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#rockbox log for 2008-06-01

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00:05:00 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
00:10:20 Join Hilikus [0] (n=ROCKERO@
00:10:39Hilikushey guys, is there a cover art resize patch that i can use ?
00:12:39soapif there is a current one, Hilikus, it is in the tracker (Flyspray)
00:17:18*petur discovers he'll have a place to sleep at devcon :)
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00:30:58wpyhOK, I discovered that the 2 MB limitation on the tracker is for single attachments only
00:31:09wpyhWith multiple attachments I can easily exceed 2 MB
00:32:44 Quit davina ("GNU/Linux the free alternative to Windows")
00:33:09wpyhOn the wiki, I read that "we doesn't support greyscale anti-aliasing". Is this hard to implement? Or was it decided that it would take too much battery life away?
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00:51:23 Quit petur ("Zzzz")
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00:55:48midgeyBagder: I've sent a new patch that hopefully fixes your issues building
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01:09:57DrewShinergreetings. i need write permissions on the wiki
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01:12:42linuxstbDrewShiner: What do you want to edit?
01:14:30linuxstbDrewShiner: Done. Happy editing.
01:14:35DrewShinerthank you
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01:19:43stripwaxHey, it would be worth adding an "accessory adc reading" column to that page ...
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03:01:48saratoga2JdGordon: around?
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03:06:25 Quit Hilikus ("Estoy usando el Ambar-Script v1.1, yo lo cree y me quedo muy bacano, bajatelo de | There are 10 ki)
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03:12:03saratogai'm pretty sure icons.h is just used on the archos players, yet my makefile is absolutely convinced that it should error out unless its included
03:12:12saratogaand i have no idea where its getting this idea
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03:44:11JdGordon|zzzsaratoga: hey
03:44:33saratogaJdGordon|zzz: hey, finally figured out why I was getting that icons.h error
03:44:49 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (i=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
03:44:52JdGordonoh good :)
03:44:54saratogaapparently you can't build apps/gui without apps/recording
03:45:15saratogasince the makefile requires an empty .h file in the recording directory
03:45:47JdGordonhmm... ok
03:46:13saratogaalso, i got the bootloader to compile using a dummy main.c, but it doesn't seem to work
03:46:13kugelcan someone quickly help me with replay gain?
03:46:27kugelWhich tags reads rockbox? (vorbis comment)
03:46:29saratogaBagder seemed to think it would be better to just get normal builds working
03:47:06JdGordonmore hassle though
03:47:15JdGordonwhy didnt the bootloader one work?
03:47:29JdGordondid you have the sdl stuff from uisdl.c in there?
03:47:33saratogait just gives me a 300 byte file that prints a random string
03:47:36saratogayeah i rolled it all in
03:47:56saratogaactually i take back the 300 byte thing, thats a different problem
03:48:55saratogaJdGordon: see here:
03:49:23saratogaalso, any idea where LANG_DISK_NAME_MMC gets defined? i'm not seeing it with grep
03:49:53saratogaoh lang.h
03:50:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:52:57JdGordon"BagderI think a better approach is to simply ifdef out a lot of the code you want to wait with from SOURCES" <- thats the exact same as doing a "bootloader" build
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03:55:35saratogai assumed he meant to still compile the gui stuff but without a lot of the extras like codecs and such
03:55:59JdGordonwhatver.. the main thing is to get a working executable :p
03:56:18JdGordonI'm heading out for the day in 40min or so
03:58:39saratogai'm probably going to work on something else in a few anyway
04:01:34saratogaah finally got it to at least compile through apps
04:01:46saratoganow just got to worry about the 400 linker errors
04:04:27 Quit PaulJam_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:04:32JdGordonwhats the errors?
04:04:57saratogaJdGordon: lots of multiply defined functions between firmware and uisimulator
04:05:30 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
04:05:34saratogaif you're interested
04:07:10JdGordonlooks like fun
04:08:25saratogasome of these are odd, like undefined references to "cancel_cpu_boost"
04:08:32saratogai'm not sure how it wouldn't be able to find that
04:09:24JdGordonsim doesnt have boostr control
04:09:39JdGordonbut your config thinks it should...
04:10:20saratogait should still link that function right?
04:10:26saratogajust it wouldn't do anything
04:11:39JdGordonnot if its not being compiled
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04:59:31wpyhany ui developers here?
05:00:38DEBUGReceived signal 15 (SIGTERM), terminating (snapshot: fplrun.c line 385)
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05:56:28alleleplugins are able to use integer arrays, correct?
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06:01:25hobbsjust got to use rockbox for the first time, and it's pretty fantastic. :)
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07:03:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:16:03coseinIs this channel used for discussion of the rockbox utility?
07:16:12coseinIf so, I've got a bug to submit/talk about
07:17:00advcomp2019what is the bug
07:17:24coseinWhen generating .talk files it doesn't take kindly to international characters
07:20:39coseinit stops generating them
07:22:12secleinteercosein: that's coz it's .us only :P
07:27:58coseinsecleinteer: what do you mean
07:28:11secleinteercosein: i'm jk lol
07:28:17coseinif i feed the title to sapi by hand it work fine
07:28:22coseinanyways, i'm heading to bed
07:29:30secleinteerlol cy
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09:02:23mrkikoGood morning rockbox people!
09:02:55wpyhgood afternoon here
09:03:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:13:09secleinteergood middle of the night here
09:15:34mrkikoI had always been excited when chatting with people living very far from my location. (siwtching my heart to rockbox-community)
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09:28:35wpyhhey guys
09:28:44wpyhi've just got myself an ipod video 80gb
09:29:07*mrkiko thinks problems starts
09:29:08wpyhwill post results and experiences later (maybe a few days, weeks, who knows)
09:29:25wpyhsorry but I can't find the gigabeat here
09:29:50wpyhby the way I got it for 1100 RMB here, which is about US $160
09:29:56wpyhgood price or not?
09:30:53Bagderwhat is the attachment in the WebHome wiki page?
09:31:00mrkikoah... I think so, even if I'm in Italya
09:31:48Bagder... looks like a pic that was meant for another page
09:31:55wpyhBagder: link?
09:32:01secleinteerwpyh: that's a little too good
09:32:03secleinteeryou suer that isn't a fake?
09:32:08secleinteerthey sell a lot of those over there :P
09:32:20wpyhI mean that's second hand
09:32:24wpyhno, not fake
09:32:27secleinteeroh, kk
09:32:31secleinteerso it's 5.5g?
09:32:34wpyhhow much is it there?
09:32:37wpyhyes, it's a 5.5g
09:32:51secleinteeri don't know how much for used
09:32:54JdGordonwpyh: you wanted a UI developer before?
09:33:04wpyhyeah, I wanted to ask some questions
09:33:05secleinteerbut an 80gb 6g is $250
09:33:18wpyhbut the 6g is not rockboxable...
09:33:41secleinteerbut fuck that, i ordered a creative zen with 32gb ssd this morning from newegg ;/
09:33:45wpyhI wanted to ask why "we don't support greyscale antialiasing"?
09:33:49secleinteerno rockbox yet, but hopefully it will be working
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09:34:05JdGordonwpyh: because we dont do any AA at all...
09:34:08wpyhsecleinteer: when that time comes, I'd probably buy the 6g too
09:34:27secleinteerwpyh: there's hardware encryption or something, so it might not ever happen
09:34:41wpyhJdGordon: I mean, why can't we rasterize a TTF font (for example) then load it onto rockbox?
09:34:45secleinteercreative zen is just new, so that's a different
09:34:52secleinteerthere's no compiler for the proc right now
09:35:08Lloreanwpyh: That's not doing antialiasing. That requires translucency though. Currently fonts are 1bpp
09:35:10secleinteerjust a $12k sdk for anyone who wants to make a device out of it :P
09:35:19wpyhCreative Zen... hm...
09:35:33wpyhoh no, $12K ...
09:35:47secleinteernot much for creative to pay though
09:35:50wpyhLlorean: OK... why not make a new font format?
09:35:59wpyhlike 4bpp I think would be good enough
09:36:07Lloreanwpyh: Feel free, if it's fast enough and doesn't have a real performance cost.
09:36:12wpyhthen we implement the translucency
09:37:10wpyhLlorean: OK, I'm just a noob here and right now the best I can do is translate things and submit new fonts. But by saying that do you mean, if someone somehow manages to implement that, then there's a chance it will be accepted?
09:37:15wpyhsorry for the mouthful...
09:37:32LloreanIf someone implements it well enough, and there aren't big disadvantages to it, it might be accepted.
09:37:39wpyhOK, thanks
09:37:48LloreanRight now, though, most feel antialiased fonts don't really add much, so it has to have very, very, very little cost.
09:38:11wpyhOK, I'll have to understand the font rendering code first :)
09:39:25wpyhNext question: any ideas how to make a fully themable interface?
09:39:43wpyhI realize I'm a bit crazy here, but I wanted to reimplement the OF's UI
09:39:50wpyhlike for example the iPod's UI
09:39:51JdGordonits about as themeable as its ever going to be
09:40:02wpyhHow about an app?
09:40:15wpyhI see that an app can capture just about any button combination :)
09:40:18JdGordonwhat from the OF would you actually want?
09:40:25LloreanJdGordon: not entirely true. It's likely to have a customizable status bar and movable menu viewport.
09:40:29wpyhJdGordon: the UI :)
09:40:39JdGordonLlorean: thats why I said "about"...
09:40:46JdGordonwpyh: which part of it...
09:41:22wpyhJdGordon: Um, the whole UI, so it's like to the casual user, he / she is using the OF until he / she goes into the about screen and see ROCKBOX there :D
09:41:46LloreanDo you think they're going to forget they've installed it?
09:41:51JdGordonfor the people that that would fool, you can fake that already
09:41:51linuxstbwpyh: Which original firmware? Rockbox runs on many different devices...
09:42:04LloreanRockbox has far too many controls to duplicate the input methods of the iPod user interface. Too many functions.
09:42:09wpyhNo, I'm just trying to make the user "feel" that
09:42:28wpyhlinuxstb: for the devices that I have, namely the iPod, and the Meizu
09:42:31hobbswpyh: and how do you expect to cope with the fact that the menu options (and the features underlying the menus) are completely different? :)
09:42:40LloreanIf you, as a user, want to duplicate the iPod UI, you'd be better served hacking Rockbox to do it, than trying to do it with a mere theme.
09:43:05JdGordon1 thing I'd like to rip from the apple of is the time/alarm screen
09:43:19wpyhhobbs: well, that's unavoidable, so there'lll be more options (for example the ipod doesn't allow you to touch a lot of sound settings, but RB allows)
09:43:36wpyhLlorean: you mean, hack the interface code directly?
09:44:17LloreanWell, a UI is much more than just "how it looks". You'd need to change a lot of the controls, you'd have to implement a lot of changes to the while playing screen, etc, etc.
09:44:22hobbswpyh: there's that, but there's also the fact that the organization is completely different. And the way the UI is written you can't do anything about that issue without touching lots and lots of code.
09:44:31LloreanReorganize the menu structure, change the entries in the main menu, so on and so forht.
09:46:09wpyhI didn't find the "time/alarm screen"
09:46:52wpyhYes, I realize that the UI structure is also very much different, so I think either a full theme engine is needed, or maybe an app
09:47:48wpyhIf a full theme engine is used, then there will be a "default" theme
09:47:58wpyhand there will be selectable "themes"
09:48:06JdGordonnot gonna happen
09:48:20wpyhnot like the themes we now have (right now they are only changing the colours and fonts)
09:48:31wpyhJdGordon: yeah, I guessed that :P
09:48:34LloreanAnd the entire layout of the while playing screen.
09:48:47wpyhyes, the WPS too...
09:49:00wpyhAny ideas how to implement it?
09:49:02LloreanSo basically, what you want is "the option to reorganize the main menu, and change which buttons do what"
09:49:17LloreanWhich are on the top ten list of features the developers don't really want at all
09:49:37wpyhLlorean: Um... yes. And why the don't the devs want it?
09:50:02LloreanDoes it really matter?
09:50:22LloreanPrimarily code complexity and support. It makes the code both harder to maintain, and the software harder to provide consistent support for.
09:50:26wpyhLlorean: no, it doesn't actually
09:51:04wpyhwell, how about an app? like a game, where the game takes control of everything,
09:51:18wpyhthen an app could be for example "ui_meizu" which simulates the meizu ui
09:51:29LloreanAs well dynamic menus would require a bit more overhead than static ones, which exacerbates already known performance concerns.
09:51:30wpyhI realize that that's a lot of work, though
09:52:10LloreanYou could surely write your own plugin that controls playback and offers a menu system more familiar to you. Again, feel free, nobody's stopping you from modifying it for your own purposes.
09:52:12wpyhOK... I get your point there
09:52:37LloreanAnd, in a general sense, as long as it's a plugin and doesn't require changes to the core, it's more possible to get it included.
09:52:59LloreanOf course, you couldn't use the same font or images as the Apple UI if you wanted it included.
09:52:59wpyhWell, that's good
09:53:08wpyhyeah, I must find my own fonts
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09:55:35wpyhI'm considering the WenQuanYi fonts
09:57:26hobbsI was actually thinking about fonts myself today. I definitely want to find and convert a heavier sans-serif.
09:57:47hobbsI like a bigger font, my player has a nice high-res screen, and the stock fonts are all pretty light at the larger sizes.
09:58:43JdGordondoes anyone think there would be an uproar over removing the %P tag and modifying the %pb tag to add a filename to the end? (to enable multiple progress bars with viewports)
09:59:28LloreanJdGordon: Multiple bars with different images? I think it'd be fine, though it'd break all existing viewports. Any way to make it backward compatible?
09:59:33LloreanEr, all existing WPSes
10:00:42JdGordonwell, not really... the problem is curently only a sigle pb is possible, with conditional viewports we would need to setup multiple bars (max one per vp of course)... keeping the %P tag wont be possible without breaking compat anyway
10:01:40LloreanYou couldn't say, default to %P's filename if one isn't specified in %pb?
10:01:57LloreanLike, just store it in a buffer somewhere when you get to %P, and if %pb doesn't include it during the load, patch in the one from %P?
10:02:10LloreanJust then require %P be before all %pbs during parse.
10:02:21JdGordonhmm.. yeah, that would work
10:03:01LloreanThen most existing ones *probably* wouldn't break, I think?
10:03:21JdGordonnone would break if we did that
10:03:26JdGordonthey are only use one pb
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10:13:36wpyhJdGordon: you still here?
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10:14:08JdGordonthe bye was to webguest44 :p
10:16:15wpyhoh :p
10:16:29wpyhSo, next question: why are we still using GB2312 for the Chinese encoding?
10:17:16wpyhcan we update it to GBK or GB18030 instead? Not that I understand those two encodings well...
10:18:16LloreanAs I've pointed out, many things simply require someone who's interested in them to go and do it.
10:18:55wpyhOK then :)
10:20:03wpyhNext question: I posted two fonts (WenQuanYi Unibit and WenQuanYi Bitmap Song) on the tracker. It's my first time posting, so... did I do it correctly?
10:20:10wpyhsorry for the tedious questions :)
10:20:39JdGordonyou did... but same applies.. need to find someone interested to commit then :(
10:20:56JdGordonmarkun is usually helpful with lang/font stuff iirc
10:21:37wpyhoh, ok I know him
10:21:48wpyhthanks :)
10:21:55*JdGordon spots a bug in wps_common.c
10:22:05wpyhNext question: any ideas what's the problem with battery life on the ipod nano?
10:22:16Lloreanwpyh: What problem?
10:22:16JdGordonint h = font_get(display->getfont())->height; <- should be checking the current viewport.. not display!
10:22:34LloreanBattery life on the Nano should only be slightly less than in the original firmware if you turn off accessory power.
10:22:38wpyhI only get 7:30 runtime (the OF gets 12:30 hours), which seems in line with the results on the wiki
10:22:59LloreanAre you using a current, official build, and did you actually perform benchmark tests using the same files to get both of these times?
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10:23:33wpyhI'm using the same files
10:23:42wpyhand I'm using the SVN build
10:23:58wpyhBut I just found out that I have the "Accessory Power Supply" to "Yes"
10:24:04wpyhIs that what's causing the difference?
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10:24:30LloreanDid you perform actual measurements of the time, running until dead, too?
10:24:38LloreanThe "time remaining" estimate is quite inaccurate.
10:24:58LloreanAlso, features like the equalizer and other sound altering features, or complex WPSes, can reduce battery life as well.
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10:25:09wpyhYes, and actually I didn't use the battery benchmark. I just left it on and waited until it died
10:25:41LloreanUsing a limited playlist of the exact same files, rather than just a random selection of all files on your player?
10:26:11LloreanDifferences in format and bitrate can have significant impacts on battery life as well.
10:26:13wpyhNo, I'm setting it on random...
10:26:27wpyhWell, in that case I'll do the test again
10:26:37LloreanTry making the conditions as similar as possible
10:26:43JdGordonLlorean: hmm.. I tihnk it will be better to remove the %P tag instead of keeping backwards compat.... 1) its not a major change to move the filename, 2) the code to handle %P will cause some problems if we do try to keep it
10:27:06wpyhI'll try it again and post the results
10:27:18Lloreanwpyh: Reset the settings in Rockbox to default, then turn off accessory power. Then use a limited (45-60 minute is generally good) playlist, preferable not on shuffle just repeating
10:27:41wpyhhobbs: what player do you have (talking about the high res screen)?
10:27:53LloreanJdGordon: Alright. Though I'm not looking forward to a whole new round of "every WPS in the wiki doesn't work!"
10:28:05wpyhLlorean: OK. Why such a long playlist?
10:28:27LloreanMake sure it fills the buffer.
10:28:31LloreanNot as important on the Nano though.
10:29:03JdGordonLlorean: yeah, I agree... a script to fix them for this change shouldnt be hard to do though
10:29:11JdGordondinner time
10:29:40LloreanJdGordon: Maybe you can leave it on the tracker for testing and try to time it with the theme site. Pester them to finish it. :)
10:33:08wpyhI've registered at the wiki but I can't edit my own page. Can I get write permission please? :)
10:34:49wpyhIt's at:
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10:39:45bluebrotherBagder: around?
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10:53:52n1swpyh: promise not to spam?
10:54:08wpyhOK, I won't spam
10:54:14wpyhI don't usually spam anyway
10:54:42wpyhI mean I "don't" spam
10:54:53wpyhmake it "I *don't* spam"
10:54:58wpyhjust that I like to talk a lot
10:55:04n1sok, should work now
10:55:43Buschelwpyh: another thing to make sure when doing battery benchs -> do a restart of rockbox before starting the bench. e.g. do not charge battery within rockbox and simply disconnect the USB-adapter. best would be to charge in emergency disk mode and then do a clean restart.
10:55:52wpyhOK, thanks :)
10:56:13wpyhBuschel: Actually I did the last measurement by disconnecting the cable after it's full
10:56:20Buschelwpyh: reason is that there is a higher power consumption that we do not understand right now.
10:56:23wpyhBuschel: what's the reason?
10:57:17wpyhIs there a way to check the current power draw? Like in my laptop we can check the current ampere
10:58:00JdGordonLlorean: yeah, ill give plenty of warning... I tinhk this, cond viewports and removing margins will all go in at the same time, should cause the least amount of problems
10:59:12Buschelwpyh: measuring the power consumption is quite difficult. you'll need to take off the battery, connect the player via USB and have a special cable to measure the current then.
10:59:30Buschelwpyh: or you do estimations via runtime measurements.
11:00:00*JdGordon has dual pb's working :)
11:01:21Buschelwpyh: btw, when you do multiple battery benchs for coparison -> always use the same files, settings and volume
11:03:18BuschelSeed: you there?
11:03:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:08:55wpyhBuschel: sorry, I was editing the wiki and didn't see this window
11:09:49wpyhIs there no way to ping the power chip and ask it "How much current are you using now?"
11:12:11wpyhI'd take a wild guess about the higher power consumption: when we charge the battery, the power chip goes into an "on AC" mode, which uses more current, then when we stop charging, we didn't tell the chip to go back to "battery mode".
11:12:20wpyhThat, by the way, is a shot in the dark.
11:14:02Buschelwpyh: no, we cannot read something like this out of the pcf. the higher consumption seems to be connected to the internal USB-controller
11:14:53wpyhBuschel: the internal USB controller, in that we didn't ask it to go to a low power mode or shut it off?
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11:18:47Buschelwpyh: if it would be that easy we would have solved it :o)
11:19:39*Buschel should add the clean-restart-information to the battery bench wiki
11:21:41Buschelwpyh: btw, what format and bitrate do you use?
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11:22:40wpyhBuschel: welll :p
11:22:59wpyhFor the format, I'm currently using MP3, with bitrates from 128kbps to 320kbps
11:26:28k4yi'm interested, realistically, what is the chance of a Zune (2G) port? has there been any real interest there?
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11:29:46wpyhLlorean: I remember seeing a forum thread about it
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11:30:25JdGordonprobably plenty of interest.. but not from anyone who can do anything about it
11:31:00wpyhYeah, it's here:
11:32:58Lloreanwpyh: He/she asked if there has been any real interest for the second gen Zune. First, that thread is about the original. Second, even considering that, there hasn't been any real concentrated effort that's had any results.
11:33:20wpyhOh, OK...
11:34:27JdGordonLlorean: I should copy that ml email to the forums and sticky it yeah?
11:34:48LloreanJdGordon: You should send it out to the user mailing list too, and then sticky it in the WPS forum, yeah.
11:35:05JdGordonsent to both ml's
11:35:17JdGordonI figure this should give plenty of warning
11:35:26LloreanOh, I only got the -dev one so far, maybe just mail lag.
11:36:01LloreanI see it on the archive page though, so all is well
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11:38:50JdGordonscorche: linuxstb_: hows the theme site coming?
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11:42:25LloreanJdGordon: If we're changing the progress bar anyway, one HUGE suggestion. Can we have it be x|y|width|height now, rather than this strange (and hard to remember) height|leftpos|rightpos|toppos (height|x1|x2|y I suppose)
11:43:03LloreanI imagine it only never got changed because it was preserving backward compatibility, specifically with WPSes that didn't have all the parts of the %pb tag anyway
11:43:33JdGordonhaha sure... I didnt even know that was the syntax and assumed it was x,y,width,height :p
11:43:59LloreanNah, the syntax evolved over time as each new feature was added to it.
11:44:06JdGordonfilename at the start so we can still have everything optional?
11:44:12JdGordonor force all params?
11:44:34JdGordonalthough, I guess it could be optional even with the filename at the end
11:44:37LloreanThat's up to you. I don't mind forcing all params.
11:45:10LloreanIf you force them, it at least makes people think about what they're doing, and it's not exactly painful to have to type four numbers in.
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11:45:35LloreanThough, maybe let height=0 use the current font's height (if possible)?
11:45:37JdGordonalso, is that the only tag with optional params?
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11:46:25bluebrotherhow about making empty values using sane defaults? Like width being the complete screen?
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11:46:37LloreanThat makes more sense than 0, I guess
11:47:06LloreanSo filename|x|y||> would give "full width" and "font height"
11:47:36LloreanJdGordon: I *think* it's the only tag with optional bits. The only other cases of optional on the page describe enumerations and conditionals.
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11:48:55JdGordonempties are a bit harder to code, but doable
11:49:45JdGordon:) Dont even need to fix my warning email, modified tags already has it as x|y|width|h|f
11:49:57bluebrotherwell, another idea would be to allow percentage values to make themes somewhat portable. But I guess that isn't worth the code ;-)
11:50:16LloreanPercentage values wouldn't be any good without viewports also having percentage values
11:50:19k4ypity though
11:50:25k4y(about the Zune)
11:50:41*JdGordon going to kill some time playing audiosurf.. bbl
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11:51:01Lloreank4y: Ports happen when the owners of the hardware work on it, primarily. The best thing would be to find strong centers of the Zune community, and see if there are members there with the knowledge or desire to put in the hard hours to get it done.
11:51:47k4yLlorean: unfortunately i get the feeling that the strong centres of the Zune community want nothing to do with Rockbox
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11:53:39k4yout of interest, not that i have that kind of money at the moment, would donating player hardware to Rockbox expediate any kind of port for that player?
11:53:52LloreanThe primary need isn't hardware, or money. It's time.
11:54:06k4yyeah, i figured that was probably the limiting factor
11:54:33k4yunfortunately i don't have the hardware knowledge required to provide some kind of value
11:54:45LloreanPorting to a device takes large amounts of time doing tasks that are often quite challenging. For someone to embark on a new port almost necessarily requires a very strong pre-existing interest in the player.
11:55:02k4yLlorean: right, hence my previous question about interest
11:55:06LloreanKnowledge is something that one can learn, given the aforementioned time.
11:55:18LloreanMany people who've done ports have had this be their first experience in that sort of area anyway.
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11:57:12LloreanAt the very least you could spend some time trying to identify the specific processor and other chips within the 2nd Gen Zune (if it hasn't been done so already) on the off chance that any effort for it might benefit from work being done elsewhere on similar hardware.
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11:58:27k4yi read somewhere that the Toshiba Gigabeat S and the Zune have hardware in common (the Zune was manufactured by Toshiba)
11:58:51k4yalthough i'm not sure if that was talking about the second gen Zune or not, i'm also not sure how reliable that information is
12:00:14BigBambifirst gen I believe
12:00:32BigBambiBut the S has broken encryption so we can run code on it, the Zune does not
12:04:02k4yyes, i'd imagine that circumventing the Zune's security is probably a fairly tough job (and assumes you know what you're doing)
12:07:41*mrkiko thinks the world is very bad, cruel...
12:07:53n1safaik the 2g zune uses a chip labeled "imx32" which implies it's similar to the imx31 in the beast and zune g1
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12:25:01JdGordonhow are the daily emails for the mailing lists supposed to work? I thought it was one a day? I've got 2 already today
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12:53:21bluebrotherortanc: what do you want to tell us?
12:54:32Laser87bluebrother: He already did this in #archlinux - we found out, that he is a fool :-)
12:54:39Laser87Hello everybody
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12:55:26wpyhthat explains
12:55:40wpyhso does he say "archlinux, archlinux" on and on on #archlinux?
12:55:50BigBambiwpyh: don't add to it :)
12:55:55BigBambilet's stay on topic
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12:56:35wpyhBigBambi: is there any topic? :-\
12:56:44BigBambiwpyh: yes, see the topic
12:57:00BigBambiThis is a support and development channel for Rockbox, nothing else
12:57:57wpyhwell, when I came here I saw "(13:18:17) The topic for #rockbox is: Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | - Updated - see Dev ML and edit the individual pages! | Rah rah rah! Summer of Code!"
12:58:21BigBambiwpyh: right, so the first link that says please read before speaking might help
12:59:14JdGordonBagder: you round?
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13:32:48PaulJamJdGordon: hi, with the latest conditional viewports patch i get errors during compiling:
13:33:19JdGordonarg.. ok
13:33:34JdGordonhmm.. looks like i patched the wrong file :/
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13:36:17JdGordonLlorean: thanks, thats what I was going to say, but shorter :)
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13:40:35JdGordonbtw, I'm going to use - for it to automatically use sane values instead of a blank because imo its easier to read
13:46:21LloreanI personally don't care, but I think some WPS tags already use nothing. I'm not sure.
13:46:38JdGordondoes anyone know if parse_list() \0 terminates string items?
13:50:50JdGordonoh, they do? hmm...
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14:02:41kugelWhich replay gain tags reads rockbox (vorbis comment in my case)?
14:03:39kugelMediaMonkey writes REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN and REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_PEAK, where the latter has the higher value
14:04:27oboit reads both - isn't there a setting to switch between them?
14:04:43LloreanPEAK is used for prevent clipping, I believe
14:04:50obowell, also album_gain and album_peak
14:05:02kugelobo: Possibly, I only use track gain
14:05:35kugelLlorean: I've made a quick test wps with %rg, and rockbox seems to apply REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN
14:05:46LloreanBecause that's what you're *supposed* to apply.
14:05:55LloreanI don't understand the question.
14:06:47kugelMediaMonkey writes REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN (which has a value e.g. of 0.07) and REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_PEAK (which has a value of 0.524567).
14:07:02kugelI hardly notice any gain in rockbox
14:07:24LloreanPossibly because your song is quite close to the target gain.
14:07:44kugelMediaMonkey shows +6.1 in the library
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14:08:10d34df00dHi there!
14:08:16kugelmy target value is 95dB
14:08:37kugelAnd I can surely say, the files aren't any louder on my e200
14:08:38d34df00dAll recent builds of rockbox for Ipod video 80 gb misbehave on one song.
14:08:49d34df00dThe just stop playing and sometimes hang, sometimes not.
14:08:53d34df00dI can give link to the song.
14:09:11Lloreankugel: 0.07 db is not a lot of added gain, which is I believe the amount that tag adds.
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14:10:14LloreanI don't understand what you're asking, kugel. Rockbox adds the amount in the tag, like it's supposed to. If you're disagreeing with Mediamonkey about how much should be added, that's not really something for here.
14:10:19kugelLlorean: So, does mediamonkey write wrong tags?
14:10:24LloreanHow should I know?
14:10:46LloreanI don't know how much gain is supposed to be added to your file.
14:10:57kugelI set target value to 95dB, but it doesn't appear to be applied in rockbox
14:10:57Lloreand34df00d: You should probably file a proper bug report
14:11:07Lloreankugel: How do you know it's not applied?
14:11:10kugelLlorean: As I said, +6.1
14:11:18LloreanYou yourself said the *tag* tells Rockbox to add a very tiny value.
14:11:19d34df00dLlorean: uh, thanks.
14:11:31BigBambiWell it sounds like the tag isn't being written correctly then, which isn't a RB issue
14:11:54Lloreankugel: "+6.1" doesn't mean anything. You've just said it shows that in the library. As a value for what?
14:12:03LloreanIt's certainly not the value in the tag.
14:12:26LloreanBut you've raised from 89 to 95. That's +6. Add 0.07 and that rounds to +6.1
14:12:47LloreanIf your file was close already, the tag might be at 0.07, but the file is at +6.1 from the normal replaygain average of 89
14:13:05kugelLlorean: It's the value for "Track volume"
14:13:35LloreanGo ask mediamonkey guys about it then.
14:13:38BigBambiEither way, surely your issue is with Media Monkey and why the tag says 0.07?
14:13:46kugelLlorean: The file is certainly not close. It's way more quite than my other songs
14:13:55LloreanClearly "Track Volume" is a different value than "REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN" and they would know whether it's supposed to be different or the same.
14:13:57LloreanTalk to them.
14:14:37kugelSo, REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN should have the value 6.1 in this case?
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14:14:47JdGordonlinuxstb: you round?
14:14:47LloreanAgain, I can't know that.
14:14:57LloreanI don't know how loud the song actually is, and the results of a proper replaygaining of it.
14:15:03LloreanI don't know that "6.1" is right, at all, in any way.
14:15:05BigBambiIf that is the gain you want, yes
14:15:08LloreanOr if it even actually relates to it.
14:15:17LloreanYou need to talk to the mediamonkey people about it.
14:16:04kugelBigBambi: I assume that. I guess media monkey does +6.1 since my target volume is more or less 6 above the 89 default
14:16:11kugelLlorean: Thanks, I'm going to do that
14:16:30PaulJambtw, i would suggest to use the default target volume (89dB) for replaygain. i think many songs will still clip with ah value of 95dB or be played back at a lower volume when "prevent clipping" is enabled. (sorry for OT)
14:16:40BigBambikugel: I'd imagine, but either way, Rockbox can only apply what is in the tag. The question of what is actually in the tag is down to whatever wrote that tag
14:16:54LloreanPaulJam: Out of curiosity, if you knew it was OT why did you say it at all rather than PM him?
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14:17:28PaulJamLlorean: i didn't think of that :)
14:17:30kugelSo, I need to find out why media monkey only writes 0.07
14:18:03*Llorean sighs.
14:18:38Lloreankugel: You need to stop talking about it in here until whatever problem you're having is actually on the Rockbox side.
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14:19:29kugelLlorean: I allready did...I just wanted to make sure the problem is not on the rockbox side (I assumed that allready).
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14:20:15Nathanany one awake right now?
14:20:28BigBambiIt is mid afternoon, so yep :)
14:20:32LloreanNathan: If you have a specific question, please simply ask it.
14:21:09NathanAnyone awake?
14:21:41*gevaerts sees that Nathan is not
14:21:46 Quit Nathan (Client Quit)
14:21:47BigBambiNathan: As, I said, lots of people - it is mid-afternoon in Europe. However, please just ask any question you have
14:21:52BigBambitoo late
14:22:16gevaertsHe did ask a question :)
14:23:22mrkikoHe was having some connection problems
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14:25:27Nathan_GreeneAny one active?
14:25:28BigBambiyes, just ask
14:26:08Nathan_GreeneI was wondering where so I submit my WPS?
14:26:24Nathan_GreeneI just Finished my first one.
14:26:36BigBambithe WPSGallery page on the wiki would be good (assuming that it doesn't infringe any copyrights etc.)
14:27:31Nathan_GreeneThe WPS confines the the Soap Rules and contains all my own art
14:27:40BigBambiIn that case, cool
14:28:38Nathan_GreeneI just need to zip it and I shall have it uploaded in a bit.
14:28:50Nathan_GreeneDoing one more test run
14:29:46Nathan_GreeneMade it for Half Life 2 Fans :)
14:30:33Nathan_GreeneAh I need write perms as well. Admins please take care of that if you will?
14:30:43BigBambiwhat is your wiki name?
14:31:23Nathan_GreeneNateGreene would be my wiki name.
14:31:28BigBambiclose enough
14:31:32BigBambiPromise not to spam?
14:31:37Nathan_GreeneI really need to stop talking like that.
14:32:12Nathan_GreeneNo need to worry about spam and flaming as such.
14:32:22BigBambias such? I would hope at all
14:32:23Nathan_GreeneCrap I did it again.
14:33:05BigBambiWhat do you mean by as such?
14:33:16Nathan_GreeneThat was a typo. I meant to type "and".
14:33:27BigBambiOK then :)
14:34:08Nathan_GreeneAhhh.... thanks
14:35:04Nathan_GreeneThe perms are set and I can now edit.
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14:40:07mrkikoNathan_Greene: can you read this entence?
14:40:39BigBambimrkiko: what are you up to?
14:41:34Nathan_GreeneYes I can
14:41:55Nathan_GreeneYes mrkiko I can read you text
14:42:20BigBambimrkiko: He can clearly see what others type as we have just had a conversation, and you can check the logs to see if you missed anything. Please do not clog the logs with off topicness
14:42:36mrkikoNathan_Greene: ok ok
14:42:58mrkikoNathan_Greene: I wanted to assure you where able to catch our response; you ignored them first.
14:43:08mrkikoand I was thinking about a connection problem
14:43:17BigBambimrkiko: Please, don't - I clearly just had a conversation with him
14:43:22BigBambiCheck the logs first
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14:44:34Nathan_Greenemrkiko: I did not reply as I was not at my system.
14:44:41BigBambiEveryone, stop now
14:44:52BigBambiThis is off topic, irrelevant and pointless
14:44:54*gevaerts stops
14:45:00BigBambigevaerts: except you :)
14:45:36LloreanReminds me. Has there been any progress at all on the remaining annoyances re USB, or are we waiting for something, or merely hoping for divine inspiration?
14:45:59BigBambiLlorean: Are we waiting for someone to investigate the FAT driver on Sansa?
14:46:01*JdGordon thinks the progressbars shouldnt be a special case, and should be forced to specify the full line
14:46:20*Llorean doesn't like special cases.
14:46:28gevaertsLlorean: the latter. I don't know where to look for clues currently
14:46:34LloreanAh, okay
14:46:50Nathan_GreeneQuestion for anyone working on the Rock Box project. Can and or will .gif animations be supported for Rock Box?l
14:47:02gevaertsAnd as BigBambi said, the sansa sd driver
14:47:04JdGordonprobably not
14:47:10BigBambiNathan_Greene: If someone writes a plugin or something for it, could be
14:47:22LloreanNathan_Greene: Can: Yes. Will: Probably not, though someone could always post a patch and try to argue the case.
14:47:26BigBambiNathan_Greene: but I wouldn't hold your breath for a core dev to do so
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14:49:12PaulJamNathan_Greene: if you want that for WPS developement, then animations are already possible with alternating sublines.
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15:07:59mcuelenaereJdGordon: where do progress bars get their current progress value from?
15:08:54JdGordonthe wps...
15:09:07JdGordonI tihnk the codec sets a value in the codec interface which the wps reads
15:09:50mcuelenaereJdGordon: ah thanks, I interpreted the more-than-1-progressbar thing wrong
15:10:16mcuelenaereI thought it could get some custom progress value based on something else then music progress
15:11:55mcuelenaereok good, I was just a bit worried about touchscreen support
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15:39:08kugelLlorean: Didn't like the colored CodecPerformaceComparison table? I found it very helpful
15:39:52Lloreankugel: I discussed in in IRC in the logs shortly before I changed it.
15:40:01LloreanThe numbers you picked were inconsistent and meaningless.
15:40:26LloreanThey neither coincided with expected performance nor had a consistent interval. They seemed just plucked out of air, and didn't even have even spacing.
15:41:20LloreanIf you're going to use red->green shades to reflect performance, do it based around some form of testing (red = skips, yellow = realtime but no DSP, green = realtime + full DSP, blue = fast enough to play gameboy games with, or something)
15:41:22kugelLlorean: the uneven spacing was there before me
15:41:33LloreanNo, I meant the intervals of the colors for spacing
15:42:01LloreanRange of 100 for the first couple, then ranges of 150 for some reason.
15:43:24mcuelenaereJdGordon: in the gui list using a touchscreen: was/is there a reason you're mapping BUTTON_REPEAT on the statusbar to ACTION_STD_CONTEXT?
15:43:46JdGordonno, it was pretty arbitrary
15:44:40Nathan_GreeneI am confused about the topics. But it seems interesting no doubt.
15:44:52mcuelenaereJdGordon: so you're ok with it if I remove it?
15:45:10kugelLlorean: Ah, well, I didn't have the intention to make it even. I didn't make it to be scientifically exact, but rather as a general visual help. Also, the amount of available colors is rather low, I had gladly used an evener spacing, but there are not enough colors
15:45:28kugelAnyway, I don't see why uneven spacing is bad
15:45:43Lloreankugel: Uhm... you can divide up any set of numbers evenly.
15:46:02LloreanAt least, close to evenly, if the set is large enough
15:46:03JdGordonmcuelenaere: AH, yeah, that was before the buttons were faked (the grid), yeah you can remove it
15:46:05LloreanAnd that set was quite large.
15:46:41Lloreankugel: Because the colour choices you made suggest that "red is bad" and when "red is bad" that usually means "yellow is the minimum" or possibly even "don't try until green"
15:46:48LloreanLike "stop" "slow" and "go"
15:47:27LloreanThe information was misleading. If they were evenly spaced, you could at least say "no, I just divided the available numbers up among the available colours." Instead you picked and chose, but used colours which seem to have meaning. But they didn't.
15:47:35gevaertsSo if you want to have a 'general visual help', try to make it one that actually means something
15:48:06LloreanThere's really only three categories that need highlighted, "too slow to play", "too slow to play with EQ+Crossfeed+Replaygain" and "Fast enough for anything"
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15:48:37LloreanAnd that's going to be slightly different from player to player even within the same processor speed because, for example, the iPod Nano performs generally better than the 5G, etc.
15:48:53gevaertsAlso be careful with red/green colours
15:48:55LloreanBut as it is, the colours also weren't very readable for the clorblind.
15:49:03LloreanAs gevaerts was saying, I suppose. :)
15:49:09*Llorean manages to miss too many keys.
15:49:31*gevaerts thought that Llorean lived in color-land, not in colour-land :)
15:49:41LloreanIt might be best just to bold ones that are either "fast enough" or "not fast enough" and leave the rest normal
15:50:34mcuelenaereJdGordon: I found a better solution: only mapping it on BUTTON_REPEAT|BUTTON_REL
15:51:16kugelLlorean: ok, but you'd agree to colored table generally?
15:52:04Lloreankugel: I think many of the colours you chose were problematic. Red/green is no good for the colourblind. Yellow can be hard to read, the purple didn't contrast well with the background on some screens.
15:52:32LloreanI'd rather you just perhaps bolded all the ones less than 120%. People who need to know the exact numbers can actually read. People just looking for a general performance line can look for that.
15:52:39kugelLlorean: I guess color TV is also a bit challenging for colorblinds, it's still more populare than greyscale tv
15:52:59gevaertsWhich means ?
15:54:01Lloreankugel: You're introducing an actual *difficulty* for a group of users just to present almost entirely unimportant information?
15:54:13kugelI think it would be helpful if they were more available colors, maybe even #acacac style
15:54:37LloreanPeople can read. There are numbers. How exactly is an array of colours helpful?
15:55:27LloreanAs I've said a few times, the numbers only really boil down to three categories, which hardly needs a lot of colours, and can probably be represented fine without any at all.
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15:56:41kugelLlorean: "Llorean: So we could have red, orange (can't use full DSP) and green." -your suggestion sounds good to me, but still difficult for colorblinds
15:57:01LloreanMine was an example of meaningful colours, not a suggestion for what should be done.
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15:57:47LloreanWhy are colours _necessary_?
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15:58:10LloreanWhat extra information can they convey that cannot be conveyed by italicizing one group, bolding another, and leaving the third plain?
15:58:34kugelthey are not necessary, but very helpful. For me, this table looks like a mess
15:58:41kugelThat could work too
15:58:47LloreanI've only said it three times now.
15:59:40LloreanBut the most important thing is that the designations should be meaningful rather than numbers pulled out of air.
15:59:58kugelyea, but I can't do it.
16:00:05LloreanYou can do it on at least one target.
16:00:40LloreanIn fact, the page probably needs a table of targets, with a column for "minimum approximate realtime %" and "minimum approximate DSPed %" in it anyway
16:00:45kugelWhat's meant with "playback works, but no dsp"
16:00:51LloreanYou could start it, then once it's full, we can argue about what way to designate the colours.
16:01:02LloreanDSP is features like Equalizer and Replaygain.
16:01:10LloreanBasically, any digital alteration of the sound
16:01:22kugelalso crossfeed?
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16:01:25gevaertskugel: if you want colours, try looking at the page through something like, or ask for people to test it
16:01:37Lloreankugel: Yes. ANY digital alteration.
16:01:50kugelI've noticed, that my m4a files are fine with crossfeed, but when I also enable eq I experience skipping
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16:02:12LloreanBecause different DSP features require different amounts of CPU time.
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16:02:32LloreanAs I said, the three levels should be "doesn't play realtime" "plays realtime with no DSP" and "Plays realtime with all DSP features enabled"
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16:04:11kugelHmm, I'll see. So, when I get e.g. 250% realtime needed for all dsp features, will that number be roughly the same for all targets?
16:04:27LloreanAs I've also said earlier, it'll be different from target to target.
16:04:54kugeleven different within the same architecture?
16:05:00LloreanI explicitly said that.
16:05:09LloreanI even cited examples
16:05:31LloreanSeriously, should I even be bothering trying to talk to you if you're making it so clear you're not reading?
16:06:44LloreanIf you're busy, we should talk about this later.
16:08:03kugelThis might happens since when while I answer the first post (thus looking on the text board and sometimes the keyboard), you make the second post which I miss
16:08:12kugeltext box*
16:08:43LloreanYou can still read all of them.
16:08:57kugelYea, but sometimes I don't even notice you add a post
16:09:13kugelMy fault I guess
16:09:45kugelBut please don't think I miss those intentionally
16:09:55LloreanIt makes having a conversation with you about things nearly impossible. It's incredibly frustrating to have to say something three times before you acknowledge it, or to be asked questions I've already very carefully tried to answer.
16:10:26kugelYea, I can imagine
16:11:05kugelLlorean: btw, I've read that bold earlier, but didn't came to answer to it
16:11:14LloreanBut, to simplify everything: It needs testing on nearly all players before there will be meaningful numbers. And until there are meaningful numbers, there's not much point in visually coding it either with colours or bold/italics, since they would merely mislead those who don't know better.
16:12:23kugelI think you are right
16:13:25kugelI just didn't intend to give the colors a special meaning like "playback, but now dps". I rather wanted to to say that e.g. green performs better than yellow
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16:13:41kugelBut it's probably better to actually have a meaning
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16:20:15Nathan_GreeneI have finished my new theme :)
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16:59:30fmlHello. In the last commit to list.c I see: unsigned int prev_line; and then later prev_line = -1; Is it OK?
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17:06:11saratogaits casted to signed before comparing it, so i think it should work, seems a bit odd though
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17:11:17fmlsaratoga: as of now it would assign the max int value. But it's a bit of hack IMHO. Why not write it explicitly?
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17:18:37Keithumm is this where i can asked for help about regarding ipodpatcher
17:19:04Keithhello anyone here
17:22:44PaulJamjust ask
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17:25:07DuoMaxwellhey everyone....quick question
17:25:17DuoMaxwelli have rockbox installed on my sansa e280 and lately teh library is very slow
17:25:29DuoMaxwellespecially while playing a song
17:25:41DuoMaxwellive tried doing initialize now and update now
17:25:46DuoMaxwelland set load to ram to yes
17:25:53Keithoh ok here goes quick and easy is ipod classic supported?
17:26:29saratogaKeith: seen the front page?
17:27:08Keithyep.. saw something like ipd 80gb video.. my question is is the one? or is classic different coz i dont see classic
17:27:58Keithohh sorry
17:28:01Keithlol i see it
17:28:17DuoMaxwellsaratoga: any chance you know anything regarding my ailment?
17:28:38Keithdaym my bad no classic.. oh well tnks sticking to my e280 then
17:30:13PaulJamDuoMaxwell: have you rebooted after enabling load to ram?
17:30:42fml... so at least a comment that it's intentional is needed (about prev_line = -1)
17:31:04DuoMaxwellis there any way to delete the library manually?
17:31:23DuoMaxwellwell, obviously there is
17:31:26DuoMaxwellill go check on the locations
17:32:28saratogaBuschel: I remember you saying you changed one of the debug screens to print the long term average clock rate in rockbox
17:32:29PaulJamDuoMaxwell: you could delete all *.tcd files in the .rockbox directory and then initialize the database again.
17:32:34saratogahow did you do that?
17:35:05Keithso umm.. there is no way to get rockbox on my classic 80gb right? you guys have plans for that one?
17:35:40DuoMaxwellcheck the forums
17:35:45DuoMaxwelldont be lazy
17:36:20Keithmehh.. ive been on the site for 2 weeks now man give me a break.. just want a yes or a no
17:36:22Keithanyway tnks
17:37:10DuoMaxwelli dont think any ports to the ipod classic are in the works
17:39:07DuoMaxwellbtw thanks PaulJam
17:39:24PaulJamDuoMaxwell: did it help?
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18:10:25DuoMaxwellPaulJam: Yeah it fixed it
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18:15:00saratogawow actually managed to use the mailing list without sending a garbled message
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18:17:20n1ssaratoga: re: that mail, could you make a quick test_codec run with a small change on the e200?
18:18:48saratogan1s: In a little while i can
18:18:49n1slibmad is built with -O2 by default but -O for ipods because iirc it was faster and the test in the makefile is for ipods only while I suspect it should be for all pp targets.
18:19:25saratogahow long ago was that tested?
18:19:38saratogawe've since replaced a lot of the codec with assembly . . .
18:19:39n1sbefore the sansa port even existed
18:20:01saratogashould probably be retested on all targets to make sure thats still right
18:20:03n1syes, but it is worthwile to test anyway imho
18:20:38saratogai will test that today when i get my sansa
18:20:47n1sok, great
18:20:48saratoga-O2 being slower is odd though
18:21:00saratogai wish we could profile ARM, I'd love to know why that happens
18:21:18n1snot really, it often creates much larger code which means worse cache performance
18:21:43saratogathat shouldn't be a big deal on PP, its got fast cache and fast memory
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18:21:59saratogaand if it is, it could be fixed using IRAM if we knew the exact problem
18:22:15saratogasomething is definately up with MAD
18:22:31saratogai can't figure out why its so slow
18:22:47n1syeah, it's over 400% realtime on coldfire...
18:23:43saratogaits fast on coldfire because of the fast multiplier on the emac, but theres no reason it should be so slow on arm
18:24:51saratogait should be at least as fast as vorbis, they've both had their transforms rewritten in assembly, both codecs are regarded as algorithmically efficient, and filterbank in mad should be much faster then the imdct in vorbis
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18:41:25Buschelsaratoga: btw, wouldn't it be more convenient to use MHz instead of % when talking about the codec efficiency? this would take into account the different boosted clocks of the different targets?
18:43:48Buschelfurthermore it will then be obvious that it makes sense to reduce the unboosted clock for codecs like mpc/flac which run at realtime far below the current unboosted clock
18:45:02Buschelmaybe i'll change the output of test_codec to display both results "x MHz (y %)"
18:50:36bluebrotherBuschel: as the CPU is running at two different frequencies only a MHz display would be rather strange to me
18:51:18bluebrotherit doesn't give me an idea about the performance of the codec itself but only some calculated value where it _would_ run at ... 100% or so
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19:13:11n1simho a % value gives a better picture of the performance as you know 200% is 2x realtime but what is 40MHz on cpu x?
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19:18:00Buscheln1s/bluebrother: i would keep the percentage, but would add the MHz. the MHz is the "stronger" result as codecs are in general measured in MHz for realtime decoding. we can easily compare to other decoder manufacturers
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19:18:35saratogaBuschel: I'm still interested in whatever screen you modified to get the actual average clock speed (including DSP and UI overhead)
19:18:40bluebrotherhow should rbutil treat manufacturers names? Currently we have "iHP-100" but "Ipod"
19:18:53saratogamy 250% realtime estimate in the email is pretty far off now that i think about it
19:19:07saratogaprobably closer to 280 or 300%, but i'd love to measure it
19:19:38n1sbluebrother: I would go with the same style as the manual uses (capitalization like regular names)
19:20:35bluebrothern1s: hmm, I think the manual itself isn't consistent too −− it's "Iriver iHP100" etc.
19:20:48bluebrotherbut I'll go with "Ipod" for now.
19:21:07n1sah, maybe modelnames aren't covered...
19:21:26n1sconsistency is nice but tedious :(
19:21:50bluebrotherindeed. rbutil isn't quite good with that in regards of capitalization :(
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19:29:50Buschelsaratoga: i simplay use the audio thread debug screen. two measurements: 1st. 5 screen updates/2, 2nd. 10s per screen update. from this you can calculate the UI and the decoding+playback
19:30:26saratogado you have a patch handy for that?
19:31:10Buschelsaratoga: no (not on my dev-pc), but it's quite simple: the screen already shows the MHz.
19:33:29Buschelsaratoga: plus change "get_action(CONTEXT_STD, HZ/5)" to "..., HZ*10)" in function debug_buffering_thread()
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19:35:23Buschelsaratoga: the decoder's need itself can be calculated from the test_codec-results
19:35:51saratogabut not hte overhead from everything else right?
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19:37:41saratogais -O the same as -O1 in gcc?
19:37:50Buschelthat's the diff between decoder+playback (via debug menu) -decoder (test_codec)
19:37:59n1ssaratoga: yes
19:38:04 Quit bluebrother ("bbl")
19:38:29saratogai'm going to rerun the test to be sure, but it looks like O2 is slightly faster on the Sansa
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19:42:41saratogayeah O2 is faster (204% vs. 201%)
19:42:51saratogaanyone object if I just remove that from the makefile entirely?
19:43:07saratogaor does it need to be verified on PP5002 first?
19:43:59J-23how should I input advanced build flags in Rockbox configure script?
19:44:38J-23I've tried with "DLP" flags, but when compiling I received
19:44:47n1ssaratoga: i think that would be good, yes
19:45:16J-23there isn't any text like <<<<<< in /build/Makefile or /tools/Makefile
19:45:25saratogai'll just change the check to be for "IPOD_3G" instead of "IPOD"
19:45:55 Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら")
19:47:11J-23should I don't use some flags from D, L and P?
19:49:28gevaertsJ-23: is your checkout clean ? '<<<<<<' could come from a bad merge
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19:50:34gevaertsJ-23: from what I see, you have to enter one flag at a time, pressing enter in between
19:50:44gevaertsThen an empty line to end
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19:51:23J-23what's logf() function? (what it does?)
19:51:51saratogawrites stuff to a text file for debugging
19:52:10saratogawell mp3 on the ipods is now 2% faster, so i guess thats something
19:52:15J-23ok, profile.c file is buggy, I'll try Normal build
19:52:36gevaerts2% is not huge, but it's certainly not nothing either
19:53:47J-23I've tried make clean, removing all files and dirs from /build, svn cleanup and svn update
19:53:54J-23but I still receive that error
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19:54:09gevaertsTry 'svn stat' to see if it finds anything fishy
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19:54:43J-23svn stat output is
19:55:26PaulJamthere are conflicts in apps/plugins/SUBDIRS
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19:56:10J-23I changed <<<<<<<.mine to mine
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19:56:30J-23hmm, no such directory - stop
19:57:46J-23ok, I've removed SUBDIRS file and downloaded it from SVN repo.
19:58:01J-23what's profiling function?
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20:53:43AcornAcornI just tried to use my iriver h300 and it seems like the battery is dead. Is it completely impossible to use rockbox with the player powered from the mains?
20:55:30AcornAcornOr is there no way of getting the player to boot into rockbox when the player powers on by being triggered by the mains being plugged it?
20:55:49n1sAcornAcorn: you need to have a working battery even if you use it with the charger plugged in
20:56:48AcornAcornseems to be impossible to get reliable batteries, my last one ballooned, now this one just gives up the ghost
20:57:53AcornAcorni wonder if you could replace the battery with some external AA batteries
20:58:18kinsmCan someone give me a rundown of how I should restart my gigabeats after copying over rockbox? Whenever I get rockbox to run the gigabeat just looks for a firmware update next time I restart it.
20:58:28kinsmits almost like rockbox just isnt sticking
20:59:18gevaertsAcornAcorn: some people seem to have a good luck with replacement h100 or h300 batteries, so there probably are good brands around
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20:59:54*gevaerts doesn't remember what brand or who those people are unfortunately
21:00:00AcornAcornit's a shame I can't just have it plugged into the charger and run rockbox
21:00:22 Quit webguest16 (Client Quit)
21:00:36AcornAcornI haven't kept track of rockbox lately, is there any more progress on usb host for the h300?
21:02:56bluebrotherno. Only usb slave for PP devices.
21:03:01n1sAcornAcorn: I bought a CameronSino battery for my h320 and it's been working nicely for a couple of weeks now
21:03:35 Quit bertrik (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:03:36AcornAcornn1s: that's what I've got. I should probably take a look inside my player and make sure it hasn't leaked
21:03:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:03:59AcornAcornand maybe check it with a voltmeter
21:05:44 Quit davina (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:05:51peturI have to admit that after a year of intense use, my CameronSino battery doesn't last as long as it used to... Maybe they have a large stock of batteries, and age is what kills them :(
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21:07:10LambdaCalculus37Hey guys... wee bit of an oddity here with my cross compiler environment.
21:07:35n1spetur: yeah, i don't think they would produce new batteries for players that have been discontinued for several years...
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21:08:10LambdaCalculus37The configure script is complaining that sh-elf-gcc and sh-elf-ld are not in my $PATH, but I can confirm that I indeed listed /usr/local/sh-elf/bin in my $PATH. Any ideas?
21:08:36LambdaCalculus37And I had recently (about half and hour ago, to be exact) re-ran
21:08:58bluebrotherLambdaCalculus37: does "which sh-elf-gcc" find the binary?
21:09:07LambdaCalculus37Let me check.
21:09:36LambdaCalculus37That's odd...
21:10:15n1sis /usr/local/sh-elf/bin included if you do a "echo $PATH" ?
21:10:38LambdaCalculus37n1s: Yeah, like I said before, I confirmed it was myself.
21:10:58n1sso are the files in there then?
21:11:09bluebrotherwell, looks like it isn't in the PATH. How did you put it in the path?
21:11:30LambdaCalculus37bluebrother: I added it to my .bashrc file.
21:11:58n1sLambdaCalculus37: my point was to try echo $PATH in the terminal to see if it was listed there
21:12:11n1swhich wasn't clear to me if you have done or not
21:12:16bluebrothertry sourcing that file manually: .
21:12:19LambdaCalculus37n1s: I have done so.
21:12:28bluebrotherdang, enter came too early: . ~/.bashrc
21:12:33LambdaCalculus37I added the following line to my .bashrc: "export PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/arm-elf/bin:/usr/local/m68k-elf/bin:usr/local/sh-elf/bin"
21:12:57bluebrotherLambdaCalculus37: there's a / missing in the SH part
21:12:59n1smissing slash
21:13:26*LambdaCalculus37 smacks his forehead
21:13:31LambdaCalculus37D'oh! :P
21:13:39LambdaCalculus37I feel silly now. :)
21:13:46*LambdaCalculus37 fixes his .bashrc
21:14:30n1si did a similar thing when building a crosscompiler myself, a typo in the prefix and it ended up in another dir where i couldn't find it :)
21:15:16LambdaCalculus37Yay, now I can compile for the Archos JBR!
21:15:32LambdaCalculus37n1s, bluebrother: Thanks!
21:15:53LambdaCalculus37kinsm: Need help getting Rockbox to run on your Gigabeat S?
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21:17:05bluebrotherhehe, funny "bug" in rbutil: "Starting bootloader uninstallation ... unsupported install method" ;-)
21:17:47kinsmI sure do heh
21:18:06LambdaCalculus37kinsm: Did you install the patched nk.bin to your S?
21:18:25LambdaCalculus37And compile a build and tar it?
21:18:26 Part J-23
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21:18:50kinsmI havent compiled anything but the sendfirm
21:19:14kinsmbut earlier today I had rockbox running just fine until I restarted the player
21:19:30LambdaCalculus37What were you trying to do?
21:20:15kinsmI just powered it off with the on/off button
21:20:29kinsmand it boots to some kind of firmware recovery
21:21:06kinsmbut I can resend the nk.bin and it will boot to rb just fine
21:21:34LambdaCalculus37When was the last time you rolled a bootloader?
21:22:20kinsmI dont know what you mean
21:22:39kinsmI just snagged my nk.bin from a .zip on the install page on the wiki
21:23:00kinsmthat came with a bootloader.bin that I never did anything with
21:23:23*kinsm is in over his head
21:23:27LambdaCalculus37From here?
21:24:04 Quit bertrik (Remote closed the connection)
21:24:05kinsmright before I started talking to you I was working on setting up the envir to compile everything on my own
21:25:07LambdaCalculus37Ahhh, wait wait wait! I think I know what you may be talking about!
21:25:29LambdaCalculus37Are you taking the single-boot version of the bootloader? The one that completely removes the original firmware?
21:25:52*LambdaCalculus37 claps his hands
21:26:01LambdaCalculus37Bingo! There we go!
21:26:17kinsmfrom reading yesterdays irc log it seems to me like you guys may have the dualboot working
21:26:36LambdaCalculus37Correctamundo! Dual booting DOES work!
21:26:47LambdaCalculus37But, single booting isn't recommended for now!
21:26:59LambdaCalculus37Sooooo... you want to roll a dual-booting bootloader!
21:27:50kinsmThats using the mknkboot correct?
21:28:04LambdaCalculus37That means, you need to get the hacked Gigabeat V updater, open it up, and borrow its nk.bin file, which you then patch with a compiled nk.bin.
21:28:32LambdaCalculus37You use mknkboot to combine the two files, and presto! Dual booting!
21:28:44kinsmalright sounds good
21:28:53LambdaCalculus37Then use sendfirm to send it to your Gigabeat, and sit back and enjoy the fun!
21:28:58kinsmI was getting real close to doing that too
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21:29:11kinsmThanks for the help
21:29:19LambdaCalculus37Any time!
21:30:22LambdaCalculus37Oh yes!
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21:31:00LambdaCalculus37Don't forget that we have a bootloader USB mode for the S now.
21:31:14LambdaCalculus37So whenever you want to update, you can use that.
21:31:34kinsmI remember reading that somewhere on the wiki heh
21:31:36*amiconn really wonders about saratoga's commit
21:32:29amiconnHe changed libmad to compile with -O2 except ipod G3 - but the G1 and G2 are PP5002 as well
21:33:03LambdaCalculus37amiconn: You could ask him when he comes in, I guess.
21:33:16amiconnEither should all ipods use -O2, or PP5002 should continue to use -O. The condition matches neither atm
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21:33:53LambdaCalculus37Speak of the devil...
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21:33:55Buschelamiconn: you've got a PP5002-target, right?
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21:34:08amiconnBoth a G1 and a G2
21:34:15Buschelamiconn: so you could check the -O vs. -O2 option?
21:34:23amiconn(and a spare G2 without hdd)
21:34:23bluebrotherdomonoky: welcome back :)
21:34:27saratogasorry, forgot there was now rockbox on the 1 and 2 gen ipods
21:34:31*LambdaCalculus37 has to run
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21:34:41amiconnsaratoga: Now? It's 10 months...
21:34:43bluebrotheram I correct that ipodpatcher checks the downloaded .ipod file before installing it?
21:34:48saratogamy intention to was to leave PP5002 alone until someone got a chance to check it
21:41:05domonokybluebrother: ipodpatcher does a few checks on the downloaded bootloader file, but i dont know how much checks are there..
21:43:07bluebrotherdomonoky: well, I'll leave that out for now −− but maybe we should think about checking the downloaded file first. If ipodpatcher does enough it's fine ;-)
21:43:18bluebrothersame applies to sansapatcher of course.
21:43:51*domonoky just checked the source of ipodpatcher, and there is a checksum check on the bootloader file, so it should be enough..
21:46:09domonokysansapatcher seems to do less checks,i can only spot a header check for the bootloader file in the sansapatcher..
21:49:39kugelRegarding replay gain. it does decrease battery life in when activated right?
21:50:03kugelIf I have that enabled in rockbox, but the file doesn't have tags (so that no replay gain happens), will it still use more cpu?
21:50:11amiconnWhy should it?
21:51:10amiconnBtw, there is a way o find out for sure: perform runtime tests
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21:51:35kugelthe setting is enabled. I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking
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21:55:18kugelamiconn: I observed the the buffering thread screen a bit, it wasn't clear, since I don't have the same file with and without gain in the tags. Anyway, asking here is faster than testing :p
21:55:43*amiconn wouldn't know
21:56:01amiconnI wouldn't expect replaygain to influence runtime though
22:00:39n1sit adds a small amount of cpu usage but not much at all, other dsp use far more cpu
22:01:02*amiconn wonders how saratoga got 2% speedup on ipod
22:01:31 Quit Horscht ("We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents")
22:02:09kugelThanks for clarification
22:03:08amiconnMy measurements on mini G2 show about 0.7% speedup (test1: 199.9->201.3% realtime), resp. 0.1% (test2: 218.8->219.0% realtime)
22:03:41n1samiconn: maybe different bitrate or something?
22:03:43amiconnPP5002 does in fact profit more from -O2 (about 0.8% speedup in both cases)
22:04:29amiconnn1s: Those test tracks are vastly varying in bitrate. test1 is vbr >200kbps, test2 is 112kbps cbr
22:05:36 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:05:45n1samiconn: ah, maybe he meant percentage units (or whatever they are called) when the absolute difference in % is used
22:06:20 Join gregzx [0] (
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22:07:13n1sanyway, it seems like a good idea to compile libmad with O2 for all targets then
22:07:34 Join gregzx [0] (
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22:08:00amiconnSee ...
22:08:24n1sright :)
22:12:03saratogaamiconn: I used the 192k test track on the codec performance page on a PP5024
22:12:19saratogaruntime increased from 200 to 204%
22:12:28saratogaerr, decode rate increased
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22:19:49markundoes anyone know of a tool to dump embedded bitmap fonts from a ttf font?
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22:34:45DuoMaxwellim trying to play a video in rockbox with mpegplayer but half the video is offscreen
22:34:57DuoMaxwelli need to convert the video to 220x176 dont i?
22:35:52markunDuoMaxwell: yes, you will need to convert it
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22:36:09markunbut the size depends on your screen size and the aspect ratio of the original video
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22:55:50DuoMaxwellmarkun: it was already an mpeg
22:55:52DuoMaxwellbut it was huge
22:56:00DuoMaxwelli have the sansa e280...which is 220x176
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23:03:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:30:25jhMikeSgevaerts: what indicates in the USB driver that the 500mA request was accepted?
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23:36:32kinsmCould anyone tell me what file isnt in order when I get "File not found" in the gigabeats bootloader?
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23:37:19kinsmIm not sure if that a general error or there is a certian file its looking for but having a problem with (like rockbox.gigabeat)
23:38:01markunkinsm: I would expect it's rockbox.gigabeat
23:38:20markunwhere is it located on your player?
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23:38:31BigBambikinsm: that is a know periodic problem
23:38:49markunBigBambi: I'll let you do the talking then :)
23:38:53BigBambiFor some reason the bootloader doesn't find rockbox.gigabeat even though it is in the correct place
23:39:02BigBambimarkun: hehe :)
23:39:07kinsmis there anything that I can do about it?
23:39:18jhMikeSBigBambi: but there's a way to stop it...though I'm not clear about exactly what
23:39:24BigBambikinsm: people in the past have fixed it by restoring the OF, then reinstalling the bootloader
23:39:39BigBambikinsm: but I don't know why
23:39:49BigBambijhMikeS: yeah, its a weird one isn't it
23:39:49kinsmwell Ill give that a try
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23:40:32BigBambikinsm: once you have a 'working' bootloader installed, there don't seem to be any more problems - you can update the build
23:41:18BigBambikinsm: the weird thing is, it isn't even necessarily directly related to the bootloader build - I and another have used the exact same bootloader, it worked fine for me and he had the issues
23:41:58kinsmhrmm thats odd
23:42:05BigBambikinsm: however, having said all that, it might be an idea first to do as markun says and check that rockbox.gigabeat is in the right place - /.rockbox/rockbox.gigabeat
23:42:47kinsmyeah its there, I even replaced it a couple times thinking that it was the culprit
23:42:48BigBambikinsm: It is really odd - some people have never had it (me included), others have had it and a restore then reinstall worked, ....
23:44:27kinsmhow do I boot to the windows firmware once I have the bootloader properly installed?
23:44:34BigBambiturn hold on
23:44:40kinsmnot a whole lot of documentation flying around heh
23:44:45kinsmalright thanks
23:44:48BigBambithe port isn't ready yet
23:45:16*kinsm is antsy
23:45:16BigBambiit is pretty much for devs at this point - install on your own back
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23:47:01kinsmok everything is working after installing from the OF again
23:47:38kinsmgreat work on the port so far, ive been waiting awhile
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23:50:48n1skinsm: now get hacking! :)
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23:51:12kinsmheh if I knew what I was doing I would love to help you guys
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23:58:32secleinteerso, any word on work on the port for the creative zen? ;/

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