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#rockbox log for 2008-09-14

00:00:28 Quit brent113_ (Client Quit)
00:00:33 Join brent113_ [0] (
00:00:39 Join Mardoxx [0] (n=Mardoxx@adsl-87-102-115-248.karoo.KCOM.COM)
00:01:58 Quit nightmare (" ajax IRC Client")
00:02:40 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
00:03:11 Quit nplus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:03:20 Quit {phoenix} (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:06:29 Quit brent113_ ("Leaving")
00:19:40 Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:20:41saratogai've updated FS #9318 with a greatly improved patch that fixes mpegplayer, uses semaphores, and doesn't need to memcpy samples between threads
00:24:58jhMikeSI'll check that one out. btw, I noticed you didn't include pp5002 in the last one I saw. Any reason?
00:26:05 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:26:06toffe82jhMikeS: check your email :)
00:26:15saratogajhMikeS: lack of IRAM and me being too lazy to make it fit
00:28:19saratogajhMikeS: how big is the stack in the codec threads anyway?
00:28:24jhMikeStoffe82: will do
00:28:48jhMikeSsaratoga: pretty big? :)
00:30:40jhMikeStoffe82: much gratitude. btw, other player?
00:33:10 Join fdinel [0] (
00:33:40toffe82jhMikeS: :)
00:33:58toffe82what do you want ;)
00:35:15 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=BHSPitLa@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey)
00:35:23jhMikeStoffe82: *lol* when it rain it pours eh?
00:35:30toffe82jhMikeS: you want a s60 ?
00:36:14jhMikeStoffe82: if you're trying to just unload one, sure. I'm not in purchasing mode atm.
00:36:49toffe82jhMikeS: this one is not free :)
00:37:13toffe82I have some gogear hdd1630 but Ihave to fix them first
00:38:18 Quit bluebrother (Nick collision from services.)
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00:41:54jhMikeStoffe82: why the sudden move to philips players? I though you Toshiba 100%. ;)
00:44:12toffe82jhMikeS: I don't really know, I was looking for something that can run rockbox (firmware available, service manual) and I found the philips and it was cheap :)
00:44:37toffe82jhMikeS: yuo should ask lowlight too
00:46:47jhMikeSsaratoga: I get a malformed patch at line 123
00:46:49toffe82jhMikeS: I actually use a Sansa e270
00:47:37saratogajhMikeS: let me try again
00:47:49saratogamy SVN repository is dying
00:49:14saratogajhMikeS: try this one
00:49:41saratogasorry, the one I just reuploaded to the task
00:50:32jhMikeSmuch better, thanks :)
00:50:50booster606what model philips you got /?
00:51:22 Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:52:10toffe82booster606: sa9200 hdd1630 hdd1830 hdd6330
00:52:39toffe82the 1630 and 1830 don't work , bad microdrive
00:52:43booster606toffe82, ohhh never mind...i dont think those are close to the sa3025
00:53:12toffe82booster606: did you check for the firmware of the sa3025
00:53:46booster606toffe82, do you mean the FW form the philips site
00:53:47 Quit phinze (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:54:35toffe82booster606: yes
00:54:55booster606toffe82, yes my FW is up to date...and it sucks
00:55:22booster606i dont know anyone that has the same unit as me
00:55:32booster606im trying to get a lil crew together to work on it
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01:01:45jhMikeSsaratoga: the COP doesn't seem to be doing much. the thread always shows "B". :)
01:02:16jhMikeSit's working in any case
01:02:41danfuhryok, two questions that i can't seem to find on google or the wiki: a) can rockbox read from ext3 filesystems (3rd gen iPod 40GB), and b) can i disable the automatic reboot when a USB/FireWire connection is detected (didn't see an option in settings)?
01:03:47saratogajhMikeS: which target?
01:04:07jhMikeSsaratoga: e260. it's got about 1.5% boost (but I have tone controls on)
01:04:21jhMikeSoops make that 1.1%
01:04:52saratogathats from the buffering thread debug screen?
01:05:29booster606toffe82, do you have any files for the philips gogears that i can take a look tying to get a better understanding on how it works
01:05:36jhMikeSyes. and I was watching OS Stacks. the CPU still seems pretty loaded judging from plugin behavior
01:06:20saratogathe buffering thread screen uses 5 or 6MHz on top of the usual playback, so that sounds about right
01:06:21saratogaunless youv'e changed the code
01:07:46BigBambidanfuhry: a) FAT16/32 only b) Only by editing the code
01:07:59jhMikeSsaratoga: no, no code changes. The COP thread is hardly running at all since I can't ever catch an "R". the buffering thread consumes that much even when not buffering? wtf.
01:08:20saratogajhMIkeS: it updates like 10 or 20 times a second on that screen
01:08:35BigBambidanfuhry: Unless by b) you mean you want it to charge instead, then yes, check the manual for the key required
01:08:43*BigBambi crosses fingers that it is in there
01:09:50saratogajhMikeS: what does B mean anyway?
01:09:56jhMikeSsaratoga: it feels like more processing should move over to COP
01:09:57toffe82Check the wiki for sigmatelbooster606: no luck the processor is a sigmatel stmp, there several other player with this kind of processor and nothing had be done yet.
01:10:22saratogayes ideally whichever core isn't running the GUI should be slightly overworked
01:10:42jhMikeSsaratoga: *R=running, B=blocked, T=blocked with timeout, S=sleeping, + = boosted
01:11:33saratogajhMikeS: right now we're using about 15-20MHz of that cores time, so I'm not sure why its always blocked
01:12:27jhMikeSsaratoga: it's obviously finishing its work quickly and waiting most of the time which the codec thread is rather active
01:12:50toffe82booster606: Check the wiki for sigmatel
01:13:08booster606toffe82, ok thanks
01:15:05saratogajhMikeS: since we got an almost 90% speedup, I don't think its finishing its work much more quickly then the CPU
01:15:06jhMikeSsaratoga: I haven't even caught a "B" on the codec thread yet. Always "*R" with occasional "S".
01:15:47saratogawhy does it block anyway? shouldn't it be sleeping?
01:17:45jhMikeSsaratoga: S = what you get by calling sleep(). B/T = any condition that halts a thread for explicit wakeup (semaphore not signaled).
01:17:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:18:56*jhMikeS sees we have a funky new flash activity icon
01:20:33pixelmait's actually oold
01:21:05pixelmabeen there for a long time on the Ondio
01:22:26pixelmaand it was applied to other flash targets during this year's DevCon
01:22:29 Part antgel
01:22:58jhMikeSpixelma: explains why I haven't seen it before :) no ondio.
01:24:38pixelmawell, the Ondio was my first target and this was basically my first Rockbox work, only [IDC]Dragon added one small thing to it :)
01:27:15 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
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01:34:45 Part lasser
01:35:32 Part danfuhry
01:40:01 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:43:04 Join havien [0] (
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01:50:10amiconnspeeed :)
01:55:34Unhelpfulanybody recall the git mirror? and is it kept current? :/
01:56:07jhMikeSit's a highly guarded secret :p
01:56:32BigBambiUnhelpful: I'm pretty sure there is a wiki page on it
01:57:38Unhelpfulit would be much easier to generate patches on top of things that are not in svn w/ git... and if the mirror is kept going, i'm sure that'll be less nasty than using git-svn myself
01:58:06 Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!")
01:59:05Unhelpfulfound the wiki page. searching git mirror worked where git failed.
02:03:28 Quit n1s ()
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02:26:32 Quit ender` (" We know the speed of light... so, what's the speed of darkness?")
02:31:15 Quit Lambdumb ("Leaving")
02:34:41amiconnSeems like my MMC driver rework will save ~800bytes of binsize and ~4KBytes of RAM on the Ondios
02:35:18amiconn(and make it work for the Transcend 4GB card, and make it more stable and faster for other large MMCs, and prepare it a bit for MMC4.2)
02:36:17Unhelpfulnone of those sound like bad things
02:36:51amiconnThe only drawback is that it's not tested that much, so I'm unsure whether it should go into 3.0
02:41:57*amiconn will of course run test_disk on all MMCs he has around, plus internal storage, and also test some real-world scenarios
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03:01:07booster606what SDK do you guys use ???
03:01:31 Join d1sturb [0] (
03:02:30d1sturbI've tried leaving my ipod nano 1st gen connected to the computer overnight, but it still won't turn on and Windows/iTunes still won't recgonize it. Any suggestions?
03:02:37Unhelpfulif you mean the compiler, gcc. as far as libraries, i'm pretty sure all of them are *in* rockbox, except for whatever it might use from gcc.
03:03:08saratogajhMikeS: around?
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03:16:00Nimdaehas there been a bootloader change since april on the ipod video?
03:17:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:18:34saratogaNimdae: i don't think theres been a bootloader change in a year or two
03:18:41Nimdaeok good
03:18:46amiconnyes and no
03:20:05Nimdaejust curious because i haven't made a new build since april and decided i should upgrade and see if some of the probs i've been having get fixed
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03:25:38 Join setkeh [0] (
03:27:24jhMikeSsaratoga: here
03:28:59saratogajhMikeS: I'm not sure I understand your question on the tracker
03:29:11jhMikeSsaratoga: the libmad stages are CPU:parse->decode-> COP:synth->pcm ??
03:29:25saratogasomething like that:
03:29:47saratogathe CPU does all the decoding up to the synth filter, then passes it to the cop and meanwhile begins working on the next frame
03:30:18saratogawhen the next frame is done it gets the PCM from the synth filter and passes it out to the codec interface, and then hands off the current frame to the synth filter
03:31:38d1sturbI've tried leaving my ipod nano 1st gen connected to the computer overnight, but it still won't turn on and Windows/iTunes still won't recgonize it. Any suggestions?
03:33:00saratogatry an AC charger
03:33:33jhMikeSsaratoga: I'm trying to rephrase what I'm watching in my moment. :)
03:37:31d1sturbI have tried an ac charger
03:40:39 Join homielowe [0] (
03:43:26jhMikeSsaratoga: I suppose I'm seeing that there will be a stepping in involved instead of full parallelism
03:43:53saratogajhMikeS: yes the system is basically a circular pipeline
03:44:57 Quit setkeh (Success)
03:45:27jhMikeStrue, but I'm not seeing the concurrent part since once you wait for PCM it means codec can't proceed without the previously decoded block
03:45:56saratogajhMikeS: it doesn't wait for the PCM until its already IMDCTed the next frame
03:46:14saratogaso basically the entropy decode and IMDCT happen in paralell with the synth filter
03:46:57 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
03:46:59saratogaor rather the decode and imdct of the N+1 frame are in parallel with the synth of the N frame
03:48:40UnhelpfuljhMikeS: attached my debug progress and current work-around patch to FS #9312. have a look when/if you can? and sorry to be a bother.
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03:49:34saratogai think if we wanted to move towards more use of the COP, a great first step would be to make the function for inserting into the PCM buffer COP safe, then it would be quite trivial to multithread most of our codecs
03:50:25saratogathat function being pcmbuf_insert
03:50:41 Join setkeh [0] (
03:51:31Unhelpfulwould a lock to be held around modifying the data be sufficient, or is there something more complex involved because the code runs on the COP
03:51:32jhMikeSsaratoga: that's isn't really much trouble
03:52:17jhMikeSUnhelpful: I'll look at #9312 asap. I kind of wanted to take that code and make it better in general.
03:53:16 Quit d1sturb ("I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n 3.0 (March '08)")
03:53:26jhMikeSsaratoga: huffman/IMDCT is in the decode portion?
03:53:34saratogajhMikeS: yeah
03:53:49saratogasynth is litearally just a reverse sub band decomposition, nothing more
03:54:17jhMikeSand then synth takes subbands to produce the final waveform?
03:57:20saratogai think if pcmbuf_insert were made thread safe. we could just have the IMDCT library run on the cop and put samples into the pcm buffer without need for complicated synchronization
03:57:42saratogaas a bonus, it looks like pcmbuf_insert also handles most of the DSP stuff, sot hat would further reduce load on the main cpu
03:57:56saratogaof course it would also mean that most of the DSP stuff would need fixing
04:00:49jhMikeSit's the DSP and codec that should happen in parallel I think. SPC does that.
04:01:34saratogawhat DSP stuff does it do in parallel?
04:02:55jhMikeSthe core DSP does the previous frame processing (resampling to 44100, tone controls, etc.) while the EMU produces the next set of samples.
04:03:19saratogathese are effects internal to the SPC codec or part of the rockbox DSP engine?
04:03:27jhMikeSinternal to the codec
04:03:32saratogaah ok
04:03:37saratogawas thinking you meant EQ, etc
04:04:00jhMikeSyeah, EQ is done in parallel with EMU
04:04:21saratogaoh i see
04:04:41 Part pixelma
04:04:51saratogaso the builk of the main codec is on the COP, and effects are done by the DSP engine on the main cpu?
04:05:32jhMikeSEMU spits out samples, release the samples and goes to work on the next frame, codec picks up the released frame, and does the DSP/pcm insert
04:05:51saratogacodec runs on the CPU then?
04:06:28jhMikeSthe emulator runs 100% on cop, codec thread is on CPU handling the DSP/insert/fade out
04:06:48saratogathat would be interesting to try with mp3
04:06:50jhMikeSCPU handles the metadata and other misc. junk as well
04:07:06saratogai assume the CPU is still needed to request data from the audio buffer?
04:07:54jhMikeSat this point, yes. there would be caching issues but the SPC codec handles that itself
04:08:15jhMikeSbeing an atomic format the problem is pretty minimal
04:09:29saratogai realize the COP can't call read_filebuf directly, but are there still issues with teh data it returns?
04:09:30jhMikeSmpegplayer got around all that stuff by just having an altogether uncached file buffer which didn't really hurt anything
04:09:58saratogadoes it return an actual pointer to the file buffer, or a memcpy of it
04:10:26saratogai'm wondering what happens if the buffering thread spins up while the other core is entrpy decoding data returned by read_filebuf
04:10:35jhMikeSsaratoga: pointers
04:10:56 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
04:11:02saratogaso the front end of the codec cannot be done in parallel with buffering?
04:11:28jhMikeSif it wants a copy (to stitch packets together) it does so on the respective thread
04:12:05saratogaso the main CPU after calling read_filebuf has to memcpy that data at some point before passing it to the COP
04:12:43jhMikeSsaratoga: it could be if the buffering code doesn't have race conditions. if it does, we'll find them in trying that. :)
04:13:42saratogai have to admit, I like the idea of doing the backend of codecs and DSP on COP
04:13:46delttechnically SPC isn't a codec, it's a file format
04:13:56saratogayeah we know
04:14:04deltjust being a smartass (:
04:14:20jhMikeSsaratoga: for SPC, it loads a program into the EMU. for mpegplayer the process is very different since the threads assemble packets into elementary streams and the streaming layer can split the elementary stream anywhere.
04:14:54deltjust wanted to ask: when is the version 3 release?
04:15:29jhMikeSwell, nearly. some stuff is unbreakable to make it seekable.
04:17:02 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
04:17:11saratogaI think all of our main codecs [excepting MP3, APE and AAC+] now take under 40mhz, and many are pushing under 30MHz, so splitting by the backend transform [typically 15MHz] and DSP [typically 3-???MHz] onto COP gives about 15MHz of free time to the CPU without boosting
04:17:42jhMikeSsaratoga: running core DSP on CPU seems to be a good thing. SPC has two PCM outputs in a FIFO arrangement and the EMU can produce two frames before being blocked.
04:18:37jhMikeSthat's the thing, the inherent loading of the codec itself leads to different optimal ways
04:19:17saratogai'm definately biased towards WMA/AAC/Ogg
04:19:26jhMikeSWAV would be best to have the whole thing on COP. SPC which is power hungry does better with a DSP/EMU split.
04:19:37saratogasince theres a very natural place to split those
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04:20:28saratogawhat exactly is the goal of this COP work? better battery life or better GUI/DSP performance?
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04:22:10jhMikeSsaratoga: what can I say. apparently we get both. using the full hardware ability.
04:22:23saratogasure but we can get more of one or the other
04:23:45saratogaif we load things just right, we can lower the CPU core clock to 24MHz and save more power while still having an ok GUI responsiveness
04:24:09saratogaor we could aim a little higher, keep the clock at 30mhz, and not have such a sharp battery penalty for using the DSP
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04:26:49jhMikeSsaratoga: did you ever get a true COP utilization %?
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04:27:25saratogajhMikeS: i have no idea how to record it, other then estimating it from amdahl's law
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04:31:58jhMikeSsaratoga: it's probably a reading the kernel would have to provide partly based in the scheduler around the core sleep
04:32:59saratogaalright, i think i'm going to get some sleep
04:33:08saratogafeel free to work on this problem some more if you like :)
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05:14:09inigomontoyahello, has anyone tested FS #9318? (MP3 synthesis filter on COP) for PP targets?
05:17:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:25:11robotgeekjhMikeS: Do you know if anyone is working on a freq scanning code?
05:32:20robotgeekwhoops, sorry missed the night comment. sorry
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06:18:42jhMikeSrobotgeek: that was for saratoga. I'm not aware of anyone actually working on doing it right.
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06:38:18robotgeekjhMikeS: oh okay. i would like to come up with a rolling average kind of a thing, have not thought it through yet
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07:48:57 Join gregzx_ [0] (
07:49:47J-23Can my realname on Rockbox's tracker by my first name and first letter of my surname?
07:50:36JdGordonthe tracker doesnt need realname unless you want to submi patches
07:50:57J-23yes, but I submitted patch.
07:51:33 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
07:51:37JdGordonthen no... ful first/last names needed if you want the patch in svn (eventually)
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07:58:28 Join Davide-NYC [0] (
07:59:23Davide-NYCjhMikeS: nice to see you in the channel!
07:59:43jhMikeSrobotgeek: the application/datasheet does detail procedures though like most everything outlined in there it probably requires debugging/modification.
08:00:19jhMikeSDavide-NYC: Hello! Yup, had some downtime. :)
08:00:30Davide-NYCmuch deserved.
08:00:52jhMikeSThough "down" is probably the polar-opposite term in actuality.
08:01:09Davide-NYCof course
08:01:30Davide-NYCWhat are you working on now?
08:01:49jhMikeSin which realm?
08:01:57Davide-NYCThe RB realm
08:02:27 Join Rob2222 [0] (
08:02:47jhMikeSah...continuing the beast charging stuff. it has some tough points that should be solved so it doesn't turn into a mess.
08:03:09Davide-NYCare you familiar with the "implosion" bug?
08:03:43Davide-NYCWhere it rewrites the enrite filesystem..
08:04:22jhMikeSI think that was a bug the S was renound for...quite stupid of them to ever force-format the device
08:04:52Davide-NYCSome sort of safety mechanism. Everytime I try to upgrade RB it "implodes" like that.
08:05:07 Quit gregzx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:05:12Davide-NYCthen I have to sendfirm...
08:05:14jhMikeSI did experience it once after a FAT panic
08:05:37Davide-NYCWith me it's fairly consistent. Not 100% but definitely more than 50%.
08:05:59jhMikeSwhat do you do first?
08:06:03Davide-NYCYeah. I am leaving my S30 in a drawer
08:06:26 Join Acksaw [0] (
08:06:31Davide-NYCI compile a new RB zip, then I unzip to my S30. After unmounting *boom*.
08:06:41jhMikeSno panic or anything?
08:06:54jhMikeSthis is linux?
08:07:23Davide-NYCnothing noted on the device, but Windows will complain that the device cannot be unmounted (at first) so I wait and unmount the second time *seemingly* successfully.
08:08:02jhMikeShaving to disconnect twice happens on all my devices when extracting a full build and I have no idea why
08:09:04 Nick delt is now known as delt_zZzZ (i=1000@
08:09:19Davide-NYCI will try to pay attention to whether than happens on my H120
08:09:50Davide-NYCAnyways, it's good to seem you back in the channel and as usual if you need me to test anything specific just let me know.
08:10:04jhMikeSactually, I"m not sure it's all of them but it's a familiar problem beyond the S anway
08:11:08jhMikeSI'd have you test the beast charging patch but that sounds out of the question. btw, did you ever use the .tar method instead of UMS?
08:11:29Davide-NYCI'm not sure what .tar methid you speak of.
08:11:55Davide-NYCMy mind is like a sieve. I retain little
08:12:38Davide-NYCCurrently whenever the beast impodes I use sendfirm to send it a patched nk.bin
08:12:41jhMikeSdo 'make tar' and copy rockbox.tar into the MTP folder
08:12:52Davide-NYCthat simple?
08:13:31jhMikeSyes, the bootloader will then extract it (so long as MTP hasn't changed the destination director for those files)
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08:14:05Davide-NYCthe gigabeat bootloader of the rb bootloader?
08:14:09*jhMikeS hopes that didn't get removed or anything since it can also recover from the "Not found" problem.
08:14:29jhMikeSthe rockbox bootloader does it if the file was found
08:15:05Davide-NYCthat sounds promising. /me looks for his charger.
08:15:17*jhMikeS would love to reflash it and remove any trace of retailos
08:15:52*jhMikeS isn't yet that daring
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08:18:32Davide-NYCI know I'm blaspheming now but I'm not so sure the retailos is so horrid. I haven't spent more than 10 minutes looking at it, but methinks dual boot is desirable with this particular unit.
08:19:23*jhMikeS summons the inquisition
08:19:23Davide-NYCThe ability to delete all retail OS trace would be great though.
08:19:52Davide-NYCJust ordered a 32GB compact flash card (233x) from newegg
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08:20:34Davide-NYCGotta sleep. 'night.
08:20:40jhMikeSDavide-NYC: goodnight
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08:21:28J-23Is it possible to replace broken Sansa c200's audio connector with new?
08:25:10J-23Does it require only soldering?
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09:19:34J-23hmm, my Sansa c240 has a broken partition table. I tried to fix it by formatting player and re-flashing original firmware. What also can I do to fix my player?
09:19:47J-23fdisk output is
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09:39:04pixelmarasher: would it be ok to link your new fontstats page from the UnicodeFonts wiki? And I currently can't find the URL anyways...
09:39:36rasherpixelma: I'll switch them around instead
09:39:49pixelmaah, nice
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10:13:28markunrasher: I have a question about your table. The Sazanami-Mincho seem to have some kanji in them, but I can't find that in your fontstat table.
10:14:44markunrasher: never mind, I guess I do
10:14:46rashermarkun: might they be part of the hiragana or katakana ranges? (I don't know why it would, but then I don't know much about that sort of thing)
10:15:05markunrasher: no, I think "halfwidth and fullwidth forms"
10:15:14rasherAh, okay
10:15:15markunand CJK unified ideograms
10:15:45markunmaybe the table could be reordered a bit to show the scipts it supports instead of ordering them by unicode number?
10:15:59markunie group all the CJK stuff together
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10:16:56markunsame for arabic
10:17:22markunand mathematics
10:17:23rasherMaybe. This is more comprehensive though, and you get an idea which parts are actually done
10:17:33 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
10:17:36rasherSay if you use English, you don't care much about the latin extended bits
10:17:51rasherWhich might otherwise be grouped together as "Latin"
10:17:57markunrasher: I just mean to reorder the rows, not actually combine them
10:18:33rasherAh.. Hum. Maybe
10:18:38markunrasher: just like all the Latin* rows are together now
10:20:38markunrasher: If you want to I could give it a go and show you the result. Then you can decide if you like it or not.
10:23:37rashermarkun: nah don't bother, I'll probably have a go myself
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10:32:40markunrasher: there are so many ranges with "extended" ranges somewhere else in the table..
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10:34:15amiconnThose 'extended' range are often unimportant it seems (except for 'Latin Extended A')
10:37:53markunamiconn: I can't really tell since I don't know many of the languages/skripts (like ethiopian or georgian)
10:38:25markunI just think that moving them together instead of just ordering by unicode number will make the table easier to use
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12:01:08BigBambijhMikeS: Just a little beast charging report - I've been using it regularly since we first talked about it a week or two ago and as far as I can see it all seems perfect
12:01:54BigBambijhMikeS: The only annoying thing is that if the battery is too low you need the AC adapter, it won't charge from USB when off, but unfortunately that is the Toshiba flash loader :)
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12:20:47markungevaerts: I'm trying to find the SPI timing for the various LCD driver ICs for the Meizus. Can you find them?
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12:42:09Lysbertushi, i'm new to rockbox. Can somebody help me? i want to view ical files, is this possible?
12:42:38scorcheLysbertus: no
12:43:06scorcheand if you are new, might i suggest having a read through the fine manual? ;)
12:43:42Lysbertus:( i found a plugin called rockcalendar but it didn't work on my player (ipod 4G gray)
12:44:12Lysbertusscorche: jep, i downloaded it but it doesn't seem to mention a calendar option
12:44:47BigBambiThat's cos there isn't one
12:48:18Lysbertusand i get this working on a non-color ipod? it says "incompatible model" when i try to run...
12:49:10scorcheLysbertus: ancient site...
12:49:18BigBambiLysbertus: Also nothing to do with us
12:49:45scorcheLysbertus: for all practical purposes, all working plugins are included with rockbox in the zip file
12:50:34Lysbertusso there is no way i can get a working calendar at this point..
12:50:58Lysbertusi saw some feature requests concerning this
12:51:08Lysbertusis there such a feature on the way or not?
12:51:18BigBambiIf someone codes it, sure
12:51:30BigBambiAs far as I am aware nobody is working on it
12:52:51BigBambiLysbertus: People just work on what they want - everyone is volunteers in their spare time. Feature ideas can give people ideas, but that is it - there is no guarantee that anything will be done unless someone wants it enough to bother to do it
12:53:00Lysbertusok, thanks for the info and fast responses!
12:53:10BigBambino probs
12:53:36Lysbertusperhaps I will try to make the rockcalender plugin working
12:53:50Lysbertusbut so far my knowledge of C = 0 :-)
12:54:23n1sit will be an exercise in learning-by-doing then!
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13:41:39scotty_007Lysbertus: if you can work with patches and compile your own rockbox firmware, FS #9224 and FS #4760 may help you. I did a quick test in 4G simulator and they seem to work.
13:44:08Lysbertusthanks, but i don't understand much of this :(
13:44:27Lysbertusi think i will return after learning C and compiling
13:45:03Lysbertusis it possible to send a compiled version of the patched plugin?
13:45:40Lysbertusi am trying to compile it but my knowledge of compiling is terrible...
13:48:28scotty_007Lysbertus: if you really want to code or compile rockbox: this is the point to start from:
13:49:17scorcheLysbertus: a compiled form of the patch is a bit useless if you wish to update your build int he future
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13:49:51scotty_007Lysbertus: no need for C skills if you only want to apply patches and compile RB
13:50:14scorcheassuming the patches are not broken
13:50:30potato_i have done it! i have made a ddr clone type game, muahhahaa...
13:51:22potato_now i need to reformat the code to meet rb conventions, and turn it into a patch =(
13:51:58Lysbertusscotty_007: i will start by reading this then :-)
13:52:56potato_is the "HowtoVerifyPlugins" active?
13:53:19scotty_007scorche, Lysbertus: the two patches in question apply clean in the current version :-)
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14:03:11Lysbertusthe ubuntu repositry servers seem to be down
14:03:34Lysbertusi can't download anything
14:07:32BigBambiLysbertus: Please stay on topic
14:08:58potato_with out an active internet connection, wil i still be able to make patches? i read i require svn, which imprety sure needs internet.
14:09:04LysbertusBigBambi: it is on topic, i need build-essential libc and patch to compile the plugin but i can't install them. sorry for the confusion
14:09:21scorchepotato_: you will...svn keeps a pristine version locally as well
14:09:25BigBambiLysbertus: It isn't necessary to tell us here
14:10:52LysbertusBigBambi: sorry
14:11:10potato_will svn fry my download allowance?
14:11:25BigBambino worries - it is just that this channel is logged, and it is annoying when trying to read the logs to have to wade through irrelevancies :)
14:11:55scorchepotato_: it is certainly better than downloading tarballs..
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14:12:34potato_good point, thanks.
14:13:51Lysbertusscotty_007: I will have to give up for now... perhaps i will return in the future after a lesseon in C. Is it possible to provide me with a patched and comiled version that I can use on my ipod for now? If you don't wont to, no problem, i understand ;-)
14:14:32BigBambiLysbertus: Knowledge of C is not required in order to patch and build
14:14:38scorche[04:49:08] <scorche> Lysbertus: a compiled form of the patch is a bit useless if you wish to update your build int he future
14:17:09Lysbertusscorche: so i can't just install the compiled file on my ipod? like put it in the right directory and run it from rockbox...
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14:17:51BigBambiyes, but future changes in rockbox might make it not work
14:17:58scorcheyou can...i mentioned if you want to update...when you compile a plugin, it will onyl work with a specific version of the API...and if that number is bumped, it will not work anymore
14:18:55Lysbertusscorche: perhaps by then i will know how to patch and compile the plugin myself :-)
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14:22:32LysbertusBigBambi, scorche, scotty_007:i guess i will have to use the apple firmware for my calendar needs for know, thanks for the help everybody, hopefully i will have a bit time in the future to provide me a calendar plugin
14:23:06scotty_007Lysbertus: compiler is running...
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14:31:15scotty_007Lysbertus: here is your iPod4G build with calendar and rockcalendar (untested cause I don't own such a device):
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14:40:27Lysbertusscotty_007: it works! thanks a lot!
14:42:41mcuelenaereis there any way to make a redirect on the wiki without the TWikiRedirectPlugin?
14:43:39gevaertsscotty_007: are you the same as scotty on the tracker?
14:44:00scotty_007Lysbertus: have fun with RB and if you find bugs, remember to report them ;-)
14:44:20scotty_007gevaerts: yip
14:44:50gevaertsIn that case, thanks for finding where the calendar bug comes from :)
14:46:13mcuelenaereisn't it dangerous to allow <SCRIPT> tags in the wiki?
14:46:31Unhelpfuli notice a problem already with git mirror... my build doesn't know which revision it is. svn uses substitutions for that?
14:48:13scotty_007gevaerts: this was an easy one ;-) (and is also fixed in FS #9224, which is worth a closer look IMHO)
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14:51:35gevaertsscotty_007: indeed. I'd prefer that one to split bugfixes and new features (like non-recorder support_ though
14:51:46*gevaerts may spend some time on that
14:52:59gevaertsmarkun: I haven't seen those timings yet
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14:54:08markungevaerts: ok, thanks anyway
14:56:35 Quit scorche (Nick collision from services.)
14:57:13gevaertsmarkun: maybe start with the QT1106 timings and go down until it stops working?
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14:58:46UncleRemus How can I configure grub to boot differently depending on circumstances? I mean, if I don't have an wireless AP near by (say on the train) and still my machine times out booting when it has to wait when it configures eth1 (and I think waits for dhcp). I would like to have a few boot alternatives, but with the same kernel. Is that possible?
14:59:09UncleRemus In other words, is it possible to configure which rc-scripts are running during boot?
14:59:16gevaertsUncleRemus: this is #rockbox...
14:59:25BigBambiUncleRemus: That has zero to do with rockbox
14:59:49UncleRemusgevaerts: Ooops, sorry...
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15:04:15scotty_007gevaerts: do you have an idea what this simulator ifdef is for in calendar.c?
15:06:58gevaertsscotty_007: it's there since the very first commit in july 2003. I guess an old limitation that's been fixed since then
15:09:22gevaertsmarkun: S6D0129.pdf pages 143/144
15:10:20scotty_007gevaerts: good you noticed it finally
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15:40:27soapOk, let me talk for a moment about the whole RBUtil / issue.
15:41:23soapAs we all know RedBreva is no longer hosting, but still controls the domain name. He has put a redirect on the address to point to my (old) mirror @
15:42:40soapThis seems like it should be fine in theory, but bluebrother mentioned how (because of reasons I do not fully understand) it still does not work with RBUtil, but it does work if you navigate to in your browser.
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15:43:26gonzalexxhi there... anyone home?
15:43:28soapI see no particular value in ME being a continuing part of the chain, but it is a role I am willing to maintain so long as it is useful.
15:43:36BigBambigonzalexx: Just ask
15:44:03soapAccording to a recent email in the user mailing list by Christopher Woods:
15:44:16gonzalexxsorry to butt in... trying to register... got the code to do so... but the link brings me to a blank page (rockbox is awesome!)
15:44:24soapthere should be something I can change in httpd.conf in orger to make this work.
15:44:30BigBambigonzalexx: register for what?
15:44:43gonzalexxthe forums... didn't find anywhere else to leave a note
15:45:10BigBambiThat is OK - it is just you could have meant the forums, the wiki, the tracker...
15:45:21soapI do not have access to change httpd.conf according to 1and1, but should be able to change the appropriate setting in .htaccess:
15:45:30bluebrothersoap: it's quite simple: redirects to your site, but drops the file you want to retrieve −− i.e. rbutil tries to access Now it gets redirected to
15:45:32soapDoes anyone know what I need to change?
15:45:45gonzalexxthe page the link in my e-mail message refers to is the tracker
15:45:46bluebrotherit should instead redirect to
15:46:13BigBambigonzalexx: Where did you go to sign up?
15:47:32gonzalexxforums - register link
15:47:47bluebrothersoap: I'm going to try this
15:48:16BigBambigonzalexx: And what is the link you cannot access?
15:48:29gonzalexxthought the problem was the browser when going to the link provided... tried it in both firefox and IE... same blank page...(let me get the link)
15:49:08gonzalexx long number for registering I imagine)
15:49:26BigBambiI have no idea why the forums need to go to the tracker
15:49:27gonzalexxthat's the one that I received from the system in my e-mail
15:49:45gonzalexxmaybe I used the wrong link?... let me try this dance again :)
15:49:52BigBambiThey are separate logins and therefore need separate registrations etc
15:50:09gonzalexxunderstood... be back with news :) thanks
15:53:21gonzalexxthere we go.. the e-mail I got last night was " Notification from Flyspray"... the one I got right now was from the forums... thanks!!!!!!
15:53:52bluebrothersoap: the htaccess file should have a rewrite rule that matches the file part too. This works for my test environment:
15:54:09bluebrotherRewriteRule (.*)$$1
15:54:18soapok, that makes total sense in theory.
15:54:29soapdo I just put that exact line in the .htaccess file?
15:55:16gonzalexxthanks you BB, and all you guys... rockbox is awesome... you guys rule... good lock with your stuff (oh... and yes... the themes part in my installation didn't find the URL ... but I am sure I can manage... thanks again
15:55:17bluebrotheryes. You need to have "RewriteEngine on" in the htaccess file too (usually above the RewriteRule line, but I don't know if order does matter)
15:55:35BigBambigonzalexx: no probs
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16:00:49mcuelenaere\o/ /me found the bug that blocked interrupts from working on the Onda
16:00:58bluebrothersoap: strange −− it still drops the filename part
16:01:16n1smcuelenaere: \o/
16:01:40mcuelenaereand it was just a stupid typo :/
16:01:54soapobviously, bluebrother, is a subdomain of which points to
16:02:00bluebrotherisn't that the usual cause?
16:02:17soapI put the .htaccess file not in /, but in /rockbox-themes/
16:02:32soapWas that a wrong ASSumption on my part?
16:03:04bluebrotheryep −− you need to put that file on the server that does the redirection, i.e.
16:03:21bluebrothernow you created an endless loop for the cleansoap site :o
16:04:02soapthere is no server @, well no account for RedBreva - he's just modifying the DNS entry IIUC.
16:04:48gevaertsYou need to tell apache that you handle then. I don't think you can do that with .htaccess
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16:05:17soapChristopher Woods in the User mailing list sure seems to think I can do it from my end.
16:06:04gevaertsCan you add a domain in some web control panel somehow?
16:06:57soapI don't own the domain.
16:07:19bluebrotherthe cleansoap domain?
16:07:20gevaertsI know, but that shouldn't matter
16:07:45soapok, now you two have (easy task) confused me.
16:07:50soapstep back and start over.
16:08:31gevaertsThere is a dns entry for pointing to the IP of the server where is running, right?
16:08:55soapI assume that is how he did it.
16:08:58soapBut as I
16:09:15soap'm on a shared hosting account I also assume I do not have a unique IP addess, but go on.
16:10:18bluebrotherwell, host shows that points to a different IP
16:10:35gevaertsok. Then you need to tell apache on your side that it handles
16:11:49gevaertsYou probably do that by clicking on some "add domain" link in a control panel
16:11:51soapThat's what I thought Christopher Woods was getting at.
16:12:27gevaertsThe web control panel will probably assume that it will handle everything, but you can just ignore that
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16:13:33soapIt wants me to Transfer ownership of said domai.
16:13:37soapdomain even.
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16:13:53gevaertsthat sounds buggy
16:14:18*gevaerts hates these hosting systems that assume that everything needs to be handled on one server
16:15:29J-23hmm, "make[1]: *** No rule to make target `UI-e200r.bmp', needed by `/home/Moarc/rockbox/build/UI256.bmp'. Stop."
16:15:52gevaertsJ-23: e200r is the same as e200
16:15:53J-23when building e200R simulator
16:16:16J-23I know it differs only by original bootloader and firmware.
16:16:52gevaertsThe N and S options shouldn't even be there for the R I think
16:17:49 Quit stoffel_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:18:23bluebrothergevaerts: well, as far as I can see the "changed DNS entry" is in fact a .htaccess redirect somewhere at the original hoster (otherwise I couldn't explain the differing IP addresses)
16:19:48gevaertsbluebrother: could be. Anyway I think that if cheap web hosting companies are involved this is hopeless, as their software is usually full of completely unfounded assumptions
16:21:42bluebrotherI'd prefer to set up anyway, and maybe let that redirect somewhere (but doing a proper redirect ;)
16:22:01gevaertsWhat may work is pointing to a server that's fully controlled by someone who knows what he's doing (maybe the www or forums), and redirect from there
16:22:15bluebrotherand then adjust the server name in rbutil, as we most likely will do a new release for 3.0 anyway
16:22:24gevaertsThat probably works best, yes
16:22:43gevaertsWas scorche going to host the new themes server?
16:22:50bluebrotherdon't know.
16:23:38 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")
16:29:10soapI've already asked RedBreva to hand over the domain to Rockbox, suggested the Swedes be contacted regarding it.
16:29:53soapI was just hopeful we could beat something together with a lead pipe until that point in time, and Christopher Woods was suggesting we could.
16:30:34bluebrotherwell, as far as I can see the redirect is currently handled by a .htaccess at If we could modify that, we could indeed.
16:30:36soapMethod #2 would be for RedBreva to give me the domain for now, and then I give it to the Swedes whenever a permanent solution is ready.
16:30:53bluebrotherbut as far as I understand we can't do this :/
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17:49:34J-23Is there any way to help with implementing USB support in Rockbox?
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17:52:17gevaertsFind out what exactly goes wrong and fix it...
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18:16:33markungevaerts: meizu_dfu compiles fine in FreeBSD, I can't test it right now but don't see why it shouldn't work.
18:16:50gevaertsmarkun: ok
18:16:56funmanbecause FreeBSD is the DEVIL !
18:17:39funmanare the automated builds only made on Linux ?
18:18:04markunyes, I think those servers are all running Linux
18:18:53gevaertsI think there are one or two running OSX
18:20:18funmanthe Clip 'crashes' sometimes when unplugging it from usb
18:26:40J-23why all development ports have undefined keymaps?
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18:33:52bluebrotherJ-23: because they haven't been completed?
18:36:20*BigBambi points at the word 'development'
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18:51:51J-23Does mpegplayer on e200's resize videos in realtime?
18:52:38bluebrothermpegplayer doesn't resize on any player. That would be too cpu intensive
18:53:07J-23and does it do it on simulator?
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18:53:58bluebrotherno. Why should the sim have more functionality than the target? That wouldn't make sense
18:56:49*Kopfgeldjaeger lost his not-even-two-weeks-old e260 v1 last tuesday :(
18:57:14J-23locate Kopfgeldjaeger\'s\ e260
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20:00:40rljdid my inquiry get through a couple of minutes ago or did my net connection fail before that?
20:01:03gevaertsrlj: nothing got through
20:01:20rljhere goes:
20:01:22rljhaven't found anywhere mentioning it, but is mic/line-in recording broken on ipod 4g? all i get is an almost silent wav/mp3 file. if i really shout in the mic with a really high gain, and if i playback at maximum volume, i can hear myself really faint amongst the noise in the playback. so it does capture *something*. i just don't know how to make it capture properly. maybe my understanding of gain/volume is wrong.
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20:02:42aliverAre there any hard-disk players that are supported by RockBox and take AA or AAA batteries?
20:03:10aliverFrom my googling and reading the rockbox web site the answer seems to be "no"
20:03:15gevaertsrlj: what revision are you using?
20:03:38rljnewest build, downloaded half an hour ago
20:03:56rljbut i had a build a couple of months old before which gave the same results afaicr
20:04:02 Quit {phoenix} (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:04:03gevaertsaliver: the Archos Player and Recorder use AA (NiMH, but you can use non-rechargeable ones if you like)
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20:04:48rljso to be exact, it's r18513
20:05:07aliverAh, thanks phoenix, I'll look into those!
20:06:04gevaertsrlj: that is indeed latest. I'm asking because there were some ipod recording fixes yesterday. I don't know much more about it though
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20:06:21bluebrotheraliver: the archos players are quite old and use a dedicated chip for mp3 decoding. So if you want to use other formats you're out of luck
20:06:30aliverAlso, just out of curiousity, currently what is/are the best device(s) to use with Rockbox? "best" == most stable, most cooperative, most actively fixed when there are bugs.
20:06:44gevaertsaliver: what features do you need
20:06:47aliverbluebrother: Ah, that's not so good. I do use Ogg.
20:07:08BigBambialiver: Most of rockbox is common so bug fixing applies to most/all targets
20:07:28bluebrotheraliver: you can't record to ogg on other players too (no encoder has been written). For good recording quite some people like the iriver h100 series −− it has an optical input
20:07:36gevaertsBest device varies depending on whether you need recording, line in/out, radio, flash, big screen for video, ...
20:08:02*bluebrother agrees with gevaerts
20:08:07aliverNo video for me. Don't need line in/out, and don't care about big screen for video. Certainly don't need recording.
20:08:22BigBambiAnd in answer to your question I'd say archos, iriver h100, h300, iaudio x5, m5, m3, gigabeat f, x then sansa e200, c200 then ipods and iriver h10
20:08:25rljgevaerts: the fixes from yesterday seem to affect the 5g ipod
20:08:46BigBambiOf course, which of those depends on features as has been said - look at
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20:09:02gevaertsrlj: true. The ones for other ipods were thursday...
20:09:03*bluebrother notices he somehow was under the impression aliver was looking for a player for recording :o
20:09:10aliverAh! A buyers guide!
20:09:17bluebrotheraliver: check
20:09:35*BigBambi smacks bluebrother into a distant second place :)
20:10:00aliverI currently have an iPod video 30Gb. It's great with rockbox! The problem is just the damn battery life. I wish I could swap out it's battery but, you know apple.
20:10:03soaprlj, There has very recently been a total rework of recording on the 4G.
20:10:21aliverI guess I could get a Sansa. Those take AAA's
20:10:22soaprlj, there is no reason a current build should exhibit the same behavior as an older one.
20:10:24rljgevaerts: there's a fix from last wednesday which fixes audio playback after recording. that seems to work, i do remember it wouldn't play back after "recording". now it does. but the recording still doesn't work properly
20:10:28BigBambialiver: No they don't
20:10:33gevaertsaliver: not the ones that rockbox supports
20:10:37BigBambialiver: Not the ones Rockbox works on anyway
20:10:52bluebrotheraliver: not sure about the video, but I swapped the battery on my mini. Wasn't a big deal at all
20:10:53soaprlj, IIRC amiconn tested recording fully. How are you attempting to record via microphone?
20:11:01gevaertsaliver: why do you want AA or AAA?
20:11:02bluebrotheryou only need to get that thing open :)
20:11:35BigBambiMost players can have the battery changed easily enough even though they aren't officially replaceable.
20:12:06rljsoap: tried with source: mic (both mono and stereo) with a computer headset mic (works okay on the computer). also tried line-in with a cable straight from computer's headphone jack (not very high power obviously) to ipod
20:12:11soapSure they are all "officially replaceable" every one of the manufactures offers a replacement battery. Some just require tools the average consumer doesn't have.
20:12:17alivergevaerts: because I listen to audiobooks and it's a real PITA when I've got the time to listen to one, I'm, say washing dishes, and the damn thing loses power. Then I don't have any way to charge the battery up or swap it out. AA would be awesome for me, then.
20:12:42soaprlj, a computer headset microphone has the mic on a different ring than the 4G is expecting through the headphone jack.
20:12:57aliverPlus when the battery dies, the player "loses" it's place in my book. Some of the files are very large and it takes a long time to get back to where I was in the book.
20:13:00soapLine-in is only through the dock port.
20:13:26gevaertsaliver: I'd recommend a player with long battery life and recharging every night then
20:13:59soaprlj, The (mono) microphone recording ring is the same as the right (or left, I forget) headphone ring. You need to use a microphone which engages that, not the "fourth ring" your headset mic assuredly uses.
20:14:00rljsoap: oh ok. so line-in requires external accessory then? and microphone input assumes what kind of mic?
20:14:00BigBambisoap: Not officially replaceable as in the e200 is. You have to open it which usually invalidates the warrenty
20:14:01aliverThat's an option. My iPod Video 30G only gives me about 4-5 hours.
20:14:16aliverI need more like 12-14 hours.
20:14:53soaprlj, I don't know if it requires any special microphone - test with your earphones.
20:14:57gevaertsaliver: if you need a hard disk player, I'd recommend the gigabeat F. Mine last over 20 hours on 320kbit mp3 (no DSP).
20:14:58aliverYou guys would laugh if you saw what I do now. I use a Sony PSP and carry around a pocket full of batteries!
20:15:20alivergevaerts: holy snot! I'll have to check that out!
20:15:25rljsoap: the connector on my mic looks exactely like a stereo plug on an earphone. i assume the innermost ring is ground and the (twp?) others are data
20:15:55alivergevaerts: would 192kbit MP3's or OGG eat up the battery on the Gigabeat F?
20:16:04soaprlj, exactly? not tip +three rings?
20:16:08n1saliver: the iaudio x5l and m5l also have good battery times
20:16:17soapaliver, less than 320 kb mp3
20:16:21rljsoap: no. tip+2 rings
20:16:27gevaertsaliver: lower bitrate means less CPU isage, so more runtime
20:16:35rljsoap: but actually, isn't the tip the ground now that i think about it...
20:16:40soaptry with your earbuds - That is not what I expected from your headset.
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20:16:46soaprlj, yes
20:17:08gevaertsn1s: of course, but they cost at least four times more than the gigabeats
20:17:17rljsoap: ok, giving the headphones a go then
20:17:44aliververy nice.... because all my MP3s are 192kbit or lower.
20:17:49aliveraudiobooks, mostly.
20:17:57rljsoap: so i should set the recording to stereo then since they are stereo earphones? if i set to mono, i assume it will only capture what comes from the left (or right) earphone?
20:18:03n1sgevaerts: yes but the gigabeats are far less common in some places (like Sweden)
20:18:31gevaertsn1s: that's true, but the price difference covers overnight shipping from Mars
20:18:33aliverDo any of the players support swapping out their internal hard disks for, oh, say a 250Gb drive from newegg?
20:18:58aliverI'm sure I'm dreaming here.
20:19:14soaprlj, there is only a monaural microphone connection. Only one of the rings is wired as a mic input.
20:19:20*n1s wonders how the dap market on Mars is ;)
20:19:49rljsoap: that does seem to capture. quality is not great but whatever
20:19:49soapaliver, Only the archos players use a 2.5" drive, all the others use 1.8" drives which currently max out at 160GB.
20:19:54BigBambialiver: There is no 250 GB 1.8" drive
20:20:05rljsoap: what does the volume switch in the recording screen actually change? does it at alla affect the recorded file?
20:20:14scorcheBigBambi: i thought i heard about one that just came out
20:20:24gevaertsBigBambi, soap: there is the MK2431GAH
20:20:31aliverOkay so what about the 160Gb, can any be replaced with that?
20:20:42BigBambialiver: See the page gevaerts linked
20:20:53scorchesee gevaerts's comment =)
20:20:56scorchethough 240..
20:21:03soapgevaerts, IIRC that is still not available on the open market.
20:21:51gevaertsaliver: have a look at the HardDriveReplacement page. What you need to take into account are (a) Connector type, and (b) thickness
20:21:54BigBambiWhat interface is it? (The Toshiba site is as always less than helpful)
20:22:32soapPATA, so it either fits in our players or can be adapted to fit.
20:22:53rljsoap: ok, so when recording, there is no point in picking "stereo" and i have to figure out which earphone is wired to the mic input?
20:22:55BigBambiZIF-40 it seems. Me want
20:23:34soaprlj, yes. And once you figure out that you know which ring your "real" microphone needs to contact.
20:23:51soapThen you need to figure out (perhaps someone else already knows) if you need to use a mic with phantom power or not.
20:24:15gevaertsaliver: there are adapters to adapt between connector types, but then you need to take room into account, and it gets more complicated
20:24:49rljsoap: my guess from this computer mic since it separates the inner and middle ring was that both would actually be connected to the same wire, but that doesn't seem to be the case. the mic expects that the host (computer) mic port has electrical connection along the whole way (except for the ground)
20:25:21BigBambigevaerts, scorche, soap: Apparently it'll enter mass production at the end of this month
20:25:24rljso it only puts audio on one stereo ring and the ipod happens to listen on the other one
20:26:41soapI think the more exciting development is stereo line-in and using a nice microphone and a preamp. Nobody will expect a concert taper who shows up with an iPod.
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20:27:37rljsoap: yeah
20:27:47alivergevaerts: I used to work on laptops, so I'm at least a bit familiar with all the various issues in milimeter thickness and interface types.
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20:27:48rljsoap: ok, so it definitely reads from the right channel
20:27:54gevaertsNobody expects the Spanish Taper!
20:27:57alivergevaerts: thanks for all the info.
20:28:03rljsoap: guess my mic outputs on the left
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20:30:26aliverI will never buy another iRiver player since I got a "clix" (out of ignorance) a while back. It was unbelievably horrible.
20:30:48scorchethe older irivers are nice...
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20:31:15BigBambiMy H100 is the last of my players I would part with
20:31:18aliverwell, that clix model is NOT.
20:31:27BigBambiEven though I don't use it that much these days
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20:31:39aliverit won't even _charge_ without being told to by windows media player.
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20:31:50scorchethough this is getting a bit offtopic..
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20:34:36aliverIs the battery in the Gigabeat F sealed into the unit, or can I get extras and swap them out?
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20:35:01BigBambialiver: Search in the forum - people have changed it before
20:35:14gevaertsIt's well inside, and you need a screwdriver (and maybe soldering, not sure)
20:35:28toffe82aliver: you can find some on ebay, even with bigger capacity
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20:36:01aliverOkay, hmm, nice to know. The battery life seems long enough on them, but I still cling to the want/need to have a spare.
20:36:02BigBambitoffe82: Have you seen them for the beast?
20:36:39gevaertsaliver: the sansas have removable batteries
20:36:42toffe82BigBambi: they are some, they say it is the same ?
20:36:48toffe82as the F
20:37:18BigBambiOK, cheers
20:38:45alivergevaerts: The ones that rockbox supports?
20:39:21gevaertsaliver: yes
20:39:33gevaertsNo idea how easily available they are
20:40:00aliverhmm, I'll have to look at those, too. The whole flash-player thing is not so great to me, but neither is a sealed-in battery.
20:40:40aliverI could reorganize my books/music to fit in 4 gig slices, I guess.
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20:41:23BigBambiRockbox supports SDHC for the e200/c200 up to 32 GB theoretically (only 16 GB are no available)...
20:42:37aliverThat would be cool if those weren't so expensive. The best price / gig right now seems to be in the 4G range.
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20:52:57aliverThanks for answering all my newbie questions gents.
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21:09:58soapbluebrother, I strongly suggest solrize gets his music from a "black market" bittorrent tracker which zips/rars the mp3 albums. I'd just ignore him, personally.
21:14:01bluebrothersoap: I just (like a couple of minutes ago) found out that there is an official record company shop in germany that sells albums in a zip container.
21:14:33bluebrotherstill, I see no point in handling zip files on the player.
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21:23:36soapit would be like modifying my bookshelf to handle the boxes Amazon ships books in.
21:25:09gevaertsYou mean you don't do that?
21:28:48*bluebrother votes for reinventing the wheel :D
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21:54:21amiconnsoap: Mic recording *is* rather faint on ipod G4 and Color.
21:55:14soapis there any sort of recording testing you want me to do on the 5G?
21:55:26amiconnI know how to add more gain to it, but the noise floor will also be raised. The ipods aren't really made for recording, especially not from mic, only using the internal amplifier
21:55:35amiconnLine in should be ok, but I can't test that (yet)
21:56:03amiconnsoap: If you have a line in adapter, it would be nice if you could test actual recording, including gain adjustment
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21:57:07soapcan do.
21:57:12*bluebrother commits
21:57:32amiconnAs for the headset problem - the ipod headphone jack is switched to input, and expects the signal on the left channel. This is so you can plug a 3.5mm mono plug and it will work
21:58:18amiconnI tested mic recording both with a real microphone (dynamic, not electret), and by speaking into my earphone (left)
21:59:47funmanI hope nobody was around, "looks he's talking with his earphones"
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22:03:12preglowamiconn: do you still need nano testing?
22:03:18preglowi got busy during the weekend...
22:03:30amiconnDo you have a line-in adapter?
22:03:33funmanis it possible to build a target with no usb support ?
22:03:34preglownope :/
22:03:50amiconnThen there is no point in further Nano testing, imo
22:04:17preglowit's a dock connector adaptor?
22:04:22*amiconn expects playback after recording to just work
22:04:35preglowi hate that kind of connector
22:04:41preglowd2 also has it, unfortunately
22:04:44preglowbut i've got an adaptor for that
22:04:50funmanI'm trying to build a (not meant to run now) rockbox for the Clip
22:05:45amiconnI might order an ipod dock breakout adapter from Ridax
22:06:26amiconnThen I could do line-in and line-out testing on my ipods, and perhaps also on a nano - next devcon
22:06:31soapI long ago offered to buy such a device for anyone who wanted to work on recording / apple accessory protocol...
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22:27:55Unhelpfulhrm, does the F use the *same* 40-pin dock connector as the S?
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22:29:59gevaertsIt's the same connector, but I think it's a different pinout
22:32:51soapTHAT is a bloody crime
22:34:25amiconnIt looks like the Sansa and ipod connectors are also identical
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22:35:42BigBambiIt is definitely the same connector, but e.g. a S will not fit on a F dock (I guess to stop you killing it from the pinouts)
22:36:00soapSansa and iPod connectors are keyed differently.
22:36:05soapRidex sells both.
22:36:24BigBambiYeah, the S and F are the same physically
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22:43:23Unhelpfulyes, but we seem to know *some* pins for S, like USB, line-out? i was thinking about hacking an F dock. i know the connectors don't seem to be available separately :/
22:43:59gevaertsUnhelpful: ask toffe82. He found some
22:44:14Unhelpful"found"... like they fell off the back of a truck? ;)
22:44:27gevaertsNot like that, no :)
22:44:44gevaertsMore like they aren't sold as gigabeat connectors
22:45:30 Quit pixelma2_ ()
22:45:51Unhelpfulright. i remember there being some PDA-ish device that had the some connector on its data cable. i don't remember anybody *getting* one to see if it might be usable for F (S wasn't a working port yet, and i owned neither)
22:46:38BigBambiI have some, bought from toffee82
22:47:20BigBambiYou need to desolder some existing connections on them before plugging them in, but they physically fit perfectly, ready for whatever you need to do
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22:50:44Unhelpfulwait, F remote works on S? :D
22:50:56BigBambiin the OF, yes, to an extent
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22:55:25Unhelpfuleven so... could be something to work on, although my aim was more along the lines of a line-out cable, maybe +charge, for car use.
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23:34:15xDonnyAnybody there?
23:34:39*gevaerts isn't here at all
23:35:01xDonnydo you know if there has been any progress on 2nd gen nano's?
23:35:08xDonnyor how i could try to help?
23:35:28dionoeaYou could check the new ports forum category
23:35:33dionoeathere's a thread about those
23:35:56dionoeaas far as I know there hasn't been any significant progress since ... ever (except maybe the DFU mode thing)
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23:40:08xDonnywhat's the DFU mode?
23:40:54xDonnyand how do i get to the ports?
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23:44:51BigBambixDonny: Go to the forums, and click on the New Ports forum. Note the threads there are for development work only, not asking for updates etc
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23:49:49*amiconn just tried another old idea of [IDC]Dragon and me - chasing bitswap for MMC reading on Ondio
23:50:21amiconnIt speeds up reading 512 byte blocks by 15..20%, with smaller binary :)
23:51:38*gevaerts takes amiconn's ondio away before there is no binary left ;)
23:52:07*amiconn has 2 Ondios (plus 2 broken ones) :-P
23:57:24xDonnyok thanks BigBambi
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23:58:11xDonnyi got it into the DFU mode but my firmware isn't broken
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23:58:38xDonnyMy linux computer is downstair's with no working usb ports.. is there any way i can do it through windows?

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