#rockbox 2008-10-24

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#rockbox log for 2008-10-24

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00:22:37	e200	It ways on the homepage something about the e200v2 and a time does that mean it will support the e200v2 by that time?
00:23:27		Quit e200 (Client Quit)
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00:24:13	webguest85	It says on the homepage something about the sansa e200v2 and a time does that mean rockbox will work on the e200v2 by that time?
00:24:22		Quit hannesd (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:24:34	webguest85	hello anyone there?
00:24:51	webguest85	Hello
00:24:55		Quit webguest85 (Client Quit)
00:27:22	robin0800	no! it just means the wiki has been updated read the entry
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00:29:26	webguest05	Does anyone know if the thing on the homepage means rockbox will be released on the e200v2?
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00:41:18	webguest07	hello?
00:42:10	bluebrother	hello
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00:42:32	newnick	hello?
00:42:35	bluebrother	if you stay for like 1 minute only every time you're around, you really expect an answer?
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00:43:05	bluebrother	people do other things the same time and don't pay 100% attention to this channel all the time
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00:44:14	bluebrother	have you finished deciding your nick?
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00:44:30		Nick anything is now known as e200v3 (n=1824bd5b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-fec2d2ca4cb20cf7)
00:44:53	e200v3	I not really
00:45:09	bluebrother	stop this nonsense. Now.
00:45:14	e200v3	I got an error with those nicknames sorry
00:45:56	e200v3	It says something on the homepage about the sansa e200v2 and a time does that mean rockbox will work on the v2 at that time?
00:46:15	bluebrother	what time? We don't estimate timeframes.
00:46:34		Quit webguest07 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:46:42	e200v3	there's a graph it says when what and something else
00:46:43		Quit shotofadds (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:46:47	bluebrother	the front page has various logs. This has nothing to do with releases
00:46:53	e200v3	oh
00:46:56	bluebrother	the front page has several tables but no graphs.
00:47:01	e200v3	so it isn't released for the v2?
00:47:11	e200v3	yeah tables that's what I ment
00:47:28	bluebrother	table != graph ...
00:47:38	e200v3	well I don't know
00:47:56	bluebrother	please scroll a bit up. To the topmost box. Read the line starting with "Sandisk".
00:48:12	e200v3	I know it says it doesn't
00:48:13	bluebrother	especially the part in parenthenses
00:48:19	e200v3	yeah
00:48:20	bluebrother	so why are you asking?
00:48:20	e200v3	...
00:48:33	e200v3	because it says something about it later
00:48:36	e200v3	and a time
00:48:49	e200v3	and I though it ment it would work on the v2 by that time
00:48:55	e200v3	thought*
00:49:00	bluebrother	and IF you did follow the link to the wiki (which seems to be what you're referring to) you'd have found yourself what the current status is as that is on top of that wiki page
00:49:10	bluebrother	and it reads: Rockbox does NOT run on the v2 players.
00:49:12	e200v3	so what was the time for then?
00:49:23	e200v3	it said something like 19:53
00:49:34	bluebrother	and what's on top of that list?
00:49:38	e200v3	under the "when" part of the table
00:49:42	pixelma	if you actually follow the link you are referring to you can read more about the status - the time is just the time that particular wiki page was last changed (the table has a header...)
00:49:54	bluebrother	there are four tables with "when" parts.
00:50:11	bluebrother	pixelma: don't make it too easy ...
00:50:22	e200v3	I'm refering to the one that has sansa e200v2 under what
00:50:29	e200v3	?
00:50:33	bluebrother	so what? Be exact.
00:50:37	e200v3	What do you mean don't make it to easy?
00:50:44	bluebrother	plus, I asked you what's on top of that table written.
00:50:54	bluebrother	I wasn't talking to you but pixelma
00:51:10	e200v3	It seems like he's trying to help me
00:51:27	*	bluebrother giggles
00:51:33	e200v3	It said when In one colum what in the other one and there was another one that I don't remember what it said
00:51:41	e200v3	giggles?
00:51:54	bluebrother	so you are unable looking at that page again?
00:52:00	e200v3	pretty much
00:52:07	petur	e200v3: I think the point has been made, now stop filling our logfiles with this nonsense
00:52:22	bluebrother	Man, what's your problem? The top says "Recent activity", and on the table you're referring to it says "wiki".
00:52:22	e200v3	well I still don't have an answer
00:52:28	e200v3	yeah
00:52:31	e200v3	It does
00:52:38	e200v3	so what is the time beside it for?
00:52:44	e200v3	or is it not a time
00:52:44	petur	who cares
00:52:49	e200v3	I do
00:52:59	bluebrother	if you don't understand what this means ... well, I guess you aren't one of the people who will like Rockbox anyway.
00:53:16	e200v3	Isn't that the point a simpler firmware?
00:53:21	bluebrother	no
00:53:24	e200v3	One with games?
00:53:33	petur	e200v3: stop trolling. warning 1
00:53:37	bluebrother	I really suggest reading the website. It has a link "Why"
00:53:42	e200v3	Fuck you
00:53:55	petur	please don't do that
00:55:16	pixelma	maybe a cause of confusion but the "today 19:something" is past - in the time zone of the servers. It's not something that'll happen in the future. And I already told what the time is for
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01:00:49	ameyer	did someone kill his cgi:irc session or did he just leave?
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01:05:58	petur	just bad luck I think (or maybe he closed the browser)
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01:09:56	ameyer	to answer his question, if he happens to google and find the log, the timestamp means that the code described in the changelog was committed to SVN at the time it says
01:10:06	*	ameyer wonders what time zone. GMT?
01:11:32	petur	yup
01:11:50	linuxstb	Some timestamps seem to be GMT, some are CET
01:12:23	linuxstb	(possibly with daylight savings adjustment...)
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01:23:41	linuxstb	Nico_P: Still awake?
01:26:44	Nico_P	yes
01:26:51	Nico_P	not for long though
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01:28:50	linuxstb	I was just wondering if there is always some free RAM in the audio buffer when get_metadata() is called for a track.
01:29:19	Nico_P	well, there is enough RAM to store the metadata
01:29:33		Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
01:29:57	Nico_P	the space where it's stored is already allocated
01:30:55	linuxstb	What about the case where track #1 is bigger than the buffer, and the metadata is read for track #2 (I'm assuming it is...)
01:32:18	Nico_P	then the bufopen call for the metadata will fail
01:32:34	Nico_P	it'll go in a static buffer (lasttrack_id3)
01:33:14	Nico_P	(playback.c:1680)
01:34:28	linuxstb	Why is it called lasttrack, and not nexttrack?
01:35:32	Nico_P	because it's the metadata for the last track
01:36:06	Nico_P	well, it's actually the track after the last one that is buffered
01:36:21	Nico_P	I couldn't come up with a better name at the time
01:38:29	linuxstb	Is it always the track after "curtrack"? i.e. prevtrack, curtrack, lasttrack are three consecutive tracks?
01:39:00	linuxstb	Ah no, it's the "last buffered", rather than always the one after the current track?
01:39:31		Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
01:39:50	Nico_P	yes
01:40:05	linuxstb	OK, I understand, thanks. Time to sleep now...
01:40:09	Nico_P	to be more precise, it's the first one that has no audio data buffered
01:40:44	*	Nico_P should also go to bed
01:41:22	Nico_P	good night ;)
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04:02:58	Roseweave	Hey guys :)
04:03:03	Roseweave	Anyone active?
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04:04:11	Roseweave	Hey
04:05:24	advcomp2019	Roseweave, yes
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04:24:50	Roseweave	Hello
04:27:08	advcomp2019	Roseweave, hello
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04:33:03	advcomp2019	Roseweave, you needed something?
04:33:05	Roseweave	Hello :)
04:33:21	Roseweave	I just wanted to ask how the FUZE support was coming along, it doesn't get mentioned much on the forums.
04:33:46	Roseweave	I heard that there might never be rockbox for Fuze due to some difficulty :(
04:34:15	advcomp2019	i will say very little.. there is a wiki page about the v2 ports too
04:34:48	Roseweave	Very little difficulty or very litle support?
04:34:55	Roseweave	the v2 ports doesn't mention the FUZE specifically
04:35:15	Roseweave	Do you know if the Fuze has a slightly more powerful CPU than the older Sandisks?
04:35:40	advcomp2019	but the fuze is a part of the v2 port
04:35:57	Roseweave	Hm
04:36:08	Roseweave	Does the v2 firmware work on Fuze then?
04:36:11	Roseweave	I'm confused
04:36:25	Roseweave	When it's ready, do I just flash the v2 firmware?
04:37:21	advcomp2019	i know there is more people working on the clipv1 and e200v2.. there is only a few people with the fuze right now
04:37:37	Roseweave	Aw that's a shame :(
04:37:47	Roseweave	From you experience how long do you think it will take?
04:37:55	Roseweave	It would be nice if there was some breakthrough and it was done for christmas )
04:37:57	Roseweave	:)
04:39:17	Unhelpful	it's generally not possible to give estimates, unfortunately
04:39:31	Roseweave	Is there anything else cool I can do with my Fuze in the meantime I wonder
04:40:00	Roseweave	Has anyone found the specifications with regards to the older model? Like, in terms of how much better the CPU performs than another model, if at all.
04:40:28	advcomp2019	you might want to read this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaV2
04:42:20	Roseweave	Hmm I'm kind of worried about bricking it now :(
04:42:37	Roseweave	By "faulty code" does it mena an improper firmware, ori f I'm running some emulator and it crashes?
04:43:15	advcomp2019	here is another page with the status of the v2s: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TargetStatus
04:43:34	Roseweave	Thank you :)
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04:45:02	Roseweave	I guess I'm not in much of a hurry then, if there's a chance it'll render it useless I might as well get a good few months life out of it
04:45:04	Roseweave	To be sure
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04:47:35	Roseweave	I'll get my DS repaired instead for now
04:47:48	Roseweave	I think you do great work with Rockbox though
04:47:52	Roseweave	I was very impressed reading through the thread
04:48:01	Roseweave	People picking stuff up tearing it apart and researching it
04:49:01	Roseweave	That kind of thing doesn't happen as much as it used to anymore, I think. Emulator devs especially have waned quite a lot. I think there's a generally more every man for himself you're not entitled to anything kind of attitude, so it's nice to see people working together again.
04:52:14	advcomp2019	please try not to fill the logs up since people read the logs
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06:33:41	stevenm	Hello. Does anyone know how much current an h340 draws thru the DC IN port?
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06:45:13	saratoga	stevenm: theres a wiki page with that info but i forget the name
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07:56:34	mconty	question −− why doesn't rockbox recognize my 160gb classic? or is this classic different internally than earlier, smaller ones?
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07:59:34	scorche\|sh	mconty: we dont support the classic..
07:59:42	mconty	oh
07:59:54	mconty	i thought i saw it in the list ... musta been dreaming.
08:00
08:00:00	mconty	or maybe just wishing real hard...
08:00:18	mconty	what're the chances that you might some day support it?
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08:03:34	scorche\|sh	mconty: it is in the list...as something we dont support
08:03:42	mconty	oh
08:03:49	scorche\|sh	being that no one is currently working on it, slim
08:04:01	mconty	ok, thanks for setting me straight on that
08:04:17	mconty	saw it on a friend's nano, and it looked real slick
08:04:30	mconty	heard your interview a week or so ago on FLOSS Weekly...
08:06:00	mconty	anywho, thanks again..
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08:45:02	adamgolding	hey guys.. still wondering if amarok2 will allow me to scrobbled MBIDs from my ipod.. has this been logged as a feature request?
08:49:07	*	JdGordon checks the channel...
08:49:12	JdGordon	nope this isnt #amarok
08:49:33	adamgolding	oops, wrong channel, lol
08:49:36	adamgolding	sorry
08:50:25	adamgolding	although while i'm here, i'm wondering the same thing about rockbox
08:50:38	Unhelpful	MBIDs?
08:50:39	adamgolding	as far as i can tell, none of the scrobbling solutions scrobble MBIDs
08:50:47	adamgolding	Music Brainz IDs
08:51:04	cool_walking_	http://www.audioscrobbler.net/wiki/Portable_Player_Logging says .scrobbler.log can optionally include it.
08:51:47	adamgolding	they're especially good for scrobbling classical music, since there's no consensus who goes in the artist field, and the tags themselves often do not uniquely identify a track
08:52:27	Unhelpful	the picard tag mapping is pretty clear on how to extract MBIDs for each metadata type
08:52:50	Unhelpful	and picard is from musicbrainz, so it can probably be safely considered authoritative for MB tags?
08:53:21	adamgolding	Unhelpful hmm? i was under the impressiont hat each track has an MBID, not each metadata type
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08:53:41	adamgolding	Unhelpful yes.. the scrobbler would just need to read the MBID tag from the file and submit it to last.fm verbatim
08:54:07	Unhelpful	adamgolding: you need to follow the tag mapping to know which tag to read. it's different for each metadata type
08:54:34	adamgolding	sorry, i don't follow, from my understanding, there is a single tag which stores the MBID
08:55:37	Unhelpful	adamgolding: there is no such thing as an "MBID" tag defined for pretty much any metadata format, by anybody besides MB.
08:55:56	Unhelpful	MB says what the name of the tag is.
08:56:28	adamgolding	Unhelpful oh, by "metadata type" i thought you meant like "Artist" "Track" and other field names
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08:56:39	adamgolding	yes, the tag is specified by MB and mb alone
08:56:54	adamgolding	but as far as i understand, it is a single tag for each file
08:57:49	Unhelpful	somebody with better knowledge of metadata handling would have to say if extracting it would be easy to add... i'd expect so, you could always dig in the source and submit a patch
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08:59:52	adamgolding	unfortunately my coding skillz are still rather limited :-)
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09:05:35	JdGordon	I think rockbox reads the mbid tag?
09:06:59	JdGordon	yep, its read (and scrobbled) for mp3, mp4 and asf containers...
09:07:26	adamgolding	oh, it scrobbles the MBID?
09:07:36	adamgolding	nice.. whcih scrobbling methjod? i remember there were several..
09:08:01	cool_walking_	Rockbox writes a .scrobbler.log file, which is read and uploaded by a separate PC program.
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09:08:19	JdGordon	scrobbler version 1.1 apparently
09:08:40	cool_walking_	http://rockbox.org/wiki/LastFMLog
09:09:22	cool_walking_	JdGordon: I think the log file is the same either way, it's the PC app that has to handle 1.1/1.2.
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09:11:31	cool_walking_	oh.. there's a separate version number for the log file format and the upload protocol.
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09:15:31	adamgolding	yeah JdGordon where'd you get the info/idea that it submits MBIds fromt hsi chart?
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09:21:11	JdGordon	adamgolding: I searched the code...
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09:21:32	cool_walking_	Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place or not understanding, but from apps/scrobbler.c I don't think Rockbox is logging the MBID.
09:21:52	Unhelpful	my .scrobbler.log agrees w/ that - all my tracks are tagged w/ picard
09:22:14	adamgolding	Unhelpful agrees with JdGordon or cool_walking_ ?
09:22:29	Unhelpful	w/ cool_walking_.
09:22:41	Unhelpful	...the person who spoke right before me?
09:24:32	JdGordon	.mp3 ?
09:24:50	adamgolding	Unhelpful how did you determinet that from your log, just that the MBIDs are not present in the log anywhere?
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09:25:03	JdGordon	is the tag named "http://musicbrainz.org" (without quotes)?
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09:25:24	Unhelpful	adamgolding: yes, but perhaps the code has changed since those log entries were written
09:25:27	JdGordon	"musicbrainz track id" for mp4
09:25:39	Unhelpful	scrobbler.c certainly seems to be logging them...
09:25:40	JdGordon	"MusicBrainz/Track Id" for asf
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09:26:34	linuxstb	It appears to be a relatively new feature - http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=18732
09:26:47	Unhelpful	JdGordon: it's a UFID tag on mp3
09:27:08	Unhelpful	silly structured tag data format :/
09:27:12	JdGordon	that would be why then
09:27:29	adamgolding	linuxstb that is assuming scrobbler 1.1 version logs include MBIDS?
09:27:34	cool_walking_	Ah.. my working copy is out of date.
09:27:52	JdGordon	oh no... UFID is correct
09:27:55	linuxstb	adamgolding: ?
09:28:05	JdGordon	Unhelpful: whats the full text of the tag?
09:29:09	adamgolding	linuxstb your link shows the new feature of supporting scrobbler 1.1 version logs. how do we conclude from that that MBID tags are stored in the log?
09:29:09	linuxstb	adamgolding: a) From reading the actual patch; b) From the FS task it links to
09:29:09	Unhelpful	adamgolding: i'm reading the source. it writes the tag to the log.
09:29:39	adamgolding	oh, and cool_walking_ was just out of date
09:29:57	adamgolding	so the remaining question regards the uploader programs
09:31:15	Unhelpful	why the heck is google failing me :/
09:31:42	adamgolding	we knew google wouldl turn on its master one day :-)
09:34:10	Unhelpful	JdGordon: UFID tags have the frame ID 'UFID'. the frame contents give an ID owner, the 'http://musicbrainz.org' you were looking for, a single NULL byte, and the rest of the tag is the ID
09:34:27	ameyer	Unhelpful: because google results aren't what they used to be
09:34:45	Unhelpful	ameyer: also because i typo'd 'id3v2'
09:34:48	*	ameyer isn't sure whether to blame the SEOtards or google
09:34:53	ameyer	Unhelpful: that too
09:37:26	ameyer	Unhelpful: although google tends to be way too forgiving when you make a typo
09:40:21	Unhelpful	JdGordon: looking at the metadata parsing now...
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09:46:35	*	Unhelpful wonders why MB chooses to tag these as text... id3v2.4 spec seems to say UFID tags are binary data, and certainly 16 bytes of binary would save space vs 37 bytes of text...
09:52:11	Unhelpful	ok, i can confirm that my build from a few days ago is logging MBIDs, or trying to. something isn't right.
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09:53:45	adamgolding	Unhelpful there's a #musicbrainz channel btw, they might know about that encoding stuff
09:54:39	Unhelpful	here's what rockbox logs as the ID: e8b2d965-e2bc-MusicBrainz Album Release Country
09:57:26	Unhelpful	that seems to happen to all of the MBIDs that it's logged for my MP3 files, so somehow the MBID data is getting overwritten in memory by other tags - there's a TXXX tag with the desc field as 'MusicBrainz Album Release Country', but i have no idea how that data is landing in the buffer for the MBID
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09:57:51	adamgolding	the only info i have to offer is the spec here:
09:57:51	adamgolding	http://www.audioscrobbler.net/wiki/Protocol1.1
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10:05:46	Unhelpful	adamgolding: that's not really relevant to what i'm describing
10:05:56	adamgolding	ok, i wasn't sure
10:13:03	linuxstb	Unhelpful: Have you confirmed your tags are correct in the file? If so, then maybe the id3 parser in Rockbox needs to add the terminating zero?
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10:14:21	linuxstb	Ah no, it's not the terminating zero...
10:14:48	Unhelpful	linuxstb: yes, they're correct in the file, eyeD3 and picard both read them correctly, and use different code to do so. it's not merely running off the end of the string, the string is being overwritten. the first 14 bytes are from the MBID, the rest is the desc tag from that TXXX frame
10:16:04	Unhelpful	confirmed it works fine with vorbis.
10:16:14	Unhelpful	don't have anything else handy, and can't spend any more time on it now.
10:18:18	*	n1s suggests filing a bug report
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10:27:15	Unhelpful	when i'm less busy catching up on neglected work, gladly. ;)
10:30:13	linuxstb	This field should probably also be added to the browse_id3() screen as well...
10:38:14	pixelma	speeking of which
10:38:44	pixelma	speaking too
10:38:59	linuxstb	Indeed...
10:39:59	linuxstb	pixelma: So are you against the change to the ID3 screen?
10:41:41	pixelma	I don't have a very strong opinion but I'm not sure if the (code) complication is worth it. Also because the screen will change dynamically now, something that's at least controversary
10:43:10	pixelma	in all, I'm against it, slightly
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11:07:49	*	n1s doesn't comment on the ml as that screen is among the many parts of rockbox he doesn't use
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11:49:08	linuxstb	n1s: Have you thought about adding keymaps for other targets to calendar.c?
11:50:22	n1s	linuxstb: yes, the same guy posted a patch in FS #9224 that adds support for all rtc targets but it's out of sync
11:51:27	n1s	I looked into syncing it but there were some inconsistencies with the later patch so i'd rather he'd do it
11:51:31	*	linuxstb catches up with his emails...
11:52:09	linuxstb	Is the other calendar plugin still an open task?
11:52:46	*	linuxstb sees that it is
11:52:54	linuxstb	(FS #4760)
11:56:46	n1s	It's only real feature that the calendar we have now wouldn't match with a few small improvements is the multi line keyboard thingy
11:58:31	n1s	i wonder how hard it would be to let our on screen keyboard edit over multiple lines
11:59:10	*	n1s would actually use the calendar if it would support ical
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12:08:12	linuxstb	That's one thing I would quite like on the Rockbox keyboard - navigation keys. I can never remember the buttons to use...
12:08:25	amiconn	?
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12:10:15	linuxstb	amiconn: What are you questioning?
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12:27:07	n1s	is there any way for a function to know how much stack is free?
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12:28:47	mitchelwebguest6	hello?
12:28:57	Tuplanolla	hello
12:29:59	mitchelwebguest6	I have installed rockbox with voice on the sansa e280. it works but how do I get music on it?
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12:30:44	n1s	mitchelwebguest6: just copy files to it
12:30:52	Tuplanolla	how? have you tried uploading music to the device (preferably to the MUSIC subdir) and selecting database from the menu? ;)
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12:31:55	n1s	or you could select "Files" from the main menu after copying files to it and just browse to them on the player
12:31:57	mitchelwebguest6	the player is now in msc mode. how can I change this?
12:32:17	n1s	mitchelwebguest6: why would you want to change that?
12:32:42	Nico_P	n1s: there's a percentage value in a debugging screen
12:32:49	Nico_P	"view thread stacks" IIRC
12:33:34	n1s	Nico_P: yes, but i was thinking of a way to figure out how much stack i can allocate without overflowing
12:33:44	n1s	i mean in a dynamic alloc
12:34:24	*	n1s thinks the sim lies about stack usage though :)
12:35:20	linuxstb	n1s: What are you looking at, Tremor?
12:36:35	n1s	linuxstb: yes, just playing around with it a bit, some allocs are pretty small and could go on the stack but it would be nice to not risk overflowing...
12:36:55	linuxstb	Couldn't they instead use (share) a fixed buffer?
12:37:17	linuxstb	I guess the problem is that the stack is iram...
12:37:47	*	linuxstb assumes no recursion...
12:38:20	n1s	i haven't looked at it very much but the one i tried now was allocating 256 bytes most of the time
12:38:55	linuxstb	"most" ? Were the others smaller or larger?
12:39:29	n1s	a few smaller, i haven't investigated that much really :)
12:39:40	n1s	no larger for my test files though
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12:40:42	linuxstb	Maybe we could introduce some hard limits for these alloca calls, and then see if people complain...
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12:55:57	n1s	stack usage increased from 19% to 21% with that small change so i guess we have a bit of headroom but i'm not comfortable doing stuff like this if i don't know the max values it will get...
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13:05:46	linuxstb	Can you tell how many bits are used to store the number used to calculate the size of the alloca? I would guess that's probably going to give a very large maximum though...
13:10:34	linuxstb	The floor0.c alloca seems straightforward - there's a comment saying m is between 0 and 255, so a maximum of 1024 bytes.
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14:02:13	n1s	linuxstb: I don't know the code(c) well enough to tell and i'm pretty sure allocating INT_MAX bytes isn't desired :)
14:03:12	linuxstb	I mean trying to trace the code back, to find out where the numbers come from originally.
14:03:20	linuxstb	I don't know the codec at all either...
14:04:15	n1s	That is the problem with tremor, the code is very resistant to reading :/ but yes that is what someone should do
14:05:30	*	linuxstb looks at the ffmpeg vorbis decoder, but sees floats...
14:05:41		Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
14:06:02	n1s	maybe we can use the tremor mdct etc and the rest from ffmpeg?
14:06:50	linuxstb	Yes, someone should try that ;)
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14:42:00	larstobi	Congrats with release 3.0! I used Rockbox on my old Ipod Nano 1. gen, and it rocked! Now I need a new player, but none of the supported models displayed here http://www.rockbox.org/download/ are still in sale. Is there a musicplayer that is both supported by Rockbox and is still in sale?
14:43:02	n1s	larstobi: in short: no
14:43:19	LambdaCalculus37	Not new, anyway.
14:43:22	n1s	used older players should be possible to come by though
14:43:33	LambdaCalculus37	But there's always Froobi with their Sansa e200 sale: http://www.froobi.com/SanDisk-Sansa-e270-6GB-MP3-Media-Player-w-FMVoice-Recorder-Factory-Recertified-Rockbox-Ready_p_0-32282.html
14:43:44	LambdaCalculus37	And those are v1 Sansas, which will work with Rockbox.
14:44:00	linuxstb	Isn't that US only though?
14:44:16	Zagor	but larstobi looks to be in norway, where froobi won't ship
14:44:18	larstobi	I am in Norway, but I may be able to get it shipped here, though
14:44:34	larstobi	I have a proxy address in the U.S.
14:44:54	Zagor	ah, nice
14:45:55	larstobi	I will check out that Sansa, thanks! :-)
14:48:43	larstobi	Wow, Froobi even says: "Factory-Recertified & Rockbox Ready"! Does the Rockbox team have a deal with the Froobi store?
14:51:31	Zagor	nope. but they know what their customers want. :-)
14:52:59	larstobi	nice. :-)
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15:16:07	kugel	Nico_P: Hey, I've read the logs. While you're messing with PF, you could also take a look at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8335 again :)
15:16:26	kugel	Slasheri: ping
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15:52:26	Rayo	hi, how do you start a new port or figure out how to use the different hardware? it's not a mp3 player but a universal remote, the firmware can be extracted but where to start? analyzing the hardware?
15:52:52	linuxstb	Rayo: We have a handy step-by-step guide ;) http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
15:54:06	Rayo	hm and when i don't want to disassemble the hardware?
15:54:06	linuxstb	Generally the first thing is to find out what hardware is inside (CPU and other major chips), and to find out how to run your own code (normally by hijacking any existing firmware upgrade method)
15:58:19	Rayo	und how can i reverse engineering? which tool does support microcontroller code?
15:59:33	linuxstb	It depends what the microcontroller is. Do you know that?
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16:01:14	linuxstb	I would say it's impossible to do this if you don't know what's inside your device - opening it up is compulsory.
16:01:55	Rayo	i think its a pic but i must check it first, i try to open it without any damage :)
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17:02:51	kushal_12_27_200	hi, I have a sansa c250 with rockbox. Lately it takes too long to load the database in the OF
17:04:23	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:05:27	linuxstb	kushal_12_27_200: Here are some ideas - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=16411.0
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17:18:25	kushal_12_27_200	thanks
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17:23:12	linuxstb	Has anyone ever looked at the mikmod plugin, with a view to committing it? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8806
17:24:07	moos	linuxstb: Mr. Someone? ;)
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17:26:46	LambdaCalculus37	linuxstb: I honestly think that the mikmod plugin should be implemented as proper codecs as opposed to a plugin.
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17:28:04	linuxstb	Can it be? e.g. what are the memory requirements?
17:29:07	LambdaCalculus37	http://sourceforge.net/projects/mikmod/ <−− Found its SF page.
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17:37:12	pixelma	linuxstb: I believe preglow had a look at the plugin when it was in earlier stages (shortly after committing the current mod codec, IIRC) at which I remember him being disappointed. But I think that there was quite a bit of development of the plugin since then
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17:38:06	linuxstb	pixelma: Yes, I read his comments in the task, and it looks like most of them have been addressed. But I guess the question is whether we want to commit it as a plugin?
17:38:42	*	linuxstb has zero tracker music, so doesn't care - it just seems to be another of those useful patches rotting on the tracker...
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17:43:07	LambdaCalculus37	linuxstb: Plus it seems to have problems on the Gigabeat. I could try the patch out later to see exactly what those issues are.
17:43:52	n1s	linuxstb: it's also one of the this-should-be-done-in-a-better-but-more-difficult-way (as a codec)
17:44:12	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: I agree.
17:44:13	linuxstb	n1s: Hmm, we've closed those in the past...
17:44:49	moos	n1s: speaking of this, what's about MIDI plugin?
17:44:58	n1s	imho the midi plugin should be a codec too but i'm not motivated to dive in to it
17:45:10	moos	hehe :))
17:45:23	linuxstb	Isn't the problem with midi that it needs a large patchset loaded?
17:45:41	LambdaCalculus37	IIRC yes.
17:47:37	n1s	linuxstb: if i understood Nico_P right it should be possible to put that in the audio buffer as metadata for the track
17:47:55	n1s	so you have a 10kB track with 4MB metadata :)
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17:48:31	linuxstb	But isn't metadata discarded when the track starts playing? I guess that could be changed though. But we also wouldn't want to buffer it multiple times for different midis.
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17:51:22	n1s	linuxstb: i think we would have to with the current buffering system, and imho it's not worth it to add lots of complications to the buffering just for midi...
17:52:57	linuxstb	But don't we still have the general "non-streaming codecss" problem to solve? i.e. giving the codecs the file in a single contiguous block of RAM?
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18:19:13	Nico_P	linuxstb: no, metadata isn't discarded when the track starts playing. the codec is
18:20:24	linuxstb	I thought it was copied into the static buffer?
18:20:46	Nico_P	it is, but what's on the main buffer isn't discarded
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18:21:45	linuxstb	It must be discarded at some point?
18:22:57	Nico_P	when the track is
18:23:44	linuxstb	What if the track is longer than the buffer, or rebuffering starts?
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18:24:34	Nico_P	the metadata is moved to make room
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18:27:53	linuxstb	Why is that, if there's a static buffer?
18:29:45	Nico_P	the metadata might still be needed later on in case of a skip backwards, or similar cases
18:36:26	Nico_P	linuxstb: in some cases it's probably more efficient to just remove the metadata from the audio buffer, but that would likely add some complexity
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18:46:06	*	Nico_P has to go
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18:57:41	MarcGuay	kushal, linuxstb: FYI that stuff about disabling the database refresh is also in the Sansa FAQ.
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19:02:54	Jabone	If i want to try out rockbox on my sansa e200v2 what do I have to do
19:03:27	Jabone	I've downloaded the git repository on my computer but don't know that to do?
19:04:10	domonoky	Jabone: you know that there is not much to try ? (no display or else in rockbox, just booting into the of works)
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19:05:24	Jabone	domonoky: yeah I know but anyway would to try the bootloader :)
19:06:54	domonoky	Jabone: then use the normal build process to create a bootloader.. then give the bootloader and the of to the make in rbutil/mkamsboot/
19:07:25		Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
19:08:06	domonoky	this creates a patched of binary, which can the be put on your player, like a normal of upgrade..
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19:26:43	bertrik	There seems to be e200v2 display code already but I think it doesn't work yet. We should be able to light up the backlight now and perhaps make testing the e200v2 display code a little bit easier.
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19:42:23	kugel	It'd be nice if someone could help identify the lcd controller for the Fuze (maybe it's the same as the e200v2 one?). I have a fuze, but I have too little experience in disassembling, I doubt I'd spot lcd related code in the disassembly
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19:48:14	linuxstb	bertrik: You own a clip?
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19:53:06	funman	speaking of the Clip I have found a strange relation between what I write and then read back from SDRAM
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19:54:02	funman	At offset 0x30000000+4i, I write 0x30000000+4i
19:54:28	funman	and I read (x<<16)\|x , where x = ((i >> 2 /* * 4 = << 2 */) << 4) %(1<<16)
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19:54:57	funman	I'm not sure if this equation has any useful meaning
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19:55:50	funman	if someone owns an e200v2 it'd be worth running my code to see if the same results are meet
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19:59:22	Jabone	funman: I have e260v2
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20:01:13	funman	Jabone: can you check that then ?
20:02:36	bertrik	linuxstb, yes I own a clip
20:03:24	Jabone	funman: I can check if I can have some instruction how to make that
20:03:40	Jabone	haven't done those things before
20:03:49	funman	are you a programmer?
20:04:49	Jabone	somewhat, been doing java for a while
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20:06:55	funman	ok, I think if you want to help on a rockbox port you need to know at least C.
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20:07:26	IudeX	Hi all :)
20:07:51	Jabone	funman: I've been doing c also, not so experienced in it though
20:08:19	funman	Jabone: then you have a good way to get this experience ;)
20:08:25	Jabone	:)
20:08:29	IudeX	funman: I want to ask you something.
20:08:55	*	gevaerts points IudeX towards the channel guidelines
20:09:09	*	bluebrother wonders why IudeX isn't asking then ...
20:09:20	IudeX	sry wait im translating
20:09:22	IudeX	:)
20:09:40	IudeX	Is there any progress in Clip rockboxing?
20:09:53	Jabone	funman: I'll come back in half an hour, I can test your code then.
20:09:54	IudeX	Are*
20:10:10	IudeX	My English isn't very well... :/
20:10:28	funman	IudeX: no, not much. can you help in any way ?
20:10:44	bertrik	yes, the displays works, button readout works, codec communication works, we probably identified the flash controller and the sdram controllers too
20:11:25	funman	well, I'm a bit pessimistic :) there has been some progress but these days it is becoming a bit slower.
20:11:28	IudeX	I can help.
20:11:38	IudeX	funman: But in what?
20:11:41	funman	bertrik: how far did you get on I2C support ?
20:12:10	funman	IudeX: reverse engineering the SanDisk firmware to understand what is missing to use SDRAM and SD/NAND
20:12:26	bertrik	funman, it works, I can read and write, there's a patch up at FS #9503
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20:13:27	IudeX	funman:So ok. I'll think about it
20:13:31	bertrik	it's polled though, and only 1 byte at a time. The OF also does 1 byte at a time but uses interrupts
20:14:32	funman	IudeX: I can give you some pointers on where to look in the OF (Original Firmware) disassembly if you want.
20:15:49	IudeX	funman: on email?
20:17:09	bertrik	domonoky confirmed that codec communication works on his m200 "v2" too
20:17:35	funman	IudeX: or on this channel if you want. I have been disassembling the Clip firmware version 01.01.29
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20:18:05	IudeX	ok
20:18:22	bertrik	IudeX, do you know ARM assembly?
20:18:27	funman	bertrik: good news, now do we need to understand the meaning of each address ? (ex: serial ID at address 0x38)
20:19:07	bertrik	funman, the addresses are all in the datasheet and basically identical to the ones in older as35xx chips
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20:24:42	IudeX	bertrik: not too much
20:25:30	linuxstb	IudeX: Again, this is a great way to learn...
20:26:42	IudeX	lunuxstb: I think so too.
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20:28:55	IudeX	So when we can see a rockboxed sansa v2? (bad English...)
20:29:13	IudeX	Maybe in august?
20:30:07	bluebrother	IudeX: we don't estimate timeframes
20:30:24	bluebrother	doing so will be almost arbitrarily wrong. It's done when its done.
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20:31:24	bertrik	a pretty good guess it about half a year after sandisk stops manufacturing it :P
20:31:47	bluebrother	now estimate when sandisk will stop manufacturing it ;-)
20:32:22	BigBambi	17/01/2009
20:32:28	BigBambi	Are we having a sweepstake?
20:32:47	bluebrother	BigBambi: you sure it isn't 01/17/2009?
20:33:09	BigBambi	bluebrother: I'm sure, I use logical dates :)
20:33:19	BigBambi	2009/01/17 would be better :)
20:34:21	bluebrother	no, then it should be 2009-01-17 :P
20:34:44	*	gevaerts thinks that people who want a proper date shouldn't do that in #rockbox ;)
20:35:04	BigBambi	very true
20:37:57	IudeX	yeap
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20:47:40	IudeX	lot of people but not active there (wow i'm really bad writing...) [Do you understood me?] xDD
20:48:43	IudeX	:) bye all
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20:50:28	funman	bertrik: what's the drawback of using active polling versus interrupts ?
20:50:35	funman	(for I2C communication)
20:52:15	funman	I could use your work to write interrupts support (if it's worth of course)
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21:00:17	amiconn	funman: Wrong interface width and/or bank mux setting
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21:03:52	funman_	amiconn: sorry I don't understand what you mean
21:04:13	amiconn	[19:54:01] <funman> At offset 0x30000000+4i, I write 0x30000000+4i
21:04:13	amiconn	[19:54:28] <funman> and I read (x<<16)\|x , where x = ((i >> 2 /* * 4 = << 2 */) << 4) %(1<<16)
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21:04:47	funman_	ah ok :) I thought you were answering my last question. Thanks
21:05:36	amiconn	I guess this is probably due to the either a wrong interface width (the SoC might be set to 32 bit while the DRAM is actually 16 bit), or a wrong bank mux setting (the point where the address is split in row and column address)
21:05:41	amiconn	Probably both
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21:24:39	bertrik	funman, using interrupts instead of polling makes avoid wasting cpu power in a wait loop
21:24:57	bertrik	we could yield() to reduce that ofcourse
21:25:16	bertrik	I think the portalplayer i2c driver also uses polling instead of interrupts
21:26:02	funman	and how can the core be notified that an interrupt occured: is there a callbacks system in rockbox ?
21:27:58	amiconn	You define an isr
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21:29:01	funman	so the isr has to use an event notification system for each interrupt ?
21:30:26	amiconn	Depends on what needs to be done in response to the interrupt
21:30:52	funman	of course ;) I need to read other i2c code in rockbox
21:31:44	amiconn	I'm not sure that there is an interrupt based i2c driver in rockbox
21:32:00	amiconn	There are many (other) examples for isrs though
21:32:12	funman	TIMER*() for example
21:32:37	bertrik	I think it's not a very big deal now
21:34:48	rasher	Simulator builds of Rockbox 3.0.1: rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator-release/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator-release/
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21:51:57	bertrik	funman, how sure are you about the PL172?
21:52:20	funman	it's mentioned in the as3525 datasheet and the registers fit perfectly
21:52:54	funman	on page 8 : "Related documents"
21:53:21	funman	"The PrimeCell MPMC offers:" on page 28 as well
21:54:22	bertrik	ok
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21:56:44	funman	"the SDRAM column and row width and number of banks are computed automatically from the address mapping" and this address mapping is mentioned in the OF, and matches with the definitions mentioned in the PL172 datasheet (16Mbit for the Clip, 128 for the e200v2)
21:58:04	bertrik	so do you use the exact same memory controller settings as the OF or did you have to make a guess?
21:58:16	funman	for the Clip it is low power SDRAM
21:58:42	funman	I try to use the exact same settings, but due to the way they are written and read to/from the stack I may miss something
21:58:56	funman	I have committed what I had in the git repository if you want to double check
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22:00:10		Quit schNibbler ("Ex-Chat")
22:08:22	funman	sorry it is 64Mbit for the e200v2 (8Mbytes)
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22:13:46		Quit colesterol_dog ("bbl")
22:14:59	Jabone	hi, I've been trying to compile binutils for rockbox and sansa, but in binutils make gives error: *** [cplus-dem.o] error 1
22:16:07	funman	you should paste (on a pastebin) the complete errors before this message
22:16:20	Jabone	ok
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22:29:38		Join DefineByte [0] (n=defineby@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk)
22:31:30	DefineByte	Are there any targets that don't need buttons held down (e.g. to access menus etc.)? I'm looking to create a target with discreet buttons for every action.
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22:33:12	DefineByte	this is regarding the simulator btw.
22:33:15	DefineByte	:)
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22:38:11	domonoky	i dont think we have a target with this much buttons :-)
22:38:44	DefineByte	would it be easy to add them?
22:39:06	DefineByte	by easy I mean, easy for me. >.> :D
22:39:12	DefineByte	so very easy
22:40:43	DefineByte	I'm trying to make a rockbox sim that I can use as a player on PC controlled with a remote.
22:41:25	DefineByte	it doesn't have any press/release events, hence the query.
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22:50:52	domonoky	DefineByte: shouldnt be too hard.. take a look at the keymaps apps/
22:51:01	domonoky	apps/keymaps
22:51:08	DefineByte	:) thanks
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22:52:41	domonoky	of course you have to first define the additional buttons somewhere (firmware/target/..../button-target.h) and map them in the button.c in uisimulator/sdl/button.c to your remote input...
22:55:32		Quit bughunter2 ("bye")
22:56:42		Nick n17ikh\|Lappy is now known as n17ikh (n=n17ikh@130-127-73-84.lightsey.resnet.clemson.edu)
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23:01:27		Quit jhulst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:03:17		Quit stoffel_ ("leaving")
23:03:48	DefineByte	Well, I'm not entirely confident but I'll give it a go. Thanks again. :)
23:04:33	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:06:52	desimmon	hello
23:07:08	desimmon	**"Hello World"
23:07:27	DefineByte	carrier reset by peer
23:08:32		Quit desimmon (Client Quit)
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23:13:27		Quit DefineByte ("Bye all")
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23:22:09	Riddle	Under the wiki it says something about the sansa e200v2 what does that mean?
23:22:57	krazykit	Riddle, why not click the link and find out
23:23:11	Riddle	I did yesterday
23:23:12	domonoky	"something" probably means something...:-)
23:23:27	Riddle	O ok, thanks I think
23:23:32		Quit Riddle (Client Quit)
23:24:02	*	bluebrother wonders if that was the same guy as yesterday not understanding what "Recent activity" means ...
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23:25:18	Riddle	Ok I checked and it said the same thing as yesterday, it doesn't work
23:26:41	funman	Riddle: you should check every 6 months, this is not likely to change soon
23:26:59	Riddle	then why is it under the wiki?
23:27:28	funman	to answer people wondering if it works or not
23:27:31	funman	like you
23:27:39	bluebrother	Riddle: hello e200 ... or e200v2? newnick? wee? e200v3?
23:27:48	Riddle	who?
23:28:16	bluebrother	the answer to your question is the same as yesterday ... it's in the "Recent changes" section. Not announcements, future plans or whatever
23:28:30	Riddle	I didn't ask anything yesterday...
23:28:32	bluebrother	Riddle: you. We can read IP addresses ...
23:28:47	Riddle	Oh well fuck you too
23:28:49		Quit Riddle (Client Quit)
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23:49:55	webguest1	Why is it that when I reset my ipod, the Rockbox firmware does not start up?
23:52:57	BigBambi	How are you resesting it, where are you reseting it from, are you pressing any buttons just after reset, is hold on, what ipod, what version of Rockbox, has Rockbox ever worked?
23:53:10		Quit karashata ("I go, only to return again some time...")
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