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| 00:14:27 | soap | (I know it is an older discussion) but I think you could rework the who paragraph to be more like "There are two ways Rockbox can attempt to use USB connection. The default way is to try to mount your \dap{} as a hard drive. If you don't want Rockbox to mount your \dap{} as a hard drive hold \ActionStdUsbCharge{ while inserting your USB cable. |
| 00:14:37 | soap | *use a |
| 00:16:36 | soap | "You do not need to hold \ActionStdUsbCharge{} while inserting the USB cable if you are attempting to charge from a wall or vehicle charger. Only if attempting to charge with a computer's USB port. |
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| 00:20:05 | | Quit XavierGr () |
| 00:20:28 | pixelma | that's mentioning charging again... maybe it's really worth it to devide that into two: one for the Ondio and the other for the rest that actually try to charge via USB |
| 00:21:09 | | Quit spiorf ("Non so cosa voglio, ma lo riconosco se lo vedo") |
| 00:24:42 | soap | Yes, I hadn't looked but assumed a division would need to be made between USB powerable and USB chargeable in the manual definitions if it didn't already exist. |
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| 00:28:43 | pixelma | I hoped somehow that this is avoidable with a generic description (maybe it doesn't work) |
| 00:29:04 | BigBambi | soap: I like the idea though, with a charge/power split |
| 00:31:01 | soap | A generic description defeats someone using (the 1%er) the search command for "charge" |
| 00:31:32 | BigBambi | Yes, it may be better to just split them |
| 00:31:57 | soap | Something I think is important (but not like I've gotten off my ass to do it myself) is to rework many passages with search phrases in mind. |
| 00:32:06 | BigBambi | yep |
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| 00:36:15 | pixelma | if someone searches the Ondio manual for charger (s)he'll find too much :( |
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| 00:41:59 | Biiaru | ...is my ipod supposed to reboot into disk mode when i plug it into usb? o_O |
| 00:42:10 | Biiaru | i assume that's not... default behavior. |
| 00:43:57 | pixelma | it is default behaviour since Rockbox doesn't have own USB support yet |
| 00:44:02 | Biiaru | ah. |
| 00:44:05 | Biiaru | okay then |
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| 01:00 |
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| 01:14:21 | Davide-NYC | anyone with a gigabeat FX want to test a patch? |
| 01:14:42 | Davide-NYC | I *think* I did this correctly but I wanted to make sure |
| 01:14:52 | jhMikeS | what's it do? |
| 01:15:41 | Davide-NYC | It checks 2 sensors per touch-cross on the gbfx instead of just the outer most. |
| 01:16:07 | Davide-NYC | I think it works fine but I'm not entirely sure |
| 01:16:18 | Davide-NYC | It *should* make the touch-cross less "finicky" |
| 01:17:15 | jhMikeS | Wasn't aware you had an FX (or why you'd care to change this if you don't :) |
| 01:17:35 | Davide-NYC | I have one. |
| 01:17:43 | Davide-NYC | It's the wife's |
| 01:18:01 | Davide-NYC | I just got a GBS yesterday, haven't tey RBed it. |
| 01:18:09 | Davide-NYC | THat's next on the agenda for this evening. |
| 01:18:12 | Davide-NYC | :-) |
| 01:18:28 | jhMikeS | once the BL is in place, it's drag and drop from there |
| 01:18:56 | Davide-NYC | jhMikeS: do you have a GBFX? |
| 01:19:04 | jhMikeS | yes |
| 01:19:20 | jhMikeS | FX+S |
| 01:19:21 | Davide-NYC | Can you test this trivial patch and tell me if it is actually doing anything? |
| 01:19:24 | Davide-NYC | http://pastebin.com/d74738045 |
| 01:21:27 | jhMikeS | the point is to detect the direction is either line registers? |
| 01:21:40 | jhMikeS | *direction if |
| 01:21:50 | | Part toffe82_ |
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| 01:24:24 | jhMikeS | Davide-NYC: I've got something going here I've gotta wait for to finish so right after that. |
| 01:24:50 | Davide-NYC | Thanks. BTW: I grabbed the info from the wiki as pointed out to me by markun. |
| 01:30:17 | * | Davide-NYC thinks he can "feel" the difference but does not know how to confirm it. |
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| 01:42:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 01:50:49 | jhMikeS | Davide-NYC: about to test |
| 01:50:58 | kugel|away | anyone familiar with the smooth_resize stuff? |
| 01:52:28 | | Nick kugel|away is now known as kugel (n=chatzill@e178091084.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 01:53:30 | soap | Davide-NYC, you could always modify half the buttons to more easily compare "feel" |
| 01:54:01 | soap | my F is not in my possession right now :( I'd love a "less finicky" pad. |
| 01:54:08 | jhMikeS | Davide-NYC: It seems a little more responsive to the press |
| 01:54:22 | Davide-NYC | jhMikeS: right? That's what I thought. |
| 01:54:58 | Davide-NYC | Since it's very subtle and many people have complained (by many I mean three or four) maybe you should just commit this tiny patch? |
| 01:55:05 | | Quit ompaul (Client Quit) |
| 01:55:36 | Davide-NYC | markun: ping |
| 01:55:42 | jhMikeS | complaining about have to be too precise? |
| 01:56:26 | Davide-NYC | Also take into account that many people (mostly women) have longer nails and find the crosspad "finiky"/ |
| 01:56:50 | Davide-NYC | My wife was the main reason for me pursuing this change. |
| 01:56:57 | jhMikeS | now that's just sexist! :p |
| 01:57:27 | moos | hehe :) |
| 01:57:30 | Davide-NYC | word. |
| 01:57:43 | * | Llorean is apparently the only person who doesn't find the pad finicky. :( |
| 01:58:00 | | Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:58:08 | * | Davide-NYC still things Llorean is a robot. |
| 01:58:09 | * | moos really prefer the beast's pad, by far |
| 01:59:59 | Llorean | But since that patch seems to still leave a deadzone between center and the directions, I doubt it's going to be problematic. |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:30 | Llorean | If all the sensors were active I'd be worried about the potential for people with "larger" fingers accidentally hitting directions when trying for center, but this still leaves a deadzone if I understand correctly? |
| 02:00:37 | Davide-NYC | I left the innermost ring of sensors dead by design. I'm a genius! ;-) |
| 02:01:05 | jhMikeS | here's a cleaner way: http://pastebin.com/m76eb8149 |
| 02:01:07 | Davide-NYC | False center positive is absolutely not a problem with this |
| 02:01:45 | jhMikeS | I was checking for that and didn't have a problem |
| 02:02:03 | Llorean | jhMikeS: I was in the middle of typing that very thing up to ask if it'd work the way I expected it to. :) |
| 02:02:18 | Davide-NYC | What is the point of every first IF in your example? (I don;t understand it) |
| 02:02:47 | Llorean | Davide-NYC: They're on - lines. |
| 02:03:09 | Davide-NYC | doh! |
| 02:03:25 | * | Davide-NYC give back his genius remark |
| 02:06:37 | | Quit ender` (" The last time someone listened to a Bush, a bunch of people wandered in the desert for 40 years.") |
| 02:07:19 | Davide-NYC | jhMikeS: please use your magical commit powers! |
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| 02:10:44 | kugel | can someone look at this? (especially the FIXME part) http://pastebin.com/m2f1e99f9 |
| 02:11:20 | moos | Davide-NYC: let's the beast play rockbox, and you will see all the jhMikeS magical powers ;) |
| 02:11:33 | Davide-NYC | am doing |
| 02:11:57 | kugel | It's a function from pictureflow btw |
| 02:12:40 | Davide-NYC | Is there / has there been any talk of scalable fonts? |
| 02:13:05 | | Quit Falafel (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/") |
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| 02:14:14 | * | kugel got it |
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| 02:15:42 | webguest31 | Hi all, I am having problems registering on the forums. It won't play the whole audio file for the audio verification. Someone help please? |
| 02:15:44 | Llorean | Davide-NYC: This has been talked on many, many times. |
| 02:16:33 | Llorean | webguest31: In my tests it played the whole file. Are you certain the file isn't completing? |
| 02:16:42 | * | kugel doesn't need scalabe fonts, anti-aliased would be enough ;) |
| 02:17:07 | * | kugel wonders if any dev has seriously looked at the patch |
| 02:18:05 | Davide-NYC | Llorean: What's the consensus on scalable fonts? (please save me the 15 minutes) |
| 02:18:13 | Llorean | Davide-NYC: They aren't wanted. |
| 02:18:31 | webguest31 | Llorean: I've tried both the popup window and the direct link, the popup window only gives me three letters, and when I try it throuh windows media player 11, it gets to four, says an error has occured and stops. |
| 02:18:53 | Llorean | webguest31: I've just confirmed it works for me. This means, unfortunately, that it's most likely a problem with the software on your PC> |
| 02:20:04 | webguest31 | Llorean: ah. Can you register me? |
| 02:20:16 | Llorean | I'm the forum administrator. If you'd like to send me a private message with your desired username, email address, and password, I can create your account for you. |
| 02:20:28 | * | kugel got pictureflow to actually resize \o/ |
| 02:20:40 | jhMikeS | Davide-NYC: i have no editor on hand that like the credits file though :\ |
| 02:20:59 | | Quit moos ("good night") |
| 02:21:00 | kugel | Isn't he allready in it? |
| 02:21:11 | jhMikeS | no |
| 02:21:16 | Davide-NYC | jhMikeS: huh? |
| 02:21:40 | webguest31 | Private message? Is this an IRC thing? |
| 02:21:59 | jhMikeS | Check it out |
| 02:22:15 | Biiaru | is the duration bar not moving a known issue when playing spcs? or does that work for everyone else? |
| 02:22:50 | Biiaru | or does that have to do with seeking? |
| 02:23:28 | Llorean | webguest31: Yes. |
| 02:24:13 | jhMikeS | someone else should fix that then, I don't want to corrupt it |
| 02:24:19 | webguest31 | Llorean: Ah. How do I do it? There's a combo box abouv the form, is it in here? |
| 02:25:04 | jhMikeS | I try to open as UTF-8 and it's still whines about it not being 1252 |
| 02:25:13 | Llorean | webguest31: I really wouldn't know how to talk you through it. You would be better served by using a real IRC client rather than the web-based one. |
| 02:25:46 | Biiaru | aha, it's working now |
| 02:25:52 | Biiaru | it wasn't working for the first few tracks, but now it is |
| 02:25:53 | Biiaru | odd |
| 02:26:06 | Biiaru | i'd also like to say that i'm loving rockbox so far :) |
| 02:26:10 | webguest31 | Llorean: if it helps the box has querey, whois and kick |
| 02:26:40 | | Join webguest52 [0] (n=459abb5a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-d6fd1a5f2c18a552) |
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| 02:27:22 | | Quit webguest52 (Client Quit) |
| 02:27:23 | Llorean | webguest31: Well, first you'll need to actually register. You can't send private messages without registering. |
| 02:27:54 | Llorean | After which you'll wish to query me. |
| 02:28:33 | webguest31 | Llorean: ah. Can I have your email address then? |
| 02:29:47 | jhMikeS | If anyone would be so kind as to fix up the credits...:) |
| 02:30:33 | Llorean | jhMikeS: What name do I need to add? |
| 02:30:50 | | Join _caf [0] (n=sdfsdf@pa-217-129-57-83.netvisao.pt) |
| 02:30:52 | jhMikeS | Davide Gentile (I'm pretty sure) |
| 02:31:12 | jhMikeS | Davide-NYC: spell check that please :) |
| 02:31:37 | Davide-NYC | aw man, are you giving me credit for that tiny patch? (the spelling is correct) |
| 02:31:44 | * | Davide-NYC blushes |
| 02:32:01 | Davide-NYC | I also made some icons for the recording statusbar back int he day |
| 02:32:24 | jhMikeS | yes, I used those and forgot to add then |
| 02:32:28 | webguest31 | Llorean: Please repeat if that was you, it played the new message sound, but nothing new came up. Or is it not in the fmain frame? |
| 02:32:42 | Davide-NYC | Which set of instructions should I follow for the GBS installation? |
| 02:33:00 | Davide-NYC | I use windows |
| 02:33:13 | Llorean | jhMikeS: Okay, should be done. |
| 02:33:29 | Llorean | webguest31: it will show in another tab, if you can read it. |
| 02:33:49 | _caf | hello, quick question: does anyone knows what is te normal utilization of the CORE0 in a sansa when rockbox is idle ???? |
| 02:34:40 | Llorean | _caf: I assume you're the person who just posted on the forum? |
| 02:34:56 | jhMikeS | Llorean: thanks |
| 02:35:25 | Llorean | jhMikeS: I hope I didn't break formatting. I just decided to trust the text editor I've always used. |
| 02:35:26 | _caf | ops... yes.... im lookin in the source code.... |
| 02:35:48 | _caf | and it seems a bit obsessive to me :S |
| 02:36:50 | * | jhMikeS 's very first-ever patch that LinusN committed: http://rafb.net/p/p1FJ2g49.html |
| 02:37:03 | Llorean | jhMikeS: You might be able to answer _caf's question. |
| 02:37:03 | webguest31 | Llorean: replied to your private message |
| 02:37:20 | Llorean | webguest31: You can't send private messages until you register. Your reply did not come through. |
| 02:37:45 | jhMikeS | _caf: not much. I can measure sleeping 9999 out of 10000 microseconds per tick |
| 02:38:21 | jhMikeS | it's 9995-9999 more normally depending but it's quite small |
| 02:38:26 | webguest31 | Llorean: oh. Can you send me your email address then? |
| 02:38:37 | Llorean | webguest31: Why don't you just register? |
| 02:39:39 | Llorean | Pick a nick other than webguest31 by typing "/nick Name" where name is the name you wish to be called |
| 02:39:48 | Llorean | Then follow the registration instructions you were given when you connected. |
| 02:40:02 | | Quit Seed ("cu, Andre") |
| 02:40:03 | webguest31 | Llorean: Why register? I probably wouldn't login very much, and all this does is make it so I can send one private message |
| 02:40:34 | _caf | jhmikes: thanks for the reply, if so.... what is the meaning of Idle CORE(0) 0.0 ????? doesnt this mean 100% usage ??? |
| 02:41:06 | Llorean | webguest31: Because you registering means that I don't have to give out my email address to a complete stranger. |
| 02:42:08 | Llorean | I prefer not to give it out unless it is necessary, and I don't see it as being necessary in this situation. |
| 02:42:14 | webguest31 | Llorean: If I register, what difference does it make? |
| 02:42:26 | | Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 02:42:39 | Llorean | webguest31: If you register you can PM me the information necessary for me to create your account on the forums. |
| 02:42:50 | jhMikeS | _caf: you mean in the "View OS Stacks" screen? |
| 02:43:17 | _caf | yes |
| 02:43:35 | jhMikeS | that's just the largest % usage of a stack used for idling the core at particular times |
| 02:43:55 | webguest31 | Llorean: But I can give you my info here. Or are messages with the intended recipients name at the beggining still logged? |
| 02:44:03 | | Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-237-178.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 02:44:27 | Llorean | webguest31: You are in a channel. When you type my name in front of it the message is still sent to the channel, it just causes my client to notify me that someone spoke to me in the channel |
| 02:44:31 | Llorean | It is visible to everyone, and logged. |
| 02:44:58 | _caf | jhMikeS: LOLOLOLOLOL , thanks for your answer, im hacking zxbox a little so that it doesnt lose keys in the games, and that was making me crazy |
| 02:46:55 | webguest31 | Llorean: oh. I don't terribly mind my email address being visible. I have 2 email addresses, and would change it to the one I primarily use, which I of course wouldn't put here |
| 02:47:36 | Llorean | Well you'd also have to give me the password you desire to use for the account, although you can immediately change it after you first log in. |
| 02:48:02 | Llorean | Or you can ask me to pick one for you, and I can choose a few random letters, private message it to you, and you can sign in and change it. |
| 02:48:04 | kugel | Llorean: Couldn't you just go into a random, empty channel? |
| 02:48:30 | webguest31 | Llorean: Yes. See? |
| 02:49:00 | Llorean | webguest31: I have no idea what statement your "yes" responds to. |
| 02:49:41 | Llorean | kugel: It takes just as little time for him to register. He could've done it a dozen times in the amount of time we've talked. I really don't understand what his objection to it is. |
| 02:50:17 | webguest31 | Llorean: Sorry. I was agreeing to your last two statements. |
| 02:51:28 | kugel | Llorean: I understand. I just wanted to add another solution (which whould save time for both of you) |
| 02:52:29 | | Quit Biiaru (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:53:49 | webguest31 | Llorean Kugel: I don't as much prefer the IRC page. I have to use another screen reader to get on here, primarily because of the dynamic content, and I don't install much anymore, I recently had a lot of adware attacks and stuff. |
| 02:59:49 | | Part Llorean |
| 03:00 |
| 03:04:17 | | Quit daven (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 03:06:36 | Davide-NYC | AFK for 30min |
| 03:07:46 | * | flyback is really fed up with tragic dreams and being tormented over events 16 yrs ago :/ |
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| 03:08:57 | | Quit _caf () |
| 03:09:46 | jhMikeS | Horscht: around? |
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| 03:38:50 | Davide-NYC | jhMikeS: can you help clarify the installation procedure for me under windows? Should I follow the instructions on the GigabeatSInfo page (windows section) or the GigbeatSIntallation page? |
| 03:41:41 | webguest31 | Also, any progress on cracking the zune encryption? I've heard it's similar to the gigabeat s? |
| 03:42:30 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:43:05 | | Quit DerPapst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 03:44:43 | krazykit | webguest31, any progress would be in the Zune thread in the forums. |
| 03:44:53 | Davide-NYC | Argh, Nevermind. I'm just going to wait until the installation procedure is a bit more "dumbed down". |
| 03:46:19 | webguest31 | Which I can't register for... Why, windows media player?!?!?! |
| 03:46:28 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 03:46:33 | webguest31 | Davide-NYC: What's the problem? |
| 03:46:41 | | Quit BlakeJohnson86 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 03:47:41 | Davide-NYC | webguest31: the windows installation instruction in the wiki involve formatting my HD which I would like to avoid. The other intructions are linux only I think. |
| 03:48:18 | kugel | is it possible that a tagcache search gives wrong results when searching tracks for a specific album? |
| 03:48:29 | webguest31 | Davide-Nyc: Oh! You can't just upload the files? Strange... |
| 03:48:37 | kugel | which e.g. causes pictureflow to display the tracklist in the wrong direction |
| 03:49:07 | kugel | s/direction/order |
| 03:50:54 | kugel | an example: pf searches for track titlles with this command: "rb->tagcache_search_add_filter(&tcs, tag_album, album[slide_index].seek);" |
| 03:51:17 | kugel | but tcs.result returns the titles backwards |
| 03:52:02 | kugel | I guess there's only 1 person who knows that :/ |
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| 03:56:27 | webguest31 | I'm out all, thanks. I may try copying the audio file to my mobile device and see if it will play it, for whatever reason |
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| 04:00 |
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| 04:03:30 | Veto | Hi? |
| 04:04:22 | Veto | Can somebody help me ? |
| 04:08:31 | krazykit | only if you say what you need help with |
| 04:09:17 | advcomp2019 | and sending private messages does not help too |
| 04:10:08 | Veto | Sorry I don't really know how to use the iirc |
| 04:11:04 | Veto | Well... this i my question : Why when I try to install rockbox on my sansa view the installer can't find my device? |
| 04:12:12 | advcomp2019 | rockbox has not been ported to the view |
| 04:13:14 | advcomp2019 | ported = written |
| 04:13:51 | Veto | ok.... weird.. because somebody says he can on Cnet.. well ok. Is there something else to do if i want to add somes games on my sansa view? |
| 04:15:21 | krazykit | Veto, this is an on-topic channel about #rockbox. that question is off-topic. |
| 04:16:30 | Veto | well.. sorry.. |
| 04:17:22 | Veto | Is there a version that will come out for the View? (hope this one is on-topic) |
| 04:18:28 | advcomp2019 | you can look at the new ports in the forums for that info |
| 04:18:39 | Veto | ok thanks.. |
| 04:20:47 | | Quit borges ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]") |
| 04:22:29 | Veto | Pretty hard to understand off what there talking about but what this firmware ( http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=13562.0 ) will add to my mp3 ? |
| 04:26:06 | Veto | Is the firemware i needed to install the rockbox? |
| 04:28:43 | | Part pixelma |
| 04:29:40 | soap | no |
| 04:29:52 | soap | Rockbox for the Sansa View does not exist, Veto |
| 04:30:24 | advcomp2019 | Veto, they are basically getting the info right now in the forum |
| 04:30:47 | Veto | So they will have a rockbox soon? |
| 04:30:54 | Veto | for the view? |
| 04:30:59 | soap | Maybe, maybe not |
| 04:31:07 | soap | you can't predict these things. |
| 04:31:20 | Veto | alright. |
| 04:31:42 | soap | It will happen (IF it happens) when someone with the skills, the knowledge (if said knowledge is available) and the time does it. |
| 04:31:48 | soap | that someone could be you. |
| 04:31:55 | Veto | O.O |
| 04:32:59 | Davide-NYC | LOL |
| 04:33:01 | Veto | I'm so begging and for me reading english is pretty hard .. that's not my language actuaally it's pretty hard too talk with you xD |
| 04:33:09 | Veto | it's* |
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| 05:05:27 | Veto | Is tthe Rockbox could broke my MP3? |
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| 05:18:46 | kugel | lol |
| 05:19:04 | * | kugel finished http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8335 btw |
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| 05:43:52 | * | flyback doesn't think he's ever going to find a girl he can open up to again :/ |
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| 06:19:44 | tdtooke | linuxstb_, you there? |
| 06:20:42 | tdtooke | well, if you are I apparently signed off just as you were trying to tell me something before and what you were saying is cut off |
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| 07:48:24 | amiconn | mo0ning |
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| 08:30:48 | Horscht | jhMikeS, you called? |
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| 08:53:02 | Buschel | moin moin |
| 08:54:23 | Buschel | Horscht: as you've got an iPod Video, too: does your iPod mute when reducing the volume to -58dB? |
| 08:54:38 | Llorean | It didn't used to. |
| 08:54:44 | Horscht | hm.... just a moment |
| 08:54:52 | Llorean | I think that's always been broken. |
| 08:54:55 | pixelma | I adapted sokoban to the c200's screen and needed to invent a new colour scheme because that greenish one didn't work at all at 5x5 tilesize. Then I decided to make new graphics for all (including some more sizes so every screen gets the biggest graphics possible). Would anyone object to change them for all - comparison picture can be found at http://home.infocity.de/m.arnold/temp/sokoban_new.png |
| 08:55:24 | Horscht | Buschel, any specific rev? |
| 08:55:35 | Buschel | Llorean: the behaviour i alwas had was -57dB = audible, -58dB = mute. |
| 08:55:41 | Horscht | or will a week old one do? |
| 08:55:48 | Buschel | Horscht: no just some current one (the last days) |
| 08:56:14 | Llorean | Buschel: I seem to recall that the lowest setting was still audible, but maybe it got fixed when I wasn't looking |
| 08:56:28 | Llorean | pixelma: I assume the new graphics are the ones on the right? (Haven't played it in ages). If so, I quite like them. |
| 08:56:42 | Horscht | Buschel, r17404 does mute at -58 |
| 08:57:09 | Horscht | it even shows a mute logo in the main menu |
| 08:57:46 | pixelma | the m:robe100's one isn't bigger but there's a slight change in appearence (the box on the spot) and monochromes screens also use external bitmaps for it, currently the graphics are drawn with lines, rectangles etc. |
| 08:57:53 | Buschel | and 17507? which i used (with some lokal changes, which is the reason for asking) |
| 08:58:18 | pixelma | Llorean: yes, right's the new on (the c200's doesn't exist in SVN yet) |
| 08:58:27 | pixelma | s/on/one |
| 08:59:17 | Llorean | pixelma: That factored into my assumption. :) |
| 08:59:31 | pixelma | I wonder how the current style with the green and red works for colour bllind |
| 08:59:45 | pixelma | *blind |
| 09:00 |
| 09:00:31 | Horscht | Buschel, I don't have that one at the moment, checking out |
| 09:00:47 | pixelma | Llorean: and thanks for your opinion :) |
| 09:00:55 | Llorean | pixelma: I seem to recall someone who's around regularly being colourblind, but I can't remember who. |
| 09:01:02 | pixelma | markun |
| 09:01:03 | amiconn | markun |
| 09:01:18 | pixelma | (wake up call) ;) |
| 09:02:51 | Buschel | amiconn: could spend a small amount of time of fs#9000? |
| 09:03:29 | amiconn | Buschel: I just took a quick look. The patch looks like it won't compile on targets without large iram |
| 09:03:40 | Buschel | ?why? |
| 09:04:16 | amiconn | It's missing #define ICODE_ATTR_MPC_LARGE_IRAM in the #else part |
| 09:04:26 | | Quit linuxstb__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:04:40 | Buschel | oops, was sure i didn't miss it... |
| 09:04:46 | * | amiconn wonders whether Buschel tests compilation at all |
| 09:04:54 | Buschel | nevertheless you could test it for your x5? |
| 09:05:31 | * | Buschel did this late last night after a long working day... |
| 09:05:43 | pixelma | Llorean: and now I realise that this also needs changes in the manual... in the c200's of course, maybe new screenshots for other manuals as well, with cabbiev2 style? |
| 09:07:28 | Llorean | Too bad there's not a "manual screenshots" build target that builds a special case of the sim, 'eh?: ) |
| 09:08:19 | Horscht | Buschel, plain 17507 also mutes on -58 |
| 09:08:38 | Horscht | but it seems like it does on purpose |
| 09:08:47 | Buschel | Horscht: interesting, gotta research |
| 09:09:17 | Horscht | because going to the main menu with -58db, you can see a small mute-symbol in the status bar |
| 09:09:32 | Horscht | where the volume level used to be |
| 09:09:36 | Buschel | Horscth: but can you "hear" it muting? |
| 09:09:51 | pixelma | Llorean: I have almost all sims here (and prepared) that I'd need for that... |
| 09:09:52 | Horscht | as in? |
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| 09:09:59 | Horscht | -57 has sound, -58 not |
| 09:10:13 | amiconn | Buschel: The patch slows down decoding on coldfire |
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| 09:10:47 | amiconn | SVN: 617% realtime, patched: 590% realtime |
| 09:11:43 | Buschel | amiconn: is this caused by the use of iram or the re-ordering within the synthesis? you could check via not enabling the ICODE_ATTR... |
| 09:12:07 | Horscht | i can hear it mute from -57 to -58 if that's what you're asking, Buschel |
| 09:12:14 | pixelma | Llorean: but your kind of suggestion sounds nice :) |
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| 09:14:02 | Buschel | Horscht: that was exactly what I meant :o) so, I really gotta check what's going on with my target |
| 09:14:35 | Horscht | yours doesn't? |
| 09:15:14 | Buschel | no, but i've got local changes which i didn't thought would have direct effect on this behaviour −− but they have |
| 09:15:28 | amiconn | Buschel: Patch without ICODE: down to 577% realtime |
| 09:17:16 | Buschel | amiconn: so, i better make a patch without the re-ordering (which doesn't have any performance effect on PP5022) and with iram-usage. |
| 09:17:30 | Buschel | amiconn: thanks for your time! |
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| 09:21:20 | amiconn | That would need testing as well |
| 09:21:48 | amiconn | On coldfire, optimisations involving iram for code are rather tricky. |
| 09:21:54 | Buschel | amiconn: of course, that will be the time when i kindly ask for your support again ;o) |
| 09:22:23 | amiconn | First, using iram for code has much less impact than using it for data, because coldfire has an instruction cache but no data cache |
| 09:23:25 | amiconn | Then, moving functions to iram, or even shuffling around functions, can change performance (positive or negative), due to cache aliasing of the remaining functions in sdram |
| 09:23:38 | amiconn | The coldfire instruction cache is direct mapped. |
| 09:24:43 | Buschel | the internal removal was an experiment which lead to smaller bin size −− as i wasn't sure whether the code fitted into the coldfires iram i thought it is a good idea to use the "smaller" code |
| 09:24:46 | amiconn | The PP cache is set associative so aliasing effects are much less likely |
| 09:25:30 | n1s | amiconn: could we do that to the coldfire cache too? |
| 09:25:51 | amiconn | Do what? |
| 09:26:14 | n1s | set it to an associative mode instead of direct mapped? |
| 09:26:36 | amiconn | You can't set the cache mode. "set associative" is a property |
| 09:27:01 | amiconn | (as opposed to the two extremes "fully associative" and "direct mapped") |
| 09:27:07 | n1s | ah |
| 09:27:58 | n1s | (there's an issue with vorbis performance jumping +- 20% with unrelated changes in the core thought to be related to the cache aliasing) |
| 09:28:10 | amiconn | Very possible |
| 09:28:50 | n1s | amiconn: any ideas on how to find such an aliased function and how to make it not be aliased (using some align attribute perhaps)? |
| 09:30:29 | amiconn | We can't avoid such aliasing across everything. |
| 09:31:37 | amiconn | Within a codec, it's possible to carefully shuffle functions around, but we can never guarantee that calls from codecs to the core or vice versa won't cause cache aliasing |
| 09:32:15 | amiconn | Buschel: I don't think that you need to save binsize. Coldfire code is usually more compact than arm code |
| 09:32:54 | amiconn | Besides, we could switch to the 32/80 distribution on MCF5250 as well (but I don't see the need for that just now) |
| 09:33:43 | amiconn | Erm, 48/80 of course |
| 09:37:30 | amiconn | Right now there's 5.5KB of spare IRAM in mpc.codec on MCF5250 |
| 09:38:40 | Buschel | amiconn: if the data in iram is so much faster we could test another thing in mpc -> 1st) 48/80 distribution, 2nd) reduce MPC_DECODER_MEMSIZE in decoder.h to 4096, 3rd) using IBSS_ATTR for the array Speicher[] in mpc_decoder.c |
| 09:39:37 | Buschel | amiconn: this is the buffer from which the demuxing is done (huffman-decoding etc.) |
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| 09:49:26 | * | amiconn notices that musepack is already more efficient on coldfire than on PP |
| 09:50:20 | Buschel | yes, since the latest changes |
| 09:51:01 | amiconn | ...even taking cpu clock into account (single core PP) on MCF5250 vs. PP5022 |
| 09:51:18 | * | amiconn needs to compare with MCF5249 and PP5020 |
| 09:51:53 | amiconn | I get 358% realtime on mini G2 for the same file that I used on X5 |
| 09:54:59 | Buschel | which is ~22,3MHz on PP5020 and ~20,1MHz on MCF5250. With my testfile i get ~22.6MHz on PP5022 −− but this of course scales with the file tiself |
| 09:55:02 | Buschel | *itself |
| 09:56:51 | amiconn | mini G2 is PP5022 |
| 09:57:12 | * | amiconn should probably also test PP5002 |
| 10:00 |
| 10:04:07 | | Nick JdGordon|afk is now known as JdGordon (i=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 10:05:47 | amiconn | Buschel: ipod G2 (PP5002): 241% realtime, H10 (PP5020): 301% realtime, H180 (MCF5249): 484% realtime |
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| 10:15:41 | Buschel | amiconn: the PP-family scales quite a lot (PP5022: 355% realtime with lates changes, ~330% before)... is the mcf5249 the same as mcf5250 except the iram size? |
| 10:16:25 | amiconn | Regarding performance it is |
| 10:17:05 | amiconn | Other than that there are several differences, e.g. MCF5249 core voltage is 1.2V, while MCF5250 uses 1.2V |
| 10:17:43 | amiconn | PP5020 is also the same as PP5022 performance wise except the iram size |
| 10:17:49 | Llorean | You mean 1.8, right? |
| 10:17:53 | Llorean | For the first? |
| 10:18:01 | amiconn | err, off course |
| 10:18:42 | amiconn | PP5002 is slower when using sdram because of its broken cache. If you test with iram code, it's also identical to PP502x |
| 10:18:53 | amiconn | Iram code + data of course |
| 10:19:25 | amiconn | ^^ *of* course |
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| 10:25:35 | Buschel | amiconn: i did some quick |
| 10:25:39 | Buschel | *ahem |
| 10:26:32 | Buschel | amiconn: i did some quick-n-dirty "pimping" of the fs#9000-patch. but i cannot doe test-compilations on this pc... could you give http://www.pastebin.org/36537 a quick check on your x5? |
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| 10:26:59 | * | Buschel slaps the touchpad on his notebook |
| 10:27:35 | Buschel | always hitting it when i do not want to |
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| 10:33:58 | markun | Llorean: which style with green and red do I have to look at? |
| 10:35:05 | markun | do I -> should I |
| 10:36:08 | Llorean | markun: Pixelma linked an image with several screenshots of Sokoban and was concerned about the original green background contrasting with the red. |
| 10:36:46 | Llorean | markun: http://home.infocity.de/m.arnold/temp/sokoban_new.png |
| 10:37:33 | pixelma | you could also check on your gigabeat, the green/red is the current SVN version |
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| 10:37:43 | markun | the ones with white background are much clearer, but I can also see the ones with red and green |
| 10:38:10 | pixelma | ah interesting, thanks |
| 10:38:25 | Llorean | markun: What about the bottom two in the leftmost column? |
| 10:39:05 | markun | they look the same as all the other color version. Is there something different? |
| 10:39:45 | Llorean | Nothing particular, I suppose. |
| 10:39:46 | pixelma | on the gigabeat it's currently also smaller than possible because no-one bothered to invent some in-between sizes |
| 10:40:29 | markun | some sokoban games use different size tiles depending on the game, that would also be cool |
| 10:40:45 | markun | depending on the size of the level I mean |
| 10:40:59 | JdGordon | drawn on the fly? |
| 10:41:10 | Llorean | Vector Graphics! |
| 10:41:33 | markun | JdGordon: no, just store a few sizes |
| 10:41:51 | pixelma | yeah, I know. But for now I just wanted to get them as big as can be with fixed sizes (and add a c200 version) |
| 10:42:34 | markun | pixelma: nice improvement on the grayscale ones |
| 10:42:53 | markun | you can't save a level currently, can you? |
| 10:43:00 | pixelma | that was harder than it looks like |
| 10:43:05 | pixelma | you can |
| 10:43:30 | bluebrother | pixelma: slightly different, but I noticed the default backdrop being dithered on 4bpp targets several times. Wouldn't it be better to have that use native greys? |
| 10:44:09 | amiconn | bluebrother: The backdrop is dithered using all native greylevels |
| 10:44:23 | markun | pixelma: perhaps we could rotate the levels on the portraid targets, then we can use the same tile size.. |
| 10:44:27 | amiconn | And I don't know of any 4bpp targets... |
| 10:44:32 | markun | on the gigabeat as the ipod for example |
| 10:44:34 | pixelma | bluebrother: the default backdrop in the menus? It uses the native grey, but I dithered them before so I could make it lighter |
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| 10:45:23 | bluebrother | ah, ok. |
| 10:46:09 | pixelma | markun: I don't think it's worth it - e200 already can use the same tile size as H300 (with the stats box at the bottom) and gigabeat gets quite close now (12x12 vs. 14x14 tiles) |
| 10:46:13 | * | JdGordon thinks the new disktidy is done! |
| 10:46:38 | markun | I'm emailing a bit with the iriver t10 hacker. He's also interested in working together to port rockbox to the samsung based irivers. |
| 10:46:48 | * | amiconn wants persistent options in reversi |
| 10:46:57 | amiconn | ...and a better AI |
| 10:47:19 | JdGordon | does disktidy have a manual entry? or only the wiki? |
| 10:47:50 | pixelma | yes, I see a disktidy.tex |
| 10:48:19 | pixelma | very short but it's there |
| 10:48:57 | JdGordon | any chance you can fix it up for the new version please? |
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| 10:49:50 | JdGordon | patch is at 8637 |
| 10:50:36 | pixelma | I need to prepare a manual update for my sokoban changes too |
| 10:51:04 | markun | Llorean: did you really not understand what the benefit for him would be? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=16878.0 |
| 10:52:37 | markun | 1: not to damage your ears, even though they would get used to a higher volume. 2: no need to buy a preamp. 3: no need to replaygain all your music. |
| 10:52:40 | pixelma | markun: I don't understand it either, especially how that should work? |
| 10:53:09 | Llorean | markun: How would a plugin work though? |
| 10:53:20 | Llorean | You have to manually launch a plugin. You can manually adjust volume. |
| 10:53:37 | Llorean | And setting an equalizer pre-cut (no replaygain necessary) *is* a volume limit. |
| 10:53:41 | bluebrother | markun: I don't understand how this should even work as a plugin. Plus, if you use ReplayGain you can quite decrease the risk of damaging your ears |
| 10:53:50 | Llorean | No need to use replaygain. Pre-cut exists. |
| 10:53:54 | markun | pixelma: how I imagine it is that you choose a volume (on a test signal maybe) which with your current earphones shouldn't damage your hearing too much, the it keeps analyzing the digital audio and when it goes over a threshold the volume gets lowered. |
| 10:54:03 | markun | that's how I imagine it |
| 10:54:16 | markun | Llorean: yes, could be implemented with the pre-cut of course |
| 10:54:26 | * | amiconn doesn't understand this either |
| 10:54:54 | amiconn | There's no fixed limit that will suddenly damage your ears when exceeded |
| 10:55:02 | markun | maybe I just have a strange mind which is trying to make sense from incomprehensible ramblings ;) |
| 10:55:06 | Llorean | So yes, I really don't understand the purpose of it as a plugin as compared to existing options. |
| 10:55:11 | amiconn | Any high volume, applied over some time period, can degrade hearing |
| 10:55:33 | Llorean | Even volumes most people don't consider "high" can damage your hearing if you listen for very extended periods. |
| 10:56:05 | amiconn | So it's generally recommended to listen at low to moderate volume, and then you need no limiter |
| 10:56:09 | markun | yes, but I think the assumption he (and me too) made was that higher volumes damage more |
| 10:56:17 | pixelma | markun: I usually do so too but this was beyond me |
| 10:56:21 | Llorean | Higher volumes do damage more. |
| 10:56:50 | Llorean | But if he's just talking about "limiting like the iPod", you just set precut to say, -12, and you have a set limit. |
| 10:57:03 | Llorean | That's all the iPod is, a "maximum" that's lower than the hardware cap. |
| 10:57:39 | markun | amiconn: but if you have a low volume track and then a high volume track you would need to listen to the first one at a very low level not to get damage during the second one |
| 10:57:41 | bluebrother | also, if the limit is adjustable you'll always run into a situation (like a soft song) that's not loud enough, will increase the limit and forget to lower it afterwards |
| 10:57:58 | markun | bluebrother: or have it dynamic (which I also hate) |
| 10:58:07 | amiconn | markun: Huh? How much difference (in dB) are we talking? |
| 10:58:24 | markun | amiconn: max 10 dB I think, but still |
| 10:58:36 | bluebrother | do we want mature users that can look after themselves or do we want to take every responsibility from them? |
| 10:58:40 | markun | old kraftwerk album and then system of a down |
| 10:59:05 | markun | amiconn: let me check |
| 10:59:07 | bluebrother | there could still a bug causing a loud volume |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:17 | bluebrother | so I think it's much better to keep the user in responsibility |
| 11:00:19 | markun | amiconn: the replaygain values of the albums I was thinking of was actually 16dB appart! |
| 11:00:49 | markun | amiconn: I know you have no use for replaygain, but maybe you can see now that I do ;) |
| 11:00:54 | | Quit homielowe () |
| 11:01:18 | amiconn | That's rather much... I can't tell exactly as I don't use replaygain at all, but I think my albums (spanning 28 years) differ by only ~6dB |
| 11:02:05 | markun | amiconn: autobahn: REPLAYGAIN_ALBUM_GAIN=+4.59 dB toxicity: REPLAYGAIN_ALBUM_GAIN=-10.39 dB |
| 11:02:09 | markun | ah, just 15 dB |
| 11:02:59 | | Nick gregzx is now known as gregzxafk (n=chatzill@dsb212.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 11:03:00 | markun | but autobahn would clip at such a gain, so it's actually +3.90 dB |
| 11:03:32 | pixelma | you have to listen to that song on your way to DevCon ;) |
| 11:03:58 | markun | pixelma: yes, if I drive with petur and gevaerts that will be a lot of fun ;) |
| 11:04:21 | bluebrother | and a lot of autobahn :) |
| 11:07:22 | pixelma | and in the end tell us how many km went by during this song |
| 11:08:14 | JdGordon | amiconn: do you know if the ribbon cable can be easily pulled off the mini2g's main board? |
| 11:08:44 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 11:09:00 | amiconn | Which one? The one connecting the microdrive? |
| 11:10:25 | JdGordon | bah, missed a word.. yes |
| 11:10:59 | amiconn | I tried to pull it, but I didn't succeed |
| 11:11:15 | amiconn | You don't need to pull it in order to replace the drive |
| 11:11:18 | | Join DerDome [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-239-040.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:11:50 | JdGordon | i know.. just trying to get a bit more room |
| 11:11:59 | JdGordon | im farily confident this will fit :p |
| 11:12:03 | JdGordon | fairly* |
| 11:12:10 | JdGordon | I'd like to be 100% certain though :p |
| 11:15:52 | * | amiconn wonders what JdGordon is trying to do |
| 11:17:06 | JdGordon | surprise :p |
| 11:17:47 | bluebrother | putting a 2.5" disk into the mini? |
| 11:18:26 | * | JdGordon was pretty sure everyone was sick of hearing about this already... |
| 11:18:35 | JdGordon | putting a bluetooth transmitter in it |
| 11:18:57 | * | amiconn doubts this will work at all |
| 11:19:05 | amiconn | The mini's case is all-metal |
| 11:19:17 | JdGordon | yeah, i checked.. |
| 11:19:21 | JdGordon | its still works |
| 11:19:39 | JdGordon | fortunatly.. that didnt occur to me untill after i forked out for it :p |
| 11:20:34 | n1s | how much did it cost? |
| 11:20:55 | JdGordon | too much |
| 11:21:32 | * | bluebrother wonders about the use of that |
| 11:22:18 | JdGordon | of what? |
| 11:23:10 | bluebrother | of bluetooth in a dap |
| 11:23:38 | JdGordon | well, I always use BT headphones anyway, so one less battery to keep chardeg, and one less thing in my pocket |
| 11:23:55 | JdGordon | not being wired to the bloody thing is wonderful |
| 11:24:15 | * | n1s would love to go wireless too :) |
| 11:24:17 | Horscht | arent those expensive, though? |
| 11:24:33 | JdGordon | yep |
| 11:24:45 | Horscht | how much? |
| 11:24:56 | Horscht | for a decent set of BT headsets |
| 11:24:59 | JdGordon | phones were $100, xmitter was 50 |
| 11:25:04 | Horscht | ouch |
| 11:25:15 | JdGordon | 6 months ago though.. |
| 11:25:15 | markun | australian dollar? |
| 11:25:21 | JdGordon | when i wasnt a poor uni bum :D |
| 11:25:24 | JdGordon | usd |
| 11:25:43 | Horscht | but is the quality any good? |
| 11:26:07 | JdGordon | my ears are tin anyway so i dunno.. supposedly they are the BT version of decent sonys |
| 11:27:53 | Horscht | thinking about it... i prefer earplugs anyways |
| 11:28:35 | Horscht | lmao: http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-Ety8-Bluetooth-Earphones/dp/B000KK4G00/ref=cm_lmf_img_6 |
| 11:30:12 | markun | Horscht: and they have a cable on them anyway! |
| 11:31:24 | JdGordon | only around the neck though |
| 11:31:46 | Horscht | yes, but that's just as annoying, i'd say |
| 11:32:00 | Horscht | no point in using a wireless technology |
| 11:32:26 | n1s | hmm, then you wold have another analog<->digital conversion... |
| 11:32:55 | n1s | unless JdGordon is doing something really fancy? |
| 11:33:02 | JdGordon | no, im not that smart |
| 11:33:16 | JdGordon | and yes, if you care about your music quality then this may not be for you |
| 11:33:22 | * | JdGordon cant tell the difference though |
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| 11:42:40 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 11:51:46 | Buschel | amiconn: you'd say it's better not to touch the ICODE-stuff for coldfire but only for the PP5022/24? just to make sure there is no loss of performance when doing further changes on the decoder? |
| 11:52:02 | amiconn | no |
| 11:52:21 | amiconn | I just said that iram is much more important for data than for code on coldfire |
| 11:53:01 | Buschel | ok, then it would fine to make a short test of http://www.pastebin.org/36537 |
| 11:53:44 | amiconn | Cache aliasing can hit everytime you change code layout in sdram, be it due to moving functions into/ out of iram, shuffling functions around, or changing functions in size |
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| 11:55:30 | JdGordon | any objections to commiting the new disktidy? |
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| 11:59:45 | markun | JdGordon: what did you change? no longer made it a viewer? |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:02 | JdGordon | yes |
| 12:01:26 | amiconn | Buschel: 565% realtime... |
| 12:02:15 | Buschel | amiconn: slower. so, i will do the change for PP5022/24 only |
| 12:02:37 | bertrik | JdGordon: can you give a link for the new version? |
| 12:02:57 | JdGordon | FS #8637 |
| 12:03:07 | JdGordon | the bug in the last comment is fixed |
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| 12:08:24 | * | Buschel made a simple profiling on mpc-decoder: 25% demux/requant, 25% dct32, 50% dewindowing |
| 12:08:34 | Buschel | will do the same for mp3 now |
| 12:09:00 | * | amiconn will encode his test album to mp2 now |
| 12:09:00 | Buschel | the bad thing is that dewindowing cannot be further optimized −− all asm'ed |
| 12:09:13 | amiconn | Also for coldfire? |
| 12:09:16 | Buschel | yes |
| 12:10:00 | Buschel | but the dct32 isn't yet. i'll check whether the mad dct32 can be adapted to be used in mpc |
| 12:10:35 | | Quit einhirn_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 12:14:59 | amiconn | Encoding will take a while (about twice the playtime) as I'm using Pegase on Amiga |
| 12:15:57 | Buschel | mpc dewindowing does 512 mul's and 480 add's, mpc dct32 does 80 mul's >100 add's, >100 sub's and several shifts per frame |
| 12:17:02 | Buschel | libmad's dct32 claims to use less add's and sub's. need to compare though. |
| 12:17:56 | * | amiconn thought mpc wouldn't use dct |
| 12:18:04 | bertrik | JdGordon: I don't use disktidy a lot, but I hated how it had an if () for every file type. It seems you fixed that so I like it already. Does the total number of lines increase or decrease with the patch? |
| 12:18:11 | Buschel | calc_new_V() is the same as dct32 |
| 12:18:32 | amiconn | I thought mpc is a subband codec, like mp1 and mp2 |
| 12:18:37 | pixelma | hmm... seems it's not possible to play the solution back in sokoban, or am I missing something? I know there was a big overhaul with saving solutions/progress/unlimited undo etc., maybe it was removed during this but the manual still lists buttons for solution playback... |
| 12:18:44 | Buschel | the polyphase filterbank is done via dct32 followed by dewindowing |
| 12:18:47 | * | amiconn doesn't know the details though |
| 12:18:55 | Buschel | it is a pure subband coding |
| 12:21:13 | Buschel | amiconn: the filterbank is nearly identical to mp1/mp2, the implementation of the synthesis filter was tweaked to take further advantage out of symmetries in the synthesis itself |
| 12:23:02 | Buschel | dct32 inputs 32 samples and outputs 32 samples, mpc's dct32 inputs 32 samples and outputs 64 (symmetric) samples. that is what i need to adapt for a performance comparison |
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| 12:26:14 | | Join moos [0] (i=moos@m198.net81-66-127.noos.fr) |
| 12:26:27 | Buschel | maybe libmad's dct32 has advantage over mpc's implementation regarding internal scaling as libmad does only multiply with factor <1 whereas mpc multiplies with up to 10 |
| 12:30:13 | JdGordon | bertrik: its a plugin so big deal re LOC |
| 12:32:08 | * | Buschel will switch to his dev-PC now |
| 12:32:11 | | Quit Buschel () |
| 12:38:37 | bertrik | JdGordon: ok |
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| 13:31:57 | Buschel | interesting: mp3 needs ~6MHz for dct32 (asm) + 13MHz for dewindowing (mostly asm) |
| 13:32:37 | Buschel | mpc needs ~5 MHz for dct32 (little asm) + 12MHz for dewindowing (mostly asm) |
| 13:32:48 | Buschel | both measurements on a PP5022 |
| 13:33:37 | Buschel | that is comparing the mp1/2 synthesis part to mpc synthesis |
| 13:34:34 | * | amiconn wonders how Buschel is measuring this |
| 13:34:44 | bluebrother | hmm. Does charging on the m:robe need booting into the OF for full speed like on the ipods? |
| 13:35:21 | Buschel | amiconn: via evil uncommenting parts (i know that's not the best way, but it works fine) |
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| 13:40:31 | JdGordon | mcuelenaere: hey, you were looking for me yesterday? |
| 13:40:31 | amiconn | Buschel: You can only test on PP5022? |
| 13:40:36 | Buschel | yes |
| 13:40:54 | * | amiconn thinks that codec optimisers need access to several architectures |
| 13:41:52 | * | Buschel just recognizes he compared 64bit-multiplies (mp3) with 32bit-multiplies (mpc) |
| 13:41:56 | Buschel | will retest mpc |
| 13:42:20 | * | amiconn wonders whether he will be allowed access to a beast @devcon |
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| 13:43:44 | mcuelenaere | JdGordon: yes, but uhm I forgot why .. :) |
| 13:43:47 | mcuelenaere | let me check the logs.. |
| 13:43:54 | JdGordon | amiconn: I thought you were thouroly uninterested in the beast? |
| 13:44:20 | amiconn | I don't want one myself, but I'd like to tackle libdemac optimisation for armv6 |
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| 13:45:32 | mcuelenaere | ah I remember; JdGordon: could you boot into Rockbox and go to the debug menu and say me what values you get for IO_CLK_*? |
| 13:46:15 | JdGordon | with a svn build? |
| 13:46:30 | mcuelenaere | doesn't matter |
| 13:46:55 | mcuelenaere | I am trying to figure out why the DSP doesn't interrupt my ZVM while it does on the m:Robe 500.. |
| 13:47:11 | mcuelenaere | or better why I'm not receiving those |
| 13:47:24 | JdGordon | doesnt seem to want to turn on? |
| 13:48:07 | mcuelenaere | you mean your m:robe or the DSP? |
| 13:48:20 | JdGordon | mrobe |
| 13:48:38 | mcuelenaere | mm didn't I break yours last time? |
| 13:49:13 | JdGordon | yeah, but it should have been chargning since thne |
| 13:49:19 | JdGordon | looking for a power cable for it |
| 13:50:56 | JdGordon | yay! ok, batt must be dead... ill do a build and let you know.. |
| 13:50:58 | JdGordon | 5min |
| 13:51:16 | mcuelenaere | ok thanks |
| 13:51:53 | Buschel | ok, when comparing 64-multiplies it's dct32 (mp3: 6MHz (asm), mpc: 6MHz (few asm)) and dewindowing (mp3: 13MHz (asm), mpc: 16MHz (asm)) |
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| 13:59:19 | JdGordon | mcuelenaere: crap.. its not booting rockbox atm.. ill play a bit later and let you know :/ |
| 14:00 |
| 14:02:25 | mcuelenaere | JdGordon: no problem |
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| 14:07:04 | mcuelenaere | JdGordon: if you get the results, just say them here; I read the logs |
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| 14:38:38 | amiconn | Buschel: Now this is strange: I compared mp2 and mp3 performance on coldfire - and MP2 wasn't faster than MP3 (!) |
| 14:39:09 | Buschel | amiconn: ? |
| 14:39:12 | Buschel | strange |
| 14:39:35 | amiconn | Same track: vbr mp3 ~231kbps: 422% realtime, cbr mp2 256kbps: 415% realtime |
| 14:40:14 | Buschel | effective imdct ;o) |
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| 14:47:41 | amiconn | On PP5022, MP2 is faster, as expected: MP3: 202% realtime, MP2: 245% realtime (same track again) |
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| 14:54:27 | Buschel | hmm, if i declare an array static const A[] ICONST_ATTR; it is not showing up in the map-file |
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| 14:58:54 | markun | Buschel: do you want to work on more code sharing between the codecs? |
| 14:59:25 | Buschel | markun: i am more interested in tweaking the speed to a maximum |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:05:51 | Buschel | can the location of data influence the speed of loading? |
| 15:05:57 | Buschel | (within iram) |
| 15:09:41 | amiconn | no |
| 15:11:30 | | Join urmo [0] (n=WP-Gast@77-56-86-95.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:11:34 | urmo | rockbox |
| 15:12:44 | Buschel | hmm, when loading data in a loop from the same array. it is faster, if the adresses are near to each other? |
| 15:12:57 | urmo | rockbox |
| 15:13:06 | Buschel | like a[4], a[16], ... instead of a[4], a[576], ... |
| 15:13:08 | urmo | why do you call yourself Buschel? |
| 15:13:25 | Buschel | because was my nick since i use irc |
| 15:13:33 | n1s | Buschel: if you have a dcache i think close loads should hit the cache more often |
| 15:13:36 | urmo | what does it mean? |
| 15:13:43 | Buschel | urmo: nothing |
| 15:13:44 | n1s | scorche: ping |
| 15:13:50 | gevaerts | Buschel: don't bother. our friend urmo is a regular troll |
| 15:14:07 | Buschel | okido :) |
| 15:14:16 | urmo | gevaerts sucks |
| 15:15:15 | Buschel | if PP-targest have such cache it might be the reason for mpc being slower in dewindowing |
| 15:16:23 | Buschel | maybe i need to restructure the loops a bit |
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| 15:17:18 | urmo | why do you call yourself parafin? |
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| 15:21:35 | parafin | urmo, it's transliteration from russian of character's name in game Vangers (http://www.kdlab.com/vangers/). That's why it's got spelling error |
| 15:21:57 | krazykit | urmo, he's a troll. just ignore him |
| 15:23:19 | urmo | interesting, parafin |
| 15:23:56 | | Join Dave2 [0] (i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2) |
| 15:24:54 | parafin | adn yeah, parafin in russian is paraffin :) |
| 15:25:10 | parafin | ^adn^and |
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| 15:32:08 | | Quit crash91 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 15:35:33 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p54BF69B8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:39:11 | amiconn | Buschel: If you load data using small *constant* offsets, gcc might generate more efficient code |
| 15:39:29 | amiconn | There's a way to definitely find out... |
| 15:39:46 | Buschel | amiconn: and for asm? |
| 15:40:29 | rbirc | Hello. A couple of days ago I reported (here in irc) a 'bug' in the boot screen of sansa c200. There is a line there showing model id as e200. I've now taken a picture of that screen. Should I file a bug report in flyspray? |
| 15:40:51 | amiconn | Access locality might also help the cache, as n1s mentioned. That doesn't apply to iram though |
| 15:40:54 | amiconn | gtg |
| 15:40:56 | | Nick rbirc is now known as fml (n=4fd3c1cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e657f3e38fcaa7eb) |
| 15:40:57 | | Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 15:41:00 | Buschel | bye |
| 15:41:17 | JdGordon | fml: typo in the bootloader? |
| 15:42:29 | JdGordon | fml: show us the pic... |
| 15:42:35 | fml | JdGordon: I don't know. BarryWardell couldn't spot an error |
| 15:42:44 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:43:31 | fml | JdGordon: what is a good site for sharing pics? |
| 15:43:45 | JdGordon | imagebin.ca |
| 15:45:39 | fml | JdGordon: here: http://imagebin.ca/view/IObeXgRh.html |
| 15:46:14 | fml | I see this when I connect the player to the PC via USB (to trasfer files) |
| 15:47:12 | JdGordon | any idea what svn revision your bootloader is? |
| 15:47:51 | fml | JdGordon: no, but I freshly installed everything yesterday via RbUtil. |
| 15:48:40 | JdGordon | which version of rbutil? |
| 15:48:59 | JdGordon | domonoky: bluebrother: any idea what c200 bootloader version is shipped with rbutil? |
| 15:49:26 | domonoky | rbutil, doesnt ship any bootloaders, it uses those on download.rockbox.org .. |
| 15:49:50 | JdGordon | ah ok |
| 15:50:02 | fml | Jdgordon: 1.0.5, I think. It's the windows version available at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtility#Download |
| 15:50:44 | JdGordon | looks like its a fairly old version |
| 15:51:06 | JdGordon | its definatly not still in svn builds.. so if it really worries you install a svn bootloader |
| 15:51:20 | fml | I must add that the two or three top lines on the screenshot are overwritten. I.e. first I see something else, then the screen becomes full and wraps. The three top lines get overwritten, and then I took the picture. |
| 15:52:19 | domonoky | JdGordon: which means the c200 bootloader on download.rockbox.org are not uptodate ? |
| 15:52:23 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf_ (Connection timed out) |
| 15:52:43 | fml | JdGordon: no, it doesn't bother me really. But back then I couldn't reproduce this "bug" until i realised today that I see this when connecting to PC and not (as I assumed then) when booting up. |
| 15:52:45 | JdGordon | more, not updated... I doubt there has been anything major (worth updating) since then |
| 15:52:48 | JdGordon | oct 07 |
| 15:52:57 | gevaerts | From what I see that type is read from the OF, but I could be wrong |
| 15:53:21 | JdGordon | strings firmware.mi4 suggests it should say c200 though ?! |
| 15:54:04 | fml | I've just reported this since I thought that this could be a sign of an error somewhere. |
| 15:57:33 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 15:57:42 | gevaerts | Could this be something that's wrong in certain OF versions ? |
| 15:58:21 | fml | gevaerts: I'm not really qualified to answer such questions. IMHO it could be anything! :-) |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:40 | JdGordon | gevaerts: I dont think so.. thats rockbox code running.. |
| 16:02:48 | gevaerts | JdGordon: yes, but that code prints out data that come from the firmware partition |
| 16:03:19 | JdGordon | printf(MODEL_NAME); is that line... |
| 16:03:27 | JdGordon | well before any OF stuff is read |
| 16:04:09 | gevaerts | I don't think it's that line. It looks more like printf("Model id: %.4s", mi4header.model); |
| 16:04:29 | | Quit crope` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:04:41 | | Nick Horscht is now known as Horscht86 (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 16:05:03 | | Join crope` [0] (n=crope@dyn3-82-128-186-233.psoas.suomi.net) |
| 16:05:30 | JdGordon | bah, yep your right |
| 16:07:02 | gevaerts | fml: are you using linux ? |
| 16:07:52 | | Quit Genre9mp3 () |
| 16:08:18 | | Join Biiaru [0] (n=b@unaffiliated/Biiaru) |
| 16:09:46 | kugel | fml: I recommend updating your bootloader, the latest version has a nice bootlogo :P |
| 16:10:40 | | Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]") |
| 16:11:19 | * | gevaerts is starting to suspect that bugs in certain versions of sansapatcher might be involved |
| 16:11:59 | kugel | Hmm, I just noticed, the bootloader doesn't stop the OF from refreshing the database (I replaced the OF bootloader with the rockbox one - sansapatcher -bl bootloader.bin) |
| 16:13:28 | JdGordon | yeah, something funny is going on with sansapatcher |
| 16:14:22 | | Quit Ragnor (Nick collision from services.) |
| 16:14:25 | fml | gevaerts: no, I use WinXP |
| 16:14:32 | | Join Ragnor [0] (n=Ragnor@dslb-084-060-158-009.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:17:04 | kugel | The database refresh seems only to be stopped when the OF is loaded from the firmare partition |
| 16:17:12 | | Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 16:19:22 | fml | kugel: just run the freshly downloaded sansapatcher −− same result. As for DB refresh: pixelma said that it works only for e200. In c200 the DB is refreshed immediately and not on the next boot. |
| 16:19:49 | kugel | fml: Sorry, I mean a svn bootloader. The bootloader in sansapatcher is pretty old |
| 16:22:00 | | Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) |
| 16:22:04 | | Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:22:18 | | Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) |
| 16:22:19 | fml | kugel: I wouldn't like to compile bootloader myself. |
| 16:22:25 | * | gevaerts found it... |
| 16:22:53 | gevaerts | sansapatcher.c line 609 : memcpy(buf+0x1f8,"RBOFe200",8); |
| 16:22:53 | fml | gevaerts: what? |
| 16:23:22 | gevaerts | No wonder it says e200 then |
| 16:23:35 | | Join tessarakt [0] (n=jens@e180064015.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:26:10 | kugel | gevaerts: Isn't that only a string put into the header? |
| 16:26:42 | gevaerts | kugel: yes, but that's also only what the bug was (wrong string shown) |
| 16:27:03 | kugel | gevaerts: I mean, that string doesn't show up in the bootscreen, why would this cause this? Or does the bootloader identify the model by that string? |
| 16:27:34 | fml | gevaerts: exactement! |
| 16:28:24 | gevaerts | kugel: fml "complained" that the bootloader shows "Model id: e200" on his c200 when booting the OF. |
| 16:28:59 | kugel | gevaerts: I know |
| 16:29:25 | gevaerts | Nothing actually uses that string as far as I can see |
| 16:29:50 | kugel | Ah I see, sansapatcher updates the mi4header with that string, and the bootloader reads that string (mi4header.model), right? |
| 16:30:06 | gevaerts | yes, that's it. |
| 16:31:09 | | Join DaCapn [0] (n=dacapn@c-67-170-177-22.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 16:32:51 | fml | What's about the study mode? Will it be reverted or retained? |
| 16:35:42 | kugel | gevaerts: That means every bootloader shows e200 on every c200? I wonder why nobody noticed it yet |
| 16:36:32 | gevaerts | Mine doesn't :) |
| 16:36:50 | gevaerts | That text doesn't stay long |
| 16:36:55 | kugel | Why? |
| 16:37:12 | kugel | I mean why doesn't your bl say e200 |
| 16:37:30 | mcuelenaere | are there 64-bit machines in the build chain? |
| 16:37:30 | gevaerts | Actually, it does, but not on plugging in |
| 16:39:27 | kugel | gevaerts: And are you allready having a fix? |
| 16:39:33 | obo | mcuelenaere: yes |
| 16:40:28 | gevaerts | kugel: no. I leave that to people who know sansapatcher better. I wouldn't want to break it while fixing something that is at most a slight cosmetic bug |
| 16:40:46 | | Quit Zarggg ("Pursued by a bear") |
| 16:40:54 | kugel | gevaerts: Probably a good decision ;) |
| 16:41:27 | mcuelenaere | obo: does a pointer->int conversion on 64-bit machines requires some special types in C besides var = (int)ptr_othervar; ? |
| 16:41:58 | JdGordon | use intptr_t |
| 16:42:56 | JdGordon | mcuelenaere gets the prize for the biggest target delta ever! |
| 16:43:06 | mcuelenaere | JdGordon: so like this: int_var = (intptr_t)ptr_othervar? |
| 16:43:16 | mcuelenaere | yes, I know there's something wrong with my last commit |
| 16:43:30 | mcuelenaere | I don't get that filesize at my local tree :/ |
| 16:43:43 | * | JdGordon not sure.. too sleepy |
| 16:43:55 | * | JdGordon -> zzz |
| 16:43:58 | | Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (i=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 16:44:02 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC") |
| 16:44:45 | | Quit desowin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:45:41 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: you can't reliably store a pointer in an int, so int_var already has to be of type intptr_t |
| 16:45:41 | | Quit Bagder (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:46:31 | | Join Bagder [241] (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 16:48:14 | mcuelenaere | gevaerts: will something like this work? http://pastebin.com/d6641e237 |
| 16:48:17 | kugel | mcuelenaere: Well done ;) |
| 16:48:30 | kugel | regarding bin size |
| 16:48:46 | mcuelenaere | I know... |
| 16:48:57 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: the return needs to cast to int, not intptr_t |
| 16:49:26 | mcuelenaere | there's no implicit casting? |
| 16:49:30 | kugel | gevaerts: Is there allready a bug filed for the bootloader thing? |
| 16:49:38 | kugel | bug report rather |
| 16:49:44 | gevaerts | No idea |
| 16:50:09 | | Quit culture (No route to host) |
| 16:50:47 | | Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting") |
| 16:50:53 | kugel | searching for "bootloader c200" didn't give a usefull result. |
| 16:51:08 | | Join Zarggg [0] (n=z@216-15-73-111.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) |
| 16:51:15 | kugel | gevaerts: I'll just do it, ok? |
| 16:51:23 | Buschel | make |
| 16:51:29 | Buschel | ooops |
| 16:51:36 | Buschel | wrong window |
| 16:51:50 | kugel | We are not your compiler :( |
| 16:51:51 | bluebrother | make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. |
| 16:52:04 | Buschel | :) |
| 16:53:22 | | Nick Biiaru is now known as Makefile (n=b@unaffiliated/Biiaru) |
| 16:53:24 | Makefile | ... |
| 16:53:28 | | Nick Makefile is now known as Biiaru (n=b@cpe-98-15-233-250.hvc.res.rr.com) |
| 16:53:31 | Biiaru | someone else owns that nick |
| 16:53:32 | Biiaru | lol |
| 16:53:58 | n1s | mcuelenaere: since just the binsize grew and not the ram usage it is probably zero padding |
| 16:54:30 | Biiaru | also, for a moment there i thought i wasn't on freenode |
| 16:54:31 | mcuelenaere | n1s: I think it has something to do with the linker somewhere |
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| 17:00 |
| 17:00:47 | | Join Xqtftqx [0] (i=4cbd373c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ad76435a7264902c) |
| 17:01:34 | Xqtftqx | Hey guys, im having a problem getting this video to run, ive converted it using the vlc method, and it doesnt work, this only happens when converting avi files |
| 17:07:00 | kugel | Slasheri: ping |
| 17:07:12 | soap | avi is a container - could be anything in there. In my experience ffmpeg (you can use the WinFF front end) is the most reliable method for converting videos. |
| 17:07:26 | Xqtftqx | Alright ill try that way |
| 17:07:47 | kugel | Xqtftqx: WinFF has rockbox presets |
| 17:08:02 | BigBambi | For some devices |
| 17:08:21 | BigBambi | But the Gigabeat F/X is there, that you can also use for the S |
| 17:09:49 | Xqtftqx | As i know, is WinFF faster then VLC? |
| 17:10:05 | BigBambi | don't know |
| 17:10:10 | | Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 17:11:05 | Xqtftqx | Ill do some benchmarks |
| 17:11:25 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf () |
| 17:11:40 | Xqtftqx | This will probly be later though,IM ripping some dvd's for rockbox |
| 17:11:42 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p54BF69B8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:12:17 | BigBambi | Xqtftqx: As with the other day when you were here, you do not need to tell us everything you are doing |
| 17:12:17 | Slasheri | kugel: hi |
| 17:12:29 | Xqtftqx | Wheres the current status in this command prompt? |
| 17:12:38 | BigBambi | Xqtftqx: eh? |
| 17:12:42 | Slasheri | kugel: when tagcache filters are applied, search results are not supposed to be in sorted order |
| 17:12:50 | Xqtftqx | Like the percent |
| 17:13:05 | BigBambi | Xqtftqx: This isn't really related to rockbox |
| 17:13:16 | kugel | Slasheri: Ah, nice you allready know what I'm talking about |
| 17:13:25 | Xqtftqx | Sorry, nvm then. |
| 17:13:26 | Slasheri | kugel: yes, i read that :) |
| 17:13:49 | kugel | Slasheri: So it's not supposed to be in order, but (in pf) it seems to have an order (the inverted one though) |
| 17:13:54 | Slasheri | kugel: only unfiltered results are always sorted |
| 17:15:14 | Slasheri | interesting.. it might have some order but it can be anything. anyway, filtered results needs to be sorted afterwards if necessary (tagtree.c does that also) |
| 17:15:52 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@adsl-75-8-206-212.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:15:56 | kugel | Slasheri: From what I've seen with my own albums and the bug report someone filed, the order is indeed inverted |
| 17:16:59 | kugel | Slasheri: Ok, I've done a sorting in the patch (FS #8335), obviously I only inverted the sorting of the result |
| 17:17:25 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf () |
| 17:17:53 | Slasheri | kugel: hmm, i will check |
| 17:18:13 | kugel | Slasheri: Can you point me where tagcache.c sorts? 4.5k lines of code :/ |
| 17:18:39 | | Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 17:18:55 | Slasheri | tagcache sorts only when committing something to the db. it never sorts runtime (tagtree.c does that when necessary) |
| 17:20:02 | Slasheri | kugel: hmm, in fact adding filters shouldn't break the sorting.. |
| 17:20:04 | | Join Horschti [0] (n=Horscht@p4FD4D347.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:20:17 | Slasheri | only adding clauses needs re-sorting after retrieving the results |
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| 17:20:32 | Slasheri | that's how retrieve_entries in tagtree.c works also |
| 17:20:32 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p54BF69B8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:20:43 | Slasheri | really weird if that result list is _really_ inverted.. |
| 17:20:46 | kugel | Slasheri: When you say tagcache sorts at committing, doesn't that mean any tagcache search should result ordered? |
| 17:21:00 | Slasheri | kugel: yes |
| 17:21:08 | Slasheri | almost any |
| 17:23:13 | kugel | Slasheri: pf searches also for albums. The results are in alphabetical order (and not inverted here) |
| 17:23:26 | kugel | at this search there's no filter added though |
| 17:23:30 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 17:24:07 | Slasheri | hmm.. in fact iirc, any alphabetical tagcache result really should be ordered because of that pre-sorted data |
| 17:24:38 | Slasheri | kugel: which result was inverted? |
| 17:24:59 | kugel | Slasheri: the track search, with tag_album filter added |
| 17:25:31 | | Quit ali_as ("Shutdown!") |
| 17:26:11 | Slasheri | hmm.. i have no idea how that is possible. tracks should have been sorted also |
| 17:27:17 | | Join dabujo [0] (i=xx@p4FDB0AAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:27:29 | Slasheri | unless data is somehow sorted twice and got inverted during commit |
| 17:28:12 | Xqtftqx | Hey guys, just want to say, WinFF worked |
| 17:28:15 | kugel | Slasheri: http://pastebin.ca/1021067, this is the part where the track search happens |
| 17:28:26 | kugel | I couldn't see anything wrong there |
| 17:29:22 | | Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting") |
| 17:30:14 | kugel | When I put "DEBUGF("tcs.result: %s\n", tcs.result) into line 42 (in the pastebin), the result was allready wrong-ordered |
| 17:31:29 | Slasheri | kugel: interesting.. probably a tagcache engine bug then. did you try re-creating the db and see if that still happens? |
| 17:31:55 | | Part Buschel |
| 17:32:03 | kugel | Slasheri: The database was pretty "fresh" |
| 17:32:29 | kugel | Slasheri: I didn't actually, but I can't remember the tracklist being in the correct order. |
| 17:33:04 | kugel | also see: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8425 |
| 17:33:05 | | Quit Xqtftqx ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 17:34:10 | Slasheri | kugel: did you try if that bug happens with and without the db loaded in ram? |
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| 17:34:53 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 17:35:03 | kugel | Slasheri: Note, the bug only (seems to) happen in the pictureflow plugin. The database works as expected |
| 17:35:42 | Slasheri | kugel: if you go directly to the track list in the db browser, is that sorted correctly? |
| 17:35:51 | kugel | yes |
| 17:35:55 | Slasheri | hmm, weird |
| 17:36:41 | | Quit Horscht86 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:37:54 | Slasheri | kugel: tagtree shouldn't sort that top level tracklist, so it should be displayed as received from the tc engine |
| 17:39:21 | kugel | Slasheri: In tagtree, I see a bool: sort_inverse |
| 17:39:42 | kugel | Not how meaningful that is |
| 17:40:08 | Slasheri | that is a configuration option in tagnavi.config that can be used to invert the result list (and if used, involves tagtree.c to re-sort the results inverted) |
| 17:41:25 | Slasheri | kugel: please try to disable the qsort from tagtree to be sure it doesn't sort the list |
| 17:41:34 | Slasheri | and then check again if the tracklist is really in order |
| 17:42:48 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:45:04 | Slasheri | kugel: ah, yes |
| 17:45:08 | mcuelenaere | why is there a .ALIGN(0x200) at the beginning of DRAM in app.lds? |
| 17:45:14 | | Join ali_as [0] (n=as@ambix.plus.com) |
| 17:45:32 | mcuelenaere | .= ALIGN(0x200) * |
| 17:45:57 | n1s | mcuelenaere: i think that is used for the usb stack or something |
| 17:46:43 | Slasheri | i didn't remember at first, but now i do. Using any filter, makes tc to go through the master index to find matching results. And master lookup isn't ordered, so the results should be in fact random |
| 17:46:54 | kugel | Slasheri: I commented 'if (sort) qsort(..);' out and it appears to be still in correct order |
| 17:47:21 | Slasheri | kugel: now try going from album -> tracklist |
| 17:47:28 | Slasheri | that should be in random order now |
| 17:48:12 | kugel | correct order, also correct when I go through albumartist/artist before |
| 17:48:38 | kugel | Slasheri: The order doesn't appear to be random, it's indeed ordered inverted |
| 17:48:48 | kugel | (in pictureflow) |
| 17:49:11 | Slasheri | just a moment, i am checking the code |
| 17:49:15 | Slasheri | but that shouldn't be possible.. |
| 17:50:38 | Slasheri | do you have tc loaded in ram? |
| 17:51:58 | Slasheri | probably it's just pure luck if the results are ordered, they shouldn't be |
| 17:53:24 | Slasheri | when filters are used, tc engine doesn't anything about the actual tags when doing the filtering. that means a sorting is necessary after the finished retrieve |
| 17:53:30 | Slasheri | +know |
| 17:54:08 | jhMikeS | Horscht: still around? I wanted to know if you experienced any dropout trouble with latest revisions (ata hack disabled). I see no FS reports or any other issues and want to just remove that code entirely. |
| 17:54:45 | Horscht | I was using a build about 2 weeks old until today |
| 17:54:52 | Horscht | I am currently compiling a new one |
| 17:55:21 | jhMikeS | Horscht: ok, give word. |
| 17:55:23 | kugel | Slasheri: It's definetly not random, I looked through several albums in pictureflow now, and it's allways inverted order |
| 17:55:32 | Horscht | will do, jhMikeS |
| 17:56:12 | Slasheri | kugel: that might happen that the file system returned files in inverted order when adding albums so it looks apparently ordered |
| 17:56:40 | Slasheri | kugel: anyway, a full sorting is required atm to fix the ordering |
| 17:58:17 | Slasheri | kugel: tc engine was designed to be high performance and low memory hungry, so that is one tradeoff it has |
| 17:58:41 | | Quit DerPapst ("*plop*") |
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| 17:59:00 | kugel | Slasheri: So how would I order the tracklist? |
| 17:59:18 | Slasheri | kugel: you have to implement a qsort in the pf |
| 17:59:45 | kugel | Slasheri: Ok |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:59 | kugel | Slasheri: Wait! You could be right with the filesystem returns the file in inverted order. I have named my files with the track number in the front |
| 18:01:14 | Horscht | jhMikeS, no issues so far. The playback stuttering on the first buffering is gone |
| 18:01:15 | kugel | Could that be the reason it appears to have an order? |
| 18:01:36 | Horscht | plus it takes just over 1 minute, as opposed to 2.5 |
| 18:01:37 | Slasheri | kugel: yes, that is exactly what i was thinking of :) |
| 18:01:56 | Horscht | rev 17555 |
| 18:02:36 | jhMikeS | Horscht: Nice. |
| 18:02:48 | Slasheri | kugel: because the order tc returns is what are inside master index (i.e., the order files were added to the db) |
| 18:03:07 | | Join Buschel [0] (n=abc@p54A3EA2D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:03:30 | Horscht | jhMikeS, so, what did you do, or to be more precise: what was wrong before? |
| 18:03:36 | * | Buschel now know where the main difference between mpc's and mp3's dewindowing is :o) |
| 18:03:56 | | Join l403 [0] (n=l403@85.132.176.252) |
| 18:04:03 | l403 | hi guys |
| 18:04:04 | jhMikeS | Horscht: amiconn's commit to fix the dropout on nano was the same cause for 5.5g problems it turns out. |
| 18:04:25 | jhMikeS | or rather nano + 5.5g had the same problem |
| 18:04:31 | Buschel | mp3 saves several ldr's or ldm's plus some mul's via using additional symmetry of the window itself −− gotta try to implement this for mpc, too |
| 18:04:59 | Slasheri | tc could be changed to keep the right order in results, but that would mean tc would have to generate a lookup list/hash of every song first and then go through the requested index and check for every entry if the lookup hash contains it too |
| 18:05:03 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=Der_Paps@p5B23C327.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:05:04 | jhMikeS | Horscht: they needed longer delays before using the drive after powering it up |
| 18:05:25 | kugel | Slasheri: Ah yes. |
| 18:05:31 | Slasheri | but that would need a lot more memory to do runtime (or otherwise performance would be degraded) |
| 18:06:37 | Buschel | saves 8*36*2 multiply-adds as well as 248*36*2 ldr's per frame |
| 18:06:59 | l403 | i was wondering how is it possible that daasheet for some chips are not available like samsung S5L8700. it doesnt make sense to me |
| 18:08:52 | Slasheri | kugel: hmm.. in fact! that doesn't require that much of memory if done properly (only 1 byte/entry). Could be done in future to enhance the tc engine. The only tradeoff would be that UI couldn't display any progress when calling tagcache_search and tagcache_get_next() wouldn't iterate that much any longer |
| 18:10:59 | kugel | Sounds good :) |
| 18:11:04 | soap | what happened to 0x0065? Did he remove his own account? |
| 18:11:52 | Slasheri | kugel: i will definately add that in todo. It would be a slight UI tradeoff, but would simplify the code using tc a bit |
| 18:12:52 | kugel | Indeed |
| 18:13:03 | kugel | Slasheri: BTW, you are indeed right |
| 18:13:26 | kugel | I removed the leading tracknumber in the filenames of 1 album, and the order is completely different in pictureflow now |
| 18:13:44 | Slasheri | hehe, good to hear that :) |
| 18:14:03 | Slasheri | otherwise it would have been really weird |
| 18:14:10 | kugel | Slasheri: I didn't think of that, that my filenames are causing the order :/ |
| 18:19:42 | kugel | Slasheri: Implement that sorting asap, I'm too lazy to implement that in pf now :/ |
| 18:19:49 | kugel | :) |
| 18:19:54 | Slasheri | kugel: in fact, correcting that sorting order would also enhance two other funtions of the tc engine |
| 18:20:06 | Slasheri | so i will try to do that soon if i have some time |
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| 18:20:43 | Slasheri | kugel: i would like to. i might try to see today what it needs to be done :) |
| 18:21:02 | kugel | Cool! |
| 18:22:49 | | Join Davide-NYC [0] (n=chatzill@user-0cev9vm.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 18:23:26 | Slasheri | hmm.. what others think, would it be ok to set a hard limit to the maximum track count in the database? for example 64k tracks (it would be very impractical to have that many tracks either) |
| 18:23:36 | Davide-NYC | JdGordon|zzz: ping |
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| 18:28:22 | kugel | Slasheri: Not sure. I just know that pictureflow has such a gap |
| 18:29:04 | | Quit l403 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 18:29:19 | | Quit Davide-NYC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
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| 18:34:06 | | Part Buschel |
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| 18:36:57 | n1s | Slasheri: why would it be impractical? |
| 18:39:49 | | Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:43:29 | kugel | Anyone wants to commit http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8335 ? :) |
| 18:43:30 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Connection timed out) |
| 18:45:09 | | Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) |
| 18:46:34 | Slasheri | n1s: tagcache doesn't handle very well that many tracks |
| 18:47:00 | | Join nuonguy [0] (n=john@c-24-6-175-26.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:47:23 | Slasheri | kugel: anyway, i found i couldn't do it that way. But! I can do it so that if there are for example not more than 32 tracks in the results, then results are sorted. Otherwise, they are not |
| 18:47:30 | n1s | Slasheri: now that dap harddrives have crossed 100GB i don't think it's unrealistic for someone to have that many tracks... |
| 18:47:57 | Slasheri | indeed.. hopefully those daps have a more powerful cpus too |
| 18:48:42 | Slasheri | kugel: but by sorted tracks, do you mean ordered by the track number or alphabetically sorted? |
| 18:49:12 | kugel | Slasheri: I'd rather sort by tracknumber if tracknumber info is available |
| 18:49:20 | kugel | just like the tagtree does |
| 18:49:32 | kugel | Slasheri: In any way, I think it would be nice if the api would offer some function which handels the ordering |
| 18:50:44 | Slasheri | kugel: ok, that would be slightly harder (but not impossible) to do |
| 18:51:15 | Slasheri | the problem is that sorting a large number of entries, requires extra buffer space the tc engine doesn't has |
| 18:52:13 | Slasheri | but limiting the sorting (and even configuring criteria) to the SEEK_LIST_SIZE number of results would be possible to do in the engine also |
| 18:53:04 | | Quit mcuelenaere ("Leaving..") |
| 18:53:52 | kugel | Slasheri: I think it doesn't necessarily need to be done by tc. Maybe there could be an API provided by tagtree |
| 18:54:14 | Slasheri | that could be a good idea indeed |
| 18:54:51 | Slasheri | in fact it could be the best way to do that |
| 18:55:08 | kugel | i.e. tagTREE_search instead of tagcache_search in the plugin api |
| 18:56:03 | | Join Buschel [0] (n=AndreeBu@p54A3EA2D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 19:00 |
| 19:09:01 | kugel | Nico_P: ping You wanted to commit http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8335 some time ago. I think now is a good moment. I'm pretty much finished |
| 19:09:12 | | Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@117.98.51.222) |
| 19:09:42 | AceNik | hey uys can i make my own bootloader from the current source, is there any harm ? |
| 19:10:43 | kugel | AceNik: There *should not* be a harm. Even though SVN bootloader are not tested deeply, thus you shouldn't expect it to work |
| 19:11:00 | kugel | AceNik: If you are running an e200, I can tell you the SVN bootloader is safe to use |
| 19:11:25 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@adsl-69-154-187-90.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 19:11:51 | AceNik | kugel: let me compile one for h10 [20GB] & see, what kind of changes can i expect, i mean anything significant |
| 19:13:34 | kugel | AceNik: Do it on your own risk. The most noticeable change is the bootlogo. |
| 19:14:36 | AceNik | kugel: how, you mean the version number ?, secondly the only consequence is it would not work right |
| 19:16:11 | kugel | AceNik: I just say: Never change a running system. A bugged bootloader can mess up your dap very bad. I recommend not to update the bootloader if it's not necessary |
| 19:17:05 | AceNik | kugel: ok if thats the case i wont try |
| 19:17:49 | AceNik | kugel: but really that bad, i mean its just once that it has to boot to proove its working, h10 i think is pretty stable now |
| 19:19:25 | n1s | AceNik: it depends on how easy it is to recover from a bad bootloader |
| 19:20:10 | AceNik | n1s: usually what kind of cases do you face when you try to upgrade botloaders, i mean its gonna happen this devcon as it is |
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| 19:22:07 | AceNik | n1s: i would be able to boot into disk mode right ? even if the bootloader is messed up |
| 19:22:24 | AceNik | i can always re flash with my irivers local botloader |
| 19:23:55 | n1s | AceNik: i don't know for the h10 but for example an ipod is easy just needs to start in diskmode and write to the hd, an h100/h300 however requires special hardware and soldering to recover so you better be sure... |
| 19:24:15 | | Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]") |
| 19:24:50 | AceNik | ok im trying it lets hope things go normal |
| 19:25:28 | n1s | but why do you wan tto update the bootloader? |
| 19:25:57 | AceNik | im just curious |
| 19:27:10 | kugel | AceNik: Please inform on how to recover the H10 before you do that |
| 19:27:41 | AceNik | as in ? |
| 19:28:13 | AceNik | well if it gets into disk mode fine otherwise ill have to hack it through linux |
| 19:28:25 | AceNik | force mount it or something |
| 19:29:04 | kugel | AceNik: See, I nearly bricked my e200 recently because of updating the bootloade |
| 19:29:17 | kugel | although it was my fault, the bootloader was fine |
| 19:29:51 | | Join inigomontoya [0] (n=621cdcfd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-28b53f7645b03545) |
| 19:30:01 | AceNik | kugel: lets see, i mean i really want to try this, rockbox has reached a stage i think with the h10 it cant be so bad |
| 19:30:04 | kugel | the e200 has 4 boot modes (normal, recovery, manufactoring and preboot mode), I needed to go into preboot |
| 19:30:13 | inigomontoya | hello |
| 19:30:27 | inigomontoya | kugel: have you tried the patch that fixes doom when rotated yet? |
| 19:30:33 | kugel | AceNik: And some players don't even have a recovery mode |
| 19:30:34 | AceNik | i have jus a ums boot mode |
| 19:30:59 | AceNik | well i do hav a disk mode & a mtp mode relax ill get back to you on this in 10 mins |
| 19:31:21 | kugel | inigomontoya: No, do you? |
| 19:31:58 | inigomontoya | kugel: i am the one that made it, so yes :D |
| 19:32:03 | AceNik | ok just tell me once the bootloader is compiled, after the make process, it will be saved as the final file right, i need no type any other command after make ? |
| 19:32:06 | | Join linuxstb__ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 19:32:17 | | Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p508A37B9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:32:33 | kugel | inigomontoya: Oh, sorry. I think I tried it in the simulator and didn't experience a crash |
| 19:34:08 | kugel | inigomontoya: Although, I just see, there*s no crash in the sim w/o that patch to |
| 19:34:12 | kugel | too* |
| 19:34:38 | * | gevaerts isn't surprised. simulators are very different from real targets |
| 19:34:39 | | Quit kharo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:35:24 | kugel | gevaerts: That's why I said no in the first place :) |
| 19:36:16 | inigomontoya | kugel: I have noticed no bad effects or changes other than doom not crashing with the patch |
| 19:38:33 | kugel | inigomontoya: sounds good |
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| 19:41:11 | | Quit Zarggg_ (Client Quit) |
| 19:41:15 | | Join Wolfy|Sajber [0] (n=empty@81-234-151-88-no94.business.telia.com) |
| 19:41:37 | Wolfy|Sajber | hey people :) |
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| 19:42:51 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 19:44:10 | | Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 19:51:35 | advcomp2019 | hello Wolfy|Sajber.. have a question? |
| 19:53:29 | Wolfy|Sajber | advcomp2019: any news on the ZVM port? how close is it to a real "build"? |
| 19:54:37 | advcomp2019 | i dont know both |
| 19:54:41 | Wolfy|Sajber | kk |
| 19:54:57 | Wolfy|Sajber | how about the gigabeat s? :P |
| 19:55:37 | kugel | linuxstb__: just curious, what's your progress on the clip? |
| 19:55:47 | AceNik | how about the zune CPU encryption has it been cracked ? |
| 19:55:55 | | Join Zarggg_ [0] (n=z@216-15-73-111.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) |
| 19:56:01 | toffe82 | Wolfy|Sajber: the S is working but still a lot to do |
| 19:56:24 | Wolfy|Sajber | toffe82: ok, so no "real" build for awhile? |
| 19:56:51 | | Join weatherundergnd [0] (n=weatheru@dsl-aur-fee1de00-165.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:57:03 | kugel | Wolfy|Sajber: Afaik, the main issue is the installation which is rather complicated and AFAIK requires linux |
| 19:57:15 | | Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!") |
| 19:57:17 | kugel | for the ZVM you even need to take out the HD |
| 19:57:17 | | Join DayRider [0] (n=dodo@92.82.96.40) |
| 19:57:39 | toffe82 | Wolfy|Sajber: check here http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatSInstallation |
| 19:57:46 | Llorean | kugel: The main issue is that not all the necessary hardware is supported to the level we're comfortable releasing yet. |
| 19:57:59 | Llorean | kugel: A linux-only installation would not preclude release for the S. |
| 19:58:13 | kugel | Ok |
| 19:58:22 | Wolfy|Sajber | kugel: so the installation for the ZVM will allways requiere to take out the harddrive? :/ |
| 19:59:11 | kugel | Wolfy|Sajber: That's not my business. I don't have a ZVM or something. I just told you what I recall |
| 19:59:18 | Wolfy|Sajber | kugel: ok |
| 19:59:27 | * | DerPapst installed rockbox on the s without leenux |
| 19:59:35 | kugel | (same applies for Gigabeat S) |
| 19:59:52 | Llorean | DerPapst: Modified firmware updater? |
| 19:59:57 | DerPapst | yep |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:04:28 | weatherundergnd | i tried to play one .SID song on my iRiver H140, but the player jammed. is there any way to do hardboot? |
| 20:04:38 | weatherundergnd | i can't seem to poweroff the player. |
| 20:05:53 | n1s | weatherundergnd: push a straightened paperclip into the reset hole in the bottom of the player |
| 20:07:44 | weatherundergnd | hey i've never noticed that before :) |
| 20:07:51 | weatherundergnd | thanks |
| 20:08:58 | weatherundergnd | n1s: you have iRiver player too? |
| 20:09:06 | n1s | i have a h320 |
| 20:09:40 | weatherundergnd | i noticed that if i have the remote controller between the player and my headphones i get strange static noise |
| 20:09:50 | weatherundergnd | somekind of static interference from HD etc, maybe? |
| 20:11:00 | BigBambi | There is an issue on some H100s about a remote ticking noise, and there is an option to try and help that. It doesn't happen on all of them however, I don't get anything on my H140 |
| 20:11:16 | BigBambi | I don't know if that is the same as your issue, but you can try and see |
| 20:11:25 | weatherundergnd | yeah it's the ticking noise |
| 20:11:32 | weatherundergnd | but it comes only when the remote is connected |
| 20:11:35 | BigBambi | Yes |
| 20:11:44 | n1s | weatherundergnd: there is a known hardware defect in some players/remotes that cause ticking, try enabling "reduce ticking" under general -> display -> remote lcd |
| 20:11:47 | BigBambi | Have you enabled the option to try and reduce it? |
| 20:13:34 | weatherundergnd | it makes it little less audible, but doesn't really remove it :( |
| 20:13:42 | kugel | vmware isn't open source is it? shouldn't rockbox encourage to use open source software (like virtualbox) and thus offering a vbox developement image instead? |
| 20:13:49 | BigBambi | weatherundergnd: hence reduce |
| 20:13:58 | BigBambi | As n1s, it is a hardware issue |
| 20:14:05 | n1s | kugel: feel free to make one... |
| 20:14:08 | weatherundergnd | :| |
| 20:14:17 | kugel | n1s: hehe |
| 20:14:20 | weatherundergnd | i haven't noticed that ticking noise with the original firmware |
| 20:14:25 | kugel | that answer was predictable ;) |
| 20:15:32 | weatherundergnd | one more stupid question.. how do you boot back to original firmware? |
| 20:15:59 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 20:16:02 | n1s | weatherundergnd: hold rec when booting iirc |
| 20:16:31 | | Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!") |
| 20:17:01 | BigBambi | weatherundergnd: checking out the manual would be a good idea |
| 20:21:59 | weatherundergnd | i seem to have the remote ticking also on the original firmware.. hmm. i'm using EU firmware on this player. i wonder if trying US firmware would do any difference. |
| 20:22:21 | weatherundergnd | i don't remember having that remote ticking problem last when i used the player |
| 20:22:23 | Llorean | It's a _hardware_ flaw. |
| 20:22:29 | weatherundergnd | :| |
| 20:23:09 | weatherundergnd | Llorean: i'm out of warranty. :( i wonder if it's still possible to get it fixed. |
| 20:23:16 | weatherundergnd | is the flaw in the remote or the player itself? |
| 20:24:09 | Llorean | I don't think you're likely to be able to get it fixed. As far as I know it happens in a large number of the players, and is more of a design flaw that some people just happen to avoid than anything else. |
| 20:24:46 | jhMikeS | 16-ohm headphones seem much more susceptible to ticking problems than 32-ohm (i've have checked this out myself) |
| 20:25:04 | Llorean | The simplest solution is just not to plug your headphones into the remote. |
| 20:25:45 | | Part DayRider |
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| 20:33:08 | | Join guest45 [0] (n=864c034d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-70720ccb6e19d7d4) |
| 20:33:52 | | Quit guest45 (Client Quit) |
| 20:34:01 | | Join guest45 [0] (n=864c034d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2aee5a6b80d68b73) |
| 20:34:48 | guest45 | Hi, how often does the since-4weeks page update? |
| 20:34:58 | | Join Falafel [0] (n=Falafel@186pc220.sshunet.nl) |
| 20:35:53 | Bagder | 4 times/day |
| 20:36:38 | guest45 | thank you |
| 20:36:39 | AceNik | hey guys im using the new booloader in the iriver h10 i just compiled it, i wanted to point out, there was a patch which barry had included which showed the booloader version first then the rockbox version, well it works with the new booloader , but now in the old one |
| 20:39:10 | AceNik | anything else i should be checkin for while using the new bootloader ? |
| 20:39:11 | | Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host126-226-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:39:53 | AceNik | like the first version was 50KB, this one is 70KB, do yu think there would be code that would be useless in it somewhere ? |
| 20:43:09 | n1s | the new one has a logo included, right? that probably explains the size delta if so... |
| 20:45:03 | AceNik | n1s: ok, but there is one problem, while booting if the hold button is on, it freezes on " hold button is on shutting down" & there is a lousy click |
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| 20:49:19 | AceNik | n1s: is there anythin else that needs to be checked when testing a bootloader ? |
| 20:49:44 | | Quit ido_sh (Client Quit) |
| 20:49:51 | n1s | does it boot rockbox/of and do everything else it's supposed to? |
| 20:49:56 | Llorean | AceNik: The "Hold button is on" message is from the OF though, isn't it? |
| 20:50:39 | AceNik | llorean: i dont think so ? is it ususally in rockbox when rockbox is booting hold button n resets the settings right ? |
| 20:50:47 | | Join culture [0] (n=sam@cpc1-bele3-0-0-cust658.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
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| 20:51:28 | Llorean | AceNik: I can't decipher the grammar of that sentence. If you wait and turn the hold button on shortly before Rockbox boots, yes, hold will reset the settings. |
| 20:51:43 | Llorean | Which doesn't involve shutting down at all. |
| 20:52:10 | AceNik | llorean: i figured it out, after the booloader logo shows, i tried to put the hold button on now, & it cleared the settings |
| 20:52:40 | * | linuxstb_ points to line 460 of bootloader/main-pp.c |
| 20:52:52 | AceNik | if the hold button is on before the booloader logo shows, then it gives an error messae that " hold button is on" "shutting down" |
| 20:54:25 | | Join ido_sh [0] (n=ido@bzq-79-181-202-181.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 20:55:05 | * | linuxstb_ thinks the H10 should use a real button for that |
| 20:55:13 | AceNik | otherwise the new botloader does everything perfect 1.reboots on clicking the .mi4 file, 2. boots into OF 3. boots into disk mode even through rockbox 4. clears settings after the boot logo is shown |
| 20:55:23 | | Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:55:31 | Llorean | AceNik: Rebooting on clicking an MI4 file is RoLo not the bootloader |
| 20:55:43 | AceNik | ok |
| 20:55:49 | Llorean | Clearing settings is also not handled by the bootloader |
| 20:57:28 | AceNik | so anything else ? i think the h10 bootloader is having no trouble then |
| 21:00 |
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| 21:02:08 | | Quit weatherundergnd ("Lost terminal") |
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| 21:08:37 | | Quit Bagder (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:09:20 | * | jhMikeS hasn't done much with e200 recently and now finds all directories sort in reverse order (Z-A) :\ |
| 21:09:42 | | Join Bagder [241] (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 21:12:27 | n1s | jhMikeS: there's a bug that sounds really crazy at FS #8949 that might be the cause? |
| 21:14:27 | | Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:17:47 | jhMikeS | n1s: I'll check. It's just directories, not files. |
| 21:18:00 | linuxstb | Does dircache affect that bug? |
| 21:19:17 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 21:19:30 | jhMikeS | I don't have it on but I'll try with it on then |
| 21:20:07 | jhMikeS | nope, still backwards |
| 21:21:00 | jhMikeS | wtf, I went to turn it off but it said it was already off yet showed it as initialized in the debug screen |
| 21:22:59 | jhMikeS | it won't actually turn on for real here |
| 21:23:57 | jhMikeS | I had "Cache Initialized: No", "Entry Count: 20027" |
| 21:25:25 | | Quit davina^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:26:01 | jhMikeS | Indeed, you have to switch the setting and then set it back to "Alphabetical" |
| 21:26:59 | | Join m0f0x [0] (n=m0f0x@189-47-37-67.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:32:06 | | Quit obo ("bye") |
| 21:32:59 | | Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) |
| 21:33:12 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 21:38:17 | | Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:42:55 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:43:45 | | Quit Wolfy|Sajber ("http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sajber") |
| 21:44:25 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 21:48:25 | bluebrother | Bagder: could we get easily accessible icons to note the OSes for rbutil? I.e. an icon for w32, linux and one for os x? |
| 21:50:18 | | Join saratoga [0] (n=62e14d04@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-89568005f6773f0f) |
| 21:51:00 | saratoga | Buschel: i noticed your profiling remarks, i'm curious if you figured out where MAD spends most of it's time |
| 21:51:30 | Buschel | saratoga: not really, i am fighting with the mpc-synthesis now |
| 21:51:35 | saratoga | i've not been able to profile it since last winter, and unfortunately i didn't save the map file when i last manged to hack up the profiler well enough to work, so i don't know what function the memory addresses refer to |
| 21:51:39 | * | Buschel seems to loose this fight |
| 21:52:02 | saratoga | Buschel: mpc is already pretty fast, maybe time to find a new project? |
| 21:52:23 | saratoga | i think if you put the clock speed as low as it could go for mpc, you'd probably get a slide show from the gui |
| 21:53:04 | Buschel | saratoga: well, at least i found out mpc is not as efficient as mad in the synthesis |
| 21:53:42 | | Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 21:54:20 | * | n1s wonders how to make items in a menu conditionally appear, macro hell isn't very much documented... |
| 21:56:34 | | Quit bughunter2 ("Leaving.") |
| 21:56:39 | | Quit goffa (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:58:03 | | Join mf0102 [0] (n=michi@85.127.21.196) |
| 21:59:13 | | Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@atheme/member/desowin) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:03:41 | | Join espn [0] (n=d1f5163c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-824ab40b23a972d0) |
| 22:04:13 | espn | Anyone know how to install Pacbox onto a 30 |
| 22:04:20 | espn | GB iPod Video?/ |
| 22:05:24 | BigBambi | espn: It is already installed. To play it you need the ROMs, which legally you need to extract from the arcae machine you own. do not ask here where to download them. |
| 22:05:36 | BigBambi | s/arcae/arcade |
| 22:06:19 | bluebrother | espn: read the second paragraph: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch10.html#x13-14400010 |
| 22:06:19 | espn | Okay, but what does this all mean? |
| 22:06:30 | BigBambi | espn: As I said |
| 22:06:34 | espn | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginPacbox |
| 22:06:38 | BigBambi | The emulator is already installed |
| 22:06:42 | BigBambi | It comes with Rockbox |
| 22:06:46 | espn | under where it says Md5 checkup |
| 22:06:53 | bluebrother | ... the manual tells this ... |
| 22:07:14 | BigBambi | espn: Those are the MD5 checksums of the roms |
| 22:07:24 | bluebrother | espn: well, if you have that files obtained legally those sums allow you to check the files |
| 22:07:33 | espn | Oh okay. |
| 22:07:36 | espn | Thanks |
| 22:07:44 | BigBambi | The legal way of getting the ROMs is to extract them from an arcade machine you own |
| 22:08:24 | espn | What would be a type of arcade machine? |
| 22:08:36 | BigBambi | The big things you play in an arcade |
| 22:09:18 | espn | Gotcha. |
| 22:10:11 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@171-012-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 22:14:31 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 22:16:58 | | Quit espn ("CGI:IRC") |
| 22:22:53 | | Join Xqtftqx [0] (i=4cbd373c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-351b1e2e623f57c9) |
| 22:23:44 | Xqtftqx | Guys is it just my player or does scrolling in text files not work on the S? |
| 22:27:42 | saratoga | when i run make, where the makefiles for the individual codecs stored? |
| 22:27:59 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:28:22 | jhMikeS | Xqtftqx: no, not just yours |
| 22:28:40 | Xqtftqx | Alright, thanks |
| 22:28:42 | jhMikeS | Vol +/- will page up/down though |
| 22:29:04 | Bagder | saratoga: apps/codecs/[codec]/Makefile |
| 22:29:07 | Xqtftqx | It will? Ill have try |
| 22:29:14 | Xqtftqx | Thanks jhMikeS |
| 22:29:18 | | Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) |
| 22:29:42 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) |
| 22:32:05 | Xqtftqx | jhMikeS, if page up and down works, cant you just edit the settings and remap the keys? |
| 22:32:49 | jhMikeS | Xqtftqx: Whoever is interested in doing that should go ahead :) |
| 22:33:03 | Xqtftqx | Alright, ill see if i can take a look |
| 22:34:06 | | Quit mackes ("Mackes is out") |
| 22:35:22 | | Quit Xqtftqx ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 22:35:51 | | Join Xqtftqx [0] (i=4cbd373c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1c6aec306a8156e9) |
| 22:38:29 | Xqtftqx | jhMikeS: Wheres the txtviewer plugin? |
| 22:39:25 | bluebrother | Xqtftqx: apps/plugins/viewer |
| 22:39:51 | Xqtftqx | Thanks |
| 22:39:57 | | Join dabujo_ [0] (i=xx@p4FDB2BD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:39:58 | bluebrother | *viewer.c to be exact. |
| 22:40:26 | | Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=BHSPitLa@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) |
| 22:41:02 | Xqtftqx | Alright, im looking here and i see the keys for gigabeat F/X but no S, wheres the keys for S? |
| 22:42:01 | bluebrother | search for GIGABEAT_S_PAD |
| 22:42:02 | Xqtftqx | NVM, i found it, (Somebody needs to add a commet) |
| 22:43:13 | n1s | hmm, 'someone' should do a s/GIGABEAT_PAD/GIGABEAT_F_PAD/g |
| 22:46:33 | Xqtftqx | Also Autoscroll works |
| 22:48:59 | Xqtftqx | Hmmm, theres no maps here for lineup and line down |
| 22:49:07 | Xqtftqx | where are those keymaps? |
| 22:57:04 | | Quit dabujo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:57:07 | | Join fdinel [0] (n=Miranda@modemcable002.173-131-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:57:23 | bluebrother | the keymap is at the beginning of the file. Just add the missing line up / down definitions |
| 22:58:21 | Xqtftqx | I see the keymaps |
| 22:59:34 | Xqtftqx | http://pastebin.com/m30790e74 but only for page up and down, on all targets |
| 22:59:38 | | Quit daskhweg (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:59:49 | | Join daskhweg [0] (n=l3ech@bzq-79-180-227-187.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:10 | Xqtftqx | I cant find anything with line up&down |
| 23:01:10 | BigBambi | Yes, because it isn't defined for the S |
| 23:01:17 | BigBambi | That is what you are trying to add |
| 23:02:06 | Xqtftqx | http://pastebin.com/m537ec5e6, theres none for any other target |
| 23:02:34 | | Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 23:02:39 | Xqtftqx | Thats for the F, which line up and down works |
| 23:02:51 | BigBambi | I see them for loads of targets |
| 23:03:04 | Xqtftqx | where? |
| 23:03:18 | BigBambi | H1x0 for a start |
| 23:03:26 | bluebrother | Xqtftqx: just search for VIEWER_LINE_UP and you'll see ... ;-) |
| 23:03:41 | Xqtftqx | Alright, thanks |
| 23:03:49 | bluebrother | it's also around for the sansas |
| 23:04:21 | Xqtftqx | Alright, i see it now |
| 23:04:26 | BigBambi | all you need to do is pick a button and add e.g. #define VIEWER_LINE_UP BUTTON_WHATEVER |
| 23:05:38 | Xqtftqx | #define VIEWER_PAGE_LINE_UP BUTTON_UP |
| 23:05:47 | BigBambi | for example |
| 23:06:06 | BigBambi | have you checked what the S buttons are 'called'? |
| 23:06:18 | Xqtftqx | I havent where are they? |
| 23:07:27 | n1s | firmware/target/arm/imx31/gigabeat-s/button-target,h |
| 23:07:49 | n1s | Xqtftqx: you know there are tools for searching... |
| 23:07:52 | BigBambi | firmware/target/arm/imx31/gigabeat-s/button-target.h |
| 23:07:54 | BigBambi | hehe |
| 23:07:59 | * | domonoky thinks about improving touchstrip driver of the m:robe100.. its still is too sensitiv, and scroll support would be nice.. |
| 23:08:00 | * | BigBambi should read whilst typing |
| 23:08:06 | | Quit jaczehack ("CGI:IRC") |
| 23:09:42 | BigBambi | jhMikeS: Are any of the buttons able to be detected simultaneously on the beast? |
| 23:10:09 | * | BigBambi is guessing power maybe |
| 23:10:47 | jhMikeS | BigBambi: any combo |
| 23:10:54 | BigBambi | ah, cool |
| 23:10:59 | BigBambi | that's nice |
| 23:11:05 | | Join mackes [0] (n=root@cpe-24-198-43-238.buffalo.res.rr.com) |
| 23:11:14 | saratoga | reverting to the revision i used last winter to profile mad doesn't seem to work |
| 23:11:19 | saratoga | i wonder what i'm missing |
| 23:13:24 | n1s | haha, i love this: while booting the h300 pressing rec will do one of 3(!) things, if pressed early boot OF, if pressed a little later, clear settings and usually enter rec screen, and pretty late only enter rec screen :) |
| 23:16:06 | petur | and if the usb cable is inserted, only charge.... |
| 23:17:28 | n1s | ah, right never used that |
| 23:19:59 | petur | well....vonly charge *and* enter rec screen :( |
| 23:20:02 | petur | -v |
| 23:21:05 | BigBambi | hehe, the target list in configure doesn't fit in my normal terminal window any more :) |
| 23:21:18 | Bagder | haha |
| 23:22:42 | linuxstb | What's the difference between the 30GB and 60GB ZVM builds? |
| 23:22:55 | * | Bagder doesn't know |
| 23:23:21 | BigBambi | linuxstb: That was discussed in the logs a couple of days ago but I can't remember the answer |
| 23:23:32 | n1s | Bagder: could you take a quick look at a license ~ 20 lines, and say if you think it's gpl compat? |
| 23:23:40 | Bagder | sure, hit me! |
| 23:23:56 | * | BigBambi readies his rhythm stick |
| 23:24:36 | n1s | Bagder: http://pastebin.ca/1021330 |
| 23:25:14 | Bagder | yes, I claim it is gpl compatible |
| 23:25:31 | n1s | so ok to commit to rockbox svn? |
| 23:25:35 | Bagder | yes |
| 23:25:40 | n1s | great, thanks :) |
| 23:26:51 | * | Buschel prays for his commit working fine |
| 23:26:58 | * | Buschel never added files yet |
| 23:27:27 | * | Bagder polishes up the "i broke the build" badge in preparation |
| 23:28:13 | Buschel | let's see |
| 23:28:39 | | Quit Xqtftqx ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 23:28:48 | BigBambi | For the S text viewer, would people prefer previous and next to shift one character left and right, or a combo with something + left and right (and what would that something be)? |
| 23:29:00 | BigBambi | Personally I prefer non-combos |
| 23:29:47 | amiconn | Buschel: Should that ICONST_ATTR improve speed on coldfire? |
| 23:29:55 | Llorean | Why do you need to select individual characters in a text viewer? |
| 23:29:58 | n1s | BigBambi: yes, non-combos are better |
| 23:30:04 | BigBambi | But the prev and next buttons are on the side, and therefore feel a bit like up and down |
| 23:30:22 | Buschel | amiconn: it will be, if the file uses PNS. this should only be used for low bitrates |
| 23:30:24 | BigBambi | Llorean: It is if you have wide mode on, and want to scroll left and right by characters not by pages |
| 23:30:38 | amiconn | aha |
| 23:30:45 | Llorean | BigBambi: Wouldn't Left/Right be better for scrolling horizontally, and Prev/Next be better for line or even page downs? |
| 23:31:31 | BigBambi | Llorean: Page left/right, scroll left/right, page up/down and scroll up/down all exist, I'm just adding some definitions for missing ones |
| 23:31:50 | Llorean | BigBambi: Just because ones exist doesn't mean they can't be changed so the overall scheme makes more sense, though... |
| 23:31:57 | BigBambi | Llorean: I agree |
| 23:32:04 | | Join bughunter2 [0] (n=Jelle@ip565fbeaa.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 23:32:06 | BigBambi | At the moment, page up/down is vol up/down |
| 23:32:17 | BigBambi | scroll up down (by lines) is up/down |
| 23:32:18 | Llorean | I'd strongly, *strongly* suggest trying to come up with a scheme that leaves the volume free. |
| 23:32:32 | BigBambi | and page left/right and character up right is not set |
| 23:32:41 | Llorean | I'd very much like to see the volume buttons actually controlling volume one day on targets with explicit ones. |
| 23:32:45 | BigBambi | *character left/right |
| 23:33:01 | BigBambi | Llorean: So I think up/down should be line up/down |
| 23:33:16 | BigBambi | And prev/next should be page up/down |
| 23:33:20 | Llorean | Since audio is the primary function anyway, I'd rather see a few combos go in leaving volume free, than using it for a function just so we can take that function away later. |
| 23:33:24 | | Join faemir [0] (n=daniel@88-106-142-213.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:33:30 | BigBambi | charcter left/right should be left/right |
| 23:33:41 | BigBambi | and then page left/right a combo + left/right |
| 23:33:55 | * | Llorean doesn't use text viewer, so he probably shouldn't be listened to though. :-P |
| 23:34:01 | BigBambi | Any thoughts, + preferences for the combo button left/right? |
| 23:34:13 | BigBambi | This would leave volume up/down free |
| 23:34:22 | * | Buschel is really satisfied with green after adding files for the first time ;-) |
| 23:34:38 | faemir | Can someone tell me the formats that that text reader in rockbox supports? |
| 23:34:42 | Llorean | I have an inbuilt preference for my combo button to be whatever's used as Play/Pause elsewhere, just out of long standing habit. |
| 23:34:45 | faemir | (Besides .txt obviously) |
| 23:34:57 | BigBambi | that's about it AFAIK |
| 23:35:01 | n1s | Buschel: couldn't that Parity array be encoded in 8 32 bit ints instead of 256 chars? |
| 23:35:18 | BigBambi | faemir: you can open others with the open with on the context menu |
| 23:35:43 | faemir | BigBambi: so no .docs? :P |
| 23:35:52 | Seed | Buschel: stop optimizing MPC. it'll become too fast ;) |
| 23:35:55 | BigBambi | Llorean: I can't see any obvious choices for combos on the S that can be done one handed |
| 23:36:03 | BigBambi | faemir: :) |
| 23:36:21 | faemir | Darn :( |
| 23:36:29 | faemir | pdfs? XD |
| 23:36:40 | Buschel | seed: no speed up this time |
| 23:36:43 | bluebrother | faemir: is .doc a text format? |
| 23:36:44 | saratoga | so i've defined RB_PROFILE in the makefile, and again in profile.c to make sure its getting compiled, and i see it in rockbox.map |
| 23:36:58 | saratoga | yet vorbis.c still fails with an undefined reference to the profile functions |
| 23:37:15 | saratoga | i don't understand how something could be compiled but not visable to the linker |
| 23:37:21 | faemir | bluebrother: I dunno. |
| 23:37:39 | BigBambi | Llorean: I could use volume - you can adjust audio via a menu - not as handy I know, but using a combo on the S pretty much requires two handed use) |
| 23:38:26 | bluebrother | saratoga: I could imagine every compile unit being fine but some exported stuff is missing upon linking |
| 23:38:30 | linuxstb | BigBambi: I almost never use the text viewer, so my preference would be the same as Llorean - keep volume for volume |
| 23:38:38 | amiconn | Combos almost always require two handed use, if only for holding the thing when pressing two buttons at once with the other hand |
| 23:38:51 | BigBambi | linuxstb: looking at the S, could you suggest a combo then to do page left/right? |
| 23:39:11 | Llorean | BigBambi: Personally, I'd like the "page" movement to be without combo, the "fine" movement to be with combo, and Volume to be explicit. A loud song can come suddenly, and having to quit or hassle with menus to adjust it is frustrating. :0 |
| 23:39:14 | amiconn | The only exception I know so far are Mode+Left and Mode+Down on Ondio (can be pressed with just the thumb, as they're adjacent) |
| 23:39:34 | | Quit K4rP4D ("Leaving") |
| 23:40:00 | BigBambi | Llorean: I agree about the volume, but I prefer fine movement left and right to without combo - if the entire screen jumps left or right I find it hard to kep my place |
| 23:40:20 | BigBambi | Llorean: But notwithstanding that, what key would you use for the combo? |
| 23:40:20 | saratoga | bluebrother: but if it compiles the c file, it got the function definition out of the header, and if its in the map file it compiled the function too, so why wouldn't it be able to put the two together? |
| 23:40:26 | Llorean | BigBambi: Left/Right I suppose I could go either way. |
| 23:40:52 | BigBambi | Llorean: Up down and page up/down we have enough keys for no combo needed |
| 23:40:59 | BigBambi | It is just left/right |
| 23:40:59 | Llorean | BigBambi: Play/Pause. It's in a good enough place anyway, I think |
| 23:41:08 | BigBambi | OK |
| 23:41:13 | BigBambi | seems reasonable |
| 23:41:14 | bluebrother | saratoga: hmm −− maybe that function has been made static? |
| 23:42:00 | bluebrother | can you pastebin the error somewhere? Even if I might not be helpful I'm kinda interested ;-) |
| 23:42:59 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:43:18 | saratoga | bluebrother: http://pastebin.com/m18065def |
| 23:43:33 | amiconn | Buschel: This is just a clean split of the arm asm, right? |
| 23:44:22 | Buschel | basically yes. |
| 23:44:46 | Buschel | the asm routines do the same than before. |
| 23:47:02 | n1s | saratoga do you call them through the codec api? |
| 23:48:20 | saratoga | n1s: they're only exposed as function pointers? |
| 23:49:09 | n1s | yes, they are in codecs.[ch] like any other function you would call |
| 23:52:12 | bluebrother | hmm −− "undefined reference to `__cyg_profile_func_enter'". Does "cyg" stand for cygwin? |
| 23:52:12 | | Join nplus [0] (n=nplus@141.25.globcom.net) |
| 23:54:07 | | Quit dabujo_ (Connection timed out) |
| 23:54:20 | n1s | what should the argument for profile_thread be? |
| 23:54:30 | saratoga | n1s: no arguements |
| 23:54:36 | saratoga | bluebrother: I have a patch for that problem |
| 23:54:42 | saratoga | let me post it |
| 23:54:55 | n1s | ah, I can't read :) |
| 23:56:55 | saratoga | bluebrother: http://pastebin.com/m496642cd |
| 23:57:12 | BigBambi | Llorean: Nope, using BUTTON_PLAY | BUTTON_REL means it still starts auto scrolling when you use play as the combo button, just on release rather than at the start |
| 23:57:56 | BigBambi | I could move quit to power, and use back as the combo button |
| 23:58:13 | n1s | BigBambi: you can set the precodition to avoid that |
| 23:58:23 | BigBambi | n1s: In the text viewer? |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).