| 00:00:42 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 00:02:27 | * | bluebrother has an idea |
| 00:03:04 | Zagor | could the problem be in the converters? |
| 00:03:28 | Zagor | (or whatever the tools that create pdf and html from tex are called) |
| 00:03:35 | | Quit ap0 ("Baļ") |
| 00:04:09 | bluebrother | the pdf is created directly, so there is no actual conversion. |
| 00:04:48 | | Quit {phoenix} (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:05:16 | | Join dany_21a_ [0] (n=dan@85-127-9-12.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 00:06:38 | Zagor | ok |
| 00:17:16 | | Quit dany_21a (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 00:18:10 | kugel | bluebrother: I'd be able to test your finding on my fuze with a microsd, but unfortunately, due to the lack of buttons, I cannot get past the main menu anyway |
| 00:20:50 | kugel | dany_21a_: hey, how's your new fuze going? |
| 00:21:06 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: have you tried the final backlight fading patch? |
| 00:21:25 | | Quit Horschti (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:21:37 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Not yet. Beer called. |
| 00:21:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | I have a little time, so let me try now. |
| 00:22:01 | | Join Horschti [0] (n=Horscht@p4FD4BFE0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:22:22 | | Nick Horschti is now known as Horscht (n=Horscht@p4FD4BFE0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:24:00 | bluebrother | kugel: my findings on fuze? |
| 00:26:08 | kugel | bluebrother: test your findings on my fuze |
| 00:26:30 | * | bluebrother wonders what his findings were |
| 00:27:04 | kugel | well, http://dict.leo.org/?lp=ende&search=finding |
| 00:27:09 | kugel | ahh |
| 00:27:15 | kugel | lol |
| 00:27:18 | * | pixelma guesses kugel confuses the Dominiks |
| 00:27:28 | bluebrother | I know some basic english at least ... |
| 00:27:41 | kugel | bluebrother: sorry, I read your sentence wrong |
| 00:27:52 | * | bluebrother felt like getting mixed up with someone else :) |
| 00:27:52 | kugel | and pixelma is right :S |
| 00:28:16 | kugel | sorry :/ |
| 00:28:36 | * | kugel read "wonders what findings were" |
| 00:28:57 | * | bluebrother hands kugel an s/were/are/ for that misunderstanding :) |
| 00:29:37 | kugel | thanks :) I'm gonna keep it for future reference |
| 00:30:15 | kugel | the "his" was causing the missunderstand though |
| 00:30:33 | | Join einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@p5B0322D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:30:43 | kugel | domonoky: I'd be able to test your finding on my fuze with a microsd, but unfortunately, due to the lack of buttons, I cannot get past the main menu anyway |
| 00:30:47 | kugel | another try :p |
| 00:34:02 | dany_21a_ | hi kugel (and others) |
| 00:34:25 | | Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:35:15 | dany_21a_ | have got my (new) fuze yesterday... prior i have killed (a merly new) fuze... dont know if it helps someone, have put some pictures of the inside online http://www.flickr.com/photos/90053035@N00/sets/72157608788748182/ (is already linked in the wiki) |
| 00:36:58 | | Quit ender` (" The last time someone listened to a Bush, a bunch of people wandered in the desert for 40 years.") |
| 00:37:07 | dany_21a_ | i have installed the current svn version on the defunct (the buttons dont work anymore - except the homebutton) - it only reaches "Loading firmware"... will try the CCU_IO later |
| 00:38:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Building now... gotta go soon though. |
| 00:42:24 | domonoky | kugel: still testing would be nice, to see if the sd-driver works without the CCU_IO... (if it doesnt, you wont see the main-menu .-) ) |
| 00:44:13 | | Join hollanbm [0] (n=hollanbm@137.112.136.219) |
| 00:44:34 | hollanbm | hey all, i was wondering if anyone had experience configuring loader2 |
| 00:44:47 | Llorean | hollanbm: Loader2 is iPodLinux's software, you should ask them. |
| 00:44:49 | BigBambi | hollanbm: You need to aks ipodlinux about that |
| 00:45:14 | hollanbm | i just figured that since i needed to add a line for rockbox i should ask here |
| 00:45:23 | hollanbm | do you happen to know there channel |
| 00:45:32 | LambdaCalculus37 | Try #ipl or #ipodlinux |
| 00:45:59 | scorche | #ipodlinux not #ipl |
| 00:46:19 | LambdaCalculus37 | scorche: Thanks, I knew it was one of the two but wasn't 100% sure. |
| 00:47:15 | hollanbm | i got it |
| 00:47:19 | hollanbm | thx guys! |
| 00:49:29 | hollanbm | (sighs) there channel is dead basically |
| 00:49:45 | hollanbm | anyone here think they might be able to help? |
| 00:49:52 | LambdaCalculus37 | Then ask on their mailing list, but very honestly, we can't help you out with Loader2. |
| 00:50:46 | hollanbm | I would think people would use there bootloader versus the rockbox one, that way one can choose which OS he would like |
| 00:50:50 | BigBambi | hollanbm: This is a Rockbox channel, we support the Rockbox bootloader |
| 00:51:06 | hollanbm | okay, well then I'm having problems with it |
| 00:51:08 | BigBambi | You can chose with the Rockbox bootloader too |
| 00:51:14 | hollanbm | really? |
| 00:51:15 | BigBambi | It just doesn give you a menu |
| 00:51:37 | BigBambi | *doesn't |
| 00:52:04 | hollanbm | well everytime i plug my iPod running rockbox into my computer through USB it reboots directly into Apple OS |
| 00:52:07 | hollanbm | which i dont want |
| 00:52:16 | Llorean | You don't want USB? |
| 00:52:26 | hollanbm | no, i dont want to use/see apple OS at all |
| 00:52:31 | BigBambi | You have to |
| 00:52:40 | BigBambi | Rockbox doesn have USB yet for your ipod |
| 00:52:43 | Llorean | Rockbox doesn't have USB yet, so the only way to connect to your computer is through Apple right now |
| 00:53:00 | BigBambi | Besides, that isn't the bootloader |
| 00:53:03 | hollanbm | through the emergency disk mode right? |
| 00:53:08 | BigBambi | Or the OF |
| 00:53:20 | hollanbm | its when i disconncect that it reboots into apple OS |
| 00:53:28 | Llorean | Do you have Hold on? |
| 00:53:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | Because you're probably leaving the hold switch on. |
| 00:53:38 | hollanbm | yes |
| 00:53:41 | hollanbm | sometimes |
| 00:53:43 | BigBambi | There you go then |
| 00:53:49 | hollanbm | what does that mean? |
| 00:53:52 | BigBambi | That is how you dual bot with the Rockbox bootloader |
| 00:54:01 | hollanbm | the hold switch on reboot? |
| 00:54:08 | LambdaCalculus37 | Clicking the hold switch on when you turn on your iPod boots the OF. |
| 00:54:10 | BigBambi | on boot, yes |
| 00:54:14 | BigBambi | The manual tells you this |
| 00:54:25 | hollanbm | ^_^ |
| 00:54:47 | hollanbm | I did not know the bootloader could dual boot which is why i thought i had a problem |
| 00:54:56 | hollanbm | time to get rid of that loader2 shit then |
| 00:54:58 | BigBambi | That is why reading the manual is recommended |
| 00:55:06 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 00:55:25 | LambdaCalculus37 | Yes, reading is fundamental. ;) |
| 00:56:16 | hollanbm | thx guys! |
| 00:56:58 | hollanbm | grrr, the rockbox utility will not let me overwrite loader2 |
| 00:57:19 | hollanbm | it says the iPod could not open the iPod |
| 00:57:27 | BigBambi | Admin rights? |
| 00:57:38 | hollanbm | I will try running the program as sudo |
| 00:57:39 | BigBambi | As in, do you have admin rights |
| 00:57:40 | LambdaCalculus37 | And how does an iPod recursively open itself? |
| 00:57:49 | BigBambi | hollanbm: That is also in the manual I believe |
| 00:57:55 | BigBambi | hollanbm: Please read it |
| 00:58:07 | hollanbm | the manual for the rockbox utility? |
| 00:58:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | And Rockbox itself. |
| 00:58:40 | LambdaCalculus37 | Rockbox Utility has a wiki page. http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtility |
| 00:58:59 | hollanbm | Ive read the wikis |
| 00:59:00 | | Join Slack_ [0] (n=brett@12-218-63-169.client.mchsi.com) |
| 00:59:11 | BigBambi | hollanbm: The Rockbox manual |
| 00:59:25 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Successful build, but I've gotta go now. My LUG guys are showing up for some beer time. |
| 00:59:37 | * | LambdaCalculus37 is off to enjoy some beer |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:20 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Ka-chunka") |
| 01:00:50 | BigBambi | Actually, I'm not sure the manual does tell you to use admin/root rights with rbutil |
| 01:02:12 | hollanbm | grrr damn linux wont let me open the rbutility from the command line |
| 01:02:39 | | Quit hollanbm ("Leaving") |
| 01:03:50 | linuxstb | Hmm, that's the second person in about two days who used loader2 because they didn't think the Rockbox bootloader could dual-boot, rather than because it has a pretty menu... |
| 01:04:29 | BigBambi | People should read the manual/search... :) |
| 01:06:54 | | Join domonoky1 [0] (n=Domonoky@g229113168.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 01:08:14 | BigBambi | Is it all ipods and sansas that need root/admin to install the bootloader? |
| 01:08:22 | | Join Slack__ [0] (n=brett@12-218-63-169.client.mchsi.com) |
| 01:08:22 | | Quit Slack_ (Operation timed out) |
| 01:08:28 | BigBambi | And do any others? |
| 01:08:41 | Llorean | It should be possible to do it without root/admin for Sansas, right? |
| 01:08:53 | BigBambi | I'm not sure :) |
| 01:08:59 | Llorean | Well, they require it now. |
| 01:09:04 | BigBambi | OK |
| 01:09:15 | linuxstb | It depends on your OS as well - you don't need admin/root rights, just write access to removable raw disk devices. |
| 01:09:33 | BigBambi | I'm adding a note to the manual to run rbutil as root/admin where required |
| 01:09:41 | Llorean | But I *think* that we, as an alternative, can just put a PP5022.MI4 on the device containing a dump of its current firmware with a Rockbox bootloader and next reboot it'll upgrade itself? |
| 01:09:54 | BigBambi | linuxstb: So are there any OSs I should exclude? |
| 01:10:02 | Llorean | BigBambi: I *think* current versions of RBUtil are supposed to tell you when you need more privileges? |
| 01:10:28 | BigBambi | Llorean: I'll try it out |
| 01:10:32 | linuxstb | I'm almost certain you don't need to be root on OS X. |
| 01:10:40 | BigBambi | Llorean: Enough people seem to miss it though |
| 01:11:02 | linuxstb | But I think you do on Windows, and on most Linux distros (in their default configuration). |
| 01:11:39 | BigBambi | OK |
| 01:15:38 | linuxstb | But I thought rbutil used the USB PIDs to detect devices? |
| 01:16:40 | BigBambi | I think it does where possible |
| 01:16:43 | BigBambi | Why? |
| 01:17:32 | linuxstb | If it detects a device via USB PIDs, but then can't find the raw disk device, then the reason is almost certainly going to be permissions. |
| 01:17:41 | linuxstb | So it could give a more helpful error. |
| 01:17:46 | BigBambi | Very true |
| 01:18:16 | BigBambi | I haven't tried it, Llorean seemed to think that it might |
| 01:18:36 | BigBambi | Still, I think a note in the manual would be useful - we do tell people to read it :) |
| 01:18:39 | pixelma | there's a hint for it in the "manual bootloader installation" part and a note that if you are stuck in the process using the Rockbox Utility you should have a look at that section, but: I know the installation chapter leaves a bit to be desired (and I started collecting info for a restructuring but having to write a lot of stuff in English...) |
| 01:19:05 | pixelma | the note is in the "automated installation" section, of course |
| 01:19:24 | BigBambi | I don't mind the writing bit, I get a bit lost in all the options and latex stuff |
| 01:21:02 | pixelma | I should really get my notes into a list form and ask for help in the forums or so :\ |
| 01:21:32 | pixelma | help in making a text out of it |
| 01:21:34 | BigBambi | I will gladly write stuff :) |
| 01:23:28 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:23:32 | | Part toffe82 |
| 01:24:08 | BigBambi | At the moment I have just a little warning in the automatic section saying "\opt{ipod,sansa}{\warn{On Linux and Windows, it is necessary to run \textsc{Rockbox Utility} with root or administrator rights respectively in order to install the bootloader. If you are simply updating Rockbox, this is not required.}}" |
| 01:24:13 | | Quit sin613 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:24:30 | BigBambi | Do you think it is worth adding something like that, or would you rather wait for a bigger rework? |
| 01:26:47 | pixelma | I don't know when this rework will happen, so better add it now to have something at least |
| 01:27:14 | BigBambi | OK, well I can't add it so I'll check I haven't broken anything then post it someplace :) |
| 01:27:33 | | Part dany_21a_ |
| 01:27:44 | BigBambi | Although it is just that line in installation.tex |
| 01:27:51 | linuxstb | amiconn: Have you looked at the latest bmp resize patch on flyspray? |
| 01:28:19 | pixelma | BigBambi: somehow I too think that the Rockbox Utility tells you about missing rights, but it could be that it only works in XP or so |
| 01:28:58 | | Quit bluebrother ("leaving") |
| 01:28:58 | BigBambi | pixelma: It may well do, but I think we have enough people that ask to justify it - at least this way when we say RTFM it is justifyable :) |
| 01:29:33 | pixelma | yeah, agreed |
| 01:29:46 | domonoky1 | yes, there is rights checking in rbutil, but i think it works only on windows... |
| 01:30:08 | domonoky1 | so having it in the manual would be good :-) |
| 01:30:25 | * | linuxstb still wonders why the Windows version of rbutil is distributed as a zipped exe file... |
| 01:30:51 | domonoky1 | stupid web "filters" ... |
| 01:31:16 | linuxstb | Really? No-one else seems to have problems - many Windows programs are distributed as .exe files. |
| 01:31:43 | linuxstb | And if it really is a problem, just make a zip file available as a second download option. |
| 01:31:52 | pixelma | BigBambi: I just wonder about the \textsc , is it used somewhere else (directly)? |
| 01:31:55 | domonoky1 | maybe we should just try, and see if we get complains :-) |
| 01:32:29 | BigBambi | pixelma: Yes, in the line below where I added it - that? why I used it :) |
| 01:33:12 | BigBambi | The section that starts "\warn{When first starting \textsc{Rockbox Utility} run ``Autodetect'', |
| 01:33:12 | BigBambi | found in the configuration dialog" |
| 01:34:31 | pixelma | ok, I usually just copy from existing parts too :) |
| 01:34:51 | BigBambi | Often the best way, not always :) |
| 01:35:04 | | Quit domonoky1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:36:45 | Unhelpful | ah-HA... the missing files weren't *from* svn, they were generated |
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| 01:57:22 | kugel | domonoky: (for the logs) I still cannot get past the bootlogo (the bootlogo of the main binary, not bootload). The bootlogo is always shifted left by some 20pixel. Sometimes it even says "No partition found". This http://pastebin.ca/1256591 is my svn diff, maybe you made some more changes? |
| 01:59:36 | kugel | domonoky: (for logs again). If I don't remove (i.e.if I don't do "#if defined(HAVE_MULTIVOLUME) && 0)") the init of the external sd card I always get ata error -1 (like before). So removing that CCU_IO didn't change anything for me. Maybe I haven't disabled it enough? |
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| 02:47:36 | pixelma2 | hmm... just noticed that the last H100 build also threw such a weird error as seen in OndioSP and Player builds before lately. But then the H100s have something like rombox too (although the error message doesn't mention it, just trying to find relations between the targets that fail) |
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| 03:00 |
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| 03:18:43 | reynaldo_abc | hello |
| 03:19:32 | reynaldo_abc | I will be installing rockbox in my mp3 in a few days, i just came to the question that if i use rockbox utility does it install the rockbox bootloader too? or i have to manually install? |
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| 03:25:55 | soap | it installs the bootloader as well. |
| 03:30:23 | advcomp2019 | soap, he left, but i see the person on abi tho |
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| 05:38:46 | Hillshum | Will the VMWare RB environment image run under VirtualBox? |
| 05:45:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:46:31 | Hillshum | Okay, so I logged in at a command line, how do I get X going? |
| 05:48:31 | Hillshum | I've pushed Ctrl+Alt+F7, but that doesn't work |
| 05:55:22 | blkhawk- | dont ask me |
| 05:55:29 | blkhawk- | i just woke up |
| 05:55:46 | ameyer | log into a console and run "startx" |
| 05:55:49 | ameyer | I think |
| 05:57:16 | | Join Darksair [0] (n=user@123.112.117.135) |
| 05:57:36 | Hillshum | lots of error data |
| 05:58:27 | ameyer | if it's anything like running Linux on actual hardware, that's probably not actually errors |
| 05:58:57 | ameyer | and X should eventually start |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:54 | Hillshum | it didn't |
| 06:01:13 | Hillshum | I think the Disk image isn't fully working |
| 06:03:23 | Hillshum | Screen flashes, comes back with text |
| 06:03:40 | Hillshum | Shouldn't tty7 have X already? |
| 06:04:47 | ameyer | depends on wheter gdm/kdm/xdm is running |
| 06:04:51 | ameyer | or not |
| 06:06:39 | Hillshum | How do I check? |
| 06:07:12 | ameyer | ps aux | grep dm |
| 06:07:16 | ameyer | I think |
| 06:07:51 | Hillshum | one line? |
| 06:07:57 | ameyer | yes |
| 06:09:38 | Hillshum | nada |
| 06:13:47 | Hillshum | i get nothing from that |
| 06:16:06 | ameyer | wow... |
| 06:16:24 | ameyer | looking at the wiki page, I'm completely lost |
| 06:17:43 | * | ameyer doesn't think he's ever successfully dealt with XFree86 |
| 06:21:21 | Hillshum | i think it's supposet to work fine :) |
| 06:22:47 | Hillshum | I accedently ctrl alt deled it and it spat out some stuff indicating some x stuff was running |
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| 06:25:27 | Hillshum | last thing on tty1 is "Starting X display manager: xdm" |
| 06:25:58 | ameyer | I know this isn't the Linux way, but reboot? |
| 06:26:06 | ameyer | your vmware image obviously |
| 06:26:19 | Hillshum | it then goes blank and looks like it is going to x |
| 06:26:24 | Hillshum | did once |
| 06:28:06 | Hillshum | same |
| 06:28:10 | Hillshum | as always |
| 06:31:51 | Hillshum | "Right click on Xshells and Eterms" ?? |
| 06:34:10 | ameyer | that'd require X and Fluxbox to be working |
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| 06:38:22 | Hillshum | here's the last bit of output http://cid-8b808dcb12a4af96.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/rockboxvm.bmp |
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| 06:57:45 | synergist | windows live's in ur persnal shit, hostin ur pics |
| 06:58:01 | * | synergist felt oddly compelled to say that, apologies. think it's too much coca cola |
| 06:59:23 | ameyer | windows live? |
| 06:59:32 | ameyer | isn't that an oxymoron? |
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| 10:47:31 | aaronwi | hello |
| 10:49:53 | n1s | hi |
| 10:57:28 | aaronwi | any more progress on the creative zen:M ? I know its been going on for a year now, lost track |
| 10:58:16 | | Nick JdGordon|afk is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 10:58:19 | n1s | aaronwi: all info on in progress ports are (or at least should be) in their respective forum threads |
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| 11:49:21 | n1s | hmm, the "generic_i2c" driver in firmware/drivers is not used anywhere and not even in SOURCES, and from looking at the history it seems it was never used, should it go away? |
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| 14:49:34 | * | bluebrother found something regarding \settings{} in the manual |
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| 15:42:51 | bluebrother | what do people think about FS #9554? I think it's as pointless as the "bug" it refers to |
| 15:45:08 | JdGordon | in the bug task he says the rockbox way makes more sense... |
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| 15:46:16 | bluebrother | so why does it deserve a patch at all? |
| 15:46:26 | linuxstb | bluebrother: Do you have an iaudio remote? |
| 15:46:37 | bluebrother | linuxstb: no. |
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| 15:47:09 | bluebrother | but if he even tells the Rockbox way makes more sense than the OF one, why is there a point in modifying Rockbox to follow the OF mapping? |
| 15:47:56 | JdGordon | its the same guy... maybe he has split personality and one of him likes the of more and it drives him (more) crazy when his other half gets into rb? |
| 15:48:02 | linuxstb | He doesn't say "makes more sense", he says "probably makes more logical sense"... I think an iaudio user/dev should judge. |
| 15:48:03 | * | JdGordon should probably goto bed |
| 15:49:02 | | Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 15:49:38 | bluebrother | well, "consistency is more important for a control that relies on muscle memory" sounds pretty much to me as it's simply a "I'm used to the other way". |
| 15:49:59 | linuxstb | In which case, is there a reason for Rockbox to do it the opposite way? |
| 15:50:25 | bluebrother | I guess so ;-) |
| 15:50:43 | linuxstb | Without knowing what the remote looks like, I would imagine it's a pretty arbitrary choice. |
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| 15:55:25 | bluebrother | found an image: http://www.the-blueprints.com/index.php?blueprints/misc/iaudio/3392/view/iaudio_m3_remote_control/ |
| 15:57:49 | soap | does any other target / remote have a wheel of such orientation? |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:06 | bluebrother | the h100 lcd remote has a similar "wheel", though it's labelled << / Menu / >> |
| 16:00:54 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:00:59 | bluebrother | just checked, that has >> go down in lists, << go up |
| 16:01:04 | soap | and does moving your thumb toward the top of the remote have the same keymapping as this remote? |
| 16:01:23 | soap | ahh - so it's a side to side wheel, not a top to bottom wheel? |
| 16:01:31 | soap | (h100 LCD remote) |
| 16:01:32 | bluebrother | that is at the top of the remote. |
| 16:02:34 | soap | Looking at the pictures of the remote and at the patcher's description, the Rockbox mapping seems logical. |
| 16:03:03 | soap | I was just curious if it was consistent across targets with similar wheels (if any existed). |
| 16:03:08 | bluebrother | soap: http://picasaweb.google.com/peturbox/RockboxDevcon2008#5216945741059780466 |
| 16:03:32 | bluebrother | the leftmost one. It's the "wheel" thats on the top left (upper right on the picture) |
| 16:04:14 | bluebrother | also, from the m3 pictures I think the button in question is on the top edge too |
| 16:04:29 | soap | ahh, that remote looks designed to be used rotated 90 degrees from the iAudio one. |
| 16:05:15 | linuxstb | Comparing with the wheel targets, the iaudio behaviour seems more consistent - i.e. "+" moves forward, "-" moves back. |
| 16:05:21 | | Quit bmbl ("Woah!") |
| 16:05:28 | soap | yes, looks like the M3 is on the side, thus the wheel goes up and down. I assume the iRiver one, though is a landscape oriented screen, thus the wheel is going side to side. |
| 16:06:05 | bluebrother | checking config-iaudiom3.h also tells that the lcd is in landscape mode, so the picture is rotated 90 degrees |
| 16:06:19 | soap | so westerners would assume the iRiver one goes "forward" when the wheel is moved to the right. |
| 16:06:43 | bluebrother | if forwards maps to down on lists ;-) |
| 16:07:25 | bluebrother | comparing with the ipods scroll wheel, the "east" part is up -> down in lists, the "west" part up -> up in list |
| 16:07:55 | soap | is the M3 remote is held with the menu wheel on the bottom of the unit, moving the wheel right = forward = menus should go down, IMHO. |
| 16:08:11 | soap | which is counter to how it is mapped now. |
| 16:10:03 | soap | *"IF the M3 remote is held..." |
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| 16:10:50 | bluebrother | from reading the task + moves up in RB right now. Which is, compared with the wheel on scrollwheel targets, consistent −− moving to the right on the bottom part of the wheel moves up in lists |
| 16:12:06 | bluebrother | well, the picture looks to me as the remote is held that you can read the "HDD ..." text, and unless I get the picture wrong this means the Menu / vol button is at the bottom with vol+ being right |
| 16:13:29 | bluebrother | in which case right -> up seems more logical to me than the other way round |
| 16:13:32 | soap | "moving to the right on the bottom part of the wheel moves up in lists" I totally agree that normally counter-clockwise rotation = up, but is that a valid consideration when your only interface with a wheel is upside down? |
| 16:14:10 | soap | is it really a clockwise / counterclockwise interface at that point or a left / right interface at that point? |
| 16:14:39 | bluebrother | well, at least I would assume this. |
| 16:14:42 | soap | I would argue that when you only have 60 degrees of exposed wheel it is now a left / right interface and not a wheel interface. |
| 16:15:27 | bluebrother | on the h100 remote it is a "wheel", but you can't turn it completely. Still I would consider it as a wheel (or wheel-like) interface. |
| 16:17:05 | | Join LinuxMafia [0] (n=awatt@CPE000e081cbf7a-CM00159a642d7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:17:19 | LinuxMafia | hi all |
| 16:18:12 | LinuxMafia | i formatted my sansa loader /rockbox loader by mistake , what should i do? |
| 16:18:53 | bluebrother | what means "formatted loader"? |
| 16:19:26 | LinuxMafia | bluebrother, there is 20MB for sansa loaders right? i formatted it |
| 16:20:03 | LinuxMafia | bluebrother, now when i turn on my sansa nothing happens , just the circle light on |
| 16:20:28 | bluebrother | that's the recovery partition. |
| 16:20:54 | bluebrother | that's not the loader itself. check http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaE200Unbrick |
| 16:21:07 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) |
| 16:21:31 | LinuxMafia | bluebrother, but laoder wont load now |
| 16:23:45 | bluebrother | so what? You need e200tool to fix this. |
| 16:23:51 | bluebrother | the wiki page describes this. |
| 16:24:14 | LinuxMafia | cool |
| 16:24:23 | LinuxMafia | bluebrother, thanks alot |
| 16:24:32 | LinuxMafia | can i do that easily? |
| 16:25:22 | LinuxMafia | thanks alot |
| 16:25:36 | bluebrother | well, depends on your computer knowledge. Why don't you read the page first, then ask questions? |
| 16:27:21 | linuxstb | Isn't that just the firmware partition? IIUC, the recovery partition is just a ramdisk visible in recovery mode. |
| 16:27:27 | LinuxMafia | bluebrother, i got it |
| 16:27:34 | LinuxMafia | i have to do manufactore recovery |
| 16:35:17 | | Join nelek [0] (n=nope@213.219.139.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 16:36:55 | nelek | where can i see the status of proposed new rockbox functionality? |
| 16:37:33 | nelek | i proposed a file system driver a while ago and it was added somewhere and i'd like to follow up on if something has happened with it or not from time to time |
| 16:38:10 | linuxstb | There's not really anywhere like that. |
| 16:42:34 | bluebrother | file system driver? Doesn't sound to me like something that has an actual chance of getting worked on anyway |
| 16:44:01 | LinuxMafia | i can not mount the device |
| 16:44:42 | bluebrother | you don't need to mount it for e200tool |
| 16:44:49 | LinuxMafia | i hold down the center buttom , but this is all i get |
| 16:44:55 | LinuxMafia | usb 2-5.2: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 12 |
| 16:44:55 | LinuxMafia | usb 2-5.2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice |
| 16:45:11 | LinuxMafia | i dont know which device it is |
| 16:45:34 | linuxstb | You don't need to know - e200tool will find it. |
| 16:45:43 | LinuxMafia | oh |
| 16:45:46 | LinuxMafia | cool |
| 16:45:47 | nelek | bluebrother : why? |
| 16:46:05 | nelek | at the time they said it was a valid proposal |
| 16:46:26 | linuxstb | nelek: What kind of filesystem driver? And who were "they"? |
| 16:46:56 | LinuxMafia | wow thanks |
| 16:47:02 | nelek | a hfs+ driver |
| 16:47:24 | mrkiko | No guys - "they" are very hostile in developing another fs driver |
| 16:48:14 | nelek | i know, i got a load bs first but it makes sense to have a hfs+ driver |
| 16:48:56 | nelek | since a lot of ipods are using it by default |
| 16:50:24 | nelek | and performance of FAT on a Macintosh system is terrible |
| 16:50:49 | linuxstb | nelek: The fact is that a HFS+ driver will be a _lot_ of work for someone, and no-one cares enough to do that work. |
| 16:50:58 | nelek | why? |
| 16:51:07 | linuxstb | Why don't you do the work? |
| 16:51:17 | nelek | i can't program |
| 16:51:22 | linuxstb | You can learn. |
| 16:51:43 | nelek | i already have two jobs :( |
| 16:52:13 | mrkiko | linuxstb: I think I know a little about programming ... but I can easyli implement things with pc because I can read manuls. Reading rockbox source file actually is problematic for me |
| 16:54:47 | linuxstb | nelek: But seriously, I can't answer for everyone. But personally, FAT32 is "good enough" for me, and there are other things I would prefer to spend my limited Rockbox time on. We all do this for a hobby, so have our own priorities. |
| 16:55:31 | nelek | i know, i can only ask for something that would improve the product and make a lot of mac users happy |
| 16:56:35 | linuxstb | That's another issue - there are very mac users who contribute to Rockbox. |
| 16:56:43 | linuxstb | ^I mean very few mac users |
| 16:56:58 | LinuxMafia | i dont know which rom file i have to copy |
| 16:57:08 | nelek | since the ipod is an apple product its strange that your product actually works better with pcs than with macs |
| 16:57:32 | nelek | i could contribute, i just can't program |
| 16:57:55 | linuxstb | Rockbox isn't a product - it's a hobby. |
| 16:58:05 | domonoky | nelek: rockbox isnt a "product", and it runs on much more systems then ipods... so fat32 is the best choice (works everywhere)... |
| 16:58:18 | linuxstb | And it works on 28 different devices (only a few of which are ipods)... |
| 16:59:27 | nelek | i know |
| 16:59:34 | markun | what would be the advantage of HFS+? |
| 16:59:53 | nelek | it works better with mac systems |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:13 | markun | can you give an example? |
| 17:00:31 | nelek | the performance degradation on macs is considerable when you move your ipod to hfs+ |
| 17:00:37 | nelek | eerm to fat32 |
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| 17:01:14 | markun | copying is a lot slower you mean? |
| 17:01:25 | linuxstb | nelek: So do you not use Rockbox currently, or do you suffer with FAT32? |
| 17:01:30 | bluebrother | well, to give you a number: I wrote a rather basic FAT16 implementation about two years back. It doesn't deal with FAT32 or FAT12, it doesn't deal with long filenames etc. |
| 17:01:47 | nelek | linux i dont use rockbox atm because of it |
| 17:01:50 | bluebrother | it took me a complete work to get the basics done. HFS is much more complicated. |
| 17:02:20 | nelek | markun yes |
| 17:02:20 | bluebrother | having HFS support is of gain for a small number of users. |
| 17:02:38 | bluebrother | but the work needed is quite noticably. |
| 17:03:15 | bluebrother | complete week, not work :) |
| 17:03:17 | nelek | well, it improves your product considerably with the interaction of two products which are of the same company |
| 17:03:26 | bluebrother | nelek: Rockbox is NOT a product |
| 17:03:32 | bluebrother | face it, if you like it or not. |
| 17:03:38 | domonoky | fat32 is just the logical choice for a mobile device, everything understands fat32, even some stereo/ car audio system. |
| 17:03:45 | nelek | how do you mean not a product |
| 17:03:57 | domonoky | if mac is bad with fat32 complain to apple :-) |
| 17:04:06 | bluebrother | it is not a product. It's a project. This is a vital difference |
| 17:04:14 | nelek | no, fat32 is a crippled FS |
| 17:04:16 | markun | we're not trying to sell anything |
| 17:04:26 | nelek | but microsoft isn't fixing it |
| 17:04:40 | nelek | its a free product... |
| 17:04:40 | bluebrother | FAT32 is a rather easy file system. But it works quite reliably. |
| 17:04:48 | bluebrother | it is NOT a product. |
| 17:04:48 | markun | I think it's a good thing it's not being changed |
| 17:04:50 | bluebrother | again! |
| 17:05:02 | domonoky | nelek: wrong, fat32 is just a very simple FS, which is why it works everywhere.. its not crippled (apples fat32 driver maybe cripplet).. :-) |
| 17:05:16 | nelek | its too limited |
| 17:05:35 | LinuxMafia | damn |
| 17:05:35 | nelek | i cant even store an image backup on a file system like that |
| 17:05:39 | markun | nelek: but don't get us wrong, if someone writes a HFS+ driver we wouldn't be unhappy about it |
| 17:05:41 | LinuxMafia | i get this message |
| 17:05:45 | bluebrother | besides, FAT is an old filesystem. There is nothing one could call crippled because it doesn't support newer features someone might want to have. |
| 17:05:50 | nelek | i don't have metadata, ... |
| 17:05:53 | LinuxMafia | load main image failed |
| 17:05:53 | markun | I just don't think it would be in the default rockbox builds |
| 17:05:55 | * | domonoky mentions that rockbox doesnt even need any users... we would be fine to use rockbox just ourselfs :-) |
| 17:06:05 | LinuxMafia | switch to recovery mode |
| 17:06:06 | bluebrother | and why should MS "fix" it? Its working, and for the ones who want more features they developed NTFS. |
| 17:06:59 | nelek | because they can |
| 17:07:01 | LinuxMafia | bluebrother, any idea? |
| 17:07:05 | bluebrother | no they can't. |
| 17:07:07 | | Quit faemir (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:07:12 | markun | there isn't another FS which works everywhere and is easy to implement, is there? |
| 17:07:13 | bluebrother | "Fixing" FAT would mean breaking it. |
| 17:07:50 | bluebrother | so, apart from breaking on old, working file system they could implement a more sophisticated one. Which they did. It's called NTFS. |
| 17:08:08 | nelek | apple fixed hfs+ |
| 17:08:22 | nelek | they had a 2 gb limit, they overcame it |
| 17:08:26 | * | domonoky also doesnt understand what in fat32 would need fixing.. big file support ? |
| 17:08:28 | nelek | they added journaling |
| 17:08:46 | bluebrother | so what? I don't care about apple. They have HFS on their machines only, so they don't need to worry about compatiblilty |
| 17:08:51 | domonoky | and journaling on a flash disc would be bad.... |
| 17:08:56 | bluebrother | MS can't do that because FAT is ... almost *everywhere* |
| 17:09:31 | bluebrother | which means they would break almost everything that uses / used FAT. |
| 17:09:45 | bluebrother | so they're much better off developing a new filesystem. |
| 17:09:47 | nelek | the point is they extended their existing code with backward compatiblity, as filesystem extensions instead of a complete rewrite |
| 17:09:53 | bluebrother | which, as I said several times, they did. |
| 17:10:10 | domonoky | and the 2gb/4gb limit in fat32 is by design, you would need a fat64 for it :-) |
| 17:10:11 | bluebrother | NTFS is a complete different filesystem compared to FAT |
| 17:10:35 | | Quit Bensawsome ("The awsome is gone :(") |
| 17:10:38 | markun | ... which we also wouldn't support |
| 17:10:44 | LinuxMafia | what .rom file should i use |
| 17:10:48 | LinuxMafia | ? |
| 17:10:53 | nelek | NTFS support doesnt make sense |
| 17:11:04 | nelek | its not used on any mp3 player |
| 17:11:29 | | Join Bensawsome [0] (n=Bensawso@unaffiliated/bensawsome) |
| 17:11:37 | bluebrother | and FAT64? |
| 17:11:51 | nelek | does that even exist? |
| 17:11:51 | LinuxMafia | LinuxMafia k # ls /mnt/cd |
| 17:11:51 | LinuxMafia | version.txt |
| 17:11:59 | domonoky | nelek: lets stop this discussion here, if someone wont to do the neccessay work,fine. but "we" wont do it.. . |
| 17:12:07 | LinuxMafia | it is all i have in recovery partion , it formated |
| 17:12:10 | nelek | the ipod is only one of the 26 players but its by far the most popular player around |
| 17:12:12 | domonoky | s/wont/want/ |
| 17:12:33 | bluebrother | well, this discussion is pointless. MS definitely had reasons for not "fixing" FAT but rather developing NTFS. |
| 17:12:42 | markun | nelek: it's not the most popular rockbox target among us devs.. |
| 17:12:48 | bluebrother | the "popular" Ipods aren't supported in the newer versions anyway. |
| 17:13:26 | linuxstb | nelek: Please.... There's nothing you can say to convince the people here to spend months of their spare time implementing HFS+ |
| 17:13:39 | bluebrother | besides, Rockbox is about fun, not about "crippled filesystems". |
| 17:13:56 | nelek | you guys are so typically dev |
| 17:14:04 | markun | thanks :) |
| 17:14:18 | nelek | always finding excuses why your product doesnt work. |
| 17:14:23 | markun | we're not listening to our 'customers'? :) |
| 17:14:23 | bluebrother | nelek: feel free to go and do a basic FAT implementation yourself. Then you'll understand why FAT is a reasonable filesystem and why it's not "crippled". |
| 17:14:33 | bluebrother | rockbox is NOT A PRODUCT! |
| 17:14:50 | bluebrother | well, nelek isn't a customer anyway, even if we had a product ... |
| 17:15:05 | domonoky | nelek: again, rockbox is not a product, its just our hobby... we are just so nice to share it with you.... |
| 17:15:13 | nelek | its a product of your labor, weither you like it or not. its available for end users so its a product |
| 17:15:33 | bluebrother | markun: we're not listening to our non-customers and non-users ... I kinda like it this way :P |
| 17:15:45 | bluebrother | nelek: no. Product is something else. |
| 17:15:56 | nelek | doesnt matter if its free or of charge. someone produces it and someone consumes it. the definition of a product |
| 17:15:59 | domonoky | as we dont need users, we also dont need to listen to them... :-) |
| 17:16:05 | bluebrother | something being available doesn't make it a product. Period. |
| 17:16:18 | linuxstb | nelek: Where does that definition come from? |
| 17:16:37 | markun | nelek: we have a feature request section in the forums. Maybe you have more luck getting people convinced there. |
| 17:16:50 | bluebrother | nelek: so you are a product? Someone (your parents) "produced" you and now someone (like your employer) is "consuming" you "product"? |
| 17:17:04 | bluebrother | this definition is plain stupid |
| 17:17:26 | nelek | i'm a product of my parents love, true |
| 17:17:28 | nelek | you too |
| 17:17:31 | nelek | hopefully |
| 17:17:42 | bluebrother | so you get consumed? |
| 17:18:01 | | Join sin613 [0] (n=pbarton@host-8-122-107-208.midco.net) |
| 17:18:04 | nelek | ... |
| 17:18:12 | nelek | this is entirely besides the discussion |
| 17:18:26 | bluebrother | well, it's your definition ... |
| 17:19:08 | nelek | but its ok, you made it clear that hfs+ is not going to happen |
| 17:19:23 | nelek | you could have told me the first time, then i wouldn't have bothered to come back |
| 17:19:26 | * | domonoky defines that rockbox is a hobby,not a product. we just do what we want :-) |
| 17:20:17 | nelek | have fun with your product |
| 17:20:22 | | Part nelek ("Infinite Loop") |
| 17:20:50 | bluebrother | infinite loop? In being a product? |
| 17:21:02 | linuxstb | So, anyone want to test this hfs+ patch I've been working on? |
| 17:23:24 | mrkiko | fat is simply tupid and inconsistent filesystem, aniway - true: coding a filesystem is very hard |
| 17:27:26 | LinuxMafia | BlakeJohnson86, i get error : it cannot load the .rom file |
| 17:28:27 | LinuxMafia | bluebrother, * |
| 17:29:20 | | Quit obo ("bye") |
| 17:29:32 | LinuxMafia | oh |
| 17:29:47 | LinuxMafia | now it sais wwritinng boot rom |
| 17:30:49 | LinuxMafia | this helped "don't know if it will, but I think it might. If it won't, renaming it to sdbootrom.bin might help." |
| 17:31:05 | | Quit MethoS-- (Remote closed the connection) |
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| 17:41:11 | LinuxMafia | how long it takes? |
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| 17:57:45 | mrkiko | I re-read the nelek discussion... |
| 17:58:09 | mrkiko | crazy... :D |
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| 18:00 |
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| 18:08:02 | Nico_P | wow crazy indeed. I think I would've told him to leave us alone and go bug apple about FAT32 performance |
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| 18:11:01 | ender` | people have a very hard time understanding that (at least with free software) something won't happen just because they wish for it |
| 18:12:19 | ender` | (or worse, demand it) |
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| 18:48:55 | LambdaCalculus37 | On the H100 and H300 pads, what is the BUTTON_ definition for the A-B button? |
| 18:50:16 | domonoky | see firmware\target\coldfire\iriver\button-target.h |
| 18:50:29 | domonoky | it seems to be BUTTON_MODE |
| 18:52:01 | LambdaCalculus37 | domonoky: Thanks. :) |
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| 19:00 |
| 19:00:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | domonoky: Thanks for pointing me to button-target.h; I'll take it from there. |
| 19:03:53 | * | LambdaCalculus37 is a little puzzled as to a logical button layout for Rock the Wumpus on the H10 |
| 19:04:03 | | Quit Darksair ("People who are zhuangbility want to show their niubility but only reflect their shability.") |
| 19:04:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | Any H10 owners have a good suggestion for a button layout? |
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| 19:27:44 | * | LambdaCalculus37 works on his Wumpus plugin |
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| 19:59:32 | kugel | domonoky: did you read the logs? |
| 19:59:52 | domonoky | no.. maybe i should :-) |
| 20:00 |
| 20:01:10 | kugel | domonoky: yep, i left you a message |
| 20:02:44 | domonoky | kugel: two remarks: did you remove the CCU_IO in both the bootloader an main binary ? (pastebin.ca doesnt work for me). And indeed i have more changes.. (funmans attempts to make sd-driver more stable, but i dont know if that matters)... |
| 20:03:06 | | Quit verbal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:03:16 | kugel | domonoky: yep I did it for both |
| 20:03:36 | kugel | well, I guess that highly matters |
| 20:03:57 | domonoky | i could perhaps give you patch of my changes... |
| 20:04:30 | kugel | or, commit it. are the changes strongly believed to be wrong or why do you keep it local? |
| 20:05:22 | domonoky | one part are funmans changes.. which i dont really know... and the CCU_IO i am not sure about other targets.. |
| 20:07:27 | domonoky | kugel: http://pastebin.com/m52656671 |
| 20:07:47 | kugel | domonoky: well then, thanks |
| 20:08:01 | domonoky | i often get checksum invalid with this, but when it works i can browse files... and bootup is much faster... |
| 20:08:49 | kugel | could someone commit the of offset for the fuze at least? |
| 20:09:29 | kugel | it's the same as for e200v2, so the line would be #if defined(SANSA_E200V2) || defined(SANSA_FUZE) |
| 20:09:53 | LambdaCalculus37 | Very, very early work on my Wumpus plugin (and proof that I've still got a lot to learn ;) ): http://pastebin.com/m529c6cdd |
| 20:10:10 | LambdaCalculus37 | I only have keymaps laid out right now. |
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| 20:11:24 | kugel | what's wumpus if I may ask? |
| 20:11:51 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Old computer game from the "stone age" days. |
| 20:12:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt_the_Wumpus |
| 20:14:54 | kugel | domonoky: can you commit that? http://pastebin.com/m3ae45404 |
| 20:15:13 | kugel | domonoky: that also makes sure the offset is only added for the internal memory |
| 20:18:52 | domonoky | kugel: why put the if outside of the ifdef ? |
| 20:20:06 | kugel | domonoky: why not? there may be future targets with another offset and microsd slot |
| 20:20:30 | kugel | drive is declared no matter of HAVE_MULTIVOLUME |
| 20:20:51 | domonoky | ah, oki... will commit it. |
| 20:21:20 | kugel | domonoky: it's "const int drive = 0" if HAVE_MULTIVOLUME isn't defined |
| 20:25:06 | domonoky | commited |
| 20:25:51 | kugel | domonoky: thanks |
| 20:26:02 | kugel | domonoky: still no main menu |
| 20:26:51 | domonoky | make at least 10 tries to be sure :-) |
| 20:27:11 | kugel | also, I think we should make sd_init NOT error out if there's no microsd inserted ;; |
| 20:27:44 | domonoky | and wait a long time after bootup.. my m200v4 took a long time to boot before my fix :-) |
| 20:27:48 | kugel | that's the infamous ata error -2 |
| 20:28:14 | domonoky | :-) |
| 20:28:57 | domonoky | you could make a patch that solves this.. :-) |
| 20:29:14 | kugel | not sure what the correct fix would be |
| 20:29:34 | kugel | I'd just remove the "return ret" after the init of the external card |
| 20:29:48 | kugel | so it would still be initialized, but not error out if it fails |
| 20:30:21 | | Quit Schmogel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 20:32:01 | domonoky | hm, the proper fix would probably be to implement "card_detect_traget()" and/or "card_enable_monitoring_target()" ... |
| 20:32:44 | kugel | domonoky: that'd be my quick fix http://pastebin.com/m525569a6 |
| 20:32:47 | domonoky | so it detects if there is a external card. then it should try to init the non-existing card.. |
| 20:32:55 | domonoky | +not |
| 20:33:50 | | Quit ap0 ("Baļ") |
| 20:33:55 | domonoky | ah, yes, that wll of course need fixing.. :-) |
| 20:34:25 | kugel | domonoky: well, sd_init_card returns very early if there's no card found. Using this function directly would probably create less "overhead" then adding a monitoring function |
| 20:34:30 | | Quit sin6131 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:35:52 | domonoky | removing the return, is a good quick fix. But will need proper handling later (with respect to hot-swap)... |
| 20:36:25 | kugel | yep, sure |
| 20:37:39 | kugel | domonoky: I get data aborts and a garbaged screen when trying to boot rockbox |
| 20:38:34 | kugel | and I still don't know why my screen is shifted left by some pixels |
| 20:38:38 | kugel | that's probably related |
| 20:38:46 | domonoky | and thats with which changes ? |
| 20:39:20 | kugel | domonoky: the patch you gave me, the one patch you committed and the quick fix about external sd init |
| 20:39:48 | kugel | it happens with and without microsd, so it's unlikely related to the latter one |
| 20:39:52 | domonoky | try it with the CCU_IO enabled (and change both bootloader and rockbox)... |
| 20:40:20 | domonoky | and make a few tries, the driver is still very unstable... |
| 20:40:21 | kugel | data abort at 0x3005c520 |
| 20:40:29 | kugel | I did aout 10 tries |
| 20:40:56 | kugel | domonoky: lol success |
| 20:41:14 | domonoky | the 11th try was successfull ? |
| 20:41:17 | kugel | on the 11th try |
| 20:41:21 | domonoky | :-) |
| 20:41:44 | kugel | but it crashed immediately after seeing the main menu |
| 20:42:10 | domonoky | what crash ? |
| 20:42:36 | domonoky | but crashes are to be expected with a unstable mass-storage driver.. |
| 20:42:58 | kugel | yea, I don't complain :) |
| 20:42:59 | domonoky | some crashes are also related to not havig write acess, i think.... |
| 20:43:41 | kugel | domonoky: btw: it said "no .rockbox directory, installation incomplete" |
| 20:44:33 | domonoky | also related to the driver.. i think :-) |
| 20:44:50 | kugel | most likely |
| 20:46:15 | domonoky | can you load rockbox from the sd-card ? |
| 20:46:31 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 20:46:42 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 20:46:42 | domonoky | would be interessting to know if the external sd still works without the CCU_IO... |
| 20:47:29 | bluebrother | grrr. Package soul helps with the small caps problem in the manual, but it conflicts with hyperref :( |
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| 20:48:27 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 20:49:13 | kugel | domonoky: yes, it's possible |
| 20:49:36 | | Join AndyIL [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) |
| 20:49:55 | kugel | which reminds of another think that should be fixed in svn |
| 20:50:02 | kugel | thing rather |
| 20:52:54 | domonoky | kugel: provide patches,and i will take a look :-) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:08 | kugel | domonoky: ok let me test it fist |
| 21:00:12 | kugel | first* |
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| 21:05:08 | bluebrother | pixelma2: around? |
| 21:07:52 | kugel | domonoky: card_detect_target() isn't implemented, is it? |
| 21:08:16 | domonoky | kugel: take a look at the code... |
| 21:08:54 | kugel | domonoky: I see a stub, but I get undefined reference compiling error |
| 21:09:10 | | Part dany_21a_ |
| 21:10:58 | | Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:12:05 | kugel | adding a prototype doesn't help? |
| 21:13:31 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 21:14:10 | kugel | ah got it |
| 21:14:18 | domonoky | take care about the #ifdefs... |
| 21:17:12 | kugel | yea |
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| 21:37:21 | kugel | domonoky: no, I can't boot from microsd anymore |
| 21:37:36 | kugel | it did work though without all these changes |
| 21:37:57 | domonoky | oki, so we need the CCU_IO thing on v2 with sd-cards. |
| 21:38:05 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Connection timed out) |
| 21:38:15 | kugel | domonoky: it didn't work with CCU_IO either |
| 21:38:46 | domonoky | does it work with svn ? |
| 21:38:54 | kugel | domonoky: btw, that's the issue I talked about: http://pastebin.com/m1ad28c7c |
| 21:39:26 | kugel | bootloader doesn't use BOOTDIR at all (which is defined in the target config). it's even more hardcoded to /.rockbox |
| 21:39:43 | kugel | I think linuxstb and Bagder agreed with me here |
| 21:40:51 | bluebrother | thy not BOOTDIR "%s", firmware? |
| 21:40:56 | bluebrother | *why |
| 21:41:10 | bluebrother | instead of "%s/%s" |
| 21:41:13 | kugel | bluebrother: does that make any difference? |
| 21:41:44 | bluebrother | well, it's only one replacement −− BOOTDIR is a const string anyway |
| 21:41:59 | bluebrother | or is it a pointer to some const data? |
| 21:41:59 | kugel | so no. but I don't really care |
| 21:42:06 | kugel | it's a #define |
| 21:43:01 | bluebrother | well, it does make a difference: in the first case you have a string "%s/%s" plus the value of BOOTDIR. In the second you have the string BOOTDIR"/%s". Which is 2 characters less, plus you have only one replacement. |
| 21:43:09 | bluebrother | so while the difference is small there is one. |
| 21:44:04 | kugel | it's not a difference which actually matters though |
| 21:44:17 | kugel | but as I said, I don't about which of the two |
| 21:44:39 | bluebrother | depending on your constraints it can matter ... |
| 21:44:49 | bluebrother | it might not matter in this case. |
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| 21:49:53 | kugel | domonoky: would you commit that quick fix about the external sd init? |
| 21:52:15 | bluebrother | grrr. Why isn't the settings searching in the pdf working anymore? |
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| 22:13:25 | domonoky | kugel: could you update the DeviceDetection page with the USB-ID of the fuze ? |
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| 22:27:25 | kugel | domonoky: done |
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| 22:30:10 | rhinobanga | evening folks ... any developers about? I'd like to discuss a change I've made to the rockbox code. |
| 22:30:56 | kugel | rhinobanga: just begin to talk, eventually someone will reply |
| 22:31:30 | | Join tessarakt [0] (n=jens@e180070194.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:31:44 | rhinobanga | I have changed the code to dynamically create album art |
| 22:32:09 | bluebrother | dynamically _create_? |
| 22:32:23 | rhinobanga | if the cover*.bmp file is not there and folder.jpg exists it will create cover*bmp automatically |
| 22:32:39 | bluebrother | how that? Using a default bitmap? |
| 22:32:50 | kugel | rhinobanga: as in renaming or actually converting to bmp? |
| 22:32:53 | bluebrother | ah, by converting that? |
| 22:33:08 | rhinobanga | yes, read the jpg and create the bitmap |
| 22:33:20 | bluebrother | does it scale or only convert? |
| 22:33:28 | rhinobanga | scales |
| 22:33:30 | bluebrother | and is this done as plugin or in the core? |
| 22:33:34 | rhinobanga | core |
| 22:33:56 | bluebrother | you know there is this resizing patch that's being worked on? It's in the tracker |
| 22:34:00 | * | kugel suggest rhinobanga to put it on the tracker so everyone can have a look at |
| 22:34:25 | rhinobanga | I remember you folks were talking about refactoring the whole metadata subsystem |
| 22:34:41 | bluebrother | also, if you are decoding jpg in the core, why write a bmp file? |
| 22:34:45 | rhinobanga | so I wanted to know if anyone would be interested in this |
| 22:34:53 | bluebrother | why not put it into the metadata buffer directly? |
| 22:35:38 | rhinobanga | because it was the easiest/quickest way to get it up and running |
| 22:35:58 | rhinobanga | by creating the cover_X_Y.bmp file dynamically I didn't really have to do much |
| 22:36:34 | rhinobanga | I know there are loads of memory issues however I am only interested in getting my iPod working |
| 22:36:45 | bluebrother | that's of course a way but I don't think such an attempt will make it into the core at all |
| 22:36:55 | bluebrother | you ipod isn't working without album art? |
| 22:37:16 | kugel | rhinobanga: the best way to share the code and get opinions is to put it on the tracker or mail at the mailing list, irc is not really proper for that (in general) |
| 22:37:30 | rhinobanga | I only have folder.jpg and I don't want to pollute my main music repository with all these *.bmp's |
| 22:38:00 | kugel | with bmp resize you only need 1 bitmap |
| 22:38:14 | bluebrother | kugel: well, I fear this will be a rather big blob nobody is willing to completely look at. It does multiple things at once ... |
| 22:38:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | None of which sound very cleanly implemented. |
| 22:39:02 | rhinobanga | given that every wps can request different sizes I thought it would be easier/quicker doing it this way without having to change to much |
| 22:39:17 | bluebrother | rhinobanga: if you're interested to get the feature in svn I'd rather suggest trying to help out with the resize patch, or have a look at refactoring the jpg decoding so it can get integrated into the core |
| 22:39:21 | rhinobanga | and the creation of the .bmp is only done when it needs to be |
| 22:39:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | rhinobanga: That implementation sounds like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. |
| 22:39:45 | * | kugel agrees with bluebrother |
| 22:40:26 | bluebrother | creating an intermediate bmp sounds like the wrong solution to me, at least from a Rockbox point of view (of course it's perfectly legal if you "just" want to get it "done" for yourself) |
| 22:40:29 | rhinobanga | maybe ... but it works and it means no preprocessing of existing artwork has to be done |
| 22:40:53 | bluebrother | well, but this kinda rules it out for getting accepted. |
| 22:40:53 | rhinobanga | there is nothing worse than getting a wps with a different artwork resolution |
| 22:41:12 | rhinobanga | then having to go throu and regenerate it |
| 22:41:20 | bluebrother | there's a really simple solution for that: don't change themes ;-) |
| 22:41:34 | bluebrother | you could do that with a plugin. |
| 22:41:35 | rhinobanga | especially when you have a filesystem containg over 1000+ albums |
| 22:41:54 | rhinobanga | lol ... true ... but I like to experiment ... I am a programmer after all :D |
| 22:42:17 | rhinobanga | how far off is the "official" solution to this? |
| 22:42:22 | LambdaCalculus37 | I still think it would be much easier to just add JPEG decoding to the core, along with album art resize. |
| 22:42:24 | bluebrother | heavily |
| 22:42:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | But there are patches in the tracker with some work done. |
| 22:42:51 | kugel | rhinobanga: you're completely ignoring the bmp resize patch |
| 22:43:00 | bluebrother | well, IIRC there is general consensus that we want scaling in the core and jpg decoding |
| 22:43:16 | bluebrother | kugel: how do you know he isn't incorporating it? ;-) |
| 22:43:30 | rhinobanga | why have a bmp and folder.jpg in the same directory? |
| 22:43:45 | kugel | well, you can delete the folder.jpg of course |
| 22:43:46 | bluebrother | why not? It doesn't hurt |
| 22:43:52 | rhinobanga | personally I like clean folders in my main repositories |
| 22:44:02 | rhinobanga | single file ... single solution |
| 22:44:16 | LambdaCalculus37 | Then here's a solution: keep the JPEG files for your album art in another folder, away from your music. |
| 22:44:42 | rhinobanga | except all the windows stuff I do won't find it |
| 22:44:50 | kugel | rhinobanga: you can also put the album art into /.rockbox/albumart so you don't have any bmp/jpg in your music folder |
| 22:45:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | Although that will require you to rename everything to match album titles. |
| 22:45:13 | rhinobanga | missing the regeneration point |
| 22:45:29 | bluebrother | you could pregenerate for all possible sizes ;-) |
| 22:45:34 | rhinobanga | lolol |
| 22:45:42 | bluebrother | but I agree, this is somewhat missing the initial point |
| 22:46:12 | bluebrother | still, there are different problems that should get addressed separately instead of simply pushing stuff into the core |
| 22:46:23 | kugel | rhinobanga: I see better chances if you help out with bmp resize or get jpeg viewer into the core |
| 22:46:34 | kugel | (and get the wps show jpgs) |
| 22:46:34 | * | bluebrother wonders what's the binsize delta of that patch |
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| 22:47:02 | bluebrother | I see _no_ chance of such an attempt getting into svn at all. |
| 22:47:09 | rhinobanga | as I said the solution is great for me, all I have to do is upload my album folder containg my .M3U, .JPG and .MP3s and let rockbox handle any generation it needs |
| 22:47:19 | rhinobanga | I wasn't intending it to |
| 22:47:33 | bluebrother | well, that's a valid point. |
| 22:47:42 | kugel | rhinobanga: expect decreased battery life |
| 22:48:03 | rhinobanga | why? it only generates the bmp onoce as needed |
| 22:48:03 | kugel | rhinobanga: again, put it on the tracker and you'll get some more opinions |
| 22:48:20 | bluebrother | rhinobanga: (a) disc spinup, (b) decreased audio buffer size |
| 22:48:20 | rhinobanga | then when the artwork is requested again the .bmp file is there |
| 22:48:42 | rhinobanga | both of which are a once off hit |
| 22:49:10 | kugel | still, the ram used for audio buffer is decreased |
| 22:49:25 | LambdaCalculus37 | This is especially bad for lower mem targets. |
| 22:49:32 | kugel | whether your algorithm is doing something or not |
| 22:49:32 | rhinobanga | only for generating the .bmp |
| 22:49:33 | bluebrother | well, you're free to do it this way if you like. But it's not the way it will get done once Rockbox has this functionality |
| 22:49:43 | bluebrother | so I seem to miss the point why you want to discuss this ... |
| 22:50:00 | bluebrother | you need decoding buffers for the jpg handling |
| 22:50:24 | rhinobanga | again a once off hit, then from then on the .BMP file is sitting there |
| 22:50:44 | kugel | rhinobanga: rockbox doesn't use dynamic memory management. The RAM you need for your stuff is "wasted", no matter if you already have bmps |
| 22:50:45 | bluebrother | no, as the album art is read to the audio buffer |
| 22:51:13 | * | domonoky mentions that his m200v4 shows 214k free for the audio buffer :-) |
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| 22:51:29 | bluebrother | which you can't use for decoding the jpg while music is playing ... |
| 22:51:53 | rhinobanga | my iPod has 64MB of memory |
| 22:53:29 | rhinobanga | as I said, I just wanted to know how far off any official solution was to this problem before I posted anything on the forum |
| 22:53:48 | bluebrother | well, from my view you're completely off |
| 22:53:53 | rhinobanga | it sounds like it's going to be a while yet |
| 22:54:14 | LambdaCalculus37 | It's when Mr Someone decides to do it. |
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| 22:55:08 | bluebrother | feel free to jump in helping out with the resize patch or integrating jpeg properly into the core |
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| 22:56:42 | rhinobanga | I'll maybe have a look, I was just sitting at my desk yesterday and got fed up with RB not automatically utilising my folder.jpg so I thought I'd do something about it. |
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| 23:00:05 | Zagor | rhinobanga: for what its' worth: I applaud your initiative, even if it is not the way we want it done in Rockbox. any way you slice it, your solution sure beats whining about it! |
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| 23:02:53 | | Quit webguest91 (Client Quit) |
| 23:03:18 | rhinobanga | sure does ... defo one of the perks of open source :D |
| 23:04:12 | rhinobanga | I'll post a msg on the iPod forum sometime this week and see if anyone else is interested in this |
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| 23:07:00 | saratoga | speaking of resizing, what is needed for the bmp resize patch to go in? |
| 23:08:16 | saratoga | it looks like most of the comments have been addressed, and the patch has been refactored into smaller units for each function |
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| 23:10:23 | Zagor | Unhelpful: here? which target did you build, which failed? |
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| 23:11:29 | Unhelpful | Zagor: gigabeat s. it worked fine until i tried your patch on top of a clean source repo, and then it missed those generated files |
| 23:11:52 | Unhelpful | might it be a good idea to put everything generated in build dir? |
| 23:12:06 | Zagor | it is |
| 23:12:28 | Zagor | or do you mean the builddir root? |
| 23:12:57 | Unhelpful | i mean in the builddir, and not in the source dir. currently, a number of things under tools are built in tools. |
| 23:13:25 | Zagor | ah yes, tools are special. that |
| 23:13:34 | Zagor | that's because they don't change for different targets |
| 23:15:03 | Unhelpful | i can see why they're there... and git clean can make them go away ;) |
| 23:15:37 | Unhelpful | which is where i got into trouble, i initially didn't realize that iaudio_bl_flash.{c,h} were generated, and thought that my repo was corrupted in some way :/ |
| 23:16:12 | linuxstb | saratoga: Like any patch, it needs a committer to take responsiblity for it, and start committing the patches one by one... |
| 23:18:19 | * | LambdaCalculus37 goes to look at the patch |
| 23:18:23 | saratoga | linuxstb: but all of your initial concerns have been addressed? |
| 23:18:30 | * | domonoky wonders how rockbox uses i2s, i only see i2_reset() functions... |
| 23:18:47 | bertrik | what is this "rockbox" you speak of? |
| 23:18:55 | bertrik | oops |
| 23:19:34 | Zagor | Unhelpful: yes, it is not a build system for novices :-) but a simple rule is that all files in your builddir are generated. so when it compiles a file that is in your builddir, that file was generated from something else. such as all bitmaps. |
| 23:19:59 | | Quit rhinobanga ("CGI:IRC") |
| 23:22:27 | Unhelpful | the "old" makefile generates iaudo_bl_flash.* in tools. the unified one does not work as-is for me unless those are already present. probably i should change the patch i posted to put those files in builddir instead of just copying what the non-unified build does? |
| 23:23:18 | Zagor | oh sorry I misread. yes that is a bug I have to fix. |
| 23:23:44 | Unhelpful | at least the generated sysfont.h was already going in the right place ;) |
| 23:23:47 | | Quit bertrik ("Leaving") |
| 23:23:49 | kugel | linuxstb: and you don't want to be that committer? |
| 23:24:43 | linuxstb | saratoga: I don't know. I've had a look at the 01 patch, and am not sure about the change from a 32-bit to 24-bit type for a pixel. I haven't looked at anything else. |
| 23:24:45 | linuxstb | kugel: No |
| 23:25:46 | Zagor | Unhelpful: you don't have to post a new patch if you don't want to. I'll look at it. |
| 23:25:48 | Unhelpful | maybe it would make sense to have a commonbuild dir for putting objects built from tools? it's the only way i can think of to share them between builds without polluting the src, but i think it would end up being just as ugly |
| 23:26:15 | saratoga | linuxstb: ok then, I've slowly been reading through how this patch works |
| 23:26:50 | saratoga | about the ram use comment you made, are you just readnig the "RAM usage:" line out of rockboxinfo.txt? |
| 23:27:04 | saratoga | i assume theres more because the increase there is quite small |
| 23:29:27 | Unhelpful | Zagor: should iaudio_bl_flash.* stay in tools, actually? it would seem putting them there is justified by the same argument that we put .o files and binaries there |
| 23:29:40 | Unhelpful | in which case i don't need to do anything to the patch i posted |
| 23:31:24 | Zagor | yes, it makes little sense putting generated files in different places just because they have different names. I say we either fix a "pretty" way of doing it (keeping tools entirely clean) or we put all generated files side-by-side with the .o files. |
| 23:31:43 | Zagor | for now, I'll settle with the latter |
| 23:32:41 | kugel | linuxstb: btw: the original bmp resize added less binsize (don't know about ram though) |
| 23:32:44 | * | LambdaCalculus37 wonders whether to draw the Wumpus graphics using external bitmaps, or to draw using C code |
| 23:34:26 | LambdaCalculus37 | Meh... I'm kinda hungry now and can't really think anymore about coding. |
| 23:34:31 | Zagor | LambdaCalculus37: what does it look like? any screenshots of other versions? |
| 23:34:37 | Unhelpful | then the only thing i might change in what i posted would be to make the sysfont.h dep a little cleaner... how do the generated dependencies work? could it possibly be included in those? |
| 23:34:53 | LambdaCalculus37 | Zagor: Here's what I'm aiming for: http://tatsusoft.diregames.net:8081/wumpus.gif |
| 23:35:25 | Zagor | Unhelpful: yes, it can. it is supposed to be handled already, I'll look into why it isn't. |
| 23:35:31 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: showing bitmaps is boring |
| 23:35:42 | kugel | :p |
| 23:36:04 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Rockblox appears to be generating its graphics using C code. |
| 23:36:31 | LambdaCalculus37 | Might make it easier for generating the map and the Wumpus mouth closing on you when you die. |
| 23:36:37 | Zagor | I can imagine some people wanting to prettify it on the more bling-bling targets. but hey, it's your plugin! |
| 23:37:17 | Llorean | I'd say generally speaking bitmaps are the way to go. |
| 23:37:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | Zagor: I'll study invadarox and rockblox more closely, then... those two plugins appear to generate all of their graphics internally. |
| 23:37:52 | * | Unhelpful could swear that when he played hunt the wumpus "back in the day" that much of the point was that you didn't know which way things connected. |
| 23:38:16 | LambdaCalculus37 | Llorean: Bitmaps may be easy for stuff like the bloodstains, the Wumpus (on the map), and the player, but generating a random map using bitmaps may be harder. |
| 23:38:24 | amiconn | Using bitmaps should be faster than doing lots of partial drawing |
| 23:38:25 | Llorean | LambdaCalculus37: I'd say it won't be. |
| 23:38:51 | Llorean | You only have four "arcs" for connecting rooms. |
| 23:38:53 | Zagor | LambdaCalculus37: random maps are just a random collection of bitmaps, with some rules to the randomness |
| 23:38:53 | linuxstb | saratoga: Yes, my comments were based on looking at the RAM usage in rockbox-info.txt. |
| 23:39:04 | LambdaCalculus37 | Hmmm... |
| 23:39:11 | amiconn | Rockblox graphics are simple and btw rockblox only draws the blocks. The background is a bitmap |
| 23:40:08 | Llorean | I think using bitmaps leaves you more room to differentiate graphics quality based on what the target can do, without sacrificing code readability. |
| 23:40:30 | amiconn | That too |
| 23:40:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | Llorean, amiconn, Zagor: Looking on it now, I'm thinking that bitmaps for the curves in four directions, and each "room" will work more. |
| 23:40:37 | saratoga | linuxstb: i must be doing somethign wrong since the patch is only giving me a ~9KB delta |
| 23:40:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | Very good advice. :) |
| 23:40:58 | | Quit amiconn (" /me would prefer updates not requiring reboots....") |
| 23:41:31 | LambdaCalculus37 | In the meantime, I'm heading off. See everyone later! |
| 23:41:43 | kugel | later |
| 23:41:48 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Ka-chunka") |
| 23:42:43 | linuxstb | saratoga: Is that with all 4 patches applied? |
| 23:42:54 | saratoga | linuxstb: yes, on the sansa if that matters |
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| 23:43:41 | linuxstb | Then maybe it's been improved since the first version - e.g. I think he changed the large bitmap buffers to 24-bit, rather than 32-bit. |
| 23:44:15 | saratoga | that seems to good to be true, but maybe |
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| 23:44:49 | soap | Could the buffers be shrunk even more on 16bit colour targets? |
| 23:46:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:48:06 | saratoga | ah ok redid it and got 20KB which seems more reasonable |
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| 23:50:36 | saratoga | if we ever get JPEG support, we could shrink the memory costs quite a lot by making resize jpeg only, and using the JPEG DCT trick for most of the resize |
| 23:51:01 | kugel | is it still max 500x500 or uses it another algorithm for higher bitmaps? I'd agree with linuxstb that it should be at least 512x512 since people tend to have bitmaps with 501x503 and the like |
| 23:51:47 | saratoga | the whole area sampling thing is not needed for jpeg |
| 23:52:21 | amiconn | Why is there a limit at all? |
| 23:52:50 | amiconn | I'd like to see an algorithm that never loads more than 1..2 pixel lines at once, and scales on the fly |
| 23:52:52 | soap | what will the negative delta be of removing the current album art code which looks for cover.100x100.bmp and such? Very small I'd imagine. |
| 23:53:11 | saratoga | amiconn: with jpeg + bilinear thats possible with good results |
| 23:53:43 | saratoga | with pure bmp you can't use the DCT in the jpeg decoder to do antialaising for you, so you need to load more lines to get a good image |
| 23:53:45 | amiconn | Besides, 500x500 would not even cover the whole m:robe 500's screen... |
| 23:54:10 | saratoga | from the comments it sounds like the current patch does not have a size limit |
| 23:54:43 | Unhelpful | requiring conversion to jpeg would probably be reasonable (for things that are bmp/png/whatnot already) |
| 23:54:46 | saratoga | though i do'nt understand the resize well at all |
| 23:55:28 | saratoga | in terms of binsize, either requiring small bmp or jpeg of arbitrary size would be ideal i think |
| 23:55:48 | saratoga | i could be wrong but it seems like its that resize by a factor > 2 thats painful |
| 23:55:58 | kugel | saratoga, amiconn: if I got it right, then only the area sampling is limited and it will use "Nearest Neighbour or bilinear algorithm" |
| 23:56:13 | kugel | on higher bitmaps |
| 23:56:21 | saratoga | if its a factor of less then 2, I think area sampling is bilinear |
| 23:56:38 | saratoga | since then you only need 2 cache lines and much less RAM |
| 23:56:58 | Unhelpful | saratoga: a big enough jpeg might still force you to use larger sampling factors, if the size is more than... i'd think two macroblocks to target pixel? |
| 23:57:14 | saratoga | i think area sampling is just basically a lowpass filter, with the number of cachelines being the order of the filter |
| 23:58:48 | amiconn | Imho bilinear interpolation is sufficient |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).