| 00:00:08 | LinuxMafia | any one has any idea? |
| 00:00:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | I ran rockboxdev.sh on my PowerBook to get a build environment set up, and by instinct select 'all' to set up all of the needed compilers. |
| 00:01:02 | scorche | LinuxMafia: which ipod nano version is it? |
| 00:01:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | I know that MIPS was added recently to support the Onda players and required environment, but it seems that some little bits of needed information are still not in rockboxdev.sh regarding PATH setup. |
| 00:01:30 | LinuxMafia | scorche, to be honest with you i dont know |
| 00:01:42 | LambdaCalculus37 | So what's the path to the MIPS compiler so I can add it into my $PATH? |
| 00:01:52 | scorche | LinuxMafia: could you find an image for us on google image search of what your ipod nano looks like? |
| 00:02:02 | scorche | there are different versions of those devices |
| 00:02:13 | Bagder | LambdaCalculus37: the MIPS one is not yet included in the all build |
| 00:02:14 | LambdaCalculus37 | LinuxMafia: Three versions, as a matter of fact. |
| 00:02:23 | d1sturb | Is it possible to add a visualizer to the WPS [i.e. G-Force] ? |
| 00:02:37 | LinuxMafia | sure just a sec |
| 00:03:30 | safetydan | d1sturb: no |
| 00:03:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | Bagder: Ahh, got it. But there's a small problem... I just tried compiling a Gigabeat S build, and got this: http://pastebin.com/m247bb1cc |
| 00:03:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | Any ideas? |
| 00:03:54 | LinuxMafia | http://images.appleinsider.com/product-red-ipod-mock2.gif |
| 00:03:54 | d1sturb | •safetydan• k, thanks |
| 00:04:02 | LinuxMafia | but it is silver |
| 00:04:15 | d1sturb | that's gen 2 |
| 00:04:21 | LambdaCalculus37 | LinuxMafia: 2nd gen nano... won't work. |
| 00:04:39 | Bagder | LambdaCalculus37: hm, I think that's some missing stuff on your computer or similar |
| 00:04:43 | | Quit d1sturb ("—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 3515") |
| 00:04:43 | LinuxMafia | but any one knows why when i connect it to pc nothing comes up? |
| 00:05:10 | LinuxMafia | is there any setting i have to change in it? |
| 00:05:12 | scorche | LinuxMafia: this is #rockbox...where we talking about (surprisingly) rockbox related items...your query doesnt really have anything to do with rockbox |
| 00:05:27 | scorche | s/talking/talk |
| 00:05:29 | LinuxMafia | scorche, where can i ask? |
| 00:05:35 | scorche | i dont know, but not here |
| 00:05:56 | LinuxMafia | thanks |
| 00:06:01 | LinuxMafia | i try google |
| 00:06:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | Bagder: Well, according to the previous owner, there already was an install version of gcc on this Mac, but I think it's older than required. |
| 00:08:42 | * | LambdaCalculus37 checks to see if he does indeed have all of the Xcode tools, since gcc is included |
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| 00:12:31 | MarcGuay | Llorean: In a way, having "Draft version" writted all over the manual implies that there's a completed version somewhere, which is just another form of confusion. |
| 00:13:03 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Which will change in 1.5 months. |
| 00:13:16 | Llorean | Ideally we'll have a 3.0 manual to go with the 3.0 release. |
| 00:13:51 | MarcGuay | Llorean: Truth. |
| 00:14:05 | Llorean | To me, the idea behind the "draft version" on every page is that people realize it won't always be exactly up to date with the builds. If we had more consistency in updating keymapping changes, new menus, etc. I'd be more in favour of reducing it somewhat |
| 00:14:16 | Llorean | As it stands, I wouldn't mind if it were red and blinking in the HTML version. |
| 00:14:52 | preglow | draft watermark should definitely stay |
| 00:15:01 | MarcGuay | Llorean: I guess it lowers expectations a little, which is nice. It's just ugly and a little bit of a beat-you-over-the-head-with-it. |
| 00:15:01 | preglow | it'll make more sense once we start releasing |
| 00:15:23 | Llorean | MarcGuay: "beat you over the head" is kinda the only way to get the message across, I suspect. :) |
| 00:15:39 | Llorean | But yeah, I'm *really* hoping we'll have a decent enough 3.0 manual that the daily ones really are drafts |
| 00:16:39 | preglow | much in the way of that? |
| 00:16:39 | MarcGuay | Llorean: I think it's pretty close to golden. We just need to make some decisions regarding what's wiki material and what's manual material, then push those pieces into place. And add the minute details which are missing... |
| 00:17:07 | | Join shot0fadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds) |
| 00:17:30 | Llorean | MarcGuay: That's pretty much how I feel, but I don't want to state personal opinions on completeness just yet. I *intend* to eventually sit down and read through one complete manual for one of the players I know well. |
| 00:17:48 | Llorean | preglow: Huh? |
| 00:17:56 | MarcGuay | Llorean: I was about to say it would be nice if someone gave the whole thing a proper proof-read before signing off on it. |
| 00:18:26 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Well, if I end up RM I'll *have* to, if I avoid that dubious honor, I'll put it on the list of things an RM should sign off on. :) |
| 00:18:36 | MarcGuay | I don't think it will ever be perfect, the software is just too complex, but we can at least make sure that everything is covered and it reads well. |
| 00:18:59 | | Quit shotofadds (Nick collision from services.) |
| 00:19:04 | | Nick shot0fadds is now known as shotofadds (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds) |
| 00:20:07 | MarcGuay | preglow: If that gets committed don't forget the manual. :) I want that on a t-shirt with the RB logo stamped "Draft version". |
| 00:20:59 | preglow | MarcGuay: planning on updating the manual, yeah |
| 00:21:12 | preglow | just want top make sure it's in the form we want it |
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| 00:23:47 | MarcGuay | Does anyone want to help this guy? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17719.msg129817#msg129817 I don't understand the problem and tired of prodding for info. |
| 00:24:55 | MarcGuay | Martin Arver is a champion star. |
| 00:25:39 | | Quit MarcGuay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:29:01 | preglow | we seem to use setting \setting{} for both settings and actual settings choices |
| 00:29:13 | preglow | i think that's a typographical distinction worth making |
| 00:29:23 | preglow | ignore that first "setting" there, keyboard problems |
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| 00:29:43 | Llorean | preglow: Sounds sensible to me. |
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| 00:30:59 | preglow | settings themselves can be in small caps, as i thik they are. setting choices can be italic |
| 00:31:02 | amiconn | Llorean: Manual proof-reading needs to be done for all targets before release, preferably by someone who has the target(s) to compare the manual with reality |
| 00:31:15 | preglow | amiconn: i'd just read the source code |
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| 00:31:26 | preglow | but yeah, same result of course |
| 00:32:49 | Llorean | amiconn: Frankly, we have to accept that may not happen. Signing off on the overall readiness (in terms of understandability, etc) of the "Apps" layer manual bits can be done with almost any manual, with "individual target owners signing off on target-specific manuals" being a wish-list kinda thing |
| 00:32:52 | amiconn | Of course you can read the source for comparison. But it's more difficult, and easier to overlook details if you're not familiar with the real thing. That's why I seaid 'preferably' |
| 00:35:23 | andrewbeveridge | hello again :) |
| 00:35:28 | andrewbeveridge | I have found the cause of the problem, of sorts... I tried the same track, converted to different formats using MediaMonkey (my favourite audio organiser), to find that all of the converted files worked flawlessly! The original file, which causes faulty playback on rockbox, was converted using the "Windows Audio Converter" software which comes with Windows XP Media Center edition... |
| 00:35:35 | andrewbeveridge | I always knew the software was trash, as it incorrectly merges ID3v1 and 2 tags for *interesting* results. But something about WMA files produced by that software seemingly clashes with Rockbox. Sadly, every one of the several thousand WMAs in my collection was converted using this software, so I am still eager to figure out why rockbox doesnt like them. I mean, they play fine on the PC... |
| 00:35:40 | andrewbeveridge | Here is a link to the location of the faulty file and a working file, same format, but converted with different software, and also a sound recording of what playback of the faulty file sounds like when coming through speakers attached to my "rockpod". :) |
| 00:35:45 | andrewbeveridge | http://88.111.153.140/music/rockboxdebugging/ |
| 00:35:50 | pixelma | Llorean: I read the OndioFM manual completely once, the result was a todo list with things concerning this specific manual but also more general things. And it is still not "done" :\ |
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| 00:37:01 | | Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:37:15 | pixelma | that was about 1.5 years ago if that matters |
| 00:37:42 | Llorean | Are there any problems with it that you'd consider "release critical"? |
| 00:38:32 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: the problem was that these files skipped a lot, right? |
| 00:38:51 | andrewbeveridge | play the sample recording :) |
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| 00:39:54 | pixelma | Llorean: will have to go through that list now as I also had forgotten about it and things changed a bit and were done by someone else |
| 00:41:39 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: mok, thanks for the file, i'll relay it on the the wma guy if i don't have a look myself first |
| 00:41:57 | | Part DanHibiki |
| 00:42:43 | Llorean | pixelma: I would very, very much appreciate it if once you go through and remove anything you think might be fixed, you just made an "Ondio" header on the ManualTodo page and pasted it in there however you see fit. |
| 00:43:34 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: bad news, i tried the faulty file in vlc, and that also plays it wrong |
| 00:43:49 | andrewbeveridge | vlc plays all my wma files wrong :( |
| 00:43:56 | Lear | andrewbeveridge: Sounds strange. I'd suspect the decoder isn't quite up to spec. |
| 00:44:00 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: that means the only open source wma codec can't play it correctly, and our wma decoder is based on that |
| 00:44:10 | andrewbeveridge | wmp, mediamonkey, winamp, amarok, all play them fine |
| 00:44:24 | andrewbeveridge | ah |
| 00:44:26 | andrewbeveridge | right |
| 00:44:28 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: i suspect all of those use the windows decoder |
| 00:44:28 | pixelma | Llorean: yep, wouldn't even be too hard once I go through the facts |
| 00:44:42 | Lear | preglow: Even amarok? |
| 00:44:50 | andrewbeveridge | surely amarok uses the open source wma decoder too? |
| 00:44:52 | preglow | Lear: right, i don't know about that at all |
| 00:45:03 | preglow | well, if you find out about that, that'd be very interesting |
| 00:45:11 | preglow | i'll check out a new ffmpeg tree and try that out |
| 00:45:21 | andrewbeveridge | in fact i'm quite sure kaffeine plays them too |
| 00:45:25 | andrewbeveridge | so xine must |
| 00:46:08 | andrewbeveridge | i'm going to reboot into linux and do some more testing :) before i do, i'll upload those files to a permanent server so they are still accessible |
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| 00:47:55 | xxbatman94xx | does anybody know if anyone is still working on fixing the video player for the ipod photo? |
| 00:48:13 | Llorean | xxbatman94xx: What's wrong with the video player? |
| 00:48:29 | xxbatman94xx | it still has the color bug |
| 00:48:52 | Llorean | So does Rockbox itself. |
| 00:48:58 | Llorean | That's not a video-player specific problem. |
| 00:49:25 | xxbatman94xx | well i kno..but i mean have they made a patch yet? |
| 00:49:50 | Llorean | Well, I couldn't have known because you asked about the video player, rather than the actual problem. The video player itself was fine. No, nobody has made a patch yet. |
| 00:49:52 | | Quit xxbatman94xx (Client Quit) |
| 00:49:57 | Llorean | If there were an actual fix, we'd have included it. |
| 00:50:02 | Llorean | Ah well |
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| 00:50:17 | * | stripwax hmms |
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| 00:50:25 | pixelma | Llorean: hah, I also just remembered that there also must be a short list of amiconn's nitpicks on the Player manual somewhere around here ;) |
| 00:51:17 | | Quit xxbatman94xx (Client Quit) |
| 00:51:32 | Llorean | Honestly, much like the build itself, we can have hacked versions of the manual for 3.0 where we just manually type in things if there's no good way to do it within the current dynamic system. |
| 00:51:34 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: seems to work nice enough in ffmpeg svn |
| 00:51:51 | preglow | doesn't sound perfect, though |
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| 00:52:07 | andrewbeveridge | hmmm in what way? |
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| 00:52:27 | Llorean | They are pretty low bitrate, aren't they? |
| 00:52:58 | linuxstb | I've just been playing it with a recent mplayer, and it sounds OK... But mplayer is giving 3 or 4 "overflow in spectral RLE" errors near the start. |
| 00:53:04 | andrewbeveridge | well, as VBR WMA goes, no. I find a VBR 60-80 kbps MA file sounds exactly the same as a 128 kbps MP3 |
| 00:53:06 | linuxstb | (and it skips a little at those points) |
| 00:53:58 | Llorean | andrewbeveridge: I meant in an objective sense, not in a subjective "what you think of them" sense. |
| 00:53:59 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: none of them sounds nice in current ffmpeg |
| 00:54:08 | preglow | they play without gaps, but have horrible artifacts |
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| 00:54:20 | preglow | linuxstb: overflow in spectral rle isn't fatal and actually quite common |
| 00:54:55 | linuxstb | preglow: So you don't get any short skips near the start? |
| 00:54:56 | preglow | i don't have a native decoder handy, so don't know how it should sound |
| 00:54:59 | preglow | linuxstb: i do |
| 00:55:09 | preglow | but the whole file sounds nasty |
| 00:55:26 | andrewbeveridge | when you say "nasty", do you mean - andrewbeveridge.co.uk/rockboxdebugging/Faulty%20Playback%20(microphone%20recording">http://www.andrewbeveridge.co.uk/rockboxdebugging/Faulty%20Playback%20(microphone%20recording,%20first%2030%20seconds).mp3 |
| 00:55:27 | preglow | all transients are clicky, and the background noise is very granulated |
| 00:55:36 | linuxstb | I'm listening on my laptop's built-in "speakers", so can't comment on the quality... |
| 00:55:38 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: no, not gappy |
| 00:55:43 | andrewbeveridge | ah ok |
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| 00:58:14 | andrewbeveridge | i am beginning to regret choosing wma for my collection - although it takes up a lot less space, problems like these you just dont get with something as widely accepted as MP3. |
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| 00:58:26 | Lear | preglow: Amarok appears to use xine for playback, and xine seem to use ffmpegs decoder. Though there's wine stuff there too, so maybe it can use windows libraries too? |
| 00:58:33 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: you won't regret using vorbis if you want low bitrate files |
| 00:58:35 | Llorean | I wonder if it's a metadata thing |
| 00:58:42 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: i'm quite sure you'll find the quality superior |
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| 00:59:04 | Lear | Llorean: No, it wouldn't affect playback like this. |
| 00:59:14 | preglow | Lear: it might, i don't know, never had the piggyback dll stuff running |
| 00:59:31 | andrewbeveridge | i love vorbis, but i am yet to find a cheap personal audio player to suit my needs which plays them. obviously now i have rockbox that doesnt apply :) |
| 00:59:39 | Llorean | Lear: Well it sounds like it's playing something other than just the straight WMA data. |
| 00:59:39 | preglow | heh |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:37 | Llorean | Wow |
| 01:00:45 | Llorean | Seeking in that problematic file doesn't work either. |
| 01:01:06 | andrewbeveridge | um i use gstreamer in amarok not xine, both play both files fine.... admittedly seeking fails. |
| 01:01:25 | preglow | Llorean: ffmpeg vomits warnings for that file |
| 01:01:31 | preglow | it sounds the same as the other one, though |
| 01:01:49 | preglow | i'm quite sure gstreamer does not do dll piggybacking |
| 01:02:03 | pixelma | Llorean: I think a very important flaw in the Archos manuals are the outdated flashing instructions, unfortunately I don't know enough about the procedure myself... |
| 01:02:09 | Llorean | preglow: Seeking in-Rockbox works up to about halfway through the file, but any point after that seems to fail |
| 01:02:31 | Llorean | pixelma: Well, they may be drastically different for 3.0 anyway since you can't run from ROM any more. |
| 01:03:01 | pixelma | you still can without modifications on the Player and on the OndioSP |
| 01:03:10 | Llorean | True |
| 01:04:01 | Llorean | It may be better to just drop it as "supported" for release versions now though, since it may not last terribly much longer. |
| 01:04:19 | andrewbeveridge | could somebody send me a "clean" mp3 file, so i can convert it using the Windows Audio Converter software and compare the results - to make sure that software is the only problem |
| 01:05:17 | pixelma | Llorean: what? |
| 01:05:56 | Llorean | pixelma: There's a very good chance the bin is going to keep on growing. |
| 01:06:03 | pixelma | do you mean the flashing part or the Archos devices in general? |
| 01:06:07 | Llorean | The flashing part. |
| 01:06:15 | pixelma | ah |
| 01:06:16 | Llorean | Specifically the "execute from ROM" method. |
| 01:06:24 | Llorean | I don't know if the compressed image still fits or not |
| 01:08:20 | pixelma | well, I still "flash" the rockbox.ucl on my OndioFM which gets a bigger binary than the stock ones for backlight support |
| 01:08:40 | andrewbeveridge | ok i guess you guys have lost interest :) just to make sure - if i find out why the track fails to play properly in VLC, i solve the problem, right? |
| 01:10:09 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: sure |
| 01:10:42 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: but if you know ffmpeg to be the backend of whatever program you use, you'd be better off testing against an svn version of that |
| 01:10:48 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: since that's where we'll look |
| 01:11:37 | andrewbeveridge | does vlc win32 use ffmpeg? |
| 01:11:39 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:11:42 | preglow | yes |
| 01:11:59 | pixelma | Llorean: but I could live with dropping that chapter for the release, especially in this outdated state it is in |
| 01:12:00 | preglow | if you're into compiling your own stuff, it's no worse than just checking out the svn tree of ffmpeg and bulding the "ffmpeg" program |
| 01:12:06 | andrewbeveridge | ah ok thanks |
| 01:12:14 | preglow | ffmpeg -i infile.wma outfile.wav will decode |
| 01:12:22 | andrewbeveridge | yep |
| 01:12:41 | pixelma | Llorean: and it is rather something for advanced users |
| 01:12:41 | preglow | the ffmpeg people _might_ be interested in files that fail themselves |
| 01:13:10 | preglow | that is, they're quite certainly interested, but wma is a harder codec to fix, seeing as how there's no reference implementation |
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| 01:14:47 | Llorean | pixelma: Exactly |
| 01:15:21 | amiconn | Llorean: The compressed image still fits with a comfortable margin on all archoses |
| 01:15:42 | Llorean | amiconn: Good to hear. |
| 01:15:48 | amiconn | Ondio SP is ~5KB away from breaking rombox, Player ~40KB |
| 01:15:57 | andrewbeveridge | preglow: yeah, as is always the case with proprietary formats. i suppose the reason i chose wma was simple: my 1GB Creative Zen mp3 player played MP3s and WMAs, and with VBR WMA i could get twice the number of tracks ;) |
| 01:16:42 | * | pixelma wonders once more where [IDC]Dragon and his minimalistic bootloader went |
| 01:16:48 | amiconn | Flashing instructions itself aren't that difficult, writing them down in proper english is... |
| 01:17:43 | amiconn | We should also make a fresh set of flash images for the release (bootbox shoul dprfit from the numerous fixes of e.g. the fat driver) |
| 01:18:47 | pixelma | problem is that the ones who could write the instructions down in proper English probably don't know them too well |
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| 01:26:07 | preglow | someone write them in improper english first? |
| 01:26:55 | | Quit bughunter2 (Client Quit) |
| 01:28:28 | pixelma | that someone again? ;) |
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| 01:29:02 | Llorean | alias someone="preglow" |
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| 01:30:16 | preglow | haha |
| 01:30:50 | preglow | i wouldn't mind reading through improper english and taking a shot at cleaning it |
| 01:31:01 | preglow | but i have no clue about flashing |
| 01:31:37 | Llorean | Well, I think really we just need simplified instructions. |
| 01:31:45 | preglow | yup |
| 01:31:47 | Llorean | "Click on this file, press F1 to confirm, then F2 to confirm, then wait" |
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| 01:34:03 | preglow | great, now i'm hungry too |
| 01:34:08 | cHiLi_cOn_cArNe | any specific reason why the ipod shuffle is not supported by rockbox? |
| 01:34:28 | Llorean | cHiLi_cOn_cArNe: Because it has entirely different hardware, and no owner has stepped forward and worked on it. |
| 01:34:28 | preglow | cHiLi_cOn_cArNe: no one has figured out how to put any code on it |
| 01:34:45 | cHiLi_cOn_cArNe | o ok fair enough :D |
| 01:35:17 | cHiLi_cOn_cArNe | I should've never gotten the ipoo :,( |
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| 01:38:51 | pixelma | Llorean: I'd like to have the installation instructions that way - e.g. Sansa manuals: (1) check original firmware version etc... |
| 01:40:16 | | Quit erram_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:40:46 | andrewbeveridge | preglow: um, i've just grabbed the latest ffmpeg, and it plays both files perfectly. |
| 01:40:52 | Llorean | pixelma: Honestly, I'd like to get rid of the "manual install" section (either move it to the end of the manual, or offload it into the wiki, and leave future manual installs in the wiki from the get-go) then just include "Special Instructions" to use alongside RBUtil in the normal install bit |
| 01:41:09 | andrewbeveridge | preglow: nobody is responding at the ffmpeg irc channel anyway |
| 01:43:53 | preglow | andrewbeveridge: really, now |
| 01:44:06 | preglow | didn't sound very perfect here :> |
| 01:44:29 | preglow | manual install shoul go in the wiki, imho |
| 01:45:05 | Llorean | preglow: That's my preference, but since we've got it in the manuals already, hiding it in an appendix or something is an option |
| 01:45:13 | preglow | there's no good reason to spend time polishing something most people won't ever read |
| 01:46:52 | preglow | time to hit the bed anyway |
| 01:46:52 | preglow | good night |
| 01:47:29 | andrewbeveridge | preglow: hmmm i'm using a precompiled win32 binary |
| 01:47:47 | andrewbeveridge | preglow: ah ok goodnight, i'll keep trying to figure out the problem :) thanks |
| 01:48:09 | pixelma | Llorean: maybe yes, but I also meant things you should know or do before running RBUtil (like the check for v1 or v2 Sansa, stuff like that). And if there wasn't a change recently I missed - before moving the manual installation out - there are some things mentioned there which apply generally (e.g. losing the DRM support if you install on an US 300) |
| 01:48:48 | andrewbeveridge | just in case it makes any difference, the ffmpeg build i'm using is r13778 |
| 01:48:57 | pixelma | Llorean: and there are things which *IMO* should still be mentioned even though RBUtil should guide the user through that, like starting the firmware upgrade process in the OF on H300. All in all - before moving it out, it needs some work... |
| 01:49:06 | Llorean | pixelma: I'd consider those "special instructions that apply to RBUtil" as well. |
| 01:49:29 | Llorean | Any step that's not the same for *all* players should be mentioned first in the RButil section of the manual |
| 01:50:02 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 01:50:11 | cHiLi_cOn_cArNe | not trying to be a nuisance but is there anyway to play oggvorbis on ipod? (that anyone would no of? if not perfectly fine just trying to see if its possible) |
| 01:50:46 | | Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-17ff0d67d737a98d) |
| 01:50:48 | cHiLi_cOn_cArNe | know of* |
| 01:51:11 | Llorean | cHiLi_cOn_cArNe: This channel is for Rockbox. If you have questions about the shuffle, which is not supported, please take them elsewhere |
| 01:52:13 | cHiLi_cOn_cArNe | Llorean: o ok lol my bad (really cool project though) ill go :D |
| 01:52:32 | | Part cHiLi_cOn_cArNe |
| 01:53:09 | | Quit GodEater (K-lined) |
| 01:54:24 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:57:31 | andrewbeveridge | does anybody know what build of ffmpeg the soundcodecwma decoder was taken from? |
| 01:58:15 | andrewbeveridge | (when development on adding wma functionality to rockbox got going in 2007) |
| 01:59:52 | saratoga | andrewbeveridge: the current build |
| 01:59:59 | saratoga | i've backported all wma updates to rockbox |
| 02:00 |
| 02:01:06 | andrewbeveridge | ah, thanks... um i cant understand the problem then |
| 02:01:18 | saratoga | does ffmpeg decode your file correctly? |
| 02:01:31 | andrewbeveridge | a win32 binary of ffmpeg build 13778 does perfectly |
| 02:01:43 | saratoga | then i've broken something |
| 02:02:34 | andrewbeveridge | well, not necessarily - i may be doing something wrong... please, try witht he same file i am using: andrewbeveridge.doesntexist.com/music/index.php?dir=rockboxdebugging/ffmpeg/">http://andrewbeveridge.doesntexist.com/music/index.php?dir=rockboxdebugging/ffmpeg/ |
| 02:03:12 | | Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 02:04:41 | Llorean | saratoga: Does the warning/error "multiple frames in a packet from stream 0" indicate anything to you? |
| 02:04:53 | saratoga | Llorean: is that from rockbox? |
| 02:04:57 | Llorean | No, ffmpeg on that wma |
| 02:05:21 | saratoga | you'd have to ask linuxstb, but I think that sounds ok, wma can have lots of frames in one packet i think |
| 02:05:33 | Llorean | Well, the "working" WMA doesn't give that message. |
| 02:05:41 | Llorean | While the "bad" one gives it many, many times |
| 02:06:45 | andrewbeveridge | saratoga, out of interest, are you developing on windows or linux? |
| 02:09:38 | saratoga | andrewbeveridge: both |
| 02:10:15 | saratoga | Llorean: let me look at the ffmpeg source and see what that message refers to |
| 02:11:09 | Llorean | I would assume if it were "normal", it probably wouldn't say anything. Then again, who knows what they decide is worth telling the user about. :) |
| 02:12:27 | saratoga | Llorean: i'm not seeing that message in the ffmpeg source |
| 02:12:32 | saratoga | is that exactly what it says? |
| 02:12:34 | | Quit bertrik ("bye") |
| 02:12:38 | | Quit obo ("bye") |
| 02:13:17 | Llorean | Multiple frames in a packet from stream 0 |
| 02:14:32 | saratoga | Llorean: do you have the ffmpeg source for that build handy? my tar is kind of old it could be newer |
| 02:15:19 | Llorean | saratoga: Nah, I just tracked down the windows binary I'm about 80% sure andrewbeveridge tested with, so I could duplicate his results |
| 02:16:07 | Llorean | It should just be rev 13778, from this site: http://oss.netfarm.it/mplayer-win32.php |
| 02:16:59 | andrewbeveridge | Llorean: nah, i got it from here: http://arrozcru.no-ip.org/ffmpeg_builds/ but it is the same build |
| 02:18:19 | andrewbeveridge | Llorean: I got the latest (13778) ffmpeg executable from here: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ffmpeg |
| 02:19:00 | saratoga | from the sound of the glitching, I'd guess that huffman decoding is failing causing the entire packet to be skipped every so often |
| 02:19:10 | saratoga | thats why it seems to keep jumping ahead |
| 02:20:07 | saratoga | i tried tweaking the huffman settings but it didn't seem to do anything |
| 02:20:55 | andrewbeveridge | but, what difference between the two files could cause problems related to that? |
| 02:21:46 | saratoga | i didn't look at the second file, what is it? |
| 02:22:02 | Llorean | saratoga: He just reencoded the same song with a different WMA encoder |
| 02:23:10 | saratoga | oh i wouldn't be surprised that works |
| 02:23:26 | saratoga | our decoder seems quite good, this is only 1 of 2 known problem samples |
| 02:23:44 | andrewbeveridge | exactly - same supposed "format" and "bitrate" settings etc - i just used better software. ironic that the "official" Microsoft software for audio conversion does a botch job of WMA files. |
| 02:23:53 | saratoga | well plus a third i haven't commited a fix for yet since linuxstb hasn't been around for me to ask about it |
| 02:24:02 | Llorean | andrewbeveridge: I wouldn't say they do a botch job. |
| 02:24:05 | Llorean | Since they define the format. |
| 02:24:45 | andrewbeveridge | Llorean: well, I had problems with the same software a while ago when i realised it incorrectly merges id3v1 and id3v2 tags |
| 02:25:28 | Llorean | andrewbeveridge: But that's irrelevant to whether or not they do a botch job of the encoding itself. :-P |
| 02:25:30 | | Quit andrewbeveridge ("CGI:IRC") |
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| 02:26:10 | | Part pixelma |
| 02:26:19 | andrewbeveridge | thats the point i'm making - they created/defined the format, but this microsoft software outputs files which are poorly encoded! |
| 02:26:53 | | Join mackes [0] (n=root@cpe-24-198-42-31.buffalo.res.rr.com) |
| 02:26:53 | Llorean | andrewbeveridge: You can't define "poorly encoded" based on whether other nonstandard players play them poorly. |
| 02:27:52 | saratoga | decoding seems to fail because new blocks periodically don't pass a sanity check |
| 02:28:11 | saratoga | this probably means that the previous block did not decode correclty and it screwed up the position of the file pointer |
| 02:28:24 | saratoga | so the parser is still somewhere between blocks when the new block starts decoding |
| 02:28:25 | | Join LiF1 [0] (n=LiFo@c-66-177-147-41.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 02:28:50 | LiF1 | i just installed rockbox on my ipod, wow it's nice...anyone know how to exit the mandelbrot app? i'm stuck.. |
| 02:29:01 | andrewbeveridge | Llorean: yeah, i guess. I've slipped into MS-bashing mode again, forget thinking clearly and being fair ;) |
| 02:30:08 | | Quit culture (Operation timed out) |
| 02:30:56 | andrewbeveridge | LiF1: switch the iPod off? :) |
| 02:31:13 | LiF1 | yeah i don't know how to do that either.. i'm not really an ipod user.. |
| 02:31:18 | andrewbeveridge | hold play |
| 02:31:23 | LiF1 | :) thanks |
| 02:31:48 | andrewbeveridge | nor was I until I found rockbox - today :) |
| 02:32:06 | LiF1 | someone gave me an ipod a year ago and i kept using my rio |
| 02:32:27 | LiF1 | i found rockbox today and that made me a lot more interested... |
| 02:33:29 | andrewbeveridge | the thought of being forced to use a database for track info, of not being able to simply copy-and-paste music in any file structure I liked, always put me off iPods of any kind... |
| 02:34:09 | LiF1 | yea. i have a smartphone with microsd... i usually use that for music.. but the battery life sucks as a music player |
| 02:35:38 | LiF1 | the rio i have isn't much better really... the sd card doesn't support FAT so you have to use their crummy app / proprietary cable etc to copy music onto it.. |
| 02:35:45 | LiF1 | but atleast it uses a AA battery |
| 02:36:26 | LiF1 | my company gave me that one tho.. i don't buy things like that usually.. |
| 02:36:50 | Llorean | Guys, this channel isn't really for discussion the shortcomings of original firmwares. |
| 02:37:01 | andrewbeveridge | never heard of rio, but i tend to stick with my old creative zen because it uses AAA betteries - meaning i can use my own rechargables or buy batteries whenever, etc. |
| 02:37:02 | LiF1 | yeah sorry. thanks for the reminder. |
| 02:37:12 | andrewbeveridge | okies sorr |
| 02:37:14 | andrewbeveridge | *y |
| 02:37:54 | LiF1 | can i play muci while it's connected in hard drive mode? |
| 02:38:18 | Llorean | LiF1: you cannot access the HD and play music at the same time. |
| 02:39:40 | LiF1 | am I correct in understanding that the only way to switch is to physically unplug the cable? |
| 02:39:54 | Llorean | At the moment, yes. |
| 02:40:33 | Llorean | One key reason there's no easy way to switch between the two is that on the iPod we don't actually have USB support. You're in Apple software when you can transfer files. |
| 02:41:24 | andrewbeveridge | hence the slow transfer speeds? |
| 02:41:43 | LiF1 | it's slow? |
| 02:42:00 | andrewbeveridge | moreso than a normal USB2 mass storage device |
| 02:42:06 | Llorean | Some iPods experience slow transfer speeds in the Apple "Disk Mode" application (not the same as the normal Apple firmware disk mode) |
| 02:42:40 | LiF1 | mine doesn't seem slow... |
| 02:43:10 | andrewbeveridge | I'm just referring to my experience of file transfer from PC to iPod, I've never used disk mode as far as i know. |
| 02:43:11 | Llorean | *Somee* |
| 02:43:32 | Llorean | andrewbeveridge: Remember, iPods use a different sort of drive than most UMS devices. |
| 02:43:39 | Llorean | Few use a 1.8" HD |
| 02:43:46 | andrewbeveridge | true... |
| 02:44:02 | andrewbeveridge | i suppose i'm used to my creative 1gb which uses flash memory |
| 02:44:10 | andrewbeveridge | which is obviously much faster |
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| 02:44:53 | LiF1 | transfer rates on flash usually isn't faster than a fast HD. (just no seek time) |
| 02:45:01 | LiF1 | ipods don't have a fast HD tho |
| 02:45:15 | JdGordon|zzz | wpyh: hey, good work on the maze patch... ill try commitint it today |
| 02:45:19 | | Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 02:45:51 | LiF1 | are you working on usb software for the ipod that will replace the apple software? |
| 02:46:22 | | Quit perrikwp (Client Quit) |
| 02:46:45 | Llorean | It's coming along, but it's not reliable enough to be enabled yet. |
| 02:47:39 | LiF1 | cool. that's gotta be a challenge. |
| 02:48:21 | Llorean | We've got a rather bright guy who's been doing a lot of the work on it. |
| 02:48:39 | Llorean | It's actually *usable* it's just not reliable enough that it'll be usable for everyone. It's still somewhat dependent on the USB port you plug it into, and we don't like that. |
| 02:51:36 | saratoga | Llorean: i found that message, its a standard error that occurs if the packet length and decoded data length don't match, so its probably due to the decoder getting stuck and giving up |
| 02:52:06 | Llorean | saratoga: Except the output sounds more or less like it's supposed to, whereas when Rockbox decodes it, it doesn't. |
| 02:52:14 | Llorean | So ffmpeg recovers from the error better than we do? |
| 02:52:28 | saratoga | possibly |
| 02:52:42 | saratoga | or there could be serveral errors in play here and ffmpeg has less |
| 02:54:33 | LiF1 | I followed the link in the FAQ to get to the database page and there's nothing there ... Is the link bad or is there really nothing there? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/Database |
| 02:54:48 | LiF1 | I wanted to know if I can add individual songs to the DB or if i have to do a full rebuild |
| 02:55:24 | Llorean | Someone typed it wrong, it's http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DataBase |
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| 02:56:29 | LiF1 | ah |
| 02:56:34 | LiF1 | thanks |
| 02:57:17 | wpyh | JdGordon: thanks :) |
| 02:58:29 | wpyh | does anyone here know what the "Mode Sense" bytes in dmesg mean? |
| 02:58:45 | wpyh | I googled but I only got the command, not the returned data |
| 02:59:12 | * | wpyh is asking because RB's usb stack returns a different set of bytes than the OF's disk mode |
| 03:00 |
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| 03:07:09 | andrewbeveridge | wpyh: "Mode Sense" - is that quoted from the dmesg output? |
| 03:07:23 | wpyh | yes, from the dmesg |
| 03:07:40 | andrewbeveridge | i can't find that string anywhere in the unix-utils source |
| 03:07:54 | wpyh | well, I think that's emitted by the kernel |
| 03:08:07 | andrewbeveridge | oh |
| 03:08:20 | andrewbeveridge | no idea personally, sorry :) |
| 03:09:31 | wpyh | :) |
| 03:09:56 | andrewbeveridge | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCSI_Mode_Sense_Command |
| 03:10:03 | andrewbeveridge | that help? :) |
| 03:11:09 | wpyh | uh, I actually got that page yesterday, from google −− as I said, I only found the command :) |
| 03:11:20 | wpyh | not the returned data, which is what I want to know.. |
| 03:11:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:11:49 | andrewbeveridge | ah, so what do you want to know? how to interpret the data? |
| 03:13:04 | wpyh | yes, I want to know what the 4 bytes after Mode Sense: mean |
| 03:18:56 | LiF1 | is ipod battery life any better than these original posts I'm seeing saying it's about half of orig FW ? |
| 03:19:04 | LiF1 | any better _now_ i mean |
| 03:19:33 | scorche | it is |
| 03:20:25 | LiF1 | is it close to orig fw ? |
| 03:20:48 | Llorean | Under some very specific conditions it might even pass it |
| 03:21:08 | LiF1 | i saw the debug screen that shows the cpu speed fluctuating.. is that for power saving? |
| 03:21:21 | Llorean | Yes |
| 03:22:00 | LiF1 | i must just need a new battery |
| 03:22:22 | andrewbeveridge | wpyh: just out of interest, cos you've got me curious now, could you see what 'sg_modes -a' returns? |
| 03:23:00 | andrewbeveridge | wpyh: see if there is any correlation between that and the bytes shown in dmesg |
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| 03:25:12 | wpyh | here: http://pastebin.ca/1071354 |
| 03:25:23 | wpyh | it's weird |
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| 03:28:25 | rushfan | Does Rockbox run on the 160gb iPod Classic? |
| 03:28:29 | JdGordon | no |
| 03:28:40 | rushfan | Ok. Any of the iPod Classics? |
| 03:28:44 | safetydan | nope |
| 03:28:57 | rushfan | cause my ipod video is starting to croak but I dont want to get a new ipod which isnt supported by rockbox :( |
| 03:29:03 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Regarding the guy who mentioned a number of music files in the tracker, maybe he meant the stats plugin? |
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| 03:31:31 | BHSPitLappy | rushfan, then don't get an ipod |
| 03:31:42 | rushfan | but what else supports rockbox right now> |
| 03:31:51 | BHSPitLappy | rushfan, have a look at rockbox.org |
| 03:31:54 | Llorean | rushfan: All the players listed on the front page. |
| 03:32:00 | rushfan | I am looking. And I see nothing else |
| 03:32:14 | rushfan | nothing thats "new" |
| 03:32:16 | BHSPitLappy | rushfan, I must say I'm not impressed with your literacy |
| 03:32:25 | Llorean | rushfan: Ah, well you didn't mention new at the time |
| 03:32:33 | Llorean | rushfan: What's wrong with a used or refurbished player if it's in decent condition? |
| 03:32:44 | BHSPitLappy | generally rockbox ports don't tend to happen right at a player's release |
| 03:32:49 | rushfan | Llorean: because my 3 year best buy warranty is only good for stuff best buy sells |
| 03:32:55 | | Quit HellDragon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:33:16 | Llorean | rushfan: Well, even if there were new ones Rockbox supported, they probably wouldn't be sold at Best Buy |
| 03:33:27 | Llorean | BB has a habit of only offering a very limited selection of the absolute most mainstream players |
| 03:33:51 | BHSPitLappy | don't forget badly-made gimmick mp3 players |
| 03:34:25 | rushfan | well, thnere are very few other decent HDD players on the market anymore |
| 03:34:41 | Llorean | Yes |
| 03:34:46 | rushfan | Apple has basically completely monopolized that market. The iAudio x5 was like the last holdout |
| 03:34:51 | Llorean | Nah |
| 03:34:55 | Llorean | The Gigabeats were around longer than it. |
| 03:35:06 | rushfan | hmm I was never a Gigabeat fan :| |
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| 03:35:14 | rushfan | of course that was before they could run Rockbox |
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| 04:09:43 | wpyh | RB's usb stack is slow :( |
| 04:10:05 | Llorean | On what player? |
| 04:10:23 | MarcGuay | Llorean: If that's the case (stats plugin thing), then I'm getting the same number reported there as in the playlist. Will review the task. |
| 04:10:37 | Llorean | MarcGuay: It's only a guess, as I can't imagine what else he meant |
| 04:11:25 | MarcGuay | Yeah I looked over the Rockbox Info screen 100 times. He refers to it as "system info" which sounds to me like it's a windows thing, though... |
| 04:11:33 | Llorean | Yeah |
| 04:11:35 | Llorean | Maybe that |
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| 04:17:29 | MarcGuay | Llorean: Do you understand what he means by this "then when running that playlist the random duplication of a any random track happens when playing or skipping through the playlist in the WPS screen."? |
| 04:17:58 | MarcGuay | I can't figure out if there's simply a duplicate of one of the songs or something more.. |
| 04:18:18 | Llorean | MarcGuay: My best guess is it's just the "playlist out of order" bug fixed shortly after DevCon |
| 04:18:47 | MarcGuay | I'm going to close it. I'm getting the right number of tracks. |
| 04:18:58 | Llorean | Ok |
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| 04:20:51 | Davide-NYC | I have not been keeping up with all of the latest developments with Rockbox in the last several weeks. Was there any talk of separating the display code from the audio code in the WRS recently? |
| 04:21:44 | Llorean | There's not a lot of focus on new features at the moment. |
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| 04:22:24 | MarcGuay | Davide-NYC: It's been pretty quiet on that front. There have been a few blind users experiencing frustration with the lack of voicing, though. |
| 04:23:44 | Davide-NYC | That makes sense. There are other issues as well. User fonts are a real biggie. |
| 04:24:11 | Llorean | Actually, right now most of the focus should (hopefully) be on bug fixes, not functionality |
| 04:24:21 | Llorean | Systems should not be reworked at the moment |
| 04:25:53 | Davide-NYC | Is there talk of a 3.0 release?! |
| 04:25:58 | MarcGuay | I'm looking forward to themable recording and radio screens. |
| 04:25:59 | Llorean | Yeah |
| 04:26:04 | Llorean | That's kinda the big thing that came out of DevCon... |
| 04:26:13 | Davide-NYC | I guess that'll be 3.1 :( |
| 04:26:24 | Llorean | It'll be "whenever someone actually does it" |
| 04:26:50 | wpyh | Llorean: it's a 5.5g iPod Video |
| 04:27:10 | Llorean | wpyh: And you enabled both the USB stack and High Speed? |
| 04:27:16 | wpyh | yes |
| 04:27:26 | Llorean | And what were the data rates you got, and what did you get with the OF? |
| 04:27:54 | wpyh | with the OF I got around 11 MB/s IIRC |
| 04:28:12 | wpyh | right now I get only 4.5MB/s read, and if I unplug then plug it in again, I on'y get ~950KB/s |
| 04:28:30 | Davide-NYC | Llorean: is any part of the ReleaseAnnouncement30 page relevant? Last changes were made in 2006! |
| 04:28:47 | Llorean | Davide-NYC: No, I haven't even looked at that page |
| 04:28:48 | wpyh | and now I'm seeing some "reset high speed USB..." errors on dmesg |
| 04:28:52 | Llorean | Davide-NYC: See ReleaseTodo |
| 04:29:04 | Llorean | wpyh: Then you're seeing the reset bug. |
| 04:29:25 | wpyh | ok |
| 04:30:07 | wpyh | for the slow speed after reconnecting, there's a strange phenomenon: the device is recognized as full speed at first, then upgraded to high speed |
| 04:30:13 | wpyh | I saw that in the dmesg |
| 04:31:05 | MarcGuay | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7541 <- Is the answer to this to remove the menu option and entry in the manual until it's actually implemented? |
| 04:31:20 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Yes. |
| 04:31:26 | wpyh | Llorean: is the bug in FS #8562? |
| 04:31:41 | Llorean | MarcGuay: In fact, Recording on iPods should just be disabled for release. I'm not sure about H10s |
| 04:32:03 | Llorean | wpyh: You'll notice mention of device resets there, yes... |
| 04:32:06 | MarcGuay | Llorean: What's the problem on the ipods? |
| 04:32:19 | wpyh | ok |
| 04:32:24 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Hardware initialization. After recording, you can't listen to music without rebooting. |
| 04:32:34 | | Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 04:32:36 | MarcGuay | That's no good. |
| 04:32:43 | Llorean | Not for a release build, no |
| 04:35:10 | MarcGuay | It seems the line-in pins are known for the H10 data cable. Does anyone here have one and care to verify that the line-in through dock doesn't work? |
| 04:35:28 | Llorean | There aren't many with H10s. |
| 04:35:37 | Llorean | It wasn't the most popular of our targets. |
| 04:37:07 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:37:35 | MarcGuay | The OP commented on June 8th of this year so I assume it's still valid. |
| 04:38:03 | Llorean | It seems likely |
| 04:39:12 | MarcGuay | If I remove the SRC_CAP_LINEIN from the config is that enough to take it out of the menu or does it need to be done manually? |
| 04:40:06 | * | MarcGuay looks it up for himself |
| 04:40:44 | Davide-NYC | I sent a faulty H10 to MikeS a while back. It booted to RB but would reset after a short while. Maybe he fixed the unit and can test the line in? |
| 04:41:01 | Davide-NYC | I believe it was a bad battery (micro-cap) |
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| 05:07:19 | MarcGuay | On the ipods that can record through the headphone jack, is it considered Line-In? |
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| 05:26:01 | ulmolav | *bleh* cOX <−− emoticon read from right to left, guy throwing up |
| 05:26:27 | Llorean | Please, stay on the topic of rockbox in here. |
| 05:26:31 | ulmolav | so, I ran dd if=/dev/zero of=my sansa e250 |
| 05:27:03 | JdGordon | and now you cant get into recovery mode... |
| 05:27:12 | ulmolav | well, I've been doing a bit |
| 05:28:32 | ulmolav | Let's see, I've looked at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Unbrick And I've looked at a lot of other stuff. I got to the recovery, uh, thing. I copied .mi4 and .rom and touched sansa.fmt. But it boots up to the blue ring of death still |
| 05:30:25 | JdGordon | you need to do the manufacturer mode recovery |
| 05:30:27 | ulmolav | (And my fingers are all ache from soft-resetting it all the time) |
| 05:32:09 | MarcGuay | Where does the manual pull the info for \opt{radio} from? I don't see that as a UseOption in the platform files... |
| 05:32:11 | ulmolav | All right, recovery mode is happening. |
| 05:33:05 | ulmolav | And the hidden partition is blanked again. So I'm uncertain, which files should I put on it? |
| 05:37:48 | ulmolav | (You peeps are taking forever, I'm going to put .mi4 .rom and .fmt on and remove it 'safely' this time) |
| 05:42:56 | JdGordon | please accept this gift certificate for 300 free downloads from rockbox.org for causing such grief |
| 05:43:29 | ulmolav | :D |
| 05:43:44 | | Quit [CBR]Unspoken|w (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 05:43:46 | ulmolav | well, that was a rather fast format. :/ |
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| 05:44:06 | ulmolav | yayo, I got the original firmware back |
| 05:46:01 | MarcGuay | Llorean: Nothing serious. Targets seem to have input capacity defined rather haphazardly and the manuals don't bother much with opting for the Mic and Line-In inputs. |
| 05:47:29 | MarcGuay | I'm just going to fix http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7541 and then add the rest as a ManualToDo. |
| 05:49:27 | ulmolav | Having :e200 in the device address was rather clever. |
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| 06:00 |
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| 06:05:54 | MarcGuay | Anyone have an ipod handy? |
| 06:06:19 | MarcGuay | And a microphone? :) |
| 06:06:22 | BenniBoya | yea |
| 06:06:25 | BenniBoya | yea |
| 06:07:04 | MarcGuay | Can you tell me what recording source the headphone jack uses? (if the ipod is 3rd gen +) |
| 06:07:45 | BenniBoya | uuum,.. its a nano 1st gen and i guta reload rockbox... |
| 06:07:53 | BenniBoya | like install it again quickly |
| 06:08:06 | Galois | I never got recording to work ... but the web site claims it works |
| 06:08:28 | MarcGuay | Galois: Apple or Rockbox? |
| 06:08:35 | MarcGuay | BenniBoya: Take your time. |
| 06:08:51 | BenniBoya | so i shud reinstall rockbox? |
| 06:08:58 | Galois | rockbox |
| 06:09:17 | MarcGuay | BenniBoya: If you want to. Maybe Galois can give me a hand. |
| 06:09:33 | MarcGuay | Galois: What model do you have and what have you tried? |
| 06:09:37 | BenniBoya | ok |
| 06:09:39 | Galois | I use an ipod nano |
| 06:09:52 | Galois | I had one theory that you need one of those recording devices that attaches to the connector |
| 06:09:58 | Galois | but I tried that and it didn't work |
| 06:10:14 | MarcGuay | Galois: Crap, you're right, you need a dock for the nano. |
| 06:10:24 | Galois | note: I have an fm transmitter that attaches to the connector (not the headphone jack), and that device does work in rockbox |
| 06:10:41 | MarcGuay | The 3rd/4th/Color/Photo are the ones that are supposed to record through the headphone jack. |
| 06:11:08 | Galois | also note: I haven't tried recording recently. It might work now. |
| 06:11:30 | BenniBoya | hey, i reinstalled rockbox (like a backup of it from a while ago) and loaded my custom firmwire (just changed the boot order) and then when i opened itunes it said it cudnt sync (error -54 or 56 or something around 50) and all my music apeared as other |
| 06:12:34 | Llorean | BenniBoya: First: When you're connected to the computer, it's through Apple code so it has nothing to do with Rockbox |
| 06:12:44 | purpleposeidon | hooray! rockbox is lively! |
| 06:12:48 | Llorean | Second: If you're using an old build, and a customized bootloader, it's really not something we provide support for. |
| 06:13:13 | BenniBoya | ok ill test a new biuld then and the default bootlaoder first |
| 06:13:17 | MarcGuay | Llorean: Your idea to have a place to get questions answered about specific targets is a good idea. :) |
| 06:13:32 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Huh? |
| 06:13:34 | MarcGuay | I might resort to the forums to gather info.. |
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| 06:14:04 | MarcGuay | You mentionned a while ago that it would be handy to have a wiki page or something where you could inquire about target specific bugs/questions/etc. |
| 06:14:35 | Llorean | Hm |
| 06:15:57 | BenniBoya | oh yea, is there any work being done for rockbox on 2nd gen nano's (ust wondering, not asking) |
| 06:16:04 | Llorean | No. |
| 06:16:09 | BenniBoya | ok didnt think so |
| 06:19:53 | MarcGuay | Grr. Like the ipod 4g has Mic and Line-In input defined, but I have no idea if this is true. The best info I can find is the buyer's guide which says it has recording. Are there even docks for the 4g? I don't want to give up but I think I will. |
| 06:20:26 | Llorean | There are line-in pins in the dock connector, and I'm pretty sure they're connected for the 4G at least |
| 06:20:32 | Llorean | People make custom cables for 'em, IIRC |
| 06:20:57 | MarcGuay | So does that mean that the headphone jack is the Mic input? |
| 06:21:02 | Llorean | Anyway, "Mic" should be the headphone jack, and "Line In" is the dock input |
| 06:21:14 | Llorean | Which is poor nomenclature but I don't think anyone's bothered since the feature works so poorly right now anyway |
| 06:21:31 | MarcGuay | Merci! |
| 06:21:43 | BenniBoya | hey if i wana install the bootloader, it shudnt matter wether it is in apple firmware or diskmode right? |
| 06:22:11 | | Quit midgey_ () |
| 06:22:13 | Llorean | BenniBoya: no, it shouldn't. |
| 06:22:16 | BenniBoya | ok |
| 06:23:23 | MarcGuay | Llorean: So, IYO, it's safe to remove the Mic input from the Nano and Video builds? |
| 06:24:03 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Yes |
| 06:24:08 | Llorean | In my limited opinion. |
| 06:24:16 | MarcGuay | The dock pins haven't changed for the ipods over generations, correct? |
| 06:24:30 | Llorean | They might've from 3G to 4G |
| 06:24:33 | Llorean | I'm not wholly sure. |
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| 06:29:56 | BenniBoya | >a while ago i changed the rockbox bootlaoder a bit so rockbox would load when the play button was held and ipod firmware would open by default, but now when my ipod first turns on untill the backlight is turned of and back on the backlight is really dim |
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| 06:35:23 | scorche|sh | BenniBoya: it sounds like you are asking for support for an unsupported bootloader, no? |
| 06:35:55 | BenniBoya | not asking for support, just curious |
| 06:36:42 | BenniBoya | i lost the source code for it anyway when my linux crashed |
| 06:36:57 | scorche|sh | well, we cant really say what you did... |
| 06:37:11 | scorche|sh | see if it does it with the official bootloader |
| 06:37:29 | Llorean | Or without any Rockbox stuff installed |
| 06:38:32 | BenniBoya | it only does it with my customised version... and i only changed that last bit with the boot order stuff in it... its weird |
| 06:39:26 | MarcGuay | The buyer's guide says the ipod 3g can record but it's not enabled in the config. Any idea which one is wrong? |
| 06:39:46 | | Quit jhulst_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 06:39:53 | Llorean | MarcGuay: It may be that we don't have the necessary groundwork for recording on it yet. |
| 06:40:15 | BenniBoya | 'that rockbox utlity looks good |
| 06:40:30 | MarcGuay | Isn't the buyer's guide supposed to list rockbox features, unlike the device chart which lists the hardware potential? |
| 06:40:49 | Llorean | I dunno |
| 06:40:59 | MarcGuay | Seems like it... |
| 06:41:01 | Llorean | Rockbox features are rather fluid. |
| 06:41:21 | Llorean | I would expect it to list the hardware potential, possibly with some sort of notation for when it doesn't work yet |
| 06:50:38 | BenniBoya | ... |
| 06:51:26 | scorche|sh | ...yes/ |
| 06:51:52 | | Quit tessarakt2 ("Client exiting") |
| 06:59:19 | BenniBoya | hey what was that program on the rockbox site that converted the ipod database tags? |
| 07:00 |
| 07:01:23 | | Quit AndyIL (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 07:02:20 | cool_walking_ | BenniBoya, http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ConvertiTunesDBtoTagCache |
| 07:02:30 | BenniBoya | thanks |
| 07:02:49 | cool_walking_ | linked from wiki/UsefulTools |
| 07:03:17 | BenniBoya | ok ill remember that |
| 07:04:44 | BenniBoya | ... |
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| 07:07:12 | Llorean | BenniBoya: Please, enough with the "..." lines. This channel is logged, so if you don't have something on-topic to say, don't press enter please. |
| 07:07:36 | scorche|sh | TaylorKillian: erm...hi...long time no see... |
| 07:07:39 | | Quit BenniBoya ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1pre/2008062706]") |
| 07:08:00 | TaylorKillian | scorche|sh: hey, how's it going |
| 07:08:18 | | Quit midgey_ () |
| 07:08:36 | scorche|sh | TaylorKillian: alright...more interested in how it is going with you though ;) |
| 07:09:20 | TaylorKillian | honestly, i'm not impressed with my progress :( |
| 07:09:30 | scorche|sh | sadly, we arent either... |
| 07:09:36 | TaylorKillian | I over commited myself this summer |
| 07:10:27 | scorche|sh | i see |
| 07:10:57 | MarcGuay | Anybody have an opinion on this: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7220? Seems like it was added for a specific reason (only special setting for the e200 on the bookmarks screen). |
| 07:11:10 | TaylorKillian | anyways, i don't think i deserve to pass the midterm exam, but I am still am interested in the project, so i'm going to continue to work on it |
| 07:11:36 | scorche|sh | TaylorKillian: i am very glad to hear that |
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| 07:13:22 | scorche|sh | feel free to come in here more often as well...we dont bite...usually =) |
| 07:13:58 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Close it. The record button is NOT reserved as a "turn on backlight" button, nor described as that anywhere, so anyone who uses it as such without thinking is just asking for trouble |
| 07:15:33 | MarcGuay | Grr, it wasn't documented. |
| 07:16:18 | Llorean | huh? |
| 07:16:38 | MarcGuay | I'm tempted to remove it altogether as it's available through the regular means of deleting an entry - through the context menu. (The manual has no reference to REC=delete) |
| 07:17:38 | Llorean | I actually kinda like a quick delete button for that list. |
| 07:17:46 | Llorean | Cleaning it up is a real hassle otherwise. |
| 07:18:00 | MarcGuay | Again, I don't use bookmarks. And you're right, it's pretty ingrained. |
| 07:18:16 | Llorean | It takes three button presses for each entry, vs 1 |
| 07:18:31 | Llorean | I probably clear out my recent bookmarks list once a week, and I've missed the quick delete function on my Gigabeat |
| 07:19:40 | MarcGuay | Llorean: It's the A button apparently. Not sure if I understood you there... |
| 07:20:01 | MarcGuay | I've = I'd? |
| 07:20:21 | Llorean | Ew. |
| 07:20:25 | Llorean | The A button is BAD for it. |
| 07:20:35 | Llorean | "A" should resume playback / return to the WPS from everywhere. |
| 07:20:36 | Llorean | Including there. |
| 07:20:37 | MarcGuay | Llorean: Voluntering? :) |
| 07:20:50 | * | MarcGuay passes the torch |
| 07:21:22 | Llorean | Mark that task due in 3.0, will you? |
| 07:21:32 | Llorean | Maybe I will look at making that screen more consistent. |
| 07:22:25 | MarcGuay | The screenshot here http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansae200/rockbox-buildch5.html#x8-870005.3 is way different from the way it looks currently. It even has bad instructions for the delete keymap. |
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| 07:44:08 | Quazgaa | anyone know of any issues hotplugging the x5l in linux |
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| 07:57:07 | amiconn | MarcGuay: I am wondering about r18028 and r18029 |
| 07:57:40 | MarcGuay | Do tell. |
| 07:57:42 | amiconn | Imo rockbox should have all features the hardware allows |
| 07:58:05 | amiconn | These commits do arbitrary limiting, iiuc that is. |
| 07:58:49 | amiconn | Perhpas 18029 is not, but 18028 is. |
| 07:59:19 | MarcGuay | Did you read the task? Keep in mine I'm new to this. |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:00 | MarcGuay | Maybe I misunderstood the defines. |
| 08:00:22 | MarcGuay | Does the ability get separated from the capacity at a different point? |
| 08:00:50 | amiconn | If line in is available on the H10 dock connector, but recording from it doesn't work, it's a bug that should be fixed, not the feature removed. |
| 08:01:53 | amiconn | r18029 is probably misunderstanding on my side. The Nano and Video cannot do the headphone connector trick? |
| 08:02:15 | MarcGuay | amiconn: According to the buyer's guide, they can only go through the dock. |
| 08:02:40 | Llorean | amiconn: No, they cannot. |
| 08:02:47 | Llorean | It's been confirmed, at least on the nano. |
| 08:02:51 | MarcGuay | And as for removing a feature, if the feature is not currently working, I'm of the mind that it shouldn't be an available option and the manual shouldn't say that it's possible. |
| 08:02:58 | amiconn | Hmm, so the headphone trick is for G4? Ii always thought it's the opposite - but then I only have ipods which cannot record at all |
| 08:03:10 | MarcGuay | I wouldn't no where to begin with implementing it. |
| 08:03:24 | MarcGuay | *know |
| 08:03:27 | MarcGuay | *beer |
| 08:03:52 | amiconn | MarcGuay: As long as we're not releasing, removing non-working features shouldn't be done (unless they're physically unfixable) |
| 08:03:59 | Llorean | MarcGuay: If it's not currently working, it should be available in the current build, but not the release. |
| 08:04:16 | amiconn | Removing a non-working feature severely lowers the chance of it being fixed at all |
| 08:04:45 | amiconn | ...since many people won't even know it *could* be possible, and hence do not test / pester developers etc |
| 08:04:52 | MarcGuay | That seems odd to me. I guess I'm misunderstanding the way "it works". |
| 08:07:33 | MarcGuay | Here's Apple's page for the ipod "voice memo" recording: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303100. |
| 08:09:48 | MarcGuay | PesterBox. |
| 08:10:48 | MarcGuay | So how does that philosophy apply to the "draft" manuals? Do unusable but possible features get documented? |
| 08:11:20 | Llorean | Features that "should be working, but have a bug" should be documented as if they were working. |
| 08:11:33 | Llorean | Basically, recording "should be working" but something isn't done right yet. |
| 08:11:50 | amiconn | MarcGuay: Yeah, so recording through the headphone jack isn't possible on G5 and hence r18029 is correct. r18028 is not, however, since the H10 dock connector does have line in |
| 08:11:50 | MarcGuay | I see. |
| 08:12:10 | * | MarcGuay is starting to get it. |
| 08:12:30 | Llorean | It's kinda a fine distinction in some ways. |
| 08:12:34 | MarcGuay | I'll flip it back. |
| 08:12:39 | amiconn | Perhaps petur could look into this, as he's generally interested in recording and does have a H10 |
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| 08:12:52 | amiconn | It's mainly a problem of getting the connector though |
| 08:13:32 | * | amiconn could also do this if I can get hold of a connector, but he isn't so much into recording |
| 08:14:11 | amiconn | Btw, ipod recording is rather buggy in general afaik |
| 08:14:56 | amiconn | ...in that it breaks playback until reboot. I don't understand why, as on H10 it doesn't cause that problem, and they're all PP |
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| 08:17:42 | Llorean | amiconn: IIRC I think jhmikes (or someone) had a clue to that. |
| 08:18:12 | amiconn | Unfortunately he seems to have vanished... |
| 08:18:38 | MarcGuay | Reverted and task reopened. |
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| 08:34:54 | MarcGuay | amiconn: Looks like Mike S can be summoned by action on certain tasks. :) |
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| 09:45:12 | Llorean | petur: I think he was looking for verification that the list was right. |
| 09:45:42 | petur | don't know if 'incomplete' is also 'not right' |
| 09:45:48 | Llorean | As in, whether those targets had the necessary hardware for those features. |
| 09:45:56 | petur | ah |
| 09:45:58 | | Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 09:46:00 | Llorean | But I'm not sure. |
| 09:46:29 | petur | I'll edit it to make it more clear which ones I'm sure of |
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| 09:48:53 | petur | there... |
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| 11:23:16 | pixelma | umm... does someone intend to fix the red for the Nano and Video? |
| 11:28:06 | petur | MarcGuay should.... |
| 11:28:25 | JdGordon | he's a bit asleep :p |
| 11:28:37 | pixelma | I guess he's sleeping though... |
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| 11:30:15 | JdGordon | I like his initiative and all.. but I |
| 11:30:18 | JdGordon | arg |
| 11:30:32 | JdGordon | but i'm not so sure he should be commiting patches yet... |
| 11:31:08 | petur | well you certainly shoud check the result of your commit before going to sleep.... |
| 11:31:11 | JdGordon | i mean.. he got access for the manual yeah? |
| 11:32:08 | pondlife | Hopefully this will teach him to check... ;) |
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| 11:32:18 | pixelma | no, the c100 port I believe |
| 11:33:09 | pondlife | pixelma: If I include your patches (so the manual builds) would it be ok to commit the H300/M5/X5 RTC support - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7814 ? |
| 11:33:26 | yeahx | what cool stuff could the 3G nano do if it got hacked do you think? |
| 11:33:31 | pondlife | I don't totally understand RaeNye's comment though.. |
| 11:33:58 | pixelma | pondlife: I'm not sure for the X5 and M5 because the bootloader needs to be prepared for it |
| 11:34:00 | pondlife | yeahx: Thst's off topic hear, but I suspect it could make nice sandwiches |
| 11:34:23 | yeahx | yeah I was going to ask in ipodlinux but its dead |
| 11:34:35 | pondlife | pixelma: OK, well I might leave it then.. don't want to just commit part of the job really. |
| 11:34:50 | yeahx | I wish my 1st gen nano hadnt locked up right when I was doing stuff with rockbox |
| 11:35:14 | pondlife | Locked up? It's unlikely to be bricked, unless you squashed it or something... |
| 11:35:23 | yeahx | I went 2nd gen after that and then won a 3G at work and was sad that it didnt get hacked yet |
| 11:35:27 | bertrik | Can anyone familiar with rbutil/sansapatcher look at a patch I just made? |
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| 11:35:48 | bertrik | The patch is at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9002 |
| 11:35:54 | yeahx | well I went to lock it based on someones suggestion, and no matter what I did it would not unlock |
| 11:37:35 | pixelma | pondlife: currently (with the latest released bootloader) the Iaudios will turn on but switch off immediately after that again because they only check for a button press and not whether it was an alarm that caused the boot |
| 11:37:55 | yeahx | I was going to use my best buy replacement plan to use it to get a new ipod, but by the time I was going to get around to that it was gone |
| 11:38:25 | yeahx | but yeah, someone told me to set it to lock while starting rockbox and that was it |
| 11:38:35 | yeahx | Im sure it was a hardware thing |
| 11:40:34 | yeahx | sorry for hi-jacking, I'll shut up now :) |
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| 13:03:35 | Tuplanolla | hello |
| 13:03:42 | markun | hi |
| 13:03:50 | Tuplanolla | rbutilqt finnish translation is almost done :) |
| 13:04:49 | markun | great |
| 13:05:11 | markun | right in time for rockbox 3.0 :) |
| 13:05:17 | Tuplanolla | :) |
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| 13:54:45 | Tuplanolla | Generated 457 translation(s) (457 finished and 0 unfinished) |
| 13:55:02 | | Part pondlife |
| 13:56:18 | Tuplanolla | the guide says to "post the *.ts gile to the tracker", how is that done? |
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| 14:01:09 | GodEater | is there a task for the finnish translation already ? |
| 14:02:03 | GodEater | not for rbutil it would seem |
| 14:02:13 | GodEater | so just open a new task in flyspray, and attach your .ts file to it |
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| 14:11:53 | Tuplanolla | ah, like this: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9192 ? |
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| 14:12:17 | GodEater | Tuplanolla: that looks perfect ;) |
| 14:12:43 | GodEater | thank you very much for doing it |
| 14:15:12 | Tuplanolla | yeah, thanks :) |
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| 15:09:39 | RealNitro | Say I want to buy a nice, flash-based mp3/ogg player that runs rockbox, in europe |
| 15:09:44 | RealNitro | What should I buy? |
| 15:10:42 | Tuplanolla | sansa e2x0 would be nice if there wasn't v2 |
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| 15:11:01 | LambdaCalculus37 | But there's always eBay, if you're looking for a Sansa v1. |
| 15:11:17 | | Join blithe [0] (n=blithe@stiletto.djblithe.com) |
| 15:11:19 | RealNitro | hmm, k |
| 15:11:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | Just ask the seller to tell you what firmware version the Sansa is running. If it's 01.XX.XX, you're in the clear. If it's 03.XX.XX, move on... it's a v2. |
| 15:11:43 | RealNitro | k |
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| 15:26:02 | mcuelenaere | \o/ http://uploadimage.org/images/78hhrn4a6wnu80dnttc0.jpg \o/ |
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| 15:26:43 | ender` | heh, what's that bloody thing? :) |
| 15:26:49 | mcuelenaere | Onda VX747 |
| 15:27:04 | ender` | (though i'd say dusty, not bloody :) |
| 15:27:12 | mcuelenaere | :) |
| 15:29:55 | * | LambdaCalculus37 gives mcuelenaere a beer |
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| 15:31:27 | mcuelenaere | still it's all rather weird, I can only display text on the lower part (like only the last 10 pixels) |
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| 15:35:45 | bertrik | what happens if you try anywhere else on the screen? |
| 15:39:10 | * | mcuelenaere thinks he (partly) found the displaying bug |
| 15:39:32 | mcuelenaere | if I write the data to the framebuffer 3x and do lcd_update() 3x it does the intented behaviour |
| 15:39:47 | JdGordon | mcuelenaere: nice work :) |
| 15:41:42 | mcuelenaere | http://uploadimage.org/images/hiifz3ld6kd1r6v43iq.jpg |
| 15:41:57 | bertrik | \o/ nice |
| 15:41:58 | Tuplanolla | :) |
| 15:43:27 | LambdaCalculus37 | Even nicer! |
| 15:43:46 | JdGordon | mcuelenaere: really getting tempted to get me one of them now... too bad im useless when it comes to hardware coding |
| 15:43:56 | mcuelenaere | yeey I got a stable text drawing routine :) :) |
| 15:44:25 | mcuelenaere | JdGordon: there's GPL source code provided for the HW ;) |
| 15:45:08 | JdGordon | oh well thats cheating then isnt it :D |
| 15:45:53 | mcuelenaere | it's the only documentation available :) |
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| 15:51:50 | Nico_P | mcuelenaere: congratulations? how did you do it? |
| 15:52:15 | Nico_P | err the first '?' was supposed to be a '!' of course |
| 15:53:21 | mcuelenaere | thanks all :) I got printf() almost working! (well some implementation of it) |
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| 16:00 |
| 16:02:01 | agaffney | is it normal for linux fdisk to bitch about the CHS and LBA values not matching for the partitions on the sansa e2xx? |
| 16:02:25 | agaffney | and is it safe to just reformat the first partition and restore the contents? |
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| 16:38:53 | preglow | if someone wants to look at the study mode rename patch before it goes in, now is the time: http://www.pvv.org/~thomj/rockbox/study_mode_rename.diff |
| 16:44:17 | JdGordon | gets my vote |
| 16:44:30 | mcuelenaere | ok rudimentary touch screen handling & button handling works |
| 16:44:41 | mcuelenaere | anyone against me committing this? |
| 16:45:42 | | Quit Horscht ("IRC is just multiplayer notepad") |
| 16:46:03 | preglow | JdGordon: you can see no funkiness with settings/menus in there? i don't get that stuff too well |
| 16:46:32 | preglow | primarily due to never using it :> |
| 16:47:18 | JdGordon | not in my cursory glance... Ill have a more proper look though |
| 16:47:51 | * | JdGordon hates having to have those formatters at the top of setting_list.c |
| 16:48:31 | preglow | JdGordon: me too |
| 16:48:39 | preglow | JdGordon: but i can't be bothered to code a general formatter now |
| 16:48:54 | JdGordon | ok, settings stuff looks fine |
| 16:48:57 | preglow | or at all, for that sake |
| 16:49:02 | preglow | JdGordon: excellent, in it goes, then |
| 16:49:16 | preglow | if i can remember my svn password....... |
| 16:49:27 | JdGordon | im not saying it was bad to put there.. im saying that was a bad decision on my part to begin with :/ |
| 16:50:04 | preglow | JdGordon: yeah, but one that be redone, no? we do need formatting functions, but one that doesn't need two function pointers per item would be nice |
| 16:50:13 | preglow | one that can be redone <- |
| 16:50:26 | JdGordon | no reason it cant be fixed |
| 16:50:37 | JdGordon | just needs time and inclination :/ |
| 16:50:41 | preglow | heh |
| 16:58:16 | pixelma | MarcGuay: re. your earlier question about the usable options in the manual - the platform files are not the only source now anymore, there is also the features.tex which gets parsed from the features.txt used for the lang file generation. I added that to http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LatexGuidelines#Include_Exclude_sections during the DevCon weekend |
| 16:58:45 | preglow | i don't need to bump any settings stuff for this, no? the old study mode settings'll just be ignoreed? |
| 16:59:51 | JdGordon | not settings.. maybe the plugin api though |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:03 | MarcGuay | pixelma: Ah, very nice, thank you. |
| 17:00:29 | JdGordon | yep.. you changed the global_settings struct... min plugin api gets bumped |
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| 17:04:20 | MarcGuay | pixelma: If I wanted to add an item to that list, it seems I need to bump a version of the langs/voices. How would I go about doing that? |
| 17:04:45 | | Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 17:06:48 | pixelma | sorry, I don't understand the question |
| 17:07:28 | MarcGuay | Just from reading the header on that file, it sounds like something needs to be changed in the langs and voice files if you modify it. |
| 17:07:48 | preglow | hmm |
| 17:08:01 | preglow | that dir/playlist limit set bug isn't fixed yet, is it? |
| 17:10:26 | | Quit midgey_ () |
| 17:11:00 | pixelma | MarcGuay: are you asking about the mic recording related language strings, how to exclude them etc.? |
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| 17:13:04 | MarcGuay | I ws just wondering if I could create a #ifdef HAS_MIC_REC.. Ah crap, that would require a rework of the coinfig define business, never mind. |
| 17:14:10 | MarcGuay | Trying to find a nice way to treat targets that have line-in but not mic-in. Might not be worth the trouble after all.. |
| 17:15:50 | std | mcuelenaere: are you told about GPLed code provided by the HW manufacturer? 0_o |
| 17:16:45 | Nico_P | mcuelenaere: better to set svn:eol-style to native too |
| 17:17:23 | mcuelenaere | Nico_P: ok, just a "svn propset svn:eol-style [FILE]" |
| 17:17:24 | mcuelenaere | ?* |
| 17:17:31 | mcuelenaere | std: yes |
| 17:17:43 | Nico_P | svn propsert svn:eol-style native FILE |
| 17:17:49 | mcuelenaere | k |
| 17:17:51 | Nico_P | propset |
| 17:18:15 | Nico_P | it will make the files CRLF under win and LF under *nix |
| 17:20:35 | mcuelenaere | std: you are talking about Ingenic, right? |
| 17:26:58 | preglow | Bagder: around? |
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| 17:29:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | preglow: Remember what we had discussed yesterday about difficulties compiling on Mac OS X? |
| 17:29:54 | | Quit K4rP4D ("Leaving") |
| 17:31:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | preglow: I found this...http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17404.0 with a link to FS #9006. |
| 17:32:16 | preglow | yeah, that was the flyspray entry i talked about |
| 17:33:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | preglow: Think that it should be committed? |
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| 17:42:23 | bertrik | domonoky: you know a lot about rbutil, right? |
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| 17:43:02 | * | domonoky wrote about half of it, so i know a lot of it :-) |
| 17:43:19 | preglow | what does that tool do that requires the elf header? |
| 17:43:48 | agaffney | is it normal for linux fdisk to bitch about the CHS and LBA values not matching for the partitions on the sansa e2xx? |
| 17:43:59 | agaffney | and is it safe to just reformat the first partition and restore the contents? |
| 17:45:06 | | Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 17:45:11 | bertrik | domonoky: can you have a look at this patch: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9002 ? It's a minor fix to sansapatcher but it may also affect rbutil, so I ask to be sure. |
| 17:46:53 | domonoky | bertrik: should not really affect rbutil, so should be fine... |
| 17:47:25 | bertrik | ok thanks |
| 17:47:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | preglow: elf.h isn't present in Mac OS X, according to FS #9006. I see that tools/creative.c needs it. |
| 17:48:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | FS #9006 is elf.h, but still requires a tiny tweak to tools/creative.c for it to completely work. |
| 17:50:23 | preglow | LambdaCalculus37: i'm just wondering what it needs elf.h for, it's a weird dependency for most programs |
| 17:51:01 | bertrik | agaffney: I have no idea, but I think in general it's better to avoid formatting an audio player unless absolutely necessary |
| 17:51:43 | | Quit DaCapn () |
| 17:52:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | preglow: I'm wondering, too. But it looks like the Creative builds need it for some reason or another; maybe ask mcuelenaere when he comes back? |
| 17:52:50 | PaulJam | hmm, rockbox should have a way to rate multiple files at once. the current method is really inconvenient. :/ |
| 17:53:36 | preglow | LambdaCalculus37: it looks like that file uses very little of elf.h. the proper fix would be to include just those defines in creative.c itself |
| 17:54:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | That's what FS #9006 does. |
| 17:54:53 | preglow | but if it writes elf files, it doesn't sound very platform independent anyway, we should ask maurus if it makes sense to compile it on os x at all |
| 17:55:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | preglow: Righty right, then. |
| 17:59:55 | agaffney | bertrik: I could swear I read somewhere that it's sometimes necessary on the sansa, because people start getting weird characters in their file/directory names |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:05 | agaffney | and I've been having my sansa freeze up on my randonly |
| 18:01:15 | Lear | Freeze when? Like, when doing something in particular (e.g., starting playback)? |
| 18:01:32 | agaffney | usually in the middle of a song |
| 18:01:38 | agaffney | it was fine for about a month |
| 18:01:44 | GodEater | agaffney: that doesn't mean you need to format |
| 18:01:44 | agaffney | and then started doing it every few songs |
| 18:02:00 | agaffney | well, there are some...interesting...things that come up with fsck.vfat |
| 18:02:09 | agaffney | and the partition layout is...screwy |
| 18:03:16 | agaffney | fdisk and fsck.vfat really don't like this device |
| 18:03:18 | GodEater | is fsck refusing to fix the "interesting" things it's reporting ? |
| 18:03:52 | agaffney | http://rafb.net/p/wWREwd98.html |
| 18:03:57 | GodEater | anywhere you read that formatting is "necessary" on the sansa was either not here, or written by a complete moron |
| 18:04:09 | agaffney | well, I can't find what I read previously |
| 18:04:17 | | Quit std () |
| 18:04:20 | agaffney | so I can't verify what it said |
| 18:04:25 | GodEater | so fsck is reporting that the two FATS are different |
| 18:04:41 | agaffney | no, not the FATs |
| 18:04:42 | GodEater | which means the FS is corrupt, which means it needs fixing. Choosing option (3) will just leave it broken. |
| 18:04:44 | agaffney | the boot sectors |
| 18:05:01 | agaffney | the FAT isn't in the boot sector |
| 18:05:07 | GodEater | true |
| 18:05:11 | agaffney | Got 3833344 bytes instead of 3898644 at 3916288 |
| 18:05:13 | GodEater | still, it needs fixing |
| 18:05:18 | agaffney | that's the final output from fsck.vfat |
| 18:05:32 | GodEater | are you always cleanly unmounting your device before unplugging it from USB ? |
| 18:05:46 | agaffney | yes |
| 18:06:06 | agaffney | however, I haven't even written anything to it in over a month |
| 18:06:12 | GodEater | do you use Rockbox's file commands at all ? (i.e. cut / paste or delete) ? |
| 18:06:12 | agaffney | and this problem only showed up about a week ago |
| 18:06:17 | agaffney | no |
| 18:06:39 | | Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-098-026-069-229.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 18:06:41 | GodEater | so have you tried asking fsck to actually fix this ? |
| 18:06:57 | agaffney | well, which option do I choose at that question? |
| 18:07:16 | GodEater | well if you're worried, why not dd the entire partition somewhere |
| 18:07:18 | agaffney | I assume the worst that could happen is I have to put rockbox and my music back on there |
| 18:07:21 | GodEater | and then you can try both answers |
| 18:07:23 | agaffney | true |
| 18:07:33 | agaffney | but that just makes sense :P |
| 18:07:35 | GodEater | I'd go with option 1 though |
| 18:08:08 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 18:08:14 | * | agaffney gives is a try |
| 18:08:42 | agaffney | s/is/it/ |
| 18:12:15 | | Join herrwaldo [0] (n=waldo@ip-81-11-223-112.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 18:12:18 | agaffney | hmm |
| 18:12:29 | agaffney | it's still complaining about the bootsector not matching on the second run |
| 18:12:39 | agaffney | after copying the original to the backup |
| 18:13:43 | agaffney | still didn't do anything on the second pass |
| 18:13:49 | | Join TaylorKillian [0] (i=826cb980@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-137f087cf41eabb0) |
| 18:14:23 | | Quit TaylorKillian (Client Quit) |
| 18:15:13 | | Quit GodEater ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 18:15:17 | | Quit petur ("work->home") |
| 18:18:44 | | Nick Naked is now known as Hadaka (i=naked@naked.iki.fi) |
| 18:19:43 | | Quit Galaxor ("Leaving") |
| 18:20:18 | | Join Mathiasdm [0] (n=Mathias@vpnd005.ugent.be) |
| 18:20:30 | agaffney | GodEater_: even more weird...chkdsk on XP doesn't find any problem with the device |
| 18:20:39 | agaffney | but the MUSIC folder doesn't show up when browsing |
| 18:20:47 | agaffney | it shows up on my linux machine |
| 18:20:48 | LambdaCalculus37 | The MUSIC folder is hidden. |
| 18:20:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | Make Windows show hidden files. |
| 18:21:03 | agaffney | oddly, that folder doesn't show up in the rockbox file browser, either |
| 18:21:04 | agaffney | ah, ok |
| 18:21:09 | agaffney | not so odd, then :P |
| 18:22:24 | | Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) |
| 18:23:52 | agaffney | fsck.vfat is still bitching about the boot sectors not matching |
| 18:28:35 | | Quit MarcGuay ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 2.0.0.15/2008062306]") |
| 18:29:19 | PaulJam | what exactly is the meaning of this "Prereq button code" in the keymaps? does that mean that when this was the previous button reading then the action gets ignored? |
| 18:32:15 | PaulJam | i was wondering, because i noticed on H300 the buttoncombination PLAY + UP/DOWN to bring up the pitch screen only works when pressing the UP or DOWN button very quickly after pressing down PLAY. If PLAY is held too long before pressing the other button then the pitchscreen doesn't come up. i don't think this is intended. |
| 18:33:07 | amiconn | It is intended. |
| 18:33:20 | amiconn | Long Play obviously has another meaning |
| 18:33:42 | PaulJam | what does long play do on H300? |
| 18:34:05 | | Join Nibbl [0] (n=Nibbler@HSI-KBW-091-089-240-203.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 18:35:16 | amiconn | I don't know |
| 18:35:36 | amiconn | But since there is that prerequisite code, I presume there must be something |
| 18:42:00 | PaulJam | hmm, i can't find anything. long play seems to only be used in the radio screen. the manual doesn't mention anything either. |
| 19:00 |
| 19:02:35 | amiconn | Hmm, if there is nothing on long Play, it makes no sense to have the pitchscreen on a combo. Just put it on long Play ... |
| 19:05:15 | PaulJam | i would prefer if long play stayed unused, because it is used for various other combos. |
| 19:06:32 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
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| 19:09:36 | | Join Lynx_ [0] (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de) |
| 19:12:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:12:48 | | Join Nibbl [0] (n=Nibbler@HSI-KBW-091-089-240-203.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 19:13:00 | | Quit Acksaw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:13:44 | | Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 19:14:30 | | Quit Tuplanolla ("mooi ->") |
| 19:15:15 | | Quit neddy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:17:09 | | Join neddy [0] (n=john@nat/sun/x-d562610131799e4e) |
| 19:18:03 | | Quit Nibbl ("Leaving") |
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| 19:18:53 | | Join PaulJam_ [0] (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3148.gwdg.de) |
| 19:22:28 | | Join estel_ [0] (n=estel@ppp-88-217-73-150.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:22:36 | estel_ | hi guys |
| 19:23:23 | estel_ | i'm using rockbox and tried to play a mpeg video, but now it hangs |
| 19:23:31 | | Join PaulJam__ [0] (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3148.gwdg.de) |
| 19:23:47 | estel_ | i'm using an sansa san disk e200 |
| 19:23:52 | bluebrother | so ... you want to reset the player? |
| 19:24:00 | | Quit Lambduh ("Leaving") |
| 19:24:04 | estel_ | the aequivalent to a reboot |
| 19:24:07 | bluebrother | hold power for quite a while |
| 19:24:17 | estel_ | i tried it for at least 10 seconds |
| 19:24:31 | bluebrother | try again ;-) |
| 19:24:40 | bluebrother | it does work, but it sometimes needs quite a while |
| 19:24:43 | estel_ | ah, tnaks |
| 19:24:51 | | Quit daurn ("Cyas") |
| 19:24:53 | estel_ | must have slipped of |
| 19:25:12 | bluebrother | happens. The buttons on the e200 are somewhat hard to press |
| 19:25:38 | estel_ | but it's quite cheap as a mp3 player |
| 19:25:47 | | Quit PaulJam (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:25:47 | estel_ | with rockbox as firmware it's really cool |
| 19:26:04 | | Nick PaulJam__ is now known as PaulJam (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3148.gwdg.de) |
| 19:26:05 | bluebrother | without Rockbox I wouldn't have bought one ;-) |
| 19:27:50 | | Join Lambduh [0] (n=Lambda@64.6.88.58) |
| 19:28:26 | estel_ | hmm, the video file keeps crashing on my desktop box, too |
| 19:28:48 | scorche|sh | sesit takes 15 seconds actually ;) |
| 19:29:15 | scorche|sh | if it crashes on your desktop as well, that should suggest something is wrong with the file itself |
| 19:29:34 | scorche|sh | Bagder: ping |
| 19:29:39 | estel_ | codecs ;-) |
| 19:30:04 | estel_ | well, i've tried to convert a (bit buggy) divx video to mpeg |
| 19:30:18 | estel_ | the mpeg now crashes some of my video players |
| 19:34:08 | | Join PaulJam__ [0] (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3148.gwdg.de) |
| 19:34:12 | | Quit PaulJam (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:35:10 | scorche|sh | NOTE to all mentors: even if you do not have a student, you still have a survey to fill out |
| 19:35:35 | | Nick PaulJam__ is now known as PaulJam (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3148.gwdg.de) |
| 19:35:41 | scorche|sh | Bagder: LinusN *needs* to get his review in *now* |
| 19:36:21 | LambdaCalculus37 | estel_: What did you use to convert the video? |
| 19:36:50 | estel_ | mencoder |
| 19:36:55 | | Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:37:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | estel_: Windows? Mac OS X? Linux? |
| 19:37:15 | estel_ | linux |
| 19:37:20 | | Quit Lambduh ("Leaving") |
| 19:37:25 | estel_ | mencoder works on win32? |
| 19:38:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | IIRC there's a Win32 version as well. |
| 19:39:00 | estel_ | any suggestions how to convert it? |
| 19:40:39 | | Join Lambduh [0] (n=Lambda@64.6.88.58) |
| 19:41:21 | | Quit PaulJam_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:42:11 | PaulJam | estel_: have you read the PluginMpegplayer page in the wiki? it has some suggestions on how to transcode for rockbox. |
| 19:43:05 | estel_ | thanks |
| 19:45:56 | | Join toed [0] (i=toad@proxima.lp0.eu) |
| 19:48:21 | toed | is there a way to use the 'myriad' font on rockbox? i own a copy in postscript OTF, can i use this with rockbox? |
| 19:48:21 | | Quit Xerion (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:48:54 | bertrik | amiconn: you mean that the bus to the display on the c200 is physically only 8-bit wide? |
| 19:53:21 | | Nick borges|afk is now known as boges (n=bruges@brln-4d0c30aa.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:53:24 | | Nick boges is now known as borges (n=bruges@brln-4d0c30aa.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:54:37 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) |
| 19:56:41 | amiconn | Imo a media player should never crash on a bad file |
| 19:57:08 | estel_ | it shouldn't, but many do it |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:02 | wpyh | hi |
| 20:00:28 | wpyh | why are some plugins enclosed (mostly) inside an "#ifdef HAVE_LCD_BITMAP"? |
| 20:01:07 | Bagder | scorche: I've poked him |
| 20:01:20 | scorche|sh | Bagder: can he get it in within the hour/ |
| 20:01:33 | Bagder | I guess, but I'm not sure |
| 20:01:53 | scorche|sh | ok |
| 20:02:04 | * | scorche|sh schedules another poke in 30 minutes |
| 20:03:12 | | Join fml [0] (n=4fd3db30@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f58f31004e6f24f1) |
| 20:03:36 | * | fml wonders where Nico_P disappeared yesterday |
| 20:04:27 | scorche|sh | Bagder: does the web app also show you unassigned mentors who havent submitted theirs?....although theirs arent completely necessary and we can write off with an excuse |
| 20:05:00 | Bagder | no it doesn't |
| 20:05:41 | Nico_P | fml: I had things to do |
| 20:05:43 | | Quit gevaerts (Nick collision from services.) |
| 20:05:55 | | Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) |
| 20:06:02 | fml | Nico_P: I guessed that |
| 20:06:12 | fml | no problem |
| 20:08:28 | pixelma | wpyh: I have been told that this is an old remnant of the time before the SOURCES file existed |
| 20:09:05 | pixelma | and there is one target which has a charcell display (the Archos Player/Studio) |
| 20:12:05 | GodEater_ | wait - unassigned mentors have to do a midterm too ? |
| 20:12:10 | wpyh | pixelma: thanks |
| 20:12:27 | wpyh | does that mean we should clean up the mess and use SOURCES instead? |
| 20:15:58 | | Quit petur ("switching") |
| 20:16:06 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 20:16:10 | * | bertrik implemented LCD inverse mode for the c200, if that's useful for anything anyway |
| 20:17:29 | amiconn | Imo inverse mode isn't very useful on colour targets |
| 20:19:48 | LinuxMafia | hi |
| 20:19:49 | amiconn | I know it's implemented for some of them. Does anyone ever use it? |
| 20:20:07 | LinuxMafia | i just bought a philps mp3/video player |
| 20:20:43 | bertrik | I never used it, but then again I think I still use only 20% of rockbox possibilities. IMO, it's more of a technical gimmick than a genuinely useful feature |
| 20:21:05 | | Join Nibbl [0] (n=Nibbler@HSI-KBW-091-089-240-203.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 20:21:30 | LinuxMafia | yeah it does not have philps at all in rockbox.org |
| 20:21:49 | scorche|sh | LinuxMafia: all working targets are listed on the front page |
| 20:22:11 | LinuxMafia | scorche|sh, yeah i see there is no philips there |
| 20:22:37 | scorche|sh | right... |
| 20:22:42 | | Join tessarakt [0] (n=jens@e180078035.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:23:40 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23CD1B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:24:05 | bertrik | amiconn: when searching for HAVE_LCD_INVERT in the config-<target>.h files, it looks like 21 out of 27 targets implement it |
| 20:24:30 | | Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) |
| 20:26:49 | DerPapst | bagder: ping |
| 20:27:24 | * | wpyh wonders if someone is interested in optimizing bubbles |
| 20:27:30 | wpyh | it's too slow |
| 20:27:44 | scorche|sh | boost the cpu |
| 20:27:52 | wpyh | that's not optimizing it :p |
| 20:28:43 | scorche|sh | either way, i doubt it is going to be a very high priority for anyone...you could always have a go at it ;) |
| 20:29:18 | wpyh | pixelma: I see that bubbles.c is already inside SOURCES, surrounded by "#ifdef HAVE_LCD_BITMAP". in that case I think we should remove the ifdef inside bubbles.c itself |
| 20:29:25 | wpyh | scorche: well.. let's see... |
| 20:29:44 | wpyh | do you devs prefer an extra newline at the end of a source file? |
| 20:29:57 | DerPapst | gcc preferes it :P |
| 20:30:33 | pixelma | bertrik: how many of those are colour targets? |
| 20:30:34 | wpyh | uh, I mean like ....}\n\n at the end of a file |
| 20:30:39 | | Quit estel_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:30:58 | pixelma | bertrik: I mean have a colour screen... ;) |
| 20:31:01 | wpyh | the first \n will be displayed in vi, the second one hidden by vi |
| 20:31:44 | bertrik | pixelma: I don't know, I'll have to look that up |
| 20:32:32 | linuxstb | wpyh: I'm not sure if bubbles needs optimising as such, but it at least needs some code to make it attempt to play at the same speed on all devices... |
| 20:33:11 | wpyh | linuxstb: surely it couldn't be too hard to make it equally jerky on all targets? ;) |
| 20:33:26 | wpyh | seriously, do you mean the timer is different on different targets? |
| 20:33:35 | pixelma | it should make an attempt to play at the same "speed" when boosted or unboosted |
| 20:33:40 | linuxstb | There's a timer? |
| 20:33:49 | wpyh | yeah, the timer before the ceiling drops |
| 20:34:21 | wpyh | pixelma: um... maybe we can do it after we optimize the code? |
| 20:35:08 | linuxstb | wpyh: Do you own more than 1 Rockbox device? |
| 20:35:19 | wpyh | I do have a Nano and a Video |
| 20:35:35 | linuxstb | Have you compared Bubbles? |
| 20:35:41 | wpyh | no... |
| 20:35:55 | wpyh | what should I look for? |
| 20:35:57 | pixelma | wpyh: about the ifdef - I don't think it is very important but if you work on the plugin anyways it could be removed (my opinion) |
| 20:36:34 | wpyh | pixelma: ok, and it doesn't have an effect anyway, with the SOURCES file |
| 20:37:19 | wpyh | linuxstb: I do notice that bubbles on the video is very jerky |
| 20:38:04 | scorche|sh | boost the cpu... |
| 20:38:13 | bertrik | pixelma: if I counted correctly, 4 out of 9 color targets can invert |
| 20:38:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | wpyh: That's to be expected, I guess. The iPod video does have a larger screen to draw, and like scorche|sh says, boot the CPU. |
| 20:38:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | s/boot/boost |
| 20:38:47 | wpyh | let's see |
| 20:41:24 | wpyh | it's very fast |
| 20:41:42 | wpyh | but if I play an mp3 while playing, then it sometimes get jerky |
| 20:41:59 | * | wpyh wonders why his english is so broken today |
| 20:42:14 | * | LambdaCalculus37 clicks the Dyslexia Ray off again... who keeps turning it on? |
| 20:43:07 | wpyh | I'm hoping we can optimize the code |
| 20:43:15 | wpyh | then fix the speed problem |
| 20:43:23 | wpyh | maybe we can do both at the same time :) |
| 20:43:43 | scorche|sh | wpyh: i really doubt it will be done unless you do it yourself |
| 20:43:53 | bertrik | you'll have to know which part of the code has the biggest impact on speed |
| 20:44:16 | wpyh | scorche: I was hoping someone addicted to bubbles would do it, but well... |
| 20:44:23 | wpyh | bertrik: I guess I'll just guess... |
| 20:44:43 | | Quit ompaul (Client Quit) |
| 20:48:02 | | Join culture [0] (n=none@79.97.22.57) |
| 20:48:12 | amiconn | bertrik: On some of them we won't be able to implement it (e.g. on ipod Video) due to lack of lcd controller docs |
| 20:48:16 | | Quit midgey () |
| 20:50:00 | | Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.245.152) |
| 20:50:15 | Strife89 | May I ask what became of Invadrox? |
| 20:50:55 | Strife89 | I noticed it on http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MajorChanges |
| 20:51:04 | Strife89 | 2007-01-31: Invadrox, a Space Invaders clone. |
| 20:52:01 | | Join merbanan [0] (n=banan@83.233.242.107) |
| 20:52:23 | bertrik | amiconn: on those targets we can simply keep HAVE_LCD_INVERT undefined |
| 20:52:52 | bertrik | How about I implement LCD invert for c200, but keep it disabled for now? |
| 20:53:11 | amiconn | Yes of course. The point I am wondering about is whether it makes sense to have lcd inversion on colour targets |
| 20:53:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | Strife89: It's still in Rockbox. |
| 20:53:57 | amiconn | If it does, it should be implemented on all targets where we can do it (without extra effort, i.e. only if the lcd controller has a setting for it) |
| 20:54:05 | Strife89 | Oh.... I never saw it in the manual or on any target sim..... |
| 20:54:06 | | Quit DerPapst (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:54:09 | amiconn | If it doesn't, it should be removed for all colour targets |
| 20:54:14 | | Quit Acksaw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:54:30 | pixelma | Strife89: it does not have a port to small lcd (min is 160x128 if I remember correctly) |
| 20:54:43 | pixelma | *lcds |
| 20:54:52 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: No, but he's rights... I don't see it listed in the manuals. |
| 20:55:09 | * | LambdaCalculus37 will take care of that |
| 20:55:14 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23CD1B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:55:38 | fml | amiconn: I'd remove it. It only means more code and more menu entries and doesn't effectively provide a new functionality. |
| 20:55:39 | bertrik | the little guy with the pitch fork on my left shoulder says "implement, it's cool!", the little guy on my right shoulder says "nah, it's a silly gimmick" :P |
| 20:56:22 | amiconn | On monochrome it's somewhat useful. Less so on greyscale, and even less on colour |
| 20:56:24 | fml | It's only a feature for the sake of it (and because the HW would make it possible to implement) |
| 20:56:51 | bertrik | fml, exactly |
| 20:57:04 | Strife89 | Even on color targets, it would be useful for text reading (IMHO). :) |
| 20:57:07 | bertrik | (for colour targets) |
| 20:58:26 | | Join tucoz [0] (n=martin@rockbox/staff/tucoz) |
| 20:58:29 | tucoz | Hi |
| 20:58:47 | wpyh | does anyone know how bubbles_bubbles.h is generated? |
| 20:58:55 | wpyh | uh, bubbles_bubble.h? |
| 20:59:14 | tucoz | I wonder what you think about chapter 5.3 (recent bookmarks) in the manual. Should that really be there? |
| 20:59:24 | tucoz | It says ": This entry is not shown in the Main Menu when the option is off and the option is off by default. " |
| 20:59:30 | fml | bertrik: but you're right: it's cool! :-) And it also would be a doc for the lcd controller. |
| 20:59:39 | | Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 20:59:57 | bertrik | fml, there's a datasheet for the controller... there's where I got the idea :) |
| 20:59:59 | | Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@c-71-205-31-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:11 | DerPapst | mey LinusN |
| 21:00:15 | DerPapst | *hey :P |
| 21:00:20 | LinusN | hey ho |
| 21:00:25 | * | LinusN is on vacation |
| 21:00:36 | pixelma | tucoz: I'd rather want it at least enabled by default and would even prefer it to be static even though I don't use bookmarks outside of testing purposes |
| 21:00:50 | scorche|sh | LinusN: how is the mid-terms going? ;) |
| 21:00:51 | DerPapst | LinusN: ah.. then you're probably not able to make a commit to wWW ;) |
| 21:01:09 | tucoz | pixelma: i see. do you think that will happen? |
| 21:01:18 | | Join midgey_ [0] (n=tjross@c-71-205-31-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 21:01:18 | | Quit midgey (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:01:20 | LinusN | scorche|sh: so, so, but there is hope methinks |
| 21:01:44 | scorche|sh | well, you were failing him, yes? |
| 21:02:04 | scorche|sh | he came in here last night or so saying that he would certainly expect that |
| 21:02:23 | linuxstb | wpyh: I'm guessing it's generated from a bitmap - the appropriate bubbles_bubbles.bmp in apps/plugins/bitmaps/native/ |
| 21:02:34 | | Quit neddy (Connection timed out) |
| 21:02:37 | pixelma | tucoz: the former yes, the latter... I don't know |
| 21:02:50 | | Quit borges (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:03:00 | tucoz | pixelma: anyways, i've been updating screenshots for the manual lately. i guess i could update that as well. it's just so friggin boring to do that ;) |
| 21:03:37 | pixelma | linuxstb, wpyh: or from apps/plugins/bitmaps/mono |
| 21:03:44 | | Join Vorador [0] (n=tomas@84.240.35.19) |
| 21:03:55 | wpyh | ok, I found it inside apps/plugins/bitmaps/mono |
| 21:04:00 | * | wpyh finds it weird |
| 21:04:17 | pixelma | tucoz: that would probably be the reason why no one did that yet ;) |
| 21:04:19 | wpyh | it may be because I'm new to RB though |
| 21:04:34 | | Join ap0 [0] (i=kvirc@nfb68-1-88-169-81-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:04:45 | tucoz | which reminds me. there is a context-menu entry missing from chapter 4.1.2. Context Menu. Namely "set as backdrop" or something like that |
| 21:04:56 | linuxstb | wpyh: What's weird? |
| 21:05:12 | pixelma | wpyh: I think it's because bubbles_bubble is the outline of the bubble, it is in "mono" because it should use the mono bitmap drawing functions |
| 21:05:25 | tucoz | pixelma: i know. hopefully cabbie2 will still |
| 21:05:47 | tucoz | pixelma: be the standard theme for the 3.0 release :) |
| 21:07:05 | wpyh | linuxstb: it's not straightforward −− why not just use some array? we don't expect the bubbles to change anyway :p |
| 21:07:14 | wpyh | pixelma: I'll take a look |
| 21:07:59 | amiconn | wpyh: It is an array, but it's generated at build time from a bmp |
| 21:08:15 | wpyh | ah, there seems to be a broken bubble: 112x64x1 |
| 21:08:43 | amiconn | Try using your array method with all the various resolutions and colour depths... it'd quickly become an utter mess |
| 21:08:55 | * | wpyh thinks amiconn has a point |
| 21:08:57 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:09:24 | pixelma | wpyh: why broken bubble? |
| 21:09:31 | wpyh | it's not symmetric |
| 21:09:45 | amiconn | No it's not, and for a reason. |
| 21:09:49 | amiconn | It's not broken |
| 21:09:55 | wpyh | ok... |
| 21:09:57 | amiconn | The archos lcd has non-square pixels |
| 21:10:08 | wpyh | oh |
| 21:10:12 | | Join a-journey-in-the [0] (n=blaH@52-234.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 21:10:13 | pixelma | I know (I drew it) - it is on purpose to get as much of a bubble as it could be on the small and weird screen |
| 21:10:17 | wpyh | I mean, it's not mirror-symmetric |
| 21:10:20 | pixelma | I tried a lot |
| 21:10:26 | wpyh | oh ok.. |
| 21:10:40 | wpyh | :) |
| 21:10:40 | a-journey-in-the | hi there... |
| 21:10:49 | a-journey-in-the | wow thats a lot of people |
| 21:11:31 | | Join Acksaw [0] (n=omgwtfbb@cpc2-stok5-0-0-cust754.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:11:33 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC") |
| 21:12:06 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:15:24 | | Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p508A77EB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:17:09 | a-journey-in-the | hey guys, i've got a question... |
| 21:17:47 | | Quit ap0 ("Bye.") |
| 21:17:52 | tucoz | shoot |
| 21:18:03 | a-journey-in-the | i've got this philips gogear hdd6320 |
| 21:18:22 | | Quit merbanan ("Leaving") |
| 21:18:42 | a-journey-in-the | it seems to me it is fairly similar to that other gogear that's going to be supported |
| 21:18:45 | a-journey-in-the | hopefully |
| 21:18:52 | a-journey-in-the | do you know anything about it? |
| 21:19:16 | | Join neddy [0] (n=john@nat/sun/x-c26b78c74c8deea4) |
| 21:19:44 | scorche|sh | a-journey-in-the: what did you wish to know?...the only discussion about that target that should be going on in here is talk about working towards a rockbox port |
| 21:20:37 | a-journey-in-the | yes, what i want to know is whether i'll be able to use rockbox with that player... |
| 21:20:51 | scorche|sh | you cant atm |
| 21:21:06 | a-journey-in-the | i know that |
| 21:21:24 | a-journey-in-the | but there will be a port to the philips gogear sa9200 |
| 21:21:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | One is in progress. |
| 21:21:33 | scorche|sh | there might be |
| 21:21:37 | a-journey-in-the | ok |
| 21:21:48 | scorche|sh | it is in progress...that doesnt guarantee a port |
| 21:22:06 | a-journey-in-the | and i wondered whether it will be possible to use that same port with my player too |
| 21:22:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | I don't think you would be able to. |
| 21:22:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | The HDD6300 series are a little different internally. |
| 21:22:55 | a-journey-in-the | hmm... too bad... |
| 21:23:12 | a-journey-in-the | yeah, that's what i wondered about ;) |
| 21:23:34 | | Join hannesd [0] (n=light@p5B1639CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:23:50 | a-journey-in-the | because i installed rockbox on my old olympus m:robe |
| 21:23:54 | a-journey-in-the | and i love it |
| 21:24:10 | scorche|sh | no you didnt |
| 21:24:21 | | Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) |
| 21:24:50 | LambdaCalculus37 | You do know that the Olympus m:robe 100 port was only available since March of this year, right? |
| 21:25:08 | mcuelenaere | preglow, LambdaCalculus37: I implemented elf->Creative binary conversion because I thought it could optimize binary size, but apparantly it didn't have the effect I wanted it to have |
| 21:25:29 | a-journey-in-the | no i didn't know that so far |
| 21:25:36 | mcuelenaere | there's even this side-effect which makes the binary sometimes about 1900 bytes bigger (as can be seen in the delta table) |
| 21:25:48 | | Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 21:26:01 | mcuelenaere | so there's (for some reason) some quirkiness with it, so it can either get optimized or removed |
| 21:26:26 | LambdaCalculus37 | mcuelenaere: Can you have a look at FS #9006? The elf implementation is interfering with the build process on Mac platforms. |
| 21:26:37 | Strife89 | I've been looking at the Invadrox code. |
| 21:26:49 | a-journey-in-the | hmm kay, so what's wrong with the m:robe port? |
| 21:26:55 | mcuelenaere | LambdaCalculus37: yes I saw that, I don't know what's the best solution for that |
| 21:27:05 | mcuelenaere | why exactly isn't elf.h available on Mac OS X? |
| 21:27:30 | Strife89 | .... And the Brickmania code. |
| 21:27:31 | LambdaCalculus37 | a-journey-in-the: Well, for one, there's no m:robe 500 port. And like I said, the m:robe 100 was only a supported target since March of this year. |
| 21:27:53 | LambdaCalculus37 | mcuelenaere: Beats me. This is my first serious dive into Mac development. |
| 21:27:57 | a-journey-in-the | yeah, so? i've got the 100 version |
| 21:28:08 | a-journey-in-the | installed it toda |
| 21:28:09 | a-journey-in-the | y |
| 21:28:33 | mcuelenaere | LambdaCalculus37: but it does compile when the header is available? so this means there's a lib for it on Mac? |
| 21:28:36 | scorche|sh | ah...sorry...it sounded like you had it a while back |
| 21:28:41 | mcuelenaere | s/compile/link/ |
| 21:28:41 | a-journey-in-the | ah ok |
| 21:28:52 | Strife89 | I mentioned Brickmania to someone around December and they enabled c200 support for it pretty quickly. :) Obviously it didn't have its graphics fixed for the c200 before then. |
| 21:29:07 | a-journey-in-the | yeah, i've got the player in 2003 or something like that |
| 21:29:24 | a-journey-in-the | but i found out about rockbox today and installed it... |
| 21:29:49 | a-journey-in-the | and the thing is i really hate the philips firmware... |
| 21:29:50 | a-journey-in-the | ;) |
| 21:30:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | a-journey-in-the: Well, at least you have one target for now. Be patient and let people finish the GoGear ports, or help us out with them. |
| 21:30:39 | a-journey-in-the | well, how can i help? |
| 21:30:43 | LambdaCalculus37 | mcuelenaere: No, it craps out when it tries to compile anything. |
| 21:31:20 | mcuelenaere | LambdaCalculus37: but doesn't the solution in FS #9006 works? |
| 21:32:50 | mcuelenaere | LambdaCalculus37 (or any other Mac OS X user/developer): do you have a libelf.h file somewhere? |
| 21:32:59 | | Join m0f0x [0] (n=m0f0x@189-47-21-136.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:33:04 | | Quit GodEater_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:33:34 | | Join PaulJam_ [0] (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3096.gwdg.de) |
| 21:34:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | mcuelenaere: I haven't tried FS #9006 yet. I will tonight. |
| 21:35:15 | k4y | mcuelenaere: did you sort out the lcd stuff on the onda? |
| 21:35:46 | mcuelenaere | k4y: with a workaround |
| 21:35:56 | k4y | yeah? |
| 21:36:06 | mcuelenaere | so it's not completely done, but I can get some text on it |
| 21:36:59 | | Quit midgey_ () |
| 21:38:15 | a-journey-in-the | LambdaCalculus37: how can i help? ;) |
| 21:38:15 | Strife89 | a-journey-in-the: All sorts of ways, but the best way involves providing as much technical data on your DAP as possible and/or helping to actually code for it. |
| 21:38:30 | a-journey-in-the | hmm |
| 21:38:46 | a-journey-in-the | i could try to get some info, yes... |
| 21:38:53 | LambdaCalculus37 | Or even testing work-in-progress code, and reporting bugs. |
| 21:39:24 | a-journey-in-the | kk... |
| 21:39:28 | Strife89 | a-journey-in-the: Yes. Or heck, even work on device-specific manual/Wiki pages |
| 21:40:11 | Strife89 | Dang, I'm a slow typer today........ |
| 21:40:19 | a-journey-in-the | ah yeah, i saw some missing paragraphs in the wiki page about m:robe |
| 21:41:04 | Strife89 | Fill 'em in, if you want (or tell me what's missing :) ) |
| 21:41:12 | | Join hannesd_ [0] (n=light@p5B162A48.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:42:45 | Strife89 | a-journey-in-the: What's missing? |
| 21:42:50 | | Part LinusN |
| 21:43:04 | a-journey-in-the | ahm hold on ;) |
| 21:44:24 | Strife89 | a-journey-in-the: Just so you know, I don't own an m:robe, so I know nothing about it, really. |
| 21:44:25 | a-journey-in-the | oh, no, it's not in the wiki |
| 21:44:41 | a-journey-in-the | but in the man pages |
| 21:44:44 | a-journey-in-the | http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-mrobe100/rockbox-build.html |
| 21:45:38 | Strife89 | Oh, the manual..... I don't have the power to mess with the manual, unfortunately. :( |
| 21:45:39 | a-journey-in-the | for example the sound settings page is not complete |
| 21:45:53 | a-journey-in-the | ok... bad luck ^^ |
| 21:46:04 | Strife89 | I think that's incomplete for EVERY target. |
| 21:46:20 | a-journey-in-the | ok |
| 21:46:28 | a-journey-in-the | that's nothing special then ^^ |
| 21:46:46 | a-journey-in-the | but still, the essential things are there... |
| 21:46:56 | Strife89 | Anyway, the manual's in the realm of the SVN (A.K.A. the Rockbox source code). |
| 21:47:14 | | Quit PaulJam (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 21:47:17 | a-journey-in-the | ah ok |
| 21:47:29 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:47:38 | a-journey-in-the | what language is the code written in? |
| 21:47:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | C. |
| 21:47:48 | Strife89 | The Wiki is a separate, more accessible entity. |
| 21:48:12 | a-journey-in-the | ok... i've had an introduction to c++... |
| 21:48:19 | mcuelenaere | LambdaCalculus37: I think I've got a solution which works, I'll post it in FS #9006 |
| 21:48:30 | Strife89 | Lambda: Which I promised I'd try to learn, but I have ultimately slacked off. :( |
| 21:49:04 | a-journey-in-the | Strife89: i had to learn it for the university... |
| 21:49:23 | Strife89 | a-journey-in-the: svn.rockbox.org |
| 21:49:34 | a-journey-in-the | but haven't coded anything big in c or c++ |
| 21:49:51 | LambdaCalculus37 | mcuelenaere: Okay, I'll check it out when I get home later. |
| 21:49:53 | Strife89 | a-journey-in-the: I'm starting college in August. |
| 21:49:58 | Strife89 | ;) |
| 21:50:04 | a-journey-in-the | ah cool ^^ |
| 21:50:25 | a-journey-in-the | i'm starting 3rd semester now... |
| 21:50:40 | a-journey-in-the | of my computer science studies |
| 21:51:31 | PaulJam_ | please use #rockbox-community for social chat. |
| 21:52:12 | Strife89 | PaulJam: Sorry. :( |
| 21:52:12 | Strife89 | Anyway, look at the invadrox.c if you want, journey. It's well commented. |
| 21:52:33 | a-journey-in-the | ok cool |
| 21:55:24 | | Quit hannesd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:55:25 | | Nick hannesd_ is now known as hannesd (n=light@p5B162A48.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:55:36 | preglow | mcuelenaere: so, might as well remove the elf stuff then=? |
| 21:58:13 | preglow | mcuelenaere: elf.h isn't available on mac because macs don't use elf |
| 21:58:50 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 21:58:55 | preglow | mcuelenaere: anyway, even if you decide to keep the elf stuff, i'd appreciate it if you remove the elf.h dependency by moving the definitions you need inside creative.c |
| 21:59:17 | mcuelenaere | preglow: seen FS #9006? |
| 22:00 |
| 22:03:35 | preglow | aye |
| 22:04:02 | preglow | but that just seems to bundle another elf.h |
| 22:04:11 | preglow | do you use so much of it that bundling a whole elf.h makes sense? |
| 22:04:12 | mcuelenaere | I mean my comment |
| 22:04:18 | mcuelenaere | patch* |
| 22:04:57 | preglow | oh, need to reload, then |
| 22:05:30 | | Quit Arathis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:06:14 | preglow | you make it sounds unreasonable that mac's dont come with elf.h, it really isn't :) |
| 22:06:34 | mcuelenaere | isn't elf.h part of UNIX? |
| 22:06:36 | preglow | but yeah, that's a much smaller elf.h for sure |
| 22:06:42 | preglow | i don't know |
| 22:06:50 | preglow | but os x is fully unix compliant, i think |
| 22:07:01 | mcuelenaere | yes I know about that |
| 22:07:07 | preglow | sounds weird for it to bundle the header for a file format it doesn't support, though |
| 22:07:13 | mcuelenaere | at least, apple claims so |
| 22:07:28 | mcuelenaere | but they use another file format AFAIK |
| 22:07:36 | preglow | yeah, the mach format |
| 22:07:43 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:08:36 | mcuelenaere | ok then ignore my comment :) |
| 22:09:12 | preglow | but anyway, if the patch works, just commit |
| 22:09:25 | mcuelenaere | k |
| 22:09:30 | | Join anathema [0] (n=none@79.97.22.57) |
| 22:09:39 | mcuelenaere | actually, I haven't tested it on Mac OS X |
| 22:09:42 | mcuelenaere | as I don't have it |
| 22:09:55 | mcuelenaere | (I just commented the elf.h #include out) |
| 22:10:01 | mcuelenaere | but it *should* work |
| 22:10:59 | preglow | i don't have a dev env in os x, so can't test it either |
| 22:11:33 | | Join massiveH [0] (n=massiveH@pool-71-187-1-26.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:12:51 | massiveH | does anyone have input on http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17202.0 |
| 22:13:07 | webmind | hmm, would anyone have any use for archos player parts? |
| 22:13:27 | mcuelenaere | webmind: I think there's a wiki page dedicated for that |
| 22:13:44 | webmind | would you know which? :) |
| 22:14:00 | mcuelenaere | perhaps SpareParts? |
| 22:14:13 | mcuelenaere | yep :) |
| 22:16:47 | webmind | hmm, can't edit wiki without posting my real name with it? |
| 22:17:34 | mcuelenaere | webmind: do you already have a wiki account? |
| 22:17:43 | webmind | don't know to be honest |
| 22:17:49 | webmind | it's been a while |
| 22:18:18 | webmind | doubt it |
| 22:18:19 | mcuelenaere | what's your name? |
| 22:18:28 | | Join GodEater [50] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 22:18:28 | webmind | webmind usually |
| 22:18:38 | webmind | sometimes it's Sebastian |
| 22:18:42 | mcuelenaere | for the Rockbox wiki, you need to provide your real name |
| 22:18:45 | webmind | but I rarely use that |
| 22:18:46 | | Quit Mathiasdm ("Invisible Internet Project: http://www.i2p2.de") |
| 22:18:47 | webmind | yeah |
| 22:18:49 | mcuelenaere | (first and last name) |
| 22:18:53 | webmind | that's what I said |
| 22:19:07 | webmind | I'll think about it :) |
| 22:19:27 | mcuelenaere | you could also send a message to the mailing list? |
| 22:19:33 | webmind | yeah |
| 22:19:36 | webmind | that's an option too |
| 22:19:39 | webmind | but no hurry :) |
| 22:20:40 | | Quit m0f0x () |
| 22:20:57 | | Join m0f0x [0] (n=m0f0x@189-47-21-136.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 22:22:28 | tucoz | preglow: still around? |
| 22:22:46 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 22:23:14 | | Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:23:26 | | Quit culture (Success) |
| 22:23:57 | preglow | tucoz: sure |
| 22:24:32 | tucoz | I think that we should change the first line in this chapter to say something about that the main menu is what you are presented with when you start rockbox. http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-iaudiom5/rockbox-buildch5.html#x8-810005.1 |
| 22:25:01 | tucoz | however, i need a little help with the wording |
| 22:25:14 | | Part Strife89 |
| 22:27:52 | preglow | well, i don't see the need for anything fancy |
| 22:28:08 | | Quit m0f0x ("reconnect") |
| 22:28:22 | stripwax | "The Main Menu is the main screen in rockbox. You will see this first when you start rockbox." |
| 22:28:23 | | Quit davina (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:28:43 | | Join m0f0x [0] (n=m0f0x@189-47-21-136.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 22:28:43 | stripwax | of course, that ignores the fact that the Startup Screen can be changed |
| 22:28:50 | preglow | stripwax: needs to be mentioned, of course |
| 22:28:54 | tucoz | me neither. but i am stuck. i can not remember if we are neutral, or address the reader as you |
| 22:28:54 | | Quit Nibbl ("Leaving") |
| 22:29:13 | stripwax | ok ,"This is the first screen you will see when starting rockbox" |
| 22:29:31 | tucoz | stripwax: oh. i didn't know that. but i think we should write the manual for a vanilla rockbox install |
| 22:29:48 | tucoz | stripwax: sounds great. i'll use that |
| 22:29:52 | preglow | When you first start Rockbox, you will be presented with the Main Menu. The Main Menu allows you to access all other functions in Rockbox. |
| 22:29:52 | tucoz | thanks |
| 22:30:10 | preglow | or what stripwav said, yes |
| 22:30:10 | preglow | it's all good |
| 22:30:16 | preglow | stripwax... |
| 22:30:18 | | Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:30:21 | tucoz | yep. thanks guys |
| 22:30:28 | * | preglow needs a swede |
| 22:31:16 | | Quit Vorador ("Ex-Chat") |
| 22:31:30 | | Quit DerPapst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:31:43 | preglow | oh |
| 22:32:00 | * | preglow finds a bunch of small manual updates on his linux box |
| 22:32:30 | Bagder | preglow: you called sir? |
| 22:33:00 | | Quit desowin ("KVIrc 4.0.0 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/") |
| 22:33:35 | preglow | Bagder: would you be as kind as to msg me my svn password? :> |
| 22:34:35 | | Quit massiveH ("Leaving") |
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| 22:52:01 | preglow | should we use the verb "boot" in the manual? wouldn't a word like "start" or "execute" be more familiar to most people? |
| 22:52:58 | Bagder | amen |
| 22:52:59 | stripwax | "turn on" or "start" gets my vote |
| 22:53:06 | stripwax | execute is not a good word... |
| 22:53:10 | linuxstb | tucoz: Do you think it's worth adding "by default" somewhere in your new sentence? This would be a way to suggest to users they can change that behaviour... |
| 22:53:12 | Bagder | my wife looks at me strangely when I say I boot my computer |
| 22:53:25 | * | linuxstb would think that most people understand "reboot", and hence "boot"... |
| 22:53:36 | Bagder | they don't, they say restart |
| 22:53:54 | linuxstb | OK, ignore me then, I'm stuck in the 1980s ;) |
| 22:53:55 | stripwax | or "turn it off an on again". especially when reboot for ipod can mean menu+select... |
| 22:54:00 | stripwax | ^and |
| 22:54:35 | stripwax | linuxstb - also "by default" is not great. "Although this can be customized" is much better... |
| 22:54:48 | linuxstb | But I'm not against using technical terms in the manual, as long as they are explained. We use the term "bootloader" everywhere (or boot loader....) |
| 22:54:55 | stripwax | nah that's fine |
| 22:55:22 | stripwax | People likely won't think they know what a bootloader is, but they might think they know what reboot means |
| 22:55:47 | * | linuxstb thinks we're probably not the best people to answer these questions |
| 22:56:05 | * | preglow pours himself a double ipa and fondles the manual a bit |
| 22:56:46 | stripwax | Should the rockbox manual be made a bit more 'street'? :) |
| 22:57:10 | bluebrother | write it gangstah style? ;-) |
| 22:58:02 | bluebrother | I think adding an appendix explaining technical terms would be a nice thing ... |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:13 | preglow | i've already started using the terms "bitch", "foo'", "punk" and "nizzle" extensively in the manual |
| 23:00:45 | preglow | and am experimenting on how best to fit "playa" in |
| 23:02:28 | preglow | i'm starting to think we should drop the 80 col rule for manuals. i hate reformatting entire paragraphs just after having inserted a couple of words |
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| 23:05:41 | bluebrother | maybe make it a soft rule −− paragraphs should not exceed 80 columns, but are allowed to unless it gets too excesively? |
| 23:05:43 | preglow | red delta :/ |
| 23:06:07 | preglow | why make it a soft rule? |
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| 23:06:29 | preglow | a rule should only stay as long as it makes sense, and i don't think it makes much sense for text, like the manuakl is |
| 23:06:34 | preglow | for code, i agree it's sensible |
| 23:06:43 | bluebrother | to avoid 200 characters wide lines |
| 23:06:53 | tucoz | and to easier spot changes |
| 23:07:00 | tucoz | in the diffs |
| 23:07:01 | preglow | why are 200 character wide lines bad in this context? |
| 23:07:10 | preglow | editors can easily wrap text |
| 23:07:12 | preglow | but not code |
| 23:07:28 | bluebrother | well, but not all editors cope nicely with indentation. |
| 23:08:05 | MU{lappy} | as a non-developer (for this particular project), my unimportant opinion is that reasonable line-wrapping in editors can be assumed |
| 23:08:14 | preglow | i sure think so |
| 23:08:30 | MU{lappy} | the vast majority of the programming world disagrees w/ me on line lengths and tabstops, though. |
| 23:08:34 | preglow | tucoz: spotting changes in the diff will not be affected much by long lines |
| 23:08:42 | tucoz | if there is a small change in a line, it's hard to spot where it is in the diff, if the line extends to an entire paragraph |
| 23:08:49 | preglow | tucoz: indeed, changes are hard to find when much of the diff is just shuffling lines around to ckeep the 80 col rule... |
| 23:08:49 | * | scorche|sh wonders where tucoz has been =) |
| 23:09:14 | * | stripwax completely agrees with preglow |
| 23:09:14 | bluebrother | preglow: I disagree. I find it much harder spotting changes in wiki diffs (which usually are long lines) than in the current manual diffs (which are shorter) |
| 23:09:29 | * | stripwax completely agrees with bluebrother too. hmm. |
| 23:09:29 | MU{lappy} | preglow: i see the point he's making, if hard-wrapping causes a dozen more lines to change, it's very hard to see in the diff what has actually changed. |
| 23:10:00 | preglow | bluebrother: i had to actually write sentences out to long lines to spot where the actual difference was in a diff i had here... |
| 23:10:08 | bluebrother | and that's the reason I talked about a soft rule: if you need to shuffle the whole paragraph only because you entered one word it makes sense to have a longer line |
| 23:10:19 | preglow | bluebrother: since so much of the diff was just the same stuff being moved around to reformat the paragraph to the margin |
| 23:10:46 | bluebrother | I agree that reshuffling because of a hard limit isn't a good thing |
| 23:11:13 | preglow | bluebrother: ok, so SOME lines are allowed to break the limit? that makes no sense, then. it'll look like shit after a year |
| 23:11:46 | MU{lappy} | allow edits, but not new paragraphs, to break the limit |
| 23:12:07 | MU{lappy} | break the line on insert only when you have a reasonable portion of a whole line |
| 23:12:08 | bluebrother | true, but then someone could simply make a reformatting commit which doesn't change the content at all |
| 23:12:08 | MU{lappy} | maybe? |
| 23:12:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:12:26 | preglow | bluebrother: well, that sounds sensible, but will it happen? |
| 23:12:42 | preglow | bluebrother: can you imagine a more boring task? :) |
| 23:13:30 | bluebrother | make some script / editor automatically do it. |
| 23:14:20 | tucoz | scorche|sh: Thing is, i've only got a h100 that i rarely use. i think that is why i have been away for some time |
| 23:14:27 | ender` | <bluebrother> true, but then someone could simply make a reformatting commit which doesn't change the content at all <- aren't such commits frowned upon, because somebody could hide unwanted changes in them? |
| 23:14:28 | amiconn | If you edit a paragraph anyway, you can easily reflow it to keep the 80 char limit ... |
| 23:14:32 | preglow | i wouldn't trust it to a script, they have a hard time picking out what to leave on its own line |
| 23:14:35 | preglow | i've tried |
| 23:14:46 | preglow | amiconn: easily, yes, but it wastes time |
| 23:14:55 | stripwax | Any diff utils that can diff within the lines? |
| 23:14:56 | amiconn | How much? 5 seconds? |
| 23:15:16 | preglow | amiconn: 15 or so, *shrug* |
| 23:15:20 | preglow | i just think its pointless |
| 23:15:34 | preglow | but anyway, i'm now wasting more time discussing it, i was hoping for a series of quick "i agree"s :) |
| 23:17:09 | bluebrother | preglow: I've seen patches with a paragraph being a whole line. This makes it quite hard to review it so I don't agree that completely dropping the limit would be helpful. |
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| 23:17:34 | preglow | bluebrother: it's hard to review, but not harder than a diff full of reflowed lines |
| 23:17:37 | tucoz | well, as i felt it when i was working on the manual was that it was better to have a few >80 chrs lines, than tabs and crlf. tabs are a pain |
| 23:17:38 | bluebrother | and the reason behind people writing such paragraphs is simply editors inserting soft line breaks, so the user doesn't notive. |
| 23:17:45 | preglow | but it's obvious we don't agree about that, so let's not discuss that aspect, heh |
| 23:18:43 | amiconn | The 80 chars limit is not only important for editors, but also e.g. for diffing in ViewVC |
| 23:19:09 | preglow | yes, and i've already explained that i find diffing reflowed lines really annoying, since it's hard to find the actual change. not so with one long line, or at least not so much |
| 23:19:40 | amiconn | With long lines, ViewVC produces ugly line breaks |
| 23:19:44 | preglow | finding the actual change when most of the change is reflowed lines is almost impossible, at least for me |
| 23:20:28 | preglow | but to just cut this short i think i'm going to follow bluebrother's advice and not reflow anything |
| 23:20:51 | bertrik | I think the 80 character limit is out-of-date, but reaching consensus on a new (higher) limit is probably impossible |
| 23:21:11 | * | preglow uses 80 char wide editors and terminals |
| 23:21:13 | stripwax | 132? |
| 23:21:16 | preglow | i think that limit is completely ok |
| 23:21:25 | preglow | i'd be ok with a new limit, but i think 80 is preferable for now |
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| 23:25:57 | | Part tucoz (""good night"") |
| 23:26:39 | preglow | 80 chars is such a nice way to remind you you need to refactor your code into more functions too :> |
| 23:27:04 | Bagder | 80 limit is not out of date for code |
| 23:27:10 | preglow | hear hear |
| 23:27:25 | * | linuxstb stands next to bertrik |
| 23:27:52 | Bagder | there are basically two approaches to code, one is 80 and the other is "as wide as my screen can show" |
| 23:28:02 | Bagder | or possibly a third: even wider |
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| 23:28:18 | linuxstb | Or a 4th, somthing a bit bigger than 80... |
| 23:28:21 | preglow | did anyone fix the dir/playlist max size memory corruption bug? |
| 23:28:54 | preglow | i can't seem to trigger it any more |
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| 23:32:57 | preglow | is there a consensus on ize vs ise, btw? i can see both in the manual |
| 23:32:57 | * | bluebrother spots that this unspeakable study mode is gone :) |
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| 23:33:22 | amiconn | The manual should use british spelling iirc |
| 23:33:24 | bluebrother | the manual should be british english ... I think we used ise in the past. |
| 23:33:26 | amiconn | I.e. -ise |
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| 23:33:49 | bluebrother | wasn't that a reason for discussion ize being correct in british english too nowadays? |
| 23:34:09 | preglow | yeah |
| 23:34:15 | preglow | ise is a french influence, i think |
| 23:34:19 | preglow | ize was the first to appar |
| 23:34:23 | preglow | (this is just what i think i remember) |
| 23:35:11 | obo | -ise is the normal day-to-day british usage |
| 23:35:19 | preglow | then that is what we1ll use |
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| 23:35:50 | * | preglow loves his new mac keyboard quirks :/ |
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| 23:36:02 | stripwax | the 1 is near the ' ? |
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| 23:36:57 | linuxstb | Do you have a # symbol? |
| 23:37:26 | preglow | stripwax: ' is where the pipe is on pc keyboards |
| 23:37:34 | preglow | linuxstb: # |
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| 23:37:44 | preglow | shift-3 |
| 23:38:00 | linuxstb | Ah, must just be UK keyboards - we have a GBP symbol, but no #... |
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| 23:40:11 | * | stripwax doesn't understand .. ### |
| 23:41:06 | * | bluebrother has # left of enter |
| 23:41:11 | preglow | another mac keyboard quirk, i'd guess |
| 23:41:17 | preglow | bluebrother: freaky... |
| 23:41:39 | bluebrother | nah, just the german layout. |
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| 23:44:13 | kushal1 | could you tell me how recording in rockbox in sansa c250 works? does rockbox record in wav and compress the file when done recording? |
| 23:45:25 | bluebrother | kushal1: encoding is done during recording. But I don't know the details ... |
| 23:45:44 | Llorean | You only need enough space for the compressed recording |
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| 23:46:00 | * | preglow now has the dubious pleasure of translating his own "skip length" to norwegian... |
| 23:46:02 | kushal1 | Llorean, that's awesome |
| 23:46:46 | Llorean | kushal1: It wouldn't make sense any other way. |
| 23:47:12 | Llorean | We've had an mp3 encoder plugin for a while, so incorporating it into the recording system itself wouldn't have made much sense if you still need to do the encode pass afterward and reserve ridiculous amounts of space |
| 23:47:54 | preglow | wouldn't make sense, but you bump into plenty of ad-hoc solutions when dealing with open source projects |
| 23:48:10 | preglow | so the question is merited :) |
| 23:49:02 | Llorean | I thought the mp3 encoder plugin WAS the ad-hoc solution. :P |
| 23:49:45 | preglow | heh |
| 23:49:49 | preglow | i want that plugin removed, btw |
| 23:49:55 | mcuelenaere | can anyone tell me how big a normal lcd controller is? |
| 23:49:59 | preglow | i hate duplicate code :) |
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| 23:51:23 | amiconn | mcuelenaere: ? |
| 23:51:24 | preglow | mcuelenaere: pretty small, sometimes sealed in a lump of whatever they make chip casings of |
| 23:51:44 | amiconn | The actual controller is often a COG on the lcd module itself. Pretty small thing |
| 23:52:13 | mcuelenaere | COG->Chip On Glass? |
| 23:52:14 | preglow | amiconn: cog? new word for me |
| 23:52:25 | amiconn | mcuelenaere: yes |
| 23:52:58 | preglow | roit |
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| 23:53:11 | Xqtftqx | Hey guys |
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| 23:53:22 | mcuelenaere | hmm pretty small like a quarter of the size of a mini-usb connector? |
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| 23:54:16 | Xqtftqx | thats small |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).