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#rockbox log for 2008-08-21

00:01:26 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:03:52 Quit Bensawsome ("The awsome is gone :(")
00:12:19 Quit massiveH ("Leaving")
00:13:20 Join erram_ [0] (
00:14:00 Quit Zarggg (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:14:16 Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!")
00:18:23 Quit erram_ (Remote closed the connection)
00:18:54amiconnpetur: The MAS PCM codec can tell s/pdif sampling rate directly for recording (via a MAS status memory cell)
00:19:29amiconnThe built-in mp3 encoder doesn't have this feature
00:19:41peturamiconn: I don't have the right cable here to test spdif, think it is ok to commit the displaying of samplerate? You can test and add it for hwcodec (little changes in recording.c)
00:20:17amiconnDoes it just report whatever frequency the function in firmware/ returns?
00:20:31 Quit star_jasmine ()
00:20:36peturrefreshes whenever it changes
00:20:39amiconnI'd have to make it say '0 Hz' if the rate isn't known (i.e. when not recording)
00:21:06peturyes, it says weird things with no cable attached atm
00:21:32amiconnPerhaps the firmware function should return 0 when rate isn't known on swcodec as well
00:21:56amiconn...and then the recording screen could handle that special case and print "unknown" (localised)
00:22:23peturshould I commit what I have already now?
00:22:39 Join jfc^2 [0] (
00:24:37*petur stares at amiconn
00:26:36Topic"Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | Rockbox 3.0 Freeze begins!" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
00:27:40 Quit jfc^2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:28:07*petur really wonders why he's left with only the backup webserver atm :(
00:28:17 Join jfc^2 [0] (
00:28:59swimmerthanks for fixing the servers so fast :)
00:30:11*petur will just commit these spdif changes - no access to the tracker to put up a patch anyway
00:31:00stripwaxIs there a rockbox sourcefile that defines an appopriate keycombo for 'quit' that all plugins can/could use, without needing to separately define it in each plugin? For all the plugins that use the same keycombo to quit, that is, of course..
00:31:32stripwaxe.g. menu+select on ipod. is there a #define for a de-facto BUTTON_PLUGIN_QUIT or somesuch?
00:31:54rasherstripwax: There are the Plugin actions, but people don't like them
00:32:48stripwaxdo you know why not?
00:33:24LloreanBecause they actually increase inconsistency, mainly because people use them very poorly.
00:33:27rasherBecause for some plugins and targets, you end up having to define a lot of exceptions, I believe is the most important point.
00:33:58rasherAlso, I believe the choice of basing it on bubbles was a mistake.
00:38:06pixelmaplugin controls can be quite different and sometimes also the physical button layout can have an influence on the "best" keymap. Another thing is that the definitions are in a different file and it creates hidden connections/dependencies
00:38:37pixelmawith those (current) pluginlib actions I mean
00:39:12 Quit jfc^3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:40:53 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:42:15 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:43:23 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:43:42 Part Inverse
00:44:15amiconnThe sansa sd driver asm contain an idea for the arm (pp and samsung) ata driver asm...
00:45:05amiconnAnd it seems like I found the reason for the comment that states writing has to stay slow for now
00:45:14 Join Zarggg [0] (
00:45:21amiconn(in ata-sd-pp.c)
00:46:20 Quit safetydan (
00:46:20 Quit petur (
00:46:20 Quit GodEater (
00:46:20 Quit shodanX (
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00:46:20 Quit tarbo (
00:47:38NJoinfxb__ [0] (
00:48:54gevaertsWhy is it?
00:49:14NJointarbo [0] (n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo)
00:49:15NJoinmorrijr [0] (
00:49:37amiconnIt seems that if one applies a similar optimisation as for reading, the pp sd controller doesn't like it because the data port is 16, but is written to using stmia (32 bit wide), and the high bits contain data
00:49:50amiconnBut I might be wrong (just got a compare error)
00:50:17NJoinpetur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
00:50:26ZambeziI'm ready to modify my iPod Mini now. I have the CF-card, I have the tools, but now I saw 3.0 is about to arrive. Maybe I'll wait. Any ideas when it should be here? Not days of course.
00:50:41amiconnClearing the high bits would be possible with extra instructions. Need to check whether that'd still be faster than using separate strh instructions
00:51:03amiconn(which I am trying right now) The PP ata controller data port works the same way
00:54:47 Join shodanX [0] (n=shodanX@
00:55:18LloreanZambezi: Why wait? You can upgrade to 3.0 when it comes out.
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00:56:38ZambeziLlorean: Without loosing music?
00:56:51 Join rvvs89 [0] (n=rvvs89@
01:00:48 Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:00:52 Join LightKnight [0] (
01:01:06LightKnightHi :) Anyone on?
01:01:26scorche|sh126 others by my count...
01:01:35 Quit Zarggg (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:01:40scorche|shZambezi: yes...upgradinf is quite painless
01:02:00 Quit reacocard (Remote closed the connection)
01:02:22*petur taps the buildserver on the shoulder and tells it to start moving
01:02:25LloreanZambezi: If installing/upgrading lost your music we'd mention it in the manual.
01:02:27 Join Zarggg [0] (
01:02:32 Join reacocard [0] (
01:02:39Zambeziscorche|sh: Wonderful. Cause iirc a Apple firmware-upgrade restores the iPod. And same with my cellphone.
01:03:09scorche|shZambezi: rockbox != apple ;)
01:03:10*amiconn found a mistake in his 'offset 3' writing code
01:03:55ZambeziLlorean: Installing is not a problem. I'm going to restore it anyway since I'm changing harddrive to CF-card.
01:03:57LightKnightJust wondering: I own a Nortek Swing MP3 player, anyone knows if I can put Rockbox on it?
01:04:04peturBagder: around?
01:04:16 Quit Zarggg (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:04:27amiconnZambezi: Why restore? Just copy the firmware partition before the swap...
01:04:52LloreanLightKnight: No. That's why it's not listed...
01:05:10pixelmaLightKnight: Rockbox only runs on the players listed... beaten
01:05:47Zambeziamiconn: Some albums have the songs in wrong order and I just have 2-2,5 GB music on it so it's not a major issue.
01:06:10ZambeziAnd I want a fresh start with just Rockbox.
01:06:16amiconnZambezi: I meant copying the *firmware* partition (with dd)
01:06:36LightKnightOK, thanks... just a faint hope :)
01:06:36amiconnRecreating the data partition is another matter (and I'd recommend it)
01:07:02*amiconn has a CF-modded Mini
01:07:10*petur trusts his commit fixed the error and goes to sleep. Somebody with a big stick should poke the buildserver
01:07:14 Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
01:07:36 Join Bensawsome [0] (n=Bensawso@unaffiliated/bensawsome)
01:08:58Zambeziamiconn: Oh, will do, thanks for the advice. I have a iPod mini 2gen with 4 GB and I got a 32 GB CF-card this week. I'm not sure when I can replace it. I might need Windows for it, but hopefully not.
01:09:13amiconnNo, you don't
01:09:36amiconnIt can be done in linux as well as in windows.
01:11:12Zambeziamiconn: Wonderful! Cause three of my other computers broke so installing Window would cause me trouble. I think I saw a guide on the homepage how to restore the iPod i Linux.
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01:19:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:21:38ZambeziDue to the crash, some parts on the homepage is unreachable. And one is the restore-part. Anyone have the stored locally? If not, I'll wait of course. I might restore it tonight if I get a whim. :-)
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01:31:48amiconngevaerts: Very interesting: My optimised write transfer causes data errors with the udelay(2) still in place, but works properly when I remove it
01:32:43*amiconn thinks his patch will need testing on other c200's, and also e200's
01:33:08*gevaerts is pretty sure about that. Just removing the udelay fixed everything on his c200
01:33:36amiconnIncluding the data glitches in usb mode?
01:33:45amiconn(I mean the sd related ones)
01:34:24gevaertsOther people saw the errors appear by doing that however
01:34:29amiconnI didn't try it in usb mode yet, just in rockbox, using test_disk.rock "Write & verify"
01:34:45gevaerts(or at least occur more often)
01:34:50amiconnThis writes 300MB of pseudo-random data, then reads back & compares
01:35:13amiconn(against the prng sequence, so no extra ram needed for that)
01:35:40amiconnI've modified test_disk so that it uses the card, not the internal flash
01:36:16Zambeziamiconn: Do you have a link to a howto about the restore-part so I won't need iTunes? I tried searching without sucess and since you did it, it would feel good to with a method known to work.
01:36:45*amiconn has no link 'cause he didn't use written instructions
01:37:15scorche|shZambezi: wiki page with a title of something like IpodManualRestore
01:38:27DerPapsthow about :P
01:38:35Zambeziscorche|sh: That was the name! Thanks. I'll check for googlecache or hold for the restore.
01:38:58ZambeziDerPapst: Thanks to you too. :-)
01:38:59DerPapstthe wiki is up again...
01:39:12ZambeziIt's "Forbidden" here.
01:40:25gevaertsTry force-reloading or restarting your webbrowser
01:40:46amiconnWriting now breaks at 80MHz :(
01:41:24ZambeziDidn't work with Iceweasel or Epiphany.
01:41:32gevaertsThat's the nice thing about this cached-memory fix. It doesn't change anything except the previously broken case
01:42:03amiconnIiuc it does change some more - the usb resets
01:42:22ZambeziI tried with w3m too. Same error.
01:42:28gevaertsZambezi: then your dns server hasn't been updated yet.
01:42:44 Nick Kopfgeldjaeger is now known as Kopfi|offline (
01:43:26gevaertswell, yes, but at least it doesn't break anything that's compiled in by default
01:44:20Zambezigevaerts: Correct. I used traceroute to get the IP and replace the domainname with the IP and voilà! :-)
01:45:07gevaertsZambezi: traceroute uses dns to get the ip...
01:46:17Zambezigevaerts: Strange, but that worked anyway.
01:46:18 Quit jfc^2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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01:47:21gevaertsZambezi: actually, after following the IpodManualRestore instructiuons you'll need to run a partition resize tool
01:47:33ZambeziMaybe it'll work after restarting Iceweasel, but anyway. I got the howto and you also have a howto about CF-mod so I'll print both and read later before modding.
01:49:02amiconnI wouldn't do that. I'd just dd the first ~40MB of the microdrive to the cf card before doing the mod (you'll need a cardreader to do this)
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01:49:36 Part EleminoP
01:49:42amiconnThen use a partitioning tool to partition the cf card. Delete the 2nd partition (the ~4GB data partition) and recreate it with type fat32 lba
01:50:01gevaertsCan't you dd it to a file on your PC, then swap in the CF card and dd back?
01:50:26amiconnFormat that partition, unzip a rockbox build to it (provided you had rockbox installed before), then do the mod
01:50:42 Part LightKnight ("Client exiting")
01:51:19amiconnNo, you have to have the firmware partition in place before doing the mod, otherwise there will be no diskmode, and you'd have to use the ipotupdater or itunes restore method
01:51:38ZambeziI have a cardreader so that's not a problem. And my CF-card will work with my iPod according to the wiki. Lovely since I just paid 10 euro for the card. :-P
01:51:59 Quit Bensawsome ("The awsome is gone :(")
01:52:16gevaertsIt doesn't do diskmode without the firmware partition? I thought that was in rom?
01:52:52DerPapstit is
01:53:12DerPapstdiskmode even works if there is no hdd in the iPod.
01:53:38ZambeziI just realised that this mod need some seriously reading before attemping.
01:53:40gevaertsFor some exotic values of "work" I guess :)
01:53:42amiconnOkay, so that should work too. But if you have a cardreader, I think that it's better to put the firmware partition in place beforehand
01:55:47gevaertsZambezi: a lot depends on your general computer knowledge. If you're not familiar with partitions and disk images, you will indeed need to study a bit
01:55:51 Quit neddy ("Leaving.")
01:58:49Zambezigevaerts: The partioning need a reminder at first, but I'm used to work in the console so it shouldn't be a trouble.
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02:10:40 Join saratoga [0] (n=98039c53@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:11:01Zambezi18006 needs a modified bootloader, but 18325 is the latest. How much is changed between the builds? And 3.0 is about to arrive too.
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02:17:18 Part toffe82
02:21:56n1sZambezi: r18006 needs a bootloader that is modified in relation to what? And what do you mean "How much is changed" ? also we hope to release 3.0 around the last of August
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02:25:11Zambezin1s: Above Incompatibility Chart
02:26:02Zambezin1s: iPod Mini 2gen with 32 GB Flashcard by Humberto-something. I have the same model, the same card. That's why I wonder.
02:26:12 Join Makuseru [0] (
02:28:27n1sZambezi: afaik that is just a bootloader built from more recent svn than the released one, so it is not really "modified" but it has the bits added for better CF support and should work fine with current builds.
02:28:28LloreanZambezi: As I said in the announcement email, 3.0 isn't anything new. It's just a packaging up of what we've got.
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02:31:43Zambezin1s: Good. I think I saw a build on a page named boot so it shouldn't be a problem, but I'm still a little nervous, but I made harder things before or at least once. :-)
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02:32:39 Quit n1s ()
02:33:53ZambeziLlorean: I just saw the topicchange. Nothing else. I'll decide later which build I grab. I just don't want to risk forgetting a step here, but I'm done for tonight and then I continue after some sleep.
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02:39:31ZambeziI'm beat now. Time to sleep and with a new day, it's time to read for the final mod. :-)
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02:43:30saratogaif i'm not playing music in a plugin, am I getting 24 or 30 mHz on PP?
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02:48:40Lloreansaratoga: IIUC you're getting 30 unless everything's idle, right?
02:48:59LloreanSince 30 is still normal, and 24 is only the idle speed
02:49:40saratogai better set it explicitly to be sure
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03:17:23 Part pixelma
03:19:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:38:30saratogahow long is a tick when passed to sleep()?
03:40:14 Join Thundercloud [0] (
03:40:28JdGordona tick is 1/100s
03:41:18saratogaok that explains a lot
03:42:05JdGordonactually there are HZ ticks/sec
03:44:46saratogawow ejecting but not unmounting my sansa was enough to corrupt my rocks folder in Windows
03:45:35saratogaalso, I can confirm the sansa OF really does charge to 4.25 volts
03:45:41saratogaits trying to charge my DMM as we speak
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03:52:29saratogaJdGordon: does the COP wake up twice a second ?
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03:52:39saratogawhen it has no threads scheduled
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04:00:59JdGordonsaratoga: i dunno
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04:27:10 Join Davide-NYC [0] (
04:28:32Davide-NYCcurrently, bootloader 7pre4 does not support USB disk mode if the user has performed a CFMod. Is this considered a 3.0 bug?
04:29:28Davide-NYCThis bug is at least for H1x0 targets, not sure of other CF Moddable target bootloaders exhibit this bug.
04:30:19 Join miepchen^schlaf_ [0] (
04:33:45JdGordoneach target has its own bootloader so its probably only hxx related
04:33:52JdGordonbut yes, sounds like a bug worth fixing for 3.0
04:34:01JdGordonis we are doing a bootloader realease
04:34:26Davide-NYCthe counter agrument is that this only affects users that have performed a CFMod
04:34:35 Quit nuonguy (No route to host)
04:34:56Davide-NYCBut I would love to see this fixed. Petur mentioned he would look into it but I would like to put it on the tracker for "posterity"
04:35:11 Join Lambduh [0] (
04:35:15*Davide-NYC meaning it doesn't get forgotten. :-)
04:35:24JdGordonyeah, add it...
04:35:36JdGordonthe cf mod is definalty one of the more popular ones...
04:36:47Davide-NYCk am doing
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04:37:13saratogaCOP power consumption testing results:
04:37:22saratoga(on PP5024)
04:37:30saratogaresults are surprising
04:39:57 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
04:41:19saratoganow with both CPUs running:
04:44:42saratoganow with 2 CPUs both unboosted:
04:45:38Llorean Davide-NYC: I don't see as "Making sure CF mod works" as a major 3.0 point.
04:45:53Davide-NYCThat's why I'm bringing it up.
04:45:58Llorean3.0 should be centered around core Rockbox functionality.
04:46:02Llorean"Hardware mods" certainly aren't.
04:46:07Davide-NYCIt worthy of a tracker entry though.
04:46:31saratogaII should note that those units are "mW/16" for reasons I don't want to discuss
04:46:34Llorean7pre4 isn't an official Rockbox bootloader, so bug reports shouldn't really be filed against it. It's also quite old code by this point.
04:47:06Davide-NYCOK. I'd like to file this somewhere. Please tell me where would be appropriate.
04:47:23LloreanWhat do you want to file? That outdated code doesn't work with the CF Mod?
04:48:20LloreanIf current SVN Rockbox USB mode works with the CF Mod, odds are pretty good a bootloader actually built against the current codebase will have working USB bootloader mode.
04:48:22Davide-NYCA footnote on the bootloader page
04:48:32Davide-NYCmaybe just a forum post
04:48:36saratogasome conclusions: doubling CPU clock frequency increases CPU power consumption by about 53mW, while doubling the number of cores working increases power consumption by about 10mW
04:48:45LloreanDavide-NYC: As you well know, the forums are not for static data.
04:48:58saratogathus running code on the second CPU is roughly 5x as efficient as doubling clock, all other things being equal
04:49:05LloreanIf you'd like you could always add it to the wiki page hosting the unofficial bootloaders, I suppose.
04:49:28saratogait would seem sleeping either core has only a very small impact on power consumption
04:49:48Lloreansaratoga: So basically, dual core should offer us some pretty significant benefits if it allows us to avoid boosting?
04:49:58LloreanFor codecs that boost, that is.
04:50:42saratogayeah looks that way
04:51:03Davide-NYCLlorean: I'll add it to the CFMod page
04:51:04saratogai ran the test a couple times, so i'm reasonably sure
04:53:53LloreanDual Core would be neat to have for 3.1. But if dual core AND USB both happen, what will we have for 3.2?
04:55:32saratogai need to look into codec on cop
04:56:09saratogaa proof of concept patch that used uncached memory to pass data in and out might be straightforward, but i don't really understand the playback system well enough to say for sure
05:00:44saratogai just had a really twisted idea: MDCT uses roughly half of the CPU time in WMA, Ogg and AAC, and the new IMDCT library I put on the tracker is communicated with purely through IRAM
05:01:41Soapsaratoga, you seem hell bent on making me reencode to something other than MP3.
05:02:19saratogathough on second thought, it'd be hard to store the state of two blocks at once so maybe its not worth trying
05:02:34saratogaheh I want to optimize MP3, i just don't know how
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05:17:33Davide-NYCIf I wanted to build the H120 bootloader from SVN do I need to patch the iriver stuff etc?
05:18:08saratogalooks like the Sandisk OF isn't so bad:
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05:18:27saratoganot sure how I measured us beating it, and how we have battery benches that show us beating it
05:18:40saratogamaybe some earlier versions of the OF were a lot less efficient
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05:20:52saratogathough i wonder if not having the retail bootloader installed matters
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05:22:17Davide-NYCguys, to make bootloader I configure, then I make, then what?
05:22:27LloreanDavide-NYC: It's not really safe to build the bootloader from SVN. If anything goes wrong with it, you might not be able to recover your player.
05:22:56Davide-NYCI would like to know what the current state of the BL is.
05:23:08LloreanYou're willing to risk sacrificing your player for curiosity?
05:23:26Davide-NYCwell, no.
05:23:49Davide-NYCso how do devs test?
05:24:09LloreanYou can use special hardware to recover a damaged H100 or H300
05:24:36LloreanThat's why the bootloaders get out of date from time to time.
05:24:45LloreanOnly a few people can safely test the new code to make sure it's safe for others to use.
05:25:50Davide-NYCgoogle is not my friend with TJAT
05:26:03LloreanTjat is a typo on "That"
05:26:03saratogaits actually JTAG
05:26:34Lloreansaratoga: Weren't the H100/H300 BDM?
05:26:46saratogaoh maybe i just assumed you meant JTAG
05:27:06LloreanNah, I mistyped "That" and bumped the enter key when trying to backspace.
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06:07:55wpyhis anyone familiar with wps'es here?
06:08:15wpyhI'm seeing some ugliness with the wpses that are included by default
06:09:25wpyhspecifically, a long line in the wps (for example, a song name) is scrolled. the problem is, the song name fits exactly to screen borders
06:09:44wpyhit would be better to offset the text slightly from screen borders
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06:27:15num1_is it possible to render a long song-title by splitting it into multiple lines?
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06:53:29Davide-NYCI'm getting a build error when attmepting to compile test_codec for the gigabeat S under cygwin
06:54:20Davide-NYCAmong other stuff I get: "test_codec.c:624: error: 'CPUFREQ_MAX' undeclared (first use in this function)"
06:54:56Davide-NYCAny clues as to what I can do to circumvent this roadblock>
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07:46:15jswetzenHi, I have a question to those who are familiar with the wps drawing code: how come viewports can't be transparent, or is it a decision
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07:47:32jswetzenI mean, is it possible, but not preferable, or is it difficult?
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08:11:33amiconnBagder/ LinusN: Do you have an idea why the build system didn't pick up the last commit?
08:11:51LinusNmaybe it's not even running :-)
08:12:34amiconnIt picked up several commits yesterday, including petur's other commit ~25 min before the last
08:12:58B4gderthe fact that it sometimes misses commits is known
08:13:22B4gderI would guess it's some kind of race in the script or something external to it that confuses it
08:14:13JdGordon_jswetzen: transparent how?
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08:15:54jswetzenJdGoron: Transparant as in not erasing underlying viewports
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08:23:51JdGordonamiconn: did you ever do anything about allowing viewports to not draw the background image?
08:24:13amiconnI have some wip in my local lcd-16bit.c
08:24:17JdGordonjswetzen: if there is no background image, setting the viewports background colour to the transparent colour should do it
08:24:38amiconnIt doesn't work properly yet
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08:29:47jswetzenall right, thank you, I'm looking forward to when it's working properly with a background image
08:30:45*petur would like somebody to kick the buildserver
08:32:06*LinusN gives a roundkick
08:33:18*petur bows
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09:21:26MartinRgevaerts: Forget about those USB resets I reported yesterday. They mysteriously vanished today.
09:21:41MartinRgevaerts: Sorry for the confusion. Blame Windows.
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09:22:09MartinRgevaerts: I'll post some test results to the tracker later on. Looks promising so far...
09:22:15*petur blames Perl instead
09:22:39*scorche|sh Agrees With The Perl Blaming
09:23:14peturOh Are We Having A Title Case Day Today?
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09:23:29scorche|shIt Is Quite Possible
09:24:43*linuxstb goes back to bed
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09:24:59peturlinuxstb: ill?
09:25:20linuxstbill from all this title case
09:25:44*petur actually hates it too
09:26:03*GodEater also waves a flag for sentence case
09:26:45*B4gder votes CamelCaseDayWithEverythingWithoutSpaces
09:27:08*linuxstb thinks B4gder isn't taking it seriously ;)
09:27:58linuxstbAnd afaik, we don't have any camels as users...
09:28:17GodEateryou've not been to then ?
09:28:24B4gdermy parents have a llama, is that close enough?
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09:28:44linuxstbB4gder: Does he/she use Rockbox?
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09:29:33B4gderwell, he is occasionally near Rockbox-running devices although he has trouble using them with his.. eh I don't know the word for llama feet ;-)
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09:33:01GodEaterhooves I think
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09:41:06MartinRamiconn: In case you were referring to my patch at
09:41:31MartinRamiconn: I already tried using strh. It didn't change anything other than slowing down the code.
09:41:57MartinRamiconn: Thus, the udelay has to be reduced (or removed) to speed it up again to prevent the bug. I think that's what you've seen.
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10:33:17anonymous8726663right, who is responsible for the FAQ?
10:33:55B4gderwe all are!
10:34:03B4gderthat includes you
10:34:18anonymous8726663Well, it's hilarious
10:34:20anonymous8726663well done
10:34:39anonymous8726663haven't tried the software yet, but if the FAQ is anything to go by
10:35:30B4gderhaha, I would say that the Rockbox software is better than the faq
10:36:00anonymous8726663We can only hope
10:36:23anonymous8726663which of the supported players are currently still for sale?
10:36:42B4gdernone! :-(
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10:37:48scorche|shanonymous8726663: there are plenty of refurbished and even some new devices on ebay
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10:38:14B4gderif we're lucky one or more of the new ports are good enough before those players reach end of life as well
10:39:20amiconnEnd of life? Nah...
10:39:29B4gderwell, end of production
10:39:37anonymous8726663did I read there was support for a HDD player with colour screen?
10:39:45scorche|shlots of them
10:40:06anonymous8726663which one is recommended?
10:40:22GodEaterpointless question - depends on your requirements
10:40:51anonymous8726663thanks B4gder
10:43:11anonymous8726663I might just give it a go on my shitty Ipod then
10:43:20anonymous8726663thanks guys
10:43:57*GodEater wonders what constitutes a "shitty" ipod
10:44:06GodEateron second thoughts, perhaps I don't want to know
10:44:16peturthe fact that it is an ipod?
10:44:41anonymous8726663the battery doesn't last too long
10:44:46anonymous8726663it's old
10:44:47GodEaterreplace it?
10:44:51peturreplace the battery
10:45:25peturcosts < 10 dollar/euro
10:47:12anonymous87266638.99 for the battery
10:47:17anonymous87266634.99 postage
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10:47:27anonymous8726663why didn't i come here like last year?
10:47:46krzhello all
10:47:55peturget a CameronSino battery from a HK seller
10:52:11peturah well... make it < 15 dollar then
10:52:31anonymous8726663Thanks guys
10:52:36anonymous8726663very helpful
10:53:19anonymous8726663and keep up the great FAQing
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10:59:08GodEateranonymous8726663: while you're at it (if you're willing to spend a few more $$$) you can upgrade the harddrive too.
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11:04:02anonymous8726663I have the 15gig 3rd gen and more space would be nice
11:04:32anonymous8726663i'd like to be able to carry the whole ASOT collection along
11:04:55anonymous8726663what kind of $ are we looking at?
11:15:41linuxstbanonymous8726663: The 3rd gen ipod is probably one of the worse Rockbox targets... If it was me, I would just buy something else (e.g. a Gigabeat F40)
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11:22:45anonymous8726663is it better than iTunes?
11:22:57Philpaxhi everyone
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11:30:48GodEateranonymous8726663: is what better than iTunes ?
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11:35:59Unhelpfulrockbox, i suppose. rockbox only runs on the device, though, it doesn't replace the desktop itunes software. (unfortunately)
11:36:25anonymous8726663so i still need itunes?
11:36:33GodEaterto do what ?
11:36:45anonymous8726663put music on the device?
11:36:58anonymous8726663you had me worried
11:37:03GodEaterRockbox wouldn't be very useful on non-apple targets if it required iTunes
11:37:22GodEateryou *can* still use it, but you don't *have* to
11:37:40anonymous8726663I am still reading the intro
11:38:00anonymous8726663but i was hoping it was drag and drop
11:38:24GodEaterit is
11:39:04anonymous8726663then I am in the right place
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11:47:27gevaertsMartinR: Thanks for testing (and for finding that this cache was the problem). Unless amiconn's way of fixing this works out better, I'll commit this soon
11:48:14Soapgevaerts, if you PM me a testing "plan" I can also test the last patch.
11:48:37SoapI just am not 100% sure what types of copies and moves and rump shakes you need to see.
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11:49:12gevaertsSoap: basically just copy loads of data over usb to the sansa, and see if it gets there correctly
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11:49:58Soapnothing to do with the (micro)SD card? That is what confused me - I kept seeing lots of talk about the SD card.
11:50:10Soaptake that back - lots of talk about sd
11:50:26gevaertsthe sansa uses sd for its internal flash as well
11:50:51gevaertsBut you can test this both with internal and sd
11:51:33MartinRgevaerts: I'm about to post my test results to the tracker. Looks very good.
11:51:55Soapgevaerts, ahh, that explains it. I have no microSD card to test with.
11:53:00gevaertsSoap: I'm pretty sure the patch fixes the corruption for real though. The behaviour is now really the same as non-usb operation, and nobody ever reported problems with that
11:53:35Soapwell then do you need resets tested or is the one report good enough?
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11:54:42gevaertsIf you can compare resets with and without the patch, that would be useful as well
11:55:29MartinRSoap: A tool for testing USB sticks does a good job. I often used this one:
11:56:10MartinRSoap: If you on Windows.
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11:57:10Soapnot :(
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12:02:42*MartinR posted nice test results to FS #8663.
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12:46:43Nico_Pgevaerts: does r18327 mean usb on the sansas should be corruption free now?
12:50:36gevaertsNico_P: yes
12:51:37Nico_Pawesome :)
12:51:51Nico_Pso there's only the hub issues left?
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12:54:35Nico_Pwhat about using rockbox usb as default for 3.0, with a warning that hubs could cause issues?
12:56:08scorche|shi would be for that
12:56:23linuxstbThe whole point of 3.0 is to be stable...
12:57:20Nico_PI'm not convinced the hub issue counts as instability
12:57:24linuxstbEnabling the day after 3.0 seems sensible to me - so users have a clear choice between something usable and something experimental.
12:58:02linuxstbNico_P: How well tested has it been on all PP targets?
12:58:07gevaertsNico_P: the hub issue makes it unusable for some people
12:58:08scorche|shi dont think the hub issue would make it "unusable"
12:58:31gevaerts"unusable" as in "it doesn't work at all"
12:59:11Nico_Pthen maybe a setting could be added (don't hit me ;))
13:00:28Nico_Psince it works for most people, it would be a pity to leave it out for much longer IMHO
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13:00:34gevaertsAnyway I think it needs to be enabled for at least a few weeks before it gets in a stable release
13:02:03linuxstbNico_P: After 3.0 isn't much longer...
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13:03:58Nico_Plinuxstb: that depends on the point of view. for people who wait for 3.1, it might be
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13:04:55B4gderalso, without usbcharging enabled for the sansa, the usb mode is still a bit limited
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13:05:43Philpaxis there a way to make the database only scan in one folder?
13:06:08Philpaxi have a music folder and i also have ipodlinux on the same partition. some of the files of ipodlinux are being detected, so i don't have purely my songs.
13:07:59scorche|shPhilpax: i suggest you have a look at the does go into this
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13:10:06Philpaxit does?
13:10:12Philpaxi looked at the manual several times
13:10:15Philpaxcouldn't find anything
13:10:33scorche|shunder the database section...
13:10:39Philpaxi'll check again
13:11:33Philpaxoh yeah
13:11:36Philpaxforgot about database.ignore
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13:41:45VixusSo how did GSoC go (or how's it going)?
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13:52:01robin0800B4gder, FS #8363 - Charger configuration for Sansa e200/c200 this patch enables charging on c200 now
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13:52:20B4gderI know but that isn't applied
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13:55:41robin0800B4gder,prehaps its in the testig phase it only needs accurate charging time display, but this is broken on other targets IMHO
13:57:46B4gderwe were discussing what should go in 3.0 and I don't think this is ready for that
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14:16:34robin0800B4gder,I agree, personaly though i would prefferred the Sansa not to be frozen until charging and file transfer is fixed. I would have hoped 3.0 would mean OF not needed
14:17:25Lloreanrobin0800: 3.0 had a timeline.
14:17:28GodEaterthis would be a new "feature" though of Rockbox, and therefore is banned by the freeze
14:17:35LloreanDid you want us to cancel 3.0, or just leave the Sansa out of it?
14:19:38robin0800Llorean, leave any target out if it still needs the OF?
14:19:54B4gderI think the date and 3.0 is more important than specific features in it
14:20:16Lloreanrobin0800: So, basically, limit it to Gigabeat, Archos, and coldfire-based targets.
14:20:43Lloreanrobin0800: And why exactly is it such a great evil to document "The player will automatically reboot into disk mode for USB access"?
14:20:48robin0800Llorean, Yes
14:21:16Llorean3.0 is the introduction of reliable software codec playback, it is not the abolishment of the original firmware.
14:21:22linuxstbrobin0800: I think excluding targets from 3.0 will cause more problems than including them with limited features.
14:22:03linuxstbAnd excluding targets from release won't make the features you want happen any sooner.
14:22:30*Llorean thinks recording should be a focus of 3.1 and abolishment of OF perhaps a goal for 3.2
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14:23:23linuxstbDo we have a date for 3.0?
14:23:31Nico_Pthe usb stack and sansa usb charging seem to be ready enough for 3.1
14:23:32peturLlorean: recording works already for a long time
14:23:52Lloreanpetur: I didn't mean fix it. Just focus on it. Try to get it in a "very good" state for users. REP stuff, etc.
14:23:52peturor do you mean 'recording on all targets'?
14:24:44robin0800Llorean,Its easier in support, you don't have to tell anyone that disk mode etc is Apples,
14:24:53LloreanNico_P: Yes. I suspect though that through testing there will probably still be a lot of room to improve, and other targets still need a good deal of work to abolish the OF.
14:25:09linuxstbrobin0800: Yes we do, it's just that those people are using a "current build" instead of "3.0"
14:25:15Lloreanrobin0800: You're assuming they won't download the daily build if they don't download 3.0?
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14:26:15robin0800Llorean,Who is 3.0 aimed at then, who needs it?
14:26:16Lloreanlinuxstb: We kinda do. The freeze is supposed to be two weeks. When august ends, we unfreeze and pick a build. Then probably a little more time will pass before the release because we need to package it up for installation, get the known issues fully in order, etc.
14:26:57Lloreanrobin0800: 3.0 is aimed at "everyone who currently uses Rockbox" as a build they can safely use when the bleeding edge builds are unstable or unreliable.
14:27:12*petur realizes he will be on holiday when the release is done
14:27:25LloreanIt's a state of the code with (hopefully) a local minimum of known issues tagged for public use.
14:27:57linuxstbHas the idea of release-candidates been discussed? i.e. branch 3.0 in SVN (call it 3.0-RC1), and then have the ability to make a few minor changes before actually tagging it as 3.0?
14:28:19Lloreanlinuxstb: No, it hasn't. I personally wouldn't be against it at all.
14:28:44LloreanMaybe 1 week of RC status after the freeze ends even?
14:28:48B4gderI think we should do it that way, we branch on the unfreeze day
14:28:59swimmerapropos tagging - could you tag a rbutil_current as well while you're at it? ;-)
14:29:51B4gderswimmer: that sounds like a tag that would be moved at each release?
14:30:03LloreanB4gder: That was the proposition, for the gentoo ebuild
14:30:17linuxstbWhy couldn't the ebuild just use a source tarball?
14:30:28LloreanInstead of building bleeding edge source, move the rbutil_release tag each time a new numbered version came out, so the ebuild is always "up to date" but isn't relying on in-development code.
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14:39:31swimmerlinuxstb: ask GodEater what has idea originally was when he designed the ebuild ;-)
14:40:10linuxstbswimmer: At the time, I don't think there were any stable releases of rbutil, so svn was the best way to build it.
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14:41:39swimmerI can change it as well if you want to ...
14:41:56swimmerthe advantage is that only parts of the source tarball is used ...
14:42:12linuxstbAdvantage of what?
14:42:16GodEaterlinuxstb: that's exactly the reason I put the ebuild together the way I did
14:42:44GodEaterwe'd only just ported it to QT
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15:03:51swimmerso you guys prefer the ebuild to use the source tarball?
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15:39:20MerczHas the USB stack advanced from the "limited capability" yet?
15:40:03gevaertsNot in the official builds. What player do you have?
15:40:54Merczsansa e
15:41:44GodEaterswimmer: I'm not fussed one way or the other - though the "source tarball" approach requires that we make one and maintain it independently of svn. More work in my opinion - but I'm not the person who has to do that work - so maybe others won't care ;)
15:43:51gevaertsMercz: have a look at
15:44:24gevaertsMercz: you can probably ignore the data corruption bug that is mentionned there. It should be fixed now (since earlier today)
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15:47:52Merczseems to be getting there
15:47:57Merczi might give it a go
15:48:26GodEaterI find it very usable personally
15:48:55robin0800gevaerts,just tried usb stack still will not copy the .rockbox folder to the sansa c200 says can't find file specified and falls over
15:50:58Merczfull usb will be the "killer app" as such i think when its ready
15:51:00swimmerGodEater: I'd do the work but I want to set it up in a way that's its useful and reasonable and reflects the wishes of upstream ...
15:51:44GodEaterswimmer: I'd wait till someone decides what the best approach is then. I personally favour the moving tag in svn - but others seem to think that's a bad idea for some reason.
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15:56:53swimmerGodEater: ok - is there some decision making proces going on already or should I trigger that?
15:57:05gevaertsrobin0800: Are you copying to the correct disk (i.e. not the sd) ? What OS are you using? Are you using a hub?
15:57:11Lloreanrobin0800: *Rockbox* says "can't file file specified"?!
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16:11:17decayedcellis it possible for ipodpatcher to restore images on drives it doesn't see as ipod drives i.e. ones that may be partitioned but have an empty fiirmware partition?
16:23:44Lloreandecayedcell: It could be hacked to do so. The safety checks are there to protect our users, there really shouldn't be a reason to do it the way you suggest for anyone normally installing Rockbox.
16:26:34gevaertsdecayedcell: I'm not sure, but if you just want to get it usable without having to use itunes, have a look at
16:26:51robin0800gevaerts,yes correct disk no hub same port I use for everything on windows xp
16:27:52gevaertsrobin0800: can you run chkdsk on it ? (probably best while using the OF)
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16:29:07robin0800Llorean, no its a windows xp error, but only ever seen with you usb stack
16:31:40Lloreanrobin0800: In that case, please try to avoid pronouns like "it" when you haven't given a noun it can refer to yet.
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16:32:05robin0800gevaerts,chkdisk found no errors
16:32:15gevaertsrobin0800: also, what exactly does "it falls over" mean?
16:34:04robin0800gevaerts,there is an ok button on the message which when clicked aborts the copy process
16:35:22gevaertsrobin0800: can you have a look at the System log in the Event Viewer to see if there are any disk errors?
16:36:59decayedcellgevaerts i thought ipodpatcher checked that the firmware partition was installed
16:38:15gevaertsdecayedcell: It probably does. What exactly are you trying to do?
16:38:24decayedcellsay i have a blank hard drive
16:38:37decayedcelli format it to the correct sectors firmware/main
16:39:07decayedcelli would like to take the firmware partition off a hard drive which has the firmware installed on the firmware partition, then use e.g. ipodpatcher to restore that image onto the blank hard drive
16:39:21decayedcellso then i would have two identical drives without imaging the whole thing
16:39:41gevaertsipodpatcher is not the right tool for that. Use dd or something similar to just copy the firmare partition
16:40:02decayedcellwhat would the parameters for dd be I get stuck :(
16:40:27gevaertsAre you running linux?
16:40:29*Llorean thinks this may not be very Rockbox related at this point.
16:41:03*gevaerts agrees and invites decayedcell to #rockbox-community
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16:42:48robin0800gevaerts, it says delayed write failed which is strange as the sansa is set up for quick removal and not delayed write
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16:44:32robin0800gevaerts,being windows perhaps it means it needs delay write?
16:45:28gevaerts"delay write" doesn't mean much. as far as the device is concerned writing is writing
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16:46:13gevaertsDoes your pc have more usb ports? Could you try different ones?
16:46:44robin0800gevaerts,do you think the vmimage running might affect it?
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16:50:13robin0800gevaerts,nothing else has ever produced that error message,usb sticks ,ipods, cammera & Sansac200 OF: sure its not the port.
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16:51:12Lloreanrobin0800: I don't understand what you think that proves...
16:51:14gevaertsrobin0800: behaving differently on different ports is one of the remaining issues
16:52:15gevaertsDifferent ports have different timing characteristics (depending on cable length,...), and we have some timing issues
16:53:08robin0800Llorean,if the usb port is wrong! I would expect copy failures with other hardware, I don't
16:53:29gevaertsrobin0800: we've seen this issue, otherwise we wouldn't be asking...
16:55:33robin0800gevaerts,will try a back usb port tomorrow ,got to go now.
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17:09:13moosgrr I forgot about unicode caracters in svn commit message :(
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17:24:43GodEaterswimmer: sorry I seem to keep wandering off whenever you address anything to me!
17:25:17GodEaterswimmer: I would try badgering people for a decision yourself if I were you - I've not seen anyone else really getting involved in the discussion except for you, me, Llorean and linuxstb
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17:27:25Lloreanswimmer: Or better yet, write up the overall idea to the -dev mailing list, and ask which of the two proposed alternatives seem best, so that it's in a location where you can get non-realtime responses more readily
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17:27:50GodEaterthat's an excellent idea
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17:30:00linuxstbGodEater: I would expect any rbutil release to have a corresponding source tarball anyway. So the only work is maintaining a symlink. It seems common for projects to have a "package-current.tgz" or similar. But I don't really care either way...
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17:30:28GodEaterdo we have that currently for rbutil releases?
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17:31:29linuxstbDoesn't look like it...
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17:35:02GodEaterso we're bucking the trend once more
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17:41:26PaulJamhas there been any progress on the H300 bootloader issues in the last few weeks?
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17:42:37LloreanI'm sure it'll be committed once it's fixed...
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17:49:30peturPaulJam: nope
17:53:51PaulJamdo you know the revision that broke it?
17:54:05peturLinusN knows
17:55:10PaulJamok, thanks
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18:06:19swimmerok GodEater & Llorean - I will subscribe to rockbox-dev to be able to address that ;-)
18:06:30swimmerthanks for your responses
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18:06:44swimmerhopefully I can resume in a reasonable way ;-)
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18:34:15UncleRemusWhat is the best way of reading the rockbox-manual on the machine itself? Is it possible?
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18:35:12rasherNot really, though I suppose you could do something like pdf2text if that exists
18:35:14linuxstbYou could create a text version of it (from the html)
18:35:56*linuxstb spots that there is no "all-on-one-page" version of the manual in html though....
18:36:28*bluebrother discovers his new m240 is an AMS version :/
18:36:28rasherI wonder how pdftotext output looks
18:36:34UncleRemusOK, thanks. I got stuck with the text editor and wanted some help when I had no access to the net
18:36:37linuxstbBut I guess you could save each chapter - it could be easier to browse that way
18:37:06n1si think there's a way to build a text only manual from soure
18:37:42linuxstbCould be a nice thing to produce for 3.0...
18:38:02rasherOkay, pdftotext isn't great.
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18:38:48bluebrothern1s: there's a make target manual-txt iirc
18:39:00bluebrotherit builds the html and converts using lynx though.
18:39:09n1sbluebrother: yes, just checked the Makefile :)
18:39:14rasherCan't latex output directly to text?
18:39:38bluebrothernot that I know −− it's not its purpose. txt isn't high quality typesetting ;-)
18:39:54rasherI suppose
18:40:19linuxstbMaybe other tools exist to do that with latex source?
18:40:51*linuxstb finds but struggles...
18:40:59n1shmm, i don't have lynx so that didn't work too well :)
18:42:54bluebrotherurgh, even japanese comments in the script :/
18:43:50rasherThat script's pretty full of magic
18:43:56bluebrotherbtw, do we have a date for releasing? /me wanted to rewrite the installation section to be more rbutil-centric but is still lacking the time
18:44:34rasherHow about September 8th?
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18:45:11rasherGives people the a weekend leading up to the release
18:45:20Nico_Plinuxstb: are you still interested in the flash-buffering patch? It's more or less ready
18:45:26Lloreanrasher: Sounds good to me.
18:45:28bertrikthe announcement mentions a couple (as in two) weeks after the freeze
18:45:40Lloreanbertrik: The two weeks is for finishing the freeze and picking a release candidate.
18:46:19LloreanWe also don't have to release the binaries, manual, and updated util all at once if things prevent that.
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18:46:49LloreanPersonally, I think the most important thing is getting through the freeze with as many bugs fixed as possible, and picking a candidate. Once we've got that, we've overcome the hurdles that hit us last time at least.
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18:47:10rasherWouldn't be a problem if the manual continued to target 3.0 for a while after release
18:47:58sXeLeTHaLhey guys i just installed rockbox with the automatic installer (did full install) but how do i install themes with this program, when the window comes up it says "getting themes information... the following errors occured: No Themes Found."
18:48:28sXeLeTHaLoh i installed it on a 30gig ipod vidoe
18:48:36LloreansXeLeTHaL: It installs themes from an unofficial theme website which is currently outdated anyway. Basically, you can't use it for installing themes right now
18:48:41LloreanYou'll have to go to the wiki and get themes there
18:48:58sXeLeTHaLok i downloaded some from there how would i install those?
18:49:40sXeLeTHaLi downloaded (for example) black glass_aa_v123, extracted now where do i put those files?
18:49:50LloreanIn the same folders on the player.
18:50:02LloreanA properly packaged theme should preserve all the necessary folders
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18:50:18Nico_Plinuxstb: in case you're still interested:
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19:01:18fmlAny web admins here? In the left bar of the rockbox site, the Search title is at a wrong place IMHO. It is placed above FS search, not site search box.
19:01:46gevaertsfml: both are searches...
19:02:03domonokyfml, but the FS search is also a search ? so its like a heading..
19:02:20gevaertsYou could argue that site search needs to come first, but I think it's pretty clear that the Search title applies to both
19:03:03amiconnIt's a heading like Downlaods, Documentation, Support and Tracker
19:04:00amiconnIt's abit irritating though that the heading is smaller than the search boxes, and that the heading is glued to the upper box
19:04:53fmlgevaerts, domonoky: but it doesn't
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19:05:09fmlerr... But the two boxes seem to stand apart
19:05:46fmlSo I personnaly don't get the impression that the title belongs to both input fields.
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19:32:18BigBambigevaerts: r.e. your latest commit - is there any useful testing I can do?
19:33:17gevaertsBigBambi: a bit of testing to see if the corruption is really gone never hurts of course
19:33:31BigBambiJust lots of copying and comparing?
19:34:26gevaertsYes. Probably best an umount/mount between copying and comparing to make sure the vfs cache is flushed
19:34:26BigBambiI meant the second part incidentally
19:34:48BigBambiignore the line before last :)
19:35:36*gevaerts decides that ignoring it will be easier than understanding it :)
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19:41:01fmlAny opinions/comments on FS #9305? The main question is: is the layering broken by the approach? I.e. can one say that firmware code calls app code? I think no since firmware code still does not use app API, and that is what matters.
19:47:05bertrikThe approach looks OK to me, I just think it's not really useful enough to have such a feature
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20:05:54fmlbertrik: actually, I'm also not that much after the feature. It was more of an experiment. So I wouldn't insist on it being included into SVN.
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20:30:45fmlbluebrother, domonoky: ping
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20:34:44fmlbluebrother, domonoky: in the RbUtil's main window I can see the model selected. But when I click to Install, in the dialog that pops up ('Install Rockbox') the model is not shown anymore. And in the progress window also not. Thus I don't see what's being done. I think it would be good to display the model in both windows.
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21:04:00domonokywhy do you need the Model in this window again ?
21:05:16 Join nls4ever [0] (i=nls4ever@
21:05:25nls4everhello all....
21:06:20 Quit m0f0x (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:07:08domonokyfml: feel free to improve rbutil. it surely could need someone to make it nice and shiny... :-)
21:08:47 Quit Horscht ("We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents")
21:12:58 Quit m0f0x_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:13:13 Join RalpH_himself [0] (
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21:15:19 Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht)
21:16:00RalpH_himselfhas anybody of you out there ever heard of the project? I was just thinking: how about a port for it?
21:17:07Bagderit's running linux already, if it has sdl it can already run the sim
21:17:10Lloreangevaerts: Seen the latest comment to FS #8663?
21:17:40LloreanBagder: And probably soon Rockbox-as-an-app, right?
21:17:52*gevaerts looks
21:17:53RalpH_himselfthat would be great for sure!
21:18:17gevaertsNot good...
21:18:17RalpH_himselfbut I just thought a native port could save a lot energy... probably...
21:18:40Bagdertrue, but also SO much more work
21:18:58gevaertsBut at least this will shut up the gang that wants this enabled for 3.0 I guess
21:19:38RalpH_himselfbut just to hear that there is an option to run rockbox as an app is good, since I haven't heard of any other music-player for this device
21:19:43Lloreangevaerts: A definite plus of that. :)
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21:20:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:20:06BagderRalpH_himself: we also quite possibly have some of the most optimized free software codecs for ARM
21:20:37Bagderalthough I'm not familiar with the Cortex line
21:20:52RalpH_himselfnor am I ;)
21:23:32 Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@
21:24:03peturbertrik: the user that opened 9286 claims it still crashes. I remember you tried this and it didn't. He added some details, don't know if you have time to check. (*or anybody else with a sansa e200*)
21:25:11*gevaerts now officially no longer has any clue about FS #8663
21:25:43 Join jgarvey [0] (
21:26:55BagderRalpH_himself: you have one of these babies?
21:27:09RalpH_himselfnot yet, but it sounds good...
21:27:20 Quit viocizgd (K-lined)
21:27:21 Quit lacrstech (K-lined)
21:27:46RalpH_himselfI just ordered an iPod touch, I think i'll fire that if the pandora turns out as good as it sounds ^^
21:29:12 Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere)
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21:31:36SoapDo the X5 and H300 actually turn off the LCD or just the backlight?
21:33:10pixelmaI'm quite sure the X5 does, don't know about the H300
21:33:58pixelmabut you can't see much of a difference there anyways (as you could on the Ipod Video or Nano)
21:34:27LambdaCalculus37pixelma: IIRC the H300 does turn off the LCD as well, but I have to look at one again.
21:35:21amiconnThey turn off the lcd
21:36:21bertrikpetur, I'll try again
21:36:30mcuelenaerethe WPS editor student definitely needs better communication with the community; he mailed me some days ago to test his current work in Linux..
21:36:50LambdaCalculus37amiconn: Thanks. :)
21:37:12amiconnThere is no point in leaving a normally-black colour lcd running without backlight
21:37:44amiconnSituations where you can read those w/o backlight are so rare that it's better to save the energy for driving it
21:38:14pixelmameh, one of the very few occasions I regret not being subscribed to the users ml :|
21:41:06SoapIs the iPod LCD left on because it is readable, or is the iPod LCD left on because it is unknown how to turn it off?
21:41:27Lloreanpixelma: What's on the users ML?
21:41:35LloreanSoap: Readable, I believe.
21:42:58pixelmaLlorean: wrong info about the Ondio (including top-posting too)
21:43:25LloreanOh, that one. Yeah
21:44:52 Nick Kopfi|offline is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger (
21:44:53pixelmaSoap: I think Buschel runs a patched build with the LCD turned off. But really, I'd be against turning it off just to get another 20 minutes runtime or so because it's readable quite well without backlight
21:47:03bertrikpetur, my e200 just reset itself playing around after recording something (tried to re-load the config file)
21:49:21RalpH_himselfSoap: 4g can be read under good light
21:50:22amiconnSoap: iPod Video lcd is left on because of both reasons
21:50:45LloreaniPod nano can, in my opinion, be read about as well as an h100 assuming black text and white backdrop
21:50:50amiconniPod Nano lcd should be possible to shutdown, as should the ipod Color lcd type 1
21:51:16amiconniPod Photo (lcd type 0) shutdown isn't known
21:51:36amiconnThe Photo is readable-ish. Not as good as the Video
21:52:58SoapLlorean, has any thought been made about splitting the "Rockbox General Discussion" forum into a "Release Questions" and a "SVN Questions" (note title case ;) ) section - or some other way to separate the two?
21:53:16 Quit m0f0x__ ()
21:54:02linuxstbSoap: That sounds confusing - as most questions will apply equally to both, and I'm sure if people have problems with 3.0, we're just going to suggest they test a current build anyway...
21:54:08LambdaCalculus37amiconn: Mine is quite readable with the backlight off.
21:56:06LloreanSoap: Yeah, as linuxstb said, I think we're not really going to be too interested in questions about 3.0 that are unique to 3.0.
21:56:37LloreanWe're probably only going to do a 3.0.1 type point-release if there's some "It won't boot on Nanos, didn't you guys test this thing?" kinda bug.
21:57:08LloreanSo most questions should be met with either "that's a known issue, try a current build" or "please add that to the known issues page"
21:57:59gevaertsActually, I think "supported" means that _we_ have to add it to the known issues page
21:58:02linuxstbI guess there's also support issues - if Rockbox behaviour changes post-3.0. But I don't think splitting the general forum will help that - the posts should go in the area-specific forums anyway.
21:58:38Lloreangevaerts: Possibly. But it'll probably be a wiki page.
21:58:53nls4evercan anyone tell me when RockBox for sansa view will come out????
21:58:53linuxstbI guess we just need to change the guidelines to tell people to say if they're running 3.0 or the current build (and if the current build, the latest...)
21:58:54 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (" ajax IRC Client")
21:59:00Lloreannls4ever: no.
21:59:33Lloreanlinuxstb: Or make the guidelines ask that they explicitly state the version number in the topic.
21:59:37DerPapstnls4ever: 14. Nov. 2011 about 10:56pm +/- 10 seconds
21:59:55Lloreannls4ever: Because it's impossible to predict...
22:00:15 Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:00:36linuxstbnls4ever: Rockbox is just a collection of volunteers hacking on Rockbox as a hobby. No view owners seem to be actively working on porting Rockbox to it.
22:02:14*linuxstb wonders if the RSB will ever have a meeting, and more importantly, if beer is provided
22:02:38*petur gets thirsty
22:02:57gevaertsYou mean there has been no meeting yet? That's serious... Maybe even an RSB matter
22:03:38linuxstbExactly the problem... we can't meet until we decide on a meeting date, and we can't decide on a meeting date until we meet...
22:03:41 Join AhtiK [0] (
22:03:52*Llorean grins.
22:04:10*linuxstb proposes a RSBSB
22:06:33saratogaamiconn: did you see the power testing results from last night?
22:06:45*petur sees more and more bugreports added to 9286 :/
22:07:00*gevaerts has seen 80% of the RSB online during the last hour. Sounds like the perfect time for a meeting
22:08:05saratogaunless i've made a mistake it would seem that sleeping the COP doesn't do a whole lot
22:08:22saratogaso using it is almost free
22:10:13saratogaas a test of this theory, I would like to try parallelizing one of the codecs and see if battery life increases proportionally
22:11:30 Join webguest03 [0] (n=4b5ce96e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:11:53amiconnWell it's not free, but the peripherals in th SoC seem to draw more than a core
22:12:25amiconnThis suggests that we're still some SoC stuff improperly (unsurprisingly...)
22:13:32saratogaamiconn: looking at the tiny difference in power consumption from sleeping the CPU, I think the "sleep" just feeds the CPUs NOPs or similar
22:13:35webguest03can someone help me with erorrs in cygwin? when i try the make zip or make fullzip, is says 'sh: zip: command not found' I recently reinstalled and thought maybe I missed gzip, but ran the installer again and it appears to be there
22:13:51linuxstbwebguest03: You're missing "zip"
22:13:51rasherwebguest03: Not gzip. Zip.
22:14:04amiconnsaratoga: No, sleeping stop the core's clock until the next interrupt
22:15:00saratogaare you certain? I would expect turning off an entire CPU core to save more then a few mWs
22:15:42webguest03thanks, I didn't see zip on my first pass through, just gzip
22:15:51amiconnI am certain
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22:16:35*petur reads up on iriverflashing to see if he could quickly CF-mod his h120
22:17:17saratogathen the CPUs actually consume only a small part of the total power, and the peripherals are the main draw
22:18:09saratogai did all these tests on a sansa modified to not use the OF's bootloader, I hope that doesn't change my results
22:18:21 Quit webguest03 ("CGI:IRC")
22:18:56amiconnI wouldn't be surprised if it does
22:19:29amiconnThe OF bootloader presumably does quite some hardware setup
22:20:39amiconnOn the 1st/2nd Gen iPod there was a *big* difference in power consumption depending on whether the rockbox bootloader was entered from a cold reset, or via soft reset out of disk mode
22:21:04amiconnThe difference was so significant that I was able to feel the temeparture difference
22:21:39saratogai hate to mess with the bootloader given it's fickleness, but perhaps that needs to be another round of tests
22:21:47amiconnThe ipod got quite warm to the touch with rockbox booted from cold reset. That's how I found those DEV_EN settings...
22:23:09amiconnLater I did some measurements on my 1st Gen, and found that all-on DEV_EN settings cause the ipod to draw >50% more power than it does with proper settings when boosted
22:23:42 Quit nls4ever ()
22:23:49amiconnThe effect is probably lower on PP5022 as it's quite optimised. A PP5020 would probably be better for this kind of RE
22:25:25saratogais it possible to look at the dissassembly of the bootloader and see what addresses it stores to, or do they not generally store the addresses as immediate values?
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22:28:15amiconnI didn't look into sansa bootloader disassemblies yet, so I don't know. On the ipods, some modules of the OF and bootloader use literal addresses, some others fill some structs with various addresses at startup and use that (hard to follow)
22:29:46 Quit mcuelenaere ()
22:30:32 Join Thundercloud [0] (
22:31:09amiconnAn emulator would be very helpful for RE'ing hardware inits, but I have no idea how one can write such a thing without having access to the hardware specs
22:31:33amiconn(and having those would then make the emulator superfluous...)
22:36:45 Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら")
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22:46:13amiconngevaerts: Usb is still no go on my hub with latest svn
22:46:18 Part RalpH_himself
22:48:15amiconnIt takes ages to even enter folder in windows explorer (up to one minute observed so far)
22:48:42gevaertsamiconn: I found yesterday that it also doesn't work at all with my ipod behind a hub.
22:49:46gevaertsThe bug that makes it sometimes have an outdated filesystem view after disconnect should be gone though
22:50:54gevaertsOther bad news is that someone reports on the tracker that there is still data corruption
22:50:59amiconnYeah, saw that commit. I'm wondering why this wasn't done before, as hw usb targets have been doing this ever since rockbox learned to do usb without rebooting
22:51:29gevaertsI somehow missed the remount between all the ata reinit things
22:51:33amiconn(that was way back in archos only time)
22:54:02amiconnThere used to be a #define for this, USB_REALLY_BRAVE, iirc, which was removed several years later
22:54:35*gevaerts likes that name, and thinks it could be reused on the sansas
22:56:11LloreanShouldn't there be *less* corruption with serialize writes enabled, though?
22:56:41LloreanOr at least, wasn't there less in the past?
22:57:10gevaertsGood spot. I hadn't noticed that...
22:59:16gevaertsI would expect less corruption, yes. On the other hand we have no idea on how many errors there were exactly (only in how many files, but there may be more than one corrupted spot in a file), and there will always be some variation, so maybe this is an accidental difference
23:00:19LloreanIt might be worth asking him to run the test a few more times though. Or maybe even just chkdsk his device to make sure the corruption is definitely related to USB now.
23:01:20 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:02:27gevaertsHe also reported no corruption at all in previous tests (just after SERIALIZE_WRITES was added) when MartinR was still seeing it
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23:06:44*gevaerts asked some questions. Let's hope the answers shed some light on this
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23:20:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:22:51saratogaamiconn: actually, Toni's old emulator could get most of the way through the sansa bootloader, so that might be an option
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23:48:54webguest43what is the tmp folder for???
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23:50:03LambdaCalculus37Huh? tmp folder? What are you talking about?
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23:51:26webguest43I installed rockbox on my sansa e270 and along with the photo file and video file and record file there is a tmp file.
23:51:46Lloreanwebguest43: None of those are folders created by Rockbox.
23:52:20webguest43so are they from the original os
23:52:21Davide-NYCI'm having trouble building test_codec for the gigabeat S, anyone want to help? Here's a pastebin of the the error:
23:53:15Davide-NYCwebguest43: presumably yes
23:53:33rasherDavide-NYC: The issue seems pretty simple. test_codec assumes it's running on a player with frequency scaling. It isn't.
23:53:38 Part Inverse
23:53:48LambdaCalculus37Davide-NYC: Yo, dude! Got the same error as you
23:53:49Davide-NYCso I can just comment out the line?
23:53:54 Join ackers [0] (
23:54:06*Davide-NYC busts out his text editor
23:54:17webguest43do keep my mp3 player on the usb mode or do i switch back to mpt
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23:54:35 Part ackers
23:54:39Lloreanwebguest43: it's up to you, but it's easier to use Rockbox with MSC
23:54:41rasherDavide-NYC: I suppose the more "correct" (in the sense that it's still a hack) thing would be to set CPUFREQ_MAX to the frequency the S runs at (I guess, all the time?)
23:55:02Lloreanrasher: An even better solution would be to see what it does for Gigabeat F
23:55:05LloreanSince that has no scaling either
23:55:27LambdaCalculus37Llorean: Good idea. :)
23:55:30 Quit midkay_ ("Leaving")
23:55:44LambdaCalculus37Davide-NYC: Can you PM me?
23:55:45gevaertsThe best solution of course would be to implement scaling :)
23:55:47webguest43What folders do rockbox create for media storage? or do i just make them myself?
23:55:53LambdaCalculus37You make them youself.
23:55:54rasherLlorean: And do we know that test_codec works on gigabeat?
23:56:08webguest43k, thanx
23:56:12 Quit erram_ (Remote closed the connection)
23:56:13Davide-NYCrasher: I can build for GBF to test
23:56:15Lloreanrasher: There are results from it posted in the wiki, so I'm assuming it does.
23:56:23rasherMaybe there should just be #ifdef CPUFREQ_MAX { use that } #else { use CPU_FREQ }
23:56:43rasherI'm surprised it works for gigabeat, since that doesn't seem to set CPUFREQ_MAX either
23:56:58rasherIgnore me
23:56:59*Davide-NYC compiling
23:58:08rashers3c2440/gigabeat-fx/system-target.h:#define CPUFREQ_MAX 296352000
23:58:12Davide-NYCwhere is CPUFREQ_MAX defined?
23:58:12n1sthat CPUFREQ_MAX is just used for displaying the MHz needed for realtime
23:58:31rasherDavide-NYC: in (for example) target/arm/s3c2440/gigabeat-fx/system-target.h
23:58:42Davide-NYCyeah, I saw that after posting
23:58:46*Davide-NYC doh!

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