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#rockbox log for 2008-06-18

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02:29:11wpyhhi, uh.. we had a power outage last night so no network for me and I went to sleep :p
02:29:16wpyhI've read the logs
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02:30:30wpyhsaratoga: thanks for the work you've done, I do have music stored in FLAC, so they should give me more runtime
02:31:29wpyhsaratoga: I'm not an expert in this, however, so... is mp3 slow because of its specification/format or because of libmad (which I think is used in rockbox)?
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02:32:53wpyhBuschel: how did you measure the 5-6mA power consumption of HDD over CF?
02:33:55wpyhBuschel: To measure the DMA power savings, we need to measure it, so I don't know. But you may certainly be right :)
02:34:40wpyhBuschel: And, what do you mean by "RB can switch off the power supply"? Do you mean the HDD or the sleep mode in the OF? If the latter, then no, I didn't sleep while testing, it was a straight run.
02:35:57wpyhBuschel: again, I'm no expert on the codecs, but if our codec is already almost optimum, then the large portion would be DMA and the power registers (you know, like what we did a few weeks ago)
02:36:45wpyhscorche: you wanted to say something? :-\
02:36:56scorche|shwpyh: i was waiting for you to :)
02:37:19wpyhoh :p well, I've got pretty slow fingers here
02:37:29*wpyh goes to study for exams
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02:39:24 Join cool_walking_ [0] (
02:43:14 Quit goffa_ (Remote closed the connection) replied saying they do have the item available (it is 1-4 wks for them to get it, but they can get it). So does someone want to buy and ship one to me and I'll pay you back through Paypal? Pretty please?
02:43:53cool_walking_the item being a 160GB ZIF disk (HS160JB)
02:46:50linuxstbcool_walking_: So they refuse to ship outside the US?
02:47:14cool_walking_d'oh forgot to mention that..
02:50:01linuxstb$165 is a nice price - less than I paid for my 80GB drive...
02:53:54cool_walking_Yep, my 100GB was around that.
02:55:23linuxstbWhat device do you want to put it in?
02:56:19cool_walking_Gigabeat S
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04:32:45wastrelany tricks to getting a sansa e200r mounting under linux so i can install rockbox?
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04:41:57krazykitwastrel, you have to set it to rhapsody mode in the usb settings
04:45:16wastrelsecret hacker tricks
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05:09:21wastrelthanks krazykit that works for mounting the device on regular boot but i am still not mounting in manufacturing mode
05:09:43LloreanThere's no partition to mount in manufacturing mode.
05:09:53LloreanJust follow the directions as written.
05:11:52wastrelLlorean: yeah, the patch program isn't seeing the device
05:12:19linuxstbAre you running it as root?
05:12:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:15:30wastrelnosir, not doing it as root
05:17:25wastrellovely. i think i needed help with every step of the process
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05:54:45wastrelwell thanks for the help i'm going to go read the manual now
05:54:49wastrelrockbox <3
05:55:16wastrelis there an onboard manual ?
05:55:21wastrelthat would be an interesting plugin :]
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05:57:49krazykitwastrel, well, you could get the html and convert it to text ;)
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05:59:17MarcGuayHas anyone ever used a ZIF-to-IDE adapter in an iAudio X5L? Curious what the potential is...
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06:02:57wastrelcan't boot original firmware
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06:08:32woodensoulI'm assuming asking questions about repairing iPods would be frown upon here. Is there a channel better suited for that?
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06:13:41cool_walking_#rockbox-community ? the Hardware forum?
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06:31:40wastrelfixed :]
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08:05:19Buschelwpyh: (for the logs) i meant of "accessory power supply" not "power supply" −− my fault
08:09:27Buschelwpyh: if i assume (from older battery benchs) that a 60GB/80GB 5G playing mp3 may run up to about 17h (with WPS and accessory power supply off) that equals about 580mAh/17h = ~34mA
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08:10:36Buschelwpyh: your results show about 580mAh/21.5h = ~27mA -> the HDD consumes 7mA more current than the CF-modded target
08:10:59Buschelwphy: though there will be of course differences in volume etc...
08:13:05Buschelwpyh: as the HDD power is switched off if not accessed, only the "up-time" of the disk while buffering is consuming these 7mA. if the buffering time can be halfed (as reported from OF), it will half the current consumption as well. from what we know DMA is one of the main candidates which may give far better buffering times.
08:14:16Buschelwpyh: this is because the reading speed depends heavily on the CPU clock. if buffering is occuring while playback (normal situation) only a part of the CPU-clock is available for buffering as the codec still needs to run.
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08:16:21Buschelwpyh: regarding codecs -> you should really try to battery bench your CF-modded 5G with flac. to reach the best case runtime you should apply FS #8668 which lowers the normal clock to 24MHz −− flac only needs <15MHz. it will not even boost @15MHz normal clock, except for buffering.
08:20:30Buschelwpyh: using flac @24MHz should save another 6MHz/3MHz/mA = ~2mA -> runtime up to ~23h. with even lower clock like 15MHz you could reach about 26h of battery runtime. i am very interested if these assumptions will come true :-)
08:21:17*Buschel did talk enough being alone here this morning :)
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08:26:06Buschelpreglow: another thing (about mpc) -> as the full precision decoding on ARM is nearly as fast as the speed optimized (32 bit multiplication) i am planning to change svn to use the full precision for ARM again. i guess you will agree?
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08:26:35LloreanBuschel: Why wasn't full precision enabled for Gigabeats, anyway?
08:27:19BuschelLlorean: because it does not differ between different target but only the CPU-architecture
08:27:49LloreanBut why doesn't it?
08:28:09LloreanOr rather, didn't.
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08:28:49BuschelLlorean: in fact, because i never had this on my mind −− first time now, right as you ask ;-)
08:29:20amiconnBuschel: Btw, arm7 has different instruction timing than arm9 (even the v4t variants), so speedup on one don't necessarily mean speedup on the other
08:29:57Buschelamiconn: then we should check :-) anyone has got a gigabeat to test? :)
08:30:04amiconnNot me
08:30:29LloreanRemind me tomorrow and I'll happily test.
08:30:31amiconnIn general, newer arm versions have faster timing, but sometimes only achieve that wen obeying some extra rules
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08:30:54amiconnE.g. ldr is 3-cycle on arm7, but *can* be single cycle on arm9
08:31:39Buschelwell, the main difference between full precision and speed optimized is the use of 32bit-muls instead of 64bit-muls
08:31:50amiconnIt's only single cycle if you don't use the loaded value in the next instruction (it loads in the background)
08:32:07amiconnThere are likely many more such cases
08:32:23Buschelhmm, that's used a lot in both versions...
08:32:42Buschelbut let's see :)
08:34:01amiconnThen reordering will bring some extra speed on gigabeat (both F and X which are arm9 v4, and the S which is arm11 (?) v6)
08:34:49amiconnIf you can do the reordering without slowdown on arm7, that would be good. Otherwise a split would be necessary for optimum performance
08:35:00BuschelLlorean: you can easily check the difference via 1. measuring svn 2. change apps/codecs/libmusepack/mpc_config.h (simply comment "#define OPTIMIZE_FOR_SPEED" in the "#elif defined(CPU_ARM)"-path) and remeasurement
08:35:25LloreanBuschel: Using the test codec plugin, I assume?
08:35:36amiconnBtw, that's the reason why the arm assembly for the ape filters (libdemac) is for arm7 *only*
08:35:37BuschelLlorean: yep.
08:36:04amiconnOn arm9 the C code is actually faster
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08:38:43LloreanBuschel: Personally I'd like to have the Speed vs Quality option available in all codecs. If I'm using it as part of my home sound system, for example (my h120) I'd rather a build with maximum precision since it's on wall power anyway.
08:39:45amiconnI wouldn't want a (runtime) option for that
08:39:51LloreanNot runtime
08:39:59LloreanI'd be completely happy if it was compile time.
08:40:08amiconnWith lossy format you're accepting qulaity loss anyway
08:40:33amiconn*quality, bah
08:40:50LloreanVery true, but some media isn't available lossless anyway. Independent artists seem to like distributing lossy compressed, but there's no sense intentionally introducing further quality loss if you can spare the CPU time anyway
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08:43:11amiconnImho we should always aim at the best possible quality in our codecs, and only drop precision when it's really necessary (codec not realtime on a certain target)
08:44:10LloreanThese are portable devices. It's quite easy to argue, at the same time, "as long as the precision loss is below a certain threshold we decide in advance, we should always optimize toward a goal of not needing to boost for decoding"
08:44:47amiconnDropping 1 or 2 bits from 32 bit intermediates should be okay though if there is a significant speed gain, and the effect on the final (16 bit!) output is neglectible
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10:27:50MTee_I'm trying to build a sim .. but I keep receiving his error : configure didn't find sdl-config, which indicates that you
10:27:50MTee_don't have SDL (properly) installed. Please correct and re-run configure!
10:28:13|Marco|distro ?
10:28:27B4gderMTee_: is sdl-config in your path?
10:28:27|Marco|windows or some linux distro ?
10:29:05MTee_Marco : ubuntu 7.10
10:29:35|Marco|okay, check if you have the dev packs for sdl
10:29:48MTee_B4gder : I don't know, will check now
10:30:11|Marco|what B4gdermentioned to
10:35:04MTee_great, installed SDL. Works now. Thanks :)
10:35:49|Marco|good :)
10:41:31MTee_another question .. when writing : which arm-elf-gcc , it returns nothing , is this wrong ?
10:41:49B4gderit means it isn't in your path
10:42:35MTee_ok, thanks
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10:58:42MTee_built the sim :) .. thanks for your help
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11:20:09doktoreashello everybody
11:20:26doktoreasI am trying to install rockbox on my ipod 2nd generation
11:20:43doktoreasI have got this error with the bootloader installation on linux
11:20:46B4gderipod nano?
11:20:53doktoreas[INFO] Reading partition table from /dev/sdb1
11:20:54doktoreas[INFO] Sector size is 512 bytes
11:20:54doktoreas[ERR] Partition layout is not an ipod
11:21:00doktoreasB4gder: nope
11:21:14doktoreasI have formatted it with mkfs.vfat
11:22:04doktoreasit is recognized inside kde
11:22:41doktoreasah probably I need to create 2 partition on it?
11:23:26B4gderit needs to be a properly functional ipod layout
11:23:39B4gdercan you run the OF fine?
11:23:55B4gderoriginal firmware
11:25:16doktoreasis there any place where I can find the ipod partition layout?
11:29:18doktoreasB4gder: thankyou very much..worked fine
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11:32:27doktoreasB4gder: sorry, but now I need Apple firmware?
11:34:23gevaertsdoktoreas: have a look at
11:35:33gevaertsdoktoreas: pay special attention to step 5 there. If you forget that (like I did), it won't work
11:39:00doktoreasgevaerts, B4gder now is all fine
11:39:03doktoreasthanks for all
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11:50:19gevaertsdoktoreas: just out of curiosity, how did your ipod get to that state ?
11:51:08doktoreasgevaerts: fdisk clean :)
11:51:28*gevaerts decides against asking "why"
11:51:59doktoreasI thought I could use rockbox without any apple firmware
11:52:21gevaertsYou can, but it's a bit more complicated than that. I don't know the exact procedure though
11:52:32doktoreasthe ipod is a present and I like just OS things
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11:53:29pixelmaI'm not sure about this especially on an old 2nd gen Ipod - they can't be turned off, just suspended and Rockbox doesn't do that yet
11:54:18pixelmaor are we talking about a Mini 2nd generation?
11:54:44doktoreasmini pixelma
11:55:17pixelmaaha, all those 2nd gen something Ipod models...
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12:08:41preglowbuschel: more precision is always good, so yes, certainly
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13:43:53MTee_markun, are you there ?
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13:49:10markunI can try the arabic rendeing problem now
13:51:37markunMTee_: it only works with unifont here
13:52:46MTee_I'll try it
13:53:35MTee_yep it's fine
13:53:36markunWe need to update the UnicodeFonts wiki then..
13:54:35MTee_any pointers why the other fonts aren't working ? I want to try and work on this, but I'll need help :)
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14:05:20markunMTee_: well, you have some arabic glyphs to show the characters as they are encoded, and other glyphs to display the characters after combining
14:05:52markunwe only use the glyphs after combining (of course) and I guess the others only have the first set of glyphs
14:06:24MTee_aha .. I see
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14:07:21MTee_is there a way to include new glyphs in a certain font ?
14:07:37markunyou can draw them yourself, or copy them from another font
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14:07:53markunboth is not trivial
14:08:27markunI started to add arabic to one of the nimbus fonts (hand drawn) but I don't know where I left it
14:09:04MTee_I'll try adding them to helv12R
14:09:35markunyou can probably use the existing glyphs arabic glyphs as a template for making the combined ones
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14:10:42MTee_I see
14:12:04markunI used a different BDF font editor a few weeks ago, but I forgot which one it was
14:13:13MTee_is fontforge good ?
14:15:02markunit doesn't always do what I want, but maybe that's also my fault
14:15:07markunyou can try it
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14:52:00Genre9mp3hmm...the Pitch feature seems to me that doesn't work as it's expected to work
14:52:55GodEateras *you* expect it to work you mean ? ;)
14:52:56Genre9mp3I was just experimenting a bit (current build - Gigabeat F) and it's clear that the setting affects tempo as well while it shouldn't
14:53:19Genre9mp3or am I wrong to think that?
14:53:27GodEaterwhere do you get the impression it's not supposed to affect tempo ?
14:54:22Genre9mp3well, I always thought it was just affecting the pitch, thus the name (?)
14:55:51Genre9mp3Though it's been very looong time since I last used the feature, so I'm not sure what was the case then
14:56:04GodEaterIIUC pitch change is acheived by fiddling with the wavelength, which will inevitably change tempo as well
14:56:35GodEaterI could however be thoroughly wrong, I'm not really an audio expert
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14:56:57GodEaterhowever, I do know that when people come asking if they can speed up playback
14:57:07GodEaterthey're generally referred to "pitch" as a way to do it
14:57:18GodEaterso it would seem that it's always been a tempo affecting setting in Rockbox
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14:58:12Genre9mp3maybe I'm wrong then, but then the name of the feature is clearly misleading
14:58:14leachim6could I easily write a plugin for rockbox ? is there an API , Libs ?
14:59:05GodEaterleachim6: yes, yes
14:59:14leachim6and I assume it's in C ?
14:59:19GodEaterleachim6: yes again
14:59:27leachim6Link ?
14:59:31GodEaterGenre9mp3: what should it be called then
14:59:36GodEaterleachim6: to what ?
14:59:46leachim6a guide/tutorial/docs/ whatever
14:59:52Genre9mp3Also, -/+2% doesn't seem to work as well (in the Pitch screen): you get +/-2% as long as you hold the button, if you release it you get the value before
15:00:05leachim6I'm sure there is an example plugin lying around somewhere ?
15:00:20Genre9mp3GodEater: Maybe "Playback Speed" or "Pitch/Tempo"?
15:00:31GodEaterPlayback speed would also be wrong
15:00:33leachim6also...I'm sure this is ongoing ... but could you explain the difference between rockbox and iPod Linux beside the fact that it's not linux
15:00:35gevaertsGodEater: there are algorithms to change pitch without affecting tempo (or vice versa), but they all have two things in common : they cause distortions in various degrees, and I don't know much about them
15:00:48GodEatergevaerts: indeed, we have a timescaling patch in the tracker too
15:00:55GodEaterbut we don't have the reverse
15:01:18GodEater(timescaling being a way to increase playback speed without changing pitch)
15:01:27gevaertsThe reverse is basically combining that with the current pitch setting I guess
15:01:41GodEaterwhich I don't believe anyone has done
15:01:55GodEaterleachim6: you'd be best off browsing the rest of the site
15:02:04GodEaterwe're essentially not much like ipodlinux at all
15:02:46leachim6that's what I thought ... I tried to install iPod linux on my 5.x generation iPod and had to reflash it ... I installed rockbox in minutes with no trouble at all
15:02:56leachim6but I think iPod Linux has more packages
15:03:06leachim6can I get arm-elf-gcc for ubuntu ?
15:03:25gevaertsleachim6: ipodlinux is a general purpose operating system that happens to run on audio players and happens to have audio software, rockbox is audio player firmware that happens to have some non-audio related plugins
15:03:26GodEaterleachim6: download our source tree - we include a script in it for building the right versions of compilers for our targets
15:03:50*GodEater doubts very much there was any reflashing involved
15:04:15leachim6wow ... you guys thought of everything
15:04:17gevaertsThere might have been if it needed an OF restore
15:04:42leachim6Godo point ... I guess it's not flashing if it's not flash :)
15:06:08*GodEater also very much doubts if we have thought of everything ;)
15:06:16leachim6right rockbox was meant to improve on the iPods original function ... which is ... playing music ...but iPod linux wants to go above and beyond
15:06:27*GodEater would love to be omniscient, but doesn't kid himself that he is
15:06:39leachim6you have to run MPD on your iPod in iPodLinux to play music
15:06:43leachim6that seems a little bit overkill to me
15:06:46GodEateripodlinux wants to turn your ipod into a sort of PDA
15:07:04gevaertsleachim6: actually the ipod is a relatively recent port
15:07:05GodEaterRockbox wants to let you play audio, in the formats you want, in the way you want
15:07:19GodEaterand Rockbox has many more targets than just ipod
15:07:36pixelmaRockbox was not meant to improve the Ipod in the beginning
15:08:28leachim6once again ... I'm sure an ongoing question ... will there ever be better video support
15:08:33GodEaterand the ipod port is probably still not our best
15:08:37leachim6iPod linux can play DivX and XviD
15:08:38GodEaterleachim6: there already is
15:08:43leachim6for the ipod ?
15:08:50leachim6how do I get ti!
15:08:54GodEaterwe don't support those particular codecs though
15:09:01GodEaterleachim6: if you've installed Rockbox, you already have it
15:09:18leachim6mp1 and mp2 right ...
15:09:18leachim6nobody uses those :(
15:09:18leachim6'cept dvds ... but the files are huge
15:09:37leachim6will there ever be mp4 support ?
15:09:44GodEaterif someone decides to write it then yes
15:10:13leachim6so not officially then ...
15:10:15leachim6bummer ..
15:10:21GodEaterdefine "officially"
15:10:25gevaertsMaybe. Probably mp4 on the ipod will require someone to figure out the video chip in it, as the CPU is probably not fast enough to handle it
15:10:40leachim6the iPod Linux people did it ?
15:10:48leachim6that wasn't a question...
15:10:55leachim6I dunno what the ? was for :)
15:11:15*gevaerts does can easily be wrong on this :)
15:11:17GodEaterI've never seen an ipod running iPL at all, let alone one playing back DivX / XviD, so I've no idea how well it performs
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15:11:46GodEaterthe theory has been advanced that several of our players are definitely up to decoding mp4, and perhaps the iPods might be too
15:11:53GodEater(with or without the broadcom being involved)
15:12:01markunleachim6: what framerate do you get in ipodlinux while playing divx/xvid?
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15:12:13markunand do you have to resize them to 320x.. ?
15:12:15GodEatermarkun: I think he just said he hosed his ipod trying to install it =/
15:12:18leachim6wait ... I could be misinformed ...
15:12:37leachim6It might not play Divx or Xvid ... but it definately plays mp4
15:13:02*GodEater gets lost with the differences between all these codecs
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15:13:12markunI remember something about uncompressed video or something, but it's a long time ago I checked
15:16:55leachim6well ... both Divx and Xvid are mp4
15:17:07leachim6mp1 and mp2 are unrelated
15:17:11leachim6Mov is a wrapper for mp4
15:17:16leachim6avi is a wrapper for mp4 also
15:17:25gevaerts_anything_ can be a wrapper for mp4
15:17:33leachim6I'm talking general there
15:17:52leachim6a .foobar file could be a wrapper for mp4
15:18:38markunh.264 is also mpeg4
15:18:45markunso is aac
15:19:15markunso to say that some player plays 'mp4' doesn't tell you much (unless it can play everything in the mpeg4 standard)
15:19:33leachim6I mean like what the original apple firmware can play
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15:19:44leachim6640x480 h.264
15:19:58leachim6that takes a LOT of cpu power I dunno how the iPod does it
15:20:07dionoeadedicated DSP
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15:20:23dionoea(and mp4 is the file format/container, mpeg4 is the codec)
15:20:53leachim6how can I tri-boot Apple/Rockbox/iPod Linux
15:20:57markundionoea: but when people advertise a mp4 player they mean you can also play what's inside the container of course :)
15:21:02GodEaterleachim6: yes, the iPod Video contains a dedicated processor for decoding video, which unfortunately Rockbox is unable to make use of
15:21:06leachim6I want rockbox for media ... but I want Linux for apps
15:21:20leachim6GodEater, is there work being done on that ?
15:21:20markunleachim6: you can use the ipodlinux bootloader for example
15:21:21dionoeamarkun: you can put anything you want in mp4 :)
15:21:30GodEaterleachim6: not really - there's no documentation for the chip in question
15:21:44GodEaterleachim6: or you can use the rockbox boot loader ;)
15:21:58GodEaterI believe most hard core tri-booters use the iPL one though
15:22:03pixelmathe Rockbox bootloader can also boot all three... meh beaten
15:22:12Genre9mp3GodEater: I tried a quite older and the behavior is the same, so it seems I was under the wrong impression all this time for the Pitch feature... not that I'm using it to tell you the truth but I just wondered
15:22:17GodEaterwe just make the caveat that we won't support your rockbox install if it doesn't use our bootloader
15:22:31Genre9mp3GodEater: quite older build I meant
15:22:34GodEaterGenre9mp3: I'm glad my memory hasn't failed me then ;)
15:23:13Genre9mp3GodEater: maybe my memory failed me then? :/
15:23:48GodEatereither way, what you're thinking it's for is clearly a feature we still lack
15:23:55GodEaterso perhaps you could work on it for us ;)
15:24:58pixelmaI believe there is a patch in the tracker for it, not sure
15:26:03GodEaterpixelma: I only found a time-scaling patch, which does the opposite
15:26:09GodEaterbut if you can find another - please let me know
15:27:24Genre9mp3GodEater: Well, let me say I clearly lack the skills for code such a thing ;)
15:27:30pixelmamaybe I'm confused the two things as I'm not very interested in this feature and just remembered reading something related ;)
15:28:31amiconnGodEater, Genre9mp3: If you have both simple pitch (changing speed) and time-stretch with constant pitch, you can easily combine them to make pitch with constant speed
15:28:57*amiconn has no real need for either of those 3
15:30:02gevaertsIn theory you can, but I would expect that to use more CPU than doing it in one step, and the UI needs to allow combining them
15:30:20*gevaerts hasn't looked. Maybe the patch allows it
15:30:34*GodEater hasn't looked either since he also has no requirement for the feature
15:32:34leachim6are all of the rockbox ports different depending on the device ?
15:33:15GodEaterleachim6: only subtlely
15:33:26GodEaterfor example, we can't support recording on a target which has no hardware for it
15:33:35GodEaterotherwise we try to keep them functionally the same
15:33:42GodEaterthe main difference is usually in the keymap
15:34:14pixelmaand screen
15:34:32GodEateralthough we try to keep that as consistent as possible
15:34:45GodEaterit's a challenge for some of our ports ;)
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15:47:41mib_wdj13q9tNot finding anything significant in the ADC readings on the c100. Must the buttons be in there if not in GPIO?
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15:48:06LambdaCalculus37Not sure, dude.
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15:48:20*LambdaCalculus37 wonders if he can get a c100 for really cheap to help
15:48:57MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: I bought mine for $15 off craigslist. Found it hard to resist...
15:49:13LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: GPIO doesn't reveal anything?
15:50:22MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: GPIOA holds some unique button presses but volume-up, vol-down, and wheel-down all have the same effect, and left-up-right all do the same thing as well.
15:51:01LambdaCalculus37Sounds a little bit like the m200.
15:51:35LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Actually, I wanted to ask about the USB boot mode on the c100. When you enter it, does it show anything on screen?
15:52:25LambdaCalculus37You don't have to remove the NAND on the c100 either, do you?
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15:52:54LambdaCalculus37Because the m200 (mine, anyway) only enters USB boot mode if you open it up and remove the NAND daughterboard.
15:53:04MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Nope, I just hold select and connect the USB cable.
15:53:21LambdaCalculus37Battery inserted or removed?
15:53:30MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Either.
15:54:13LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: How about on the Logik DAX? How does USB boot mode work?
15:54:18MarcGuayIt's very easy to work with. I'm getting an RSI from building, connecting, and running tcctool in a loop.
15:54:59MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: I think he said it's a pain like the m200 - removing the NAND.
15:55:56LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: See, that's what I'm a little puzzled about. It's very simple to enter USB boot mode on the c100, but the m200 and the DAX require you to remove the NAND.
15:56:22LambdaCalculus37I still wonder why SanDisk didn't use a similar method of entering USB boot mode on the m200 like they did on the c100.
15:56:52*LambdaCalculus37 wonders if shotofadds' m230 will be easier to work with
16:04:21MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Does the Btn field on the m200 bootloader go nuts even when you aren't pressing a button?
16:05:21LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Yes, it did.
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16:23:59MarcGuayJust remembered that "Production Test Mode" is loaded when the Volume-Down and Circle-Down buttons are held, so there must be a button check in the boot sequence which would help distinguish Volume-Up from Vol-Down.
16:26:07*LambdaCalculus37 grabs his m240 to see if something similar happens there
16:28:09MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Maybe search the .rom file for "test". Did the c100 come out after the m200? It seems as though Sansa learned some lessons along the way.
16:28:39LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Y'know, I don't remember which came out first. :P
16:29:07LambdaCalculus37But I'll search the .rom file again.
16:29:33*LambdaCalculus37 looks to see if he still has the objdump text file he made of the m200's player.rom
16:32:26MarcGuayLooks like the c100 came out a few months before the m200. "Lesson-learned" theory = bunk.
16:33:14MTee_is there a way to covert .ttf fonts to .fnt or .bdf ?
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16:37:57MTee_anyone there ?
16:40:16MarcGuayLlorean: Not a fan of automation for automation's sake? :)
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16:41:33LloreanMarcGuay: Not a fan of false solutions.
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16:41:56LloreanI can't imagine any such plugin being particularly reliable, and if it's something you have to manually do anyway, why not just set the time?
16:42:46LloreanThen again, I don't use the RTC on my MP3 player anyway, so maybe I shouldn't weight in. I own a cellphone, and a wristwatch, and all the computers I work at have clocks attached to the internet, and so on...
16:43:16*LambdaCalculus37 uses the RTC on his devices, but *only* on those rare days that he forgets about his wristwatch ;)
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16:44:00robin0800A stopwatch type function would be more usefull IMHO
16:44:19LambdaCalculus37Which IIRC is already there.
16:44:27*LambdaCalculus37 checks
16:44:48LambdaCalculus37There's one under Plugins > Applications.
16:44:58LloreanI can understand people wanting to minimize drift for things such as wake-up alarms, or timed recordings.
16:45:03PaulJamthere are even two stopwatches, the clock plugin has such a fuctionality too.
16:45:18LloreanBut the latter at least is best served by manually starting the recording if you need real precision.
16:45:19leachim6are there any plugins that aren't included in the default install
16:45:41Lloreanleachim6: People make them from time to time, but we try to include them if they're submitted and work well
16:45:59LloreanMarcGuay: But honestly, if the drift is constant enough to do that, why not just automatically adjust for the drift every boot?
16:46:12LloreanAnd if it's not constant enough, a manual plugin serves no purpose
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17:17:28wpyhBuschel: thanks for the comments
17:18:24wpyhBuschel: by the Accessory Power Supply, do you mean that the OF always turns it on?
17:21:15wpyhBuschel: For the FLAC codec, thanks for the work on that one :) I will test it later, but for now I have a new idea
17:21:35wpyhBuschel: let's eliminate as much factors as possible, and loop one single song
17:26:35wpyhBuschel: that way, we can eliminate the disk access factor
17:26:38wpyhwhat do you think?
17:26:58wpyhAnd I generally would like to compare the same file format
17:27:22wpyhBuschel: this way, we can measure the OF's codec effectiveness, with which we can eliminate another factor in power consumption
17:28:50GodEaterLambdaCalculus37: linuxstb has a Logik DAX with a switch soldered to it's motherboard which allows him to toggle the boot mode
17:29:07wpyhBuschel: for example, if we found out (ruling out other factors) that the OF's codec is as optimal as RB's (roughly same runtime), and we also know OF's codec speed (which we do know), we can measure the other codecs' (vorbis, flac, mpc, etc) optimization too
17:29:49wpyhBuschel: it's indirect of course, but that's good and useful enough
17:31:01wpyhBuschel: therefore I think I should test on the Nano. I have a frankenstein-monster style Nano (scavenged parts), but I think it would be ok. Also, testing with Nano means the testing time is reduced by half ;)
17:32:08LambdaCalculus37GodEater: Interesting. :)
17:34:14GodEatera colleague of mine at work did the attaching for him
17:34:22GodEaterand I then had the opportunity to test it
17:34:32*GodEater can't solder for toffee
17:34:37LambdaCalculus37I wonder if something similar can be done on the m200.
17:34:43wpyhBuschel: I also saw FS #8668. I think you should split the patch into parts −− one for the CPU speed, another for the button, etc
17:34:56wpyhBuschel: and maybe the CPU patch can go in first (what do you think?)
17:35:00*LambdaCalculus37 can (unfortunately) be a little shaky with a soldering iron as well
17:35:09scorche|shLambdaCalculus37: i was curious of the same thing
17:35:19*scorche|sh isnt so shaky ;)
17:35:22GodEaterLambdaCalculus37: well the DAX had a very helpfully labelled couple of points on it's board which read NAND and USB
17:35:30GodEaterso guessing which ones to hook up wasn't tricky
17:35:37GodEaterI take it there's nothing to obvious on your DAP ?
17:35:59LambdaCalculus37GodEater: Not that I can see, anyway. But maybe shotofadds will be able to find something.
17:36:10LambdaCalculus37scorche|sh: I'm sending you the m240 later today.
17:37:03LambdaCalculus37Want the USB cable for it as well?
17:37:07wpyhamiconn: I think you have a point there, saying that dropping 1 or 2 bits from 32-bit intermediate values, with 16-bit output is negligible
17:37:22wpyhamiconn: I think you may want to do some testing though
17:38:02wpyhamiconn: I think there will be little difference (maybe 1 bit) at the output, depending on how the intermediate is used in the calculation
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18:00:39noapicI am interested in using rockbox's WMA decoder on Sony PSP. Is the code portable?
18:01:37scorche|shout of curiousity, why not port rockbox as an app?
18:02:38noapicyou mean the rockbox's user space part? It will take a huge time for a n00b like me.
18:03:32noapicanyways we have lot of goodies on PSP (irshell, snex9x, lightmp3) so not really missing any rockbox features.
18:04:28GodEaterLambdaCalculus37: according to shotofadds latest post there are some contacts which are marked as I described on the DAX
18:04:28LambdaCalculus37You do realize that Rockbox's primary function is audio playback, right?
18:04:56GodEater*marked on the m200 that is
18:05:02LambdaCalculus37GodEater: Okay, I'll go have a look.
18:05:23GodEaternoapic: AFAIK rockbox's WMA codec is based on ffmpeg's - so it should be portable
18:06:00*GodEater notes that the RockboxPlayer thread has been very quiet of late.
18:06:46*LambdaCalculus37 thinks that casahino finally gave up
18:07:32noapicGodEater: And is the WMA code capable of functioning standalone (like a library that is) ... I read that MDCT was implemented in ASM was quite scared about its porting :(
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18:08:19LambdaCalculus37GodEater: We should contact shotofadds about the switch that linuxstb had added to his DAX, and that the same could be done for his m200.
18:09:09LambdaCalculus37Unfortunately, I can't check mine now because it's going out to shotofadds via Scorche's Super Shipping Service.
18:09:35scorche|shor i could see about soldering a switch on before DCE and testing it there
18:09:50UnixnutHello everyone! I am having some issues with my ipod video and was hoping for some help, each time I turn on the ipod, the bootloader halts with "No partition found". I have tried upgrading to the latest version of rockbox and the bootloader with no luck, any ideas?
18:10:02LambdaCalculus37scorche|sh: Good idea. :)
18:10:36scorche|shUnixnut: what file system is your ipod using?
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18:10:56gevaertsUnixnut: is that a 5.5G ?
18:11:08Unixnutno, its a 5G ipod Video, 30GB
18:12:27UnixnutRockbox worked fine before, but with time it started locking up, and some songs would go missing with 'no file'.
18:13:07Unixnutso I did a fsck, it reported errors and said it fixed them, but then the bootloader gave the error above.
18:13:23gevaertsThat _could_ be the disk going bad I guess
18:13:39LambdaCalculus37That or you fracked the partition.
18:14:03Unixnutso I decided to make a new FS (fat32) and start from scratch. After mounting and transferring the latest rockbox it still gave me the error
18:14:04 Quit BlakeJohnson87 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:14:24UnixnutI thought that it might be the disk, so I ran badblocks, but it finished with no bad blocks found
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18:14:48UnixnutI don't know if the partition is messed up, I had a look with fdisk and it seemed intact.
18:14:53*gevaerts starts to support LambdaCalculus37's theory
18:15:13MTee_I've added the arabic character set to a font, converted it to fnt and added it to rb but it couldn't render the arabic letters , though another font (unifont) is capable of rendering them, what would be the reason for that ?
18:15:13pixelmagevaerts: or the partition mount problem you and amiconn recently solved?
18:15:49gevaertspixelma: if it's really a 5G, it can't be that.
18:16:15pixelmaah right, overlooked that for some reason
18:16:17LambdaCalculus37I think the iPod's firmware partition may have been damaged.
18:16:26 Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection)
18:16:27gevaertsUnixnut: when you connect it to your PC, does dmesg report 512 byte sectors or 2048 byte sectors ? (assuming you use linux)
18:16:38Unixnut2048 sectors
18:16:44LambdaCalculus37Unixnut: Also, what does fdisk -l report?
18:17:09Unixnutthat partition 1 is empty o.0
18:17:15UnixnutDisk /dev/sdg: 30.0 GB, 30005821440 bytes
18:17:15Unixnut255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 912 cylinders
18:17:15UnixnutUnits = cylinders of 16065 * 2048 = 32901120 bytes
18:17:15DBUGEnqueued KICK Unixnut
18:17:15UnixnutDisk identifier: 0x20202020
18:17:15Unixnut Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
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18:17:40LambdaCalculus37Unixnut: Can you please pastebin output like that next time?
18:17:42GodEatercan't be a 5G if it's 2048 byte sectors
18:18:26LambdaCalculus37Copy output there, then link to the pastebinned results.
18:18:37Unixnutits model number A1136, I thought it was a 5G, as it was bought at the same time as another 5G a few years ago
18:18:53LambdaCalculus37You may have a 5.5G.
18:19:03LambdaCalculus37What's the serial number on the back of the iPod?
18:19:09GodEaterthere is no doubt - if it's 2048 byte sectors it IS a 5.5G
18:19:46LambdaCalculus37It's definitely 5.5G.
18:19:56Unixnutok, sorry for the mishap
18:20:14CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
18:20:14*wpyh smells interesting discussion here :)
18:20:32gevaertsHow did you format it ? mformat or mkfs.msdos ?
18:20:46Unixnut(fdisk -l output here: ) if I worked out how to use the site
18:21:13LambdaCalculus37Unixnut: You'll want to dd this file: to /dev/sdg1.
18:21:27*gevaerts looks at wpyh for details about formatting
18:21:32MTee_people, about arabic rendering ..
18:21:33wpyhyour partition table looks good
18:21:45Unixnutok, dd'ing
18:21:54wpyhoh no...
18:22:14wpyhyou've just told him to write an mbr to his fw partition
18:22:46MTee_ I've added the arabic character set to a font, converted it to fnt and added it to rb but the arabic letters couldn't be rendered, though with another font (unifont) they are rendered correctly, what would be the reason for that ?
18:22:50Unixnutwell, now I get a different message: "Connect to your computer, use iTunes to restore"
18:23:50wpyhUnixnut: don't worry
18:23:50Unixnutthe rockbox bootloader does not even kick-in.
18:24:04*gevaerts thinks that LambdaCalculus37 should stand in the corner for a while
18:24:16Unixnutwhat happened?
18:24:24*LambdaCalculus37 puts on a dunce cap and sits in a corner
18:24:31wpyhUnixnut: something um... nothing happened :p
18:24:34wpyhtry this:
18:24:44wpyhskip right to step 4
18:24:55wpyhdon't even look at step 2 :p (for your case ;) )
18:24:58LambdaCalculus37wpyh: I was going to get to that, too. :P
18:25:27wpyhLambdaCalculus37: shows how useful that page is ;)
18:25:37Unixnutok, but what just happened?
18:25:57wpyhUnixnut: well... we'll tell you after you get rockbox running :) ok?
18:26:05 Quit DaCapn ()
18:26:21gevaertsUnixnut: that partition table (mbr-video30gb-2048.bin) should have gone to /dev/sdg, not /dev/sdg1 (although it's probably not needed at all)
18:26:57gevaerts/dev/sdg1 is the apple firmware partition, which also contains the rockbox bootloader. Writing something else there makes it Not Work
18:26:58wpyhgevaerts: I was keeping it for later...
18:27:04wpyhgevaerts: but ok
18:27:25Unixnutok, no probs, downloading the new firmware now (I presume it is the 5.5 option)
18:27:46wpyhUnixnut: yeah, you have to download the 5.5G firmware, as it's not compatible with the 5G
18:27:46saratoganoapic: I wrote the wma codec
18:28:13saratogaits fairly portable, its being used in at least one other project
18:28:24saratogaand parts of it are in another
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18:30:28Unixnutok, I dd'ed the new firmware on to the partition, now what (no worried LambdaCalculus37, I've done the same countless times)
18:30:39Unixnut*worries, dammit
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18:31:22wpyhUnixnut: follow the steps on the page
18:31:35 Join Schmogel [0] (
18:31:59Unixnutok, It seems to have booted into the original apple firmware.
18:32:39 Join mib_4pk9l3rq [0] (i=cdcdc8ee@gateway/web/ajax/
18:32:51Unixnutall seems good, I will try to install rockbox now.
18:32:58 Nick mib_4pk9l3rq is now known as MarcGuay_ (i=cdcdc8ee@gateway/web/ajax/
18:33:16MarcGuay_Holy snap. Time to update the BuyersGuide?
18:33:35gevaertsMaybe reformat first. Formatting for 512 byte sectors may be the cause of the original problem
18:34:01itchegI'm interested in getting support for Ipod accessories supported, what can I do to help
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18:34:04Unixnutsure thing
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18:34:20wpyhUnixnut: please use the mkfs.vfat method to format
18:34:25*gevaerts decides not to buy a 60GB X5 for now
18:34:40wpyhUnixnut: then post the output of 'file -Ls /dev/sdX2' to pastebin and paste the link here
18:34:48gevaertsUnixnut: make sure you have the -S 2048
18:35:20wpyhgevaerts: the 30GB drive is 512-byte hardware sectors, so formatting it with 512-byte sectors won't create a problem with the OF
18:35:38UnixnutI did use mkfs.vfat, just that it was aliased to mkdosfs, so when I run mkfs.vfat, it told me it was mkdosfs. I wasn't sure which to post as me using here, so I went with mkdosfs.
18:35:40wpyhgevaerts: it will only create problems when mounted on Linux, since it obviously won't mount (I've tried that ;) )
18:35:59wpyhUnixnut: mkfs.vfat is just a symlink to mkdosfs, so it's not a problem :)
18:36:19Unixnutcool :)
18:36:20 Quit Schmogel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:36:21Unixnutformatting now
18:38:07Unixnutok, done (
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18:40:23wpyhthat short?
18:40:31wpyhI'd expect file to spit out more info
18:40:31Unixnutyeah, that was it
18:40:39wpyhwhat's your distro?
18:40:58wpyhwell I didn't know gentoo would strip off so much info...
18:41:00wpyhbut ok,
18:41:10wpyhcan you mount the partition?
18:41:42Unixnutyes I can
18:42:44wpyhthen the partition is good I think
18:42:51wpyhwell, try to install rockbox then :)
18:43:09UnixnutI shall do now, and will let you know how it goes :)
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18:44:40UnixnutJust to ask, I am running ipodpatcher now, and it says it is a 5th Gen ipod, is this correct? Or should it say 5.5Gen?
18:46:32Unixnutwell, I'll continue installing, and see how it goes.
18:47:45wpyhI think that's ok
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18:48:21Unixnutok, it said it patched the bootloader correctly, I extracted rockbox into sdg2, and now I'm restarting.
18:48:43Unixnutand... Same problem
18:48:47Unixnut"No partition found"
18:49:46wpyhI'm beginning to think a format problem
18:49:55wpyhwhat was the exact command you used to format the partition?
18:50:22UnixnutI have tried the following commands: ' mkfs.vfat -S 2048 -F 32 /dev/sdg2 ' and ' mkfs.vfat -S 2048 /dev/sdg2 '
18:50:43wpyhwhich one is last?
18:51:01Unixnutthe plain one
18:51:08Unixnutwithout -F 32
18:51:09wpyhok, so that's wrong
18:51:20wpyhit creates a FAT16 filesystem
18:51:28wpyhwe need a FAT32 filesystem for the ipod video :)
18:51:33Unixnutyeah, I figured, but I tried the otherone as well
18:51:41UnixnutI will try again
18:51:52wpyhUnixnut: and you got the same error?
18:52:26Unixnutyeah, also in both situations, the apple firmware loaded fine, and even put its folders into the root area with no issues (I saw folders for 'Music' etc...)
18:52:46Unixnutbut I will try one more time with the -F 32 option
18:53:14MTee_people, anyone there who could help me with arabic rendering ?
18:53:35wpyhUnixnut: did you modify the partition table?
18:54:32Unixnutno, didn't touch it
18:54:52Unixnutok, formatted it again, now trying to restart
18:55:24wpyhgood, I think the partition table is ok
18:55:58*wpyh has to go soon
18:56:15Unixnut(just to note, each time I reformat sdg2, I also dd the original firmware back to sdg1, boot to see if it works, then patch it)
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18:56:32wpyhUnixnut: no need to always reflash the OF
18:56:45Unixnutjust more of a 'in case' scenario
18:57:13wpyhyou can hold MENU while booting to boot the OF anway
18:57:24wpyhso, does it start up correctly?
18:57:42 Quit MarcGuay_ (" ajax IRC Client")
19:00:18UnixnutNo :(
19:00:20Unixnutsame issue again
19:00:50pixelmaI still have the suspicion I asked gevaerts about, unfortunately I'm lacking the knowledge to explain and don't dare giving an advice (I _think_ it involves an SVN bootloader)
19:00:50wpyhmaybe you should try mformat then
19:00:57UnixnutAlso, with the 'No partition found' error, I can't boot into the normal apple firmware
19:00:58wpyhI suspect that gentoo patched mkdosfs
19:01:41Unixnutbut I have patched many ipods under this OS, with no problems.
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19:02:02UnixnutI shall try mformat
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19:02:05wpyhUnixnut: you can try with vanilla dosfstools, or you can also try mformat
19:02:16wpyhother ipods are different −− they export 512-byte sectors
19:02:28wpyhalthough I don't see why your ipod should fail
19:02:34wpyhalso, I have to go now
19:02:38Unixnutwhat should I run with mformat?
19:02:52Unixnutno problems, thanks for your help :)
19:02:58wpyhso if mformat also fails, please see and follow the instructions from IpodManualRestore
19:03:24wpyhIt contains all the information you need (assuming all works correctly)
19:03:40Unixnutthanks a lot, I shall keep trying
19:04:19wpyhbtw, I saw some patches in the gentoo's package for dosfstools, which is the package that contains mkdosfs
19:04:30wpyhI think you might want to try a vanilla version :)
19:04:32wpyhgood luck :)
19:04:42Unixnutif mtools fails as well, I shall try the vanilla version
19:04:46Unixnutthanks! :)
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19:08:32gevaertsUnixnut: if that still doesn't work, can you give the output of sfdisk -uS -l /dev/sdg ?
19:09:54 Quit MTee_ ("Ex-Chat")
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19:11:12Unixnutsure thing, currently downloading a vanilla version of mkdosfs
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19:13:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:13:31Unixnuthmm, the vanilla version I got does not seem to support fat 32
19:14:43Unixnutanyone know where I can get a recent vanilla version of mkdosfs?
19:14:59Unixnutthey don't seem to have a project page that I can find, and the only vanilla version I found so far is from 1997
19:16:03Aveget the source of debian package dosfstools
19:18:15UnixnutThanks a lot, formatting now
19:18:31 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:18:50Unixnutok, formatted, now restarting
19:19:15 Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
19:19:36Unixnutand same problem, "No partition found"
19:20:12gevaertsCan you get this output of "sfdisk -uS -l /dev/sdg" ?
19:20:30Unixnutyeah, doing it now
19:21:38Unixnutdone, its here:
19:23:36gevaertsOK. Can you do "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdg bs=512 seek=4 count=248" ? Make sure not to make typos in there
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19:24:22Unixnutok, done
19:24:34gevaertsThen tru
19:24:42gevaertstry rockbox again (no need to reinstall)
19:24:56Unixnutok, trying
19:26:23Unixnutnope, still the same
19:28:18gevaertsThen it's not the issue we found a few weeks ago.
19:28:38Unixnutyay! I always get the issues nobody heard of, lol
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19:28:53wpyhcan't sleep
19:29:01*wpyh is reading the logs
19:29:30wpyhhm... Unixnut, you're using the vanilla dosfstools, right?
19:29:36wpyhso that is not the problem
19:29:45Unixnutyeah, the ones in the link gevaerts gave me
19:30:07wpyhby the way, how did you obtain rockbox?
19:30:10wpyhis it through svn?
19:30:17 Quit grndslm (Remote closed the connection)
19:30:27Unixnutno, throught the 'current build' option
19:30:36Unixnuton the site
19:30:54wpyhok... can you try to get SVN and build it?
19:31:04wpyhit would take some time since you have to build the toolchain as well
19:31:08gevaertsWhat difference would that make ?
19:31:18wpyhI would ask him to try to debug it
19:31:26wpyhsince we know the BL is ok
19:31:37wpyhthen we can debug it
19:31:44wpyhby printing markers throughout the code
19:32:05wpyhthat's what I did when I used a 1 GB cf card and formatted it with FAT16
19:32:22wpyhit turns out the build for ipod video only recognizes FAT32 and not FAT16
19:32:23 Quit MethoS_ (No route to host)
19:32:37wpyhbut in this case, the problem seems to be something else
19:32:52wpyhstill, we can trace it with markers :)
19:33:04gevaertsThe other way would be to find a windows PC with itunes, and let that do a restore first
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19:33:26wpyhso Unixnut, basically what you should do is get the svn, build the toolchain, then build the BL
19:33:34 Quit bertrik (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:33:38wpyhgevaerts: that might fix it, but I doubt it
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19:34:07wpyhitunes restore only does two things:1. restore the fw, and then 2. format the partition
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19:34:41UnixnutOk, where is the SVN URL?
19:34:44wpyhUnixnut: after that, try to grep for strings that you see on the screen, for example "No partition found"
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19:35:18wpyhuh... I don't remember... it's located somewhere deep on the website...
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19:35:38Unixnutyeah, I'm digging around the site looking for it
19:36:07Unixnutok, checking otu
19:36:09wpyhgevaerts: maybe we should put it on the frontpage, no?
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19:37:25Unixnutchecked out, so now I have to build the toolchain you say?
19:37:47wpyhUnixnut: so, what you would do is print markers, as I said. You will find the string "No partition found" in several places, and you should put different markers for each. For example, I modified it into "<file.c>: No partition found", with <file.c> being the source file name of course
19:37:52bluebrotherwpyh: why? It's not "deep", just go to docs index / for developers / using svn ;-)
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19:38:41wpyhyes, get and build the toolchain. there's this script tools/
19:38:57wpyhbluebrother: well, I had to resort to google to find it :p
19:39:08wpyhit's not obvious at all from the front page
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19:39:20*gevaerts just uses svn info
19:39:28wpyhof course, once I had the svn tree I just happily svn up regularly, so I forgot the issue :p
19:39:29bluebrotherhehe, that search box can be quite useful ;-)
19:39:37UnixnutI presume I only have to worry about the ipod related files (I see './bootloader/ipod.' and './bootloader/common.c' and './firmware/common/disk.c')
19:39:40wpyhgevaerts thanks ;)
19:39:48solar_georgeDoes anyone know if this ( player work with rockbox
19:40:12wpyhbluebrother: yeah :p but it would be better if we put a link called "SVN" on the front page IMO
19:40:25LambdaCalculus37solar_george: As long as it's a v1.
19:40:27wpyhUnixnut: yes, should be those files
19:40:31wpyhand the fat driver too
19:40:49solar_george<LambdaCalculus37> is there any easy way to tell
19:41:01wpyhthen, when you've found the place where the string is output, work your way back the failing function
19:41:09solar_george<LambdaCalculus37> I want to be sure before I buy it
19:41:17wpyhnote that sometimes you have to use printf() instead of DEBUGF()
19:41:24LambdaCalculus37Only way to is to view what version of firmware it has on it.
19:41:34gevaertssolar_george: I would guess that most (if not all) sold as new c200s are v2
19:41:36LambdaCalculus37If the firmware is 01.XX.XX, it's a v1.
19:41:44LambdaCalculus37If it's 03.XX.XX, it's a v2.
19:41:51LambdaCalculus37That's the only surefire way to tell.
19:42:10LambdaCalculus37If it's from a private seller, ask them to tell you the firmware version number.
19:44:26bertrikand don't take "the latest" for an answer :)
19:46:24 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
19:46:46solar_george<LambdaCalculus37> Yeah I'll ask them
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19:48:47*Unixnut is now building the toolchain
19:51:20wpyha note: be creative when debugging ;)
19:51:24*wpyh tries to sleep again
19:51:45Unixnuthehehe, I'll try (being my first time and all)
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19:55:08LambdaCalculus37Unixnut: Welcome to the wonderful world of Rockbox. ;)
19:56:35Unixnutand C/C++ coding I guess (always wanted to learn, I guess this is a way of actually getting round to it)
19:57:48LambdaCalculus37Since Rockbox is C, concentrate on that first.
19:57:50bertrikUnixnut, rockbox is C and a tiny bit of ASM for time critical and very low-level parts, there's no C++ in it
19:58:08LambdaCalculus37bertrik: RButil is C++, though.
19:58:20*bertrik was going to say the exact same thing
19:58:27Unixnutok, I don't quite know the difference between them (from what I know, c++ is more object oriented, but thats it really)
19:59:03 Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
19:59:15LambdaCalculus37Going into the differences between C and C++ is going off-topic here, but Google is the Great Deity of All Knowledge in these sorts of things. :)
19:59:25UnixnutI shall have a look
19:59:57Unixnutnow the toolchain is done, so I preume I compile rockbox, load it onto the ipod and see what interesting messages appear
20:00:44LambdaCalculus37Unixnut: Have a look here:
20:00:59LambdaCalculus37And here:
20:01:15UnixnutThanks! reading now
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20:01:44LambdaCalculus37Do you already have Subversion installed?
20:01:51Unixnutdo you think I need to compile rockbox itself? it seems the problem happens before the actual rockbox binary is even executed
20:02:05Unixnutyes I have, already checked out the sources as well.
20:02:09gevaertsStart with the bootloader
20:02:23LambdaCalculus37Then you can compile a normal build.
20:03:21LambdaCalculus37By the way, when you run tools/configure, it'll ask you what device you're compiling for; picking iPod video will ask you how much RAM to compile for. 32MB is for 30GB iPods, 64MB is for 60/80GB iPods.
20:06:22Unixnutok, compiled, now I presume the file is "bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod"
20:06:31Unixnutdo I just dd it, or do I have to use ipodpatcher?
20:07:29gevaertsYou need to use ipodpatcher
20:07:49*gevaerts leaves the exact command to others who actually know it
20:08:04Unixnutdo I have to remove the currently installed bootloader, or will ipodpatcher do that automatically for me?
20:08:52Unixnutnever mind, I will try it either way
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20:10:04bluebrotheripodpatcher will replace the old bootloader
20:10:19Unixnutok, thanks
20:10:35bertrikI would just use a pre-compiled bootloader when starting with rockbox
20:10:56gevaertsbertrik: this is about debugging an issue ;)
20:11:21bertrikan issue in the bootloader?
20:11:46*gevaerts has no idea right now
20:11:59 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
20:12:26LambdaCalculus37bertrik: So it's best that he do it this way.
20:13:29 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
20:19:38Unixnutok, I ran my bootloader, and it fails with "No partition found" from ipod.c, line 295
20:19:41 Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:20:20Unixnutwhich is the "rc = disk_mount_all();" function, followed by ("if rc<=0") statement
20:20:50UnixnutI presume rc<=0, so it prints the message and calls fatal_error(); function
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20:25:50gevaertsI would say that it fails in disk_mount() in firmware/common/disk.c (lines around 215), or in fat_mount() (firmware/drivers/fat.c)
20:28:03Unixnutoh, how come? (not saying you are wrong, just want to understand whats going on)
20:28:59gevaertsdisk_mount_all() calls disk_mount(), and it doesn't do much else
20:29:13Unixnutoh, so whats the point of disk_mount_all()?
20:29:58gevaertsIt mounts filesystems on all disks. On ipods there is only one
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20:30:21domonokyUnixnut: disk_mount_all() also mounts also memory cards, if you player has such a thing.. :-)
20:30:23UnixnutI see, so it doesn't do much else for ipods, but for other players it probably does, got it
20:30:33Unixnutthanks alot guys.
20:31:10domonokyso next step would be to put some outputs into disk_mount, to see if it doesnt find a partition, or if the fat_mount fails..
20:31:28Unixnutyeah, currently grepping for the function
20:31:44domonokyits in firmware/common/disk.c
20:32:16gevaertson ipod fat_mount gets called once for each possible sector size (512,1024,2048). On a 5.5G it's expected to fail twice, and then succeed on the 2048 byte attempt
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20:47:08itchegI have a boombox with an Ipod dock, what can I do to help get rockbox support for it?
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20:53:36domonokyitcheg: you could help other which work on the apple accessory support, see FS #8624 in the tracker..
20:53:57Unixnutjust to ask, what is the difference between printf and debugf?
20:54:51itchegthanks domonoky will have a look at it
20:55:46Buschelwpyh: regarding FS #8668 a split is of course possible. problem is that the 5G's UI gets too unresponsive then. so, at least the 5G needs the boost-on-button or gui-boost.
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20:57:50Unixnutre bootloader, what is pinfo?
20:57:51Buschelwpyh: of course i could extract the gui-boost as patch for the gui-unresponsiveness that is reported for 5G with svn as well. i am not sure about the effect on plugins and games
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21:10:50_ntsni have a e260 sansa and i wish to install rockbox on it
21:11:13LambdaCalculus37Before we begin, what is the version number of the Sansa's firmware?
21:11:49_ntsncan you guide me how to check the version? (i bought this sansa 2 years ago)
21:12:01LambdaCalculus37Settings > System Info
21:12:56_ntsnim in the middle of copying my 4gbs of music, i will get back to you in 5 minutes when its done, thanks alot for the fast reply :)
21:13:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:13:41_ntsnduring the copying, how much space does rockbox cost?
21:14:02 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
21:14:25LambdaCalculus37Rockbox should need around 10-15 MB.
21:14:36_ntsnat the minimum?
21:14:47_ntsnif im using the full-feature'd version?
21:16:29LambdaCalculus37The Rockbox build itself is 5.85MB.
21:17:14Llorean_ntsn: What od you mean by "full-feature'd" version?
21:17:27pixelmaah, the fonts folder is quite large, about 10MB
21:17:48LambdaCalculus37And extra themes add to that as well.
21:17:49_ntsnas i saw, you can upgrade / add addons / however you call it
21:17:56_ntsnim right?
21:18:22LambdaCalculus37You can. But I was giving you a rough estimate of how much free space you'll need.
21:18:44_ntsnokay, thanks
21:19:05_ntsnwell i have just unpluged it, its refreshing DB
21:19:51_ntsnokay here we go, the version which acquired from settings >> system info is:
21:20:27_ntsni guess its pretty old..
21:20:35LambdaCalculus37We're in business! :)
21:20:47LambdaCalculus37Have a look at the manual:
21:20:53_ntsnyes i did
21:21:04LambdaCalculus37Did you find the link to RButil in it?
21:21:08domonoky_ntsn: thats fine, just read the manual, and use rbutil to install rockbox..
21:21:10LambdaCalculus37You can use that to install Rockbox.
21:21:20_ntsni read the getting started & the installation notes
21:22:00_ntsni was wondering, since i saw there is another version (e2xxR) how i can determine that im not using the R version?
21:22:19_ntsnyou achived this information from the version?
21:22:40 Part toffe82
21:23:09LambdaCalculus37Is your Sansa a Rhapsody model? With an R in the model name?
21:23:25_ntsni dont know, thats my main problem
21:23:45LambdaCalculus37There's a surefire way to find out.
21:23:58_ntsnim listening :)
21:24:03LambdaCalculus37Settings > USB.
21:24:09LambdaCalculus37What do the options say?
21:24:52_ntsnfrom top to bottom: MSC, MTP
21:24:58_ntsncurrently its set to MSC
21:25:07LambdaCalculus37Not an R model! And good job! :)
21:25:28LambdaCalculus37So download and fire up RButil, and Rockbox your Sansa! :)
21:25:33_ntsnbefore im using the tutorial
21:25:51_ntsnand equipping my sansa with rockbox
21:25:59_ntsnthere is a way to backup my current settings?
21:26:10_ntsni have 2 other files on the root ( ./ ) of my sansa:
21:26:22LambdaCalculus37Which are?
21:26:27_ntsnjust a sec
21:26:51_ntsnthe first: USB_Disk_Eject.exe
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21:27:04 Join metro [0] (n=4baa0ca2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:27:20_ntsnim using it for connecting my sansa to school computer which have no option of uplugging it safely
21:27:31LambdaCalculus37They won't be afffected by the install, and the settings on your Sansa's OF won't be affected.
21:27:38_ntsn(i open it stright from my sansa and its unplug it safely)
21:27:47metrolots of people... wow...
21:27:49_ntsnwhat if OF?
21:27:59LambdaCalculus37Original Firmware.
21:28:06LambdaCalculus37What SanDisk put on the Sansa.
21:28:10_ntsnand i have
21:28:11_ntsnPlaylist Creator.exe
21:28:18_ntsnwhich creates playlists
21:28:27LambdaCalculus37Rockbox uses .m3u files for playlists.
21:28:30_ntsnwith correspondence to directory tree
21:28:46_ntsnso now i can delete my playlist creator
21:28:57LambdaCalculus37Here's RButil:
21:28:59_ntsni also have winamp_cache_0001.xml on my root
21:29:11_ntsnwhat its stands for? why it is there?
21:29:30LambdaCalculus37Don't know. Ask Winamp support about that.
21:29:33metroanyone familiar with rockbox and sansa players have time for a quick question?
21:29:48LambdaCalculus37metro: Just ask.
21:30:32metroalrighty, metronome.. any ideas why I can't get it to play on my sansa c240? everything seems to be fine, it just won't start the count
21:31:27pixelmait's a bug and not _that_ easy to fix (without a decision). There's a forum thread about it
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21:32:40_ntsnthe installation guide is standing in front of my eyes, i can see 2 main sections: automated installation and manual
21:32:42metrohmm, quite the bummer. would be perfect for me with a working metronome.
21:33:02LambdaCalculus37Use "manual".
21:33:15_ntsnwhich is preffered for your opinion?
21:33:33_ntsnand better for me
21:33:36LambdaCalculus37I don't use RBUtil to install. I do it the manual way. :)
21:33:37gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: why ?
21:33:48domonokyuse rbutil its much easier..
21:34:05pixelmametro: I hope that this decision will be made in about 1.5 weeks and then try to work on fixes
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21:34:09LambdaCalculus37_ntsn: Sorry. I misread what you said.
21:34:14LambdaCalculus37Use RBUtil (automated).
21:34:29 Quit Naked (
21:34:43bluebrotherusing rbutil is more user-friendly. At least if you like GUIs ;-)
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21:36:04metroSo pixelma, who would I have to pay (for real) to get a patch for the metronome plugin for my sansa?
21:36:06_ntsnactually im not a gui man (usually i do the coding part and my partner do the gui's :D )
21:36:34pixelmametro: ? that doesn't work this way
21:36:40_ntsnumm lambda, which version of rbutil (win32) is preffered?
21:36:46_ntsnand recommende?
21:37:13LambdaCalculus37Are you using Windows?
21:37:38_ntsni have xubuntu and winxp but i currently use winxp
21:38:10LambdaCalculus37Then use the link I gave above.
21:39:00_ntsnthere is no SFV / MD5 to make sure it downloaded successfuly ?
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21:41:32LambdaCalculus37No. Just open the zip file and extract it to a folder.
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21:41:47_ntsni have just extracted it
21:41:53_ntsnumm the guide is pretty messy
21:41:58LambdaCalculus37Launch it.
21:41:59_ntsn(at the websites)
21:42:16_ntsncan you go with me during the installation?
21:42:20_ntsn(im doing it right now)
21:42:46_ntsnjust to make sure that im not making and dumb things that would make it not work :D
21:43:33LambdaCalculus37_ntsn: RBUtil is perfectly straightforward. I'm sure you can do it by yourself.
21:43:46bluebrother_ntsn: there is no md5sum because zip itself contains a CRC to check the validity of the file
21:44:00_ntsnoh okay, thanks blue
21:44:12bluebrotherI'd suggest you simply start using it and ask specific questions if you're stuck.
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21:44:27_ntsnumm there is kind of problem here
21:44:31_ntsnmy sansa i connected
21:44:39_ntsni want to unplug it
21:44:50NJoinNaked [0] (
21:44:50unpaidbillrockbox doesnt work on ipod nano?
21:44:50unpaidbillmakes me sad
21:44:51bluebrotherit's in UMS mode, right?
21:44:54_ntsni cant unplug it safely with the winxp dialog
21:45:08bluebrotherunpaidbill: it works on the Nano 1G (the non-metal ones)
21:45:08scorche|shunpaidbill: the 2nd and 3rd gen versions
21:45:11_ntsnits on MSC
21:45:23LambdaCalculus37So go ahead and start the installation, then.
21:45:35MarcGuay_ntsn: If you right-click on the first Sansa drive do you have options or is it restricted?
21:45:39_ntsni want to unplug it first to make sure of some things..
21:45:43bluebrotheryou should be able to eject it using the "safely remove" icon in the systray. If not you have a windows problem ;-)
21:45:59_ntsn"the drive H is currently in use..."
21:46:02bluebrother(but it happens to me every now and then that I need to use that icon several times before it works)
21:46:12_ntsni dont have windows problem, even that this is a modified windows
21:46:29bluebrothercheck if there is an explorer / whatever window open that could hold file handles on the drive.
21:46:38_ntsnim not copying and nothing holds it..
21:47:06bluebrotherin most cases it works if you simply wait a bit. Otherwise, try the sysinternals tools to find the offending process.
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21:47:25_ntsnim going through the proccesses list..
21:47:33MarcGuayIt's possible to change the policy of the drive to "Optimized for quick removal" so you don't have to go through the safely-remove business every time.
21:48:49_ntsnit doesnt bother me
21:48:54_ntsnive just ejected it
21:49:34_ntsnwell lets start with the installation, im plugging it in
21:49:41_ntsnits on MSC mode
21:50:02_ntsnive just executed the rbutil
21:50:06_ntsnand it alerts:
21:50:27_ntsnyour configuration is invalid this is most likely due to...
21:50:32bluebrother"Configuration invalid" :)
21:50:44_ntsnwhats now?
21:50:52*bluebrother programmed this dialog and knows its content
21:51:00_ntsnhh :D
21:51:09_ntsnblue - i should okay it?
21:51:20pixelmabluebrother: there's a long example line in the shortcuts plugin section (the last) which doesn't break nicely (if at all) in the pdf. I could just force it on a new line if I make it a new paragraph but maybe there's a cleaner solution... would be nice if you could take a look. :)
21:51:22bluebrotherwell, as the dialog tells: go to the configuration (will be opened automatically) and set it up correctly
21:51:33_ntsnit opened
21:51:45bluebrotherwhich in most cases means you just need to make use of the "autodetect" button
21:52:25_ntsni click the autodetect and it pops:"couldnt detect mountpoint
21:52:38_ntsni have selected sansa E200
21:53:16_ntsnand about the drive letter: i have 2 letters when i plugg in my sansa:
21:53:27_ntsnthe first is I which is name is
21:53:28_ntsnRemovable Disk
21:53:29bluebrotherwell, use the "browse" button right of the mountpoint entry
21:53:39_ntsnand the second is H which is name is:
21:53:39_ntsnSansa e260
21:53:42bluebrotheryou have a micro SD card in the player?
21:53:47_ntsnwhich of those i have to select?
21:53:51_ntsni have NO microsd card
21:53:58domonokyunpaidbill: only on first generation nanos
21:54:14bluebrotherinteresting. Is H: the drive you put your music on? Then select that.
21:54:21*domonoky is a bit late :-)
21:54:34bluebrotherdomonoky: getting old? ;-)
21:54:52bluebrotherpixelma: checking
21:54:57_ntsni put my music on H
21:55:18bluebrotherthen select H:
21:55:18_ntsni have selected drive H and sansa e200
21:55:20_ntsnwhats next?
21:55:37bluebrotherconfirm the changed settings ...
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21:55:48*bluebrother wonders if _ntsn uses a GUI the first time
21:56:01_ntsnumm blue
21:56:11_ntsnim usualy not uses gui's,
21:56:17_ntsnbut there are other issues
21:56:21BigBambibluebrother: That would be odd indeed if someone were cli competent but couldn't work out a GUI :)
21:56:25_ntsni will explain it to you later ;)
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21:56:41bluebrotherlet me guess ... "Network error"?
21:57:01_ntsnsurprisingly - no :D
21:57:15_ntsnim selecting complete installation
21:57:23_ntsndo you really blabla?
21:57:26_ntsnokay it?
21:57:31bluebrotherwell, then it should be quite straightforward
21:57:49_ntsnwel umm
21:57:56_ntsnwhere i should go in this gui
21:57:59bluebrotherif not installation will get cancelled (can't think of anything else that would make sense in that case)
21:58:03_ntsncomplete installation?
21:58:19bluebrotherif you want everything (including fonts, doom, etc).
21:58:20 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (" ajax IRC Client")
21:58:26BigBambiIf you want a full installation, which I'm assuming you do
21:58:26_ntsnthats intresting..
21:58:40_ntsni have just entered the full instalation
21:58:40*domonoky guesses... doom :-)
21:58:44bluebrothersmall installation leaves out optional stuff. But you can install that later using the other tabs.
21:58:46_ntsnand surprisingly (really surprisngly)
21:58:57BigBambi_ntsn: you don't need to tell us absolutely everything
21:59:01_ntsnerror: NO SANSA FOUND!
21:59:11BigBambihave you got admin/root rights?
21:59:22_ntsnbambi: this is an interesting case :D i have to tell you ;)
21:59:37pixelmais someone with a beast around?
21:59:39_ntsnim the only user on this machine and im pretty sure that i have admin rights :D
21:59:44BigBambipixelma: yes
21:59:46bluebrotherinteresting. This shouldn't happen if autodetection figured the correct player
21:59:52_ntsnOperating System: WinXP Professional 5.1 SP1 (Build #2600)
21:59:57pixelmaBigBambi: ever tried the calculator?
22:00:08BigBambipixelma: nope, but I can do if you would like :)
22:00:10 Quit pabs (Remote closed the connection)
22:00:14_ntsnim running on winxp sp1 pro
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22:00:21_ntsnit should make some difference?
22:00:47_ntsnso blue
22:00:59_ntsnwhat do you think?
22:01:18BigBambi_ntsn: If you want people to get hilighted whn you say their name (and therefore notice you said something), you need to use their full name
22:01:26bluebrotherpixelma: you could reword that line like the examples in the wps tags chapter. I.e. a new paragraph "example: <foo>"
22:01:52_ntsnbelieve me that i know this, i dont want to interupt
22:02:07BigBambi_ntsn: don't worry
22:02:09_ntsnso bluebrother - any ideas?
22:02:13bluebrother_ntsn: please try the "Installation" tab
22:02:16pixelmaBigBambi: I'd just like an opinion on why selecting a number is on "menu" and whether anything speaks against putting it on "select", thanks :)
22:02:38BigBambipixelma: On select please
22:02:52bluebrotheruse the "Bootloader" button first. We had issues with automatic installation in the past (but those should be fixed −− probably there is still something wrong :o )
22:02:52_ntsnjust for general info: ive open the root of my sansa and found ./.rockbox
22:02:56_ntsnbut its empty
22:03:01BigBambipixelma: I just spent a minute pressing all the buttons trying to figure out how to select :)
22:03:06pixelmabluebrother: thanks, will take a look
22:03:28*bluebrother just got hilighted
22:03:49_ntsnim getting to the installation tab, but first - i think that more problems will pop up soon, there is a way to backup this sansa on my windows?
22:04:37 Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat")
22:04:37BigBambiI assume you already have a music backup
22:04:45_ntsn(i guess my tweeked winxp is making some noises..)
22:04:47bluebrothersansapatcher (which installs the bootloader and is utilized by Rockbox Utility) is usually safe. I don't know of any serious issues (except people using it in strange ways)
22:04:48 Join einhirn_ [0] (
22:04:48_ntsnyes i did
22:05:01bluebrotherfor the data partition it's up to you ;-)
22:05:07BigBambiAs for the system, unless you do something really silly that isn't in the manual, it will be fine - and even then it is recoverable
22:05:34_ntsnokay so im going back to the bootloader
22:05:54_ntsnagain: NO SANSA FOUND
22:06:05bluebrotherthat's really interesting.
22:06:28bluebrotherdid autodetection work or did you select the model yourself?
22:06:36_ntsnit did NOT
22:06:42_ntsni selected the model by my self
22:06:45_ntsnand the drive too
22:06:58BigBambiand you have it connected in MSC mode?
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22:07:12bluebrotherok. Then there is definitely an issue detecting the player. Autodetection should be able to detect the sansa in every case
22:07:16_ntsni will disconnect it to make sure of it
22:07:17*gevaerts has doubts about this administrative rights thing
22:07:29BigBambiIt is the only thing I can think of right now
22:07:41 Quit Buschel ()
22:07:44_ntsnwell umm im trying to disconnect it
22:07:52_ntsni guess the rbutil is still using it..
22:07:57_ntsni should kill this proccess?
22:08:10 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
22:08:36bluebrotheryou can close it, but it's not locking the device (unless writing data)
22:08:50_ntsnwhen its opened i cant log it off..
22:09:15_ntsnwell its on MSC
22:09:22_ntsni am plugging it back again
22:09:51bluebrothercan you please check if you have permissions for raw disc access? You need it for the bootloader
22:10:09_ntsnhow can i check this
22:10:23_ntsnnet user:
22:10:24_ntsnAdmin Administrator Amit
22:10:24_ntsnGuest HelpAssistant
22:10:29_ntsnim currently on
22:10:41_ntsnAdmin Administrator Amit
22:10:41_ntsnGuest HelpAssistant
22:10:48_ntsnC:\>net user admin
22:10:55 Join dr_eh [0] (
22:11:00_ntsnLocal Group Memberships *Administrators *Users
22:11:22BigBambi_ntsn: Please use something like for many line pastes
22:11:32_ntsnsorry for this, i will next time
22:11:42BigBambicheers :)
22:11:58_ntsnbluebrothers - how can i check those privileges?
22:12:58_ntsnbluebrother - how can i check those privileges?
22:13:29bluebrotherif you click on the start menu button, do you see your name?
22:13:39_ntsnyes i do..
22:13:53bluebrotherthen try "net user admin"
22:14:09_ntsnthats what i did
22:14:10bluebrotherand check for a line "Local Group Memberships"
22:14:17_ntsnC:\Program Files\Xscript_v10.0a>net user admin
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22:14:27_ntsnLocal Group Memberships *Administrators *Users
22:14:27_ntsnGlobal Group memberships *None
22:14:52_ntsni know i have triple check those rights for terminal services..
22:15:15_ntsnyou can treat it like a constant - i HAVE admin privileges ;)
22:15:19bluebrotherdo you have a hub between player and PC?
22:15:33bluebrotheror anything else but the stock cable?
22:15:46_ntsnnothing at all
22:15:56bluebrotherfront USB connector?
22:16:00_ntsnthis is a brand new (pretty old)
22:16:13_ntsnyes im plugging it with at the front pane
22:16:21bluebrotherok, please try one at the back.
22:16:28_ntsnjust a second
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22:19:29_ntsni have plugged it in again
22:19:32_ntsnwhats now
22:19:42bluebrothertry autodetection again.
22:19:56_ntsncould not...
22:20:01_ntsnit doesnt work
22:20:03 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")
22:20:18bluebrotherhmm. Now it's getting really strange. Can you check on a different PC?
22:20:37_ntsnstrange is good :)
22:20:48_ntsnlet me see if i can
22:21:03_ntsn(its 11:23PM in israel..)
22:21:04bluebrotherwell, there have been issues with semi-broken cables or front usb ports.
22:21:30bluebrotherbut as you talked about a modded windows this could also act up. At least I could imagine it ;-)
22:21:42_ntsnthats what i think is the problem
22:21:58_ntsnactually i have minified my winxp installation to 200mb :D
22:23:13_ntsni have another machine to check this on it
22:23:27_ntsnyou have an online pjirc or something? (i dont have irc there)
22:24:14bluebrotheror use
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22:26:00_ntsn2im on the other machine
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22:26:36bluebrotheryep. Any news?
22:27:23_ntsn2as the other machine - i have two drives: F and G
22:28:08pixelmathat sounds more correct - the second is the microSD slot, it's even present when there's no card inserted
22:29:05_ntsn2im exectuing the rbutil
22:29:08_ntsn2again, its sais
22:29:22_ntsn2configuration invalid blabla
22:29:29_ntsn2whats now bluebrother?
22:31:12_ntsn2well im selecting
22:31:22bluebrotherwell, it's unsurprising the configuration is missing. Please go to the configuration dialog and check if autodetection detects the correct player
22:31:26_ntsn2complete installation again
22:31:45_ntsn2and boom, no sansa found
22:31:58gevaerts_ntsn2: please try to keep sentences on one line
22:32:00_ntsn2it does NOT detects
22:32:30_ntsn2so im selecting sansa e200 and drive F
22:32:40bluebrotherok. Going through it again: you administrator on that machine and that wxp isn't modded?
22:32:41_ntsn2then get back to complete, and boom, no sansa found
22:32:51bluebrothersure. That's expected.
22:32:53_ntsn2this is winxp sp2
22:33:06_ntsn2and its not modded
22:33:09bluebrotherif autodetection doesn't find your player bootloader installation also won't do it.
22:33:15 Quit lolmaus ()
22:33:21_ntsn2an d as usual - administrator privileges
22:33:36_ntsn2so where we are going from here..
22:33:42scorche|sh_ntsn2: really now...please place complete thoughts on one line...the enter key is not a comma
22:33:43_ntsn2im starving for my rockbox :)
22:34:13scorche|shit makes things much harder to read andmake it harder for us to help you
22:34:19bluebrotherwell, in that case ... now going to the kitchen for some food? ;-)
22:34:31_ntsn2im understanding, i will keep it in lines
22:35:38_ntsn2umm feeding is not a part of my schedule right now (till it will work)
22:35:49_ntsn2any ideas from here?
22:36:01_ntsn2maybe it will help, the files on my sansa are:
22:36:18*bluebrother whispers "pastebin"
22:36:20gevaertsWould trying sansapatcher help give some indication on what is wrong ?
22:36:45_ntsn2./pmp_usb.ini ./version.sdk ./VERSION.TXT ./winamp_cache_0001.xml
22:36:51bluebrotherI don't think so but maybe it's worth a try. I don't think −−verbose works on sansapatcher
22:38:20bluebrotherhmm, Rockbox definitely lacks a bmp viewer.
22:39:06gevaertsIt has one. It's called the While Playing Screen ;)
22:39:23_ntsn2bootloader: the same thing..
22:39:32Lloreanbluebrother: Well there's Rockpaint though, right?
22:39:53pixelmaonly on colour targets
22:40:33bluebrotherI just started having bmp files on my player (first color target in my collection)
22:40:52_ntsn2bluebrother - i dont think this situation is windows dependence, im getting back to my primary machine (winxp sp1 modded)
22:40:56 Quit _ntsn2 ("PJIRC forever!")
22:41:17bluebrotherit's kinda interesting to see how fast the "disc" in a flash player is. No wonder all those sansa-kids forget the issues with hdd based players ...
22:42:13_ntsnI am back..
22:42:33 Quit Naked (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:42:58_ntsnblue - the flash is awsome thing.. i use it in some other things and its grea
22:43:02 Join Naked [0] (
22:44:05*bluebrother still likes the mini better
22:44:54*gevaerts wonders. Is there a lsusb like tool in windows ?
22:45:19bluebrotherhmm ... yep: usbview.exe. It's part of the DDK
22:45:50gevaertsMaybe that can show if this sansa at least has the expected ids
22:46:32_ntsnumm blue
22:46:59_ntsni have just went back from the kitchen with 2 icecold beers and some choclate
22:47:07_ntsnwhere we can go from here?
22:47:10_ntsnmanual installation?
22:49:13 Join bascule_on_forum [0] (n=586cc914@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:49:37_ntsni guess im alone here?
22:49:39leachim6If I wanted to make a plugin for rockbox ... how would I run it
22:49:48Llorean_ntsn: If neither sansapatcher nor rbutil can detect your player, you need to figure out what's different about it.
22:49:52leachim6could I run it from the data partition or would I have to reinstall rockbox
22:50:02scorche|sh_ntsn: you arent helping by doing that...
22:50:06Llorean_ntsn: But please, don't just ramble on to your self if nobody replies. Have some patience, not everyone can be here constantly
22:50:18_ntsnsorry for this
22:50:26bascule_on_forumIf anyone's looking for something to commit, my manual updates are ready here
22:50:30Lloreanleachim6: Plugins are compiled against Rockbox, so you'd need to update your build to the new one with the plugin
22:50:46 Join MethoS- [0] (
22:50:53_ntsnLlorean: my sansa is e2xx and the version is:
22:51:18Llorean_ntsn: I didn't ask for that information
22:51:28_ntsnumm maybe thats the differ
22:51:32LloreanI'm not volunteering to help you, I'm busy right now.
22:51:39LloreanI said *you* need to figure out what's different about it.
22:51:41_ntsnokay, thanks anyway
22:52:10leachim6Llorean, couldn't I write some sort of loader plugin that loads plugins from the data partition ?
22:52:59_ntsnscorche|sh - you are free to help? i think i know the problem
22:53:17bluebrother_ntsn: if you know the problem why not just name it?
22:53:26_ntsncause im not sure this is it
22:53:26scorche|sh_ntsn: i am not...i am at work...if you know the problem then just say it and work on fixing it
22:53:44bluebrotherwhy didn't I build my usb id tool against release dlls? grrr.
22:54:00Lloreanleachim6: Rockbox exists on the data partition. You just need to unzip a new to the player, how is that more difficult than copying over a plugin? Perhaps you should investigate how rockbox plugins work first?
22:54:07_ntsni have just found out that after running the complete, the big bang happens (sansa not found), then i open the root of my sansa and there is a .rockbox folder
22:54:25pixelmabascule_on_forum: maybe I'll take a look tomorrow or so. Currently working on updates to plugin button tables, want to get that in first
22:54:28_ntsnbut its empty, maybe it has no permission to write things into it?
22:54:40Llorean_ntsn: I thought you were running it as admin
22:54:50_ntsnyes i do
22:54:51pixelmabascule_on_forum: is there something plugin related in your patches too?
22:54:57*BigBambi didn't think fat32 had permissions anyway
22:55:19Bagder_ntsn: file system messed up? out of disk space?
22:55:25_ntsni see that the folder exists, but its empty, it may have only writing permission?
22:55:35bluebrotheryou might want to run chkdsk /f on that drive
22:55:37LloreanBagder: He can't install the bootloader, the tools aren't detecting his sansa
22:55:37_ntsnonly creating folder permission*
22:55:43gevaertsOn fat32 ?
22:55:49Bagder_ntsn: v2 sansa?
22:55:52advcomp2019_ntsn, i am wondering what sansa firmware you have installed
22:55:59_ntsnbagder - i have no idea
22:56:01bluebrotherFAT32 only has a read only attribute. No permissions.
22:56:15Bagder_ntsn: what's the OF version of it?
22:56:26_ntsnadvcomp2019 - i have NOT updated my sansa firmware since i bought it, the current version of my original sansa firmware is:
22:56:27bluebrotherrbutil should be able notifying the user of a v2 ... if autodetection is used.
22:56:40bascule_on_forumpixelma: thanks. No, none of my updates are plugin-related
22:56:41bluebrotherof course it's possible there are PIDs missing
22:56:51PaulJamBagder: no, he posted the fw version earlier. it's a v1.
22:56:59Bagderah, ok I missed that
22:57:00_ntsnmy version: 01.02.18A
22:57:13Bagder_ntsn: you tried using other usb ports in your computer?
22:57:18BigBambi_ntsn: You worked out 1h40 ago that it was v1 with LambdaCalculus
22:57:26_ntsnat first i used the front-pane usb's
22:57:36_ntsnthen i tried the ones at the back of the case
22:57:46leachim6Llorean, what rockbox files are on the data partition I couldn't find any (link please)
22:57:57_ntsnboth gave the same error "sansa not found" and i couldnt detect it with the rbutil
22:58:08Bagder_ntsn: and does your OS detect the device and list it in some list somewhere of usb devices?
22:58:31BigBambileachim6: There is a .rockbox folder that contains them all
22:58:44Lloreanleachim6: All of them but the bootloader, in a standard install...
22:58:51_ntsnyes it does, i can see my device at the usb devices
22:59:04_ntsni can transfer music and others
22:59:43BigBambi_ntsn: And it actually appears as a drive, not a folder?
22:59:55BigBambibascule_on_forum: you want a / in front of that quit :)
22:59:56 Quit bascule_on_forum ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)")
23:00:01_ntsnit apears as drive, not a folder
23:00:25_ntsnits listed under "devices with removable storage" on "my computer"
23:01:04_ntsnthere are 2 drives - someone said some time ago that the second is for the microsf
23:01:31 Quit dr_eh (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:02:06_ntsnmaybe its important: i bought this device about 2 or 3 years ago (israels dutyfree)
23:05:35leachim6how can I mount my iPod under linux without being root
23:06:19BigBambileachim6: That isn't really a rockbox question
23:06:42_ntsnwell i think i ran out of ideas
23:06:54leachim6Nobody else knows
23:06:54_ntsnanyone have any leading?
23:07:00leachim6I'm sure some of you guys know
23:07:09_ntsnmaybe the manual way?
23:07:12bluebrotherleachim6: that depends on your distribution.
23:07:21 Join kretender [0] (
23:07:48BigBambileachim6: Yes, but it isn't a rockbox question
23:07:50_ntsnso umm bluebrother what is your suggestion from the current situation? (im running out of beers :D)
23:07:55BigBambiThis isn't a general support channel
23:08:08BigBambi_ntsn: please, people will answer if they know
23:08:17 Part kretender
23:08:32_ntsnsorry im just curious about this
23:08:52_ntsna friend of mine told me that it takes 3 minutes (which turned to 2 hours..)
23:09:20_ntsnbigbambi - you think that installing with the manual way would solve this?
23:09:26BigBambi_ntsn: Sure, but this is a logged support and development channel. We would rather not have the logs filled up with people rambling to themselves
23:09:36bluebrotherI needed 2 minutes when I installed a few days back.
23:09:42BigBambi_ntsn: I thought you had already tried sansapatcher?
23:10:16_ntsnwhat is sansapatcher?
23:10:17bluebrotheryou can try running sansapatcher manually (hint: the manual tells this) but I don't think this will make a difference −− Rockbox Utility uses sansapatcher itself
23:10:34 Quit einhirn_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:11:06_ntsnso we are stuck..
23:11:25bluebrotheryou can still try it.
23:11:28BigBambi_ntsn: try sansapatcher, you never know
23:11:55_ntsni will try the manual way
23:12:11_ntsnwhat order of acts i have to follow?
23:12:14pixelmabluebrother: does using \begin{example} need something special, I keep getting "FancyVerb Error - Empty verbatim environment" though I copy-pasted it from the advanced topics part where it works
23:12:21BigBambi_ntsn: please read the manual
23:12:55_ntsnim reading
23:13:12BigBambi_ntsn: You don't need to tell us every little thing you are doing
23:13:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:13:40bluebrotherpixelma: there shouldn't be anything special
23:15:29pixelmaok, trying some things
23:15:39_ntsnbigbambi - there is a binary win32 version of sansapatcher out there?
23:15:50BigBambiyes, the manual links to it. Please read it
23:15:57_ntsnoh i find it nvm
23:16:29leachim6so pretty much everything for rockbox is included right
23:16:34leachim6there are no extras
23:16:44BigBambiYou will want to install the fonts pack
23:16:44leachim6in the way of apps and codecs and plugins and such
23:16:48leachim6I got it
23:16:52BigBambiin that case, no
23:16:53gevaertsWhat would be the point of extras ?
23:16:58leachim6what is everyone's preferred theme ?
23:17:14BigBambileachim6: just look at them and decide for yourself
23:17:36leachim6can rockbox play mp4 audio ?
23:18:46BigBambi_ntsn: If you have another question, just ask
23:19:38_ntsni have just copied the .rockbox, now im with the sansapatcher
23:19:53_ntsni think it detected it correctly, im attaching the lines from it:
23:20:25BigBambiWhat is the question?
23:20:29 Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
23:20:30scorche|sh_ntsn: how many times must i ask you to not use the enter key so much and form complete thoughts on *one* line?
23:20:37_ntsndoes it detecting it right?
23:21:01 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:21:03BigBambiffs, it says [INFO] e200 found - disk device 1
23:21:19 Join faemir [0] (
23:22:43_ntsnwell thanks, i have just rebooted my sansa and it seems to work, the rockbox loaded successfuly
23:22:58_ntsnim still intresting what was the problem
23:23:02 Join Mathiasdm [0] (
23:23:10_ntsnbut as long as it working - it does not matter
23:23:28BigBambiyes, it is very odd that rbutil didn't work as it uses the same code as sansapatcher
23:23:38BigBambiand it worked fine for me for instance
23:24:28_ntsnbluebrother, BigBambi, gevaerts, LambdaCalculus37 thanks for the help guys, im really apperciate it, keep up the good work :)
23:24:38BigBambiyou are welcome
23:25:23PaulJammaybe an old version of rbutil?
23:25:36 Join arohtar [0] (
23:28:37 Quit Mathiasdm ("Invisible Internet Project:")
23:31:58pixelmabluebrother: turns out, that the ! in the end of the line is the problem
23:33:39 Nick knitt1 is now known as knittl (n=knittl@
23:37:38 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
23:38:46 Quit faemir (Connection timed out)
23:40:34 Quit leachim6 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:40:56 Join knitt1 [0] (n=knittl@
23:44:09 Quit BlakeJohnson86 ("Leaving.")
23:44:37saratogawe should consider getting a tech support IRC channel
23:45:12 Join BlakeJohnson86 [0] (
23:45:29saratogai'm tired of having 5 page long "how do i format my ipod" conversations in the logs
23:45:34saratogathey're dull and they obscure useful things
23:45:35_ntsnumm just to make sure: where i should put my MP3?
23:47:17bluebrothersomewhere where you find it. For example, not under the bed.
23:48:09 Join BlakeJohnson87 [0] (
23:48:17bluebrothersaratoga: I agree with you.
23:48:18_ntsnbluebrother: thanks for the help, finally i tried the manual installation and the sansapatcher worked!
23:48:34_ntsnin which directory i should put my MP3's?
23:48:39 Quit ender` (" The two aspiring triangle peaks arching into an abstracted ‘M’ typified the progressive leadership-minded outlook of the co")
23:48:59Bagder_ntsn: anywhere you like
23:49:01bluebrotheras I said: not below the bed. Really, please RTFM first. The FAQ is also a good start ...
23:49:17_ntsni am reading :D
23:51:43 Join shotofadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds)
23:52:04 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
23:52:13*shotofadds has good news and bad.
23:52:22scorche|shsaratoga: bluebrother: really?...last time i brought this up, it was thrown down quite quickly ;)
23:52:36shotofaddsthe bad: I just deafened myself
23:52:54*Bagder makes the drumroll
23:53:05shotofaddsoi... hold yer knickers on
23:53:10shotofaddsthe good: my D2 just played the first 10s of MGMT - Kids :-)
23:53:22shotofaddsat FULL BLAST through headphones :(
23:53:22BigBambicongrats :)
23:53:26*scorche|sh awaits a mail on the list
23:53:35bluebrotherwe need a Rockbox song for first plays ;-)
23:53:51bluebrotherGentlemen, we have ... Kids playing?
23:53:59BigBambiBagder, LinusN and Zagor need to record a little anthem :)
23:54:11scorche|shbluebrother: the badger badger badger "song"? =P
23:54:24shotofaddsheh.. there's a band called Rockbox isn't there? we should use them...
23:54:33bluebrotherhmm, is there some musician around at DCE? Make a DCE song :D
23:54:36 Quit BlakeJohnson86 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:54:45scorche|shmaybe we can all sing along to some monty python song and have petur use his taping rig
23:54:46shotofaddsscorche|sh: a mail will come when I've figured out /why/ it works :p
23:54:54bluebrother(sound of typing ;-)
23:54:57shotofaddsand committed stuff, fo course
23:55:25 Quit knittl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:55:27*bluebrother looks at the VirtualAlloc call in ipodio-w32.c and wonders why / how it works
23:56:34shotofaddsOnly problem is I'm not sure how useful sound is, without a reliable filesystem driver...
23:57:20shotofaddsspeaking of which.... preglow, any progress with the SD stuff?
23:58:10scorche|shhrm...why is "Release a new VMWare development image?" on the DCE discussion agenda?...havent i already decided i was going to make one?
23:58:36Bagderand what's there to discuss about it?
23:58:51bluebrotherseems the wiki doesn't know about your decision (yet) ;-)
23:58:54scorche|shindeed...nothing beyond what should be in a list on the wiki page

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