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#rockbox log for 2008-10-06

00:00:14linuxstbztx_-: The high-level (framebuffer drawing) code is firmware/drivers/lcd-*.c
00:00:22 Quit bertrik (Remote closed the connection)
00:00:26deneslinuxstb: I am not very familiar with rockbox itself. I also don't have much time
00:00:47casainhoBagder: the only fixed address is for interrupts vectors? all other can change?
00:00:52amiconnWell, my method would be googling around for datasheets of lcd controllers which could potentially match, and then compare the command set and/or init sequence
00:01:02Bagdercasainho: basically, yes
00:01:53linuxstbdenes: That sounds like a request for someone else to do it ;)
00:01:57casainhoI think I will try to debug using an LED, to try understand if code enters correctly on interrupts codes...
00:02:44amiconnThat's how I found the Sansa c200 LCD controller (Most likely Samsung S6B33, command set matches), and also the oldplayer LCD controller (command set / register addresses match)
00:02:55 Join shotofadds [0] (
00:03:50denesamiconn: that's a long and tedious process - and the code already works. of course I will not prevent anybody from doing it, on the contrary.
00:04:26amiconnYes, the code works, but it's not optimal, and you're restricted to using the commands the OF uses, because you don't know the others
00:05:31amiconnThe driver doesn't even do proper partial updates yet. And then there are features like display flip where you simply need the data sheet...
00:05:41 Quit coatman (Connection timed out)
00:08:20 Quit bluebrother ("sleep")
00:08:24 Quit dabujo ("( :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: )")
00:09:52denesamiconn: the datasheet is not neccessarily public, either.
00:13:31 Join coatman [0] (
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00:27:38 Join carlinuxlearner [0] (
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00:28:09carlinuxlearnerSo is anyone working on cracking the Ipod Nano 2G?
00:28:18carlinuxlearnerhow might I help?
00:29:45linuxstbBy cracking the ipod Nano 2G ;)
00:30:23linuxstbThe people at the linux4nano project have made some progress (they've dumped the content of the flash ROM), but that itself is also encrypted, so it didn't help much.
00:30:46 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:30:54carlinuxlearnerso we have a team that trying! :-D
00:31:00linuxstbBut no regular Rockbox contributor is working on it at all (as far as I know).
00:31:57 Quit coatman (Success)
00:32:01pixelmaLambdaCalculus found dfu mode (whatever that means)
00:32:18 Quit reacocard ("reboot")
00:32:56carlinuxlearnerSo if I want to help, a good place to start would be
00:33:09denesinstead of trying to crack the nano 2g it's easir to just buy a meizu m3 - same hardware, and much easier to upload software
00:33:27linuxstbOr one of many other players... But that's not really the point ;)
00:33:28soapis it known to be the same hardware?
00:33:28denesand cheaper too
00:33:48 Quit ztx_- (Remote closed the connection)
00:34:14linuxstbWell the good thing is that if the nano 2g encryption is ever cracked, the port itself won't be starting from scratch.
00:34:26deneslinuxstb: right
00:35:14 Quit shotofadds (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:35:34linuxstbIt may even be helpful in the hacking attempts - e.g. if we have working code, then it becomes useful to look for buffer overflows to try and run it.
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00:37:58carlinuxlearnerwell thanks for the info
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00:42:09 Join myndzi [0] (
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00:43:14myndziokay! i got things going and managed to do most everything on my own, but now i have a build error, i suspect from and oldish patch.. is there a compatible one-button-press queue song patch somewhere? this #5555 i would have to fix but it looks like it's defunct anyway
00:44:15myndzialternately, this line: FOR_NB_SCREENS(i) { gui_wps_set_margin(&gui_wps[i]); } is the problem, it looks like that function doesn't exist anymore but i'm not much of a ocoder. does somebody know what this should be?
00:48:07 Join alkos333 [0] (
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00:49:13linuxstbmyndzi: Do you know if any of the official builds include that feature? If so, maybe they distribute a current version of that patch.
00:49:32linuxstbI mean unofficial builds...
00:49:50myndzito be honest i don't know where to find them anymore
00:50:00myndzii just wanted to add the mikmod and this, that's it :)
00:50:20myndzibut also it's good to learn. anyway, the one unofficial build i saw with them isn't up to 3.0 i think yet
00:50:39myndzii just commented that part out and i will see what happens!
00:50:46 Quit funman ("leaving")
00:51:34linuxstbBut yes, margins are no longer used in the WPS - viewports have replaced them.
00:51:44 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
00:52:12myndzisounds about right. i'm not sure what he was doing with that code since it's just supposed to change stuff to do with keypresses, not display
00:52:55myndzibut i'm also totally unfamiliar with rockbox's code anyway
00:53:48 Quit ender` (" To err is human; to really foul things up takes a computer.")
00:54:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:55:12myndzion that note, let's see if i really fouled things up :)
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00:58:57myndziwell it doesn't work but it isn't dead either
00:59:05myndzijust does nothing
00:59:19myndzii can live without that patch anyway
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01:05:23myndzifound a different patch that does work :) it's the one i used to have anyway before i just started going with the trunk builds
01:06:30 Quit coatman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:07:16 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
01:11:04myndzisuccess :D) .. oh my, thanks telnet
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01:16:42 Quit casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092510]")
01:17:29salty-horseIs there a user-configurable way to control the initially-selected item of the main menu on startup? If not, will such a feature be welcome, or should I just hack my own version?
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01:32:09linuxstbsalty-horse: You can select the startup screen, but not the selected item in the main menu.
01:33:31salty-horseyeah.. my use case is starting it up while it's in my pocket, and pushing just one button to resume playback (when I'm ready. I don't want it to start playing automatically which is configurable)
01:33:53amiconnUsing full paths for the various tools helps quite a bit on Interix and Cygwin
01:34:00linuxstbsalty-horse: You can just press the "play" button to resume playback.
01:34:42amiconnBuild speedup is 5..10% with no virus scanner running, and >30% with virus scanner enabled
01:34:43salty-horselinuxstb, ...
01:34:57salty-horseso many wasted seconds
01:35:17linuxstbamiconn: "wow" indeed...
01:35:32amiconnsalty-horse: You don't need configurable menu position for that
01:35:38*amiconn is too late
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01:37:20linuxstbsalty-horse: Or alternatively, it's trivial to re-order menu items, so playback is at the top.
01:37:55salty-horseno need for that :)
01:39:47salty-horseI do, however, have some qualms about the "power" button returning to main menu and pausing playback. Is there an easy way to return to main menu during playback without pausing it? using the "submenu" button is a bit annoying
01:40:10salty-horse(I got used to the power button *not* pausing playback.. but it was changed at one point)
01:40:23linuxstbAre you talking about the e200?
01:41:13linuxstbI've never used it.. All I know is that on other targets, the "menu" button takes you to the main menu without pausing playback.
01:42:07salty-horseI'm using the terminology of this image:
01:43:16salty-horseyou're right again. I'm very confused at this time of night
01:43:33amiconnAnd using full paths is also faster on Linux; I measured about 15%
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01:43:46amiconn(just a single try so far though)
01:44:21 Quit webguest32 (Client Quit)
01:44:41linuxstbamiconn: I guess it's just as simple as setting CC (and friends) in the Makefile created by configure?
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01:45:11amiconnI did this by hand for the tests
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01:51:09 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
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02:04:56*super_ slap super
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02:54:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:56:43smacnay_I have a question. I am about purchase my first mp3 player and am reading about rockbox. Which player would you recommend now and which maybe in a 6 months from now?
02:57:27smacnay_Rockbox takes care of playing all the formats I use but which player is "easiest" to use, has great sound, and decent storage/price?
03:04:06kons1no idea, i would have a look on ebay...
03:04:35linuxstbsmacnay_: This page may help -
03:04:48kons1concerning the price at least
03:05:35smacnay_linuxstb, I have read that and it does narrow things down but I am looking for personal (yours) recommendations.
03:06:44linuxstbIt depends on your needs. I want lots of storage space and don't have a need for radio or recording, so I have a Gigabeat F20 upgraded with an 80GB drive.
03:07:16smacnay_linuxstb, thanks, that helps - rockbox works well on it, I assume
03:08:17ameyerthe sansa e2x0 is nice. while not as full of features, an iPod mini (preferably 2nd gen?) modded with a 32 GB CF card would probably be nice too
03:08:43kons1whats about (harddisk) noises?
03:08:56smacnay_Gigabeat does not dual boot - does that cause any issues?
03:09:12linuxstbNone - the original firmware serves no purpose.
03:09:19smacnay_ameyer, I looked at the sansa info and it seemed pretty nice too.
03:09:49smacnay_Are the Cowon macines worth looking for?
03:10:04ameyeronly catch is that by default it only charges and does USB in the OF
03:10:12ameyererm, the sansa's only catch
03:10:22smacnay_original firmware?
03:10:34ameyeroh, and Monkey's audio doesn't work on any PortalPlayer targets
03:10:44 Nick smacnay_ is now known as smacnay (
03:10:50ameyersmacnay: yes
03:11:02linuxstbsmacnay_: Yes, the Cowon players are well liked - I've never used one though.
03:11:15scorchesmacnay: they tend to be quite expensive on ebay though...
03:11:23smacnayscorche, I see that
03:11:48scorchesmacnay: you might want to have a look at teh gigabeat f devices
03:12:17smacnayI think availability in my area might force to a sansa - I might need to search hard for the gigabeat.
03:12:31smacnayThe gigabeat are a max 4 Gig, correct?
03:12:52scorcheno...they are a max of 40
03:13:08smacnayah, that is new to me
03:13:21linuxstbI thought there were F60s? i.e. 60GB.
03:13:30 Quit alkos333 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:13:45scorcheerrr...there are...
03:14:41ameyerthere's at least x60s
03:14:51smacnayI will look them up.
03:15:30scorcheameyer: though that is the gigabeat X which uses a different hard drive connector
03:17:48*ameyer isn't really an expert in the differences between various rockboxable players, all I have is a Sansa e260 and an iPod mini in need of repair and rockboxing
03:18:00UnhelpfulS comes in 60GB as well, and... mostly works.
03:19:15Unhelpfuli'm told that people who use the voice feature have serious problems with the PCM driver. i've not had great problems with it just playing music.
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03:20:55ameyerscorche: let me guess, the F uses Hitachi Death^WTravelstar drives and the X uses Toshibas?
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03:22:12scorcheameyer: no...they both come with Toshibas, but that doesnt matter much...what does matter is that the F uses a 50 pin connector and the X uses ZIF40
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03:26:59smacnayhmm, not sure where to find the gigabeat in my area (without going online to order it).
03:27:10smacnayTons of sansa players, though.
03:27:42scorcheebay or craigslist are good resources
03:27:58ameyerprobably no e2x0v1s or c2x0v1s, though
03:28:04Unhelpfula sansa e2x0 in a store is very likely v2, and not rockbox-compatible. froobi currently sells refurbished v1 sansas online, and they show up on woot sometimes as well.
03:28:20ameyeralthough, the SansaV2 port is progressing, it seems
03:28:25ameyerUnhelpful: like today
03:29:26smacnayhmm, walmart has some sansa e250 but not sure which version
03:29:27Unhelpfultrue, they have an 8GB today, if i recall. my 6GB from froobi came as described, including rockbox compatibility.
03:29:59scorchesmacnay: almost all bets are on it being a v2
03:30:04Unhelpfulgigabeat will almost certainly mean going to ebay or such. if you want to buy a brand new player in a store, you probably need to forget about rockbox.
03:30:14smacnayI wouldn't take you up on that bet.
03:30:30ameyerof course, smacnay's IP implies that he's from Canada and therefore can't buy from woot
03:30:37smacnayUnhelpful, you are more helpful than I thought you were going to be.
03:30:52Unhelpfulirony is a beautiful thing. :P
03:30:53smacnayameyer, yes, I am a Canuck.
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03:33:58Unhelpfulfroobi might ship to .ca. ebay, you will just have to hunt for the right auction.
03:34:09smacnayhmm, which gigabeat series is the one to look at - ebay shows a few... and they are the same but different storage sizes.
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03:34:57scorchesmacnay: the F (or X if you can find it, but they are very very rare)
03:35:21smacnaythese are F40 and F20 I think
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03:39:16funmanI've pushed my rockbox branch including dual-boot mkamsboot and lcd driver for clip on
03:40:44smacnayhmm, here is one on ebay with rockbox installed already.
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03:42:49funmanI am not sure if you can get it already, the git process is still stuck on my side, but the merge appears on the website
03:45:28ameyerfunman: does rockbox actually do anything on SansaV2 yet?
03:46:00funmanit's still in development (only for the Clip at the moment)
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03:51:59 Join sjek [0] (
03:53:08sjek hey, think I've jsut bricked my ipod with rockbox, anyone around to help?
03:54:56 Quit super_ ()
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03:55:57Lloreansjek: Bricking it with Rockbox is basically impossible. You might want to ask a clearer question?
03:56:13sjeksure, jsut checking if anyone was about
03:56:51Lloreansjek: The channel guidelines do mention that you should generally just go ahead and ask your question.
03:57:39sjekinstalled rockbox today on ipod nano 1st gen, with the gui client (the automated installer, forget the name) and it worked fine. Left it in to charge, now it wont turn on, reboot or be recognised when I plug it into my compupter. I cant give you the build version (as I can't turn it on) but it'll be the latest as of today
03:58:34sjekmenu+select does nothing, its not recognised under xp as removeable storage, nothing.
03:58:45scorchesjek: is the screen just off?
03:59:14ameyersjek: any chance you flipped the hold switch to "on"?
03:59:35sjekscorche: I don't think so, how would I check? its not being picked up when I plug it into usb
03:59:56scorchesjek: well, does it look off?
04:00:11scorcheas in, you arent seeing disk mode on the screen...
04:00:36sjekscorche: nothing on screen. no backlight, nothing.
04:01:31scorchesjek: if menu+select does nothing, your device has likely run out of battery...if you have an AC adapter, use that, otherwise leave it plugged in to your computer for 48 hours
04:01:49sjekameyer: tried without hold switch (to boot rockbox) then (as per FAQ) tried with hold on, to try to bot apple firmare. Nothing either time, blank screen, no backlight, completly unresponsive.
04:02:51sjekscorche: I'll give it a go but, it had around 90% of battery an hour ago (when it was working) but after trying to charge it with a usb cable, its dead.
04:02:54Lloreansjek: What FAQ says to do it with hold on?
04:03:56scorchesjek: just to make sure, can you flip the hold switch on then off, then hold menu and select for 30 seconds (yes, 30 seconds) while holding your fingers very still?
04:04:13sjektrying now
04:06:51sjeknope, nothing
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04:07:51sjekholds off, menu+select for 60s, not a flicker of life.
04:09:32sjekscorche: also, when I plug it into my computer, the screen continues to stay dead, without backlight or anything esle. Assuming it was the battery, would the backligh not illuminate (albeit briefly) to indicate that it was charging?
04:10:14Lloreansjek: there's an apparent bug in the in-flash (apple) firmware that prevents it from booting if for some reason the Apple flash firmware think it sees a low battery.
04:10:20scorchesjek: if your computer is on and supplying the port with power...and your ipod is plugged into this, it is charging even though you may not see it
04:10:36LloreanIt doesn't normally affect iPod users because the Apple on-disk firmware usually just sleeps, without shutting all the way down, so the in-flash stuff doesn't get to make decisions.
04:11:05LloreanIf it doesn't boot, you don't get to a point where you have the software giving you information about the charging (like turning the LCD on) but it does still charge.
04:11:49sjekso connect it up and hope? plug and pray compatible? :)
04:12:23sjekthanks for the help, I'll let it charge (assuming thats what its doing) and try again in 24-48hours
04:12:39ameyerhypothetically speaking, should charging the battery (or replacing the battery with something that'll accept a charge then charging) fix an iPod that's in that state?
04:12:45Lloreansjek: Most often people have found after leaving it charging a couple days that it's just back to working normal, not having to do anything.
04:12:56ameyerfwiw, the mini that I bought seems to be having that issue
04:13:00Lloreanameyer: Just leaving it on the charger for a day or two has always done it in the past.
04:13:23Lloreanameyer: Though, I'm pretty sure we only know of this bug in the context of 5G/5.5G/Nano so far.
04:13:29ameyerat least, that's what I think the graphic that seems to suggest plugging the ipod into a charger means
04:13:45Lloreanameyer: If you're getting graphics, your device is in a different state than this.
04:14:02ameyereh, I've got a charger, a usb cable, a battery, and a cf card coming anyway...
04:14:08LloreanIf it's showing a graphic suggesting you should plug it into a wall charger, it wants to update the in-Flash firmware and wants to be sure it's on a wall power supply before doing so.
04:14:22sjekLlorean: well, I hope it working. If it doesnt, I assume I can force mount it in linux, reformat and reinstall?
04:14:38Lloreansjek: If the device refuses to turn on, how were you planning to mount it?
04:15:02ameyerLlorean: good to know
04:15:16Lloreansjek: Right now, it's the Apple Flash firmware preventing you from using the device entirely, and you can't get into disk mode until that flash firmware starts acting normally again.
04:15:30ameyerLlorean: so, it's not actually broken and I don't need to gut it? :(
04:15:40LloreanProbably not, no.
04:15:53*ameyer probably will gut it anyway
04:16:06sjekLlorean: (I have no exp with apple firmware) even if it wont turn on, could it not mount as a block device?
04:16:31ameyerit'd need to boot into disk mode to mount
04:16:42ameyercurrently, it won't do that
04:17:13Lloreansjek: USB is handled by software, if the software isn't running there's no USB to export the block device over.
04:17:15ameyerat least, that's how I read Llorean's statement
04:18:11soapLlorean, hate to interupt, but am I missing something obvious here? :
04:18:20soapI got an itch I'm missing somethign.
04:18:28soap(besides spelling skills)
04:18:58Lloreansoap: Not that I can think of. It's most likely "old bootloader, new Rockbox"
04:19:02saratogathere is no 40GB ipod 3G
04:19:49 Quit ajonat ()
04:19:56sjekLLorean: well, nevermind, its a hypothetical, I was thinking over serial (I have a serial/usb cable, somewhere) and block mounting it (not unlike DeCSS)
04:20:23soapHow would he get /anything/ if he were putting a 3G build on a 4G?
04:20:39sjekLlorean: but yeh, nevermind, I'll try leaving it plugged in. Thanks for the help:)
04:20:46ameyersoap: is that even easily possible?
04:21:17scorcheameyer: just copy the file over...
04:21:50Lloreansoap, saratoga: Two possibilities maybe: 1) Replaced HD. 2) iPod Loader 2 may not check the binary is for the right device (unlike our bootloader) though I'd imagine it'd crash or fail sooner and/or more creatively?
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04:22:58soapThat's what I was getting at. The 4G has a different CPU, and our wiki lists it as having a different "keypad, backlight, and ATA"
04:23:21soapHave a hard time believing it would boot at all...
04:24:13LloreanMy guess is that he's just used RBUtil to install, and is personally mis-identifying his iPod's generation.
04:24:23LloreanMaybe he thinks "Photo is 4G, mine's grayscale so it must be 3G" or something similar.
04:24:51LloreanBut we should find out how he installed.
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04:32:19soapI threw the chkdsk line in there because I was grasping at straws.
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04:33:32JdGordon|uniis anyone against the idea of adding a wps tag for "volume is changing" (and probably add "seeking" also)?
04:34:05scorche"volume is changing"?
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04:34:41JdGordon|uniso we could have interesting screen transisions like the sansa OF does when you change volume
04:34:45JdGordon|unijust a bit of themeing fun
04:36:38webguest47I'm a bit of a newbie with rockbox, and I'm having some trouble with my Gigabeat F40. My database just keeps rebuilding and rebuilding, and I'm not sure why
04:37:01webguest47I was hoping someone here could offer some assistance
04:37:51webguest47I've turned the diskcache on, and the option to load database to RAM
04:38:28*ameyer wishes the ipod was compatible with Sansa chargers/usb cables
04:38:59webguest47I've checked that all my songs are tagged, yet there are a number of ones listed as untagged, and multiple entries of other songs. I've tried re-initializing a couple of times, but it doesn't seem to get rid of the duplicates.
04:39:12*scorche thinks that ameyer's offtopic wishes should stay out of this channel
04:40:33ameyerwebguest47: (WARNING:don't do this until someone who knows the code confirms I'm not completely insane) perhaps the database files are corrupted in a way that causes that and you should delete them?
04:40:45 Quit XavierGr ()
04:40:53scorchedeleting the *.tcd files will not have any harmful effect
04:41:16webguest47thanks ameyer...I thought that might be an option, but I'm not sure how to go about that
04:41:37ameyerthey should be in .rockbox
04:41:38webguest47scorche..are the .tcd files the only ones I should delete?
04:41:45scorcheplug the device in, navigate to .rockbox, delete all *.tcd files
04:41:50scorchewebguest47: yup
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04:42:18ameyerworst case, you end up with no DB until you manage to fix the actual cause
04:42:26webguest47I'll try it right now
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04:45:19webguest47okay, it's rebuilding as I type...I'll keep my fingers crossed.
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04:49:37webguest47Hmmm...seems to still be having problems, but the duplicates are gone, which is something
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04:50:54webguest47When I select a song from the database, it still gives me a "searching" message and counts (either up or down) through my songs before finally playing the selected song.
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04:53:32Lloreanwebguest47: That "searching" message isn't a problem.
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04:55:53webguest47thanks for the response, Llorean...that's normal? I just didn't remember seeing it before
04:56:24Lloreanwebguest47: Absolutely normal
04:57:31webguest47okay, thank you...I think that everything is working, then! Thanks to Llorean, scorche, and ameyer!
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05:17:30saratogaanyone like the idea of adding a complementary table to "Current status of supported targets" that would be for ports that are built but not yet support [gigabeat S, etc] saying what currently works?
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05:17:51saratogaon the TargetStatus wiki page
05:18:38saratogamaybe add "display", "sound" and "disk/flash" catagories
05:22:37Unhelpfulif the right balance can be struck between providing the same information/format per target, and documenting target-specific quirk, that sounds like a good idea to me
05:23:15Unhelpfulmaybe a "comments" column for target oddities, so you can write in things like "needs FS #9312 to charge"?
05:24:36saratogai wasn't even going to be that specific
05:24:49saratogajust a simple yes/no for things like display, audio, disk
05:25:24Lloreansaratoga: So "Current status of incomplete targets" maybe?
05:25:30Unhelpfulfor targets where things are that bad, another table might be smart?
05:26:02saratogayes the idea is two tables
05:26:09saratogasince theres currently two sections anyway
05:27:10Unhelpfuli'd call the S "working", even if it's not supported, but i know there are a few issues that still bother others, and not having the charging patch is a very big issues for end users until it gets into svn.
05:27:48ameyerUnhelpful: especially without dual boot
05:28:28Unhelpfuland dual-boot is non-trivial. is the V updater that the nk.bin used for S dual-boot readily available?
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05:30:43saratogathere is no nk.bin available that can dual boot with the S except the one that comes with the disk
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05:34:39Unhelpfulah. i thought the one that used to be on GigabeatSInfo was from the hacked V updater
05:37:42saratogaif anyone is familar with the Mezu, Creative, or Cowan ports, feel free to update that page
05:39:19Unhelpfulsaratoga: it would appear that the nk.bin is the same as the one in the hacked V updater. rbutil could possibly support dual-boot by getting the updater from Toshiba, and extracting and patching the nk.bin?
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05:39:37saratogaUnhelpful: its not the same nk.bin
05:40:51saratoganow if I could get Bagder to update the front page link to TargetStatus so that people actually realize they should read it
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05:45:56Unhelpfulsaratoga: the GigabeatSRecover archive that used to be linked from GigabeatSInfo claims to be the patched V updater, and contains an nk.bin identical to the one in GigabeatSFirmware. is that claim incorrect?
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05:47:13saratogaUnhelpful: sounds like it
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05:47:37saratogathough as i recall, the V updater was patched to use the S nk.bin
05:50:39Unhelpfulaccording to zunepet's forum post, it's a one-byte edit to change a string indicating the product from 'V' to 'S'. if that's true, and the nk.bin can be extracted from the V updater with reasonable effort, dual-boot shouldn't be hard
05:53:19saratogaif you can get an S nk.bin out of there, go for it
06:01:20Unhelpfulugh. the official download is blocked by a page that checks serial numbers :/
06:01:59Unhelpfulclearly rbutil can't get it from *there* :/
06:02:15ameyerunless it could get to the serial number somehow...
06:02:19Unhelpfuli'll look at this more later. right now is time for bed.
06:02:48ameyerof course, there probably are legal issues in that case...
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06:05:04Lloreanameyer: Except that S serial numbers probably won't work to request a V download.
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06:15:25Unhelpfulbest bet is if there's an unprotected direct link to the V updater. probably need somebody with a V to be able to see what the URL would be
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06:22:17toffe82Unhelpful: The updater for the V doesn't contain the nk.bin of the S ,it is just the program updater which was patch recognize the S so it can load a nk.bin (the one of the S)
06:22:42toffe82to recognize the S
06:23:05Unhelpfuland until there's an update for the S (ie, never) there won't be a downloadable file that contains the nk.bin :/
06:23:10toffe82you need to a nk.bin of the S, and the only way actually is taking it from the hard driver
06:23:18toffe82dirve :)
06:23:52toffe82drive , what is wrong with my keyboard :0
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06:25:25toffe82I tried to use the mtppk from microsoft to see if there was some kind of function that can help.
06:26:34toffe82there is a copy function and a move function we could use , but when you open the program, it doesn't see the hidden partition
06:27:24toffe82even giving the parameter of the nk.bin (taken from a log of usb monitor) it doesn't work .
06:27:37toffe82Perhaps somebody can try again
06:29:37Waldo000000hi all, at TWikiRegistration, how secure is the registration form? i'm guessing i should not use a valuable password?
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06:33:34Waldo000000can i have edit permissions for the TWiki, please? User: RoyWallace
06:39:33LloreanWaldo000000: As a general rule, if you're worried about security you should never, ever re-use a valuable password.
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06:43:14Waldo000000Llorean: indeed, i was just trying to ascertain how worried i should be. nevermind, though :) did you see my request for edit permissions?
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06:50:18aarcanehallo mortals, immortals
06:50:28aarcaneI come with questions regarding ipodloader
06:51:27advcomp2019aarcane, what are they.. we can not guess
06:52:58aarcaneI want to know if 1) ipod loader can be installed without an apple firmware in the firmware partition, and 2) if it can be used to choose between several apple ipod firmware versions each in a separate file on the partition
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07:01:54advcomp2019i think it needs to be a working ipod and i do not know since i do not have an ipod
07:03:14aarcaneaww, well I have a perfectly working ipod, I just want to use it to boot a few different modified firmwares for me that I made with ipodwizard
07:05:30scorcheare you referring to the ipodlinux bootloader?
07:05:46scorchethere is no "ipodloader"
07:06:04aarcaneno, I'm referring to the rockbox loader2 for the ipod which also supports ipod linux and the official apple firmware
07:06:18scorcheloader2 is the ipodlinux bootloader
07:06:27scorcheit is not our software and is offtopic here
07:06:45aarcaneoh, that's odd. the ipodlinux wiki says it's the rockbox bootloader
07:07:16scorchethere is a rockbox bootloader that we *do* support, but loader2 is not it
07:07:36scorcheit probably says that it can boot rockbox, but i doubt it says it is our bootloader
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07:09:06aarcanehrrm, okay then
07:09:10aarcanesorry to bug you guys then :)
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09:44:42JdGordonhow do the true/false conditionals work in the wps? the first one is false isnt it?
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09:47:50pixelma2no, first is the true one
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09:48:53*JdGordon has 2 new wps tags working
09:49:04LloreanWhat tags?
09:49:05JdGordonjust needs someone ith some imagination to use them
09:49:36JdGordontags to say if the volume or seek buttons are being pressed
09:50:19*n1s nags people to test ipod bootloaders in FS #9369
09:50:38LloreanJdGordon: We shouldn't need one for seeking
09:50:44LloreanJdGordon: There's already a conditional that covers that.
09:51:10LloreanVolume needs one, but "Am I seeking" is the same as the one used for FF or RW icons (either of those would be "yes, I'm seeking" and you could use them in the exact same places)
09:51:29JdGordonoh right
09:53:47pixelmaJdGordon: so, the volume one basically works like the volume info in the plain status bar? You could have it display the volume numerical while adjusting and graphical otherwise?
09:55:08JdGordondinner time, back in 30 or so
09:59:59LloreanJdGordon: Would it make sense to have a "How long to stay true" parameter. For example, I usually press volume as individual presses rather than holding it, so I'd want it to stay True about 0.5 seconds after I released the button so it wasn't constantly flickering while I pressed (on the other hand, I don't think there should be any delay going False->True, just a delay going back True->False). Other people also might want to hide the vo
10:00:49linuxstbJdGordon: "stuff for the button handling" isn't a helpful comment... How about saying "Used for the %Bv conditional - stores the value of current_tick the last time the volume was changed in the WPS"
10:01:54linuxstbLlorean: That sounds like it should be a user setting, rather than a parameter to the tag in the .wps file. But hopefully a timeout can be found that suits everyone...
10:02:37Lloreanlinuxstb: I'm not so sure.
10:03:33Lloreanlinuxstb: For example, one WPS might want to display numeric volume during adjustments, so have a quick timeout, while another might want to show a large, fine grained volume bar while adjusting but none when done with a 2-second timeout to mimic Apple's screen.
10:03:42LloreanIt seems more like a "stylistic" option (to me) than a user preference.
10:04:08LloreanBut I can see it going either way, and I certainly wouldn't mind it as a user setting, or even a constant (if it's in the 0.5-1 second range or so)
10:04:43linuxstbI'm not sure it deserves a setting... I guess it just needs some experimentation
10:06:05LloreanI'm happy as long as it doesn't flicker, personally. I just expect users would like a variable delay.
10:06:26pixelmawhat does "Bv" stand for "Button volume"? I can imagine some confusion with "bv" although I know it is hard finding something unique with just 2 characters...
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10:08:35linuxstbMaybe %mv ? To go with the other "mode" tags.
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10:10:40LloreanSounds good to me.
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10:42:47JdGordonLlorean: can conditionals have parameters? I didnt want to have to use 2 tags for it
10:43:47LloreanJdGordon: I really don't know.
10:44:28JdGordonbut yeah, I wanted to use a timeout also
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11:52:57LloreanSpeaking of databases in the other channel, how much of our database code pertains to the generation (as opposed to the access and use)?
11:53:17LloreanCould we decrease binary size in a useful way by making the generation happen in a plugin?
11:54:01*JdGordon nudges Slasheri
11:54:22B4gdernot a bad idea
11:54:26linuxstbThat would also need to include the startup code that scans for new files and updates.
11:54:27JdGordonassume that 80% of tagcache.c is pluginisable and there is your answer...
11:54:37JdGordonalthough what ever happened to not wanting to move core stuff into rocks?
11:55:03LloreanJdGordon: In the past you could only generate the database from the PC anyway, right?
11:55:09LloreanI don't know if database generation is *too* core.
11:55:24JdGordonI dont remember before tagcache so dunno
11:55:36linuxstbIt could also be a motivation to build a database-building lib that could potentially be used externally...
11:55:37JdGordonand I think db is at least as much core as settings are
11:55:54B4gderto me it isn't
11:56:00*linuxstb doesn't know if he thinks it is a good idea though...
11:56:06n1swho uses the db anyway? ;P
11:56:08B4gderyou can live a fine rockbox life without database, but hardly without settings
11:56:26LloreanIf your ability to generate the db is lost, you can still access your music to a limited extent.
11:56:38JdGordonmost of them are set and forget, so you could live just as easily without settings
11:56:40LloreanIf your "settings" plugin is lost, you may have a player left in an unusable state until you get to a PC
11:57:01JdGordonbut anyway.. thats a different discusssion
11:57:25B4gderJdGordon: the settings would need to get read on startup etc
11:57:28LloreanI don't _really_ think it'd be bad to offload settings, but I'm definitely in the "Database generation is much less core than settings"
11:57:47JdGordonthe usual problems come up.. cant do anything untill the db is ready if its in a rock
11:57:58LloreanJdGordon: Sure you can.
11:58:40linuxstbAnyone know how much code the database is anyway? i.e. what do you save by disabling it?
11:58:49gevaertsAnother big difference between settings and database is that database is going to touch the disk anyway, so havint to spin up is not as big an issue
11:58:51Lloreanlinuxstb: disabling it allows you to build rombox still, IIRC.
11:58:57JdGordonsure, but no playlist viewing, other plugins, etc...
11:59:02B4gderI'm not in the "decrease bin size to any price" camp anyway
11:59:14B4gderso I'm not very much in favour of this direction
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11:59:58LloreanB4gder: Only reason I brought it up is because it might be a pretty significant savings, and possibly even add some flexibility (alternate generation plugins for users who only want a few tags to be indexed, to make their database smaller for example)
12:00:21*linuxstb thinks we need numbers before debating whether it's a good idea
12:00:31B4gderdoesn't the database also occupy memory at a fixed size?
12:00:31*gevaerts agrees with linuxstb
12:00:32JdGordonsomeone check out the size of tagcache.o ?
12:00:44JdGordonB4gder: only if its loaded in ram
12:00:48LloreanJdGordon: 36k as of the sqlite tracker entry.
12:00:52JdGordonthen its alloced
12:00:58B4gderyes, but doesn't people use the loaded in ram?
12:01:30JdGordonBut, we are talking about offloading the database generation.. not runtime
12:01:40JdGordons/runtime/run logic
12:01:49B4gderI'm discussing both
12:01:54B4gderyou can join me! ;-)
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12:02:22LloreanB4gder: Offloading the database browser too *would* allow some pretty interesting user replacements for the browser to be included
12:02:35B4gderI mean, if it would be a plugin it would be weird to allow it to have a fixed amount of memory allocated
12:02:49LloreanSince we'd increase the size limit for the database browser from "let's keep it lean" to "do whatever you want, Pictureflow + A graphical fade into animated sorting, sure!"
12:03:14LloreanBut I've more or less been in favour, instead, of being able to have .rock files as a "filter" in the database
12:03:34LloreanYou pass the results of the previous search to them, and get back a new list of results when the plugin's done running.
12:03:53JdGordonso you want to load a plugin every time you enter the db browser!? no way... generation in a rock has my vote though
12:03:58LloreanOffers the same kind of flexibility, in a way, but leaves the basic database functionality alone and always available.
12:06:10JdGordonjust by the way... the same could be done for the wps... As I demonstrated ages ago....
12:07:01B4gderindeed, and I voted for the entire wps being replacable
12:07:23LloreanSo, pluginify the WPS parsing/drawing?
12:07:37linuxstbWe could always have a second plugin buffer - for "core" features.
12:07:45B4gderbasically a plugin loaded instead of WPS, and it would have access to the informations the WPS can show
12:08:04LloreanB4gder: Ah, so drop .wps files altogether, and have wps plugins instead?
12:08:18B4gderas an addition to the .wps
12:08:26B4gderso simple themes would remain as today
12:08:37B4gderthe wild and crazy write a replacement .rock
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12:09:13LloreanAnd then the content of wildcrazy.wps is just %UR|replacement.rock| or some such?
12:09:27B4gderyes, that could work
12:09:31LloreanI mean, you could almost do that now, right?
12:09:54LloreanYou could export ID3 data to plugins (if it isn't already), and they can be run during playback, so you'd just need a tag.
12:09:59B4gderit does have a certain degree of resistance in the plain fact that you need to provide binaries for all targets
12:10:05JdGordonor better yet, pass a viewport into a rock and have it draw into that as a TSR
12:10:06LloreanI mean, VUMeter is, in a very basic sense, a plugin WPS
12:10:09linuxstbB4gder: Java ;)
12:10:27LloreanB4gder: People don't even provide .wps files that work on all targets.
12:10:42LloreanSo, at least to me, that's no resistance. :)
12:11:14gevaertsFor wps the "you can't do anything else" argument also suddenly disappears.
12:11:38JdGordon_not entirely... you can still only have 1 wps rock going at a time
12:11:48JdGordon_but each one could have heaps of added tags
12:12:05LloreanJdGordon: Passing a viewport seems like it'd be a little more challenging, since then you'd need a wpsrock that can handle being drawn in arbitrary sizes. I think just fullscreen rocks is *probably* good enough, since the rock itself can then partition up the screen to show whatever it wants.
12:12:26LloreanEven if only one can go at once, there's very little practical limit to how many things that one can do.
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12:13:01LloreanI mean, since it's a .rock, it can seize the controls and turn it into, practically, a different player for those who *really* want the OF behaviour in the WPS.
12:13:16JdGordon_well, you would probably end up passing a string to the plugin and it would decide what needs doing
12:13:36LloreanI'd almost rather it work without being passed anything.
12:13:41pixelmawell, what if someone would like to have the vumeter or oscilloscope displayed in a part of the screen? But honestly I can't imagine at the moment how this should work at all and find it quite confusing
12:13:41LloreanWhy do you need to pass it something?
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12:14:58*linuxstb also suspects such a "hard-coded" WPS would also be far more runtime efficient
12:15:28JdGordonwell the people that would use this wont care about efficiency
12:15:57JdGordonLlorean: I'm tihnking more that plugins would "do" tags instead of entire screens so you still have the current flexibility
12:16:04LloreanI mean, the way I see it, you should be able to run a wpsrock separately just by clicking it, and get the same effect as if it were loaded through the WPS system.
12:16:26JdGordonno way... not if it excpets the wps data to be valid
12:16:31linuxstbWhat about remotes?
12:16:39LloreanJdGordon: As long as you don't remove the old normal WPS system, you keep the old flexibility anyway.
12:16:56LloreanI don't see any reason why WPS plugins need to be interpreting tags, when they can just be coded to do *anything* and be vastly more flexible.
12:17:16JdGordonnot when you might have 3 visualization plugins and the user might like 1 but the wps he wants requires a differnt one
12:17:23LloreanI mean, if they wanted to have tags, then you create a wpsplugin that has its own .cfg file, and can be directed to its own plugin WPS files, for example
12:17:33LloreanThere's no reason to "restrict" it by demanding it get its data through the existing wps system.
12:17:53LloreanI see the plugins as encapsulating a new form of WPS, not the old WPS encapsulating plugins.
12:18:17LloreanBut then I see this more as a way to _really_ customize your player, rather than just a way to stuff a visualization in a viewport.
12:18:27JdGordonsure, why not do both?
12:18:47LloreanJdGordon: My way allows both a little more than yours does.
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12:19:15LloreanJdGordon: With mine, a plugin could be compiled with 5 or 6 different visualizations, and parse new WPS tags that tell it which ones to display when, or where, and have a button mapped for cycling through them.
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12:19:40JdGordonthen you would need to compile the core wps syntax into it?
12:19:46LloreanI just see plugins as "taking over instead of the old WPS code" rather than "being inside it"
12:20:02LloreanJdGordon: If you wanted your plugin to have full WPS support, yes.
12:20:48JdGordonmy idea is adding a tag to load a wps rock, it would then register its tags and when one of them comes up the core loads that tags entry point
12:21:01gevaertsJdGordon: your proposal seems to require being able to run several plugins at the same time. I think that that may be a problem
12:21:23JdGordondepends... you could build multiple tags into it
12:21:33LloreanIt still seems limiting
12:21:38LloreanSince it then means you're still forced to be tag based.
12:22:30*gevaerts likes Llorean's proposal for the simplicity of adding support for it. It's basically just exporting a bit more information to the plugin api
12:22:34LloreanI'd like to see plugins that don't use .wps code at all. Instead they're just hard coded to take certain ID3 data and display it in interesting ways (for example, a matrix-effect plugin where the letters falling highlight horizontal strings of artist, album, title)
12:22:36JdGordonhow would you get the customizability from seperate plugins?
12:23:06JdGordonLlorean: that could be done now, in svn with no changes to the core at all
12:23:23LloreanJdGordon: As a WPS that loads automatically when you start playback, though?
12:23:23JdGordon(unless the id3 struct isnt in the api yet)
12:23:44JdGordonyou'd get the same effect from running it from the plugins menu
12:23:51*JdGordon cant see why both cant be done
12:23:53LloreanThat's all my proposal is, is the very simple addition of "allow a plugin to be run instead of the wps, by a wps file" and "give plugins access to the ID3 struct if they don't have it"
12:24:09LloreanJdGordon: As I said, I feel they should be able to also be run from the plugins menu.
12:24:10linuxstbLlorean: So these would be normal plugins, run in the current plugin buffer?
12:24:18Lloreanlinuxstb: Exactly.
12:24:30JdGordonLlorean: ok, I got confused before
12:24:31Lloreanlinuxstb: Though I do see this as being a problem with battery_bench.
12:24:33linuxstbLlorean: Then what about battery bench... And all the other ways the plugin RAM is stolen?
12:24:48Lloreanlinuxstb: Any other situation where the plugin ram is stolen, you're not in the WPS any more.
12:24:59JdGordoneither no bench, build bench into the plugin lib, or into the core
12:25:06LloreanWith battery bench, it just means you can't benchmark "advanced" WPSes, only "classic" WPSes
12:25:37LloreanSince we prefer benches be done with the default WPS anyway, I'm not too sure it's a large concern.
12:25:37*linuxstb would prefer a new "wps plugin buffer", where the existing wps code would also be moved to
12:25:48Lloreanlinuxstb: That's an option too.
12:26:01linuxstbAnd a new "wps API"...
12:26:07Lloreanlinuxstb: But I think there's a simplicity in my starting point at least, since it requires more or less a very minimum of changes.
12:26:20linuxstbPlus a "libwps" that writers of WPS rocks can link to...
12:26:47JdGordonand move the current stuff out of the core? and replace it with a very minimilistc static display?
12:26:56JdGordonwelcome back rombox!
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12:28:27linuxstbAnd this would make WPS licensing easy - they would have to be GPL...
12:28:44JdGordon... but why stop there? split the list drawing code out also... then people could have stupid menu transitions, or massive icons and grids... turn rockbox into a regular os and strip the entire apps/ (- playback engine) out into rocks... </mild sarcasm>
12:30:27*gevaerts points out that doing that sort of things may well be the way to support ultra-low-ram targets like the clip properly
12:31:43JdGordonnew objective for 4.0... make a new build with just the playback/codec/voice engine
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12:34:01*linuxstb isn't sure how many theme designers are C programmers though... (and vice-versa)
12:35:01Lloreanlinuxstb: I'd hazard at somewhere between "slim" and "none"
12:35:12pixelmaI am not much of the latter
12:35:21LloreanA lot of them find installing patches a daunting task, let alone writing them.
12:36:12GodEaterthere are theme authors out there who aren't clueless though. Look at E17's themes - they're orders of magnitude more complex than a current WPS theme.
12:36:30gevaertsAs far as I can see, wps-plugins don't throw out the existing mechanism. Maybe that can get moved out of the core (to a plugin), but that's about it
12:36:49LloreanGodEater: That's why I'd just like to offer the option to have an empty .wps file call a .rock
12:37:19GodEateryep - I agree
12:37:42LloreanWith a .rock you can basically institute your own WPS syntax if you feel the need, or just visualize, or do whatever the heck else you like.
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12:38:26linuxstbOr implement a scripting language, depending on how much RAM we decide we want to allocate to it...
12:38:48GodEaterhow is lua coming along ? :)
12:38:51*linuxstb hands someone a copy of yacc
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12:39:24Lloreanlinuxstb: Well, we could start by just using the existing plugin buffer, and add this additional "WPS plugin buffer" at a later date without dropping support for using full plugins as the WPS.
12:39:45JdGordon_linuxstb: we dont need to allocate any extra ram, the current wps is usgin a heap of ram anyway, we can use that
12:39:51LloreanThe current one could use .rock files, and the smaller WPS buffer could just use a different extension.
12:40:00linuxstbJdGordon_: I didn't say _extra_ ram...
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12:42:58pixelmaand then people would be able to use different button mappings in their wps.rock? *still trying to understand the suggestion(s)*
12:43:28linuxstbpixelma: That would be debatable... It depends what the "WPS API" provides.
12:44:42*GodEater thinks providing alternative button maps through it would be a bad idea
12:44:48pixelmaI still can't imagine how this should work completely, things like playlist/playbak handling and such
12:45:01pixelmaplayback too
12:45:19LloreanGodEater: If you just let it use any .rock as the WPS, alternate buttonmapping is unavoidable.
12:45:34GodEateryes, if we go with the existing plugin api
12:45:46pixelmahow are you going to view or manipulate the current playlist, how does seek and skip work?
12:45:48GodEaterI think linuxstb's suggestion of a WPS api is a good one
12:45:52LloreanThe way I see it right now, I could go and add %whatever|vumeter.rock| to my .wps and then any time I ran music (or hit "Resume Playback") I'd be kicked into the existing VUMeter plugin
12:46:13LloreanWhy do we need to limit it with a WPS api?
12:46:17*linuxstb thought the reasons why core features shouldn't be moved to normal plugins had been discussed to death before
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12:47:00Lloreanlinuxstb: This isn't "moving a core feature" though.
12:47:10LloreanThe old WPS syntax, and old WPSes, will still be in the core and be compatible.
12:47:15GodEaterLlorean: we don't *need* to, I just think it's a good idea
12:47:29LloreanGodEater: Alright then, allow me to rephrase. What benefit do we gain from limiting it?
12:47:44GodEaterless support nightmares :)
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12:47:57LloreanNothing says we have to accept plugins with nonstandard mappings for SVN
12:48:03GodEater"I installed uber-wps "a", and now my play button doesn't do what it used to"
12:48:11LloreanAnd people can already do non-standard mappings for unsupported builds anyway.
12:48:43GodEaterif we made a special wps-api, we could probably arrange for it not to go version-incompatible quite as often as the plugin-api does
12:48:50LloreanMeanwhile, I think there are cases where you'd *want* to bypass certain button functions.
12:49:01GodEaterand therefore leave these super-WPSs around for people to use across versions ?
12:49:48Lloreanthe plugin API doesn't really go version incompatible that often, as long as people add things to the end of it, right?
12:50:25GodEaterthat may be so, but we're always telling people not install .rocks from one version into a differently versioned rockbox install
12:50:31LloreanI just think it'd be nice to be able to have an interchangeability there, where some plugins can serve as plugin or WPS (like VUMeter or Oscilloscope can currently)
12:51:01gevaertsWho says that controls should be limited to buttons? You could get creative and use this to implement sound-related games and applications. ("Answer five questions correctly, and you get to go to the next track", or "kill this monster to pause")
12:51:40*GodEater is reminded of the port of "ps" to the doom engine
12:51:48GodEaterwhere you ran round and killed monsters to kill processes
12:51:54Lloreangevaerts: Or just have, for example, a "party mode" plugin where people can vote on the next song from within the current playlist, or request songs that are then shuffled in (and moved up) based on how many people request them, etc.
12:52:32linuxstbThey all sound like normal plugins, not a WPS...
12:52:36*GodEater cannot imagine explaining that successfully to a party of drunk people who've never seen Rockbox before
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12:53:09gevaertsLlorean: that needs advanced playlist interaction, so it may be a bit harder to do, but yes, why not?
12:53:21Lloreanlinuxstb: The point (to me) is that any plugin that makes use of, and displays, audio metadata should be able to be set as "the default WPS" instead of always only being accessible through the plugin list (again, back to my oscilloscope/vumeter mention)
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12:53:51gevaertsExactly, that's all there is to it
12:53:55GodEaterI imagine some people would come up with some fancy visualisation sorts of plugins too
12:54:12Lloreanlinuxstb: I'm not necessarily against wps-specific plugins and API, mind you. I just think there needs to be a way to call "real" plugins instead of a WPS (which could even be considered a separate feature)
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12:54:50linuxstbYes, I would say your suggestion and mine are two completely different feature ideas.
12:54:57LloreanAnd not mutually exclusive, by any shot.
12:55:10pixelmaso, if you want to view the current playlist from within such a plugin, it woul need to "unload" the wps.rock, "spinup the disk" and load the playlist viewer?
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12:55:35Lloreanpixelma: From within a real plugin used as a WPS, assuming it didn't have a pluginized way of viewing the playlist, yes.
12:55:49LloreanI can very easily see someone including a customized playlist viewer as part of the functionality of some of these.
12:56:06pixelmahow do skips work?
12:56:18Lloreanpixelma: In most, I'd assume "by pressing right"...
12:56:23gevaertspixelma: we could have a pluginlib function that handles that sort of thing, much like the current playback menu in plugins
12:56:38LloreanIf you look in Jewels, there's already a menu to control playback. You could just as easily assign those to the ordinary buttons if you didn't need the ordinary buttons for controlling the game.
12:57:07pixelmaLlorean: I meant more internally... I am not sure how the plugin "knows" the next or previous track
12:57:09GodEaterpixelma: I don't think Llorean is suggesting that all plugins would make great WPS screens
12:57:12GodEaterthey definitely wouldn't
12:57:34GodEaterand it doesn't *need* to know the next or previous track, it leaves that up to the playback engine surely ?
12:57:54GodEaterall it has to do is make sure the "play next" event gets sent there when the user selects to listen to the next track
12:57:57pixelmaas I said, I'm still trying to understand
12:58:09GodEatersure :)
12:58:22*GodEater thinks someone needs to cook up a demo :)
12:58:55Lloreanpixelma: You can skip to the next track using the playback menu in Jewels, so I assume the functionality already exists for this, and you just need to access it via a button rather than a menu.
12:59:28pixelmayeah, I see that now
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13:18:54funmanthe SD interface in the Clip definitely answers (by telling me to better read the documents :P ) to my commands
13:21:10linuxstbfunman: I saw your photo in the forum thread - does that mean you have a Rockbox LCD driver working?
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13:29:28B4gderand why is it so blurry? ;-)
13:29:34funmanlinuxstb: yes I pushed it in the gitorious repository
13:29:43funmanB4gder: I was too excited, my hands were shaking ;)
13:30:04*linuxstb needs to try and keep up with funman and commit code to Rockbox SVN...
13:30:26funmanI literally copied the rockbox functions from the ssd1805 driver
13:30:52funmanlinuxstb: well, take this repository as patches sent to you :-)
13:31:11*linuxstb has never used git
13:31:21funmanI neglected some stuff, for example the interrupts handler
13:31:25funmanlinuxstb: time to learn !
13:31:34linuxstbWhat ssd1805 driver?
13:31:55*LambdaCalculus37 thinks he'd better go catch up with some log reading
13:31:56funmantcc77x/lcd-ssd1815.c (not 1805 sorry)
13:32:14linuxstbOK, that's familiar then,..
13:32:42funmana little difference is that the Clip screen controller has 2 columns out of the screen at the left and right
13:32:58funmanbecause the controller is 132 columns wide, and the screen 128
13:33:28linuxstbThe telechips devices that driver was written for are also 128 wide - but IIRC they are just missing 4 columns on one side.,
13:33:37funmanyou can give all the glory to atomicpunk, I only tested his work and modified it until it worked
13:34:18funmanit was missing a power(?) enable on a gpio pin
13:35:03linuxstbMaybe we'll be as lucky with the other LCDs in the V2 devices - i.e. have ready-made Rockbox drivers.
13:36:36funmanI'm not sure since the screens are bigger / coloured
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13:36:37LambdaCalculus37funman: You managed to get something to display on a Sansa V2 screen?
13:37:09linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: A Clip (v1)
13:37:33funmanLambdaCalculus37: here is proof
13:38:00linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: Turns out that it has the same LCD controller as the Archos bitmap devices and the mono Telechips targets.
13:38:30LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Get right out of town! :P
13:39:02LambdaCalculus37That should make things simpler now. :)
13:39:27funmanyes, ata driver will follow shortly
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13:39:46funmanit's very well documented fortunately
13:40:04LambdaCalculus37That's good to hear.
13:41:48*afry smile
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13:45:26linuxstbfunman: BTW, what did you mean by "bigger/coloured" ? Rockbox has drivers for lots of big colour LCDs...
13:45:58funmanlinuxstb: I thought you mean the driver for clip could be reused as is, not that there would be existing drivers in rockbox
13:46:12funmanthe e200v2 controller is mentioned on the port wiki page
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13:49:12pixelmawhat's the screen resolution of the clip? 128x...
13:49:57pixelmaah, like ifp/Logik Dax etc.
13:50:45linuxstbYes, but the top 16 lines are yellow, and the bottom 48 lines blue...
13:51:11LambdaCalculus37And there's no way to change that, right?
13:51:11LambdaCalculus37And there's no way to change that, right?
13:51:17*LambdaCalculus37 kicks X-Chat
13:51:33*linuxstb looks at funman for an answer...
13:51:44pixelmayou mean doom and videos will look odd? ;)
13:51:57LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Blue Doom? ;)
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13:52:13funmanthe yellow and blue lines are separated by a 1 or 2 pixels wide line
13:53:18*LambdaCalculus37 has to see a Clip screen up close again to see what funman means
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13:54:06LloreanIt's certainly going to make the Rockbox UI/list look interesting.
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13:55:02linuxstbIt will more or less limit you to either an 8-pixel high font (with a status bar), or 16-pixel (without a status bar)
13:55:06B4gderodd design choce
13:55:27amiconnMaybe handle them as 2 distinct displays?
13:55:31funmanthe yellow lines are usually the status
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13:56:08amiconnOr 2 "root" viewports
13:57:15linuxstbamiconn: I thought about that, but I think it will be fine as it is - most lists have a title anyway, so the 8-pixel status bar and title would be yellow, and the list contents blue (with an 8pixel font)
13:58:08Lloreanlinuxstb: We'd probably want to add a blank line to any lists that don't have a title, then?
13:58:43pixelmafunman: the 1 or 2 separator lines - ar they a part of the 64 pixels or is it 16 pixels + space +48 pixels?
13:58:53linuxstbLlorean: Yes, or add a title...
13:59:09Lloreanlinuxstb: Something like just "Rockbox" for the main menu?
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13:59:31funmanpixelma: I am not sure, I didn't check exactly
13:59:43funmanlet me verify
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14:01:22funmanpixelma: it seems they are 'removed' from the blue lines
14:01:36funmanso in the order: 16 yellow lines, 2 black (off) lines, 46 blue lines
14:02:15B4gder46 is a lovely number...
14:02:24funmanthat's what I see on the screen datasheet, maybe we should check programmatically
14:02:49B4gderthey should've gone with a prime number to make it perfect!
14:02:52linuxstbHmm, that's nasty then...
14:03:05funmanor a real number
14:03:20B4gderwhat does the OF use at the bottom of the screen? I take it they have an 8 pixel font?
14:03:21linuxstbAre you sure there are not another 2 lines at the end to compensate?
14:03:24funman"to get the screen dimensions, you have to solve the following equations"
14:03:41funmanyes it looks like 8 pixels font
14:04:02linuxstbI thought it was bigger - i.e. only 3 lines of text?
14:04:05funmanin rockbox it seems 8 pixels font is used as well, because I can scroll 8 pixels high lines, and the text inside looks ok
14:04:05LloreanLooks like a 16 pixel font
14:04:29LloreanWell, "16" including line spacing, rather
14:04:39B4gderyes, so it could be 14 + 2 empty
14:04:51B4gderbut we'll see
14:04:56funmanLlorean: ah right
14:05:18LloreanB4gder: It looks more like 10 or 12 + several empty
14:05:32B4gderyes, but still it could be that the bottom 2 lines simply aren't used
14:07:01funmanthe 8 pixels font of rockbox is 7 pixels + 1 empty line ?
14:07:06*Llorean thinks maybe we need the custom list positioning, so we can just position the list in the blue area and ignore it.
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14:09:18funmanIf I printf() on every line, all the characters are displayed fine
14:10:21linuxstbAre you displaying characters with "tails" - e.g. "g", "y" etc?
14:10:51funmanhm nop
14:13:39funmanthe bottom y & g are fine
14:13:43funmanand the q has a 1 pixel tail
14:14:48*gevaerts suddenly realises something
14:15:12gevaertsLlorean: isn't the lyrics plugin on the tracker basically a plugin-based WPS?
14:15:45linuxstbfunman: You could just try drawing horizontal lines at positions 0, 15, 16 and 63
14:16:11funmanis there a lcd_draw_line() or similar ?
14:16:24linuxstbYes - see the GraphicsAPI wiki page
14:16:50linuxstbOr firmware/drivers/lcd-1bit-vert.c
14:17:48linuxstbSo "lcd_hline(0,LCD_WIDTH-1,y);"
14:18:48linuxstb(four times, followed by a call to "lcd_update();" )
14:19:19Lloreangevaerts: I don't know, I've never tried it so I don't know if it has any playback control or anything
14:20:14gevaertsLlorean: its documentation says it has
14:20:40LloreanThen yes, I guess it would qualify as one.
14:20:50gevaertsSee FS #7432 for details
14:21:26funmanthe screen is 64 lines: 16 yellow, 2 black, 48 blue
14:21:39LloreanThat's 66 lines.
14:23:01funmansee you later
14:23:05markungevaerts: lcd-m6sl.c line 126, shouldn't the comment be "possibly 0x76" ?
14:23:11linuxstbfunman: So what was displayed when you displayed lines on rows 0, 15, 16 and 63?
14:23:23funmanlinuxstb: lines
14:23:39linuxstbTwo yellow and two blue, but with a gap between them?
14:24:06funmanI drew one at 61 to be sure
14:24:06linuxstbThen it seems to simply be 64 lines, but with a physical gap inserted
14:24:08LloreanSo it's basically two LCDs, as far as "how we can effectivelly use it"
14:24:25funmanLlorean: no, basically takes 2 'l'
14:24:32funmani'm off :)
14:24:33 Quit funman ("leaving")
14:24:33Lloreaneffectively takes one, though
14:24:55amiconnIsn't it OLED?
14:25:16LloreanTwo /screens/ :-P
14:25:33*amiconn wonders whether the greylib will work on it
14:25:37gevaertsmarkun: yes
14:26:18linuxstbamiconn: You would have to rename it (again...)
14:26:39amiconnhuh? We didn't rename it for the mr100
14:26:54linuxstbIt works on the mr100? Then I'm outraged ;)
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15:21:40SilentButeo2Can i obtain write permission for the Twiki?
15:22:14LinusNSilentButeo2: sure, what is your wikiname?
15:22:35LinusNhang on
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15:23:54LinusNthank you for contributing
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15:27:24LambdaCalculus37LinusN: Question... have you got any spare iAudio X5 parts on hand?
15:27:38LinusNi have a bunch of joysticks
15:27:47LambdaCalculus37Any batteries?
15:27:55LambdaCalculus37Damn. :(
15:28:30LambdaCalculus37I have a non-working X5L here that needs new batteries, and a new plastic cover for the LCD.
15:29:00LambdaCalculus37The only batteries I have are iPod and Gigabeat batteries, and those are just a wee bit too big to fit into the X5L.
15:33:27LinusNi bought my new x5 battery on ebay
15:35:45LinusNi believe the seller was "battery_centre"
15:40:37LambdaCalculus37LinusN: Thanks, I'll look for them.
15:43:26 Part LinusN
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15:47:02wpyhgevaerts: !!!
15:47:09wpyhI see "tmpval: 20000010"
15:47:25LambdaCalculus37wpyh: How'd that happen?
15:47:33wpyhon the Meizu M3
15:48:00markunwpyh: great!!
15:48:14wpyhapparently it's not perfect yet
15:48:19markungevaerts and I are trying to find out what goes wrong with our LCD init
15:48:41wpyhI pressed Play, the backlight went off; then I pressed M, the backlight toggles on and off like crazy
15:48:51wpyhmarkun: maybe you're using the lcd init for the newer lcd
15:49:08markunno, I think we're using the correct one, but we're doing the SPI write wrong
15:49:12markunnow looking at the OF
15:49:47markunin the SPI code, first you select a register, then you choose to read the value or to write to it
15:49:57markunbut whatever we do, we get the same value when we write
15:50:10markunso probably the register setting doesn't work
15:51:53markun"same value when we write" should have been "same value when we read"
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15:53:33wpyhmarkun: but it does work on mine...
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15:53:45markunwpyh: the M3 doesn't use the SPI interface
15:53:59wpyhah, you mean the M6SL?
15:54:12markunI only have an M6SL (so far)
15:54:26markunfor gevaerts M3 I'm sure it's not very difficult to get it to work
15:55:05wpyhhm.. ok
15:55:09wpyhI don't have an M6SL
15:55:15wpyhI do have the M6SP though
15:55:55markunI think the M6SP uses the SPI interface as well
15:57:23wpyhwhy do you think so?
15:58:55meventhe m6 models have the same LCD chips right markun ?
16:00:55markunwpyh: check the value of 0x3CF000F0 in the OF. If it's set to 1 it's SPI
16:01:57markunmeven: no, meizu has changed the LCD chips a few times. Check
16:02:43wpyhhm... I tried flashing the bootloader code onto the M3 but it won't run
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16:04:19markunmeven: well, the M6SP and M6SL at least share the S6D0139
16:05:05markunI'll update that table a bit
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16:05:32wpyhmarkun: how do I check for that value in the OF?
16:07:33markunwpyh: look through the disassembled source
16:07:52markunI think I have one for the M6SP somewhere. I'll check after the wiki update.
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16:09:57wpyhhm... markun: I don't see that value anywhere in the disassembled OF...
16:11:01markunwpyh: look for 0x3CF00000
16:11:51wpyhthis? 7e8:3cf00000 ldcccl0, cr0, [r0]
16:12:24wpyh(on the MeizuReverseEngineering page, I see that SPI is 0x3cd00000, but I can't find that address anywhere in the OF)
16:12:50wpyh(and the line I just posted was not an address of 3cf00000...)
16:15:48markunwpyh: the chip is not conneted to the internal SPI controller. We have to do it by bit banging.
16:15:54wpyhrasher: is it true that only files in apps/ are internationalized?
16:16:42wpyhmarkun: you mean on the M6SP? ok, though I don't really understand
16:16:47linuxstbwpyh: Yes, and not all of them.
16:16:55linuxstbi.e. plugins are not yet localised.
16:17:28wpyhah, ok
16:17:33wpyhso I don't need to look in firmware/
16:17:49linuxstbNo, firmware/ doesn't display messages, unless they are unexpected errors
16:18:16 Quit Twisty (No route to host)
16:18:17markunwpyh: look at line 20757
16:18:18wpyhso, error messages in firmware/ are displayed in SYSFONT and not internationalized?
16:19:05wpyhmarkun: I realize that it's been too long since I joined active discussion here −− I was running objdump on M6.EBN :p
16:19:08wpyhno wonder
16:19:16linuxstbwpyh: Correct
16:19:26markunwpyh: it's inside the RAR :)
16:19:55markunmeven: wiki updated. I hope we can identify some more of the LCD controllers
16:20:18wpyhlinuxstb: ok, thanks :)
16:20:22wpyhmarkun : yeah :p
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16:24:14wpyhmarkun: it's writing 1 to 0x3cf00000
16:24:58markunwpyh: no, it's writte to 0x3cf000f0
16:25:30wpyhoh, it's writing 1 to 0x3cf00000+0xf0?
16:25:43wpyhhm... ok
16:25:50wpyhand that's SPI for the m6sl?
16:25:56wpyherr.. m6sp?
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16:26:28markunwait, I'll look up the page in the s5l8700 manual
16:27:30markunwpyh: 511
16:28:07markunfor the M3 it's set to 2, using the "LCD if" logic, for the M6 it's set to 1, using "CLCD"
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16:28:36*wpyh is trying to find that pdf file on his harddisk
16:35:00wpyhmarkun: so are the D16-D23 used for bit-banging?
16:35:03wpyhor for extra data?
16:38:55markunwpyh: as far as we know these "LCD driver" pins are used for that:
16:40:02markundon't know what D16-D23 do
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16:54:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:55:20J-23Was it proposed to add support of more filesystems to Rockbox?
16:55:43linuxstbJ-23: That is in the Rockbox "No-Do" document...
16:55:57wpyhanyone care to review a quick behavioural-change patch?
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16:58:56wpyhrasher: did you recruit a professional translator for the chinese translation?
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17:00:05Russel-Athletici have a weird problem (most likely i don't find the settings how to change it back) but the filebrowser now sorts in the wrong way
17:00:16Russel-Athleticit show first z then y and so on
17:00:21Russel-Athletichow can i change this?
17:01:05markunwpyh: is it a good translation?
17:01:24markunRussel-Athletic: I don't know. Did you check the manual?
17:01:40Russel-Athletici am checking it right now but so far i didn't find anything
17:02:04markunok, let me check
17:02:07wpyhmarkun: it is _not_ a good translation.
17:02:14markunah :)
17:02:39wpyh(professional translators usually create bad translations precisely because they are professional)
17:03:26markunRussel-Athletic: looks like there is a "sort files" setting:
17:03:40markunmaybe you need to change it
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17:05:12Russel-Athletici already sort alphabetical the files and the directory
17:05:37markunlet me check on my player
17:05:58Russel-Athleticby the way: i have the right order with files (which begin with 01,02,03...)
17:06:49gevaertsThis seems to be FS #8949
17:07:47Russel-Athleticthat could it be
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17:08:19Russel-Athleticbut mine returns on reboot
17:09:31Russel-Athleticsetting another sorting than alphabetical and then back worked
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17:14:06funmanany fuze or e200v2 owner here ?
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17:15:52funmanI wonder if these devices accept "SD" cards or "MMC" cards (or both)
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17:16:39fragilematterfunman: microsd, no mmc capability in there
17:17:08funmanfrom what I read on the interweb, SD is an enhancement of MMC, and is retro compatible with MMC
17:17:42fragilematterto a point, yes, but there are no mmcs that small to fit the form factor
17:18:22funmanisn't that a physical size limitation only ? I mean, are the pinout and drivers the same for microsd and sd ?
17:18:58fragilematterI should check that out, but iirc there are some differences between sd and microsd
17:19:18fragilematterthey either have one less conector, work at lower voltages or both
17:19:32amiconnThe pinout of basic SD and MMC is identical, but the protocol is slightly different
17:19:34wpyhwhat does "Top Time" in System -> Running Time mean?
17:19:37*fragilematter is verifying the pin numbers now
17:20:07funmanI am a bit confused by the two protocols
17:20:12amiconnAlso, the higher speed extensions are different (e.g. SD has no 8-bit mode afaik)
17:20:36fragilematteryep: standard sized sd: 9 pins, microsd: 8 pins
17:20:49funmanI try the SD way (acmd41 for initialisation) but the SD answers 'response received, but crc failed' the first time, and 'response timeout' every next attempt
17:21:17fragilematterthe sd or the pl180?
17:21:40funmanif I modify the argument to the acmd41 (which should be the "ocr"), I can get only "crc failed", I'll continue searching for the right argument and the ocr definition
17:22:09funmanfragilematter: hmm the pl180 is a "MMC" controller, it doesn't say about SD though
17:22:33fragilematterwell, mmc isn't compatible with sd
17:22:39fragilematterbut the reverse is true
17:23:10funmanI still assume it is sd able
17:23:40funmanthe OCR is the Operating Condition Register, which tell the supported voltages of the card, and probably other stuff
17:24:05funmanI'm supposed to send it to the card, and THEN I should be able to get the OCR supported by the card by issuing command 58
17:24:16funmanbut I can't issue it before initializing the card, which requires me knowing this register
17:24:19funmansilly ? ;)
17:24:59amiconnJust have a look at the existing sd driver.
17:25:07funmanI have
17:25:30amiconnAnd it's not silly; the OCR value sent in the init has a slightly different meaning
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17:27:14funmanhm in the MMC specification, they use CMD1 instead of ACMD41 for initialization
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17:59:45kronfluxhello world!
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18:02:17LambdaCalculus37kronflux: Greetings!
18:03:02kronfluxLambdaCalculus37: how are you today?
18:03:37LambdaCalculus37kronflux: Doing well. I'm receiving a broken 2nd gen nano, which I can rip open to identify all of the hardware inside.
18:03:56kronfluxLambdaCalculus37: yay! when will you be getting it?
18:04:45LambdaCalculus37kronxflux: Hopefully this week. In the meantime, I've been reading the datasheet for the Samsung SA58700 and studying some of the Meizu code.
18:05:05LambdaCalculus37Did you see that some work was done on the Meizu M3 LCD driver?
18:05:05 Quit Horschti ("User was distributing pornography on server; system seized by FBI")
18:05:43kronfluxLambdaCalculus37: nah, I havent had much time to look that stuff over. and half of it, I dont understand, remember, I'm a beginner in these waters ;)
18:08:34kronfluxbut I have learned a lot lately. just not as much as you :p
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18:18:56LambdaCalculus37Spasysheep_: Do you have a question?
18:19:03Spasysheep_is there currently any active effort to crack the encryption on the 6th gen ipod?
18:19:27Spasysheep_is there ever going to be?
18:19:39kronfluxSpasysheep_: probably. but currently, we haven't even broken the ipod nano 2g
18:20:04LambdaCalculus37Someone has to step up and work on it.
18:20:33Spasysheep_what kind of effort is there? (one computer, lots etc)
18:21:01Spasysheep_on the 2g i mean
18:21:10markunSpasysheep_: I think there are very few rockbox users who also have a 6th gen ipod. Maybe it's better to ask for help in a forum for 6th gen ipod users.
18:21:39Spasysheep_maybe, but im thinking about general cracking problems
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18:22:05kronfluxwell right now, the nano2g efford is I think mostly by myself, lambdacalculus37, possibly markun, and maybe a few others out there, but not many.
18:22:06Spasysheep_has anyone suggested or tried shared load computing?
18:22:07funmanyou should try on cryptographic channels/forums maybe
18:22:58markunSpasysheep_: for that you would need to know the algorithm used to encrypt the firmware, right?
18:23:01funmanthere was a proposition made sometimes ago on a ipod forum but I don't remember where, and it is useless anyway. Check for the time required to crack weak encryption
18:23:17funman(assuming the algorithm is known)
18:23:57kronfluxbut as markun said, you'd need to know the algorithm in which the firmware was originally encrypted.
18:24:12kronfluxand for the 2g and 6g, we do not.
18:24:34Spasysheep_well if you could find the algorithm, surely it wouldnt take much effort to set up a program that you could distribute to people to use their spare processor power to help crack it>
18:25:07LambdaCalculus37Spasysheep_: This is not going to be an easy task. I only took it up because it was revealed that the nano 2G has similar hardware to another platform we have a work-in-progress port for: the Meizu M6 and Meizu M3.
18:25:18Spasysheep_ohh ok
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18:25:31funmanSpasysheep_: not much effort to set up, millions years to succeed
18:26:04funmanis this info detailed on the wiki ?
18:26:31LambdaCalculus37funman: It was at one point, but the info is MIA at the moment. It should still be in Google Cache.
18:27:20funmanif MIA means "missing in action", I don't understand it either
18:28:29LambdaCalculus37funman: It's (mostly) up, but the table I had is gone, and I've been a bit lazy in putting it back. :)
18:29:08LambdaCalculus37It was a copy/paste of the hardware table from the MeizuM6Port page, adjusted to match the nano.
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18:31:21funmanwebguest21: sorry for not answering fast enough. hello :)
18:31:25*fragilematter hears the echo
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18:32:07webguest29anyone there?
18:32:23LambdaCalculus37No one here but us Rockbox hackers. ;)
18:32:24fragilematter'about 139 ppl
18:33:03scorchewebguest29: issues?
18:33:14webguest29oh wow this takes awhile to update
18:33:25scorcheit can
18:34:25webguest29i just have a quick question about rockbox! sorry about the lag...what OS does it use??.. i am pretty sure it has its own where does it talk about itn the documentation
18:34:56webguest29oh yeah i have issues
18:35:12markunwebguest29: here you can find something about the rockbox kernel:
18:35:37 Quit Darksair ("Zzz...")
18:35:56markunwebguest29: ah, here is a better starting point:
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18:39:58bertrikfunman, you were having problems with a CRC?
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18:40:40markunwebguest15: did you see my link?
18:40:50funmanbertrik: yes, but that's because I didn't read well enough the MMC documentation
18:40:57webguest15ok thanks I have a report to write about linux on devices other then computers and i wanted to use rockbox as an example
18:41:11markunwell, rockbox is not based on linux
18:41:28markunso you'll have to look at other projects
18:41:51wpyhmarkun: could you please edit task 9461? "Task Type" should be "Patches", "Category" should be "User Interface"
18:41:53markunthere are DVD, MP3 players and GPS navigators who run linux
18:42:30webguest15the client on the webpage needs a little work i think
18:42:46markunwpyh: done
18:42:53webguest15yeah I know that know so i have to find something else
18:43:01markunwebguest15: you can also try
18:43:16markunor just install an IRC client
18:43:17bertrikAFAIK, for sd cards at least, you only really need CRCs for two commands: send_if_conf and go_idle_state
18:43:46webguest15thanks for pointing me in the right direction in telling me i am going the wrong direction
18:43:49wpyhthanks :)
18:44:05markunwpyh: I don't know who could give you such flysprai powers, but maybe ask Bagder about it.
18:44:42webguest15yeah that probably would be a good idea but I only wanted to poke my head in and ask my question
18:44:52markunok :)
18:44:57markungood luck with the paper
18:45:00wpyhah, ok
18:45:45wpyhrasher: would you look at some fixes/modifications for the Simplified Chinese translation? It's FS #9463
18:45:56webguest15bye everybody i hope i didn't inturrupt the chat too much
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18:54:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:57:58*amiconn hmpfs @ the beast
18:59:00amiconnRockbox's battery percentage display must be way off on the beast. How else could it be that rockbox still displays 50%-ish battery when shutting down in the morning, but then the gigabeat loader refuses to boot because of low-batt in the afternoon?
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19:29:56LambdaCalculus37amiconn: I get that as well. I don't know if it's because Rockbox is inaccurately measuring remaining battery power, or because without proper power management, it's seriously sapping the battery.
19:31:36amiconnThe device was not in use in the meantime...
19:32:08*BigBambi wonders if we are talking about the beast not booting again claiming it has no battery
19:32:15LambdaCalculus37BigBambi: Yep.
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19:32:32pedrovhi all
19:32:34BigBambiIt was a fairly safe bet
19:32:44pedrovis there any sansav2 hackers around here ?
19:32:49LambdaCalculus37I have cheated by plugging the beast into USB, which usually gets it to start up.
19:33:07BigBambiThe beast bootloader seems to have a much higher threshold than Rockbox
19:33:24BigBambipedrov: Just ask, people will answer if they know, and if not most read the logs
19:33:58pedrovI've seen that there was a gitorious depository, but I could not succeed in cloning it anonymously
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19:39:15pedrovokay, I found, thanks anyway ;)
19:39:38BigBambigood :)
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19:50:57bluebrothermcuelenaere: was just looking at FS #9462 ... is plugin.DOCUMENTATION generated or does it need to be maintained manually?
19:51:21mcuelenaerebluebrother: it's generated the first time, after that it needs to be maintained manually of course
19:52:02mcuelenaerethere's also an update.php which updates plugin.DOCUMENTATION when there are changes in apps/plugin.h
19:52:03bluebrotherhmm. I'm wondering if it's worth the work adding our own documentation system −− wouldn't the use of doxygen comments be better?
19:52:20mcuelenaereI'm not sure, I haven't tried doxygen
19:52:34mcuelenaerebut the purpose of this one is only for the plugins
19:52:38mcuelenaerenot for Rockbox in general
19:52:55bluebrotheryou basically add some markup comments −− and you can run it on files selectively if you want to
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19:53:56bluebrotheronce you got used to it it's really a nice thing. And you can have the documentation inline with the sources, so it's one file less people are likely to forget
19:54:31mcuelenaereperhaps doxygen could fit too, but someone should try setting it up
19:54:38bluebrotherit's usually used for whole folders / projects, but you don't need to do that.
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19:56:58mcuelenaereperhaps adding comments to plugin.h would be better, but wouldn't that make it a bit big/messy ?
19:58:36bluebrotherwell, it depends. I usually put the comments right above the function I want to document. Unless you need a lenghty explanation this is usually rather clean.
19:58:42*domonoky wonders if doxygen can cope with the plugin api struct...
19:59:24bluebrotherwhy not? Maybe I should simply give it a try setting it up
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20:00:07mcuelenaereI believe others have tried setting up Doxygen (not for the plugin API though) and gave up for some reason and/or didn't succeed
20:01:19bluebrotherwell, using it for the plugin API would be a first step. Maybe once people are used to it ... ;-)
20:01:27*gevaerts will try right away
20:02:54*amiconn thinks doxygen comments make the source harder to read
20:03:13bluebrotherthere's no need to put the comments in the header. You could even put them into a different file
20:04:12bluebrotherand keeping source and documentation together (given that the documentation is rather brief) is a good thing imo
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20:07:25gevaertsWith the right options it seems to work. I'll copy some of the comments from mcuelenaere's page and upload the resulting files somewhere
20:08:21bluebrothergevaerts: nice. I was just running it on rbutil, but apart from the unzip class almost nothing is documented :o
20:08:26gevaertsIt won't do the conditions though (although you can set defines I think, but that's not at all the same thing)
20:08:32bertrikhas anyone tried a static code analyser on the rockbox code recently?
20:08:49bluebrotherbertrik: not me, but IMO this would definitely be interesting
20:08:51n1sgevaerts: could you retest the bootloaders in FS #9369 on your ipods please, (I rebuilt with the correct version string but a bunch of other changes had gone on the branch so it seemed best to retest...)
20:09:54gevaertsn1s: I'll do that right after this doxygen experiment, so you'll have results in about an hour I guess
20:10:49n1sgevaerts: thanks, it's no rush, they've been sitting there for almost a week :)
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20:17:02C0SM0S--Hi all. I have newbie question.
20:17:13C0SM0S--I have a sansa 250. I installed themes. They are showing ok in config screens. In the music player they are not. It just looks very plain and basic. What am I doing wrong. I went through the config screens and don't see an appropriate option.
20:17:35BigBambiThe theme is outdated and needs fixing for the changed syntax
20:18:35C0SM0S--It's that way in all the themes that I installed. I will go to the link that you just gave. Thanks.
20:19:30BigBambiC0SM0S−−: Also see
20:20:01C0SM0S--BigBambi: thanks. It looks complicated.
20:20:17BigBambiIt isn't really
20:20:21n1sMaybe we should splash some kind of error like "Invalid wps syntax" or something? or just a generic "Wps error"
20:20:47BigBambiC0SM0S−−: I know the range of tags looks a bit daunting, but if you just go through it a line at a time, you should be fine
20:20:50gevaertsDoxygen output at gevaerts/doxygen/structplugin__api.html"> for source at
20:21:09C0SM0S--BigBambi: ok, thanks.
20:21:22mcuelenaeregevaerts: thanks
20:21:23gevaertsI think mcuelenaere's output looks a lot nicer for this
20:21:26bertrikbluebrother, it think it would be nice to have a target in the Makefiles for a static code analyser, but I'm very familiar yet with the Makefiles in rockbox yet
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20:23:07n1sgevaerts: is there any way this could be done without needing comments to be in plugin.h?
20:23:12gevaertsmcuelenaere: so if I understand correctly, your tool creates a documentation file if it doesn't exist yet, and adds newly added functions if there already was one?
20:23:40mcuelenaereyes, that is slit up in two scripts: generate.php and update.php
20:23:56mcuelenaerealthough the update process can get improved
20:24:10C0SM0S--When I browse .wps files...and select one... Shouldn't that change the way things are displayed?
20:24:21BigBambiOnly if it is a valid wps
20:24:29BigBambiIf it has errors, no
20:24:33gevaertsn1s: you could probably just put the comments above the actual implementation of the functions.
20:24:33mcuelenaerethe first version of this is at"> &
20:25:47gevaertsmcuelenaere: does the update tool handle removed fields?
20:26:07*domonoky likes mcuelenaeres version much more then the doxygen output :-)
20:26:08mcuelenaerethat's why I said it can get improved ;)
20:26:39n1sgevaerts: that would be very nice, to avoid having two copies of the comments and risking one of them getting outdated...
20:26:51*gevaerts thinks we should commit mcuelenaere's toolset, and start filling things in.
20:26:57*mcuelenaere agrees :)
20:27:44gevaertsI think that if we have some sort of plan to document the entire source, doxygen is a good idea. If we only want the plugin (or codec...) api, a specialised tool seems better
20:29:20gevaertsAnd since it doesn't actually touch anything, I see no reason not to commit
20:29:52mcuelenaerebut yes, perhaps v1 could get committed
20:29:56gevaertsOf course we want improvements :)
20:30:43LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: Go for it. :)
20:30:48gevaertsI think we want detection of removed fields, and detection of fields that aren't correct anymore (changed parameters)
20:31:02gevaertsBut both of those are not needed to get started with documenting
20:31:26domonokyalso expanding of PREFIX would be nice :-)
20:31:37mcuelenaerehehe yes
20:31:58mcuelenaereand what about the location of docs/plugin.DOCUMENTATION?
20:32:09mcuelenaereshould it be in apps/ or in docs/
20:33:59gevaertsdocs/ IMHO, but maybe give it a different name. Once it's near-complete I think we may want it to replace PLUGIN_API
20:34:05*bluebrother returns
20:34:46bluebrotherwell, the current doxygen output doesn't look too nice, but that could also get improved −− f.e. by using groups
20:35:03mcuelenaerewow, I didn't know of PLUGIN_API
20:35:32bluebrotherand that PREFIX could get addressed by this substitution thingy doxygen offers.
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20:36:03*gevaerts suspects that bluebrother knows a bit about doxygen :)
20:36:37bluebrotheryou don't? ;-)
20:36:50gevaertsJust a very tiny bit
20:37:46bluebrotherwell, I used it a bit in the past. I could try to make an improved output ...
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20:38:39gevaertsThe main advantage about mcuelenaere's tool IMHO is the Conditions bit. I don't think doxygen has anything like that
20:38:56mcuelenaeredon't forget the \see bit
20:39:06utjduodoes rockbox excist to ipod classic 120gig? is it the ipod video fermwire?
20:39:09mcuelenaereit has abilities to link to wiki, svn and normal URLs
20:39:19utjduoit's the 5,5 gen i think
20:39:29gevaertsmcuelenaere: doxygen has that :)
20:39:33mcuelenaerehmm darn
20:39:41gevaertsutjduo: classic 120gig is 6th gen
20:39:48domonokyutjduo: ipod classic is 6gen, rockbox doesnt not work on those.
20:39:52utjduocrap =(
20:40:11utjduoI want rockbox x|
20:40:11utjduoI hate the fermwire in it
20:40:21utjduodo anyone know any other fermwire to the 6gen?
20:40:30 Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat")
20:40:41linuxstbutjduo: There is none.
20:40:41utjduoanything except the one in it
20:41:20utjduofuzz -.- I hate ipod. Creactive in my heart! To bed they don't make mp3 with like 50gig in them
20:42:18linuxstbutjduo: This page may give you some ideas -
20:44:20utjduosomone that know any good program to put music in your ipod without itunes? hate that program
20:44:37utjduoit have removed all my 7024 songs like 5 times in 3 days now!
20:44:38linuxstbutjduo: This is a channel about Rockbox
20:44:53utjduoyeah I know but someone may know ^^ sry
20:44:58utjduowon't talk more about it
20:45:00LambdaCalculus37utjduo: That's off-topic here.
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20:48:06*bluebrother wonders if gevaerts used OPTIMIZE_OUTPUT_FOR_C
20:48:23*gevaerts did
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20:54:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:55:32*gevaerts finds a bug
20:55:49*LambdaCalculus37 hands gevaerts the tongs so he can pick it out
20:57:24bluebrotherok, 1st try trying to improve gevaerts' output:
20:58:37gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: does your ipod video have important data on it?
20:59:23LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Nothing that isn't already mirrored on my other DAPs.
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21:00:10gevaertsIn that case, after you've done the basic bootloader test it may be worth it to do an IpodConversionToFAT32 while misreading the instructions
21:00:18*gevaerts explains
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21:02:03gevaertsThere is a potential issue with traces of a 512-byte-sector restore, so doing a 512-byte restore (including formatting the data partition) followed by a proper 2048-byte-sector restore would be useful
21:03:42LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: I'll try that out, but to be on the safe side, I'd like to make a complete backup of my iPod first, so I can't do that test until I get home and have access to a hard drive with plenty of space.
21:04:25gevaertsMake sure you have plenty of time too :)
21:04:33LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: I will. :)
21:04:57LambdaCalculus37Even if I can't do it tonight, I can do it tomorrow.
21:07:26gevaertsHow does genlang work? I have a problem with a missing language define
21:08:41LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: ipodpatcher is reporting that the sector size on my iPod video is 2048 bytes.
21:09:12gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: that's to be expected. I'm not sure how easy it is to do what I asked actually
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21:11:31mcuelenaerebluebrother: what's the difference with gevaerts' version?
21:12:50zodttdIs there interest for a RockBox port to iPhone?
21:13:12zodttd(and iPod Touch)
21:13:29bluebrotherthe PREFIX is gone, the plugin_api:: in the details too, and I've just updated it again with grouping (try the "Modules" tab)
21:13:41linuxstbzodttd: There's always interest in new ports.
21:13:51LambdaCalculus37n1s: My iPod's working nicely. :)
21:14:07zodttdI did vlc4iphone, but I like how I heard RockBox has an SDL frontend
21:14:08n1sLambdaCalculus37: great, thanks!
21:14:44zodttdI think it would make a good audio player for the iPhone. Was just checking if there was already someone working on it.
21:14:52n1sok, that leaves 1g/2g, 3g, 4g and nano to test
21:14:57bertrikbleh, splint chokes on the various IF_* macros
21:14:57linuxstbzodttd: It's not really an SDL frontend. We have what we call the "UI simulator", which is the Rockbox code compiled to run on a PC, using SDL for display (and threading/keyboard input)
21:15:03LambdaCalculus37n1s: When I get home tonight, I'll give the iPod color bootloader a go.
21:15:25markunhow are we going to deal with the resolution independance of rockbox as an app?
21:15:45n1sLambdaCalculus37: color is already tested but it won't hurt to do it again i suppose
21:16:13LambdaCalculus37n1s: Then there's always my 2G iPod. I'll have to open it to get the hard drive out, though.
21:16:16zodttdAh! How difficult would it be to get that UI compiled to ARM?
21:16:49linuxstbzodttd: If you can use gcc to target the iphone, then not hard at all.
21:16:54n1szodttd: many of our targets are ARM based so it should work quite nicely
21:16:57zodttdYes I can. :)
21:17:17zodttdGreat. I just got worried when I heard PC.
21:17:29linuxstbI just use "PC" generically...
21:17:33zodttdAh :)
21:17:35bluebrotherwell, you need SDL running on your platform
21:17:38zodttdI have it
21:17:53markunmaybe this is useful as well:
21:17:58miraknls problem is that zodttd report the R9 register is used by the iphone kernel
21:17:59pixelmagevaerts: what do you mean with "missing language define"?
21:18:09mirakn1s: problem is that zodttd report the R9 register is used by the iphone kernel
21:18:24zodttdWell r9 is used for thread local storage. So a lot of ARM assembly cant be used.
21:18:25mirakso arm code doesn't work as it on it
21:18:30linuxstbHuh? So apps are banned from using R9?
21:18:30domonokyzodttd: if you have SDL and gcc for the iphone, then porting the rb simulator should not be too hard... more work is needed to adapt the uisim to the phones control, etc.
21:18:30zodttdOr needs to be rewritten
21:18:40zodttdPretty much, effectively
21:18:54n1smirak: yeah, I didn't say it would work without some effort ;)
21:19:11gevaertspixelma: I was trying a multivolume build for the ipod mini, which makes main_menu.c complain about missing LANG_DISK_NAME_MMC
21:19:19linuxstbzodttd: That's probably going to make a lot of Rockbox's arm assembler optimisations useless, but if gcc can handle it, you will at least get something working.
21:19:20zodttddomonoky: I agree completely
21:19:27mirakn1s: well that's a bit unexpected as a limitation of the iphone os ...
21:19:35zodttdRight, theres a C/C++ backup I assume
21:19:39zodttderr fallback
21:19:43mirakn1s: maybe they did it on purpose
21:19:59zodttdThey probably did it for some performance reason. Why they dont use cp15 is beyond me
21:20:08zodttdFor instance I can't set -mt=soft
21:20:39zodttdIt will stick with R9, and GCC code doesnt output any usage of r9
21:20:41n1smirak: I don't know any details of the iphone and meant in a general way that our apps code is pretty portable and already works well on many arm based targets, i wasn't thinking of assembler code atm
21:20:45zodttdIts definitely used by the kernel.
21:21:14zodttdYeah, it shouldnt be an issue if theres a C fallback
21:21:17mirakn1s: ha ok :)
21:21:31zodttdthe iPhone can handle audio fine, just struggles with video + audio.
21:22:03domonokyzodttd: there are C fallbacks, as the sim normally runs on PC.
21:22:05n1sgevaerts: usually I need to 'make clean' when that happens, like when changing features.txt etc. our build system isn't very robust it seems
21:22:20linuxstbzodttd: Presumably this is going to require a jailbroken iphone/itouch to run?
21:22:26gevaertsn1s: How about make clean and another configure? That didn't help
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21:22:31zodttdlinuxstb: Thats my next question
21:22:46zodttdI can do it for jailbroken devices easily
21:22:57gevaertsCan't you pretend that rockbox is a set of games?
21:23:02zodttdBut if you wanted this as an AppStore project, it would probably get rejected by Apple
21:23:33zodttdDue to them considering it "duplicating functionality" (aka competing)
21:24:08domonokyjust list it under "doom" in the AppStore :-)
21:24:19n1sgevaerts: LANG_DISK_NAME_MMC uses the e200, c200 and ondio* features in english.lang nad has no generic string for multivolume so that's the problem i assume
21:24:28zodttdI should really put my quake4iphone on AppStore if lazrhog can do Neverball ;P
21:24:38*BigBambi is surprised Apple even lets people talk about this ;)
21:24:41linuxstbzodttd: Well, no manufacturer endorses Rockbox anyway, so that's nothing new.
21:24:55zodttdYeah :(
21:27:36gevaertsn1s: Which string will get used if a lang-string has multiple matching features?
21:27:46n1sgevaerts: the last
21:27:48BigBambiIt would be good to see this done though - I can imagine that it would be very helpful getting Rockbox running as an app on various other devices too
21:27:51miraklinuxstb: yes, they would have nothing to lose with an open os. THey already have in thory the licence to play mp3 shouldn't they ?
21:28:00n1slast match that is
21:28:39n1si.e. everything matches the *: none but only those who match anything after that gets a string
21:30:12n1sand adding a *: "foo" after *: none wouldn't make any difference to regular builds
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21:32:48*amiconn hopes his InterixDevelopment hotwo will be at least of some use
21:34:45gevaertsIf I add a feature string to english.lang, do I have to do anything to other languages?
21:35:22gevaerts(i.e. the string id doesn't change, but I added a feature+string to it)
21:35:45n1sgevaerts: i'm pretty sure you don't
21:36:34n1sbut I'm not 100%
21:37:35*domonoky thinks genlang detects this.
21:37:52n1sdomonoky: yes, but what does it do about it?
21:38:42domonokyits marks it with: ### The <source> section differs from the english! when you update a lang file
21:39:02n1sgevaerts: i suppose it will use the English string if it finds no match in a localization
21:39:21domonokyuntil you update the language, rockbox just uses the english language.
21:39:26gevaertsSo do I have to run genlang -u, or is the translator supposed to do that?
21:39:46domonokygevaerts: thats the translators job.
21:40:07gevaertsok. Now I just need to test if it still works properly for other targets, and then commit
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21:49:50XavierGramiconn: any final figures about the speed gain on Interix compared to Cygwin?
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21:52:47amiconnXavierGr: Less than I hoped.
21:53:20amiconnBuilding the crosscompilers is *a lot* faster than on Cygwin (I've built all 4 toolchains on my oldish lappy in about 2 hours, whereas on Cygwin it took around 9 hours
21:53:41amiconnBut somehow building rockbox isn't much faster (just about 10..15%) here
21:53:51XavierGrwow! 9 hours? what machine are we talking about?
21:54:07amiconnThat is without ccache though - unlike Cygwin, Interix *does* profit from ccache
21:54:09XavierGramiconn: does interix use ccache?
21:54:14amiconnPentium M 1.5GHz
21:54:22amiconn1GB RAM, 120GB HDD 2.5"
21:55:34amiconnXavierGr: What really killed it on Cygwin was the arm toolchain, which needed >5 hours due to the plethora of multilibs. On Interix even arm took less than an hour
21:56:14XavierGramiconn: I will try to follow your instructions and make some comparisons too
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22:13:22*n1s takes out the paperclip...
22:16:04n1sdirskipping in the wps seems to suffer from some kind of race, after a couple of skips forward or backward it freezes...
22:16:19amiconnPaperclips are necessary tools for a number of rockbox targets :\
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22:19:29MarcGuayamiconn: FYI, the RockboxDevelopment page has sort of been suplanted by the braoder DevelopmentGuide page.
22:20:03amiconnI've just used the same parent as CygwinDevelopment
22:20:13amiconnI also linked it from the index
22:20:48MarcGuayamiconn: Sure, just letting you know.
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22:24:26MarcGuayYarr, there's a lot of noise in the How to set up an environment & compile part of the wiki. Another day...
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22:44:38mcuelenaereso then, is anyone against me committing FS #9462 ?
22:45:34markunmcuelenaere: looks nice, I wouldn't mind.
22:45:45mcuelenaerebluebrother: ?
22:46:05peturamiconn: on hwcodec, when recording, where is mono/stereo set?
22:46:48amiconnIt is set in the recording settings...
22:46:48peturI assume you can record mono on archos?
22:47:05peturyes, but where abouts in source
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22:47:57peturI assume the mas is configured to do this?
22:48:18gevaertsmcuelenaere: it may be a good idea to merge docs/PLUGIN_API first, but that can also wait of course
22:48:37mcuelenaerehmm perhaps I can script me a way around that
22:50:47amiconnpetur: yes
22:51:07amiconnBoth the MAS DSP core and the audiocodec part need to be configured for this
22:51:22peturamiconn: does the mas do L+R or is it configurable?
22:52:03amiconnIt's configurable, but I don't readily remember the details
22:52:19*amiconn practically never records except for testing purposes
22:52:28*amiconn greps
22:53:44amiconnpetur: it's in mpeg.c
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22:54:23*petur looks
22:54:48amiconnThe mpeg thread is both playback and recording engine
22:55:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:56:10peturhmmm /* Copy left channel to right (mono mode) */
22:56:27amiconnThat's the audiocodec part
22:56:39amiconnThe DSP config part is before that, line 2429
22:57:21amiconnIirc the MAS DSP core averages both ADC values when encoding to mono, so copying left to right avoids a 6dB level drop
22:57:24peturjust found it too
22:58:03amiconnBtw, the MAS PCM codec allows applying an arbitrary stereo matrix for recording as well
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22:58:40amiconnThe built-in mp3 encoder does not, though
22:59:13purpleposeidonBah! Moving items in playlists is broken! (At least it is in my version, I haven't updated recently)
22:59:25peturok, so on hwcodec, for mono you always get L+R, no other way possible...
22:59:52amiconnpetur: What are you up to?
23:00:24pixelmapurpleposeidon: do you mean you cannot move items or the displayed name is wrong? And "bah" too ;)
23:00:27peturI'm going to add an option for swcodec that selects the mono mode. L/R/L+R
23:00:53gevaertsYes! We need more options! ;)
23:01:53pixelmaof course, what would end in the "advanced options" menu otherwise? :P
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23:02:06amiconnpetur: What would that be good for?
23:02:15gevaertspixelma: I don't know. Volume?
23:02:36amiconnBtw, you need to take care of special cases like mic recording
23:02:42amiconn(internal mic I mean)
23:03:15peturamiconn: if you record through line in from a mono source, the signal is mostly on L, so currently you get L plus an open input devided by two, so half your signal
23:04:18peturwe're cuurently good at recording a stereo signal in mono, not recording a mono source
23:04:27amiconnYou can do that selection for hwcodec too, at least partially
23:04:36*amiconn checks the datasheet
23:04:56peturamiconn: that's what I was wondering and why I asked you ;)
23:05:21amiconnYou can select between (L+R)/2 and pure L
23:05:35amiconnNo pure R possible (with mp3 recording)
23:06:04amiconnFor PCM (if that ever gets integrated :/ ) you can even do an arbitrary mix
23:06:05peturhmm maybe I should do the same for swcodec (ie no pure R)
23:06:29peturotoh, we can offer it, because we can :)
23:07:12amiconnSwitching to pure L requires setting the "copy left channel to right" bit (same as is used for mic)
23:07:13peturI'll do swcodec first and then see how it can be extended to hwcodec. would have been nice to keep the options the same
23:07:33peturamiconn: gotcha the audiocodec part. There is no bit for doing the opposite copy
23:07:51purpleposeidonpixelma: I'm not sure. I don't have it on me atm, it's charging. BUT. It was a major "wtf" moment, like, you chose which item you wanted to move, then it would re-arrange the one above it, and then when you pressed, some other weird thing happened...
23:08:03amiconnThe bit that selects between line in and mic in (for left ADC only) is a separate one
23:08:30amiconnSee the MAS3587F datasheet, page 41
23:08:42purpleposeidonI'll have to update to 3.0. :)
23:08:56pixelmapurpleposeidon: ok, I guess I know the bug (and it's already officially reported). Do you use shuffle (globally) or "insert shuffled"?
23:09:14purpleposeidonpixelma: ohhhh, I think it was "insert shuffled" that I used.
23:09:20amiconnpetur: Btw, I think you would have quite some fun if you were recording on an archos
23:09:26purpleposeidonBut I should update to 3.0
23:09:41amiconnQuite a number of recorders is wired incorrectly, so that channels are switched
23:09:42peturamiconn: define fun
23:09:53purpleposeidonThe software that I'm using is two months old
23:10:52amiconnMost probably that doesn't apply to the Ondio FM (no "free-flying" wiring of the line-in signal)
23:10:53peturamiconn: I have two separate mics, and can't always verify L/R when recording, so I need to check L/R in post processing anyway
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23:12:25pixelmapurpleposeidon: usually we ask you to update before (I mean the bug could have been fixed in the meantime...) So if you'd like to compare: and if you like to comment update to a recent build though
23:13:05pixelmathe bug is still there but playing by the rules is nice
23:14:22purpleposeidonawww. :(
23:14:31purpleposeidonI wonder, is the Sideways-Doom on Sansa bug fixed?
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23:16:17purpleposeidonCFP's comment seems to describe the issue that I was having
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23:18:12gevaertspurpleposeidon: FS #8641? That should be fixed
23:18:24pixelmaone way to find out ;)
23:20:21purpleposeidonI'm far too lazy to do that right now. :P
23:20:51purpleposeidonAnd I'd probably have to update all the apps. Bah.
23:21:11mcuelenaerePLUGIN_API seems to be pretty outdated..
23:24:17bluebrothermcuelenaere: I have no objections. It's just that I'm wondering if we could achieve something similar without maintaining yet another tool
23:24:58mcuelenaereif everything goes smooth, there shouldn't be a lot of maintaining
23:24:59purpleposeidonoh, lovely, the doom 90 degrees bug is fixed
23:30:11amiconnBagder: ping
23:30:50amiconnWhat do you think about the follwing patch:
23:32:15amiconnIt uses 'which' to put the full path to various tools into the Makefile, in order to speed things up
23:32:31amiconnI wonder whether this usage of 'which' is acceptable or not
23:33:00amiconnThe 2>/dev/null is just for suppressing the longish message for tools which do not exist
23:33:01Unhelpfulamiconn: have a fallback to the bare executable name in case which doesn't exist?
23:33:02bluebrotherdoes this make a noticable difference?
23:33:57amiconn(dlltool, dllwrap and windres do not exist for anything but win32 targets)
23:33:57gevaertsamiconn: sed: -e expression #14, char 22: unterminated `s' command
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23:33:58Bagderthere's a problem with this for the people who run configure without a proper path setup for the tools
23:34:10Bagdercurrently configure warns about that
23:34:18Bagderthis effectively kills it
23:34:29amiconnThat's true
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23:34:47BagderI'd suggest using a local 'which' function that uses the plain basename in case it doesn't find it in the path
23:35:08amiconnBut imho, setting up the Makefile without giving configure a chance to check versions is pretty much useless anyway
23:35:30amiconnYou'll end up with a Makefile that's very likely sub-optimal, and somewhat likely not working at all
23:35:31bluebrotherthere's one thing that comes into my mind too: if you want to build the manual but don't have the correct cross-compiler installed configure warns, but this is not fatal
23:36:19amiconnUnfortunately I'm no Makefile expert. There are cases where the crosscompilers *should* not be necessary, but they are
23:36:24amiconn(e.g. voice building)
23:36:45amiconnFor some reason voice building builds the bitmaps...
23:37:19n1sour build system has a number of weird behaviours and bugs :(
23:37:19amiconngevaerts: Odd. It works fine here (Cygwin)
23:37:37gevaertsodd indeed. I can't find what's wrong
23:38:19amiconnI admit adding 'which' that way was a quick hack, but it produced exactly what I did manually
23:39:13amiconnbluebrother: It does make a noticeable difference. Speedup is 5..15% on Cygwin and Interix without a virus scanner running, and also on Linux. With virus scanner enabled, the gain is even bigger
23:39:28gevaertsIt's the CC one, but it looks the same as the others. Weird
23:39:39 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:40:58amiconnSome examples: Linux-amd64: 1:15 -> 1:05, Cygwin: 7:41->6:13, +Antivirus: 12:08 -> 8:52, Interix: 5:46 -> 5:30, +Antivirus: 14:30 -> 9:35
23:41:08amiconn(those were recorder builds)
23:42:00bluebrothercan't you do that earlier in the script? I.e. put the output of which into a variable, and if the result is empty use the generic value instead and spit a warning
23:42:03amiconnThe ...and spit a warning part should be left out
23:42:42amiconnOtherwise it will *always* spit 3 warnings (for windres, dlltool and dllwrap) unless you're building a win32 sim
23:43:13 Quit bughunter2 ("bye")
23:43:22n1swe could remove the win32 sim, it's deprecated
23:43:35n1sand probably doesn't build anymore
23:43:39amiconnI mean an SDL sim for win32
23:43:51bluebrotherwell, you could only spit out a warning if gcc itself is missing (as that might indeed be a problem)
23:43:56amiconnThe old win32 sims were stripped out long ago
23:45:17gevaertsNo error for the sh compiler, only for arm.
23:45:25*gevaerts is really confised about this
23:45:43amiconnI'll try the function idea
23:46:13*amiconn thinks 'configure' is rather confusing
23:46:28bluebrotherit's a bit longish ...
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23:47:47 Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:47:58 Nick jhulst_ is now known as jhulst (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
23:48:24gevaertsWhen building for the Player, I get between 32 and 34 seconds, both with and without this patch (I have lots of RAM, which may make a difference)
23:49:50 Part yonkeltron ("Like a bad toupee, yonkeltron has parted.")
23:50:38amiconnYes it might
23:51:10 Join einhirn [0] (
23:51:15amiconnI think that storing the full path is a good idea anyway, because it allows using different toolchains based on the path at configure time
23:51:33amiconnEven if the path changes later, the tools used will stay the same
23:51:50gevaertsExactly. For me that's actually a real advantage, as I don't set the path by default.
23:52:54amiconnI do, but I will profit from the cut-down build times on cygwin and interix. So 2 advantages in one patch (I will make a better implementation of this)
23:54:15BagderI agree it being a good idea in general
23:54:31BagderI mean apart from any speed increases
23:54:41amiconnenabling ccache prepends 'ccache' to the actual CC ...
23:55:16 Join Zarggg [0] (
23:55:18gevaertsI was looking at that. Probably ccache needs the same trick
23:55:32amiconnSo the actual path check needs to go before that (and the full path to ccache should also be used)
23:57:33 Quit dabujo (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))

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