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#rockbox log for 2008-11-04

00:00:10 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:01:05 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:02:51 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (
00:04:11 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:05:17n1susing tar (introducing a "fulltar" target first) works just as well as zip -0 time difference is in the error margin
00:05:48n1slinuxstb: do you think it is worth investigating if it can be done directly by buildzip?
00:06:06linuxstbI can't think why it couldn't be.
00:06:11 Join MarcGuay [0] (
00:06:17rasherBuildzip is a bit clunky, if you ask me
00:06:22 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Ka-chunka")
00:07:01linuxstb"make install" (no fonts) and "make fullinstall" options would be nice as well.
00:07:08 Quit Thundercloud_ (Remote closed the connection)
00:07:28funmanin timer.c , callers can register only one timer at once ? (i.e. you can not have 2 timers running at the same time)
00:07:57MarcGuayJdGordon_: Plans to include the quick screen changes to the manual and/or MajorChanges?
00:08:15 Quit jhulst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:08:47linuxstbfunman: I think that's probably a hardware limitation on current targets - they only have two timers. One timer is used for the system tick, and the other is the "user timer".
00:08:54JdGordon_MarcGuay: major changes yes, i dont do the manual... i cant stand latex
00:09:11funmanlinuxstb: I only see 1 timer being used in timer.c, is the other one used elsewhere ?
00:09:28linuxstbProbably in kernel.c or similar...
00:09:49MarcGuayJdGordon_: There's something weird about the "for at least" settings in that list, but the context makes it clear what they're about...
00:09:59 Quit reacocard (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:10:28MarcGuayAny reason why you can't screen scroll on that list?
00:10:44MarcGuayThe right button seems to just exit.,
00:11:39 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
00:12:26JdGordon_yeah, its not a regular option screen... im thinking about reworking the whole ui though
00:12:35linuxstbfunman: Hmm, I can't see it either...
00:12:38JdGordon_what "for at least" settings?
00:12:50 Nick JdGordon_ is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:12:58MarcGuayTurning the status bar on is buggy.
00:13:05funmanlinuxstb: that stuff can wait, I just wanted to keep me busy :)
00:13:25MarcGuayJdGordon: The "for at least"s are recording related.
00:13:41JdGordonah ok
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00:16:26 Quit MethoS-- (Remote closed the connection)
00:16:42 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:17:57n1slinuxstb: ok, doing it in buildzip wasn't really hard, and slightly faster, will clean up and check in tomorrow though, it's way past "safe coding-o'clock" :)
00:18:43linuxstbn1s: I noticed deleted the .rockbox directory first - did you change that?
00:18:57 Quit Rob2223 ()
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00:19:56n1slinuxstb: no, just did some quick hacking, my perl foo isn't helping either
00:21:32 Quit tyfoo ("Carpe diem")
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00:25:58 Quit ender` (" Please help Conserve Gravity - Play Chess, not Basketball.")
00:29:06 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c264@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:31:06saratogawhy does the current days IRC log have a "−−Delimiter Content-type: text/html " line at the top?
00:31:30saratogai think this causes problems for google chrome
00:33:56funmansaratoga: I remember seeing this but now it's absent (in firefox 3)
00:34:42rashersaratoga: seems you now ruined it for firefox as well by uttering that line
00:35:07*rasher doesn't pretend to understand what's going on
00:35:10saratogait works for me in firefox, but if i try chrome, it tries to download the file rather then open it
00:35:24saratogaand then once the day's log is finished, that line gets removed, and the page loads normally
00:35:43rasherThe log now gets cut off at: <saratoga> why does the current days IRC log have a "
00:36:19funmana link with ?
00:36:36saratogaoh haha
00:37:41saratogaBagder: can you unstick the logs?
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00:40:43*linuxstb doesn't have a problem with the reliable old text file
00:53:22funman% arm-elf-objdump -D bootloader/bootloader.elf|grep -i timer
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00:53:36funmanI don't understand why, since timer.o is built
00:54:04JdGordonits not linked if nothing is used in it?
00:54:21funmanI expected the non static functions (like the ISR) to go in
00:57:47linuxstbOnly if it's used. You can also look at bootloader/ to see what's linked.
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00:58:54jt_is there a reason I'm still seeing old podcasts in database view? and I can listen to them, even though I deleted them?
00:59:14rasherjt_: they're still on the drive. Probably in a recycle bin of sorts.
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01:00:22jt_does rockbox cache them somewhere?
01:00:41linuxstbHow did you delete the files?
01:01:31jt_i'm on linux
01:02:43linuxstbBut no, Rockbox doesn't cache the files. The database may not have noticed they've gone (I think you need to enable some options for that to happen), but if you rm them, they shouldn't play.
01:03:30jt_they are playing though :S I can't find them on the ipod either..which is weird
01:04:37 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:04:43rasherDid you cleanly unmount?
01:05:15linuxstbAnd what device are you running Rockbox on?
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01:05:52saratogaif they play then you didn't delete them (or you deleted one copy but not another)
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01:06:36jt_rasher: yes linuxstb: ipod video 30g
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01:23:52PaulJamJdGordon: i think logging requires a reboot too.
01:24:24JdGordonyeah, and cuesheet... found them after the commit... ive put up a wiki page to list the problematic settings
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01:39:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:27:51mc2739funman: ping
02:29:16funmanmc2739: pong
02:29:48funmanwhat's up ? is your e200v2 back on the road again ?
02:29:58mc2739the unbrickable e200v2 is still unbrickable
02:30:50funmanhave you checked the forum ? I continued this morning and now i can successfully hijack the OF on my Clip (with some little problems though, but i'm still able to recover)
02:31:16mc2739yes, i saw - good work
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02:32:30funmanbut I found nothing interesting yet (i'm looking again at the state/value of gpio registers because my first test was wrong)
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02:35:15saratogafuman: were you able to look at the voltage settings in the AMS chip built into the bigger AMS chip?
02:35:16funmanmc2739: your problem of yesterday seems like the same I had today
02:36:04funmansaratoga: if you mean with a multimeter, no I didn't look - since I have none and wouldn't know how to use it safely
02:36:28funmanI think fdinel is more the man to do that
02:37:15mc2739funman: were you able to recover?
02:37:36saratogafunman: I think they reused the power management chip from the v1 series built into the V2
02:37:36saratogaif so, you can read out which supplies are turned on and off via i2c
02:37:38saratogathough i don't have the datasheet handy so i can't check
02:37:56funmanyes, I just have weird behaviours, like not the same effect across a reboot with the same button state
02:38:12funmansaratoga: I dumped the 0x40 registers from the i2c bus, but nothing interesting in there
02:39:04saratogaso you know that all the correct voltages are being supplied, you know all the internal CPU registers, and you know the SD controller registers
02:39:12saratogai wander what else could possibly matter
02:41:23saratogai guess all needed clocks are being supplied too?
02:41:40funmanthey are - but I still don't understand why the OF enables IDE & MEMSTICK clocks
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02:42:16funmanI tried reading from the IDE & MEMSTICK base addresses but the system crashed so there's probably nothing here
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02:42:35funmanand the IDE/MEMSTICK clocks would be bind to the pl180
02:42:36saratogayou said they added the extra SD controller right?
02:42:50funmanwell there is already a pl180 in the as3525
02:42:56saratogamaybe they reused some unneeded clocks/voltages
02:43:04saratogaoh i misunderstood then
02:43:19funmanmaybe they added another one, or somehow use only one ..
02:43:40funmanno I think they are 2, because there is 2 different base addresses used with the pl180 driver
02:45:09funmanhm .. my code "crashes" just before displaying the results - I know it runs because the button led blinks
02:47:57funmanthe OF enables the DMA module, I didn't look at this area yet (I think it's unrelated)
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03:11:21funmanthe gpio registers are all set to input
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03:14:29funmanIDE & MEMSTICK are on the AHB, while NAND/SD are on the APB
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03:19:27funmanhum the i2c uses '7-bit addressing' (0 ->0x3f) and 'sub-addressing'
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03:20:46funmanhum the 'sub-address' register is where we write the '7-bit address' arlready ..
03:21:07funmanthe slave address is 0x46, wonder what that means
03:23:31funmanthe OF seems to only use this one
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03:39:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:12:46funmanoh the exit logo is different between m300.bin & m300a.bin (a shows 'goodbye')
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04:39:44Bawitdaba`there a reason it takes sooooo long to shut off rockbox
04:39:57Bawitdaba`takes like 15-20s its crazzy
04:40:16saratoga10mine only takes a second or two
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04:50:19mib_32k5qp1qwhat kind of roms can i put on rockbox 3
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05:16:37soapgame boy, game boy color
05:16:52soaporiginal pacman roms
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07:29:59JdGordonmake bin is broken :(
07:31:37JdGordonbut a full make seems to do much less work now if not much changed :)
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08:22:30J-23Is PayPal only way to donate Rockbox?
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08:24:47BHSPitMonkeyThe devs really prefer large shipments of flowers
08:25:02BHSPitMonkeyas ornate as possible
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08:25:55rinabubHello, does rockbox cripple the life of the iaudio x5?
08:27:10scorchewhat would make you say that?
08:27:19BHSPitMonkeyyou mean battery life?
08:27:26rinabubsorry yes battery life
08:28:03scorchewith rockbox, you should get more battery life
08:28:22rinabuboh cool
08:28:41rinabubhow many hours about, if you know?
08:28:55scorchethere are runtime tests in the wiki
08:29:35rinabubokay thanks
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08:33:10 Join Zagor [0] (n=bjorn@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
08:34:08JdGordonmorning Zagor, make bin is broken... the bitmaps arnt built :(
08:36:04 Quit HBK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:38:41Zagorahh right, I removed that to avoid a second pass through the bitmap makefiles. re-adding...
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09:00:13funmanbertrik: have you looked at the SD card init procedure (a specific function) in the OF yet ?
09:00:40bertrikI think I've seen it but got lost
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09:00:47funmanyeah it's confusing :)
09:01:12funmanI dumped the whole structure used by the SD code, but this function is too complex for humans
09:01:48funmansomehow they play with the frequency (switching from/to 200kHz and 20MHz) and the bit 6 (opendrain) of MMC_POWER
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09:02:22funmanweird since the SD spec requires the clock to be between 100kHz & 400kHz during the whole init procedure
09:05:54funmani still don't get what is opendrain exactly (i have trouble with electrics) but from what I read it's something we care only for MMC, not SD
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09:13:58TheArchitectAnyone home?
09:14:21TheArchitectI could use some help.
09:14:22GodEateryes lots of us
09:14:48 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
09:15:43TheArchitectFor some reason, new tracks I'm adding to iPod nano 1st gen with rockbox 3.0 on it aren't showing up anywhere. Yet when I plug it back in, the tracks are there. Is this some kind of bug or did I screw up somehow?
09:15:57GodEaterhow are you adding them ?
09:16:01bertrikfunman, I know what opendrain is, but have to go now
09:16:10TheArchitectVia WinAmp. Should I use iTunes?
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09:17:01GodEaterTheArchitect: so you're using Rockbox's database to browse the content on your ipod ?
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09:18:00TheArchitectWhat do you mean? Like I'm using the Rockbox firmware to look through my mp3s that I have loaded? If so, then yes I am.
09:18:37saratogahes asking if you're using the file browser or database
09:18:51TheArchitectSorry. A bit slow tonight. Headahce.
09:19:34GodEaterand have you updated the Rockbox database after loading this new music onto your iPod ?
09:19:59TheArchitectI thought I did. Though I assumed it just updated itself.
09:20:28GodEaterI suggest doing it again to make sure.
09:20:59TheArchitectAlright. Um. How? I'm completely new to this so.
09:21:04linuxstbThe manual describes how to enable "auto-update", I don't think it's on by default.
09:21:13TheArchitectAh. Alright.
09:21:17TheArchitectI'll look into it then.
09:21:49GodEaterlinuxstb: doesn't it also rely on dircache (perhaps other things) ?
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09:22:37TheArchitectBrb. Let me search the manual.
09:22:47linuxstbGodEater: I'm not sure if that's still the case, but the manual should describe it.
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09:28:17TheArchitectI think I got it.
09:28:46TheArchitectThough it's rather confusing. I updated the id3 tags before I loaded them on and yet they reverted to the orignal ones.
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09:31:03TheArchitectThis may seem like a stupid question but is there a simplifed noobs guide to this thing? Haha.
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09:33:36GodEaterThe manual *is* the simplified guide.
09:34:19linuxstbTheArchitect: Doing an "Initialize Now" will delete the current database and create a new one from scratch, so it will pick up any changes in the tags.
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09:35:17TheArchitectHa. Figures. And I did that. Like I said though, I updated the tags of the files in WinAmp after I loaded them in. Yet they reverted to their old tags.
09:35:57TheArchitectFor example: I loaded some Brand New on here. I changed the genre tag from General Punk to Alternative. Yet now that it's found the files, it's reverted them back to General Punk.
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09:35:58saratogapresumably you didn't really update the tags then
09:36:35ZagorTheArchitect: sounds like you updated the tags on the files on your pc rather than the copies on your player
09:36:38TheArchitectBut I did. I know I did. I selected the tracks in WinAmp, told it to send it to my iPod, then I updated the tags from there.
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09:40:36TheArchitectAlright, I'm in WinAmp right now looking at the tracks on my iPod. It has the updated tags. I don't get why Rockbox isn't showing it though.
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09:42:47funmanperhaps you have 2 tags (id3v1 & id3v2) ?
09:43:37*GodEater can't imagine why you'd only want to update the tags on the iPod. You want your music in sync surely ?
09:44:21TheArchitectI do want it in sync. I don't get how to make Rockbox work right though. I've read through the manual three times now and I'm no closer.
09:45:12GodEaterso why not update the tags on the files on your PC, and THEN upload them to the iPod ?
09:45:47TheArchitectAlright. We'll try it.
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10:16:35JdGordonlinuxstb: can you try out 9525 and see if its an improvement?
10:18:35linuxstbJdGordon: I would have expected the the context menu to be on the setting, rather than on the options inside the setting, as it applies to the whole setting.
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10:19:24JdGordonyeah, probably.. but then the reset doesnt really fit in there
10:20:43JdGordonarg, back in 20
10:21:09linuxstbIt could - it's more of a whole-setting feature, than a particular item. And the context menu is all about doing something with the currently selected item.
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10:44:49funmanoh it seems that in the Clip OF, a first attempt to init the SD card fails, and a second one succeeds
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10:48:43JdGordonlinuxstb: also, having it on the menu means some things will have a context menu and some/(most maybe even) wont and there wont be any real indication why
10:50:25linuxstbIf the "reset to default" option is moved to the context menu, then they will all have it. But I don't see it as a problem if it's not available - it indicates that you can't do anything with that setting.
10:55:15JdGordonhaving the reset outside of the option screen sounds odd to me though
10:55:24JdGordonanyone else have an idea?
10:55:41kugelfunman: it fails on the first try? sounds weird
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10:57:47kugelinternet is so slow here :S
10:59:26linuxstbJdGordon: I agree it feels a bit strange, but I would argue it's more logical than the current reset method
11:00:08*linuxstb also thinks we need other people to comment
11:00:24JdGordonna, 2 is a quarum
11:02:03JdGordonputing it in the menu has one last possible problem.. if we ever let regular menu items setup their own context menus things could get wierd
11:02:10JdGordonbut I dont really see that happening
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11:02:49*JdGordon looks at the code and realises that already happens as a hack for the root menu
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11:13:00linuxstbfunman: So you've been attempting to duplicate the init that fails?
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11:22:50funmanlinuxstb: well it call 2 times the same function
11:23:06linuxstbWith the same parameters?
11:23:18funmanno, this is why I recognized it was the 2nd call which succeeded
11:23:30funmanbut the difference is not very interesting
11:23:48funmanmore what it does in between
11:23:49linuxstbMaybe both are needed for some reason?
11:24:31funmanbetween the 2 calls it sets pin d7 to 1 and bit 7 of mmc_power (rod)
11:25:04funmanit's a bit messy, there is (disabled) support for MMC protocol
11:25:05saratogasome kind of reset/initialization?
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11:25:42funmanif you have the disassembly of a sansav2 firmware I can show you where it is
11:26:14funmanit's like: 1/ init the devices clocks and interrupts, setup 'the' structure
11:26:22funman2/ init the controller, init the card (fails)
11:26:33n1slinuxstb, B4gder: It turns out that changing buildzip to really build the .rockbox dir in the right place for the sim from the start is more work than i am motivated to do and with my small change to make buildzip cp the dir instead of using any zip/tar whatever works well. A full install this way is about twice as fast on my system ~14s -> ~6s and an install without all the fints take about 1 second
11:26:56funman3/ set pin d7 (while gpiod is not meant to be functional, because the xpd pins are set to sdmci interface), set bit7 of mmcpower
11:27:02funman4/ init the controller, init the card (succeeds)
11:27:20linuxstbn1s: I wouldn't argue against committing your changes. Have you addded a "nofonts" install option?
11:27:23B4gdern1s: let's save that piece of the job for Mr Somone
11:27:37*B4gder is officially incapable of spelling
11:28:54JdGordonshouldnt we have a actualy Mr. Someone todo list on the wiki?
11:28:58n1slinuxstb: yes, a "make install" now installs everything that would be in a regular zip (includes the fonts used by the included themes) and "make fullinstall" includes all themes
11:30:22linuxstbn1s: Sounds good. I agree with B4gder that doing it directly in is a job that can be postponed for later...
11:30:37n1sok, I'll go ahead then
11:31:26linuxstbI guess the documentation needs updating (wherever it is...) to say that users should do a "make fullinstall" first, then "make install" subsequently.
11:32:24linuxstbOh, and the "make help" text, if you haven't done it already.
11:33:47n1smake help is done, anyone know of other places than UiSimulator ?
11:34:54*amiconn had an idea that will hopefully speed up division on armv4 :)
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11:35:39linuxstbn1s: Searching for "make install" in the wiki search box (with quotes) gives a couple of pages.
11:35:44JdGordonwhat does install skip that fullinstall does?
11:36:05linuxstbJust fonts I think.
11:36:15linuxstb(fonts not used by the default theme)
11:36:32n1ssame difference as between make zip and make fullzip
11:36:57linuxstbamiconn: Significantly?
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11:40:22*JdGordon hits the dev ml unless anyone else has an opinion on 9525?
11:43:46 Quit J-23 ("Flying cow pressed ^D on my keyboard.")
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11:46:12JdGordonok people... spit out as many "Mr Someone"
11:46:18JdGordontodo items as you can tihnk of...
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11:50:19JdGordonfine then... /me creates MrSomeonesTodoList to give new comers an idea of what to do to get started
11:52:18n1sah I thought you wanted us to add them to the wiki
11:53:15funmanthat's open source spirit :)
11:53:55*n1s has a few ideas for that list...
11:54:15JdGordonwell, i was going to add them myself, but got impatient :p
11:54:44*JdGordon looks at the timestamps and hides
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11:55:05*n1s thinks it should have the usual "This is _not_ a general wishlist for users" thingy at the top, in size 50, red and blinking
11:55:32n1sJdGordon: 4 minutes is plenty of time :)
11:55:42*B4gder thinks such a list is very hard to keep up-to-date and accurate and will soon be another pointless wiki page
11:56:10JdGordonwhy? mr someone only gets the things which arnt likely to happen any time soon
11:56:25B4gderyou think?
11:56:37B4gderI think it'll get a verifying bunch
11:56:43B4gdervarying even
11:56:55JdGordonone way to find out...
11:57:05n1sI think it is good to have a list of things that are more or less agreed upon would be good things to do but no one is about to do them, to not for get good ideas etc.
11:57:07B4gderyes sure
11:57:19JdGordonworst case is when someone sees something which has already been done they can remove it
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11:58:06B4gderI'm not arguing about that it could be useful
11:59:06*Llorean suggested an "official feature requests"-type page some time ago, actually.
11:59:31n1sso this is the informal official fr page then!
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11:59:50*gevaerts proposes adding "Keep the MrSomeonesTodoList page updated" to MrSomeonesTodoList
12:00:12linuxstbn1s: Yes, I've also suggested that in the past. I would put things like multi-font, bmp resizing, jpeg album-art on that page. I even started such a page, for WPS-related features -
12:00:20JdGordonLlorean: the problem with that is users think they are free to add their own requests
12:00:40LloreanJdGordon: And they don't with any other page?
12:00:41linuxstbOr rather, Llorean started that page ;)
12:01:32LloreanIf you name the page "OfficialWantedFeatures" or something, it makes it clear that they're officially wanted, and what the page is about anyway.
12:01:54JdGordonok, but still these 2 lists dont have to overlap
12:02:00linuxstbOr something like this at the top - "This page describes features that are considered by the developers to be desirable for future versions of Rockbox, and the current state of their implementation."
12:02:18JdGordonmy list is more techincal changes (probably)
12:03:28*JdGordon cant tihnk of many things that would go in OfficialWantedFeatures apart from bmp resize and multi font
12:04:30n1sIt sort of depends on how you define a feature
12:05:45LloreanIt could also be OfficiallyWantedPatches
12:06:28LloreanThen you don't have any question of "Is it a feature or not?"
12:08:15skipperis there any way or tutorial for animated themes?
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12:09:46JdGordonit can be done, one of the included themes does it
12:10:07robin0800JdGordon: charging and usb file transfers for portal players wanted /needed?
12:10:09JdGordondancepuffduo has little dancing icons on the wps
12:10:23JdGordonrobin0800: na, bloody useless...
12:10:27JdGordonof course we want that!
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12:11:22skipperthx, iam trying something... :)
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12:13:36Lloreanrobin0800: Those are *mostly* done anyway, it's just the remaining bugs in them that need fixing.
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12:17:33kugeln1s: good job. you got r19000
12:17:48n1sooh, didn't notice :)
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12:19:43*n1s wonders where that red came from
12:20:09kugelfunman: how did you find the keyscan matrix? by looking in the disassembly?
12:20:36funmankugel: it was found by atomikpunk, not me; but yes he found by reading the disassembly
12:22:09linuxstbn1s: Weird...
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12:22:57n1shmm, a player build stops with *** No rule to make target `/home/nils/rockbox/firmware/export/id3.h', needed by `/home/nils/rockbox/playbuild/apps/plugins/shortcuts/shortcuts_common.o'. Stop. here ever with r18999, Zagor?
12:22:59preglowJdGordon: are you proposing to add a context menu for every menu item containing the option "add to quickscreen" ?
12:23:24*n1s facepalms, should make clean
12:24:41n1safter make clean a player build builds fine here
12:24:56n1sboth with r18999 and r19000
12:25:47n1slostlogic: ping
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12:31:09Nico_Pn1s: sim make install is awesomely fast now, thanks :)
12:31:26linuxstbpreglow: Yes, that's the proposal.
12:31:35n1sNico_P: great :)
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12:42:27JdGordonpreglow: not every item... only settings have the context menu, and only ones which are ok to put on the screen will have the 3 options
12:42:34JdGordonotherwsie they will have just "reset setting"
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13:03:33*funman is lost in the recursive isrs with multiple functions with static & non static variables, wrapping or not counters, ..
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13:16:21JdGordonarnt recursive isrs really bad?
13:17:55funmani would think that yes, but it appears to work fine
13:19:21B4gderrecursive? you mean as in one occurs while the previous isr was executed?
13:19:27mc2739has anyone noticed that the IRC log webpage has nothing after 00:31?
13:20:06Zagormc2739: it does, but some browsers are having problems with the live-updating page
13:20:11JdGordonis that when saratoga broke it?
13:20:26funmani can't say for the exact timing, but the isr calls a function which will provoke an interrupt, which will call a function ..
13:21:11funmanyes that's it
13:21:17B4gderbut the next isr doesn't usually trigger until the prev is cleared
13:21:18mc2739must be, saratoga's was the last entry
13:21:20funmansome problem with −−Delimiter Content/Type ..
13:21:49funmanB4gder: I thought 'clear' doesn't neccessarily mean 'the isr has returned'
13:22:18mc2739Zagor: ah, let me try with ie
13:22:21B4gderno, it can't mean that
13:23:27B4gderstill, it most likely won't call the isr again until the previous one is done
13:23:30mc2739ie works , firefox 3 doesn't
13:25:25funmanB4gder: i look more carefully and you are right, the interrupts are disabled by the isr until it returns
13:25:56funmanso this asynchronous model makes it harder to understand :/
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13:32:17J-23do the e200v2's really have only 8MB of RAM?
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13:35:23funmanhello dany_21a_
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13:37:31dany_21a_hi funman
13:37:51funmando you have your e200 back ?
13:38:15dany_21a_good work, with the injection of the branch-to-RB-loader-from-OF, just read the forum
13:38:31dany_21a_na... e200 is dead :/ - fuze is orderd (amazon) :)
13:39:03dany_21a_has anybody checked if the fuze also has that direct flash-access over usb (recovery-mode)?
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13:39:39funmankugel tried I guess (unsuccessfully)
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13:40:12funmanby the way I just found something: the 'init_card' function is called 2 times in the OF, and the 1st call fails
13:40:20J-23dany_21a_: what happened to your e200?
13:40:41funmanthat narrows a bit the area to look for the right setting
13:42:44dany_21a_J-23: i actually dont know - it currently has the dualboot RB loader on it and can load the RB-FW and the OF... if i connect it to the USB it just powers up, but dmesg stays calm (always the same in rescue mode, OF and where ever)...looks like something in the USB-Datapath is broken
13:43:42dany_21a_funman: maybe if you find how to connect to the sansa over jtag i could flash some mp3's on it and still use it (with OF) as a mp3 player
13:44:01funmandany_21a_: do you have a jtag adaptor?
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13:44:46dany_21a_only a homebuild which i build for the e200 and so i never could check if it is working :)
13:45:03funmanwhy ? if it's still powered there is no reason
13:45:13dany_21a_(one without any active components... a wiggler compatible)
13:45:45preglowJdGordon: definitely makes more sense than the long list
13:45:57dany_21a_it never worked with my e200 (so i dont know if the jtag adapter is the problem, or the software, or the e200 or ... or or
13:46:13dany_21a_note: the e200 has no description of the pins on the PCB
13:46:14JdGordonpreglow: but the extra menu? feels wierd
13:46:22preglowhaven't tried
13:46:32preglowbut if it feels weird, it's prolly not right
13:46:51JdGordonfeel is probably the wrong word
13:46:58preglowi wish os x would stop spewing dot files everywhere
13:47:01preglowgod how i hate it
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13:51:29*J-23 forgot that he has e200 :D
13:51:46funmanbut it seems he didn't test this layout
13:52:17J-23did anybody make JTAG on e200v2 working?
13:52:42dany_21a_funman: i know that... but it is not sure where it came from (where just posted in the forum without further explanation)
13:53:45dany_21a_i have checked that layout... that pictures are actually done by myself - also shows my JTAG adapter
13:55:30dany_21a_but it might be correct... as i said, i dont know if my JTAG is actually working at all
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13:58:11funmani have ordered an adaptor, i hope i can use it even if i don't have your electronic skills
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13:59:21NotADJHello, world!
13:59:27 Nick J-23 is now known as world (
13:59:30NotADJ<3 Rockbox
13:59:31worldhello, NotADJ
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14:00:13NotADJI'm just waiting for all my music to be added, then I will have a fully-functional jukebox.
14:00:20NotADJWithout the DRM and restrictions.
14:01:36NotADJI made my Linux Partition too small :/
14:03:07J-23Are there any problems with implementing USB OTG in Rockbox?
14:03:07 Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
14:03:10funmandany_21a_: did you try to add a resistor like atomikpunk ?
14:03:38NotADJI miss Compiz
14:04:00funmanNotADJ: please can you stay on topic ?
14:04:12J-23NotADJ: speak not Rockbox-related things at #rockbox-community, not here
14:04:39B4gderJ-23: no problems other than the implementation and in some targets a lack of docs
14:05:18NotADJ:), Sorry.
14:05:21funmandany_21a_: I was referring to
14:05:28NotADJWell, anywaym where can I get a theme.
14:05:37J-23and what's bad with current USB (hardware) support?
14:06:33NotADJCan I install multiple themes at onec?
14:07:12J-23NotADJ: of course you can
14:07:13linuxstbThere are two types of USB hardware in Rockbox devices - hardware USB<->ATA bridge chips (which do all the work in hardware, and are fully supported in Rockbox), and generic USB interfaces which require Rockbox to do the hard work. That kind are not supported.
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14:07:31J-23and how can I help with them?
14:09:35linuxstbWrite drivers, write higher-level usb code, find/fix the bugs in existing code, ...
14:14:26J-239_9_9 :p
14:19:55B4gderis lostlogic's build server borked?
14:20:35B4gderwe got a red build
14:20:43*GodEater engages psychic powers
14:20:57*linuxstb waits...
14:21:16*GodEater gets a nose bleed
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14:22:31*GodEater decides it would be safer to just ask lostlogic
14:22:50JdGordongevaerts: whats the story with usb on portal player? is it only the sansas with data corruption problems?
14:23:10GodEaterJdGordon: I've certainly never seen it on my iPod
14:23:24gevaertsNo. Also the timing issue that's visible with hubs
14:23:41amiconnJdGordon: The data corruption problem is sansa only. It's not related to usb at all, but rather to the SD driver
14:24:29amiconnThe (presumable) timing issue affects all PP targets - frequent resets and hence slow to impossible transfer especially via hubs
14:24:47JdGordonso its only the timing issue holding it back? why not enable it with the warning that some hubs just wont work?
14:24:49amiconnThe usb code itself works fine - never had a problem with it on the beast so far
14:25:16amiconnJdGordon: It's not just hubs, it can affect all sorts of connections.
14:25:35amiconnHubs just make it more severe, as do front ports (often)
14:25:57*GodEater always connects via front ports, and is yet to see an issue =/
14:26:16*JdGordon didnt realise the beast was using the rockbox usb code
14:26:25JdGordonI do have trouble with the beast and my front ports..
14:26:37*amiconn once had the usb stack enabled, and disabled it again because the stalls due to excessive resets were unbearable
14:30:21advcomp2019i remember someone saying it was both.. i will need to up that person then
14:31:16JdGordonis there anything we can really do abotut the timing issue? (without proper datasheets)
14:31:28funmansleep() everywhere ?
14:31:29*gevaerts thinks
14:31:44gevaertsThe PP can be clocked higher than 80MHz, right?
14:32:32gevaertsDo we know that the various OFs run at 80MHz, or do they run at different speeds?
14:34:43 Part LinusN
14:35:48preglowvarious speeds
14:35:50preglowdepending on format, they say
14:36:20preglowit was/is apparently possible to make an ipod skip if a vbr file changed bitrate suddenly
14:36:30preglowso they probably don't do the overkill buffering we do either
14:37:00gevaertsMaybe it's worth trying to go a bit over 80MHz to see what happens to USB
14:37:14preglowwhy would it have an impact?
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14:38:22gevaertsOne possible reason for the issues would be not getting the data to the controller in time
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14:39:16gevaertsAlthough I admit that it's pretty close to voodoo debugging
14:39:24n1sis the controller running as fast as it can then? maybe there's some divider or something to set for it?
14:39:40B4gdergevaerts: I'm sure we can sponsor you with a doll and needles from the fund!
14:40:06*B4gder encourages voodoo
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14:54:32preglowi encourage crazy and far out voodoo
14:55:01preglowwe'll neat goats, a grott, an assortment of weird dolls and plenty of scented oils
14:55:38preglowi suggest spending the rockbox fund on sending gevaerts to haiti
14:56:32*n1s is prepared to join gevaerts to haiti to assist in the voodoo rituals
14:56:47B4gderdevcon 2009 on haiti!
14:56:49preglowjust don't skimp on the signing of diabolical agreements, please
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14:57:24LambdaCalculus37B4gder: Make sure you have plenty of voodoo ingredients! ;)
14:58:48preglowi happen to have some dead bodies in my closet you can have if you wish
14:59:06preglowi'll affix them with gps trackers and send them off the pier
14:59:32preglowin rockbox shirts, of course
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15:02:14preglowbut yeah, where are we with usb? only issue left is resets with hubs and other signal degrading conditions?
15:02:48n1spreglow: so it seems
15:03:46n1sI wonder if anyone tried disassembling the emergency disk mode image from an ipod to see wht they do?
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15:07:51preglowi guess so
15:07:55preglowbut it's plenty of code
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15:14:16linuxstbOnly about 50KB IIRC...
15:14:53n1sif we take a KB each it will go fast!
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15:18:10*B4gder spots n1s did the r19K commit
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15:18:29preglowlinuxstb: yeah, i also thought that when i first sawit :P
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15:19:13*n1s wonders if people will rush to get 20k
15:19:58*gevaerts has about 1000 whitespace cleanup commits waiting
15:21:20n1sgo for it!
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15:22:41n1s18k was on july 9 so about 4 months for 1000 commits
15:23:45J-23why we need to disassemble v2 firmware?
15:24:00n1sJ-23: to know what it does
15:24:10Lloreann1s: If we can shorten that to about 2 months, we can make 20k be our 3.1 commit.
15:24:52n1sLlorean: if we branch early we have to make each commit twice so it might be possible :P
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15:25:29linuxstbI thought a three-monthly release cycle was decided at devcon?
15:25:38crash91I was looking at "Mr. Someone's Todo list" and noticed "Theme site", does it mean the web pages themselves, or the hosting etc?
15:26:13linuxstbcrash91: The web pages themselves.
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15:26:46crash91Right, I'll attempt to do it then.
15:26:55Lloreanlinuxstb: Yes, approximately every three months
15:29:25linuxstbLlorean: 3.0 just seems much longer ago than a month...
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15:30:07crash91B4gder: =/ I dont do PHP, I can do HTML and CSS..
15:30:24 Part NotADJ
15:30:43B4gderwell, this site can't be built with just html and css
15:30:53preglowany point in doing a release when not much has happened?
15:31:09kronfluxLambdaCalculus37: ahoy there!
15:31:54LambdaCalculus37kronflux: Hi there!
15:32:13Lloreanlinuxstb: It is a bit longer than that, but not too much. 9/23 according to the news.
15:32:31crash91B4gder: I guess I'll forget about it then
15:33:19Lloreanpreglow: No point, necessarily, but no reason not to since it's another short freeze for bug fixing, and another "stable" build for users, which is nice to have a "recent" stable around in case anything goes wrong with -dev builds.
15:33:59linuxstbpreglow: If we do releases at all, I'm in favour of sticking to a strict regular timetable. There's always going to be something that happened, even if it's not that exciting.
15:34:27linuxstbOtherwise, there's a danger of just slipping, and the most recent release becoming too old.
15:35:15*linuxstb would be happy with December 23rd as a release date - so people who have free time over Christmas aren't held back by a feature freeze
15:35:17 Quit kachna (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:39:39kronfluxLambdaCalculus37: hows it been going?
15:39:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:41:23LambdaCalculus37kronflux: A little slow with the 2g nano. I've done an objdump of the firmware and am trying to study it a little bit.
15:42:14LambdaCalculus37It's quite large, even when tar-gzipped (~90MB .tgz versus 254MB uncompressed)
15:42:36kronfluxlearned anything new or interesting, or useful?
15:43:48preglowdecember 23 would be cool :P
15:44:26LambdaCalculus37kronflux: That only the "apud" in the firmware is encrypted, it seems. That's the "Apple Update" portion of the firmware.
15:44:42n1slinuxstb: fire away a mail to the dev ml and suggest that, with a freeze ~2 weeks before and i don't think anyone will be against that and we have a firm date set
15:45:26Lloreann1s: It could just happen like last time. A few of us in here say "Should we be freezing now?", a bit of nodding goes around, the channel topic changes, and that's that. :-P
15:45:58n1sLlorean: i think we can try to be a bit more organized this time :)
15:46:05LloreanIt'd be nice, surely. :)
15:46:27LloreanFreeze on the 9th, release on the 23rd, of months divisible by three?
15:46:28LambdaCalculus37A nice Xmas gift for Rockboxers. :)
15:49:24preglowLlorean: haha, yeah, remember that
15:49:33preglowme: freeze!
15:49:36preglowllorean: why, yes!
15:49:59preglowneeded doing :P
15:50:10LloreanIndeed, and it got done.
15:51:00linuxstbDid we branch at the same time as freezing? Or rather, do we want to in future? We could have "freeze on the 9th, branch on the 16th, release on the 23rd" ?
15:51:22Lloreanlinuxstb: That sounds good to me.
15:51:59linuxstbMaybe picking a specific day of the week would be better than "9th, 16th, 23rd", but I'm not sure what...
15:52:18J-23What's currently main task on e200v2's?
15:52:32LloreanI like specific dates. Saying "The first tuesday" or whatever always just seems more complicated to me.
15:53:13 Quit kachna|lappy (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
15:54:54linuxstbLlorean: I agree it will be simpler. I'm just writing an email now...
15:56:33 Quit funman ("leaving")
15:59:39*linuxstb has sent the mail
16:01:16*amiconn would prefer the next freeze not before 20090101
16:01:51linuxstbamiconn: Why?
16:04:53*B4gder thinks the proposed plan sounds great
16:05:52NotlisteningJ-23: umm think they are trying to get internal SD card access at the moment and maybe some button mappings
16:07:09Notlisteningthey have the bootloader working and the lcd code and i am sure they have some of the button mappings but not sure if they have all of them
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16:18:26J-23can anybody tell me step-by-step firmware disassembling procedure? I forgot it
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16:20:02linuxstbJ-23: If someone told you here, then it will be in the IRC logs.
16:24:06mickpettigrewHey guys I was wondering if there was a way I could collect data about the tracks played (eg time of track being played, how long track was played for, how long track is etc) on an ipod mini g1 using rockbox. Does rockbox log this data anyway?
16:25:21LambdaCalculus37Not that I know of, but we do have logging.
16:25:34linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: Isn't that the same thing?
16:26:00LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: You may be right, but I don't use logging. :P
16:26:27mickpettigrewthanks very much mate, I'll have a look
16:36:22J-23is arm_disass.exe binary available somewhere?
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16:41:12linuxstbJ-23: That won't help you with the Sansa V2 firmwares - they are mostly thumb code, and arm_disass doesn't support thumb.
16:41:21wpyhB4gder: I'm building outside the source tree, and now it complains "cannot access /home/william/rockbox/build/a/notmal/apps/lang/*"
16:41:50J-23I only asked because there's "arm_disass.exe" in makefile
16:42:01linuxstbIn which makefile?
16:42:18B4gderwpyh: and where is the source root?
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16:42:28wpyhthe source root is at /home/william/rockbox/svn
16:42:32B4gderand did you re-configure?
16:42:40wpyhI'm building in /home/william/rockbox/build/a/normal
16:42:56wpyhyes, I reconfigured −− which is why I mistyped "normal" as "notmal" :p
16:43:07wpyh(it's a new directory, I just mkdir'ed it)
16:43:39B4gderdo are the dirs in the generated Makefile in your build dir ok?
16:44:58wpyhlet me check
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16:47:48wpyhB4gder: it builds fine now −− I don't know what went wrong. weird...
16:48:34B4gderI forgot to tell, but I pressed my magic button here
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16:55:54wpyhB4gder: I found that actually the only assumption for rootdir is that "configure" lives as rootdir/<somedir>/configure
16:56:14B4gderI realized that too
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17:12:01Notlisteningquestion on cue files and similar, does rockbox support large file indexing and how is there more than one way to index differening file formats
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17:13:23Notlisteningthe question related to Daisy audio books and writing a tools that uses the XML markup to generate a file that can be indexed
17:13:35LloreanNotlistening: Rockbox does not support the Daisy format.
17:13:55LloreanEverything Rockbox supports *should* be described in the manual.
17:14:17kugelthe irc log bugs
17:14:28Notlisteningyup got that but i am writing a tool to convert to somthing else it does
17:14:40kugelon firefox3 at least
17:15:02LloreanNotlistening: So, what *exactly* is the question then? I think cue support is described in the manual.
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17:17:13NotlisteningWell it was about the differing formats ie MP3 Ogg Flac mp4 and what method of cue like behaviour you can get with each
17:17:36LloreanI don't understand what you're asking.
17:17:42Llorean.cue files are a separate file.
17:17:51NotlisteningJust after some key workds to do some research on google
17:17:53LloreanThere's no "cue-like" behaviour.
17:17:54LloreanThere's cue files.
17:18:27Notlisteningand cue files work for all formats?
17:18:36LloreanAll formats you can seek in, yes.
17:19:08LloreanWhich should be, at this time, any format you can record voice in that Rockbox supports.
17:19:28Notlisteningright and in MP4 there is not another technique?
17:20:07LloreanDoes the Rockbox manual describe supporting other techniques?
17:20:24Notlisteningllol let me read ;)
17:20:42Notlisteningthanks anyway
17:20:45LloreanWell, the channel guidelines tell you to read it first.
17:23:41*markun still hasn't read the guidelines..
17:24:22LloreanWell, at the very least, knowing someone has read the manual gives you a common basis for terms, etc.
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17:35:36J-23how can I help with hacking USB on v1 Sansas?
17:35:40J-23(and probably other players based on same PortalPlayer chip)
17:35:59gevaertsJ-23: pick something that's missing, and work on it.
17:36:09B4gdertry it out, fix bugs you find
17:36:37J-23is it described somewhere what's bad with it?
17:36:41LloreanDisassemble the OF and see what they do different from us, and figure out which of those are important?
17:38:13LloreanJ-23: On the Sansas there are, I believe (unless the situation changed and I missed it) two major holdups, whereas other PP targets only have one.
17:38:19LloreanThe common one is signal quality issues.
17:38:30LloreanThe Sansa-specific one is an issue with the SD storage that can cause data corruption.
17:38:42NotlisteningRTFM ;) jk
17:39:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:40:07*J-23 doesn't understand how SD can affect on USB
17:40:24J-23how can I disassemble it? Same like v2 firmware or any other firmware?
17:40:31LloreanJ-23: When you transfer files over, they still need to get written to "disk", right?
17:41:12J-23Llorean: probabl
17:41:29LloreanSo, assuming you're writing to storage, how could the storage driver *not* be an important factor?
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17:42:49J-23thanks, now I understand
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17:43:22J-23does it happen only if I'm copying files to SD or even if I'm copying to internal memory?
17:45:12LloreanThe internal memory is accessed via an SD interface.
17:47:00NotlisteningLlorean: I think i got enough of my answer from google (not much in the manual, had to check as i had to read throught it for a bit), cue will provide a way to do what i want.
17:48:35Notlisteninganyone have any inspiration other than writing a plugin that uses voice clips to voice the entries that are held in a cue file?
17:50:31J-23how can I disassemble this firmware?
17:51:36NotlisteningDataRescue IDA Pro Advanced v5.2
17:51:49Notlisteningmight help ;)
17:51:58J-23ok, but what part of firmware file should I get?
17:52:02LloreanOr objdump for the appropriate architecture if you don't have access to it.
17:52:07J-23first 512K?
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17:54:45NotlisteningAlso has it been registered that apple have used a similar technique as rockbox for voicing its menus and files?
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17:56:39Notlisteningand with that i am gone tx again
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18:07:30shiftplusoneHello.... I want to be able to delete a file from the HD while it's playing (let it stop 'course) without having to stop it and go through the files menu to find it and so on... couldn't find a patch so I was just wondering.... which files do I need to edit and what functions should I know?
18:07:43shiftplusone(I have a very basic C knowledge)
18:09:08Lloreanshiftplusone: You can already use the menu without stopping playback.
18:09:30LloreanYou can open the context menu directly on the file playing, or you can access the browser and browse to it, without stopping playback.
18:09:56shiftplusoneoh... there's 'delete' right there >.>.... is that form HD or from playlist?
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18:10:10shiftplusonehuh.... well then <.< thanks
18:10:14shiftplusonehas that been there for long?
18:10:24LloreanMany years.
18:10:40shiftplusonehuh, well how about that =/
18:11:35shiftplusonethanks again, can't believe I never noticed it. >_<
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18:18:09DerPapstBagder: there?
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18:29:24DerPapstBagder, Zagor: (whoever is first) This fixes a css issue and doesn't make the live log break in ff if someone repeats saratoga's experiment
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18:48:46amiconnDerPapst: Could you perhaps also fix the remaining bug that the irc reader doesn't store the user's choice to show joins/hides?
18:49:21amiconn'show seconds' and the font seem to be remembered now, but not 'show joins'
18:49:38amiconnHmm, and there's abug with 'show joins'...
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18:50:11*amiconn presumes that's fixed by 9527
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18:53:03gevaertsIs there a shorter and/or more maintainable way to write
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18:54:03preglowamiconn: why postpone feature freeze, btw?
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18:54:40amiconnBecause I doubt that much fixing will happen if we freeze in December
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19:02:59 Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat")
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19:12:44kugeldany_21a_: Hey. Have you made sure it's not the cable (referring to your broken e200)
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19:13:07voldemarHello everybody! Is here any Sansa c100 port programmers?
19:17:12voldemarI need to reset my sansa c150 (or format its partition), tcctool is working... i want to ask do you have any sort of tool/firmware that will format my sansa?
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19:17:26voldemarplayer connects ONLY in recovery mode
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19:20:12linuxstbNo, there's nothing apart from tcctool.
19:20:41linuxstbI assuming that uploading the original firmware with tcctool doesn't help?
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19:27:06voldemarit stucks when it tries to update its BrowseDB
19:27:20voldemari think there's a error in filesystem
19:27:55voldemarbut it doesn't show itself as /dev/sda* while it doesn't stop updating its BrowseDB
19:29:12voldemarbut it will never finish... so the only way is to upload formatting or fsck'ing firmware...
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19:29:37preglowamiconn: yeah, a fair concern
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19:32:30voldemaror returning it to guarantee service...
19:33:25DerPapstamiconn: saving your preferences should be fixed and the bug appearing if you click show joins is addressed in FS #9527
19:33:56amiconnDerPapst: Saving 'show joins' is definitely not working right now
19:34:29DerPapsthmm.. do you allow cokies for
19:34:53amiconnAnd the other choices are saved
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19:39:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:41:06amiconnDerPapst: Hmm, now it works. But it didn't work in the previous try (open irc reader, click 'show joins', close tab, reopen)
19:46:13DerPapstheh ok. but you made me spot a bug in my patch this way. thanks :P
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19:57:49saratogaDerPapst: if you want mroe to do, you could try and figure out why the script doesn't work in google chrome until after the day is overe
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19:59:19amiconnBah, still dependency issues :(
19:59:43*amiconn summons Zagor
20:02:19miziastyhi can anyone tell me where I can obtain Telechips TCC77x datasheets? I have tried forum links and google but all links seem to be dead
20:05:01 Quit mickpettigrew ()
20:05:20voldemarmaybe there
20:05:35voldemarah, 404 :(
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20:06:53miziastyit asks for ID and password when I click on 'datasheet'
20:07:19scorchemiziasty: what is your reason for wanting it?
20:07:46voldemarsansa c150 is built on that chip
20:08:10miziastyactually I'm interested in sansa m200v1
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20:09:24LambdaCalculus37mizaisty: We already have some work done on the m200; check out the source code.
20:10:29*amiconn is starting to hate those Sansa abcNNNvXYZs
20:11:03saratogatheres some datasheets floating around for the tcc chips, but technically we're not supposed to distribute them since telechips didn't mean to post them to their website
20:11:53saratogathe clip and fuze are a step towards sensible sansa naming, though the fact that they already have a V2 clip is ridiculous
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20:13:56miziastyis TCC76x datasheet of any use for m200 development?
20:14:39domonokyfor m200v1 yes, for m200v2 not.. :-)
20:15:03domonokywhich m200v1 version do you have ? (check the firmware version)
20:15:32miziastyfw 2.1.0
20:17:07linuxstbdomonoky: You mean for m200v1, m200v2, and m200v3?
20:17:10domonokythere are 3 different m200v1 players.. :-)
20:17:33LambdaCalculus37The m200 is based on the TCC770, is it not?
20:17:38miziastyit is
20:18:26domonokyaslong as we dont rename the m200v2, it would be m200v1a, m200v1b and m200v1c :-) but maybe we can do runtime detection of the different nand interface...
20:19:05domonokyor maybe m200v1.1, m200v1.2 and m200v1.3 :-)
20:19:09LambdaCalculus37domonoky: That would be the best way of handling. Why make it confusing as hell by offering two (or even three) different builds for the player?
20:19:21linuxstbSandisk offer four different firmwares for the m200s. I think it would be easier to call them v1, v2 and v3, and rename m200v2 to m200v4
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20:20:13pixelmaare other things (like display resolution or button layout) the same among these versions at least?
20:20:29linuxstbI think they're identical physically.
20:20:46domonokyall m200 have the same display and buttonlayout.. even the m200"v2" :-)
20:20:49LambdaCalculus37The only difference AFAIK is how the NAND is accessed.
20:20:52*gevaerts grumbles at storage_spin() and friends
20:21:13LambdaCalculus37And the "v2" is another AS SoC-based player.
20:21:34pixelmaso Sandisk likes to stick to a design but not the technic behind... weird
20:21:55miziastyI have TCC770-based for sure
20:21:56domonokyall m200 ports are nearly in the same stage.. buttons and lcd work, but no NAND access till now..
20:23:09pixelmaless costs than developing something completely new though...
20:23:57gevaertsWhat is storage_disk_is_active() supposed to return on a multi-drive target? It's only used in powermgmt.c
20:24:08LambdaCalculus37pixelma: I imagine that's their reasoning for same physical design but internal reworking.
20:24:27LambdaCalculus37Although I do have to admit that it's confusing as hell sometimes.
20:25:02saratogathey probably update whenever the chip they're using is discontinued
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20:25:54gevaertshm, no. It's also used in apps/
20:25:59miziastyI've read that there were some attempts to read NAND chip id
20:27:38linuxstbmiziasty: AFAIK, the low-level NAND reading works fine, the problem is understanding the wear-levelling algorithm used to store the FAT filesystem - i.e. putting the filesystem back together.
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20:30:32miziastylinuxstb: can't it be reversed from original FW?
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20:33:14*pixelma wonders what domonoky meant ;)
20:34:31*domonoky meant "something fell on my keyboard" :-)
20:34:56linuxstbmiziasty: That's the only option, yes. But only one person is working on it, and it's proving a tough nut to crack.
20:35:25*amiconn hmpfs @ gnu ld, arm longcall & relatives
20:35:53*amiconn could use one single feature of C++ in C now
20:37:29miziastyto access NAND from bootloader I have to hotplug NAND board while the player is connected to USB right?
20:38:09gevaertsamiconn: which one?
20:38:21amiconnOverloading of operators
20:39:10amiconnLooks like I need to introduce a macro for unsigned 32 bit division in libdemac
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20:42:32linuxstbmiziasty: No, you can build a Rockbox bootloader and then use mktccboot to merge it with an original firmware file, and dual-boot into your bootloader code.
20:47:36 Quit obo_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:47:43miziastyhowever I have to reflash with every change in the code, right?
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20:47:54NotADJ<3 Rockbox
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20:49:52LambdaCalculus37miziasty: If you want to test new bootloader code. yes.
20:50:11LambdaCalculus37If you just want to test new build code, then you can just overwrite the build with the new one.
20:51:45*gevaerts grumbles a bit more
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20:58:22amiconnlinuxstb: I was right that the remaining libdemac speed penalty on PP5002 vs. PP502x was due to the very frequently called division routine not being in IRAM
20:59:17markunNotADJ: me too!
20:59:30pixelmacould one of the Swedes rename the "Quickscreen" wiki page to make it a proper wiki word?
21:01:11amiconnI've duplicated the libgcc routine, but in IRAM, and speed is about the same as on PP502x. -c1000: 113% realtime
21:01:46amiconnThis is without any optimisation attempt of the routine itself (but I have an idea that *might* speed things up on armv4)
21:01:55linuxstbamiconn: Nice. So you just created a new function?
21:02:18linuxstbIs the libgcc function in C or asm?
21:02:30amiconnAtm it's a hack - a macro in rangecoder.h that's chosen via #if 0 / #if 1
21:03:19amiconnIt's already quite optimised
21:04:19amiconnThe problem with optimising division is that something that speeds up things for small divisors often doesn't work that well for large divisors and vice versa
21:07:00amiconnFast division routines are both science and black magic...
21:07:06miziastyLambdaCalculus37: where is the build stored then in bootloader scenario? in NAND?
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21:23:15fmlHello. Has the new quick screen feature been discussed and agreed upon? I'm not against it, I'm just trying to understand what (and how) features get accepted or not.
21:24:10gevaertsIf you find out, please let us know :)
21:24:19*bluebrother is interested in that too
21:24:59bluebrotherpersonally I don't think this feature is worth the binsize increase, but I'm not in favour of such a feature anyway
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21:25:46*gevaerts thinks that if you're going to have a quickscreen, having it configurable is good
21:26:34BigBambiI quite like it
21:26:42bluebrotherwell, I asked if it wouldn't be better to replace it with a user menu on the ML ...
21:27:47bluebrotherbut I'm a bit disappointed by the "agreed" on this. Some people liked it, others didn't and most didn't even speak up :/
21:31:56fmlbluebrother: where are the "down! down!" cries then? I think it works like this: if a brave person with commit access does it, chances are good that it's accepted. Just as a matter of fact. But if it's discussed chances are good that it does not get accepted. Because in the discussions, many are quite conservative (this is not necessarly bad).
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21:34:51bluebrotherfml: well, one could start a poll and base the decision on the results. Currently there is kinda a bunch of opinions ...
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21:36:32fmlbluebrother: but the facts always win.
21:37:15bluebrotheryes, but is that the way we want to go?
21:37:22pixelmaI feel a bit guilty for not answering on the ml, I'm not very good at this (yet, only sent a very few mails at all so far). I'm a bit against this but people could argue "well if you don't use the quickscreen how can you tell?", I always forget about the quickscreen's existence and even the configurability won't change that I'm quite sure as there are very very very few options I change (none regularly)
21:37:40bluebrotheras by that means almost every feature could get in
21:37:54bluebrotherit's just someone needing to create the facts.
21:38:35pixelmasomeone could create other facts and revert the commit... ...
21:38:51pixelmait would just be stupid though
21:39:00bluebrotherpixelma: you know that this would only happen for really broken commits ...
21:39:29gevaertsWhy does the clock plugin call storage_sleep() after loading settings?
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21:40:24*gevaerts dislikes unclean code much more than he dislikes a few bytes
21:41:14*bluebrother agrees with gevaerts but still dislikes added bytes too :)
21:41:15pixelmabluebrother: sure and without concensus that could turn into something real silly (kindergarten style)
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21:45:23amiconngevaerts: It does this because there's no need to wait for the spindown timeout to kick in. The plugin isn't going to access the disk any time soon after that
21:45:53amiconnMusic buffering does the same, as does buffering in the video plugins
21:45:54gevaertsamiconn: that's true for lots of plugins though.
21:46:06fmlbluebrother: whether we want or not, we already go this way. What's not good about it is IMO that people whose patches do not get accepted see other features go in without much discussion and bringing bin size with them. Then they feel treated like second sort. And then they quit.
21:46:51amiconngevaerts: I don't see why this is a problem.... it's a good thing, although not absolutely needed if it's just the settings loading
21:47:56fmlI.e. the main defeat is not of the technical but rather of the ethical character
21:48:15gevaertsIt's not a problem as such, no. I'm only worried a bit about several of those disk-spinup-managing pieces of code running at the same time and getting in eachothers way
21:48:20pixelmafml: there was a discussion in the ml though, just not a concensus I think
21:49:19bluebrotherfml: well, I find it more problematic as I see a danger of Rockbox becoming bloatware. So IMO we need more and more transparent discussion of new features. IRC is not a really good channel for transparent discussions IMO
21:53:23fmlpixelma: that's what I'm talking about. Other features have been discussed as well without a clear verdict, and they were not accepted. The problem I see is not whether they are accepted or not. But they are not treated equally. Like in: all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
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21:54:38gevaertsfml: Some are indeed more equal than others. The only way around that is to allow anonymous svn commits
21:54:57pixelmafml: shall we now start accepting everything because of that?
21:55:10fmlSpeaking about the quick screen: why isn't there a fourth option (maybe on the targets having enough buttons)?
21:56:04fmlpixelma: no. But it should be a rule that no significant feature gets in without having been discussed (and agreed upon)
21:56:21fmlgevaerts: even I understand that this is not the right way :-)
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21:58:14fmlFor example, I don't quite like the placement of the new QS entry in the menu (prominently on the 3rd place)
21:59:11pixelmaI could agree on this rule
21:59:29*gevaerts waits for a definition of "significant"
21:59:55fmlgevaerts: bin size delta > 500 bytes could be a sign
22:00:00bluebrotherwell, it seems people are a bit reluctant to discussions on the ml ...
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22:00:28pixelmabut it's sometimes hard to draw the line when a discussion starts running in circles, the "significant" is also hard to answer
22:01:00bluebrothernice. One can set volume as item for the quickscreen.
22:01:15fmlWhat about a 4th option in the QS?
22:01:34bluebrotherquestion: I just set volume to "left". How can I increase the volume again? And what's the point of the volume in the quick screen at all?
22:01:41pixelmaif it was me the quickscreen could go completely... ever mentioned that? ;)
22:02:00Strife89I'd rather it not.
22:02:07fmlbluebrother: hehe
22:02:42*gevaerts tells bluebrother about this flag that can be set to decide whether a setting is quickscreenable or not
22:03:09*bluebrother tells gevaerts that he simply installed a most recent build on his e200 and tried
22:03:22bluebrotherwell, if I'm puzzled by this, how will users be?
22:03:32 Join Thundercloud [0] (
22:03:39Strife89Baffled beyond reason.
22:03:41 Quit jhulst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:03:53bluebrotherand I already proposed replacing the quickscreen with a user menu ...
22:03:55gevaertsThere are some settings that should go out of the list. I don't think it's unreasonable to not make a selection on first commit
22:03:59bluebrother(on the ml that is)
22:05:16Strife89That's interesting to me, but I can't implementation being easy for that.
22:05:26Strife89can't *imagine*
22:05:29fmlI like quick screen as a feature. Just put the fourth option in (to make it logical) and maybe exclude some settings
22:06:43pixelmathe quickscreen is probably one of the reasons for quite a few support question like "Where is my music?" etc.
22:07:36Strife89Perhaps one could put the text "Quickscreen" in the middle, if the font and screen space allow it.
22:10:12shiftplusonewhat's this 'quickscreen' everyone's talking about, my build is relatively new and I can't figure out what this is about O_o
22:10:31Strife89This is probably just asking for bloat, but perhaps a brief description screen could appear the first time the user accesses it. It disables the keys for a second or two so that the user doesn't accidentally remove it in a button-mashing frenzy.
22:11:10Strife89shiftplusone: From the While Playing Screen, one can access the "Quickscreen" to adjust commonly changed settings.
22:11:22*bluebrother points shiftplusone to the manual ...
22:11:42pixelmashiftplusone: the basic quickscreen is explained in the manual, its new feature "customisability" is not though
22:11:45bluebrotherStrife89: you can access the quickscreen from other screens as well
22:11:50gevaertsStrife89: that would be bloat, yes
22:12:01pixelmabluebrother: ?
22:12:30fmlpixelma: !
22:12:52Strife89gevaerts: Mmm. Never hurts to suggest. :)
22:13:43BigBambiIt would also be hugely annoying
22:14:02bluebrotherpixelma: f.e. in the main menu I can bring up the quickscreen on my e200
22:14:03Strife89BigBambi: "the first time the user accesses it"
22:14:06gevaertsStrife89: can your feature have a paperclip?
22:14:25BigBambiAnd how would that be done? In a file?
22:14:51BigBambii.e. how would it know it was the first time?
22:15:08*BigBambi stands by annoying and bloaty and a bad idea :)
22:15:11Bagderit would first have to ask that ;-)
22:15:23bluebrotherStrife89: how about making the quickscreen a normal menu instead? ;-)
22:15:33Strife89BigBambi: Perhaps the config file.
22:15:34gevaertsBigBambi: it would be a setting, and you can set it using the quickscreen :)
22:15:45bluebrotherremove doom!
22:15:49Strife89Just a 0/1 variable.
22:15:51BigBambiStrife89: So then we have to wait for a spin up too? Stil bad idea :)
22:16:16Strife89BigBambi: Doesn't Rockbox load/create the whole config file at startup
22:16:30pixelmabluebrother: yes, ok. just checked the keymaps a bit, never knew. Well I got used to Rockbox without quickscreen and never really looked for such a thing
22:16:43BigBambiStrife89: You aren't going to win :)
22:17:10Strife89I know, I'm just answering theoretical questions now.
22:17:18pixelmaand since the invention of "Insert Shuffled" on a directory, I never missed it
22:19:36Strife89I've used the quickscreen quite a bit to change the Repeat setting.
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22:22:22shiftplusoneAh ok, now I see the new feature... From a user's perspective, I like it.
22:23:22bluebrotherwell, the problem is that it isn't working as intended. The original idea was to have a button combo change the settings, not to enter a screen, then change a setting, then leave it
22:24:58shiftplusonedon't get it, but ok.
22:26:25*gevaerts thinks that if bloat==bad and features==good, the discussion needs to be about how to add features without reducing the playback buffer
22:26:30bluebrotherwell, the idea is like press menu + left -> change "left" item on quick menu
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22:27:53bluebrotheranother useless feature?
22:28:06*amiconn has ape -c1000 *playing* without skips *on PP5002*
22:28:21gevaertsbluebrother: apparently :)
22:28:39shiftplusoneas in, make it cycle through the items while in the quick screen rather than set it in settings?
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22:29:18gevaertsamiconn: now -c2000 ;)
22:29:41amiconn-c2000 will be possible on PP by using dualcore
22:30:17amiconn(dualcore will also offload core 0 a bit for -c1000)
22:30:55amiconnBut -c1000 playing w/o skips means my arm division is more efficient than libgcc's :)
22:31:58amiconn136% realtime (up from 113%)
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22:32:53*gevaerts will now show his total ignorance about arm again
22:33:28gevaertsWould that also mean that the 50% realtime on -c5000 in the beast can be improved significantly?
22:33:44amiconnThe beast is armv6
22:34:38gevaertshm, ok
22:34:39amiconnAnd I don't see a possibility for further optimising the libgcc division for armv5 and higher
22:34:45*linuxstb starts looking for an even more inefficent codec than APE
22:35:25amiconnThe higher compression levels only add filtering (with can be rather efficiently done by the armv6 simd instructions). They don't add divisions
22:36:00amiconnMy optimisations will help PP, Gigabeat F/X, and AS3525 (which is also armv4)
22:36:38gevaertsSo realtime -c5000 on a max-clocked beast remains tantalizingly close :)
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22:36:58amiconnOverclock it a little...
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22:37:57gevaertsI guess that it probably doesn't need the same 10% to 30% margin as the slower targets
22:39:04 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.1b2pre/20081104040308]")
22:39:42amiconnMy optimisation for armv4 is based on the armv5(+) routine, btw. "Just" replacing two 'clz' instructions and surrounding stuff (6 insns) by a 17-insns binsearch
22:40:47saratogatheres always AAC optimizations
22:41:07saratogaprofiling 2 min of AAC-HE on a sansa took almost an hour
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22:42:36*amiconn leaves aac optimisations to someone else
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22:43:05amiconnI'm not really interested in AAC. Optimising APE is more fun...
22:43:45gevaertsThe difference between getting 3% more runtime vs getting things to run at all?
22:44:08saratogawe can't run AAC-HE at all on anything but gigabeats
22:44:40amiconnMaybe, but afaik -HE is for high compression, i.e. low quality
22:45:08saratogaHE can be generally transparent, so its not useless
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22:46:58*linuxstb was surprisingly impressed with an AAC-HE file he heard (around 64kbps IIRC)
22:47:33funmani understood low quality was with the simple profile
22:47:42funmani mean low complexity
22:47:59funmani mean "low quality comes with the low complexity profile" (sorry..)
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22:56:16pixelmaBagder: still around?
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22:57:11*gevaerts looks for Mr Someone
22:57:19*amiconn isn't sure what header to put into his udiv32-armv4.S
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22:57:37pixelmacould you rename the "Quickscreen" wiki page to "QuickScreen" or something to make it a proper wiki word. It's currently not linked inside the wiki (e.g. from WebHome)
22:57:48funmanamiconn: rockbox, with a mention "adapted from xxx" ?
22:58:07pixelmaBagder: that was supposed to be a question ;)
22:58:08amiconnThere's a further complication: libdemac has yet another header
22:59:13Bagderpixelma: done!
22:59:20amiconnlinuxstb: opinions?
22:59:31pixelmaBagder: thanks
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23:02:04amiconnAbout 1/3 of the code lines are my code, about 2/3 are libgcc code (but also partially adjusted), and 2 lines are rockbox specific (.icode handling)
23:02:32*pixelma guesses pressing "left" in the beloved quickscreen on the D2 exits the quickscreen instead of adjusting the setting, right?
23:02:53linuxstbamiconn: What's the libgcc license? It sounds like a modification of that code.
23:02:59amiconnlibgcc is gpl v2 or later, with a relaxation
23:04:08linuxstbWould this code make sense in the codec lib?
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23:04:40amiconnNot sure. It only handles unsigned 32/32 division, and only for armv4
23:04:53amiconnReadding the armv5(+) stuff would be simple, but pointless...
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23:05:49amiconnAdding support for signed division would also be possible, libgcc style (i.e. just some sign pre/postprocessing, then calling the unsigned division routine)
23:05:51*funman updated his forum post on the sansav2 SD init
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23:06:36bertrikgood news or bad news?
23:07:03funmanno bad news, only something to help understanding what the OF does
23:07:56amiconnMaybe I should post a patch for libgcc as well.... but even if they include it, PP5002 would need its own copy
23:08:52funmanremove some uncertainties, and add more than it removes :)
23:08:55amiconnWell, unless there's some linker voodoo to change sections
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23:10:27bertrikI'm still a bit confused about this D7 pin, it controls the button light and apparently does something with a pull-up when in SD/MCI mode and I think kugel reported some trouble with the display if buttonlight was not enabled
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23:10:52amiconnlibgcc is built for .text. Problem is that even with some black magic, moving just __udivsi3 to IRAM wouldn't be sufficient. The double-precision division (also use in the ape codec, but just for calculating the seek position) reuses the single-precision one, and libgcc uses short calls all over
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23:11:22funmanbertrik: we must not take every code we see as useful, there may be leftovers from a cross-platform devkit
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23:19:40DerPapstBagder: Can you commit FS #9527? I'm sure Zagor wouldn't mind and even if there is always svn revert. And right now the irc reader is almost unusable with ff (and other browsers not as broken as IE 6) ;)
23:21:20BagderI'll save that for Zagor
23:21:51DerPapstmeh.. ok.
23:22:12DerPapstcan you remind him if he pops in please?
23:22:50Bagderhe too subscribes to the tracker mailing list so he knows
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23:46:34 Quit BigBambi ("Please insert girder")
23:46:49 Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi)
23:50:18 Quit aarcane ("Leaving")
23:53:13 Part dany_21a_
23:53:14 Quit Zarggg ()
23:53:51 Join Zarggg [0] (
23:56:16 Quit XavierGr ()

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