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#rockbox log for 2008-05-29

00:02:18BagderI'm off to bed now
00:02:31*petur finally took the time to give all his devcon07 pictures a more permanent spot:
00:04:18 Join Zarggg [0] (
00:05:37*scorche|sh wants devcon time to hurry up and get here
00:06:34*Hillshum wants tomorrow to come
00:06:38 Quit SUSaiyan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:07:04*petur just noticed tomorrow is here
00:07:11 Join cbr|w [0] (n=cbr@
00:07:29petur00:07 here now
00:07:39*Bagder just nosticed the two movie clips in the slide show of petur's pics...
00:07:45Hillshumnot in Utah
00:08:21peturthere is another movie clip that is too big for picasaweb
00:09:52Bagder"Please note that our restaurant offers an all-you-can-eat-all-you-can-drink breakfast buffet for 5,90 Euro per person"
00:10:14peturyes I saw that too
00:10:27peturand we get 10% off as guests
00:10:42peturerm, for lunch that is
00:10:52kugelI can't seem to get the simulator output into a file
00:11:00Bagdernow I'm off for real
00:11:06kugel./rockboxui > text.txt ? doesn't work
00:11:18LloreanTry &>
00:12:11kugelLlorean: Thanks! What is the difference between those?
00:12:32Llorean> just redirects stdout, &> redirects stdout and stderr, iiuc.
00:13:17 Quit n1s ()
00:13:58kugelSo, DEBUGF sends it to stderr? Anyway, thanks
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01:49:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:21:35RobbieGDoes album art support come built into the current build for iRiver H10 20GB? Or do I need a special patch?
03:22:19Skreamit should
03:22:26Skreami havent used an i river
03:22:31JdGordonit does
03:22:42Skreambut usually builds are similar through systems, personally i use a sansa and it does
03:23:05Skreamu might need a certain theme though, only some themes display album art
03:23:24RobbieGI'm using a custom build from a while ago that included an album art patch to make it work.
03:23:30RobbieGThanks for the help!
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03:49:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:58:02 Join Davide-NYC [0] (
03:58:04cool_walking_There's a $20 s30 (doesn't power on) and $40 s60 (works, cracked screen) on ebay, both with 30m left.
03:58:47Davide-NYCHello all.
03:59:57 Join jhulst_ [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
04:00:42Davide-NYCdo you know what the "send me thermistors" comment by JhMikeS is all about?
04:00:55Davide-NYCjhMikeS: ping
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04:01:18Davide-NYCtalk to me toffe82~
04:01:20toffe82it is a component on the board of the gigabeat S
04:01:38toffe82so if you have a broken board, you can send it to him
04:01:47Davide-NYCgotcha. What does it do?
04:01:53Davide-NYC(the thermistor)
04:01:56jhMikeSDavide-NYC: pon
04:02:22jhMikeSit's to measure batt temp btw
04:02:23Davide-NYCjhMikeS: we're talking about thermistors, why you want them, how to get them and what they are doing to america's children
04:02:55Davide-NYCit's a failsafe for potential exploding batterie?
04:02:57jhMikeSthermistors are definitely what's wrong with america today
04:03:41jhMikeSyou want to monitor battery temp and avoid/stop charging if it's out of range
04:04:23jhMikeSyou definitely don't want to bring the battery to hardware failsafe points since those can be unrecoverable
04:05:10Davide-NYCI see, so we're a bunch of woosies.
04:05:38Davide-NYCIf I come across a dead GBS I will certainly procure it and send it your way
04:05:52jhMikeSif you like flames and such, just remove the battery safety circuits and max it all out :)
04:06:59Davide-NYCRock On!
04:07:20Davide-NYCI think I'm being censored a bit.
04:07:28jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I'm just trying to gather data for more than one (unless we get luckly enough to get a datasheet on that part somehow). btw, you mentioned getting me a spare x5 main pcb :)
04:07:40 Join HuitZiloP [0] (n=chatzill@
04:07:40Davide-NYCOh yeah.
04:07:47Davide-NYCI'll have that in the mail manana!~
04:08:10HuitZiloPsup everyone
04:08:20HuitZiloPif I install rockbox will I lose my music?
04:08:30 Part Llorean
04:08:48HuitZiloPbut if I don'tlike it I do have t restore it, right?
04:08:48cool_walking_You may not be able to play it in Rockbox though, if it's DRM'd.
04:09:06HuitZiloPso I'll have to load 'em again?
04:09:25cool_walking_Rockbox dual-boots, so if you don't like it, you don't have to uninstall it.
04:09:33HuitZiloPohhh thanks a lot man!!!!!
04:09:42cool_walking_But if you do uninstall, you probably would lose have to format then.
04:09:58HuitZiloPoh, ok, thanks a lot
04:10:09HuitZiloPbe back when I'm done and tell ya how it went
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04:19:25*Davide-NYC laments the non-existance of an iRiver H5x0 player (w optical I/O)
04:22:00Davide-NYCjhMikeS: How do you feel about Petur's Hold-Charge idea?
04:22:39LloreanHold charge can't work on the Ondio or FM Recorder or M3. There's really no way it can be cross-target consistent.
04:22:51LloreanI don't see how it's really considerable if the goal is to make it more consistent.
04:23:47Davide-NYCWell I had posted a slution for that but it dissappeared somehow
04:24:07Davide-NYCI suggested that a news menu item be created.
04:24:17Davide-NYCNevermind. I'll put in the tracker
04:24:28LloreanHow does a new menu item fix it?
04:24:40LloreanIf a menu item was acceptable, there'd be no reason to have the hold switch do it in the first place.
04:24:58Davide-NYCbecause it is SOOOO elegant for target with a hold switch
04:25:07LloreanNo, it's really not.
04:25:11LloreanIt might be for you, but not for everyone.
04:25:13jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I don't know...hold is the least "invasive" button press but feels weird to me
04:25:19Davide-NYCyou can't win (or lose) thatone
04:25:24Davide-NYCI find it elegant
04:25:31LloreanAs I said though, it's not for everyone
04:25:42LloreanSo why not discuss issues that are objective, such as "can it be done on all targets"
04:25:45Davide-NYCthat's why I suggested what I suggested.
04:25:54LloreanWhat's *wrong* with holding a button?
04:26:03LloreanEspecially when the user can hold *any* button?
04:26:22LloreanWe've had people holding Menu on targets for years now without finding it too difficult to manage.
04:26:58jhMikeSMy main dislike of holding a button is that it causes some other action to be performed in the menus or whatever and you don't know where it might be invoked from and what the side-effect might be (say, from a plugin)
04:27:24 Join antler [0] (n=antler@
04:27:36LloreanjhMikeS: My suggestion is that any button when held down works, so the user can pick their favorite button in terms of "what it causes to happen" for that screen.
04:27:41Davide-NYCDrastic idea: Since I've always hated it and found it redundant and counter intuitive, how about KILLING the quickscreen?
04:27:46LloreanFor example, holding "Left" is pretty safe in nearly any screen
04:27:59LloreanDavide-NYC: How is it counter-intuitive?
04:28:12Davide-NYCAll settings are found in the menu
04:28:22LloreanThat's not counter-intuitive...
04:28:34LloreanThat's "redundant" possibly.
04:28:36Davide-NYCBut only a few are in the quickscreen and never change any of them.
04:28:40*jhMikeS gets a nutty idea...
04:28:50*Davide-NYC excited
04:28:55LloreanDavide-NYC: Some of us use the two of the three quickscreen options several times a day.
04:29:02LloreanI think the files one is redundant though
04:29:05LloreanEr file view
04:29:26LloreanBut what does that have to do with USB connection. If the quickscreen were removed, that button would just get another function instead.
04:29:35antlerskimmed the manual for my rockbox ipod 5.5G and i don't recall it saying anything about uninstalling apps. is it possible to uninstall the apps that i don't use in rockbox, e.g., metronome?
04:29:40jhMikeSPlug the USB allow 1 second to connect, if pulled before connect allows two seconds to be plugged again which enters charge-only mode.
04:29:50Lloreanantler: Just delete the .rock files, but there's on reason to remove them.
04:30:11Davide-NYCjhMikeS: too much strain on the connector
04:30:13LloreanjhMikeS: Part of the idea was not to have a delay. Otherwise we could just have it pop up a menu that says "Connecting, press Select to cancel" for 2 seconds.
04:30:33Davide-NYCI really like htat aactually
04:30:36antlerthank, Llorean. for me, the only way to exit metronome, for example, is to shut down the ipod−−i don't like that.
04:30:43Davide-NYC2 second mount delay sounds perfect
04:30:53 Join Edd [0] (n=40d3757d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:30:54jhMikeSthere would only be a tiny delay and a longer one if you unplug within the initial period only
04:31:00Davide-NYCantler: that sounds like a bug
04:31:08LloreanIs it really so frustrating to press a button the few times you need to connect?
04:31:16 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
04:31:20LloreanIf you can press it after, surely you can press it *during*
04:31:25Davide-NYCjhMikeS: I do not want to put more wear than necessary on my precious and discontinued eletronics
04:31:49antlerDavide-NYC: could be. i did install w/ the latest win32 installer, though.
04:31:58Davide-NYCbut by pressing after you are not interacting with the rockbox UI
04:32:02Lloreanantler: Did you check the manual to find out how to exit?
04:32:05jhMikeSactually, if the delay isn't minded, then the button context can be overridden during the delay period which makes more sense and doesn't have bad side-effects
04:32:21antlerLlorean: ... checking now.
04:32:31LloreanDavide-NYC: And popping up the quickscreen doesn't interact with the Rockbox UI because the USB connection screen will remove it anyway...
04:32:36Davide-NYCantler: I bet you are just not using the right button, it may not be consistent (unfortunatley the plugins are not all consistent)
04:32:52LloreanIf your default is "don't connect" and you hold Menu while connecting, the Quickscreen will show up, then immediately vanish to the USB screen.
04:33:11Davide-NYCwait, I'm not understanding
04:33:53EddSorry if this is a dumb question. Does anyone know if a feature like libmikmod support (8806) is likely to make it into regular rockbox releases?
04:33:55antlerDavide-NYC: that's probably it. checking manual now.
04:34:01Davide-NYCyou cannot press menu and connect the USB cable at *exactly* the same millisecond
04:34:08*Llorean sighs
04:34:23LloreanDavide-NYC: Holding Menu just pops up the quickscreen. What can you do, on the quickscreen, without pressing ANY other button, before USB is plugged in?
04:34:26jhMikeSdoes any OF do this sort of thing?
04:34:40Davide-NYCthat's inelegant, sorry
04:34:44LloreanjhMikeS: Most OFs just connect, then you can eject the device to continue charging.
04:35:06*Davide-NYC didn't ever think of that
04:35:08LloreanDavide-NYC: That's a bullshit excuse, frankly. It's functional, it prevents accidents, it doesn't slow down connection pointlessly, and it allows the feature to work on all targets.
04:35:27Davide-NYC2 seconds! that's not a long delay
04:35:34Davide-NYCwhere are you running to?
04:35:41Davide-NYCWhat's the rush?
04:35:49LloreanWhy have a delay if it's 100% unnecessary?
04:36:07LloreanYou could even make the quickscreen come up on release of menu, instead of on press.
04:36:11LloreanThat way you never see it if holding Menu
04:36:17Davide-NYCnow you're talking
04:36:29Davide-NYCthat's a solution
04:36:47LloreanBut why are we so concerned about trivial matters of appearance over making the feature work quickly, and reducing accidents?
04:37:05Davide-NYCI'm not sure what you mean by accidents?
04:37:11LloreanWith the hold switch method
04:37:26LloreanPeople will plug in their devices, have it not connect, and file bug reports. I guarantee it.
04:37:45Davide-NYCAh, but not if the screen displays a clear message
04:37:56LloreanOr bump a button within 2 seconds, have their device not connect, and write bug reports saying "Sometimes my device doesn't connect" because they don't even look at the screen.
04:38:11LloreanWhy not have a method that's very, extremely explicit.
04:38:22jhMikeSI personally find it a bit inelegant to have the UI going into various screens on connect and given that key input isn't managed anyway no nice solution exists to assign keyboard input to a particular screen and deny others.
04:38:24Davide-NYCThat wouldnot happen if we just went with Petur's idea with clear messaging
04:38:29LloreanCommon sense dictates that once your USB cable is plugged in, user input is not wanted on the device.
04:38:58Davide-NYCwhich is why Petur's idea of reversing the behavior is so elegant
04:39:05scorcheLlorean: unless it is to charge
04:39:18Lloreanscorche: Yes, but then you've put in user input *before* the connection.
04:39:19antlerhm...ok. to exit metronome press menu. did that just now and yesterday. can't exit. oh well, no biggie.
04:39:29LloreanDavide-NYC: Reversing what behaviour?
04:39:35jhMikeSsomtimes "KISS" leads to making things harder in the long run :\
04:39:37Davide-NYCHold ON = Disk mode
04:39:40scorcheLlorean: sorry...thought you were speaking in a general case and not to this specific one
04:39:41LloreanI think any time you ask a user to press something *after* the cable is connected, it goes against common sense.
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04:40:14LloreanDavide-NYC: I've already explained why having hold on vs off is going to inspire bug reports. Reversing it just means it'll charge, and they'll come in saying "Why doesn't Rockbox connect to USB?"
04:40:16Davide-NYCLlorean: the hold switch is always set before the cable is pluggedin AFAIU
04:40:39LloreanThe default behaviour should, absolutely, be "if the user doesn't do anything, plugging in a USB cable connects USB"
04:40:40Davide-NYCBut Llorean, if the screen displays a clear message this will not happen
04:40:43LloreanThis is what 99% of users will expect
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04:40:59LloreanWhat message could the screen possibly display when charging that doesn't interfere with the UI?
04:41:03*jhMikeS just backs out and leave Davide-NYC and Llorean to fight :p
04:41:35Davide-NYCCrap. You got me.
04:42:10LloreanThe one point I'm adamant on, though, is that USB connection behaviour needs to, by default install, be "plug in cable, USB connects" with nothing needing done by the user.
04:42:24Davide-NYCNo argument on that
04:42:37LloreanWhich means USB connection needs to be "Hold off" or "no buttons pressed" by default.
04:43:11cool_walking_But "hold on/off" isn't really something that is done by the user. It's just the last state it was in.
04:43:30cool_walking_Usually hold is on when I connect my iPod because it's just been in my pocket
04:43:37Lloreancool_walking_: That's kinda my point. It's not explicit enough, and it's prone to accidents (or clueless users thinking sometihng's broken because they don't realize it changes behaviour other than ignoring buttons)
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04:44:04Davide-NYCLlorean: you win because you are right. There is no way to tell the user what is "wrong" without interfering with the UI
04:44:23LloreanDavide-NYC: I think in most cases there are "mostly" non-interfering buttons
04:44:29*Davide-NYC imagines flashing a message periodically and vomits
04:44:32LloreanHolding "Left" for example is "safe" 99.99% of the time
04:44:44Davide-NYCnah, just use the quickscreen button
04:44:54Davide-NYCdoes the QS button exist on all targets?
04:45:05LloreanWell I still think "any button" is the best choice. Leaves it up to the user, they can pick a button they feel comfortable pressing and know where it'll end up
04:45:13LloreanOndio doesn't have a quickscreen I believe
04:45:38Davide-NYCthat's not good because it'll cause music to stop playing or tracks to be skipped or what have you unintended behavior
04:45:56Davide-NYCthink of emergency charging during a DJ set at a party
04:46:09LloreanUse the context menu button instead, then.
04:46:24LloreanThere's usually one or two buttons that can be held without interfering functionally, just changing the screen.
04:46:29Davide-NYCwhich button is that (on an h1x0 for example)
04:46:41Davide-NYCthat'll work
04:46:44LloreanIt's the one we currently use for e200s
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04:47:12Davide-NYCSo is this settled?
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04:47:44LloreanI'm sure it'll never be settled until someone actually codes up a patch and commits it.
04:47:50LloreanSomeone will always come up with a new point.
04:47:57cool_walking_Couldn't you potentially (though unlikely) do dangerous things with Select, like deleting a file?
04:48:09Lloreancool_walking_: Only if you press it more than once.
04:48:19LloreanLike, several times, with an up and down included.
04:48:45Davide-NYCsorry to continue this, but I prefer the QS buttong
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04:49:20LloreanI prefer the QS button too, where available, but think Select on some players makes more sense (much easier to get to on the e200, for example)
04:49:32LloreanThat's why I'm in favour of "any button". The user can pick their preference, and not really care.
04:49:45Davide-NYCWait! Unless the context menu appears on release of SELECT
04:49:59Lloreanthe problem with that is that it makes using it a hassle.
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04:50:08LloreanCurrently you know you've held select long enough *because* the menu comes up
04:50:24*Davide-NYC urghh
04:50:26Lloreanif it's on release you'll be holding it for an uncertain amount of time. If you release it too early, you just entered a folder or played a song.
04:50:27JdGordoncan rb play .m4a?
04:50:34LloreanJdGordon: If unencrypted, yes.
04:50:49JdGordonI assume a torrent would be :)
04:50:55LloreanUsually, yes
04:51:04Llorean's just AAC usually
04:51:14Davide-NYCI'm playing one now
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04:53:12EddThink rockbox will eventually support mod files in a default install?
04:53:18LloreanOne day
04:53:25LloreanSome mod files already are
04:54:04LloreanAs of the 21st of this month.
04:54:25EddCool. Are it, s3m & xm a part of that?
04:54:40LloreanI don't know, but I think it's limited to just .mod right now.
04:55:28Eddok. I think I've seen the task for that. I was hoping another one was coming along.
04:55:49LloreanIt'll come along if people interested in it do the work. Just like everything else in rockbox. :)
04:55:53Davide-NYCLlorean: do we have any real numbers as to how many users we have for each target. Is there any way to figure this out?
04:56:05LloreanDavide-NYC: The best we have is just download counts for a given month.
04:56:06EddSounds like a possibility though. I'll keep watching. Thanks.
04:56:07LloreanNot terribly useful.
04:56:30Davide-NYCmaybe eliminating redundant downloads by unique IP?
04:56:36Davide-NYCIt would be closer
04:56:57LloreanI dunno. A lot of people stick with old, stable builds. A lot of people in X community use unsupported builds. Etc, etc.
04:57:12LloreanPlus it doesn't show anything about people who compile their own builds.
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04:57:27jhMikeSsurveys ? :)
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04:57:35LloreanWe could try some sort of poll.
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04:58:01alienbiker99how do i find what dock connector pinouts are by testing
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04:58:31jhMikeSamiconn is exempt because he'll skew the grayscale target count :)
04:58:31Davide-NYCbut people would have to see the poll
04:59:00LloreanThe main thing is that the count is probably always going to be higher among the newest targets.
04:59:09LloreanEven avid fans of the older targets are probably going to gradually download them less often.
04:59:33LloreanI think the majority of our users are iPod Video, e200, and iPod Nano?
04:59:55Davide-NYCno way. H1x0
05:00:07*Davide-NYC duck
05:00:08JdGordonthe downoad stats also is only for the svn build... it doesnt count
05:00:30LloreanWhich means it basically rules out the blind community, who tend to stick more to dailies since then the voice matches exactly
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05:01:26Davide-NYCI'm building some sims to see if I can;t figure this damn charge only option out
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05:01:33*jhMikeS tends to have specialty players like gigabeats (video), x5 (best sounding), H120 (best recording), etc.
05:02:13Davide-NYCwow, in your opinion the X5 sounds noticably better than the H1x0 series?
05:02:18LloreanGigabeat is "it cost me the least of my HD targets, so it gets to leave the house"
05:02:30LloreanThe H1x0 has a significant hiss that I'm not fond of.
05:02:41saratogai pretty much just use the sansa for everything, its so nice and small
05:02:46*Davide-NYC must be going deaf in his old age. Or I listen to loud rock music.
05:03:16jhMikeSDavide-NYC: indeed. much clearer and spatial sounds actually sound external in the headphones which I haven't heard on others.
05:03:51Davide-NYCjhMikeS: I'm impressed by this opinion. I've never owned an X5.
05:03:53LloreanMaybe this "Rockbox Player" will set a new standard. ;)
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05:04:14jhMikeSit's freaked me out a few times since I thought something was coming from outside
05:04:17Davide-NYCI really hope to see that come to fruition. I'd certainly purchase one.
05:04:21*scorche wonders if Rockbox Player has filled the void left by Zunelinux
05:04:42*Davide-NYC senses sarcasm?
05:05:12*jhMikeS didn't know Zunelinux ever made a void
05:05:23LloreanDavide-NYC: Evidence suggests that it's not going to become something particularly appealing.
05:05:47scorchejhMikeS: i dont think they made anything, actually ;)
05:05:47*Davide-NYC is bummed
05:06:18LloreanMostly because it sounds like they're trying to simply build an open, but more expensive, alternative to existing players more than filling a void in the current selection of available gadgets.
05:08:59Davide-NYCwell, they said it was going to have optical I/O, which no exists in any produced consumer grade target
05:09:21*Davide-NYC why can't I type properly?
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05:10:12jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I think the beast may be a close contender but I haven't listened to very much on that yet
05:10:38LloreanDavide-NYC: I think they were just considering optical since it was much wanted.
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05:10:53LloreanAs it stands, software USB offers a sort of option for digital audio in/out anyway.
05:10:53Davide-NYCLlorean: that would make it viable IMO
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05:11:19jhMikeSDavide-NYC: there are professional grade DAPs available?
05:11:28Davide-NYCwould software USB allow for high bitrate/bitdepth recording?
05:11:47Davide-NYCjhMikeS: well they would be considered DARs.
05:12:30scorcheDavide-NYC: how would it allow for a higher bitrate than what the DAC can process?
05:12:42jhMikeSthe gigabeats have direct I2S lines on the connectors so an external codec could be hooked in
05:12:59Lloreanscorche: Well for digital recording, no DAC is necessarily involved
05:13:20LloreanYou won't be able to playback, but you USB allows for data rates vastly higher than any audio you're ever likely to want to record.
05:13:34scorcheLlorean: is he suggesting we just use the device as a portable hard drive then?
05:13:44Davide-NYCLlorean: don;t be so sure, 16bit 44.1kHz is doo doo is some circles
05:13:45LloreanThat's more or less what digital recording is, anyway.
05:13:55LloreanDavide-NYC: 480Mbps.
05:14:15LloreanYou can run an HD-DVD with lossless 7.1 audio over a USB connection.
05:14:30Davide-NYCI like the sound of that
05:14:54LloreanJdGordon: True, theoretical. But audio, even really high grade, isn't going to approach a significant fraction of that even.
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05:26:59*Davide-NYC AFK
05:27:47scorcheyou dont need to do that..
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05:45:38Davide-NYCscorche: noted. won't do it again
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08:02:51irivermanhay everyone
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08:03:32irivermani was wondering if anyone could help me with some problems i am having
08:03:49irivermanis anyone there?
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08:05:14irivermanguess not this must be a dead chat room
08:05:49B4gderwe haven't seen any question
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08:06:09B4gderis that the question?
08:06:30kennyjsome people don't understand that IRC is not an AOL chatroom.
08:09:22fleytinkennyj: Yeah, they really don't. At least I myself didn't when I got to irt for a first time.
08:11:11LinusNwell, that of course depends on the channel
08:12:27fleytinLinusN: Agreed.
08:14:29fleytinBTW, I wonder are there any plays to add a speech support in rockbox while playback is paused. If there is anyone who is able to answer the question, of course.
08:14:56B4gderfleytin: I don't think anyone is working particularly hard on that issue atm
08:15:18LinusNyes there are plans, but it requires some major changes to the audio drivers
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08:15:53LinusNwell, not exactly major, but somewhat tricky
08:18:16LinusNyou see, to pause the music, rockbox stops the audio DMA, which in turn prevents any audio playback. we need to change the playback subsystem to only stop the audio decoding and not the DMA. that in turn requires some changes to the playback code, and also a new audio mixing strategy.
08:19:11LinusNwow - that sounded almost like a mission statement. i should buy a suit. :-)
08:19:33*B4gder sees a pointy hair subject
08:19:49LinusNif i had hair, that is... :-P
08:20:32fleytinThanks for the answers! :-)
08:27:12amiconnLinusN: red....
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08:29:25LinusNamiconn: do you think it's koscher to use #ifdef ADC_ACCESSORY?
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08:30:17LinusNi'll do that, it's only a debug menu after all
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09:32:52peturhmmm seems the X5 doesn't like CF
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11:04:20amiconnpetur: Guess it's just the rockbox bootloader. Latest official one is from before your CF related ata changes
11:04:59peturoh.... I misread that as using latest svn bootloader....
11:06:01peturalthough... "X5 Bootloader updated to current build"
11:06:36peturbootloader version = r17428M
11:07:44JdGordonarg, WTF?
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11:15:38JdGordonarg crap!
11:16:40JdGordonhmm... might be ok actually...
11:17:54*petur looks at the above lines from JdGordon and goes to edit the GoldenQuotes page ;)
11:20:23JdGordonthey arnt that special :'(
11:21:57*petur was just joking... it looks funny from here though ;)
11:22:40*JdGordon remembers to do more commentry for the channel
11:22:55JdGordonyippe :)
11:24:34JdGordon:) nice n harmless delta to go with the green row
11:25:09JdGordonpetur: you havnt done anything about stripping the drawing code out of the main loop in the rec screen yet have you?
11:25:39peturnot much... no time at all :(
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11:30:43JdGordonanyone feel like doing a quick find/replace in the source for HAS_BUTTONBAR to HAVE_BUTTONBAR ?
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13:04:05JdGordonanyone feel like testing out a patch to make sure i didnt just break the fm screen?
13:16:22Shaidnah. commit it and wait for the chaos. ;)
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13:20:03JdGordonhow did you guess :p
13:22:00JdGordonholy crap! green row.... I wasnt expting that :p
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13:45:59PaulJam_fm screen still looks fine on h300
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13:48:09PaulJam_i was just wondering, would something like FS #9024 be possible for h300 too? the radio is noticeably more silent than music playback.
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16:03:25lolmausHey amiconn, are you online? ^_^
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16:05:05JdGordonPaulJam: whats 9044?
16:07:42PaulJamJdGordon: slight misalignment in the delete screen. happenes after your changes to the yes/no screen.
16:08:44PaulJamnot a big issue, but you said you are bored :)
16:09:16JdGordonah but that was an hour ago... now im tired :p
16:09:22JdGordonbut ill have a looky
16:10:11PaulJami just thought since you recently worked on that code you might know whats going on.
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16:12:33JdGordonyou sure thats 8 pixels?
16:13:29LloreanLooks like ~4
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16:14:42PaulJami'm quite sure the text is 8 pixel too high
16:15:41LloreanOh, sorry, I was looking at the wrong thing
16:17:30JdGordonyep, thats pretty odd :p
16:18:07JdGordonit works fine with the statusbar disabled?
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16:19:58PaulJamyes, thats why i wrote it.
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16:21:13JdGordonwell im pretty confused... the statusbar isnt being updated during the delete...
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16:28:36JdGordonPaulJam: do you know what change broke it?
16:28:43PaulJamwell, my guess is, that the code that draws the currently deleted dir does not take into account if the statusbar is shown or not, because the text is always at the same position. but maybe this is just a coincidence.
16:29:31PaulJamJdGordon: r17454
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16:37:15*JdGordon opts for the easy fix and changes that message to a splash()
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16:48:19JdGordonwe have too many ruddy lcd drivers :p
16:48:46LambdaCalculus37We have too many ruddy platforms with too many unique LCDs. :)
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16:52:52LloreanJdGordon: Didn't the deletion screen used to have a splash, and it was changed from a splash to that?
16:53:16JdGordonvery possibly :p
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17:01:46JdGordonPaulJam: in the same vien as 9044... can you test 9051?
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17:02:07*JdGordon going postal on the old gui api!
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17:07:51PaulJami can test the patch. anything in particular i should look out for?
17:08:18JdGordonany screen which are now being put in the top left corner instead of where they shold be...
17:08:31JdGordonI tihnk i only expcet the recorindg screen to not play nice
17:08:40*JdGordon heading to bed
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18:33:29LloreanDo we know how much CPU load on Gigabeat (F) is likely to affect battery life, since we don't do manual scaling?
18:34:28markunLlorean: kkurbjun now has a nice test setup with his gigabeat connected to his PC (JTAG) and a multimeter, you could ask him.
18:34:42LloreanAh, thanks.
18:35:06LloreanI was just wondering if it would make sense to have "High quality" and "Fast" versions of some codecs (ones where we sacrifice a little precision for speed)
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18:54:33lolmausHey amiconn, are you online? ^_^
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19:08:52XbooXLlorean: Are you online? I would like to speak with you.
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20:31:49bertrikhi _vertic23
20:32:00_vertic23I am just looking for the devcon
20:32:06_vertic23I will be there with a friend from berlin
20:33:20scorche|shwell, there is a wiki page on it, but what were you planning on doing?
20:35:40_vertic23bringing lots of beer
20:36:09_vertic23well, from when to when will it be?
20:36:22_vertic23from 7 am?
20:36:53scorche|shunsure yet...whenever we decide to get up and head to the meeting place, i suppose
20:36:58linuxstbThis page lists the details, and when people are planning on arriving -
20:37:03pixelmaand in case you wanted to stay a bit longer you should really put your name on said wiki page - would be nice to know beforehand how many people intend to show up
20:37:32_vertic23well, how do you mean "staying longer"?
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20:37:51scorche|sh_vertic23: well, it is more than one day as shown by the wiki page
20:38:02_vertic23well, so what'd be the difference
20:38:30pixelmamaybe a bigger room would be needed, hardware, food and beverage...
20:38:37_vertic23my friend is living in berlin, so we might show up and go and show up and go :P
20:38:38scorche|shwere you planning on hanging around all days?
20:38:52_vertic23we'll see - if you're cool guys - might be
20:39:43scorche|shand keep in mind that there is a possibility that private things might be discussed and some may need to sit out
20:40:14_vertic23I have no problem with that s
20:40:24_vertic23since I have lots of drugs and weather will be fucking good ;)
20:40:38*scorche|sh chooses to ignore the last line ;)
20:40:49_vertic23oh, this chan is logged, damnit
20:41:03_vertic23could you please delete that ;P
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20:41:46pixelma_vertic23: do you intend to do some Rockbox hacking there (whatever that is) or just hang out?
20:42:03_vertic23maybe I will replace my HDD - is this hacking? *g*
20:43:20Llorean_vertic23: DevCon is where the developers get together to discuss and work on things that require or are greatly facilitated by face to face and a round table. It's really for work to be done.
20:43:44_vertic23yeah, I am anyways not there, I just realized
20:43:55_vertic23because a fucking cool festival takes place
20:44:19BigBambi_vertic23: calm down
20:44:38_vertic23yeah, I'll leave hehe, would have been cool meeting you guys
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20:45:07_vertic23but I will tell my friend to bring you the beer I wanted to give you
20:45:16_vertic23he will be there for sure
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20:45:26scorche|shsome of us will be around after, so who knows..
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20:45:50_vertic23we'll see
20:45:50domonokyand more beer cant hurt.. :-)
20:45:55BigBambimore beer never hurts
20:46:02_vertic23my friend is a big fan of you - and maybe you get him as a novice dev for your team
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21:12:42mcuelenaereanyone familiar with colinx/andlinux around?
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21:14:49Lloreanbluebrother: Ubuntu on Colinux.
21:15:05bluebrotherah. Never heard of that :o
21:15:23LloreanReally kubuntu or xubuntu, since there's not a gnome version of it.
21:15:27mcuelenaereyes, it was made for the gp2x community
21:15:37mcuelenaere(so a rather easy installation)
21:16:38Lloreanmcuelenaere: I've used it briefly. Wouldn't say I'm "familiar" though.
21:17:03mcuelenaereLlorean: do you know any tweaks/other ways of speeding up?
21:17:09mcuelenaereit's even slower than VMWare..
21:17:15mcuelenaerebut faster than cygwin
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21:18:10mcuelenaerealthough, the script ran 'make' (compiling arm gcc) compared to 'make'-ing Rockbox
21:18:30mcuelenaereI just installed it :)
21:18:32LloreanIf the disk image is fragmented it results in rather huge performance penalties.
21:18:48LloreanYes, but what you get is one giant file that's often fragmented across your normal filesystem.
21:18:53LloreanThe disk image that andlinux uses, that is.
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21:19:15mcuelenaereso you mean I should defragment my actual HDD?
21:19:25LloreanShut down andlinux, and defragment your normal hdd.
21:22:06LloreanI don't know if that's what's causing your slowness, but it's a good first thing to check.
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22:19:11LloreanjhMikeS: You here?
22:20:08 Join vertic23 [0] (
22:20:41LloreanjhMikeS: Well, anyway, for when you're around: Have you been using your Gigabeat F much recently? Since the touchpad changes to use more sensors, I've found I'm accidentally triggering directions when I'm going for "Select" quite often.
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22:24:48LloreanBasically, I find the device much harder to use reliably now.
22:26:46BigBambiThere is the flyspray report too
22:26:53LloreanFlyspray report?
22:26:55LloreanWhich one?
22:26:59BigBambione mo
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22:27:25BigBambiAlthough personally I find it easier to use now :)
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22:31:40LloreanAh, I never read the comments because when it was posted, it was about the device actually being unusable, rather than just too sensitive.
22:31:48 Quit amiconn (" reboot")
22:31:53LloreanI had no problems, at all, with the original method and found it quite easy to use.
22:32:04LloreanI wonder if it's possible that some touchpads are just quite a bit more sensitive than others.
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22:32:22scorche|shLlorean: i just updated that and thought it was just me
22:32:34*scorche|sh hasnt been a good boy and watching the commit changes
22:32:43LloreanI have a hell of a time playing Jewels now.
22:33:00jhMikeSLlorean: I'm here. It's much, much more useable for me but I prefer a light touch. I put a patch in FS to set it to Normal (like before) or high.
22:33:29BigBambiLlorean: I found the old one would sometimes not recognise a direction for me, and now it works all the time
22:33:47LloreanjhMikeS: Maybe if we turned on all the sensors, and counted the innermost ones as part of "Center" it would even things out?
22:33:48BigBambiLlorean: However, seeing as many people have issues, there clearly is a difference :)
22:33:49jhMikeSBigBambi: same experience
22:33:53LloreanLight touch for everything, but less false reads?
22:34:07LloreanBigBambi: I never, ever had it not pick up a read for me. :)
22:34:29jhMikeSIt disables inner sensors already if the center is pushed
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22:34:47scorche|shBigBambi: i "missed" directions too before, but i just got used to the device, i i get a direction when i want select
22:35:06LloreanjhMikeS: Yes, but I find it I'm very slightly off-center, it picks up as the direction, even though I feel about 2/3 of my thumb is on center, and 1/3 is on a direction.
22:35:07jhMikeSthe innermost I can see get triggered too easily before registering the center though
22:35:19BigBambiscorche|sh: I missed directions after using it for a year or more - now I don't, and I have had no false selects :)
22:35:20LloreanWhat if the innermost counted as "center" rather than "direction"
22:35:28LloreanSo you have LLCCCRR
22:35:35LloreanRather than LL_C_RR
22:35:40jhMikeSinnermost aren't used at all, just middle and outer
22:35:50LloreanI know they aren't now.
22:35:58LloreanI'm suggesting enabling them, as part of "Center"
22:36:15BigBambiI'd have to try it, but if there is no gap between centre and outer, I can imagine lots of falses, but as as I say it is something I'd have to try
22:36:22LloreanSee if that helps resolve the accidental directions.
22:36:45jhMikeSso, I'm not seeing how if you trigger middle direction sensors before center anyway how that will change things.
22:37:09LloreanjhMikeS: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying?
22:37:18LloreanIt checks for directions before it checks for center?
22:38:55jhMikeSthe middle direction sensors are already ignored if the center is detected so iow it reads only the outer ones if center is detected
22:39:15jhMikeSit checks center first so it can ignore middle direction lines
22:39:20LloreanDid this happen sometime recently?
22:39:55jhMikeSwhen I added the sensitivity change, that change went in with it
22:40:04LloreanI don't think it's working then.
22:40:26BigBambiI wouldn't object to a gigabeat specific option in this case
22:41:05LloreanOr perhaps it needs a little dead-time after center is released
22:41:19jhMikeSIt helps my device enough that I will fight to the bitter end to have it available :)
22:41:27LloreanAs I seem to get double triggers where it'll move down and immediately do select, or do select then move down.
22:41:48LloreanWell something needs to be done.
22:42:05Llorean"Less sensitive, but doesn't spaz out" trumps "more sensitive but spazs out for some users" any day, I think.
22:42:15LloreanThough I wouldn't object to an option, with it defaulting to "less"
22:42:26jhMikeSThe force needed on mine needs to increase quite a bit using just outer ones
22:43:02jhMikeSThe patch strongly defaults to "Normal" which is just like before and "High" enables checking the
22:43:08jhMikeS"+" lines
22:43:19BigBambiLlorean: yes, I agree - I prefer this, but missing the odd direction is better than false centres
22:43:30LloreanSee, I had to press less hard than say, the Menu button on my nano (physical button)
22:43:33BigBambiHowever, I prefer the patch as jhMikeS has done it
22:43:50BigBambidefaults to old, and those of us that want more sensitive can have it
22:43:59LloreanSo, if it was still a lighter touch than equivalent physical buttons, I didn't really see it as problematically hard to press...
22:44:02BigBambiLlorean: I'm just more sensitive than you :P
22:44:30jhMikeSthough in case your device becomes unusable as a result of "High" I may have a reset for the touchpad to avoid the annoyance of a full reset of settings
22:45:10LloreanjhMikeS: Maybe instead when you select "High" have it present another menu that says "Please scroll to and select 'Yes' to confirm" in which case if it's not working, they can't. And then just time out.
22:45:13LloreanLike video modes often do.
22:47:32BigBambiAnyone seen 9050 :)
22:48:06LloreanI wonder if I'll need that when traveling next month.
22:48:20LloreanIf I'm carrying 10 or so MP3 players loaded with audio I'll look slightly suspicious
22:48:20jhMikeSCould do that but I did want to stay minimalistic. Holding L+R during boot (before "High" is applied) wouldn't be enough?
22:48:24BigBambiMaybe going back
22:48:48LloreanjhMikeS: I don't really like "Hold X during boot" in general. I'm not really sure which qualifies as more minimalistic. :)
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22:49:11LloreanPersonally, if it were 100% up to me, I'd say "let them just clear all their settings, we don't make special cases for other things."
22:49:25scorche|shLlorean: more suspicious than the one carrying around that many but also has some in a hard/tough case with 2 locks on it? ;)
22:49:38jhMikeSLlorean: a special screen with logic is definitely not as minimalistic as a simple button_read_device() call :)
22:50:00BigBambiI wouldn't have a special clear
22:50:25jhMikeSLlorean: well, that's really was my position initially. I dont' think you'll make the same mistake twice anyway.
22:50:29BigBambiThere isn't one for e.g. background and text the same colour, which make it just (if not more) unusable
22:51:20LloreanjhMikeS: Well, "minimalistic" in terms of "what a user has to put up with". Holding things while booting is complicated, and can be annoying if you don't quite get it right the first time. :)
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22:51:22jhMikeSBut it is unique in that it's the very ability to navigate which is affected
22:52:17BigBambiThey will only ever do it once, and it is another button to accidentally clear settings with
22:52:52LloreanTo accidentally clear *one* setting with.
22:53:10LloreanBut yeah, I think it's okay to just expect them to learn. And maybe it'll teach them to back up their main settings too. ;)
22:53:42jhMikeSI wasn't too convinced of the utility of special handling. If anything passes a corrupt value, "Default" is used so only a correct value passed to the button driver will allow it to work anyway.
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22:54:31BigBambiLlorean: er yes, good point. However, I stand by it not being worth it :)
22:54:49jhMikeSIsn't there also touch screen calibration that you can mess up and require a reset?
22:54:59jhMikeSon TS devices of course
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22:55:58LloreanI'm not sure.
22:56:15LloreanAnd of course, the calibration screen could always ask you to verify calibration by clicking "Yes" in the next 5 seconds, before it lets you leave.
22:56:27LloreanAnd if you can click it, then your calibration is at least "good enough" to probably get back there.
22:56:33jhMikeSin any case, the patch in FS is the minimal with absolutely no special reset or coddling of any sort
22:58:19 Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!")
22:58:25jhMikeSI'm not under the impression that the device is utterly unusable anyway but just a little difficult
22:58:31fmlpetur: you prevented my oops commit! :-)
23:00:07peturnext time do a test build :p
23:00:27fmlpetur: I did. But on a wrong platform
23:01:22fmlpetur: I have three sim build dirs all of which don't have button bar. So I wouldn't notice
23:01:55jhMikeSAll feel the "System" submenu is you proper place for that? (not that I can think of where else it could go)
23:02:38BigBambiyup, seems fine
23:03:52LloreanjhMikeS: My understanding is that the people who say it's "unusable" are actually experiencing much more drastic behaviour than what I get (a few accidental triggered presses)
23:05:48jhMikeSLlorean: though somehow they manage to get to playback and other places though with a bit of difficulty
23:06:28 Quit fml ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23:06:45LloreanjhMikeS: Yeah, I'd kinda like to see one of their devices. But all said and done, your patch is probably the best option.
23:08:09jhMikeSok...I'll throw that one in the mix then
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23:09:25fmlpetur: you seem to make sweeps over FS entries. Could you commit FS #9034 (the last patch there that only rearranges entries in viewers.config)?
23:10:56peturheh... I'm doing that stuff because it is what I have time for :/
23:11:49fmlpetur: I understand you very well
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23:17:28pixelmafml: you testbuilt the HAVE_BUTTONBAR changes in sims without buttonbar? Seems a bit illogical to me ;)
23:19:45 Quit nedd1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:20:11fmlpixelma: since I don't own a dap with button bar (I even don't know what it is) I wouldn't know what I should look for. That was just search&replace patch. And the build would work even for a dap with intended button bar. But the result would be wrong. But I wouldn't notice :-)
23:20:56*petur doesn't have one either, but at least builds for the actual target
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23:22:15fmlpetur: how did you spot the error? The build must have gone through.
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23:22:58peturyou missed SOURCES, so the recorder build had link errors
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23:26:35fmlpetur: ah, that! Yes, now I see. Thank you. Good night!
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23:39:46peter__bcan i handle repeated buttons with button_get() ?
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23:40:28 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:40:48LloreanjhMikeS: There've been a couple responses to your post in the dircache activity thread. Though either they misunderstood your request or I did.
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23:44:37jhMikeSLlorean: after the one today?
23:44:48 Quit dabujo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:44:52jhMikeSI guess "request" should be clue :)
23:45:08LloreanAlso, you broke the gigabeat F sim. :)
23:45:32jhMikeSworking it out now (so I can preserve the menu item there anyway)
23:49:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:55:33*jhMikeS thumps amiconn for making /me 's red live longer :D
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