#rockbox 2008-10-16

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#rockbox log for 2008-10-16

00:00:05	*	gevaerts looks for someone to blame for an mp3 related bug
00:00:17	saratoga	blame me its probably my fault
00:00:30	gevaerts	I have a few mp3 files that play fine on H120 and ipod mini, but not on gigabeat F
00:00:40	saratoga	most codec bugs are my fault since no one else touches them
00:01:03	saratoga	the F uses different code for the synth filter on the gigabeat I believe
00:01:26	saratoga	that came out wrong, but we use a different synth filter on the F then the Ipods
00:01:41	saratoga	so that would be my first guess if theres a difference that doesn't show up elsewhere
00:01:44	Bagder	"Hate to see people talk ***** about rockbox because they don't like the themes. Making a theme yourself is relatively easy and those folks at rockbox spent the good part of the last 7 years making the best damn firmware replacement ever on 28 different players."
00:01:52	Bagder	(from http://digg.com/linux_unix/15_Rockin_Rockbox_Themes_for_iPod)
00:02:36	*	gevaerts decides to try 3.0 as well
00:02:38	saratoga	is the e200v2 erase firmware trick known?
00:02:55		Quit dany_21a_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:03:12	markun	johwil: I'm here now
00:03:36		Join Schmogel [0] (n=Miranda@p3EE21B50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:03:44	funman	saratoga: what do you mean?
00:04:30	funman	saratoga: reading the thread
00:04:43	amiconn	saratoga: There's an important difference between the sansa V1 and the ipods: the ipods use the ATA interface. Sansa uses SD
00:05:06	*	amiconn would like to know some details regarding the PP ATA controller as well
00:05:10	saratoga	thats true
00:05:21	amiconn	Like, how to use UDMA (the product brief says it supports that)
00:05:26	saratoga	i suppose skimming the ipod and H10 scans looking for a jtag might be a good idea
00:05:49	gevaerts	Interesting. If I strip the tags it plays
00:05:52		Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
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00:06:30	Bagder	amiconn: isn't that related to the DMA stuff MrH documented?
00:06:40	amiconn	I don't know
00:06:45	Bagder	http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/SIDMA_interface.txt
00:06:47	saratoga	the DMA is
00:06:55	saratoga	Buschel actually wrote an SD driver using it
00:07:00	saratoga	but the UDMA is not
00:07:04	Bagder	aha
00:07:29	ameyer	IIRC the sd driver using dma was actually slower than the old non-dma driver
00:08:24	amiconn	Well, UDMA is a mode you can put ATA devices into. Afaiu it needs some kind of DMA engine on the system's side, but in fact I can't even imagine how ATA MDMA/UDMA is supposed to work on a PC...
00:08:31	saratoga	is there any sort of common hardware I could scavange one of these stupid 20 pin ARM ribbon cables from: http://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2257
00:08:45	saratoga	i'm thinking about cutting down a floppy connector
00:09:20		Quit PaulJam (".")
00:09:24	gevaerts	So why do some id3 tags trip up a gigabeat but not an ipod?
00:09:42	saratoga	i'm going to guess because a buffer is being overflowed
00:09:42	n1s	gevaerts: are they runnig the same rev?
00:09:57	saratoga	and the Ipod is arranged in memory in a way that it doesn't overwrite anything important
00:10:41	gevaerts	n1s: tried with new builds straight from the servers on mini, gigabeat and h120, and also 3.0 on gigabeat
00:11:15		Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:12:50	amiconn	Anyone with an archos fm recorder or recorder v2 around?
00:12:50		Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
00:13:06	n1s	gevaerts: does it work in the sim?
00:13:10	amiconn	(who doesn't mind trying a shiny new flash image)
00:13:31	massiveH	amiconn, I have one
00:13:37	massiveH	FM recorder
00:14:03	*	massiveH has to find batteries for it though
00:14:29	*	gevaerts builds a sim
00:14:35	amiconn	The fm recorder uses a proprietary LiIon battery...
00:14:53		Quit sarixe ("Ex-Chat")
00:16:03	massiveH	um.. no? it uses AAs...
00:16:35	massiveH	wait, I'm messing the name up, I have the recorder 20 (v1)
00:16:39	amiconn	Then it's not an fm recorder
00:16:54	amiconn	Yep, the v1 uses AA, but that one I can test myself (I already did)
00:17:21	*	amiconn is currently flashing all his archoses to 3.0.1 using the new full-flash images
00:17:48	gevaerts	n1s: yes it does
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00:18:22	n1s	gevaerts: too, bad, debugging on the sim is much nicer...
00:18:28	n1s	s/,//
00:19:28	funman	saratoga: there is reference to this string in the Clip OF as well, in the "wav_codec " library block
00:20:02	funman	but I can't use the method described to get to this mode
00:20:41	gevaerts	n1s: as a datapoint, resetting settings doesn't help
00:20:47	dany_21a_	hm...strange "erase" function
00:21:08	dany_21a_	i tried at my e280V2 - afterthis it stuck after the sansa-logo
00:21:39	dany_21a_	if i connected it with USB to a PC it also stuck there, and the PC didnt see an USB connection
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00:22:13		Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:22:21	n1s	gevaerts: this might be good to post on flyspray, as this kind of weird metadata bugs could be the cause behind some of those nasty database init failures.
00:22:33	dany_21a_	I reconnected it sometimes over USB, now suddently it get into the USB-transfer mode and the computer saw the normal mass storage (not the recovery one)
00:22:34		Quit bughunter2 ("bye")
00:22:58	dany_21a_	and now it boots the OF again (_without_ any restore operation from my side)
00:23:29	gevaerts	n1s: the problem is that I don't want to make the offending file available publically
00:23:59	funman	the ROM has a very (some function 100% identical, and some other close to it) similar SD code than what is in the OF
00:24:07	n1s	gevaerts: try slapping the tag onto something else? :)
00:24:09	funman	Note that I'm comparing e200v2 ROM and Clip OF
00:25:14	gevaerts	n1s: great idea. Can I send you the file so you do that?
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00:26:20	n1s	gevaerts: I could try but I would have no idea if the new file was broken...
00:27:35	*	gevaerts does some more tests
00:29:28	*	gevaerts is really confused now
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00:30:50	*	gevaerts looks for a forehead to slap
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00:32:04		Quit blahrus ("Ex-Chat")
00:32:19	gevaerts	n1s: now that my playlist has correct paths, it works
00:32:47	n1s	gevaerts: that should help, yes :)
00:32:52	funman	dany_21a_: I don't see the cmd8 (to check SDHC) used in the e200 ROM, nor did I see it in the FuZe OF
00:33:02	funman	is the e200 advertised as supporting SDHC ? microSDHC ?
00:33:07	*	gevaerts swears that he also tried the file individually
00:35:04	dany_21a_	funman: sorry... dont know anything about that
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00:42:55	funman	hi fdinel, did you read about the great work of dany_21a_ ?
00:43:52	fdinel	Hi, no not yet, I'll be back in about an hour :) Can you point me to his work description/repos?
00:44:09	funman	he dumped the e200 ROM
00:44:22	fdinel	btw, I did have a look (and hacked a bit) about the SD but didn't find anything yet :)
00:44:25	fdinel	fine
00:44:27	fdinel	bbl :D
00:45:03	funman	fdinel: just check today (well, yesterday european time) irc logs
00:45:24	fdinel	is there a file somewhere to download? :)
00:45:31	funman	unfortunately it is very similar, some functions are even 100% identical (except the offsets) to the Clip OF
00:46:00	funman	I discouraged him to put it online for possible legal reasons, but if you pray hard enough you'll have it in your mailbox
00:48:55	dany_21a_	the dump is now in the git
00:49:13	funman	cool ;)
00:49:25	dany_21a_	but the dump has some missing data (lost sync while downloading)
00:50:17	funman	ah this is why I saw a lot of 0 ..
00:51:16		Quit n1s ()
00:51:42	dany_21a_	so... enough for today (ah...yesterday :) ) - bye to all... cu
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00:55:38	funman	fdinel: a hint before I go to bed: look at the cmdPend argument of send_cmd function (last one on the stack), especially for cmd 55 & 41
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02:02:04	Lars_G	ok tagcache is the db right?
02:02:34		Nick blkhawk- is now known as blkhawk (n=blkhawk@g228069066.adsl.alicedsl.de)
02:05:32	Lars_G	Ok here we go, I'm plugging rockbox into my ide :D
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02:19:12	saratoga	wow taking apart the fuze is not simple
02:19:41	Lars_G	Any one in here uses netbeans as their ide?
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02:31:02	Lars_G	Would you help me some?
02:31:55	Lars_G	I see there are some include files that exist on my build dir...... where do those come from? I don't want to add the build dir to the sources dirs in netbeans, but otherwise these headers throw a non found error when included (in the IDE)
02:34:30	saratoga	i've never heard of anyone developing rockbox in an IDE, so you may be the first person to try netbeans
02:35:10	Lars_G	saratoga: someone in the forums uses eclipse at least... I'll keep digging
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02:53:40	andrewjack	hi,there
02:53:50	andrewjack	can I ask you something?
02:54:07	Lars_G	Let's see.
02:54:12	andrewjack	I have iriver H10
02:54:55	andrewjack	using rockbox
02:55:27	andrewjack	when I play the music
02:55:34	andrewjack	I can change phitch
02:55:57	andrewjack	but when I turn off and on the player
02:56:14	andrewjack	the pitch is not changed
02:56:31	andrewjack	sorry for my poor english
02:56:34	Lars_G	So it doesn't saves the pitch shift.
02:56:53	Lars_G	I don't think there is a way to save it right now. you'll have to change it every time you turn it on.
02:57:12	Lars_G	When you change pitch you're not altering the music file, you're just telling the player to play it slower/faster
02:58:00	andrewjack	thank you for your kind andswer
02:58:05	saratoga	I think that shouldn't be
02:58:13	saratoga	settings are meant to be saved so it sounds like a bug
02:58:42	Lars_G	saratoga: pitch shifting a song "live" is not a setting per se, it's a state.
02:59:22	andrewjack	then everytime i play the music, everytime i change the pitch?
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03:00
03:00:25	saratoga	ah i see
03:01:48	Hillshum	Who's gotten to the e200v2 firmware erase screen? I can't seem to get to it?
03:01:51	andrewjack	pitch setting can't be saved? I think some other settings can be saved, by editng "config.cfg" file.
03:03:57	Hillshum	Okay, now I just erased it
03:04:13		Quit MethoS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:05:13	Hillshum	It seems to work fine still
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03:27:29	Lars_G	I bet audio_thread.c is the one receiving the audio buffer queue_sends right?
03:29:28	Lars_G	meh queue_post
03:33:06	saratoga	i'm having some trouble finding the jtag header on the fuze
03:33:26	saratoga	theres a row of pins that looks like one and has a ground, but theres 8 while the clip and m200 jtag had just 7 pins
03:37:40	saratoga	actually it looks like the V2 e200 has 8 pins as well so maybe thats normal
03:38:18	Hillshum	have you tried to get the firmware erase screen?
03:41:14	saratoga	its a fuze so i don't know if it works
03:41:19	saratoga	but no haven't tried
03:42:19	*	Hillshum wonders
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04:00
04:07:45	saratoga	theres basically no way i can solder to the connector on the fuze
04:08:03	saratoga	i tried a single strand of 30 guage wire and even that is too big
04:19:37	Hillshum	saratoga: where are the pads?
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04:23:03	saratoga	Hillshum: they're along the side where the battery connects
04:24:04	saratoga	http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/images/sansa-fuze-disassembled-main.jpg
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04:26:51	Hillshum	eek! too small
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04:39:20	XavierGr	saratoga: Linus connected his bdm on similar pads like these, but he soldered a connector on them not wires directly
04:39:39	XavierGr	maybe you could find something similar, let me check the logs
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04:40:59	stevenm	Hi. If anyone has an archos recorder... can someone please tell me what battery voltage it claims?
04:41:07	XavierGr	saratoga: maybe something like this? http://se.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=9786350
04:42:18	XavierGr	saratoga: though I am not sure what he used on the other end of the connector. If it is a ribbon cable then it wouldn't be so helpful for you I guess...
04:43:41	saratoga	XavierGr: ribbon cable is fine I'd just need to find the same size pin spacing on a socket or whatever
04:44:04	saratoga	i was actually planning to solder ribbon cable wires to the pads before i saw how small they were
04:44:19	XavierGr	ah I mean different kind of ribbon cable
04:44:41	XavierGr	the ones that are two small to do anything with them except put them on their socket
04:44:47	XavierGr	two = too
04:45:01	XavierGr	like ZIF sockets
04:47:46	XavierGr	saratoga: the pins for the bdm wiggler on H100 is on the middle left side, under the lcd, over the black component with "100" written on it
04:47:51	XavierGr	saratoga: http://download.rockbox.org/device-pictures/iriver/naked_front.jpg
04:49:14	XavierGr	they seem similar, though on fuze's case there are fewer pins
04:50:12	saratoga	yeah the spacing is similar
04:50:31	saratoga	i wonder if i could get a socket or something, clamp it in place, and then try to solder one pin at a time
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06:08:48	Again617	Hi, I'm interested in working towards getting Rockbox running on the Sansa FUZE. Has there been any development for the FUZE so far? Can someone guess how similar the FUZE would be to other Sansa devices?
06:15:59	advcomp2019	Again617, there is a few people working on the fuze, but i do not know if they are here yet
06:16:12	Again617	thanks
06:16:46	Again617	I'd like to help, would you know how I would get in contact with them?
06:17:27	advcomp2019	try the forums or wait in here
06:17:34	Again617	Okay
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07:54:13	B4gder	amiconn: should we pretend the "flash" images for archos is like the bootloaders then and put them under the bootloader dir on the download server?
07:54:18		Quit miepchen^schlaf_ ()
07:55:57	amiconn	I'm not sure. They are similar to the bootloaders in a way as they won't (shouldn't) change often. But otoh they are different as they are not required to run rockbox
07:56:51	*	amiconn wonders how much work it would be to add support for the flash packages (would be just download + decompression) to rbutil
07:56:57	B4gder	true, but we don't need to claim that. I just want a better place in the dir tree than in the 3.0.1 dir then if they are likely to be used for other releases too
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07:59:27	amiconn	Yeah, they're more like the bootloaders than the releases
07:59:53	B4gder	I'll put them in bootloader/archos for now
08:00
08:00:44	amiconn	They shouldn't change often. Reasons to change them would be important fixes to ata, fat, or charging (recorder v1 only)
08:05:03	amiconn	Getting rombox back for the recorders or Ondio FM isn't possible with current rockbox, even with a significant reduction of bootbox size. The current uncompressed fm/v2 binary is even larger than the whole ROM....
08:15:49		Quit syn4pse_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
08:18:43	linuxstb	amiconn: How much bigger is it?
08:22:04	GodEater	why, have you got a new magic compressor ? :)
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08:27:49	amiconn	424 bytes for 3.0.1 on fm/v2
08:28:35	amiconn	GodEater: We do have compression so that rockbox can be flashed, but that obviously rules out rombox, i.e. executing directly from rom
08:29:53	GodEater	amiconn: hence magic ;)
08:31:24	amiconn	Btw, the uncomressed fm/v2 binary is 424 bytes larger than the whole ROM. Of course we cannot use the whole rom for main rockbox, as the flash loader (required, also includes a serial monitor) and bootbox also take some room
08:32:10		Quit BigBambi (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
08:32:20	amiconn	The flash loader needs a little more than 2KB for romless boxes, and about 1.5KB on boxes equipped with boot ROM. On those, there's also a 256 byte header required by the boot rom
08:32:59	amiconn	Together with bootbox, 28KB of the flash are currently taken on all targets (flash can only be allocated in 4KB steps - the size of a flash block)
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08:52:53	amiconn	?
08:59:51	LinusN	wrong window :-)
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11:29:33	JdGordon	(ignoreing the fact this probably wont go in....) has anyone got a better sentance for the setting which would allow wps tags to steal buttons? "Allow WPS tags to steal button presses"
11:30:07	JdGordon	also, where in the menu should the setting go?
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12:18:50	JdGordon	amiconn: can you double check FS #9360? im pretty sure its fixed...
12:20:10	Zagor	JdGordon: "intercept" instead of "steal", perhaps?
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12:21:16	JdGordon	well, intercept can be taken to mean that it jumps in but could still work... steal is obvious that the button wont work as expeted
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12:24:12	BigBambi	reassign?
12:26:15	JdGordon	Nico_P: any objection to renaming your handle events to BUFFER_EVENT_* ?
12:26:52	Nico_P	JdGordon: no, especially if that makes them more standard
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12:27:21	JdGordon	I want to use HANDLE_EVENT_* but that sounds a bit confusing...
12:27:40	Nico_P	BUFFER_EVENT sounds better to me
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12:38:56	linuxstb	JdGordon: Who is asking for such a setting (stealing WPS buttons)? Or do you think it's a good idea?
12:40:46	JdGordon	llorean was pushing the idea of adding the setting so buttons dont magically get reassinged (this is the view mode patch), I personally dont tihnk there is any point adding the setting because themers will just set it in the .cfg anyway
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12:42:18	linuxstb	I don't like the idea of that setting - I think we should let the button be used that way, or we don't, it's not something a user should worry about.
12:45:25	B4gder	I don't understand what it would do
12:46:40	JdGordon	if the setting is set to off/no (the default) then the view mode tag would be ignored... i.e the browse button would stay the browse button
12:46:58	JdGordon	the point was so users dont try a theme and wonder why the button no longer works
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12:48:21	JdGordon	is FS #7482 a bug or what its supposed to do? (apparently only return the filename, not full path of the current track if no id3 info is available)
12:48:22	Zagor	for that to work, it will have to be restricted from being set by the config file
12:48:43	linuxstb	The button will not "no longer work" - it will still do something immediately obvious to the user.
12:48:52	Zagor	JdGordon: sounds like a bug to me
12:49:13	JdGordon	yeah, which is not something I want to add.. Llorean thinks we could use the new theme site to reject themes which did this
12:49:42	JdGordon	Zagor: so commit the patch?
12:50:49	Zagor	JdGordon: imho yes
12:50:52	pixelma	Zagor: how would you set it then at all?
12:51:16	pixelma	permanently
12:51:21	Zagor	pixelma: in a settings menu, presumably.
12:52:03	pixelma	but the setting would have to be stored somewhere if you want it to be available at next boot
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12:52:54	JdGordon	yeah, which is why I dont want to add code to not let it be loaded from configs other than config.cfg
12:55:05	*	linuxstb thinks we shouldn't make decisions about Rockbox features based on what we think the stupidest users might get confused about
12:55:16	JdGordon	hear hear!
12:55:45	pixelma	the stupidest user? Thanks
12:56:41	linuxstb	pixelma: Are you saying that you would be confused by a theme using JdGordon's patch?
12:56:52	linuxstb	pixelma: Given that you know about it...
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12:57:45	linuxstb	pixelma: I wasn't thinking of you at all when I wrote that sentence - it was comments from people saying it would confuse other people
12:57:57	pixelma	I imagine I'd be surprised at first, confused might be a bit strong.
12:58:07	pixelma	I could be
12:58:24	linuxstb	But the button will change something in the WPS, so I think it would be clear it's a feature of that WPS.
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12:59:01	linuxstb	Especially if "multi-view WPSs" become common.
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13:00:46	pixelma	and then I have to find another way to the browser? The only way I would imagine as somewhat logical is the second last suggestion by Llorean in the flyspray entry - cycle through possible view modes and in the end get to the filebrowser
13:01:38	linuxstb	But it's your choice to use the theme or not.
13:01:40	JdGordon	well the other option is choosing the button based on the target...
13:01:55	JdGordon	cycling will probably really annoying
13:02:17	pixelma	why?
13:03:23	linuxstb	I think I would want to cycle through just the WPS screens, not WPS screens + browser. The browser isn't far away via the menu
13:03:43	Zagor	how about a popup informing the user that "this wps theme has reassign one or more buttons"?
13:03:51	Zagor	when it's first loaded, I mean
13:04:13	JdGordon	pixelma: well, for one thing, if you keep pressing and go too far you will be put in the browser (where you dont want to be) and then pressing again might start a different playlist accidently
13:04:35	*	amiconn thought we have a strict policy saying no configurable buttons
13:04:39	linuxstb	I guess I don't see it as "reassigning". If that patch is committed, the button becomes "change WPS view mode (in multi-view themes) or enter browser".
13:04:56	amiconn	I do object against having those enter through the back door
13:05:25	Zagor	linuxstb: aha, it's only one button? I haven't actually looked at the patch...
13:05:38	JdGordon	I dont see this as configurable buttons... its a single button change
13:07:17	amiconn	Well, if some WPSes use that button for cycling and some don't, it's a configurable button
13:08:47	JdGordon	I take the configurable buttons policy to mean things like remapping the buttons to anything arbitrarily... using options to change buttons actions between 2 (or maybe a few) hard coded options isnt the smae
13:08:48	JdGordon	same
13:09:16	linuxstb	It's not even an option - it's a feature in a .wps file which requires a button press to use.
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13:10:59	pixelma	if I could just remember exactly... there was a similar thing I believe similar thing in the Gigabeast's OF (cycling through view modes though I think it was different ways to browse) and it confused me
13:11:21	pixelma	only one...
13:11:46	pixelma	linuxstb: but some WPSs have it, others don't
13:13:11	linuxstb	Yes, that's true. But as I've said in other places, I would like to see (and try) some themes using this feature before deciding if I'm completely for or against it.
13:20:44	mcuelenaere	linuxstb: do you still have the theme site data package?
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14:28:24	mcuelenaere	gevaerts: I get http://pastebin.com/d5e98dfaf when including usb_core.h, is this normal?
14:29:55	mcuelenaere	and shouldn't #define NUM_ENDPOINTS be declared in usb_drv.h ?
14:32:28	gevaerts	mcuelenaere: you need to define HAVE_USBSTACK to get struct usb_transfer_completion_event_data
14:32:51	mcuelenaere	ok
14:33:49	gevaerts	for NUM_ENDPOINTS you're probably right
14:35:30	mcuelenaere	it seems like the MIPSel compiler is stricter than the others
14:35:41	mcuelenaere	I get warnings that don't appear in the build table for other targets
14:36:44	amiconn	Well, you're using gcc 4.1 for mips... the other targets use 4.0 or 3.4
14:37:31	mcuelenaere	ok, should I fix those warnings in SVN then?
14:39:22	mcuelenaere	does Rockbox defines betoh32() or is that within the GCC package? (and is it a macro?)
14:39:33	mcuelenaere	I get 'common.c:164: warning: suggest parentheses around arithmetic in operand of \|' on it
14:41:31	mcuelenaere	I get the same warnings for common/structec.c
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14:57:36	mcuelenaere	how do other targets handle SD and NAND ATA access? Do they have a separate ata-<target>.c file which handles the ata_read_sectors() and ata_write_sectors() calls or .. ?
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15:04:34	gevaerts	mcuelenaere: yes, although I'm (slowly) working on a patch to make that sd_, nand_,... which are called through storage_* wrappers
15:06:49	Zagor	mcuelenaere: have you tried with the same compiler version as the other targets?
15:07:11	mcuelenaere	yes, and I believe that gave linker errors
15:07:18	Zagor	ok
15:07:19	mcuelenaere	or GCC errors, I'm not sure which
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16:37:11	Tuplanolla	hello
16:38:22	Tuplanolla	why does the context menu close when pressing prev button on e200?
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16:48:58	GodEater	Tuplanolla: what do you expect it to do ?
16:49:24	Tuplanolla	i thought it would move me back in the context menu
16:49:44	Tuplanolla	or is there an another button for that?
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16:50:39	GodEater	you mean when you've descended into submenus off the context menu ?
16:51:03	Tuplanolla	oh sorry, yeah, that's what i meant :)
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17:17:57	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: (for the logs) I'm going to take a stab at building an up to date Sansapatcher for OS X later.
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18:17:02	amiconn	gevaerts: Could you remind me what was the problem with usb test mode on PP?
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18:42:12	yuki	hihi ^^ I came to this channel to introduce myself and I have interested in the sony A800 series port and helping out with this
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18:42:58	LambdaCalculus37	linuxstb: Ping
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18:43:28	linuxstb	LambdaCalculus37: ping
18:44:49	LambdaCalculus37	linuxstb: Going to build a new version of Sansapatcher for OS X. Is the build procedure the same as iPodpatcher or anything specific I have to do?
18:45:29	linuxstb	I think it's the same. Don't forget the version number strings
18:45:55	linuxstb	The main difference is that embedding the bootloaders isn't optional, so no Makefile editing needed to enable it.
18:46:44	LambdaCalculus37	Got it.
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18:47:01	LambdaCalculus37	I'm going to build the bootloaders against the 3.0 trunk.
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19:11:37	woodensoul	Anyone around that uses WinFF? I've got a problem encoding and I need a command line parameter to make it work.
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19:13:45	woodensoul	My source files are 5 channel audio and I think that's tripping it up, so I need to force stereo encoding I think.
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19:17:59	Llorean	woodensoul: You're really asking for help with ffmpeg, so you should be seeking help in WinFF or ffmpeg support areas.
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19:21:11	woodensoul	I'm on that forum right now.
19:21:56	woodensoul	We actually figured this out before, I'm gonna fire up the desktop and see if I have the command line parameter that I used to make it work. Then I should edit the wiki to include the info.
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19:35:14	LambdaCalculus37	linuxstb: main.c:35 in rbutil/sansapatcher has the VERSION #define as "0.6 with v4.0 bootloaders". I build the new c200 and e200 bootloaders against the 3.0 trunk, so should I make it "0.7 with v5.0 bootloaders"?
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19:36:34	gevaerts	amiconn: it doesn't seem to work. I don't know why. However, since the test modes are only used for electrical signal testing I haven't really cared about it after concluding that our issues are most probably not electrical
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19:37:07	linuxstb	LambdaCalculus37: Sounds reasonable.
19:37:09	amiconn	Did you try test mode on the beast, in order to find out whether your code works?
19:37:39	LambdaCalculus37	linuxstb: Okay.
19:38:01	gevaerts	No, I didn't. Unfortunately I don't have easy access to oscilloscopes anymore, and you basically need one to see if it works
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19:38:12	kronflux	hello hello
19:38:32	*	amiconn has a scope, but it's probably not fast enough for that kind of tests
19:38:42	amiconn	Also, I have no idea how to operate test mode
19:41:06	LambdaCalculus37	kronflux: Hello to me and hello to you. :)
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19:42:16	gevaerts	You need a 1GHz scope at least I guess (since you're looking at a 480Mbit signal).
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19:42:31	LambdaCalculus37	kronflux: I banged into another wall now... it seems that the 2nd gen nano had hardware designed by several manufacturers. LCDs designed by Sharp or Toshiba, and NAND chips from Samsung, Hynix, or Toshiba.
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19:43:57	LambdaCalculus37	So I'm figuring that there are different HW revisions a la the Meizu M6.
19:44:28	kronflux	well, knowing those manufacturers would be a start
19:44:29	amiconn	That's not uncommon
19:44:50	kronflux	but getting the info for those specific peices of hardware would be more difficult.
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19:46:19	LambdaCalculus37	kronflux: Indeed. The "donor" nano I got has a Toshiba NAND chip, and for the life of me, I can't figure out the manufacturer of the LCD, so on that case, I may have to travel blindly.
19:46:41	kronflux	eep
19:46:41	*	bertrik is closing in on sansa v2 i2c
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19:48:38	amiconn	LambdaCalculus37: I would expect that the nand chip manufacturer doesn't matter. The LCD module manufacturer shouldn't matter either, as long as the controller chip is the same (or compatible)
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19:49:42	LambdaCalculus37	amiconn: I'll have to check out the controller chip on the nano, then.
19:50:32	amiconn	The controller chip might be difficult or even impossible to find. It's usually a COG mounted directly on the panel
19:50:55	LambdaCalculus37	amiconn: I'm willing to hunt for it.
19:50:55	amiconn	RE will probably be more helpful here.
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19:57:17	Rockboxfest	hi question.... if let the battery on the nano drain completely.. does anyone know how rockbox will behave in a fully drained battery? or how it should be have... in a nano
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19:58:25	Llorean	When it's off, Rockbox isn't running so it's not "behaving"
19:59:00	Rockboxfest	well the light on the charger is on.. but nothing happens
19:59:18	Llorean	You should be able to just leave it charging for a while (whether something shows on screen or not, it's charging) and after a while (give it a day or two) it'll be fine.
19:59:22	Rockboxfest	not the charge light... just the regular light (non oem charger)
19:59:40	Llorean	The Apple firmware (which is what handles charging) behaves poorly when the battery is very low it seems, but if you give it long enough it works things out
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20:01:41	Rockboxfest	I shall try that then .. see what happens... I wasn't sure if rockbox or apple's software took care of the charging
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20:18:07	lee321987	I'm using a Sansa c200 v1. Does Rockbox work with a OF that allows over-2GB MicroSD cards?
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20:19:14	gevaerts	That's a bit of a useless question. Rockbox doesn't "work with the OF", and as far as I know no v1 OF does support SDHC
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20:20:23	lee321987	you answered my question, but I thought that Rockbox wouldn't work with certain OF versions?
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20:21:15	Llorean	lee321987: hardware revision 2 always runs OF v3 (and v3 doesn't run on hardware version 1) so the OF is the easiest way to identify what hardware is inside.
20:21:17	gevaerts	Some OF versions don't support usb mass storage
20:22:12	lee321987	thanks guys
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20:34:38	*	LambdaCalculus37 tests his new Sansapatcher build on his c240
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20:37:17	LambdaCalculus37	Successful test... now to pack it and post it to Flyspray. :)
20:38:29	gevaerts	LambdaCalculus37: does the new bootloader fully work, including various USB/OF reboots?
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20:46:08	*	gevaerts wonders how many people copy their firefox profile to new laptops
20:46:13	*	domonoky sees this job desciption on the mailinglist, and thinks this could be easily done with a little plugin showing a few bmps and playing 24 different wavs and setting the plugin as autostart... :-)
20:47:33	LambdaCalculus37	gevaerts: I'm testing it now.
20:47:56	LambdaCalculus37	At least now the c200 bootloader says "model no. c200".
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20:49:42	LambdaCalculus37	gevaerts: All working.
20:50:18	gevaerts	LambdaCalculus37: great! When I tested it didn't work properly, but after that I noticed that my cable is getting bad
20:54:02	LambdaCalculus37	gevaerts: I should have the OS X version up on Flyspray soon.
20:55:16	LambdaCalculus37	linuxstb: Just to make sure, Sansapatcher also builds as a universal binary for OS X, correct?
20:56:21	v1rtue	how does version 3.0 display when checking versions... mine is currently r18274-080813... is that version 3.0?
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21:00:01	LambdaCalculus37	Version 3.0 will have 3.0 displayed in the version string.
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21:00:35	v1rtue	LambdaCalculus37: Thank you. I suspected such, just wanted confirmation.
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21:19:51	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: A new Sansapatcher version for Mac OS X is up at FS #9369 if you'd like to check it out.
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21:21:41	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: did you build new bootloaders, and did you set the version string etc?
21:22:13	n1s	(sansapatcher includes bootloaders just like ipodpatcher, right?)
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21:22:20	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: Yes; new bootloaders are from the 3.0 trunk, and I set the string.
21:22:43	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: And yes, Sansapatcher includes the bootloaders like iPodpatcher.
21:23:05	LambdaCalculus37	Build the bootloaders for the c200 and e200, and put them in the same folder as Sansapatcher.
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21:23:26	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: which version string did you use?
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21:24:20	domonoky1	for rbutil we need those new bootloaders on the download server...
21:24:39	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: "Sansapatcher 0.7 with v5.0 bootloaders" at linuxstb's suggestion.
21:25:11	LambdaCalculus37	domonoky1: Bagder already put several of them up on the servers, according to a comment he left on the page for FS #9369.
21:25:51	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: afaik he posted only ipod and gigabeat bootloaders
21:27:32	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: modification dates on the download server agrees, no new sansa bootloaders are up, I will build them and post them, which rev of the branch did you use?
21:27:32	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: Guess we'll have to bug him about the others. ;)
21:27:41	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: 3.0
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21:29:45	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: well, we need people to tes them...
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21:31:43	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: amiconn has chaecked in some changes that could potentially affect bootloaders so i would like to have sansa bootloaders included in the different sansapatcher builds to be of the same rev in the branch
21:32:14	amiconn	Which changes are you referring to?
21:32:31	n1s	amiconn: the size reductions a couple of weeks ago
21:32:54	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: also did you set the version string in the bootloader when building it to "5.0" ?
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21:35:42	*	amiconn would rather include those size reductions in new bootloaders
21:37:42	n1s	amiconn: yes, that's my plan but i also want sansapatcher on macos to include the same bootloader as sansapatcher on windows/linux...
21:37:56	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: Which revision was amiconn's size reductions added in? I could rebuild using the current SVN table.
21:38:40	*	LambdaCalculus37 will have to wait till he gets home to make the new builds, though
21:38:45	amiconn	There are several. The latest one (a tiny one only affecting recording targets) went in 4 days ago
21:39:30	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: I don't remember the exact rev number, I could build new bootloaders and you could just rebuild sansapatcher if you like?
21:40:02	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: Sure.
21:40:23	n1s	ok, I'll do that and post them in the tracker
21:41:21		Quit karashata ("I go, only to return again some time...")
21:41:45	amiconn	The big ones were r18585 (no bidi) and r18638 (no idle notification, sysfont limited to ascii, no font caching, removed superfluous error message)
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21:44:02	*	LambdaCalculus37 should probably just pull the Sansapatcher.dmg he posted to FS for now
21:44:17	amiconn	The small one (no extra shutdown delay in bootloader on recording targets) was r18781
21:45:28	amiconn	I think that the set of bootloaders should be built once, on one machine, and then embedded into the various patchers. This way identical bootloaders are guaranteed
21:47:33	*	gevaerts agrees
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21:47:38	SamuraiDio	hi
21:47:48	SamuraiDio	where can i find some screenshots?
21:48:17	markun	there a lot in the manual
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21:48:32	markun	and you can also check out the various themes that people made in our wiki
21:48:51	markun	SamuraiDio: which player do you have?
21:53:03	SamuraiDio	i have Shuffle 1st gen, can't use RockBox... but i'm planning to buy a new gadget
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21:56:06	markun	SamuraiDio: we made this page: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuyersGuide
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21:56:20	markun	but there are a few more ports under construction
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21:56:59	SamuraiDio	thanks
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21:58:25	DGMurdockIII	i fond somthing that can help the creative zen vision M port
21:59:01	SamuraiDio	can someone suggest a good and small gadget suitable for Linux user?
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22:00:16		Quit XavierGr ()
22:01:04	gevaerts	SamuraiDio: for rockbox use, any supported player will work equally well with linux
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22:02:18	DGMurdockIII	http://www.killingmoon.com/director/lingofish/
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22:03:40	DGMurdockIII	http://www.schneier.com/blowfish.html
22:04:08	SamuraiDio	thanks all
22:04:34	Bagder	DGMurdockIII: how do they help ?
22:07:37	markun	SamuraiDio: maybe this one: http://www.froobi.com/SanDisk-Sansa-e250-2GB-MP3-Media-Player-w-MicroSD-Expansion-FMVoice-Recorder-Factory-Recertified-Rockbox-Ready_p_78-32284.html
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22:17:27	SamuraiDio	cool
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22:26:12	markun	SamuraiDio: there are also newer versions of the e200 series, but they don't work with rockbox yet
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22:38:17	Noah1989	hi@all
22:38:47	*	bertrik waves
22:38:49	Noah1989	as one ever teken a look at the iriver E100?
22:38:53	Noah1989	i have such a device
22:39:21	Noah1989	but i'm slightly unsatisfied with the firmware
22:39:30	Bagder	nope, it doesn't seem to be much effort on any e100
22:39:48	Bagder	http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=19000.0
22:40:05	bertrik	if there was, I think it was mentioned on the TargetStatus wiki page
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22:40:33	Bagder	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverE100Internals has terribly crappy scans and some initial info on the hw
22:41:31	massiveH	what the heck scanned that?
22:41:46	massiveH	looks like something from Hubble telescope...
22:41:53	Bagder	maybe it was before the first coffe of that day ;-)
22:42:22	Noah1989	i could provide some better scans
22:42:30	massiveH	that would be very helpful
22:42:40	massiveH	as you can't make out half the things on those boards...
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22:56:41	Noah1989	argh, i lost a screw!
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22:59:16	Noah1989	yay i got it opened
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23:01:41	syn4pse	i can't seem to duplicate this crash i'm getting on my ipod in the simulator.
23:02:02	syn4pse	(for my plugin)
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23:15:59	Noah1989	i found a datasheet for one chip in the e100
23:16:07	Noah1989	it's the ram
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23:20:29	Noah1989	but what's probably tha CPU chip only says "iriver2135"
23:20:40		Quit colesterol_dog ("ooo")
23:20:51	Noah1989	and under it H5066FA 15N
23:20:56	Noah1989	not very useful
23:21:03	Bagder	I would guess that's the main cpu
23:21:19	Bagder	and I would also guess it is a samsung one
23:21:52	Noah1989	we could just try to run some code on it, couldn't we?
23:21:59	Bagder	how?
23:22:36		Quit meven (Remote closed the connection)
23:23:17	Noah1989	well.. how do you put firmware on other irivers?
23:23:34	Bagder	figure out the file format, put our own file there to "upgrade"
23:23:57	Bagder	but it would also need to know things about the lcd, the buttons etc to be able to do something
23:24:18	Noah1989	one could analyze the original firmware
23:24:25	Bagder	see http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort
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23:25:47	*	n1s posted new sansa e200 and c200 bootloaders and linux sansapatchers in FS #9369 and hopes people will test
23:26:27		Quit hannesd ("Client suicide")
23:26:43	n1s	I am not sure how to handle e200r, how do you install the bootloader on it? e200rpatcher seems to not do that...
23:27:17	massiveH	n1s, I would love to try out the new bootloader, if only FedEx would deliver it to me
23:28:07	n1s	massiveH: no need to FedEx the bootloader, you can download it ;)
23:28:19	massiveH	har de har har
23:29:29	massiveH	I think they lost the package though, so testing will be slightly harder now...
23:30:57		Join BeChris [0] (n=51fbed92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-30f73f6a9062f897)
23:31:11	BeChris	Hello everybody
23:32:25	Noah1989	wtf, iriver.com is not available?
23:32:42		Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
23:33:03	Noah1989	now it works..
23:33:16	BeChris	Anyone interrested in helping to port a PNG decoder to rockbox ?
23:34:20	bluebrother	I noticed that png decoder patch on the tracker the other day ... buy why is it in the core?
23:35:16	BeChris	my goal is to use it for album artworks taken directly from music files when played
23:35:43	BeChris	and later maybe merge it with jpegviewer plugin
23:35:53	massiveH	most people use jpg for coverart...
23:36:26	bluebrother	if you want it to get a chance of getting included it should be a plugin, not something in the core
23:36:37		Quit pondlife (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:36:41		Quit lasser ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Iceweasel 3.0.3/2008092816]")
23:37:02	bluebrother	right now there even isn't jpeg decoding in the core, and until that has been agreed upon png is not likely to get accepted in the core at all
23:37:45	BeChris	Do you mean we shall before include a jpeg decoder in the core
23:37:58	BeChris	and when done do the same for a png one ?
23:38:47	bluebrother	well, first there needs to be a decision about having a jpeg decoder in the core.
23:39:10	gevaerts	BeChris: the core is very RAM-sensitive, so to add something there you'll need to do a lot of convincing
23:39:12	bluebrother	so if you want to work on a png decoder for Rockbox you should do this as a plugin, at least as of now
23:39:16		Part DGMurdockIII
23:39:32	BeChris	ok
23:39:44		Quit SamuraiDio ("There's no place like 127.0.0.1")
23:40:04	BeChris	but as I mention in FS #9493 as was seeking for help from talented coders
23:40:20	bluebrother	define "talented coder" ;-)
23:40:26	gevaerts	And jpg seems to be a lot more common for album art, so all other things being equal it has a much better chance to go in
23:40:42		Quit BigBambi (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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23:43:46	BeChris	I'm convinced that the core is RAM sensitive but it would be cool to have displayed embedded artwork from whithin played files
23:44:56	bluebrother	while this is true we don't have embedded album art right now at all.
23:45:06	bluebrother	so just take one step after the other
23:45:44	bluebrother	It would be cool if Rockbox could make good coffee too ;-)
23:47:10	BeChris	I agree but if I'm not sure about the acceptance of a jpeg decoder in the core, why bother working on the artwork extraction part ?
23:49:47		Join perrikwp [0] (i=98214fce@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-97c2f17a0af00baf)
23:50:11	bluebrother	well, I would make a png decoder a viewer plugin −− as the jpeg viewer currently is
23:51:25		Quit massiveH ("Leaving")
23:52:02		Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
23:52:57	BeChris	For the moment I don't mind having a png decoder as a plugin
23:53:03	BeChris	my goal was to:
23:53:23	BeChris	1)include a new decoder (png or jpeg) in the core
23:53:52	BeChris	2)add the extraction of album artwork from music files
23:54:10	bluebrother	well, so what is your goal? Getting embedded album art to work or a png decoder?
23:54:19	BeChris	3)decode extracted "stream" with decoder mentioned in 1)
23:54:31	BeChris	both :)
23:54:58	bluebrother	both at the same time won't work. And you need to convince quite some people for both of those
23:55:30	gevaerts	BeChris: do you have an idea about the RAM cost of your current patch?
23:55:39	pixelma	maybe you can already work on the (2) and make it a viewer plugin you could use on your music files - and think about a nice solution for (1) with as little footprint as possible so people who don't use it are not much affected (maybe "image" codecs like for music)
23:56:14	pixelma	like audio codecs I meant...
23:56:21		Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
23:56:32	bluebrother	well, first of all (if png is wanted) a decoder is needed. This should be done as plugin imo.
23:56:44		Join Nibbl [0] (n=Nibbler@e181122062.adsl.alicedsl.de)
23:57:03	bluebrother	afterwards (if there has been a decision if we want other formats than bmp in the core) the embedded album art extraction can be done
23:57:35	*	Llorean thinks the order needs to be 1) Demonstrate jpeg in the core with as minimal impact as possible, 2) Demonstrate embedded jpeg album art and its costs, 3) Figure out a way to add png so that it's not added on top of jpeg in the core, but so that memory is only used for one of them at a time.
23:57:37	pixelma	sure, as I understood BeChris, the one in the tracker is already quite nice for him - my interpretation though
23:57:49	gevaerts	At least image plugins would limit the amount of needed RAM if there are many of them. It makes it harder (or impossible?) to allow normal plugins to use them though
23:58:52		Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
23:59:00	BeChris	if jpef is the most common format for album artwork

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