| 00:00:09 | Martyn | When I try using the RockBox Utility to install rockbox on my sansa e250R, I get a 404 error |
| 00:00:20 | Martyn | Is there a problem with where files are stored for firmware? |
| 00:00:45 | | Join moos [0] (i=moos@rockbox/staff/moos) |
| 00:02:46 | | Quit XavierGr () |
| 00:03:51 | | Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 00:10:24 | kugel | RockRabbit: Note that you need to re-login / start a new shell, else your PATH changes aren't active |
| 00:10:53 | kugel | RockRabbit: do "echo $PATH" to see if the compiler directory is in |
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| 00:19:23 | lucent | heh, saratoga forgot that the maximum file size on FAT is 4.3GB |
| 00:20:11 | Martyn | *cough* on FAT32 |
| 00:20:22 | lucent | right you are! |
| 00:21:01 | Martyn | And it's one byte -smaller- than 4G |
| 00:21:31 | Martyn | So 3 gigs, 999 megs, 999kb, 999bytes |
| 00:21:51 | | Quit bxcracer (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:22:23 | Martyn | 2^32-1 |
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| 00:23:51 | krazykit | Martyn, i believe rockbox utility will not install the bootloader on the e200r, since you need to do some manual patching. the manual should have instructions on how to manually install |
| 00:24:27 | BigBambi | I think it just has a link to the wiki page |
| 00:24:27 | BigBambi | Either way, it is findable |
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| 00:34:56 | Aurix_Lexico | I don't know if this is entirely on topic, but I want to share it, it's a screen capture of a turret defense plugin I've been playing around with |
| 00:35:10 | Aurix_Lexico | the boxes represent the path the enemies follow |
| 00:35:13 | Aurix_Lexico | http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v494/blackpanzer/?action=view¤t=bad_path_finding.flv |
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| 00:36:14 | Aurix_Lexico | the path finding clearly needs some improvement |
| 00:39:54 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 00:45:11 | lucent | Aurix_Lexico: I'm looking :) |
| 00:48:24 | | Join ThOr101 [0] (n=bthorson@pool-96-255-184-150.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:48:53 | ThOr101 | Holy nutz, what an awesome piece of software. I've been using it less than 24 hours, and it just FLIES! |
| 00:49:18 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 00:50:23 | ThOr101 | I do have one question though (of course). I couldn't find it in the iPod or Battery FAQ. In the documentation (ipod 5.5 80G) General Set -> Battery Set -> Charge During USB Connection. I don't see that on my build. Any clues? |
| 00:50:26 | lucent | ThOr101: thanks for that, I think #rockbox-community might share your excitement |
| 00:50:39 | lucent | this is kind of the developer channel ;) |
| 00:51:06 | ThOr101 | Ahh, well, thanks then, and other than my Q, I'll keep the noise down. :-) |
| 00:51:14 | ThOr101 | Or should I ask my Q there? |
| 00:51:16 | lucent | I don't own an iPod so I can't really comment on your other question |
| 00:51:48 | krazykit | lucent, no, this is a development AND support channel |
| 00:52:17 | krazykit | ThOr101, are you using an official build? |
| 00:52:26 | ThOr101 | Yessir. I used the auto installer |
| 00:52:45 | ThOr101 | Which other than the well documented themes burped, worked flawlessly. |
| 00:53:24 | krazykit | ThOr101, well, just wait around awhile and perhaps somebody with an ipod (or who knows the answer) will see your question |
| 00:53:30 | ThOr101 | r19464-081217 |
| 00:53:42 | ThOr101 | sounds good. Thanks :-) |
| 00:55:14 | ThOr101 | I may have answered my own Q. When I went to RB info page to get the version, it has Battery: Charging (It is currently plugged in - held down menu to maintain RB state). So it does appear to be charging |
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| 01:30:00 | RockRabbit | I'm getting errors using rockboxdev.sh to build the development tools. Here is the output http://pastebin.com/m10291eed. Anyone any idea what this might be? Lucent - this is not the error we got before - this is using my previous install of rockbox. |
| 01:30:59 | | Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]") |
| 01:35:40 | lucent | RockRabbit: it's a common error, quite google-able |
| 01:38:04 | | Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world") |
| 01:38:28 | lucent | RockRabbit: i.e. http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232079 |
| 01:39:15 | lucent | my host compiler is gcc 4.3.2 btw |
| 01:39:26 | lucent | RockRabbit: what's your host compiler version? gcc −−version |
| 01:40:39 | | Quit PaulJam (".") |
| 01:42:38 | RockRabbit | gcc (Ubuntu 4.3.2-1ubuntu11) 4.3.2 |
| 01:45:47 | RockRabbit | i see theres a patch - but i have no idea how to apply it. Will the fix be backported to ubuntu as part of a normal update? |
| 01:47:58 | kugel | RockRabbit: I'm running ubuntu 8.10 x64 just fine |
| 01:48:08 | kugel | rockboxdev.sh did well |
| 01:48:09 | | Quit Schmogel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:49:02 | RockRabbit | Odd. How is that possible, unless you applied the patch, or perhaps you have not applied all the updates to ubuntu? |
| 01:49:31 | kugel | I installed the toolchain 2 weeks ago or so. I had all updates at that time |
| 01:50:00 | kugel | maybe something in svn broke it. You might try an older revision |
| 01:50:24 | toffe82_ | I install it on ubuntu 8.10 and no problem too |
| 01:50:46 | | Quit n1s () |
| 01:51:03 | kugel | RockRabbit: did you make sure you have the build-essential package installed? if not, install it |
| 01:51:12 | RockRabbit | mmmm. im baffled. We both have the same OS, yours works and mine does'nt. I did get this all working a few weeks back on either Ubuntu or Fedora (can't remember which), so its even more puzzling. |
| 01:51:14 | toffe82_ | with the last update of ubuntu last week |
| 01:51:32 | | Quit lasser ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Iceweasel 3.0.4/2008112309]") |
| 01:51:57 | kugel | RockRabbit: as I said, it might be possible that rockboxdev.sh is broken in svn. I recommend obtaining an older version to see if it works |
| 01:52:19 | RockRabbit | yes i have build-essential. As far as I know I followed the exact same steps to install rockbox this time as i did a few weeks back, and then it worked without a hitch. |
| 01:52:20 | kugel | just type "svn up -r19000" e.g. in the rockbox source folder, then try again |
| 01:53:05 | RockRabbit | sorry kugel i missed that previous comment. ok, ill give that a try. |
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| 01:55:50 | | Part toffe82_ |
| 01:57:03 | RockRabbit | came back with "Skipped ." |
| 01:57:38 | lucent | RockRabbit: I'm inclined to say that either your hardware or your OS is hosed |
| 01:58:12 | RockRabbit | ive got my fingers crossed its the os |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:17 | pixelma | I see "Skipped." when I accidentally try to update while in a wrong directory |
| 02:01:58 | kugel | RockRabbit: skipped is wrong |
| 02:02:42 | kugel | you probably were in the wrong directory, as pixelma said |
| 02:04:45 | RockRabbit | is was in the rockbox-3.0 directory. Anyway, ive deleted the directory and am re copying from svn using "svn co .... -r19000" |
| 02:04:54 | | Quit maddler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:05:42 | kugel | RockRabbit: oh, you're having the 3.0 source? so not from svn? |
| 02:08:52 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:10:44 | RockRabbit | You have a point - im really not too sure how I got it. Ive been doing so much trial and error stuff over the past few weeks, and being new to Linux, Rockbox, svn, arm assembler, etc, the past few weeks have been a blur. |
| 02:11:16 | RockRabbit | ive had about 8 different os's on the pc in the last few weeks too. |
| 02:14:28 | RockRabbit | the memory just clicked into place. I got rockbox from a 7zip file - the release version, and i used svn to get the mkamsboot code. |
| 02:15:30 | RockRabbit | and the rockbox that i got up and running some weeks back was almost definately from svn |
| 02:17:31 | kugel | the 7z archive *should* work, but you're definitely save(r) if you get the source from svn |
| 02:17:47 | kugel | that's the recommended way anyway, it's much more comfortable too |
| 02:18:04 | kugel | RockRabbit: 8 different OSes sounds impressive :) |
| 02:18:12 | lucent | RockRabbit: don't worry too much, everyone messes up their first distro install or two, I mean *EVERYONE* |
| 02:18:38 | lucent | RockRabbit: but like, it's tough for someone to walk up to a hosed system and make it work again |
| 02:18:42 | kugel | lucent: hey, I failed for now with the buttonlight |
| 02:19:02 | lucent | kugel: how do you disassemble the OF code anyhow? |
| 02:19:04 | RockRabbit | my first distro! i think its no exaggeration to say I have installed Linux more than 300 times at least! |
| 02:19:07 | kugel | I'm not sure how the OF does it, but I can't get it to work parallel to microsd |
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| 02:19:32 | lucent | kugel: can you make it light up (not paying attention to keeping microsd working) ? |
| 02:20:02 | kugel | lucent: light you up in which way? How I disassembled? |
| 02:20:19 | lucent | kugel: I'm confusing two different questions |
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| 02:20:36 | lucent | kugel: one question is "what tools do I need to disassemble Sansa AMS OF?" |
| 02:20:58 | lucent | the other question is "are you able to trigger on/off the button light on Fuze at all?" |
| 02:21:06 | kugel | I used arm-elf-objdump (that should be installed with the toolchain) |
| 02:21:42 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:22:26 | kugel | lucent: yes I am able, but it's on GPIOD, and the microsd is basically taking the whole D port, so it isn't trivial to get microsd and buttonlight working simultaneously |
| 02:23:14 | lucent | kugel: microSD isn't working on my hardware anyways, I should probably try out the code and see if it works here also |
| 02:24:09 | kugel | lucent: get it working is really easy (swap the lines in backlight-e200v2-fuze.c), as DIR needs to be set before the PIN |
| 02:24:31 | kugel | but as soon as you use a microsd, you'll only have problems :) |
| 02:25:16 | kugel | what I disassembled today wasn't sufficient obvioisly, I guess the OF handles that stuff more in the SD driver |
| 02:25:56 | kugel | which I didn't/couldn't disassemble due to thumb/arm code switching, and objdump doesn't seem to be able to have both in one disassembly |
| 02:27:01 | * | lucent googles what is thumb code |
| 02:27:28 | kugel | lucent: thumb code is code of reduced size. It uses 16bit instructions instead of 32bit ones. |
| 02:28:14 | kugel | so it's very small, but relatively slow, as you need to do more instructions to achieve the same as with arm code at times |
| 02:28:36 | lucent | ah okay |
| 02:28:49 | lucent | I'm following this help okay, thanks |
| 02:29:14 | lucent | I only did a little assembly work for Z80 CPU on a graphing calculator |
| 02:29:29 | kugel | it's a start :) |
| 02:29:29 | lucent | that's all I have known |
| 02:29:40 | kugel | the disassembly I made today was the first I did on my own |
| 02:35:17 | kugel | hmmmmm |
| 02:36:33 | * | kugel thinks he got it to work, somewhat |
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| 03:00 |
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| 03:15:04 | kugel | lucent: FS #9663 |
| 03:15:18 | kugel | I go to bed |
| 03:15:20 | | Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008111319]") |
| 03:15:22 | RockRabbit | rockboxdev.sh worked fine with the r19000 rockbox source from svn |
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| 03:39:09 | lucent | :) |
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| 04:24:06 | lucent | hm, how did kugel get that disassembly in http://pastebin.ca/1288087 |
| 04:24:26 | lucent | arm-elf-objdump -D −−target binary -marm fuzea.bin-01.01.22-OF −−start-address=0x400 -Mforce-thumb |
| 04:24:29 | lucent | doesn't match up |
| 04:26:05 | Aurix_Lexico | ugh, I'm using printf a lot, but whenever it reaches the bottom, it just starts again at the top and looks really ugly |
| 04:26:09 | lucent | it starts to match up at offset 0x49b0 though |
| 04:26:11 | Aurix_Lexico | is there any way to fix that? |
| 04:26:29 | lucent | Aurix_Lexico: hm, logf maybe? |
| 04:26:29 | Aurix_Lexico | in my little hacked up bootloader |
| 04:26:37 | lucent | view from the debug menu logf viewer |
| 04:26:45 | lucent | oh |
| 04:27:01 | lucent | Aurix_Lexico: look at this guy's code http://pastebin.com/d69fa6ba4 |
| 04:27:11 | lucent | hope I don't waste your time, I think it may be helpful though |
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| 04:29:49 | Aurix_Lexico | ok, I guess something like that would work |
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| 04:35:58 | vertic23 | bah someone from U.S. here? |
| 04:37:22 | advcomp2019 | vertic23, why? |
| 04:37:58 | vertic23 | because I need an ipod video 80 GB 5.5 :> |
| 04:39:15 | vertic23 | ..and soon there is C25C3 maybe someone's coming around and get my ipod so I don't need to pay customs |
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| 05:15:05 | Rockrabbit | Am I able to get write permissions for the twiki? |
| 05:15:40 | Rockrabbit | I want to be able to update the Sansa c200 hardware mappings |
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| 05:19:37 | jhulst | Rockrabbit: I'd be happy to, but I'm assuming Rockrabbit isn't your real name. Did you read the instructions when you registered? |
| 05:19:56 | jhulst | Rockrabbit: Specifically the part about using your real name? |
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| 05:28:06 | Rockrabbit | I sed my real name when registering on the twiki just now. No I did not notice anything about having to use a real name on the IRC or the forums |
| 05:28:17 | Rockrabbit | sorry |
| 05:28:50 | Rockrabbit | My real name is phil taylor |
| 05:29:23 | | Quit Horschti ("I am root. If you see me laughing, you better have a backup") |
| 05:29:32 | jhulst | Rockrabbit: You don't need to use your real name on IRC or the forums, but it looks like you registered with RockRabbit as your wiki name, when it should be PhilTaylor |
| 05:30:01 | Rockrabbit | sorry i thought that was the usual nickname |
| 05:30:17 | Rockrabbit | i assumed it should match all my other nicks so youd know it was the same person |
| 05:30:35 | Rockrabbit | what should i do? |
| 05:31:23 | jhulst | Rockrabbit: From the registration page, "Your WikiName must be your real first and last name concatenated" |
| 05:31:35 | jhulst | Reregister with the correct name and I'll give you access |
| 05:31:38 | UnhelpfulWeb | reregister with PhilTaylor as our WikiName, i'd say |
| 05:31:46 | Rockrabbit | ok |
| 05:33:04 | UnhelpfulWeb | as far as making sure that people know you on IRC, you can make an entry here for that: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IrcNicks |
| 05:33:51 | lucent | vertic23: I'm in Jackson, WY USA |
| 05:34:06 | lucent | vertic23: I'd like to help if it makes a difference |
| 05:34:16 | vertic23 | are you coming to the C25C3 in berlin? :> |
| 05:35:18 | Rockrabbit | Done |
| 05:36:03 | lucent | vertic23: oh, no I don't think I am |
| 05:36:43 | vertic23 | well, but I just realized that the ipod 5.5 with 80GB is almost as expensive here in .de as in .us |
| 05:36:57 | vertic23 | hard to get them nowadays |
| 05:37:15 | vertic23 | and I just need a rockbox player ...mine is broken |
| 05:37:21 | lucent | ah, :/ |
| 05:38:10 | lucent | the only player I know in production which sort of runs Rockbox is like my Sandisk Sansa Clip, or Sandisk Sansa Fuze... but these are active development targets |
| 05:38:11 | jhulst | Rockrabbit: You should be all set now |
| 05:38:13 | scorche | there are much better rockbox targets than the 5.5th gen ipod |
| 05:38:16 | lucent | I wouldn't suggest them for everyday |
| 05:38:19 | Rockrabbit | thanks |
| 05:38:43 | scorche | lucent: and as such are not supported and shouldnt really be advertised as "working" lest people get the wring idea ;) |
| 05:38:54 | scorche | s/wring/wrong |
| 05:39:45 | Rockrabbit | if i accidentally post some wrong info to the hardware mappings page, and someone else uses it and bricks their player because of my error, will people stop liking me? |
| 05:40:24 | lucent | Rockrabbit: that's none of my business, except to revert the changes if I happen to know they are wrong |
| 05:40:48 | Rockrabbit | Does anyone know about addressing the GPIO ports? |
| 05:40:59 | vertic23 | scorche: tell me about it |
| 05:41:46 | vertic23 | I am in the "BuyersGuide" ...but I don't see any players which are still available |
| 05:41:56 | scorche | that is what ebay is for ;) |
| 05:41:58 | vertic23 | ...and would fit my need |
| 05:42:01 | Rockrabbit | if i use the code "ldr r1, [r0, #0x8] " to read a pin, does the hex value 8 refer to pin number 5? |
| 05:42:14 | vertic23 | well ...I looked - none of the ones I'd like are on ebay |
| 05:42:25 | vertic23 | I looked for the M3L (iaudio) e.g. |
| 05:43:21 | lucent | #0x8 is probably 1<<4 if I'm not mistaken |
| 05:43:39 | lucent | which would be pin 4. but I really haven't any clue how to deal with hardware designs |
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| 05:44:30 | n9xvt | anyone built or building thier own hardware yet? |
| 05:45:02 | lucent | n9xvt: not that I know of with Rockbox in mind |
| 05:45:18 | lucent | n9xvt: beagleboard.org would be a reasonable platform though |
| 05:46:15 | n9xvt | ok,,i found a complete platform,,for the diy ,,thought you guys might wanna look,, |
| 05:46:45 | n9xvt | http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/MP3_Player.htm |
| 05:47:06 | vertic23 | nice |
| 05:47:08 | n9xvt | this guy has built his own and many other items,, |
| 05:47:25 | UnhelpfulWeb | lucent: wouldn't 0x8 be 1<<3? |
| 05:49:25 | lucent | UnhelpfulWeb: hm... 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 |
| 05:49:59 | lucent | 00000001 oh... |
| 05:50:26 | lucent | 00001000 |
| 05:50:31 | | Quit wpyh (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 05:50:34 | lucent | UnhelpfulWeb: yeah I bet you're right on that one |
| 05:50:57 | scorche | n9xvt: shame it is a HWcodec device... |
| 05:51:12 | Rockrabbit | yes i agree - and that fits with the formula i was given that the pin is addressed by (1 << (x + 2)) where X is the pin number. Which would make 8 = pin 5. If thats true, im happy. |
| 05:52:09 | vertic23 | scorche: ...still waitin' for your hints :> |
| 05:52:25 | scorche | vertic23: sorry, but i am quite busy at the moment... |
| 05:52:46 | vertic23 | okay, I'm waiting then |
| 05:52:49 | vertic23 | how long? :P |
| 05:53:10 | scorche | if you wish to wait for me, likely about 4 hours |
| 05:53:16 | vertic23 | k |
| 05:53:21 | vertic23 | will you think of me? |
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| 06:00 |
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| 06:02:30 | UnhelpfulWeb | going to start on converting pictureflow for scaled loads. thoughts on what should be the "right" size to use? i'd say the largest square to fit on LCD * (zoom%), but that would mean a cache rebuild whenever we change the zoom setting. |
| 06:03:11 | UnhelpfulWeb | logging load times on e200 suggests to me that at least the 80MHz PP targets are not fast enough to do away with the pfraw cache :/ |
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| 06:13:23 | lucent | UnhelpfulWeb: IMO a patch first that does what you'd like, and then hack it to be fast enough? |
| 06:19:36 | UnhelpfulWeb | lucent: quality scaling is highly unlikely to be fast enough to drop the cache any time soon. i'm not sure just how fast PF will let you scroll, but it takes about .5s to scale down a 256x256 image to fit on the e200 screen |
| 06:21:19 | UnhelpfulWeb | the only way i can think of to get "rid" of the cache is to cache albums "near" the currently-viewed in the background, which of course has the caveat that if the user tries to scroll quickly right away, they will see lots of "no cover" images |
| 06:29:32 | UnhelpfulWeb | The question i'm asking is not so much "how do i use the scaled loader in PF" as it is "how big do i want the covers to be"... the wiki page for the plugin suggests using 100x100 cover arts, but clearly we don't want to just force a size in the source. |
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| 06:35:02 | lucent | UnhelpfulWeb: maybe half the largest dimension of the display, square, unless that doesn't fit on the display |
| 06:35:05 | lucent | hm |
| 06:35:10 | lee321987 | Is RB working on any DAPs that are currently in production? |
| 06:35:46 | lucent | lee321987: no supported release of rockbox runs on DAP currently in production. |
| 06:36:04 | lucent | lee321987: it's been that way for some years now I think |
| 06:36:46 | lucent | lee321987: need more programmers who are willing to tackle the SanDisk AMS AS3525 based players (e2x0 v2, Clip, Fuze) |
| 06:37:20 | lee321987 | what are the c200 v2's based on? |
| 06:37:48 | lucent | oh, I don't know off my immediate memory |
| 06:39:34 | lee321987 | thanks. TO ALL ROCKBOXERS - Have a merry Christmas/Hanukkah/ect... Peace |
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| 06:39:48 | UnhelpfulWeb | lucent: the source has a "PREFERRED_IMG_WIDTH" defined to 50 if LCD_HEIGHT < 100, 100 otherwise. perhaps i should just set that to MIN(LCD_WIDTH,LCD_HEIGHT)/2, and scale to that on load. |
| 06:40:03 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 06:41:13 | lucent | UnhelpfulWeb: that will make some people angry, but I would like to think that makes more sense |
| 06:41:38 | lucent | even though that means it's still hard-coded |
| 06:44:21 | UnhelpfulWeb | all of my album art is maximized, it never even occurred to me that i "should" be able to see other album cover except when it animated. like i said, we could base it on the zoom setting, but 1) the zoom setting is apparently supposed to be about changing the camera distance 2) that means cache rebuild on a setting change |
| 06:46:49 | | Quit Martyn () |
| 06:47:10 | lucent | I think I need a free reference introduction to ArM |
| 06:47:16 | lucent | ARM*... suggestions? |
| 06:48:08 | J-23 | ARM C programming? |
| 06:48:10 | J-23 | or ARM hardware? |
| 06:48:50 | UnhelpfulWeb | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DataSheets might cover what you need |
| 06:48:55 | lucent | my focus is to learn about assembly so I can disassemble code |
| 06:49:29 | J-23 | lucent: http://www.arm.com/miscPDFs/9658.pdf |
| 06:50:14 | * | lucent pokes download |
| 06:51:00 | * | J-23 downloaded it in four seconds |
| 06:51:44 | UnhelpfulWeb | lucent: looking to disassemble some OF code? or more to read what the compiler turns rockbox source into, for optimization purposes? |
| 06:52:06 | lucent | UnhelpfulWeb: disassemble some OF code |
| 06:52:41 | lucent | So, I need to brush up on ARM instructions and Thumb |
| 06:53:06 | lucent | J-23: nice link, thanks. I'm on a slow link at the moment hence it was a bit of a wait for me |
| 06:54:37 | lucent | I need a couch or something to kick back on and read this 156 page guide |
| 06:54:39 | lucent | ;P |
| 06:55:38 | Rockrabbit | c200's are AMS5325 |
| 06:55:50 | Rockrabbit | v2 that is |
| 06:56:09 | lucent | Rockrabbit: huh? not ams as3525? |
| 06:56:16 | UnhelpfulWeb | this cheat-sheet might also be helpful: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.qrc0001m/QRC0001_UAL.pdf |
| 06:57:10 | Rockrabbit | i guess i got the numbers mixed up |
| 07:00 |
| 07:00:55 | lucent | oohhh |
| 07:01:04 | lucent | UnhelpfulWeb: so um, BL is like jump with return? |
| 07:01:20 | lucent | not familiar with the term "branch" |
| 07:02:32 | UnhelpfulWeb | oh, geeze, it's been ages since i really knew anything about asm... "branch" instructions that i remember were more equivalent to goto |
| 07:03:35 | lucent | well what I remember was for Z80 CPU on Texas Instruments TI-83 graphing calculator |
| 07:03:56 | lucent | we had things like JP, JNZ, etc. |
| 07:21:02 | UnhelpfulWeb | lucent: i think that what i'm thinking about doing with PREFERRED_IMG_WIDTH is pretty close to what was intended, actually - it looks for a cover.NxN.bmp for that size, and loads that if found. so the big change here would be using the preferred size regardless of whether the user has already provided a BMP scaled to that size, and defining the preferred size based on a ratio to screen size, rather than as a stepwise-constant function |
| 07:23:18 | * | lucent :) |
| 07:24:16 | UnhelpfulWeb | also, i don't get to say "stepwise-constant" very often. |
| 07:25:01 | lucent | UnhelpfulWeb: in http://pastebin.ca/1288087 where the hell does "buttonlight(bool on) [r0]" come from? |
| 07:25:30 | lucent | UnhelpfulWeb: is that something kugel (the human responsible for that disassembly snippet) added, or debug info from OF? |
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| 07:27:08 | saratoga | lucent: reading the logs, what did you think I forgot? |
| 07:27:20 | UnhelpfulWeb | it could possibly be the latter. are you sure the snippet comes from the OF, and not some rockbox bit that he's debugging? |
| 07:28:31 | lucent | saratoga: shoot, it was just some smart-alecky comment by me... you suggested to write a zero-data file to fill out the FAT filesystem |
| 07:29:00 | lucent | saratoga: 'cept well, filesystem is 8GB FAT32, largest filesize is 1024*1024*1024-1 |
| 07:29:05 | lucent | err |
| 07:29:09 | lucent | my math is wrong |
| 07:29:15 | lucent | it is just shy of 4GB |
| 07:29:18 | saratoga | lucent: I assumed you knew how to create multiple files . . . |
| 07:29:25 | lucent | saratoga: I'm teasing :) |
| 07:29:35 | saratoga | this was worth asking me why exactly? |
| 07:30:30 | lucent | saratoga: no worries! |
| 07:31:03 | lucent | saratoga: I'm still confused though, I have a track preloaded on my Sansa Fuze, it is named "The Red Thread - Wax Museum" |
| 07:31:03 | saratoga | please don't ping me in the logs if you dont' need me |
| 07:31:37 | lucent | after deleting MTABLE.SYS (which contained the text of the name of the track) and filling up the FAT32 filesystem with zero-data files, and then unmounting |
| 07:31:54 | lucent | I grep through and there's still references to "Red Thread" and the song metadata |
| 07:31:59 | lucent | are there hidden files? |
| 07:32:23 | lucent | I'm not familiar with the Linux kernel vfat driver to know if hidden files show up or what is going on |
| 07:32:28 | saratoga | does the file play? |
| 07:33:51 | lucent | saratoga: the file doesn't show up when I mount the FAT32 filesystem |
| 07:34:15 | saratoga | but does it play? |
| 07:34:15 | lucent | saratoga: I'm confused if it's just leftover filesystem metadata, or if there's hidden data in the FAT32 filesystem that the vfat driver doesn't show me |
| 07:34:21 | lucent | play... where? |
| 07:34:30 | saratoga | where ever you saw it |
| 07:34:56 | lucent | I saw the filename in a hexeditor of the dump of the /dev/sdb |
| 07:35:10 | saratoga | ugh |
| 07:35:11 | lucent | I'm working on a local copy of that dump |
| 07:35:16 | saratoga | how should i know |
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| 07:35:33 | lucent | the question is about FAT32 and vfat though, maybe you know? |
| 07:35:49 | lucent | I haven't had to interact with hidden files before via vfat |
| 07:35:53 | UnhelpfulWeb | this should probably move to -community? |
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| 07:42:06 | mud-rb | this is probably a stupid question, but if my plugin spends all of its time waiting for button presses (ex. rb->button_get_w_tmo), then i don't have to worry about yielding, right? |
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| 08:58:25 | lucent | uhh... okay so I figured out the story on FAT32 filesystem of Sansa Fuze |
| 08:58:50 | lucent | the "##MUSIC#" and so on directories are stored weirdly, I think they are hidden attribute or something |
| 08:59:06 | lucent | their attribute is 0x18 but most normal directories are 0x10 |
| 08:59:22 | lucent | anyways, going in with a hex editor and changing 0x18 attribute to 0x10, they are now readable |
| 08:59:32 | Hillshum_ | thats been in the thread for awhile |
| 09:00 |
| 09:00:19 | * | lucent looks sad |
| 09:00:27 | lucent | I couldn't find it, which URL please? |
| 09:00:39 | lucent | I'm not happy to re-invent the wheel on this |
| 09:00:53 | Hillshum_ | some where in http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.0 |
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| 09:16:35 | lucent | Hillshum_: I see now, it's an abuse of ATTR_VOLUME_ID |
| 09:16:58 | * | Hillshum_ has no clue about that |
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| 09:19:58 | Hillshum_ | will my flyspray message just show up in pidgin? |
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| 09:26:24 | lucent | mine haven't |
| 09:26:37 | lucent | I specified a Gtalk username though which may be quirky |
| 09:28:20 | Martyn | SanDisk is about to release a WiFi enabled Sansa player |
| 09:28:35 | Martyn | As soon as that happens, I'm going to be a very, very happy RockBoxer |
| 09:28:37 | B4gder | isn't sansa connect that? |
| 09:28:54 | Martyn | Sort of, but the sansa connect has too small a screen, and too little capacity |
| 09:29:11 | B4gder | right but you said "a WiFi enabled Sansa player" |
| 09:29:21 | Martyn | This will have 16Gb flash, WiFi G networking, FM tuner (always a plus), and a nice big screen |
| 09:29:40 | Martyn | B4gder : True, true. |
| 09:29:48 | B4gder | it'll be interesting to see if they still use AMS |
| 09:29:54 | Martyn | *nod* |
| 09:30:02 | Martyn | Somehow, I doubt it. |
| 09:35:55 | lucent | the connect ran linux, don't think it was AMS |
| 09:36:24 | Martyn | Yep, but they might move to VxWorks |
| 09:36:32 | Martyn | SanDisk just made a deal with Wind River Systems |
| 09:36:39 | * | lucent lets out a hoot "yay!" |
| 09:36:51 | scorche | as a note, speculation of this sort should go in #rockbox-community... |
| 09:36:58 | lucent | I'm hooting about something else though |
| 09:37:34 | lucent | Hillshum: thanks for pointing me in the direction of that forum post, I made a similar patch to libfat code and got read access to that "hidden" stuff |
| 09:39:11 | B4gder | well, wind river does a lot of linux too these days |
| 09:39:18 | Martyn | scorche : Sure, but it's late at night :) |
| 09:39:21 | | Join n1s [0] (n=nils@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 09:40:01 | Martyn | In any case, I'm working on a new module and theme but have run into a brick wall as far as widget control goes. |
| 09:40:20 | scorche | Martyn: that doesnt mean that the channel guidelines go poof...also, not everyone in here is in the US |
| 09:40:21 | Martyn | I want to bring a very "slick" interface to RockBox, and have the UI experience to do it. |
| 09:40:30 | Martyn | scorche : Yes, I know :) |
| 09:40:49 | B4gder | slick interface in rockbox? yuck! B-] |
| 09:40:59 | * | B4gder hides |
| 09:41:29 | LinusN | we have a reputation to live up to |
| 09:41:43 | Martyn | Yeah yeah ... |
| 09:41:53 | B4gder | bags of ... and all |
| 09:42:01 | | Quit kachna|lappy (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 09:42:28 | Martyn | What I wanted to ask was "Is it better to develop for Stable, or for Daily?" |
| 09:42:36 | LinusN | our mission statement: "Develop the most complete bag of shit featurewise" |
| 09:42:41 | Martyn | If I'm working on low-level widgets, and such? |
| 09:42:45 | B4gder | Martyn: go against svn at once, I'd say |
| 09:42:53 | B4gder | it moves |
| 09:43:06 | | Quit Hillshum (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:46:27 | lucent | LinusN: are we changing it from "Release stable versions only when no hardware is in production that will run stable release" ? |
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| 09:46:46 | LinusN | lucent: :-) |
| 09:47:14 | LinusN | "Develop the most feature-filled bag of shit for outdated players" |
| 09:47:24 | B4gder | a mission statement! |
| 09:47:41 | lucent | I committed a wiki edit that links to the forum post mentioning "hidden" directories btw, on the SansaV2 page |
| 09:48:03 | pixelma | slick is hopefully not the only concern... I'd hope it's still usable, seeing what webdesigners seem to find "cool" these days |
| 09:48:16 | lucent | I'm almost convinced it's in the wrong page, but I don't talk much to pre-AMS Sansa owners |
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| 09:53:14 | linuxstb | Martyn: Which device(s) are you running Rockbox on? |
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| 09:56:09 | lucent | LinusN: I guess I could ask, if you would mind adding 'Sansa AMS' to the flyspray list of targets |
| 09:56:32 | lucent | LinusN: or Fuze + Clip + .... if it matters |
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| 09:57:22 | Martyn | linuxstb : Right now? ipod, sansa e250 |
| 09:57:32 | Martyn | I figured I should start with the most limited devices first |
| 09:57:39 | Martyn | I can get my hands on an archos and such later |
| 09:57:55 | linuxstb | Which ipod? |
| 09:58:17 | Martyn | 5.5 (video) |
| 09:58:32 | Martyn | e250R by the way .. loading the bootloader was an absolute PAIN |
| 09:58:46 | linuxstb | Good ;) The 5.5g has a nice big LCD and relatively slow CPU. |
| 09:58:51 | Martyn | The "rockbox utility" app can't find the files it needs .. 404's all over the place |
| 09:59:07 | Martyn | linuxstb : Yep, that's why I picked it. Got it on eBay for $50 |
| 09:59:33 | Zagor | lucent: we normally don't want bug reports on ports in progress |
| 09:59:35 | Martyn | The sansa e250R was free(ish) .. got it in a Woot Bag-of-Crap |
| 10:00 |
| 10:02:04 | lucent | nice score from WOOT |
| 10:03:21 | Martyn | Yep, got a couple music players in the last few BoC's |
| 10:03:31 | Martyn | The Sansa is the only one that will run RockBox |
| 10:03:34 | Martyn | The Fuze won't |
| 10:03:54 | Martyn | And for whatever reason, I can't load it on the iRiver U series |
| 10:04:26 | lucent | well, the Fuze doesn't run Rockbox very well, yet |
| 10:04:35 | Martyn | Right. |
| 10:04:46 | Martyn | Will the connect run it? |
| 10:04:56 | lucent | ha, connect? I haven't any idea |
| 10:05:05 | linuxstb | Martyn: The website has a handy list of supported targets at the top of the front page... |
| 10:05:18 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 10:05:48 | Martyn | I saw :) |
| 10:10:22 | Zagor | I think it would be nice if (at least) rockbox devs filled in their real name in their irc client. I keep having trouble connecting list mails to the person in irc. |
| 10:12:19 | B4gder | Martyn: there's been some work on the Connect and I think the wiki page on it has the details |
| 10:21:07 | Martyn | Found it. |
| 10:21:24 | Martyn | That's why I use "Martyn" .. real names are easier |
| 10:21:41 | Martyn | Well, one thing I can't complain about is the organization of the SVN code ... |
| 10:21:57 | Martyn | It's all rather well laid out, and will make updating the widgets quite easy for me. |
| 10:23:45 | Martyn | I'm guessing the lack of certain optimizations in widget processing are due to having to be so cross-platform? |
| 10:24:21 | B4gder | Martyn: well, lots of things just never was done... |
| 10:24:57 | B4gder | but yes, the many targets are somewhat problematic |
| 10:25:20 | GodEater | Zagor: isn't that what the irc nicks page in the wiki is for ;) |
| 10:26:36 | Zagor | GodEater: I was waiting for that :-) it's a hassle having to cross-reference that all the time, using the real-name field is a lot more helpful. |
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| 10:29:21 | lucent | wpyh: thanks for the suggestions earlier about Fuze target |
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| 10:31:32 | wpyh | lucent: was it useful? |
| 10:32:25 | bodymind | hei |
| 10:33:00 | lucent | wpyh: I'm still doing a lot of catch-up just on the little things, like I only now understand that the "##MUSIC#" folder is a directory on the internal FAT32 with a weird attribute so the Linux vfat driver omits it... and I'm going to keep trying best I can on other things ;) |
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| 10:33:17 | lucent | sleep time for me now though |
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| 10:34:29 | wpyh | :) |
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| 10:37:25 | * | wpyh thinks the svn layout is a bit weird, but won't complain either |
| 10:37:43 | Martyn | Not -that- wierd, I was able to find the code I need to edit readily enough. |
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| 10:38:30 | wpyh | I guess it's not modular enough |
| 10:40:02 | B4gder | not enough for what? |
| 10:40:07 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:46:14 | wpyh | for an pluggable alternative GUI's to be written easily ;) (I guess someone will bash me for this) |
| 10:46:45 | B4gder | I would say having such a modular thing with no alternative GUI around is stupid |
| 10:47:09 | B4gder | we normally don't do things "just in case" |
| 10:47:17 | wpyh | well, alternative GUI's are a big no-no for some devs, so I understand |
| 10:47:40 | GodEater | I've never heard that |
| 10:47:44 | B4gder | I'm not arguing against an alternative, just that preparing the code in advance for it isn't a good idea |
| 10:47:48 | GodEater | only no-one has ever bothered to write one |
| 10:47:57 | * | wpyh checks the logs |
| 10:48:24 | B4gder | if the effect on the code isn't too big I certainly won't mind it |
| 10:48:56 | | Join Rockrabbit [0] (n=3aac9a01@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-bba518306bcd230a) |
| 10:49:25 | * | GodEater does care about the effect on the code much - only about the effect on the target / bin size |
| 10:49:52 | wpyh | well, someone asked about the functional benefits of a big-icon menu system that I proposed |
| 10:50:01 | Rockrabbit | Can arm-elf-objdump be used to dump the contents of a Sansa c200 v2 firmware file? If so how is it done, and if not what can I use? thanks |
| 10:50:06 | wpyh | It's all here at 06:00 http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20080719 |
| 10:50:12 | Martyn | wpyh : No bashing. It's modular enough for me to write new widgets, which is the start |
| 10:50:38 | B4gder | wpyh: well I certainly could argue against the idea of such an ui, but not against allowing one to be made |
| 10:50:40 | Martyn | wpyh : After checking out the code, it's only taken me about four hours to get a first-approximation implemenation of a spinner widget |
| 10:50:59 | wpyh | Martyn: well, it's modular enough for that :) |
| 10:51:14 | Martyn | wpyh : Well, I do UI's for a living |
| 10:51:16 | B4gder | Rockrabbit: yes it can |
| 10:51:27 | Martyn | There are four widgets I need, plus a few functions that aren't available. |
| 10:51:37 | Martyn | One of which is a alpha-channel aware compositor |
| 10:51:46 | B4gder | Rockrabbit: arm-elf-objdump -D −−target binary -marm [file] |
| 10:51:50 | wpyh | B4gder: no idea / UI design is perfect ;) |
| 10:52:17 | wpyh | Martyn: in that case, I wish you success −− Rockbox would benefit from a better UI |
| 10:52:21 | B4gder | wpyh: no, but I was trying to clarify that the discussion is two-fold: the one about the particular UI and the one about allowing it to be "pluggable" |
| 10:52:35 | Zagor | Martyn: for us GUI challenged persons, what is a spinner widget? |
| 10:52:37 | Martyn | wpyh : Agreed. Or, if not a "better" UI, a different one. |
| 10:52:55 | Martyn | Zagor : A spinner is a kind of select box, that shows you the previous and next value |
| 10:52:55 | wpyh | well, a different one might not be so practical... |
| 10:53:08 | * | wpyh was thinking about something that spins |
| 10:53:08 | Martyn | Zagor : Commonly used in the iPhone, for example, to select dates |
| 10:53:30 | * | B4gder has seen an iphone on a picture... |
| 10:53:48 | Martyn | but also used in a lot of embedded devices to suggest that the list of items you're scrolling through is large |
| 10:53:58 | Martyn | without actually showing all the values |
| 10:54:07 | wpyh | B4gder: the UI being pluggable means that new UI's can be easily added. However, new UI's are likely to meet opposition, so it's more like a chicken-egg problem |
| 10:54:26 | B4gder | wpyh: I disagree |
| 10:54:27 | Zagor | http://caspar.regis.free.fr/spinner/img/spinner.png ? |
| 10:54:42 | Martyn | wpyh : One of the nice things about Open Source software .. is that any additions I make start as patch-commits :) |
| 10:54:48 | Martyn | I can always maintain the patches |
| 10:54:49 | wpyh | Martyn: hey, I can think of useful things to do with your spinner. like for example the volume settings in the settings menu |
| 10:55:10 | Martyn | Yes Zagor, that is a simple implemenation of a spinner |
| 10:55:13 | wpyh | B4gder: which one do you disagree with: the opposition, or the chicken-egg problem? |
| 10:55:14 | Zagor | ok |
| 10:55:19 | B4gder | however, I don't think doing a "pluggable UI" is an easy thing nor do I think the impact will be small |
| 10:55:36 | Martyn | although that spinner shows only one value, and only suggests the previous and next ones .. in the case of the one you found, it implies "+1, -1" |
| 10:55:40 | B4gder | and there is where the obejctions will come |
| 10:56:01 | Martyn | wpyh : There are a number of widgets missing |
| 10:56:12 | wpyh | I think the impact being not small is where the objections come from |
| 10:56:17 | B4gder | wpyh: I don't think there's a chicken-egg problem |
| 10:56:23 | Martyn | wpyh : I'll just implement the most used ones first, then go from there |
| 10:56:32 | wpyh | Martyn: great :) |
| 10:56:33 | Zagor | I wouldn't mind big changes, if it is done well. |
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| 10:56:49 | Martyn | One of the things I need to implement is a "canvas" |
| 10:57:00 | Martyn | That's how icon-driven interfaces are created |
| 10:57:09 | n1s | Zagor: depend on what is changed too, no? |
| 10:57:11 | Martyn | And once you have a canvas, you can do interesting things on it... |
| 10:57:12 | n1s | :) |
| 10:58:02 | Zagor | n1s: well, no. generally anything that is useful and done well is welcome in my view. |
| 10:58:19 | Martyn | Oh −− good example where a spinner would be useful −−- |
| 10:58:35 | Martyn | "settings" "display" "peak meter" |
| 10:58:43 | wpyh | B4gder: well, there is just one UI, and new UI's are not easily accepted, then there would be no need to make it pluggable, so it would be more difficult to write new UI's, so there will be less new UI ideas, therefore the dependency loops |
| 10:58:49 | wpyh | (not strictly looping though) |
| 10:58:54 | Martyn | The minimum/maximum range should be in a spinner, not a list |
| 10:59:31 | wpyh | Martyn: you mean a canvas is where you draw your widgets? |
| 10:59:32 | n1s | Zagor: isn't a changes usefull |
| 10:59:33 | Zagor | wpyh: the first person/team to create a new gui has to pull a heavy load, yes. that cannot be avoided. |
| 10:59:37 | Martyn | Since the concept of a range -implies- that the values are all listed as integers from +- |
| 10:59:43 | Martyn | wpyh : Correct |
| 10:59:46 | B4gder | wpyh: yes, I understand what a chicken-egg problem is, but again I don't agree that this is one |
| 10:59:52 | n1s | ness depending on _what_ the change is? |
| 10:59:53 | wpyh | Zagor: yes. |
| 10:59:59 | Martyn | wpyh : Also objects (such as icons) are drawn on the canvas, and then you can do -very- interesting things |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:22 | Martyn | (by shifting, moving, etc...) |
| 11:00:35 | Zagor | n1s: we have plenty of proposed changes (patches) that I don't consider useful |
| 11:00:56 | Martyn | plus the canvas can be much larger than the actual physical display, allowing for interesting UI modes (such as having predrawn pages flick left and right) |
| 11:02:02 | n1s | Zagor: yes, that's what i meant. Your "I wouldn't mind big changes, if it is done well." comment sounded like "Any change is fine as long as the code is clean" but maybe i'm just too tired |
| 11:02:07 | wpyh | B4gder: yes, on a second thought, this is not strictly a chicken-egg problem |
| 11:02:35 | B4gder | I would rather agree with Zagor that the first one going for a new GUI has some heavy lifting to do |
| 11:02:45 | wpyh | it just seems that (sorry) devs are mostly opposed to changes |
| 11:02:54 | B4gder | I disagree with that too |
| 11:02:59 | wpyh | I do agree with Zagor on that |
| 11:03:07 | Zagor | Martyn: what is the practical difference between a canvas and the frame buffer? |
| 11:03:08 | * | Martyn flexes digital muscles. |
| 11:03:23 | Martyn | Zagor : Frame buffers are stored in video memory, and represent an actual screen? |
| 11:03:31 | Martyn | A canvas is an abstraction |
| 11:03:44 | Zagor | Martyn: in that case we already use a canvas :) |
| 11:03:51 | Martyn | Zagor : -sort- of |
| 11:04:04 | wpyh | well, my observation is that devs like the status quo very much ;) |
| 11:04:25 | B4gder | wpyh: that's not my view of it |
| 11:04:36 | Martyn | Zagor : What's in the code is more like a Virtual Framebuffer than an actual canvas |
| 11:04:37 | B4gder | my view is that devs are careful to not bloat or do harm |
| 11:04:54 | Zagor | Martyn: ok, what is the difference between those? |
| 11:05:46 | wpyh | B4gder: I think they are different views of the same situation |
| 11:05:52 | Martyn | The simplest canvas is a kind of container, that contains widgets. The widgets have properties (layer, Zpos, Xpos) |
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| 11:06:02 | | Quit Rockrabbit ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 11:06:03 | Zagor | you don't have to give me a "GUI course 1a" if you don't want to :-) it's not strictly on topic either... |
| 11:06:05 | pixelma | the "problem" is that the current GUI might not look "slick" but works well - on all targets and also for the blind or visually impaired |
| 11:06:20 | wpyh | So, after drawing on the canvas, you would copy it over to the framebuffer for display? |
| 11:06:25 | B4gder | wpyh: yes, but with an important distinction: the devs are not opposed to change if the change is done fine with a good purpose |
| 11:06:57 | linuxstb | My view is that Rockbox's current feature set is complete (for my needs). So the focus should be on making all existing features work perfectly on all hardware. But I accept that's not what most people enjoy doing, and Rockbox hacking is just people doing what they find fun. |
| 11:07:14 | Martyn | Zagor : Example by analogy. X-Windows can run on top of a framebufffer, but it doesn't provide widgets by itself. X manages various things like the mouse, keyboard, and rendering to the screen. |
| 11:07:14 | wpyh | pixelma: you've got a point there. maybe I'm looking for ways to make it look nice without making it bloat too much |
| 11:07:22 | Martyn | A canvas is like a Window Manager |
| 11:07:23 | pixelma | and these two things I would want even for a new GUI and so far haven't seen a good suggestion |
| 11:07:29 | UnhelpfulWeb | i think if there's anywhere to "improve" the current GUI it would be in rearranging the menu heirarchy. lists of text trump icons every time, unless you have a desktop worth of space in which to present options. |
| 11:07:37 | wpyh | B4gder:I'll keep that in mind |
| 11:07:47 | Martyn | It's one level abstracted away from X, providing the widgets and placement that make the UI useable to developers |
| 11:08:13 | wpyh | pixelma: which two? |
| 11:08:19 | linuxstb | Martyn: Remember that Rockbox devices are constrained in terms of cpu and memory. You have no malloc for example. |
| 11:08:34 | Zagor | Martyn: aha, I get it. thanks. |
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| 11:08:56 | Martyn | linuxtsb : I've spent the last 10 years making UI's for cellular phones, set-top boxes, and kids toys. I know -constrained- :) |
| 11:09:06 | pixelma | wpyh: working on all targets (or screens) and usable even for visually impaired) |
| 11:09:49 | Martyn | linuxstb : However, since rockbox runs under a linux kernel, I can trust the kernel to deal with alloc() and all it's ilk |
| 11:09:56 | linuxstb | It does? |
| 11:09:58 | pixelma | huh? |
| 11:10:04 | Zagor | Martyn: it doesn't |
| 11:10:06 | wpyh | ok, I guess I don't know anyone who is visually impaired. by that, do you mean people who must use the speech synthesizer? |
| 11:10:29 | Martyn | Zagor : I didn't mean on the device .. I meant when I want to simulate something without a device |
| 11:10:30 | * | dionoea wonders where the linux/rockbox confusion began... and why |
| 11:10:41 | Martyn | <−−- uses linux to develop |
| 11:10:48 | Zagor | Martyn: ah |
| 11:11:10 | Zagor | Martyn: it seems odd to use alloc in the sim though since that code then won't work on target |
| 11:11:16 | scorche | dionoea: it would be madness to write one's own everything when linux exists! |
| 11:11:20 | wpyh | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyNoMalloc |
| 11:11:26 | dionoea | scorche: hehe ;) |
| 11:11:29 | pixelma | wpyh: yes, people who can't see good enough to read the display or have a hard time to |
| 11:11:39 | Martyn | malloc() is expensive |
| 11:12:30 | wpyh | pixelma: well, I can't help in that area −− but I also don't think a different, alternative UI will make it harder for them to use RB. |
| 11:13:35 | Martyn | Frankly, one of the reasons we always develop a new UI for most devices -is- because each device has different constraints |
| 11:14:57 | Zagor | we use the same UI since 2002 ;-) |
| 11:14:58 | Martyn | One of the toys I worked on, basically a little IM messaging device (looks like a pager) had four revs of hardware. first one had a 160x160 greyscale screen .. second had a color screen of the same resolution .. third had a 320x320 screen, and the last one to come out had a 640x480 screen before the company went under. |
| 11:15:40 | Martyn | Zagor : That's not a good thing. |
| 11:15:45 | Martyn | Not even a little. |
| 11:16:05 | B4gder | well, now it's much fancier than 2002 |
| 11:16:18 | Martyn | Again, that's not better either. |
| 11:16:21 | B4gder | I mean colors and icons and so |
| 11:16:21 | n1s | we've added colours and stuff |
| 11:16:35 | Martyn | I'd argue that the original iPod UI was brilliant, compared to almost any other PMP available at the time. |
| 11:16:50 | B4gder | Martyn: it also depends on the audience |
| 11:17:01 | Martyn | Because it displayed all the information needed very clearly, and used a minimum number of physical controls to do it. |
| 11:17:06 | B4gder | we don't have the typical ipod users in our audience |
| 11:17:23 | wpyh | Martyn: there goes −− please don't praise the iPod UI on this channel |
| 11:17:38 | n1s | wpyh: why not? |
| 11:17:53 | Martyn | The design was quite good, for the time. Today, we'd laugh at it. |
| 11:18:04 | Martyn | But it met all the constraints of the device it was designed for. |
| 11:18:16 | Martyn | And that, not any particular love of the device, is what I'm getting at. |
| 11:18:22 | wpyh | n1s: well, I got smacked once for doing that (IIRC it was on the community channel though) |
| 11:18:26 | Martyn | As I said, I'm a UI designer and programmer. |
| 11:18:37 | n1s | Martyn: a fair deal of though has gone in to the rockbox ui and it works very well for many people it sju may not look very fancy |
| 11:18:43 | * | gevaerts guesses that Martyn uses gnome or kde |
| 11:18:46 | pixelma | wpyh: there was an argument during the inline settings discussion (seems this spinner is a similar idea) - you have to know exactly if you are currently changing the setting or just "hovered" over the item |
| 11:18:47 | n1s | eh s/sju/just/ |
| 11:19:12 | Martyn | In the case of the current UI on the little Sansa e250R ... the icons are far too small, and the fonts almost unreadable in the current layout. That small display demands that the UI be paged. |
| 11:19:40 | pixelma | you know that you can change fonts and icons? |
| 11:19:40 | Martyn | On a bigger device, or on a screen with more real estate (say, the 5.5 version of the iPod) the layout looks good, and is quite usable. |
| 11:20:14 | Martyn | pixelma : Yes. That's not enough. The information must be able to be arranged and displayed in a way that best uses the screen. As I said, 'paged', not listed |
| 11:20:29 | gevaerts | Martyn: I strongly disagree there |
| 11:20:31 | Martyn | Give me a couple weeks, and you'll start seeing it in the code and in functional mockups |
| 11:20:41 | pixelma | how? And how will you navigate this? |
| 11:20:50 | Martyn | gevaerts : That's certainly your right and opinion :) |
| 11:20:52 | wpyh | pixelma: ah, ok. maybe there could be a better way of presenting it to the person? |
| 11:21:01 | * | B4gder looks forward to some interesting discussions ;-) |
| 11:21:14 | gevaerts | Martyn: sure, and when I'm in user mode, that trumps any UI specialist :) |
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| 11:21:35 | wpyh | like, when he hovers on Volume, which is -30dB currently: "Volume, minus thirty decibels" |
| 11:21:47 | Martyn | pixelma : well, once I have a canvas implemented, the navigation will likely be more or less the same as current. When you reach the end of a page, it flips to the next one. |
| 11:22:30 | Zagor | Martyn: I look forward to seeing your ideas. Welcome to the project! |
| 11:22:33 | gevaerts | How is that better than scrolling? Surely that's a _huge_ step back? |
| 11:22:56 | | Join tyfoo [0] (n=tyfoo@dyndsl-095-033-103-103.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 11:23:03 | * | UnhelpfulWeb does not see the improvement in scrolling the list by pages instead of lines |
| 11:23:16 | wpyh | then if he clicks, "changing volume". if he scrolls, read the volume level. if he confirms the change, "new volume, minus thirty five decibels". if he cancels the change, "volume unchanged". |
| 11:23:32 | pixelma | that's not much different to a list - and it doesn' let me see options in advance _regularly_ - at one point you'll see none ahead and next a lot (bot none of the previous) |
| 11:23:34 | Martyn | gevaerts : Perhaps I should do a Flash mockup of some of the interface ideas. Only takes me a couple days, and I can easily simulate the way a few devices would work.... |
| 11:23:44 | * | wpyh personally thinks scrolling by lines is better than by page |
| 11:23:47 | alexbobp | cancellable volume changing? |
| 11:23:53 | gevaerts | Martyn: you can, but I won't have a look at it then :) |
| 11:23:53 | alexbobp | why? |
| 11:23:58 | * | gevaerts won't install Flash |
| 11:24:10 | Martyn | gev : Then that's your own personal issue :) |
| 11:24:15 | Zagor | Martyn: that would be a good basis for discussion |
| 11:24:20 | Martyn | gev : Borrow a friends machine then. -laugh-0 |
| 11:24:26 | gevaerts | Martyn: Flash is a UI disaster |
| 11:24:27 | Martyn | Or use a library computer that has it installed :) |
| 11:24:33 | wpyh | alexbobp: I'm talking about the volume setting in the sound settings menu |
| 11:24:39 | pixelma | Martyn: also remember that our targets have a restricted amount of buttons and or weird layouts of them (and there are quite some differences) |
| 11:24:55 | Martyn | gevaerts : I'm not going to get drawn into a "XXX sucks" debate. I just use the tools I use :) |
| 11:25:03 | wpyh | Martyn: how about doing it in the uisim? |
| 11:25:05 | Zagor | let's not all kick him in the knees before he's even made an attempt, ok? |
| 11:25:28 | pixelma | okok |
| 11:25:33 | Martyn | wpyh : uisim would require a full implementation first. Flash I can do a fast mockup of what I intend to implement, so people can get an idea of how it looks and feels. |
| 11:25:56 | scorche | Martyn: are you aware of tab-completion for nicks? |
| 11:26:11 | wpyh | Martyn: I do prefer scrolling by lines, but I do like a new option that makes RB scroll by page |
| 11:26:14 | alexbobp | wpyh: oh. I didn't know there was a volume control in the settings. |
| 11:26:24 | Martyn | pixelma : That's why I chose the Sansa e250R and the iPod gen 5.5 to start with .. easy enough to get, and one of them is pretty restricted in the amount of memory, buttons, etc |
| 11:26:51 | Martyn | scorche : That's a per-client implementation. I've got it currently disabled in Linkinus |
| 11:27:01 | alexbobp | maybe his tab complete feature adds the space ;) |
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| 11:27:58 | * | GodEater would look at the flash implementation. I'm not a flash-a-phobe like gevaerts |
| 11:28:11 | n1s | Martyn: i'm not sure if your'e aware, but we have an option called "paged scrolling" that makes lists scroll by page |
| 11:28:28 | wpyh | pixelma: talking about simplifying the UI, is it acceptable if the cabbiev2 ui is made simpler? I think the gradient background is an useless attempt at looking slick. (I'm aware of the other themes) |
| 11:28:45 | Martyn | I should probably also pick up an iRiver H140 or something like it, as a good third device |
| 11:28:52 | wpyh | n1s:I'm not aware of that |
| 11:28:54 | Martyn | n1s : That's not the kind of page I mean :) |
| 11:29:13 | Martyn | although that kind of paging is -also- good :) |
| 11:29:18 | linuxstb | Martyn: Having a target with an LCD remote would probably be useful - the H140 fits that category. |
| 11:29:31 | n1s | then I don't understand what kind of page you mean |
| 11:29:45 | Martyn | I mean page as in "canvas page" or "new drawing" |
| 11:30:48 | pixelma | wpyh: I didn't invent this, maybe you could take it to the "default theme contest" thread in the forums and ask the creator about it? |
| 11:30:49 | Martyn | In terms of UI, think of it like opening a new "tab" in a browser .. somewhere you can present information in a different layout, appropriate to the information you're trying to input or display |
| 11:31:09 | alexbobp | Martyn: if you do it in flash, I promise I will look at it and relay the information to those who can't ;) |
| 11:31:10 | wpyh | pixelma: ok |
| 11:31:30 | Martyn | Layouts on a canvas are generally considered to follow a "flow" ... this item is on top of another item, and next to a third item. |
| 11:31:52 | Martyn | Or "These three items must be displayed evenly spaced, and centered" |
| 11:32:19 | Martyn | This is how, for example, things are laid out in GTK+ ( just as an example ) |
| 11:32:59 | Martyn | In embedded devices, it's possible to make a very lightweight canvas implementation, if you keep the number and types of widgets restricted. |
| 11:33:48 | Martyn | The basic types are generally on the order of : "canvas" "textbox" "listbox" "scroll" "slider" "inputtextbox" "button" etc.. etc.. |
| 11:34:36 | alexbobp | oh, I see what he's saying |
| 11:35:03 | Martyn | For a Canon camera I worked on, the entire UI (framebuffer, canvas, widgets, the whole works) fit in 220K of memory |
| 11:35:05 | pixelma | seems I didn't understand what you meant with "paged" there but I guess I'm not the only one :) |
| 11:35:29 | Martyn | This is going to take a bit of typing .. but I'll try to be concise: |
| 11:35:35 | Martyn | PseudoCode: |
| 11:35:58 | Martyn | Well, PseudoDataStructure really |
| 11:36:30 | Martyn | [Canvas name=settings] |
| 11:37:16 | pixelma | whole Rockbox is 250kB on the OndioFM (IIRC) - the firmware file that's really needed for basic functionality such as playing music (without fonts, plugins etc.) |
| 11:37:33 | Martyn | pixelma : That one would then drop canvas support |
| 11:37:42 | Martyn | and use the current UI |
| 11:38:12 | Martyn | Or perhaps I could make it quite small .. but I'm bettingthat the Ondio has a text interface... |
| 11:39:01 | Martyn | No, looking at the screenshots, I'm -dead- sure I could still make the UI work |
| 11:39:10 | Martyn | Monochrome, very small screen. |
| 11:39:17 | pixelma | text interface? Well it has a bitmap LCD... but I think I stop here |
| 11:39:57 | Martyn | Yeah, I think the constraint would be purely how small the firmware file has to be. That's all hand tuning |
| 11:40:05 | Martyn | and I'm quite good at making a small interface |
| 11:40:12 | Martyn | but back to the example I was trying for.. |
| 11:40:42 | Martyn | Canvas contains all the objects for a given display .. and a definition of a DisplayPort that defines the physical dimensions and capabilities of the display |
| 11:40:47 | wpyh | Martyn: I seriously think you should do a flash mockup of what you want to do, on charcell, monochrome and colour targets. that way, the devs might want to take a look at it. disclaimer: I'm not a dev |
| 11:41:38 | Martyn | Then you create a "page" ( a given interface ) on the canvas. It's a logical datastructure that defines what widgets are on the display, and the callbacks that will update them |
| 11:42:15 | GodEater | wpyh: will you please stop putting words in other people's mouths? People here are trying to understand Martyn's concept, not shoot it down. |
| 11:43:21 | Martyn | A page, therefore can be thought of as an arrangement of widgets. |
| 11:43:30 | Martyn | Sound Settings, for example, wouldn't have to be a list of lists. |
| 11:44:27 | Martyn | It would be single page with four sliders ( Volume, Bass, Treble, Balance ) arranged on top of one another |
| 11:44:51 | Martyn | You select one of them, and then use whatever available keys you have to slide the widget left/right |
| 11:45:19 | Martyn | Once a value is selected, the page then activates "select an item" rather tan "configure this given widget" |
| 11:46:01 | Martyn | Channel configuration would be on the same page, as a "selection scroll" with six values in it (stereo, mono, etc) |
| 11:46:15 | Martyn | You get the idea I think from here.. |
| 11:46:48 | Martyn | You already have some similar concepts already in the code. |
| 11:46:54 | Martyn | I found the "Graphical EQ" |
| 11:47:25 | Martyn | and that's a good example of a multiwidget page |
| 11:47:59 | Martyn | The idea here is that those kinds of widgets would be available everywhere in the interface. |
| 11:49:10 | Martyn | For devices with more capability, more of the UI widget base becomes available. |
| 11:49:47 | Martyn | Things like image sliders, object composition, perhaps even things like a video window |
| 11:49:55 | Martyn | but that's for far, far later. |
| 11:50:19 | Martyn | for now, I'll be happy to implement a scrollbox :) |
| 11:51:24 | Martyn | Crap, power cut out. |
| 11:51:36 | Martyn | Stupid cold weather. |
| 11:52:02 | Martyn | I'll continue this discussion later .. when we're all awake, and do a simple flash mockup of some of the interface ideas. |
| 11:52:13 | * | GodEater looks forward to seeing it |
| 11:52:16 | Martyn | Meanwhile, I'll keep editing code to get a few widgets I'd like to use :) |
| 11:52:21 | gevaerts | Martyn: Just be careful not to take options away from us :) |
| 11:52:28 | Martyn | *nod* |
| 11:52:48 | Martyn | Well, considering I don't have commit access ... I don't think that's a problem gev |
| 11:53:17 | gevaerts | Martyn: I meant more that "dumbing down" the interface is a good way to get any proposal shot down here |
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| 12:20:29 | soap | Llorean, when you wake up: Can you tell who put any given post in the trash? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=19834.msg132751 is not a terribly useful post, but it is not far astray from the rest of that thread and I think it was bad PR to remove it. I wouldn't mind your opinion on it and your movement of said post back to the thread (I'll be at work) if you concur. |
| 12:22:03 | scorche | soap: he did |
| 12:22:05 | GodEater | I thought that too soap |
| 12:22:22 | soap | GodEater's on my side? |
| 12:22:27 | soap | back it goes! |
| 12:22:58 | GodEater | I don't think I've deleted a post for a while |
| 12:24:10 | | Join moos [0] (i=moos@rockbox/staff/moos) |
| 12:24:35 | GodEater | I find dropping a valium before I read through the forums has chilled me out enormously |
| 12:25:00 | scorche | GodEater: the unlogged channel is over there−−> ;) |
| 12:25:37 | GodEater | I don't mind that staying for posterity ;) |
| 12:25:55 | soap | Llorean, IMHO there are plenty of "Offerings of Opinion" in that thread and I see no reason (outside a bit of lazy spelling) why this one was singled out. If you had a previous discourse with said poster regarding their lazy spelling or some other reason for shit-canning the message I'm curious. I did move it back - not looking to start a fight - just feel the trash-binning was bad PR IMHO. |
| 12:31:18 | stu8ball | Hi all. |
| 12:31:34 | stu8ball | You know the way Rockbox remembers between reboots what song it was playing, and what its position in the song was? |
| 12:31:56 | Zagor | stu8ball: we call it "resume" |
| 12:31:57 | stu8ball | When I mount my DAP as a USB disk on the computer, what file can I find that info in? |
| 12:34:27 | Zagor | stu8ball: /.rockbox/config.cfg |
| 12:35:27 | stu8ball | k, thanks |
| 12:35:34 | PaulJam | i thought nvram.bin and .plalyst_control |
| 12:35:35 | GodEater | is it ? |
| 12:35:43 | * | GodEater agrees with PaulJam |
| 12:36:01 | Zagor | oh dear. /me reads the code poorly then. |
| 12:37:28 | stu8ball | ok |
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| 12:42:16 | planetbeing | GodEater_: I was randomly poking in the irc logs and noticed you looking at xpwn source, trying to see if a similar DFU mode can be used on the second generation nano. |
| 12:42:45 | planetbeing | Any luck with that? |
| 12:43:25 | planetbeing | Be aware that DFU mode code on the iPhone and iPod touch is probably written by Samsung, not Apple. |
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| 12:45:11 | planetbeing | Also, the xpwn dfu-util is basically openmoko's version, but adding a really random security checksum with some sort of hardcoded salt. The code is in iTunesMobileDevice.dll, which is probably iPhone/iPod touch specific. |
| 12:47:00 | planetbeing | Lastly, DFU mode on the iPhone loads code into RAM, applies a RSA signature check on it and then executes it (this takes place on DFU manifest as described by the standard USB DFU specs) |
| 12:48:02 | planetbeing | We defeat the signature check using a stack overflow in the DER certificate parsing code. |
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| 12:50:56 | planetbeing | I've noticed that the iPod efforts are always said to be stymied by "encryption". But if there's only that and no codesigning, then one kernel bug in any firmware revision and you win forever, so your path is easier than ours was. |
| 12:53:00 | GodEater | planetbeing: a fellow rockboxer found DFU mode on the 2nd Gen Nano, but only by trashing the firmware partition first |
| 12:53:13 | n1s | I don't think it's known that there |
| 12:53:17 | GodEater | I was searching for the same on the 3rd gen nano - but that's proved impossible so far |
| 12:53:17 | n1s | 's no signing |
| 12:53:41 | GodEater | since the UMS on the iPod's side doesn't export the firmware partition (if there even is one) |
| 12:54:17 | planetbeing | Interesting that theres no buttom sequence. |
| 12:54:20 | GodEater | some of our other hackers have modified the openmoko DFU tool to work with other players (meizu) |
| 12:54:31 | GodEater | planetbeing: well - not one that we've found anyway ;) |
| 12:55:02 | planetbeing | But youve got a DFU mode endpoint out of the firmware trashin? |
| 12:55:09 | GodEater | I came to the iphone scene a little late - was the DFU key sequence on that documented somewhere by apple, or found by someone else ? |
| 12:55:18 | GodEater | planetbeing: only on the 2G yes |
| 12:55:24 | planetbeing | theres a chance code in the clear could be sent |
| 12:55:38 | planetbeing | does itunes offer to do anything with it? |
| 12:55:41 | GodEater | that was the theory yes - no idea what was tried after that |
| 12:55:57 | GodEater | planetbeing: not sure, as I say, I don't have a 2G, so it wasn't me that was working on it |
| 12:56:07 | planetbeing | all right. |
| 12:56:09 | GodEater | LamdaCalculus37 is our 2G owner |
| 12:56:30 | planetbeing | has there been any effort with fuzzing the firmware? |
| 12:56:45 | GodEater | I think there's basically been zero effort so far |
| 12:56:58 | planetbeing | im not sure what the situation is with the ipod firmware. does everything work in kernel mode? |
| 12:56:59 | GodEater | none of the people here with the smarts owned a latter model ipod until recently |
| 12:57:09 | GodEater | and everyone else that turned up interested in a port lacked the skill to do anything |
| 12:57:17 | planetbeing | I see. |
| 12:57:54 | * | GodEater wonders why whenever planetbeing turns up, the rest of the rockbox hacker community seem to disappear, and he's left answering all the questions on his own :( |
| 12:58:06 | planetbeing | hah. |
| 12:58:26 | planetbeing | who else is interested in the port in this community? |
| 12:58:48 | GodEater | the previous gen hackers on the ipod include linuxstb, amiconn and jhMikes |
| 12:59:13 | GodEater | there are probably others too, but they're the main experts as far as I'm aware |
| 12:59:35 | GodEater | linuxstb is UK based like me, amiconn is in Germany, and jhMikes is in the US I think |
| 12:59:50 | GodEater | I was trying to persuade amiconn to go to your CCC presentation |
| 12:59:57 | GodEater | but he's been grumpy and said no :) |
| 12:59:58 | Zagor | I'd say there are plenty of us interested in a port, but since the prospects have looked grim many people have avoided getting an ipod. |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:03 | planetbeing | Haha. |
| 13:00:46 | Zagor | targets with many users have a special appeal |
| 13:01:09 | planetbeing | Yeah. |
| 13:01:29 | GodEater | esp. if we get lucky like we did with the early ipods, and find that porting to later generations is fairly trivial |
| 13:01:38 | planetbeing | Well, at least you guys havent found any certs. |
| 13:01:44 | GodEater | i.e. a port to 2G is then easy to move to 3G and then 4G Nanos |
| 13:02:23 | planetbeing | That lessens the chance of codesigning. Even if there was stuff in the encrypted payload, that still means they dont sign the headers. |
| 13:03:22 | planetbeing | RSA is also computationally intensive if you dont have specialized hardware. |
| 13:03:39 | GodEater | I don't even have "my" 3G to play with at the moment. Mrs GodEater has it, and she's the other side of the planet to me at the moment. |
| 13:04:08 | planetbeing | I take it RC5 was used instead of AES? |
| 13:04:16 | planetbeing | in previous gens? |
| 13:04:36 | GodEater | I'm not sure I recall |
| 13:04:42 | GodEater | we nicked a lot of stuff from the ipodlinux guys |
| 13:04:57 | * | GodEater wonders if they've successfully resurrected their website yet |
| 13:05:07 | scorche | yes |
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| 13:05:25 | planetbeing | i think they have a few ideas themselves. |
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| 13:05:37 | planetbeing | apparently no equipment to execute it? |
| 13:06:01 | GodEater | allegedly not - they came up with that plan a long time ago |
| 13:06:05 | GodEater | and it never went anywhere |
| 13:06:12 | scorche | for various definitions of "ideas"...we have talked a bit about different methods, but not going anywhere stongly |
| 13:06:14 | GodEater | I think the "linux4nano" project got a *bit* further |
| 13:06:36 | planetbeing | what do you mean by "further"? |
| 13:06:43 | scorche | the last idea we were talking about involved delayering a chip and reading the ROM from a SEM, so.... |
| 13:06:47 | GodEater | they managed to get a dump of code off the hardware |
| 13:06:55 | planetbeing | scorche: hahaha |
| 13:07:06 | planetbeing | Really? CODE? |
| 13:07:27 | GodEater | planetbeing: http://home.gna.org/linux4nano/ |
| 13:07:40 | GodEater | that was back in May though |
| 13:07:47 | GodEater | I've not heard any more since then |
| 13:08:25 | GodEater | does anywhere here have a copy of that dump? I don't think I do... |
| 13:08:28 | planetbeing | oh, the flash dump |
| 13:08:37 | planetbeing | apparently it was mostly encrypted? |
| 13:09:00 | planetbeing | with one apparently cleartext jump. |
| 13:09:26 | GodEater | that might well be it :) |
| 13:09:28 | planetbeing | though if they got that, they can just write their own code into te cleartext section. |
| 13:09:50 | planetbeing | since its a standard flash chip, thats easy |
| 13:10:22 | * | GodEater has to run off to a meeting :( |
| 13:10:28 | planetbeing | no need to muck with trying to read ROM. o.O |
| 13:11:01 | planetbeing | ah. have fun |
| 13:13:27 | planetbeing | i'll be around. i can be found on irc.osx86.hu in #xpwn, if you guys need a hand reversing something. Other than that, I don't think there's sufficient similarities between s5l8900 and whatever soc they use in the latter gens to actually KNOW anything useful. ;) |
| 13:16:57 | n1s | kugel: FS #9662 is a duplicate of FS #9551, could you add your findings in a comment there instead? |
| 13:18:11 | mud-rb | :w |
| 13:18:19 | mud-rb | sorry... |
| 13:19:31 | kugel | n1s: it's not a duplicate |
| 13:20:11 | kugel | it's about that the stop button goes up one dir, instead of stopping/additional to stopping |
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| 13:20:46 | n1s | its' about stop behaving inconsistently on a single player, and the older one is about play and stop behaving inconsistently on all players, why is it not a duplicate? |
| 13:21:17 | | Quit AndyI (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 13:21:41 | kugel | because here the stop goes up one dir. that's a simply a bug, not inconsistent |
| 13:22:05 | kugel | also, Llorean told me to file a bug report, as he wanted to have a look at it |
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| 13:23:36 | kugel | the stop button should already be "global" on the e200, so it doesn't need to be globalized, but the bugs need to be fixed |
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| 13:52:16 | kugel | lucent: I've been using the 1.01.15 OF version for my disassembly |
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| 14:16:05 | TomKazimiers | Hi there, I am here to ask for wiki write permissions - Currently I am playing around with using a compact flash card with my iriver H300 and would like to add another working card to the wiki :) |
| 14:17:20 | Zagor | TomKazimiers: you're added now |
| 14:18:56 | TomKazimiers | thank you very much :) |
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| 16:19:33 | kugel | moos: hey, how's your e200v2? |
| 16:20:09 | moos | Hi kugel: didn't find the time to try yet. Hopefully today... |
| 16:21:23 | kugel | moos: I've put another patch up, which you might try (when you found the time that is) http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9663 |
| 16:21:43 | moos | Sure I will thanks, and of course let you know |
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| 16:23:21 | stRR | does anyone know if RB works on e280? |
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| 16:28:20 | advcomp2019 | stRR, what version.. if you have v1, yes |
| 16:28:47 | kugel | stRR: the website knows... |
| 16:29:32 | stRR | advcomp2019: well, i don't know for sure. it's just says e280 on the backside |
| 16:30:09 | advcomp2019 | stRR, look at the firmware version then |
| 16:30:11 | | Quit obo_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:31:01 | stRR | advcomp2019: where can i find it? |
| 16:31:39 | stRR | well 01.02.18E |
| 16:31:56 | B4gder | congratulations, rockbox works on your device! |
| 16:32:05 | advcomp2019 | the wiki and/or the manual should tell you and looks like it can be |
| 16:32:44 | Zagor | isn't "make install" supposed to install .rockbox/fonts/08-Rockfont.fnt too? |
| 16:33:54 | Zagor | and what's wrong when SDL_OpenAudio() fails without giving any error? |
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| 16:35:57 | pixelma | it should install fonts that are used in any of the included themes |
| 16:36:48 | Zagor | I get 10 themes but no fonts |
| 16:37:45 | pixelma | Rockfont is used in cabbiev2 for Archos (and other displays with 64 pixels LCD height I think) |
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| 16:42:17 | wpyh | GodEater: I don't understand what you mean by me "putting words in other people's mouths". |
| 16:43:07 | B4gder | I can do the branching right now |
| 16:43:10 | B4gder | fine? |
| 16:43:57 | * | gevaerts has no objections |
| 16:44:09 | Llorean | Sounds good. |
| 16:44:11 | moos | No more defaults seeting changes? |
| 16:45:57 | Llorean | No sense delaying the branch for something like that, at least. |
| 16:46:14 | B4gder | svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/branches/v3_1 |
| 16:46:21 | moos | is the final release date fixed? |
| 16:46:55 | gevaerts | moos: some people like 26 december, as in "Rock-Boxing Day" |
| 16:47:09 | B4gder | "svn co svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/branches/v3_1 rockbox-3.1" |
| 16:47:21 | * | B4gder is too lazy to write something in a wiki page |
| 16:47:31 | moos | gevaerts: ok :) |
| 16:48:11 | moos | le's hope that will attract people "massively" again |
| 16:48:39 | moos | let's even |
| 16:48:58 | kugel | B4gder: so freeze is over? |
| 16:49:19 | B4gder | freeze is officially over, but of course we still prefer bug fixes - in both branches! |
| 16:49:27 | kugel | of course |
| 16:49:34 | Zagor | I see nobody changed "backlight_timeout_plugged" as was mentioned yesterday :) |
| 16:50:00 | Zagor | do we have any serious known bugs? |
| 16:50:39 | kugel | when is the release scheduled? I guess 23rd isn't actual anymore? |
| 16:50:56 | kugel | though I think releasing before christmas would actually be nice |
| 16:51:19 | | Quit Horscht ("I got raided by the FBI and all i got is this lousy quit message") |
| 16:51:48 | Zagor | I don't think 23rd is ruled out. we didn't delay the branch for a reason, just laziness |
| 16:51:58 | kugel | ah nice |
| 16:52:15 | moos | 16:46 gevaerts moos: some people like 26 december, as in "Rock-Boxing Day" |
| 16:52:16 | Llorean | Zagor: Well, we delayed the branch for a reason. |
| 16:52:21 | B4gder | I'll check out a 3.1 branch and make a set of binaries |
| 16:52:23 | Zagor | Llorean: we did? |
| 16:52:30 | B4gder | "release candidates" |
| 16:52:33 | Llorean | Zagor: The freeze was delayed a couple days due to the DDoS |
| 16:52:41 | Llorean | To keep the freeze length the same the branch was delayed. |
| 16:53:02 | Llorean | Or at least, I *thought* we delayed the branch because the freeze started late. |
| 16:53:06 | kugel | but we could still release in 5 days, don't we? |
| 16:53:12 | Llorean | Probably, yes. |
| 16:53:31 | kugel | Llorean: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9662 |
| 16:53:35 | B4gder | I don't forsee a whole lot of frantic fixing in the 3.1 branch |
| 16:53:51 | Llorean | kugel: I have the Flyspray RSS subscribed, so I saw. |
| 16:54:07 | kugel | ok, but you may not have noticed that I added a fix |
| 16:54:39 | Zagor | do we have an SDL guru? |
| 16:54:51 | kugel | but I'm not sure if the fix should be committed, there's some quirks with the time&date screen |
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| 16:55:30 | kugel | Llorean: I could fix those too. Is resolving that desired for 3.1? I'd think so |
| 16:55:54 | Llorean | kugel: I think it should wait until after 3.1 |
| 16:56:04 | Llorean | The current keymap "works". It's a little unexpected apparently, but at least it functions. |
| 16:56:18 | kugel | yea, that's true too |
| 16:56:25 | Llorean | Better to play it safe with keymaps, and fix it for 3.2 where there's time in case any new unexpected behaviour shows up |
| 16:57:15 | kugel | ok, that gives us at least the possiblity to do it right, as there might be other changes involved to the keymap |
| 16:57:23 | Llorean | Indeed |
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| 17:00 |
| 17:01:48 | * | B4gder builds 3.1RC binaries |
| 17:02:52 | Llorean | I was considering asking if we were doing those. |
| 17:03:51 | B4gder | http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox-3.1RC/ |
| 17:03:59 | B4gder | "under construction" ;-) |
| 17:04:48 | stsquad | Is there a paramter I can pass to make to see the actual CC invocation used? |
| 17:05:10 | B4gder | I'm not sure if Zagor broke it, but it used to be make V=1 |
| 17:05:10 | Zagor | stsquad: V=1 |
| 17:05:16 | B4gder | ah |
| 17:05:39 | wpyh | I noticed that some bmp files inside wps/cabbiev2 have the executable bit set. Is this intentional? |
| 17:05:42 | stsquad | that works, thanks |
| 17:05:49 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 17:06:04 | LambdaCalculus37 | wpyh: Which files? |
| 17:06:25 | wpyh | the files ending with -128x64x1.bmp |
| 17:10:27 | pixelma | current wpsbuild.pl is able to distinguish different remote WPS based on the size of the main screen (e.g. there is iCatcher.128x64x1.160x128x2.wps (in use for the H100) and iCatcher.128x64x1.220x76x16.wps for the H300). I tried using this system with cabbiev2 to have different WPS for Iriver remotes and the Cli |
| 17:10:38 | * | stsquad realises why he can't use normal libc for simulator debug fprintfs |
| 17:11:53 | stsquad | whats the quickest way to do quick and dirty prints to stdio for debugging? |
| 17:13:04 | mud-rb | stsquad: DEBUGF should be what you're looking for. (normal printf formatting works in it too) |
| 17:14:55 | pixelma | so I had three files - the two cabbiev2.128x64x1.mainscreenresolution.wps and the simple cabbiev2.128x64x1.wps ... and while the latter existed only this one was packaged (also in H300/H100 builds) and the ohers were ignored. Could this matching be somehow done differently? |
| 17:17:58 | stsquad | mud-rb: Did you see my mail? DEBUGF seems to be multiply defined in many places |
| 17:20:45 | mud-rb | stsquad: ah, i see it. i'm not too sure about all of that, i just do plugins. |
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| 17:21:46 | stsquad | nps - went for the obvious debug.h :-) |
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| 17:24:55 | | Quit neddy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:26:13 | stsquad | So how am I meant to pass paramters to menu item strings that contain %s's? |
| 17:26:27 | stsquad | "Save playlist as %s?" |
| 17:32:25 | B4gder | the 3.1RC builds are now completely built |
| 17:40:35 | | Quit Horscht ("http://www.geisterfahrer.org") |
| 17:48:48 | | Part B4gder |
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| 17:49:12 | wpyh | LambdaCalculus37: do you see the files I mentioned as having the executable bit set? |
| 17:50:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | wpyh: I did. I can't change them right now, though. |
| 17:51:04 | wpyh | ok. |
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| 18:40:19 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 18:41:07 | elinenbe | looks like I will need to upgrade my iPod and Toshiba in a couple of months! |
| 18:41:08 | elinenbe | http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/12-17-2008/0004943967&EDATE= |
| 18:43:41 | | Join Jaykay [0] (n=chatzill@p579E73ED.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:44:17 | rasher | Hm, why don't we display a splash when trying to load a broken wps? |
| 18:45:21 | rasher | Also, did the WPS syntax change since Rockbox 3.0? |
| 18:46:01 | Llorean | Nothing incompatible. |
| 18:46:14 | Llorean | We have new tags, but 3.0 WPSes should be 100% compatible as far as I know. |
| 18:46:23 | pixelma | there were some additions (%mv and the settings thing...) but as Llorean says |
| 18:47:12 | * | rasher discovers %mv |
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| 18:47:31 | rasher | That might be nice to use to get a giant volume meter when changing |
| 18:48:17 | rasher | * Make %t stricter by aborting if a value is not given. |
| 18:48:23 | pixelma | wanted to suggest using it in cabbiev2 (not for a "meter" but changing to numerical display while adjusting, like the plain statisbar does) |
| 18:48:25 | rasher | Might this not break some WPSes? |
| 18:48:31 | pixelma | status too |
| 18:49:57 | | Quit Xerion (" ") |
| 18:50:17 | pixelma | hmm... it could. Wasn't aware of that %t change. I'm not even sure if some shipped WPSs used it without parameter, has that been checked? |
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| 18:51:02 | * | rasher fires up grep |
| 18:51:39 | rasher | grep "%t[^0-9]" wps/*wps yields nothing |
| 18:52:31 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:52:37 | * | pixelma is not fluent in regexp |
| 18:53:03 | rasher | Means "%t followed by anything other than a number" |
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| 18:54:44 | pixelma | aha, thanks for the explanation. So it looks ok |
| 18:55:14 | rasher | Seems so. For the shipped WPSs anyway |
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| 19:00 |
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| 19:10:30 | rasher | amiconn: does drawmode not effect bitmaps on colour targets? |
| 19:12:36 | amiconn | Drawmode affects mono bitmaps, but not native bitmaps, on all targets |
| 19:12:57 | amiconn | On targets where this is contradictory (i.e. mono targets) all bitmaps are currently affected |
| 19:13:15 | * | rasher wonders why draw_album_art even bothers setting the drawmode before drawing, then |
| 19:13:35 | amiconn | Because someone didn't read GraphicsAPI ? |
| 19:14:06 | * | amiconn wonders whether 3.1 will have the dreaded shuffled playlist resume bug fixed |
| 19:15:01 | * | rasher was hoping inverting the albumart would be as simple as setting the drawmode |
| 19:15:06 | | Join aneqrs [0] (n=andreas@c83-253-104-206.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 19:15:17 | amiconn | Inverting? |
| 19:15:30 | rasher | As in inverting the colours (negative) |
| 19:15:33 | amiconn | Like photographic negative? |
| 19:15:48 | rasher | Yeah, when the screen mode is set to negative, to get the "real" album art displayed |
| 19:16:15 | amiconn | Which colour target has screen inversion? |
| 19:16:25 | rasher | The e200 does at least |
| 19:16:37 | * | amiconn thinks that's a strange feature for a colour target, and should be removed |
| 19:17:03 | amiconn | Imo it only makes sense on mono targets, where it's not possible to set bg/fg colours |
| 19:17:10 | rasher | Why? It's perfectly useful - if you have a light theme you like, but want dark. I rather like cabbiev2 inverted. |
| 19:17:22 | rasher | Doesn't work for all themes of course |
| 19:17:40 | rasher | Just that albumart comes out looking weird |
| 19:17:51 | amiconn | But it is possible, requiring 2 steps: (1) Draw the albumart bitmap as usual. (2) Set DRMODE_COMPLEMENT, and draw a filled rectangle across the whole bitmap |
| 19:18:08 | rasher | ooh, neat |
| 19:18:38 | amiconn | Keep in mind that filling something with DRMODE_COMPLEMENT is significantly slower than filling with a solid colour or the background |
| 19:19:08 | elinenbe | are there any patches or plans to read album art from id3 tags? (including jpg art?) |
| 19:19:18 | amiconn | Solid colour uses memset16(), background uses memcpy(). DRMODE_COMPLEMENT xor's each pixel with all-1-bits |
| 19:19:33 | rasher | amiconn: Yeah, figures |
| 19:19:52 | rasher | ooh, that indeed works beautifully |
| 19:21:06 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:21:25 | n1s | amiconn: is " the dreaded shuffled playlist resume bug" in FS? |
| 19:31:01 | | Quit stoffel_ ("leaving") |
| 19:31:37 | rasher | amiconn: Most targets in fact seem to define HAVE_LCD_INVERT |
| 19:32:03 | kugel | uhm |
| 19:32:09 | | Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 19:32:12 | kugel | bug: an empty .wps isn't empty |
| 19:32:57 | rasher | Workaround: a text with nothing but "%wd" or "%we" in it |
| 19:33:51 | pixelma | kugel: why bug? |
| 19:33:52 | | Quit japc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:34:26 | kugel | pixelma: if I load a wps containing nothing I want nothing :) |
| 19:34:47 | rasher | What does it contain? |
| 19:35:10 | pixelma | turning off the statusbar globally also helps and that's why %wd and %we exist in case someone wants something different in menu and WPS |
| 19:35:24 | kugel | the old rockbox default one, that one with peakmeters |
| 19:37:49 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepel@p579EC91E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:40:40 | kugel | just a little tease: runtime with cabbiev2: 18:03, runtime with showing the main menu:19:51 |
| 19:40:43 | | Join t0mas [0] (n=tomas@rockbox/developer/t0mas) |
| 19:41:43 | kugel | which is 11% more runtime |
| 19:43:09 | pixelma | ok, so completely empty wps are rejected. Just played around a bit, adding a newline already helps. I don't think I would have expected this but in a normal use case no-one would have a completely empty WPS |
| 19:43:47 | kugel | that's a major showstopper imho |
| 19:43:49 | kugel | ;) |
| 19:44:01 | ameyer | wow.. 11% |
| 19:44:08 | ameyer | that's quite a hit |
| 19:45:35 | kugel | indeed |
| 19:46:07 | kugel | and that's only cabbiev2, expect more complex wpses to be even more significant |
| 19:47:03 | ameyer | what about the old default wps? |
| 19:47:22 | ameyer | I mean, more or less complex than cabbiev2 |
| 19:47:30 | kugel | there will be a test with a complete empty wps, let's see what that yields |
| 19:47:42 | rasher | The old default uses peakmeters - that's probably even worse |
| 19:47:54 | kugel | credits go to Jaykay btw for doing the benches |
| 19:47:57 | ameyer | is there a copy of the default wps somewhere? |
| 19:48:12 | kugel | ameyer: in your wps folder |
| 19:48:20 | ameyer | just a placeholder |
| 19:48:26 | lucent | kugel: I tested FS #9663 on 8gb Fuze, it behaves as you state in the task (need to have SD activity or press buttons when booting). |
| 19:48:47 | kugel | weird isn't it? |
| 19:49:01 | kugel | but it's better than what's in svn for sure |
| 19:49:32 | lucent | sure |
| 19:49:55 | lucent | I played a whole FLAC encoded album last night when I went to sleep, it was nice and I didn't notice any error |
| 19:49:56 | ameyer | literally, just has comments saying something along the lines of "this is a dummy file that allows rockbox to reset to the default wps" |
| 19:50:15 | kugel | ameyer: and that doesn't work? |
| 19:50:44 | lucent | kugel: I did find a bug, can you tell me why this is? When backlight is off, and I press a button, the backlight turns on but the screen does not update until an additional button press |
| 19:51:07 | lucent | kugel: so it appears as if I haven't pressed a button, but it's just that the screen has not updated |
| 19:51:25 | rasher | It's a bit odd that rockbox_default doesn't show the default (cabbiev2) |
| 19:52:09 | pixelma | rockbox_default is rockbox_builtin |
| 19:52:20 | Llorean | It should probably be renamed. |
| 19:52:32 | Llorean | ameyer: I believe the actual text of that .wps is on the Archos WPS gallery. |
| 19:52:43 | kugel | lucent: works for me, can you give me a reproduce recipe? |
| 19:52:48 | pixelma | ameyer: there used to be a copy in the Archos WpsGallery and it must be somewhere in the code |
| 19:52:55 | * | pixelma too slow |
| 19:54:16 | lucent | kugel: on my player, 1 ) turn on player 2) wait for backlight to turn off 3) press "down" button with your simplified keymap patch 4) observe display 5) press "down" and observe menu selection jumping twice down |
| 19:54:27 | ameyer | eh, probably should just DIY anyway |
| 19:55:50 | lucent | kugel: i.e. first press of "down" and the display still shows selected Files menu item, second button press and it jumps down to Resume Playback |
| 19:56:06 | lucent | kugel: but I'm pretty sure it's not jumping, it's just screen update lagging behind |
| 19:56:37 | kugel | lucent: oh yea. it's not the display though |
| 19:56:51 | kugel | try in wps, it works there |
| 19:57:17 | lucent | oh okay, I have to find out what wps is, hang on |
| 19:57:27 | kugel | while playling scren |
| 19:59:27 | lucent | kugel: confirming what you say, |>Settings>Theme Settings>Browse Themes>cabbiev2 *select* |
| 19:59:30 | lucent | right? |
| 19:59:58 | kugel | lucent: yes. wps refers to the screen you are led to when you play music |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:22 | kugel | that one is completely configurable using .wps files |
| 20:00:25 | lucent | oh okay I'm talking only about the Rockbox menu |
| 20:00:49 | kugel | I noticed. but the wps updates properly, so it's not the display |
| 20:01:18 | lucent | hm. So it is not the display code, that is what you say? |
| 20:01:30 | lucent | why might this be happening on the main rockbox menu? |
| 20:01:45 | kugel | can someone try to reproduce that on a supported target? |
| 20:01:51 | lucent | good idea |
| 20:02:05 | kugel | I fail to on my e200, but that might be due to the scrollwheel which always works a bit differently |
| 20:02:38 | PaulJam | lucent: maybe i misunderstand your problem, but could it be that you have the "first keiypress enables backlight only" setting enabled? |
| 20:03:51 | PaulJam | ah, forget what i said. |
| 20:04:01 | lucent | PaulJam: the trouble is, the screen is not updated but the button does activate its action |
| 20:04:04 | lucent | :) |
| 20:04:29 | kugel | ha |
| 20:04:46 | kugel | happens on e200 too (I just used my reduced keymap) |
| 20:05:11 | lucent | maybe a bug in rockbox code elsewhere, maybe a bug in reduced keymap |
| 20:05:13 | kugel | PaulJam: yes he does. it's the default setting so he might not know about it |
| 20:05:23 | kugel | lucent: unlikely |
| 20:05:29 | kugel | that it's the keymap i mean |
| 20:05:38 | lucent | PaulJam: however, setting "first keypress enables backlight only" to YES is a good workaround :) |
| 20:06:56 | kugel | PaulJam: can you try to reproduce? |
| 20:07:50 | kugel | PaulJam: or is that even known already? you seem to have heard about it |
| 20:08:04 | kugel | oops /me missread |
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| 20:14:21 | Aurix_Lexico | how many bits is a int in ARM? |
| 20:15:51 | lucent | 32 I thought, if ARM is a 32-bit processor |
| 20:16:22 | kugel | a word is 4bytes |
| 20:16:30 | kugel | afaik |
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| 20:18:44 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf () |
| 20:18:56 | | Quit tyfoo2 ("Carpe diem") |
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| 20:21:15 | saratoga | I like all this talk of experimenting with new GUI stuff |
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| 20:26:41 | PaulJam | kugel: sorry, i was on the phone. i just tried on my h300 with default settings, and i can not reproduce it here. |
| 20:27:48 | | Join Richlv [0] (n=rich@81.94.235.186) |
| 20:28:11 | kugel | PaulJam: weird. I can't really believe that it's due to my keymap file |
| 20:29:07 | | Quit enginerd3 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 20:29:26 | PaulJam | lucent: did you use the default settings? |
| 20:29:47 | Llorean | kugel: Do you leave the scrollwheel stuff defined? Is it possibly an artifact of using keys possibly with scrollwheel list acceleration? |
| 20:30:04 | lucent | PaulJam: yes, default settings |
| 20:31:07 | kugel | Llorean: I removed everything with scrollwheel from the keymap, and #if 0'd the HAVE_SCROLLWHEEL and two acceleration defines (else it didn't work anyway) |
| 20:31:35 | lucent | I don't know how to write the code for it, but a test for the screen being at fault or not is to enter some code which draws to the screen anytime the backlight is turned on |
| 20:31:46 | Llorean | kugel: Well, any apps-level problem (which it'd more or less have to be if it'd show up cross-target) would show up in the sim. |
| 20:31:52 | Llorean | So you could do testing for it yourself, too. |
| 20:32:20 | pixelma | button action conflicts are quite easy to get, especially if you use less buttons ("unprotected" release and repeat events for short and long keypresses etc.) |
| 20:32:25 | Richlv | which company from the list at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuyersGuide is considered to be the most opensource friendly lately ? |
| 20:32:46 | n1s | none of them? |
| 20:32:52 | lucent | none of them, I'd say |
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| 20:33:06 | Richlv | damn |
| 20:33:15 | Richlv | is there such a manufacturer at all ? :) |
| 20:33:16 | Llorean | In terms of "toward Rockbox", at least Sandisk donated a couple pieces of hardware, once, long ago. |
| 20:33:19 | lucent | SanDisk has been developer friendly, as "someone" sent RockBox team a cabbage patch of players to hack on |
| 20:33:30 | lucent | but no specs |
| 20:33:36 | kugel | Llorean: well, not in this case I suppose, the sim has no backlight |
| 20:33:36 | Llorean | lucent: They haven't really been developer friendly. More like "publicity friendly" if anything. |
| 20:33:45 | Llorean | kugel: The sim simulates a backlight... |
| 20:33:54 | lucent | Richlv: Neuros is opensource friendly, but I don't know about Rockbox targets made by them |
| 20:33:59 | kugel | it does? |
| 20:34:10 | Llorean | kugel: The background changes color for it, at least on the mono targets. |
| 20:34:13 | Llorean | I don't know what it does on color ones. |
| 20:34:21 | Llorean | lucent: There are no Neuros Rockbox targets. |
| 20:34:37 | Llorean | lucent: The list of supported targets is short, and on the front page of the site. |
| 20:34:39 | pixelma | Llorean: the output "backlight on or off" was removed from the default output... but should still be there I think |
| 20:34:46 | Richlv | argh, neuros isn't available here |
| 20:35:00 | kugel | Llorean: I have not noticed such a behavior on a e200 sim. But yea you're right, I seem to remember seeing that on the h300 sim on the remote |
| 20:35:58 | Richlv | i see apacer, nash, canyon, easy, aurum, trekstor, emtec, creative, acme |
| 20:36:06 | pixelma | kugel: there should be a "backlight on" and "backlight off" somewhere you could enable as debug output to the console |
| 20:36:15 | kugel | will try, thanks |
| 20:36:22 | Llorean | Richlv: The only Rockbox targets are the ones listed on the front page of the site. |
| 20:37:19 | Llorean | Richlv: There's other players being worked on, which you can read about in the forum or wiki, but there's no guarantee any of those will ever work fully, or when. |
| 20:37:50 | Richlv | Llorean, i see. does any of the companies i listed seems more opensource friendly than others ? |
| 20:38:00 | lucent | kugel: brief question about OF disassembly, did you label the buttonlight routine or is there debug info in the OF? |
| 20:38:02 | Llorean | Richlv: That question really has nothing to do with Rockbox. |
| 20:38:13 | Llorean | Richlv: Please, if you have discussion that's not about Rockbox, take it to our off-topic channel |
| 20:38:36 | | Quit enginerd3 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 20:39:42 | kugel | pixelma: I cannot find a debug output (only debugaudio and debugwps) |
| 20:40:17 | kugel | but there's backlight, I notice when I change the "first button press only turns backlight on" to yes |
| 20:40:24 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:43:27 | | Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) |
| 20:44:17 | kugel | domonoky: ping |
| 20:46:25 | moos | sure |
| 20:46:39 | kugel | sure? |
| 20:46:40 | moos | wrong windows :) |
| 20:47:23 | domonoky | kugel: pong |
| 20:47:42 | * | gevaerts spots lots of rbutil people |
| 20:47:54 | | Join Xerion [0] (i=xerion@82-170-197-160.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 20:47:59 | kugel | domonoky: there's an issue with your button patch I heard |
| 20:48:15 | kugel | probably due to disabling irqs |
| 20:48:21 | bluebrother | hmm, adding flyspray ids to fixed issues in the RockboxUtility changelog looks like a good idea. |
| 20:48:34 | gevaerts | I've been wondering for a while if it wouldn't be better if rbutil installed the latest release on full install insteal of the current build |
| 20:48:38 | domonoky | kugel: what issue ? and i thought disabling interrupts was not needed ? |
| 20:48:47 | bluebrother | Bagder: is it possible that twiki automagically links FS #1234 text to the tracker? |
| 20:48:54 | kugel | domonoky: but your patch still does, as you haven't updated it |
| 20:49:24 | domonoky | kugel: yes, i didnt find time todo anything for ams-sansas last days. |
| 20:49:31 | kugel | domonoky: apparently, if you hold the down button the lcd inverts |
| 20:50:19 | kugel | good to know that it works just fine without disabling irq (even better given that issue) |
| 20:50:45 | Ctcp | Ping from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts |
| 20:53:20 | kugel | domonoky: have you seen my backlight fading & buttonlight patch already? |
| 20:54:13 | bluebrother | gevaerts: might be a good move if we have releases regularly. |
| 20:54:16 | * | n1s agrees with gevaerts |
| 20:54:55 | bluebrother | otoh, I'm also wondering if it would make sense to replace the "are you sure" dialog with a selection like "release, current, abort" dialog |
| 20:56:15 | gevaerts | I noticed a few times that people think they have 3.0, which may or may not be true. Anything that makes this more clear is fine by me |
| 20:56:17 | lucent | bluebrother: replace "are you sure?" with "Which release?" |
| 20:56:44 | | Quit balou (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 20:56:44 | NSplit | niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
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| 20:56:54 | domonoky | kugel: no. will take a look, when i find time. maybe this weekend. |
| 20:56:56 | | Quit stsquad (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:57:30 | bluebrother | gevaerts: even after the note was added for 3.0? |
| 20:57:38 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 20:57:52 | gevaerts | bluebrother: good question. I don't remember... |
| 20:58:28 | gevaerts | Anyway I think that we want new users to do the full install, and I think new users are better off with the release |
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| 20:59:24 | pixelma | kugel: revert http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=12628 and you'll "see" |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:19 | NHeal | niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 21:00:19 | NJoin | blippe [0] (n=none_of_@213.136.34.23) |
| 21:00:19 | NJoin | BlakeJohnson86 [0] (n=bjohnson@c-24-118-162-123.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 21:00:19 | NJoin | balou [0] (i=balou@cl-1844.ham-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 21:00:19 | NJoin | liiwi [0] (i=liiwi@idle.fi) |
| 21:00:19 | NJoin | maraz [0] (i=maraz@xob.kapsi.fi) |
| 21:00:19 | NJoin | lostlogic [50] (n=lostlogi@rockbox/developer/lostlogic) |
| 21:00:44 | kugel | pixelma: ah, thanks. no wonder I didn't know about backlight |
| 21:04:38 | kugel | Llorean: so, I cannot reproduce that problem in a e200 sim using my reduced keymap |
| 21:09:32 | bluebrother | gevaerts: something like this: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/snapshot3.png ? |
| 21:11:08 | kugel | bluebrother: I think rbutil should always install a release, unless you checked "download developement builds" somewhere in the settings |
| 21:12:06 | gevaerts | bluebrother: I'd change the wording a bit, maybe "to install the most recent *development* build" |
| 21:12:48 | lucent | I *hate* Yes/No prompts |
| 21:13:00 | lucent | they are confusing for everyone |
| 21:13:13 | bluebrother | well, if automated installation installs the latest release then the manual install should use the most recent build |
| 21:13:16 | lucent | much prefer to have verbs which say what you're doing ;) |
| 21:13:41 | gevaerts | OK/Cancel would work just as well for this one |
| 21:13:43 | Llorean | kugel: If it doesn't happen with the full keymap on targets, and it doesn't happen with the reduced one on sim, it's almost certainly somewhere in the drivers, right? |
| 21:14:02 | Llorean | And since it happens on v1, it may have something to do with the scrollwheel that you've somehow missed. |
| 21:14:35 | gevaerts | Also maybe expand "This will install Rockbox 3.0" a bit to (briefly) explain again what "small" means |
| 21:14:52 | bluebrother | good point. |
| 21:14:52 | | Quit nk ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 21:14:57 | * | gevaerts thinks about good wording for this |
| 21:15:23 | kugel | Llorean: that would mean the e200v1 driver is faulty too |
| 21:15:39 | | Join vertic39 [0] (i=bla@g224009102.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:15:56 | Llorean | kugel: It doesn't necessarily mean there's a fault anywhere. |
| 21:16:23 | Llorean | It could mean that somewhere there's a check if the e200 keymap is defined, rather than a check for having a scrollwheel, probably. |
| 21:16:40 | Llorean | Something that doesn't cause an error because it doesn't actually depend on a scrollwheel, just changes a behaviour when one's around. |
| 21:16:44 | * | pixelma wonders why Linus removed that line of code completely and not just commented out |
| 21:17:00 | pixelma | seems like it proofs useful for debugging |
| 21:17:43 | kugel | Llorean: hm, it happens on my fuze too though |
| 21:17:48 | pixelma | eh... proves |
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| 21:19:02 | Llorean | kugel: Does the fuze define the e200 pad, maybe? To make plugins work easier, perhaps? |
| 21:19:57 | bluebrother | gevaerts: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/snapshot4.png |
| 21:20:48 | gevaerts | bluebrother: s/ nstall/ install/ |
| 21:22:00 | bluebrother | fixed :) |
| 21:22:04 | | Quit BigBambi (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:22:28 | kugel | Llorean: no, SANSA_FUZE_PAD. plugins aren't build yet |
| 21:22:37 | bluebrother | now I just need to figure why automated installation doesn't work anymore for me. Seems the version check is a bit problematic |
| 21:23:33 | Llorean | kugel: Well then, I've no further guesses. But if it's not reproduceable in the sim or on other targets, it's not likely going to be in apps code, then. |
| 21:25:06 | kugel | yep |
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| 21:25:19 | gevaerts | bluebrother: I'm not entirely happy about the text yet. It seems a bit overloaded now (I know, my fault for suggesting more explanations...). Maybe an extra linebreak between the two paragraphs? |
| 21:26:03 | lucent | bluebrother: I disagree with the use of "OK" though. I suggest "Install" "Cancel" buttons |
| 21:26:50 | kugel | yea, I'm not liking the all the text too |
| 21:26:59 | kugel | I found it pretty self-explaining the way it was |
| 21:27:22 | | Quit fredddy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:27:50 | gevaerts | Maybe a compromise? Keep the "will only contain... to run Rockbox" and drop the "To get additional..." bit? |
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| 21:29:10 | kugel | just name those "basic installation", "fully featured installation", if the previous ones aren't self-explaining enough imho |
| 21:29:49 | Llorean | Or "Minimum install" to go with "Full Install"? |
| 21:29:56 | kugel | probably with a "find out more about installation types" link somewhere near |
| 21:30:33 | | Quit japc (Client Quit) |
| 21:30:54 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:31:45 | bluebrother | lucent: you have a point, though I won't change that immediately −− that dialog uses pre-defined buttons, and "Install" is none of them. Thus this change will need a bit more work than the switch from yes / no |
| 21:33:54 | | Quit vertic23 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:34:45 | lucent | bluebrother: it's not just your problem, I realize, it's the way Win32 API does things |
| 21:37:11 | bluebrother | win32 api? This is Qt4. |
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| 21:39:48 | * | bluebrother spots an error with bootloader install on mr100 |
| 21:40:04 | lucent | yeah, I think Trolltech had Win32 API on their brains when they did the message box API |
| 21:40:25 | kugel | or they just decided to keep it simple |
| 21:40:54 | kugel | it's not like you're not able to make other buttons |
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| 21:59:45 | Tangent1 | music files should be transferred right into the root directory of my rockboxed ipod, yes? Will the formatting get mixed up if I put them in /music/artist/filename.extension format to keep it tidy? |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:28 | Llorean | Tangent1: You can put them anywhere you like. |
| 22:00:48 | Llorean | Does one of our documents seem to suggest putting them in the root? |
| 22:00:56 | | Quit Jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]") |
| 22:01:22 | Tangent1 | the manual says that they should be in /music/artist/filename.extension format |
| 22:01:45 | Tangent1 | i wanted to be sure if the first slash meant root or just the folder you put the files in |
| 22:01:57 | Llorean | Tangent1: What part of the manual says that? |
| 22:02:18 | Llorean | By "the manual" you mean the PDF file? If so, could you direct me to the section? |
| 22:02:26 | Tangent1 | 3.1.4 in the pdf |
| 22:03:42 | Llorean | I don't see a mention of a 'music' folder there. |
| 22:03:50 | Tangent1 | that's why I came to ask |
| 22:04:11 | Tangent1 | to see if the leading slash meant to designate the root folder specifically |
| 22:04:16 | Llorean | No. |
| 22:04:20 | Tangent1 | okay, thank you much |
| 22:04:35 | gevaerts | Tangent1: for the WPS missing tag fallback it doesn't matter (i.e. it can be as deep as you like). For album art I have no idea |
| 22:05:25 | * | Llorean thinks that should probably be explained more clearly. |
| 22:05:28 | pixelma | reminds me that I wanted to commit the patch in http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9134 |
| 22:05:46 | Llorean | "When given a file, some parts of Rockbox assume the parent folder name is the Album name, and its parent folder will be the Artist name." |
| 22:06:15 | pixelma | some parts of Rockbox? |
| 22:06:30 | Llorean | The default WPS (and Album Art possibly or apparently?) |
| 22:06:56 | gevaerts | I'd still add the FS #9134 thing as well |
| 22:07:30 | Llorean | Yeah, note it's not required. |
| 22:07:36 | * | Llorean has no ability to fix it from here, right now. |
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| 22:08:47 | pixelma | it all depends on how the WPS is made - maybe cabbiev2 does... album art also looks one level up (only for cover.bmp I believe but not sure. have to look it up on the AlbumArt wiki page) |
| 22:09:23 | | Quit _lifeless (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 22:09:41 | | Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@90.151.223.50) |
| 22:10:04 | ameyer | is there some technical reason why bookmarking is really screwy for AAC? Like, set a bookmark 1:00 in and it'll resume more like 1:15 in |
| 22:10:47 | pixelma | ah, albumtitle.bmp also works one level up (at least wiki says so) |
| 22:10:59 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 22:11:27 | ameyer | (CFmodded iPod mini running r19441-081214 here) |
| 22:11:37 | ameyer | erm, mini2g |
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| 22:12:53 | BigBambi | ameyer: Wouldn't it be resuming in general, not just bookmarking? |
| 22:13:16 | ameyer | and starting playback is laggy |
| 22:13:17 | BigBambi | i.e. if you stop to clear the buffer then resume, does it do it? |
| 22:13:29 | ameyer | BigBambi: good question |
| 22:14:00 | ameyer | yup |
| 22:14:02 | BigBambi | A further question would then be how well and accurately does AAC seek? |
| 22:14:41 | | Quit GodEater_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:14:49 | ameyer | ok, stopping at 13:45. |
| 22:14:55 | vertic39 | bam I just read that the 5.5 ipod video has -50% battery life than the original firmware :/ that's not good - why is it like that? |
| 22:14:58 | Llorean | BigBambi: I think the accuracy depends on the file length. |
| 22:15:02 | ameyer | resumed at 14:00 |
| 22:15:18 | Llorean | vertic39: It was like that a _long_ time ago. It shouldn't be any more. |
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| 22:15:27 | | Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]") |
| 22:15:32 | ameyer | stopped at 14:10, resumed at 14:25 |
| 22:15:34 | BigBambi | Llorean: Yes, I thought I remembered there was something slightly off with it |
| 22:15:39 | * | ameyer senses a pattern |
| 22:16:10 | BigBambi | vertic39: Read where? |
| 22:16:48 | ameyer | seeking seems ok |
| 22:18:57 | * | ameyer wonders if this is just something screwy about the way this file is encoded |
| 22:19:55 | pixelma | Llorean: if someone helps making these sentences more clear, I could commit it (lacking ideas how to put it in clear enough way but so that it doesn't sound too much like a "must") |
| 22:21:35 | | Quit bmbl ("Woah!") |
| 22:22:12 | saratoga | the AAC file parser scales numbers by a factor of 10 instead of a power of 2 |
| 22:22:16 | pixelma | and btw. this seems to be the only place album art is currently mentioned in the manual, at least a search for "album art" in a c200.pdf didn't turn up something else... :\ |
| 22:22:31 | saratoga | which seems wasteful given that divides are a bit slower then shifts on most targets . . . |
| 22:23:58 | | Quit t0mas ("Leaving") |
| 22:24:04 | saratoga | actually i guess it amkes no difference here |
| 22:24:12 | Llorean | pixelma: Maybe something like http://pastebin.ca/1288793 |
| 22:24:37 | | Join Hillshum [0] (n=chatzill@75-165-241-153.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:24:43 | ameyer | saratoga: could thaat explain resume being off by like 15 seconds? |
| 22:24:58 | ameyer | and parsing .m4a files seems really, really slow |
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| 22:29:47 | saratoga | ameyer: no |
| 22:30:03 | bluebrother | hmm. Am I the only one that feels the "Time and Date" menu misplaced below System? Wouldn't it be better below Settings? |
| 22:31:15 | bertrik | I think it used to be under system settings |
| 22:31:38 | | Part Tangent1 |
| 22:32:38 | | Quit BigBambi (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:32:56 | gevaerts | I think it can be argued that time is not a setting |
| 22:33:16 | * | Hillshum can see it either way |
| 22:33:50 | gevaerts | i.e. you don't really have a choice when setting it, in contrast to all other settables |
| 22:34:12 | | Quit kachna (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:35:07 | amiconn | bluebrother: You're not the only ony... |
| 22:35:54 | * | gevaerts would expect loud screams if the settings got changed without the user asking for that. Time is slightly different in that respect |
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| 22:36:55 | kugel | rasher: may I ask you why the translations of the yesno screen contain the button? |
| 22:37:30 | kugel | has there been desire to have the buttons translated? |
| 22:37:37 | bertrik | I didn't really see the point when moving the date/time to the system menu |
| 22:38:58 | bluebrother | we now have a setting below the System menu. That's kinda weird (and I dislike that "Rockbox Info" isn't the topmost entry anymore) |
| 22:39:58 | pixelma | Llorean: thanks, I like it. Maybe it could be a tad bit simpler if you have an idea how to do that without losing information. If not I'm going to commit your version (also make the mentioned AlbumArt wiki page a link) |
| 22:40:02 | kugel | time isn't a real setting imho. It's not in the cfg |
| 22:40:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:40:32 | kugel | the sleep timer wasn't in the settings before either but under system, and no-one argued about that |
| 22:41:09 | pixelma | kugel: some lang files also translate the button name. I think that if it is common in that language to do so, why not |
| 22:41:18 | Llorean | pixelma: I personally don't think it could be simpler without reintroducing confusion. |
| 22:42:00 | bluebrother | the sleep timer wasn't placed well below System either |
| 22:42:01 | pixelma | most likely |
| 22:42:07 | kugel | pixelma: I haven't looked at all langs, but the ones where I looked at didn't translate the button. But if translating buttons is ok, then I take my question back |
| 22:42:17 | bluebrother | plus, the time _is_ a setting. |
| 22:42:52 | | Quit moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:43:39 | Hillshum | why does my VM seem to be taking longer to compile than Cygwin? |
| 22:43:47 | bluebrother | by that means it is even a persistent setting that doesn't need to be saved in a cfg. It only advances automatically :) |
| 22:44:31 | kugel | well, it changes without one doing anything (as in he's not changing a setting) |
| 22:44:50 | kugel | it cannot be compared to settings which are in the settings menu imo |
| 22:45:02 | bertrik | it can IMO |
| 22:45:53 | bluebrother | why can't it be compared? You are _setting_ it, thus it's a setting. |
| 22:46:33 | kugel | you set it once, and then it changes from alone. A setting is something you set and it never changes again after until you re-set it |
| 22:46:48 | | Quit karashata ("G'bye everyone!") |
| 22:47:02 | bluebrother | who says that a setting cannot change by itself? |
| 22:47:23 | bluebrother | the point is that you are _setting_ it. Not that it can't be changed otherwise. |
| 22:47:31 | * | pixelma notices that it's probably needed to check out the release branch too for those manual fixes to be in the release too... |
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| 22:47:40 | | Quit BigBambi (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:47:41 | kugel | and I didn't deny that it's a setting |
| 22:48:20 | kugel | I say it's a setting which is differnet from the ones in the settings menu, and thus it's arguable if it has to be in there |
| 22:48:44 | bluebrother | may I quote you from 2 minutes ago? |
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| 22:49:06 | kugel | i said it's not a "real" setting, yes |
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| 22:50:52 | bluebrother | by saying a setting never changes from outside you argue that time is not a setting. Now you tell that you didn't deny it's a setting. That's the opposite. |
| 22:52:08 | kugel | uhm yea, get picky. Anyway, I've stated my opinion |
| 22:52:16 | bertrik | IMO, the person who moves a setting away from the settings menu has something to explain to other people, not the other way around |
| 22:52:34 | kugel | it was announced on the -dev ml, you had a chance to object the placement before it was committed |
| 22:52:44 | bluebrother | you stated your two contradictory opinions. Yes. |
| 22:53:02 | kugel | bertrik: I think he did |
| 22:53:50 | bluebrother | so what? Is it now forbidden to ask for reasoning about changes that have been made? Do I need to accept everything just because it was done some time back? |
| 22:53:58 | * | gevaerts thinks that selecting a playlist can be seen as setting the current playing track ;) |
| 22:54:21 | amiconn | Yeah, and it changes itself ;) |
| 22:54:35 | bluebrother | gevaerts: move it to the System menu! |
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| 22:58:15 | bertrik | I can't find the discussion about the time screen on the -dev ml |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:18 | pixelma | "patch discussion - FS #9173" I believe |
| 23:03:29 | bluebrother | yep, dated Nov 25 |
| 23:03:46 | bluebrother | I even stated my opinion that it should go below the settings menu ... |
| 23:03:47 | bertrik | hmm, I missed that, the title could have been a lot clearer |
| 23:04:12 | * | bluebrother agrees with bertrik |
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| 23:20:08 | Zagor | yay, clip mp3 works flawlessly |
| 23:20:12 | Zagor | in the sim... |
| 23:22:03 | Llorean | Zagor: As in, you've resolve the small-buffer issue? |
| 23:22:52 | Zagor | no. as in, I had a small hope of getting a crash in the sim too, but didn't. |
| 23:23:06 | Zagor | I'll give it a go with valgrind though |
| 23:23:49 | Llorean | Ah |
| 23:25:35 | | Quit Hillshum ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]") |
| 23:28:10 | kugel | Zagor: the "high mem" targets cannot play mp3 either |
| 23:29:11 | kugel | I suspect the clocks are set up wrong, so that we're just too slow for decoding (flac and wav play fine) |
| 23:29:30 | kugel | I have no idea why it crashes/reboots though instead of just skipping |
| 23:29:33 | pixelma | Llorean: have a small problem with the sentence... I think it's better to have a second one that does not mention album art for targets without album art |
| 23:29:53 | kugel | Zagor: high mem as in e200v2/fuze with their 8MB |
| 23:29:58 | Llorean | pixelma: Ah, makes sense. |
| 23:30:04 | Zagor | kugel: if we were too slow, surely it would boost a lot more? |
| 23:30:10 | kugel | it boosts |
| 23:30:19 | pixelma | although I realise that it mentioned it before but just with one word |
| 23:30:21 | Zagor | yeah but only very briefly |
| 23:30:25 | kugel | but I haven't noticed that boosting doesn't do anything for decoding |
| 23:30:52 | kugel | I have forced 248MHz, and it behaves exactly the same |
| 23:30:57 | Zagor | if mp3 decoding was so slow it couldn't keep up, it would be boosting most of the time |
| 23:31:23 | Zagor | kugel: and yet you think it's clock related? |
| 23:31:24 | Llorean | pixelma: It should be possible to just drop mention of Album Art and the "and" before the second part of the sentence? |
| 23:31:25 | kugel | as far as I understood, clocking the main cpu high isn't enough for decoding, other clocks might need to boost too |
| 23:31:53 | Zagor | sounds far-fetched to me. but not impossible. |
| 23:32:08 | kugel | there's several controllers attached to the CGU unit |
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| 23:32:39 | bertrik | hmm, 31 MHz seems enough to play ogg without boosting, yet 248 MHz would not be enought for mp3? |
| 23:32:42 | kugel | Zagor: how do you else explain that flac/wav play fine, and forcing 248MHz don't help? |
| 23:33:03 | Zagor | kugel: codec bug? |
| 23:33:11 | kugel | bertrik: I suspect that 31 and 248 is equally fast for decoding |
| 23:33:24 | kugel | I don't think the codecs are bugged |
| 23:33:26 | ameyer | I haven't seen the clip actually play flac |
| 23:33:50 | amiconn | Well, since other targets are able to play mp3 at significantly lower cpu speed, I'd suspect a bug in the ams sansa pcm driver somewhere, which is triggered by the mpa codec |
| 23:33:57 | Zagor | I think performance problems would manifest in many other ways than crashing |
| 23:34:09 | kugel | amiconn: ogg doesn't play fine either |
| 23:34:12 | ameyer | I'm guessing slow/buggy SD driver, myself |
| 23:34:19 | kugel | just add crossfeed and it's mostly unplayable too |
| 23:34:32 | Zagor | ameyer: then wav would be the most buggy |
| 23:34:34 | kugel | ameyer: if it was the sd driver flac was worse than mp3 |
| 23:34:41 | BigBambi | ameyer: flac and wav would stress the SD much more than mp3/ogg |
| 23:34:42 | amiconn | ameyer: That would break high-bitrate stuff like wav, aiff, and lossless formats |
| 23:34:53 | ameyer | I can't get FLAC to play, period |
| 23:35:01 | kugel | I think he got it :) |
| 23:35:36 | ameyer | using the buffer audio data from flash patch, ogg seems ok-ish |
| 23:35:43 | amiconn | Isn't there a problem with the dma not being capable of transferring a whole pcm block at once? Maybe there's a bug in the chunk handling |
| 23:36:02 | ameyer | FLAC dies instantly with some sort of SD-related error message |
| 23:36:11 | kugel | bertrik: have you tried adding some dsp in ogg? with default settings ogg plays for me too, but as soon as I add dsp stuff, it's just about as bad as mp3 |
| 23:36:17 | amiconn | Afaik the various codecs output different sized pcm blocks |
| 23:36:52 | pixelma | Llorean: yes, just getting rid of all album art related things in that sentence works without any problems |
| 23:37:05 | amiconn | If you want to rule out sd driver problems, maybe try ramdisk? Hmm, probably requires working usb... |
| 23:37:20 | bertrik | amiconn, indeed I remember the DMA length to be quite small, so there is a mechanism to break up pcm transfers in multiple dma transfers |
| 23:37:26 | ameyer | to be more specific, *PANIC* (newline) SD : DATA TIMEOUT, |
| 23:37:55 | Zagor | we have a ramdisk implementation? |
| 23:38:03 | kugel | yep |
| 23:38:05 | bertrik | kugel, ogg still plays fine here at 31 MHz with crossfeed (using the flash_buffering patch) |
| 23:38:18 | kugel | really? |
| 23:38:19 | Llorean | Zagor: gevaerts developed it for USB testing. |
| 23:38:25 | Zagor | nice |
| 23:38:40 | kugel | bertrik: for me it sometimes play, but stops after 4-5 seconds mostly |
| 23:38:52 | kugel | btw: I have also tried aac, it doesn't work well too |
| 23:38:58 | * | amiconn would suggest working bottom-up, and not introducing to many potential problems at once |
| 23:39:11 | ameyer | I mostly agree with kugel about ogg with the buffering patch. I wouldn't exactly call it "fine", but it's close to stable |
| 23:39:35 | ameyer | FLAC and mp3, not so much |
| 23:39:39 | amiconn | I.e. try to stabilize sd first, using plain read/write torture. When it works, proceed to pcm etc |
| 23:40:12 | ameyer | I *think* the flash buffering sd driver's just too slow right now |
| 23:40:20 | amiconn | The flash buffering patch is something I'm very sceptical about |
| 23:40:32 | kugel | amiconn: as far as I see the sd driver works fine, I did various file operations without problems. Those panics only come upon playing audio. |
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| 23:40:41 | Zagor | amiconn: me too |
| 23:40:48 | bertrik | it produces lots of nasty compiler warnings in the current version |
| 23:40:51 | | Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:41:47 | ameyer | I agree with amiconn, fix the sd driver and buffering first |
| 23:42:04 | amiconn | kugel: Tried test_disk speed and write&verify tests, both boosted and unboosted? |
| 23:42:15 | kugel | no, not yet |
| 23:43:52 | kugel | but I'm skeptical that the sd driver is broken. I rather think dma (or clocks as I already said) are causing our problems |
| 23:45:42 | ameyer | I haven't seen a non-SD-related error message on the clip |
| 23:46:10 | Zagor | I have seen some plain data access panics |
| 23:46:31 | Zagor | hmm there is no way to make the sim exit by itself, is there? |
| 23:46:36 | ameyer | something vaguely related to the sd driver is screwy |
| 23:46:56 | bertrik | this is mostly speculation |
| 23:47:23 | ameyer | kugel: I'd call "doesn't work correctly for flash sizes > 2 GB" broken |
| 23:47:30 | ameyer | or is that fixed? |
| 23:48:17 | amiconn | Zagor: No, except on for Player and RecV1 sims, since the long-hold power button poweroff isn't simulated. Just close the window... |
| 23:48:30 | amiconn | s/on// |
| 23:48:39 | * | ameyer should really shut up since it's not like he can actually fix anything |
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| 23:49:54 | Zagor | valgrind found nothing :-( |
| 23:50:39 | amiconn | Is there any hope for a gdb stub for any of the newer targets? |
| 23:51:18 | Zagor | I was thinking about that earlier today. Someone should look into that... |
| 23:51:57 | * | amiconn didn't use it often on SH, but the few times he did, it was quite useful |
| 23:52:02 | Zagor | indeed |
| 23:52:28 | kugel | ameyer: that's not the SD drivers fault. That's SanDisk's fault to use some scary bank-switching system instead of just use SDHC for the internal memory |
| 23:53:54 | kugel | my microsdhc works just fine |
| 23:54:38 | kugel | amiconn, Zagor: what I also find weird is, that when I play music from my microsd, I still get the panics for "Internal memory" |
| 23:55:23 | amiconn | That's not weird at all |
| 23:55:53 | amiconn | Playback regularly updates the resume position, which means writing to the internal flash |
| 23:56:49 | amiconn | This is delayed to the next "spinup" with normal buffering, but the flash buffering hits the disk very frequently, so the resume position is also written frequently |
| 23:57:14 | kugel | I haven't applied flash buffering |
| 23:57:20 | kugel | if you mean the patch |
| 23:57:45 | amiconn | Okay, but you'll still have rather frequent rebuffering, due to the low mem size |
| 23:58:38 | kugel | but then again it works fine for flac which rebuffers fine regulary (and more often than mp3), which mp3s don't even start to play |
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