| 00:00:20 | amiconn | It is very possible that the sd driver works fine when unboosted, but causes error when boosted |
| 00:00:49 | amiconn | WAV needs virtually no cpu, hence no boosting. Flac needs a little more, but most likely still no boosting |
| 00:00:50 | kugel | yea could be |
| 00:01:03 | kugel | but it's boosting upon rebuffering |
| 00:01:07 | amiconn | Ogg is more demanding than flac, and mp3 in turn is more demanding than ogg (on arm) |
| 00:01:32 | amiconn | Using dsp adds to that, and it matches the observations... |
| 00:01:36 | ender` | mp3 needs more than vorbis? |
| 00:01:46 | kugel | on non-multicore yes |
| 00:01:47 | amiconn | Yes, on arm it does |
| 00:02:16 | ameyer | then why did the rio karma get more battery life from mp3 than from ogg? |
| 00:02:28 | * | ameyer wanders back on-topic |
| 00:02:29 | amiconn | What architecture does the karma use? |
| 00:02:30 | BigBambi | It depends on the decoder, the architecture, ... |
| 00:02:59 | amiconn | Besides, isn't the karma rather old? |
| 00:03:11 | BigBambi | They may have had an effecient mp3 decoder, inneficient ogg decoger, ... |
| 00:03:15 | kugel | amiconn: flac is also fine when forcing boost |
| 00:03:25 | ameyer | amiconn: I think it has a PP5003. Some sort of PortalPlayer dual-core ARM thingy |
| 00:03:31 | * | BigBambi can't type or spell :( |
| 00:03:55 | ameyer | and it depends on your definition of old. 2003. |
| 00:03:58 | amiconn | I was thinking more about which codecs were available at that time. |
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| 00:04:50 | amiconn | (1) When was Tremor released? and (2) Rockbox has optimised Tremor a lot... |
| 00:05:59 | mud-rb | is there some way i can get an idea (order of magnitude is probably close enough) of how much memory is available in the plugin_buffer for various targets? the sim seems to fake it and I only have one player |
| 00:06:37 | kugel | 512KB on anything higher than 2MB total ram |
| 00:06:51 | kugel | I think 8KB on <= 2MB |
| 00:06:56 | amiconn | 32KB |
| 00:07:06 | mud-rb | perfect, thanks |
| 00:07:08 | kugel | oh sorry, 32KB |
| 00:07:31 | | Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 00:07:36 | amiconn | That is, 32KB on the old Archoses. Not sure how big it is on the low-mem ams Sansas |
| 00:07:57 | mud-rb | maybe the sim isn't faking it too hard then, i just assumed there would be more variation |
| 00:08:07 | kugel | that's not finally decided I guess. It'll likely depend on what's going to happen with the flash buffer patch |
| 00:08:51 | kugel | mud-rb: given that we try to have the plugins running similar on all targets I see no reason for variation |
| 00:09:00 | amiconn | The sim tries be fairly correct, just that it gives you exactly that amount *in addition* the plugin binary (which is a shared object/dll in the sim) |
| 00:09:37 | amiconn | On target, this buffer is shared between the binary and what you can request |
| 00:10:08 | Zagor | kugel: I'd the flash buffer patch has nothing to do with that. |
| 00:10:12 | Zagor | I'd say |
| 00:10:37 | kugel | Zagor: why? I think it's a valuable option to free ram for plugins, isn't it? |
| 00:11:27 | amiconn | no |
| 00:11:28 | Zagor | no, because it breaks so many other things. we can simply reduce the buffer size on flash targets and gain the same effect without changing any code |
| 00:11:41 | amiconn | Plugins are always allowed to stop playback if they want |
| 00:11:52 | kugel | iirc the watermarks are a problem |
| 00:12:26 | amiconn | The watermarks are a problem on anything swcodec, just that problem doesn't hit as hard on bigmem targets |
| 00:13:32 | n1s | hmm, i wonder if that watermark bug is still possible ro trigger |
| 00:13:41 | kugel | I mean (I remember some talk) that due to the watermarks there needs to be at least 512KB or so audio buffer, which isn't really given on our 2MB ams sansas |
| 00:14:03 | kugel | and that the flash buffering doesn't have to mess with those |
| 00:14:15 | n1s | amiconn: btw, is that "dreaded shuffled playlist resume bug" you mentuioned earlier in FS? |
| 00:14:19 | Llorean | kugel: But we can set the watermark much, much lower, though. |
| 00:14:27 | Llorean | It's not like any of this is set in stone. |
| 00:14:32 | amiconn | (1) The anti-skip buffer setting is meant as an *additional* safeguard against skipping. It should be possible to set it to 0 without ill effects if the disk is in good shape and the player is sitting on top of the table, i.e. not shaking |
| 00:14:39 | Zagor | kugel: the proper solution is to fix the watermarks, not add code that avoids them |
| 00:14:50 | kugel | ok |
| 00:15:32 | amiconn | (2) Hwcodec calculates watermarks dynamically depending on bitrate and measured (!) spinup time (if available, otherwise uses a safe default). It does so for ages. Swcodec still doesn't afaik |
| 00:15:49 | amiconn | n1s: Not sure |
| 00:17:05 | n1s | the only one i can find that sounds remotely like it is FS #9531 |
| 00:18:30 | n1s | amiconn: i think swcodec does adjust the watermark based on bitrate but it isn't working 100%, I remember being able to cause it to underrun before managing to spin up using flac |
| 00:18:54 | * | Zagor found http://sourceforge.net/projects/gdbstubs |
| 00:19:08 | n1s | this bug is FS #6479 |
| 00:20:22 | n1s | i really should retest that |
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| 00:27:32 | Zagor | http://sourceware.org/rda/ might also be interesting for Mr Someone writing a gdb stub |
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| 00:31:55 | n1s | just out of curiosity, how would you hook it up to a computer? can it be done over USB? |
| 00:32:25 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:37:28 | Zagor | n1s: I think so, yes. as long as the loaded images don't touch usb. |
| 00:38:09 | n1s | ah, then it sounds like a pretty nice thing indeed :) |
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| 00:43:37 | | Join Tangent1 [0] (n=asher@c-98-219-162-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 00:43:58 | Tangent1 | i think there's an error in the ipod video rockbox manual |
| 00:44:31 | Tangent1 | the commands for select + menu and Menu are reversed for the cube app in 11.2.3 |
| 00:47:43 | | Quit _Auron_ ("Infinity repeatedly denies rumours of plotting with zero to bring down the Universe.") |
| 00:50:06 | lucent | heh, postage is cheaper than I thought to send international |
| 00:50:26 | lucent | I sent a Sansa Clip to kugel and the postage was less than $3usd |
| 00:50:40 | lucent | it is a really tiny thing though |
| 00:50:58 | lucent | I was worried it'd cost 10 bucks or something |
| 00:51:16 | Llorean | lucent: This is the sort of thing that belongs in -community. |
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| 01:00 |
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| 01:04:37 | MarcGuay | Tangent1: You can report a bug here in flyspray if you like. |
| 01:05:13 | MarcGuay | Missing link: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/ |
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| 01:15:09 | | Quit Schmogel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 01:16:58 | MarcGuay | kugel: Is this comment on the VMWareDev wiki page "The image should be prepared for everything with rockbox. This includes having the 7zip (debian package p7zip) preinstalled, since the Rockbox sourcecode is in a 7z archive." a suggestion or...? |
| 01:18:06 | pixelma | did someone else already move fixes over that should be in the release branch too? Maybe the updated translations, rasher? |
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| 01:24:54 | pixelma | hmm... those were before the branch |
| 01:25:31 | pixelma | or not... |
| 01:26:20 | n1s | pixelma: they were commited to both branch and trunk in rev 19471 and 19472 |
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| 01:27:48 | pixelma | ah thanks, it was already dropped off the "most recent" list on the frontpage |
| 01:28:15 | n1s | i think the frontpage only displays commits to trunk |
| 01:28:43 | pixelma | yeah, but you can follow the gaps in the revision numbers |
| 01:29:02 | pixelma | as an indicator |
| 01:29:10 | n1s | yes |
| 01:29:45 | kugel | MarcGuay: yes |
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| 01:30:51 | kugel | Unhelpful: what do you think about my latest pf comment? |
| 01:31:38 | Unhelpful | about zoom? i'm probably leaving it alone for now, unless somebody wants to work out how to rebuild cache on-the-fly |
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| 01:32:06 | kugel | I don't |
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| 01:32:29 | kugel | zoom is sufficient imho if the album art is preresized to lcdheight/2 |
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| 01:33:31 | Unhelpful | i'd prefer to never touch the zoom, if it's going to keep working by moving the camera. the result is equivalent to NN scaling, and is not pretty. |
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| 01:35:31 | Unhelpful | pixelma: c200 is landscape, right? what's wrong with the tracklist there, is it just about space, or is there something else? |
| 01:35:44 | | Part Tangent1 |
| 01:35:51 | kugel | Unhelpful: keymap issue |
| 01:35:55 | | Quit aneqrs () |
| 01:36:05 | Unhelpful | ohhh.. that i don't know if i want to touch |
| 01:36:33 | * | n1s would guess you don't :) |
| 01:37:42 | kugel | Unhelpful: you might want to checkout FS #8335 how I "implemented" a working resizing in pf, you'll maybe have a better overview |
| 01:37:55 | n1s | IMHO, unless someone steps forward and wants to work on getting PLA working, we should drop it and go back to regular keymaps were it's used currently |
| 01:38:33 | kugel | pla is working |
| 01:38:38 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:38:39 | pixelma | yep, "down" is also used as "menu" so you can't move down because you call the menu instead. And since it's using pluginlib actions it's not easy to find a fix - without either breaking other targets or breaking other plugins that use this system or invent exceptions (which the PLA system wanted to avoid) |
| 01:39:01 | Unhelpful | kugel: i've got that part working just fine, though... what i'm doing now is to get rid of the preferred sizes stuff entirely, in favor of scaling to LCD_HEIGHT/2 on load, and letting the user use zoom if they don't like that |
| 01:39:04 | n1s | kugel: for various degrees of "working" ? :) |
| 01:39:26 | kugel | but the variety of targets make it difficult to have a "all-in-one" keymap of course |
| 01:39:39 | Unhelpful | ...now i *know* i don't want to be in this |
| 01:39:42 | pixelma | kugel: not practically and not when combining contexts as so many (almost all) do |
| 01:39:53 | kugel | n1s: name me an issue with pla except pf? I don't know of any other |
| 01:40:02 | pixelma | metronome |
| 01:40:18 | n1s | yeah, afaik metronome isn't usable at all on c200 |
| 01:40:33 | pixelma | and Ondio and Player |
| 01:40:34 | kugel | c200 seems to be a special breaker for pla :) |
| 01:40:39 | n1s | also bubbles had some issues but i think they finally got fixed |
| 01:40:55 | pixelma | bubbles has stupid exceptions - that being the first plugin which used it |
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| 01:41:45 | kugel | you basically can only use it for demos as of now, and not even for all |
| 01:41:52 | n1s | I think using the core actions where they fit and defining your own keymaps where they don't would be sensible |
| 01:42:37 | pixelma | the breaker IMO is combining contexts which will always cause "overlapping" for some buttons for one or the other targets |
| 01:42:45 | n1s | (not sure if plugins can use core actions currently though) |
| 01:43:07 | kugel | text editor does |
| 01:43:47 | | Quit n1s () |
| 01:44:05 | kugel | maybe pla should be reworked to export core actions which are available on all targets |
| 01:44:28 | kugel | instead of defining dozens of contexts intefering each other |
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| 01:47:37 | kugel | fdinel: hey |
| 01:48:14 | Unhelpful | kugel: or maybe only one "active" context at a time? |
| 01:48:40 | | Part toffe82_ |
| 01:53:11 | kugel | Unhelpful: in the current pla each context contains very few actions |
| 01:53:15 | MarcGuay | pixelma: 19476 is pretty wordy for something rather insignificant. I'm tempted to suggest we swing back the other way and take it out completely but maybe that's not great, either. I think it was Chronon who put it in? |
| 01:53:41 | fdinel | kugel: hi, I'll be back later, I gotta go ;) |
| 01:55:18 | kugel | lol |
| 01:56:16 | kugel | pixelma: wasn't the consensus to move wiki text into the manual (and delete the wiki pages after) instead of the manual linking to wiki pages? Sorry if I'm wrong |
| 01:57:07 | pixelma | kugel: feel free to write the album art paragraph as there is none currently... ;) |
| 01:57:42 | pixelma | MarcGuay: it was the result of a discussion earlier here when someone asked about it again (could be that i's already in yesterday's log). Explanation by Llorean, I'm too sleepy for discussing that now |
| 01:57:56 | MarcGuay | pixelma: I understand. |
| 01:58:00 | pixelma | not sure who first put it in |
| 01:58:15 | kugel | No, I don't want to get the manual people jobless ;) |
| 01:58:27 | MarcGuay | Wordiness is part of the RB tradition, it won't be out-of-step with the rest of the project. |
| 01:58:53 | kugel | also it sounds like a rather messy job to me, as the albumart wiki page is already kinda messy imho |
| 01:59:15 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:59:33 | * | kugel doesn't want to admit that he's latex newb |
| 01:59:57 | pixelma | also, I think there are some things that should stay in the wiki (not sure that's a good example but different encoding tools for mpeg come to my mind currenty - that would make a looong paragraph in the manual and is ever changing) |
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| 02:03:26 | pixelma | *mpegplayer |
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| 02:30:11 | ameyer | hrm... |
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| 03:22:02 | Torne | i'm trying to create a new plugin, as a subdirectory like some of the others. I've added it to SUBDIRS and copied one of the other makefiles with the names adjusted, and it only compiles my sources, it doesn't actually link the plugin |
| 03:22:23 | Torne | i'm wondering what i can possibly have done wrong. it adds itself to ROCKS in the makefile |
| 03:23:52 | Aurix_Lexico | did you place your plugin's name into CATEGORIES? |
| 03:24:06 | Torne | yes |
| 03:25:39 | Torne | here's my makefile: http://pastebin.com/d2bffa132 |
| 03:25:47 | | Quit lasser (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 03:25:55 | Torne | i presume it's getting included, because make all does actually compile the source files |
| 03:26:22 | Torne | but it doesn't produce the .elf or .rock and there are no messages about them in the make process :) |
| 03:37:33 | | Nick Bensawsome is now known as pacman (n=Bensawso@unaffiliated/bensawsome) |
| 03:37:48 | | Part pacman ("The awsome is gone :(") |
| 03:40:28 | | Quit vertic39 () |
| 03:40:49 | Torne | make -d believes it *has* made the file |
| 03:40:55 | Torne | but it did so by executing no commands |
| 03:42:34 | Torne | aha. plugins.make doesn't work if none of your sources have the same name as the plugin |
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| 04:00 |
| 04:09:37 | fdinel | Anyone interested in getting "live" results of the sansa c200v2 disassembly? :) |
| 04:10:52 | lucent | fdinel: lol, maybe? |
| 04:11:15 | lucent | fdinel: I want to learn / observe more about how arm disassembly is done |
| 04:11:58 | fdinel | well the LCD init routine is at 0x429C from what I can tell |
| 04:12:18 | fdinel | it uses DBOP as for the other ams targets |
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| 04:18:03 | lucent | fdinel: there's a big need to figure out the remaining GPIO pin usage on Fuze target at least |
| 04:18:20 | lucent | the scrollwheel, and "hold" "home" buttons |
| 04:18:30 | fdinel | yeah though it seems quite harder because of the wheel |
| 04:18:41 | fdinel | I'm kinda lost in there :/ |
| 04:18:43 | fdinel | brb |
| 04:20:57 | lucent | okay |
| 04:21:33 | lucent | fdinel: really there's some issue with accessing data from Flash above a certain sector, this is caused by an unknown factor |
| 04:21:45 | lucent | it may be that we don't select the chip or something else |
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| 04:28:35 | saratoga | is FS9662 really a bug? i assumed the sansa was supposed to work like that |
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| 04:29:54 | lucent | saratoga: how do you mean? the behavior just seems inconsistent unless there is activity on the SD |
| 04:30:32 | lucent | oh my mistake |
| 04:30:38 | lucent | saratoga: I looked at the wrong bug |
| 04:31:11 | lucent | saratoga: I don't have a comment on bug 9662 |
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| 04:37:09 | webguest55 | hi all im a total newbie to rockbox,and i wonder what the rockbox is and used for. |
| 04:37:29 | scorche | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WhyRockbox |
| 04:38:35 | webguest55 | scorche:thanx. |
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| 04:43:55 | webguest55 | wow Rockbox really rocks! |
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| 04:46:49 | fdinel | lucent: with the fuze, how are buttons read? |
| 04:46:59 | fdinel | I thought we needed to use DBOP for that... |
| 04:49:33 | saratoga | DBOP is mostly for writing, it has only limited ability to read pins, and cannot use interrupts, so its not so good for buttons |
| 04:50:07 | lucent | fdinel: some of the buttons seem to have direct GPIO |
| 04:50:11 | saratoga | we thought it might be used for the wheel, just because we couldn't find it on the GPIO, but that seems somewhat unlikely since theres no obvious way to get interrupts out of it and you'd probably need interrupts to read the wheel |
| 04:50:23 | lucent | up/down/left/right/select work with direct GPIO |
| 04:51:20 | fdinel | hmm |
| 04:51:42 | fdinel | that strange I didn't manage to see those in the OF :/ probably lookking at the wrong place |
| 04:54:26 | lucent | fdinel: what command do you like to use to disassemble the OF? |
| 04:54:39 | lucent | are you cutting out the arm code first or working with the OF bin? |
| 04:54:44 | webguest55 | Does iPod Classic support Rockbox? |
| 04:56:13 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:56:36 | * | ameyer facepalms and says "assuming you're talking about the 6th gen ipod, no" |
| 04:57:38 | ameyer | if you're applying the new-ish term "iPod Classic" to an older iPod that wasn't called that when it came out (1st-5.5th gen), yes |
| 04:58:29 | scorche | webguest55: the devices rockbox supports are on the front page.. |
| 04:58:59 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:59:16 | webguest55 | i find model classic is not listed |
| 04:59:40 | Unhelpful | exactly. |
| 05:00 |
| 05:00:08 | saratoga | actually it is listed, mostly because people kept asking |
| 05:00:17 | | Part toffe82 |
| 05:01:05 | saratoga | we didn't used to list it though |
| 05:02:07 | Unhelpful | "Apple: 1st through 5.5th generation iPod, iPod Mini and 1st generation iPod Nano (not the Shuffle, 2nd/3rd/4th gen Nano, Classic or Touch) " seems pretty explicit, webguest55 |
| 05:02:24 | webguest55 | i insist that some models be missing |
| 05:03:10 | Unhelpful | well, it's pretty clear about the Classic |
| 05:03:17 | saratoga | perhaps it is you who is missing something |
| 05:03:22 | saratoga | how ironic |
| 05:04:34 | lucent | webguest55: talking about these "missing" models is not going to make them supported any more than not being listed and not being supported ;) |
| 05:06:02 | webguest55 | yup,maybe it is my fault |
| 05:06:44 | saratoga | yes we know |
| 05:06:53 | scorche | webguest55: the list shows what DOES work...anything missing doesnt work...this is the entire point of the chart |
| 05:08:58 | lucent | webguest55: also we don't have any particular model to suggest that runs rockbox because none of the supported targets are in production |
| 05:12:18 | webguest55 | they are all very old and outta stock for a long time |
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| 05:13:59 | saratoga | you're a little late to the party |
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| 05:24:36 | fdinel | for the logs: ReadHold on the c200v2 is located at 0x3FD4 |
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| 05:39:53 | ameyer | webguest55: you can get supported players on the aftermarket or the SansaV2 players are going to be supported some time in the near future |
| 05:40:14 | ameyer | perhaps for questionable values of "near future" |
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| 06:00 |
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| 06:00:50 | fdinel | ameyer: I'm pretty confident it'll be "not so far" :P |
| 06:01:10 | fdinel | anyway, see ya peeps. |
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| 06:02:00 | lucent | neat |
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| 06:17:50 | TouchOdeath | I am wanting to access the hidden files/firmware in my insignia sport player in hopes of being able to modify them, whats the best way to approach this? |
| 06:20:20 | wpyh | TouchOdeath: please talk about it on other channels. This is for Rockbox only. |
| 06:23:36 | lucent | TouchOdeath: um, there was a forum post about something similar |
| 06:23:58 | lucent | TouchOdeath: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=13961.msg119167#msg119167 |
| 06:24:20 | lucent | TouchOdeath: anyways it's kind of off-topic since rockbox should read these files as I mention them, no problem |
| 06:24:51 | TouchOdeath | ty very much lucent, you the man |
| 06:25:34 | Unhelpful | should i get some opinions/consensus on my current scaler work before committing? i consider everything before the hq-for-greyscale part to be fairly trivial... but that last chunk is not so trivial |
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| 08:33:33 | Martyn | What is the least-capable Rockbox device? |
| 08:33:54 | Martyn | Absolute simplest, smallest image .. lowest number of buttons, etc... |
| 08:34:04 | lucent | if I had to guess? Sansa Clip |
| 08:34:06 | lucent | no |
| 08:34:12 | lucent | that's actually pretty badass for what it is |
| 08:34:18 | Zagor | archos player |
| 08:34:24 | scorche | lucent: clip is not a rockbox device... |
| 08:34:45 | Martyn | Okay, I need to buy one and have it as a reference platform. One of the old Archos 20's? |
| 08:35:04 | scorche | Martyn: reference for what? |
| 08:35:12 | Zagor | Martyn: the least capable is the player, which actually has a charcell display (not bitmap) |
| 08:35:36 | scorche | lucent: as i have said before, please do not reference the a |
| 08:35:40 | Martyn | scorche : Reference platform for UI development. |
| 08:36:04 | Zagor | for bitmap targets, I'd say the archos ondio is a good choice. b/w lores screen and limited set of buttons. |
| 08:36:06 | scorche | AMS devices until they are on the front page unless you are referring to development stuffs |
| 08:37:12 | Zagor | on the other hand, I've been spotted saying I think the archos targets are due for abandonment |
| 08:37:15 | lucent | scorche: got a better suggestion than the Clip? tell Martyn |
| 08:37:30 | lucent | I'm willing to learn |
| 08:37:41 | Martyn | Well, as long as they are supported for the moment, it makes a good target for "keeping things simple" |
| 08:38:08 | Martyn | And I can get an ondio for less than $20 from Wierd Stuff |
| 08:38:12 | * | JdGordon chants "kill off the charcell targets" |
| 08:38:13 | lucent | Martyn: also if you're looking to purchase, what's your budget? Maybe I could help find a deal on something |
| 08:38:44 | Martyn | lucent : I'm in the San Francisco / Bay Area .. cheap gadget central |
| 08:38:46 | scorche | lucent: the point of this is that the clip is STILL not a supported target, so suggesting it blah blah.. |
| 08:39:12 | JdGordon | doesnt the c200 have a button limitation also? |
| 08:39:14 | Martyn | Okay. I like the Ondio .. looks GOOD and simple. |
| 08:39:19 | Zagor | JdGordon: there's actually only one charcell target. I'm more in the "kill of the hwcodec targets" camp |
| 08:39:38 | Zagor | off even |
| 08:39:43 | Martyn | I'm hoping to have the Flash mockups finished by next week, and get some feedback on the look and feel |
| 08:39:47 | JdGordon | killing hwcodec would be nice, would let us get rid of the button bar also |
| 08:39:58 | Martyn | If the mockups are in the realm of 'acceptable', I'll code up a framework. |
| 08:40:14 | Zagor | Martyn: I'm looking forward to it. Prepare for long discussions. :-) |
| 08:40:19 | Martyn | *nod* |
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| 08:40:53 | Martyn | Wow .. the ondio is also -very- limited in other ways. Firmware size... |
| 08:41:03 | Zagor | yeah |
| 08:41:20 | ameyer | I'm not a huge fan of abandoning anything, to be honest? |
| 08:41:39 | Martyn | Learn from Python .. at some point it's worthwhile to deprecate |
| 08:41:48 | Martyn | Java didn't, and they are paying for it in bloat. |
| 08:41:53 | ameyer | why not abandon greyscale targets so you can ditch all the grayscale cruft |
| 08:42:08 | JdGordon | lots more greyscale targets than hwcodec |
| 08:42:36 | JdGordon | also its not about the display, its about the compeltly different audio mechanism (and the display for the charcell) |
| 08:43:00 | lucent | pardon my not knowing, what is "charcell" mean in rockbox context? |
| 08:43:05 | ameyer | yeah, and probably many more grayscale targets still in use |
| 08:43:15 | | Quit GodEater_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 08:43:16 | Martyn | lucent : Non bitmap display |
| 08:43:21 | lucent | oh |
| 08:43:32 | Martyn | lucent : Literally, a display with two lines of characters (or more) 20-40 characters wide (sometimes) |
| 08:43:44 | ameyer | I mean, if the archoses got ditched, I can't see a fork. If you ditch grayscale, I can see a fork happening. |
| 08:43:47 | lucent | that's scary |
| 08:43:49 | Martyn | so it can only display certain characters, which can sometimes (but not always) be programmed on the fly. |
| 08:44:03 | ameyer | does anyone still use the archoses? |
| 08:44:12 | Zagor | ameyer: I do, in the car |
| 08:44:15 | Martyn | Easy way to tell −− check the downloads :) |
| 08:44:34 | Martyn | I'd be interested in seeing those statistics, actually ... #downloads of different platforms during an update |
| 08:44:47 | Martyn | Gives a good indication what platforms to concentrate on |
| 08:44:57 | JdGordon | not really... |
| 08:45:14 | JdGordon | the general feeling here is we work on what we want, not by how many downloads we get |
| 08:45:29 | JdGordon | especially because the download stats are so rediculously inacurate |
| 08:45:38 | lucent | Martyn: so, Clip display is a tiny monochrome OLED display, maybe 128x64 pixels, but that's not charcell? |
| 08:45:48 | ameyer | are the archoses the only sh target? |
| 08:45:50 | Zagor | lucent: no, that's bitmap |
| 08:45:54 | lucent | ah |
| 08:45:58 | lucent | thanks for clearing that up |
| 08:46:06 | ameyer | (I assume sh == Super H) |
| 08:46:19 | JdGordon | ameyer: yes |
| 08:46:30 | Martyn | JdGordon : Heh, since I come from a corp programming background (deadlines, etc) I'm used to things being the other way around. |
| 08:47:10 | Zagor | Martyn: refreshing, eh? :) |
| 08:47:22 | Martyn | Well, yes and no. |
| 08:47:32 | Martyn | Some of the principles of structured programming -are- good. |
| 08:47:37 | Martyn | Even in an open source / open dev project. |
| 08:47:38 | | Quit lucent ("bbl") |
| 08:48:05 | JdGordon | lucent: http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/index-std.html are charcell displays |
| 08:48:17 | ameyer | when was the last supported archos target discontinued? |
| 08:48:23 | Martyn | e.g. I'll pick something to work on, get some consensus, and then actually still work the way I always have. Plan it out, architect it, look at the potential impact on other codepaths, then code. |
| 08:48:33 | Zagor | well, most rockbox devs do programming for a living too |
| 08:48:55 | Zagor | ameyer: we have never discontinued a target |
| 08:48:58 | JdGordon | Martyn: what is this "plan it out" you speak off? |
| 08:49:03 | Martyn | JdGordon : I have one of Crystalfontz wonderful USB bitmap displays. Good LORD I love those things. |
| 08:49:17 | * | JdGordon got 3 of them for free a few years ago :) |
| 08:49:23 | Martyn | JdGordon : Heh... when working with OOP .. I even do *gasp* UML diagrams |
| 08:49:28 | ameyer | Zagor: I mean discontinued by archos |
| 08:49:32 | JdGordon | :O |
| 08:49:48 | Zagor | ameyer: ah. that was quite a few years ago... |
| 08:50:03 | Martyn | Oh, I love being a Geek sometimes. |
| 08:50:04 | ameyer | afaict, 2003? |
| 08:50:26 | Martyn | My housemate -has- an Archos Ondio ... awesome. |
| 08:50:34 | * | Zagor looks into the time machine |
| 08:50:39 | Martyn | We'll have to see if we can get it working. |
| 08:50:51 | ameyer | not sure about the Jukebox Recorder, FM Recorder, Recorder v2, or Ondios |
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| 08:51:26 | Zagor | gah, "access to http://www.archos.com has been blocked by the site owner via robots.txt." |
| 08:51:43 | ameyer | ah well, not important |
| 08:51:54 | Martyn | Wow, this thing is ... tweaky |
| 08:51:57 | amiconn | ameyer: The Ondios are the newest. Btw, the Ondios are in no way more restricted than the other archoses |
| 08:52:00 | Martyn | Reminds me of the old Jukebox |
| 08:52:17 | Zagor | amiconn: don't they have fewer buttons? |
| 08:52:17 | Martyn | The first 20G PMP |
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| 08:52:39 | Zagor | Martyn: yeah those are quite alike |
| 08:52:40 | JdGordon | amiconn: come on.. really? small screen, almost no storage, hwcodec... no buttons,.. |
| 08:52:50 | amiconn | Zagor: I mainly thought of size restrictions |
| 08:52:53 | Zagor | JdGordon: "than the other archoses" |
| 08:52:54 | ameyer | so, what are the odds of any swcodec targets getting ditched any time soon? |
| 08:53:05 | * | JdGordon really should read whole sentences |
| 08:53:16 | amiconn | Zagor: The Ondios have the same number of buttons as the Player |
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| 08:53:24 | JdGordon | ameyer: ziltch.... |
| 08:53:58 | Zagor | amiconn: right, I disqualified the player ince it has no bitmap. |
| 08:54:30 | Zagor | ameyer: why would we? |
| 08:54:32 | amiconn | JdGordon: The screen is the same size as the recorders. I already mentioned the buttons. And they are hwcodec the same way as the other archoses |
| 08:54:53 | amiconn | And an MMC slot is a useful thing (regarding storage) |
| 08:55:26 | scorche | amiconn: he didnt see the " than the other archoses" part and assume you were talking about for all targets |
| 08:57:02 | JdGordon | amiconn: yeah sorry, missed the last part of the senatcne |
| 08:58:15 | | Quit bertrik (Remote closed the connection) |
| 08:58:33 | ameyer | Zagor: you could ditch some grayscale cruf by ditching some of the targets, although I can't see rockbox ditching over half of its targets, some of which (iPods, h1x0) are fairly popular. |
| 09:00 |
| 09:00:08 | ameyer | I think forking off the hwcodec stuff and going into bugfix-only mode might not be the worst idea |
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| 09:00:37 | JdGordon | greyscale doesnt make things any more difficult than colour... a reason to kill off hwcodec is because the playback engine is entirly different, so its almost 2 codebases |
| 09:00:44 | JdGordon | same with charcell display |
| 09:00:59 | JdGordon | the only changes for greyscale is the low level lcd drivers |
| 09:01:09 | amiconn | Imo we shouldn't ditch any target unless (1) we want to introduce a fundamental technical change which requires it (imo very unlikely, and even then branching would be better) or (2) the target is abandoned (no active dev has one anymore, and it's unlikely that one will show up again) |
| 09:02:04 | * | JdGordon would have thought that any "killing off" would really be forking anyway |
| 09:02:04 | ameyer | JdGordon: aren't there libraries required for things like color->gray conversion? |
| 09:02:20 | ameyer | but that'd be minor, I'd think. |
| 09:02:36 | JdGordon | probably, but anything high up doesnt need to know about it |
| 09:02:43 | Zagor | amiconn: when I say "abandon" I really mean "branch" |
| 09:02:56 | JdGordon | "draw a blue circle" is going to be the same for both |
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| 09:03:54 | ameyer | and, for what it's worth, I don't think there's any feature rockbox doesn't have that I really want, other than perhaps better video support. |
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| 09:04:31 | Martyn | JdGordon : And frankly it's "Draw a circle" |
| 09:04:49 | n1s | I think an argument for branching is that hardly any of the new features added are useful on the archos targets so we could keep a branch around and backport fixes to it untill we reach amiconn's (2) |
| 09:04:58 | Martyn | JdGordon: Green, blue, blinking, all those things are attributes of circle. As long as the platform supports some kind of bitmap display ... |
| 09:05:22 | * | pixelma wonders when the last time was JdGordon had to take care of the hwcodec playback engine |
| 09:05:27 | Martyn | (god help me doing that on a char display ... imagine reprogramming the programmable chars to "draw" a circle. LOL) |
| 09:05:36 | JdGordon | yeah yeah... the blue was to show that there is no different |
| 09:06:07 | Zagor | Martyn: we do that already... |
| 09:06:11 | amiconn | n1s: I disagree |
| 09:06:18 | pixelma | n1s: but branching makes it so that someone has to do the backport |
| 09:06:28 | Unhelpful | well, if the number of cells is <= the number of programmable characters, you can "do" graphics... though there will probably be some lines through it. |
| 09:06:59 | ameyer | from what I can tell, the color->grayscale conversion probably could use some tweaking, though. |
| 09:07:29 | ameyer | it's a bit on the dark side and seems to have some sort of weird flickering-style issue |
| 09:07:45 | amiconn | Branching means additional effort to keep things up to date. Keeping the archoses means we have a greater variety of targets regarding memory, colour depth, display size etc which help keeping code universal |
| 09:08:52 | amiconn | Besides, there are new lowmem targets in the works, so dropping the archoses because of lowmem won't be an advantage, rather the opposite |
| 09:09:12 | Martyn | *cough* If I may interject... |
| 09:09:31 | scorche | Martyn: this is IRC...you wont be talking over anyone ;) |
| 09:09:35 | Martyn | lowmem targets are a question of not including certain amounts of code.. |
| 09:09:41 | Zagor | vector graphics on charcell display: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-player/rockbox-buildch10.html#x13-13600010.2.2 |
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| 09:10:33 | Martyn | Zagor : Heh, I did that on a watch for Fossil a couple years ago. Amazing what you can fit into a microcontroller + char display when you REALLY need to. |
| 09:10:42 | amiconn | Martyn: Not only. Lowmem means also thinking about how to implement a feature in a memory conserving way so that it can be included on lowmem targets |
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| 09:11:10 | n1s | amiconn: i think the things people would like to crop them for in the code is charcell, buttonbar and the hwcodec engine basically, which can all be seen working nicely now but constantly needing to be taken care of when changes are done in areas that affect them |
| 09:11:19 | n1s | s/crop/drop/ |
| 09:12:21 | Martyn | amiconn : Sure, but then it's usually easier to have #ifdef statements sitting in the code to branch the compilation one way for lowmem, and another for other targets. |
| 09:12:32 | Martyn | Since a lowmem target is likely going to trade speed for code size |
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| 09:12:57 | Zagor | amiconn: actually the only thing unique to archos is the hwcodec and very low resolution. neither of which is likely to return in new target. |
| 09:13:14 | Martyn | (reading the cube demo code now .. it's actually pretty code) |
| 09:13:28 | pixelma | how much more resolution is there on the Clip? |
| 09:13:45 | Martyn | is the clip the one with the tiny OLED display? |
| 09:13:47 | Unhelpful | ameyer: flickering? i don't see how color->greyscale can "flicker", the values are calculated once |
| 09:13:59 | n1s | Martyn: yes |
| 09:14:12 | pixelma | and the m200 |
| 09:14:21 | Zagor | pixelma: only a little more: 128x64 vs 112x64 |
| 09:14:24 | amiconn | Zagor: Huh? The clip has almost the same resolution... |
| 09:14:42 | pixelma | Zagor: really? ;) |
| 09:14:42 | Martyn | Unhelpful : Often 'greyscale' on an otherwise monochrome display is a question of the display controller changing the duty cycle on a pixel |
| 09:15:03 | Martyn | Unhelpful : The human eye then "sees" it as a greylevel, but it's actually 'flickering' |
| 09:15:04 | Zagor | amiconn: exactly, which means the archoses are in no way contributing "uniqueness" |
| 09:15:18 | amiconn | Zagor: Pixel aspect... |
| 09:15:32 | Unhelpful | Martyn: we have a library for doing that in plugins, for ~7-8bit "greyscale", but i don't know if any of the 2-bit greyscale targets are doing it in hardware |
| 09:15:34 | Zagor | amiconn: haha |
| 09:15:43 | Unhelpful | and if they are, it's not resolvable on our end, probably. |
| 09:16:01 | Unhelpful | also, i'm working on color->grey quality ;P |
| 09:16:04 | amiconn | And they're contributing a different cpu architecture |
| 09:16:18 | Martyn | Unhelpful : Very likely not. The Sharp 128x64 monochrome display only has 1 black and 4 'grey' levels |
| 09:16:43 | Martyn | Unhelpful : Which is good for text display (you can kind of antialias text on it) .. but horrid for just about anything else |
| 09:19:24 | ameyer | Unhelpful: it's not really "flicker" It's hard to accurately explain |
| 09:19:40 | pixelma | AFAIU the greyscale library is fully software even on greyscale targets which provide 4 levels of "grey" (including white and black) but those "native" greys are used for most things, except jpg viewer, mpegplayer (plugins that use the greylib) |
| 09:20:03 | Unhelpful | we're using bayer dithering to deal with reducing 256 levels -> 4 levels, in the "native" 2bit case |
| 09:20:09 | ameyer | it's kinda like what happens when you point a video camera at a CRT display, although there's more to it than that. |
| 09:20:23 | amiconn | Zagor: Oh, and I forgot another thing they contribute: a slow CPU, so they help in checking the efficiency of e.g. gui stuff |
| 09:20:33 | Zagor | anyone with a v1 sansa who feels like trying some builds? /me left my players at home |
| 09:20:44 | pixelma | ameyer: I guess you saw it on a Mini? |
| 09:20:49 | Martyn | Zagor: Sure. I've got one. |
| 09:20:59 | Martyn | Although it's the 250R |
| 09:21:06 | Zagor | amiconn: we can call it the "amiconn" branch ;-) |
| 09:21:08 | Martyn | But I've already got the bootloader working... |
| 09:21:10 | ameyer | pixelma: indeed |
| 09:21:47 | ameyer | pixelma: what's so special about the mini in this case? |
| 09:22:27 | Martyn | Zagor : Which build? |
| 09:22:30 | ameyer | (FWIW, the only grayscale targets I have are the mini and the clip. I won't be watching anything on the clip any time soon.) |
| 09:22:32 | amiconn | Martyn: On the mini it's indeed a bit flickery, for 2 reasons: The lcd is rather fast, and its "natural" gamma curve is bent the wrong way 'round, so that the greylib has to do quite a bit of correction |
| 09:22:50 | pixelma | well, it looks differently depending on the actual display, Mini is the worst I've seen |
| 09:23:01 | pixelma | ^ ameyer |
| 09:23:10 | Zagor | Martyn: a lowmem build, to see if that causes similar bugs as on clip. hang on a minute |
| 09:23:56 | Unhelpful | wait, we're having this "flickery" look only in greylib stuff? |
| 09:24:05 | amiconn | On iriver H1x0 it works best across all mono/grey targets I own: slow panel, and less gamma correction |
| 09:24:20 | | Quit martian67 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 09:24:53 | ameyer | the darkness issue might have to do with having to jack the mini's contrast way up to have a usable screen |
| 09:25:07 | ameyer | Unhelpful: jpegviewer and mpegplayer. |
| 09:25:31 | amiconn | mandelbrot too |
| 09:25:43 | ameyer | and plasma |
| 09:25:56 | ameyer | and I think the cube |
| 09:26:01 | Unhelpful | ameyer: i believe you're basically seeing greylib at work, then. |
| 09:26:04 | | Join martian67 [0] (i=lol3izer@about/linux/regular/martian67) |
| 09:26:45 | JdGordon | pixelma: (reply for a while ago) my motives for forking hwcodec is gui based.. i was just using the playback engine as an example of why they should be (gui based as in the buttonbar and the charcell) |
| 09:27:05 | JdGordon | and on that note, /me is off... have a good w/e all |
| 09:27:09 | | Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|afk (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 09:27:25 | pixelma | then... "good" example |
| 09:27:27 | | Join krazykit` [0] (n=kkit@69.219.233.220) |
| 09:28:30 | Zagor | Martyn: http://bjorn.haxx.se/testing/e200lowmem.zip |
| 09:29:00 | Martyn | downloading and installing |
| 09:29:13 | Martyn | What's the bug you're looking for? |
| 09:29:14 | ameyer | Unhelpful and/or pixelma: what exactly causes the flicker? Is the CPU too slow or something? |
| 09:29:40 | Zagor | Martyn: failure/crashing while playing mp3 |
| 09:30:04 | amiconn | ameyer: cube uses it on mono targets only, and native greys on 2bpp targets. fire also uses the greylib, as well as doom |
| 09:30:06 | ameyer | I still think buffering is screwy on the clip |
| 09:30:08 | Martyn | should it matter at all that this a Rhapsody model? |
| 09:30:12 | Martyn | (It's still a V1) |
| 09:30:15 | ameyer | ah yes, doom |
| 09:30:17 | | Quit krazykit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 09:30:22 | Zagor | Martyn: afaik no |
| 09:30:29 | ameyer | I'm not 100% sure about the cube. |
| 09:30:32 | Unhelpful | ameyer: the flickering is delibrate, it's how we get more than 4 levels on greyscale targets at all, by changing the display contents back and forth between different values |
| 09:30:40 | Martyn | allright, backing up my .rockbox |
| 09:30:45 | scorche | Martyn: not at all...they are essentially the same |
| 09:30:52 | pixelma | that's how the greylib works - it's cheating the eye by quickly turning the pixel black and white. If you have a fast display you'll see that |
| 09:31:03 | amiconn | ameyer: As I said, native greys on 2bpp, greylib on mono targets. Cube needs black, white and 2 greys |
| 09:31:07 | ameyer | nah, cube's a bit blurry |
| 09:31:43 | ameyer | Unhelpful: that doesn't really explain the "video camera pointed at a CRT" issue |
| 09:32:07 | amiconn | pixelma: It's not only how the greylib works, but also how the 2bpp lcds produce their native greylevels (internally) |
| 09:32:25 | Martyn | Installed and rebooting |
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| 09:33:19 | Martyn | r14980M, corrent? |
| 09:33:32 | Martyn | r19480M rather |
| 09:33:59 | Zagor | yup |
| 09:34:23 | pixelma | ameyer: do you also mean a row (or a bit wider) of distortion that sometimes moves up or down through the pictures? |
| 09:34:50 | n1s | Martyn: could you check the buffer size under System -> Rockbox info ? |
| 09:35:01 | Martyn | crashed |
| 09:35:01 | Unhelpful | that's probably due to greylib's display switches happening while the LCD refreshes, i would think? |
| 09:35:28 | Zagor | Martyn: how? |
| 09:35:39 | Martyn | Buffer : 0Kb |
| 09:35:41 | ameyer | seems quite a bit wider. It's almost like it's got white pixels that shouldn't be there. |
| 09:35:46 | Zagor | ! |
| 09:35:57 | ameyer | I'd guess... 10 rows? |
| 09:35:58 | pixelma | Unhelpful: I can't remember the technical details but yes it has to do with the LCD refresh rate and can't be compensated for |
| 09:36:13 | Martyn | Yep, Buffer = 0KB |
| 09:36:35 | n1s | yes, that will likely cause problems |
| 09:36:41 | Martyn | Zagor, I also don't see any DB .. files yes, but the usual "album/playlist/etc" is missing |
| 09:36:45 | pixelma | ameyer: yeah, that's what I mean, just couldn't explain it better... |
| 09:37:06 | | Quit planetbeing (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 09:37:17 | Zagor | Martyn: yes I disabled db in this build. it won't fit without more tweaks. |
| 09:37:20 | Martyn | Battery: 7% |
| 09:37:36 | Martyn | Int: 395MB/1.84GB |
| 09:37:53 | Martyn | MSD: 7.41GB/7.41GB |
| 09:37:59 | Martyn | Buffer: 0KB |
| 09:38:04 | Martyn | Album Art: No |
| 09:38:14 | Martyn | Version: r19480M-081219 |
| 09:38:33 | pixelma | ameyer: this effect is more or less visible, even depending on temperature. Sometimes it's almost not noticeable for me |
| 09:38:46 | Martyn | Zagor : Trying to play any MP3 file crashes |
| 09:38:50 | Zagor | ah, the pcm buf is allocated from audiobuf isn't it? |
| 09:38:56 | Martyn | Zagor : HARD crash ... screen fades away |
| 09:39:03 | n1s | Zagor: think so yes |
| 09:39:22 | Martyn | I had to do the "two fingered reboot of death" (with the hold switch slide) to get it back |
| 09:39:24 | * | pixelma wonders whether we could drop the "Album Art" line in the info screen, now that resizing is in |
| 09:39:43 | * | n1s was just wondering the same |
| 09:39:44 | Martyn | <−− will now restore his favorite players original .rockbox |
| 09:39:49 | Zagor | Martyn: yeah, thanks. I have to free up some more memory. |
| 09:40:09 | Martyn | Oh, question... |
| 09:40:12 | Unhelpful | pixelma: seems sensible. also, cleaning out the search-by-size stuff probably is, as well |
| 09:40:32 | Martyn | On the current 3.0 build, why does the Sansa have to boot BACK into the original firmware to do USB sync? |
| 09:40:59 | Unhelpful | there was some debate as to whether we might want to let WPS load a "customized" AA via that mechanism, but i think that if we do that, it should be via a string in the tag, and not sizes. |
| 09:41:02 | pixelma | Unhelpful: you mean when searching for the bmp? |
| 09:41:08 | Martyn | I noticed that sometimes, If I unexpectedly plug/unplug the USB cable I can see a rockbox USB image .. but then the whole thing is frozen |
| 09:41:31 | Unhelpful | pixelma: yes, it still looks for cover.WxH.bmp |
| 09:41:38 | Zagor | Martyn: usb is software-based and our usb stack isn't stable yet |
| 09:41:59 | Martyn | Ahh... |
| 09:42:13 | Martyn | So you simply call into the original firmware instead |
| 09:42:17 | pixelma | Martyn: that's a known bug that in some builds the automatic reboot into the originl firmware doesn't work properly |
| 09:43:25 | Martyn | I noticed .. it's interesing that when the usb cable is unplugged, it reboots :) |
| 09:43:53 | Martyn | Okay, back to r19469 |
| 09:44:03 | Martyn | buffer = 28Mb :) |
| 09:44:07 | Zagor | :) |
| 09:44:47 | Martyn | now, all I want for Xmas is a Sansa that can -charge- <and> play music at the same time. LOL |
| 09:44:54 | | Quit krazykit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:46:45 | pixelma | ever tried to hold Select while plugging and Rockbox is running? |
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| 09:48:03 | pixelma | not sure how well it charges though |
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| 09:48:15 | pixelma | Unhelpful: I could imagine that someone wants different sized albumart (maybe with different aspect ratio, combining back and front cover etc.) for different WPS, or trusts a PC app more to do the resizing |
| 09:49:22 | Martyn | pixelma : Nice trick, thanks :) |
| 09:49:26 | Martyn | pixelma : Charging :) |
| 09:49:26 | Unhelpful | for aspect ratios, like i said, extend the %Cl tag to have a string label for the AA, and try to load cover.<label>.bmp |
| 09:52:09 | Zagor | yikes, we have many framebuffer copies... |
| 09:52:24 | Unhelpful | regarding the latter, there are definitely better scaling algorithms than the resizer is using, and maybe they're worried about battery life, as well |
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| 09:55:54 | pixelma | I'd just not loose the ability to define which of the bmps to use (when there are different ones). If the label idea makes that easier codewise than what there is now, I'd be all for it |
| 09:56:03 | pixelma | s/than/then |
| 09:56:11 | pixelma | no |
| 09:56:49 | | Nick ameyer_ is now known as ameyer (n=ameyer17@75.57.190.24) |
| 09:57:30 | Zagor | gahh! DIR_UNCACHED is not a proper name for a struct. |
| 09:59:01 | Unhelpful | pixelma: i'll leave it alone, then, unless there's some strong consensus for or against. it's removed in pictureflow, in my repo, but pictureflow has never let you tell it which AA to look for, so i don't see a great loss, there. |
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| 10:00 |
| 10:03:56 | Unhelpful | looking for an opinion on these: unhelpful.cleansoap.org/vc-dither.png">http://unhelpful.cleansoap.org/vc-dither.png http://unhelpful.cleansoap.org/bayer-dither.png |
| 10:04:19 | Unhelpful | i like the vc dither a good deal, mostly because it doesn't look as obviously patterned |
| 10:04:49 | n1s | yeah, i think vc looks niicer too |
| 10:05:13 | Unhelpful | it'd be a free change, just replacing the bayer dither matrix in bmp.c with the void-and-cluster one |
| 10:07:06 | | Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@83.219.11.225) |
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| 10:08:55 | ameyer | I agree on vc |
| 10:09:09 | ameyer | although there has to be some sort of cost |
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| 10:10:32 | Unhelpful | ameyer: ...no, we use an array of dither values to do dithering. it's replacing one 16x16 array with another. |
| 10:11:10 | ameyer | man, |
| 10:11:12 | ameyer | erm |
| 10:12:24 | Unhelpful | the only issue i see is that we may actually want the bayer dither for some things... icons and the like. having *both* would not be free. |
| 10:12:44 | | Quit __lifeless (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:15:23 | pixelma | while I see the difference, I can't really say what I like better. In some parts (overall impression is better with vc but it looks to me that it's a bit more "blurring" the picture if one can say so) |
| 10:16:36 | Unhelpful | pixelma: i get that impression a bit, too. it may have to do with the vc matrix tending to cluster together similar dither values |
| 10:17:35 | scorche | i agree...the center of the flower definitely looks clearer with bayer |
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| 10:37:53 | * | Zagor spots 394 #ifdef CONFIG_CODEC in the code |
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| 10:40:18 | pixelma | btw. because it was an argument earlier - I could imagine the button bar being usefull on touchscreen targets |
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| 10:40:44 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:42:29 | Zagor | pixelma: possible, but rather extensively rewritten |
| 10:43:12 | Unhelpful | try unhelpful.cleansoap.org/vc6-dither.png">http://unhelpful.cleansoap.org/vc6-dither.png as well... there are also 2-5, but i think 6 looks best, so far |
| 10:43:28 | Zagor | keeping code "just in case" is never a good idea anyway |
| 10:44:08 | Unhelpful | scorche: i can see what you're saying... i think it's a good deal better in #6, but i'm still not sure if i'm seeing "pattern == clean" or an actual better picture |
| 10:47:02 | ameyer | needs something like an animated gif that flips through the options |
| 10:47:29 | ameyer | vc6 looks better than the first vc |
| 10:47:42 | scorche | ameyer: eazily done with 2 tabs and browser shortcuts.. |
| 10:48:09 | | Quit mud-rb (Remote closed the connection) |
| 10:48:29 | scorche | Unhelpful: better, yes, but bayer still looks superior |
| 10:48:32 | | Quit Seed ("cu, Andre") |
| 10:49:04 | ameyer | it's close between bayer and vc6 |
| 10:49:30 | Unhelpful | i should probably be writing down what values i ran the generator with, for these... |
| 10:49:44 | ameyer | it'd potentially help to see what the original looks like |
| 10:50:04 | ameyer | depending on exactly what we're going for here |
| 10:51:47 | scorche | and i would reserve all final opinions for when i look at it on device too ;) |
| 10:52:06 | ameyer | hrm, vc6 > vc, bayer > vc6, and vc > bayer. |
| 10:52:23 | Zagor | ameyer: indeed the s1mp3 is/was hwcodec |
| 10:52:26 | ameyer | so basically, I'm not making much sense |
| 10:52:31 | Unhelpful | ameyer: stop going in circles! :P |
| 10:52:46 | * | ameyer needs sleep |
| 10:53:13 | scorche | ameyer: i wouldnt say that |
| 10:53:57 | | Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 10:53:59 | ameyer | well, either I'm going insane or the difference isn't that significant |
| 10:54:27 | ameyer | maybe vc6 is better than bayer |
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| 10:56:43 | Unhelpful | ok, added orig.png and vc7-dither.png |
| 10:57:02 | Unhelpful | gonna just put all these matrices on pastebin, if anybody wants to mess with them, they can |
| 10:58:21 | ameyer | not finding orig.png |
| 10:58:43 | ameyer | vc7 looks better than vc6, IMO |
| 10:58:58 | Unhelpful | fixed. |
| 10:59:30 | pixelma | huh? vc7-dither links to vc-dither for me |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:23 | Unhelpful | pixelma: might need a refresh, it was actually redirecting me back to vc-dither before i moved it to the right directory |
| 11:00:34 | | Quit Seed ("cu, Andre") |
| 11:00:44 | Unhelpful | maybe i should just put the generator for these in core, and let the user tweak its knobs ;) |
| 11:01:03 | ameyer | only issue is in the upper-right corner there's white pixels that maybe shouldn't be there |
| 11:01:33 | n1s | i like the vc(6|7) best, they seem to be of pretty similar quality |
| 11:01:47 | ameyer | or not |
| 11:01:49 | Unhelpful | i'd say vc7 preserves detail a little bit better |
| 11:02:01 | Unhelpful | and has no white pixels in the top right corner? |
| 11:02:09 | pixelma | can't get to the -7 one |
| 11:02:10 | ameyer | looking at this from about 4 feet on a 9" screen isn't great |
| 11:02:30 | Zagor | yay, the chinese s1mp3 players use an 8-bit cpu. fun for the whole family! |
| 11:02:41 | ameyer | the white pixels are there, but not really different from the others |
| 11:02:43 | | Quit JdGordon|afk (Remote closed the connection) |
| 11:02:47 | Unhelpful | pixelma: the link, if it helps: unhelpful.cleansoap.org/vc7-dither.png">http://unhelpful.cleansoap.org/vc7-dither.png |
| 11:03:03 | Unhelpful | ameyer: top left, maybe? |
| 11:03:15 | ameyer | vc7 seems a bit lighter than the original vc |
| 11:03:23 | ameyer | Unhelpful: yes, the other right |
| 11:03:26 | * | ameyer facepalms |
| 11:03:28 | pixelma | Unhelpful: still redirecting me to the vc-dither.png |
| 11:03:39 | Unhelpful | pixelma: shift-reload, maybe? |
| 11:03:57 | Unhelpful | ameyer: look at the bayer again, they're there, too. |
| 11:04:15 | pixelma | well, doesn't help if the 7 vanishes from the link bar |
| 11:04:22 | ameyer | yes, they are. It was a mistake and/or I'm an idiot. |
| 11:04:29 | * | stsquad thinks the save_playlist_screen logic is wrong |
| 11:04:33 | stsquad | if (len <= 5 || strcasecmp(&temp[len-5], ".m3u8")) |
| 11:04:33 | stsquad | |
| 11:04:38 | Unhelpful | pixelma: good point. no idea what's going on, there |
| 11:04:57 | * | Unhelpful wonders if we could have "both", for pretty cheap, by generating the bayer one on demand |
| 11:05:14 | stsquad | seems to say, always use the DEFAULT_DYNAMIC_PLAYLIST_NAME because the playlist will always end in m3u8 |
| 11:05:38 | Zagor | gcc doesn't support z80, but sdcc does! |
| 11:05:48 | Zagor | anyone for an 8-bit branch? ;) |
| 11:06:12 | pixelma | Unhelpful: opening in another browser helped (for now) |
| 11:06:23 | Unhelpful | bizarre |
| 11:06:24 | n1s | Zagor: half of rockbox would probably need to be rewritten to work well on an 8 bit cpu |
| 11:06:38 | Zagor | n1s: indeed. hence "branch" :) |
| 11:06:40 | stsquad | ANyone have any ideas? |
| 11:06:56 | n1s | not saying it isn't a Good Idea (tm) though :D |
| 11:07:32 | ameyer | Zagor: I kinda hope you're joking |
| 11:07:43 | Unhelpful | here's the src, if anybody wants to try it with actual art: http://pastebin.com/m144b4f3f |
| 11:07:47 | Zagor | ameyer: hehe |
| 11:07:55 | Unhelpful | and of course, you have the bayer matrix, already |
| 11:08:04 | ameyer | and, fwiw, it'd probably need to deal with a 24 bit DSP of unknown architecture |
| 11:09:41 | Zagor | ameyer: yup. 16 kiloword (24 bits) program memory and 16 kiloword data memory. |
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| 11:12:52 | ameyer | hypothetically speaking, would mpegplayer work on the clip once rockbox does? |
| 11:13:31 | ameyer | it'd be awesome and/or stupid if it did |
| 11:14:27 | n1s | sure it could |
| 11:14:40 | pixelma | it should (maybe does already?) |
| 11:14:42 | B4gder | greylib works so I figure mpegplayer could as well? |
| 11:14:56 | ameyer | heh |
| 11:15:30 | n1s | doom is more important anyway |
| 11:15:36 | * | ameyer ponders watching porn on a 1" 128x64 black, blue, and yellow screen with a line through the middle |
| 11:15:42 | ameyer | or whatever the size is |
| 11:15:51 | pixelma | maybe not, but should be a small step from what the m:robe100 does. IIRC funman at least started working on it |
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| 11:16:52 | * | Unhelpful would *strongly* suggest using the hq greyscale patch to anybody who tries to test these matrices on hardware, obviously |
| 11:17:31 | Unhelpful | pixelma: it does seem to be one of the few plugins that uses fancy images and does *not* use greylib |
| 11:18:21 | pixelma | "it" being sliding_puzzle |
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| 11:19:01 | Unhelpful | sorry, yes, as you said in the other channel, sliding_puzzle |
| 11:19:46 | Zagor | anyone with a e200v1 who can test a lowmem build for me? |
| 11:20:10 | Zagor | http://bjorn.haxx.se/testing/e200lowmem.zip |
| 11:21:34 | Unhelpful | it would make a nice test case for working on scaled greylib, also... unless we already have something using greylib that loads bmps? |
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| 11:22:08 | n1s | rockpaint? |
| 11:24:28 | ameyer | rockpaint only works on color screens |
| 11:24:33 | n1s | ah |
| 11:25:19 | ameyer | ooh, a feature I want: bmp viewer for grayscale targets |
| 11:25:49 | ameyer | I take back what I said about no features I really want |
| 11:26:54 | scorche | go ahead and code one up.. |
| 11:27:34 | Unhelpful | let me know when you do, then i don't need to write my own testcase for greylib scaling |
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| 11:29:25 | ameyer | I hate to make excuses, but I know virtually no C. Maybe if Rockbox was written in java. |
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| 11:30:36 | ameyer | yeah, I should learn C |
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| 11:43:50 | | Quit Seed ("cu, Andre") |
| 11:47:08 | | Join DerDome [0] (n=DerDome@141.71.76.41) |
| 11:51:49 | | Join parafin [0] (i=parafin@paraf.in) |
| 11:59:47 | | Join Schmogel [0] (n=Miranda@p3EE21BBB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:01:18 | * | Zagor looks around for testers |
| 12:01:44 | | Quit Darksair ("(define zero (lambda (f) (lambda (x) x)))") |
| 12:03:36 | Unhelpful | Zagor: in maybe 30min or so, i can |
| 12:03:53 | Zagor | Unhelpful: excellent |
| 12:03:59 | Unhelpful | what exactly will i find? ;) |
| 12:04:17 | Zagor | the easter bunny! |
| 12:04:38 | Zagor | or rather see if it works, and can play mp3 |
| 12:05:14 | Zagor | it's a test to see if the lowmem situation causes problems on other targets than ams sansas |
| 12:05:31 | Zagor | some ipod owners would be welcome too |
| 12:07:29 | | Join J-23 [0] (n=zelazko@unix.net.pl) |
| 12:10:24 | gevaerts_ | Zagor: I can test |
| 12:10:32 | Zagor | gevaerts_: which target? |
| 12:10:46 | gevaerts_ | [ce]200v1 |
| 12:11:13 | Zagor | gevaerts_: excellent. just grab the zip and try it. http://bjorn.haxx.se/testing/e200lowmem.zip |
| 12:18:21 | gevaerts_ | Zagor: 325KB Buffer. It somewhat works, as in selecting an mp3 file goes to the WPS, it says it's playing, but nothing happens. pressing play/pause twice makes it start. It seems to stop now and then, in which case the same trick works to get it going again |
| 12:18:52 | gevaerts_ | Also (maybe expected) I get the hardcoded WPS and not cabbiev2 |
| 12:19:04 | | Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 12:19:20 | Zagor | did you install the whole zip? |
| 12:19:47 | * | gevaerts_ checks again |
| 12:20:14 | gevaerts_ | Everything seems to be there |
| 12:20:20 | | Join faemir [0] (n=faemir@88-106-244-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 12:20:23 | Zagor | strange |
| 12:20:35 | Zagor | how big is the pcm buffer? |
| 12:21:10 | Zagor | and in general, does the audio thread screen look normal? |
| 12:22:59 | gevaerts_ | pcm: 82944 / 88200 |
| 12:23:26 | gevaerts_ | I'm not very familiar with that screen however |
| 12:24:00 | Zagor | what does the alloc and usefl lines say? |
| 12:25:01 | | Join moos [0] (i=Mustapha@rockbox/staff/moos) |
| 12:25:07 | * | gevaerts_ makes a screendump |
| 12:26:27 | gevaerts_ | gevaerts/dump.bmp">http://www.evonet.be/~gevaerts/dump.bmp |
| 12:27:26 | Zagor | that looks ok to me |
| 12:28:51 | Zagor | does the time increase when playing? or is it completely stopped? |
| 12:29:38 | gevaerts_ | Once I jumpstart it with pause/play, it looks normal |
| 12:30:18 | Zagor | ah, and it works fine after that? no skips/artefacts or other bugs? |
| 12:30:31 | gevaerts_ | Before that, time doesn't increase, it shows the "playing" icon, and the flash icon seems active (i.e. it's mostly showing but it flickers a bit) |
| 12:31:44 | | Join Seed [0] (n=ben@bzq-84-108-232-45.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 12:32:29 | Zagor | try waiting a while and see if the flash icon stops |
| 12:32:40 | gevaerts_ | No skips |
| 12:33:18 | gevaerts_ | After a bit of playing around it stops working altogether, so I have to reboot |
| 12:34:53 | Zagor | panic or freeze? |
| 12:35:02 | | Join Lss [0] (n=Lss@cm203.delta90.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 12:35:41 | gevaerts_ | No, it just doesn't seem to read the track any more (i.e. the pause/play trick doesn |
| 12:35:52 | gevaerts_ | t work, and it doesn't get the bitrate or length) |
| 12:36:30 | gevaerts_ | Also, I've now let it sit for three minutes, so I think I'm sure that it doesn't start by itself |
| 12:36:53 | Zagor | and the flash icon keeps flickering? |
| 12:37:21 | Unhelpful | back. any point having another tester? |
| 12:37:44 | gevaerts_ | Yes. Actually it's also mostly-on while playing |
| 12:38:09 | Zagor | Unhelpful: if you have time, please try and see if you get the same issues |
| 12:38:29 | Unhelpful | np, bayercalc can wait for tonight |
| 12:40:26 | gevaerts_ | Zagor: it now switched to another track (first one ended normally), and the flash icon goes on a lot less |
| 12:40:36 | gevaerts_ | Yay, Data abort! |
| 12:40:48 | gevaerts_ | at 000096C4 |
| 12:40:49 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:41:58 | Zagor | I'd say we definitely have lowmem issues |
| 12:42:06 | Zagor | gevaerts_: that's in buffering.c |
| 12:42:20 | gevaerts_ | Good :) |
| 12:44:47 | Lss | question: rockboxing an ipod from a virtualbox winxp install. bad idea? y/n |
| 12:45:18 | scorche | Lss: we even provide a linux binary for rbutil...why do you want to use windows? |
| 12:45:35 | Unhelpful | stalls on inital play, i hear a clicking sound @ about 2Hz |
| 12:45:44 | Zagor | gevaerts_: shrink_handle() |
| 12:45:56 | Unhelpful | pause/play gets me music |
| 12:46:32 | Zagor | that gdb stub would be good now... |
| 12:46:42 | Unhelpful | only get default wps |
| 12:47:09 | pixelma | Lss: also, what kind of Ipod exactly? |
| 12:47:18 | | Quit PaulJam (".") |
| 12:47:18 | Lss | 5.5g |
| 12:47:40 | Unhelpful | correction, cabbiev2 didn't work, but iCatcher does |
| 12:47:44 | B4gder | Lss: there's no point in complicating it, why not just use the native linux way? |
| 12:47:49 | Zagor | in fact I think it is line buffering.c:806 |
| 12:48:21 | Lss | so formatting to fat on linux is ok? |
| 12:48:25 | Unhelpful | stalled, no sound, no error, after switching to rockboxed WPS |
| 12:48:44 | Unhelpful | pause/play starts it again |
| 12:48:45 | pixelma | Unhelpful: I'd guess that the build has albumart disabled |
| 12:49:06 | Zagor | pixelma: ah yes, I disabled that. good catch. |
| 12:49:32 | Unhelpful | mm, and it gives me the default because of the unrecognized tag? |
| 12:49:40 | pixelma | yes |
| 12:50:18 | scorche | Lss: have you looked at the documentation?...the instructions are for linux... |
| 12:50:41 | Lss | im scanning through it atm |
| 12:50:42 | Unhelpful | data abort @96C4 :D |
| 12:52:56 | | Join killan [0] (n=nnscript@c-415472d5.06-397-67626721.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 12:52:56 | | Quit killan_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 12:53:59 | Zagor | no wonder the sim didn't catch it. for some reason it has 1.38 MB buffer, in spite of setting 2MB ram limit |
| 13:00 |
| 13:03:47 | Lss | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxExtras < font url is bad btw might be a good idea to fix it |
| 13:06:19 | pixelma | hmm... the link is working for me |
| 13:07:50 | B4gder | works fine for me too |
| 13:08:04 | pixelma | is that also something which is available from different mirrors? download.rockbox.org suggests so |
| 13:08:36 | B4gder | that? |
| 13:09:06 | | Join mib_nwxyz83p [0] (i=d8ef529a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e3f5ed5f0d18e325) |
| 13:09:08 | Zagor | http://download.rockbox.org/daily/fonts/rockbox-fonts.zip gives me 404 |
| 13:09:26 | pixelma | the font package |
| 13:09:42 | B4gder | maybe one of the mirrors is shaky? |
| 13:09:46 | | Quit mib_nwxyz83p (Client Quit) |
| 13:09:56 | | Join mib_nwxyz83p [0] (i=d8ef529a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ff79431060861151) |
| 13:10:04 | pixelma | if you could get it from different mirrors and one of them is down or so... |
| 13:10:30 | Zagor | B4gder: hmm, http://haxx.rockbox.org/daily/fonts/rockbox-fonts.zip is 404 too |
| 13:10:39 | B4gder | oh |
| 13:10:51 | * | B4gder tries to come up with someone to blame |
| 13:11:18 | | Quit mib_nwxyz83p (Client Quit) |
| 13:11:34 | | Join mib_k9tdgmnh [0] (i=d8ef529a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6cb1a42bdba6fcbf) |
| 13:12:01 | B4gder | does make fontzip work at all? |
| 13:12:10 | | Quit mib_k9tdgmnh (Client Quit) |
| 13:12:14 | | Join MarcGuay [0] (n=chatzill@ip216-239-82-154.vif.net) |
| 13:12:24 | MarcGuay | http://download.rockbox.org/daily/fonts/ is empty... |
| 13:12:32 | Zagor | B4gder: yes |
| 13:13:08 | pixelma | MarcGuay: not for me |
| 13:13:09 | | Quit lasser ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Iceweasel 3.0.4/2008112309]") |
| 13:13:30 | MarcGuay | Refresh cache? Or something beyond my knowing probably. |
| 13:13:41 | B4gder | Zagor: not if I haven't built rockbox first |
| 13:13:45 | B4gder | No firmware found @ rockbox.iaudio at /home/dast/rockbox-build/tools/buildzip.pl line 85. |
| 13:13:50 | Zagor | B4gder: aha |
| 13:14:14 | B4gder | that's what the daily font builder does... |
| 13:15:30 | pixelma | ah, "newest" available font zip on the mirror I caught is a November 17 one |
| 13:16:32 | B4gder | yeah, the makefile overhaul must've broken this |
| 13:16:53 | Lss | humm that was really painless |
| 13:16:58 | Lss | rockbox up and running |
| 13:17:06 | Zagor | B4gder: how did it work before? I did not change buildzip.pl |
| 13:17:25 | B4gder | ah maybe some other change broke it |
| 13:17:44 | B4gder | me aways |
| 13:17:46 | | Part stsquad ("offline for a few days") |
| 13:18:37 | pixelma | I see http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=19125 committed on Nov 17 |
| 13:18:54 | pixelma | eh |
| 13:19:54 | pixelma | thought it was the wrong link for a moment but it is the correct one |
| 13:21:14 | | Quit AndyIL (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 13:21:34 | Zagor | pixelma: indeed |
| 13:23:06 | | Join AndyI [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32) |
| 13:23:44 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:24:35 | Zagor | yessss, segmentation fault in sim |
| 13:24:57 | Zagor | but it was in SDL :-( |
| 13:29:20 | | Nick gevaerts_ is now known as gevaerts (n=fg@195-144-092-183.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be) |
| 13:31:18 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCF95D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:31:56 | Zagor | whoa |
| 13:32:03 | Zagor | (gdb) p audiobuf |
| 13:32:07 | Zagor | $1 = (unsigned char *) 0xb7f0aef0 |
| 13:32:12 | Zagor | (gdb) p audiobufend |
| 13:32:21 | Zagor | $2 = (unsigned char *) 0x826c020 |
| 13:34:10 | | Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) |
| 13:34:16 | | Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 13:36:27 | Zagor | duh, that is the content. &audiobuf is a lot more sane. |
| 13:37:34 | Zagor | umm, no. /me needs coffee. and stop speaking to myself. |
| 13:38:30 | | Quit midgey () |
| 13:41:19 | | Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@c-71-205-31-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 13:47:39 | | Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=rmenes@rockbox/staff/LambdaCalculus37) |
| 13:52:05 | | Quit midgey () |
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| 13:52:46 | | Join spY|blubb [0] (n=spv@141.100.90.40) |
| 13:53:10 | jhMikeS | gevaerts_: any idea why the USB stack fails badly if trying to connect from within a debug screen? After the drive mount fails and you disconnect, further attempts to do a real connection don't work until reboot. This doesn't happen on one with an ATA bridge. |
| 13:53:15 | | Nick spY|blubb is now known as spY|work (n=spv@141.100.90.40) |
| 13:53:28 | | Nick spY|work is now known as spY|blubb (n=spv@141.100.90.40) |
| 13:53:51 | spY|blubb | hi |
| 13:55:31 | | Join dfkt [0] (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 14:00 |
| 14:06:37 | LambdaCalculus37 | In the beginning of Chaper 2 of the iPod nano manual, there's a blurb about not running Rockbox on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gen nanos. But at the same time, there's a warning about not attempting to install the bootloader on a 2nd gen nano in the "Installing the Bootloader" section. |
| 14:07:09 | LambdaCalculus37 | Would it be a good idea to remove the latter blurb, or revise it to reflect the nano generations as in the beginning of the chapter? |
| 14:07:42 | | Join SUSaiyan` [0] (n=SUSaiyan@cc84863-b.zwoll1.ov.home.nl) |
| 14:07:44 | * | pixelma sighs (at the Installation chapter) |
| 14:07:47 | | Quit Acksaw (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 14:07:56 | | Join Aurix_Lexico [0] (n=comrade@c-68-56-205-239.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 14:08:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: It does need a little work (the installation chapter). |
| 14:08:24 | | Join ender1 [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 14:08:51 | | Quit spY|blubb ("Verlassend") |
| 14:10:00 | pixelma | that's a bit of an understatement IMO |
| 14:10:44 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: I'm fixing up the iPod parts of it. |
| 14:11:08 | pixelma | I really need to brush up my notes on that and ask for help of native speakers somewhere :\ |
| 14:11:42 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: Native speaker right here. |
| 14:14:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | Hmmm... another thing that I've noticed as well is that iPodpatcher now appears to unmount your iPod for you when you ask it to install the bootloader. |
| 14:14:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | Well, on OS X, anyway. |
| 14:14:55 | * | LambdaCalculus37 wonders if iPodpatcher does the same on Linux |
| 14:17:11 | pixelma | I think I've been told by linuxstb that this step still in the manual is not necessary anymore |
| 14:17:38 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCF95D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:18:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: I'll remove it, then. |
| 14:19:36 | pixelma | note: I know nothing about ipodpatcher (other than "it exists) |
| 14:22:22 | linuxstb | pixelma: Correct. http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=14569 |
| 14:22:29 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:23:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: I've removed that step. |
| 14:23:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | I've also added a warning that you may need to be root on OS X as well. |
| 14:24:00 | linuxstb | Do you? I can't remember ever needing to be root. |
| 14:25:30 | | Quit SUSaiyan (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 14:25:46 | | Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:26:08 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: Here, I needed to be root. |
| 14:26:09 | pixelma | as I said, I think the chapter needs a lot more work. E.g. some steps to finish bootloader installation on the Iaudios are still only in the "manual install" part (and RBUtil is also not perfectly clear about it) and some things that I think one would like to know before are also somewhere hiding behind now etc. |
| 14:26:53 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: Which version of OS X? Maybe Apple changed something... |
| 14:27:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: 10.4.11 here. |
| 14:27:36 | linuxstb | Are you sure you had to be root - that there wasn't another issue (e.g. itunes open) ? |
| 14:28:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: Let me try it. |
| 14:28:53 | linuxstb | You can also check the permissions on /dev/disk* (the ipod disk device) |
| 14:28:56 | * | LambdaCalculus37 gets out his iPod video |
| 14:30:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: Heh... iPodpatcher seems to work with no root access. |
| 14:30:54 | * | LambdaCalculus37 calls it force of habit |
| 14:32:00 | n1s | jhMikeS: great work on the Beast chargign patch, will try it out tomorrow if i can find the time |
| 14:35:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: Should I keep the mention of being root in anyway, in case another version of OS X needs it? |
| 14:35:35 | jhMikeS | n1s: thanks. I'm looking to unload that code already. :) |
| 14:36:46 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:38:08 | linuxstb | LambdaCalculus37: No, I think it will just confuse people. |
| 14:38:52 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: Okay, out it goes. |
| 14:40:50 | | Join itcheg [0] (i=41d59de2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-27002bfcff9e413a) |
| 14:40:51 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:44:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | I was going to add this note to the manual as well: http://pastebin.com/d2d5ff1dc |
| 14:45:27 | | Join Nibbler [0] (n=Nibbler@e181098236.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:45:58 | n1s | oh, s/iP/Ip/ |
| 14:46:46 | n1s | as per section 1.3 |
| 14:48:02 | | Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC for those that like to be different") |
| 14:51:13 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: Fixing up now. |
| 14:51:57 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: That means all instance of Apple's "i*" has to be "I*"; e.g. Itunes, Ipod, etc.? |
| 14:52:46 | LambdaCalculus37 | And ipodpatcher should be "Ipodpatcher" in the manual? |
| 14:53:30 | Zagor | filenames should not be cased |
| 14:53:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | Zagor: Right-o. |
| 14:54:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | Zagor: What about the iTunes/iPod instances? |
| 14:54:17 | | Join dfkt_dt [0] (i=dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 14:55:14 | Zagor | I remember we've discussed that in the past and said "screw their silly marketing casing", but I don't recall the exact reasoning. |
| 14:55:29 | pixelma | I'm not sure there was a consensus, only discussions every now and then |
| 14:55:37 | | Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) |
| 14:55:43 | | Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 14:56:05 | pixelma | LambdaCalculus37: like when you changed it to iAUDIO in some places in the wiki ;) |
| 14:56:34 | | Quit DerDome (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 14:59:32 | Zagor | Right now my gut feeling is that that using Apple's variant is the right thing to do, since that is the commonly recognized "logo". |
| 14:59:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: I know, I know... blame Cowon for writing it like that on their products. ;) |
| 14:59:43 | Zagor | at least where it doesn't cause technical issues |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:10 | n1s | from section 1.3 in the manual "Manufacturer and product names are formatted in accordance with the standard rules of English grammar, e.g. “Ipod playback is currently unsupported”. Manufacturer and model names are proper nouns, and thus are written beginning with a capital letter. " |
| 15:00:35 | Aurix_Lexico | tried to build zenutils, but it fails. http://pastebin.com/m391b8d25 :/ any help? |
| 15:00:40 | n1s | so i think we decided on this sometime |
| 15:00:53 | Zagor | cowon seems to have an uppercase fetish overall |
| 15:00:59 | Zagor | n1s: looks like it |
| 15:01:19 | | Quit dfkt (Nick collision from services.) |
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| 15:01:35 | | Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 15:02:38 | | Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 15:04:11 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: So "Itunes/Ipod", then? |
| 15:04:49 | n1s | LambdaCalculus37: I would say that is what we decided, and it seems to be more common in the manual |
| 15:05:55 | n1s | ah, maybe you should even use \playerman{} instead of Ipod |
| 15:06:28 | n1s | as that is more common, but since the text seems ipod-specific i don't think it matters |
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| 15:08:06 | | Quit Horscht (Nick collision from services.) |
| 15:08:16 | Zagor | Aurix_Lexico: what make are you using? I don't even have a Makefile in zenutils |
| 15:08:24 | Zagor | is zenutils windows-only? |
| 15:08:36 | Aurix_Lexico | it uses cmake |
| 15:08:50 | Zagor | but you ran 'make'? |
| 15:09:00 | Aurix_Lexico | cmake -g "Unix Makefiles" .. generates normal make files |
| 15:09:04 | Zagor | don't tell me cmake replaces gnu make |
| 15:09:11 | Zagor | aha |
| 15:09:48 | Zagor | how messy... |
| 15:09:59 | * | linuxstb wonders how cmake slipped into Rockbox |
| 15:10:17 | Zagor | svn log says "Add zook's ZenUtils to SVN" |
| 15:10:29 | | Join lasser [0] (n=chatzill@W8610.w.pppool.de) |
| 15:10:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: We have \dap{} there as well. |
| 15:10:49 | Zagor | and basically nobody touched it since |
| 15:11:01 | * | linuxstb also notices GetPot has a modified LGPL license... |
| 15:12:01 | linuxstb | mcuelenaere seems to have been working on it since. |
| 15:12:19 | Zagor | linuxstb: modified, or just misspelled? |
| 15:12:33 | linuxstb | modified - "no military use" |
| 15:13:43 | Zagor | then that is not free software |
| 15:14:54 | Zagor | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#NoMilitary |
| 15:15:30 | linuxstb | Yes, I know. |
| 15:15:55 | Zagor | or rather I think the nomilitary provision simply has no effect |
| 15:16:44 | n1s | LambdaCalculus37: yes, that works as well, it's just a matter of how specific you want to be |
| 15:16:52 | linuxstb | Zagor: How so? |
| 15:18:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: Here's what I have done to the install chapter for the iPod so far: http://pastebin.com/d3eb4eab3 |
| 15:19:04 | Zagor | LGPL section 10: "You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein." |
| 15:19:29 | | Join tyfoo [0] (n=tyfoo@dyndsl-095-033-070-207.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 15:19:52 | Zagor | Though that might chiefly apply to redistributors. I'm not certain. |
| 15:19:57 | | Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 15:20:05 | linuxstb | I think it does - I was about to suggest that. |
| 15:22:05 | | Quit nplus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 15:24:22 | * | domonoky reads the Call for translators, and thinks it might be difficult to find a native speaker of esperanto :-) |
| 15:27:05 | | Join PaulJam [0] (n=PaulJam_@vpn-3067.gwdg.de) |
| 15:27:29 | pixelma | hmm... hanging build? |
| 15:28:12 | | Nick Horschti is now known as Horscht (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 15:29:00 | jhMikeS | hmm... hanging indeed. |
| 15:31:47 | dionoea | domonoky: according to wikipedia, about 10 000 people are native esperanto speakers :) |
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| 15:39:50 | | Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) |
| 15:40:05 | n1s | LambdaCalculus37: looks good to me, not really sure what you have changed though :) |
| 15:40:59 | mcuelenaere | linuxstb: around? |
| 15:41:11 | linuxstb | mcuelenaere: Yes |
| 15:41:30 | mcuelenaere | linuxstb: do you still have that copy of the Ingenic FTP? |
| 15:42:01 | linuxstb | mcuelenaere: Sorry, no. I deleted it a couple of days ago... |
| 15:42:12 | mcuelenaere | ahh too bad |
| 15:42:25 | linuxstb | mcuelenaere: Did you read the comments about zenutils (about 30 minutes ago) ? |
| 15:42:26 | mcuelenaere | it seems ingenic deleted some files off their FTP and you had them |
| 15:42:34 | mcuelenaere | nope, I'll look in the logs |
| 15:42:58 | linuxstb | mcuelenaere: Didn't someone else (rasher?) mirror them? |
| 15:43:14 | mcuelenaere | I don't know, rasher: did you? |
| 15:45:10 | mcuelenaere | Aurix_Lexico: did you got zenutils to compile? |
| 15:46:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: I copied the information about iTunes to the Windows subsection, changed a couple of instances of "iPod" to \dap{}, and added a note stating that if bootloader install fails, to check that you have a supported iPod and try again if you do. |
| 15:47:33 | | Quit GodEater ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 15:50:30 | n1s | LambdaCalculus37: ah, well as i said, looks good :) |
| 15:51:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: Cool, I'll commit it shortly. |
| 15:51:45 | | Part LinusN |
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| 15:56:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: Before I do, though, do you think I should also mention the 3rd and 4th gen nano in the first warning of the file (\opt{ipodnano} right up at the top)? |
| 15:56:37 | n1s | I'm not sure |
| 15:57:05 | n1s | it seems a bit misplaced anyway, we do not warn about "Classic" ipods in the ipod video manual for example |
| 15:58:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | n1s: Actually, we do. |
| 15:58:53 | pixelma | I would like to make it a checklist style introduction (for all affected players) somewhere at the top of the installation chapter (also Ipod "Classic", v2 Sansas and how to recognise them etc.) |
| 15:59:09 | pixelma | but that requires a bit more time I guess... |
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| 16:12:49 | * | LambdaCalculus37 makes sure to have all the changes in both the trunk and the 3.1 branch |
| 16:13:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | Revised just a little more: http://pastebin.com/d186d0a6e |
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| 16:31:27 | gevaerts | jhMikeS: No real idea. I'll try to have a look at it soon |
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| 16:32:22 | jhMikeS | gevaerts: Thanks. The FX and similar simply ignore the connection. |
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| 17:00 |
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| 17:19:21 | Hoe`` | on my iPod 5th gen (30gb) I've got a lot of duplicates in the database, so i delete the database_#.tcd files to start over from scratch? |
| 17:20:03 | krazykit | or just initialize the database again. |
| 17:20:58 | Hoe`` | i tried that |
| 17:21:48 | Hoe`` | it's impressively fast at indexing files |
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| 17:22:35 | Hoe`` | this is my first new mp3 player since owning an Archos Recorder, those things were awesome, just the size of a toaster :) |
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| 17:26:28 | * | LambdaCalculus37 is going to commit his manual changes |
| 17:30:29 | Lss | does anyone here even remember the creative jukebox? |
| 17:30:41 | Lss | anyway fiddling with my rockbox 5.5g now |
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| 17:30:57 | Lss | takes some getting used to but i think it works nicely |
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| 17:43:16 | Hoe`` | it seems a little bit buggy, but i'm really happy with it. hell, the pen & paper theme alone makes it worth it :) |
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| 17:59:09 | kugel | linuxstb: I have a patch here making mkamsboot work for c200v2, can you look at it? |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:11 | kugel | linuxstb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/88620/ |
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| 18:01:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | Is there any reason why the 90-degree rotation can't be applied to Pictureflow on the Gigabeat F/X/S? |
| 18:01:50 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: on which targets does it work? |
| 18:02:40 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: It works fine, but I was just curious about having PF rotated on the Gigabeat. |
| 18:02:57 | kugel | On which? |
| 18:02:59 | | Quit _lifeless (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:02:59 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 18:03:07 | kugel | I mean which target is rotated in of? |
| 18:03:08 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: All three (F, X, S). |
| 18:03:18 | | Join loswillios [0] (n=jan@unaffiliated/loswillios) |
| 18:03:31 | loswillios | hi guys |
| 18:03:47 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: I don't think there's any. But anyway, it's probably because of the font drawing, but that one could be stolen from mpegplayer |
| 18:03:57 | kugel | given that the creator had thought of it that is |
| 18:04:05 | kugel | might just be his lazyness |
| 18:04:22 | loswillios | I accidently formated and partitioned my ipod nano.. now it says I need to connect it to itunes to reset it |
| 18:04:32 | loswillios | is there a way I can do that with linux? |
| 18:04:50 | LambdaCalculus37 | Are you trying to install Rockbox on it? |
| 18:04:54 | | Quit __lifeless (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:04:56 | loswillios | yes |
| 18:05:00 | | Join _lifeless [0] (n=lifeless@83.219.8.75) |
| 18:05:02 | BigBambi_ | loswillios: There is a manual restore page in the wiki |
| 18:05:02 | gevaerts | loswillios: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodManualRestore |
| 18:05:09 | BigBambi_ | there you go :) |
| 18:05:20 | loswillios | ah, thanks |
| 18:05:29 | | Part Hoe`` |
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| 18:06:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: That's why I was wondering about it. On the Gigabeats, Mpegplayer is rotated for video playback (of course), but displays the menu in portrait orientation. |
| 18:06:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | Maybe something similar can be done for PF. |
| 18:07:02 | kugel | probably |
| 18:07:12 | * | LambdaCalculus37 will look at the code later |
| 18:07:52 | pixelma | mpegplayer and some other use a different way of drawing (and applying the rotation), don't ask me for details |
| 18:08:53 | LambdaCalculus37 | pixelma: I know Mpegplayer, Doom, and Rockboy are rotated, but I'll look at PF and perhaps even Zxbox. |
| 18:09:33 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: taking from mpegplayer should basically be a copy and pastejob I think |
| 18:09:50 | LambdaCalculus37 | kugel: Perhaps, but I'll ask the opinion of other devs. |
| 18:10:06 | kugel | rotating would surely be nice, indeed |
| 18:10:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | Especially because larger album art will look better in landscape mode. |
| 18:10:46 | kugel | LambdaCalculus37: jhMikeS implemented it for mpegplayer, so he's your man. I remember he said the rotated font drawing should possibly be in the core |
| 18:11:04 | * | LambdaCalculus37 summons jhMikeS |
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| 18:48:44 | rasher | mcuelenaere: (for the logs) I have a mirror, yes |
| 18:49:51 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 18:50:28 | pineappleclock | is the sansa e250 the only mp3 player you can still buy on Amazon that runs rockbox? |
| 18:51:34 | linuxstb | You can't buy any player new that runs Rockbox. |
| 18:52:38 | pineappleclock | ok thanks |
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| 18:59:01 | kugel | linuxstb: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9679 needs some review, especially the fist patch |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:07:10 | mcuelenaere | rasher: thanks, but I already found the files I was looking for |
| 19:09:10 | rasher | mcuelenaere: Alright. Don't hesitate to ping me if you need anything else |
| 19:09:44 | | Nick mib_6qc6ehvt is now known as MarcGuay_werk (i=cf6be8f5@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ad259c3c51ab86e9) |
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| 19:10:08 | mcuelenaere | rasher: thanks. how long are you planning to keep the files? |
| 19:10:55 | rasher | mcuelenaere: indefinitely, most likely |
| 19:11:06 | mcuelenaere | ok |
| 19:11:55 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:16:10 | jhMikeS | LambdaCalculus37: yessum? |
| 19:16:51 | BigBambi_ | jhMikeS: Many many thanks for the charging work - it works wonderfully |
| 19:17:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | jhMikeS: I was thinking... can screen rotation from Mpegplayer be applied to Pictureflow for the Gigabeat? |
| 19:17:38 | jhMikeS | BigBambi: welcome. |
| 19:18:31 | Aurix_Lexico | mcuelenaere: which file in the ZVM's firmware is the code that runs on the main CPU? |
| 19:18:34 | jhMikeS | LambdaCalculus37: I'd imagine so. Should every plugin that uses a portrait display implement it's own rotation? |
| 19:19:37 | jhMikeS | BigBambi_: you ran it on USB-only as well as main? what size batt? |
| 19:19:47 | | Quit tvelocity[a] ("Αποχώρησε") |
| 19:19:48 | LambdaCalculus37 | jhMikeS: Isn't rotation implemented in the core? Because besides PF, Zxbox can also make use of it. |
| 19:20:33 | BigBambi_ | jhMikeS: yes, and 1000 mAh |
| 19:20:34 | jhMikeS | LambdaCalculus37: no. mpegplayer changes coordinates around and for fonts has it's own small rotated bitmap function. |
| 19:20:56 | BigBambi_ | jhMikeS: I haven't done a 'full' usb charging test |
| 19:21:16 | LambdaCalculus37 | jhMikeS: Ahh, okay. So rotation has to be implemented on a "per plugin" basis, then, am I correct? |
| 19:21:20 | BigBambi_ | but it seems good when I use it - is there anything you would like me to look for? |
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| 19:21:34 | jhMikeS | BigBambi_: I was hoping to get a little better than retailos. It only ends up at about 4.07V unloaded after USB charge. |
| 19:21:54 | BigBambi_ | hmmm, it seems funny on windows |
| 19:22:26 | BigBambi_ | I have just plugged it into windows holding menu, and debug screen says charger absent |
| 19:22:34 | BigBambi_ | I tried it before on linux and it was fine |
| 19:22:37 | jhMikeS | That was the OF USB charge. I was trying to push it a bit higher. |
| 19:23:00 | jhMikeS | BigBambi_: The USB stack doesn't configure properly like that on windows anyway. |
| 19:23:01 | BigBambi_ | shit |
| 19:23:08 | * | BigBambi_ dropped his beast |
| 19:23:13 | jhMikeS | :( |
| 19:23:21 | LambdaCalculus37 | Shit. :( |
| 19:23:23 | BigBambi_ | jhMikeS: So I should ignore windows and look at linux? |
| 19:23:46 | BigBambi_ | It is OK, it was only charging, and seems fine. Fortunately no disk activity :) |
| 19:24:31 | BigBambi_ | jhMikeS: It seems to be charging, but says charger absent |
| 19:24:47 | jhMikeS | BigBambi_: If linux configures it right, just try it there. So long as it knows it has 500mA to use it will charge. |
| 19:24:55 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:25:02 | BigBambi_ | i.e. I Charge has a value (86 mA atm), but if I unplug USB it says 0 |
| 19:25:39 | jhMikeS | If it thinks it only has 100mA, it uses the highest charger setting <= 100mA to at least not drain the battery so quickly. |
| 19:25:40 | BigBambi_ | The battery is quite full (BP 4.066V) so 86 mA makes sense |
| 19:25:50 | BigBambi_ | ah, OK |
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| 19:26:06 | NSplit | niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
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| 19:26:06 | | Quit jhulst (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
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| 19:26:06 | | Quit courtc (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 19:26:26 | BigBambi_ | I'll plug it into my linux PC and see what it says |
| 19:26:27 | jhMikeS | 4.066V should be seeing > 200mA if it knows it may charge. |
| 19:26:29 | BigBambi_ | One mo |
| 19:26:33 | BigBambi_ | OK |
| 19:26:57 | NHeal | niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 19:26:57 | NJoin | domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 19:26:57 | NJoin | SUSaiyan` [0] (n=SUSaiyan@cc84863-b.zwoll1.ov.home.nl) |
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| 19:26:57 | NJoin | rvvs89 [0] (n=ivo@bright-snat.ucc.asn.au) |
| 19:26:57 | NJoin | courtc [0] (n=court@unaffiliated/courtc) |
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| 19:28:05 | BigBambi_ | jhMikeS: Yes, linux is ~240 mA charge |
| 19:28:17 | BigBambi_ | shit |
| 19:28:26 | * | BigBambi_ got beer on his beast |
| 19:28:42 | * | LambdaCalculus37 hands BigBambi_ a towel |
| 19:28:54 | * | jhMikeS thinks BigBambi should either put the beer away or the beast |
| 19:29:04 | BigBambi_ | never! |
| 19:29:16 | BigBambi_ | It was superficial splashing only :) |
| 19:29:51 | BigBambi_ | jhMikeS: So should I wait for it to finish charging, then unplug usb, then see what the battery voltage is? |
| 19:30:44 | jhMikeS | BigBambi_: If you slip the main charger in real quick and then flip the battery switch off so it's just floating open, that's the most useful reading. |
| 19:31:10 | BigBambi_ | after USB charging is done? |
| 19:32:24 | jhMikeS | yes. then reboot with above setup and look at the voltage from the bootloader. |
| 19:33:19 | jhMikeS | because batt switch off = 2.40V reading always. plugging charger = will start charging it higher |
| 19:33:44 | BigBambi_ | OK |
| 19:34:12 | BigBambi_ | I'm off out in 30 mons - if it hasn't finished by then, I'll do it later and post to the task |
| 19:34:18 | BigBambi_ | *mins |
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| 19:35:38 | jhMikeS | BigBambi_: ok |
| 19:36:32 | * | jhMikeS notices the charging indicator on the battery graphic matches the cabbie background image too well to see it clearly |
| 19:37:12 | BigBambi_ | I didn't notice that - I spoend all my time staring at the battery debug screen :) |
| 19:37:34 | * | kugel finds the disasm he got from fdinel weird |
| 19:37:50 | jhMikeS | The indicator is very bouncy with the shorter battery filter. (32 vs. 128 samples) |
| 19:38:22 | BigBambi_ | Which does v4b use? |
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| 19:41:18 | | Quit Acksaw (Operation timed out) |
| 19:43:50 | jhMikeS | BigBambi_: all the patches use the length 32 one. perhaps a 1000mAh battery will not dip as much with HD activity. perhaps the internal and displayed levels should use different ones. |
| 19:44:56 | BigBambi_ | jhMikeS: Pass! However, if you would like me to make any measurements, please just ask. I also have a 120 GB disk in it (and I haven't looked at the current draw for that w.r.t. the 60 GB one) |
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| 19:46:48 | | Quit stoffel_ ("leaving") |
| 19:46:49 | jhMikeS | BigBambi_: Do an adapter charge afterwords and check the voltage after it settles (takes a few minutes to flatten). No worry about battery switches or anything there. Using the HD much will also prevent it from charging on USB. |
| 19:47:22 | BigBambi_ | OK, will do |
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| 19:50:01 | | Quit Acksaw (Connection reset by peer) |
| 19:50:10 | Photoguy | Is there a logical reason why videos converted via Winff have problems? The audio lags behind about 3-4 seconds! |
| 19:50:24 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 19:50:43 | BigBambi_ | WinFF uses ffmpeg as a backend IIRC |
| 19:50:48 | BigBambi_ | and it has always been fine for me |
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| 19:51:38 | Photoguy | Do you think it's Rockbox audi settings then? |
| 19:51:42 | jhMikeS | Sometimes WinFF messes up the sync. Usually not though. |
| 19:52:03 | BigBambi_ | Would that depend on the encoding settings or the input file, or both?> |
| 19:52:35 | Photoguy | Why ssometimes? |
| 19:53:33 | jhMikeS | BigBambi_: I haven't really found out a pattern. Changing the settings may help. |
| 19:53:36 | | Quit moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:53:45 | Photoguy | Hm. |
| 19:54:11 | | Quit MarcGuay_werk ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 19:54:37 | * | jhMikeS had only had perhaps one go wrong. |
| 19:54:52 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: hi! have you started trying to figure out the IPU on the S? |
| 19:54:53 | BigBambi_ | Odd, I've not had a problem with it myself, but I haven't done much conversion |
| 19:55:15 | BigBambi_ | Photoguy: Is it out of sync on both your PC and Rockbox? |
| 19:55:36 | Photoguy | I didn't check on my compute |
| 19:55:38 | Photoguy | r |
| 19:55:40 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: I've looked at every module to some extent for imx31. I'm somewhat unclear on how to use it but then it hasn't been a focus yet. |
| 19:55:59 | BigBambi_ | Photoguy: Ìt is worth checking, to try and see where the problem lies |
| 19:56:08 | Photoguy | ok |
| 19:56:18 | jhMikeS | mpegplayer uses the timestamps in the file since that's why they're there |
| 19:59:14 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: If I commit that patch, which only touches powermgmt.c in a minor way, I'll probably simplify the power code in general. I didn't want to rearrange it in that patch but the beast code can easily adapt to it. |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:20 | Nico_P | nice :) are you planning on taking suspend/resume into account? |
| 20:02:08 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: I think I'll go with what amiconn also wants which is to have one loop that calls all the functions. Perhaps I'll include the possibility of an event queue which would be better at least for the beast. |
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| 20:02:23 | | Quit {phoenix} (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:02:24 | | Quit XavierGr () |
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| 20:03:01 | * | kugel cries |
| 20:03:17 | Nico_P | I haven't really followed those conversations, but why would the event queue be better for the beast? |
| 20:03:20 | | Quit Acksaw (Connection reset by peer) |
| 20:03:28 | * | Photoguy sympathises |
| 20:03:59 | | Quit japc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:05:41 | jhMikeS | Nico_P: Better response for setting the current (important for USB) and likely simpler code for detecting transitions. |
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| 20:17:16 | slact | Sometimes after updating the database, i see some albums listing every track twice. This is on a 5G ipod, latest builds. anyone aware of this? |
| 20:20:21 | | Join petur [0] (n=petur@d54C6F64C.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:20:50 | kugel | ok |
| 20:21:06 | kugel | I might have found out how to read buttons properly on the fuze |
| 20:23:32 | | Quit Photoguy ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008121622]") |
| 20:25:46 | | Quit Lss (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 20:29:24 | saratoga | kugel: theres a lot of AMS patches on the tracker, are any ready to commit? |
| 20:31:43 | | Quit t0mas (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 20:32:28 | kugel | saratoga: not sure myself |
| 20:32:58 | kugel | I would have said the button one, but it should wait since I might have found the correct way just now |
| 20:33:14 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 20:34:20 | kugel | saratoga: I think the buttonlight & backlight sw fading could be committed, they don't harm |
| 20:36:07 | kugel | saratoga: well, they bring no major improvement (and buttonlight isn't even reliable), but it's better than svn imho |
| 20:38:44 | kugel | not to mention that buttonlight doesn't work at all in svn |
| 20:41:03 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 20:44:44 | | Quit Jaykay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:45:21 | loswillios | is it possible to make rockbox pause the song when the earphones are pulled out? |
| 20:47:27 | karashata | loswillios, only on targets that support headphone detection |
| 20:47:35 | domonoky | loswillios: on players with the neccessary hardware, rockbox can do this. |
| 20:48:38 | kugel | domonoky: We're possibly back at an isr for button reading, I analyzed the disassembly fdinel gave me |
| 20:48:49 | loswillios | I have an ipod nano, but I haven't found an option to enable it |
| 20:49:38 | domonoky | kugel: and what does the dissassembly say ? and any traces of the wheel in this dissassembly ? |
| 20:50:01 | loswillios | should it work out of the box or do I need to enable it somehow? |
| 20:50:05 | | Join perrikwp [0] (i=474cd1dd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2f3d219739c9c2ea) |
| 20:50:39 | loswillios | oh wait |
| 20:51:02 | domonoky | loswillios: its an option. take a look at the manual. |
| 20:51:44 | loswillios | yeah just found it, thanks |
| 20:51:45 | kugel | domonoky: it's only reading dbop data |
| 20:52:04 | kugel | which is 2byte long, enough for all buttons |
| 20:53:06 | kugel | dbop_din, so it's input |
| 20:53:35 | domonoky | so we should really try to read the buttons with dbop, with luck we also might find the missing buttons and the wheel (two pins).. |
| 20:53:49 | | Join BigBambi__ [0] (n=Alex@72.198.66-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 20:55:29 | domonoky | i checks the wheels itself, and its a ALPS rotary encoder, with two output pins, like on the normal e200. so it really should be somewhere on the gpio s and not i2c or else. |
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| 21:00 |
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| 21:02:48 | * | jhMikeS found out what the bouncy battery indicator was about (loopy mistake) |
| 21:05:53 | bertrik | hm, what can dbop do that gpio can't? |
| 21:06:38 | bertrik | w.r.t. reading buttons |
| 21:07:59 | domonoky | bertrik: not interfere with DBOP writing on the same ports ? |
| 21:08:14 | | Quit BigBambi_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:10:44 | | Quit grndslm (Connection reset by peer) |
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| 21:15:45 | kugel | bertrik: dbop is gpio, just better (the manual says high speed gpio) |
| 21:16:44 | kugel | I just think dbop is used because there aren't really many gpio pins (as opposed to sansa v1) so it needs to be shared |
| 21:19:12 | kugel | that looks scary |
| 21:19:31 | kugel | in case it works, i have no plan why ;) |
| 21:24:15 | | Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
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| 21:27:27 | | Quit Jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]") |
| 21:30:22 | saratoga | bertrik: DBOP is a highspeed output port designed for driving LCDs |
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| 21:32:00 | kugel | saratoga: not only output |
| 21:32:03 | saratoga | it can do input too, though only on some pins |
| 21:32:42 | kugel | btw: my code didn't work, I'll analyize more later, got to go now |
| 21:32:48 | | Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008111319]") |
| 21:33:09 | saratoga | and no interrupts on the input pins |
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| 22:00 |
| 22:09:17 | Bagder | the delta size table has a nice xmas-tree like look |
| 22:09:25 | bluebrother | ok ... should Rockbox Utility auto install install the latest release? |
| 22:09:58 | bluebrother | or should it stay with the current most recent build? |
| 22:10:16 | Zagor | bluebrother: I think release |
| 22:10:29 | Zagor | current build should be a concious choice |
| 22:10:41 | bluebrother | I'm in favour of that too, but I was wondering if anyone has objections |
| 22:11:26 | bluebrother | the code changes are basically ready, and I want to push the new rbutil release tomorrow −− I can't guarantee that I can create binaries the days after tomorrow |
| 22:11:35 | Llorean | Current release. |
| 22:11:59 | * | domonoky would like "current" release (with the server tell what is "current") :-) |
| 22:13:08 | * | bluebrother would like to retrieve the release info from the server too (but that has to wait until after 3.1) |
| 22:13:45 | | Join n1s [0] (n=nils@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 22:14:06 | Zagor | does it have to wait? we can simply create a symbolic link "release" that points to the current release dir. |
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| 22:14:42 | Zagor | or "latest" rather, since we already have "release" :-) |
| 22:14:50 | bluebrother | true, but I'd like to display a short info about whats going to get installed. |
| 22:15:08 | bluebrother | but that could be moved to the next rbutil release instead :) |
| 22:15:43 | Zagor | bluebrother: :-) otoh the files have the version number so you will have to do a server check first anyway to see what the files are called. |
| 22:16:02 | bluebrother | I kinda dislike the current auto install anyway −− I'd like to have some "checking system", then a summary window where one can make ones choices before starting to do anything at all |
| 22:16:22 | bluebrother | then we could also add a release / build selection |
| 22:16:48 | Zagor | bluebrother: that sounds good. |
| 22:17:34 | bluebrother | and I really hate that spinlock that is done during installation. Eats way too much cpu power |
| 22:17:52 | bluebrother | nevertheless, this won't make it until tomorrow |
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| 22:26:40 | | Quit futile_man ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]") |
| 22:28:42 | | Quit sarixe ("Ex-Chat") |
| 22:28:52 | | Quit fredddy (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:34:32 | bluebrother | ok, does anyone want to propose a better wording? Otherwise I'll go for this: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/snapshot5.png and http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/snapshot6.png |
| 22:35:45 | Llorean | bluebrother: I'd rather "minimal" than "small" personally |
| 22:36:16 | * | gevaerts agrees |
| 22:36:16 | bluebrother | hmm. It's called small in the menu as well. |
| 22:36:27 | * | bluebrother goes changing |
| 22:36:34 | gevaerts | Also maybe perform instead of make? "make an installation" sounds a bit weird to me |
| 22:38:25 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 22:41:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:42:08 | Zagor | hmm, with 709KB buffer the clip mp3 crash has vanished |
| 22:43:10 | midgey | saratoga: around? |
| 22:43:55 | bluebrother | ok, committed with the points mentioned changed. |
| 22:44:39 | bluebrother | now, anyone interested in updating translations? I'm planning to build binaries tomorrow ... |
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| 22:47:03 | Zagor | yep, 512KB is the magic limit |
| 22:47:41 | Zagor | instant crash-o-rama with 500KB filebuflen |
| 22:47:45 | fml | bluebrother: why isn't the choice (what to install: the release or the current build) saved to a user prefs file? |
| 22:50:42 | | Quit lymeca (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:50:45 | bluebrother | fml: the quick install doesn't have a choice at all |
| 22:50:46 | Llorean | Zagor: Is that with or without a lowered watermark? |
| 22:51:13 | bluebrother | but I already asked myself why the last selection from the install tab isn't saved. |
| 22:52:16 | Zagor | Llorean: without. and seeing "#define BUFFERING_DEFAULT_WATERMARK (1024*512)" in buffering.c makes it rather clear |
| 22:52:17 | fml | bluebrother: I may be using an older version of the RBUtil. Every time I update Rockbox I have to set the radio button to "latest build" (or what's the name). The choice could be saved to a file. |
| 22:52:53 | bluebrother | fml: yes, that started annoying me too. |
| 22:53:22 | fml | I.e. the RBUtil would benefit from a settings window |
| 22:53:42 | bluebrother | but currently the recommended version is selected. And this is the latest release ... |
| 22:53:52 | bluebrother | huh? We do have a settings dialog. |
| 22:54:41 | fml | bluebrother: yes (to both). I mean, the settings dialog could get another option: "What to install by default / as the initial choice" |
| 22:55:14 | Llorean | Zagor: I tried changing that, and the high watermark and it kept refilling at 512k |
| 22:55:28 | bluebrother | hmm. Not sure if I like that. |
| 22:55:53 | bluebrother | The problem with the quick start is that it also installs a bootloader. For the install dialog itself, this could simply remember the last choice. |
| 22:56:04 | Zagor | Llorean: yeah. I see playback.c sets the watermark, which overrides that define |
| 22:56:44 | Zagor | and that comes from the codec |
| 22:57:30 | fml | bluebrother: no matter how, I just don't like the fact that I have to make the same choice every time (who in the world does install the official release? ;-) |
| 22:58:02 | bluebrother | hehe. Consider me at your side ;-) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:05:05 | Zagor | logf output reveals mp3 never changes the watermark, and hence it stays at 512KB |
| 23:05:28 | Zagor | perhaps this is the reason for the different codec results |
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| 23:05:54 | n1s | Zagor: that sounds like a bug in itself |
| 23:05:58 | | Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 23:06:44 | midgey | i believe wma does the same thing |
| 23:07:03 | Zagor | n1s: yes. playback.c has a nice failsafe "bytes = MIN(bytes, filebuflen / 2)" which would help here |
| 23:07:10 | Zagor | too bad it's never used... |
| 23:07:10 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC") |
| 23:07:13 | midgey | actually it look like a lot of codecs set a watermark of 512 |
| 23:07:14 | Zagor | (in this case) |
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| 23:08:35 | Zagor | midgey: yes, we discussed that the other day. I feel it's rather wrong that codecs set the watermark themselves. |
| 23:08:55 | midgey | perhaps i should be around more |
| 23:09:01 | | Quit mcuelenaere_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 23:09:12 | midgey | was the suggestion to have the buffering code take care of it? |
| 23:09:24 | Zagor | that is what I think at least |
| 23:10:07 | mcuelenaere | Aurix_Lexico: the encrypted one: (C)TL |
| 23:10:24 | Zagor | the strange thing is that playback.c already does it, sort of. it chooses the largest of its' own calculation and what the codec asks for |
| 23:10:24 | n1s | Zagor: that would mean that the buffering code needs to know the bitrate |
| 23:10:33 | Zagor | n1s: it does |
| 23:10:40 | n1s | ha |
| 23:10:42 | n1s | ah |
| 23:10:46 | Zagor | curtrack_id3.bitrate |
| 23:11:24 | Zagor | see set_filebuf_watermark() in apps/playback.c |
| 23:12:06 | Zagor | I wonder why we choose between the calculated value and the codec-supplied value. it feels like a strange solution. |
| 23:13:36 | Llorean | Well, codecs know how many bits per second of audio. |
| 23:14:15 | Zagor | Llorean: so does playback.c. in fact it is playback that does the proper calculation. the codecs just say 512KB always. |
| 23:14:43 | | Quit n1s (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:15:27 | Llorean | Ah, well that is kinda strange. |
| 23:15:30 | | Join n1s [0] (n=nils@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 23:17:43 | mcuelenaere | Aurix_Lexico: btw I just found some logs of me explaining someone else some basics about the ZVM firmware, but unfortunately (for you) it's in Dutch; so it won't be of much help I'm afraid.. |
| 23:17:51 | Zagor | ah, the bitrate based calculation is only used to calculate the size needed for the "anti-skip" setting. if anti-skip is 0, it uses the codec-supplied value directly |
| 23:18:39 | * | bluebrother spots fml already left. Too bad. |
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| 23:18:48 | | Quit |mr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:20:16 | Zagor | does anyone know what (A/C), (A/C-) and (C/A-) means in the playback.c comments? |
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| 23:32:22 | | Quit bmbl ("Woah!") |
| 23:33:21 | Aurix_Lexico | it's alright |
| 23:33:37 | Zagor | how come clip bootloader doesn't detect usb? |
| 23:33:57 | ameyer | it hasn't been implemented yet? |
| 23:34:18 | Aurix_Lexico | mcuelenare: I'm gonna start looking at the PIC's code |
| 23:34:35 | Zagor | well it detects it in rockbox |
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| 23:35:03 | ameyer | Zagor: not here. |
| 23:35:22 | ameyer | unless it detects it and doesn't do anything |
| 23:35:45 | Hillshum | the OF will boot at USB insert no? |
| 23:35:58 | Zagor | ameyer: it shows the charging icon in status bar |
| 23:36:00 | midgey | anyone familiar with the wma codec? |
| 23:37:00 | | Quit n1s (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:38:14 | ameyer | Zagor: I think that's just detecting that power is getting supplied. It does that even if you plug it into a charger. |
| 23:39:06 | Zagor | ameyer: you mean a dummy usb charger? |
| 23:39:43 | Zagor | personally I wouldn't be terribly annoyed if we mistook a dummy usb charger for an usb connection |
| 23:39:52 | Zagor | rather that than not detecting usb |
| 23:40:52 | ameyer | Zagor: yes |
| 23:41:05 | | Quit mcuelenaere_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:42:32 | Zagor | adding CODEC_SET_FILEBUF_WATERMARK makes mp3 work a lot better. |
| 23:42:51 | | Join Nibbler [0] (n=Nibbler@e181088125.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:43:21 | Zagor | but there are still issues |
| 23:43:52 | | Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:45:13 | Llorean | Zagor: On many targets we mistake a USB charger as a USB connection anyway, because we have no way to distinguish. |
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| 23:50:01 | Zagor | 1-second watermark works excellent with both 128kbit mp3 and 1440kbit wav |
| 23:51:00 | Zagor | with flash, of course. hd needs a bit more. |
| 23:52:30 | Llorean | Can we measure the spinup like we do on the archoses, then? |
| 23:53:11 | | Quit karashata ("G'bye everyone!") |
| 23:54:02 | Zagor | I can't see why not |
| 23:54:25 | | Quit Strife89 ("Dinner time!") |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).