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#rockbox log for 2008-06-13

00:02:03 Join CyBergRind|w [0] (n=cbr@
00:02:45 Part d1sturb
00:12:53 Join mib_hb7u90dq [0] (i=d8ef4345@gateway/web/ajax/
00:14:48mib_hb7u90dqlinuxstb: thanks for pointing out that mistake, i caught it myself shortly after posting. as for the backlight pin, i just starting poking around for it... i figure the best way is to go bit-by-bit through the GPIO_Data inits and see which one leaves the display off?
00:14:54 Nick mib_hb7u90dq is now known as MarcGuay (i=d8ef4345@gateway/web/ajax/
00:15:22 Quit soap (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:16:42 Quit dabujo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:17:30MarcGuaylinuxstb: would it be of any use to your, or anyone else, to see what the LCD currently displays?
00:18:18 Quit [CBR]Unspoken|w (Connection timed out)
00:28:44 Join rockyprobe [0] (n=446e50bb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:30:15rockyprobei'm having a very strange problem with my rockbox bulid, anyone interested in giving their input?
00:30:19 Quit bertrik ("bye")
00:32:22rockyprobei'll just describe the problem i guess
00:32:36rockyprobei've looked in the FAQ and the manual and it's a very strange problem
00:33:00rockyprobeis anyone familiar with the build for the 80 gb ipod video?
00:35:33rockyprobeis it super dry here ?
00:35:58gevaertsDifferent people are familiar with various bits. Just tell us what exactly happens, and if someone knows they will answer
00:36:10rockyprobeoh alright then
00:36:36rockyprobei put the 80 gig build on my video ipod
00:36:50courtclinuxstb: looks like it's an incorrect write size. Possibly broken lcd init.
00:37:12rockyprobeand it worked fine for a while, but now when i plug it into the jack for the comp and the screen only lights up for a second
00:37:28rockyprobeit shows the apple icon, it might light for a second, then it dies, and tries again
00:37:45rockyprobeas if the battery is extremely low, and after doing this about 10 times it'll say battery is too low, please wait
00:38:08rockyprobeand it'll charge a bit and try to start again, and have the same result of dying and trying to start up again
00:38:28rockyprobewhen i hook it up to my car jack it works
00:38:59gevaertsMaybe a bad cable ?
00:39:01rockyprobeit's not a headphone jack, it's the actual plug for my ipod, and it's the type that uses an fm transmitter so i can listen to my stuff in the car
00:39:11rockyprobei tried a different cable :/ same result
00:39:30rockyprobeit's only on the computer, when i hook it up to the car, it charges and everything, and battery is at full
00:39:47rockyprobeand i can disconnect the cable and run in the house and hook it up to the computer
00:39:56rockyprobebut as soon as i do that it dies, it's some strange bug
00:40:11rockyprobeand i can no longer turn it on when it's not plugged into anything
00:40:28gevaertsDoes it have a reasonable battery time after you charge it in the car ?
00:40:31rockyprobeit use to try and start up, like show the apple icon for a sec
00:40:46rockyprobeyeah it's at full bar, and i disconnect it and it goes down about a pixel
00:40:50rockyprobebut it stays on and it's fine
00:41:32rockyprobeuntil i plug it in to my comp
00:41:39courtclinuxstb: "I've just committed some missing init code for iPod Photo"... I would bet on that being the issue, make sure the init code works properly with the bootloader setup.
00:42:16rockyprobeyou mean my bootloader for rockbox?
00:43:10rockyprobei can't find anything on this in the man pages
00:43:30rockyprobei went into debug and cleared some stuff to see if it would help, but to no avail
00:43:34courtcrockyprobe: sorry, I'm replying to linuxstb from a long time ago.
00:43:43rockyprobeoh alright, my bad
00:43:56gevaertsI can't really help more, as I don't know much about the ipod hardware.
00:44:04rockyprobeargh, alright
00:44:11rockyprobehopefully someone else will see it
00:44:19gevaertsMaybe wait a bit to see if someone else picks it up, or ask on the forums
00:44:24courtclinuxstb: Perhaps try iPodLinux, just to see if it's a firmware issue?
00:44:32rockyprobeis there a way to uninstall rockbox or disable it without hooking it up to my box?
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00:45:18gevaertsYou should be able to get it into emergency disk mode (see
00:46:13rockyprobeyeah i think it went into that a couple times on startup , and it booted the old apple firmware, i thought it was strange
00:46:24rockyprobethat link takes me to a sorry page
00:47:00gevaertsIt's without the ). Maybe that got picked up too ?
00:47:39gevaertsUninstalling rockbox is described in the rockbox manual (I think just after installing)
00:47:47 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
00:47:57rockyprobewithout plugging it in? really?
00:49:03rockyprobejesus i'm going to time out, horrible lagg on apple sites
00:49:23gevaertsTo uninstall you need to get into disk mode, but the emergency disk mode is pure apple code, no rockbox involved before that, so if that doesn't work you probably have hardware problems
00:51:14gevaertsBut as I said I don't know much about ipod hardware, so I can't say what sort of problem exactly.
00:51:24rockyprobealright i'll go try in the car bbl
00:55:00rockyprobehaha yay
00:55:13 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:55:45rockyprobealright i believe it's connected
00:55:57rockyprobeconnected to the car, i got into disk mode
00:56:14rockyprobeand it stayed on when i plugged it into the computer, so it recognized it and didn't shut off
00:56:17rockyprobethanks a lot
00:57:36rockyprobei should be able to get it now
00:58:04rockyprobethanks a lot though gevaerts :D it's been busted for a while
00:58:06MarcGuaylinuxstb: I just finished going through GPIOB_FUNC bit-by-bit and had the following results: 0x14A3, 0x16A1, 0x16A2 = No display, 0x1683 = backlight on but nothing displayed.
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01:48:57Seldaekhurray, got a F20 for $60
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02:04:40 Join blackvd [0] (
02:06:01blackvdI have a first generation ipod mini(grey) that I'm trying to put rockbox on using the Rockbox Utility. However after directing it to the proper directory and selecting the model it can't find the ipod when trying to load data?
02:06:55blackvdsays no ipods found
02:07:20blackvdeven though i can open the directory where its located
02:07:23krazykit`blackvd, are you running the rockbox utility with root/administrator privelages?
02:07:53blackvddidnt have to when installing on my iriver H300
02:08:28blackvdshould i try that?
02:08:30LloreanThe h300 doesn't need the same kind of access as an iPod does
02:09:01blackvdi really hate messing with anything apple
02:09:05blackvdbut its for a friend
02:11:03blackvdbah! still getting the same error as root
02:11:17Lloreanis the iPod in working condition?
02:11:21pixelmais the Ipod in disk mode?
02:11:21LloreanIt loads the Apple firmware fine?
02:11:41blackvdwell here is the problem ive been having with it
02:11:51blackvdmy roommate got it off a friend
02:12:07blackvdso i reformated it using gparted
02:12:16blackvdbut left the firmware
02:12:29blackvdwass able to connect via gtkpod and upload music
02:12:47blackvdhowever the ipod wont see the music when not connected?
02:12:53blackvdi haven't a clue why
02:13:04blackvdso i was gonna put rockbox on to see if that would work
02:13:46LloreanSo it's not functioning properly in the original firmware?
02:14:03LloreanRockbox's installer expects a "working" iPod. It's possible that something you've done has interfered with the detection.
02:14:21blackvdwell the wierd thing is he updated the firmware using another roommates mac
02:14:41blackvdso when you boot the ipod all the firware is there
02:14:48blackvdbut it doesnt see any files
02:14:50LloreanThe installer won't install on a Mac/HFS+ formatted iPod.
02:14:59LloreanTo convert to a windows iPod you need to do more than just reformat
02:15:01blackvdwhen you plug it into a computer it mounts
02:15:18blackvdand when you run gtkpod you can see the music
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02:16:04LloreanNeither of those particularly matter.
02:16:21LloreanMany things mount fine, and gtkpod just writes an iPod database.
02:16:40blackvdit has three paritions on it
02:16:56 Nick knitt1 is now known as knittl (n=knittl@
02:16:57blackvdthe main one for the music is 3.78 fat32
02:17:21blackvdthen there are two more 1. 31kb 2. 32.mb
02:17:38LloreanAs I said, it's not as simple as reformatting.
02:17:39blackvdunknown file systems to gparted
02:17:43LloreanThere should only be two total partitions.
02:18:01LloreanYou need to follow the conversion instructions in the wiki if you don't have a windows machine to restore on.
02:18:03blackvdwell how do fix such a shotty device
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02:20:07blackvdi would appreciate it if you could point me to the proper wiki">
02:20:46blackvdseems like i should just be able to reformat the whole thing
02:21:22LloreanComplain to Apple about that.
02:21:29blackvdheh right
02:21:55blackvdwell maybe i can run itunes in my vmbox of XP
02:22:09blackvdbut if i recall that didnt work last time i tried
02:22:17LloreanJust follow the manual restore then.
02:22:23LloreanOr rather, the conversion
02:26:55blackvdso do i have to specify the dir? like Ipod_Control?
02:27:03blackvdls /media/disk
02:27:11 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (i=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02:27:17LloreanI've never done it. Just follow the instructions.
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02:54:24saratoga2Buschel: (for the logs) I haven't had time to try any formal testing, but I did try a few thigns in the wma codec
02:55:15saratoga2doing ">>8" to one of my trig tables had no effect on performance, but doing ">>16" had a surprisingly big impact on run time
02:55:45saratoga2this makes no sense at all to me, but its encouraging to see that multiplication can be done considerably faster on PP under certain circumstances
02:55:52saratoga2whatever those may be
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03:01:25blackvdSo i dont get it I formated the now tow partitions I have on this mini as fat32 1.41mb 2.4gb
03:01:48blackvdnow how do i install rockbox?
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03:14:39blackvdBah! Apple is the worst computer company around by far!
03:14:44blackvdthis mini is trash
03:14:57blackvdwhy do people pay so much for crap
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03:22:16Shaidgood marketing
03:24:16blackvdwell im stuck on what to do?
03:24:37JdGordonblackvd: why the heck have you made a 1.4mb fat partition? read the instructions!
03:24:51blackvdi didnt
03:25:00blackvdi made a 41mb partition
03:25:05blackvdwhich i didnt pick
03:25:11blackvdit made it for me
03:25:12JdGordon[11:01:53] <blackvd> So i dont get it I formated the now tow partitions I have on this mini as fat32 1.41mb 2.4gb
03:25:30LloreanYou also shouldn't have formatted both partitions.
03:25:37blackvdwell i redid it
03:25:38JdGordonanyway, the OF partition shouldnt be FAT
03:25:49blackvdso now i have the big partition as fat32
03:26:00blackvdthe small one is unallocated
03:26:16saratoga2honestly if you're having this much trouble doing it the linux way, you should just find a pc with itunes and use the apple software
03:26:58blackvdi tried running itunes on it under xp in vmbox but the stupid thing isnt detected for some reason
03:27:05blackvdi dont have that option
03:27:42blackvdthe directions dont tell you what to do with the other partition
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03:31:10LloreanBecause you're not supposed to do anything to it.
03:31:44 Quit webguest63 (Client Quit)
03:32:04LloreanBut you do need to be starting with a working Mac formatted iPod. Because you decided to experiment and assume it'd left out steps, rather than saying "It doesn't tell me to do anything, so I don't do anything" you may need to restore the iPod now.
03:32:15LloreanThere's a wiki page entitled IpodManualRestore that will help you with this, I think
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03:43:04wpyhLlorean: there were some discussions about IpodManualRestore and IpodConversionToFAT32 a few hours ago
03:43:19wpyhBut it was interrupted by Germany vs Croatia, and then no more discussion
03:43:28wpyhDo you have any thoughts on that?
03:45:53blackvdalright good deal im giving up for now. Thanks for all the help though I appreciate it.
03:47:21wpyhblackdvd: you're having problems with an ipod mini?
03:47:47Lloreanwpyh: I don't think knowledge duplication is necessarily bad. The Conversion page should, in my opinion, basically duplicate what would be the second half of the Restore page anyway. But one could drop the idea of "Conversion" entirely, and just tell everyone "HFS+ iPods must be restored to FAT32 by way of iTunes or a manual restore" anyway, and be at least as effective.
03:51:27wpyhI think I like the second idea better, to drop the idea of a "manual conversion"
03:51:38wpyhBut what would we say on the page? :P
03:51:59wpyhI think we need to wait for other devs to wake up and discuss this
03:52:14saratoga2wow looping over a "NOP" takes 5 clock cycles of overhead on PP5024
03:52:31saratoga2i guess 1 for add, 1 for compare, and 3 for a branch
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03:52:48wpyhby the way, I *think* we can use newfs_msdos to create a filesystem with 2048-byte sectors
03:52:48Lloreanwpyh: I think the page works well enough as it is, and in the future we hope to have tools capable of converting an iPod and/or restoring it to "Rockbox usable" status, even if the OF doesn't work.
03:54:03wpyhLlorean: without a decision I will take the status quo and edit those pages separately
03:54:44wpyhI see it here:
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03:55:26wpyh"newfs_msdos -S 2048 -F 32 <device>" should be able to format a 2048-byte sector iPod
03:55:42wpyhanyone here with OSX or BSD that can test this?
03:55:53wpyhI'm thinking of adding it to the Conversion page
03:56:03saratoga2and a SMULL takes 6 clocks, while a MUL takes 5
03:56:23wpyhLlorean: by the way, the Conversion page is "for Max OSX users", and I think we need to have some pointer there for Linux users
03:56:31wpyhLet's see what I can do
03:57:04LloreanI seem to recall newfs_msdos failing with -S 2048. Or not necessarily failing, but the result wasn't usable. I may be wrong though
03:57:56wpyhis it connected to the report that "mkfs.vfat -S 2048 generates a filesystem that the OF can't write to"?
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03:58:14wpyhI think they are quite similar, but since I don't have OSX right now I can't confirm
03:58:32wpyhand besides mkfs.vfat -S 2048 works well in my case
03:58:32LloreanI dunno.
03:58:49wpyhwell, then maybe I'll add that to the page as an *alternative*
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04:15:15blackvdwpyh: if you're still around yes I am
04:15:42saratoga2Buschel: (for the logs) I've measured the run time of various ops, and they are as follows
04:15:48wpyhblackdvd: I don't have ipod mini around here
04:16:04wpyhbut let's see your problems
04:16:13wpyhyou're using the original harddisk, right?
04:16:43saratoga2mul (32): 5 clocks, mul (24) 4 mul (16): 3 clocks mull(32): 5 clocks
04:16:59saratoga2i'll double check that the same pattern holds for the mull ops now
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04:20:38blackvdwpyh: My friend got an ipod mini 1st gen from a friend and needed it reformated so I used gpartet to reformt it. Now I just followed the direction as best as i could here:"> Now I have two partitions on it 1. unallocated at 41mb 2. fat32 for the rest of the space(4gb total)
04:20:48wpyhok, so it's a first gen
04:21:15saratoga2buschel: yes it works for smull too (smull 16 takes 4 clocks as expected)
04:21:16wpyhwhy do you use gparted?
04:21:30wpyhI think you can use the partition table on that page (have you tried that?)
04:21:54blackvdi used the partition .bin file when i followed those directions
04:22:02blackvdso it created the current lay out for me
04:22:03saratoga2so basically the "long" muls take 1 clock extra, and by cutting each 8 bits from the second op, you save 1 more clock over the base
04:22:12blackvdexcept i did the fat32 part
04:22:22wpyhoh, so the partitioning was by gparted?
04:22:31blackvdthe original
04:22:38blackvdbut i used the wiki the second time
04:22:43wpyhI mean, the partitioning was by the mbr from the page, then the formatting by gparted?
04:22:56LloreanBut he applied the partition to a non-working iPod.
04:23:00LloreanHe needs to do a full manual restore.
04:23:01wpyhcan you please try to get the mbr now?
04:23:04saratoga2i suppose teh odd results I've seen with this trick are due to gcc nonsense
04:23:21wpyhLlorean: I have no problems with a manual restore here... let's see
04:23:40blackvdi still have the mbr bin file
04:23:43Lloreanwpyh: He hasn't done a manual restore yet, at least so far as what he's said.
04:23:50wpyhblackvd: please follow the steps here">
04:24:14wpyhLlorean: ok, let's see if the ManualRestore page helps
04:24:17 Quit saratoga2 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
04:24:29Lloreanwpyh: I already directed him to it, if you'd read the logs...
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04:24:36blackvdok cool i followed the first two steps on that
04:24:38LloreanHe decided he'll give up and try later, ro so he said.
04:24:40blackvdill do the rest now
04:25:03blackvdhey im right here you know
04:25:23wpyhcool down everyone
04:25:23LloreanDid I say something offensive?
04:25:38wpyhLlorean: I thought you directed him to the Conversion page...
04:25:41blackvdyou keep talking about me like im not here
04:25:51wpyhIRC is free-talk
04:25:56wpyhcool down please
04:26:00Lloreanblackvd: No, I'm talking about you like you are here. I'm perfectly aware you can read what I"m saying.
04:26:01wpyhdon't break that ipod in your hand ;)
04:26:15wpyhcan we get on with the next step?
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04:26:31blackvdim gonna run throught his walk thru
04:26:39Lloreanwpyh: I clearly said to follow the manual restore then. You can see it in the logs.
04:26:49wpyhblackvd: please post the output of 'fdisk -l /dev/XXX' to a pastebin and paste the link
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04:27:48wpyhLlorean: sorry, I missed that line earlier :p
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04:53:52blackvdawesome! got it working with that walk thru. thanks wpyh!
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04:55:42wpyhblackvd: good to know that
04:55:52wpyhnow you can proceed to install rockbox on that device
04:57:19 Part Llorean
04:58:11blackvdinstalling now :)
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05:48:07Scotty197879hi all. installed rockbox on my iPod Photo and love it. One question: can I use my iTrip with Rockbox????
05:49:04 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
05:51:20Scotty197879cheers. exactly what i was looking for!
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06:02:03toffe82jhMikeS: I found a board , I will send it saturday
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06:27:15krope32hey does anyone know where i can get an already complied version of the plugin found here:">
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06:50:34Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
06:52:18Topic"Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | - Edit Edit Edit | Only a couple more weeks till DevConEast!" by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
06:52:21Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
06:52:38wpyhscorche: I'd say it's DevConCentral
06:52:53wpyhbecause I'm east of most the people here
06:53:09wpyhno developers that I know live here though..
06:53:14Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
06:53:22Topic"Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | - Edit Edit Edit | Only a couple more weeks till DevConEuro!" by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
06:53:25Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
06:53:38wpyhah, that's more accurate
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08:00:42Buschelsaratoga: (for the logs) your results show the results which are expected for an ARM7. all the weird effects on runtime must really be connect to gcc...
08:03:36Buschelsaratoga: so, if we keep smull in synth.c but a) pre-scale D by >>12 b) correct this scaling before writing to output buffer we should have a gain in performance. the filter coefficients will mostly be =0 for the upper 2 bytes in this case.
08:09:25Buschelsaratoga: this could be done without changing the code too much. synth uses 32*16*36*44100/1152 * 2 channels = 1.4 million smull/mlal per second of file runtime
08:10:08Buschelsaratoga: saving two cycles per smull/mlal may save up to 2.9MHz then (if i didn't make any error in my calculation)
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08:10:59Buschelsaratoga: when changing the synth-asm to sso we might save an additional cycle -> gain = up to 4.2MHz
08:11:23Buschelsaratoga: about +10% in performance
08:13:38Buschelsaratoga: there are 64 mlal / 8 smull in synthfull.S and 60 mlal / 4 smull in synth.c which must be exchanged then
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08:18:30Buschelsaratoga: btw, you get the same results when multiplying with signed values and pre-shifting them by >>8, >>16, ...?
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08:22:10amiconnBuschel: Afaik early termination only applies to one of the multiplication operands. Dunno which one though
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08:23:08Buschelamiconn: preglow told us it is the right operand. saratogas tests based on this and showed the effect
08:23:32Buschelamiconn: it works for both mul/mla and smull/mlal
08:23:58Buschelamiconn: could already take a look at the pcf patch?
08:25:02Buschelamiconn: if you've have no further comments on it i would like to submit it soon
08:25:57amiconnNot yet
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08:32:01Buschelgotta go to work now
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09:27:04dionoeagevaerts2: yes.
09:27:25dionoea(now you have to find the question you asked to know what that means :p)
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09:28:57dionoeagevaerts2: I edited my tracker comment to make that clear.
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11:26:02preglowlinuxstb: you know if someone has extracted a telechips boot rom yet?
11:26:59linuxstbpreglow: No
11:32:00preglowmight be an interesting read
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11:38:53preglowah, an xml parser :-(
11:39:09preglowsuddenly, rockbox doesn't feel so bloated
11:39:10preglowd2 firmware
11:40:47linuxstbWhat's the status of your SD driver?
11:42:15preglowhaven't worked much on it the last week, but status is still i've got to figure out why powering up fails
11:42:20preglowwhich is why i'm disassembling
11:43:03preglowlooks like the flash player takes up a rather sizable part of the firmware
11:43:11linuxstbI can imagine
11:44:32preglowlooking for the of interrupt handler right now
11:44:55preglowi'm hoping they've got the d2 detect pin hooked up to one
11:45:04preglowwhich is possible, but they might also not do it
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11:55:53preglowhow would ascii be encoded in utf-16?
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11:56:34Nico_Pwouldn't it remain unchanged ?
11:56:59preglowwell, each character would be two bytes, so no
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12:08:22k4ydoesn't ASCII just map into the first 127 bytes? e.g. 007A would be 'z'
12:08:41k4y127 numbers/values
12:10:43B4gderthat's what wikipedia says
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12:12:56preglowi see a lot of strings with that are ascii separated by zeros
12:12:58preglowso i guess that's it
12:13:02k4yalthough, you'd probably want to use one of the encoding schemes with a BOM
12:13:15k4yto avoid getting injured by differing endiannesses
12:14:08*B4gder guesses preglow's chunk of utf16 would be little endian ;-)
12:14:30k4yyeah, i didn't realise he was trying to parse some
12:14:57B4gderpreglow: "strings -el" ;-)
12:15:13k4yyou could run chardet over the data, to try and guess the encoding
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14:07:02wpyhwe had a discussion over at #rockbox-community and we know that
14:07:13wpyh1. the ipod video 5.5g 30GB has 512-byte sectors physically
14:07:27wpyh2. its usb storage is exported as 2048 byte sectors
14:07:50wpyhso, looking at this I think apple had to export the usb as 2048-byte sectors because of the 80GB drive in the other model
14:08:00wpyhbecause that drive has 1024-byte sectors
14:08:13linuxstbApple also did it on other devices - at least the 2nd gen Nano.
14:08:31wpyhright, maybe we can follow this approach
14:09:31wpyhremove the use of caching for multiple sector reads, and make the sector size some kind of #define or constant that gets determined at compile time
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14:10:55linuxstbThe same version of Rockbox runs on both the 5g and 5.5g
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14:12:22wpyhlinuxstb: ah... that's a problem −− back to drawing board
14:13:17linuxstbBut in theory I think we could split them if there was a big advantage in doing so.
14:13:26linuxstbI've no opinion on that though...
14:13:42linuxstbAll I know is that the installation tools can distinguish between them.
14:14:13wpyhthinking about it, maybe there's not such a big advantage
14:14:27wpyhother than performance
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14:47:23wpyhI'm reading drivers/ata.c and this question may be stupid, but... why do we do 5 nop's when we want to wait 400ns? I thought the speed of each processor is different
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15:48:04rockboxim searching the rockbox installer
15:48:09rockboxi cant find it
15:48:28rockboxcan you help me?
15:48:37LambdaCalculus37For what player?
15:48:44rockboxipod nana
15:48:59LambdaCalculus37Is it a newer iPod nano?
15:49:06rockboxno, 1st gen
15:49:13rockboxi know there is an installer
15:49:27rockboxi had one, but i formatted my harddisk
15:49:45*pixelma recommends the fine manual (with link to an installer)
15:49:46rockboxnow i want the installer again, but cant find it^^
15:49:56LambdaCalculus37It's here">
15:50:07LambdaCalculus37And here's the manual:">
15:50:33rockboxyes, there i found it last time^^
15:50:38rockboxthank you very much
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15:51:58*LambdaCalculus37 thinks it very strange that our own project can't find any part of itself ;)
15:52:42wpyhshould this go to the golden quotes?
15:52:52wpyh"rockbox: im searching the rockbox installer"
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17:19:13kugelSo,what do do you expect from participants of the devon (euro)?
17:19:36kugelI could hardly be there, but at least some hours each day
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17:20:47LambdaCalculus37Some Rockbox hacking?
17:21:59scorche|shwe will likely be doing some hackery, so a laptop might be prudent to do your own stuff...also some conversations/discussions may take place that might need to be private, so...
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17:46:14kugeli can bring beer with me
17:46:28kugelI don't have a leptop though
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18:01:40kugelscorche|sh: What do you mean with maturity? I'm not a native english, and I find several transaltions. if you mean "not a child mentally-wise", then I think I'm ok
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18:03:25kugelmental*...whatever ;)
18:04:08*kugel sees that is sometimes not very helpful
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18:04:54scorche|shkugel: tis a joke ;)
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18:08:17*kugel tries to grad a laptop for <200€, last chance for one before the devcon he supposes
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18:20:59KevinCliftHi, Kevin here. Not sure if there is anyone in particular that I should be addressing, but I was hoping to submit a theme, and the instructions stated that I needed to request wiki write permissions here.
18:21:35LambdaCalculus37Did you register on the wiki?
18:21:38 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:21:59LambdaCalculus37What's your wiki name?
18:22:28LambdaCalculus37Okay. Give me a minute and I'll get you set up.
18:22:39KevinCliftMutch appreciated
18:23:23LambdaCalculus37And... done!
18:23:28LambdaCalculus37Welcome to Rockbox!
18:23:33KevinCliftThank you
18:23:35LambdaCalculus37No spamming, now!
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18:24:47LambdaCalculus37Just curious, what device is the theme for?
18:25:03KevinCliftipod video (5G)
18:25:12LambdaCalculus37I look forward to seeing it, then. :)
18:25:43KevinCliftglass-n-shadows - will work on getting it up when I have some free time today
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19:24:00PaulPositionI've got a question which I can't find an answer for... What's the difference between between the bass/treble settings and the EQ? I seem to recall people saying bass/treble didn't work on PP devices (it would only raise general volume or some such)..(??) I tried outputing to audacity and analyze but, frankly, I can't wrap my mind around concepts I don't really understand.
19:24:43Theo_does anyone have a good tutorial for making themes?
19:25:41PaulPositionNot really full blown tutorials, but"> (technicals) and (mini tutorial) should help
19:25:46 Join Buschel [0] (
19:26:05krazykityou can also look at WPSes that others have made for examples
19:26:07domonokyPaulPosition: the EQ is purly software, the bass/treble options are implemented in the audio hardware.. as far as i know
19:26:31 Join Llorean [0] (
19:27:37PaulPositiondomonoky - Okay.. That almost fit with what I (thought I) understood.. But is there hardware eq in sansa's or H10s or is the option there for lack of someone removing it? (I guess you don't know more than I do but heck...)
19:28:24*domonoky doesnt know.. :-)
19:31:28LloreanThere's a Hardware EQ option in standard Rockbox builds for those players?
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19:36:11LloreanPaulPosition: Bass/Treble aren't always hardware, but where available they are. But for people not familiar with a parametric equalizer they work well, and on most players there's a hardware solution for them, so they're much less taxing than even basic EQ.
19:36:34LloreanIn the case of the iPod 5G, what we thought were supposed to be bass/treble turned out not to be, meanwhile the hardware EQ turned out to really only be suited for use as bass/treble
19:37:23pixelmaif I remember correctly they are also easier on the CPU than a eq band an targets with software bass/treble
19:38:08PaulPositionLlorean - thanks, I guess that helps although I'm unsure :p
19:38:09pixelmaregardless of grammar mistakes...
19:38:13amiconnYes. preglow stated that sw treble and bass together need about the same amount of CPU power as a single eq band
19:39:03PaulPositionSo I probably just mixed different info up into a craptastic understanding of the situation..
19:39:17LloreanPaulPosition: Basically Bass/Treble use less battery, and are easier for some people to understand, and often all many need, and they'll work either by using the hardware if available, or using a software alternative if the hardware doesn't work. So it really doesn't matter if there's a hardware EQ.
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19:40:22PaulPositionOkay. Makes sense, I wish I understood enough about sound to have tested this myself through outputing into audacity and analyzing..
19:41:03amiconnJust use a frequency sweep .wav generated at constant level, play that, sample externally and look at the volume changes
19:41:13LloreanWell the important thing is the battery savings. Bass/Treble may sound slightly different on different players, as often it does come from the hardware.
19:41:38amiconnThat's how I analyzed the G5's hardware "eq" btw (and found that only the highest and lowest band actually work)
19:42:29amiconn(well actually I used fft analysis on the sampled .wav, also in audacity)
19:43:44PaulPositionWow, didn't think about using some pregenerated tone instead of some random music, but that makes much more sense.. (And now I stop before getting too much off topic)
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20:15:08*jhMikeS wonders how to setup a system when the hardware supports a number of features also present in SW dsp (wm8978 has eq and stereo width but only expansion)
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20:16:32LloreanjhMikeS: You'd also have to handle cases where we offer more options than the hardware.
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20:22:17jhMikeSLlorean: I'm thinking it ought to just have a submenu with the hardware's settings or menu items clearly marked with "hardware" in the string. I'm not sure the HW vs. SW options should be left out. Why shouldn't SW tone controls be available even if HW ones are available?
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20:23:23LloreanI think "simplicity" is a good reason. People get confused if you have two of the same option, and "Hardware" vs "Software" doesn't mean a lot to many users.
20:24:34LloreanYou could have two menus, "Rockbox Sound Settings" and "Internal Sound Settings" or something, and separate them entirely but it'd still confuse people why you have two Bass/Treble settings, and which one is better to use, etc.
20:24:44jhMikeSSo you're saying the HW eq on the beast shouldn't be used or that it should be used in lieu of the SW one?
20:25:00LloreanI don't know. I don't see it as a very easy thing to say.
20:25:24LloreanI mean, I'd prefer to have the maximum possible flexibility personally.
20:25:44LloreanMeanwhile, Rockbox is already pretty confusing for users...
20:26:08LloreanI assume the hardware EQ is more limited than ours?
20:26:51jhMikeSI remember it being discussed that part of the point of RB is to open up the hardware. Now that hardware is getting rather full of capabilities we want to scale that back to keep RB simple. That's really going to stunt it.
20:26:59jhMikeSLlorean: not a whole lot more
20:27:28LloreanWell, is there a reason to use both the hardware and software EQ on top of each other?
20:27:51LloreanRight now we have a few different EQs on the EQ settings screen (Graphical, Simple, etc), could we have "Battery Saver" or something as one of those, that only uses values that the hardware EQ can use? Then if normal EQ values line up with the internal one, use the hardware instead. So it's mostly transparent?
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20:31:57jhMikeSLlorean: It has similiar types of settings but much larger granularity.
20:32:47shaft0I'm running an iPod 5.5g video, I just installed Rockbox (newest build) using the Rockbox Utility. Everything displays correctly, and I can transfer files fine, but when I click on them to play them, it stays at 0:00, whether it is paused or playing. I can fast forward, but then it will stay at wherever I stop fast forwarding. Any ideas?
20:32:53LloreanI just think the best possible solution would be to make use of it nearly transparent. Preserve the normal EQ interface as it is, but give users some way to "snap" to Hardware values for people who want the extra battery efficiency.
20:33:18Lloreanshaft0: What format are the files?
20:33:37shaft0mp3 192 and v0
20:33:47jhMikeSI wouldn't even know what to snap "Q" to regarding the bandwith control.
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20:34:44shaft0It's weird. I installed it fine on a 4gig iRiver without issues. Is there many reports of issues like this with the Ipod Video?
20:34:50Lloreanshaft0: Any embedded album art?
20:35:05LambdaCalculus37Or DRM?
20:35:10shaft0hmm... I don't think so, I play in winamp.
20:35:11shaft0no DRM
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20:35:43LloreanjhMikeS: =/. I dunno. I personally would really like to see both available. As I said my real concern isn't about keeping the features simple, but trying to keep the UI from being too confusing. I think it's just in the way you present it, though I'd favour "add 'em as separate features" over "drop one" any day for that.
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20:39:33chris0075 Hello, I have a problem. My RockBox on my ipod 60gb doesn't show the titles.
20:40:14jhMikeSThe key must be the phrasing so that it's clear and the preferred setup can be discovered even if the user wants to run one over the other.
20:40:42chris0075jhMikeS you talking to me?
20:40:49shaft0So, any ideas?
20:41:21jhMikeSchris0075: no, that was to Llorean, sorry. :)
20:41:36chris0075oh ok, thanks
20:41:40Lloreanshaft0: Well, you answered the embedded album art question with "I don't think so." I was assuming you'd be verifying, so waiting on a final answer.
20:41:54Lloreanchris0075: Are your files properly tagged? What tagging format did you use?
20:42:28LloreanjhMikeS: Well, the settings can go in first, and better naming can come later, anyway
20:42:43shaft0llorean: No, there is no embedded album art, sorry.
20:42:45chris0075Lorean, I got rid of the computer I had rockbox installed. So Im using windows vista, and it asked a question, hold on.
20:43:33Lloreanshaft0: What tagging formats are used?
20:44:22chris0075Do you want to scan and fix E:
20:44:39chris0075I disconnected when not susposed to..
20:44:47Lloreanshaft0: Are you 100% certain that the files don't contain tags of other formats as well? This is quite common.
20:45:12shaft0tell you what I'll do. I'll download a WAV from somewhere and try that.
20:45:19shaft0if that fails, I'll let you know.
20:46:10chris0075do I scan and fix?
20:47:25shaft0Ok, I just created a 10 second WAV file in Audacity and transferred it over.
20:47:26shaft0No dice.
20:47:32shaft0Still hangs at 0:00
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20:47:49chris0075Do I reinstall RockBox?
20:48:10shaft0could it be because I used the RB utility and didn't do it manually?
20:48:24Lloreanshaft0: Well, hundreds of 5G users aren't having this problem, and have used the utility. We need to figure out what's different in your case.
20:48:51shaft0that's what I figured.
20:48:56Lloreanchris0075: I don't understand why you're asking about reinstalling Rockbox. The scan thing is just if you think your disk might have been damaged by the eject, and also has nothing to do with Rockbox, just a removable storage thing
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20:49:11shaft0I installed it in XP, transferred the files with vista.
20:49:18shaft0though I dont think that should make a difference.
20:49:30shaft0just the music I transferred with vista, no RB program files.
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20:51:47chris0075Llorean why cant I view/play my music in RockBox?
20:51:56chris0075what did I do wrong?
20:52:11Lloreanchris0075: I thought you said it wasn't displaying the tags...
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20:53:07chris0075no the music doesn't show up on the ipod. The folders do
20:53:20Lloreanchris0075: What file view mode are you in?
20:53:34shaft0when it is supposed to be playing, should it should a > play icon, or a || pause icon?
20:53:38chris0075I am not sure, how do I check?
20:53:54LambdaCalculus37Press and hold MENU until a quick menu appears.
20:53:56Lloreanchris0075: It's a setting, you can get to it in the quickscreen, or in the menus.
20:54:01Lloreanshaft0: Play
20:54:13shaft0yeah, not playing
20:54:22shaft0not playing with files transferred with XP either
20:54:48LambdaCalculus37chris0075: "Show Files" should be set to "All", "Supported", or "Music".
20:55:21chris0075rockbox got deleted! when holding down menu
20:56:09chris0075well thanks I guess hahaha
20:56:25Lloreanchris0075: That makes no sense...
20:56:34chris0075lol I know
20:56:47chris0075now i can sell the ipod hahaha
20:57:06Lloreanshaft0: You're playing the files from the file tree, or from database?
20:57:16LambdaCalculus37Rockbox does *not* get deleted from accessing the quick menu.
20:57:32chris0075it does!
20:57:48domonokychris0075: what makes you believe this ?
20:58:00LambdaCalculus37chris0075: Seriously, stop with the wild stories.
20:58:14chris0075want a picture I got a webcam on my laptop
20:58:55chris0075all the tags are correct now
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20:59:11chris0075I wonder if its a usb hard drive now
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21:00:06chris0075It is and my volume name is still there
21:00:19chris0075.rockbox is there too
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21:00:40scorche|sh...what is your point by telling us this?
21:01:12chris0075I thought it was hard to get rockbox uninstalled it only take a hold of menu to do it
21:01:19*LambdaCalculus37 doesn't think there is any point
21:01:37scorche|shno it doesnt, but since your objective is apparently completed, what is your purpose?
21:01:37LambdaCalculus37Why the hell didn't you say you wanted Rockbox uninstalled?
21:02:19chris0075I didn't want it uninstalled.. but I am happy its working. I can still use it as a mass storage
21:02:24 Join DerDome [0] (
21:02:52chris0075it reconizes it as a mass storage
21:02:56scorche|shsooooo...what if now your purpose?
21:03:36chris0075ill fiqure it all out thanks everyone.
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21:08:19chris0075ok menu and select holding down i get rockbox
21:08:47chris0075holding down menu I get orginal ipod
21:09:03 Join aaroe [0] (
21:09:09chris0075I dont
21:09:49LambdaCalculus37chris0075: What is your point?
21:10:16chris0075is there a way to uninstall rock box? holding down the buttons like I did before
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21:10:34LambdaCalculus37Yes, by reading the manual.">
21:10:53pixelmauninstall or just loading the original firmware?
21:11:22pixelmabut whatever, the manual could tell you more
21:11:23chris0075so confusing..
21:11:34Lloreanchris0075: Uninstalling Rockbox is exactly as hard as installing it.
21:11:44aaroeHi there, I just tried out rockbox for the first time ever today. The main reason for this was that I was told that it made it possible to charge and use my ipod at the same time, though it doesn't seem to work with rockbox either. Is this true, or have I missed something in the settings? :)
21:11:52 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
21:12:10Lloreanaaroe: When in Rockbox, hold down the Menu button while plugging in the cable
21:12:57aaroeLlorean, ahh... nice little detail. Thank you very much :)
21:14:59aaroeOne more question. First of all, I love the fact that rockbox don't really have any limitations when it comes to creating, editing, etc. playlists like the standard ipod firmware. I normally used Winamp to add music and define playlists on my ipod, but what is the easiset way to do it now? How do you guys do it?
21:16:04LloreanI just create 'em in Rockbox. But then I don't need complicated ones.
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21:17:23aaroeLlorean, ye that's the problem. I'm going away for a 10 days festival and would like to bring some massive pre-made playlists along with me. But they seem to be a bit of a hazzle to make in rockbox.
21:17:26jsizzlegreetings :)
21:17:51aaroeI've speculated in just maintaining roughly the same file structure on my ipod as on my computer and then make the playlists there and simply search/replace the the *.m3u file so that it fits with my ipod...
21:18:16shaft0Should I downgrade my iPod Video's firmware from the most current version to an old one to use it with Rockbox?
21:18:22jsizzleis updating the rockbox version on my ipod a difficult thing to do? or is it basically just unzipping into a folder on the ipod? TIA
21:18:34 Join linuxstb__ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
21:18:41krazykitshaft0, no
21:18:52shaft0im just putting normal crap back on it
21:18:55shaft0it doesnt work.
21:18:58*shaft0 shakes head
21:19:19Lloreanaaroe: You can just make the playlists pointing at the file structure *on* the iPod. Rockbox will ignore drive letters.
21:19:37Lloreanjsizzle: The manual covers it, but basically, yes.
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21:19:54aaroeLlorean, ah ok. Well, then that seems like the optimal solution :) Thanks alot for your time and help Llorean.
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21:35:29pixelmawould a native speaker look over the midiplay.tex anytime soon? Trying to figure out if I should bother upping the commit count by fixing a simple typo in a sentence that's probably (hopefully) going to be changed anyways...
21:36:07LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Sure, let me take a look.
21:37:29pixelmathanks :)
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21:39:19LambdaCalculus37pixelma: I'm going to pastebin what to change, okay?
21:39:27LambdaCalculus37I haven't got my laptop to make a diff today.
21:39:51pixelmayes, it's ok
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21:42:36LambdaCalculus37I made a couple of tiny modifications so that it sounds a little clearer.
21:44:50jsizzlehow often should I update my rockbox to the current build? I'm using an ipod grayscale 4g btw so no stable ver is avail
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21:50:24pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: thanks again, will be committed soon
21:55:04LambdaCalculus37No problem. :)
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22:02:07Theo_in a config file i found this: backdrop: /.rockbox/backdrops/cabbiev2.bmp. Could this be done in the wps file like this: %x|a|background.bmp|0|0| ?
22:02:28Theo_what is the difference between the two?
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22:05:45eeminyHi −− I just finished manually reformatting my MacPod 80Gb 5.5G to FAT32, and I noticed a couple areas in the instructions that need updating or could be made clearer. May I please have permission to edit the wiki?
22:05:58eeminyMy brand new wiki registration is as "Emily Kelly"
22:06:10pixelmaTheo_: the backdrop (in the config file) is also used in the menus and would get overridden if you use a wps backdrop. Unless the display you create the wps for has a monochrome display you should use the %X tag (upper case) - the lower case version (%x) only loads a bitmap statically
22:06:10domonokyTheo: the backdrop is what is behind menus, the second one is only in the wps..
22:07:11domonokyeeminy: done, promise not to spam !
22:07:44pixelmaTheo_: to find out more about the difference between %x and %X, I'd recommend the CustomWPS page in the wiki
22:08:33Theo_i was reading that
22:08:55Theo_i just didn't understand the differnce between the .cfg files and the .wps files
22:08:59pixelma"the display has a display"... nice... meant a "target" first of course ;)
22:09:50 Join mf0102_ [0] (n=michi@
22:10:04Theo_aha While Playing Screen now i understand, sorry my fault
22:10:38eeminydomonoky: I promise, cross my heart! Thanks
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22:33:02Theo_why does the dict application say "Failed to open index"?
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22:34:31tapiocapuddinghey how do i register with nickserv
22:34:41tapiocapuddingand what happened to ipodlinux's website?
22:36:23ze1. /msg nickserv help
22:36:27ze2. ask in #ipodlinux
22:36:58ze3. allow up to several hours for responses on irc typically :p
22:37:19FOAD4. profit
22:37:50 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
22:39:10tapiocapuddingcommands are case-sensitive
22:39:17tapiocapuddingand msg tastes good
22:39:22tapiocapuddingbut people are allergic to it
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22:43:23scorche|shthis is a bit offtopic...
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