#rockbox 2008-07-17

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#rockbox log for 2008-07-17

00:00:34	MarcGuay	Is it possible to install a dual-bootloader the Gigabeast?
00:00:43	MarcGuay	*on the
00:00:51	Nico_P	MarcGuay: yes, but we can't distribute it
00:00:53		Join buckycat [0] (n=fxckoff@pool-96-236-133-198.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net)
00:01:04		Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:01:30	MarcGuay	Can I extract the original nk.bin myself?
00:01:53	linuxstb	Only by physically removing the disk... (afaik)
00:01:57		Part buckycat
00:02:05		Join CyBergRind\|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130)
00:02:26	MarcGuay	And if I install the Rockbox only version, I lose the ability to charge?
00:02:40	linuxstb	At the moment, yes.
00:03:11	MarcGuay	Are there any ideas on how to get around this?
00:03:32	swears	marcguay, I have dualboot
00:03:38	swears	on gigabeat s
00:03:54	linuxstb	For dual-booting, we can only rely on third-parties hosting the required OF nk.bin file.
00:04:07	linuxstb	For charging, I'm sure that will get implemented at some point.
00:07:18		Quit [CBR]Unspoken\|w (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:07:55		Quit shotofadds (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:08:05	swears	actually, when I hook my gigabeat up to the car charger w/ rockbox
00:08:10	swears	it charges to 60%
00:08:15	swears	very strange
00:08:24		Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:10:14	Nico_P	swears: the OF barely ever spins the disk down
00:10:38		Quit votetrev (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:10:41	Nico_P	... which is a total waste of battery
00:10:43	swears	what's OF?
00:10:52	Nico_P	original firmware
00:10:56	swears	gotcha
00:11:12	swears	that's why it changes tracks fast?
00:12:20	swears	but,I changed disk spin down time to really high in RB, and it has no effect on track change time
00:13:29		Nick shot0fadds is now known as shotofadds (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds)
00:14:14	Nico_P	let me try a comparison
00:14:21	swears	k
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00:23:13		Quit ender` (" Light a fire for a man, and he's warm for a day. Light a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.")
00:23:49	Nico_P	swears: unbuffered skips are slow in the OF too
00:24:35	Nico_P	the OF actually seems to have far worse buffering than we do
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00:25:20	swears	hmm
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00:27:12	swears	Nico_p are you using the gigabeat s?
00:27:20	Nico_P	yes
00:27:31	swears	and it doesn't take 3 seconds to change the track?
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00:27:51	Nico_P	I'm not saying rockbox doesn't. I'm saying the OF does too
00:28:17	swears	yeah but not 3 seconds
00:28:29		Quit Zarggg ()
00:28:40	swears	w/ RB, when I hit next or previous, it graphically shows the title of the next track right away
00:28:50	swears	but it won't hear anything for a while
00:28:59	swears	all my crossfade delays are on 0
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00:32:13	scorche\|sh	swears: i assume you are using a hard drive device?
00:32:19	swears	yes
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00:33:17	Nico_P	swears: it might be a teeny weeny bit slower with rockbox, but honestly I think it's barely noticeable
00:33:22	scorche\|sh	it takes time to spin up the drive
00:33:35	swears	no, it really is MUCH slower.
00:33:44	swears	that's the only reason i'm concerned
00:33:51	swears	if it was barely slow, I wouldn't really mind
00:34:04	scorche\|sh	skip once so the drive spins up, then try skipping a few more times...it should be much faster, yes?
00:34:15	swears	dont think so, but let me try again
00:34:35	Nico_P	swears: I think you're not doing a fair comparison. you need to make sure the OF does an unbuffered skip too
00:34:47	Nico_P	a buffered skip in rockbox and in the OF is instantaneous
00:35:20	Nico_P	also be sure to use tracks that don't have silence in the beginning
00:35:21	swears	is that enabled by default?
00:35:28	swears	yeah, i know =p
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00:35:45	scorche\|sh	enabled by default?...huh?
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00:36:01	swears	buffered skip?
00:36:08		Quit votetrev (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:36:11	scorche\|sh	buffered in ram
00:36:14	swears	righ
00:36:15	swears	t
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00:36:34	swears	so, when you play a song, it automatically loads the next queued song into the ram?
00:36:59	scorche\|sh	when you are skipping, you are likely skipping to a track that is not yet buffered, so the drive needs to spin up (which takes time) to buffer it
00:37:18	scorche\|sh	swears: it depends on how much space the song takes up
00:37:26	swears	true
00:37:53	swears	but if i'm not using shuffle, and assuming the tracks from the same album are very close to each other
00:37:59	Nico_P	when the disk spins up, rockbox buffers as much audio as possible
00:37:59	swears	shouldn't that go quite fast?
00:38:04	swears	ok, i see
00:38:18	Nico_P	track order or proximity doesn't make a difference
00:38:19	scorche\|sh	swears: shuffle doesnt matter...it is still one playlist
00:38:26	swears	ok
00:38:45	swears	If i change the skip protection to a small amount, will that leave more room for the next song?
00:38:53	swears	in the ram
00:39:00	Nico_P	swears: you might want to look at the buffering debug screen to get an idea of what's happenning
00:39:13	swears	ok, where can I find that?
00:39:21	Nico_P	swears: no. that's something else. as much RAM as possible is used
00:39:35	scorche\|sh	swears: you might want to try defragmenting your drive...it could speed things up if your drive is fragmented
00:39:45	Nico_P	system > debug > view buffering thread
00:39:47	MarcGuay	To install the Gigabeat S bootloader from Windows I run a command prompt an execute "sendfirm.exe nk.bin"?
00:39:54	MarcGuay	*and
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00:41:49	Nico_P	swears: from my timings the difference appears to be around half a second
00:41:55	swears	wow, that's good
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00:42:38	Nico_P	or even no difference at all
00:42:47	swears	yeah, so it's definately my device
00:42:56	swears	does your "back" button work while in "Now Playing"
00:43:04	Nico_P	an unbuffered skip takes ~3 seconds in both rockbox and the OF
00:43:23	swears	ok, so I dont have buffered skips
00:43:34	swears	will try defragmenting
00:44:02	Nico_P	I have dircache enabled and very few files
00:44:23	Nico_P	also, no crossfade
00:45:10	swears	i disabled crossfafe, but it makes that ugly trackchange noise
00:45:16	swears	still not faster though
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00:45:56	swears	crossfade*
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00:52:19		Quit n17ikh\|Lappy ()
00:54:34	swears	wow, i just realized, when i don't hit "skip"
00:54:38	swears	and let it play on it's own
00:54:38		Quit votetrev (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:54:42	swears	it changes very fast
00:55:40	scorche\|sh	right...because it is buffered
00:55:59	scorche\|sh	in fact, it should be "gapless"
00:56:35	massiveH	users of iriver h300 series players should take a look at forum post http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17202.0
00:56:40	massiveH	it may be very useful for you
00:57:10	scorche\|sh	massiveH: do not spam/promote your unsupported builds here please
00:57:38	massiveH	scorche\|sh, I am spamming nothing, did you even see what it does?
00:57:40	swears	ahh, I see the difference now
00:58:07	scorche\|sh	massiveH: it is an "advertisment" for an unsupported bootloader
00:58:32	massiveH	scorche\|sh, well, it may be unsupported, but it should be in the main tree (the features at least)
00:58:51	scorche\|sh	then put a patch in flyspray and draw attention to that
00:59:16	massiveH	I'm sorry, I have no idea how to create patches.
00:59:30	scorche\|sh	there are instructions in the wiki
01:00
01:00:11	massiveH	ok, but this is something I would like to draw attention to, and putting it here for constructive criticism, is where it should be put, unless this isn't the rockbox irc...
01:00:20	scorche\|sh	WorkingWithPatches
01:00:56	scorche\|sh	massiveH: if you want to draw attention to it and want it in SVN, make a patch and submit it to the tracker as i said
01:01:26	massiveH	what is wrong with drawing attention to it here?
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01:01:48	scorche\|sh	the issue is what you are drawing attention to....we need a patch...not an unsupported bootloader
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01:02:10	scorche\|sh	and the patch should be in flyspray so we can comment on it there/can track it
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01:02:21	massiveH	ok, I'll go try and figure that out.
01:03:45	swears	anyone know what happened to the gigabeat s installation manuals?
01:03:50	swears	(dead links) atm
01:04:07	scorche\|sh	swears: there were installation manuals?...the instructions should be in the wiki
01:04:23	swears	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatSInstallation
01:04:25	swears	Step 4
01:04:54	swears	would like to figure out why my "back" button won't work in "now Playing"
01:05:18	scorche\|sh	it wont work?
01:05:35	swears	no
01:05:45	scorche\|sh	is it a hardware issue?
01:05:48	swears	i mean it works, just not in "now playing"
01:06:08	swears	does nothing
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01:07:22	scorche\|sh	odd...perhaps you can wait around for someone who knows a bit more sabout the current status of that port...keep in mind that it hasnt been deemed complete enough to be added to the official list yet
01:07:47	MarcGuay	scorche: it looks like the manuals were being built for a bit but have disappeared.
01:08:16	swears	schorche\|sh: i know it's not complete, I like testing it though
01:08:51	swears	I wish there were a seperate chan for just gigabeat s installs
01:08:52	scorche\|sh	MarcGuay: it does appear that way...i was referring to his actual issue though
01:08:59	swears	looks like the forums don't get updated that much
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01:19:59	MarcGuay	is there a button press for the hard reboot on the beast or is it the battery switch only?
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01:21:39	swears	u mean hold down power button?
01:21:44	swears	or battery switch?
01:22:37	MarcGuay	i tried holding down the power button (on a data abort error) and got nothing. battery switch did the trick.
01:22:48	swears	oh
01:23:14	swears	The only way to get it out of the original firmware is by using the battery switch, because I dont think it ever really turns off
01:23:32	swears	which can be really annoying
01:23:41	MarcGuay	I got the error in Rockbox. All is well.
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01:39:10	massiveH	scorche\|sh, is this more of what you were looking for? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9202
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02:00
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02:06:46	Soap	scorche, I want folders i can organize forum PMs in.
02:08:28	MarcGuay	Soap: That bad? Should I ask to have the Expert tag removed?
02:09:13	Soap	no no no
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02:42:04	swears	what color depth are backgrounds?
02:42:05	swears	16?
02:42:30	swears	nevermind
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04:49:12	sdubois92	I am trying to install on a 30gb ipod, but when i reboot it, it doesnt work
04:49:58	sdubois92	I copied .rockbox to the ipod, and ran ipodpatcher, and everything went fine, but when i rebooted, i got the standard ipod menu
04:50:56	scorche	was there any sort of text between?
04:50:57	JdGordon	did ipodpatcher say it was successful?
04:51:02	sdubois92	JdGordon: yes
04:51:09	sdubois92	[INFO] Bootloader installed successfully.
04:51:48	sdubois92	http://pastebin.com/m11038301
04:53:03	MarcGuay	sdubois92: Do you have the hold switch on?
04:53:18	sdubois92	MarcGuay: no.., hence i was able to reboot
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04:53:50	MarcGuay	Unplugging the USB will often reboot the device, hold or no hold.
04:53:58	scorche	sdubois92: well, the bootloader install likely failed silently for some odd reason....could you try using rbutil?
04:54:43	MarcGuay	I ask because flipping the hold on is how the bootloader hears "I want the Apple firmware".
04:54:59		Quit shadoxx (Remote closed the connection)
04:55:19	Llorean	Where did you get iPodPatcher. I thought our current bootloader version was 2.0, not 1.1
04:55:29	sdubois92	should i just remove the .rockbox, copy it again, unisntall the ipodpatcher and reinstall
04:55:36	scorche	.rockbox is not the issue
04:55:46	scorche	the bootloader is
04:56:04	Llorean	scorche: Actually, it might be.
04:56:10	sdubois92	well, i mounted /dev/sdd2 to copy my .rockbox file, but ipodpatcher installed to /dev/sdd
04:56:15	scorche	Llorean: eh?
04:56:25	Llorean	If I recall, bootloader 1.1 was after "don't update the screen" but before "it freezes if rockbox.ipod isn't found"
04:56:28	sdubois92	and when i tried to run ./ipodpatcher /dev/sdd2, it didnt work
04:56:34	Llorean	It may be silently not finding rockbox.ipod and defaulting to OF.
04:56:47	sdubois92	rockbox.ipod is there
04:56:52	scorche	Llorean: i would still call that a bootloader problem...it is an old bootloader
04:57:12	Llorean	scorche: Yeah, but it's both, as if we get him updated he may still not have a validly placed rockbox.ipod
04:57:19	Llorean	sdubois92: You never answered where you got ipodpatcher from.
04:57:48	sdubois92	http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/ipodpatcher/linux-ppc/
04:58:11	Llorean	sdubois92: That's a very out of date file.
04:58:21	Llorean	You should compile your own, or use RBUtil.
04:58:28	sdubois92	isnt that a gui tool?
04:58:33	Llorean	Yes.
04:58:38	sdubois92	eh
04:58:39	Llorean	But it's also more up to date.
04:59:14	sdubois92	can i get the sources and compile myself
04:59:28	Llorean	I wouldn't have suggested it if you can't...
04:59:30		Quit d-k-t-2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:59:47	sdubois92	without the gui
04:59:58	Llorean	You can compile an up to date ipodpatcher binary.
05:00
05:00:08	sdubois92	without the gui?
05:00:22	MarcGuay	Llorean: Did you get my forum PM? I realize they're generally annoying but I thought it wise to remove that out-of-date Feature Request info, which I don't have to the powers to do myself.
05:00:28	massiveH	scorche, is this what you mean by a patch task? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9202
05:00:29	Llorean	sdubois92: Did ipodpatcher have a GUI when YOU ran it?
05:00:35	sdubois92	no
05:00:44	Llorean	So why would you be asking me if you can compile it without the gui...
05:01:05	Llorean	MarcGuay: Yes, I just hadn't decided what I want to do yet (replace it, update it, just trash it)
05:01:26	sdubois92	because you said to use RBUtil, which is the gui, and i asked if i could compile ipodpatcher without the gui
05:01:33	MarcGuay	Llorean: Check.
05:01:48	Llorean	sdubois92: Ipodpatcher doesn't HAVE a gui. They're two different tools. RBUtil is not "a gui" it's "a gui tool" which is what you asked.
05:01:59	Llorean	RBUtil is a completely separate tool with integrated gui.
05:02:58	MarcGuay	Why isn't that version up to date, but the one RBUtil has is?
05:03:12	Llorean	MarcGuay: We don't have anyone on PPC linux to compile it?
05:03:15	Llorean	And test
05:03:28	MarcGuay	I think we just found one.
05:03:32	Llorean	There won't be a version of RBUtil for PPC linux either.
05:03:58	swears	question, does the rockbox database display hidden files?
05:04:08	Llorean	swears: The Rockbox Database doesn't display files.
05:04:19	MarcGuay	swears: Only if they have ID3 tags.
05:04:37	swears	hmm, is their a way to turn hidden files off?
05:04:44	swears	so they don't show up
05:04:52	Llorean	swears: They don't show up in the filetree if set to "supported"
05:04:58	MarcGuay	In the file browser.
05:05:00	swears	ok
05:05:03	swears	but what about in the database
05:05:10	*	MarcGuay walks away
05:05:32	*	swears follows
05:05:45	swears	lol
05:06:00	Llorean	swears: The database shows all the files you let it scan.
05:06:00	MarcGuay	What are you trying to do?
05:06:06	Llorean	Don't scan them, and it won't show 'em.
05:06:13	swears	ok, here's what i'm trying to do..
05:06:19	swears	i want to have double of each file
05:06:26	swears	so I can use both firmwares
05:06:38	Llorean	If you're using the database, why do you need doubles?
05:06:44	swears	because, in the playlist
05:06:52	swears	it shows them as weird entries
05:07:02	swears	it uses the actual files, instead of id3 track names
05:07:03	Llorean	Well, as i said, it will show all files you scan.
05:07:09	Llorean	So use database.ignore to keep it from scanning your duplicates.
05:07:27	swears	ok
05:07:37	swears	is that a setting?
05:07:57	Llorean	No, it's a file, "database.ignore"
05:08:02	swears	ok
05:08:03	MarcGuay	Check the database page in the wiki...
05:08:08	swears	k
05:08:46	MarcGuay	Woops, not there. DocsToDo.
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05:10:03	MarcGuay	Manual -> Browsing and Playing -> Database
05:11:44	swears	your the man
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05:13:41	swears	you're
05:13:41	swears	*
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07:06:38	Ynzu	hi
07:07:15	Ynzu	just came to ask is there any rom for rockboy available thats actually playable around?
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07:13:21	scorche	Ynzu: not from here
07:15:09	Ynzu	no i mean in general im not asking for anything
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07:16:32	Llorean	Ynzu: It more depends on your player than anything else.
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09:41:29	linuxstb	Anyone with an iPod Photo (type 0 LCD) around?
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10:17:22	Nico_P	is there a particular reason why dircache isn't default?
10:17:59	Llorean	It's still a bit buggy in certain situations
10:18:03	Llorean	Especially if you have a lot of small files.
10:18:24	Nico_P	oh :( I think it would really be a sane default
10:18:46	Llorean	It would if you could be assured that it'd generate no matter what.
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10:19:38	Nico_P	are there open FS bugs about the issues?
10:19:54	Llorean	Honestly, I don't know.
10:20:07	Llorean	I think there may be other issues (I seem to remember amiconn bringing something up)
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10:46:23	GodEater	Llorean: you mean an issue besides "I don't like it, and I don't need it on the iPod Mini" ? :)
10:46:55	Llorean	GodEater: Yes, I remember there were technical issues.
10:47:02	Llorean	I know it doesn't like extremely large amounts of files.
10:47:33	Llorean	For example, if you put the HVSC on it, I seem to recall that's enough files to break it.
10:47:44	GodEater	HVSC ?
10:47:56	Llorean	High Voltage Sid Collection
10:48:11	*	GodEater remains looking blank
10:48:32	Llorean	It's just a collection of SID files.
10:48:38	Llorean	Something like more than 30,000 tracks
10:48:50	Llorean	But it's not particularly big because they're SIDs
10:49:35	Llorean	But it really doesn't matter what format the files are in. If you have a lot of files on your player, maybe because you're also using it as a disk for some purpose, it can run into problems.
10:49:47	GodEater	interesting
10:50:03	GodEater	I've never run into an issue with it, and I'm sure I've got more than 30,000 files on my ipod
10:50:23	Llorean	Are you sure it's actually active?
10:50:29	GodEater	god yes
10:50:40	GodEater	the file browser in unusably slow otherwise
10:50:48	pixelma	is it also an issue if the directory structure is too deep (e.g. the stats plugin has a problem with it)?
10:50:56	Llorean	Dunno
10:51:17	Llorean	I'll have to try again sometime, maybe the situation has improved. I thought I tested it 3 or 4 months ago, though
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10:51:39	Llorean	Maybe dircache on by default can be a goal for 3.1
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10:52:48	pixelma	hmm... I think I read a commit message where someone highered the limit of subfolders but I'm not sure (if I remember correctly and what the number was)
10:53:39	Llorean	I wonder if it'd be possible to approximate the cache size.
10:54:54	Llorean	Like, on first boot of Rockbox (no config.cfg present) it says "Dircache will now initialize. This will use X MB of memory to improve browsing performance. Press Select to confirm or Power to cancel"
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10:57:59	wpyh	do we have to handle a USB connected event everytime we wait for a button?
10:58:48	wpyh	I see that in solitaire.c, even in solitaire_help (which basically just shows the help text), it handles the USB connected event
11:00
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11:00:22	markun	wpyh: it's how the game gets stopped when you insert the USB cable
11:01:09	wpyh	so the plugin needs to be "cooperative"?
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11:05:41	Llorean	Do you mean "needs to be" in terms of "The software requires it" or "If I want my changes to be included"?
11:07:11	bertrik	I did some experiments on sansa c200 charging yesterday, doesn't make much sense to me yet
11:07:47	bertrik	I'll put the results in the wiki
11:09:35	wpyh	Llorean: none of them
11:09:45	wpyh	what I mean is: whether something bad will happen if I don't do that
11:09:55	wpyh	as in, some corruption or buttons freezing, etc
11:10:10	linuxstb	The consequence is that Rockbox won't enter usb mode when you insert the usb cable...
11:10:41	wpyh	linuxstb: but future usb events will still be handled right?
11:11:12	linuxstb	Probably, yes. But plugins should deal with USB correctly...
11:11:21	wpyh	linuxstb: ok then...
11:11:27	wpyh	I'll keep the usb event there
11:11:28	wpyh	:)
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11:38:08	PaulJam_	Slasheri: i have a question about the "import changes" option of the database: when impoting, which runtimedata gets preferrred? the data from the textfile or that from rockbox? What i did was exporting the changes, them modifying the changelog (changed the rating values) and then imported the changes, but this didn't seem to work and i was wondering if i maybe did something wrong or if this is expected and i have to do a full initialzing in order
11:38:08	PaulJam_	to apply the changes.
11:40:45	Slasheri	PaulJam_: you have to start from clean db, then it should work. any changes to the runtimedata made by rockbox are always kept
11:40:58	PaulJam_	ok, thank you
11:43:28	bertrik	JdGordon, I took a look a function option_screen in option_select.c and was able to make it a lot simpler, can you have a look?
11:44:01	JdGordon	sure
11:44:58	bertrik	do you want a diff or shall i just post that specific function somewhere (pastebin)?
11:45:50	JdGordon	either or
11:47:19	bertrik	JdGordon, the diff is at http://pastebin.ca/1074201
11:48:06	bertrik	the function is at http://pastebin.ca/1074202
11:48:18	*	JdGordon is always nervous with difs which are mostly - lines :p
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11:51:18	Nibbl	:)
11:52:17	bertrik	I think it's simpler and clearer now and the need for the changed and show_cancel flags is gone
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11:52:54	JdGordon	ok, looks ok (although i have a massive headache so I'm just taking your word for that... )
11:53:10	bertrik	I tested it on c200 and e200 and it still works the same as the old implementation as far as I could see
11:53:35	JdGordon	ok
11:54:31	bertrik	JdGordon, I'll take the blame and fix it if does turn out to have bug, ok? :)
11:54:40	JdGordon	:)
11:56:53	pondlife	linuxstb: Looks like you've found a fix for the iPod Photo LCDs..? Do we know how to detect the type though?
11:59:12	linuxstb	pondlife: Yes, we always have done - there is different init code for the two LCDs already.
11:59:21	pondlife	Good!
11:59:52	linuxstb	I've just read Uchida's comment - that was easy ;)
12:00
12:00:00	pondlife	One bit, eh?
12:00:17	linuxstb	Yes, and it took about 5 minutes to find it in a disassembly...
12:00:43	linuxstb	There was the same sequence of LCD commands that we have in SVN,. but with that 1-bit difference.
12:01:35	linuxstb	I guess I should commit...
12:03:36	pondlife	Yep.
12:03:53	pondlife	Any iPod 4G owners able to shed light on http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5826 ?
12:04:07	pondlife	I suspect it's not a bug, but I don't know for sure.
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12:08:33	PaulJam_	pondlife: i was wondering about your comment in FS #9202. shouldn't the batterylevel be irrelevant when the charger is connected?
12:09:07	PaulJam_	(to spin up the disk)
12:09:33	pondlife	Sorry - I was thinking of USB, when you might still not be able to draw enough current. or has that issue been fixed now?
12:10:08	pondlife	AFAIK the H300 doesn't enable high current mode over USB and this can mean that USB powering isn't enough in all cases...
12:10:28	pondlife	I am only going on what I've read in here, and might have misunderstood
12:11:04	Llorean	Car Mode can't really be checked from the bootloader (or rather, shouldn't be)
12:11:26	PaulJam_	hmm, in the firmware there is a setting for that. but i don't know if the SVN bootloader takes 500mA.
12:11:47	pondlife	AFAIK we only ever take 100mA on the H300.
12:12:15	pondlife	I've always found USB charging to be much slower than mains.
12:12:42	pondlife	Llorean: I agree, but I thought someone said we'd need to check from NVRAM for some reason.
12:12:57	pondlife	I'm no expert though.
12:13:10	pondlife	Maybe ask LinusN.
12:13:52	Llorean	pondlife: NVRAM could be used so that it could be checked without needing to hit the disk
12:14:08	Llorean	Which is a much more acceptable solution in cases where NVRAM can be kept in the EEPROM
12:14:45	pondlife	Yes, but I also thought there was a particular requirement for this before the H300 could have car mode.
12:14:59	Llorean	I don't think we use the EEPROM on the H300 yet.
12:15:03	Llorean	For anything.
12:15:09	pondlife	Correct.
12:15:31	Llorean	So yes, it would be a requirement for a bootloader to acknowledge car mode.
12:15:44	petur	EEPROM is used by the OF, which we need for flashing
12:15:52	PaulJam_	I'm not sure if the EEPROM should be used, the OF stores it's settings there (but amybe it doesn't use the whole available space)
12:16:01	Llorean	petur: cant' we reset the OF's EEPROM though?
12:16:16	Llorean	meaning we can use it for ourselves, and have a tool to "clean" it before you boot into it for flashing?
12:16:18	pondlife	IIRC, I was wondering if the bootloader needed to be involved, or if car mode could be implemented without a bootloader change. There was a reason, sadly...
12:16:39	petur	the OF does no testing on the EEPROM, I've seen it doe weird things when EEPROM got corrupted
12:16:46	Llorean	pondlife: As long as there's bootloader USB mode, it needs to be involved, unfortunately
12:17:10	Llorean	petur: Does the OF use all of it?
12:17:14	petur	nope
12:17:16	Llorean	Arguably we only need a single bit, at the moment.
12:17:38	petur	I remember that about half of it is FF
12:17:54	pondlife	Llorean: I was more thinking of the non-USB powered case... i.e. just like patch #9202.
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12:19:17	Llorean	pondlife: If I recall correctly, some players will encounter problems spinning up the disk if the battery is too low.
12:19:20	Llorean	I'm not certain though.
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12:19:38	pondlife	Yes, that was my recollection - hence my comment
12:19:45	Llorean	I know it's true for some of them.
12:19:54	pondlife	I'm not sure if that only applied to USB or not though
12:20:06	pondlife	So it might be possible to do this for the non-USB case
12:20:19	Llorean	I'm pretty sure it'd be all or nothing.
12:20:30	pondlife	Yes, best to keep things simple anyway.
12:20:30	PaulJam_	but if the USB cable gets inserted the disk as to spin up anyway. either to enter booloader USB mode or to boot the firmware.
12:21:01	Llorean	PaulJam_: Bootloader USB mode means you don't need a working firmware to access the disk
12:21:07	Llorean	So bootloader USB mode shouldn't be removed.
12:21:57	pondlife	The patch makes bootloader USB mode available if you hold a key down.
12:21:58	PaulJam_	of course it shouldn't (and i don't like the changes that this patch does concerning USB bootloader mode).
12:22:15	*	pondlife neither
12:23:00	Llorean	pondlife: I don't object to the default behaviour of the bootloader be "ignore USB/Charger and continue onward" as long as holding some easy-to-hold button enters charge-without-spinup, or bootloader USB
12:23:27	Llorean	It'd make car adapter mode work without removing options, and simply just be a slightly saner order of operations.
12:24:11	pondlife	I think I'd want consistency too - i.e. you'd need to hold the same button for USB connection in normal operation (rather than just charge)... then there's consistency across targets to consider.
12:24:32	Llorean	pondlife: You mean, "Inside Rockbox, the default behaviour should be to ignore USB too?"
12:24:37	Llorean	That makes no sense to me.
12:25:03	Llorean	If you plug in USB, and car mode is off, Rockbox will boot and still go into USB, so it's still "consistent" in that Rockbox still goes into USB every time you plug in a cable.
12:25:18	Llorean	The bootloader USB is more or less just an emergency mode that you trigger instead.
12:25:48	pondlife	True
12:25:55	Llorean	For the iPods this could be the in-flash USB mode once the Rockbox stack is working, so that it doesn't have to be compiled into the bootloader.
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12:26:21	PaulJam_	since the H300 has a separate charger input, should the car adapter mode even influence the USB behaviour?
12:26:37	Llorean	Once inside Rockbox, "USB plugin" behaviour should be determined by "Is sleep mode enabled?" and (in my opinion) "What has the user chose as their default plug-in behaviour?"
12:26:53	Llorean	PaulJam_: If it can charge from USB, it should, yes.
12:27:01	Llorean	USB car chargers are very widely available.
12:27:04	pondlife	Yes.. that's a user preference as to whether they mainly use USB for charging or connection.
12:27:06	Llorean	ones suited for the H300 probably less so
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12:36:54	PaulJam	can the h300 theoretically differentiate between a connected USB charger and a PC?
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13:16:07	amiconn	linuxstb: Wow, how did you find that?
13:16:39	linuxstb	It turned out to be very easy - I just searched for "0xef" in a disassembly of the Apple bootloader, and almost immediately found that init sequence.
13:17:12	linuxstb	(with that one change compared to the code you took from IPL)
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13:31:56	mcuelenaere	can anybody close FS #9180 ?
13:38:57	linuxstb	mcuelenaere: You should ask Bagder/LinusN/Zagor for developer rights on flyspray...
13:39:28	linuxstb	mcuelenaere: What revision was the code committed?
13:39:28	mcuelenaere	hmm I should..
13:39:30	mcuelenaere	Bagder: ping
13:40:04	mcuelenaere	linuxstb: r18032
13:40:31	linuxstb	mcuelenaere: OK, closed.
13:40:39	mcuelenaere	thx
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14:37:31	LambdaCalculus37	linuxstb: Just updated my iPod color to r18082. Everything's displaying correctly again.
14:41:52	linuxstb	LambdaCalculus37: Yes, I saw your forum post.
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16:08:27	kawds	hi, i tried to charge my ipod nano 1st gen. and now it is stuck/completely dead, reset didn't help, any suggestions?
16:09:20	LambdaCalculus37	How long did you let it charge?
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16:09:51	kawds	it charge the whole evening yesterday
16:10:09	kawds	played for 30minutes
16:10:22	kawds	and now i wanted to upload music and charge it
16:13:01	linuxstb	What happens when you try and reset it?
16:13:39	kawds	tried that several times, nothing happens
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16:13:57	linuxstb	How long were you holding SELECT+MENU for?
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16:14:29	kawds	everytime like 15sec
16:14:39	kawds	even tried longer and shorter times
16:14:56	kawds	tried everything apple suggests :-)
16:14:57	Nico_P	theoretically, would there be a way to make flash memory accessible through a pointer?
16:14:59	linuxstb	Try holding for longer (30+ seconds), and also just keep charging it.
16:15:46	linuxstb	Nico_P: It depends on the hardware interface, but normally you tell the controller which sector you want to read, and then read that sector one word at a time from a memory-mapped hardware register.
16:16:00	kawds	do i have to use a charger or can i use the usb-cable?
16:16:20	linuxstb	kawds: Either _should_ work, but with a charger you can be more confident.
16:16:41	kawds	hm, will try usb-cable, cause i don't have a charger :-)
16:17:14	Nico_P	linuxstb: hmm so clearly there's no way to make an arbitrary length of data available? I'm asking because I'm working on a version of the buffering API that does (almost) direct access to the flash mem (no actual buffering)
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16:17:51	Nico_P	packet audio is OK with a static buffer, but I can't think of a way of making streamable audio work
16:18:07	linuxstb	Nico_P: No. I think you would need a small buffer (one sector/page/whatever the unit of access to the flash is) to read the data into.
16:18:19	PaulJam	kawds: have you tried flipping the holds switch on and off again before resetting?
16:18:34	linuxstb	But codecs expect up to GUARD_BUFFER_SIZE (32KB) available at once, so that would be a good size to make the buffer.
16:18:49	kawds	yeah, hold-switch, menu+select, 5sec, 15sec, 30sec, etc.
16:18:56	kawds	all of that :-)
16:19:00	Nico_P	linuxstb: that's what I've made my static buffer, but some codec need to have the whole file
16:19:13	linuxstb	Nico_P: Then they can't be played...
16:19:35	linuxstb	Unless the codec is modified to seek/read instead of expecting the whole file in RAM
16:20:16	Nico_P	yeah then I'll focus on the codecs that don't need to be modified :)
16:20:58	Nico_P	my goal is to create an alternative version of buffering.c, so that no other change is needed for most cases
16:21:17	Nico_P	It's already working although it has quirks
16:22:09	Nico_P	I don't plan on implementing album art either
16:22:21	linuxstb	kawds: If I was you, I would just plug it in to charge, and forget about it for 24 hours. I would also leave the hold switch on, so if it magically awakens, the Apple firmware starts.
16:22:37	kawds	Hold Switch on "ON"?
16:22:46	kawds	so "Hold" is working?
16:22:47	linuxstb	yes
16:22:48	kawds	:-)
16:22:56	linuxstb	?
16:22:58	kawds	ok, will try that and look for a charger
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16:57:03	linuxstb	Nico_P: Is your new buffering code stable enough to do a runtime test? I'm curious to see what impact a small audio buffer would have on our "large-mem" flash targets (Nano, Sansas).
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17:01:28	Nico_P	linuxstb: not yet, no
17:02:03	Nico_P	I can't work on it ATM. I probably will this evening
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17:28:44	sdubois92	i am only able to copy my music to my ipod as root, how can i copy it as my regular user?
17:30:28	pedrov	SUSaiyan: it's probably not a rockbox issue :)
17:30:30	PaulJam	just as you copy music to any other extenal harddrive
17:30:35	pedrov	sdubois92: ^
17:30:53	sdubois92	pedrov: but everything on the ipod is owned by root
17:31:10	pedrov	sdubois92: I guess that it's fat32 (vfat) ?
17:31:19	sdubois92	yes
17:31:33	pedrov	then when you mount it, you should add -o uid=your_userid,ig=your_groupid
17:31:51	pedrov	s/ig/gid/
17:32:13	sdubois92	add that to the end of the mount command?
17:32:25	pedrov	mount -t vfat -o uid=[uid],gid=[gid] /dev/your_ipod /mnt/yourmountpoint
17:33:11	sdubois92	that just gives me the mount help menu
17:33:17	GodEater	this is definitely not a rockbox question
17:33:29	GodEater	please either take it to a PM, or to a linux channel
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17:52:58	jpt9	Hey guys.
17:53:07	jpt9	I've been using a 2GB MicroSD card in my Sansa e250R with Rockbox.
17:53:53	jpt9	I'm thinking of getting an 8GB MicroSDHC card. Does Rockbox work with MicroSDHC cards (as opposed to regular MicroSD)? How about the original firmware? Thanks.
17:54:07	scorche\|sh	rockbox: yes OF: no
17:54:09	GodEater	Rockbox words with MicroSDHC, the OF doesn't
17:54:09	jpt9	Also, in case you haven't heard it twenty bazillion times before, Rockbox is awesome!
17:54:25	jpt9	scorche: So I'd need to use a card reader?
17:54:30	GodEater	you would
17:54:36	jpt9	okay.
17:54:52	*	jpt9 goes and checks if the one built in to his ThinkPad would work...
17:55:08	GodEater	or go through the laborious route of copying music to the main memory, and then boot rockbox, use rockbox to move it to the card, etc etc.
17:56:39	jpt9	I'm still amazed that they can fit 8GB on a memory card the size of my fingernail...
17:56:59	*	LambdaCalculus37 marks jpt9's praise as Praise No. Twenty Bazillion and One
17:57:07	jpt9	lol...
17:57:26	jpt9	anyway... I'm going to head out and get some lunch...
17:57:36	jpt9	(Eastern Standard Time here, if you're curious)
17:58:05	GodEater	well they can fit 16GB on one the same size currently
17:58:11	GodEater	and soon it'll be 32GB
17:58:12	GodEater	:D
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18:07:12	amiconn	GodEater, jpt9: Or compile rockbox yourself, enabling usb support...
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18:17:33	ryan1991	is there any way to make so rockbox works with a bose ipod dock?
18:18:40	scorche\|sh	it might work with outputting sound and changing volume, but that is the best you can hope for
18:18:51	ryan1991	ok thanks
18:20:46	jpt9	oh yeah...
18:21:21	PaulJam	ryan1991: there is a patch in the works to make accessories work
18:21:44	jpt9	it'd be neat if you could map some button sequence to run config files (or pull up a menu of them). (Namely, to turn on voice menus while it's in my pocket. However, due to the beautifully designed config file system, you could probably make it do pretty much anything.)
18:21:45	ryan1991	any idea of what its called or do i have to resort to random googling
18:21:53	PaulJam	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8624
18:21:59	ryan1991	excellent thanks
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19:27:26	sacarasc	With the iPod 5th gen, will it still charge via usb if I install rockbox on it?
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19:43:19	linuxstb	sacarasc: Yes, but possibly slower when actually running Rockbox than when using the Apple firmware. But Rockbox doesn't remove the Apple firmware - you can "dual-boot" between the two firmwares.
19:43:39	sacarasc	thanks
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19:45:28	saratoga	"svn commit -m apps/codecs/libwma -m "Use Tremor IMDCT for WMA."
19:45:33	saratoga	argh why does svn let me do this
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19:47:04	bertrik	-m twice ?
19:47:09	saratoga	yes
19:47:17		Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
19:47:19	saratoga	the first is ignored and so is the path
19:47:24	saratoga	so it commited my entire SVN tree
19:52:10	*	linuxstb is disappointed not to see "rockbox-as-app" committed ;)
19:52:58	saratoga	ah different tree fortunately
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19:55:30	amiconn	saratoga: Happened to me too ...
19:56:07	amiconn	The suggested solution is to not use -m at all, but then I don't know whether it will properly fire up an editor from within cygwin, and which one
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19:57:33	saratoga	i'm having trouble reverting some of these changes
19:57:43	saratoga	how do i commit a revert for only some files?
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19:58:27	amiconn	I'd make a diff from the commit, cut all the changes that should stay, apply patch -r, then commit
19:58:35	sacarasc	I'm having a problem running ipodpatcher (./ipodpatcher: /lib64/tls/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by ./ipodpatcher)). Anyone know what to do here?
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20:00:45	amiconn	saratoga: I am wondering about your speed comparision - iirc mp3 is faster than vorbis on arm, at least on PP5002
20:01:02	linuxstb	sacarasc: You could try rbutil (the GUI Rockbox installer - it does the same as ipodpatcher, but more), or compile ipodpatcher yourself from source.
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20:04:15	saratoga	amiconn: I actually didn't think to test the PP5002
20:04:59	saratoga	though given the PP5024 results (200% vs. 250%), I'd expect it to be at least somewhat faster
20:05:00	linuxstb	Which ARMs did you test it on?
20:05:11	saratoga	just PP5024
20:05:32	linuxstb	We now have many different ARMs - v4, v5, v6...
20:05:39	saratoga	though the IMDCT numbers for the Gigabeat F looked good as well, so I have no reason to doubt that its faster there too
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20:12:09	linuxstb	saratoga: Is there a reason you didn't share the same source files, rather than making a second copy of files in Tremor?
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20:13:00	saratoga	linuxstb: I wasn't sure how
20:13:16	linuxstb	You could have put them in the codec lib
20:13:20	saratoga	perhaps when FAAD gets this optimization, the IMDCT should be removed from all three codecs and put into it's own lib
20:13:43	saratoga	wouldn't that waste memory on codecs that don't use the IMDCT?
20:13:55	linuxstb	No, the linker would strip it out
20:14:52	saratoga	ok i'll put that on my todo list
20:15:02	saratoga	cleaning up that imdct to be less Vorbis specific would be nice too
20:17:09	amiconn	PP5002 is a bit special due to its broken cache. SO you say vorbis is faster than libmad on PP502x?
20:17:33	saratoga	amiconn: i've got a half broken 3G here
20:17:36	saratoga	i'll try and test now
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20:19:42	saratoga	how do i adjust the contrast on the 3G? the screen is solid dark
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20:20:20	amiconn	saratoga: Eh? What build are you running?
20:20:50	amiconn	You could connect the G3 and edit config.cfg if you cannot do it blindly
20:21:21	amiconn	You could also try to reset settings - perhaps you have a high contrast value from an old build set
20:21:44	amiconn	Newer builds should need lower contrast values, due to a better lcd controller setup
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20:25:28	saratoga	there we go, i'd forgotten how nice it is to have a screen that works without a backlight
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20:29:59	saratoga	amiconn: WMA_192K=184.97%, Vorbis_192k=184.40%
20:30:31	saratoga	just need to find the 192k mp3 sample
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20:34:18	linuxstb	saratoga: The build table is still a little red...
20:37:51	saratoga	fixed
20:38:00	saratoga	also, wma is faster on pp5002
20:38:35	saratoga	at least at 192k (169.9%)
20:38:54	midgey	Bagder: around?
20:39:15	amiconn	saratoga: What is that number? WMA without your commit, or mp3?
20:39:59	saratoga	mp3 is 169.9% vs wma at 185%
20:40:31	saratoga	libmad is just slow in general on arm for whatever reason
20:41:00	amiconn	ah
20:41:18	amiconn	I know that libmad is slow on arm, but somehow thought vorbis would be slower
20:41:49	saratoga	vorbis is actually really fast, mostly because of its very good imdct
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20:42:12	saratoga	i think if it were moved to faad, that codec would probably be much faster then mp3 too
20:42:16	amiconn	Btw, these results help making that old study regarding vorbis on PP5002 look even more funny
20:42:33	linuxstb	saratoga: What are the figures for the three codecs on pp502x?
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20:43:09	saratoga	(from memory) 192k: mp3: 200%, vorbis 240%, wma: 250%
20:43:10	linuxstb	Also, is there any difference in the relative speeds at lower bitrates? e.g. 128kbps?
20:43:34	saratoga	they all get faster at lower bitrates, but I never compared them head to head on the same sample
20:43:47	saratoga	the codecPerformanceComparison wiki page should have that info though
20:43:55	*	linuxstb goes to RTFW
20:44:06	saratoga	though its getting out of date
20:44:39	bluebrother	hmm, what do people think about adding a spec file to rbutil sources for building a rpm? I might give it a go ...
20:44:48	linuxstb	That page doesn't make it easy to compare things...
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20:47:27	linuxstb	bluebrother: Do people still use rpm-based distros?
20:47:30		Quit thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:48:23	bluebrother	me does ... ;-)
20:48:44	bluebrother	and I think quite a bunch of people do too
20:49:11	linuxstb	OK :) It's just that I only hear people mention Ubuntu and Debian around here...
20:49:27	saratoga	wow the coldfire aac numbers are insanely bad
20:49:45	bluebrother	you won't make me switch to ubuntu or debian. I don't like both of them ...
20:49:56	saratoga	ape c2000 is faster then 192k AAC-LC
20:51:48	*	scorche\|sh seems to remember a fedora sticker at devcon
20:53:27	bluebrother	scorche\|sh: it was a redhat sticker (had it lying around back the time I wanted to cover this nasty scratch on my laptop ;-)
20:55:31	Lear	saratoga: Only real optimization made is to put stuff into iram, as far as I know. Made it usable at least.
20:55:40	linuxstb	bluebrother: But going back to your question, various binary packages for rbutil can only be a good thing....
20:56:58	*	Lear recalls AAC improving noticeably with a newer GCC on arm...
20:59:18	saratoga	Lear: really? how much
21:00
21:00:11	Lear	Don't remember exactly, but I think it was something like 20-30%.
21:00:24	Lear	That was on a 4.3 snapshot though.
21:02:44	saratoga	that wouldn't surprise me, we use so much ASM in the codecs mostly because gcc does dumb things
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21:49:36	saratoga	using the vorbis imdct in libfaad would save about 7 MHz, boosting it from about 47MHz to 40MHz for real time on PP5024, though the gain might be better on Coldfire
21:50:12	saratoga	would basically make it about as fast as MP3 on PP
21:54:27	Lear	Any idea why the FFT is slow?
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21:56:30	Lear	(Trying to building gcc 4.3.1 btw...)
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21:58:54	linuxstb	Is there a Coldfire version of the faad IMDCT?
21:59:08		Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
21:59:09	saratoga	linuxstb: theres a c version only
21:59:25	linuxstb	So presumably that alone would be a huge improvement?
22:00
22:00:10	saratoga	yes
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22:00:57	saratoga	though the rest of the codec is still fairly slow, so the gain isn't as huge as you might expect
22:01:13	saratoga	but that could be fixed easily enough
22:02:27	Lear	Btw, ffmpeg AAC is actively worked on, afaik. LC-AAC should be fairly complete, with SBR in the works. Not fixed point though...
22:03:00	saratoga	faad is actually worked on a little too, just we don't bother merging in improvements
22:04:33	linuxstb	I think working on faad is more useful than waiting for ffmpeg's implementation to be complete, and then porting to fixed-point...
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22:15:13	Lear	Hm, "impossible constraints" in libdemac with gcc 4.3.1...
22:16:51	linuxstb	Which CPU?
22:18:28		Quit jpt9 (Remote closed the connection)
22:18:54	Lear	Sansa e200, is that PP5024 or something? The version that isn't arm7 specific compiles. Dunno if it works though.
22:19:41	Lear	The problem was in the vector_math16 header included from filter.c.
22:20:23	saratoga	sansas are pp5024 and are generic armv4 (and also an arm7tdmi core)
22:20:38	amiconn	Gcc sometimes cannot cope with demanding in/out constraints in asm() blocks
22:20:57	amiconn	...especially at higher optimisation levels
22:23:57	*	preglow enjoys this codec optimization talk
22:24:31	Lear	Because you don't need to do anything? :)
22:24:37		Quit SirFunk_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:25:34	amiconn	The constraints in vector_math16_arm7.h are rather demanding, but then the implementation is also quite a bit more efficient than C
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22:29:16	preglow	Lear: haha, no, i actually wish i could do something, i just like that there's a focus on it and work being done
22:30:04	preglow	i'm going on vacation for a week now, and need to get the bloody d2 stuff going anyway, so can't work on it
22:30:39	*	linuxstb recalls the 5% realtime that libmad first ran at on coldfire, and thinks preglow has done enough (apologies to others who may have helped with that...)
22:31:00	preglow	the first bout of optimization isn't really much work...
22:31:09	preglow	iram, small asm
22:31:40	linuxstb	Clocking the CPU to 124MHz...
22:32:04	preglow	heh
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22:33:07	Lear	Ouch, libmad and gcc 4.3.1 doesn't like each other. "Prefetch abort"...
22:33:55	preglow	bah
22:33:57	preglow	bloody gcc
22:34:10	preglow	Lear: would be interesting if you found out why, though
22:34:27	preglow	linuxstb: as a matter of fact, libmad on coldfire was a bit of work, but it was my first real embedded work ever, so...
22:35:11	Lear	I'll see if I can pinpoint it at least.
22:35:13	preglow	shotofadds: pounded on the bloody sd driver again now, and can't get it to receive data no matter what i bloody do
22:35:26	preglow	it's really starting to piss me off
22:36:42	Lear	Pretty much the same speed for faad, unfortunately.
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22:38:14	shotofadds	preglow: can't receive data? try writing instead :-P
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22:38:57	shotofadds	sounds like a bit of a nightmare, that driver.. I suppose you've done the OF disassembly to death by now?
22:41:32	Lear	Hm, the prefetch abort just says the address 40016FD8, which doesn't tell me all that much...
22:42:04	bertrik	tha
22:42:21	bertrik	ts somewhere in RAM IIRC, can't you look that up in the mapfile?
22:43:23	Lear	The closest in the map is 4000979c, which is stackend...
22:43:56	Lear	Didn't check the codec map though...
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22:45:29	Lear	Still after iend in the codec map.
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22:52:14	preglow	shotofadds: yeah..
22:52:23	preglow	brb
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23:00
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23:10:13	shotofadds	I've just written a quick-n-dirty Windows program to write raw sectors with known values to the first 16Mb of the m200's flash, along with some Rockbox code to test reading those sectors with the Telechips NAND driver. The result?
23:10:32	shotofadds	Not a single failure. Time for a longer test....
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23:13:09	*	bertrik is slowly making some sense of sansa c200 charging
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23:25:26	Strife89	Okay, I'm going WAY out on a limb here: Does anyone know which file (in the source) controls fading?
23:25:53	preglow	shotofadds: but will it work on d2? :>
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23:49:22	shotofadds	preglow: yeah, they're using the same code (current SVN). From what I've seen so far there's barely any difference from the D2 scheme. Further testing will have to wait til tomorrow...
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23:50:22	preglow	shotofadds: would be extremely cool if it worked
23:50:43	preglow	i'll throw myself at sd again when i get back in a week
23:50:59	preglow	so i can start coding something more audio related soon :>
23:51:53	shotofadds	well, that's one reason to get it working :)
23:54:59		Quit ender` (" It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn")
23:56:33	shotofadds	preglow: believe it or not, it's now 6 months since the first D2 commit, so it's about time I got this damned NAND driver working.. I'm determined to get some improvements done in the next couple of weeks. Add in some SD magic and things could be looking up :-)
23:58:03		Quit Zarggg (Success)

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