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| 00:16:20 | lwizardl | ok how do i exit freedoom? |
| 00:16:45 | bluebrother | by pressing the right key(s) |
| 00:16:59 | bluebrother | http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml |
| 00:17:15 | lwizardl | nm i had to switch on hold button to get the menu back |
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| 00:34:52 | allele2 | llorean, for a plugin creator (I don't think it would be a true compiler) would the plugin prettymuch iterate through the c file and convert each function into its binary counterpart and print it out into .rock file? |
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| 00:36:19 | krazykit | allele2, that's really just compiling it. |
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| 00:38:03 | allele | oh |
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| 00:40:08 | linuxstb | allele: Why would you want to anyway? |
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| 00:45:07 | allele | hehe, lots of reasons for me, overall I'd like to be able to compile on the go |
| 00:45:26 | Llorean | Do you often code on the player or something? |
| 00:45:50 | krazykit | allele, seems easier to just carry around a laptop. |
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| 00:50:41 | allele | I know noone would code an entire plugin on their player, but if you make a plugin and notice a simple bug in it and know how to fix it why wait not just fix it on the player? |
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| 00:52:38 | Llorean | allele: It'd mean you'd need to keep an up-to-date copy of the Rockbox source on the player |
| 00:52:45 | Llorean | And your compile times would probably be longer than your battery life. |
| 00:52:58 | allele | for a single plugin? |
| 00:54:24 | Llorean | Depends on the plugin, but some of our plugins are the longest-taking parts of the normal compile. |
| 00:55:38 | allele | alright well in any case the idea is now on the log and on topic and I have to go |
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| 01:27:00 | dataangel | What's the best way for a plugin to get the time for N days from now? Not sure what combination of get_time and mktime to use, could just add seconds to result of mktime but I don't know if that's kosher |
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| 03:15:39 | soap | Llorean, are not these new "low mem" targets low mem _because_ they are flashed based and the manufactures have decided to forgo expensive RAM since it is of only marginal benefit on a flash-based player? |
| 03:16:15 | Llorean | Yes |
| 03:16:23 | Llorean | But in their case we need to fit the core *and* codec into RAM |
| 03:16:31 | Llorean | Assuming we drop the idea of plugins entirely. |
| 03:16:42 | Llorean | As in, don't reserve the plugin buffer, I mean |
| 03:16:46 | soap | If anything I think the low-mem flash targets argue for the settings-as-plugin direction, as they negate one of the strongest arguments against (disk hit). |
| 03:16:53 | Llorean | Yes, they do. |
| 03:17:15 | Llorean | But I can't imagine settings-as-plugin freeing up several MB of RAM. |
| 03:17:40 | soap | I assume the forking of settings-as-core and settings-as-plugin into two branches would be a nightmare to maintain? |
| 03:17:43 | Llorean | As it stands we use 1MB for codec + codec RAM, iirc, plus the main binary and its in-memory structures. |
| 03:18:08 | Llorean | I think whether or not it's a nightmare to maintain comes second to whether it's necessary. |
| 03:18:30 | Llorean | As it stands, we're probably going to *have* to have a "lite" or "lowmem" version of Rockbox for those targets. |
| 03:18:43 | Llorean | It might be best to just pare down the features and have "lowmem only" targets and "lowmem or full" targets |
| 03:19:13 | soap | settings-as-plugin-Mk-II, where HDD targets have a second plugin buffer for the settings plugin to be always loaded? |
| 03:19:31 | soap | and flash targets don't have said second plugin buffer? |
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| 03:24:00 | preglow | settings as plugin won't save much at all |
| 03:24:02 | preglow | just the menu code |
| 03:24:26 | JdGordon | Llorean: nothing will free up several MB of RAM... in total we use 5mb on the worst targets... 2.5MB of tht is the codec, plugin buffers and the bin |
| 03:24:32 | | Quit midkay (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 03:24:52 | Llorean | JdGordon: Exactly. My point was, more or less, we need a more drastic solution for the very lowmem targets than paring down settings. |
| 03:26:01 | Llorean | Obviously since they're flash we could cut most dircache functionality. We could probably remove database generation, requiring it to be PC-side for "rockbox lite". Drop the plugin buffer. Use a restricted subset of the codecs (only ones below a certain memory-use threshold). Tone down the UI a lot (since they're so far pretty limited screens, not too bad a problem here). |
| 03:26:06 | Llorean | Maybe even drop loadable fonts and bitmaps. |
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| 03:26:28 | soap | How much mem does database gen code take? That seems like perfect plugin fodder. |
| 03:26:34 | JdGordon | heaps! |
| 03:27:01 | Llorean | soap: Putting it in a plugin removes the ability to have it auto-update. |
| 03:27:11 | soap | why? |
| 03:27:17 | preglow | god, i wish people would stop seeing stuffing things in a plugin as a solution |
| 03:27:21 | preglow | core things should remain core |
| 03:27:22 | soap | Have said plugin lauch on boot. |
| 03:27:37 | Llorean | soap: And USB. And file delete. And etc? |
| 03:27:49 | Llorean | preglow: Database *generation* is only dubiously core |
| 03:27:54 | Llorean | For years it was external-app only. |
| 03:28:13 | preglow | well, as it is now i can agree |
| 03:28:20 | preglow | has to run on startup anyway |
| 03:28:35 | soap | I'm asking this not as someone who has the knowledge or skills to do it - but as someone wrestling with the philosophical question of it, preglow, so forgive me if I seem to be advocating one position over another. |
| 03:28:35 | preglow | but i very much like the fact that rockbox can generate its own db |
| 03:28:44 | soap | How else do you strip the core size down? |
| 03:29:00 | gregorovius | Hi. I'm currently using a nokia n800 as a music player, but i'm looking for something smaller and with more capacity. buying a used ipod and putting rockbox came to my mind, so I'd like to ask a couple things: does it show up as a usb mass device I can just copy music to, or do I have to put up with iStuff? and how's the battery life overall? |
| 03:29:05 | preglow | by optimizing and not including the kitchen sink |
| 03:29:24 | | Part christophe |
| 03:29:24 | Llorean | gregorovius: no need for iTunes, and battery life is similar to what apple advertises. |
| 03:29:38 | preglow | but yeah, i very much agree with llorean at least on the low-mem target side |
| 03:29:42 | preglow | we need to do something drastic there |
| 03:29:45 | Llorean | preglow: Well, the hypothetical target has 384KB of RAM, so it's got to be more drastic than "optimizing" |
| 03:29:50 | Llorean | Ah, right. |
| 03:30:07 | preglow | well, putting anything in a plugin isn't a solution there |
| 03:30:19 | preglow | since plugins will be _very_ restricted, if allowed at all, with so little ram |
| 03:31:14 | Llorean | How much smaller are builds for the Player than for bitmap-targets? |
| 03:31:18 | JdGordon | Llorean: I really think that the 384KB target is irrelevant to the dissucssion.. MAJOR changes will have to happen for that port whatever happens, its the 8-16MB hard disk targets which are the only valid argument (imo) and they arnt being made anymore |
| 03:31:30 | preglow | our plugins really just aren't flexible enough for them to be used for anything else than just small programs and games |
| 03:31:38 | Llorean | JdGordon: You don't know that, at all. |
| 03:31:40 | soap | 1,402,860 is current H300 RAM size. optimize that by an ungodly 50% and you're still large. |
| 03:31:57 | JdGordon | the h300 has 32MB ram... |
| 03:32:10 | soap | missing my point, JdGordon. |
| 03:32:49 | soap | My point is a modest color-screen target consumes so much RAM that "optimizing" will never get 384 and thus pruning is the only option. |
| 03:33:00 | preglow | pruning is indeed the only option |
| 03:33:21 | JdGordon | and should be target specific when its closer to a mutliation... |
| 03:33:38 | preglow | not only that, but we'll have to do add alternate code for some parts, like reading files directly from flash, not to ram first |
| 03:34:01 | * | preglow shudders |
| 03:34:03 | XavierGr | preglow: while I don't like the settings-in-a-plugin idea the main overhead of settings in size comes from the settings mechanism |
| 03:34:04 | preglow | i like my ram |
| 03:34:28 | preglow | XavierGr: are you sure? i'd be surprised if the menu code added more size than the settings handling itself for most settings |
| 03:34:32 | ameyer | we talking about the clip here? |
| 03:35:03 | * | ameyer is too lazy to scroll up |
| 03:35:24 | preglow | ameyer: not in particular, we're talking features and binary size, it seems |
| 03:35:58 | XavierGr | preglow: well just a simple integer can add up to 300 bytes of code (setting function one liner) |
| 03:36:11 | XavierGr | preglow: though I am not sure how much of this can be saved by a plugin |
| 03:36:20 | preglow | i don't really see any of this as a problem at all, i don't mind using more ram for features. the problem i see with this is that rockbox has a usability problem that'll only get worse with adding more features |
| 03:36:26 | JdGordon | that part cant be moved to a plugin |
| 03:36:34 | JdGordon | its the menu's which can |
| 03:36:51 | XavierGr | ah then I really don't know if it makes a difference |
| 03:37:13 | JdGordon | preglow: adding more features doesnt make it worse... we've known for a long time we need a usability reowkr |
| 03:37:23 | preglow | i can see rockbox becoming one of those programs where i just see all of the settings then go "bah, i can't be bothered" |
| 03:37:36 | ameyer | well, I assume Llorean's "hypothetical target" is the clip |
| 03:37:43 | JdGordon | you think that doesnt happen already? |
| 03:37:48 | preglow | it does |
| 03:37:48 | XavierGr | preglow: I find usability issues and features somewhat irrelevant. I don't think one contradicts the other. It is just that no usability improvemnts happened |
| 03:37:49 | JdGordon | ameyer: yes |
| 03:37:50 | preglow | that's my point |
| 03:38:04 | JdGordon | then there is no loss by adding more |
| 03:38:05 | preglow | and i don't want to make it worse before it's gotten better |
| 03:38:09 | preglow | hahaha |
| 03:38:10 | JdGordon | the same people will ignore it anyway |
| 03:38:12 | preglow | what kind of thinking is that? |
| 03:38:22 | preglow | "it's bad, so we can just go on and make it worse" |
| 03:38:30 | soap | how many "features" (tongue-in-cheek) are currently ifdef'd? Recording/Albumart/quick&pitchscreens/tagcache? Is that about it? |
| 03:38:38 | XavierGr | I still can't understand why a big list of selection can hinder usability |
| 03:38:55 | XavierGr | either way you will choose the setting you want to change, the others you just simply ignore |
| 03:38:58 | JdGordon | soap: yeah, not many more than that |
| 03:39:04 | JdGordon | dircache |
| 03:39:24 | soap | does dircache consume squat if it is not enabled? |
| 03:39:35 | JdGordon | it will once my latest patch goes in |
| 03:39:44 | preglow | XavierGr: so you don't feel a difference in using a program that has tons of settings and one that has fewer, but manages to do what you want anyway? |
| 03:39:45 | JdGordon | but atm its a couple k |
| 03:39:49 | preglow | i sure know what i like the best |
| 03:40:37 | soap | sounds like an argument for "non-core" settings to go non-core to a plugin. ;) |
| 03:40:49 | JdGordon | preglow: the thing is, peple comeing to rockbox want more from their DAP, its not like PC apps where there is choice, its the option of the OF, or choice |
| 03:40:54 | XavierGr | preglow: aren't you annoyed by a program that lacks the little thing you wanted to change? |
| 03:41:13 | XavierGr | preglow: and yeah programs with tons of settings are on my top lists |
| 03:41:16 | preglow | JdGordon: oh, indeed, i don't want to pare rockbox down to an ipod |
| 03:41:28 | XavierGr | preglow: most others are a major PITA |
| 03:41:34 | preglow | JdGordon: but i have a slight feeling that if we lower our standards on what goes in, rockbox will be a goddamned mess |
| 03:41:41 | Llorean | XavierGr: So you'd rather just put in every option you can imagine? |
| 03:41:51 | preglow | and in the end, also from a developers stand point |
| 03:41:58 | Llorean | Rockbox already has some really messy features |
| 03:42:10 | preglow | tons of features that few people care about soon equates to tons of features developers don't know well |
| 03:42:12 | XavierGr | preglow: some examples: Winamp vs Foobar, Windows Media Player vs Media Player classic |
| 03:42:51 | XavierGr | Llorean: Personally yes, but this is rather impractical for real use and a project such as rockbox (embedded limited resources etc) |
| 03:42:55 | JdGordon | ok, its NOT black and white... bad features will stay out, badly done features will stay out untill they are done... its the (what you love to call) mediocre ones with maybe a small following which are being argued |
| 03:43:21 | XavierGr | Llorean: and yeah just like JdGordon said only quality-done features |
| 03:43:45 | JdGordon | patches should only be rejected on technical reasons |
| 03:43:50 | preglow | it's kinda pointless arguing about this anyway |
| 03:43:56 | preglow | if there is a good feature, then it should go in |
| 03:43:56 | XavierGr | somewhat true |
| 03:43:58 | Llorean | JdGordon: So we should accept *everything* that's not technically flawed? |
| 03:44:03 | preglow | we'll argue about what is a good feature, tho |
| 03:44:22 | preglow | all i want is just for rockbox to become more usable and seem less like a bunch of tricks just thrown together |
| 03:44:30 | preglow | but i can't argue that into not being |
| 03:44:40 | preglow | that just needs someone skilled in user interfaces to come and do some work... |
| 03:44:46 | preglow | god knows that person is not me |
| 03:44:49 | JdGordon | Llorean: not everything, but if there is a patch i want and you dont thats technically fine it shuold, and if there is one you want and I dont (and you are happy to commit it) then it should |
| 03:45:12 | JdGordon | preglow: waiting for the messiah isnt helful |
| 03:45:15 | Llorean | XavierGr: not just well programmed. It needs to be a feature that, over all, improves the experience for people. That means any costs to future users (binsize is a cumulative, permanent cost, for example) should be outweighed by the overall benefits. |
| 03:45:17 | JdGordon | helpful |
| 03:45:33 | Llorean | JdGordon: So basically, as long as one person wants it, and it has no technical flaws, it goes in? |
| 03:45:36 | Llorean | That's pretty ridiculous. |
| 03:45:39 | XavierGr | and Llorean yes I agree that Rockbox has some really messy features |
| 03:45:41 | JdGordon | why? |
| 03:45:48 | Llorean | Every feature has ONE person who wants it. |
| 03:45:51 | Llorean | Otherwise it'd never be coded. |
| 03:46:04 | JdGordon | it needs one commiter to wwant it... not 1 joe shmoe |
| 03:46:14 | preglow | JdGordon: making rockbox the biggest mess we can in the meanwhile also isn't helpful |
| 03:46:16 | Llorean | The feature I want is "longer battery life" |
| 03:46:19 | | Nick Darksair{away} is now known as Darksair (n=user@123.112.113.68) |
| 03:46:20 | Llorean | can I remove features to get it? |
| 03:46:32 | Llorean | Or does it only work for adding code, rather than adding features? |
| 03:46:46 | XavierGr | Llorean: you know that this is affected insignificantly right now |
| 03:46:54 | JdGordon | then we are back to squae one with nothing new ever going in |
| 03:46:55 | Llorean | XavierGr: Not on my Archos. |
| 03:47:11 | XavierGr | Llorean: true, that why they are tagged as the problem targets |
| 03:47:20 | Llorean | XavierGr: And whether it's significant or not is irrelevant to JdGordon's suggestion that "if one committer wants it, it should be done" |
| 03:47:35 | JdGordon | preglow: small patches dont negativly affect things.. its the big ones which introduce mess |
| 03:47:43 | preglow | sure |
| 03:47:48 | XavierGr | indeed |
| 03:47:54 | JdGordon | and its the samll ones which are being argued about |
| 03:48:01 | Llorean | I thought this was about no specific feature... |
| 03:48:05 | preglow | i'm not saying nothing should go in either, i'm just saying we shouldn't alter our standards too much |
| 03:48:12 | Llorean | The ones MOST argued about are jpeg in the core, bitmap scaling, and multifont. |
| 03:48:24 | * | preglow wants jpeg in the core :> |
| 03:48:25 | JdGordon | none of which has a working patch |
| 03:48:29 | Llorean | In fact, other than XavierGr's recent patch, was there *any* other specific patch you had in mind with this complaint? |
| 03:48:31 | JdGordon | working finished patch |
| 03:49:12 | JdGordon | sure, my last 3 commits, wps view mode, bassically any time i comimt something which isnt a maintenance commit |
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| 03:49:21 | Llorean | JdGordon: And none of those were actually rejected? |
| 03:49:29 | Llorean | I mean, I'm failing to see the actual *problem* |
| 03:49:34 | Llorean | Where is this list of wrongfully rejected patches? |
| 03:49:40 | XavierGr | for me yes it is not about a specific feature, I just don't want to see the rejecting rate increasing |
| 03:49:41 | JdGordon | its the pointless arguments around it which pisses me off |
| 03:49:52 | | Join Darksair [0] (n=user@123.112.113.68) |
| 03:50:01 | Llorean | JdGordon: Ah. "People complain to me, so I wanted to complain back in the mailing list." |
| 03:50:23 | JdGordon | XavierGr: commit your patch and see what happens |
| 03:50:25 | Llorean | So, there's not actually any patches you feel were *rejected* wrongfully? |
| 03:50:37 | JdGordon | customizable quickscree |
| 03:50:38 | JdGordon | n |
| 03:50:49 | XavierGr | No, Llorean it is about the ongoing habit making setting inclussion more stric |
| 03:50:50 | XavierGr | t |
| 03:50:55 | Llorean | XavierGr: How many patches do *you* think were rejected wrongfully? |
| 03:51:04 | Llorean | If it's more strict, there *must* have been some rejections you felt should go in, right? |
| 03:51:12 | preglow | i don't really think we are getting more strict |
| 03:51:23 | preglow | perhaps as compared to the early years, but it's not the same project anymore |
| 03:51:23 | XavierGr | JdGordon: I can't commit my patch, I don't have access :P |
| 03:51:28 | Llorean | I think we just have more people, so more opinions get voiced. |
| 03:51:31 | * | JdGordon thought you did :p |
| 03:51:32 | Llorean | We're LOUDER, not the same as "more strict" |
| 03:52:02 | Llorean | "more strict" would require that we actually create a barrier to inclusion of patches beyond simply saying "I don't like that patch" |
| 03:53:20 | JdGordon | i dont like that patch isnt low enough for you already? |
| 03:53:39 | Llorean | I'm confused by that sentence. |
| 03:53:59 | JdGordon | you just said that the barrier to inclusion of patches beyond simply saying "I don't like that patch" |
| 03:54:12 | Llorean | I said that if we'd become more strict, there'd have to be an actual barrier. |
| 03:54:27 | Llorean | Right now, as far as I can tell, your complaint is "people keep telling me they don't like my patches." |
| 03:54:32 | Llorean | I don't see how that's in any form an actual "barrier" |
| 03:55:06 | JdGordon | ok, fine, done |
| 03:55:16 | XavierGr | Llorean: Actually I keep reading comments of "Settings bloat" more frequently |
| 03:55:45 | JdGordon | Llorean: you have just implictly agreed that it only needs one commiter to like a patch for it to go in |
| 03:55:46 | XavierGr | that is forming a negative filtering for further features |
| 03:57:26 | preglow | how did he agree to that? |
| 03:57:27 | Llorean | JdGordon: I never said it requires more than one. |
| 03:57:41 | Llorean | All I said was, features shouldn't go in *just because* one person wants them. |
| 03:57:56 | preglow | *poof* |
| 03:58:01 | JdGordon | which is not the same.. how? |
| 03:58:23 | Llorean | Doom *requires* 2MB of RAM to run. Just because you have 2MB of RAM, should you run doom? |
| 03:58:33 | XavierGr | preglow: indeed it's not the same project anymore. In the old days I remember it more user friendly (and I don't mean in software) |
| 03:58:53 | Llorean | One person can commit any features. The question of whether they should is not the same question as whether they're capable of doing it. |
| 04:00 |
| 04:02:14 | preglow | XavierGr: which comes from not involving so many people |
| 04:02:27 | preglow | things get more complicated with more people onboard |
| 04:02:34 | preglow | that happens to absolutely every project |
| 04:02:47 | Llorean | As the number of people involved increases, the probability of voiced dissenting opinions approaches 1. |
| 04:03:09 | XavierGr | preglow: true, I remember it had much more of a family feeling thing :) |
| 04:03:25 | preglow | yep, and i actually prefer smaller projects for just that reason |
| 04:03:52 | preglow | but there's nothing to be done about that, rockbox has gotten big, and that is good |
| 04:04:09 | JdGordon | then pre commit talks should start something like "I'm going to commit FS#... I feel it is in line with the projects goals, if you have technical objections voice them..." |
| 04:04:21 | XavierGr | preglow: of course and I hope further for its best |
| 04:04:31 | JdGordon | amen |
| 04:05:05 | Llorean | JdGordon: Just saying "I feel it is in line with the project goals" doesn't immediately make you right about it, and people will still voice disagreement. |
| 04:05:16 | Llorean | Technical objections are *not* the only objections valid on a patch. |
| 04:05:28 | XavierGr | though I am deeply conserned with its future. Devices tend to increasingly merge to phones these days :( |
| 04:05:46 | preglow | XavierGr: well, then we'll code on phones |
| 04:05:47 | ameyer | shrug |
| 04:05:58 | Llorean | Patches should be discussed on the mailing list more often. |
| 04:06:03 | preglow | the only thing that could threaten rockbox' future is if everything ran on high-powered generic hardware |
| 04:06:06 | XavierGr | rockbox might as well have a (distant) future only as an application on those devices |
| 04:06:08 | preglow | and that won't happen any time soon |
| 04:06:08 | Llorean | You get more voices, and a better way to see how many devs feel what way about it. |
| 04:06:17 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 04:06:30 | preglow | XavierGr: well, rockbox as an app isn't so horrible, is it? |
| 04:06:51 | XavierGr | Llorean: I agree that patches should be discussed more on the mailing list, though sometimes there is complete absence of opinions there |
| 04:06:54 | JdGordon | Llorean: there is still the magic number of how many objections does it take to concede? |
| 04:07:02 | JdGordon | 1? 2? 6? |
| 04:07:14 | XavierGr | preglow: of course not, it just has a different feeling to it. |
| 04:07:23 | preglow | heh, sure |
| 04:07:30 | Llorean | JdGordon: No. Just like there's no magic number for how many people must like it before it goes in... |
| 04:07:42 | preglow | XavierGr: i sure know i'd love rockbox as an app on my mobile, perhaps then i'd use it for music |
| 04:07:42 | Llorean | I've never denied that in the end it's one person's judgment call. |
| 04:08:12 | JdGordon | preglow: na, I still wouldnt use my phone for a DAP... its battery life is more imporant to me than music |
| 04:08:14 | Llorean | But all I can see is that you're complaining about being complained at, since nobody's actually *rejected* anything you can complain about. |
| 04:08:17 | XavierGr | preglow: truly that would be amazing to have, just like those linux-motorola mobile phone users |
| 04:08:56 | XavierGr | Llorean: you misunderstand, it is just worries of increasing settings censorship |
| 04:08:57 | preglow | JdGordon: well sure, depending on that of course |
| 04:09:05 | preglow | if i felt i needed music more than contacting people, i'd play music |
| 04:09:10 | Llorean | XavierGr: "Censorship"?! |
| 04:09:21 | JdGordon | XavierGr: no he gets it... we have moved off a bit from the origional argument |
| 04:09:23 | XavierGr | I mean acceptance |
| 04:09:34 | preglow | XavierGr: well, there's no need to worry about that; there's no sign that it's happening |
| 04:09:35 | Llorean | What, *exactly* is the poitn? |
| 04:09:39 | Llorean | Nobody has rejected any features. |
| 04:09:44 | Llorean | Only like, two features have been reverted ever. |
| 04:09:47 | JdGordon | customizable quickscreen |
| 04:10:08 | Llorean | So the point is "People keep complaining, and because of that, I feel intimidated and choose not to commit features even though I'm sure they're good, but not sure enough to overrule the complainers"? |
| 04:10:24 | JdGordon | you tihnk thats not a good attiude to have? |
| 04:11:01 | JdGordon | ah fuck this, im hungry, i will loosen my attitude to other's opinions |
| 04:11:05 | Llorean | I think that if you're sure the feature is the right way to go, you'd have enough confidence to say "Look, everyone's just voicing opinions, I know nobody will always agree, but I think this feature is the right thing for Rockbox, and it's implemented in the most positive way right now" |
| 04:11:19 | XavierGr | Llorean: my worry is that a negative consensus on settings might be ensured |
| 04:11:36 | Llorean | Honestly, if I were you, I'd commit the version of XavierGr's patch that uses a setting, and be done with it, rather than creating topics in the mailing list. |
| 04:11:40 | preglow | i desperately need to sleep |
| 04:11:42 | preglow | nightie all |
| 04:11:45 | JdGordon | night |
| 04:11:49 | XavierGr | night |
| 04:11:58 | Llorean | XavierGr: So people shouldn't voice opinions? *That* would be censorship. |
| 04:12:05 | Llorean | Because that's all the topic is here: People voice a lot of opinions. |
| 04:12:22 | JdGordon | now my problem is if its commited everyone will yell that i did it out of spitw |
| 04:12:24 | JdGordon | spite |
| 04:12:25 | XavierGr | Llorean: if he commited just like that there would be a lot of flame |
| 04:12:43 | Llorean | XavierGr: And? |
| 04:13:05 | Llorean | If you're sure the feature is *right*, why do you actually care about the flame? |
| 04:13:21 | JdGordon | noone is ever sure of anything |
| 04:13:33 | Llorean | I would disagree. |
| 04:13:41 | Llorean | Maybe not "sure" but "confident" at least. |
| 04:13:49 | XavierGr | Llorean: I thought commiting patches was a group process, and if there are serious objections it can't be commited |
| 04:14:04 | Llorean | XavierGr: If that were true, we'd only have one or two committers, and a vote. |
| 04:14:31 | | Join echelon [0] (n=echelon@ool-182cc7a4.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 04:14:42 | Llorean | When you're given commit access, that's a card saying "The project trusts your judgment, so try to use it wisely." That includes judging when you decide people are just being vocal, but they're vocalizing against the real best interests of the software. |
| 04:15:07 | echelon | for some reason my sansa isn't booting into its original firmware when i hook it up to usb |
| 04:15:12 | echelon | so i can't mount it |
| 04:15:25 | Llorean | If it becomes a real problem, either way, then we stop and discuss where we got off track. But if you really let loud voices stop you, nothing ever really happen, but you (the person listening to them) is the one really stopping progress, not the loud folk. |
| 04:15:38 | XavierGr | Llorean: well I've seen len0xs commits getting reversed, that wasn't good for the project either. The man got angry and left. Of course maybe it wasn't right to commit in the first place, it gets complicated |
| 04:16:10 | echelon | did i come at a bad time? |
| 04:16:11 | * | JdGordon doesnt even recoginse that nick :p |
| 04:16:16 | JdGordon | echelon: which sansa? |
| 04:16:41 | echelon | c250 ver 1 |
| 04:16:47 | JdGordon | echelon: well, either way, hold left while its booting, maybe usb detection isnt working brilliantly |
| 04:17:00 | Llorean | XavierGr: Changes in *how* things work are probably something that should be discussed, since you're taking away old behaviour |
| 04:17:12 | * | ameyer guesses echelon has one of "those" builds that freezes on usb plugin |
| 04:17:13 | Llorean | you don't *have* to, but part of having your judgment trusted is a willingness to try to discuss things first. |
| 04:17:21 | echelon | it hasn't happened before |
| 04:17:42 | echelon | cool, thanks :) |
| 04:18:26 | | Join blkhawk- [0] (n=blkhawk@g226196046.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 04:19:05 | echelon | what gui library does the sansa use for its apps |
| 04:19:24 | Llorean | XavierGr: And frankly, len0x's attitude was really bad. |
| 04:19:35 | Llorean | "I'm a new young developer, and the old guys don't want to lose control" kinda stuff. |
| 04:19:42 | XavierGr | Llorean: I agree on that |
| 04:19:48 | Llorean | echelon: What do you mean? |
| 04:19:54 | JdGordon | how long ago was this? |
| 04:19:55 | XavierGr | I am just saying it was a bad experience |
| 04:20:07 | Llorean | JdGordon: 2005, google "len0x site:rockbox.org" |
| 04:20:36 | Llorean | XavierGr: That was a case of him putting his personal use preferences in, in a way that removed the existing use preferences though. |
| 04:20:56 | Llorean | Your patch, for example, doesn't remove anything existing (at least as a setting) |
| 04:21:01 | JdGordon | hehe first hit is about settings |
| 04:21:05 | Llorean | I'd probably revert it if you hard coded "+++" as the string, for example. |
| 04:21:20 | Llorean | If it's going to be hard-coded, we need a consensus on what the new value is. |
| 04:21:35 | JdGordon | but too many settings are bad (apparently) |
| 04:21:39 | Llorean | If it's going to be a setting, on the other hand, you just need to be confident that it really improves usability more than it hurts usability. |
| 04:21:44 | XavierGr | I agree |
| 04:22:07 | Llorean | JdGordon: Too many are. That *doesn't* mean *all* new settings are. |
| 04:22:10 | echelon | Llorean: SDL? |
| 04:22:15 | Llorean | Personally, I think this one is on the lower end of "acceptable" |
| 04:22:37 | Llorean | echelon: The simulators use SDL. If you mean inside Rockbox, there's nothing but custom code. |
| 04:22:48 | echelon | oh |
| 04:22:56 | echelon | not even ncurses? |
| 04:23:01 | JdGordon | echelon: we have out or graphics library which you need to use, mostly just letting you draw lines and rectangles |
| 04:23:03 | Llorean | echelon: Rockbox isn't Linux. |
| 04:23:11 | echelon | oh.. what is it? |
| 04:23:13 | | Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f140e122a0fdb1b7) |
| 04:23:20 | echelon | i see |
| 04:23:29 | Llorean | XavierGr, JdGordon: By "lower end" I mean "it's acceptable for commit, but it's a fringe feature and is expected to incite debate" |
| 04:23:33 | echelon | cool |
| 04:23:35 | Llorean | echelon: Rockbox is Rockbox. |
| 04:23:46 | Llorean | It's a custom, from scratch system. |
| 04:23:55 | echelon | nice :) |
| 04:24:17 | JdGordon | echelon: have a look at some of the plugins... we have everything you need.. you bring up ncurses, we have a list and menu api which is just as easy |
| 04:24:49 | ameyer | rockbox, in some cases, does "borrow" code from certain linux distributions, though |
| 04:25:04 | Llorean | ameyer: Rockbox also borrows code from a variety of codecs, etc. |
| 04:25:23 | ameyer | true |
| 04:25:25 | Llorean | But Rockbox is a very, very far stretch from *being* Linux or a UNIX-like OS in general |
| 04:25:27 | ameyer | and doom... |
| 04:25:59 | | Quit Darksair ("Emacs = ESC-Meta-Alt-Ctrl-Shift") |
| 04:26:05 | saratoga | what is the low mem target people were arguing about before? |
| 04:26:07 | echelon | you're right.. it's not reading the usb |
| 04:26:12 | echelon | what's wrong with it? |
| 04:26:14 | Llorean | saratoga: Clip. And not arguing about that one. |
| 04:26:20 | XavierGr | Llorean: At start I didn't have any hopes about it, it started as a self-hack (that's why hardcoded). Then other people got interested and more customization was preffered. In the end it ended up as a setting. |
| 04:26:42 | saratoga | the Clips got 2.3MB it seems, which ought to be enough for a Black+white target |
| 04:26:45 | Llorean | XavierGr: Well, you really shouldn't post to the tracker unless you're submitting it toward commit. That's what the tracker's for. |
| 04:26:51 | saratoga | well BW flash target |
| 04:26:55 | JdGordon | saratoga: arg, that makes it worse actually... |
| 04:26:56 | Llorean | saratoga: Maybe I'm confused. Which one was 384KB? |
| 04:27:28 | saratoga | we thought the clip had 320KB until last week when funman found another 2MB hidden on it, so maybe thats what you're thinking of? |
| 04:27:37 | Llorean | maybe that's it. |
| 04:27:46 | ameyer | 384KB ought to be enough RAM for anybody... |
| 04:28:08 | Llorean | XavierGr: Anyway, I've been on the receiving end of wanting to commit a patch that a *lot* of people (in fact possibly a significant percentage of our current user-base for the affected target at the time) were in vocal objection to. |
| 04:28:16 | saratoga | I don't think we're ever likely to get a target with less then 2MB ram now that the ifp port is dead |
| 04:28:21 | JdGordon | Llorean: the tracker isnt really only for patches which should go in... there is no reason why a patch cant go there and sit waiting for support, (unless the author disappears when it comes to commit time) |
| 04:28:29 | Llorean | So I know what it's like to hear people complaining. But you (or your designated committer, JdGordon) just need to make up your mind whether the patch is "right" for rockbox or not, and then do it. |
| 04:28:43 | JdGordon | Llorean: which patch was that? |
| 04:28:45 | echelon | JdGordon: so what can i do if usb detection isn't working? |
| 04:28:49 | Llorean | JdGordon: I said "toward" commit. |
| 04:28:51 | echelon | nothing shows up in dmesg |
| 04:29:02 | saratoga | are you in the OF? |
| 04:29:05 | Llorean | JdGordon: As in, any patch that's working toward commit, even if it's not ready *yet*, but not patches that are just intended for the self. |
| 04:29:11 | Llorean | JdGordon: Sansa e200 keymap |
| 04:29:13 | echelon | the sansa knows it's connected since it's showing the charging indicator |
| 04:29:24 | JdGordon | Llorean: oh yes, I remember |
| 04:29:37 | JdGordon | echelon: your on ubuntu? |
| 04:29:46 | echelon | slackware |
| 04:29:48 | saratoga | echelon: that was directed at you |
| 04:29:57 | Llorean | JdGordon: Again it was a very subjective argument. But I was pretty darn sure the right way, in the long term, would be to have the "Rockbox" keymap rather than the "Sansa" keymap, for overall usability. |
| 04:30:23 | echelon | saratoga: OF? |
| 04:30:29 | saratoga | original firmware |
| 04:30:54 | echelon | i am now |
| 04:31:28 | Llorean | JdGordon: Anyway, I'm off for about two hours at least. I'm sure this isn't the last I'll hear of this anyawy. |
| 04:31:33 | JdGordon | echelon: try a different port on your computer, check dmesg for usb resets... if your in the OF and no usb then your on your own :( |
| 04:31:46 | echelon | k :\ |
| 04:32:03 | saratoga | reading the logs, I think complaining about settings wasting memory is rather silly when the codecs probably waste a good 0.5MB, maybe more |
| 04:32:04 | JdGordon | Llorean: na, im done |
| 04:32:30 | JdGordon | saratoga: 1MB... but they are the whole point of rockbox so its sort of valid |
| 04:32:42 | echelon | should USB mode be auto-detect or MSC? |
| 04:32:51 | JdGordon | but yeah, the big part of adding settings is stuck in the core |
| 04:32:51 | saratoga | I don't think all of the 1MB is wasted, since we need some ram for codecs |
| 04:33:45 | | Quit blkhawk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:34:09 | echelon | i'll try a reboot |
| 04:34:25 | | Nick blkhawk- is now known as blkhawk (n=blkhawk@g226196046.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 04:36:01 | saratoga | looking online there are embedded AAC-HE/PS decoders that use less then 200KB of RAM, verses the 1MB ours uses |
| 04:36:31 | ameyer | probably not open-source, though |
| 04:36:57 | saratoga | of course not, otherwise we wouldn't need faad |
| 04:37:41 | ameyer | heck, open-source doesn't even matter that much |
| 04:37:57 | ameyer | more like GPLv2 compatible |
| 04:41:08 | echelon | JdGordon: the reboot worked |
| 04:41:09 | echelon | weird |
| 04:41:20 | JdGordon | oh good :) |
| 04:41:29 | echelon | wonder what the issue was |
| 04:41:54 | | Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay) |
| 04:45:09 | gregorovius | if I were to buy a classic-line ipod solely to use with rockbox, would it make sense to get a video over a 5g? |
| 04:45:42 | gregorovius | is there any difference? |
| 04:45:47 | cool_walking_ | Video = 5G |
| 04:46:23 | cool_walking_ | The 6G (Classic) is the one you don't want, because Rockbox doesn't run on it. |
| 04:46:48 | gregorovius | cool_walking_: sorry, I meant to say 5g vs 4g |
| 04:47:03 | gregorovius | ipod video vs ipod photo or color |
| 04:47:14 | | Quit cool_walking_ ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 04:47:25 | BHSPitMonkey | 5G has a nice qvga screen |
| 04:47:49 | BHSPitMonkey | 4G Photo is less pixelles |
| 04:47:54 | | Join cool_walking_ [0] (i=cb3b81c3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-cd89f24f5c019e82) |
| 04:48:39 | gregorovius | yeah, but besides from that? can the 4g play video smoothly w/ rockbox? |
| 04:51:25 | cool_walking_ | http://rockbox.org/wiki/PluginMpegplayer says 4g gets faster video playback. |
| 04:51:35 | | Quit midkay_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:52:10 | Unhelpful | the video certainly can't, in rockbox... but the OF, using the hardware decoder, is probably your best bet for video |
| 04:53:13 | Unhelpful | or a gigabeat. the ipod line are not the very best for rockbox video. |
| 05:00 |
| 05:00:19 | gregorovius | hm, it seems video on the 5g isn't quite top notch |
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| 05:02:55 | Unhelpful | it's only good in the OF, there's a hardware decoder that's quite nice, as i understand, but not documented, so only apple gets to use it. |
| 05:04:11 | gregorovius | I see. in any case, video wouldn't be my main use, and I guess I could reboot to the OF in those cases |
| 05:05:04 | | Join daurnimas [0] (n=daurn@ppp118-208-189-55.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net) |
| 05:05:43 | Unhelpful | for overall processing muscle, the gigabeat is probably your best bet. it'll do much better if you want to use the more cpu intensive audio codecs. |
| 05:06:39 | soap | cool_walking_, that is a bit misinformative. |
| 05:06:54 | | Quit aarcane ("Leaving") |
| 05:07:52 | | Join ^thehatsrule^ [0] (n=none@unaffiliated/thehatsrule/x-873637) |
| 05:07:55 | gregorovius | Unhelpful: I don't think I can get a used gigabeat at a decent price... or at all, I only see a 10gb on craigslist here |
| 05:08:00 | soap | The 4G and the 5G have almost exactly the same playback speed _per pixel_, the 4G just has less pixels. load the 4G resolution video on the 5G and you'll get the same speed. |
| 05:08:03 | | Join Darksair [0] (n=user@123.112.113.68) |
| 05:08:09 | cool_walking_ | Okay but I didn't want to bother saying "is the same speed but has a smaller screen so blah blah" |
| 05:08:55 | soap | so you'd rather say something misleading than something clear? |
| 05:09:04 | cool_walking_ | Are you scorche? |
| 05:09:32 | gregorovius | haha |
| 05:09:45 | cool_walking_ | I said video playback, not video decoding/drawing speed. |
| 05:09:48 | soap | I can get you a 10GB Gigabeat F for $50 or a 40GB one for $100. Neither of those are great prices. toffe might have better prices. |
| 05:10:07 | gregorovius | i'm not in the us of a |
| 05:10:17 | soap | and that's still wrong. Comparing like to like and they are alike. |
| 05:10:37 | soap | gregorovius, ok, add $10 to those prices, assuming central europe. |
| 05:11:11 | cool_walking_ | so I should have added a "at full screen for each target" qualifier? |
| 05:11:40 | gregorovius | south america, actually |
| 05:11:53 | soap | I've never shipped there, hold on a min. |
| 05:13:12 | soap | varies greatly. $10 for brazil, quite a bit more for Argentina. |
| 05:14:33 | | Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 05:15:39 | soap | But back to iPods as Rockbox targets. The iPod G4 has probably the worst battery life (maybe except for the MiniG1???) |
| 05:16:18 | soap | The G5 60/80GB variants the best. (more RAM and bigger batteries than the 30GB variants) |
| 05:16:37 | gregorovius | argentina, and any case, soap, I don't trust the mail to get anything over $0.10 to me |
| 05:17:12 | gregorovius | I was thinking of getting a 5g 60 or 80gb, yes |
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| 05:44:26 | ^thehatsrule^ | hi, would anyone know if the sansa e260 with the product id/model SDMX4-4096-C70 is compatible with rockbox? |
| 05:44:46 | | Quit Horscht ("I am root. If you see me laughing, you better have a backup") |
| 05:46:45 | advcomp2019 | ^thehatsrule^, nope.. you need to look at the firmware version for sure |
| 05:51:25 | | Quit nring (Remote closed the connection) |
| 05:54:27 | ^thehatsrule^ | alright, thanks |
| 05:56:50 | | Quit XavierGr () |
| 06:00 |
| 06:06:19 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 06:31:28 | | Join AndyIL [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) |
| 06:36:54 | JdGordon | is a 3.3KB ram saving worth making buffer_alloc() harder to make slightly more dynamic? |
| 06:37:49 | JdGordon | less actually... 832 bytes even |
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| 06:59:38 | puzzles | i'm having trouble with the (obviously experimental) video support on an ipod video. it seems no matter what combination of mencoder flags i use, i can't get audio. |
| 06:59:56 | | Nick Darksair is now known as Darksair{away} (n=user@123.112.113.68) |
| 07:00 |
| 07:00:15 | puzzles | is there some magic set of mencoder flags? or does mencoder do some weird encoding that the mpegplugin can't understand? |
| 07:03:22 | cool_walking_ | puzzles, does the converted file work on your PC? |
| 07:04:34 | cool_walking_ | and.. there is an mencoder example on the PluginMpegplayer wiki page. |
| 07:04:48 | | Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 07:05:20 | puzzles | cool_walking_: yes it does. and fwiw, i've been using that example and varying it |
| 07:06:45 | puzzles | the particular files i was reencoding actually worked, but played very choppy and with the wrong aspect ratio. so i even tried -oac copy and just reencoded the video, but still no audio |
| 07:13:03 | | Nick Darksair{away} is now known as Darksair (n=user@123.112.113.68) |
| 07:13:07 | Llorean | Wait, by "worked" you mean when you didn't use -oac copy it had audio? |
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| 07:15:29 | puzzles | Llorean: yes |
| 07:15:50 | puzzles | Llorean: oh sorry, no. i misread. |
| 07:16:05 | puzzles | the original file "worked" in that the audio played fine |
| 07:16:31 | puzzles | but no matter how i tried to reencode it, the audio always failed, even if mplayer played it fine |
| 07:16:32 | Llorean | But the output file, using the original line (not -oac copy) plays fine on your computer, but not on the device? |
| 07:16:48 | puzzles | yes |
| 07:17:10 | Llorean | And you're definitely testing the output file, not the original? |
| 07:17:17 | puzzles | yes |
| 07:17:47 | puzzles | i've gone through dozens of combinations by now and kept comparing to the original |
| 07:17:55 | Llorean | Well, if you can produce a small sample that's legally distributable of a file that should work, you should post it to a bug report. |
| 07:18:11 | Llorean | The line in the wiki should work, and the file you get should play the same on your PC and on the player. |
| 07:20:27 | puzzles | hm |
| 07:20:43 | puzzles | i'll see what i can cook up |
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| 07:38:21 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 07:38:32 | puzzles | now to just wait an hour while a small chunk of elephant's dream is encoded ;) |
| 07:40:25 | amiconn | soap: If you load a G4 resolution (color/photo) video on a G5, it will play *faster* than on a Color/Photo with SVN code |
| 07:40:49 | amiconn | The G5 has asm optimised YUV->RGB conversion, and faster LCD writing |
| 07:41:11 | * | amiconn has some code in the works to change this and bring the Color/Photo up to speed |
| 07:41:11 | cool_walking_ | Thanks amiconn, now I'm even wronger... |
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| 07:46:46 | puzzles | Llorean: the elephant's dream from the wiki isn't even playing audio on the ipod! |
| 07:48:55 | advcomp2019 | i though elephant's dream encoded to work already |
| 07:49:07 | advcomp2019 | was^ |
| 07:49:29 | puzzles | it looks ok, aside from being choppy |
| 07:49:34 | puzzles | but no audio |
| 07:49:50 | puzzles | ...and now some videos that worked before won't give me any audio either... wtf |
| 07:50:50 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote closed the connection) |
| 07:50:57 | puzzles | ahhhh |
| 07:51:01 | puzzles | i think i figured this out |
| 07:51:50 | advcomp2019 | did you put elephant's dream on to your player without reencoding? because the elephant's dream on the wiki should work without reencoding it if you download the one for the ipod |
| 07:51:55 | puzzles | it seems there's no sound if you don't first play some audio in the normal rockbox interface |
| 07:52:04 | puzzles | then start a video in the mpeg plugin |
| 07:52:44 | puzzles | all this time i was testing, i paused the song on startup because it was annoying, then i tried to play a video |
| 07:53:26 | puzzles | and sure enough... my futurama episode i've been trying to encode this whole time works fine :D |
| 07:54:34 | amiconn | puzzles: You don't need to play some audio before video, I think the problem is that you *paused* audio |
| 07:54:41 | puzzles | i did |
| 07:54:53 | amiconn | If you would have *stopped* it, mpegplayer would have worked |
| 07:55:05 | puzzles | stop is unknown to ipods :P |
| 07:55:06 | Llorean | That's certainly a bug, though. |
| 07:55:09 | Llorean | puzzles: No, it's not. |
| 07:55:21 | puzzles | oh? |
| 07:55:22 | amiconn | Looks like a bug in mpegplayer - it needs to unpause pcm if necessary |
| 07:55:40 | Llorean | puzzles: Yup. It's covered in the manual. Long-press of pause, but not long enough to shut down. |
| 07:55:43 | puzzles | mm. i'll go file a bug report if someone wants to point me to the tracker |
| 07:55:54 | Llorean | There's a "bugs" link everywhere on the site |
| 07:55:56 | puzzles | Llorean: ah i didn't realize that was different. |
| 07:56:04 | Llorean | puzzles: It's covered in the manual. |
| 07:56:17 | puzzles | ok |
| 07:56:37 | amiconn | Another bug due to our dreaded pcm pause problem (it also breaks the voice UI) |
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| 07:57:11 | amiconn | hmm |
| 07:57:17 | Llorean | amiconn: At least it should be a fairly easy fix for mpegplayer though, right? |
| 07:57:37 | amiconn | plugin_get_audio_buffer() stops playback if necessay - that one should also unpause if paused |
| 07:57:46 | JdGordon | amiconn: do you know how pcm is supposed to work? |
| 07:57:46 | JdGordon | pcmbuf that is |
| 07:57:47 | amiconn | no |
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| 08:00 |
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| 08:06:27 | | Nick bughunter21 is now known as bughunter2 (n=Jelle@77.164.66.126) |
| 08:09:00 | JdGordon | if dircache is compiled but disabled it currently wastes ~800 bytes stack, 1 thread and however big the event queue is... stopping the thread being created is easy, sis it worth buffer_Alloc()ing the two buffers? (or at least the stack space) to reclain some RAM? |
| 08:09:35 | advcomp2019 | amiconn, if i am going it right, i can not make that bug that puzzles has |
| 08:09:54 | puzzles | can't reproduce it? |
| 08:10:39 | advcomp2019 | yea.. i have a sansa e280 |
| 08:10:49 | puzzles | maybe it's specific to the ipod then |
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| 08:12:16 | Llorean | puzzles, advcomp2019: What SVN revision is each of you using, and what audio codec was the music you played before using mpegplayer? |
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| 08:12:46 | advcomp2019 | Llorean, i just download r18896 |
| 08:12:56 | puzzles | r18895 |
| 08:13:52 | amiconn | advcomp2019: I can reproduce it on the H10 |
| 08:14:47 | advcomp2019 | how are you doing it.. i can try it again |
| 08:15:06 | puzzles | also seems to happen when playback is stopped |
| 08:15:48 | amiconn | advcomp2019: Play some music. *pause* (not stop) music. Then go to the browser and start the video |
| 08:16:04 | amiconn | puzzles: It definitely works when audio is stopped before. |
| 08:16:36 | puzzles | i'll try again |
| 08:17:20 | advcomp2019 | still audio.. unless it is because i have the video on the microsd card |
| 08:18:01 | amiconn | Maybe it doesn't affect the sansa. |
| 08:18:14 | * | amiconn needs to rebuild his c200 build though before he can test that |
| 08:18:41 | puzzles | no, sound is not working when stopped |
| 08:20:30 | advcomp2019 | puzzles, what type of music are you using before going to the video? |
| 08:20:54 | puzzles | mp3 in this case |
| 08:21:18 | advcomp2019 | o ok.. so still cant then |
| 08:22:27 | advcomp2019 | even with music playing then going to the video, i still get audio |
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| 08:31:08 | amiconn | advcomp2019: Music playing shouldn't trigger the bug iiuc. It's the pause that causes the problem |
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| 08:32:10 | amiconn | It may be that not al targets are affected by this |
| 08:33:24 | advcomp2019 | i think you are right have tried it about four times, and have not go it yet |
| 08:33:47 | * | puzzles -> bed, highlight me if you need anything more from me |
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| 08:48:39 | soap | that's good to know, amiconn, last time I recall seeing the breakdown on the old version of the wikipage the G5 was a bit slower than the G4 (I think it was due to the slower screen?) |
| 08:49:06 | amiconn | That must've been a looong time ago |
| 08:50:00 | amiconn | It was due to the wait-for-bcm. Nowadays we're writing directly to the bcm memory without waiting, and trigger the updates asynchronously |
| 08:50:16 | amiconn | Oh, and back then the YUV->RGB conversion was written in C |
| 08:50:47 | * | amiconn checks when he added the new bcm update mechanism |
| 08:51:44 | amiconn | Almost a year ago... |
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| 09:03:27 | amiconn | advcomp2019: Sansa does indeed not suffer from this problem |
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| 09:05:17 | advcomp2019 | o ok good because i have be testing a few things and have not got it too |
| 09:09:23 | amiconn | ipod Photo does though, as does the already mentioned H10 (small) |
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| 09:41:18 | orly_owl | I wasn't in this channel. No wonder it was so quiet. >_> |
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| 10:06:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 10:21:47 | * | linuxstb posts a long comment to the BMP resize patch and hopes others will also look at it and comment - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9458 |
| 10:23:58 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 10:25:04 | B4gder | looks like very good feedback and comments |
| 10:25:18 | B4gder | I didn't check out the recent versions of the patch |
| 10:31:50 | * | jchillerup wrote some code for modifying BMP files for embedded systems literally two weeks ago |
| 10:31:57 | jchillerup | No resizing though :) |
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| 10:33:54 | GodEater | B4gder: have you seen the email from Stephen about repointing our A record for the Positive mirror ? |
| 10:34:43 | LinusN | linuxstb: the 3-byte structs might very well be aligned, thus wasting 1 byte per item |
| 10:34:53 | petur | GodEater: have you not seen the reply? |
| 10:35:50 | GodEater | petur: typical, I just saw it :/ |
| 10:37:04 | linuxstb | LinusN: Yes, but that struct isn't always used in arrays (or just in small arrays, like the bitfields array). So maybe using two different rgb types would be more efficient overall. |
| 10:38:22 | B4gder | committer #66 is now added, welcome funman! |
| 10:38:31 | petur | yay |
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| 11:00 |
| 11:02:25 | funman | Bagder: do you moderate emails sent to rockbox-committers by non subscribers (I had sent one this week-end but maybe I should send it again) |
| 11:02:49 | B4gder | only subscribers are let through, yes |
| 11:04:21 | funman | saratoga: did you see FFmpeg was developing a new AAC decoder to rip the dependency on libfaad? |
| 11:05:33 | funman | hm I will rather answer on the development ML |
| 11:05:49 | | Quit culture (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:12:48 | linuxstb | funman: That aac decoder has been in development for a while. IIUC, it doesn't support all the features of AAC that libfaad does, and (I think) it's also floating point. |
| 11:13:23 | funman | I remember the developer was interested by a fixed point implementation (and also that Low Complexity was the primary goal) |
| 11:16:48 | | Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 11:17:01 | funman | (he is superdump on irc) |
| 11:20:19 | | Nick Darksair is now known as Darksair{away} (n=user@123.112.113.68) |
| 11:20:48 | funman | COMMITTERS file is in ISO8859 encoding, shouldn't it be UTF8 ? |
| 11:21:21 | petur | first commit coming up? ;) |
| 11:21:36 | funman | no, no .. :o |
| 11:22:14 | B4gder | funman: yes, it _should_ but it's like that because most of the web site is still 8859 and the texts from that file is used there... |
| 11:22:29 | B4gder | it's one of them "yeah we should fix that one day" things |
| 11:23:08 | funman | when ႰႹႲá‚Ⴆ will become committer I guess ;) |
| 11:23:29 | B4gder | we'll just ask him/her to change name first ;-P |
| 11:26:43 | funman | it seems I can't dcommit from the git repository, I have to use svn first to store my authentication informations |
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| 11:35:21 | funman | I don't want to download the full SVN repository again :( |
| 11:36:45 | B4gder | you should be able to svn commit from an already checked out svn repo |
| 11:36:57 | B4gder | but not from a git repo of course |
| 11:37:27 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:37:39 | funman | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GitVersionControl#Using_git_with_the_SVN_repositor explains how to use git-svn to commit from a git repository coupled to the svn repo |
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| 11:42:26 | funman | shame on me : it was just a missing perl module |
| 11:43:26 | * | GodEater hands funman his coat |
| 11:43:39 | GodEater | don't let the door hit you on the way out |
| 11:44:05 | funman | ouch - too late |
| 11:44:35 | orly_owl | oh snap |
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| 11:49:31 | orly_owl | Where's the page about the firmware for some of the Archos players? |
| 11:49:50 | orly_owl | The firmware that replaces the stock firmware. |
| 11:50:29 | GodEater | which would be what rockbox does |
| 11:50:52 | orly_owl | no |
| 11:50:57 | B4gder | that'd be rockbox.org |
| 11:51:03 | orly_owl | i saw a /. article talking about this |
| 11:51:33 | orly_owl | rockbox is installed to the flash memory, not the hard drive |
| 11:51:54 | B4gder | orly_owl: that's not true on many devices |
| 11:52:13 | orly_owl | it is for some |
| 11:52:25 | orly_owl | like the archos ondio |
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| 11:52:32 | B4gder | ondio only has flash |
| 11:52:39 | B4gder | so it's hard to use a harddrive then |
| 11:52:52 | orly_owl | yeah but rockbox is loaded onto the firmware chip |
| 11:53:00 | B4gder | not necessarily, no |
| 11:53:30 | B4gder | if you by that mean the nor flash |
| 11:53:39 | orly_owl | yeah i think that thing |
| 11:54:02 | orly_owl | i read somewhere that it didnt need the original firmware anymore, even to transfer files |
| 11:54:22 | B4gder | rockbox doesn't need the OF on Archos |
| 11:54:37 | orly_owl | yeah. got a link to that? |
| 11:54:54 | funman | www.rockbox.org |
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| 11:56:03 | orly_owl | Never mind. |
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| 12:00 |
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| 12:03:27 | funman | is it possible to know the MEMORYSIZE set in tools/configure from a .c file ? |
| 12:04:04 | B4gder | that's passed on in the MEM define in most makefiles |
| 12:04:12 | B4gder | afair |
| 12:06:09 | JdGordon | is there a reason for both those defines? |
| 12:06:18 | funman | ah right |
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| 12:06:40 | JdGordon | MEM should be defined for every target and MEMORYSIZE should be removed (or the other way around...) |
| 12:06:56 | * | JdGordon spotted that annoyance in the dircache code today |
| 12:07:15 | B4gder | as MEMORYSIZE is exported in the root makefile I don't think we need any other |
| 12:07:25 | B4gder | and MEMORYSIZE seems a better name to me than just MEM |
| 12:08:08 | B4gder | hm, but that's just a variable, not a define |
| 12:08:15 | B4gder | the define is probably only MEM isn't it? |
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| 12:09:07 | JdGordon | this sort of line is bad... #if ((defined(MEMORYSIZE) && (MEMORYSIZE > 8)) || MEM > 8) |
| 12:09:17 | JdGordon | even i it has been there for years |
| 12:13:29 | * | funman crosses fingers hoping that svn's mkamsboot will not brick his Clip |
| 12:17:44 | funman | fine :) |
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| 12:20:40 | funman | linuxstb: do you still have a problem with home button on your clip ? |
| 12:21:05 | linuxstb | Yes, the dualboot.S code in SVN is the same as when it was first committed - I haven't tried fixing it. |
| 12:21:23 | linuxstb | Although you gave me a patch to try once, and that didn't seem to help. |
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| 12:53:00 | funman | linuxstb: can you try this last commit ? |
| 12:54:11 | linuxstb | My Clip is at home at the moment, and I'm not. I can try this evening though. |
| 12:54:27 | funman | ah right, I forgot normal people have jobs sorry ;) |
| 12:54:52 | funman | now should I commit my not working code for the SD interface ? |
| 12:55:28 | funman | at least I suppose it lets us communicate with the SD controller since I receive meaningful answers |
| 12:57:35 | funman | also when is the build table on http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi updated ? |
| 12:58:33 | moos | funman: that's at your assesment... |
| 12:58:51 | | Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 12:58:51 | moos | since that will break nothing.... |
| 12:59:09 | funman | that is obvious ;) |
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| 12:59:25 | moos | then go commit! :) |
| 12:59:26 | BigBambi | funman: It is updated on every commit that isn't just e.g. manual |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:38 | funman | I don't see it rebuilding for my last commits |
| 13:00:49 | BigBambi | It might be stuck |
| 13:01:11 | * | BigBambi doesn't know and leaves it to someone that knows slightly more than him |
| 13:01:17 | moos | B4gder? |
| 13:03:17 | moos | funman: the build system seems to not was trigered, let's wait in B4gder to see what's hapened.... |
| 13:06:16 | funman | I suppose there is no red since the sansav2 targets aren't built ;) |
| 13:06:30 | moos | good suposition :) |
| 13:11:11 | | Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:12:46 | linuxstb | funman: Something definitely seems broken - I would have expected at least some of your commits (i.e. not anything in rbutil/mkamsboot) to trigger a rebuild. Your commits are also not on the front page. |
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| 13:14:27 | funman | I noticed that - but the mail went to rockbox-dev anyway |
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| 13:27:32 | B4gder | somehow my repo turned locked |
| 13:30:49 | funman | maybe the 2 pretty fast consecutive commits ? |
| 13:31:23 | B4gder | no, it's something stranger than that |
| 13:31:38 | B4gder | and most likely something just in my end |
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| 14:10:39 | preglow | B4gder: is curl included by default on os x or did i install some time? |
| 14:10:54 | B4gder | by default |
| 14:10:59 | preglow | nice |
| 14:11:25 | B4gder | yeps! |
| 14:11:52 | LinusN | except it is a version from when jesus had diapers |
| 14:12:30 | preglow | isn't the usual bsd thing "fetch" ? |
| 14:12:46 | B4gder | yes it is |
| 14:12:52 | preglow | that doesn't seem to be here |
| 14:12:56 | preglow | asked them to include a newer one? :> |
| 14:13:06 | funman | osx isn't 'bsd' : it uses gnumake by default for example |
| 14:13:17 | preglow | funman: yeah, but it's more bsd than anything else |
| 14:14:06 | preglow | that much is obvious to anyone used to gnu tools |
| 14:14:15 | preglow | i still botch half my attempts at using the tools, heh |
| 14:14:34 | B4gder | yes, they seem to try to avoid gpl licensed stuff if they can |
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| 14:20:05 | J-23 | anything new to test on e200v2? |
| 14:20:14 | J-23 | hi |
| 14:21:16 | funman | J-23: nope, do you have something new ? ;) |
| 14:22:00 | J-23 | funman: I'm not good in low-level embedded programming |
| 14:22:34 | funman | not good is enough to look at it ;) |
| 14:24:50 | J-23 | do you need Terribly High Resolution™ PCB scans? |
| 14:25:38 | funman | I don't work on the e200 so personally I'm fine |
| 14:25:53 | funman | I think daniel_at uploaded some pictures already |
| 14:26:05 | | Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) |
| 14:28:29 | linuxstb | J-23: There is still high-level code that needs to be written for the V2s. One job is to get the UI simulators compiling - which involves implementing things like button mappings in Rockbox itself. |
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| 14:29:54 | funman | I'm not sure if firmware (not bootloader) builds either |
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| 14:31:05 | linuxstb | funman: No, it won't. Getting the sim building will be a large part (and the more tedious part) of that work though. |
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| 14:34:28 | JdGordon | http://pastebin.ca/1238604 is part of the init code for dircache... that happens even if dircache is disabled (and not doing it will crash if you try going into the file browser)... is there any reason to not just change the struct to statically allocate that instead? |
| 14:35:16 | JdGordon | I would have thought that if dircache is disabled all calls just become thin wrappers for dir_uncached functions, but apparently not |
| 14:35:37 | B4gder | a fixed amount of buffer_alloc() seems pointless to me |
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| 14:44:30 | JdGordon | the "less likely to break things" fix is to add a char entrybuf[MAX_OPEN_DIRS][MAX_PATH]; and fix the pointers to that, workable? |
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| 14:45:10 | B4gder | yes |
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| 14:45:19 | B4gder | I'd say its even preferable |
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| 15:14:42 | micleftic | I have no clue if any of the developers of Rockbox are here, but let me tel you: THANKS SO MUCH!" I love this project so much, it really improved my Sansa e280 a lot. Unbelievable what can be done.. so thanks a lot and keep on working! |
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| 16:09:27 | funman | I need to use dynamic register addresses for the AS3525 SD, because the same driver can be used with the flash, and with the SD slot for targets with it |
| 16:09:46 | funman | the only difference would be the base address of all registers |
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| 17:19:59 | J-23 | hmm, can I make e200v2 background image or you'll just copy it from v1 UIsim? |
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| 17:21:08 | funman | are they different? |
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| 17:37:28 | J-23 | probably no, I didn't look thoroughly at them |
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| 17:55:58 | linuxstb | J-23: You'll need to copy the v1 bitmap, and call it "UI-e200v2.bmp" |
| 17:56:45 | J-23 | hmm, maybe symlink instead of two identifal files? |
| 17:57:04 | J-23 | identical* |
| 17:59:02 | cg | i've added a simple patch for sudoku crash in the tracker, FS #9509 |
| 17:59:19 | cg | maybe a developer can review and commit? |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:06:08 | n1s | J-23: symlink is probably not so good as we have people building on windows using cygwin |
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| 18:07:29 | preglow | anyone tried compiling rockbox with new gccs? |
| 18:08:09 | robin0800 | preglow: on what platform? |
| 18:08:17 | preglow | os x |
| 18:09:27 | preglow | works this far \o/ |
| 18:09:46 | robin0800 | preglow: I know there is a problem with linux |
| 18:09:53 | preglow | what kind? |
| 18:10:23 | preglow | ah, there we hit the wall |
| 18:10:28 | preglow | in libdemac, what a surprise |
| 18:10:29 | preglow | register constraint |
| 18:10:54 | robin0800 | preglow: dosn't make properly using the script |
| 18:14:28 | linuxstb | Which target? |
| 18:15:08 | preglow | ipod |
| 18:15:12 | preglow | nano |
| 18:15:22 | preglow | hacking away the opts now to see if i can compile the rest |
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| 18:16:11 | preglow | this is the reason why i prefer to write asm opts as full assembly functions |
| 18:16:20 | preglow | no damn registers constraints that mess up every new gcc version |
| 18:16:27 | linuxstb | J-23: Don't worry about the e200v2 sim - I'm looking at it now, and have almost fixed the few things that needed fixing. |
| 18:16:35 | preglow | more of a bother, of course... |
| 18:16:52 | | Quit martian67 ("gone") |
| 18:17:29 | preglow | hah |
| 18:17:32 | preglow | the rest compiled just fine |
| 18:17:34 | preglow | now for testing... |
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| 18:17:42 | * | linuxstb is happy Sandisk kept the same LCD and button layout for the V2s - makes the apps/ part of the port come for free... |
| 18:17:45 | J-23 | anything new to test on e200v2? |
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| 18:19:56 | preglow | linuxstb: anything like an "eject" command in os x? |
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| 18:20:28 | linuxstb | Something like "diskutil eject /dev/disk1" |
| 18:20:41 | preglow | thanks |
| 18:20:55 | preglow | well, what do you know |
| 18:21:05 | preglow | it works |
| 18:21:14 | preglow | test music |
| 18:21:34 | preglow | mp3 check |
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| 18:22:21 | preglow | hmm |
| 18:22:23 | preglow | vorbis has problems |
| 18:22:37 | linuxstb | Anyone know whether I should change all lang files if I change english.lang from something like "e200: ...." to "e200,e200v2: ..." ? Or rather, is it considered lazy if I don't? |
| 18:22:58 | preglow | ugh |
| 18:23:06 | preglow | i'll forgive you if you don't... |
| 18:23:15 | linuxstb | That's good enough for me. |
| 18:23:52 | preglow | but i don't know if you have to, in any way |
| 18:24:01 | linuxstb | And I guess e200*: would be easier than e200,e200v2 ? |
| 18:24:02 | bertrik | do we really need to distinguish between e200 and e200v in the lang files, I suppose they would use the exact same texts |
| 18:24:21 | domonoky | hm.. before you do all this work, maybe we should rethink the naming of those v2 ports... |
| 18:24:22 | linuxstb | The lang files use model names, not keypad names |
| 18:25:11 | linuxstb | If I do "e200*", then the model names won't matter... |
| 18:25:51 | domonoky | yes, e200* works even, when we change the names.. |
| 18:26:00 | preglow | 4.3 rockbox is some kilobytes larger |
| 18:26:20 | domonoky | e200ams/m200ams would be good names.. |
| 18:26:54 | preglow | 4.3 generally makes code that is a wee bit bigger, it seems |
| 18:27:06 | preglow | hmm, no, it varies, sometimes a bit smaller, sometimes a bit larger |
| 18:27:17 | bertrik | 4.3 what? |
| 18:27:20 | preglow | gcc |
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| 18:28:51 | bertrik | I don't see how ams is a good name, it's the name of the company by the chip is called as3525 |
| 18:28:57 | preglow | guess i should do some benchmarks |
| 18:29:14 | bertrik | *but |
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| 18:29:28 | | Nick karashata_ is now known as karashata (n=kimi@69.41.192.215) |
| 18:30:51 | linuxstb | domonoky: I guess I'm just used to calling them "v2" (but I know about the troublesome m200s...) |
| 18:31:03 | domonoky | bertrik: then suggest another postfix :-) m200v2 is bad, as its essentially a m200v4.. |
| 18:32:13 | bertrik | ok I agree about the m200v2/v4 |
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| 18:33:18 | bertrik | and m200as3525 would be a bit long... :) |
| 18:33:25 | n1s | preglow: i tested 4.3 for coldfire some time ago, it required a few changes to rockbox to build and work ok, ther's a patch in the tracker but it's probably pretty outdated by now... |
| 18:33:37 | | Quit n1s () |
| 18:34:11 | cg | whoops, i accidentally entered the patch FS #9509 in the bugs section instead. maybe someone can fix? (or just apply the patch and close the task;) |
| 18:34:34 | bertrik | I'll fix it |
| 18:34:51 | cg | thanks |
| 18:36:10 | linuxstb | cg: Sorry to criticise a one-line patch, but maybe a one-line comment to accompany it would be helpful? ;) |
| 18:37:18 | cg | comment in the code? sure i can add that if it seems necessary |
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| 18:44:48 | cg | linuxstb: done |
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| 18:47:09 | linuxstb | cg: Thanks. If bluebrother (who has been looking at sudoku patches recently) doesn't do it, I'll try and commit later tonight |
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| 18:47:15 | * | amiconn hrmphs at the current firmware/target/arm/ structure |
| 18:47:43 | linuxstb | amiconn: Any idea? |
| 18:47:50 | linuxstb | I mean ideas? (to improve it) |
| 18:48:48 | amiconn | It's currently a mix between the old (real-manufacturer) structure and the refined arm-subarch structure |
| 18:48:57 | amiconn | Someone needs to perform the necessary cleanup |
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| 18:51:53 | amiconn | ipod, iriver, olympus, philips, sandisk and tatung are all PP targets (although I'd probably split PP5002 and PP502x) |
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| 18:52:33 | amiconn | archos is a tsm320* target iirc, but not tms320dm320 |
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| 18:55:47 | soap | This may be the stupidest question ever, but why a e200v2 sim? What will that sim do different than the v1 one? Same resolution, same player image, same keymap... |
| 18:55:50 | linuxstb | Yes, just cleaning up the portalplayer stuff would do most of it. |
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| 18:56:40 | linuxstb | soap: Just for completeness... There are some differences, depending on how accurate the sim becomes - e.g. the e200v2 only has 8MB RAM, compared to 32MB for the v1. We may discover other things. |
| 18:56:43 | amiconn | soap: You can ask the same question for archos fm recorder vs. recorder v2, mini G1 vs. mini G2, ... |
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| 19:00 |
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| 19:07:31 | funman | j |
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| 19:21:05 | Strife89 | I take it the Sansa v2 work is coming along well? |
| 19:21:38 | funman | if you have some code to share, sure :) |
| 19:21:48 | * | Strife89 has been reading the commit list. |
| 19:21:58 | Strife89 | funman: Sorry, no code on me. :( |
| 19:22:17 | Strife89 | No v2s either. |
| 19:22:38 | funman | first steps have been made at least |
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| 19:42:19 | Lear | So, linuxstb has sneaked away? :) |
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| 20:06:38 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:07:27 | Lear | Bagder: around? Linuxstb's last commit exposed what looks like a bug in genlang... |
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| 20:17:13 | denes_ | could anybody tell me where I can find the infamous sansa v2 git tree? |
| 20:17:43 | | Quit Horscht ("We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents") |
| 20:17:45 | denes_ | s/infamous/famous sorry :) |
| 20:17:54 | denes_ | english is not my native language |
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| 20:18:41 | * | linuxstb goes to the corner and checks his commit |
| 20:18:43 | Lear | linuxstb: familiar with genlang by any chance? |
| 20:19:07 | linuxstb | No... Did I do something obvious? |
| 20:19:08 | bertrik | denes_, AFAIK all important stuff from sansa v2 git is now in SVN |
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| 20:19:28 | linuxstb | (apart from not test-compiling) |
| 20:19:29 | Lear | linuxstb: Reason the build fails: genlang translates "e200" into the regex "e200..*". |
| 20:19:45 | Lear | sorry, "e200*" into... |
| 20:19:46 | denes_ | bertrik: okay. and the git tree doesn't have a web interface? |
| 20:19:55 | domonoky | denes_: http://gitorious.org/projects/rockbox_sansa_v2 |
| 20:19:57 | linuxstb | Why would it do that? |
| 20:20:00 | denes_ | domonoky: thanks |
| 20:20:25 | domonoky | i think the only thing not in svn is the not-working sd/nand code |
| 20:20:29 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:20:47 | amiconn | linuxstb: My SH1 asm version of nrv2e_d8.S is 45% faster than the C version and less than half the size :) |
| 20:20:58 | linuxstb | Nice ;) |
| 20:21:08 | Lear | linuxstb: Not sure, really. First it replaces "*" with ".?*", which isn't likely to work. So to fix that (or something completely different) it then replaces "?" with "."... |
| 20:21:53 | Lear | Maybe the "?" replacement is to simulate simple "*" and "?" patterns. |
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| 20:22:48 | Lear | Maybe removing the "?" in the first replacement is the right fix... |
| 20:24:05 | linuxstb | Unless of course that was done for a reason... |
| 20:24:10 | Lear | Seems to have the intended effect here. |
| 20:24:53 | Lear | Doubt that; ".?*" isn't a valid pattern according to the perl version I have here. :) |
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| 20:31:47 | funman | dany_21a: can you make the link between the OF and the e200v2 lcd code in svn ? |
| 20:33:01 | linuxstb | Lear: No, but ..* is, but that would be better written as ".+" if it was intentional. Have you test-compiled many targets? |
| 20:33:40 | Lear | Problem with "..*" is that "e200" doesn't match "e200*", which it should. |
| 20:33:56 | Lear | Haven't tested many targets yet... Just e200 so far. |
| 20:34:08 | linuxstb | funman: Part of sim commit was to fix the target directory (t_model) for the e200v2 - it was using sansa-clip before. I don't know what that affected at this stage though (re: backlight/lcd testing) |
| 20:35:21 | linuxstb | Lear: Looking at the lang file, I couldn't see anything that would break with your change, so I think it's OK. |
| 20:35:40 | Lear | I'll test a few builds here first. |
| 20:36:09 | funman | linuxstb: ah right .. |
| 20:36:23 | * | funman calls for e200v2 testers: just build & run what is in svn |
| 20:37:09 | funman | maybe the regexp was ipod* for "ipod-1g" and "ipod-2g" ? |
| 20:37:15 | funman | i.e. it assumed a suffix |
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| 20:39:15 | Dhraakellian | hmm... so that huge mp3 optimization didn't actually make it into 3.0? |
| 20:40:02 | | Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:40:25 | bertrik | Dhraakellian, you mean the dual-core thing for the mp3 codec? |
| 20:40:39 | linuxstb | Dhraakellian: No, but there's no real reason not to use a current build if that feature is useful to you. |
| 20:40:58 | Dhraakellian | heh... it's not really terribly useful to me, since I use Vorbis for most stuff |
| 20:41:06 | Dhraakellian | but I was just thinking of doing a battery test |
| 20:41:16 | * | domonoky reads about this low-mem target discussion, and notices the lowest mem we have is 2MB with greyscale display. Anything with color has atleast 8MB.. |
| 20:42:04 | Dhraakellian | which was keeping me from updating, since I wanted to test with 3.0 |
| 20:43:40 | Dhraakellian | is it sad that Sudoku improvements are more of an incentive for me to upgrade my music player's firmware than improvements in actual music playback time? |
| 20:44:06 | BigBambi | yes :) |
| 20:45:13 | Dhraakellian | just out of curiosity, is it at all likely that other codecs could see such a drastic performance boost, or was this something very mp3-specific? |
| 20:45:57 | funman | If I understand correctly every codec has to be modified to execute in parallel |
| 20:46:13 | funman | also I'm not sure what are the capabilities of the 2nd core used here |
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| 20:47:14 | Dhraakellian | so if possible it's mainly just a matter of someone with the skills, time, and motivation getting around to doing it? |
| 20:47:28 | BigBambi | pretty much |
| 20:47:38 | linuxstb | funman: Yes, the codecs are all single-threaded (apart from spc, and now mp3), meaning they need adapting for dual-core. |
| 20:47:41 | domonoky | most codecs would probably benfit from running on both cores. but its a lot of work.. |
| 20:47:43 | funman | I would say it's a matter of motivating saratoga |
| 20:47:48 | BigBambi | It also depends on the design of the codec if it can be easily and equally split onto dual-cores |
| 20:48:21 | linuxstb | domonoky: The Clip has three colours - yellow, blue and black ;) |
| 20:48:28 | BigBambi | (easily being relative :)) |
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| 20:48:40 | * | Dhraakellian wonders how much of a bounty would be needed to make Ogg Vorbis the fastest codec on the e200 again |
| 20:48:44 | pixelma | domonoky: 2MB with a greyscale display - which one is that? |
| 20:49:01 | funman | Dhraakellian: usually multimedia coders don't work for bounties |
| 20:49:05 | domonoky | linuxstb: not really.. at least for the software :-) |
| 20:49:12 | Dhraakellian | hehheh |
| 20:49:16 | funman | pixelma: archos? |
| 20:49:31 | pixelma | that's monochrome not greyscale |
| 20:49:45 | funman | greyscale with only 2 steps ? :) |
| 20:49:50 | Dhraakellian | no insult intended if it at all came across as such |
| 20:50:07 | domonoky | pixelma: it seems its even better.. all low-mem targets are b/w for now |
| 20:50:16 | funman | I wonder if a better cooperation with ffmpeg is possible |
| 20:50:18 | DaaT | hi everyone. Quick question. A couple of weeks ago I bought a used (but in great shape) iPod 5th gen, 30GB, to put Rockbox on it. First run, the battery lasted me about 8 hours, which was fine. But it's been getting worse and worse. Last night, after it was empty, I fully charged it, and today used it for 2 hours (commute), it's empty again |
| 20:50:25 | DaaT | anyone else this happened to? |
| 20:50:36 | DaaT | I listen mostly to 320kbps MP3 files |
| 20:50:40 | linuxstb | domonoky: I would expect that that's not a co-incidence... |
| 20:50:44 | funman | pixelma: I thought greyscale was a hack around a monochrome display - or at least I was told so |
| 20:50:55 | DaaT | i added all my music and just let it play till I get to work (or home), shuffled |
| 20:51:34 | funman | DaaT: did you try benchmarking with the Apple firmware ? |
| 20:51:52 | linuxstb | funman: We have some targets with 2-bit greyscale displays. On both mono and 2bpp displays, the "greyscale lib" uses temporal dithering to display more levels (only in plugins - it's a resource-intensive feature) |
| 20:51:55 | DaaT | funman, nope |
| 20:51:56 | domonoky | funman: rockbox have such a hack, all b/w displays can have 33 shades in rb.. but there are players with nativ greyscale |
| 20:52:05 | DaaT | is it included with their firmware? |
| 20:52:20 | pixelma | domonoky: 129 shades, you're outdated ;) |
| 20:52:29 | domonoky | oh.. time goes by.. |
| 20:52:36 | funman | DaaT: I mean just use it and see how much time it takes to go out of battery |
| 20:52:41 | DaaT | ahh :) |
| 20:53:19 | DaaT | didn't like I said. Didn't even bother much with it in "apple-mode", since I only bought it for rb. Will have to put some music in it and give it ago |
| 20:53:31 | Dhraakellian | what's the best way to test OF battery life? |
| 20:53:34 | | Join n1s [0] (n=nils@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 20:53:53 | funman | the file is grEyscale.c but its content use grAyscale : i'm not sure what is the correct wording .. |
| 20:53:58 | Dhraakellian | plug it into the soundcard, then hit play and record in Audacity at the same time? |
| 20:54:07 | gevaerts | That's a good way, yes |
| 20:55:19 | linuxstb | Lear: Thanks for fixing (I hope) genlang. |
| 20:57:08 | pixelma | will ondio* still match ondiofm and ondiosp etc.? |
| 20:57:28 | linuxstb | Yes |
| 20:58:13 | linuxstb | Lear's change means that "*" now means "zero or more characters", instead of "one or more" |
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| 20:59:34 | pixelma | thanks for explaining - only very very little knowledge about regex here |
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| 21:00 |
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| 21:04:33 | IudeX | hi all |
| 21:04:47 | IudeX | Are you talking about Clip LCD? |
| 21:05:28 | IudeX | WoW it's impossible -> Funman is not here :D |
| 21:05:35 | n1s | doesn't the clip have an OLED display? ;P |
| 21:06:05 | | Join dabujo_ [0] (i=xx@p4FDB111C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:06:30 | IudeX | Och.. yeah |
| 21:06:31 | IudeX | :D |
| 21:07:24 | IudeX | So how will rockbock looks on Clip :D <- u understand? |
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| 21:11:00 | pixelma | IudeX: like this http://home.infocity.de/m.arnold/temp/cabbiev2clip.png ;) |
| 21:11:01 | bertrik | IudeX, a screenshot was posted for clip and m200 on the sansa v2 forum thread IIRC |
| 21:11:16 | | Quit dabujo (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 21:11:58 | IudeX | WoW nice :) gz |
| 21:12:07 | n1s | cg: in your patch, shouldn't the size be a sizeof(something) instead of a magic number? |
| 21:12:09 | pixelma | just a quick mockup I did last time the Clip's LCD was discussed |
| 21:13:04 | IudeX | but rockbox doesn't work :( |
| 21:13:26 | n1s | would for example statusbar+list title fit in the yellow part? |
| 21:14:43 | pixelma | I've been told that this part was 16 pixels tall, so with sysfont (or another with the same height) it should |
| 21:14:52 | cg | n1s: it is just a copy paste row from another line, so i did not change it |
| 21:15:34 | n1s | pixelma: then that could work out pretty nicely |
| 21:15:38 | n1s | cg: ah, ok |
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| 21:37:20 | bertrik | I think I have an explanation for why a read is done at a specific SDRAM address during SDRAM initialisation (required for the clip for example) |
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| 21:40:05 | * | linuxstb waits... |
| 21:41:20 | bertrik | it sets the SDRAM mode register, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDRAM#SDRAM_mode_register |
| 21:43:05 | bertrik | the value 0x2300 sets it to non-burst mode, CAS latency 3, sequential burst ordering, burst length 1 word |
| 21:43:07 | | Join funman [0] (n=fun@AAnnecy-257-1-105-160.w90-36.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:43:29 | bertrik | oh hi funman, I was just explaining the weird SDRAM read during SDRAM initialisation |
| 21:43:32 | funman | bertrik: how can such a register be set only with a read ? |
| 21:43:44 | funman | yeah I just read the logs ^^ |
| 21:44:26 | bertrik | the settings are encoded in the address for this command |
| 21:45:48 | funman | ah right |
| 21:45:58 | funman | do you know how to decode the address? |
| 21:46:29 | funman | 0x2300 = 10001100000000b , a bit more than 10 bits |
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| 21:47:58 | domonoky | ah, the intend is not to read something, but to pull some address lines high :-) makes sense.. |
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| 21:49:37 | bertrik | I looked at the SDRAM wiki and made an educated guess that it should be shifted :P |
| 21:50:54 | funman | for the e200v2 it's 0x2300*4, or 0x2300<<2 |
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| 21:51:02 | amiconn | Typical SDRAM setup method - the coldfire irivers also do this |
| 21:51:24 | funman | maybe the addresses aren't encoded the same way on the e200v2 and clip/m200v2 SDRAM |
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| 21:55:32 | funman | amiconn: in which file? |
| 21:55:47 | amiconn | firmware/target/coldfire/crt0.S |
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| 22:00 |
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| 22:06:40 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 22:09:46 | linuxstb | funman: I've just tested the svn mkamsboot on my Clip, and it's working perfectly. |
| 22:09:51 | funman | base+0x2324 <= was this calculated, or is it using the same value than the OF ? |
| 22:09:55 | funman | linuxstb: ah cool ;) |
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| 22:11:43 | funman | amiconn: at line 149 of crt0.S |
| 22:13:11 | amiconn | Afaik it uses the same value as the OF, but the bits are documented as well (in the SDRAM datasheet) |
| 22:13:39 | amiconn | LinusN should know - he did this stuff |
| 22:13:42 | funman | ah I think I have the datasheet for the e200v2 SDRAM (thanks to dany_21a) |
| 22:15:16 | funman | row/column are multiplexed on the same address pins |
| 22:15:24 | * | rasher has e200v2 sims up now |
| 22:15:29 | funman | that must mean the setting uses either column either address (or both?) |
| 22:16:47 | | Quit Llorean (Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:17:05 | funman | for the e200v2 SDRAM: row length = 12, column length = 9, and we need 10 bits, so that'd be the row |
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| 22:17:31 | linuxstb | amiconn: How big is your sh-1 ucl decompressor function? |
| 22:17:42 | amiconn | funman: It's neither, because that data goes to the sdram controller, not to the sdram |
| 22:17:50 | amiconn | linuxstb: 220 bytes |
| 22:18:05 | amiconn | The C version is 524 bytes when not inlined |
| 22:18:29 | linuxstb | Are sh-1 instructions a fixed size, or variable? |
| 22:18:36 | amiconn | Fixed, 16 bit |
| 22:19:48 | linuxstb | So is sh-1 lacking some things that arm-thumb can do? |
| 22:20:08 | amiconn | SH1 is risc to-the-max is most respects: fixed instruction width, no shift-by-n (i.e. no barrel shifter), no condition code register (just a single bit) |
| 22:20:57 | amiconn | Yes - SH1 never sets the T bit in arithmetic instructions, so you have to test or compare explicitly |
| 22:21:25 | | Quit meven (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:22:28 | amiconn | How big was the thumb version again? |
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| 22:23:41 | linuxstb | The version we use is 168 bytes, but I think that's got a few instructions removed from the original. |
| 22:24:28 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@ppp-70-242-15-169.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:24:32 | amiconn | Ah, yes |
| 22:24:41 | amiconn | The plain version is 186 bytes |
| 22:24:45 | | Quit Schmogel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:25:03 | amiconn | But e.g. arm has load/store multiple regs - sh doesn't |
| 22:26:43 | * | amiconn tried the thum version on minig2 while hunting for the bug in the SH1 code |
| 22:29:30 | amiconn | My final version is a bit different from the ones in UPX - it takes the same parameters as our C version, and also has the same return value |
| 22:30:13 | | Join massiveH [0] (n=massiveH@ool-44c48a1e.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:30:45 | funman | did you write it from scratch or from gcc output ? |
| 22:30:53 | amiconn | The ones in UPX take 4 parameters, and return an "error" value that indicates a decoding error when it's non-zero. Our version only takes 3 parameters and returns the compressed length |
| 22:32:03 | amiconn | funman: I wrote it as a "translation" from the thumb code, with the necessary adjustments |
| 22:33:31 | | Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:34:04 | | Quit Horscht ("electromagnetic radiation from satellite debris") |
| 22:35:03 | amiconn | I'll integrate the asm version into the flash bootloader as well, for faster booting of flashed rockbox |
| 22:35:28 | | Join igcbg [0] (n=4b203e89@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-bb580326949cf4ac) |
| 22:35:39 | amiconn | Right now only the recv1 profits from it (other archos targets don't need the self-extractor yet) |
| 22:36:27 | igcbg | hey... new to rockbox need help downloading it for my ipod nano if u can help me out pm me please =] |
| 22:37:15 | funman | igcbg: if you have a 3rd or more generation nano, rockbox will not work on it |
| 22:37:24 | igcbg | its a first gen |
| 22:37:26 | Llorean | funman: 2nd or more generation. |
| 22:37:50 | funman | Llorean: ok, sorry |
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| 22:38:35 | Llorean | igcbg: What step in the manual are you stuck at? |
| 22:39:18 | igcbg | i need either the bootloader or firmware... |
| 22:40:13 | Llorean | No, you need both. Why not try the automated install in the manual instead? |
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| 22:40:38 | NHeal | brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
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| 22:40:50 | igcbg | ok |
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| 22:43:21 | gartral | hi sll |
| 22:43:44 | gartral | all* |
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| 22:59:31 | Rudy77 | Can anyone tell me if Rockbox supports wma files below 32kbps on an IRiver H320? |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:36 | | Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-867613901550a46b) |
| 23:00:47 | Bagder | can't you just try it? |
| 23:00:55 | n1s | Rudy77: I think so but i'd guess saratoga could telll you :) |
| 23:01:07 | linuxstb | Bagder: Did you see Lear's genlang commit? |
| 23:01:17 | Bagder | yes, I'm fine with it |
| 23:02:28 | | Join krazykit [0] (n=kkit@host-69-145-35-234.static.bresnan.net) |
| 23:03:11 | Rudy77 | I thot I saw in a FAQ somewhere that it didn't, but I wasn't sure how old that info was. I haven't installed it yet on my player cuz of that limitation. |
| 23:03:44 | saratoga | what faq |
| 23:03:51 | | Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 23:04:12 | bluebrother | isn't wma the real limitation? ;-) |
| 23:04:53 | Rudy77 | The General FAQ at rockbox.org. |
| 23:04:56 | Rudy77 | It says: |
| 23:04:57 | Rudy77 | Yes. Support for non-DRM WMA files is included, although it requires optimisation to play realtime on most targets, and will not currently play files with a bitrate less than 32kbps. See here for details: SoundCodecWMA. It is very unlikely that Rockbox will be able to play protected WMA files. |
| 23:05:38 | bluebrother | Rudy77: why are you reading the FAQ to us? |
| 23:05:42 | n1s | Rudy77: if you don't like rockbox you can uninstall it |
| 23:06:33 | Llorean | bluebrother: Saratoga asked which FAQ, though |
| 23:06:45 | | Part gartral |
| 23:06:55 | Rudy77 | I'm just asking if perhaps there's been an upgrade and that info is no longer accurate. I haven't installed it and don't want to go thru the process if that limitation exists right now. |
| 23:07:12 | bluebrother | Llorean: well, does that mean we couldn't read the FAQ ourselves if we know which one? ;-) |
| 23:07:12 | massiveH | by installing rockbox, you have lost the ability to play protected WMAs now. |
| 23:07:17 | Rudy77 | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GeneralFAQ#Will_Rockbox_play_WMA_files is the FAQ. |
| 23:07:44 | linuxstb | You can always test your actual WMA files in the Rockbox UI simulator - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UiSimulator |
| 23:08:26 | saratoga | ok i updated the faq |
| 23:08:48 | saratoga | and anywya if you clicked the more information link, it had up to date information |
| 23:09:40 | Rudy77 | linuxstb: Thanks for that link! |
| 23:12:16 | Rudy77 | saratoga: I'm sorry for my ignorance - tnx for the change - am I to conclude that it does support bitrates below 32kbps now? |
| 23:13:10 | n1s | We have too many FAQ's and guides strewn about the wiki... Info regarding Rockbox and it's use should be in the manual. |
| 23:13:51 | * | n1s hints to people with possible codec quirks to add them to the "Supported audio formats" table in the manual (appendix A) |
| 23:14:09 | Rudy77 | nls: I did peruse the manual and didn't see that limitation mentioned, but it was on that one FAQ, thus my confusion and it's why I asked. |
| 23:14:47 | n1s | Rudy77: I understand your confusion, that is the problem with having similar info in many different places |
| 23:14:55 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:16:39 | yhuang | does pictureflow check .rockbox/albumart ? |
| 23:19:07 | * | rasher thought PF used the code from apps to search for albumart |
| 23:19:14 | rasher | But now I'm not so sure |
| 23:20:28 | yhuang | i have a load of album art in .rockbox/albumart and they show up when i play a song, but when i run pictureflow it says no album art detected |
| 23:20:46 | yhuang | i tryed re initializing the database too |
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| 23:22:57 | rasher | yhuang: that sounds like a bug |
| 23:23:48 | bertrik | I can't make pf work on my e200 either, although I think I met all requirement mentioned on the PluginPictureFlow wiki page |
| 23:23:53 | rasher | As far as I can tell, it gets this info from the DB, so it should work |
| 23:24:49 | | Quit massiveH ("Leaving") |
| 23:25:54 | yhuang | bertrik, does the album art load up in wps for you? |
| 23:25:54 | | Join DerDome [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-253-194.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:26:43 | bertrik | yhuang, yes. I have 120x120 AA by the way while pf prefers 100x100 |
| 23:27:58 | yhuang | ok so we know its pictureflow's problem |
| 23:28:07 | funman | saratoga: do you think you will plug your jtag adaptor to your fuze before I receive the adapter I ordered? |
| 23:29:44 | saratoga | funman: i really have no idea when i'm going to have time to dig into this |
| 23:30:00 | saratoga | i'm really busy this week, and then i have to figure out a way to solder to the tiny connectors |
| 23:30:19 | saratoga | you're likely to be done before me I think since you have normal sized leads on teh clip |
| 23:30:28 | funman | I can't make you less busy, but did you investigate the suggestions on the forum ? |
| 23:30:37 | saratoga | the wire on a tip? |
| 23:31:04 | funman | can't remember the exact thing - the only electronic I know is at an higher scale than that ;) |
| 23:31:23 | pixelma | pictureflow seems to have quite a number of not-so-small issues |
| 23:31:43 | saratoga | the two ideas i saw were to put a fine gauge wire on a soldering iron, and to use an adapter with the proper solder pitch |
| 23:31:49 | rasher | yhuang: I think you should file a bug |
| 23:32:26 | saratoga | i tried the wire under a stereo microscope at 20x mag, and it was small enough to work, but I couldn't keep my hands steady enough to solder |
| 23:32:38 | funman | too much coffee ? ;) |
| 23:33:06 | saratoga | i'll probably take another shot at it |
| 23:33:08 | funman | try looking for help from other people, maybe 1 person out of x can be this steady |
| 23:33:28 | scorche|sh | what pitch is this that you are trying to solder? |
| 23:33:34 | saratoga | 0.5 mm |
| 23:33:36 | bertrik | is it possible to get a flatcable with the correct pitch (and use lots of flux) ? in that case you may not need to be that steady and accurate |
| 23:34:00 | scorche|sh | i can do that if you really need |
| 23:36:12 | saratoga | scorche|sh: whats your method? |
| 23:36:37 | scorche|sh | nice soldering station, careful hand/eye |
| 23:36:50 | saratoga | i should try again, it seems like i should be able to do this |
| 23:37:56 | funman | read the dark tower from Stephen King, it learns how to synchronize hand and eye (to shoot, but this should work for solder) |
| 23:38:10 | saratoga | which sansa is this: http://www.woot.com/ |
| 23:38:32 | rasher | m200? |
| 23:38:36 | scorche|sh | M240....as said |
| 23:38:49 | saratoga | ah missed that |
| 23:38:57 | scorche|sh | both in the description and the "Products" bit |
| 23:39:01 | saratoga | might be easier to just buy one of those and jtag it |
| 23:39:14 | saratoga | they're AMS right? |
| 23:39:18 | rasher | That sure was cheap |
| 23:39:21 | rasher | Sold out.. |
| 23:39:24 | funman | the v4, right |
| 23:39:31 | scorche|sh | the others are TCC |
| 23:39:44 | funman | you should ask domonoky or bluebrother if there is a suspect JTAG connection |
| 23:40:50 | rasher | Bagder: thoughts on providing windows sims? |
| 23:40:53 | bertrik | hmm, too bad, would like one, even if it were pink :P |
| 23:41:20 | Bagder | rasher: I think it would be cool |
| 23:42:12 | saratoga | Bagder: can anyone update the front page via SVN or does it take something more then that? |
| 23:42:20 | Bagder | rasher: if so, do you want to host them "officially" or would you like me to rsync them over somewhere? |
| 23:42:32 | * | linuxstb wonders if we should rename the "archos" directory in the sim, or keep it for nostalgic reasons |
| 23:42:38 | Bagder | saratoga: the web site content is in svn, but the actual update from svn on the site needs to be done manually |
| 23:43:28 | rasher | linuxstb: I've said many times that "disk" would make more sense, but amiconn and Bagder disagreed. Grumpy old men |
| 23:43:39 | pixelma | linuxstb: is it timt for this discussion again? ;) |
| 23:43:48 | pixelma | time too |
| 23:43:52 | * | bluebrother is nostalgic and a grumpy old man :) |
| 23:43:53 | gevaerts | rasher: "disk" is clearly wrong :) |
| 23:43:55 | Bagder | a good subject never dies! ;-) |
| 23:44:13 | * | linuxstb apologises - he must have missed the previous discussions (or is simply going senile...) |
| 23:44:23 | rasher | It's been very brief, probably |
| 23:44:29 | * | gevaerts thinks that the sim should support multivolume |
| 23:44:54 | pixelma | I believe that came up more than once, not sure though |
| 23:46:06 | * | linuxstb takes that as a "no, let's keep it as it is" |
| 23:46:22 | BigBambi | If they are going to be offered more widely though, it is confusing |
| 23:47:04 | funman | gevaerts: if the simulator supports multiple volumes, why not 'volume1' ? |
| 23:47:13 | | Quit petur ("Zzzzz") |
| 23:47:32 | n1s | or put_music_here ? |
| 23:48:05 | n1s | or s/here/inside/ even |
| 23:48:21 | bluebrother | nah. Why not "root"? ;-) |
| 23:48:22 | Llorean | "simulator data" |
| 23:48:23 | pixelma | what if people want to try out gameboy roms etc. there? ;) |
| 23:48:26 | rasher | "virtual_disk" |
| 23:48:37 | Bagder | rasher: so maybe we should start with getting a script committed (somewhere) that builds all sims (cross-compiled) ? |
| 23:48:42 | BigBambi | "My Music" :) |
| 23:48:54 | bluebrother | "My Rockbox" :P |
| 23:48:58 | BigBambi | hehe :) |
| 23:49:00 | * | gevaerts hits BigBambi over the head with a guitar |
| 23:49:03 | Bagder | "My Archos" ! ;-P |
| 23:49:06 | * | Bagder ducks |
| 23:49:33 | bluebrother | hey, I even kinda like "My Rockbox". The only thing I dislike is this stupid space in the folder name ... |
| 23:49:34 | * | BigBambi was far too late in ducking |
| 23:50:00 | gevaerts | I actually like "root" |
| 23:50:14 | rasher | Bagder: what kind of scripts do we have now to build stuff? Building a cross-compiled sim is exactly the same as a regular sim, except you set PATH to include the cross-compiled SDL. |
| 23:50:24 | bluebrother | "unzip to the root folder"? ;-) |
| 23:50:43 | rasher | Maybe rockboxdev.sh could include a "build SDL for cross compiling the sim" option |
| 23:50:58 | Bagder | rasher: we have scripts like tools/release that builds a set of bins for release |
| 23:52:21 | | Part Rudy77 |
| 23:52:43 | rasher | Bagder: does the main server still build all the daily bilds? |
| 23:52:50 | Bagder | yes |
| 23:53:07 | Bagder | and voices, and manuals |
| 23:53:46 | rasher | Any particular reason the build system isn't used for this? |
| 23:54:15 | rasher | Except the voices and manuals, of course.. that's not quite as easy to distribute |
| 23:54:50 | Bagder | just for the stability of knowing that it is the exact same machine doing them all, and for easyness as sometimes builds fail or there's a mixed situation exactly when the daily build is about to happen etc |
| 23:54:56 | Llorean | Well, it does mean that even if one build server's doing something funny, the dailies are "good" (assuming the 'funny' buildserver isn't the main one) |
| 23:55:06 | rasher | That makes sense |
| 23:57:05 | | Quit bmbl ("Woah!") |
| 23:57:29 | * | bluebrother wonders if FS will ever get fixed |
| 23:58:13 | | Nick HBK- is now known as HBK (i=hbk@pool-71-96-74-73.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).