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#rockbox log for 2008-06-04

00:02:31 Quit hannesd (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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00:40:19Nico_Ppreglow, amiconn: it's still better with the hack, unfortunately
00:42:32pixelman1s: do you perhaps know if there is something for the manual that lets me "name" a link independently from the URL, like e.g. in html?
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00:56:44amiconnNico_P: Someone with access to a G5.5/80 should try to track down the real problem instead of covering it up...
00:57:12Nico_Pamiconn: you mean someone like me? :à
00:57:50amiconnWell, who has LinusN's G5.5/80?
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00:58:24 Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.")
00:58:51Nico_Pstill me... although I have thought of sending it to jhMikeS, given how I have no idea how to track this sort of issue down
00:59:18amiconnThe travelling ipod story ;)
01:00:29ShaidI have a g5.5/80...
01:00:37*Shaid goes to read the logs to see what you're all on about
01:01:05Nico_Pamiconn: do you think it's hardware related? ie init/setup or something like that...
01:01:57*stripwax wonders what would happen if you fit an 80gb disk onto a 5g ipod
01:01:58amiconnI have no idea. I never experienced the problem
01:03:35Nico_Pstripwax: from what I understood, it's likely to start happening. IIRC it happens even when you put a regular 30GB build on a 80GB ipod (meaning the disk seems to be causing it)
01:03:56Nico_PI should probably test that again to make sure
01:04:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:05:06stripwaxIs the symptom skipping, or just large and sudden disk load/seeking?
01:05:30stripwax(asking since I experienced the former on 60GB 5g ipod)
01:07:59Nico_Pstripwax: I think the main symptom is heavy disk activity and decreased responsiveness
01:08:20Nico_Pthe skipping is probably related but I never experienced it
01:08:43Nico_Pamiconn: would you feel like trying to track the issue down if I sent you the ipod back?
01:11:33Nico_PI'll check the logs for the answer... bed time
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01:18:24n1spixelma: sorry, not of the top of my head...
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02:55:33jhMikeSgevaerts: ping
02:57:10wpyhI have a 5.5G 80GB
02:57:17wpyhhaven't installed RB on it yet, though
02:57:50wpyhI was wondering which nick jethead71 corresponds to
02:58:05jhMikeSto me
02:58:36wpyhI didn't find MikeSevakis in the wiki either
02:59:23*jhMikeS wonders why he's being tracked down
03:03:17wpyhjhMikeS: because of the reinstatement of the ATA hack, I think
03:05:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:05:14wpyhjhMikeS: so the problem seems to be skipping, eh?
03:05:20jhMikeSwpyh: Just to keep it useable until somehow the root cause gets tracked down...whatever that may ultimately prove to be.
03:05:46wpyhcan we reproduce the probem reliably?
03:05:54jhMikeSwpyh: not nescessarily, there seems to be a some variability in the severity
03:06:14jhMikeSwpyh: yes
03:06:31wpyhjhMikeS: how?
03:08:28jhMikeSwpyh: 1) disable the hack 2) turn on database auto refresh + dircache + resume at startup
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03:10:44wpyhok, after that what should I expect?
03:11:05jhMikeSperhaps a lack of UI responsiveness
03:11:21jhMikeSperhaps audio skipping
03:12:16Shaideh, I thought the UI responsiveness issues was a feature on my 5.5...
03:12:31wpyhok, let me make a note of it
03:12:49wpyhwhich media / ipods have you tried it on? (jhMikeS, Shaid)
03:13:52 Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
03:14:40jhMikeSwpyh: No target I own has this problem and I own alot of them. I borrowed a 5.5g 30GB and it doesn't have any issues either which is basically the same build but for 32MB RAM.
03:15:22jhMikeSI even forced large-sector access like with 60/80 on other targets and had no issues with that either
03:15:44ShaidI'm still not sure what the actual issue is.
03:16:00wpyhSo basically, this is hard to reproduce, eh?
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03:17:14*wpyh just finished backing up his ipov video
03:17:21jhMikeSno, not at all. it's easily made to happen on the 60/80 5.5g but no other target shows any sign of the problem
03:18:20wpyhBy the way, my 80GB shows up as "sd 118:0:0:0: [sdb] 39075372 2048-byte hardware sectors (80026 MB)" on dmsg
03:18:22jhMikeSit seems that after amiconn's fix of waiting longer for HD power to stabilize partially fixed the problem
03:18:27wpyhnotice the 2048-byte sectors
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03:19:09wpyhjhMikeS: how many music files did you have on the iPod when the problem occurs?
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03:19:17jhMikeSI know about the sector sizes but that just correlated
03:19:26wpyhjhMikeS: and how does the 30GB look like? 512? 1024?
03:19:27jhMikeSwpyh: thousands
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03:19:43jhMikeSthis one was 1024-byte sectors since it's a 5.5g
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03:19:55wpyhjhMikeS: so, with little files we can't easily reproduce the problem?
03:19:57jhMikeSor at least throught the ipodpatcher
03:20:45jhMikeSI don't think there's any issue with how many files are on the disk
03:28:30wpyhok, I'll try it later
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04:13:34allelefor the bmp functions of rockbox, the x and y values are for the top left corner of the image, correct?
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05:06:56basskozzQuick Question, If I install Rockbox on my iPod can I still use iTunes to download podcasts ?
05:09:04basskozzThanks scorche|sh
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05:42:03saratogaanyone know if plugin_end_addr is defined for the sim?
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07:05:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:29:36JdGordonwell this is farking wacked! is the %?C conditional broken?
07:32:43 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
07:32:57PaulJamhow is it broken? i don't see anything unusual.
07:34:35JdGordontesting out the cond vp patch... using the conditional to choose voewports seems to stop scrolling! %mh works fine though
07:34:40PaulJamok, now i see it...
07:37:48*JdGordon off to pretend to study :p
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07:44:00amiconnsaratoga: No, it's not, and neither is plugin_start_addr. This is because simulator plugins are shared objects on linux resp. DLLs on windows.
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07:48:15amiconnThe variables are defined by the linker script; see
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08:01:52PaulJamJdGordon: concerning the %C tag. i think the reason that the text doesn't scroll is that in wps_parser.c it is set to WPS_REFRESH_STATIC. i did a little test and changed it to WPS_REFRESH_DYNAMIC and then the scrolling works. maybe this helps you to find a proper solution.
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08:25:09Buschelamiconn/wpyh: could please take a look at
08:27:25Shaidaren't you now missing a #endif ?
08:27:54Buschelyep, here's the corrected one:
08:30:44Buschelgotta go to work now, let's about this patch later :)
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08:52:19JdGordon_PaulJam: thanks, thats interesting and not expected at all.... unless ive got the meaning of those flags wrong... it being static should mean its more likely to work with scrolling because it wont be refreshed often..? Nico_P any ideas?
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09:15:22amiconnJdGordon: You got the meaning of those flags correct afaik
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09:18:03JdGordonhmm... its odd... I've changed the %Vl tag to WPS_REFRESH_DYNAMIC which seems to fix that problem, although, im not sure if thats the correct fix
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09:45:03JdGordonmorning pixelma, any chance I can get the full .wps (and bmps) from you?
09:45:40pixelmayeah ok... this one is also a bit commented...
09:45:59*scorche pokes LinusN
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09:50:46nicolas__hi guys
09:52:06PaulJampixelma: could you try how your WPS works when you add a few (maybe 10) blank lines at the top of the .wps file?
09:52:59nicolas__ok I have one question that maybe thousands and thousands people already answered: Is there anyway to put alternative freeware on a 6th Gen Ipod? If not, is there anyway to hope there will be one sometimes?
09:53:31scorchethere is no hope as long as no one is working on it
09:53:55JdGordonPaulJam: ok, that worked.... why?
09:53:59nicolas__that's a good answer
09:54:03nicolas__thx anyway
09:54:30JdGordonsomething is not right in the land of viewport[0]
09:55:25pixelmaPaulJam: here even more lines vanish but the "hole" in the two upper right viewports on hold isn't there anymore
09:56:17nicolas__I guess i need to buy a 5thg on ebay so ;)
09:56:34nicolas__thx again bye guys
09:56:51PaulJamJdGordon: some WPS tags clear the whole line. for example %C %pm and also conditionals. i think it has always been this way, but with viewports this becomes a problem because it seems as if a line from the main viewport can clear contents of other viewports.
09:57:12pixelmaso the upper half of it works correctly now but the second half is mostly blank (except the one image that's still there)
09:58:35*JdGordon is confused
09:59:44pixelmaah, didn't add enough blank lines
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10:01:34PaulJamJdGordon: i would think the reason for this is, that when you have a conditional like <|some text> and the first condition is true, then you don't want to have parts of the second condition still on the screen, so the whole line gets cleaared.
10:03:28 Part nicolas__ ("Quitte")
10:04:20JdGordonputting the conditionals inside a %V|0|0|0|0|0|000000|000000| fixes that blank line
10:04:25JdGordonbut thats not a nice solution...
10:04:54LloreanI thought you weren't supposed to have lines in the "main" viewport any more. Like, it's possible, but you're not intended to unless you're not using any viewports.
10:05:54JdGordonso what? disable drawing if its the main viewport and other viewports are defined?
10:05:57pixelmaneeded to add as many blank lines as would fit on the screen (8 in my case with nimbus-10)
10:07:17LloreanJdGordon: Or just note "unexpected behaviour can occur if you have lines both inside and outside of viewports" and leave it at that?
10:07:19JdGordondisabling drawing in the default vp works
10:07:55JdGordonthats probably a nicer solution than forcing users to create a sperate viewport for the conditionals
10:08:17pixelmaLlorean: the only lines I have "outside" of viewports are the conditionals for the other viewports...
10:08:31JdGordonPaulJam: nice job spotting that :)
10:08:41Lloreanpixelma: Ah, I was just reading PaulJam's note which seemed to be about normal conditionals.
10:09:56pixelmaPaulJam: yes, nice pointer. I knew about the problems (only encountered with album art so far), but didn't recognise it here
10:10:46*JdGordon goes to update the patch
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10:13:05gevaertsjhMikeS: pong
10:13:42JdGordonpixelma: are you allowed to use a image in different viewports? or is it only 1 vp per pic?
10:15:16pixelmain that wps I use one and the same bitmap strip (though different parts) in different viewports, seems to work
10:17:33pixelmastill works when I use the same part in different vps
10:17:33JdGordonok then.. maybe that wierd loop has to stay then
10:21:19pixelmaJdGordon: do you still need the full wps?
10:22:05JdGordonnot really if the problem has gone away, although I would like to have a look anyway
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10:31:22pixelmaJdGordon: yes, the problem is fixed with the latest patch
10:31:42JdGordonhopefully that limitation isnt a big deal...
10:31:55JdGordonwere there other issues with the patch that havnt been fixed yet?
10:33:57jhMikeSgevaerts: hey. I saw your response in the logs. The main thing I need to know with USB charging is how I can know what the actual maximum power ok'ed by the host is.
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10:35:50pixelmaJdGordon: seems not. I just tried the %pb again and it looks correctly now
10:36:08PaulJami had some issues with the normal progressbar, but i haven't checked with hte latest version yet
10:38:26JdGordonok, in that case... ill prepare a merged patch with the remove lcd margins patch to make sure that doesnt cause anything funny.... I want to be able to commit then one after another and preferably without any bugs afterwards :) (as novel as that would be:p)
10:38:44PaulJamJdGordon: the text-only default WPS doesn't have text anymore (uisim)
10:39:20JdGordonpatch 9a or 9?
10:40:01JdGordonmaybe I had it right the first time :p
10:40:50*JdGordon fails logic
10:43:43JdGordondinner time, but that problem is fixed
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11:13:52pixelmaJdGordon: heh... as PaulJam said with the 9a patch the default wps is broken and it's the fallback you'll get with a "broken" wps...
11:14:22JdGordonyeah, i uploaded .9b which fixes that
11:14:37JdGordon%m needs to be removed...
11:16:02gevaertsjhMikeS: right now, if it's OK'ed, it's 500mA. I have some vague ideas of presenting more choices to the host, but I'm not even sure if that will work as expected
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11:17:51jhMikeSgevaerts: I'm not sure exactly how I tell the 500mA was ok'ed though from "CONFIGURED". I have a keyboard I can plug a device that wants to charge into its hub and it it tries to charge through it windows brings up a dialogue about it using too much current.
11:19:58gevaertsjhMikeS: I'm not exactly sure what causes windows to say that, but there are two possibilities, (1) windows sees the 500mA request, sees an unpowered hub, and decides that this will not work. That means it won't do the SET_CONFIGURATION and you're not in state CONFIGURED
11:20:37jhMikeSCONFIGURED is the state when _all_ features requested by the device are granted?
11:20:51gevaerts(2) the device lies and says it only needs 100mA, windows enumerates, and then the hub detects overcurrent and shuts down the port (but I think that this would be a different message)
11:21:25jhMikeSI can connect rockbox UMS through that hub though without a problem
11:21:31PaulJamJdGordon: with 9b : the progressbar doesn't change coordinaes and size when you swich to a font with a different height. and would it be possible to decrease the height of the progressbar a little, so that you have at least 1 pisel room between the bottom of the progressbar and the next line? for example in the default WPS the progressbar is directly attached to the peakmeter which doesn't look so good.
11:22:46gevaertsjhMikeS: Then probably hypothesis (2) is the correct one. According to the spec windows should refuse to enumerate, but...
11:23:00JdGordonyes, you need to reload the wps when the font changes, I dont tihnk this is a big deal.. and yeah, chop 2 pixels off the height and put it at 1 pixel lower than the top of the line?
11:23:36pixelmathe old pb was 7 pixels per default and at the bottom of a 8 pixels line (to go with the default font size) IIRC
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11:27:31jhMikeSgevaerts: Now I'm a bit more confused. A device requesting max_power over what the hub can provide shouldn't be enumerated? Before I was under the impression it can say "no, you'll have to settle for 100mA" or whatever.
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11:27:54*gevaerts enjoys confusing jhMikeS :)
11:28:29gevaertsjhMikeS: Basically it can't say that, but it's a bit more complicated.
11:29:09*JdGordon wants syntax highlighting for .wps in kate!
11:30:26gevaertsA device can present the host with a choice of configurations, each with different power requirements and functionality. If you do that, the host can easily choose a configuration that works, and in that case CONFIGURED would indeed not indicate 500mA
11:30:43jhMikeSBasically, I want to implement something that the charger algorithm will enagage chargin gonly when enough USB power is available and the charger is not connected.
11:31:29jhMikeSso then the driver would get notified of the chosen config?
11:32:33gevaertsYes. For example, we have configuration 1 with 500mA, and configuration 2 with 100mA. The SET_CONFIGURATION call tells the device which one to use
11:32:54gevaertsMaybe we need a usb_core_has_500mA() function
11:33:54gevaertsBut the main problem is that historically too many devices have ignored the rules, so windows is lenient, which gives you this issue that it accepts 500mA while the hub can't deliver them
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11:34:41gevaertsBut maybe windows will choose the 100mA configuration in that case if it gets a choice. We'll have to test that
11:36:43amiconnusb_allowed_current() would be better imo
11:37:58*gevaerts agrees
11:38:21jhMikeSamiconn: could that be part of the hub issue you're having?
11:38:34gevaertsNo. That's different
11:40:59jhMikeSI've also been wondering if in fact all PP targets have some sort of ATA issue that is affecting the USB stack and it's simply more severe with 5.5g 60/80.
11:42:28amiconnI doubt that. (1) The USB issue also affect the sansas, which don't use ata. (2) The USB issue is that USB doesn't work via hubs, and that's not a current issue. My hub is powered.
11:44:14gevaertsWe could test if it's ATA/SD related by using a ramdisk. I'll try to do that tonight. I'm pretty sure it's a timing issue somewhere, so that could make a difference
11:45:59gevaertsIt's actually easy to reproduce even without amiconn's hub, only then you need more hubs. I get issues if I put at least three hubs between the host and the device.
11:46:17gevaerts(easy = if you happen to have some spare hubs lying around)
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11:51:55dunnois a Samuel katz in the house, I would like to discuss the wording changes you made to the h1xx flash procedure in the wiki
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11:53:17dunnoanyone know what Mr. Samuel katz's forum or irc nick is ?
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11:58:27dunno? for users here, how would you interpret this statement; "navigate to the .rockbox directory, enter it and scroll down to bootloader.iriver, " I'm not happy with the wording "enter it" (after directory), as this could be interpreted as execute the .rockbox directory
11:59:03gevaertsHow would you execute it ?
11:59:49petur'entering a directory' is a fairly common way of saying imho
12:00:09dunnoI'm thinking of this from a user point of view, remmeber that these are flashing instructions
12:01:07gevaertsYes, but I don't see how you can interpret this in any wrong way
12:01:26peturand navi enters the directory on h1x0
12:01:45petureuh sorry, browses to the directory :p
12:03:12dunnonope navi doesn't quite mean browse, it means press and hold down button or joystick
12:04:51peturnavi = pressing the joystick (not holding it)
12:05:10peturnavi and right do the same in the browser
12:05:30dunnoguess I'm being a bit paranoid thinking that a user is going to somehow try and "enter" the .rockbox directory
12:05:42peturso what?
12:06:01gevaertsYou mean break open the screen and try to get in ?
12:06:11dunnorighto, you're happy with it, thats good enough for me
12:06:13*gevaerts still doesn't see what other meaning "enter" has
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12:07:51k4ymaybe it could be rewritten to "navigate into the .rockbox directory"?
12:07:58*petur goes looking for some food
12:08:13k4y(not that i think "enter it" is confusing, but the whole sentence is a somewhat awkward)
12:08:56gevaertsDo "users" know what navigate means ?
12:12:01k4ywell, i'm fairly sure that most english speakers know what navigate means and will understand how to interpret it
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12:28:49*jhMikeS is wondering how to sneak in the allowed power options in the driver
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12:48:11hasmindcan particles reflect and refract, or do u have to duplivert with spheres?
12:49:07*gevaerts thinks that hasmind meant to say that in the other channel he's in
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13:26:35jhMikeSgevaerts: what's the minimum needed to present more than one current configuration? I see a master config descriptor being sent out with a list of driver ones. Does it require the entire lot of them to be sent twice for each max_power setting?
13:30:15*jhMikeS just decides to go read the spec and not be overly annoying :)
13:30:37Nico_PjhMikeS: working on the beast?
13:31:05jhMikeSof course
13:31:16Nico_Phow's it going?
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13:32:56jhMikeSa bit on the slow side for charging - it really needs all possible precautions taken since software is mostly in control here and it might as well just have all the stuff work from the start as well
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13:43:37*Nico_P likes the openstreetmap idea (for targets with nice screens)... it's a nice use for sqlite
13:45:43*PaulJam would like to see that too
13:46:06Nico_P(FS #9071 in case someone wonders what I'm taking about)
13:49:38JdGordonBORING! stick that on your phone... much betterer
13:50:11*Nico_P doesn't have an iPhone/smartphone
13:50:18*pixelma would also like a "rock"stable swcodec playback engine ;\
13:53:42Nico_Ppixelma: who wouldn't? I wish there were more devs working on it...
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14:14:45dionoeaHi. I'm considering buying on of the new sansa devices (even if rockbox doesn't run on those yet). Which one would you guys recommend? (I was thinking about the Fuse)
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14:18:43*B4gder has no idea
14:21:05gevaertsjhMikeS: every configuration needs a full configuration descriptor
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14:27:55dionoeaIn fact I just need a device which implement MTP ... so maybe some other brand would also work. It's just that the sansas look like good devices
14:28:04jhMikeSgevaerts: thanks. I was getting that feeling from the docs. btw, one "unit load" of power is 100mA?
14:28:15dionoea(This is to test MTP support which is being added to VLC as part of Google Summer of Code)
14:29:27gevaertsjhMikeS: yes. usb 2.0 spec, 7.2.1, "A unit load is defined to be 100 mA."
14:31:09gevaertsjhMikeS: I wouldn't actually be surprised if the windows behaviour on high current is different depending on whether USB_CONFIG_ATT_SELFPOWER is set
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14:40:44jhMikeSgevaerts: well, I suppose I can find that out when I'm at the proper point in this :)
14:42:43DerPapstdionoea: gigabeat s does MTP :)
14:43:01GodEaternot once we've got our hands on it ;)
14:43:34DerPapstyep :P
14:44:10DerPapstbut one day rockbox might implement mtp too ;)
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14:45:16*GodEater shudders
14:47:37*gevaerts points out that MTP also has advantages
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14:49:35*DerPapst can see large discussions about the file structure already
14:50:03gevaertsWhat's wrong with 'however you like' ?
14:52:20GodEaterI've not seen an implementation of MTP which lets you choose
14:52:31GodEaterwhich is not to say that it's not possible of course
14:53:24DerPapstdo all mtp devices store the files in the same way? Contents/ in the root etc?
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14:54:33gevaertsNo idea
14:54:54Nico_PI don't think so
14:55:09LambdaCalculus37All depends on the device, doesn't it?
14:55:26DerPapstthis is what i mean.. you could do a Music/Artist/Album structure this way.
14:55:28LambdaCalculus37The Gigabeast does store all of its MTP media in the /Contents folder on the root of the device.
14:56:04gevaertsAs far as I understand it, you basically have a tree structure with files (so you can map the filesystem directly, or you can map the database directly)
14:56:06LambdaCalculus37But on the other hand, the Sansa e200 and c200 devices store their MTP content in /system/mtpconent on the root.
14:56:39DerPapsthowever i bet MTP isn't wanted by the majority of the users ;)
14:57:01LambdaCalculus37I certainly don't want it. ;)
14:57:14LambdaCalculus37I like my UMS devices!
14:57:35gevaertsThe main reasons I see to implement MTP are (1) you can update the database on the fly, which saves both batteries and time (no need to rescan the entire disk), and (b) since you're at file level, you don't need exclusive disk access so the device remains usable (playback, games,...)
14:58:42LambdaCalculus37Well, I understand the reasoning behind (1).
14:59:00LambdaCalculus37Besides, it's not like we Linux users are locked out of MTP devices, anyway.
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14:59:56DerPapsti have to admit i like both reasons
15:01:03gevaertsThere are disadvantages as well of course, so we would always leave it as an option
15:01:09LambdaCalculus37Correct me if I'm wrong... I thought that even MTP access requires interrupting normal DAP usage as well.
15:02:01gevaertsMaybe most OFs do that, but I see no reason why that should be required
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15:03:52gevaertsIf you can manage files while playing, you can also add some files that come from outside
15:04:48gevaertsYou could actually do MTP as a plugin if we extend the plugin lib to include some USB functions
15:05:11*gevaerts starts showing signs og insanity
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15:06:26gevaertsThanks :)
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15:15:33LambdaCalculus37As long we don't do some daft USB communication method like the Rio Karma. :)
15:22:27*LambdaCalculus37 *still* doesn't understand the communication protocol used in the Karma!
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15:24:26PaulJamwould RTC synchronisation theoretically be possible?
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15:27:48gevaertsI don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if mtp supports that
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15:48:29jhMikeSgevaerts: is it required that all configurations be sent in a single response (ie. one usb_drv_send call)
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15:53:02gevaertsjhMikeS: yes.
15:53:49gevaertsjhMikeS: You also need to change device_descriptor.bNumConfigurations and the bConfigurationValue values in the config descriptors
15:55:22jhMikeSI'm mostly worried that I'll have to increase the response_data buffer size
15:56:31gevaertsI think 256 bytes should be enough for two configurations at least
15:56:42jhMikeSwith all drivers enabled?
15:58:42*gevaerts thinks
15:59:02gevaertsUMS is an interface (12 bytes) and two endpoints (7 bytes each). serial currently is the same, although we might need to add a bit there. charging is only sent if there is nothing else (IIRC)
15:59:51LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: I was curious... how much runtime do you get out of your Gigabeast on average?
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16:00:30gevaertsConfigurarion itself is 9 bytes
16:00:32*gevaerts counts
16:01:01gevaertshm., interface is 9, not 12
16:01:33gevaertsSo that's 55 bytes for a full set if I counted correctly.
16:01:36jhMikeSLambdaCalculus37: Enough that I've never run it down but then I tend to have had enough music before I turn it off and charge again. It's been serval hours and the battery around 3.9V or so
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16:02:36LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: Strange, then, that even if I run the battery down an hour or so, sometimes my beast won't turn back on again unless I charge it a little bit.
16:03:11LambdaCalculus37I know power management isn't complete yet, but I do know that the battery certainly can't be completely drained after an hour.
16:03:30gevaertsSo currently you can fit 4 configurations in response_data. Serial might eat a bit more in the future and reduce that to 3. Audio will eat a bit more, so once that's in 256 bytes might be too small
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16:04:14jhMikeSgevaerts: I'm happy so long as it doesn't need to increase just for this little thing
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16:05:43gevaertsjhMikeS: we'll still have to see if it actually behaves decently
16:07:13jhMikeSLambdaCalculus37: What battery voltage does it drop to. The BATTON voltage is 3.43V which is the minimum the PMIC allows before allowing powerup.
16:08:43LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: Currently, my battery voltage is 3.704V.
16:08:50jhMikeSgevaerts: your main concern?
16:10:41gevaertsjhMikeS: I don't know if windows (and/or others) will do the right thing. If it always chooses the highest available power setting for the port it's plugged into, fine, but otherwise it won't work well
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16:13:28jhMikeSgevaerts: are configurations given in preferred order?
16:14:16jhMikeSfirst = "best"?
16:14:41gevaertsI would think so, but I'm not sure
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16:16:16gevaertsActually, I think that the GET_DESCRIPTOR request should only return a single configuration descriptor, depending on the low byte of req->wValue
16:17:04jhMikeSIn other words the host enumerates them?
16:19:44jhMikeSthat makes more sense actually and is easier to incorporate :)
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16:29:44faemirIs there a way to make my rbutil actually use my qt4 theme instead of looking horrible?
16:45:12JdGordonscorche: whats the story with
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16:45:57JdGordon.. if we are going to do another batch of breaking wps compatibility, are we gonna try timing it with the site going live again?
16:46:09scorche|shJdGordon: currently sitting there looking pretty while linuxstb tries to find some time to work on the site
16:46:27JdGordonhmm, is he gonna be at devcon?
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16:47:45JdGordonwiki says no
16:48:36scorche|shso it would seem
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18:05:02mcuelenaerescorche|sh: what's the current blocker on ? (I haven't really been following all of it)
18:05:50scorche|shmcuelenaere: linuxstb has been making a newer, much better version of the site....he just hasnt had much RL time to work on it for the moment
18:06:54mcuelenaereahh ok
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18:12:18std|denishello, All
18:13:55FOADhello, One
18:13:57std|denisdoes "Reset" button should restart the iRiver H120 from any state it could be?
18:14:30std|denisi got <*PANIC* Event not found> state, and my device not respond on clicks on "Reset" :(
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18:15:23std|denisso the only method i found to shut it down was the battery disconnection
18:15:55PaulJamon a panic just pressing PLAY should reboot or turn off, but the reset buttton should always turn off the device.
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18:26:14PaulJamstd|denis: just to avoid confusion, you did mean the button that is only reacheable through a hole at the bottom of the device, right?
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18:32:16stdPaulJam: damn it) i didn't checked the reset in the normal mode. it seems to be broken :(
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18:36:23stdand another question: is it possible to obtain the source code of bootloader for H120?
18:36:58Bagderstd: all code is in svn, and the source 7zip
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18:37:00stdthe stable version, which binary is recommended to install
18:38:39stdBagder: hmm.. as i can understand there are lot of changes since the build attached to Wiki's article [11 Jul 2006]
18:38:47stdis it safe to use current svn? :)
18:39:06Bagderwe recommend using the binaries for the iriver h1x0 bootloaders
18:40:04n1sstd: also you can get any revision from any date from svn, the rev from which the binaries were built should be tagged
18:40:50stdn1s: thanks. i'll try this
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18:52:07stder.. i wonder why iriver's bootloaders aren't updated so long?
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18:53:43markunstd|denis: because they work well?
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18:56:06bluebrotherbecause it's quite dangerous releasing a h100 bootloader?
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18:57:59std|denis:) okie, i got it)
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19:29:34fmlI'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but: there're problems with high speed USB, right? But Linux has already implemented USB. Why not take the principles from there?
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19:38:43bertrikNo doubt people have looked at the linux sources, but the current problems appear to be signal integrity problems AFAIK
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19:42:10wpyhbertrik: signal integrity?
19:43:04bertrikwpyh: you better ask gevaerts, but there are problems that only manifest themselves with certain types of USB hubs
19:43:38wpyhnow it seems to me gevaerts is the USB guy :)
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19:50:17PaulPositionuh... just built a simulator (vmwared debian) for iriver h10.. In the archos folder, where I used to put some music and the wps/fonts/backgrounds and such for testing, there's now nothing to be seen. Where do I go to with my files? :o
19:51:49pixelmaforgot "make install" maybe?
19:52:18*bertrik wonders why the install directory is still called archos
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19:54:47PaulPositionThat's not the problem : weirdly enough starting uisimulator works, I just can't locate where the rockbox build has been stored to put my own files there..
19:55:55PaulPosition(and I'm not even drunk)
19:56:42BagderPaulJam: archos/.rockbox
19:56:49BagderPaulPosition even
19:57:38PaulPositionOh.. So the debian vmware image would hide hidden ( .xxx) files and folder? Duh, didn't even think of it.
19:57:57PaulPositionand you're right. :o
19:58:01PaulPositionthanks Bagder
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19:58:27Bagderbertrik: good old tradition!
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20:07:06amiconnfml: Afaik ipl doesn't have usb implemented
20:10:00fmlamiconn: I mean the 'big' linux
20:10:19gevaertsfml: that won't help. The issues we have are PortalPlayer specific
20:10:23amiconnThe big linux usb implementation won't help us at all
20:10:26 Join mib_0xvv1e [0] (i=5a2c5c4e@gateway/web/ajax/
20:11:20amiconn(1) The stack is OS specific, and the stack in rockbox seems to work well. (2) The problem is with the driver, and that's PP specific (3) The big linux implements the usb host side, while we have to handle the device side
20:11:34 Quit std|denis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:12:22amiconnThe problems are not limited to highspeed, btw
20:12:44mib_0xvv1ehey please don t someone have a aoler.lang but already compiled, so I can copy it to my iPod directly?
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20:17:28amiconn(a) highly unlikely (b) impossible to tell without knowing your exact ipod model
20:17:29gevaertsmib_0xvv1e: most people here don't look at their irc window continuously, so you need to have a bit of patience
20:18:09amiconn.lng files are target specific
20:18:12mib_0xvv1ei ve got a iPod nano
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20:23:58fmlgevaerts: ah, ok. And nobody has been able to decompile the OF? (I know, I know, it could be me :-)
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20:24:45*LambdaCalculus37 is looking at some Telechips info on the wiki
20:24:59bertrikamiconn: I think linux also supports some device side USB chipsets to make it act as a "USB gadget", we could still take a peek at that code
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20:25:43bertrikBTW, jhMikeS fixed some interrupt disable / clear mistakes a few days ago and I think it also affected some USB code
20:26:43gevaertsfml: you're welcome to try :) Anyway the issues are probably timing related, maybe due to RAM access setup
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20:31:41fmlgevaerts: has the sansa OF v1 been dissected like v2 is being dissected now? Is the USB code block identified?
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20:32:26gevaertsfml: I don't know actually. I just work from the imx31 datasheet
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20:36:00PaulJam_Slasheri (or someone else with Database knowledge): there were several reports from users where the database initialisation did not work unless they manually removed the .tcd files. Schouldn't "initialise now" start clean and not care about previous database files?
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20:57:08SlasheriPaulJam_: "initialize now" will remove all .tcd files before it starts the job
20:58:26PaulJam_Slasheri: see for example here:
20:59:54 Quit mib_0xvv1e (" ajax IRC Client")
21:00:09Slasherihmm, maybe the problem was that the temp file was still present
21:00:34Slasheriit seems that is not removed automatically.. i will add it to the remove_files() function
21:01:58gevaertsamiconn: if you have some time, could you try gevaerts/ramdisk.diff"> with your hub ? It exposes a 20MB ramdisk instead of normal ata, so if the problem is in any way related to ata interrupts or memory accesses, it should "help" (and we will know a bit more)
21:02:23gevaertsamiconn: I can try tomorrow at work if you can't do it today, so no hurry
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21:03:55wpyhhas anyone tried the cf card mod for the ipod video?
21:04:05wpyhI tried it, but it insisted on having 2048 byte sectors
21:04:09wpyhso it didn't work
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21:04:44gevaerts"it" ? The apple boot firmware ?
21:05:20gevaertsCan't you format the CF with 2048 byte sectors ?
21:05:21wpyhI inserted a CF card (8 GB transcend 133x, MLC)
21:05:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:05:38wpyhwhat do you mean by "format the CF card with 2048 byte sectors"?
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21:07:21gevaertsbasically follow the steps in, and make sure you have a partition table that assumes 2048 byte sectors (sfdisk should be able to do that)
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21:08:58wpyhnow something's weird
21:09:22wpyhthere's a picture of the data cable
21:09:39wpyhthen when I inserted the data cable, the apple logo appears with a progress bar underneath
21:09:44wpyhdo you know what that means?
21:09:58n1swhat happens if you restore it with itunes tith the cf card inside?
21:10:08wpyhI don't have iTunes, I'm using Linux
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21:14:36scorche|sherrr...doesnt the apple logo with a progress bar underneath mean it is flashing?
21:14:50wpyhI didn't do anything to the ipod
21:15:26gevaertswpyh: maybe put the 30GB-2048 mbr on it (from a cardreader), put it in the ipod, get it in disk mode, and then delete and recreate the data partition ?
21:15:35 Quit crash91 ("Ex-Chat")
21:15:47wpyhI don't have a card reader right now
21:15:49gevaertsOf course first check if it is indeed not flashing. Interrupting that is dangerous
21:16:10gevaertsMaybe you can do it from disk mode too, not sure
21:16:15wpyhno, it's currently in disk mode (the "forbidden" sign with the words "Do not disconnect")
21:16:16gevaertsDepends on how much works
21:16:43wpyhI need to learn sfdisk usage first :p
21:16:44scorche|shi dont know why it would be flashing in linux though..
21:17:50gevaertsMaybe it means "really needs recovery" ?
21:18:11wpyhum... what I did was: use fdisk to create a partition table, then copy the firmware to the first partition
21:18:24wpyhgevaerts: what do you mean by "really needs recovery"?
21:19:06Buschelamiconn/wpyh: any guesses about that's the result of yesterdays intensive test session
21:19:07gevaertswpyh: I don't know, maybe the rom shows that when it really dislikes the partition table ?
21:19:29wpyhgevaerts: ah, maybe
21:19:35wpyhI didn't flash it though :)
21:19:58wpyhBuschel: I'm modding my video with a cf card...
21:20:50wpyhI mean I'm not hacking my nano right now
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21:21:50cpbillsusing playlist to create a playlist of the / doesn't seem to include *.ogg ... is this intentional/known?
21:23:00Buschelwpyh: ok, but maybe you'll find time to run a battery bench with this change? ;-)
21:23:14wpyhyes, I'll definitely benchmark the video :D
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21:23:42Buschelhappy modding! ;)
21:23:56wpyhBuschel: actually, I need some help here...
21:24:35Buschelwhat kind of?
21:25:06wpyhHow to put the OF onto the CF card and get it to boot
21:25:24n1scpbills: how did you create the playlist?
21:25:31Buschelwell, that's out of my experience...
21:27:45cpbillsn1s: files -> menu button -> playlists -> create playlist
21:28:07pixelmahi bluebrother, do you know off the top of your head if I can easily name a link differently from the the actual url in LaTeX (like I could do in html, or forum syntax)
21:28:17n1scpbills: and you are in the root in the filebrowser when doing that?
21:28:58cpbillsn1s: yes. this worked when i had mp3s... i can see if adding a single mp3 will add it to the playlist, i just converted everything to ogg to save space
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21:30:36bluebroth3rpixelma: check the \wikilink macro −− somehting like \url[title]{url} iirc.
21:30:53gevaertswpyh: another thing you could try is put the HD back, resize the data partition so that everything would fit on the CF, and then just dd the evrything
21:31:17cpbillsn1s: does not seem to recursively add mp3s or ogg... i'm using version r17654-080529
21:31:26bluebroth3rah, it was \href{url}{title}
21:31:27wpyhgevaerts: that could work, but I'd rather not have to put the hdd back in
21:31:32*bluebroth3r curses router
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21:31:43n1scpbills: have you enabled the "recursively insert dirs" option?
21:31:50gevaertswpyh: how did you restore the OF ?
21:32:07n1sbtw playlist creation works as expected for both mp3 and ogg for me...
21:32:08*wpyh thanks the one who suggested sfdisk
21:32:19wpyhwell, I did cat Firmware* > /dev/sdb1
21:32:34pixelmabluebrother: ah yes, thanks
21:32:43cpbillsn1s: i just found a new(?) option for playlists to enable recursive... i don't believe that was there in the previous version i had...
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21:32:59n1scpbills: that option is _really_old
21:33:01ganjamani am looking for a device wich i can connect an externam harddisc
21:33:07ganjamanusb harddisc
21:33:26n1salso enabled by default so you must have disabled it at some point or have a really old cfg
21:33:34cpbillsn1s: hmm... then upgrading rockbox must reset options... (unzipping and overwriting)
21:33:51gevaertswpyh: The firmware from ? You didn't forget to unzip by any chance ?
21:33:51n1sno it doesn't and as i said it is on by default
21:34:20cpbillsvery weird... oh well, problem solved, thank you
21:34:21wpyhgevaerts: yes, and I didn't forget to unzip
21:34:34gevaertshm, that's not it then
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21:34:47*gevaerts forgot the first time he followed those steps
21:36:16wpyhum, how do you use mformat?
21:36:29wpyhI mean, how do you know which drive the ipod's supposed to be?
21:36:51wpyhwithout editing the config file, of course...
21:36:53n1swpyh: you need to edit some config file for mtools to work as expected
21:37:14n1ss/as expected/at all/
21:39:56gevaertsIpodManualRestore says that it will flash on first boot, so maybe it was flashing after all earlier
21:40:13*scorche|sh nods
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21:41:30gevaertsThat means that it did find the new firmware, so probably the firmware partition is/was fine
21:41:41wpyhThere's one thing I want to know: if the screen "Connect to your computer. Use iTunes to restore" appears, does it mean it has read the firmware partition?
21:42:10wpyhgevaerts: maybe. But I didn't see anything in dmesg when it was "flashing"
21:42:30gevaertswpyh: the firmware handles the flashing, not the host
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21:42:53wpyhUm... I don't quite understand the "flashing" then
21:42:58wpyhwhat does it flash?
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21:43:22gevaertsI guess the boot rom, but I'm not sure
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21:44:40n1syeah, bootloader, disk mode, hardware test mode etc are in flash
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21:44:48wpyhoh, ok
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21:45:46wpyhby the way, I have made a backup of the *whole* disk before doingthis
21:45:59wpyhso there's a 65 MB bzip2 image sitting on my disk right now
21:46:19wpyhwonder if it's a good idea to get the first 200M or so and jam it into the ipod
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21:47:56gevaertsYou could do it that way (I'd take a bit more, say 300M, to make sure). Don't forget to resize the data partition with *fdisk afterwards, and to re-run mformat on it
21:48:33wpyhgevaerts: the fw partition was like 130 MB so it should be fine I think. But I couldn't run mformat
21:48:57wpyhI've created /etc/mtools.conf as shown on
21:49:01gevaertsWithout mformat you won't get far. What's wrong with it ?
21:49:23 Nick ompaulafk is now known as ompaul (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul)
21:49:24wpyhAnd I've invoked mformat with the exact same command as on that page, but it just gives me the syntax help
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21:51:06gevaertsThe '-t' is probably incorrect for different disks. Maybe try "mformat -S 2048 -M 2048 -F drive_letter:" as on the IpodManualRestore page
21:52:34wpyhnope, still the same result: syntax help
21:52:56gevaertsThen the config file is probably wrong
21:54:29wpyhthe config file is simple: drive a: file="/dev/sdb2"
21:54:53wpyhIf I run mformat like "./mformat a:", then it will say "./mformat: Hidden (12016) does not match sectors (62)"
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21:58:14gevaertsTry adding '-H 0'
21:58:17*gevaerts guesses
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22:00:13wpyhgevaerts: nope, still the same result
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22:04:34gevaertswpyh: ok. I misread the mformat source a bit. What happens if you use the IpodConversionToFAT32 syntax, but with a smaller -t ? (you should calculate the correct -t parameter based on e.g. dmesg output, but maybe start out with just guessing, say 250)
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22:06:18wpyhI tried this and it could format the partition: ./mformat -H 12016 -s 2048 -M 2048 a:
22:06:22wpyhbut the ipod still doesn't boot
22:07:29gevaertsI'd still try the other way. I'm not really sure what -H does
22:08:14gevaertsMaybe you can just leave out the -t. Maybe it can work the correct value out itself
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22:09:42wpyhnope, it couldn't work out the value
22:09:59gevaertsOK. then guess (it should be near 250 somwehere)
22:10:04wpyhBy the way, if the iPod flashes the firmware, does it mean that the firmware partition has been correctly initialized?
22:10:13gevaertsI would expect so, yes
22:10:23 Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!")
22:11:10wpyhgevaerts: so it should work if I use ipodpatcher, right?
22:12:43gevaertsAt least ipodpatcher should be happy to run on it. After that I would expect the rockbox bootloader to manage booting _if_ the filesystem on the data partition is OK\
22:14:36wpyhuh, doesn't work
22:14:53wpyhit still goes back to the "restore with itunes" screen
22:16:22gevaertsCan you put the output of sfdisk -l -sU /dev/sdb on a pastebin somewhere ?
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22:17:23gevaertsOr actually sfdisk -l -uS /dev/sdb
22:18:34cpbillsgo slackware, go!
22:19:44*gevaerts is confused by that.
22:19:55gevaertsDoes the dmesg output show 2048-byte sectors ?
22:21:06wpyhyes, the dmesg output show 2048-byte sectors:
22:21:52gevaertsWhat does /proc/partitions say about it ?
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22:24:38gevaertsCan you try mformat with -t 239 ?
22:25:21wpyhnope, still the same error: ./mformat: Hidden (257040) does not match sectors (2048)
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22:25:41wpyhBy the way I tried all values for -t from 200 to 300, all with the (exact) same error message
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22:28:40zfishhi everyone hey please what "target id" has got the iPod nano? I need it for the genlang script...
22:29:22Bagderzfish: see english.lang
22:29:30Bagderthe top of it has a list
22:29:58zfishah ok i am an idiot
22:30:03gevaertswpyh: Maybe try "fdisk -H 255 -S 63 /dev/sdb" and then 'o', to create a new partition table with the right geometry, and then create the partitions by hand
22:30:43wpyhgevaerts: I don't know how to calculate geometries properly
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22:30:49wpyhcan't we just use LBA?
22:31:03gevaertswpyh: the -H 255 -S 63 should be all you need
22:31:18wpyhshould I use -b 2048 too?
22:32:00gevaertsMaybe to make sure, although I would expect fdisk to get that from the kernel
22:32:31n1szfish: if you mean the number for the -i parameter it's 14, this can be found in configure
22:32:50gevaertswpyh: Make sure to align everything on cylinder boundaries.
22:33:14wpyhgevaerts: uh, yeah, it doesn't align (the second partition)
22:33:33gevaertsThe end ?
22:33:44wpyhthe end was 15662303 and it didn't align
22:33:57gevaertsThe end probably doesn't matter too much
22:34:01n1szfish: btw what are you doing? the genlang script isn't very nice for generating .lng files manually...
22:34:54 Quit zfish (" ajax IRC Client")
22:35:57wpyhok, let's try
22:36:32gevaertsMaybe first do the mformat. That seems to be the most fiddly bit
22:36:35wpyhwell, fdisk is broken and now I get this in dmesg:
22:37:30gevaertsSo it either didn't write the new table, or it didn't resync
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22:38:16wpyhI used fdisk to read the partition table on the disk, and got the same table as I've configure
22:38:29wpyhthen I did a hdparm -z /dev/sdb and dmesg shows more such errors
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22:39:22gevaertswhat errors ?
22:40:14gevaertswpyh: I think you linked to the wrong pastebin page last time...
22:40:39wpyhoh, sorry, here it is :
22:41:07wpyhthese are the new errors:
22:42:34gevaertsWhat does /proc/partitions contain now ?
22:43:10*gevaerts wants to find out if it's just the end that's broken, or the entire table
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22:46:55gevaertsOK. looks like just the end. Re-run fdisk and delete the second partition. Then recreate it with an explicit end cylinder (maybe one smaller than it suggests ?)
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22:51:34wpyhwhen I ran mformat it still complained about the hidden sectors
22:52:26gevaertsI'm out of ideas then. If you can find a windows PC with itunes, try using that
22:52:35wpyhuh, yeah
22:52:38wpyhthanks for the help :)
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22:53:08wpyhipod _does_ recognize the new fw and tries to flash itself
22:53:14wpyhwhich I gladly comply with
22:53:31wpyhbut after that it goes back to the "restore with itunes" display
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22:54:53saratogaBuschel: (for the logs) when you're around I'd like to talk to you about MP3 optimizations
22:55:28wpyhgevaerts: does it mean the fw partition is OK now?
22:56:18gevaertswpyh: probably, but I don't know. Does it actually matter if it doesn't work ?
22:56:33wpyhyou mean the OF?
22:56:44wpyhI think if the OF doesn't work, how do we know the CF card is compatible...
22:57:28gevaertsI mean if it can't find a data partition, who cares if the firmware is ok ?
22:57:41 Quit ompaul ("night")
22:57:57wpyhwell, if the firmware is OK, then that means the iPod accesses the card as 2048-byte sectors internally
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22:58:23wpyhI was thinking, like, the ipod exports the card as having 2048 byte sectors but later accesses it as 512 byte sectors
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23:38:00allelehowdy doodaly
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