#rockbox 2008-07-01

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#rockbox log for 2008-07-01

00:00:34		Quit dabujo ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )")
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00:24:54	tlhiv_laptop	is there a way to backup the original firmware before installing rockbox?
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00:26:05	advcomp2019	tlhiv_laptop, what player are you talking about.. most of them you can redownload the firmware for
00:26:20	tlhiv_laptop	Sandisk e250
00:26:23	tlhiv_laptop	Sansa
00:26:56	xxbatman94xx	hey does anyone know if the current build for the ipod photo is still bugged
00:27:22	advcomp2019	do not worry.. you can redownload the firmware off of rockbox or many other site
00:27:29		Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
00:29:25	tlhiv_laptop	advcomp2019: i know you probably don't have this specific model, but you would think that rockbox would be "better" than most default firmwares, esp. for the Sandisk Sansa e250?
00:30:26	advcomp2019	i have a sansa e280r and i like rockbox more then the OF
00:30:39	MarcGuay	tlhiv_laptop: It's harmless to try it. You might want to read this page: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox.
00:30:55	tlhiv_laptop	MarcGuay: thanks ... reading now
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00:31:15	soap	there is no need to "back up" the original firmware, as it is not removed. tlhiv_laptop - Rockbox modifies the Sansa bootloader (the bit of code which launches the Sansa original firmware) so that Rockbox loads by default instead of the original firmware (OF). All you need to do is remove the Rockbox bootloader and your player will behave as it did when stock.
00:31:48	tlhiv_laptop	soap: beautiful
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00:32:45	MarcGuay	tlhiv_laptop: It's also possible to dual boot so you can choose which one you want to use every time you turn it on.
00:32:53	tlhiv_laptop	i have never had an portable "mp3 player" and i'm a tech geek ... i just bought the e250 for my car, and i feel like i'm finally entering the 21st century
00:33:07	tlhiv_laptop	MarcGuay: cool
00:33:18	soap	just to be sure, tlhiv_laptop... you do have the first generation e250?
00:33:19	tlhiv_laptop	doesn't use GRUB does it ;)
00:33:21	MarcGuay	tlhiv_laptop: I finally dumped the backpack-full-of-CDs look last fall, myself.
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00:33:38	tlhiv_laptop	soap: i haven't received it yet −−> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855125011
00:33:57	advcomp2019	tlhiv_laptop, it could be a v2
00:34:19	tlhiv_laptop	MarcGuay: well i just didn't listen to much but talk radio in the car ... but the kids are constantly bothering me about music in the car ;)
00:34:27	soap	Without following that link, unless it is refurbished the odds are very strong it is NOT a V1 e200
00:34:37	tlhiv_laptop	so i rewired my car stereo to provide an aux. input and removed my tape
00:35:04	tlhiv_laptop	not being a v1 means what, specifically?
00:35:05	advcomp2019	tlhiv_laptop, one thing that gives it away is "Supports microSD and microSDHC cards"
00:35:08	tlhiv_laptop	that rockbox won't work?
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00:35:26	MarcGuay	tlhiv_laptop: Correct.
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00:35:37	soap	tlhiv_laptop, not being a version 1 (V1) means that it is completely different hardware than the original e200 and not hardware on which Rockbox currently runs.
00:35:40	tlhiv_laptop	yikes ... any plans for support?
00:35:43	MarcGuay	tlhiv_laptop: Have you ordered it already?
00:35:55	tlhiv_laptop	yes ... earlier today ... already shipped
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00:36:05	tlhiv_laptop	might even be here as early as tomorrow but more likely in 2 days
00:36:31		Quit ender` (" I will be neither chivalrous nor sporting. If I have an unstoppable superweapon, I will use it as early and as often as pos")
00:36:34	MarcGuay	tlhiv_laptop: There's a thread in the forums to discuss hacking it if you want to help out.
00:36:55	*	Nico_P has a preliminary fix for FS #8999
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00:38:24	MarcGuay	tlhiv_laptop: In case you have trouble finding it: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.0.
00:38:44	tlhiv_laptop	i'll read through this thread now
00:39:46	tlhiv_laptop	i did read on the customer reviews at Newegg that several said they were using Rockbox
00:40:21	krazykit	tlhiv_laptop, yes, but it's a silent upgrade; ordering new may still give you a v2
00:40:49	tlhiv_laptop	it's probably "surely" instead of "may" ;)
00:41:28	advcomp2019	most new ones are v2 unless they have some hidden somewhere
00:41:56	tlhiv_laptop	since it will be exclusively for the car, i really need an interface that can be navigated easily while driving
00:42:01	tlhiv_laptop	OF or rockbox
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00:43:55	conley	I have a gigabeatS and I'm installing rockbox. I just used the sendfirm utility and it sort of worked but I got several errors like: usb_clear_halt() on INTERRUPT endpoint: Protocol error
00:44:26	conley	also, the gigabeat says: "firmware update or restoration required. Please wait."
00:44:44	conley	Can anyone help? Should I really wait? Nothing is happening.
00:45:20	Nico_P	conley: the errors at the end of the sendfirm process are normal
00:45:42	conley	thanks, are you familiar with the message on the gigabeat?
00:45:44	Nico_P	they appear because the device restarts abruptly
00:45:53	conley	and are you familiar with the S
00:46:03	Nico_P	is there a triangle with an error code in it?
00:46:08	conley	yes, 3
00:46:09	Nico_P	i.e. a number
00:46:30	Nico_P	IIRC that means you need to connect the gigabeat and use sendfirm again
00:47:04	conley	ok, it's been connected the whole time...should I unconnect and reconnect, and try again?
00:47:12	conley	or just leave it like it is and try again?
00:47:32	Nico_P	disconnect it, then reconnect it and send the firmware again
00:47:36	Nico_P	it should restart and boot
00:47:41	conley	ok, should I turn it off or anything?
00:47:47	Nico_P	no need
00:47:53	Nico_P	it would just go back to that screen
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00:49:04	tlhiv_laptop	krazykit: how will i know when i receive it whether it's v1 or v2?
00:49:07	conley	I can't seem to get it to go off that screen
00:49:13	conley	it won't turn off or anything
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00:49:21	krazykit	tlhiv_laptop, you'll turn it on and check the firmware version
00:49:28	tlhiv_laptop	;)
00:49:55	soap	If it is a V1 I'll eat krazykit's hat.
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00:50:10	Nico_P	conley: even with sendfirm?
00:50:37	Nico_P	then try rebooting
00:50:38	conley	yea, I ran the command again, it says there's no device to connect to...
00:50:53	tlhiv_laptop	well it'll be a couple of days, but we'll see
00:50:57	Nico_P	conley: that's because you need to disconnect and reconnect
00:51:00	tlhiv_laptop	either way, for $33, i can't complain
00:51:05	conley	Nico_P: I did
00:51:11	Nico_P	ah, then maybe try rebooting
00:51:19	conley	rebooting what?
00:51:22	conley	the gigabeat?
00:51:24	Nico_P	the S
00:51:25	Nico_P	yes
00:51:26	conley	it won't turn off
00:51:32	Nico_P	use the battery switch
00:51:39	conley	k
00:51:49	conley	(forgot about that...I don't use this thing)
00:52:06	conley	(I've been hanging out on #gigabeat for a year and a half waiting to use rockbox on it)
00:52:11	Nico_P	you'll need it if you start messing with rockbox on the S, it's still an early port ;)
00:52:13	MU{lappy}	you can't really turn OF "off"
00:52:30	MU{lappy}	except via the battery switch
00:52:40	MU{lappy}	also, it needs to boot OF to charge
00:53:22	conley	I rebooted, it went to the same error screen, I connected and sendfirm is telling me there are no devices
00:53:41	MU{lappy}	iirc error #3 is the reformat one?
00:53:48	conley	ah, although the error code is 2 now
00:53:51	MU{lappy}	i believe it goes through several steps
00:53:56	Nico_P	conley: you need to wait for a bit
00:54:05	Nico_P	wait until it tells you to connect it
00:54:09	conley	ok
00:54:09	MU{lappy}	yeah, it won't work w/ sendfirm until it tells you to connect it and update firmware
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00:54:43	MU{lappy}	and in my experience, after a reformat it will also not boot rockbox w/ the bootloader "file not found" error until it's been synced w/ WMP :/
00:54:45	conley	it gave me error code 2 "Update or restore ...using PC..."
00:54:52	conley	should I do it now?
00:54:59	conley	ah, ok I should
00:55:06	MU{lappy}	conley: if it's telling you to, yeah, that's when.
00:55:24	conley	aha, it's working.....or was....now there's nothing
00:55:32	MU{lappy}	"nothing"?
00:55:38	conley	black screen
00:55:44	conley	like it's turned off or something
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00:55:56	conley	there was small white text saying something on black
00:55:58	MU{lappy}	lol, vi humor ;)
00:56:08	conley	in my joy, I didn't see what it said
00:56:17	MU{lappy}	oh, oh, is it still plugged in?
00:56:20	conley	clicked the power butten again
00:56:24	conley	yea, it is
00:56:25	MU{lappy}	i think that may not be an error at all
00:56:26	conley	can it not be?
00:56:36	conley	should I unplug it?
00:56:48	conley	the white text said "bootloader usb mode"
00:56:48	MU{lappy}	push anything, d-pad should work, and see if you see anything on the screen then
00:57:02	conley	yea, I do
00:57:03	Nico_P	is the hols switch on?
00:57:04	MU{lappy}	yeah, it'll sleep the display after a bit in bootloader usb mode
00:57:09	conley	it just says bootloader usb mode
00:57:19	Nico_P	is usb still connected?
00:57:21	conley	yes
00:57:24	MU{lappy}	conley: yeah, it'll try to boot rockbox if you unplug it ;D
00:57:25	conley	disconnect?
00:57:26	Nico_P	then that's why
00:57:46	Nico_P	disconnect it qnd it should attempt to boot
00:57:58	conley	blah, error #3 again
00:58:02	Nico_P	:/
00:58:18	*	Nico_P has to reset his internet connection, back in a sec
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00:58:54	MU{lappy}	that's... odd. almost like something messed up the drive contents after the first restore finished :/
00:59:07	MU{lappy}	ok, i need to be family dude now. later.
00:59:18	conley	when I disconnected, it said "file not found"
00:59:22	conley	bye
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01:01:14	conley	error #1 now....have I hit them all yet?
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01:38:35	MarcGuay	kugel: Are you involved with the BMP-resize patch?
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01:47:51	MU{lappy}	conley: no, you're missing #5, which afaict is HDD failure, or failure to communicate w/ the HDD
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01:49:02	MU{lappy}	"file not found" means either that rockbox is not installed (ie only installed bootloader) or that for some reason rb bootloader can't read the .rockbox dir. it might do to run a filesystem check while in USB bootloader mode, but my file not found errors only ever seemed to clear by syncing via WMP.
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01:52:02	kugel	MarcGuay: Yea, a bit
01:52:44	kugel	MarcGuay: Why are you asking?
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03:16:38	assumedalive	hi everyone, this is just a niggling issue i've had_forever_ with rockbox on 5.5g ipods - sometimes, about every 1/3 of the time, it won't turn on by pressing the menu button. occasionally it flashes a battery icon extremely briefly. it always turns on properly after holding down menu/select to reset it
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03:17:28	assumedalive	ive had this issue for over a year, when i asked about it originally there wasn't a fix
03:17:35	assumedalive	i just wanted to know if that had changed
03:17:49	assumedalive	(yes i am using the latest version)
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03:25:04	JdGordon	MarcGuay: hey, you round?
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03:27:37	JdGordon	MarcGuay: so i dont forget later.... can you not link to that "ready to commit blaa" thread please? the syntax in the first post is wrong.. please link to the wiki instead
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04:12:12	xxbatman94xx	hey does anyone kno if the current build is still buggy? for the ipod photo
04:12:21	xxbatman94xx	erm bugged
04:13:33	JdGordon	nothing ha been commited towards fixing it yet....
04:13:44	xxbatman94xx	okay thxs
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06:03:26	Dangalario	Hi Is there any unsupported rockbox for v2?
06:03:31	Dangalario	sansa
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06:18:23	advcomp2019	Dangalario, you need to read the forums for info on the sansa v2
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06:23:48	fox_	im looking for a status on the current build of the Gigabeat S port. All the information i'm finding seems to be at least a year old
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06:43:23	MarcGuay	kugel: It's something I'd like to see in SVN and was just wondering what's holding it back from inclusion.
06:43:32	MarcGuay	JdGordon: No problem.
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07:46:17	houbysoft	hi. Hey could someone please help me? I want to convert videos for playing them on my iPod nano, so I created a shell script that uses ffmpeg. It worked fine on windows, but now I'm in ubuntu, and if I launch it it tells me "Unknown codec : libmp3lame". I tried also the mp3 codec, didn't work. How do I install that codec? thnx
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07:56:16	J-23	houbysoft: hmm.
07:56:26	J-23	have you installed lame?
07:56:53	houbysoft	sudo apt-get install lame?
07:57:18	houbysoft	now installing
07:57:28		Quit midgey ()
07:59:54	houbysoft	hm.. still says unknown codec :(
08:00
08:00:31	houbysoft	J-23 : still says unknown codec
08:01:42	J-23	try mp3
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08:04:42	houbysoft	J-23 : says unsupported codec for output stream
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08:05:25	J-23	;/
08:05:43	J-23	so you need to wait for somebody who better knows ffmpeg
08:07:28	J-23	or to ask at #ffmpeg
08:08:29	houbysoft	ok
08:08:33	houbysoft	thnx anyways
08:13:12	GodEater	or better still, ask in #ubuntu
08:14:31	houbysoft	ok
08:14:40	houbysoft	noone answers at ffmpeg :D
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08:56:34	JdGordon	anyone know who our ac3 "maintaner" is?
08:57:15	Bagderr	Lear
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08:57:32	Bagderr	I think
08:58:05	JdGordon	there are 2 (i thought more) ac3 bugs in the tracker which would be nice to have fixed or closed before a release...
08:58:19	JdGordon	or at least looked at
08:59:21	Llorean	Go ahead and put "Due in 3.0" on them.
09:00
09:00:00	Llorean	For now that can be a way to nominate them for special interest at least, and then we can decide on priorities for everything anyone things should be due in it.
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09:00:48	JdGordon	well.. they arent showstopper...
09:02:30	Llorean	Yeah, but "Due in 3.0" should be everything we want to see fixed in 3.0
09:02:34	Llorean	"Critical" can be showstoppers
09:02:46	Llorean	And the other priorities can just be sorted out later.
09:03:15	Llorean	The plus side of that is that everything marked as "Due in 3.0" will help make it easier to create a KNOWN_ISSUES list
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09:06:21	markun	Llorean: can you create the new forum section for feature requests/discussions?
09:07:45	Llorean	Are we using a forum section?
09:08:46	JdGordon	we should...
09:08:48	markun	or add it to "Rockbox Development"?
09:09:03	markun	well, I don't know
09:09:22	JdGordon	yeah, bung it above "getting started"
09:09:46	JdGordon	the forum, not the installation section
09:10:22	Llorean	I was gonna put it before WPS/Customization
09:10:25	Llorean	As "Feature Ideas"
09:10:35	Llorean	If something's actually being _developed_ it should go on the patch tracker and be discussed there
09:10:56	markun	also sounds good
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09:11:14	Llorean	And "Feature Ideas" rather than "Feature Requests" helps keep it clear it's just talk, and not to expect anything of it.
09:11:37	JdGordon	isnt that section more for support?
09:11:42	JdGordon	for sure
09:12:21	JdGordon	with a nice sticky saying "developrs arnt nessacarily watching this section... if you see something you like the fastest way to get it done is do it yourself"
09:12:55	Llorean	Done
09:13:00	JdGordon	I like it next to new ports because both are more for possible development, not for actual development
09:13:18	Llorean	New Ports should have actual development discussion though
09:13:24	Llorean	"Feature Ideas" should be a "just talk" forum.
09:13:36	Llorean	Much less "serious" in my mind, since 95% of it will probably be ignored by nearly everyone.
09:14:06	Llorean	There's going to be a _lot_ of "Genesis emulator" "Toaster Emulator" etc.
09:14:15	JdGordon	I guess it will be the same as new ports where once something starts working on the port it does turn into a real dev thread
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09:14:27	Llorean	It shouldn't ever turn into a dev thread
09:14:31	Llorean	Once work starts, they can post a patch.
09:14:43	Llorean	And development discussion should take place on the tracker for the patch.
09:15:00	JdGordon	no... once there is a patch that is almost commitable it shuold be posted... not before
09:15:23	JdGordon	depending on the activity, it might help to add a sticky for common requests there also
09:15:23	Llorean	I dunno about that.
09:15:51	Llorean	I mean, there's some plugins that have a lot of work left to be done (the infoNES port for example) but still should be up there in case someone else can work on it.
09:16:08	Llorean	It defeats the purpose of having a patch tracker if we ask people not to post to it until after the patch is "finished" or "nearly finished"
09:17:02	JdGordon	well... it would be nicer if the tracker was really only used for people to put patches that are ready to commit... we would have less to look through then
09:17:25	Bagderr	we could use some of the options to better signal "done" to us
09:17:28	JdGordon	once its on the tracker it would get more attention from us
09:17:29	Bagderr	I mean some of the fields
09:17:31	Llorean	Yeah
09:17:35	Llorean	A "done" signal would be great
09:17:54	Llorean	You can mark a task as X% complete can't you?
09:17:55	JdGordon	Llorean: by "done" i mean, it works and is ready for review...
09:17:59	Llorean	JdGordon: Exactly
09:18:30	Llorean	Patches can be posted in any state, and somehow we let the author flag a patch he feels is "committable" so that someone who just wants to review nearly done ones can find them better.
09:18:31	JdGordon	so prelim testing would stay with interested users in the forum thread
09:18:49	Llorean	That's useless.
09:19:00	Llorean	If you suggest that, it's just going to split things more.
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09:19:34	*	GodEater doesn't really understand alex's issues with the command line version of rbutil
09:19:43	GodEater	surely if he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to use it ?
09:19:44	Llorean	The patch tracker has a lot of organizational options a forum doesn't
09:19:54	GodEater	and what on EARTH does he mean by "braile input" ?!
09:19:58	Llorean	GodEater: Well, it's going to get more usability focus than the GUI version.
09:20:05	Llorean	But I suspect that he hasn't tried it.
09:20:15	Llorean	And I have no idea about the braille input talk.
09:20:26	pixelma	Llorean: welcome back. Have you seen this thread http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17458.0 ?
09:20:29	GodEater	I've never heard of braille input
09:20:45	Llorean	pixelma: Yes.
09:20:51	Llorean	Haven't been able to test mine further.
09:21:06	pixelma	I see
09:21:17	markun	GodEater: which thread?
09:21:26	JdGordon	Llorean: hmm, I guess your right.. its just there are 313 open patches atm, probably 75% are abandoned.. if they were all in the forum we wouldnt have to care about them
09:21:45	Llorean	pixelma: Once I've slept finally, I'd like to see if maybe I can track down a revision.
09:22:12	Llorean	JdGordon: Yeah, but we don't have to care about them there either, if we have a "It's nearly done" flag.
09:22:22	GodEater	markun: it's on the mailing list
09:22:28	Dangalario	what would the benefits be with rockbox on sansa v2? better emulation for gameboy?
09:22:36	GodEater	the dev one I would imagine since I don't subscribe to the user one
09:22:37	pixelma	Llorean: I can definitely understand that
09:22:46	Bagderr	Dangalario: a much better player
09:22:50	Llorean	Dangalario: I don't understand the question. The benefits would be the usual "you get the features of Rockbxo"
09:23:14	Dangalario	yea but i mean functionality-wize
09:23:24	Llorean	pixelma: I don't know if it's good or bad that someone else has the problem. It's good, my player isn't broken. It's bad, we have another obscure bug.
09:23:27	Bagderr	Dangalario: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox
09:23:33	JdGordon	Llorean: seems I cant edit your post.. can you add "also bare in mind we have a NODO list which you should check before possibly wasting time on a patch which we guarenteee will not be commited"
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09:24:07	Dangalario	i had rockbox on a v1 sansa 260 but it was stolen , gameboy emulation was choppy
09:24:07	Llorean	JdGordon: Okay
09:24:07	pixelma	Llorean: yeah, unfortunately. And the Nanos again...
09:24:15	Llorean	pixelma: Maybe even the same issue manifesting differently
09:24:29	B4gder	Dangalario: what's your point? that gameboy emulation is all you miss on the v2?
09:24:44	JdGordon	B4gder: and doom...
09:24:52	pixelma	Dangalario: is the question rather which of the 2 version have better hardware?
09:24:56	Dangalario	just wondered if v2 hardweare is fast enough to speed up that
09:25:03	B4gder	the v2 is faster
09:25:24	B4gder	so it should play gameboy and doom better
09:25:30	B4gder	now we just need the port to happen
09:25:32	Dangalario	sweet :D
09:25:33	Llorean	JdGordon: Updated
09:26:06	JdGordon	much better than what I suggested :)
09:26:45	Dangalario	but the sansa v2 firmware looks exactly like the v1 mayhaps its a port of sansa v1 cause its notably faster
09:26:46	JdGordon	APE tags in mp3 files should go on the NODO list yeah?
09:27:10	B4gder	Dangalario: well, we don't really care about the OF
09:29:27	Llorean	JdGordon: Probably
09:29:28	markun	Dangalario: the software might look the same, but the hardware is different
09:29:59	markun	Dangalario: here's some discussion about it http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.0
09:30:06	Dangalario	thanx
09:30:08	B4gder	pretty much like Rockbox actually
09:30:15	B4gder	looks similar on most hw
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09:30:56	Dangalario	oh
09:31:30	hasmind	Is there any chance that I could remodel the look of the rockbox.org webpage?
09:31:40	hasmind	it looks like it was designed in the 90s
09:31:55	Dangalario	olympus mrobe has no colours right?
09:32:00	B4gder	hasmind: feel free to suggest new designs, yes
09:32:26	hasmind	could I make a prototype and send it in?
09:32:30	GodEater	hasmind: There's a thread in the forums somewhere where some new designs were submitted already - perhaps you should take a look at it
09:32:35	B4gder	hasmind: sure
09:32:47	hasmind	ok, I'll check it out
09:33:12	B4gder	yes, there are probably a few hints in there already that are useful to read up on first
09:33:57	GodEater	http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=12607.0 <−− thread in question
09:37:39	*	Llorean did not realize 8977 was fixed
09:38:00	B4gder	nico_p is scary :-)
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09:38:24	Llorean	Those were our two critical release blockers (assuming some "related" bugs are really related)
09:38:27	JdGordon	yep
09:38:45	pixelma	Dangalario: there are two M:Robes Rockbox has a port for (in different states though). The M:robe100 is quite usable already and even has a manual, this one has a monochrome, red on black display. And then there is a started port to the M:Robe500 which is not that far, this one has a colour touch screen
09:38:47	JdGordon	now all we need is the RSB and a RM
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09:39:14	JdGordon	pixelma: well.. the only thing missing from hthe mr500 is audio :p
09:40:39	pixelma	no biggie then ;)
09:40:40	Llorean	JdGordon: well we have a schedule for the RSB
09:40:46	B4gder	having audio in a music player is soooooo 90s anyway
09:40:49	Llorean	And maybe we can squeeze in a tracker cleanup week soon.
09:41:42	markun	will the documentation cleanup week be a different one?
09:41:57	B4gder	I think we should do them separately
09:42:08	B4gder	for better focus
09:42:36	JdGordon	are the same people going to do both?
09:42:55	B4gder	hopefully a lot of us will join both efforts, yes
09:42:59	Llorean	It's more a "we ask everyone to do both, and hope there's some overlap"
09:45:05	JdGordon	4 weeks untill a RSB, 2 after that to cleanups? late august release before summer ends?
09:45:15	*	petur discovers his last video made it into http://www.dailymotion.com/group/RockboxDevcon2008
09:46:59	pixelma	btw. what about the Ipod Color issue - just leave them out of the release in case the bug hasn't been fixed yet?
09:47:09	B4gder	we can do the cleanups before the RSB
09:47:28	Llorean	pixelma: Well, there's a hackish way we can fix it, if I understand correctly
09:47:33	Llorean	Not a "proper" fix, but an "it works" fix.
09:47:49	hasmind	If I wanted to get to know the rockbox firmware, where would I start?
09:48:16	pixelma	Llorean: I'm not sure whether it'll break on some other type of LCDs (with certain OF versions) etc.
09:48:23	B4gder	I think I'll need to make some sort of official document about the RSB idea and concept...
09:48:27	JdGordon	hasmind: offering it a beer usually works
09:48:28	Llorean	pixelma: We talked some in the corner at DevCon and seem to agree that for the release, we can branch and pave over some of the bugs with non-ideal fixes (that don't come back into the main version) if absolutely necessary.
09:48:39	Llorean	But of course it does need tested.
09:48:50	Llorean	hasmind: Programming or Use?
09:48:52	hasmind	JdGordon: It said it only likes margaritas
09:48:58	hasmind	Programming
09:49:33	Llorean	hasmind: A good place to start is just toying with plugin creation, since you're working in a more limited context.
09:49:54	hasmind	I screwed around with chopper a few ages ago..
09:50:06	hasmind	and had it compiled virtually
09:50:33	hasmind	(or compiled to run on the pc, as a virtual ipod...whatever)
09:54:03	PaulJam	conecerning the g4 color LCD issue, wouldn't it be good to just commit the fix and watch out for complaints of users with a different LCD type instead of waiting a long time until someone with the other LCD type tests the patch?
09:54:22	Llorean	PaulJam: The fix is the wrong one, technically speaking, if I understand correctly
09:55:12	PaulJam	hmm, is it? goes to read the task again
09:57:15	B4gder	ok I made an intial RSB page at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxSteeringBoard
09:57:49	Llorean	PaulJam: I may be wrong, I'm just relaying here.
09:57:56	pixelma	PaulJam: I think the one forum thread has more information about it than the task
09:57:58	*	preglow is reminded about the need to nominate
09:58:28	Llorean	PaulJam: I personally don't know what's wrong with the patch (if anything)
09:59:22	JdGordon	B4gder: one thing that hasnt been mentioned at all (i think) is what to do if someone on the board needs to "retire" for whatever reason...
09:59:32	B4gder	ah right
09:59:47	B4gder	Llorean and I talked about that a bit too
09:59:54	preglow	runner ups should be invited in?
09:59:55	pixelma	Llorean: if I understand correctly the fix should be in the lcd init and not in which endianness Rockbox uses for RGB
10:00
10:00:05	B4gder	yes, runner ups will then be invited as replacements
10:00:12	preglow	sounds reasonable
10:01:15	Llorean	pixelma: The patch says it initializes the LCD to the right endianness.
10:03:53	pixelma	but it only changes defines a different "pixelformat" in the firmware/export/config file and tools/configure
10:03:59	Llorean	Aaah
10:04:03	pixelma	s/changes//
10:04:15	Llorean	Yeah that's not exactly initializing the LCD to a different mode.
10:04:17	JdGordon	B4gder: sorry, but payback for the typo jokes... "who get to join" ? :)
10:05:37	JdGordon	and last thing before I go for dinner... the rsb scope should be written down somewhere...
10:06:03	JdGordon	or maybe the purpose is good enough
10:06:40	pixelma	Llorean, PaulJam: this is the post has some important info (me thinks) http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17158.msg127519#msg127519 . I think the patch only does the "first thing to test"
10:07:20	*	pixelma shouldn't start sentences in one way and then think about another
10:09:19	Llorean	Yeah, so it'll just swap which ones aren't working.
10:10:05	pixelma	the next post of linuxstb below is quite interesting too
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10:17:21	PaulJam	Hmm, honestly i'm not really sure i understand the whole issue anyway. if i understand it correctly the original problem were because the original issue was, that one user experienced LCD issues because he used an old apple firmware, but then the blind added code from ipl broke it for everyone using a later apple firmware. so wouldn't the correct fix be to revert the ipl changes and instead do the lcd nitialisation the same way the later apple firmw
10:17:21	PaulJam	ares did (and until this is figured out tell people to update the OF if they experience problems).
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10:18:36	pixelma	maybe yes and this is how I understand it too
10:19:28	pixelma	telling people to update the OF before they can use Rockbox isn't I nice thing though
10:20:22	pixelma	s/I/a
10:20:56	JdGordon	shouldnt we be initialising the LCD the way we expect it?
10:21:31	JdGordon	regardless of OF or lcd type?
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10:24:05	pixelma	seems that something still relies on the OF there and "someone" needs to find the init sequence and implement it for Rockbox
10:24:35	*	B4gder looks around for someone
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10:32:14	preglow	anyone familiar with how to make wlan behave? :/
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10:36:07	JdGordon	hmm... rereading that post... I'm agreeing with whoever said revert the change... if someone really wants to use OF 1.0 isnt it initiing it correctly for its use?
10:38:33	Zagor	has anyone gotten blank pages in wiki today?
10:38:54	*	JdGordon has
10:39:06	*	JdGordon double checks
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10:39:35	JdGordon	yep, the "tasks I watch" saved search gives me a blank page
10:39:52	pixelma	in the wiki?
10:40:00	JdGordon	misread
10:40:09	JdGordon	for some reason I read tracker
10:40:39	JdGordon	Zagor: there is still a link to the reqeusst on the tracker quick links? Is that going to disappear also?
10:40:58	Zagor	ah, yes
10:41:33	wpyh	should we have a WebsiteIssues and TrackerIssues page in the wiki, to track these issues?
10:42:06	wpyh	JdGordon: for me, it gives me the tasks I watch
10:42:13	Zagor	done
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10:42:37	wpyh	Zagor: are you the website/tracker admin
10:42:43	*	wpyh missed a ?
10:42:44	Zagor	wpyh: there is a flyspray bug about flyspray
10:42:47	Zagor	yes
10:42:58	wpyh	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/ gives me a blank page
10:42:59	JdGordon	wpyh: can you paste the link? I think i remember accidently deleting it and remaking it manually which might be why its broken
10:43:13	wpyh	which bug number is it?
10:43:22	wpyh	JdGordon: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/?do=index&only_watched=1&string=&type[]=&sev[]=&due[]=&dev=&cat[]=&status[]=open&order=&sort=&percent[]=&opened=&search_in_comments=&search_for_all=&reported[]=&only_primary=
10:43:30	Zagor	wpyh: 7194
10:44:26	wpyh	thanks, I'll watch the task :)
10:50:59	JdGordon	does anyone have a .cue that definatly works?
10:52:11	scorche\|sh	Zagor: in cgi:irc, i only see "webguest??" being generated for the nick
10:53:33	Zagor	scorche\|sh: as opposed to?
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10:54:56	petur	there used to be a two digit number there
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10:56:09	scorche\|sh	Zagor: it was a randomly generated two-digit number
10:56:14	Zagor	but those ?? get replaced with a number when you connect, don't they?
10:56:26	*	petur tries
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10:56:43	webguest71	indeed
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10:57:39	petur	I thought the name was fully generated before joining, but I can see this way is safer
10:57:48	scorche\|sh	petur: same
10:58:03	Zagor	I think it has been like this for quite some time, actually :-)
10:58:29	petur	Actually I think not, but the discussion is pointless, it works ;)
10:58:30	*	scorche\|sh shuffles off into the corner
10:59:40	*	petur thinks not, therefore isn't, and goes away to do something else
11:00
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11:24:33	JdGordon	Nico_P: do you see anything fishy about this cuesheet which would cause problems? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9083?getfile=16893
11:24:56	JdGordon	oh, ignore that... youve commented on the task already
11:25:35	Nico_P	to me it seems like the reporter misuderstands how it works
11:25:50	Nico_P	but I might be the one misunderstanding
11:26:01	JdGordon	looks like I also misunderstood how to use it
11:32:39	pixelma	I believe there is a section about it in the manual...
11:45:30	preglow	why, oh why doesn't technology cooperate with me?
11:45:51	*	preglow considers gardening as a new hobby
11:46:07	petur	or brewing beer?
11:46:13	preglow	already doing that :)
11:46:18	petur	oh
11:46:38	*	petur waits for the invitation to go tasting
11:47:03	preglow	i've got approximately one bottle left of my last brew, and i've already more or less given that away
11:47:13	preglow	but you can be sure i'll bring some along if we ever meet :)
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11:48:40	preglow	great, my cellphone rebooted, i'll just add that alongside "sd" and "wlan" to the list of technologies that don't cooperate with me
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11:51:06	*	ze casually wonders what % of free software users/devs also homebrew and if its higher than other groups :p
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12:00
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12:01:17	*	preglow casually wonders what % of wlan users go completely insane from using it
12:01:31	assumedalive	hi everyone, this is just a niggling issue i've had_forever_ with rockbox on 5.5g ipods - sometimes, about every 1/3 of the time, it won't turn on by pressing the menu button. occasionally it flashes a battery icon extremely briefly. it always turns on properly after holding down menu/select to reset it. ive had this issue for over a year, when i asked about it originally there wasn't a fix, i just wanted to know if that had
12:02:13	preglow	if i didn't use screen, i'd be running naked around on the grass outside, screaming something about cabling
12:02:20	Nico_P	preglow: I don't know whether insane is a symptom, but some claim to have headaches and skinburns from wlan
12:03:09	preglow	Nico_P: so perhaps i've gone insane from the radiation and am in fact sabotaging my own wlan without remembering it? :P
12:03:23	PaulJam	assumedalive: your messacge got cut after "to know if that ha"
12:03:33	ze	preglow: i bought a router specifically to use as a WDS client to get rid of a cable run
12:03:41	ze	preglow: after a couple weeks, i ended up plugging the cable into it :p
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12:04:06	ze	been that way ever since :/
12:04:35	assumedalive	PaulJam: thanks, ill try again :-)
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12:05:09	assumedalive	this is just a niggling issue i've had_forever_ with rockbox on 5.5g ipods - sometimes, about every 1/3 of the time, it won't turn on by pressing the menu button. occasionally it flashes a battery icon extremely briefly. it always turns on properly after holding down menu/select to reset it.
12:05:12	assumedalive	ive had this issue for over a year, when i asked about it originally there wasn't a fix, i just wanted to know if that had changed (yes i am using the latest version)
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12:05:59	Nico_P	PaulJam: just saw your bugreport (FS #9137)... sounds like the resurrection of an old bug. I'll try to repro
12:06:58	pixelma	assumedalive: I believe that's a bug in the Apple firmware so nothing Rockbox can do something about that hits more often with Rockbox since it will switch off the Ipod completely in contrast to the Apple firmware which just "sleeps" it. There are a few discussions about it in the forums
12:07:41	PaulJam	isn't that an issue with the apple bootloader and rockbox can't really do anything about that? (or am i mixing up something there?)
12:08:06	PaulJam	oops, i actually wanted to hit backspace.
12:08:16	assumedalive	pixelma: aah ok...
12:08:36	assumedalive	pixelma: i dont suppose apple have bothered releasing a newer, fixed version have they?
12:08:48	pixelma	PaulJam: at least now we are two who believe it :)
12:09:23	pixelma	assumedalive: don't think so, but have no idea (don't even have an Ipod...)
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12:11:33	JdGordon	on that topic... anyone else think we should think about sleeping instead of shutting down? those that dont want the battery hit can do a proper shutdown
12:17:14	Nico_P	JdGordon: I think amiconn has plans about that
12:17:34	Nico_P	I remember him saying it requires quite some work
12:17:38	assumedalive	I would have imagined that if a sleep mode was that easy it would already be implemented?
12:18:07	assumedalive	i remember watching a presentation on suspend and hibernation in the linux kernel and it looked horrific
12:18:10	pixelma	at least the 1st and 2nd gen Ipods need the suspend mode as they can't be switched off completely
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12:51:34	JdGordon	jhMikeS: hey, any chance you could have a look at fixing 7402?
12:53:59	jhMikeS	I don't know. I could look at 7402 first. :)
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12:55:02	JdGordon	playback crashing after recording
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12:56:17	jhMikeS	The abort bug should have been fixed after the PCM rework. This task seems to now be another matter altogether where the audio codec driver just need to be properly reworked.
12:56:28	_vertic23	hey you... I (still) got a problem with my cowon iAudio X5V - it doesnot recharge any anymore - only over USB :/ I read it could be that the battery is "damaged" or in some undefined state - but it's strange that it works over USB - and the battery lasts imho even longer than before
12:57:02	jhMikeS	JdGordon: The H10 already got fixed in that regard since I have one and could check it.
12:57:30	_vertic23	have you any experience with that? all posts in the forum say that my battery is damaged... I don't think so
12:57:37	JdGordon	oh, so it might be closable?
12:57:44	JdGordon	or does each target need seperate fixing?
12:58:14	jhMikeS	JdGordon: For the remaining issue: HINT - the audio driver simply shuts all the power down on the chip when closing recording
12:58:35	JdGordon	e200 works fine
12:58:43	jhMikeS	different codec
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12:59:33	markun	_vertic23: doesn't sound like a broken battery to me either then
12:59:43	jhMikeS	The problem is in the wolfson-with-ADC drivers except wm8731
13:00
13:01:36	jhMikeS	afaict any task relating to aborts after recording should be closed and the remaing issue opened separately
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13:02:58	LTourist	hi there :)
13:03:17	markun	hi LTourist
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13:04:29	markun	LTourist: we were able to change the firmware and flash it, but so far my test code didn't work (should flash the backlight and make piezo clicks)
13:04:51	LTourist	hi markun
13:05:08	markun	did you take a look at the code?
13:05:19	LTourist	well, that's a such a good news :)
13:05:33	LTourist	I'm looking at it right now... :)
13:05:49	markun	"test code didn't work"
13:06:07	markun	so could have been better news
13:06:25	LTourist	yeah that for sure
13:06:51	markun	do you have the M6SL or SP?
13:07:19	LTourist	I had a m6sp, before a stupid guy steel it.
13:07:51	LTourist	I search for a sp on internet, but I can't find a brand new one for sell
13:08:18	LTourist	so I bought a sl, which I hope should arrive in the next week
13:09:09		Quit knitt1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:09:13	LTourist	I've tried to make the ui sim this morning, but a mysterious reason, it wan't compile anymore since yersterday...
13:09:33	markun	I don't think it compiles right now
13:09:46	markun	I can try to fix it when I get back home
13:10:11	markun	you can try to compile the bootloader, which now just gives a small test program
13:10:44		Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:10:59	LTourist	ok
13:11:04	markun	it isn't accepted by the meizu as a valid firmware file though, but you can included it in the official firmware
13:11:38	markun	LTourist: which OS are you using?
13:12:19	LTourist	right now, I'm on ubuntu 7.10, should become 8.07 in few days, when I'm get the courage for clicking on "update" ^^
13:12:37	markun	you can use the 'dd' tool to merge the firmwares then
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13:12:48	markun	if I get something working I can post some instructions
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13:14:03	LTourist	well, I haven't a meizu for now, so that's not a big deal at the moment
13:14:11	markun	true :)
13:14:29	LTourist	is there is any information about this tool in the wiki?
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13:15:31	LTourist	actually, I can't compile any sim anymore
13:15:35	markun	LTourist: no, 'dd' is a normal unix tool
13:16:54		Quit MethoS_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:17:43	LTourist	well, I have a dd tool installed, wich seems to be a file manipulating tool
13:18:27	preglow	jhMikeS: oy, didn't you write most of the pp sd card driver?
13:19:07	jhMikeS	preglow: dan_a, toni1 mostly. I just perfected the card switching and did some asm
13:19:14	pixelma	now, if there was a way to trigger a new build round for the manuals... I'm just curious whether really all build now, I tested a lot but am not sure if I overlooked something
13:20:28	preglow	jhMikeS: right, then
13:21:28	pixelma	barrywardell too? (maybe only the HC support though, but I am not sure at all)
13:21:38	preglow	too bad none of them are around much, but i don't think it's a bug that matters anyway
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13:22:11	jhMikeS	dan_a is definitely the main author
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13:23:14	preglow	the SET_BUS_WIDTH commands isn
13:23:28	preglow	the SET_BUS_WIDTH commands isn't meant to take rca, but sd-pp does so anyway
13:23:31	LTourist	markun : which OS do you have ?
13:23:37	preglow	but they're probably handled as don't care bits anyway
13:24:26	markun	LTourist: FreeBSD
13:24:29	preglow	don't have a target where i can test the change anyway, so i won't change
13:24:39	LTourist	markun : I think I have some problems with my packets, as I can't compile anymore whereas I was able to do it 2 days ago...
13:25:53	jhMikeS	preglow: it should probably have a go-over by anyone that knows the card stuff. perhaps a clue to the write bug will pop up.
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13:26:42	preglow	jhMikeS: write bug?
13:27:10	jhMikeS	preglow: when transferring to the device in MSC mode, it can corrupt the card
13:27:24	jhMikeS	...or the onboard flash
13:28:04	preglow	ouch
13:28:19	preglow	well, i'm starting to get into sd card stuff, but not exactly an expert yet
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13:30:35	jhMikeS	FS #8663
13:33:45	preglow	timing related, hmm
13:33:48	preglow	weird
13:34:17	preglow	that looks more pp related than anything else
13:34:22	preglow	i doubt knowledge on sd will matter much
13:34:39	preglow	i'd just dissasemble retailos and see what they do for a start
13:36:02	LTourist	markun : where comes infos about PDAT, PCON, etc ?
13:36:23	LTourist	come, come from ??? ^^
13:38:55	preglow	Bagder: i love that "X-fromdanielhimself" mail header element :P
13:39:13	markun	LTourist: did you see my PM?
13:39:41	LTourist	I didn't, I go check it right now :)
13:40:05	markun	LTourist: in IRC..
13:40:28	LTourist	ah ^^ I didn't, I come ^^
13:41:02	jhMikeS	preglow: well, they use DMA but the experimental DMA driver still has the issue as recently as I checked
13:41:55	B4gder	preglow: ;-)
13:42:57	B4gder	helps me block spam that get to me with my address in From: ...
13:44:37	markun	B4gder: nice idea
13:45:38	J-23	Is it possible to track comments for patches/bugs at RB Tracker via RSS or Atom?
13:46:38	J-23	I want to track versions of some patches
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13:55:39	pixelma	there is a RSS feed of the tracker though I don't know how it works and if you can configure it. But you could also watch the task and get notified per email whenever something changes
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14:22:25	kugel	gevaerts_: rockbox1d seems bugged
14:23:23	kugel	I have 34k points at the beginning, and the blocks give different points than in the game on tetris1d.org
14:23:40	dionoea	that sounds like a release critical bug :)
14:23:57	kugel	also, there doesn't seem to be a button with which i can drop the blocks faster
14:25:11	kugel	dionoea: honestly, i wonder why it was even committed. I knew the devs should fear plugin commits less, but rockblox1d is very near to useless imo
14:25:40	dionoea	;)
14:25:59	dionoea	you still managed to find bugs in it
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14:27:16	kugel	dionoea: videolan dev? you are one of the guys who make vlc for us?
14:27:30	dionoea	yup
14:27:44	kugel	great
14:28:05	kugel	and vlc is a great software, but don't let us got more off-topic
14:28:13	dionoea	hehe. thanks
14:30:29	fdinel	hmm, is there a wiki admin here?
14:30:40	fdinel	seems like directed graph plugin doesn't work anymore
14:32:01	pixelma	fdinel: maybe you could put this on the WikiIssues page?
14:32:21	*	kugel needs a video to see if the libmpeg2 cvs sync was worth it
14:32:21	fdinel	ok thanks didn't there was a page for that
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14:32:55	BigBambi	kugel: As it adds nothing to the core, what is the problem with it?
14:33:50	kugel	BigBambi: Nothing, I just see no sense in that plugin
14:34:05	BigBambi	Sure, but that is no reason not to commit it
14:34:14	BigBambi	Others like it
14:34:41	fdinel	pixelma: well I can't edit the issues page neither, that's the url I'm redirected to: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/oops/Main/WikiIssues?template=oopsleaseconflict;def=lease_old;param1=Main.MaurusCuelenaere;param2=10%20minutes%2021%20seconds;param3=;param4=edit
14:34:46	fdinel	:D
14:35:03	BigBambi	robotfindskitten is the epitomy of pointlessness in my opinion, but I'm not going to argue against it
14:35:58	kugel	BigBambi: Well, rfk features at least some funny and semi-funny jokes :)
14:36:03	*	dionoea never understood the concept of robotfindskitten
14:36:08	pixelma	fdinel: I believe that's another issue that pops up when another user is editing the page (if I draw the right conclusions from what I read here)
14:36:20	BigBambi	kugel: Not for me - and that is the point
14:36:41	fdinel	ok fine I'll wait a bit and retry, thanks again
14:36:50	pixelma	there was an update of the used twiki version during the weekend end there seems to be a lot to sort out still
14:37:06	kugel	BigBambi: I'm not arguing against the commit of rockblox1d either, i just expressed my opinion
14:37:09	pixelma	*and too
14:37:28	Zagor	fdinel: oopsleasconflict now fixed (although it's currently a bit ugly)
14:39:42	fdinel	:D
14:39:47	fdinel	thanks Zagor, it works now
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14:43:37	peng1	pengo-au/2627240261/sizes/l/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/pengo-au/2627240261/sizes/l/
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14:47:05	pengo	hi
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14:53:28	GodEater	nicely smashed iriver remote
14:55:00	pengo	thanks
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14:56:44	*	GodEater needs chocolate
14:58:59	BigBambi	kugel: sorry, it read (to me) like you thought it shouldn't have been :)
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15:13:04	Nico_P	has mcuelenaere dropped the zvm port for now?
15:14:01	LambdaCalculus37	Nico_P: Dunno. I haven't heard much of what's going on with that, and I don't know if he did anything on it during DevCon.
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15:15:38	kugel	LambdaCalculus37: I think he did. He had it with him and I think he played around with it
15:18:08	Nico_P	it displays the menus but doesn't play music, right?
15:18:33	LambdaCalculus37	Right.
15:19:04	LambdaCalculus37	And the install method is very brutal at this point, since you have to remove the drive and format it.
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15:20:52	kugel	JdGordon, JdGordon\|phone: I have prepared a sync'd v3 of the patch
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15:43:57	gevaerts_	kugel: did you read the manual for rockblox1d ?
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15:46:17	kugel	gevaerts_: yea
15:46:35	kugel	gevaerts_: but pressing select makes hardly a difference
15:47:30	*	gevaerts_ is happy. Someone read the bit of manual he wrote/stole :)
15:48:03	gevaerts_	kugel: which player ? Maybe I made a mistake when documenting the buttons
15:48:30	kugel	gevaerts_: e200
15:49:16	kugel	gevaerts_: I played tetris1d on the webpage, and there it was noticeably faster than without pressing the button to move the brick faster
15:54:45	kugel	linuxstb_: Can you check if checkwps is still working? I get many errors
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15:56:55	kugel	linuxstb_: 2 errors due to removing the lcd margins, 2 errors due to changing screens[].width/.height to .lcdheight/.lcd
15:57:12	kugel	.lcdwidth
15:57:27	kugel	but many errors more
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16:03:12	mcuelenaere	Nico_P: I sort of stopped working on the ZVM port by lack of interest
16:03:37	mcuelenaere	but now that I've discovered a part of the Zen File System is documented, I might do a bit this summer
16:03:52		Join rasher [50] (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher)
16:03:57	Nico_P	mcuelenaere: you're so close!
16:03:59	rasher	Who's the twiki admin again?
16:04:23	mcuelenaere	Nico_P: yes, but I really hate RE and there's a lot to do with this port
16:04:36	mcuelenaere	especially for the PIC cpu which controls the keys
16:04:48	mcuelenaere	for now, it seems those values changes almost randomly
16:05:36	mcuelenaere	+ I broke my power connector and need to find a way how to solder it back on
16:05:45		Join agaffney [0] (n=agaffney@gentoo/developer/pdpc.active.agaffney)
16:05:52	Nico_P	mcuelenaere: PIC as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIC_microcontroller ?
16:06:10	mcuelenaere	yep, it's a PIC18xx
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16:06:23	mcuelenaere	rockbox.org/wiki/CreativeZVMPort
16:06:49	mcuelenaere	Microchip PIC18LF4320
16:07:18	mcuelenaere	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CreativeZVMPort#How_internals_are_connected -> see PIC
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16:11:07	rasher	Zagor, Bagder: Why is my majorchanges script getting a 403 on http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MajorChanges?raw=on ? Are you doing some sort of user-agent sniffing/banning?
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16:11:29	Nico_P	rasher: could it be related to the new TWiki version?
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16:13:31	rasher	Probably
16:13:55	pixelma	viewing the raw looks different than before - the content is in some sort of codebox at a set height which you have to scroll
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16:20:18	rasher	That's not an issue (yet) - right now my server's not even allowed to download the page
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16:28:02	JdGordon	does anyone care about debug builds being broken? (FS #6069)
16:29:21	tmcarr	?
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16:32:45	JdGordon	amiconn: the MIN()/MAX() stuff? yeah.. probably.. I just wanted to get a working fix in though
16:32:53	JdGordon	it should be cleaned up
16:33:38	JdGordon	has anyone got a gigabeat F ?
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16:38:18	pengo	i have a feature request.. there should be a demo app that just displays the Rockbox logo and keeps the backlight on ... to make product photography easier
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16:38:42	JdGordon	there is
16:38:56	pengo	JdGordon: it moves the logo around tho
16:39:11	pengo	unless i missed it
16:39:13	rasher	You could use the credits plugin
16:39:37	rasher	Although I don't remember if that skips to the credits automatically
16:40:15	JdGordon	logo.rock can be made to stop the logo moving
16:40:25	rasher	Oh, that it can!
16:40:28	rasher	I should know.
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16:40:31	pengo	oh
16:40:32	*	JdGordon didnt know that untill now
16:40:45	rasher	But it's not full-width, I'll give you that
16:41:08	rasher	Would it not be reasonable if the credits screen waited for input before jumping to credits anyway?
16:41:20	pengo	well i got my photo anyway.. (as pasted before) pengo-au/2627240261/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/pengo-au/2627240261/ .. i'd try to put it on the wiki but.. i'm not sure what the point would be
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16:46:00	JdGordon	pengo: nice :)
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16:48:22	LambdaCalculus37	"Rockbox... Smashing Good Time!" :P
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16:55:32	amiconn	JdGordon: The part before the \|\| can go away. The MIN()/MAX() part always becomes true before that.
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17:05:35	PaulJam	Nico_P: just read that you weren't able to reproduce FS #9137. with what audio format did you try?
17:06:31	Nico_P	PaulJam: it was MP3
17:08:51	PaulJam	ok, i'm currently trying with mp3 (but it takes ages)
17:09:31	Nico_P	do you consistently get it with FLAC?
17:11:16	MarcGuay	pixelma: If you're around I wouldn't mind a quick lesson on svn keywords so you don't have to clean up my mistakes again...
17:12:17	PaulJam	turns out i get it with mp3 too (the track just skipped 40 sec too early). i used flac because there i have more songs with the needed filesizes.
17:13:04	Nico_P	I wonder if this could be H300 specific
17:13:59	PaulJam	Nico_P: i can reproduce it maybe 80% of the time. btw, did you try on tarrget or uisim?
17:14:18	Nico_P	PaulJam: on target, iPod 5.5G
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17:24:11	PaulJam	Nico_P: how big were the files you used for reproduction?
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17:25:27	Nico_P	PaulJam: I used one that was 65 MB (my buffer is 61 MB)
17:32:15	PaulJam	hmm. i have no idea what you could have done differently :(
17:33:13	Nico_P	maybe I haven't followed the recipe closely enough... I'll try again
17:33:27	Nico_P	PaulJam: what happens when you do it in the sim?
17:34:14	pixelma	MarcGuay: am around now, though I'm not the most knowledgable person about it either but I can try
17:36:00	PaulJam	the sim behaves pretty much like the target, either it skips or it gives noise. (i mainly used the uisim)
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17:41:24	Nico_P	Bagder: isn't it possible to use the rockbox svn over HTTP?
17:41:43	dionoea	not that I know.
17:41:48	GodEater	Nico_P: yes it is
17:41:54	dionoea	ah sorry :)
17:42:06	Nico_P	GodEater: really? I just tried and couldn't
17:42:08	GodEater	it greatly depends on if you're behind a proxy or not
17:42:12	Nico_P	crap
17:42:23	Nico_P	git passed through
17:42:24	GodEater	and whether or not the proxy supports a bunch of weird HTTP methods
17:42:46	GodEater	if you're NOT behind a proxy, it's pretty straightforward I think, but the svn server needs to allow the HTTP requests
17:43:16	Nico_P	"Server sent unexpected return value (405 Method Not Allowed) in response to PROPFIND request for '/rockbox/trunk'"
17:43:36	GodEater	yeah, that'll be an issue
17:43:45	GodEater	PROPFIND is one of those weird HTTP methods that's required
17:45:02	GodEater	Nico_P: I looked at this ages ago before I ever got my SSH tunnel working
17:45:16	GodEater	but the proxy here doesn't even understand PROPFIND, much less pass it through
17:45:16	Nico_P	damn damn damn
17:45:33	GodEater	Nico_P: I feel your pain :(
17:45:48	*	GodEater has been reduced to using the tarball for keeping up to date
17:45:57	GodEater	and of course there's no way to commit back
17:46:29	Nico_P	I managed to get git to clone my repo at repo.or.cz (it took a while at 15 KB/s, but worked)
17:46:32	LambdaCalculus37	GodEater: Not even at home?
17:46:47	GodEater	LambdaCalculus37: of course at home - but I spend very little time there compared to work
17:46:55	GodEater	for instance, I have a hot dinner date tonight ;)
17:46:57	Nico_P	but I have no means of keeping that repo up to date now
17:46:58	GodEater	so I won't be there
17:47:18	GodEater	Nico_P: well you could give someone else push rights to it
17:47:27	*	Nico_P has no more internet access at home :(
17:47:29	GodEater	and then they could set up a cron to keep it up to date
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17:47:46	Nico_P	GodEater: maybe I'll need to do that, yes
17:47:48	GodEater	or someone could get that proper git mirror of our svn tree going ;)
17:47:56	Nico_P	but I think I'll try the tunnel trick
17:48:06	GodEater	it's pretty simple once you get it going
17:48:08	Nico_P	there was talk about that at devcon
17:48:11	GodEater	I have a pretty comprehensive guide
17:48:12	GodEater	:)
17:48:30	Nico_P	I think Bagder plans on doing it
17:48:48	GodEater	it just means someone writing the svn post commit hook really doesn't it ?
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17:49:05	Nico_P	yeah, I think that's it
17:50:03	GodEater	Nico_P: godeater.cream.org/vpn.html">http://godeater.cream.org/vpn.html
17:51:04	Nico_P	GodEater: that will come in handy, thanks
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17:51:49	GodEater	Nico_P: it's a great solution, it's just a shame that I can't use it anymore because the security people here are so good at their jobs they monitor bloody everything =/
17:52:09	*	Nico_P hopes the admins here won't be too strict
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17:52:33	GodEater	well before they act strict, they have to notice what you're doing ;)
17:53:18	pixelma	JdGordon: still around? I guess a should just flyspray it though...
17:53:58	Nico_P	GodEater: most frustrating is that I have a PC at home (Paris) that could act as a server, but I have no means of contacting it
17:54:29	GodEater	Nico_P: well like I say, I have most of this set up at home
17:54:39	GodEater	I just need to twiddle with it to get you working from there
17:54:51	GodEater	on that note, I need to get going. Never does to keep a lady waiting....
17:54:55	GodEater	later all!
17:54:55	Nico_P	GodEater: I'd be very thankful :)
17:55:00	Nico_P	later :)
17:55:11	LambdaCalculus37	GodEater: Bye!
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18:00
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18:16:03	Llorean	pixelma: Okay, Nano's fairly charged, built Rockbox locally, used a different cable, still ATA errors, so I'm now going to see if I can track it down.
18:18:16	wpyh	Llorean: I have a Nano. Which bug was it? (I faintly recall something about ATA -11 errors)
18:18:30	Llorean	wpyh: Current builds give ATA -11 error on some Nanos.
18:18:43	wpyh	when did it start?
18:18:51	Llorean	That's what I'm trying to determine
18:19:01	wpyh	ah
18:19:10	wpyh	I'm using r17705M, no errors
18:19:31	Llorean	Until we know if yours has that error with a current build, that information isn't useful
18:19:34	soap	"some Nanos."
18:19:48	*	wpyh thought there is only one hardware for nanos
18:20:07	Llorean	wpyh: Doesn't always mean every single Nano works the same, unfortunately
18:20:15	pixelma	Llorean: do you remember which build there was on before?
18:20:24	Llorean	pixelma: no idea
18:20:26		Quit n1s ()
18:20:30	Llorean	19750 fails, 19500 passes though
18:20:45	Llorean	er 17750
18:20:48	Llorean	17500
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18:21:34	pixelma	I believe it was some 17200-ish... ok, then this information isn't helpful ;)
18:22:09	Llorean	I'll just binchop until I hit a number.
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18:27:38	bluebrother	hmm. How can I distinguish the various m200 versions? Did I miss something at the m200 wiki page?
18:28:03	Llorean	bluebrother: OF version, I think.
18:28:04	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: The only way is internally, really.
18:28:32	LambdaCalculus37	Llorean: The OF version is not entirely accurate in the m200's case.
18:28:34	bluebrother	OF version is 2.2.3E. So I guess that's a v1?
18:28:45	LambdaCalculus37	Yes, that's a TCC-based.
18:28:51	LambdaCalculus37	So you're in luck.
18:29:13	LambdaCalculus37	Mine was 2.2.5A, but the mainboard was a "revision 1".
18:29:26	bluebrother	seems I need a rather small screwdriver to open that thing up. Need to check if I have something around here ...
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18:32:17	*	Llorean bets it's 17721
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18:33:16	wpyh	my nano works even with the latest build
18:33:54	bluebrother	LambdaCalculus37: anything I should look for before cracking it open?
18:34:22	Llorean	pixelma: It's 17721, confirmed.
18:34:31	MarcGuay	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FeatureRequests could use some updating if anyone's got the time.
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18:39:17	pixelma	Llorean: interesting
18:41:03	wpyh	that's the pcf init
18:41:11	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: A guitar pick or something to seperate the upper and lower halves, that's about it.
18:41:50	wpyh	Llorean: could you please revert the change and try the new inits one by one, see which one caused the ata error?
18:42:30	*	wpyh wonders if it's IOREGC
18:42:42	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: The hardware revision should be somewhere on the board, towards where the buttons are.
18:42:57	*	wpyh realizes that IOREGC is the only one that really changed :p
18:43:04	bluebrother	ok. Still struggling to get this thing open
18:43:25	LambdaCalculus37	You should also see a small daughterboard with the NAND on it. Can you also see if there's a second chip on said board when you open it?
18:46:28	bluebrother	ok, some more excessive use of force helped. I can see the daugtherboard.
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18:46:56	bluebrother	Revision 2.0 (SLC)
18:47:47	LambdaCalculus37	Looks like you have one that accesses the NAND directly.
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18:48:09	LambdaCalculus37	There's a Revision 3 that uses Tri-Flash, according to shotofadds.
18:48:33	LambdaCalculus37	But right now, scorche has my m240, which is going to go to shotofadds, and in return, I get his m230.
18:48:50	bluebrother	ok. Now for disconnecting the Nand. It that secured in any way?
18:49:36	wanze	any idea where I might get iPod 5G themes?
18:49:43	LambdaCalculus37	No, not really. Just pry it up, but gently! It's very easy to snap some of the plastic off of the connector.
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18:50:04	LambdaCalculus37	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIpod5g
18:50:15	bluebrother	that's what I'm afraid of −− and it's connected rather firmly
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18:50:55	bluebrother	wanze: http://rockbox-themes.cleansoap.org/index.php?res=320x240x16
18:51:05	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: If you break the plastic off the connector, it's not going to ruin the connector, but it will make it a little easier for it to come off.
18:51:13	wanze	thanks both
18:51:14		Quit borges (Remote closed the connection)
18:51:38	wanze	LambdaCalculus37, why are there themes on http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIpod5g when it at http://www.rockbox-themes.org/index.php?res=320x240x16 says that they've been removed?
18:52:11	LambdaCalculus37	Copyright.
18:52:25	wanze	�
18:52:28	wanze	Copyright?
18:52:56	wanze	oh, it isn't the same site
18:53:50	PaulJam_	quote from that page: "iPod 5G themes, temporarily removed due to bandwidth restrictions"
18:55:23	bluebrother	hmm. Seems after removing the NAND it won't come up anymore.
18:55:24	wanze	Yes, "copyright" doesn't seem like the answer
18:56:07	bluebrother	shouldn't it go to pre-boot mode?
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18:56:35	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: Right now, that's about the only way we know how to enter USB boot mode.
18:56:52	soap	you're talking about two separate issues. There are differences between the themes hosted at the two sites due to copyright concerns, there is also the secondary issue of rockbox-themes bandwidth consumption necessitating the mirroring of the 5th gen iPod themes.
18:56:57	LambdaCalculus37	Compile an m200 bootloader, and you can upload it with tcctool.
18:57:34	bluebrother	tcctool doesn't recognize the player. Do I need to do something special? I just reconnected USB and battery.
18:58:38	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: You don't need the battery.
18:59:00	LambdaCalculus37	If you connect it to USB, it may appear that nothing is happening, but that's USB boot mode.
18:59:18	bluebrother	ok. Shouldn't I see a new device with lsusb?
18:59:46	LambdaCalculus37	Yes. Do you see one?
19:00
19:00:08	bluebrother	no
19:00:33	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: What distro are you using? Just curious.
19:00:40	bluebrother	Fedora 8.
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19:00:47	pixelma	Llorean: could that be a hint where the differences in "problematic" or at least potentionally problematic Nanos and perfectly working ones lie?
19:01:07	Llorean	pixelma: Mine wasn't problematic previously.
19:01:17	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: What does dmesg say?
19:01:20	Llorean	It may be a hint, but I don't know what it means yet. :)
19:02:04		Quit LTourist ()
19:02:35	bluebrother	nothing. Last entry was me replugging the mouse :(
19:02:54	*	pixelma steals an "ion" from her last sentence
19:02:55	LambdaCalculus37	Okay, remove the m200 from USB.
19:03:28	*	LambdaCalculus37 hopes his little trick works...
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19:03:43	Strogg	'lo lo
19:04:11	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:04:12	bluebrother	ok, done.
19:04:37	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: Get the command for tcctool ready... "tcctool -d c100 <filename.bin>", but don't hit enter just yet. Connect the m200 again, count to five, then hit enter.
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19:05:36	bluebrother	doesn't work
19:05:41	LambdaCalculus37	Damn. :(
19:05:41	Strogg	I'm following along with the dev docs on the site and trying to build gcc, but it's dieing with an error.. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong here?
19:05:46	Strogg	make[1]: *** No rule to make target `../include/ansidecl.h', needed by `regex.o'. Stop.
19:06:21	BigBambi	Strogg: using rockboxdev.sh ?
19:06:22	Strogg	the file is in the gcc/include dir.. it's just that the path it thinks it's at is wrong. but I'm not sure where I'm supposed to fix it.. the makefile for gcc is rather ugly
19:06:43	Strogg	BigBambi: hrmm no.. I was following along with http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CrossCompiler
19:07:00	BigBambi	I'd just use the nice script that builds all the cross compilers for you along with required patches
19:07:25	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: That's really strange that Fedora's not seeing the m200 in USB boot mode. :/
19:07:38	BigBambi	Strogg: tools/rockboxdev.sh
19:07:38	Strogg	BigBambi: hrmm ok.. I'll give that a shot
19:07:42	BigBambi	It is a damn site easier
19:07:53	BigBambi	*sight
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19:11:10	bluebrother	LambdaCalculus37: you think it's related to the distro? Would really surprise me
19:11:54	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: If it is, all I can say on that is "Dayum!"
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19:12:11	LambdaCalculus37	I'm running Kubuntu here, and tcctool works for me.
19:12:33	bluebrother	strange. I could try using a live CD or so later. Or maybe even on windows.
19:13:07	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: Okay. Let me know how it goes.
19:14:00	Strogg	hrmm I grabbed the rockbox source from the repo and looking at the rockboxdev script.. is builddir one of the vars I need to define? it's not listed at the top and the script is trying to use it before it's defined anywhere else.
19:14:24	Strogg	I'm guessing I have ot add a builddir="/home/jean/rockbox/build" at the top?
19:14:30	BigBambi	Strogg: No
19:14:47	BigBambi	Strogg: You don't need to change the script at all, unless you want to change where it puts things
19:15:00	BigBambi	In which so, you'll need to find where it defines them
19:15:14	BigBambi	You don't add anything, but if you so wish, you can change it
19:16:03	Strogg	Ok.. but when I run it, it says "Build dir: (edit script to change dir)"
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19:16:29	BigBambi	I've never actually looked i n it, I just ran it and it did it's thing
19:16:38	BigBambi	Are you running it as root (required)
19:17:54	Strogg	hrmm not running as root.. I was going to install it into my home directory
19:18:16	*	Strogg tries that
19:19:03	BigBambi	well, as I said I've never looked in it, and I'm sure you could change destinations to build where you want. I just ran it as root and it just worked (TM) :)
19:19:18	Strogg	oh well.. I'll run it and just see if it works. hehe
19:20:03	n1s	Strogg: did you edit the script?
19:20:21	Strogg	n1s: yeah, and I set the 3 vars at the top
19:20:40	Strogg	dlwhere, prefix, and .... hrmm err.. wait a sec.
19:20:50	n1s	because from the message you got it seems the builddir var is empty (or just a space)
19:20:51	Strogg	dlwhere, prefix and dlwhere?
19:21:03	*	Strogg checks if that's his copy or the svn copy
19:21:10	n1s	the second dlwhere should be a builddir
19:21:13	Strogg	yeah
19:21:45	Strogg	F.. how the hell did I do that.
19:21:54	Strogg	ok.. sorry. that was really lame. hehe
19:22:26	Strogg	I suspect I cut and pasted a line and forgot to change the var.. lame..
19:22:50	BigBambi	hehe :)
19:23:16	Strogg	Ok.. there we go.. script is running
19:23:23	Strogg	man.. all this for a go file reader.. hehe
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20:00
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20:01:41	Llorean	Bagder: What do we want to do about 3.0? I think a good plan might be to let the steering board vote finish first. During that time do at least a tracker cleanup week. The freeze can be sometime in August unless new blockers show up, and documentation cleanup can come concurrently (or even after we have a 3.0 binary if necessary).
20:02:00	Llorean	Mainly I'd just like to see a 3.0 get out the door before it gets bogged down again by something.
20:02:23	pixelma	like the new Nano bug o.O
20:02:50	Llorean	pixelma: The new nano-bug is easy to fix, just revert the PCF change. It's another non-ideal fix, but it'll wrok.
20:02:51	Llorean	work
20:02:53	*	pixelma hopes for a quick fix though
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20:05:06	Bagder	Llorean: I think that sounds like a fine 3.0-plan
20:06:30	wanze	How do I leave the Text editor on my iPod 5g?
20:07:29	Llorean	wanze: I don't know, but it ought to be in the manual
20:08:36	wanze	found it, thanks ):
20:08:37	wanze	:)
20:10:08		Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@c-71-205-31-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
20:10:14	shotofadds	some nice deals here for anyone in the UK/Europe looking to buy a Cowon D2... http://svp.co.uk/searchresults.php?sSrch=cowon%20d2
20:11:59		Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
20:12:17	bluebrother	LambdaCalculus37: just tried on windows and F9live −− no usb device detected :(
20:12:31	bluebrother	there is a small battery on the PCB, do you think I should try removing that?
20:12:43	LambdaCalculus37	No, it shouldn't affect anything.
20:12:51	LambdaCalculus37	Try a Debian-based distro.
20:13:38	*	bluebrother wonders why a debian-based distro should be better and goes searching for a knoppix cd
20:13:54		Quit Zagor ("Leaving")
20:14:09		Join SETH_HIKARU [0] (i=SETH_HIK@host-126-183-3-96.midco.net)
20:14:27	SETH_HIKARU	hi whats the off topic rockbox irc channel please
20:14:31		Quit MethoS_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:14:34	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: I think we should talk to linuxstb about why tcctool is crapping out on other distros, if that is indeed the case.
20:14:44		Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net)
20:14:55	SETH_HIKARU	stay on topic
20:15:19	scorche	that is ontopic
20:15:26	SETH_HIKARU	didnt sound like it
20:15:33	scorche	yes, it did
20:15:34	SETH_HIKARU	where do we use tcctool in rockbox
20:15:36	bluebrother	the interesting thing is that my box even doesn't see a new usb device. At least that should happen, shouldn't it?
20:15:41	LambdaCalculus37	SETH_HIKARU: You either shut up and behave, or your ass is out of the channel.
20:15:55	Bagder	SETH_HIKARU: we use tcctool to play with telechips devices
20:16:19	LambdaCalculus37	bluebrother: Yeah; a new device should be seen,
20:16:27		Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
20:16:32	SETH_HIKARU	and may i ask what telechip devices are or is that off topic and i should just go look it up on wikipedia or google
20:16:33	*	bluebrother remembers his ignore list :)
20:16:46	scorche	SETH_HIKARU: the latter
20:16:50	SETH_HIKARU	ok
20:16:50	Bagder	SETH_HIKARU: telechips is a korean chip maker
20:16:57	bluebrother	was some guy bitching at me? Haven't noticed anything ;-)
20:17:05	SETH_HIKARU	no
20:17:20	SETH_HIKARU	but someone was bithcing at me
20:17:27		Join Buschel [0] (n=abc@p54A3EA0B.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:17:44	scorche	SETH_HIKARU: hush about it...you are already on your last warning
20:18:06	Buschel	Llorean: just read about reverting the pcf-patch to get rid of the nano ATA-error...
20:18:23	Buschel	Llorean: are you talking of r17721?
20:19:28	Llorean	Buschel: I sent you an email about it.
20:19:34	midgey	Bagder: thanks for the genlang tip
20:19:37	amiconn	Llorean: Which PCF change are you talking about?
20:19:40	Llorean	Some iPod Nanos get ATA -11 errors from revision 17721, 17720 works fine
20:19:46	Llorean	amiconn: revision 17721
20:19:47	bluebrother	SETH_HIKARU: that's definitely not true (I can read logs ;-)
20:19:51	Zagor	rasher: yes, the new twiki rejects connections from a list of useragents, including ""
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20:20:21	Bagder	it seems a bit strict
20:20:29	rasher	Zagor: I'd be sending PHP/5.something I believe. Apparently that's blocked as well.
20:20:37	rasher	Now I'm sending "Firefox", which works.
20:20:57	Buschel	Llorean: no email... could you track it down to an explicit register?
20:21:20	amiconn	Zagor: Fyi, we now swapped 2 of the ceiling tiles for 2 from one of our storage rooms. Tomorrow I'll see what I can do about the remaining light brown speckles
20:21:20	*	Buschel wanted to say he didn't receive any mail yet
20:21:22	Llorean	Buschel: I used your email from the patch tracker.
20:21:28	Llorean	Which may be a fake, I dunno
20:21:47		Quit desowin (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:22:15	Zagor	rasher: afaik you sent nothing. in fact I looked at those reject messages and wonder who that was :-) neither curl nor wget is rejected, it's mostly to stop stuff like LinkWalker etc from "caching" pages in wiki (and thus triggering edits and whatnot)
20:22:30	n1s	amiconn: soda explosion or something interesting? ;)
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20:22:31	bertrik	I have no experience with ipods, but looking at the patch it seems only PCF5060X-IOREGC is affected
20:22:41	DieselHopper	Anyone here that can help me please?
20:22:59	wanze	Ask a question
20:23:00	bluebrother	only if you dare to ask a question ;-)
20:23:02	Buschel	Llorean: the email is correct
20:23:04		Part SETH_HIKARU
20:23:14	DieselHopper	I'm getting the Can't load rockbox.ipod: error
20:23:18	rasher	Zagor: Weird, I simply use php's file_get_contents() - maybe it's my host's patched PHP that acts weird. Anyway, mystery solved and fixed.
20:23:26	DieselHopper	All the suggested methods aren't doing a thing
20:23:43	Buschel	betrik: IOREGC was changed for ipod video, but not for nano. 3.0V is nano's default
20:24:02	Zagor	amiconn: ah, good idea with the swap.
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20:24:17	DieselHopper	Any ideas?
20:25:28	Bagder	DieselHopper: yes, you didn't extract the zip properly
20:25:42	*	amiconn thought gcc does analyze expressions for potential simplification
20:26:00	bertrik	Buschel, oh, and an #if was changed so nano uses the same PCF settings as video
20:26:20	Buschel	Llorean/betrik: the only change for nano should be D1REGC1 (which was tested as used for codec). maybe D1REGC influences some other stuff?
20:26:21	amiconn	Looks like it wasn't clever enough to find that simplification I committed
20:26:33	DieselHopper	Well here's what I did, I loaded the .rockbox file onto my iPod perfectly. Everything was working fine, and then I wanted a theme so I delete my old .rockbox file and replaced it with the theme .rockbox file and then I loaded the bootloader and installed it and now it gives me the error.
20:26:40	bluebrother	DieselHopper: I really don't understand what you mean by "all suggested methods".
20:26:46	Bagder	DieselHopper: .rockbox is not a file
20:26:54	bluebrother	errr ... you did what?
20:27:00	Llorean	Buschel: I'm just about to build one with that register reverted
20:27:10	*	bluebrother strongly suggests using Rockbox Utility
20:27:13	Buschel	Llorean: perfect
20:27:26	DieselHopper	Rockbox Utility?
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20:27:34	bluebrother	DieselHopper: well, you deleted your Rockbox build. Therefore it won't work.
20:27:46	bluebrother	yeah, that's even linked from the build download page.
20:27:52	DieselHopper	Well my computer says that there is no iPod connected, nor does iTunes.
20:28:11	DieselHopper	nor does bootloader
20:28:29	bluebrother	the bootloader does not connect to the internet, a download page or Itunes.
20:28:40	Llorean	Buschel: I should use 0xef as per the comment, or 0xf5 as per the old value?
20:28:40	DieselHopper	I know this
20:28:47	bluebrother	go into emergency disc mode and reinstall a Rockbox build. The FAQ tells you how to do this
20:29:00	DieselHopper	page link?
20:29:30	Buschel	Llorean: 0xf5 was set in svn before this change
20:29:52	Llorean	The comment says 0xef is the OF value though.
20:29:58	Llorean	But I'll use f5 then
20:30:02	PaulJam	Buschel: i was wondering, did you see http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14524.msg128220#msg128220 ? the user seems to get an error on boot with a CF card since one of your other power saving commits.
20:30:03	bluebrother	IpodFAQ
20:30:26	DieselHopper	Is this on a website?>
20:30:32	DieselHopper	*->
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20:30:47	bertrik	Buschel, r17721 definitely changes more than just D1REGC1 for the nano
20:30:51	bluebrother	you know about the Rockbox website? The site with loads of information about Rockbox?
20:31:04	DieselHopper	Yeah am I clicking on Manual?
20:31:16	Buschel	Llorean: and of course i've overseen another thing -> D3REGC1 (tested as LCD power supply) -> next candidate. was switched from 0xf5 (3.0V) to 0xf1 (2.6V)
20:31:16	bluebrother	Downloads, Installer, Forums, they even have Documentation and a Manual!
20:31:29	pixelma	Buschel: just saying "tested" on one or two Nanos isn't always enough. There seem to be tiny differences between hardware
20:31:36	bluebrother	it even is really easy to find: just type www.rockbox.org in your browser and enjoy!
20:31:37	DieselHopper	Well let me know if you see a page called IpodFAQ, cause I sure don't. :P
20:31:49	Buschel	betrik: the changes regarding CPU voltage are not relevant as the second voltage is not used
20:32:00	bluebrother	that page is in the wiki, and it's name is IpodFAQ. But it's also linked from the manual IIRC
20:32:12	Buschel	pixelma: yes, seems so :/
20:32:14	DieselHopper	Alright, thank you.
20:32:56	bluebrother	anyway, you can simply follow the "Documentation index" from the left side navigation. If you scroll down a bit on that page you'll even get presented ... drumrolls
20:32:57	Llorean	Buschel: Testing that one now
20:33:10	bluebrother	a whole section with "FAQs" heading!
20:33:12	Llorean	Buschel: D1REGC1 didn't work.
20:33:34	DieselHopper	Phew, finally.
20:33:36	bluebrother	isn't that impressive? Amazing? Astonishing?
20:33:42		Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@atheme/member/desowin)
20:33:48	*	bluebrother should turn of his sarcastic mode
20:33:49	DieselHopper	Or even...Annoying?
20:33:50	Buschel	Llorean: ok
20:34:04	Llorean	Buschel: D3REGC1 it is.
20:34:24	Buschel	Llorean: good :)
20:34:36	bluebrother	No! It's ... great!
20:34:46	Buschel	\o/
20:34:46	Llorean	Buschel: Is it safe to just test every value between f1 and f5 to see if we can still keep it a little lower, or does it need set increments?
20:35:19	bluebrother	well, please educate yourself at least a bit before asking basic questions. It's kinda boring to indicate stuff that's not even hidden in any way and _really_ easy to find
20:35:22		Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht)
20:35:43	bluebrother	these are real people in this channel and they have a RL too. Besides some stuff to work on for Rockbox of course ...
20:36:20	Buschel	hmm, i would prefer to #ifdef this section and use the default for now. the setting for the video didn't show any problems since the power change for the 5G
20:36:45	Llorean	Buschel: Okay. I'm happy with any fix, really. :)
20:36:47	DieselHopper	Sorry I figured there was a reason for an IRC, and that people would like to be of a service to others, as apposed to continuesly writing sarcastic statements....buuuut I guess I was wrong.
20:37:04	Buschel	Llorean: like -> nano = 0xf5, video = 0xf1
20:37:45	bluebrother	people do help others, but we also expect at least some basic work done by you. We're not around for spoon-feeding others.
20:37:56	Llorean	Buschel: Makes sense to me.
20:38:02	bluebrother	and if it's really that hard to find the FAQ ... (well, it's called FAQ for a reason!)
20:38:06	Buschel	i'll submit it tomorrow morning (if noone wants to fix it now)
20:38:21	DieselHopper	Ahh I see, I guess you are right, almost linking me to a page was so much effort. : P
20:38:30	*	Buschel has no svn access now
20:38:46	BigBambi	DieselHopper: You have no idea how annoying it is to do for many people each day because they can't be bothered to search
20:38:56	Llorean	Buschel: I'd rather let you do it, just to be safe.
20:39:24	Buschel	Llorean: ok
20:39:40	DieselHopper	I just didn't know where a FAQ page was, I didn't know if he meant the Manual or if it was in Forums, or the Wiki. That's all I wanted to know, it's really not that much trouble since he's so willing to spend time writing about why he shouldn't have to.
20:39:40	Buschel	Llorean: btw, is there any FS-entry about this bug?
20:39:51	Llorean	Buschel: Hadn't entered one yet, since I was going to just contact you directly
20:40:05	Llorean	Pixelma found it on my Nano at devcon, and only one or two people have reported it in the forums so far.
20:40:15	BigBambi	DieselHopper: So that hopefully next time you will look first I imagine
20:40:15	*	bluebrother shakes head
20:40:47	bluebrother	spending like 5 minutes first checking for a FAQ would be nice IMO. You managed to find the irc link, so a FAQ shouldn't be harder to find ...
20:40:55		Quit ender` (" We're not lost. We're locationally challenged. -- John M. Ford")
20:40:56	Llorean	Buschel: For the CPU boosting on UI thing, we've got over a month to test it even if we're just going to use it temporarily for 3.0
20:41:05	bluebrother	Bagder: can we get a "FAQ" link in the left-side menu?
20:41:15	DieselHopper	Well there is a link saying "IRC" unlike the FAQ
20:41:37	bluebrother	there is a link saying "manual" and one saying "docs index". Is is _that_ hard?
20:41:55	Buschel	Llorean: if anyone could test it would be fine. question is: do we want to implement it for all targets or just for the 5G?
20:42:10	Llorean	Buschel: I think the 5G is the only place where the LCD is particularly laggy.
20:42:23	DieselHopper	Well I wasn't looking for 'manual' or 'index'.
20:42:28	Llorean	I'd be happy with it just in the list context, but I suspect that most plugins where boosting would alter performance are always boosted anyway, except maybe jewels.
20:42:29	Buschel	Llorean: the interesting thing is that we can lower the normal clock with this patch to have better runtime for some codecs :)
20:42:58	Buschel	Llorean: but that's another thing...
20:43:06	Llorean	Buschel: Might want to leave that out of 3.0, unless we can do some real testing on WPS performance (many scrolling lines + peakmeters)
20:43:56	Buschel	Llorean: of course, nothing for 3.0 −− there should be no experiments done in 3.0
20:44:13	Llorean	Well, "boost on UI use" might be considered an "experiment"
20:44:25	Llorean	But the worst that's likely to come from it is slightly reduced battery life for people who spend a lot of time scrolling.
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20:44:35	Zagor	bluebrother: adding the faq
20:44:56	bluebrother	Zagor: thanks :)
20:44:59		Quit SETH_HIKARU ()
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20:46:19	Buschel	Llorean: at least i must say that i don't want to miss the gui boost anymore on my 5G −− but i can build for my own ;-)
20:46:19		Quit DieselHopper ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
20:46:49	Llorean	Buschel: Well, I think for 3.0 we should try to make sure the UI doesn't feel laggy, even if it isn't used in the main SVN builds.
20:46:56	SETH_HIKARU	is rasher here
20:47:41	LambdaCalculus37	SETH_HIKARU: This is the last time you'll ever be told. Stop while you're ahead. You're just trolling, and pissing a lot of people off.
20:48:14	SETH_HIKARU	why would i get banned from the off topic channel for talking off topic
20:48:22	Llorean	Buschel: It's probably possible to optimize the UI itself to the point where boosting isn't needed, but if boosting works too well there won't be much encouragement to do so. Meanwhile, for the 3.0 release, we shouldn't let things like that stand in the way of a "working" solution so long as it doesn't have harmful side effects.
20:48:37	Llorean	SETH_HIKARU: You were banned for intentionally pestering users.
20:50:04	bluebrother	Llorean: btw, you're aware of that nice "no sansa found" bug in rbutil I fixed the other day (after devcon)?
20:50:11	Buschel	Llorean: has there been a timeline defined for creating the branch?
20:50:25	Llorean	bluebrother: All I know is that you mentioned it happens
20:50:36	Llorean	Buschel: Well, the goal right now is to enter freeze sometime in August.
20:50:40	bluebrother	if users run into that issue simply restart rbutil and don't use autodetection. I hope we get 1.0.6 out this weekend
20:51:12	bertrik	Are we going to make a branch or just freeze features and continue on after the release?
20:51:16	Llorean	Buschel: There's no outstanding show stopper bugs. We'll branch when we enter the freeze, patch up everything we can, and create a known issues file. Freeze is only two weeks, and we release at the end of it, no matter what.
20:51:20		Part SETH_HIKARU
20:51:26	Llorean	bertrik: Branch, so that we can use unclean fixes that don't belong in "real" SVN
20:51:46	bluebrother	mainly ipodpatcher just locked all drives during autodetection except the one he recognized. All following attempts to access the disc (like sansapatcher scanning) failed. Pretty nasty.
20:51:50	Llorean	But no development should go on in the main branch during that period, hopefully
20:52:16	Llorean	bluebrother: Okay, thanks for the tip. I'll pass that on if they run into it.
20:52:18	bluebrother	I'm rather sure that is also the issue of that guy in the forums who had issues but managed to get the bootloader installed using sansapatcher
20:52:43	bluebrother	yep, just wanted you to be informed until we release ;-)
20:52:45	Buschel	Llorean: hmm, can't we just branch off with a certain revision of the trunk and go on with development in the trunk?
20:52:58	Llorean	Buschel: That's kinda what we will do.
20:53:22	Llorean	Buschel: But ideally developers should be concentrating on bugfixes during the freeze period. Some will be suitable for the branch and the trunk, but some may only be suitable for the branch.
20:53:32	Llorean	But we don't want devs working on new features during that period.
20:54:01	Buschel	understood, so no technical but a focus issue
20:54:11	Llorean	Exactly
20:54:33	Llorean	Right now we're in the middle of selecting the Rockbox Steering Board
20:54:34	bluebrother	merging usually isn't fun so we should try to avoid it
20:54:46	Llorean	bluebrother: There will be no merging back from the 3.0 branch.
20:54:48	Buschel	will there be some integration from release to trunk or do devs need to submit to both branches then? e.g. when fixing top-issues
20:54:59	Llorean	Buschel: Need to submit to both, I think.
20:55:30	Buschel	bluebrother: you were faster :)
20:56:27	Llorean	I dunno, there may be a way to keep the two partially in sync?
20:57:04		Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
20:57:06	bluebrother	force devs to immediately merge their changes back to the other branch?
20:57:15	Llorean	But anyway, we need to pick the steering board, then assign a release coordinator, and do a tracker cleanup week before then nayway
20:57:37	*	bluebrother agrees
20:57:50	Llorean	bluebrother: If they're suitable for both branches, they should be in both. The idea with the 3.0 branch is that some changes (for example the UI boosting) may "work" but not be the most elegant solution to the problem, so they go in the 3.0 build for users, but don't get into the main trunk yet.
20:59:08	Llorean	I'd also like to squeeze in the documentation cleanup period
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20:59:18	Llorean	But that can actually be after we have a release binary, if there's not a good time for it along the way
20:59:27	Llorean	"Here's 3.0, updated manuals to come soon"
20:59:28	rasher	Llorean: and translation-touch-up!
20:59:33	Llorean	rasher: That too!
20:59:43	bluebrother	yeah, we should try to have the documentation as complete as possible.
20:59:53	Llorean	Absolutely
20:59:57	bluebrother	maybe add a short docs-and-translation freeze?
21:00
21:00:12	bluebrother	like strings freeze so translators can work
21:00:15	rasher	Doesn't really have to be a separate freeze
21:00:23	rasher	It's not like strings and ui is likely to change anyway
21:00:24	J-23	How should I configure Jabber notifications from Rockbox tracker?
21:00:29	Llorean	On the plus side, it looks like the showstopper bugs for 3.0 are already cleared up. So if all else fails, we can probably branch from today's SVN revision if things get worse again.
21:00:31	J-23	(what's notification JID?)
21:00:33	bluebrother	J-23: those don't work.
21:00:43	bluebrother	and JID is Jabber ID
21:01:40	J-23	yes, I know it, I meaned "what's notification ID" - what JID should I add to my roster
21:02:30	bluebrother	well, as Jabber notification hasn't been set up (AFAIK) there's no much point in that.
21:02:43	J-23	ok, thanks.
21:02:43	atrus	i assume it'll just send you a message, without needing to be on your roster. (which probabbly won't work with google talk...)
21:02:56	atrus	oh
21:04:14	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:04:58	n1s	One small "problem" with freezing in august is that it is around that time that the gsoc is supposed to end and we could face the pains of merging any successful projects, but I guess they could go on trunk after the branch...
21:07:01		Quit ZincAlloy ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
21:07:09	Llorean	n1s: I don't suspect it'll be too big a deal, hopefully
21:08:24	J-23	Does watching task include notifications about comments for task?
21:08:29	Llorean	Yes
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21:21:49	Buschel	Llorean: you're still here in 1 1/2 hours? my PC is clean building sim and target now −− maybe you could check the patch before i submit it then?
21:21:57	*	Buschel couldn't wait until tomorrow
21:22:45	*	Buschel also needs to adapt his WPS'es to the new progressbar syntax
21:23:07	Llorean	Buschel: I'll be around for a while yet, I think
21:23:25	Buschel	ok, I'll give you a trigger
21:25:34	Llorean	Sure thing
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21:25:53	Mode	"#rockbox -o amiconn " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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21:36:18	soap	how desired is an index for the manual?
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21:37:14	Llorean	soap: How much more could an index add on top of the ToC?
21:37:17	bluebrother	soap: I think it's a "nice to have"
21:37:27	Llorean	I'd be for it if it was useful.
21:37:42	soap	Llorean, at the least it is a ToC in alphabetical order.
21:37:58	bluebrother	Llorean: well, I usually like documentation having an index to quickly find the sections related to some topic.
21:38:18	Llorean	If we could add a significant amount more terms (or alternative terms) to it, it'd be nice
21:38:30	Llorean	Things people might look for because they don't know the right terms yet.
21:38:30	bluebrother	soap: I even tried around with an index like a year+ or so ago.
21:38:35	soap	I assume there is no easy way to build an index outside of "brute force" / manually?
21:39:04	soap	Llorean, are search terms on the forums stored anywhere?
21:39:09	bluebrother	there is a really easy way: just add \index{blah} along the text itself (not 100% sure if that was the macro)
21:39:27	Llorean	soap: I don't think so, but I don't know for certain.
21:39:37	bluebrother	then you just need to run makeidx and latex again. I think the makefile already can handle this.
21:39:48	soap	it would be very interesting and perhaps enlightening to see what search terms are used on the forums.
21:39:55	soap	(cynic adds "if any")
21:39:57	bluebrother	or at least, I think I had it handle it previously, so it shouldn't be hard to add
21:40:26	Llorean	soap: I'm sure it'd actually be really useful for building such an index
21:40:54	soap	that's where I was going with the query.
21:41:18	bluebrother	we already have 13 references to the index in the manual sources ;-)
21:42:00	bluebrother	soap: I'd really like someone working on it ;-)
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21:43:15	soap	very willing to do this, bluebrother, but I have a ton of questions, can we discuss this tomorrow? I'll be home ~23:30 CET, don't know how late of hours you keep...
21:43:36	Llorean	soap: I don't see any options relating to logging searches. :(
21:44:42	amiconn	Llorean: The server log should have them (if the search uses http GET, that is)
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21:45:35	Llorean	amiconn: We can pester scorche about it then
21:47:41	bluebrother	soap: sorry, missed your last hilight due to stupid network ... I'm usually around between 20 - 24 local time (currently CEST)
21:48:18	soap	ok, well then maybe tonight, but likely tomorrow I'll try to catch you to discuss questions.
21:48:31	soap	I need to finish some stuff still here.
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22:18:10	saratoga	Llorean: I'd like to see gui boosting as a feature on all PP targets so that we can lower the core clock more
22:18:47	saratoga	from my point of view its less about scrolling performance (or whatever) and more about the possibility of greater power savings
22:19:14	saratoga	and also giving people more incentive to optmize codecs
22:19:38		Quit MethoS_ (Connection timed out)
22:19:46	bertrik	i noticed there's already some kind of "button boost"
22:19:56	bertrik	is that related to gui boost too?
22:20:08	Llorean	saratoga: My concern is WPS updates. Peakmeters need to stay smooth, and line scrolling needs to stay smooth, and alternating sublines should work skill for image animation. As long as that happens at 24mhz, I wouldn't mind.
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22:20:27	Llorean	*still
22:22:13	Llorean	If the UI list is sluggish at 30, I'm kinda worried that the WPS won't be good at 24, but I don't have a 5G to know.
22:22:33		Quit stoffel ("leaving")
22:22:38	r4v5	So I'm trying to test the USB stack with my sansa e280. It insta-panics when I plug it in, after displaying a torn white-on-blue distorted version of the 'usb connected' picture.
22:23:11	Llorean	r4v5: You are aware that the USB stack can significantly corrupt the Sansa?
22:23:20	r4v5	i am aware, yes.
22:23:52	r4v5	But my understanding is that you can still recover in manfuacturer mode, yes?
22:23:55	bertrik	r4v5, you need to #define some symbols first (in the Makefile IIRC)
22:24:01	Llorean	As in, not just resulting in corruption of the files being copied. You shouldn't be using it unless you're working on it, so when you get errors like that you should be investigating them and fixing them.
22:24:15		Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
22:26:22	bertrik	r4v5, in build/Makefiles you need to add -DUSE_ROCKBOX_USB to the line that says export EXTRA_DEFINES=
22:27:04	saratoga	Llorean: buschel put WPS updates at a couple MHz on (I believe) the G5, so smooth updating should certainly be possible in the long term, though at present I have no unit to test it on (the sansa is always fast for me)
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22:28:08	r4v5	bertrik: I could have sworn I did that... oops, time to rebuild.
22:28:12	Llorean	saratoga: Yeah. Well, I'm only concerned about the 3.0 release at the moment, and I think this is something that can be worked out after it.
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22:28:18	bluebrother	r4v5: another option is to add two lines to firmware/export/config-e200.h ...
22:28:31	Buschel	Llorean: can you test this one? -> http://pastebin.com/mbb34757
22:29:16	saratoga	Llorean: yeah I agree that 3.0 should come first
22:29:22	BigBambi	r4v5, bertrik : You also need -DUSE_HIGH_SPEED if you want USB2
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22:29:34	bertrik	r4v5, I think the sources are not automatically rebuilt when the Makefile is modified
22:29:38	BigBambi	*if you want high speed
22:29:45	Llorean	saratoga: For 3.0, I think UI boosting is an option, but lowering the unboosted should wait
22:29:55	BigBambi	r4v5: see http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortalPlayerUsb
22:29:59	Llorean	Buschel: Sure
22:30:19	saratoga	I like the GUI boosting idea for 3.0
22:31:39	Llorean	saratoga: It still needs testing, and picking a good "when do I unboost?" time, and such
22:31:45	Llorean	Don't want it too slow or too fast.
22:31:54	Llorean	But we've got time for that, for certain
22:32:05	Llorean	I'd also like to see Sansa charging.
22:32:15	*	Llorean doesn't think we should release for any targets that won't charge in Rockbox
22:32:55	Llorean	Buschel: My Nano boots fine with that build
22:33:14	Buschel	Llorean: ok, then i'll submit in a few minutes
22:33:38	saratoga	the Sansa charging thing is difficult since we don't really know if it matters that the charger sometimes doesn't cut off when its supposed to
22:33:57	saratoga	in theory it doesn't matter since it should "charge" at zero current anyway, but who knows if it really does that
22:34:40	Llorean	saratoga: Well, if we can't get it tested and worked out by then, maybe disable the option to charge-only so that Rockbox always reboots into the OF on Sansa
22:34:54	Llorean	I just don't want people being stuck with it seeming like it should be charging, but nothing happening.
22:35:14	saratoga	i suppose i could make some measurements and see what the charger is actually doing, but a better solution might be to just have a failsafe that kills the charger after 3 hours no matter what so that you can't over charge the battery
22:35:23	Llorean	I consider that a "silent failure" which is bad for a behaviour that seems reasonable to expect for users.
22:35:32	saratoga	i'm more concerned about blowing up a battery
22:35:50	saratoga	i hear lipoly batteries catch fire quite easily
22:35:50	Llorean	saratoga: Is there any way to query the charger, and kill it if it is in an unknown or inappropriate state?
22:36:32	saratoga	the charger can read the battery voltage I think (ask Bertrik he knows the details), but its really a matter of knowing how much current the battery is taking while you charge
22:36:39	bertrik	Llorean, there are bits to detect end-of-charge (does not always seem to get set at end of charge) and for over-temperature
22:37:02	saratoga	bertrik: can we read the charge current?
22:37:14	Llorean	bertrik: How do we know it doesn't get set at the end of charge, then?
22:37:16	bertrik	Someone made some current measurements during charge, I really need to look closer at them
22:37:25	Llorean	I mean, if it's not set, what other clue do we have that tells us it didn't get set at the right time/
22:37:53	bertrik	Llorean, because it seemingly never stops charging while the voltage keeps floating at the termination voltage
22:38:11	Llorean	Can we just query the voltage every 15 minutes then, and terminate it ourselves?
22:38:16	Llorean	Or every X time.
22:38:20	bertrik	saratoga, no, we cannot measure the current AFAIK
22:38:39	Llorean	Like, if the voltage is above X value for X queries, kill it.
22:38:45		Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")
22:39:19	saratoga	it would make sense that theres no resistor in series, it'd waste power and be difficult to calibrate
22:40:04	saratoga	Llorean: I would assume rockbox could fork a thread that does that, but i don't know much about how that sort of tihng works
22:40:04	bertrik	Llorean, I don't know if that's a good way of shutting down
22:40:21	saratoga	i'd be happy with a fixed time out for the charger
22:40:25	bertrik	Maybe I just need to experiment a bit more
22:40:30	saratoga	theres really no reason to charge for more then 3 or 4 hours anyway
22:40:54	Llorean	saratoga: But if a battery is only down 10% and someone gets the "it doesn't cut off" problem, 3 or 4 hours can be a long time
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22:41:08	bertrik	saratoga, yeah most charging algorithms say that the charger should also have a time limit
22:41:35	saratoga	Llorean: as the battery charges the impedance rises, so the current delivered drops anyway
22:41:42	Llorean	Instead of a fixed time, can we approximate a reasonable maximum based on percentage?
22:41:56		Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
22:42:19	saratoga	in theory it'd deliver no current at all if the battery is already charged, but in practice it'll still give it some, which is why we should guard against the possibility of someone leaving it charging for a month with the charger trickling a couple mA continuously
22:42:31	Llorean	Aaaah
22:42:41	saratoga	i don't think theres any risk here, mostly just that you'd slowly degrade the battery
22:42:47	Llorean	Well, as long as the people more knowledgeable than me say "this solution ought to be good enough" :)
22:43:03	saratoga	well to be fair i read a couple papers on lipoly charging, but i'm not really an expert
22:43:13	Llorean	Still, much more knowledge than I have.
22:43:33	Llorean	But we can debate what to do as we get closer to the freeze, if the status of the patch hasn't changed much.
22:43:42	saratoga	should probably measure (or find if someone else did this) what the long term current trends to
22:44:19	saratoga	might actually be worth intentionally overcharging my battery just to see how much current it will really trickle with
22:44:34	Llorean	saratoga: They sell replacements anyway, right?
22:44:40	saratoga	yes they're dirt cheap
22:44:56	bertrik	Other more minor leftover problems:
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22:45:27	Llorean	Know the tracker number for Sansa charging, by chance?
22:45:27	bertrik	1) Using the RTCSUPP voltage now to monitor charging voltage as the official BVDD channels seems to give garbage (too high) voltage
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22:45:42	bertrik	8363
22:46:32	Llorean	Thanks
22:46:33	bertrik	2) the state machine is very simple now, otherwise it easily gets confused by transient values in the charger status registers
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22:46:55	*	Llorean adds "Due in 3.0"
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22:47:57	saratoga	bertrik: confused how? like it needs some debouncing?
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22:49:24	bertrik	the temperature-high bit gets set during plugin, making charging stop immediately IIRC
22:50:32	r4v5	when it stops charging does it then run off of usb power or start draining the battery again?
22:51:02	preglow	Llorean: has there been any discussions on what targets to release 3.0 for?
22:51:15	bertrik	r4v5, I think it keeps running from the USB and does not drain the battery
22:51:24	Llorean	preglow: The ideal is "everything supported, unless specific ones have target-specific showstoppers"
22:51:30	preglow	hrm
22:51:36	Llorean	Personally, I'm against any that have charging issues.
22:51:46	preglow	i think i'd still be a bit bothered with shipping anything that needs usb hacks
22:51:52	preglow	and i agree on the charging
22:51:56	Llorean	iPod Disk Mode isn't bad, I think
22:51:59	Llorean	I'm not sure about the H10s.
22:52:08	saratoga	the sansa disk mode isn't a big deal actually
22:52:13	preglow	well, we don't do ipod charging yet, do we?
22:52:18	saratoga	while i'd like to see USB support, it works well enough that I don't really care
22:52:22	preglow	that is, properly
22:52:22	bertrik	I think the current workaround with the bootloader booting into OF when USB is connected is quite acceptable
22:52:25	Llorean	preglow: I'm pretty sure we do charge on iPod now.
22:52:48	preglow	Llorean: properly, full-on fast charging?
22:52:55	Llorean	And actually, I've used the USB stack some with my nano without any problems. And it works great on my Gigabeast, though that's not PP.
22:53:19	Llorean	preglow: Well, it requests full current from the PC. I haven't timed it to see how long it takes though, so I don't know if it's a sansa-like situation where there's something else throttling it.
22:53:33	preglow	hmm, ok
22:53:46	preglow	well, that makes ipod release sound better for me, then
22:53:49	pixelma	well... booting into OF is another problem as it doesn't always work reliably from a running Rockbox. I don't think that was addressed...
22:53:51	Llorean	But that'll be one thing to check on.
22:53:59	Llorean	pixelma: Yeah, we need to get back to solid rebooting
22:54:13	Llorean	And if possible figure out a way to keep it from reporting missing drivers.
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22:54:31	Llorean	Again though, if "charging while using Rockbox" doesn't work, I think an option is to just disable that and always reboot to disk mode.
22:54:32	preglow	i wonder if the bug with the hold switch sometimes messing up other buttons is there on ipods
22:54:37	preglow	haven't used my nano in a good while
22:54:46	Llorean	preglow: Haven't seen any recent reports of it, at least.
22:55:14	Llorean	Another option with 3.0 is to designate two categories of targets.
22:55:21	Llorean	"Release" and "Beta" taregets
22:55:22	Llorean	targets
22:55:30	Llorean	Beta ones being those that work, but not as well as the full release ones.
22:55:35	Llorean	That'd be most of our portalplayer pals.
22:56:23	preglow	hm
22:56:39	preglow	well, i guess that's a decent enough idea
22:56:44	pixelma	I've recently seen "scrollwheel doesn't work right after switching hold off" myself on amiconn's Mini
22:57:14	saratoga	whats holding up USB anyway?
22:57:21	saratoga	just the hub issue or is it worse then that?
22:57:29	Llorean	saratoga: Just the hub issue for everything but the Sansa
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22:57:51	Llorean	The Sansa has some sort of problem with the SD driver, iirc, that can result in more serious problems.
22:58:32	preglow	pixelma: yeah, i'm quite sure there are still wheel/button driver problems
22:59:23	pixelma	Llorean, saratoga: "more serious problems" = file system corruption, I believe
22:59:28	preglow	aye
23:00
23:00:09	preglow	some weird-ass shit, that, i wonde rat which level it corrupts things
23:00:30	preglow	hmm, right, timing, pretty much has to be the controller doing something to the command/data stream
23:01:21	*	rasher gets out the MrH-Signal lamp
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23:01:57	saratoga	regarding the SD issue, it looks like its nearly fixed: FS #8663
23:02:08	preglow	saratoga: yeah, but doesn't that bring up another problem?
23:02:13	saratoga	at least people in that thread are reporting that they can no longer get corrupted files
23:02:47	saratoga	preglow: not that I know of, but I haven't tried using a microsd card
23:03:15	*	Llorean adds another task to the due in 3.0 list.
23:03:27	Llorean	I'd recommend any time there's a patch or bug of interest, add "due in 3.0"
23:04:12	saratoga	someone with more free time then me write a disk driver test plugin
23:04:17	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:10:17	Seraphil	is there any work on tv-out via dock on any ipod-ports?
23:10:21	Seraphil	at all?
23:10:53	Bagder	no
23:11:27	Bagder	so you won't step on any toes when you start on it!
23:11:39	Seraphil	hehe
23:11:50	Seraphil	a bit lacking in c++/assembly programming though
23:12:10	Llorean	Seraphil: Well, with nobody working on it, you've got time to learn. :)
23:12:17	Seraphil	:)
23:14:42	shotofadds	Hi guys. I've been trying to figure out why playback doesn't actually start on the D2 until the audio buffer is full. It seems that when pcmbuf_play_start() is called pcmbuf_unplayed_bytes is 0, therefore failing the 'if' condition that kicks off playback. Any ideas why this might be?
23:14:53		Quit n1s ()
23:14:56	*	preglow sets up his new macbook for rockbox development
23:15:11	*	Horscht sets preglow on fire
23:15:26	*	preglow burns
23:15:58	*	Horscht enjoys the wamrth
23:16:08	Horscht	warmth even
23:16:15	Llorean	preglow: Willing to help out with rbutil builds? If I recall they were short of people who could compile the mac version.
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23:16:39	preglow	Llorean: sure
23:17:16	preglow	Llorean: i'm pretty new to it still, though, but if someone can provide instructions on what to do i'm good to go
23:17:24	Llorean	I don't know how myself, honestly. :)
23:17:39	Bagder	I think jd has provided a login to domonoky for that now
23:17:44	Llorean	I just know that they want to get a 1.0.6 release out, and the latest mac binary is still 1.0.4 because we had nobody to build 1.0.5
23:17:49	Llorean	Aah, that's graet.
23:17:51	Llorean	great too
23:17:54	Bagder	there is a 1.0.5 there now
23:18:02	*	Buschel finished changing his WPS'es to viewports and new progressbar
23:18:07	Buschel	quite a lot of work
23:18:40	Buschel	good night!
23:18:41	*	ZincAlloy agrees
23:18:44		Quit Buschel ()
23:19:23	bertrik	Llorean, I think I'll create a wiki about sansa charging with as much as possible of the information collected so far from the tracker and forums, ok?
23:19:36	Llorean	bertrik: Can't hurt.
23:22:07		Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
23:25:38	bluebrother	preglow: building rbutil is fairly easy −− check RockboxUtilityDevelopment. You might also want to have a look at the osx_deploy script in the rbutilqt folder
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23:25:53	bluebrother	well, it's fairly easy as far as I know ;-)
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23:31:04	r4v5	what did saratoga mean by 'disk driver test'?
23:31:19	*	shotofadds gives up on pcmbuf.c and has a nice cup of tea instead. I'll throw my question out to the dev ml later and hope someone bites :)
23:31:35	Llorean	r4v5: To help determine if bugs like the one on the Sansa are still present after attempts to fix them.
23:31:52	Llorean	shotofadds: ML is a good idea for difficult questions, more people will see it.
23:34:27	preglow	shotofadds: still no bloody luck on seeing sd card data :/
23:37:47	r4v5	Llorean: yeah, but what would it do?
23:38:14	pixelma	Llorean: now that your Nano is up to date and working, maybe you could check FS #8970 again? Judging from the sim which showed symptoms before, it is really fixed but I'd like confirmation from someone testing on target before closing
23:39:09	pixelma	or close it yourself
23:39:30	Llorean	r4v5: Not sure.
23:40:31	Llorean	pixelma: I should just enter quickscreen from WPS and see if it shows WPS elements?
23:40:33	r4v5	i thought the corruption only happened when usb was transferred; otherwise, it wouldn't be too hard to just automate copying a file from msd to internal flash and back until it corrupts, would it?
23:41:02	Llorean	r4v5: One theory is that writes happen relatively rarely in general use, so it's just significantly less likely
23:41:10	preglow	hrmr
23:41:18	preglow	anyone else tried running rockboxdev.sh on os x?
23:41:29	r4v5	Oh, so the bug might not be USB but simply exposed because nothing else writes enough data to trip it.
23:41:36	Llorean	r4v5: Exactly
23:41:38	pixelma	Llorean: it froze the Nano when the lines had to scroll (German settings had a long name, maybe you could also use a very big font to try)
23:42:15		Quit MethoS- (Connection timed out)
23:42:17	rasher	preglow: I
23:42:24	rasher	preglow: I'm pretty sure it worked at some point
23:42:44	preglow	sure didn't here
23:42:52	preglow	not one of the cross compilers got a full tool set
23:43:02	pixelma	hmm... wasn't there something in the bug tracker?
23:43:14	Llorean	pixelma: Lines are scrolling fine, in german, in WPS quickscreen
23:43:27	pixelma	nice, thanks
23:43:29	preglow	m68k didn't even get a blood bin/ dir
23:44:58	gevaerts	shotofadds: maybe you already know this, but on 8GB D2s (or at least on mine), the NAND access is still problematic. I have to retry at least ten times to get a working boot, and it only sees about half of my audio files
23:45:55	preglow	yeah, mine is problematic too
23:46:01	pixelma	preglow: somehow related to http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9006 ? Though I have no idea...
23:46:06	r4v5	psh, you don't need bin/, it's purely vestigial.
23:46:52	preglow	pixelma: nah, that is a rockbox build, i can't even get gcc to build
23:46:58	preglow	pixelma: still bad, of course
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23:47:41	Bagder	preglow: I'm quite sure others have ran it fine on macos
23:48:35	rasher	FS #6340 and FS #6499 fixed OS X related issues.
23:49:51	PaulJam	pixelma: i just looked at the german translation and saw VOICE_QUICKSCREEN uses the english term. was that intended?
23:50:05	gevaerts	The manual for the Archos Recorder says about wavplay 'This plugin is for demo purposes only. It is planned to have Wavplay as part of the normal playback engine in Rockbox version 3.1.'. Shouldn't that be 'in a later release' ?
23:50:42	snaga	my Sansa e280 just went into panic mode while playing a game. does anyone know how to get it out? Using Rockbox, not sure what version.
23:50:47	preglow	Bagder: i'll see if i can dig up specifics on what went wrong
23:51:00	gevaerts	snaga: hold the power key for at least 20..30 seconds
23:51:09	snaga	ok
23:51:25	pixelma	PaulJam: more or less yes. I didn't find a proper expression for it and thought it would still be nicer than trying too hard to find a word that is not understood in the end. If you have a better suggestion...
23:51:43	Llorean	gevaerts: Well, at the time it was on the list of planned features for 3.1. That might do with reconsidering now, though.
23:52:08	snaga	gevaerts: thanks, that worked. didn't think it needed to be that long...
23:52:37	gevaerts	Llorean: exactly. Especially since the revised policy of releasing what's there and not what we would like to be there
23:53:08	Llorean	gevaerts: Well, we can leave it as "it is planned"
23:53:17	gevaerts	Llorean: OK. I'll fix it
23:53:20		Quit Schmogel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:53:25	Llorean	Fixing it is good too.
23:53:26	Llorean	Either way
23:55:18	Llorean	On a note related to upcoming cleanups, do we want to start more aggressively closing old feature requests, and only keep ones that we'd have "sponsored" under the new system?
23:55:30	Bagder	yes
23:56:22	PaulJam	pixelma: not really. maybe "Schnelleinstellungen"? sounds silly somehow, but i'm not sure how german voice synthesis would handle the english "Quickscreen".
23:56:30	gevaerts	How do we do that ? The problem I see is that "we" don't sponsor, individual devs do, and they will disagree on what should stay
23:57:01	Llorean	gevaerts: Easy, we close them all
23:57:12	Bagder	gevaerts: if we'd close one too many, we can always re-open or re-enter if a dev shows up and sponsors it
23:57:14	Llorean	Then anyone interested in looking for one can go through the closed ones and reopen any. :-P
23:57:26		Quit bertrik ("boot to windows")
23:57:28	gevaerts	That's true.
23:57:38	*	gevaerts withdraws his objections
23:57:49		Quit ender` (" Kids. You gotta love them. I adore children. A little salt, a squeeze of lemon--perfect. -- Harry Dresden")
23:58:02		Quit snaga ("Ex-Chat")

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