlorean: not specifically, no. Is the difference in battery life really that significant? (where significant has some value over about 5%)
20:06:06BigBambiMauS: Such as for the m5, as Bagder said
20:06:20MauSOkay, i'm already browsing it.
20:07:29MauSI'm so happy i've got a RockBox on my M3 ^_^ I've been visiting the RockBox site once about half a year for some time, but the phrase 'nobody has started an M3 branch' finally got me down and i dumped it.
20:07:46Lloreanshotofadds: It depends entirely on how much smaller you're talking.
20:07:54MauSI dunno why i visited it now, but after i did, i've got RockBox running in 15 minutes :D
20:08:37MauSI hope RockBox has a 'play this file next' feature, 'cause this is what i was lacking most on the original fw
20:08:48Lloreanshotofadds: For example, 1MB out of a 16MB buffer makes a much larger difference than out of a 64MB buffer. The Archoses show a marked battery life improvement by running Rockbox from ROM freeing up more RAM for audio buffer, but they have a very small amount of RAM.
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20:09:22Lloreanshotofadds: Meanwhile, 256 KB out of the standard 16 and 32 MB we see in modern targets won't matter as much, but it will still make a difference, especially considering the constant increases in size the main binary goes through.
20:10:06shotofaddsOf course. I understand the logic, but wanted to quantify it in my head somehow (hence asking if any tests had been done). I appreciate it's not an easy question to answer :)
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20:11:10Lloreanshotofadds: Even a tiny amount more power can mean 30 minutes of extra playtime.
20:11:23LloreanBecause the spinup is the hard part, once you've got the disk spun up, odds are good there's enough power to fill the buffer.
20:11:33LloreanAnd a full buffer of 128kbps MP3 is ~30 minutes.
20:11:38amiconnMauS: It does. Rockbox is playlist based, and you have several ways to create and manipulate playlists.
20:11:39LloreanWell, depending on target, I suppose
20:11:58MauSamiconn, so happy to hear that. ^_^
20:12:04BigBambiMauS: check out the playlist section of the manual
20:12:17BigBambispecifically insert next and/or queue next
20:12:37amiconnLlorean, shotofadds: There were measurements done on archos, albeit testing with a more significant different: comparing a stock archos (2MB RAM) with an 8MB modded one
20:14:27MauSCan i change the direction of + and - keys when navigating through menus? I guess + - keys are programmed like in M5, but in M3 they are located like -+ (minus is left) and in original firmware - goes back (up), + goes forward (down). But RockBox behaves like in M5: + goes up, - goes down. :(
20:14:42amiconnThe 8MB mod increased runtime by 22%
20:15:03amiconnSee firmware/powermgmt.c line 589
20:16:04Lloreanamiconn: What's the buffer size on Archoses?
20:16:08LloreanEr, plugin buffer
20:16:16*n1s thinks the forward==down thing is weird
20:16:19shotofaddsQuite a significant gain, then. Presumably that gain is fairly linear with buffer size?
20:16:36domonokyMauS: you can change the keymap, but only by changing the code, and recompiling it.. :-)
20:16:53shotofaddsWhereas a high-memory flash target has much less advantage in a large audio buffer?
20:16:58Lloreanamiconn: In that case, assuming an average RAM size of 32MB, aren't we using the exact same percentage on swcodec?
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20:17:06MauSI guess it should be changed by default. From my point of view, it's a bug.
20:17:07n1sshotofadds: it most likely is not linear
20:17:20amiconnLlorean: Yes and no. We also have 16MB targets
20:17:36Lloreanamiconn: I said "assuming an average RAM size". We also have two 64MB targets now too
20:17:46Lloreanshotofadds: On flash targets it is almost irrelevant.
20:17:49BigBambiMauS: It isn't a bug in the slightest, as it is intended. Whether it is the right decision is another question
20:18:04Lloreanshotofadds: As I mentioned, one of the significant factors is disk spinups, something flash targets don't do.
20:18:19amiconnYes, but the 16MB targets are suffering more from a larger plugin buffer (and hence smaller audio buffer) than targets with more memory
20:18:52amiconnThere are other advantages of a large audio buffer though, which are related to plugins and apply to all targets
20:18:55n1samiconn: could we go with different plugin buffer sizes for different targets?
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20:19:05Lloreanamiconn: What is the other advantage, then?
20:19:41amiconnPlugins using the audio buffer can buffer more data if it's larger
20:19:58amiconnThat is, if they need a contiguous buffer
20:20:08n1slike mpegplayer
20:20:13amiconnIf they can split the data somehow, it's irrelevant
20:20:53amiconnOr like the jpeg viewer. Afaik it can't combine both buffers (not sure though)
20:21:26amiconnmpegplayer profits from a larger audio buffer the same way as audio playback does (as it is in fact yet another playback engine)
20:22:15amiconnBut the jpeg viewer profits in a different way: it can load larger files (or show high-res files in higher zoom levels) if the buffer is larger
20:22:40MauSOMG, RockBox won't show cyrillic (russian) characters! :((
20:22:46MauSIs there a way to fix this?
20:22:59LloreanMauS: Pick a font that has the characterset.
20:23:00BigBambiMauS: yes it will
20:23:01amiconnMauS: It does. Just select an appropriate font
20:23:11BigBambiMauS: You need to use a font with the characters you want
20:23:16*BigBambi is far too slow
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20:23:42LambdaCalculus37MauS: Did you get the font pack already?
20:23:50Lloreanamiconn: Would it conceivably be possible for plugins to "buffer" some of their data on the playback buffer? I seem to recall that some audio formats would need data that wouldn't be removed normally anyway (like midi)
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20:24:08amiconnThe jpeg viewer needs several buffer chunks: (1) the greylib buffer (on greyscale targets only). (2) The file (loaded into memory as-is) (3) Up to 4 buffers for the decoded image (1/8, 1/4, 1/2 and full zoom)
20:24:21MauSI did, but the Tool failed to install it automatically, so i manually installed only the main stuff.
20:24:42Ebertso im just not controlling it right when it doesn't go to next jpeg
20:24:50BigBambiMauS: You can get the fonts from the extras page
20:24:58amiconnThe buffers for (3) can flush each other, i.e. if full zoom fits but then there's not enough room for the lower zoom levels, those lower levels will be flushed
20:25:03MauSI know, i've downloaded it already
20:25:08amiconn(and need to be re-decoded when zooming out)
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20:25:50Ebertanyone notice the jpeg viewer wont switch to next pic if it can't size to the player's window?
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20:26:55amiconnLlorean: There is no easy way to steal a part of the audio buffer when playback is running. It would need rather complex code to add this
20:28:06amiconn(which would involve moving around buffered data in memory, making sure playback won't touch parts currently moved etc
20:28:37n1samiconn: would it be very complex if we could stop playback, and steal part of it and restart playback without a reboot?
20:28:39amiconnGiven the current state of playback, I think we're far away from adding this, if we don't want it crashing more often than working
20:28:51MauSOmg, is it a bug or an animation? There are waves on the now playing screen
20:29:12n1sMauS: please use full English words
20:29:24MauSOh, and the screen goes blank :(
20:29:41BigBambiMauS: you need to describe EXACTLY what you are doing and EXACTLY what happens
20:29:48BigBambiWe can't see your screen
20:30:57amiconnMauS: There is currently a bug (which has to do with LCD update speed) which I can't fix easily because my M3 and X5 don't show it with either remote
20:31:24amiconnI need to prepare a set of test builds, which will take some time
20:31:30MauSOkay. I set it playing a song. Just select a song with -+ and press >> for it to start playing. The screen changes to Now Playing. The screen ripples and might go blank.
20:31:48MauSamiconn, can i be helpful?
20:32:17BigBambiMauS: Sounds like the bug amiconn described
20:32:45gevaertsThe rippling seems to me to support the speed hypothesis
20:32:53*amiconn only ever got the ripple, never the complete blanking, even with the driver being significantly faster than what's in SVN
20:33:03MauSIs it possible to kill my player with an unlucky flashing attempt?
20:33:32amiconnThe iaudios are practically unbrickable
20:33:44MauSGreat ^_^
20:34:09MauSamiconn, seems that i'm unable to use my player with RockBox because of the blank screen bug. :(
20:34:09amiconn(the SVN driver achieves 169fps when boosted, and my test driver (where I got the ripple) achieved >190fps)
20:34:28LambdaCalculus37MauS: The only way to kill any DAP is with a hammer and lots of vigor. :)
20:34:42MauSWhat is a ripple itself?
20:34:51MauSLack of screen refresh speed?
20:35:09amiconnThe lcd controller misses a few bits so the following bits are shifted
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20:36:12amiconnYou could watch flyspray task 8840. I'll comment there when I have the test builds ready
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20:36:30MauSIt doesn't ripple while not playing.
20:37:50MauSThe screen goes blank in several seconds after it starts playing. :(
20:37:55amiconnYes, because then the CPU is running slower (in order to save battery power)
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20:38:06amiconnThis also makes the lcd driver run slower
20:38:47amiconnGreat to hear that someone else actually uses the M3 rockbox port... I'll see what I can do regarding those tests
20:38:48MauSSo the problem is not lack of speed but too much speed? O_o
20:39:06MauSamiconn, can i help you test or anything?
20:39:46mama1does anyone here have a toolchain for the sansa view?
20:40:10amiconnYes, as soon as I have prepared those test builds
20:40:36amiconnThere will be several; install one at a time, test playback, and report which of the builds work for you
20:40:37LambdaCalculus37mama1: arm-elf-gcc will be used, as the View's SoC is ARM-based.
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20:41:14LambdaCalculus37But Rockbox doesn't work on the View.
20:41:17MauSamiconn, i've got a problem with my M3. :( The connector of my remote loses contact when stirred while i carry it in a pocket. When it does, the music starts lacking some frequency range (the vocals or some instruments dissappear or become very quiet).
20:41:46MauSHow can this be?
20:42:00BigBambiSounds like a hardware problem
20:42:06MauSIt is
20:42:31BigBambiA loose connection?
20:42:35amiconnIt's most probably a grounding problem
20:42:35MauSI thought the sound is transferred via 3.5 mm Jack and i can't imagine how can bad contact cut some frequency range from music.
20:42:45MauSamiconn, huh?
20:43:14amiconnMy M3 remote also had that. The ground wire in the remote is soldered badly
20:43:32BigBambiMauS: So the headphones and remote plug into separate plugs on the main unit?
20:43:48amiconnIf the headphone "looses" ground, you will only hear the difference signal between both channels
20:44:19amiconnBigBambi: No, the headphone plugs into the remote
20:44:32BigBambiamiconn: I thought so
20:45:07BigBambiMauS: So in that case I don't understand the issue - there is a bad connection between the remote and the unit (which also carries audio), hence losing audio
20:45:11BigBambias amiconn said
20:45:24MauSamiconn, i thought that it is a problem of the socket, not the plug.
20:45:25amiconnThis difference signal will sound "hollow", and some frequencies will be missing. I depends on the music; if you're e.g. listening to a plain mono recording, you won't hear anything
20:45:47amiconnMauS: Neither. It's a problem of the soldered connection inside the remote
20:45:48BigBambiMauS: could be either
20:45:54BigBambior that
20:46:21amiconnI repaired mine. It's quite easy to open, but you need soldering skills
20:46:21BigBambibut theoretically, a bad connection at any point, be it in the socket on the unit, the wire, inside the remote etc. could cause it
20:46:24MauSamiconn, stirring the connector 100% solves the problem for a while.
20:46:50BigBambior something else?
20:46:52MauSWell.. pushing it
20:47:00BigBambiI just wanted to be clear :)
20:48:57amiconnIt's the connector where the remote cable is soldered to the remote pcb. Carefully resoldering all the pins (13 iirc) did the trick for me
20:49:17MauSI was pushing it deeper to solve the problem, even used a rubber ring for a more solid insertion. But it stopped helping. I found out that instead i should push it sideways.
20:49:45MauSamiconn, you mean opening the connector somehow?
20:50:03amiconnOpening the remote....
20:50:11MauSNot the plug?
20:50:28amiconnBy all your pushing and dragging you're flexing the pcb a bit, eventually making it work again
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20:50:52gevaertsCouldn't the entire remote blanking problem be caused/triggered/made worse by these bad contact issues ?
20:50:55amiconnEH, maybe I'm misunderstanding all the time?
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20:51:29amiconnDo you mean the connector (which plugs into the main unit), or the headphone plug (which plugs into the remote)?
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20:52:47MauSamiconn, the remote's plug that goes inth the main unit.
20:53:13amiconnI'm not sure then, but it could be a similar problem
20:53:19amiconn(in the main unit)
20:53:45MauSamiconn, is it safe to open the main unit?
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20:54:08MauSgevaerts, nope, i've never had a blanking/rippling problem on the original fw
20:54:13amiconngevaerts: For sure. But as it works when not boosted, lowering the transfer speed seems to be necessary
20:55:10gevaertsMauS: I'm nearly certain that the OF wasn't written by amiconn, so it't probably much less demanding of the hardware :)
20:56:10amiconngevaerts: In case you're wondering: the iaudio remote connector is similar to the iriver remote connector: a 3.5mm stereo jack, with a blade-like connector beside it (10 pins)
20:56:10MauSHow are the bad contact issue and the high hw reqs issue connected?
20:56:39amiconnHigh frequency signals don't like bad contacts
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20:58:24MauSOh my, i've opened the M3 O_O
20:59:32preglowamiconn: didn't you find an overview of instruction timings for arm9?
20:59:53*amiconn wonders whether preglow is checking answers :/
21:00:07preglowamiconn: didn't see any highlights
21:00:26bertrikgevaerts: I think I have constructed a descriptor now that allows both USB serial and mass storage on windows
21:00:26amiconn[00:31:55] <amiconn> preglow: I have no idea about the arm pipeline. If you're looking for the instruction cycle counts, has them
21:00:28preglowamiconn: anyway, you have a tendency not to answer me, so i just went and drew a hasty conclusion :)
21:00:54amiconnAlmost 21 hours ago, a just 16 minutes after your question :)
21:01:01bertrikhowever the serial port interface descriptor has to come first, also haven't tried it on linux yet
21:01:09preglowhrmph, i can't find any information detailed enough there
21:01:10gevaertsbertrik: great :)
21:01:11*preglow goes looking again
21:01:49*n1s wonders what preglow is up to
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21:02:19MauSamiconn, the bad contact problem takes place in the 3.5 mm jack? Or in the 10-contact blade?
21:02:23preglown1s: just reading up, the sooner i find out how it works, the better
21:02:29preglowi'm used to arm7
21:02:46n1sarm9 is v5 right?
21:02:58amiconnJust click through "ARM9 processors, and then the specific type of arm9
21:03:04amiconnn1s: Can be v4 or v5
21:03:08bertrikgevaerts: do we really need both serial and mass storage at the same time, having only one at the same time is soo much easier
21:04:09n1samiconn: ah, right the gigabeat f use a v4 one
21:04:20*linuxstb thinks a wiki page comparing all the arm cores used in Rockbox targets would be useful....
21:04:29n1skind of confusing naming scheme that
21:04:56amiconnlinuxstb: The device chart has the cpu types...
21:05:38gevaertsbertrik: having only one driver is of course possible. Does it need the device class in the device descriptor, or is per interface good enough ?
21:05:38amiconnMauS: Iirc both connectors form a single part. I'd expect some bad soldering at its pins
21:05:47linuxstbI'm thinking more like things like arm architecture versions, links to datasheets etc
21:06:03linuxstbi.e. what is arm7, arm9, arm v4/v5/v6/...
21:06:19bertrikgevaerts: I think it'
21:06:42bertriks OK for windows to have 00/00/00 for both serial and mass storage (i.e. specify it in the interface)
21:07:03amiconnOf those newer targets, I might be interested in the logikdax. It has a mono lcd, and it offers DAB...
21:07:10bertrik(that wasn't very clear)
21:07:18amiconnUnfortunately I have no idea where I could get one
21:08:25bertrikgevaerts: the device descriptor can have 00/00/00 for class/subclass/protocol, it's OK for windows to specify it in the interface descriptors
21:08:41amiconnThe D2 is interesting because of DAB and the SD slot, but having a touchscreen rules it out.
21:08:45preglowamiconn: hrm, not all cores have data on instruction timings, and most just barely mention how the pipeline is set up. i hate the tendency arm seems to have to delegate the responsibility for making this info available to each licensee
21:09:33gevaertsbertrik: ok. Making them exclusive should be easy then, but this would require a config setting I guess
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21:11:10preglowhmm, arm9tdmi has some instriction timing info
21:11:14MauSamiconn, can bad contact happen just because the jack socket got dirty?
21:11:36bertrikgevaerts: I was thinking more of a complete USB disconnect and re-appearing as a different device. AFAIK, windows only supports one configuration setting.
21:12:30amiconnpreglow: I can find the timings for ARM9E-S, ARM9EJ-S, ARM9TDMI, ARM920T, ARM922T, ARM940T
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21:13:18amiconnThey don't seem to be available for ARM926, ARM946, ARM966 and ARM968
21:13:26gevaertsbertrik: I was thinking about disconnect as well. Even if the os supports more configurations, it can't reasonably decide a feature set for you
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21:14:16MauSOh, it's dusty inside?
21:14:43MauSBigBambi, are common internet abbreviations forbidden here?
21:14:53preglowamiconn: i wonder which is the closest 926
21:15:05*preglow doesn't get arm version numbers
21:15:19BigBambiMauS: Best just to check out the guidelines linked in the topic
21:15:41*MauS *blush*
21:17:03shotofaddspreglow: the 926ej-s TRM has the ARM9ej-s TRM listed as "further reading", so I'd go with that one
21:17:42preglowshotofadds: btw, i've now managed to mess up the retailos time by writing both to the pcf and tcc rtcs :P
21:17:57preglowi think perhaps nand is going to be simpler than figuring out rtc
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21:18:16shotofaddslet me guess.. and neither can be back correctly?
21:18:58MauSamiconn, should i revert to the original fw until you fix the bug?
21:19:24amiconnpreglow: Of the ones where timing info available, I would think ARM9EJ-S is closest
21:19:24preglowshotofadds: pcf rtc works, at least, i get the feeling the tcc one isn't even initialized correctly... but the pcf time is way off. not even minutes and seconds are correct
21:19:30preglowamiconn: yep, and it has lots of info
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21:20:05shotofaddspreglow: it?
21:20:19shotofaddsah, ignore me
21:20:19amiconnIt's v5TEJ, like the 926
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21:20:45shotofaddsas I said, the 926EJS TRM refers to the 9EJS TRM
21:21:42preglowahh, smull/smlal and mul/mla are more deterministic, and even faster
21:21:46preglowthat's good
21:21:53linuxstbamiconn: I'm 99.9% sure this is identical to the logik DAX (the buttons seem in identical places, and the manual contains identical looking screenshots) -
21:22:33linuxstbBut I can't find the DAX for sale any more, although they do appear on ebay occasionally.
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21:23:02*preglow has to admit his not exactly thrilled to bits by the touchscreen
21:23:30shotofaddsin the OF or rockbox?
21:23:32linuxstbYes, I would have bought a D2 by now if it wasn't for the touchscreen (and lack of buttons)
21:23:53shotofaddsreally, it's quite usable with the 4 buttons
21:24:09preglowshotofadds: in general
21:24:13preglowi'm not a touch-screen fanatic, it seems
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21:24:21preglowit's just slower in use than buttons
21:24:32preglowit's completely decent, but i prefer buttons
21:25:07shotofaddssame here. I use the buttons most of the time - but you can't choose your music with buttons in the OF :/
21:25:18amiconnlinuxstb: That one seems to exist in black, white, and pink
21:25:28 Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!")
21:25:47BigBambiThat pink is, errr, lovely...
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21:26:06esperegu_is any current player supported?
21:26:14bertrikgevaerts: Linux did see a cdc device (didn't even BUG!) but doesn't create a /dev/ttyUSBx device
21:26:46gevaertsbertrik: did you specify VID and PID when loading usbserial ?
21:27:19bertrikI intended it to use cdc-acm module, but now I see it's actually loading usbserial
21:27:21*amiconn would prefer black
21:27:49*bertrik is confused
21:27:49*linuxstb is tempted to bid on the white one if the price stays low...
21:28:03*BigBambi is watching it too :)
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21:28:14bertrikgevaerts: the usbserial message I see is from inserting another USB-RS232 dongle, sorry
21:28:32linuxstbBigBambi: If you're serious, let me know - I already have two DAXes...
21:28:36amiconnlinuxstb: offers brand new ones - for GBP 119 ...
21:28:45BigBambilinuxstb: I would like a DAP one for sure
21:29:00linuxstbYes, over twice the price of the DAX (50 GBP) for identical hardware (I think).
21:29:07BigBambilinuxstb: I guess I'll watch until not long before and see what happens
21:29:08bertrikI thought cdc devices didn't need to have the VID/PID explicitly specified
21:29:15BigBambilinuxstb: but I will let you know
21:29:17shotofaddsthat's more expensive than an 8Gb D2 (
21:29:49gevaertsI don't know much about it, but sometimes they do
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21:31:14bluebrotherdomonoky: noticed Qt 4.4 is out?
21:32:11bluebrotherhopefully I'll find the time to reinstall my box the next couple of days and can get a look :)
21:32:31bluebrotherunfortunately my virtual machine is somewhat broken −− stupid windows :(
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21:35:34preglowseems like arm doesn't give away information on the java extensions
21:35:51bluebrotherwho wants java anyway? ;-)
21:37:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:37:32amiconnlinuxstb: The case looks different though
21:38:25amiconnAre there 3 buttons each at the top and bottom?
21:38:45linuxstbamiconn: Yes, but it looks like the actual PCB could be identical. IIUC, the DAX was designed by Telechips.
21:39:06linuxstb3 buttons at the top, and at the bottom, 2 buttons and a usb socket hidden under a fake button
21:39:09amiconnThe logik dax, currently out of stock though
21:39:43amiconnCan't find either one offered outside the UK though
21:40:25amiconn10 buttons in total must be great...
21:41:02linuxstbI'm not used to that luxury...
21:41:11preglowshotofadds: for some bloody reason, i just can't remember this nand terminology :)
21:41:38shotofaddspreglow: terminology?
21:41:52preglowshotofadds: sector, bank, block, segment, plane, bank, etc
21:42:20preglowshotofadds: btw, the nand chip select connected to the gpio pin, does that just select which physical nand chip cs0 and cs1 goes to?
21:42:26shotofaddsoh, yeah that's a problem. I _tried_ to explain it on the TelechipsNand wiki page, but it's not complete
21:42:57 Join Status [0] (
21:43:04 Join DerPapst [0] ( do i delete a song on rockbox?
21:43:23shotofaddspreglow: I believe that's how it's used in the OF, yes, to switch between two physical chips
21:43:25preglowStatus: by reading the manual
21:43:39Statusbefore i could just be playing the song and press down and i'd have a menu...on this new version i press down and something completely different
21:43:39MauSGoodnight everyone ^_^
21:43:51Statuspreglow i looked everywhere...
21:43:56*preglow hasn't tried the new quick screen...
21:44:02preglowmanual might not be updated yet
21:44:02LloreanStatus: Hold select.
21:44:09 Quit MauS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:44:10Statusi was just searching on google..and found that rockbox had an irc channel
21:44:13shotofadds /however/ I don't know of any D2s that use more than one physical chip
21:44:14Lloreanpreglow: deleting would be context menu, not quick screen.
21:44:24preglowshotofadds: i thought both the 4 gig and 8 gig used two chips
21:44:27Lloreanpreglow: I'm almost certain that he's referring to the changes I made to the sansa controls *ages* ago.
21:44:32preglowLlorean: /me puzzled
21:44:50Statuslet me check ;]
21:45:07shotofaddspreglow: 4gb and 8gb are both two banks in one physical package, iirc
21:45:10Lloreanpreglow: Status wanted to delete a file from a menu on the "down" button (previously loaded the context menu, now loads the main menu)
21:45:12preglowshotofadds: ah, riight
21:45:27preglowshotofadds: you tried to open your d2, btw? i gave it a shot and loosened some screws, but i still couldn't figure out how to actually pry it open without scratching the shit out of it
21:45:27shotofaddsmakes perfect sense :p
21:45:56shotofaddsI loosened the screws, and then decided I like it too much to open it forcefully :(
21:46:04preglowshotofadds: that'd be exactly what i felt as well
21:46:15preglowespecially considering my experiences opening my nano and h120
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21:46:25preglownano: now has a slightly misaligned back cover
21:46:33preglowh120: plastic around side screws pulverized
21:46:58*amiconn opened most of his daps
21:47:03shotofaddsah, I managed the h100 perfectly well. I've had to solder the stop button back on several times on that thing...
21:47:16shotofadds(and haven't broken it ... yet)
21:47:17preglowi've opened my h120 tons of times, problem is that something went wrong with the side screws
21:47:20preglowi probably wasn't careful en ough
21:47:33preglowipods are just plain annoying to open
21:47:59amiconnThe standard ipods are easy... just the minis (and the nano 2g) are hard
21:48:06*Llorean has great desire never to have to open his Nano.
21:48:45preglowanyone remember what the standard spinup time is for a standard h120 drive?
21:48:54preglowmine seems to be 3sec++, which i think sounds a bit much
21:49:13amiconnI'm not sure about the nano 1g - it should be possible to open the same way as the standard ipods, but it's quite thin, so it might be more difficult to open
21:49:18*LambdaCalculus37 has had to open his 4G color... that was a pain =/
21:49:36amiconnAround 3 sec is normal for practically all hdd targets
21:49:55amiconn(2.5", 1.8" and 1" with the exception of the Minis)
21:50:18amiconnThe mini's microdrive spins up in ~500ms
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21:51:02amiconnI don't understand why the seagate microdrive in the small H10 and the m:robe 100 needs as long as a big hdd...
21:51:25webguest98hello, I have a quick question I know rockbox plays mpeg file format, but does that include mp4?
21:51:39BigBambiMPEG1/2 only
21:51:53*preglow likes the 1 cycle multiply-accumulate instructions on arm9ej-s, but hates the fact he can't use them easily in dsp.c
21:51:55webguest98ok thanks.
21:52:30 Quit webguest98 (Client Quit)
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21:54:06amiconnpreglow: What's special about them?
21:54:28 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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21:55:28preglowamiconn: well, they're fast :) they are so becase they're not 32x32, they're either 32x16 or 16x16
21:55:59preglowamiconn: also, they let you choose upper or lower halfword of a register for the 16 bit operands, emac style
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21:59:39linuxstbpreglow: So for vector operations, you can do 32-bit reads, and then perform the two multiplications directly?
22:00:00preglow926 has a hardvard arch, that i did not know
22:00:04 Part Ebert
22:00:14preglowlinuxstb: indeed, i already know of several places where i can take advantage of this
22:00:22preglowmostly in speex, i intend to have speex encoding going on the d2
22:00:40linuxstbAPE will benefit from that...
22:00:52preglowand hopefully also on arm7 and coldfire, of course
22:02:09preglownow, if we could only get this basic stuff working...
22:02:15*preglow curses the nand
22:02:38*Llorean would certainly enjoy having speex encoding for voice notes and such
22:03:01preglowLlorean: well, i intend to let you have it :)
22:03:12preglowon d2, i even expect to have wb mode working
22:03:16 Quit gregzx (Connection timed out)
22:04:16amiconnpreglow: They say hardvard cache
22:04:34 Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere)
22:04:38amiconnIt's a bit confusing, but I think it refers to the fact that instruction cache and data cache are separate
22:04:43preglowamiconn: confusing indeed...
22:04:56preglowso the internal bus is harvard? hardly surprising
22:05:12amiconnAnd btw, these packed 16 bit mac instructions are ideal for the ape filter...
22:05:24preglowamiconn: is a 32 bit accumulator ok for that?
22:05:41preglowamiconn: then you'll have a single cycle mac instruction
22:05:42amiconnThe result is clipped to 16 bits anyway
22:06:00amiconnIs there a way to add 16 bit register halves as well?
22:06:01preglow16x16 can also do a 64 bit accumulator, but at two cycles
22:06:07preglowamiconn: sadly, no
22:06:11amiconn(just add, not multiply-add)
22:06:16 Quit Horscht ("electromagnetic radiation from satellite debris")
22:06:31preglowamiconn: but with a dummy register for a "1", sure :)
22:06:57 Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht)
22:07:08amiconnThis would need fetching the accumulator every time
22:07:55preglowfetching? smlalxx lets you put the accmulator wherever you want it, just like mla
22:08:23preglowsmlaxx, i mean
22:08:53amiconnThe ape filter needs to add vectors
22:09:07amiconnNot add all values from a vector into a single result value
22:09:13*shotofadds thinks we need to be able to _load_ files before decoding them :/
22:09:23preglowshotofadds: i can dream, can't i?
22:09:32shotofaddsheh, dream away :-)
22:09:33*preglow gears up for some melodrama
22:09:34amiconnI.e. a[0] += b[0]; a[1] += b[1]; etc
22:10:05bertrikgevaerts: I think I can't make both USB serial and USB mass storage work for the PP targets for both windows and linux
22:10:06preglowshotofadds: btw, do telechips keep a log->phys translation table in flash?
22:10:19bertrikthe only thing I haven't tried is to use interface association descriptors
22:10:25amiconnCheck apps/codecs/demac/libdemac/vector_math16*.h
22:10:27shotofaddspreglow: yes, there is one. but it isn't always up-to-date, so it's not helpful at all.
22:10:38preglowamiconn: the accumulate instruction also update a flag in the cpsr that stays set on overflows, i wonder how well that can be used for saturation
22:10:47preglowshotofadds: i wonder what the point is...
22:10:59bertrikgevaerts: you would be OK with only having one of them at a time?
22:11:02preglowshotofadds: perhaps it has several and cycle between them?
22:11:14preglowusing the same block would be kind of stupid, wear-wise
22:11:18shotofaddsthere's only 1 copy (the 0x12 blocks)
22:11:23shotofaddsthey move around the flash
22:11:34amiconnThe beast is arm v6, correct?
22:11:38gevaertsbertrik: maybe add a "can't coexist with other drivers" flag to the class driver struct
22:11:42preglowamiconn: aye
22:11:55amiconnI wonder how the beast performs when playing ape....
22:11:59preglowamiconn: that has simd extensions that will be very useful for ap
22:12:11preglowat least probably
22:12:13amiconnarm v6 should also have those single-cycle 16 bit mac instructions, correct?
22:12:17preglowamiconn: yes
22:12:24*scorche|sh wonders why people want to play ape on an embedded device..
22:12:29preglowscorche|sh: madness
22:12:32gevaertsbertrik: I don't want to do this in general. If we ever get HID, that should be able to coexists with just about anything
22:12:54shotofaddspreglow: I get the feeling I'm missing something crucial, but there are no other block types on the flash. I can't locate any other non-page data (if you get what I mean)
22:12:58 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.)
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22:13:20preglowshotofadds: a nasty business, this :/
22:13:35shotofaddsI can't work out how it tracks changes. If a change a sector, the original copy still exists on the flash, plus a new copy. but there's seemingly no way to determine which is the up-to-date copy
22:13:36bertrikgevaerts: ok
22:13:47bertrikWould HID actually make sense though?
22:14:12gevaertsbertrik: serial probably won't be used for much else than debugging. That means (IMHO) that making it work is the most important. Coexisting with other drivers would be nice, but not at a high complexity cost
22:14:14amiconnscorche: First in order to show that we can, and then ape has the best compression of all supported lossless formats so far
22:14:17 Join yeal` [0] (
22:14:28yeal`is there a way to make it so rockbox is faster
22:14:42yeal`ipod software does not have to load a database each time i browse songs
22:14:55amiconnThat's actually something where the extra power of the newer targets makes sense.
22:15:05scorche|shamiconn: at a cost of battery life since it needs a good bit of power..
22:15:17gevaertsbertrik: HID doesn't really make sense now (with only usb storage), but I think that if we ever have usb audio, being able to use the player buttons would be nice
22:15:21scorche|shdepending on target and how we handle the cpu of course
22:15:28BigBambiyeal`: I don't really understand what you are asking
22:15:55yeal`ipod os does not require loading a song database each time you look at files
22:15:58yeal`rockbox does
22:15:59Lloreanyeal`: iPod software doesn't have customizable searches, so it pre-calculates the results of the filters on the computer instead.
22:16:03yeal`rockbox is slower
22:16:16scorche|shi realize the "show we can" bit...i am talking about practical usage
22:16:21yeal`can rockbox do that , llorean?
22:16:26BigBambiyeal`: Depends if you use the database or the file browser
22:16:33amiconngevaerts: Wouldn't HID make a cheap "charging-only" interface that doesn't pop up driver requests in windows?
22:16:45Lloreanyeal`: No, because we can't know in advance what searches you're going to use. The software that does it is actually iTunes. If you want a constant layout, just use the filetree, it will be much faster.
22:16:50BigBambiyeal`: No, but it is a *huge* amount more flexible
22:17:14yeal`the filetree lists files as F02 and F03
22:17:18yeal`instead of the actual song naems
22:17:25gevaertsamiconn: that's another use. But I actually also have a do-nothing usb audio implementation here that also doesn't pop up anything
22:17:27amiconnscorche: I can imagine that some users what to squeeze as much lossless music on their devices, even if it costs runtime
22:17:27Bagderyeal`: then rename them!
22:17:33Lloreanyeal`: Then put the songs on there without using a program that renames them stupid things.
22:17:36BigBambiyeal`: That is because itunes copies sons with stupid filename
22:17:50BigBambiyeal`: That is all itunes being stupid
22:17:51bertrikamiconn: indeed
22:17:58 Quit Absnthe ("back in an hour")
22:18:16*gevaerts should get back to that usb audio thing some day
22:18:55amiconnHmm. Isn't HID always low-speed?
22:19:02*linuxstb still wants Rockbox to act as a USB printer...
22:19:12bertrikcan be full-speed as well
22:19:18amiconnAh ok
22:19:34LloreanBut not high?
22:19:53gevaertsHID is quite often used for one or two buttons somewhere in addition to whatever the primary function of the device is
22:20:09gevaertslow, full and high
22:20:10bertrikLlorean: I don't think there's a limitation on the physical side for HID
22:20:25gevaertsYou can build a high speed mouse if you like...
22:20:28Lloreanbertrik: I was just curious because of the conspicuous use of the term "full"
22:21:12bertrikto the device driver it's almost invisible whether the device is low, full or high speed
22:21:25bertrikdevice -> USB class
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22:25:07yeal`if i put songs on my ipod manually, then i won't be able to use itunes
22:25:22yeal`i mean ipod os
22:25:48preglowshotofadds: i can't seem to be able to find a datasheet for the nand chip in the 8 gig. is there one?
22:26:21linuxstbyeal`: Correct
22:27:23linuxstbyeal`: Have you enabled the "load to RAM" option for the database?
22:27:36bertriklinuxstb: USB printer should be doable, AFAIK it's basically just a parallel port emulation :)
22:27:56gevaertsbertrik: of course we also need a ghostscript port then :)
22:27:56shotofaddspreglow: the K9XXG08UXM datasheet is generic and applies to that chip, too
22:28:08 Part ryanakca
22:28:14preglowshotofadds: apart from the column address format, i assume
22:28:20linuxstbbertrik: Really? I would have thought it was at a higher level than that.
22:28:47preglowlinuxstb: you mean the way ums really is just scsi?
22:28:52shotofaddspreglow: I guess. see the "ID Definition Table" at the end,
22:29:00shotofaddsfor the different possibilities
22:29:12linuxstbpreglow: ;) No, more like usb audio...
22:30:41bertrikWith USB serial it would be possible to run a simple command shell on the target itself, which would be great for debugging I think
22:31:49bertriklinuxstb: yes, as far as I understand after skimming the USB printing devices spec
22:32:14 Quit mcuelenaere ()
22:33:05amiconnbertrik: Iiuc it would even allow to use gdb over serial (needs a gdb stub on target)
22:34:29gevaertsDoes that work well if the driver needs interrupts ?
22:34:32bertrikhmm, interesting idea :P
22:35:24linuxstbDidn't the iFP port feature that?
22:36:18gevaertsIt did have files related to it. I don't know how well it worked
22:36:42preglowlinuxstb: wouldn't surprise me if that turned out to be line out over usb :)
22:36:45 Quit creamycenter2003 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:36:48amiconnI don't know. On archos, gdb over serial is usable (via an actual serial port, just requiring a level converter)
22:37:50gevaertsI'm also a bit worried about the usage of threads and message queues by the usb infrastructure. It would limit what you can debug. Of course it's possible to add another more basic driver
22:40:17 Quit carini ("ChatZilla 0.9.81-rdmsoft [XULRunner]")
22:40:26*bertrik thinks it's quite unlikely to have a target that needs to be debugged with gdb and yet already has a stable USB serial implementation
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22:41:05Bagderyou could still debug playback and codecs etc
22:42:37 Quit BigBambi (Remote closed the connection)
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22:45:29*bluebrother wonders what happened to the study mode discussion
22:46:16n1samiconn: linuxstb posted results from an APE test on the beast (at 265MHz) in the wiki, ~10% faster than gigabeat f (that is running your optimized arm7 assebler code though)
22:47:52bertrikbluebrother: IIRC, everyone that voiced an opinion on it wouldn't mind if it was removed, but no decision was made, then it drifted off-topic, but we could check the logs again
22:49:25LloreanI'd like to see a coarse seeking function *like* study mode, but only if people familiar with the areas it touched agreed it didn't add significantly negative complexity.
22:50:02 Join PaulJam_ [0] (
22:51:25bluebrotherLlorean: something like the Apple OF does where you can switch the wheel between volume and fast seeking mode?
22:51:39 Quit roseen ("CGI:IRC")
22:52:14Lloreanbluebrother: That's not very much use on any but wheel targets.
22:52:30LloreanI like the idea of "pressing next skips X seconds/minutes instead of going to the next track"
22:52:38LloreanBut it sounds like it's just too complex.
22:52:42LloreanOr at least, not very clean
22:52:50LloreanJudging from the negative commentary, at least
22:53:16 Quit BigBambi (Remote closed the connection)
22:53:50preglowi agree
22:53:56bertrikI like the idea of using the wheel for seeking when paused, but indeed it only works on wheel targets
22:53:58preglowbut it probably won't happen as long as study mode is in svn...
22:54:08bluebrotherI guess we will get quite some confused users wondering why skipping doesn't work anymore ...
22:54:31bertrikstudy mode is a setting that defaults to off
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22:54:43preglowi refuse to believe adding "skip x seconds" instad of "skip track" can be very hard
22:54:45amiconnn1s: The gigabeat F/X uses the C code (slightly faster than the ARM7 assembler)
22:54:49preglowand if it is, something is badly botched somewhere
22:54:55Lloreanbluebrother: It should absolutely be disabled by default. I didn't mean to suggest it should always happen on longer files.
22:55:16amiconnWith dedicated arm v6 assembler it should be able to run significantly faster
22:55:23bluebrothertrue. But the wording isn't quite good and users already have been confused by party mode
22:55:38bluebrotherLlorean: I wasn't implying that it's enabled by default for longer files
22:55:41preglowwhat is party mode? :>
22:56:05LloreanYes, it needs a better name than "study mode" certainly.
22:56:09bluebrotheryep. Now enable it and be confused. "Help, I can't skip anymore"
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22:56:51bluebrotherespecially as I know study mode as something completely different. My old SonicBlue CD mp3 player has this, and it was something like "skip 5 seconds back when resuming".
22:57:29Lloreanbluebrother: The problem is I mentioned that iriver called it "study mode", so that name got chosen by someone I guess so as to be familiar for iriver users?
22:57:58 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:58:05BigBambi_I don't so much mind the idea of study mode (knowing nothing about the code implications), but the name is *completely* inaccurate
22:58:12n1samiconn: ah, I only looked quickly and saw that the predictor asm was used for all arm cpus so i assumed the same for the rest
22:58:38bluebrotherthe name "tracklock" that was used in the tracker task first is _much_ better.
22:58:44amiconnThe arm asm predictor is indeed used for all arm... and it's not my work ;)
22:58:44*shotofadds wonders how to make the D2 usable in pocket if something similar to the OF's "hold switch" trick isn't desired
22:58:55Lloreanbluebrother: I don't think "tracklock" is particularly useful, there's no "locking" going on really.
22:59:11*amiconn only did the optimised arm7 filters, and the coldfire predictor and filters
22:59:13LloreanAnd you should still go to the next track if you skip to the end of it, just like seeking to the end.
22:59:20*Llorean likes neither name.
22:59:21BigBambi_Llorean: Not ideal, but better than study mode :)
22:59:37LloreanI disagree, I think they're both very bad.
22:59:42bluebrotherLlorean: I agree that the name isn't the best. But IMO it's much better than "study mode".
22:59:45BigBambi_How about just something like "Course skipping"
23:00:36Llorean"Coarse skipping: On/Off" and "Coarse skip amount: 5m, 10m, 15m, 30m" or something.
23:00:38preglowi think the setting should be called "skip mode", or something
23:00:55preglowwith optiosn "skip track, seek five secs, seek ten secs, seek thirty secs, etc"
23:01:14preglowsomething better than "skip mode" can be found, surely, but i think this is the best way to fit the option in
23:01:19LloreanMakes sense.
23:02:05preglowthis also cuts back on the amount of settings, just one extra and not three, like the study mode patch
23:02:07 Quit BigBambi_ ("Please insert girder")
23:02:35*BigBambi prods someone to rename flashlight at the same time
23:02:40preglowto what?
23:02:45n1spreglow: maybe "track skip mode" ? slightly more self explanatory, although study mode is not hard to beat :)
23:02:53BigBambipreglow: Light, or illuminate maybe
23:03:01preglown1s: problem is that "seek five seconds" isn't a "track skip mode"
23:03:02linuxstbOr "torch" ;)
23:03:13BigBambipreglow: The thing is, Rockbox uses UK english, in which flashlight is wrong
23:03:24Lloreanlinuxstb: Didn't we agree on American English for user visible strings? :-P
23:03:34LloreanI thought we used UK in the code, and US in the text?
23:03:40BigBambipreglow: But the correct word, torch, is likely to confuse our American friends
23:03:45preglowcan't we use the same for everything, please :)
23:03:57n1spreglow: of course seeking isn't skipping like "Resume" isn't a screen :)
23:04:20Lloreanpreglow: As to the skip mode, I'd argue that any value less than 1 minute is probably not very useful compared to normal seeking.
23:04:23Nico_Ppreglow: yes?
23:04:27*BigBambi kicks linuxstb into action
23:04:37preglowNico_P: have you had a look at the study mode commit?
23:04:51Nico_Pno, I haven't
23:04:53preglowNico_P: just wondering if you would be able to say if the code implementation is overly complex
23:05:10Nico_Pwhat revision is it? I could take a quick look before I leave
23:05:19preglowNico_P: it basically just implements "seek x secs back/forward" instead of "skip track", and i think it has too much code for what it does
23:05:22preglowgimme a sec
23:05:34bluebrotherLlorean: the manual also "defaults" to UK english
23:05:46Lloreanbluebrother: Maybe I've got it backward then.
23:05:52BigBambiLlorean: you do :)
23:05:59 Quit FOAD ("I'll be back")
23:06:08BigBambiThe user interface and manual etc is UK, code is US
23:06:10*linuxstb thought Llorean was joking
23:06:10preglowon second read, not much of it is playback code...
23:06:12 Join FOAD [0] (
23:06:25 Quit DerPapst_ (Connection timed out)
23:06:31BigBambilinuxstb: me too
23:06:32preglowNico_P: anyway, perhaps you would be able to say how simple such a function should be to implement :P
23:06:56Nico_Ppreglow: it should be pretty simple, but that can change with all the special casing that can be needed
23:07:02BigBambiBut, given that torch/flashlight/light/illuminate isn't yet in the manual, this seems an ideal time to change it
23:07:03Lloreanlinuxstb: Unfortunately I wasn't. At some point it ended up that it's "colors" in the code and "colours" in the language files. My memory betrayed me, and i thought it was the other way around.
23:07:35linuxstbLlorean: That's the whole reason some people don't like "flashlight" as the name for the plugin...
23:07:57pixelmahas this study mode been tested on hwcodec yet?
23:07:59Nico_Ppreglow: it doesn't add anything to playback.c. it just uses the ff_rw funcs
23:08:10Lloreanlinuxstb: I thought it was the same reason I don't like "Torch", ie: rather than being a spelling variant, it's actually a word that can cause some confusion as people may not be familiar with it in that context at all
23:08:11preglowNico_P: no, i noticed that
23:08:25BigBambiLlorean: there is that too
23:08:31Lloreanlinuxstb: I'd much rather a word present for that use in either dialect, such as "Light"
23:08:36BigBambime too
23:08:56BigBambiLlorean: Make it so! There seems to be general agreement on this...
23:09:04*linuxstb still doesn't agree that a torch (in the US meaning) isn't also a descriptive name
23:09:11pixelmacould there be specific problems (if someone could tell by reading the code/looking at the files changed)
23:09:14preglowi probably think "torch" is the better word
23:09:22preglow"light" is too vague, in a way
23:09:24Nico_Ppreglow: the added code really is in the UI handling... I'm not sure it could be trimmed down
23:09:32BigBambime too (being British), bit I'm willing to compromise
23:09:50*Llorean knows people who would figure out "Torch" eventually, but would first assume it's a game or something because Torches involve Fire.
23:09:56linuxstbI would be happy with something vague, but would prefer torch, as that's the purpose of the plugin
23:10:05Nico_PI remember suffering a bit with that code when doing the cue support.
23:10:08BigBambiI would just like it to not be flashlight
23:10:25 Quit FOAD (Client Quit)
23:10:34LloreanWe could name it Single_Coloured_Screen_With_Backlight
23:10:37 Join FOAD [0] (
23:10:39bertriktorch sounds like it can set something on fire
23:10:54BigBambibertrik: not in UK english
23:11:00BigBambi(or yes, but not only)
23:11:25BigBambiRight, vote time. 1) Light 2) Illuminate 3) Torch 4) Flashlight
23:11:27preglowgo "light"
23:11:41LloreanMaybe we should just wait for localized plugin names, and introduce an USA.lang.
23:12:03bluebrotheruseless-lightonly-plugin :)
23:12:07BigBambiI'd prefer to change it now and if a USA lang gets introduced deal with that then
23:12:13 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:12:29*BigBambi votes 1 or 2
23:12:30bluebrotheronce we get localization for plugins, why not create a en_US lang file?
23:12:35shotofaddseasy: rocklight ;)
23:12:42BigBambishotofadds: damn you
23:12:44*amiconn , not being a native speaker, prefers british english over american, but always associates "torch" with the fiery thing
23:12:55 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.)
23:13:08 Join DerPapst_ [0] (
23:13:12BigBambiI would prefer torch, but have ruled it out in deference to compromise
23:13:22linuxstbamiconn: But a firey thing designed to give light, or a firey thing designed for setting fire to objects?
23:13:44yeal`any of you found any good uses for ipodlinux since it cannot really display itune copied files correctly?
23:13:45BigBambiAll in favour of light say aye
23:13:47 Join fml [0] (n=4fd3d0b2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:13:55BigBambiyeal`: That is off topic here
23:14:23amiconnThe thing to give light.
23:14:41BigBambiwhich is what a torch does, just electrically
23:14:42*bertrik votes 1) Light, but will probably never use the plugin
23:14:54*Nico_P leaves
23:14:57BigBambibluebrother: It can light cigarettes?
23:14:58amiconnIn German there are very different words for the fiery torch versus the torch running from batteries
23:15:09 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
23:15:13BigBambiIn english english they are the same
23:15:44amiconnBigBambi: Yes, in british english they're the same. What about american?
23:15:45preglowamiconn: out of curiosity, what are they?
23:15:48 Quit tvelocity_ (Remote closed the connection)
23:15:53BigBambiamiconn: in US no
23:15:57amiconnpreglow: Fackel and Taschenlampe
23:15:59fmlMay I add a bit to the study mode talk? Why not call it "rew/fwd mode"? There will be 'continuous' mode (like what we have now) and 'coarse' mode. In the coarse mode, first press of, say, right would just skip N secs. If you then release the button that's it. If you keep it pressed, it goes on continuously.
23:16:11pixelmaif one translates that German word back and simplifies it, you could call it "lamp"
23:16:15preglowamiconn: fakkel and lommelykt in norwegian :)
23:16:22preglowthey mean the same
23:16:22Lloreanpixelma: I was just about to suggest "lamp", too.
23:16:26BigBambiamiconn: hence me prefering torch as that is the correct word in 'my' english, but not insisting on torch as I know the US don't use it
23:16:31fmlSo the difference between the continuous and coarse mode is what happens on the first press.
23:16:36BigBambiLamp would be good
23:16:41preglowooh, lamp
23:16:42preglowme like
23:16:50BigBambiLamp is nice
23:16:55Lloreanfml: The behaviour on holding down the button won't change, it's just taps of the button that would.
23:16:58preglowalso, make a lavalamp plug, please
23:17:00bertrikin dutch it's zaklamp
23:17:12BigBambiRight then, any objections to lamp?
23:17:23pixelmapreglow: maybe combine plasma and "lamp"?
23:18:11*bertrik agrees to lamp
23:18:20BigBambilinuxstb: ?
23:18:26fmlLlorean: does the track skip now on button release? Not on press?
23:19:29*shotofadds thinks "lamp" at least doesn't imply we support (adobe) Flash Lite ;)
23:19:30amiconnfml: It always skipped on release
23:19:46preglowshotofadds: :D
23:19:55Lloreanfml: You are aware that the ff/rw button also do track skip. The first press normally skips to the next track, the feature is offering an alternate where the first press skips an amount of time, instead of to the next song.
23:20:03LloreanI don't understand your "continuous" suggestion at all.
23:20:03fmlI'd think of it as of keyboard auto repeat on PC: first press immediately produces a character (skip N secs in our case), then a delay, then repeating (continuous moving in our case)
23:20:34linuxstbBigBambi: Lamp is my second choice ;)
23:20:41amiconnfml: The press can't be used as a trigger if short and long presses are used for different actions
23:20:45BigBambiLlorean: lamp OK?
23:21:08amiconnAnd skip vs. seek is such a case
23:21:23LloreanBigBambi: I like it.
23:21:29fmlLlorean: 'continuous' means just what we have now, i.e. no jumps on 'click' (i.e. short press and then release)
23:21:33*BigBambi feels we have built a consensus
23:21:45Lloreanfml: Short press and release right now goes to the next track. I'd call that a significant jump.
23:21:50BigBambiNow all we need is someone with commit rights to do the renaming....
23:22:07*BigBambi spots a few people with said powers
23:22:54 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:23:16*petur points out that many users will end up with two identical plugins with different names
23:23:33BigBambiAll the more reason to do it now not later
23:23:34 Join Rob2222 [0] (
23:24:11amiconnlinuxstb: How do you run code on the dax? Is there a chance for a sane bootloader installation?
23:24:15Lloreanpetur: So we should accompany it with a change to the plugin API breaking backward compatibility.
23:24:29fmlLlorean, amiconn: ok, I see. What would you say about a hopping mode: keeping the button pressed moves the position in jumps but stays at the end (or start) of the track once it's reached. To skip to the next/prev track, you have to release the button and click it again. This is like wrapping in lists now.
23:24:32bluebrothertetrox has been renamed before, so ...
23:24:35pixelmawell, I asked them to clean up their wps folder(s) too
23:25:01BigBambipetur: I still think it ought to be renamed, flashlight is wrong in UK english
23:25:14amiconnfml: That's how it always worked (seeking confined to the current track)
23:25:18*bluebrother would like to add a cleanup functionality to rbutil
23:25:26amiconnIt even slows down when approaching the start or end
23:25:39*pixelma notices that flashlight/lamp doesn't seem to be in the manual yet :\
23:25:55BigBambipixelma: exactly, so lets change it before it gets in :)
23:26:11peturpixelma: I was just adding flashlight to the manual. It's OK I think to not include a screenshot as that would be pretty useless ;)
23:26:51 Join skull0 [0] (n=skull0@
23:26:54pixelmaprepare people to see a blank screen otherwise they get confused ;)
23:27:09peturso flashlight becomes lamp?
23:27:13bluebrothermaybe it should show a splash on how to exit anyway?
23:27:15fmlamiconn: hrm... yes, you are right! But then the study mode (pardon the name!) does exactly what it should IMHO What's wrong with it? That it's impossible to skip to the next track with the normal click?
23:28:20Lloreanfml: The main problem is that it isn't done as cleanly (and intuitively in terms of settings) as we'd like, and has a bad name.
23:28:21fmlpetur: for the sake of the screenshot, we should add a descriptive text to the plugin, i.e. "You're now using the flashlight plugin" :-)
23:28:35BigBambifml: The *lamp* plugin :)
23:28:55fmlBigBambi: exuse me Sir!
23:29:24skull0Hello everyone!
23:30:18skull0Im hopping some friend help me to try rockbox in an odd jukebox but i dont know where to start
23:30:19fmlLlorean: couldn't we assign a 'hop' to a combo? E.g. play+right on h120?
23:30:36fmlThen we wouldn't need such mode at all
23:31:02Lloreanfml: There are players where such combos are difficult/impossible.
23:31:08LloreanIt would be better to just fix the problems with it.
23:31:55n1splay+right is already dirskip iirc
23:32:42 Quit gevaerts ("good night")
23:32:44 Quit dabujo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:33:02 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection)
23:33:40skull0how can I check if rockbox have opportunity to run in hardware different from the ones listed?
23:33:52Lloreanskull0: It only runs on ones listed.
23:33:58bluebrotherskull0: check the NewPorts wiki page
23:34:14 Quit leox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:34:21BigBambiskull0: For a new port check either the New Ports forum or
23:34:35*scorche|sh sees he missed "torch" discussion =/
23:34:46BigBambiscorche|sh: Lamp work for you?
23:35:06*scorche|sh likes illuminate but will concede to a majority for lamp
23:35:11fmlActually, I'd like or need the 'study mode' for one purpose: quickly jump back to a certain point within the current song. Is there another way to do that now? I.e. to set a marker and jump back to it.
23:35:34skull0Ill check it
23:35:36Lloreanfml: a-b repeat.
23:35:50LloreanOr bookmarks.
23:36:17skull0thanks Llorean, bluebrother and BigBambi
23:36:19LloreanOr cuesheets if you know the point in advance.
23:37:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:37:49*fml goes reading manual (A-B)
23:38:59 Join PissedSoap [0] (n=42c07542@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:39:02fmlAhem... Why is the manual for H120 called 'h100'? Isn't that politically incorrect?
23:39:14BigBambifml: It is the h100 series
23:39:30BigBambiincluding the h110, h115, h120 and h140
23:40:14*BigBambi gives up making a patch for flashlight > lamp; svn diff doesn't seem to be able to handle svn move
23:40:28*petur is prepping the rename commit
23:40:46n1spetur.commit_count++ :D
23:40:53fmlBigBambi: ah, so there isn't such thing as H100? Only H110 etc?
23:41:16BigBambifml: As far as I know
23:41:29fmlLlorean: I owe you much! A-B repeat mode is exectly what I need (if I understand the manual right)
23:42:08BigBambipetur: coolio :)
23:42:11fmlBigBambi: on the manual download page, it says 'H100/H115'
23:42:18BigBambioh really?
23:42:28 Join DerPapst [0] (
23:42:35fmlBigBambi: yes. That's why I asked.
23:43:01BigBambiI meant that in surprise not I didn't believe you :)
23:43:19bluebrotherI just noticed that the manual download page has an "M-Robe" while the manual calls it "m:robe"
23:43:35bluebrotherwe're somewhat inconsistent with namings :(
23:43:39amiconnIt's even more confusing. Iirc their first player was called iHP100 (10GB), then there was an iHP110 (15GB), iHP120 (20GB) and iHP140 (40GB)
23:43:48BigBambifml: So on that same page I see the manual for h120/h140...
23:43:52linuxstbamiconn: I either use tcctool to upload code to RAM in usb boot mode (that requires a hardware mod, or physically removing the NAND module), or I have a dual-boot bootloader working which can be appended to the OF and "flashed" (to a hidden part of the NAND flash).
23:44:00LloreanAnd then the iHPs were retroactively renamed to H-
23:44:04Bagderbluebrother: the poor truth behind that particular one is that the colon is a magic separator in the build script!
23:44:18amiconnLater on they were forced to rename them (due to the 'HP' in the name), and then the iHP100 became H110, and the iHP110 became H115
23:44:24bluebrotherBagder: too bad. No way to escape that?
23:44:35peturpixelma: is there an option to specify a certain feature in the manual (HAVE_BACKLIGHT) or must I specify all players that have it?
23:44:40BagderI guess I could make an effort
23:45:21fmlAre the manuals for the Hxx all the same? Why not make just one out of them?
23:45:38bluebrotherpetur: check features.tex in the manual build dir
23:45:40Lloreanfml: The h110/h115 use a different build and bootloader than the h120/h140
23:45:48LloreanThey have half the RAM.
23:46:08pixelmapetur: have to check
23:46:10bluebrotherbut the manual is the same −− the h120 download links to the h100 manual
23:46:36peturbluebrother: thanks
23:47:02bluebrotherpetur: oh, and there is HAVE_BACKLIGHT in some platform files ;-)
23:47:19Lloreanbluebrother: I guess that makes sense, since the bootloader is handled by fwpatcher rather than having an explicit file to download.
23:47:26fmln1s: he-he. I see that you've just abandoned the 'without shift' mode for the calculator in ipods, right? :-)
23:47:37bluebrotherI'm wondering why this isn't created by the features feature
23:48:02n1sfml: they simply don't have enough buttons and I didn't see a particular reason to keep it anyway
23:48:04peturbluebrother: seems I need HAVE_BACKLIGHT, not the brightness one
23:48:13pixelmabecause it's not made a feature in features.tex on purpose
23:48:27*petur listens
23:48:33pixelmaeh... features.txt
23:48:40 Quit TheNumber (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:49:01pixelmait would only affect the Ondio which can have a backlight mod (IIRC)
23:49:02bluebrotherah, ok. Haven't looked into featurex.txt much
23:49:13fmlLlorean: but does that mean a different manual?
23:49:16n1spixelma: it could of course be added if we want it
23:49:29fmlLlorean: keys and such are the same, right?
23:49:31Lloreanfml: It means people think their players are different, since they have different builds.
23:49:42amiconnn1s: We don't want it, because features.txt also controls .voice and .lng generation
23:49:45LloreanSo if you remove either one, people will ask "I need a different build, where is the manual for my build?"
23:49:50Lloreanfml: They both link to the same manual.
23:50:09n1samiconn: ?
23:50:17bluebrotherI think it's also somewhat to make the table identical to the build table
23:50:25n1sI meant a 'feature' for the HAVE_BACKLIGHT
23:50:32pixelman1s: Ondio backlight mod
23:50:39amiconnThe only target without backlight is the Ondio, and the Ondio can be backlight modded
23:50:49fmlLlorean: ah... But that can also be confusing since people who want to have a H120/140 manual see that the get somethig else. And assume an erroneous link
23:51:03n1sah, you mean it will brake the build for the modded targets, ok
23:51:04amiconnSo we decided to deliberately always include the .lng strings and .voice clips for backlight on Ondio
23:51:24 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:51:25peturcouldn't I just add it in the manual for all targets then?
23:51:31fmlLlorean: I'd name it H1xx or H100-series
23:51:34n1s"someone" should put that in a comment somewhere ;)
23:51:41amiconnOtherwise a .voice file for a stock Ondio could not be used on a modded one
23:51:57Lloreanfml: We've never had a confused user about it that I've seen...
23:52:19amiconnThe backlight settings themselves are of course excluded in the stock Ondio buuild, in order to not confuse users
23:52:33n1spetur: that or \nopt{ondio}
23:53:27pixelmapetur: there is a UseOption HAVE_BACKLIGHT (at least I saw one in the c200 platform file)
23:53:28*n1s got 5.45 on the beast with ata poweroff and clocks turned off to unused modules
23:53:55 Quit fml ("CGI:IRC")
23:54:12 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
23:54:17Lloreann1s: Compared to what in the OF?
23:54:19 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
23:54:33amiconnThe very few users with a modded Ondio are certainly able to figure out the lamp plugin without manual ;)
23:54:51n1sLlorean: I haven't tested but they quote a 12.30 music playback time
23:54:57amiconnSo \nopt{ondio} sounds like a good solution
23:55:14 Join leox [0] (
23:55:40pixelmawhy not \opt{HAVE_BACKLIGHT} ?
23:55:58Lloreann1s: I was just curious what condition your battery's in.
23:56:14amiconnPissedSoap: Does that work?
23:56:14 Quit PissedSoap ("CGI:IRC")
23:56:24amiconnErr, pixelma
23:56:24pixelmathis one was manually added to the platform files (is not automatically generated)
23:56:32n1sLlorean: ah, anyways it is one hour better than my lat test :)
23:56:53n1s(which was without ata power off and the clock gating stuff)
23:57:34LloreanAh, well that's good at least. :)

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