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#rockbox log for 2008-10-14

00:00:02ameyeralthough none of that does any good if someone put a 1g's guts in a 2g's case or a 2g's guts in a 1g's case
00:00:18ballUmm... can this play Ogg/Vorbis out of the box?
00:01:17ameyeralthough mp3 is more efficient in current svn
00:02:05ballefficient in terms of processor load?
00:02:12ameyernot that mp3's recent optimization is particularly relevant to the question
00:02:16 Quit DerDome (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:02:33ameyerball: yes
00:02:54ballShould I erase the music files that Apple iTunes put on the iPod?
00:03:10ameyerball: you don't have to
00:03:24ballameyer: will they play in Rockbox?
00:03:34ameyeralthough if you don't the files view is mostly useless
00:03:55ameyerball: we're not talking FairPlay-crippled AAC, are we?
00:04:01ballI think I'm ready to start with a blank slate.
00:04:33ballameyer: I don't know. I did accidentally plug my iPod into Mrs. ball's PC once and it shoved almost 4 Gbytes of cruft on there :-)
00:04:43ballbrb, I have to reboot
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00:12:18ballWhere should I look for iTunes music (on my iPod Mini)
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00:14:02ballaha, iPod_Control/Music ?
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00:14:22gevaertsSounds like it, yes
00:14:27ballcan I just remove everything in that directory?
00:14:46ball(without impacting Rockbox)
00:14:49gevaertsAs far as rockbox is concerned, you only need .rockbox
00:15:08ballDoes Rockbox care where I put mp3 files?
00:16:46 Quit zeqyqym (K-lined)
00:17:35Lloreanstevenm: I just checked, my fully charged AJBR reports it's getting 5.4V from the batteries.
00:17:52stevenmLlorean, hmmm... maybe I should try feeding it that instead?
00:18:10stevenmLlorean, quite strange, 4x 1.2V = 4.8V
00:18:26stevenmLlorean, will drag it along with me and power it up at the lab.. see what it dues
00:21:18stevenmLlorean, that makes the car adapter so much less pretty... no nice 5V regulator :(
00:22:51stevenmmaybe I can get an adjustable buck/boost before my trip....
00:24:57*ameyer wonders if nimh batteries charge to above 1.2v
00:25:32ameyerI know the sansa's battery charges to 4.2V or so even though it's a "3.7V" battery
00:25:32stevenmthis has gotta work... i cant stand 4 hours of radio jesus talk :(
00:26:45stevenmPennsylvania and West Virginia, go figure
00:27:09ballThanks for your help chaps (and chapesses, if any there be).
00:27:17ballI'll give this rockbox thing a try this evening.
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00:32:01stevenmLlorean, well... I am off to go give 5.4V a try. In the meantime, I got samples of adjustable switching regulators, and of the AJB charging chip... maybe that'll take care of it. Thanks for the help
00:32:11stevenmsee ya
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01:42:17Hillshumwhat do i do after running makeamsboot?
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01:44:30linuxstbHillshum: What kind of V2 are you using, and which version of mkamsboot?
01:44:55Hillshume200, and latest svn or git
01:45:06Hillshumcan't figure out either
01:45:50linuxstbI only know the svn version of mkamsboot. So you've run mkamsboot and created a patched firmware file?
01:47:42linuxstbAnd I don't think the svn mkamsboot is compatible with the e200v2 bootloader built from git - and there is no e200v2 support in SVN.
01:48:27Hillshumi made a patched.bin that ran fine on my e200 a while ago
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01:51:38linuxstbHillshum: I'm not sure what you're asking.
01:51:51Hillshumnever mind
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03:50:31jwoznackmay I ask a question about viewports?
03:52:30jwoznackokay, here's my question: is there a way to display an image within a viewport such that any text is displayed on top of that image?
03:53:34jwoznackI've tried, but I can't seem to do a %xda within a viewport and have it drawn before any text. it seems that text is always drawn first, followed by any images.
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04:16:22TetracommI have a Creative Zen and want to try to help to port Rockbox to it, what can I start by doing?
04:17:07Tetracommand if it is that the firmware needs to be decrypted, how can I start trying to decrypt it? (what I might need and so on)
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04:18:01Lars_GHey guys
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04:18:19Lars_GAny ideas why rockbox will suddenly out of the blue..... wait....
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04:37:00ballFrom the little I've got to use RockBox this evening, I like it.
04:37:46Unhelpfulball: is that a compliment to the devs, a support request, or both? ;)
04:37:55ballA compliment.
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04:38:58ball...that the intent, anyway.
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04:40:10ballI need to turn the 'click' off though because it sort of squeals
04:42:21Unhelpfulsqueals? which player do you use?
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04:42:37balliPod Mini
04:42:41ballFirst generation I think
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04:50:44Unhelpfulsorry, know nothing about that :/
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04:54:18ballUnhelpful: no problem. It's not a big thing anyway.
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05:27:49stevenmHello. Any MAS3587 people here?
05:30:48ameyerhmm... can anyone make any sense of the markings on,39029432,49299308-7,00.htm
05:31:11ameyernot that it's likely a 4g nano port is easily doable
05:31:29stevenmameyer, it's got an apple logo and the word ARM on it
05:32:00stevenmso if i'd hafta guess, it's an arm core surrounded by a bunch of on-die apple fancy peripherals
05:32:18ameyerprobably from that semiconductor company apple bought a while back
05:32:35stevenmit would be a real clusterf*ck trying to reverse engineer a SoC
05:33:48ballIt would be helpful if people would release docs, but Apple don't seem to think that way any more.
05:33:50stevenmalthough if you could get your hands on the flash contents and disassemble it in some dark corner, you might be able to get some idea about the peripherals and regs
05:34:09*ball notes with interest that the Apple II came with full schematics
05:34:29stevenmball, go figure.... but that also used to be made from discrete, through-hole (!) ICs
05:34:39*ball nods
05:34:56ballpth is easier to repair too ;-)
05:35:01stevenmthrough-hole ICs? today? in a computer? the only such parts are probably the PCI connectors
05:35:10stevenmoh and don't forget how some parts used to be SOCKETED
05:35:27*ball nods
05:35:45ameyerthere's another out of focus chip that has an apple logo, an alphanumeric string that starts with CC and ends with -AC
05:36:24stevenmball, although it is funny. i recently pulled apart an exercise machine that still had a socketed flash rom
05:37:56ballThere are still times when an IC socket makes sense.
05:38:09ballLine drivers spring to mind
05:38:15stevenmthis is true
05:38:19ballROMs and other programmable chips
05:38:32stevenmmy PIC programmer has all the drivers socketed. convenient
05:38:54stevenmball, the flash from the exercise machine was interesting.. you could just read the thing out.. how nice of them to socket it.
05:39:05stevenmit contained funny strings like "Nosey, aren't you?"
05:39:17ameyerthat can't be right
05:39:34stevenmthat and "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
05:39:41ameyergoogling some of the strings from that unknown chip suggests there may be a superh processor in there
05:39:51ameyeryet arm would suggest otherwise
05:40:07stevenmhave a peek at the FW?
05:40:10ballstevenm: Years ago I worked on a multiuser system that had "Bod was here" in the ROM
05:40:31ball...had a great conversation with Bod when I eventually tracked him down years later.
05:40:46 Quit Horscht ("We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents")
05:40:52stevenmball, wow.. nice. how did you manage that one?
05:42:34ballstevenm: ;-)
05:42:48stevenmhaha, amazingly simple in the end, eh?
05:42:53ballNow I have to find Dave Staugas
05:43:03stevenmwho is that?
05:43:13ballThe 520 STFM ROM had "Dave Saugas loves Bea HaBlig"
05:43:19ball(Atari ST)
05:43:35stevenmnice. i gotta look in more of my ROMs
05:43:42*ball grins
05:43:53scorchefolks...keep on topic please...
05:43:58stevenmthe heart monitor daughterboard in that thing, which only had one output pin for the rate had a terminal server built in
05:44:09stevenmrom strings showed it..
05:44:35ballDo iPods use DRAM or SRAM?
05:45:00stevenmball, it's funny. my school is a ridiculous CE/CS place. They have a UV eraser in the lab... but cannot find a single freaking reader/writer ANYWHERE. So for now it's down to using a PIC to count the addresses and send data over uart :(
05:45:50ameyerso, upon further googling, it seems that chip in question is an internal apple thing
05:45:54ballstevenm: shift registers ftw.
05:47:10ameyeralthough, there could actually be a superh processor in there (video decoder?)
05:48:25balla herd of ARM chips
05:48:48stevenmameyer, grabbify the flash and see what pops out
05:49:04ameyerstevenm: that'd be great if I actually had one...
05:49:25stevenmameyer, saay... does apple in some way encrypt their fw upgrades?
05:49:39stevenmcuz.. you know
05:50:01ameyeras I understand it, yes they do as of the 6th gen/2nd gen nano
05:50:20ballAnother reason I'm glad I have an older iPod
05:50:27ball(Firewire is one)
05:50:33stevenmhow is it encrypted? anyone know?
05:51:11scorchefind out! ;)
05:51:27stevenmbecause the keys have to be there somewhere... i doubt each unit has its own rsa key.. it isn't exactly a quick operation
05:51:33ballstevenm: double rot-13
05:51:53scorcheball: not helpful...
05:52:02ballscorche: sorry
05:52:24scorchestevenm: have you read the forum threads on these devices?
05:52:41ameyerthey know how it's encrypted, apparently
05:52:44stevenmscorche, no... sadly all I have is an AJB
05:53:10stevenmi used to have a friend's iriver (hence midi codec) but he has it back now.. and no ipods here
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05:54:15stevenmameyer, do you have a link handy?
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05:54:53ameyerstevenm: unfortunately not
05:55:07stevenmit would SUCK if that big chip had a little built in ROM with AES and a key... and it decrypted the flash on the fly
05:55:21stevenmit would be an effective solution but in the wrong manner :(
05:55:42scorchestevenm: i suggest reading the forum thred so you know what we know before discussing it ;)
05:56:15stevenmscorche, aah, okay. can you point me to a thread?
05:56:33scorcheforums > new ports
05:56:53stevenmsorry, it's really been a long time
05:57:42ameyerahh, rc4
05:58:01ameyerthey think
05:58:24stevenm.. doesn't that have a weakness?
05:58:34stevenmlike, in the block cipher
05:59:43Unhelpfulstevenm: rc4 is a stream cipher. it's weak if you use it with key+iv as a block cipher, and the blocks repeat, *and* you don't discard the first <some magic number> of the PRNG output
06:00:29stevenmUnhelpful, fair enough, thanks
06:00:49Unhelpfuls/block repeats/iv repeats/
06:01:02stevenmStill catching up on the thread... but they must have some way to get random access to the firmware... so maybe they went ECB with it?
06:01:09Unhelpfulthere are numerous practical ways to use RC4 that are secure my knowledge, as not-a-crypto-expert
06:02:10stevenmI thought stream ciphers generated a keystream from some starting state, so wouldn't be a huge pain in the neck to get random-access to the plaintext?
06:02:41stevenmunless it decrypts it to RAM in one long operation, and then goes from there... or something
06:02:58stevenmmaybe it even decrypts it as it flashes...
06:03:02stevenmsorry, still reading
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06:11:08stevenmreading this is just aggravating... encrypted firmware.. why... why do you CARE?
06:11:26stevenmbut sleep time is now. arm class bright and freaking early.
06:11:28stevenmgood night all
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06:58:34vitjaI'm going to commit usb code, that doesn't work. That will be compiled only if you enable HAVE_USBSTACK, so this should be good point for testing and review
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07:30:30shuttletyberianis there a way to view all songs not in your current playlist?
07:31:26shuttletyberianor otherwise, automatically remove duplicate songs from a playlist?
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07:32:11shuttletyberianor otherwise, sort a playlist so it's easier to spot duplicate entries?
07:41:53linuxstbshuttletyberian: I think the "all tracks" view (I'm not sure of the exact name) in the database should give you an alphabetically sorted list of tracks.
07:42:19shuttletyberiani'm talking about dynamic playlists though
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07:48:47linuxstbshuttletyberian: Ah, you're talking about adding the same song to the playlist twice, rather than having duplicate copies of the song on your device?
07:49:01shuttletyberianyes, in short
07:49:52linuxstbThen no, I don't think there's anything that can help you.
07:50:18shuttletyberiandoesn't seem like it would be too hard to implement? there's not even a sort function?
07:53:35linuxstbWhat's the problem you want to solve? Do you want Rockbox to not insert duplicates in the first place?
07:54:14shuttletyberianno. in the long run i want to be able to manage playlists easier
07:55:32shuttletyberiansorting alphabetically so you can remove duplicate entries would be a basic step towards that idea, but if you have a better idea i'm all ears
07:56:09linuxstbI'm not saying adding this feature to Rockbox isn't a good idea (a playlist editor plugin might be nice), but you can do it very easily on a PC - the .m3u files are simply text files.
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08:12:51modhmm none of the problems or issues I have with my e200+rockbox are in any faqs or the buglist
08:13:06modthere seebs to be no way to list tracks in track number order
08:13:08moder seems
08:13:14modam I missing something?
08:13:47modwhen charging, I can use the sandisk firmware, but rockbox's screen goes blank and I get buzzing over whatever audio is playing
08:14:50scorcheyou can use the database to list the tracks in that way, and rockbox doesnt currently charge on those devices
08:15:03modi do not see it as an option
08:16:25GodEaterthat's because it's not an option, if the tracks contain track number metadata, that's what Rockbox sorts on.
08:18:02scorcheyou can also play around a bit with creating your own tagnavi file:
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08:54:57amiconnB4gder: do we have 3.0.1 builds for Archos now?
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10:54:12vitjagevaerts: can you take a look at usbmon log?
10:54:55gevaertsvitja: I can have a look during my lunch break (two hours from now)
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10:59:05vitjagevaerts: can I send it by mail?
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12:57:32*linuxstb wonders if Rockbox could have a USB mode where it unmounts the memory card and makes it available via UMS whilst still carrying on as normal using the internal storage only
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13:14:33SoapHow does Rockbox determine the filetype of any particular music track?
13:14:56SoapDoes it trust the extension, or does it actually look at the track to determine which codec to use?
13:15:44ZagorSoap: we trust the extension
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13:20:58Zagoroops. red build.
13:21:26linuxstbSoap: It does both in a way. It uses the extension to narrow down the codec types, and then confirms it when the metadata is parsed. So for example, a ".m4a" file is initially assumed to be AAC, but the get_metadata() function also checks to see if it's ALAC.
13:22:11gevaertsvitja: I don't immediately see anything wrong. I'll try to get it running tonight on one of my tcc devices (D2 or Logik DAX)
13:23:04vitjagevaerts: somewhy host call usb-reset
13:23:09linuxstbgevaerts: Can portalplayer USB run at the same time as the rest of Rockbox? Or does it claim things like IRAM and/or the audio buffer?
13:23:45gevaertsvitja: The problem is that bus resets are not very visible in these dumps
13:25:04Soaplinuxstb, but a windows media file named .mp3 will not play even in that example, right? I simply ask because of the WMP "virus" which is running around and transcoding people's mp3 files.
13:25:18gevaertslinuxstb: yes and no. The USB stack can run perfectly well (i.e. you can use usb serial with logf to debug anything you like), but the storage driver grabs the audio buffer. It only needs 16 or 32k though, so if there's a serious need for that, this can easily be allocated for real
13:26:07linuxstbSoap: No - I'm not sure what the mp3 parser checks when parsing an mp3 file. i.e. whether it looks for a legal mpeg frame header and rejects otherwise.
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13:26:31gevaertslinuxstb: the storage driver should be able to handle "virtual hotplugging" with minor modifications to only expose one of the drives
13:27:37linuxstbgevaerts: It's just that I noticed my phone unmounts its microsd card and offers it over USB whilst continuing to function as normal and thought it might be nice for Rockbox to have the ability do the same. Although I'm not sure how useful that is...
13:28:13gevaertsIt can be done, but I think that mtp is a better way to achieve that sort of flexibility
13:28:21linuxstbWhat about IRAM use?
13:28:33linuxstbIs that static, or does it use the codec/plugin IRAM?
13:28:36gevaertsAll used IRAM is static
13:30:12linuxstb"live" mtp doesn't sound straightforward though - I'm sure lots of parts of Rockbox assumes that files won't magically disappear...
13:31:51Lloreanlinuxstb: Well, dircache probably won't like it, but Rockbox handles deleting files that are being played, or that are in a playlist, pretty well right?
13:32:33gevaertsIs live mtp very different from moving and copying files from the file browser?
13:32:53linuxstbI don't know. But live mtp would use dircache, so I don't think that would be an issue either.
13:33:26linuxstbSo maybe I am underestimating Rockbox ;)
13:34:02gevaertsI think mtp can have lots of potential without needing low-level infrasructure work (except maybe for database integration), but unfortunately Mr Someone seems to be lazy lately
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13:34:36linuxstbToo busy with project euler...
13:35:45gevaertsMTP is several hundreds of pages of spec. We probably only need a small fraction of that, but someone has to find out which fraction first. And there don't seem to be open source device side MTP implementations around to borrow
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13:36:56vitjais there open-source mtp host code?
13:37:21gevaertsThere's libmtp
13:37:39vitjadoes linux support MTP out of the box?
13:38:01vitjabtw I see it in /usr/lib64/
13:38:06gevaertsMany media player s/managers support mtp
13:38:54gevaertsThere's also a fuse filesystem
13:39:41gevaertslibmtp probably doesn't support all the weird stuff that some players out there use, but we can easily make sure that we are compatible, and we won't drop mass storage
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13:42:25vitjasounds good
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13:48:38Zagorhere's an MTP device ("gadget") driver for linux:
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13:53:02Zagoreh no, it isn't... that's just the usb controller driver
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14:27:06kronfluxis there a wiki page for the SanDisk Sansa Fuze?
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14:39:51linuxstbkronflux: I don't think so - all the V2 pages should be linked to from here -
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15:05:56Lloreanlinuxstb: The "select alternates screens" patch also nearly mandates that we further increase the WPS buffer. If we're giving them multiple screens, the image buffer moves from "bumping a very small number of WPSes on the head" to probably getting in the way of every single multi-screen one.
15:07:25linuxstbLlorean: Again, it's a matter of compromise. If multi-view WPSs turn out to be worthwhile (I'm waiting to see what theme authors come up with), then we increase it slightly. But I can imagine different views sharing a lot of images, so it hopefully won't mean "2 screens = double the space requirement"
15:08:25Lloreanlinuxstb: I'm expecting more like, 3 screens, 50% more space requirement.
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15:10:17linuxstbI honestly don't know - which is why I think we should see what theme designers come up with before rejecting the idea.
15:14:07LloreanI just.. I know we're all for telling users to "read the manual", but this is introducing behaviour that will change "beneath their feet" as it were.
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15:14:47LloreanWhat *was* a purely cosmetic feature, and has been for years for many, many people, becomes a feature where the behaviour of their player can change based on what they think is merely changing how it looks.
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16:31:20pixelmalinuxstb: the Ondio has a shortcut to the filebrowser from the WPS...
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16:53:32linuxstbpixelma: I know. But I thought the problem was that there isn't a shortcut to the main menu?
16:54:07linuxstbWhich means you can't afford to lose the browser shortcut?
16:56:06pixelmano, you could still enter the main menu via the WPS context menu. Currently the file browser shortcut allows you a second way though
16:57:05SmallR2002i wonder why sandisk are so interested in us not managing to put new firmware on their sansa v2 stuff
16:58:33ZagorSmallR2002: they're not. they're simply not interested in helping.
16:58:59linuxstbpixelma: Ah, OK. I've modified my post...
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16:59:26ZagorSmallR2002: apple, on the other hand, are very intent on not letting people run non-apple firmware on their players
16:59:33linuxstbSmallR2002: They've done nothing to prevent us though - i.e. they've been relatively easy to hack.
16:59:47SmallR2002i believe you :P
16:59:52SmallR2002i was just reading the forum thread
16:59:54linuxstbIt's all relative ;)
17:00:07SmallR2002began to feel that there were quite a few checksums and such
17:00:37linuxstbYes, but they are straightforward. There's no encryption, which is what makes it "relatively easy".
17:00:41SmallR2002i know apple were helpful at first and then became unhelpful
17:00:48linuxstbThey were?
17:01:13SmallR2002someone said they weren't unhelpful about the first bootloaders and puting linux on the first ipods
17:01:24Zagorapple were never helpful. they were just not encrypted at first.
17:02:02SmallR2002must be urban myth :)
17:02:17Zagorsandisk is actually the ones who have been most helpful of all companies. but they suddenly stopped.
17:03:33linuxstbBut even that help was just in the shape of a few free devices - nothing useful like technical info or details of their firmware encryption.
17:04:13Zagorright. they said they would provide some technical support too, but that came to nothing
17:05:39Zagorat least the talked to us. for a while :-)
17:06:04SmallR2002i never understand why these guys don't see stuff like rockbox as a good alternative market
17:07:37Zagorthere has been much speculation on that topic, yes
17:07:48SmallR2002i mean, surely, help the alternatives along and you make more sales
17:08:02LloreanSmallR2002: You also increase your support costs for people who take our tools and do stupid things with them.
17:08:29SmallR2002but, surely, that's what specific warranties are for :p
17:08:38LloreanSmallR2002: You assume people are truthful.
17:08:45Zagoralso one could argue that people who run rockbox are less likely to be looking for a new player
17:08:52SmallR2002i do, that has been a bad thing before
17:09:16SmallR2002i am, i know of two other people who are
17:09:22SmallR2002not quite an army, but working on it
17:10:33Zagorgotta go. saving another big id3 restructure commit for tomorrow.
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17:11:04LloreanRockbox does certainly encourage a "make your MP3 player last forever" mindset rather than a "buy a new one to get new features" mindset.
17:12:04SmallR2002but 99% of the time you can't get past space, processor, ram and screen :p
17:12:31SmallR20021% of the time you might be able to upgrade the internal storage
17:12:54peturSmallR2002: wrong :)
17:13:12LloreanTake the e200 for example though. We upgraded "space" an awful lot by changing the limit of SD card size it could support from 2GB to 32GB (potentially up to a lot more)
17:13:25*petur installed a 80GB disk in his h340, and a CF card in his h320 :)
17:13:47SmallR2002more than 1% then :P
17:13:52LambdaCalculus37petur: How's everything working?
17:14:00SmallR2002Llorean, does that follow for the e280R?
17:14:08SmallR2002yay :)
17:14:17SmallR2002i'll go and buy a larger microsd card
17:14:25SmallR2002presuming it just takes standard sdhc?
17:14:45LloreanMicroSDHC, but yes.
17:14:49linuxstbSmallR2002: Remember you'll need a USB adapter though - Rockbox doesn't have USB support yet, and the original firmware won't like it.
17:14:51peturLambdaCalculus37: apart from my h380 bootloader problem and my dead h120 still waiting for a CF upgrade if/when Linus fixes it
17:14:58Lars_GLlorean: Yay I can revitalize my Sansa then!
17:15:17Lars_GLlorean: If I find a solution for podcasts (part is desktop side, part is rockbox side) I can even sell and drop my iPod!
17:15:30SmallR2002my box has a standard sd/sdhc slot in the front
17:16:29Lars_GLlorean: And the rockbox part I could make a patch for myself and all. it's a lot of work but I think I can do it.
17:16:29SmallR2002Lars_G, i would advise selling before dropping, dropped kit doesn't sell very well ;)
17:16:56LambdaCalculus37petur: Are the new bootloader versions for the H100 and H300 still giving you guys problems?
17:17:01Lars_GSmallR2002: Only if they notice :P lol. And, I use exclusively flash based players, just for that reason (I'm a dropaphobe)
17:17:22peturLambdaCalculus37: I only know of the h300 having an issue
17:17:50peturthe h100 just needs a new bootloader release
17:17:56SmallR2002Lars_G, it's way to easy to drop stuff... bring on the anti-gravity
17:18:12Lars_GHow battery expensive are atomic (small) writes to flash on a e260? anyone knows?
17:18:44LambdaCalculus37petur: Ahh, I though both still had issues.
17:18:53Lars_GMy podcast solution would require writting one small commit to flash about every 5 seconds.
17:19:17linuxstbLars_G: What is your podcast solution?
17:19:19LloreanLars_G: Why?
17:19:28*LambdaCalculus37 brings out the remains of his Dell Digital Jukebox... namely, the mainboard
17:19:56Lars_GMy trouble is remembering possitions of half played podcasts. And using bookmarks is not a perfect solution yet.
17:20:22LloreanLars_G: What would your solution give, that bookmarks doesn't?
17:20:25Lars_GSo I'm thinking on identifying (with some desktop side work) podcasts as such via ID3, and every 5 or 8 seconds storing the current listening position to an id3 field.
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17:21:54Lars_GLlorean: A) Support of saving positions of enqueued podcasts. B) Information is inherent to the mp3 file itself, thus I wouldn't need to find bookmarks instead of the podcast files and i'd be able to use the database for this. C) Eliminating the podcast during sync would eliminate the possition info as well, thus not creatting a litter of bookmarks left behind old episodes.
17:22:56LloreanLars_G: So you're talking about actually writing TO the podcast during playback?
17:23:42Lars_GLlorean: Aye, the disk version, it's id3 header on flash rather than the data buffered on ram.
17:23:58SmallR2002stupid question but...
17:24:10LloreanLars_G: Wouldn't it make sense just to write when you stop playback, rather than every 5 seconds?
17:24:11SmallR2002how do i navigate a microsd card from the sansa with rockbox?
17:24:56Lars_GLlorean: It would work, but only if I can intercept (via irq) the shutdown sequence from a timeout shutdown, so that I can also snapshot the possition if I paused the player and forgot it.
17:25:05LambdaCalculus37SmallR2002: In Files, you'll see a <microSD1> shortcut.
17:25:22SmallR2002i don't :/
17:25:22Lars_GLlorean: Also i'd have to write if I change tracks, as I sometimes want to skip a podcast to another one in my queue and then return to where I left... but it would work.
17:25:48Lars_GSmallR2002: It should be in the root dir. Make sure the card is properly inserted. In mine it took a few tries to get it in right at first
17:26:18SmallR2002pretty sure the card's in right
17:26:24SmallR2002maybe windows mobile trashed it...
17:26:57SmallR2002hmmm, it does generate some screen event in the top right hand corner
17:27:17Lars_GLlorean: The problem I see there is, that I am not very intimate with rockbox arch but correct me if I'm wrong... saving position while pausing, stopping, or changing tracks is something the player would have to initiate. But catching a shutdown or a timeout shutdown is something the kernel would do, and I am not sure if the player, or the programs in the device can catch that irq from the kernel and act upon it.
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17:31:51linuxstbDoesn't the LastFM/Scrobbler code do something similar to that?
17:33:21Lars_GLlorean: So, I know there are a miriad of valid reasons why something like what I want hasn't been done in rockbox. but I personally need it more than the pitfalls. do you think it can be made to work?
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19:41:29LambdaCalculus37Shouldn't the front page also mention the 4th generation nano as a model Rockbox doesn't work on?
19:41:56LloreanLambdaCalculus37: I'd prefer if it instead said "No other iPods are supported"
19:42:04domonokyjust add a "and newer ipods"
19:42:19LloreanWe shouldn't have to update it every single time Apple decides it wants a new coat of paint on the same old stuff.
19:42:49gevaertsThey only do that in september though, so that could be done with a cronjob
19:43:14LambdaCalculus37Llorean: Tell Apple to stop making new iPod models, then. ;)
19:43:34*gevaerts predicts that the next ipod nano will be called "5th generation"
19:44:05LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Ahh, that'll *really* get everyone confused as all get-up.
19:44:24gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: after that there will be the nano classic of course :)
19:45:02domonokyhow about a mini touch :-)
19:45:43domonokyplenty variations possible, and they probably will choose the most iritating one :-)
19:45:54LambdaCalculus37Llorean: In all seriousness though, who usually handles site updates?
19:46:22*linuxstb looks towards Sweden
19:46:47Bagderthe site is in svn
19:46:54Bagderwe just need to do the 'svn update'
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19:47:22amiconnBagder: Where can I find your script, and what adjustments do I need in order to build only certain targets?
19:47:46BagderI mean to commit all my release scripts tonight
19:48:48linuxstbBagder: So are you happy for other committers to change the website? It seems a bit more sensitive/in-need-of-moderation than Rockbox itself.
19:49:37BagderI'm fine with that yes
19:50:28Lloreanlinuxstb: I thought he said the website won't be changed until he has the server svn update on his end, anyway
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19:50:42LloreanSo it's not immediately "live"
19:51:46amiconnlinuxstb: I am wondering about ipod Color/Photo batteries. says it's 700mAh (for all sub-models), but mine actually has a 900mAh battery (saw that when replacing the hdd)
19:52:35linuxstbamiconn: I've no idea, I've never managed to open mine (I don't own any appropriate pieces of plastic, and have not really had a need to)
19:52:55*amiconn just used a small flat-head screwdriver
19:53:01LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: iFixit sells good iPod opening tools.
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19:53:25amiconnNo real need for a special tool (if you don't mind the risk of *small* scratches)
19:53:27LambdaCalculus37My iPod color battery is also a 900mAh battery.
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19:54:38amiconnI wonder whether this is an original battery (i.e. apple put higher capacity batteries in some of them), whether is wrong regarding the specs, or whether mine is an upgraded one
19:54:41LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Actually, IIRC the original iPod color/Photo battery is 650mAh (from what I remember reading on it when I pulled out the old one).
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20:12:37SmallR2002brilliant, my copy of mr bean plays :)
20:13:01SmallR2002just got to ffmpeg it into 4:3
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20:34:50BigBambigevaerts: I've been thinking (slightly prematurely I know) about MM3 buttons - Any thoughts? (anyone else too)
20:36:12gevaertsBigBambi: what's select? tap the touchstrip?
20:36:19BigBambiyes, in the centre
20:36:56 Quit J-23 ("Flying cow pressed ^D on my keyboard.")
20:37:12BigBambiI'm sure you've spotted, but the lists are function - button
20:37:36gevaertsI miss seeking
20:37:58BigBambiselect - switch scroll pad function and vol up/down or forward/back in track - scroll
20:38:11amiconn3 buttons shouldn't be difficult...
20:38:13BigBambiI just didn't call it seeking (I couldn't think of the word) :)
20:38:15amiconnErr, 6
20:38:30gevaertsah, ok. Not very friendly though
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20:38:38BigBambigevaerts: I agree
20:38:47BigBambiamiconn: The main problem is a complete lack of left and right
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20:39:05BigBambiamiconn: The only one I struggled with was track skipping and seeking in the WPS
20:39:46amiconnI'd drop the quickscreen if you're short on buttons
20:39:51gevaertsIf you use more fingers, you could do arrows-scroll. Also not very friendly
20:39:56amiconnThe Ondio has 6 buttons too, and no quickscreen
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20:40:28gevaertsamiconn: the problem is that it's not actually 6 buttons. There are three real buttons and a touchstrip
20:40:31BigBambiamiconn: Sure, that is doable - but then how would you habdle the WPS? We have three butoons, plus a scroll pad up and down (that can have a 'soft' fourth button in the centre
20:40:37amiconnThe quickscreen is a convenience feature, but it loses its purpose if the button needed for entering it is taken away from a more important function
20:40:59 Quit pierre- (Success)
20:41:09*gevaerts waits for JdGordon to want a wps mode button :)
20:41:21BigBambiI think it is more useful than changing WPS screen
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20:41:47BigBambiI can safely predict that that is one function we won't have on the MM3 :)
20:42:43amiconnWhat about introducing a direction mode?
20:43:08BigBambiAs in press a button to cycle the scroll pad through volume, seek and skip?
20:43:09amiconnI.e. use 'Select' or short 'M' to switch direction for seeking and skipping
20:43:16fmlHello. Why don't we merge two recording settings: channels (mono/stereo) and mono (L/R/L+R)? Then we had just one setting with four possible values instead of two settings. It would be more logical as well IMHO.
20:43:24amiconnThen Arrow would skip or seek into that direction
20:43:51gevaertsThat could also work.
20:44:03*gevaerts gives up on no-feedback operation
20:44:17amiconnThe advantage would be that this way even dirskip would work (short-long Arrow)
20:44:30BigBambiSo select switches between forward and backward, then arrow skips and hold arrow seeks
20:44:36gevaertsAt least that way no functions change, only direction
20:44:37BigBambiYes, that seems sensible
20:44:59gevaertsWe do need a wps tag then to indicate current direction
20:45:00amiconnThere should be a status bar icon that indicates the current direction
20:45:06amiconn(+ wps tag)
20:45:11BigBambior in fact, both
20:46:13*amiconn is still used to wps'es using the standard status bar, hence often forgets about those tags duplicating functionality
20:46:32BigBambiIn which case what do you think to putting the switch direction on long M and dropping the quickscreen, and keeping select to be go to browser/database?
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20:47:33amiconnYes, something like that. Perhaps it would be better to switch the meaning of short and long M
20:47:57BigBambishort changes direction and long to menu - yes, probably more convenient
20:48:28BigBambiYou want to seek/skip much more often than go to the menu
20:48:42gevaertsThat depends on usage I think
20:49:15BigBambisure, but I'm just going on what I do and assuming therefore so does everyone else :)
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20:50:18gevaertsI think we do want consistency though. Long M for menu would then mean Long M for menu everywhere
20:50:46BigBambiOK, I'll leave it as is for now
20:51:00gevaertsOK. Now do the doom button map :)
20:51:21BigBambiI'm going to get to plugins in a bit :)
20:51:54gevaertsThe MM3 is a great player to attack PLA with :)
20:51:58pixelmaI guess that would be quite convenient, long "mode" for calling the menu on the Ondio feels nice - leaves short for resume
20:52:28BigBambipixelma: We have a play button for resume (as I have done it at the moment)
20:53:21BigBambipixelma: Current effort:
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20:55:02BigBambipixelma: Any thoughts?
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20:55:44BigBambiWhere I say arrows by the way, it is one button, not arrow keys
20:55:45amiconnBigBambi: I suggested short M for direction switch and long M for menu because the direction switch is something that's more likely to be needed fast (if used)
20:55:46markungevaerts: PLA?
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20:55:58LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: Here?
20:56:09gevaertsmarkun: PluginLib Actions
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20:56:15amiconnGoing to the menu calls another screen anyway, hence doesn't need to be that fast
20:56:21mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: yes
20:56:34BigBambiamiconn: I think I agree that it makes more sense that way round, but as gevaerts said we ought to be consistent and have long M be menu everywhere then
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20:57:09gevaertsThe same argument also holds everywhere
20:57:31BigBambiamiconn: Do you not think that then is a little counter intuitive to say have short M quick screen and have to hold M to get the actual menu?
20:57:46BigBambiIn lists that is
20:57:58amiconnI'd drop the quickscreen, as I already said
20:58:22BigBambiAnd leave short M unused, or just have menu on M in general in lists?
20:58:37LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: Question... on the mainboard for the Dell DJ, there's a Creative-labelled chip on what appears to be a BGA connection; numbers on it read CA206-IAG 4A-39AF9WX. According to the information I have, this is a sound processor. Anything like this on the ZVM?
20:58:55BigBambiI'm quite happy with losing the quickscreen incidently
20:58:59LambdaCalculus37I'm wondering because I don't see anything that looks like a TMS320 DSP on the mainboard anywhere.
20:59:21amiconnIn case of the M3, it seems it's better to leave the menu on short M. Then I'm undecided what's better in the wps: consistency or quick operation
20:59:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:59:28mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: if I'm not mistaken, the ARM and the DSP are on the same chip
20:59:30mcuelenaerehence SoC
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20:59:31amiconnI guess this needs testing on the actual device
20:59:38BigBambiamiconn: I agree
20:59:45mcuelenaerebut I can't tell for the Dell DJ
20:59:52gevaertsWe'll test as soon as we have more than an lcd driver :)
21:00:07BigBambiPersonally, I'm erring towards consistency, but I don't really know
21:00:19mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: aren't there any scans available?
21:00:31BigBambigevaerts: scrollpad/buttons seem to be OK :)
21:00:35amiconnSpeaking about consistency, I should really prepare that patch for iaudio M5/X5 remote buttons (making them consistent with M3)
21:01:00LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: Yes, I made a scan and posted it on the DellDJPort page, albeit a crappy-looking scan.
21:01:25BigBambigevaerts: Any thoughts for a better name for the arrows button that arrows? Arrows is confusing - it suggests directional buttons
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21:02:02amiconnBigBambi: Does the MM3 have recording?
21:02:08LambdaCalculus37There's a Samsung chip to the left of the hard drive connector on the bottom center; the Creative chip is just above the Samsung chip.
21:02:11BigBambiamiconn: No
21:02:16BigBambiamiconn: No radio either
21:02:29*BigBambi checks
21:03:05BigBambiooops even
21:03:12BigBambiIt has both recording and FM radio!
21:03:40BigBambiand RTC
21:03:52gevaertsIt has all buttons on the front, so amiconn should like it ;)
21:04:01amiconnSo there are some more screens for button mapping
21:04:02BigBambiLooks like I had better do the radio and recording screens next :)
21:04:08amiconngevaerts: Bah, but touchy things
21:04:17amiconnBigBambi: Plus "Set time and date"
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21:09:05mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: do you know where the OP got the TMS320 reference from?
21:10:16mcuelenaere+ I think zook disassembled the Dell's DJ's firmware as valid TMS320 DSP instructions
21:10:51LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: This was a while back; I had found the information on a Dell DJ forum page.
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21:12:21fmlpetur (for the log): now I see why the two recording settings can't be merged (see my post above). Mono mode is only implemented for SW_CODEC. But when it gets implemented for all platforms I think they should be merged.
21:13:23fmlHmm... Actually, they can also be merged now. For not-SW_CODEC, only mono L would be available (with some #if's)
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21:20:29*LambdaCalculus37 may have to make a rewrite of the DellDJPort page
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21:32:02BigBambigevaerts / amiconn: latest
21:35:58*gevaerts gets the cowon d2 to enumerate on the usb bus, but mass storage doesn't work yet
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21:38:02gevaertsBigBambi: I'm actually wondering if the Arrow button wouldn't be better as Menu
21:39:13BigBambiCould well be - I chose M for two reasons - one M (M)enu, and secondly the Of uses it as menu. I know we don't pay any attention to them, but if we have to make a decision between two buttons we might as well not change it unless there is a good reason
21:39:17*gevaerts decides to take his d2 to work tomorrow, so he can actually trace what happens without having to rely on this impractical software tracing
21:40:01linuxstbgevaerts: Have you tried the DAX?
21:40:26BigBambiHowever, I don't really care if it is Arrow Button or M :)
21:43:30gevaertslinuxstb: trying now. That actually seems to even work
21:44:00gevaertsAt least until it resets the bus
21:46:02*gevaerts concentrates on the DAX for now
21:46:05amiconnfml: Right now, HWCODEC does mono-L+R, not mono-L
21:46:23amiconnMono-L is possible to implement for HWCODEC, mono-R is impossible
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21:49:28*shotofadds wonders what gevaerts is planning to do with TCC USB other than logf?
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21:50:14linuxstbshotofadds: Dump the raw nand pages?
21:51:30shotofaddslinuxstb: of course. although I think I'm not far off a breakthrough in that area now anyway ;)
21:52:17linuxstbshotofadds: Good news. Do you think write access is feasible now, or am I getting too optimistic?
21:53:35fmlamiconn: ok, the HWCODEC would only offer Mono L+R. But do you agree that it would be sensible to merge the settings? Because if you choose mono, you'd still better go to the other setting to check for the mono mode.
21:54:32amiconnI think so, although I don't really use recording.
21:54:34gevaertsshotofadds: I don't actually care about TCC usb, but it's the same controller as the meizus ;)
21:54:44Lloreanfml: I think it'd make sense to merge settings.
21:54:59amiconnIt also saves a setting, which is a good thing
21:55:25LloreanAnd it makes it less likely that someone's going to pick "Mono", not notice to change the other setting, and get an unwanted recording.
21:55:40shotofaddslinuxstb: I don't see why not, in the long term. It'd require an awful lot more understanding than we currently have, though. It's possibly not the impenetrable fortress I once thought it might be...
21:56:16shotofaddsgevaerts: bah, commonality is boring ;)
21:56:33linuxstbYes, we need more esoteric targets...
21:56:56amiconnIsn't the clip esoteric enough, with its 320KB RAM?
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21:57:18*amiconn is really curious how this port will work out
21:57:27fmlLlorean: that was also my main concern.
21:57:39shotofaddsgevaerts: if you had a play with your d2 today, did you notice if the LCD "missing lines" bug was fixed?
21:58:01fmlAnd one setting less as a bonus.
21:58:18Lloreanfml: A similar setting is the "Stereo Width" setting, since you have to set the Channels setting to "Custom" rather than intuitively assuming that you can safely leave it as "Stereo"
21:58:21gevaertsshotofadds: I'm just uploading with tcctool now. I didn't feel like fighting the nand unreliability
21:58:37LloreanThough you don't reduce the number of settings, you remove an option within one it's not obvious you need to change to.
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21:59:08gevaertsamiconn: I suspect that for the clip we may need to move a lot of "core" stuff to a plugin architecture
21:59:13linuxstbamiconn: I think the only way would be to move core code into plugins (but special "system plugins"). As it's flashed-based, the delay entering/leaving screens should be minimal. This in fact could be a good way to make the apps/ code more modular and reduce the maze of inter-dependencies.
21:59:30*gevaerts thinks of filebrowser, settings, database update, wps, ...
22:00:08amiconnI think that using thumb code for everything that's not performance critical will already help a lot
22:00:27shotofaddslinuxstb: that kind of architecture would benefit plugins like pictureflow too, if you care about such things
22:00:50fmlLlorean: with stereo width this wouldn't work since there you have very many values. Hence a separate setting is needed. Mono has few values. But it it would be possible, I'd also merge the settings for the stereo width.
22:00:58shotofadds(ie. currently it can't be used to select a track for playback)
22:00:58amiconnThen we need to teach our codecs how to use less ram (e.g. get rid of that malloc stuff)
22:01:27linuxstbI actually quite like the clip - it's a solid little player, and the buttons are nice. Shame there is no memory expansion.
22:01:51fmlLlorean: Actually I think that the setting "Custom" is not needed at all. Why not have just "Stereo" and apply the width then (100% by default)?
22:01:53Lloreanfml: You misunderstood.
22:02:07Lloreanfml: I was saying "Custom" should be removed, and "Stereo" should always apply the "Width" value.
22:02:17amiconnLlorean: I disagree
22:02:22Lloreanamiconn: why?
22:02:37mcuelenaeregevaerts: currently, Rockbox only support Bulk endpoints, right?
22:02:43LloreanMany users will surely go to Width, change it, and not realize they need to ever go to "Channels"
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22:02:56gevaertsmcuelenaere: yes. Interrupt should be easy though (as it's essentially the same)
22:03:00*shotofadds still doesn't understand the logic behind "Custom"
22:03:06mcuelenaereany chance the other ones will get used later?
22:03:10*linuxstb has a feeling of deja-vu about the "channels" setting discussion and greps the logs
22:03:13fmlLlorean: then I understood you better than you thought. Same opinion as yours. I was confused by the "Custom" setting first.
22:03:17gevaertsHow much RAM does the DAX have?
22:03:25mcuelenaereie should I implement some room in the USB design for the Ingenic targets?
22:03:27amiconnIt's more convenient to have both 'stereo' and 'custon'. Then you can set your preferred custom width and switch between that (for headphones) and pure stereo (for line-out) changing just one option
22:03:32Lloreanlinuxstb: I've brought it up before.
22:03:39Lloreanamiconn: Or using .cfg files.
22:03:53LloreanI think "make it less confusing for users" is good in this case.
22:04:04fmlLlorean: I'm with you here as well!
22:05:11LloreanThe first time I tried using it, I thought stereo width was broken because I was changing it and nothing happened. Had to go check the manual which then sent me back to a neighboring option for something that really *could* be intuitive.
22:05:11amiconnLlorean: Your method would also be confusing depending on the actual width. Stereo with width = 0 would be equal to Mono (which it actually is, hence calling it 'Custom' is more appropriate, imo)
22:05:21 Quit mf0102 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:06:07Lloreanamiconn: So we remove the 0 option, since it's a duplication of mono anyway...
22:06:08shotofaddsLlorean: I just thought it was broken and wasn't that interested in the setting to go consulting the manual. I'd guess a rather large proportion of users might do the same.
22:06:15*bluebrother wonders if anyone else but him got contacted off-list in that accessibility thread
22:06:56fmlamiconn: "stereo" just means that you have two distinct channels. And we can disable 0 as the width to always have it as a true stereo!
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22:09:14 Quit DismalArcadia_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:13:18gevaertsThe remaining tcc usb issue is not related to ata
22:14:04*gevaerts looks again
22:17:24pixelmaI also wondered first why stereo width wasn't working but I could ask someone...
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22:19:20fmlWhen such experts were confused by the setting then it's a clear sign that it should be removed. IMHO
22:20:08pixelmawell at that time I was a beginner
22:22:06pixelmabut I agree that it's not very intuitive
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22:24:31johwilmarkun: R U there?
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22:25:22fmlpixelma: I'd even say: it is veru unintuitive
22:25:25Lloreanjohwil: Please read the channel guidelines linked in the topic.
22:25:44johwili will
22:25:56johwilsry :)
22:26:10LloreanYou just broke them again, so I really encourage you to go ahead with that reading.
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22:26:22*gevaerts wonders why he suddenly can't run his code on the DAX anymore
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22:28:22mcuelenaeregevaerts: what's the status in void usb_core_transfer_complete(int endpoint, int dir, int status,int length); for?
22:28:45bertriklinuxstb, I'm impressed by the stuff done so far on the sansa v2 dual bootloader and the clip display and button readout
22:29:40gevaertsmcuelenaere: if it's non-zero something went wrong
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22:31:13linuxstbbertrik: Yes, some excellent reverse-engineering seems to be going on...
22:31:24johwildoes anyone know of a working ttf2fnt converter?
22:31:46bertrikI'm quite confident that we'll figure out the SD/MMC interface too since funman already seems to be able to get at least a reply to some commands. Also it looks like the audio control / pmu part will be relatively easy to port because it looks very similar to the as3514 (once we get i2c working).
22:31:52gevaertsThe meaning of the error values probably needs to be better defined. Currently I use the ARC transfer status directly. Nothing actually looks at the exact value though
22:32:44bertrikI'm not so sure what to work on myself. And I have some doubts if we'll be able to fit rockbox in the rather small amount of RAM
22:32:44Lloreanjohwil: I believe you'll need to go ttf2bdf then use Rockbox's BDF converter.
22:34:29mcuelenaeregevaerts (minor correction): shouldn't ARCOTG_DRV_H in usb-drv.h get renamed?
22:34:44linuxstbbertrik: Do you want to do low-level hardware stuff, or higher-level things?
22:35:04gevaertsmcuelenaere: yes
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22:36:24mcuelenaeregevaerts: does dir=0x80 in void usb_core_transfer_complete(int endpoint, int dir, int status, int length); mean USB_DIR_IN or should it be another value for that?
22:36:31bertriklinuxstb, low-level
22:36:33gevaertsvitja: (logs) The host resets the usb device because it doesn't get a reply to a SCSI READ command
22:37:52gevaertsmcuelenaere: It does mean USB_DIR_IN. That dir argument should probably go, as it should already be clear from ep
22:38:12mcuelenaereok, so currently I should set endpoint | USB_DIR_IN & int dir?
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22:40:16linuxstbbertrik: And you've just got a Clip?
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22:44:49Hillshumwhat do i do after building the output of tools/configure for e200v2 bootloader on git?
22:45:48linuxstbI think there are instructions in the Makefile in the version of mkamsboot in git. If you're building a bootloader from git, you need to use the git mkamsboot.
22:46:18saratogahas anyone looked at how much space codecs actually use?
22:46:52linuxstbsaratoga: I don't think so, but someone definitely should.
22:47:23Lloreansaratoga: Bug report on the tracker that might interest you.
22:47:26bertriklinuxstb, yes I have a clip and I've been able to build and install the git bootloader with some test code
22:47:28Lloreansaratoga: Non-linear response for MP3 and AAC recently
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22:48:04johwilLlorean: Thank you, but i belive markun was working on a ttf2fnt converter a few years ago. Hence my question.
22:48:05linuxstbbertrik: I was just thinking that the other V2 targets seem to be in need of developers - there are lots of LCD drivers to write...
22:48:37linuxstbbertrik: Although if the m200v2 is still a 128x64 mono LCD, I would guess the Clip LCD driver might work...
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22:49:00saratogalooking at the map file, i don't see any obvious field indcating the total memory used by a codec
22:49:14saratogathough i guess i could do largest D and I RAM addresses
22:49:32Hillshumwhere is makeamsboot it git? i can't find it
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22:49:50linuxstbHillshum: Should be in rbutil/ I think. Otherwise, try utils/AMS/
22:50:20linuxstbsaratoga: Yes, plus look at the source to see which codecs use the malloc buffer (and/or grab the remaining space in the codec buffer).
22:50:20 Quit fml ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:50:29saratogaLlorean: if its happening with WAV its not one of my commits
22:50:35saratogai'd guess he has the EQ on and doesn't realize it
22:51:02bertriklinuxstb, possibly, doesn't it also use one of those ssd controller? Even the display size is the same
22:51:18Lloreansaratoga: Ah, read over the "wave"
22:51:51linuxstbbertrik: Yes, the Clip driver in svn is based on the driver used by the m200v1 and Logik DAX.
22:53:36bertrikhmm, sounds like low-hanging fruit :P
22:54:29 Join fluoblack [0] (
22:54:38fluoblackhello everybody
22:55:17saratogaheh my WMA fix for the big I introduced with the IMDCT library in July fixed jgsprenger's problem, although hes been telling me for a month that builds from August worked fine . . .
22:56:08saratogabig -> bug
22:56:18BigBambibig bug? :)
22:57:18fluoblackI'm trying to install the bootloader (loader2) on my 3G ipod vut I get this message: Firmware partition doesn't contain Apple copyright, aborting.
22:57:31fluoblackany clue?
22:58:16Hillshumis it a 3g nano or classic?
22:58:22fluoblack3G classic
22:58:23linuxstbNone at all - loader2 isn't anything to do with Rockbox.
22:58:41saratogai guess assuming that the sample rate was always 44.1 or 48k was a pretty big bug
22:58:47fluoblackyeah but ipodpatcher is
22:59:20fluoblackand that's where the bug is I believe
22:59:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:59:28BigBambifluoblack: So? We don't support loader2
22:59:35saratogatry installing our bootloader to confirm
22:59:49fluoblackok I'll try that
22:59:55saratogai mean obviously if you can't confirm a bug, theres no sense reporting it . . .
22:59:58Lloreanfluoblack: They provide their own version of iPodPatcher anyway.
23:00:26linuxstbfluoblack: Does the Apple firmware work fine on your ipod?
23:00:32saratogai should really read through hte ipl instructions so i figure out what of ours they actually use
23:00:37BigBambiAnd ipodpatcher requires a fully working Apple firmware. That message normally suggests it isn't
23:01:23bertriklinuxstb, AFAIK current sansa v2 experimenters are funman (clip), atomikpunk (e200v2?), me (clip), jdgordon (e200v2), kugel (?), Hillshum and you. Did I miss anyone?
23:01:48Hillshumkugel has a fuze
23:01:48bertrikIs anyone working on the sansa m200v2 at all?
23:01:52fluoblackwell i'm confused now, (sorry, it's my first install)
23:01:54linuxstbbertrik: I'm not sure - I haven't been following development closely.
23:02:08linuxstbbertrik: But jdgordon hasn't started work yet IIUC.
23:02:19Hillshumbetrik: yeah
23:02:36linuxstbLlorean: Didn't you buy some m200v2s and give them to people at devcon? Or am I confusing things?
23:02:40BigBambifluoblack: Just as a heads up, if you want support here in the future you will need to use the Rockbox bootloader, and not loader2
23:02:56HillshumI'm more of a tester than coder(but will learn soon)
23:03:04fluoblackI backed up the original firmware and did all the magic in order to install ipodlinux, but should I restore this firmware BEFORE I install the bootloader?
23:03:17fluoblacknow that I said that it seems obvious
23:04:03Learsaratoga: Related to codec size, at least Vorbis and AAC can (try to) allocate more than what the malloc buf provides.
23:04:24fluoblackall right, I'll speak to the concerned people at ipodlinux, thanks for the hints
23:04:25 Join Xerion [0] (
23:04:27Learsaratoga: For AAC, that isn't too hard to fix or at least reduce a lot.
23:04:39saratogaLear: any idea what they try and allocate?
23:04:57n1ssaratoga, Lear: do you think FS #9410 can (should) be closed?
23:05:30Learsaratoga: Vorbis allocates big codebooks and stuff; core codec things at least. There's the lowmem branch of Tremor that recudes that, but it makes for slower decoding.
23:05:41Learsaratoga: For AAC, primarily seek tables.
23:06:40saratogalooking at WMA, I only see about 200k + IRAM worth of addresses
23:06:47Lloreanlinuxstb: Yes, I did.
23:06:47saratogaand its a very similar codec as Vorbis
23:07:08 Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
23:07:25saratogawhy does AAC need seek tables?
23:07:38Learn1s: I haven't noticed the problem at least. And I do a bit of seeking in MP3.
23:09:45Learsaratoga: To be able to seek accurately? :) I don't know if there are any magic bytes to seek for, but I do know that if you pass FAAD a buffer that doesn't begin with a real frame, you just get an odd error back.
23:10:12 Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:14:55linuxstbI can't remember the details, but I think either the ALAC or AAC decoder needing the compressed frame size passed to the decode function. IIRC, the seek table is basically a list of compressed frame sizes (in bytes).
23:15:02linuxstbBut that could possibly be revisited...
23:15:16 Join massiveH [0] (
23:18:52LearNot really, for AAC at least. It needs to be passed at least a frame, and there's a define you can pass if you don't really know. But you do need the frame sizes (among other things) to locate where frames start...
23:23:26 Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat")
23:24:17 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:29:21linuxstbLear: Are you talking about seeking or for normal playback?
23:30:42LearBoth actually. I've encountered MP4's with gaps in them, and playback failed if those gaps weren't skipped.
23:32:59linuxstbI know flac also stores the seektable - but that's only needed to assist seeking (Rockbox can seek without one). And then we have all those non-streaming codecs...
23:34:19LearYes, that's possible if you can detect a frame start somehow.
23:36:24linuxstbLear: Does vorbis use both the remaining space in the codec buffer and the malloc buffer?
23:38:28*linuxstb wonders why vorbis.c is (C) 2002 Zagor...
23:38:44LearJust the malloc buffer (and some static buffers, but I guess those don't count), AFAICR.
23:39:37 Quit faemir (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:40:01linuxstbWould it make sense to merge the two buffers - so we have a 1MB codec buffer? It would then seem easier to reduce it...
23:40:07 Join faemir [0] (
23:40:26*linuxstb volunteers Mr Someone for that job
23:42:03Learlinuxstb: Now that you mention it: why wasn't it done like that from the beginning? :)
23:42:16 Join lasser [0] (
23:43:13LearHm, maybe there was no easy way to determine amount of space left back then?
23:43:31linuxstbOr maybe we just hoped it would be temporary...
23:44:09 Join funman [0] (n=fun@
23:44:45funmanbertrik: (I was just reading the logs) atomikpunk works on the Clip as well
23:44:47 Join krazykit [0] (
23:44:56funmanin fact most if not all the reverse engineering is made by him
23:45:39funmanhe started on a m200 but broke it, and bought some Clips to continue hacking (because they are the cheapest of all v2 I guess)
23:45:47funmannot to mention their sexyness
23:46:50 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:47:13 Quit idshark (Remote closed the connection)
23:47:13funmanBy the way I found the part of the OF which initializes the SD card, and it looks exactly like the method described in the SD standard v2.00 and the various SD drivers I have read
23:47:28 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
23:47:45funmanIt handles MMC, SD, and SDHC
23:48:29funmansince the Clip's "SD card" is not removable, I think it's worthless
23:48:42*Nico_P discovers VLC can read chapters from M4B podcasts
23:50:13 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
23:50:15funmanWhen looking at the same code in the FuZe OF, I couldn't find reference to SD's CMD8 (which is used to determine if Card is SD or SDHC), however it seems that the FuZe has a microSDHC expansion slot
23:51:06linuxstbDoes the m200v2 look the same as the v1?
23:51:40linuxstbFrom the outside...
23:51:46Bagderthey're identical to me
23:51:58 Quit mcuelenaere ("Zzzzzz")
23:52:05linuxstbBagder: Ah, you admit to having one? ;)
23:52:13Bagderuuhhh.. no!
23:52:20Bagdertwo in fact ;-)
23:52:26Hillshumnot even a "v2" stamped on the back like e200
23:52:32funmansince SanDisk makes no marketing difference I believe they are the same
23:52:41BagderI have a v1 and a v2
23:52:43funman.. same external appearance
23:53:10 Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@
23:53:41 Join Boopop [0] (n=892c01c8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:53:44 Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
23:53:47BoopopHi all
23:53:58BoopopMy iPod won't switch on >.> Can anyone help?
23:54:13BoopopI plug into my PC - Nothing from either PC or iPod
23:54:18linuxstbHold MENU+SELECT together for up to about 30 seconds
23:54:24BoopopI plug it into macbook = same
23:54:25BoopopDone that
23:54:36linuxstbFor at least 30 seconds?
23:54:40BoopopMaybe not for 30 seconds!
23:54:49BoopopIt didn't take that long when it was working...
23:55:04BoopopI'll try it for 1 minute now
23:55:44Boopopnow I'm on a IRC chat room, asking for help
23:55:47Boopopit decides to work
23:55:55Boopopdespite me doing exactly the same thing 5 minutes ago
23:56:00BoopopAnyway, thanks! lmao
23:56:02gevaertsYou see, asking for help always works :)
23:56:43funmanHi, my SD driver for sansav2 doesn't work, can you help ?
23:56:55linuxstbHold MENU+SELECT together for up to about 30 seconds
23:57:26funmanI have a select button on the gameboy, but not on the Clip, shall I press it ? ;)
23:57:38linuxstbThat's your problem then...
23:58:44 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
23:58:55fluoblacki still have the same problem with RockBox's ipodpatcher

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