| 00:02:19 | Dekkard | i think its time to go next door and see if they have itunes |
| 00:02:28 | Dekkard | <−−- quitter |
| 00:02:29 | | Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 00:02:30 | MarcGuay | onlysoaa: If you're asking about the rockbox bootloader and what it does, you can check out the source code. |
| 00:04:18 | XavierGr | too bad that the new build system is quite slower for cygwin usage.... :( |
| 00:09:12 | XavierGr | I don't understand why it wastes so much time into "generating dependencies" it must not be that way in linux but only a cygwin hindrance. |
| 00:09:41 | amiconn | Not for me... |
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| 00:10:24 | Zagor | XavierGr: dependency generation is *much* faster in linux |
| 00:10:24 | amiconn | It needs about the same overall time for a full build as before. It might seem slower due to the dependency generation |
| 00:14:31 | XavierGr | actually it isn't that much slower, 10 secons slower than a previous test (for a target build), I got confused because I built a simulator build that lasted 1 minute more |
| 00:15:01 | XavierGr | but yeah the dependencies step must be the bottleneck for cygwin if it wasn't for that it would be much faster |
| 00:16:43 | gevaerts | Is %Vl|a|0|0|240|42|-|-|-| a correct viewport pre-declaration for later use with %Vda? |
| 00:18:20 | onlysoaa | @MarcGuay: It's not about the rb bootloader. After disassembling my Samsung P2's original firmware, it seems it accesses registers that aren't set yet, so perhaps they were set by the ROM in the TCC7801 SoC. |
| 00:19:40 | | Quit bertrik ("Leaving") |
| 00:19:43 | pixelma | gevaerts: I'm not sure if the sysfont/userfont definition can be replaced by - (I usually fill out everything) other than that, it looks ok |
| 00:21:16 | | Part captainkwel |
| 00:21:23 | pixelma | CustomWPS says it should be possible, defaulting to user font |
| 00:22:23 | pixelma | but: you need to define the display viewport %Vd before the load %Vl |
| 00:23:16 | XavierGr | wow compiling the simulator on cygwin with make -j just gave me a segfault! |
| 00:23:20 | gevaerts | Yes, I think that's where I'm going wrong |
| 00:29:03 | * | gevaerts achieves enlightenment |
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| 00:36:55 | XavierGr | I see in the language files that there are quickscreen options, how does one access them? Is it documented? |
| 00:38:05 | Zagor | isn't it in the manual? |
| 00:38:20 | XavierGr | not under the quick screen chapter |
| 00:38:41 | XavierGr | and by a quick look on the settings menu I can't find them |
| 00:39:08 | pixelma | should be in the context menu on the settings, and it's not yet in the manual |
| 00:39:25 | Zagor | it is under each screen. "file browser key controls", "wps key controls" etc. |
| 00:39:45 | Zagor | oh, quickscreen _options_. doh! |
| 00:39:49 | pixelma | AFAIK it doesn't work for all settings |
| 00:40:31 | pixelma | well, for some settings it wouldn't make much sense anyways |
| 00:41:00 | XavierGr | pixelma: my problem is that I am trying to translate the entries but can't find them on the rockbox ui |
| 00:41:27 | XavierGr | or do you mean that I can hold the context menu button for the setting I would like to send on the quickscreen? |
| 00:41:39 | XavierGr | yup |
| 00:41:41 | XavierGr | there it is |
| 00:42:00 | pixelma | reminds me... |
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| 00:42:04 | XavierGr | sorry but I didn't know how to access them, it seems logical that way but I didn't know about it at all until now |
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| 00:43:31 | jeroen- | hello; I have updated rockbox to the current build - according the Releasenotes of 3.1. I should be able to "configure which items are shown in the quick menu." - ...but where do I configure this? |
| 00:43:58 | Llorean | jeroen-: 3.1 isn't out. |
| 00:44:05 | | Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:44:24 | Llorean | Are you running one of the development builds, or the previous release build? |
| 00:44:25 | jeroen- | Llorean: I know, tomorrow |
| 00:44:40 | Unhelpful | but do we have things in the releasenotes that aren't in svn? |
| 00:44:59 | gevaerts | I hope not :) |
| 00:45:02 | Llorean | Unhelpful: We have things in the 3.1 release notes that won't be in a "Release" version someone downloads. |
| 00:45:07 | jeroen- | I'm running rev.19555 |
| 00:45:12 | Llorean | Since the 3.1 notes don't apply to the release rbutil would give you. |
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| 00:45:34 | Unhelpful | 3.0 is older than 19xxx, i thought, though |
| 00:45:34 | Llorean | jeroen-: Just use the context menu on menu items, those that can be added to the quick screen will have the option to |
| 00:45:52 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf () |
| 00:45:53 | Llorean | Unhelpful: Yes, but I didn't know which version he had when I first asked, which is why I asked... |
| 00:46:23 | | Quit ender` (" “That’s right, babe,” Cochrane chortled. “We’re not possessors, we’re just like dimensionally disadvantaged.” -- Peter F. H") |
| 00:49:59 | jeroen- | Llorean: I see options to add to the left, bottom or right quickmenu, but that doesnt have any effect on my Ipod 30G |
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| 00:52:28 | Llorean | jeroen-: The left, bottom, or right options stay the same after you select that? |
| 00:52:57 | jeroen- | what you mean the same? |
| 00:53:17 | jeroen- | I can select those and I return to the item-settings |
| 00:53:52 | Llorean | yes, and then when you go to the quick screen, the items on the left, bottom, and right are what they were originally still? |
| 00:53:53 | XavierGr | jeroen: after you make your changes (when holding the context button on the setting you want) you should check again the quickscreen and see if that setting was put where you selected |
| 00:54:18 | jeroen- | Llorean: there is no left, bottom or right on my ipod |
| 00:54:26 | Llorean | jeroen-: Then you're not looking at the quickscreen. |
| 00:54:27 | jeroen- | or is this theme-specific |
| 00:54:36 | jeroen- | huh? |
| 00:54:44 | Llorean | jeroen-: have you read the manual, are you familiar with the terms? |
| 00:54:45 | MarcGuay | jeroen-: How are you accessing the quickscreen? |
| 00:55:03 | jeroen- | thats the mainmenu, right?\ |
| 00:55:07 | Llorean | No. |
| 00:55:10 | jeroen- | aaah |
| 00:55:36 | jeroen- | so wheres the quickmenu |
| 00:55:40 | * | MarcGuay groans at the double-titled Quick Screen/Quick Menu |
| 00:55:41 | Llorean | In the manual... |
| 00:55:52 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Is it called the "quick menu" anywhere offiical? |
| 00:55:58 | MarcGuay | Or triple, even "quickscreen" |
| 00:55:58 | jeroen- | ok ok ok |
| 00:56:19 | MarcGuay | Llorean: I believe the manual references it as the quick menu... |
| 00:56:22 | jeroen- | I never saw it and I use rockbox for 5 months |
| 00:56:30 | jeroen- | but I will look |
| 00:56:37 | blkhawk | later guys |
| 00:56:41 | Llorean | MarcGuay: it's not a menu, though... it shouldn't be that in the manual. |
| 00:56:44 | | Part blkhawk |
| 00:57:56 | Llorean | MarcGuay: No, the manual only ever calls it "Quick Screen" |
| 00:57:58 | MarcGuay | Maybe not the manual... Search came up dry... |
| 00:58:01 | MarcGuay | :) |
| 00:58:23 | Llorean | So in terms of official nomenclature at least, we're consistent. |
| 00:58:48 | MarcGuay | Found one in the FAQ. |
| 00:58:54 | MarcGuay | I'll get it. |
| 00:59:05 | MarcGuay | 1 word or two. |
| 00:59:14 | MarcGuay | Err...That's a question. |
| 00:59:16 | jeroen- | I've got it |
| 00:59:23 | Llorean | MarcGuay: Two, the way the manual has it. |
| 00:59:30 | jeroen- | I thought it was possible to change the main menu |
| 00:59:36 | MarcGuay | jeroen-: Nope. |
| 00:59:37 | jeroen- | but I had it wrong |
| 01:00 |
| 01:04:45 | gevaerts | Is there a WPS conditional that indicates whether or not there is a next track? |
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| 01:06:08 | Llorean | gevaerts: I don't believe so. |
| 01:06:23 | * | gevaerts smells a feature request |
| 01:06:24 | pixelma | I usually use %?Fn for that (checks for the next track's filename |
| 01:06:28 | pixelma | ) |
| 01:06:30 | gevaerts | That works |
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| 01:11:31 | gevaerts | Would there be any objections to searching for album art in parent directories up to the root instead of just one level? |
| 01:12:01 | Llorean | It makes sense to me. |
| 01:12:13 | Llorean | Then someone who wanted to could just have, for example, genre logos or something |
| 01:12:30 | gevaerts | That's what I was thinking of |
| 01:12:48 | * | Llorean seems to recall discussing this at some point in the past. |
| 01:13:05 | * | gevaerts may work on a patch for this |
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| 01:13:37 | gevaerts | If I manage to keep existing behaviour and no real delta, I can't imagine much objection |
| 01:14:18 | Llorean | Nor I. |
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| 01:14:48 | kugel | well, I think non-aa users will suffer from the extended search time (even more on hdd targets). But it probably won't hurt much |
| 01:15:20 | gevaerts | Ah yes. I hadn't thought of that one |
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| 01:16:27 | Llorean | It probably won't be very many levels deep, and the search happens during a period where the HD is already spun up anyway. I'd be interested to see how much longer it makes buffering take per song per extra folder level, at least. |
| 01:17:21 | kugel | does the playback start before the search is finished? |
| 01:17:32 | Llorean | Yes |
| 01:18:03 | kugel | then it shouldn't be a big problem I imagine |
| 01:18:06 | Llorean | Or at least, before the first scale finishes, so I imagine it's not dependent on the presence of the AA. |
| 01:18:12 | MarcGuay | The manuals use a file called 'utf8.def', but the recommended latex-ucs package has renamed this file utf8x.def, causing manual building errors. Any thoughts on the proper solution? |
| 01:18:17 | Llorean | I don't know if it's the search of the scale that delays AA display currently |
| 01:18:59 | kugel | I've only noticed that the playback starts before the AA is displayed, but I have no idea about the other states |
| 01:19:10 | Llorean | Other states? |
| 01:19:15 | MarcGuay | Either the compiler looks for utf8x.def instead or... I guess the image should have a compatible unicode package installed. |
| 01:19:18 | Zagor | why is track_widx and track_ridx not the same when a single file is filling the entire file buffer? |
| 01:19:36 | gevaerts | MarcGuay: didn't bluebrother fix that? a few days ago? |
| 01:19:39 | kugel | I mean "searching", "scaling" and "displaying" |
| 01:20:52 | Unhelpful | scaling is interleaved with loading. unless we know of a TSC on one of the targets, it's not going to be easy to say how much each takes. |
| 01:21:41 | MarcGuay | gevaerts: Unsure. I just re-installed the VMware image, checked out the source, and tried to build a manual and received errors. |
| 01:21:49 | kugel | TSC? |
| 01:22:44 | Unhelpful | most recent x86 chips have a cycle counter that you can read. it's often not much good if the CPU speed changes, but it measures clocks. |
| 01:23:20 | pixelma | isn't the VMware image old? |
| 01:23:41 | DogBoy | images are always old |
| 01:23:53 | Unhelpful | the tick counter does not have sufficient resolution to "subtract" the time spent loading chunks from the total time spent on scale+load, because the whole thing, with possibly hundreds of chunk loads, takes 1-20 ticks in many cases. |
| 01:24:26 | MarcGuay | pixelma: But the latex-ucs package is a fresh apt-get. |
| 01:25:04 | Unhelpful | maybe a test build with a very high HZ? |
| 01:25:20 | pixelma | MarcGuay: missed that in your explanation |
| 01:25:49 | gevaerts | MarcGuay: fresh from what source? |
| 01:26:33 | MarcGuay | gevaerts: co svn svn:// etc. |
| 01:26:46 | MarcGuay | err. no face, patch. |
| 01:26:48 | MarcGuay | path. |
| 01:27:26 | gevaerts | I mean the apt-get |
| 01:29:36 | MarcGuay | non-linux user scratches head. "apt-get install latex-ucs". I presumed it pulled it from whoever distributes the package. |
| 01:31:28 | Unhelpful | at least some arms seem to have a cycle counter, per google. i don't know if any of ours do. |
| 01:31:53 | gevaerts | MarcGuay: that comes from the debian repository for whatever release you're running, so no new things |
| 01:32:35 | kugel | ah great. my c200v2 into rockbox tree patch works! |
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| 01:59:50 | MarcGuay | gevaerts: Alrighty. Any suggestions on where to go from here? |
| 02:00 |
| 02:21:08 | XavierGr | rasher: I hope it isn't too late: FS #9699 |
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| 02:21:34 | XavierGr | (or anyone else on that matter, it is just an updated translation) |
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| 03:42:48 | onlysoaa | Hello again, anyone familiar with the TCC7801 SoC who can give me a hand at a small task? |
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| 05:00 |
| 05:02:22 | onlysoaa | Once again, hello everyone... Is there anyone who is experienced with the TCC7801 SoC who is willing to share his or her knowledge? :P |
| 05:03:26 | Llorean | onlysoaa: You are probably better off posting to the mailing list and waiting, rather than repeating that every few hours. |
| 05:04:29 | onlysoaa | I suppose. :D Thanks for the tip. |
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| 05:26:39 | * | JdGordon_ wishes there was an easier way to get trnalsations into svn |
| 05:27:13 | XavierGr | JdGordon: Updates or new ones? |
| 05:34:24 | JdGordon_ | both |
| 05:34:36 | JdGordon_ | downloading the patch, applyiong then commiting is annoying |
| 05:35:54 | JdGordon_ | ideally it would be nice to setup a web interface so known people can submit patches, maybe with it running through a checker to make sure it doesnt break anything first |
| 05:38:03 | onlysoaa | Wow, in my quest to unlock custom fonts for my Samsung P2, I think I've found information that many TCC7801 devs would like, including lots of stuff on the NAND and other things. |
| 05:38:34 | onlysoaa | I even have the complete TCC78xx SDK for whoever's interested. |
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| 05:48:23 | Llorean | onlysoaa: Look, the TCC targets aren't really worked on by very many people. You really ought to try using the mailing list so it can be seen by people who aren't always around. |
| 05:49:08 | onlysoaa | Alright, I'll do that then. |
| 05:49:28 | onlysoaa | Well first I'll see what people need exactly in the forums. |
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| 06:00 |
| 06:00:12 | Minthe | Rockbox r19559 plays wma very well... Thank you. |
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| 06:48:26 | mud-rb | is there a coding style guide somewhere? |
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| 06:50:19 | mud-rb | oh, found most of it in CONTRIBUTING, woops |
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| 08:15:29 | rockdawg | Is somebody here able to grant me wiki write access? |
| 08:23:51 | Bagderr | what's your user name in the wiki? |
| 08:24:56 | rockdawg | its EricCoolman |
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| 08:26:20 | Bagderr | you've been added, enjoy! |
| 08:26:28 | rockdawg | thanks! |
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| 08:48:30 | JdGordon | Bagderr: hey, got a min to fiddle with build servers? |
| 08:48:55 | Bagderr | sure! |
| 08:49:50 | JdGordon | ive got a static ip now, so change to just jdgordon.info, port 22... and if 100KB/s is fast enough then it can do all builds :) |
| 08:50:09 | JdGordon | and get rid of mac.jdgrodn.info... i wont bother setting it up again anyway |
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| 08:51:12 | Bagderr | ok, so no j.jdgordon.info ? |
| 08:51:18 | JdGordon | yeah |
| 08:51:35 | Bagderr | cool, I'm enabling all builds and we'll see how it looks |
| 08:51:54 | JdGordon | just doing a build to make sure rbclient has the paths all good |
| 08:52:52 | amiconn | Bagder: For the release, if we want new flash packages for archos, some things need to be coordinated. |
| 08:52:58 | | Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (n=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 08:54:05 | Bagderr | "if" you say. Do we? |
| 08:54:35 | amiconn | The release .ucl files are needed for building the packages, and the flash image version needs to be bumped in the flash plugins and the manual |
| 08:55:33 | | Nick Bagderr is now known as B4gder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 08:56:19 | amiconn | Imo we do. There's that faster & smaller ucl decompressor now. |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:09:28 | pixelma | looking at the german translation updates - midgey's edit reminds me of that non-exception for the "end of playlist" _voice_ string for the Player that's unnecessarily there in english.lang (deutsch.lang doesn't have it and works flawlessly there) |
| 09:11:41 | pixelma | I hope that change makes it into english.lang one day (probably not for the release) but... |
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| 09:24:30 | JdGordon | there was talk last night about renaming apps/recorder and apps/player... while we are at it can some of the files in apps be moved around a bit also? a folder for playback would be nice... |
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| 09:36:53 | * | pixelma wonders how "recording,h100,h120,h300,m5,x5,ipod4g,ipodcolor,ipodnano,ipodvideo,e200*,c200:" made it into english.lang |
| 09:37:22 | JdGordon | eek! |
| 09:37:47 | JdGordon | whats that for? |
| 09:37:55 | pixelma | it's only in a deprecated string but that list is somewhat useless as all the the targets listed seperately already are covered by "recording" |
| 09:38:20 | pixelma | in the sysfont "disk full" string |
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| 09:39:15 | pixelma | voice part |
| 09:40:17 | JdGordon | LANG_DISK_FULL has almost the same and is a good indication of what probably happened |
| 09:40:42 | JdGordon | these strings with buttons in them are annoying |
| 09:41:41 | pixelma | ah, but this difference is not needed in the voice field even if it's there for the language string |
| 09:42:39 | pixelma | (as long as the button name is not part of the voice string) |
| 09:51:16 | JdGordon | how would people feel about moving all the resume point stuff into the .playlist_control file? |
| 09:52:41 | JdGordon | the change would be adding 1 more command to that file and removing some ints from global_status (and nvram[.bin]) |
| 09:52:58 | | Quit daurn| (Remote closed the connection) |
| 09:53:07 | B4gder | but will require disk use on the archos for example, instead of nvram use... |
| 09:53:24 | JdGordon | .playlist_control is written to disk anyway |
| 09:53:35 | B4gder | always? |
| 09:53:38 | | Quit stoffel_ ("leaving") |
| 09:53:42 | JdGordon | yes |
| 09:53:49 | pixelma | quick brainstorming question for German speakers around: any suggestions on how to translate "quickscreen" - not too long but so that people at least have an idea what it is? |
| 09:53:50 | B4gder | isn't that a bug? |
| 09:54:16 | B4gder | I _never_ fiddle with my playlist(s) on my target, saving the control file seems totally pointless here |
| 09:54:28 | JdGordon | well, its flushed when the disk is spun up, so not really... it would force a write on shutdown/stop though |
| 09:54:56 | B4gder | but "flushed" implies that it has contents, doesn't it? |
| 09:55:05 | amiconn | JdGordon: If it works correctly, .playlist_control is only be written if the playlist changes, i.e. not during normal playback. The resume position, however, is written quite often |
| 09:55:51 | amiconn | Hence the resume position should stay in nvram, meaning it won't hit the disk if there's real nvram |
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| 09:56:36 | JdGordon | yeah, hmm... |
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| 10:11:34 | * | pixelma is getting annoyed by the "Quickscreen" |
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| 10:54:57 | B4gder | ok, I plan to do my "svn up" for the 3.1 release in ~11 hours from now |
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| 11:32:56 | daurnimator | anyone care to give me the status of rockbox on the fuze? |
| 11:33:50 | pixelma | the forum might |
| 11:35:47 | bertrik | daurnimator, the SansaV2 page is up-to-date. Buttons have been identified, as well as the wheel inputs, but they don't quite work yet. |
| 11:37:47 | _Auron_ | it's progress though |
| 11:38:08 | * | _Auron_ can't wait :) |
| 11:40:06 | daurnimator | I know I'm getting a fuze for xmas, and I'd like to get coding on it :) |
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| 13:16:45 | vertic39 | is scorche available? |
| 13:16:59 | scorche | possibly.. |
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| 13:23:34 | scorche | vertic39: what did you need? |
| 13:23:43 | pixelma | is a flyspray account name possibly restricted to ascii? I'm wondering if the German translator's name is spelled with an Ăź or not (flyspray account has "Kaspar Rothefusser" but I can also find mails by "Kaspar RothenfuĂźer" in the Rockbox ML archive). Someone has a suggestion how to deal with that (CREDITS etc.)? |
| 13:24:19 | vertic39 | scorche: you told me once you knew better "players" than the ipod 5.5 |
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| 13:24:56 | scorche | vertic39: well, it depends upon your desired purpose, but the gigabeat F devices are what are usually recommended |
| 13:26:41 | vertic39 | well, my standard was the iaudio X5V ...let's see if the gigabeat can hold up with that |
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| 13:29:25 | vertic39 | phew this one is even harder to get, right |
| 13:33:41 | n1s | pixelma: if he spells the name with Ăź, it should be like that in credits, we already have non-ascii chars in there anyway |
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| 13:38:24 | pixelma | yes, I think so too. Just wasn't sure which is the correct spelling but since I suspected Ăź when I first read the name and searching the Rockbox site turned the mails up (and also a wiki account - which seems to be delated now but google still knows about it), I'm more an more convinced |
| 13:39:29 | linuxstb | pixelma: You could email him and ask how he would like his name in the credits. |
| 13:41:45 | pixelma | indeed... and hope for a quick answer to get it into the release :) |
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| 13:47:29 | pixelma | hmm, his ML address looks like a temporary one |
| 13:50:54 | n1s | the same "addressforads" as he used in FS? :) |
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| 13:54:28 | pixelma | yes. I should just try (and also add a comment to the tracker task) |
| 13:56:33 | n1s | is there a reason KBD_MODES is not used on all bitmap targets, it seems to be defined for every btmap target except recorders and the mrobe |
| 13:56:44 | n1s | eh s/,/?/ |
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| 14:05:23 | pixelma | what is KBD_MODES used for, again? |
| 14:08:09 | n1s | i think it's for the line edit mode, so you can select the edited line and move around in it |
| 14:08:40 | n1s | and delet/insert chars in other positions than the end without dedicated cursor buttons |
| 14:13:26 | pixelma | ah yes, then it's not used for the c200 yet too. But I already changed it locally... |
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| 14:25:15 | n1s | it seems like a nice feature and i see no reason to exclude it for some targets except maybe added binsize on recorders |
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| 14:39:16 | amiconn | n1s: There's really no need for keyboard modes if the target in question has dedicated cursor and delete buttons for the input line |
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| 14:40:55 | n1s | amiconn: I think it's a bit easier to use for new users ans the only reason not to have it is binsize imho |
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| 15:17:57 | bertrik | n1s, you mentioned your beast possibly has a RDS capable radio chip, right? |
| 15:18:40 | n1s | bertrik: yes, afaict it's the si4701 which has RDS |
| 15:18:55 | bertrik | cool |
| 15:21:50 | | Quit CaptainKewl (Remote closed the connection) |
| 15:26:15 | bertrik | unfortunately my clip (and probably also the other ams sansas) just has a si4702 which does not contain RDS decoding |
| 15:30:24 | n1s | i want to have a go at it soemtime but proper scanning will probably come first |
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| 15:51:57 | * | bertrik wonders whats so special about korea w.r.t. FM settings (band, spacing and de-emphasis) |
| 15:52:00 | ertzbio | hi, i orderd a ipod 5. gen and got a ipod 6gen ;(.... should have been a christmas present.... are you guys working on a rockboxx version for the classic? |
| 15:52:29 | scorche | we as a group dont work on any port, but as far as i know, no individuals are working on such a port |
| 15:53:00 | bertrik | actually for europe, the korean settings seem to be more correct than the europe settings |
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| 15:53:29 | ertzbio | ok thx...by the way i am very happy with rockbox on my iriver h120 ^^ thx :) |
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| 16:40:05 | Galaxor | Hi. The version of rockbox I've got had a problem. I'm wondering if it's fixed yet. I'm on a sansa c250, and it doesn't have the ability to write to the disk through the usb. I have to reboot into the original firmware to put music on. Is that fixed and I should upgrade? |
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| 16:48:01 | LambdaCalculus37 | Galaxor: No, that's intended right now. The USB stack isn't 100% finished yet. |
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| 17:11:38 | Vixus | Hey guys |
| 17:11:56 | Vixus | I was wondering why rockbox won't display .txt files in the file browser |
| 17:12:30 | Vixus | Anyone know why it might not be? |
| 17:12:39 | Galaxor | lambda: Still not finished? Okay. Thanks. |
| 17:13:08 | kugel | Llorean: hey, I was wondering what we do about the quickscreen and the fact that top button changes bottom item |
| 17:14:13 | Vixus | Should I be asking in -community? :) |
| 17:14:31 | kugel | Vixus: no, but wait until someone answers |
| 17:14:49 | ertzbio | sorry maybe a stupid question...: if you run rockbock on an ipod, there is no need for itunes, right? |
| 17:15:01 | kugel | ertzbio: that's right |
| 17:15:02 | Vixus | nope, that's why i switched |
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| 17:15:22 | ertzbio | oki thx! :) |
| 17:15:33 | Vixus | sorry about the impatience, i'm catching a train soon and my family's in packing turmoil :D |
| 17:15:49 | evilnick | Vixus: have you got the browser set to Supported? |
| 17:15:51 | kugel | does anyone else feel strong about that? I've put a small patch here: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9661 |
| 17:16:10 | Vixus | evilnick: I'm not sure, is it by default? |
| 17:16:25 | LambdaCalculus37 | It should be by default. What player have you got? |
| 17:16:29 | kugel | yes, but you might have accidentely changed it |
| 17:16:37 | evilnick | Go to the quickscreen and check |
| 17:16:38 | Vixus | mini 2nd gen |
| 17:16:40 | | Quit bxcracer (Remote closed the connection) |
| 17:16:40 | pixelma | Vixus: did you check your "flie view" settings? Maybe you accidentally changed it to "music" or so, for txt you would need "supported" or "all" |
| 17:16:54 | * | Vixus checks |
| 17:17:23 | * | kugel assumes he accidentally changed it in the quickscreen by pressung up ;) |
| 17:17:40 | Vixus | how do I access the quickscreen again? :P |
| 17:17:47 | LambdaCalculus37 | Hold MENU for a second. |
| 17:17:53 | kugel | depends on the target |
| 17:18:04 | * | LambdaCalculus37 hands Vixus a copy of the manual for future reference |
| 17:18:51 | Vixus | ah you had me down guys |
| 17:18:52 | kugel | pixelma: re: translation of quickscreen: The best one that came into my mind is "Kurz[aus]wahl", not sure if it's good enough though |
| 17:18:53 | Vixus | thanks a bunch |
| 17:19:38 | Vixus | I also need to say 3.0 is amazing. (yeah yeah, only just upgraded) |
| 17:19:50 | kugel | today? |
| 17:20:00 | Vixus | few mins ago |
| 17:20:10 | kugel | hehe, check back in some hours ;) |
| 17:20:48 | Vixus | what are you up to? :} |
| 17:21:02 | LambdaCalculus37 | 3.1 will be releasing very soon. :) |
| 17:21:06 | kugel | oh, it's a secret! |
| 17:21:11 | * | kugel slaps LambdaCalculus37! |
| 17:21:24 | LambdaCalculus37 | Ouch! |
| 17:21:31 | Vixus | no worries, I was guessing as such |
| 17:21:38 | kugel | don't announce our christmas present :( |
| 17:22:07 | Vixus | man, I totally forgot about christmas. all this travelling |
| 17:22:19 | Vixus | I'd love to get in on rockbox development at some point.. maybe start with some plugins |
| 17:22:25 | pixelma | kugel: thanks. I saw it translated for a voice string as "Schnelleinstellungen" and went for that so far ("linke Schnelleinstellung" etc. for the item then). Not that sure about it either but would be consistent at least, it's not easy to translate if you want short and descriptive :\ ) |
| 17:23:23 | Vixus | I never know how to contribute to an open source project though |
| 17:24:01 | kugel | i think kurzwahl is short and descriptive imho, the major flaw is only that you'd rather connect the term with mobiles phones ;) |
| 17:24:10 | LambdaCalculus37 | Vixus: Check out our wiki. We have a ton of pages full of information. |
| 17:24:21 | LambdaCalculus37 | And you're also free to download the source and study it. |
| 17:24:35 | kugel | or phones in general, not necessarily mobile ones |
| 17:24:52 | Vixus | I think I'll do that, LambdaCalculus37. |
| 17:25:29 | kugel | Vixus: so was my assumption right? I mean that you accidentally changed it in the quickscreen? |
| 17:25:50 | Vixus | yeah probably |
| 17:25:57 | Vixus | it was set to Music |
| 17:26:17 | kugel | and you didn't browse the settings yet, did you? |
| 17:26:39 | Vixus | I've played around in there (2.5) |
| 17:26:42 | pixelma | want to commit the language update but didn't receive an answer about the spelling of the translator's name yet.. hopefully Bagder gives a warning so that I could still get it into the release (plan to commit anyways with the IMO most likely spelling if I don't get an answer but want to give it as much time as possible) |
| 17:26:53 | Vixus | I don't use playlists and stuff much so I never used the quickscreen except accidentally |
| 17:27:06 | Vixus | don't use them at all actually :| |
| 17:27:18 | kugel | pixelma: he said he'll svn up his release tree in some hours |
| 17:27:43 | pixelma | kugel: what's a "quickscreen item" then? And btw. I had a similar idea and someone said "but there are shorter menus"... |
| 17:28:48 | kugel | kurzwahltaste :) I.e. "Lege diese Einstellung auf die linke Kurzwahltaste" |
| 17:29:01 | Vixus | man I can't believe I didn't know that you could use the player while charging :( |
| 17:30:14 | pixelma | kugel: I don't want to write novels |
| 17:30:25 | kugel | :) |
| 17:31:01 | | Nick __lifeless is now known as _lifeless (n=lifeless@89.20.104.86) |
| 17:38:23 | Vixus | alright, cheers guys |
| 17:38:35 | | Quit Vixus ("Returning to packing") |
| 17:42:06 | kugel | pixelma: "Als linke Kurzwahl" (or Schnelleinstellung or whatever)? |
| 17:45:41 | kugel | does anyone have an opinion on the "up button changes bottom item in the quickscreen" issue? imho we should find a consensus before the release as it's confusing new users |
| 17:46:11 | amiconn | That behaviour should be kept for the archos recorders. On all other targets it makes no sense. |
| 17:47:06 | pixelma | I have to stop thinking about the quickscreen translation, it already feels like the whole day consists of it :\ |
| 17:47:42 | kugel | amiconn: I think http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9661 does that |
| 17:48:14 | | Quit Galaxor ("Leaving") |
| 17:49:10 | kugel | that's just a quick hack, proper would be to purge the keymaps from that ACTION_QS_DOWNINV action I suppose |
| 17:50:05 | amiconn | kugel: It looks like it does, but in a non-optimal way |
| 17:50:47 | amiconn | If we're not going to use ACTION_QS_DOWNINV on anything but recorder, the respective keymaps should have it removed as well |
| 17:50:59 | kugel | yep, that's what I thought too |
| 17:51:05 | amiconn | ->saves binsize and unnecessary events |
| 17:52:07 | kugel | amiconn: so if I would do that properly would it go in the release? |
| 17:52:23 | kugel | gevaerts: haha |
| 17:53:34 | kugel | meh, I'm just gonna do it :) |
| 17:55:23 | * | amiconn thinks that a 4th item can be introduced on target with LCD_HEIGHT >= 96 |
| 17:55:34 | amiconn | *targets |
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| 17:56:20 | kugel | the quickscreen shows on remotes, right? |
| 17:56:33 | ertzbio | is there any other chance if you will not use itunes with an ipod of the 6.gen? |
| 17:56:34 | | Quit webguest38 (Client Quit) |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:08:23 | | Quit Lss () |
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| 18:17:40 | kugel | amiconn: I updated, this should be better now |
| 18:23:02 | | Join GoodGuy [0] (n=GoodGuy@68.43.172.11) |
| 18:23:26 | kugel | really, this should be committed before release imo |
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| 18:29:51 | * | kugel sings the can we decide on that before release song |
| 18:30:24 | | Quit GoodGuy ("The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. - Samuel Johnson") |
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| 18:31:51 | rasher | Is this outright stupid: http://pastebin.ca/1292381 - allowing the user to turn off hold to continue booting, rather than always shutting down in the bootloader? |
| 18:33:59 | bertrik | yes |
| 18:35:00 | kugel | bertrik: is there any reason you used #defines instead of a enum in r19559? |
| 18:35:41 | * | kugel is just curious about #define vs enum as always |
| 18:36:09 | bertrik | kugel, yes, it's not a random enumeration, the registers indexes have to match exactly with the datasheet |
| 18:36:41 | kugel | "random"? |
| 18:37:54 | | Quit Horscht ("I got raided by the FBI and all i got is this lousy quit message") |
| 18:38:34 | kugel | and you can't get exact matches with an enum? |
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| 18:42:36 | bertrik | IMO, an enum is used when you need a bunch of different numbers but don't really care what those numbers are, for example to enumerate states for a state machine |
| 18:42:50 | bertrik | #defines are used when you want specific numbers |
| 18:43:05 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:44:28 | bertrik | an enum is stronger typed than a #define if you care about that |
| 18:45:25 | kugel | yea, that's why I'd prefer enums over defines |
| 18:45:47 | kugel | besides the fact that it's less typing (which is error prone) |
| 18:50:12 | bertrik | I don't mind typing |
| 18:59:18 | bertrik | I could have used an enum, but in this case I need the values to match up exactly with the datasheet. An enum could be made to match up also, but what if the datasheet skipped a value? would you insert a dummy member, or assign an explicit value? I think both of those defeat the purpose of an enum a bit. |
| 19:00 |
| 19:07:04 | | Join Slack_ [0] (n=brett@12-218-63-169.client.mchsi.com) |
| 19:08:10 | kugel | bertrik: wasn't the case here, hence I wondered |
| 19:08:28 | kugel | but I see your point |
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| 19:11:20 | | Quit stoffel_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 19:12:24 | bertrik | and I agree it's not always very clear what to choose, maybe people in here disagree with me |
| 19:17:10 | * | linuxstb doesn't disagree |
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| 19:24:54 | mc2739 | kugel: did you find anything in the Fuze OF concerning gpio A1, or did you find it by trial and error? |
| 19:25:41 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:25:51 | kugel | mc2739: there's a function which doesn't do anything but setting/clearing that pin. and it's called in dbob_init (and I believe in a function which calls the button read function too) |
| 19:26:39 | kugel | and, fdinel told me to try setting it before reading :P |
| 19:27:24 | | Part Kitti |
| 19:27:46 | kugel | mc2739: are you familiar with disassembling a bit? if not I could have a look in the e200v2 firmware |
| 19:27:58 | mc2739 | do you know the address in the OF where it is located? I'm trying to find something similar in the e20o firmware |
| 19:28:11 | mc2739 | s/e20o/e200/ |
| 19:28:12 | kugel | mc2739: but actually, unless we find a way to trigger an IRQ from the scrollwheel, this is all useless |
| 19:29:37 | kugel | mc2739: it's right before lcd_init_device here |
| 19:30:45 | mc2739 | kugel: is that in version 1.01.15a? |
| 19:30:56 | kugel | yea |
| 19:31:03 | mc2739 | ok, thanks |
| 19:31:24 | kugel | address is 4AEC (including OF header) |
| 19:31:53 | kugel | uhm wait |
| 19:32:04 | kugel | mc2739: oh wait |
| 19:32:42 | kugel | mc2739: I just see the function sets/clears GPIOA_3_ |
| 19:35:09 | kugel | mc2739: but the function that calls the dbop read sets in anyways |
| 19:35:19 | | Quit robin0800 ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net") |
| 19:35:49 | fredddy | I think someone could commit FS #9617 it compile all plungins now for Fuze |
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| 19:36:16 | kugel | fredddy: it's uses until all buttons work |
| 19:36:26 | kugel | useless* |
| 19:37:03 | fredddy | yes I know but I doesn`t hurt if it is in svn or ? |
| 19:39:04 | mc2739 | kugel: I didn't see anything that sets gpio A1 in the OF code, unless they are loading the register with the base and then add/sub to address different gpio pins |
| 19:39:37 | kugel | mc2739: do you have found the function which reads DBOP_DIN? |
| 19:40:32 | mc2739 | is that the code you sent me? (from fdinel) |
| 19:41:02 | kugel | yes |
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| 19:41:33 | mc2739 | I have located the same code in the e200v2 OF |
| 19:41:50 | amiconn | bertrik: You know that you can assign explicit values to enum members? |
| 19:42:12 | | Join onlysoaa [0] (n=Soaa@dsl-141-39.aei.ca) |
| 19:42:14 | kugel | mc2739: that look out for a function which calls that |
| 19:42:22 | lucent | kugel: FS #9617 is a pain to re-sync, should we ignore plugins? |
| 19:42:33 | amiconn | (not that I'd prefer enums for register values) |
| 19:42:39 | kugel | mc2739: i see such a function here even before the lcd_write_* ones |
| 19:43:30 | kugel | lucent: I'm ignoring plugins since the first day :) |
| 19:43:44 | mc2739 | ok, I'll have another look when I get off work |
| 19:43:48 | kugel | but how's it a pain to resync? |
| 19:44:19 | | Quit mc2739 ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]") |
| 19:44:32 | kugel | amiconn: any opinion regarding http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9661 ? |
| 19:46:21 | lucent | kugel: it is common to include the same button behavior as other targets by adding "|| (FOO == BAR_TARGET_PAD)" in defines, but the defines need trailing slashes, and it gets unusual for diff |
| 19:47:07 | kugel | I don't understand |
| 19:47:17 | lucent | so if another target gets plugin support keymaps added, it would disrupt this patch .... maybe this is a small problem only |
| 19:47:50 | kugel | so you mean it should be committed before another target gets keymaps in plugins? |
| 19:48:02 | kugel | since it's a mess to resync in such a case? |
| 19:48:04 | | Join ameyer [0] (n=ameyer17@adsl-75-57-190-24.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:48:07 | lucent | yes |
| 19:48:18 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:48:52 | lucent | and if another target wants to commit first, we should know to ignore this for some time and work on it after them |
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| 19:49:59 | bertrik | amiconn, yes I know |
| 19:50:02 | gevaerts | kugel: I agree that FS #9661 is a good idea, but I'm a bit doubtful if it's a good idea to introduce changes just hours before a release |
| 19:50:14 | lucent | E200 and FUZE are very similar with the keymap, the only difference I think is that E200 has "REC" and FUZE has "HOME" buttons |
| 19:52:58 | kugel | gevaerts: it's on the tracker for a few days now... |
| 19:53:33 | kugel | gevaerts: I think this should be in the release, since it's causing major confusion |
| 19:53:39 | Llorean | kugel: The cleaner version wasn't in the tracker for days. |
| 19:53:43 | ameyer | gevaerts: there's always 3.1.1 or 3.2/4.0 |
| 19:54:04 | Llorean | There's no significant harm in it waiting for after 3.1 |
| 19:54:28 | Llorean | We've had this "issue" for years now, an extra three months before it makes it into a "release" build won't be a big deal. |
| 19:54:37 | kugel | except for the hundreds that accidentally change the file filter again and again |
| 19:54:53 | * | ameyer isn't sure what the heck gevaerts is talking about and doesn't have time to figure it out right now |
| 19:55:14 | Llorean | kugel: The whole point with releases is *not* to introduce changes in intentional behaviour during the freeze. |
| 19:55:27 | Llorean | This may be a UI improvement, but the current behaviour *is* intentional, this isn't fixing a "bug". |
| 19:56:03 | kugel | I count this as a bug, but ok, not a big deal |
| 19:56:08 | gevaerts | kugel: I fully agree that this is wanted, but we decided on time-based releases, and that means that you basically lock the repository a while before release, except for critical bugfixes. |
| 19:56:26 | gevaerts | kugel: I count it as a bug too, but it's not a critical one |
| 19:57:33 | * | kugel finds every bug that leads to unexpected behavior and clueless users critical |
| 19:57:41 | kugel | ok, not critical, but major |
| 19:57:44 | Llorean | kugel: Then we NEVER have a release. |
| 19:58:02 | gevaerts | Not major either |
| 19:58:06 | Bagder | release-plan: ~2 hours until my svn up |
| 19:58:08 | bertrik | clueless users probably won't even be aware of the quickscreen :) |
| 19:58:18 | gevaerts | Major means the user lost his data |
| 19:58:23 | kugel | you don't need to be aware of it to get to it |
| 19:58:28 | kugel | as the one today has shown |
| 19:58:32 | Llorean | I don't think it's a "bug" if it's described in the manual. |
| 19:58:56 | Llorean | Or, rather, if it's expected and *should* be described in the manual, as I don't know if this is but it should've been. |
| 19:59:04 | kugel | I count this as a bug, since the quickscreen doesn't indicate at all that the up button is doing anything |
| 19:59:08 | Llorean | Right now the behaviour was intentional, it's just able to confuse people. |
| 19:59:31 | Llorean | kugel: It does indicate. |
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| 19:59:38 | Llorean | When you press the up button, the on-screen value visually changes. |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:01 | kugel | lol, I wouldn't call that indicating |
| 20:00:16 | Llorean | So visual feedback doesn't indicate the button has done something? |
| 20:00:17 | kugel | indicate means to me the make the user aware of it before he does anything |
| 20:00:28 | Llorean | You said "is doing anything" |
| 20:00:30 | Llorean | Not "will do something" |
| 20:00:31 | kugel | to* |
| 20:00:40 | Llorean | I can't read your mind, I'm sad to say. |
| 20:01:16 | Llorean | Very few screens in Rockbox actually display indications as to what buttons do what in those screens, anyway. |
| 20:02:17 | lucent | what about "Press PLAY to confirm" and the user has to press select, PLAY cancels? |
| 20:02:30 | lucent | i.e. to rebuild the database |
| 20:02:35 | Llorean | That's a bug. |
| 20:02:46 | Llorean | At least, if it's happening on a supported player. |
| 20:02:55 | | Part grndslm ("Leaving") |
| 20:03:06 | bertrik | I know this happens on some AMS sansas, e.g. clip |
| 20:03:11 | Llorean | If it's happening on one of the development ports, it's probably just related to keymaps being incomplete. |
| 20:03:13 | gevaerts | I'm pretty confident that this patch has not been tested on most of the targets it touches. *Any* code can contain bugs. That means the question is "Is this serious enough to postpone a release?", and I think the answer is no, because if it is we probably won't release again anytime soon |
| 20:03:19 | Llorean | The languages will need to be updated once the keymap is settled. |
| 20:03:54 | lucent | I haven't heard confirmation that it does the right thing on a supported target, so that's why I ask |
| 20:04:09 | kugel | gevaerts: the "unclean" version doesn't introduce bugs. That's why I put that up instead of the one which touches multiple files |
| 20:04:10 | Llorean | lucent: You can test in the sim. |
| 20:04:31 | kugel | i.e. apply the safe and unclean to the 3.1 branch, the cleaner one to the trunk |
| 20:05:49 | kugel | gevaerts: and again re few hours before the release: The task is open for a while, enough time to comment on (no matter of the patch attached) |
| 20:07:09 | kugel | Llorean: and the manual mention of the quickscreen (besides that it's outdated and doesn't contain the customizablity) doesn't indicate that up does something. |
| 20:07:20 | * | amiconn thinks 9661 should be applied in full, also to the 3.1 branch |
| 20:07:23 | Llorean | kugel: I already mentioned that it may not... |
| 20:08:50 | kugel | amiconn: I agree (obviously) |
| 20:08:53 | gevaerts | kugel: don't bring comments into it, or I'll be tempted to point out what the consensus from the current comments apart from yours is ;) |
| 20:09:15 | Llorean | kugel: There's a -dev mailing list you can use when you think your patch warrants committing to ask people to look at it. |
| 20:10:13 | | Join aurix_lexic1 [0] (n=adam@c-68-56-205-239.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 20:10:38 | amiconn | Speaking about the tracker - imo it would be a good idea to have a "flyspray" section as part of the "recent activity" on the frontpage |
| 20:11:31 | kugel | sounds like a good idea to me too |
| 20:12:04 | bertrik | amiconn, something like the 10 newest tasks, or the 10 most recently edited tasks? |
| 20:12:38 | Bagder | either way would be great |
| 20:12:39 | * | gevaerts decides to test-build 3.1 with 9661 applied, and test this on a variety of players |
| 20:12:45 | amiconn | Most recently edited, and just 5 items like in the other sections |
| 20:13:01 | lucent | some tasks get edited like they are a forum though |
| 20:13:27 | amiconn | Could be more on recent.html |
| 20:13:32 | bertrik | anyway sounds like a nice idea to me too |
| 20:13:49 | | Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 20:13:57 | Llorean | lucent: Lots of activity is good, usually. |
| 20:14:02 | kugel | Bagder, amiconn, bertrik: and while we're at it, provide RSS feed for each recent activities? |
| 20:14:02 | lucent | how to include this useful view of the tracker but discourage Forum Idols from posting needlessly to bump their attention to the front page of something? |
| 20:14:10 | amiconn | Btw, am I the only one who doesn't understand why the sections in recent.html have a different order than on the frontpage? |
| 20:14:22 | Bagder | kugel: well, that's usually more work but sure |
| 20:14:38 | * | amiconn never used RSS so has no opinion on that one |
| 20:14:52 | kugel | I regulary use the opened tasks one |
| 20:15:21 | kugel | gevaerts: that's cool! |
| 20:15:50 | | Quit fredddy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:16:14 | | Join fredddy [0] (n=freddy@p3E9E0AB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:17:27 | kugel | Bagder: you're svn up'ing your release tree in 3 hours? |
| 20:17:27 | Llorean | lucent: If that becomes a real problem, we can address it once it is. We don't worry about people editing the Wiki or posting to the ML |
| 20:18:11 | lucent | Llorean: not everyone who visits the wiki gets access to it, they have to ask for access. Okay though. |
| 20:18:27 | Llorean | lucent: Yeah, but everyone who asks gets access as long as they're polite about it. |
| 20:18:31 | Llorean | And anyone can sign up for the mailing list. |
| 20:20:20 | Zagor | I keep missing nico_p :-( |
| 20:20:27 | | Quit ZincAlloy ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 20:23:59 | gevaerts | Anyone with a Player around? |
| 20:24:33 | Zagor | gevaerts: yes |
| 20:25:15 | gevaerts | My Player doesn't seem to work properly with the 3.1 branch today. It stops playing after a few seconds to a few tens of seconds |
| 20:25:48 | Zagor | ouch. I'll dig mine out and check. |
| 20:25:58 | gevaerts | But as I don't use it very often, I have no idea if this is hardware or software |
| 20:26:25 | Zagor | I haven't used mine in years either. |
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| 20:28:22 | | Join tyfoo2 [0] (n=tyfoo@dyndsl-095-033-082-089.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:28:56 | Zagor | do we have anything written about the playback/buffering code, other than MetadataOnBuffer? does anyone other than nico_p know the philosophy/design idea behind the code? |
| 20:31:23 | | Quit aurix_lexic1 ("Leaving.") |
| 20:32:07 | Zagor | for example I find some of the thread signalling unnecessary complex. what is the point of setting the watermark in a signal rather than a straight function call? |
| 20:38:16 | Zagor | not to mention: what is the advantage in splitting this up in three different threads? |
| 20:38:22 | | Join akur [0] (n=akur@bl6-156-8.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 20:38:37 | | Part akur |
| 20:41:44 | kugel | Zagor: It's known that playback code needs some love, so I wouldn't necessary assume "that's intended/needed" |
| 20:42:48 | | Quit tyfoo (Connection timed out) |
| 20:42:56 | Zagor | since the current code is the result of a 2007 gsoc project, I think there could be more than just "natural evolution" behind it. |
| 20:43:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:44:02 | Zagor | but primarily, I don't want to poke too much in it until I've established what is and is not intentional |
| 20:45:23 | kugel | Zagor: it is? you mean playback or mob? |
| 20:45:36 | kugel | I was talking about playback, not mob |
| 20:47:04 | linuxstb | Zagor: I think there are some wiki pages about playback/buffering but I don't know their names. IIRC, pondlife has been involved in it a little, as well as Nico_P |
| 20:47:21 | Zagor | playback and buffering are rather intimately tied together, and share many design elements |
| 20:49:26 | linuxstb | Zagor: There is this page - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SoftwareCodecPlayback |
| 20:51:44 | Zagor | yay, my player has cvs-041209 |
| 20:52:06 | gevaerts | I hope you don't want support for that ;) |
| 20:53:06 | Zagor | linuxstb: thanks |
| 20:54:55 | | Quit Aurix_Lexico (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:56:55 | Zagor | do we have 3.1rc builds somewhere? |
| 20:57:29 | gevaerts | http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox-3.1RC/ |
| 20:58:01 | gevaerts | The one I tested is home-built. I'll test one of Bagder's builds soon |
| 21:00 |
| 21:01:36 | | Quit TouchOdeath (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 21:01:55 | Zagor | player works fine after 60 seconds |
| 21:08:48 | Zagor | three tracks in, not a glitch. looks fine to me. |
| 21:09:58 | * | gevaerts tries again |
| 21:15:41 | | Join jhulst_ [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 21:15:50 | kugel | gevaerts: thanks for testing |
| 21:16:23 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 21:16:56 | gevaerts | Zagor: it seems fine here now as well. I reformatted the filesystem in the meantime (I accidentally unplugged without unmounting, so the old one wasn't very good anymore), so maybe my issues were due to FAT corruption |
| 21:17:58 | lucent | interesting, the Player is a new thing to me |
| 21:18:16 | lucent | I guess the BeagleBoard wasn't around when they started? (beagleboard.org) |
| 21:18:22 | | Quit onlysoaa (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:19:28 | kugel | But I guess it still won't be committed in the release branch? |
| 21:19:35 | | Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:20:46 | | Quit jhulst_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 21:21:37 | Zagor | lucent: the Player came in 2000. http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PlayerHistory |
| 21:21:46 | | Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]") |
| 21:21:47 | gevaerts | kugel: I'd like to see a few more opinions from other devs |
| 21:21:54 | lucent | thanks Zagor |
| 21:22:24 | lucent | Zagor: but where is Player on that page? |
| 21:23:05 | kugel | gevaerts: what opinions? whether this is a bug or not, or whether it should be in the release? |
| 21:23:06 | Zagor | lucent: heh, it's the third one. Archos Jukebox 6000. |
| 21:23:52 | lucent | Zagor: oh I'm confused, I thought "Player" as referenced by developers here today, I thought that this meant the open-hardware design? |
| 21:23:52 | kugel | Zagor: you may comment on http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9661 too :) |
| 21:24:00 | gevaerts | kugel: whether it should be in 3.1. Whether it's a bug or not is not very interesting IMHO |
| 21:24:39 | * | kugel doesn't really see why anyone would object a tested bugfix |
| 21:24:50 | kugel | but lets see ;) |
| 21:25:21 | Llorean | kugel: Well, it's not a "bugfix" it's a "behaviour change" |
| 21:25:32 | Llorean | Bluebrother at least suggests he has a use for the existing behaviour. |
| 21:25:43 | Llorean | A bugfix would be simply making the arrow point up and down so people know either button works. |
| 21:26:19 | kugel | or my patch, since it's already been brought up introduce a 4th item |
| 21:26:31 | kugel | +to |
| 21:26:39 | | Join Jaykay [0] (n=chatzill@p579E711D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:26:40 | Llorean | Your patch doesn't introduce a 4th item. |
| 21:26:45 | Llorean | it simply removes an existing, used behaviour. |
| 21:26:48 | kugel | I know |
| 21:27:01 | Llorean | So, from some perspectives, it's a "break", not a "fix" |
| 21:27:51 | | Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 21:27:52 | Zagor | kugel: I hardly ever use the quickscreen so I don't have an opinion |
| 21:28:14 | Llorean | It seems like this could wait until we actually know what we want to do with the quickscreen. |
| 21:28:38 | Jaykay | can anybody fix my wiki account JohannesLinke? i cant login..... and i dont have a wiki page.... |
| 21:28:57 | Jaykay | when i try to login i get a blank page with this address: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/oops/Main/GeneralFAQ?template=oopsaccessdenied;def=topic_access;param1=change;param2=access%20not%20allowed%20on%20web |
| 21:29:01 | kugel | Llorean: if existing behavior is confusing and leads to unexpected behavior for new users, then I don't mind breaking it |
| 21:29:19 | Llorean | kugel: Fix the manual, then. |
| 21:29:24 | kugel | especially since the behavior is already perfectly covered by the down button, which does exactly the same |
| 21:29:29 | Llorean | That way new, confused users can be helped without breaking existing use patterns. |
| 21:30:16 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:31:12 | Llorean | My point is, there are several ways to reduce user confusion without removing existing behaviour, I don't understand the rush to remove an existing method of using the screen, especially since the complaint simply seems to be "the screen doesn't tell them the button press will do something" and that can be solved without making the button press do nothing. |
| 21:31:24 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 21:31:55 | | Join robin0800 [0] (n=robin080@cpc2-brig8-0-0-cust394.brig.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:32:28 | Unhelpful | a "fix" might be to indicate what it does on the quickscreen? |
| 21:33:32 | Llorean | kugel: Your patch looks worrisome for the H100 remote |
| 21:33:53 | kugel | Llorean: I'm open to other approaches, but I picked the one which is most unlikely to introduce bugs (given that it should be in the release) |
| 21:33:58 | Llorean | kugel: on the quickscreen the three options are set to three bidirectional toggles, where either direction changes the value. I think INV still needs to work for the H100 remote, to preserve that behaviour |
| 21:34:07 | Llorean | So, yours does have bugs still. |
| 21:34:15 | kugel | and "fixing the manual" is another task, since it doesn't even contain the customizability, see here http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9524 |
| 21:34:47 | | Join thegeek [0] (n=nnscript@85-89-4.72.3p.ntebredband.no) |
| 21:34:52 | pixelma | and that patch only helps a bit |
| 21:34:54 | | Quit faemir ("Leaving") |
| 21:34:56 | kugel | Llorean: I don't understand |
| 21:35:14 | Llorean | kugel: On the HXXX-series remotes, INV needs to not be removed. |
| 21:35:19 | Llorean | There's no directional control |
| 21:35:24 | kugel | Llorean: this INV thing is because you can't flip the buttons as you flip the screen |
| 21:35:39 | Llorean | Instead each of the three options is associated with one "wheel" that can be turned either direction, and both directions change that one option |
| 21:35:50 | kugel | that's not given on other targets, so the buttom button is flipped |
| 21:36:16 | kugel | I mean, you cannot do that on recorder, but on every other targert |
| 21:36:38 | Llorean | kugel: You need it on the H100 LCD remote, too, at least |
| 21:36:54 | Llorean | BUTTON_RC_VOL_UP needs to work the same as BUTTON_RC_VOL_DOWN in the quickscreen to mirror the behaviour of the other two quickscreen items. |
| 21:37:08 | Llorean | You'll notice both FF and REW do LEFT |
| 21:37:16 | Llorean | And SOURCE and BITRATE do RIGHT |
| 21:37:45 | Llorean | You can just set it to _DOWN instead of _DOWNINV of course |
| 21:37:55 | Llorean | But the removal of it entirely is bad. |
| 21:38:14 | kugel | I was going by amiconn who said this INV is only needed for recorder and not for the other targets, and he agrees with my patch |
| 21:38:24 | Llorean | kugel: This is why testing is needed. |
| 21:38:32 | Llorean | INV was used there because it was around. |
| 21:38:32 | lucent | Jaykay: it's possible your login info does not exist, try registering again |
| 21:38:38 | Llorean | INV isn't necessary, but the two buttons doing the same thing are. |
| 21:38:45 | Llorean | This is why patches should have a little time testing, instead of rushing them in. It's entirely possible there are other unique cases like this that haven't been noticed yet. |
| 21:38:57 | Jaykay | lucent: i could already login a few days ago, but illl try |
| 21:38:58 | Llorean | We don't want to _break_ things in the name of fixing something that at least _works_ right now. |
| 21:39:00 | gevaerts | Jaykay: try pinging Zagor (if he isn't pinged by this) |
| 21:41:14 | kugel | Llorean: I didn't get your h100 remote example I think |
| 21:41:34 | Llorean | kugel: If you want it to work like the left and right options, it needs to be the way it was before. |
| 21:41:48 | Llorean | It's possible to substituted _DOWNINV with _DOWN too, I believe |
| 21:41:50 | kugel | so VOL_UP and VOL_DOWN both change the bottom item? with my patch it would only be one of these |
| 21:41:57 | Jaykay | lucent: i registered again, i now have a wiki page, but when editing my page i get this blank page again |
| 21:42:00 | Llorean | But if you remove it entirely, the bottom option will work completely differently than the two side options |
| 21:42:07 | Llorean | kugel: On the REMOTE it should be both of them still |
| 21:42:21 | lucent | Jaykay: :( |
| 21:42:37 | kugel | does the screen on the remote indicate that both buttons change that one item? |
| 21:42:42 | Llorean | FF/REW both change the left item on the remote, and SOURCE/BITRATE both change the right item. VOL_UP/DOWN should both change the bottom option. |
| 21:42:47 | kugel | if not, my patch perfectly applies to them too |
| 21:42:53 | Llorean | The screen on the remove doesn't match the buttons available at all anyway |
| 21:43:33 | Jaykay | lucent: if the smiley should get the account working, it didnt work ;) |
| 21:43:38 | Jaykay | zagor: ping |
| 21:43:40 | pixelma | http://home.infocity.de/m.arnold/temp/Remotes.svg <- the upper left one I think |
| 21:43:40 | Llorean | kugel: If you want to go that way, you need to remove either _FF or _REW from doing the left option, and either SOURCE or BITRATE from doing the right one, and then it makes the screen vastly less usable overall. |
| 21:43:42 | lucent | har |
| 21:43:49 | lucent | yeah ping Zagor ;) |
| 21:43:50 | Zagor | Jaykay: yep, look at it now |
| 21:43:55 | Jaykay | thanks |
| 21:43:55 | Llorean | pixelma: Yes, the upper left one. |
| 21:43:56 | Zagor | looking |
| 21:44:09 | ameyer | hmm, I take back what I said about 3.1.1. If fs#9661 doesn't make it into 3.1, it should be pushed back to 3.2 or 4.0. |
| 21:44:14 | Llorean | kugel: Each of those tabs (the two above, and the one below) can go left or right. Both directions change one of the quickscreen items. |
| 21:44:25 | Llorean | ameyer: 4.0 isn't what comes after 3.2 |
| 21:44:25 | kugel | Llorean: why? the buttons are just flipped as the screen is flipped |
| 21:44:33 | kugel | they're still doing both |
| 21:44:36 | Llorean | kugel: It has nothing to do with screen flip. |
| 21:44:47 | Llorean | They're all horizontal buttons. |
| 21:45:23 | ameyer | Llorean: I figured 3.2, but I haven't heard anything official. The next major release after 3.1, expected to be released in late March. |
| 21:45:36 | kugel | ok I understand, the situation is even worse on the remote |
| 21:45:42 | Llorean | kugel: Think like a mousewheel that can only move a little bit. You can turn it either way, and it changes the value. |
| 21:45:45 | Llorean | The situation is BETTER on the remote |
| 21:45:49 | Llorean | It actually makes perfect sense right now. |
| 21:45:54 | Llorean | In an odd sort of way. |
| 21:45:58 | kugel | mutliple buttons doing the same thing is something I'm strongly against |
| 21:45:58 | ameyer | it shouldn't make it into 3.1.x, if there even is a 3.1.x |
| 21:46:08 | Llorean | Each of them points at a "tab" thingy, and that tab thingy changes the value no matter which way you move it. |
| 21:46:21 | Llorean | Your suggestion makes one of the tabs only work in one direction, while the other two tabs still work in both directions |
| 21:46:24 | ameyer | (oh, and it's too late to touch 3.1 unless there's something major, IMO) |
| 21:46:58 | | Quit karashata ("G'bye everyone!") |
| 21:46:59 | Llorean | kugel: Multiple buttons doing the same thing makes perfect sense on that screen, with the remote. I suspect you won't understand until you actually hold one. |
| 21:47:15 | kugel | probably |
| 21:47:33 | Llorean | My point is, though, this behaviour is made much more inconsistent by your patch. |
| 21:47:34 | Zagor | Jaykay: could you try simply restarting your browser? |
| 21:47:39 | Llorean | Since it makes one control work differently than two other controls |
| 21:48:01 | kugel | Llorean: oh yes, "much more inconsistent" |
| 21:48:05 | Jaykay | zagor: ill do |
| 21:48:08 | | Quit Jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]") |
| 21:48:11 | Llorean | kugel: Was that sarcasm? |
| 21:48:30 | kugel | yes, sort of |
| 21:48:39 | kugel | but I see your point with the remotes |
| 21:48:47 | | Join Jaykay [0] (n=chatzill@p579E711D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:48:48 | Llorean | kugel: It really does. Think that you have three light switches. Two turn the lights on and off. One though does nothing when you flip it up, but turns the lights on and off when you flip it down. |
| 21:48:52 | Llorean | You've just made that third light switch. |
| 21:49:14 | Llorean | They used to all change the lights every time they switch, but now one only works in one direction. |
| 21:49:23 | Llorean | "the lights" being "whatever option they controlled" |
| 21:49:47 | Jaykay | zagor: didnt work |
| 21:50:05 | kugel | Llorean: but if a 4th item is added you need to break remotes too, or am I wrong? |
| 21:50:07 | Zagor | Jaykay: ok |
| 21:50:27 | Llorean | kugel: The remotes either have no free buttons, or three free buttons that do not fit the quickscreen anyways. |
| 21:50:28 | | Quit fredddy (Connection timed out) |
| 21:50:33 | | Join fredddy [0] (n=freddy@p3E9E03D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:50:55 | Llorean | Even if you add a 4th item, the button you've freed up would be *more* confusing for that 4th item. |
| 21:51:14 | Llorean | The remote doesn't have Up/Down. What it has is three "left/right" buttons, two on top and one on bottom. |
| 21:51:39 | Llorean | The top left left/right button controls the left quickscreen item on left or right. The top right one controls the right quickscreen item. The bottom one controls the bottom quickscreen item. |
| 21:51:52 | Llorean | Now the bottom one only works on left, not on right, while the top two can still toggle with left or right presses. |
| 21:52:00 | kugel | I mean, are the remotes a reason do reject a 4th item too, just because the button situation is odd? |
| 21:52:34 | Zagor | Jaykay: how are you testing? trying to edit your own page? |
| 21:52:38 | Llorean | kugel: They'd be more confusing with a 4th item than the current screen is now. |
| 21:52:53 | Llorean | So, by your standards, they'd absolutely reject a 4th item for fear of user confusion. |
| 21:53:12 | Jaykay | i tried editing my own page, and editing and attach files to some other pages like faqs and sansaruntime |
| 21:53:57 | Zagor | Jaykay: any edit you do gives you that empty accessdenied page? |
| 21:54:22 | kugel | Llorean: now there (random, but generally fitting numbers) 90% confused, with my patch the other 10% are confused |
| 21:54:25 | Jaykay | yes, everytime i type my account informations in and klick ok |
| 21:54:41 | kugel | but with the difference that the 10% don't accidentally change an option due to that |
| 21:54:44 | Llorean | kugel: You think 90% of our user are confused right now/ |
| 21:55:25 | Zagor | Jaykay: try now |
| 21:55:28 | Llorean | kugel: Right now, your patch breaks remotes on at least two targets. Why not fix those, test it, and then commit it, instead of trying to rush in improperly tested fix and hope it doesn't break anything you haven't thought of yet? |
| 21:55:52 | kugel | I'm already doing this while we're discussin here :) |
| 21:55:58 | Jaykay | zagor: it works now...... |
| 21:56:05 | Jaykay | thanks! |
| 21:56:19 | Zagor | Jaykay: you simply didn't have edit rights. |
| 21:56:23 | Llorean | kugel: You don't have the hardware to actually test it... |
| 21:56:48 | Jaykay | zagor: then someone "deleted" them, i had them some time ago..... |
| 21:56:53 | Llorean | kugel: As we've clearly established, you don't care about the H100 remote because you don't understand the physical layout, and so don't hold it as an important problem with the patch (or don't believe it is, because you disbelieve I'm acting in good faith) |
| 21:57:18 | Llorean | I find it hard to believe, at this point, you'll make good calls on other hardware you haven't handled either. |
| 21:57:45 | Llorean | Why not request testers in the -dev mailing list, get people to actually report back whether QS is broken or apparently working on each of the remotes and targets, etc. |
| 21:57:55 | Zagor | Jaykay: ah. I did a cleanup run a month or so ago, and removed all accounts which had regisered >x months ago and had never made an edit. perhaps that matched you? |
| 21:58:53 | kugel | Llorean: sure I don't care about remotes, you got it right, you rumbled me |
| 21:59:10 | gevaerts | Zagor: IIRC Jaykay registered a few weeks ago at a time when a wiki issue caused new people to not get their user page. My guess is that somebody "cleaned up" the access page |
| 21:59:18 | Jaykay | zagor: i think my registration was not so long ago.... |
| 21:59:21 | Llorean | kugel: This is the problem. Your goal is to get "quick fixes" in rather than taking your time and solving the whole problem. |
| 21:59:22 | Zagor | gevaerts: aha |
| 21:59:28 | Llorean | kugel: Why is patience such a bad thing to you? |
| 22:00 |
| 22:01:15 | kugel | solving the whole problem cannot be made until there's a decision on a 4th item. And I searched for a quick fix for the release, to stop people being from being confused and helpless |
| 22:01:43 | Llorean | A quick fix is "adding an up arrow" |
| 22:01:44 | linuxstb | kugel: Hasn't Rockbox behaved like this for years though? |
| 22:01:52 | Llorean | Then you've solved it without potential bugs. |
| 22:02:17 | Llorean | Both your old quick fix and your new quick fix break remotes, this is not a good way to "fix" it. |
| 22:02:35 | kugel | Llorean: No, certainly not, since it requires rearranging the viewports and stuff in the quickscreen, which is imho not suited as a commit just before the release |
| 22:02:37 | Jaykay | better than nobody fixes it in any way |
| 22:02:44 | Jaykay | or in a few months |
| 22:03:00 | Llorean | kugel: You could put the V right next to the ^ on the same line, couldn't you? |
| 22:03:27 | Llorean | Or is the V in its own tiny viewport? |
| 22:03:34 | kugel | yes |
| 22:04:04 | Llorean | Well then, describe it in the manual, and find an icon to replace V with that indicates up and down. |
| 22:04:08 | kugel | but ok, we'll do it all right after the release, your remote point is certainly valid |
| 22:04:24 | Llorean | A single character substitution should be pretty darn safe. |
| 22:04:47 | kugel | there's no icon compiled in |
| 22:04:58 | | Join massiveH [0] (n=massiveH@pool-70-105-170-139.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:05:08 | Llorean | kugel: Yes, but you can make one and still do it more safely. |
| 22:05:11 | | Quit massiveH (Client Quit) |
| 22:05:18 | kugel | it uses the stock ff/rew/down arrows that are compiled in (like the pitchscreen) |
| 22:05:32 | Llorean | My real point though is that you haven't done full testing on this patch, but you're trying to rush it in. |
| 22:05:40 | kugel | Llorean: sure, that's something that shouldn't go in just before the release |
| 22:05:45 | Llorean | You're not interested in testing. |
| 22:08:00 | kugel | yep, that's true |
| 22:08:09 | kugel | real men don't test, that's my opinion |
| 22:08:14 | kugel | lol... |
| 22:08:46 | Llorean | kugel: Drop the sarcasm. |
| 22:09:33 | kugel | then don't claim that I don't care about abc or that I'm not interested in xyz. |
| 22:09:57 | Llorean | You're the one who claimed "(1:04:05 PM) kugel: gevaerts: the "unclean" version doesn't introduce bugs. That's why I put that up instead of the one which touches multiple files" |
| 22:10:01 | Llorean | Both versions introduce bugs |
| 22:10:14 | Llorean | You wanted to commit either version without further testing, that indicates to me you're not really interested in it. |
| 22:10:18 | * | linuxstb isn't sure this discussion is still helpful... |
| 22:10:31 | Jaykay | is it right that the list of supportet players in http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GeneralFAQ#Okay_fine_what_is_this_FAQ is outdated? or did i understand something wrong? |
| 22:10:44 | * | Jaykay nods at linuxstb |
| 22:10:53 | kugel | Llorean: I don't think the remote stuff is a bug, as opposed to the behavior on non-remotes |
| 22:11:13 | Llorean | kugel: It's most certainly a bug. |
| 22:11:14 | kugel | or if it's a bug, it's one that hurts less to the majority of users |
| 22:11:28 | Llorean | That's not the point. You didn't bother finding out if the bug existed. |
| 22:11:32 | Llorean | We don't know if there are other bugs. |
| 22:11:49 | Llorean | You're basically saying "I don't know if there are other bugs, but I hope it'll help so it should be committed" |
| 22:12:03 | Llorean | In what is supposed to be a _stable_ release. |
| 22:12:43 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 22:14:13 | gevaerts | Jaykay: I may be nitpicking, but that line doesn't really have a list of supported players. It has a list of FAQs, but I think that's still complete (although I could be wrong) |
| 22:15:04 | Jaykay | gevaerts: im sorry, i meant "what is rockbox" |
| 22:15:08 | Jaykay | the next paragraph |
| 22:15:34 | Llorean | Jaykay: Which one's it missing? |
| 22:15:52 | gevaerts | Jaykay: ah ok. seems complete to me |
| 22:16:08 | Jaykay | llorean: it says rrockbox is for the archos line, for the rest its under developement |
| 22:16:38 | Jaykay | all the mentioned targets are fully supported and others are under development |
| 22:16:47 | gevaerts | Jaykay: you know, you need to spell out everything for us :) |
| 22:16:53 | * | gevaerts agrees now |
| 22:17:38 | Jaykay | ill fix it.... i just wanted to be sure im doing it right |
| 22:18:24 | kugel | Llorean: so, what's your proposal? I guess now it's to late anyway to do something about the remotes |
| 22:19:29 | | Part linuxstb ("Leaving") |
| 22:19:43 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) |
| 22:21:05 | Llorean | kugel: I told you how to fix it quite some time ago. |
| 22:21:15 | Jaykay | are X5, M5, and M3 including all the targets mentioned on the main page? |
| 22:21:19 | Llorean | You went on to argue about the remotes not really mattering instead of just fixing it. |
| 22:22:09 | kugel | Llorean: ok, but those other fix need to wait for post-release |
| 22:22:26 | Llorean | I told you how to fix _your patch_ too. |
| 22:23:00 | Llorean | You either need to pick a direction and make all the rockers work in the same direction, or you need to keep them both omnidirectional by replacing the DOWNINV with DOWN for the remote. |
| 22:23:09 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 22:23:11 | gevaerts | Jaykay: there are some minor differences, but they are mostly the same hardware. X5V has no FM, and the L ones have a bigger battery |
| 22:23:15 | Llorean | The latter is much, much better for the way the hardware works / makes sense. |
| 22:23:31 | Jaykay | gevaerts: should i write them all down in the faq? |
| 22:23:44 | gevaerts | I don't think that's really needed |
| 22:23:55 | Llorean | kugel: you'll need to find someone who actually has experience with the other two remotes (non-LCD and H300 LCD) to find out which behaviours make sense for them. |
| 22:24:05 | Llorean | I don't think they have the same rocker situation the H100 LCD does |
| 22:24:19 | kugel | it's too late for that I think |
| 22:24:29 | Llorean | The patch shouldn't go in without further testing anyway |
| 22:24:33 | Llorean | Who knows what else is broken, right? |
| 22:24:48 | kugel | I mean, I could test on sims, but that's apparently not enough |
| 22:25:13 | kugel | I tested on sims and the quickscreen still worked, so it wasn't an apparent bug to me |
| 22:25:38 | gevaerts | You won't find button issues in the sim |
| 22:26:20 | Llorean | Especially when you have unique inputs like the rocker switches, that aren't well simulated by two (well, three) keys instead. |
| 22:27:55 | kugel | I see |
| 22:28:29 | Llorean | The "Left, Right, Down" layout of the quickscreen doesn't match the controls on the remote at all, because there is no normal directional control. |
| 22:28:54 | Llorean | But there is a "left" a "right" and a "bottom" rocker, physically, so it actually is pretty intuitive anyway. |
| 22:29:56 | * | Bagder arrives and does an svn up |
| 22:30:06 | kugel | so I'm wondering how to integrate the 4th item |
| 22:30:28 | kugel | I mean the task can be closed now, as it was aimed to get the confusion out of the release |
| 22:30:40 | gevaerts | Bagder: tools/release/bins.pl still has version 3.0, but you're probably aware of that |
| 22:30:44 | Llorean | The 4th item either needs to be controlled separately (there's still a couple face buttons) or uncontrollable from the remote. |
| 22:30:52 | Bagder | gevaerts: yeps, I'll commit a 3.1 change first |
| 22:31:01 | kugel | and there's no real fix, as I think there should be a 4th item, not just thee (where suitable of course) |
| 22:31:05 | Llorean | if you tried to use what's currently DOWNINV, it'd be impossible to guess especially if you'd ever used either the left or the right one already. |
| 22:31:45 | kugel | I assume a 4th item is kinda difficult to display on the quickscreen anyway, especially with statusbar enabled? |
| 22:32:09 | Llorean | On the remote, almost certainly |
| 22:32:19 | kugel | yes, I meant on the remote |
| 22:32:19 | Llorean | It's kinda cramped for space. |
| 22:33:54 | kugel | dropping the quickscreen from the remote isn't liked I guess? It's not going to get easy, without multifont |
| 22:33:56 | Llorean | I'd say if there is a 4th option patch, it's reasonable to only have 3 controllable from some remotes if that makes more sense. |
| 22:34:31 | Llorean | Why would you drop the whole quickscreen, rather than just one option? |
| 22:34:35 | kugel | that would mean to have 4 items on the main screen, but only 3 on the remote. That's confusing too imho |
| 22:34:59 | kugel | but probably the only way |
| 22:35:10 | Llorean | You don't look at both screens at once anyway, and it's less confusing that having the remote go blank when you bring up the quickscreen. |
| 22:35:10 | * | Zagor enjoys glitch-free mp3 on clip |
| 22:35:16 | Bagder | r19569 is 3.1 |
| 22:35:18 | Llorean | Zagor: Got the buffering mostly worked out? |
| 22:35:19 | * | gevaerts thinks outside the box a bit |
| 22:35:37 | gevaerts | Who says remote quickscreen and main quickscreen need to have the same options on them? |
| 22:36:01 | Zagor | Llorean: most of it, yes. I still have an odd bug where sometimes you have to pause/unpause to get the music to start though. |
| 22:36:02 | bertrik | Zagor, a remark like that is nothing without a patch! :P |
| 22:36:17 | Zagor | bertrik: coming up |
| 22:36:27 | Llorean | Zagor: I remember running into that one too. |
| 22:36:44 | Llorean | gevaerts: I'd say it'd make more sense if they didn't, if that's doable |
| 22:36:59 | kugel | I suppose if the quickscreen is going to look differently on the remote, it could be more optimised for the buttons in that run |
| 22:37:13 | Jaykay | gevaerts: could you look through the mentioned faq-paragraph? im still not sure i did it right.... |
| 22:37:25 | kugel | like showing the options not in directions but above each other |
| 22:37:29 | gevaerts | Llorean: I mean, if you can have three options on the remote and four on the main screen, you potentially have seven quickly accessible options |
| 22:38:10 | Llorean | gevaerts: That's what I was thinking, but more along the lines of, if you want to quickscreen from the remote, you probably want playback settings, if you want them from the main unit, you may want file view to still be around, for example. |
| 22:38:27 | gevaerts | exactly, yes |
| 22:38:33 | | Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:38:46 | gevaerts | Jaykay: maybe add a link to the WhyRockbox page there as well? |
| 22:38:46 | | Join faemir [0] (n=faemir@88-106-244-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:38:59 | Zagor | ouch, still glitches on 320kbit |
| 22:39:02 | kugel | so a totally seperate quickscreen? that sounds like a good idea to mee |
| 22:39:19 | gevaerts | It's at least worth thinking about I think |
| 22:39:40 | Zagor | hmm, I need better test tracks |
| 22:39:56 | Llorean | Zagor: Does FLAC still work? |
| 22:40:06 | kugel | yea, it's the track's fault if the clip is glitching :) |
| 22:40:24 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 22:40:28 | Zagor | kugel: hehe, I didn't mean that |
| 22:41:30 | | Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:42:17 | | Join faemir [0] (n=faemir@88-106-244-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:42:59 | Jaykay | gevaerts: imo this requires a rewrite of this paragraph, im to tired to do it now :) ill look through the whole faq because i spotted some more outdated things..... |
| 22:43:11 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:43:38 | kugel | Zagor: what did you all need to change? only the watermarks? |
| 22:44:16 | | Join leachim6 [0] (i=614c84e8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5e76a3dc8897e8be) |
| 22:44:28 | leachim6 | hey |
| 22:45:08 | leachim6 | ...if I use the Apple OS, all my albums and songs display fine...but when I look at it in the Database view in rockbox, it says I have doubles of every single song |
| 22:45:14 | leachim6 | is this a known bug ? |
| 22:45:41 | kugel | Llorean: btw: to show that I actually care about remotes, I think I did a good job when optmising the pitchscreen for the remotes/small screen (which was 1 goal when viewport'ifying the pitchscreen), didn't I? |
| 22:46:01 | Llorean | Dunno, don't use that screen. |
| 22:46:10 | kugel | ah ok |
| 22:46:11 | Zagor | kugel: yes, only the watermarks. |
| 22:46:24 | kugel | Zagor: uhm..not good |
| 22:46:41 | kugel | as that probably doesn't help to get mp3 playing on a fuze/e200v2 |
| 22:46:57 | Zagor | how much ram does they have? |
| 22:47:03 | kugel | 8 |
| 22:47:10 | leachim6 | mb or kb ? |
| 22:47:17 | kugel | even though the free audio buffer doesn't quite match with rockbox.map |
| 22:47:17 | Zagor | and you get the same skipping as on svn clip? |
| 22:47:41 | kugel | I wouldn't call it skipping, rather reboot upon starting playback :S |
| 22:48:18 | Zagor | I'll put up an early patch. you can always try. |
| 22:48:26 | leachim6 | so anyway |
| 22:48:28 | kugel | cool, will do |
| 22:48:40 | leachim6 | is there a way I can delete my database all together |
| 22:48:41 | leachim6 | and start from new |
| 22:48:51 | Llorean | leachim6: "initialize now" should delete it |
| 22:48:59 | Llorean | If you really want to do it the manual way, delete all the .tcd files in /.rockbox |
| 22:49:02 | | Quit faemir (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:50:28 | leachim6 | database is being retarded... |
| 22:50:35 | leachim6 | no...I'm sorry |
| 22:50:36 | kugel | Llorean: sorry if I was trying to rush it in, it's just that it's a major problem in the quickscreen to me. But let's forget about it, it'll get a better fix after the release |
| 22:50:41 | leachim6 | Apple is being retarded |
| 22:50:47 | leachim6 | by making the stupid db in the first place |
| 22:51:11 | kugel | what database are you talking about? |
| 22:51:22 | leachim6 | the database feature of rockbox |
| 22:51:32 | leachim6 | the ability of it to read the iPod db |
| 22:51:34 | | Quit Jaykay ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]") |
| 22:51:43 | gevaerts | It doesn't |
| 22:51:43 | Llorean | No, the database feature of Rockbox doesn't read the apple one. |
| 22:51:50 | Llorean | It has nothing to do with it. We create our own database and read it. |
| 22:51:56 | leachim6 | right...sorry |
| 22:51:57 | leachim6 | my bad |
| 22:52:09 | leachim6 | I meant the ability of it to decipher the apple file-naming scheme |
| 22:52:18 | Bagder | do we have rbutil builds around ready for 3.1? |
| 22:52:27 | pixelma | it doesn't read the Itunes db and if you don't want to listen to your songs in the Apple firmware you are perfectly fine just copy-pasting your songs to the device |
| 22:52:30 | kugel | Zagor: the database tool compiles now? |
| 22:52:46 | leachim6 | pixelma yeah but I like to use the apple firmware from time to time |
| 22:52:53 | kugel | how about putting the tagcache into a plugin (the database browser remains in the core)? |
| 22:53:00 | gevaerts | Bagder: I think so. bluebrother and domonoky posted a few links a few days ago |
| 22:53:09 | leachim6 | mainly because rockbox does not as of yet support lyrics |
| 22:53:11 | leachim6 | at least emedded ones |
| 22:53:30 | Zagor | kugel: yes it does. I haven't verified how well it works though. |
| 22:53:57 | Zagor | the songdb patch is an improvement of the database tool |
| 22:54:00 | Bagder | zips done... |
| 22:54:23 | | Join gregzx [0] (n=chatzill@dsd26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 22:54:27 | leachim6 | any significant changes in 3.1 ? |
| 22:54:29 | leachim6 | should I upgrade ? |
| 22:54:35 | gevaerts | zips done here too :) |
| 22:54:43 | kugel | Zagor: I mean, wouldn't it be worthwhile to put the database creation stuff outside of the core and only keep the reader in? |
| 22:54:52 | gevaerts | leachim6: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseNotes31 |
| 22:54:57 | leachim6 | thanks |
| 22:54:59 | kugel | as far is I understood tagcache and tagtree are already pretty much seperated |
| 22:55:07 | leachim6 | rockbox has come so far in such a short time |
| 22:55:17 | leachim6 | I remember last january it wasn't even able to play sound |
| 22:55:24 | Zagor | kugel: I haven't really looked into the code that much |
| 22:55:28 | leachim6 | is rockbox going to be participating in SoC ? |
| 22:56:33 | gevaerts | leachim6: maybe on your specific model, but rockbox itself is a lot older than that |
| 22:56:43 | leachim6 | right |
| 22:56:44 | kugel | leachim6: what target are you talking about when you say it couldn't play sound last january? |
| 22:56:46 | leachim6 | on the iPod 5g I mean |
| 22:56:49 | | Join faemir [0] (n=faemir@88-106-244-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:56:53 | leachim6 | I should have specified |
| 22:57:00 | kugel | uhm, that can play music a lot longer |
| 22:57:11 | Bagder | gevaerts: did the fonts zip build for you? |
| 22:57:27 | gevaerts | Bagder: no |
| 22:57:46 | pixelma | kugel: wouldn't that mean disk spin ups when browsing the database? |
| 22:57:53 | Bagder | hm right, that fix was only done in trunk... |
| 22:58:21 | Llorean | pixelma: No, browsing would still be in core, building would be in a plugin. |
| 22:58:36 | kugel | pixelma: I mean only to move the creation tool into a plugin |
| 22:58:50 | kugel | reading the database remains in the core |
| 22:59:02 | leachim6 | kugel: what would the advantage of that be ? |
| 22:59:04 | pixelma | misunderstood then, but how about auto-update and the liek? |
| 22:59:08 | | Quit Slack_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:59:12 | pixelma | *like |
| 22:59:14 | kugel | leachim6: binsize |
| 22:59:18 | leachim6 | ...I like the integration the db has now |
| 22:59:28 | Llorean | pixelma: We can do background plugins, I think it'd work as long as you didn't want to use another plugin while it was running. |
| 22:59:37 | leachim6 | I wouldn't mind if some of the advanced audio settings were abstracted to plugins |
| 22:59:53 | | Join Slack_ [0] (n=brett@12-218-63-169.client.mchsi.com) |
| 22:59:54 | leachim6 | but database is a HUGE feature |
| 22:59:55 | kugel | pixelma: auto-update doesn't quite work as it should anyway, does it? |
| 22:59:56 | Llorean | leachim6: I doubt it would be done if it couldn't be done transparently to the user. |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:02 | leachim6 | kugel: not at all |
| 23:00:04 | kugel | i mean it doesn't detect deleted songs afaik |
| 23:00:11 | leachim6 | kugel: very true |
| 23:00:17 | Llorean | kugel: It detects deleted songs. |
| 23:00:23 | leachim6 | I just had to delete the db and start again |
| 23:00:27 | leachim6 | because I had doubles and triples |
| 23:00:27 | Llorean | kugel: It doesn't detect modified tags. |
| 23:00:31 | pixelma | I think it does if dircache and database in RAM is enabled |
| 23:00:38 | kugel | the auto update too? I thought it doesn't do that for performance reason |
| 23:01:20 | | Quit Slack_ (Client Quit) |
| 23:01:26 | Llorean | Either way, couldn't a plugin auto-update just as easily as the core? |
| 23:01:28 | leachim6 | when updating rockbox |
| 23:01:33 | leachim6 | should I use the apple OS or rockbox ? |
| 23:01:36 | leachim6 | does it make a difference |
| 23:01:39 | leachim6 | ? |
| 23:01:53 | kugel | Llorean: I suppose yes, but you couldn't do a battery bench with it enabled |
| 23:01:54 | Llorean | leachim6: Rockbox doesn't have USB on the iPod, so you're stuck using the Apple OS right now anyway |
| 23:02:11 | kugel | and a plugin that always runs isn't really worth it |
| 23:02:15 | leachim6 | leachim6: is that planned ? |
| 23:02:21 | Llorean | kugel: You couldn't do a battery bench while the database is updating. This would be true without automation too |
| 23:02:21 | leachim6 | ...I just talked to myself...great |
| 23:02:40 | leachim6 | Llorean: are there any plans to make a version of rockbox available for the iPod touch ? |
| 23:02:44 | leachim6 | I wouldn't think so... |
| 23:02:56 | Llorean | leachim6: They aren't planned. They happen if people do the work, nobody's doing it. |
| 23:03:16 | leachim6 | ...well...I don't see an advantage to that...do you ? |
| 23:03:26 | Llorean | kugel: It wouldn't have to always run. It would stop when the update is done, and re-run when an update is needed. Auto-update would just be a background update called by the core instead of by the user. |
| 23:03:27 | leachim6 | rockbox was created because the features of the players were insufficient |
| 23:03:43 | leachim6 | the iPod touch OS is badassin enough as it is ? |
| 23:03:45 | leachim6 | </opinion> |
| 23:04:00 | krazykit | leachim6, it has nothing to do with "advantages", but everything to do with "does somebody want it enough to do the hard work of getting it to run" |
| 23:04:08 | leachim6 | true... |
| 23:04:09 | Llorean | leachim6: The iPod Touch music player lacks most of the features of rockbox, but discussing it is irrelevant. |
| 23:04:22 | kugel | Llorean: Are we talking about the same thing? There's "update now" and "auto update", I'm talking about the latter one |
| 23:04:23 | leachim6 | Llorean: yeah, but there is third-party software to make up for it |
| 23:04:39 | kugel | and I thought "auto update" is always running, not just sometimes |
| 23:04:40 | Llorean | kugel: Think about it. "Auto update" is basically an "update now" that happens under certain conditions. |
| 23:04:51 | leachim6 | ...y'know...this conversation isn't even relevant at all...nevermind |
| 23:04:53 | Llorean | It may always be running now, but there's no reason it needs to be always running. |
| 23:05:04 | leachim6 | the little cd in the top-right corner means what ? |
| 23:05:08 | leachim6 | the db is updating in the bg ? |
| 23:05:16 | Llorean | leachim6: It means the disk is being accessed, that's all |
| 23:05:23 | leachim6 | ohh |
| 23:05:31 | Llorean | kugel: Since we are the OS, we know when files have been moved, etc, as well as knowing when USB has happened. |
| 23:05:35 | kugel | I gues it's worth a try at least |
| 23:06:02 | leachim6 | is anyone working on reading embedded albumart in rockbox ? |
| 23:07:30 | kugel | I don't think so |
| 23:08:10 | Llorean | jpeg album art needs to be done first. |
| 23:08:18 | | Join Slack_ [0] (n=brett@12-218-63-169.client.mchsi.com) |
| 23:10:42 | Bagder | rbutil 1.0.8 binaries uploaded |
| 23:12:09 | leachim6 | so....pictureflow is just a glorified slideshow ? |
| 23:12:13 | leachim6 | you can't get to the music through it |
| 23:12:16 | leachim6 | just look at the albums |
| 23:12:33 | gevaerts | Should RockboxUtility be updated to point to 1.0.8? |
| 23:12:47 | * | gevaerts means the wiki page of that name |
| 23:12:58 | Bagder | yes, the release is pending |
| 23:14:06 | Bagder | I'm holding on the release announcement mail just to give the download mirrors more time to mirror the bins |
| 23:14:35 | kugel | Zagor: you add 1.5 to an int? |
| 23:14:42 | | Join onlysoaa [0] (n=Soaa@dsl-141-39.aei.ca) |
| 23:14:46 | Llorean | leachim6: That's why it's in the "Demos" category, yes. |
| 23:15:06 | gevaerts | Bagder: do you have URLs for the rbutil binaries handy? |
| 23:15:22 | leachim6 | Llorean: to be fair...is is nice to showuff with |
| 23:15:28 | Bagder | gevaerts: exactly like the 1.0.7 ones but with 1.0.8 |
| 23:15:42 | leachim6 | is anyone working on lyric support for RB ? |
| 23:15:46 | gevaerts | Bagder: except for the one "b" I guess? |
| 23:15:47 | Llorean | leachim6: Just like anything, unless someone shows up and does the work it won't get improved. |
| 23:15:58 | leachim6 | no I mean...in here right now |
| 23:16:01 | Bagder | ah yes, the 'b' is not there |
| 23:16:32 | Llorean | leachim6: I was more talking about pictureflow. |
| 23:16:33 | Bagder | and we have no 64bit linux rbutil 1.0.8 yet |
| 23:17:15 | | Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 23:17:15 | kugel | Zagor: do you think the calculation is needed at all for flash? I assume you can safely hardcode a very low watermark for those |
| 23:17:22 | Llorean | leachim6: Most things that people have actually done any work on beyond a certain point get posted to the patch tracker. You can check there for things |
| 23:17:38 | leachim6 | link ? |
| 23:17:45 | Llorean | "Patches" on every page of the site. |
| 23:18:04 | leachim6 | ahh |
| 23:18:50 | gevaerts | Bagder: done (but obviously not tested very hard, as the mirrors aren't there yet) |
| 23:18:51 | linuxstb | What do others think about making rbutil for windows available as a .exe download, rather than a .zip? The .exe is already compressed, so the size different is negligible - it just adds an extra step for the user. |
| 23:19:25 | scorche|sh | i would prefer that, yes |
| 23:19:38 | kugel | hm, no, it's better to caluclate one |
| 23:19:40 | | Quit Horscht ("Snak 5.3.3 Unregistered copy. Evaluation period is over. Program will now quit. Thanks for using Snak.") |
| 23:20:14 | Bagder | linuxstb: I agree, a zip with a single compressed exe inside seems pointless |
| 23:21:49 | gevaerts | How do you build rbutil statically? |
| 23:22:41 | bertrik | hm, I'm not getting any sound at all playing an mp3 with the watermark patch on a 1GB clip |
| 23:23:22 | Llorean | bertrik: Pause and resume |
| 23:23:46 | bertrik | didn't have an effect |
| 23:24:37 | Zagor | kugel: even on flash, we want a little margin. and the margin differs a *lot* between wav and 32kbit mp3. |
| 23:25:08 | kugel | yea, I already came to that conclusion :) |
| 23:25:09 | Zagor | bertrik: odd |
| 23:25:34 | kugel | bertrik: sounds like what I experience on my fuze (it doesn't always reboot, sometimes just refuse to play) |
| 23:26:02 | Zagor | bertrik: does your "view buffering thread" show anything strange? |
| 23:26:46 | bertrik | I'll do a make clean and revert any other (probably unrelated) patches and try again |
| 23:26:52 | | Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 23:27:08 | * | kugel waits for his clip to arrive |
| 23:28:07 | Llorean | Zagor: "last file in the buffer" meaning "previous file played" or "the last file buffered"? |
| 23:28:18 | Llorean | "the file at the end of the buffer" rather. |
| 23:28:34 | Zagor | yes, "the file at the end of the buffer" |
| 23:28:53 | Llorean | I can see that as being fairly problematic with mixed playlists. |
| 23:28:59 | Zagor | why? |
| 23:29:11 | Llorean | Well, a 770kbps FLAC followed by a 128kbps MP3? |
| 23:29:32 | kugel | it's calulating the watermark using the bitrate of the very last file |
| 23:29:44 | kugel | no matter of which format that is |
| 23:29:54 | Zagor | it is the last file that needs the watermark, the others are already in the buffer |
| 23:30:19 | kugel | Zagor: I just wonder how vbr proof that is |
| 23:30:22 | gevaerts | Won't that go wrong with a very short very low bitrate file at the end of the buffer, followed (in the playlist) by a 24/96 wav? |
| 23:30:27 | | Join Hillshum [0] (n=chatzill@75-165-241-153.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:30:49 | kugel | why? |
| 23:31:04 | Llorean | I think I got my example backward. |
| 23:31:12 | Zagor | gevaerts: as soon as the 24/96 is loaded the watermark is recalculated |
| 23:31:15 | Llorean | But I think either way it's okay. |
| 23:31:50 | bertrik | Zagor, mp3 playback seems to work ok now, after pausing/resuming |
| 23:31:58 | Zagor | bertrik: nice |
| 23:32:10 | gevaerts | Zagor: can't that be too late in some cases? |
| 23:32:17 | Llorean | But if a small portion of the last file is in the buffer, you'd have a bad estimate of how many seconds of audio remained. If the prior file was higher bitrate you might have less seconds than you think, right? |
| 23:32:52 | Llorean | Like, if you have a 770kbps FLAC and then 0.2 seconds of MP3 and you need 2 seconds for spin up and seek, don't you end up with about 0.7 seconds of actual audio before you start rebuffering? |
| 23:33:02 | Zagor | Llorean: true. total and buffered length of the last file should be checked |
| 23:33:12 | Llorean | That's what I was trying to say, only badly. |
| 23:33:13 | bertrik | I do notice some skipping/stuttering now |
| 23:33:40 | Zagor | bertrik: yes I got some too after a while. it came and went in a strange way. |
| 23:36:45 | kugel | anyone want me to build a 64bit linux rbutil build? |
| 23:37:37 | gevaerts | kugel: you know how to build statically? |
| 23:37:43 | Zagor | flac works fine btw |
| 23:38:27 | kugel | gevaerts: it's mentioned here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtilityDevelopment#How_To_Compile |
| 23:38:57 | | Join itcheg [0] (i=62db4767@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c08ede23db272f8c) |
| 23:41:35 | linuxstb | Anyone know why the rbutil version numbers are prefixed with "m" in some places, and "v" in others? |
| 23:42:06 | amiconn | Bagder: Did you bump the flash image version in the plugins and the manual before starting the 3.1 builds? Or is the final build not yet running? |
| 23:42:28 | gevaerts | kugel: I won't bother I think. I don't feel like building Qt |
| 23:42:31 | Bagder | I didn't, and the builds are already done pretty much... |
| 23:42:48 | gevaerts | amiconn: I changed 3.0.1 to 3.1 in the manual |
| 23:43:07 | * | gevaerts isn't sure that this is what's being talked about |
| 23:43:14 | amiconn | I'm not referring to the rockbox version, but to the flash image version |
| 23:43:24 | kugel | gevaerts: yea, I just noticed that I haven't built qt at all, so this needs to wait |
| 23:43:33 | amiconn | The ones with the 3.0.1 release are v2 |
| 23:44:45 | amiconn | The version is compared whenever you flash an .ucl, and a message is displayed if it's not the latest |
| 23:45:04 | amiconn | This means that rockbox_flash.rock needs to know which is the latest |
| 23:45:10 | gevaerts | ok |
| 23:45:40 | gevaerts | At least we have more things right than for 3.0. At this rate 3.2 will be perfect :) |
| 23:46:57 | amiconn | *If* we want new flash images, they need to be rebuilt. The ones currently available for download contain rockbox 3.0.1, so if you changed the manual to state 3.1 ... |
| 23:47:53 | amiconn | And new flash images mean bumping the version, hence a rebuild of the release for archos |
| 23:47:54 | gevaerts | We could just change the manual and rebuild. |
| 23:48:01 | amiconn | This is in fact a hen-and- |
| 23:49:05 | Hillshum | chick? |
| 23:49:10 | amiconn | egg problem, as bumping the version in svn means that the next build will have a rockbox_flash that complains about an outdated flash image, while building the flash image requires the release .uclk |
| 23:49:32 | | Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") |
| 23:49:39 | amiconn | That's why I didn't do it in advance, but wanted to wait to the last minute, which is now over :\ |
| 23:51:17 | | Join Acky [0] (n=omgwtfbb@cpc1-stok5-0-0-cust202.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:51:47 | Bagder | voices and manuals are now being copied over |
| 23:55:15 | | Quit tyfoo2 ("Carpe diem") |
| 23:56:56 | gevaerts | At least one mirror has the new rbutil now |
| 23:57:30 | amiconn | Suggestions? |
| 23:57:31 | Bagder | I'll mail in 2 minutes to get the release date right ;-) |
| 23:58:51 | | Part onlysoaa |
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