#rockbox 2008-12-25

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#rockbox log for 2008-12-25

00:02:49		Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
00:15:43		Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
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00:34:58		Join Slack_ [0] (n=brett@12-218-63-169.client.mchsi.com)
00:36:27		Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net)
00:38:53		Quit daurnimator ("Cyas later...")
00:41:46		Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
00:43:49	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:46:33	Zagor	jhMikeS: can you explain why pcmbuf_unplayed_bytes is much lower than pcmbuf_get_bufsize() - pcmbuf_free() ?
00:47:09		Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection)
00:48:47		Join kugel [0] (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/kugel)
00:48:55	Zagor	I'm testing with a smaller pcmbuf on flash targets, but end up with too much boost because pcmbuf_unplayed_bytes hovers around 40% of pcmbuf_size, wich triggers pcmbuf_under_watermark() and thus cpu_boost()
00:49:01	toffe82	rbutilqt v1.08 is not working ? it says missing mingw10.dll reinstall ??l
00:49:32	toffe82	on windows
00:50:25		Quit bertrik (Remote closed the connection)
00:50:58	kugel	Zagor: why only on flash? pcmbuf gets data from ram, which is not really dependent on flash/disk (I'd rather say this is worth more on disk, since the pcm contains the least "effictive" data)
00:51:10	kugel	or am I wrong?
00:52:19	Zagor	kugel: I like to limit the number of variables, so I'm starting with flash.
00:52:25		Part onlysoaa
00:52:29		Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=BHSPitLa@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey)
00:52:29	kugel	ah, that makes sense :)
00:52:30	jhMikeS	Zagor: Not offhand. It might have to do with chunk sizes?
00:52:41		Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
00:52:55		Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:53:16		Quit AndyIL (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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00:54:57		Quit ender` (" If the hero claims he wishes to confess in public or to me personally, I will remind him that a notarized deposition will s")
00:55:24		Join gartral [0] (n=Gareth@adsl-75-33-70-77.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net)
00:55:31	kugel	"Build should have been done 10 minutes ago" something seems wrong
00:55:58	Zagor	toffe82: I've seem some such reports. try to find the dll and copy/download it to the rbutilqt dir
00:56:21	*	jhMikeS regularly hangs the builds (somehow).
00:56:27	gartral	ummm, what is mingwm10.dll, and why is rbutil distributed without it?
00:59:41		Join Bagder [241] (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder)
00:59:53	Zagor	I think the proper question rather is "why does rbutilqt.exe require it". as far as I know previous versions didn't.
01:00
01:00:29	gartral	your right
01:00:58	gartral	i took a screenshot of the error box, anyone a good photobin?
01:01:05	bertrik	I get the same here under vista, 1.0.7 runs fine but 1.0.8 complains about the missing dll
01:01:06	gartral	anyone know*
01:01:35	gartral	i get it under a hybridised win xp
01:02:23	bertrik	1.0.8 is also quite a big bigger than 1.0.7: about 3.3 MB vs. 4.4 MB
01:02:53	gartral	ive noticed that, but in my mind "eh, new file, has more stuff"
01:03:49	gartral	[dangit, havent had coffee] file version*
01:04:22	gartral	i have a theory as too how this happened..
01:08:46	gartral	judging by the lack of talk, i seem doubtful my theory stirred any interest >.>
01:09:55	Zagor	uh, you never wrote it
01:12:18		Nick JdGordon\|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:12:54	gartral	>.< [blames firewall blocking irc] someone with the ming desktop manager tryed compiling this rbutil, and it ended up thinking it needed that particular window managers resources to display at all
01:13:34	Zagor	there's a "ming desktop manager"?
01:13:50	gartral	erm, window manager, thankyou
01:14:12	gartral	and yes, here, ill get the project page, with your permisions
01:15:44	gartral	http://sourceforge.net/projects/xming/
01:16:24	krazykit	mingw is not the same as xming
01:16:38	gartral	ohh.. ok
01:16:54	gartral	like i said, i havent had any coffee yet, my brain aint working
01:17:05	gartral	rigt*
01:19:07	Zagor	apparently gcc flag -mthreads causes the inclusion of this DLL. http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2008-08/msg01207.html
01:26:21		Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
01:31:04	toffe82	it looks like there is a problem to compile it too, it doesn't find the ressource file
01:31:28	soap	saratoga, I don't use it - so I don't know if anything in SVN has changed the functionality of the IAP patch.
01:31:48	soap	Did I just say IAP patch? ATM machine? Oh well. Merry Christmas all.
01:34:40	kugel	lol
01:34:55	kugel	"doppelt gemoppelt", as we'd say here :)
01:37:20	kugel	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DeLaRue_ATM_Crash.jpg
01:38:21	kugel	sorry, wrong channel :/
01:38:35	liiwi	bsod is always a fun sight!
01:46:45	gartral	what caused?
01:47:51	saratoga	soap: well people seem to be reporting success with it, so I think it should go in unless it breaks something else
01:48:08	Zagor	jhMikeS: with a buffer size of 176400 (1 second) pcmbuf_unplayed_bytes is 69120 bytes every time pcmbuf_under_watermark() runs. that's PCMBUF_TARGET_CHUNK*2 + 0xe00. I can't make any sense of it.
01:48:34	soap	yes, I have seen no breakage, I use it as my every-day build, but do not have an accessory.
01:48:43	Zagor	and during this, the audio thread debug screen shows pcm buffer is constantly 90% full
01:49:09	soap	and as we are as far away from 3.2 as we can possibly get - there is lots of time to fix a flub.
01:51:23		Join Llor_Phone [0] (n=Llorean@ppp-70-132-143-243.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)
01:52:20	Llor_Phone	Ipod accessory support would also make a good new feature for the 3.2 changelog
01:52:32	Llor_Phone	Nice to get one in now
01:53:16	saratoga	soap: the current patch is synced then?
01:54:15	soap	appears to be.
01:54:21	soap	last I checked, one sec
01:54:51	soap	as of 19534 it was.
01:55:21	Llor_Phone	Speaking of release, anyone thought about what might prompt major versio number changes?
01:55:41	soap	Not going to put this in the forum thread as it will likely only last another hour or two - but http://www.ejectit.com/ has iRiver H10 20GB players for say.
01:55:44	soap	sale even.
01:55:58		Join advcomp2019_ [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
01:56:11	Llor_Phone	I've thought maybe when we add new archetypes, like when we "support" AMS or TCC
01:56:12		Join itcheg [0] (i=62db4767@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ad2f2ae64b15259c)
01:57:17	Zagor	Llor_Phone: I don't think new targets is enough to bump the major number. a major shift in capabilities/architecture is a better reason.
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01:59:22	*	gartral wishes he had the money for this
01:59:48	saratoga	SWCODEC was a good reason for a verion bump
02:00
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02:00:03	soap	What "major" increase in capability is possible with current design goals? Rockbox-as-app?
02:00:04	saratoga	probably be a while before theres one quite that big
02:00:04	*	gartral agrees with saratoga
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02:00:16	Llor_Phone	SWCODEC was, but I don't foresee too many other large changes.
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02:00:35	gartral	the final version of mpeg player, mabey?
02:00:38	Llor_Phone	Meanwhile new SOCs tha bring in categories of players are pretty major
02:00:38	Zagor	soap: I don't know. we'll find out when/if that happens.
02:01:01		Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@5ac93abb.bb.sky.com)
02:01:04	Llor_Phone	I'm not saying every new player.
02:01:04	Zagor	but I'll be perfectly happy even if we never reach 4.0
02:01:29	Llor_Phone	Just a way to indicate jumps in supported hardware ranges
02:01:52	gartral	why are we worring about 4.0?!?, were not even working on 3.4....
02:02:11	soap	navel-gazing is not w/o its place.
02:02:18	Llor_Phone	gartral: you seem to have mised the point
02:02:34	gartral	probably.... im not very with it today
02:02:48	Llor_Phone	Major version number changes can happen sequentially without minor version changes anyway
02:03:11	Llor_Phone	But you need to know why you might change it.
02:03:25	Llor_Phone	What prompted 1.x to 2.x?
02:03:27	JdGordon	new targets isnt a good reason for a version bump...
02:04:08	soap	he never said "new targets" - he said "new architectures"
02:05:09	JdGordon	even then
02:05:25		Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
02:05:38	Llor_Phone	I just think users expect major version to change over time.
02:05:40	JdGordon	a major version bump implies lots of big changes to everytinhg... a new arch doesnt touch code elsewhere
02:05:54	Llor_Phone	And version numbers are artificial and for users anyway
02:06:03	JdGordon	yeah
02:06:15	Llor_Phone	A major version implies a significant change.
02:07:04	Llor_Phone	A new SoC often indicates several new ports and a degree of ease of porting to others.
02:07:27	JdGordon	but no change to everyone else
02:08:00	gartral	so just wondering, is anyone working on the rbutil problem, or have a link to this missing resource too quell its dependency?
02:08:22	Llor_Phone	3.0 brought little change to HWCODEC
02:08:45	JdGordon	it brought heaps more... but that was more because it took 3 years
02:08:50	soap	If the trend continues that Rockbox does not run on currently available hardware AND the addition of a new architecture adds support for multiple choices in current players, then I think a major revision number would be important more as a PR move than anything else.
02:08:54	JdGordon	but yeah, version numbers are silly
02:09:09	Llor_Phone	JdGordon but swcodec was what prompted the major v change
02:09:37		Quit bertrik (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:09:42	Llor_Phone	I think as long as major numbers communicate something they're good
02:10:02	Llor_Phone	For many linuxes they mean very little in overall change.
02:10:15	Zagor	major numbers communicate major changes
02:10:46	Zagor	just because some people use major version as PR gimmicks doesn't mean we should
02:11:00	Llor_Phone	It is a major change to the range of hardware we support. that is significant.
02:11:16	gartral	hey, i found how to remove the dependency problem
02:11:19	Llor_Phone	We're a music player
02:11:22	Zagor	Llor_Phone: I disagree
02:11:31	gartral	http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/2006-08/thread00942-0.html
02:11:40	Zagor	if we port the current rockbox to 50 new targets, it's still the current rockbox
02:11:49	Llor_Phone	Other than adding more formats or a new UI, what CAN we add that's major version worthy?
02:12:22	JdGordon	another new playback engine :)
02:12:34	Zagor	I don't know. And I don't care. I don't see a major version as a goal in itself.
02:12:36	gartral	starting to work on mpeg player, or adding the abilty too scals and reformat images for the bg in real time?
02:12:44		Quit ZincAlloy ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
02:12:52	Llor_Phone	I don't see why the major version shouldn't reflect the capabilities of the source rather than simply what the UI looks like.
02:13:03	JdGordon	gartral: mpegplayer isnt high priority..
02:13:12	Zagor	I think the most realistic candidate for major version bump would probably be a full GUI replacement.
02:13:13	JdGordon	and its certainly not a mian part of rockbox...
02:13:20	gartral	i know, but im running low on ideas :)
02:13:38	gartral	and it is somthing i do use
02:14:00		Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon_ (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02:14:04		Nick JdGordon_ is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02:14:13	soap	I didn't think Llorean was suggesting it was a goal unto itself, but that if you can't define what makes a version number why use one at all? I assume Zagor's position is "increment it per release and if a major number is warranted Rockbox will know when it gets there"?
02:14:57	Zagor	soap: exactly
02:16:11	Llor_Phone	Did I miss why 1.x went to 2.x
02:16:21	Llor_Phone	I'm on a very limited client.
02:17:53	gartral	SWCODEC i do belive
02:18:08	Llor_Phone	No, that was 2.x to 3.x
02:18:14	gartral	oop
02:20:05		Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
02:20:06	Zagor	as far as I remember there was no major architectural change in 2.x. I think we bumped it to separate it from the "beta" impression that 1.x had
02:20:41		Quit culture (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:21:21	Llor_Phone	I think "stable" support for an archetype is something pretty major. But I really am not to attached to this specifically.
02:22:03	Llor_Phone	I just think that A) major should change sometimes so it doesn't look like we're just maintaining
02:22:15	*	gartral wishes his computer wouldnt overheat when trying to build any code
02:22:22	gartral	gah, wrong chat
02:22:26	Llor_Phone	B) we should know beforehand what kind of conditions prompt it
02:23:31	Zagor	Llor_Phone: I am firmly against bumping major version "so it doesn't look like we're just maintaining"
02:24:13	Zagor	and I also don't think we need to define a line beforehand. it's a discussion we can have when someone feels a major bump should be done.
02:24:25	gartral	yea, it deffinatly needs a reason to change
02:24:35	Llor_Phone	Zagor: I think 3.17 looks bad to users
02:24:39	saratoga	yeah i don't see a reason to leave 3.x unless we change something major about how rockbox works
02:24:41	Zagor	Llor_Phone: I don't
02:24:46		Join itcheg [0] (i=62db4767@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c776979acf5ea27d)
02:24:53	Llor_Phone	And we release with version numbers explicitly as PR anyway.
02:25:46	Zagor	no. releases are a safe fallback in case a daily has bad bugs.
02:26:01	_Auron_	the number 3.17 doesn't look bad.. what would look bad is something like 3.1.2.05 or something
02:26:08	Zagor	we don't just pack up a daily and call it 3.1
02:26:10	Llor_Phone	I said With version numbers.
02:26:26	Llor_Phone	We could just do a thre month backup by revision otherwise
02:26:52	Zagor	Llor_Phone: yes, but we wouldn't know which revision to fall back to. and our users definitely wouldn't know.
02:27:04	Llor_Phone	You miss my point.
02:27:26	Llor_Phone	We could've release r19556 stable binaries
02:27:32	Llor_Phone	Instead of 3.1
02:27:38	saratoga	they're not the same
02:27:49	saratoga	we don't fork and release
02:27:53	Llor_Phone	I'm talking labeling
02:28:02	Llor_Phone	We could still fork, etc
02:28:04	saratoga	theres parallel development, so releases don't corrispond to single svn revisions
02:28:10	Zagor	indeed we could, but then we'd have to spend even more time educating users
02:28:28	saratoga	ok i'm putting in the accessory patch
02:28:30	Llor_Phone	Comits to the fork increment R stil, don't they?
02:28:36	saratoga	sure
02:28:46	Llor_Phone	So, they do.
02:28:49		Quit _rossy_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]")
02:28:57		Quit Bagder (Connection timed out)
02:29:01	JdGordon	Llor_Phone: wouldnt this discussion be better in feb before we talk about 3.2 to decide if anything major changed?
02:29:08	JdGordon	like soap said before
02:29:10	gartral	i have a good idea that seems pretty major, at least to me
02:29:21	saratoga	Llor_Phone: what are you trying to say?
02:29:38	Llor_Phone	JdGordon: Better to have it when there is time than at a last minute.
02:29:57	gartral	get a working usb stack for the pp5052 based SOCs
02:29:59	Llor_Phone	saratoga: the the NAME is for publicity / users
02:30:24	Llor_Phone	To users, a new selection of several players IS big.
02:30:40	JdGordon	Llor_Phone: we also dont want to go bumping the major version too often either or then people start to only use that instead of the minor releases
02:30:58	Llor_Phone	JdGordon: that's part of my point
02:31:13	Zagor	Llor_Phone: no, because it doesn't change rockbox. it only adds a few more players. existing users will be _very_ dissappointed if rockbox 4.0 is the same as 3.1 but for a few new targets.
02:31:17	Llor_Phone	I'm fishing for ideas that will increase it occasionally.
02:31:33	Llor_Phone	Not almost never, as now, and not too often.
02:31:44	Llor_Phone	The right degree of "major" changes
02:32:06	JdGordon	big optimisations? structural/internal changes? big UI improvements
02:32:24	JdGordon	the first release after the rec update would be a good candidate
02:32:35	gartral	i use daily builds near-always, unless rbutil is smegged
02:32:35	Llor_Phone	Zagor: they weren't disappointed when they thought they were going from 2.5 to 3.0 so evidence clearly contradicts that.
02:32:38	JdGordon	if that ever happens
02:32:51	Zagor	everybody accepts linux 2.6.28, so why wouldn't people accept rockbox 3.17?
02:33:24	Llor_Phone	Zagor: users know ubuntu 8.04 or Red Hat 9
02:33:28	Zagor	Llor_Phone: bad example. 2.5 to 3.0 was a huge update for everyone.
02:33:41	JdGordon	we should just do <year>.<release number> like smoe linux distros
02:33:45	Llor_Phone	Zagor: Not for most users
02:34:09	_Auron_	v2 support will be a nice bump
02:34:16	Llor_Phone	Zagor: Most were using recent dailies thinking it was 2.5.
02:34:17	gartral	in the case of ubuntu, its <year><month of release>
02:34:51	Zagor	Llor_Phone: nobody thinks a daily is the last stable release
02:34:53	JdGordon	haha! is that where the .04 and .10 comes in? /me never knew that
02:35:41	Zagor	JdGordon: that would mean changing the release number/name if it has to be pushed back. major admin headache.
02:35:42	_Auron_	makes version numbers easy though
02:35:45	Llor_Phone	Zagor: people don't realize the version is just one build
02:35:47	gartral	daily builds have almost alway been stable...
02:36:06	Zagor	Llor_Phone: you make a lot of assumptions about our users. I disagree with you on a lot of those.
02:36:08	Llor_Phone	Zagor: read the forum some time. Plenty thought they had 2.5 on their ipod
02:36:10	gartral	always, even
02:36:26	gartral	lol, ive seen that
02:36:41	Llor_Phone	Zagor: you're making assumptions. I'm talking about what our users actually say.
02:36:46	krazykit	gartral, but "stable" is being used in a different context. using it like you are is kind of confusing
02:37:12	Zagor	Llor_Phone: the forum is not our users. it's a narrow subset of our users.
02:37:36	gartral	ok, it has always operated stabily, compared with your "dedicated" stable release
02:38:07	Llor_Phone	And the other subset can actually read a changelog and won't be surprised by what features 4.0 really brings...
02:38:17	gartral	like me >.>
02:38:36	*	JdGordon thinks users dont really care about numbers and will just use whatever version rbutil or thr download page grabs
02:38:41	saratoga	i wish patches would add new files to SVN
02:39:18	gartral	saratoga: i belive the reason there seperate is so the dont break SVN, if they dont work...
02:40:06	saratoga	gartral: I don't understand
02:40:12	JdGordon	patch was around before svn ...
02:40:26		Quit Llor_Phone ("Pocket IRC (http://pocketirc.com/)")
02:41:10	saratoga	all the more reason to update it
02:41:15	gartral	or am i confuzzuled by diffs....
02:41:15	Zagor	how far have we come on logf over usb?
02:42:12	Zagor	saratoga: patches do add new files to svn. my makefile overhaul added dozens of new files.
02:42:24	Zagor	oh, you mean add as in "svn add"?
02:43:09	Zagor	svn could include an "svn patch" command that does it
02:43:20	krazykit	saratoga, like http://svn.haxx.se/dev/archive-2003-04/0164.shtml ?
02:43:53	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:47:26	saratoga	krazykit: was that ever added to svn?
02:47:32	saratoga	any patch commited
02:47:36	saratoga	anyway patch commited
02:48:15	krazykit	saratoga, i wouldn't know, it's just what google pulled up :)
02:48:23	*	kugel thinks version numbering based on the release date isn't a bad idea
02:49:10	kugel	I don't think there's major addition soon'ish which would justify bumping the major version (if it's taken as _major_ version)
02:50:14		Join gregzx [0] (n=chatzill@dro36.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
02:51:16	kugel	so, I'd propose bumping the so called major version one a year, the minor one with every release (after 3.3 there's 4.0 etc)
02:51:18		Quit gregzx (Client Quit)
02:52:31	JdGordon	how would people feel about allowing the wps to draw numbers from a .bmp strip? so you could display (for example) the clock in a different font than sysfont or the ui font?
02:52:44	JdGordon	sort of poor-mans-multifont
02:53:03	Zagor	kugel: unsurprisingly, I disagree. there are lots of better ways of making PR for ourselves than inflating our version numbers.
02:54:10	kugel	I don't feel strong about the versioning either, but I think it's better then having rockbox 3.1834
02:54:25	JdGordon	saratoga: yay! about time that got in :)
02:54:57	Zagor	if we do 1800 releases without coming up with something that gives us a reason to bump the major version, then people _should_ think we are dead!
02:55:46	JdGordon	saratoga: arg, you didnt bump the plugin version number... that needs upping if global_settings changes
02:55:53	kugel	well, given the 3 month release cycle, I'm doubtful that there'll anything really major between releases
02:55:59	JdGordon	changes in a way which isnt backwards compatible
02:56:21	kugel	maybe between anual releases, but not between each
02:56:31	Zagor	kugel: I don't see a connection between major changes and the release cycle
02:56:38	saratoga	gah
02:56:48	saratoga	stupid svn didn't pick up my fixes so theres plenty of yellow
02:56:55	saratoga	i blame the lack of svn patch
02:57:26	kugel	well, you can see a major improvement as a high number of minor improvements, but releases within 3 month will always just have a few improvements
02:57:40	JdGordon	thats not true
02:57:57	JdGordon	3 months could bring alot of big changes, just as much as it could bring none
02:58:08	saratoga	i have to run, i'll fix the warnings in half an hour
02:58:15	kugel	anyway, I just wanted to give an idea, as I said, I don't really care about the versioning (also because I'm going to run the current anyways ;) )
02:58:54	kugel	JdGordon: yea, of course
02:59:48	kugel	but between anual releases the chance for noting a big improvement or many minor ones is higher than between 3-monthly releases
02:59:52	Zagor	I think we should worry about the code for our next release rather than the code, and definitely not the version number, for a release one or more years from now.
02:59:55	*	JdGordon has no idea how to do this bmp number thing :/
03:00
03:00:29	kugel	JdGordon: rockpaint into core! ;)
03:00:38	Zagor	don't try to plan everything. just have fun. it has worked pretty well so far, hasn't it?
03:00:39	JdGordon	no....
03:00:54	JdGordon	its usually fun...
03:00:58	kugel	Zagor: that sounds like a good plan to me
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03:10:44		Quit XavierGr ()
03:11:41	kugel	JdGordon: have you had a look at the quickscreen 4th item patch?
03:12:19	kugel	I'm still thinking of also showing the 4th item on remotes (which is doable with a reasonable font), but the button situation is still messy
03:13:06	JdGordon	I havn't
03:13:37	JdGordon	if it doesnt fit then there is no need to force it on... but make sure that if its a remote button press NOT to change the top item if its not
03:15:15	kugel	it fits with the default font
03:15:59	kugel	i.e. the font cabbie uses
03:16:43	JdGordon	as a 1 line display?
03:17:28	kugel	you mean when bottom and top item are one (not two) line? yes
03:18:07	JdGordon	yeah
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03:18:58	kugel	but there's not much room, so if you're going to use a little larger font it'll look ugly
03:22:51	*	JdGordon wishes there was some way wps tokens can grab some ram to store its values that dont fit into 1 int without wasteing space if its not used
03:26:46	JdGordon	is it possible to fit 0-51, 0-320, 0-320 into 4 bytes?
03:27:06	JdGordon	340 even
03:27:20	kugel	with a union
03:27:31	kugel	(i think)
03:27:34	JdGordon	hmm.. yeah it will fit
03:28:03	kugel	you can also tell a struct how much bits a member should take
03:28:18	kugel	but I heard doing such things is rather bad performance wise
03:28:23		Quit tyfoo ("Carpe diem")
03:28:29	JdGordon	yeah, thats what I'm tihnking
03:29:08	JdGordon	this is good enough for a first attempt anyway
03:29:24	kugel	but I doubt it's noticeable, unless you have billions of such structs
03:34:00	*	JdGordon is a bit asleep...
03:34:03	JdGordon	will this work http://pastebin.ca/1293284 ?
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03:40:19	kugel	JdGordon: not sure
03:40:39	JdGordon	yeah, i tihnk its wrong... should be 22 on the top, 11 on the bottom
03:40:42	JdGordon	I tihnk :p
03:42:18	kugel	JdGordon: I was thinking this way: http://pastebin.ca/1293292
03:42:41	*	kugel is hoping pastebin got that paste
03:43:00	kugel	so sloow :/
03:43:31	JdGordon	yeah, it went through...
03:43:48	JdGordon	yeah, that would work, although i prefer doing it myself...
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04:00
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04:09:35	harryo	I checked flyspray but could find no mention of the following: upgraded e250 to 3.1 and now get invalid instruction errors doing just about anything. ideas?
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04:12:05	webguest92	Is rockbox compatible with iriver pmp 120
04:13:33	Llorean	webguest92: The list of supported devices is on the front page.
04:13:54	Llorean	harryo: How did you upgrade, and when did you last update your bootloader?
04:15:19	harryo	Llorean: thx. had 3.0 installed from scratch. just update using util, but it apparently failed so I unziped directly
04:15:37	harryo	Llorean: didn't update bootloader. should I?
04:16:32	Llorean	harryo: An outdated bootloader can cause such errors. How did you originally install. RBUtil should have no problems detecting a properly installed older Rockbox.
04:17:05	webguest92	Llorean: thanks, i checked but only other iriver devices appear; what would happen if i tried one of them on the pmp series, is it possible that it may work?
04:17:27	harryo	Llorean: original install was with RBUtil. worked OK. upgrade I just selected install of stable rockbox, not bootloader
04:17:54	harryo	Llorean: but upgrade with RBUtil seemed to have failed (no LCD fade options)
04:17:56	Llorean	webguest92: No, it's impossible it would work unless all hardware is 100% identical.
04:18:17	Llorean	harryo: "Seemed to have failed." Did RButil say it was successful?
04:18:29	Llorean	Did you check the version number?
04:18:41	harryo	Llorean: yes, but booted twice and menu didn't seem updated
04:19:38	Llorean	So the version number?
04:20:27	harryo	Llorean: version still showed 3.0
04:20:46	Llorean	Then the first goal would be figuring out why it's failing to install.
04:20:57	webguest92	Llorean: Thanks for the info; last question is whether it is likely that there will be support for th pmp 120 on the near future?
04:21:03	harryo	Llorean: trying again. ticked don't used cached copy
04:21:07	Llorean	webguest92: Only if owners of the player actually work on it.
04:21:19	Llorean	harryo: It's possible your cable's bad. It sounds like you may have corrupt files, at least.
04:21:36	Llorean	harryo: Are you using the newest version of RBUtil?
04:22:09	harryo	Llorean: 1.0.8. cable is good. can copy files no prob.
04:22:16	webguest92	Llorean: wish i could help; how would i go about that.
04:22:30	Llorean	harryo: Just because you can copy files, doesn't mean the files aren't corrupt...
04:23:08	Llorean	webguest92: See the NewPort page on the Rockbox site wiki.
04:24:08	webguest92	Llorean: thanks for everything; i'll check it out; wish me luck! & good luck to all.
04:28:18	saratoga	ugh the iap commit added crap to langs
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04:29:24	_Griphin_	Evening
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04:30:41	_Griphin_	I was curious if Rockbox would be ported to the Zune eventually?
04:30:49	Llorean	_Griphin_: Ports aren't planned
04:30:59	Llorean	They happen when interested owners of the hardware do lots, and lots, and lots of work. :)
04:31:05	_Griphin_	Yeah
04:31:23	_Griphin_	I wish I knew how to hack the Zune, it badly needs Flac support
04:32:20	_Auron_	among other things
04:32:37	Llorean	The shortcomings of the original firmware aren't really on topic here anyway.
04:33:21	saratoga	worse i mispelled my commit message
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04:34:12	_Griphin_	OK, thx fer the info
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04:34:34	QUICKSTART	Merry Christmas everyone
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04:44:47	harryo	Llorean: now cannot get RBUtil to complete. always get failure to extract (tried several times, with and without SD card installed)
04:45:48	Llorean	harryo: If rbutil won't complete, and when you copy the files manually Rockbox shows behaviour as if the files are corrupted, you should try a different USB port, different computer, different cable, or scan the filesystem.
04:45:58	saratoga	the bin size increase on archos for the iap patch is surprising, everything should have been ifdefed out on those builds
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04:46:37	harryo	Llorean: I'll try those as I can. will report back. thx
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05:00
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05:07:03	JdGordon	saratoga: you still havnt bum,ped the plugin api version...
05:10:40	harryo	Llorean: took 3 fsck's, but now upgraded. thx much!
05:13:19	saratoga	JdGordon: do I need to?
05:13:41	JdGordon	yes, you added settings into the middle of the global_settings struct
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05:31:01	JdGordon	nooooooooooooo!!! only got 16 bits to play with in the wps token value :'(
05:32:11	tried_3	just stoped by to say thank you for this great firmware... i just switched from v 2 to 3.1 and oh it rulez
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06:00
06:03:25	JdGordon	haha this works :D
06:03:38	*	JdGordon might have a semi-late xmas pressy for the WPS crowd
06:03:50	Llorean	JdGordon: Whatcha changing?
06:04:22	JdGordon	brand new feature :)
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06:05:00	Llorean	What feature though?
06:05:15		Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:05:25	JdGordon	lets you drawn a number from a bmp strip...
06:05:36	Llorean	Ah, you mentioned that earlier.
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06:06:08	JdGordon	its not quite working yet, and its crashing the sim a fair bit so might not get it good enough to hand out today though :/
06:06:55		Quit pixelma (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:07:31	Llorean	So basically, any numeric tag can be given a strip bitmap to use for its numerals?
06:07:53	JdGordon	hahaha it works :)
06:07:55	JdGordon	and yes
06:08:00	Llorean	Also a : character?
06:08:05	JdGordon	no
06:08:17	JdGordon	I need to limit it sensibly
06:08:24	Llorean	I think "times" is a sensible limit.
06:08:41	JdGordon	well the time is made of multiple tags anyway, so the : can be a seperate bmp
06:08:49	Llorean	Not "progress in a song" time.
06:08:50		Quit itcheg ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
06:09:05	JdGordon	also adding non numbers makes it more complicated, but i guess thye can be added
06:10:06	Llorean	I think the only non-number that's really needed is : so you can use it for %pc
06:10:20	Llorean	I mean, otherwise what's the point?
06:10:29	Llorean	For hour/minute/second you can already use them in a conditional with bitmaps, right?
06:10:58	JdGordon	I guess so, but currently you need 60 bmps to show the minute
06:10:59	Llorean	Or, if you can't, they could just be made into a conditional and leave out any automagic bitmap handling.
06:11:16	JdGordon	but yeah, there is no point.. just another fun thing to add
06:11:21	Llorean	No, you need 15 bitmaps, I think.
06:11:37	Llorean	(blank) through 5 in the "tens" digit, and 0-9 in the ones digit.
06:11:47	Llorean	You need 60 conditionals, but you don't need to use whole bitmaps. :)
06:11:58	JdGordon	ah yeah
06:11:58	Llorean	Well, 60 conditional steps
06:12:03	JdGordon	this is crtailny easier though :)
06:12:32	Llorean	Probably, but I think if it's something they can already do, it should offer the ability to do it someplace they can't already do it. ;)
06:13:54	JdGordon	I'm also forcing fixed width chars... which might be another reason to not add the :
06:13:55	JdGordon	?
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06:21:24	JdGordon	hehe it works :)
06:21:32	JdGordon	I have a really really bad strip to test with though
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06:22:55	Frog29	hello
06:23:20	Frog29	I'm a new user here getting a missing mingwm10.dll error on two computers
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06:24:11	advcomp2019	Frog29, i think someone else had that issue.. i would have to look in the logs again
06:24:47	Frog29	i did some research anbd i saw at some poitn a whiel ago someone else had that problem
06:24:53	Frog29	maybe the file ws not packaged
06:25:24	Frog29	right now i'm trying to ginf the dll just by itself :P
06:27:22	Frog29	yea, manually installing the dll worked
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06:27:41	Frog29	and the olver version of the rockbox utility worked)
06:29:29	JdGordon	Llorean: really bad example... http://imagebin.ca/view/8i4Iy7.html the top line is the plain text 12345 in the wps.. the 2nd line is %px (track percent complete)
06:30:21	Frog29	apparently today is not my lucky day with rockbox
06:30:30	Frog29	now it won't find my sansa
06:30:46	JdGordon	its not a v2 is it?
06:30:52	Frog29	yes i haev the right letter and product)
06:31:05	Frog29	don't beleive so, just about to double check
06:31:43	Frog29	version 01.01.18A
06:32:02	Frog29	and under usb mode it says msc and mtp so not rapshody
06:33:07	advcomp2019	are you using msc mode?
06:33:13	Frog29	yes
06:33:28	Frog29	i can access it through explorer
06:33:54	Llorean	That doesn't mean it's in MSC mode. MTP devices can be accessed through explorer too
06:34:11	Frog29	hmm last tiem i checked it was but i shall reset it
06:35:00	Frog29	changed it to it again and still same problem
06:35:28	Frog29	would it be a bad idea to use the 1.07 installer and install 3.0?
06:35:44	Frog29	then just manually update to 3.1?
06:36:02	Llorean	It's unlikely the 1.0.7 utility will find your player if 1.0.8 won't.
06:36:17	Frog29	yea
06:36:20	Frog29	just tried it :P
06:36:27	Frog29	hmmmm
06:36:44	Llorean	What drive letter is your device?
06:37:00	Frog29	on one of my computers it had found it however i had a prblem with that computer not installign it correctly - i've already debricked it once
06:37:02	Frog29	J
06:37:32	Llorean	Are you sure your cable's good?
06:37:40	Frog29	{and yes my antivirus is disabled}
06:38:00	Frog29	i have no way to know if it is, but i have been able to transfer fiels succesfully
06:38:05	Frog29	*files
06:38:16	Frog29	thanks for the help btw
06:38:19	Llorean	If it's having such problems on multiple computers, it seems likely there's some sort of hardware concern. Bad installs to the point of needing debricking aren't even really plausible if the hardware's good.
06:38:29	Frog29	hmm
06:38:36	Frog29	maybe i did something wrong, let me try again :P
06:38:44	Frog29	do ineed to update the default firmware?
06:39:07	Llorean	The original firmware version shouldn't really be a concern.
06:39:08	Frog29	i have version version 01.01.18A
06:39:12	Frog29	k
06:39:14	Frog29	brb
06:39:54	advcomp2019	Frog29, what os are you using?
06:40:30	Llorean	advcomp2019: He said he's using explorer, so it's Windows.
06:41:21	advcomp2019	Llorean, i was wondering vista or xp tho
06:41:31	Frog29	xp
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06:44:45	Frog29	ok
06:45:33	Frog29	its time for the full story - so i got a newly refurbished sansa e280, then i tried to isntall rockbox on it, got the missing dll so i used the older 1.07 isntaller did the full isntall from there
06:45:43	Frog29	gave me an eror when isntalling botolaoder
06:46:00	Frog29	restareted device and it was missing both files - rockbox and the sansa but the bootloader was wroking
06:46:10	Frog29	so i undbricked back to the firmware it came with
06:46:26	Frog29	and then on the original computer it now won't recognize the player at all when it did earlier
06:46:29	Frog29	hmmm
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06:49:50	Frog29	wierdest story ending ever - so iwent back to computer A and used 1.07 and it worked perfectly
06:49:58	Frog29	thanks for your help
06:50:15	Frog29	although i'm still curious why 1.08 refuses to work on any ocmputer
06:50:29	Frog29	and maybe the dll is not packaged
06:50:37	Llorean	the dll should be unnecessary.
06:50:44	Llorean	It was compiled wrongly it seems.
06:50:49	Frog29	k
06:50:57	Llorean	As long as the dll is present, it should still work, though.
06:51:04	Frog29	any clue one 1.07 working but not 1.08?
06:51:19	Frog29	*on
06:53:35	Llorean	My bet is still simply on sporadically working bad cable.
06:53:45	Frog29	hmmm... darn
06:53:49	Llorean	Given all your other troubles.
06:54:01	Llorean	But it's also possible 1.08 is less working than expected at the moment.
06:54:18	Frog29	k
06:55:11	Frog29	Can i try to run the isntall of rockbox from 1.08 but not the bootloader to update?
06:55:37	Frog29	aka is the firmware updated for 3.1?
06:55:56	Frog29	i mean bootloader not firmware
06:57:53	Llorean	I don't know if there's a new bootloader, but I don't think there is.
06:59:08	Frog29	uea... maybe it is a finicky cable - i just isntalled rockbox 3.1 from 1.08 - no errors
06:59:26	Frog29	although it may very well just be software - also note i was not trying to update the bootloader
07:00
07:00:23		Quit sarixe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:00:35	Frog29	thanks for your help
07:00:39	Frog29	farewell
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07:52:03	_rossy_	i just got an iriver E100 for christmas
07:52:35	_rossy_	i was wondering how far rockbox has got with it
07:52:50	_rossy_	afaik the firmware is still encrypted
07:58:07	saratoga	_rossy_: I don't think anyone started on a rockbox port to that target
07:59:58	_rossy_	yeah, theres only a info page on the wiki
08:00
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08:15:35	J-23	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverE100Internals - quality of these images is terrible ;/
08:16:17	_rossy_	yeah
08:16:46	_rossy_	ive been trying to decrypt the firmware image
08:17:19	_rossy_	ifp_decode, mi4code and irde don't work
08:19:25	saratoga	mi4code won't work since its not a PP device
08:20:10	saratoga	you'll probably need to write some new tool for whatever CPU it uses
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08:21:45	_rossy_	i think it uses a standard iriver .HEX format firmware, just with a different encryption key
08:22:42	J-23	write a BOINC software for bruteforcing it ;p
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08:24:32	JdGordon	we know what SoC it is.. but dont have datasheets for it
08:25:05	JdGordon	and the first 15 bytes of the .hex is 001122334455...ff (or something like that) but the rest is encrypted
08:25:11	_rossy_	yeah
08:25:12	JdGordon	thats as far as we got with the e100
08:25:30	_rossy_	is there any plans for continuing work on it?
08:25:30	*	JdGordon wouldnt mind rockbox on it.. good replacement for the sansa e200
08:25:50	JdGordon	well, untill either the .hex is decrypted, or we find the datasheet there isnt much that can be done
08:26:06	_rossy_	hmm
08:26:11	J-23	TCC7801?
08:26:23	saratoga	forums says its a mips chip
08:26:36	_rossy_	that's what i heard
08:27:13	_rossy_	i like the E100 a lot actually
08:27:33	_rossy_	nice big screen, built in line-in jack etc...
08:28:00	JdGordon	microSD...
08:28:07	_rossy_	that too :)
08:28:13	_rossy_	its just that the default firmware is not so great
08:28:56	J-23	bluetooth?
08:29:27	_rossy_	no, it doesnt have that
08:29:34	_rossy_	although that would be awesome
08:29:58	J-23	if there's OTG USB controller in it...
08:30:27	saratoga	everything has an OTG controller
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08:31:22	J-23	so should it be possible to attach e.g. another player to a player?
08:31:58	_rossy_	hmm, probably not on the E100, but i know the gigabeat can do that
08:32:03	saratoga	should be, though you'd probably need to make a special cable for it
08:32:41	J-23	and Rockbox drivers ;)
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09:21:49	*	amiconn wonders why the accessory patch isn't enabled for the minis
09:28:09	JdGordon	do we know the serial lines?
09:33:08	amiconn	Hmm? The PP502x ipods are all the same regarding that
09:34:06	JdGordon	probably didnt have anyone testing with it then?
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10:52:45	casainho	hello :-) Merry Christmas to everyone!!! :-)
10:53:37	casainho	I have one question: can someone please look at this build warnings and tell me what they means? http://pastebin.com/m5cc9f5ea
10:54:03	casainho	I am trying to build the bootloader for a new port...
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12:08:54	gartral	ok, i have a bg, and it causes a complete freeze, after shifting through 4-5 songs (shifting is repeatedly hitting skip and back, like compareing songs) the player, in my case an E250 v1, freezes, removeing all elements from the WPS leaving only the bg, ive been able to repeat this twice with r19584
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15:50:13	wpyh	I've enabled logf and DEBUG with the configure script, then built a simulator. I can see the logf and logfdump entries under System->Debug, but they don't seem to do/contain any information. How do I actually enable logging?
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16:11:02	kugel	wpyh: do you have #included logf.h?
16:11:37	kugel	but actually, you don't really need logf for simullators (I don't know if it actually works), since debugf is just fine
16:12:05	wpyh	hm... I have logf.h all over make.def in the build dir
16:12:23	wpyh	I didn't write my own plugin, just trying to debug the database/tagcache for FS #9093
16:12:54	wpyh	I'll try debugf
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16:20:51	kugel	wpyh: you don't need to define that in the make file
16:21:04	kugel	just in the file you want to logf, followed by the #include
16:21:10	kugel	and then enable a logf build
16:23:09	wpyh	ok, I did that, but nothing appears in System->Debug->logf . I was able to debug by commenting out #include <logf.h> and adding "#define logf debugf" though
16:23:18	wpyh	my method is primitive :p
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16:31:30	n1s	wpyh: you need to #define LOGF_ENABLE in every file you want to enable logf _before_ including logf.h
16:32:42	wpyh	the problem with FS #9093 is that when no media files are found, tc_stat.ready is false. now, I would like to ask the developers: what is the expected behaviour? my guess is that the database initialization should complete as normal and a tagcache file created as normal. is my guess correct?
16:32:51	wpyh	n1s: I didn't try that... will try :)
16:43:32	wpyh	I've been able to use n1s' method to get logf() working
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17:04:57	*	wpyh gets confused reading tagcache code...
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17:23:03	kugel	wpyh: you're not the first one :)
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17:27:46	wpyh	ah... :)
17:31:50	Lss	i left my 60% charged ipod connected to the usb for 2 days and to my horror the battery was drained when i wanted to use it......
17:32:08	Lss	anyone have an idea what actually happens?
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17:35:03	wpyh	was it running rockbox?
17:36:24	Lss	yes
17:36:35	Lss	its a 5.5g ipod
17:36:54	Lss	so it kicked into apple firmware when i first connected it
17:37:15	Lss	left it alone for 2 days and when unplugged it it showed 8% battery
17:37:41	Lss	only managed to get around 35mins of playback before it shutdown
17:38:00	wpyh	that's weird −− maybe a bad cable? but I don't think it's related to rockbox because it's not in rockbox when connected to usb
17:38:04	Lss	when i reconnected it again, it showed extremely low battery
17:38:14	Lss	i was thinking it might be an ipod thingy?
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17:38:52	Lss	anyway im testing playback battery life on flac
17:39:01	Lss	i dont see it in the list of runtime
17:39:23	wpyh	IpodRuntime page?
17:40:38	Lss	yup
17:40:51	Lss	stock 80gig ipod playing flac files
17:42:54	StuartLathrop	I have an FM preset file I would like to contribute; have registered & activated, but need write permission (per the wiki). Thanks in advance, but no hurry.
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17:51:25	pixelma	StuartLathrop is also your wiki name I guess?
17:54:59	pixelma	StuartLathrop: you should be able to edit the wiki now, no spam now! :)
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18:00:41	amiconn	Hmm, it seems we might be doing something wrong either to the pcf or some other chip in the mini g2
18:02:00	amiconn	My mini g2 didn't charge at all anymore, regardless of how I tried (loader, diskmode). Then I left it alone for ~2 weeks, which drained the battery completely (RTC time was lost)
18:02:09	amiconn	Now it charges normally again
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18:29:24	lnf3ct	does replaygain work on .cue files?
18:31:17	wpyh	on my ipod video 5.5g, if I plug in the USB cable while the player is powered off, then it will boot into RB, then reboot into the OF
18:31:26	wpyh	is there a way to make it boot straight into the OF?
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18:33:19	Lss	the hold toggle?
18:33:34	wpyh	nah, without that
18:33:46	wpyh	just by plugging in the USB cable while it's powered off
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18:37:37	wpyh	I see that some targets have this nice feature (in bootloader/main-pp.c)...
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18:48:13	linuxstb	lnf3ct: If you mean individual track gain stored in the .cue, then no. But if there's a replaygain value stored in the accompanying audio file, then Rockbox will use that.
18:48:34	lnf3ct	linuxstb, right. it's as i thought. thanks :)
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19:02:21	Indomitable	I was wondering if I could get some help regarding my "broken" ipod video 80gb with rockbox.
19:02:57	Indomitable	It dropped on the sidewalk two weeks ago and the lcd screen cracked while the hard drive itself with rockbox on it was still working. I sent it to ipodjuice.com to get the screen fixed but before I did that I tried to uninstall rockbox but didn't do the best actual process of uninstalling it and merely deleted 'rockbox.ipod' from the ipod video itself
19:03:19	Indomitable	the technician who replaced the screen said he was not able to get past the rockbox firmware which I didn't understand what he meant exactly over the phone but said I could send it back if it wasnt working.
19:03:44	Indomitable	I got it back yesterday but it would not charge and kept giving me the low battery screen when I used my computer usb port
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19:04:27	Indomitable	when I used my wallcharger it started up and I got a black rockbox screen that said could not find rockbox.ipod hold menu+select to restart then play+select for boot disk mode
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19:04:56	Indomitable	I did that and left it charging with the wallcharger but whenever I unplug it from the wallcharger it turns off
19:05:04	Indomitable	and won't power back on
19:05:53	Indomitable	I tried all of the various low battery ipod methods but I have gotten no luck and was wondering I needed to have the ipod sent back
19:06:46	Indomitable	when the ipod is pluged into the wallcharger and the apple firmware is loaded it says it is charging but even after hours of "charging" as soon as it is removed from the wallcharger it wont power back on
19:07:12	Febs_	It sounds like your battery is either defective or has reached the end of its usable lifespan.
19:07:59	Indomitable	alright
19:08:40	Febs_	The "can't find rockbox.ipod" message is a separate issue. You either do not have a Rockbox build installed or you didn't properly unzip the build to the root of your ipod.
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19:09:02	Indomitable	actually
19:09:22	Indomitable	before I sent the ipod to get it's lcd screen fixed at ipodjuice.com
19:09:34	Indomitable	I did not uninstall rockbox correctly but merely deleted rockbox.ipod
19:09:55	Indomitable	thinking it would help whoever was fixing the ipod and only apple firmware would load
19:10:52	Indomitable	I said that about a mintue before you joined Febs_
19:10:59	Indomitable	*minute
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19:15:21	Febs	So what do you want to do? Uninstall Rockbox so that the technician can service the iPod?
19:16:42	Indomitable	the technician has done that it was a broken lcd screen but everything else worked fine and I got the ipod back yesterday and have been having the charging issue.
19:17:16	Febs	Did you have the issue before?
19:17:21	Indomitable	no
19:18:02	Indomitable	I just wasn't sure if it was a problem with the fact that rockbox wasn't uninstalled properly
19:18:13	Indomitable	or if I simply need to send the ipod back to them
19:18:15	Febs	It sounds to me like you have two completely separate issues.
19:18:51	Indomitable	well the main issue is about the ipod not charging after it's lcd screen broken and was replaced by a technician
19:19:27	Febs	You can fix the rockbox.ipod problem by installing a new Rockbox build. Just download this file and unzip it to the root of the ipod: http://download.rockbox.org/release/3.1/rockbox-ipodvideo64mb-3.1.zip
19:19:41	Indomitable	the issue of rockbox.ipod not found I would assume if the ipod was charging I could simply boot the ipod in disk mode and factory restore it
19:20:10	Indomitable	I can not sadly as the laptop will not recognize the ipod
19:20:55	Febs	The charging issue is probably 1 of 3 things: (1) you broke something in the charging circuit when you dropped the ipod; (2) the technician broke something while fixing it; or (3) the battery happened to die at exactly the time you had it serviced.
19:20:56	Indomitable	the ipod will only charge with the wall charger and even after having it charge for hours as soon as it is taken off the wall charger it powers off and won't turn back on
19:21:10	Indomitable	oh
19:21:52	Febs	It's also possible that the battery and charging circuit are both fine but the battery just isn't properly connected.
19:22:12	Indomitable	I see
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19:23:45	Lss	3.1? didnt even notice it great now to see the changes
19:24:04	Febs	You could open up the ipod to check the connection. There are plenty of battery replacement guides that show you how to do that, which you can find through Google.
19:24:39	Indomitable	Ok so I would simply be checking if the connection is secure
19:25:27	Indomitable	If I have the same problem after checking should I assume I should send the ipod back and tell technician the proper way to load the apple firmware
19:26:55	Lss	is there any technical advantage of using backlight fading?
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19:28:42	Greggy	Hello, rather than rephrase my question here... I thought I'd just provide a link to the thread regarding the question I have for you all: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=19786.0
19:29:11	Febs	Indomitable: it's up to you, of course, but that's what I would probably do. Since we've gotten off topic of anything that is really Rockbox related, if you have further questions, join #rockbox-community and raise them there.
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19:30:26	Indomitable	alright thanks
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20:06:14	gregorovius	Hi. I'm using rockbox on a 5g ipod. not strictly a rockbox question, but i'm using linux, and when I plug it in it gets mounted, I think, as utf8, so accented characters show up funny. how can I configure it so it gets mounted correctly? what charset should it be?
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20:08:26	Jaykay	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9694 is a dupicate to http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9695, the "discussion" is in 9695, so the first can be closed
20:08:32	Jaykay	duplicate
20:12:44	Llorean	Jaykay: Please don't use sarcasm when commenting on tasks. It makes everything easier all around if you just stick to comments that are clear and actually meaningful/functional.
20:13:02	Llorean	Remember that a lot of people discussing tasks don't have English as a native language and may miss sarcasm entirely.
20:14:27	Jaykay	ok.... although i think the patch is quite useless..... but ill try :)
20:15:16	Llorean	If you think the patch is useless, say "I don't see a need for this patch" or similar.
20:15:28	Jaykay	ok
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20:25:55	Buschel	merry christmas!
20:33:08	gregorovius	happy festivus!
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21:28:31	Debian365	ls
21:32:17	Buschel	hi folks, i am running r19589 now and experience some strange behaviour when battery benching. my 5.5G ipod shuts off after ~1h 15min. is this a known issue? next test is playback without a running battery bench plugin.
21:32:35	Buschel	i am asking becasue i saw several changes in the powermanagement
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21:36:08	Jaykay	Buschel: what says the battery_bench.txt as reason why the bench ended?
21:36:19	Buschel	reason: power off
21:36:49	Jaykay	how much % is left?
21:37:02	Buschel	depends: 88-92%
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22:07:31	gregorovius	I can't find a way to make my linux box mount my ipod under a correct charset, so accented characters look garbled on rockbox
22:07:47	gregorovius	anybody has any hints on this?
22:08:00	gregorovius	tried messing around with HAL's preferences.fdi, but it doesn't seem to be working
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22:16:13	kugel	Unhelpful: ping
22:18:36	gregorovius	anybody, please? i've been fiddling with this all day
22:18:59	gregorovius	if I plug in my ipod to a windows computers, accented characters are garbled as well...
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22:21:08	kugel	gregorovius: what font are you using in rockbox?
22:21:29	kugel	i.e. did you make sure the fonts support the chars you're trying to display?
22:21:58	gregorovius	it's not the fonts, if I plug it into a windows computer it also displays accented characters wrong
22:22:24	gregorovius	kugel: I don't know it if's iocharset, codepage, whatnot
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22:23:26	kugel	gregorovius: just try unifont and see if it helps
22:24:01	kugel	windows uses extended ascii, and not unicode so that might be the problem in windows
22:24:06	kugel	(afaik)
22:25:17	gregorovius	kugel: unifont? I don't have any font named like that. I think fat and unicode are not meant to go together
22:26:04	kugel	unifont is in the font package available under extras on the front page
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22:27:26	gregorovius	ah, ok. no, it doesn't help at all
22:28:07	kugel	gregorovius: and if you name them correct in windows they show up properly on rockbox too (but not on linux?)
22:28:28	gregorovius	kugel: they show correctly on rockbox, haven't tried on linux
22:28:39	kugel	so where do they show up wrong?
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22:29:09	gregorovius	if I copy music from my linux box (using utf8) to my ipod, the filenames display wrong both on rockbox and on windows
22:29:11	kugel	you said "I can't find a way to make my linux box mount my ipod[...]" so you have tried linux
22:29:44	kugel	do you mount manually or how do you make sure it's utf8?
22:29:45	gregorovius	if I copy music from windows (which I don't do, normally) it displays ok on rockbox, I don't know nor care on linux, all I want is for my linux box to correctly mount my ipod
22:30:17	gregorovius	hal takes care of it, I'm guessing it's utf8, but I don't know honestly, I don't know much about this
22:31:46	kugel	what linux are you using?=
22:32:05	gregorovius	arch linux
22:32:12	*	kugel isn't sure if that's really on topic :/
22:32:55	kugel	gregorovius: hm, I have no idea how that's configurable in arch linux, but I know you can pass a codepage with -o to the mount program
22:33:05	kugel	"man mount" may help you
22:33:28	gregorovius	kugel: is it a codepage matter? or iocharset? my main problem is that I don't know what the problem is
22:33:41	kugel	no idea
22:33:51	kugel	what country are you?
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22:34:26	kugel	it's likely a codepage issue if unifont cannot display the filenames properly
22:34:38	gregorovius	argentina
22:35:13	gregorovius	do you know what's the default windows codepage?
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22:35:47	kugel	extended ascii, i.e. the first 128 chars are standard ascii, the other 128 are region dependent
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22:37:06	kugel	for unicode the first 256 chars are the same as in iso-8859-1 afaik
22:37:39	kugel	maybe windows uses a homebrewed codepage, but I don't think so as rockbox detects it properly (and rockbox default codepage is utf8)
22:39:26	kugel	gregorovius: you should probably look how you can configure automount or devices in archlinux or set a default codepage, that's all I can tell (i think linux is wrong in this case)
22:39:55	kugel	even though I've also seen weird codepage issues between windows and linux, but I didn't care to fix them enough
22:40:49	gregorovius	kugel: using 'iocharset=utf8' as a mount option did it
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22:59:14	gevaerts	Llorean: I think things like video support on the same level as audio (i.e. playlists integration, multiple codec support,...), or network support (streaming audio,...) would be major-version bumpers.
23:00
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23:10:49	gregorovius	what do you recommend for bidirectional sync between an ipod and my computer? rsync? unison?
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