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#rockbox log for 2008-07-15

00:00:40Xqtftqxsorry, didnt mean to do that
00:01:36Xqtftqxanybody know the real links for the gigabeat s Manuel? the ones in the wiki are dead
00:01:37 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:01:58 Join CyBergRind|w [0] (n=cbr@
00:02:34Bagderis that buildable?
00:02:37 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
00:02:43bluebrotherXqtftqx: I don't see any Beast specific manual
00:03:46Xqtftqxhuh, i thought there was one because of r17429
00:04:15 Quit safetydan (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:04:16bluebrotherwell, that's the basic stuff to make one build at all.
00:04:39bluebrotherand that commit is 2 months ago ...
00:05:37Xqtftqxhas anybody noticed the metronome in the beast doesnt work? well it does sorta, not realy a *tick* 100% of the time
00:06:33 Quit [CBR]Unspoken|w (Operation timed out)
00:06:57 Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere)
00:08:32 Join jac0b|w [0] (i=42207874@gateway/web/ajax/
00:08:56jac0b|wI am having a problem with flac files or big files
00:09:17XqtftqxWhats your problem jac0b|w
00:09:27jac0b|wwhen I transfer them to my player the tracks have artifacts but if I convert that flac to a ogg it plays fine
00:09:51jac0b|wcould it be rb or my player HD
00:10:12jac0b|wlike weird sounds in the track
00:10:25jac0b|wbeeps clicks
00:10:35Xqtftqxand they play fine on your computer?
00:10:53 Quit davina ("GNU/Linux the free alternative to Windows")
00:11:04Xqtftqxwhat DAP is it?
00:11:12PaulJamypu could compare the md5 checksum of the file on the player with that of the file on the PC to make sure it wasn't corruptrd during transfer.
00:11:26jac0b|wgigabeat f
00:11:38Xqtftqxor re transferrer
00:11:45jac0b|wPaulJam: one sec let me look
00:11:59jac0b|wit seems to just be the flac
00:11:59 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:12:05jac0b|wlike I said earlier
00:12:14Xqtftqxwhat os aer you running
00:12:21Xqtftqxwhat os are you running*
00:12:35jac0b|wItried on both
00:12:40jac0b|wi tried*
00:12:47jac0b|wgot the samw result
00:12:50Xqtftqxyou can give me one of these files and i can try it to see if its the file or th player
00:13:06 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:13:31jac0b|wlet me try what PaulJam said first
00:13:44Xqtftqxalso, you can try it in the simulator
00:14:03jac0b|wyeah i will
00:14:11 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (
00:18:20 Quit bertrik ("bye")
00:19:41 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:22:22 Nick bertrik_ is now known as bertrik (
00:23:32jac0b|wthe md5 is the same for both files but it still has the artifacts
00:24:01jac0b|wI will have to restart and try it with a new build
00:24:15 Quit jac0b|w (" ajax IRC Client")
00:24:40 Join Seldaek [0] (
00:25:19Seldaekheya, trying to use WinFF, and it just doesn't do anything.. is it a known issue that it fucks up on xp64 bit or am I just out of luck?
00:25:37Xqtftqxwhat os you running?
00:25:48Xqtftqxbtw, be family friendly
00:25:53Seldaekxp 64bit :)
00:27:03Xqtftqxhmmm, WInFF doesnt run at all? or it doesnt work
00:27:10Seldaekit runs
00:27:25Seldaekbut when I hit convert, it does nothing
00:27:34Seldaekwell it runs his thing, or that's what he says
00:27:51XqtftqxI can take a look via remote controll, if you trust me
00:27:52 Join Nibbl [0] (
00:27:52SeldaekbutI get no file output, not even an empty one
00:28:09 Join Rocket [0] (
00:28:15 Join jac0b [0] (
00:28:20Seldaekwell I doubt I did something wrong, didn't do much anyway
00:28:37RocketJust installed Rockbox on my G4 Ipod and I'm amazed
00:28:46RocketThis pies of soft is awsome
00:28:58 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:29:02XqtftqxWe Know :P
00:29:14Seldaekbesides I don't have the time now, just wished to know if it was known fact that it broke.. I'll try it on a xp32bit tomorrow
00:29:17scorche|shSeldaek: you will probably have better luck asking the winff/ffmpeg guys...
00:29:22RocketI just wonder if it is possible to output the music through the internal Speakers of Ipod
00:29:24 Quit bertrik ("reboot to windows")
00:29:37Seldaekaye scorche|sh, tomorrow :)
00:29:42scorche|shthere are no internal speakers
00:29:44Seldaekthanks anyway
00:29:56scorche|shthe piezo doesnt count
00:29:59RocketLike the noise when you select something in original Ipod firmware
00:30:07scorche|shyes...that is a piezo
00:30:18Rocketwhats a piezo?
00:30:37scorche|shit really isnt practical for music
00:30:41 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:31:02Xqtftqxsorry Rocket, not yet, but look for it in the future
00:31:18RocketOK sounds cool
00:31:20scorche|shXqtftqx: uh...what?
00:31:36XqtftqxPlaying sounds from the speakers, like simple clicks
00:31:43Xqtftqxnot music though
00:31:49scorche|shhe wants music...
00:32:06Xqtftqxthats why he said "Like the noise when you select something in original Ipod firmware" ...
00:32:18Rocketif you dont have earplugs on hand
00:32:20scorche|shXqtftqx: read what he asked again
00:32:32Xqtftqxok w.e
00:32:37Rocketnot for having a concert but just checking if sound is ok
00:33:01scorche|shRocket: dont look for it in the future because it really is not practical ;)
00:33:15Xqtftqxclicking noises when scrolling is though
00:33:32RocketThe Software is perfect anyway
00:33:34scorche|shXqtftqx: yes but that isnt what he asked
00:33:42RocketCouldn't ask for more
00:33:52RocketOK guys don't argue
00:33:55Rocketits OK
00:34:05RocketI just thought that would be possible
00:34:19RocketIf not. Its not that much of a problem
00:34:33RocketI'm off testing the software
00:34:33scorche|shit is capable of simple clicks/beeps and such, but not full-blown music
00:34:49RocketBye and keep on the fantastic work
00:35:27Xqtftqxok goodbye
00:35:30jac0bput a up-to-date version on my player and I am still getting the artifacts
00:36:35Xqtftqxjac0b: Chould you send me one of the .flac files?
00:37:29Xqtftqxor just convert them all to .ogg or mp3
00:38:01scorche|shhe said he didnt get the artifacts when transcoded...
00:38:55PaulJamjac0b: how did you create the flac files?
00:39:05jac0bthey are recorded records
00:39:57Xqtftqxyep, theres the problem, the quaility and vibrate are probley messed up
00:40:10Xqtftqxand when you convert, it fixes that
00:40:18PaulJami meant which encoder and what encoder settings?
00:40:21Xqtftqxtry using a converter to convert them to flac
00:41:16jac0bI use the flac encoder from the flac site
00:41:23jac0bquality 8
00:41:32jac0b24-bit 96khz
00:41:54 Part Rocket
00:42:15scorche|shjac0b: try thr standard 44.1khz
00:42:37jac0bbrb dinner time
00:42:44scorche|shthe DACs in these DAPs are not capable of more so we need to downscale anyway
00:43:19 Quit PaulJam (".")
00:43:26 Join PaulJam [0] (
00:44:28PaulJammaybe you are expreiencing the wonders of rockbox' linear interpolation resampler
00:44:55 Join swears [0] (
00:46:19swearsHey, if anyone needs a tester for rockbox on the Gigabeat S60, i can definately help
00:46:22 Join homielowe [0] (
00:46:47scorche|shthanks, but i do not think that is the current hurdle
00:47:02scorche|shif testers are needed, they will likely be asked for in the forum thread
00:47:29 Quit herrwaldo (Remote closed the connection)
00:47:36swearsoh ok, do you have a link for the forum? I've been trying to find a place to get some updates on the progress.
00:47:48preglowmanual diffs are the worst kind of diffs
00:47:55preglowin the future i should commit directly after making changes :/
00:48:33scorche|shswears: rockbox forum > new ports > the thread about the gigabeat s
00:48:49 Quit obo ("bye")
00:49:09 Quit ender` (" Our chances of being caught by the RIAA or IFPI are somewhat less than being hit by lightning - or choking on a wasabi-flav")
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00:51:40preglowi hope i didn't break any manuals
00:51:50preglowand this definitely feels like my bedtime
00:52:14*preglow will check back tomorrow
00:56:52jac0bPaulJam: what is the linear interpolation resampler
00:58:12 Quit Nibbl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:58:25PaulJamif i understand correctly the resampler used in rockbox is really basic and doesn't produce the best results (but it is fast).
00:59:29 Join K4rP4D [0] (n=KrPD@unaffiliated/krpd)
00:59:39scorche|shit really isnt that great
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01:11:35 Quit fdinel (Nick collision from services.)
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01:12:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:17:31 Join axionix [0] (
01:17:52jac0bI am trying a file in the sim and it is does the same thing
01:18:10Xqtftqxwrong encoding
01:19:03scorche|shjac0b: as we said before, try encoding it at the standard 44.1khz setting
01:19:32jac0bits weird throught it worked before
01:19:55linuxstbIIRC, 24-bit/96KHz FLAC should play fine on all Rockbox targets, so if they don't know, something's broken. Although I could be mis-remembering...
01:20:24scorche|shlinuxstb: it sounds like he is getting artifacts from our outstanding resampler
01:20:26jac0bI am up/ing one right now maybe you guysd can see if you get the same thing
01:20:40 Quit a-journey-in-the ()
01:21:32jac0bI tried to find the smallest one (76mb) to up it give artifacts in the sim and on my player
01:22:09jac0bwas there any changes to the resampler in the past month?
01:22:22jac0bmaybe 2 months
01:22:28PaulJamyou could also try running "flac -t INPUTFILE" in order to test if the original file wasn't corrupted somehow.
01:23:31linuxstbjac0b: You could try older builds - some of the download servers keep very old versions. What device are you running Rockbox on?
01:23:47scorche|sheven if it did work without artifacts, you would still be better off re-encoding the files using your computer to 44.1khz...much better quality than what our resampler would give you
01:24:21linuxstbscorche|sh: Yes, but if it's worse now than it used to be, we want to know...
01:24:32jac0bjust a gigabeat f
01:24:46jac0bI got a older build of mine
01:24:52SoapI would assume 88.2 would also do fine with Rockbox's resampler???
01:25:18Soap(if you must push the limits)
01:25:39*scorche|sh wonders why people would encode at 88.2
01:26:39linuxstbjac0b: Try this link -
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01:31:36 Join CamMendoza [0] (n=6034232f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:33:41CamMendozaHi. My name's Cam.
01:34:01CamMendozaI'm wondering if I can get Wiki write permissions so that I can upload a WPS.
01:34:36 Quit midgey (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:37:24CamMendozaI fixed the Pen&PaperAA WPS for the iPod video.
01:43:41 Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@rockbox/developer/midgey)
01:43:57 Quit kushal1 ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008061015]")
01:47:27jac0bPaulJam: the file tested ok
01:48:07jac0blinuxstb: I went all the way back to 06-14-08 and still does it
01:48:20jac0bI am pretty sure it is my file
01:50:21 Join MarcGuay [0] (
01:50:30 Quit sitwon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:53:10 Quit Xqtftqx (" ajax IRC Client")
01:54:02jac0bok this is weird
01:54:03 Quit CamMendoza ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:54:35 Quit anathema (Connection timed out)
01:54:43jac0bI decoded the flac to a wav played fine encoded that wav back to a flac artifacts again
01:54:51jac0bcould it be the file guys or no
01:55:21jac0bwav was the original format of the file
01:56:19scorche|shwas the wav 96khz as well/
01:56:41MarcGuayThe iPod 3G can record through the headphone jack and the dock connector, but HAVE_RECORDING has been commented out in the config for as far back as SVN goes. Does anyone know if there's a reason for this or should it be enabled?
01:57:02 Join xqtftqx [0] (i=40e9e3d2@gateway/web/ajax/
01:57:19LloreanMarcGuay: No drivers for it at all yet, probably.
01:57:27scorche|shdid you try a 44.1khz flac version yet?
01:58:20jac0bhow do I encode it at 44.1
01:58:35 Join swears|2 [0] (
01:59:31MarcGuayLlorean: Is that different from the situation with the H10 that came up yesterday? Does/did it have half-finished drivers that required pestering?
02:00:24LloreanMarcGuay: Yeah, recording on the H10 is a case of "it should be working, isn't, and needs someone to work on it" whereas on the 3G I think it's "it needs someone to start it"
02:00:55MarcGuayLlorean: Check.
02:01:12scorche|shjac0b: that would depend on what you use to encode files in flac typically
02:02:05jac0bthe flac front with the flac.exe in wondows
02:02:40jac0bdoesn't audacity do resampling
02:03:42 Join Bensawsome [0] (
02:05:54 Quit oofus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:06:11linuxstbjac0b: I assume you're using the very latest flac release?
02:07:08jac0bumm I think, I d/l'ed it a couple of weeks maybe a month ago
02:07:51linuxstbflac 1.2.1 (maybe earlier), sneaked in some backwards-incompatible changes to the format, affecting high resolution files. I remember someone committing a fix to Rockbox to support those files, but I don't know how well it was tested... It would be interesting if you could test an older flac version.
02:08:51jac0bI am resampling a file to 44.1 24-bit
02:09:07scorche|shsorry...not 24-bit
02:09:35*pixelma reviews preglow's changes to the manual and finds out that "labelled" is British spelling and "labeled" American... weird
02:09:38scorche|shthere ya go
02:10:21pixelmaaccording to my dictionary...
02:10:43linuxstb"labelled" looks right to my eyes...
02:12:36 Join Thundercloud [0] (
02:12:58pixelmathat would be my preference too. So if this is British English and the manual should follow that, it needs changing back. But not now
02:13:34jac0byep the 16-bit 44.1khz sounds fine
02:14:12jac0byeah something happened to the flac codec
02:14:32jac0bit give artifacts at 24-bit 96khz
02:16:16jac0blinuxstb: when was that flac change added to rb?
02:16:26linuxstbSeptember last year.
02:16:32 Quit swears (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:16:47jac0bwoah way back
02:17:08linuxstbCan you try encoding with an earlier flac.exe?
02:17:24jac0bits weird through like I said rb was playing them fine a month or so ago
02:17:36jac0byeah I will try that
02:17:46linuxstbEncoded with the same flac.exe that you're using now?
02:17:46 Part pixelma
02:18:26jac0bumm I think so...I can't remember but I think it was the same
02:19:43linuxstbI need to sleep now, I'll read the logs in the morning...
02:20:56jac0blinuxstb: where are you at
02:21:22jac0bi'll try 1.2.0
02:23:19 Join CamMendoza [0] (
02:28:56 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:29:21Bensawsomewhen i updated to rockbox r18XXX it changed the play screen. Is there any way to change it back to the regular one?
02:29:32 Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@
02:31:40 Quit PaulJam (".")
02:32:05SoapBensawsome, without knowing what While Playing Screen (WPS) you /were/ using I can not say. Much has changed over the last few months in regards to how WPSs work, you will need to redownload updated or known-working WPSs.
02:34:11BensawsomeSoap, i just downloaded some new ones to try with it and it didnt seem to change :(
02:35:13Bensawsomewhat is really annoying about it is that it doesnt show what level the volume is so i sometimes blast my ears -_-
02:36:37Soapyea, well that (numeric volume display) is up to the individual WPS. If you mention what player and what WPS we are talking about I can see if they should be working.
02:37:27SoapOr you could alway turn on the status bar while in menus and set the volume display in the status bar to numeric - that way you can see the precise level the volume is at before starting playback.
02:37:34Bensawsomei mean i tried all the wps's i had (which was about 20) and none of them worked right
02:37:52Bensawsomethen i downloaded tyhe new ones and they didnt work either
02:38:03Bensawsomeo and i have a sansa e200r
02:38:08Bensawsomesry about that
02:38:57SoapWhat version (or how old of one) were you using?
02:39:30 Quit midgey ()
02:39:44Bensawsomei was using one of the r17XXX biulds and i think i downloaded it about 2 or 3 months ago
02:39:56SoapLike I said, recent changes in the WPS syntax have broken a vast majority of old themes, and if your previous version was so old then all the themes you have are too old.
02:40:24SoapBut I can point you to a discussion on how and what to change in your themes to get them working again, or we can talk about specific ones.
02:40:29Bensawsomewhere can i get a more up to date theme them?
02:40:32Bensawsomeo cool :d
02:40:49MarcGuayLlorean: It looks like the drivers are there. The 3G has WM8731, same as the H10, according to its config file. Of course the line-in on the H10 has been reported broken, but it looks like recording should be enabled.
02:41:06Soap is the page announcing the (then) upcomming change and what needs fixed.
02:41:22Bensawsomethank you very much ^_^
02:41:33 Join cool_walking_ [0] (
02:42:16SoapLook on the wiki theme gallery, Bensawsome, for up-to-date themes, or browse the forums (WPS and Appearance Customization) for further discussion on ones which need fixed and ones which have been fixed.
02:42:58LloreanMarcGuay: No clue then. It may be then just because we don't have anyone with a 3G to at least do an initial test and/or be around to accept feedback. It's one of the targets we have less of than even the H10, and the only reason it was enabled on the H10 I think is that Mic recording worked, so it was thought line in should (there was nobody with a cable to test)
02:43:36Bensawsomewait is this what you mean by the wiki theme gallery? because this is where i downloaded about 3 new themes
02:43:45MarcGuayLlorean: That's what the closed flyspray tasks say.
02:44:18SoapBensawsome, yes - and I don't know what to say as you have yet to mention a specific theme for me to look at.
02:44:21LloreanMarcGuay: Basically, it shouldn't be enabled unless someone's willing to say "I'm reasonably confident this will work", after which it shouldn't be disabled unless you can't record at all.
02:46:03SoapHas there been any thought as to giving the WPS syntax an official version number so that WPSs could be labeled as to the version of the syntax they were written for? It might make updating broken themes earlier. A wiki page could be maintained describing the steps needed to take WPSv5 to WPSv6 and then WPSv6 to WPSv7, etc.
02:46:05MarcGuayLlorean: Alright I'm going to drop it. The small changed I made to the recording sources in the manual yesterday speak the truth as it is.
02:46:17Bensawsomesry Soap i downloaded Ultima v1.0, CoolRead (red, purple, blue), Pirates (red, purple, blue), and Miss LED Natural
02:46:45MarcGuayBensawsome: Plain & Simple and Cabbie v2-HelvR12 should work.
02:46:46SoapBensawsome, try Plain & Simple.
02:47:05BensawsomeMarcGuay, and Soap thanks ^_^
02:47:08Bensawsomei try them
02:47:17LloreanMarcGuay: Honestly, except for the Sansas, I don't think any of the other PP recording targets will have it enabled in 3.0 unless a few key things change.
02:47:22MarcGuaySorry they're not as exciting as pirates.
02:48:18Bensawsomeo I see now! they have dates they weresubmitted woops ^_^
02:48:37MarcGuayLlorean: Yeah I'm just thinking of now. And even the Sansas, at least the e200, the microphone recording is awful when the backlight is on.
02:49:02LloreanMarcGuay: Yeah, but that's juts flawed hardware, I think.
02:49:04SoapBensawsome, I think in one casual evening you could probably fix every one of your themes which is currently broken. The needed modifications are small. Half the issue is we can't redistribute WPSs with fixes if the original author didn't use a permissive license, but you can surely fix them yourself for personal use, and hopefully in the future we can get clearer licensing and no more run-on sentence.
02:49:08MarcGuaySeems like it.
02:49:39Bensawsomethanks Soap i see if i can try that. Thank you all very much ^_^
02:50:33 Join midgey [0] (
02:54:10jac0bif any of guy want to try the flac thing here is a link to my file
02:56:34Soapno bites on the WPS versioning idea? Oh well
02:56:42xqtftqxjac0b: Ill try it on mine
02:57:01*krazykit thinks the wps version idea is good
02:57:02SoapAnyone mind if I shit-can those MASSIVE promo-combo screenshots in the sansa wps gallery?
02:58:02*Llorean doesn't mind at all.
02:58:15LloreanSoap: WPS versioning idea?
02:58:17 Join midgey_ [0] (
02:58:21jac0bI just encoded it with flac 1.2.0 and it seems to play fine but I will do more testing tomorrow...I gtg to bed
02:58:44jac0bI thik the version of flac I was using was 1.1.4
02:59:08jac0bgood nite to all
02:59:11 Quit jac0b ("Leaving")
02:59:50MarcGuaySoap: I hate them too.
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03:08:10SoapLlorean, 20:46 EDT
03:09:03LloreanSoap: Ah, actually I think there might be a better solution.
03:09:11LloreanIf/when we get the theme site working.
03:09:54LloreanSince we'll have them under modifiable licenses, there's a good chance we can actually just script fixes to themes when syntax changes occur
03:12:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:12:14SoapI don't see how that addresses all the confusion in and of itself.
03:12:40 Quit midgey (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:12:55SoapIF the new site was up today it would go a long way - but:
03:13:00 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
03:13:03LloreanSoap: There will always be confusion, but it'll mean all downloadable themes will work with the current downloadable build.
03:13:06SoapA - what is the downside to versioning?
03:13:33SoapB - what happens if/when syntax changes again before the theme site goes live.
03:13:47LloreanA - Nothing, beyond WPS authors needing to keep track of what the current "version" is, and which parts of which version are incompatible with other ones.
03:13:58LloreanFor example, any theme that didn't include %pb and %m didn't break
03:13:59SoapC - versioning would allow easy labeling of all broken unlicensed themes.
03:14:07LloreanSo V4 and V5 are *semi* incompatible because only certain tags are.
03:14:23LloreanIt seems to me this would provoke more confusion than simply saying "this tag and this tag changed"
03:14:31Soapthen a V4 theme w/o %pb and %m could instantly be labeled v5 in the wiki.
03:15:01SoapProblem is "this tag and this tag changed" two or three times since some of the broken themes have been touched.
03:15:07LloreanBy who? The same person could simply mark themes *with* %pb and %m as broken.
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03:15:47LloreanHow is a version system for marking themes "good" better than simply marking bad themes "bad"?
03:16:05LloreanEspecially when version changes aren't global, they are fairly limited in what parts of themes they affect.
03:16:19Soapthey could, you are right, outline every change needed to fix broken wiki themes, but you don't think a version label and a single WPS version upgrade guide is easier still?
03:17:00LloreanBy that standard we could just mark current themes "Error Q" then in the upgrade guide have "how to fix Error Q"
03:17:09LloreanVersions for the errors, rather than versions for the themes.
03:17:24SoapThe version system excels in that a simple note in the wiki can lead someone to specific directed instructions w/o cluttering up the gallery pages with repeated instructions for each and every theme.
03:17:41LloreanI'm not disagreeing that there could be an upgrade guide.
03:18:02LloreanI'm disagreeing that we version themes rather than simply marking "This theme has errors 3 and 4" then someone goes to the guide and sees the instructions for fixing 3 and 4.
03:18:07xqtftqxupgrade guide whould be good
03:18:56LloreanIf you mark a theme "Version 2" and we're on "Version 5", people not interested in doing any work won't even go to look to see what the 2->3->4->5 steps are and discover the version 2 theme is still good because it was text based and only showed 3 ID3 tags.
03:19:39LloreanSo it depends on someone updating a theme that works, when if it works they'll probably never come back anyway
03:19:47SoapI totally understand your case, Llorean, I just think versioning is a _familiar_ and easy to adopt global way of discussing changes to syntax which is easy to describe, easy to document, and easy to grasp for casual WPS fixers.
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03:20:24LloreanSoap: I honestly believe versioning will lead to more confusion, with people saying things like "Well, my other Version 2 themes work"
03:20:54SoapLlorean, that (2-5 text wps) argument is a red herring as it is little different than the current situation except the roles are reversed.
03:21:09LloreanMy point is that with the reversed roles comes a different sort of confusion.
03:21:25SoapBut one I feel is more easily and casually addressed.
03:22:02LloreanI don't think so, but it's worth an experiment I suppose.
03:22:59SoapMore casually addressed in that it is easier to simply retag a theme "works on new syntax) (i e. changing v2 to v5) than it is to diagnose a broken WPS.
03:23:27Soapwatch out for my parentheses / double quote switchup.
03:23:41LloreanYeah, but I *think* that either people aren't going to download one marked "v2", or if they already have it, and it still works, they're unlikely to go to the wiki and track it down just to update its entry.
03:24:01LloreanI think that people actually monitoring that sort of thing on the page are, by definition, non-casual.
03:24:14LloreanBut it's worth a shot, at least.
03:25:53Soapaarrgghh, " Parilis" in the sansa WPS gallery didn't just have an _extra_ extravagant screenshot (like "Free State" did) - that huge honking thing was the multifont version's only screenshot. Delete it or leave it?
03:28:56LloreanEw, leave it gone
03:29:31LloreanWhy do people feel their themes need such presentation?
03:29:37Soapthank you for cleaning my conscience.
03:30:05LloreanSeriously, it was more than half wasted space.
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03:33:36SoapPerhaps a requirement that contact info be left for all new wiki accounts?
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03:35:31JdGordonLlorean: wasnt there some talk of removing the themes (except cabbiev2) from the builds and trying to force people to use rbutil to install them? more and more im thinking we should get the theme site up and running as it is and fix issues while its live so we can use it for the (hopefully) imminent release
03:35:45JdGordon(barin dump re your forum thread on the subject)
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03:36:50JdGordonarg.. gotta race a plane... bbl
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03:44:41xqtftqxrbutil should not be the only way to install themes
03:45:30xqtftqxthere should be a easy way i agree but, there should be no forcing
03:45:44xqtftqxsome people like doing it themeselfs
03:45:57xqtftqxbut, what if rockbox chould load a tar file, like blah.theme
03:46:16xqtftqxand extact it to where the files go? therefore making it easy and cross compatible
03:48:08LloreanJdGordon: What I'd like to do for the release is have a static theme site.
03:48:18LloreanEvery theme that works with 3.0 up, but no functionality for adding new themes.
03:48:32LloreanWe can worry about getting all that working later, for "Current Build Themes", but 3.0 themes don't need to change anyway.
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03:52:43Arkbuntuhelllo. I am having a problem with my Sansa e250r. None of the themes work properly. Is anyone else having this problem?
03:55:37ArkbuntuThank you very much. Have any of the themes been updated? Specifically Slant. I think it's the only good theme for the Sansa e200.
03:56:11MarcGuayYou'll have to check yourself. It's an easy fix either way.
03:56:42ArkbuntuAck! I'm lazier than lazy. But ok. Thanks for your help!
03:56:45MarcGuayI've updated mine.
03:57:02MarcGuay(Some of the not-good ones) :)
03:58:58Arkbuntuuh. noob question. how do i fix it? D: is there a guide to fixing it?
04:00:21MarcGuayThat post I linked you to explains it pretty well.
04:01:57ArkbuntuReally? Well then I must be retarded or something. "%pb... or just %pb" doesn't make sense
04:02:52ArkbuntuI'm a noob sorry D: I've never really done anything that has to do with coding.\
04:04:01MarcGuayArkbuntu: If you open up the .wps file of the theme you'll see those %tags and they need to be changed. The CustomWPS wiki page will help you as well.
04:04:44ArkbuntuOk.. I think I got this. Do you have any themes you prefer?
04:08:07MarcGuayScreaming Oprah is the one I use most often.
04:08:47Arkbuntu.. lol
04:09:49ArkbuntuI am seriously still confused. I don't know the least bit of how to do this. Is it an easy fix? if so. Is it just text replacing? and if so, what text to i replace with what?
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04:17:14swears|2Can someone point me in the right direction on how to Sync files on my gigabeat S60 w/ Mediamonkey using Rockbox
04:17:32swears|2the only way i've been able to music on, is my dragging with windows explorer
04:17:48swears|2or is this the only way?
04:18:55Arkbuntuswears|2: It's the only way as of now for me at least. I use WMP to sync music or just drag it in explorer
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04:19:11swears|2ok thanks.
04:19:22swears|2Thought there was a prob w/ MM for a second
04:20:01LloreanRockbox shows up as a standard UMS device.
04:20:17LloreanNothing special needs to be done to sync with it, so if MediaMonkey is supposed to sync with UMS players, it is something wrong with it.
04:20:35ArkbuntuLlorean: I wouldn't know, I use a Sansa, and nothing works with the dang thing anyhow
04:20:37swears|2haven't been able to have it show up yet
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04:20:51LloreanArkbuntu: On the Sansa you're stuck using the original firmware for transfers.
04:21:14swears|2I used the original firmware to transfer all my songs over
04:21:18swears|2but, they dont show up organized
04:21:25swears|2so, I guess I'll have to have double of each
04:21:28ArkbuntuLlorean: I use explorer and WMP. The orignal firmware doesn't support it either.
04:21:56LloreanArkbuntu: Rockbox doesn't have USB mode on it. You're using the original firmware's USB mode unless you're using a modified version of Rockbox
04:22:17Lloreanswears|2: You should be using Rockbox's USB mode for transfers. But you should also be aware, the Gigabeat S is not supported yet, and is still a development build.
04:22:23ArkbuntuLlorean: Oh. Sorry, I thought you meant using Rhapsody. Which is a pile of crap.
04:22:30swears|2yeah, I'm just messing around with it
04:22:37LloreanArkbuntu: Original *Firmware* as in "the software on the player"
04:22:48swears|2Arkbuntu, have you figured out how to get album art to show up?
04:22:59swears|2I've read it only takes .bmps
04:23:11swears|2and they must be in the album folder
04:23:15ArkbuntuI don't use the album art. I barely look at the screen.
04:23:15LloreanIt's pretty thoroughly explained on the AlbumArt wiki page.
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04:26:01xqtftqxswears|2: just make a folder "music" and put it all in there and activate the database
04:26:15swears|2yep, doing that now =_
04:27:36swears|2Will the gigabeat F Themes work on my unit?
04:29:55swears|2Nm, just tried, works!
04:30:42SoapThemes are resolution (and colour depth) specific, not player specific.
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04:38:41Midtronichowdy −− I just put rockbox on my 30g iPod video, and it won't play .flac. I was looking to see if I missed something to install, but I don't think so... is this a known bug, or am I doing something dumb?
04:39:17MidtronicI can read the filenames with no issue, but when I play, I don't get past 0:00
04:42:09Soapwhat version of the encoder were they made with, what sample rate and bitd epth are they, do the files (from your iPod, not your computer's HDD) play fine on another player, and (I don't think this matters) what type of tags do they have.
04:46:21Midtronicok, I'm not sure about the encoder version, but 16bit stereo @ 44.1 kHz
04:46:30MidtronicI'm going to try to play one right now..
04:47:24Midtronicyeah, I can play off of the iPod just fine.
04:48:54Midtronicoh. I'm a dolt. Nevermind.
04:55:17LloreanSoap: Some encoders put ID3 tags on FLAC files, and this does cause problems for Rockbox afaik.
04:55:28LloreanSpecifically I think this may be a default behaviour for grip
04:57:05Midtronicorly. Ok, I picked the wrong file to test... I just checked an id3'd flac and it didn't work
04:57:50LloreanThe native tag format for FLAC is vorbis comment, and that's the type Rockbox expects them to have.
04:58:18Midtronicthe fact that rockbox plays flac is worth the issue, imho. I'll figure some stuff out later, I guess. It probably wouldn't be too hard to write a converter, either
04:58:47LloreanWell if they have ID3 tags instead of Vorbis Comments, your encoder is doing something it shouldn't be.
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04:59:11Midtronicwell, I've been using grip and haven't modified any of the settings
04:59:14Midtronicso it makes sense
04:59:35LloreanThat being said, it's a bug that Rockbox fails rather than ignoring the tags and just treating the file as untagged.
04:59:47LloreanBut properly tagged files *should* play fine.
05:02:08Soap(assuming windows) Foobar2000 has everything you need, midgey
05:02:15SoapMidtronic even, sorry midgey
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05:10:11Midtronicnope.. I use m$ as little as possible. I'll look around cpan and see how easy it would be to write a perl script to just fix those files
05:10:45Midtronicthanks for the help though −− well-tagged files do, in fact, play just fine. I'll have some fun getting everything to work on rockbox
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05:18:14wpyhgevaerts: charging using RB's usb stack is very slow
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05:22:25wpyhto anyone trying to optimize bubbles, here's a good demo of polygon collision:
05:22:44wpyhI've looked at the source but I'm not sure I'm up to the task
05:25:26Soapwpyh, I assume you mean on the Sandisk Sansa?
05:25:31Soap(charging issue)
05:26:12wpyhno, I'm testing it on ipod video 5.5g
05:26:21*wpyh doesn't have a sansa :-\
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05:53:41SoapOk, three "Rockbox 3.0" thoughts which came to me while in the shower:
05:54:26Soap1 - Has any thought been put into making a press release to send to all the usual suspects (including a "Digg" button from the homepage announcement) upon the release?
05:56:05Soap2 - Has any thought been put into the idea (perhaps wrong on my part) that a 3.0 release will probably encourage much "little brother" installing (older brother installs it for his little brother) and thus a large number of people will (maybe?) introduced to Rockbox through their DAP as compared to through their web browser?
05:57:03Soap2b - Maybe add a prominent "help" menu which could point people to the web site and to:
05:57:31Soap2c - A .html / .pdf copy of the manual in the file?
05:57:50safetydanSoap: actually the link to the website is not a bad idea. Possibly the error screens could also have a "Contact rockbox" link as well?
05:58:03Soap3 - Perhaps a prominent mention of "3.0" on the bootsplash - something to visually distinguish 3.0 from SVN?
05:59:13Soap3b - Perhaps from version 3.0 forward a modification of the SVN bootsplash? Something (again) to visually distinguish and remind people of the difference between "release" and "beta"?
06:00:12SoapI guess points 2 and 3 both come down to the (wrong?) idea that Rockbox might (esp on aging iPods) get installed _for_ people instead of _by_ people.
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06:05:52ipodhow do i uninstall rockbox rite
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06:06:25Soapuninstallation instructions are in the manual
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06:13:30swears|2does anyone know of a decent album art extractor?
06:13:49swears|2meaning, takes album art from mp3 files and converts to bmp,jpg?
06:18:32scorche|shthat does really relate to rockbox...
06:21:22swears|2sure it does, rockbox doesn't see my embedded album art
06:21:34swears|2so I need to extract it to .bmp to be able to add it
06:22:12scorche|shpreparing your media for rockbox is not on-topic does not directly relate to rockbox...i would recommend google
06:24:45swears|2tried, only found itunes software
06:39:11safetydanswears|2: try the forums, I think a script has been mentioned there a few times
06:39:25swears|2ok thanks =)
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09:16:37amiconnLlorean: Ondio SP is 9KB away from the rombox limit, not 5KB
09:16:50*amiconn miscalculated this yesterday
09:19:11amiconnThe limit is 228KB for all archoses except Player (232KB there)
09:22:02JdGordoncan we use better compression to get under again?
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09:38:47*wpyh wants a vx747
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09:43:39*GodEater_ wants a boeing 747
09:44:58*JdGordon has a boeing 747
09:45:03JdGordon... plastic model
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09:56:57GodEater_JdGordon: do you really ? :)
09:57:09JdGordon1:72 scale or something :p
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10:06:28wpyhhm... turns out I was wrong
10:06:40wpyhthe disk mode of the OF gets 5.4MB/s
10:06:48wpyhwhile RB's usb stack gets 4.5 MB/s
10:07:16wpyhand the "firmware disk mode" of AppleOS gets ~12MB/s
10:07:25wpyhthat's on an ipod video 5.5g 8GB
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10:12:23GodEater_what ?
10:12:30GodEater_that's completely backwards from what I've seen
10:12:40GodEater_the OF is *waaaay* faster than disk mode
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10:12:55GodEater_although you've got yours CF modded
10:13:00wpyhsorry, maybe I got the names wrong :(
10:13:01GodEater_so maybe that makes a difference
10:13:07wpyhlet's redo that
10:13:13wpyh1. RB's usb stack: 4.5MB/s
10:13:37wpyh2. RB without usb stack, using the white background disk mode: 5.4MB/s
10:13:52wpyh3. Fully loaded OF's disk mode: ~12MB/s
10:14:04wpyhGodEater: how fast is yours?
10:14:23GodEater_wpyh: ah - that makes more sense
10:14:30GodEater_your original naming of the modes confused me
10:14:35wpyhyeah, I have trouble explaining the terms :p
10:14:51wpyhbut I've tried this CF card inside my X32
10:14:54GodEater_I've not had a RB USB stack on my ipod for a while now though
10:15:07wpyhand I get 20MB/s _write_ speed, so it can definitely be improved
10:15:19wpyhread is about 30MB/s
10:15:49wpyhGodEater: I mean, with the OF loaded?
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10:19:44pixelmajust curious, do you always copy the same data/amount and size of files?
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10:44:32pixelmapreglow: around?
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11:03:43JdGordonpreglow: not a big deal... but next time you bump the api please remember to sort the functions at the end of the sturct into their proper places
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11:13:06obostupid question time - the API version numbers are there to allow 3rd parties to host compiled .rock plugins? But AFAIK that doesn't happen?
11:13:50JdGordonalso so you can just copy the rockbox bin to update
11:13:55JdGordoninstead of the whole zip
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11:14:51obookay - guess I am just too used to unzipping new builds
11:16:48Nico_Pobo: compiled .rock plugins are against the GPL
11:17:02JdGordonno they arnt.... as long as the source is available
11:17:19bertrikobo, I wonder about that too, are there any 3rd party plugins at all?
11:17:47JdGordonwasnt one guy doing them for a short time ages ago because of the name policy?
11:18:02obobertrik: I have a vague memory of that being mentioned years ago... but I don't know of any now
11:19:00linuxstbThere were some for the H300 IIRC, but we just took the source and committed it ;)
11:19:03Nico_PJdGordon: I know, but I assumed that in obo's thought there was no source available... that's the typical scenario IMHO
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11:19:35JdGordonlinuxstb: how rude of us :p
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11:24:24peturI think binary-only rocks are possible without violating GPL if you do not use any rockbox files
11:24:53*pixelma tries to imagine a binary only rock
11:25:25peturrocks are always binary, they are there or they are not ;)
11:25:37Nico_Ppetur: isn't that a grey area? I'll admit I don't know much though
11:26:05peturNico_P: imho, that is what gpl v3 is all about...
11:26:26peturbut I'm not an expert there as well
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11:30:47SliMMmy iPod broke several days ago, so I need to buy a new player
11:31:16SliMMdo you have any recommendations?
11:32:16linuxstbYou'll need to be more specific. i.e. how much storage do you want? Do you want FM, recording, .... ?
11:32:24bertrikI get the feeling that we're going through a lot of trouble just to support external plugins that nobody seems to know about anyway
11:32:26SliMMpetur: ok, thanks
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11:32:41SliMMbertrik: I got used to the iPod, but radio would be great
11:32:43bertrikok, maybe not a _lot_ of trouble
11:33:16SliMMlinuxstb: that last one was for you, sorry
11:33:47peturbertrik: interface version checking is always good to rule out weird crashes
11:34:11linuxstbSliMM: That doesn't help much... Which ipod did you have? How much storage do you want? Do you want flash or hard disk?
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11:34:58peturhmmm that buyersguide page is missing some targets...
11:35:00SliMMlinuxstb: 30 GB + would also be great, but I need at least 15
11:35:17SliMMI guess it's hard disk
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11:35:44linuxstbThe gigabeat F is a cheap (on ebay) and popular (for Rockbox) player.
11:36:08SliMMlinuxstb: that's what I had in mind
11:36:23bertrikpetur: yes I agree on that, but we might as well use (say) the svn version number instead of having to manually increase the API version number
11:36:25SliMMlinuxstb: which other players work as well (fast) as gigabeat
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11:37:21peturbertrik: well it is nice to be able to use multiple compatible rockbox binaries with the same plugins (when testing)
11:37:26linuxstbNone really. There are various new ports in development, but none have reached the stage of official daily builds.
11:38:38SliMMlinuxstb: what about cowon iAudio x5/x5l?
11:38:49markunnot as fast
11:38:56linuxstbSliMM: I've never used one.
11:39:30GodEater_there are no targets faster than the gigabeat F currently
11:39:47SliMMis X5L fast?
11:39:53GodEater_define "fast"
11:39:57SliMMmy iPod wasn't fast at all
11:40:04SliMMGodEater_: "not lagging"
11:40:11GodEater_no, the iPod video has about the worst user experience in terms of speed
11:40:16GodEater_the X5L should be much nicer
11:40:32markunSliMM: what do you want to use your player for?
11:40:33GodEater_<caveat>I've never used one though</caveat>
11:40:47linuxstbThe X5L has a much lower resolution screen (160x128 IIRC), so the CPU can easily cope with it.
11:40:48markunSliMM: and do you know this page?
11:40:52SliMMmarkun: listening to music and perhaps radio
11:41:00markunno radio on the gigabeat
11:41:11SliMMmarkun: that's the page I'm surfing right now
11:41:11markunonly the S, but it's not fully supported yet
11:41:25markunoops, I see petur gave you the link already
11:41:34linuxstbIs there still no charging in Rockbox for the S?
11:41:36SliMMhe did :-)
11:42:31SliMMwhat's the largest MicroSD card available on the market at the moment?
11:42:48JdGordon|unimaybe 16
11:43:23 Part toed
11:43:26SliMMJdGordon|uni: hmm... ok
11:43:48SliMMJdGordon|uni: rockbox supports up to 32, right? (when it appears)
11:44:28GodEater_linuxstb: not that I'm aware of - I still have to charge in the OF
11:45:08SliMMa monochrome player is also tempting, because I am very curious about the greyscale lib
11:45:17GodEater_16GB MicroSDHC cards are the largest I've seen on sale so far, and yes, Rockbox supports up to 32GB in theory
11:45:20bertrikSliMM: to get more than 4GB you need an SDHC MicroSD card. The SDHC spec allows up to 32 GB
11:45:52linuxstbGodEater_: Also, do you know anything about the Windows version of sendfirm I saw committed to SVN? i.e. is it working well?
11:46:13 Quit JdGordon|uni (" ajax IRC Client")
11:46:16SliMMx5l or e200?
11:46:40SliMM+ 8/16 gb card
11:47:03linuxstbThe X5L doesn't take cards...
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11:47:12linuxstb(if that's what you meant...)
11:47:43SliMMlinuxstb: no, I mean which one do you think is better
11:47:52SliMMwhich one would you buy
11:48:40amiconnpetur: Binary only rocks aren't possible at all, wrt licensing
11:50:20amiconnPlugins need to use api functions in order to do anything, and the core is gpl
11:51:14 Quit JdGordon|uni (Client Quit)
11:51:31GodEater_linuxstb: windows sendfirm works beatufully
11:52:05GodEater_SliMM: why are you asking *us* which we think is better? It's your choice, not ours :)
11:52:16GodEater_pixelma: yes, that works nicely :)
11:52:32peturwell if you don't use any rockbox code to make your plugin.... is calling a function at a certain address in violation with gpl?
11:52:54SliMMwell, it is, but I have never used either, so perhaps you have some reasons for choosing one or the other
11:53:24GodEater_SliMM: perhaps we do - but perhaps they're not relevant to your choices
11:53:38GodEater_one is flash based, one is HD based - which option do you want ?
11:54:06SliMMGodEater_: they may not be relevant, but they could
11:54:20SliMMGodEater_: well, I don't really mind
11:55:27GodEater_ SliMM: if you don't really mind, then toss a coin
11:55:54GodEater_personally, I'd use neither, and would get a Gigabeat F
11:55:56SliMMGodEater_: let's go for flash
11:56:09SliMMGodEater_: but it has no radio
11:56:19GodEater_I couldn't care less
11:56:25GodEater_there's nothing on the radio I wish to listen to
11:56:27markunSliMM: or buy a Gigabeat S if you are feeling adventurous
11:56:32markunit has a radio
11:56:41markundo you want FM or also DAB?
11:56:41GodEater_markun: it does ?
11:56:44GodEater_news to me...
11:56:53markunGodEater_: oh, maybe it doesn't..
11:57:04SliMMmarkun: what is DAB?
11:57:04GodEater_I've never seen an option for the radio in the OF.
11:57:13GodEater_Digital Radio
11:57:29amiconnpetur: yes
11:57:31SliMMit doesn't ring any bells
11:57:42SliMMwhat's digital radio?
11:57:55GodEater_radio that is broadcast digitally...
11:58:03GodEater_as opposed to analogue radio, which isn't :)
11:58:17*GodEater_ recommends wikipedia for the details
11:58:22SliMMhmm, I think I know what you mean
11:58:23markunSliMM: maybe it doesn't exist in your country. Where do you live?
11:58:45*GodEater_ discovers a USB bluetooth module in a PC he just acquired
11:58:49SliMMi think there are several "digital radio" stations
11:59:04SliMMbut i've never thought of them that way
11:59:04markunonly 60GB models
11:59:15GodEater_markun: I *have* a 60GB model
11:59:23GodEater_and still never noticed it had a radio option in the OF
11:59:29SliMMmarkun: does x5l support DAB?
11:59:38GodEater_no current RB targets support DAB
11:59:50GodEater_linuxstb: does your S have a radio ?
12:00:01SliMMGodEater_: so I won't be able to listen to digital radio stations?
12:00:24GodEater_SliMM: not for a while. linuxstb is working on a DAB capable target, but it won't be ready for a while.
12:00:24pixelmathere are some D2s (port in progress) which have the hardware but it's not used by Rockbox yet
12:00:33markunSliMM: the Cowon D2 supports DAB
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12:01:02markunbut the port is still in progress
12:01:16DerPapstGodEater_: iirc mine has radio in rockbox (gigabeast 60GB)
12:02:02GodEater_wow - jhMikes implemented that already ? :)
12:02:09*GodEater_ goes fishing in his bag for his S
12:02:10SliMMhmm, my pen-radio works with all the stations around, so I suppose they are broadcasting standardly [as well]
12:03:03markunso very few
12:03:27GodEater_DerPapst: what svn are you running on your S ?
12:04:16SliMMmarkun: i won't worry about dab then :-)
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12:07:17DerPapstGodEater_: seems like i confused it with my e200 ;) 4 rockboxed targets is too much for me...
12:07:18*DerPapst hides
12:07:46homielowe /me hopes were lifted then crushed by DerPapst
12:08:08*GodEater_ prepares to string DerPapst up
12:08:40*DerPapst feels sorry...
12:10:56*GodEater_ wonders if there's a way to tell if the FM tuner is present by looking in the debug menu
12:15:04*GodEater_ takes down the gallows and apologises a lot to DerPapst.
12:15:11GodEater_there *is* a radop option in the OF.
12:15:18GodEater_I've just never noticed it before :(
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12:21:19GodEater_reception is absolutely bloody dreadful
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12:31:26wpyhthis article is very good:
12:31:49wpyhbut I get dizzy reading it
12:32:09wpyh(that was for anyone who wanted to optimize bubbles.c)
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12:41:46preglowpixelma: around now
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13:03:09 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
13:04:43pixelmapreglow: wanted to ask about the changes in the sound settings chapter, especially the bass and treble settings for the Archos players with the empty {}. The info wasn't there before so I take it as a sign to fill it out? Otherwise it's not needed at all...
13:06:32preglowi'll have a look at it again, those changes are quite old...
13:06:51pixelmaI also wondered about labelled > labeled and according to my dictionary (and linuxstb) "labeled" is American English
13:07:59preglowpixelma: so it seems, i'll fix thqt
13:08:01preglowthat too
13:08:11pixelmaalready changed it back locally
13:08:14*wpyh thinks it should be labelled (with the double l)
13:08:39preglowit should
13:08:47preglowpixelma: feel free to commit :)
13:10:54pixelmaand prepared another tiny change in the sound settings chapter (not related to the bass/treble thing) but wanted to wait whether another change is needed for the latter or not
13:11:02preglowpixelma: well, i see no reason to not fill it out unless those targets have no tone controls
13:11:14pixelmathey do
13:11:34preglowif you know the limits of them feel free to fill them in
13:11:39preglowi'd have to go look in the source code
13:11:55pixelmaok, I'll fill it out too while I'm at it. Well, I can look them up
13:12:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:13:24pixelmabut first lunch
13:13:43preglowagreed :)
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13:18:34tucozpixelma: while you are at it. do you think you can add that "set as backdrop" description to the context menu as well?
13:18:46tucozI'll fix the fm-radio screenshots tonight
13:19:07tangerinemay I ask a question about bootloader, please?
13:19:07tangerinemay I ask a question about bootloader, please?
13:19:27JdGordonyes, but only one...
13:19:39JdGordonwell.. 2 because you asked twice... and we are generous
13:20:06tangerineI follow the manual, am logged in as Admin, but B/L cannot find the iPod?
13:20:06tangerineI follow the manual, am logged in as Admin, but B/L cannot find the iPod?
13:20:21tucozecho echo
13:20:30JdGordonis it a supported ipod?
13:20:43tangerineClassic 80GB
13:20:44tangerineClassic 80GB
13:20:47JdGordonthen no
13:21:12tangerinehmm bugger, thanks :)
13:21:13tangerinehmm bugger, thanks :)
13:21:49pixelmatucoz: I'll try
13:21:53Thundercloudwtf :P
13:21:59tucozgreat :)
13:22:33*DerPapst should dink less... he sees aa few things already twice o.O
13:22:46DerPapst...and types a few things twice ^^
13:23:05pixelmayes, and can't type "drink" anymore :P
13:23:18DerPapstbleh :P
13:23:48tangerineexcuse me for the double entries, not sure why it happens
13:23:48tangerineexcuse me for the double entries, not sure why it happens
13:24:04*DerPapst wonders if he can type one single line without typo or broken grammar ;)
13:28:25tangerineWill the Classic be supported at all?
13:28:25tangerineWill the Classic be supported at all?
13:28:46DerPapstno one knows. but probably not in the near future
13:36:25tangerinethanks for you help, ciao
13:36:25tangerinethanks for you help, ciao
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14:09:47jac0b|whey PaulJam did you try that flac file I posted on here
14:12:44jac0b|wI looked at what version I was using to encode my flac's which is 1.2.1
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14:13:16jac0b|wwhich was causing the artifacts
14:14:21PaulJamjac0b|w: i'm not a develloper, so i dont think i can help you much there.
14:14:23jac0b|wI tried encoding it with 1.2.0 and in the sim it plays fine, I will trying it on my player in a few minutes here
14:15:55PaulJamit would be nice if you could open a bugreport with a (short!) example file.
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14:17:03*preglow finds he has forgotten how to update a lang file...
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14:17:28jac0b|wI think I will
14:17:52LambdaCalculus37preglow: The <dest> tags are the ones you want to edit with the new language data.
14:17:53jac0b|wis linuxstb available
14:17:54PaulJampreglow: you could use the translation page from rasher :)
14:18:14preglowno, i mean how to sync a lang file to the english one
14:18:19xqtftqxjac0b|w: Have you bean here all night?
14:18:19preglowthere's a tool for it, i think...
14:18:49jac0b|wI left last nite 10pm EST
14:18:53LambdaCalculus37preglow: There is IIRC.
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14:19:03preglowahh, genlang does that as well
14:19:19*LambdaCalculus37 smacks forehead
14:19:36LambdaCalculus37*That's* what it was!
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14:20:16xqtftqxwhat what was?
14:20:41LambdaCalculus37The tool preglow was talking about.
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14:22:40preglowis genlang buggy or what?
14:23:42preglowit seems to spit out different errors depending on order of options
14:23:46 Quit xqtftqx (" ajax IRC Client")
14:24:18preglowbah, it uses a non-standard options format
14:24:49preglow-e=english.lang, single hyphen options never take a = before the argument
14:25:03pixelmanever tried different options so couldn't know
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14:27:03preglow'none' is better than '""' when there is no string for a target, yes?
14:27:28 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:28:49pixelmayes, "" would include an empty string
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14:39:17preglowsure are a lot of "" here
14:39:50preglowespecially in dest strings, for some reason
14:40:22preglowhow i would love a higher level editor for this stuff
14:44:15preglowsomeone has actually managed to put "deprecated" as a string in a depreacted lang string
14:45:10preglowdoes the deprecated desc string need to be upper case?
14:45:30pixelmaI can only see "" in deprecated strings, voice only strings and in the voice part of strings... I think all of those have a reason although I couldn't explain the first one
14:45:47preglowyeah, LANG_RECORD_CURRENT_DIR has a deprecated placed as a string
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14:50:57*preglow wonders if we'll have a lang file cleanup before this release
14:52:16linuxstbjac0b|w: That's interesting - so it would seem that our flac decoder still has problems with the new 24-bit features in 1.2.1...
14:53:05jac0b|wI am listening to a flac encoded with 1.2.0 and it is playing fine
14:53:23linuxstbYes, that makes sense.
14:53:44jac0b|wso it seems to be that flacs in 24-bit 96khz encoded using 1.2.1 play with artifacts
14:54:06*linuxstb summons markun
14:54:13*markun appears
14:54:25jac0b|wI guess I will downgrade to 1.2.0
14:54:34linuxstbmarkun: Seems the flac fixes you committed for 1.2.1 aren't working.
14:54:40markunthat's too bad
14:54:53jac0b|wI got a file if you want to test it
14:54:55markunbut I don't have time to look into it
14:55:01linuxstbmarkun: Did you test them originally, or just commit blindly?
14:55:07LearI tested a 24-bit flac recently, using 1.2.1, and that one was fine, IIRC.
14:55:36linuxstbjac0b|w: I don't have time either at the moment...
14:55:45markunlinuxstb: blindly I think
14:56:01jac0b|wI can try it again using 1.2.1 to see if I get the artifacts
14:56:01*linuxstb goes to check if there were any more changes in ffmpeg
14:56:31jac0b|wLear: 24-bit 96khz
14:56:41LearYes. Just the one file, but...
14:56:45markunlinuxstb: does ffmpeg decode them correctly?
14:57:21linuxstbmarkun: I don't know...
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14:58:46jac0b|wLear: try this one on your player
14:58:47linuxstbThere doesn't seem to be any further commits to ffmpeg's flac decoder since those two patches by Josh Coalson...
14:59:49preglowso VOICE_ entries can use "none" for strings too, yes?
15:00:03Learjac0b|w: Ok, downloading...
15:00:35pixelmapreglow: they need to, to keep the lang file and the voice file in sync (IIUC)
15:02:01jac0b|wlinuxstb & markun maybe also try that file to see if they play ok on your players
15:03:47sdoyonCould anyone please explain briefly about the plugin buffer vs audio buffer?
15:04:06 Nick oofus is now known as oofus[away] (
15:04:14GodEater_sdoyon: what do you want to know ?
15:04:25sdoyonHow are they allocated.
15:04:32linuxstbsdoyon: The plugin buffer is a fixed size (512KB for most SWCODEC targets, 32KB for HWCODEC). This is where plugins are loaded to and run from (code and all data lives there).
15:04:47linuxstbThe audio buffer is simply all RAM that is left after everything else is allocated.
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15:05:29linuxstbThe location of the plugin buffer is fixed at the end of RAM - all plugin code is linked to execute from that fixed address. The audio buffer can move around
15:05:52sdoyonAh. Plugin buffer is fixed size... OK.
15:06:31sdoyonWhat plugins can HWCODEC run, given the size difference?
15:07:25*GodEater_ has no HWCODEC targets, so doesn't know.
15:08:14pixelmaalmost all, there is also the possibility that plugins can grab the audio buffer which e.g. chessbox does on the low-mem targets (music needs to stop then)
15:09:08pixelmaall with ports which work at the given screen size and on the CPU
15:09:37sdoyonMy interest is related to midgey's project. Trying to figure out how/where RAM is to be saved.
15:10:22pixelmavoice doesn't work anyways as long as music plays on HWCODEC
15:11:12sdoyonSure, but half the objective is about lang strings and the ability to translate them.
15:12:17sdoyonI see a couple of plugins with binsize >32K. Is the audio buffer grabbed at load time, or by the plugin itself? (Admittedly I'm checking with the wrong arch...)
15:12:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:12:56preglowpixelma: VOICE_EXT_TXT also has a stray "deprecated"
15:13:32GodEater_sdoyon: it has to be grabbed by the plugin itself
15:13:47GodEater_so I guess if the bin size is over 32kb to start off with, those won't run
15:17:22Learjac0b|w: It plays, but it is a little noisy here and there...
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15:21:20jac0b|wweird noises
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15:22:01jac0b|wLear: weird noises
15:24:29LearKind of like ticking now and then. Could it be digital clipping? Don't really know what that sounds like though.
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15:26:33jac0b|wI guess I need to record it in my soundcard input
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15:29:34preglowrecording screen still has a thing for sysfont, i see
15:29:57peturit is being converted to viewports
15:30:59preglowbut will that solve the problem of it trying to diusplay shitloads of info on one screen and really needing a small font?
15:31:37peturthe top info will be fixed, the items you can now select will become a list
15:32:39preglowthat sounds promising
15:33:00preglowplanning on having that ready for 3.0, btw?
15:33:19peturwould love to but need to find time :/
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15:35:16Strife89Okay, guys, ONCE AGAIN I am trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, that I can't make a Normal build from the Rockbox source code. I can compile a working simulator, but I ALWAYS run into problems when building a Normal build or a Manual.
15:35:27Strife89Please, just help me to figure out how to do this, and I'll stick up an entire Wiki page in return: "The Guide to Compiling for Ubuntu Newcomers". How about that? :)
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15:35:51LambdaCalculus37Strife89: Did you set your PATH up according to the wiki?
15:36:05Strife89That's where I'm stuck. :(
15:36:15Strife89Where's PATH?
15:36:34LambdaCalculus37Open a terminal and type echo $PATH. That'll show you what your PATH is.
15:37:47LambdaCalculus37Ahh, you didn't add the compilers to your PATH.
15:38:00LambdaCalculus37Type nano ~/.bashrc at the prompt.
15:38:34Strife89Okay, last line?
15:38:52LambdaCalculus37Yes. At the bottom, add "export PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/arm-elf/bin:/usr/local/m68k-elf/bin:/usr/local/sh-elf/bin" (without the quotes!)
15:39:25LambdaCalculus37Then press CTRL-X, save, and close the terminal and reopen it.
15:39:38preglowassuming compilers are in /usr/local
15:40:01Strife89Okay, done.
15:40:03mcuelenaerewill this be seen as a hack or is it ok?
15:40:31mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: did you get a chance to test FS #9006 yesterday?
15:40:51Strife89Nice! Thank you, Lambda! :)
15:41:07LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: I didn't have a chance because my brother was borrowing my PowerBook for a little while to sync his iPod with some new music.
15:43:06JdGordonwpyh: maze is good to go?
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15:48:39pondlifesdoyon: FWIW, I'm not having any of the reported crashes with the tdspeed patch....
15:48:51pondlifeWhat's preventing that being committed?
15:51:12sdoyonpondlife: err... dunno? Have had very few comments on it. Frankly I dumped it there, it's still a bit raw, but very useful to me. Some people were horrified that some of the buffering didn't use IRAM...
15:51:33pondlifeIt now uses IRAM if speed = 100%, right?
15:51:43pondlifei.e. no loss of performance unless you enable it.
15:51:59pondlifeI'm using it daily, with no problems.
15:52:05sdoyonpondlife: Right.
15:52:21sdoyonpondlife: I haven't checked on the reported crashes yet. Could be with the older version perhaps?
15:52:51pondlifeI reckon there's no downside to including it, aside from the extra code. But probably needs testing on E200 more.
15:53:08pondlifeThe old version didn't crash either, here.
15:53:10sdoyonI use it on e200 every day, but with no fancy effects.
15:53:27sdoyonWell come to think of it, the change shouldn't have fixed anything.
15:53:54sdoyonI have no objections to committing it if it's wanted.
15:54:23pondlifeI think it's a great feature for audio books
15:54:28pondlifeAnd podcasts
15:54:39pondlifeBut I'm particularly impatient.. ;)
15:55:18pondlife was a request for it, don't know if you saw that.
15:55:48sdoyonOh? I must admit I don't read the forums much.
15:56:04pondlifeMe neither, but I noticed the subject line...
15:57:02sdoyonAh yes. Well it's been a feature request load of times too.
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15:57:21sdoyonWould any of the DSP gurus say it's OK to commit as is?
15:58:14pondlifeAs long as it doesn't affect stuff when it's disabled, I can't see a major objection... it's more likely to get improved then too.
15:58:38pondlifei.e. It doesn't change either IRAM usage, or sound quality when not in use.
15:59:28sdoyonA bit of RAM usage for the alternate buffers I guess. Le me see how much.
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16:02:26sdoyonHmm about 80K I think.
16:03:20bertrikIf i go to the status bar in the status/scroll bar settings in the LCD display settings menu, going back without making a change still shows "cancelled", is this intentional?
16:04:00bertrikHardly any other setting behaves like this, except for the settings in the voice setting menu.
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16:07:08SynthFanomi made a few dumps of sansa v2 firmware , text dumps everything exept pictures can that be useful to devs?
16:09:47sdoyonpondlife: jhMikeS annd preglow both commented on that task. Perhaps get their opinion? I have the impression I'll get bashed if I just commit this.
16:10:07pondlifeGood idea
16:11:10sdoyonpondlife: what's up with speaking current time in info screen? Did you try my patch?
16:11:16pondlifeNo, sorry
16:11:22pondlifeNot had time (so to speak)
16:11:36SynthFanomactually i've did ascii rips outta the e series v2 sansa update firmware , leaving graphics behind is that something to commit?
16:12:20PaulJambertrik: it seems there is something wrong with this setting. i just did what you described and now the main viewport in the WPS seems to have moved down by the statusbar height.
16:12:26sdoyonpondlife: Know what you mean. This morning is special for me: my first >3hours off for myself since a while ;-).
16:12:45pondlifehehe, I dream of such a day
16:13:10bertrikPaulJam: ah I had noticed that once, but could never reproduce it again
16:13:43bertrikPaulJam: it may a separate issue though
16:13:57sdoyonpondlife: Anyway that patch is attached to your task. Let me know...
16:14:01wpyhJdGordon: you there?
16:14:10pondlifeWill do, eventually...
16:14:15JdGordonyou better not say i need to revert :D
16:14:30PaulJambertrik: probably, maybe JdGordon knows what is going on there.
16:15:02wpyhJdGordon: you committed it?
16:15:04wpyhlet me check
16:15:24JdGordonbertrik: hmm... no, it shouldnt say anything
16:15:32*JdGordon goes to check
16:16:03bertrikJdGordon: I think the "cancelled" is caused by the F_TEMPVAR settings attribute, set in settings_list.c line 471
16:16:52 Quit MethoS_ (Connection timed out)
16:17:24JdGordonoh right... yes.. then it is meant to happen
16:17:49JdGordonexcept is the logic wrong?
16:18:11wpyhJdGordon: I noticed the yield() at the end is missing
16:18:11JdGordonno, its right...
16:18:20JdGordonwpyh: i removed it.. its not needed
16:18:27JdGordonthe button call does that
16:18:35wpyhoh, ok
16:18:36wpyhthanks :)
16:18:45*wpyh thought it was necessary
16:19:01JdGordonno... the button call is blocking
16:19:08JdGordonits needed if its not blocking
16:19:27JdGordonbertrik: it should only show the splash if the value was changed but cancel was pressed
16:19:29wpyhi see :)
16:21:19JdGordonbertrik: ah, I see what your saying... yeah should be fixed
16:22:21*pixelma wonders if the maze controls work fully on all keypads
16:23:40bertrikJdGordon: shall I submit a bug report?
16:23:58JdGordonno point... commiting a fix now
16:24:12bertrikok, that's why I asked :)
16:24:39jac0b|wLear: I d/l'ed that file and all the pops and hisses are the noise I am talking about
16:25:00bertrikI mean, not to push you to fix it immediately, but to prevent an unnecessary tracker entry
16:25:48JdGordonno worries.. I like quick fixes
16:26:10jac0b|wLear: is that waht you heard a bunch of pops and hisses?
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16:28:36Learjac0b|w: Not really. Didn't listen to all of it though.
16:28:54jac0b|wat least up to around 1:20
16:29:52linuxstbLear: Do you have a recent version of ffmpeg/mplayer handy to test that flac file?
16:29:53wpyhpixelma: I wonder...
16:30:31jac0b|wI tested using the flac test not ffmpeg
16:30:55Learlinuxstb: Maybe if I could get it played via ffdshow... Played it in Foobar though.
16:31:55linuxstbI would expect foobar to be using libFLAC though.
16:32:09jac0b|wLear: it played fine in foobar right
16:32:35jac0b|wbut on the player or sim you get pops and hisses
16:33:27JdGordonsdoyon: your turn :p
16:37:22mcuelenaereis there some kind of general NAND ID array in Rockbox somewhere? (AFAICT these are separated into each ata-nand-* driver and could benefit of centralisation)
16:37:28sdoyonJdGordon: Coming up. (You scared me for a minute I thought you meant red).
16:37:38JdGordonhehe no :)
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16:39:36bertrikmcuelenaere: no idea, but have you ever looked at CFI (common flash interface)? It's a mechanism implemented by a lot of flash chips to query the geometry of a flash chip directly (among other things) instead of looking it up in a table by ID
16:40:18maffeRockbox skips an MP3 file which is larger than 2 GB :(
16:40:39maffeoriginal X5 firmware plays it
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16:41:54mcuelenaerebertrik: no, I'll take a look
16:43:30 Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("This computer has gone to sleep")
16:43:42*wpyh wonders what mp3 file could be that huge
16:45:48 Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
16:47:11maffewpyh: recorded the top 517 part of a top 750 radio show
16:47:17maffe40 hours
16:47:26jac0b|wokay I got a file of what I hear when I play the file on my player or sim check this out
16:47:57jac0b|wall those pops/noises is not supposed to be there
16:49:18jac0b|wLear: tell if that is what you hear when you play the song
16:50:03LearSounds worse in the sim, with some hissing, yes. More subtle on my e200...
16:50:16LambdaCalculus37maffe: So why not run the MP3 file through an audio editor, and snip it apart into more manageable chunks?
16:50:27LambdaCalculus37Then you'll have files that Rockbox can play.
16:50:47maffethat's what I plan to do since 2001
16:51:01*wpyh thinks the implementation of bubbles is overly simplistic
16:51:26jac0b|wbut if you play the original in foobar or some other player it plays fine it seems to be something with rb
16:51:32*preglow thinks more of our enable settings should be "on/off", not "yes/no"
16:51:34preglowanyone for?
16:51:43*LambdaCalculus37 raises his hand
16:51:46wpyhpreglow: count me in
16:51:58*wpyh is slow
16:52:23LambdaCalculus37Two so far...
16:52:41*bertrik hadn't noticed that as a problem yet
16:52:51jac0b|wI guess I will have to re-encode these files using flac 1.2.0
16:52:59preglowit's not a problem, it just seems weird to say yes/no instead of on/off
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16:56:07maffeI wonder if large files in other formats would fail, too
16:56:23maffe2 GB WAV would be not _that_ long
16:56:34maffe(the MP3 is only 128 kbps)
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16:57:14LambdaCalculus37maffe: Still, why not try snipping it apart? It certainly wouldn't hurt. ;)
16:57:23LambdaCalculus37And keep the larger 2GB file aside somewhere.
16:57:41maffecutting MP3 sucks
16:57:59maffeat least when using the bit reservoir
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16:58:36LambdaCalculus37Strife89: Is the compiler working now?
16:58:45Strife89Yep. Thank you. :)
16:59:03Strife89Is it possible to buld the manual as a .txt file?
16:59:50LambdaCalculus37IIRC only PDF and HTML for now.
17:00:18Strife89Okay. :)
17:00:58Strife89I figured it would be helpful to have the manual on my device. :D
17:01:58*LambdaCalculus37 thinks a lynx-like HTML viewer would be good for Rockbox
17:02:18*pondlife would prefer a PDF viewer..
17:02:28Bensawsomehey guys im trying to fix all the old themes i have since most of them were broken by the new theme format and I found the thread on them and it says "%P and %m have been removed" so does that mean I just delete those lines from the .wps files?
17:02:29scorche|shhtml is awfully tough to render...especially for mobile targets =/
17:02:39Strife89Yeah, but with the images? Especially on a small screen like the Sansa c200s........
17:02:56LambdaCalculus37scorche|sh: That's why I said "lynx-like HTML viewer". ;)
17:03:02pondlifeI'm thinking of stuff like bus and train maps... PDF images.. ;)
17:03:17pondlifeI can do text already.
17:03:28pondlifeFor now I use JPGs
17:04:08Strife89Has anyone ever thought about that, though? Including the manual in the daily builds as a .txt?
17:04:09mcuelenaerebertrik: do you know if Samsung even implement CFI in their chips?
17:04:34scorche|shStrife89: yes
17:04:40bertrikmcuelenaere: no, i'd have to look it up in the datasheet
17:04:59*pondlife spots
17:05:08pondlifeGPL v2 though.
17:05:19LambdaCalculus37pondlife: Strictly GPLv2?
17:05:24mcuelenaereI don't think so..
17:05:52pondlifeCould a GPL v2 plugin be legal even if the rest of Rockbox is v2 or later?
17:06:19bertrikmcuelenaere: hmm, the wiki page mentions it's a standard developed by amd, intel, sharp and fujitsu, no mention of samsung :(
17:09:20mcuelenaerebertrik: as most DAP designers use Samsung, Hynix, ... and no AMD, Intel, Sharp or Fujitsu (AFAIK) CFI isn't an option then :(
17:09:45bertrikIt doesn't say that samsung does not implement it
17:10:58LambdaCalculus37pondlife: Dunno if this may help clear it up.
17:11:25bertrikmcuelenaere: I'll try to look it up in the datasheet
17:12:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:13:00mcuelenaerebertrik: I have one here and there's no mentioning of it
17:13:09bertrikmcuelenaere: no mention of it indeed, sorry for the diversion
17:13:25mcuelenaere+ I tried sending those commands to the chip and didn't get the wanted results
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17:24:48amiconnGodEater_, sdoyon: There are plugins which are >32KB on archos, and they do work. However, the .rock cannot be larger than 32KB
17:25:12amiconnThose special plugins have a tiny. rock as their loader, loading the main blob into the audio buffer after grabbing it
17:25:27GodEater_amiconn: which ones are they ?
17:25:51scorche|shpondlife: yes...just if rockboc ever went v3 or later the plugin would have to be dropped/rewritten
17:25:59amiconnThis is currently used for chessbox, rockboy, and zxbox
17:26:19sdoyonDecided at build time? Waw.
17:26:56amiconnThe main binary uses the extension .ovl in these cases (although it's not technically an overlay)
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17:27:30linuxstbamiconn: What address are the overlays loaded to?
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17:28:16amiconnDepends on the plugin. The address is fixed and decided at build time, usually end_of_audio_buffer - plugin_size_including_bss - some_margin
17:28:27amiconnAll those have their own .lds file for archos
17:28:37saratogaI'm getting a "make[1]: *** No rule to make target `SDL.h', needed by `/home/mike/rockbox/current/motosource/test2/comsim/lcd-common.o'. Stop. " error trying to link against SDL
17:28:54saratogaeven though SDL.h is in the include path in my makefile
17:29:17saratogaI don't understand why its trying to make an h file though
17:29:22saratogashouldn't those just be included
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17:30:26sdoyonamiconn: where's the code that does this? If we tweak plugin loading for plugin languages, we'll need to keep this in mind.
17:31:29linuxstbsaratoga: That means that a dependency has been created on 'SDL.h', and "make" can't find that file. Normally the dependencies would include the full path, so maybe that's the issue.
17:32:21linuxstbsaratoga: You could try changing "SDL.h" to <SDL.h>
17:32:25linuxstb(in lcd-sdl.h)
17:33:31saratogalinuxstb: thanks, that gives me an idea
17:34:37saratogalinuxstb: also someone came into IRC a week or two back with a WMA file that had 15 chunks per packet and thus couldn't decode correctly in the rockbox ASF parser
17:34:59saratogausing the old libasf one I could fix it just by changing a #define but I didn't see anything similar in rockbox
17:36:23linuxstbI've forgotton the details, but maybe that means the total size of the packet content is > 32KB, which may be a limitation of our parser.... I would need to look at the code again though. Do you have a link to the file?
17:37:23linuxstbDoes the Rockbox parser give any DEBUGF messages with that file?
17:38:33saratogaI believe it printed a message, which is how I figured out that it had too many pieces to the packet
17:42:33 Quit avis ("if you could step inside me...")
17:43:17saratogalinuxstb: "could not read packet (requested 3200 bytes, received 3186) "
17:43:58linuxstbOK, I'll have a look - see if I can remember what ASF files look like...
17:44:41saratogathe comment by that error indicates that this is the 32KB limit now that i look at it
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17:49:46wpyhfor calculating the distance of the center of a bubble to the trajectory of the moving bubble, use this: and this:
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18:00:09saratogaI'm now having some more trouble linking, I get an error in the assembler:
18:00:12saratoga"/tmp/ccYd84By.s:131: Error: undefined symbol `_GLOBAL_OFFSET_TABLE_' in operation"
18:01:49saratogai thought rockbox is statically linked, so I wouldn't need an offset table, but i'm pretty far over my head here
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18:18:13saratogahmm seems to be a problem with the -fPIC option on ARM
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18:26:42Johan__anybody here?
18:26:51LambdaCalculus37133 of us. Got a question?
18:27:00Johan__hehe :)
18:27:03 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
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18:27:16Johan__I was thinking of offering my help on the project
18:28:04LambdaCalculus37Help is always good! What would you like to help contribute?
18:28:28Johan__i could provide coffe ^^
18:28:45Johan__i'm a developer and was thinking that maybe you need help with developing
18:29:59LambdaCalculus37Johan__: Check out the wiki on the site. There's tons of pages and information for you to check out there.
18:30:21domonokyJohan__: we always need help, is there any specific part you are interested in ?
18:31:06Johan__nope not interested in anything particular, just want to increase productivity, im tired of not being able to use basic functionality such as play by genre
18:32:07domonokyplaying a specifc genre should be possible with the database i think... :-)
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18:32:45Johan__wait, is this like a general channel for rockbox?
18:32:59Johan__i'm talking about meizu m6 rockbox
18:33:02scorche|shthere is only one channel for rockbox
18:33:17Johan__hmmm maybe i've logged into the wrong channel... doooh? ^^
18:33:48scorche|shdoesnt seem like it..
18:34:02domonoky/this is the rockbox channel for development/support and other strong rockbox related things... there is also #rockbox-community for offtopic talk.. :-)
18:34:09markunJohan__: hi
18:34:19markunI guess I'm mister Meizu, altough not very active.
18:34:43Johan__yeah i think i saw your nickname on the progress for the driver or something
18:35:01markunFirst thing it to get some code running on our player. Do you have any experience with embedded programming?
18:35:05scorche|shthere is a lot more than one driver ;)
18:35:32Johan__can i be missus meizu?:P
18:36:13Johan__the term doesn't ring a bell so i guess no..
18:37:45LambdaCalculus37Johan__: A crash course:
18:38:08Johan__been developing in c,c++,c# and assembly
18:38:14Johan__thank you i will read it
18:38:37LambdaCalculus37C and assembly are perfect. Rockbox uses both. Although much more C than assembly... ;)
18:38:45domonokyJohan__: rockbox is coded in c and ASM so you should be fine :-)
18:39:03Johan__wonder why i don't recognize the embedded systems terminology
18:45:49Johan__so what do i do after reading the crash course? do i sign up somewhere or how is it done?
18:46:29LambdaCalculus37It's done. We're a community, so just come in, say hello, download the source code, and ask yourself, "Hmmm, what should I work on today?"
18:46:41Johan__^^ nice
18:47:18LambdaCalculus37Basically, everyone works on what they're interested. We're a "team" in the loosest sense of the word.
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18:47:55Johan__but perhaps there is something on the meizu project that has higher priority
18:48:42LambdaCalculus37Johan__: There's a skeleton of a Meizu port in the source code.
18:48:57LambdaCalculus37So a lot of stuff for it needs working on. Anything you want to work on... go for it.
18:49:04markunnand driver
18:49:11markunfor example
18:49:16markunJohan__: do you have the datasheets?
18:49:34markunif you go to you should be able to find them
18:49:41LambdaCalculus37Johan__: Also, check this page out, too:
18:49:45 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:49:58Johan__thank you for the links!
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19:10:03amiconnWhoa, reed delta raid :\
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19:13:59pondlifeThat's quite some red, yes...
19:14:41*pondlife thinks that a global HAVE_VOICE might be useful...
19:15:11amiconnUh? why that?
19:15:16pixelmaand then people complain about ifdef hell... ;)
19:15:20scorche|sherm...didnt i volunteer for that, forget about that, remember it, and then get shot down?
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19:15:56pondlifeI was just thinking that an Archos would benefit somewhat from the freed RAM if you don't use voice.
19:16:17amiconnWhat freed ram?
19:16:48pondlifeRemoval of the voice code (and buffers?)
19:16:52amiconnJust the code isn't that much when concerning am
19:17:40amiconnOn archos, the voice file is loaded into the audio buffer, and flushed when playback starts
19:17:54amiconnYou can't have voice and playback at the same time anyway
19:18:16amiconnNo other buffers involved
19:19:08amiconnI'm more concerned about code size because of the size limits, both for flashable size and for loading from disk (with the archos loader)
19:19:25scorche|shi wonder how much it would cut from binsize...
19:19:35pondlifeYes, that's what I meant.
19:19:42amiconnBut I don't like removing features for saving code size
19:19:54amiconn(and voice is an important feature imo)
19:21:19amiconnImho it would be better to search for possible savings in the code itself
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19:22:13amiconnEven though I don't use the database apart from testing and occasionally to check for dupes and mis-tagging, I don't remove the db from my builds
19:23:13*bertrik couldn't stop himself from implementing a c200 display enable/disable
19:23:31bertrikanyone here who can measure battery current on a c200?
19:24:38saratogabertrik: if needed i can probably do it this week
19:25:07saratogathough i'm not exactly sure how to wire that up . . .
19:25:31amiconnbertrik: Perform 2 runtime tests...
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19:25:38saratogawhat is the "__MINGW32__" define used for?
19:25:40bertrikI have no idea how much is saved by actually turning the display off and putting the controller in standby, but as far as I can tell it has no side effects
19:25:55saratogadon't we already do that
19:26:12bertrikno, on c200, only the backlight is turned off, the display remains fully powered
19:26:13pixelmaon some targets
19:26:27saratogaah misread that as e200
19:26:31amiconnNot all targets have that yet
19:26:41saratogawe do turn the display off there
19:27:00pixelmasaratoga: I'd _guess_ for crosscompiled sims
19:27:12amiconnImo all colour targets with picth-black type lcds should get that implemented
19:27:15domonokysaratoga: this define is true when compiling with mingw, so its used for mingw specifc things..
19:27:36saratogaany idea if it should be on when using mingw for wince?
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19:29:19amiconnSome could also profit from a bit of cleanup (imo the lcd poweroff timeout on X5 is overkill)
19:29:26bertrikamiconn: If you shine (for example) a flashlight on the c200 display when it's off you can still see the contents, so not really pitch black, but too dark to be readable normally
19:30:22amiconnThat counts as pitch-black. The others are readable in normal ambient light (afaik iPod Video and Nano are the only ones so far)
19:30:55pixelmaI remember linuxstb insists that this is valid for the Ipod Photo/Colour too
19:31:08pixelmaso all colour display Ipods
19:31:45LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Actually, the iPod photo/color is very easy to read even with the backlight off.
19:31:54amiconnThe ipod Photo/Color LCD looks very black on product photos. Maybe only the Color has the readable type, and the (older) Photo doesn't?
19:32:28LambdaCalculus37I can see the screen on mine very easily even with the backlight off.
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20:02:55Strife89Er.... How does one create a new Wiki page?
20:03:15bluebrotherjust browse to a nonexistant page
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20:05:09bluebrotherStrife89: not sure if you caught my last sentence: just browse to a nonexistant wiki page.
20:05:21Strife89Alright, thank you.
20:07:07Strife89Hm. I'm a little unsure about what parent I should put this under. (This is a guide to compiling for Linux newbies. :) )
20:08:27Strife89Could someone make a suggestion? Or should I orphan it?
20:08:53LambdaCalculus37There's already the SimpleGuideToCompiling wiki page. Why not just add the information onto that page?
20:09:23Strife89The guide assumes Windows is the user's OS.
20:10:29Strife89I mean, SimpleGuideToCompiling does.
20:11:33LambdaCalculus37Hmmm... LinuxSimpleGuideToCompiling, then?
20:11:48Strife89Pretty much.
20:15:00Strife89Would someone mind reading it? They could point out errors..... :)
20:16:35*amiconn would think that linux users normally wouldn't need that type of guide...
20:16:47LambdaCalculus37amiconn: He wrote it for Linux newcomers.
20:17:06*bluebrother wondered if it makes sense splitting up the old page −− using vmware is linux ...
20:17:21 Join neddy [0] (n=john@nat/sun/x-ffc0c2debfa5c52d)
20:17:36Strife89Yeah, but you don't have to work with PATH in VMWare, apparently.
20:17:38bertrikStrife89: fixed some spelling errors
20:17:46Strife89Okay, thanks. :)
20:19:06tucozbluebrother: what do you think about moving the menu structure from the quick start to the appendix?
20:19:19Strife89bluebrother: I also give a few general Linux tips in the guide:
20:19:19Strife89(mkdir means "make directory")
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20:19:36tucozbluebrother: the "might be there" menu structure that is
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20:19:57bluebrothertucoz: good idea. That might be there structure is sitting there for too long now ;-)
20:20:07bluebrotherand it's not really that necessary.
20:20:20tucozno. not now that we have a root menu
20:20:38bertriksomeone who doesn't know what cd or mkdir is, is going to run into a lot more questions when compiling I think
20:20:40bluebrotherwhat root menu?
20:20:50tucozthe main menu
20:21:25tucozi remember it was called root menu when it was placed in the root so-to-speak
20:21:40*bluebrother waves his "we have a main menu" flag
20:21:57Strife89bertrik: Like me, for instance? :)
20:22:16bluebrotheryeah, during development. But as it doesn't really consistently behave like a root menu ... ;-)
20:23:09PaulJam_Strife89: don't you think you should at least mention the need for crosscompilers?
20:23:35tucozwhen i add a file, do i add svn keywords to that then, and in that case what do they look like?
20:24:01Strife89[slaps forehead] Yeah, I'll add that.
20:24:24bluebrothersvn pset svn:mime-type application/octet-stream binaryfile.something
20:24:36tucozit's a text file
20:25:05bluebrotheryou can set any property that way. For text files you don't need to explicitly set the mime-type (but you can do so)
20:25:06tucozor rather, tex-file. i was thinking about that $Id stuff
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20:25:23tucozis that automatically added to the file?
20:25:59bluebrotherso I guess you'd more interested in svn pset svn:keywords "Author Date Id Revision" myfile.tex
20:26:25bluebrotheror, to address your question more directly: no, you need to set svn:keywords for that to work.
20:27:11tucozthanks! :)
20:27:37bluebrotheryou're welcome
20:27:38bertrikAbout the sansa c200 lcd disable/enable, I'll post a patch so you can try it out. I think I do see a little more flicker when the display is turned back on.
20:28:06*amiconn always learns something new...
20:28:16 Quit saratoga (" ajax IRC Client")
20:28:27amiconnI didn't know about the short forms of svn propset/propget so far...
20:29:10bluebrothertucoz: svn plist lists all keywords that have been set. Might be useful to check files ...
20:29:51tucozyeah. cool
20:30:01amiconnRegaridng the root^h^h^h^hmain menu, another reason not to call it root menu is to avoid confusion with the file system root (a concept that seems to be hard to understand at least for a few users)
20:30:40tucozyes. main menu is better. i was simply referring to what it was called while still under development.
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21:12:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:21:49pixelmacould someone help me out with the phrasing of a short sentence in the manual? I'd like to reference the "Loading Backdrops" chapter from the "Set As Backdrop" item, something about how the images need to be...
21:22:10*LambdaCalculus37 volunteers
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21:24:11LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Can you pastebin what it is you want to have rephrased?
21:25:00pixelmathe details are already in "Loading Backdrops" which is why I just want to reference it to not repeat information
21:25:31pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: that would probably be an empty paste... I'm a bit out of ideas currently
21:26:57pixelmajust something like "The images need to follow the rules as explained in ..." . I don't like the "follow the rules" part
21:27:05LambdaCalculus37pixelma: I'll take a look at the manual, and will pastebin some text.
21:27:08 Quit Battousai ("Shutting down.")
21:27:41pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: there is no "Set As Backdrop" yet
21:28:39LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Hmmm... thinking....
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21:30:01pixelmato comply with (with what though)?
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21:30:54stockholmi read the harddisk overview on the website, thats why i am here
21:31:24stockholmi would need zif40 harddisks with 5mm highth
21:31:46stockholmbut i have a problem finding any
21:31:49LambdaCalculus37Hit eBay?
21:31:54stockholmdid that
21:32:02stockholmnothing there
21:32:06stockholmwhat is that?
21:32:25LambdaCalculus37iPod repair site, but they have 80GB 5mm hard drives available.
21:33:27*LambdaCalculus37 directs stockholm to a slingshot marked "Google", and then shoots him towards
21:33:42stockholmi found the website
21:33:53 Join bertrik_ [0] (
21:34:04LambdaCalculus37It's pricey but worth it.
21:34:44 Quit bertrik ("bye")
21:35:07LambdaCalculus37pixelma: "Use to set a .bmp file as a backdrop. Be certain that the bitmap is the correct size for your DAP!"
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21:36:50*LambdaCalculus37 thought of a quick, simple way to describe it
21:36:53pixelmahmm... correct size is not the only thing and it already is explained in the "Loading Backdrops" chapter
21:37:14pixelmawhich is why I'd just like to reference it
21:38:57LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Could you added "Refer to chapter 11.1.6. for information about your DAP's resolution" to the end?
21:40:01pixelmathe reference itself is not the problem, seems I can't even explain it here :\
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21:43:02pixelmaI could always use something like "see chapter blah for more details" there, just wanted to be a tad bit more descriptive with a hint that the images need to meet some conditions
21:43:18 Join Genre9mp3 [0] (i=58da3a91@rockbox/contributor/Genre9mp3)
21:43:20pixelmaor criteria
21:43:34LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Yes, that would be good, actually.
21:45:00pixelmaand then the sentence would be "The images need to meet the conditions explained in chapter blah" (?)
21:46:18LambdaCalculus37pixelma: That's the best way to explain it.
21:47:31mcuelenaereshotofadds: what do you think of the idea of using a generic NAND ID resolver for identifying flash chips across several targets in Rockbox? (see firmware/drivers/nand_id.c)
21:47:38pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: alright, thanks for working that out with me :)
21:48:13LambdaCalculus37No problem. :)
21:50:52tucozHmm. FS #7816 looks like the way to go if we want a menu structure in the manual
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21:51:57pixelmahow does that deal with the target (or feature) specific things?
21:52:01tucozquestion is if we _really_ want that.
21:53:28bluebrothertucoz: I looked at that patch a while ago. Looks too complicated to me (especially this collecting information)
21:53:54tucozyes, it's cool though that it uses rockbox source code to extract settings
21:54:04tucozor did i misunderstand that?
21:54:08bluebrotherindeed. But who can maintain this script?
21:54:19shotofaddsmcuelenaere: I'd thought of doing something similar with the NAND ids, but you got there first :) I've just changed the telechips driver over to using it, seems to work fine with my d2 and m200 btw.
21:54:27tucozexactly my thought. that will be a pain
21:55:13 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (" ajax IRC Client")
21:55:55mcuelenaereshotofadds: thanks, I haven't tested it yet :)
21:57:48*tucoz plays with his new cowon d2
21:58:39*shotofadds is always glad to see more d2s around here. hopefully you won't be too disappointed with the current state of rockbox :(
21:58:50pixelmatucoz: I only see menu trees for each single target. Is there something to opt out e.g. the recording items in the menu etc.?
21:58:52 Part Strife89
21:59:22tucozpixelma: to be honest. i haven't looked that closely.
22:00:12tucozmy initial thought was that it is a great idea to extract the menu from the rockbox sources. however, it will be hard to maintain the script that do that
22:01:25tucozshotofadds: i'll wait with rockboxing the d2 to after my vacation.
22:03:48 Quit sitwon (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:04:52bluebrothershotofadds: maybe ubifs is interesting in terms of the D2?
22:05:01bluebrotherjust read about it the other day ...
22:07:11pixelmatucoz: the page gives a nice overview though
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22:08:56 Part Genre9mp3
22:09:38tucozpixelma: i agree
22:15:24*bertrik_ is surprised by the complexity of tuning the lv24020 radio chip
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22:16:13shotofaddsbluebrother: yes, that's dealing with precisely the same issues we have. But to use something like that would mean breaking the ability to dual-boot with the OF, and for me that's a deal-breaker...
22:16:57shotofaddsbertrik: yes, I got scared away by that. the d2's radio can wait :/
22:17:24shotofaddsthe rather large magic number in that driver is somewhat bizarre
22:17:47bertrikmagic number?
22:18:23bertrikI started looking into it after reading FS #9196, you mean the magic number mentioned there?
22:19:04shotofaddsbertrik: lv24020lp.c line445: 0x81d1a47efc5cb700ull
22:19:23 Part stockholm
22:20:28 Part tucoz ("Ex-Chat")
22:26:57scorche|shshotofadds: the X5 port was released (and has lasted quite a long time) without dual-boot...
22:28:44pixelmareleased? :)
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22:30:21scorche|sh"marked as supported"? =P
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22:31:45pixelmasupported? ;)
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22:38:26scorche|shpixelma: i was waiting for you to say that (note the "=P") ;)
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22:45:08bertrikshotofadds, do you happen to know if the lv radio chip gets a reference frequency from somewhere (e.g. the CPU) ?
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22:45:51bertrikif so, we could do much more accurate frequency measurements
22:46:23votetrevdoes anyone in here use the rockbox utility?
22:46:36bertrikvotetrev, yes I've used it
22:46:46votetrevdoes the install themes button work?
22:47:02votetreveverytime i use it it says the following error occured: no themes foud
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22:48:39mcuelenaerevotetrev: iPod Video?
22:48:47votetrevyes 30gb video 5.5g
22:49:03mcuelenaerevotetrev: the theme downloads are currently disabled because of bandwidth limitations
22:49:09votetrevthank you sir :)
22:49:16votetrevguess ill look at how to do it manually :)
22:49:17mcuelenaereit is a known problem :)
22:49:24votetrevthats a bummer
22:49:25votetrevoh well
22:49:29votetrevthis is a damn nice utility
22:49:45votetrevi got my 5.5g when rockbox first came out and i HAD to do it manually then
22:50:11votetrevlooks to be improved a LOT since ive last used the firmware
22:50:54votetrevdo you know if there is an easy way to speed up audio...for instance i listen to recorded audio to learn material...i want to listen to this at this possible through rockbox?
22:51:22massiveHwell, you can change the pitch
22:51:28scorche|shyou can if you dont mind changing the pitch
22:51:54votetrevi dont mind the pitch
22:51:59votetrevits the information not the quality of the voice so much
22:52:46massiveHvotetrev, hold down the center button during playback, and does "pitch" show up in that menu?
22:52:49scorche|shthen just use the pitch setting
22:54:27votetrevim checking now massiveH
22:55:57 Part SynthFanom
22:59:34votetrevpitch does show up in that menu
22:59:54massiveHadjust that, and there you go
23:04:09shotofaddsscorche|sh: yeah but the D2 OF has a considerable number of features which we won't have for a very long time (MPEG4, DAB, etc, etc). I doubt even I'd install Rockbox if I lost those...
23:05:09shotofaddsbertrik: I haven't really looked at the LV chip beyond checking that the driver can communicate with it. That's a job another day...
23:05:25Lloreanshotofadds: Why does MPEG4 matter?
23:05:26shotofadds*for another day
23:07:19shotofaddsLlorean: because Rockbox is supposed to be a 'complete' firmware replacement?
23:07:37 Quit m0f0x ()
23:07:54Lloreanshotofadds: Of hardware features. Not "complete" in terms of software features
23:08:08LloreanOtherwise we'd have "random" playback, etc, etc.
23:08:18LloreanWe play video, of an approximately comparable quality.
23:08:38LloreanBut you said you wouldn't install Rockbox if you lost MPEG4, so I was curious what about it was worth mentioning.
23:09:34shotofaddsLlorean: i see what you mean wrt. hardware features. MPEG4 is not a huge loss to me (it might be to others tho). specifically, the loss of DAB would be a killer.
23:09:41 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:10:08Lloreanshotofadds: That's why I didn't mention DAB, that's a hardware feature. :)
23:11:28shotofaddshehe :) Personally I think dual-boot is something we really should aim to keep, that's all.
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23:13:09LloreanI think if the question is "Rockbox being able to use the internal flash" vs "Dual boot", I'd go for the first one, though.
23:13:10shotofaddsI think the simple reason is that the Cowon firmware is "good enough". I'm not sure what Rockbox adds that would warrant people deciding to ditch those OF in favour of us, outside of a few specific cases.
23:13:24shotofadds*OF features
23:13:44shotofaddsbig plusses like voice UI don't really count due to the touchscreen, imho
23:13:54LloreanRockbox isn't intended as a supplement, whether the OF is good enough or not, though. Decisions shouldn't be based on keeping the OF working, it should just be a goal if it comes without additional cost.
23:14:10pixelmashotofadds: the X5 OF has one important feature that is not supported by Rockbox too - USB otg
23:14:33shotofaddsout of interest, what's the reason the X5 can't dual boot?
23:15:29LloreanThe original dual boot patch could be broken by changing OF versions.
23:15:44 Quit petur ("Zzzz")
23:16:01pixelmaI guess it could now but no-one with the right knowledge reviewed the new patch yet it seems
23:16:04LloreanEventually there was a new one, but by the time it came out everyone was either using an unsupported bootloader, or acclimatized to the supported method of no-dual-boot, so not much real testing and effort to commit it has happened.
23:18:23shotofaddsLlorean: of course, Rockbox is a "firmware replacement" and lack of dual boot should be considered.
23:18:59shotofaddsBut even if we did that, simply ditching the Telechips NAND scheme and using a well-defined scheme isn't enough - we'd lose the current state of wear-levelling, bad blocks, etc. We'd need to understand those, and by that point we might as well just stick to the original scheme...
23:20:29Lloreanshotofadds: If the wear really is "levelled", a change in schemes shouldn't hurt a lot, given that it's not an explicit number of writes that will result in a failure anyway.
23:22:07shotofaddspossibly. that's all I'll say :p
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23:34:41Seldaekhmm, how do I read video files ?
23:34:52SeldaekI tried to play an mp4 file I just transcoded
23:34:56Seldaekbut it kinda hangs there
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23:35:07Seldaek(gigabeat F20)
23:36:28 Quit mcuelenaere ()
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23:39:05LloreanSeldaek: Rockbox doesn't play MP4 files.
23:39:15LloreanDid you read the instructions for video conversion?
23:39:19Seldaekoh shit
23:40:27Seldaekyeah well, I tried WinFF yesterday but it failed so I used mediacoder now, and it did mp4 by itself, I forgot to check that..
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23:48:47SeldaekLlorean: okay, it's running now, we'll see, thanks
23:48:56Seldaekrunning I mean.. re-transcoding
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23:50:30*bluebrother discovers
23:50:36 Quit massiveH ("Leaving")
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23:56:15Lloreanbluebrother: Is that just a less featureful rbutil competitor?
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23:56:30LloreanI suppose it does have syncing features
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