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#rockbox log for 2008-07-09

00:01:59 Join cbr|w [0] (n=cbr@
00:02:50 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:04:10 Quit midgey ()
00:04:38 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:05:56 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
00:06:11shotofaddsMarcGuay: is that with the v3 patch against current svn? do you know if there are different c100 hardware revisions?
00:09:51 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:10:56 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:11:13MarcGuayshotofadds: I tried both yours and lowlight's. The only difference I can think of is that his is a 140 and mine's a 150. Which, now that I realize we're dealing with the NAND flash, would probably make a difference...
00:12:47 Join _vertic23 [0] (
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00:13:25stripwaxShould I be concerned/worry/carry when objdump reports that a function in a codec is in the ".iram" section rather than ".icode"? Or is that just how it works for arm?
00:14:26 Quit ender` (" The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid. -- Art Spander")
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00:15:41 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")
00:18:00 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
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00:19:06linuxstbstripwax: What does the .map file say for that codec?
00:20:06 Join fdinel [0] (
00:21:28stripwaxlinuxstb - the map file doesn't list all of the functions, but does show a number in .icode section
00:21:32 Join ender` [0] (
00:21:34 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:22:09stripwax^a number of functions, of course, not just a decimal..
00:22:32stripwaxbut objdump doesn't seem to make a distinction between icode/irodata/etc
00:23:05stripwaxonly iram/ibss
00:23:49shotofaddsMarcGuay: the capacity shouldn't matter - i'd expect it to show a different NAND chip id. does your c150 have the same firmware version as the c140 (just so we can discount different h/w versions as per m200)?
00:23:49linuxstbstripwax: That seems fine - the .lds file specifies .iram and .ibss. .iram contains .icode, .irodata and .idata
00:25:04stripwaxOk, thanks. Just tying together the various pieces needed for profiling
00:26:45 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
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00:34:28stripwaxSo I guess I can parse the map file to work out which flavour of objdump to execute on the object file ("architecture: arm" => arm-elf-objdump; ...); or is there an easier way?
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00:36:21 Join PurityOfEssence [0] (
00:37:37 Part pixelma
00:38:43 Quit shotofadds (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:40:09 Join xxbatman94xx [0] (i=d1ad5e65@gateway/web/ajax/
00:40:49xxbatman94xxdoes anybody know what the status is on the lcd fix for the ipod photo
00:41:23PurityOfEssencepeople of rockbox, this is to report that i had no problem running your linux binary for rockbox utility on a 64 bit utility
00:41:42 Join DerPapst [0] (
00:43:08DerPapstr17988 doesn't make sense. at least not for the page up and page down buttons.
00:43:26linuxstbDerPapst: It's been discussed here earlier...
00:43:27DerPapst(changing sim buttons for the iPod sim)
00:43:31DerPapstah ok
00:43:46linuxstbAlthough I'm not sure what the conclusion was... MarcGuay ?
00:44:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:45:09DerPapstcan you point me at the time?
00:45:29MarcGuaylinuxstb, DerPapst: I don't think a conclusion was reached. The proper solution is going to take a while, so we have a choice now between two bad fixes.
00:45:56linuxstbDerPapst: Starting at about 19:10 CEST
00:46:24linuxstbMarcGuay: Am I right in thinking that the up/down keys now scroll in the opposite directions in lists?
00:46:37linuxstb(i.e. unintuitively)
00:46:41 Quit xxbatman94xx (" ajax IRC Client")
00:46:42DerPapstthat's why it's confusing
00:47:05linuxstbThen I would vote for reverting the change to the sim, and fixing the background image at some point.
00:47:15MarcGuaylinuxstb: Yes, but it's correct with the background image. Those are the choices, depends which one you think is more valuable, bad instructions or bad inuitivity (is that a word?)
00:47:21 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:47:24MarcGuaylinuxstb: That's fine with me.
00:48:37linuxstbLooking at the images, a quick-and-dirty fix to the bmps should be possible....
00:48:47scorche|shlinuxstb: do you still think you can have a look at working on the themes site a bit more in a week or 2?
00:49:27linuxstbscorche|sh: Yes. At the very least, I'll clean up the code and publish it, but I expect I will also do some work as well.
00:50:07scorche|shlinuxstb: ok...thanks
00:50:19MarcGuayshotofadds: There may be a hardware difference. I cannot upgrade/downgrade to firmware v1.0.005A from v2.0008A. We should verify that lowlight's is running v1.
00:50:23*linuxstb decides to edit the ipod sim backdrops...
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00:53:41 Quit ender` (" Programming is like sex becuse: 21. Sometimes its fun to use expensive toys.")
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00:57:23DerPapstbtw, battleship works pretty well for the iPod video already. :)
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01:00:13PurityOfEssencecan anyone tell me what the default theme is? (i decided i quite liked it)
01:01:22DerPapstcabbie v2.0
01:02:39 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
01:03:30PurityOfEssencethanks :)
01:04:13 Quit desowin (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:04:38PaulJamDerPapst: i'm just wondering, was it intended that rockblox1d doesn't start with a score of 0?
01:04:43PurityOfEssencegreat stuff all, good work
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01:05:49DerPapstPaulJam: yes. but i figured a random score would be more fun :P
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01:27:46linuxstbMarcGuay: Committed... (reverted your commit and fixed the bitmaps)
01:33:09MarcGuayDoes anybody know who ended up with DavideNYC's c100? I'm wondering what firmware version it's running. linuxstb: You work quick. :) That's definitely closer to perfect than the other 2 options.
01:34:08linuxstbMarcGuay: What were the other 2 options? Maybe I've misunderstood...
01:34:40MarcGuaylinuxstb: Having the background image lie to you or have your instincts lie to you. :)
01:34:44stripwaxAdded : fixes building profiling builds on (at least) ipod video; fixes to profiling code and tools
01:36:19linuxstbMarcGuay: I've got that c100 - or at least, the bits from it... All DavideNYC sent me was the motherboard, with the battery terminals removed. So it's going to need a little repairing to hook power up to it.
01:37:15MarcGuaylinuxstb: Okay. I'm just thinking that if there was a hardware revision and I have a different version than that one, I might have to break mine open.
01:37:40MarcGuayI'm looking at tarsius' photos now to see if there are any differences.
01:37:56 Quit jfc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:38:33linuxstbMarcGuay: I haven't been keeping up - am I right in thinking there is some code that detects the NAND successfully on one c100 but not on yours?
01:38:39stripwaxAdded : turn the Cube into the Cobra Mk III from Elite
01:38:50MarcGuaylinuxstb: Yep.
01:38:53stripwaxSorry, no lighting effects yet :)
01:38:57linuxstbstripwax: Now that's the patch I've been waiting for ;)
01:39:24stripwaxSeriously, it's been around a while, but figured since I'm posting a patch anyways I might as well stick this one up too :)
01:39:33stripwaxOne sec for screenshot, will have to build sim..
01:40:00 Nick MarcGuay is now known as MarcGuayAway (
01:41:00 Join Kinky [0] (
01:41:19linuxstbstripwax: Don't worry, I can try it out...
01:41:44KinkyI made a huge vista discovery today after working all day to get rockbox installed I finally got it to work!
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01:42:13linuxstbstripwax: Fun ;)
01:42:14stripwaxGot rockbox to work; or got Vista to work? :)
01:42:35linuxstbstripwax: How fast is it on a real target?
01:42:47stripwaxlinuxstb- pretty slow on ipod 5g..
01:42:52Kinkyafter plugging it in, and watching vista "find" it, I right clicked on it in my computer, told it to load as portable device!
01:43:02stripwaxtime to hand-optimise the triangle filling code..
01:43:05kushal_12_27_200Hello, I noticed that the rbutilqt was updated at but my Intel Macbook with 10.4.11 still won't work with it
01:43:07Kinkyand then used the rockbox utility and it worked like a charm
01:43:32kushal_12_27_200Kinky, how did you get rbutilqt to work on your mac?
01:43:58stripwaxlinuxstb - Cube doesn't report its own fps though (or does it?)
01:44:02kushal_12_27_200I mean 1.0.4 works on my computer but not 1.0.5 or 1.0.6
01:44:08KinkyI have fink installed and it already had the required lib files
01:44:20kushal_12_27_200how do I install fink?
01:44:21Kinkyand I have Leopard if that matters
01:44:26kushal_12_27_200oh ...
01:44:31Kinkygoogle for it, I've had it for so long I forgot
01:44:35Kinkybut it's an easy install
01:44:52linuxstbstripwax: I don't know
01:44:53Kinkyfink makes installing things of the *nix family sooooo easy on mac
01:45:29stripwaxlinuxstb - I just meant, does the cube plugin show the framerate
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01:45:42stripwaxbecause I didn't think it did, but to be honest haven't actually looked
01:46:04linuxstbNot by default at least...
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01:47:15kushal_12_27_200is it possible to play the audio only from an mp4 video using rockbox in the sansa c250?
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01:49:41scorche|shdepends on what is...blah
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01:53:24*stripwax continues to build sim .. time passes ..
01:53:26PaulJamstripwax: could it be that this MEM_FUNCTION_WRAPPERS(rb); thing is needed in your cube patch? i get an error during compiling.
01:54:25stripwaxWhat's the error?
01:54:52PaulJamundefined reference to `memcpy'
01:54:52stripwaxI've probably ballsed the patch if that is indeed a problem
01:54:59stripwaxmemcpy.. hm.. one sec..
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01:55:52stripwaxHm, I'm not using memcpy ..
01:55:59 Quit homielowe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:57:21stripwaxPaulJam - any more info on where you're getting that error, what platform/build type?
01:57:41PaulJamh300 normal build
01:58:33PaulJamwhen i add that macro then it compiles fine
01:59:47stripwaxThat is very strange, as I don't have that macro, and cube.c doesn't use memcpy, and builds fine for me (on ipod5g normal build). Is there a specific line it complains about? wonder if gcc is inserting a secret memcpy inside some structure initialiser or something
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02:03:16stripwaxThat's pretty crazy, it shouldn't need that macro
02:03:53safetydanyeah gcc will do that to you if you're not careful
02:04:06stripwaxI bet its this line: "const struct shape myshape = shapes[1]"
02:04:36stripwaxPaulJam - if you delete that line, and replace myshape below it with shapes[1], does it work?
02:04:48Kinkywell not to be a kill joy but although I got vista to install rockbox on the r series I cannot get the boot loader to work
02:04:58stripwaxBtw user-selectable shapes (increment/decrement shapes index) would be neat..
02:05:08stripwaxand pretty trivial..
02:09:11 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:09:11PaulJamstripwax: should i replace every occurance of myshape with shapes[1] ?
02:09:16 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
02:09:23stripwaxscreenshot at
02:10:19stripwaxPaulJam - only on lines 754 and 766-768
02:10:41 Join linuxstb__ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
02:11:13stripwaxalthough that doesn't really show off that the faces are nontriangular :)
02:11:29stripwax(because those ones all are..)
02:13:05stripwax shows it off a bit better
02:14:20PaulJamstripwax: still doesn't work, but the location slightly changed: "cube.c:(.text+0x2c4): undefined reference to `memcpy'"
02:14:47Kinkyis there a way to get the e200r series to use the bootloader or does anyone know? I've tried all the hints I can find
02:15:44LloreanKinky: I don't understand what you're asking.
02:15:52LloreanThe installation instructions are instructions of installing the bootloader.
02:16:30Kinkywell I was able to get rockbox to "install" and I can even get all the extras like themes to install and I can see the files when I explore there but it still boots into rhapsody
02:16:38Kinkyso I am assuming it's a bootloader issue
02:17:03LloreanWell "installing" rockbox is just unzipping a file to the player
02:17:04scorche|shdoes rbutil say that the bootloader was installed successfully?
02:17:11Kinkyyes it does
02:17:15Lloreanscorche|sh: rbutil doesn't work with -R series, I thought
02:17:23scorche|shLlorean: i wouldnt know
02:17:32KinkyI saw a few places that said yes and some that say no so I gave it a whirl
02:17:48scorche|shKinky: try the manual install method as mentioned in the manual
02:17:58stripwaxPaulJam - sigh, right.. in that case it's confirmed what I suspected, and the following would also need to change: line 599, change to const struct shape * myshape line 605-610, change myshape.faces to myshape->faces etc , line 768 chahge to cube_draw(&myshape). That'll probably scotch it
02:18:00KinkyI am headed there next actually thanks
02:18:18stripwaxOdd that it works for me without that macro though
02:18:37LloreanOn a completely unrelated note:
02:19:20LloreanHow do we feel about the Voice UI in regard to the release? Do we advertise it as a major feature, or because it's buggy do we play it down and mention it's "there, but not finalized" or something?
02:20:59PaulJamstripwax: have you tried compiling for the h300?
02:21:30PaulJambtw, should i undo the previous changes first?
02:21:41stripwaxno, but my build machine is this laptop and I'm still recompiling for sim. I'll have an updated patch in a moment
02:21:50stripwaxthis laptop is not a powerful laptop
02:24:30 Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε")
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02:28:23stripwaxPaulJam - patch updated
02:30:37PaulJamcompiles fine now
02:35:09stripwaxcool :)
02:35:48stripwaxnow, I really must go to bed, as I'm up again in 6 hours.. night!
02:35:53 Nick MarcGuayAway is now known as MarcGuay (
02:36:38MarcGuayLlorean: Any idea if RButil has a useful message if you try to install on an R series?
02:36:57MarcGuayKinky: What did RBUtil say when you selected "Install bootloader"?
02:37:19 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:38:14LloreanMarcGuay: No clue. I've got minimal experience with an R.
02:38:28Kinkyit says it's installed but it still boots to the sansa software
02:38:57MarcGuayThat's not so great. bat-signal to bluebrother.
02:39:33MarcGuayKinky: To install the bootloader on the R you need to follow the instructions in the wiki, which are linked to from the manual.
02:39:59MarcGuayThey may be slightly different for Vista. It would be nice if you could document those differences.
02:40:03KinkyI did thrice, exactly as they were listed and still it won't kick into the bootloader
02:40:17KinkyI'd love to if I could get it to work haha
02:40:33MarcGuayYou verified that it's a true-Rhapsody and not a v2 model?
02:40:38Kinkyoh yeah
02:40:55KinkyI'm thiiiiissssssss close to a total format haha
02:41:15MarcGuayThat's probably a waste of time.
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02:42:09Kinkyyeah but it makes me feel better
02:42:11MarcGuayLlorean: What's the difference between the ipod rebooting to the OF for charging & file transfer and the Sansas?
02:42:22LloreanKinky: When you copy the PP5022.mi4 to your sansa, does it say on its own screen that it's updating the firmware, after you unplug it?
02:42:46LloreanKinky: And WHICH PP5022.mi4 is it that you've copied over?
02:42:53MarcGuayKinky: And you're sure you've renamed the files are directed?
02:42:58LloreanIf you're not getting Rockbox, it's very likely that you're just copying over an unmodified one.
02:43:08Kinkyrenamed yes, not sure what you mean by which on the mi4
02:43:25LloreanKinky: You're supposed to download two PP5022.MI4 files, one from a .zip and one directly
02:43:39Kinkyhmmmm interesting
02:43:45KinkyI only read about one
02:43:48LloreanMarcGuay: iPods have a disk mode that's stored in ROM. Even if the disk is completely removed, it'll still work. This is what we reboot to, rather than a full version of the OF.
02:44:02LloreanKinky: I see it very clearly in the windows instructions here:
02:44:11KinkyI'm sure I just overlooked it
02:44:12LloreanThe linux ones link to the same file
02:44:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:44:49MarcGuayLlorean: I see. And you find that it causes less user confusion than the Sansas?
02:44:57KinkyI'm checking again
02:45:04LloreanMarcGuay: I think both cause significant user confusion
02:45:08d1sturbWPS no longer shows up. Can anyone help me?
02:45:10LloreanThe iPod one probably causes MORE
02:45:24LloreanMostly because it's monochrome, so they think it's something we made mocked up to look like the OF USB
02:45:30MarcGuayd1sturb: Syntax changed, check the CustomWPS wiki page.
02:45:31LloreanPeople consistently think it's part of our software.
02:45:37MarcGuay%P, %pb and %m.
02:46:10LloreanThe reason I differentiated the Sansas in my earlier comments was because Rockbox USB mode on Sansa can cause whole filesystem corruption, while other PP devices should be safe
02:46:13MarcGuayLlorean: That's odd. I guess they never see it if they still with the Apple soft.
02:46:47LloreanMarcGuay: Exactly. Normally you never see it unless you hold a key combo while booting, but once you install Rockbox you see it any time you plug in a USB cable. To those not in the know, it's just Rockbox's USB screen.
02:47:10MarcGuayI was referring to the line in your 3.0 email: "specifically Rockbox not charging while connected".
02:47:38LloreanMarcGuay: Ah, that's something different entirely
02:47:46MarcGuayOr do you mean when charging-only mode is initiated?
02:48:22LloreanSince charge-only mode will also be entered if Rockbox detects a "real" charger (USB plug into a wall adapter) when it's possible to detect such
02:50:30 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
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02:55:30MarcGuayLlorean: Instead of not releasing targets we could just disabled features like that that aren't working fully yet. I think that was discussed earlier...
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02:56:34LloreanMarcGuay: Some features might be considered "fundamental" though (such as being able to charge your player). It's a matter for discussion what is "fundamental" and what can be dropped while still allowing for a release.
02:56:59MarcGuayIf it's possible a splash with "Charging isn't working yet blah blah" could do the trick. Yep. Something to think about for sure...
02:57:12LloreanPersonally, I'm for providing 3.0 binaries for all targets, but only marking some of them as "Supported" by the release, and the rest as "beta"
02:57:35LloreanIt should be pretty easy to make it clear in the release announcement and page which set are which.
02:57:57MarcGuayLlorean: I think as long as the big weird things are mentionned in very obvious places, it should work out okay
02:58:47LloreanAnyway, that's why I want to compile everyone's opinions on what target-specific blockers exist.
02:59:07LloreanThen, when it's decision time, there's a lot more data available.
02:59:53LloreanIf one or two targets have a lot of problems that I'm just not remembering, I'm more likely to be in favour of kicking them out, while if it's just a general "each target has one or two major quirks" situation then it's a bit different.
03:01:10Kinkyok, did it all again, and shazam! it's working.... thanks so very much!!! it had to be that I duplicated the two files instead of grabbing two separate files....
03:03:29kushal_12_27_200any update on libusb for rbutildqt 1.0.6 on Intel Macbook with mac os x Tiger? do we use this libusb?
03:07:35Kinkyawesome! awesome! awesome! I now have rockbox AND rhapsody in a dual boot mode and all is well in my world.... I can't say thanks enough to you for all the help
03:08:50 Nick nicktastique is now known as nicktastic (n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic)
03:10:54MarcGuaylinuxstb__: The sim bitmaps look good.
03:15:20unpaidbillare there any slick additional themes for rockbox?
03:15:20 Quit safetydan ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:16:13Lloreanunpaidbill: Yes.
03:16:33unpaidbillany with nudity?
03:16:58scorcheUncleRem1s: uhhhh...seriously now..
03:17:03DerPapsti guess you have to make those yourself
03:17:37unpaidbilli want the battery bar to be a penis that gets shorter as the battery is nearly dead, etc
03:17:44 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
03:17:44MarcGuayGodEater is a weird dude.
03:18:03scorchemaraz_: needs to learn to spell too ;)
03:18:28*scorche is having issues with tab-complete today
03:18:31Lloreanunpaidbill: You can do that. See the CustomWPS wiki page and you can learn how.
03:19:06maraz_scorche: mrr.
03:19:14unpaidbillsetting it up for a porno dude
03:19:18scorchesorry for waking you :)
03:19:20unpaidbillhe has odd requests
03:19:31scorcheunpaidbill: please stay on topic
03:19:39unpaidbilloops, my apologies
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03:22:59unpaidbillis there an ipod 80GB wit hvideo that isnt supported by rockbox? ipodpatcher.exe says it doesnt detect the ipod that i have mounted up and just copied the .rockbox directory onto!
03:23:25scorchethe classic comes in 80GB versions
03:24:02unpaidbillwell according to the rockbox/apple page i have an ipod video 80gb.. but it doesnt appear to be detecting it
03:24:10Lloreanunpaidbill: Is the default list of tracks full screen or does it only take up half the screen?
03:24:10unpaidbillgonna try the rockbox utility deal
03:24:21unpaidbillhalf the screen
03:24:27LloreanThen it's an 80gb Classic, not an 80gb Video
03:24:29unpaidbillthe other half is some annoying picture
03:24:31LloreanSorry, but Rockbox will not run on it.
03:24:41unpaidbillit plays video
03:24:45unpaidbillbut it's a classic?
03:24:49LloreanYes, the "Classic" plays video
03:24:54LloreanApple has a rather stupid naming scheme.
03:24:56unpaidbillwell damn
03:24:58scorchethe video is a specific version
03:24:59unpaidbillthanks :(
03:25:14LloreanSorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the Classic basically is stuck with the Apple software, and probably will be for some time.
03:25:25unpaidbillunfortunate, i like rockbox :(
03:25:52unpaidbilli guess this means im stuck with itunes on this thing... maybe i can sell it
03:26:03unpaidbillanyone want to buy an 80gb classic ipod :P
03:26:46scorcheagain with the off-topicness...
03:27:45KinkyI LOVE this!!
03:28:05DerPapstthe off-topicness?
03:28:09*DerPapst hides
03:28:15Kinkyhaha no the program
03:28:22Kinkymy first day of attempting install
03:28:30scorcherockbox isnt a program ;)
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03:30:59MarcGuayRockbox is love
03:33:53KinkyI must totally agree
03:33:58Kinkythis is way too much fun
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03:38:38MarcGuayIf anyone ever wants to filter Flyspray for feature requests, this link is handy:
03:40:57*Llorean thinks the quick link to feature requests should still be there.
03:41:42MarcGuayThere's no harm in looking at them.
03:42:00LloreanEspecially once it's pared down to a list of "endorsed" ones.
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03:42:59MarcGuayAny idea if the e200R not being rejected is a sansapatcher or RBUtil issue?
03:43:13MarcGuayThinking of opening a task for it.
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03:43:40LloreanI'm not wholly sure that it isn't currently impossible to distinguish them from the host side.
03:45:15MarcGuaySo if people are pointed straight to RButil for installation instead of the manual, those big red warnings should probably be on that page as well...
03:45:33LloreanProbably, yes.
03:45:41LloreanI could be wrong though about whether it's possible
03:46:09MarcGuayDo bluebrother and domonoky read the logs?
03:47:00LloreanDon't know, honestly
03:47:15scorcheone way to find out...
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03:50:26kushal_12_27_200any update on libusb for rbutildqt 1.0.6 on Intel Macbook with mac os x Tiger? do we use this libusb?
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03:50:56Lloreankushal_12_27_200: You really don't need to be asking that so often.
03:51:43LloreanIf you want to be kept abreast, file a bug report and then you'll get email notifications when the status changes. Otherwise simply have some patience, the people who'd be working on it ought to be sleeping right now.
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04:05:25d1sturbI'm back, had to go for a while. Anyway, the WPS was just working 2 days ago and now it's a basic WPS. =/
04:07:37MarcGuayd1sturb: Didn't I explain it to you?
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04:10:18d1sturbThank you, that link was more direct.
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04:28:29newbie1k-nobeHello, I'm new at Rockbox but I love it, just have a small question about themes.... Can someone help me?à
04:28:46MarcGuayAsk away.
04:29:21d1sturbLooks like no themes were updated since the change =/
04:29:27d1sturb...atleast for the nano
04:29:36newbie1k-nobeFirst, Sansa e200 V1, 2gb + 2gb microSD
04:30:33newbie1k-nobeThe default theme is fine (Now playing window) but when I load a theme, icons are all gone.
04:30:45newbie1k-nobeI know, beginners question!!!
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04:31:44newbie1k-nobeI see a progress bar and VU bars but all the rest is text.
04:32:38MarcGuaynewbie1k-nobe: You've timing is unfortunate, as d1sturb is learning as well, a change was made recently that broke a lot of themes.
04:32:53newbie1k-nobeehh I need some help to understand this!
04:33:12d1sturbI'm working on creating my own wps. Thanks for the link ;)
04:33:20MarcGuayThat screen you see (text and peak meter) means the theme is not working.
04:33:52MarcGuaynewbie1k-nobe: Be patient, surf the site for a bit and it'll start to make sense.
04:34:13newbie1k-nobeWhat are the themes that are not broken, I just need something bigger than the default and with a 'not so dark' say blue bg
04:34:51newbie1k-nobeThat also means that a new build will come out that solves this issue?
04:35:35d1sturbIt's up to the creators of the themes I would guess to fix it o_0
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04:35:56MarcGuayJdGordon will help you.
04:36:30*JdGordon will?
04:37:01newbie1k-nobeShould I repeat my question for the benefit of JdGordon?
04:37:05MarcGuaynewbie1k-nobe: It's not the build that's broken, it's the themes.
04:37:27MarcGuaynewbie1k-nobe: There are instructions on how to make your own in the wiki.
04:38:52newbie1k-nobeSeems that a lot of them are broken, is there a common problem that can be solved. If editing existing wps to make them work does the trick...
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04:39:23MarcGuaynewbie1k-nobe: Read the forum post I linked you to.
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04:48:15JdGordonkushal_12_27_200: hey, the problem is libusb isnt being compiled properly and a fix is being worked on...
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04:48:47kushal_12_27_200thanks for the update. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help
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04:56:07JdGordonkushal_12_27_200: yeah, sorry, im reading last night logs and that was before i read that domonoky gvae yo stuff to try
04:56:37kushal_12_27_200yeah, it was from your website
04:58:44JdGordonhe has access to my mac..
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05:14:26kushal_12_27_200JdGordon, I need to go now. I will be back in about 18 to 20 hours
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05:14:48d1sturbw00t, got most of my theme set up :D
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05:50:39d1sturbI created my own theme and it's loading fine. However, when I run the WPS [I'm using the simulator to try it] nothing wrong shows up, but it's still giving that ugly, screen =/
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05:56:34Lloreand1sturb: Then you didn't get everything right
05:56:43d1sturbI double checked everything
05:56:55d1sturbI fixed %pb etc
05:57:59LloreanIf it's still showing the default WPS, you've done something wrong somewhere.
05:58:11LloreanIt's possible that the progress bar wasn't the only thing wrong with it.
05:58:27d1sturbHow can I find which part of the code is messed up?
05:58:59LloreanI believe there's a -checkwps command for the simulator that can provide some hints.
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06:59:29LunarCrisisI have an m3u file with unicode filenames which I want to use in rockbox, but it doesn't seem to work as-is (after correcting for relative paths). What character encoding does rockbox use in playlists?
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07:03:42JdGordonLunarCrisis: i was under the im[pression rockbox works fine with unicode playlists
07:03:49cool_walking_Just a guess (I don't use playlists), but try renaming it to .m3u8
07:04:12LunarCrisiscool_walking_, I did try that, no luck =(
07:04:37LunarCrisisI'll double check the paths
07:05:34JdGordonthere is a codepage setting though but im not sure if that would fix anything
07:05:54JdGordonLlorean: you round?
07:06:19LunarCrisisI noticed in some m3u's I made directly in rockbox that it doesn't seem to be using utf-8
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07:08:15LloreanJdGordon: Sorta. What's up?
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07:09:28JdGordonyou mentioned people still dont like the time display in the info screen, I know this and want to do something about it... I want to pull the time/date stuff out of that screen completly and make a new menu for it and the time realted settings
07:09:37JdGordonan ideas?
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07:13:29LloreanWhat sort of ideas?
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07:13:32LloreanI think it sounds like a good idea
07:13:47LloreanSeparate them out, then create a separate "Current Time" screen
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07:14:39JdGordoni seem to remember the apply OF having a big clock display with the alarm and sleep timers under it
07:15:16LloreanWell we do have the clock plugin
07:15:23LloreanYou could just get plugin voices working. :-P
07:15:42JdGordonthats up to midgey :)
07:15:59midgeyalready done ;)
07:16:22midgeywell, sort of, i have talking in Blackjack
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07:17:36midgeyi probably did some wrong stuff to genlang and, but it will speak and tell me when I lose and ask if I want to play again
07:18:20midgeyBoth sdoyon and Badger have a patch that i've been working on. I'd like to get it posted to the tracker tomorrow
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07:33:51LunarCrisishmm, for some reason in the playlists 風の辿り着く場所.mp3 becomes 風の辿り着く場所.mp3 ...
07:34:24LunarCrisisI'm not sure what kind of encoding that is O_O
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07:41:29JdGordonin the playlist viewer?
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07:44:28LunarCrisisJdGordon, in the file, when I look at it on my computer
07:45:00LunarCrisiswhen I ls the original mp3 file I get the unicode name as above, but cat-ing the playlist I get the second thing. . .
07:45:04JdGordonin what program?
07:45:28LunarCrisisit's a utf8 terminal
07:45:49JdGordonis that a playylist rockbox generated?
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07:47:43LunarCrisiswait, let me check
07:50:12LunarCrisisyup, just made a new playlist and got the same result
08:03:20JdGordonwoo!! no RTC on the ondios :D
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08:03:41JdGordonoh crud... the c200 has a tiny screen also :(
08:03:55LloreanIt's 132 wide though, that's wider than the H10
08:05:03JdGordonim worried about height
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08:05:21JdGordontrying to figure out how to fit this screen into a short display
08:05:53amiconnJdGordon: The Ondios and the archos recorders (all 3) have the same screen, and the latter do have an RTC
08:06:34*JdGordon thought the ondios has a smaller screen
08:06:36JdGordonbut ok
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08:07:42LunarCrisiswoo, transfered the playlist over
08:08:20LunarCrisisI diffed the playlist with a playlist containing the whole directory heirarchy, then deleted the correct lines in a full playlist generated by rockbox >_>
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08:34:59B4gderseems to talk fine
08:35:09*B4gder reveals a little secret from midgey
08:35:45*JdGordon informs B4gder tat the cat was out of the bad 90min ago
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08:36:05JdGordon75min even
08:36:07*B4gder is old and slow...
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08:40:57JdGordonSo... I want to move the "sleep timer" setting to a new time/date screen, but that screen is obviously only going to be there is there is an RTC, so is anyone not ok with that setting staying in the system menu if there is no RTC and moving it if there is?
08:43:27LloreanIf there's no RTC what's the setting for?
08:44:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:45:51JdGordonturn off in X minutes
08:46:57LloreanSorry, somehow missed the words "sleep timer"
08:47:05*Llorean must be catching some of that "old" at least.
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08:56:11B4gderI think this is the first time I'm publicly mentioning the committers list on the dev list, I wonder if this will trigger something...
08:57:47B4gderwe have 20 people missing from the list that are mentioned in COMMITTERS
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08:59:53JdGordondo those 20 know about the list?
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09:00:08B4gderI would think they're just inactive in general
09:00:37amiconnB4gder: Btw, why is there so much delay from sending a mail to one of the mls until it reached all recipients?
09:00:58*amiconn observed delays in excess of half an hour
09:01:10B4gderI don't know exactly
09:01:18B4gderit has to do with some subscriber(s) I think
09:01:28B4gdersince that is not seen on all lists on that server
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09:15:30JdGordonwhat does everyone think of this? (dunno why the statusbar is shown twice... the 2nd one is the current time)
09:16:14JdGordonthe clock is updated every HZ/2 and is spoken when the context menu button is pressed
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10:05:11JdGordonis there a blocking talk call?
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10:08:59JdGordon:( how the heck do i get this screen to talk the time before the selected list item?!
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10:22:26*pondlife has a new battery fitted in his H380 :)
10:22:57GodEaterwas it a pain to fit ?
10:23:01pondlifeNot too bad
10:23:15pondlifeHad to get mrs pondlife to push the connector in
10:23:21pondlifeMy fingers are too fat
10:24:13pondlifeThe instructions with the battery say "You had better discharge the battery packs entirely before charging it." - should I let it run down once before the first charge?
10:24:29pondlifeOr is that some kind of Cameron-Sino talk that makes no sense?
10:24:47GodEaterthat goes against everything I've ever heard you're supposed to do with LiON
10:24:51pondlifeMe too
10:25:09GodEaterI certainly didn't do it with the battery I put in my H140
10:25:16pondlifeBut I won't be leaving this battery on charge nearly all of the time, that seemed to kill the last one
10:25:29pondlifei.e. running from powered 99% of the time
10:25:34peturI seem to read this everywhere, even with new mobile phones they say you have to charge/discharge completely three times
10:25:37GodEatersame - that's what I did with the H140 that killed it
10:25:59peturtrickle charge is not good
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10:27:44peturso it might not be the charging but the heat from being 'on'
10:27:58pondlifeOr rather from being on external power?
10:28:06*JdGordon would like some feedback on 9173
10:29:44*petur isn't sure
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10:30:15k4ythose guidelines are pretty useful
10:30:21peturtime is already displayed on the statusbar, so why have it that high in the menu struct
10:30:48JdGordonyeah, i'm not sure if it should go there or in system
10:32:34*JdGordon going for dinne
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10:48:58GodEaterB4gder: have you read this ?
10:50:29*GodEater thinks it's worth the investment in time
10:50:40GodEaterLlorean and I were chatting about it the other day
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10:52:46GodEaterI may be alone, but I think it's particularly applicable to our GSoC projects
10:52:58B4gderI agree
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11:04:01*JdGordon is somewhat surprised that the statusbar still works on screens which use viewports and not the whole screen
11:07:17JdGordon:) thats because it infact doesnt properly work :D
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11:11:07gevaertsDerPapst: could you review bits of manual I wrote for ppmviewer and rockblox1d?
11:11:37*gevaerts hopes that DerPapst reads the logs
11:11:45pondlifeJdGordon: What does #9173 gain us?
11:12:08pondlifeThe info screen should talk the time and date ok anyway.
11:12:11JdGordonmoves the time/date ou of the info screen
11:12:22pondlifeYes, but why?
11:12:25JdGordonimo they shouldnt be there
11:12:38JdGordon+ centralise all the time options
11:12:42JdGordonyes.. imo
11:13:28pondlifeThe time options are already together under System, no?
11:13:44pondlifeAh - sleep timer...
11:14:09JdGordonsleep timer, alarm settings
11:14:26pondlifeAlarm settings are already in System here (on H300 + wake-up patch)
11:14:29JdGordonalso, it gives a nice exaple of using viewports
11:14:33gevaertsRemaining battery runtime?
11:14:35*gevaerts hides
11:17:38JdGordonna, that can stay in the info screen
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11:18:16gevaertsIt _is_ time information!
11:18:26JdGordonits fake time info though!
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11:19:00JdGordonI would argue to put idle poweroff in that screen also
11:19:08JdGordonactually no
11:19:37*pondlife still thinks the current setup is fine - maybe move sleep timer into System...
11:19:52JdGordonits not as nice as it could be though :p
11:20:08pondlifeNicer than another top-level menu item, IMHO
11:20:22pondlifeOf course, it needs to work properly ;)
11:20:31pondlifeBut I've not had time to fix it up yet.
11:21:10*JdGordon just moved it out of the top level
11:21:42pondlifeI'd generally prefer more details in the info screen and less menu options.
11:21:58pondlifeJust an opinion-y thing though, no real reason.
11:22:09JdGordonfine, but what has the time and date got to do with "rockbox info"?
11:23:02pondlifeWhat has hard disk size?
11:23:12pondlifeIt's a general system info screen
11:23:25JdGordon3 sec too slow :p
11:23:40pondlifeSo rename it System Info :)
11:24:46pondlifeWe already have version as a separate option too, although I prefer not to spin up my disk to check that...
11:25:22JdGordonthats another thing i want to change... the version option should show the number there also
11:25:42pondlifeIt does, doesn't it?
11:25:59pondlifeYep, it's on there
11:26:08JdGordonin the info screen, im talking about in the menu
11:26:55pondlifeI see the version number under both Info and Version. The menus themselves should avoid dynamic content IMHO.
11:28:21JdGordonagreed to an extent :p
11:28:33*JdGordon does NOT want bookarms permanantly on the main menu
11:29:15JdGordonbookarms? wtf? :p
11:29:23*gevaerts thinks that JdGordon either has thick books or thin arms
11:29:39*pondlife wants bookmarks to be integrated into playlists completely...
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12:11:34DerPapstgevaerts: looks good :)
12:13:24mcuelenaerethat WPS editor seems to have problems with refreshing it's screen
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12:28:06gevaertsDerPapst: great :) I hope you don't mind me having renamed 1drockblox to rockblox1d. I didn't really want that one as the first game people see
12:29:44DerPapstheh. :) it's ok
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12:31:49*gevaerts committed those immediately after devcon had decided that we should feel free to commit all plugins that work properly on at least one target, even if their usefulness is limited
12:32:16DerPapstyay :D
12:33:14DerPapstnow i'm a little more motivated to finish battleship :P
12:33:30gevaertsOnly the day after we decided that all features and plugins also need a manual bit, and you didn't appear
12:34:00*gevaerts was trapped then
12:34:54DerPapstheh :P
12:35:10DerPapstbut you did a good job though ;)
12:35:35gevaertsThanks :) But for battleships, you do it ;)
12:35:43DerPapstoh well :/
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12:37:35DerPapstthe only left task for the iPod video version is to create a default highscore list. and then i have to adapt it to smaller screens...
12:40:29DerPapstthe ai is pretty good. i loose about 50-60% of the games. and i already have an idea for a small optimisation to make it even more clever :P
12:41:08mcuelenaereis it ok to post patches in the tracker for WPSeditor?
12:41:38pondlifeDoes anyone else think that the WPS code which displays (root) while still buffering should just leave the field blank?
12:41:54pondlifeSeems to be hard-coded in gwps-common.c
12:42:58pondlifeI don't honestly undersstand what the code is doing though
12:43:11DerPapstmcuelenaere: i'd say go ahead and point the student to it
12:44:12pondlifeAh, it's also in the WPS file itself... :/
12:44:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:46:01gevaertsDerPapst: does ik have touchscreen support?
12:47:40mcuelenaereDerPapst: there's a couple of functions in the plugins library for touchscreen implementation
12:48:06DerPapstonly the ipod video is currently supported. but touchscreen support shouldn't be too difficult. battleship doesn't need many buttons.
12:50:06DerPapstonly 6 buttons are needed or 5 and one combination :)
12:52:55*DerPapst found only one touchscreen related function in plugin.h
12:55:44Nico_Pmcuelenaere: maybe you can get the student to add you to the google project so that you can get write access to his svn repo
12:55:46DerPapstbut i think the 3 x 3 grid is good enough for battleship. otherwise you'd need a stylus to play it :)
12:56:08mcuelenaereNico_P: it's just a little patch, it's not that I'm going to really get involved :)
12:56:20mcuelenaerebut it would be nice if I could get his email address
12:56:30DerPapstis 320x240 still the largest resolution of a rockbox target?
12:56:38mcuelenaerecurrently, yes
12:56:59DerPapsteven for the work-in-progress touchscreen ones?
12:57:15mcuelenaerenope, the vx747 is 400x240
12:57:21mcuelenaerebut never mind those extra 80 pixels
12:57:34mcuelenaereI'm planning to use those as buttons in some screens
12:57:42Nico_Pmcuelenaere: I'll PM his email address to you
12:57:46mcuelenaereok thanks
12:58:08DerPapstthen i should hurry before that changes ;)
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13:00:48mcuelenaereDerPapst: about the ts_raster_button_mapping, not every function of it already works; it needs a little bit more work
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13:07:00DerPapstmcuelenaere: ok. thanks for the warning.
13:07:33DerPapsti probably start working on it again in about 2 weeks or so.
13:07:48DerPapsta lot of work needs to be done before :-/
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13:20:25ThibGHm... I don't see where lcd_write_yuv420_lines is defined
13:20:46B4gderDerPapst: mrobe500 is the king of upcoming resolutions afaik
13:21:35B4gderalthough I'm not sure how "upcoming" it is...
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13:24:00B4gderThibG: find . -name "*.[ch]" | xargs grep lcd_write_yuv420_lines
13:24:34mcuelenaereor google code search if you don't know/have linux
13:26:05ThibGI've done a basic grep search (grep -R lcd_write_yuv420_lines .)
13:27:17DerPapstB4gder: what is its resolution?
13:27:25ThibGI don't see the function itself
13:27:38B4gderDerPapst: 640x480
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13:28:40DerPapsthmm.. 32x32 battlefield... :D that means a lot of ships to find and sink ^^
13:29:04B4gderThibG: there many different versions
13:29:06ThibGoh that's not written in C
13:29:08B4gderthere are
13:29:40ThibGit's in lcd-as-memframe.S
13:29:49B4gderah right
13:30:13ThibGi'm not too much into asm :s
13:36:02webmindhmm, I supose this question has been asked before, but is not in faq. the ipod classic has encrypted firmware I understand, but does anyone know of any effort undertaken to circumvent this ?
13:38:45B4gderwell, see regarding their efforts
13:38:56B4gderthe encryption used may be similar/same
13:40:48webmindtof managed to extract the content of the SST39WF800A and disassembling started.
13:40:53webmindbut that was 3 months ago.
13:40:56DerPapstthough the flashrom chip they dumped is encrypted too. so the 50kb rom of the cpu needs to be dumped.
13:41:08B4gderyes, that was just basically an encrypted chunk
13:41:20B4gderdidn't really make anyone happy
13:42:01DerPapstand i don't know if tof / stooo had any success with the cpu yet.
13:42:06*webmind really doesn't understand apple
13:42:24webmindor I don't want to.
13:42:36*pondlife doesn't understand why someone would buy apple if they wanted Rockbox
13:42:43DerPapstthey want to make sure you use their products (iTunes and stuff)
13:42:51Nico_Pthey want you using iTunes...
13:42:59*DerPapst thinks the iPods are some pretty decent targets
13:43:00webmindpondlife, well, I liked the design of the nano (I've got a 1st gen with rockbox)
13:43:12pondlifeI meant new apple
13:43:15webmindNico_P, ah ofcourse yes.
13:43:21webmindpondlife, none yet :)
13:43:45pondlifeWhen the time comes, put your money towards a more deserving company, maybe.
13:43:59*webmind now has an mp3 player, well 2, I still got the remains of my archos player.
13:44:14webmindpondlife, sure.. if they also design good hardware
13:56:43ThibGerf... My D2 won't shut down after a "File not found" error :s
13:57:59gevaertsHold power for a while
13:58:50ThibGdidn't work. But the reset button (the one between USB and extention port) worked
13:59:09gevaertsIt usually works for me
14:05:02ThibGnice... I've rotated the display by 180° :/
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14:32:49nardulHey. My rockbox shows folders with 'æøå' incorrectly, the codepage is utf-8, and the filenames are utf-8, i checked. Now i tried several different fonts. Does anyone know how to make it work?
14:35:32PaulJamin what way are they shown incorrectly? if the letters appear as empty boxes, then the font doesn't have the neccessary glyphs.
14:37:19nardulPaulJam, It shows up as pure garbage, not empty char's
14:37:21markunnardul: do you use windows?
14:38:00nardulmarkun, No. Linux
14:38:18markunnardul: then it's often that the drive isn't mounted as UTF-8
14:39:11nardulmarkun, hmm. That would make sense.
14:39:25markunwhich means the files are not converted from utf-8 to ucs-2, but from latin1 for example
14:39:55nardulThat' doesn't make sense to me.
14:40:08nardulNot that it doesn't happen, but what you said :)
14:40:48markunvfat stores the files as UCS-2 (more or less UTF16)
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14:41:47markunI think the mount option is iocharset=utf-8
14:41:56nardulDo you know if i can see in /var/log/messages what it's mounted at?
14:42:01nardulHAL does it for me.
14:42:05markunI don't know
14:42:15nardulI'll mount it manually and see.
14:42:19markunI don't use linux myself
14:43:14GodEatermarkun: think it depends on where you want that option to go
14:43:19GodEateriocharset is right for fstab
14:43:31GodEaterbut I think if you have HAL doing the mounting, it's utf8=true
14:43:35GodEateror somesuch
14:43:49nardulGodEater, I couldn't find anything i messages indicationg charset.
14:43:50markunGodEater: ok, I'll try to remember it
14:44:12GodEaternardul: I don't think you'll see any either - it's something you have to specify
14:44:29GodEaterUUID=743A-FC1A /mnt/ipod vfat defaults,user,noauto,iocharset=cp850,utf8
14:44:33GodEaterthat's my ipod fstab entry
14:44:46GodEaterwhich definitely works
14:44:54nardulGodEater, If you plug in your ipod it automatically gets mounted there?
14:44:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:45:09GodEaterno - I mount it manually - hence why it's in fstab
14:45:20GodEaterI wouldn't have an entry for it there if it was automounted
14:45:22nardulExactly. I primarily just plug it in.
14:45:35nardulWould be nice if i could make that work.
14:45:35GodEaterthen you need to check your mount options with gconf-editor
14:45:55*GodEater blythely assumes nardul is running Ubuntu
14:46:02nardulGodEater, gentoo
14:46:21GodEatera gentoo person without the smarts to do this on their own? What is the world coming to ?
14:46:28nardulaww, come on :P
14:46:32nardulWe can't all know everything.
14:46:47GodEaterare you running gnome ?
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14:46:54nardulSo gnconf
14:46:59GodEaterok - so run gconf-editor as I said
14:47:04nardulOn it.
14:47:08nardulAlreadyfound it
14:47:14*GodEater waits three hours for nardul to emerge it
14:47:30GodEatergo to system/storage/default_options/vfat
14:47:32*nardul shakes his hand furiously at GodEater
14:47:38nardulGodEater, Alreay there.
14:47:52GodEaterdo you have a mount_options value ?
14:48:07nardulyup. Suppose i should add the correct value :P
14:48:17GodEaterwell what does it say currently ?
14:48:45GodEaterPS - I only get to pick on your for running gentoo because I ran it for three years before I got fed up with portage :)
14:48:48nardul"shortname=lower" "uid="
14:49:04nardulGodEater, I like portage. It's superior in most ways. Except you have to compile everything.
14:49:46GodEatermy mount_options are : shortname=mixed,uid=,utf8,umask=077,exec,flush
14:49:59GodEaterso I guess just add the utf8 if that's all your interested in
14:50:28mcuelenaereB4gder: how hard would it be to get RBUtil (and perhaps WPSeditor in the future) building in the build server chain?
14:50:50GodEaterafter three years of portage, I can't help but wonder what you think portage is superior to. revdep-rebuild is an obvious gaping flaw...
14:50:56linuxstbHas some source code for the WPSeditor been published?
14:51:06GodEaterlinuxstb: not that I've seen
14:51:15*GodEater takes it back
14:51:37linuxstbSomeone should give him rights to SVN...
14:52:05nardulGodEater, Actually, it was redesigned not so long ago. But yes, it has it's problems. It continues to have problems with gcj, and wants to rebuild GCC whenever i run it. But you just have to create a symlink and it works fine.
14:52:23markunlinuxstb: I believe that for tax reasons the code must now also be supplied to google
14:52:34GodEaternardul: I prefer to avoid such workarounds now - I find apt more comfortable these days
14:52:42linuxstbmarkun: But isn't that just uploading a patch at the end of the summer?
14:52:47nardulYou're on ubuntu?
14:53:06*GodEater will attempt to avoid further distro discussion now though as it's off topic
14:53:14markunlinuxstb: yes, probably
14:53:15nardulGodEater, I like just being able to find everything in portage, and continuous upgrades.
14:53:21GodEaterdo come to #rockbox-community if you wish to be mocked further ;)
14:53:23nardulokay, sorry then :)
14:54:06GodEaterwe encourage off topic in -community, so you're welcome there
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14:56:58B4gdermcuelenaere: not that terribly hard, but I don't see a need to use the build servers for that purpose since it's more of a single build and not one for each possible target
14:57:31mcuelenaereB4gder: yes perhaps not all build servers would be needed, just one could satisfy
14:57:33linuxstbB4gder: It's multi-platform though
14:58:03B4gdertrue, but the build servers don't help much with that
14:58:09markunnardul: anyway, did this solve your problem? You obviously need to retransmit or rename your files.
14:58:19linuxstbB4gder: Don't we have an OS X build server now?
14:58:33B4gderah yes we do
14:58:35mcuelenaereB4gder: I presume all build servers are Linux?
14:58:40linuxstbAnd 64-bit...
14:59:36linuxstbAnd maybe building binary packages for different distros will be easier on that specific distro...
15:00:43JdGordonB4gder: if oyu have a sec.. can you check which port you have setup for
15:01:33*JdGordon needs to fix port forwarding on that box again
15:02:06JdGordonactually.. can you change it to 22?
15:02:06mcuelenaereJdGordon: the WPS editor student had some questions regarding drawmodes, do you know something about that?
15:02:42JdGordonlinuxstb is probaly a better person to ask... but depends on the problem
15:02:52linuxstbmcuelenaere: How did you find the wps editor? Did the student come to IRC?
15:03:07*linuxstb doesn't understand the drawmodes, and forwards the request to amiconn
15:03:20mcuelenaerelinuxstb: I mailed him and he asked me something about it a half an hour ago and redirected him to IRC, but I guess he didn't came..
15:03:30mcuelenaereI redirected him*
15:03:49*linuxstb is underwhelmed by the student IRC activity
15:04:30mcuelenaerelinuxstb: perhaps you could mail him? maybe he's still online
15:05:01*GodEater agrees heartily with linuxstb
15:05:16*linuxstb kicks the SoC mentors to kick their students
15:05:45*gevaerts kicks linuxstb to kick SoC mentors harder to kick their students
15:13:05*GodEater thought linuxstb *was* a mentor with a student, so assumes linuxstb is kicking himself
15:13:19linuxstbGodEater: Not afaik...
15:13:42GodEaterlinuxstb: your name is next to saratoga's project on the Gsoc2008 wiki page...
15:15:32linuxstbGodEater: Yes, I was interested in that project, but didn't volunteer as a mentor for it in the end.
15:16:00*GodEater struggles to remember who did end up mentoring it then. JdGordon ?
15:16:09linuxstbGodEater: Yes, see the table at the top of that page
15:16:52*JdGordon got saratoga
15:17:15JdGordoni spoke to him this morning
15:17:29JdGordonhe's on track, but yeah needs to update more often
15:17:36*GodEater again refers people to
15:17:48linuxstbGodEater: That couldn't be more appropriate...
15:17:48GodEaterbig blob updates are bad
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15:17:52*JdGordon thought that was a good article
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15:18:06linuxstbJdGordon: Have you pointed saratoga to it? ;)
15:18:41JdGordonno, i only saw it a few hours ago when GodEater mentioned it the first time
15:18:44Nico_Pgodeater: at least they shouw their source
15:19:04GodEatereventually yes, but source without discussion is equally bad
15:19:06Nico_Pbut what happened to the ARM emulator project?
15:19:15GodEaterwe think it's dead
15:19:27GodEaterLinusN has lost contact
15:19:42preglowwhen's midterm?
15:19:48GodEaternowish I think
15:19:54Nico_Pit's started
15:21:29*linuxstb spots a 210KB patch from saratoga on the wiki
15:22:17GodEaterand that's not even finished I suppse
15:22:24linuxstbAs "your" article says, who wants to review that?
15:23:30*Nico_P tried to take a look at the patch, but drowned in trivial #define changes
15:25:07JdGordonanyone (apart from pondlife :D ) care to comment on 9173?
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15:41:17preglowNico_P: looks nice enough, i guess. any reason for displaying the time info at the top?
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15:41:59Nico_Ppreglow: I guess this was intented for JdGordon?
15:42:09preglowNico_P: indeed it was :P
15:42:10Nico_Por intended, even
15:42:17preglowJdGordon: read the above, please
15:42:33PaulJamJdGordon: i haven't yet tried the patch with a clean source yet, but could you check if the play button in that screen works correctly (i.e.returns to the WPS instead of entering one of the settings)?
15:46:01*PaulJam compiles an uisim with that patch
15:56:12PaulJamJdGordon: i left a comment in the FS task.
15:59:11*preglow isn't sure he thinks that menu belongs in "system"
16:03:39 Part B4gder
16:11:45ThibGHow can I make a target-specific implementation of a function? (with .S files)
16:12:26mcuelenaerejust make sure the file is #if'ed in the SOURCES file
16:14:07pondlifeJdGordon: #9173 is for 3.0 ??
16:14:44pondlifeI still haven't seen a decent reason for changing it.
16:15:47JdGordonpreglow: thats the point of the screen.. get the time out of the info screen
16:15:55pondlifeBut why???
16:16:04pondlifeI like the time in the info screen
16:16:05JdGordonbecause it sucks there!
16:16:19pondlifeIn your opinion, and maybe only yours?
16:16:36pondlifeI see this as change for change's sake at best.
16:16:47preglowi tend to agree
16:16:51preglowbut i'll have to try it
16:17:01*JdGordon thinking bike shed is why there is an argument
16:17:13JdGordonthe current scheme is not nice from the users POV
16:17:26pondlifeWhy not? I mean, if it was fixed up
16:17:36pondlifeIt should work fine in the info screen.
16:18:08pondlifeAll of the info screen should be refreshed in realtime anyway (battery level for example)
16:18:35pondlifeI don't see why it's not nice to include the time/date there.
16:18:42JdGordonit cant be refreshed in real time and scroll...
16:18:51pondlifeWhy not?
16:18:57pondlifeThat's an implementation detail.
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16:19:12JdGordonyes it is
16:19:25JdGordonwhich is why im offering this alternative implementation
16:19:31JdGordonwhich imo looks nicer anyway
16:19:56pondlifeIt adds another screen format, we should be minimising those.
16:20:17preglowi don't see the point in adding another clock display, no
16:20:20pondlifewps, wrs, radio, list - should cover everything, I think
16:20:25preglowyou already have one in the status bar, and in the time/date screen
16:20:54pondlifeIIRC, the info screen had it included for voice support primarily.
16:21:04JdGordonpondlife: if you didnt get the bike shed reference (and i dont mean to be rude incase it comes out like that)
16:21:59preglowis the background colour of that page intentional? :>
16:22:05pondlifeJdGordon: I think another screen goes against my sense of KISS. Unless this will also give a nice green delta ;)
16:22:29JdGordonpreglow: refresh it..
16:22:49JdGordonpondlife: thats the other reason for it... to show off how sreens can look with viewports
16:23:08pondlifeJdGordon: That's a terrible reason to do it IMHO
16:23:17*JdGordon hopes he linked the right page before
16:23:28*DerPapst likes viewports and uses them for battleship too
16:23:28pondlifeSo, let's add non-standard screens for each feature, because we can.
16:23:29JdGordonwhy is that a terrible reason?
16:23:42pondlifeIt's unrelated
16:23:59*JdGordon intends to either wps-ify the rec/fm screens, or change them to something like that
16:24:00pondlifeI want to move study mode into a special screen, say.... ;)
16:24:15pondlifeI'd rather see the status bar be a viewport
16:24:21pondlifeala linuxstb's proof of concept
16:24:30JdGordon*thats* unrelated
16:24:46pondlifeYes, but it would show viewports being useful
16:24:53JdGordonno it wouldnt
16:25:00pondlifei.e. same status bar across the whole UI
16:25:25pondlife(and a customisable one, at that)
16:25:34JdGordonits irrelevant thoguh
16:26:10JdGordonand sure its a change for the sake of a change.. but unless someone comes up with a good negative reason against it.. i dont see the big deal in chanigng
16:26:31pondlifeRed delta, non-standard screen - there's 2 reasons.
16:26:41pondlifeExtra menu option - there's a 3rd
16:26:49pondlifeAll for no gain
16:27:17JdGordoni've moved the screen so its actually 1 less menu item overall now
16:27:18pondlifeI'll shut up and let others speak up for it now though...
16:27:30preglowonly thing i feel strongly about is a don't see the need for another time/date display. doesn't the time/date setting itself do that nicely enough?
16:27:31JdGordonred delta is not a good reason
16:27:54preglowif it doesn't, i rather think that should change so it is
16:27:58pondlifeIt is, especially on an Archos
16:28:26JdGordonyou shouldnt need to go into the time setting (which is 3 levels in) to find out the time
16:28:40JdGordonthats why it was added to the rockbox info screen, where, imo it doesnt belong
16:28:46preglowstatus bar, then , if you wnat to see the time easily
16:29:04pondlifeIt was added to the info screen for voice support
16:29:11pondlife(I'm fairly sure.)
16:29:21preglowwhich time/date setting should also provide
16:29:27preglowso i don't even see why it should be added to the info screen
16:29:29JdGordon3 levels in...
16:30:48pondlifeI like it in the info screen, personally. But I mainly use that for the date as the status bar has the time.
16:30:53preglowperhaps we could move it to the root settings menu? it's basic enough an option to merit it, i think
16:31:46pondlifeInfo is the same depth as a root setting would be.
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16:32:19pondlifeI'll shut up now and let others opine.
16:32:32JdGordonwhere it is now is menu, down, enter, enter
16:32:33*GodEater just pines
16:33:08preglowbut do you pine for fjords?
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16:33:26pondlifeHmm, is Rockbox blue a Swedish colour?
16:34:06preglowi can see a rockbox mascot coming up here :P
16:34:52pondlifeLike Tux, but deader
16:35:04pondlifeAnd with beautiful plumage
16:35:25preglowa dead blue and yellow parrot hanging from it's perched, which it's nailed to
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16:39:51GodEaterand which people then come and complain about? Saying it's not alive ?
16:40:30preglowhaven't you read the users ml lately? :P
16:41:43*scorche|sh nudges the cage
16:41:47scorche|shsee? moved!
16:42:04*GodEater isn't going any further down this road
16:42:58*pondlife refuses to make the unrelated "pieces of seven" joke.
16:43:40pondlifeInstead, I'll add a bit of low-hanging buggage -
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16:44:55*scorche|sh wonders if GodEater likes traffic lights
16:45:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:48:16*GodEater is thoroughly confused now
16:50:33JdGordonpondlife: (again, not being rude) did you actually read the text in my posts there? or just look at the pic and diff?
16:50:35scorche|shit was a popular song at devcon and i will see if i cant get you a link in community
16:50:47pondlifeI tested the patch
16:51:05pondlifeAh, I see
16:51:16pondlifeThe time AND date though
16:51:23JdGordonit does
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16:51:45JdGordonand would when entering the screen if i found a nice qway to do it
16:52:07pondlifeI can't make it speak the time or date, but I probably need a new voice file?
16:52:22JdGordonuse the usual context menu action
16:52:59pondlifeThat wasn't very obvious - I'd only have got that if I'd read the manual ;)
16:53:12JdGordonor the text in the post
16:53:19pondlifeWhy not allow the bar to scroll onto the date or time?
16:53:44JdGordonbecause they arnt editable
16:53:52JdGordonthe screen is logically split into 2 parts
16:54:16pondlifeBut that makes for obvious voice support, IMHO.. i.e. move the bar onto date and it reads the date...
16:54:42JdGordonwell... that was another option, but i dont really like it
16:54:54JdGordonand it would have to be done by adding a "talk the time" option to the list part
16:55:23pondlifeContext menus normally operated on the selected entity, so a context press on "Sleep Timer" to read the time isn't consistent
16:55:28preglowi don't think it should be selectable if it isn't editable
16:55:28pondlifefor example
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17:01:39JdGordon... anywho... im going to bed
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17:14:27pixelmapondlife: please leave a comment... there is a slight difference because I see it in other plugins, guess it has something to do that I use a black on white colour scheme
17:15:02pondlifeI didn't try any other plugins, but the png was exactly what I saw in clock
17:15:14pondlifeDo you not see this in clock?
17:15:32LambdaCalculus37Can someone take another look at FS #9122 and comment?
17:16:16pixelmahaha, mibbit makes a channel 9122 out of it...
17:16:43LambdaCalculus37pixelma: :)
17:17:05LambdaCalculus37Mibbit thinks anything with a # before it is a channel! :P
17:17:09*LambdaCalculus37 is amused
17:17:18pixelmapondlife: nope, clock looks alright with my colours
17:17:32pondlifeI was using all defaults
17:17:40pondlife(and no clock settings saved)
17:18:12pixelmaah no, it's black on light blue not white as it should be
17:18:33pondlifeI'm fairly sure it's the same bug
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17:18:51pixelmayeah, just wanted to add a comment on yours
17:18:59pixelma(bug report I mean)
17:19:01loliodoes anyone have p2?
17:19:51LambdaCalculus37The P2 is not compatible with Rockbox.
17:20:13lolioi know that
17:20:14lolioi have a p2
17:20:28LambdaCalculus37Are you looking to port Rockbox to it?
17:20:39lolioi dont have skills to do it
17:20:51scorche|shso, what exactly are you looking for here?
17:21:05lolioim just wondering if anyone here's willing to do it-_-
17:21:13lolioi know its kinda selfish and stuff
17:21:15scorche|shports dont really work liek that
17:21:16loliobut i just wanna know
17:21:25LambdaCalculus37Only interested owners do the work.
17:21:44lolioi knoww
17:21:52lolioim just
17:22:05loliosince D2 is already working
17:22:05pixelmapondlife: I talked to JdGordon once (either logs of May 18th or 19th) and he gave me an advice which turned out to not be helpful when I looked at the 4 plugins last weekend - he talked about a parameter in the rb->do_menu call being wrong but 3 of them had this set as he suggested and sudoku even used the old menu api (if I understood correctly), hope you understand I'm not sure I used the right words in the programmer's language...
17:22:08scorche|shpeople come along with the time, motivation, device itself, and the capability to do it....that is how ports happen
17:22:19LambdaCalculus37lolio: So if you're so curious, why not get started on a porting effort?
17:22:20lolioand someone said p2 is similar to d2
17:22:30lolioso it's gonna be easy
17:22:34lolioor not that hard
17:22:42lolioi dont even know what im supposed to do
17:22:57LambdaCalculus37Find out what kind of hardware is in the device?
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17:23:07lolioeverything's there to port
17:23:16loliobut there just isnt anyone to do it
17:23:31LambdaCalculus37There's you!
17:23:35scorche|shthen i would suggest you try to learn how and do it yourself ;)
17:24:16loliois it like
17:24:23loliocomputer programming stuff?
17:24:30lolioor is there like tutorial on the site
17:24:35pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: about #9122... if you read the forum thread again, linuxstb said that it would break Ipods with type 1 lcds...
17:24:37scorche|shit isnt that simple
17:24:52scorche|shlolio: try the NewPorts wiki page
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17:25:41LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Damn... no good. :/
17:25:54LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: You don't have access to an iPod color, do you?
17:26:06loliothat's p2
17:26:23linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: Yes, I do. A "type 1" LCD.
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17:27:03PaulJamLambdaCalculus37: what speaks against just reverting the commit that broke it until a proper fix is found?
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17:27:48loliothanks guys
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17:28:28LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: So my patch corrupted the LCD display output on yours?
17:29:01linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: I haven't tested it, but it's obvious it will. Those changes were just to confirm what the problem was, not a suggested solution.
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17:29:43LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Not to mention the fact that I haven't been able to find out how to get Mpegplayer to display correctly.
17:30:03*LambdaCalculus37 thinks that a more proper solution should be thought of
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17:30:39linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: The solution has been suggested by both amiconn and me - find the correct LCD init sequence for the type 0 LCDs running the older versions of the Apple firmware.
17:30:59*pixelma needs to leave now again, back later
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17:31:34linuxstbThis means either experimenting with the code amiconn committed, to see if you can guess the right values, or (more realistically) disassembling the OF bootloader to find the LCD init code.
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17:33:54pondlifeWhich target has a small display and a RTC?
17:34:08preglowsmaller than nano?
17:34:10LambdaCalculus37pondlife: The c200 or the H10 5/6GB.
17:34:14preglowc200, yeah
17:34:21linuxstbPlus the remotes?
17:34:33LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: I think disassembly of the OF is the better choice.
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17:34:51preglowshouldn't be too hard if you know the hardware addresses
17:35:02linuxstbWhich we do...
17:35:25preglowthen it should be easy enough, given a good disassembler
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17:37:36LambdaCalculus37preglow: arm-elf-objdump good enough, or do you know a better one?
17:38:05preglownone free
17:38:09linuxstbDo the ipod bootloaders have thumb code?
17:38:10preglowbut it should suffice if you're lucky
17:38:16preglowlinuxstb: i don't think so
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17:39:44amiconnpondlife: Archos recorders...
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18:04:53pondlifeAnyone know what code is responsible for horizontal scrolling of list items?
18:05:29pondlifeMore specifically, could we prevent why does a list redraw resetting the scroll offset.
18:05:42pondlifes/why does//
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18:45:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:45:58pondlifeCould people with small-screened targets/LCD remotes give a spin?
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18:47:55midgeyI've posted a new version of my GSoC at FS #9067
18:48:23midgeyI'm off to an appointment, but I'd like to discuss it when I get back
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19:04:19linuxstbpondlife: Don't you have a H300 (with remote)?
19:04:24pondlifeNon-LCD remote
19:04:48linuxstbA _very_ small screen ;)
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19:06:30*preglow tries his d2s tv out
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19:44:29amiconnpondlife: lcd_puts_scroll() resets the scroll offset because the content may be completely different
19:45:13amiconnAnd yes, this can be improved, either by a flag supplied by the caller which decides when to reset, or some more or less clever guessing
19:45:56 Quit Vorador ("Ex-Chat")
19:46:00pondlifeA flag is what I was looking for, I guess.
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19:46:13pondlifeIt's for a somewhat specific purpose
19:47:27amiconnpondlife: It's less specific than you might think. The wps also shows occasional unwanted scroll resets
19:47:36pondlifeAh, ok
19:47:56pondlifeMaybe a check to see if the text was changed could be perfomed?
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19:48:32amiconnChecking whether it changed at all might be relatively easy
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19:48:50amiconnBut then the position will still reset if only a single character changed
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19:48:57loliois rockbox for linux
19:49:07amiconnBetter than nothing, imho
19:49:13pondlifeI agree
19:49:23pondlifeIt would work for my case, certainly
19:49:30pondlifei.e. the info screen time refresh
19:50:37loliothis is frustrating'
19:51:03pondlifelolio: Rockbox is not for Linux
19:51:12pondlifeRockbox is an OS of it's own
19:51:16lolioi mean
19:51:20pondlifeNot related to Linux
19:51:25lolioat all?
19:51:42pondlifeWell, there's a Rockbox simulator you can run on Linux...
19:51:51pondlifeThat's about it, I think.
19:51:58wpyha lot (if not most) Rockbox developers use Linux
19:52:02scorche|shlolio: what are you getting at?...rockbox is not and is not based on linux
19:52:04LloreanAnd we learned some iPod stuff from iPodLinux
19:52:18wpyhyeah, and Rockbox got some drivers from iPodLinux
19:52:26wpyhiPodLinux is a derivative of Linux
19:52:38pondlifeAnd we were talking about having a bird mascot earlier ;)
19:52:45scorche|shbut it isnt and is not related to linux...which i think is what he was getting at
19:52:54LloreanBut Rockbox itself is built from the ground up on its own codebase.
19:52:58lolioi dont get how rockbox works
19:53:08loliois it just a program in an OS
19:53:16lolioor just firmware
19:53:21Battousairockbox IS an os
19:53:42lolioi was looking through forums
19:53:51scorche|shplease stop saying things like "ic"...we ask for real english here
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19:54:15lolioand one of the developers or someone talked about how to disassemble a firmware
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19:54:21lolio(sorry about that)
19:54:24Slasherilolio: it's a firmware and firmware generally is an os too
19:54:37bluebrothercan someone enlighten me about FS #9175? Where's that wps editor?
19:54:38lolioi looked for the programs that he talked about
19:54:40lolioand i couldnt find it
19:54:50pondlifeamiconn: Looking at the lcd_puts_scroll() for 16 bit, is it the lcd_scroll_stop_line() that resets the position, or does that just stop the scrolling processing?
19:54:56bluebrotherhaven't seen such a thing around, especially no code for it ...
19:55:03scorche|shlolio: think of "firmware' as the OS of an embedded device...but all of this could be better answered by you using google and wikipedia
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19:57:14scorche|shwhy is he using google code as his repository...
19:57:22bluebrotherahhh, seems there was an update on that topic :)
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19:58:05domonokyi had some talk with him because now we are in midterm evaluation period :-)
19:58:06bluebrotherdid I say there wasn't enough feedback by SoC students here?
19:58:33bluebrotherhmm, seems there is no code browser around.
19:59:08bluebrotheris that a code::blocks project file?
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19:59:51bluebrotherurgh. Makefile defines CC to mingw32-gcc.exe
19:59:53domonokyyes, but you can also compile on the console... *i think linux doesnt work at moment*
20:00:07domonokythe code is in a need of cleanup...
20:00:09*GodEater_ definitely thinks the mentors should be slapping their students as hard as they can to get them in here
20:00:33scorche|shdomonoky: and why is he using google code as his repository?...we would have been happy to make him a branch
20:01:31domonokyhe had problems accessing our svn.. so he choose google code for the beginning...
20:01:47bluebrotherwhy isn't he using qmake for the proxy part? Shouldn't be too hard to make it work
20:01:56domonokyi want him to cleanup the code, and then put it into our svn in the not so far future..
20:02:06*bluebrother wonders what could be problematic accessing rb svn
20:02:08scorche|shdomonoky: problems accessing our svn.../
20:02:15scorche|shbluebrother: indeed
20:02:28loliowouldn't it be possible to put os in mp3 players like the ones that are in pdas and stuff
20:02:36lolioif the hardware supports it
20:02:57scorche|shit sounds like some sort of excuse to me, but then again i may be reading too much into this
20:03:03scorche|shlolio: what does this have to do with rockbox?
20:03:14LambdaCalculus37scorche|sh: Rockbox as an app, perhaps?
20:03:18domonokybluebrother: maybe some needed ports are blocked by his isp ? but it dont know for sure..
20:03:25GodEater_domonoky: I'd rather he put the code into an svn branch now - cleaned up or not
20:03:43LambdaCalculus37lolio: There has been talk about Rockbox as an App; is that what you're talking about?
20:03:50pondlifeamiconn: In struct scrollinfo, is "offset" the offset to the first char to be displayed?
20:04:11loliojust ignore me
20:04:12scorche|shLambdaCalculus37: that isnt what he is saying...he is likely asking why he cant put a pda os on a dap
20:04:19lolioi dont know what im talking about
20:04:27scorche|shlolio: i would rather we not have to ignore you and you stay on topic
20:04:29loliothat's kinda what im saying
20:04:47loliowhat scorchesh is saying
20:04:58bluebrotherwow, that code's quite messy :/
20:04:58scorche|sheither way, that is offtopic here
20:05:01LambdaCalculus37lolio: Please try to speak more clearly next time. You can confuse a lot of people like that.
20:05:15lolioare u one of the developers?
20:05:31bluebrotherdomonoky: you should suggest him running indent on it −− with the rockbox style.
20:05:44bertrikoh, is there a rockbox indent style?
20:06:03scorche|shlolio: you can find out the "status" of many people by issuing "/who name"...we have something called cloaks
20:06:37LambdaCalculus37And my cloak is in the wash right now. ;)
20:06:55pondlife'/who' doesn't work here..
20:07:09bluebrotherbertrik: well, I meant "use options to make it indent like the rb coding guidelines" :)
20:07:12scorche|shsorry... "/whois"
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20:07:37domonokybluebrother, GodEater, i will talk with my student about this, so we can get it into rockbox svn as fast as possible..
20:07:51scorche|shdomonoky: definitely
20:08:49bluebrotherdomonoky: it also doesn't seem to build against current svn −− should be addressed first imo
20:09:25domonokybroken again ? it worked yesterday... current svn moves to fast :-)
20:09:47bluebrothermaybe I should try harder ;-)
20:09:50 Quit lolio ("CGI:IRC")
20:09:54bluebrotherbut I found ... Tabs!
20:09:57*bluebrother screams
20:10:22domonokyits a bit difficult to build it... there different steps needed :-)
20:10:30bluebrotheris there a readme?
20:11:14bluebrotherand those files are dos style :/
20:11:23domonokyi dont think so... he should instead improve the build process...
20:11:40bluebrotheryeah ... I'd like to see qmake used
20:11:45domonoky1. build the "proxy" dll with "make shared"
20:11:55*bluebrother screams
20:12:11domonoky2. build the property editor with "qmake && make"
20:12:24domonoky3. build the gui with "qmake && make"
20:12:35domonokythe dll is intended...
20:12:53domonokythe wps editor will use shared libs to support all targets...
20:13:06bluebrotherwhy that?
20:13:22bluebrotherI don't see a reason why a lib is needed to support multiple targets.
20:13:54Bagdermidgey: I'll try out the latest #9067 tonight and provide feedback
20:13:57domonokybecause it uses rockbox wps and display code, you cant compile this for different targets in one, without changing much of the code.
20:14:05bluebrotherit will most likely cause quite some headache in terms of portability ...
20:14:17domonokylike we need many differen checkwps builds..
20:14:26bluebrotherhmm, point taken
20:15:12domonokyan portability shouldnt be the problem, just deliver the shared libs with the editor, (maybe builtin the resource file)
20:15:40bluebrotherhow are the libs loaded? AFAIK the loader stuff isn't the same on all os.
20:15:55domonokyand Qt has a nice Crossplattform shared Library loader .. :-)
20:16:03bluebrotherah. nice.
20:16:08bluebrotherbut why not Qt plugins?
20:16:21gevaertsbluebrother: he did that part on his qualification task, and it worked for windows and linux (with the same code)
20:16:54bluebrothergevaerts: another reason why I want to have the students work _much_ more transparently
20:17:04*bluebrother didn't knew anything about that
20:17:39domonokyyeah more transparency would be nice, but its difficult to get the students there...
20:17:57bluebrotherbeat them to it.
20:18:06bluebrotheris it that hard to just require them to do it?
20:18:42bluebrotheras transparency is an important thing about open source ... and they should learn about that too, shouldn't they?
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20:19:22ThibGHi shotofadds
20:19:55*bluebrother is still somewhat annoyed by todays work.
20:20:58*domonoky is still struggeling to build a correct rbutil mac version...
20:20:58ThibGHere is my patch for the (extremly slow) lcd_write_yuv420_lines implementation:
20:21:03 Quit donsdl ("Bye for now.")
20:21:25LambdaCalculus37domonoky: Actually, I wanted to ask you about the Mac version of Rbutil.
20:21:50domonokyi have now made sure i have a universal Qt, rbutil links to a univeral libusb.a, but still the resulting binary is i368 only.. :-/
20:22:39LambdaCalculus37I downloaded it last night, but it appears as an icon with a "no" symbol through it, and clicking it says "You cannot open the application "rbutilqt" because it is not supported on this system."
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20:23:07domonokyLambdaCalculus37: and your mac is a ppc ?
20:23:18 Part simonrvn_ ("Thanks, and Take Care")
20:23:48domonokythe problem is, i am failing to build a univeral binary of rbutil... :-/
20:24:16LambdaCalculus37Can you build for a specific platform?
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20:25:16gevaertsdomonoky: aren't you supposed to build twice and them merge the binaries somehow?
20:25:32*gevaerts doesn't really know, but thinks he remembers having read something like that
20:25:50domonokygevaerts: no Qts build system should do this for me, but it somehow doesnt work..
20:26:47gevaertsah, ok. I didn't know that
20:26:53*LambdaCalculus37 wishes he paid more attention to Mac development ;)
20:28:28 Quit pondlife ("Leaving.")
20:29:00*gevaerts assumes that domonoky has already read
20:30:24domonokygevaerts: yes, i do it like this...
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20:31:30gevaertsI'd say try LambdaCalculus37's suggestion and try a pure ppc build
20:31:45domonokywill try..
20:31:56gevaertsIf that doesn't work, that's probably the problem, and if it does work we have an interim solution
20:32:28LambdaCalculus37I don't think anyone should get terribly confused as to whether to download a PPC or Intel build of Rbutil.
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20:33:17gevaertsMaybe not, but a fat^H^H^Huniversal binary is still better
20:33:59LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: I agree. But for now, this is, as you said, an interim solution.
20:34:35domonokyLambdaCalculus37: also which version of MacOsx have you ?
20:35:07LambdaCalculus37domonoky: 10.4.11.
20:35:17 Quit vort3x (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:35:27domonokyso that should be fine, rbutil requires min 10.4
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20:39:46domonokybuilding for mac fails.. but its a bit strange... it warns that all intermediate .o file are not of required architecture, but they are all for ppc. So there must be a gcc call somewhere which is only i368, ie misses the arch parameter...
20:40:01domonokyi mean builing for ppc mac .. :-)
20:40:37gevaerts"file" may help
20:41:06shotofaddsThibG: Thanks. Looking at all that floating-point maths, I expect you're right when you say it's "really" slow ;) Still, it's a start until someone gets up-to-speed on the ARM version...
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20:41:51ThibGshotofadds, as I've never done such PixelFormats conversion, I didn't know how to do
20:42:07ThibGI've read and re-read the ASM files, I've now a new patch, much faster
20:42:11domonokyhm, the last g++ call which creates the resulting binary has no arch parameter, now i have to investigate why ! :-)
20:42:26gevaertsSounds like progress :)
20:42:38 Quit AndyI (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:43:32*gevaerts considers adding yet another ifdef to the usb storage driver
20:44:45LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: You and your ifdef's... ;)
20:45:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:47:15ThibGI've sent the new patch on flyspray
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20:56:48*domonoky thinks he nearly got it. Now i only need a universal build of librbspeex.a :-)
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20:57:17bluebrotherdomonoky: the wps editor code is quite rather messed up with stuff like using \'s in paths and ignoring filename casing :(
20:57:50gevaertsI'd ask to clean that up first before doing anything else
20:58:07bluebrotherincluding "qobject" definitely is broken −− except for windows, which is broken in this aspect :(
20:58:24LambdaCalculus37domonoky: \o/
20:58:49bluebrotheryep. Writing code without taking care of casing is ... well.
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20:59:13bluebrotherurgh, even broken in ui files as it seems
20:59:49gevaertsIt's not that hard to fix, but it shouldn't be there in the first place
21:00:17 Quit neddy (Connection timed out)
21:01:02bluebrotherit's not hard to do it right in the first place ... but it's really a PITA if you have to fix it (and are not the one to blame)
21:01:49gevaertsIndeed, which is why it needs to be fixed _soon_, before gsoc is over
21:02:51shotofaddsThibG: that's excellent, thanks. I now have MpegPlayer running full screen, although the frame rate's pretty bad compared to SVN. We can work on that :-)
21:03:07bluebrotherone of the reasons why it doesn't build on linux. Well, the GUI part at least (haven't checked for the lib stuff yet)
21:03:28 Nick Mathiasdm2 is now known as Mathiasdm (
21:03:34ThibGshotofadds, you're welcome :)
21:03:54domonokybluebrother: i will relay all this to my student .. :-)
21:04:29ThibGI think rewriting it in ASM would improve the framerate, but I will not :P
21:04:30*bluebrother wonders why this thing wants to link against QPropertyEditord (not the trailing d)
21:04:51domonokydebug version ?
21:05:09bluebrotherdebug versions don't have a trailing d on linux
21:05:28domonokybut on windows ? :-)
21:05:32bluebrotherat least not that I'm aware of
21:05:36bluebrotheryeah, but I'm on linux
21:06:10 Quit gromit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:06:22bluebrotherit also doesn't seem to build a library for QPropertyEditor
21:06:57bluebrotherargh, more filename case issues. This aspect is horribly broken.
21:07:55gevaertsamiconn: could FS #8066 be in any way related to the problem you had with that zx spectrum flac file?
21:07:58bluebrotherit's "build", not "Build". And is to be the same in all files :(
21:08:49*domonoky has now successfully build a ppc version of rbutil. now lets try it universal :-)
21:09:19bluebrotherok, I'm lacking the dll but have guid compiled. Segfaults ...
21:09:51bluebrotherthat name should also get cleaned up. Or at least it should get considered cleaning it up. Reminds me of something completely different ...
21:10:05gevaertsAnd now for...
21:10:31bluebrother... thanks for the fish ;-)
21:10:53 Quit AndyI (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:11:54 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
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21:15:13PaulJamthe autorock functionality in combination with a modified version of rockcalendar is really nice if you can't remember birthdays :)
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21:15:49bluebrotherat least the gui part now compiles
21:18:33preglowbluebrother: curious, how do we deal with qt on mac?
21:20:19 Quit Schmogel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:20:35*domonoky has troubles building a univeral librbspeex.a, the -M option isnt allowed when building for multiple archs.. :-/
21:21:01domonokypreglow: what do you mean with "deal" the distribution ?
21:21:30domonokywe use include qt as framework in the rbutil.dmg file
21:21:42preglowlink static? if not, do we bundle "dlls"?
21:23:08domonokypreglow: we "bundle" shared libs (called .dylibs) in a "Framework" ..
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21:23:35preglowso if several program use qt, they all bundle dylibs for it?
21:23:54domonokyyes.. :-)
21:24:11preglowis that an os x convention?
21:24:18domonokyand everthing twice, ie ppc and i86..
21:24:28domonokythats the "normal" way on mac...
21:24:34preglowhow elegant....
21:25:01preglowwhat's the point in using shared libs, then?
21:25:37domonokydont ask me.. i just use jdgordons mac remotely :-)
21:27:45domonokycan someone help me with the rbspeex Makefile ? i need to somehow remove all "-E, -S, -save-temps and -M" options in the makefile to be able to build a universal lib...
21:29:11*gevaerts may need testing until after someone commits r17999. This will of course be purely a coincidence
21:29:32*gevaerts sometimes hates command line history :(
21:30:46gevaertsI've just written 1GB of data to the sd card without a single write error, and without any patch to the sd driver.
21:31:23*LambdaCalculus37 gives gevaerts a beer
21:31:58 Quit stoffel ("leaving")
21:32:13gevaertsThat was with nice repeating patterns that make it easy to spot the error. Now testing again with random data, to make sure that my changes don't accidentally write entire blocks in the wrong order
21:32:22*gevaerts grabs the beer and drinks it
21:33:50 Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
21:38:52*gevaerts is too thorough with his testing. That makes it take long
21:39:06shotofaddsThibG: I think the for() loop condition should be (i < width/2). How's that for an instant 2x speedup ;)
21:39:54shotofaddsbtw. Something is still not right though, there's screen corruption when running the 1/4 screen test in the test_fps plugin
21:40:18ThibGhm yes
21:40:41ThibGhow does test_fps work?
21:40:56shotofaddshave you added it to apps/plugins/SOURCES?
21:41:09ThibGnot yet
21:41:51shotofaddsonce compiled you can run test_fps from the Applications menu. It tests the speed of full screen and 1/4 screen updates, for both bitmaps and YUV.
21:42:11preglowshotofadds: still no idea about d2 lcd garbage?
21:42:31ThibGok, I'm going to try it
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21:43:06shotofaddspreglow: I should add that to the wiki To Do list so that "someone" else might look into it... ;)
21:43:07ThibGby the way, how does rbuiltqt work with bootloaders?
21:43:41preglowshotofadds: good, heh
21:43:46domonokyThibG: depends on the target, bootloader installation is different on every player...
21:44:06shotofaddsThibG: if you mark lcd_write_yuv420_lines as 'static' you don't need to rename it to lcd_write_yuv420_lines2... the asm version will be ignored.
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21:47:24*gevaerts isn't happy. The sansa OF just decide to reset its usb connection when my 1GB read was nearly done
21:47:25shotofaddsThibG: hehe, now to make the dithered version work, too ;-)
21:47:51ThibGhm... doesn't look like it's using tcctool... I won't try :]
21:48:19ThibGI'll see the screen corruption thing first
21:57:39gevaertsGood news. Another 1GB written without data corruption
21:58:31preglowgevaerts: how is the transfer rate compared to retailos anyway?
21:58:35ThibGshotofadds, how should the 1/4 test look?
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21:59:19*gevaerts looks
21:59:55shotofaddsThibG: should be a small shaded rectangle in the centre of the screen. I get some weird effect that wraps across into the next line down
22:00:18ThibGI think I've found why it doesn't work fine
22:00:30*ThibG is recompiling rockbox
22:02:27*gevaerts is benchmarking
22:02:52ThibGit works
22:03:33 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")
22:03:49*mcuelenaere thinks the LUA viewer works pretty well on the simulator
22:05:08ThibG13fps... it's slow :(
22:05:55gevaertspreglow: the OF: read 4.8 MB/s, write 3.9 MB/s. Rockbox as of this morning (with corruption): read 5.8 MB/s write 3.0 MB/s. The latest version (without corruption): write 2.6 MB/s (read unchanged)
22:06:10gevaertsAll this on a microSD card
22:06:22gevaertsSo in short, they are faster on write, we are faster on read
22:06:53*gevaerts is proud about being 20% faster than the OF on read
22:07:58bertrikso... this probably means we can enable sansa USB for 3.0?
22:08:24gevaertsProbably (if we enable portalplayer USB at all, that is)
22:09:37*domonoky now has problems building the .a file out of the universal .o files of rbspeex :-/
22:11:04linuxstbgevaerts: So it's 100% reliable on portalplayer in general, in terms of not corrupting filesystems?
22:12:37preglowgevaerts: any idea on how to write faster, then?
22:12:40gevaertslinuxstb: there is still an issue with remounting the filesystem within rockbox afterwards. That doesn't always work properly (details vague, sorry). Also, the hub/timing problem can in extreme cases throw the device off the bus
22:12:53gevaertspreglow: easy. Make the SD driver faster
22:13:12preglowgevaerts: i think that should be easy, from what i remember
22:13:28preglowi remember seeing read optimizations, but no write
22:13:47gevaertspreglow: if I work with a ramdisk, I get around 10MB/s for both read and write
22:14:35preglowgevaerts: driver seems to imply the writes are slow intentionally
22:14:45*gevaerts would commit the ramdisk code, but it has limited usefulness (only usb testing), and lots of ugly ifdefs
22:15:12gevaertspreglow: possibly. I don't feel confident changing that code too much though
22:15:16linuxstbIt could be used to mimic the Sansa recovery mode...
22:15:31gevaertsIt could, but why?
22:16:08preglowon that note, it's time for another d2 sd hacking session
22:16:11preglowmay i be crowned with success
22:16:21linuxstbgevaerts: To replace the Sansa bootloader completely.
22:16:29shotofaddspreglow: I wish you well ;-)
22:17:02preglowshotofadds: i got myself a tv out cable today, btw, not exactly stellar quality :)
22:17:24shotofaddsnah, I wouldn't expect too much from 320x240 on a TV...
22:18:17gevaertslinuxstb: ah, ok. We would need bootloader usb then, which requires bootloader interrupts. Also, why not just use the flash then?
22:18:53 Quit midgey (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:19:05ThibGI uploaded the new patch... but I don't see what I can do to improve framerate, now
22:19:07 Join midgey [0] (
22:19:38shotofaddsThibG: yeah, that works. btw you can force the CPU to boost from the Debug menu - that should get you over >50fps
22:19:54shotofadds(the original ASM version was 78fps, btw)
22:20:18ThibG78fps without boost?
22:20:27linuxstbgevaerts: What do you mean by "use the flash" ?
22:20:52shotofaddsno, with boost
22:21:27shotofaddsseems "fast enough" for MpegPlayer already though :-)
22:21:55gevaertslinuxstb: if we have usb anyway, can't we just allow direct disk access, and (if needed for bootloader work) let the user put a file directly on the filesystem?
22:22:45shotofaddspreglow: did you get any further with the SD stuff, still having problems with data transfer?
22:23:04linuxstbgevaerts: Probably.... Although why does the Sansa have a recovery mode like that at all then?
22:24:32gevaertslinuxstb: good question. Maybe you should ask them ;)
22:25:07Lloreanpreglow: Does the D2 TV out use the headphone jack or the accessory one?
22:25:31shotofaddsLlorean: apparently it's through the custom accesory cable
22:25:44shotofaddsI don't know whether it can be sued as line-out though
22:25:51preglownot only was the reso bad
22:25:51shotofadds(I don't have the cable btw)
22:25:58preglowit was buggy too
22:26:03preglowhalf of the picture was grey
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22:26:30shotofaddsyuck. no wnoder people moan about it.
22:26:34*Llorean just recently got into the habit of enjoying hooking a portable device up to TVs for video watching
22:26:42shotofaddspreglow: what was the sounds like?
22:26:46preglowshotofadds: decent
22:26:56shotofaddsat least that's something...
22:26:57preglowshotofadds: and yeah, still have trouble data transfer on the sd side of things
22:27:20*domonoky think he did it !! can someone with mac try this ?">
22:27:37preglowdomonoky: on it
22:27:39shotofaddsscorche|sh: did you get a chance to try fs#9096 on your m200 .. the telechips one, obviously ;-)
22:27:53shotofaddspreglow: gah, priorities, man!
22:28:25preglowdomonoky: what should i look or?
22:28:34shotofaddsThibG: I'll submit your patch to SVN and worry about optimising it later. thanks a lot for your effort.
22:28:47preglowshotofadds: remember CREDITS
22:28:49scorche|shshotofadds: sorry...was busy with laundry, life-planning, and sleep last night
22:28:52gevaertspreglow: D2 SD of course
22:28:55ThibGok :)
22:29:02domonokytry if it runs.. what mac do you have ? i am especially interested in ppc mac :-)
22:29:14preglowdomonoky: intel mac
22:29:15ThibGthanks for helping (and find things like width/2 :P)
22:30:10domonokyat least file tells me this build is universal.. so i hope it works on both..
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22:34:21bluebrothersigh. How is __declspec(dllexport) supposed to work on non-windows?
22:34:54gevaertsAh, yes. That one. Needs a define depending on OS I think
22:35:09 Quit mf0102 (Remote closed the connection)
22:35:38gevaertsRemove it on linux, and add a file with all exported functions somewhere to feed to ld
22:35:38*bluebrother hates Qt code being tied to w32
22:36:52*shotofadds needs to find an editor that likes UTF-8 before fixing credits :/
22:37:04*gevaerts recommends gvim
22:38:10*bluebrother seconds gevaerts :)
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22:39:04*ThibG is surprised that some editors don't like UTF-8
22:40:18gevaertsshotofadds: if all else fails, use a hex editor
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22:42:53preglowdomonoky: works fine on intel mac
22:45:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:47:57domonokynow i need a makefile wizzard: we need to build librbspeex two times with different -arch parameters for gcc. and afterwards use lipo to combine them into one librbspeex.a. All with keeping how the makefile works for other linux and mac... someone has a idea on how to do this ?
22:48:17*shotofadds thanks the lord for Notepad2
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22:49:23bluebrotherdomonoky: use ifeq () in make
22:49:41bluebrotherand set some mac-specific definition before calling it
22:49:56gevaertsdomonoky: how about always building librbspeex$(ARCH).a, for everyone?
22:49:56bluebrotherother option: add a new makefile rule and call that instead ;-)
22:50:47domonokyyes, i know i can use ifeq with uname and Darwin, like it is done for mingw... but we need to run the make twize.. thats my problem.. :-/
22:50:59ThibGtime to go, bye
22:51:38bluebrothergevaerts idea sounds reasonable to me. Just add two rules to the pro file for mac
22:51:59*shotofadds grabs that 18000
22:52:10preglowanyone tried using tcctool in a vmware linux?
22:52:15bluebrotheror make a rule including $(ARCH) and make the librbspeex rule call both ones on mac
22:52:30shotofaddspreglow: I can't even build it in the 'official' vmware image
22:52:34shotofaddslibusb problems
22:52:40preglowshotofadds: it has no libusb-dev
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22:52:52scorche|shwell, that should be fixed soon
22:52:56preglowi've made my own image, so that doesn't matter
22:53:00scorche|shi am aiming for this weekend
22:53:01*bluebrother suggests apt-get
22:53:13Bagderisn't usb stuff in vmware generally a bit problematic?
22:53:24 Quit ThibG ("Quitte")
22:53:36scorche|shBagder: it depends...the problem arises from windows grabbing it, then releasing it, then vmware grabbing it
22:53:39gevaertsI would expect so, especially with these id-changing reconnect tricks
22:53:43Bagdere200tool always had problems for example
22:53:49shotofaddsbluebrother: this image is so old apt-get tries to upgrade practically everything
22:53:51preglowbut the resulting binary spouts usb_set_configuration failed (-1) and dies
22:54:03preglowthis is vmware on mac, btw
22:54:10 Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:54:16preglowusb seems to work fine, but then again, this is raw access
22:54:18scorche|shshotofadds: i know i know...should be fixed soon =P
22:54:25bluebrothershotofadds: ok ... but you can always build it yourself
22:54:34*bluebrother did for getting the static object for rbutil binaries
22:54:49preglowtcctool does see the d2, though, i get something different if it's not connected
22:55:18*bluebrother still didn't succeed accessing his m200 with tcctool :(
22:55:22shotofaddsbluebrother: of course, but if I move the mouse a few inches to the right the win32 version works already ;-)
22:55:49*preglow is pretty dependent on tcctool to avoid going mad while coding on his d2
22:55:56*shotofadds too
22:55:58Bagder"New Revision: 18000"
22:56:14Bagderand the winner is shotofadds
22:56:18*shotofadds waits to see if he broke anything
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22:56:29shotofaddsBagder: nah, the winner is ThibG
22:56:37Bagdera right!
22:57:32shotofaddshehe, this means we can watch Elephants Dream all we like on the D2 now :p
22:57:55gevaertsIf you can get it copied properly to the NAND that is ;)
22:58:10low_lightgevaerts: you forgot the SA9200 in your usb changes...or you could just use the HAVE_ATA_SD define for that type of controller
22:58:25shotofaddsgevaerts: copying TO is no problem... the other way round is more problematic :/
22:58:49shotofaddsthe frame rate seems nice, btw
22:58:51gevaertslow_light: right. I'll fix it
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22:59:59Lloreanshotofadds: What's "nice" mean in numbers? :)
23:00:28shotofaddslow_light: what firmware version is your c100 btw?
23:00:46shotofaddsLlorean: I'm not sure, I can't read the FPS display :/ but it's >20 fps
23:00:54gevaertsAlthough it should probably also depend on portalplayer, or else preglow will be upset soon
23:00:59Lloreanshotofadds: Did you try running the widescreen version?
23:01:30shotofaddsnah, I haven't done any real testing yet. there's not much point until the NAND driver is a bit more reliable
23:01:48low_lightshotofadds: just adding that to's 1.0.003A
23:01:51shotofaddsvideo needs somewhat more date than audio...
23:02:17*gevaerts would consider the D2 usable when the either the SD driver or the NAND driver is ready
23:02:46*shotofadds too. the SD card will have to be the default drive, for saving setings, etc
23:03:06shotofaddsI think that'll be usable enough.
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23:03:30*Llorean hopes "consider it usable" isn't the same as "consider it ready to be called supported"
23:03:33shotofaddsI can live with (reliable) read-only internal flash access.
23:04:01shotofaddsLlorean: could you take a look at the To Do list I put on the CowonD2Info page and see if there's anything we should add
23:04:25gevaertsLlorean: there are indeed slight differences
23:04:36shotofaddsI doubt NAND write will happen this decade
23:04:45LloreanI just don't think "being able to use Rockbox effectively on the D2" should depend on ownership of an SD card.
23:04:55LloreanAt least, if we're going to call it a "supported target"
23:05:16preglowdamn, d2's really hung
23:05:19preglowneed to find a pin
23:05:29low_lightshotofadds: perhaps the other versions use the nand controller through the 0x60000000 regs
23:05:49preglowLlorean: ideally, no, but write support will be such a bitch
23:05:56shotofaddspreglow: hold power for >1s and it should power off 8 seconds later :-)
23:05:59preglowshotofadds: nope
23:06:06preglowdoesn't work
23:06:19shotofaddsLlorean: I don't think that's a realistic aim. SD cards are two-a-penny, frankly.
23:06:24preglowshotofadds: usually does, but not today
23:06:33 Quit Schmogel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:06:34shotofaddspreglow: eek! what did you do?
23:06:34Lloreanshotofadds: I think it's perfectly realistic.
23:06:43shotofaddsyou code it, then :p
23:06:45LloreanThere's no reason to tell people "It's a supported target" when it requires additional hardware to use.
23:06:49preglowshotofadds: leave it in tcctool mode for too long
23:06:54LloreanIs there some reason we're in a hurry to call it supported?
23:07:01preglowwe're not
23:07:13LloreanThe Gigabeast isn't supported and it's MUCH more functional than the D2 will be if it depends on an SD card to be usable.
23:07:34 Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら")
23:07:40shotofaddsLlorean: no, there's no hurry. but what I'm saying is that I don't think write support is achieveable for us, full stop.
23:07:42LloreanI say we keep it in the "Rockbox runs, but it's still only a development version" until we don't have to require people buy extra hardware just to be able to change their settings.
23:07:50gevaertsActually, I've been thinking. (shout if this is too far fetched). Would something like jffs2 have the needed wear-leveling features ? And if so, and supposing we have MTP support, could we (at least in theory) go that way?
23:08:08preglowpfew, tcctool just needed a sudo
23:08:10 Join EspeonEefi [0] (
23:08:24Bagdergevaerts: jffs2 has wear-leveling features, yes
23:08:29preglowwear-levelling is always needed
23:08:40preglowthese nands can't take too many writes to one block before going flakey
23:08:43shotofaddsgevaerts: if we forbade OF access, yes.
23:08:49Lloreanshotofadds: As to the list on the wiki page, I think both "FM" and the battery calibration, and the solution to the playback delay can all go under "'nice to have" rather than requirements for it to be called usable
23:08:57*bluebrother managed to build for the wps editor \o/
23:09:11gevaertsshotofadds: indeed. No UMS and no dual boot would be the price
23:09:25 Join borges [0] (
23:09:26shotofadds..and no DAB, Flash Player, etc for people who like those things
23:09:47gevaertsDAB may be easier than NAND :)
23:09:54preglowi'm pretty sure it will be...
23:09:58shotofaddsthat's probably not a joke
23:10:07LloreanAnd telling the people they need to make a choice between using the OF and using Rockbox is something we've done before.
23:10:44gevaertsI think no UMS would be the hardest sell. People here don't seem to like MTP
23:10:46shotofaddsI don't think even I'd be happy with that, though.
23:11:19preglowbut no, given the difficulty in even having good _READ_ access work, i think write access is highly unlikely
23:12:21gevaertsAnyway it would need a lot of work (easier than NAND, but still a lot), so it's probably only good as a fallback if nothing else works
23:12:24bluebrotherstill segfaults though
23:13:18shotofaddsI don't see the problem with requiring an SD card for Rockbox. I'd have though most users serious enough to play with Rockbox will probably be using the SD card capabilities already.
23:13:43gevaertsFor the D2, yes. But what about the other telechips players with direct NAND and no sd slot?
23:13:47shotofaddsIf anyone moans I have a 16Mb and a 32Mb from digital cameras to supply :p
23:13:58Lloreanshotofadds: Why do we need to call it "supported" so badly?
23:14:08shotofaddsI didn't say we did.
23:14:17gevaertsWe want to call it "usable"
23:14:18LloreanFor one, if you have an SD card as the only place to save settings, you end up with settings changing when/if you swap cards.
23:14:30gevaertsThat's a feature :)
23:14:38LloreanAs well, people will have D2s, try to install Rockbox, find it doesn't work reliably, and report bugs against it before finding out they need an SD card
23:14:42shotofaddsYes indeedy. But that's better than no write access at all
23:14:50midgeyBagder: the newest version of 9067 is mostly the same as the version I sent you a few days ago. I slightly cleaned up my changes to genlang and (regarding PlainTalk on Mac) and fixed Chessbox bulding. It should work the exact same way.
23:15:06shotofaddsWell no, I wouldn't allow them able to install it without an SD card.
23:15:09Llorean"usable" doesn't mean anything
23:15:13shotofadds(if we go that route)
23:15:17LloreanWe either endorse it as "supported" or say it's still a development version.
23:15:49LloreanI mean, we either provide builds and manuals for it, or we don't.
23:16:13shotofaddsI think we should be providing builds and manuals from the point when it is usable.
23:16:30gevaertsI think we need to distinguish "usable for developers", and "supported". SD is clearly sufficient for the first case, so I think we should concentrate on that
23:16:34LloreanThen you're advocating making it a "supported" target in everything but perhaps front page mention.
23:16:44LloreanPeople will see it on the "Builds" page and think the front page is out of date.
23:17:11Lloreangevaerts: usable for developers doesn't require a manual or "Current Build" download.
23:17:30shotofaddsI'm not advocating anything. I'm just saying that, in your scenario, the D2 will never reach the front page. I'll say again, write support is not realistic. So frankly we might as well not bother.
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23:18:13Lloreanshotofadds: Many things have been said to be unrealistic. Obviously the OF engineers were able to do it, so it is within the realm of possibility, just not necessarily probability.
23:18:25LloreanWhy should we put it on the front page if it's just going to generate a lot of bug reports?
23:18:39midgeyBagder: have you looked at the talking changes (mainly to genlang)?
23:19:01Bagdermidgey: not properly yet, no
23:19:09gevaertsBagder: is the build master stuck?
23:19:37preglowi couldn't care less if we put it on the front page, really
23:20:11midgeyBagder: I artificially add 0x16000 to all plugin language ids so there are no repeats in voicefontids
23:20:13Bagdergevaerts: I poked it now, let's see...
23:20:27preglowLlorean: they were able to develop it, we have to reverse-engineer it, in an area where a bug might render your flash unusable, so it'll be damned hard
23:20:58Bagdermidgey: I can't see any particularly bad with that
23:21:21Lloreanpreglow: I don't see that as a reason to mark it as "supported" though.
23:21:52gevaertsLlorean: maybe we can add a category below supported, but above "may work some day, someone might be working on it"
23:21:57LloreanI guess it's a question of "is it worse to leave a player in 'not quite supported' status, or to rush it out to users despite problems that will confuse and irritate them"
23:22:28midgeyWell great! I haven't really talked about my work much on IRC. It seemed like a good idea to discuss what I've done so far.
23:22:30preglowLlorean: i'm not saying it's a reason to mark it supported at all
23:22:53preglowbut then it'll have to be ok to have a target that'll never be supported
23:22:55Lloreanpreglow: Well I don't know what your point is at all. All I'm suggesting is that it stay "For Developers" and not be directly linked from the download or manual pages.
23:23:16preglow"for eclectic users"
23:23:22LloreanThat possibly too.
23:23:34bluebrotherthere will be too much eclectic users ...
23:24:03*gevaerts would find a "supported, with serious (but documented and not necessarily dangerous) limitations" category acceptable
23:24:29preglowi don't really care, not much will change for me
23:24:43preglowpeople will still use it, post bugs and come along with code from time to time
23:24:56shotofaddsI think documentation and an installation method is a pre-requisite. There's no point in trying to do a port if we can't at least aim to get that far.
23:25:17preglowooh, new d2 dab firmware
23:25:34shotofaddspreglow: yeah, and for the first time it works perfectly for me
23:25:35preglownow if i only understood what stages of the install cowon says i need to run...
23:26:04shotofaddsI flashed the '1' folder, but then it wouldn't play music, so I did a Quick Format from windows
23:26:05*domonoky now has a 4 way step to build the correct rbspeex lib: 1. "ARCH=ppc make librbspeexppc.a" 2. "make clean" 3. "ARCH=i386 make librbspeexi386.a" 4. "make universal" :-)
23:26:07shotofaddsall is fine since
23:26:20gevaertsIf the only limitation is "you need an SD card", I see no reason not to have an easiy accessible manual and build, provided that there are enough warnings nearby (such as a split download table)
23:26:26preglowshotofadds: so you don't think just flashing 2 is enough?
23:26:41domonokybut we can add it to the pro file, so nobody has todo it by hand..
23:27:27Lloreangevaerts: And, rbutil?
23:27:35shotofaddspreglow: oh yeah, you need 2 as well. but don't bother with 0 :-)
23:28:05LloreanI think for a target to be "supported" someone needs to be able to stumble across the Rockbox website, say "oooh, I have that player" and within an hour have it installed without further investment.
23:28:06shotofaddsLlorean: yes. given sufficient warning. you've heard of "managing expectations", right?
23:28:18gevaertsLlorean: rbutil could have a "show limited ports" setting
23:28:19LloreanI wouldn't object to the dev.cgi page having separate download binaries for "In development" targets
23:28:21 Quit low_light (" ajax IRC Client")
23:28:28LloreanSo a binary version IS available, but it's on an entirely different page, and is "In Development"
23:28:42*shotofadds likes gevaerts' idea
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23:28:54Lloreanshotofadds: I've spent 3 years providing support for this software. "managing expectations" doesn't work when people skip all text and go straight to the download link.
23:29:10preglowshotofadds: i mean flashing just 2, isn't one just graphics and shit? they usually don't update that
23:29:31gevaertsJust clearly separate "fully working" ports and "not fully working, but clearly documented limitations, and unlikely to get any farther" ports
23:29:49shotofaddsLlorean: I realise that. I just don't want to see things end up as another dead port a la iFP.
23:30:03bluebrotherdomonoky: don't forget if someone wants to build rbspeex{dec,enc}
23:30:32domonokyit works building them, but they wont be universal..
23:30:37Lloreanshotofadds: If it's incomplete, it's incomplete. How will it be "dead" if it's just relegated to an "In Development" section rather than claiming it's working and supported?
23:30:39shotofaddspreglow: I flashed the d2_rs.bin as I noticed the date had changed (but yeah it's just graphics and stuff)
23:31:05Lloreanshotofadds: People can still get it, and people can still download it. It's just excessively clear it's not finished yet.
23:31:10shotofaddsLlorean: sitting in limbo with no manual and no installer *ever* sounds pretty dead to me
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23:31:29LloreanI never said no manual. I said no linked manual.
23:31:35*gevaerts thinks that different people have different views of what "incomplete" means.
23:32:18LloreanI consider it "complete" when enough of the internal hardware is working that one can use it for the core functionality by simply installing Rockbox on it.
23:32:20gevaertsWe don't support TV out on the ipod video, and lots of ipod remotes. Does that make the ipod port incomplete and therefore unsupported ?
23:32:33Lloreangevaerts: None of those are "core" functionality, in any way, of Rockbox.
23:32:39scorche|shshotofadds: this really is a philosophy thing...calling the D2 port complete would be a complete change in what we have done in the past
23:32:42LloreanPlaying music and saving playlists are.
23:32:56Lloreanscorche|sh: That's debatable, this is a unique situation.
23:33:15scorche|shLlorean: i dont think would apply to other targets
23:33:29LloreanMaybe the iFP, I understand it had read-only flash access and could play music.
23:34:54LloreanWhat's wrong with calling it "In Development" if a binary's still made available?
23:35:13scorche|shnothing in my opinion
23:35:37shotofaddsLlorean: nothing, but I don't get why you said "no linked manual"
23:35:54*shotofadds is going for a cuppa. back in a bit
23:35:55gevaertsIf that means that it will effectively stay "In Development" forever, it may affect motivation
23:36:42scorche|shwell, we cant very well call it complete just like the other targets
23:36:50LloreanI would think "giving up and calling builds supported" would motivate people to more readily try to claim "workarounds are good enough"
23:37:19Lloreanshotofadds: If the wiki page is good enough for installing it, why do we need one?
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23:39:24gevaertsI don't see any problem with separating full ports and limited ports, but I do see problems with hiding ports that are easy to install and perfectly usable by normal users provided they have an SD card.
23:39:58scorche|shas long as it is separate, i am fine
23:40:09LloreanI don't see putting it on the development page as hiding it.
23:40:15scorche|shand it isnt like we should be keeping anyone from making a manual for the device if they wish to
23:40:41shotofaddsLlorean: oh come on. There are plenty of people who know what an SD card is who shouldn't need to complete bootloaders and the like themselves. an easy patching method is a necessity, at least
23:40:54PaulJamlet the RSB decide ;)
23:40:56Lloreanshotofadds: And I never said anything against an easy patching method...
23:41:04shotofaddstrue :)
23:41:13*shotofadds is really going now.
23:41:45LloreanMy whole point, though, is that it should be "as clear as possible", not just "reasonably clear" that this version does not work like the other ones, and has unique and mandatory requirements for normal use.
23:42:11LloreanI think this is best served by not providing it in the same place as other builds, because people *will* skip past the fact that it's in a different table, or further down the page, or whatever.
23:42:35scorche|shwith a link of the burrent builds page/
23:42:45gevaertsI agree, but my point is that it should also be "as clear as possible" that these are not just random in development ports that maybe have a half-working bootloader
23:43:05LloreanThe current builds page can have a link to an anchor on the other page for "Other builds in varying states of usability" or some such
23:43:21Lloreangevaerts: We don't provide binaries for those at all, though...
23:43:31LloreanAs long as that policy doesn't change, there's nothing to get it confused with.
23:44:09gevaertsWe don't link to binaries for those.
23:44:26 Quit Horscht ("User was distributing pornography on server; system seized by FBI")
23:44:52gevaertsAnyway, I think we mostly agree, except maybe on minor details. We can solve those when preglow has finished the sd driver :)
23:45:05LloreanI mean, they need special install instructions anyway.
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23:45:23LloreanHow about a single link on the "Current Build" page to "Mostly Usable Ports"
23:45:25preglowlet's just introduce a "port status" or something :>
23:45:32gevaertsLlorean: That works
23:45:34LloreanOn that page we provide links to individual install instructions, and "current" binaries for each
23:45:43scorche|shLlorean: that is what i was thinking
23:45:49preglowFeature-complete ports and Partial ports
23:46:37LloreanAnd I really don't think they should show up in RBUtil by default. Maybe if some "Include in-development builds" option is set and a warning is given.
23:46:42preglowas long as we make it visible that a port is limited in some ways, i don't see any good reasons not to call them "supported"
23:47:04preglowbut it'd have to be very well visible
23:47:45gevaertsWhether we call them supported or not is irrelevant IMO. What is relevant is if we _can_ support what's there
23:47:49preglowLlorean: if you've fired up rbutil with the intent of installing it on your dap, you've already pretty much decided you're gonna go for it, no use in making it more difficult than it has to
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23:48:21Lloreanpreglow: If you've fired up RBUtil and then read through the list and see a bunch of players not listed on the front page, you might just think the website is out of date?
23:48:25preglowi'd rather prefer a warning if you do try it, since that'd only be a simple "ok" to push instead of some option to switch on
23:48:34LloreanWhat's wrong with a single extra configuration option, especially if it's just a checkbox on the player select screen, and obvious?
23:49:23preglownothing wrong per se, just more difficult than it has to be
23:49:28scorche|shit would be easy to just have it under another root
23:49:30gevaertsHave Autodetect tell you "I didn't find a supported player, but turn on the less-supported-players options and try again"?
23:49:30preglowbut anyway, i'm gonna just not care about this
23:49:33LloreanAnd less misleading.
23:49:48preglowi'll do my coding no matter what people label the port
23:50:08Lloreangevaerts: Or even "Found Cowon D2: Build is usable but does not contain all functionality, continue?"
23:50:19preglowLlorean: sounds good
23:51:00gevaertsLlorean: Make that show a short summary of what's missing, and you;
23:51:03gevaerts're there
23:51:07LloreanI'm still dubious about using the term "Supported" the same way we do for more complete builds.
23:51:09preglowi'd be perfectly comfortable with that, less chances of people posting to ask why their d2 is not found
23:51:22LloreanThough I guess another possibility is splitting "Current Builds" into "Current Builds of Released Targets" and "Unreleased Targets"
23:51:33LloreanThen we can just leave the D2 without a release version.
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23:52:22LloreanAny unreleased target is either going to be new, or missing _some_ fundamental functionality we decided warranted holding it back.
23:52:46gevaertsIt can be handled exactly the same as those targets that we may throw out for not having charging, or no clickwheel
23:52:55LloreanOr being unable to turn off.
23:53:15gevaertsindeed. There really is no practical difference I guess
23:53:40Llorean"you can use it, but some things won't work like you'd reasonably expect"
23:54:08BagderYCUIBSTWWLYRE ?
23:54:25Bagdernow pronounce that!
23:54:49 Join Mardass [0] (n=Mardoxx@
23:55:26gevaertsBagder: we're on irc. We don't _have_ to pronounce it ;)
23:55:37preglowthink of the devcons!
23:55:42Bagderwhat? you don't read everything out loud?
23:56:09gevaertspreglow: at devcons we're not dealing with normal users, so this phrase doesn't apply ;)
23:56:09preglowor are devcons irc only too? :>
23:56:26gevaertsActually, now that you mention it...
23:56:49gevaertsBagder: I only write out loud

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