| 00:00:00 | | Quit Strife89 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:00:28 | | Join Zarggg [0] (n=z@65-78-69-194.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) |
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| 00:01:16 | pixelma | Bagder: are the manuals already built? |
| 00:01:28 | Bagder | if you want to fix something, I can restart the build |
| 00:03:26 | pixelma | I just realised that "Change speed/angle (angle only while paused)" can be misunderstood - I wanted to say that you can only adjust the angle while it is paused but one can read it as "angle is only adjustable while paused"... anyone got a better idea (stay short)? |
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| 00:04:21 | bluebrother | well, the download page could already have a big fat link to the rbutil wiki page −− and we can add a hint that updated binaries for 3.0 will follow shortly |
| 00:04:49 | amiconn | Bagder: How could I check for a define (in EXTRA_DEFINES) in a Makefile? |
| 00:04:57 | bluebrother | rbutil needs some small path adjustments at least. But I'd like to make it query themes.rockbox.org too so we get a chance displaying a better error message |
| 00:05:16 | | Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:05:28 | Bagder | amiconn: you check for the "-DBLABLA" string |
| 00:05:28 | | Quit kronflux ("Leaving") |
| 00:05:53 | scorche | bluebrother: that would be nice, yes...just let me know what to do with t.r.o |
| 00:05:54 | amiconn | Hmm, but there can be several other options in EXTRA_DEFINES |
| 00:06:05 | pixelma | native English speakers? |
| 00:06:13 | Bagder | yes but make can check for a substring within a string |
| 00:06:20 | amiconn | I need to check for a bootloader build in firmware/Makefile, for limiting the font to pure ascii |
| 00:06:21 | dan_a | pixelma: "(only angle while paused)" would take away the ambiguity - but I parsed it correctly |
| 00:06:47 | bluebrother | scorche: can you put http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uhcn/rockbox/rbutilqt.php.txt on t.r.o and make it accessible without password or whatever? |
| 00:07:01 | dan_a | pixelma: or "(speed can't be changed while paused)" |
| 00:07:15 | * | gevaerts votes for that one |
| 00:07:26 | pixelma | the latter is more clear |
| 00:07:31 | bluebrother | as it only constructs an error message (anyone with better wording feel free to speak up ;-) there shouldn't be any issues with that |
| 00:07:41 | bluebrother | of course remove the .txt extension ;-) |
| 00:08:04 | bluebrother | rbutil will display the description= part |
| 00:08:14 | pixelma | dan_a: thanks :) |
| 00:08:56 | pixelma | Bagder: can I just commit it to the release branch? |
| 00:09:02 | dan_a | pixelma: you're welcome |
| 00:09:09 | | Quit bmbl ("Woah!") |
| 00:09:09 | Bagder | pixelma: sure |
| 00:09:43 | bluebrother | Bagder: rbutil currently retrieves the bleeding edge information from build.rockbox.org. Do you think that ini file could also hold the information for daily builds and latest release? |
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| 00:10:28 | bluebrother | would make it a bit easier, and also not require a new release once a new Rockbox release has been made |
| 00:10:53 | Bagder | well, latest release should be easy to add more or less manually |
| 00:11:35 | bluebrother | my idea was to have only one file to retrieve. The data gets asked for anyway, and it's only a couple of bytes. |
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| 00:12:22 | Bagder | yes, but it means that my scripts need to fetch info from several places to be able to provide it |
| 00:12:45 | Bagder | I've kept them independent since we can then easily run them on different machines etc |
| 00:12:50 | bluebrother | true. But starting multiple requests from rbutil make it slower starting up ;-) |
| 00:13:01 | pixelma | Bagder: sent |
| 00:13:18 | Bagder | manual build restarted |
| 00:13:56 | pixelma | nice |
| 00:14:48 | bluebrother | hmm. Well, first step would be adding the latest release info. But that would also need to hold the information for which targets the release has been made |
| 00:16:10 | | Quit mf0102 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:16:57 | | Quit dany_21a (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:17:56 | Bagder | now someone can respond to that lwn article with a smirk ;-) |
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| 00:19:33 | bluebrother | Bagder: how about adding a link to rbutil? |
| 00:19:50 | Bagder | does it install 3.0 then? |
| 00:20:41 | * | gevaerts can't think of a good comment to that lwn article |
| 00:20:45 | bluebrother | not yet, but I'm adding a note about that just now −− and want to create new binaries the next couple of days |
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| 00:21:06 | scorche | bluebrother: try now |
| 00:21:09 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 00:22:02 | bluebrother | scorche: nice, thanks |
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| 00:27:41 | | Quit mcuelenaere () |
| 00:27:47 | | Quit PaulJam (".") |
| 00:28:36 | * | rasher pops the champagne |
| 00:29:00 | * | XavierGr missed the party :( |
| 00:29:17 | XavierGr | Happy release day to everyone! :) |
| 00:29:30 | amdgoon | congrats! |
| 00:29:40 | gevaerts | XavierGr: release day was yesterday! |
| 00:30:02 | XavierGr | argh |
| 00:30:28 | XavierGr | well not for my timezone (as I understand) |
| 00:30:51 | pixelma | aren't you +1h compared to Sweden |
| 00:31:07 | XavierGr | I am +2 GMT |
| 00:31:18 | pixelma | so it should by after midnight for you too ;) |
| 00:31:27 | pixelma | ehh? be even |
| 00:31:32 | XavierGr | though there is this Daylight savings which could make it +3 |
| 00:31:35 | XavierGr | I am confused |
| 00:31:47 | gevaerts | XavierGr: let's make it simple. What time is it? |
| 00:31:53 | XavierGr | I just saw Bagder anouncing it after 1.31 |
| 00:31:56 | XavierGr | em |
| 00:31:58 | XavierGr | sorry |
| 00:32:01 | Topic | "Rockbox Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | 3.0! 3.0! 3.0! 3.0!" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 00:32:02 | XavierGr | I mean it is 1.31 now |
| 00:32:08 | | Join star_jasmine [0] (n=arwyneve@75.108.74.16) |
| 00:32:14 | Bagder | yeah, my mail was post midnight here as well |
| 00:32:17 | gevaerts | XavierGr: in that case you're in GMT+3 |
| 00:32:26 | XavierGr | Bagder anounced it 32 minutes ago |
| 00:32:38 | XavierGr | gevaerts: yeah Daylight savings is really confusing at times |
| 00:32:40 | Bagder | ah |
| 00:32:43 | Bagder | 23:59:31 in fact |
| 00:32:48 | Bagder | 29 seconds margin |
| 00:32:49 | gevaerts | Well done! |
| 00:32:54 | XavierGr | hehe |
| 00:33:05 | pixelma | there's the confusion |
| 00:33:08 | XavierGr | Well congrats to all of you. |
| 00:33:18 | XavierGr | but wow, 3 years passed already |
| 00:33:19 | star_jasmine | hi everyone. tis I, the cygwin illiterate. How does one do a defrag or reset of cygwin? I am having trouble creating sapi4 voices, and my sapi 5 voices are not allowing me to choose the voice which I set in speech preferences under windows. I have already uninstalled cygwin, and reinstalled it with the same result. |
| 00:33:22 | pixelma | and still the 23rd :) |
| 00:33:27 | gevaerts | Pretty important I think. "Three years and one day after 2.5" sounds great, while "Three years and two days" just sounds silly |
| 00:33:46 | Bagder | oh indeed |
| 00:33:52 | star_jasmine | also, cygwin is very slow on my computer for some reason. much slower than it was |
| 00:34:21 | XavierGr | is there a plan to release new bootloaders for iriver coldfire? |
| 00:34:47 | | Quit BigBambi_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 00:34:52 | ameyer | Could someone clean up the dialog box that rbutil throws up if you run it without a mounted player. The last sentence doesn't sound right. "The configuration dialog will now open to allow you correcting the problem" |
| 00:35:35 | krazykit | just fix the string in the source and make a patch |
| 00:35:50 | XavierGr | argh someone inserted a new lang item before the release (at least I saw it now), pitty. |
| 00:36:23 | gevaerts | ameyer: that dialog has been reworded just after 1.0.6, so it should be fine in the next version |
| 00:36:47 | | Quit lacrstech (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:36:47 | | Quit tecnmmag (Broken pipe) |
| 00:37:20 | ameyer | ok, that's good to know |
| 00:37:37 | gevaerts | ameyer: it now says "Your configuration is invalid. This is most likely due to a changed device path. The configuration dialog will now open to allow you to correct the problem.", or "This is a new installation of Rockbox Utility, or a new version. The configuration dialog will now open to allow you to setup the program, or review your settings." |
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| 00:42:06 | | Part pixelma |
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| 00:43:22 | * | Bagder copies over all the manuals to the download server |
| 00:44:45 | Bagder | oh voice files... |
| 00:44:54 | | Quit lasser () |
| 00:45:50 | * | bluebrother has rbutil installing 3.0 |
| 00:47:11 | | Quit pfwsmbkwt (K-lined) |
| 00:47:20 | linuxstb | Was the ipod 1st/2nd gen meant to be in the release? |
| 00:47:31 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:47:48 | bluebrother | expect new binaries tomorrow evening (at least linux / w32) ... |
| 00:48:01 | bluebrother | time for sleep now ... cya |
| 00:48:07 | Bagder | me too, night |
| 00:48:12 | gevaerts | bluebrother: doesn't work here |
| 00:48:44 | bluebrother | gevaerts: you need the most recent svn changes and luck to get the download master server −− or override it in rbutil.ini |
| 00:48:58 | gevaerts | bluebrother: probably the server then |
| 00:49:13 | bluebrother | download.r.o -> haxx.r.o |
| 00:49:22 | bluebrother | anyway, I'm out for tonight. |
| 00:49:35 | | Quit bluebrother ("sleep") |
| 00:49:39 | star_jasmine | I used rbuild, just as an experiment. is there anything I can do to stop the voices I create from having the ends of words cut off? cygwin doesn't do that, but I"m having trouble with it. also, is there anything I can do to just use sapi4 with rbuild? |
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| 00:51:52 | | Quit ender` (" I was trying to daydream, but my mind kept wandering.") |
| 00:55:05 | Llorean | star_jasmine: What is "rbuild"? |
| 00:55:40 | star_jasmine | sorry the rockbox utility |
| 00:55:57 | Llorean | Oh, in that case the cut off voices are a known issue, but I believe SAPI4 should work with it. |
| 00:56:42 | star_jasmine | ok I"ll try again |
| 00:57:12 | star_jasmine | with sapi4 that is |
| 00:57:50 | * | Nico_P updated the English and French rockbox wikipedia pages for the release |
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| 00:59:03 | star_jasmine | it gives a file size of 8 kb only. it had trouble creating a voice. I"ll try something other than the default |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:37 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf () |
| 01:01:24 | star_jasmine | no with sapi4, I still can't create one under the rockbox utility |
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| 01:04:02 | | Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 01:04:31 | Llorean | star_jasmine: I only know that I thought it's supposed to work. I don't know much about voice personally |
| 01:04:49 | dataangel | Is there a way for plugins to use rockbox's on screen keyboard thingy to enter text? |
| 01:05:12 | dataangel | like, as a widget |
| 01:06:57 | | Quit dany_21a_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:07:06 | DerPapst | dunno. but check the text editor or other plugins using the osk |
| 01:09:05 | * | DerPapst implemented an own osk in his last plugin (because i can and because i'm too stupid to operate the osk of rockbox :P). |
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| 01:14:44 | | Quit DerPapst ("iPodLinux rocks!") |
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| 01:22:10 | amiconn | Llorean: Cut off voices? |
| 01:23:05 | Llorean | amiconn: Voices generated by RButil clip a little bit before the end of the string if music is stopped |
| 01:23:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:23:17 | Llorean | Ones generate with the scripts don't, and rbutil ones don't if music is playing |
| 01:23:21 | Llorean | This has been going on for a considerable time. |
| 01:23:38 | amiconn | Then I'd think rbutil doesn't package the pause clip properly |
| 01:23:43 | star_jasmine | excuse my ignorance, but can I download rockbox 3.0 with cygwin? |
| 01:24:10 | Llorean | star_jasmine: Cygwin doesn't really have anything to do with downloading Rockbox. What do you mean? |
| 01:24:31 | Llorean | amiconn: I wouldn't know, but it's something that was baffling a few other people who looked into it, I don't remember any mention of the pause clip though |
| 01:24:34 | amiconn | The pause clip is important on the MAS, and it also seems to be important on swcodec, but actually it shouldn't if pcm would be working properly |
| 01:25:17 | amiconn | The PCM implementations seem to be a llitle buggy, in that they eat the last fraction of a second if there's no more data |
| 01:25:35 | | Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:25:53 | amiconn | I stumbled upon this when playing gevaerts's flac file of the rockbox logo converted to zx spectrum gfx |
| 01:25:54 | Llorean | amiconn: Different strength lengths would lose differing amounts as if it were rounding to the nearest N amount of data? |
| 01:25:58 | Llorean | string lengths |
| 01:26:27 | amiconn | Maybe, maybe not |
| 01:26:47 | Llorean | That seems to be how it's happening. The cutting off happens consistently for any one voice file, but not all strings seem to be cut off. |
| 01:27:44 | star_jasmine | I can download the source with cygwin right? I know I can get it from download.rockbox.org, but to make voices and so on... |
| 01:27:49 | amiconn | The spectrum gave me a "tape loading error" even though the image loaded properly. The last byte transferred is a crc, so that got cut off and caused the error message |
| 01:27:58 | amiconn | The pause clip is another hint |
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| 01:28:08 | polluxx | hello! |
| 01:28:16 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:28:39 | | Quit dan_a () |
| 01:28:42 | amiconn | Someone would need to make a voice file with rbutil to look at with a hex editor |
| 01:28:47 | polluxx | i was looking fwd to the release of 3.0 and now i cant download it for my h140 :( |
| 01:28:48 | amiconn | Then it should be easy to tell |
| 01:29:07 | polluxx | hello! |
| 01:29:13 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:29:30 | polluxx | does anybosy know why the downloads of the release dont work? |
| 01:29:38 | polluxx | d |
| 01:30:08 | polluxx | hm? |
| 01:30:17 | amiconn | Because you're too impatient and not all mirrors have synced the release. You got a link to such a mirror.. |
| 01:30:18 | Llorean | star_jasmine: cygwin is a linux-like environment for windows. You can download the source using SVN, or via the archive, as always. |
| 01:30:52 | polluxx | sorry, my intention was not to be impatient |
| 01:30:55 | star_jasmine | ok thank you |
| 01:31:14 | polluxx | i mean.. theres a page that says "download release 3.0" |
| 01:31:53 | amiconn | polluxx: It's okay. I'm often surprised by the lag of the mirrors myself... |
| 01:32:18 | * | amiconn thinks those mirrors are bad in their current form |
| 01:32:18 | polluxx | okay.. can someone send me the release for iriverh120, untouched? |
| 01:32:43 | polluxx | h140 (which is the 120 release) |
| 01:32:44 | amiconn | There needs to be either a "sync now" interface for the main site admins, or the mirrors should be removed |
| 01:33:17 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:33:42 | polluxx | hello? could somone please send me the release "rockbox-h120-3.0.zip", untocuhed, please? |
| 01:35:08 | advcomp2019 | polluxx, just wait |
| 01:35:31 | krazykit | polluxx, do have some patience in waiting for a reply. http://haxx.rockbox.org/release/3.0/ |
| 01:35:32 | polluxx | hm... i want to install it in a few minutes |
| 01:36:06 | polluxx | thanks, krazykit |
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| 02:00 |
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| 02:24:02 | b0ris- | Is rockbox 3 downloading down ? or are the builds 3.0 ? |
| 02:25:34 | polluxx | hello! i once made this but i forgot: how can i switch back to my old iconset? |
| 02:26:54 | Llorean | b0ris-: the mirrors may not all be updated yet, just try again in a while |
| 02:27:22 | b0ris- | ah thank you |
| 02:28:17 | Llorean | polluxx: You load all iconsets the same way... |
| 02:28:47 | polluxx | i found it. within the themes |
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| 02:32:04 | scidiary | can i get the password for your vmware linux environment? |
| 02:32:17 | Llorean | scidiary: The password should be on the page that links it. |
| 02:32:50 | Llorean | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VMwareDevelopmentPlatform#Username_and_passwords |
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| 03:23:12 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 03:45:07 | mmadia | Hi. May I get wiki write access? I've updated most of the broken Sansa E200 themes ( http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18668 ) |
| 03:48:18 | webguest35 | I just got a sansa view to in anticipation of it eventually running rockbox (mostly for the replay gain feature) and, though I understand from reading through the forums that the port for this model is hardly begun, I was wondering what level of interest there is in the community in the port for it. |
| 03:48:22 | | Quit Llorean (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:49:33 | webguest35 | just as to guage the likelyhood of a port for this model in the next 6 months / year |
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| 03:53:47 | advcomp2019 | webguest35, we do not know because it is depends on how many people want it and knows how to do it.. there is no time lines |
| 03:55:11 | ajonat | what's the size of the album art using the default wps? |
| 03:55:49 | ajonat | on an ipod nano |
| 03:55:50 | Llorean | ajonat: Depends on your player |
| 03:55:55 | ajonat | Llorean, :) |
| 03:55:56 | Llorean | I believe the size is included in the tag. |
| 03:56:02 | ajonat | tag? |
| 03:56:34 | | Quit scidiary ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 03:56:36 | ajonat | oh, Bitmaps that are too big will be cropped to fit in maxwidth and maxheight. |
| 03:56:36 | Llorean | In the .wps file |
| 03:56:40 | ajonat | thank you! |
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| 03:58:02 | advcomp2019 | mmadia, what is your wiki name too |
| 03:58:18 | mmadia | advcomp2019 : MattMadia |
| 03:58:23 | | Quit n1s () |
| 03:58:51 | ajonat | Llorean, %Cl|9|16|s65|s65| means 65x65, right? |
| 03:59:07 | webguest35 | Thanks advcomp2019 |
| 03:59:40 | advcomp2019 | mmadia, i saw you thread and new Plain Text VP works or it should |
| 04:00 |
| 04:00:11 | mmadia | advcomp2019: yes, it does. i just forgot to update that line : ) |
| 04:00:14 | | Quit webguest35 ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)") |
| 04:00:53 | | Join eagledrc [0] (n=chatzill@98.144.90.15) |
| 04:01:05 | eagledrc | hi i am new here fyi |
| 04:01:20 | advcomp2019 | hello eagledrc |
| 04:01:23 | eagledrc | i need the hidden partition dump file for hte sansa e280 |
| 04:01:29 | eagledrc | hi |
| 04:01:46 | Llorean | ajonat: I believe so |
| 04:02:06 | ajonat | Llorean, thank you, it works :) |
| 04:02:41 | advcomp2019 | mmadia, you should be able to edit the wiki.. hope you will not spam it too :) |
| 04:03:17 | mmadia | have i spammed something unintentionally? : ) |
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| 04:07:30 | advcomp2019 | eagledrc, just wait, you do not need to private message me.. i think someone will help you soon enough |
| 04:10:03 | eagledrc | oh okay i just don't know how it goes here. |
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| 04:33:12 | mmadia | For the wiki, would it be better to upload themes with a slightly different filename, eg WasBrokenTheme-pb.zip? |
| 04:34:25 | Llorean | I'd say it'd be better to replace the broken one entirely since the old one is unusable now. But that's my personal opinion. |
| 04:35:35 | mmadia | If I do that, would the original still be available in the revision history? |
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| 04:36:47 | Llorean | No |
| 04:36:54 | Llorean | Why does it need to be? |
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| 04:37:08 | * | mmadia shrugs |
| 04:37:34 | mmadia | I thought a post in the forum mentioned it would. |
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| 05:00 |
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| 05:15:07 | hcs | hm, 3.0 gigabeat F/X download link is broken |
| 05:16:23 | hcs | apologies, my DNS just sucks |
| 05:16:32 | hcs | congrats on 3.0 |
| 05:16:43 | amdgoon | :-) |
| 05:17:12 | * | scorche wonders where hcs has been |
| 05:17:32 | hcs | working on vgmstream, and working on work |
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| 05:22:59 | JdGordon | Llorean: hey, wasnt there some discussion about clearing the install forums when the release happens? |
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| 05:24:18 | Llorean | JdGordon: I think the idea was tossed about, but nothing really came of it. |
| 05:24:32 | Llorean | I think the whole install area needs to be redone at some point. |
| 05:24:47 | Llorean | Dividing by manufacturer is somewhat confusing, in a way. |
| 05:24:53 | hcs | hm, I don't think it was entirely a problem on my end, I am getting a lot of 404s trying to download the other builds |
| 05:25:10 | Llorean | What I should do, is like how "Hardware" has "Broken Players" under it, I could do "Install" and then subforums for players where RButil won't work. |
| 05:25:12 | JdGordon | hcs: you need to wait for the mirrors to sync |
| 05:25:21 | JdGordon | or just use rockbox.haxx.se/download |
| 05:25:45 | hcs | ah, didn't realize how little time it's been |
| 05:28:22 | JdGordon | has anyone done any "press release" thingies to send round to news sites? |
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| 06:13:45 | mercora | hello there, ive "bricked" my sansa e200 by formaing the wrong partioion under linux since then i can not access the flash on the device but it boots up fine ... i shows a message bout complainin here is not enough space lef for databse creaion.... ive searched around a bit and found some usefull information here but nothing from he faq worked for me... could somebody of you give me some ponits to continuee ? |
| 06:15:17 | advcomp2019 | mercora, you need to use the sansa.fmt file by recovery mode |
| 06:17:09 | advcomp2019 | mercora, here is a page that talks about it if you want it: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Unbrick |
| 06:17:26 | mercora | thanks i will try it :) |
| 06:23:05 | mercora | advcomp2019: i wan to sax thanks again this worked and was pretty easy |
| 06:23:42 | advcomp2019 | yep, your welcome |
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| 07:50:34 | | Nick Bagderr is now known as B4gder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 07:51:50 | scoles | Hey, I've been trying to get rockbox on my old ipod color lately, i just got a cf card to replace the hard drive and the adapter for it to fit, and i can write to it on the pc and restore through itunes but when i go to plug it into the wall outlet i get apple logo, then the folder icon then it shuts off no matter what i do so i cant get rockbox on it till i restore and i can't get the ipod out of restore mode |
| 07:52:50 | scoles | i've tried 3 different cf cards and none work, the ipod wont see it unless i go into diagnostics mode and run the disk read/write test twice then i can access the info on the card but i can't make sense out of why it does that |
| 07:53:04 | scoles | anyone got any ideas? |
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| 08:00 |
| 08:01:19 | B4gder | 3.0 3.0 3.0! |
| 08:01:27 | B4gder | :-) |
| 08:01:30 | scorche | =) |
| 08:02:08 | Llorean | It's exciting to have it out there. |
| 08:06:11 | JdGordon | time to start work on 4.0! |
| 08:07:02 | B4gder | a 1.0 step would be six years then? ;-) |
| 08:08:09 | | Join davidfg4 [0] (n=david@69.51.95.200) |
| 08:08:19 | * | B4gder sees that gevaerts replied to the lwn article |
| 08:10:12 | | Quit coatman (Remote closed the connection) |
| 08:15:12 | scotty_007 | scoles: did you try the bootloader from FS #9369? ("The most notable fix is proper support for CF modded targets...") |
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| 08:21:20 | scoles | yes i've tried the bootloader but i cant get the ipod to restore |
| 08:21:30 | scoles | through itunes |
| 08:21:59 | scoles | so i can't get rockbox to load up because of that |
| 08:22:33 | scoles | the ipod passes all of the diagnostics in the diagonstic mode but the hard drive one wont work unless i run the read/write test twice |
| 08:22:46 | scoles | my thoughts are that i may have gotten a bad cf adapter |
| 08:32:10 | * | GodEater does the 3.0 dance |
| 08:32:50 | JdGordon | take it off!!! take it off! |
| 08:34:22 | scorche | put it back on!!! put it back on! |
| 08:35:53 | BHSPitMonkey | it's like the devcon webcam image fiasco all over again! D: |
| 08:37:36 | GodEater | there was a fiasco ? |
| 08:37:55 | GodEater | juicy gossip I've not been party to ? |
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| 08:37:56 | scoles | are there files that the ipod will look for on the hard drive before it will boot up? something like system files? |
| 08:38:14 | GodEater | scoles: not files as such, but data on the firmware partition |
| 08:38:48 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey ("Ex-Chat") |
| 08:38:53 | | Quit BigBambi__ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 08:41:03 | scoles | hmmm that's supposed to be written during a restore right? i'm just wondering why the ipod doesn't detect the card right when i turn it on but it will see it after some fiddeling in diagnostics, theres a led on the cf adapter so i can tell if it tries to acess the card |
| 08:42:27 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 08:42:58 | GodEater | scoles: will it let you start in emergency disk mode ? |
| 08:45:52 | scoles | i can write to it in windows fine, i can restore it in itunes fine but as soon as i unplug that cable to put it in the wall adapter it will show the apple logo then the folder icon, i can go into disk mode and diagnostics mode and it passes all in there save the funky hard drive thing |
| 08:47:09 | GodEater | why do you immediately go from "restoring in windows" to "plugging in the wall adaptor" ? |
| 08:48:15 | scoles | i go for the wall adapter after it tells me to in itunes its a ipod color so i have to plug in the wall to finish the restore |
| 08:48:48 | GodEater | that's curious - I would only expect that to be required if it's attempting to reflash it too |
| 08:50:25 | scoles | hmmm well it seems to be in restore mode and it refuses to read from the card after i take it off the computer |
| 08:50:45 | scoles | i almost think it's trying to update my firmware too |
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| 08:55:26 | GodEater | that's what I just said |
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| 08:57:23 | scoles | sorry, its late here and I really want to figure this out, this behaves the same with different cards so maybe my cf adpter i got is the problem? |
| 08:57:41 | GodEater | maybe |
| 08:58:53 | | Quit GodEater ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 08:59:30 | scoles | hmmm i don't know, its kinda annoying theres a few things that could be wrong but i cant figure out which one |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:13:03 | JdGordon | what are we calling the windows/menu button on the beast? |
| 09:14:11 | amiconn | BUTTON_MENU iirc |
| 09:14:33 | JdGordon | I've decided to be useful and fix the lang strings... |
| 09:14:38 | | Quit gromit` (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 09:14:41 | JdGordon | so MENU? |
| 09:16:09 | amiconn | Not yet sure whether this is the best name |
| 09:16:20 | JdGordon | oh while I'm in the lang file... are we going to remove all the deprecated strings? |
| 09:16:24 | amiconn | The button mappings on the beast are mostly crap atm |
| 09:16:42 | | Join BigBambi [0] (i=86ceaf40@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 09:16:45 | JdGordon | from my quick play I havnt found them too bad |
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| 09:26:44 | * | amiconn summons LinusN |
| 09:30:08 | JdGordon | as usual we have more than 1 button for cancel... which is the one we should put on the screen (in the "OFF to cancel" splash)? Power or Back? |
| 09:30:34 | BigBambi | Is this beast keymaps? |
| 09:30:41 | * | JdGordon is inclined to say Back because its more accessable than power |
| 09:30:45 | JdGordon | and yeah, the beast |
| 09:30:48 | BigBambi | A fair bit of duplication there |
| 09:30:55 | * | amiconn would also prefer Back |
| 09:31:08 | BigBambi | I would put back in the splash |
| 09:31:24 | JdGordon | and I guess while im here... gigabeat F? |
| 09:31:26 | BigBambi | Personally though I use power - I guess I'm used to it from other targets |
| 09:31:39 | BigBambi | The F uses power |
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| 09:32:06 | | Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 09:32:07 | JdGordon | both work... I;'m just asking which to show the user |
| 09:32:13 | | Join blithe_ [0] (n=blithe@li35-144.members.linode.com) |
| 09:32:24 | BigBambi | On the F? |
| 09:32:39 | BigBambi | What can you use as well as power? |
| 09:32:48 | JdGordon | I meant S |
| 09:33:18 | | Quit scorche|sh (Nick collision from services.) |
| 09:33:20 | BigBambi | ah, OK |
| 09:33:23 | | Nick scorche|1h is now known as scorche|sh (n=scorche@squisch.net) |
| 09:33:27 | BigBambi | I'd show the user back personally |
| 09:34:52 | JdGordon | and the sansas? the menu button is called power? |
| 09:35:24 | JdGordon | hmm.... my bad, they are set already for PREV |
| 09:38:16 | * | JdGordon thought there were more key langs... |
| 09:39:07 | | Join lasser [0] (n=f@Wbfce.w.pppool.de) |
| 09:39:26 | JdGordon | ... Should I remove all the deprecated strings? |
| 09:42:03 | davidfg4 | I noticed that the wiki is missing an entry on the keybox plugin |
| 09:42:24 | davidfg4 | I figured the easiest way would be to do it myself |
| 09:42:32 | BigBambi | Yep :) |
| 09:42:42 | davidfg4 | could someone add write permissions to the DavidGianforte account? |
| 09:42:55 | BigBambi | OK |
| 09:42:57 | | Quit blithe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:43:02 | davidfg4 | Thanks |
| 09:43:51 | JdGordon | anyone know if the wps editor is actually usable? |
| 09:44:00 | BigBambi | davidfg4: OK, done. No spamming now! |
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| 09:52:01 | qoqoon | petur: could you maybe help me with an iriver CFmod problem? |
| 09:52:14 | petur | sure |
| 09:52:37 | petur | which iriver? |
| 09:53:24 | | Join culture [0] (n=sam@cpc1-bele3-0-0-cust658.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:53:31 | qoqoon | great. so: i've been running a 32Gb transcend CF card in my H320 for a few months now. i'm using your patched bootloader. it works okay, but i keep getting those I03 errors |
| 09:54:08 | qoqoon | you replied in my thread that those errors are due to a bug in the bootloader svn version you then used |
| 09:54:21 | qoqoon | so i tried yesterday and updated to the most recent i found |
| 09:54:28 | qoqoon | and i got the ATA -80 error |
| 09:54:45 | petur | explain 'the most recent found' |
| 09:54:53 | qoqoon | hmm yeah, that's another thing :) |
| 09:54:58 | petur | that would be v5 |
| 09:55:09 | | Quit scoles ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 09:55:11 | qoqoon | yeah, it said v5 when i booted it up |
| 09:55:30 | petur | that is the latest release, and way too old for CF |
| 09:55:34 | qoqoon | i just got the patcher exe |
| 09:55:35 | qoqoon | oh |
| 09:55:36 | qoqoon | okay |
| 09:55:43 | qoqoon | so i have to compile the source? |
| 09:55:47 | qoqoon | or are there any binaries? |
| 09:56:11 | qoqoon | i mean... it would be really really great if there was a bootloader binary somewhere |
| 09:56:20 | qoqoon | already patched and all |
| 09:56:28 | qoqoon | for the 320 |
| 09:56:29 | petur | afaik the issue isn't fixed yet so building from SVN will only give you the risk of flashing a bad bootloader |
| 09:56:42 | qoqoon | oh, okay, that's also good info :) |
| 09:57:06 | qoqoon | so just help me understand - the I03 Addr Error issue isn't fixed yet |
| 09:57:07 | petur | my CF bootloader in the wiki is what we have for CF for now |
| 09:57:10 | JdGordon | anyone know how to open the .pro files for the wps editor? |
| 09:57:17 | qoqoon | and the ATA -80 was due to unpached bootloader? |
| 09:57:22 | petur | yes |
| 09:57:23 | * | JdGordon thought it was a kdevelop project, apparently not |
| 09:57:32 | qoqoon | o-kay |
| 09:57:48 | qoqoon | if i remember correctly, you have a 320 as well |
| 09:58:07 | qoqoon | are you also getting those I03 errors from time to time? |
| 09:58:25 | petur | qoqoon : I get those Addr errors also on my h380 (with a disk), I hope LinusN has some time in the future to come up with a solution |
| 09:58:34 | petur | my h320 is an h308 atm ;) |
| 09:58:50 | qoqoon | hehe CF? |
| 09:58:55 | petur | yes |
| 09:59:12 | qoqoon | but only iriver players are affected by those addr errors? |
| 09:59:22 | petur | and my h120 is dead because I made a stupid mistake when making a bootloader |
| 09:59:43 | petur | qoqoon: can't say until we know where they come from |
| 09:59:52 | petur | looks like a timing issue to me |
| 09:59:54 | JdGordon | Nico_P: you were the co mentor? any idea what idea was used? |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:01 | qoqoon | it's probably best i keep away from compiling my own bootloaders, huh? |
| 10:00:06 | petur | yes |
| 10:00:43 | qoqoon | well, thanks. is there a thread in the forum about that issue that i can check periodically to see if it's been fixed yet? |
| 10:00:59 | petur | I think there were several |
| 10:01:09 | qoqoon | is the bug confirmed - is it in the bugtracker? |
| 10:01:20 | Nico_P | JdGordon: I'm not sure there was a particular IDE. *.pro files are Qt project files |
| 10:01:20 | petur | if we find/fix the issue it will also be on the MajorChanges wiki page |
| 10:01:51 | qoqoon | hmm... what is that error about anyway? |
| 10:02:01 | petur | qoqoon: I think there was a tracker entry as well |
| 10:03:10 | | Quit culture (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:07:17 | B4gder | the source link is now present on the download page |
| 10:08:25 | Nico_P | B4gder: maybe the current builds page could have a mention of 3.0 with a link? |
| 10:08:44 | | Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 10:08:44 | B4gder | good idea |
| 10:11:54 | markun | B4gder: do we have a plan for future releases? |
| 10:12:15 | B4gder | yes, next release branch/freeze happens in ~3 months |
| 10:13:24 | B4gder | branching again from trunk then |
| 10:13:42 | B4gder | if we feel a need for a 3.0.1 before that, we can just fix problems in the 3.0 branch |
| 10:15:58 | markun | B4gder: I always thought releases were pretty useless, but now that we have one it feels really good :) |
| 10:17:15 | B4gder | I agree! |
| 10:17:34 | | Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 10:17:52 | | Quit agaffney (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 10:19:24 | Nico_P | for those who can read French: http://linuxfr.org/2008/09/24/24523.html |
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| 10:20:03 | | Join n1s [0] (n=nils@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 10:20:06 | Nico_P | google translation: http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Flinuxfr.org%2F2008%2F09%2F24%2F24523.html&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8 |
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| 10:22:17 | | Quit qoqoon () |
| 10:22:51 | markun | Nico_P: thanks |
| 10:23:11 | Nico_P | the corrected "daily" to "dayly" :p |
| 10:23:17 | Nico_P | s/the/they |
| 10:24:27 | BigBambi | Nico_P: Haha, those frenchies eh? :) |
| 10:24:39 | Nico_P | :) |
| 10:25:07 | markun | with their words like "micrologiciel" :) |
| 10:25:33 | * | BigBambi still refuses to send courriels :) |
| 10:25:48 | * | Nico_P too |
| 10:26:06 | markun | BigBambi: I've never heard anyone use that word for real. Only telling me that it's the official word and nobody uses it. |
| 10:26:22 | BigBambi | I've heard it used at conferences and the like |
| 10:26:26 | BigBambi | But not in 'real life' |
| 10:26:33 | BigBambi | Anyway, this is a -community chat |
| 10:46:34 | | Join K3rl0u4rn [0] (n=yrenard@lns-bzn-32-82-254-46-149.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 10:47:26 | K3rl0u4rn | hello people, I just discovered your piece of software (thanks to linuxfr) and I would like to know if xclef HD-500 (ISM jukebox) are supported |
| 10:47:51 | scorche | K3rl0u4rn: all devices that rockbox works on are listed on the front page |
| 10:48:08 | K3rl0u4rn | I didn't find page about currently supported hardware, planed etc... |
| 10:48:46 | K3rl0u4rn | scorche: ok, so I guess it is not supported. Is there a chance it is supported someday or some people are working on this ? |
| 10:49:25 | B4gder | nobody works on it |
| 10:49:49 | | Join culture [0] (n=sam@cpc1-bele3-0-0-cust658.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:49:51 | scorche | ports happen when people with the capability, time, and the device itself come forward to work on it...that said, you can check the status of ports-in-progress in the "new ports" section of the forum...i dont recall hearing of that device though |
| 10:50:50 | K3rl0u4rn | scorche: ok, I have such device so I probably can help in testing some versions if needed |
| 10:50:59 | B4gder | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/XclefInfo |
| 10:51:28 | K3rl0u4rn | scorche: however, for developement parts, I don't know how much work it could be and what king of abstraction of the hardware you already have |
| 10:51:39 | | Quit hcs (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:51:42 | B4gder | it is a lot of work |
| 10:51:44 | B4gder | hard work |
| 10:51:59 | B4gder | abstraction doesn't help until you've figured out all the hw details |
| 10:52:04 | K3rl0u4rn | B4gder: found this page already but it does not say much about the status, I gonna check the forum part |
| 10:52:09 | B4gder | there is no status |
| 10:52:16 | B4gder | that's just early research info and details |
| 10:52:43 | K3rl0u4rn | B4gder: ok, I probably can not do this myself without help |
| 10:52:44 | B4gder | the hw is similar to the iriver h1x0 series though |
| 10:53:45 | B4gder | rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort tells the whole harsh story on how to proceed |
| 10:54:04 | K3rl0u4rn | B4gder: what programming language do you use for firmwares ? are you using assembly or C ? |
| 10:54:16 | B4gder | rockbox is primarily plain C |
| 10:54:18 | scorche | we use both, but primarily C |
| 10:54:18 | K3rl0u4rn | B4gder: ok, thank you |
| 10:54:46 | K3rl0u4rn | I gonna read some pages and come back :) |
| 11:00 |
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| 11:11:16 | | Quit ajonat (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:21:29 | K3rl0u4rn | looks like a really challenging task for a single human right ? |
| 11:22:01 | K3rl0u4rn | do you know any people that could be interested in porting rockbox onto xclef / ism jukebox ? |
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| 11:23:34 | B4gder | there was a few back then, but these days that's a very outdated target |
| 11:23:52 | K3rl0u4rn | I know, but hey, it's still working ;) |
| 11:23:58 | B4gder | you're often best off asking that question in forums for that target |
| 11:24:18 | B4gder | in #rockbox, we're already using rockbox on targets... |
| 11:24:19 | K3rl0u4rn | I used to check open-jukebox project at the early time |
| 11:24:28 | K3rl0u4rn | but it seems the project disapeared |
| 11:24:40 | K3rl0u4rn | and the knowledge disapeared with it |
| 11:24:49 | B4gder | I don't think they achieved anything in particular |
| 11:24:59 | K3rl0u4rn | I don't either |
| 11:29:00 | dionoea | hello |
| 11:29:23 | dionoea | B4gder: why do the manuals still have the Draft Version watermark? (or is that due to a mirror which hasn't synced yet?) |
| 11:30:01 | | Part Llorean |
| 11:31:03 | B4gder | those are the svn versions and no the 3.0 ones |
| 11:31:43 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 11:31:48 | K3rl0u4rn | looking at the forum points me that 1 guy in 2007 requested help for a port on XClef HD 500 |
| 11:32:14 | K3rl0u4rn | that could possibly make a team :) possibly.... |
| 11:32:23 | B4gder | go go go! ;-) |
| 11:32:27 | K3rl0u4rn | :p |
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| 12:00 |
| 12:00:54 | Nico_P | B4gder: are there manual builds for 3.0? |
| 12:02:33 | B4gder | yes, just not easily available as links yet |
| 12:06:38 | markun | I just converted resized the rockbox logo making use of the LCD subpixels for my gigabeat and it looks a lot better |
| 12:07:22 | markun | should we use it in rockbox? |
| 12:07:51 | JdGordon | for sure if it looks better |
| 12:08:07 | * | B4gder agrees |
| 12:08:12 | markun | one problem is that screens might have the same resolution, but different layout |
| 12:08:22 | markun | for example, the gigabeat screen turns out to be BGR |
| 12:08:50 | markun | when I first make a picture using GBR subpixels it looked worse than the original |
| 12:09:05 | JdGordon | blaa.320x240x32-bgr.bmp and blaa.320x240x32-gbr.bmp? |
| 12:10:17 | markun | one other problem is that for example meizu M6SL can have 3 different screens which might have different subpixel layouts |
| 12:11:00 | markun | but perhaps if can then just use the non-subpixel images until we find out that they all have the same layout |
| 12:11:58 | linuxstb | markun: In which case, you could just use CONFIG_LCD in the bitmaps/native/SOURCES file - with a comment saying why... |
| 12:12:52 | | Quit pixelma2 ("-") |
| 12:13:04 | | Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 12:14:00 | markun | does anyone want to test on other targets? |
| 12:15:23 | petur | maybe Jungti wants to test on h3x0 ;) |
| 12:15:30 | markun | ;) |
| 12:16:40 | markun | I'll first make some test images to find the layout |
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| 12:21:23 | markun | here is a 320x240 test http://130.89.160.166/temp/subpixel-test-320x240.bmp |
| 12:21:40 | markun | anyone with an ipod video who wants to give it a go? |
| 12:23:27 | Nico_P | I will |
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| 12:24:19 | markun | linuxstb: I was thinking of adding a SUBPIXEL_LAYOUT define in config.h which checks the CONFIG_LCD value |
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| 12:24:46 | markun | Nico_P: just set it as a background |
| 12:27:15 | Nico_P | markun: it's RGB |
| 12:27:34 | markun | Nico_P: ok, then I'll give you another picture |
| 12:27:49 | pixelma | JdGordon: wanted to ask you - why did you invent a new "albumart" feature for the language files? Is it "just" because some of the new port targets which are already in the build table seem to not have album art even though they could? |
| 12:28:28 | linuxstb | markun: That's better ;) |
| 12:29:12 | JdGordon | pixelma: its because the albumart code is surrounded in #ifdef HAVE_ALBUMART so what i've done is more consistant than using lcd_bitmap |
| 12:29:38 | * | Nico_P agrees with JdGordon |
| 12:29:48 | pixelma | I would have suggested lcd_non-mono |
| 12:30:03 | JdGordon | some mono targets have AA apparently |
| 12:30:10 | pixelma | ? |
| 12:30:54 | markun | Nico_P: http://130.89.160.166/temp/rocklogo-test-320x240.bmp |
| 12:30:55 | JdGordon | there should have been 0 delta for non AA targets.. |
| 12:31:14 | scotty_007 | pixelma: iPodMini has AA (but looks ugly) |
| 12:31:29 | GodEater | iPodMini isn't mono - it's greyscale |
| 12:31:29 | pixelma | scotty_007: that's not monochrome |
| 12:31:47 | markun | Nico_P: can you tell me which looks better on your ipod? |
| 12:31:51 | JdGordon | ah, ba yeah forgot we deal with grey and mono differently |
| 12:32:36 | pixelma | JdGordon: there was no delta and it was not my concern - just want the features list to not be bloated unnecessarily |
| 12:32:54 | Nico_P | markun: the bottom one looks sharper but i has a few colour artifacts |
| 12:33:46 | markun | Nico_P: hm, that last part isn't good. What kind of artifacts exactly? |
| 12:34:24 | Nico_P | the grey text at the bottom right has red parts |
| 12:34:26 | JdGordon | pixelma: sorry, no i was putting grey and mono in the same group in my head which is why I thought there was delta on targets which would hav been excluded by lcd-non_mono (in my head) |
| 12:34:36 | GodEater | Nico_P: and green too |
| 12:34:53 | JdGordon | pixelma: either way... features.txt isnt huge and should stay consistant with the code |
| 12:34:58 | markun | then I wonder if it's really RGB layout.. |
| 12:34:59 | Nico_P | GodEater: yes |
| 12:35:15 | GodEater | markun: personally, I prefer the way the top one looks |
| 12:35:47 | markun | GodEater: can you also try the subpixel test? |
| 12:35:52 | Nico_P | the shadow-type things in the b and o of box also have artifacts in the middle of the curve |
| 12:36:26 | Nico_P | markun: what kind of computer screen fo you have? |
| 12:36:39 | GodEater | markun: doing that now |
| 12:36:45 | markun | Nico_P: CRT, but does that matter? |
| 12:36:55 | Nico_P | my laptop's LCD behaves the same as the ipod |
| 12:37:12 | markun | ah yes, then you can see it as well of course |
| 12:37:21 | Nico_P | yes |
| 12:38:02 | Nico_P | markun: what are you using to convert the pics? |
| 12:38:04 | GodEater | I agree with Nico - the RGB part of the subpixel test looks cleanest |
| 12:38:55 | markun | Nico_P: some gimp script |
| 12:39:01 | GodEater | but I prefer the top picture in the logo file |
| 12:39:07 | GodEater | it looks much better than the bottom one |
| 12:39:19 | GodEater | it's anti-aliased a lot nicer |
| 12:39:30 | Nico_P | it's smoother |
| 12:40:01 | markun | I'll try to find a better subpixel resampler. I also see some artifacts. |
| 12:40:17 | | Quit markun ("leaving") |
| 12:40:47 | pixelma | JdGordon: maybe the HAVE_ALBUMART is unnecessary then... </semi-serious> Also, *I* wouldn't expect to see the album art size in the Rockbox Info screen, not sure if there's a better place but it would at least need documenting... :\ |
| 12:40:48 | Nico_P | GodEater: there definitely is some potential though |
| 12:41:39 | JdGordon | pixelma: well some people might want a build without it, and yes its not expected... but neither is disk space... |
| 12:41:47 | | Quit bughunter2 ("bye") |
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| 12:45:01 | pixelma | JdGordon: any plans on documentation? |
| 12:45:16 | JdGordon | who me</semi serious> :D |
| 12:45:23 | JdGordon | s/me/me?! |
| 12:45:54 | markun | GodEater: so for you the test image also showed it was RGB? |
| 12:46:36 | markun | or did you see artifacts in all 4 images? |
| 12:46:42 | pixelma | JdGordon: better than none... I guess |
| 12:47:12 | JdGordon | you missed the joke... yeah but much later tonight.... working on assingments now |
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| 12:49:28 | GodEater | markun: the test image showed it was RGB |
| 12:49:32 | GodEater | the other three had artifacts |
| 12:51:40 | * | GodEater has to go to a meeting |
| 12:58:27 | markun | Nico_P: I'll try this: http://oyhus.no/SubLCD.html |
| 13:00 |
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| 13:10:19 | MarcGuay | Err. http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FreeMusic? Don't other sites already handle this? |
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| 13:10:31 | MarcGuay | Lambda, Strife89: Care to justify? |
| 13:11:17 | * | BigBambi_ thinks that is going slightly beyond the remit of Rockbox |
| 13:11:23 | BigBambi_ | Where does it end? |
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| 13:12:24 | | Quit jfc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:12:34 | MarcGuay | BestGravy? |
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| 13:14:52 | BigBambi_ | MarcGuay: eh? Still, I don't really think that page should really exist, but I'm not bothered enough to really argue one way or another |
| 13:17:40 | MarcGuay | BigBambi_: Just taking a guess at where the end of Rockbox-relavence is, and a BestGravy wiki page seemed like the final frontier. As for myself, I scrubbed that wiki good and do care enough to argue. <sharpens pitchfork> |
| 13:18:19 | * | B4gder sides up with MarcGuay |
| 13:19:17 | MarcGuay | Should I just kill it? I can't think of a defence. |
| 13:19:47 | BigBambi_ | I agree |
| 13:20:06 | MarcGuay | In other news: Is there an easy way to convert all of the unclosed bugs "due in 3.0" to "due in 3.1"? |
| 13:20:15 | BigBambi_ | By not caring enough I meant if someone really wanted to argue for it. If it were just up to me I'd kill it |
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| 13:26:13 | MarcGuay | Anyone have a link for the 3.0 manuals? |
| 13:26:30 | B4gder | they're still only present in the release/3.0 dir |
| 13:26:43 | B4gder | no easy accessable links |
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| 13:36:45 | MarcGuay | ipod 1/2g still definitely supported despite the scrollwheel issue? |
| 13:36:50 | MarcGuay | (for 3.0) |
| 13:37:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | MarcGuay: I guess the 2G is, at least. |
| 13:49:51 | * | LambdaCalculus37 doesn't know about the 1G iPod |
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| 13:50:14 | MarcGuay | It has a build up. |
| 13:51:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | MarcGuay: True that. |
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| 14:00 |
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| 14:06:44 | * | MarcGuay smushes more wiki info together. Less is more. |
| 14:07:58 | hcs | more or less |
| 14:11:51 | MarcGuay | This line needs some work to account for release versions, if anyone wants to try a rewrite: "Check if the bug is still present in the latest current version *and* with the latest available bootloader. Rockbox changes fast and many reported bugs have already been fixed in newer versions." |
| 14:12:17 | MarcGuay | Presuming someone could report a bug in 3.0. |
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| 14:47:31 | amiconn | markun: Subpixel rendering is a bad idea if you ask me |
| 14:48:30 | zaytsev | Hello guys |
| 14:49:44 | zaytsev | My sister's just bought a latest Nano, but it can't play FLAC. So the question is whether some efforts on porting are undergoing and if yes is there something we can help with? |
| 14:50:24 | BigBambi_ | No real efforts no |
| 14:50:36 | BigBambi_ | There is a thread in the New Ports forum you can read |
| 14:51:05 | BigBambi_ | The problem is that a) the new ones are encrypted and b) even if that were broken, then the hardware is new and undocumented |
| 14:51:29 | zaytsev | Aha, I browsed the faq/wiki and just found out it is not supported with no real status updates |
| 14:51:39 | | Quit culture (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:51:52 | zaytsev | OK, I try to find it and read this as well. |
| 14:52:32 | amiconn | The problem is that not just different targets with the same resolution may have differnent subpixel layouts; there are also targets where different hardware revisions exist which may have different subpixel layout. How would you handle that? |
| 14:53:17 | zaytsev | I wonder what's the problem with breaking the firmware. Is it just a lack of people / interest problem? I am keeping an eye on this iPhone / iPod Touch buzz and they are really doing some crazy things breaking the certificates etc. |
| 14:53:54 | LambdaCalculus37 | Encryption and undocumented hardware are the problem. |
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| 14:54:38 | GodEater | zaytsev: the "iphone dev-team" are also extremely close lipped about how they're acheiving those breaks, so it helps no-one else. |
| 14:55:28 | zaytsev | GodEater, you mean they are just disguised Apple guys :-) ? |
| 14:55:56 | GodEater | it's not a possibility I'd discount entirely... |
| 14:57:22 | zaytsev | I had an impression that they have a public wiki and they put their code in public domain, and then they have an IRC channel. Maybe I am wrong, I am not a dev, I just read news about their so to say outstanding achievements breaking Infineon chips from time to time. |
| 14:58:09 | zaytsev | OK, found those iPod threads, gonna read them first... |
| 14:58:26 | markun | amiconn: yes, I think so too now. After some thinking I realized that it only works for grayscale images. |
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| 15:00:08 | LambdaCalculus37 | zaytsev: Only in a perfect world. |
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| 15:15:48 | GodEater | zaytsev: they have a wiki which they give out status reports on, *some* of their code is public too - but it relies on the break already having happened. They have no details on how they've found the breaks at all. |
| 15:16:28 | zaytsev | That is strange. Still reading the threads... |
| 15:18:42 | GodEater | my personal opinion is that they're kind of immature about it all. "It's our code, you can't have it" |
| 15:18:56 | GodEater | but there's no sense complaining - the information isn't out there, for whatever reason |
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| 15:23:30 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:25:11 | zaytsev | OK, finished my reading overall it's pretty sad. I can contribute some money (which is a you say the least concern), the dumps of whatever it is as long as it stays functional (MacBook Pro + iPod owner), but I absolutely have no time to spend and I am not smart in crypto ;-( |
| 15:26:47 | GodEater | I doubt there's anything you can dump on the Nano 4G |
| 15:26:56 | BigBambi_ | zaytsev: Sadly that isn't much help |
| 15:27:05 | GodEater | the ipods after the 2G Nano hid the firmware partitions completely |
| 15:27:22 | BigBambi_ | zaytsev: Unless someone breaks the cryptography it is pointless, and even then... |
| 15:27:57 | GodEater | even then it's still a mountain of work |
| 15:28:26 | | Join Saucisson [0] (n=miaou@ks351860.kimsufi.com) |
| 15:29:39 | preglow | a very huge one |
| 15:30:13 | preglow | one can pretty much just forget newer ipods, apple has made it very clear they don't want anything third-party on it |
| 15:30:24 | preglow | so just don't buy them |
| 15:30:33 | zaytsev | I would LOVE to forget about them. But the thing is... |
| 15:30:57 | BigBambi_ | Honestly, there is better, more open hardware out there |
| 15:31:14 | LambdaCalculus37 | The thing is that you have eBay to get a Rockbox-compatible DAP. |
| 15:31:23 | zaytsev | Where would I get an iPod nano sized player that works with rockbox (I need that to play FLAC)? |
| 15:31:29 | preglow | yeah, sadly |
| 15:31:40 | LambdaCalculus37 | zaytsev: Does it *have* to be a nano? |
| 15:31:44 | zaytsev | No |
| 15:31:45 | hcs | got my Sansa e260 on woot |
| 15:31:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | You can get an e200 on Froobi now. |
| 15:32:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | They even sell v1's! |
| 15:32:31 | | Quit MethoS- (No route to host) |
| 15:32:32 | GodEater | a c200 would be better, it's even smaller |
| 15:32:37 | LambdaCalculus37 | http://www.froobi.com/SanDisk-Sansa-e280-MP3Media-Player-Factory-Recertified-Rockbox-Ready_p_78-32283.html |
| 15:32:56 | zaytsev | I had Meizu Music Card for a half an year, but it was a bit buggy (although tolerable) and then just broke completely (I think that the USB thing just desoldered or whatever it was). So I've got a refund. |
| 15:34:17 | | Nick delt_zZzZ is now known as delt (i=1000@66.234.26.5) |
| 15:34:24 | delt | hello |
| 15:34:34 | zaytsev | Hmm, I am going to look them up. |
| 15:34:43 | delt | something weird happened on my ipod the other day |
| 15:35:14 | zaytsev | I don't think it is possible to find them in Russia though... maybe possible ship to some friend in Europe/States though. |
| 15:35:32 | delt | the progress bar and the timer were "stuck" |
| 15:35:55 | delt | even though the music was playing |
| 15:35:57 | | Join moos [0] (i=moos@81-66-128-18.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 15:36:16 | GodEater | Are we changing our support rules on the forums btw ? |
| 15:36:26 | GodEater | since the release of 3.0 ? |
| 15:36:35 | delt | also, (dont know if it's supposed to be this way) but when i unplugged the earphones and unlocked the "lock" button, rockbox immediately shut down |
| 15:36:59 | delt | (said "shutting down" for a few seconds then turned off the player) |
| 15:37:25 | delt | <−−- will download rockbox 3.0 |
| 15:37:29 | zaytsev | Sansa c200 up to 2 Gbs ? This is hilarious if you're keen on lossless music |
| 15:37:43 | GodEater | zaytsev: they're expandable with microsdhc cards |
| 15:37:51 | GodEater | I have a 9Gb c200 |
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| 15:38:13 | | Join Schmogel [0] (n=Miranda@p3EE2196F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:38:14 | GodEater | if I find any money in the back of the couch, I might upgrade it to 17Gb soon too |
| 15:38:16 | delt | GodEater: how much did you pay for it? |
| 15:38:28 | zaytsev | Ic! it sounds reasonable |
| 15:38:32 | GodEater | £12.00 for the player £25 for the sdhc card. |
| 15:38:40 | GodEater | bargain! |
| 15:38:49 | delt | holy shit, where did you find that? |
| 15:39:00 | BigBambi_ | bigpockets.co.uk |
| 15:39:02 | GodEater | I don't recall where we got the player from - there was a job lot going somewhere |
| 15:39:09 | GodEater | well remembered BigBambi_ :) |
| 15:39:15 | BigBambi_ | They had a load of cheap v1 c240s going |
| 15:39:23 | BigBambi_ | But that was a good long time ago |
| 15:39:36 | GodEater | not that we knew they were all V1s mind you - we just hoped for the best. At £12 who cared ? :) |
| 15:39:39 | BigBambi_ | GodEater: I bought one too, but I've probably booted it three times :) |
| 15:39:51 | GodEater | It's a decent little player I think |
| 15:39:54 | BigBambi_ | I just couldn't pass it up for £12 :) |
| 15:39:59 | GodEater | me neither |
| 15:40:01 | GodEater | I didn't need it |
| 15:40:02 | BigBambi_ | Yes, I think it is fine for what it does |
| 15:40:03 | delt | £12 that would be about $25 canadian right? |
| 15:40:07 | GodEater | about that |
| 15:40:08 | BigBambi_ | no idea |
| 15:40:21 | GodEater | CAD/USD are about on a par at the moment I think BigBambi_ |
| 15:40:40 | BigBambi_ | OK |
| 15:40:41 | delt | and £25 == about cad$40 |
| 15:40:50 | GodEater | there abouts |
| 15:41:08 | delt | excellent deal!! |
| 15:41:36 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:41:41 | GodEater | BigBambi_: the day after my c200 arrived I saw one for sale in Maplins for £45. Rip off! |
| 15:41:54 | delt | i used to have a cheap 1gb sansa "sandisk"..... it broke after a few weeks |
| 15:42:32 | delt | why is there a "Â" before each time you put a "£"? |
| 15:42:42 | GodEater | your IRC client is broken |
| 15:42:52 | BigBambi_ | GodEater: That's rubbish indeed |
| 15:43:10 | delt | probable, im using an old version of bitchx in a terminal emulator |
| 15:43:28 | GodEater | delt: ah, in that case perhaps your terminal is not set to UTF-8 ? |
| 15:43:36 | delt | through screen |
| 15:43:59 | delt | nah, i think screen is the problem |
| 15:44:16 | GodEater | delt: what's LANG set to ? |
| 15:44:20 | GodEater | I doubt it |
| 15:44:26 | delt | en_US |
| 15:44:30 | zaytsev | OK, read the faq & wiki. So you do no support UMS, we have to boot the Sansa thing to upload music, then reboot in Rockbox to play it. |
| 15:44:40 | BigBambi_ | Yes |
| 15:44:47 | GodEater | delt: that's your problem then |
| 15:44:59 | BigBambi_ | at the moment anyway, for some players (that includes Sansas) |
| 15:45:08 | GodEater | you probably want en_US.UTF-8 |
| 15:45:19 | delt | haven't fiddled around with textmode settings for like, years |
| 15:45:35 | GodEater | delt: about time you did then ;) |
| 15:45:41 | delt | even though i use textmode consoles all the time |
| 15:45:43 | delt | yepyep |
| 15:46:04 | GodEater | zaytsev: there is an experimental USB stack for UMS in Rockbox which you can enable if you build your own |
| 15:46:19 | GodEater | otherwise, correct, you'd have to boot the sansa into it's original OF to transfer music. |
| 15:46:21 | delt | most stuff just works fine, so i never got around to fixing these slight little quirks |
| 15:46:39 | GodEater | I moved everything over to UTF-8 about 6 years ago |
| 15:46:44 | GodEater | was painful at the time - but so worth it |
| 15:46:48 | zaytsev | OK, the other problem is how do I find it out whether it is a v1 or v2? I mean I can buy it from the web shop and ask them to ship it so someone in Europe but I can't try the player before I buy to get to the settings |
| 15:46:54 | BigBambi_ | zaytsev: But due to a bug in the SD driver (I hope gevaerts is watching), there is a chance you will corrupt the filesystem using it |
| 15:47:08 | GodEater | zaytsev: the *only* way to tell is to get someone to turn it on, and check the firmware version it reports |
| 15:47:13 | BigBambi_ | zaytsev: The only way is to look at the OF version |
| 15:47:15 | GodEater | there is no other 100% reliable method |
| 15:47:39 | GodEater | which is why we like froobi - they check for you |
| 15:48:02 | GodEater | most other web vendors wouldn't bother, even if they knew how, which most wouldn't. |
| 15:48:55 | zaytsev | Pardon my ignorance but is Froobi a webshop for players which is worth it? I mean I am quite used to Amazon but I am cautious about the shops I do not know |
| 15:49:40 | GodEater | www.froobi.com - we trust them |
| 15:50:01 | delt | do they ship to Canada? |
| 15:50:16 | | Part LinusN |
| 15:50:27 | GodEater | no idea |
| 15:50:28 | JdGordon | pixelma: ok, is the info screen actually in the manual? |
| 15:50:31 | GodEater | go have a look! |
| 15:50:37 | delt | where are they located? |
| 15:51:11 | GodEater | USA I think |
| 15:51:16 | JdGordon | GodEater: if it loaded i wouldnt be asking :p |
| 15:51:19 | GodEater | they quote in USD |
| 15:51:43 | GodEater | JdGordon: the "go have a look" wasn't directed at you! |
| 15:51:45 | zaytsev | I have found ONE sansa in Russia :) Off to check this froobi out. |
| 15:52:21 | JdGordon | GodEater: hehe, sorry :p |
| 15:52:24 | GodEater | zaytsev: make sure you check to see if it says "Rockbox ready" against it |
| 15:52:31 | GodEater | otherwise it's not the right version of the player |
| 15:52:51 | delt | retailers actually tell that? |
| 15:53:03 | delt | oh yeah i see... cool :D |
| 15:53:23 | GodEater | delt: no, most retailers don't - froobi is an exception, hence why we like them |
| 15:55:05 | zaytsev | I wonder which one is better, c200 or e200. |
| 15:56:00 | zaytsev | OK, thanks everyone for the help! I will try to find someone in the States to bring the player to me... Look like it's the only option to get a nano-sized FLAC player. |
| 15:56:28 | delt | i like my ipod nano |
| 15:56:48 | delt | only thing is battery life.... i wouldn't mind it being a bit thicker but with a bigger battery |
| 15:57:02 | liiwi | e280 is pretty nice, except the microsd card does not stay in |
| 15:57:50 | * | JdGordon 's microsd has never fallen out |
| 15:58:12 | GodEater | mine hasn't either |
| 15:59:33 | BigBambi_ | nor mine |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:46 | liiwi | just bounces out if you touch it even a little, had hard time finding the tiny card couple times |
| 16:03:18 | lasser | my e280 hold its micro-card pretty nice, since yesterday ;-) 16GB for music...wow |
| 16:03:33 | liiwi | 8+8? |
| 16:03:42 | lasser | liiwi, yep |
| 16:04:06 | liiwi | nice, 8+4 has been pretty good so far |
| 16:04:40 | lasser | liiwi, my wifes and my daughters e200s hold them too... |
| 16:04:52 | lasser | perhaps your micro card is broken? |
| 16:05:00 | GodEater | or the slot is |
| 16:05:16 | liiwi | yup, possible |
| 16:05:21 | | Quit Schmogel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 16:07:24 | delt | what's the maximum capacity card you can put in a e280? |
| 16:07:36 | LambdaCalculus37 | Theoretically 32GB. |
| 16:07:49 | * | amiconn thinks it's theoretically 2TB |
| 16:07:57 | delt | awesome. theoretically. |
| 16:08:16 | amiconn | SDHC is *specified* up to 32GB, but that's not the technical limit |
| 16:08:31 | delt | ah i see |
| 16:08:46 | GodEater | hehe, 2TB on something the size of my fingernail. That would be teh awesome. |
| 16:09:01 | delt | what about the e250? |
| 16:09:04 | GodEater | same |
| 16:09:17 | delt | teh awesomeness |
| 16:09:27 | GodEater | it's the same for all our microsdhc capable targets |
| 16:09:56 | J-23 | hmm, there's a misspelling in Polsih Rockbox translation |
| 16:09:59 | J-23 | Polish* |
| 16:10:00 | | Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 16:10:02 | BigBambi_ | hahaha |
| 16:11:12 | GodEater | how ironic |
| 16:11:23 | delt | /topic <J-23> hmm, there's a misspelling in Polsih Rockbox translation |
| 16:11:33 | | Quit Seed (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:12:43 | J-23 | it's one-time contribution, so I don't put it on the tracker. http://wklej.org/txt/6283/ |
| 16:13:11 | * | GodEater doesn't understand people that do this |
| 16:14:05 | GodEater | if it doesn't get into the tracker, it's unlikely to make it into Rockbox J-23 |
| 16:14:29 | lasser | I have an issue with my e280 running rockbox r18561: the wiki says it has an PP5024, but the rockbox Hardware info in the debug menu shows an PP5022C. |
| 16:14:41 | delt | what does sdhc stand for? |
| 16:14:56 | | Join dataangel [0] (n=prophet@146.113.65.145) |
| 16:15:00 | lasser | delt, sd high capacity |
| 16:15:06 | delt | ah got it |
| 16:15:33 | lasser | Don't I have a e280? ;-) |
| 16:15:43 | thegeek | I think they are the same |
| 16:15:43 | delt | what's the battery life on those sansa's? |
| 16:16:00 | GodEater | lasser: the branding on the SoC doesn't match the internal id - it's a common PP thing. |
| 16:16:09 | liiwi | about 20h on my e280 |
| 16:16:17 | lasser | delt, batery bench was running for about 17 hours on mine |
| 16:16:20 | delt | with rockbox? |
| 16:16:26 | lasser | delt, yep |
| 16:16:37 | delt | what about factory firmware? |
| 16:16:44 | lasser | GodEater, ok, thx |
| 16:16:53 | delt | damn, that's good |
| 16:17:03 | lasser | delt, 16 hours with OF |
| 16:17:08 | delt | heh |
| 16:17:24 | lasser | same playlist of course... |
| 16:17:46 | delt | only thing is the stupid proprietary usb cable =( |
| 16:18:21 | delt | who the f¢£k designs these anyway?%?!? |
| 16:18:41 | lasser | delt, someone who wants to earn some more money... |
| 16:19:14 | delt | well, they lose some money because less ppl will buy them |
| 16:20:23 | delt | so, is there any decent sansa with a microSD slot and a NORMAL usb connector? |
| 16:20:41 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@h-74-0-180-178.snvacaid.covad.net) |
| 16:21:43 | GodEater | Nope |
| 16:21:47 | delt | or how hard would it be to pull out that connector and solder a standard one..... |
| 16:21:54 | B4gder | sansa != standard connectors |
| 16:22:09 | | Join Inverse [0] (n=InverseC@81.144.132.134) |
| 16:22:12 | delt | what about other brands? |
| 16:22:18 | LambdaCalculus37 | delt: Not happening unless you want to completely ruin your Sansa. |
| 16:22:34 | delt | ie. hard, right? |
| 16:22:36 | B4gder | some others have standard ones |
| 16:22:43 | delt | and a sd slot? |
| 16:22:52 | B4gder | you mean microsd I guess |
| 16:22:56 | delt | uh yeah sorry |
| 16:22:58 | B4gder | cowon d2 has standard usb and sd |
| 16:23:06 | B4gder | but no running rockbox yet |
| 16:23:13 | delt | :( |
| 16:24:17 | delt | if at least ipod's and sansa's had the same weird connector... |
| 16:24:21 | lasser | ok, next issue: When I view the buffering thread in rockbox debug menu it shows me the cpu freq with 30mhz when it's idle. Why not 24mhz? |
| 16:24:40 | delt | because it says "keep out" -) |
| 16:24:56 | B4gder | why 24? |
| 16:24:59 | B4gder | why not 18? |
| 16:25:01 | B4gder | or 6 |
| 16:25:12 | GodEater | the answer is "because" :) |
| 16:25:13 | B4gder | :-) |
| 16:25:38 | delt | isn't entering the "Debug (Keep out)" menu breaking the informal Rockbox EULA? |
| 16:25:57 | BigBambi_ | EULAs can go screw themselves |
| 16:26:10 | delt | (my thoughts exactly) |
| 16:26:19 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@dhcp-892b9a44.ucd.ie) |
| 16:26:30 | BigBambi_ | My point being we have nothing of the sort, informal or otherwise |
| 16:26:54 | delt | except gpl |
| 16:27:03 | lasser | B4gder, hm. Or perhaps "42"... :-) But if I set the cpu freq in the debug menu to 24mhz then it is shown... |
| 16:27:05 | BigBambi_ | That is nothing like a EULA |
| 16:27:10 | pixelma | JdGordon: there's a short description in main_menu/main.tex |
| 16:27:28 | pixelma | basically just naming what you see there |
| 16:28:13 | J-23 | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9416 |
| 16:28:15 | JdGordon | ah ok.. missed it when i went looking before |
| 16:28:50 | JdGordon | pixelma: where do the \opt's come from? |
| 16:28:59 | lasser | as 24mhz in the buffering thread. |
| 16:29:33 | lasser | and stays there until music starts playing... |
| 16:29:54 | pixelma | JdGordon: some are in the platform files and some are autamtically parsed from the features.txt... |
| 16:30:02 | pixelma | *automatically too |
| 16:30:14 | JdGordon | can I use "albumart" then? |
| 16:30:27 | pixelma | yep, should work |
| 16:30:50 | | Quit Inverse (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:33:07 | delt | what would really be awesome is be able to playlist stuff that gets handled by viewers/plugins (like mod/s3m/xm/it etc)< |
| 16:33:07 | | Part J-23 |
| 16:33:25 | | Join J-23 [0] (n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 16:33:31 | delt | boing? |
| 16:33:49 | | Join Inverse [0] (n=InverseC@81.144.132.134) |
| 16:33:55 | | Quit K3rl0u4rn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:34:05 | | Quit BigBambi_ ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 16:37:16 | lasser | delt, boing? what's that? |
| 16:37:21 | delt | ð J-23 has left #rockbox [n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl] () |
| 16:37:21 | delt | ð J-23 has joined #rockbox [n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl] |
| 16:37:52 | JdGordon | pixelma: nup... I cant get my head around the tex.... |
| 16:38:13 | BigBambi | delt: Let's stay on topic |
| 16:38:18 | delt | sry |
| 16:38:19 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 16:38:25 | | Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 16:38:36 | delt | but seriously, |
| 16:38:41 | | Join kugel [0] (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/kugel) |
| 16:38:43 | delt | <delt> what would really be awesome is be able to playlist stuff that gets handled by viewers/plugins (like mod/s3m/xm/it etc_ |
| 16:38:49 | delt | ) |
| 16:39:21 | | Join bmbl [0] (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/bmbl) |
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| 16:41:20 | delt | that with a few options in the mikmod plugin like "loop maximum times" etc... |
| 16:41:45 | | Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 16:43:14 | | Join martin` [0] (n=user@c-7b9ee355.68-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 16:43:41 | lasser | hm, no answer or no knowledge about this cpu freq thing? |
| 16:43:55 | martin` | When i try to use rockbox utility it tells me to redo my configuration, even though its not faulty. Any idea why? |
| 16:44:15 | delt | lasser: i think they put "keep out" because the cpu freqs are all screwed up :D |
| 16:44:43 | delt | jk |
| 16:46:08 | lasser | ok, have to go, bye |
| 16:46:18 | delt | cya |
| 16:46:21 | * | lasser has to go now, his daughter wants to play soccer for the next hours... |
| 16:46:27 | | Part lasser |
| 16:47:53 | delt | martin` what kind of player? |
| 16:48:00 | martin` | Gigabeat F60 |
| 16:48:29 | delt | no idea then, perhaps someone else can help |
| 16:48:52 | GodEater | bluebrother and domonoky are the RBUtil guys |
| 16:49:08 | GodEater | neither of whom appear to be here currently |
| 16:52:35 | delt | anyway, bbl |
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| 17:14:31 | martin` | hm |
| 17:14:49 | martin` | when i uninstalled rockbox and try to run my gigabeat, it says no system found on hdd |
| 17:14:58 | martin` | have i accidentally removed the original firmware? |
| 17:16:00 | | Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 17:16:49 | LambdaCalculus37 | Did you back up the FWIMG01.DAT file that was in the /GBSYSTEM folder? |
| 17:17:17 | martin` | i dont think so, no |
| 17:17:43 | LambdaCalculus37 | Do you have the Gigaroom software installed on your computer? |
| 17:17:51 | martin` | no |
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| 17:28:16 | martin` | how come that even though i have the file FWIMG01.DAT in gbsystem/fwimg/ the bootloader wont work? |
| 17:28:24 | | Quit Seed (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:30:00 | BigBambi | Because unless you have replaced the original one, that is the Rockbox version, not the Toshiba version |
| 17:30:25 | BigBambi | This is why the Rockbox installation instructions very clearly say to back up the firmware files before installing Rockbox |
| 17:31:01 | martin` | I had them backed up, but they are on another computer that i dont have access too atm |
| 17:31:31 | BigBambi | Well you need them.... |
| 17:31:43 | | Part delt_away |
| 17:31:53 | martin` | isnt there anyway i can ge the original gbsystem folder? |
| 17:32:15 | GodEater | only from your backup, or the gigaroom cd |
| 17:32:50 | BigBambi | We can't distribute them, we don't have the right |
| 17:33:04 | martin` | So what can i do? Nothing? |
| 17:33:06 | BigBambi | This is why we tell you to back up, so you have your copy |
| 17:33:35 | BigBambi | You can either get your backup, get them from the gigaroom CD |
| 17:34:19 | | Quit petur ("*plop*") |
| 17:34:47 | martin` | okay, thx |
| 17:34:59 | BigBambi | You need a copy of the original ones from an un-rockboxed gigabeat |
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| 18:54:03 | Dieterbe | funny, when i strace rbutilqt-v1.0.6-64bit, i see this: |
| 18:54:12 | Dieterbe | open("/home/jonas/local/lib/tls/x86_64/libpng12.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) |
| 18:54:23 | Dieterbe | he's looking for several files in /home/jonas :P |
| 18:54:26 | markun | :) |
| 18:54:39 | markun | Dieterbe: is that your own home dir? |
| 18:54:49 | Dieterbe | nope :) |
| 18:55:13 | Dieterbe | i guess one of the developers is called jonas |
| 18:55:58 | moos | rasher is |
| 18:56:10 | * | bertrik decides to try the latest sansa c200/e200 bootloaders from svn |
| 18:56:28 | rasher | Oops |
| 18:56:41 | | Join Nibbler [0] (n=Nibbler@e181094136.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:56:48 | Nibbler | hi ich |
| 18:56:56 | rasher | And I did indeed build the 64bit rbutil. |
| 18:57:10 | Dieterbe | but anyway, anyone familiar with 'zlib library errors' while installing rockbox.zip and rockbox-fonts.zip ? |
| 18:57:26 | bertrik | no, never seen those |
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| 18:57:50 | rasher | I'm guessing it's just trying that location before trying the system location - or it'd never have worked for anyone? |
| 18:58:06 | Dieterbe | indeed, doesn't look harmfull. funny though :) |
| 18:58:31 | | Quit homielowe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:12 | moos | bertrik: hi, IIRC the charging patch for sansas had to be commited after the freeze/release. What's about it? |
| 19:01:48 | * | Llorean thinks we need to take a good look at Multifont, Viewport Lists, Sansa Charging, and Software USB patches to see if we can get any of the committed far enough from 3.1 that they have time to get a good shakedown. |
| 19:02:03 | moos | indeed |
| 19:02:22 | moos | if we want a release in the next 3 months... :) |
| 19:04:27 | | Join {phoenix} [0] (n=dirk@p54B4581E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:06:26 | bertrik | moos, some bad news: I thought I had solved the "end-of-charge bit does not get set when starting at a high battery voltage" problem, but unfortunately I still see it |
| 19:06:48 | bertrik | I don't think it really bad for the battery though as the charge current is basically zero when this happens |
| 19:07:08 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:07:09 | | Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 19:08:02 | bertrik | also I thought I found a way to measure the absolute value of the charge current, but it turns out that I can only measure relative current, i.e. I can see if the charge current has dropped by 50% but I can't calculate the actual charge current |
| 19:08:03 | moos | aie, ok, let's hope it will be solved in the next 3 months :); But I don't know if this is really a commit stoper... |
| 19:09:08 | moos | I mean, now that we have a release build, we could consider the daily builds a bit more like experimental (or name it like you want) |
| 19:09:23 | BigBambi__ | multifont would be ace |
| 19:09:41 | moos | same for the software USB... |
| 19:09:57 | BigBambi__ | indeed - I already use that though so I'd sort of forgotten :) |
| 19:10:11 | moos | hehe :) |
| 19:10:26 | | Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@194.125.58.117) |
| 19:10:40 | moos | now we have release build for those that doesn't want daily builds... |
| 19:12:25 | Llorean | BigBambi__: One key problem about multifon, IIRC, is it's more or less implemented wrong |
| 19:12:34 | Llorean | It's one of those "done in a bad way, but it works" soluetions. |
| 19:12:44 | Llorean | Don't ask me for details, just going on what others have said about it. |
| 19:12:44 | BigBambi__ | Llorean: I can readily believe it |
| 19:13:03 | Llorean | So, committing it would be neat, but at the same time it'd instantly mean we eventually need someone to dig it out and replace it. |
| 19:13:14 | BigBambi__ | yeah, not ideal |
| 19:13:22 | moos | markun: what's about your font reworks? ;P |
| 19:13:24 | Llorean | So it's kinda "do we do what's good for the users, or what's good for the developers" |
| 19:13:52 | BigBambi__ | I'd go for the latter if it isn't done right |
| 19:13:55 | Llorean | Historically we've sided with devs, but what we need in this case is someone familiar enough with the associated workings to say how much (if any) extra work we're creating for later by including it. |
| 19:14:05 | bertrik | do what's good for the developers, in the long run it'll be better for the users too |
| 19:14:33 | moos | indeed |
| 19:14:33 | Llorean | I mean, if "dig it out and replace it" is the same difficulty as "write the new one from scratch" anyway, we may as well get it in if it's not buggy, and finalize the WPS syntax and let people start writting multifont WPSes for official builds |
| 19:15:38 | domonoky | rasher: it seems, that you didnt build rbutil (linux-64bit) statically.. :-) |
| 19:15:39 | BigBambi__ | I don't really have enough knowledge to comment :) |
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| 19:15:48 | rasher | domonoky: not at all? |
| 19:15:52 | rasher | man.. what a failure |
| 19:16:00 | domonoky | :-) |
| 19:16:21 | domonoky | anyway its time for a new rbutil release, so it can install 3.0 :-) |
| 19:17:01 | rasher | I'll try not to cock up this time, unless someone else does a 64bit version |
| 19:17:16 | | Quit bughunter2 ("bye") |
| 19:17:54 | bertrik | I'm not familiar with the multifont patch by the way, that was just my general opinion |
| 19:18:16 | Llorean | bertrik: And it's generally the right one IMHO |
| 19:18:30 | Llorean | But it's still good to look at things on a case-by-case to avoid blanket delays. :) |
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| 19:21:57 | n1s | ugh, building a logf enabled sim gives heaps of format warnings with int versus long |
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| 19:26:00 | Dieterbe | i have a new point for the faq: Rockbox says 'zlib library error' during the installation. What's this? −−> "Check the free space on your media player's disk. Usually this is caused by not having enough free space" |
| 19:26:47 | | Quit Darksair ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") |
| 19:26:48 | n1s | Dieterbe: sounds more like we should have size checking in rbutil to be able to display a nicer error |
| 19:27:04 | n1s | or maybe look at which error zlib returns... |
| 19:27:08 | Dieterbe | ah.. yes |
| 19:27:14 | Dieterbe | want me to file a report somewhere? |
| 19:27:59 | Dieterbe | on the tracker? |
| 19:28:01 | n1s | not sure it's somewhere between a usability bug and a feature request imho so... |
| 19:28:28 | n1s | maybe just pester domonoky and bluebrother :) |
| 19:29:14 | domonoky | :-) |
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| 19:33:25 | Dieterbe | there you go http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9417 :) have fun |
| 19:33:50 | domonoky | zlib does not return a nice error for this case.. |
| 19:34:24 | Dieterbe | okay, but rbutil can still check the amount of diskspace on the filesystem |
| 19:34:42 | Dieterbe | if it's less then a certain configured amount, give error to user :) |
| 19:35:06 | domonoky | if tell us how to do this on win/lin/mac :-) |
| 19:35:43 | n1s | do we have a policy on logf/DEBUGF output in the sim, should everything be off by standard or can output that's potentially useful to users be on by default? |
| 19:35:45 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@32.170.32.172) |
| 19:36:08 | Dieterbe | domonoky: i'm really bad in C and the likes. I can give you the function name in php if that would help :P |
| 19:36:14 | | Part hcs |
| 19:36:46 | domonoky | that doesnt help of course, we need a crossplatform C/C++ way to check the disk space |
| 19:37:32 | dionoea | good luck with "crossplatform" :) |
| 19:38:23 | | Join dreamtux [0] (n=asdfdjfh@149-190-246-201.adsl.terra.cl) |
| 19:38:52 | domonoky | :-) in this case "crossplatform" probaly means a function with #ifdefs.. (using statfs on linux, GetDiskFreeSpaceEx() on windows, and unknown on Mac) |
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| 19:40:18 | n1s | domonoky: nothing like that in qt? |
| 19:40:42 | domonoky | Dieterbe: the theme error is normal, the theme site is down at moment, we are waiting for a new one.. |
| 19:40:43 | bertrik | maybe just create a large file to check if there's enough free space :) ? |
| 19:40:53 | rasher | domonoky: well, php source would probably reveal a crossplatform way |
| 19:40:55 | domonoky | n1s: no, nothing for this in Qt |
| 19:42:07 | Dieterbe | domonoky: would it explain why rockbox hangs when bootstapping? i just copied the fonts manually now, but still same problem :/ |
| 19:42:13 | | Join Lambdumb [0] (n=Lambda@12-203-112-233.client.mchsi.com) |
| 19:43:03 | Dieterbe | diskfreespace() is the name in php |
| 19:43:22 | domonoky | Dieterbe: this "hang" must be another problem, you dont need themes and fonts, thats just extras... |
| 19:43:34 | Dieterbe | aha, ok |
| 19:44:22 | domonoky | Dieterbe: does the rockbox bootloader print anything on screen on startup ? |
| 19:45:15 | Dieterbe | no nothing, first apple logo, then the screen becomes entirely bright, and then after that all pixels are black. that's it |
| 19:45:18 | Dieterbe | Apple: 1st through 5.5th generation iPod, iPod Mini and 1st generation iPod Nano |
| 19:45:21 | Dieterbe | BTW |
| 19:45:24 | Dieterbe | (not the Shuffle, 2nd/3rd gen Nano, Classic or Touch) |
| 19:45:34 | Dieterbe | Mine is a 2nd generation with touch wheel |
| 19:46:46 | | Quit Lambdumb (Client Quit) |
| 19:46:50 | Dieterbe | the supported devices list is a bit confusing. all 2nd gen ipods are touchwheels. does this mean they are all not supported? |
| 19:46:51 | domonoky | if the bootloader doesnt show anything, perhaps this went wrong... also ipod 2gen is less tested i think, not much devs with this device available |
| 19:47:05 | amiconn | domonoky: Does the sim build & work properly on osx? |
| 19:47:56 | domonoky | amiconn: i dont know, i dont have osx at hand. (i use jdgordons mac remotely for building rbutil) |
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| 19:48:25 | amiconn | domonoky: If it does, the code to display the free diskspace is the same as on linux |
| 19:49:00 | domonoky | we have already code for getting diskspace in the sim ? |
| 19:49:09 | | Join dr_dimitri [0] (n=dim@p4FD0AA68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:49:31 | dr_dimitri | Hello together |
| 19:49:41 | amiconn | See uisimulator/common/io.c: fat_size() |
| 19:49:49 | amiconn | It's needed for the rockbox info screen |
| 19:50:10 | amiconn | Uses GetDiskFreeSpace() resp. statfs() |
| 19:50:19 | domonoky | amiconn: nice.. :-) |
| 19:51:50 | domonoky | (the code needs a but modification to work on the right disk, but should be a good starting point) :-) |
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| 19:52:11 | Dieterbe | oh and domonoky .. after a few minutes of 'hanging' it seems to reset: the apple bootloader runs an the same cycle starts again |
| 19:52:44 | | Join GodEater_ [0] (n=ge@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 19:52:53 | amiconn | Dieterbe: The 2nd Gen is supported. The bootloader is not supposed to show anything unless you press a button to see the messages |
| 19:53:04 | domonoky | Dieterbe: looks like the bootloader isnt really installed... maybe try ipodpatcher itself to install the bootloader again.. |
| 19:53:17 | Dieterbe | yep i'll try that |
| 19:53:25 | GodEater_ | hmm |
| 19:53:27 | amiconn | The display going all black after boot means the contrast setting is way off. Perhaps you can read something if looking from the top or bottom |
| 19:53:27 | GodEater_ | no swedes |
| 19:53:29 | domonoky | amiconn: but in case of error it should show something, right ? |
| 19:53:38 | amiconn | domonoky: yes |
| 19:53:45 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:54:18 | Dieterbe | amiconn: you were right |
| 19:54:40 | amiconn | It sounds like rockbox does indeed boot properly. After some minutes of inactivity, it tries to power off, but since that doesn't work on a 2nd Gen, just reboots |
| 19:54:57 | | Quit jeffdameth (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 19:54:59 | Dieterbe | when it's black i can't see shit, but when it was very bright for a few seconds i could see some sort of menu when looking carefully |
| 19:55:02 | amiconn | You can use rockbox on a 2nd Gen just fine, but you need to work around a few quirks atm |
| 19:55:27 | amiconn | First, disable idle poweroff so that rockbox doesn't try to reboot by itself |
| 19:56:16 | Dieterbe | great. i reset it and when it's very bright it first shows 'rockbox' big, and then i can see the top item in the menu. 'files' was it. yeay :) |
| 19:56:24 | amiconn | Then, if you actually want to "shut down", hold Play until rockbox triggers the reboot, then immediately flick the hold switch, so that the bootloader boots into the OF which will then suspend after a few minutes |
| 19:56:49 | amiconn | To go back to rockbox, disable the hold switch and then reset the ipod |
| 19:57:12 | amiconn | You can charge the battery in rockbox, even though rockbox doesn't indicate that it charges |
| 19:57:25 | amiconn | (charging itself is hardware controlled) |
| 19:57:37 | Bagder | GodEater: you called Sir? |
| 19:57:38 | Dieterbe | k, where do i disable the idle poweroff? |
| 19:58:12 | amiconn | Settings->General Settings->System->Idle Poweroff |
| 19:58:37 | Dieterbe | any dev living in belgium? i could lend my ipod to develop on/with, if you want |
| 19:59:06 | gevaerts | Dieterbe: several |
| 19:59:19 | | Quit Lambduh (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:59:20 | Dieterbe | any close to ghent? |
| 19:59:34 | gevaerts | yes, two actually :) (not me though) |
| 19:59:57 | Dieterbe | well, if they would like, they can lend mine |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:00:13 | * | gevaerts summons petur and mcuelenaere |
| 20:00:29 | amiconn | Seems the default contrast needs a bit of correction... |
| 20:00:33 | Dieterbe | btw amiconn that won't work. i can only see the menu for a few seconds, and it's so overbright i can't see shit anyway |
| 20:01:09 | gevaerts | Dieterbe: mybe you can edit the config file manually |
| 20:01:10 | amiconn | You can adjust the contrast... |
| 20:01:22 | amiconn | Yeah, that would also work |
| 20:01:31 | Dieterbe | i'll try to find a config file |
| 20:01:32 | * | amiconn would be interested in that contrast value |
| 20:01:55 | | Quit dreamtux () |
| 20:04:07 | dr_dimitri | Does rockbox play flac files? |
| 20:04:11 | martin` | yes |
| 20:04:16 | dr_dimitri | Thanks :-) |
| 20:04:24 | martin` | np :D |
| 20:04:31 | gevaerts | dr_dimitri: strictly speaking that depends on the player |
| 20:04:42 | gevaerts | The Archoses only handle mp3 and wav |
| 20:04:48 | dr_dimitri | gevaerts: ipod nano 1. gen |
| 20:04:58 | gevaerts | ok, that one has the full set |
| 20:04:59 | Dieterbe | hmm i don't find where i can change it.. grepping in .rockbox didn't help much either, or is it one of the binaries? -> http://rafb.net/p/hpXIQ989.html |
| 20:05:14 | * | Dieterbe going to eat. see you later |
| 20:05:31 | n1s | Dieterbe: config.cfg in .rockbox |
| 20:05:39 | dr_dimitri | gevaerts: Is it planned that rockbox will support the other nano player? |
| 20:05:40 | | Join lasser [0] (n=f@Wbfce.w.pppool.de) |
| 20:05:41 | Llorean | Dieterbe: If you haven't changed it before, there won't be a previous value in config.cfg to check for. |
| 20:06:03 | Llorean | Dieterbe: I *think* the manual describes what the line needs to look like when you add it. |
| 20:06:08 | gevaerts | dr_dimitri: no support is ever planned. If people work on it, it may happen |
| 20:06:14 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Connection timed out) |
| 20:06:33 | | Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.245.152) |
| 20:07:37 | dr_dimitri | gevaerts: Ok perhaps planned was the wrong word ;-) Has onyone started or will start this? |
| 20:08:03 | martin` | where can i obtain the contents of the gbsystem folder? |
| 20:08:11 | martin` | gigabeat room wont work in ubuntu |
| 20:08:34 | | Part nups |
| 20:09:12 | | Quit blithe_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:09:36 | Llorean | dr_dimitri: How can we know if someone else will decide they're interested in starting it? |
| 20:10:11 | ameyer | As I understand it, they're working on it but not getting anywhere |
| 20:10:26 | ameyer | damn firmware encryption |
| 20:10:27 | bertrik | yay, e200 bootloader works fine for me |
| 20:11:23 | martin` | does anyone have a gigabeat F? |
| 20:11:25 | amiconn | n1s, Dieterbe: config.cfg doesn't exist until at least one setting is different from the default |
| 20:11:35 | dr_dimitri | Llorean: Well perhaps you have been talink about hat here. I don't know. It was just a question not a demand (hope you did not understood me wrong as I'm not a native speaker) |
| 20:12:02 | | Join blithe [0] (n=blithe@li35-144.members.linode.com) |
| 20:12:14 | Bagder | dr_dimitri: we don't know of anyone working on it |
| 20:12:37 | LambdaCalculus37 | martin`: Why not try Toshiba's website? |
| 20:12:42 | dr_dimitri | Ok. thanks. |
| 20:13:37 | dr_dimitri | If someone would try that I could donate a ipod nano 4th gen to him. I like rockbox! |
| 20:14:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | dr_dimitri: I don't think that'll make any difference, but free DAPs are always a sweet deal. ;) |
| 20:14:26 | martin` | LambdaCalculus37: i dont find anything there |
| 20:14:28 | dr_dimitri | DAP? |
| 20:14:38 | martin` | and i cant install gigabeat room since i dont use windows |
| 20:14:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | Digital Audio Player. |
| 20:15:28 | martin` | does anyone know where i can obtain the gbsystem contents? |
| 20:15:55 | Llorean | martin`: You don't need them to use Rockbox. We have dummy ones that are sufficient. |
| 20:16:02 | gevaerts | markun: I'm meeting size limitations on the M6SP as well, but disabling useless stuff like FAT drivers helps a lot |
| 20:16:06 | dr_dimitri | LambdaCalculus37: Ah ok. Any preferences? Or do you prefere a paypal donation to the whole project? |
| 20:16:18 | martin` | Llorean: how do i do that? |
| 20:16:51 | gevaerts | dr_dimitri: I think it's extremely unlikely that the newer ipods will ever be supported |
| 20:16:51 | martin` | or how do i get them, to be exact |
| 20:17:06 | | Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:17:30 | Llorean | martin`: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatFXPort |
| 20:17:39 | pixelma | I thought I read martin`wanted to uninstall Rockbox... |
| 20:17:52 | * | Llorean found this by googling 'site:www.rockbox.org/twiki gbsystem' |
| 20:18:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: He does, but he doesn't have the original FWIMG01.DAT file from the Gigabeat. |
| 20:18:11 | dr_dimitri | gevaerts: Why? I've heared that the new ipods are using a kind of a "checksum" but the new libgpod supports at least the 3 gen. |
| 20:18:16 | | Join alski [0] (n=43c2b4dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-3bfa6d52d5f8faff) |
| 20:18:28 | gevaerts | dr_dimitri: encrypted firmware on all levels |
| 20:18:33 | Llorean | martin`: Those files won't work for uninstalling. |
| 20:18:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | dr_dimitri: That doesn't matter if libgpod supports newer iPods. Rockbox has nothing to do with libgpod. |
| 20:18:49 | Llorean | If you're trying to recover use of the Original Firmware, you more or less need the original files. |
| 20:19:16 | pixelma | LambdaCalculus37: that was more or less to Llorean... ;) |
| 20:20:02 | martin` | At the moment i have no firmware on my gigabeat |
| 20:20:02 | BigBambi__ | martin`: The answer remains the same as the one I gave you earlier |
| 20:20:06 | martin` | not rockbox nor the original one |
| 20:20:22 | | Quit homielowe_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:20:22 | * | gevaerts can't get the LCD driver ID on the sp |
| 20:20:42 | martin` | i want to install rockbox, but it doesnt seem to work without having the original firmware |
| 20:20:53 | martin` | and i cant get the original firmware, since gigabeat room doesnt work in ubuntu |
| 20:20:53 | BigBambi__ | No, it does not need it |
| 20:21:02 | martin` | How do i then install rockbox? |
| 20:21:06 | BigBambi__ | Use the dummy files Llorean pointed you at |
| 20:21:28 | dr_dimitri | Ok. Well perhaps I find a good 8GB nano 1 gen at ebay ;-) |
| 20:21:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | There are no 8GB 1st gen nanos. |
| 20:21:56 | dr_dimitri | Uff you're right. Only 4 |
| 20:22:10 | alski | Hello! I reformatted my 60Gb Photo macPod as described in the wiki, but it only created a 32 Mb FAT16 partition. I'm on OS 10.5 .Anyway to fix this? |
| 20:23:06 | | Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world") |
| 20:23:58 | Llorean | alski: Try it again, and follow the directions more carefully? |
| 20:25:18 | alski | I guess so |
| 20:25:51 | | Quit alski ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 20:25:52 | pixelma | martin`: I thought you still had the old bootloader on your gigabeat (the Rockbox FWIMG01.DAT)? |
| 20:27:28 | martin` | hm, yeah i have that one |
| 20:28:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | So why not just copy it back onto your Gigabeat!? |
| 20:28:21 | martin` | I have done that |
| 20:28:26 | martin` | but it doesnt boot |
| 20:28:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | Did you click the battery switch off and then on again? |
| 20:28:45 | martin` | yes |
| 20:29:09 | martin` | i have the rockbox FWIMG01.DAT in gbsystem/fwimg/ |
| 20:29:36 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:29:36 | martin` | is there anything i have missed? |
| 20:29:48 | pixelma | what about extracting the build zip? |
| 20:29:50 | BigBambi__ | The dummy files Llorean pointed you at? |
| 20:31:05 | martin` | i have put the dummy files in the same folder |
| 20:32:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | What's the system error that appears? |
| 20:32:55 | martin` | "No system on HDD" |
| 20:32:57 | | Quit barrywardell () |
| 20:33:41 | BigBambi__ | How are you accessing the hard drive to put files on? |
| 20:34:08 | martin` | via USB and a xterm |
| 20:34:17 | BigBambi__ | USB from where? |
| 20:34:27 | martin` | from my computer? |
| 20:34:31 | | Quit synergist (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:34:51 | BigBambi__ | If neither the Rockbox bootloader nor the OF are installed, I don't understand how you are accessing USB |
| 20:35:07 | BigBambi__ | What does it say on screen during the USB connection? |
| 20:35:37 | Llorean | BigBambi__: Gigabeat F have that USB mode when you unplug the disk. |
| 20:35:42 | martin` | its the original firmwares USB-connection icon, but i cant start the original firmware |
| 20:36:07 | BigBambi__ | Llorean: I didn't realised it worked without unplugging the disk |
| 20:36:19 | BigBambi__ | Live and learn! |
| 20:36:56 | LambdaCalculus37 | http://www.angelfire.com/bug2/gigabeat/ |
| 20:37:30 | Llorean | BigBambi__: You have to unplug the disk, then you can replug it to access the disk. |
| 20:37:36 | Llorean | If he's not unplugging the disk, who knows what's happening. |
| 20:37:54 | martin` | I can access the disk |
| 20:37:58 | martin` | and read/write from it |
| 20:38:08 | BigBambi__ | Llorean: That's what was confusing me - if he is unplugging the disk that would be a major bit of info to leave out :) |
| 20:38:39 | Llorean | martin`: Which FWIMG01.DAT is on the player right now? |
| 20:38:40 | Llorean | What size is it? |
| 20:39:29 | martin` | The rockbox one, its 64K |
| 20:39:48 | | Join Schmo [0] (n=Miranda@p3EE23608.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:39:49 | Llorean | Have you turned the battery switch off and on, while unplugged from wall power, since you copied that over? |
| 20:40:23 | martin` | yes |
| 20:41:01 | | Part dr_dimitri ("Verlassend") |
| 20:42:32 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-097-242-245.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:43:31 | | Quit goffa_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:43:34 | | Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) |
| 20:44:12 | martin` | gotta reboot |
| 20:44:17 | | Quit martin` (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:46:59 | gevaerts | markun: I don't get anything back from the LCD driver chip on the SP. Do you have ideas on what to try? |
| 20:47:15 | | Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-098-026-069-229.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 20:50:58 | | Join martin` [0] (n=user@c-7b9ee355.68-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:51:43 | | Quit Llorean ("Leaving.") |
| 20:51:45 | martin` | this is kind of annoying |
| 20:51:57 | | Join faemir [0] (n=quassel@88-106-209-242.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:52:02 | | Quit Schmogel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:52:06 | martin` | what do i need to do in order to install the bootloader? the .DAT-file is there, what else? |
| 20:53:48 | | Join kieko [0] (n=livingda@77-101-174-180.cable.ubr06.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:54:16 | kieko | hi |
| 20:54:26 | | Join dataangel [0] (n=prophet@146.113.65.145) |
| 20:54:35 | kieko | what does relase 3.0 give that is new? |
| 20:54:48 | gevaerts | kieko: new compared to what? |
| 20:54:58 | | Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) |
| 20:56:23 | kieko | gevaerts, pevious release? |
| 20:58:34 | * | gevaerts lets someone answer that who has been around since 2.5 |
| 20:59:35 | | Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:26 | | Join fyre^OS [0] (n=fyre@cpe-68-173-168-94.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:02:39 | martin` | for some reason i cant create folders on my gigabeat |
| 21:02:45 | martin` | i get read errors |
| 21:03:06 | | Part J-23 |
| 21:03:31 | | Quit lasser () |
| 21:04:36 | | Quit bmbl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:04:39 | | Quit BigBambi__ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:04:59 | | Join bmbl [0] (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/bmbl) |
| 21:05:10 | Dieterbe | okay guys i'm back :) |
| 21:07:08 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 21:07:25 | martin` | whats up with the rockbox homepage?? |
| 21:08:04 | * | ameyer guesses /. ran something on the 3.0 release or something |
| 21:08:12 | | Join krazykit [0] (n=kkit@198.202.202.20) |
| 21:08:45 | | Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 21:08:49 | ameyer | ...or noy |
| 21:08:51 | ameyer | *not |
| 21:11:07 | | Join bughunter2 [0] (n=Jelle@77.164.66.126) |
| 21:11:58 | Dieterbe | n1s / gevaerts / amiconn / domonoky : i just googled around a bit and found this file http://www.tbrn.net/rockbox/config.cfg . i just copy pasted the contrast value of 14 and rebooted the ipod. this seems to be a pretty good value |
| 21:12:35 | Dieterbe | when i press a button the screen lights up very clearly, and after that, the menu has a normal, good contrast ratio, just perfect ;) |
| 21:13:25 | Nico_P | the linuxfr release I posted got an interesting (IMHO) piece of feedback: http://pastebin.com/m4a2cf1c7 |
| 21:13:42 | Nico_P | the translation is google with a few touchups |
| 21:13:58 | | Quit stoffel_ ("leaving") |
| 21:13:58 | | Join shotofadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds) |
| 21:14:11 | * | gevaerts wants to know why this isn't meant to be constructive for non french speakers |
| 21:14:42 | Nico_P | hehe... he posted it in French |
| 21:15:06 | Nico_P | I'll probably write an answer after I get supper |
| 21:15:10 | gevaerts | I'm reading it in French as well |
| 21:15:29 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@32.170.45.7) |
| 21:15:55 | Nico_P | then you're a French-speaking developer :) |
| 21:16:22 | gevaerts | I'm a French-reading developer right now :) |
| 21:16:59 | gevaerts | But you're right, there are some good points there (and also one or two less good ones. What's wrong with decibels?) |
| 21:17:20 | | Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:17:25 | bluebrother | hmm. I don't get his critics, at least not completely. What's wrong with customizability? |
| 21:17:37 | | Quit kieko ("GeronimoH11111111111111111") |
| 21:17:51 | bluebrother | and why "a default theme for each model"? We do have a default theme. |
| 21:18:01 | Nico_P | he'd like theme preview and simpler color selection |
| 21:18:15 | Nico_P | I didn't really get the default theme part either |
| 21:18:17 | gevaerts | bluebrother: that's one of the less good points I think |
| 21:19:00 | bluebrother | though I like the idea of having some settings presets. But I talked about that before too −− have rbutil write some settings based on the users favourite usage pattern. |
| 21:19:58 | bluebrother | well, this "to become less eliteist" is kinda funny. Who says we are elite, and who says we want to be come less "eliteist"? |
| 21:20:29 | bluebrother | I think he missed the fun part on the developers side ;-) |
| 21:21:27 | Nico_P | well of course, since he's on the user side ;) |
| 21:21:41 | gevaerts | I somewhat agree with his games/apps point. Maybe we need to trim more for the releases |
| 21:22:12 | * | gevaerts also wants to know where he found tetris1d. Rockbox doesn't have any game named like that |
| 21:22:26 | Nico_P | how's it called? |
| 21:22:39 | gevaerts | We do have rockblox1d |
| 21:22:52 | Nico_P | :) |
| 21:23:37 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:24:16 | | Join Venus_Mars [0] (n=nithin@59.162.23.221) |
| 21:24:42 | bluebrother | and that game does have its reason :D |
| 21:24:55 | bluebrother | who says games have to be useful? |
| 21:24:56 | BigBambi | I think he has somewhat missed the point - it is somewhat complicated because those that develop it want to be able to control everything - unlock the hardware |
| 21:25:12 | BigBambi | A better UI would of course be great, but not at the expense of customisability |
| 21:25:24 | bluebrother | unlocking the hardware *is* one of the main reasons for Rockbox, isn't it? |
| 21:25:25 | | Join beta2k [0] (n=beta@d150-126-240.home.cgocable.net) |
| 21:25:43 | BigBambi | And I mean better as in better is always possible, not that it is bad at the moment |
| 21:25:44 | gevaerts | Yes. A lot of us are in this to have fun and to have players do what we want |
| 21:25:46 | Llorean | Some people just wanted the limited UI they originally had, with a couple tweaks, and more codecs/games/etc. |
| 21:25:47 | BigBambi | bluebrother: Exactly |
| 21:25:55 | bluebrother | and what's a "better" gui? Who tells what better means? I really like the current UI. |
| 21:26:08 | Llorean | But everyone who's ever proposed RockboxLite has followed up with "But someone else should make it for me" |
| 21:26:09 | bluebrother | _if_ you got used to it all those OF interfaces seem awkward. |
| 21:26:10 | BigBambi | Me too, I only meant better as in everything can always be better |
| 21:26:56 | BigBambi | The menu structure can be a little confusing at times - I've used Rockbox for over 3 years now and I still occasionally have to search for something |
| 21:27:00 | gevaerts | How hard would it be to change the settings system to hide settings on demand? |
| 21:27:30 | bluebrother | well, reorganizing the menu has been discussed before. It's just nobody did anything about it (I wanted to give it a try, but there's always this time thingy ...) |
| 21:27:46 | BigBambi | bluebrother: Oh certainly |
| 21:28:25 | BigBambi | But ultimately I come back to he has missed the point - Rockbox is about control and customisability for me. Making it "user friendly" in the way he suggests reduces the amount of control you have and dumbs down rockbox, removing one of the main advantages to it |
| 21:28:29 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: The menu now is at least much better than the previous menu Rockbox had (prior to the root menu). |
| 21:28:49 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: I don't really agree - for me it is almost identical |
| 21:28:52 | bluebrother | besides, I also like KDE better than gnome for ... the customizability |
| 21:29:05 | bluebrother | LambdaCalculus37: we don't have a root menu ;-) |
| 21:29:25 | Llorean | I think the main menu just adds one more level of stuff I have to go through before I can actually get to the software. |
| 21:29:31 | bluebrother | and while I have no objections to the current main menu I still don't see a reason. |
| 21:29:34 | Llorean | But it does help users. |
| 21:29:39 | BigBambi | LambdaCalculus37: I don't mind the main menu and agree overall it is better, but personally I'm not bothered. I start in the file browser and all the main menu gives me is an addition abutton click when I press menu |
| 21:30:03 | BigBambi | *agree overall it is better for users |
| 21:30:09 | * | Nico_P likes the main menu a lot |
| 21:30:41 | * | bluebrother thinks it's strange left in the browser goes to the main menu |
| 21:30:50 | LambdaCalculus37 | bluebrother: Sorry... main menu. :P (Where did I get "root menu" from!?) |
| 21:31:19 | * | gevaerts wonders if some users would like a system where the settings menu basically is hidden, and there is a file browser that lets you select nicely named cfg files |
| 21:31:19 | BigBambi | The old name |
| 21:31:37 | LambdaCalculus37 | BigBambi: Ahh, never mind. :P |
| 21:32:08 | Dieterbe | is this patch implemented in 3.0 ? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8745 Aka: is the weel supposed to work on both 1G and 2G ipods? |
| 21:32:08 | bluebrother | it's root_menu.c IIRC. But we agreed that we shouldn't consider it a main menu as it would need to behave slightly different then |
| 21:32:16 | Llorean | gevaerts: You could name .cfg files for every individual setting value and create a completely custom menu system |
| 21:32:25 | bluebrother | and back that time I was working on the manual, so the term was kinda important to me ;-) |
| 21:32:33 | Llorean | The biggest flaw is disk spinups for every setting change, and no graphical menus for the few that have 'em. =P |
| 21:32:47 | bluebrother | Llorean: use a flash based player ;-) |
| 21:32:54 | Llorean | Hahaha |
| 21:33:04 | bluebrother | flash spinup? |
| 21:33:25 | bluebrother | the CF mod for the mini is great. No more spindowns, the "disc" is much faster and needs less power |
| 21:33:48 | gevaerts | Llorean: that gets complicated. I was more thinking about maybe 5 or 10 files. |
| 21:33:51 | n1s | I think a theme preview would be nice on larger displays but how often do you switch themes anyway? |
| 21:34:11 | Llorean | gevaerts: Think of the binsize decrease though, we could remove all settings menus! :-P |
| 21:34:12 | gevaerts | Hiding the settings menu could be a setting, written by rbutil if people want that |
| 21:34:27 | bluebrother | how do you want to preview themes anyway? Plus, on hdd players this would mean a disc spinup, something we usually don't want |
| 21:34:40 | gevaerts | Llorean: "files/settings/volume/-1, files/settings/volume/-2, ..." ? |
| 21:34:51 | XavierGr | is rockbox.org down, or is it only me? |
| 21:35:15 | n1s | XavierGr: seems down or /.'ed or something |
| 21:35:19 | Llorean | gevaerts: Indeed. Generated by the build system! |
| 21:35:34 | gevaerts | Llorean: you're mad! |
| 21:36:07 | Llorean | gevaerts: Actually, Bluebrother did mention that it wouldn't have the same penalties on flash. I wonder how much could be saved by cutting out the menus, for example for very, very lowmem targets. |
| 21:36:14 | n1s | bluebrother: smallish screenshot displayed when moving the selector to a theme, yeah, but you wpuld have to spin the disk to try the theme too |
| 21:36:36 | gevaerts | Actually, I'd go for marking each setting as "essential" or "advanced", and allowing to hide advanced settings. They would still be settable through cfg files when hidden |
| 21:36:51 | bluebrother | n1s: this would only work nicely on color targets |
| 21:37:09 | * | gevaerts needs to dive into the settings code some day |
| 21:37:11 | Nico_P | I like the theme preview idea too |
| 21:37:24 | pixelma | I thought there was once an agreement about not hiding setting? Though things can change... |
| 21:37:33 | n1s | bluebrother: yes, i agree but i don't see why we can have that feature only on those targets where it makes sense |
| 21:37:45 | bluebrother | isn't the main issue with the theme that you simply don't see the wps until you play something? |
| 21:38:27 | bluebrother | pixelma: well, if you kinda have a more simplistic view I wouldn't call that hiding −− given that there's an entry to show all settings |
| 21:38:32 | pixelma | this reminds me... I think "Recent bookmarks" is still disabled by default, right? |
| 21:38:44 | Llorean | I believe so |
| 21:38:48 | bluebrother | me too |
| 21:38:52 | | Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 21:39:04 | | Quit Venus_Mars ("Leaving.") |
| 21:39:10 | | Quit beta2k_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:39:10 | bluebrother | and that's kinda the only dynamic entry in the main menu ... which I kinda dislike |
| 21:39:33 | * | Zagor pops his head in and cheers the release |
| 21:39:45 | | Quit bughunter2 ("bye") |
| 21:39:49 | | Quit reacocard (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:40:23 | gevaerts | Zagor: we're busy working on the next one! |
| 21:40:38 | Zagor | that's the spirit! |
| 21:40:56 | Nico_P | n1s, bluebrother: the theme settings menu could spin the disk in advance for HD targets. most of the time a theme will be loaded anyway |
| 21:40:58 | gevaerts | Actually, we're busy arguing about it :) |
| 21:41:21 | pixelma | I don't like this item being dynamic either but at least it should be enabled |
| 21:41:42 | Zagor | this is my last week of paternity leave, so from mid-next week I'll be around a bit more to aid in the arguing :-) |
| 21:41:58 | amiconn | Nico_P: That would be a waste if I only want to change e.g. colours |
| 21:42:27 | scorche|sh | Zagor: did Bagder talk to you regarding GSoC monies? |
| 21:42:29 | Nico_P | amiconn: I meant the menu where there is actually a list of themes |
| 21:42:35 | Nico_P | "browse themes" IIRC |
| 21:42:40 | Zagor | scorche|sh: no, not yet |
| 21:42:46 | n1s | compared to most daps on the market today we seriously lack in the bling department, not that i care much personally but it never hurt anyone to look good :) |
| 21:42:49 | amiconn | This is a file browser, and hence spins up the disk anyway |
| 21:42:57 | amiconn | (at least if you have dircache disabled) |
| 21:43:04 | Nico_P | amiconn: not with dircache enabled |
| 21:43:27 | Nico_P | what I mean is that it could keep it spun up in order to speedup preview loading |
| 21:43:38 | scorche|sh | Zagor: do you have access to the mentor's list? |
| 21:43:41 | Llorean | Could we enabled a limited dircache _always_ for "Browse Plugins" "Browse Themes" etc? |
| 21:43:41 | amiconn | But what's the point of dircache if you spin up the disk even if no file is loaded? It would waste battery |
| 21:43:43 | Nico_P | and the subsequent theme selection too |
| 21:44:02 | Zagor | scorche|sh: nope. or at least not that I know of. |
| 21:44:04 | Llorean | To the user they seem like menus, and delays for spinup entering them could confuse people or come back as bug reports. |
| 21:44:07 | amiconn | Llorean: Dircache is a global thing, not a browser thing |
| 21:44:13 | Nico_P | amiconn: the point of dircache is for the "real" file browser IMHO |
| 21:44:13 | Llorean | amiconn: As it stands now. |
| 21:44:24 | Llorean | We could cache those lists separately though. |
| 21:44:34 | amiconn | Llorean: And the way it is implemented I don't see how this could be changed in a sane way |
| 21:44:34 | scorche|sh | Zagor: hrm...i shall mail you, i guess...bjorn at haxx? |
| 21:44:42 | | Join bughunter2 [0] (n=Jelle@77.164.66.126) |
| 21:44:44 | Zagor | scorche|sh: yup |
| 21:44:49 | amiconn | Dircache is at the filesystem level |
| 21:45:01 | Llorean | amiconn: I don't mean necessarily using dircache itself. |
| 21:45:07 | Llorean | We could have a separate, very simple caching for these lists. |
| 21:45:16 | Llorean | If dircache is disabled. |
| 21:45:30 | amiconn | The browser caches the last used dir |
| 21:45:38 | n1s | Or we could do like the beast OF and always spin the disk while in menus! :P |
| 21:45:48 | gevaerts | You need to be careful with that. People can manipulate those files from the file browser |
| 21:45:52 | amiconn | There was that idea to extend this into an lru cache, caching as many dirs as fit there |
| 21:46:03 | | Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-FOUR-NINETY-FOUR.MIT.EDU) |
| 21:46:24 | amiconn | Llorean, n1s: I think what we need is some visual (and optionally audible?) indication that something happens |
| 21:46:44 | amiconn | The gui once was much better in that respect, and has gotten worse over time |
| 21:46:45 | Nico_P | indeed. a throbber would be nice :) |
| 21:47:08 | n1s | yes, instant feedback is nice |
| 21:47:37 | amiconn | Those devs who added all that fancy stuff obviously didn't pay much attention on the order in which things happen |
| 21:47:52 | | Quit beta2k (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:48:06 | amiconn | Even a status bar update every now and then would help already |
| 21:48:31 | amiconn | Right now, the status bar sometimes becomes completely invisible until after a spinup... |
| 21:48:52 | Nico_P | one thing I also find annoying is the flaky repaint when I leave the WPS context menu/playlist |
| 21:49:08 | amiconn | (fancy stuff == {icons, colours, headlines...}) |
| 21:49:15 | Nico_P | of course I'm probably partly responsible for it |
| 21:49:51 | amiconn | Llorean: Btw, that lru idea would even work on archos |
| 21:49:58 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 21:50:23 | amiconn | We have that 'max files in dir' limit, which defines the browser directory list cache size |
| 21:51:09 | amiconn | But most dirs don't get even near that limit, even with my fairly low setting. The rest of the buffer is wasted right now |
| 21:51:26 | Llorean | lru might work |
| 21:51:39 | amiconn | yep |
| 21:51:48 | Llorean | It'd at least improve tihngs |
| 21:51:55 | amiconn | Thing is, we even have an lru implementation already (for font caching) |
| 21:52:08 | Llorean | Or at least, it shouldn't realistically make things any worse. |
| 21:52:11 | amiconn | That lru cache can also be preloaded |
| 21:52:28 | pixelma | Nico_P: and vice versa - if I leave my WPS the menu redraws a bit quicker than the statusbar and I still see a part of my WPS there. Looks odd |
| 21:52:29 | | Quit dataangel (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 21:52:41 | amiconn | So we could preload it with plugins, themes etc |
| 21:53:14 | amiconn | (as much as fits) |
| 21:54:37 | amiconn | But I'd really like to see the existing gui bugs fixed before that idea is going to be implemented. There's a lot of those... |
| 21:54:52 | Hillshum | rockbox.org works but is quite slow |
| 21:54:56 | n1s | amiconn: then we could allow that to go _really_ high and there'd be no need for a separate dircache |
| 21:54:56 | Hillshum | for me |
| 21:55:13 | | Join beta2k [0] (n=beta@d150-126-240.home.cgocable.net) |
| 21:56:18 | bluebrother | Llorean: I don't see a point in caching "special" folders separately. I'd rather have some predefined configurations (like "average ipod user") that get preinstalled by rbutil and have them dircache enabled |
| 21:56:46 | amiconn | Enabling dircache by default is still unsafe |
| 21:57:08 | amiconn | It pukes if there are too many files + folders |
| 21:57:13 | bluebrother | well, that would be done by a separate config file. Most users will immediately enable it ... |
| 21:57:18 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@77.20.73.176) |
| 21:57:27 | DerPapst | "I think for example tetris1d (totally useless, I let you try)" wth?! |
| 21:57:31 | bluebrother | except maybe for the guys only using the database and loading that to RAM |
| 21:57:35 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 21:57:41 | amiconn | That's another thing that needs fixing |
| 21:57:55 | Llorean | bluebrother: I did suggest dircache should be enabled for the release version. |
| 21:57:56 | bluebrother | database loaded to RAM? |
| 21:58:43 | bluebrother | well, if there are serious issues it makes sense to not have it enabled. Never had that much folders on my player |
| 21:58:45 | | Quit kokoon () |
| 21:59:14 | * | gevaerts looks into apps/menus/ and thinks that the menus indeed are inconsistent |
| 21:59:47 | amiconn | I once was quite close to the limit. Initial scan took a minute without music playing, and with music, about 5 minutes or so (on iriver H180) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:11 | Llorean | bluebrother: If it fails, all you get is the normal behaviour as if dircache weren't enabled. |
| 22:01:10 | * | gevaerts starts to suspect that the settings menu actually only exists in the builds. There's no trace of it in the source |
| 22:02:20 | amiconn | Llorean: Nope. You'll get the initial scan *in the foreground* on every boot, iirc |
| 22:02:54 | amiconn | And since reason for breakage is that there are too many files, that initial scan will take quite long |
| 22:03:00 | Llorean | amiconn: So a temporary fix would be if there wasn't enough room, to disable dircache and give notice. |
| 22:03:28 | Llorean | So after the first attempt fails, it doesn't automatically re-attempt. This would allow more "safely" enabling it by default for users. |
| 22:04:36 | | Quit krazykit ("later") |
| 22:05:41 | bluebrother | Llorean: I can already hear the bug reports: Rockbox newly installed, it starts up and gives me an error! |
| 22:06:14 | | Join yoo [0] (n=ich@86.56.33.243) |
| 22:08:33 | Llorean | bluebrother: "Warning: Too many files for Dircache. See manual" on first boot only shouldn't be too bad. |
| 22:08:35 | | Quit BigBambi (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:09:36 | | Join kronflux [0] (n=kronflux@hlfxns0161w-142177028006.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net) |
| 22:10:05 | n1s | We are pretty bad at displaying useful errors in general... |
| 22:11:02 | Zagor | what's wrong with "error -11" ? ;) |
| 22:11:27 | scorche|sh | we need to convert 11 to hex first |
| 22:11:42 | bluebrother | error -0x0b? |
| 22:11:55 | * | bluebrother has never seen negative hex values |
| 22:12:19 | * | kronflux also has not. |
| 22:12:24 | Zagor | actually, an error decoder (error to call trace) is something I'm contemplating as my next project |
| 22:12:31 | | Join beta2k_ [0] (n=beta@d150-126-240.home.cgocable.net) |
| 22:13:13 | bluebrother | I also never understood why some people write stuff like foo = 0x1234u. That's kinda superfluous IMO |
| 22:13:33 | gevaerts | Not always |
| 22:14:11 | bluebrother | in which cases not? |
| 22:14:36 | gevaerts | What does the statusbar setting have to do with CONFIG_TUNER? |
| 22:14:53 | bluebrother | it does make sense if 0x1234 has to be treated as ul. But as unsigned int? |
| 22:15:22 | gevaerts | bluebrother: not in straight assignments, but in #defines and combined with e.g. strict typechecking MIN/MAX macros, you need it |
| 22:17:01 | bluebrother | well, #defines is a different story. But I've seen that in straight assignments and never understood the sense of it |
| 22:17:03 | pixelma | gevaerts: maybe this is for the radio screen status bar (it's slightly different with the note) |
| 22:17:07 | amiconn | An int is signed unless specified otherwise |
| 22:17:28 | | Quit beta2k (Connection timed out) |
| 22:17:29 | gevaerts | Can someone who understands settings have a look at settings.c lines 547 to 549? |
| 22:17:59 | gevaerts | I don't understand those at all |
| 22:18:23 | gevaerts | ah, wait |
| 22:18:30 | * | DerPapst waits |
| 22:19:13 | * | gevaerts now understands those lines, but he thinks they're a dirty hack |
| 22:20:53 | | Quit bluebrother (Nick collision from services.) |
| 22:20:58 | | Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) |
| 22:21:20 | bluebrother | amiconn: how does the compiler behave if you have unsigned int foo = 0x1234? Isn't the hex value implicitly unsigned? |
| 22:21:35 | amiconn | yes |
| 22:22:15 | bluebrother | that's what I meant −− does writing 0x1234u to make it explicitly unsigned sense at all? |
| 22:22:31 | amiconn | But in some situations the compiler will spit a warning if you leave out the u |
| 22:22:40 | amiconn | "Comparison between signed and unsigned" |
| 22:22:58 | bluebrother | even if you use a hex value? Interesting. |
| 22:23:10 | amiconn | No, but if you use it indirectly |
| 22:23:37 | amiconn | ...as gevaerts said, in type-checking MIN() / MAX() macros, you'd use typeof() |
| 22:23:49 | amiconn | And typeof(0x1234) is signed int |
| 22:23:58 | | Quit blithe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:25:13 | | Join blithe [0] (n=blithe@li35-144.members.linode.com) |
| 22:27:58 | | Join lfaraone [0] (n=LukeFara@wikipedia/firefoxman) |
| 22:28:23 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@195.167.65.109) |
| 22:30:24 | lfaraone | Are there any plans to develop rockbox-as-an-application on jailbroken iPhones or iPod touches? |
| 22:31:12 | scorche|sh | we dont make plans...people come forward witht he capability, time, and the device itself to make ports happen |
| 22:31:56 | lfaraone | scorche|sh: Ok, would I be able to port it if I knew only C? |
| 22:32:58 | * | gevaerts thinks that settings_apply() would use less RAM if struct settings_list had an apply callback |
| 22:35:16 | scorche|sh | lfaraone: well, you would also need to know about writing applications for iPhones, a bit about SDL perhaps and you can learn about the rockbox infrastructure |
| 22:35:55 | lfaraone | scorche|sh: Basically it's a huge amount of work. |
| 22:35:58 | lfaraone | scorche|sh: right? |
| 22:36:11 | DerPapst | lfaraone: pretty much ;) |
| 22:36:12 | Hillshum | Objective C to be specific |
| 22:36:20 | scorche|sh | a regular port, perhaps, but rockbox-as-an-application isnt *that* much |
| 22:36:24 | scorche|sh | Hillshum: eh? |
| 22:36:28 | DerPapst | pure C |
| 22:36:36 | Hillshum | really? |
| 22:36:39 | DerPapst | jubb |
| 22:37:02 | Bagder | pure C with some odd gcc extensions in use! ;-) |
| 22:37:02 | Hillshum | ahh |
| 22:37:06 | gevaerts | I mean, it calls a specific function for (nearly) every setting. If you can just loop over settings[] and call all non-null functions with their associated values, you only need one more pointer in struct settings_list |
| 22:37:21 | scorche|sh | Hillshum: what was objective C supposed to describe?...the rockbox source code? |
| 22:37:26 | | Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 22:37:33 | Hillshum | iphone specific |
| 22:37:44 | Bagder | gevaerts: prove it! ;-P |
| 22:37:45 | gevaerts | And if nearly all settings have an apply function, that's bound to be cheaper than calling them all in a row |
| 22:37:59 | Hillshum | i guess just the sdk...the Rb dosn't need |
| 22:38:31 | gevaerts | Bagder: if nobody has a good argument for why I'm wrong, I think I'll have a go :) |
| 22:38:42 | gevaerts | Probably not today though |
| 22:38:46 | * | DerPapst expects a patch in about 24 hours. |
| 22:39:43 | Zagor | gevaerts: an argument against is that it makes the code less straight-forward. but since we're talking against setttings.c, that argument is rather obsolete |
| 22:40:10 | | Part yoo ("Verlassend") |
| 22:41:04 | gevaerts | Zagor: If it makes it less straight-forward (which I don't think), it won't be much, and if it lets us save lots of RAM, I think it's worth it |
| 22:41:11 | lfaraone | Hillshum: It won't be allowed under the SDK |
| 22:41:22 | lfaraone | Hillshum: because it duplicates itunes functionality. |
| 22:41:58 | lfaraone | Hillshum: Recently, a person created an app to download podcsts one had subscribed to. That's 100x less threatening to apple's model. |
| 22:42:10 | lfaraone | Hillshum: and it was rejected. |
| 22:42:36 | Zagor | gevaerts: settings.c favors space over readability |
| 22:42:49 | gevaerts | :) |
| 22:43:06 | gevaerts | I don't think it's the most space efficient though |
| 22:43:16 | Zagor | so I doubt you'll be able to make much addition damage :) |
| 22:43:47 | | Quit Strife89 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:43:55 | | Part lfaraone ("thanks for all the fish") |
| 22:44:14 | gevaerts | We want the smallest possible code in the most maintainable way, and I think settings reaches neither of those. I'll have a go at proving that |
| 22:44:37 | Zagor | no objections from me |
| 22:44:49 | | Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:45:28 | bluebrother | domonoky: any objections against rbutil m1.0.7 "3.0 ready"? |
| 22:45:58 | domonoky | go for it :-) |
| 22:46:02 | gevaerts | bluebrother: when I tried last night the rockbox.zip install worked, but the full install didn't |
| 22:46:26 | bluebrother | gevaerts: that's kinda strange −− full install will always get a bleeding edge build |
| 22:46:41 | * | gevaerts tries again |
| 22:47:08 | | Join reacocard [0] (n=reacocar@WL-433.CINE.HMC.Edu) |
| 22:48:16 | DerPapst | Zagor: can you look at http://pastebin.com/m54440bbb (irc reader patch) Since i've never did any perl stuff before that part might be not so good but it improves the reader a lot (tested). |
| 22:49:26 | | Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.245.152) |
| 22:49:34 | Zagor | DerPapst: looking |
| 22:49:42 | DerPapst | Zagor: thanks :) |
| 22:49:57 | | Quit Schmo ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 22:50:36 | amiconn | gevaerts: Only the minority of settings functions has an apply function |
| 22:50:38 | | Quit tvelocity (Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:51:07 | gevaerts | amiconn: ok, in that case it's probably not a win. I'll still have a look though |
| 22:51:48 | amiconn | Those affecting apps code don't need it, 'cause apps code is allowed to read global_settings directly. Settings affecting firmware code need apply functions |
| 22:53:30 | Zagor | DerPapst: i'm not so sure enabling joins per default is such a great idea. it adds a lot of noise. |
| 22:54:15 | DerPapst | Zagor: ok. but it should be hidden with js and not with CSS |
| 22:54:51 | DerPapst | since this way you'd overwrite the user settings |
| 22:56:52 | * | amiconn would be in favour of that default |
| 22:57:18 | * | Bagder added manuals to the release page |
| 22:57:24 | amiconn | But my main complaint is that the log reader doesn't keep settings (or at least this setting) |
| 22:57:45 | Nico_P | re rockbox as an app on the iphone, it might not be that hard |
| 22:57:49 | DerPapst | amiconn: if this patch is applied it should keep its settings |
| 22:57:57 | Zagor | amiconn: that's due to my crappy javascript. |
| 22:58:03 | Nico_P | ... at least for jailbroken devices |
| 22:58:13 | | Quit Rondom (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:58:20 | Nico_P | Bagder: do you know why rockbox.org is slow? |
| 22:58:33 | Bagder | no... |
| 22:58:44 | Nico_P | high load maybe? :) |
| 22:58:50 | Bagder | 150 apache processes! |
| 22:59:02 | Nico_P | that's a lot? |
| 22:59:04 | Zagor | yikes |
| 22:59:08 | DerPapst | everyone wanting the 3.0 release ;) |
| 22:59:09 | Bagder | our max i believe |
| 22:59:32 | Bagder | that's a lot |
| 22:59:37 | Bagder | we use to have around 40-45 |
| 22:59:38 | Nico_P | hehe, nice :) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:09 | Nico_P | I hope we can get 3.0-enabled rbutil bins soon |
| 23:00:17 | gevaerts | bluebrother: it tries build.rockbox.org/dist/build-h10_5gbmtp/rockbox.zip, which fails |
| 23:00:52 | * | domonoky wonders if genlang.cgi works correctly with the revision the 3.0. release has in the rockbox-info.txt :-) |
| 23:01:38 | gevaerts | bluebrother: the working download gets /dist/build-h10_5gb/rockbox.zip instead |
| 23:02:04 | gevaerts | Also, shouldn't the full install on the first tab install the release? |
| 23:02:10 | bluebrother | gevaerts: just noticed that ... looks like nobody noticed the mtp vs. ums issue :( |
| 23:02:19 | Bagder | http://lifehacker.com/5054229/rockbox-30-supercharges-your-mp3-player |
| 23:02:23 | Bagder | http://ostatic.com/173446-blog/rockbox-3-0-released-quietly |
| 23:02:43 | * | Nico_P was reading those just now |
| 23:02:54 | bluebrother | gevaerts: I agree partly. As you are supposed to use it for upgrading too it does make sense to install the latest build |
| 23:02:55 | Bagder | plenty referers from them atm |
| 23:03:40 | gevaerts | bluebrother: maybe it just needs to offer the same choice |
| 23:03:42 | bluebrother | ideally the user has to select that. Also, not having an update button on the first tab is a bit weird too |
| 23:04:02 | Bagder | "Evidently the Rockbox developers have some strange ideas about actually working on the code, though; they haven't gotten around to the promotional side of things yet." |
| 23:04:08 | bluebrother | I'm quite a bit unhappy in how the quick start tab works right now |
| 23:04:18 | Bagder | maybe we'll get there in another three years! |
| 23:04:19 | Nico_P | Bagder: that's from Corbet ;) |
| 23:04:22 | gevaerts | It says "This is the recommended method for new installations" |
| 23:04:23 | bluebrother | who needs to promote? |
| 23:04:25 | | Join culture [0] (n=sam@cpc1-bele3-0-0-cust658.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:04:25 | domonoky | yes, we need to rework it sometime.. :-) |
| 23:04:28 | Bagder | yes |
| 23:04:40 | Nico_P | Bagder: maybe the 3.0 news item could also have a link to the release notes page? |
| 23:04:46 | gevaerts | And I think we want to recommend 3.0 for new people |
| 23:04:47 | | Quit mcuelenaere () |
| 23:04:51 | bluebrother | we do have release notes? |
| 23:05:06 | Nico_P | they're not really up to scratch yet |
| 23:05:09 | bluebrother | gevaerts: true. Will look into it. Rbutil coming a bit later won't hurt. |
| 23:05:19 | Nico_P | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseNotes30 |
| 23:05:29 | bluebrother | also, the h10 mtp vs ums issue is really a bad thing :/ |
| 23:05:34 | Nico_P | I'm not sure about the usefulness of having the credits there btw |
| 23:05:46 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@195.167.65.109) |
| 23:07:10 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf_ () |
| 23:08:29 | * | Bagder starts a 3.0 voice build |
| 23:10:22 | DerPapst | Zagor: http://pastebin.com/m45f00fd this probably does the trik. this way you can enable/disable joins with CSS again without overwriting the usersettings |
| 23:10:43 | | Join massiveH [0] (n=massiveH@ool-44c48a1e.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:10:46 | Bagder | http://www.programaslivres.net/2008/09/24/rockbox-30/ |
| 23:10:55 | bluebrother | hmm, those todo marks on the release notes are a bit ... weird |
| 23:11:32 | bluebrother | maybe we should try to put all stuff in order before announcing the next release (i.e. already have builds done and distributed to the mirrors, etc.)? |
| 23:11:34 | Hillshum | the ostatic one has a fact or two off.. |
| 23:11:41 | Nico_P | bluebrother: I agree |
| 23:12:47 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p579EC9F9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:13:27 | bluebrother | it could even make sense to decide a time frame in advantage. Like decide an internal release date, and have the official release one week later |
| 23:13:40 | Hillshum | yeah |
| 23:14:56 | Nico_P | bluebrother: I've edited the release notes slightly |
| 23:15:01 | Bagder | well, I think I now have most of the scripts done so next time things will be more automatic |
| 23:17:11 | amiconn | ehm... |
| 23:18:50 | Nico_P | amiconn: what? |
| 23:18:59 | amiconn | See build table... |
| 23:19:11 | * | domonoky just fixed this h10_5gbmtp download issue ins svn.. |
| 23:19:26 | | Quit ompaul (Client Quit) |
| 23:19:45 | | Join Lambduh [0] (n=Lambda@12-203-112-233.client.mchsi.com) |
| 23:19:50 | amiconn | This might happen when hand-porting fixes from one tree to another ... sorry :\ |
| 23:19:50 | bluebrother | nice :) |
| 23:20:12 | domonoky | we have just too many different namings for our targets.. :-) |
| 23:20:22 | * | Bagder offers 1680 points on a silver plate |
| 23:20:44 | gevaerts | It's one of the most consistent reds I've seen though |
| 23:21:35 | Nico_P | Bagder: what do you think about adding a link to the release notes in the front page news item and maybe on the download page? |
| 23:21:40 | | Quit martin` (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:21:42 | bluebrother | even the numbers are equally distributed :) |
| 23:22:22 | Bagder | Nico_P: a good idea, I just wanted most of the "todo" items on the release notes to get fixed but perhaps I should jsut go ahead |
| 23:22:49 | Nico_P | Bagder: I've fixed some and removed others. I'm about to deal with the known bugs |
| 23:23:42 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:23:58 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:24:20 | bluebrother | wtf ...? now rbutil crashes upon exit? |
| 23:25:07 | bluebrother | ah, might be caused by rockbox.org being slow and objects not getting cleaned up properly. Still bad. |
| 23:26:56 | | Quit reacocard (".") |
| 23:32:00 | | Join ilembitov [0] (n=5b4c1ddd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2fbd21bcd9c785ab) |
| 23:32:42 | ilembitov | Hi, all. Are there any plans to support iPod Shuffle? I mean additional codecs, etc. |
| 23:32:54 | BigBambi | no |
| 23:33:04 | Bagder | ilembitov: feel free to go ahead, we won't stop you! |
| 23:33:13 | BigBambi | The first gen ipod shuffle has a cpu without a freely available compiler doesn't it? |
| 23:33:19 | Bagder | yes |
| 23:33:37 | Bagder | not to mention how the RE work with no screen is a lot harder |
| 23:33:42 | BigBambi | that too |
| 23:33:43 | | Quit Nibbler (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 23:33:55 | DerPapst | and i wouldn't wondr if the 2nd and 3rd gen nanos are encrypted too |
| 23:34:13 | BigBambi | I'm be shocked if they weren't |
| 23:34:17 | BigBambi | *I'd |
| 23:34:37 | * | Llorean thought there were only two gens of Shuffle, and thought we knew 2G and 3G Nanos were encrypted already |
| 23:35:09 | BigBambi | I misread DerPapst's post with shuffle for nano |
| 23:35:18 | DerPapst | err |
| 23:35:21 | BigBambi | And just assumed there was a 3g shuffle I didn't know about |
| 23:35:26 | DerPapst | i meant shuffles ;) |
| 23:35:28 | DerPapst | sorry |
| 23:36:07 | | Join samdouglas [0] (n=sam@219-89-11-138.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 23:36:19 | | Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:36:27 | | Quit EspeonEefi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:36:37 | DerPapst | according to the iPL wiki (yes i have a copy) there is an old gcc compiler for the DSP56000 ftp://nic.funet.fi/pub/ham/dsp/dsp56k-tools/ |
| 23:37:00 | | Join Nibbler [0] (n=Nibbler@e181094136.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:38:02 | DerPapst | there is a 3rd generation shuffle. it looks the (almost?) the same as the 2nd generation. no idea about the internals. |
| 23:38:59 | | Join reacocard [0] (n=reacocar@WL-433.CINE.HMC.Edu) |
| 23:38:59 | gevaerts | Is that gcc version 1.37? |
| 23:39:20 | DerPapst | the wiki just states that it's old ;) |
| 23:39:30 | * | ameyer points out the obvious ancientness |
| 23:39:43 | DerPapst | so 1.37 would be pretty old ;) |
| 23:39:51 | samdouglas | I am trying to get Rockbox running on an Olympus mrobe 100, however with the latest current and all the daily builds I tried, I have no sound output |
| 23:39:56 | * | ameyer guesses circa 1993 |
| 23:40:31 | gevaerts | ameyer: Jun 8 1992 UNIX Compr. Tar dsp56k-gcc.tar.Z 1975Kb |
| 23:41:18 | ameyer | wow... gcc.gnu.org says 1.37 came out February 11, 1990 |
| 23:41:48 | DerPapst | heh. so gcc 1.37 is already mature ^^ |
| 23:42:18 | ameyer | my first guess was 1990, but something inside me said "it can't be that old, can it?" |
| 23:43:20 | gevaerts | Not surprisingly, the build system doesn't know about linux |
| 23:43:21 | | Quit shotofadds (Operation timed out) |
| 23:44:05 | | Quit jgarvey ("Leaving") |
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| 23:44:31 | Nico_P | the MD5sum plugin isn't included in the release, right? |
| 23:44:40 | gevaerts | no |
| 23:47:05 | Nico_P | OK, I've added a list of known bugs to the release notes page |
| 23:48:52 | * | Bagder copies 26 voice zips to the download server master |
| 23:49:40 | markun | Bagder: which TTS did you use? |
| 23:49:46 | Bagder | the same as always |
| 23:49:47 | * | bluebrother thinks rbutil needs improved support for release isntallations |
| 23:50:09 | Bagder | festival |
| 23:50:53 | ameyer | is that the one that sounds like a drunken scottish guy? |
| 23:51:59 | Nico_P | Bagder: what do you think should be done with the MajorChanges page? "fork" it to MajorChangesIn3.0, or divide it in sections? |
| 23:52:14 | markun | Bagder: with one of the mbrola voices? |
| 23:52:14 | Bagder | I think sections is the way |
| 23:52:27 | Bagder | isn't that for espeak? |
| 23:52:42 | Bagder | I use plain debian installed festival |
| 23:52:52 | Bagder | I've never even heard them myself! ;-) |
| 23:53:21 | markun | Bagder: you can also use mbrola voices with espeak, but I've used them with festival in the past |
| 23:53:28 | Bagder | aha |
| 23:54:53 | Nico_P | rasher: I'm afraid I might break your MajroChanges RSS feed with some changes |
| 23:54:53 | | Quit FOAD ("I'll be back") |
| 23:55:27 | * | Bagder goes to bed |
| 23:56:32 | rasher | Nico_P: In which way? I think I designed it to just keep sending what it has, if it fails to parse the page |
| 23:56:37 | rasher | So it shouldn't break too badly |
| 23:57:04 | markun | Bagder: good night |
| 23:57:16 | toffe82 | Nico_P: don't you think it would be good to modify the "releases" page on the wiki, it still said no current release |
| 23:57:16 | Nico_P | rasher: let's hope so :) |
| 23:57:26 | rasher | Nico_P: what are you going to do with it? |
| 23:57:35 | | Join homielowe [0] (n=homielow@66.183.73.145) |
| 23:57:35 | Nico_P | rasher: add sections |
| 23:57:41 | Llorean | markun: The samples I made at one point in the past were done with espeak |
| 23:57:48 | Llorean | espeak+mbrola sounds really good (IMHO) |
| 23:58:07 | Llorean | I think espeak pronounces better than festival, at least. |
| 23:58:08 | Nico_P | "Major changes since version 3.0" and "Major changes in version 3.0 since version 2.5" (anyone got a better title?) |
| 23:58:24 | | Join FOAD [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 23:58:39 | rasher | Nothing stopping us from creating various sorts of voices for 3.0 |
| 23:58:46 | | Quit Zagor ("Leaving") |
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