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#rockbox log for 2008-07-14

00:00:08LinuxMafiaany one has any idea?
00:00:30LambdaCalculus37I ran rockboxdev.sh on my PowerBook to get a build environment set up, and by instinct select 'all' to set up all of the needed compilers.
00:01:02scorcheLinuxMafia: which ipod nano version is it?
00:01:23LambdaCalculus37I know that MIPS was added recently to support the Onda players and required environment, but it seems that some little bits of needed information are still not in rockboxdev.sh regarding PATH setup.
00:01:30LinuxMafiascorche, to be honest with you i dont know
00:01:42LambdaCalculus37So what's the path to the MIPS compiler so I can add it into my $PATH?
00:01:52scorcheLinuxMafia: could you find an image for us on google image search of what your ipod nano looks like?
00:02:02scorchethere are different versions of those devices
00:02:13BagderLambdaCalculus37: the MIPS one is not yet included in the all build
00:02:14LambdaCalculus37LinuxMafia: Three versions, as a matter of fact.
00:02:23d1sturbIs it possible to add a visualizer to the WPS [i.e. G-Force] ?
00:02:37LinuxMafiasure just a sec
00:03:30safetydand1sturb: no
00:03:39LambdaCalculus37Bagder: Ahh, got it. But there's a small problem... I just tried compiling a Gigabeat S build, and got this: http://pastebin.com/m247bb1cc
00:03:45LambdaCalculus37Any ideas?
00:03:54LinuxMafiahttp://images.appleinsider.com/product-red-ipod-mock2.gif
00:03:54d1sturbsafetydan• k, thanks
00:04:02LinuxMafiabut it is silver
00:04:15d1sturbthat's gen 2
00:04:21LambdaCalculus37LinuxMafia: 2nd gen nano... won't work.
00:04:39BagderLambdaCalculus37: hm, I think that's some missing stuff on your computer or similar
00:04:43 Quit d1sturb ("—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 3515")
00:04:43LinuxMafiabut any one knows why when i connect it to pc nothing comes up?
00:05:10LinuxMafiais there any setting i have to change in it?
00:05:12scorcheLinuxMafia: this is #rockbox...where we talking about (surprisingly) rockbox related items...your query doesnt really have anything to do with rockbox
00:05:27scorches/talking/talk
00:05:29LinuxMafiascorche, where can i ask?
00:05:35scorchei dont know, but not here
00:05:56LinuxMafiathanks
00:06:01LinuxMafiai try google
00:06:35LambdaCalculus37Bagder: Well, according to the previous owner, there already was an install version of gcc on this Mac, but I think it's older than required.
00:08:42*LambdaCalculus37 checks to see if he does indeed have all of the Xcode tools, since gcc is included
00:10:49 Join CrumbCat [0] (i=crumbcat@189-68-160-164.dsl.telesp.net.br)
00:11:03 Quit madspin (Remote closed the connection)
00:12:31MarcGuayLlorean: In a way, having "Draft version" writted all over the manual implies that there's a completed version somewhere, which is just another form of confusion.
00:13:03LloreanMarcGuay: Which will change in 1.5 months.
00:13:16LloreanIdeally we'll have a 3.0 manual to go with the 3.0 release.
00:13:51MarcGuayLlorean: Truth.
00:14:05LloreanTo me, the idea behind the "draft version" on every page is that people realize it won't always be exactly up to date with the builds. If we had more consistency in updating keymapping changes, new menus, etc. I'd be more in favour of reducing it somewhat
00:14:16LloreanAs it stands, I wouldn't mind if it were red and blinking in the HTML version.
00:14:52preglowdraft watermark should definitely stay
00:15:01MarcGuayLlorean: I guess it lowers expectations a little, which is nice. It's just ugly and a little bit of a beat-you-over-the-head-with-it.
00:15:01preglowit'll make more sense once we start releasing
00:15:23LloreanMarcGuay: "beat you over the head" is kinda the only way to get the message across, I suspect. :)
00:15:39LloreanBut yeah, I'm *really* hoping we'll have a decent enough 3.0 manual that the daily ones really are drafts
00:16:39preglowmuch in the way of that?
00:16:39MarcGuayLlorean: I think it's pretty close to golden. We just need to make some decisions regarding what's wiki material and what's manual material, then push those pieces into place. And add the minute details which are missing...
00:17:07 Join shot0fadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds)
00:17:30LloreanMarcGuay: That's pretty much how I feel, but I don't want to state personal opinions on completeness just yet. I *intend* to eventually sit down and read through one complete manual for one of the players I know well.
00:17:48Lloreanpreglow: Huh?
00:17:56MarcGuayLlorean: I was about to say it would be nice if someone gave the whole thing a proper proof-read before signing off on it.
00:18:26LloreanMarcGuay: Well, if I end up RM I'll *have* to, if I avoid that dubious honor, I'll put it on the list of things an RM should sign off on. :)
00:18:36MarcGuayI don't think it will ever be perfect, the software is just too complex, but we can at least make sure that everything is covered and it reads well.
00:18:59 Quit shotofadds (Nick collision from services.)
00:19:04 Nick shot0fadds is now known as shotofadds (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds)
00:20:07MarcGuaypreglow: If that gets committed don't forget the manual. :) I want that on a t-shirt with the RB logo stamped "Draft version".
00:20:59preglowMarcGuay: planning on updating the manual, yeah
00:21:12preglowjust want top make sure it's in the form we want it
00:22:33 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
00:23:47MarcGuayDoes anyone want to help this guy? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17719.msg129817#msg129817 I don't understand the problem and tired of prodding for info.
00:24:55MarcGuayMartin Arver is a champion star.
00:25:39 Quit MarcGuay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:29:01preglowwe seem to use setting \setting{} for both settings and actual settings choices
00:29:13preglowi think that's a typographical distinction worth making
00:29:23preglowignore that first "setting" there, keyboard problems
00:29:26 Join MarcGuay [0] (n=chatzill@ip216-239-89-126.vif.net)
00:29:32 Join PaulJam_ [0] (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3002.gwdg.de)
00:29:43Lloreanpreglow: Sounds sensible to me.
00:29:45 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
00:30:55 Quit BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection)
00:30:59preglowsettings themselves can be in small caps, as i thik they are. setting choices can be italic
00:31:02amiconnLlorean: Manual proof-reading needs to be done for all targets before release, preferably by someone who has the target(s) to compare the manual with reality
00:31:15preglowamiconn: i'd just read the source code
00:31:22 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=BHSPitLa@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey)
00:31:26preglowbut yeah, same result of course
00:32:49Lloreanamiconn: Frankly, we have to accept that may not happen. Signing off on the overall readiness (in terms of understandability, etc) of the "Apps" layer manual bits can be done with almost any manual, with "individual target owners signing off on target-specific manuals" being a wish-list kinda thing
00:32:52amiconnOf course you can read the source for comparison. But it's more difficult, and easier to overlook details if you're not familiar with the real thing. That's why I seaid 'preferably'
00:35:23andrewbeveridgehello again :)
00:35:28andrewbeveridgeI have found the cause of the problem, of sorts... I tried the same track, converted to different formats using MediaMonkey (my favourite audio organiser), to find that all of the converted files worked flawlessly! The original file, which causes faulty playback on rockbox, was converted using the "Windows Audio Converter" software which comes with Windows XP Media Center edition...
00:35:35andrewbeveridgeI always knew the software was trash, as it incorrectly merges ID3v1 and 2 tags for *interesting* results. But something about WMA files produced by that software seemingly clashes with Rockbox. Sadly, every one of the several thousand WMAs in my collection was converted using this software, so I am still eager to figure out why rockbox doesnt like them. I mean, they play fine on the PC...
00:35:40andrewbeveridgeHere is a link to the location of the faulty file and a working file, same format, but converted with different software, and also a sound recording of what playback of the faulty file sounds like when coming through speakers attached to my "rockpod". :)
00:35:45andrewbeveridgehttp://88.111.153.140/music/rockboxdebugging/
00:35:50pixelmaLlorean: I read the OndioFM manual completely once, the result was a todo list with things concerning this specific manual but also more general things. And it is still not "done" :\
00:36:48 Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
00:37:01 Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection)
00:37:15pixelmathat was about 1.5 years ago if that matters
00:37:42LloreanAre there any problems with it that you'd consider "release critical"?
00:38:32preglowandrewbeveridge: the problem was that these files skipped a lot, right?
00:38:51andrewbeveridgeplay the sample recording :)
00:38:52 Join DanHibiki [0] (n=Miranda@c9151cb2.virtua.com.br)
00:39:51 Quit shotofadds (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:39:54pixelmaLlorean: will have to go through that list now as I also had forgotten about it and things changed a bit and were done by someone else
00:41:39preglowandrewbeveridge: mok, thanks for the file, i'll relay it on the the wma guy if i don't have a look myself first
00:41:57 Part DanHibiki
00:42:43Lloreanpixelma: I would very, very much appreciate it if once you go through and remove anything you think might be fixed, you just made an "Ondio" header on the ManualTodo page and pasted it in there however you see fit.
00:43:34preglowandrewbeveridge: bad news, i tried the faulty file in vlc, and that also plays it wrong
00:43:49andrewbeveridgevlc plays all my wma files wrong :(
00:43:56Learandrewbeveridge: Sounds strange. I'd suspect the decoder isn't quite up to spec.
00:44:00preglowandrewbeveridge: that means the only open source wma codec can't play it correctly, and our wma decoder is based on that
00:44:10andrewbeveridgewmp, mediamonkey, winamp, amarok, all play them fine
00:44:24andrewbeveridgeah
00:44:26andrewbeveridgeright
00:44:28preglowandrewbeveridge: i suspect all of those use the windows decoder
00:44:28pixelmaLlorean: yep, wouldn't even be too hard once I go through the facts
00:44:42Learpreglow: Even amarok?
00:44:50andrewbeveridgesurely amarok uses the open source wma decoder too?
00:44:52preglowLear: right, i don't know about that at all
00:45:03preglowwell, if you find out about that, that'd be very interesting
00:45:11preglowi'll check out a new ffmpeg tree and try that out
00:45:21andrewbeveridgein fact i'm quite sure kaffeine plays them too
00:45:25andrewbeveridgeso xine must
00:46:08andrewbeveridgei'm going to reboot into linux and do some more testing :) before i do, i'll upload those files to a permanent server so they are still accessible
00:47:05 Join xxbatman94xx [0] (i=4c1fa2aa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e3bf6e2799dfcabf)
00:47:54 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:47:55 Quit PaulJam (Connection timed out)
00:47:55xxbatman94xxdoes anybody know if anyone is still working on fixing the video player for the ipod photo?
00:48:13Lloreanxxbatman94xx: What's wrong with the video player?
00:48:29xxbatman94xxit still has the color bug
00:48:52LloreanSo does Rockbox itself.
00:48:58LloreanThat's not a video-player specific problem.
00:49:25xxbatman94xxwell i kno..but i mean have they made a patch yet?
00:49:50LloreanWell, I couldn't have known because you asked about the video player, rather than the actual problem. The video player itself was fine. No, nobody has made a patch yet.
00:49:52 Quit xxbatman94xx (Client Quit)
00:49:57LloreanIf there were an actual fix, we'd have included it.
00:50:02LloreanAh well
00:50:11 Join xxbatman94xx [0] (i=4c1fa2aa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9f63df39e4accab0)
00:50:17*stripwax hmms
00:50:24 Join CaptainKewl [0] (i=jds@207-237-173-165.c3-0.nyr-ubr4.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com)
00:50:25pixelmaLlorean: hah, I also just remembered that there also must be a short list of amiconn's nitpicks on the Player manual somewhere around here ;)
00:51:17 Quit xxbatman94xx (Client Quit)
00:51:32LloreanHonestly, much like the build itself, we can have hacked versions of the manual for 3.0 where we just manually type in things if there's no good way to do it within the current dynamic system.
00:51:34preglowandrewbeveridge: seems to work nice enough in ffmpeg svn
00:51:51preglowdoesn't sound perfect, though
00:51:56 Quit Lambduh (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:52:07andrewbeveridgehmmm in what way?
00:52:11 Join Lambduh [0] (n=Lambda@64.6.88.58)
00:52:27LloreanThey are pretty low bitrate, aren't they?
00:52:58linuxstbI've just been playing it with a recent mplayer, and it sounds OK... But mplayer is giving 3 or 4 "overflow in spectral RLE" errors near the start.
00:53:04andrewbeveridgewell, as VBR WMA goes, no. I find a VBR 60-80 kbps MA file sounds exactly the same as a 128 kbps MP3
00:53:06linuxstb(and it skips a little at those points)
00:53:58Lloreanandrewbeveridge: I meant in an objective sense, not in a subjective "what you think of them" sense.
00:53:59preglowandrewbeveridge: none of them sounds nice in current ffmpeg
00:54:08preglowthey play without gaps, but have horrible artifacts
00:54:10 Quit andrewbeveridge ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:54:18 Join andrewbeveridge [0] (n=586f998c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b54300e6c35818f8)
00:54:20preglowlinuxstb: overflow in spectral rle isn't fatal and actually quite common
00:54:55linuxstbpreglow: So you don't get any short skips near the start?
00:54:56preglowi don't have a native decoder handy, so don't know how it should sound
00:54:59preglowlinuxstb: i do
00:55:09preglowbut the whole file sounds nasty