| 00:00:36 | Llorean | dereine: I'd second the c200 or e200 if you're looking for a small, flash player. |
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| 00:04:30 | confused | scorche i tried WinFF several times now but i cant change the size of the video to be 176 x 132 so it will fit my ipod.... please can u tell me what im doing wrong |
| 00:04:59 | | Join lasser [0] (n=chatzill@Wb954.w.pppool.de) |
| 00:05:17 | linuxstb | confused: This isn't really on-topic for here, but what happens when you try? Also, can't you just use the provided (on the wiki I think) preset? |
| 00:05:18 | * | kugel just reads about WinARM |
| 00:05:49 | kugel | Sounds promising to compile rockbox natively on a windows machine |
| 00:07:08 | confused | ok when i try i can change only options like 4:3 and so on or if i want it for ipod and other mp3's (it never says ipod nano) and the wiki is making me more confused |
| 00:07:38 | confused | cuz the way its explained on the wiki u kinda gotta know what to do to understand it |
| 00:08:36 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 00:09:06 | bluebrother | kugel: ever heard of yagarto? |
| 00:09:29 | kugel | not yet |
| 00:09:38 | confused | so can u help me linuxstb |
| 00:09:39 | bluebrother | you'll still get issues with shells and possibly missing scripting stuff |
| 00:10:00 | Llorean | confused: Please use real words like "you" here, as per the channel guidelines. |
| 00:10:16 | confused | ok |
| 00:10:18 | | Quit freqmod_qu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:10:25 | Llorean | confused: The current version of WinFF should have Rockbox presets, but you'll need to look through its documentation for how to use it. |
| 00:10:26 | linuxstb | confused: No, I've never used winff. I would suggest searching the winff forums, and if you can't find an answer, post a question |
| 00:11:08 | bluebrother | thinking of tools like sed, awk and stuff. Maybe running from inside msys would help with this |
| 00:11:15 | confused | alright thank you |
| 00:11:48 | kugel | bluebrother: yea, msys was my first thought too |
| 00:11:51 | | Join mercora [0] (n=mercora@91-64-187-234-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 00:12:41 | mercora | hey there is the link to the ui simulator down on the extra section of the website or is it me ? where could i find the sim ? |
| 00:12:45 | Llorean | kugel: amiconn has recently had success getting the cross compilers and such set up in interix. |
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| 00:13:16 | Llorean | mercora: Generally you should compile your own from the latest source. We don't provide a binary of it, and third party ones may be out of date and mislead you. |
| 00:13:28 | | Quit bmbl ("Woah!") |
| 00:13:56 | mercora | is there documentation on setting up the development environment ? |
| 00:14:09 | Llorean | mercora: What do you want to use the sim for, btw? |
| 00:14:24 | Llorean | mercora: And yes, it should be linked in the developers section of the wiki docs index, I think. |
| 00:15:07 | | Quit bluebrother ("anyway, time for sleep") |
| 00:16:39 | mercora | Llorean: just for creating a theme but who knows what else i want to do with it is it a full emulator for the software or just UI ? |
| 00:17:15 | kugel | I can't install interix on my xp64. |
| 00:17:32 | kugel | at least the setup aborted telling me that |
| 00:17:54 | | Quit petur ("Zzzzz") |
| 00:18:07 | Llorean | mercora: It's a UI simulator, no emulation happens which is why we don't call it an emulator. |
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| 00:20:07 | | Quit lol3izer_ ("out") |
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| 00:20:27 | mercora | Llorean: amkes sense to me thanks for the help ;) |
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| 00:23:32 | confused | thank you Llorean your advice worked and I got my video loaded :) |
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| 00:25:51 | | Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 00:27:25 | | Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat") |
| 00:28:32 | | Join RyoS [0] (n=ryo@cl-1804.ham-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 00:28:35 | RyoS | hi all |
| 00:28:55 | Dementio | morning |
| 00:29:07 | RyoS | maybe the answer is asked everyday 10x, but: powerhandling on iAudio X5 - is there anything going around anymore? :/ |
| 00:29:34 | Dementio | um.... |
| 00:29:35 | RyoS | i just changed my battery to a 1100mAh pack, and it gives me 7hours 33minutes, just like original.. |
| 00:29:52 | Dementio | i dunno, all i know is ipods |
| 00:29:53 | Llorean | RyoS: Did you run it to test? |
| 00:29:53 | RyoS | testing it for almost 4 days now, trying OF now.. |
| 00:29:54 | Dementio | :/ |
| 00:29:56 | Dementio | oh |
| 00:29:57 | Dementio | nvm |
| 00:29:58 | RyoS | Llorean: yes |
| 00:30:17 | Llorean | RyoS: So you ran the player from full to empty and it the battery benchmark file only gave you 7h 33m? |
| 00:30:30 | Llorean | Rockbox consistently gets better battery life than the original firmware for other testers on the X5 |
| 00:31:11 | RyoS | sometimes less i think.. today i charged it fully, updated to 3.0 release, went to work. something between 3-4h the battery ran low on me |
| 00:31:14 | RyoS | :/ |
| 00:31:19 | | Quit ender` (" I have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.") |
| 00:31:27 | gevaerts | That's definitely not normal |
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| 00:34:09 | gevaerts | My X5L gets nearly 28 hours, and if http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart is correct that one has 2250mAh, so about twice yours |
| 00:34:20 | RyoS | http://rafb.net/p/UgkCto84.html |
| 00:34:26 | | Join SUSaiyan` [0] (n=SUSaiyan@cc84863-b.zwoll1.ov.home.nl) |
| 00:34:35 | RyoS | those are the latest logs, if you might want to have a look at the batterybench log |
| 00:34:44 | | Quit SUSaiyan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:35:28 | RyoS | http://www.batteryupgrade.com/product_detail.php?productId=63549911 <- this is the battery i purchased |
| 00:35:44 | gevaerts | What sort of files are you playing? Do you use the equalizer? |
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| 00:37:06 | RyoS | equalizer is put to normal i guess, cant check now since i am charging to test the OF, but i never directly access it |
| 00:38:36 | | Quit quelsaruk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:39:56 | gevaerts | Which codec do you use? |
| 00:40:13 | Llorean | RyoS: And during that period you didn't touch the player (no skipping tracks, volume adjustments, etc)? |
| 00:40:21 | RyoS | nope |
| 00:40:27 | RyoS | gevaerts: mp3 mostly |
| 00:40:52 | RyoS | got some albums as flac.. but i dont use them for battery bench |
| 00:42:22 | gevaerts | ok. mp3 should be fine. 7:30 definitely sounds too short to me for mp3 on a new 1100mAh battery |
| 00:42:32 | lasser | Perhaps its a stupid question but I really can't find anything about it: How can I apply more than one patch to rockbox (#6800 and #8363)? |
| 00:42:51 | gevaerts | lasser: just apply both of them |
| 00:43:17 | RyoS | gevaerts: so, anything i could try tomorrow after testing the OF? |
| 00:43:18 | Llorean | gevaerts: Looking at the bench, another run ran about an hour longer, there's definitely some inconsistency in playback time too |
| 00:44:29 | gevaerts | RyoS: was the volume set the same (more or less) for all tests? |
| 00:44:58 | RyoS | gevaerts: nope :/ something around 0 and -5 is standard |
| 00:45:05 | RyoS | my headphones are pretty loud |
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| 00:45:41 | RyoS | so, fully charged, i will start my test with OF now :) |
| 00:45:47 | gevaerts | hm. I get a 15% difference in runtime between maximum and medium volume |
| 00:45:50 | RyoS | i hate how it looks :S |
| 00:46:16 | gevaerts | Actually, that difference is on gigabeat... |
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| 00:48:35 | gevaerts | Llorean: part of the difference is the starting and ending capacities. Those account for about 20 minutes I think. That leaves another 40 for unknown reasons |
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| 00:48:59 | | Join mmadia [0] (n=chatzill@pool-138-89-96-141.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:53:34 | soap | MarcGuay, I need to expand said wiki page to include a place to put info regarding that patch. We (I) need to get the collected information regarding what works and what doesn't out of that forum thread and into the wiki. I, personally, would not have deleted that entry. It is my fault there is not a proper place to put the information, not the submitter's fault for using the only form found to add said information. |
| 00:54:15 | lasser | gevaerts: yesterday night the patches ran into an error, today all seems to be ok... I knew it was stupid :-( Nevertheless thank you. |
| 00:54:42 | gevaerts | lasser: if the patches touch the same code, order may matter |
| 00:55:23 | mmadia | soap which thread? |
| 00:55:30 | MarcGuay | soap: I figured you would be combing the thread at some point. In the meantime, it's not providing false information and the wiki history is easy to farm. |
| 00:56:27 | MarcGuay | PS: I'm more than willing to help. |
| 00:56:33 | Llorean | soap: Re the accessory protocol patch, have there been any negative side effects mentioned by people? |
| 00:56:41 | soap | negative? No. |
| 00:57:18 | soap | But no reports of any sort involving behavior outside testing with accessories. I do not know how many people use it as their primary build. |
| 00:57:28 | Llorean | Can you think of any reason why it shouldn't go into SVN assuming everything's separated so it doesn't affect other targets? |
| 00:58:36 | soap | I'll admit not having personally tested it myself, as I do not own a single iPod-specific accessory. How about you give me a week of running it as my main build and let me get back to you? I can ask the same thing of the users in the forum thread. |
| 00:59:04 | lasser | gevaerts: is there a rule for which patch I have to apply first? 1. Lowest FS# 2. Higher FS# 3. Highest FS#? |
| 00:59:25 | RyoS | lasser: nope |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:08 | gevaerts | lasser: if you get conflicts, you can try a different order, or fix them by hand. That's about as far as rules go |
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| 01:00:47 | Llorean | soap: Sounds good to me. I'd just like to push it in sooner rather than later so we have time to stumble across any kinks and give them lots of time for fixing. |
| 01:02:43 | kugel | Llorean: winarm seems to work |
| 01:03:01 | | Join neddy1 [0] (n=john@nat/sun/x-2f0e052814d814b6) |
| 01:03:19 | Llorean | kugel: winarm isn't a solution on its own. |
| 01:03:44 | kugel | well, together with msys |
| 01:03:56 | | Join |AhIoRoS| [0] (n=ahioros@200.75.224.98) |
| 01:03:59 | Llorean | How were you planning on compiling the SH1 and m68k targets? |
| 01:04:13 | | Join Billenium [0] (i=byd201@c-69-249-254-253.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 01:04:34 | kugel | I didn't plan anything. I'm just interested in how this turns out |
| 01:04:53 | Llorean | Well, what's the goal exactly? |
| 01:06:21 | Llorean | You'd mentioned earlier trying to compile Rockbox natively, but for it to be a suitable alternate environment it should really let people have the option to test-compile all targets since patches often have unintended consequences the first time they're written. |
| 01:06:37 | | Quit neddy (Success) |
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| 01:11:51 | MarcGuay | soap: An obvious suggestion for the Accessories table, replace the date with the revision number. |
| 01:13:08 | soap | Yea, but that is confusing as well. |
| 01:13:41 | soap | I'd rather it be "0" for pre accessory support. "1" for rev.1 accessory support, "2" for rev.2 accessory support, etc. |
| 01:13:56 | | Quit MethoS_ (Success) |
| 01:14:06 | soap | That, of course, would necessitate the posting on that wiki page of what accessory support revision we are on. |
| 01:17:36 | | Join nutrientman [0] (n=45b57a7f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-fc0be3a0aef92676) |
| 01:18:30 | soap | also need to add columns for all the features tested with and without accessory power supply turned on. Or at the minimal one - "Is Accessory Power Supply Needed To Make This Stinking Device Work?" (but that long of a title would bust the formatting) |
| 01:18:57 | nutrientman | i loaded rockbox on my ipod 3g, it works fine, except that the computer will not recognize it now. does anyone know how to make the computer see it as a removable disk agasin? what i did was to format the ipod with fat32, copy .rockbox and use ipod patcher and copy a couple of mp3's as a test. |
| 01:19:07 | MarcGuay | Would the pre-support info have any value once it's in trunk? Answering my own question: it would for 3.0 users. Hmm. I was also thinking we could easily tell what accesorry support revision we were at by the main RB revision number if it was noted what subversion entry added it. |
| 01:19:47 | Llorean | soap: Does the revision number matter? |
| 01:20:06 | Llorean | I mean, as long as there aren't later revisions breaking support for devices, it should just be "without patch" and "with patch" |
| 01:20:16 | soap | It also would have value just so we can keep track of /when/ an accessory was tested. If we do not note that an accessory was tested back in the dark ages then we do not know we need a retester. |
| 01:20:42 | Llorean | Why don't we get it in SVN, then just require an SVN revision. ;) |
| 01:21:00 | MarcGuay | I was assuming we were going with that model. |
| 01:21:15 | soap | Llorean, the revision number matters for just the reasons I outlined above. If we do not know /when/ in the course of support attempts it was tested we don't know if retesting is needed. |
| 01:21:22 | | Quit coatman ("Buh Bye") |
| 01:21:45 | soap | You are right, SVN revision number does tell all. It is just a harder-to-quickly-parse number. |
| 01:21:54 | Llorean | soap: I'm not sure I follow that. How do we know retesting is ever needed? |
| 01:22:06 | soap | (This is the same positional argument we had over WPS syntax revision numbers) |
| 01:22:17 | Llorean | If a device works, it works. We won't know it stops working until someone tries it, and it doesn't work, at which point it's already been retested. |
| 01:22:32 | Llorean | Until such time as someone tries it, it's in a state of "old, but there's no real reason it shouldn't work as far as we know" |
| 01:22:37 | soap | Retesting is clearly needed if an accessory was reported non-functioning 1 revision in accessory support ago. |
| 01:22:52 | Llorean | Ah, forward re-testing. |
| 01:22:59 | soap | you're thinking of positive reports, I'm thinking of negative reports. |
| 01:23:04 | soap | yep |
| 01:23:25 | pixelma | nutrientman: do you connect while Rockbox is running or from an off state? |
| 01:23:37 | soap | and, the way the patch progressed, I think there is a _high_ possibility of regression. |
| 01:24:05 | Llorean | soap: Yeah, but regression will result in self-testing anyway. |
| 01:24:20 | Llorean | But you're right, discovering when a non-working device starts working is different. |
| 01:24:21 | soap | Many of the issues appear to my untrained eye to be baud rate negotiation, and a new negotiation plan attempting to solve one accessory might very well bork another? |
| 01:24:36 | Llorean | soap: I thought most of the baud-rate negotiation issues had been worked out. |
| 01:25:36 | * | Llorean will admit he hasn't kept track of it for a few months though. |
| 01:26:11 | Llorean | One option is to *just* have working devices on the wiki, and ask people to file bug reports against non-working devices (once it's in SVN) |
| 01:26:28 | Llorean | Among other things, that allows us a return-contact path once it's possible the device is fixed so we can ask the same person to re-test it. |
| 01:26:30 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:26:36 | MarcGuay | Presumably this testing will lead to a better understanding of accessory power detection as well and that menu option can be removed. IIRC it was added a temporary hack. |
| 01:26:45 | soap | One of the advantages of showing non-working items on the wiki page is it allows people to see what has been tested and what hasn't. |
| 01:27:19 | soap | It is not only a buyers guide for the cautious, it is a buyer's guide for the adventurous (who choose to buy an untested item). |
| 01:27:21 | Llorean | soap: We could get someone to add a "peripherals" category to flyspray, and link to that search from the page. |
| 01:27:34 | kugel | Meh, lang.h is not found... |
| 01:27:42 | soap | If I were a cautious person I would be hacked the "IpodAccessories" page didn't clearly outline what was known not to be working. |
| 01:27:48 | Llorean | I think using flyspray for known-bad helps to make sure we can get in contact with them again. |
| 01:28:14 | soap | I'm not against reporting non-working items as bugs, I just don't see why they should be removed from the one-stop lookup page. |
| 01:28:14 | Llorean | kugel: Why not attempt to work on a solution that's valid for all targets? |
| 01:28:19 | MarcGuay | soap: It will need to be made very clear that even though a certain chart says their accessory doesn't work, new testing it required because thing have changed... People may otherwise not bother after seeing the red X. |
| 01:28:36 | MarcGuay | *is required |
| 01:28:48 | kugel | Llorean: I can start finding one for arm, then if I succeed I can try to find one for the others |
| 01:29:12 | Llorean | soap: Then you don't need to worry about tracking versions, for one. |
| 01:29:22 | Llorean | kugel: winarm uses the wrong GCC and binutils version according to their website. |
| 01:30:19 | kugel | yea, I've noticed that. I have a doubt though that this is the cause of the lang.h issue |
| 01:30:28 | Llorean | soap: If we have bug reports, they'll get closed when fixed. But I'm not sure how often the page would get updated to reflect the fixed bugs (much like many of our other wiki pages) |
| 01:30:44 | Llorean | kugel: Yes, but it does mean it won't be a recommended way to build Rockbox... |
| 01:31:06 | kugel | Sure, but let me have some fun please |
| 01:31:08 | soap | I take offense at that! ;) |
| 01:31:23 | soap | I do pretty well keeping my pet wiki pages up-to-date. |
| 01:31:40 | soap | And I start forum threads telling other people to do it for me when I get busy. :P |
| 01:31:45 | Llorean | kugel: You're welcome to have all the fun you want, but please remember this is for stuff intended to forward Rockbox development. If you know it won't be used, you're basically doing the same sort of stuff as say an unsupported build. Peripherally related, but not really belonging here. |
| 01:31:46 | * | scorche wonders why kugel needs Llorean's permission to have "fun" |
| 01:32:24 | kugel | Llorean: what if the version turns out as working? |
| 01:32:38 | Llorean | kugel: We ask people to use the _exact_ same versions we do. |
| 01:32:47 | Llorean | even if it works, it's not the same version so it won't be a recommended method. |
| 01:33:02 | MarcGuay | Llorean: The problem still remains of future revisions breaking the support for previously-working certain accessories. At which point, those bugs get re-opened? |
| 01:33:12 | MarcGuay | -certain |
| 01:33:14 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Or new bugs filed, doesn't really matter. |
| 01:33:34 | scorche | kugel: then make a wiki page about it, dont link it anywhere else, really, put a few warnings up, and wait while it slides gently into oblivion and disuse |
| 01:33:36 | Llorean | MarcGuay: I'm confident people will let us know, vocally, when their accessories that used to work stop. |
| 01:34:03 | soap | I still think the largest issue is that I, personally, would be pissed if I bought something Rockbox knew was non-functional with my iPod and removed wiki reference to said knowledge. |
| 01:34:06 | Llorean | soap: Well, it's your baby. Just offering some suggestions. |
| 01:34:47 | soap | no no no - We need consensus on this, I'm a worker bee, not a queen. |
| 01:34:59 | Llorean | I just think Flyspray tasks are, in general, more likely to be productive and useful (especially since someone with the same device can read discussion of its problems more thoroughly if there is any, etc) |
| 01:35:30 | nutrientman | pixelma: thanks for the response, i figured it out. i needed to reboot and hit the ff or rew to get my ipod 3g to go into disk mode |
| 01:35:34 | Llorean | I think a "Known Working" page is useful, then a link that says "Devices known not to be working" and it links to flyspray filtered for open accessories tasks |
| 01:35:52 | nutrientman | cheers, have a nice day |
| 01:35:59 | | Quit nutrientman ("CGI:IRC") |
| 01:36:09 | soap | Llorean, that would solve the problem. |
| 01:36:10 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 01:36:48 | Llorean | soap: I think it'd be the best hybrid solution. Makes the "known good" list easy to view, and makes the "Known bad" list be in a single location, easy for people to submit to (I think flyspray is easier than the wiki), and allows for easy contact-back. |
| 01:37:33 | Llorean | Of course, for that, we need an "Accessories" category in flyspray. |
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| 01:46:02 | | Part toffe82 |
| 01:49:16 | kugel | objcopy is horribly slow :( |
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| 01:50:51 | kugel | Is using a higher gcc version even viable to you, or do you intend to stick with the known-to-work versions for the time being? |
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| 01:51:53 | | Quit webguest20 (Client Quit) |
| 01:52:07 | kugel | s/viable/valuable |
| 01:52:20 | | Quit Schmo ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 01:52:31 | | Quit neddy ("Leaving.") |
| 01:52:57 | scorche | kugel: is there a good reason for using a higher gcc? |
| 01:53:42 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:54:06 | | Quit confused ("CGI:IRC") |
| 01:54:27 | Llorean | kugel: For m68k, I don't believe the architecture is supported by GCC 4.x at all. |
| 01:54:44 | amiconn | it is |
| 01:54:51 | Llorean | amiconn: I thought it wasn't? |
| 01:55:00 | * | Llorean must've misremembered. |
| 01:55:28 | amiconn | You can use 4.0.x just fine. It produces slightly larger code, which is sometimes a bit slower, but in other cases significantly faster than that produced by 3.4.x |
| 01:55:53 | Llorean | Why don't we use 4.0.3 for it then, too? |
| 01:56:13 | amiconn | I guess it's just because it didn't see much testing yet |
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| 01:57:59 | kugel | scorche: I haven't tested, but I would believe newer compiler versions are likely to create "better" code |
| 01:58:00 | amiconn | 4.3.x is even supposed to bring a significant performance improvement for coldfire, but so far no one has managed to use this successfully (iirc there were issues with gcc <-> gas interaction for our coldfire variants) |
| 01:58:14 | scorche | kugel: and what would give you that impression? |
| 01:58:35 | Llorean | kugel: "are supposed to" and "are likely to" are two different suppositions. |
| 01:59:09 | soap | Llorean, one last thing... |
| 01:59:25 | soap | What about the "Known partially good" list? ;) |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:56 | | Quit mercora (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:03:56 | Llorean | soap: What does "partially good" mean? |
| 02:04:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I'm going to snippet your patch from eariler and remove all of the SanDisk-related patchings before I patch for the Gigabeat. |
| 02:05:56 | pixelma | I believe n1s and Lear did some testing of 4.x gcc versions on coldfire but I don't remember the outcome(s) |
| 02:06:38 | kugel | scorche: just about every software gets better with the time |
| 02:07:11 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: Well, why do you want to strip it? It's not going to be compiled anyway |
| 02:07:34 | Llorean | kugel: Remember, GCC supports several architectures. GCC may get better, but its ability to produce optimized code for other architectures is not necessarily consistent. |
| 02:07:53 | scorche | kugel: compilers and code is a bit of a different story though... |
| 02:08:38 | kugel | Well, I can imagine. I was just saying why I think a higher version _could_ be better |
| 02:08:56 | Llorean | kugel: You were saying you thought a higher version was likely to be better. Nobody denied that it _could_ |
| 02:09:14 | | Quit DerPapst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 02:09:21 | kugel | then why are we arguing? |
| 02:09:50 | Llorean | Because some of us disagree with the "likely" statement, and you've just now changed it to "could" instead? |
| 02:10:24 | | Join servlsuser [0] (n=servlsus@207.160.166.98) |
| 02:10:30 | kugel | Ok, then I was just saying why I think a higher version is likely to better. |
| 02:10:32 | servlsuser | hello again |
| 02:10:47 | | Nick servlsuser is now known as nossracer (n=servlsus@207.160.166.98) |
| 02:10:54 | scorche | kugel: which we are saying the "likely" bit is highly suspect |
| 02:11:08 | kugel | Yes yes, I got that |
| 02:11:13 | nossracer | thank you again bigbambi for your info earlier it worked beautifully |
| 02:11:50 | nossracer | however i do have a couple of more questions |
| 02:12:21 | nossracer | is there anyway to get rid of the delay when i turn my volume up? |
| 02:12:37 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I've already applied FS #6800 before. Why am I going to do it again? |
| 02:13:43 | Llorean | nossracer: There's not normally a delay. What player is this? |
| 02:14:08 | nossracer | sansa e250r |
| 02:15:25 | nossracer | i am not really sure what i did to it the other night but i have a 2gb sansa and a 2gb sd card and my player was telling me that i had almost 8,000 songs on it |
| 02:15:45 | | Join neddy [0] (n=john@nat/sun/x-897aec16fa8c50ca) |
| 02:15:49 | | Part pixelma |
| 02:16:28 | | Join pixelma2 [0] (n=marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 02:17:13 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: svn revert is your friend here |
| 02:17:50 | kugel | Anyway, the built I compiled with winarm on windows runs |
| 02:18:12 | kugel | cool |
| 02:19:53 | nossracer | anybody have any suggestions |
| 02:20:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I reverted the patch. |
| 02:20:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | Now I'll try yours. |
| 02:20:37 | kugel | nice, thanks :) |
| 02:20:43 | * | kugel hopes it works |
| 02:23:39 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: I only implemented fading down now, since fading up is done in hardware. If it works, it'd be nice if you compare both and also try different backlight brightness settings |
| 02:23:52 | LambdaCalculus37 | http://pastebin.com/m6092d6fe |
| 02:24:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | Doing this on OS X. |
| 02:25:15 | soap | Llorean, "partially good" as in some features work, some don't. |
| 02:25:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Let me try the patch I made from yours that only includes the Gigabeat S changes. |
| 02:25:47 | Llorean | soap: I'd say those should just have open bug reports too, but I do see some value in having a way to let people know they can get *some* use out of 'em |
| 02:25:58 | | Quit mmadia (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:26:02 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: well, you can ignore it, all hunks were applied |
| 02:26:14 | nossracer | hello? |
| 02:26:29 | kugel | the end-of-file seems to be messed up a bit due to pastebin |
| 02:26:58 | | Part Billenium |
| 02:27:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Well, let's find out! |
| 02:28:07 | * | LambdaCalculus37 hits the big red button and compiles |
| 02:28:20 | kugel | hehe |
| 02:29:44 | * | kugel happily runs a gcc4.1.1 compiled rockbox (although he noticed some warnings during compilation) |
| 02:31:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Speaking of warnings, I got two warnings for backlight.c |
| 02:31:53 | kugel | really? |
| 02:32:08 | kugel | which? |
| 02:32:19 | LambdaCalculus37 | http://pastebin.com/m6fb29c90 |
| 02:32:40 | * | nossracer is showing Channel Stats for #rockbox which will be displayed publicly within 5 seconds. |
| 02:32:46 | nossracer | Stats for: #rockbox |
| 02:32:47 | nossracer | Modes: +cntz |
| 02:32:48 | nossracer | Topic: Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines |
| 02:32:49 | DBUG | Sent KICK nossracer to server |
| 02:32:49 | nossracer | Users: 140 Users |
| 02:32:50 | Kick | (#rockbox nossracer :No flooding!) by logbot!n=bjst@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-507a9318582de8ba |
| 02:33:03 | | Join nossracer [0] (n=servlsus@207.160.166.98) |
| 02:33:08 | nossracer | whoops |
| 02:33:20 | nossracer | sorry about that guys new irc client |
| 02:34:06 | * | LambdaCalculus37 pets logbot and gives him a beer |
| 02:34:38 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: I don't get this warning(just a weird division by zero one) |
| 02:35:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: The universe is about to explode because of this, y'know. ;) |
| 02:36:20 | nossracer | well since nobody wants to help ill be going |
| 02:36:21 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Build's almost done. |
| 02:36:26 | | Part nossracer |
| 02:36:44 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: I actually worry about your warning. I wonder why I don't get it |
| 02:43:49 | | Quit starnoble ("Leaving") |
| 02:44:44 | kugel | how can (HZ/(DEFAULT_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING / 2) be division by zero, if the target defines DEFAULT_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING with 12? |
| 02:46:27 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: wait shortly before installing |
| 02:47:26 | | Quit neddy ("Leaving.") |
| 02:48:38 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: It's done compiling, but I'll wait (figure you'll want to check something). |
| 02:49:06 | soap | FWIW, initial tests on my iPod Nano show 10% longer runtime after the dual-core MP3 work. (VBR MP3 averaging 191kbps) |
| 02:49:36 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: I set a parenthesis wrong. Want a new patch or should I tell you which line in backlight.c? |
| 02:50:35 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 02:50:37 | soap | That said, no WPS vs Cabbie WPS gives you 15% longer runtime. |
| 02:51:16 | soap | *Cabbie v2 |
| 02:51:29 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: http://pastebin.ca/1214234 |
| 02:51:54 | kugel | soap: I've heard about the same difference between showing the wps and showing the main menu |
| 02:52:21 | | Join neddy [0] (n=john@nat/sun/x-d62d8a5d08e6c865) |
| 02:53:10 | soap | yes, kugel, that is what I mean by "no WPS" - leaving Rockbox in the menu tree instead of WPS. I wasn't very clear about that. |
| 02:53:21 | soap | Curious about no WPS vs empty WPS ;) |
| 02:53:31 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@adsl-70-135-35-52.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:53:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Thanks for the new patch. |
| 02:53:46 | * | LambdaCalculus37 reverts the old one |
| 02:53:50 | kugel | oh, now that you repeat it, I wonder why I got it wrong :S |
| 02:54:17 | Llorean | soap: I find myself wondering where a very basic wps (three non-scrolling lines, one for each of the basic tags) would land on battery life. |
| 02:54:41 | | Quit Nevtus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:55:16 | | Join Nevtus [0] (n=Nevtus@host81-159-78-176.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 02:55:30 | kugel | I find myself wondering how much runtime would disabling wps refresh/updating with off screen yield |
| 02:56:16 | kugel | (on screens that are unreadable without backlight of course) |
| 02:56:39 | Llorean | kugel: The problem is that, in part, drawing is an additive process. The functions don't really know the overall status of the screen, IIUC, so if you disabled drawing for a period, then re-enabled it, you'd be likely to end up with artifacts. |
| 02:57:25 | kugel | there's a patch on the tracker trying to implement it. On the sim you can clearly see the wps isn't updating anymore after some seconds |
| 02:57:29 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: The whole entire patch is still referring to paths on your computer. |
| 02:57:51 | Llorean | kugel: Didn't you remove that patch from your build because it causes glitchy behaviour? |
| 02:57:59 | * | kugel blames Geany's version diff plugin |
| 02:58:10 | kugel | No |
| 02:58:49 | Llorean | Oh, you left it in your build, but it causes glitchy behaviour. |
| 02:58:54 | kugel | the glitch is that alternating sublines are changing amazingly fast for a while after the screens turns on, but no artifacts or something |
| 02:58:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Didn't you use svn diff? |
| 02:59:27 | Llorean | kugel: have you done any battery benches to see if it actually improves things then? |
| 02:59:30 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: I use a plugin for geany, my text editor. It obviously uses absolute pathes |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:01 | kugel | Llorean: No, but I could do one |
| 03:00:38 | | Quit culture (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 03:01:54 | soap | I want to see the battery bench on a gigabeat with 24 band EQ! |
| 03:02:39 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: did you managed to find a fitting -p parameter? |
| 03:02:39 | * | LambdaCalculus37 usually sticks to svn diff |
| 03:03:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I edited the patch to fix the paths instead. |
| 03:03:23 | kugel | well, something like patch -p5 < patch.diff would've done it too |
| 03:03:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | Big reason why... just in case. ;) |
| 03:04:03 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: the plugin is supposed to use svn diff. I don't know exactly though |
| 03:08:33 | Bawitdaba | anyone ever shut off a rockboxed ipod video and not able to turn it on? |
| 03:08:40 | | Quit krazykit ("later tater") |
| 03:08:44 | Bawitdaba | i had to hold menu and select to clear it out and turn it on |
| 03:08:45 | | Join mmadia [0] (n=chatzill@pool-138-89-96-141.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:08:57 | Bawitdaba | i tried plugging it in and everything it was like a dead rock |
| 03:09:16 | soap | happens to me about 5-10% of the time. |
| 03:09:22 | Bawitdaba | really? |
| 03:09:35 | Bawitdaba | u just hold menu and select to turn it on right? |
| 03:09:36 | soap | it is the famous apple bootloader bug. |
| 03:09:45 | soap | yes... |
| 03:09:56 | Bawitdaba | that doesnt erase anything tho right? |
| 03:10:03 | soap | it erases nothing. |
| 03:10:07 | Bawitdaba | ah ok |
| 03:10:07 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: Indeed, -p5 was a decent guess |
| 03:10:09 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Now it applied clean. |
| 03:10:21 | Bawitdaba | i remember holding some sequence to format it long time ago |
| 03:10:31 | kugel | sounds good |
| 03:10:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I fixed the paths anyway, because I wanted to have one that's Flyspray-ready. |
| 03:10:34 | soap | the Apple bootloader appears to believe there is a super-low battery condition and refuses to power on until the battery trickle (?) charges up. |
| 03:10:49 | Bawitdaba | lol |
| 03:11:16 | Bawitdaba | is it possible to install rockbox on a pc/laptop with linux/unix/bsd? |
| 03:11:21 | soap | I know of no format sequence. Menu + Select is the hardware reset, just like a push-pin in the back of a H3x0, or long press of "power" on an e2x0 |
| 03:11:24 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: Is it a guideline to only update "-p0" patches? I've read it's preferred but not necessary |
| 03:11:32 | kugel | s/update/upload |
| 03:11:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: And in return, here's the FS-ready patch: Index: firmware/export/config-c200.h |
| 03:11:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | =================================================================== |
| 03:11:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | −−- firmware/export/config-c200.h(Revision 18669) |
| 03:11:55 | DBUG | Sent KICK LambdaCalculus37 to server |
| 03:11:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | +++ firmware/export/config-c200.h(Working copy) |
| 03:11:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | @@ -32,6 +32,9 @@ |
| 03:11:55 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 03:11:55 | DBUG | sent MODE #rockbox +b *!*n=Lambda*@*.hsd1.nj.comcast.net |
| 03:11:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | /* define this if you have a light associated with the buttons */ |
| 03:11:55 | Kick | (#rockbox LambdaCalculus37 :No flooding!) by logbot!n=bjst@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-507a9318582de8ba |
| 03:11:55 | *** | Alert Mode level 2 |
| 03:11:55 | Mode | "#rockbox +b *!*n=Lambda*@*.hsd1.nj.comcast.net " by logbot (n=bjst@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-507a9318582de8ba) |
| 03:12:02 | Bawitdaba | ouch |
| 03:12:11 | kugel | doh |
| 03:12:29 | * | Bawitdaba slaps logbot around a bit with a large trout |
| 03:12:52 | kugel | good to know that devs are handled equally :P |
| 03:12:59 | Bawitdaba | lmao |
| 03:13:40 | kugel | hm |
| 03:13:45 | kugel | will he come back? |
| 03:14:01 | Mode | "#rockbox +o Llorean " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 03:14:11 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 03:14:12 | Bawitdaba | when he gets unbanned |
| 03:15:33 | Bawitdaba | i have a really old sony vaio mini laptop that was designed for windows me i want to format it and use it for a mp3 player in my car |
| 03:15:43 | Bawitdaba | so i dont have to take my ipod with me |
| 03:15:47 | Mode | "#rockbox -b *!*n=Lambda*@*.hsd1.nj.comcast.net " by Llorean (n=DarkkOne@rockbox/administrator/Llorean) |
| 03:16:02 | Bawitdaba | can rockbox be installed on a pc or has anyone tried? |
| 03:16:24 | Bawitdaba | from the source i mean |
| 03:16:30 | kugel | Bawitdaba: There's the approach of "rockbox-as-an-app" |
| 03:16:37 | | Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=LambdaCa@c-24-0-218-198.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 03:16:37 | soap | there is the simulator |
| 03:16:51 | kugel | but it's not finished yet, so for the time being you can use one of the several ui simulators |
| 03:16:52 | Bawitdaba | right |
| 03:16:58 | | Join pabs [0] (n=pabs@xor.pablotron.org) |
| 03:17:08 | kugel | even though using them will just be a pain, especially in the car |
| 03:17:23 | Bawitdaba | but technically it is sort of possible |
| 03:17:35 | Mode | "#rockbox -o Llorean " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 03:17:38 | Bawitdaba | it might just not be as fully functional as normally |
| 03:17:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Does the patch look good? |
| 03:18:40 | kugel | jup |
| 03:19:09 | kugel | but better use the -pX parameter and do "svn diff" after if I happen to hand such a patch out again. it's safer |
| 03:20:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | Yes. |
| 03:21:57 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 03:22:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | But a -p0 is the best way to go, as I said before. |
| 03:24:28 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: sure, I'm just looking into the source of the plugin to fix it |
| 03:24:31 | | Join beaner [0] (n=43d902de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-5dab893967e00986) |
| 03:26:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:27:48 | | Join nickwb [0] (n=nickwb@ppp118-208-93-218.lns2.bne4.internode.on.net) |
| 03:29:29 | | Quit beaner ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 03:34:44 | | Join User__ [0] (n=chatzill@67.217.2.222) |
| 03:34:59 | | Nick User__ is now known as Beaner (n=chatzill@67.217.2.222) |
| 03:35:30 | Bawitdaba | now all i need to do is get some new ear buds |
| 03:35:58 | Bawitdaba | the ones that come with ipod suck so bad |
| 03:36:05 | Bawitdaba | can't believe ive used them for this long |
| 03:36:36 | LambdaCalculus37 | Bawitdaba: That's off-topic talk here. |
| 03:36:56 | Bawitdaba | lies |
| 03:39:36 | advcomp2019 | Bawitdaba, read the topic |
| 03:41:05 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: any updates? |
| 03:41:22 | MarcGuay | I think the manual needs to be less afraid of Rockboxc Utility, if we're going to call it the recommended install method. The wording clearly scares some people off of it, I know it did for me. |
| 03:43:33 | Llorean | MarcGuay: I think it just really hasn't been adjusted yet from when it was the experimental install process |
| 03:45:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Sorry, watching TV. I left another Gigabeast build compiling in the meantime. |
| 03:46:50 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: No warnings thus far. |
| 03:48:37 | Beaner | I installed the rockbox software on my 30gb ipod 5g, everything worked tits for a handful of days, then last night I was showing it off to a friend, noticed the battery was getting low, shut it down, and later threw it on my wall charger. Once I hooked it to the charger it fired up and went into the standard ipod format, I left it charging overnight, then in the morning pulled it off, it... |
| 03:48:39 | Beaner | ...shut down and now will not fire up at all. I get zero response from any button mashing, zero response hookin it to my computer, zero response putting it back on the wall charger, nothing at all, its acting like a fancy paper weight now! |
| 03:49:49 | Beaner | any ideas would be greatly appreciated, thank you, and nothing in the forums matches my problems, i believe the software i used was the current build as of a few days ago |
| 03:50:45 | kugel | You used the OF to charge. So, any damage is unlikely to be caused by rockbox |
| 03:51:05 | kugel | Have you tried hard-resetting your ipod? |
| 03:52:39 | Beaner | what is the hard reset combo again, |
| 03:52:52 | Beaner | lock unlock, then menu and ? |
| 03:53:17 | Beaner | sorry i can find it on apples site |
| 03:53:24 | kugel | can't help you on that one. i don't own an ipod |
| 03:53:38 | MarcGuay | Does the Gigabeat S charging patch only charge via AC? Leaving it connected through USB seems to let it die... |
| 03:53:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | MENU+SELECT. |
| 03:53:57 | Beaner | ok thank you ill try that, |
| 03:54:19 | LambdaCalculus37 | MarcGuay: IIRC yes, only through AC. |
| 03:54:34 | | Quit Beaner ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]") |
| 03:55:09 | MarcGuay | LambdaCalculus37: That explains a lot, thanks. :) I'm going to re-read the task now because I swear I read that it charges through both... |
| 03:56:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | MarcGuay: Me too, but it's good to double check. :) |
| 03:57:10 | | Join davidfg4 [0] (n=david@69.51.95.200) |
| 03:58:20 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: ping :) |
| 03:58:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Pong :) |
| 03:58:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | Still here. |
| 03:58:42 | | Quit webguest91 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 03:58:42 | kugel | good. |
| 03:59:20 | kugel | still building? |
| 03:59:29 | LambdaCalculus37 | It's done. Let me install. |
| 03:59:46 | kugel | I would even do it for you, if I could! |
| 04:00 |
| 04:02:37 | | Join feyd2blak [0] (n=83ac630f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-a734d16a9df347fa) |
| 04:04:27 | | Quit mmadia ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]") |
| 04:05:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: The brightness is goofed up. |
| 04:05:15 | feyd2blak | Hi All...just a quick question....I have just installed rockbox 3.0 from file (not using the GUI) and the theme settings, images etc, are not displaying, any ideas??? gigabeat F20 |
| 04:05:37 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: how do you mean? |
| 04:05:39 | MarcGuay | feyd2blak: The themes that came with it should work. |
| 04:05:59 | feyd2blak | in the play screen that is, the menu displays the background and the menu items OK... |
| 04:06:15 | MarcGuay | Are you loading them through Settings->Theme Settings? |
| 04:06:17 | feyd2blak | yeh thats what I thought |
| 04:06:26 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I have the brightness setting at 20 on the backlight. But it's much darker than it should be. |
| 04:06:44 | kugel | hm ok |
| 04:06:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | Plus, the backlight fading is very erratic. The backlight brigtens to max before turning off. |
| 04:06:53 | feyd2blak | I extracted the .rockbox file across same as I used to do and now have the issue |
| 04:07:01 | MarcGuay | feyd2blak: Themes that came from elsewhere may not work as expected, try ones from the WPS gallery in the wiki with recent modification dates. |
| 04:07:02 | kugel | does changing it the backlight do anything? |
| 04:07:19 | MarcGuay | feyd2blak: There were changes to the WPS syntax. |
| 04:07:27 | feyd2blak | cool, Ill be back |
| 04:07:40 | feyd2blak | thanks MarcGuay |
| 04:07:50 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Nope. |
| 04:07:54 | kugel | but the fading is generally working? not bad for untested & experimental code I suppose :P |
| 04:08:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: The fading works, but the backlight handling is very poor. |
| 04:08:32 | * | LambdaCalculus37 reverts the patch and builds once more without it |
| 04:08:42 | MarcGuay | feyd2blak: The font naming scheme also changed, you may need to re-install the font pack as well. Lots of action on the theme front recently. |
| 04:09:00 | | Join miepchen^schlaf_ [0] (n=miepchen@p579ECD96.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:09:29 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: so to sum up, it's a) dark, b) independent of of the setting and c) before fading down it goes to max brightness |
| 04:09:57 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Correctamundo. |
| 04:10:00 | MarcGuay | LambdaCalculus37: Re: GigS charging. After re-reading, I understand that it does pull a charge via USB but the fact that the disk is always spinning negates it. |
| 04:10:15 | kugel | Hm. ok, that needs further investigation |
| 04:10:18 | LambdaCalculus37 | MarcGuay: Ahh. |
| 04:11:25 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: how's fading up? should be unchanged |
| 04:11:48 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Fading up doesn't fade up to proper brightness. |
| 04:11:57 | | Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-548bfde4287503d5) |
| 04:12:08 | kugel | well, to the dark level I suppose |
| 04:12:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Yes. |
| 04:12:32 | feyd2blak | MarcGuay: Thanks...thats my issue, using only themes with the new rockbox...what can I do about getting the old themes to work |
| 04:12:35 | saratoga | soap: I haven't tested it, but I would expect most of the gain from disabling cabbie/WPS graphics to go away if you're using the MP3 on COP patch |
| 04:12:37 | kugel | and going to the settings and changing doesn't do anything? |
| 04:12:41 | kugel | kinda weird |
| 04:13:16 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I tried setting the brightness setting to both max and min... didn't change anything. |
| 04:13:21 | | Join Darksair [0] (n=user@221.221.144.56) |
| 04:13:49 | kugel | I think I need to play a bit with the variables then. The code is generally working |
| 04:14:13 | MarcGuay | feyd2blak: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17507.0 |
| 04:14:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: The best people to ask about this would be whoever did the LCD code for the Gigabeat S, or perhaps jhMikeS or amiconn. |
| 04:14:52 | * | LambdaCalculus37 yawns |
| 04:15:42 | kugel | well, as far as I see it's not a driver issue |
| 04:16:53 | kugel | or, it's a driver issue :P |
| 04:17:16 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Very observant. ;) |
| 04:17:38 | | Quit davidfg4 ("Bye") |
| 04:17:57 | | Quit MarcGuay ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]") |
| 04:18:06 | kugel | current_brightness doesn't get incremented in the way it should be on fading up, since we're using hardware fading |
| 04:18:49 | kugel | which is probably also the reason it'll never go for anything else then the default brightness value |
| 04:19:14 | | Quit nickwb ("Gotta Go") |
| 04:19:43 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I'm going to start turning in for the night soon. If you'd like, let me know how the backlight fading fixes go, and I'll check the logs tomorrow morning (my time). |
| 04:19:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | Good night! |
| 04:20:02 | kugel | good night |
| 04:20:25 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Ka-chunka") |
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| 04:26:37 | feyd2blak | MarcGuay: Thanks again will give it a whirl.... |
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| 04:46:49 | Llorean | wpyh: Generally speaking, what are your goals with reorganizing the menu? |
| 04:46:56 | Llorean | Less depth? Less categories? Different names? |
| 04:47:44 | wpyh | hm... actually more of those |
| 04:47:56 | wpyh | more categories, and some different names |
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| 04:48:14 | | Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection) |
| 04:48:44 | Llorean | More categories tends to mean a person needs to look in more places to find an option, unless it's *really* obvious from the category name what options are under it. |
| 04:48:45 | wpyh | the reason is that I find the settings menu too technical. |
| 04:49:01 | Llorean | What would be some example new categories, then? |
| 04:50:01 | wpyh | well, in "Sound Settings", I would add "Advanced Sound Settings" and put "Bass Cutoff", "Treble Cutoff", "Balance", "Channel Configuration", "Stereo Width", "Crossfeed" and "Dithering" in it |
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| 04:50:28 | wpyh | So "Sound Settings" will consist of "Bass", "Treble", "Volume, "Equalizer" and "Advanced Sound Settings" |
| 04:50:49 | Llorean | All that does is mean people need to click more things to get to them, though... |
| 04:51:02 | Llorean | How does having it in another level make Rockbox easier to use? |
| 04:51:05 | wpyh | I have done that, but I would still like to change the menu in other places, so I don't have a patch ready right now |
| 04:51:38 | | Join webguest96 [0] (n=47a20b8b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-5a2120cac14ecfe3) |
| 04:51:59 | wpyh | Yes, to get to the advanced sound settings, more clicks have to be made. But it makes Rockbox easier to use by not cluttering up the Sound Settings menu with options that people don |
| 04:52:06 | wpyh | *don't often use |
| 04:52:27 | Llorean | how does that make it easier to use? |
| 04:52:30 | webguest96 | is there any way to run rockbox on a sansa view |
| 04:52:36 | Llorean | Are their eyes going to wear out from seeing additional options? |
| 04:52:42 | Llorean | webguest96: No. |
| 04:53:59 | wpyh | It is more difficult to find a specific option in the Sound Settings menu if there are too many options there. Of course, one could look at the option names one by one, but in general people don't do that. |
| 04:53:59 | | Quit webguest96 (Client Quit) |
| 04:54:29 | wpyh | Now I don't condone laziness, but I think a more intuitive and user-friendly approach would be better. |
| 04:54:49 | Llorean | They have to read them anyway, at least until they get to the one they want. |
| 04:55:03 | Llorean | Assuming they look from the top down, having extras at the bottom wouldn't exactly get in the way. |
| 04:55:32 | wpyh | Yes, that would also be another option: put the most common options at the top, and the less common ones at the bottom. |
| 04:55:32 | Llorean | Not to mention it's more difficult to find the option once, while having to go through an extra menu is something you'd have to do every single time you want to change one of those values. |
| 04:56:16 | wpyh | Yes, but the settings in "Advanced Sound Settings" are not often changed. |
| 04:57:03 | wpyh | They are the settings that most people don't use on a regular basis. On the other hand, bass, treble, volume and eq are the things people usually want to change often. |
| 04:57:25 | | Nick Darksair is now known as iSuck (n=user@221.221.144.56) |
| 04:57:25 | Llorean | wpyh: People don't often change Volume. |
| 04:57:28 | Llorean | Or Bass/Treble. |
| 04:57:46 | Llorean | Heck, even the Equalizer should really only be changed when the output hardware is changed. |
| 04:58:21 | Llorean | All of that category are infrequently used options. |
| 04:58:40 | wpyh | Yeah, I have to admit that volume is actually not changed so often. But bass, treble and eq are very frequently changed, by most users. |
| 04:59:24 | Llorean | Why would they constantly change them? |
| 04:59:35 | | Join webguest49 [0] (n=47a20b8b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-15de0b0e7fd9171f) |
| 04:59:38 | Llorean | Are you sure you're not thinking "I change them frequently, so most users probably do"? |
| 04:59:42 | wpyh | Well, in theory the eq should be changed when the output hardware is changed, as you said. I myself don't use the eq (I set it to off), but people like to change the eq depending on the music. |
| 05:00 |
| 05:00:17 | webguest49 | will rockbox work with the ipod nano |
| 05:00:19 | ameyer | wpyh: I'd think people change volume a lot more than eq |
| 05:00:32 | ameyer | webguest49: which generation? |
| 05:00:35 | Llorean | ameyer: But almost never through the menu. |
| 05:00:40 | wpyh | A lot of users (at least those I see in other forums) like to get a different "experience" each time. |
| 05:00:46 | ameyer | Llorean: true |
| 05:01:31 | ameyer | webguest49: 1st generation works, 2nd through 4th doesn't and may never work due to Apple being evil and encrypting their firmware |
| 05:01:46 | webguest49 | will it work with the ipod classic |
| 05:01:50 | Llorean | wpyh: So basically, they don't want to hear the same song when they hear the same song? |
| 05:02:09 | ameyer | webguest49: same situation as the 2nd through 4th gen nanos |
| 05:02:14 | Llorean | wpyh: Most of the users I've read about in the forums tend to just pick a value and stick with it for bass/treble, and might change EQ based on genre if there's one named for their genre. |
| 05:02:37 | webguest49 | apple IS evil, thx |
| 05:02:40 | | Quit webguest49 (Client Quit) |
| 05:02:48 | Llorean | wpyh: As it stands though, I don't think you can definitively say those options are frequently used, and even if they are, having the other options merely be visible does not in any way make it more difficult to use them. |
| 05:02:55 | wpyh | Llorean: they want to set the eq to something today, and to something else tomorrow |
| 05:03:33 | | Quit blkhawk (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 05:03:46 | Llorean | I don't think things need to be optimized for uses other than they're intended. |
| 05:03:49 | wpyh | Llorean: so you're saying we are making it difficult for users by adding another level of menu? |
| 05:03:59 | | Nick blkhawk- is now known as blkhawk (n=blkhawk@g229212180.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 05:04:00 | Llorean | The expectation is that Sound Settings are intended as a "alter occasionally, most often when you switch outputs" |
| 05:04:37 | Llorean | wpyh: I'm saying that you make it difficult for users who want to make use of all the options if you add another layer, while leaving them on the same layer doesn't actually increase difficulty. |
| 05:04:59 | Llorean | Hiding it just makes it less likely people will even know the options exist. |
| 05:05:08 | Llorean | Some people won't consider "Balance" an advanced option, since it's offered by many devices. |
| 05:05:17 | Llorean | So they'll assume it's missing before even checking. etc, etc. |
| 05:06:28 | | Quit |AhIoRoS| ("Abandonando, see you http://ahioros.vidao2.com") |
| 05:07:36 | | Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 05:07:40 | wpyh | Hm... I think it's more of a tie here, and depending on where you look. For the more advanced users, I think having all those options available is good; for the regular user (like the regular PC user), they would only want to see Bass, Treble, Volume, and EQ. |
| 05:07:54 | ameyer | stupid question, if I got an iPod mini with a broken HD and did the CF mod on it, would I have any need for the OF? |
| 05:08:22 | ameyer | or is disk mode actually implemented in hardware? |
| 05:08:32 | Llorean | ameyer: It's implemented in software stored in ROM. |
| 05:08:41 | Llorean | wpyh: Rockbox is aimed at advanced users.... |
| 05:09:01 | Llorean | wpyh: You're pretty much advanced by default if you're flashing alternative firmwares on your consumer electronics. |
| 05:09:16 | wpyh | I don't consider it hiding, because the "Advanced Sound Settings" menu is right there. You do have a point in saying that leaving them on the same layer doesn't increase difficulty though, so we can also have them in the same layer but rearrange them. |
| 05:09:24 | wpyh | hm... |
| 05:09:49 | wpyh | I'm trying to make more people use Rockbox (WORLD DOMINATION) |
| 05:10:11 | Llorean | So you think people will see extra settings, say "oh no, it offers me more options than I expected" and not use it at all? |
| 05:10:24 | wpyh | I do understand that it would attract 1users though... |
| 05:10:35 | Llorean | How would hiding settings attract users, exactly? |
| 05:10:42 | Llorean | They won't know the settings are hidden until they've already installed it. |
| 05:10:57 | Llorean | Do you honestly believe people will then see extra settings and choose to stop using Rockbox because of them? |
| 05:11:09 | wpyh | no, that's not that I'm thinking. I'm thinking that the users would say "wow, it's too complicated. and ugly. I'll switch back to the OF". |
| 05:11:32 | wpyh | Yes, I think they would think the settings are too complicated, and stop using Rockbox because of it. |
| 05:11:55 | Llorean | If someone thinks it's complicated to *not use* options they don't know what do, they'll probably not get along well with Rockbox anyway. |
| 05:12:33 | wpyh | On the other hand, if we put the less often used settings in "Advanced Sound Settings", the average user would say "nah, that's too complicated for me. I'll just use the ones in the Sound Settings instead." |
| 05:12:50 | Llorean | Instead of "nah, those are too complicated for me, I'll just use the ones I know the name of"? |
| 05:12:57 | Llorean | Having them visible doesn't force anyone to try to use them. |
| 05:13:03 | wpyh | Llorean: you're probably alienating some people... |
| 05:13:46 | Llorean | You honestly believe we've turned people away because they were too stupid to say "Oh, there are options here I don't know about, I'll just ignore them." |
| 05:13:56 | Llorean | And instead got confused by them, and quit using the software? |
| 05:14:32 | wpyh | Llorean: no and yes. Yes: having them visible does not force anyone to try use them, but might scare them away. No: they would most likely see it as being non-user-friendly nad turn away from Rockbox altogether. |
| 05:14:43 | wpyh | Yes... |
| 05:14:46 | | Quit goffa_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 05:15:15 | Llorean | See, I can't rightfully make myself believe there are people who can't see a list of options, and then choose to only use the ones they want to use. |
| 05:15:29 | Llorean | More options isn't less user friendly as long as they can still easily find the options they DO want. |
| 05:15:43 | Llorean | It would be less user friendly if the "normal" options were hard to get to because of the advanced ones, sure. |
| 05:15:47 | wpyh | My goal is to retain all the advanced settings, because that's one of the things that makes Rockbox superior to the OF. But I would do it in a way that makes people feel right at home, in a way that's comfortable to them. |
| 05:15:49 | Llorean | But they're right there. |
| 05:16:34 | Llorean | wpyh: Your goal is to make Rockbox harder to use for intelligent people, while trying to attract people who'd apparently be happy enough with the original firmware anyway. |
| 05:17:01 | Llorean | If having extra options drives them away, I can't imagine they actually _wanted_ to use Rockbox in the first place. |
| 05:17:30 | wpyh | Yes, you're right about more options is not less user friendly, but they are mixed with the frequently-used options, so users who want to use the more frequently-used options would have to find the right option. They would have to scroll more, and it's not intuitive. |
| 05:17:42 | | Part SETH_HIKARU |
| 05:17:54 | Llorean | "Here's a list of options, let me scroll through to read it" isn't intuitive? |
| 05:18:08 | Llorean | Tell me, when you have a list of options, what does YOUR intuition tell you to do instead of looking at it? |
| 05:18:17 | | Quit n17ikh|Lappy () |
| 05:18:46 | wpyh | hm... my goal is not to make Rockbox harder to use for intelligent people. Yes, I would like to attact people who would be happy enough with the OF. I would like to be inclusive instead of exclusive. |
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| 05:19:08 | Llorean | You didn't answer my question about intuition. |
| 05:19:27 | Llorean | If you're going to call Rockbox "not intuitive" I really expect you to be able to explain what your intuition would have you do instead of what we have you do. |
| 05:20:08 | wpyh | Well, my intuition would be to scroll through it and see if anything interests me, or if anything might be useful to me. I do understand that more advanced users would want to think about (and actually use) each option. OTOH, less advanced users would think it's all too complicated to use. |
| 05:20:14 | wpyh | hey, I have slow fingers :p |
| 05:20:47 | Llorean | So, your intuition is to scroll through the list. |
| 05:20:50 | wpyh | yep |
| 05:20:51 | Llorean | We expect you to scroll through the list. |
| 05:20:54 | Llorean | How is that not intuitive? |
| 05:21:15 | wpyh | It's not un-intuitive for me. But it would be, for the average user. |
| 05:21:39 | Llorean | The average user would do what instead of scrolling, then? |
| 05:22:10 | wpyh | the average user would think it's all too complicated to use. then they would like Rockbox less. |
| 05:22:22 | Llorean | So their intuition, when given 8 options, is to give up? |
| 05:22:26 | Llorean | Not "read them"? |
| 05:22:40 | Llorean | I think if "read a few lines" is too difficult for them, they won't get past the install steps. |
| 05:23:48 | wpyh | I think it's like Linux. (forgive me for making an analogy) I used Slackware, and now I'm using my homegrown distro with an even more primitive package manager. I would never use Ubuntu. But I see that lots of Linux users (I wouldn't say most) use Ubuntu, Fedora, etc because they are more user-friendly and desktop-friendly. |
| 05:24:21 | Llorean | What does that have to do with "asking users to read 8 options"? |
| 05:24:34 | wpyh | Llorean: yes. and actually the install steps are too difficult to follow... but that's another topic. and I have never used rbutil, so I don't know how difficult it is to use. |
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| 05:25:15 | Llorean | wpyh: What kind of person would install an alternative firmware, then be overwhelmed by having 8 options instead of 4? |
| 05:25:27 | Llorean | I mean I'm thinking the person has to be nearly illiterate it 8 options is too much a strain to read... |
| 05:25:35 | wpyh | about the analogy? see, slackware gives you all the options you want, and you can and should use a text editor to edit those. No GUI configuration tools. Ubuntu hides them behind a GUI. |
| 05:26:02 | * | wpyh is actually seeing 12 options, but that's just a numbers issue |
| 05:26:34 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:26:36 | Llorean | Bass Cutoff and Treble Cutoff, at least, aren't on most targets. |
| 05:26:39 | wpyh | Basically, by adding another level, we can separate the rough controls and the fine controls + advanced controls |
| 05:26:40 | Llorean | So, 10ish |
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| 05:26:52 | Llorean | Yes, making it harder for a normal user to use. |
| 05:26:53 | wpyh | yeah |
| 05:26:59 | wpyh | uh? |
| 05:27:01 | Llorean | Separating the levels just adds complication |
| 05:27:20 | wpyh | yes, I do understand your argument about the extra level |
| 05:27:57 | wpyh | so I'm open to ideas... an alternative is to display the 4 basic sound settings, then display a separator line, then display the advanced settings. How about that? |
| 05:28:03 | Llorean | So your goal is to make the project less advanced-user / developer friendly and more "clueless user" friendly? |
| 05:28:24 | Llorean | A separator line doesn't do anything functional either. Why do they need to be distinguished at all? |
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| 05:29:22 | wpyh | Partially true. My goal is to make it more "clueless user" friendly, but not less "advanced user" friendly. The advanced user would be intelligent enough to open the submenu ;) |
| 05:29:38 | Llorean | Yes, but it takes him more time. |
| 05:29:48 | wpyh | A separator line would tell people that "The settings below this are advanced settings" |
| 05:30:00 | Llorean | No, it would tell a user "the settings below this are settings below this" |
| 05:30:14 | Llorean | If your users are too dumb to be able to read a full list of settings names, I doubt they'll instantly realize that's the "Advanced Settings" line. |
| 05:30:18 | wpyh | Llorean: depends on how you look at it. |
| 05:30:36 | Llorean | You seem to assume your users cannot read, but can fathom the intention of an apparently random line. |
| 05:30:40 | wpyh | Llorean: yes, so I'm still open to ideas, as I said. |
| 05:30:46 | Llorean | Meanwhile, all that line will do is make the screen _more_ full |
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| 05:30:53 | Llorean | Which, by your logic, should make it more overwhelming, not less. |
| 05:31:13 | Llorean | Here's an idea "don't add submenus, they're unnecessary and make the entire firmware harder to use" |
| 05:31:32 | Llorean | People can, at most, be overwhelmed the first time they enter the screen. |
| 05:31:34 | wpyh | Llorean: the line there would signal some kind of separator. and the user seeing the weird setting names under it would immediately realize they are in the wrong zone |
| 05:31:41 | Llorean | Submenus demand a cost every single time someone wishes to access those options. |
| 05:32:04 | Llorean | wpyh: If the user is intelligent enough to do that, they're intelligent enough to just not click on options they don't want to click on... |
| 05:33:07 | wpyh | Yes, it demands a cost. Since they are not that frequently used, they would entail a smaller cost than to have the average user read the whole list. |
| 05:33:29 | Llorean | I don't understand your statement there. |
| 05:33:32 | wpyh | Llorean: not all users are as smart as you think. Maybe what we perceive as "users" are different? |
| 05:33:35 | Llorean | The average user needs to read the list _once_ |
| 05:33:50 | Llorean | Then they know which options are there, and which ones they want to use. |
| 05:34:01 | Llorean | Meanwhile, the advanced user needs to go into that menu many times over the life of their player. |
| 05:34:33 | Llorean | So, how is the cost higher to the average user. If the list overwhelms them every single time they read it, I'd be impressed. |
| 05:34:58 | Llorean | wpyh: My basis for an "average" user is my mother. She has difficulty using computers, period, but is not afraid of an options menu. |
| 05:35:06 | wpyh | Yes: the average user would know which options are there. But that's beside the point. The long list would make it harder to scroll to the option they want. |
| 05:35:19 | Llorean | Not if it were sorted. |
| 05:35:28 | wpyh | Sorted according to what? |
| 05:35:59 | Llorean | Advanced options in the middle-ish, more common ones at the top and bottom (least clicks from starting point) |
| 05:36:08 | wpyh | :O |
| 05:36:29 | wpyh | (that's an emoticon of an astonished person, sorry) |
| 05:36:45 | Llorean | This benefits advanced users too, since overall they're most likely to use the same options and these technology-terrified users you seem to be targeting. |
| 05:36:50 | | Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 05:38:02 | wpyh | More common ones at the top and the advanced ones at the bottom would be more intuitive. Having common options at both ends is counter-intuitive, even though it is technically nearer to the top if you count the clicks |
| 05:38:32 | Llorean | You have to assume your clueless users will learn to use Rockbox after a short time |
| 05:38:48 | Llorean | Rockbox should be aimed at being easier to use once you learn how, even if that takes a small cost in making it harder to learn. |
| 05:38:59 | Llorean | Since, ideally, people will be using it for a very long time. |
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| 05:40:11 | wpyh | I think I can't assume that. I don't want to make people learn something like this. Instead, I want people to use Rockbox and find that it feels "easy to use, intuitive and feels just like my OF, but it has more advanced options should I ever need them. that's what makes it cool." |
| 05:40:14 | Llorean | Lowering the barrier of entry at the cost of total usability is a bad design choice, especially considering "get more users" is not a significant project goal. The intended audience is "people who can contribute" since that's what makes the project grow, and "people who can contribute" tend to be advanced users anyway. |
| 05:40:25 | | Quit flosco (Client Quit) |
| 05:40:26 | wpyh | hm... ok |
| 05:40:32 | wpyh | I can see that our premises are different |
| 05:41:21 | Llorean | Yes, but mine's the one that's actually set for the project. |
| 05:42:05 | wpyh | Yes, which is why I can't just make someone apply my patches... |
| 05:42:47 | Llorean | Maybe you should consider writing the patch in a way that accomplishes your goals _without_ sacrificing the goals of the project? |
| 05:42:52 | wpyh | I can only persuade people. If that fails, then I would have to accept that :) |
| 05:43:28 | Llorean | Instead of fighting against the project direction, why not try to work with it? |
| 05:43:33 | wpyh | Yes, that would be a good thing. I don't have any other ideas right now though... |
| 05:44:06 | wpyh | Llorean: I'm actually trying to work with it. However, all my ideas seem to be against the project direction you described. |
| 05:46:39 | wpyh | I didn't do it on purpose :P |
| 05:46:58 | Llorean | Just remember, the target audience is "more developers to help further improve things" not "masses of every day users" |
| 05:47:07 | Llorean | We'd like them, but not at the cost of what we consider usability. |
| 05:47:30 | wpyh | That's a very delicate balance. |
| 05:47:50 | Llorean | There's not much to balance. |
| 05:47:57 | wpyh | and I would actually have to learn what you consider usability. |
| 05:48:00 | Llorean | If we have to make a choice, we pick the one we think works best for us. |
| 05:48:41 | wpyh | the balance is "we'd like average users, but not at the cost of what we consder usability" |
| 05:48:46 | wpyh | OK |
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| 05:54:49 | wpyh | I think I would have to learn from the Linux menuconfig... they changed the organization significantly from 2.4 to 2.6, and I find 2.6's menuconfig a lot more easier to use. |
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| 06:00 |
| 06:01:03 | wpyh | seems some rb-related chat leaked into -community |
| 06:01:04 | | Quit Zarggg (Nick collision from services.) |
| 06:01:12 | | Nick Zarggg_ is now known as zarggg (n=zarggg@65-78-69-194.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) |
| 06:01:17 | wpyh | the problem with rb's usb is that it's unstable on my ipod video (and nano) |
| 06:01:22 | | Nick zarggg is now known as Zarggg (n=zarggg@65-78-69-194.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) |
| 06:01:40 | scorche | define "unstable |
| 06:01:58 | wpyh | for some unknown reason, sometimes it would happen that plugging in the usb cable would only charge. this is not easily reproducible. |
| 06:02:27 | | Join ajonat [0] (n=ajonat@190.48.120.169) |
| 06:02:51 | wpyh | some other problems: 1) file transfer is slower than with the OF, 2) charging time is longer, 3) I don't remember exactly when, but I think I encountered a file transfer error once |
| 06:03:52 | | Quit Zarggg (Client Quit) |
| 06:04:02 | Llorean | None of those, except maybe #3, are stability issues. |
| 06:04:15 | Llorean | And I'm pretty sure you can get the OF to only charge if you plug in the cable too slowly too. |
| 06:04:56 | wpyh | hm... I'll try thta |
| 06:04:57 | wpyh | *that |
| 06:06:13 | wpyh | Llorean: I'm saying that: |
| 06:06:13 | wpyh | 1. plugging in the usb cable is a stability issue |
| 06:06:13 | wpyh | 2. slow file transfer is a problem, but I didn't say it's a stability issue |
| 06:06:13 | DBUG | Sent KICK wpyh to server |
| 06:06:13 | wpyh | 3. long charging time is a problem but it's not a stability issue either |
| 06:06:13 | wpyh | 4. a file transfer error is a problem |
| 06:06:14 | Kick | (#rockbox wpyh :No flooding!) by logbot!n=bjst@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-507a9318582de8ba |
| 06:06:46 | | Join wpyh [0] (n=william@123.151.132.200) |
| 06:11:00 | Bawitdaba | the rockbox wiki doesnt specifically say what the default or ideal albumart size is it hints at 100x100 tho or is that too big? |
| 06:11:13 | lol3izer | ideal is 100x100 |
| 06:11:23 | lol3izer | SOME wpses can handle 200x200 |
| 06:11:35 | Bawitdaba | what if its like 128x128 |
| 06:11:41 | lol3izer | no it will be clipped |
| 06:11:49 | Bawitdaba | hrm ok |
| 06:11:50 | lol3izer | just use the methods it suggests to generate them |
| 06:11:52 | lol3izer | its very easy |
| 06:12:06 | Llorean | lol3izer: Ask what player he has first. |
| 06:12:12 | ameyer | there is a patch to allow scaled album art |
| 06:12:23 | Bawitdaba | lol its an ipod video 80g |
| 06:12:25 | ameyer | doesn't seem to like to apply cleanly, though |
| 06:12:33 | lol3izer | Llorean, sorry, i was assuming a larger screen model |
| 06:12:44 | ameyer | or I'm horrible at patching |
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| 06:13:20 | | Quit bmbl ("Woah!") |
| 06:13:35 | Bawitdaba | well i dont have coverart for everything i was going to use a 3rd party app like cover art downloader but i want to make sure its sized right |
| 06:14:37 | | Quit lol3izer_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 06:16:27 | Llorean | Bawitdaba: The right album art size to use depends entirely on the WPS you choose, each one has a different expected maximum size. |
| 06:16:50 | Bawitdaba | hrm ok |
| 06:16:54 | lol3izer | most wps's on the ipod 5.5 expect 100x100 |
| 06:16:59 | lol3izer | some are at 200x200 |
| 06:17:04 | lol3izer | other sizes are rare |
| 06:17:18 | Bawitdaba | yeah and even if i could prolly change the wps to 100x100 |
| 06:17:19 | lol3izer | just pick one you like and work from that |
| 06:17:21 | Llorean | lol3izer: Still, he should simply check what the WPS expects rather than trying randomly |
| 06:17:34 | lol3izer | Llorean, lol ;) |
| 06:17:50 | lol3izer | we both said the same thing at the same time :P |
| 06:19:09 | Bawitdaba | %Cl|0|0|s100|s100| |
| 06:19:12 | Bawitdaba | :P |
| 06:19:38 | Llorean | 100 by 100, as you can see, then. |
| 06:19:56 | Bawitdaba | yeah the manual is nice |
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| 06:32:27 | | Join hasmind [0] (n=hasmind@ppp-39-9.grapevine.net.au) |
| 06:33:26 | | Part kugel |
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| 06:36:11 | | Join m0f0x [0] (n=m0f0x@189-47-54-149.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 06:36:38 | | Join Skail [0] (n=user@static24-72-51-82.regina.accesscomm.ca) |
| 06:38:56 | Skail | what are my chances of being able to build with gcc3.4.5 ? |
| 06:39:45 | Llorean | Skail: You're not mentioning what target you're building for. |
| 06:39:57 | Llorean | And why don't you just use the right version? |
| 06:40:26 | Skail | Llorean: for arm-elf (sansa c200).. and because I can't seem to get a working gcc4 cross compiler |
| 06:40:34 | scorche | Skail: the rockboxdev.sh script makes getting the cross compilers installed very easy |
| 06:41:17 | | Quit Wictor_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 06:41:23 | Skail | scorche: I'd prefer to stick with the gentoo tools.. sometimes "3rd party" things don't play nice with portage |
| 06:41:28 | | Join Wictor [0] (n=Wictor@0x57366a52.bynxx19.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 06:41:42 | Skail | but then, they aren't currently building me a crosscompiler, so.... |
| 06:41:51 | scorche | Skail: better than nothing? |
| 06:42:16 | Llorean | Skail: If your linux distro won't allow you to build your own copies of things from source, you might consider picking one that offers you a little more flexibility and freedom... |
| 06:43:06 | lol3izer | you can do custom ebuilds pretty easily |
| 06:43:12 | Skail | Llorean: uhh...... it most certainly WILL allow me to, but I prefer to do things like that within portage, because it tracks things for me... easy uninstall and easy to know what is and isn't on my system |
| 06:44:04 | lol3izer | Skail, you might want to consider LD_PRELOD_PATH and the fact that all unix software is naturally portable |
| 06:44:06 | Llorean | Skail: Well, Rockbox more or less requires specific GCC versions to work reliably. |
| 06:44:14 | lol3izer | in the sense it dosent matter where it is running from |
| 06:44:39 | scorche | Skail: and if portage wont do the job, but a "third party tool" which is an open perl script does? |
| 06:44:41 | lol3izer | you could even do a chroot if you dont wanna muck around alot |
| 06:44:57 | scorche | s/perl// |
| 06:45:29 | Skail | lol3izer: yeah, chroot might be the way to go.. I dunno what LD_PRELOAD_PATH is, though |
| 06:46:36 | lol3izer | Skail, it allows you to speficy an alternate place to load libaries from |
| 06:47:02 | Skail | lol3izer: I don't really grok gcc well enough to use that effectively. |
| 06:47:03 | lol3izer | so if the gcc 4 version requires conflicting libraries |
| 06:47:04 | lol3izer | or something |
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| 06:50:23 | | Quit hasmind ("Leaving") |
| 06:50:36 | Skail | meh, I guess I'll bite the bullet and use the rockboxdev script.... not like its going to clobber anything existing.. |
| 06:50:54 | Dhraakellian | just saw the news on fsdaily. congrats on the release! |
| 06:51:06 | scorche | Skail: in fact, it doesnt even add anything to your path ;) |
| 06:51:58 | Dhraakellian | ...a week late seeing the news |
| 06:52:05 | Skail | I wonder if it might confuse the gcc-config tool |
| 06:52:45 | Bawitdaba | theres a lot of album art programs on the rb wiki, but is there any that you guys know of that will download and resize art to a cover.bmp recursively for each folder/album |
| 06:52:49 | Skail | I don't even want to build rockbox itself - just need to write a plugin :) |
| 06:53:21 | scorche | Skail: all it does is build the crosscompilers for you...what you do with them after (typically people just add to their PATH) is up to you |
| 07:00 |
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| 07:02:33 | Skail | oh, for the love of........... |
| 07:03:14 | Skail | joy.... turns out the past 3 hours I've spent fighting with the crosscompiler were wasted.. |
| 07:03:33 | Skail | I already had it set up |
| 07:03:52 | Skail | just forgot where it was... probably because it was non-portage |
| 07:04:05 | Bawitdaba | gentoo ftw |
| 07:04:12 | Skail | d'oh |
| 07:04:23 | scorche | Bawitdaba: and why is that necessary? |
| 07:19:33 | | Quit Skail ("Concoction recent by Pier.") |
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| 07:20:58 | | Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection) |
| 07:21:49 | blueorblack | I'm having a bit of an issue with my ipod, wmp isn't seeing it as a sync device |
| 07:21:58 | | Part Dhraakellian ("Meddle not in the affairs of ircops, for they are (not so) subtle, and quick to anger.") |
| 07:22:31 | blueorblack | i've enabled disk use and all and i can see it in explorer but not in wmp |
| 07:22:54 | Llorean | blueorblack: That's a question to ask those who provide support for WMP |
| 07:23:04 | scorche | blueorblack: that sint really a rockbox issue |
| 07:23:05 | Llorean | Your iPod is still an iPod, and WMP probably chooses not to sync with them. |
| 07:23:26 | | Quit goffa (Remote closed the connection) |
| 07:25:17 | | Quit blueorblack ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 07:26:37 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 07:31:18 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 07:32:41 | SoulSeeker | hi anyone with sansa e200 series mp3 player? |
| 07:33:15 | SoulSeeker | I just did a headphone repair.. I broke off a resistor on the lower left, put a glob of solder, and now stereo works again.. |
| 07:33:36 | devslashnull | is there anything i can do to improve rockbox's speed when going thru the menu system. i get lags pretty often |
| 07:33:52 | scorche | devslashnull: i take it that you have an ipod video? |
| 07:34:04 | devslashnull | yea |
| 07:34:04 | scorche | SoulSeeker: did you have a question? |
| 07:34:10 | devslashnull | is that a known issue ? |
| 07:34:21 | SoulSeeker | yes. it seems sansa e200 has very unreliable headphone jack.. |
| 07:34:28 | SoulSeeker | the soldering point seems to come off.. |
| 07:34:34 | | Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) |
| 07:34:40 | SoulSeeker | there are a lot on ebay with broken headjack.. |
| 07:34:41 | devslashnull | scorche ? |
| 07:34:57 | scorche | SoulSeeker: yup...many DAPs have this issue, though sansas seem especially fragile |
| 07:35:10 | SoulSeeker | I am glad I somehow fixed the one I bought on ebay for $15... but I was wondering what was that small resistor that I broke off accidentally |
| 07:35:50 | scorche | devslashnull: well, the ipod videos are not very fast due to its screen (lots of overhead)...do you notice a large improvement when playing music? |
| 07:36:03 | SoulSeeker | it was nearly accidental i fixed thsi thing... but any idea what was that resistor connected to the headphone jack pin? |
| 07:36:10 | devslashnull | scorcheno not really |
| 07:36:33 | devslashnull | scorche in fact theres a lag when pausig a song or exiting the "now playing" screen |
| 07:37:32 | SoulSeeker | anyone? I was surprised to see that mp3 player still working without a resistor... :-? |
| 07:42:57 | SoulSeeker | anyways, I also own another sansa e260.. very cheap, good sound, compatible with rockbox.. |
| 07:43:42 | SoulSeeker | but the screen is very fragile, the battery doesn't last long, and the proporiety cable is very hard to replace (the ones sold in Ebay stop working after few months)... |
| 07:44:08 | SoulSeeker | i guess I will be getting iriver next time. :( |
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| 08:00 |
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| 08:19:24 | | Join happosade [0] (n=happosad@cs181163186.pp.htv.fi) |
| 08:19:47 | happosade | Hello |
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| 08:35:18 | GodEater | lord this 3.0 release has brought some clots :) |
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| 09:00 |
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| 09:02:44 | | Nick Bagderr is now known as B4gder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 09:04:35 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
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| 09:16:12 | homielowe | another rockbox article from lifehacker http://lifehacker.com/5056370/breathe-new-life-into-your-aging-mp3-player-with-rockbox |
| 09:17:00 | GodEater | seen it |
| 09:17:58 | * | Llorean is glad the default made it into his list of favorite themes. |
| 09:18:33 | | Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 09:18:56 | SoulSeeker | I am using Rockbox 3.0 on my sansa.. good job. |
| 09:19:21 | SoulSeeker | the windows installer was easy to use (though the skin downloading doesn't work yet) |
| 09:19:43 | scorche | SoulSeeker: it isnt meant to |
| 09:19:55 | SoulSeeker | ic. |
| 09:20:09 | SoulSeeker | anyways, no one had broken headjack problem with sansa? |
| 09:20:19 | scorche | lots of people have... |
| 09:20:44 | SoulSeeker | how do people usually fix it? |
| 09:21:00 | scorche | it depends on what is broken, but i thought you already fixed it |
| 09:21:05 | SoulSeeker | also, any idea what was the resistor connected to the headphone jack pin? |
| 09:21:16 | SoulSeeker | just curious. |
| 09:21:26 | SoulSeeker | i ordered another broken E200 from ebay. :) |
| 09:22:11 | scorche | it could be a few things |
| 09:22:23 | | Quit happosade (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 09:24:21 | SoulSeeker | thus far, no apparent negative effect. i wonder if the resistor is to prevent battery train through head phones.. |
| 09:24:33 | amiconn | petur: YOur commit still won't work, if I don't overlook something |
| 09:24:46 | amiconn | Iiuc the #ifdefs introduced in pcm-pp.c also need fixing |
| 09:24:50 | * | petur sighs |
| 09:25:13 | scorche | SoulSeeker: no apparent difference in volume?...resistors are cheap anyway |
| 09:25:15 | | Quit Acksaw (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 09:25:44 | SoulSeeker | scorche, it's extremely tiny. 1.5mm.. my soldering skill isn't good enough :( oh well. |
| 09:25:52 | petur | amiconn: well spotted :/ |
| 09:26:14 | scorche | i wouldnt call that extremely tiny, but /shrug |
| 09:26:38 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 09:26:52 | homielowe | Soulseeker: might be one of these http://hackaday.com/2008/09/29/parts-01uf-decoupling-capacitors/ |
| 09:27:18 | scorche | homielowe: why did you link that? |
| 09:28:13 | SoulSeeker | homielowe, that looks like it.. the tiny ones.. |
| 09:28:20 | scorche | homielowe: you do know that is talking about power supply regulation, right? |
| 09:28:35 | scorche | SoulSeeker: it looks like any other SMD resistors |
| 09:28:43 | scorche | homielowe: that is even a capacitor...not a resistor.. |
| 09:29:16 | SoulSeeker | heh.. not much skills here. :( |
| 09:29:41 | * | homielowe goes to the corner |
| 09:30:31 | amiconn | soap: What's up with your build server? |
| 09:32:17 | scorche | ruining our nice greenness =/ |
| 09:32:38 | | Join fragilematter [0] (n=barbu_do@92.81.250.158) |
| 09:34:04 | B4gder | I guess I should disable sims on his host until resolved |
| 09:35:23 | petur | wow... we have 20 buildservers already... |
| 09:35:26 | B4gder | the new host by Nimdae seems to run fine |
| 09:36:16 | B4gder | yeah, 20 working hosts |
| 09:36:24 | B4gder | I think there are a few currently unavailable too |
| 09:37:18 | GodEater | xen is fast =/ |
| 09:39:19 | B4gder | I think I'll try disabling lostlogix's host |
| 09:39:37 | B4gder | at least for sims |
| 09:40:17 | GodEater | oh god, tell me interix comes with a bash shell somewhere |
| 09:42:56 | | Join klos [0] (i=hans@60-241-220-105.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:43:09 | klos | are there screenshots availabe for the new version 3.0 |
| 09:43:10 | klos | ? |
| 09:43:26 | GodEater | klos: all the way through the WpsGallery |
| 09:43:26 | n1s | amiconn: I got gcc4.3.0 to build a working rockbox for h300, it required a couple of tweaks to the rockbox code and some linker scripts though, and had a few issues. 1) it didn't like the inline asm in libmad when using O2, worked with O1 though, In tremor a wrong assembler bug was triggered (which i reported but it hasn't been fixed yet, it is probably present but latent in earlier versions too) |
| 09:43:33 | B4gder | klos: the manual? |
| 09:43:49 | klos | havent checked it :) |
| 09:45:23 | | Join DerDome [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-248-198.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:45:27 | klos | ah ok thx, do you guys think it will be possible someday to use .cue files along with mp3 for live sets or mixes ? |
| 09:45:43 | scorche | klos: rockbox supports cue files |
| 09:45:51 | klos | ah really |
| 09:45:57 | klos | haha i havent checked rockbox for ages |
| 09:46:00 | klos | sweet :) |
| 09:46:07 | klos | thx |
| 09:46:08 | n1s | preliminary tests with gcc4.3 showed about no performance change in mad, a sizable regression in Tremor and a major speedup i aac (this was before the mdct unification so might not apply anymore) |
| 09:51:03 | | Join tucoz [0] (i=528612c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-641ffab3d9f6bc89) |
| 09:51:11 | n1s | (if anyone is interested the wrong asm bug is #35018 in gcc bugzilla) |
| 09:52:30 | tucoz | Bagder: hi. shouldn't there be a link to the 3.0 manual from the manual page linked from the side menu? |
| 09:53:28 | B4gder | probably, yes |
| 09:54:11 | B4gder | the site is in svn you know ;-) |
| 09:54:21 | * | B4gder fixes |
| 09:54:33 | tucoz | aha. how cool. didn't know that |
| 09:55:53 | B4gder | it just doesn't update automatically |
| 09:56:25 | tucoz | B4gder: I have to congratulate you for being persistent in getting this release out. feels great now, and with very positive response overall. |
| 09:56:51 | B4gder | yeah, I think that despite the problems it has it was a good thing to get out |
| 09:57:00 | tucoz | yep. for sure |
| 09:58:02 | tucoz | i guess it makes further releases less intimidating... |
| 09:58:35 | tucoz | back to work. see you |
| 09:58:37 | | Part tucoz |
| 09:58:53 | B4gder | I think we should make a checklist for the next release |
| 09:59:13 | B4gder | of things to have fixed and done before we announce it |
| 09:59:30 | GodEater | great idea |
| 09:59:38 | * | GodEater volunteers B4gder to make such a list |
| 09:59:43 | B4gder | yay! |
| 09:59:48 | * | B4gder feels selected |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:45 | B4gder | it would be nice to have the themes site up for 3.1 |
| 10:01:44 | pixelma | now, all we need is that *someone* to do the work ;) |
| 10:02:07 | * | B4gder looks around for someone |
| 10:02:26 | GodEater | I thought I saw him hiding around the corner a while back |
| 10:04:14 | n1s | soo, on a slightly related matter what would be the correct version to use for the new ipod bootloaders, and what is the clean way to set APPSVERSION? (ipods seem by far the most cf modded targets so I think we/I should focus on getting these up on the download site soon, very little interest in the bootloaders though :( |
| 10:05:19 | * | scorche peeks out from around his corner |
| 10:05:26 | linuxstb | n1s: co-incidentally, I think it's "v3" according to http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/tags/ |
| 10:05:49 | n1s | linuxstb: aha!, nice :) |
| 10:07:01 | linuxstb | I _think_ you just do "VERSION=v3 make" |
| 10:07:36 | linuxstb | Or maybe "make VERSION=v3"... (or maybe they are equivalent...) |
| 10:08:32 | | Quit DerDome ("Leaving.") |
| 10:08:52 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 10:09:17 | | Quit at0m|c (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:12:38 | RyoS | Llorean gevaerts: original firmware doesnt hold up to 10h :/ |
| 10:12:48 | RyoS | morning first :) |
| 10:13:31 | B4gder | linuxstb: I think they are equivalent |
| 10:14:50 | | Quit m0f0x (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:14:57 | | Part fragilematter |
| 10:16:27 | n1s | B4gder, linuxstb: interestingly 'make VERSION=v3' seems to have worked, the r18xxx-3.0-08xxxx string was replaced by v3 but 'VERSION=v3 make' didn't, anyways, I'm building a batch now :) |
| 10:17:16 | B4gder | cool, do you have a script to build the entire set? |
| 10:17:23 | n1s | no... |
| 10:17:29 | linuxstb | n1s: I _think_ this is the script I used to build the last set of ipod bootloaders - note that I used "VERSION=2.0". http://www.pastebin.ca/1214531 |
| 10:18:16 | n1s | linuxstb: thanks, will go with 3.0 then, even nicer match :) |
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| 10:19:06 | Llorean | RyoS: So you've either got a bad battery, or a bad player. |
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| 10:20:32 | RyoS | Llorean: soudns like the players fault.. |
| 10:20:50 | RyoS | i wonder if cowon could have a look at it "now".. |
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| 10:28:21 | n1s | linuxstb: worked very nicely :) |
| 10:29:21 | n1s | should they be retested (after amiconn's changes on the branch) or are we confident they will work? :) |
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| 10:29:35 | linuxstb | I would say they definitely need testing... |
| 10:29:40 | linuxstb | It's easy to break bootloaders |
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| 10:32:16 | n1s | ok, uploaded new ipod bootloaders in FS #9369 |
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| 12:03:11 | orly_owl | What's the biggest memory card the Ondio can take? |
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| 12:34:56 | RyoS | does it make any sense to compile gcc 4.x for m68k targets? |
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| 12:41:23 | vitja | gevaerts: hi. can you take a look at patch, that tries to solve ep problem ftp://localhost/vitja/xx.diff? |
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| 12:43:30 | funman | do you mean ftp://79.120.98.174/vitja/xx.diff ? :) |
| 12:44:05 | vitja | yeah, sorry |
| 12:44:49 | funman | $ echo 79.120.98.174 localhost >> /etc/hosts |
| 12:45:44 | vitja | hmm I just tested link with lftp and copy-pasted path |
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| 12:59:31 | gevaerts | vitja: I've got the file. I'll have a look later today (promise!) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:01:30 | funman | where are the interrupts handled in rockbox code ? |
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| 13:20:29 | vitja_ | gevaerts: are you here? |
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| 13:41:33 | gevaerts | vitja_: yes |
| 13:41:44 | vitja_ | gevaerts: have you seen patch? |
| 13:42:07 | gevaerts | vitja: I've got the file. I'll have a look later today |
| 13:42:57 | funman | vitja_: beware, the promise he made when you were offline is now gone ! |
| 13:43:08 | vitja_ | ok |
| 13:43:37 | gevaerts | funman: bertrik told me to tell you about sg3-utils |
| 13:44:03 | funman | thanks, I'm looking what it is about |
| 13:44:25 | | Join Schmogel [0] (n=Miranda@p3EE21737.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:44:26 | funman | tools for working with generic scsi devices |
| 13:45:33 | gevaerts | yes. You may be able to use them to send data to a scsi/usb block device even if it reports wrong numbers of blocks |
| 13:45:50 | funman | oh, that's for my bricked clip then |
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| 14:06:19 | kugel | funman: bricked clip???? |
| 14:06:27 | kugel | thought you have a new one |
| 14:06:33 | kugel | or do you have both? |
| 14:06:58 | funman | I only replaced the 2nd one i bricked |
| 14:07:11 | kugel | ah ok |
| 14:07:11 | funman | the first one is opened, battery removed, and I just copied a firmware to it with sg_dd |
| 14:07:21 | funman | now let's plug back the lcd and pray ! |
| 14:08:36 | funman | you didn't pray hard enough :/ |
| 14:08:49 | kugel | sorry :( |
| 14:13:24 | kugel | anyone with a gigabeat s online? |
| 14:15:11 | funman | J-23: what do you mean with 'direct access' ? |
| 14:19:25 | J-23 | s/*/access the on-board ROM via USB/ |
| 14:19:31 | funman | no |
| 14:19:49 | funman | we can only write to it when doing a firmware upgrade |
| 14:20:33 | J-23 | how does recovery mode work on v2's? |
| 14:21:19 | funman | on e200 you can access (read/write) the whole firmware file by usb if you disable manually the NAND (shorting 2 pins together) |
| 14:21:56 | funman | on other models, we implement recovery in the very first stages of the software we execute (resume OF is a button is pressed or usb connection is detected) |
| 14:23:10 | funman | I'm now trying some scsi generic tools as suggested by bertrik but with limited hope |
| 14:23:16 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@195.167.65.108) |
| 14:23:40 | funman | interestingly, I hadn't noticed that my clip is detected as 2 usb mass storage devices (0 blocks each) |
| 14:26:54 | kugel | funman: afair my previous fuze was deteced as 2 devices, 1 of which was 0 block |
| 14:27:11 | kugel | when I shorted the nand that is |
| 14:27:14 | funman | the 2nd device's block size is not listed in dmesg |
| 14:30:18 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:30:40 | kugel | funman: do you know how far atomic came with his sd investiigation? |
| 14:30:49 | funman | which one? |
| 14:30:53 | kugel | sd interface |
| 14:30:59 | kugel | to access the nand |
| 14:31:00 | funman | disassembly |
| 14:31:02 | | Part LinusN |
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| 14:35:05 | funman | kugel: do you run windows ? |
| 14:36:34 | kugel | funman: How do you mean? |
| 14:36:39 | kugel | I run it on my pc |
| 14:37:13 | funman | that's what I asked - could you try shorting the nand pins and running the official sansa firmware updater ? |
| 14:37:33 | funman | I don't remember if I used it on my clip when it was bricked - and now I deleted the virtual machine I used |
| 14:37:33 | kugel | uh |
| 14:37:53 | linuxstb | amiconn: Do you know how Interix compares in speed to Linux in a vm? |
| 14:38:21 | kugel | the fuze has a very sensible connection between the wheel and the board. It's likely I break it again when I open my fuze |
| 14:38:35 | funman | kugel: ah right I remember you broke it - then forget about it :) |
| 14:38:49 | kugel | I have a new one |
| 14:38:55 | kugel | fully working |
| 14:40:22 | kugel | still, I don't really want to open it again. And I'm really doubtful that the updater can see it (and do something useful with it?) |
| 14:40:29 | kugel | s/?// |
| 14:41:27 | funman | I'll ask atomicpunk |
| 14:41:38 | funman | I also doubt that it does anything |
| 14:43:06 | | Part B4gder |
| 14:48:12 | funman | most of the scsi commands I try fail, but I can make the device hang, so it has some effect at least ;) |
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| 14:52:29 | RyoS | Llorean: ping |
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| 15:00 |
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| 15:07:46 | XavierGr | linuxstb: the problem with vm in a multicore system is that it doesn't use all the available cores, so if interix is 2x-5x faster than cygwin it should be faster than linux in a vm |
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| 15:10:43 | funman | kugel: only the first device seems to be really a mass storage (sg_readcap fails on the 2nd) |
| 15:11:22 | funman | well the 2nd device reports that it's not ready |
| 15:11:45 | amiconn | XavierGr: I'm on single core though (and VMware can use 2 cores in one VM if you tell it to) |
| 15:13:03 | XavierGr | amiconn: that was my problem, I have a 4 core cpu and I couldn't make vmware to use them all |
| 15:13:26 | XavierGr | amiconn: so can someone use interix to compile rockbox now? |
| 15:13:36 | funman | what about separate networked VMs and distcc ? |
| 15:13:57 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 15:15:05 | XavierGr | amiconn: also did you get interix downloading the entire SFU that microsoft provides or did you find it separately |
| 15:22:05 | | Join meven [0] (n=meven@lav35-1-82-236-137-162.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:25:11 | funman | nothing meaningful with sg_utils |
| 15:25:38 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: hey! :) |
| 15:26:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Good morning (or afternoon)! :) |
| 15:26:37 | kugel | afternoon, rather |
| 15:26:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | What's the good word on your Gigabeast backlight fading? |
| 15:26:48 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:28:21 | gevaerts | funman: does sg_dd check the device capacity before writing? If so, you could try changing it to really only do the writes |
| 15:28:35 | funman | it doesn't |
| 15:28:47 | * | funman hopes |
| 15:29:29 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: well, I've done a bit. It could work now |
| 15:29:37 | funman | a linux bug(?) makes it report device's blocks number as 1 minimum even if the device said 0, and the 1st block isn't even copied |
| 15:30:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Want to post it to Flyspray? It'll get more exposure that way. |
| 15:30:19 | LambdaCalculus37 | Plus, I can't do anything from work. :( |
| 15:30:40 | kugel | oh |
| 15:31:05 | kugel | what can you do if I build for you? |
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| 15:32:48 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Won't be able to do much right now. |
| 15:33:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Post the patch on FS, and I'll go and get it when I can get a little free time. |
| 15:34:01 | kugel | so, you can't extract a zip on your player and take 2 min to see if backlight is working? sad |
| 15:34:08 | gevaerts | funman: are you using /dev/sdX or /dev/sgX? I think sg_dd still goes through the kernel for /dev/sdX |
| 15:34:33 | funman | sg |
| 15:35:04 | funman | and I explicit the device file |
| 15:35:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Tell you what.. make the build and email me the zip. |
| 15:35:31 | funman | some (very little) information is correctly reported, load/start commands are successful, the device is ready |
| 15:35:40 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: how about uploading to my webspace? |
| 15:35:45 | funman | but I can't read/copy anything |
| 15:36:00 | funman | I think sandisk somehow disabled that feature |
| 15:36:01 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Okay. |
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| 15:38:49 | funman | hum the sansaV2 OF enables the "timer2 clock" |
| 15:39:01 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/forlambda/rockbox.zip |
| 15:39:13 | funman | and now that I read the code handling interrupts, it seems that we have to handle interrupts for said 'timer2' |
| 15:39:45 | kugel | in order to? |
| 15:40:01 | funman | so maybe the interrupts are handled by the OF, and since it's in an uninitialized state, the interrupt handler may return without actually handling it |
| 15:40:02 | | Quit Dementio (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:40:07 | funman | kugel: no idea |
| 15:40:57 | amiconn | XavierGr: The full thing, plus a few hotfixes, plus another big package from suacommunity.com |
| 15:40:57 | | Join fragilematter [0] (n=barbu_do@92.83.226.58) |
| 15:41:22 | amiconn | And no, it is not yet possible to use Interix for building rockbox, but I'm working on it |
| 15:43:03 | funman | kugel: firmware/target/arm/system-pp502x.c line 47/48 |
| 15:43:21 | petur | XavierGr: why not use VirtualBox? I think it uses all CPUs... |
| 15:44:13 | funman | TIMER2_VAL; /* ACK interrupt */ |
| 15:44:26 | funman | does it mean to acknowledge the interrupt, one just has to read said register ? |
| 15:45:56 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Still independent of the brightness setting. I can't do much else right now because my beast needs a charging... again. |
| 15:45:58 | kugel | petur: it didn't when I used it (v1.6) |
| 15:46:08 | petur | oh? |
| 15:46:27 | petur | well the manual says nothing about it... |
| 15:46:29 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: does it still go to max brightness on fading down? |
| 15:46:54 | XavierGr | petur: unfortunately cygwin in the end is less hassle than any virtual machine |
| 15:47:02 | kugel | petur: the vm didn't even see the second core, so... |
| 15:47:05 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I didn't notice because my beast shut off while I was testing. |
| 15:47:15 | kugel | :( |
| 15:47:20 | * | petur gets the latest version and tries |
| 15:48:14 | XavierGr | and if a virtual machine doesn't use all the cores I could just use cygwin and loose a little speed |
| 15:48:35 | amiconn | funman: This is correct for PP. Other SoCs probably most behave differently, mabye very differently |
| 15:48:54 | XavierGr | I remember cygwin at 4 cores vs vmware at 2 cores was significant due to ccache but in the end I opted for cygwin once again |
| 15:49:10 | amiconn | XavierGr: A little? Building the crosscompilers on Interix was 2times...7times (!) faster than on cygwin... |
| 15:49:17 | XavierGr | (and I am not compiling all the time so waiting 30 seconds more is not the end of the world) |
| 15:49:29 | XavierGr | amiconnn: I am talking about cygwin vs vmware |
| 15:49:53 | XavierGr | I haven't tryid interix yet, it sounds promising and I wait impatiently for your work :P |
| 15:50:01 | funman | amiconn: yes, for as3525 it seems we have to write in a specific register |
| 15:50:09 | amiconn | Yes, and I think Interix and VMware+linux will be about the same speed on the same hardware |
| 15:50:53 | funman | from a hardware point of view, I understand that I would just have to clear the interrupt. |
| 15:51:21 | funman | hm I'll read the datasheet in details before making assumptions :) |
| 15:52:50 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: The other reason why I wanted you to post the patch on Flyspray is so I can take a look at it as well. |
| 15:53:24 | | Part J-23 |
| 15:53:26 | kugel | I really didn't change much |
| 15:53:52 | * | kugel doesn't want to upload a known-to-not-work patch :S |
| 15:53:58 | petur | kugel: VirtualBox shows the guest only one CPU but schedules its execution across all CPU's (so says http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=2435 ) |
| 15:54:28 | petur | jugel: erm, use all cores for its I/O tasks |
| 15:54:33 | petur | *kugel |
| 15:54:45 | kugel | petur: I used make -j, and never got above 50% cpu usage in the host (XP) |
| 15:55:06 | funman | only for IO |
| 15:55:42 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Just tell people that it's still rather kludgey. |
| 15:55:52 | LambdaCalculus37 | Besides, someone with a beast can help work on it. |
| 15:56:32 | | Join J-23 [0] (i=aldwulf@a187.net131.okay.pl) |
| 15:56:37 | funman | ah no, reading further shows that it should use all cores |
| 15:58:28 | | Join Dementio [0] (n=dementio@211.45.234.45) |
| 15:58:35 | amiconn | No virtualiser can magically combine cores |
| 15:59:44 | amiconn | So if the guest sees only one core, it effectively uses only one core. It can use further cores for asynchronous tasks like I/O though |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:49 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: okokok |
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| 16:09:04 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: did |
| 16:09:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I'll take a look through the patch and see if maybe I can zero in on the problem. |
| 16:11:18 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: I don't understand why it's still ignoring the backlight setting. backlight_brightness initialized with the default brightness, but always modified within _backlight_set_brightness (which is supposed to be called when you change the setting) |
| 16:13:16 | kugel | apart from that, beast should be able to use real pwn fading |
| 16:19:37 | jhMikeS | beast bl fading? I tried to use that but the HW fading really kind of well, sucks. it doesn't reverse the cycle in the middle of a fade. |
| 16:20:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | jhMikeS: Hey there! Want to take a look at FS #6800? |
| 16:20:30 | jhMikeS | I could have done something wrong of course but I wasn't too encouraged. |
| 16:20:44 | jhMikeS | #6800? That's sounds rather ancient. |
| 16:21:08 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel was working on a newer version of it, and I also made a version of the patch synced to recent SVN. |
| 16:22:10 | kugel | jhMikeS: ancient yes, due to rotting |
| 16:22:22 | kugel | it's a nice patch |
| 16:23:26 | kugel | jhMikeS: you might want to take a look at the latest version I just uploaded some minutes ago |
| 16:23:42 | jhMikeS | to start with we can disable the HW fade though |
| 16:24:25 | kugel | can we? is "fading in software" preferable over hw fading? |
| 16:24:46 | | Quit orly_owl (Connection reset by peer) |
| 16:24:46 | jhMikeS | not if the HW fading could actually be made to work how we need it to of course |
| 16:25:35 | kugel | well, it seems that fading up works, but fading down not |
| 16:25:57 | kugel | in hardware |
| 16:26:24 | jhMikeS | that's where the problem was. the datasheet tells how to do it. like I said, the ramp doesn't seem to be interruptable. |
| 16:26:51 | LambdaCalculus37 | jhMikeS: Is the datasheet up in the wiki? |
| 16:27:02 | kugel | so, software fade is preferable over a mix of both? |
| 16:27:04 | jhMikeS | no, it's NDA crap |
| 16:27:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | Crap. :( |
| 16:27:44 | funky | does anyone here use his ipod throuhg a dockstation? it doesn't work |
| 16:28:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: As long as it doesn't hamper performance, I suppose. |
| 16:28:06 | jhMikeS | of course we just got handed a copy from freescale without signing anything. I think they just don't want it on the web. |
| 16:28:26 | * | LambdaCalculus37 puts on his pirate hat and eye patch |
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| 16:29:46 | jhMikeS | kugel: well, if you can poke at it to get HW to work, my view is that is better |
| 16:30:38 | kugel | jhMikeS, LambdaCalculus37: the patch at fs#6800 is performing well. it uses the backlight thread and can be interrupted while fading |
| 16:31:21 | kugel | I don't think I get the hardware to work. I haven't messed with beast at all, as I don't own it |
| 16:31:40 | * | jhMikeS just wants to think about committing the charging code and then doing and powermgmt reworking |
| 16:32:56 | jhMikeS | doesn't SW fading cause little flashes of extra brightness betwee steps? |
| 16:32:56 | kugel | jhMikeS: I heard the beast cannot really charge on a usb connection because of the disk spinning all the time. can this be fixed (I doubt it's intended) |
| 16:33:14 | kugel | jhMikeS: not this one |
| 16:33:26 | jhMikeS | kugel: I should be fixable if the disk will spin down while connected |
| 16:34:09 | jhMikeS | kugel: Getting all those levels was sort of a hack. I think it is only happens when ramping brigtness up. |
| 16:34:31 | kugel | feel free to try the patch. I've added basic (not really working) support for gigabeat s, but it works just fine on c200&e200 |
| 16:35:02 | jhMikeS | kugel: okiedokie. how many levels hath the e200? |
| 16:35:28 | kugel | 12, I'm using 5 though and it still looks great |
| 16:37:53 | * | jhMikeS 's e200 is being charged for now |
| 16:38:17 | funman | in fact timer2 isn't used by the hardware, it is used by the software for its own timing management |
| 16:40:21 | kugel | jhMikeS: you can safely disconnect your sansa in the middle of charging :) |
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| 16:45:23 | kugel | jhMikeS: do you have an idea how to disable the hardware fading up? |
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| 16:48:57 | LambdaCalculus37 | jhMikeS: The SW fading did cause the brightness on my Gigbeast LCD to max out before fading down. |
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| 16:49:40 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: that was the version as of yesterday though, wasn't it? |
| 16:50:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Yes. Like I said, my battery ran out before I could try the new version. |
| 16:51:45 | kugel | sounded like it's still preset |
| 16:51:49 | kugel | present* |
| 16:54:57 | * | funman notices he forgot to enable a clock in its sd code |
| 16:55:17 | * | funman is filled by a sudden hope |
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| 16:58:43 | | Nick Administrator is now known as netmis (n=chatzill@cpe-90793.ip.primehome.com) |
| 16:58:50 | netmis | hello |
| 16:59:05 | netmis | i saw that onda players are wip |
| 16:59:16 | netmis | what is the current status? |
| 16:59:37 | netmis | is rockchip going to be supported? |
| 16:59:41 | | Quit Seed (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 16:59:46 | netmis | 2706 am interested in |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:24 | | Nick netmis is now known as temis (n=chatzill@cpe-90793.ip.primehome.com) |
| 17:00:34 | | Nick temis is now known as ntemis (n=chatzill@cpe-90793.ip.primehome.com) |
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| 17:01:06 | ntemis | anyone? |
| 17:03:38 | ntemis | Onda VX747 |
| 17:03:52 | funman | ntemis: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/OndaVX747 |
| 17:03:59 | ntemis | what are i saw it |
| 17:04:04 | ntemis | i saw it |
| 17:04:10 | ntemis | not ready yet |
| 17:04:13 | ntemis | :) |
| 17:04:37 | ntemis | what are the advantages of using this firmware instead of the original one? |
| 17:04:49 | LambdaCalculus37 | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox |
| 17:05:27 | funman | every question has its wiki answer :) |
| 17:06:46 | linuxstb | funman: What encryption is used on the newer ipods, and what are the keys? |
| 17:07:23 | ntemis | what about rockchip? |
| 17:07:27 | funman | linuxstb: 42 |
| 17:07:31 | ntemis | i have a lot of these |
| 17:07:43 | ntemis | can anything done on them? |
| 17:08:01 | ntemis | rockchip 2706 |
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| 17:09:04 | funman | ntemis: it seems nobody did write the support for it |
| 17:09:30 | ntemis | i have onda |
| 17:09:38 | ntemis | when ready i will test out |
| 17:10:07 | ntemis | but is good to see a port for rockchip because i have a lot and onda only one |
| 17:10:08 | funman | you can check/subscribe to the forum thread to know the progress |
| 17:10:46 | funman | for rockchip the only thing you can do is write it yourself |
| 17:10:52 | ntemis | can i have subtitles with *.srt being payed automaticaly? |
| 17:11:04 | ntemis | can subs be supported? |
| 17:11:14 | ntemis | srt am interested in |
| 17:11:26 | ntemis | on onda |
| 17:11:43 | ntemis | that would be great addon |
| 17:11:44 | meven | ntemis: this would be intertesting |
| 17:11:51 | saratoga | stop using enter as punctuation |
| 17:11:52 | meven | and really convenient |
| 17:11:59 | ntemis | yeap |
| 17:12:02 | kugel | funman: any hope I can run some more code on my fuze? |
| 17:12:03 | ntemis | much! |
| 17:12:49 | funman | kugel: yes, write some ! |
| 17:12:59 | | Join makicar [0] (n=maki1908@89-201-144-244.dsl.optinet.hr) |
| 17:13:08 | ntemis | and also codepage 1253 will be needed |
| 17:13:22 | ntemis | for subttiles to show ok on me |
| 17:13:31 | ntemis | or else will see chinese |
| 17:13:31 | funman | kugel: or did you mean how to higher the size limit ? |
| 17:13:37 | kugel | yep |
| 17:13:58 | funman | like I told you, we need to test on e200 first |
| 17:14:13 | ntemis | any srt support on avis? |
| 17:14:22 | kugel | Hillshum has a e200 afaik, and he's probably willing to test |
| 17:15:28 | kugel | funman: does the e200v2 not have this small size limit? the features of fuze and e200v2 are about the same |
| 17:16:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | ntemis: Rockbox doesn't play AVI files. Only MPEG 1/2 videos. |
| 17:16:26 | ntemis | it plays |
| 17:16:35 | ntemis | flawlessly |
| 17:16:35 | funman | kugel: the limit is on the file format currently, but we can try what we want on e200 and still be able to recover it |
| 17:17:02 | ntemis | rockchip 2706 |
| 17:17:08 | saratoga | kugel: i got a fuze finally |
| 17:17:11 | saratoga | how hard is it to open |
| 17:17:14 | linuxstb | funman: Have you thought about using something like UCL to compress the OF? |
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| 17:17:55 | kugel | saratoga: quite hard. Use a knife |
| 17:17:57 | jhMikeS | kugel: one moment on the disable stuff |
| 17:18:35 | kugel | saratoga: just pay extra intention on the connection cable of the scrollwheel. it turned out to be extra sensible |
| 17:18:44 | kugel | attention* |
| 17:19:24 | * | linuxstb tests how much UCL would compress the Clip's OF... |
| 17:19:38 | jhMikeS | kugel: remove the MC13783_LEDMDRAMPUP/DOWN bits and that does it iirc |
| 17:20:00 | jhMikeS | ...in _backlight_init() |
| 17:20:17 | kugel | ok, will do. |
| 17:21:37 | linuxstb | funman: UCL compresses the 119336 byte Clip firmware (v1.1.17a) to 77964 bytes, so would give us a fair amount of space for a bootloader... |
| 17:22:10 | linuxstb | funman: That's if I understand the process correctly - that you can copy the firmware from ROM to RAM, and then run it... |
| 17:24:51 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: can you remember how it faded down exactly? |
| 17:25:31 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: was it a) fading down to nearly-off, then max brightness shortly, then really off or b) max brightness, then fading down to off |
| 17:26:44 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: It was b). |
| 17:26:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:26:53 | kugel | ok |
| 17:27:19 | kugel | tell me when you're ready for a new test build |
| 17:29:32 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: In about 20 minutes, upload a new build and give me the signal when it's up. |
| 17:29:51 | LambdaCalculus37 | I want to make sure the battery's got enough charge. |
| 17:29:53 | wpyh | I'm trying to make the settings menu more user-friendly by moving things around. Here is a preliminary patch: http://pastebin.ca/1214352 |
| 17:31:00 | wpyh | so far, some concerns have been raised: the patch makes it easy for regular users, while making it more difficult/complicated for advanced users to change sound settings |
| 17:32:08 | wpyh | the reason is that I'm hiding seldom-used settings under a new submenu "Advanced Sound Settings", advanced users who want to modify advanced settings would have to make a few more clicks than they have to with the current state. |
| 17:32:58 | wpyh | Does anyone have any idea how to make the menu simpler for regular users to use (to not scare them away), but not more complicated for advanced users? |
| 17:37:09 | kugel | what's the benifit of putting stuff simply into a submenu? |
| 17:37:22 | | Quit webguest85 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 17:38:04 | kugel | I'm all for some rearrangement, but that's not what I would call beneficial |
| 17:39:02 | wpyh | kugel: the benefit is that the Sound Settings menu would become less cluttered. |
| 17:39:19 | wpyh | Although I see that devs don't like it... |
| 17:39:29 | kugel | if it's too complicated for the users, they'll ignore it. What makes you think they're scared and what's the result of the scare |
| 17:40:01 | kugel | I'm not a dev and I don't like it very much either |
| 17:40:43 | kugel | it's basically just hiding some options for some people and making ways longer for the other people |
| 17:41:05 | wpyh | I think it scares users away because it's too complicated −− the menu is full of options that people seldom use |
| 17:41:14 | kugel | and new users tend to click on advanced at least once anyway, which kills the "they're scared" argument |
| 17:43:48 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: How many people have probably clicked on "Debug (Keep Out!)" as well? |
| 17:44:15 | wpyh | kugel: yes, but they will realize that "ah, this is not the place for me" and will never go there again |
| 17:44:16 | kugel | masses |
| 17:44:32 | kugel | especially since the "keep out" only appears in english.lang |
| 17:45:14 | kugel | wpyh: so you actually intend to keep users away from the settings which make rockbox to what it is? |
| 17:45:37 | | Quit austriancoder ("Lost terminal") |
| 17:45:38 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: updated the build, link is the same |
| 17:45:43 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: No, the "keep out" is in a few of the other languages... I know it's in Tagalog. |
| 17:45:56 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Okay, going to download now. |
| 17:46:51 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: oh, how could I forget about tagalog! :S |
| 17:47:07 | wpyh | yeah |
| 17:47:28 | kugel | anyway, I correct my self to "not appearing in most languages" |
| 17:47:47 | funman | linuxstb: indeed sounds like a very good idea |
| 17:47:54 | wpyh | kugel: I would not view those settings as "which make rockbox what it is", but yes, I intend to hide regular users from the more advanced settings |
| 17:48:23 | linuxstb | funman: Does the OF copy itself from ROM to RAM? |
| 17:48:36 | wpyh | I think we should work out some solution that does not make it difficult for advanced users... |
| 17:48:48 | funman | I don't really know but I can search a copy routine |
| 17:48:51 | LambdaCalculus37 | wpyh: But it's also a matter of knowing exactly what's a "more advanced setting" to average users. Some people may enjoy the more complicated settings. |
| 17:49:04 | kugel | well, I mainly use rockbox because of it's advanced audio features and costumizability of audio experience (and UI ofc). Also, that's what it's designed fo |
| 17:49:49 | * | kugel adds adds a r |
| 17:49:52 | LambdaCalculus37 | wpyh: I think the best way to do this is to post a patch to Flyspray, and (if you're up to it) maybe offering a unofficial build on the forum that has the patch applied. |
| 17:50:04 | linuxstb | funman: Because if it does, I think we may need patch the firmware remove that feature... |
| 17:50:04 | LambdaCalculus37 | Then people can try it and give you feedback on what they do and don't like. |
| 17:50:18 | wpyh | yes, and for those people, they can always open the advanced settings menu. of course, another option would be to put the basic settings on top and the advanced settings belw |
| 17:50:20 | wpyh | *below |
| 17:50:34 | funman | linuxstb: can you rephrase ? |
| 17:50:48 | wpyh | LambdaCalculus37: it was said earlier today that this kind of patch should not go into flyspray... |
| 17:51:08 | linuxstb | funman: If there is a copy loop, I think we will need to patch the OF to remove that copy |
| 17:51:32 | funman | why that ? what if we want to boot the OF ? |
| 17:51:58 | funman | oh I understand |
| 17:52:01 | linuxstb | funman: The bootloader uncompresses the OF into RAM |
| 17:52:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | wpyh: I agree that it should. |
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| 17:52:33 | wpyh | LambdaCalculus37: how about offering an alternative repository with unofficial patches? |
| 17:52:37 | kugel | wpyh: What is it else? A patch that goes directly into svn? |
| 17:53:01 | LambdaCalculus37 | wpyh: Where do you think most of the unofficial patches are? ;0 |
| 17:53:10 | LambdaCalculus37 | s/;0/;) |
| 17:53:46 | wpyh | LambdaCalculus37: flyspray :p but it's been said that flyspray is not meant for such code... |
| 17:53:57 | wpyh | kugel: I don't quite understand your last sentence... |
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| 17:54:25 | kugel | you said it's not suitable for flyspray |
| 17:55:05 | wpyh | ah |
| 17:55:17 | kugel | you don't want to put it there, but you want it in svn. that makes no sense |
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| 17:55:44 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: updates on backlight fade please :) |
| 17:55:57 | wpyh | quote from #rockbox-community: (12:00:30) Llorean: wpyh: If you're doing work you don't intend to be committed into SVN, it shouldn't be on flyspray. |
| 17:56:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Oh, right! :P |
| 17:56:25 | * | LambdaCalculus37 gets his Gigabeast off the charger |
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| 17:56:38 | wpyh | because this patch won't ever make it to svn, I should not be putting it on flyspray |
| 17:57:05 | kugel | well, I'd just drop the idea if I wouldn't see a chance to get it into svn |
| 17:57:47 | wpyh | kugel: I did that before, but it's getting uneasy. I would like to adapt my idea so devs (and advanced users) aren't put off by it. |
| 17:57:52 | kugel | and I wouldn't even work on patches I don't want to have in svn (where the sense in that anyway?) |
| 17:58:38 | wpyh | and another quote: (11:58:08) Llorean: scorche: That patch isn't suited for Rockbox anyway. It's more or less the beginning of doing exactly what I said he shouldn't have it do (hiding things in "Advanced" menus) |
| 17:59:19 | | Join setkeh [0] (n=setkeh@CPE-124-181-6-74.vic.bigpond.net.au) |
| 17:59:20 | wpyh | kugel: I actually want it to be in svn, but it seems that the patch is not good enough... which is why I'm thinking of how to improve it to make it good enough to go into svn. |
| 17:59:48 | bill2or3 | I've narrowed down my non-booting H340 problem. It'll boot Rockbox if I'm in the bootloader-USB-mode and pull the usb cable out, but wont boot Rockbox directly from power-up, giving a "ATA Error: -1" message. Does anyone have any ideas on how those two boots may differ, in the bootloader code? |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Ready? |
| 18:00:54 | | Join perrikwp [0] (i=d1a8d351@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-101e8502510effb9) |
| 18:01:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Backlight brightness is still not matching to the setting I have it at. The backlight fades, but it raises the backlight to max brightness just before fading out. |
| 18:01:16 | | Quit petur ("gonne") |
| 18:01:47 | kugel | grr |
| 18:01:48 | LambdaCalculus37 | If I try turning the backlight on with a button press, it comes back on, but very dim. If I touch any button when the backlight raises to max brightness, the backlight gets "stuck" at that brightness. |
| 18:02:21 | kugel | does setting the backlight in the settings do anything now at least? |
| 18:02:51 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: ahh wait |
| 18:02:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Nope. Still nothing. |
| 18:03:01 | kugel | Seems I haven't uploaded the build! |
| 18:04:37 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: now, redownload please :S |
| 18:05:02 | * | kugel didn't press the red button to overwrite |
| 18:07:57 | * | LambdaCalculus37 had to go into the logs to get the link again |
| 18:09:19 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Updating now. |
| 18:10:16 | | Quit setkeh ("Leaving") |
| 18:10:42 | funman | linuxstb: no I can't find a copy routine in the OF |
| 18:11:03 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 18:11:15 | funman | in fact it seems to assume it's already in RAM (after changing the coprocessor register cp15) |
| 18:11:56 | funman | while during my tests, I couldn't write to the memory below 128kB, unless I had remapped the RAM at offset 0 (which is done by a special register, unused in the OF) |
| 18:12:55 | funman | weirdly, in my first test, I remapped the RAM at offset 0 but didn't copy the full OF first, which led me think that the AS3525 already had copied the ROM content into RAM |
| 18:13:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Now the backlight fades, but if I let it fade entirely, no amount of button pressing makes it snap back on. |
| 18:13:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | If I catch it in the middle of fading, it raises to max brightness. |
| 18:13:28 | funman | but now looking at the code I think when it boots it's already in RAM and I did a wrong test back then |
| 18:13:37 | funman | I'll check exactly what it changes in cp15 |
| 18:13:53 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: so it goes back on after fading? |
| 18:14:14 | linuxstb | funman: So maybe there is a first-level bootloader that copies the contents of the ROM to RAM? |
| 18:14:18 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: No, it doesn't. |
| 18:14:25 | * | linuxstb checks the datasheet |
| 18:14:33 | kugel | ah you mean you can't turn it on anymore? |
| 18:14:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | It's almost like the LCD turns off entirely. |
| 18:14:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Right! |
| 18:15:40 | kugel | ok, I think what's causing it |
| 18:15:52 | kugel | but you can get it on by restarting? |
| 18:16:16 | kugel | if possible, do a quick check if the backlight setting is working now |
| 18:16:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: The backlight setting still doesn't do anything. |
| 18:16:52 | * | kugel can't explain that |
| 18:17:23 | kugel | does it still go to max brightness before fading down? |
| 18:17:45 | linuxstb | funman: Have you tested (for example), writing to a PC-relative address in the bootloader code, and then reading the value back? This would tell us if we're running from ROM or RAM. |
| 18:18:10 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Still does, and I can still press a button and "catch" that setting. |
| 18:21:55 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-097-241-015.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
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| 18:26:59 | kugel | jhMikeS: can you explain why LCD_ENABLE is defined for beast, but not actually used? |
| 18:27:26 | | Quit J-23 () |
| 18:27:29 | | Quit Bawitdaba (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:27:30 | kugel | HAVE_LCD_ENABLE rather |
| 18:27:51 | linuxstb | funman: So you don't think the OF writes to CCU_MEMMAP ? |
| 18:28:01 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: next version up in a minute |
| 18:28:01 | funman | linuxstb: I tested an absolute value back then |
| 18:28:18 | funman | I see no cross reference in IDA, I looked for all the CCU registers |
| 18:29:06 | funman | because sometimes it loads a register, and sub/add a few offsets from it |
| 18:30:14 | funman | after modifying cp15, the OF clears memory, descending from SP to the end of firmware block (hence, below 128kB) |
| 18:30:31 | funman | gtg, I'll be back later this evening |
| 18:30:45 | funman | you can highlight me if needed |
| 18:30:57 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: I now used almost exactly the same code as in e200 |
| 18:31:18 | linuxstb | funman: OK, so you think it's likely that RAM has already been remapped to 0x0 when the OF is started? |
| 18:31:30 | linuxstb | If so, then I think this UCL trick will work... |
| 18:31:47 | | Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi) |
| 18:34:36 | | Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) |
| 18:35:05 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: are you already installing? :P |
| 18:37:05 | | Join perplexity [0] (i=heh5739@dxb-as80576.alshamil.net.ae) |
| 18:38:02 | | Join nplus_ [0] (n=nplus@141.25.globcom.net) |
| 18:38:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Eating lunch. Two minutes and I'll install. |
| 18:38:52 | kugel | nice |
| 18:39:37 | | Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 18:40:05 | kugel | linuxstb: if there's anything to test on a v2 device let me know |
| 18:40:19 | linuxstb | kugel: You _really_ don't want to test this idea... |
| 18:40:33 | | Quit DerDome ("Leaving.") |
| 18:41:31 | | Quit nplus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:42:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Cross your fingers. :) |
| 18:42:41 | kugel | hm |
| 18:42:48 | kugel | will do |
| 18:43:07 | * | LambdaCalculus37 updates |
| 18:45:34 | kugel | my fingers begin to hurt |
| 18:45:53 | LambdaCalculus37 | You can relax your fingers. :) |
| 18:46:52 | LambdaCalculus37 | The backlight brightness setting works now, *but*!... the backlight still doesn't come back on after it fades out. |
| 18:47:05 | kugel | duh |
| 18:47:11 | kugel | the setting at least works |
| 18:47:16 | | Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) |
| 18:47:22 | kugel | and I guess it |
| 18:47:36 | LambdaCalculus37 | But now you have to figure out how to get the backlight to snap back on after it fades out. |
| 18:47:37 | kugel | 's still going for max brightness before fading down |
| 18:48:09 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Actually, it's not going for max brightness anymore. It's using the setting it's at. |
| 18:48:32 | LambdaCalculus37 | Also, the fadeout is kind of clunky looking. |
| 18:48:51 | kugel | clunky looking? explain please |
| 18:49:21 | kugel | as in, not fluently? |
| 18:49:49 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: It's not fluid, if that's what you're asking. |
| 18:49:53 | | Join Hillshum_ [0] (n=Hillshum@75-165-239-6.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:49:53 | kugel | if yes, that's possibly caused by the pwn table |
| 18:50:42 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I've gotta run for a little bit, so I'll check the logs. |
| 18:50:45 | * | kugel sets this assumption to true and focuses on the remaining bug |
| 18:50:55 | kugel | oh noes! |
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| 18:51:17 | | Quit funman ("leaving") |
| 18:51:32 | | Nick funman_ is now known as funman (n=fun@AAnnecy-257-1-67-132.w90-36.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:51:43 | Hillshum_ | kugul: test? |
| 18:51:48 | Hillshum_ | kugel |
| 18:53:13 | kugel | Hillshum_: I told funman that you're possibly available to test some e200v2 code |
| 18:53:18 | | Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 18:53:28 | Hillshum_ | does he have a patch? |
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| 18:53:36 | | Join culture [0] (n=none@cpc1-bele3-0-0-cust658.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:53:41 | funman | no, no patch |
| 18:56:27 | bertrik | funman, you did some sg3-utils experiments already? |
| 18:57:19 | bertrik | I noticed in the forum thread that the id of the clip recovery device could not be read, but it could read the capacity |
| 18:57:30 | * | Hillshum_ just got a 500 internal server error when submitting a wiki edit |
| 18:57:52 | funman | bertrik: yes but nothing interesting, the device fails to answer to most queries |
| 18:58:07 | bertrik | what about a scsi inquiry? |
| 18:58:25 | funman | in fact it reports 0 blocks, but Linux doesn't handle such devices and report 1 block (of 512 bytes) |
| 18:59:28 | bertrik | it would at least be interesting to find out which scsi commands are supported and which ones are not (and which sense data they return for those commands if any) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:03 | bertrik | the idea is to bypass the linux block device layer, so how linux interprets things is mostly irrelevant |
| 19:00:58 | | Quit setkeh (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:02:49 | | Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 19:03:16 | funman | http://paste.ubuntu.com/52524/ |
| 19:04:30 | funman | http://paste.ubuntu.com/52525/ < weird dynamic answers |
| 19:05:37 | bertrik | hmm, can you do a hex dump of the raw data? |
| 19:06:13 | bertrik | add -H to the sg_inq command IIRC |
| 19:06:16 | funman | it's the same data reported by sg0 |
| 19:06:19 | funman | ah for inq |
| 19:07:03 | funman | http://paste.ubuntu.com/52527/ |
| 19:08:10 | funman | linuxstb: I'll try again writing to the memory |
| 19:08:40 | linuxstb | funman: Do you know what those bits in CP15 do? |
| 19:08:49 | kugel | jhMikeS: can you tell my why HAVE_LCD_ENABLE is defined for the beast even though lcd_enable is not implemented? |
| 19:08:59 | funman | yes, among others it "disables the MMU" |
| 19:09:51 | funman | it clears bits 31, 30, 12, 2, and 0 of the control register of cp15 |
| 19:09:54 | bertrik | interesting, the "UNDEF" vendor is apparently actually sent in the inquiry date (I assumed it was just reported as an unknown string by linux/sg3-utils) |
| 19:10:20 | funman | bertrik: it's reported as well by the linux mass storage driver |
| 19:10:45 | linuxstb | funman: Hmm, I'm just looking at the ARM tech reference now... |
| 19:13:54 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@cpc1-hem18-0-0-cust660.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:14:03 | linuxstb | funman: Hmm, so it seems like it's definitely not remapping RAM before it zeros the BSS and stacks. So I would say it's already copied to RAM... |
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| 19:21:19 | linuxstb | funman: I think we're being stupid - the internal *ROM* is ROM, and I think that just stores a standard AMS bootloader, which will load the main firmware image from the NAND flash disk (or external NOR flash if it exists in the device) |
| 19:21:50 | | Quit Rob2222 () |
| 19:22:04 | linuxstb | funman: So this trick should work fine... |
| 19:22:42 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCC548.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:22:51 | | Quit lasser ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 2.0.0.16/2008070200]") |
| 19:23:23 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: alert me when you're back |
| 19:24:15 | funman | linuxstb: very possible, let me do some tests later this evening/night - right now my brother's girl friend is screaming after me to cook for her :o |
| 19:24:29 | linuxstb | funman: OK, I'm leaving to go home now as well. Speak to you later... |
| 19:26:55 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:28:16 | | Quit rasher ("leaving") |
| 19:28:19 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Back! |
| 19:31:52 | jhMikeS | kugel: Is it? I wasn't aware of that. |
| 19:32:03 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: I've got a new build |
| 19:33:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Up in the same link? |
| 19:33:02 | kugel | jhMikeS: config-gigabeat-s.h line 76 |
| 19:33:08 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: sure |
| 19:33:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I'll get the link in the logs. |
| 19:33:52 | jhMikeS | kugel: there is no reason for it now until the commands can be sent or if we just wish to have the screen not refresh with no backligh |
| 19:34:04 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/forlambda/rockbox.zip |
| 19:37:25 | kugel | not #defining it saves 100bytes |
| 19:37:32 | kugel | binsize |
| 19:39:05 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:39:19 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Here goes nothing! :) |
| 19:39:31 | kugel | what? |
| 19:41:29 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Backlight settings are broken again, clicking a button during fadeout brings the backlight to the setting defined in Backlight Settings, and if the backlight fades out completely, it doesn't come back on. |
| 19:42:09 | kugel | the second "issue" is intended |
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| 19:43:37 | | Quit Hillshum_ ("*puts nose in thick book*") |
| 19:44:07 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:45:45 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: While do you smile? :( |
| 19:46:23 | * | gevaerts tries to think about how to organize usb endpoints |
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| 19:48:35 | | Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@p4FD4BD90.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:48:50 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: next attempt is online |
| 19:50:58 | * | LambdaCalculus37 wonders if his Gigabeast is enjoying all of this constant updating the build business |
| 19:51:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | Crap! |
| 19:52:00 | kugel | of course, it's pure joy for him |
| 19:52:13 | * | LambdaCalculus37 hooked up the Gigabeast in MTP mode! |
| 19:52:49 | | Part fragilematter |
| 19:52:49 | kugel | will it explode now? |
| 19:56:34 | | Join shotofadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds) |
| 19:56:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Good news... backlight fade out and fade in are working! |
| 19:56:49 | | Quit shotofadds (Client Quit) |
| 19:57:05 | kugel | what's not working? |
| 19:57:08 | | Join shotofadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds) |
| 19:57:14 | LambdaCalculus37 | Backlight settings. |
| 19:57:18 | kugel | ok |
| 19:57:39 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: So once you get the entire thing working, make a new patch for Flyspray. |
| 19:59:13 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: next attempt up in a few seconds |
| 19:59:58 | * | gevaerts summons vitja |
| 20:00 |
| 20:05:02 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: now |
| 20:05:50 | | Quit shotofadds (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:10:53 | | Quit Wictor_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
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| 20:12:01 | | Join shotofadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds) |
| 20:12:03 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: "Great success!" :) |
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| 20:13:20 | | Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world") |
| 20:14:12 | kugel | working properly? try with different settings |
| 20:14:23 | kugel | also, still clunky? |
| 20:14:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: The fading is smoother now. |
| 20:15:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | Backlight settings work now. |
| 20:15:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | And it's fading in and out properly. |
| 20:15:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | I say you've got yourself a patch for Flyspray! :) |
| 20:15:50 | Peter15 | hoi |
| 20:15:51 | kugel | it could possibly getting clunky with higher backlight settings. The backlight pwm table gets inconsistent above 15 |
| 20:16:08 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: I have my setting at 20. |
| 20:16:25 | kugel | play a bit more around please |
| 20:16:26 | Peter15 | spricht hier jemand deutsch?? |
| 20:16:42 | kugel | Peter15: not in this channel |
| 20:16:51 | LambdaCalculus37 | Peter15: English only. |
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| 20:17:07 | Peter15 | german channel?? |
| 20:17:27 | | Quit shotofadds (Connection reset by peer) |
| 20:17:49 | | Join shotofadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds) |
| 20:18:02 | Peter15 | german channel?? for rockbox problem |
| 20:19:08 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 20:19:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Nope, it's fine through all of the settings above 15. |
| 20:19:18 | kugel | Peter15: there's a german forum: www.rockbox-lounge.com |
| 20:19:30 | Peter15 | thx |
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| 20:19:49 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: sounds great. How about low settings, how about interrupting it while fading? |
| 20:20:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Let me play around with it. |
| 20:24:01 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Interrupting it while fading makes the fade in just a wee bit clunky. Other than that, it's working very well. |
| 20:24:12 | * | LambdaCalculus37 gives kugel a pizza |
| 20:24:36 | | Quit webguest38 (Client Quit) |
| 20:24:36 | kugel | \o/ now I'm happy! |
| 20:25:25 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: give me a beer instead. I'm already eating mussels |
| 20:25:57 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Chimays.jpg/800px-Chimays.jpg |
| 20:26:16 | kugel | <3 thanks |
| 20:26:18 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Flyspray time? |
| 20:26:23 | kugel | soon |
| 20:30:31 | LambdaCalculus37 | Let me know when. |
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| 20:36:19 | | Quit faemir (SendQ exceeded) |
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| 20:38:07 | | Quit faemir (SendQ exceeded) |
| 20:38:18 | x1jmp | Just discovered that NIN released a new album as CC :) |
| 20:38:21 | | Join faemir [0] (n=quassel@88-106-209-242.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:39:05 | x1jmp | they provide FLAC with 24/96, any chance to play them back with rockbox or does it make sense at all to play these files on an iriver? |
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| 20:40:20 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: it's up |
| 20:40:34 | ze | x1jmp: 24/96? |
| 20:40:35 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: thanks a lot for your testing. Really, you made it possible :) |
| 20:40:41 | ze | x1jmp: you sure? |
| 20:40:59 | x1jmp | ze: 24bit and 96khz, yes I’m sure :) |
| 20:41:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: You're welcome. :) |
| 20:41:29 | ze | x1jmp: you talking about ghosts i-iv or another new one? |
| 20:41:40 | ze | cause i bought that in flac and its only 16/44.1 :/ |
| 20:41:52 | x1jmp | ze: the new one is called "The Slip" |
| 20:41:57 | ze | ah |
| 20:42:28 | ze | i guess ghosts i-iv must've done well if they're already doing another and CC'ing it too |
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| 20:43:03 | x1jmp | are there other CCs released by NIN? |
| 20:43:20 | ze | just ghosts afaik |
| 20:43:38 | x1jmp | btw you can finde the slip there: http://dl.nin.com/theslip/download?token=Tn2bofkq&submit.x=46&submit.y=14&submit=1 |
| 20:43:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | x1jmp: That's off-topic for this channel. |
| 20:44:11 | x1jmp | LambdaCalculus37: sorry |
| 20:44:34 | x1jmp | so can Rockbox play file with 24bit? |
| 20:45:22 | linuxstb | amiconn: Do you know anything about "in-place" UCL decompression? Looking at firmware/decompressor/decompressor.c, that code appears to copy the compressed image to the end of RAM before uncompressing it, but the UCL docs claim the format can be decompressed in-place... |
| 20:45:26 | ze | i saw someone a while back talking about a particular unit being technically capable of it... no idea if it even panned out to be usable as such, or which unit it was, etc |
| 20:45:36 | gevaerts | x1jmp: I'm not sure if it can, but it will have to downsample it to 16 bit 44.1kHz anyway, as that's what the hardware handles |
| 20:46:04 | gevaerts | So it doesn't make much sense to put higher quality files on the player |
| 20:46:34 | | Quit makicar () |
| 20:46:42 | amiconn | linuxstb: I have no idea. The thinned-out decompressor definitely doesn't support in-place decompression. And the code does not just appear to copy, it does copy ;) |
| 20:47:14 | linuxstb | amiconn: OK, I'll search the UCL source... |
| 20:47:25 | amiconn | linuxstb: Btw, I think it would make sense to use thumb on the logicdax for most things (if not all..) |
| 20:47:35 | x1jmp | gevaerts: ah, thanks for that information, that answers my question... |
| 20:48:21 | bill2or3 | is the source for the (iRiver) bootloader patch available? I have a wierd problem booting my H340 and I think seeing that source would help me debug it. |
| 20:50:50 | | Quit Peter15 () |
| 20:51:28 | linuxstb | amiconn: Seems that for in-place decompression, you just put the compressed image at the end of the "output buffer" and use the same decompress function. |
| 20:52:06 | | Join hannesd [0] (n=light@p5B163307.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:52:42 | amiconn | Ah, so you have to move the data anyway (if it's not yet where it has to be) |
| 20:52:52 | linuxstb | Yes, not what I would have called "in-place"... |
| 20:53:21 | amiconn | And in case of decompressor.c it's just not worth calculating the necessary position. We don't lose any ram by putting it at the end. It's temporary anyway |
| 20:56:20 | linuxstb | I think it will be needed in the case of the Sansa V2 bootloaders though - we don't (yet) know what's in the rest of RAM, so it's risky to write to it. So this means we can stay completely in the part of RAM the OF is loaded to. |
| 20:56:23 | * | amiconn thinks that this in-place decompression is only useful when loading compressed data from disk |
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| 21:00 |
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| 21:11:40 | | Quit pixelma2_ ("-") |
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| 21:13:38 | ameyer | well... I guess I'm not as bad as some of you guys but I just purchased an iPod mini to CF mod... |
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| 21:52:45 | joecrush | Hi, I was looking for a particular Rockbox build that incorporates a hardware patch that was being worked on |
| 21:54:05 | | Quit Schmogel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 21:54:18 | Llorean | joecrush: We don't really track or provide support for unsupported builds |
| 21:54:20 | | Join Schmogel [0] (n=Miranda@p3EE21737.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:54:59 | gevaerts | joecrush: telling us what this patch is might also help... |
| 21:55:34 | joecrush | Unfortunately I don't remember the name, it was one that was attempting to make Rockbox work with some hardware such as car iPod players and such |
| 21:55:44 | | Quit gp_g ("Leaving") |
| 21:56:07 | gevaerts | ah, you want soap's apple accessory protocol build. See the unsupported build section on the forums |
| 21:56:36 | * | gevaerts hopes that Llorean will grant an exception for this particular build |
| 21:57:44 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 21:57:52 | joecrush | Ah, that's it, thanks a lot |
| 21:58:16 | Llorean | gevaerts: I didn't say we couldn't tell him about it. Just said we don't really track them. |
| 21:58:39 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 21:58:39 | gevaerts | Llorean: indeed you didn't :) |
| 21:59:48 | | Quit BlakeJohnson86 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:02:05 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:03:22 | | Quit ompaul (No route to host) |
| 22:03:32 | pixelma | petur: could http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18809 have to do with the patch you committed? There are two reports, both are on Ipod Mini (as I remember there were issues with the Minis and it reminded me of the first reports of midiplayer on PP targets where the midis where played twice as fast because it used 22.05kHz sample rate so maybe if their files are lower sample rate too...). Just a guess though |
| 22:03:55 | | Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) |
| 22:04:31 | petur | pixelma: yes, I made an error there that I still have to fix |
| 22:04:40 | | Join joe2371 [0] (n=joe@c-69-138-250-166.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:07:28 | pixelma | ok, was just wondering if this wrong playback could be the result of that |
| 22:08:07 | petur | amiconn already pointed me at my error :/ |
| 22:08:27 | | Join jeffdameth1 [0] (n=jeff@dyndsl-091-096-051-023.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:09:33 | Llorean | MarcGuay: I wouldn't go saying "Unprovoked" right off the bat without knowing how he's been using the player, etc, or really commenting on it at all without first checking if the OF has the same sort of thing happen to it occasionally. |
| 22:09:39 | | Quit jeffdameth (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 22:11:22 | * | linuxstb finds a UCL decompress function in 178 bytes of hand-written thumb code, compared to about 1500 bytes of gcc generated ARM code... |
| 22:11:57 | | Join avis [0] (n=ident@pdpc/supporter/student/avis) |
| 22:12:56 | joe2371 | When upgrading to r18670, do I need to rebuild the bootloader as well? Or can I use the one from r18529? |
| 22:13:32 | | Quit joecrush ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 22:13:41 | gevaerts | joecrush: bootloaders are only updated very rarely |
| 22:14:09 | joe2371 | gevaerts: ok, thanks. |
| 22:17:28 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 22:31:22 | markun | linuxstb: do we still want to experiment with thumb some day? |
| 22:32:52 | linuxstb | markun: Yes, I think so. The Clip for example only has 320KB of RAM... Some of the telechips flash-based targets (DAX, M200) have 2MB, but even there, thumb will probably be useful. |
| 22:33:14 | | Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]") |
| 22:35:15 | petur | anybody with a mini 1g/2g here that could test if playback works again now? |
| 22:35:41 | gevaerts | petur: I'm on it. Current revision and just before? |
| 22:35:47 | gevaerts | Also, what sort of files? |
| 22:35:50 | petur | latest |
| 22:36:11 | Llorean | gevaerts: Should be any, but reported on MP3 and FLAC. |
| 22:36:21 | gevaerts | I'm just thinking that reproducing with a slightly older revision first would be useful |
| 22:37:15 | petur | the current 'daily' probably has the bug |
| 22:40:23 | joe2371 | How does the version in svn typically compare to the latest release? Obviously, there is a greater chance of breakage in the svn version... but mostly in parts of the tree under heavy development. I should think there would also be more chances of... "fixage" (to coin a term) in svn as well, at least in parts of the tree that are not under heavy development at the moment, but that have seen a good bit of development since the last rel |
| 22:40:23 | | Quit hannesd (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:40:24 | * | gevaerts builds builds |
| 22:40:43 | petur | downloading would have worked too ;) |
| 22:40:53 | gevaerts | true :) |
| 22:41:02 | joe2371 | downloading binaries is for squares |
| 22:41:14 | * | gevaerts looks at funman |
| 22:41:24 | Bagder | joe2371: generally speaking, the svn builds are rather stable but if you're unlucky you may hit one that is bad |
| 22:41:46 | joe2371 | Bagder: how unlucky? Like bricked, unlucky? Or just pita unlucky? |
| 22:41:48 | gevaerts | joe2371: the main thing about running the release is that the bugs are (mostly) known |
| 22:41:55 | joe2371 | gotcha |
| 22:42:12 | Bagder | joe2371: just unlucky to the extent you may need to get another build to get a working rockbox again |
| 22:42:51 | joe2371 | Bagder: or revert to last release so you can listen to music while you wait for commits? |
| 22:43:00 | Bagder | yeps |
| 22:43:15 | joe2371 | I am less concerned now. :-) |
| 22:43:21 | * | gevaerts likes the effect of petur's bug :) |
| 22:43:26 | Bagder | most of us here always run svn builds... |
| 22:43:46 | petur | gevaerts: plays at double speed? |
| 22:43:46 | gevaerts | petur: any chance of having that as a setting? |
| 22:43:46 | joe2371 | oic, well that makes hacking.. well... more topical, at least. |
| 22:44:04 | gevaerts | petur: Now building the fixed one |
| 22:44:16 | petur | gevaerts: try the pitch screen for that effect |
| 22:44:32 | gevaerts | Or for the workaround :) |
| 22:46:27 | | Quit meven (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:46:58 | gevaerts | petur: r18673 works properly |
| 22:48:03 | gevaerts | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18798.msg135751 looks like a bug to me. That's at least the third one in the last week or so |
| 22:48:48 | petur | gevaerts: thanks |
| 22:52:30 | gevaerts | Could this be caused by JdGordon's playlist cleanup? |
| 22:53:46 | kugel | jhMikeS: hey, I got the fading to work, just might want to watch it on your devices |
| 22:54:17 | joe2371 | I have a sansa e2X0 and I have been starting to hack around with it. However, I was dismayed to discover that the Portal Player pp50XX chips are NDA'ed. The modifications I have in mind almost all would use the undocumented hardware registers of these chips. Does anyone know if any documentation of these registers exists within the FLOSS community? Or does (anyone know if) rockbox merely hook(s) into the OEM firmware somehow? |
| 22:54:45 | Bagder | joe2371: all the PP knowledge we have is 100% reverse engineered |
| 22:54:47 | Bagder | there is no docs |
| 22:54:48 | joe2371 | I mean, is there a rockbox-sansa-hacking group? |
| 22:55:00 | Bagder | sure, we're here |
| 22:55:12 | * | pixelma hands out the axes |
| 22:55:12 | Bagder | the rockbox dev group is a single large one |
| 22:55:21 | joe2371 | Ok. |
| 22:55:21 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-097-242-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:55:49 | joe2371 | So the PP knowlege we have is entirely contained in the sources? |
| 22:55:50 | | Quit herrwaldo (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:55:57 | Bagder | yes, and in the wiki |
| 22:56:04 | gevaerts | In the sources, the wiki, and some heads |
| 22:56:05 | Bagder | and some used to be found in the ipl wiki |
| 22:57:08 | Bagder | and on my sansa pages |
| 22:57:24 | Bagder | like http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200.html |
| 22:57:35 | joe2371 | Well, fortunately, Portal Player was bought by nVidia, so the full whitepapers ought to be freely available any minute now. ;-) |
| 22:57:40 | BigBambi | ha |
| 22:57:41 | Bagder | but that's perhaps not so PP but more sansa |
| 22:57:56 | Bagder | joe2371: yeah right |
| 22:58:13 | Bagder | nvidia, the frontier of freedom! |
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| 23:00 |
| 23:00:14 | | Join freqmod_qu [0] (i=quassel@iskrembilen.com) |
| 23:00:29 | bill2or3 | I don't suppose Linus is here? |
| 23:00:45 | gevaerts | Apparently not |
| 23:01:00 | bill2or3 | :-) |
| 23:01:22 | gevaerts | Unless he's undercover, spying on us with a different nick |
| 23:01:26 | bill2or3 | I have questions about the iriver bootloader, and I think he'd know. |
| 23:01:36 | bill2or3 | I also have an H340 that doesn't boot. :-( |
| 23:01:42 | | Quit freqmod_qu (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:01:50 | | Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 23:02:23 | | Join freqmod_qu [0] (i=quassel@iskrembilen.com) |
| 23:02:36 | gevaerts | You could always ask. Maybe someone else knows |
| 23:04:02 | bluebrother | or maybe LinusN reads the logs? |
| 23:04:03 | bill2or3 | ok. I boot my H340, and get "ATA Error: -1." I see from reading iriver_h300.c this indicates a -1 returned from ata_init() |
| 23:04:06 | bill2or3 | but.... |
| 23:04:27 | | Join miepchen^schlaf_ [0] (n=miepchen@p579ECD96.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:04:37 | bill2or3 | if I turn it on by inserting the cable, it goes into 'Bootloader USB mode', and when I remove the cable it boots into rockbox properly. |
| 23:05:05 | * | funman looks back at gevaerts |
| 23:05:09 | bill2or3 | it almost seems like the drive isn't spinning up fast enough to init. (but that's just my uneducated theory) |
| 23:05:17 | bill2or3 | if anyone has suggestions, I'm listening. |
| 23:06:22 | ameyer | damn it |
| 23:06:38 | * | gevaerts wonders if funman downloads binaries ;) |
| 23:06:44 | * | ameyer gets yet another stkov on his sansa |
| 23:07:50 | gevaerts | bill2or3: could be. Maybe there is a delay you could increase. The problem is that if you get the bootloader wrong on a h300, you have real problems |
| 23:08:18 | bill2or3 | yeah, I'm not so anxious to start mucking around with it at random. |
| 23:09:37 | | Join webguest35 [0] (n=62905a0f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-831069032a41a52c) |
| 23:10:06 | webguest35 | hey how can i fix a corrupted version.txt on the sansa e280r? |
| 23:10:31 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Connection timed out) |
| 23:15:06 | | Quit webguest35 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 23:15:52 | | Join webguest68 [0] (n=62905a0f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-c528e45b3b9a407d) |
| 23:17:25 | | Quit x1jmp (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:17:54 | advcomp2019 | webguest68, have you tried the e200tool? |
| 23:18:15 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:18:19 | Bagder | does the firmware really care about version.txt? |
| 23:18:27 | | Quit bughunter2 ("bye") |
| 23:19:32 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@195.167.65.111) |
| 23:20:24 | advcomp2019 | Bagder, i have seen the OF check it i think because OF not to boot anymore but recovery mode works |
| 23:21:00 | webguest68 | yes I have, advcomp |
| 23:21:17 | webguest68 | I found a thread where the version.txt fixed the problem |
| 23:21:42 | webguest68 | but i that was with an e250 |
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| 23:27:00 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:27:03 | SpaceTraveler | Is Rockbox being developed for the Olympus Mrobe i500? |
| 23:27:20 | | Quit petur ("Zzzz") |
| 23:27:40 | | Quit maddler ("connection reset by beer!") |
| 23:28:00 | funman | webguest68: it's exactly the same |
| 23:28:14 | webguest68 | the version.txt? |
| 23:28:19 | gevaerts | funman: not entirely. webguest68 has an e200r |
| 23:28:43 | linuxstb | funman: I've just posted my UCL suggestion to the forum thread... |
| 23:28:59 | funman | ah sorry the difference is with rhapsody models |
| 23:29:01 | Bagder | SpaceTraveler: some progress have been made but it seems to have stalled lately |
| 23:29:07 | webguest68 | true... but i pasted a verion.txt from a e260r over my corrupted one, but it didn't work |
| 23:29:11 | webguest68 | i did it 3 times. |
| 23:29:19 | funman | linuxstb: cool :) |
| 23:29:48 | SpaceTraveler | ok...I'll keep checking back...thanks |
| 23:30:19 | linuxstb | funman: I'm thinking I can use one of my other ARM targets to test this code on. For example, on my Logik DAX I have a very safe "usb boot mode" where I can upload code to RAM and run it, without fear of bricking. |
| 23:31:47 | funman | linuxstb: if you're not in a hurry we can wait for someone to test the code on a e200 |
| 23:32:06 | linuxstb | funman: That's no fun ;) |
| 23:32:44 | funman | or wait until tomorrow when I decide to buy an e200 by excitement :P |
| 23:33:30 | gevaerts | funman: you'll get a v1 |
| 23:33:49 | | Join jfb9301 [0] (n=jfb9301@cpe-67-49-143-82.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 23:34:05 | linuxstb | funman: BTW, what is the "toolchain" atomicpunk is referring to here? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg135686#msg135686 |
| 23:34:38 | funman | gevaerts: then I'll have rockbox running and my mission will be over ! |
| 23:34:55 | * | linuxstb wonders if there is a way to view an entire forum thread on one page |
| 23:35:21 | funman | linuxstb: I don't know, probably the gcc he built with rockbox script on windows |
| 23:35:21 | * | linuxstb discovers the "print page" option... |
| 23:35:35 | kugel | linuxstb: have you already tried to run such a compressed firmware? |
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| 23:36:10 | linuxstb | kugel: No, I haven't built one yet... |
| 23:36:11 | jfb9301 | I have a question about using the Peak Meter on the WPS |
| 23:36:28 | funman | kugel: it's actually used for low-size archos : look in firmware/decompressor |
| 23:37:01 | kugel | funman: I think linuxstb was refering to another algorithm |
| 23:37:19 | linuxstb | kugel: No, that's the same thing |
| 23:37:39 | jfb9301 | is there any way of customizing the peak meter similar to the way you can customize the progress bar on the WPS? |
| 23:37:45 | kugel | is this the 180byte one (I haven't looked at it yet) |
| 23:38:30 | linuxstb | kugel: No, the 180-byte thumb version is part of the upx-3.03 source archive. Rockbox currently uses the C version |
| 23:38:56 | kugel | And I thought you were referring to this one |
| 23:39:02 | funman | ah upx .. I know this for packing executables, I was googling to get an ucl compressor :) |
| 23:39:45 | kugel | the e200v1 should also be safe to test such a firmware, given that the manufactoring mode is basically always available |
| 23:40:01 | kugel | and then, there's even the preboot mode |
| 23:40:25 | bluebrother | upx comes with an arm thumb asm decompressor? Nice. |
| 23:40:42 | funman | ;j |
| 23:40:46 | funman | kugel: preboot ? |
| 23:42:12 | kugel | funman: the v1 have 4 modes, normal, recovery, manufactoring, preboot. From any of it, you can recover (except the first one maybe ;) ) to a working state |
| 23:42:13 | | Quit webguest68 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 23:42:13 | | Quit vcardenas ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 23:42:56 | linuxstb | jfb9301: No, but it's been discussed in the past. So maybe someone will be interested enough to do it at some point... |
| 23:43:27 | | Quit Hillshum (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:43:46 | kugel | funman: have you read my answer to linuxstb's post? |
| 23:44:03 | jfb9301 | thanks, I sure hope someone does. I was trying to modify a WPS to have both a progress bar and a peak meter that was not the run of the mill monochrome one |
| 23:44:24 | funman | kugel: yes but I am not sure of the right answer |
| 23:44:56 | linuxstb | jfb9301: You can define a viewport with custom colours (and width), and put the peakmeter in there, but I think that's all... |
| 23:45:18 | * | pixelma deletes similar suggestion from input line |
| 23:45:39 | jfb9301 | the manual also does not mention if rockbox now supports APEv2 tags, I searched the web and it appeared that it did not, yet replaygain seems to function as if rockbox does recognize APEv2 |
| 23:46:10 | linuxstb | jfb9301: It supports APEv2 tags for files where it's the native tag format. For MP3 Rockbox only supports id3v1 and id3v2 |
| 23:46:27 | jfb9301 | custom colors and width? where might i research that? |
| 23:46:39 | linuxstb | jfb9301: Read about viewports in the CustomWPS wiki page |
| 23:46:58 | jfb9301 | customwps wiki page, got it |
| 23:47:21 | | Quit shotofadds (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 23:48:19 | | Quit dabujo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:48:24 | linuxstb | kugel: How do you know that the player doesn't update itself after you dd the new firmware to the NAND? And how do you know you're dd'ing to the NAND, and not a RAM disk (like the e200v1 recovery mode) |
| 23:48:40 | jfb9301 | odd about the apev2, when no apev2 was present, 50% of the time my mp3s would clip out. using mp3gain (which only creates APEv2) appeared to make rockbox function in replay gain |
| 23:48:45 | * | linuxstb doesn't know about the e200v2's recovery mode... |
| 23:49:06 | bluebrother | jfb9301: are you sure mp3gain writes replaygain tags? |
| 23:49:29 | funman | linuxstb: why using ucl ? we don't need to pack an executable and another algorithm might give use more room, even if the function which decompresses it is longer than the ucl one |
| 23:49:34 | bluebrother | I remember some tool that used ape tags to remember the original amplification and changing it in the files directly |
| 23:49:55 | Unhelpful | jfb9301: unless you tell it to do otherwise, it will actually rewrite the files, and record undo data in ape tags... i *think*. |
| 23:49:57 | linuxstb | funman: You're confusing upx and ucl |
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| 23:50:05 | | Join lasser [0] (n=chatzill@Wa291.w.pppool.de) |
| 23:50:11 | jfb9301 | mp3gain writes gain tags as APEv2 tags, but not to the id3 tags |
| 23:50:41 | kugel | linuxstb: the firmware is written to the firmware partition. As I said, I might've gotten it wrong, I don't have a e200v2 |
| 23:50:42 | ameyer | Unhelpful: I think you're right. |
| 23:50:42 | linuxstb | funman: The advantage of ucl is that it decompresses very fast, and the decompression code is tiny (180 bytes for thumb) Show me another decompression function that small... |
| 23:50:54 | jfb9301 | I made sure I was not rewriting the files, but just gain tags |
| 23:51:08 | funman | linuxstb: right, it presents very good features (no memory for decompression also) |
| 23:51:44 | linuxstb | funman: Yes, that's the other good feature for us - we can do all of this within the space of the original firmware. |
| 23:52:25 | bluebrother | jfb9301: well, if it stores "undo" information as the FAQ says it's not only tags like the ReplayGain Rockbox supports |
| 23:52:50 | bluebrother | also, ReplayGain has two tags: album and track gain |
| 23:54:19 | | Join hospadar [0] (n=2309286e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-5db43b962b068409) |
| 23:54:31 | hospadar | howdy |
| 23:54:44 | | Quit culture (Connection timed out) |
| 23:54:58 | hospadar | So I just canned my zen so I could buy a gigabeat and play with rockbox |
| 23:55:05 | hospadar | and I'm wondering about developing for it |
| 23:55:20 | linuxstb | Which gigabeat? |
| 23:55:25 | hospadar | where would I go to find out who needs what written |
| 23:55:29 | hospadar | an F40 |
| 23:55:49 | | Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:56:06 | linuxstb | There's not that much left that's specific to the F40. The main missing "hardware feature" is I think to flash a Rockbox bootloader to the flash ROM, which kkurbjun is (slowly) working on. |
| 23:56:21 | | Quit jgarvey ("Leaving") |
| 23:56:30 | hospadar | well is there general stuff that needs to be worked at all? |
| 23:56:46 | bluebrother | jfb9301: from the wikipedia article it _does_ modify the files, and thus it works differently than the ReplayGain tags Rockbox supports: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3Gain |
| 23:56:53 | linuxstb | hospadar: Yes, everything ;) |
| 23:57:36 | jfb9301 | bluebrother, what you are saying seems to make things make a little more sense. while my files were no longer clipping, the preamp gain of the replay gain was not funtioning. |
| 23:58:09 | linuxstb | hospadar: You should simply download the source and start fixing things you don't like, or implement new features... The bug/patch tracker could be a good place to start - either fixing bugs, or working on patches to get them to commit-quality. |
| 23:58:16 | bluebrother | sure. I looked at that software a while ago myself when searching for a tool to add replaygain tags to mp3 files. |
| 23:58:27 | bluebrother | fortunately my music is now ogg ;-) |
| 23:58:34 | jfb9301 | so, from that maybe mp3gain adjusted the gain of the mp3 and stored the undo in the apev2 tag. like you said. |
| 23:58:48 | jfb9301 | so, how do i ad replaygain to the id3 tags? |
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