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| 00:05:17 | n1s | using tar (introducing a "fulltar" target first) works just as well as zip -0 time difference is in the error margin |
| 00:05:48 | n1s | linuxstb: do you think it is worth investigating if it can be done directly by buildzip? |
| 00:06:06 | linuxstb | I can't think why it couldn't be. |
| 00:06:11 | | Join MarcGuay [0] (n=chatzill@ip216-239-79-242.vif.net) |
| 00:06:17 | rasher | Buildzip is a bit clunky, if you ask me |
| 00:06:22 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Ka-chunka") |
| 00:07:01 | linuxstb | "make install" (no fonts) and "make fullinstall" options would be nice as well. |
| 00:07:08 | | Quit Thundercloud_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:07:28 | funman | in timer.c , callers can register only one timer at once ? (i.e. you can not have 2 timers running at the same time) |
| 00:07:57 | MarcGuay | JdGordon_: Plans to include the quick screen changes to the manual and/or MajorChanges? |
| 00:08:15 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:08:47 | linuxstb | funman: I think that's probably a hardware limitation on current targets - they only have two timers. One timer is used for the system tick, and the other is the "user timer". |
| 00:08:54 | JdGordon_ | MarcGuay: major changes yes, i dont do the manual... i cant stand latex |
| 00:09:11 | funman | linuxstb: I only see 1 timer being used in timer.c, is the other one used elsewhere ? |
| 00:09:28 | linuxstb | Probably in kernel.c or similar... |
| 00:09:49 | MarcGuay | JdGordon_: There's something weird about the "for at least" settings in that list, but the context makes it clear what they're about... |
| 00:09:59 | | Quit reacocard (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:10:28 | MarcGuay | Any reason why you can't screen scroll on that list? |
| 00:10:44 | MarcGuay | The right button seems to just exit., |
| 00:11:39 | | Quit bmbl ("Woah!") |
| 00:12:26 | JdGordon_ | yeah, its not a regular option screen... im thinking about reworking the whole ui though |
| 00:12:35 | linuxstb | funman: Hmm, I can't see it either... |
| 00:12:38 | JdGordon_ | what "for at least" settings? |
| 00:12:50 | | Nick JdGordon_ is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 00:12:58 | MarcGuay | Turning the status bar on is buggy. |
| 00:13:05 | funman | linuxstb: that stuff can wait, I just wanted to keep me busy :) |
| 00:13:25 | MarcGuay | JdGordon: The "for at least"s are recording related. |
| 00:13:41 | JdGordon | ah ok |
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| 00:17:57 | n1s | linuxstb: ok, doing it in buildzip wasn't really hard, and slightly faster, will clean up and check in tomorrow though, it's way past "safe coding-o'clock" :) |
| 00:18:43 | linuxstb | n1s: I noticed buildzip.pl deleted the .rockbox directory first - did you change that? |
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| 00:19:56 | n1s | linuxstb: no, just did some quick hacking, my perl foo isn't helping either |
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| 00:23:07 | | Quit n1s () |
| 00:25:58 | | Quit ender` (" Please help Conserve Gravity - Play Chess, not Basketball.") |
| 00:29:06 | | Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c264@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-a6239977cbebe4a2) |
| 00:31:06 | saratoga | why does the current days IRC log have a "−−Delimiter Content-type: text/html " line at the top? |
| 00:31:30 | saratoga | i think this causes problems for google chrome |
| 00:33:56 | funman | saratoga: I remember seeing this but now it's absent (in firefox 3) |
| 00:34:42 | rasher | saratoga: seems you now ruined it for firefox as well by uttering that line |
| 00:35:07 | * | rasher doesn't pretend to understand what's going on |
| 00:35:10 | saratoga | it works for me in firefox, but if i try chrome, it tries to download the file rather then open it |
| 00:35:24 | saratoga | and then once the day's log is finished, that line gets removed, and the page loads normally |
| 00:35:43 | rasher | The log now gets cut off at: <saratoga> why does the current days IRC log have a " |
| 00:36:03 | funman | :) |
| 00:36:19 | funman | a link with http://xkcd.com/327/ ? |
| 00:36:36 | saratoga | oh haha |
| 00:37:41 | saratoga | Bagder: can you unstick the logs? |
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| 00:40:19 | JdGordon | haha |
| 00:40:43 | * | linuxstb doesn't have a problem with the reliable old text file |
| 00:53:22 | funman | % arm-elf-objdump -D bootloader/bootloader.elf|grep -i timer |
| 00:53:23 | funman | % |
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| 00:53:36 | funman | I don't understand why, since timer.o is built |
| 00:54:04 | JdGordon | its not linked if nothing is used in it? |
| 00:54:21 | funman | I expected the non static functions (like the ISR) to go in |
| 00:57:47 | linuxstb | Only if it's used. You can also look at bootloader/bootloader.map to see what's linked. |
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| 00:58:36 | funman | ok |
| 00:58:54 | jt_ | is there a reason I'm still seeing old podcasts in database view? and I can listen to them, even though I deleted them? |
| 00:59:14 | rasher | jt_: they're still on the drive. Probably in a recycle bin of sorts. |
| 01:00 |
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| 01:00:22 | jt_ | does rockbox cache them somewhere? |
| 01:00:41 | linuxstb | How did you delete the files? |
| 01:01:26 | jt_ | rm |
| 01:01:31 | jt_ | i'm on linux |
| 01:02:43 | linuxstb | But no, Rockbox doesn't cache the files. The database may not have noticed they've gone (I think you need to enable some options for that to happen), but if you rm them, they shouldn't play. |
| 01:03:30 | jt_ | they are playing though :S I can't find them on the ipod either..which is weird |
| 01:04:37 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:04:43 | rasher | Did you cleanly unmount? |
| 01:05:15 | linuxstb | And what device are you running Rockbox on? |
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| 01:05:52 | saratoga | if they play then you didn't delete them (or you deleted one copy but not another) |
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| 01:06:36 | jt_ | rasher: yes linuxstb: ipod video 30g |
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| 01:23:52 | PaulJam | JdGordon: i think last.fm logging requires a reboot too. |
| 01:24:24 | JdGordon | yeah, and cuesheet... found them after the commit... ive put up a wiki page to list the problematic settings |
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| 02:27:51 | mc2739 | funman: ping |
| 02:29:16 | funman | mc2739: pong |
| 02:29:34 | mc2739 | Hi |
| 02:29:48 | funman | what's up ? is your e200v2 back on the road again ? |
| 02:29:58 | mc2739 | the unbrickable e200v2 is still unbrickable |
| 02:30:05 | funman | :) |
| 02:30:50 | funman | have you checked the forum ? I continued this morning and now i can successfully hijack the OF on my Clip (with some little problems though, but i'm still able to recover) |
| 02:31:16 | mc2739 | yes, i saw - good work |
| 02:31:21 | | Quit Acksaw (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:32:30 | funman | but I found nothing interesting yet (i'm looking again at the state/value of gpio registers because my first test was wrong) |
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| 02:35:15 | saratoga | fuman: were you able to look at the voltage settings in the AMS chip built into the bigger AMS chip? |
| 02:35:16 | funman | mc2739: your problem of yesterday seems like the same I had today |
| 02:36:04 | funman | saratoga: if you mean with a multimeter, no I didn't look - since I have none and wouldn't know how to use it safely |
| 02:36:28 | funman | I think fdinel is more the man to do that |
| 02:37:15 | mc2739 | funman: were you able to recover? |
| 02:37:36 | saratoga | funman: I think they reused the power management chip from the v1 series built into the V2 |
| 02:37:36 | saratoga | if so, you can read out which supplies are turned on and off via i2c |
| 02:37:38 | saratoga | though i don't have the datasheet handy so i can't check |
| 02:37:56 | funman | yes, I just have weird behaviours, like not the same effect across a reboot with the same button state |
| 02:38:12 | funman | saratoga: I dumped the 0x40 registers from the i2c bus, but nothing interesting in there |
| 02:39:04 | saratoga | so you know that all the correct voltages are being supplied, you know all the internal CPU registers, and you know the SD controller registers |
| 02:39:12 | saratoga | i wander what else could possibly matter |
| 02:41:23 | saratoga | i guess all needed clocks are being supplied too? |
| 02:41:40 | funman | they are - but I still don't understand why the OF enables IDE & MEMSTICK clocks |
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| 02:42:16 | funman | I tried reading from the IDE & MEMSTICK base addresses but the system crashed so there's probably nothing here |
| 02:42:33 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:42:35 | funman | and the IDE/MEMSTICK clocks would be bind to the pl180 |
| 02:42:36 | saratoga | you said they added the extra SD controller right? |
| 02:42:50 | funman | well there is already a pl180 in the as3525 |
| 02:42:56 | saratoga | maybe they reused some unneeded clocks/voltages |
| 02:43:04 | saratoga | oh i misunderstood then |
| 02:43:19 | funman | maybe they added another one, or somehow use only one .. |
| 02:43:40 | funman | no I think they are 2, because there is 2 different base addresses used with the pl180 driver |
| 02:45:09 | funman | hm .. my code "crashes" just before displaying the results - I know it runs because the button led blinks |
| 02:47:57 | funman | the OF enables the DMA module, I didn't look at this area yet (I think it's unrelated) |
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| 03:11:21 | funman | the gpio registers are all set to input |
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| 03:14:29 | funman | IDE & MEMSTICK are on the AHB, while NAND/SD are on the APB |
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| 03:19:27 | funman | hum the i2c uses '7-bit addressing' (0 ->0x3f) and 'sub-addressing' |
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| 03:20:46 | funman | hum the 'sub-address' register is where we write the '7-bit address' arlready .. |
| 03:21:07 | funman | the slave address is 0x46, wonder what that means |
| 03:23:31 | funman | the OF seems to only use this one |
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| 04:12:46 | funman | oh the exit logo is different between m300.bin & m300a.bin (a shows 'goodbye') |
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| 04:39:44 | Bawitdaba` | there a reason it takes sooooo long to shut off rockbox |
| 04:39:57 | Bawitdaba` | takes like 15-20s its crazzy |
| 04:40:16 | saratoga10 | mine only takes a second or two |
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| 04:50:19 | mib_32k5qp1q | what kind of roms can i put on rockbox 3 |
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| 05:16:37 | soap | game boy, game boy color |
| 05:16:52 | soap | original pacman roms |
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| 07:29:59 | JdGordon | make bin is broken :( |
| 07:31:37 | JdGordon | but a full make seems to do much less work now if not much changed :) |
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| 07:50:57 | J-23 | hi! |
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| 08:00 |
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| 08:22:30 | J-23 | Is PayPal only way to donate Rockbox? |
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| 08:24:47 | BHSPitMonkey | The devs really prefer large shipments of flowers |
| 08:25:02 | BHSPitMonkey | as ornate as possible |
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| 08:25:55 | rinabub | Hello, does rockbox cripple the life of the iaudio x5? |
| 08:26:58 | scorche | no... |
| 08:27:10 | scorche | what would make you say that? |
| 08:27:19 | BHSPitMonkey | you mean battery life? |
| 08:27:26 | rinabub | sorry yes battery life |
| 08:28:03 | scorche | with rockbox, you should get more battery life |
| 08:28:22 | rinabub | oh cool |
| 08:28:41 | rinabub | how many hours about, if you know? |
| 08:28:55 | scorche | there are runtime tests in the wiki |
| 08:29:35 | rinabub | okay thanks |
| 08:29:38 | | Part rinabub |
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| 08:34:08 | JdGordon | morning Zagor, make bin is broken... the bitmaps arnt built :( |
| 08:35:21 | Zagor | oops |
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| 08:38:41 | Zagor | ahh right, I removed that to avoid a second pass through the bitmap makefiles. re-adding... |
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| 08:39:33 | JdGordon | cheers |
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| 08:49:35 | Zagor | d |
| 08:49:41 | Zagor | eh |
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| 09:00 |
| 09:00:13 | funman | bertrik: have you looked at the SD card init procedure (a specific function) in the OF yet ? |
| 09:00:40 | bertrik | I think I've seen it but got lost |
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| 09:00:47 | funman | yeah it's confusing :) |
| 09:01:12 | funman | I dumped the whole structure used by the SD code, but this function is too complex for humans |
| 09:01:48 | funman | somehow they play with the frequency (switching from/to 200kHz and 20MHz) and the bit 6 (opendrain) of MMC_POWER |
| 09:02:00 | | Quit Darksair ("(define (add-1 n) (lambda (f) (lambda (x) (f ((n f) x)))))") |
| 09:02:22 | funman | weird since the SD spec requires the clock to be between 100kHz & 400kHz during the whole init procedure |
| 09:05:54 | funman | i still don't get what is opendrain exactly (i have trouble with electrics) but from what I read it's something we care only for MMC, not SD |
| 09:13:44 | | Join TheArchitect [0] (n=456c199b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-38314435b5b4d1c6) |
| 09:13:58 | TheArchitect | Anyone home? |
| 09:14:21 | TheArchitect | I could use some help. |
| 09:14:22 | GodEater | yes lots of us |
| 09:14:48 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 09:15:43 | TheArchitect | For some reason, new tracks I'm adding to iPod nano 1st gen with rockbox 3.0 on it aren't showing up anywhere. Yet when I plug it back in, the tracks are there. Is this some kind of bug or did I screw up somehow? |
| 09:15:57 | GodEater | how are you adding them ? |
| 09:16:01 | bertrik | funman, I know what opendrain is, but have to go now |
| 09:16:10 | TheArchitect | Via WinAmp. Should I use iTunes? |
| 09:16:34 | | Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c264@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-60e8c3db160b9a48) |
| 09:16:37 | | Quit bertrik ("Leaving") |
| 09:17:01 | GodEater | TheArchitect: so you're using Rockbox's database to browse the content on your ipod ? |
| 09:17:55 | | Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) |
| 09:18:00 | TheArchitect | What do you mean? Like I'm using the Rockbox firmware to look through my mp3s that I have loaded? If so, then yes I am. |
| 09:18:37 | saratoga | hes asking if you're using the file browser or database |
| 09:18:45 | TheArchitect | Database. |
| 09:18:51 | TheArchitect | Sorry. A bit slow tonight. Headahce. |
| 09:19:34 | GodEater | and have you updated the Rockbox database after loading this new music onto your iPod ? |
| 09:19:59 | TheArchitect | I thought I did. Though I assumed it just updated itself. |
| 09:20:28 | GodEater | I suggest doing it again to make sure. |
| 09:20:59 | TheArchitect | Alright. Um. How? I'm completely new to this so. |
| 09:21:04 | linuxstb | The manual describes how to enable "auto-update", I don't think it's on by default. |
| 09:21:13 | TheArchitect | Ah. Alright. |
| 09:21:17 | TheArchitect | I'll look into it then. |
| 09:21:49 | GodEater | linuxstb: doesn't it also rely on dircache (perhaps other things) ? |
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| 09:22:37 | TheArchitect | Brb. Let me search the manual. |
| 09:22:47 | linuxstb | GodEater: I'm not sure if that's still the case, but the manual should describe it. |
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| 09:28:17 | TheArchitect | I think I got it. |
| 09:28:46 | TheArchitect | Though it's rather confusing. I updated the id3 tags before I loaded them on and yet they reverted to the orignal ones. |
| 09:30:52 | | Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:31:03 | TheArchitect | This may seem like a stupid question but is there a simplifed noobs guide to this thing? Haha. |
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| 09:33:36 | GodEater | The manual *is* the simplified guide. |
| 09:34:19 | linuxstb | TheArchitect: Doing an "Initialize Now" will delete the current database and create a new one from scratch, so it will pick up any changes in the tags. |
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| 09:35:17 | TheArchitect | Ha. Figures. And I did that. Like I said though, I updated the tags of the files in WinAmp after I loaded them in. Yet they reverted to their old tags. |
| 09:35:57 | TheArchitect | For example: I loaded some Brand New on here. I changed the genre tag from General Punk to Alternative. Yet now that it's found the files, it's reverted them back to General Punk. |
| 09:35:57 | | Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection) |
| 09:35:58 | saratoga | presumably you didn't really update the tags then |
| 09:36:35 | Zagor | TheArchitect: sounds like you updated the tags on the files on your pc rather than the copies on your player |
| 09:36:38 | TheArchitect | But I did. I know I did. I selected the tracks in WinAmp, told it to send it to my iPod, then I updated the tags from there. |
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| 09:40:36 | TheArchitect | Alright, I'm in WinAmp right now looking at the tracks on my iPod. It has the updated tags. I don't get why Rockbox isn't showing it though. |
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| 09:42:47 | funman | perhaps you have 2 tags (id3v1 & id3v2) ? |
| 09:43:37 | * | GodEater can't imagine why you'd only want to update the tags on the iPod. You want your music in sync surely ? |
| 09:44:21 | TheArchitect | I do want it in sync. I don't get how to make Rockbox work right though. I've read through the manual three times now and I'm no closer. |
| 09:45:12 | GodEater | so why not update the tags on the files on your PC, and THEN upload them to the iPod ? |
| 09:45:47 | TheArchitect | Alright. We'll try it. |
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| 10:00 |
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| 10:16:35 | JdGordon | linuxstb: can you try out 9525 and see if its an improvement? |
| 10:18:35 | linuxstb | JdGordon: I would have expected the the context menu to be on the setting, rather than on the options inside the setting, as it applies to the whole setting. |
| 10:19:18 | | Join kugel [0] (n=chatzill@141.45.207.38) |
| 10:19:24 | JdGordon | yeah, probably.. but then the reset doesnt really fit in there |
| 10:20:43 | JdGordon | arg, back in 20 |
| 10:21:09 | linuxstb | It could - it's more of a whole-setting feature, than a particular item. And the context menu is all about doing something with the currently selected item. |
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| 10:44:49 | funman | oh it seems that in the Clip OF, a first attempt to init the SD card fails, and a second one succeeds |
| 10:45:47 | | Quit bughunter2 ("bye") |
| 10:48:43 | JdGordon | linuxstb: also, having it on the menu means some things will have a context menu and some/(most maybe even) wont and there wont be any real indication why |
| 10:50:25 | linuxstb | If the "reset to default" option is moved to the context menu, then they will all have it. But I don't see it as a problem if it's not available - it indicates that you can't do anything with that setting. |
| 10:55:15 | JdGordon | having the reset outside of the option screen sounds odd to me though |
| 10:55:24 | JdGordon | anyone else have an idea? |
| 10:55:41 | kugel | funman: it fails on the first try? sounds weird |
| 10:57:09 | | Join kachna [0] (n=kachna@r3g248.net.upc.cz) |
| 10:57:47 | kugel | internet is so slow here :S |
| 10:59:26 | linuxstb | JdGordon: I agree it feels a bit strange, but I would argue it's more logical than the current reset method |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:08 | * | linuxstb also thinks we need other people to comment |
| 11:00:24 | JdGordon | na, 2 is a quarum |
| 11:02:03 | JdGordon | puting it in the menu has one last possible problem.. if we ever let regular menu items setup their own context menus things could get wierd |
| 11:02:10 | JdGordon | but I dont really see that happening |
| 11:02:48 | | Join J-23 [0] (n=kvirc@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 11:02:49 | * | JdGordon looks at the code and realises that already happens as a hack for the root menu |
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| 11:13:00 | linuxstb | funman: So you've been attempting to duplicate the init that fails? |
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| 11:22:11 | | Nick Darksair is now known as Darksair{away} (n=user@221.221.166.114) |
| 11:22:50 | funman | linuxstb: well it call 2 times the same function |
| 11:23:06 | linuxstb | With the same parameters? |
| 11:23:18 | funman | no, this is why I recognized it was the 2nd call which succeeded |
| 11:23:30 | funman | but the difference is not very interesting |
| 11:23:48 | funman | more what it does in between |
| 11:23:49 | linuxstb | Maybe both are needed for some reason? |
| 11:24:31 | funman | between the 2 calls it sets pin d7 to 1 and bit 7 of mmc_power (rod) |
| 11:25:04 | funman | it's a bit messy, there is (disabled) support for MMC protocol |
| 11:25:05 | saratoga | some kind of reset/initialization? |
| 11:25:13 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 11:25:42 | funman | if you have the disassembly of a sansav2 firmware I can show you where it is |
| 11:26:14 | funman | it's like: 1/ init the devices clocks and interrupts, setup 'the' structure |
| 11:26:22 | funman | 2/ init the controller, init the card (fails) |
| 11:26:33 | n1s | linuxstb, B4gder: It turns out that changing buildzip to really build the .rockbox dir in the right place for the sim from the start is more work than i am motivated to do and with my small change to make buildzip cp the dir instead of using any zip/tar whatever works well. A full install this way is about twice as fast on my system ~14s -> ~6s and an install without all the fints take about 1 second |
| 11:26:56 | funman | 3/ set pin d7 (while gpiod is not meant to be functional, because the xpd pins are set to sdmci interface), set bit7 of mmcpower |
| 11:26:59 | n1s | s/fints/fonts/ |
| 11:27:02 | funman | 4/ init the controller, init the card (succeeds) |
| 11:27:20 | linuxstb | n1s: I wouldn't argue against committing your changes. Have you addded a "nofonts" install option? |
| 11:27:23 | B4gder | n1s: let's save that piece of the job for Mr Somone |
| 11:27:37 | * | B4gder is officially incapable of spelling |
| 11:28:54 | JdGordon | shouldnt we have a actualy Mr. Someone todo list on the wiki? |
| 11:28:58 | n1s | linuxstb: yes, a "make install" now installs everything that would be in a regular zip (includes the fonts used by the included themes) and "make fullinstall" includes all themes |
| 11:30:22 | linuxstb | n1s: Sounds good. I agree with B4gder that doing it directly in buildzip.pl is a job that can be postponed for later... |
| 11:30:37 | n1s | ok, I'll go ahead then |
| 11:31:26 | linuxstb | I guess the documentation needs updating (wherever it is...) to say that users should do a "make fullinstall" first, then "make install" subsequently. |
| 11:32:24 | linuxstb | Oh, and the "make help" text, if you haven't done it already. |
| 11:33:47 | n1s | make help is done, anyone know of other places than UiSimulator ? |
| 11:34:54 | * | amiconn had an idea that will hopefully speed up division on armv4 :) |
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| 11:35:39 | linuxstb | n1s: Searching for "make install" in the wiki search box (with quotes) gives a couple of pages. |
| 11:35:44 | JdGordon | what does install skip that fullinstall does? |
| 11:36:05 | linuxstb | Just fonts I think. |
| 11:36:15 | linuxstb | (fonts not used by the default theme) |
| 11:36:19 | n1s | yes |
| 11:36:23 | JdGordon | ok |
| 11:36:32 | n1s | same difference as between make zip and make fullzip |
| 11:36:57 | linuxstb | amiconn: Significantly? |
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| 11:39:36 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:40:22 | * | JdGordon hits the dev ml unless anyone else has an opinion on 9525? |
| 11:43:46 | | Quit J-23 ("Flying cow pressed ^D on my keyboard.") |
| 11:44:56 | | Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 11:46:12 | JdGordon | ok people... spit out as many "Mr Someone" |
| 11:46:18 | JdGordon | todo items as you can tihnk of... |
| 11:47:03 | | Join J-23 [0] (n=kvirc@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 11:50:19 | JdGordon | fine then... /me creates MrSomeonesTodoList to give new comers an idea of what to do to get started |
| 11:52:18 | n1s | ah I thought you wanted us to add them to the wiki |
| 11:53:15 | funman | that's open source spirit :) |
| 11:53:55 | * | n1s has a few ideas for that list... |
| 11:54:15 | JdGordon | well, i was going to add them myself, but got impatient :p |
| 11:54:44 | * | JdGordon looks at the timestamps and hides |
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| 11:55:05 | * | n1s thinks it should have the usual "This is _not_ a general wishlist for users" thingy at the top, in size 50, red and blinking |
| 11:55:32 | n1s | JdGordon: 4 minutes is plenty of time :) |
| 11:55:42 | * | B4gder thinks such a list is very hard to keep up-to-date and accurate and will soon be another pointless wiki page |
| 11:56:10 | JdGordon | why? mr someone only gets the things which arnt likely to happen any time soon |
| 11:56:25 | B4gder | you think? |
| 11:56:37 | B4gder | I think it'll get a verifying bunch |
| 11:56:43 | B4gder | varying even |
| 11:56:55 | JdGordon | one way to find out... |
| 11:57:05 | n1s | I think it is good to have a list of things that are more or less agreed upon would be good things to do but no one is about to do them, to not for get good ideas etc. |
| 11:57:07 | B4gder | yes sure |
| 11:57:19 | JdGordon | worst case is when someone sees something which has already been done they can remove it |
| 11:57:32 | | Nick Darksair{away} is now known as Darksair (n=user@221.221.166.114) |
| 11:58:06 | B4gder | I'm not arguing about that it could be useful |
| 11:59:06 | * | Llorean suggested an "official feature requests"-type page some time ago, actually. |
| 11:59:31 | n1s | so this is the informal official fr page then! |
| 11:59:44 | | Quit kachna ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 11:59:50 | * | gevaerts proposes adding "Keep the MrSomeonesTodoList page updated" to MrSomeonesTodoList |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:12 | linuxstb | n1s: Yes, I've also suggested that in the past. I would put things like multi-font, bmp resizing, jpeg album-art on that page. I even started such a page, for WPS-related features - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FutureWPSFeatures |
| 12:00:20 | JdGordon | Llorean: the problem with that is users think they are free to add their own requests |
| 12:00:40 | Llorean | JdGordon: And they don't with any other page? |
| 12:00:41 | linuxstb | Or rather, Llorean started that page ;) |
| 12:01:32 | Llorean | If you name the page "OfficialWantedFeatures" or something, it makes it clear that they're officially wanted, and what the page is about anyway. |
| 12:01:54 | JdGordon | ok, but still these 2 lists dont have to overlap |
| 12:02:00 | linuxstb | Or something like this at the top - "This page describes features that are considered by the developers to be desirable for future versions of Rockbox, and the current state of their implementation." |
| 12:02:18 | JdGordon | my list is more techincal changes (probably) |
| 12:03:28 | * | JdGordon cant tihnk of many things that would go in OfficialWantedFeatures apart from bmp resize and multi font |
| 12:04:30 | n1s | It sort of depends on how you define a feature |
| 12:05:45 | Llorean | It could also be OfficiallyWantedPatches |
| 12:06:28 | Llorean | Then you don't have any question of "Is it a feature or not?" |
| 12:06:41 | JdGordon | yeah |
| 12:08:15 | skipper | is there any way or tutorial for animated themes? |
| 12:09:38 | | Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 12:09:46 | JdGordon | it can be done, one of the included themes does it |
| 12:10:07 | robin0800 | JdGordon: charging and usb file transfers for portal players wanted /needed? |
| 12:10:09 | JdGordon | dancepuffduo has little dancing icons on the wps |
| 12:10:23 | JdGordon | robin0800: na, bloody useless... |
| 12:10:27 | JdGordon | of course we want that! |
| 12:11:08 | | Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 12:11:22 | skipper | thx, iam trying something... :) |
| 12:12:59 | | Join JdGordon [0] (n=Miranda@c211-28-145-137.smelb2.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 12:13:36 | Llorean | robin0800: Those are *mostly* done anyway, it's just the remaining bugs in them that need fixing. |
| 12:14:44 | | Join kugel [0] (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/kugel) |
| 12:17:33 | kugel | n1s: good job. you got r19000 |
| 12:17:48 | n1s | ooh, didn't notice :) |
| 12:18:34 | | Join lasser [0] (n=chatzill@W8bb4.w.pppool.de) |
| 12:19:43 | * | n1s wonders where that red came from |
| 12:20:09 | kugel | funman: how did you find the keyscan matrix? by looking in the disassembly? |
| 12:20:36 | funman | kugel: it was found by atomikpunk, not me; but yes he found by reading the disassembly |
| 12:20:45 | kugel | ok |
| 12:22:09 | linuxstb | n1s: Weird... |
| 12:22:34 | | Quit skipper (Remote closed the connection) |
| 12:22:57 | n1s | hmm, a player build stops with *** No rule to make target `/home/nils/rockbox/firmware/export/id3.h', needed by `/home/nils/rockbox/playbuild/apps/plugins/shortcuts/shortcuts_common.o'. Stop. here ever with r18999, Zagor? |
| 12:22:59 | preglow | JdGordon: are you proposing to add a context menu for every menu item containing the option "add to quickscreen" ? |
| 12:23:24 | * | n1s facepalms, should make clean |
| 12:24:41 | n1s | after make clean a player build builds fine here |
| 12:24:56 | n1s | both with r18999 and r19000 |
| 12:25:47 | n1s | lostlogic: ping |
| 12:29:31 | | Join moos [0] (i=moos@81-66-141-133.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 12:31:09 | Nico_P | n1s: sim make install is awesomely fast now, thanks :) |
| 12:31:26 | linuxstb | preglow: Yes, that's the proposal. |
| 12:31:35 | n1s | Nico_P: great :) |
| 12:36:47 | | Join lacrstech [0] (n=lacrstec@209.216.196.2) |
| 12:36:47 | | Quit lacrstech (K-lined) |
| 12:42:27 | JdGordon | preglow: not every item... only settings have the context menu, and only ones which are ok to put on the screen will have the 3 options |
| 12:42:34 | JdGordon | otherwsie they will have just "reset setting" |
| 12:52:14 | | Join bughunter2 [0] (n=j@77.164.66.126) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:01:27 | | Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection) |
| 13:03:33 | * | funman is lost in the recursive isrs with multiple functions with static & non static variables, wrapping or not counters, .. |
| 13:08:32 | | Quit gevaerts (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 13:13:26 | | Join Bensawsome [0] (n=Bensawso@unaffiliated/bensawsome) |
| 13:15:31 | | Join mc2739 [0] (n=mc2739@cpe-67-10-238-175.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 13:16:21 | JdGordon | arnt recursive isrs really bad? |
| 13:17:55 | funman | i would think that yes, but it appears to work fine |
| 13:19:21 | B4gder | recursive? you mean as in one occurs while the previous isr was executed? |
| 13:19:27 | mc2739 | has anyone noticed that the IRC log webpage has nothing after 00:31? |
| 13:20:06 | Zagor | mc2739: it does, but some browsers are having problems with the live-updating page |
| 13:20:11 | JdGordon | is that when saratoga broke it? |
| 13:20:26 | funman | i can't say for the exact timing, but the isr calls a function which will provoke an interrupt, which will call a function .. |
| 13:20:52 | B4gder | aha |
| 13:21:11 | funman | yes that's it |
| 13:21:17 | B4gder | but the next isr doesn't usually trigger until the prev is cleared |
| 13:21:18 | mc2739 | must be, saratoga's was the last entry |
| 13:21:20 | funman | some problem with −−Delimiter Content/Type .. |
| 13:21:49 | funman | B4gder: I thought 'clear' doesn't neccessarily mean 'the isr has returned' |
| 13:22:18 | mc2739 | Zagor: ah, let me try with ie |
| 13:22:21 | B4gder | no, it can't mean that |
| 13:23:27 | B4gder | still, it most likely won't call the isr again until the previous one is done |
| 13:23:30 | mc2739 | ie works , firefox 3 doesn't |
| 13:25:25 | funman | B4gder: i look more carefully and you are right, the interrupts are disabled by the isr until it returns |
| 13:25:56 | funman | so this asynchronous model makes it harder to understand :/ |
| 13:27:25 | | Join skipper [0] (n=skipper@213.147.115.74) |
| 13:32:12 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 13:32:17 | J-23 | do the e200v2's really have only 8MB of RAM? |
| 13:32:18 | | Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 13:34:19 | | Join dany_21a_ [0] (n=dan@84-119-14-107.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 13:35:23 | funman | hello dany_21a_ |
| 13:36:57 | | Join PaulJam [0] (i=PaulJam_@vpn-3067.gwdg.de) |
| 13:37:31 | dany_21a_ | hi funman |
| 13:37:51 | funman | do you have your e200 back ? |
| 13:38:15 | dany_21a_ | good work, with the injection of the branch-to-RB-loader-from-OF, just read the forum |
| 13:38:31 | dany_21a_ | na... e200 is dead :/ - fuze is orderd (amazon) :) |
| 13:39:03 | dany_21a_ | has anybody checked if the fuze also has that direct flash-access over usb (recovery-mode)? |
| 13:39:21 | | Join webguest13 [0] (n=dee177a1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-24525085b22bc2ac) |
| 13:39:39 | funman | kugel tried I guess (unsuccessfully) |
| 13:39:40 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:40:12 | funman | by the way I just found something: the 'init_card' function is called 2 times in the OF, and the 1st call fails |
| 13:40:20 | J-23 | dany_21a_: what happened to your e200? |
| 13:40:41 | funman | that narrows a bit the area to look for the right setting |
| 13:42:44 | dany_21a_ | J-23: i actually dont know - it currently has the dualboot RB loader on it and can load the RB-FW and the OF... if i connect it to the USB it just powers up, but dmesg stays calm (always the same in rescue mode, OF and where ever)...looks like something in the USB-Datapath is broken |
| 13:43:42 | dany_21a_ | funman: maybe if you find how to connect to the sansa over jtag i could flash some mp3's on it and still use it (with OF) as a mp3 player |
| 13:44:01 | funman | dany_21a_: do you have a jtag adaptor? |
| 13:44:34 | | Join kachna [0] (n=kachna@r3g248.net.upc.cz) |
| 13:44:46 | dany_21a_ | only a homebuild which i build for the e200 and so i never could check if it is working :) |
| 13:45:03 | funman | why ? if it's still powered there is no reason |
| 13:45:13 | dany_21a_ | (one without any active components... a wiggler compatible) |
| 13:45:45 | preglow | JdGordon: definitely makes more sense than the long list |
| 13:45:57 | dany_21a_ | it never worked with my e200 (so i dont know if the jtag adapter is the problem, or the software, or the e200 or ... or or |
| 13:46:00 | dany_21a_ | ) |
| 13:46:13 | dany_21a_ | note: the e200 has no description of the pins on the PCB |
| 13:46:14 | JdGordon | preglow: but the extra menu? feels wierd |
| 13:46:22 | preglow | haven't tried |
| 13:46:32 | preglow | but if it feels weird, it's prolly not right |
| 13:46:51 | JdGordon | feel is probably the wrong word |
| 13:46:58 | preglow | i wish os x would stop spewing dot files everywhere |
| 13:47:01 | preglow | god how i hate it |
| 13:48:35 | | Quit pixelma2 (Nick collision from services.) |
| 13:48:44 | | Join pixelma2_ [0] (n=marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 13:48:46 | | Nick pixelma2_ is now known as pixelma2 (n=marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 13:51:02 | funman | dany_21a_: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200v2 |
| 13:51:29 | * | J-23 forgot that he has e200 :D |
| 13:51:46 | funman | but it seems he didn't test this layout |
| 13:52:17 | J-23 | did anybody make JTAG on e200v2 working? |
| 13:52:42 | dany_21a_ | funman: i know that... but it is not sure where it came from (where just posted in the forum without further explanation) |
| 13:53:45 | dany_21a_ | i have checked that layout... that pictures are actually done by myself - also shows my JTAG adapter http://flickr.com/photos/90053035@N00/sets/72157605072639496 |
| 13:55:30 | dany_21a_ | but it might be correct... as i said, i dont know if my JTAG is actually working at all |
| 13:55:46 | | Quit Guest ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]") |
| 13:58:11 | funman | i have ordered an adaptor, i hope i can use it even if i don't have your electronic skills |
| 13:58:16 | | Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("Leaving") |
| 13:58:51 | | Quit mc2739 () |
| 13:59:16 | | Join NotADJ [0] (n=TDJACR@Wikipedia/Thedjatclubrock) |
| 13:59:21 | NotADJ | Hello, world! |
| 13:59:27 | | Nick J-23 is now known as world (n=kvirc@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 13:59:30 | NotADJ | <3 Rockbox |
| 13:59:31 | world | hello, NotADJ |
| 13:59:35 | | Nick world is now known as J-23 (n=kvirc@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 13:59:38 | NotADJ | :) |
| 13:59:41 | NotADJ | ;) |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:13 | NotADJ | I'm just waiting for all my music to be added, then I will have a fully-functional jukebox. |
| 14:00:20 | NotADJ | Without the DRM and restrictions. |
| 14:00:21 | NotADJ | ! |
| 14:00:57 | J-23 | :) |
| 14:01:36 | NotADJ | I made my Linux Partition too small :/ |
| 14:03:07 | J-23 | Are there any problems with implementing USB OTG in Rockbox? |
| 14:03:07 | | Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) |
| 14:03:10 | funman | dany_21a_: did you try to add a resistor like atomikpunk ? |
| 14:03:38 | NotADJ | I miss Compiz |
| 14:04:00 | funman | NotADJ: please can you stay on topic ? |
| 14:04:12 | J-23 | NotADJ: speak not Rockbox-related things at #rockbox-community, not here |
| 14:04:39 | B4gder | J-23: no problems other than the implementation and in some targets a lack of docs |
| 14:05:18 | NotADJ | :), Sorry. |
| 14:05:21 | funman | dany_21a_: I was referring to http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg129684#msg129684 |
| 14:05:28 | NotADJ | Well, anywaym where can I get a theme. |
| 14:05:37 | J-23 | and what's bad with current USB (hardware) support? |
| 14:06:33 | NotADJ | Can I install multiple themes at onec? |
| 14:06:36 | NotADJ | Once*? |
| 14:07:12 | J-23 | NotADJ: of course you can |
| 14:07:13 | linuxstb | There are two types of USB hardware in Rockbox devices - hardware USB<->ATA bridge chips (which do all the work in hardware, and are fully supported in Rockbox), and generic USB interfaces which require Rockbox to do the hard work. That kind are not supported. |
| 14:07:30 | | Join DerDome [0] (n=DerDome@141.71.76.49) |
| 14:07:31 | J-23 | and how can I help with them? |
| 14:09:35 | linuxstb | Write drivers, write higher-level usb code, find/fix the bugs in existing code, ... |
| 14:13:55 | NotADJ | 9_ |
| 14:14:08 | NotADJ | 9_9 |
| 14:14:26 | J-23 | 9_9_9 :p |
| 14:19:55 | B4gder | is lostlogic's build server borked? |
| 14:20:35 | B4gder | we got a red build |
| 14:20:43 | * | GodEater engages psychic powers |
| 14:20:57 | * | linuxstb waits... |
| 14:21:16 | * | GodEater gets a nose bleed |
| 14:21:26 | | Join AhtiK [0] (n=ahti@194.204.31.19) |
| 14:22:04 | NotADJ | :O |
| 14:22:11 | | Quit webguest13 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 14:22:31 | * | GodEater decides it would be safer to just ask lostlogic |
| 14:22:50 | JdGordon | gevaerts: whats the story with usb on portal player? is it only the sansas with data corruption problems? |
| 14:23:10 | GodEater | JdGordon: I've certainly never seen it on my iPod |
| 14:23:24 | gevaerts | No. Also the timing issue that's visible with hubs |
| 14:23:41 | amiconn | JdGordon: The data corruption problem is sansa only. It's not related to usb at all, but rather to the SD driver |
| 14:24:29 | amiconn | The (presumable) timing issue affects all PP targets - frequent resets and hence slow to impossible transfer especially via hubs |
| 14:24:47 | JdGordon | so its only the timing issue holding it back? why not enable it with the warning that some hubs just wont work? |
| 14:24:49 | amiconn | The usb code itself works fine - never had a problem with it on the beast so far |
| 14:25:16 | amiconn | JdGordon: It's not just hubs, it can affect all sorts of connections. |
| 14:25:35 | amiconn | Hubs just make it more severe, as do front ports (often) |
| 14:25:57 | * | GodEater always connects via front ports, and is yet to see an issue =/ |
| 14:26:16 | * | JdGordon didnt realise the beast was using the rockbox usb code |
| 14:26:25 | JdGordon | I do have trouble with the beast and my front ports.. |
| 14:26:37 | * | amiconn once had the usb stack enabled, and disabled it again because the stalls due to excessive resets were unbearable |
| 14:30:21 | advcomp2019 | i remember someone saying it was both.. i will need to up that person then |
| 14:31:16 | JdGordon | is there anything we can really do abotut the timing issue? (without proper datasheets) |
| 14:31:28 | funman | sleep() everywhere ? |
| 14:31:29 | * | gevaerts thinks |
| 14:31:44 | gevaerts | The PP can be clocked higher than 80MHz, right? |
| 14:32:32 | gevaerts | Do we know that the various OFs run at 80MHz, or do they run at different speeds? |
| 14:34:43 | | Part LinusN |
| 14:35:48 | preglow | various speeds |
| 14:35:50 | preglow | depending on format, they say |
| 14:36:20 | preglow | it was/is apparently possible to make an ipod skip if a vbr file changed bitrate suddenly |
| 14:36:30 | preglow | so they probably don't do the overkill buffering we do either |
| 14:37:00 | gevaerts | Maybe it's worth trying to go a bit over 80MHz to see what happens to USB |
| 14:37:14 | preglow | why would it have an impact? |
| 14:37:48 | | Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (i=44a04303@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-077489b6f7360fa7) |
| 14:38:22 | gevaerts | One possible reason for the issues would be not getting the data to the controller in time |
| 14:38:53 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 14:39:14 | | Join robin0800 [0] (n=robin080@cpc2-brig8-0-0-cust394.brig.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:39:16 | gevaerts | Although I admit that it's pretty close to voodoo debugging |
| 14:39:24 | n1s | is the controller running as fast as it can then? maybe there's some divider or something to set for it? |
| 14:39:40 | B4gder | gevaerts: I'm sure we can sponsor you with a doll and needles from the fund! |
| 14:40:06 | * | B4gder encourages voodoo |
| 14:44:57 | | Quit moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:45:05 | | Join moos [0] (i=moos@81-66-141-133.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 14:54:32 | preglow | i encourage crazy and far out voodoo |
| 14:55:01 | preglow | we'll neat goats, a grott, an assortment of weird dolls and plenty of scented oils |
| 14:55:08 | preglow | grotto! |
| 14:55:38 | preglow | i suggest spending the rockbox fund on sending gevaerts to haiti |
| 14:56:32 | * | n1s is prepared to join gevaerts to haiti to assist in the voodoo rituals |
| 14:56:47 | B4gder | devcon 2009 on haiti! |
| 14:56:49 | preglow | just don't skimp on the signing of diabolical agreements, please |
| 14:57:19 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:57:24 | LambdaCalculus37 | B4gder: Make sure you have plenty of voodoo ingredients! ;) |
| 14:58:48 | preglow | i happen to have some dead bodies in my closet you can have if you wish |
| 14:59:06 | preglow | i'll affix them with gps trackers and send them off the pier |
| 14:59:32 | preglow | in rockbox shirts, of course |
| 14:59:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | :) |
| 15:00 |
| 15:01:20 | | Join dirwiz [0] (n=efn@static-72-94-28-202.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:02:14 | preglow | but yeah, where are we with usb? only issue left is resets with hubs and other signal degrading conditions? |
| 15:02:48 | n1s | preglow: so it seems |
| 15:03:46 | n1s | I wonder if anyone tried disassembling the emergency disk mode image from an ipod to see wht they do? |
| 15:03:47 | | Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:07:51 | preglow | i guess so |
| 15:07:55 | preglow | but it's plenty of code |
| 15:13:23 | | Join Notlistening [0] (n=tom@host81-151-159-249.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:14:16 | linuxstb | Only about 50KB IIRC... |
| 15:14:28 | linuxstb | ;) |
| 15:14:53 | n1s | if we take a KB each it will go fast! |
| 15:15:25 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) |
| 15:17:27 | | Quit Bensawsome ("The awsome is gone :(") |
| 15:18:10 | * | B4gder spots n1s did the r19K commit |
| 15:18:20 | | Join Bensawsome [0] (n=Bensawso@unaffiliated/bensawsome) |
| 15:18:29 | preglow | linuxstb: yeah, i also thought that when i first sawit :P |
| 15:19:10 | | Join Schmogel [0] (n=Miranda@p3EE220DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:19:13 | * | n1s wonders if people will rush to get 20k |
| 15:19:58 | * | gevaerts has about 1000 whitespace cleanup commits waiting |
| 15:21:20 | n1s | go for it! |
| 15:21:48 | | Join kachna|lappy [0] (n=kachna@r3g248.net.upc.cz) |
| 15:22:41 | n1s | 18k was on july 9 so about 4 months for 1000 commits |
| 15:23:45 | J-23 | why we need to disassemble v2 firmware? |
| 15:24:00 | n1s | J-23: to know what it does |
| 15:24:10 | Llorean | n1s: If we can shorten that to about 2 months, we can make 20k be our 3.1 commit. |
| 15:24:52 | n1s | Llorean: if we branch early we have to make each commit twice so it might be possible :P |
| 15:24:57 | | Join crash91 [0] (n=crash91@122.162.61.233) |
| 15:25:07 | B4gder | hahaha |
| 15:25:29 | linuxstb | I thought a three-monthly release cycle was decided at devcon? |
| 15:25:38 | crash91 | I was looking at "Mr. Someone's Todo list" and noticed "Theme site", does it mean the web pages themselves, or the hosting etc? |
| 15:26:13 | linuxstb | crash91: The web pages themselves. |
| 15:26:29 | | Quit reacocard (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 15:26:32 | | Join tyfoo [0] (n=tyfoo@dyndsl-095-033-077-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 15:26:46 | crash91 | Right, I'll attempt to do it then. |
| 15:26:55 | Llorean | linuxstb: Yes, approximately every three months |
| 15:27:29 | B4gder | crash91: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/themes.rockbox.org/trunk/ |
| 15:29:25 | linuxstb | Llorean: 3.0 just seems much longer ago than a month... |
| 15:30:03 | | Join kronflux [0] (n=kronflux@blk-138-78-15.eastlink.ca) |
| 15:30:07 | crash91 | B4gder: =/ I dont do PHP, I can do HTML and CSS.. |
| 15:30:24 | | Part NotADJ |
| 15:30:43 | B4gder | well, this site can't be built with just html and css |
| 15:30:53 | preglow | any point in doing a release when not much has happened? |
| 15:31:09 | kronflux | LambdaCalculus37: ahoy there! |
| 15:31:54 | LambdaCalculus37 | kronflux: Hi there! |
| 15:32:13 | Llorean | linuxstb: It is a bit longer than that, but not too much. 9/23 according to the news. |
| 15:32:31 | crash91 | B4gder: I guess I'll forget about it then |
| 15:33:19 | Llorean | preglow: No point, necessarily, but no reason not to since it's another short freeze for bug fixing, and another "stable" build for users, which is nice to have a "recent" stable around in case anything goes wrong with -dev builds. |
| 15:33:59 | linuxstb | preglow: If we do releases at all, I'm in favour of sticking to a strict regular timetable. There's always going to be something that happened, even if it's not that exciting. |
| 15:34:27 | linuxstb | Otherwise, there's a danger of just slipping, and the most recent release becoming too old. |
| 15:34:37 | Llorean | Exactly! |
| 15:35:15 | * | linuxstb would be happy with December 23rd as a release date - so people who have free time over Christmas aren't held back by a feature freeze |
| 15:35:17 | | Quit kachna (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 15:39:39 | kronflux | LambdaCalculus37: hows it been going? |
| 15:39:41 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:41:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | kronflux: A little slow with the 2g nano. I've done an objdump of the firmware and am trying to study it a little bit. |
| 15:42:14 | LambdaCalculus37 | It's quite large, even when tar-gzipped (~90MB .tgz versus 254MB uncompressed) |
| 15:42:36 | kronflux | learned anything new or interesting, or useful? |
| 15:43:48 | preglow | december 23 would be cool :P |
| 15:44:26 | LambdaCalculus37 | kronflux: That only the "apud" in the firmware is encrypted, it seems. That's the "Apple Update" portion of the firmware. |
| 15:44:42 | n1s | linuxstb: fire away a mail to the dev ml and suggest that, with a freeze ~2 weeks before and i don't think anyone will be against that and we have a firm date set |
| 15:45:26 | Llorean | n1s: It could just happen like last time. A few of us in here say "Should we be freezing now?", a bit of nodding goes around, the channel topic changes, and that's that. :-P |
| 15:45:58 | n1s | Llorean: i think we can try to be a bit more organized this time :) |
| 15:46:05 | Llorean | It'd be nice, surely. :) |
| 15:46:27 | Llorean | Freeze on the 9th, release on the 23rd, of months divisible by three? |
| 15:46:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | A nice Xmas gift for Rockboxers. :) |
| 15:49:24 | preglow | Llorean: haha, yeah, remember that |
| 15:49:33 | preglow | me: freeze! |
| 15:49:36 | preglow | llorean: why, yes! |
| 15:49:59 | preglow | needed doing :P |
| 15:50:10 | Llorean | Indeed, and it got done. |
| 15:51:00 | linuxstb | Did we branch at the same time as freezing? Or rather, do we want to in future? We could have "freeze on the 9th, branch on the 16th, release on the 23rd" ? |
| 15:51:22 | Llorean | linuxstb: That sounds good to me. |
| 15:51:29 | preglow | sure |
| 15:51:59 | linuxstb | Maybe picking a specific day of the week would be better than "9th, 16th, 23rd", but I'm not sure what... |
| 15:52:18 | J-23 | What's currently main task on e200v2's? |
| 15:52:32 | Llorean | I like specific dates. Saying "The first tuesday" or whatever always just seems more complicated to me. |
| 15:53:13 | | Quit kachna|lappy (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 15:54:54 | linuxstb | Llorean: I agree it will be simpler. I'm just writing an email now... |
| 15:56:33 | | Quit funman ("leaving") |
| 15:59:39 | * | linuxstb has sent the mail |
| 16:00 |
| 16:01:16 | * | amiconn would prefer the next freeze not before 20090101 |
| 16:01:51 | linuxstb | amiconn: Why? |
| 16:04:53 | * | B4gder thinks the proposed plan sounds great |
| 16:05:52 | Notlistening | J-23: umm think they are trying to get internal SD card access at the moment and maybe some button mappings |
| 16:07:09 | Notlistening | they have the bootloader working and the lcd code and i am sure they have some of the button mappings but not sure if they have all of them |
| 16:07:30 | | Quit crash91 ("Leaving") |
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| 16:18:07 | | Quit GodEater ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 16:18:26 | J-23 | can anybody tell me step-by-step firmware disassembling procedure? I forgot it |
| 16:18:36 | | Join GodEater [0] (i=c2cbc962@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-069388fa074abd32) |
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| 16:20:02 | linuxstb | J-23: If someone told you here, then it will be in the IRC logs. |
| 16:20:08 | J-23 | ahh |
| 16:24:06 | mickpettigrew | Hey guys I was wondering if there was a way I could collect data about the tracks played (eg time of track being played, how long track was played for, how long track is etc) on an ipod mini g1 using rockbox. Does rockbox log this data anyway? |
| 16:25:21 | LambdaCalculus37 | Not that I know of, but we do have last.fm logging. |
| 16:25:34 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: Isn't that the same thing? |
| 16:26:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: You may be right, but I don't use last.fm logging. :P |
| 16:26:10 | LambdaCalculus37 | mickpettigrew: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LastFMLog |
| 16:26:27 | mickpettigrew | thanks very much mate, I'll have a look |
| 16:36:22 | J-23 | is arm_disass.exe binary available somewhere? |
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| 16:39:20 | | Quit Nico_P (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:40:10 | | Quit kronflux ("Leaving") |
| 16:41:12 | linuxstb | J-23: That won't help you with the Sansa V2 firmwares - they are mostly thumb code, and arm_disass doesn't support thumb. |
| 16:41:21 | wpyh | B4gder: I'm building outside the source tree, and now it complains "cannot access /home/william/rockbox/build/a/notmal/apps/lang/*" |
| 16:41:50 | J-23 | I only asked because there's "arm_disass.exe" in makefile |
| 16:42:01 | linuxstb | In which makefile? |
| 16:42:18 | B4gder | wpyh: and where is the source root? |
| 16:42:25 | | Part dirwiz |
| 16:42:28 | wpyh | the source root is at /home/william/rockbox/svn |
| 16:42:32 | B4gder | and did you re-configure? |
| 16:42:40 | wpyh | I'm building in /home/william/rockbox/build/a/normal |
| 16:42:56 | wpyh | yes, I reconfigured −− which is why I mistyped "normal" as "notmal" :p |
| 16:43:07 | wpyh | (it's a new directory, I just mkdir'ed it) |
| 16:43:39 | B4gder | do are the dirs in the generated Makefile in your build dir ok? |
| 16:43:44 | B4gder | s/do/so |
| 16:44:58 | wpyh | let me check |
| 16:45:38 | | Quit Bensawsome ("The awsome is gone :(") |
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| 16:46:35 | | Quit Bensawsome (Client Quit) |
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| 16:47:48 | wpyh | B4gder: it builds fine now −− I don't know what went wrong. weird... |
| 16:48:34 | B4gder | I forgot to tell, but I pressed my magic button here |
| 16:48:45 | B4gder | :-) |
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| 16:49:36 | wpyh | :) |
| 16:52:10 | | Quit skipper_ (Client Quit) |
| 16:52:10 | | Quit skipper (Client Quit) |
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| 16:55:54 | wpyh | B4gder: I found that actually the only assumption for rootdir is that "configure" lives as rootdir/<somedir>/configure |
| 16:56:09 | B4gder | yes |
| 16:56:14 | B4gder | I realized that too |
| 16:56:37 | wpyh | :) |
| 17:00 |
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| 17:03:26 | | Quit skipper_ ("Ex-Chat") |
| 17:03:26 | | Quit skipper ("Ex-Chat") |
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| 17:04:18 | | Nick skipper_ is now known as skipper (n=skipper@213.147.115.74) |
| 17:05:59 | | Part dany_21a_ |
| 17:07:23 | | Quit skipper (Client Quit) |
| 17:07:43 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
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| 17:12:01 | Notlistening | question on cue files and similar, does rockbox support large file indexing and how is there more than one way to index differening file formats |
| 17:12:06 | | Join kugel [0] (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/kugel) |
| 17:13:23 | Notlistening | the question related to Daisy audio books and writing a tools that uses the XML markup to generate a file that can be indexed |
| 17:13:35 | Llorean | Notlistening: Rockbox does not support the Daisy format. |
| 17:13:55 | Llorean | Everything Rockbox supports *should* be described in the manual. |
| 17:14:17 | kugel | the irc log bugs |
| 17:14:28 | Notlistening | yup got that but i am writing a tool to convert to somthing else it does |
| 17:14:40 | kugel | on firefox3 at least |
| 17:15:02 | Llorean | Notlistening: So, what *exactly* is the question then? I think cue support is described in the manual. |
| 17:17:02 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 17:17:13 | Notlistening | Well it was about the differing formats ie MP3 Ogg Flac mp4 and what method of cue like behaviour you can get with each |
| 17:17:36 | Llorean | I don't understand what you're asking. |
| 17:17:42 | Llorean | .cue files are a separate file. |
| 17:17:51 | Notlistening | Just after some key workds to do some research on google |
| 17:17:53 | Llorean | There's no "cue-like" behaviour. |
| 17:17:54 | Llorean | There's cue files. |
| 17:18:27 | Notlistening | and cue files work for all formats? |
| 17:18:36 | Llorean | All formats you can seek in, yes. |
| 17:19:08 | Llorean | Which should be, at this time, any format you can record voice in that Rockbox supports. |
| 17:19:28 | Notlistening | right and in MP4 there is not another technique? |
| 17:20:07 | Llorean | Does the Rockbox manual describe supporting other techniques? |
| 17:20:24 | Notlistening | llol let me read ;) |
| 17:20:42 | Notlistening | thanks anyway |
| 17:20:45 | Llorean | Well, the channel guidelines tell you to read it first. |
| 17:23:41 | * | markun still hasn't read the guidelines.. |
| 17:24:22 | Llorean | Well, at the very least, knowing someone has read the manual gives you a common basis for terms, etc. |
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| 17:35:36 | J-23 | how can I help with hacking USB on v1 Sansas? |
| 17:35:40 | J-23 | (and probably other players based on same PortalPlayer chip) |
| 17:35:59 | gevaerts | J-23: pick something that's missing, and work on it. |
| 17:36:09 | B4gder | try it out, fix bugs you find |
| 17:36:37 | J-23 | is it described somewhere what's bad with it? |
| 17:36:41 | Llorean | Disassemble the OF and see what they do different from us, and figure out which of those are important? |
| 17:38:13 | Llorean | J-23: On the Sansas there are, I believe (unless the situation changed and I missed it) two major holdups, whereas other PP targets only have one. |
| 17:38:19 | Llorean | The common one is signal quality issues. |
| 17:38:30 | Llorean | The Sansa-specific one is an issue with the SD storage that can cause data corruption. |
| 17:38:42 | Notlistening | RTFM ;) jk |
| 17:39:42 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:40:07 | * | J-23 doesn't understand how SD can affect on USB |
| 17:40:24 | J-23 | how can I disassemble it? Same like v2 firmware or any other firmware? |
| 17:40:31 | Llorean | J-23: When you transfer files over, they still need to get written to "disk", right? |
| 17:41:12 | J-23 | Llorean: probabl |
| 17:41:15 | J-23 | probably* |
| 17:41:29 | Llorean | So, assuming you're writing to storage, how could the storage driver *not* be an important factor? |
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| 17:42:49 | J-23 | thanks, now I understand |
| 17:42:54 | | Part B4gder |
| 17:42:55 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:43:22 | J-23 | does it happen only if I'm copying files to SD or even if I'm copying to internal memory? |
| 17:45:12 | Llorean | The internal memory is accessed via an SD interface. |
| 17:47:00 | Notlistening | Llorean: I think i got enough of my answer from google (not much in the manual, had to check as i had to read throught it for a bit), cue will provide a way to do what i want. |
| 17:48:35 | Notlistening | anyone have any inspiration other than writing a plugin that uses voice clips to voice the entries that are held in a cue file? |
| 17:50:31 | J-23 | how can I disassemble this firmware? |
| 17:51:36 | Notlistening | DataRescue IDA Pro Advanced v5.2 |
| 17:51:49 | Notlistening | might help ;) |
| 17:51:58 | J-23 | ok, but what part of firmware file should I get? |
| 17:52:02 | Llorean | Or objdump for the appropriate architecture if you don't have access to it. |
| 17:52:07 | J-23 | first 512K? |
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| 17:54:10 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:54:45 | Notlistening | Also has it been registered that apple have used a similar technique as rockbox for voicing its menus and files? |
| 17:55:31 | | Quit ahti_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:56:39 | Notlistening | and with that i am gone tx again |
| 17:57:26 | | Quit Notlistening () |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:06:02 | | Quit gevaerts (Nick collision from services.) |
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| 18:07:30 | shiftplusone | Hello.... I want to be able to delete a file from the HD while it's playing (let it stop 'course) without having to stop it and go through the files menu to find it and so on... couldn't find a patch so I was just wondering.... which files do I need to edit and what functions should I know? |
| 18:07:43 | shiftplusone | (I have a very basic C knowledge) |
| 18:09:08 | Llorean | shiftplusone: You can already use the menu without stopping playback. |
| 18:09:30 | Llorean | You can open the context menu directly on the file playing, or you can access the browser and browse to it, without stopping playback. |
| 18:09:56 | shiftplusone | oh... there's 'delete' right there >.>.... is that form HD or from playlist? |
| 18:10:01 | | Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.245.152) |
| 18:10:02 | Llorean | HD. |
| 18:10:10 | shiftplusone | huh.... well then <.< thanks |
| 18:10:14 | shiftplusone | has that been there for long? |
| 18:10:24 | Llorean | Many years. |
| 18:10:40 | shiftplusone | huh, well how about that =/ |
| 18:11:35 | shiftplusone | thanks again, can't believe I never noticed it. >_< |
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| 18:18:09 | DerPapst | Bagder: there? |
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| 18:29:24 | DerPapst | Bagder, Zagor: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9527 (whoever is first) This fixes a css issue and doesn't make the live log break in ff if someone repeats saratoga's experiment |
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| 18:48:46 | amiconn | DerPapst: Could you perhaps also fix the remaining bug that the irc reader doesn't store the user's choice to show joins/hides? |
| 18:49:21 | amiconn | 'show seconds' and the font seem to be remembered now, but not 'show joins' |
| 18:49:38 | amiconn | Hmm, and there's abug with 'show joins'... |
| 18:49:44 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Remote closed the connection) |
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| 18:50:11 | * | amiconn presumes that's fixed by 9527 |
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| 18:53:03 | gevaerts | Is there a shorter and/or more maintainable way to write http://pastebin.ca/1244384? |
| 18:53:24 | | Nick Nic0_P is now known as Nico_P (n=nicolas@jau31-3-82-239-20-145.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:54:03 | preglow | amiconn: why postpone feature freeze, btw? |
| 18:54:27 | | Join dany_21a_ [0] (n=dan@84-119-14-107.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 18:54:40 | amiconn | Because I doubt that much fixing will happen if we freeze in December |
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| 19:00 |
| 19:02:59 | | Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 19:03:12 | | Quit bughunter2 ("bye") |
| 19:12:44 | kugel | dany_21a_: Hey. Have you made sure it's not the cable (referring to your broken e200) |
| 19:12:49 | | Join voldemar [0] (i=voldemar@sa-84-52-42-84.saturn.infonet.ee) |
| 19:13:07 | voldemar | Hello everybody! Is here any Sansa c100 port programmers? |
| 19:17:12 | voldemar | I need to reset my sansa c150 (or format its partition), tcctool is working... i want to ask do you have any sort of tool/firmware that will format my sansa? |
| 19:17:21 | | Quit denes (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:17:26 | voldemar | player connects ONLY in recovery mode |
| 19:19:18 | | Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 19:20:12 | linuxstb | No, there's nothing apart from tcctool. |
| 19:20:41 | linuxstb | I assuming that uploading the original firmware with tcctool doesn't help? |
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| 19:26:53 | voldemar | no |
| 19:27:06 | voldemar | it stucks when it tries to update its BrowseDB |
| 19:27:20 | voldemar | i think there's a error in filesystem |
| 19:27:55 | voldemar | but it doesn't show itself as /dev/sda* while it doesn't stop updating its BrowseDB |
| 19:29:12 | voldemar | but it will never finish... so the only way is to upload formatting or fsck'ing firmware... |
| 19:29:16 | | Part Llorean |
| 19:29:37 | preglow | amiconn: yeah, a fair concern |
| 19:31:33 | | Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("Leaving") |
| 19:32:30 | voldemar | or returning it to guarantee service... |
| 19:33:25 | DerPapst | amiconn: saving your preferences should be fixed and the bug appearing if you click show joins is addressed in FS #9527 |
| 19:33:56 | amiconn | DerPapst: Saving 'show joins' is definitely not working right now |
| 19:34:29 | DerPapst | hmm.. do you allow cokies for rockbox.org? |
| 19:34:43 | amiconn | sure |
| 19:34:53 | amiconn | And the other choices are saved |
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| 19:35:55 | DerPapst | looking... |
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| 19:39:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:41:06 | amiconn | DerPapst: Hmm, now it works. But it didn't work in the previous try (open irc reader, click 'show joins', close tab, reopen) |
| 19:46:13 | DerPapst | heh ok. but you made me spot a bug in my patch this way. thanks :P |
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| 19:57:15 | | Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c264@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-33f8148b0d4c1253) |
| 19:57:49 | saratoga | DerPapst: if you want mroe to do, you could try and figure out why the script doesn't work in google chrome until after the day is overe |
| 19:58:32 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 19:59:19 | amiconn | Bah, still dependency issues :( |
| 19:59:43 | * | amiconn summons Zagor |
| 20:00 |
| 20:02:19 | miziasty | hi can anyone tell me where I can obtain Telechips TCC77x datasheets? I have tried forum links and google but all links seem to be dead |
| 20:05:01 | | Quit mickpettigrew () |
| 20:05:17 | voldemar | http://www.telechips.com/product/p_024.asp |
| 20:05:20 | voldemar | maybe there |
| 20:05:35 | voldemar | ah, 404 :( |
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| 20:06:40 | | Quit pixelma2 ("-") |
| 20:06:51 | | Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 20:06:53 | miziasty | it asks for ID and password when I click on 'datasheet' |
| 20:07:19 | scorche | miziasty: what is your reason for wanting it? |
| 20:07:46 | voldemar | sansa c150 is built on that chip |
| 20:08:10 | miziasty | actually I'm interested in sansa m200v1 |
| 20:08:23 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 20:09:24 | LambdaCalculus37 | mizaisty: We already have some work done on the m200; check out the source code. |
| 20:10:29 | * | amiconn is starting to hate those Sansa abcNNNvXYZs |
| 20:11:03 | saratoga | theres some datasheets floating around for the tcc chips, but technically we're not supposed to distribute them since telechips didn't mean to post them to their website |
| 20:11:53 | saratoga | the clip and fuze are a step towards sensible sansa naming, though the fact that they already have a V2 clip is ridiculous |
| 20:11:58 | | Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) |
| 20:13:56 | miziasty | is TCC76x datasheet of any use for m200 development? |
| 20:14:39 | domonoky | for m200v1 yes, for m200v2 not.. :-) |
| 20:15:03 | domonoky | which m200v1 version do you have ? (check the firmware version) |
| 20:15:32 | miziasty | fw 2.1.0 |
| 20:17:07 | linuxstb | domonoky: You mean for m200v1, m200v2, and m200v3? |
| 20:17:10 | domonoky | there are 3 different m200v1 players.. :-) |
| 20:17:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | The m200 is based on the TCC770, is it not? |
| 20:17:38 | miziasty | it is |
| 20:18:26 | domonoky | aslong as we dont rename the m200v2, it would be m200v1a, m200v1b and m200v1c :-) but maybe we can do runtime detection of the different nand interface... |
| 20:19:05 | domonoky | or maybe m200v1.1, m200v1.2 and m200v1.3 :-) |
| 20:19:09 | LambdaCalculus37 | domonoky: That would be the best way of handling. Why make it confusing as hell by offering two (or even three) different builds for the player? |
| 20:19:21 | linuxstb | Sandisk offer four different firmwares for the m200s. I think it would be easier to call them v1, v2 and v3, and rename m200v2 to m200v4 |
| 20:20:13 | | Quit nuonguy ("This computer has gone to sleep") |
| 20:20:13 | pixelma | are other things (like display resolution or button layout) the same among these versions at least? |
| 20:20:29 | linuxstb | I think they're identical physically. |
| 20:20:46 | domonoky | all m200 have the same display and buttonlayout.. even the m200"v2" :-) |
| 20:20:49 | LambdaCalculus37 | The only difference AFAIK is how the NAND is accessed. |
| 20:20:52 | * | gevaerts grumbles at storage_spin() and friends |
| 20:21:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | And the "v2" is another AS SoC-based player. |
| 20:21:34 | pixelma | so Sandisk likes to stick to a design but not the technic behind... weird |
| 20:21:55 | miziasty | I have TCC770-based for sure |
| 20:21:56 | domonoky | all m200 ports are nearly in the same stage.. buttons and lcd work, but no NAND access till now.. |
| 20:23:09 | pixelma | less costs than developing something completely new though... |
| 20:23:57 | gevaerts | What is storage_disk_is_active() supposed to return on a multi-drive target? It's only used in powermgmt.c |
| 20:24:08 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: I imagine that's their reasoning for same physical design but internal reworking. |
| 20:24:27 | LambdaCalculus37 | Although I do have to admit that it's confusing as hell sometimes. |
| 20:25:02 | saratoga | they probably update whenever the chip they're using is discontinued |
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| 20:25:54 | gevaerts | hm, no. It's also used in apps/ |
| 20:25:59 | miziasty | I've read that there were some attempts to read NAND chip id |
| 20:27:38 | linuxstb | miziasty: AFAIK, the low-level NAND reading works fine, the problem is understanding the wear-levelling algorithm used to store the FAT filesystem - i.e. putting the filesystem back together. |
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| 20:30:32 | miziasty | linuxstb: can't it be reversed from original FW? |
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| 20:31:26 | domonoky | , |
| 20:33:14 | * | pixelma wonders what domonoky meant ;) |
| 20:34:31 | * | domonoky meant "something fell on my keyboard" :-) |
| 20:34:56 | linuxstb | miziasty: That's the only option, yes. But only one person is working on it, and it's proving a tough nut to crack. |
| 20:35:25 | * | amiconn hmpfs @ gnu ld, arm longcall & relatives |
| 20:35:53 | * | amiconn could use one single feature of C++ in C now |
| 20:37:29 | miziasty | to access NAND from bootloader I have to hotplug NAND board while the player is connected to USB right? |
| 20:38:09 | gevaerts | amiconn: which one? |
| 20:38:21 | amiconn | Overloading of operators |
| 20:39:10 | amiconn | Looks like I need to introduce a macro for unsigned 32 bit division in libdemac |
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| 20:42:32 | linuxstb | miziasty: No, you can build a Rockbox bootloader and then use mktccboot to merge it with an original firmware file, and dual-boot into your bootloader code. |
| 20:45:53 | miziasty | nice |
| 20:47:36 | | Quit obo_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:47:43 | miziasty | however I have to reflash with every change in the code, right? |
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| 20:47:54 | NotADJ | <3 Rockbox |
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| 20:49:52 | LambdaCalculus37 | miziasty: If you want to test new bootloader code. yes. |
| 20:50:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | If you just want to test new build code, then you can just overwrite the build with the new one. |
| 20:51:45 | * | gevaerts grumbles a bit more |
| 20:52:55 | | Quit mofux (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:58:22 | amiconn | linuxstb: I was right that the remaining libdemac speed penalty on PP5002 vs. PP502x was due to the very frequently called division routine not being in IRAM |
| 20:59:17 | markun | NotADJ: me too! |
| 20:59:30 | pixelma | could one of the Swedes rename the "Quickscreen" wiki page to make it a proper wiki word? |
| 21:00 |
| 21:01:11 | amiconn | I've duplicated the libgcc routine, but in IRAM, and speed is about the same as on PP502x. -c1000: 113% realtime |
| 21:01:46 | amiconn | This is without any optimisation attempt of the routine itself (but I have an idea that *might* speed things up on armv4) |
| 21:01:55 | linuxstb | amiconn: Nice. So you just created a new function? |
| 21:02:01 | amiconn | yes |
| 21:02:18 | linuxstb | Is the libgcc function in C or asm? |
| 21:02:30 | amiconn | Atm it's a hack - a macro in rangecoder.h that's chosen via #if 0 / #if 1 |
| 21:02:33 | amiconn | asm |
| 21:03:19 | amiconn | It's already quite optimised |
| 21:04:19 | amiconn | The problem with optimising division is that something that speeds up things for small divisors often doesn't work that well for large divisors and vice versa |
| 21:07:00 | amiconn | Fast division routines are both science and black magic... |
| 21:07:06 | miziasty | LambdaCalculus37: where is the build stored then in bootloader scenario? in NAND? |
| 21:07:12 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
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| 21:23:15 | fml | Hello. Has the new quick screen feature been discussed and agreed upon? I'm not against it, I'm just trying to understand what (and how) features get accepted or not. |
| 21:24:10 | gevaerts | If you find out, please let us know :) |
| 21:24:19 | * | bluebrother is interested in that too |
| 21:24:59 | bluebrother | personally I don't think this feature is worth the binsize increase, but I'm not in favour of such a feature anyway |
| 21:25:19 | | Quit voldemar (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:25:46 | * | gevaerts thinks that if you're going to have a quickscreen, having it configurable is good |
| 21:26:34 | BigBambi | I quite like it |
| 21:26:42 | bluebrother | well, I asked if it wouldn't be better to replace it with a user menu on the ML ... |
| 21:27:47 | bluebrother | but I'm a bit disappointed by the "agreed" on this. Some people liked it, others didn't and most didn't even speak up :/ |
| 21:31:56 | fml | bluebrother: where are the "down! down!" cries then? I think it works like this: if a brave person with commit access does it, chances are good that it's accepted. Just as a matter of fact. But if it's discussed chances are good that it does not get accepted. Because in the discussions, many are quite conservative (this is not necessarly bad). |
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| 21:34:41 | | Quit perrikwp (Client Quit) |
| 21:34:51 | bluebrother | fml: well, one could start a poll and base the decision on the results. Currently there is kinda a bunch of opinions ... |
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| 21:36:32 | fml | bluebrother: but the facts always win. |
| 21:37:15 | bluebrother | yes, but is that the way we want to go? |
| 21:37:22 | pixelma | I feel a bit guilty for not answering on the ml, I'm not very good at this (yet, only sent a very few mails at all so far). I'm a bit against this but people could argue "well if you don't use the quickscreen how can you tell?", I always forget about the quickscreen's existence and even the configurability won't change that I'm quite sure as there are very very very few options I change (none regularly) |
| 21:37:40 | bluebrother | as by that means almost every feature could get in |
| 21:37:54 | bluebrother | it's just someone needing to create the facts. |
| 21:38:35 | pixelma | someone could create other facts and revert the commit... ... |
| 21:38:51 | pixelma | it would just be stupid though |
| 21:39:00 | bluebrother | pixelma: you know that this would only happen for really broken commits ... |
| 21:39:29 | gevaerts | Why does the clock plugin call storage_sleep() after loading settings? |
| 21:39:48 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 21:40:24 | * | gevaerts dislikes unclean code much more than he dislikes a few bytes |
| 21:41:14 | * | bluebrother agrees with gevaerts but still dislikes added bytes too :) |
| 21:41:15 | pixelma | bluebrother: sure and without concensus that could turn into something real silly (kindergarten style) |
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| 21:45:23 | amiconn | gevaerts: It does this because there's no need to wait for the spindown timeout to kick in. The plugin isn't going to access the disk any time soon after that |
| 21:45:53 | amiconn | Music buffering does the same, as does buffering in the video plugins |
| 21:45:54 | gevaerts | amiconn: that's true for lots of plugins though. |
| 21:46:06 | fml | bluebrother: whether we want or not, we already go this way. What's not good about it is IMO that people whose patches do not get accepted see other features go in without much discussion and bringing bin size with them. Then they feel treated like second sort. And then they quit. |
| 21:46:51 | amiconn | gevaerts: I don't see why this is a problem.... it's a good thing, although not absolutely needed if it's just the settings loading |
| 21:47:56 | fml | I.e. the main defeat is not of the technical but rather of the ethical character |
| 21:48:15 | gevaerts | It's not a problem as such, no. I'm only worried a bit about several of those disk-spinup-managing pieces of code running at the same time and getting in eachothers way |
| 21:48:20 | pixelma | fml: there was a discussion in the ml though, just not a concensus I think |
| 21:49:19 | bluebrother | fml: well, I find it more problematic as I see a danger of Rockbox becoming bloatware. So IMO we need more and more transparent discussion of new features. IRC is not a really good channel for transparent discussions IMO |
| 21:53:23 | fml | pixelma: that's what I'm talking about. Other features have been discussed as well without a clear verdict, and they were not accepted. The problem I see is not whether they are accepted or not. But they are not treated equally. Like in: all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. |
| 21:53:41 | | Quit tvelocity[a] (Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:54:38 | gevaerts | fml: Some are indeed more equal than others. The only way around that is to allow anonymous svn commits |
| 21:54:57 | pixelma | fml: shall we now start accepting everything because of that? |
| 21:55:10 | fml | Speaking about the quick screen: why isn't there a fourth option (maybe on the targets having enough buttons)? |
| 21:56:04 | fml | pixelma: no. But it should be a rule that no significant feature gets in without having been discussed (and agreed upon) |
| 21:56:21 | fml | gevaerts: even I understand that this is not the right way :-) |
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| 21:58:14 | fml | For example, I don't quite like the placement of the new QS entry in the menu (prominently on the 3rd place) |
| 21:59:11 | pixelma | I could agree on this rule |
| 21:59:29 | * | gevaerts waits for a definition of "significant" |
| 21:59:55 | fml | gevaerts: bin size delta > 500 bytes could be a sign |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:00 | bluebrother | well, it seems people are a bit reluctant to discussions on the ml ... |
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| 22:00:28 | pixelma | but it's sometimes hard to draw the line when a discussion starts running in circles, the "significant" is also hard to answer |
| 22:01:00 | bluebrother | nice. One can set volume as item for the quickscreen. |
| 22:01:15 | fml | What about a 4th option in the QS? |
| 22:01:34 | bluebrother | question: I just set volume to "left". How can I increase the volume again? And what's the point of the volume in the quick screen at all? |
| 22:01:41 | pixelma | if it was me the quickscreen could go completely... ever mentioned that? ;) |
| 22:02:00 | Strife89 | I'd rather it not. |
| 22:02:07 | fml | bluebrother: hehe |
| 22:02:42 | * | gevaerts tells bluebrother about this flag that can be set to decide whether a setting is quickscreenable or not |
| 22:03:09 | * | bluebrother tells gevaerts that he simply installed a most recent build on his e200 and tried |
| 22:03:22 | bluebrother | well, if I'm puzzled by this, how will users be? |
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| 22:03:39 | Strife89 | Baffled beyond reason. |
| 22:03:41 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:03:46 | Strife89 | :) |
| 22:03:53 | bluebrother | and I already proposed replacing the quickscreen with a user menu ... |
| 22:03:55 | gevaerts | There are some settings that should go out of the list. I don't think it's unreasonable to not make a selection on first commit |
| 22:03:59 | bluebrother | (on the ml that is) |
| 22:05:16 | Strife89 | That's interesting to me, but I can't implementation being easy for that. |
| 22:05:26 | Strife89 | can't *imagine* |
| 22:05:29 | fml | I like quick screen as a feature. Just put the fourth option in (to make it logical) and maybe exclude some settings |
| 22:05:56 | Strife89 | Seconded. |
| 22:06:43 | pixelma | the quickscreen is probably one of the reasons for quite a few support question like "Where is my music?" etc. |
| 22:07:36 | Strife89 | Perhaps one could put the text "Quickscreen" in the middle, if the font and screen space allow it. |
| 22:10:12 | shiftplusone | what's this 'quickscreen' everyone's talking about, my build is relatively new and I can't figure out what this is about O_o |
| 22:10:31 | Strife89 | This is probably just asking for bloat, but perhaps a brief description screen could appear the first time the user accesses it. It disables the keys for a second or two so that the user doesn't accidentally remove it in a button-mashing frenzy. |
| 22:11:10 | Strife89 | shiftplusone: From the While Playing Screen, one can access the "Quickscreen" to adjust commonly changed settings. |
| 22:11:22 | * | bluebrother points shiftplusone to the manual ... |
| 22:11:42 | pixelma | shiftplusone: the basic quickscreen is explained in the manual, its new feature "customisability" is not though |
| 22:11:45 | bluebrother | Strife89: you can access the quickscreen from other screens as well |
| 22:11:50 | gevaerts | Strife89: that would be bloat, yes |
| 22:12:01 | pixelma | bluebrother: ? |
| 22:12:30 | fml | pixelma: ! |
| 22:12:52 | Strife89 | gevaerts: Mmm. Never hurts to suggest. :) |
| 22:13:43 | BigBambi | It would also be hugely annoying |
| 22:14:02 | bluebrother | pixelma: f.e. in the main menu I can bring up the quickscreen on my e200 |
| 22:14:03 | Strife89 | BigBambi: "the first time the user accesses it" |
| 22:14:06 | gevaerts | Strife89: can your feature have a paperclip? |
| 22:14:25 | BigBambi | And how would that be done? In a file? |
| 22:14:51 | BigBambi | i.e. how would it know it was the first time? |
| 22:15:08 | * | BigBambi stands by annoying and bloaty and a bad idea :) |
| 22:15:11 | Bagder | it would first have to ask that ;-) |
| 22:15:23 | bluebrother | Strife89: how about making the quickscreen a normal menu instead? ;-) |
| 22:15:33 | Strife89 | BigBambi: Perhaps the config file. |
| 22:15:34 | gevaerts | BigBambi: it would be a setting, and you can set it using the quickscreen :) |
| 22:15:45 | bluebrother | remove doom! |
| 22:15:49 | Strife89 | Just a 0/1 variable. |
| 22:15:51 | BigBambi | Strife89: So then we have to wait for a spin up too? Stil bad idea :) |
| 22:16:16 | Strife89 | BigBambi: Doesn't Rockbox load/create the whole config file at startup |
| 22:16:17 | Strife89 | ? |
| 22:16:30 | pixelma | bluebrother: yes, ok. just checked the keymaps a bit, never knew. Well I got used to Rockbox without quickscreen and never really looked for such a thing |
| 22:16:43 | BigBambi | Strife89: You aren't going to win :) |
| 22:17:10 | Strife89 | I know, I'm just answering theoretical questions now. |
| 22:17:18 | pixelma | and since the invention of "Insert Shuffled" on a directory, I never missed it |
| 22:19:36 | Strife89 | I've used the quickscreen quite a bit to change the Repeat setting. |
| 22:20:45 | | Quit Strife89 ("Off to vote.") |
| 22:21:38 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)") |
| 22:22:22 | shiftplusone | Ah ok, now I see the new feature... From a user's perspective, I like it. |
| 22:23:22 | bluebrother | well, the problem is that it isn't working as intended. The original idea was to have a button combo change the settings, not to enter a screen, then change a setting, then leave it |
| 22:24:58 | shiftplusone | don't get it, but ok. |
| 22:26:25 | * | gevaerts thinks that if bloat==bad and features==good, the discussion needs to be about how to add features without reducing the playback buffer |
| 22:26:30 | bluebrother | well, the idea is like press menu + left -> change "left" item on quick menu |
| 22:27:37 | | Quit tvelocity[a] (Connection timed out) |
| 22:27:40 | amiconn | w00t! |
| 22:27:53 | bluebrother | another useless feature? |
| 22:28:06 | * | amiconn has ape -c1000 *playing* without skips *on PP5002* |
| 22:28:21 | gevaerts | bluebrother: apparently :) |
| 22:28:39 | shiftplusone | as in, make it cycle through the items while in the quick screen rather than set it in settings? |
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| 22:29:15 | | Quit bughunter2 ("bye") |
| 22:29:18 | gevaerts | amiconn: now -c2000 ;) |
| 22:29:41 | amiconn | -c2000 will be possible on PP by using dualcore |
| 22:30:17 | amiconn | (dualcore will also offload core 0 a bit for -c1000) |
| 22:30:55 | amiconn | But -c1000 playing w/o skips means my arm division is more efficient than libgcc's :) |
| 22:31:58 | amiconn | 136% realtime (up from 113%) |
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| 22:32:47 | | Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:32:53 | * | gevaerts will now show his total ignorance about arm again |
| 22:33:28 | gevaerts | Would that also mean that the 50% realtime on -c5000 in the beast can be improved significantly? |
| 22:33:38 | amiconn | no |
| 22:33:44 | amiconn | The beast is armv6 |
| 22:34:38 | gevaerts | hm, ok |
| 22:34:39 | amiconn | And I don't see a possibility for further optimising the libgcc division for armv5 and higher |
| 22:34:45 | * | linuxstb starts looking for an even more inefficent codec than APE |
| 22:35:25 | amiconn | The higher compression levels only add filtering (with can be rather efficiently done by the armv6 simd instructions). They don't add divisions |
| 22:36:00 | amiconn | My optimisations will help PP, Gigabeat F/X, and AS3525 (which is also armv4) |
| 22:36:36 | amiconn | *optimisation |
| 22:36:38 | gevaerts | So realtime -c5000 on a max-clocked beast remains tantalizingly close :) |
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| 22:36:58 | amiconn | Overclock it a little... |
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| 22:37:57 | gevaerts | I guess that it probably doesn't need the same 10% to 30% margin as the slower targets |
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| 22:39:42 | amiconn | My optimisation for armv4 is based on the armv5(+) routine, btw. "Just" replacing two 'clz' instructions and surrounding stuff (6 insns) by a 17-insns binsearch |
| 22:40:47 | saratoga | theres always AAC optimizations |
| 22:41:07 | saratoga | profiling 2 min of AAC-HE on a sansa took almost an hour |
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| 22:42:36 | * | amiconn leaves aac optimisations to someone else |
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| 22:43:05 | amiconn | I'm not really interested in AAC. Optimising APE is more fun... |
| 22:43:45 | gevaerts | The difference between getting 3% more runtime vs getting things to run at all? |
| 22:44:08 | saratoga | we can't run AAC-HE at all on anything but gigabeats |
| 22:44:40 | amiconn | Maybe, but afaik -HE is for high compression, i.e. low quality |
| 22:45:08 | saratoga | HE can be generally transparent, so its not useless |
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| 22:46:58 | * | linuxstb was surprisingly impressed with an AAC-HE file he heard (around 64kbps IIRC) |
| 22:47:33 | funman | i understood low quality was with the simple profile |
| 22:47:42 | funman | i mean low complexity |
| 22:47:59 | funman | i mean "low quality comes with the low complexity profile" (sorry..) |
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| 22:56:16 | pixelma | Bagder: still around? |
| 22:56:33 | Bagder | yes |
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| 22:57:11 | * | gevaerts looks for Mr Someone |
| 22:57:19 | * | amiconn isn't sure what header to put into his udiv32-armv4.S |
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| 22:57:37 | pixelma | could you rename the "Quickscreen" wiki page to "QuickScreen" or something to make it a proper wiki word. It's currently not linked inside the wiki (e.g. from WebHome) |
| 22:57:48 | funman | amiconn: rockbox, with a mention "adapted from xxx" ? |
| 22:58:07 | pixelma | Bagder: that was supposed to be a question ;) |
| 22:58:08 | amiconn | There's a further complication: libdemac has yet another header |
| 22:59:13 | Bagder | pixelma: done! |
| 22:59:20 | amiconn | linuxstb: opinions? |
| 22:59:31 | pixelma | Bagder: thanks |
| 23:00 |
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| 23:02:04 | amiconn | About 1/3 of the code lines are my code, about 2/3 are libgcc code (but also partially adjusted), and 2 lines are rockbox specific (.icode handling) |
| 23:02:32 | * | pixelma guesses pressing "left" in the beloved quickscreen on the D2 exits the quickscreen instead of adjusting the setting, right? |
| 23:02:53 | linuxstb | amiconn: What's the libgcc license? It sounds like a modification of that code. |
| 23:02:59 | amiconn | libgcc is gpl v2 or later, with a relaxation |
| 23:04:08 | linuxstb | Would this code make sense in the codec lib? |
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| 23:04:40 | amiconn | Not sure. It only handles unsigned 32/32 division, and only for armv4 |
| 23:04:53 | amiconn | Readding the armv5(+) stuff would be simple, but pointless... |
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| 23:05:49 | amiconn | Adding support for signed division would also be possible, libgcc style (i.e. just some sign pre/postprocessing, then calling the unsigned division routine) |
| 23:05:51 | * | funman updated his forum post on the sansav2 SD init |
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| 23:06:36 | bertrik | good news or bad news? |
| 23:07:03 | funman | no bad news, only something to help understanding what the OF does |
| 23:07:56 | amiconn | Maybe I should post a patch for libgcc as well.... but even if they include it, PP5002 would need its own copy |
| 23:08:52 | funman | remove some uncertainties, and add more than it removes :) |
| 23:08:55 | amiconn | Well, unless there's some linker voodoo to change sections |
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| 23:10:27 | bertrik | I'm still a bit confused about this D7 pin, it controls the button light and apparently does something with a pull-up when in SD/MCI mode and I think kugel reported some trouble with the display if buttonlight was not enabled |
| 23:10:35 | | Quit tyfoo (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:10:52 | amiconn | libgcc is built for .text. Problem is that even with some black magic, moving just __udivsi3 to IRAM wouldn't be sufficient. The double-precision division (also use in the ape codec, but just for calculating the seek position) reuses the single-precision one, and libgcc uses short calls all over |
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| 23:11:22 | funman | bertrik: we must not take every code we see as useful, there may be leftovers from a cross-platform devkit |
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| 23:19:40 | DerPapst | Bagder: Can you commit FS #9527? I'm sure Zagor wouldn't mind and even if there is always svn revert. And right now the irc reader is almost unusable with ff (and other browsers not as broken as IE 6) ;) |
| 23:21:20 | Bagder | I'll save that for Zagor |
| 23:21:51 | DerPapst | meh.. ok. |
| 23:21:52 | DerPapst | :P |
| 23:22:12 | DerPapst | can you remind him if he pops in please? |
| 23:22:50 | Bagder | he too subscribes to the tracker mailing list so he knows |
| 23:23:16 | DerPapst | mkay |
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