#rockbox 2008-08-06

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#rockbox log for 2008-08-06

00:00:31		Join MarcGuay [0] (n=chatzill@ip216-239-86-254.vif.net)
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00:03:24	*	amiconn wonders what feature petur is talking about
00:03:40	petur	?
00:05:50	amiconn	The 'remote disabled' thing...
00:05:59	petur	ah
00:06:30	petur	in the rec screen, you can disable remote updating for those who still have noise
00:06:39	petur	something Mmmm added I think
00:06:51	amiconn	Ah, hmm, that thing
00:07:09	petur	it works 50% now: the list keeps getting updated, but only if you change something, so not too bad
00:07:15		Join neddy1 [0] (n=john@nat/sun/x-ef53f81f6c998216)
00:07:18	petur	I'll leave it like that for now
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00:08:30	*	petur puts up a new patch, notes there is a remaining issue and walks to the bedroom
00:08:38		Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:08:59	MarcGuay	petur: Testing rec_v16.
00:09:37	MarcGuay	Grr. :)
00:13:29		Join vort3x [0] (n=vortex@unaffiliated/dfa001)
00:13:53	MarcGuay	I find the filename looks a bit odd where it is now, but I understand your reasoning for it and can't think of anything better.
00:14:49	MarcGuay	User instinct says "I can select it, now what can I do with it?"
00:16:16	pixelma	it was a bit of a compromise. We discussed here that having the filename line in the static part takes away precious space on the 64 pixels high displays - and was disabled for those for this reason. In current SVN it is shown though (IMO a bug but if this screen goes anyway)
00:17:06	amiconn	Why is it selectable?
00:17:16		Quit ender` (" Good programmers treat Microsoft products as damage and route around them.")
00:17:17	pixelma	if it's in the list, it is your choice if you want to see that or some other lines in the list part. But I agree on the "selectable"
00:17:31	pixelma	it's not, but it could feel this way
00:18:01	pixelma	^amiconn
00:18:42	amiconn	Maybe lists need a way to have 'disabled' items, in addition to the overall read-only list option
00:18:50		Quit cbr\|w (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:19:22	amiconn	Otoh it might be confusing if the bar suddenly disappears
00:19:43	bluebrother	greyed out item? Would be an idea, at least on color targets.
00:20:03	pixelma	amiconn: and to select them makes them scroll...
00:20:21	bluebrother	I think I'd prefer a greyed out item than one that vanises (like the "recent bookmarks" entry in the main menu)
00:20:22	amiconn	It doesn't need to be greyed out, just the selection bar wouldn't appear on it
00:20:24	pixelma	or at least it shoulf
00:20:29	pixelma	*should too
00:20:44		Quit robin0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:20:45	amiconn	Greying out won't work on 1-bit displays
00:21:05	MarcGuay	I'd rather have an oddly selectable item than a disappearing item.
00:21:10	bluebrother	yep, as I said: on color targets ...
00:21:25	rasher	Wouldn't it make more sense to skip it, and select the next item, rather than making the bar disappear?
00:21:35	bluebrother	thinking of the odd greys of the h100 it might also not be the best idea to use greys there.
00:21:38	MarcGuay	What about non-selectable, always scrolling, first item in list?
00:21:46	amiconn	Greying out has another problem: how do you derive the colour to use, with all the theming stuff?
00:21:53	pixelma	MarcGuay: the item wouldn't disappear just the bar
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00:22:23	bluebrother	well, the bar could become an outline instead. That would make some "grey" even on b/w targets.
00:22:41	bluebrother	could be problematic with too tiny fonts though.
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00:23:04	bluebrother	s/outline/border/
00:23:33	amiconn	There's another problem with making the bar disappear (or outline, whatever): how to handle the pointer cursor case?
00:23:49	pixelma	or gradient bars
00:24:38	pixelma	MarcGuay: hopefully such an item wouldn't be staticly on one line otherwise you will have the same problem again in the recording screen
00:26:14	rasher	amiconn: Why not just skip the item and select the next?
00:26:17	amiconn	An always scrolling item would cause another problem wrt freezing the remote lcd
00:26:38	rasher	I don't think there has to be a visual clue
00:26:40	amiconn	rasher: The list should still be navigatable the standard way
00:27:12	amiconn	If you just skip the disabled line, it would be unreadable if the list (e.g. in the recording screen) collapses to a single line
00:27:32	rasher	I don't see how that makes any sort of sense.
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00:28:12	amiconn	rasher: The recording screen patch uses a list for a lot of information
00:28:21	Zambezi	Will Rockbox work with a hacked iPod? Like if I'm replacing the harddrive in iPod Mini 2gen with a CF-card?
00:28:22		Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
00:28:28	amiconn	Some line are read-only info, some others are settings (e.g. gain)
00:29:12	pixelma	I don't understand that collapsing thing either
00:29:39	amiconn	pixelma: Large font on a small screen (e.g. a user with low vision)
00:30:03	rasher	What makes the line unreadable though?
00:30:16	pixelma	well, I think I slowly get it now
00:30:49	rasher	Ah, I guess if you have multiple lines next to eachother
00:30:58	amiconn	rasher: The list code tries to keep the cursor visible. If the list only shows a single line, and it skips 'disabled' (read only) lines (our proposal) those lines would never become visible
00:31:02	MarcGuay	<pixelma>MarcGuay: the item wouldn't disappear just the bar −−- I meant the bar, pardon my poor wording.
00:31:11	amiconn	s/our/your/
00:31:25	pixelma	the problem is the case where the list is only one line high and there's one line not selectable... or?
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00:33:54	MarcGuay	Zambezi: It should. Check out the hardware section of the docs index, there are a few pages dealing with that.
00:34:37	amiconn	It does. I have a mini 2nd Gen modded with a 32GB CF card, running rockbox
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00:35:53	amiconn	The OF also works just fine with that (as far as I can test, i.e. just the gui)
00:36:02	Zambezi	amiconn: That's exactly what I'm planning to do. 32 GB vs 4 GB will be a major difference.
00:37:08	Zambezi	amiconn: I just need a heatgun to. I think the mod is possible to do even if I just made one tricky mod.
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00:40:28	MarcGuay	petur: Regarding the original comment for the recscreen, the status bar now enables and disables nicely. Thanks.
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00:51:35	WerderCanuck	hi everyone. can somebody help me getting rockbox on my sansa c240? i use the rockbox utility, but when i select complete installation it downloads the bootloader but then i get an error, saying "failed to add bootloader"
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00:56:30	BigBambi	WerderCanuck: What is the original firmware version?
00:57:22	WerderCanuck	the newest one 1.0.0.7 i think
00:57:44	BigBambi	That one isn't recognised by the released version of rbutil/sansapatcher
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00:58:08	BigBambi	You will either need to build a newer version from the source, or downgrade the sansa firmware
00:58:25	pixelma	1.00.07 or 1.01.07... ;)
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00:59:05	*	pixelma adds a question mark
00:59:19	WerderCanuck	not exactly sure how to check the correct firmware version in msc mode...
00:59:29	BigBambi	It is in system somewhere
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01:00:13	BigBambi	settings - system info
01:00:26	BigBambi	(in the OF)
01:01:02	WerderCanuck	1.01.07
01:01:36	BigBambi	So my previous comment applies
01:02:07	WerderCanuck	how do i downgrade then?
01:03:03	BigBambi	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaC200Port#Sansapatcher_isn_t_finding_my_c2
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01:10:21	n9xvt	found a page omission,,
01:10:27	n9xvt	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SpareParts
01:10:57	n9xvt	missing sansa c series parts and wanted?,,maybe
01:11:23	BigBambi	Well, it is a wiki so feel free, but until someone has some is there much point?
01:11:25	gevaerts	n9xvt: the first person to have or want parts can add that
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01:12:06	n9xvt	understood,,srry
01:12:58	n9xvt	i'm learning mre and moe lte time,,,lolz
01:13:07	BigBambi	Please use proper English
01:13:31	n9xvt	stupid wireless keyboard,,
01:13:58	WerderCanuck	so, downgraded to 1.01.06 and connected in msc mode. just start the utility and select auto complete installation?
01:14:08	BigBambi	Hopefully :)
01:15:10	WerderCanuck	installation working now. thanks for your help BigBambi
01:15:19	BigBambi	no problem, glad you got it working
01:15:34	BigBambi	The next version of rbutil will work directly with 1.01.07
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01:19:09	preglow	anyone planning on a lang file cleanup before release?
01:20:29	WerderCanuck	hmmm cant find my music...
01:20:45	BigBambi	What USB mode did you copy it there in
01:20:56	WerderCanuck	auto
01:21:02	BigBambi	You need to do it in MSC
01:21:19		Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection)
01:21:31	BigBambi	And don't put it in the music folder - the OF hides that everytime you boot it which is annoying
01:21:38	BigBambi	Use anything else e.g. audio
01:21:52	gevaerts	Or just set rockbox to show everything :)
01:22:03	BigBambi	Or that
01:22:13	BigBambi	Either way, music transferred in MTP won't show up
01:22:56	WerderCanuck	no biggie, i'll just copy the music back to HD, delete and switch to msc
01:23:03	n9xvt	ok well i'll have to register for wiki,,but tonight i've got a full plate,,just popped in to get the latest info-update-ed files,,,
01:24:27	n9xvt	how do you set it to show everything?,,I just go find the stuff i want from "files" in the main menu?
01:24:43	BigBambi	The manual will tell you that
01:24:51	BigBambi	You want the file view setting
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01:44:23	WerderCanuck	do i have to boot into OF when im just charging?
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01:45:47	JdGordon	pixelma: MarcGuay: imo if there is enough room for say 4 lines in the list part, the filename should go at the top of the screen and not in the list
01:50:04	Soap	Anyone feel more qualified than I to start the WhyRealNames wiki page?
01:50:22	Soap	BigBambi? MarcGuay? Both you two have a way with words.
01:51:54	BigBambi	Soap: I'm just off to bed, but I'm travelling tomorrow so have lots of time to do stuff like that. I'll have a bash tomorrow if nobody already has
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02:41:23	allele	llorean, you mentioned that plugins that take up too much ram will interrupt playback. would combining integers (instead of x and y int coord xxxyyy) reduce the amount of ram needed?
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02:51:20	Soap	Zambezi, what part of the mod do you need a torch for?
02:51:49	Soap	(Or do you mean "torch" an in what yanks call "flashlights")?
02:53:19	JdGordon	allele: not enough to make a difference... and could make it worse
02:54:54	allele	fair enough, any other solutions out there that might help?
02:56:07	allele	I was thinking about the possibility of a pseudo swap file, but that's not good for flash based memory
02:56:57	Soap	rasher, (or someone else) - can I have some context clues for attempting to translate "LANG_AGC_DJSET"?
02:57:22	Soap	"DJ-Set (slow)" doesn't parse in my mind well. Trying to relay the context to a Japanese speaker.
02:58:41	Soap	I guess, part of the question is - what is the difference between the "DJ-set" slow responding AGC setting and the "Live" slow responding AGC setting?
03:00
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03:00:47	Zambezi	Soap: I just said I need a heatgun, but I haven't looked on the details yet. I won't before I can afford to buy the CF-card.
03:03:07	Soap	that's right - heatgun - what for?
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03:07:38	allele	jdGordon: my plugin uses a couple fairly large matrices, do you think it would make a difference if I had each one in its own plugin and just called it from the main plugin?
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03:13:55	Zambezi	Soap: Maybe it said Hot gluegun. That might explain it. ;-)
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03:31:10	linuxstb	allele: How much RAM does your plugin need? Do you get an error when you try and compile it?
03:32:36	allele	no, it compiles fine and runs fine, but its not able to play music while in use
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03:33:36	linuxstb	allele: Are you calling the function to use the audio buffer in your plugin?
03:34:05	allele	no, that could be my problem
03:34:22	linuxstb	No, that's not the problem... If you're not calling it, audio playback should continue.
03:34:30	allele	oh
03:34:35	linuxstb	Are you calling rb->yield() at all?
03:34:44	allele	no
03:35:30	allele	could that be it?
03:35:33	linuxstb	Rockbox uses co-operative multi-tasking, so if you don't call yield (or sleep, or core functions which call either of them), then you will hog the CPU
03:36:24	allele	alright, I'll look into that then, thank you :D
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05:40:50	MrWizeGuy1983	is this room for mp3 player support on linux?
05:41:53	tessarakt	hm?
05:41:56	tessarakt	not really
05:42:04	MrWizeGuy1983	oh, someone said i should go here
05:42:05	MrWizeGuy1983	oops
05:42:10	MrWizeGuy1983	any idea where i can go?
05:42:16	tessarakt	it's for an alternative MP3 player firmware named Rockbox
05:42:26	tessarakt	which for all I know is not Linux-based
05:42:33	MrWizeGuy1983	didn't know
05:42:42	tessarakt	never mind
05:43:00	MrWizeGuy1983	any idea where i should go for help getting my mp3 player to work on ubuntu? the people in the ubuntu room didn't know
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07:15:57	cjesu_halo	I would like to have an information on rockbox for the sansa e200 series but V2
07:16:21	cjesu_halo	it is very hard to follow it's devellopemen
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09:10:44	rasher	Soap: "DJ-Set (slow)" is an AGC setting
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09:11:55	vitja	Hi
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09:12:16	vitja	linuxstb, I want to submit patch with basic iaudio7 support
09:12:27	vitja	linuxstb, where can I send it?
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09:16:05	pixelma	preglow: in the norsk.lang update you committed, there now seem to be some already strings missing now (probably the ones that had "" instead of none in the default part but already something in 'featurexyz:', the latter is missing)
09:16:17	GodEater	vitja: place in on the patch tracker
09:16:23	GodEater	s/in/it
09:16:32	vitja	okay
09:17:57	vitja	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/ gives me a blank page
09:19:36	GodEater	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/index.php?type=4
09:19:37	GodEater	try that
09:20:21	vitja	thx)
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09:32:32	pixelma	preglow: I meant some "already translated strings"
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09:42:17	rasher	pixelma: Seems like there's a problem with my script then, can you give an example ID?
09:43:36	pixelma	isn't that the thing you explained yesterday to me? See the first 2 phrases in the diff
09:44:49	rasher	pixelma: Those are voice strings that shouldn't be there (because they aren't used)
09:47:36	rasher	english.lang doesn't define a voice string for LANG_CONFIRM_SHUTDOWN
09:48:10	pixelma	oh, sorry then (to preglow too). Should've checked...
09:51:40	rasher	Better to notify us of something that isn't a problem, that not notify us of something that is a problem
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11:10:45	robin0800	charge_e200_17614.patch seems to be missing in the tracker can't find it in opened or closed patches
11:12:09	Zagor	robin0800: do you know which task it is supposed to be attached to?
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11:13:36	robin0800	Batterry/charging
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11:14:47	Zagor	i mean which task number
11:15:04	robin0800	It was a proof of concept perhaps the author's withdrawn it
11:15:17	robin0800	17614
11:16:31	Zagor	there is no task number 17614
11:16:53	Zagor	did you mean svn revision?
11:17:24	Zagor	basically, where did you hear about this file and that it is supposed to be in our tracker?
11:19:20	robin0800	It was in patches I have the patch but it doesn't seem to work I was checking for an update before posting comments
11:22:20	pixelma	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8363
11:22:39	pixelma	just played around with some search strings
11:24:22	Zagor	pixelma: thanks
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11:25:26	robin0800	thank you the other number is a revision number not the patch
11:25:46	*	pixelma hands robin0800 some punctuation
11:27:10	gevaerts	What's wrong with that attachment? I can get it just fine
11:27:56	pixelma	he didn't find it when searching for the xyz.patch string
11:28:30	pixelma	maybe flyspray doesn't search the name of attached files
11:28:49	robin0800	No update, dosn't look like rockbox is going to have charging for the sansa any time soon
11:29:50	petur	the patch doesn't work or doesn't apply?
11:29:56	gevaerts	No new patch maybe, but the latest comments show a clear plan, and are only five days old...
11:30:00	robin0800	Usb mass storage I tried as well, this also dosn't work
11:30:33	gevaerts	tried in what way? What doesn't work?
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11:32:06	robin0800	The Patch applies fine, no errors, Wps shows charging. Left on overnight no change in battery level
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11:32:20	gevaerts	I mean Usb mass storage
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11:36:06	robin0800	Usb mass storage, can be enabled, windows finds the two usb devices, is very slow to open the micro hdsc card and updating rockbox copying the .rockbox folder falls over and is slow
11:37:12	gevaerts	So not exactly "doesn't work" then...
11:37:25	gevaerts	Have you tried a different usb port?
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11:39:35	robin0800	gevaerts, no but I wired my front usb ports and they work perfectly, at fullspeed and never see any errors
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11:40:25	robin0800	gevaerts,errors until this problem
11:42:29	gevaerts	There still are some problems that make usb work badly with some usb ports.
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11:46:16	robin0800	gevaerts,this patch FS #8562 - USB storage driver work, may help don't know
11:46:31	gevaerts	No. Everything there is in svn
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11:49:24	robin0800	FS #8562 is not closed and don't think its been commited
11:49:48	gevaerts	Look, I wrote the code, so I know what's been committed or not for this
11:50:49	menollo	sudo su -l nalar
11:50:53	robin0800	gevaerts,sorry why is patch still open?
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11:51:32	gevaerts	To have a place to put new experimental patches that try to solve these issues. No sense in opening new tasks every week
11:52:18	robin0800	gevaerts,so is this patch needed?
11:52:53	gevaerts	There is currently no patch that contains code not in svn
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11:54:52	robin0800	gevaerts,so you only have to enable Mass Storage as per http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortalPlayerUsb#Enabling_mass_storage_support correct?
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11:59:03	gevaerts	Yes
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12:06:39	Bagder	fs#9245!
12:08:07	linuxstb	Bagder: Yes, it looks good - I've a couple of very minor comments, but will try and commit tonight.
12:08:18	Bagder	very nice to see
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12:18:08	Soap	rasher, I totally grok that "DJ-Set (slow)" is an AGC setting - how is it different than "Live (slow)"?
12:19:32	Soap	Is the only difference the target headroom?
12:21:45	Soap	I ask because I'm helping a friend with context for the Japanese translation. Looking over the manual again, I'm thinking perhaps the goal for the AGC settings should be as literal of a translation as possible and let the manual explain what they mean vs a "descriptive" translation - which makes my question null and void.
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12:55:14	jmspeex	preglow: ping
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13:24:24	petur	Soap: I'm not a big fan of those AGC settings names either
13:24:52	petur	and, btw, do not let him translate the sysfont variants of them, they will be gone very soon :)
13:28:25	amiconn	petur: Regarding you remote freeze problem - do you think it would make sense to have a general lcd_remote_freeze(bool on) function?
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13:29:11	amiconn	This would just make any lcd_remote_update[_rect]() call effectively do nothing (and issue an lcd_remote_update() on unfreeze)
13:29:31	petur	amiconn: yes, that would be a mich nicer solution. But not in this patch ;)
13:31:47	petur	ehm *much
13:31:50	amiconn	The same solution could be applied to the main lcd on archoses with radio (radio screen has a freeze option there, as the lcd updates interfere with reception: reportedly noticeable on recorder fm (samsung tuner), very noticeable on Ondio FM with samsung tuner, and sometimes noticeable on Ondio FM with philips tuner)
13:32:30	petur	didn't know that...
13:32:53	amiconn	The samsung tuner is very sensitive to interference, much more than the philips
13:33:18	amiconn	Ondio FM with old tuner is more affected than the fmrecorder because everything is packed more closely together
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13:37:05	amiconn	The samsung tuner is so sensitive that it even picks up interference from the MAS PLL if the reception frequency is an integer multiple of it (usually 4x MAS_PLL_FREQ falls into the FM reception range). Due to this, the archos OF (and rockbox too) slightly shifts the mas pll frequency away if you tune to a multiple of it
13:37:30	amiconn	This causes a slight pitch shift if you then record from fm, but still better than having the interference...
13:37:47	petur	wow...
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13:48:50	wpyh	anyone working on the onda port?
13:49:02	wpyh	I've made some dicoveries regarding the vx767
13:54:41	wpyh	no one? ok
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13:55:36	wpyh	mcuelenaere: the 65 MB device exposed by the vx767 is actually an IHFS image. I've looked at it and understood the format (except for some minor details). do you want to take a look?
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14:03:07	wpyh	mcuelenare: so if I'm right, the recovery procedure is as follows: 1. the device is plugged in in the "jz boot device" mode, 2. send some binary files to device (like the "usbtool 6" procedure, but I need to look at the logs first), 3. the device resets itself and comes up as a mass storage device, with a size of 65 MB, 4. write the IHFS image, 5. disconnect the device, it will boot from the IHFS image
14:03:21	wpyh	the IHFS image contains the same set of files as the firmware upgrade (HXF) file
14:03:44	wpyh	I've written a tool to split an IHFS image, but I haven't written one to create one yet :p
14:04:34	wpyh	and btw, I find that VirtualBox (the closed source edition) is useful in this case −− it can almost correctly emulate the usb, so I can examine and restore the device on Linux :)
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14:14:09	wpyh	and one more thing: IHFS is actually more like an archive format (like tar) rather than a filesystem
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14:28:27	mcuelenaere	wpyh: very interesting :)
14:28:47	mcuelenaere	bah he just left
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14:56:58	jmworx	preglow: ping
14:58:58	mcuelenaere	wpyh (if you read logs): does the IHFS resemble the HXF structure completely perhaps? if so, there are tools for it to extract and join in SVN..
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15:38:02	preglow	jmworx: yo
15:38:42	preglow	pixelma: like which?
15:38:44	jmworx	preglow: I'm trying to do some footprint reduction in Speex and I was curious to know whether you'd done anything for that
15:39:05	preglow	jmworx: hmm, no, nothing you could reuse, speex is already plenty small enough for us :)
15:39:10	pixelma	preglow: ignore that
15:39:19	preglow	pixelma: can do ;)
15:39:55	jmworx	preglow: in case it's useful, I'm also trying to have the modes "self-contained", i.e. to only allocate a single block
15:40:31	preglow	this reminds me i haven't synced rockbox speex in a while
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16:09:01	mcuelenaere	I have some questions regarding Rockbox's GPLv2 and Creative's copyright
16:09:10	mcuelenaere	http://pastebin.com/d6ca060f3 is a copy of it
16:09:23	mcuelenaere	look at 10. Decompiling, Disassembling, or Reverse Engineering
16:09:39	mcuelenaere	they state "you may not decompile, (..) or engage in any other activities to obtain underlying information that is not visible to the user in connection with normal use of the Software"
16:09:48	mcuelenaere	could this be a problem?
16:11:05	petur	for you as a person, maybe. You shouldn't post disassembled stuff on the net...
16:11:48	petur	but in some countries this probably doesn't apply...
16:12:15	LinusN	what software is this?
16:12:39	mcuelenaere	you need to Agree to this when download Firmware upgrades for Creative devices
16:12:47	mcuelenaere	downloading*
16:13:10	mcuelenaere	petur: hmm then I should delete some posts in the Rockbox wiko
16:13:12	mcuelenaere	wiki*
16:13:46	petur	Doesn't Sweden allow RE?
16:13:48	mcuelenaere	or is it legal to just link to pastebin?
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16:40:37	petur	not any more :)
16:40:37	webguest58	petur: ok
16:40:37	webguest58	:)
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16:42:12	mcuelenaere	webguest58: regarding your question, I suppose you already have a dev environment set up and checked SVN sources out?
16:43:15	webguest58	mcuelenaere: good supositions
16:44:07	petur	webguest58: check the wiki, there is this 'For Developers' section that has a lot of info
16:45:05	linuxstb	webguest58: Read the README file in the sansapatcher source directory. If you want to cross-compile sansapatcher.exe from Linux, you need to the install the "mingw32" cross-compiler and then type "make sansapatcher.exe"
16:45:47	webguest58	petur: I searched a bit for sansapatcher but didn't find...
16:46:03	mcuelenaere	webguest58: like linuxstb said, the README says it all
16:46:14	webguest58	linuxstb:ok, I'am reading
16:46:39	rasher	petur: Perhaps the AGC modes should be named more descriptively, rather than with an example
16:47:22	webguest58	all is here, thanks to you
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16:48:44	petur	rasher: agreed - but will look at it after the recscreen changes, otherwise it is too many changes at once
16:49:13	jmworx	preglow: what did you do about disabling the encoder?
16:49:30	jmworx	(I'm currently adding a bunch of #ifdefs)
16:50:42	jvm_	hi. i tried to build rockbox from svn for an arm architecture (ipod nano); the uisimulator built successfully, but when i chose 'Normal', i get this error while compiling: /usr/local/arm-elf/lib/gcc/arm-elf/4.0.3/../../../../arm-elf/bin/ld: /home/jvm/Desktop/rockbox/build/apps/lang.o: Relocations in generic ELF (EM: 3); /home/jvm/Desktop/rockbox/build/apps/lang.o: could not read symbols: File in wrong format
16:51:03	jvm_	i would be grateful for any hints?
16:51:34	gevaerts	Did you run make clean between the uisimulator and normal builds ?
16:51:42	jvm_	no.
16:51:44	jvm_	let me try.
16:52:30	petur	jvm_: it is best to build sim and target in different directories
16:52:59		Quit midkay (Connection timed out)
16:53:13	jvm_	petur, thanks for the info. maybe it would be a good idea to underline this a little bit more in the manual.
16:53:48	petur	manual or wiki? You can get wiki write access if you want ;)
16:55:53	webguest58	is that normal that I have warnings when building sansas bootloader?
16:56:07	webguest58	fresh svn, no patches
16:56:43	mcuelenaere	webguest58: I don't think so: http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi
16:57:17	gevaerts	webguest58: did you run configure before setting the PATH correctly ?
16:58:00	webguest58	I typed configure when I was in the good direectorie
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16:58:53	webguest58	errors in lcd_yux_420_lines function
16:59:00	webguest58	*yuv
16:59:56	webguest58	multiple definition of lcd_write_yuv_420_lines ...
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17:30:20	preglow	jmworx: didn't do much but just stuff in a bunch of ifdefs myself
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18:36:52	mcuelenaere	ah yes gevaerts: there was someone (vitja) a couple of days agoo who asked for some USB porting help for the TCC7x targets (iAudio 7)
18:37:11	mcuelenaere	I don't know if he still has problems or how far he got, but if he shows up..
18:37:30	gevaerts	Yes, linuxstb told me.
18:37:38	mcuelenaere	ok
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18:43:35	rasher	amiconn: Seen the updates in FS #9148? I'm pretty sure he's having some sort of multibyte problem with his TTS engine or Windows, but I can't quite grok what
18:44:29	amiconn	no
18:44:44	amiconn	Why the flaming hell does email notification from the tracker not work?
18:45:11	rasher	I seem to be getting the mails
18:45:35	pixelma	works for me too
18:45:36	rasher	Now he added escaping to voice.pl, which is likely to break other languages, I presume
18:45:46	rasher	And I still don't understand what's going on, really
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18:49:20	amiconn	I don't understand it either. The change in sapi_voice.vbs would break it for all other languages as well
18:49:48	amiconn	Either his japanese.lang isn't utf-8, or japanese windows does something weird I don't know and can't verify either
18:50:57	amiconn	Windows (32 bit and up) always uses unicode internally, but UTF-16
18:51:21	rasher	But we already handle that, right?
18:51:24	amiconn	Our voice files are UTF-8, and passing the strings from perl to vbscript auto-extends them to utf-8
18:51:30	amiconn	Err, utf-16
18:51:57	*	rasher checks the langfile he just uploaded
18:52:05	amiconn	But since windows doesn't know the source is utf-8, it expands the stuff as if it were iso8859-1 (or more precisely, win1252)
18:52:29	rasher	Oh dear. Won't that be it, then?
18:52:49	amiconn	No, that's what UTF8decode() in sapi_voice.vbs is about
18:53:04	rasher	But maybe Japanese windows doesn't assume win1252?
18:53:20	amiconn	Hmm
18:53:25	rasher	Wouldn't be completely surprising, really
18:53:26	amiconn	But what does it assume, then?
18:53:36	amiconn	I wonder what russian windows does here
18:53:49	rasher	The local character set, whichever that is?
18:54:06	amiconn	So far we had no report regarding sapi voice building not working for russian, afaik
18:54:13	rasher	Has anyone tried?
18:54:54	rasher	Also, given that russian is slightly less exotic, it's still somewhat plausible that windows might have different behavior in Japanese
18:55:04	amiconn	The weird thing is that while the windows console can handle utf-8, there is no way (I know of) to set utf-8 support anywhere else
18:55:55	amiconn	And for the windows console, you can only set utf-8 support via a program using it (that's what the win32 sims do), and the console must be using ttf fonts in order for utf-8 support to work
18:55:55	rasher	The language file is certainly in UTF-8
18:56:10	amiconn	hmm
18:56:31	amiconn	I wonder what the extend-to-16-bit-on-passing does on japanese windows, then
18:56:35	rasher	So I suppose we can quite safely assume that his windows is translating from something else?
18:56:59	rasher	Maybe a few test-scripts are in order?
18:57:03	amiconn	I also wonder whether that behaviour can be changed, and how
18:57:51	rasher	I'm not going to be much help there
18:58:19	rasher	Should I go open a new task so we can track that seperately?
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18:59:55	*	rasher does so
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19:00:39	amiconn	The escape idea is in fact not bad - it removes the uncertainty regarding charsets on string passing
19:01:19	*	rasher looks at it again
19:01:47	rasher	Ah, he escapes to byte-values..
19:02:14	amiconn	Yes, and then the change in sapi_voice.vbs makes sense. It's just not very elegant
19:02:25	rasher	That's rather nasty, really :\ But if that's the only way we can be sure Windows gets the right values, I guess that's what we'll have to do
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19:06:30	amiconn	rasher: Does perl have a function to convert utf-8 to utf-16?
19:06:41	rasher	I should hope so
19:06:43	amiconn	This would save us quite some work in the .vbs
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19:07:42	rasher	I do remember that Perl is too clever for its own good when it comes to characters sets though. It might not be as easy as it should be. I'll have a look
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19:12:09	rasher	Ugh, I just discovered an old patch on the tracker that I should've fixed and committed ages ago, related to character sets
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19:13:35	amiconn	Hmm, I wonder whether we can assume perl 5.8 or higher...
19:13:35	rasher	amiconn: Wouldn't correct_string be a reasonable place to do character set conversion? That means we can do it as fine-grained as we like (this one in the tracker needs latin-1 for Viavoice on Linux)
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19:15:14	rasher	amiconn: it was released 6 before the Rockbox project started (or just about). I should hope people have updated by now.
19:15:30	rasher	Scratch the 6
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19:15:43	amiconn	really?
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19:17:01	rasher	5.8.0 2002-Jul-18
19:17:09	rasher	Maybe I have my history wrong, but it was a LONG time ago at any rate
19:17:45	gevaerts	That's three whole weeks after rockbox 1.0
19:18:23	amiconn	wow
19:18:37	*	amiconn thought it was newer, for some reason...
19:19:11	amiconn	My cygwin installation has perl 5.10.0 now, but I do update it frequently...
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19:22:42	rasher	amiconn: Something like this: http://pastebin.ca/1093954 (untested, but the idea)
19:23:26	amiconn	I was thinking about using perl IO layers to set the encoding
19:23:38	amiconn	No additional module or function call needed for this
19:23:50	rasher	But another layer of magic :\
19:24:10	amiconn	If passing plain utf-16 to the script works, everything becomes simpler than it is now
19:24:33	amiconn	http://perl-xml.sourceforge.net/faq/#encoding_conversion
19:25:58	rasher	I guess the encoding layer idea works, but "my" method allows us to do it per-tts (which is needed for FS #8589 which I stumbled over)
19:26:12	rasher	That is, if it actually works. I've no idea if that's the case.
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19:26:55	amiconn	It could still be used per tts
19:28:21	rasher	True. It's unlikely to be needed for a lot of cases anyway.
19:29:06	rasher	Do you want to have a go at it? I don't have a setup to create SAPI voices, and I'm afraid of touching the .vbs anyway
19:29:47	amiconn	I'm trying it as we speak
19:30:04	amiconn	Bah, using // for a comment certainly won't work in vbs...
19:32:49	amiconn	Hmm, that doesn't work...
19:33:11	*	amiconn needs to read up a bit on vbscript and its standard io streams
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19:39:46	amiconn	It might be possible to do this using the FileSystemObject. It allows opening the standard streams in unicode mode
19:39:52	*	amiconn will try this
19:42:48	petur	there is something really weird going on in the viewport code...
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19:43:29	petur	after a few executions a certain call to clear_viewport() is no longer done
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19:45:18	petur	after a gui_syncsplash(0,...) I do a set _viewport() and then clear_viewport() but the splash stays
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19:46:51	amiconn	lcd_update_viewport()?
19:48:35	petur	hmmmm
19:49:03	amiconn	(or the respective screen api thing)
19:49:16	petur	that's it probably... thanks
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19:50:07	globi	hi
19:53:07	rasher	globi: Do you have a question?
19:54:01	globi	rasher: no
19:54:15	LambdaCalculus37	This isn't a social channel.
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20:06:01	amiconn	hmmmm
20:06:22	amiconn	rasher: Perl seems to be unaware that the strings are utf-8
20:06:42	amiconn	Iiuc utf-8 is the standard encoding in perl, so I wonder why...
20:07:06	rasher	amiconn: I guess it doesn't make assumptions for stuff it gets from the outside?
20:07:28	amiconn	I'm not sure how this works
20:07:28	Bagder	exactly
20:07:33	Bagder	use open IN => ':utf8';
20:07:47	Bagder	etc
20:07:55	amiconn	Iiuc the line that reads the voice strings is for (`$cmd`)
20:08:11	amiconn	...i.e. uses backticking and catches the command's stdout?
20:08:38	rasher	And puts it in $_, one line at a time
20:08:43	Bagder	that works, but the line I just posted is needed to tell perl to treat the input as utf8
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20:09:00	amiconn	hmm
20:09:22	amiconn	But if I change this, other tts engines might break
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20:09:57	rasher	I doubt it - the input won't change, Perl will just be AWARE that it's utf8, rather than blindly passing it along
20:10:06	rasher	Again, iiuc.
20:10:08	amiconn	hmm
20:11:12	amiconn	rasher: But then it would need to know it should output utf-8 as well (by default - changeable per engine later)
20:11:47	rasher	Won't it do that by default, then? I'm guessing here though..
20:13:11	amiconn	Why would it do that by default for stdout, but not stdin?
20:13:36	amiconn	I guess these things can't be tested on a recent linux, as linux usually sets utf-8 anyway
20:13:58	Bagder	it's easy to change to any other charset in a terminal
20:14:17	Bagder	I mean encodig
20:15:26	rasher	amiconn: Outputting is different from input, in that perl doesn't have to make assumptions for input. It can simply say "these are bytes, I don't know what they are", but for output, it will default to using UTF8
20:15:38	amiconn	If I do this, in addition to use binmode() to set the encoding for passing data to the vbscript, and using stdin in unicode mode within the vbs, UTF8decode() can go :)
20:16:28	amiconn	That is: use open IN => ':utf8'; at the top, together with the other use ... things
20:16:31	num1	what does LAN_CROSSFEED "Crossfeed" indicate? Is this the time between two songs where both are playing at the same time?
20:16:52	amiconn	binmode(*CMD_IN, ':encoding(utf16)'); in init_tts() for sapi
20:17:29	amiconn	...and using FileSystemObject to get access to STDIN in unicode mode in the .vbs
20:18:13	num1	this whole menu confuses me, Settings->Sound Settings->Crossfeed, what is crossfeed?
20:18:29	amiconn	Now the questions are (1) whether this works on japanese windows and (2) whether this breaks other tts engines
20:18:30	bertrik	crossfeed blends some sound from the left channel into the right channel and vice versa
20:18:54	amiconn	((2) could only be due to the use open IN thing)
20:18:56	num1	also what is dithering? Settings->Sound Settings->Dithering
20:19:03	bertrik	crossfade fades out the old song while fading in a new song
20:20:08	num1	bertrik: thank you. Can you explain what direct gain, cross gain, high frequency attentuation and high-frequency cutoff are?
20:20:20	bertrik	dithering adds a tiny bit of noise to improve effective resolution
20:21:16	num1	bertrik: sorry but that went way over my head
20:21:55	bertrik	num1, isn't it explained in the manual?
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20:25:11	amiconn	And there's indeed a bug in the vbscript regarding the unknown vendor warning
20:25:19	amiconn	It has to be written to stderr, not stdout
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20:38:02	wpyh	mcuelenaere: how unfortunate :p
20:38:34	wpyh	mcuelenaere: I think I'd just put it on pastebin; here's the document describing the IHFS format: http://pastebin.ca/1094015
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20:39:51	wpyh	mcuelenaere: and here's the source for ihfs_split, the tool for splitting an IHFS image into files: http://pastebin.ca/1094017
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20:42:57	wpyh	mcuelenaere: regarding your question: HXF and IHFS are very different; I haven't read the source for HXFsplit, but I can see that it doesn't have the same logic / structure as IHFS... however, they are related (for example, the FW revision/timestamp), so I think it would be useful to have some kind of hxf2ihfs utility
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20:47:00	wpyh	I've also experimented some more with the OF... it will complain if we try to reflash using the same firmware and refuse to flash it. however, I found that if I change the timestamp in the hxf file, then it will reflash the firmware. so I think the timestamp is used to identify same firmware versions and avoid flashing it twice
20:47:13	wpyh	sorry for my bad english, I'm very sleepy right now
20:47:43	AceNik	can anyone help me with a hardware problem i just need 5 minutes in private
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20:48:53	amiconn	rasher: Could you perhaps check something for me (regarding the non-working notifications)?
20:49:10	rasher	amiconn: I can try
20:49:53	amiconn	If you're logged into fs, you can edit your profile by clicking on your name. I'd like to know what 'Notify type' you have set
20:50:15	rasher	amiconn: That's set to Email
20:50:32	wpyh	mcuelenaere: looking at the firmware flashing screen, I think there is even some kind of hxf2ihfs routine inside the firmware :p
20:50:33	amiconn	Interesting. Mine is set to 'None', which explains why I don't get emails.
20:50:35	AceNik	amiconn u have an h10 right ?
20:50:48	rasher	amiconn: That would probably do it yes
20:51:01	amiconn	But I don't understand _why_ it's set to 'None'. It _definitely_ used to work earlier
20:54:21	linuxstb	amiconn: I think the same happened to me - I used to have notifications set to email, then they stopped (probably about 6 months or more ago). But I didn't care, as I subscribe to the mailing list so get them all. Maybe the settings got reset as the result of a flyspray upgrade?
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21:08:35	amiconn	rasher: Patch is up now (I almost overlooked that you've moved the code part to a new task...)
21:09:55	rasher	amiconn: I'll see what I can do to test it
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21:14:25	amiconn	Meh. 'svn diff' is clever enough to cope with both LF and CRLF formatted files. 'patch', however, is not
21:14:54	rasher	amiconn: a buildlog with V=1 seems to suggest it's passing things correctly as UTF8. I can't test the actual voice file though, because I don't have a Danish tts
21:15:46	amiconn	Did 'patch' work for you?
21:15:54	rasher	No problems there
21:15:58	amiconn	I get failed hunks...
21:16:19	agaffney	amiconn: did you try −−ignore-whitespace?
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21:16:29	rasher	Weirdness
21:18:00		Quit jhulst_ (No route to host)
21:19:08	amiconn	Ah, using −−binary does the trick
21:19:18	amiconn	Weird, but if it works...
21:19:24	*	amiconn will add a comment
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21:24:25	amiconn	rasher: V=1 is what I used to test my changes (building a german voice file), and the resulting voice file works properly (including the tts specific corrections)
21:24:41		Quit frinkazoid (Remote closed the connection)
21:25:08	mcuelenaere	wpyh: damn, I missed you again :)
21:25:14	mcuelenaere	(for the logs)
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21:28:25	LambdaCalculus37	scorche: Interested? http://cgi.ebay.com/ARCHOS-JUKEBOX-5000-MP3-PLAYER_W0QQitemZ200243783126QQihZ010QQcategoryZ114618QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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21:49:09	mcuelenaere	wpyh (logs): did you had a chance contacting your friend who's an ex-Ingenic employee?
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22:14:17	*	petur crosses some fingers
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22:17:23	pixelma	are the peakmeters still two lines in every case?
22:17:51	petur	sorry
22:18:12	petur	want it as a setting?
22:19:40	petur	\o/ green :)
22:19:54	*	petur now waits for the green delta
22:20:13	pixelma	it just feels like such a waste on the small screens/with a big font. I don't know, a setting isn't nice either
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22:21:59	*	rasher wonders about the ZVM deltas
22:23:14	petur	something flipped over a boundary?
22:23:38	petur	meh, I thought the gain was more...
22:23:57	rasher	Or some sort of host-dependent thing, check the ZVM 30GB further down
22:24:03	pixelma	seen those jumping in big steps lately (some alignment issue or so?)
22:24:04	mcuelenaere	rasher: it's a known bug
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22:25:07	petur	pixelma: what do you suggest? Have single-line peakmeters if lcd height is below xx ?
22:25:46	pixelma	coldfire targets have the biggest binsize decrease
22:26:50	pixelma	petur: maybe not depending on lcd height but on how many lines fit
22:27:27	pixelma	(if that is possible)
22:27:46	petur	you mean if 4 fit, use 1 line for pm and 1 for list; if 5 fit use 1 for pm and 2 for list,...
22:29:19	petur	anyway, one of the reasons I stuck with 2 lines was because of the optional clipcounter in front of it ;)
22:29:46	petur	and what to do with the trigger bar?
22:30:25	petur	we will be in special screen positioning hell before we know it :(
22:34:26	pixelma	you should see them on the Archos screen (with nedore-9)...
22:34:48	rasher	Shouldn't people in docs/MAINTAINERS be committers, ideally?
22:34:52	pixelma	or maybe on an Iriver remote (though these are at least a bit wider
22:34:55	pixelma	)
22:35:21	rasher	I guess it's not necessary for translation maintainers, it just feels a bit wrong.
22:36:00	petur	pixelma: I checked on my iriver remote and it looked fine
22:36:25	petur	I expect to get requests soon about doubling the height ;)
22:36:54	pixelma	have square peakmeters? :\
22:37:11	pixelma	and nothing else on the screen?
22:41:14	pixelma	petur: imagine the 2 line peakmeters on the Iriver remote to only be 90 pixels wide with the same height, and you'll get a better idea on how they look on an Archos screen
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22:42:24	mcuelenaere	does docs/MAINTAINERS also contain ports-in-progress?
22:45:06	pixelma	petur: I can understand the special casing argument though (same as with the filename line). It just looks wrong (to me) but ok...
22:45:36	petur	pixelma: I will certainly think about a solution
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23:04:26	linuxstb	rasher: Are there many translators in MAINTAINERS but not COMMITTERS? There are two ways to fix that...
23:05:04	rasher	linuxstb: I just noticed the Finnish translator. I don't know if it's a problem, really. It just struck me as odd
23:05:13	Bagder	mcuelenaere: I don't think that would hurt...
23:05:19	mcuelenaere	ok
23:05:25	linuxstb	I agree, it does feel a bit odd. But not a big deal.
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23:25:35	quigon	anyone knows where I can download this file: http://hcs64.com/rockbox/itdb2tc01.zip I'm getting an error as
23:25:35	quigon	Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
23:26:19	Bagder	what is that?
23:27:02	quigon	is a tool to convert an iTunde db to the database of RockBox
23:27:04	quigon	look:
23:27:11	quigon	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ConvertiTunesDBtoTagCache
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23:31:58	bluebrother	quigon: well, you noticed the red note at the top of that page?
23:32:12	quigon	let me see... hehe
23:33:03	quigon	well, great, now I've to see where I find it.
23:33:25	Bagder	quigon: I don't think there exists an updated version
23:33:31	Bagder	and you don't really need one
23:33:52	quigon	Do you think, that I can play the music with out that?
23:34:07	Bagder	rockbox can make its own db from the files you have, yes
23:34:32	quigon	but the things, that this files has randoms names, and are writed in the iTunes DB
23:35:04	Bagder	yes, but you know what? the files still know the artist and title etc
23:35:14	Bagder	by shear magic I hear
23:35:23	Bagder	or was it id3 tags?
23:35:24	quigon	yes, I'm seeing, I've it now
23:35:28		Quit Nibbler ("Ex-Chat")
23:35:45	quigon	I don't know what I touch....
23:35:50	bluebrother	Bagder: no, Rockbox uses a crystal ball ;-)
23:36:08	quigon	lol
23:36:14	Bagder	the very latest crystal ball technology is awesome!
23:36:45	Bagder	quigon: but really, how to make the db is described in the manual
23:37:07	quigon	ok, thanks a lot!
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23:37:20	bluebrother	of course this requires use of a crystal ball, but fortunately Rockbox is capable of doing that for you g
23:37:23	BoD[]	Hello, World!
23:37:45	bluebrother	hmm. There is no user world in this channel ...
23:37:47	BoD[]	Hey can anyone explain to me this sentence on the CustomWPS page: "Note: Viewports can share identifiers so you don't end up with bloated code like %?C<%Vda%Vdb%Vdc\|%Vde%Vdf%Vdg>. "
23:38:16	BoD[]	how can a declaration identifier be shared?
23:38:31	linuxstb	BoD[]: I guess it means you can define two different viewports with the same name
23:38:43	linuxstb	i.e. it's not a unique identifier
23:38:58	BoD[]	ok but then how is it displayed?
23:39:11	linuxstb	%Vda will display all the "a" viewports
23:39:17	BoD[]	ahhhhhh
23:39:23	BoD[]	hmm
23:40:08	linuxstb	I guess a positive example (i.e. what you _can_ do) would have been more useful than an example of what you can't do.
23:41:39	quigon	guys, thanks for the help, I can hear all my Music now!
23:41:44	quigon	may the force be with you!
23:42:09		Quit quigon ("chau")
23:42:22	BoD[]	the thing I don't understand is that the content of the viewport is what is after the viewport display directive
23:42:35	BoD[]	so if you display them all in one directive
23:42:41	BoD[]	then what about the content?
23:42:55		Quit jmworx ("Ex-Chat")
23:43:41	linuxstb	BoD[]: I don't understand what you don't understand... The content of a viewport is what is between two %V (or %Vl) tags.
23:43:54	linuxstb	(or between a %V and the end of the .wps file)
23:44:39	jvm_	i want to develop a simple application for rockbox. any hints where i should start?
23:44:49	BoD[]	I don't know I guess I'm just tired :)
23:44:52	jvm_	is there an api documentation somewhere?
23:44:52	linuxstb	jvm_: apps/plugins/hello_world.c
23:45:17	BoD[]	it's just I've been trying to have a viewport for album art and another one for no album art, and I can't make it work
23:45:18	linuxstb	And the source to the other plugins, and maybe there is some info on the wiki. There is a GraphicsAPI wiki page.
23:45:26	BoD[]	should be simple!
23:45:44	BoD[]	I'll try again tomorrow
23:45:46	linuxstb	BoD[]: Have you tried looking at other WPSs that have that feature?
23:45:52	BoD[]	yes
23:46:08	BoD[]	but they have severa %Vl\|a and I don't get it :))
23:46:12	BoD[]	several
23:46:13	jvm_	what would i have to do to see the hello_world plugin in the rockbox menu?
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23:46:41	linuxstb	jvm_: Add "hello_world.c" to apps/plugins/SOURCES, then compile and install Rockbox.
23:46:59	linuxstb	Or rather, helloworld.c
23:47:21	jvm_	thank you, linuxstb
23:48:15	jvm_	linuxstb, are the stdio file functions supported?
23:48:38	linuxstb	open/read/write are
23:49:32	linuxstb	You need to access all core functions via the plugin api - i.e. "rb->functionname();" See plugin.h for the available functions. We try to be POSIX compliant as much as possible.
23:49:55		Quit bertrik ("Leaving")
23:50:15	linuxstb	If you look on the wiki, I think there are also one or two guides to writing plugins
23:52:51	BoD[]	ok my viewport is working
23:52:57	jvm_	how does the file structure look like? i mean, if i do rb->open(path, flags), what does the path have to be to access the text file foo.bar in root?
23:53:34	linuxstb	"/foo.bar"
23:53:37	safetydan	jvm_: / is root so /foo.bar
23:53:39	BoD[]	thanks guys
23:55:06	jvm_	i saw /rocks/apps/dict.desc in the dict.c plugin. does this realy mean, that there has to be an rocks/apps/ directory, or is /rocks for example mapped to the rockbox data directory?
23:55:43	linuxstb	"rocks" lives inside the .rockbox directory - I would expect the dict.c to specify that
23:56:09	linuxstb	It does - ROCKBOX_DIR
23:56:24	jvm_	yeah, didn't look properly.
23:56:25	jvm_	okay.
23:57:20	jvm_	thanks linuxstb and safetydan, you were a big help. bye.
23:57:27		Quit jvm_ ("Leaving")
23:57:27		Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:57:34	*	linuxstb awaits the patch

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